so let's call the finance committee meeting to order at 50:4 PM for July 22nd 2024 um first order is minutes from last time I move that we accept the the revised version of the minutes second any discussion no oh just a question um y related to the minutes um were we going to wait till a future meeting to discuss the cost of electricity for the vehicle Chargers yes that being okay it's on tonight's agenda um but we'll and we can talk about the agenda for a second so um there's I put a bunch of stuff on the agenda in case we had time to talk about it and had the stuff ready um so review of end of year financial statements they're not ready yet so we're not going to do that um EMS rent we have one of our handouts is uh um is EMS rent so we can do that the EV Chargers um Bren you may want to comment Brenda is still working on Gathering data so we're not really ready to do that yet correct I I have some good numbers in some regard but not good numbers in regards to the solar uh the Solar Company has apparently been um charging us incorrectly for the last six months um they never got the schedule Z updated in their systems so I need to figure that out so fa way well the amount is still the same what they're charging us but they're they've charged incorrect departments so they charg the EV charart for something that should have been charged somewhere else and I haven't been able to address that or figure it out yet yeah we probably should V on yeah so back to the minutes any other discussion on the minutes no all those in favor uh against extensions that passes 501 um so why don't we do EMS rent since that's fairly straightforward um so that was the separate handout looks like this um we asked last time we were meeting we were talking about EMS rent and we wanted to make sure that the rent we were getting covered the expenses that we had um so Brenda pulled the numbers together do you want to it's kind of evident but right so uh we've been charging uh the EMS operation since fiscal year 2019 for the rent on that building and the $9,000 per year is what goes into our general fund to cover any maintenance so you can see that we've Tak taken in 54,000 in a period of 6 years and in that same period the amount that we've actually spent on any kind of maintenance for that building has been $23,800 185s um you can see the first two years there weren't any expenditures at all for the building um and it you know it it has um fluctuated since then you'll see in fiscal 21 there was 1,200 fiscal 22 7700 fiscal 23 2600 and then in fiscal 24 was the jump um partly due to the expenditure to uh install the exhaust system rent all goes into a revolving fund right no um so 75% of the rent goes into a stabilization fund and 25 goes into our general fund okay yeah and the 25% is supposed to cover um all of the maintenance that that we have general maintenance so this revenues is incorporates both the stuff that goes into General and stuff that's just general fund oh so the amount that that goes into um the stabilization fund is much more and we've used some of that we've used some of it for the paving we've used some of it now for um or we will be for their emergency uh alert system uh some of it for the uh EV charging station that will be there at the building um I want to say there's still $997,000 in the stabilization fund it doesn't you know it when you charge $36,000 a year for rent it's not going to add up real fast um but it should be there for the big things these charges do they include things like um mowing or plowing or anything like that yes oh they do okay yep yep so we're responsible for the outside of the building and any of the big equipment that was in there when the building was built that's the way I remember SE uh uh Kevin explaining it so we have um paid snows maybe to do some landscaping or to do some snow plowing hasn't been a lot any discussion or questions NOP okay um we'll move on to the um oh election of officers we do need to do that forgot last time that this is a new fiscal year um so we need to elect um a chair a vice chair a secretary a representative to the Personnel Board and a representative to the capital Improvement planning committee um I'll move to nominate Julie as chair of the finance committee for the coming year okay I'm happy to keep doing it but I'm also happy if anybody else wants to no you do such a fine job nobody else wants to try all right all those in favor that passes 600 um how about Vice chair I'll move to nominate Mark as Vice chair of the finance committee for the coming year are you the vice chair now no I'm sorry who's the vice chair oh I'm sorry I mov to Nom I'll withdraw that motion I mve to nominate see I didn't even know who the vice chair was I move to nominate John as the vice chair for the coming year second the way you looked at me like oh are you you happy with that yeah anybody else okay that's the point um any discussion all those in favor all right that passes 600 um what else did I say secretary I'll move to nominate Jim am I guessing right as the secretary for the finance committee for the coming year Jim are you okay with doing that for another year you do such a great job okay any discussion all those in favor at 600 z um Capital Improvement planning committee that's Mark I'll move to I'll move to nominate Mark is the uh finance committee representative to the capital planning committee for the coming fiscal year any discussion you're happy with that right yep yep okay all those in favor good so then planning plan not planning Personnel Personnel personnel David that would be David please to nominate David Sharp As the finance committee's representative to the Personnel Board for the coming fiscal year second yeah and since he's not here we'll all all vote for that all right uh discuss all those in favor David is appropriately railroaded in on okay so that's election of officers out of the way so all we have left is financial policies so let's just go ahead and start at the beginning and start looking through um yeah put yeah next whenever Brenda has the data together we will meet on it and discuss it at that point um okay so handouts you should have a draft copy of the the financial policies and a bunch of supporting stuff which we will get to um one looks like this this is just data from the past however many years um that helps us like when we say 8% of something or other we'll look on this and this will tell us what our percentage has been recently this one is too small to read so I reprint at the very top of it bigger um but that is background data for Capital um stuff we have on our Capital assets list whatever that is um and then this one is an example policy from um Rutland for the way they use certified free cash and we can look at that as an option which is different from what we have written in our financial policies right now so with that let's go ahead and start through so the first page is just preface it's sort of motherhood and apple pie anybody have any questions or discussion on that and these are no that's no change there from last time we talked about it on the on first page on the very first page um just to note that we have been with regard to use of onetime revenues 1.1.1 um we have been using we've been funding the Roser fund from the yeah I was talking about like this page first page I'm already jumping I'm already jumping yeah all right this is entirely grammatical but you could use the active form of the verbs and say sustain Safeguard ensure conform preserve promote and ensure rather than sustaining promoting you offered yeah a while back to do a scrub of this and make it read nicely right and I figured that would best done after the yeah so all of that kind of stuff why don't we can we maybe just make a motion that Jim go through and fix it I'll make that motion purely editor and I'll yeah all right any discussion on that all those in favor all right beautiful that's 600 Jim's going to make it read properly thank you Jim yes okay anything else on the preface all right now we're to section one forecasting and budgeting um so 1.1.1 we wrote down here that we are not going to use um onetime funds for um operating expenses but we have we have been doing it for years and we'll probably continue to do it for some period of time um the goal would be not to but um so we could J why don't you go ahead Margaret you were gonna comment that's exactly what I was that's exactly what I was gonna say it was just it was just noting that yes we are using the reserve fund for recurring expenses so we good go ahead um are we I mean some of these categories are you know budget items anyway like putting stuff from the funds into OPB or Reserve fund or snow and ice or whatever does that you know if we totaled all those allocations up would it be how much we're dipping into the the free cash or would it be yes so when I say recurring recurring expenses I mean recurring operating expenses so we're voting OPB outside of the operating budget but but when we're you when we're um at the end of the fiscal year when we're going to the reserve fund for transfers at least this year we have been transfering into operating accounts so truly operating recurring expenses I did not bring my budget book with me but we La last year definitely um casy Casey is asking all of us just to speak oh I'm sorry more directly into the microphones okay should probably turn yours around so it's anyway it was just I was just noting that it's I don't think the list needs to be changed rep prioritized or anything but um think you made that made that so we do say in here that that highlighted piece that such use will trigger the Town Administrator to develop an action plan with the town accountant to avoid continue Reliance on onetime revenues um the I these are policies not law so if we violate them we just know that we are violating them but nothing right nothing happens legally right correct um so it can be aspirational and we can work towards it the other thing we could do is put something like this in place where instead of saying we don't use any say you know we will do something where we use you know up to 30% for operating or something like that about the tax rate just bump up the tax rate they'll take care of it oh we can't though without an override that's true correct and and I think you know I I'm looking at that statement I'm not sure the Town Administrator and the town accountant are going to come up with anything other than an override to to avoid the use of free cash for operating expenses I don't know with the word avoid I think it's I like it it gives us an out if we need to use it I mean there's strategic uses of some of these one-time revenues like snow and ice i' i' I'd rather dip into the one-time revenues in a bad year than increase the snow and ice dep or budget and then yeah not and that's actually a legal like use permit General law or something right do we want to say something like up to 30% of free cash can be used for no I I I think we should just leave it at at a void leave it as is do we want to say trigger the Town Administrator to develop a plan with the accountant and the select board or something I'm going to put select board in here or just leave it might be good because I mean ultimately they're going to override anything we suggest that they're not going to want to do or or don't feel we