order I'd like to ask all uh phones and beepers if you have any to please silence them good evening this boort is comprised of seven members four members of the board shall constitute a quorum and the affirmative vote of four members shall be necessary for the adoption of any motion if only four members of the board are present an applicant May request and be entitled to a continuance to the next regularly scheduled meeting of the board if a matter is continued due to a lack of Quorum the chair person or Secretary of the board May set a special meeting to consider such matter in the event that four votes are not obtained an applicant May except in the case of a comprehensive plan Amendment May request a continuance to allow the application to proceed to the city commission without recommendation pursuant to resolution number 2012-18 the City of Coral Gables has returned to traditional in-person meetings however the Planning and Zoning Board has established the ability for the public to provide comments virtually for those members of the public who are appearing on zoom and wish to testify you must be visible to the court reporter to be sworn in otherwise if you speak without being sworn in your comments may not have evidentiary value lobbyist registration and disclosure any person who asks acts as a lobbyist must register with the city clerk as required pursuant to city code as chair I now officially call the city of C Gables planning zoning board meeting of February 20th 2024 to order the time is 6:02 Jill if you please call the role Robert bayar here Julio Gabriel here zalinski here Mr Paro asked to be excused he out of town Salman president chip Withers also asked to be excused is out of town correct AIS here notice regarding expar Communications please be advised that this board is a quazi Judicial board which requires board members to disclose all expart communication and site visits an expart communication is defined as any contact communication conversation correspondence memorandum or other written or verbal communication that takes place outside a public hearing between a member of the public and a member of a quazi Judicial board regarding matters to be heard by the board if anyone made any contact with a board member regarding an issue before the board the board member must State on the record the existence of the expart communication and the party who originated the communication also if a board member conducted a site visit specifically related to the case before the board the board member must also disclose such visit in either case the board member must State on the record whether the expart communication and our site visit will affect the board member's ability to impartially consider the evidence to be presented regarding the matter the board member should also state that his or her decision will be B based on substantial competent evidence and testimony presented on the record today does any member of the board have such a communication on our site visit to disclose at this time no no no um I did receive an email from an individual and I went ahead and forwarded that email to uh City staff and the council for the record um swearing in everyone who speaks this evening must complete the roster on the podium we ask that you print clearly so the official records of your name and address will be correct now with the exception of attorneys all persons physic all persons physically in the city commission Chambers who will speak on agenda items before us this evening please rise to be sworn in anybody else going to be speaking on any agenda items tonight besides attorneys no raise your hand please thank you zoom platform participants I will ask any person wishing to speak on tonight's agenda item to please open your chat and send a direct message to Jill Menendez stating you would like to speak before the board and include your full name Jill will call you when it's your turn I ask you to be concise for the interested time phone platform participants after Zoom platform participants are done I will ask phone phone platform participants to comment on tonight's agenda item I also ask to be concise for the interest of time first is the approval of the minutes of January 10th 2024 has everybody had a chance to take a look at those yes is there a motion who you made a motion I'll second we have a second any comments no call the rooll please here yes zalinski here U that's yes I'm sorry you were following Julio Javier Salan C Robert bear here yes abis instead yes thank you to all those involved procedure that we will use for tonight identification of agenda item first by Mr caller presentation by applicant or agent then presentation by staff I'll go ahead and open public comment first in chamber then Zoom platform and then phone line platform afterwards I'll go ahead and close the public comment we'll have board discussion and a motion discussion and second of motion if necessary we'll have board's final comments and a vote Mr caller we have the first agenda item and I think Mr bear will be will excuse himself for that agenda item yes um I will recuse myself but we may not have to recuse myself I think the attorney is going to say something on this matter well if if he's seeking a motion to defer you ought not to be present for that motion so this would be the this for for those items this would be the time where you should remove yourself okay then I'm will I'm will step outside thank you sir please let the record reflect that Robert beor has excuse recused himself or excuse himself and is uh P outside Mr caller would you like to read the first you Pro for a motion to defer then we don't need to read the titles in okay hopefully I can make this simple uh good evening Mr chair board members George havar with offices at 333 Southeast 2 Avenue I'm here on behalf of the applicant I have my client um here with me as well um we obviously uh this is a very unique and special project in the Southern portion of your downtown uh since June of last year we've been working intimately with the single family homeowners that are directly east of us and uh we've been able to have a lot of positive discussions I think this is a project that merits a full board uh because of the L use Amendment request so with that I would uh kindly ask for this uh item to be deferred it gives us a little bit more time to speak