order tonight um statement statement there we go statement have adequate notice sure under the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act was provided on January 18th 2024 of this meeting's date time and location the agenda was mailed to the corber press and Trend times posted on the township BS and board mail to those requesting personal notice and filed with the municipal clerk roll call Miss Anderson here miss albadawi here Mr Baron here Mr gidds advised us he was not attending Miss Jones here Mr milenberg is not here yet uh Mr Stewart here Mr Whitman here and Miss Bon advised us she was not attending today all right chair we have a quorum okay great um just for technical reason my name is Wayne whitmann I'm the vice chair but I'll be chairing the meeting tonight since the chair is out so just a technicality but that's just to let everybody know that um first thing on the on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from April 4th 2024 has everybody had a chance to look at that and if there's any corrections or comments please let me know I'd like to move uh approval of the minutes for April 4th 2024 second all right roll call approval of the April 4th minutes Miss alwi yes Mr fonte yes Mr Stewart yes and Mr Whitman yes thank you motion passed okay second agenda item tonight is a consistency review it's cranbery Township ordinance 04241 and I'll read it in its entirety an ordinance of the township of cranbery middlex County New Jersey regulating the storage of salt and other granular deicing material pursuant to the Township's ms4 permit requirements so should I turn this over to Sharon to explain would you like to go into that Sharon a little bit sure all right um what the board's job here is to find that the um ordinance is not inconsistent with the master plan so uh if you've all read it um you know you someone could make a motion to do that if you have need an explanation on the ordinance it's basically uh an amendment to the H private assault storage oops requirements and uh comes up with definition um has the storage requirements for outdoor storage deicing materials um has a procedure for doing that and then has some exemptions and penalties so can you briefly describe what changed oh I I really um I don't have the actual ordinance here does anyone else was ited outre uh it was in the package it says uh new language is underlined like section okay well then if that's the case the only change to it is except that is in section oops it's uh has to do with uses that are prohibited in all districts and it's said before that outdoor storage of deicing material was prohibited um in all districts but they modify that to say except is provided in article 7 chapter 130 of the code and that's uh in this particular ordinance itself because section one is amendment to chapter 130 streets and and sidewalks so you can have um the uh materials if you've got a permanent in them in a permanent structure and uh you have to have them uh and you can have temporary outdoor storage so I think they must have realized that um it previously stated that it was all you know prohibited everywhere without thinking about the rest of this amendment that's what it looks like to me and just and just for a little Clarity on this we this came about because people were just storing piles of salt out in the industrial area for their parking lots just not covered and run off and or bags of salt that were ripped open or whatever so we needed to clean that up so to keep this type of material from getting into waterways or draining stitches or anything like that so good well if everybody feels it's consistent that's not not not not consistent that's right double negative yeah I'll I'll move that um the ordinance proposed is not inconsistent with the master plan do I have a second second all right roll call Miss Anderson appr Miss elwi yes Mr fante not inconsistent Jones double negative no yes Mr Stewart yes and Mr Whitman yes thank you motion now just for a protocol this goes back now to the township Comm and then they'll take this up there'll be a public hearing I believe it's on the 13th of May so this meeting was between the introduction and the second reading of this ordinance so okay next item on the agenda is the resolution PB c um this was an extensive War and Peace novel that Sharon worked on in in conjunction with our meeting that we had on this which was quite extensive so everything was put back get put you know cobbled together put back together and outline and I if if anybody you know did have the CH chance to go through this and you know if there's any thing that they've seen that they don't like or that is not U sorry I I can just explain that does everyone have the one that's with the package that says it's revised to 5224 that's the latest draft of it and uh basically I I had some comments from the applicant and our professional so anything that's underlined is new and I also just went through it grammatically and changed anything with a symbol for feet to the word ft just to make it more clear and uh you know so it the big thing that um we needed to clarify was the fact that the during the hearing the parking spaces changed you know they applied for 73 and ended up with 71 because they moved the handicap parking around so we just clarified this resolution so that it does reflect that they applied for 73 but it was changed during the the hearing so I I was just going to say I really appreciate this was a marathon meeting and I appreciate um M dragan sort of putting together a 28 page memo on this because this as you know this is the this is the hand off this is the memorialization of this decision we have a diff the this now gets handed to the township and there's different set of Engineers and and planners that are in charge of that and so this we have to be sort of amazingly thorough on this so that to make sure that what we agreed as a committee that this gets in there and I think M Dr does a very thorough job of getting it all down and sort of putting enough context so we both understand the decisions and the the context for those decisions so thank you for that I move that we approve do I have a second I'll second right roll call Miss Anderson yes Miss elwi yes Mr fonte yes Miss Jones yes and Mr Whitman yes thank you resolution carried and again thank you for your your everybody's help on this was a big effort two me this one was two meetings ago according to this it list me is yes yes that's right probably let me do that real quick I apologize thank you Jason wasn't that me meeting it was carried but it wasn't no it wasn't table no it wasn't table okay yeah that's right Jason's good you're not okay all right roll call for the memorialization of the Ary Associates resolution Miss Anderson yes Miss elwi yes Mr fante yes Miss Jones yes and Mr Stewart yes thank you motion passed thank you Jason okay my cheat she here next item on the agenda is an application PB 386 d23 Sher Estates two Brickyard Road so we'd like to invite the your lawyer so if you can introduce yourself mind on the mic that's it good evening everyone nice to see everyone again Walter Toto on behalf of the applicant uh shrii Estates LLC uh this property is known as two Brickyard Road it's also lot one in block 16 it's at the uh Southeastern corner of cranberry can I interrupt you one second remember do we have jurisdiction here this oh I'm sorry I should mentioned that you took jur we have uh we were tabled from the last meeting but we were okay two meetings ago for this okay by thank you chairman thank you Sharon okay so the board has jurisdiction uh so again uh the property is two Brickyard uh it's also lot one in block 16 it's at the Southeastern corner of Cranberry Circle sh if you want to put that up if you don't mind um at the intersection of uh South Main Street or heightstown Road and Brickyard Road uh it's a corner lot measures just shy of an acre and a half and it's in the GC uh General commercial Zone um currently the site we're not proposing any improvements uh I should say any improvements to the uh to the buildings we're not expanding uh but we are improving the site and I think we're improving it dramatically in our proposal um there are two buildings that are existing on the site and currently my client occupies one of the buildings um his HVAC company uh axure AK a r uh hbac has an office in in one of the buildings um traditionally and again this is an application for preliminary and final site plan uh we have some requests for waivers there are two pre-existing uh bulk non-conformities uh but just so the board is is what in the interest of full disclosure I'm not expecting a vote tonight I know based on the tenor of the reports there are some things that we need to do on our end some additional homework but I do think we're far enough along to have a fruitful discussion with the board tonight uh based on what we've submitted uh and be very interested in the board's feedback we think we have a good plan but again I know there are some things to do here uh going forward so I don't expect to ask for uh the board's vote tonight but merely to get comments and some and some feedback as to what we're doing uh sh I'm gonna have uh auxer actually test first right okay sorry you want to call do we want to square all of our people in and then sare yeah I mean normally what we do is um swear all the witnesses in together at the same time and then as they come up you can have them qualified that's fine so board's Witnesses and your your Witnesses you want to raise your right hand okay do you promise to um testify that the truth that you're about to give before before this board is the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do okay okay so we have the reports from Miss leaney uh Mr hoder and Mr fanda uh we prepared to address those I only have two witnesses I have oxer he's the principal of shi Estates uh and Sharie Ali is our project engineer so I'd like to start with Mr am would you mind spelling that a m i n m i n a k s h a r oxer good evening how are you good where do you reside uh we live in Monroe okay buildings in uh office or businesses in cranbery sure and what's your affiliation with the applicant sh States uh my dad and I own okay and yeah sure and the subject property is owned by shrii Estates is that correct yeah okay uh when did you purchase the property uh last February so just over a year February of 2023 of 23 what were the existing uses at the property