today's April 4th it's 10: a.m. and we're going to begin the uh Township of cranberry shade Tre commission April meeting so uh statement of adequate notice pursuant to the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was sent to the press the Trenton Times and home News Tribune on January 5th 2024 posted on the bulletin board posted on the Township's website and sent to those who requested a copy of this notice and now I will move into roll call um Kathy East that's me I'm here Jessica irons Jackie Johnson here Bonnie Larson and Mary Lee Len appears to be absent at this time so we're beginning at 10 o' and um Community will begin with uh the the minutes of the November meeting will be um I'm sorry of the February meeting sorry excuse me of the February meeting will be available at the June meeting along with the minutes from this meeting so we don't have any minutes to approve today um uh so old business Community forestry management plan um volunteer hours um I put mine down and my hours include one and a half hours of CE which was uh webinar number two um what is uh I think it was called what is a tree removal replacement ordinance is that what it was called because what I'd like to start doing is in the minutes get down the titles of the number two was um Tree remov on replacement ordinance what qualifies what qualifies okay I'm just going to make a note of that because on our accreditation I noticed that they didn't give us credit for a lot of our New Jersey Forestry Association um webinars even though that's supposed to just go through and I talked to um Emily Faron about it she doesn't work for the state anymore she works for New Jersey Forestry Association um but she or maybe it's New Jersey shry Federation I can't remember but she couldn't help me but anyway so we have plenty of credits either way but I would like that to prevent that in the future so that way can go back and and tell the state so it was called I'm sorry tree replacement removal ordinance what qualifies um and I have one and a half hours for that um Jackie I have yeah but you have more hours than that oh I do but I have but they're not counter all up yet I probably have 30 hours between the last meeting um but only the one and a half CE I think was there another webinar I'm forgetting that we took I think that was it just the one and two and I missed number one but I plan to take number three just the same okay sorry Jackie I um I have 12 hours of Total uh plus today meaning yes plus today okay today um I have four I guess three I have three three CE hours which is included in the 12 for no I didn't include that in the okay so you have a total of 15 plus today and then three of those are CE and do you need the title the um the first one was um you know I'll go back and look it up since we're doing this since I'm going to take the third webinar and I received an email with the other two I I'll but that's just I'm going to put webinars um one and two and I did number one Bonnie seven seven seven total and three and three CES that's one and two and remember that includes okay um Jessica yeah I have 12 hours mhm three CE I took the um is the chainsaw safety force with uh with recers and it's wow like I up the forms for that and it should be forwarded yep it should be okay so that was the Rucker chainsaw safety course and that okay and that was two hours three three I'm sorry three oh I yes I'm putting number two I'm sorry Ruckus we arm okay thank you oh yeah here it is you can it um sorry for the small typ but it has the course code and date for your course yes I did I haven't received any any information on anymore I for a couple years March 21st okay 32124 that's good enough I think 320 SP on it okay thank you Jackie sweating okay 32124 okay um so that's our volunteer hours and and are continuing ed to so just to repeat um Jackie 15 three of which are CE plus today of course Bonnie seven three of which are CE Jackie 12 three of which are CE Jessica Jessica sorry was Jackie just 12 hours total including 3ce and then plus today's meeting which is we all add add on three CE are in addition to so you have 15 then because they when you report your volunteer hours that includes what time you spent for the CE but then we we um take a a subgroup of the CE to to we break that out so it's you have 15 plus 15 plus three including including the three okay so you and Jackie are exactly the same okay tree removal replacement ordinance now Denise had said she was coming downstairs um for this uh and maybe she's watching on YouTube and she'll come down but in the meantime I'm going to just jump to the appendices and the applica well actually I'm not going to jump we're going to do appendices application and then approval so it's been determined that the appendices don't have to actually be part of the ordinance meeting I mean they are part of the ordinance but they will be referred to in the ordinance and they'll be available on our website as they you know would be anyway but the G that gives us the fluid to update them because things are changing so quickly Jackie and I met yesterday and we want to reformat the whole tree list it's too complicated no one should be planting in the tree strips anyway so we don't need directions for that because only shade tree can plant in the or or they they'll be Consulting us putting a tree in there so it really just applies to really small medium and llarge in what works and we're looking at other um Township to see what they include we're including things like Jackie um and this is specifically the recommended trees to plant list Jackie also Incorporated several trees that were discussed at the shade tree commission uh Shader Federation webinar including um oh my gosh Yellowwood um which actually serves as a good Street tree as well but also a good tree to plant and Yellowwood a Yellowwood tree has been selected by the the small group that's doing the memory Tree in milstone park is their first choice for the memory tree is a yellow wood tree um so um you'll have to um it's a native it's North American Native and there's you know strong recommendations not to exclusively do North American natives but you know Mid-Atlantic Natives and then other trees that will do well right now they're saying that Arizon is more is closer to Richmond and five 10 years it's going to be closer to Georgia I hope that's not true um but you know we it's a different zone now in terms of planting uh I also want to point out in terms of the the how important or how timely an updated recommended tree list is is because people are becoming more conscious we're about to pass an ordinance that says if you take so many trees down over so much time at these size you have to replace them they need a guideline to use um and also um there's in a new initiative there's a library program on Sunday and I don't know the actual name but it's a New Jersey sorry a National Wildlife Federation backyard habitat cranberry certification program um where individual backyards get certified by National Wildlife Federation it goes into um the database and we can uh I don't know if it gives us Grand opportunities but it does in the sense that it will add to our sustainable points when we reup for our sustain our New Jersey sustainable certification as well as educate people about the value of planting na natives leaving the leaves that kind of thing it's a very Sim it's very similar to um River friendly yards which is a certification by um The Watershed Institute uh it takes five minutes um anyway so this when people um are looking to plant trees that are sustainable in this current climate and Zone you know they'll they'll have that recommended tree list so Jackie and are going to revamp it in the sense that anything that's there's a few also a few of the trees now have become invasive that are on there um Jackie also has updated and we're going to take another look at that and we'll be doing this very soon because we want these available by the time the ordinance goes through assuming it pass well because it's going to move forward and so Jackie also do you want to talk about the um the additions that you made you can just review that and everyone's aware yeah and before I do that it um also with the tree list I also looked at um our recent tree inventory yes the arborist um suggested a number of trees uh for us to try to add so we have a better diversity of trees in town so we want yes and I forgot to mention that's key that's key because we're going to be using that as a guideline right so um this is just for our do not plant list Kathy and I had worked on this uh recently well and uh anticipating the um New Jersey uh the government um have coming out with uh invasive lists um and ordinance so that nurseries wouldn't sell uh plants and trees that are on that that are invasive and uh it was passed but then it got backtracked by it was vetoed right by the governor vetoed by the government governor for uh a misunderstanding so uh anyway we H we uh have what we had worked on and um to just to update what we have currently uh and we added a couple of Honeysuckle and uh Wisteria I think to the our regular list but I I think we also took off one of the trees that we took off um querkus uh bolor wait is that right no that's I'm sorry we took off we took off pinoke did because [Music] um uh it's actually a very good tree it just its habit is for the lower branches to die over time and um so but that aside it's it's just it's a quality tree and it grows well in the midlantic that fine that you see covering all the bushes and trees when you're driving on different roads there's more than one well there's many and there's new ones mile a minute has shown up yeah mile a minute yeah yeah well the purpose of this though is is to let to just have a list of plants that are readily available well people could buy in the nurseries right now or their friends might okay share a plant with them uh but once the New Jersey like the government comes out with the re yeah I I it was the problem was something like um it had to come from the D or something I don't know they had they're working with I don't remember exactly some technicality and it wasn't that Murphy was against it just doing it the way that it was being done but I can't explain the the process but um so we'll finalize this and see if any other evil uh we do have Japanese not weed on here I don't that maybe well also some places just some things aren't for sale anymore right they're that's which is which is great yeah um but and the only question I have is I'm not sure I know the laner japanica is the honeysuckle vine but I'm not sure if the laner Mai and morai if those are shrubs or not but we'll we'll check that before we make the list because we're still going to separate them by grass Vines shrubs and trees so people are aware um any comments on the do not plant list anything that is uh should definitely be added um this a point of information on both on both of those lists appendix a and appendix B that's corre correct that in the draft that was distributed um those are included in whole and the draft ordinance well do you want me to wait no no no no it's fine it's fine it's perfect timing the yes they are included those are the old there're the UN un unupdated versions because we have just updated the Do Not plant and we're working on the recommended tree and they will not be attached to the ordinance when it goes P but they will be referred to in the ordinance and because they're part of the ordinance like consults or uh reference these points I think that gives them more strength so the thing is we're not going to add into the ordinance we're gonna say see chry website because if you want to change the Do Not plant list down the road then we can just change it on the website we don't have to reintroduce reopt or that takes you know mon of work to do that's that was my question just because in the current or well the most recent version that we have of this they were included as whole so that won't be yeah a subsequent question that came up after the work session in the gorgo was how how can we have fluidity with those docks because things are changing so quickly and we're going to do a good update and it's going to be solid but things do change quickly and you know um and so we might need to make some adjustments and we wanted to do that without having to pass another ordinance another another point of information relating to that is our um when those when we amend those can we amend them within the body of this commission since we are oh yes we have authority to issue ordinances we don't have to yeah the township committee doesn't have to go through no Bush list okay no and I also recommend that when we update them that we put the date that we update them you know the last most would have re revised or whatever updated or revised so that it's really clear when it was updated to everyone and we'll get on and Jack and I intend to really get that together uh so that they're available on the website um and that just brings me to and unless there's any questions I have one yes nor oh my goodness don't Where do I get started let me get back to you on that is it terrible well it it's has all these little uh seed samas samas yeah the samas and so they go all over the place and it has it has new it has no value and its root system uh affects everything else that grows around it and I'll talk to you more about that after because I have personal experience with Norway Maples and it's not pleasant um regarding does anyone have anything that's about appendix well I guess I'm still going to call them appendixes because that's um a a and b because I want to move on to C but just with appendix B do not plant list and we don't currently have it labeled as appendix B and understanding that there may be a different list coming from the state or additional background but currently just out further information it might be helpful for residents since this is posted on our website to explain that these are commonly available why why why there why do not pled and just that this is not an exhaustive list of all the invasives right well I think what we'll do is include a reference commonly these are problematic yes an explanation about why it's do not plant why are these there as opposed to like a longer list of like a hundred