all right this historic preservation Commission meeting is being held on November 14 2023 at 7:00 p.m. statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 colon 4 hypen 6 was provided on January 20th 2023 of this meeting's date time and place mailed to those requesting personal notice and file with the municipal clerk roll call Miss Ryan here Mr guy he was not attending Mr Gano advised us he was not attending Miss Marlo here miss setm here Mr Sabo here miss aan advis us she was not attending and Miss Canam Township committee leaz advis us she was not attending as well we do have a core arm there chair thank you you are welcome um okay so the first item on our list we have no applications tonight um is the CLG Grant so um I guess that's the old one and the new one correct so it looks like you have hard copies of phase three that were delivered from Richard grain Associates and they will be going to the Cranberry Public Library yes okay um I did reach out to uh Dean climac at the library about a hearing I've not heard back from him so I'll follow up again and see if we can um do our presentation of the survey results at the library in December um so that's the old Grant and I think otherwise are we wrapped up uh with the grant everything like is paid and reimbursed and yes okay all that's taken care of did you want to mention about the designation now or leave that for another topic the designation of the survey Properties or when that is a good question so what happens next um so we've done the uh intensive level survey for these properties it sounded like only a handful were contributing nonetheless um we ultimately should be including them in our historic districts so who knows how that happens that's what we have to that's the next step to investigate okay um how that happens and that might be bringing in Liz Lany um okay for that because we had her Richard priest uh help before right and the U direction we were given is that um it is an easier process to expand the existing historic village District than it would be to bring on individual sites throughout the township so I don't know how easier but I don't know what the well we're increasing a boundary as oppos to establishing exactly so less burden of proof probably um okay so do we think that would be the next step is to reach out to um yeah I think master plan so she'll have to be involved in the master plan right right okay that could um so that would be for 2024 and is she included in our budget to have some of her time yes okay Liz okay so that's the next step for that phase three survey and then the other piece of CLG Grant is the next Grant um so we agreed at the last meeting that uh between the two the uh agricultural outline properties um versus designation of Hamlet that we were going to uh pursue uh National register nomination of the Hamlet um so that's the focus that's I just want to make sure so Lori Thompson is um able to help us with the Grant application awesome um and she did send an email I think asking some further questions about what the next steps will be um for that she also emailed me separately just to um get things started yeah cuz you've been through this process before and again based upon my availability in the next couple months of travel and so how this going to fit in and my original understanding that she was not able to input into the sage system she does she is she's done a bunch of those so that's good I also suggest to the to the group that's here that possibly as a educational exper experience somebody else can also work with us yes so get some experience with grants we're not completely relying and in case I'm not available um that person maybe can answer some questions we're going to have to go back I I believe because I wasn't as directly involved in the hamlet uh all that activity that went it took place other people were I think Jennifer you were involved I know Steve you know one one as far as the research or just questions I mean I think you guys reached out to the homeowners you had more direct uh contact right and we also Jennifer and I met with the state right right you have all that background which I don't have so yeah okay so you're you're more up to speed on process but we have more of the like the background information to I have good I'm good at like researching yeah so Lori's gonna she said she's GNA start this this weekend start framing it out cool so then we'll see what pieces we need because it is is different than the ones that we had just for architectural right survey so but she's familiar with with that so and hopefully with the the sage you know system for the state for the applications now it's not too much different from the way well to it should be a lot easier I would think to be easier yes really because getting the stuff to the state at the you know at the time frame that was due was always a you know hary hay did they get it you know I mean the first couple I think we fedexed it down or pued it down yeah I remember driving one into the city of Trenton and there was someone sitting on the sidewalk this is during Co and I handed it to him there you yes and also the CD I mean this whole it was a whole process and now I think electronically it should the information's in there and it get get a conf exactly okay so that should work out better so when you okay so just to clarify so the split then is and you got an estimate from Lindsay about 30,000 it would we shouldest what Andrea tingi from said was roughly 30,000 for a single property nomination oh boy that's soup nuts that's a research and documentation which is why she said for a district even though the Hamlet is so small you know said for a district it's it's going to be a lot more I mean it won't be you know four times as much or you know but so how do we get an estimate then for I think we need to reach out to Richard grub yeah ask maybe the list of Consultants that we used for previous CLG grant for surve things right I mean as long as we only need two then yeah we get two I think we have well what do we do we three I think but only two but if there aren't enough people you can do two I think you said that to three but you only got two responses so the goal then for this Grant application would be for the research yes and the nomination would be another Grant another Grant okay because of so it's research okay yeah yeah so many steps so annoying all right so we need to develop a scope of work and then request pricing so that the prices can dictate how much money we're asking for correct okay um so but the scope that the research that has already been done because it was pretty I thought pretty extensive that Liz did that we don't use yeah except what the state told us is that we need to enlarge our boundaries right so we had the conversation where the Monroe Township HBC chair came to our meeting because we're talking about including including the Monroe portion of the hamlet in the nomination and then also including agricultural properties um that are adjacent to the H as well as the train station property so then what so then it's including Monroe yeah and the train station yes okay and then what else the agricultural there was like a few agriculture P that were adjacent to the Hamet that they felt were contributing to kind of the whole history the definition significance of it so do we have to get permission from Monroe to do this I believe we already did I think that was that whole conversation when Bobby invited friend they were they were cool with it right they said you know they they weren't going to help us too much but you know felt it was okay for us to pursue this okay so the Hamlet properties we have so then these other agriculture if you have the addresses or whatever you could send that over and we can yeah maybe I'll lean on Stephen and Jennifer too because I know there was some mapping that went