##VIDEO ID:MONIxKVhYOQ## disc start it's uh couple minutes after 8 um I'll do a statement of adequate notice we're only going to be hearing uh Dennis William statement of adequate notice first oh okay I statement of adequate notice under the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act was provided on January 18th 2024 of this meeting's date time and location the agenda was mailed to the cranber press and Trenton Times posted on the Township bulton Board will mailed to those requesting personal notice and file with the municipal clerk roll call Mr Bon valant here Mr Diamond here Mr Callen here Mr nisson is not able to attend today Miss Parker here Mr Schwarz here Mr McGovern here Mr cathari advised us he was not able to attend today and Miss Mok advised us she was not able to attend today but we do have a chair Quorum we do have a quorum chair okay so we'll only be hearing uh Dennis Williams today uh jodine Miller has been moved to September 4th say why did you want to announce the reasoning why um sure this on okay good evening everyone my name is Martina Bailey I'm board counsel this evening stepping in for Ed um yes the application for the nail salon um that was to be heard tonight was on the agenda um the applicant didn't provide the Affidavit of public publication as you know there are two items that the applicant has to provide um with respect to notice for a board a zoning board to hear the application one is the um proof of service which the applicant did provide unfortunately she did not provide she thought she had submitted the um the notice to the local paper there it sounded like there was some miscommunication and she didn't realize that the notice actually had not gone through so that was not done um 10 days ahead of the meeting and unfortunately that that's a jurisdictional defect and the the board can't take jurisdiction without that notice and so she's been informed um she unfortunately has to renot uh the the the whole application for the for the next um uh hearing which he's been informed of so okay thank you okay so this is uh Dennis Williams D1 use variance for hot dog heart um I listened to uh the audio from last month I missed last month so I'm completely up to date I went through all the materials so I feel confident that I'm completely up to date uh I do I do know that you had some homework to do uh is should we start with that and uh find out what uh what happened what discussions you had I just want to announce to the chair if you don't mind that Mr schwar also listened to the recording so he is able to eligible to vote as well okay on his application good evening Mr Williams I'm going to swear you in again as we did last time if you could raise your right hand and just swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth yes lovely so sworn and please just state your name Dennis Williams thank you please proceed yeah um I was um was trying to put up the hot dog stand uh in my horseshoe driveway at my property at 55 Station Road but um the big concern were where all the big trucks and the cars were Park so I decided to ease everybody mind that you know I put it at my corner lot in my driveway where Liberty Way at you all the trucks and cars and go down Li way drive around Logan and come back out to station row just to EAS everybody mind with the trucks in car parking yes Andrew yes and told me it was a good idea to put it there at that corner down there Mr Williams I'm going to stop you for a second um we're going to swear you I'm sorry oh please raise your right hand Mr fando do you swear or affirm that the testimony she'll give will be the two I do thank you and just for the record please fanda f andda with shopshire Associates thank you and yes we did have a chance to talk I uh went over the transcript uh from the meeting uh transcript the minutes of the meeting uh and I did uh speak with Mr Williams um I understand that originally The Proposal was to put the hot dog stand in the driveway and we talked about an alternative uh to move it uh to the intersection of Station Road and Liberty way I went through with Mr Williams um the different um thoughts I had as a traffic engineer um since then I've had some more thoughts but i' I'd like uh for you to describe exactly how this would work um where you would keep the cart how you would get the cart to the corner where the cars would park if they're at the corner and then maybe I could bring up some points well I'm planning on keeping the cart in my bar the yes and the car is is pushable so I can just push it to the corner and all the cars can park on Liber way it's it's a big wide Street and all the cars and trucks and stuff can get go and go and turn on Logan and come back right out to Station Road when you say push the cart would that be push it in the road uh or no can just push it right across my grass yes okay because there's no sidewalk in front of your house that you could no um the corner that you have there's shrubs and bushes um would the cart be visible from all Corners yes from both ways from from both ways on station row East and West um just for the board's information I know uh that cranbery Township has been sensitive to pedestrians along uh Station Road there is a crosswalk across Liberty Way on both sides of Liberty Way yes there is no crosswalk across uh Station Road and my understanding there may have been an accident in the past uh with a pedestrian trying to cross Station Road um so there would have to be a lot of caution with uh anything out at that intersection that might draw pedestrians uh to that location and I understand that there uh parking would occur say on way and they wouldn't necessarily have to cross the road yes I guess the concern of the board uh my concern too is how popular your hot dog stand becomes and how many cars would park is that large trucks that are parking a mix of couple large trucks and vehicles um