and I which we don't want no I don't think we do but we can also put if they're interested we can give them a reference if you'd like to you know look at more here's go to the njc uh site or whatever but I think it's important and I've seen this on other websites why is there is this do not plant list what does that mean just a little background what it means for homeowners exactly I think that's great thank you um appendix well I go do you have something else I was gonna ask appendix C yes appendix C which I'm looking at you because I'm hoping that um because you've worked youve been our website um uh resource that you would be willing to um come up with the references for that we're not going to write how to plant a tree and and and reinvent all of that we're going to refer them to the most and maybe it's just the arbit tree Foundation we certainly we how to plant a tree is is there are references there now we and we reviewed them I think we did this what like four years ago now Jessica or something it's been a while if you can look at those again and see if they're valid and then we will include those just so they're updated by the time the ordinance passes um I did print out what we have currently posted um and um we have the tree owners manual USDA we have the tree pruning guide USDA and we have um and then we have the arbor Dave foundation planting gu out a plant yeah because the and we can even break those up into um Tree Care and but the main thing is that they have a few references or one how to plant a proper a trade I that would be the question do do we want them only to have one maybe um and then are these the three yeah and I'm happy to work good yeah they are good but it is also a lot it is a lot so I'd like to I'd be happy to meet with you on that because maybe you want two tabs and one is the how to plant the tree and the other one is all the tree care stuff so that it's a little bit more clear if that makes sense does that make sense and then is this in terms of the timeline is this something that we would be considering in our next meeting we do it in between and then it will be looked at at the next meeting had a work session uh well we could have a work session everyone could be about or Jessica and I could get together in terms of for in terms of like formal adoption it would be at next meeting um I don't think there needs to be formal adoption because you're really just updating what you've already done on the website and just maybe adding another tab or um so I don't I think that may be a COR that I would have if it's part of if it's referenced in in an ordinance does it also need to be adopted in form of no in a formal way no but we we'll bring you know hopefully we could get it done by the June meeting and then we'd say these are the references and because Jackie and I say well this is plant list here's our commit a tree list and you'll say these are the two best references for how to plant a tree and we've moved the tree care into you know another tab with Tree Care and then when we do some website stuff who do we send that to oh Matt Matt Matt crane crane thank you yeah okay is he at um what department is he in thank okay great mcraine Finance thank you anything else on the appendices anybody which I'm still calling appendices but I what shall I call them yeah okay and that is gonna oh so then so then them excellent that's so much easier thank you so with the tab would say um ordinance appendix a ordinance appendix B that kind of thing ordinance appendix descri according the ordinance which is um okay recommended trees do not plant list yep and how yeah or how to plant a tree because I think there's tree the model is is specifically how to plant a tree Le they know although most people will be paying someone else to do that but it's important for them to know um okay so now that um it's we're on to approval of the ordinance did everyone have time to look at the current draft which was only a few changes [Music] from the draft that we started with at the last meeting what is the the title um I mean what is the number oh oh I'm sorry so it's chapter 131 that's how we refer to it chapter 131 okay there was a there is a May if I have question there's um a section one in the listed in the second I guess it's the second line after the title um section one I'm wondering if that's the typo the recital contained in the forgoing that because section one purpose is listed underneath or if it's I guess also more broadly more significantly what is the there's a forgoing preamble that isin so is section one this is what is being changed added deleted um and so section one Rec contained in the for Incorporated here asul that's just saying going into the code language putting in the got it thank you and I have a quick question the existing ordinance that had to have a few changes you took care yeah be done at the same it'll be done at the same time okay okay um and uh okay um I don't have any questions at the moment does anybody else have any questions before I call for a vote I do I don't know if there questions or comments it's not I guess one my first question would be to explain what the process is here because um I have it's not clear to me that it has not been clear to me as I've been told that we don't need to vote the vote of Shay tree is not required so it's not clear to me what our role is here the role is to put the ordinance forth to the township committee so basically you're taking a Str you don't you don't have any really V power as the shade Tre necessarily you're not voting the ordinance into the code only the TC can do that so basically what Kathy's doing is saying okay this is what we're bringing forth to the TC are you comfortable but even if you aren't comfortable with it I'm not saying you would do this but the TC still could take this draft and make it that's just how government works right so um but I think you wanted everyone last time we met at the work session we wanted everyone on the committee to sit at the same time on the commission and say okay yeah this is what we're giving to the TC we're good with it so I think she's just really taking a strong what it is and it's it's recorded in the minutes too and so you know so and that's what we're doing and we have a quorum so we can do it so my position um on this has been that if we could have more time from the state that we would benefit from taking that time um realizing that the timing of this process is not of our making here in and cranberry but we have been getting guidance from the state as you said up until the 12th hour including the final third of three webinars that addresses fees and enforcement which is the part of the ordinance that is currently missing right but we what we do have is Township committee input and they were very clear about no fees no enforcement now I wonder if how this could happen so there's public comment at the second reading okay at that time either as a citizen or a shade tree can I ask the township so it goes in the minutes there's a record that says this can this will can this can be Revisited if it's determined that without uh the permit um any fees to sustain planting trees and I'll explain that in a second or uh enforcement uh we feel that it's not going to work we we can come back to the township at some point I mean it seemed like I mean I don't mean next year you certainly comment at the Mee but that's a given any committee can change at any time they can introduce and adopt whenever they chose okay okay now the D to you but you can't change this you can't make it less stringent than this well I don't think we want to do they could at any time decide oh yeah we missed something I we just did it with a storm water ordinance where they realized they missed something on the planning board side and it was a quick fix and we reintroduced made that Qui okay that is given you can say it in minutes if you want but that is given and the committe not going to sit up there and yes we are committing future committees I understand because they of course because they might to be okay my second question is what's the best way for us to now educate and let the planning board know about this because really quick this affects every property in Cranberry so if there's okay so you took care of it okay because what we want them to be what see we've been talking about residents a lot we haven't been talking about the other properties in town I know most of the available properties are developed already I'm not laughing about that but when someone comes in to develop something they will if they take down so many trees of so many dbh they have to replace them on that property or work it out to G give us the give the township the trees so that's where it's really going to come into play because this is the law on the books and when you coming in to do a project you check all the permits you check all the ordinances and you make sure that and the plan is up to the planning board to make sure that they're um will be on the and it'll be on the checklist and that's going to make I mean it's it's um once it's aded once it's adopted of course and all this is once it's adopted um um I had one of go ahead seminar and this is their so now the DP decides six months from now we forgot something then we have have to go through introduction and adoption again and we'll have to change it but prolonging this isn't really well I don't think it will get us any a more stringent um and and also it more open now someone does do something that you don't have something and also could you explain the the way the fees work because it's complicated for any fees of any kind to come to Cranberry so we doce violation someone to that's how it works that's why we don't pay W to have our coures they get they get the money so if we if in the future another Township committee agrees to permitting you know having the administration available or the the clerical help available to do the permit is different we that that money could go to Shay Tre for I mean for I mean not for trees for tree planting in town okay that's I just want to so that would only be if there's a permit fee anything else fine violation anything that goes to the court so my concern is that this ordinance as currently written with the exception of the application process and the clarification of definitions which is fantastic and but in general it seems to me that it is a step back in protecting the trees in Cranberry the only enforcement that we currently have in place please go the this is my reading of our current ordinance is that there is a fee for violation of up to 1,500 per occurrence the fee that we list here or F the penalty so it would go through PL is $350 for treat and there's no other enforcement in place we are guiding we are asking land owners to replace treaties but there is nothing there to enforce that that happens there are no consequences right and this was this was discussed at length at the webinars I've attended and that is that is an ongoing problem and I'm not sure and maybe the state will come back and address it by saying enforcement has to be part of the ordinance but they don't know the township doesn't back it um probably never the state will never tell to be because unless they're paying for the staff at every Municipal level they can't that they suggest it they're not real man it um and again we're going to see because if we're not if we're talking about one or two people who come to us and actually comply great if we find out one or two people aren't complying we look at it but it's still only one or two people we're not going to have 100 people who don't comply and we have to course that's the bottom line so we're not looking to hire someone that's not going to have the work we're looking to see first how many violations there actually would be and I think you're going to be surprised that it's not going to be many and the we have in place right now is much weaker than this we right we don't enforce and also it doesn't cover private property this does so it's definitely a huge leap ahead I mean and this isn't just the right of way which you already have authority over have had all along this now yes we don't exactly have authority because we don't have enforcement but we have a law in place and generally when arborists are hired to um take down trees because we get calls about this they want to know what's the permitting process well we don't have one but you have to fill out an application and that arborist is on going to work with that LTE is going to work with the omers probably on both fronts taking care of the tree removal and then they're going to move ahead with tree replacement as required by the the table right now we have no um there is no law or an ordinance in place about um all the other properties in town other than public works this covers that now when we were at the working session I tried to make it clear that yes I see this process as a huge step forward to have something and to capture that data but you know enacting something like this I think it would be really important to make sure that we are clear with the township committee that this is a first step and that is Our intention to monitor the applications that are coming in as well as continuing guidance from the state which is not complete even at this time yeah and and the big and that and that we and I I would encourage us to even think about a specific date for review or a specific date by which we would be reporting back to the township committee on our findings oh sure I would suggest we do it on an annual basis I mean once it's enforced but with relation to this ordinance and with relation to their consideration of this ordinance you you you can but once again you can have a different TC next year so whatever you're telling this TC could change next year that's all I'm saying yeah you can communicate to them you can make it clear to them I'm not telling you not to what I'm telling this think about this you could have a different CC next year and they could be starting to think about this differently either we're fine with how it is or we're not fine with how it is or thank you for your comments but we're not going to undo it or so every year could be a different committee you can't bind this committee a future committee by this commit can so you can