along with the Hamlet too yeah Steve's best at that with his software I can help I'll reach you have any I can find the addresses us okay yeah it's easy for me if anybody has it just send send that to me and I can get that over to Lori and then the um um the depot uh we have the research that was already done as a basis at least but the actual I'm thinking the property lock and lot I don't know if that's that's not been subdivided I don't think that's part of the I would doubt it right so just include the whole even though new buildings are going to be on okay yeah okay so um started on that yeah we'll have to get proposals and typically do you give you send out a you know proposal request and you give two three weeks or so to return guidelines are there guidelines okay all right we want to go for I is that what we did last for this the last Grant we sent out rfps before yeah okay okay so that'll be the first step I think is to develop the scope of work so we can get pricing so we know what we're asking for and it's a maximum of 50,000 right for the grant I believe so yeah so okay I can work on the scope of work um a draft maybe send it around so we can okay out um okay so I think that's everything for CLG grants right now except I can talk about it in multiple places but um yeah okay and then I need to uh reach out to the library again about the presentation okay do you want me to own this whole book thing that we're dealing with with the library nope because I got a response you did share that with you when we get there um but thank you I feel bad it's been on the agenda for so long I didn't go there every once in a while me information right so now I got it um okay uh you want to talk summarize about signage and where we're at so we basically we tried to make the order but we're now waiting on we need to get some sort of a invoice and so um Lori and I were talking about we got to just figure out how we can get this paid for and officially ordered um so we're dealing with a little bit of paperwork back and forth on that but I mean we're ready to go and we need to get this ordered like yesterday um and I know everybody wants signs now so we have to work on getting that finalized so I'm gonna try to Robin's gonna make a follow-up tomorrow we'll see where we get with that and then I'm going to probably start using stronger wording in my email is just kind of saying like we're going to run out of Runway we need to like make this happen and what's the delivery time when she place the order she said like six weeks so that's why and it's not ideal because then you're hitting the holidays shipping gets more expensive so like that's why I don't know is there and is there a and I told her I I sent her notes that we're ordering so I just have to follow up and see if maybe they're making it I don't know and what is the township requirement as far as materials if you're paying for it in 2023 do they have to be delivered before the end of the year they better not because I remember that from corpor I know that's how it worked with me in corporate but I'm hoping not I mean I this is beyond my control right now right I mean the fact that I find out now that I need an invoice now instead of an estimate and then the vendors all confused because they're like well we don't know what shipping is going to be until we make it and we know we weigh it and figure out what shipping and shipping changes a lot depending on the time of year they love to get you during the holidays you know can estimate I wonder if they can estimate it that's what I as you know if it turns out and then like now I'm hearing whole so it's just we we'll we'll lock it down this week um so that's where we are with the that okay and then for phase two talk with Lisa and um so here's what I'm thinking we do because we talked about the bike plan last last meeting we know that there's like obviously overlap with what we want to do in the bike plan what we don't know yet is where they are with ordering bike plan signs so I was fixed on writing a note and and I did communicate our feedback to Barbara Rogers about you know wanting to like you know maybe look at the wording on it um ask her if they're going to budget for it for next year for bike plan but irregardless of that I think we should put in a request to do a sign at the Hamlet and a sign at the Elms because I feel like those were the two most important places where we need to indicate the historic district and those are those are not locations that are included in plan exactly so that's why I think we should request it and so what I was thinking we do is send a note to miss marabello because I'm pretty sure she was the one that ordered the one that's on Route 130 and say how much was it and then we asked for like double that and well that makes sense because that's like the main one of the main ther Affairs into the historic and then the bike plan can get executed in some ways like let's just do this independent of the bike plan because eventually the bike plan I don't know what their plans are with the bike plan um and the bike plan's been in place for a few years now and nothing's only one sign's come up so I don't know what the timing is and I don't think I say we just put it in and if the bike plan is doing something though it would be more efficient to order everything all at once right you know so that's why it' be good because we're talking about separate budgets though because we're going to have to go we have to submit a budget I believe for Capital funding yeah we need to appear again next in January to request that funding for our group yeah whereas for the bike plan like who is the but mayor Rogers is or but there isn't a commission or a committee that no that's doing that's implementing the bike plan I don't mind going in again and doing that thing um but there Lisa was asking like if it should be in the HPC budget or in capital budget I am I have no idea I don't really care have we already submitted HC budget we did but what you guys did last year was separate right so then I don't mind putting in a little like request and coming in on Saturday and talking them and saying here's what we'd like two of these here's where we want to put them and I mean feel like we have nothing to lose well they do have that me budget meeting I think that's mean January you just come in for five minutes and say Here's where we are and I I don't think I need to make a big thing of it if they say no then they say no but and we ask next year so in the reviewing the the meeting minutes from last time there was a discussion I think Steve brought up about there was a proposed sign down in the middle of downtown somewhere hisor District the one on Main Street Main Street who's putting that in that's what we don't know it was part of the bike the bike plan was part of the bike plan I think and the point was taken that if it's in the village historic district then HBC should probably have some input yeah that's so that instead of having the sign there we didn't think it was appropriate to have move that one to where the elm she agreed know but neither irregardless it hasn't been budgeted for were they talking about replacing one that's in bad condition or putting in additional this is like I don't know it's just yeah I think so because there's one right in the corner of I think by the consignment store yeah by the consignment that's way up here I know and it needs to be refreshed refreshed so when we talked about that bar um Miss Rogers didn't realize that um that there was a star there in the bike plan and that there was already a sign there yeah so I pointed that out and she was like oh yeah probably have to re the one that was there yeah yeah maybe lower it know where would they would put it into the concrete I don't yeah Spike plan so I say this will be an opportunity for um if we put forward this