##VIDEO ID:G0GhgRWOP3M## e e e e e everyone it's six o'clock on the dot so we are going to call this city council meeting the order up first is going to be a moment of silence uh Pastor David Butler had to go up to Atlanta so we are just going to recognize a moment of silence so if everyone can please stand with me all right thank you councilwoman AB with the pledge all right for the approval of the agenda I do want to ask if we could do a um presentation with the Rotary Club that that was meant to get on the agenda and we had a mishap so um I'll make that motion to walk it on all right anything else I'd like to pull AA all right so we got 3A being pulled the fire district duck and we're going to walk on uh presentation from Rotary Club anything else all right seeing none I have a motion by councilwoman abir do I have a second second second by right figure it out that was a tie um all right I will call the vote he's almost there logging in there we go eyes have it so moved all right up first rotary all right so is the PowerPoint gonna be up how do that okay I Heard a Voice coming from somewhere I didn't know where from there we go go all right Mr Mayor uh members of the of the council we really appreciate your time tonight to uh present to you what we're proposing to do for the beach access areas so uh rotary has gone into partnership with the rescue tube foundation and it started in Hawaii it's made its way over to Florida uh I well first of all I'm Dion mon I'm with the dtin Rotary Club and this is Wayne Heisel he's our current president so um in the Panhandle area actually Navar has been at the tip of the spear they've already put some in and so we're kind of using their model uh to put these throughout the rest of the panhandles which is why we're here tonight so before we do that just a few um you know points to go over obviously you know drowning uh drownings are the third leading cause of unintentional deaths worldwide number one cause of death and children ages 1 to four and in Florida alone that's kind of an old study but back in 2022 there were 464 accidental drowning deaths from that so these aren't meant to replace lifeguards these are meant to supplement lifeguards obviously you know we have lifeguards on the beach but they go off duty and I think it was last year that there was a tragic drowning death right after the lifeguards went off duty so this is meant to hope hopefully prevent that so A couple of stats um currently there's over 600 rescue tubes that are being used there's been 200 plus known res cubes all rescues have been successful and there have been zero deaths uh when the rescue tubes have been used so again all rescue Tu or all rescues were successful using these tubes and there were zero deaths so uh those two stats alone in my opinion justify this but we'll give you some more reasons to say Yes um so this next slide is is titled liability but really there is none obviously you already have civil immunity for the city uh you've got your goods Merit an act um suar like I said who was with the Nar Club she's actually working with the legislature to add language specific to these within the Good Samaritan act so that uh they were covered there but when you look at the total data there was a 25-year study that was done in Hawaii and that's on the slide and overall there was a 60% decrease in deaths uh for the total area now if they focused in on on the areas that didn't have rescue tubes there was no decrease so when you look at a global area there was 60% and again if you focus in on the areas that had rescue tubes there was 100% decrease because all the rescue uh attempts were successful so the data is there um the system itself I'll have Wayne kind of do a little demonstration on how they work it's a 12T post that's buried in the sand about 4 feet you just someone comes up they undo the three straps obviously The Rescuer can put the the strap around their their torso go out and hand the tube push the tube out uh the great thing about this is It's large enough it's it's built to accommodate three adults so if The Rescuer is trying to make a rescue and gets under distress The Rescuer can also rely on the rescue Tobe and that's why there have been no deaths uh we've had too many examples of family members trying to go rescue a family member in distress and they both die um so I don't know that these will necessarily encourage people that wouldn't otherwise attempt to rescue to do it I guess it would and if they do there's there's no risk uh because like I said there have been zero casualties from the tubes but I think they're primarily designed to help prevent those deaths that are going to happen anyway because again you have a family member going out to save somebody and they both uh perish so it's an easy system we're offering to provide them at our cost uh or our expense the maintenance is is is nomal well actually get in the cost first um so if you look up there we've priced them out we understood from Parks and wck that they like the look of the white vinyl sleeve around the wooden post make it a little fancier this is Destin right Des beaches are the best so uh with that in mind they're about $235 a piece and we know you guys have 13 Beach accesses so that comes out to about $3,055 and we've already gotten some of the neighboring uh the mid Bay rotary club's already agreed to donate $500 towards this so we're not really worried about raising the funds for it uh and it's not I mean it's not expensive at all when you're really take that into consideration But ultimately as it's built as you're looking at it it's around $235 a piece um this is just a sample we know you guys don't use numers for Beach accesses we would have this correspond to the the street that it's NE next to or whatever and ultimately it's set up to where a rescuer or someone with The Rescuer can immediately call and say I'm at beach access X so 911 can be on their way while the rescue is under is underway there's also a phone number on here the the maintenance uh situation is we probably will have a group that'll check every four to six months but we'd like the lifeguards to let us know if they notice that one's in dis repair needs replacing the lifespan on these with the Florida Suns around two to three years so we expect to have to replace them every two to three years but there are some occasional maintenance uh things that come up like a strap gets torn or something so if the if the lifeguards and the city staff will work with us we'll make sure that they're maintained um Novar they've only experienced about one every six months as far as loss or theft they don't know if it's a loss from a you know a rescue being done and not being put back properly and it blows away or something versus an actual theft but even that's pretty low so it it looks like most people respect these as an actual life-saving uh tool as opposed to a toy so um occasionally they don't get put back properly so hopefully the lifeguards can do that for us but if not we'll come out and do it uh in a perfect world we'd love to schedule some work days with the city staff to get good PR and go out and put these in I know uh I've seen Mr mayor's uh skills with a sand auger so uh you can show us how it's done um but yeah so I think that would be a great PR event for us to get together with some City staff and put them out uh our goal would be to get them all in by spring break if it's approved by the council and so you know that gives us a few months to to get that implemented so here's um so here's where they're currently being used in the district like I said Navar started they already have 16 tubes out Pudo key has four Pensacola Beach has five Panama City just approved to put theirs or put some at their Beach accesses so that's pending implementation Walton County they just started the meeting process with that but they're uh very open to the idea and hopefully if it's approved for Destin my next push is to go to okusa county and say well look Destin's doing it you guys need to do it too um and ultimately we'd like to start working with private beach owners too the condos and stuff to get them out there but Step One is the beach accesses the public beach accesses because that makes the most sense all right and as you already know the the Dustin Fire Control District uh is is uh is on board that's the approval letter there and uh that's it I mean we'll entertain questions but we think this is a very cost effective way to help save some lives and and uh provide a service to the public councilwoman AB um since we don't have an official Motion in our package I'd just like to make a motion that we approve this and uh have City staff work with you to get it publicized and have Pio work with you as well I'll second all right second by councilman Stevens uh councilman Dustin I want to congratulate you on this product it's and idea it's great do you get a lot of them stolen I would think think somebody thinks that needs to be on their college dorm wall so far nar's Navar has only experienced about one every six months and either theft or or some loss somehow so the attrition rate on them is really low uh but there I'm sure especially if you get them in before spring break somebody will take one back but we're gonna have extras on on hand for that very for that very reason thank you all right councilman Stevens I'm excited about this I think it's really cool um so it's this is going to be right next to the access points um is it worthwhile to maybe p a sign on both sides that way when they're walking to the beach they can um get information or is it or is it typically just on the sign uh visible from the beach side so the way they've been done before is basically right at the um the the edge of the sand dunes because I know there's already other signage at the beach accesses with the trash cans and stuff we'll put it there uh so that it can be noticed with the other stuff um we're certainly open to putting some kind of signage on the entrance as people were walking to the beach to see it we'd be open to doing that um so yeah we'd be glad to work with the city on that cool I'd love to see signs on the entrance too sure okay all right councilman Bagby yeah thank you guys uh yeah it's a great plan I would ask Teresa when you go to the next TDC meeting one of the things we don't do well here in Walton County didn't do it well and I tried to get it changed but Bay County does an outstanding job which beach access you're at they've got those huge beautiful signs that says 81 and people will go to those Beach accesses on their birthdays and take pictures of here I am 60 at beach access number 60 or whatever because is there a recommended uh distance between each of these stations as opposed to we're going to have five right there in Crystal Beach off each of the streets that go down and then we're going to go you know three miles before we get to the next public beach access I mean in my opinion the more the better right because you know if they're spaced out too far then someone's not going to see it or you know they're not they're not going to be a to run to get to it in time so uh I mean we can certainly look at phasing in more as opposed to one and every you know access point you know that's up to the city and we'll be glad to work with the city because we we want to put as many of these as we can uh along the beaches for the for the Panhandle yeah cuz I asked that question because James Lee Park which is not a city beach park you know it's the county that's a if you're running from one end of James Lee Park to the other end in that soft sand trying to grab that or even to the middle that's a good Hall oh absolutely and so by the time you get up there if you haven't lost your breath then running back to the edge or one of the edges and then swimming out right it's so I I just an Olympian no I I just ask if there's a you know they recommend you put them in every 500 yards or they recommend you put them in you know and whatever that is that's that's the one that's how I'd like to see it because I don't you know some of our beach accesses are you know this far apart and some of them are that far apart you know so that is a good point and and so that's certainly something we can work with the city on the more populated Beach accesses yeah there might need to be more than one yeah you know spaced out 25 yards or something like that but other than that thank yall that's it's a great idea thank you right Council abar anything else uh yeah I just wanted to first of all thank you'all for bringing this to us I think it's an awesome idea I think it you know we can't have enough of these and I would definitely you know propose that we have at least you know 12 and like Mr Bagby said try and be strategic on the areas that we know are the most likely to be not so that they're too far apart but not that we have them all condensed in one area either but um thank you for bringing it to us I'm glad we can get this done and work with y'all and I guess we'll take it to a vote and verify that though H yeah thank you just a this is a great idea and I'm shared Mr Dustin's sentiment it's just congratulations this is super cool it's something that we absolutely need it's a great supplement to the fire department and what they're doing so thank you first of all hope hope we don't ever need them but if we need them it's awesome to know looks like they're going to be there you know um I had just a thought you know you they don't disappear very often but would it does it behoove us to kick in like a and throw an air tag in there we thought about that yeah CU I mean it's not like people are going to take them throw them in their car and drive back to Andalusia you know they're probably going to go back to their and if you get an alert it says hey your tube is at you know anyways just a thought no we've actually talked about that and in a perfect world they'd all have air tags installed you know that increases the price uh and so that's the initial factor in there but um yes because then we can notify the police and they can go retrieve it and then escort that person to Jail uh so you know right right good that's all I got all right seeing no further discussions we will call the vote all right I have it unanimously so moved congratulations all right we we we'll we look forward to working with you all on it all right appreciate you guys all right with that um we are going to go into public comments I'm going to start on the right side and go left Mr Dallas Don you going yep I I don't see anyone yep yes sir take a Time Don Dallas 442 Snapper it rained again I got 8 ft of water in my garage again okay uh we got all these plans for the city storm waterers part of it Matty Kelly the swells by me and other areas uh we got a lot of stuff for on your agendas public parking okay walkways bicycle trails all kind of stuff that's all good but as I said a few months back let's take care of the people that live here okay that's all I'm asking I got two kudos to go out today one of them's that young lady sitting right there my wife emailed her the all that water come in my garage again probably pretty early in the morning it wasn't 5:00 was pretty early emailed her in five minutes I get a phone call from this lady call Mr Burgess hung up called didn't get a voicemail nothing Mike answered he said I'm five minutes away he came to my house he come up with a great plan the best one I've heard in the last four years we've been trying to tackle this stuff I won't go into it cuz he knows about it but uh I want to thank both of them Mr Burgess Miss abar is that how you say it AAR I had to look it up on the internet today I said oh my wife said I don't want to get up and call it stupid like everybody else does but anyway I appreciate y'all and uh oh and I did go out today and purchased uh three of them bags you know you throw in front of your garage that cost me 72 bucks so if anybody wants to take up a collection you know let my old retired butt get some money whatever uh and uh much respect to all you folks in here for the job you do I said here a while back and I misspoke I said I wouldn't have your job I didn't mean in derogatory M way I mean that's a pain in a thank y'all bye appreciate you d right anyone else right seeing none I'm going to close public comments and we were going to go to 3A that was pulled off the consent and who pulled I did you want to jump in Jim sure thank you mayor yeah I'm going through this what is the cost what our initial cost here in dollars not in we're going to do our fair share of utilities and we're going to do our fair share of the debt or whatever you know what what is the actual dollars and cents that we can put in the budget the fair share of of the um lease is zero because the fire district is not currently paying anything to the state for their Sovereign submerged land leas and I think it was written that way so that in the event in the future that there's some charge from the state to the district which we don't anticipate but they wanted in there that if that was to occur they would have the right to ask the city to pay a proat a share of that but right now it's zero and if that was to occur we would have the option and council's discretion to terminate the lease um as far as Utilities in trash I'm going to have to defer to Chief Sasser I don't believe that that would be very much Crystal I think thought it was less than $100 a month but it's minimal so what you just said I like why isn't it part of the agreement well it does say that in there that we're not paying anything it does yes and that we're only paying $100 in utilities it doesn't say says our pradish air for one slip for however many slips we have which is one out of the six but if our boat goes out twice a week okay and fwc's boat goes out every day who's using more utilities yeah I'll I'll let them answer that but let me read you the part about the zero that you liked also so that you're confident about that because that's on page two and when it says the base lease fee is that Prat a portion of the fee Under The Sovereign submerged land lease the next sentence says as of the effective date lesser isn't charged and so our prata share of zero is zero that's where that came from as for the utilities I will defer to our representatives from the fire district hit that gray button turn the light red and floor is yours I'm sorry sir just hit that gray button and turn the light red yep in the middle there you go we're working we're on okay so help me with the question again okay utilities yes sir it's it shouldn't be six you know there six slips six occupant you pay one six of the utilities if our boat goes out twice a week with code or whatever and fwc's boat goes out twice a day we're not using the same amount of utility so I'm just trying to figure out what's our fair share we came up with what we thought was the fairest way to be able divide this was to divide it by slips which is the same thing first off I'll start out with I want to thank the city for the slip that we've been able to utilize that has saved us a lot of money because we haven't had to pay coming up next okay no no no I just wanted to make sure that uh that that the council understood we're very appreciative which is one of the reasons that we're offering up the slip that we do have to the city we feel like that's um only right of us to do so um we were able to build a dock with um enough flips that we felt um we would be able to offer one back to the city as the city has been so generous that offer us the same with that said the same way that the fishing fleet operates which is pra based upon each one of the slips um they pay we pay the utility and we pay the water down there at that current slip and I can tell you we haven't used it since we moved into our um current um firehouse and had our own dock we haven't use that slip since but yet we pay that bill every month because we pay R1 40th or whatever the share is of all the utility and water that's being used down there other than putting a meter uh for the electric or for the water um garbage is what it's going to be as far as there's a traps receptacle for whoever's going to use it some place and somebody to dispose of it um but other than trying to put a meter at each one of those slips to try to capture what that cost might be we felt this is the fairest way to be able to do it and the same way that the fishing fleet does it down there and again I'll go back we paid that $40 to $70 every month for the last three years and we haven't used that slip uh that slip in the last three years really so we thought that was just the fairest way to be able to do it okay and then back to Kim uh see I thought that was just from the because the base date we're not going to owe anything because there's no there's no there there of this agreement so if today's the base date we're not we're we still have our slips down by the park right in the harbor and is there some reason we're not going to use that one and go out you know by Crab Island because actually most of our problems seem to be in the harbor as and we don't have any jurisdiction in Crab Island no that that is a decision for the city council this is simply if the city council wants to use one of the fire district slips we had talked about it during the um dock approvals and all of that and it was offered to us we have a rentree offer to use the slip if we don't want it I mean I'm sure the fire district is okay with not allow if we don't want it I mean it's a council question which slips you want to use Harbor Bay but ask the staff you you got the harbor option you got the non-h harbor option the bay option or whatever which which one do we want um I think we'd have to consult with Troy on that one um specifically uh but because the mon the boat is utilized um to take out the monitoring crew a lot um and you are correct we do not have jurisdiction um out near Crab Island so most of the patrolling would likely be in the harbor area U but we can certainly um and consult with Troy and get that answer I I don't I don't have the exact data to make that determination right here right now yeah I mean I appreciate the offer don't don't get me wrong but I'm we own a slip you know in in a harbor that we actually have jurisdiction in and why we would move our boat you know our use someplace else just didn't pass my common sense just as someone that's been at the Code Compliance hearings over the years I will say we have had compliance issues on Calhoun as well I'm not talking about a livery vessel business or anything like that I'm saying at some of the residential um homes there have been code compliance issues too so it's just another view that the Code Compliance officers can have I'm not saying to choose the bay over the harbor uh you might want both but again it it there's no rent so I don't know what you'd be losing by signing on the lease yeah I well it's not it's a good point the only thing I was thinking is if we want more transient slips that seems to be only the benefit if we want an additional but other than that to your point I mean the coach would be in the harbor but if we're interested in more Transit that would probably be one of the few benefits yeah but that comes with the cost and if it's 70 bucks a month or 50 even if it's 50 bucks a month you know that's $600 that's $600 that you know over 10 years is $6,000 and we could buy or upgrade our boat or something I I'm not opposed to it I just it doesn't make sense to me so I would like to make a motion that either Troy come back and tell us at the next meeting or somebody just say here's why we need to have it I appre I really do appreciate the offer but I just don't see why we would enter agreement out there and I'm sure if we looked at the number of water related code incidents there's probably more in the harbor than there is out on Calhoun but I'm not asking y'all to go you know back through all the code logs to see where we're spinning I just it it doesn't pass my Common Sense test I'll just be honest with that all right so I do have a motion on the table do I hear a second before we continue to discussion not sure uh the motion was to uh pull pull this item until Troy or Larry or whoever speaking for code prefer that we don't table it so we can discuss yeah okay so the the motion on the floor is just to we're going to postpone it and it's not a table so I can keep the discussion going okay councilman Stevens thank you I I appreciate the offer too um