what do you anticipate for the uh what my client tell to stop by at lunchtime at dinner time and how many well basically I'm only really set the car just for the basic general area for the people that work in the warehouses now I couldn't give you an estimate on how many cars coming up and down Station Road will you know stop by but basically just for the people that work around the warehouses when you had the cart in your driveway near your garage you had eight parking spaces one handicap parking space so that gives an idea of how many uh cars and Park people you would anticipate coming to the site um your driveway is circular it's like a horseshoe yes for that alternative to have the cart in your driveway uh your driveway would have to be made one way so that there would not be yes one way traffic going in two directions because it's not wide enough for two direction traffic there are eight parking or eight parking spaces including the one handicap spot yes is there a surface for the handicap or for the uh hot dog cart to be on is that near it'll be on the grass at the curb right in the Hors up the end the road not all the way back to the house I plan on heading up there by the road so that it can be seen yes um I'm not sure if the board originally asked about any signs uh that would be required for this cart okay uh it's not just a cart that's being visible it's also sign um there is sidewalk uh up at the corner near the police station the police station's back but yes sidewalk stops at the property line yes do people typically walk on the grass I know maintain your grass very well and it's level but people still they come from the wouse still walk on the grass and then there's more sidewalk as you get down to the intersection where I said there's a crosswalk across yes that go all the way down to Route 130 what would be your Provisions for a truck if you did have the cart in the driveway well the only place a big truck would be able to park it it would park in the middle of the Dead yellow lines I don't know what you call that the gore area in the middle they they come there and they park there anyway I guess they get little directions or whatever they do they park there they they eventually just park there you know do whatever they do that's probably not a good idea for somebody to park in the middle of the road and get out of their truck uh can I interrupt for a second we we have just to help the board visualize what you're referring to because I was wondering what you mean by the yellow striped um part of that road we we do have an additional submission from the applicant since the last hearing um Mr Williams could you describe for that for the board what that is um and it's the it's a site plan rendering um it's this that I'm talking about okay and perhaps we could Mark that um I think we're up to exhibit A5 at this point it'll be a A5 I think we'll call this and we'll call that a site plan rendering and can you can you just describe for the board what what this is and and where it came from who prepared it oh the U when they uh built the warehouse around the area they when they did instruction on the road they designated me a left hand turn into my driveway and they end up putting them goals there for the big trucks to park there I guess for emergency or whatever they need to pull off for directions or or whatever they need to do there but they they Park they all Park in there when they ever coming up and down the road okay M and Mr F the the Go is is um if we're looking at the the first page of the site plan chosen area is it is it this area we're talking about it's the area in the center of the road uh that's um immediately east of the left turn arrows that would be pointing to the driveway yes what it is is diagonal striping in the middle of the road yes so you have traffic on one side there is traffic going in the westbound Direction traffic going in the eastbound Direction and then there's a left turn lane There's an actual uh storage Lane for his driveway yes and then just beyond that as you go uh further east uh towards the entrance of uh Locust Drive there's area in the middle of the road that is striped out which typically means no vehicle should be there no vehicle should be traveling in that area certainly Vehicles should not be parking in that area because that would mean somebody opens a door and would have to get out on either side which is alive Lane so parking there would not be an option you're not asking the people be pered to park there are you no the big trucks park there anyway I mean I don't have nothing to do with that he just mentioned that he thought the trucks because they're trucks they I don't tell know however and we discussed this that um on Liberty Way it's a very wide Road trucks do use that the radi are made for truck turning and you said that potentially trucks could park on Liberty Way yes because they got a the Volkswagen right there so big trucks go all the way down to the end and go into the uh the receiving area to you know to drop off a liy or pick up a delivery and they come right back but it's wild enough for cars and big trucks to fit on and that would be the option for trucks no matter where you located your uh hot dog cart if they were in if your cart is in your driveway the trucks could park down there or if the cart is at the corner yes getting back to the corner scenario um there are bushes shrubs trees at that corner enough room for your cart on level ground yes it is and is there enough room for people to gather around your cart yes it is is it sidewalk yes it is sidewalk go from that edge of that corner all the way down to Logan and cross Logan all the way down to the end and when you say all the way down you mean all the way to the end of the tree line down there pass the house that's behind you or the office that's behind you office behind me go all the way down past ao's wagon on