request in January and say um hi we'd like to do two signs one at the Hamlet one at um you know by the Elms and here's what we're going to be doing and then they say well what about the bike plan I say what about the bike plan you guys so then it will I think it will trigger them to really think through you know if they're going to budget for the bike plan um to do it all together and say that we know these aren't part of the bike plan so we we're going to request these and we'd love like input into if you decide to budget for putting them in for bike plan we'd love to you know have some input if possible that makes sense so I think that I was thinking that's our plan okay we have nothing to lose only to win that's right so okay um so I'll send a note to miss marabello and ask her how much that sign on Route 130 cost um and that way then we been F knows the vendor and we can even ask the vendor to give us a quote for doing two more two more um so there was conversation right in the that's in the minutes about language right saying Village of cranberry and then also uh would we be saying historic district as well yeah I I communicated all of it to her our feedback and then the date think um was mentioned as well I want to bring up something really interesting though I saw something in Princeton so the song that they have in Princeton proper it would said Princeton and they did them recently probably within like the last five years settled and it used to say settled 17 whatever I drive that route every day like to this high school they put white tape over that language the settle settle in all areas so in the Harrison Road and also over on Province line no explanation I think it may have to do with the Native Americans yeah that's what I think and so it was I just want to bring it up so like we'll have to think that all through because white tape is pretty I see it and the only reason I know is because I found a picture of it on the web I mean I think they and it settled whatever but they put like white tape on top maybe eventually I'm the only person that noticed I'm probably I'm pretty sure the only person it's a short it's a short-term solution but it's interesting that um so it's just an interesting thing for us to keep in the back of our minds that nowadays listing dates of foundings you have to be very careful now because good point in my daughter's High School class they give a whole paragraph about Lenape Indians um and be you know Ruckers is doing that too and at the paper mill Playhouse we went to a Broadway show they did the same thing so this is like a new trend and so thinking about historic preservation and listing dates and stuff it's it's interesting yeah so someone in I think in Princeton there must have been something so is the preferred word like established I don't know they block the whole thing out you don't do a date you don't do a date or we could say when it was founded but I think maybe it was the word settled we could I could if I have time I could reach out to the Princeton historical society and try to find out what it was exactly it might be helpful know for reason then just to be of aware if we or if there was maybe there was a controversy about the actual date that's the other reason I'm thinking but but so Ruckers has like a a a language paragraph acknowledgment of like native nations and such and the fact that you know Ruckers was established in 1809 but it was settled on N Land and blah blah blah blah it's a whole big paragraph so we might as well be aware and we have to think that through because that's a really good point yeah so okay um okay is that it for signs for the moment yeah uh we already talked about the Hamlet I don't think we have anything new um commission training that there's a you have a have a zoom meeting coming up on the 16th is there a is there is I got that and I asked Robin to pass that around I won't be able to do that I you registered yeah Robin I did register let me check this one this one's free this is from the traditional building conference I register so this was yeah so I oh the porch I took the one last Thursday on the re preserving the Integrity of the American 16th yeah this 16th I forget what the topic was um forget and that's through traditional building right yeah I think oh I think I think it had to do with materials for for it's about windows isn't it isn't it about like GE my memory is not it but Robin what was the other one that was through the National Association of yes so this was National Alliance of preservation commissions it's titled ABC's of historic designation they did I did speak to a woman that is there and she said they are going to focus on National register process when is that one so that one's Thursday as well it's Thursday webinar at 1 o'clock pm. I can't remember which one I I signed up this one's $15 I signed up for was at two o'clock okay that's probably this this one okay so let me know if anyone does want to do that and I can register okay should we do that that seems like a priority given what we're trying do exactly that's what I want to emphasize Thursday one yes Thursday one webinar I know that I have registered for NAC is that right napc um I have registered for those webinars before and I paid the fee and then I got reimbursed by Robin through whatever train you think it'll be recorded though because I have a client call um I think you recorded yeah you can you you would need to register and then you'll have access to the recording do you think we should I think we should should I go to that do you think I think so yeah since it's like this is going to be a priority right all right so I'll try to register for it I to go into my emails to figure out what I'm doing um I think that's it for trainings right now right so so I'll report later when I learned from the training that I just took the worksh no you should tell us right now okay so you learn about so the one from preserving the Integrity of the American front porch um uh by the uh traditional building conference continuing education um it was presented by Chris Tidwell from aratus who produ they produce um synthetic building material so for porch decking um quite interesting in that basically what we've talked about uh the materials that are available now for renovating or restoring porch porches uh the pine is New Growth Pine so it cups a lot it doesn't last I it rots so you have PVC and manufactured U material uh actually PVC he pointed out which is hard to believe that it's sustainable and all this other stuff you know I really you know you take it from where it's coming from um but it's true I mean you Pine is not something that you want to use because it's not going to last um but they got into which is valid when people come in and they talk find it we need to ask ask the contractor if they're there or whatever how they're doing the structure because some of the new porches that I've seen put in the boards go parallel with the house there's some on M so they can put an edge on it which is not good for water flow it just it just catches the water so there's a there's ways to if you have it that way you can adjust the the uh the structure underneath and and do it so it's proper um put drainage holes in yeah so um it was interesting about an hour hour and a half presentation and again from his perspective um is and I think we had I think when Marty was on the on the um commission he did some uh porch Renovations and he was mentioned that this this product has it's not um like some of the stuff that you see it has grooves in the under side so you it's not flush so these you could actually sand and make a rounded right Edge to it like you would with wood so um was it they talk about that plasticky like the plasticky siding that instead of the clapboard like well no this this just had to do with porches specifically porches but he did point