and I agree a lot with Mr Bagby said I mean it definitely pits our code further away from where most of the issues are um one thing to note um there's already a a boat lift at the current slip that we're using so if we were to go um and use the District's uh slip we're probably looking at extra 105,000 to install a boat lift so with with that kind of money I'd almost rather just keep the current option as long as we can all still use that boat use that boat lift chief that confirm we'd have to buy a boat lift as well well we got you here get you on the record um I'm not going to require the district isn't going to require um the city to have a um a lift there if you want to tie it up and just leave it there but do understand do understand where it is and understand that the current that runs and the winds that blow uh that was one of our concerns with even purchasing the prophecy and where it's located versus leaving our boat in the harbor in a protected area um there there was a there for us there was a lot of discussion on the two locations but for for us the decision was made to buy the property because of our uh need for a quick response uh as it was before we had to drive takes 10 to 15 minutes and traffic and that kind of thing so we had to make this kind of judgment calls for us I'll go back to the the question is we're not going to require one however where it's located a slit would be beneficial in order not to tear up the asset that you're going to be storing there and I and I'll also throw it in while I'm here is that the lift that is there that's our lift so just kind of throw that out there and we have no problem working with the city if uh and right now we have actually a great relationship with the city we always have um they're utilizing the LIF Troy came to us and talked to us and and needed a place to be able to put his boat and so on and so forth we said yeah no problem go ahead and utilize it and we and we continue to as I said before we continue to pay the fees to the for that slip for the electricity and for the water and all that kind of stuff so but no we're not requiring that to be done I just think it would behoove whoever is going to put their boat there to put it on a lift just just merely its location no I agree with that um is there a way that we can take over those fees and continue with where we are or or even tie our our own electricity up at maror where we can use that lift Mr Mayor yes right who's who seconded the uh motion to table Kevin and if if not the table not the table yeah no just that we would get more yeah more Direction yeah all right anything else Council Stevens all right Council woman AB my questions were the same about the lift so that's already been addressed so I don't need to ask anything you can move on to the next person I think Mr Schmidt all right councilman Schmidt thank you um Chief saster I appreciate it are y'all um are y'all installing a boat lift for any other any other group so I understand that um there's a permit was pulled for six Boat Lifts so are y'all doing are y'all installing them any of them okay so when we initially applied for it um we were anticipating unionizing the same contract so we pulled it so that everybody could pay they would pay for their own lift but we would have already pulled the permits for them to be installed by the one contractor so we pulled it all at the same time if that's where that question was we're not we're not um putting in a lift for anyone else or any other agency um that agency's going to have to have that lift installed uh the sheriff's office has chosen to use a different uh company to have theirs installed which is fine for us uh ours was a little bit more expensive for a variety of reasons one double pulley we need to get our boat in the water quicker um and remotes and other stuff so we anyway there's a is a little different so it probably cost a little bit more uh so they found another company to come in install those at a different we don't care who you have anyone that's going to be out there utilizing we don't care who they utilize gotcha would the district be uh uh in favor of not charging us any utilities or anything for that I don't think that's going to pass the group that I work for okay cuz I think they they're going to feel like everybody needs to pay their fair share cuz similar um as I said when we were down at the fishing fleet um our boat might not have went out the whole month uh but we still paid our $40 to $60 to pay our fair share um and I'll um we feel like that's going to be as Fair as we can make it I don't know how how we can make it any any fairer other than trying to put meters in but then the expense of the meters at some point it it the that doesn't benefit thank you um yeah I I mean I appreciate the fire districts I believe it was one of the commission that came here in the beginning about this uh I agree about the need for Public Safety and having all these docks over there for the state and for the Coast Guard or whoever else wants to use them uh but I do not think the city of dtin falls under that same reasoning um I've asked a few times to I think to different code people and directors and non- directors why do we need it and I I still don't have a really good answer from any of them um so you know if if the if D's not going to pay a penny to be over there sure but citizens already pay our taxes do certain things and uh we we also pay taxes to the to the fire district as well um and so even if it's $75 until I can find a reason and be told that we need a boat over there and now we got to put a lift in there for 10,000 or more no thank you uh I appreciate the offer but the city doesn't need it in my opinion we can go from the harbor all the way to goes by you in 10 or 15 minutes if there's a inspection to do I don't think we're rushing out for an emergency like sheriff's office or coast guards having to do um so I think we can just puddle around from the harbor which I don't even think we're even using it so it's like why even why I even worry about it but uh yeah so I I'm not going to support doing the lease at all to be honest all right Council uh n thanks and that's what I was going to point out the other order body we have complete jurisdiction in is Joe's bio this location is more arguably between the two um and we just had I think complaints about Joe's bio what was it at the last meeting people doing jet ski sloms and racing through there and and we do have a lot of issues over there and I'd have to go back and look at my map but Indian bio is that within our jurisdiction nobody's sure huh and neither am I but it could be a portion of Indian Bayou has city limits I think part of it is so we have possibly three different water bodies it's a more central location uh this lease is at a minimum of how long it's currently three years and um has annual renewals if the parties want to renew so after three years it can be terminated for any it can always be terminated yeah and of course if we did we' have our boat lift that we bought that would perhaps go somewhere else I don't know I I don't have a great deal of reservation since it is located centrally between the water bodies that we're supposed to be administering to but we'll see how that goes Cosman King so if we have to if we've got a this just for clarity if we've got to service something in Joe's Bayou for Via our code boat we would just drive it around from the harbor well my initial concern was that the this this location was too far from the harbor but also you know it's those are it's rough out there sometimes you know a lot lot of days it's rough so getting from there to the harbor is tough but you know getting from the harbor all the way to Indian by you I don't know I I'm kind of having a hard time weighing the options it also from a I mean it seems like a it seems s to me it seems silly to turn down the op for you know potentially $30 a month or $50 a month I just I'd like to hear I'm I'd like to hear from Troy and code and everybody else I mean we can all come up with our own opinions but like yeah I'd like I would prefer to hear from from uh people who are using it um and as far as the lift goes you have to have a lift there nobody docks their boat on Cal nobody you know um except for maybe some anyways um um anyways I'd like to hear from Troy and the people who are using the boat before we go turning down such a generous offer Council M thank you sir um I just want to point out councilman Stevens had two questions and I don't think he got an answer or a direction from either one one question was was there a way to calculate the costs associated with the boat lift that they own and the second was was there a way to get some type of electric current coming from Royal Melvin Park and then we just kind of glazed over it so can we at least get those questions answered or a direction for those two questions um yeah I'm sure that the fire district could uh share uh the acquisition date and and useful life and we could get a you know a uh Netbook value of the of the lift that they installed and uh we can definitely Michael Burgess is looking at the uh electric bills every month for every location I'm sure he has uh Calhoun park or Clement Taylor Park pulled out so that would also be easy to share with you thank you very much all right coun Schmidt yeah just two follow-ups uh one Mr King um we'll be paying for something that we can't use until we install a boat lift first you know so it will cost us and we're not going to be using it till then uh and then to Mr D's point the uh for my understanding we don't have jurisdiction to do anything about the wave Runners so to your point about needing to get out there to respond to that I was told specifically we couldn't do anything about it uh the pole that's floating around in the bayou I was told specifically we can't do anything about that um because it's different jurisdictions Coast Guard Sheriff's Office so you know you bring bringing up some good points but I was told specifically from Sheriff's Office and our city officials that we can't do any of those things so um I look forward to hearing from shy I agree but I mean I just don't know if I agree with those points because we have no jurisdiction doing that stuff K can we can pass ordinances in Joe's Bayou but today we have no need to go over there to fix a jet ski problem because we have no jurisdiction to do anything yeah the Sheriff's Office was saying there was no violation that they saw As I understood it not that they couldn't do anything is that right Captain F right but Mr D said that we to respond to the retki situation there's nothing we could do about the jet but I don't want anyone to think we don't have jurisdiction in Joe's valou because it's in the city limits it's not like the other water bodies it's actually included in our Charter City boundaries so we can enforce the codes in Joe's Bayou differently than we than we could not in the bayou all right I mean I'm sorry in the bay so for that clarification whether it's the harbor or Joe's if if we do have an ordinance of no wake our code can then enforce no wake if it's in our jurisdiction yes okay we just have to put those okay okay our code office doesn't need to go do anything code gotcha anything else Kevin all right C Schmidt final spinal bite oh Stevens sorry Stevens only thing I've noticed um only thing I noticed just watching uh Code Compliance actually Dock at the current slip in in the harbor um I've seen them struggle with Just Wind and if now we're going to be pitting them in the bay now they're going to be struggling with the wind and current trying to dock in and I I just want you all to keep that in mind it's it's the Code Compliance boat driving skills has not been the best with with Just Wind so right good point Cosman dtin thank you mayor I would just point out the fact that we have already regulated in Joe's bio and the harbor we had no wake zones in the back half of both arms of Joe's B we have complete jurisdiction to pass rules there do we have a rule against um racing now but no but we certainly can regulate going on in there so um otherwise we couldn't pass any rules regulating anything in the harbor either which of course I don't think any of us would Advocate Council MC one quick note boat slips in this town are gold they're rare they're hard to find I think maybe we should consider something or at least listen to to have a good argument of why we shouldn't whether we utilize it on a steady basis or not all right so before I call the vote is there anything else that you would like staff or anyone else to dig up for info for bringing this back in two weeks back I would like to know how many times we have used our boat in the past 12 months to actually use and and proactively using it for a reason I think we don't have the staff anymore that knows how to use the boat we used to have a staff person that could use the boat that's a question for Troy but that's my understanding all right any other data that you would like to see in two weeks other than the observation that for $40 a month we can have a new slip and have more available for Transit and and and the $40 is potentially it it's it's probably less than that I mean when you're talking about the the Des fishing fleet you're talking about 70 boats who who are hooked up to shore Power Water they're using an outrageous amount of resources all right we're going to call the vote for doing a little bit more fact finding and being back in two weeks say it a little B more elegantly all right eyes have it so moved all right Mr Mayor yes sir Ray consent agenda 3 B and C have not been approved yes no correct yeah we need to make a motion to approve 3B and C second all right any further discussions seeing none call the vote vote on the consent agenda rest of the consent agenda we go call the vote all right I have it so moved Mrs city manager good evening mayor and council members uh so this evening the first item up on the city manager report is a review of the Mobility plan um you all have seen this Mobility plan a few times before we need to get this adopted so that we can uh move on to the the final step of completing calculation of new Mobility impact fees so tonight we have Allan with 3tp to uh with a very short slide presentation um to walk you through this item thank you good evening I'm going to give you a brief overview if you recall the plan was to bring the plan back to you this um evening for adoption and then to move towards finalizing the feast study before bringing the fees back for adoption and I'll give you um and everyone else watching a quick overview of the a ability plan then talk about where we stand with the fee study update the purpose of the plan is to ensure proper maintenance of the transportation Network through 2050 we've identified needs out to that date uh We've identified and addressed numerous safety issues in this plan in the neighborhoods in particular um on on back roads and neighborhood streets increasing options for walking and biking and and it enables us to establish that up-to-date Mobility fee uh for the city we have have included um tonight the draft Mobility plan with all of the maps and projects finalized per what was discussed previously with you all and um it is now ready for adoption it's in its final form according to all of our previous discussions uh the there are key Transportation issues covered that of safety of level of service for um not just vehicles but also biking and walking that was analyzed as a function of this project and then Network con connectivity which is long B an emphasis for the city where connectivity of streets paths sidewalks and bike lanes were um contemplated and projects were identified to create a complete Transportation Network for all modes in the city we've come up with a list of projects as depicted on this map um and those are broken down into several different categories which I'll go through here real quick the cross town is listed as a separate project and includes the current segment but also the future buildout recommendations for the whole project itself um from end to end it also has the street network connections in it uh which almost all of them came out of the comprehensive plan we made a decision to include all of the projects in the comp plan in the Mobility plan um and not choose as a staff to take any of those out without direction we have bicycle and pedestrian projects that are uh many and numerous to close CL those gaps in the network and to make sure that we have a complete system for walkability and biking in town and then intersection enhancements which will largely go hand inand with some of those Network improvements but really focusing on how you cross the street can you cross safely is there a way to um to sign it for safety and that sort of thing and then lastly Community parking facilities which we've discussed previously which are for park park and walk activities uh for crystal Beach and the harbor the prioritization process uh happened over the course of um several different events we did take a um a technical look at this and created a staff benefit score that was conducted by um our team and working with the Community Development staff we had public input to prioritize projects if you recall the meetings the map on the left is from one of those meetings where we had people put dots on the map and then we went through advisory committees to also get input on these projects to bring to you um the collective wisdom of all of that work into a phasing assignment for each of the projects in the plan on the fee study update we received some direction at the August 5th meeting of the council to create a Mobility fee based on the phase one projects of the Mobility plan excluding the Zerby parking garage and at the time um we had we had estimated a fee for fingle single family dwellings uh your typical dwelling of 5,273 that's approximately 3.7 times the current fee we do currently in the feast table have these uses listed so residential is listed as a series of um ranges of size and all of those have different fees associated with them in the current Table we're using the it 7th generation um trip table trip trip manual for this on that real quick uhhuh what why isn't the rest filled out that sounds like a dumb question but I was just kind of curious what with the the graph there as far as are they just all dwelling all 9.58 they they well it has not been able to evolve Beyond just having one single trip rate for a residential okay that's one of the technical tasks that we have to do is translate their General number into all these categories based on the size occupancy of units and so we're doing some of that estimating now that's work to be completed and it's why you're not seeing it yes okay that's a good question um so the proposed residential land uses include long-term residential dwelling units which is to say not short-term rental um Affiliated uh properties but we'll have a table for long-term residential and short-term residential uh we're calculating the short-term residential trips right now as well but those are new numerous um times the daily trips of the long-term residential so they will have a higher fee we discussed the implications of that previously we have a whole list of current non-residential land uses um and these all when you walk in the door here with your development you look for your use on this table and determine whether you are compatible with any one of these and that's how your feed gets calculated um and so we have made some enhancements to this table this is the existing we're proposing some new non-residential land uses to include a finer gradation of um shopping plazas and supermarkets um which will have a couple of different categories within that we also have recommended adding medical Dental Office Buildings as opposed to just hospitals because those are so prevalent these days and they definitely have different trip characteristics in your typical hospital so those are two of the highlights in terms of adding use is on here and this slide shows the percent change in Daily trips um the according to the old item manual the Seventh Generation versus the 11th um that Top Line the residential dwelling has gone down 1.6% so they have fewer trips per household some of the commercial uses notably have higher trips per household and you're seeing the percentage increase in trips for these different uses so um for those of you you who are interested in the impact of this kind of policy on individual dwelling units and residential units uh there's one pie that gets funded and because the commercial uses have grown higher in trips the slice of pie for the residential stuff will be smaller and Commercial will be bigger according to the calculations so they're paying uh because of the trip rates now not non-residential uses will pay a higher percentage of the total fee than residential uses we did also determine through our research that you can incentivize any type of development including housing with your fee structure so uh we need some sort of basic justification for that but we can alter these fees um as a matter of policy if you all would choose to do that and by that you mean we can reduce the fees if they're doing things that we want to incentivize correct okay yes there's got to be some kind of reasonable sniff test public purpose far this but yes of course that can be done um so the statutes have certain elements to it that I'll remind you at this time there's you need to have a demonstrated need study for fees uh which we're working on completing now um you have to demonstrate extraordinary circumstances for necessitating the need to increase these uh which we're writing up uh the study must be adopted within 12 months of the initiation of the new impact so you have a year um to adopt a finalized study and you need to do some other things like providing notice and having two public meetings prior to these fees being adopted and notably the fee increase must be approved by at least two-thirds votes of city council that's Florida statute so you all pretty much have to be in a fairly consistent agreement on this to get this done so our next steps we're here tonight to request the adoption of the Mobility plan uh we're completing the fee study now um we are preparing to come back to you all on November with that fee schedule updated and the fee study completed and a recommendation for a Mobility fee um schedule um after that you before finalizing and actually enacting those you would have to have those two public meetings um and initiate an increase after a period of public comment and and meetings so that concludes the presentation on the Mobility plan all right and with that Council manber I move that the city council adopt the Mobility plan as presented request that 3tp Ventures brings back Mobility fees based upon the Mobility plan for Council consideration a motion do I hear a second second second by councilman Stevenson uh any further discussions seeing none call the vote oh oh all right I was like oh my goodness I I thought something was weird wasn't testing wasn't checking my sniff test all right Cosman Bagby so I see that nc6 sunchase Boulevard is back on and it goes all the way from Indian Trail to uh Indian Bayou Trail is that correct CU I remember all the people we had here before who just went crazy uh but I think that was part of that was because we had it hooked up to an existing Street and going through the swamp there yeah correct I think they going to the golf cart that was a map eror that map error has been corrected yes thanks a lot I just want to make sure that that's where it is and then I had a about uh mu6 so that's going down the power easement the Gulf Power easement and I do have something to add to that as well go ahead I I've talked to uh the florid of suntrail which is also there and they are also pulling that line and going to go down dolphin South before heading over to the Walton County Line so I don't know if that was in relation to the suntrail because that was their proposed state map but even they have already done a south on Dolphin versus going over into the gated communities there right because well there's a couple issues there the neither one of the gated communities want the trail through their Community uh happen to know because I live right there and it outfalls where there is nothing there because everything we've been pushing and Walton County's been pushing everything