##VIDEO ID:LZHYYS5GZ6o## good morning this is the regular meeting of the town of dayon board of assessors uh August 7th 2024 the time is 9:38 um call this meeting to order it is a public meeting being video and audio recorded for cable broadcast and Internet Posting on www.on.com I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all attendance we are all here attendance there is no old business so we'll jump right into new business Stephanie take it away no invoices at this time all right um there are motor vehicle so we got 21 22 23 and 24 melan has been hard at work because there was a leasing company that sent us over 300 I think 300 what abatements yeah so they can get the money but the thing is things weren't done properly they didn't they weren't entitled to the money yeah I see I know that so it was a signing that is so illegal um just um make a motion that we Shame Shame I'll jump off the bridge that was an earlier joke yeah that was an off camera joke I make a motion that we approve and sign the levy of the 2021 motor vehicle abatements uh dated June 18 2024 in the amount of $16.50 i h second that motion motion made and seconded any discussion all those in favor I I I I make a motion that we approve and sign the uh list of abatements Levy of 2022 M vehicle July 25th July 25th 2024 and the amount was $685 I second that motion made and seconded any discussion hearing none all those in favor I I I oh I didn't put I didn't put little arrows and you guys are still still getting it right imagine that I'm imagining an arrow that spot for saving money in the office yes um I make a motion that we approve and sign the list of abatements L year 2024 motor vehicle batement July 25th 2024 in the amount of $1,213 and4 I second that motion motion made and seconded any discussion hearing none all in favor I I I do want to talk about this one then I won't sign that ahead of time uh I make a motion that we approve and sign the levy of 2023 motor vehicle abatements in the amount of $3,479 I second the motion motion made seconded um so I wanted to ask I this is what you were talking about this looks like all the same person over over and over and over comp you explain what happened here why why are they getting abatements for hundreds of vehicles because they submitted the proper what happen did they um how does that work get rid of them or sell them or something is that what what's the reason they usually that's what happens people will turn them in or so I'm sorry so a leasing company not short-term leasing this is like a three-year lease on a call I okay oh okay so the problem is and Pat Hadad had looked into filing legislation to correct this when you lease the car you're responsible for reimbursing the leasing company they will pay your excise taxes but then they bill you right okay if you turn it in before the end of the year there's that area of tax that's been paid that if you own that car you would get an abatement for right okay so they get the abatement they get the abatements the legation legal owner of so the amendment that she was proposing to a the law that covers leasing Vehicles was that when they get the money back from the community they must then give it back to the Lee the owner they build the owner so they money and they build the Les e for the entire tax but let's assume the person uh for some reason turned the car in six months ahead of time whatever it was that that excise tax has been paid for the whole year so now by the Lei by the Lor by the lur right l so now the Lesser says oh I got to get my money back from the town of dayon for all those excise taxes I paid but then they keep it unless you go after them to get the money right so if I understand this correctly I have to pay the leasing company $300 for my exx tax on my car you reimburse them yes and then because that's what they paid the town corre and they pass that on to me then I turn it in early and I get a $100 back from that 300 as the company but the company doesn't then give it back to the consumer correct who actually paid the 300 initially so they get to keep an extra 100 bucks yes or whatever and the only way you get that money back and it took me six months over six months to do it and I talked to people in the Philippines and pick a few other forign spots I finally got it back and that's when I took all that paperwork and sent it to her and they looked into it and there was an amendment filed and the last I heard it was referred to a committee but it dealt with consumer protection which would automatically require them to refund your money when they got it back right but you would think that would be standard thing that they would do but so you're looking at $3,000 here but but I think what you're saying is is slightly different than my question so my question is the car still exists does the leasing company still own the car yes yeah but it might not be indicted like they may release that to or sell it they might sell it to somebody in Somerset so lease it to someone else or sell it it might not be a d so in order to get is the company is that how this work in order to get an abatement they have to show us Plate's been cancelled and the vehicle has been sold we need a bill of sales should not be in session anymore those are two of the criteria so they proed to you that these 300 cars are not there anymore that was my original question so what happened to the vehicle take you to the scenic route to answer to your question the consumers that if they're leasing back the difference the difference in what they paid for excise tax to that company they should be our D taxpayers should know that I agree and and so I guess as a corollary to that is this company is doing it in