##VIDEO ID:aQz6TnR5jEQ## ready to begin okay historic preservation Commission meeting is being held on August 20th 2024 at 7:00 p.m. statement ofate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 46 will provide on February 1st 2024 of this meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranber press in Trenton Times posted on the township bulletin board and mailed to those requesting personal notice and filed with the municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours please miss sum here and volunteer hours two hours all right Miss Ryan uh here uh 2.5 Mr Guyer here two hours Mr H here six hours Miss Marlo here one hour Mr Sao here two hours and m b bini excuse me three thank you actually you can change mine to three okay and miss conam the township committee lays on is present we do have a quorum chair a lot toact offline discussion all working on um so we'll begin with um start East so I brought printop great and then when you after you handed out if you could sit down and just like say your name and address right is she supposed to do that yeah I mean we all know where you are because we know you live at nine Park Place East all right so I am tor sorry the one on the right it's reding okay so I am Tori pin and my husband and I recently purchased nine Park Place East um on a Drago's old house so we are just beginning our renovation journey and you know this is probably the first of many applications you'll see from us um so we're specifically requesting to remove one of the three chimneys on the roof and I know my husband submitted this because we want to get the actual roof Ro redone the roof is in need of just being updated and you know it's starting to show some wear and tear and we'd like to replace it before any leaks occur um and so in that discussion when we've been speaking to contractors and roers they've recommended removing the chimney now instead of doing the roof and removing it later so that's why we're sort of applying for this now and if you look towards the back I put on here you know the rationale for the chimney removal there's really two reasons one is the interior functional concerns we have with it and the second is structural concerns so the next page has a picture of our current kitchen which was last updated in 1970 per the Drago family um and is desperately in need of some updating um and one of the challenges we have with the kitchen is that chimney in there is about 5 feet wide and prevents us from doing any type of cabinets any type of countertops things of that nature um and as you can see the stove that's currently sitting in there is larger than the more contemporary stove which is not that contemporary and is actually missing a front door um so when we redo the kitchen obviously those are concerns we'd like to address uh and then the other problem with the chimney on the last page you can see that it's actually separated and is resting against the interior of the of the wall that supports the house um they're not great shots because you can only really see it from the basement looking up through the floor but you can see how the brick has pulled apart and is laying against the wall so it is not a structurally sound chimney um exterior wise it looks fine on the roof of the house but in the terms of the interior of the house it's blocking Renovations and it's a bit of a you know uncertain situation the way it's resting against the exterior um so that's why we would like to just remove the exterior chimney and seal the roof when we're having the roof redone so that's our request um thank you so much for this overview this is really helpful for us to understand sort of what you're dealing with and I'm sorry to hear about the chimney sort of falling apart is from I'm trying to see from the back of the house is the chimney still Within it's still within the walls of the house yeah if you look at this picture this the chimney we're talking about removing is the back one so it is fully interior to the house the only place you see it is up on the roof okay so my next question is have you considered just keeping the cap on the roof and replacing out the the space so you can do what you need to do in the kitchen um and just sort of you know sealing whatever is going on inside um but keeping the cap so they' visible it's too heavy because it's about 5 feet wide and has a slate top that if we remove the underneath of it it would be too heavy to be supported on the roof unless we did like some kind of like weird footer things potentially that go all the way to the foundation okay um so it's it's too heavy to remain on the roof without the full structure underneath it is what they've told us this used for the stove yes that's the only no I don't even know if we could use it because the shape the condition of the chimney I mean there's like a metal Flume inside there as well so maybe but no we haven't used it for any purpose I mean we just moved in in June so so yeah and the stove itself is fairly interesting I mean we've looked it up the best guess is it's from 1900 um so it's it's a nice stove um I don't know if cranberry would have any interest in keeping it but it's not the most practical for the kitchen um when was the house built 1860 and the last owner was Anna Drago she bought it in 1970 um and according to her son she redid the kitchen and added a bathroom and then just maintained it ever since then so the last Renovations were in 1970 to anyone's knowledge 19 I think there was a bathroom was oh 2008 they did the exterior the mud room um yes yeah does anyone have any questions I mean Jennifer I understand your concern because if you remove I mean they're symmetrically designed on the top of the house and if you remove one it's going to throw that off I I don't know whether there's any way you can the other side of the house only has the one chimney as well though so there's not yeah there's not a match to the there's no rear chimney on the other side one time yeah I mean I don't think there was because that's where the bay window is the bay window added after the house we built oh part of the original house yeah and I mean and it's a challenge too because it's like you can't see the chimneys so well from the street because there's so much um trees there's so many trees all around but all it could take is Like A Storm of the Century knock down all the trees and then everyone sees like that the chimneys are you know that there's chimney gone and I just I think my for me I've never in the years I've been on this committee we've never approved removing a chimney um have in the past we have there's been a couple that nonfunctioning CH okay front didn't go on the exterior went through the roof there f and U jimy somehow was barely supported by the second FL and even down to the so it's like a similar situation where we're structurally that's good information to know that's why I'm so glad that like we have people like yourself and Bobby here exactly is the other one in yours no so the there's three Chimneys in total right I mean the other one on this side the one none of them are actually in use none of the three none of them are functional but we do want to keep so the two in the front have nice mantel um one is completely sealed with tile and then the other one they did put a gas insert in but they didn't vent it at all so it just fumes out into the house so for practical purposes it's nonfunctional um we plan to maybe work on those eventually but there we have no plans to remove those chimneys because you know they look beautiful and we value the the historic aspect of them in the house um so I'm just not sure I'm confused about which chimney it is actually that you're taking out because the photograph says remove chimney on the right in this image which is the one which the front of the house no it's the one towards the rear maybe it was misstated in there the kitchen yes it's the one the K it's this one that you're talking about yeah the one this picture on that picture it's the one on the right because of where he's standing from the rooftop you can't see it in this picture this picture it says on the right so I'm just trying to go straight oh because this one says the right this one says the right oh are you looking is that the old one cuz I don't know oh there's an old one well I Che out some of the pictures from the previous one because that portion was approved to do the bath roof I think this is the one that I just was do and the and the chimney that is on the other side of the house is also on the front the yeah so the house the house is interesting because it technically has three front yards because it takes up that whole section of the block um and so there's two in the very front one that runs up through the front room and one that runs up through what they call the library and then there's one in the back that runs up through the kitchen um and so it's the one in the back if you're standing right in front of the house looking at it it's the rear left chimney that's the the one on Wesley Place yeah the new version that Tori just gave us doesn't have it on the right right so at least so the last so the two remaining chimneys will be towards Main Street yes the two remaining chimneys will they'll be facing Park Place Y Park Place yeah yeah it makes me sad because they're such cute chimneys but if I mean honestly if we've done this before we've approved removing chimneys and it's and we you know I have also denied removing chimneys recently during my tenure as chair so it goes both ways we did bring in a Mason too peruchi or something he's a fairly well-known Mason in the area and like you know even he was like oh no like the top of it looked fine but you can't it's so heavy we can't do anything safely to it because the interior is crumbling so in the basement the brick is Spalding and everything so we're going to have to have a lot of work done to shore up the foundation and remove the Spalding brick and all that type of stuff too so um for us it is more of that structural concern I don't know how much the wood siding can hold that whole chimney in the one that we didn't approve why didn't we approve what was that situation where we denied it was it because it was just an aesthetic thing and it wasn't structural it also a property uh on a corner on Main Street and um the chimneys were listed as a character defining element of the house so I pulled up the the property report for your property and they are not listed yeah they are mentioned but they are not listed as character defining elements but I believe in our um design guidelines that uh we do not encourage removal of chimneys I don't know how to um force you to structurally reinforce your house to hold up the chimney so that is the Dilemma so then in the design guidelines um it says specifically that the chimney shall be preserved or if two deteriorated to repair shall be replaced with construction matching