to the cic 98 gol drive whatever you call it the two counties are different so where we are have a wide Trail so I'm just trying to figure out where we think mu6 is going because I thought it was going uh South at some point and hooking up where we spent all that money widening the bike trail or all the people R along and I may have missed a meeting and it it went back and that that's fine I just before I vote for it I want to know where where is Mu six proposed to be is it proposed to be where the Florida suntrail is or is it proposed to be where it is on this map in this current iteration of the Mobility plan well we have it on the map where it say on the map if it needs to be different then we there is time to modify that and change that um but this the nature of this discussion is news to me tonight so I apologize for not being prepared to answer well this is part of the plan right it is it is want to make sure we got the plan like we want the plan yeah sure I want to make sure we got all our little map errors corrected and everything so is Mayor is it in your mind is it uh down Scenic Gulf Drive or is it Highway 98 they have it from the west side all the way to Dolphin correct as far as the new sunr again this is us last month just going back and forth email they wanted to like consult on just hey sure are we going the right way I was like yes we've talked about this with our Mobility plan um so at least for m mu4 in terms of the state's map for SunRail it's going to go from 98 through the power line easement all the way to Dolphin then go south and then East to the Walton County Line on cenic 98 and then Golf Drive Walton okay so we'll I have to make a motion to make that change or since we already have a motion to approve the plan how how do we get that changed in the plan unless I guess I can ask the motion maker to change uh with that change yeah for motion to amend yeah I can I can amend my motion to add that change in before you bring it back and then cust St I I'll agree with that all right right you good with that all right all right bye go keep going all right oh okay okay I guess my my questions are more philosophical in nature how many how much money are we going to raise with these fees to to implement this plan it we have not done a revenue estimate per se um are you talking about the life of the the fees themselves over to take 2050 like an estimate would be around an estimate of over life or a yearly amount would would work too I just I always have to have an idea about what I'm spending before I spend it correct uh well in that case it's about a million and a half a year would be my Revenue estimate for this okay with the estimate of what the fees would be which is also an estimate right right that's that is a that is um looking at what happens today with this estimate of about 4X and applying that you're going to raise it to a million5 yeah and I see that you have a uh an estimate for a single family home of $5,000 or so which is 3.7 times what it is now or 400% increase um does that apply to remodeling or just new construction only it it does not apply to remodeling it applies the impact fees only apply to change of use and expansion of use so so if you were going to put additional um square footage on a building then they would apply they don't apply to Interior renovation or building value in in that case Okay so if we're going to put additional square feet on a single family home that it does apply it does apply if you're if you're adding to a use yes now a provision could be put into place where that is not the case um in your fee policy but that's something that hasn't been ined and I suppose you put in a provision that it doesn't apply to single family homes at all one could make the fee itself um like they don't pay any fee is that what you were asking about I guess you could go to that length you would have to say something to the effect of uh we have a policy position to write down the cost of the fee for single family because we support uh housing for permanent residents which we we need need and value in this community and the availability of permanent residen is for sale is at risk um by certain factors in the community and so um I I believe that I could I could muster a um a statement that would be supportable legally to do such a thing to reduce or or down to whatever level the council wanted to and so that would all come now or later any my reason for being here tonight and showing you some of this is to get some guidance from you all on some of these kinds of okay well hopefully we'll give in a second um what bothers me most about this is and it's that very issue it it's at least something like in stomach it's not applied to single family homes because after all I've heard now for 10 years for longer affordable housing we don't no one can live in dtin they can't afford to live in dtin we're about to attack $5,000 onto that plus if they want to put an addition Granny's Suite or any additional square footage on their home we're going to we're going to get them with this too so I would and before we're done I will I will make an amendment that we exempt to the best of our ability single family homes and then you come to the and help me understand a typ okay let's say a 5,000 foot commercial building what would our fee be under this compared to what it is now in the proposed fees that we are trying to really find out what they are it would in that particular case um and the reason why we included those additional uses in the tables is to be able to compare um similar to a residents a General commercial use is going to not change a whole lot from what I recall um the big Changers are shopping centers would pay a lot more um Convenience Stores um and uh the rest of them are fairly level it it appears to be so it would it would pay the same sort of three 3.7 to four times as much or 100% more basically that's right and what about high density um housing we have not separated out um high density housing or apartments or any sort of other housing type right now the table has housing units in it um if we wanted to differentiate between Apartments let's say or multi family development and single family development we could do that in the table okay well what's the Nexus because act you know high density where you put 400 units on a few Acres of course has a much bigger impact on Transportation than a single family home on half an acre so where's the Nexus or the rationale between not making high density multif family pay more they the the trip rates in the it manual don't separate it out for some unknown reason they have not done the surveys to do this research so we don't have a um we don't have that as a basis to charge something different um and what we found recently is that occupancy rates are somewhat similar between your average single family home and apartments um so in terms of the the number of people if people are appr proxy for transportation impact they're kind of similar these days um so the the thing about apartments is that use that that that um impact is hyper localized and it in where you build them they can be very impactful more so than a house for sure but that's per dwelling unit correct yeah that's per unit yeah so 400 regardless of the is 400 times they're going to get charged by unit a multif family developer will get charged by unit and they will pay you know um each unit will get its fair share of of the of the fee if you wanted a separate fee for single family from from multif family we could produce that on the fee table and if you wanted to have a policy that was beneficial towards single family homes you could do that as a matter of policy um but the the number crutching aspect doesn't leave us a lot of avenues to just do that on a technical basis like you might be describing well I understand the per unit rationale but the fact is I think we all understand if you put enough high density onto as smaller amount of Acres the impact on the traffic is tremendously more than all single family homes and we have um gone down that path here for a very long time so I would say that we also need to try to separate seate those two out where the developer of 400 apartments or tow houses on a very small acreage who is after all making a hell of a lot more money pay for the impact right clear guidance all right anything else cadestin is uh anybody else have anything to say oh yeah we got a couple okay well then I'll wait till they get hear what they have to say I'm right say without objection to that recommendation we will go ahead and make that separate out those uses so you all have maximum flexibility in looking at them separately and contemplating the fee structure for them separately and we'll take under consideration what you're saying and try to come back with something that is sensible uh councilman Bagby and then AAR okay so help me here Hotel Current land uses hotel motel per room generates 9.02 trips right daily trips according to and these slides aren't numbered it would help us in this conversation and the residential is 9.58 so if you put in a hotel and I was looking for apartments but I couldn't find apartments are they are apartments in here in one of these tables for current non-residential or residential use es they are not and that's what we were just discussing Mr B is to add we were going to add that so on one page and you can't see the slides up there but on one page it has 9.02 for per room for hotel motel and then on the very next slide it says a hotel motel per room is 7.99 and I'm trying to figure out current versus proposed that is straight up a function of the it trip generation manual that is published the seventh versus the 11th Edition okay and that's I was talking about that piece of P the slices of the pi change because we're going to divide total trip Demand by these different uses so they're actually advantaged in having their fee their trip rate go down a little bit so the other thing that I'm confused about here I guess is this next step so it says there's four things you got to do you got to adopt a Mobility plan you got to complete a feast study you got to host two public workshops then you got you have to adopt the mobility fee study and a fee increase via an LDC Amendment right so why are we adopting a Mobility you know I thought we were just adopting a Mobility plan tonight and that we were going to discuss and give you our feedback on you know what we're on the what the the fee or how it should be calculated or because something you said earlier to Mr dtin was the the money relation if there was no money relation then you wouldn't tell us what the in all these plans what nc5 was going to cost and what you know s sw2 is going to cost because we come up with this big amount and then we say this is how much money we need to raise over how many years 25 25 and then we just divide it and we say okay now here how do we generate that amount of money or we say you know we're going we're going to adopt this you know $20 million of the plan and we'll deal with the rest of the plan later you know so it's not part of the adopted Mobility plan we could do that also right we could go in and pick and choose and say we're going to set our cap at $50 million and then we look at what you estimate on today's dollars what each of those projects cost all the projects that you have in this draft plan and say here's our cut line we're going to try to fund all those we're going to you know either go get grants or we're not going to do those over the next 25 years and so I I'm and that's the priority One list correct right and so I'm just trying to figure out what it is is you want us to do tonight do you want us to massage Priority One list and say this is this is our Mobility plan which carries us through the next 25 years and then we you come back in a meeting or two and say Here's where's here's that amount of money and here's where you need to raise your fees to generate that amount of money what am I missing I guess is what well tonight tonight's request is only to adopt the Mobility plan which is an action that does not require any further action to do anything else um we we based on the priorities and that prioritization slide that I showed we we as staff and I'm extension of your staff here are recommending these Priority One projects this Council or any future Council can sit down and have a workshop about what how it wants to prioritize its money what projects it wants to fund for or preliminary planning or design and we'll have total control over how the plan gets implemented As Time Marches On And as fees get collected to do projects it's going to be a slow process to collect impact fees to do Transportation projects as you know so there's not a particular urgency to figure out what project one is going to be right now um but we do think that there's an urgency to get the fees set appropriately so that you can start collecting enough to make a difference and start investing in roads again because it's kind of been stalled out so the you know the the what the ask tonight is to adopt the plan if there are modifications there too I would ask that it get adopted with those modifications done and we'll make them and that'll be that we'll come back with a fee structure where you'll see what the fees are and um they are based on a particular set of projects that you want to fund we last time I was here we decided that it felt about right just to try to fund the first phase of projects minus the deck so that's what we're going to go do mathematically go do that and that establishes this feed level that we're trying to set that feels right um for everybody so um tonight is just that first step and the fees will come back in November to that's our schedule is to have that for you yeah all right but I I did want to I did want to seed some discussion about the fees themselves and get some feedback from you all about what uses are on there how you want to prioritize your your policy perspective on this and what some of your concerns were so that as we go do that fee schedule will be as close as possible to something that you want to see coming at you wouldn't I come back to you all right so with that if we can I'd like to almost separate the two so we don't muddy up a a long motion is there anything from the map of the projects that we'd like to amend delete anything from the total project to your 1A let's get the project settled so we we got got the we got the mobility U for the multi-use is there any other project that we're feeling weary of and then I think we go back and we start blasting you with I'd like to see us go this Direction with the fees or this direction like as Council Meson had started just so we don't have a long chaotic motion we're I'm not asking for any motion I'm just talking to them looking at you yeah yeah and any any feedback we're getting that I'm I'm you taking this guidance and preparing the Stu stud all right so with that Council woman do you have anything else on that no I was just going to clarify that we're just trying to make sure that we're giving you the Mobility plan with the roads and the paths and everything in the right perspective which adding on the change with with Mr Bagby brought in that's all that's key tonight because then we can come back when you bring us what your proposal fees are and say we don't want our single family homes to have this added in there if they're going to increase their footprint by adding on another room we don't want them to be feed you know the amount of 400 or whatever that percentage is that can be done when you come back in November am I right yes okay that's all I want to clarify thank you and then I guess with that my only point and you know it'll be up to you guys if you want to go with it um as far as the NC's the new construction roads I have not found a single person in favor of one or two I know that could be a little bit of a nimi cave you know not my backyard kind of situation but just throwing it on the record I don't know a single person who was in favor of that I understand that it connects and allows more ways to get around but to the point of trying to keep the character of neighborhoods those neighborhoods seem to like to not have cut through roads and I'm just going to throw that out there because at least for one I'm in I'm kind of in that nc2 area we all use Snapper I don't think there's no need for two Snapper South going out and we use that sail fish as like a roundabout I see a lot of people biking whether it's kids or elderly using it as almost like a little inner track so throwing it out there for the the public on that um I don't know if we need to pull it out or not because again this could be in 2050 maybe there is a use and we can always scream like hell when uh they won't we want to or the next Council wants to move forward but again keeping more in there than less might be a better idea so we have variety and flexibility later on because if we we take it out we can't use the impact fees correct if we were to take something out of this plan we wouldn't be able to use any transportation fees to fund a project that's not on this list is that correct you could I would recommend adding it back in or amending the list yes when you do such a thing I was just throwing that out there as my my my point on the the the project list itself as I'd be in favor of nexting one and two but um with that councilman Dustin I I'd just make one other comment that my problem with this process is that we're going to adopt a plan without knowing what our fees are that's kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse and to try to make it even simpler that would be like me setting my menu prices at my restaurant without knowing what my cost of food is and I might think shrimp should be $100 a plate I don't know what it costs won't sell many shrimp baskets that so I just philosophically have a problem setting the projects before I know what the fees are going to be to find those projects don't we have estimates am I don't we have estimates in the projects or is those just like very soft numbers we do have estimates yeah we have estimates mayor but I'm not sure you got a good point I just trying to F this they're not realistic in my opinion 400% increase and we at the moment have it applied to single family homes and we have it applied to other things you know I don't know yeah I don't know if we're going to pass something like that I mean I I I love where you're were going as far as subsid or encouraging the things we want to see and allowing the things that you know as a free market we can let them foot the bill because in my opinion this is overdue I mean we're almost subsidizing development or subsidizing uh the quality of life at the benefit of developers yeah at the expense of residents if we don't get this going and if and if we don't twerk it yeah I love where you're going it's not it applies to everybody and we're not sub we're not encouraging single family while we are not discouraging the others that are going to you know really screw up our our transportation even more so this has in my opinion a lot more work to go to Just adopt a plan with some projects on it without um customizing it to do what we want to do is premature in my opinion okay counc Schmidt thank you sir uh planning I think we've heard many times how bad of a planning uh our our planning here in the city has led us to where we are today uh many councils in over the past may maybe didn't plan as well or I don't understand but um we're not tying ourselves into any projects tonight and I I think the the change that you're going to be bringing to separate the single family and some of those things that have already been talked about we have a large scale plan over the next 25 years of just possible ideas possible ideas that we're trying to plan for not the dollar amounts not the projects I mean Jesus we can't even finalize a budget sometimes in one year so I I we're not going to be able to prioritize the next 25 years tonight or the next meeting or the next 10 meetings so this is not tying us to increasing a fee by a certain amount tonight I think we've already stated that so this plan that's these changes let's let's do it let's let's let's start getting there so we can you know we've been talking about the fee increases impact fee increases BTR fees we just talk and talk and talk let's take the next step let's do this tonight so we can get to the next step and then we can all debate about the fees when you bring it back to us in November that's my plan so thank you very much all right so with that motivational speech I see no other further discussions I'm going to make an amendment that we exempt single family homes in the Mobility plan uh so that they will not pay any more at the moment they will not pay any more in the teacher than they are at the moment so or we can exempt them all together that also clumps in I mean I think that's the November 4th discussion what about homesteading most single families would fall under that category would short-term rentals also fall under a single family they would but they are regulated under they're not actually regulated I'm sorry that's a bad word according to the state they are they have a separate fee structure and a separate set of rules so if that use is employed then your your fee comes to you at that point yeah Council mesed I'm I'm 100% on board with where you're going I was hoping that we could get the projects done and then continue the conversation on what do we want to see in November 4th as far as I want to see subsid here and I want to stick it to the commercial over here and and then you make it legally bound and just just to be clear in in a point of order the the Mobility plan does not recommend uses or fee levels or a fee table so it say projects is what you're were saying it's just projects so your motion would be appropriate as a separate motion as guidance or a policy decision to give us cor feed fee development guidance separate from the plan itself all right so I do have a motion from Council D let's change it to just a from amendment to a substitute motion I understand your point about it not adopting but as we are adopting preliminary fees and the entire Mobility plan itself is predicated on having fees that can fund it I'm not sure I agree with the opinion that you've expressed so I'm going to make a substitute motion that we adopt the uh Mobility plan with an OB section an exception for single family homes King and then BBY s single family homes or homesteaded single family homes is there is are we able to put that distinction in there at this point I'm not sure the distinction is necessary at this point I'm not sure the distinction is necessary yeah if we're if we're looking to try to promote just single family affordable homes not everybody can Homestead but do we that's what he's saying when he comes back in November that's where we break out we we take care of our family well I understand what he's saying I'm ready to do it tonight all right councilman Bagby well I'm ready to do it tonight but after we adopt the Mobility plan then I would like to have us because I I'll support that after we adopt the Mobility plan but the what people a lot of people have told me is no more damn apartments and I'm like so you know what I I'm willing to exemp single family residences and I'm willing to take the apartments up to whatever the highest level we can take you know and if you want to if you want to build some more Apartments God bless you Bill them but you're going to be paying foray going to fund a projects all right all right any further discussion the motion has been withdrawed so we're back to the original may I clarify something with the amendment yes sir the uh original motion was a recommended motion uh with modification and that modification is relative to your discussion about location of mu6 yeah we're just going to delete that's the only modific okay yeah because mu4 is mu4 oh no mu4 is south and north and south mu yes yeah South but that's M5 mu5 is Dolphin so we're just going to end mu6 at Dolphin so the East and West Corridor would be mu4 to Dolphin so 98 to Dolphin mu4 mu6 would be along okay okay so only one modification to that recommended motion mu yes yeah mu6 is all the way we're cutting in half sorry for everyone that's not looking at the map right now all right Ray is that what we got is that what you need all right so we're going to call the vote for the Mobility plan with