can do so power them to do what they'll do anyway oh I was going to bring this up and share it into the microphone I don't want to interrupt jul chain of thoughts y but this is when I read the sentence it's going to be on a year-to-year basis right if I understand every year we're going to say yeah okay we had to use onetime revenues this year because of whatever happened so okay let's come up with a plan so it doesn't happen again and then the next year something else may come along yeah okay yep I just want to make sure I understood it that way could be every year so I guess this just by putting this down here it puts everybody on notice that we should not be using free cash for onetime revenues okay um so what I you can see it up here so I think we're adding in and the select board right there can you guys see that yep or other did you do other non-recurring um I don't know how to phrase it I mean other could be anything if the finance committee is happy with other oh I see that last bulle could be anything yeah like that okay all right anything else on Section 1.1 Revenue guidelines all all right 1.2 and 1.3 are pretty straightforward 1.2 is just you send out the budget request select board decides whether we're going to do level service level funded whatever and then 1.3 is a financial forecast and this is something we do not do yet we would like to eventually do did um while back we had sort of had something going did they ever come back and give us anything I believe they were requesting more information okay and maybe it was for me and I have not had any time to do anything and completely forgot about it so okay um I I don't even know what it is that she wants and if it is me but so this is something I would like to get to but we don't do it yet and getting over the hurdle of starting it is um you know getting it set up is somewhat challenging this the state um whatever they are DLS offers assistance with this um but there's a I think there's a lot of back and forth where we have to provide them a lot of information order to get to the point we can do that right um so do you guys want to leave this in here do we want to just delete it for now and add it at what point you know at whenever we are ready to or um are we in dlss Q already for in the technical assistance Bureau to help with this or has there a request already been made oh yeah it we've sent her a lot of information in the fall last year um I believe I believe there was one more request for additional information that none of us have address so and I don't personally I don't see the harm in keeping this here because again it's aspirational and it is in the works um it might take time but it'll keep us from Forgetting which we will definitely do because once it's in there we won't revisit these for a long time all right so everybody's good with that just leaving that as is okay section two Capital planning um so I we added in uh let's section two so I added in this red piece since the last time we did it and what that adds what we have before is cipc was going to have a five-year plan and we added to that that cipc wants to work towards a 15-year Capital plan and the town building advisory committee would like to have a 20-year plan for building related expenses neither of those exist yet as far as I know I think cipc might be working on it this summer for the 15 your plan yeah so we have been maintaining a plan for um DPW like Public Works stuff but um the rest of the stuff we're we're going to be working on the summer that's correct okay so I like working that's no that's no small task no it's not um I have a just a a question comment uh given what we went through in July 2020 23 with the road issues and then learning that roads all over town need routine maintenance and upgrades and not just emergency response stuff I just personally feel that road infrastructure really needs to be addressed somewhere the the roads are actually on the fiveyear plan not all of them but like the major hotpots for the roads and culverts and stuff but um not every road is is on the plan but I would agree with you we we we should do something about it yeah um okay yeah I so it so goes beyond chapter 90 money that's that's been my I guess thinking is we use only chapter 90 money limiting ourselves you virtually get nothing done maybe two miles a roads um with all of the town's annual chapter 90 money and that doesn't address Cs and storm dur so how are we getting by now then are we using the operating budget for roads I I don't remember seeing it I think that's where the town is in a little bit of a Sticky Wicket because additional funding is needed um but beyond chapter 90 I don't think there is an awful lot of funding for the road regular road maintenance sure there's uh money that's in the highway budget for patching and patching material things like that but that's that's minor minor minor yeah we need to find a way to fund to supplement chapter 90 Mony in order to get work done well I know Kevin waited you know five six years to be able to pave is it lower and upper roads and River Road and River Road yeah and then we had all of that flooding and yeah so um basically spent down the chapter 90 money so we don't we don't have a lot left and is that that's not spent is the term inar um well we spend it and col ask for reimbursement oh we do okay but we know how much we're allowed to spend well yes they they have to approve any project that you put for okay y so should we add something here about I don't know I didn't know if if there would be any consideration to amending the the uh Capital Improvement bylaw to include road infrastructure well the funny thing about the Capital Improvements is like the the C Capital requests with our bylaw can't originate by or can't originate through the capital Improvement planning committee it's it's almost like a pass through committee that recommends all the requests that come in um so another committee would have to recommend that under the current bylaw for the capital committee to review it and then prioritize it so the highway department could essentially request certain projects to be included yes maybe we should change the bylaw uh possibly um I um not just for roads but for everything I would think the capital planning committee sees a need for something they should be able to bring it up I know the Commonwealth has recommendations for you know what cipc committee should be doing and and not doing I actually did uh make that a step to to see if um other municipalities are um operating under the same framework as as we are in terms of where requests originate so possibly yeah that might might be might be something to consider the responsibility of the Departments right to oversee the the work that's within their department and if um I'm not suggesting that Highway Department is not so don't take that from what I'm saying but if a department is not um performing as well as it should then it's the town administrator's role right to push them along and then also the select board in support of the Town Administrator right so go ahead so so one thing which I I've thought about before is it's with road projects in particular you they tend to be either nothing or fairly expensive yeah so would a stabilization fund so that we could budget a certain amount for maintenance and then that could roll over from to subsequent years for um the highway department would that be a useful thing and would that be possible we could do that in the capital stabilization fund already exists by expanding the uses of the capital stabilization it's pretty I think right right now as it is you could use it for that right it's a capital project why you couldn't it's a cap it's for capital projects we there was no um narrow definition of that but then we find that roads which could be very expensive would be comp competing with equipment and building upgrades and then exactly that's why I was thinking of putting it under you know highway so that it's been their little bucket money but not in competition with everyone else but the reality is it is in competition with everyone else unless unless there is a special stabilization fund dedicated strictly to road infrastr infrastructure well it's oh for the funding piece yes yes yeah um I thoughts on that but it's a different section of this policy well if it's related to what we're talking about go it is absolutely yeah go ahead actually since we're talking about it um and Brenda I know you're aware of this but there the town went through a um um the override process to try to fund part of those emergency repairs right um there is a mechanism under under statute that could allow the town to have a stabilization override specifically for say road infrastructure purposes and um there are all kinds of mechanisms associated with it year on year the select board has to be involved but it would be a way to fund road infrastructure routine road infrastructure matters on an annual basis and supplement chapter 90 monies so how would that work because would so it's under um I think it's chapter oh gosh 59 section let me see I wrote down 59 section 21 C paragraph G and so you would actually bring an override question to the town the purpose for the override would be to fund say a road infrastructure stabilization fund I'm just using this as an example um you could set a dollar amount whether it's a dollar amount that matches roughly what our chapter 90 money is so say you know we're getting 300 $400,000 in chapter 90 money set an override for $400,000 that would match chapter 90 money we could get road infrastructure projects done probably not immediately because it's still very expensive to do these but it would it would make things move a little more quickly in keeping our roads and sidewalks and bridges and culverts and drains and things up to par so it's just something to think about as far as as funding and in that respect it wouldn't be competing um with funding for other capital projects but that would then be an additional tax oh it it would be an override no doubt about it it would be um and that would have to be voted every year as an override it does not have to be voted every year the select board just has to uh the select board actually has to take action on um an amount I can't remember the exact terminology they use but it's the select board's responsibility to take action on an annual basis after the override has passed to continue the override moving forward into future fiscal years and just like a regular override it increases by two and a half percent year on year um a certain amount so it's just a a thought and given the Public's um you know input about the condition of the roads and sidewalks and things I thought maybe that's some way to keep things moving forward might be um more palatable palatable for them to vote that override versus an operating just a general operating budget yeah so you're saying there you would vote a town meeting for an override that could be less than a 2 and a half override the first time it's just for some amount of money it's x amount of money that the town determines you would have to put the amount of money and then it would have to go into an account that's only being used for road so the special if we'd have to establish the special stabilization fund first and then the override would be the measure