with some more residents and also uh have an opportunity to get input uh from the full board since I think one of these items requires at least four votes to move forward right Mr caller question for you do we need to take a vote on this or is it an automatic if they requested because of the we would take a vote on it I is there are there any objectors in the present okay so yes uh we do need to take a formal vote on deferral this would be deferral of item E1 that's 24- 6967 item E2 24 - 6968 Mr call if I may I'm sorry this is if I may this is a vote by the board and understand I just want to appear on the record because Mr caller mentioned if there are any objectors I am an objector who was seeking a deferral as well so I just want to be noted on the record as as being present my name is Edward martos I'm here on behalf of tffc the property owner to the south at 129 ceva Avenue thank and in this case because the the rules provide that the applicant is entitled to a deferral it's not that the objectors could object to a deferral there are circumstances where objectors might be able to object to a deferral but in this case the rules provide that when there's only four members the Afghan is entitled to a deferral to the next meeting understood Jill call a rooll please these are on both items E1 E2 and E3 to defer to defer wait a minute let's get a date for the next meeting dat certain to the next meeting so you don't have to advertise to March 13th I believe is the next meeting if I'm not mistaken that is correct so there will be no further advertising unless the department intends to advertise anyway so but we're announcing the date now what was it March 13 March 13 2024 right at our normal time 6: p.m. thank you it's at in the bottom of the agenda States the next uh board meeting date very good thank you call the r pleas need a motion there is a motion isn't there have we had a motion no we haven't had a motion oh we haven't had a motion I would like to make a motion that we accept the applicant's request for defer and defer this item to uh March 13th at 6 p.m. um and that's it I second Sue went ahead and second call the RO please Julio Gabrielle yes Kinski yes faio Salman yes abste yes thank you very much we look forward to coming back to in March and presenting our project thank you um would would you ask Robert to come back in please thank you or not sure for the thank you so much so everybody that is in Chambers for item E1 E2 and E3 just want to let everybody know that it has been deferred to March 13th um just want to make sure Robert comes in before we read the next item so he can vote on it for the [Music] see thank you uh please let the record reflect that Robert bear is back in Chambers um Mr caller if you please read E4 item E4 an ordinance of the city commission providing for a text Amendment to the city of Carl Gable's official zoning code creating section 5- 314 windows and hurricane shutters to regulate the closure of window and hurricane shutters and amending the city code chapter 1 General Provisions section 1-7 entitled penalties to provide a penalty for the closure of window and hurricane shutters outside of the hurricane season providing severability Clause repeal or provision codification providing an effective date item E4 public hearing so Jenifer Garcia city planner um this was approved at first reading um earlier in January by the city commission it's being sponsored by a commissioner does Jennifer need to State an address or is she okay no she's I'm city planner okay yeah she sworn in too yes um so the intent of this is to limit the time of the year that you can put on window shutters or any kind of closure to your windows to only occur during the hurricane season which is between June 1st and November 30th um if there is a time during outside of that window that someone has enclosures on their window they be issued a 30day warning by code enforcement um and hopefully not incur too many fines after that 30-day warning um so if you go to page two of your staff report those are the three sentences that we're adding to Article Five um in regards to window hurricane shutters okay any questions are you s and this is for all kinds of U enclosures like clear plastic uh metal yes everything right I was a little confused when I first read your staff report because it said properties with closed windows or hurricane shutters and I was a little worried about that language because everyone closes their windows but you're talking about the covering over the windows closure the window okay I just wanted to make sure it does clarify that in the actual item title so is this all around the house we're talking about you can't have any enclosures yes all around the house correct okay I would have you know I I have some comments about that um I used to before I had uh hurricane impact glass windows I used to have uh accordion on my French doors all all across the back of my house and I would go on vacation and I would close them and lock them for security because of a Robert came I mean that's added protection for me it didn't you couldn't see them from the front or the sides they were in the back and I've got you know a a 16t hedge in the back even my back door neighbors couldn't see them so I have no issue as long as they can't be seen from the street I have no issue with them being around the house it's just added protection from from theft and from what I hear from next door there's a lot of theft going on so if I'm if I'm one of those people that does doesn't have impact Windows has accordion shutters I want as much protection as possible if I'm on vacation let me close right so the intent of this is for as's reasons maybe we should clarify that and talk with the sponsoring commissioner if that's more the concern is just whatever it's seeing from the street so the back maybe will be okay but we can talk to him about that um what what I'd like to do is just find out if we have anybody open it up for public comment and because there may not be that many people uh Jill we have anybody here for public comen in Chambers no anybody on Zoom no anybody on the phone platform no okay at this time I'd like to go ahead and close it for public comment so please continue my just my point if if the board feels that there's a concern for security and you want to to incorporate a recommendation to the