the original as nearly as possible materials should size shape texture color and orientation so we'd have to for us to approve the removal of a chimney we need to look to the part of chapter 9 93 that gives us the power to um to Grant exceptions and the exceptions are either if it's impracticable but this is possible so it's not impracticable or if it's an undo hardship and undo hardship isn't defined in this chapter and so we I don't really know how to weigh the because obvious using what using all of the square foot foot AG inside the house to for future Renovations like that makes sense and if it's not functional like I understand why you wouldn't want it um but we have to weigh that against what the township requires us to do and Our obligation to the the rest of the district I do think that these two chimneys because they because Wesley Place is on that side of the house you actually have a very clear view of them and it's beautiful that's a beautiful side of the house it's beautiful symmetry I you're walking down uh Park Place you look up and you see those two chimneys and you think wow that's historic because a house built today wouldn't have those two chimneys so it's adding to the district and that doesn't mean necessarily to me that there's no way they can be removed but according to the code we can't approve it unless we have we identify why we're granting that exception so if we want to do that I think we need to focus on that I wish there's a way that we could still have it so that we still have the chimney on the outside and let them do whatever on the inside like that's what I'm think replicate it later [Music] yeah right is possible to rebuild the chimney as a fake chimney with wood frame and because it is well I did Bricker on my house actually in in jadow Oaks I put brick veneer over that ugly concrete that's you know on the bottom it's actually stucco on the exterior you don't even easier then it makes it even easier oh my God yeah what what if they were if it's stucco then it could just be wood frame with with the Slate tap and the stco scratch coat and stucka or do it out of um God forbid Dy that or I'm just saying but but it wouldn't W it wouldn't W easily carried by the it would be capped off so there would be you know a cap but then be no flu coming out right right right what do you think yeah I mean we can talk to the roofers and see if they can uh bake it yeah it still would need to be flashed to the new room well that's I don't know how yeah because I know they had concerns because we did ask some of the roofers about faking it and their concerns were that they can't just sit it on the roof of the house because if a windstorm comes it'll blow right off and hit somebody so I'm sure they yeah so like they were just S I don't know if we had the most appropriate roofers I don't know if there's somebody who has more confidence in that usually if you just say to him well maybe we should ask another roof suddenly he'll figure out a way to do it we've had three or four already come out they all said the same well we've asked I think two of them about it and they've said that they can put a box with stucco on the outside out there that's fine but they did Express concerns about how to fasten it to the house and then put the roof on top of it I think I think that's a carry it's a carpentry question not a rofer question okay so the carpenter can figure out how to secure the structure they may have to go down a little bit into the roof to the roof structure to the part when they when they take the old chimney out there's going to be a hole in the roof right which is going to have wood framing be framed out as and the studs are just go down a little bit bolted into the the framing that's creating that opening and go vertically and you could even put you know uh framing straps and all that kind of stuff to hold it it's yeah I don't know if anybody has yeah I know it could be done I don't like I said I don't know if we found roofers who were because they're they were telling us to the RO the person to think yeah right you could do like a little trap door to go up into the roof and then look at we already have a trap door it's a pretty flat roof so yeah there's already a full staircase and a flat roof you can open and walk out around on it so I feel a lot better about asking to take a look at it if it's just stuck out yeah okay the other question I had was on the roof because you're replacing the top roof with white EPDM yes but you were saying you're going to use black flashing at the chimneys and it seems to me if you're going to put white EPDM down on the roof that you ought to just use white flashing on chimneys with white stck with white sucko so it's all just white I think it's a great idea to put the white EPDM down it's going to keep the the attic cooler have all that solar game eat island effect but um I just it seems a little weird to have a black strap around the I don't know if uh my husband just mentioned that because they currently have kind of a black on the B bottom but you can't even see it from the street I mean it looks like it matches the roof does match the roof you can't see any of that from the street because make it I'd make it all white just yeah I'm sure if all white would work as well yeah Ian you're you're right you're not going to really see we were keeping the back of the house that gray because you can see that somewhat I'm fine with yeah I you know yeah it's fine that part is similar to the yeah that addition that they did in 2008 they did with a completely flat roof yeah so it holds about four inches of water every time it rains and so that's why we want to have that part done first and they're going to bank it just a little insulation on yeah so that it stops becoming a second swimming pool tot really makes sense that's fine oh um okay so we I guess our our ultimate you know guidance is to go back is can I guess can we conditionally approve it if it if she's gonna do this you know this whole faking thing um white stuck yeah white yeah yeah yeah Okay cool so um should we go do we do a vote then we do a vote Yes for so you're voting on motion to approve with the um replacement of the chimney as a lookalike construction item on the roof in the white EPM on the top yeah yeah so move is it going to actually um is the ym going to be different now if we already have black we have is there black right now is it gonna it's gray it's you want you want to do white because hate reflection it's a lot cooler I did that on a flat roof section it's so much cooler um and you don't see it from the street right you can't see the at all from the so all right we are all in in agreement Okay so so I'm going to make that proposal um I'll second okay cool all right roll call Miss upmeier yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes thank you motion passed thank you thank you okay great next we have Miss Moody um from let me just make sure seven Maplewood right yes hi [Laughter] um so turns red there you go got it so how is your project going I know we met with you um about six months ago um to review the windows that you were replacing um and so looks like um we have a revised application um do you want to give us just a brief overview so originally um we had a guy that said he worked with historical towns throughout New Jersey he could do the Anderson or Marvin Windows and that's what I sent in the first time it was very feasible in price we got the approval and he disappeared so when we tried to reach out to other places the prices they came back back with for these windows were like three times what was quoted to us the first time so now we're finding that a lot of the places some of them don't even want to deal with the wood or the wood clad windows they're saying like we've put these windows in in historic places before and they're approving it and the prices that they've come back with are like 22 to $2,500 per window and all of the windows in this house need to be replaced and there's no way way that we can dish out $2500 for a window so the wood the uh I guess you want to call them the slats would be the same um we tried to see like if there was any other homes that you know dealt with bral Windows but kind of kept the same appearance so um that's what they said the plan would be that they would have the six all the windows would have the six I forget what you call them six yes and the proper term for escaping me at the moment but yeah they would have still in there they would be the mutton bars yes exactly I used to work for p Windows back in the day so I know a lot about Windows like that's not it yes bills would be in there they would be raised um I know some windows they said are flat those but they would be raised to look like the ones we have the wooden ones no they would not be flat I didn't realize those would they so the original look of the home because I I am familiar with Windows but they have the exterior mutton where it's looks like it's individual panes and there's stuff that is the flats inside the inside the pane not inside the pain and um have you looked at P windows I'm not 100% sure if he looked at the pillow windows because that's another option to check and and windows are expensive botom line they are expensive we just had no idea they were going to come back with 22 to $2500 I worked for pel um 20 years ago and I was quoting about 1,000 or500 to replace the window per window and then my higher end were 2,000 that was 20 years ago they're expensive and you know fortunately it's a my uncle's house and so it's a project that we're all that's been you know given to us which is nice but not nice when you have to basically just start from the bottom and really try to take care of it um do the pillow window are they the wood clad or are they yeah they have all the same options like Anderson and Marvin they're I think they're they're good Windows they have the wood clad yeah they make them all they have all the different options now but they have the wood clad and they have all the different features but they're running around the same price as the Anderson the 22 that's what was coming I know they're they're up there with Anderson and Marvin yeah a little at a time yeah that's what I was thinking too like just the front like no all the windows would absolutely have to be replaced with the with the wood the ones on the on the um it if you if the way the rooms are set up in the house if we did the front they have Windows on the front and on the side so you would still be half the windows I think the way it's set up it's not if you look at it from the street I think there's four windows but in in the house yeah you'd have wood windows and then vinyl windows on the on the side yeah I mean I have I have different windows in my house like depending on where I in the same room um when my like predecessors replace windows here and there here and there we've done in the past