out which was interesting which I found um my uh daughter's house in in uh suburb of Chicago uh um her 1940s and it was renovated and it had gutted and redone and they had the the windows with the reflective glass I guess they and certain times of the year the sun bounces off their windows and it melts the neighbors V sighing oh my God oh my gosh because there's no shrubs I mean if they the neighbors put shrubs there it would cut but and they were talking about talking in this seminar or this webinar U about you got to watch the sun you have to look at the Sun how it reflects different times of the year because if you're using this synthetic stuff and you have these newer windows that reflect you could end up softening the uh the boards W so I have a story about vinyl siding so I'm from a Rochester New York native so um uh a coworker was telling me about friends he had who lived up in Upstate New York on Sodis Bay right so cold like water off Lake Ontario winds and they moved into a brand new house with vinyl siding and it was so cold that the vinyl siding cracked and really fell apart yes yeah so I mean that's other things new materials new technology because we do have window replacements right something you don't think about until it happens I mean one of the one of the ways to compensate for that is instead of 16 inch centers you make it 12 in so this material doesn't have this wide of a spand so there's some things to take into a so it was it was interesting interesting and again it goes along did they did they talk it all about railings or the height of railing was really the decking because a lot of the railings are done in somewhat use the word skimpy I guess is the word I would use I mean they're not you know they don't have a nice cap and a nice piece they're all they're just tall skinny pieces with a little thing on the top yeah and I just wondered if he addressed that no he didn't do anything with railing mainly decking and the slope and keeping the water that's the whole the railings subject because that's so obvious yeah I mean we have one I thought turned out very well um by near the corner of uh Station Road in South Maine yes they well you could avoid the long spindly Thing by and that porch railing turned out very because it wasn't there they did the porch and everything but they didn't put a railing because I don't think code wise they needed to but they put the railing in and it looks actually yeah pretty good so that was the one um webinar I took last Thursday Saturday I went to uh Fairmont Park in Philadelphia uh the Fairmont Park Conservancy um two uh gentlemen who worked there Tom mcpo and Andrew Staples they had a US let see from 9 to to 1 so that's 4our Workshop um about uh wood doors and shutters restoration so that was interesting in that uh many of the old wood doors were not are not hold held together by Glue mortis inan and pegs and how to adjust them if they sag and and redo um redo the the structure put new Peg holes in and and excuse me do the um instead of buying dowels that are uh the wood goes lengthwise you can buy a tool and cut dowels so it follows the same grain as the the front of the wood so it doesn't split so was interesting um the other thing uh many different types of doors and one one thing in the in the write up they had some handouts um so a six panel door so one of the theor explanations of the whole idea of the different the panels the top four panels and this has biblical references like that's the cross okay and the bottom two panels are an Open Bible I've never heard that before wow NE I did not know that's pretty neat just you know some of the story you know but um anyway so um they went over the different lock Rim locks how to repair Rim locks oh really um the different uh hinges oh my um and shutters are constructed the same way as doors so it's not normally glued they're mortis and tenant in the wooden wooden pegs and because we're in the Philadelphia area Al though it was ruter sponsoring it and the person there from ruter maybe you know Cheryl Meers Charlene Charlene what is it Charlene Myers she came at the end or she was there but she introduced herself at the end um so um anyway a lot of these guys are from Pennsylvania and they're like they asked anybody interested in louage shutters well we have more louage shutters here Pennsylvania seems to have more than pan panels so we did go over louvers and I'm interested in you how to repair them and you know can you get the Staples that for the lift bar can't you have to make your own oh Wow Nails little you know thin nails to do that so um it was interesting yeah was it Hands-On as well like where they it was they it was we didn't have I mean they pass things around a touch and feel um but it was a in the Ohio house which has its interesting history this is that was built in 1876 for the 1876 World Expedition Exposition which only ran from May through November right and they had an Arial of all the buildings that were built tore them all and they tore most of them down Ohio house house was one of the few well the only one remaining built of stone and it had all the materials were from Ohio and there were 28 States at the time so there were 28 houses and they had them all in a row that's really cool yeah it's it was F fascinating so Ohio house is the only house remaining of those 28 yes is is that information still accessible you the shutters I'll tell you why as I don't know if you know the gentleman that had to leave does any yeah what happened to our guest he he's the person who bought 10 10 Sims Court ah he and he's very interested in doing something with the shutters getting them restored and mounted properly on the building so if that information could be available to him um in any way I mean I'll see what the handout has is he gonna come back I don't know I don't know what he had something um I thought I brought the handouts with me it was it's only two two me we just he had just had some he was looking for resources yeah they did it uh they had some things in the room it wasn't it was not a big room and there was maybe 20 people there um but they they did have slides but nothing like how to type of thing well I mean he noticed right away that the shs had been taken off their hinges and they were just tack to the they told about how to mount them and a lot of it had to do with sure he'd be interested in whenever we could get him yeah I mean they again because they're based in Pennsylvania it was mounting the uh Spike um what do you call it shutter dots spindles spind into you know into the mortar oh Stone you know stone versus wood and he says if all else fails you just buy the screw on types like we have here you know I have to get them into brick you know so it was it was a good overview and things again it did come up that if you're not hand to find a contractor to do this to is you know one woman from South Jersey about window she brought up Windows because they did have a Windows SE web uh Windows uh training seminar in the spring which I couldn't attend which I sorry I missed and I don't have anything online but she said that in her area people wanting to have Windows repaired there's like a two-year wait for contractors to I think the voes also are doing their shutters over and they do have L shutters yes that's the one that supposed to give me the old ones but but they might that also but about how to you know repair the slats using you know slatted wood but then you put the the pegs in that it's it's it's a lot it's a lot of work labor intensive but it can be done and it's all sustainable and you're not throw anything out the whole thing about how they close and the proper sizing yes how how to pick them so they they can close Okay so was good good session good thank you um okay next item is HPC library book inventory and I have news y okay so um I found the list of books