the time you purchased uh there was one tenant uh that had a storage company uh was using it as an office space and was that in building one the one closest to Heights toown Road or the building in the back okay sure of course Mark that as exhibit a and I also want to get something just straight right off the bat because I was very confused by the plan and reading everybody's reports because there's an inconsistency on your plan it says that the building that's closest to heightstown road is building number two okay on on the but when you look at the parking requirements section it says it's building number one so let's make you know decide which building is which one is like 4500 sareet let's have that be one that's gonna be building one okay so you know when we make our changes to the plans that's going to be building one and I'd like the reports to all reflect you know what the correct building is for which one of course so um all right yeah if you're looking at this plan at the picture now the one that's closest to heightstown Road that's going to be building number one and then one in the back that is probably not a dwelling but you'll tell us that's going to be building number two right it's it's a former dwelling but that is building too yes thanks Shar now let's call what are what's the name of our exhibit A1 uh the exhibit is preliminary and final major site plan and it's the color version I take it it's the colored version and what's your um your date on it no it's May 2nd 2024 okay but it was that's the exhibit is dated that but the plans are from I believe February yeah there's been no changes to the plan except for the color just the color colorization yes thank you okay so uh Auer at some point in April of 2023 you applied for a zoning permit uh to use one of the existing offices for your hbac company correct yeah that's correct okay and that permit was issued yes okay but the permit was granted with the condition that there be no outside no outdoor storage of equipment materials or Vehicles yeah correct okay the permit further stated that if you were to seek any outside storage you'd have to come before the board and and obtain relief yep correct okay uh now at some point in August of 2023 there was a notice of violation issued by Mr Alexi CE uh the code enforcement officer correct yeah correct explain for the board how that came to pass why did that happen what was the so uh for our hbac company we have uh three vans that we have uh on site uh so we have to keep those overnight uh as our employees come in the morning take the Vans and go to work and then they come back drop off the Vans and then take their personal cars back home so we have three vans that are uh on premise there was also an issue with a wall sign correct yeah we just had a cardboard not glorified cardboard sign outside of our building well we're changing that we're actually asking for a wall sign now correct as part of this application was there anything else that was problematic was there work done without a permit yeah there was a uh Block in the front that had been uh paved that was done uh I guess without a permit when we had uh we had a paper that kind of drove by he was doing some work in Cranberry height in heightstown uh and mentioned that he would you know pave this for us we asked him if there were any permits that needed to be done or anything that need to be done he said no Township doesn't require permits so uh we let him pay that and oxer point out for the board what area of the property that workk was done uh about like this por and Can you estimate the square footage of that area that was paid yeah like 3 800 maybe 3,800 square feet in that corner before it was paid was it it was gravel before yeah and one good thing about this application is we are reducing the impervious coverage overall by 133% on site but my engineer will get get into that a little bit more um yeah you did yes yes indeed we Now understand that completely um let's talk so you right now um oore uh LLC or hpac I'm sorry is currently occupying the property correct yes okay how many employees you guys have uh including my dad and I we have five how many in the office one that's full-time in the office and how many well actually my dad and I and then one more and then one more okay and then technicians yeah two technicians and so they are basically on site on the job rather yeah so they come in in the morning uh like I said they load up the Vans they take a you know take the Vans out to work okay install and come back and what are your hours of operation uh typically 8 to 5 and how about days Monday to Friday Monday to FR okay um explain for the board and again we're talking about building one closest to heightstown Road or also known as South Main how many units are in that building building one four this one has four okay and what are their Square footages do you know that offand yeah so starting from the left uh about 1100 square F feet uh 750 1,700 and then 400 okay and then building two what's the size what's the interior size of building two 1,600 about about, 1600 okay and you guys currently occupy building two and that was a former dwelling let me put it this way strike that when you guys purchased the property was there an existing tenant in the dwelling 2 not in dwelling 2 but it was set up as like an office space what do you know about the history of of building two yeah so building two uh vacant when we first bought the property um it had it was set up as an office bace so there was like a like an architect office so it was set up in that way but I mean it's been vacant for years okay and so now you've got four units in building one that are currently vacant right yeah okay so the idea is to get this approval and start getting some tenants yeah okay have you spoken with anyone about leasing yeah any proposed tenants yeah initially before we knew that we had to get site plan approval um we had found a lot of tenants that were interested in uh renting out portions of what were the types of uses uh we had a couple local florist of cranberry florist uh wanted to uh expand their business um there was a young lady who wanted to open up a hair salon uh and then we had a local Family Dentist office um yeah there was a lot more like that so the focus would be to to lease to tenants whose uses are permitted in this Zone yeah correct okay and did you find that most of these businesses are local family type businesses yeah no they're all local they currently either have a building that they're looking to move into um but they're all family owned okay but right now you have no written leases no I don't okay um would you allow a tenant to reduce the amount of units to increase their own size in the interior of building one or is the plan to keep them all no the plan is to really just keep the inside untouched okay in terms of uh and then as part of this application when the board finally does vote are we asking the board to approve overnight parking and if so how much oer yeah I mean absolutely that's that's integral to our business we can't have our vans you know there's nowh there's no way to put them are we asking specifically for the three uh yeah for the three now okay we can get back to that uh yeah okay let's see what else how about delivery deliveries what do you guys have in the way of deliveries and what types of trucks come to the property yeah we have uh we have units so aack units furnaces AC's that come and get delivered uh they're not big semi they're sort of uh like box trucks yeah box trucks okay okay all right nothing further uh for Mr am me thanks I the board may have questions or the professionals is is someone else going to testify as to where the box trucks come in and park a sure why we yeah you know what he he's in the best position to yeah that's fine right now they just come from this brickyard and we have like we just store stff in uh here so we just have come so right now there's completely uncontrolled access so we're going to modify that so there are only two access points and I know Mr fanda will speak to that and my my engineer will as well anything else for streaming what size of the Vans again the comp Vans work vans Pro they're pro masters so like the uh What uh it's a car van high high box cargo like a sprinter van or something like exactly okay does any board members have any questions at the moment okay okay you're good for now Sharie you ready all right all right are you're sworn in but let's give the board your your CV have you testified before this board before yes and were you AC number of times yes were you accepted as a an expert in civil engineering Sharie Ali Aly just quickly go over your qualifications again please sure um graduated from uh NGIT uh New Jersey Institute of Technology back in uh 85 uh received my license in 89 and since then been preparing site plans and subdivisions appearing before so many boards throughout the state pretty much in all counties and and your amch is your firm you're the principal of am yes okay and your license is active in current and my license is active right I feel that we're good on that so we can move forward thank you all right sh describe for the board the the engineering aspects of the plan to start yeah just pretty quick so you heard that uh we lot one block 16 and uh shows on the official tax map uh sheet number four it's about 1.48 uh ACR uh site that uh on the side of uh Route 130 uh North it's got the view of Route 130 North with Frontage on Brickyard as well as South Main Street uh you also heard that there is two buildings on site uh building one is the one that shoved right in the corner of brickyard and South Main Street and just for clarification the reason is shown number two that's the address yes and building not sure if that's helpful I know I know just that's the address on brick so uh but we'll clarify it that's not um uh and building number two is the one right uh behind it with same thing it's got It's a corner lot so it's got the frontage on brick and South Main stre one story uh building number one's got multiple doors sidewalks running all way around the building pretty much and uh all the doors are flushed with the existing pigment right now uh building number two has got a number of steps and uh to get to the uh first floor the the site is equipped with uh septic and Wells um and electric and we're not expecting to uh to bring any utilities except the water main that will be coming down on Brickyard