both sides I believe there's no parking um the curb is uh painted yellow which typically means no parking and that's probably in this case to allow the trucks to turn into Liberty way so that would mean neither cars nor trucks could park at that location up to the corner now certainly as you mentioned their sidewalk they could park further and walk up the concern would be that somebody this might attract parking closer to the cart and you wouldn't want them to be encouraged to park in that yellow area again a truck might be heading west on Station Road and want to turn into Liberty way yeah but I don't think no it's no yellow curve there there that corner it's no yellow at all it's a little walkway to come across the cross Liberty way it's a little walkway to come up to my property line and then the rest of the sidewalk all the way down on both sides but it's no yellow believe there's a fire hydrant right fire hydrant right there yes and that's another reason why they couldn't park there they couldn't park there anyway um certainly you wouldn't want to block a fire hydrant either because that has to be access in emergency situation for yes fir truck uh have you approached the county for any of this at this point yes my wife had talked to the uh guy for M6 County uh traffic controller I thought maybe he already probably sent over some information I mean he really didn't give me no kind of answer after we gave him exactly what we wanted to do and he just said okay and that was it this name was Julio so okay and he didn't say anything about your driveways and how that might he just wanted to know the location where we going put it at and that was it okay would you be doing any work on your driveway or your driveway would stay and and you would be adding parking spaces or you going to repave the whole driveway and parking spaces in you know in your lot um by the garage if I was to do anything I would just put the parking spaces there I won't be doing the work on the driveway no work on the drive how would the parking spaces be delineated so that people would park in a space rather than would painted lines you would be painting lines painted lines yes there's a solid surface that these lines can be painted on it's it's a tall driveway oh okay it's already yes it's already T way yes okay I think it would be good for the board to ask questions and certainly I can uh answer answer any questions that the board might have as well but I I again I did speak uh with Mr Williams and looked at the site um looked at uh the plans that he had submitted as well as the minutes so I have a little background driven by the site many times so one question um even if um we discussed that um with the original plan it would need to be reviewed by the county and approved by the county is that also true of if it's on the corner of uh Liberty way that it still needs County approval I believe if you're putting a hot dog stand along the County Road Route especially if it's in the county right of way and I do not know where the right of way begins and ends but if it's in the county right of way they certainly would uh have interest and would probably want an application to see U how this is going to work the the proposed location on Liberty Way is that in the county right away you know I don't know where the right of way line is long station uh Road Liberty Way is a Township Road so at some point uh it becomes Township right away okay is that a benefit for Mr Williams down and push it towards Township domain Yes except visibility would be reduced as you push it further away from Station Road um that's my thought with uh visibility would be important too you certainly don't want somebody passing it seeing it over their shoulder and making a movement that they shouldn't make to U-turn or uh slow down quickly and make the turn so it should be uh and this goes for the driveway as well it it should be uh well uh identified so that anybody passing by knows where it is and wouldn't be wandering the road slowly making improper turns or u-turns that should be discouraged and an identification in some way whether it's the hot dog cart by itself being the identification or some kind of sign I think there's a hot dog sign I heard about on the recording right yes yeah I have a question is um are you done let me just ask one more is it your opinion that uh the Liberty Way the corner there is a a more safe location than the driveway to accept traffic and patrons that's an interesting question because one location the driveway location brings the traffic and the pedestrians into the site and all of that occurs on the site you just have to get in and out of the driveway and again there's a left turn lane there that helps store for left turns coming in I would recommend that there not be left turns out of the driveway because you're Crossing across a left turn lane and trucks traveling in either direction so that would be a difficult movement but something that the county would be looking at rather than the township because it's the county jurisdiction there left turns in or fine right and right turns in or right turns out would be fine the left turn out of the driveway would be a concern for somebody crossing over that traffic down at the corner the intersection is configured for all those movements my biggest conc concern there is the parking is now out in public space uh pedestrian movements are in public space there is a sidewalk and that's a good thing um because pedestrians could then use the sidewalk Liberty Way is a lower volume Road although there is truck traffic that would use it for the warehouse but it's lower volume uh I would be concerned if there's any distraction of a cart and people standing around a cart at the intersection that could cause um somebody trying to make a left or a right or a distraction uh for people traveling through that intersection the county wouldn't want