to fund that special stabilization I don't and then you f year because also you just fund it every year after it would it would be recurring yeah would have recurring funding every year provided the select board takes action on it there's some sort of statutory action required by the select board um and there's also some consideration and I'm a little bit hazy on it now but there's also some consideration in there that um if you don't apply all the funds in the stabilization I'm sorry I'm not even gonna I'm not even going to elaborate on because I really need to I really need to read up on it okay but you gave us the number so we can I'll go off and read yeah I have the number it was chapter 59 59 section 21 C 21 c g and um DS puts out a information oh dls's information sheet on special purpose stabilization funds goes into some detail about that I think I purpose stabilization very cool so would we have to go to town meeting to time right well I mean before we even do that wouldn't we need to go to before the override wouldn't we need to go to town meeting to get a fund created first yep you could do them both the same meeting you could do the town meeting approval on the override before it goes to the ballot um back to this policy maybe we add a sentence that says something like each department should maintain a list or provide input or something yeah maintain regarding Capital planned Capital Improvements within their scope of something or other yeah I think we should say departments and committees a lot of committees kind of um fail to uh submit stuff until the last minute as well area of what influence is that the right word there is a responsibility that's much better yeah how about timely input matter well to I I mean I don't know how many I don't know how many departments are on time but it's not many of them uh Casey I don't know if you can speak to what percentage of them are are actually on time but I I know that you have to kind of go around and get people to uh well first of all I know you send the notices for what is it December one yes and then after most don't get them to you I think you have to go around and continue continue to try and get those requests in so yes and sometimes we don't get them until late I sent that's why I sent just so everybody knows I received notification that we could be looking at another APR um it usually takes them eight months to decide whether they're going to do it and we don't usually find out about it until January so I sent an email off to Kathy Sylvester chair of uh Community preservation and Mark at the time chair of um capital and let them know that we might see this yeah because what we could do is start the applications and then put the funding amounts in later because we almost never see that in time it usually comes in in January yeah and what I like about that is you know if we know it's coming we can put it on the capital plan and then should it not go through we can simply take it off as opposed to having it come in late and being like whoa where are we going to find this what is it or 10% I think yes I think it's I can't remember yeah what but it's because we're a right to farm community we're required to fund a portion of it right 10 so I guess what my point is is I I I think a lot of them don't come in on time even when they're just regular Department Capital requests so I think it would be good to have a policy to maybe remind folks of that I think Capital could also promulgate something that takes this into account Mark just as an aside um I've been thinking about putting together sort of a binder of the information that Capital needs to have prior to really sitting down and going through requests cool you and I would need to talk about that so I added a sentence here you guys good with this yep do I didn't you guys are happy with that okay moving on um under definition I I am generally in opposition go ahead no go ahead I'm generally not in favor of repeating stuff in the bylaws in a policy because then when the bylaw change you got to change the policy to match but reading the policy I felt like it was really helpful to have the definition of capital in here even though it repeats the bylaw go ahead uh yeah well I wonder if um building might be better right now there's nothing in there about roads you know whereas I think structure rather than I mean I don't know what the specific by were you just copying the wording of the yeah this is word for word out of the bylaw okay so where roads fit into this then yeah purchase any fixed asset provid to cross, it's unclear though it's a road a fixed asset yes it's not a a building or a facility given what we've been given what we've been through with roads though it's almost as if the time has come to specifically address R yeah can't Hur the put road infrastructure sorry road infrastructure because it's not just but that is a capital asset Margaret it's a permanent ownership remember it's public it's land for a public purpose you're providing access so I don't even know that roads needs to be in there I think we need to remind people that roads are a part of that to be honest I was is making sure that they actually were covered in this that this I would say so because the town owns them does permit it according to the Commonwealth's guide for implementing a capital Improvement program it it actually calls out um it being desirable to include utilities roads and sewers as well does Tom scan have included in the fixed assets schedule does he have what roads are they on there in the fixed assets oh yes so our fixed assets yeah our fixed assets are anything that the town owns that we have to maintain and you know the points the parts of roads that are not accepted those are places where there things might get a little sticky but we don't usually do maintenance on a lot of those sections really it's it's the capital assets that can include buildings it can also include roads and other ownership utilities we only provide one utility so far as I can recall and that's sewer but that also includes the collection system right Brenda yes that's correct yeah so that's an ass at the Town out yeah any any chapter 90 money that is spent the Auditors put that into the fixed asset schedule yeah I like Julie's note that's good yeah so this doesn't change the bylaw description it just adds a don't forget roads and sewers how about is there any other infrastructure in addition to roads and sewers maybe we say and other related I think we're covered there so everything else is a building grounds related I mean like oh sidewalks Bridges May road infrastructure maybe road infrastructure structure that would Road and Sewer infrastructure yes Road and Sewer infrastructure yes yes that's probably better because it does include those outlying pieces people don't think about like the collection system in other words the piping or the sidewalks to Margaret and John's points it's so be part of it since it's its own we we still had I'm get to mix up with water just forgot it oh yeah okay yeah that looks good I like I like that so we're happy with 2.1 all right 2.2 um this just says that our external Auditors make a list um which they do and that list is available to whoever it um we talked back and forth we put in this policy criteria it says cipc will set criteria set criteria for prioritizing projects we didn't want to set that criteria we want them to set that criteria but then we had this list of stuff that you could use if you wanted to which is still in here are we happy with that being available to them yes we're getting nods okay um all right 2.4 Capital financing that's where this thing that's hard to read comes in um and this is I need help with this because I just made this up so so we have to so we said each year the town will dedicate to Capital expenditures some amount right we have to come up with some amount and we used to have it as a percentage of our operating budget and that was I wasn't happy with that because it seems like it needs to be related to what our Capital assets are not what our operating budget is so instead um I I went around and talked to a bunch of people and looked at up a bunch of stuff there seems to be a general guideline that you should spend one to two% of the value of your buildings in maintenance of those buildings this is not including long-term capital like replacing the roof and that kind of stuff the is just keeping up with it doing maintenance um and then for equipment and Machinery it's 5% that 5% should also cover like if you hire a mechanic it covers that mechanic's salary can fall into that but up to 5% so I I took the list the fixed asset list that that um the Auditors do and I added up I I put it into three sections buildings Machinery equipment vehicles and I I put the last one down is land because there's like some ball fields and cemeteries and stuff that didn't really fall into any other category what is on that fixed asset list is money that we have actually spent on these assets so if we look at that first section and that's what's blown up on this other sheet for building there's a list of the buildings there um the column that says in asset spreadsheet that is what is in the spreadsheet so for example the 1888 building is worth $ 38383 right that's probably not right um the farthest right column is the assessed value so if I looked up the property card in the property records that was the assessed value there was no the um the 1888 building is on the same piece of property is the town hall and police department and there's only one price in there so there's no dollar value for 1888 in there the others all have at least an assess value um and then I put in a column of an estimated value which I just flat out made up I don't know so feedback on any of that is welcome but the dollar value that I took 1% of is that estimated value column just so so the side the passet spreadsheet is the original cost right right y exactly that's why it's so low yeah is there a way we could find out other than commissioning a study or something is there a any convenient way to find out what the current value of something is um would my would Insurance um the schedule of equipment and vehicles um with our with Mya would that would that give replacement value yeah I was gonna say it might it might be better to go off the replacement value yeah because that's what we're ultimately saving up for is replacing it yeah um does anybody know what what does Maya do there uh it depends on how you set it up but I would assume that the town of Deerfield set most of those up on replacement value right Casey many of them we did um we're some of the older stuff wasn't because they'll reclassify it after a certain period of time but we do replacement value now is that do you have those values is that something I can look at I can find them yeah we have them I think we collected them back in May okay is that yeah go ahead the intent of uh the funding for 5% to replace the equipment or they have money for maintenance or both both because if it's to replace equipment you're saying the average the average life of equipment is 20 years 20 years yeah but I don't can't see the trucks and back hes and all that having aage life point of years yeah some of them actually do make it that far um when I first saw this I saw this is kind of like being a