you can express to them this is annual and I think they understand that they will understand that you know when I explain to them had to change to make it for they don't even Barber knows that knows that but the rest of Comm doesn't yet know that it extends to private property and they were very much against that but there is no choice in that which which which is which is the thing that really held us up too we didn't even know that until you know recently I do question the degree to which the township committee has actually discussed this because they had very different conception of what was actually possible that question of is it private property or not didn't want it to be possible they didn't want to deal with private property right I'd like to get in on this but that was the they did not want to deal wither with respect I watched that meeting and I did not come away with that sense definitely not consensus but I wouldn't say that a majority were opposed to the they want wanted more information and something that I came away with from that is that there really isn't a lot of clarity about even what the current process is what they and they were asking good questions like in essence you know how how is this changing what we're currently doing and so I I have communication with each Committee Member outside of the meeting and I can tell you it was not their intention to do private property they did not want to address that they wanted to do right property that's not how it's go and that have been our understanding prior to the last working meeting as well so but I'm saying that's a very different conversation true but this this is where we are now to be told and they're to understand all what I'm trying to say is to to make it easier for them to swallow that um is to you know do it the way doing it assess it in a year and see if there was any issues and I honestly don't think you're going to find there's a lot of violation I think that you're going to educate people and they're going to understand also understand there's an exception in here there's that exemption where people can take down their trees right so many within that 3 to five year period whatever that is um in one two and three C they are permitted to do that and there was the reason right we checked with the D and they said we put that reason in we put it that wording in because we're not trying to be punitive and we're not trying to tell people what to do with their property they want to put a pool in they want to put in they want to putet in and they need to take a tree or two down in that category three they and we're not making them do anything and so I you're going to find any violations unless we get someone who wants to clear their entire property I think the question I would have is is that those exemptions might actually be too broad because what they're trying to do in in allowing that level of exemption is to kind of set the floor with the understanding that there is a wide variety of townships within New Jersey in terms of what they already have in the books what they would be able or willing to enforce um but it does I am I am concerned that those exemptions are so broad that you can when we went through in the working session we were just working through like what could you remove on Main Street you could actually remove quite a bit of the the tree canopy just through those exemptions not in the right only in the back yeah first of all they can't remove any trees in the right of way without our permission period any trees in the Parks or any trees on the street I I would I would like to say something too um the whole purpose of this ordinance was because of the storm water initiative um and they are recognized in the importance of trees with storm water with the kind of storms we're having right now which we just had past couple of days the trees you know are very important they absorb a lot of water some more than others they hold the roots in place and you know they clean that help us keep the air clean there's there's numerous things which is why our we want to have a canopy at least 30% which we don't but meanwhile with this ordinance the way it is now we are allowing homeowners to remove the tree in category one two or three well this is in category three they can remove a tree with a circumference this large and um I had talked to Kathy yesterday at asking that's 33 well this 32 you know I I took an inch off of it um but I asked Kathy to consider only allowing them in category one the homeowners without some intervention from us to to educate them about the importance of this tree and uh I feel like we could the first session the work session we had with the Township Board was February 26th at that time we walked at putting it in the homeowner's property too you know we'd like to have some the homeowners consider keeping their trees instead of just taking them down for one reason or another we wanted to be able to encourage but we didn't know how we could do that with someone's property but then when we had the New Jersey assoc Association of Planning and Zoning administrators in conjunction with the New Jersey tree Federation after getting input from town from Sha Tre commissions decided to have three webinar series and the first one was on March 5th and they talked about the word and in March 19th they had the second one which um talked about what qualifies for and that's when we found out we had to include the homeowners you know private properties that was March 19th it was the first one it was the first one because I asked question okay it was the first one all right so March 5th March 5th then is when we found out um um and that was you know shortly after we met with the township so when you did the revision you included the homeowner's private property I shouldn't use that term all but there's still one more um webinar on April 9th which is next Tuesday and I believe we need a little more time four to six weeks at the most to to make a able ordinance that reflects cranberry's appreciation for our treats and I I understand your need and your concern about it's not going to make a difference but I feel strongly uh about this um I feel like the shade tree commission over the years we've had a lot of um continuing and courses to understand you know about the trees and how the biology is changing or they're learning more and the Eco effects on trees with the climate changing like Kathy talked about the the um tree inventory that we have there's a lot of trees with the the climate change that are more suitable from further south that didn't fit in our Zone in fact the Zone has changed for our area so it's not you know I mean it's science we're following science and I don't see why we're getting pushed to accept this today and that's my two cents well you all feel the way you feel about the ordinance but I don't think it's going to change unless my TC ask me to change and make it stricter so but that's up to you guys you can talk about this at another meeting and another meeting and another meeting and not get it done my engineer did ask because the point is is for stor Water Management we have deadlines for stor water management and so we can keep ping it off and not introdu and adopt it that's that's fine I'm just not sure more time more time and more time you can keep commenting on it but it's the same thing with the TC at some point it has to come to a straw hole or a boat a decision has to be made and has to be done I appreciate that you know you I appreciate that but I want the the um Township Board to understand that we're not all recommending this ordinance as it is with our background period Denise we'll we'll share we'll share that certainly certainly a straw poll I me too bad we don't have five here today but these exemptions I mean the D understands it's for storm water they still those exemptions were a base they've made clear that individual townships can make it St can make it stricter based the okay with that not sure why're not the D is under a directive to get townships across New Jersey in all their vast variety to adopt tree protection ordinances that extend to private property that's a huge ask and I understand why they put a low bar in the webinars that we've had access to the models that are being presented to us are much more rigorous well we also have to answer to Urban and Community forestry and our own management plan which has us moving forward in protecting right yeah I'm I'm not sure how passing this ordinance isn't moving us forward I I really feel I mean one one other work session that was that was just Barbara Rogers and I and then Denise I think on speaker phone or via email we looked at all the exemptions very carefully and then also included the Farmland uh uh Farmland preservation because that wasn't included um I don't think just based on my limited experience that they're so broad I mean I don't think it's our job to tell nurseries and garden centers how to run their nurseries and garden centers I mean as long as they're not planting invasives and I really feel like our what we should be putting our energy into now um because the township will not accept a more stringent ordinance is to educate the public and educate the township committee as well they wouldn't be opposed to us doing a presentation about this is what the new ordinance means and that would go on you know whenever not any um so that uh as well as um to your point earlier having Joe right come in and talk about the about the storm water management and how it all works in and native trees you know I do still have on my list to call him to do a public program um a tree walk uh you know just to educate the public [Music] um as I've been getting tree inquiries I've told them that there is an ordinance in the pipeline that will require them depending on the numbers of trees and the size to place to uh plant replacement trees and any direct contact I have with residents I always encourage them if they have if they're taking that tree to and in most cases they're already wanting to do that and wanting to look at the recommended tree list to see what to plant anyway that's all I have to say you guys Denise I would disagree I feel like I have had one working session to review the actual test of something that was going to be moving to the township committee for consideration one working meeting and it was the first working meeting where we had clarification on a really important fact which is that this extends to private property and we don't have a choice about that right but my point is we we introduce and adopt ordinances that are even more stringent than this and at some point you got to just make a decision if your decision is you're not ready to present it to the CC we won't present to the TC but I I don't know what's going to change between now and when do I guess that's my question what would change in the ordinance between now and the future time I mean I know there's a webinar next week and I intend to attend um there's been nothing to do about the state's very slow roll out of education but um we have been working with the final model ordinance since November this is April we asked for additional working sessions following November and we didn't have couldn't we didn't have one in in December we had one in January and it was cancelled because we hadn't had a reor yeah so if you I'm not I'm not clear what we would work on at the next work session when we've work through every item on like I do have questions about some of this for example um the the issue of license tree expert um making the hazard tree determinations it is currently listed line by line in and this is section 131 section two definitions and then Hazard tree how that's defined are you looking are you looking at Denise's and soorry what yes and in absolutely absolutely and there was a comment that the EP had that municipalities may choose to require a licensed tree expert to make all Hazard tree determination which is what we're doing but not in every case we make it through one through one and two um five was already added but then three and four that is not required three I I'm not I it seems to me it would be saying that it's not consistent because we did add LTE um and on our application that Jackie and I were worked on yesterday our prototype the app the LTE has to put their name and I think license number right but in this section here um the original one required it just for hazard trees but then they have specific different situations well right then there's and that's normal and so instead of just leaving it up here is what Jessica is saying it was eliminated for obstructions view of the traffic yeah because you don't needt for that that we discussed that at the work session well I that's where I'm not I've had you know the tree instead of being allowed to be removed considered a hazardous tree maybe all it needs is to be pruned you know sometimes well I think that would be taken into consideration too that's why you know why take the LTE out of that plus this one here number four uh is causing obvious damage to structures you know so well well who's going to declare that you know someone can say that the engineer but D but a license it doesn't say that here it the homeowner can just I mean every SLE I'm not clear well it's recommended it just seems to me the e your approach to this would be to amend the first line where it says Hazard tree is a tree or limbs thereof that meet one or more of the criteria below and to say comma as determined by a certified Arborist or licensed tree expert instead of dealing with it and just have that apply to each of those those examples which was the original one from and then five you know take it out what and they took it out I don't know what you're saying either it was the what what Jessica just said in D where it talks about the hazard tree limbs um that last sentence that she said um using a LT was in the original D ERS there was yeah five different scenarios in the um that the final model ordinance the model ordinance yeah there are five different scenarios and the fifth exemptions no talking definitions of sorry okay how Hazard tree is defined sorry it's definitions no I have I'm looking at the original ordinance because one way be clear definitions C in definition C well it's in definition C but