that propose uh will be hooking up to that water main uh in the future um so the uh you heard building number one is uh a little bit over did you say that again back about the water the water main American Water Company because there is a the the American Water company does have a main going down Road and when becomes available will tie the two building to the water line in the future but it should be available it's there now uh unless it's not unless not within the front yeah cuz is that the yeah the pipe the American water pipe goes down Brickyard Road and came across came across the circle okay and up South Main Street past my house which I did up water line all right so so that should be it should be available for you to hook up or or I would research that no okay thank you so um so that is being clarified um so uh building number one is a little bit over uh 4500 square ft the river size is 452 Square ft uh building number two you heard is400 Square ft so um you also o heard the site uh portion of the site uh was the area in front of the uh building with Frontage on Main Street they're pretty much paved uh the area in the back is uh broken pavement gravel uh you also heard about the uh the site is uncontrolled access uh on both roads uh and I believe our client that when you moved in he kind of like tried to redefine the access so he did a good job but it not good enough this side plan will redefine the point of access that the site there's a number of parking spaces on site some of the parking spaces it's got the um the back into South Min Street uh this site plan will improve that by removing all the pavement in that area so that will be quite a bit of improvements um we're not proposing any addition to the existing to the existing uh building um we uh our proposal is to redefine the point of access to the site from Main Street as well as brickyard and we'll talk about brickyard and a realignment in the future of Brickyard uh also a re a scribing the uh parking lot with defining parking spaces that's our proposal and Landscaping and we will um address the lighting too on site so that is pretty much what you see on the rendering uh the existing building that's building number one building number two redefine the point of access in and out and the restriping the parking lot two Ada uh spaces and as well as two EV spaces as shown on the plan right now we have 30 spaces with the credit that we get from The Av providing to AV we get two more so it's total 32 uh you heard about the loading area and it shows on the uh the plan it's right behind uh building number one uh along the side of breakyard so that is pretty much what we have have shie let's review the uh the requested checklist waiters that are mentioned in the reports but if you could just go over each one which ones were actually going to resend and supply to the board and which ones were still requesting um so checklist item uh on page two of six I have that's Mr holder's report yeah yeah so if you go Mr holder's report uh sheet 206 um technical review and item number one number two is a checklist item uh item number 40 which is a Lial as a we will address the drainage calculations that's not we will provide so you will address we will address we will provide an dra narrative you heard Mr TOA that we reduced The Improv coverage on site yes you did yes we did so uh so now we call Motor Vehicles you know travel ways that's the new terms so uh we will be reducing that by 8800 square feet that's about 133% uh so that's a are you going to get into how that's going to happen I'm sorry is part of when are we going to get to the testimony about what's the puts and takes on the impervious surfaces you mentioned that you're actually reducing things I don't see what you're let's describe that down absolutely sure no I mean I don't know no it's fine that's a good question yeah we're talking drainage right I'm keeping track and right now I've heard a I've heard a debit for the the pav the illegal Paving and I'm waiting for the credits and I'm trying to keep track of the illegal the illegal pavement just were clar uh uh clarifying that the illegal pavement my understanding is it went from motor vehicle travel way of gravel to motor vehicle travel way of in previous but from a drainage calculation it was but it would make any difference as far as drainage you still motoric gra you're saying that's you're saying it was impervious before yes and then after it's still impervious go it gra imp if it was gravel before and it's paved now then it's it went from impious to impervious gravel is impervious the city of New Jersey now with the storm water regulations calling tra gravel is in their roads right right now is motor vehicle travel way though so it's gravel is in previous so we've been through that with DRC the DP has changed their tune on the last couple years and that's both commercial and residential that that if it's a traveled way meaning trucks cars whatever drive on it okay it's like pavement they're calling it like pavement so I mean the the the impervious numbers might be slightly different okay maybe 90 versus 85 or 95 versus 90 but but there's but it's not like 20 years ago when everybody called gravel uh perious okay okay it completely changed okay so that's what we we use the D's storm water management uh regulations so that's where it comes from that's helpful thank you yeah yeah so let me uh uh clarify that so the area if you look at the existing uh condition which is on sheet one you'll see that PO area here spe now it's going to be grass that's the area where you have the parking spaces out there and you back into the main street so that would be eliminated how many square feet is that that you're eliminating uh total square footage is about 8,800 square feet and to clarify two is back here this that's going to be all so the part just a summ is the parts that are being removed are the the parts facing the in the Triangle of the two roads corre and then sort of down Brickyard Road there's a all around all around that building is paved in front of the building and around the side you're proposing removing all of that black top and and making it pervious coverage correct yes and just keeping the sidewalks and some of them the rout requirement and we'll be reworking the sidewalks okay so look like you also remove some pavement on the right side the right angle of the triangle in front of that that was removed moving this to yeah yeah that is correct um so we'll uh we'll do the uh drainage narrative lighting uh we'll work with your staff and we'll try to uh address all the ordinance requirement right now uh the existing lights out there is just uh CA light on one of the existing utility pole and a couple lights on on the buildings uh so we'll bring that to moderation and uh try to meet the ordinance uh traffic report um that is um we feel that uh the it's an existing site with the existing parking all over the place and as far as the access point so we feel that the way we have we work a parking lot and Define the area that uh a waiver should be requested for that just clarify on that point I guess part of the reason we didn't get testimony on how many spots there were before is because it was just basically a big open gravel a lot so is is that right I'm just looking to hear from my traffic conern that that is true when there's gravel you can't stripe it so there's no designated spaces is there a standard for determining how many That was supposed to represent based on an area I guess there could be a rule of thumb based on area but that doesn't take into account circulation aisles and it doesn't take to account how wide that gravel had spread and where the it would be difficult to calculate how many spaces were actually there if there was gravel and they were unstriped I guess inl of number of spaces it's just hard to understand even though we're losing surface area imper surface area overall are we doing more spots than it probably did before similar fewer comparable the important thing is the proposed meets the ordinance with this uh surface that they are putting down I I really if there were curb stops there I could count the number of curb stops for you know that type but without having designated spaces the reason I ask is not relative to the ordinance on the number of spots it's that they're asking for a waiver on a traffic study and if you were to say that the lot previously could have accommodated a comparable number of cars that might make it easier to imagine whether or not you would need a traffic study if you're saying there's no way they could have fit more than half of that many then it raises the question about whether we're creating an opportunity for more traffic the parking would be roughly similar but to uh from a traffic standpoint the building sizes aren't changing so uh the square foot isn't changing and in effect you would have the same square foot the same uh type tenant that could fit in those buildings so from a traffic standpoint to get waiver from that uh the size of the building doesn't change it's not necessarily based on the number of parking spaces okay but to get the what Jason said I mean it depends on the tenant too if you have somebody that's a hairdresser versus you know um just somebody does HVAC is you know not in the bu not in the office all day long and is out there's two different uses you have way more people going in and out for a hairdresser versus your HVAC yeah so it's really going to depend on your tenants and what's going to be going on there correct and Miss leany points this out in her her report that the office parking is actually one for every 250 square feet uh I think retail is one for every 200 so what I would propose to the board well and with regard to the uh traffic uh report we're also talking about permitted uses so it's assumed that the surrounding infrastructure in roadway can handle anything that's generated any traffic that's generated uh by the by those uses that are permitted by the ordinance um with regard to in the future how we handle the parking requirement I imagine my client would have to the applicant would have to go for a tency review before the code enforcement officer to make sure that they have the appropriate spaces I'm not sure how cranberry handles that type of matter I Would One have to come back before the board constantly for each tenant particularly if no particularly if it's a permitted use obviously um so I would like