to the commission that's obviously one of your roles as a Planning and Zoning Board member understood okay and that's one thing that I would recommend um is just added protection yes this is a very special day I you and I are going to agree on something oh my God what day is this let's write this down you know I agree with you 100% if it's not visible from the street and you don't have impact windows I don't see why not my we were we were on vacation and I have impact windows and the police came because my neighbor called they were trying to break in through my house through the back so if if we luckily we had impact glass and also they was not able to get in they tried to break the glass but they never got in but I think you're absolutely right if you have a condition where you don't have hurricane you know windows and door you should be able to allow ason is not visible from the street let let me ask you a question both of you what happens in a case where a neighbor leaves up their shutters on the side of the house or in an AA where it's very visible from a neighbor and it the neighbor has an issue with it how do you treat that how would you how would you treat that situation I understand for security and I'm all for it but what happens not somebody that works on it when they leave town and they want to have security but somebody says it's not visible from the street but yet my neighbor to my left my neighbor behind and so forth can see that shutter look when I used to go on vacation I used to notify the you know the police department to have more patrols control you know patrols around the area maybe if if that's a way that if you're going to go and you want to put the the the shutters up or or the accordance whatever it is if you notify I I don't know but to give the flexibility the ability to the homeowner to to provide that extra protection yeah and and and and like Robert said as long as it's not visible for from the street because it sounds to me like this is an overall aesthetic issue not a neighbor to neighbor issue it's like when you're driving down the street what do you see and I believe that as long as it's not seen from the street which means in the back and the sides is perfectly okay with me I mean I I haven't seen really any ugly ugly shutters uh I mean there are people in my neighborhood that have the clear the clear glass and they keep the clear plastic whatever it is and they keep it up all year it's not offensive at all but you do see if if you see it from your neighbors that means you see it from the street no no they keep it on the sides but do you see it from the street when you're driving by no okay and one thing is to you know to put I'm use a radical example plywood you know that's that's not but if you do have the accordion you know uh and plus if if it's if it's uh Miami Dade County approved shutter you can't can't put ply plywood up because that's not an approved form of shutter in Miami dat County it has to be an approved shutter system so that means whether it be the aluminum panels whether it be the clear plastic you know to me it's not offensive especially if it's not seen from the street to me the the the key there would be not visible from the street right okay I mean I don't know how the other board members have here I'm in complete agreement with my uh board partner Sue over here wow and as long as the key word not visible from the unanimous and your agreement with this s the board members what never not yet Julio yes you do jul don't put that on the record please any comments Julio no I mean I I guess it sounds like I'm the only one that has a calm about it and it's I don't I agree with when you go on vacation but I have seen instances where people leave certain side windows that may not use all the time with shutters and those shutters rust um and neighbors see that so I I just don't know how to deal with that because then you you you can't go to them and say can you take it down code enforcement can't go there and say can you take it down because they'll say well it's not visible from the street although my neighborhood to myself South sees it and my back neighbor sees it do you think that's pretty do you think that's typical or oneoff no I I don't think it's very typical at all but I think you either deal with the situation or you don't so or unless you put some kind of language that if it's you know rusting or the appearance or like a building or or a home that's not painted well um something like that okay but I I'd hate to penalize the majority for the oneoff I actually find this to be from a a resident point of view particularly heinous on Condominiums where I see them on the balcony windows closed in can can we speak into the mic because the I I I particularly don't like it when I see it on Condominiums and this law would this ordinance would uh would address that in Condominiums correct because we're talking about any windows and as long as they're visible from the street they can't have outside of the period of emergency their shutters up which is fine with me I think that's great uh but only for the ones that are visible from the street but but by putting visible from the street you're limiting to practically single family because the the condominium you will see it from the street yeah you can you will see it so you can't do it there you can't do it there either but if we said if you if you put a recommendation to commission that you know you are only allowed to do it if it's not visible from the street you're going to limit to single family and practically the side and the backyards only so right yeah so I guess we're saying the same thing yeah the Kindom hard to agree with me and I'm going to say it's okay no I I you're want to agree with me so I think we both or the through and I agree that if it's not visible in the case that you mentioned the the Condominiums you can't have it because they're going to be visible from the street automatically they're they don't qualify to do it right no they would be enforced upon yes we agree okay can can we add some type of language or some or some kind of recommendation to it the same as a home that has the paint peeling or the roof that's bad that code enforcement goes there whether it's visible or not that can tell them you got to clean it and so forth or you got to paint it or you got to do something to