guideline because there's similar guidelines for like regular home ownership like where you know you're supposed to put in 1 to 3% of the value of your home on that too but when it comes to our town we actually do have a pretty good replacement schedule um we don't follow it but we have one uh so some of those actually are you know things where like the the trucks may only be like a fiveyear life cycle whereas like a wood shipper could be a 20 so yeah but overall it's not t so so the% not well I can I can go and take a look I don't I don't have the schedule um with me now but um I'm not asking I'm just trying to point out I I think it's I don't think we have enough in there yeah it's probably going to be more but it seems like a good low Watermark at least and I'm open to like do we want a higher number um possibly there there are some years where we can go Way Beyond 146,000 with machinery and the way it's way the plan structured now we've got like all these Peaks and valleys with proposed amounts coming out of stabilization I'd have to see what what that is but we're probably averaging more than 146,000 if we stick to the schedule yeah well it does UR to me that this that the upper end of this of the costs is kind of not would all be done as separate you know town meeting approval things rather than Capital fund specifically so maybe the 5% is more reasonable than we think if you're looking at a baseline things like a new roof or a renovation of a building or whatever which you know would theoretically be part of the maintenance expense but you know aren't part of the maintenance expense buildings is separately stated buildings are carved out so the question then is which valuation you do you use the assets the auditor fixed asset list listing do you use um the the replacement values on Maya's schedule of equipment and vehicles um I guess it just needs to be determined 5% well that would be the best yeah um because that'll be that'll be the most accurate I think is I mean they taking they're basing it on replacement cost and stuff I believe so it's it's actually from a list that we get from Kevin and I don't know how often the prices are updated but at least the schedule of equipment because they do um since they're three departments in one they do a really good job of like rotating equipment R and stuff so there are certain things that we may have a five-year life cycle but it's really not because once the truck is done or once a front loader is done for one of the Departments it get cycled into the next I remember was telling us about that that they go from Highway to end the transfer station last yeah so how they determine values in the department I think they're going off of what it would cost to purchase a new one okay but the thing is I don't think that those amounts are adjusted for inflation like I don't think that like a an asset that they're looking to buy 20 years from now has a has an adjusted price for inflation I think I think they're using maybe 2018 values not even 2024 yeah you know so I mean yeah some of these because they made the list several years ago yeah they made the list before the war and you know that's what we're going off of yeah yeah so we're saying one to 2% of the replacement value of all municipal buildings plus 5% of the replacement value of all equipment and Machinery so the way I read what it says right now is the list of what stuff there is is on that auditor list which we know where it is and can find but the value is not necessarily the value that's on that list it's the replacement value for that equipment I think Maya's schedules or as Mark was saying right from the schedules from the Department um might be more helpful as far as getting those those accurate Replacements okay so what do we want this to say on the so so what if we have a cipc that um doesn't have Mark on it and is not as organized as they are um we'd still have an insurance carrier that provides um um the schedules um of equipment and vehicles buildings land as well I mean there should be hope hopefully everything's on yeah so I actually yeah I actually found to stop sharing um sure I actually found the uh the schedule I have a million tabs open thanks now I have a million in one yeah so it looks like um they do have um oh estimate 15 to 25% per year due to P yeah so here um they've got an estimate for how much each one of these things will cost to replace and um this will probably have to be um updated but through 2039 it's a little larger we can see that it swings anywhere from like 40,000 to 325,000 and we're we're actually currently off schedule so this will no no we're not so what we're trying to come up with is a a minimum amount each year that we should put into capital and it could be like if it's on the year that you only have a $40,000 thingy then the rest of it up to that limit should be stuck in capital stabilization station yeah um this just right well so we also need I say that 40,000 else somebody else needs something yeah yeah so good [Music] how did you get the 5% D um I Googled around and that seemed to be other towns are using F gole no it was General it's not to municipalities it was General like if I have a company and I have stuff and I want to know how much it's it it was like for companies it is helpful though to have this number because it's just before it's felt like yeah yeah okay so how about we put 2% of total replacement value of all buildings plus 5% of the replacement value of all equipment and Machinery because the buildings outweigh the Machinery so much that that'll be yeah a nice amount should we put like before the 1 to two% oh okay yeah and then also uh should we put in anything for roads well we already yeah we should that just blows it all up that's a lot of money yeah well that depends on whether you consider doing the stabilization that's true versus because those would be two different tactics that's true yeah but that's the reality oh yeah I'm not saying there's not needing it's just which decision is the right one to do um maybe just a note on here that this um I don't want to um it yeah Wonder we should just leave it out and revisit roads after we do more looking into the chapter 59 stuff just put a plus in them out for roads um would this be something that would go to the select board to discuss like yes tactic it would have to be because they're they're the only ones that can can present an override so they may not know um just for everyone's reference too another thing I gave you the chapter in section but um Department of uh I'm sorry dls's uh igr number 2017-20 also addresses that I'm sorry I was um igr from DLS 2017-20 I recognize that we our request that you send this to everybody by hand oh sure yeah no problem I will not I'll send you the um the information sheet the igr in the chapter and section you may as well see a SL yeah really how about if we just put in a blank statement plus an am out the road oh it's a good idea zero is an amount zero is an amount roads and sewers Road that's what we used above this is glitched out it'll show up in a minute it actually the rest of the word is there oh I don't know why it's not yeah it looks like Zoom has locked up doesn't seem to know all right anyways okay so we're happy with that's how much we want to save the next sentence says we're not happy with the 5% what do you want it to be 10 increase eight I think we need to do a study oh uh only probably pass the well I mean I see what you're saying and I kind of agree with it except that that's going to make for a huge capital budget but it is what it is the other thing too is uh there is a trend across the 351 municipalities in the Commonwealth to contract more and more of the stuff that Highway departments do so number may we we may need to buy a less equipment as time goes on yeah an option [Music] yeah I'm happy with the five I don't know the better answer sorry John I'm I'm with you I I'm with you I understand I understand your concern and I and I I agree but I think if we look at 5% of the um Insurance values as Oppo as opposed to the depreciated asset values then that would be more money to replace versus what it's worth as is yes I mean in 2024 ideally we'd want to be putting away somewhere either putting away or putting into the Machinery somewhere around 200,000 right now the 5% is at 46 right so that's and that's that's a minimum yeah it's at least so if we did more we could okay I have lost my internet connection estimated value replacement value no did right now since total Val yeah I changed it to replacement value in the write up but I I can't connect to the internet right now so I guess we can always change the policy later too right yeah yeah okay so the next topic is the next sentence so what does if we say we funded Capital expenditures what does that mean so that's actual Capital expenditures that we vote um in budget plus principal payments on debt plus whatever we put in capital stabilization so if we spend money out of capital stabilization does that count that counts right as funding for Capital yeah yes you're just putting the money aside ahead of time in order to fund capital from Capital stabilization so the way it's worded right now is okay you guys are good with that yes okay talking about the funding sources sentence no the one the sentence that's sort of highlight before the funding s yeah the dedicated value includes funding for Capital expenditures expended in the Target year plus principal payments on debt used for Capital expenditures plus funds placed into the capital St stabilization fund right Julie that's what you're talking about yep it's exactly what I'm talking about so okay so the the amount is determined by replacement value and as defined in the previous sentence but then the the dedicated value this amount that you're spending would come so we're saying so I'm gonna say I'm gonna put aside at least $1.5 million next year for Capital how do I know I've done that so if I look at what we what the budget says if I add our debt payments plus our capital expenditure warrant line items if that is not more than 1.5 million then I need to put some money into Capital stabilization in order to get up to 1.5 million I think that's what I'm saying it's like what out of the what out of the budget counts as capital got it okay that's and that's really important because it it helps to try to assure continued funding to Capital stabilization which has been slipping so that's a I think that's a very good point I'm trying to get internet again and with the debt that we've been racking up it won't take much for us to get to that point unfortunately yeah sorry so now he do a capital stabilization override too thought about that okay um so then we've got the rest of that Capital financing which is just like follow the rules um whatever then the down at the bottom there it says capital projects associated with Enterprise funds or multi toown entities shall be financed as follows we say schems is from the schems rent stabilization fund for that schems building the Gem's Capital purchases not associated with the building come from the Enterprise fund and then South County Senior Center shall be financed from assessments to each town so it says we're going to split South County Senior Center you guys happy with the way that read yep what about SE SE is not covered in yeah that