to maybe I'll have a conversation with about that as to what the protocol would be going forward I guess my my concern is I guess my concern is that you're right up against some of the most highly trafficked area in the town and you know you're going to have people going egress and Ingress out of your site and you know do we need to take that into account with a traffic study or not I I you know plus the you know I'll say the potential for the entire realignment of the circle there and whatever is going to happen whether they move Brickyard Road or they don't move I mean there's all kinds of stuff floating around sure that nothing permanent yet but I mean there may be a lot of factors that get played into this I mean brick may go away you might not even have access to that anymore that's right so I I don't know maybe Andrew can clarify that a little a little bit or shed any light to it the clarification here would be it's a very underutilized facility and anything that would reoccupy the same space certainly is going to generate more traffic than there is there now uh it is a busy area there's two roads coming together you have two frontages and those two frontages are County routes leading to a state highway uh which has been recognized as a high accident uh Circle um um so I I understand the concern that the board has of putting more new traffic in this area um that being said they're not increasing the size of the building an underutilized building is now being reoccupied with hopefully vibrant for them it would be successful businesses that uh will bring more people uh to the area but then the board does have that concern so it's really up to the board um if Technic from a traffic standpoint there's no additional square foot and the building is there it's they they could reoccupy but they do have these other improvements that they're being required to make based on uh the zoning officer so they're here and it's and and commendably this is unequivocally I would imagine a better outcome for a busy street that previously just had people going straight off the street into a spot and back out there's two defined locations that they come and go from yeah and I think I I make one clarification here um I I'd like to see something done nice with this property because it's been quite frankly in isore for the entire time that I've been in this town which is going on 45 years so and that was a resident there at one time so um so whatever you can do to make these improvements here I'm just worried about your your your own self getting in and out of there or your tenants and your you know your yourselves getting in and out of this property every day that nobody gets hurt or you know whatever that they can have good access in and out of that since it's s such a short distance so whatever if if if we don't think we need a traffic study that's fine but then somebody's going to have to just address why we're doing what we're doing and make sure that everybody's safe getting in and out of this property so I don't know how you want to address that but that's a reason sorry just to add on that I think the other question I I have is that if Brickyard Road if this project goes away and Brickyard Road is no longer a viable entrance is this traffic is this circulation plan feasible if one of the two entrances goes away and their only erisen in entrance and egress is at the uh off of South River Road or South Main Street the do has indicated significant improvements for the circle they're still working on that yeah again nothing has been finalized and it's in design phase and the applicant uh in my letter has been requested to go to the dot to find out more uh that would be something that they should look into directly with the do um should there be changes then the site plan the site layout the access would be different and I don't know if that requires an amendment here or the dot based on what they do and their improvements they have to uh justify the that they would be making to the site and again I don't know what the time frame is I don't know what the funding is there's many issues that go into that that you know is the project going to go ahead that's only the dot knows that and that is something that applicant would have to go directly to the do to find out yeah we certainly agree to that and it would be an amendment if if it were to conflict with our site plan but we we're also we would propose an alternate plan as well which we have to come up with we'll talk about that once we that dialogue with the uh with the dot a further dialogue can I ask a clarification question please just for myself we we have these two openings on on two different roads are we suggesting that the traffic is flowing in One Direction one Ingress one egress or is it both ways each what's happening I'll let the Apple can answer we can talk about that yeah let's let's let's do that uh you want to finish the waivers let's finish the waivers very quickly back that that's an important question and then we can go back to traffic and realignment of bricky Mr chair if I can say one thing about the waivers on the red is good right red is good um um on the uh on the traffic and the parking spaces the applicant could do a simple plan to just show what's there now I mean there are Stripes out there not in a lot of areas but you can also add stripes on a piece of paper to show how many spaces are usable out there as per the ordinance and then then we already have the second BL it's right in front of us here and you just can easily compare it and I think Jason's answer could be uh our question could be answered and the other board members would understand whether or not they're doing better in by spaces or less you know they're still they're still in I believe they're still conforming to the ordinance yeah but I mean to be clear my bias is I would be inclined not to put them through a traffic study but I was looking for a logical justification for that no I'm just looking for a simple plan that shows where all the spaces are now even if they're not really out there they're only on a piece of paper that's Engineers love doing paper right and uh and then this plan can compare it that's all that's that's accept pretty simple prepare that this is the previous one that they had okay okay nobody's got taking it understood and we have this yeah I do have this yep no well I can expect to that right now uh pretty quick and then we can put on paper too yeah yeah yeah absolutely so um just I need some directions uh should we continue and then we'll go back to yeah let's go drainage area map and Eis and which item are we on on that page yet uh so we down to item uh a b c d item 58 the drainage area map will be supplied because that would be part of the uh the range uh report uh item e uh item number 59 the Environ environmental impact statement we would like to get a waer on now the slite is already Disturbed we're not removing trees uh the building's already there as a matter of fact like we said before we are improving the situation out there and removing so we're not disturbing soils we're just removing and putting top soil and seeding so and the use is being contemplated already permitted by the ordinance and they uses yes so uh it's still offices same same number of tenants so uh we would like to get a waiver on the environment impact statement can can you oh sorry yeah can you just um repeat that that you're not removing trees yeah we're not removing any trees on side right now there's no trees oh there is no trees talking about planting some trees so we'll be planting certainly we put in top soils U and see and then be more loans yes I don't don't have a problem with the not providing environmental impact report I would just like to know whether there are any any special areas of concern I spills oil whatever that have ever happened on the site and if you could just let us know the only thing and again the only thing that I do have a concern about too is the is the existing septic systems that you have there yeah are they up to Snuff with with everything that's going on or or you know the answer is no the answer is no so is that is that is that part of the environmental concern then of the site because there there is no plans for septic out there sewer out in that area so that is corre it's more of a concern of functionality because today's septic systems are so much better than what they used to be right and it could be that the one out there is failing or maybe not um or it could have been that something was dumped in it who knows uh but um when they bought the property they would know whether or not there's any concerned areas on the site and they should have hopefully have had a test for the septic system done as part of the closing and that stuff could be provided to us okay can I ask can I ask a question it's just curiosity more than anything so when you do a residential closing and you test the septic the size of the septic and the size of the house have to conform how do you address that with with commercial properties well that is very difficult one with septic whether is a residential or commercial especially with septic that were built prior I would say to year 2000 the only way that I see is kind of like proving that the septic is still working out there if you didn't see water bubbling out of the setic or the we don't even know if there is a field to be honest with you TR the question is I think was more about like gallons per day usage and the size the only thing we could do we can get a septic expert to go there and to look at the tank and see how many gallons do you have any idea how many gallons yet we'll provide that information wouldn't that be part of your closing if you Clos on the property I'd like to handle it but because if your if your existing septic system you're you're going to increase the load of those buildings when they haven't been used for the last 15 years and your septic is going to fail that's going to cause a situation the truth is the middlex County Board of Health are the people that handle that okay so it's really not this board's jurisdiction though it's good information yeah more than anything I was just kind of curious just thinking about and different tenants their uses Rel we'll get an inspection rep okay we we got on this topic because we were talking about the environmental impact we trying to clear the applicant have having to worry about that and the septic was the only thing