also yes there are five missing missing three and four do not currently fall under being required to have a determin determination made by a certified Arborist or licensed tree expert but it never did it never did and we when we discussed it at a couple of work sessions we said that it's one of those things you don't need the LTE because you know the Department of Public Works would be looking at maybe the engineers looked at it and it's just it's clear what the the problem is you don't need an l l to um qualify the tree if it's a printing issue or if it's an issue of tree roots it seems to me that it would benefit from an AR and we did discuss this I've looked at it again well it says we're pruning if attempts have not been effective because we're now we're talking about taking the tree down because that's what this is about tree removal tree replacement and pruning has not been effective for the various obstruction according to his opinion see this is this according to the police who see there's an obstruction or there's been an accident or the resident I mean it depends on when it comes up but it see how it comes up it seems to me that if we have access to a licensed tree expert that would be a really good use of them is to take a look at how trees are actually affecting foundations and sidewalks it's not something is not works for us have to and how many of those situations are there that's what we're going to find out when this are it's this going to have to go through an application process if it's handled by yes the township or the engineer if if it if it falls into the various categories and you haven't removed many first of all if it's a street tree it's under shade tree Authority period it does you know so this is a tree that would I mean it seems somewhat unlikely to me that a tree that is up on someone's property is obstructing if you of traffic or in some way one of the I mean generally this is a street tree and that's I mean that's been our experience and also in planting Street trees what hadn't been done prior um was Jackie and I always measure so that there is not a future obstruction of that and that's something else that is considered but that's all right of way right of way does not apply to many of the neighborhoods in Cranberry because it's considered like yeah and those trees wouldn't be obstructing the view of tra because they're well off well off the road I I just don't see why that shouldn't be under the prview of an arbor licens tree expert and my recommendation would be to make each of those scenarios I mean I just I took another look at it we discussed it at the the last working group meeting but when I because it has nothing to do with the actual health of the tree structures building foundations oh I'm I'm still on three where are you now okay number four if you look at causing obvious damage to structures that for example is not that can be your private home yeah right a licensed tree expert could tell you you know what you don't have to cut down that tree here's another option or that's actually not the tree causing that problem you can just have anybody how do we insert ourselves into that they say there's you know I I'm uh I have a two tree problem I mean I'm not sure what our role in in that is I would think that if they have if they're going to have some kind of tree removal because of structal they're going to be dealing with an arborist and if it doesn't fall into if it's the one tree over four years and it's not in that category four it's it's not even part of the ordinance if if it's part of an application from a homeowner to applications are only for more than th trees over five years and I mean so I don't think it's going to come up that often often because it would have to be the fifth tree what would either have to be in category four or it would have to be the fifth Tree in as many years am I saying that right it says residents remove less than four non Street trees per acre so in category one two or three and we get we this is why we feel like we need another you know more time because when I looked at this tree replacement requirement table that's what I would like to tweak and that's why I made these strings the circumferences for category 1 2 3 and four because you know the dbh for category 2 of 13 in up to 22.99 in uh you know when we're talking about the the diameter you really can't get a a concept of it so I made you know I did a calculation so this is the smallest um the 13 inch circumference you mean dbh the well no the dbh is what category are you want I'm sorry which category well one two or three I thought I had two this is three the dbh for um Category 3 is 23 in up to 32.99 so I I chose you know the smallest one for each category so in category three the um diameter of 23 in equals a circumference of that's a big tree the smallest one is this and this is what we're saying homeowners this is the the small size in Category 3 the um it goes up to 29 39.99 in which is equal to 8 feet 72 in 6 in for um the C so this is the largest tree homeowners can remove without any replacement no no they can they have to replant three Oh you mean one one over a five year four year period yeah they can they can they can remove three of these in five year period it could meet three of now most homeowners don't have you know three trees like this on their property but we're never going to have any trees on anyone's property when they're allowed to remove even in category one um up to a dbh of um 12.99 in it's it would be I I understand that I totally see you're saying but the township is not going to support more stringent all right well guidelines is is the is the thing and we could work on this you know and but the township on accept it and yes of course that's this Township because this Township on this new we haven't asked them to we haven't asked them and and this is our opportunity to ask to this is our opportunity present our educated opinions they had the model ordinance and the thing is the model ordinance was developed um it wasn't just I mean a lot of thought went into it and Science and whatever data the various representatives from the different organizations who put it together had it's not um I mean there's something behind it which is what the the state responded when we questioned how did you come up with this model what you know what was the basis I um I was satisfied with their answer I don't know better I mean I only live one Township in in um the webinar on March 19th the second month they had examples of different municipalities and they on purpose had three different municipalities that were totally different and one of the municipalities doesn't have any large trees at all so they totally revamp this um chart the recommended uh you know category one two and three to really tiny trees because that's all they have and that reflects that Town's concern for their trains way it is [Applause] I don't think we have that information don't something municipalities that have to adop this maybe a couple are going to be stricter but the majority are probably just going to adopt the model the way that it is and worry about enforcement down the road if they have to that's basically what's going to happen so I think at this point you guys seem like you have a lot more more questions and you're looking at this in more depth but to be honest I mean the TC can put this forward adopt it and you can come back with further recommendations four months from now that you consider changing it or not but at some point we're gonna have to make a decision I agree but I feel like you know we just need to Hash this out a little bit more we're we're talking right now but we're not listening to each other understand that the D is not going to come down on us if we wait this but we did give everyone a de right well I no I'm I'm listening I'm listening I'm just not clear what changed to the current model you're you're exactly saying that you want to rework the table so that we um I mean the thing about cranberry is part of it is historic and we have some old trees but a lot of it is new development and a lot of those developments sadly you know planted poor trees and um you know every new development has younger trees so it doesn't apply there's all there's different age and size trees everywhere all over town um unlike the other town that apparently only had small trees they must have been all Farmland before or something like Winwood has very large trees um Shadow Oaks uh but there's a a number of them that have very uh large trees at least in category one and two yard or in the both you know they're there long enough like in 20 years depending on the tree that's the other thing some trees will you know grow faster than others and some trees even you know after they're 50 years old they not that their circumference isn't that big their dbh isn't that large but other trees are and I have trees in all in all those cies in my on my private land as well as in the right well I'm putting in a pool right and you have to take down two of those bigger trees that's that's why put this exemption right we not penalizing people who want to put a pool in or right and I have an example of my house that I moved in I sold um like five or six years ago and it was on just short of an acre of land and we put it in a lot of trees and all our neighbors thought we were nuts because we were going to have to rake all those leaves uh and then later on we decided to put a pool in and we had two trees near the area and we took one of them down because we were concerned after we had the pool put in about the roots you know as the tree grew so we took that tree down but when I sold that house the homeowner took down all of the trees like five at least five of them this would well this this would stop that this this wouldn't the way it's written yes it would because they can't take down so many trees could taken three down they could have taken three of them down and then wait in another five years they'd be taking them down now the rest of [Music] them and Wrecking are the climate the whole purpose of this is the climate the science is has proved our climate is changing our storms are are extreme we don't have hardly ever a regular rainstorm we're getting an inch in a day two or three inches you know in a couple of days and you can see the the roads flooding where they weren't when uh four seasons was put in they put in this steep detention Basin which has been working great but with these extreme um storms with the water coming from across Old Trenton Road with another new development that's has flooded that section of Old Trenton Road again which when I moved into cranberry in 1985 it would flood all the time so you know the township has done a lot of work to correct that but now it's occurring again with the extreme weather and between people what to do with their property and making sure the environment is safe and that's why they did this the way they did it you can debate it back and forth right all you want and come up with something different but I think that you know okay so we have other things on our agenda as usual um I think I'd like to make a motion for a straw vote okay so I think I let me get my paper second hold hold on to a second please because I'm taking the okay sorry I'm for the where did I put the Roll Call paper I I'll have to write it down and find it after before I give it back to Jacqueline should be here here it is okay so um okay so you're asking for a straw poll on whether to pass the ordinance just to clarify whether to to pass the ordinance on to the township committee for approval is that correct yeah which is in our agenda okay um so that's Jackie and who seconded it Bonnie I'll second it I'll second okay um on that motion chakie um how do you vote no Bonnie how do you vote Yes Jessica how do you vote no I vote Yes and I'd like to say why I'm voting yes because a lot of time has been devoted to this I can't see us um even with more work sessions when um I mean we can can there be a better more strict ordinance yes will the town should accept it no they've told us that already I mean uh as it is it will be have to be made pable for them to accept well they have to accept that it covers all the properties in cranberry and and we've been focusing a lot on Residential Properties but Focus it's on every property whether it's the whatever the rental place is out on 130 about taking down trees or whatever they'll have to follow the ordinance yes enforcement's an issue overview but in my experience handling tree inquiries for many years now okay which I used to do with Christine rarely have people people called up to take down trees without um finding out what what uh how to do that mean an LTE which is what we recommend as well as they're almost always saying they want to replace the trees they take down that's been the sentiment from residents I've received also contractors will call to find out is there a permit it's the Arbor's job to look at the ordinance and see what is required and then also their job to to tell the folks well if you're taking these trees down at this rate you will have to do this many replacement trees and there's an application process to which will come directly to shade tree at this point because there is no um anybody else uh and if we have a number of them we have Consulting money for an arborist and I've already talked to one Arbus who could be available they rate $75 to150 an hour there's there's several around um so we have options but also critically to educate the public which is what I'd like to see um our and going into including the kids at the school because you have that opportunity and I was going to talk about that but I'm not sure timing wise um about the curriculum um as well as May's Wellness walks in the park I mean all of that to educate the community and just have them Embrace trees and act responsibly in terms of the residents I we um and that's all I have to say right Kathy I appreciate what you're saying um but up until now the homeowners that call about trees problems with trees are the the street trees because everyone knows the no they're not it's not just Street trees I get I get calls about their trees also which is not which up until now we don't have any we have no ordinance to cover but now we do right or will so my my my