excuse me just the front windows yeah the upgraded windows and then the sides and the back the vinyl we have approved that in yeah I remember that yeah um I can take that back to them I mean and I remember like in our phone conversation it was mentioned that maybe there would be some other options other places to go to that is not gonna cost 22 to I know is there something in between like the just the vinyl versus you know before you get up to the the cladded window is there something in between I know they make f is that the price of the actual window or also the labor I believe that's total like for them to put it in and everything um CU then what you can get into is trying to cut down the labor the labor costs have gone up a lotb the well and the the original person to do it it was going to be a little less labor you know like the cost of the window was less and labor was going to be like way less than that this one they're company so I mean I don't know where I could go and purchase windows and then have some find somebody to put them in well but at the same time um there there's got to be that it does um the cost so so the issue is that you want one one company to do everything uh because of the install cost because I think I mean install cost does go down when you buy more from one company but I just don't know I don't know where to go to actually find someone to put in Windows without them because we looked at a couple of different companies and they all came I wouldn't recommend that you buy Windows separately from with the installer yeah I mean because you want somebody to warranty the work exactly and if if they're not going to buy the windows then they're not going to do that yeah so are there companies that do because I know we've had this done where we've had people do wood in the front and vinyl in the back are there companies that sell both oh yeah sure any company has more one yeah type of window we didn't find them we had there there the one it was like if they did if they did the wood windows they were just so expensive it wasn't like oh we were getting a deal because we still getting the whole house done um and then there was just a lot of companies that were like we only deal with vinyl even though we said we were looking to the options for the wood when they came out they're like oh this are top of the line you know and like vinyl windows so other than asking for the Anderson or the Marvin Windows I don't it wasn't so much the company those are the windows they were using so those were the prices we were getting back so that's my question was is there besides Anderson p and Marvin is there another company that has these wood clad windows or am I still going to wind up at the same price so once we've approved before aren't they Anderson 400 series I think that's I didn't think they were that expensive that's that's what we had the first time when I submitted it where the guy said that he was dealing directly with the warehouse so the prices were great um I don't know what happened with this guy but he absolutely just disappeared stopped responding to my brother so when we priced it out again at other places when they started coming back with the prices 22 and 2500 we were like for what what do you mean were there people from Anderson who came who were doing it or were they like um no I think it was I think it was a company yeah but they do Anderson does have a replacement window you know it's gold Anderson replacement I did my yeah Byers they have their own installers to go through Anderson or Pella directly yeah oh Anderson for sure because they do installation and then I did Pella through lows you can go through lows but or you can go through the actual like there should be a a window person yeah for like um ham like a Hamilton Supply that they're probably listed on the I feel like that's what happened with the Anderson ones it was like put your ZIP code in you get a dealer next you know close to you and so like Home Depot or somebody else came up that way I don't know that it said um we directly from Anderson that came out there but but you should be able to we done it regularly of having the the street facade be the higher level windows and the you know the as long as you're not on the corner um you know having the the not the less visible Windows be the vyl windows because you only have you only have four Windows window yeah like you have the nice fancy wood window and then in the same room off to the side you know the by one and I'm biased because I'm I'm a window window person I'm window stop so I think yeah I'm not in my house that's me being window so but with the with window treatments you know that are going to be going on the windows on the interior I don't think I I think that that difference would disappear if it's the same six over six configuration to paint and if the price is that drastic between vinyl and if you save that much money between vinyl and wood then you know well you only have you only have three windows on the front of the house four four yeah there's there's one two four right one on the upstairs attic two two and one the first was inventory and then the were you going to do it's over 100 years old were you going to do anything with the door itself the front door that going to be replace the door would be replaced needs to be replaced to I don't think the screen door needs to be replaced I think it's just just the main yeah the entry door behind it yeah I'm just looking because like I would I would just say like let's make sure we you know try to find um I mean because if Anderson is the they're the ones that offer the find someone who does the wood windows but also does vinyl as well um it sounds like for some reason the people you said that were quoting $2,000 were they only doing wood for the whole were they wanting 2,000 for window for the whole house yeah that was to redo all of them in yeah there's got to be someone who's willing to do I know for a fact makes all the different kinds they don't just make only wood clad they do make vinyl or the composite they make the composite stuff I just looked up Anderson yeah I think I remember you can schedule a consultation for will by Anderson for them to come I think to you yeah yeah and that's I that's the problem it's like even vinyl or wood no matter what it's the insulation cost though is what it is but that replacement window number the Anderson 400 Anderson right that's because of reasonable yeah theine series is their lower but the architectural series what's the name of the Higher One architectural series renew by Anderson's running some good deals there buy one get one my one get 40% off and then 150 off of each window no money down no interest no payments for 12 months to be true so they're saying you know it varies the labor cost here so the total cost window for 400 series is between 500 and 3,000 what' you say between 500,000 depends on the $400 window yeah how access right that that part we knew too it's like $80 to $150 to add those in which okay that you know that's fine but yeah then you're charging ,000 dollar to put in the window yeah and that's what I I don't even have architectural windows and I remember it was like but why is it more difficult to install the wood window than the vinyl window why would labor be that much different if you're for the vinyl it should it should be the same yeah but if you don't install it properly it's be so is that the issue is that the vinyl installers that are going around or they only sell vinyl windows and they only know how to do that and that's why their labor cost might be lower because they don't know what they're they only know how to do one thing like and also not all vinyl windows are the same quality yeah one company's vinyl windows could be worse than another companies and therefore less expensive yeah we had a company come out and cot us for vinyl windows the same price as the wood $2,200 and I was like if we pay you we might as well buy you know pay the wood window quote that we got like we're not paying $2200 for a buy window yeah window the window Market is is a touchy one I've had personal experiences where I wanted to replace a window and they came and they were very very funky about wanting to make sure my husband and I were both there and like he was coming to try to really like sell us pretty hard it was yeah I kicked him out of my house because I was like I can't deal with a hard cell on a window yeah um so I think that there might be something in this window business as well but what I've learned is it's it's really difficult to do this job all at once it's more of a as what you can afford as you go kind of a thing unless you're rolling in the dough but it's it's a kind of it to when in my experience with these prices it's like I had repeat customers because they would just do a room at a time each year because it was just like rarely would you get a whole job done you know where people were had the money to do that yeah that's not our time frame though to get the windows all done it's already it's hard to do you know been a while and they're damaged you know so it's like if you're trying to get the house in order and then you have Windows window yeah so are you willing to do some searching for uh configuration of the four Street Windows being wood and the rest of them being vinyl all from the same like uh seller and installer is that something that you're willing to consider I'll definitely back and and and check and pass it um to my brother because he's we're working on it together um I yeah from the information that I had on the one guy that I talked to like the was like they did not want to deal with wood windows they made it seem like it was so difficult and you know cost so much money and that's why I was like 22 to $2,500 is just ridiculous a window that to be considered installing window difficult yeah and that doesn't make any sense do it I've done it I feel like I'm going to learn how to do it after these prices came in new a new skill to my to my resume I when yeah when they did it in my house they stayed a lot longer than I wanted them to I mean it wasn't just it's not super simple job you to your point you have to have people that know what they're doing right and and I remember they did they spent a lot of time yeah yeah Robin the um on previous jobs window replacements in the district um the contractors the windows installers that have done those jobs is that public information that we can share as like you might reach out to these companies that have done work in the district before I think we're not supposed to do that I think we're not supposed to do that supposed to recommend you know well that was a coding that was a coding it wouldn't necessarily be a recommendation from us it would just be if it's public then it would just be sharing homeowner use it was a material I shared that I used on my roof that people could look and if it