that made us rethink that so yes thank you you clarified that that's good so uh earth work calculations as uh I indicated before we are not moving dirt on site all we're doing is just removing some of the gravels and uh the pavement and the front area and bringing in top soil and Seed so there is no Earth movements um and we would like to get a w on that so that will conclude the uh check portion let's go back into the uh the circulation on site traffic circulation uh so the circulation on site um and as far as uh traffic so uh South L street is a County Road yes and uh I'm not sure the uh do restriction in that area help goes into uh South Main Street but we'll reach out to do uh RSI plan is and you can see it is Will Define the uh the in and out and we more than 100 or 150 ft away from the main intersection of PR and um and South Main Street so we have full movements on each one and it's up to the board to restrict some of the movements but the way we seeing is that we too far away from the intersection and we should not have any issues as far as all Movement we also uh away from the intersection of the gas station the gas station entrance is uh I would say 100 more than 100 ft away from the intersection that we are proposing or we are finding on site uh on the other side of Brickyard there is the only entrance now I see p Define is closer to the intersection so we further away we more east of that so um so with do and the county uh looking over uh our site plan the square foot AG of the building and that's what the trip generation will be basically uh based on this s footage of this building so we feel that uh a waiver for traffic should um should be granted permitted um and that's as far as the traffic and the circulations but it's up to the board if you want to restrict some of the movements outside you you want to talk about Brickyard realignment I was going to ask is there any concern about with the new model of people using this as a cut off to the corner of trying to go sort of going through there and is I'm having a hard time I don't think it's material change from the current situation is that a concern or or or Andrew is that a concern from a traffic standpoint have a couple turns on site makes it kind of difficult but I see that if you're do straight up like the way it is right now right now it's straight up so that's why we decided to do it that way is make to put to stop or to you know discourage people from making that okay so essentially you think it's less of a concern with the new design than it was okay thank you absolutely so now I'll become a traffic planner too um to iman's point earlier it almost appears to me because I travel we all do this intersection quite frequently if you made it one way and you entered on brickyard and there was only one way to get in and you came out on South Main because people coming out and turning left on Brickyard when folks are coming from South Main in 1:30 I think that's going to be dangerous don't you you follow me we we can uh I understand what you're saying but if you would like to restrict a left turn on Brickyard we can do that and what do you like people turning left out of there there's going to be oncoming traffic and it's already there's site limitations when you both entrances are close to that intersection okay I mean I don't know how you're going to either way you slice the baloney it's going to be you know I'm going to again that's what I'm going to try to not make the can do a traffic study but if there's ways we can calm that or prevent people from turning one way or another I don't if you I hear the board's concerns I don't think the trips generated by the site would be different based on the square foot but I do understand the concerns about queuing and what the queuing to the intersection would do and maybe it's worth getting some information on that at least to see if it would block show I don't even go anywhere near intersection I don't even go even though the trips from the site wouldn't change knowing how the site driveways would interact with any backing up from the circle because we all know the circle backs up even one car from the site even if it had the three uh uh work trucks trying to go to and from the site potentially uh could interact with that queue and uh that might be something that could be Quantified in a traffic report again it's it's not a comparison of what exists there to what it's going to be it's how this site will interact with the uh traffic uh at the circle is there queuing along South Bain and Brickyard each actually both since the warehouses have come in the warehouse you got both uh and if it Blocks Your driveways that would be a concern for you yeah not getting in or out well and and the challenge at that intersection is that you really have six points all come seven points all come together you have Northbound One Direction Northbound the other Southbound Southbound South Main North Main and brickyard and so the proposed realignment actually takes moves Brickyard away right to try to alleviate the the congestion at that Circle and the proposed the the viable solution right now is to put a traffic light on the heading towards the circle up up Upstream from the circle so that so that so that so that it allows cross traffic because right now it's heavy on Route 130 it's light on South and North Maine and so you cause congestion a lot of backup and so Brickyard just adds to that by being a third Road that's sort of coming to that Circle so the proposed alignment that the state came up with is actually moving Brickyard to to connect to South Main Street at some point in the future um and that the goal is that is one of the three roads that's hitting that Circle right so so the the root cause of the whole realignment is the congestion at the Circle that's not really a circle right so yeah if that helps and another point that might be counterintuitive confining the access to two points makes sense but when you have a wide openen access the trucks would be able to maybe extend itself out beyond the queue and the existing condition would allow the trucks to get maybe behind the queue now if you have a driveway that says this is the location you have to enter and exit and if the queue backs beyond that driveway then there may be an impact so the interaction of that queue and the driveway may be more important because of and I would consider defining the driveways as an improvement but for the purposes of access to the site it now limits what they could currently do from any of that wide open gravel which that that's not desirable but it does allow access to the site in a different way yeah would you conclude from all that okay you've heard a lot of information we're really trying to not make him do a traffic study here walking a fine line here Mr said that um am I right yeah right here he was he was mentioning that they bring in their trucks from Brickyard room right so that's like the desired road to come in from so we don't want to sort of create a pattern that is not there it doesn't fit their purpose so so that is the desired route is that correct okay you want something to be test torn in because he had I doesn't matter like what we bring our trucks honestly like it doesn't depends like where they're coming from really so there's no real preferred entrance okay EV it's wherever they sou I mean I'm I'm sort of where Mr Stewart is I I don't want to penalize the applicant for trying to improve a site that happens to be at a busy intersection right so I think I I I don't think this site has to solve the problem of the circle we're just trying to sort of help think ahead a little bit and make sure that you're not going to regret putting your your entrances and exits where you're putting right where they're at now because again I don't like where everybody just back out yeah anywhere yeah I mean that's like so that's that's that's that's a nightmare so that's an improvement I mean if you have two two spots that does improve the access to where people can come in and out of the site but you just have to be cognizant of of that at rush hour those those those intersections back up on both brickyard and and South Main the only consideration might be to move that exit all the way to the end of the property so that you you actually no sorry the the Main Street one move it further away from the intersection but uh but but again then you will have an issue with the if they if they do if they do put the road in that's fair you're not going to be perfectly aligned okay yeah we'll be on all I my profession what we have is suitable for uh because if you decided to elimate access and sending everybody to the and it's just you know you're making Awards do we want to continue going down your list here um because there's a couple of other things like setbacks and other things yeah I'd like to I just have one more question from Mr fanda so you went through that analysis of the um the one exit on 539 and how it interacts with the backup with the queuing from the uh Circle and would you conclude that that configuration makes makes it worse more likely to have an accident there with the backup or that it you know obviously makes it better than before because it was a free-for-all but um would you conclude that that shouldn't be used as an exit I I don't know that I would say it shouldn't be used as an exit I I think think with only two driveways it makes sense to allow them to distribute uh in and out from both roads it I think they may find that one driveway becomes very difficult to use I'm thinking Main Street is going to be very difficult to use in the afternoon uh but they still have the option of using the other driveway at that point and that and there may be something along the line that whatever tenant you have that you know is not opening up at 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock in the morning morning they open up later and there's different access points to close later past 4:30 5:00 or something like that where they're staging they're not trying to flow in and out during those times so there's a lot of factors that may play into that Jason you have something to you just I I I overall having heard all this think it's probably good as is for the reasons you guys all said two access I mean it's a bad situation two access points is going to give more optionality than one it's not their responsibility to solve or to predict the future of the circle um I think