experience is uh people call about the street trees and uh other than Main Street it it appears you know most of the people are told well it's not in the right of way and it's your tree you have to take care of it and um that's that's been my experience and I I just want to stay like you I feel like it it would be valuable uh to just hold off for another four weeks at the most four to six weeks to review this so that it reflects the town's appreciation for trees Bonnie since you're the other person that voted yes would you like to comment about why you voted yes so I voted yes simply because knowing the Tang committee I know that they don't want anything to do with stringent stringent every one of our meetings y any other comments before we move on with the agenda already know I've stated before I listened to that Township committee meeting I got the clear indication that the members of that committee want to strengthen tree protection for cranber I do do not believe that the ordinance as currently written does that and I also would like to ask a point of order do we have an opportunity to place amendments on this amendments not amendments you have to reintroduce and that's okay there you are here in this in this this situation can we amend what is being forwarded we've been told different things been told that this is what's like this is the version well this is the current draft that will go to the TC revise the draft before it goes to the TC at this point where does it stand it stands that to the committee and keep working on it if you want and you'll represent that we were two and two that we were not unanimous she will come something else you can whether they'll introduce and reopt would be up to them um but at this point you know I don't think this two and two is going to change so I think we're just going to move forward and we're going to get this on the books and then if you feel that there's something you would like to amend you can certainly come back ask gue and it would be a new ordinance not an amendment it would you have to so just quickly about the amendment thing but in the case of the existing ordinance that we've had that you were amending so that it complies with the state requirements that's an amendment to that to the existing ordinance I mean our current or um it's a new ordance this is a new right but where where the okay I'm sorry the conflicts then between this new ordinance and our old ordinance of wish there were just like maybe one little and AD okay so it's okay so it's not an amendment it's actually introduction adoption of the ordinance with that change I see right so they see what's new and what they're why they're adopting it okay can we please explain what the what is is anything going to change with the existing ordinance is anything going to be modified there this ordinance right now that is in no we're not changing anything okay there's at least one point in which I think that they are in conflict and that is the matter of the fee violations and fees there are existing ordinance the existing ordinance the $1,500 you're talking about yeah 131 I'm not chapter 41 shade tree condition we're going to fix that we haven't seen language on that yes we have stand yeah okay what is the language on that I don't think the language changes um I think it's just the fee the F fine fine fine why what is it was based on an average of all the other uh of other townships that were looked at that's my understanding and three the three the 350 it was looked was after looking at other townships and their various I don't want to confuse fees with fines but Kathy the one thing I um am concerned about is that there are an awful lot of tree services that come around and you know take down trees and they don't have a licensed person like there's a sign on cranberry Neck Road there's a there's a house down the road from me and using marit and B um and I don't think that they have okay well it's a New Jersey law that if you're going to have tree work done on your property you have to have you have to use an LTE that's a New Jersey Law who's going to call them on that yeah well that's again um that's a New Jersey Law we don't have enforcement in Cranberry for tree ordinance or that that particular sort of a tree law that you can't have work done on a tree unless it's done by now there was an occasion where I saw someone a outfit working on a tree in the right of way without helmets I alerted the DPW and I don't know if they alerted the police but I don't think they could have been LTE if they weren't even wearing helmets and they were climbing the tree in a way that wasn't appropriate but sort of you know um I'm not sure what to say to do about that but again when we talked to you know it's on the website about getting tree work done that you have to have an LTE it's a law it's stated on our website um and we anyone who inquires we tell them you have to have a licens tree expert to um determine the health of that tree and get the work done on the tree and remember a lot of the workers work under the license of the LTE the actual LTE isn't the one in the tree but there does have to be a system in place may I clarify something here so we have an application process if you feel that you are in if you're exempt because the number of trees that you're taking down okay within a certain number of years we're not even requiring them to go through the the application process that is I believe that is correct how are we going to get any data on what's actually happening in the township let me think about this for for a second that's a good question is it um let me see let me just check the the uh ordinance um I would also there's another section of of something that was removed in um section one sorry section three regulated activities application process um number one I guess there is only one um so no they have to do the application process any person planning to remove the tree tree as defined as tree remov with DH 2.5 or or any non tree with d more on their property shall sube removal application to Theiss so applications for all tree removals and they do not and so even if they're exempt from like having to replace a tree or would be if we were enforcing that yes I think they still have to apply and there will be a place on the application they where they have to say if they are exempt why are they exempt and read things clearly they don't always understand things and sometimes they don't ask absolutely have get the word out that any time you're removing a tree of a size bigger than this there's an application process even if you think you're exempt and then you'll say on there you're exempt because of this reason okay that's what I wanted to clarify just to make sure that they weren't getting out of even having to participate in the application no there I think we know that the few inquiries that I got recently were about have to replace the pool dect trees have to come out and I see I said there was an ordinance in the pipeline and it will be passed sometime in May and and it will be there there will be an announcement in the news and announcements and the mayor's announcement more than once not just once but multiple times and I'll go through the process because I know there's a process for getting something in that announcement um and then ideally we would have a public education session already set up that we could say and find out more attend you know something at the library whatever we decide to do as the first um Outreach thing there is also under the application process there is a line that had been in the model ordinance but I don't believe was in the final version it's just um so it says any person planning to remove a street tree blah blah blah shall submit a tree removal application to the shade tree commission no tree shall be removed until Municipal officials have reviewed the approval have reviewed and approved the removal that line no tree shall be removed until Municipal ofal have reviewed and approve the removal I don't believe that that made it into the we're not a municipal officials and that's why because we're reviewing I I believe because we'll be reviewing the applications and we're not officials well then so that could be it maybe it should but I don't think then I think that line should I think that line should be there with the appropriate language yeah no it's it is true it is is 11:25 and I really can't sit here much longer um I mean no no no no I know but but I understand you move on okay I understand okay so um what I can suggest is if if you if Jackie and Jessica would like to form a subcommittee and then report in June about um and then we'll see where we are with the ordinance in the township I mean I don't know if they're not going to push back about something I don't I don't know but um I don't think so because we reviewed we reviewed it um clumsily but was it was reviewed at the work session with the township um um it was not a version of it that had been reviewed by the Sha tree commission it it was it was the model it was it was reviewed at the um I'm gonna forget my dates anyway thank you Denise yeah thank you okay thank you um I think it was red at the February meeting we had uh I just want to go on the record here that this process is not not reflective of how a commission should be operating we were being asked to further something to the township committee without actually having any opportunity meaningfully to understand what it is that we're being asked to recommend okay well we worked I mean we talked about it at the November meeting we had a work session at the February meeting we met with the Township in March we had a work session with the township administrator in March I'm sorry I'm forgetting my dates um I'm not sure what we haven't done I mean we're not asking for public input on this which had been a suggestion had one meeting where we had the actual we have had one meeting with the actual text to review you cannot you mean you mean the updated the the this draft not the um not we're not talking about the model anymore we're talking about this dra yeah one meeting and at that meeting that was also the first meeting at which we had been given the same days an understanding from the state that in know in certain terms we had to apply this to private property these are not small things you know it affects how the law and how the Ordinance Works as a whole we have not had had a meaningful opportunity to discuss this I appreciate the work that everybody's been doing Jackie's asked for an additional four to six weeks I have stated this before I've been stating this since November no I hear you I do not understand the rush I hear you um I don't think it's rushed from where from my position we um I don't think it's rushed I mean and it's I have outstanding questions um that have been cut off that are what I have out questions that Denise was not able to answer that have not been addressed in addition to the in addition to the ones that she's already answered yeah it's it's being ignored I mean any of the the the the concerns that I've had in terms of the D definitions of Hazard tree and how those are determined the application process making it clear that you can't remove your tree first well that is the next that is the next thing that we haven't is the application process we we have to design the application and that's up to us we talking about the ordinance and I and I mean I the violations and penalties well okay at this point at this point because I don't have anything else to contribute more than I have at this point on this I am asking to on the record stating my disposure yeah yeah except the application which is which would would be good to have it um available online when the township passes this I can't remember what date now we're looking at if they read it the 1 and the 22nd the second reading is in May and so by the end of May what was the date that we in may they so approve it a couple of things um you know I don't know if the appropriate time for some of that is at the second reading that what is that public comment at the second reading but not not shade tree representing the ordinance or whatever but um I suggest you and Jackie form a subcommittee and come back to the Commission in in June saying uh and of course we're all going to go to the webinar right everyone's going to the webinar next week uh talk to the case manager I mean that's what I did I reached out to the case manager and said you know but she didn't she she didn't give me any comments which is why I called it response to response but she did said it looked okay now I don't know how many she's looking at I was hoping she'd come back with um you're sort of middle of the road or you know this is how you compare to the other ones and feel free to follow up with her and tell her um because she's working with it every day um I would like to move forward on planting trees pruning trees uh getting a consultant about a tiny the rebuilding tiny forest in um Village Park and working on the tree canopy that we have direct control over in the public right way as as well as the public education sessions um cranberry School uh communication I'm going to move ahead with the agenda if um if that's okay do you and do you and Jackie want to do like a presentation or something at the June meeting or decide where to go from here but to so that we can continue with this agenda the township meeting where where it's going to be introduced not introduced but the second reading and tell the township committee why you're against I mean to say this is why at the stra poll we voted against it right yeah why I don't approve of it you can do that that's what I think you can do too I believe that's true vote it down if if you're if you're um you know if you have good enough reasons that they think oh right and they're going going to want to hear things like the state said or this organization said or it's been verified by whatever that's the kind of thing that that they're going to want to hear for instance when we were when we were te and this is last thing I'll say when we were at the work session with them and we were mistakenly thinking we had an option for it not to extend into all of um when we were trying to convince them that it should and why well at that time we didn't have anything we could