a single if I was to build a single family dwelling in that property so take the other side off if I was to just build a single family in that dwelling we we wouldn't have any problem with what we're saying today I guess I'm just a little bit confused on obtaining a permit um for a two family and saying that my plot plan is insufficient that we don't know where the boundaries are that we don't know that the that the boundaries have not changed since it's changed hands a couple of times since 2005 which I completely agree with you that would sort of be null in void at this point that that this the the piece of property that I bought if I was just to obtain the permit for my garage nobody would be asking me if those four points that were saying it's 160 in the front 100 or 200 in the back and whatever the measurements are that wouldn't be a problem you kind of understand what I'm saying I I just don't know I can get a survey of the property again and I I don't have a problem with that um I'm just wondering if I said you know what I don't want to do a two a family I'll just make it a single family I I think what Roger said to you earlier about checking with your attorney who who guided you in purchasing this property and assured you that this was a vested grandfathered building lot that is the proof that we we would need would that be from the registry of deeds well but hold on a second you're back to the building Spector the building inspector is the Frontline zoning officer in all towns yep the building inspector issues you a building perit for a single family residence you're golden you don't need the zoning board at all okay so it sounded like he said he was going to Grant it to you and then he saw the upstairs and said no but that's his call okay that that was my question I was just wondering if if I'm I'm getting a little worried now that you're saying that that lot is not a a lot that you can build on if you take the two a two family out of it so I'm glad to come back and I appreciate you guys time I really do and I'm at the mercy of you I'm not I don't expect to get a two family I I really don't I was under the assumption that two family and one family are the same this is why I'm here I'm not arguing with anybody I just want to make sure that you're not questioning the lot itself that's all that's all I'm saying we would only be questioning it if what you wanted to do required a special permit okay as as Roger just said if you decide you want to go for a single family and you take it to the building inspector and the building inspector says that's it here's your building permit you don't come to us at all you only come to us if what you require y requires a special permit and we require more proof than we have been given tonight that this is a grandfathered vested lot okay so that I I guess I guess that was my that was my question it so it's a vested lot for a single family we don't we don't know that at this point okay all right all right that was that's that was you just clarified it that was all that's all I wanted to ask is I was just trying to clarify that that's all so I we don't have prejudice against it we just don't know it yeah no that's okay that that was my question now you're getting me worried like did I just buy a piece of property that I can't even build anything on I understand that you can turn me um but I would definitely like to try to build a two family on it um and you know I hope it goes through um so if I could have another meeting I would really appreciate it and um if you guys could just tell me one more time exactly what you want me to get at the next meeting I will try to get it Roger I would suggest either your lawyer attend the meeting or to give you a written memo memo of law addressing the issue of whether the grandfathered nature of that lot extends to allow you to build under the two family dimensions of our bylaw yeah so if I could be completely honest because that's what I am I read the bylaws this lot does not conform to the bylaws right now no yeah and I understand that so this lot does not it it at all it doesn't you know I think it was 220 feet of front in I can't remember all of them it's not in front of me but it has 20 20,000 additional square feet it does not it does not at all con form for a two family and weightly so would I need to apply or or or she's saying you need 25% of your of your property to be low income for them to consider going into a two family no no that's just one option okay okay there are that's not our only option sorry this is my lawyer otherwise known as my wife no and but I don't I don't W to um I don't want to we're requiring more documentation but that's but even if we got that documentation I want to be very honest with you too that's not a guarantee Y and I understand that without the community housing bylaw um advantages shall we say that we would Grant a special permit for a market rate to family because you are deficient even if it's even if it would be um vested grandfathered for a a building lot as a single family it requires more for a multif family or a two family and that's something we'd have to see and discuss y so I knew that coming into this I already I already like when you sent me the bylaws which I read like a thousand times and only remember half of it I was like oh geez I don't meet any of these criteria um so what I expected was to come to this meeting and basically have this happen which I think I got a little off course thinking that you guys were saying that this isn't a building lot at all um but for a two family as it stands I understand that it definitely does not meet the bylaws of wle as it stands right now I understand that so would I appeal that I'm just wondering what the next step is ju just moving forward would I appeal this and then go forward or or or how do we move forward well we haven't taken a vote we haven't denied you so there's no appeal unless there's a denial are you asking us to vote tonight if we can if we if you want us to we can vote I guess that's depends on how you feel I I I'm gonna vote against it I'm telling you right now no that's fine I just want you to ask them what would make them consider approving us okay so my wife says what would make you guys consider approving this property with the proper documentation is there even yeah an option or is this not knowing that we're below a a before below okay if pesnik ad said grandfathered for a two family structure or two or multif family structure it did not certainly include a single family okay and your