that type of distraction um of a commercial cart being right up on the road especially if it's within their right of way the county probably will have concerns protection of you and your cart as well should something happen the intersection there's a cart and people at the intersection so the other site if it's on his property it's into the site and there wouldn't be uh that public um exposure to the roadway and traveling on the roadway question was um how what's the from Station Road to the first parking lot on the office building on Logan Station Road toing Lot you see your first parking lot there like what's that distance from here to here where we're we're you're on the property you're going to put it right on the corner yes smack dab on the you're going to take all them trees down and just have it right on the corner that that's where you're going to put it right down on the corner not taking I a't taking no Tre there's no trees to be taken down really no cuz I'm still going to be on my property my property line you can see East and you can see West by me having the cart right there at the corner even though I got Bluey they s back up on the road who drew who who who drew this up for you this is this the right one I'm looking at yes did you see all these trees they go right to the street yeah but not trees you're going to go you're going to go in front of the trees on on Liberty Road or excuse me if this might help I printed out some Google street images that show where the sidewalk is if I could pass these around if these did you did you make these or you had somebody make them different Ang but there's three of them show the trees sure let's cool this you can call it aerial uh street view exhibits street view exhibits of Corner Station Road and Liberty Way and there's three images from different angles so you could see uh Where the Sidewalk is uh there is a handicap ramp there you can see the crosswalk you can see the trees set back yeah I only saw this year that's why I was asking so so what was the distance from the corner to the first parking lot where the B is at yeah that's where I'm looking there that's what I was wondering with Andrew I'm going to say what's the setback from the corner where a comparted is it 15 foot or 18 the setbacks from the road to the yeah so you're coming down um station and you make a right onto Liberty how far back does the first car have to park or track the trail is there enough room for a car to go around down the road also by Statute you're not allowed to park within 50 feet of an intersection so that's the absolute minimum if the curb is painted yellow meaning no parking and I can just barely tell from the uh Google image I I forget from driving by whether it's painted yellow or not yellow means no parking in that area and then the fire hydrants on the fire hydrants right on the corner and that could be seen right in the uh pictures there yeah you got hand but like he's say You're supposed to be 50 foot from an intersection and I know you know and again you also asked about the driveway the office driveway that's about 200 feet from the intersection so there there would be some space in there if you pull a tractor trailer in there that would take up most of that space yeah so you're going to be on the end how far from the corner in will your hot dog wagon be P the fire hydrant 15 15 you're going to have to take down the trees some of them just to get like people to see your cart CU it like he said they're going that way how are they going to make it you know you going to be covered over there where you see the hand i'm be on the left side on the right side I'm not be where the walkway yeah I see what you're saying on this one so you're going to be on Station Road itself [Music] yes see the east from the West 13 you definitely can see did you see these yeah okay then that be that oh sorry how do we do this there's two possible locations uh we can't really I are we approving we denying both or I how how are we going to go about doing it with two possible locations here I I think the applicant would have to choose one of them yeah and the board would have to decide if that's the acceptable location if the other location is also acceptable then if that's your choice and the board will will consider that um because this they present slightly different issues you see um okay I ask another question sure what what made you change your your mind from like the location we started at to this one this from the last meeting I was here the mostly concerned about you know people parking on the side of Station Road and the parking in my driveway so I was considering I say well if that was a big issue I would like well Liberty Way is the most better spot because cars can turn in from both ways and they got plenty of space and plenty of room for cost pop you got worry about a lot of people coming in got to find which way coming in out the driveway everybody pull in don't live way and go around Logan and come back out the Station Road I I've been listening to this thing I thought we had a conclusion from last meeting apparently things have been shaken up thank you very much Andrew I have no my personal feeling is is such I have no problem approving the application conditionally approving it as long as two things occur I want the county to say okay and I want the middle sex County Health officer to say okay if they so I guess if we conditionally prove it and they say okay I have no problem okay because there the traffic's the thing that bothers me is the is the traffic my personal feeling is that if there's a truck that's heading towards a Turnpike he's going to park on the shoulder this is my I may be wrong he's going to park on the shoulder on the eastbound side of the road and he's going to run across the road if he's heading west towards 130 he's going to park on the shoulder where I don't know he's going to either