suited their their purpose they could use it get a contractor but we're not supposed to you know Steer anybody a particular contractor yeah I don't know if we can recommend sometimes we have contractors come and present and sometimes we have the homeowners so on a few occasions we've had the contractor come and in the past year we've had that so we did have someone give us a name to somebody who they said worked in the area and then I don't know if that person just was busy but we just never got a call back from from that person too because we definitely Tred to start with finding people that worked in historical areas you know I was like that's important you can't just we don't want to go and just rip the house apart you know we're trying to keep it as as best as possible with what we were dealt with but yeah I mean we were so excited after the the first guy it was like here's the stuff we submitted it and then we're like we have the approval like let's go and he was like I'm already gone I'm out of here like he just nothing so I mean we'll we'll definitely check now you're saying like how much the window are versus somebody putting them in I just figured they were like expensive Windows as well not that you're giving me a pack of bubble gum for a million dollars like that's they can break it out for you the cost of the window and and then the lab and the warranty for the make sure you have one of those that that part we know okay well I wrote it down um and we'll definitely go check it so we're not we and see what I can come up with for the at least the four windows at least the front four windows on the front so are we going to amend this application or what do we once you once I find I did the same time the second the this time too all right thank you Lu thanks very much sorry it's not easy what was the next one oh yes let's talk about that next I'm sorry my mother just got we just got an offer on my mother's house um for selling my mother's house sorry I got distracted okay yes let's talk about um should we talk about the the apartment building okay speak all right speaking of Chimney this has been a really exciting meeting um okay so we have um a late addition to the meeting agenda which is an overview um some followups about the um apartment building um so I mean I guess should we all just spend a couple of minutes reading the memo he sent or would you guys like me to read it out loud I just have one comment because I I listened or viewed the meeting from July awesome quite interesting I was telling Robin it was in your face I know for me to follow that I had to wait I then I said I need to read the me minut to figure out anyway one thing since I like Windows we were missing you by the way so much and you know we had shutters on one version and then the windows and then shifted to framing out the windows a one by4 stock what I this is what I was afraid of what I'm seeing um the framing you're eliminating the window sill and you're putting the these 45 degree miters on the frame which is modern touch not not uh adding to the historic value of this this property we need Windows and that's I was afraid I I my point is we're glad the window sills are there you keep the window sill and you could put the four 1x4 framing around it but don't do a m a 45 degree miter at the top it's got to be across across and then vertical yeah I these are I picture frame Windows yeah but that's that's more what you see modernizing housing that's not that changes the whole dimension right okay all right let's um why don't we just spend a couple minutes just reading through his memo okay the photographs yeah 5 by seven photos I don't see any of those is this the no and the other thing I think I picked up I think it was mentioned uh the windows would be black with grids again that would be a more modern what we see going on with a farmhouse style than what's currently there with the the white I thought that uh we had looked at historic photos right and I think at least one of them did have dark dark Windows right there was a historical photo it's black and white so you don't know if it's like you know New England has black sashes lot of town there is precedent for that dark but to the window true okay but historically if they do the house does have the S it's just the sashes that are black and the lons the newer windows that you see it's also the frame around it so it's much a bigger yeah and the and the um slides where but the Imes just was the sash right it would strictly be the sash but is that what this provia vinyl window if it comes well with the could come with the black frame I frame is probably separate from the looks of it you just have the white s or the sash but the newer windows are these final Windows too that's I'm saying is that what was presented at the previous [Music] meeting uh the question being did he present final Windows to replace wood windows last meeting no um the wood was going to be replaced with wood and vinyl was only on the back and sides according to the application and they would replace with final so this would be different than last meeting and these proposed windows are VY Windows [Music] yeah and there's a picture and they're talking black it's all the sash plus the frame [Applause] but I'm I'm just trying to follow because um he what picture what old picture of the hotel are we talking about with black windows no no it was it was a picture that we found online during the meeting is it on the wall not one that he presented to us oh no where was it was it in it in our our app's get gonna go check it but also in the historian's notes for the property on the map no that's [Applause] right this looks like all white and so where was where would be well that's because it's white yeah Jennifer are those pick one and pick two that he's referencing okay here we are yep that's the black huh look at that we've got we've got it online the wall this it's black cuz first I thought when we looked at this picture here this drawing I mean they look black because you'd have to draw it black to show it but in that picture they are black or they could be dark GRE yes or dark BL very typical oh yeah but it was just the S you can't get you can get black vinyl but I think the issue is still vital on the front Jennifer are those photos that he's referring to in his yeah they're right here okay take a so yeah that's let me pass them down because I'm okay why don't we start do we want to start by talking about the chimney situation because that might actually be I know that may be more straightforward um so for me personally this was really good information because I thought he if well tell me if you guys are understanding this right he actually is not looking to remove this chimney and I thought that's what he wanted to do when he came to meeting that chimney there's two chimneys there's one in the back yeah I thought he was wanted to remove this one in the front but what I'm taking away from his memo is that he is actually looking to remove a chimney that's in the back that we cannot see in the street um and what he believes is that it was not part of the original home uh and it was part of an addition that whole back was added so are we all in consensus that we're we're pretty 99% sure that was an addition in the bag I mean I agree I I I agree I agree with I'm okay with removing that CH so then that chimney could I know we're not supposed to well then it starts going back to the guy lines though if if we remove the chimney because it is not part of the original structure um it serves no purpose it's not listed at all in our inventory report as any features but it's on the rear facade and it's on the rear we're we actually it does mention historic Chimes as character defining features but it's wrong then yeah yeah I mean that back piece is definitely an addition I mean you could just tell the way the whole roof is framed in I we usually you know concern ourselves with the Front Street facing facade so we really there's there's no reason to to um not allow him to not allow him to do this or not you know agreed okay all right so then we have that decision okay so the next issue is the windows and that's where it sounds like maybe we are we need to discuss this more um because um first of all we're we have concerns about the window cills we have concerns about the windows all being vinyl um framing framing proposed that doesn't have the window still what you're with no window still and the way it's framed it's got 45 degree miter corners should not they that's to mod C jointed cut jointed yes same thing with the new door relocating that one front door on on the right I see the the framing has the 45 degree okay and the door is upstairs on the second floor same thing the frame everything everything's done that way yeah actually this one is not yeah the one on the upper left is yeah that's an actual question look at that one it looks different huh is this no but this um y'all this window on the upper left side in that room in the drawing it looks different from the other windows I think that's a door that's a door that's a door these are doors the upper for this is a door it's a door yeah there's three doors on the Second Story porch three one two okay um how do we feel about the is he is the door is he replace are he is he replacing these doors on the second floor I think not right no I think he said he's reusing all the doors reusing relocating okay so it's just the framing around the door you have concerns about he he has them depicted to match the window frames yep okay we say no okay um so the sorry the the application says that the proposed doors will replace with modern that's what the application says the last meeting last meeting and it was keeping the doors okay okay well so then we'll maybe we can query that as well it would be question of what what kind of doors is he using to replace with it's okay okay if he wants to put new doors in they're going to be better insulated and all that kind of stuff but just framing is is but the framing is not correct okay all right so it sounds to me like um we would ask him to come back to the next meeting okay so as per organiz chair if you don't mind so an applicant does not have to be present in order for the board to vote um he said we could call him I'm not comfortable with that I don't want to set that President everyone else has to come before us he should too yeah um so I'm not sure if you maybe wanted to approve the chimney removal on that addition and then he needs to come back for every other that's what I'm I would propose what do you guys think yeah okay I have a question is this the application itself has this been updated or that's the other thing original he didn't give me anything okay he should come back as well because origination says that in the front we will remove storm windows and new windows will be wood and he Windows rear or sides are currently vinyl and will we