one modification all right eyes have it 61 motion make a motion to exempt single family homes uh as a policy is that or just a direction because the policy will be November 4th I I think you you intend to not increase right the current fee not eliminate any fee exactly right that Mo first time I'll second that motion but I won't that's it right if our if our aim is to increase the others we lower these down and the others will have to increase yeah point of clarification yeah please our recommendation is to amend a motion to include single family homes not registered as short-term rentals so moved yeah all all right so we got an amendment to that motion um yes all right with that just quick question I can't press the button realistically can clear by by doing that how does that I mean do we have numbers on how that truly impacts us uh being more advantageous less advantageous we're not going to ever even get anywhere further than where we already are now that we're not increasing that um I wouldn't characterize that way I have reviewed the perits um and there are very few individual single family home permits so this is going to help your true Homestead or I'm going to rebuild my house or something like that there are a lot of permits for units but they were most of them were mult in a big multif family project yeah yeah and then we seemed like to have a decent we never vote on it because it was it was a workshop but at a decent consensus on the additional granny flats and everything so I think that's really where this would look 5 10 years out of what we're supporting is is additional dwelling on those homesteaded uh single family residents it will not impact your Revenue generation to the point where you'll look back and think why did why did we ever do that yeah just not going to do that so okay uh councilman Bagby yeah and just besides supporting this to answer Kevin's earlier question in the p in the last two times we went through kind of a process similar to this it was about rewarding people you know if you put 16 bikes parking spots out in front of your house we're going to approve it or whatever it wasn't about what was being built it was about what was being provided so that it became a multimodal community or it became a and this is more direct with when we get back to the feast structure we're going to reward you if you're building a seing go f not reward you but we're not going to penalize penalize you if you're building a single family residence but if you want to build Apartments you want to build more storage units or you want to build then then you can build them we're not saying you can't build them we're just saying the cost is going to be high to build the things that this year at least we don't think we need more of okay uh cos M I just have a question and this is purely just a question I don't know if it's even legal but times shortterm rentals yeah no it's not about short-term r this time believe it or not but um is there any chance like in the Mobility plan you can say for to the restaurants and and Supermarket facilities that if you do local only lines or local only seating or things like that you can do a reduction or is that not possible is that not even legal what kind of legal uh yeah what kind of yeah what I like that yeah can you as far as whether that's it or what is the philosophy of if we have a fee and we want to start reducing things or if there's abilities to start tacking things off is there like a parameter of what we can do like publ gives us two lanes for locals only and you say okay since you gave us two aisles two checkouts for local only we can reduce your fee by X percentage I I've not heard of a locals only policy in this kind of environment we would be the first um bre ground Breakers there has to a Nexus and and a rational basis for doing this I mean yeah you would struggle if you didn't have a rational Nexus for doing this but that's why we pay you the big bucks yeah I heard you never lose we knew you there's there's um there are trip reduction calculations that are that are possible um within this way of doing things they tend to be about pass by trips like if you build a McDonald's like someone's just going to be driving by and they're going to decide they want to mcfur or whatever it is they get there um that's not considered a trip so it gets taken off because they didn't create that trip they induced it because they saw McFlurries so you can do stuff like that but it's all based on the passby trip rationale and they maybe some other rationals we can use for reducing trips but that gets that gets you stepp off a very firm Legal Foundation into one that's a little more squishy if you will yeah the continue down that thought though for the fourth as far as this maybe a direction as far as incentivizing maybe better development so as a hurricane rating or as far as our insurance in our area um if just as like there's any information that we can bring or put to help uh reduce those fees if they are built stronger or better so that the ratings or any kind of that rationale um that's something I would like to see if that's even a feasible thing um as a potential hey here's the fees but here's a list of things that we could ask a developer to do that would enhance I guess your typical building code and bring it up a scale so that as a total we we have a stronger more res resilient community and perhaps is is there any benefit in our in our overall insurance as individuals and again that's not a question now but that's kind of where my rationality is going to be for the next month or two asking you guys is what can we do to help encourage better development so that we all have a lower interest rate because between the I think the insurance at least for me is what's draging my mortgage up in in addition to the inflation but I think the insurance to try to keep people in place so they can age in place and be here if they want to be here I'm just trying to think of ways that we can help as one Community reduce those insurance so that's just one my thoughts on things I would like to see in November 4th okay okay okay sorry for taking that while we got a motion on the table I know sorry I'm just locking you down you're my expert Alan okay we could we could talk about ways to address some of these concerns that are on more solid legal ground yeah exactly okay so as far as the motion on the floor um is there anything else to discuss is as far as what we have for the motion in second do we need to hear it no all right so I will call the vote councilman Dustin's motion to help single family all right I have it so moved unanimously before we move on is there anything else we would like to direct them to see in the fees in the fourth all right seeing none we will move right along right along we're going going through this quick oh never mind we're right back in it hey Ellen tell us about building fees actually if you don't mind um I'd like to invite n uh our building official up uh so Noel would like to talk about the the newly proposed uh building permit fees and uh then she'll probably invite Allan back to as her support go ahead no I thought he might need a break after that well we appreciate you uh good evening Council well B uh Bill and official um we are bringing you tonight um proposed about the um building permit fees and um I know we had mentioned about this during I think visioning session uh how the building fund is slowly declining and as of this current 2024 fiscal year where that be the first time we're going to be going into into the red and um have to be supplemented by the general fund so um I just wanted to bring you kind of on background um in um on November 20 on 7 2022 we brought um our first initial permit assessment study um where we had recommended a 20% fee increase that that fecy was kind of across the board include not just building but engineering and planning and everything everybody um that vote was amended um to um uh and approved for a 10% increase at that time so this go around we are just bringing back just the building divisions portion of the fees because that is the only fund that we get paid out of is for the building fees not engineering not planning those go to them guys they'll go to the general fund we only get supplemented by the building Fe the building permit fees so with that we have um um commission with 3tp Ventures alen to uh help us with this updated fee study um we did take a different avenue this time than we did last time where we actually um calculated our physical man hours and um overhead cost to perform the actions that we do which is the permit take you know the permit um Tech receiving the submitt going through everything making sure everything's correct and then pushing it out to plan reviewers who are reviewing those plans and then obviously following up with inspections in the field with inspectors and so we kind of took a look at what was the cost of Staff performing these tasks um but I'm I'm let Allan get into it a little deeper with you he's got a presentation to show you and I'll be I'll be here to ask question followup questions so I so yeah Noel Noel don't take Alan's presentation without just a quick quick summary if I might uh one of our goals with the we had two big goals in adjusting the the building permit fees number one was to make the building fund um cover its own expenses we need to cover the expenses of having a building official and having a permit tax and inspectors the the second goal was to simplify the list the list of fees was very long very complex depended on a lot of different variables so I I feel that the fee schedule that they're proposing tonight meets both of those goals uh and an additional benefit is if we go with this proposed schedule you you can debate the fees all you like maybe into the future but if you could at least approve the schedule that we're proposing which is dramatically simplified that will give us a big boost in helping to set up the new permitting uh technology the new online permitting system MGO and it'll help us get to that deadline uh better and faster so with that go ahead Alan and I'll let you uh talk in more depth thanks and before I want to start I want to mention that this um I'm always privileged to work with you all but uh this was a real collaboration Noel and Sue Shoemaker in particular really were Hands-On in this process and I wanted to acknowledge them and their work that they did uh to get us to this point because this is a this is um a little bit Technical and um but we've tried to give you a memorandum that shows you this process that Noel described we wanted to go into greater detail to get uh some assurances that these fees that we're putting together would raise an appropriate amount of Revenue and with the consolidation we had to create a model to do so so I'm going to tell you a little bit about that trying to advance and it's not working I don't know what is going um so why do we need this now we have a goal um it's sort of a stated goal but not official goal I think around here of having a self sustaining fund to the maximum extent feasible and avoiding having to put just General funds into the building fund to support the division um the fund balance forecasted to go negative by the end of um 20125 for sure and potentially at the end of this calendar year if changes are not made to the fee structure we did update those fees as Noel mentioned in 2022 with a a council determined 10% increase um at that time the forecast was very high for Revenue generation and the forecast has been adjusted down to some realistic history that we've had so um we came to you at that time with a 20% recommendation this one's higher um because the forecast and some of the an further analysis we've done have indicated need for a higher increase to cover ongoing costs um so we have a clearer picture of anticipated um demand um not just from doing the work but also um from coming off of the covid era which had a high level of permit activity during the sort of of it after everybody got over everything is closed um and got back to business there was a high level of permit of activity actually during the co era and now we're seeing that regulate down to something that's normal and I'll show you that in a minute um so we do have this imminent negative fund balance issue um coming up and um the cost of doing business continues to go up some as well uh for the for the division so the steps we took to formulate this recommendation including um assessing and comparing some historical and forecasted revenue of the costs of the division evaluating those cost of providing administrative and inspection activities where we looked at um a whole list of of permits and inspections and um calibrated the fee recommendations to those levels so these fees that you see in in this tonight were really based on um that assessment of cost of service cost to provide the services um and we did consolidate those fee categories we've created a revenue model for the fee update based on actual permit data from 2022 through mid 2024 so we had two and a half years of data that basically got normalized into one to create create a sort of an average year of production and we calibrated fee levels to produce Revenue estimated to cover the building division's operational cost based on that average year so um we uh and to one thing to note we included the current budgeted vehicle and Equipment cost in the fee structure for this year there is I believe $116,000 um allocated for buildings and vehicles that are above and beyond the normal cost of the building Division and those were spread out over 10 years Within These fee calculations to pay for them over time um so that the the future people coming in the door paying these fees will end up um paying down the cost of that equipment that's needed over time alen on that exact topic yes is there anything with the community development team um renting the space they have or the utilities that they use have we gone that far into the expenses of what Community Development is doing for expenses on the chart um we have General operating costs I would need to look at the list um we don't have any building improvements or repairs okay but um I think there is the fair share of utilities okay but I I don't think the rent any sort of rent or rental agreements is in the fee structure gotcha thank you so this slide shows um permit activity from fiscal year 01 going all the way back there to 2024 and you can see the um in the first part of the chart here the sort of uh whipped up housing market in advance of the great financial crisis that that happened um in subsequent years and the dip that happened after that in permit activity and you can see that in the the the toughest of times here in our postur great financial crisis doldrums that we were in we're less than half of the permit activity of even the average time so the this this activity within the building division can fluctuate significantly and so it's a little bit hard to have a fee that accounts for some of this because your revenue is so variable and your staff C costs are a little sticky when it comes to going up and down but we if you will notice the P last two bars on here are 2023 and forecast of 2024 and those appear to be somewhat normal um you know or average if you if you want to say that in terms of their level maybe even a little higher than normal um but 2023 is a good year to to assume as sort of a normative year and those were the years of our um our our Revenue model that we had so going through the the revenue um from fees you'll see the actuals from 20121 um less than a million dollars of Revenue um up until this budgeted year where we're forecasting over um a million just over a million U this year of revenue from fees and fines and other things and then the forecast is to have a little bit of a dip in 2025 and that revenue and basically recovering over the next 3 years um to get back to a level that near where we are now um but that's a um I think a good revenue forecast to go on is to be a little bit conservative and recognize that uh we're probably not going to hit the co era P Pace that we have in 2023 2024 um you'll see in here in this chart a change in fund balance um so each year at the end of the year you'll see how much the balance went down and this year's budget is relying on fund balance at the beginning of the year at 342,000 and so we're we're taking advantage of some money that's in the bank to cover this year's cost for the building Division and we'll go negative at the end of the year is what this is forecasting um by 2028 uh we're forecasting to be a full year plus in arear in terms of fund balance and needing to close the gap um if we do nothing and make no change so we did a full evaluation we evaluated 61 fee subcategories you don't have 61 fees but they're they're they're categorized a little differently in the database and they're broken down into residential and non-residential which we looked at um we we evaluated the cost to provide these Services compared to estimated revenue and when we looked at that only eight of those 61 had average revenue generation that covered the estimated cost to provide services so the vast majority 53 of those 61 had less Revenue than the estimated cost so we're charging less than it cost to provide the services basically for the vast majority of of what happened um and um that uh is detailed in the attachment um that's provided to the memorandum um you'll we have you have what shows those those findings in terms of the cost to provide versus how much were actually collecting and revenue at the city we then went on to calibrate the fees um where there's a um another attachment the last attachment has the fee structure in it it shows the existing and the proposed fees that are to be um that cover the cost of the of the division and the effective fee recommendation is approximately 48% higher than normal but those fee levels adjust U differently for different fee categories mainly based on the value to provide the services we were trying to only charge what it cost to provide the services as much as we could so as to be you know objectively charging people fees the one exception to that is the um reinspection fees which by State statue require you to charge four times the amount of the original fee as the second um you know uh reinspection fee and so you see those are pretty high there at the end of the list but those are mandated by state tatue that we do that in that way um so after doing the revenue model we went and forecasted um all of the new Fe St structure put that back into the revenue model to to guess uh guesstimate and estimate what we're going to produce over the next um five years under that regime and um I say the word guesstimate because there was a little bit of um uncertainty about consolidating and how that affected the revenue but we then went back and did some further um scenarios that helped us ensure that that was a good assumption so we feel good about the revenue model prod production and with the increases included in this memorandum and this recommendation you still have some years of negative fund balance at the end of the year but you're able to grow the fund balance to positive and have a reserve of over 200,000 by 2028 under this new regime which gives you a little bit of wiggle room to do things like make another equipment purchase or invest in buildings or what have you above and beyond the normal operational costs so uh the consolidation of fees are shown in the the table attachment um that's this the last thing in the memorandum we we made a determination to transition from unit or fixture based fees to fees based on contract values for several of the fees and that is particularly true of all the trades um we were charging by Circuit or by um sprinkler head and that sort of thing uh but we've transitioned those fees now to be based on the value of the contract which is a normalization that I think helps with some of the confusion about the fees but also about um fairness about how they get applied um and this will improve the uh the fee schedule and the ability to use it right now it's a little bit cumbersome and confusing and the consolidation will help with that both on the customer side but also the staff side and then administering it um so we'll have some streamlining that goes on making it easier to track and Report what's going on so our recommendation is to set the fees to ensure that they're adequate for resources for the next five years to build a a modest fund balance of greater than 10% of annual labor and operating cost which you have shown in the table that I was showed a minute ago and to um raise review permit inspection fees according to the proposed schedule that concludes my my presentation all right thank you again Alan um before I turn it over uh if we want to take the words of our awesome CFO if we can do an approval of schedules and then get into the fees if we have a lot of fe uh fee discussion but we'll see where it goes first councilman Bagby thank you mayor uh couple points I guess if you pull up your facts and assumptions slide which is the one is about the third or fourth one in the uh oops it's the one that says why is this decision needed now I agree with every one of those points except the anticipation of permit activity going down in the short run so the FED funds rate is going to drop two days from now okay people will be able to access depending on how much they drop it lower mortgages uh financing people who have been priced out of it we still have an insurance issue and I understand that I'm just what what drives your assumption that permit activity will go down in the short run if I could give you a long complicated answer but the the the short one is that the co era the years that we had forecasted from from um it included 2020 to 23 and 24 MH and half of 24 and those were sort of relatively High years much higher than average um of the of that chart I showed you with back to 2001 um I think eight of those years were below 2023 four were above and two were about the same in terms of actual permits that were issued and um so uh just that alone it's like can we keep up this pace that the really there was a CO deferral in permits and you saw a um sort of a heaping up of activity that occurred in 2122 in particular and to some extent 23 and 24 but we're working through like a covid backlog so those years in the model were higher and they were higher than any of the previous uh actuals in terms of Revenue generation um so those two things alone irrespective of any sort of macroeconomic forces that I could also yeah say the state would disagree with you there's uh probably what 1100 people moving to the State of Florida every day they're still moving here okay they're not slowing down and you know I'm sure the governor will tell you it's because we have the free state of Florida and other people will tell you it's because we have great weather and other people tell you it's because we have great schools depending on what where your Ox is is what you're promoting but I just totally disagree with that assumption particularly if Capital becomes more accessible for folks to buy we have some of the best schools in the state which are some of the best schools in the country people will move here for that we're picking up military missions over at hbert and egund so I mean I'm just trying to figure out micro macro what drives that assumption because that assumption drives a lot of your calculations on oh hey it's going to go down so the revenue for the permits is going to go down and I just I think you're you're wrong I mean I'll just be and I may be wrong and a year from now we'll know but uh the the forces that I see affecting the growth of this area and the growth of the State uh are not diminishing they are actually increasing and so which is why we have all these dang Apartments out here right now having said that um I agree philosophically that every everybody ought to carry their own weight so the building department you know they ought to charge whatever it costs them to do their service to provide their services I'm I'm about subsidizing Parks and Recreation you know the community center things like that access to the beach or access to the harbor but the building department dude you got to you got to pull your own weight uh so I in theory agree I'm just your underlying assumption is driving a lot of your calculations and I I disagree