park on the shoulder or he's going to pull into Liberty weight the cars hopefully will pull into your driveway people do stupid things that's for the county because they're going to be a heck a lot more knowledgeable than I am thank you um what what one comment I have is that I mean but looking at the two possible States I I agree that I don't think it makes a difference in terms of parking on the shoulder of Station Road uh large trucks parking on the shoulder it's not going to make a huge diff difference for that although maybe it's a slight benefit of doing it in your Liberty way because they have somewhere else to go uh uh I think there's a disadvantage of putting it there is that cars probably will not Park in his driveway if we put it there right so uh you know this a tough one um but we can't say you need to put it here need to put it there that has to be your decision but uh I me keep that in mind though because uh you know again I think that there's a a benefit of the tractor trailers uh not possibly not parking on Station Road if we put it near Liberty away but then you'll have more cars parked on the street than if you put it on in front of your house so yeah to do a traffic survey I mean I don't know if I'm stepping out a little bit but if you put something there and then like how do you do a survey if you did it I'm not sure what a survey it would just tell you the volume on the road the speed of the vehicles traveling by but would we want to see how many vehicles are parked on Liberty Way um those things I guess could be done but I'm not sure um there would be a whole lot of information that would lead to a conclusion like a pre hot dog stand where we would put it up and see how people par like test run but I mean that I I don't know if this is for the lawyer or the expert the um if we approve this tonight right it's use right use right and then we find that no matter how good Mr Williams is at managing the traffic it's a disaster and there are traffic tractor trailers parked all over the road and it's liberty way in front of the fire hydrant is the zoo what happens what what do what do we as the township do uh my understanding you could put conditions that no parking uh beond the road um now I don't know if that it requires an ordinance by committee to say no parking along the road but truly there is no area for trucks large trucks to park on either side there's a small shoulder but it's not really meant for parking of a tractor trailer no I understand but so we just say to K I'm just making this up you can have your hot dog car in the Horseshoe whatever I'm just making and it just goes crazy and there are tractor trailers parking everywhere doesn't everything else aside doesn't the township have the power to go you can't park there regardless of the use variants right I don't know the question well two things one you you can impose conditions that require that if um Meeting those conditions um does not work or proves to create other problems that the applicant has to come back to the board now enforcing that can be difficult but I think it would become quite obvious you know to people driving by if that were the case God forbid right God forbid as somebody said perhaps someone parks on the eastbound side a tractor trailer dude parks on the eastbound side of of station jumps out of his cab runs across thing gets hit pedestrian gets hit yeah I mean I imagine we're going to be back here right and be like this this no yes and and just to be clear I mean what are the restrictions on parking along Station Road do you know and I and I'm sure that the county would um would have something to say about that if you know I I I assume that trucks can't just park there all day well there's practical restrictions meaning it's not configured the shoulders aren't wide enough the the roadway has a lane in each Direction um the county uh has the jurisdiction so it's really up to the county whether there's parking or not parking and typically they want their Road uh free of any obstructions which would be people getting out of vehicles and walking into say live Lanes which are traveling in that area it's 45 50 miles an hour and you have trucks from the warehouses coming and going so I I see no other answer from the county other than that would not be allowed on this road again it's County's jurisdiction my opinion of what they would say is they don't want trucks parking along a roadway which is provided for access to the warehouses but we could make that regardless of the jurisdiction we could make that a condition tonight absolutely that could be a of the that all parking be contained in the site and uh trucks would have to find their way in il legal if he does his best right and he control it right then he gets shut down is that right that would be up to the zoning officer to enforce any conditions that sounds like right right like hey it's a condition he got his approval but it's not abiding by the conditions and the zoning officer would have to be like no man you can't do this right is that fair is that okay that would be my understanding yes but in addition you know as Mr Cullen suggested that the County's approval would have to be a condition of of any approval of this board as well and if the county doesn't approve it then you know then you can't do [Music] it the doesn't have the it's the county right that would have to do yes that's right we could make it a condition of this approval yeah we can make it a condition of this approval now another thing that you mentioned the zoning officer the zoning officer in reality sorry the zoning officer in reality doesn't do anything unless somebody complains he doesn't go look for for problems that's a reality so unless somebody literally sends in a written letter and complains about it the zoning officer is not going to do anything he's he works here what one day a week two two sorry two and I