be replaced with same doors will we repl with modern so that's in his updated that's in the original because in the notes the meeting notes it says the plan is to use the existing doors and frame for them so I think well we should ask them to come back we should ask you know spe but we should give them some guidance about what we're hoping to see which is that a trim around the windows needs to include a sill traditional sill and the sill that's there should the S existing sill okay the trim should be butt jointed at the top that he should have wood windows on the front elevation and vinyl can be considered on the side rear and we need to see what doors see the door the design of the door okay and we're still waiting to see the elevation on the Eastern side of the building um because in particular those that's where those mini splits are proposed to be installed and that can have a significant impact on that side of the building yeah he was aware he said he didn't have time I just got this one today the elevation today I just got that today so that is at the Maplewood side yes okay well so we're going to go ahead and approve the chimney tonight and ask him to come back for the remainder that's what he was asking for it looks like the chimney first so he can yeah I think I hope that he sees we're trying as best as we can to make things work um and that you know we we he we appreciate him providing the information about the chimney and you know we're good with that and then let's um continue to work on figuring out how um you know his the renovation the windows and stuff can still keep the historic you know views from the front of the home and then we'll see what he also has planned for the sides and back so do you have everything you need yeah just need a motion for do a Chim removal only moot I can make the motion right uh motion to remove the Chim approve a removing the chimney and um ask the um the the team to come back um with our feedback um that we have will convey from this discussion and please be specific it's the rear chimney the rear chimney remove the other one yeah that is true rear chimney and that you know we have comments about the windows I am not going to go repeat everything guy had just said before I think it's on the record yes and I'll Rel cool I'll second thank you roll call for removal only miss ZM yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo thank you motion pass yay okay so um now we're gonna get into the fun stuff you do you want me to go over the minor oh yes yes let's talk about this okay so real quick I'll go over we have one silly question um in terms of some minor maintenance applications um and since this is my first year chair I I didn't know I want to get you guys to way in I want to screw this up so um one of which was the library question um and basically the library wants to put um uh solar panels and it's a new library and my first reaction was okay that's cool um has nothing to do with us um but then I remembered like our new street signs are right next to the library and the library parking lot is technically in our buffer um so the question is like does this have anything to do with us um solar panels where where they yeah that's that was my other question I don't know did you on the roof the we don't know if they're on the front of the roof the side face on the roof not on the property no no no on this on the roof but we don't know if they're like if they're going to be um facing the soccer fields or if they're facing the um homes on the Bunker Hill side or if they're facing the school well it would probably be facing the school or the fields that direction that's where the afternoon sun would be yeah wherever the sun is and our buffer is going away is that ex correct very soon the next couple months so um it won't be relevant so my my take then is I mean I guess we could just approve it so that they feel like or we could just convey to them that we don't we're cool with it okay yeah um okay so what were the other ones is there anything else we were going to talk about um the minor ordinary maintenance applications yeah okay so the minor and the ordinary maintenance and repair approvals that was done behind the scenes so seven Sims Court the Windows 10 Sims Court pool with deck and fences and fence sorry it was determined that you can't see that from the street 10 cranberry Neck Road off fence as well you cannot see it all from the street they have Shrubbery and you cannot see from the street and one Park Place East signage so that barn with the hair blowout that was being replaced as is exactly for the signage that's it so that's it okay so um next we have new business um does anyone have any new business okay um I have some new business in one of the old businesses so um okay so first with regards to Township signage um I did get an update on remember how we were talking about the having the auction of the signs that we took down so I I contacted DPW today to find out if I could get a one of them for cranbery day and it was communicated to me that they decided that they're not auctioning the signs off and that they're keeping them in case one of our new signs gets broken by a car truck or whatever that they would have something to use in case um while they're waiting for a new sign to arrive in um and so um I wasn't aware of that decision but it personally it makes sense to me if they're willing to keep it and hopefully I don't know how much space it takes up but it's not my problem if they're that's a decision um so I was unless you guys have any strong opinions I was just going to write back that like that's great but if you end up feeling like they're taking up too much space we would still love to do an auction so that we could kind of bring money back into the township is that cool okay um I think that was the only signage um update I had um the next is the Hamlet um Certificate of Eligibility for National register newses okay so I spoke uh I reached out to both Andrea tingi at the state historic preservation office and also to Mark nasted who's with uh middle sex County not heard back from Mark but I spoke to Andrea this afternoon I pointed at our difficulty of including the Monroe Township properties when there is no historic district there's no surveys uh for those properties and we can't force Monroe Township to do so and she admitted that there's never been an instance she said there have been cases where two CLG historic commissions have worked together on a project but not when one is and one is not so um she and I took a look actually at a map that uh Katherine had done so Katherine had accompanied Andrea when we did our site visit and um so she shared a map with me that Katherine had done which circled the important Monroe Township properties and she only circled two so you know all this like hubub and there's only two of the houses that she felt were you know Mrs Mor's old house and then the other one right and the one in the Middle where we had the lemonade I think in the new house right so so it's the other one the other one after that one yeah so it's 83 and 80 no 80 87 and 93 Hy Reed wrad and so she said how would the HPC feel about doing the survey forms themselves and I said I will ask so what's good about the forms so the forms would be like exactly what's on on our you know interactive map like using that same state Resource Property format but it's you know it's broken down into pieces so there's photographs there's mapping there's deed research there's General history for like the more of the site context we would use whatever was said in the uh you know for the cranber uh property surveys so potentially for just those two houses we could break it down and prepare the forms um in an amateur style ourselves to New Brunswick so uh what do you guys think is that something that we could do and put together these two surveys and um I'm sure to go on the property I think when we were walking through last time kind of let the homeowners know that we were there kind of what we were why we were there walking around pointing at their houses um and I I don't recall when you know we had the cranberry station Hamlet uh residents you know attending all the meetings on Force whether it seemed like many of them were actually Monroe residents yeah many there were only like four or five of them but you know there were Monroe residents so I think I think they're aware of the project and okay so um so yeah that made it seem much more manageable for us to make that progress um so if you guys are willing to kind of divy up um and we can put together these two I'll get it started and uh figure out what exactly what we have to do sound all right yeah I don't mind going in a new Brunswick anding it but I'm horrible at looking at Old handwriting so I don't know if any of you are better at that are you able to like photo copy things and bring them back for us to decipher I don't but like you need to be able to read the old handwriting to be able to find the next adjoining book there must be like an app for that don't you think it only goes up to 1950 and then prior to 1950 um you have to go in and look at the books at least that's when I when I was doing well you did it before for the for the Hamlet didn't you no I didn't no I think Liz did that oh really I thought you done so okay but i' I've done it like I did it over on like the farms and Shadow Oaks um is anyone good at Old handwriting like deciphering it no I mean at least we know how to write cursive as opposed to our children [Laughter] but AR suppos to have excellent I I'll try to I can make an take a crack at the deeing process okay it's going to be a little bit though I mean no I understand and I don't know exactly what the next steps are after we've actually you know created these uh property survey forms because there's still like more that needs to be amassed so maybe you and I need to have another like little working session when um when the professional surveys have been done in Cranberry I believe from what I've learned about that process uh one of the first steps was the state exporting the database rows for the properties that were to be surveyed and that included images that showed the property boundaries and the context and things like that so a lot of that starting point actually comes from the state once you tell them which properties are going to be surveyed cool so that that might be where we jump in after that I can check back with Andrea on that but I think you know she was looking as we were on the phone in her databases and was finding nothing on those properties because they just whereas our properties you know had the you know 1987 survey and they were already on the register these are just every day yeah very under the radar so um I'll have her check and just verify that so if we went down that road we go down this road and does cranberry then include these two properties in the next CLG Grant