I was my original question was more predominantly based on procedure that I wanted there to be good precedent for us waving the traffic study uh and less about second guessing the access it's it's like I said a bad situation but it shouldn't be their that shouldn't be their penalty okay thank you so Mr chairman you wanted to go through the reports or um no I wanted to there there's still a number of items you have we have on our checklist here I think we're done with the checklist right no no there's a couple there's a couple more um item Four B it item three talks about the realignment of brick yard right we're not talking about item four item 4 B that's yeah uh we start with 4 a design setbacks well we're done with that one we didn't that's the uh 10 foot landscape setback from the from the roadway Frontage oh complies with the loading area runs to the property line so we're on B Mr chairman I'm sorry um we do not comply there that's the 10 foot depth uh behind the parking Bay right and uh so that is uh front yard strip so we do have uh the 10 foot setb setbacks for the parking lot Main Street um in this area here this is just a driveway uh we have the 10 foot more than 10 foot setback uh to the from the parking lot to the uh building number two uh again this is not a bar area uh because we do not have that the area that a little bit short on the tin but I believe it's uh I picked it up as 9 ft somewhere around here where you have the seven spaces behind building number one uh but again that's the the condition out there that's the ex condition what we could do is that we can shift everything up a little bit the issue with that we have a septic in this area right yeah so we would like to ask for a wer on and we don't know yeah the only thing the only and the only issue I do have is on your on your setbacks is that when you pave that one area that faces um to the right of your property you paved right up to the property line right when it was gravel there before so you PID Mr holder uh pointed that out I believe and we because we do have spes and the ordinance requirement is 24 we still have the two credit for the ab we will remove the two parking space so you give us a 10- foot buffer on that side then y okay all right that would be acceptable then and that will make sense too right eventually with the realignment of Brickyard you want to be around all that okay so we agree to that is that good with everybody okay um then we have item D same page the dve that's the alignment issue yeah and I believe I did touch base on that that when I talk about the actually that is the entrance which will be to the south of our proper the entrance that gas station is pretty much lined up with the our property l so it's it will be impossible to re realign to yeah okay now you have e testimony should be a private on pedestrian circulation I think you touched upon that as far as sidewalks on in and around the say you're going to have sidewalks around the buildings yeah so sidewalks is already around the building exist and they're going to be reconstructed in certain areas to meet the ab R reform uh I strongly believe that the county is going to ask for a sidewalk along Main Street I I would I would as we did with the other applicant up the street from you I strongly opposed putting a sidewalk on Main Street there I'd rather have a buffer with trees or something we did that with the storage facility the storage facility so I would not recommend putting a sidewalk there because nobody's going to be Crossing 130 to come to this interesting does the town have any dialog between the count yeah well I mean we we didn't we we I don't know what if how they worked that out with the storage facility because I remember there was a big and I I think it's ridiculous to put it have to put aside I'd rather see some kind of buffering of trees or something out at the property line than than a sidewalk that nobody's going to walk yeah Mr the only thing I was going to point out is there's an applicant in town that did we did not mandate a sidewalk but the county did and the applicant pushed back and the county said no we want a sidewalk so I we I don't think it's really up to us to say I think it's a county requirement they get pretty adamant about what happened with the storage fac did they have to put a sidewalk in no I don't know no I'm the engineer for the surgey that's right okay we uh about that we uh yes you're right you were right on with your uh m box yeah so proced let it go the county the county not yet no no no we we do have a review so the County right now they have uh they change staff and they have different ways of doing business where now the uh the invite through virtual meeting uh the professional from the town uh so Mr CER yeah everybody will be invited to the meeting and we will be discussing all so but the the county at the end uh and it's pretty uh they're pretty consistent with that is that they they listen to the town if the town says uh no we don't want a sidewalk then you all won with it so that's the reason well so we push for no sidewalk I mean that's just my that's just me I don't know how the rest of the board feels or engineer or yeah usually the do and the counties are requiring sidewalk they're going for pedestrian friendly however at this location it's a sidewalk to nowhere and if they have to provide a handicap ramp into the intersection of heightstown and Brickyard that just doesn't make sense no so but I do understand that the county is likely to push for it because that's their their just Mantra is well can't we tell them that we're going to plant more trees which is better you know instead of concrete y you know i' rather have a half do trees along there well I have no problem doing that I mean it makes sense where it makes sense this doesn't make sense so I mean why I'd rather have the green buffer between your buildings and the and the road than something that nobody is going to use and why have the expense I mean it it just doesn't make sense to me but that's that's just me I think um that you just testified that the that the county if they hear that the town doesn't want it they often don't you will definitely be invited to theal IM meeting so I mean um why not have it on the record that the town doesn't want it you can't mandate it but you can you can grant a a variance or a deviation for that right because it's required in the ordinance so you could if you I'm sorry it's a design a okay when we get to that when we get this all worked out that'll be part of the part of the language then we we are corre talking about land that doesn't exist yet right which is always fun they didn't they didn't they they they so Toto was very clear he wasn't looking for an approval tonight he was looking for input tonight which is fine it's like it's like more of a yeah it's like a little bit more of an more than informal but not totally you know so okay so we're good with that one um let's see curbing SE G now how how is this curbing going to work are we are you just going to put curving in where you need to put curving in or uh so uh the existing site right now for building around building number one it's all the doors flushed with the existing pavement so it will be impossible to put curbs there because the curb will be six in high than the door or you're going to have to rip the whole entire pavement on site open the S side for constru and then lower the size six inches and put the curve but we could do is that we can put some curving along the curve return coming from Main Street uh I'm not I don't think we can't will be able to do it on breakyard again because it's the pavement flush with be the back will be uh the building but we could do a long Main Street we can Define uh Cur the curb on the return I'm pretty sure the county will ask us to put curve along the uh their um edge of pavement or their along their Frontage uh we could do that uh in the area where is a parking lot in the front um in front of uh building two on on the south of building one uh we'll try to put a a curve but here again you know it's an existing parking lot and we don't want to disturb the pattern of drainage in the area we don't want to have all the water be running out and shooting out on the side here so now correct me if I'm wrong curb return I'm talking to our profession curbing it serves a number of purposes it serves the purpose of for cars and also pedestrians correct and it also controls drainage right so there's a number of things that curbing does now if the applicant's not going to put the curbing in certain areas does that with respect to pedestrian egress and egress out of the building should they put some kind of controlled striping to let people know where you know where to walk not to walk or you know some designation of where people shouldn't be driving if they're driving and if there's no curbing then if there leas is a line that people know where they can there is the delineation between the pavement and sidewalk right because there is sidewalk against the building okay so that helps all right right and maybe there should be some striping end can figure that out one thing I would asked for was a a safety island or two off uh Main Street so that we' have to remove that one parking space provide a landscaped Island so that that cars aren't coming out of their parking spaces directly adjacent to the people coming in off Main Street so things like that would be very helpful that could be partially curved then the curb could dive dive down into the pavement so it doesn't cause drainage problems or problems with access yep okay makes sense sure we agree comply um he's got loading areas now we're talking uh item six loading areas uh yeah so loading areas right now um and you heard talking about uh that's the area right now for tell what they can that's the area I would say uh right behind building one uh closer to Brick that's a loing area as exists right now and that's how we show on a plan and I understand that input offset for Green from Brickyard uh would not be there but um that's what they have out there and um so if you go along with that that will be required a design exception I believe or a variance design exception right why is the loading area so wide at 20 ft our ordinance only requires 15 do you have a special need for extra loading uh no we can put it back to 15 ft as the ordance i' like to pull it away from from if we can we don't want to have the trucks sitting there