that's already set Enterprise fund right but um and the paragraphs headed by Enterprise F HEC has your hand up Casey Julie I have a question though if um in terms of South County Senior Center I wonder if maybe some recognition of the IMA structure is should be considered in that reference because if the IMA changes for instance if we have a building that one of the towns owns we could end up being in the same situation as we are with South County EMS where we're paying rent or something right um that isn't the case right this second but the IMA could change in relation to that so I just wonder if maybe there should be a reference to the IMA or according to the Ima okay yes would that apply to scams too with the IMA for scems yes it does for both of them okay yes Casey can you let me share my screen yeah hold on one sec I knew you were head back in I don't know if I kicked you off or something but I didn't mean I'm Sor I lost myet it's my bad should we say anything about Frontier or TR toown in here as well well I was thinking about that but TR toown is the beach itself is owned by weightly I don't I don't know uh we do we are the Fiscal Agent for the operations so I know that they're trying to get like a dock for instance and they've made a capital request for that uh or there will be one for next year I I think I don't I don't know okay actually now that I say that out loud I don't know if the request was for just us or if that was us and Whitley interesting Casey do you remember if the dock was paid was supposed to be paid for by by Deerfield or was that Deerfield and Whitley kicking in I think it was supposed to be both towns yeah which makes sense and sometimes you know at least recently weight Ley has kicked in 50% for some things I don't know if they would be willing to do that with that but what's IMA stand for intermunicipal um intermunicipal agreement correct I had to ask to int um I apologize but I have to leave thank you thank you if you have other thoughts that on the rest of this just yeah perfect thank you great thanks Margaret happy summer thanks Margaret thank you you too it should be inter right inter yeah and John as far as the sewer goes um the town has already agreed 25% from taxpayers and 75% for all capital items for right so I don't know that there's a reason to state that in here I think that's a that's a we actually changed that bylaw it doesn't exist anymore that we can go as low as zero% for the town is that right that at the last was the last or the last one before that and eventually we argued ourselves back where it started sound meaning oh did we good okay in fact I did I I don't think it went through though did it no that's what I mean we argued ourselves back to status quo I don't know maybe Casey remembers okay we did actually it the language of the legislative change identified what what had been determined as the split of 25 575 um but they reeled it back and didn't make a significant change when they it was finally approved by town meeting and submitted to the legislature for approval well the argument was made that the town as a whole does derive some benefit from Sur even when the yes absolutely beond just the people who are have hups so but we had the paragraph for the bullet points with capital projects associated with Enterprise funds and then we don't say anything below about that Enterprise fund being ass where did that go oh with Enterprise funds should said the Capal plant skms is an Enterprise fund John it isn't just cap it isn't just sewer that's an Enterprise fund it's South County EMS as well right but he said so you do actually St some you do recognize that Enterprise fund he's suggesting we recognize the wastewater treatment plant it isn't currently in that little bullet point list it's either that or we should say capital projects except for the sewer plan I think I think my intent in this section was just to deal with multi- toown stuff and sewer isn't Enterprise or MTI yeah maybe just say multi out Enterprise funds multi- toown operations yeah yeah that'll work that more sense than okay the the the top does the SE go to the capital planning committee Mark the sewers uh their Capital request too yeah and that would just fall under do we need to do we need to make part of this annual funding do we need to make it part of their 25% or is it already included in the language we've used say that again what was your question 25% of the sewers capital is going to be paid for by the town the town have we addressed that in earlier paragraphs on the Capital Finance so in other words it's a part of the 5% yeah so you're talking about that the sewers going to put requests for Capital right but that's that funded but it's supposed to be funded by the 25% 25% of it is paid for by the town of deer and not sewer uses so some so we need fund somehow some fraction of the sewer how the heck do you evaluate value of a sewer I don't know well we're just paying it right now yeah well yes some of them last 100 years with no maintenance some of them don't remember reading something that in Boston they still found they still have some wood yeah there still wooden pipes sell over a commonwealth crazy okay I'm going to double check the bylaws because my memory is not that we went back to 25% but you guys are probably right because everybody disagrees with me no disagree with you I'm checking right now I I I remember making that motion and it didn't pass I'm pretty sure we're at we are not required to pay anything yeah to required to pay what the town voted to do right right I think the most recent town meeting vote was leish I I thought that was it the opposite but the question really is in here in this document would be what's funding the Capital Improvements for the sewer I think that's what John was asking yeah because it's not like you have that we're taking 1% of buildings and 5% of this so what are we doing to fund the the part that's for the sewer because it's just not listed anywhere so right now we have we added plus an amount for Road and Sewer infrastructure and we're leaving it nebulous and undef fine yeah which is fine because we don't know what the answer is right okay well we in our insurance would have replacement value for those items as well right should those would be big numbers yes we've addressed the issue in the document yeah so I'm gonna I'm gonna delete this funding we're okay want take Enterprise funds or there you go [Music] great we're happy now yep okay and then do we want to add anything for Frontier or Frontier is so Frontier really does their own thing right and they just tell us how much and we pay well um and we don't have a lot of influence over forcing them to do Capital Improvements or whatever and they're pretty disciplined since I've been working with them right I don't know try town I I feel like it's not enough money to worry about but okay I mean honestly what are they gonna buy new sand I don't know yeah I don't know Sand's getting expensive yeah I don't know he's getting rid of all the that vegetation the capital expense or not all right and then it says nobody shall do anything at town meeting unless CIP who knows all right so we're happy with section two except for the 5% except for the 5% okay section three debt management do we want to vote section by section since you have an argument with section two I didn't she said do you want to vote section by section rather than approving the whole document you asking us right maybe we should do section by section all right that's my thought we have a motion for Section okay make make a motion to vote section by section no make a motion to vote section two what about section what about section one oh you can go back to section all right all right I move that we uh accept the modified draft of the preface material and section one than any discussion oh there's in favor I right that passes 5 so now we're ready for section two who seconded that I did we have a motion to approve section two I'll make a motion to approve section two second any discussion all those in favor opposed all right that passes 410 and the argument against it is at 5% okay section three debt management the most of this is sort of like section 3.1 and the introduction stuff is kind of a boiler plate saying we will pay our debts and we will be reasonable when we do it by trying and using the least expensive way of financing debt stuff like that so um any may have questions on Section the introduction or section 3.1 no section 3.2 is the debt limits um so I just wrote down total debt service including excluded debt non-excluded debt and Enterprise fund debt so this is sewer debt everything shall be limited to 8% of general fund operating budget net of debt with a Target balance of 3 to 5% so if we look at [Music] uh so if you look at this this spread sheet down we have what is the budget what are our capital investment so um Debt Service here's our debt service so this is Debt Service is interest and principle added together and then um percent of our budget all the budget stuff excluding the debt so we're at 4ish percent three and a half 3.9 we are at 6% in 2023 so that's about what we've been doing [Music] okay what's the target balance our Target is 3 to 5% no what's it mean what is Target balance you mean the target amount every year yes yes so lower tet Debt Service or Target Debt Service yep Target figure or well but yeah balance really isn't oh you know what I only shared here I'm sorry I'm pointing at this thing and you all aren't seeing it um stop sharing just show the screen all right I think we all found this is what I was looking at right in here oh yeah um wow it's way behind Still rocking but the question was about the word balance I think right you were asking whether to use a different word other than balance Target Deb Target figure value oh value value Target Target Debt Service because Debt Service would in include your interest as well as your uh principal payment right total debt service I you don't like that total debt service shall be limited to 8% net of debt with a Target value of three to 5 per. oh okay so you're right balance was the wrong word I like value better whoever said that I like amount value value wordss okay yeah that's fine amount amount yeah yeah anglosaxon okay the next line says in accordance with State Statute the town's debt limit shall be 5% of its most recent equalized valuation that's not quite true no because our our wastewater treatment plant is completely outside of that so yeah it's excluded it doesn't fall under that statute right um but if we include well say the non-excluded debt limit perhaps no no it it's like different categories so even if it's excluded um even if it's excluded debt it still Falls within that debt limit but there's different categories of debt um and I can't remember the exact terminology but it's some sewer falls into a category and it seems to be stuff that you charge fees for um although I'm not sure that's the r now is doesn't fall within that 5% so the library debt is within that 5% the sewer debt is not within that 5% oh because yeah because it's got a different Revenue stream right I mean the sewer debt but if you look even if you look at I think our sewer that these two numbers I do not have and are not right uh right here um so I just kind of made so 19 million was a about what the