going back to I don't know know when we started doing this but um I sent it to Brook Basista at the library and I got a response so she had told me about the most recent right books that uh the little house that we did last year the John bull which was last year um and the Canon and Amboy railroad uh from 1891 let's see all these materials have a CPL created book plate signifying donation from the historic preservation commission she didn't tell me where they but they're not getting put on a are they on a shelf she didn't say where that no so I gave her the list of the other books that are older than um from 2020 and before and she said we verify the titles in your document we have copies of the following titles housed in the the reference collection so that includes our intensive level survey one and great phase phase one and phase two just like we'll have phase three now as well as the design guidelines for cranberry Village by Gail huntting so those are um our documents and then there is the old barn book The 100 Victorian architectural designs turn of the century house design Field Guide to American houses and then East Jersey under the proprietary governments that was Stevens book and then Scotland and its first colony also Stevens book all both related to 1713 house so those are in the reference collection then in the circulating non-fiction collection they have New Jersey a history of the Garden State I'm not sure when we donated that and then it says we are unable to locate the following titles so we have building by the book by gutter the comfortable house by Gowens classic houses of the 1920s by loo and Sears robok home builders catalog by Sears so where did those we gave them those titles they are part of the yeah HPC donation list so they lost the Ser C why would they throw away a catalog no no no it's it's probably not so I had a a reprint of Sears catalog from 1909 that I just picked up at a a used book sale yeah so it was probably a re modern reprint okay of a Sears catalog but which would include the house all the house you know kits that you but if it was in the circul circulation section if people didn't take them out they probably called that from their inventory would be perhaps but I guess maybe we need to be clear with our intentions that do we want these items to be circulating do we want them to be referenced like when we we want a shelf a reference shelf right I mean because now it says um you know she didn't clarify where like the little house went or where the um the John bull went but those are children's books right so they shouldn't be referenced the John bull one I had to get permission to take it out when I brought it for the um for the meeting with the developer so okay so that is a reference book it is a reference book but the little house they probably put circulating right which I think is okay okay because it's not really a rare book I think it should be and and we want people to read it you know we want people to read it with their kids right sure so you know going going forward you know we we should probably help like think think about when we land on our book books for this year you know where we'd like them there might even be more books because I'm trying to think how many years ago it was because every year that I remember that I've been on the commission Linda was Linda Scott would order would order books I had Linda's list you had Linda's list which okay that was it because it it was in the office and then we said well they're not doing anybody any good the office donated to the library right so there was a whole bunch that went over at one time okay so there are four that are gone okay okay um can we ask what if we ask them if they could designate like a historic um owner shelf of the library we probably need to meet with isn't there one I thought there was one well no that's the issue they I think when they moved over to the new library they didn't do that which is how these got kind of shifted into reference General and they got confused because they knew we had that the um cranberry historic preservation Society has like a whole separate room that they are setting up and so I think they probably the memo about the special Shelf got lost but that's something you can only get into you have to ask to get into that room you can't just walk so we don't want we don't want that stuff in there we want a shelf in the reference section on cranberry history it wouldn't you know wouldn't be a huge shelf I mean if it's a half a shelf certainly should be people should be able to read them I mean okay do you to speak with them yeah if you want to do that that's fine now that we know where things are if you want to forward that to me like um that email yeah I'll I'll go over there and any books that were lost is there any of them that you think are valuable or of value to reorder them if they're available to I would say the Sears catalog one because don't we have Sears catalog houses in town we suspect ours was a kit house they do sell like a paperbook version of it yeah that's that's what I had that's 15 bucks on Amazon we could afford that how much is it 15 we could get three of them yeah so uh any book ideas for end of this year we need to figure out soon what we'd like to buy to donate for this year might need to Reby the catalog book The Sears book I would I would go let's buy the do we know what year the book of the the house that's on um Main Street that's the SE house what year it's from does anyone remember which one is that I think it's is it the one um is it the one that has the the blue one blue one I believe is it the blue one the blue simple one that's it used to have peeling paint um North or South right across from the cranberry in a blue house across from the cranberry is the sir catalog house it is I thought so no that's two story Colonial that's that's a if you're talking about Wilson's house is right across l Wilson and then next to that is yalin and then and they the blue one the blue one that one I've never heard that I don't think I don't think so do we know anyone who might know which house is the Sears catalog house in our in our so the reason I mention this is that they sell they sell the Sears catalog from 1926 they sell the Sears catalog from 19 1887 Sten they sell it an architect there might be specific there might be specific editions that are just like house house plans house kits as opposed to like the the reprint that I had buy shoes and I would say that let's and fure homes from the 1913 there's a certain period of when Sears robu houses were and four squares you know that style was very right and I want to say that was the time period like 1910s or so which is why we don't want to be too late yeah they have one that's 1930s so okay Sears modern homes 1913 okay and then they have that sounds great is that the one that we would want to get $17.25 yeah I think so okay might want to look inside but it's low risk I mean well the time period's right it's a Dober reprint which is always good and um it's serious so okay so um how do we go about getting this so I what we did last year I think is um Stephen and I ordered books and then we uh requested reimbursement okay but it had to be done before the end of the year correct so do you want me to just buy this and then send in send in the receipt we got one down done I thought it was an original Sears catalog would be um okay so any other books that we think we want to uh donate to the library any ideas it' be great if they had referenced some books in your Workshop they did not okay um okay okay so that was good progress uh let's see the next item on the agenda is identifying historic agricultural properties so what's going on with that haven't gotten too much I've been busy with this training and stuff I haven't got any okay so the next step was going to be what we talked about it