lawyer determined that was truthful and he came and you came forward with the evidence of that truthfulness that would probably sway us so it did not did it the it was not listed as a two family it was listed as a building lot that's it then the grandfather aspect is really a a um I would say grandfather building lot not to Family I'm asking you guys I'm telling you the grandfather aspect then is an apparation it's a ghost it doesn't it's not going to help at all so then but just we're back to where you are with a better plan and we could probably look at the better plan and probably deny it again because it's short so um I don't know what more I can say so there's no cons what I'm trying to understand is there's because we we are short UNF Frontage you really won't even if we go through all these hoops you won't consider approving us it's difficult it's difficult to do that because it creates a precedent that the town bylaws deliberately wrote to avoid yeah okay no there is but there is the possibility that you could you know you wouldn't have to conform to those dimensional requirements if as the planning board's bylaw has said 20 5% of the units are affordable by the state guidelines it's a two family up there so that means one of them would have to be yeah so that that is that's that's you know a serious option I I don't think he's too interested in it because he hasn't seemed to be asking no I'd be to be honest with you I was stuck on the the building lot part um not the two family I was stuck on the building I am I am more than happy the reason built this it's that people move in I am more than to conform to Section 8 or whatever you guys are talking about I I I mean that's the whole reason um I'll ask a question of Judy the planning board wouldn't he need a brand new application this application doesn't talk about affordability so how could he possibly be approved on this application well I think that's pretty much up to you but if I I don't know if you've seen the wording of the bylaw but it requires that at least 25% conform to the definition of subsidized housing inventory right and this would not be fair would not be fair to the neighbors who signed off on this already to then say and by the way we switched it at the meeting and you didn't have notice and I think that's honestly think that's true is there any neighbors is there any Neighbors at the meeting like to talk need to speak one at a time on a zoom and they overlap a lot s i I would assume that the new application would have to indicate or that you would need to see an application that that conforms to this bylaw which is a commitment to do that yeah yeah I would I would agree I think we need he needs a brand new application if he's going to pursue the option would the application that was turned down and this just a question is the application that was turned down uh for the two family uh dwelling and sent to zoning is would that be a different application or the same the same form it's the same form but we're not going to turn this down we're gonna ask you if you are willing to withdraw it and then that protects you because then you don't have a denial against you yeah so do you want to withdraw I'm here to ask questions I'm at the mercy of you guys and I I understand that here's something for you and your wife to think about you can take a minute or two if you want do you want to withdraw this application and then come back a new when you're ready with the afford appli withdraw without withdraw without prejudice exactly right they're going to deny us yes that would be the best bet Mr withdraw um can I ask one question before I do yeah of course um I don't know if all the abutters are on the meeting I'm not sure no they're not no no okay would that uh make a difference if all the abutters were on the meeting saying not really no because it's legal notice it gets published in the newspaper too that has to have all that okay um so I guess the smart thing to do would be to I think what were you asking that because every single one of our abutters signed yeah signed off and said they were okay with us doing a two family is that what you were asking that that's my question I I I'm so so what we had we went around to every single neighbor and told them what our hopes were to do with this and talk to them and signed it and I believe that he submitted that so you have every single signature of our neighbors saying it's okay to put a two family there so that's not the same as being a two family one of them being no no no but what what I'm saying is basically what I heard is you guys will not approve us for a two family because we don't have the proper we don't have the proper front edge so even with all of that would you still deny us if it were affordable no no no no I know we would have to go back I'm if we kept it just at market value and did not go to Affordable you guys would look at this and say it's too small you're under all the requirements and you would deny it even if all all of our abutters are saying a okay that's correct because you're a butter I'm sure you're lovely people and I I don't say that lightly it's it's not personal it's what the bylaws say Y and and Roger has already told you that he would vote against it I am not persuaded given that the bylaw is very strict with that but there is this option I don't you know Bob is our other member and I I don't Bob is not comfortable with the plan that he's seen but I don't want to speak for you Bob with I mean I I I'm not comfortable with the plan I don't I also aren't there risks if either the town meeting does not approve the planning board's um are indeed or the Attorney General rejects it yes and that was my point that these applicants need to understand that this is a this is conditional um there are risk there are risks even pursuing that just want yeah risk pursuing if you affordable option because it has not been approved by town meeting okay and it has not been signed off on by the Attorney General yep so I mean you can if you wanted to be 100% safe on that you can wait until those two things happen and then you require a special permit but the dimensional requirements that you don't meet now can be waved okay yep all right so I guess um we would like to withdraw yeah right withdraw withdraw so withdrawal and then come back so I think what we'll do is we will wait until that town meeting and the attorney general and then in that event we will speak to the lawyer and oh wait all right I'm being I'm confused for one second so withdrawal if I withrawal