don't think they're full days four hours okay so he works here maybe the equivalent of one day a week I think that's right he has enough on his plate and he's not he doesn't go around the town looking for zoning violations so and something terrible would probably have to happen in reality okay if or unless the police saw something or I was just about to say reality police would probably enforce it before a zoning officer would get out there the police they're right around the corner so they'd be driving by and they would see it often enough and if there's a truck Park where it shouldn't be they have the right to write a ticket you're parking in a not illegal spot and that goes for anything close to the corner as well they uh they know the law title 39 law about 50 foot from an intersection so if somebody parked too close that again it this is not necessarily a burden you want to put on your Police Department to start writing tickets for parking uh and that certainly wouldn't help his business Thrive to be having parking tickets on cars parked to stop for a hot dog stand but again in the driveway he has the parking spaces for the vehicles it would only be then limited to the trucks and is this a practical place for trucks to stop and park if the hot dog stand is in his driveway the Practical spot would be further down at Liberty Way and would they then walk from that corner up to his hot dog stand that that would be the option if a truck had to park for a hot dog stand in his driveway the better spot is to park on Liberty Way not not the hot dog wagon should be on the corner instead of in front of his house is that what your my opinion would be it be better in his driveway using his own property rather than out in public space because I don't even know where the right of way ends I don't I can't be saying anything about where he can locate if the county RightWay is there I don't want to tell him to put it at the corner that could be uh County jurisdiction did you talk to the police department of how many accidents been there in the last couple couple years I know this intersection has been discussed between the police department between the township and the county yeah so I would I think better by his house my personally myself instead of a corner that corner is rough man I've been some bad wrecks over there and you know my own personal thought is it reasonable to have a condition that would have us say trucks should be parking on what well that probably be the owner of the business right that's why he's moving that Tech no no but what I hear Mr fando say is that he likes it in the in the U because that's where the cars can park yeah but if a truck wants to park they should Park on Liberty Way and walk the 50 feet to his I agree yeah you're right I think that could be a condition appr is is there a a pathway or something between I think this is a parking lot for the office building you know the the old house office building is there a pathway from there to to your driveway the back way it's a little paway go between the hes that in in my property to to the driveway back there is yes that helps I think this is a question for the expert can on private property can you put a sign dirting trucks to park somewhere where else I mean if he if he has something that says car parking this way and trucks must park around the corner to help I'm not sure if you could put a sign to have trucks park in public right of way um I'm not sure how that would work uh the sign would be on his property directing them down to the intersection and park along Li Liberty way I don't know that there would be anything stopping any Resident from putting their own sign up I don't think this could be a municipal sign right um and it's probably not enforceable for that reason but if if if there's no parking allowed anyway on that right of way you're you're really just trying to make sure it doesn't happen and there's no reason why you could have a sign to try and make that clear to trucks exactly like car parking here truck parking is available around the corner away from my property thank you very much okay another question and this is a funky question in terms of witness versus Committee Member right so Joe is on the volunteer fire department and so we can't meet obviously and talk about this kind of stuff on her own outside of this room but it sounds like Joe has firsthand knowledge of the frequency of accidents on Liberty Way and Station Avenue I know nothing about that and I don't know if anybody else does but I don't it's public record you I said Andrew you could go to police station you could go down or fire well that's all I'm saying is can you speak to that now or is that not per I say oh I'm asking yeah I don't know I just said I've been on there I can say on record that the county uh is sensitive to that intersection and movements at that intersection there have been accidents on Station Road that's a known fact and they are concerned about that intersection so okay so then back to Steve's question right is it sounds like although the corner there might be wonderful then probably not if if if there seems to be a sense that there have been various accidents at that intersection so then Steve was saying well maybe the cart should be in the U of the driveway but if people want to go and park down there and walk over to the C right you can do that the hybrid solution if you will am am I hearing that we really don't know how the township feels about parking on Liberty Way is that what basically what would happen if the town says we don't want anybody parking on Liberty Way the county says we don't want anybody parking on Station Road then all the parking would have to be contained on site and that's how yeah but you can't put a tractor trailer you're not going to put a tractor trailer into that for put up a sign no trucks practically tractor trailers would be prohibited