we didn't know that because the state says so and that would have been good to to to have had that uh organization behind us but we didn't know it at the time um I I just noticed it's 11:30 and we had the St vote at 10: after so for 20 more minutes we've been on this I know we haven't made shows how uh well that you know a couple of us feel two of us feel like we need more time so that's all I'll say now well and you can you can well whaty said you can you can have more time right now um I know we we don't have to say else okay okay so moving along um Memorial tree uh I got a list of three trees they would prefer I told the group uh that um the fall that planting would be done in the fall and speaking uh because that's when we're going to plant trees that's what Jackie and I had sort of laid out after we went to the um conference because we did make some connections which you want to uh connect with regarding the nurseries and then they can give us outfits that will plant trees because we won't have a large number of trees I think it's under 10 I'm not sure I have to look at the list of how many trees have been requested and that's just one of tree Replacements on Main Street and some other things um cranberry Outreach the school uh the school Chief administ is aware that we um would like to do some tree walks with the kids of whatever of possibly every grade um whether this gets launched in the spring it is spring or the fall and the point being um let me just get this note really quick because um oh I'm sorry that's not it just uh excuse me I just wanted to tell you about the curriculum um oh sorry I thought I had a picture of it uh just because things that we can share with them and educate them on are all part of the curriculum and they do have some kind of climate change curriculum in every class and so work together with them I know that's something that Jackie and Jessica wanted to get involved in so I'll initiate that which I've just gotten delayed um and it would probably be for the fall I'm not sure um cranberry community and that would be again planning a a a program is anybody willing to present at a community outreach program with me and it would be at the library I suppose uh they plan far ahead so we would probably be talking about um this is March maybe September and then we could advertise you know uh have a note about it at cranberry day or something like that I think we do the storm water like if we could Jo Joe I would be happy so let me find let me find out what his what his dates are um and also to the library how much because I think that's a I can't think of another place where we can really hold it for the community if it's not the library no but I think the library is the only really Community Center where we can have something like that right that's thing I think it would generate interest you know if they I think so they did such a great job with the A and he has good credentials too he's a you know La yeah he's he's and he's great he's great with people and okay so um but we're thinking September for Joe if he's available and I have to find out what the if there's an honorarium this is the arborist at oh Meadow Lakes who um dude if there is is is that something that we can uh we can well possibly um we're allowed to use SP for that if we have them from our because that's that's educ I mean our seven for training because that's training for us as well absolutely um and just throwing out there this year the Sha Tre newers sha Tre conference is an Atlantic City it's very less attractive to me and I believe Jackie feels the same Jackie's a regular attendee I don't know about Bonnie but we might not go this year so we do want to work in some other CE and we will have that we still that $750 too yes kind of we do in terms of credits but we would like to bring and bringing Joe and so that's where that would come from or maybe somebody else just for us a workshop a workshop about um whatever we're week on right now that could be just for us and then parks would be invited as well as DPW park parks recreation it did it go through already was approved okay so Parks and Recreation are now one right um and I'll have to look into what the schedule is what what's changed I I like how that how what's uh okay we we'll I'll go to a one of whatever meeting they have now I'll try to go to the next one and find out what's going on with that because I usually go to Parks or Jackie does every other month or something like that um okay uh I'm not this doesn't need to be on here and reports onedit accreditation we are accredited although they didn't credit all our but we still had plenty but I would like to look into that Arbor day is April 26th I am about to communicate with um via Jackie the um temporary secretary with the school secretary regarding um the programming availability um inviting all the different entities that have to be invited get that out and I don't know where we're planting the tree but we um and to indicate that too where we'll be meeting and the rain date would be now I don't know what's going on in the school now uh and J you kids around High School I don't know where it would be in the maybe it would be in the library again like we did it last year maybe we let's just say that if it's if it's a rain date we'll just go to the library but there's a few places on Main Street near the dam that I think need a tree there's a dead Red Bud in front of the White House just south of the dam which I've been asking D to remove for a while when do you get your chainsaw um certification Jessica I have it okay um good to know um um anyway we can talk about that we can talk about what that means we can talk about what that means yes we do need to get a tree and the location is the first thing we look at right the cation is the first thing we look at so um uh and I'm wondering if we put it in Village Park because the kids can walk there and we do have sort of a little you know we have several um um cry bble trees there's a dog we planted there by daisies and maybe we put another sort of have the little you know ornamental tree Arboretum there does anyone think that's a good idea planting of the tree in that area well I think if we need them on Main Street we should do Main Street first okay um Jackie would you be willing to look at locations with me as we've done before sure to to the ARB tree and then we'll Main Street spot or the par okay so Jackie and I will deter and then I have to check with DPW as well okay I have to get Jackie and I S then DPW okay so Jackie and I will do that canopy assessment just this is something you talked about a while ago you want to look into seeing if we could get a like how expensive it would be to get a yeah we thought that there was a group that Barbara had worked with but I think she maybe just did it so I if um would it be appropriate for me to go to save tree and ask if they do that what that well you can ask anyone and we'd have to get three quotes I suppose but what I'm wondering is were you able to find the website that has a measurement for cranberry based on older data which is what we used years ago when he first started this whole sustainability so there's an aerial and if there's something else I'm not aware of it there are the aerial maps they did locate them in the community management plan and those were done by Paul Coe I think oh well he did the community for management plan and they show the canopy in like what percentage coverage it doesn't it doesn't do like an assessment like for the whole Township like that we're at 23% which is where I think we're at or we're it also doesn't give estimates like there are there are aerial surveys that can kind of drill down and give you they're different levels of it so you could do like a and then extrapolate like I think that's what they did last time and I think I can't Hansen is it he's on the um Brendan Hansen Bron Hansen he's I think he has that capability um um you know we could reach out to him uh you know he he know he has the computer skills aial mapping so I could contact him or for you Brendan Hansen is the current well he was the he's the chair of the parks but now that Parks and Rec are have combined I don't know what the structure is but he was voted president I mean he was the chair I'm sorry he was he was voted in his chair at the January meeting of parks oh Parks no what's your name is the chair of parks well no no Brendan BR Brendan Brendan was voted as chair in at the January meeting because I did attend the January meeting right yeah and and if I can I don't I think this is maybe going back to Old business like prior business this might relate to Cranberry Community oh my gosh where's oh I'm sorry canopy assessment something I wanted to bring up Canopy assessment and maybe this would have to do with community outreach as well uh but we have you know the inventory that was completed um for cranber partial inventory um it seems to me I mean there's a lot of data there it would be useful for the committee but I'm thinking maybe for the our commission members but I'm thinking like the township committee or maybe even public to have um them come back and actually present to us what their findings were Oh you mean the the inventory report to actually have and here's of the this is the portion that we measured um and of what we found this is this is what we found yeah maybe find out if they do that do you have his name his name is on the report Matt wble yeah I think unless they mixing him up with another Matt of recent something um but Matt W I think is the one whoever did the author you could contact him and say and find out if if that's something that he does would he um uh and then that could be another community outreach which would be um that's uh you know this is this we've have this partial inventory what does it mean what does it mean going forward all of that and I thought of that with in relation to the canopy assessment but as we were talking thinking you know what that could be an Outreach I don't know how much general interest that has I would find it fascinating but well here's here's here's something else that I might be good I don't know how much general interest there is in the public but we could have I bet we could have Matt come and talk to us and DPW and Parkson wck in other words a training session about this is the inventory that where these are going go through going through the report instead of making the public one um so I'm not sure how much interest there would be when uh but but he would go over there because it's a full report I mean I I I need to SP I need to spend more time with it and um Jackie spent more time with it than I have but there's so many valuable resources in there and might and see if he would be willing to say come do it for us and if we had a training session would that give us enough information to do like a more public or like present the findings to the township committee at least something like that also also we would just have to find out too and I think because he is an LTE I believe the important thing is to find out if we H if we do have him come can we get CE hours for that need them now we don't but I think it's important and also I I mean the more CE we get the better I mean it is CE even if it doesn't if it's not countable but because he's an LTE and he's coming to talk I mean I think it would count and um anyway we'll find out if it would count I don't know if Joe gripe would count necessarily but maybe you know no maybe not probably not um anything else on canopy assessment or consultant LTE is what I'm moving on to if are we done with canopy assessment El could s on St is on here because we have I can't remember if it's five or $7,000 for some to talk to someone about and now um I'd like to introduce this new term for the um deflated wood cops in Village Park uh which is you know few trees mostly invasive plants now and I would like it we've been talking about this for all to be established as the little Forest it was and there's a new term tiny forest and that's what I'd like to refer to it as the tiny Forest we'd like to read uh populate that tiny forest with trees and get rid of the invasive and that's what we need an consultant for um and it would be a matter of talking to three consultants and I only I have the name of two I think to call um and saying H H how do we approach this who who does this and then we'd have to get quotes from I mean talk to three Consultants like working with and then it would be a matter of getting quotes from the companies that come in and get rid of the the organizations that come in and take care of the just do it get rid of the invasives that it's probably a three to five year plan or something so that we can have budget for that because um what is happening is par in Parks is more trees are going to be uh taken down for the um Ada lot I'm going to talk to the engineer about that but there are Health two healthy sweet gum trees and an oak that they think have to be removed for the redo of the lot and the thing is that's a a lot of roots that are filtering that's a lot of shade they said they can put up a canopy well you know that a canopy that's this high above your head is not going to be the same protection as a canopy of trees above it's not the same kind of shade at all and the problem was they they think the sweet gun balls are problematic now I talked at Parks and Recreation and asked them I mean to DPW had they ever gotten complaints from anyone at the Village Park regarding the sweet gumballs and they said no they clean them up regularly so just just to say this is why the T and Forest is so important because the other thing I did explain regarding that the ordinance in the pipeline explained to the parks person was that if you take down those trees you will have to plant include in the budget um watch I don't know how fall now we have the table and I'm not sure how it falls into the table but I suggested they had to be replaced I don't know if it falls into the guidelines of the table oh but it's Parks it doesn't matter it's Parks we can authorize we we're that's sorry it's Parks is our domain in terms of trees so we can tell them they have to be replaced I'm sorry um and I did that's the consultant LTE tree planting um Jackie and I I have I think it's three particular three specific