those shutters even if they're in the back and this let me ask one question to our City attorney can we can we say that if you if the homeowner the property owner gets you know I don't know I mean notifies the city the police department or something that will create a a an exception for them to do it something that is not because yeah you could you could have a year round and not get rid of it even though it's in the back and I understand I'm I'm thinking about your neighbor I I used to have my neighbors um they were probably in the 80s and he kept the windows front next you know visible from my house at all the time um I would help him put him up I will try to help him take him down but sometimes no Robert leave him there and it didn't bother me but I could see where it was constantly you know uh up up I just think there's a lot of two-story homes next to a one-story home throughout our city and when people have their rooms or bedrooms or whatever it is on the second floor and they're looking at a property or a home that's a next door neighbor that is on a first story that is constantly shuttered and it may not be the I'm not talking about when they leave I'm talking about one window for some reason that's a garage window so it's not a window that they use it's not a window they go to and so they left up the shutters and now that shutter starts rusting that to me is an issue because now you can't go to them and say you know your neighbor behind is complained you got to take down the shutter the way it's being presented that neighbor can say well I'm complying with the code well maybe there is some language we can insert just regarding unsightliness or the condition of the the condition of the material that that would be my only thing um yeah we can insert the words properly maintained yeah or or leave it up to staff to add whatever language they deem NE would be correct same as with pair of a property a house a roof so it coincides in other words from the street you can't do it if it's visible understood but if it's in the back and and there's a complaint from a neighbor that says you know this person has had theirs up for the last 10 years I've been seeing the shutter and it's resting and it's dripping over the wall and so forth just there should be a remedy there should be something not well I like properly maintained because for example if some of those screws come out and it could be a perfect panel but the screws come out and they're flapping in the wind yes properly maintained and in good order or install properly maintained working order yeah I'd be good with that okay uh would you like anybody like to make a recommendation Sue Robert was very good at the language I'm a follow your to this a special this is a special day with that Pink Bicycle on the uh uh I make a motion to uh amend or recommend amending uh this proposed ordinance um whereby um help me out here to be Li to Windows only visible I have a thought yes um provided that shutters in the rear or side uh parts of the home that cannot be viewed from the street are permitted do you want to have a time limit on it you know what I I think I put it in reverse I'd make it that they that you can't these things can't be seen from the street okay I think that should be the first thing they can't be seen from the street however uh shutters may be kept up on the sides in the rear of the house if they're properly maintained and in good working order in good working order and not visible from the street well we said that at the beginning they cannot be visible from the street now do you put if I'm going vacation do I put a maybe 30 if the if code enforcement goes around and sees it and 30 days after notification from code enforcement yeah because there's something like that already in this language right about the 30 days okay so if if if if a neighbor complains because the shutters are up and haven't been taken down and could enforcment goes that that homeowner has 30 days if you're more than on vacation more than 30 days you know so can that be done you you already have language similar to that yeah I I saw it in here yeah uh subsection B properties with closed windows or hurricane shutters outside a hurricane season will be given a 30-day warning before any further enforcement action what what you're doing here is you're actually permitting you're creating an exception to this rule the rule is you you can have hurricane shutters during the hurricane season but after that you have to take them down you're creating an exception to allow for these shutters at other times as long as these shutters are not visible from the street is that correct and that the shutters that are are up are in good order and properly maintained that's what you're doing now somebody could keep them up 365 under that that's no but if you have a time limitation well there's a Time limitation if you get a warding you get 30 days now if you want to have a Time limitation say outside of the outside of the hurricane period you are permitted to have shutters for a maximum of 30 days as long as those shutters are not uh visible from the street and and that those shutters that are up are prop in good order and properly maintained so you have three qualifications right not visible from the street properly maintained in good order and a maximum of 30 days outside the hurricane period perfect okay so that's basically the amended motion issue too that does yeah so we have a motion I I'll second that we have a second by Robert any uh other discussion no call a roll please yes here yes yes yes AB yes the next item is E5 we we asked if there were no objectors we did we ask if there were any objectors of course there's nobody in the room I went ahead and ask for a public comment on all three platforms and then I closed it okay very good item E5 in ordinance of the city commission providing for text amendments to the city of Carl Gable's official zoning code amending article one General provision section 1-104 jurisdiction applicability amending Provisions for the citing of City facilities to include facilities for Workforce housing that are owned financed or operated by the city the county or other public governmental entity as required by the code of Miami day County Section 33-1 193.75 providing for an effective date item e 5 public hearing thank you Jennifer Garcia apping official