a giant batch instead of doing it as yes and it's 23 not 24 so I'm thinking maybe they get someone in there that understood and said we got a lot of money on table this listan Grand yeah it is a lot a lot a lot of money because the list is so long but that's not that's not the point the point is they didn't do things properly they would have gotten more money back but they cancelled no they sold the car but then the plates weren't canceled or vice versa for months I we have to go for the later date sure sure you do so some of them and if they don't if they're not going to get at least $5 back then they're the abatement you can't do less than $5 so that's why a lot of them are 523 you know do they know $5 application fee for each one of we should that's a good so it's a watch mie $8.90 back days and she was printed things out and then after she printed out like one big batch they were all denied and she's like I got to look at these before I print it out cuz she had like a so she had to go through them individually yeah that's a lot of work yeah well definitely she worked hard on it so well nice job mie and the guy's name was kind of weird so we laugh every time she get another email anyway so okay any more discussion all in favor I I okay okay so just I just have a question how do you guys feel about me contacting uh R pad and asking what the status is of that legislation and if it you know you know I think it dies after a while but if it it's not still out there being considered that it get refiled this is a consumer protection thing isn't I would be surprised if the cfbb Consumer Financial Protection Bureau was not involved from the beginning and not require legislation to get back money that's right the consumer saw I saw it was just I mean it the the law goes on forever but there was a just a clause inserted that required them to return the money there was nothing to require them to do it and that was my point that's strange so my understanding due to other legislation is that uh didn't their session just end like July 31st or something like that and everything died she's probably talking this has been around for a while and the last thing I know is it went to a committee you know how they refer to committees so all I'm saying is how do you be contacting her to determine sure what the status of the legislation is and if it died would she please consider that's I'm saying I think everything is dead as of have to refile uh because you know um I'll indicate to her we we were working on abatements and it's like $3,000 it's that money belongs even even in the small moments it belongs to the the individual I agree and you're perfectly free to talk to her if you'd like okay and I'll report back you tell her Eric said call okay this is this is a warrant commitment for um motor vehicle for 2024 that's the third commitment going out you got two pages to sign okay without I know I know I just did we not how are we going to keep track bu I was on vacation and then I came back and put it together and this is this is going to be reflected in yourie I am sure AR stickies was that unorganized or I don't knowed or something First Defense second effect um I move that we approve the motor vehicle and trailer excise commitment for a 20 24 in the amount of $4,125 I second that motion motion made and seconded any discussion hearing none all in favor I I I yep y um so this is the fourth commitment going out motor vehicle this is the same thing just different quarter yep just yeah different why are we doing they just happen to be around the same time I don't comes from the uh collector okay that we approve the motor vehicle and trailer excise Tech 2024 and the amount of $5,5833 sense I second the motion motion made and seconded all in favor I I I have a problem that sign the get paid oh I already didn't do it did I I separated them so you do it you did I wasn't paying attention I actually this is going to be reflected on your review good that's it we were told yes so well see now I get the hand you can that step okay so we're we're wash oh no yeah okay thank you until next time yeah that one at the next candidates night when you they say he didn't sign not signing in the proper locations okay so the next on the list is update on pilot agreement for 38 North that's the name of the company for 2320 William Street so I heard from Sam vanam and I followed his email to you and I don't know what they were expecting from us because I told them we don't do special deals but the gist of the email was uh they weren't happy uh the first year tax payment under the pilot would be higher than what they're paying right now and he questioned depreciation so I told him that our pilot Agreements are frontend loaded that's why the first 10 years if you look at them MH are the highest and then they drop off quickly the thing he should focus on is the total of the taxes to be paid over 20 years did they dispute that because that's the important thing right um so I haven't responded to them um I it's like if we want to talk about and give them a deal they'll talk to us isn't that what you just said is that you were responding too no I'm not respond I haven't responded to him yet um at all him questioning the first year so you haven't told him that it's from wait a minute no after our last meeting okay I did send the email and I copied you guys on it when I sent out the pilot agreement this was at the town meeting when they missed all the deadlines I said to him uh here the boiler plate I've attached the payment schedule the 20 years the only thing I didn't attach was the plot plan and the inventory because we had all agreed that's correct then he wrote back to me and questioned the amount of