now so say I say we're not doing the affordable housing which I'm we can move forward with our single family as long as you go to the building inspector they don't need to be involved and then if in the event they approve this town meeting then in the town meeting they approve it then we can go back so can I reapply all right well let me ask one more question is if because I did read the bylaws and I don't remember everything but say I get the permit for the single family which I will get and then I go back to you guys to try to obtain a a two family the bylaws right now say and correct me if I'm wrong that if I get a certificate of occupancy for a single family dwelling the way the bylaws and I could be wrong but they say I have to wait 10 years to change that use is that what age are you looking at I'm not looking at any page I'm going my memory ask ask Bob he knows I wasn't good in school um but yeah what I was reading is if you already have a dwelling that so say I get a CEO for whatever I'm building over there he talking about converted dwellings 171 hyphen 21 point Thank you thank you yes so I would have to wait the 10 years bottom of page 7 uh 37 so now we're getting into a little confusing area I'm not so sure I want to give advice this and layered in with what the affordable bylaw says which I haven't I read once but like you I haven't memorized it and so you may want to consult with your lawyer on those on these somewhat esoteric points yeah I just want to make sure that if I turn it down and I go for a single family which I will get and then I do that and then when I come back to you guys and say oh I I you know even under the affordable housing uh you say oh well you have your certific occupancy and you cannot you have to wait 10 years so you better you better check it out some cases are easy and some cases are more difficult this this is morphing into a more difficult case so you got to have some solid legal advice in your corner yep no I'm just asking question that's all I just don't want to back myself in the corner that's all that's what I'm asking that's a that is a good question that you asked okay thank you so you are officially withdrawing your application without prejudice is that correct yes okay okay okay thank you Deborah do we still need that in writing we we have haven't we done email or something are Zoom meetings yes if you could put that an email and send it to me or to Mary that would be great send it to us both yes okay okay Mr Green good luck all right thank you very much I appreciate it thank you thank you good luck with the project okay so we have the Z the zoning board has some um organizational business yes let me take the lead on this if I could so I wanted to um uh congratulate Deborah on her fantastic service this past year as acting chair so much so that and I've talked to her I want to nominate her to be the permanent chair um and so I think she's is willing to accept that and and we did check with um with Brian before he left the administrator's post and he said the way to do it is this exact way with a vote of the board with a vote actually with a vote of the permanent member three members correct Bob if you want to second that it's not too late to change your mind Bob if you would like the I responded to your email yes yes you did very succinctly um I second the nomination of Deborah's chair okay so all in favor of me and ch's chair for now okay so now I would like to make a motion to have Roger become the vice chair because of his indispensable knowledge and wisdom that we saw on evidence tonight um okay okay all in favor all right this zba has been reorganized cool very cool I don't believe Mary do we have anything for next month we do uh I will be sending you an ad for it the um I just picked it up from town offices today for the revisiting of the Dory me uh ah yes okay 27 Masterson Road yes they thought they didn't need the special permit for a two family there after all but then the building inspector some things got at some point he he didn't understand exactly what their plans were when in in the beginning so he said well you should have continued to they were someone who with Drew as I believe and because they thought they were all set with the building inspector it turns out no he they need to finish up with zba on this question okay so that'll be uh for uh first Thursday in March I mean in April April yeah when is that so that would be the 4th of April okay is there anything else that we need to discuss Deborah I just would say that you know once I get into um Spring Track the problem is the weather yes and our our meets are on Mondays which is really good for me in so many ways but um the weather this past 2024 I can't predict so my availability might and if Fred or Deb or um Kristen can yes yeah I thought we'd see Kristen tonight she did say that she was available so I think that is going to be really important for all for the alternates um to to to be what are we talking about here the Bob because of Bob's track um his coaching that sometimes the weather gets the weather is further exacerbated by the fact that um there are so few bus drivers now that can't just automatically change to the next playable date because that school may not be able to get a bus um and that's happened time and time and time again and you're saying you're normally scheduled to do that on Thursdays on Mondays on Mondays and that should be fine for Thursday meetings but I just wanted Deborah as chair to understand that sometimes I got no control it just it happens okay so we would need back up from the other two members get paid to do that yeah sorry no we get that we get it I get it B um okay so um we have a the recording didn't start until later so I again I am very sorry about that I'm so used to working with zoom where I would never record in fact it's a a a duty not to record that it doesn't come naturally to me so I I I'm going to ask for our next meetings that somebody you know yell to me I'll put it I'll put a sticky up there again but I I do apologize for that that's on me I guess I think you relied on me doing it and I forgot about it that's okay I mean I'm forgetting so it's just it's so ingrained on me not to record because of confidentiality that I I just don't do it after we're done with the recording the meeia I have a procedural question I like to when we're done we have any minutes to review any minutes not right now okay all right okay did you want to ask your question Fred or I wait till you're done with the recording okay I will