so the the Mi county is requiring every municipality within its jurisdiction within the Mii County area to provide some kind of expedited review process for any uh Workforce housing that is owned financed or operated by the county municipality or other public government and entity so as a reaction to that staff prepared some amendments to be able to to um comply with that requirement at the state sorry at the county level so if you go to page two you can see that there's a a new sentence um embedded into our already um expedited um review process for for City facilities is part of that process okay any questions would you douche would you like to read it for the record so oh the addition yeah yeah so in um section 1-104 uh subsection c um one um the addition is it is further provided that in addition to City facilities listed in a subsection the procedures set forth herein shall also apply applications for Workforce housing as that term is defined in article um in the sorry in the Mi County for qualifying residential developments that are owned financed or operate by the County city or other public facilities sorry public city so I I could give a little bit of background on this um the city created a government facilities hearing similar to what the county has for its government facilities and provided for an expedited process the county has dictated to all the municipalities that they need to have and an expedited process in their code you've heard of State mandates like uh housing that's occurred well this is a county mandate so this is the city uh complying with the County's mandate to municipalities to provide this expedited process for this relatively narrow area is this at all tied to sb102 no it is separate and apart from that well I mean it's kind of like the same process except this goes directly to the commission the sp sp 102 goes directly to the city manager right well this requires a public hearing where as um I believe that the well I don't know what's going on in the legislature this year who knows but whereas the other one is supposed to be through an administrative process but this is still a a um a public hearing process so that's the only difference really so so in the City of Coral Gables the builtmore would apply right it's a city-owned facility the youth center would apply no but it has to be um Workforce housing I I'm I'm saying if they were to if a developer came along and said City of Coral Gables I'm going to pay you $150 million billion dollar for the right to take over the buil more and make it Workforce housing okay so that five Commissioners elected officials could say sure right without without us hearing that okay they could take over the buil more if somebody waves money in their FA it they could take over the youth center they could take over any one of our public facilities right has to be the cor zoning this isn't trumping zoning or land use it is not zoned for that there's a lot of different but that says it bypasses all zoning and this is what it says procedures yeah it but not procedures but not like review process it not to go through planning zoning through two readings with the commission okay so oh but it also also would have to be owned operated or financed by the by the city right so a private developer that goes and buys the built more to have Workforce housing I I'm not saying buying I'm saying leasing I'm I'm saying a developer could say we want to lease the built more right for a billion dollars and uh I don't think that would be viewed as own Finance or operated by the city the county or other public government I'm not sure it would meet that requirement well because it's because it's essentially a private company that's operating it well that's operating not not owning it the city the city is not asking for financing it doesn't have to the city owns it does the city own the buil more yes yes okay then the buil more applies I I presume that if the city wanted to operate Workforce housing in the builtmore um they might consider it a government facility and yes they could they could go through that process but but the city doesn't even have to agree to operate it the city could abdicate operation to a developer I mean they could hire maybe an operator to do it it would be the it would be the city's facility but I suppose they might be able to hire a a private company to operate the workforce housing for on their behalf that would be true so so I'm reading this and I'm going oh my gosh I mean maybe not today but what about in 5 10 years and what if the city is broke in 10 years and a billion dollars comes waving in the faces our faces from a developer who says I want to lease that property the buil more I'm going to build um I'm going to build on that property in addition to what's already there and for Workforce housing I mean what's this doesn't prevent any of that from happening in fact it almost kind of like opens the door for that to happen they have to comply with underlying zoning and land use the underline zoning would control that you can't have residential units on that zoning it's Zone special use for your example oh okay they to change the zoning and go of zoning yeah I mean and yeah and would it the in land use and comp and all could happen before this board and we could say no or we could we're not here somebody else is here and they say sure yes and all of a sudden the built B becomes work buil Bo becomes Workforce wouldn't that happen okay if somebody wanted to do that hypothetically I'm taking your hypothetical example somebody wanted to do that could they come now and do it without any of this going through or not going through actually that's true I me if it's going to be a government facility and it's an exception to zoning but it's not an it still has to comply with the comprehensive plan so I don't know what the comprehensive plan is for the builtmore I don't know if Workforce housing would be consistent with the comprehensive plan for the builtmore but it would have to comply with the comprehensive plan but yes you're right it if it were consistent with the comprehensive plan I suppose the city that could do it of course there's all kinds of contractural and is practically it couldn't I mean it's hypothetical but look what's happening these days with everything else happening in this country in the world this could happen and