the the first year taxes first your taxes because they were higher than what I did print out some of the emails she told me right okay so then I do have a few I don't know if it's exact one so some of them duplic my my question to you is what you were just saying to us about frontend loaded and over 20 years you have this disc that's communicated with him right yes look at the 20 years if 20 years is right then we frontload it correct so has he responded to that part so yeah his his last email to which I have not responded okay um dated July 26th just the other day um yeah this is the one that um when I responded which you guys have copied on on July the 9th um all the the doc writing is my explanation of what we're talking about uh including um how we arrived at we agreed on 2.0 megawatts and all that good stuff depreciation is taken into consideration when the taxes were computed by our Tax Advisor so for so on um he didn't like the $5,000 fee um which I responded to on the 10th of July because he said we we don't normally pay a signing fee I said it's not a signing fee and I quoted right from the pilot agreement it was to cover the cost of putting a pilot agreement together recording it and all that other good stuff anyhow he got all that with the with the umay payment student payment schedule he says 7:26 July 26 hi Nancy thank you for getting back to us unfortunately your proposal is not in line with our expectations we will discuss this with our advisor but we are probably not going to be interested in signing a pilot with these terms if you can provide any any additional details about the assumptions behind your numbers it might help us to get a mutually beneficial agreement best regard Sam well I'm not concerned about their expectations it's a boilerplate agreement you knew what it was when you initially asked so I don't know what your expectations were but I told them that we don't we don't custom these things oh you want this you want this because if you make changes once you do that you do it for every you got to have the lawyer to review it every time we're not that five grand would go quickly anyhow um um not interested to sign a pilot agreement with these terms what terms you're upset with the 5,000 you're upset with the payment schedule what else are you upset with I'm not going to guess so I haven't responded because as far as I'm concerned we are probably not going to be interested in ass signing a pilot that's fine they're the ones that ask for it you can't operate right oh no no they just pay regular taxes they're paying they pay regular taxes the rest of the story is backing up when Carol was here obviously this is the solar farm that took us to court and lost the next event was they took us to the appet tax board uh this is when Carol was still here and there was an agreement reached and yes I think for the first maybe first two years there was an abatement then they went into a schedule of payments based on their valuation so they they're paying taxes okay based on what came out of the appell tax board decision is this the same one that we talked about where um the depreciation didn't make sense remember we had that old discussion and they were they had some strange way of exactly exactly so all of that stuff that they had what has ended up with they have you know the taxes currently are they paying so uh could you check with somebody at Town Hall just give me a Bo oil plate what what are they paying for taxes okay but anyhow um so that got settled then I think I was still a select and Carol said to me they want a pilot agreement I said oh okay um she says but there's a problem they've got another case against us at the appell at tax board so even though there had been a settlement reached and they re received some money back I said tell them there is no way I'll go to town meeting with a pellet tax wood hanging over my head abs absolutely not that needs to get resolved or they can withdraw pick one so it came down to we really want the pilot agreement then withdraw your case well if you withdraw the case you can't go back so as we were getting closer to a town meeting um then the next thing was if we withdraw our case our appeal can you guarantee that the town will approve a pilot agreement no I will take it to town meeting I will explain it I will do my best to get it approved by the voters if they say no it's no all smoldering in the background is the case they lost and periodically they reminded us they were wrong oh we have an agreement with you and you reneged finally I mail I actually emailed the judge's decision and all the backup to Sam and said I don't want to hear this anymore we've done on that issue so they withdrew from the appell at Tax Board we went ahead and put together the pilot agreement now the way it is put together right now was to late for the town meeting because I sent it last November and I don't know what they were doing so now we're in the stages we're going to put together a pilot agreement and we will take it to the fall town meeting which is what I did we worked with our tax consultant he came up with that whole schedule with you know the 2 and a half% that just like we did for the other one that passed with the intent of if we can agree on this then the board of assessors will review it and if they agree we will ask the selectman to put this on the warrant for the whenever the next specialist well we're at the stage now they don't think they're interested the other thing too is Sam doesn't understand this I can tell by the way he talks he's the mouthpiece for somebody maybe they're lawyers or whoever because at times he he makes statements that I think to myself I already told you that well that doesn't