nurseries that Barton was one um there was one in it's a while ago well anyway it's a while ago it's from November but we we have the we have bror me and we'll set up some appointments we're hoping to take like a field trip one day stop at this place stop at that place and see who we find we can work with who has the best stock given what um we're looking at for planting and recommended trees tree pruning um if anybody sees anything uh included in the next tree pruning quotes that I'm getting for this year will be the trees in the Village Park of Main Street because the Village Park in the village section of Main Street because all of the young trees that were planted for the beautification project as well as the non net loss they've never been limed up or attended to with structural pruning as they should have been so um that and DPW doesn't seem to be able to get to it so does that everyone agree that we should have some work done on the trees on Main Street because I we've cycled through the parks more than once and I'll walk through them again but I don't think there's a lot of work because we just had Village Park work done Heritage Park Barn Park I hope people have walked through there to see the difference in barn Park thank you Jackie yes um and Millstone we really don't have anything to the trees that need attention are in the Do Not Touch Zone um at the edge of the property so go ahead yeah um you know over the the few years we I I've been here to I guess I'm on my sixth year now you know with the trees we've planted on Main Street I feel it's important to have them pruned correctly and it is important important you know from the science of growing the trees that within the first three to five years you need to have them prun but also we have a list from our current uh Tre inventory that has uh a priority list for pruning which uh I think they said you know to address in the second the second or third year because of money constraints but we need to Al you know if there's money after we take care of the new trees on Main So Young The Young trees for the structural PR they haven't really they should have been touched before now as well as um the most defensive uh the most um needy the most needy trees based on the tree inventory okay well that's what that's what we'll look at then and if anybody sees something send you know tree that's I don't know what happened with all the wind and everything last night is anyone see any trees down or hear any booms or we had a lot of Limbs down the prior week the prior week with that wind so I don't know if maybe that took out I don't know I didn't look at my property did anybody else use power last night for a second or two um okay tree inquiries um there are two pending uh sorry I didn't make note of the other tree inquiries um um one okay one was uh trees on private property I I told them that there an ordinances in the pipeline and that um there will be an announcement and they'll know that then there will be an application process for tree removal on private property once the ordinance is passed but it hasn't passed yet and I don't know what their timeline was on the work and you know we have really but they also seem very con already concerned about tree Replacements that they and they have lot of trees they want to put more trees in when they take these down and I sent them to the recommended trees which Jackie and I will improve overnight the tree inquiries right now is um sh so sh Shady Brook Lane but that is an HOA and he has um this resident want ask these questions is there legal requirement to replant trees in the same location and if yes is there an approved well same location but not really so yes and no and um does cranber offer stien to pay for tree moov and that's a no so these are the questions from so that's one I have to get back to and then the other one um oh I'm sorry the other one is uh the the school secretary Arbor Day festivities location so Jackie and I'll get right on that um and that brings us and did did Arbor Day oh we talked about Arbor Day already I'm sorry um and that's that brings us up to date with Tre inquiries at the moment um member report reports I think is someone ordering those little trees oh it's time to call again yes I last time I called they said um we don't know if we're going to have them call back and I'm sorry I didn't call back uh and I can call back directly after the meeting um uh I said well what what do you mean and she said well we planted them we'll see if they'll grow that was the response I got from the person I talked to the nursery so yes I'm going to follow up on that because they need to be ordered because it's three weeks from Friday is um Arbor Day okay I'll get on or I'll go down and pick them up which I've done before okay let me thank you for reminding because I had forgotten it yeah just to say good news Scouts coming back soon Kathy I could offer to go down too you know because you can't really dri I can't drive yet right okay keep forgetting Jackie is my driver by the way I'm planning all these field trips and by the way Jackie is the driver um okay we have to check with the nursery so we hope so um I also have to find out how many kids are in second grade um but generally it's around 40 or so so and usually and the they're all sold in lots of 30 so I'll see if they're available um the township had been lured when they if they send the catalog the listing to please let me know and I haven't heard anything so I assume um so I don't know um do you have a suggestion if they don't have seedlings we'll have to question I think of something else um is there another source no I mean other than and one no um do you want maybe Jessica because you're so quick could you check it's in Jackson and I want to say it's called New Jersey uh New Jersey Forest Nursery Jackson try that Arbor Day yeah Arbor Day yeah but they don't um that then you're going to get Arbor Day stuff this is the state thing yeah um in terms of uh I believe I've reported everything I could possibly report so far um today uh that I can think of I hadn't um while Jessica is looking that up Jackie do you have any other further member reports no I don't we've been busy on ordinance okay I have an update okay Bonnie no no and when you after that do you have any other member reports okay so I don't know if this um Rises to the level of a report but um you know in trying to understand the ordinance um better and in terms of the context of our current process and ordinance there are um there's at least one area where I think that we need we need to just anticipate that we need to update on our website I know one of the action items is for I guess you and me to look at done before to look at this there's another um there's a frequently asked questions document oh yes probably that's going to need some major revisions excellent I just wanted to put that out on the radar for that yes thank you and I was thinking that when we work on um the particular tabs we already discussed that we should take a look at all the other tabs again as you had done before and make sure that they're all current yeah well so this was one I found in particular that isn't and then I also found I think an error on one tab where it it um references the ordinance that where that relates to like our appendix a and it's just it's the wrong number it should say instead of saying I it should say 2-11 d05 okay it says three let's get to that then and that's something that I we could probably put a link absolutely and um make it easier for people and then in that regard also just look looking forward to once we've got this pth and there's an application process in place how do we make it as easy as possible for homeowners and other land owners and yes there'll be a bat button for that too we have the serve what just survey um the analysis that was done by our Engineers of on the right of way and they gave us the maps that and the like the street where they M up by Street um I would suggest that we make that public it's on Princeton's website and why that was that is up for discussion that could be a really good tool yeah mean in fact people are going to want that like we don't let them find it Well we had talk we had talked about that originally that when we get the inventory we'll make it available on website but let's you and I talk about it there's the inventory but there's also the right of way study oh I don't think that's helpful to anybody you mean the the the um Center Line study yeah because you need to know if something on your property is actually in the right way or if it's outside of it right right if it's a I think everyone's um lot property map has the right of way in it and it's different for as you see for streets mine does but it actually differs from the study oh so um but but since we have that I think it would be I don't know why we wouldn't make that public it was work that was you know a lot of the developments the newer developments have the trees on the people's front Lawns but lots of times they refer to as Street trees but are they really it depends on the right of way so it would be helpful for them we can just say look at the right of way it's you know from the center line so many feet so right now the final determination on whether the trees and the right of way comes from DPW they go out and they measure on a Case by case basis and that's why I probably wouldn't recommend to go on the website because it because also it's hard to explain because yes it said there's the engineers report on the Center Line and then it shows you know what the right of way is you know um however I've heard from DPW already that some of the trees that are listed on the inventory as Street trees are not Street trees they are not in the right of way and I haven't had time to like look at that measure you know whatever I I think that we I mean I think when in doubt like give the public the information because and I can say with the frequently asked questions here the second one is where is the public right of way and the answer is if you don't know whether the tree is located in the public right of way or not we suggest you consult a tax map located in the public works department I saying and now and now we could say consult like okay but not to just push up the maps and the list of streets but no also there's like the two pages from the engineer very thoughtfully laying out what it is and what it isn't and they make clear like this is a study um and if you like it's not all encompassing you really need to look at your individual records you know you want to be really certain you need to look at the individual survey for your property right and that's where I want to be careful because I don't want president saying well this says it is and you know and so it's in the right way with the full context before you put an engineer's letter on there specific to that study we do have to check with uh admin to see I mean um Administration to see if we can do that just because I I me it's more of an internal document the letter from the engineer not the tree inventory but um I would just have to ask if it's appropriate to put that on there or will it confuse people even more so but that's a good question because we do want all available information on the sh page of the website people run to town hall when they can just click on the document to get the information good point but I'm not sure they'll get the the right information based on the study it's hard to because because everyone has their own tax map right and then this is based on well is again so I would have to go to town hall because there's a difference between my survey and their study but in theory for the regarding the street trees but I I have let's street it's been redone and so I'm assuming most people probably don't have that difference let's let's talk about some more when we when we go over the all the web or even yeah because I there's more to say about that and I also need to understand more about it too so it so it's clear to um folks who look at it just does it makes you know can they really get the information they need can they stract from there and help helpful it is but definitely there's nothing there right now and you have the fact sheet thank you definitely have to be updated did you find the phone number by the way for the forestry Center so do they does it show that ceilings are available okay so here's the update I'm sorry I I was pissed answer that first um due to unen circumstances the New Jersey Forest Service n Nursery will not be Distributing in at Tre and catalac are participating in the third grade free tree program in 2024 Nursery staff are working hard to ensure inventorial will be available on 202 okay um I'm sorry and yes there is a phone number yes well there's no reason to call now is there Jessica yeah well that's quite that's quite surprising and I'm very disappointed because you've been doing this a long time and that's the first time that ever occurred so I guess we could look into getting ceilings from another from another Nursery I suppose because we want to give the so Jackie and I who are going to look for locations for a tree planting will also see if we can find some seedlings and we and get this and then again it's I don't uh usually the seedlings come out of the DPW budget it's so I'd have to have approval but it was like $25 or $50 at the most well well well that was that was the wholesale price from New Jersey but let's see let's you and I Jackie and I can talk about this and see where else we can get ceiling do they make a recommendation to get some seiling somewhere else yeah well um there's some job postings there's have a lot so the Arbor Day has um is selling like they they'll do 50 packs looks like about seven for many different species it's $79 for a pack of 50 I don't know what your budget is or what the quantity what quantity I'll get the the second grade population but usually I think it's probably 50 is enough they have a variety here can you just forward up the site TOS okay so so this is through the arbay foundation they can ship SE they got an online shop and they say they can ship safely 50 50 should cover it I don't think there's no I think 50 like there usually 20 25 at the most in each class I have I know that 60 was more than well I don't remember