from going to is if a tractor trailer wanted to go to a McDonald's They can't drive through the drive-thru and there's no parking for tractor trailers on that site so they would by configuration of the site they would have to pass and to the site that is configured for that type of parking no I'm just asking the question because you know I don't want to do something and suddenly the town says you know we don't want any parking along Liberty Way for for whatever reason I'm not even going to figure out you know their thinking but I have no idea of you know how they would look upon trucks parking on way they may say fine they may say no way Jose I I don't know we have a Township Committee Member [Laughter] here but I I mean parking is either permitted or it's not and if it's permitted there's no reason why cars or trucks you know couldn't couldn't use it and walk to the hot dog stand but I don't think the township I mean if the if if that Township Road started being used by a lot of cars accessing your site and somebody said hang on that's a problem you know obviously there would have to be an ordinance that prohibits parking but if it doesn't sound like that's the case currently the cars can park down there I have observed cars parking down there and I believe those cars sometimes trucks might be associated with the warehouse that they're waiting to get in the warehous or some workers Park along the side there I've seen that uh just observationally so I believe parking does occur uh and and that wouldn't preclude his parking or anyone else's parking that would be public parking at that point getting back to the plan he does provide eight spaces on site for the hot dog stand so that's covering himself on site uh any off-site parking that could happen with any site plan somebody could park up the street and walk to the site um but the site has to have its own parking for what it feels what's appropriate for to contain its on-site parking as I previously said at the last meeting I visited the site and I drove in there and even though the drawing shows you know certain number of parking SP spaces in reality there's a heck of a lot more room than you see here because that's a very wide you know entrance way there's a lot of a lot of space there's a lot of space so you could probably get 10 12 cars in there without a problem and they wouldn't be interfering with it that's the reality of it it's the trucks that I'm concerned about right if this becomes so popular that he has 30 cars in there that could become issue where cars are blocking the driveway you can't get in and out but I'm not I'm not sure that that's where this is going this is going to be a couple a handful or two of people stopping by and that's the way it's set up with the eight parking spaces so I think that's what we're talking about and you're right it will self-limit the trucks from stopping here this will be the workers who are in their cars who want to stop bying get the hot dog I don't think unless some trucker is very hungry and they want to go down to Liberty Way and park and they're want their exercise they can do that if that's available to them but that would be their choice certainly it would not be good if they started parking on Station Road and I think the as we noted before the police will be the first to catch that and they'll likely get a ticket you know the way I look at it you know if if um he's providing car parking for for a bunch of cars um this is really no different than I don't know the Burger King on 130 which can't I don't think a tractor trailer can go in there and if uh you know plenty of cars can park there a tractor trailer can't fit in there if a tractor trailer wants to stop there they got to find a place to park somewhere legally that's not our problem you know yeah yeah that's how I see it I just corner I think the house area is better than the corner I agree I just think that's you know I think that's definitely better with the parking then hey trucker parks where he Parks you need a ticket probably better keeping the cart close to the house rather than pushing it down because my concern is that' be pushed down in the road and you don't want somebody walking along a cart in the road the grass seems like an area to do it but if you look at what's in those Google Images there's a lot of grass there and if it's a wet day or if it's soggy in the grass it's going to be hard to push that cart whereas in his driveway he has it all set up it's very near and on the corner there's people walking by your cart you're not in a room you have customers somebody has to walk in the road to go around your F could be trouble for you also okay so you know I'm just all right any other board comments do we have anyone from the public that wants to say anything okay tell us yep that's a good point so uh based on what we've talked about where would you prefer that we yes it would be the hor you okay can I make a motion is that approprate make a motion now to approve before we do that we do have to consider a couple of other things um because there are some design waivers and for the record we should just go over those and um the planning report identifies those that's on page two and Mr Williams what this is are there some other requirements having to do with things like setbacks that apply and because um because a lot of those requirements for example uh there's a requirement the parking areas for non-residential uses shall be not permitted within 25 ft from any property line um or 10 feet from any building now um those are all requirements that contemplate the use different uses not the one that you're proposing and so we would all the board would also have to consider exceptions from those requirements because they're all triggered by if the board approved your application tonight and granted you a use variance there's some other things that they would also have to approve