with that assumption so uh that's all say right now because I'm looking at some of the costs that you're you're showing here Mr BBY yeah that one assumption that you don't agree with the others you said you did if it is wrong the cost of issuing the permits are still going to be more than what we bring in because we don't charge enough right so if you're right if you're right we're still going to have a problem right no because it's dependent upon the permit the permanent eight of them pay their own way currently right that is that what your slide says eight of the processes are paying their own way yeah eight of the 61 eight of the 61 are paying their own way eight of the 61 yeah but if those are the eight at 90% but it's possible if you're right in the the numbers we're still going to be at a deficit because it it costs more than right I mean and I agree except we have to look and see what those eight are and how much more they're generating than is NE did you lower the cost of those eight process those eight inspections or permits the most the most impactful one is the admin fee and uh because everybody walks in the door and pay right there's an there's an there's there's an yeah the administrative because our online is not good right now that by far raises the most revenue and is the most impactful decision about what the fee is we tried to keep that right kind of near where the average was at 45 the rest of them are like not even in second place according to because there's so many of them now they get spread so um it's really hard to say like these are the five difference makers other than the admin fee they all not they're they're not all the same but there's they're they're very much lower so um tweaking the other numbers will only get you so far I think in terms of lowering the lowering the the raise or or messing with the revenue part of it yeah and and I like the way that you um you didn't do a 20% increase across the board you know so like in pools if it's a new commercial pool it's 100% increase basically you double the price it's a pool renovation residential or commercial uh it's a 200% increase and if it's a new residential pool it's a 264 per increase okay I'm going back to our previous discussion half hour ago you know I would raise it on the commercial more than I would on the residential but you know that going through through the um where you're raising it I might have some disagreement with those but I just I I get Kevin's point but it's where you're raising that money that counts and if you think you're going to have fewer permits then everybody's going to I'm not I don't want the building department to be a uh s Revenue stream you know I there are things that I believe ought to be Revenue stream short-term rentals other things but the building department should pay its own way not pay for the Christmas party and pay for all this other stuff so that that's what I want us to be careful about because I I just think that that one assumption skews some of this uh data that's all I want to say all right councilman Schmid yeah I'll just I'd like to make the motion that the city council approve the propose building permit fee structure and bring back the fee schedule at the November meeting with the mobility fee schedule second all right I have a motion in a second any further discussions all right seeing none call the vote okay all right I have it 61 and then I guess with that for the sake of giving them any marching orders or Clarity is there anything in the structure that we would like to talk about on the Das while we are all up here and able to talk about it all right seeing none I know well you know what with the approval of the fees coming now on the fourth I wanted to hear if there was anything up here that we would like to see on the 4th so we could get a passing vote and I don't see anything so we'll move on thank you Noel thank much just a quick check with everybody it's it's 8 o'clock um do you need a short break before we start the SRS presentation or shall we continue on looks like we're requesting a looks like someone needs a five minute uh break here so we'll call a 5 minute break e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right with the Quorum I'm going to call this city council meeting back to order all right Miss Crystal Strickland okay so as you uh can see if you look up on your um on the the monitors you're going to see our team from SRS and they're here to present the uh City Center Master Plan update and to look for Council guidance on how to move forward to uh move on to the completed and final report so uh go ahead Merill hi everyone good uh good evening um thank you for having us join you virtually we really appreciate it and we'd like to share with you all a update um of the t ma the Town Master Plan and where we are with things so that you kind of get an understanding of kind of all the collective information that we've gathered both from the the council itself from the community from your staff to make sure that we're headed in a in a good direction and get your feedback and input GI are you going to be able to share the screen okay so One update that we wanted to share because we've got received quite a bit of information more specifically to the harbor one site um the harbor one site um is obviously tied to the to the bridge um we know that there is some potential encroachment that may be coming so what we've done is a simple concept right now so that we can get a little bit of parking and some safe access way down to the water Frontage so we have a couple parking spaces up on the um east side if you will um and then has Ada accessible sidewalk that can come down and it's tiered as you go down and a small platform strictly for really small little engagements little ceremonies little things not necessarily like an Amphitheater um kind of at the base and adjacent to the big magnolia tree um we know that the red line is potentially where the Mary Bridge could end up going to so we're going to try to make most of our improvements north of that uh just to provide a nice amenity to the community obviously we need to readdress the boardwalk um and the seaw wall itself is not in great shape um we've got some picnic shelters there so folks can enjoy the sunset and some hammock uh kind of benches and then ultimately as that seaw wall gets replaced it'll come underneath the bridge itself and connect you over to the harbor District so that we uh propose a a nice little clean project that helps us uh engage that um site clean it up and make it a useful functional space to to uh relax and also uh get to enjoy the Destin sunsets next it was a slide that we've gathered that we'd overlaid some information on um related to our kind of goal of kind of unifying some of the pieces and elements that are strung throughout the Western end if you will as far as city-owned properties and parcels and how we can find ways to connect them um what you're seeing um we've also added the bus routes and some of the um suntrail uh components that are being added and the U multimodal ways to get around the site so our goal is to try to find ways that we can try to unify these sites so that this truly becomes a hub if you will for um activities along the harbor which is the core of your his you know original um Destin and the harbor site so we want to make sure sure that we find ways to bring those uh together and unify them when we look at um the site at uh what we call the Gateway which is that Western end which is where the community center is today um we looked at a couple different options as far as uh doing so and one of them would be to consider to bring City Hall to that site and GA if you don't mind let's go to the next one because I think it helps explain this backstory a little bit better so that everybody's on the same page so when we looked at the Morgan Sports site obviously we need to keep um the programs running at the community center um simultaneously as something gets built we we lot heard a lot of feedback about the community center um needs and trying to find a ways to make it more convenient more accessible um and obviously and improved facility um that can serve you know the family that has multiple children of multiple ages participating in indoor and outdoor recreational amenities so in both of these options A and B we're showing the community center coming to the Morgan Sports site the Morgan Sports site um position that we're showing it in is basically pretty much where City Hall is today um what we do is replace that find some temporary uh locations for City Hall um while we build this and this way we can keep the programs going on over at the community center where it is today build this and then transition over to this site we're looking at this site as an opportunity to try to fix a few things that are related to it the community center we want to put on the city owned Parcels of land and do some development work that are also part of that so that outside that Community Center perhaps there could be an outdoor Fitness area it's butterfly Gardens some trails and kind of a softer uh landscaped approach to the site where the um disc golf is today we would consider introducing a skate park and bringing more amenities to the Morgan SP site um we'd add some outdoor courts that you don't necessarily have today it's heavy on the fields not on the courts um there's a new playground that's coming that's in purple on on the SES we're going to improve the parking and create connectivity because now 's a little bit of a disconnect where the parking is around the city hall and the parking is around the fields but there is not not that thoroughfare of connectivity between them um we'd introduce potentially an area that folks could hook up for food trucks that could roll in along um the Morgan site um and then we'd really want to focus our attention on Crossing um Commons so that you can safely be there and by providing pedestrian uh crosswalks um we would make it a much safer experience by uh bringing uh folks safely from side to side and really um gesturing to um slowing down traffic and that there's people trying to cross because we know that when there is uh baseball uh going on in the softball tournaments that traffic does overflow and they need places to go in both of these schemes option A and option b they're very similar the difference is is that we took a look at um placing City Hall potentially at the Morgan Sports site um or where the city hall Annex is today build it where the dog park is um have a plaza and parking that will serve City Hall and the pickle ball courts and also create that overflow for when you have those weekends that are really busing at the seams as far as parking um we also have a connector road that will connect our new parking lot at City Hall over to um the public works and again creating this Trailway thank you Jana of systems that are um connecting the pieces of the puzzle together so there is a much more improved flow um from one side to the other option A would be to Move It All To One location and kind of create that Hub of um City presence in one area there's a uh Beauty to that and the fact that you not only got programmatically the bulk of the heavily programmed parks and recck programs all together on one site Mom Dad Grandma can bring the kids over that need dropped off to take karate inside and baseball outside and kind of have that thought Common Thread we've introduced some amenities that Mom Dad or Grandma can do on their own also as far as walking the dog um an outdoor Fitness area and try to create that multi-generational approach um to the activities option b is saying City Hall would not come to this site and we'd try to find another home for that so that would be the only difference and what we would do is um instead of a where we actually didn't do the butterfly garden and trails below the fitness area the small dogs and large dogs that are currently on the annex site would transition to here if City Hall does not come to the site then we'd leave the dogs um over on and on the lot on the annex site and then bring in a little bit more of a landscaped environment with the butterfly gardens and trails so now go back you know to the Gateway site the Gateway site um what we started to look at is all right so if City Hall was not at Morgan Sports and we brought it to where the community center is today we do have either way the opportunity to really take advantage of the Topography of the site um and create a um parking structure on the low side that would actually kind of bring up the elevation to where we are on the high side which is where the community center's parking lot is today um thus helping to address some of the parking um commentary as far as folks coming to the harbor area for events folks coming to Maguire's and overflow that there would be and if there is an event at City Hall we could have more parking there and it gives us some flexibility um we're proposing to place City Hall on the high side where the community center is today leave the police department where it is today and leave the Destin and this is an option b leave the Destin history uh and fishing Museum where it is today on option b if option is that City Hall goes over to Morgan Sports option A looks at what we could be done with that site what's interesting is that you know the harbor is the core of where the history of Destin is um and that there already is has established certain um building structures that are tied to the history of Destin and we felt it might be interesting to take a look at the creating uh on the site of where the community center is what we call the founder fishing Village which would be kind of connecting the dots between um the history museum that is there and the original post office building the police station which was the original fire station we already have some historic references to to old Destin and how things used to be on the site and could we really find a and create a venue that was a series of buildings and structures that could potentially house um the fishing Museum on its site but also be an event space um that so when you have the rodeo when you have an Arts and Crafts Festival the parking can be used the activities could spill over onto this site and we create a fun and engaging environment that all the community can enjoy um and so that is very much more of an event based kind of space when it's not really kind of pulling at the heartstrings of that historic elements of Des and and trying to hearken it back so it would be a smaller scale really uh engaging and friendly place to be um kind of bring some of the elements of the Historic Museum over to this side of the street and really be a fun and and engaging place for the community to gather um and then to learn and bring you back to the core of where uh Destin Grew From and that was some of the historic imagery that we pulled um the third site that we took a look at was the public site um it's a little bit of a different scenario there um Publix has um obviously a field of parking in front of it um and they would prefer preferentially they'd prefer to keep as much of that there so our site sorry would technically be pushed over to the West site where we could engage also there's uh you know a tie to a developer that would like to uh bring some residential to there and try to create a town center concept on the site the challenge um that we're looking at is that City Hall wants to be about 30,000 square ft um we're showing a footprint that kind of uh represents that although that parts of those volumes would need to be a twostory but on the site for City Hall to come here and not overlap onto the public s's parking we would need to create parking structures both for City Hall and parking structures for a residential component um there's many and then introduce a part because we heard that over and over in the surveys that we collected from everyone and the live data that they really want to make sure that whatever we provide has um the right amenities that kind of bring more green space more open space more places to rest and relax um the other element that the publ has identified is that they do not want us to bring more retail to this area which is kind of uh a little bit in um direct uh conflict with yeah contrast to where you want to be related to that whole town center concept with live work Play Shop do all those things together so we're ending up creating some of the elements by nature of this site but and then having kind of the Publix which would be the retail which isn't going to bring that um Vibe of uh engagement and really kind of having you live and work there so we've looked at that um as a as an option but the more that we at least from a planning standpoint look at it find that there's some challenges to doing so Mo you know there's an expense to the parking structures um obviously the developer wants to try to get uh development as much as he can on his site um and we're feeling like it's not a right fit um at least in our from our perspective um the access to the site is primarily um off of Harbor and coming in that um median entry point so you're going to see first no matter which way you come and even with coming on Main um and it feels not a we're not having the ability to really create that Dynamic that we would want in a town center concept at this site J I think that's all the slides we have right yeah the the only the only thing that I would add regarding the public site is um you know keep in in mind that the that the the developer has communicated to us that they're not interested in doing townhouse type of units they want apartments and right now at 30,000 square fet for a city hall we're looking at a parking count of roughly 240 parking spaces so at roughly $37,500 a parking space you're probably looking at a $9 million expense only to build the parking garage for the city hall and the only purpose that that is serving in terms of the developer is that that is satisfying their 20% of um their requirement to bring non-residential uses um but in the light of their of having a Line in the Sand where they don't want us to touch any parking for Publix in terms of utilization or design and they don't want us to bring any retail then the question becomes um is it really worth spending the $9 million on the parking garage Alone um plus the expenses of building out the city hall um whereas that money could be could probably be better invested in one of the other scenarios where um you get a much more campus-like feel a much more Civic type feel where you have complimentary uses and efficiencies of City functions all in one location just wanted to put that out there so we'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have okay well thank you so much for the presentation it might be a little late but I just got pretty pumped up just looking at some of these slides other than that last one start knocking on some lobbyist doors for publ then I guess um all right Council any any direction what what do we need what do you need from us where can we go with our long winded sentences from all of us up here that could benefit you guys as we move forward with this project what are you guys looking for from us just a direction of what we're liking not liking yeah so that's exactly what we're looking for because at this point we've been doing these kind of iterative process of refinement just really refine it further and start to represent it a little bit more graphically a little bit more visually so you're going to get a sense of the the aesthetic the vibe the feel as far as the direction so that you all have a great plan that you can start to implement and ex and execute all right all right coun Bagby yeah so just from my perspective the The public's option is is dead in my mind I I can't support putting anything there uh a I'm not going to pay that much to build a parking garage when the three places we need to build a parking garage we identified 20 years ago and it was not at the Public's parking area and they would make us do that because the Public's down in South Walton at uh Grand Boulevard they have guards out there when they have a vents on the big open space like the South Walton Food and Wine Festival they have guards guarding their parking spaces so that their customers can get in to shop at Publix as opposed to find a place to park to go to the event uh I was not originally in favor of the city hall being over here but I actually I think I am I have the group that I went to with uh no I was in you know when they had when yall had all the slides up I was talking to everybody and I was like they convinced me that all ought to be here you can do something like y'all do I guess in option uh option A of the Gateway of the Gateway you can do something there and you can have it part of the festive Marketplace or whatever you want to call it but they in their minds the center of the you know City Hall the community center all that would be better suited here there's more space there's uh and so after talking to them I was like well you know you might be right because I've always leaned toward uh the community center area there's just not the space up there to do what we need to do unless we put it on top of a parking garage no I mean there's just not the space to do that or you build flyovers over stallman or whatever where you have uh you can access the the fishing Museum so that might be the culture center of the city but the legislative center of the city in my mind probably be out in this area where we have the space uh that we already own that we can build but I'm just that's just my thoughts all right counc mment yeah I'll just uh add my two senses that I would love to have you continue this next step to go with the option A over here at Morgan Sports Complex on your slide and also go with uh an an an iteration of option A at the Gateway site um as well that's what I would love to see at the the next phase yeah uh one more thing I need a better understanding of what that Village looks like up at the community center because my idea of what it looks like is probably radically different than yours or anybody else's up here so I kind of need to know what option A at the Gateway looks like you know rendering or something like that and and that's our intention yeah that'll be part of our next step yeah okay uh Council mtin thank you mayor um I tend to agree that City Hall needs to stay out here and uh after the presentation I came to the conclusion that in order to enhance our recreational activities we need to have additional we need to have additional Community Center structure whatever something would complement what we have over on the old part of town out here I don't think we've accomplished much by moving one out here and closing it down as as I drove to my presentation with this group the other day I saw three kids going down the sidewalk bouncing their basketballs headed for the community center I don't think they can bounce their basketballs out from there to out here so we don't need to get rid of that we need to add out here a new facility that can add to the the uh capacity and the ability and give us more recreational capacities not not replace one with the other so you know I would I would be in favor of trying to put our additional Community Center or another facility out here and uh leave the old one there and and uh continue to use it now the only problem I have with all of this is a very good rough estimate of what this might cost would be $50 to100 million now we're about to borrow 25 million I don't know if we can borrow another 50 to 100 so these plans are all very nice and and they may come to fruition a very long time from now unless we do the little things such as building a community center or recreational center out here leave City Hall out here and do what we can do on the other end of the town I like Jim I like the concept of doing something with the harbor one we need to see some more details and uh and see what we can do over there with the properties that we own and there are a couple others that we could acquire but uh City Hall has to stay out here we want to build additional Community recreational facilities and uh keep the ones we have and make sure they continue to function all right I think anyone can argue with that councilwoman abar thank you mayor I just want to uh say pretty much what both Kevin and Jim and Dewey said I agree with the uh City Hall for the