[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome everybody you all sound very happy this morning uh Welcome to our uh Tuesday July 23rd City commission work session we'll call the meeting to order uh Jennifer would you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance I alce to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and thank you Jennifer all right exciting times we have some swearing ends so please good morning mayor vice mayor commissioner city manager I want to thank you for hosting this very important ceremony um I would like to recognize the friends the family and the loved ones that are in in attendance today and most importantly the reason we are here our new firefighters so I'm going to introduce them as they come in here get guys up [Music] front so firefighter ENT Michael BS Michael joined the Department on April 12th 2023 stand right here coming from Pasco County fire rescue where he served for 5 years so once again as we try to highlight that we are getting some of those uh amazingly good employees from other agencies uh Michael is one of those uh he has completed the paramedic class and is waiting to take his paramedic certification exam he is currently already cleared as an engine driver so that is a uh a big milestone and again because of his experience and what he came with it was uh very easy to get him cleared as a driver uh he's received additional training in Tech rescue while working on a specialized unit while in Pasco and he is currently assigned to B shift go step right down there for a second mhm firefighter paramedic Nick Carrasco come on out Nick joined the Department on January 4th 2023 uh coming from Sunstar so once again we are getting some of those quality employees from other agencies uh where he worked for two and a half years he has an associates degree from Florida International University Nick is also already cleared as an engine driver on SE shift think over there firefighter EMT Andrew trento Andrew started with the Department on August 23rd 2023 he is a veteran of the US Army having served seven years and being discharged as a staff sergeant he is currently enrolled in paramedic class at SBC and assigned to se shift when do you graduate December December so we have six months out from that thank you paramedic Jason Lightner Jason started with the Department on January 31st 2024 coming from Sunstar where he worked as a paramedic for 2 years he has completed the SBC fire academy and is awaiting his final test so prior to coming to Florida he would had nine years of experience as a firefighter in South Carolina and was an engine driver for three of those years so as part of the unfortunately Florida has some uh different certifications so uh even though he came with all this experience and qualifications he still had to go through uh the the fire academy and get re certificate certified so uh he finishing that up and then uh he'll be ready to go in Full full uh capacity and he is currently assigned to B shift firefighter Ryan Mullin so Ryan joined the Department on January 31st 2024 coming from Sunstar where he worked four years as an EMT he has recent recently competed completed his his paramedic certification and is working on his County EMS certification he is a graduate of the First Responders magnet program at pelis Park High School which is where we actually donated one of our engines if you remember uh maybe about three years ago to that program um so he is currently assigned to B shift as well quick little Side Story Jason and Ryan actually worked on the same Sunstar rig for how long about two years about two years so when we had the opportunity to get both at the same time we were very happy to do that so they came as a as a pair so and they're both assigned to B shift and doing very well so right over there so today We Gather to celebrate a momentous occasion the swearing in of our newest members into the fire service family this day marks the beginning of an incred incredible journey for each of you and a journey defined by bravery dedication and a profound commitment to the safety and well-being of our community to our new firefighters I extend the heartfelt congratulations you have choosen chosen a path that demands courage selflessness and a path that calls for you to stand tall in the face of danger and adversity your decision to join their R ranks speaks volumes about your character and willingness to put others before yourselves these firefighters that stand before you have completed 492 hours of fire academy and have completed paramedical school or in the process of paramedic school which typically takes one year once they have completed their formal education there is a year-long probationary period during which new firefighters complete additional training through deden fire rescue and the pelis County medical director as you take your oath remember that you're becoming part of a tradition that dates back centuries you're joining a Brotherhood and Sisterhood of firefighters that have dedicated their lives to protecting and serving this is a proud and Noble calling and I have no doubt that each of you will be able to rise to meet the expectation and and the challenges that lie ahead these firefighters will become the next generation of drivers lieutenants and chief officers in the days months and years to come these firefighters before you will be the ones to take care of the sick and injured members of our community providing the highest level of care and I know that all of us at one point will be calling for help at some point these are the ones that will respond and rush into a burning building when everybody else is