in the minute so I did talk to Stephen when I was working with him on the uh 1713 Cottage about the agricultural property so he has so once I compile that with what Bobby gave me and some he has some other properties to add into that so we have a a list and we'll verify that we got okay everything and then go from there as far as what what what next step I think it's probably a drive by and because there's a few that are on that list probably vially from the street and very yeah it would be good to know like I know we're we're concerned about street view it'd be good to know how many are really a problem from and how many are at least a handful that you can't that's what I'm so that way we we have that then have some more discussion you know early next year and see where we're FL that out okay that sounds good um HPC public research out Outreach not research um so that's that session that I'll reach out to the library about for the presentation by Richard grub anything else right now I don't think so we are going to need to start talking about our big plans for cranberry day and or the uh 1713 house um what's the name of that event that they Colonial Fair Colonial fair I did at the same time I was working Karen Kelly was there I asked her about that because I didn't I was out of town when they had this one she goes this year she goes uh unless they have more participation volunteers to set it up they're not going to be doing it on a regular basis wow I because I heard it was very it was very popular she said it was behind the scenes last minute to get things done well that's I'm had trouble getting food vendors at the last minute well I'm just saying that could be address I just think if you had enough time to plan it and because it was the first time but I think it's something you should definitely do again yeah I loved it we had so much fun even my teenager loved it yeah I think with all the different committees and you have the township committee get their Buy in I'm thinking also the economic development committee this is historic who set that up Economic Development okay not bus business owners I think well Historical Society are they it was a r around the bike thing that that was being done New Economic Development I think it he was the one that said Eric Horman so you know I me well this is what I heard from Karen it was all because of the whether we'll do it again I mean obviously the Historic Society would be invited to participate but if they decide to do it that's nothing to do with with the Historic Society okay would this is what tar told yeah I'll talk to Eric who see what he said they do it again I mean are they going to do the tour to Cranberry that was the reason why they had it to begin with probably was because of the bike thing and which was an Eagle Scout project yeah it was very popular which was super popular yeah so I mean the Historic Society didn't have any shortage of people to do the work I don't okay okay so uh maybe we talk about this this speaking of people talk about it now or we should talk about it sent this is okay I I will talk about it now because this is like this looks like a lot okay so miss I say canum I don't know what's correct potato um so the township was contacted by the state by Revolution New Jersey um who are preparing to celebrate the 225th um anniversary of the Revolution and um want uh townships and counties to participate so um I believe at the end of October Township committee passed a resolution to form a committee uh to prepare for events for this celebration of the American Revolution so now cranbery is one of at least 23 municipalities that is planning to have events related to the revolution um so I spoke to miss kiram today and so she has been charged with um uh kind of putting together this committee so she talked about all different kinds of groups including us uh obviously the Historical Society but um she talked about the library and the school board and just all different corners of this of the township to get together and plan some events um so she's thinking that 2024 will be a planning year um some towns are St events as early as 2025 and you could have your events as late as 2033 I'm not sure why you would do that that's hard to imagine but um so um it's it's coming and she would kind of like us to help you know brainstorm and uh offer ideas I suggested to her that um I have just like uh Mr Zabo had those um minutes from what were they from the early historic commission or from the 18 18 1989 yes I still have them right right so I have the records from my mother-in-law and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of stuff in there about like the celebration of the Centennial right and how um they uh how they celebrated in Cranbury then and I imagine you know longtime residents Bobby I'm looking at you perhaps you know remember what cranberry may have done um I thought there was like a a walking tour of the Revolution and stuff and I don't know so that's think about maybe what what kind of things we could be doing to um number of years ago it was well I think they did it once it was uh walking tour in the fall was of the graveyards that was kind of interesting because you have the Revolutionary War section so you could talk about that yeah okay that's we could have it in Halloween too that it was a tie they did we did have a Halloween yes it was it was around Halloween it was well well attended okay um most of those people that did the tours are not living in crur anymore there's a lot okay that's a great idea but uh that's one that I mean kids might be in you know interested in that so um I have a pamphlets by John Chambers that he wrote about like revolutionary activity in the township um which is probably in his book as well but yeah he would be a great resource right right so I see the list of municipalities that are participating in this is there any um like uh Cross or collaboration yeah apparently that's a possibility um she like um because we have Rocky Hill close by we have Princeton and with the high school I mean we go to Princeton High School so there that's always a good tie in with our kids yeah we were thinking more about like adjacent likee or heightstown which I don't see on here no but I I don't think this is an exhaustive list because I think you know cranberry postdated this list so um as as communities are joining um cool to do like a bike race or a bike walk or a walk like a between several historic communities or or a following like a walk following Washington's path you know across the river up toon had some rectors through Tron up to Princeton I mean they had the reenactment of the crossing of the Delaware every year exactly I'm saying so like then like have it going to Trenton and then where they you know where they do test you know people and then they went toward Princeton and then I guess I don't know the battle Princeton did he get when did he come into G like that whole path like so I mean there is a path that already exists so if you go to like the revolution New Jersey website the 17 13 colleage B feature in that because supposedly they met somewhere out there yeah see that would be so fun B ride or like a um or like a wall like I don't but and she mentioned like maybe a reenactment that takes place would be something like that would be great okay so think about it and we may be asked to join in and participate and she'll be looking for a director for a a mega volunteer for the committee to pull it all together all right so that's what that was about um okay so approved minor and ordinary maintenance and repair yes we do mind if I go over now okay all right so the first one I have is 63 North Main Street that is a piece of chocolate signage I'm sure you've seen it already the 299 North Main Street that was a Princeton ballet they replaced the roof already it's already replaced yes uh