make any sense so I just personally feel okay you're not interested okay you you'll get build based on what the valuation is that we currently have on the books and we just continue on but it whatever they're looking for they don't like the terms and I can't change the terms yeah that's what I'm saying is there's not a negotiability angle to this right there's not negotiating a new contract because everybody else that's in town that's got solar Farms is signing the same agreement and that's the way the town has accepted the way we're going to do business so if they don't that's fine that's on them but then they're going to pay regular taxes on the property that they have correct it appears that unfortunately I mean am I misunderstanding yeah yeah you're right completely and it appears to me that um you know unfortunately these people they're just going to keep suing us and they're going to keep losing so lawyers lot of money but there's nothing for us to do here but you got to pay your taxes sorry and and the tax Pay Way in the boilerplate agreement where you're going to up you're going to upfront most of it that's fine I get it if you don't have the cash flow that's on you or you just pay what we assess you at so they are going to pay taxes based on the I'll call it the going rate because they are paying taxes and they have been paying taxes since since they went live but they're going to pay more without a piling agreement correct over 20 years if if in fact the the scenario plays out I would think so everyone's taxes seem to go up I mean we all know taxes go up every year they want my cash flow the That's What It Is Well the other thing too is my thought is are they are they going to sell this again the company we originally did business with and the company that took us to court was ISM solar DG Dion That's the same name as this one down on there two on Richmond Hill same name somewhere along the way ISM solar DG Dion the ones that took us to court must have sold us to this 38 North because this 38 North must have bought it with the understanding there was an agreement with the town and we're not living up to it well now they got they got the judge decision there's no place to go but my guess is if they could get the tax Schedule lower they're going to sell it again these are investments so uh ISM Sola DG dyon the on the second one down in Richmond Hill they're the ones that when we put the pilot agreement together and front end loaded the payment schedule they said everything's okay we did adjust the payment schedule and I looked had it they completely reversed it Carol and I laugh I says Carol tell them Uh something's wrong with their program the way we submitted the payment schedule is the payment schedule and that's what we got voted at CH me but yeah completely reversed it um and like I say these things get sold they one up behind um arjo's it's on its what third name and it took me a while to find what what's the real name of this it's a commodity they just trade it um so it's Macs now and Macs is the name that was voted on at town meeting so if they sell it again uh whoever gets it is bound by that agreement so but anyhow um I just there's nothing for us to do it we I think we should just let it sit that's it you know if they would like it to have their taxes reduced they're more than welcome to sign the pilot agreement that we created for them otherwise and we treat them the same way everybody pay your taxes y right so um so that's it we have uh let me think we've got a pilot agreement coming up it's going to be Brook Street solar there's a draft sitting on my computer that I started before everything came to a screeching halt um a Tax Advisor has not looked at that yet uh they got the go- ahead from the planning board a conditional approval uh to finish excuse me to put in the new drainage system uh storm water will act on that uh next week and you say okay and then I expect to hear from uh ahed HZ about a pilot agreement I told them it's already drafted I'm not doing anything with it till I find out if you got a basin that works because you can't go live with the Basin doesn't work so this is the last ditch effort to get a drainage system that works so that's one that will be coming back uh we'll be coming to you for the first time [Music] um uh the um Blue Wave which is tront in Middle they've got a pilot um Macs get pass to town meeting uh grasshop is coming uh William Street 2320 is that's the one I'm telling you about so for right now um we don't have any outstanding pilot agreements but the next one will be coming to you as far as I know it will be grasshopper on Brook Street okay okay um we're done with that move on to item F you have something to sign y this is um Rich's contract only signed by the chairman yes right you guys want to hear so while he's reviewing that you guys want to hear something interesting about solar sure 90% of the world's solar and wind turbines are made in China 90% of them they just built 149 brand new manufacturing facilities to make these environmental things they're all Coal Fired manufacturing plants and they have almost no regulation on their coal bur all the age of their employees they have this has never been about the environment so don't kid yourself it's not about the environment it's about control of resources uh this looks like a standard contract to me I don't see anything unusual about it it's it's saying a maximum of $5,000 um and the time frame is July 1st to December 31st so it's a so he's a month late he's working without contract okay I signed it in I signed it in the P bill I put myself out there uh Mr chairman I make a motion that we approve appr and authorize you to sign a contract