running out to the family and friends who have supported our new firefighters thank you your encouragement and understanding uh of what they've gone through is invaluable your encouragement uh correction knowing your support will continue to be a Cornerstone of their success and to our community and commission rest assured these brave men and women will be ready to Serve and Protect with honor and dedication today they are pledging to safeguard our lives and property and I have full confidence in their ability to fulfill that pledge new firefighters welcome to the department we are proud to have you among us and we look forward to serving alongside IDE you congratulations once again and may you have a long safe and fulfilling career in the fire [Applause] service this time I'm going to have the mayor come and swear you in thank you gentlemen if you raise your right hand and repeat after me I andate your name I do solemnly swear you Solly swear to do my duty As A Firefighter to do my duty As A Firefighter for the Duneden fire and rescue Department to the fire department to the best of my ability to the best of my ability to serve my commanding officers to serve my commanding officers with respect and dignity with respect and dignity to serve the citizen citizens of dunan fire and rescue District of fire and resue district with compassion compassion courage and integrity courage and integrity and to uphold the laws and to uphold the laws and Constitution of the United States cons United States and the State of Florida the state of Florida and the City of den Eden and the City of you're [Applause] official thank [Applause] at this time if I could ask the uh family members that are going to come up and pin the firefighters to come on up and then if you would just spread out a little bit here come on guys stand up please go ahead and start do your p again [Applause] congratulations pictures down here all right go ahead and uh let's get in for some photos and I don't know if we're going you see all them back there I'll get in [Music] there get on my phone just to make sure it all right congratulations guys thank you thank you thank you mayor I did I think he has one could I just say that Nick was already one that helped me he already responded to an accident and hands are doing better and in the last swearing in you Derek so both your your paramedics got took care of already that's awesome all right so give me one second here to get my papers squared away again so I'd like to have uh Lieutenant uh paramedic Steve clouse come up St all right uh so this is Lieutenant paramedic Steve CLA so Steve has been a member of the department since January 7th of 2009 Steve is a came he's been a firefighter paramedic a driver uh and a truck driver a boat operator an fto uh an acting Lieutenant so uh when you start looking at those individuals who really embody everything that this uh the fire service needs and how basically becomes the uh the the model employeed to to uh replicate Steve is that um so Steve has been uh was promoted in Jan correction June 28th of 2023 so he's completed his first year and uh we want to honor him today with his pinning ceremony and who is going to come up and pin you Dam [Applause] and I do apologize I jump the gun if I could have the mayor come down and swear him in we're going to do a couple okay raise your right hand and repeat after me I Steve clouse do solemnly swear soln swear that I will support the policies that I will support the policies and procedures of D fire and rescue while serving in the position of Lieutenant while serving in the position of Lieutenant I will faithfully and honorably bear allegiance to my superiors I will do to the best of my ability to the best of my ability protect the safety protect saf and lives and life of the citizens of the CI and firefighters and Fir whose care has been entrusted to me has been usted [Applause] congratulations we'll get a photo here in just a second so I just uh want to make comment though uh Steve has had countless POS of uh interactions and um made he he's saved lives um most notably probably one of the ones who the who got um shot in the face and uh was pregnant came back probably 6 months later with her baby yeah it took about a year after that and uh they saved the life on scene and she was able to deliver a baby fulltime so it's just it was amazing so these are the employees that we have and we're so proud of them so uh if I can get a picture [Applause] congratulations thank you very much Mar thank you and thank you guys for coming and being a part of the den Eden family I know you guys have already been here for a while but we still appreciate you being here and uh protecting our community so congratulations [Applause] okay we'll move on to our next item which is the denan Scottish Arts Foundation Highland Games update Jeff did you have any opening remarks thank you mayor actually I do not I will let Eric welcome Eric thing good morning good morning um thank you for having me um wanted to come and tell you guys about some of the can you check your mic and see if it's on at the bot the base there we go all right uh good morning um I wanted to uh thank you for the opportunity to come and fill you in update you on some of the exciting things that have been happening over the last several months um the dedan Scottish Arts Foundation presented one of our most successful Highland Games ever um this past April we were delighted that we had beautiful weather and uh record crowds um and presented a it was a it was a fantastic day uh part A lot of that is made possible by our uh our continued relationship developing relationship I guess with