it doesn't matter we can we can look at this so this is um shop Barbor day okay we can order those um assuming they yeah they have be ordered right away yes they have to be ordered right away but ALS but also yes but it yeah and probably what I'll do is I'll order and pay for them because it's going to take too long to go through the whole purchas order system to be right now to because that has not been anyway um so uh yeah so we'll select something do you want an evergreen this year we've been doing Red Oak the last couple years I think do you guys matter Jack Jack and I can decide what we're gonna see if we can purchase okay okay well and this see this isn't right they're selling Norway spruce seedlings that is a do not plant maybe we look at another site in protest yes in protest um also Colorado Blue Spruce I pushed back on a one of a plan that came in they were planting Colorado Bruce Spruce and I sent them something from Penn State saying they are not doing well in this region anymore so why you know and they're nonnative anyway to the Mid-Atlantic but anyway um they do have some good things like pink dogwood and they have the hath on which are they don't grow that large I think up to 30 20 or 30 feet well Jackie and I'll find something for because we're going to work on Arbor Day um is anyone or everyone available on Arbor day just to attend and um I mean I know it's a little bit in the future um and T TBD is fine Jessica I'm not asking for a commitment to show up just getting a sense of who's gonna be there I might I might be in Arlington okay um and did you did you finish with anything else you wanted to report on no it was just these the facts and like the kind of the related homeowner okay so I'm going to try and summarize the action items um first action item it it um it's likely that Jessica and Jackie will um do some work on uh a school program right well yes that's one thing infant that's the school but about the ordinance too so school but but but primarily um uh ordinance to bring to June June or perhaps you would take those things to the public comment period I'm not sure because I think as shade Tre you will not be allowed to speak as a shade Tre person because we've had our work session with them but that's what I was think but but I still think I think that as a homeowner as a homeowner you as a homeowner you can still speak but not being representing the shat Tre commission necessarily but you can say look you know volunteer say and I'm sh Tre and and this is why uh I voted no and I just like to tell you might right I think that's okay because they're not representing the committee necessarily just their own okay yeah I'm a member though of the shry commission right of course but that's at the second reading to be clear okay but if comments we would have to present them in the capacity of a home or not as a I believe that's correct because they're not entertaining like a work session with us so as a shy person now individually if you have questions or something you know call the contact the mayor or or our liazon three minutes right or contact the liazon um who was not able to attend this meeting today she'll cut you off okay and then um so Arbor Day that's uh K and Jackie Jackie J um Arbor Day um and also Jacqueline for Jacqueline's last day oh is is post Arbor Day but just just like May six or something that's Jacqueline's last day and then I don't know if there's a gap but between when Scout returns or not do you know May 6th I believe May 6th might be Jacqueline's last day and then we will not have anybody in the office until Scout returns to wait what's she leaving no no I think she's just her she she's been told that's her last day I so I guess Scout must be coming back may I I don't know I I I just hear I heard this it wasn't like I wasn't informed exactly I don't know um okay so um here anymore Harbor day uh planting um that's something that Jackie Jay and I uh will make some appointments and line up some suppliers um PL prun will do the usual thing now that we've agreed we want you know these trees for within our budget but remember we have a $330,000 for tree work this year so let's keep that in mind that's why it should it should extend all the way down Main Street I'm thinking maybe to get all the like get all the trees on whe if they have to come down if they get pruned so that like yeah because that's where the most traffic well I don't know if that's where the most traffic is probably old cranberry I mean Cranberry Road and plains but that's not we don't the ne those trees are in the right way so anyway um and oh and J and and um I think you should go then to Maplewood oh yeah we've when we do right right inventory yes mayel wood has a lot of problems the um DPW already took down some of those critical yes hazardous trees they did so we should look to see if there's uh an area where we can yes exactly and I will and I going to be meeting with DPW to bring them up to date on everything including that we need to copy to send me a copy which I can then bring to the meetings of any work done on trees right so that we can adjust the inventory so that we know what's going on so that we know our gaps have opened up that kind of thing that's should be included with the application data that we're stud will'll be collecting like what is the act what were the needs for action on treats oh okay I see what you're saying I assume DP that's more data together DPW putting like something if they do something to a tree in the right way bur it take it down that's not going to be captured in I mean they're not going to be putting applications right no because because just to be clear again all the RightWay trees we have authority all the RightWay trees Parks Street trees that are in the RightWay you know which is always an exception but but basically all the trees between the sidewalk and the curbs except for the HOA places and all the parks trees and what would be the other public property um well preserves that kind of thing like if the let does that does that path with the new trees that was put in that goes from old cranberry to Main Street do those trees need work I think there's some dead ones there that kind of thing and a tree planted by a homeowner in the right way has to be approved by us but if approved like it's their financial responsibility to prune it remove it if necessary it's only the ones that Shay tree has planted no actually Oh you mean no um again years ago there wasn't a shade tree commission and the older trees were planted by the Lion's Club I guess I was thinking not Authority but in terms of who pays for maintenance of shade trees the the ordinance right now if someone plants One In A A A Street quote Street tree if they you know go through the whatever the process they're in the ordinance right the one we have right now that's going to be presented to the township they're responsible for maintenance for two years to make sure it's alive and uh have to replace it you know if it dies in 15 years who pays after two years it's only two years I think that they have to care for thrives for years who is then responsible for paying for it's removal well generally the township is taking is shade tree Township SL DPW right um for the streets in the right way and because Mo in most cases we're planting the trees there right it's only only owner wants to do it you right and the homeowner has to coordinate with us in terms of species they can't put a female fruit bearing Ginko on Main Street anymore so I think that that could be like what I just add like those we might think of a couple scenarios like that of just when we update the fre ask questions because in fact if people knew oh yeah in terms of compliance and being aware people might actually be spending money that they don't have to that rarely happens because just based on the inquiries that I get very um well in the HOAs it can um but but it HS are different so remember we have the yeah but in my situation you know we've got Street we've got trees in the RightWay no you don't they're not the right away they're not on yeah they are I don't have the inventory with me to see if your trees are on the list so it goes from 25 to 33t from the center line and I have feet I have trees within that on old carber and you think what because there's no because there's no sidewalk or just because you see that far sidewalks but that doesn't it's from the center line it's from the center so here's the other thing about the center line the center line always always in the center and don't ask me how no I understand but I don't know how I don't know how to determine where the center line is if it's not in the center because I can only measure from but but DPW having been on the ground FS feets feets on the ground or along they have a bigger frame of reference for that but I can't impart it to you nor can they impart it to me extremely confused I think it's individually some there pins in theow over it so many times with the um what's development over Silver's Lane no not silver uh by by the Els what's that development great uh the Estates I don't know what that development's called but anyway cranberry walk no that's where noral lived nor right right we're normal okay she we used to go through that oh yeah we did none they don't have any Street trees yeah okay so it's it is it is confusing i' like to walk out with you because I look it's not for anyway I just think that could be useful to people that understand yeah we definitely well the facts definitely she needs to be there's a lot of things have changed and they change rapidly and we need to make it clear to ourselves at least so we can answer you know honestly to people right yes because I get questions that I'm not I can't clearly answer and yet they they seem like they're questions that should have answered but they should have okay well that's all important you know whatever questions you're get getting they we need to have an answer um although sometimes it is on a Case by case basis so right there's not one General answer but anyway so I have um have uh Jackie and uh Jessica working on um if they want to uh put more ordinance stuff forth at the at the June meeting in terms of already looking toward um you know the next Township committee or you know or just based on what what we experience application wise for the for 12 months following the um passing of the ordinance um Arbor Day um me and Jackie Jay Me and Jackie Jay planting well where to plant on Arbor Day um and and seedlings apparently and Jackie I mean Jessica and I on the website specifically facts and updating what will be our appendices I mean Jack are going to work on depend but you know making sure that everything's correct all the tabs um Bonnie what missing that you could do you want to do you want would you like to maybe um see if you can get the names and contact numbers of some Consultants who could provide a plan for our tiny Forest so it's really invasive huge amount of invasive plant control and planting trees yeah and um bunny I think was with me at the shade tree convention the year they didn't call it um tiny forests but they talked about how to take an area you know maybe a football field size and that's like just a junkyard or something and how to amend the soil and prepare it for a tiny Forest you know what you're and one complication we have in this SP thank you is the stumps are left because they were treated for the atanus so do do they do something to help them rot or do they have to be dug out like that like let them know that it's not it's invasive plants atanus stumps and we're talking about 200 different size stumps and then you know like that so and and I think the reason they left the stumps was because they had to treat them they have to treat them and we'll have to find out how long the treatment takes I can't imagine if they're being treated that they should be taken out well no they're not being treated anymore they were well how long the treatment lasts if they need a second treatment yeah okay well we have to look at that too if anyone like to walk walk the future tiny forest and see if if uh the Atlantis is sprouting up then we'll need to do that'll have to that'll be another maintenance thing coming out of the budget to have them treat them again so that they go away um does anybody else have anything else okay uh Jessica was going to work on the canopy assessment oh yeah so just I mean if it's if it's just a website and we can get what's current that's fine too it doesn't have to be you know employing someone to to measure it but um because the one thing that regarding canopy assessment that the inventory does not cover is Parks so when we do a canopy assessment or the other side of Route One I mean Route 130 so in a canopy assessment I know there's something available publicly um I just don't know I'd have to look through notes to tell you where that is and if I find it I'll send it because it came up so look at what what do we have what do we know that exists for cranberry and canopy yeah and then what are maybe some different options if we if we need to expand on that want to yeah because but what's out there can be offered is are there samplings is it an aerial view how does it work and I can come back the the last reference we had which was years ago when this whole sustainability thing started when they started applying for sustainability it was 23% and I don't this site that'll have to look back several years and then our goal was 30% and so we do kind of need to know are and I don't think we've achieved o of 30% because so many more trees have gone on gone away on the other side of the high there's a lot of Farmland so I mean you can even I mean it's Farmland turns to far this because they we've got T does that count as canopy I don't know I don't yeah I know that's a good question right you will get more trees it's better than yes it is ironic for instance um case in point foric anyway i' I'd like to um motion to adjourn the meeting I agree I've got okay so Bonnie seconded I um okay I'm just going to start the tree canopy thing with just trying to find everything that we have okay and I'll see if I can find that reference um and do you want me to check with um five seconded all in favor yes can turn your mics now please yeah we're all in favor and I want to turn off