causing a f spot by the circle so my my my take on that is that we lose uh one parking space right next to the Loading and shift the loading more to the South closer to the building so so far now we lost four parking spaces so lose one spot going south yes they shift away from Brickyard yes clarify that because you don't have that much to lose before you're messing with the setback to the building oh there's a missing line there I see got it okay so we'll uh we P more I think he was also suggesting you gain it just by being five feet less wide is what he was saying yes yes so you can achieve that even without mov without losing the SP space so yeah I have that's fine don't lose the space 20 fet um in the middle but as you get closer it's actually less but we'll make it 15 and if we have to bring it closer to just be clear um from uh uh Brickyard will do that okay um entire section I which is number seven which is storage and disposal of waste um I guess you need to identify where where your you know recycling waste dump dumpsters are and everything and and we get kind of coo about you know making sure they're screened and they're not and you know how they're screened or they're boxed in and and all that kind of good stuff so I think you you just need to address that wherever you're going to have it that's okay we do now Landscaping I didn't see anybody having any problem with Landscaping but more is better than not but the one exception and it was in the fire department as well there's a by the loading area right uh and what I would suggest is you provide turning templates to make sure that a truck can access the site and also the fire Tru access uh through this um circulating through the site there's a there's a proposed tree if you look by the loading area uh it's it's right there the landscape PL it's right at the corner proposed it's proposed yes there's no Tre there's no Tre there's no trees there right now yeah we'll we'll uh we'll slide that we we slide three more to the west and can can I also just make clarification you have a tree on either side of the entrance that'll exist on will SL them more yeah or or require that they be a tree with a with a trunk you know the bottom line is we don't want some sort of like evergreen or something that's just right that's gonna block block The View yeah this is a shade tree I'm not good with my tree terminal after all the years we we have an approved list of plantings right you you have access to that we do okay perfect thank you now approve approved list of PL are you g to come up with a landscape plan and then who's gonna Liz are you going to look at the landscape plan or you got okay and and as was stated Imam stated we do have an approved list of trees that you can use um tree shrubs yeah yeah we'll uh we actually did the storage facility so we'll match and we'll bring it close to what we have for the solution good we'll do that so number nine kind of feeds back to um to drainage so will provide I guess you're you're going to be providing that and addressing that so um we don't need an Environ did we go through lighting did we pass lighting uh I did touch Bas on lighting that uh did I miss lighting oh I missed lighting I'm sorry will address that okay okay um did we agree they don't need an environmental impact I thought that was a yes I think no no we we said yes we said no they yes we said no yes we said no we confirmed not inconclusive like the Sal how do I get that backwards yes they do not need oh we're done the only item on Mr Ho's report is the realignment and uh how would the site be impacted by that so do any of our professionals want to weigh in with anything else because we're this is like a glorified DRC meeting and normally we would not do this but we're we we want to make sure you go away and we make this a better because the whole intersection up there is you know it's important is it important that it looks good and whatever we do it wants to look good because it's the Gateway of going into our town so that's why um anything we do and and I don't think unless you know I can't say for sure whatever the dot is going to do um but I don't think they're going to be taking your property away under condemnation I don't see the need to do that with what I'm hearing I can't I can't say that for sure though well no no no the point the point is understand the point is they're they're going to be making improvements to the to the site and um you know we want it to be permanent I can't guarantee what's going to happen in the future all we could do is hopefully hope for the best that they don't do anything and uh you know unless anybody's heard anything differently about no so again my suggestion is for them to directly to the dot that's the only way they can get information on their site that falls in our court absolutely yeah we'll do so it is probably worth saying that we anything that we've said about the project is just conjecture speculation speculation so understood acknowledged absolutely yeah absolutely Mr chairman I just want to say one comment about the all the checklist waivers I want to thank the board for helping me because it's unusual for an applicant to come in with so many checklist waivers usually I beat it out of them and they they actually do those items this this applicant wanted to wave them and I said fine let's see what the board thinks and now they know what you think so thank you very much agreed thank you okay um so what is just one more thing if if there's GNA be any wall signage that right that you provide W sign wall signage no no wall sign for any of your tenants we have a free stand we do have a free standing sign you have the free standing but are you going to have any W if we are we'll include it okay cly You're Gonna Want to have given yourself the ability to do all thank you for that com and next to drainage signs are a big deal around here so uh we'll account for that shrub signs and drainage so no yeah now agend so I guess our next our marching your marching orders are to come back with a plan that Embraces all of our suggestions tonight and then you'll work with our professionals you'll contact the do about what's going on with respect to the sidewalks along the road I don't know when that meeting will be held with the County um and I'm not in favor of you doing that I don't know if the rest of the board I don't think the rest of the board is Keen on doing that either so um if that comes up before your approval um then we can certainly weigh in on that and throw our two cents in we are now aware of your want on the sidewalks right and if we participate in those County meetings we'll let them know okay very good excellent I I would just like to add because it may have gotten lost in all of our detail that I think we're all very happy that you're there and improving the site and look forward to trying to help you get to the point where you can approve it and and uh you know have great success there so thank you thank you we appreciate your time and input this evening invaluable now how do we procedurally go from here do we is is this can this be carried yeah you can carry the um hearing to the next Mee I don't know are you do you have room on the agenda for the next time break ERS next I don't not even know what to um have no idea how long go gonna be you want to go till July I mean once everything's done it shouldn't be a long meeting is it possible to give Robin some sense of where we are in like like the end of next week and hopefully get I in order's going to be having a my tai in the middle of the ocean somewhere so so you're good luck in getting hold of her next week yeah we have the notice situation so hold on we okay we have the notice situation so I would say that it should be carried from meeting to meeting or to a date certain so I mean either it gets carried to the next meeting and you say well we're going to have to carry it again or you know if you know right now you're not going to be able to do this in um June then go for July you know I'd prefer June so does the board is the board adamant about us appearing before the county before we reappear here no because to me that's and of course the do response but I'd prefer Jun you can fit us on that's obviously your call but I would prefer Jun if you think you could have everything ready and we're and we could hear it and every you know the lack you listened to everything we said tonight and and uh I have no problem doing it in June if we have to have a little bit later days before the meeting right if you and again as as Sharon said if you can't come then you need to notice us or give us notice so then we can carry carry it to the July meeting without and I don't mean sorry to inter go ahead no please don't if if you know just keep in mind that plans should be in 10 days before the meeting so if you don't think you can make that now you might as well just say um Shar I always thought that was for the the initial meeting I I don't need to be argumentative on that point but if that's the board's policy I'm refined to comply with that that's fair enough that's fine yeah um rolling the dice June yeah we'll do our level best and if not we'll let you know immediately I mean within but I need to know when in June what's the June June 6 June 6 see you got an entire six days in June no so 10 days before Hing aside we we'll make that happen as well uh and if not we'll let Robin know you have a full three weeks site plan which could be enough yeah yep understood what's that get that's f c that's five weeks from now Frank oh that gives you five weeks from now well that gives you that gives you m Mr chair um do you would you I mean I know what probably your preferences but would it be almost a requirement that they speak to do before they come back or no that's gonna be a we'll do that anyway I would I would like for them to get some clarification if they can we know how quickly the dot works on stuff right you know so I mean if they make a good faith effort to go to the dot and can document that you've tried to do that and get I'm I'm all right with that yes as oppos to right but they just need to document that you know on such or such a date you know either email telephone whatever you know we tried to get a hold of the do and we'll keep the Professionals in the loop yes please do okay so motion so there should be a motion to table or what do we need to do motion carry do we need moved second anybody second I'll second I hi