proposal because we don't upload that information into the state database when that survey is all completed who does the company we hire so it's been Richard grub right so the company we would hire would what would there if we were to do a CLG Grant which kind of the next question right what would the task be it would be to if well if we compiled the form but I guess they would maybe look at the form make sure it's all complete and then part of the um require our requirement uh whichever company does it at the end all the properties that are surveyed they after we we review them say it's okay then they upload that into the state database so the issue with the CLG Grant was that we were not eligible to apply until we've completed the Certificate of Eligibility can't complete the Certificate of Eligibility unless we have these survey forms so let just do them ourselves we're chasing each other right yeah we're chasing our tail so we have to somehow amass enough information and generate this Certificate of Eligibility form in order to be eligible to take the next steps with a grant we did it for the cranberry houses pretty easily yeah that's what I told Andrea is that like we went out only two houses and yeah we know at least one of them the PE the homeowners will talk to us and give us lots of background and maybe the other one as well so yeah okay okay very exciting progress okay cool um all right so next we have HPC public Outreach um I'm excited to share that um what about identifying designating so sorry I skipped we have our Stars here tonight wait yeah hold on yes I'm sorry I'm skipping all the way I'm SK two items I'm so sorry yes let's talk about that identifying historic sites unfortunately I've been at a visiting I visiting cranber coup weeks travel a lot so I hav't doing too much about it um but any contributed came on board and I just want to say I was going to do starting photograph photograph these properties in the spring but that's when my travel started picking up so uh right now all the tree trees in full bloom it's not a good time so it's it's going to be in the fall after some of the leaves drop some of these these long drives I that's see streets yeah so and we also I just mentioned to Amy that we need to go through the list and whatever on we add because there's got to be some properties that when you look at the look at the the the building it's really not of any contribution to the farming historic forming Community had so there might be a few on there that may not be worth don't okay or at least just Tak we could take an inventory of it but it's an inventory but you know when we get down to actually which properties do we want to have serving yeah uh then we can make that that decision and I think it was decided one of the comments was we're going to take off the um Cranbury handl CR station hand properties because we already have those serve so we'll take that there okay but we will do like the the Depot St station keep that oh no I just um and I don't know all the details I don't have I could probably go back and reference it but um I was following on Facebook one day somebody made a comment about some recent land being sold off di Road and people are showing a fuss about that and I don't know I don't know anything about I don't know all the details but I wanted to bring that up um people were saying why didn't we preserve that and who's it going to what's Farmland piece I think yeah I don't know if there's a structure on there um yeah I wasn't sure something to figure out because there's these two apparently on here yeah yeah um would someone someone anyone go that way who could take a look and see wherever there's a for sale sign and see if structure yeah um try to sync it up with the chatter and figure out if there's a structure in this um place where it's I'll I'll I'll do that I mean two the two structures that I think are in dire need of something is our favorite one on 147 plb Road and the other one is um I don't think it's part of stals farm but it's behind their one on Davidson 35 the porch is falling off yeah I mean it's a nice twostory Farmhouse horrible falling falling apart and so I I I see you guys have started to list out like owners and stuff I mean for some of these I don't know if this is like within our Pro I would love to know like why that home is like that and why it's empty and what happened and again we do have the Cranbury Township property maintenance code we have the tax we have the list the tax map report that we got to find out what's going we can enforce it we have to recommend that it be enforced yes but I don't know if it's ever been I mean the 147 that's been mentioned nothing's happened so like like yeah what is the deal with that like so who owns 35 George Davidson Road they're obviously someone has to own it someone has to be paying yeah I have to I was doing the cross reference and I think it was mentioned that the the list that we that Robin you provided from the tax office the way it's structured it's not it's sort of half I know but it's better than nothing no it's it's a starting it's a starting point searchable it's searchable and then the database that I was using which was offline for a while now it seems to be just for uh cranber I was a able to get to it end um because of that Daniel's law and yeah so things were taken offline but certain certain pieces are you can get to it have the owners I have I I have the list I didn't have a chance to to go from the tax record to put the owner um or even just to see like what happened like was it that it was someone tried to sell it and then no one bought it and that's why it ended up yes ient it back I wrote this I basically took my pencil notes and I typed it so this is our this is we're pretty good with this list as it is right now can can I just make a request uh there's so the revision from Mark had the key number column filled out and I'm guessing that was sourced originally from the master plan the 20 the list from 2010 which number filled out the First Column key number yeah I don't know what that reference so in the master plan on page it's in chapter figure 7-1 has a map of all of the these historic properties and then the next two pages is a table that lists them out and so that key number corresponds with the number on the map in the master plan so now there's more property so yes just add those numbers back exactly and that way we can verify that we're not missing anything that was already listed in the master plan and then also easily identify which ones are newly Rec identified that weren't in the master plan that's a good idea because I know I took some off that were on the original master plan that had since been demolished those we maybe even put those rows in but just even add a strike through or demolished or something like just so we're going through and we know I had them on I was told take them off they don't they're not there anymore it'll be easier for us to know that we're not missing anything if we see it with and then and it says demolish yeah that way I think we' put it back on so we can plan where we're gonna have our candl light vigil I would I guess I would be it'd be disappointing if we accidentally missed one of the ones that had been identified and we didn't catch that we weren't going to survey it so assure them can I make a request that the headings be put back on the columns because I don't know what's like the difference between column e dates and what dates are in column G it says it right there date built and current owner address don't I have the columns you see it lab right under it going from yours right under the title turn it over it's at the top of the first P it doesn't repe on page rep page I'll work on that that's easy good catch [Music] okayi homeing no but when you go to detail of it it does not say that anything about the actual yeah probably on [Laughter] purpose I wonder if it's to par a lot of these Farmland okay sometimes when you look when you I do the search um there's the H the house and then there's another parcel that's the Farmland which is taxed so what what um what do we does it say the Farmland what the address is or of that home 150 okay okay well it's not listed in here it's not on here here it says on here it's 222 or 242 at the construction okay okay I'll drive past yeah thank you for checking that thank you okay cool so we're making it happen here um okay so let's go next this is the most exciting one this is um the amendment to the historic preservation of the ma of the master plan um and it should be in your uh packet that um Liz prepared this um for us um so maybe we just spend a couple cou minutes just taking a quick look see if you didn't have a chance to look at it ahead of time um Robin as we're looking at this there was a specific question you wanted or Liz had for us about a certain what portion of removal of buffer zones or what was the question so the main question is obviously the buffer zone around the historic district is going to be removed as it doesn't go with the ordinance the historic resources down North Main also has a buffer zone and she wasn't sure if the HBC wanted to that removed as well or if you wanted to keep as is okay on North Main Street so we haven't added those properties into the historic district yet is this this is not this this is part of it isn't it isn't adding like the third property resource survey identified properties as part of this whole Amendment did that well table one shows recommended this we did this already though I thought this is what we did like a two years ago no we talked officially design exactly right so two years ago it was decided that we needed more research on the properties on North Main and so then we went ahead got the CLG grant for the survey and now this is the result of the survey and now we can proceed with the amendment to the master plan so yeah so then we're good to go am I correct but the question is about the buffer on on the North End of Main Street and whether that also should be removed I mean I think it should I think it was wasn't it discussed if those properties were added into the village historic district then the buffer would right part the buffer is someone's like yard um on North Main there's very little square footage that would be in the buffer today but wouldn't be added as part of this list and I feel like if it was significant to have that protected we would have had it surveyed in part of the list yeah perfect okay good so um should we vote to do we vote now to approve this or do we just say that's the planning board so yall are just reviewing it seeing if you want any men to it everything and if um so if we would like to have any um questions of Liz um we can ask at this point in the meeting and the only challenge just that we would need to have a separate offline meeting with Liz because she's not available on Tuesdays um so does anyone have any questions