then we're we're going to say yeah sure okay no no problem it's never going to happen so that's uh that's a very hypothetical I me anything's possible yeah I mean I I made you know I think the city is trying to come in compliance with with the County's requirements let might not be what you would recommend it's not that the city is is the one that's um originating this this is originating by the county is exercising its home rule Authority and and provide that all the cities provide this Workforce housing basically expeditor review still has to go to public hearing though let me ask you something if if why doesn't the City of Coral Gables reject this what do we lose well I I don't know what the what the ramifications would be uh if we don't comply with the the County's requirements I'm sure there's some I mean it's penalties or or something that that will be affect the city of corg I I mean I could see um maybe that you know saying yes provide Ed that all underlying zoning are consistent that you know the process I mean it says no but I don't see it in in this case where it would be I don't see your what you're saying being valid here because there are so many check and balances to do this by the city that you know I think there's a difference though between the what the state is doing for Workforce housing basically they're saying you got to do it they're not even giving the um uh the governing body some discretion on whether something should happen or not happen this is just providing a process it's still ultimately the authority of the city commission and whether they're going to approve this or not not so that's really a big difference ultimately it's the governing body that's going to make a decision whether they're going to approve this government facility or not so that's really the difference whereas in the case of the state some private individual wants to build a 14 story building next to single family homes um if it's within a mile of the uh uh the height is within a mile that's very different from what this is and indeed the criteria in here I believe as I recall is they look to compatibility so is is this government facility going to be compatible so I think it's a completely different and I'm not saying they're exactly the same I'm just saying that the the municipalities are being usurped by higher levels of government we are being told what to do and I think that's un we are losing our identity and our Authority and our ability to say no I couldn't agree with you more and that's what's happening at the state legislature as well they're they are usurping the local authorities decision-making process couldn't agree with anymore however at least in this case the ultimate buck stops at the city commission well I know and that worries me it does because I mean one day we're going to have a city commission that all agrees with one special interest and then we're we're done then the center will turn into but can't the city commission even if the city commission to today votes one way can't the future city commission overturn whatever is written there I'll give you an example covenants to run with the land I have always seen the city I've always seen the City of Coral Gables not allow lot splits when certain factors are in place such as a wall running through the house running through land whatever it is but I have also seen where the city over undo the Covenant to run with the land which is in the property to allow the property to be separated so why wouldn't they be able to why wouldn't the commission be able to undo or change a code Well here here's why okay so I'm a developer I make a deal with uh the five Commissioners to turn the youth center into whatever it's designated un under the current zoning code or maybe they come before us and it it changes so all of a sudden they make a lot of rooms at the youth center specifically for Workforce housing and then a new commission comes in and says we don't like that you have to undo all those rooms at the youth center then want want uh a law come about saying well you can't undo that thing because those people already invested the money in building rooms into the youth center I'm telling you this is the this is the head of the snake camel and the nose of the camel I'm I'm just saying I'm just saying I do not like and I I I think we need to take this seriously I don't like the fact that we are being told what to do and our hands will forever be tied I think uh if we can somehow amend this to soften this to eliminate some of the whatever but as a whole as this sits right now this is very dangerous I don't see it so dangerous in my opinion and I'm not sure that we could tell the county We're Not Gonna accept it I I don't know if really we have I mean not us the City commissioners at the end was going to approve this or not because we could recommend something to them and they're going I don't know if they have for lack of a better word the authority to say sorry County we're not going to accept this but look at sp sp 102 they passed this law there were enough municipalities that said uh-uh and now they changed parts of it don't I know they I they no I know they didn't change don't they didn't change a lot but they started to chip away at it and according to our our state senator she said she's going to continue the process of chipping away at it she's the one that introduced it she should never have introduced it in my opinion and now she's hearing enough from municipalities where she's going to start changing it and watering it down so I'm just saying can we say forget it County we're not we're not going to no it we probably can't do that but we can certainly make recommendations saying you have to carve us out in these circumstances look if we say yes we say yes and we can never go back if this board says let's make some carve outs to this let's be smart about this for the future let's make some carve outs in this and I don't think we should make them right now I think we should really study this and find out how we can soften let me ask well I have a thought actually so to be a little creative wait what is the consensus of the city Commission on this I me I me just CU have they seen it I don't think it's been on I don't think it's been on their agenda no it it passed for first reading January how did it pass un unanimous you know what then