sewer oh it's like 23 is it it's 20 22 million 22 million yep uh and maybe at in 2023 it was less than that but it's now 22 million okay and then we have to add the library to that right because that's been improved so that makes it's 32 345 right because library is pretty 125 pretty close well 123 um andoss possibly another 400 and some thousand that we're getting a grant for so but we we approved 125 right mov 123 123 all right so even if you add those together we're still at 4% right so maybe we should say maybe we still want to keep it at 5 % not necessarily with State Statute but the town's what's equalized value is that the asset value of all the property in town yes and I don't remember what that's at right now 420 million something like that right is that what it is now um it's when it says it 69 what's that when it says it shall be 5% does that mean like it's good to have 5% debt I mean it doesn't say more a limit it's a li but it doesn't read that way it's like well no it's say the limit is 5% it's not that the debt is oh I see okay the debts limit okay it Hur what's the state say it should be what's that so the state says 5% for some stuff and no limit for other stuff right so we're just gonna say everything's five yeah keep ourselves to that sound that limit how about maybe something less less absolute then shall maybe should should yeah should is is better correct yeah I was just thinking of that we can't actually tell them the town or the town should strive strive to keep the debt limit be limited to less than was that good English probably not Jim's going to fix the English anyway but you like this are you okay with the oh yeah eventually it'll say something there you go should be how about just less then how about no more then no more than it's no more than okay I made it no more than eventually oh yeah the cloud has to catch up all right there sever like time sorry all right um and then this section down here protection of bond raing is all um I feel like kind of motherhood and appi there we go oh here let me show you no more than up here oh goodness all right it's not going to show you or yeah we just we believe you okay um and then the last one 3.4 at least you have hard copies says the town Treasurer will will report to us the depth status annually which I kind of okay anything else you guys happy with section four three three would you like to vote on it make a motion to approve section three debt management second any discussion yeah I just realized that since we're gonna have Jim take a pass at some of the grammar maybe we should hold off on voting on these I mean it would be only grammar not only grammar okay I'm not gonna change what anything says I'll just change how it says I'd like to go ahead and just vote it and and be done um I can we will send out a copy to everybody once Jim yeah CH it and then if anybody has any issues we'll have a chance to revisit but that way go ahead when you send it out to us can you indicate what you've changed oh absolutely yeah somehow yeah there's word word has tracking Chang okay because but then keep it separate from the changes that Julie's pointing out well I we'll accept all the Chang that we've done tonight okay we see that stuff all right and then he'll start with a clean copy and move on so maybe we can vote it again or something I'm just saying it's procedurally difficult to approve stuff that could change yeah yeah but I think we could vote these changes and then we can do one vote for the whole next okay and that way that this way we record like if anybody has a an argument with the subst so it right one section okay I like that plan cool we have to vote so we have a motion any other discussion all those in favor all right that passes 500 Z section four Financial reserves so 4.1 well there's some introduction stuff which just says that we have reserves 4.1 is free cash this is not what we use free cash for which we've already covered this is when we have free cash how much should we have um so first we say what is free cash second we say we're going to set a year-to-year goal for free cash certification and we picked five to eight% and this we took from other like other towns this is they vary a lot actually but this is within the range of what other towns do um of the previous year's annual general fund budget so if you look on this sheet down here at the bottom certified free cash you can see where we've been every year that we've certified so we've been we used to like way back we used to be really high 1311 and earlier it was even higher um but the last few years has been 867 87% so that's kind of where we are there's no way to really tell when we're setting you know this this is totally in AAR so next year sometimes certified free cash will come up we'll look at that value and look at what you know we'll look at the value and what the budget was last year and see if it was 8% so we'll see if we're going out of whack but it'll be inors it'll be after the fact so we can't do anything about it yeah other than so but it gives us an indication though because we saw and we actually did this because we went several years where it was up around 20% and we made a conscious effort to spend more of the free cash and not have it piling up so much so all right so you guys happy with the 5 to eight% um and then we say we will avoid depleting the towns free cash in any year um but it doesn't say like how much buy and then the last thing it says is finance this this we just added the finance committee shall determine a minimum amount of free cash remain unexpended as of the annual town meeting so that's like what we did this year where we said select board we want at least I don't remember what the dollar value was 200,000 left in free cash and they went back so that's how we did it last year and that seemed to work well and that way it leaves us it leaves it open to change from year to year so if we have a year that's really we can decide to spend more and if not not or whatever okay so any questions or discussion on 4.1 no okay 4.2 is stabilization funds um we have a general stabilization fund a capital stabilization fund and a schem rent stabilization fund um so the general stabilization fund um these numbers I just kind of picked based on where we are right now so if we have a minimum balance of 5% of the current general fund operating budget in the general stabilization fund um you can see the balance on here is kind of the third Chunk Up From The Bottom so we were actually well above that we were like 8 to 10% and then we spent that $600,000 and now we're at 5% % um so this this actually if we go forward with this 5% plan that that makes an argument for not replenishing General stabilization any thoughts on this I I honestly don't know what to do about how much you put in it yeah I mean if 5% is a minimum yeah it does feel like there's we had commented that it it was feeling like it was getting smaller so like we're right at the yeah like we would be wanting to put more money into it isn't there a Target of aiming for having a million bucks in the general stabilization fund wasn't that sort of the rule of thought yeah I thought so too what it and of course obviously as inflation takes it to we might want to open that up so maybe we need more than five maybe we're more comfortable with maybe like seven seven actually why is it a percentage of the operating budget at all I mean the two are kind of unrelated idea behind it is if you have some Calamity and you don't take in money for some reason you still have to pay your operating expenses and you use the you can use the stabilization fund to cover that yeah so turned out to be fine but if something like Co happened and there wasn't Federal funding there to support you and all of a sudden nobody's going out to eat and people are defaulting on their um taxes and yeah or the automobile industry crashes and you no longer have excise tax I know I don't know yeah it's hard to know but what I struggle with is like no amounts enough right 5% I mean if you have a true calamity 5% isn't going to do Squat and we saw that because we had This calamity and the roads were dead and we didn't have enough in the stabilization fund although it turned out we we were able to use it yeah so I don't know so what we if we put so a million dollars would be 5.5% and really it should probably be well we're all agreement that it should be more [Music] really but of course we're running into the same issue here that we have with other things where what we would like and what is feasible are two different things right I we would all like a 100% Reserve fund not really so 7.7% would be 1.3 million that's like really much more in line with the history except for this one year right so good I don't know maybe apparently before I was HED they used a million out of the stabilization fund to help support the purchase or the building of the garage oh yeah I think that so we'd actually at one point in time had had two million had two million in there that was before we had a capital stabilization fund too true yes it was yep so y yeah that stabilization fund hasn't been around for very long maybe six seven years right uh the capital stabilization yes cap so General stabilization yeah back in 2011 and 2012 it was 2 million which was 18% of our which seems kind of high I don't know but it could have been that they were building it up for that specific purpose yeah the seven % seems like kind of a okay goal pretty cool okay so it now says 7% so funds then we have this line down here funds in excess of we have changed this now some percent may be used for down payment on large capital expenditures um do we even need to say that if we if we strive to maintain 7% if we have more than 7% then we can use it to do and there's no real restriction right on what you can use it for you just have to vote yeah yeah so maybe we just take this line out yeah yeah yeah g okay and then we say we can go below this minimum level of 7% if something bad happens because that's what the moneyy is for if that happens then we will um replenish it within the next two fiscal years um and in no event shall you go below two and a half perc Al I guess if you were truly an extremist then we would just ignore the policy and do what we had to do and then you can change the 5% to 7 thank you good all right Capital stabilization fund um so we will appropriate annually to this fund so that overtime the target balances are achieved to cover cash outlays for Capital needs so the question is how much what's our Target value so one one idea that was out there that some other towns had was the the the total annual asset depreciation under gasby so that's um you said when I asked you a couple years ago was about 1.5 million sounds about right yeah I I can't tell you for sure but that sounds far and what do we have right now 100,000 like 100,000 something Mak sure I was reading the right line since the number you were saying is so far different yeah just just barely over a 100,000 y yeah exactly y we we've been spending it down so we were building it up and then we anymore and started spending it instead of wa which I mean we have needs um at Le gives us a Target I and if we're this is this is one of the ways we'd fund the 500,000 you're saying that we should be spending on Capital the 500,000 right so so if we only