city center make it here makes better sense and uh leave the community center as it you know where it is and again I also would like to see a little bit more of what the um one Harbor will look like when they're done um adding things or what what the big picture of that would look like and I agree doing it might be 10 20 years from now but it uh it certainly is a beautiful plan and uh appreciate all the work you guys have been doing so thank you right Stevens yep thank you um I agree with everyone else uh Harbor one I think it's the uh the beginning steps of what we probably want and then I also agree with the Gateway site uh being option one and uh Morgan sports complex being option option A I'm sorry and option A for Morgan Sports Complex too right anything else all right CM M gal Crystal how much have we paid for this so far the SRS contract in total is uh has a not to exceed amount of $155,000 155,000 thank you counc Bagby yeah the the other thing and I I assume y'all heard this but maybe you didn't that uh Gateway site uh that's where we celebrate Christmas you know our Christmas tree lighting every year is up there that's where we celebrate uh voting okay some of our community service or whatever and and some of those functions personally I would like to see or have the ability for those to stay there uh so that the Western end of the town in the Northwest end of the town you know what some people refer to as old Destin have that ability to celebrate even though I know you know kyen I don't know how many more Christmases he has but he'll talk to us about the kids in the post office and everybody getting the presents and everything and I love that story uh and Santa Claus and Mrs Claus being there that that is a part of our community and I wouldn't want to see it moved out here because it's it wouldn't be the same out here it wouldn't have the same meaning or the same purpose so when you're ruminating on designs and uses and all these other things out there at the community center I I would kind of tend toward what Mr Dustin was saying is keep something there where kids can bounce their basketballs to and play uh maybe even a pickle ball court who knows all right any further discussions councilman King nothing else all right thank you all right anything else that you need from us nope we'll go on to the next steps and we will um provide you some more uh tangible imagery so that you can see kind of get the feel the vibe the Aesthetics of um each each location um and then also we will start to tag on some of the logistical conversations and then also some uh budgeting numbers with obviously not knowing exactly when the timing will be so we'll have to build in some cushioning to allow for um you know cost escalation that may occur but it gives you a great road map to start to implement certain pieces and parts of it you know that are the lower hanging fruit earlier and then um as you guys can strategize about how you accomplish the bigger pieces in the puzzles but have all the in information in front of you to do so perfect and councilman Schmidt you said you had something else I I I'm just I'm I'm very big on trying not to waste people's time um and so for the sake of what might happen the next time you guys come based on what you just heard tonight are we going to see a shé with with or without a community center on the west side of Dustin you're going to see a solution that doesn't show the community center on the West Side any longer gotcha okay you're helping us kind of Define it and kind of reain in the scope so that what we're starting to say this is you know the direction we prefer to head sounds good and I do agree Mr bagby's sentiments about the the the memories over there and uh I spent a lot of uh those nights with Mr B with Mr Kiren and uh Jacob ladder I think sings Every SE every Christmas and uh I will say though that we do that in the parking lot under the not Christmas tree but we could still do that with whatever they create over there because it's on the West Side Oldtown dtin so I love that keeping those memories for sure all right think that yeah that's really our goal is to keep that history alive over on that side in a way that is still a uh communal experience for the community to bring them together for the rodeos for the festivals for the events for the Christmas tree for all those types of events create a place that not only does that for the community but also celebrates the history of of D and shares the message with the folks that come to visit all right councilman D just a question after listening to the comments from the council how how do we come to the conclusion that a community center is not going to be located on the west side of dtin because my interpretation of what we heard tonight probably would not support that I got a 4 two 42 in in what Manner uh AA option A on both we also modified saying that we thought another one should be out here yeah well it'll it'll eventually come to a real vote and we'll see how it goes right now I have a GU OB staining I I didn't get his options but I was taking notes on who's got one well I'll let you know my option cancel the contract save the money and use it somewhere we can actually utilize it I got I got that note correct I said hates how much we're spending any anything else for the good of the order on this topic all right we will have that grenade show later then all right up next thank you so much thank you jonno and Merill and good night um good night okay uh Council uh the next item on the agenda is a schedule of all fee reviews and enhancements uh so this is in your packet so you can look at the the fees that we're looking at currently and the dates that we plan to bring them back for Council reviews um and if there are no questions on this um for the sake of time I'd like to uh keep on moving forward yep I need to I don't see anything yep all right the next item uh 4E is the 222 cert Avenue discussion and I'm going to allow our city council to take the lead on this item Al righty does anyone have jumping off oh do youor I think she meant City attorney I was like I was like I was like all right I'm gonna juggle this one uh okay so uh this one was requested um by a council member who wanted to see it on the agenda and discuss options which was council member Schmidt so um we put together some options as most of you know this property has had a history of code violation including accumulation of trash and debris on the property and public nuisance um and depreciation of property values injurious to Public Health and deemed inconsistent with um a residential neighborhood overall so back in 2019 it went through the code enforcement process a code enforcement lean was recorded against the property it's been acre at $50 a day ever since it's approaching $100,000 I think it's around 95,000 um Crystal would be able to get us an exact number but it's in that ballpark and so at this point um we have some options for Council to consider the first option is kind of what we do generally which is we don't take any extremely proactive approach once the lean is already in place we wait until the property changes hands and then it usually gets paid off when there's a title search or when someone comes in with a lean reduction request however if we wanted to be more aggressive than that we could um potentially look at uh for closing rail property for the lean this particular property is Homestead so we cannot foreclose it but adjacent to it uh owned by the same property owner is a vacant piece of real property that we could foreclose on as it is not homesteaded and when you file a code enforcement lean under state law it attaches to all of your property in the county so that's another option yet yet another option and you'll see this um um broadly on Monday night at our LDC rewrite Workshop is to um pass a nuisance abatement ordinance um in that article one you will see some authorizing language to do that um it doesn't go through a whole detailed process but it does provide a broad authorization for it and um finally another option you have is to seek injunctive relief in court that's probably the most expensive option because it would likely result in a trial um but I've laid out kind of some of the thoughts and if you have questions about one or more of them happy to discuss it all right councilwoman abar up first so have we reached out to any family that are attached to this one individual that lives there that we understand is you know part of the history of Destin kind of family lost his job that kind of lives off of the property stuff that accumul don't know if um Steve can speak for Troy I don't know why Troy's not here but Steve do you have this information on past conversations okay I am aware that Code Compliance had conversations I do not know the details of those right now so if we have to have that conversation at another meeting that's fine but I don't know but the other option that we could go ahead and foreclose on the adjacent property that is not homesteaded would that then maybe force the issue a little bit more because as of right now it seems like he doesn't care that there's an accumulation every day on this property because he doesn't plan to sell it he just plans to live there till he passes I can't speak for what he's thinking but certainly if we were to start foreclosure of proceedings he would have to start thinking about it I I can say captain fulgums here and I do know that there was a time that the Sheriff's Office actually went down there and had some conversations with him so maybe in the absence of Troy I don't know if you had any input we didn't speak to any other family members what we did was went down there and gave him a warning that if any of the debris that he's got at the house um left his property onto the city right away that we could issue him a citation for littering um which escalates um based on the pounds that of litter that you have there from anywhere from a fine to an actual misdemeanor uh he cleaned up he moved it back off the right away um and it's sometimes it'll it'll spill back over on the right away we have not issued him a citation yet but we'll be more than willing to do that if we go down there and find it on the right away well to continue my question is if you drive by there I drove by there before the meeting this evening all of his Vehicles he's got two trucks now that are loaded they kind of remind you of like when the Grinch was loaded up with all the stolen stuff I don't know how he drives it but and it's also got more debris on the driver's side facing the street so it's like is is that not all right away on this side of the fence that he put up there's a portion of the property i' I'd have to go down there and look at it to say what was right away and and not uh it's very possible that there's a portion of the RightWay or that there's a portion between the rideway and his fence he wouldn't have his fence built right up against City rideway uh normally the easiest way you can look is if there's telephone poles there or utilities there they'll be on the RightWay just to the property side of that will be the private property okay thank you all right Council M mine's going to be another question um so I'm looking at the property and the property adjacent and I don't see how you'd get an easement to the back of that property through his property if you did try to sell it is there is there an option where we could say us invest $15,000 clear the back lot fence it have him move all his crap to the back where it's out of sight and then we recoup that whenever we foreclose on that property in the future I mean obviously it's his private property so we can't just do that however we could have those conversations with him and try to get that kind of a voluntary deal worked out and ask him I mean I have no idea what he plans to do with that property back there if anything and how he would feel about that having never had a conversation about that with him I'm just thinking options just something that would allowed us to get the unsightly stuff out of sight still be able to look at as an investment because we know at one point we're going to recoup all those funds so if Council wanted us to discuss something like that with um the property owner you know we'd be happy to like would anybody else agree to that if I made the motion I'll make the motion okay reach out to him see if he'll do it okay do you have a second I'll second all right uh further discussion on that I got councilman Schmidt do you want to speak on to this or vote and go come back to this I mean I mean if you like we have a lot of options on the table right now so okay all right anyone else want to speak to the motion all right see none got B yeah so I just want to make sure I understand the motion we're going to spend what not to exceed $155,000 to go in and clean up this guy's yard my understanding was correct me if I'm wrong council member guile but it was to spend 15,000 to clear the vacant property so that he would and then assist him with moving his belongings to that property to the back where it's out of sight correct okay not cleaning up his no not cleaning up the mess clearing the vacant that we would have no easement to or access even if we foreclosed on it or I don't see a viable easement okay based off the okoa County property appraiser website okay well I'm I'm looking at at the map how do I do this and I see there there's a house whoops right behind that right at 293 stalman Avenue and there's a house beside that at 220 cybert Avenue you know and so there are people that would even if we cleaned off that lot that would still be would see all that junk I mean you wouldn't see it going down cyber I I'll I'll grant you that I I'm just I did say privacy fence as well I think in the original discuss okay he it's not just seeing it too I mean he's out there every time I drive by there at night he's out there with an angle grinder cutting the stuff up to fit it in the back of that truck yeah so I mean it's and it's loud yeah I I'm more of I mean I I'll let you call the motion but I'm more of the opinion that we do the nuisance and yeah you know just save our money go go collect the stuff up you know give him time give him his warning if we have to go collect it up since we're going to be helping him move it anyway we might as well move it off and charge him whatever it calls a Hauling Company to haul it off whenever he sells the land and then you know he cuz I don't think he would want us to haul it off but if we help him move it to the back he probably would he'll bring it all back out yeah he'll bring it all back out to the front and start grinding again so yeah yeah it's our land whenever we foreclosed on it that was part the motion counil confused all right councilman Dustin yeah I don't know what we're going to accomplish by moving it to the back of the lot then we're making a nuisance for the folks that are back there and as Johnny's observed he's working on it every night out there I see no reason why he would stop working in the most convenient place that is to work which is right in front of his house um that doesn't seem like a solution to me counil Stevens do you have anything on this or you want to wait the mo I was say I mean with current motion I almost feel like maybe we should just direct a Subs motion to direct the city manager to talk to him and see if he could remedy all the stuff in front uh within 7 Days otherwise then we proceed and do try to go after that property behind the house all right official sub all right do I have a second on cman Stevens for clarity when you say go after it you mean to foreclose corre foreclose sorry thanks okay I have a substitute motion okay does the substitute include us building the privacy fence and moving all the stuff in the front yard to the backyard after we foreclose so we're going to foreclose on that we're going to leave all the stuff in the front yard saying we we give them seven days to clean up have the city manager have some conversations and if that doesn't happen start preparing the Foreclosure complaint for filing of course I could come back to council uh after the city manager discussions with an update first if you want but if you put it in the motion now at least the property owner will know which direction you're headed yeah okay I don't understand because the problem is all the stuff in the front yard and him working on the stuff in the front yard right if we foreclose on the back that that's so what he's already got a lean again you know not a lean but we we've already got the uh judgment against him for $50 a day for how many ever days we've been unless he comes into compliance under the threat of the Foreclosure which is hopefully what would occur for the threat of losing property property as well crappy property your point if it doesn't bother him to lose the property nothing will change yeah all right yeah just a couple quick comments if you don't mind uh if we foreclose on the lean and are successful we are we are then what by law uh required to get access to that parcel yeah we would have we would have to get access to the parcel so so while Mr G like you were pointing out thank you for um like we would we would find access we by law we would get access we would be entitled to have access to the property any property owner would be entitled to have access and then uh I mean I like where we're going with Mr what Mr Stevens is saying uh but I would also uh whether it's consensus or if you needed a motion because I don't think we can direct the sheriff's department to do anything but uh it's in the rideway so I would say to at the same time have the sheriff's department drive by and do their citation if it's in the right way and do that tonight or tomorrow because we have a contract with the sheriff's department and knock that out while we're at it one more thing I didn't mean to interrupt you but Waste Management could also go into the right of way and clear it similar uh to what we've done on other properties with junk and then we would build them again though coming to get the collection of it we're going to probably end up with another lean on the property that's why it's a little bit circular my my whole point about even bringing this up was I know Mr D and miss a bear has spoken recent times about abatement ordinances and trash and long-standing properties and whatever and so uh I think we need to try to take every effort because we've gone after people for much less um than this and I hear a lot of complaints from Neighbors and the surrounding people about it so uh again I would take the sheriff's department take their step because that's no charge to us and and then do the next steps that we're already proposing Mr Stevens's motion and and can I add to that also Kevin the reason why I wanted to make sure this was public and this was you know at a meeting is we we need to know the family that is going to ultimately whenever this guy leaves and heads to heaven or wherever somebody's going to come in here and say hey we didn't know it was $80,000 and are curing $50 a day we want a waiver we want the family to care to get involved because this has gone on for years and the family has seen this go on for years and um it's sad they don't care the effect that it has had on every neighbor on that street across the street and Builders and anyone new into the area Drives By that it's sad sad you're under the impression that this guy cares what his family thinks and that's not what that's not the case I'm looking at the the family not don't come in here in a couple years say hey we we want this waved that's I want it clear that they if they don't do something don't come in here in a couple years whenever your foreclosure kicks in and we got we own your property that you want to wave the fees because it's not fair it's not fair that we've had to deal with this for years now cman Dustin then G I'm just going to point out we're trying to get him to clean it up I don't know if seven days is was enough time to do it seven months yeah the uh you know he he needs to agree to clean it up and seven days might be too short a time period but we have the ability I guess once if he actually starts working on it we could up baate that out a little bit yeah it's something if we believe someone's working in good faith towards compliance we have frequently worked with them and if additional time is warranted we have done that and the other point I would make is that uh if the if the leans we have against the property are worth several times more than the property is they not going to have a lot of people buying unless we lower it so we'll see how that goes all right Council MC G to a point that was made earlier yes legally we get an easement but you don't make money off that property till you sell it right when we own it we don't can you imagine imagine the ement coming through that front yard and you trying to sell the property when you've got the metal you put a blindfold on them and then you reveal the house or that makes it a better purchase price for us it's just it's not something if if I was taking my wife or kid down I'd be like yeah this is exactly where I want to live let's look at this metal garden every day we finally have a starter home in Destin or we could sell it to the guy on the other side and they have a biger backyard though so it becomes valuable for that side so there's there's options on the table never know to that point while we were kidding the value of that property would also be in our favor because of the circumstance so it would be the property would if we went the for closure route the property would ultimately be sold at a public auction and we or anybody else could purchase the property it could be sold at a deficit or a surplus you know and if it was sold at less than the lean amount we could you know then decide if we wanted to go the route of a deficiency judgment if there's a surplus you know depends if there's other lean holders on how that money is distributed but it's not necessarily going it's not like a purchase and sale contract it's an OP yeah yeah it's an auction okay c c back like and now it's I thought it was like Monopoly you know just like you can't pay your bill now it's mine uh Captain go ahead yeah Captain yeah he's W me down so just to clarify we have been monitoring that property um Deputy Graham's been going by there almost daily and the trash debris that's on the property has been what we thought was on his property not on the city right away because it was all being kept back behind the telephone pole in in a mailbox there uh we can't do anything about the stuff being in the truck uh it actually would have to be on the ground first to write the lering citation just looked on the Property Appraiser's website and as Mr Bagby has pointed out on numerous occasions that's not always the most accurate thing but the Property Appraiser's website is showing the city right away going all the way up to his fence I would have certainly thought that there was a setback but apparently there's not if that's accurate um Graham will go issue him a citation for whatever trash is on the ground outside that fence tomorrow daily sounds like a great idea good idea captain if the car doesn't have tags that are legal can those you know be sided because it's a vehicle full of junk that can't be driven that's a city code violation that the I thought we had code about you have to have a uh improved surface for parking so I think from again Code Compliance staff isn't here but remember there's a lean on the property that's already approaching $100,000 so I think they feel like there's something in place what does council want to do how much can you beat a dead horse yes okay Council backy sorry about that so the access easement who determines where that is because this is a landlock parcel that we're foreclosing on and it looks like he's got Junk uh from property line to property line who who says here's your here's where your access easement you're and how how big is that is that 10ft wide is that 20 foot wide is there a legal standard I mean I I don't know any of this but I'm just trying to figure out how we're going to get back there without going on somebody else's property and you know climbing their fence or whatever I mean so we can get access through voluntary easements or we can go through Court we have never had any of those conversations yet if we're really looking to go down the route of