maybe they didn't take the time to read this because just read it well one thought I have is when trean is a government facility it's an exception to Zone but you have to comply with the um with the uh comprehensive plan you can't accept from the comprehensive plan so we could say uh require that not withstanding that Workforce housing has to meet both zoning and the comprehensive plan as an exception so that would mean that we're going to treat the workforce housing uh as uh from other facilities by um either the county we're still providing the expedited process but if it's a County facility or other public enti entity they have to require they have to comply with both zoning and the comprehensive plant so that weakens it a little bit no weakens it a lot I mean then at that point there's Limited properties owned by the city I mean I one that comes to mind is a fire station on US1 right that probably meets the comprehensive plan even though it's a it's a city a city uh owned facility but it rules out the billm rules out the youth center um I don't know how many other I mean the police station but this but my my suggestion is with regard to other facilities other than the city's own facility that they have to comply with the zoning code and the comprehensive plan they have to everybody's got to comply with the comprehensive plan there's an exception for zoning but one way to weaken this is to require that other facilities not Coral Gable's facilities but other facilities have to meet the zoning code but what other facilities City own right let's say a um uh the county finds a vacant piece of property in in Carl Gables and they want to build a Workforce housing Workforce housing let's say the Zoning for that area is single family residential so that this County couldn't do that because we're we're requiring that you can't build uh Workforce housing in single family residential I guess you could have single family Workforce housing couldn't you I mean you got the courthouse the county owns the courthouse that's the prime example it's not us it's them they can build whatever they want there right no that's privately owned it's not public it's leased to priv oh it's leased priv owned how does it how does it work with the school district well it would be considered a public oh how does the school district work yeah in other words between cities and there some there's some lack of clarity on whose authority controls on the on the school school board controls their own property period end of story and it's happening unless they transfer the property to the county to make this property then viable for development by the county as a government agency it would have to be the school board submitting for for probably well I think we've had issues with schools in in Carl Gables and requirements that we ask them to meet so I've done a lot of schools I can tell you the school knows all their schools and they come not the county it's the school and they come even the bard of AR they come as a courtesy they don't even have to they don't have to they're they're completely autonomous they have their own building department they can do whatever they want on any property we should be like that uh Jennifer I've got a question for you is there any other Municipality of the 34 for municipalities that is Bing at this or also making carve outs in there not to my knowledge cuz I think this was adopted a couple of years ago yeah we're a little late yeah okay so no other municipality has not to our knowledge change this we're sure not to my knowledge there may be some that we are not familiar with I have a question for the chair uh to Jill um when it says financing is there a percentage of financing that triggers us or is it that to be 100% finy that's an interesting issue MH it's a very interesting issue because uh I've done um low-income housing and elderly low-income housing or the financing is through a government agency and um and they would qualify that for an expedited review but we'd still have to meet zoning and comprehensive land that's still not that's still on the table that's never going to go away right so so it's interesting because you can have a private developer who has a portion of government financing as part of the package because a lot of times bigger developers they have a package of financing some from private investors some from Banks and maybe a governmental portion if there's if there's a Workforce housing included and you see that up north a lot where you have multiple agencies working together with private in a public private venture to develop a project those projects then be entitled to uh to an expedited review I we can verify again what the county code says exactly but I don't there ever be in any kind of percentage but jaier in your case isn't that a private developer who's doing those developments yeah but it's uh it's government financing and financing is one of the triggers that's I understand it it's not just government agencies it could be government financing yeah you know what I have to tell you there's so much in here that we don't know about I feel very uncomfortable moving forward with any kind of vote on this we don't know enough about this I mean it's it's it seems like well everybody else is doing it why don't we just do it but I'm telling you we have a lot of valuable property here we have a lot of we have to protect our city and I just don't feel that well actually before we proceed let me ask Jill Jill do we have anybody uh in Chambers that wishes to speak on this no anybody on Zoom no anybody in the phone platform no okay so let me just close it for a public comment and then let's proceed okay okay but I just feel uncomfortable and even moving forward with any part of this and I'm not an expert on you know like some of you up here on the ins and outs but all I can tell you from a just a common person's reading of this this doesn't sound good I mean there there's so many loopholes and so many things we don't know about and I just don't want to give away the ba baby you know I um I think the the us as a society are all moving towards making it easy to get Workforce housing in our communities and I think it's we staying behind the the the times if we don't do it uh the county is pushing us to do it uh I understand all the were withth all but if we worried about what can happen we'll