so if our maybe that's the value we use instead maybe the target value is the whatever our capital expenditure minimum is use that same dollar value because you have other ways to fund some of the capital projects right like that's the in theory yeah why are you using asset appreciation as the key I don't know other town did that's based on the cost of the assets not the current value right that's why the other number seems like a better yeah and it's like consistent with wording that you've used already all right so be um Target balance should minimally equate to the total annual capital or describe describe ins section yeah you guys happy with that okay and then the fiveyear capital Improvement plan will help us decide when to spend money out of here okay schem rent stabilization this is governed by the by what oh that was just by our our vote right can we go back to the other one yeah yeah we don't talk about its use because we do that do we yeah it say um said here balance but when do we use it well so one we say that we will only use it for Capital expenditures and then down here we say finance committee will decide when to use it based on the fiveyear capital Improvement plan and the earlier in the document we talked about Capital funding like one if you look up right under the definition of the capital stabilization fund it says it she'll only be used for Capital expenditures as defined in the bylaws right I know I know what's to be used for but when it use we decide so this last this last sentence here says finance committee decides when to use it based on the fiveyear okay we don't want the policy to go beyond that it's the policy is who who decides not how much I'm just throwing that out for discussion well I mean if we want yeah I see what he means if you want to maintain a standard a given balance then when do you ever spend it we actually ran across ran into that at one of the Town meetings I can't remember if it was last year or the year before where like well we've got this money what are we saving it up for you know and that's one of the reasons that the value took a dip because right there was the idea that well okay this is a capital expenditure this is what we've been stabilizing for so yes when should it be should be the select board and the finance committee that decide that or at least may make recommendations yeah well cipc could make a recommendation but ultimately it's up to the select Bo ultimately it's the town that the just leave it be for now the way actually yeah it's a pretty if you're G to put it in there it's a pretty important item see what you mean because honestly the balance in it should fluctuate yeah right it should be it shouldn't be the balance that we're targeting we should put the target should be we should put a certain amount in it every year we should put 300,000 in every year and some years we spend $5 and some years we spend a million dollars right yeah okay so right it the amount that goes into it will then be some fraction of what we've currently set as the the value I guess yeah like a percent of that five $600,000 whatever that changes to we should be saving each year yeah and then I I think we should be saving whatever this adds up to less the capital purchases or the capital expenditures right which is what our our other section says yeah so maybe we're okay and maybe we don't have a Target balance maybe we just so instead of saying so the fund overtime Target balance you so that it's um like adequately funded in order to be able to to to spend what we need to each year or or maybe just a a fixed fraction of the budget as a whole the operating budget like I don't know 1% 1% so I I feel like Capital we're back to I feel like Capital needs to be separate from operating right Capital needs to be some percentage of our assets not some percentage of our well but okay operating so we should be putting in 1% of the building replacement value or depreciation I'm not sure if we settled on depreciation depreciated or replacement replacement value okay so we on replacement value so then it would be 1% of building replacement Value Plus 5% of Machinery or equipment replacement Value Plus 1% of lands minus or less the uh cost of the capital expenditures that year is what put so the differ goes into your Capital stabilization fund right yeah and that's what we wrote in that section yeah we put in that 1% on the 5% yeah then we spend whatever the capital planning people want or right yeah okay right that makes sense so you can just get rid of this yellow line is that you're saying we don't need the balance to be that's what Le appropriating okay so now it's just sort of motherhood not with no dollar value associated with this right all right scems rent stabilization this is the 75% and it says what we'll use the the rent stabilization for yeah and this is this is specifically for Capital items not maintenance so the maintenance comes out of our operating budget I I I noticed the word maintenance oh I see use solely for the maintenance of the grounds the original equipment in the exterior the building and to fund Capital Improvement so that's this fund is really just for capital capital expenditures related to the grounds the the building and the original equipment really yes because because we take in because the 25% goes to 25% goes into our general fund operating budget for maintenance yeah yeah so what goes into the stabilization fund and and I I believe you'll want to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that this was an agreement uh between the town administrators or maybe between the three towns that this money was going in there specifically for Capital expenditures regarding those those three things okay so like Mowing and plowing for the grounds would not come out of no no that's just general maintenance so it would be more like planting trees or whatever right or like we used it once for repaving the parking lot to make it bigger so they wouldn't have to turn around uh in such a tight fashion you know that kind of thing you need to say that did it show up not yet not yet yeah there you go general maintenance of the building and original okay guys happy with that do we need that less sence I think it makes it clear people are reading it okay um retained earnings are for the Enterprise funds um so we're just saying that we can have retained earnings and then scem retained earnings value is targeted to the ambulance replacement schedule and wastewater treatment plant retained earnings cover should at a minimum cover one year of operating experience expenses and may be increased for Capital do we want to say anything about operating expenses in the schems you could but I'm not sure what the agreement is between the towns I know you know we've generally been using the retained earnings to support the budget except for an amount that should have been kept aside for the replacement of the ambulances um but in this last fiscal year um the powers that being and their Infinite Wisdom decided to use all of the retained ears so now we're back to score one I think this is fine the way it is okay I mean do we actually have any authority over those red earnings we we are the Fiscal Agent for South County EMS but the board of oversight generally um oversees the operations now if there were some very specific things that needed to be taken care of like hiring a new director that kind of thing obviously the town of Deerfield gets involved because we're the ultimate Fiscal Agent so go for why would the wastewater treatment plant retained earning value be the one year's operating expenses where did that number come from what's say that again no I wastewater treatment plant retained earnings why should it be a minimum of one year's operating expenses yeah I was going to say that's pretty high say what and and right now we're we're doing that but um as we continue to work out that debt uh that probably won't be Dr below that um that does seem high I I believe that USDA recommended and highly encouraged us to keep at least 880,000 in there so maybe we should use that amount wa I just don't know where that value is is stated I it was a value that was given to me by our engineers and they said that that was what USDA had said so I I've just been kind of going by that trying to keep it at at least a million and of course we've gone through some inflation in the past few years so you know rule of thumb amounts probably ought to change anyway yeah what we what how much are one years operating expenses uh right now it's like 1.4 or 1.5 million so we could say a million right be good so kind of coming back to one year's operating expenses no a little less all right it's nine months we just say a million dollar well because in five years will a million dollars be worth a million dollars yeah it's more like 1.8 million 1.8 million was the debt so then one year's operating expenses 75% of one year's offering I'll leave it for one year I guess I was just wondering where it came from but it seems to be pretty close to being what we well I think I think where it came from is we were generally keeping a Year's worth you know okay it's just kind of I mean it's just the way it's the chips have fallen so speak like a nice Target to aim so we have at a minimum nobody toilet % of one years operating expenses plus Capital wait say that again um now it says should at a minimum cover 50% of one year's operating expenses and may be increased for Capital 75% 50% a year seems high I agree especially with our general stabilization we're at 5% or 7% I guess the problem with retained earnings is that with the Enterprise fund is that they can't come back and ask for more money or a transfer from Reserve fund or anything right so they have that is their only they need a bigger yeah all right does it say who decides how it gets used did say that up above uh no who does decide Board of Bo is there sewer Commissioners right yeah the sewer sewer Commissioners and then the board of oversight for scams well again that does kind of raise the question of why we're setting these targets for them if they're going to be spending whatever they feel like well this gives us my view of this document is it gives the finance committee a basis for our opinions when we go through the budget so if they come to us with a budget and they've taken retained earnings down to zero we can say and again it's just a policy so we can say we don't like that and they can say tough luck that's what we're doing and we can end up there anyway okay and then they do that and I would what do we do we got to come up with 50% just nag them the years expenses no it's a policy I mean if if we don't then we don't we don't yeah it it's a way to help us remind like what we've thought about so we don't have to reinvent the wheel each time that we talk about this each year like we can bring this out okay yeah this is what we had expected it's true yeah and yes and the vages then they know it yeah it's just and when someone new comes on the finance committee they can read this okay so are we happy enough with this piece yeah yep okay next Reserve fund um finance committee has sole authority to approve its use year in reserve fund balance so I had this in here I was actually thinking today what if we just said an amount less than 1% so we put a cap on it less than 1% we shouldn't be