potentially foreclosing on that property then we can get you more information and get a surveyor to assist us with the realities of how the access would work yeah if it's not agreed to voluntarily it will be through the court and then I and I guess to uh for due diligence part to uh Kevin's point of potentially the backyard neighbor can we can we reach out to Judy here and see if she wants to be be a willing buyer of this parcel to extend her backyard that mean her her information right here on the property appraisal website she would be the the one option we have as far as a backyard extension true no oh guess on the sides here that's right yeah I'll leave I'll leave the real estate stuff to the realators um C bagman anything else all right all right we do have did John did anyone second your motion I know I I had some notes on that uh John what was your motion uh my motion was to uh direct city manager to work with the property owner to see if he can voluntarily comply within the next seven days on the rideway otherwise we can go for forward with the Foreclosure is that right what you said I don't know if you wanted to take council member Dustin's uh comment about the days not being long enough or how you yeah I'm I'm okay removing that part had a motion yeah but he's substituting so if someone sub okay yeah second all right second by councilman Schmidt all right we'll call the vote on The Substitute motion and we'll go back to the first if it fails all right I have it 61 there you go we're going to make so much money subsidizing our YouTube channel all right push your button when you say funny thing I know moving right along no we already paid Kim enough all right uh dead issuance all right so um as you all know we pushed off the uh the due dates for the um the proposals from the bankers and from the underwriters um so tonight we have just a very short um presentation for you and uh just so that you know what how to expect the next steps um so let's see uh first of all um again the question why borrow uh and the example we have here is the the cross down connector currently we're not just not able to save up funds quickly enough from the appropriate funding sources uh to actually do the construction so the example here with the cross town connector if we had uh gotten the construction under contract back in 2017 the project would have cost closer to $4 million uh today we're looking at an engineering opinion a probable cost of of 10 million doll next and and then when we consider borrowing bwing we also think about the the time length of borrowing so in the case of a roadway um do you want to do a 10-year loan or a 20-year loan um some people might say that if you you do the 10-year loan yes you're saving a lot of money on interest but then you're applying all of the cost of building that roadway onto uh 10 years worth of residence whereas if you put the duration out a bit longer it goes forward uh to cover all the residents who use it for the next 20 years the next uh one last little slide here about uh choosing duration this is again the cross town connector example uh the debt for The Debt Service for the cross town connector buildout uh staffer recommending using gas tax number two uh gas tax number two is highly restricted by the state it's for comprehensive plan related uh roadways so uh the cross down connector totally fits that bill but as you can see the gas tax 2 it just trickles in at $200 to $300,000 of a year so if you look at the the options that we've put out there a 10year loan a 15year loan or a 20-year loan um the gas tax 2 is not coming in fast enough to make the full Deb service on a 10 or a 15 loan 15year loan uh so the bottom you have in highlighted yellow numbers you can see the impact on your general fund so if if you go the 20-year route the uh gas tax number two pays the bulk of The Debt Service if you go a shorter duration you see a much larger impact on the general fund which also affects our operations uh next slide please and then here is just the the whole picture of all the money that we're looking to borrow and what would be the effects on the general fund uh so if we went with a a 10-year amortization for all the money that we're borrowing uh in the early years the impact on the general fund would be uh 7 to uh nearly a million dollars a year uh which is very significant impact on our general operations uh as opposed to the 20-year plan you can see it's a very minimal impact on the general operations um next so here we are at the next steps uh all of the data should be coming in from the banks and from the underwriters at the end of September I should have all of the data summarized by October 1st and I highly encourage council members to come in to uh do briefings with staff between October 1st and October 7th so that you understand the implications long-term implications on General operations as well as the total cost uh of these different options that will be provided to us to help you make the best decision on October 7th all right there um we're passed this um let's see we have some informational only reports in your packet operational financial report Capital project status report and the TDC monthly reports uh since these are oper uh informational only uh before I move on to the next piece uh are there any comments by council members on any of those informational items see none all right then we're going to move on to announcements um I'm going to start with a few announcements these are just responses to uh motions that Council has made over the past couple meetings uh there was a a move to direct staff to install a public webcam at Joe's Bayou um to make the data available on a public website uh the bucket truck will be going in tomorrow to install the missing piece of Hardware so that we can start live streaming the data from that Joe's byou camera uh we'll have another update for you on October 7th hopefully it will be uh live streaming by then um there's another motion to uh issue the pickle ball construction request for bids uh that bid is out on the street uh went out on September 13th and then we had um Council moved to read vertise the request for bids for Mis miscellaneous median maintenance services uh that one is is updated and nearly ready to publish out on the street and we're also going to do the uh the parking fee collection system again as you know uh we did an RFB for parking fees um when we went to negotiate with that vendor they were not able to uh do all of the services that Council requested so we're uh push putting that one back out on the street again uh let's see we have uh there was a question about a development order behind muu restaurant to build a parking structure um there was a the development order was approved after maggu went back and did their financial feasibility study they determined that it's not a financial feasible project to do so that development order expired uh we had a motion for the City attorney to collaborate with code compliance for educational sessions um and so those are starting on September 25th and we plan for those to be monthly we also had a motion to revise the city's shift differential pay policy um to increase the the evenings and weekends amount to uh not to exceed amount of $3 or more per hour and the uh shift differential policy internally has been updated to reflect that and that will be become effective on October 1st 2024 uh Tamara has a couple more announcements before we go on to the next go ahead Tamara I do thank you we'll participate in the international Coastal cleanup this Saturday from 8: to 10: a.m. there are numerous locations people can choose from including at June white Decker park for those interested you can register online at the city's Facebook page there will be a joint in-house training between the C- Department Community Development Department and City attorney on September 25th to assist in enhancing some of the services they're offering to our community October 1st there will be a city council Forum from 6:00 to 8:00 pm. hosted by the Chamber of Commerce and the Emerald Coast Association of Realtors it'll take place here in the annex and the format will include opening and closing statements from each candidate along with the series of questions asked from the chamber and ecar the order in which the candidates answer uh questions will be done by blind draw and the Forum will be live streamed on the chambers YouTube channel the Destin SE Food Festival begins soon and there will be free vendor parking uh for those with a permit allowed on the North section of maror parking and also the Zerby parking lot for the public there's a free shuttle pickup at the west parking lot of Morgan Sports Center and that shuttle schedule will run Friday September 27th through Sunday September 29th and specific times are um located on the Destin seafood festival.com website and finally Public Works is starting our Citywide annual tree trimming program thank you all right thank you for that all right councilman oh yeah got the other side public hearings all right Kim take it away thank you this is second reading of ordinance 2410 CN an ordinance of the city of dtin of Okaloosa County Florida adopting the final levying of ADV valorum taxes for the city of Dustin for fiscal year 2025 and providing an eff date the proposed fiscal year 2025 operating millage rate for the city of dtin is 1. 6150 Ms which is more than the roll back rate of 1. 14969 by 7.89% all right seeing that this is a public hearing at this time if there's anyone who would like to speak on this topic this is your time to do so in public comments seeing none I will close the public comments and entertain anation at this time right now I got councilman Bagby move that Council adopt ordinance 21-10 CN on second reading adopting a proposed fiscal year 2025 millage rate of 1. 6150 Mills which is more than the roll back rate of 1. 14969 by 7.89% second all right motion by councilman Bagby second by councilwoman AAR do I see any further discussions seeing none I call the vote all right millage rate it is keeping it the same all right Kim this is second reading of ordinance 2411 CN adopting the fiscal year 2025 budget an ordinance of the city of Dustin making Appropriations for certain expenditures expenses Capital Improvements and certain indebtedness of the city of Dustin Florida for the fiscal year beginning October 1st 2024 and ending September 30th 2025 and providing for an effective date seeing that this is a public hearing at this time if anyone from the public wishes to speak on this topic this is your time to do so seeing a couple nodding shaking heads I will close the public comments and entertain a motion at this time councilwoman abar looking for the motion ordinance 2411 C on second reading to provide for a balanced budget for fiscal year 2025 all right I have a motion do I hear a second I'll second second by councilman Stevens further discussion councilman Schmidt just uh few questions um the item report it says that since the last meeting we had a net effective budget of a $10,000 decrease but then also has 605,000 total proposed reductions so are those reductions in the current budget that we just made a motion to pass no sir just the $110,000 so at the um public hearing number one um we received that request to remove $10,000 for election fees uh so that was re that was removed and then the uh the ad was sent off to the news paper Friday morning right after the that public hearing number one um on the following week when all of Staff convened they met to um to review the request to bring back recommendations to reduce the operating budget by 3% so what you have in your packet is a listing of the calculation how we got to the 3% which is $65,000 and there's a listing here in by Major governmental function General government uh Code Compliance uh physical environment storm water uh transportation and so forth uh you see the uh listings of proposed cuts that the directors have made so the alternate you have the primary uh Motion in your packet and you also have an alternate motion which would be to adopt this Budget on second reading uh but to include the 3% reductions proposed by staff um which would reduce the FY 2025 budget from 65.2 million down to 64.7 million okay um yeah well I'm going to go ahead and make a substitute motion please actually I I'll I'll I'll I know this a big item so I can just let other discussion first and then on this first topic and then I can come back okay uh councilman dtin thank you mayor um the proposed 3% reduction is of course what I would support and the beauty of it is we're not reducing the amount of money that we are collecting or spending we're simply moving it out of the operational budget of the city into a reserve or to a general fund so that money is still there and the nice thing about these budgets are there living document we can change this budget next meeting if we want to so we've got a we've got a $67,000 cushion there that we could use to reduce that Bond or that bank loan in 10 or 15 year RS rather than 20 and S save an excess of a million or I'm not sure how many dollars but a whole lot of interest on the other hand if it becomes obvious to us that three 3% reduction in the operating budget is not going to work that uh some of our departments are not going to be able to survive with a 3% reduction we have the option to put it back in if we have to we have the option to do a number of things I did notice some of the reductions were were uh could be construed to be as onerous we're going to take out the Christmas vacations and and some other things that it it appears to be an attempt to make it pretty honorous but we change those that's all under control of the council and so I think at least we should make an an attempt to toh save some money put it toward reducing the interest on that bond issue or put it to reserves because we were going to reduce our reserves down to a point that's pretty unacceptable so uh it's it's not a wise thing to do and if and if we can't reduce our operational budget by 3% then there's something dramatically wrong with um the operation of our city and and this this Council stewardship in my opinion so I will make the motion to uh Institute that adopt the budget with that 3% reduction operational operations second all right I have a motion seconded by councilman Schmidt going councilman Bagby yeah so I'll probably support the motion on the floor the substitute motion on the floor CU I like the fact that we just didn't do a 3% across the board we did some targeted Cuts but I do have a few questions about those cuts just so I make sure I understand so the 25,000 for The Aquatic Center when's the last time we actually gave the Aquatic Center 25,000 because I know we didn't do it for like the last two years so no we we did it um to two years ago so not for 2024 we gave it to them last in 2023 okay all right so that that's part of it and and I understand Mr D's Point how much do we have in for the deputy or I'm sorry assistant city manager position here Jamie's looking at the all in cost I know that in the proposed budget we did reduce it yeah you reduced it by 16,000 but I'm just asking and that was what a 10% cut or a council limited that salary to 125,000 125,000 okay so we still have it in there but we are waiting till Lewis gets back or something to see if we I mean because it's an authorized position still in the books it's still funded yes right we're just waiting on some direction okay all right the uh and we reduce the council benefits by 35,000 the hike Vision cameras what were they fores yeah the Chinese cameras Chinese cameras that we have to get rid of because it's sending data back to Beijing okay got it okay then 86 for the deputy director in code and then 77 for the code training officer 3,000 for the code train so 167,000 out of code code and of course they're not here tonight to defend themselves so you know over the last few years we have almost unanimously said we need to do more with code and get more code people out there I understand we're we're short now but is is that really did the code Department uh have any input into these cuts and the new director of the code director or the new boss of the code director I'm not sure what y'all did actually with the realignment but so yeah code's brought back under Community Development um and so the need for a deputy director um is no longer there okay so y'all are providing the administrative oversight and overhead for that group yeah the the deputy director position and all the responsibilities for that that um you know is now under the code manager and then the director position or director responsibilities is now under the community development director okay the one that or one of a couple that I had some probably a little issue with the 75,000 for the engineering Professional Services okay we don't have an engineer anymore so I would have expected that number to possibly increase not say oh yeah we're going to take 75,000 out of the engineering part of the budget what are y all purporting to use the salary that we're not using for the city engineer yeah so when when when we did have a city engineer all the engineering work was done right the stamping the certifying and all that was done by the city engineer now that we don't have one the 75 it was originally the continuing Services of 150,000 we reduce out to 75,000 um we believe that the amount of work that will be needed in the absence of a city engineer won't won't be above 75,000 so we reduce the overall and how how much for a city for an engineer to review plans and Stamp Those plans for some of our ongoing projects um I think Ryan had put that together before he left I don't have the numbers because it was in the engineering fees um study that he was putting together um he I don't have a I don't have a solid answer for you to be honest with you um I'm not going to sit here and try and make one up that sounds good either so um I just I just know that the reason why it was the the continuing or whatever that con that 150,000 was we reduce it to 75 because we don't we believe that the need to send out the projects to a certified engineer to review and stamp and certify uh won't exceeded that 75 in the absence of a city engineer I I will tell you that's not many sets of plans it's it's not a ton no over over the next year and I I would uh I I really I won't say have heartburn I think you need to go look at that and pull out whatever Ryan did for you and come back at the next meeting and say you know we probably shouldn't cut that 75,000 at this time until either a we have a city engineer who has the ability to stamp plans or we've gotten a bid from a you know an engineering firm that says yes we'll go ongoing Services contract with you or whatever because I of all the the cuts here that's probably the top one or two that one that I I do not agree with because I I think you will be back here probably before the end of the year saying uh we need that $75,000 back but as Mr D pointed out it's not like it's going away or not coming it's going to be sitting there but that's uh 75 ,000 for subtotal Transportation was that the engineering Professional Services or that's correct so uh transportation is the category where Engineering Services fall according to the uh State of Florida that's how we all wrote uh report all the way up through the State of Florida okay and then this is probably the second one uh the 100K for the special events I I need a more detailed breakout you know as Christmas Day core we had 70,000 in the budget originally for Christmas decorations this year originally we had 140 and then we cut it in half by 70 so now are you cutting all 70,000 of the Christmas decor what is this actually you know I just want a little detail here can you help me yes the special events category which covers uh Christmas Christmas decor parade giveaways and other uh special holiday events such as Easter and so forth traditionally the city uh if you look at the trend over the last few years the city has spent um closer to $60,000 a year uh this year the proposed budget was $28,000 okay which include included $140,000 which was the quote that Lisa had to do uh lights and they had it all by Zone and it was this contractor that was going to come in use their own equipment put it up uh and pull it down and so forth so um under uh interim city manager Larry he said look at this trend of what we've normally spent uh we could probably get by with $108,000 this year we don't need $28,000 so that's where the $100,000 uh reduction came in special events and yes it's true we as a city we've never gone out to have uh private contractors come in put up the lights and take them down and so forth uh so that was also one of the ideas maybe we don't need to start that this this year maybe we start that in a future year and just do what we've been doing in the past with the equipment that we have okay and then the 53.9 from the community center the there's just no specificity there you know you just say hey we're going to do I I would prefer to know what um it's it's all of these little tabs right here it's a bunch of little things and they total up to $54,000 but it's a lot of it's a lot of uh a detail that would have just taken up a a lot more pages in your um if you'd like me to hand you this detail I can do that okay uh Madam attorney I see that we're doing miscellaneous representation uh for 141,000 what what miscellaneous representation is that that may be another Law Firm we have several so hold on is that the other law firms okay doesn't go to me but we have litigation Council we have special projects Council we have Labor unemployment council and sometimes we may have Bond Council okay so we already have money in there for the labor attorney we have money in there for the oh no see this is the problem with going this late we don't have money in there for the lands but we do have money in there for the franchise attorney and this is miscellaneous representation so I'm just trying to figure out because that's kind of a big number so it's all the litigation I don't do this spreadsheet Crystal does so I need to check with her but it's the litigation so we have different attorneys doing litigation I do some Kyle does some Bill Warner's Law Firm does some they're at 85,000 actually they sent me an email today on one of the cases which was authorized by Council for up to a 100 so I have to come back to you soon on that one I was going to bring that up at the next meeting but it's spread between about four law firms but I guess going forward it's all litigation so it's not one case that I could tell you it's all City litigation okay so at the next meeting I I'd like to see what that 141,000 looks like here here's my point the the fishing fleet has been our major litigation okay and we're done and now we're going to go well we're going to go after our attorney's fees we are but the Destin fishing fleet has more than one case against the city so we're done and $85,000 into one5 with just the insurance defense that do include me and K so um we're not done with the fleet but we are done mostly with the Bert Harris case right other than the attorney's fees in that one we have to put together our fees and let the judge decide I'm not sure that that's even is that included in this 140 okay so that is included also okay because I just I think that's kind of over um and then the overtime fees for Community Development to the tune of $43,500 Tech um building inspectors and then the um uh engineering assistant and Engineering inspector okay um so uh with having a full complement of building inspectors and with um now Jeff our engineering inspector site inspector um the need for a lot the need for constant going out and about for the engineer is engineering division is gone uh because Jeff is out there every single day looking at all the construction project not every single one but he's roving around so that needs gone um full complement of building inspectors um shouldn't need too much um uh uh overtime and uh we're also in the process I believe of hiring and filling out our permit Tech positions right now as well so we should have complement of um Building Division um to to be able to handle the the to reduce the need for overtime okay well that that would be my point that that's a large overtime number but we have the Professional Services in Community Development Annex 8 which I learned something tonight from Crystal annexation does are the