thank you again all right you're welcome thank you for coming in thank you I know you want to say something about the discussion item but let's wa clear we still have hey we weren't too bad for coming for coming in all willy Wily they were going in the direction of in the red so well I Hon he was discussion all right um we have one more item on the agenda tonight it's a discussion item and uh Mr fron is going to lead that just just very quick kind of just a general reminder um you know as part of our application process we often go to the site and do things and I think there's a there's a desire to help and to step in and things we need to check on things and um the best resources we have are Robin and Denise marabell and our professionals and so as a member of the plan board please don't represent the township or feel like you're you can go out and advocate for something and if Miss Marabella or miss too advises you to to not to please continue to not to um because it just we just have to be careful because some of these can go on for many years and it's important that we don't insert ourselves between two other parties on things so thank you people going to locations no not locations but two different stakeholders and different applications and putting ourselves as the township between an applicant and a third party stakeholder and it's just not yeah yeah so I won't say anymore but just just when in doubt ask Robin Robin Works closely with Denise we make sure that you know we're all compliant on things so I'll ask Sharon so where where do our boundaries stop and where they don't stop let's say for example we want to talk to Middle six County about the sidewalk do we have the authority to do that or should we work through the town to do that or to do that yeah I think that'd be best and then the on yeah I mean yeah I think that'd be the best way to do it you don't want to just go off on your own and start saying hi I'm here for the planning board I mean if everyone talked here we just did about the how you felt about the sidewalks I mean that was pretty much a direction to our engineer that if I that if we are invited that that would be the um feeling of the board so I would be okay with that you know but if if it's on a completely different issue that nobody's discussed at all and you just you know we have a we have an entire Board number one and then and we don't want to get in in the middle of what beyond what our Authority is either you know I mean some issues are Township issues as well so are you okay with what that explanation yeah I think that that works out fine because um sometimes we but then again we could work with the town though and work together with the town and go to some place to talk about something is that is that I think so as long as you um as long as we're you qualify that you are just one member of the board if we haven't discussed it all here you know and it's just you know I mean I I just feel like one board member shouldn't say I'm representing the whole Board of so the board doesn't know about it or hasn't discussed absolutely no that's that's that's very true no the because then you're just a concerned citizen at that point you're not you're not representing the board but I had one more item if people if if if any there's no issues on that are we good on that so far okay the the other issue um so miss Bon sort of pointed out to me that I chair the zoning committee which is that sort of cross functional group and she said she captured an action that I missed a couple weeks ago which was the looking at signs there were two things that came up from the meeting one was the turnpike facing signs about maybe we need a different standard for Turnpike facing signs and the other thing was there was a suggestion one of the engineers from the applicant gave about sort of drive by uh some sort of ratio about drive by and signs so she asked us to look at that so I just want to formally ask the the planning board if it's okay if we get our little zoning committee together look at those two issues because I think the feeling was that number one it seemed like we're holding them to a village standard for something that was going to be driven by it speed speed yeah yeah at speed at speed and and so it sounds like and I think what Miss ban anchored upon was one of the applicants said there's a rule of thumb that they can use for this and so she's like ah we should look at that rule of thumb as maybe another standard to put in our sign ordinance so if you guys I just want to get sort of formal concurrency you guys are so that's not in our sign ordinance it's not in our side ordinance and so what we find is we've been giving exceptions for things very close to the turnpike because we're holding them to kind of the village or or sort of very pedestrian level standards that don't apply to a driveby that only faces the turnpike because I do think there's a difference between what's allowed in the industrial Zone and what's allowed in the village but you're holding them to the regular industrial Zone and not necessarily that's I think that's yeah I think that's the latter so she just wanted us to as a committee to look at that and see if there's some Common Sense sort of Standards we can embed in the side doorn so I just want to confirm sort of verify that because I missed that as an action item for us till she called me on it a couple weeks ago but yeah just to be clear it it's you know I forget what this it's 100 square feet right now but we are routinely giving variances and it's sort of when it's a Turnpike you kind of 100 feet 150 feet you know square feet it's sort of like who knows and I think the Arie applicant came up with they said it's a rule of never seen it before but they came up with like a a um a formula and so I think that's what that um Miss Bond was suggesting that we look at and maybe incorporate that formula into our our our ordinance yeah so that would be the zoning committee is is it's myself it's someone from the environmental commission someone from the zoning board and I think this it l i I think I think there's like three or four people on it um oh and Sharon we were on so we well when we any case it was it was someone from environmental C someone from um zoning board me from planning board the idea was it's a little working committee where we can work out some of those so I just want to confirm and then we come back and basically say we did our research here's the idea and then and then it gets routed through whether it's an ordinance change or whatever it gets routed through the township mechanism but I just don't want to go too far before I confirm that that's that this planning board sort of endorsed that idea I don't have a problem I mean unfortunately we we created to sign ordinance and I think everybody that's come in we've given a relief so I don't even know why we even committed this I everybody that's come in has asked for relief from our side ordinance and we've granted it in the industrial in the industrial yes so you know if this helps maybe I don't know um I mean have we if we're making exceptions for everyone then that's the perfect reason to realize they yeah that I I think um if they if the majority of exceptions are on the turnpike then you know it's sort of like it swallows the rule and then it's not I mean we've granted relief on on buildings not on the turn bike so I mean I I just want to say I think it was my predecessor who came up with the standard but in any event I think it's not so wrong that people have to come before you and prove that they need the signage because they're so large do do you know what I'm saying so like you know if somebody because as I say if somebody comes in and they say you only allow 100 square feet I need 150 square feet and it's sort of like what do we okay you know and you kind of want them to have to prove that they need that extra 50 square feet so I don't think it's wrong to have a little bit of a a gatekeeper if that makes any sense but just because we could raise it to 200 and then everyone's going to come say we need 300 and it's Amazon one of the big big smile on the building so yeah but I wouldn't mind the turnpike exception if that you know if that cuts down the number of people getting asking for exceptions because now it's appropriate for I I think I go with Liz just said they're going to everybody's going to come in for an exception I I don't think there's one person that since I've been on this board since we passed the has not come in for an exception I mean I'm happy to not spend the time of the zoning committee and let them no no I no no I'm serious and letting letting the the ordinance stand and let people come in know that no but I I think I think we should investigate this if there's if there's I wanted to differentiate I mean because not everything is that we've granted variances for is facing the turnpike and so I think that but what my suggestion is especially things that aren't facing the turnpike that maybe this board wants to retain a certain level of oversight rather than people just come in and they get things out to right if that makes sense right well we'll look into it and we'll look in it see if there's some common sense things that might make sense given this a couple of the recent applications and it gives us something to give something we have a purpose we could argue about a sign right I I don't need more things to do but I'm happy to that's why I wanted to I think I'm I'm fine with that I mean if it helps if it helps clarify some things or gives us some guidance in addition to what we're already doing I think go for it yes so we'll get our little committee together and we'll come back at some point Thank you so thank you anything else by anybody for the evening I just wanted a motion to adjourn that's we have not wa we wait we haven't done the we haven't technically gone to oh that's right we haven't gotone into open sessions so yes for the public the public portion of the meeting tonight so I'm going to open it to the public for any comments questions on anything tonight hearing no comments and questions from the public now I will entertain Mr I'd like to move to a journ second all right all those in favor all right motion approved now that we're not in session I do have a question because it didn't need to be on the record whatever happened to the cranberry Pizza thing I heard like eight months ago they were going to come to us with something