one cranberry neck yeah there was leaks in it so they had to do it immediately one cranberry Neck Road they put in a Windows application one cranberry Neck Road also put in a front for the front porches and the porch posts 28 North Main Street they had the front porch and railings are only sprucing it up I believe she would just painting it it's just ordinary maintenance and repair 23 Station Road they are putting in a fence in their rear yard it was a chain link fence right but it was not seen at all from the street uh 38 North Main Street they are just putting in a couple of condensers which again is not seen at all from the street it's completely blocked by a fence solid fence so I have a question on the windows for one p Neck Road so those are windows that we've approved before is that yes yeah okay yeah there's a lot of conversation about the pches I just saw a lot of this work being done and I see a flurry of activity but they they put in their applications right away so and yeah so it was approved we're GNA be busy um okay where were we new homeowner letters new homeowner letters okay I do have some of them yes so 116 North Main Street I sent went out to 13 Bunker Hill one kraber Neck Road um 10 Sims Court 1 to five Scott Avenue and I just wanted to um let you know that a contractor did come in to discuss it I said did the owner mention anything about demo and he said no he did not mention anything about demo and he said he can't even afford it if you know he doesn't have the means for it anyway so he's definitely not going to do that so he said that the owner does want to keep it as is he just really wants it needs a lot of repair but he does want to keep it as is just so this is for your of Mind American hotel hotel so new owner yes and they're not demoing itre and they're not going try think about doing that yes that was the first one that I've gotten that said no so yes um they're G to keep it as a apartment yep that's what they said they want to keep it as a three yes okay good yep nice um and I sent one to two Wesley place that was it that's a lot yeah you and two pce I was by there today and they were doing some work on that house did they some repair work did they they did not give me anything for that no we do we notify them something like that what kind of work I did yeah okay little anos yeah Cottage what were they doing likei Sting the insulation was exposed and one of the somewhere in the front not not a big thing but I mean just in principle if he's going to be he's new in town he be aware of anything well they got their letter okay um let's talk about the 2024 HPC meeting schedule okay so I gave everyone so every quarter I have to give the clerk the attendance and that's why I just gave you guys this to highlight all of the meetings that were cancelled so just to give you a head up so many this year cancelled so the proposal is is to possibly next year just have it once a month now if there are a lot of applications that come in and there is a meeting that needs to be done there can always be a special meeting it can be called by the chair it can be called by three members so that can always be an option if it is needed so I'm not sure because this is the this is the only board with two meetings you still can have two meetings a month but that's just I just wanted to propose a possible one our applications um this year versus the last year is it about the same or is it less less the quantity quantity so I would say I think I don't know I've heard other towns it's like one I hear once a month yeah and it sort of makes sense if we're not get getting the number of applications um to have it yeah I I had thought that perhaps like the you know the first quarter into the second quarter would be busier because people are getting ready for warmer weather when they can do work but it's clearly not showing in the actual cancellations and I don't know if that that has to do with again with the issue or the way it is now with contractors the lead times you need to get somebody to do work is expensive expensive and the materials and everything long lead times materials that might have a factor cu the ones that we've reviewed I mean they haven't even started yet I it's this guy's going to be really busy he's going to be in every five minutes is he a contractor no no no he's a homeowner just a homeowner he bought the is it parsonage is that M house yeah and he's doing the work himself no no okay but he's been informed what he needs to do thank you okay so how do we feel about going to do a once a month schedule what is everyone's take I'm I'm okay with that I think yeah I'm because I feel like this year I with the signage project it was really good that we were meeting more often because I remember I felt like I was like really like waiting I I needed these meetings and I was actually in some ways it just started to slow down the project because a lot of these were cancelled um like I had stuff to share with y'all and then you know but next year should not be hopefully like same type of project although we have this and if you need said you can you request a meeting and then to discuss that and for that specific exactly how much what is the the time frame like how much how much notice do we need to give to call a special 48 Hours Just 4 open public meeting act yes I think knowing that we can speak out with schedule that I feel better then about that and then again this I I'm optimistic that next year we won't have it's something it won't be like the sage project which was this project so I just wanted to consult with you the members before I made a schedule for next year okay so any preference that you can inform homeowners if they have I don't know an emergency project or or something something they really want to get moving that they can tell us and and typically emergencies are you we can I me at administrative level you know so the chair can approve but if we need to review you just need three members I don't a special meeting has to be called anyway if they have a project that they want to do on the house they wanted to get started they to wait a month there' be some way to but if it's published on you on the website of how often we're meeting once a months what whatever is it you plan it yeah what's your preference is it the third week the first week any I say the first the first Tuesday first Tuesday of the month well what well I mean like November first Tuesday is always election day correct yeah and the Historic Society is always the first Monday yeah but yeah that might change one right after the other okay would you prefer the third yeah okay yeah third day of each month great thank you okay um all right let's talk about minutes meeting minutes for October 17th yeah I had one comment um on page two uh the second paragraph from the bottom starts with me chair Ryan indicated that the South River Road property that was from the 1700s will overlay on the tax maps I have no idea what what that means talk I wanted to I actually wanted to um I think that's important I was going to bring that up in new business okay that's gentle healing right that you're talking about I don't know what I'm talking about I you bringing up gentle healing gentle healing is getting very dilapidated I'm very concerned about gentle healing um and it's it's a it's a historic um the Victorian house yeah Victorian and there's another house on that property too word so I I'm following it the me the comment you don't remember said it I'm so I think uh missm okay it wasn't me I didn't bring it up I didn't bring it up okay so we can no it wasn't me it was someone else it wasn't me though but I remember but it it it impacted me because then I started thinking about gentle healing and then someone would tell me um about it um why they haven't brought anyone in there closed yeah like what they found problems with