annex Professional Services is isn't talking about here it's talking about the annexation but we have 133,000 let's see for one and 140,000 for the Professional Services so the annexation requires a full meets and Bounds survey of the area to be annexed and that's the the the survey quote that you see in there is what what we got back from the surveyor to do that okay and the survey isn't going to be done until after we do a survey of the people that own those properties to see if there's you corre if we're at 6040 or if we're at 10 90 or where we are right correct yes the yeah the the physical the the land survey um would would be one of the last steps in the annexation process or we would un we would know at that point to go ahead and do it to spend that cash because we wouldn't do that right out the gate so we think that we will do that in this coming FIS between 1 October and 30 September 25 knowing that it wouldn't be on the ballot until 26 correct but that if you walk the 26 back we have to get it done before a certain date of the election and then they have like a 9mon turnaround around for this much land so you're really looking at almost a year so yeah I'm hoping legal descriptions when you do the ordinance it has to be attached as an exhibit for the public notice okay yeah so the I I would say almost hopefully by this time next year we know for pulling the trigger it would almost be one of the last things we do of 20 25 and then did we say is it our understanding that we would have to do the meats and Bounds of the land we hope to Annex or every single parcel within the land that we hope to Annex the the land in which we Annex we do not have to meets and Bounds every parcel just just the land okay and we say that's 140,000 or 130 that's what we got back from our city surveyor okay see Crystal I have my little tabs too uh um trying to stick to the big ones yeah do you not do your briefing no I didn't do my briefing and because we I figured we would be doing the 3% I want to identify some other places that we ought to be taking money other than I guarantee you I would almost bet my house will be into that 75,000 engineering fee before the end of this year if not before the end of March so I want I for what it's worth um we'll also be be bringing back a uh FY 2025 budget amendment probably um in November or so because at this moment in time I don't know how much of the the grant funds we going to be uh totally spent out so the estimates that are in this budget that we're proposing tonight um they're not exactly you know we we don't know for sure what the true numbers are going to be and both on the revenue side as well as on the expenditure side as you know the best practice is to try to spend out all of those Grant funds so we will be bringing back an amendment probably in uh November there might be some other items as well um I don't know if we'll know how far along we're going to be in expending the um Professional Services on Engineers by then but um you know if we don't have a city engineer hired yet then we can start doing little internal transfers out of that salary line uh to keep the continuing the Professional Services for the engineering department going and which of those come back before the council uh any amendments come back before Council just want make sure we we remember that and we don't say that that's within the city manager spending Authority and that's how we move that money because when you re-budget it that's a council decision not a city manager moving money from his little pot there hey uh on Parks this one I just didn't understand Leonard Dustin Park in particular repairs and maintenance $4,000 okay the last last year or this year I'm sorry we had 14,000 the year before we actually spent 19,900 normally maintenance costs go up as a facility gets older why is ours going from 14,000 to 4,000 so the 14,000 was that um UV light that we had to replace which was a component that I would think we will not be replacing again MH and um we have the money in operating supplies which operating supplies is if we do the repairs and maintenance inhouse that's where my um expenses come from so I believe that we'll be okay with that and also I have the pool being contracted out for um maintenance this the splash pad okay and then just to confirm the TDC Beach operations Crystal that's the money that we get from the TDC the 625,000 or whatever yes that's correct that's our uh part of the 12 and a half% funding that we receive each year and we budget all of those funds to go to the uh to Staffing the people who go around pick up the garbage keep those bathrooms and those showers going okay the uh the only thing the main thing is the engineering and cutting the events or the whatever and I I get we've budgeted 160 and we've only spent 85 okay cut that but when you do that I need to know if Miss Jenny needs to go buy more candy for the Christmas parade okay because I don't want to show up with what I normally have and all a sudden find out there's no candy in my golf cart or whatever I'm riding so that's the important stuff is keep me out of trouble at home okay I told him we should all buy more out of our own pocket yeah all right Council schi thank you Mr Mayor um thank Mr deson for making that substitute uh you know we talk a lot about being a fiscally responsible City it's one of our top goals in the city and we have a lot of amazing staff members and directors and everybody all across um I will say you know I've been doing you know personally a lot of research and Excel spreadsheet sheets and highlighting and a lot of tabs I think a lot of those tabs from Crystal's paperwork might have been from my queries um you know uh just for what for what it's worth in case you guys looked at any of the information that came out today over the last few years our our operational um you know expenditures um were anywhere between three4 a million and $1.5 million uh lower than anticipated right um and that's made up of uh a multiple factors and Crystal can add or correct me if I'm wrong on some of these things um you know it might be that we expected to do a harbor study but then we didn't do it so it got pushed to the next year um I also looked at just this 24 fiscal year and you know you can look at between $10,000 and $100,000 of what's remaining in the budget for the next uh two months two months uh I mean there's over a million dollars uh that's out there uh a lot of it some of these uh positions that aren't filled or aren't going to be filled and a lot of it's um you know I think as what we've heard in the previous meetings um catchalls or emergency funds or rainy day funds and things like that uh I'm all about the 3% budget cut it's not I'm we're not cutting salaries and that's very important um I think I think from what I've seen and if if uh me personally if I get reelected over the next four years I'm going to be doing a lot more uh specific fine-tuning on the budget process because one it's it's all these buckets we have all these buckets that I pointed out last meeting and Mr Bagby is continuing to do tonight they're just there and I get that we're not spending the money sometimes but we could better allocate the money appropriately uh towards the payoff of the the loans earlier and things like that um you know there's there's no budget item right now to beautify our medians and our landscaping around the city there's no budgets for certain parks in our city to do certain things except emergency actions so um you know there's a lot of money that gets budgeted for something that sometimes doesn't even get used um and you know I I I feel bad for uh Lisa and her her Department nearly $200,000 that's being cut um I think that the city manager could go back through that 3% and find actual stuff that's not being used or going to be used and cut it um rather than positions that were going to be filled and things like that you know Code Compliance is now underneath code uh the the new department they didn't cut that it's it's not happening you know so I I would personally scratch that one right there and tell them to go find another $160,000 from somewhere else off the budget on me personally but um you know we owe it to the city citizens to spend their money appropriately and our staff does a very good job of spending it appropriately but sometimes we it's too broad uh the line items are too broad and I think uh moving forward you know I'm hoping if I can continue to find ways to help them to make it more efficient and clean it up so that way we can make sure we're using the money wisely for next year and 5 years from now and everything else and and um so yeah uh I'm glad we're here I know this is late and this is a big 60 something plus million dollar budget so you know it it deserves the respect and time that we're giving I think but uh thanks Mr Bagby for bringing that up and Mr Dustin for continuing to lower the sharpen the pencil again right with that councilman Dustin thank came here and the point I was going to make is exactly along those lines the rules require us to pass a budget tonight um like many of the items Mr Bagby went through and and I'm sure you have some too Kevin that I would have done it differently we have the opportunity to do it differently at the next meeting or at the budget reconciliation that she's talking about but we do have to pass a budget tonight so that's why I didn't bring a whole bunch of little pin marks all over my budget you know we got to pass something tonight and then we can fix it later if it needs to be fixed councilwoman abor thanks mayor I agree with Dey and Kevin and thanks Jim for going through some of the line by lines of things to verify where it was at I I feel like like Kevin said that we could probably thin out some of the other things that aren't going to be spent money that's not going to be used and I feel like it's a disservice to our citizens that have asked us for years why can't we do something better with our Christmas decorations and I'm sad for you Lisa that you had finally found a company that could do it and I'll tell you right now that was a very good price that they were going to do it for and I hate that it came off but we are trying to be respectful of our citizens and their money and spend it wisely and do what's best in all divisions so I just hope that we can find another way to get rid of stuff that's not going to be spent and bring it back around to taking care of things that matter so thank you on the uh Christmas it's going to kind of come up funny but I'm actually somewhat serious uh one of the very few things I get to do as mayor is uh call a peace posi and if there's one holiday that's about Goodwill and peace on Earth it would be Christmas so we might turn the peace posi into a bunch of helping eles and we'll go around and just get string of lights and we'll see if we can do it volunteer style so I mean if if that's what we got to do to put up some lights I mean heck why not so that that's what I'm gonna be doing great I love Christmas I'm a gall councilman bag me what do we look at our house yeah yeah uh a couple points and Mr Schmidt uh highlighted he last time he he identified a lot of these spinning things and we have a chance to say you know what let's uh put 50,000 back into the Christmas decorations and here's where I would take it from and you can do that any council member can do that at any meeting and and say i' I'd like to propose a budget amendment and we we can do that we can change our spending priorities what we need is a little specificity okay because and I know you were just looking for I got to get 3% I got to kind of this is kind of some big chunks I can take it from that you know nobody's going to scream too loud and we do have to pass it tonight so uh I would say when we do our operational spending report if we could have a look you have the big high level picture but if you have this as to what we've actually spent you know or what we've obligated and what is remaining then we can say well we're only 10% spent and then in our meetings we can go are we going to really spend the 90% in this budget line item over the next month and when you say no or the next 6 months or whatever then we can get a little bit better clue on on how to to manage this budget the one thing I forgot wasn't that it's supposed to be a budget item but it wasn't a budget item and that's why I didn't have a tab on it uh Jamie we strategic plan requires us to do a staff survey uh this year so before we' go into next year's strategic planning session you know off year or every two years we do one we do one to the citizens and then we do one to the staff and when Crystal and I were talking in today uh she was saying that we're planning on doing that inhouse I would really if there's any way that we cannot do that inhouse because I think some people say even if we do Survey Monkey you're going to know who who did the answers or Larry's going to know who did the answers or whoever run does the Survey Monkey whoever is The Keeper of the key there and so I I want Total anonymity for the staff and if that means you know we have to hire somebody to just run a Survey Monkey for us and they do it together it's not that I don't trust you but I don't want any of our staff members thinking I you know somebody might be able to tie this back to me uh if I make a comment so I'm just going to say yep everything's good and we should keep spending like we we are spending but it's supposed to help us be better and so if there's any way we can do that I would ask that you do that and I would ask that you I'll I'll call you offline and tell me what your ideas are to to do that separately but that is part of our strategic process and that's going to drive next year's strategic plan and they're going to say Jim was mean because he was going to cut our not our Cola but our Merit increase yeah I okay all right I see no further comment looking like confirmation there we have a substitute motion by councilman Dustin seconded by Schmidt if you need it let me know but we are going to call the vote eyes have it unanimously so moved we have done our state obligation I'll see you guys next year all right Cosmo Stevens comments presentations I'll be quick um piggybacking on the Christmas lights I mean what's the thoughts of maybe pitting out like a donation bin for anyone that wants to get rid of their old Christmas lights and stuff like that it might be a way for us to gain some lights that way um another but another um another topic really um uh we've been having some issues with uh our committees and Boards uh not meeting Quorum um just more or less seeing if there's any opportunity or any any interest of maybe off offering an alternate uh position or or even an an eighth person like I noticed um the harbor steering committee um the mayor actually uh uh appointed an eighth person for that so I was just seeing if we can possibly add an additional one potentially I think on on that point of trying to get more uh active participation I love what the P public works and safety does where they have a bucket of money each year so they don't have to come to us for everything and I I think you know after talking to some of the staff members I'm also in the 100% ingredients that we might have too many redundancies of committees uh especially with the harbor side there's like now three committees focusing on the Harbor um so whether we take the active people and bring them into one or we Empower some of these committees and say hey okay if we actually validate this committee with a budget per year maybe they have some autonomy and a little bit of skin in the game to feel like they're doing something more than just being a part of the process which is important but at the same time people get into get into the Committees to want to help and do something and I think a lot of discouragement comes from them going oh well you know we're just passing paper to the council and they can do what they want from there so um something to look at as we move forward it would save on staff timing I think um so there's some budget there and I think it would just help with overall morale from both staff and committees if if it's not worth funding at least in some way then maybe it's not worth having but I definitely love where you're going with that uh Council M just a reminder if you want to see the project status update Google city of Dustin agenda go to the agenda packet down to item 4H Capital project status it'll have the capital projects with the estimated dollar amounts and the status now with a little bit more enthusiasm I fell asleep 20 minutes ago when Jim was over there talking got some in Destin nothing tonight May c b nothing May c aare um two quick things Lisa I did say to Crystal during my briefing that um it would be I I could take it on for my own self for the Christmas parade but after than after Halloween go to Walmart they drop all their prices and everything just I just encourage those of us that do the parades buy more so you're not buying more with the funds and then secondly I know that we have a lot of lights that are still packaged up from last year that we bought because it were so inexpensive and I was just telling the mayor I think that's a great idea the getting people that have brand new stuff they never use and getting it and decorating the city at Christmas time might be a fun thing to do so I know I have a lot of stuff I can give you councilman King it's funny that you say that Miss bear I was going to make a motion to add $1,000 to the Christmas candy fund this year from wherever you guys see fit so that everyone has enough candy and doesn't have to bring their own all right I have a motion on the floor do I or second second second by Council we're going to get a vote all right right discussions or you know what just tell me how you feel with your vote which your budget to be expended when so we we have two different budget years going on right now we have F4 realiz that I'm talking about for this year for the month of year is over okay we we can buy it next week or uh we'll search for money in the 2025 budget to come up with whatever you got to do for there to be extra cand on all of their golf carts this Christmas this Christmas got it slightly selfish cuz I'm going to there's be in theow yeah he's going to be in the crowd get I'm going to be in the crowd with my kid for the first time ever so yeah just make sure there's $1,000 more that's the that's the motion on that floor yeah okay all right C my bag yeah I know it's not hard to find $1,000 but I just in a process when we when we ask the the staff to move money we have to tell them where to Move It from or ortion or from our from where wherever you see fit so if you would like to make a recommendation on where you would like to see take it out of our $50,000 contingency for fy2 great idea Ray can you have that to the motion Kevin are you cool with that Amendment Kevin didn't push his button but he said sure all right come on am I the only one that jaed up we're going to have some discussion on this motion I would just like to say that as a as discussion for this motion we're all talk we all talk about the Christmas lights and making sure Christmas is wonderful well I don't know how much you guys spend extra on I'm trying to help y'all out I spent 150 extra dollars on Christmas candy I don't care about the I don't love I don't care about the Christmas lights that much I love the candy my wife and I will drop around to look at Christmas lights because she and my kid like to see the Christmas lights it's so it's wonderful for them I'm more of a candy guy so and I know that that there are thousands and thousands of people who are there to participate in a candy event i' just like to see more candy all right all right call the vote Council spending a thousand bucks from the contingency all right oh that's one's got moral he's got to think about oh all right Council contingency 49,000 that's all I have for tonight thank you sir sorry Lisa my turn all right quickly uh is the high school interlocal coming at the next meeting I thought it was coming tonight uh we sent it to them a couple days before the agenda deadline they had some changes and then Destin water users attorney sent us a change so it didn't get completed by this Thursday um deadline so it's on the October 7th agenda long story short no thank you um did GF power ever get permits for cutting down stuff to put up a line and whatever they're doing yeah talk to your state reps they don't have to oh okay yeah I thought at first we we staff said they did have to I guess they don't though so on some areas where they overstepped their bounds okay they should have okay but yeah they yeah they'll they're rectifying that but they're good to go now yep all right and then will will the I know it's in the 25 budget but the uh Morgan's lights does that go out for bid after the budget's approved tonight or is that how does that get kicked off uh Lisa that was that a uh was that a contract a local contract that we were going to piggy back off so you'll bring that to council for them to approve okay so is that going to go out to bid for a million doar contct it's already been out to bid and the contract that she's CH for bid um I I don't have have a copy of the contract it's one of those Cooperative uh just like we did um just like we did the playground with it's one of those uh National cooperate so what's the process of a over million dollar contract so you have the option you can put an RFB out out in the world or if somebody has already done that procurement process for a product that you are looking into then you can just piggy back off of the great price that a larger entity decision internal city manager no that the the contract has to come to council it I guess the decision about not going out to bed right it comes to council and Council can choose you can choose to piggy back off of that contract or you can say staff we don't like uh this contract go and do your own RFP gotcha well I'd like to make a motion to go ahead and send RFP out to bid for the LED lights at Morgan Sports Complex all right I got a motion on the table do I hear a second second second by councilman King I got a question for B's got a question for Lisa are we planning on on piggybacking I thought there's some project we had where somebody had already done the playground Okaloosa school yes yes that we did the playground and then um Okaloosa School District um has done the procurement for musk lighting and um so we were going to piggy back off of that contract with MUSC lighting okay so do we need to so my I mean I'll go ahead and let you know then I guess my only issue with that was one I'm shocked that over million dollar project is not going to go out for bid but two I have I mean I've I've been doing research and there's people that will that do professional installed Stadium lights for the college NFL and all sorts Sports sorts of people across the country that I think would benefit the city to get a bid from before we just uh you know accept just because the school district did it okay School dist never mind and so we'll send it out to the people that we were going to piggyback and then to whoever you've identified that might do it for cheaper yeah Okay C medon my only question is this going to slow the process down yeah how much you think six months well I mean we're looking at probably 30 60 days for um to to get the RFB out and get it back and get it approved and at least 90 and do we lose do we lose our ability 90 days do we lose our ability to go with the musco or whatever company it is I mean they've given us the price um I'll have to have that conversation I don't have a guaranteed contract in place but the research I've done I would like to see a official proposal provided to us because there's been opportunities spoken to me verbally that we can get with the city of dtin through these companies to save a lot of money and if it's if it's that bad of a product from somewhere else then I guess they're pulling the wool over my eyes um but I would like for the citizens to have the opportunity to see that too all right seeing no further discussions we'll call the vote sending out for bid all right 61 RFB it is all righty I'm good for tonight City attorney nothing thank you mayor all right public comments just here for the sheer entertainment well I hope it was entertaining all right with that we are over 10 Vegas one I call this meeting adjourned