for Liz about this I had one question is and that is that this draft implies that the public hearing held three years ago is sufficient for us to forward these recommendations to the planning board but I'm concerned that that isn't the case that we should be having another public hearing um for two reasons in particular um there are five additional properties that are being proposed here that weren't on the list three years ago so it's not the same list of properties as three years ago and furthermore some of these homes that were on the list then have changed hands in those last three years so those owners have never received notification about this so if you don't mind chair um so I did speak with the township attorney so by ordinance the township attorney should be Consulting with HPC he said he feels that that is fine to not have a public hearing due to this going to the planning board and they are going to have a public hearing now mind you each homeowner is not going to get a notice but it will be public there will be official open public meeting act notice going out so that was his decision that it's okay that if there's not another public hearing another public meeting regarding this but then are these properties that are added those homeowners is going to be notified that their their property is now in the village historic district so I'm sorry so there was a properties added that wasn't the five notified yeah all of these These are going to be add all of these going to be added well one of them is my house I don't know if I think yours was in yours was already because yours was re-evaluated because the U the original survey did not include the whole property oh okay it was only a partial so we we made the decision to include the whole lot okay so that's why yours was um redone um could we notify the five 10 Bunker Hill sorry then was it there isue with the 10 Bunker Hill yes that that's the because that wasn't surveyed for the whole property right so now I don't know if that's going to be included right the map that she Drew includes yeah was the survey done though for that yes it was surveyed and in 2021 it was there was a version of the map in 2021 that added the entire property and then didn't end up in the actual amendment to chapter 150 so now it looks like she's reconciled that though okay it looks like it looks like this cleans up what fell through in 2021 I if if I had the same question that you're asking answer to that you have a home that has not been notified since the original public hearing are they going to be notified by the planning Bo that their home is in consideration for this amendment what was not notified what home was not notified well there's so any new homeowner in the last three years well homeowner but what actual property wasn't there the five properties that are that weren't in 2021 are 148 152 156 163 and 167 North Main Street those are all on this list but weren't discussed at the public hearing if that's the case and obviously we would need a new I wasn't aware that there was properties that weren't notified that were I I added I guess I can't say for sure they weren't notified but they weren't on the list and on the map that are on the website that we still have that list up on our section and they're not there okay so can we uh notify them about the planning board meeting I I shouldn't I would air on the side of being transparent and public and inviting people to provide feedback I would yeah well I will look into these properties that weren't notified to see if they were oh that's and then if they were then I think we should around the township attorneys I I agree I'm not an attorney so I'm just trying to protect the the township follow up on that okay so then that is um will be our our main next step is to not um research that um but otherwise do we have any other questions for Liz um pertaining to this uh this document I have none I have nothing okay so Robin you'll follow up with us um um and let us know and if we find out that they'd already been notified then we could technically still continue if not then we immediately have to have another public Hearing in September if that's the case okay all right well that's good I'm glad we're catching this now and hopefully we have notifi them and if not we have enough time to have the public hearing and then still bring this forward to Town Council okay okay awesome okay next um okay Grand very oh mayor's uh public Outreach mayor's communication mayor's been using the Flyers with our updates they did the sign one they did the library one and my plan is to do the um interactive map one next um the only followup I had Brendan was um figuring out where we which URL to put on that flyer which I know you're working on so um oh wait these which flyer the one well there's one that has the QR code that will be yes and then the other one is without the QR code um so uh I I would just strike the dot pages so cranberry. Devore that that will work and it's shorter cranberry. goov dodev cranberry. devor oh really okay cranberry dodev okay SL historic okay awesome all right so I'll work on getting this out which will be great and we could maybe use this um as well we can print this out for um our cranberry day Booth um make a big poer one um so okay we can we yeah let's talk about cranberry day to it because um I had written that we might do a map of the historic district at cranberry day blown up but then I couldn't find if we decided that was something we were definitely going to do or if we wanted to um like what we want to have is like blown up um as a as a group I I drafted out like just a banner so people knew what our booth was um I don't know if you guys had any feedback on it it's pretty simple um and I found out that I can get this done at staple for not a lot of money and then we could even reuse it it has little things on the side and we'll hang it up in our tent I I have a version of the logo that you can change the foreground color so if you wanted to use a white Township logo without the white background like the white on red yeah transparent background with a white front in foreground we could I can send that we could do that okay all right cool white logo um okay so with the you said you you wanted to have a uh map of the historic district that was well it was what it was an idea that I had written out but I don't know the change that were going know that's why do you want to have the existing one and then the new new addition additional piece to the Village historic district it would be a conversation starter H I don't know if you want to have that kind of conversation every day the um so the map that's online is rather than like tracing the property lines um has the dots for the properties if we're comfortable with that style of map then we can have we can make it whatever we want we could have every property that's been surveyed we can do different colors depending on whether they're in the district today or whether they're being added to the district um you could use that instead of that thing that be the map yeah yeah if you do you know I'll I can try to figure out how to snip it and see if we can blow it up I can prepare it for you um tell me tell me what you want it to be um so there's so yeah we can have different colors based on the status if you want a conversation starter about what's in the district what's being added to the district transparency okay okay cool I think it's better if we show what's in now and what's going to be added and people ask questions it's fine okay cool so I'll follow up with you Brenda we can um that out just a question on the uh whatever the is going to be and this is I don't know right format but should it be Township of Cranbury not Cranbury Township I don't know what's the official is always Township of Cranbury Cranbury Township Cranbury Township okay okay even though the by heading says Township of Cranbury that's why I was asking HPC okay okay okay cool good enough um okay um what else okay we talked about mayor's Communications um talk about this one oh yes there's this one so this one you guys last time we looked at this one that I drafted it out um and there was feedback about like the pictures not being super accurate um and so I tried to find um an old roof picture and I removed the there was a picture that showed paint colors and I know we're not supposed to do paint so and that's been like a um like a f FSE thing people talk about so was thinking um we do this one instead and then I wanted to know if this roof is the right kind of roof it I thought it looked like the roof that we put on the um History Center you know how we have the History Center they R did the roof is this the right type of material uh the um Historical Society that's what yeah that's what I'm referring to like the they both they both have a cedar roof Cedar roof Okay so I am not going to be like shap breaking like history historic because I do not have a historic roof um my mother has a slate roof I don't I'm not good with roofs and the new uh Cottage 17 it has this stuff too all right cool okay good all right so if you guys are good with that um I have um this new flyer and we can also get this one out I'm going to try to pulse it um this probably won't go until like September October um because I'm going to do the the historic map first and then I'll do the new project one um and then the next communication that we I had on our list to do um would be to do something out about the difference between HPC and chps and so they'd be partnering with them on on that um and you know doing a like a flyer that explains the difference between the two groups um okay cool any other comments about um cranberry day oh I think this flyer is great so just talk thank you well do we need to assign or oh yes let's talk about cranberry day okay so while we were setting up I think I got it right where I set up three time slots 8:30 211 11 to 1:30 and then like 1:30 to 3:30 for whenever people leave and that's so the 8:30 people would be like setting it up and hanging out while it's a little quiet the 11 to 1:30 people will be there during the busiest time and then the 1:30 to 3:30 people just going to be flat out miserable it be hot and um wanting to go home and and then cleaning up I want to do setup please okay first come first SE Su doing setup I can do the last one I don't mind being the being there at the end I can do either of the last two sorry I'll do either of the last two here the set up the middle of the last to be fine the middle or last okay so set up setup okay Amy Amy and Sue set up Brandon probably prefer prefer the last guy okay I'll go during the busy time time um sorry I can't volunteer I'm out of town okay and then Bobby you're not able to okay so I'll man it on my own uh from um 11 to 1:30 really oh that would be so [Music] great nice oh Fant fantastic Okay cool so I want to buy one of these I'm willing to