that um but yeah it wasn't me it must been Steve okay I can check I was think he has familiarity with the tax map yeah yeah I think it's that's yeah he's not here to yes it's not he's not here so we'll make it him okay that was it for me just made a few minor clarifications and uh from my statements you put it in I put it online and um I don't know if it's my my windows or word but there was a panel that came up it lists all the grammar it analyzes the document I never saw this before okay Ed and and you go through editor yeah and you just go through and you click on it it brings them all up and some of them the grammar and stuff and you can pick is that or ignore it like a lot of the stuff that is listed with the it's there's a few words in a colon and then something stated brought that up and I just said ignore because that's just the way you do it but some other things it was kind of helpful that just made it easy to focus in right on those uh items anyway so I just made a few few uh Updates this afternoon okay all are there any other comments on the meeting minutes may I have a motion to approve the minutes as amended motion second there you go all right roll call Miss Ryan yes Miss Marlo yes Miss s Meer yes and Mr Sao yes thank you motion passed okay um for discussion before I forget and we leave we need to talk about volunteer hours yes I was forgot about to say say it at at I was getting used to it okay roll call all right Miss Ryan uh I'm going to say two hours all right Miss Marlo sounds good two Miss sum one is it you sure one and a half uh Mr Sabo with the 1713 house I was there taking brick off this is for the last meeting right last that wasun so anyway learning about the history of that house um so with the two training courses that all right and then working on the minutes and other stuff for this 10 hours you won the prize for this week um and then the second thing I want to talk about is um a new uh application for um the commission someone applied put in their their volunteer application what about over here um the woman was here their last meeting Sally yeah Sally what about her she I'm not saying we have a vacancy I'm saying there's there someone put in a volunteer application and it was the gentleman who was sitting so um he applied to economic environmental I don't know two other planning planning board he has pest experience in that but really Bing in it's awesome so anyway if we do end up having an opening at the end of the year then it's something to consider and we should probably know that um maybe for the next meeting we should um check out everyone's terms unless you have that handy I can look it up you can look okay there should be some one a at least a couple I know who it is can we bring up a new business it is a discussion so yeah go ahead okay so can we talk about the gentle healing though because um do we have any ability to send a communication to the owner of gentle Ealing who's selling it because it's literally getting like rotting away and there's got to be some sort of like maintenance requirement for a home there is yeah the township passed that a number of years ago and Property Maintenance they have they have it's up to them to enforce it yeah so who could we could we send a note to someone you could put you could put a um I think you can submit a I don't know what it's called there's at least two on South M yeah you can you could there I know I know if you go on I would go online to the township website there is something because when the ordinance was passed it's anybody body can uh request I don't for the building inspecting somebody to go out and look at it or whatever and determine um you can do that you can do that on the township website I believe so the whole ordinance has that capability and it has and there's a couple of facets to it one is if the home is unoccupied then the owner has to provide to the township what they're doing to maintain it like keeping the grass mode there's like stuff growing on the keep the property clean building and stuff like that both the ones I mentioned I don't think either one is occupied right on South Main oh I know those two but those have been like that for a long time is that an excuse but the gentle healing happened like within like but again there is an there is an ordinance I'm sure someone's done stuff without those ones on self Me Maybe no I don't think anything's ever been done done yeah I the ordinance to my knowledge has never been enforced that's I I agree with Dave it's it's there spent a lot of time I remember coming to avilable and it's Avail you know but it it had to do with if there's broken windows you get them repaired if there's pieces of you know the building falling off the homes South Main though are sort of like are not like they don't have a lot of historical Integrity where yes they do absolutely you think those it it has nothing to do with is the first I don't want to be too yeah yeah Jennifer this has nothing to do with historic any property in town but they are they are both one is a bungalow and the other one is Old Colonial it's quite an old house yeah it is that I didn't realize the one for sale is it the one that's for sale right now oh okay so you don't think that we it is appropriate for us to to anybody can put it in as a as a as a person yes that you're concerned yeah okay so call it I would call the township if you can't find it on the website but there is I forgot the number of the ordinance I'll tell you what numbers they are if I pick it it up I don't what house number is but they both get what I would call Historic properties I mean certainly a you know a Grassman bunal that's it's at least 100 years old yeah I mean went through this other one is more than that with the farmhouse on um Plainsboro Road the P fall starting to fall down yeah that one I know that was all property M no excuse for that that's absolutely in the that one is horrible they are and they are not taking they're not doing anything on that house specifically in the deed and as a matter of fact the preservation commission is the overseer of that I mean we've in the past reported that to the CH committee and not interested yeah there's a an easement on that property 147 Plain spr Road um was an easement on the property that is held by the township and I uh had a long conversation with Lindsay at State about it where she said it's unusual for a Township to hold the hold the easement um and be in charge of it but we are but I don't know what that means as far as enforcement I think we're back in the same cycle it's it's absolutely written in the deed yes okay I mean you know demolition by neglect I mean that's what I'm feeling like I feel like that um the Gent gentle healing building is starting to rot away and um given where it is you know it's sort of on a thorough fair if if it continues to be like this then eventually the owners will say like oh demo my neglect you know and let's turn it into a warehouse or whatever you know um it's you know it's just it's unfortunate because it's pretty yeah yeah no excuse for that okay any other discussion items no no okay I'll open this portion of the meeting to the public yeah I'm sorry we lost our guest and I'll close this portion of the meeting to the public um and we're ready to adjourn have a motion toj you you did send me those yeah we asked about earlier in the meeting we asked about some other oh is there another item are you guys okay no earlier in the meeting we were talking about getting the addresses for some other property and I forgot which other the agricultural yeah we're gonna make a list of all yeah sorry that's okay right may I have a second to the motion to adjourn second right favor say I I right thank you so much okay so what I should have asked is our having a meeting next week I can't make this week I'll be out of town right yes next we yes