never get anything done I would like to move to approve this as it is as it is or with the recommendations for zoning and so forth that Craig went ahead well it wasn't my recommendation it was one of the members was saying is there anything we can do to soften it the way this is worded um government facilities and Coral Gables it's specifically drafted that it is an exception to zoning it is not exception to the comprehensive plan this addition could be clarified to say with respect to Workforce housing requires compliance still goes through the expeditor process but is required to meet both zoning and the comprehensive plan that was my suggestion if you wanted to soften it I will amend it in an effort to to try to you know follow some of those concerns I will feel more comfortable if I was to support this with those Provisions so Robert would you second Julio with the amendment I will second so we have a motion with the amendment and a second any discussion no call the RO please a Salman no zinski no Julio Gabriel yes Robert Bear yes yes abs and stuff yes okay it goes forward then without a recommendation through the chair before we adjourn I have a quick question for our esteemed planning director um when notices go out for items to come before this board specifically projects and whatnot uh when do they go out timing wise with regards to the actual meeting isn't it two weeks before 13 days 13 days close to two weeks okay um is there any way or any reason why we as members of the board don't get a notification um I guess cu the zoning Cod does require it okay unless you're within a thousand there's no there's no other there's no staff objection to us being notified right no okay because it's a small town it's a very small town and we could accidentally and I actually averted a situation like that with regards to today's issue uh where somebody came up to me started talking to me about it and I go wait a minute is this coming before this board and he goes no here to me wait stop right there I can't I I'm not say well we've only talked about what's in the public record I said okay fine that's it don't say anything more I want to hear your opinion and we stop it right there but that way we could be a little bit better attuned and preserve our our um Independence and our objectivity I would think that it would be a good thing to do so be included both on any not notification for app zoning board and neighborhood meetings could they use the same uh well yeah if it's if it's an item that's going to come here there's going to be a zoning chain that you normally have to put out a mailer for 1500 people make it 157 just so we know that it's coming ju my only word of caution is you're you're doing it for a very good reason you want to avoid an expart communication if exactly an inadvertent one right so you wouldn't obviously when you see the listing of the public meetings or done by the developer you don't want to go to those meetings but you want to be advised of the of where the location is so if somebody comes up to you and says you could say wait a minute I really can't talk to you about that you get it we get it the Friday before exactly and if we get it 13 days before we could possibly avoid the situation I've actually caught it more than once but in that case I've known about something coming up just because I do but uh and this particular I didn't I didn't know it was coming up I was more focused on another the project that came in before um and so I avoided those issues but this one uh CAU me my surprise and I was able to stop it but it's actually happened to me before a couple of times when I was first on this board eight years ago so I think it would be a good idea that staff consider that and I would uh I would like to make that recommendation as a board to staff to do so anybody have any objections I don't I don't have a problem with that it just so we don't get we will not get the packages no not the package just the same little notification basic no we don't want the agenda just the notice that that this is coming that tells you you know what the address is and where where it is for both the notice for the neighborhood meeting and for ping zoning notice yeah I okay do you need to have the neighborhood meeting notice no I don't think I need the neighborhood meeting sure that does happen first so they may approach you die in the process of the after the neighborhood meeting so it's what it's it's certainly going to be coming here rep plan zoning only exactly I think the neighborhood meanings I think it would be more of a problem for us if we're notified of No my only concern is that they may talk to you a res may talk to you earlier on before we even go to planning zoning exactly you would not be aware of that that will eventually in the next few months be a well I caught a couple of those too hey no I can't talk about that well that's that's outside of the cone of silence anyways no but it's um cone of silence drops upon advertising isn't it what is the cone of silence in the squirrel Gables drop what is it what what is the cone of silence drop Mr call I mean is I think it's when Maxwell Smart meets that's really well okay but there's an actual there's make a motion to adjourn no wait a minute before we finish that so we have a recommendation that Mr Javier has brought forth and I think there's consensus among the board to proceed that way yes so are you good with that I'm good okay so can we make it an official vote and say that's what we'd like to do well I don't know if we would do an official vote it's not anend you can do it as a motion if you feel need to you've given direction to staff I assume is everybody in agreement yes or no or anybody objects I think you can do it informally or you could do a motion I'll do it with informally that's fine we can deal with it okay is everybody in favor recommendation yes yes anybody against I only hear for yes iing not hear the yes from that end see nodded very loudly she nodded loudly loudly it was a loud nod so the just for the record the entire board is in agreement for that recommendation five members of the board tonight not entire board we're missing present the entire board present all right we have a motion to adjourn by Mr bear we have a second on in favor say I thank you everybody thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]