buy one of these if the township will reimburse me how much is it it's $40 for the whole set that's so fun are you gonna set it up with the questions and everything too yeah it's like Spin and answer a question and you don't even have to answer the question right to get your prize your prize did Lisa did you get a prize one of our yeah needed that I know it's perfect for your car so it'll be me to measure the tennis net the right height the Ducks are usually at what two I think typically so so there's no grand prize I'm just like you know it's just have a have a category so I'll I'll send out like ideas you know of and I'll welcome any ideas of how many like slots we have to fill of like silly questions for people to answer so yeah like can we put up final Windows do we dictate allow to remove chimneys I think P pain color one is a good one because that's the biggest the biggest myth top everybody thinks a house in Cranberry has to be white and it doesn't yeah yeah yeah HPC is not responsible for the old Pizza holl build oh my God building that should be a question is a PC responsible for the cranberry Pizza site yeah okay you should get your own wheel I think that that is great that is fantastic Su thank you for doing this sure and and I'll own the whole um bringing the uh the banner um I can bring a tent um and tables I think I volunteered to do the tables too um chairs I mean I don't know if we'll be we have I don't know we'll just communicate um yes okay okay and then um and then we have our charies so um I think we're in a great shape I'm I'm super excited our first cranberry day cool okay uh next we have the interactive map um and this is where I had new business um is um so the interactive map um went viral and there was um people are like super excited about it so many great feedback and I did see some like on social media super positive feedback about it people were loving it um I did see one question from some folks asking why our interactive map and our inventories don't include the fire station Museum and why we don't include the original fire station you know that shed that's over um there and I don't know why like and I looked at the anarch map because it's not it isn't there do you know sort of yes um so I've uh uh there there on the each of those survey reports has a map map at the beginning that shows which properties were going to be surveyed or were surveyed and there are a handful of properties that are marked on that map but don't have property reports in the p in the PDF uh so The Old Firehouse um the Victorian in the corner of Parkplace West in North Main Street was marked as if it had been surveyed but wasn't actually there wasn't a property report for it um these it just wasn't delivered in the Sur in the survey report that was given to the Commission in years fast those are the earlier ones those aren't in the 2023 survey those are 2017 2018 I have continuing on new this discussion with the interactive map I have spoken with the state's GIS uh expert I've meeting with him next week to uh to resolve the incorrect District boundaries that are in the state database and at that meeting I'm going to ask about those properties that I've identified because it's possible that they're not in the property report but they're in the database and so if so they can generate a new PDF for us of those properties but it's also possible they just weren't surveyed don't know okay I'll have more to report once I have that meeting with him next week do you remember anything like Bobby Dave like any discussion like as we've done you know when we did our you know our our surveys and those those I mean because the firehouse Museum I don't even know how that building is isn't it weird it's like right in front of our faces what guing the yeah it might be I'm not sure why that wasn't wasn't included I have yeah it's like right in front of our faces [Music] but I know according to the map it was meant to be what about The Old Firehouse though that's the shed because the shed is owned by the homeowner I think it's mentioned in passing on the property report for that property yes it is yes I recall but it doesn't say in the shed that the shed was I I think I I would look to see it doesn't say in the property report that that shed was the original Firehouse right I think it does that's the only way I would know yeah I do think it does yeah oh it say it's it was the original Firehouse I think the original first started CG theard secretary at the time gave us a list and we weren't sure what we were going to be graned it was a lot less than came out yeah so we shuffled it around and up with the properties which contributed the most yeah and then we actually got the got the first gr second but you don't remember anyone saying like we refused to do this or the first initial list yeah for the properties in the village histri yeah there wasn't any question this was the official list so that's what we went yeah and how weed the proper okay so and I think for the first one I think what we ended up doing for the first one was we thought second also foll year was subse was to just do like South South Main Street first that area sou L vice versa section we just didn't do it by contributing factor as first okay just shouldn't have done the um we had the main list that was given to us was my point anything nothing about like oh let's not so that's maybe I think it maybe have just slipped through the cracks that we oh you know we gave it to the consultant and this is what you come back with and it it may even have been presented in a preliminary report and just didn't make the final report I'm not sure it won't know until we dig into the state database I mean we did track the properties we went over you know find two whatever was on the list that's what we we reviewed to make it into the state database so I okay well good well let's investigate it and uh cool I don't know if there's a plaque on it yeah that's the other thing we don't I thought there was too I think there's a PL the original Firehouse you're talking about the shed yeah not the shed the old oh the museum yeah oh oh that was the um the thing we were doing they're doing y the roof oh yeah there it is it has a plaque okay cool all right so we'll follow up for that for our next meeting um thank you Brendan um okay then the other update I have about the map um Jennifer you know this but uh I wrote an article for that will be in the next chips newsletter and it's a really good article talks about the map and talks about the collaboration that we have with chips in writing those historians notes and also is a little um opens the opportunity for anyone in chips who would like to help contribute and grow those even further than they are today nice love it um cool so fantastic um next topic we have is the student um volunteer for the commission um idea uh does anyone have any updates on this um well I had I had written the description and passed that on and I don't know I anything back from anyone after that in terms of being reviewed by TC or otherwise whoever had to review it to to make it official okay that could be a Miss on my part did you send it to me as well to rob me and Robin yeah okay um let me I I missed that guy I'm sorry right let me take a look at it and um and then maybe what we can do is in the next meeting let's we can take a look at as a whole as a group and talk about it but this is um Miss uh n you did awesome I just don't I don't know how we we manage it so if I get a better description of it yeah did you find I had met with them at the library and talk to them and they were all asking about how they could get involved [Music] and local asteis and so you're interested in top have a Bo committee on this is a great way to do that so you can kind of get tied into getting younger people involved in things that yeah and I mean in talking with someone in town I found out that their daughter wants to be an architect and I'm like oh my God like you know teenager it's like what a great but but it's a type of opportunity what a great opportunity for someone who's look looking at doing that you know to get an opportunity to really to work with people and you know um did you do you have a chance to follow up with the people in that town in in ill was it in Illinois can we try and let me know like if you have any success because they seem to be like the closest people doing what we're looking to do and maybe they have even a description or like what how they're they're framing it in their Town um yeah that would be don't okay perfect um okay next we have Revolution New Jersey any updates on that yeah get your tickets it's gonna sell out set what is Whispers from the grave is that like is that like talk in cemeteries and reenactments and such well there's going to be an a outside group coming in sometime this fall to do oh some sort some sort of mystery walk or something nothing to do with no I'm just saying it could get intertwined with that yet is that like a ghost tour or something something like that it's but it's I think it's not so much factual yeah um last is uh commission training any updates on training I did some um preservation and J had an online HPC Roundtable on July 23rd they recorded it but I'm not sure that it's been made available for replay uh but the discussion was focused on ways that hbcs can work with local construction and zoning officials talked about uh Municipal land use law and Zoning permits and construction permits and how that interfaces how that how that intersects with what we do and one of the challenges that other towns brought up was that sometimes a project especially with some recent changes in New Jersey state law doesn't require a permit uh but can have a significant impact on the exterior of the house and those towns don't really have a way of enforcing their their standards the design standards in that case because it doesn't go through the process of the permitting uh and someone had mentioned like hypothetically like it'd be really cool if we could send letters to every new homeowner to let them know about these rules that apply like even though you don't need a permit and um it's pretty cool that we do that because it doesn't seem to be that that that seems aspirational for most uh districts in the state to be able to send a letter like we do to every new homeowner and make them aware of those rules so um we're doing great cool thanks for sharing do you know how long that waso it was an hour and a half okay thanks ni cool all right we're moving along minutes from July 16th does anyone have any coms comments on the minutes I had no comments okay all right make a motion to approve the minutes we move seconded all right roll call Miss upmeier yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes thank you pass right discussion uh public comment all right you make a motion to adjourn so second all right all in favor say I I thank you yay