willy-nilly spending more than 1% of the budget and that leaves it open to whatever amount we feel is necessary yeah because you can see our our Trend yeah wait a minute you we're GNA limit how much we put into the reserve fund yeah well it's all the times we've been what we put in this is It's all under 1% so and we shouldn't be using the reserve fund for like people should be it's only for emergencies right un I can never remember un unforeseen uh extraordinary and unforeseen items you think i' be a not necessarily emergencies right yeah yeah that's a better description any opinions you guys okay with less than 1% yeah I think that sounds good I don't know if I am okay with that let's say no more that that kind of s makes it sound like hey let's not put too much into it yeah how about no more than 1% so that it's clear that that's a limit rather than a okay I know to me it's saying we don't want to we don't want to spend our money on the reserve fund we don't right don't we I think it should yeah I think there should be a limit on how much is in the reserve fund is there a statutory limit I don't think so you know I like to look at previous history what have we done how have we used it you know how much have we used um rarely come close to using all of it last couple years we've been higher though we've 80,000 so and and partly because we've we've um made the budget exactly we we've requested department heads to to Really tighten up their budgets and they tighten those up knowing that they would have access to those funds if something bigger happenss than what they were anticipating right so we could not put a limit what's that we could just not have a limit in our policy take this out um no I think it's a good good idea to set a General range just so that as Beth was saying you know future committees can look at it and say okay 1% that sounds about right what if it doesn't say as doesn't read like as a limit no more than 1% but about 1% or like something in the ball so we're down at like half a percent right now I saw that yeah no but which seems to be sufficient why don't just say 1% because it's a policy we can don't have to follow it [Laughter] yeah right no it is I like the way it reads now I like yeah because if it says 1% then somebody's GNA come back and say it should be 1% you're only at half percent. yeah I like this it gives us some room for a little bit more than what we've been doing but not too much okay everybody else happy with this yeah um overlay Surplus it just says there is one and we don't know what it is and so the assessors will figure it [Laughter] out it doesn't say that but whatever all right so that is all of section four actually what it says is the overlay is the the board assessor problem it yeah is is truly at their discretion but I do monitor it and if I feel like it's uh that there's been too much left on the table then I'll request them to release some which I did this year to help support the budget probably you know uh won't happen again for another few years okay all right so we got one we have a motion I I move that we um um approve section four second any discussion all those in favor unanimous 500 z um pension and opip section five huh Tak off we still got a quum okay doesn't matter see you later if you have any further comments throw them our way by email um pension and HEB um the pension liability 5.1 it it is managed by the Franklin Regional retirement system they have us on track to pay off at around 2035 they just tell us how much to pay and we pay it there's not really any discretion on our part um and it you know it's fine and so we're just doing what they say um section 5.2 is OPB um so we get an Actuarial analysis every two years um we're pretty sure this is the off year so we should get that analysis next year we have gotten copies of the report in the past to to look at it's a big long report where they look at what kind of healthc care different people have and how many employees there are and what they think that amount should be um should we be increasing it we we're committed to 4% should we strongly urge that that commitment be increased I mean I don't know whether we have the authority to do it or we can we can urge whatever we want I mean we have the authority to recommend it obviously yeah yeah sure I mean if so of course we're talking about we're talking about increase in capital stabilization exact General stabilization and I know we need need to increase opep but where are we going to find the money to do so oh absolutely yeah so my thought actually is that 2035 is actually not that far away strangely enough oh jeez so um at the point where that pension becomes paid off we should then put that amount and start putting that amount into OPB and I believe that was the goal of the select board also um should we codify it into the policy well it says it right there upon completion of funding the oh it oh sorry oh I see right here oh yeah it's in there okay completion yeah so I realized after I wrote this that that's not quite right because if you do that then the first year that works but in year two the last fiveyear average is going to drop because you didn't pay anything last year so I think it needs to be amount equivalent to the average pension liability funding plus the average opep funding over the past five years if you add those two together then that'll that'll do what we actually like it's the math right well I opep funding is not much pretty much nothing yet so what's going to happen when that liability is met we gonna just sit there and let it earn interest or we gonna start spending no it'll be um I I think the theory behind it is that it sits there and earns interest and the interest covers the the shortfall because it it cover covers the well the pension fund for example is supposed to be big enough what you're doing is paying right now for the pensions that you're incurring for the people that are working for you right so then you start spending out of that pension fund to pay their should we address the spending I I think as part of the policy it's it's like a reserve fund yeah in a sense we have we have a long time before we're ever going to be funded so oh it's true I don't think we need to worry about that yet but well I'm just thinking if well it the top now or later how this is probably insufficient but here this sentence right here oh come on um eventually it show up so that last sentence in the first paragraph policy is designed to accumulate resources for future benefit payments during the active service life of employees so I think it kind of says what it's for I'm oppos the whole opip thing anyway because it's just an accounting rule get changed 10 years or so ago but it's always it's always been there and the government County standard board decided we need to put it on the financial statements and that's when everybody so need to fund it so I'm gonna vote against it I just want to let you know that now I'm gonna vote against it not because I disagree with policy I disagree with funding over it the philosophy yeah the problem is that since whoever it is gby is that who decided um that you should fund OPB since they have decided that now um for example it's uh it's a consideration in our credit rating yeah and so if we just don't do what they said to do then our credit rating that's true so yeah and the Bonding Agency has even stated that in their documents to us yeah um and you know if you think about it we we just spent $442,000 out of the reserve fund to cover the school Group insurance and that was because we had a lot of people retire and now we're paying 50% of their insurance and then we brought on new employees that we're paying 65% of so so that liability is just going to continue to go up and and and so the the concept is that the liability goes up faster than you can raise your your tax rate which is why you fund the OPB so that you can stabilize that when you get to that point where you can't otherwise I guess it also forces you to pay the full cost of hiring new people right so if you just decide to expand your Workforce you're not just paying their salaries you're paying their benefits and their the incurring right the the retirement and OPB that you're incurring yes okay we make a motion I do have one question look at that policy that I sent you from um Bartholomew I don't know if that would affect any of the language that we want to put in there I wondered if we would want to table this until we come to our next meeting it was just a thought I don't know how much it would change it but okay we make a motion to approve section five or um to soon for that well we're almost done here yeah think we're so the question there there is a some what's the document that you sent me it's it's an OPB OPB funding policy that is uh well received by the Actuarial people so they would give you better ratings um so it was a recommendation to us to adopt something like that as a as a as an opep policy policy I was going to ask about that too yeah it seems like a good idea do that about this we vote on this as it's written right now we're GNA revote the Whole Thing Once Jim has worked his magic how how soon do you want that by tomorrow not September entirely out of the question but September a better October okay actually when are we going to do the um you know the EV Chargers let's target like right after um Labor Day so shouldn't we okay heaps the time all right shouldn't we get it done before they're back they're out of service now because they're doing the Larry lot shouldn't we get it reach a conclusion on that before they're back in service instead of continuing to lose money maybe be scheduled meeting in the second half of August yeah I was going to say the second half of August would work for me by then I should have hopefully okay fingers crossed financial statements for you to look at too I will forward the thing you sent me to the finance committee so everybody has it to look at um let's go ahead and vote section five as written right now Jim will reward everything we'll meet in late August sometime um and vote the whole thing and if we decide at that point between now and then having read this other thing that we want to change the opad we can do that that's good with that yeah good we have a motion we'll make a motion to recommend section five is written second any discussion all those in fav that's 4 you flipped I know I flipped good okay so oops did you vote for it I didn't even V he did he did he did 4 Z so just left after we voted section four um do we want to pick a date for our next meeting or do we want to Dole poll it we only have four of us here right now huh I will send out a doodle to pick a date for our next meeting it'll be Sometime Late August mid to late August I just wouldn't be able to do anything on the 22nd that would be a Thursday I'm gonna be in Purdue you're gonna what I'm gonna be at Purdue nice West lafette ah on the 22nd all right sounds great all right what joury what day do we get a date I'll second that no we don't have a date I'm gonna send out a doodle poll and ask for input since there's only four of us here okay all right we have a motion to adjourn any discussion make a motion J we have a motion yep and a second y so who who seconded I did oh okay I'm done all right all those in favor has anybody ever said no to oppose the