and those are identified on page two and three of the plannner reports I count five design waivers um and they are sort of parking areas for non-residential uses should be not uh shall not be permitted within 25 ft from any property line or 10 ft from any building the next one is that required parking and loading births for non-residential users shall not be located on streets access aisles or driveways mhm um you have you have all parking spaces should be provided with permanent and durable curbing where such curbing uh where such curbing will not be provided M uh the need for off Street loading should be determined at the time of site plan review where off Street loading will not be provided now I I don't think there is a we're not considering a site plan application tonight so I I'm not sure that that one applies um but the board should should consider it and Grant it in I think um in the event that you do have a site plan application the last one is a two-way driveway measuring 30 feet in width is required for commercial uses where less than 30 feet is provided and as we know from your testimony and from the submission tonight of the the site plan drawing the driveway is here are 12 ft so you would need an excep from that requirement um and all of those exceptions would flow from um you know a change in use if if if the board were to grant that um and the standard for a waiver it's not a variance it's we refer to these as waivers or exceptions which have a slightly more flexible standard um as long as they're um within the purpose and intent of the ordinance um um and um you know that the board can cons consider consider a waiver on a reasonable standard um and if you know the other part of that requirement is if if the literal enforcement of the requirement would cause undue hardship or it wouldn't wouldn't be practicable for you um the board can consider it for those reasons and I think it's it's fairly clear that if the board granted the use variants you wouldn't be able to comply with those requirements so the board would really have to Grant those in addition um because the use contemplates um um you know an exception from those requirements can we go over uh very quickly the conditions that were discussed last month okay they're in the minutes I gu sure forgive me I didn't mark them as condition so I'm just reading through my notes um I think one of the conditions was that the hot dog stand would be a um a hand a manual driven cart I don't think there was a a dimensional limit but as long as it's um it it can only be operated as a um by hand unless the board wanted to consider a size limitation I think we said last time it can't be trailer towable no can't be TR conditions okay we had the um owner Opera yes the cart can only be operated by a resident of the dwelling on the property right whe whether that's somebody from your family or somebody else the operator has to be resident okay the property sell yeah that runs with the land yes we talked about that yeah um the the county has to approve that's a condition um and the municipal Health officer is approval that's a condition the two others I took notes from for removing the card at night yes it in the garage yes and then uh signage would not block any sight lines on the driveway that's what yes I think okay that's it for conditions all right motion to I I think we discussed two possible other ones tonight and one condition or at least these might be proposed conditions would be all parking all car parking be contained on the site yes and then the other one was if if it is going to be if the hot dog cart is going to be located in the Horseshoe driveway that you add signs directing oneway traffic through through your driveway yes okay okay so motion to approve with those conditions uh i' like to make a motion that we uh vote on the um variance as with the conditions as proposed by our lle lawyer I wouldn't go that far but um and in addition the waiver the um the exceptions that we listed the five exceptions yeah yeah those are the conditions the waivers wory the standards and the um those five items on the planners report that we that that we listed I'm using engineering terms you're using legal I need a second second okay roll call Mr buav balant yes Mr Diamond yes Mr Callen yes Miss Parker yes Mr Schwarz yes and Mr McGovern thank you motion passed great congratulations congratulations no I forgot to do that when we started so we have minutes from July 10th I was not here so do we need a motion yeah does anybody have any comments any comments good point any comments on the minutes yes before he can go get his license and all that he's going to come back to us with the approval from the county and the health department is that how it works it's I I don't know how resolution compliance Works in Cranberry um usually the applicant would work with the township engineer um that's how it usually happens in other jurisdictions and the engineer would go through that list of of conditions and make sure that um you you either met them or will meet them and um and then provide you with a a sign off so I think be done until that happens right so you can't start operating until those conditions have have been met we'll find out or like we'll get a the counties I'm just curious to see what they say and like how like how do we find out call me I'll let you know oh okay okay so any comments on last month's minutes okay motion to approve the minutes or we need to just do no motion second motion to I make a motion to approve the minutes second all right roll call to approve the July 10th 2024 minutes Mr Bon balanta yes Mr Callen yes Miss Parker yes and Mr McGovern yes thank you motion pass and that's it motion toour motion tol y have a good night me a second to second I said all in favor say I rest of summer a good rest of Summer everybody see you later thanks for the help did a great job thank you