with IG assessing Services LLC 78 hor Street Fall River uh in the amount of not to exceed not to in the amount not to exceed $5,000 for fy2 portion of it first for the first half of fy2 Are We responsible for anything here then I second that motion I'm just kidding all in favor I and no pre-s signage you know it'll be signed correctly now no no sticky notes no sticky I shouldn't even sign there you so so the plastic junk that's washing up everywhere yeah the foam the stuff from the turbine yeah thank you it's all actually Toxic by the way this is um they didn't tell you that either okay um it's not about the I'm just giving you guys it's been in the folder this was is your appoint has anybody gone to get signed in for fence viewer Nancy probably has she yeah I got all my stuff I did not get swor we should go get I do plenty of swearing but I did not swear in uh share it in I can't can I what am I doing am I signning something here or no no you check that form to share sh and right over there in okay I'll do that right after the meeting uh public input zero um correspondence titon Development Corporation so uh I'll just I made a copy of the email for you guys sorry um so so I'm gonna say if we're gonna I I should read this or somebody should read this um okay for the ca and people that know what we're talking about this is a letter from uh Daniel Higgins from the Bon development industrial commission to the board of assessors I want to follow up on a discussion regarding the proposed exemption for commercial personal property tax I know the board of assessors has previously discussed proposing a local option that allows the town to exempt personal property from taxation if the total value of the personal property account is less than a minimum amount established by the town $110,000 total valuation being maximum allowed under state law uh General Law chapter 59 uh 5 Clause 54 there are several reasons for implementing such a bylaw first the cost of the town with collecting taxes is not free Paul Reynolds was provided a rough calculation has provided sorry a rough calculation that a projected rate for Fisk year 24 of 2658 per th000 value versus the average cost for semianal tax printings mailing staff time occasional collection efforts Etc collections on total values under 2500 I.E annual tax revenue of $664 is not feasible the town is either losing money or is revenue neutral excellent point uh secondly allowing such an exemption is precisely the kind of policy that encourages Small Business Development 50% of new businesses on average begin at home before growing and becoming more commercially viable I do track the number and types of businesses di closely and over 50% of them are currently homebased precisely with attend own minimal taxable personal property not only are these businesses that may One Day become more consc commercially successful but they provide an important income to many of the residents of dayon a solution that offers them some relief and either cost the town nothing or or saves the town money can only make sense as an incentive to promote business growth is one step in changing the perception of Dion to one is more business-friendly the dayon the development and Industrial Commission is recommending a $5,000 total valuation exemption this is in line with many other towns in Massachusetts acted the same provision The Proposal in no way changes the requirement for business owners to file an annual form of list so the assessors can determine the value of the personal property and whether the exemption applies in that year if you have any questions please let me know my hope is the board of assessors will consider advocating for and placing this bylaw change on the next special Town Meeting thank you Daniel igin development industrial commission chair um I couldn't agree more yeah I agree I think that's um I mean I'm glad that for the um for the taxpayer that that they broke this down Paul did a nice job breaking this down because Paul being from the finance sector understands cost Effectiveness in not just doing things for the sake of doing it but I'm I think I'm confused he mentions 5,000 but yet we've got 10,000 already 10,000 is the max the law nothing we don't have we haven't accepted this section of the State LA we haven't accepted anything yet oh I see okay I thought we already the maximum is 10 but they're proposing 5,000 is a break even he's saying about five grand he said 2500 is really kind of the break even right if you tax somebody under 2500 bucks it's costing us money to tax them yeah right that's what he's saying if I understand that correctly and for any viewers and 5,000 is reasonable just double that because let's get to a point where we're going to actually make money if we tax them on something so 5 grand sounds like a pretty good break even point and a nice starting point for us um I I think it's a good idea but I'm wondering how many people would benefit at the 5,000 level and we should we be looking at a higher level like 10 I think that's probably a question for how many businesses do we have that have valuations of about 10,000 and would that help them of personal property yeah personal property get started um to be so unless they hand a form of list showing what they have for equipment then they're probably not being taxed so um and even $10,000 you're looking at $265 $265 in taxes that's not a lot of money that's not a lot generate and it would pretty much blanket anybody that was a small business running out of their home getting started and he's right give them incentives to grow and hire more people if you have over $10,000 worth of equipment you're pretty commercial yeah now you're getting a little bit bigger and viable I'm fine with that um I mean won't you buy a truck you're done that's it would you buy a company vehicle that's not ex won you buy a excavator or something right um so if if we get the bulaw pass for whatever the dollar amount amount is if somebody doesn't fit within the exemption they're over the limit they can file a form saying wait a minute I don't have $122,000 worth of equipment personal property okay here's what I got and here's what it's valued at they should be filing a form every year so um every homebased business should be filing a form every business every business no matter what right okay so any bus think in when Paul sends out um the bills there's room for some other paperwork that won't you know um increase the postage yes so um I Dan came in yesterday and we were talking so you know we could put something in there about please fill out your formal list type of thing to least the businesses so that they know that needs to come in well the other thing too is if the bylaw passes whatever the amount is instead of just automatically determining their exempt wouldn't that require them to file a list they still have to file the list it's but they filing right some are some are all right but for right now even if you don't file it you're getting some kind of tax relief All That B tax which is it if you don't file it we might not be they might not be paying personal property at all because we can't send our personal property people out to Homebase trespassing on unless they send us a what I'm thinking of is if the bylaw passes then I would think I as a business owner would say oh I'm required to send the list in now I got to get my list put together because I want to be exemp right it would encourage them to fill out the list and get the list to us now this is what if what if you're at 11,000 then you pay on all 11,000 you're not exempt on the first 10 no no no no I think it's a good idea I agree age yeah I agree but um would we do you want to go with five or 10 to me five isn't enough quite frankly I think 10's better because I'm I'm thinking you know uh there are a number of uh people who have uh hairdressing shops in their homes and when you think about what is in there I mean it's not cheap and they have to upgrade equipment and all that other good stuff um and not only that do you have any I'm sorry just a quick question for Stephanie do you do you have any idea based on what you see what's average for a home base business taxwise or value value I I really I'm not sure I mean they're picking up your computer your T your desk yourone could spend five grand on a computer alone right if you get a you get a if you get a desktop with that type of I mean there's appreciation every year and everything else but well if they want to write it off I mean you could spend Grand cor you can hit 5,000 pretty quick pretty quick I think better yeah the other thing too is if we put it at five then we may find out well you know what there's a whole bunch that are under 10 between we don't have to go back and have that bylaw remended again so if we accept up to what the state allows we're covered unless the state law changes and I know Dan has done a lot of research and he has you know he he pretty much knows what businesses are in town so we've discussed you know sitting and going through um business certificates to the businesses to you know what we are taxing people you know working with him I can't imagine he would object to us raising the limit I I wouldn't think so that makes us even more of a he might have more information on how many businesses to answer some of our questions so could we check with Dan and and find out what kind of research he did on uh how many small businesses and um uh what do what do they think what does this commission think of we go to 10 um and what does what does Paul Reynolds think um Can can we get like an export an Excel export or something like that of what to be able to come to this board and say if we were to enact this today the town would lose X in income I can maybe work with you see what I'm saying like all the personal property tax to an Excel spreadsheet and then sort it by valuation and then cut off 10,000 you could say now total how much tax was on that I I would imagine we should I'm to guess it's going to be a very low number is my guess um yeah but I I would suggest you know let's do that let's let's put this to the next meeting yeah and if that number is reasonable I would suggest going forward with the 10,000 actually if we could do 10,000 and 5,000 that would be so we can compare the two comp and Paul and and Dan like you say probably already have information that donear yeah but if you can give us numbers tell them we're looking I want to know that the town is is going to lose you know ,000 and not a million dollars right yeah I we should be able to do that yeah I think that's we doing okay uh review and approve minutes do we have any minutes we have no minutes any do we really have minutes this whole yep but how many of I've seen them go by why Haven you hav't oh you're behind you're telling me m okay because of the whole do and because of 300 abatement applications from M company yeah yep I can understand that I um request that we at least get the old ones taken care of so some people yes I know okay are there any unanticipated items um I will just say uh I will send an email to the board of selectman telling him we discussed the pilot agreement and and determined that there is no response required from the town okay all right that being said uh I will ENT aain a motion to so moved so moved second it all in favor I I thank you very much everybody have a ni now I have to go get sworn in yeah