business St P Clearwater and their support of our event um which has been a game changer for our ability to help get the word out to a larger broader audience all over over all over North America um and we're seeing those people come to the games and uh it's been great uh we were able to um return the proceeds of the Highland Games of $80,000 back into our community this year um most of that went to our middle school high school and city of denen pipe bands um almost $60,000 of that uh which is a significant uh amount of money for each of those bands uh the most I think that I can remember that we have been able to donate back on any one single uh event and uh the remaining the balance of that went towards various uh various programs some instruction some scholarship programs that we have and also to supporting many of the organizations who partnered with us to put on the event such as the denan high school wrestling team the denan uh cross country track and field team and uh the denen ROC program and also we uh in included donations to the various churches who came forward to generously allow us to park many cars um at their facility so uh it felt uh it was a very rewarding to be able to work really hard put on a great event and then be able to turn around and uh support the community back and return those funds to various programs so that was great um I'll also uh fill you in that we have just a couple weeks ago we finished our third dedan tide of piping and drumming which is a weekl long summer program summer camp school program for piping and drumming uh we've been working to try and build that up um and our first two years that we ran it I I would say we're we're a little bit smaller we were right around 20 students those years and this year we were almost 40 um which was very encouraging and next year we're hoping to beat 50 so that's our that's our goal there and very appreciative of the continued support we've had for that program from the city's Aid to organizations that's made a massive difference in helping support us to be able to get that program um off the ground up and running we've had this year we had an increase in attendance from both local students from the middle school and high school programs as well as other young people and older people from all over the State of Florida who are coming here to learn and spend a great week uh piping and drumming so very cool and we're excited to do that again we held it uh this year we were at the um our facility that we had last year no longer exists of course because it was at the uh we did at the Old City Hall last year um and this year we were at the uh First United Methodist Church facility there friendship Hall uh right in downtown denen and it was awesome um and uh it was a it was very it was a great partnership to work with that organization in den and be able to have that event happen there um we're looking forward to our Celtic Festival coming up in uh in November November Saturday November 23rd that's our next big event and then we've already sort of started planning for next year's Highland Games as well which I believe is Saturday April 5th 2025 wow um I'm pretty excited about that uh I also wanted to uh just update you about the city of den Eden pipe bands plans here um this year is the band's 60th anniversary which is kind of wild um and uh as part of that we are bringing two pipe bands over to Scotland um this August we leav in about two weeks time here and um which is coming up fast that's for sure and uh both our grade four bands and our grade one band um is uh heading over uh both bands are playing at the European championships and Perth on Sunday August 11th and then at the world pipe band championships in Glasgow the following week weekend um on uh August 17th uh the grade one band also plays on Friday August 16th so it's a two-day event there um and it's pretty exciting uh the band has uh we two big bands um traveling over with uh uh quite a few friends family guests who are traveling with us in addition to I know there's a large contingent of uh from within the community I'm pretty sure we are close to almost 200 people from deden who are heading over to Scotland uh for this so it's pretty that's pretty cool um and uh I think that'll be uh that'll be really exciting so uh very appreciative of all the support and uh really excited so thank you very much thank you Eric any final remarks uh yeah Eric can you how many of the city pipe band uh participants going over how many are high school students current high school students that would be traveling to Scotland one two three six or seven uh 10 maybe and will they be competing as well yes aome that's almost a pipe band all by itself just saying just planting the seed you never know we are yep that uh we are on the same page on that front if it was my call that would be a no-brainer yes sir well congratulations and we can't wait to see you over in Glasgow thanks oh uh I meant to mention one other thing sorry um on the dedan Scottish Arts Foundation we have also Ian Donaldson and I have also been in touch with um a Jory Spencer from the penel county schools and we are working at trying to present a college fair EV event this fall um to basically highlight opportunities of upper level college and Military Academy Advanced learning opportunities that have connections to piping drumming and dancing um there are a number of schools and Military acms that offer opportunities for piping drumming and dancing and um as a way to help improve the uh awareness and I guess I will say value um of the program for our families um and students we're trying to launch this as a way to not only show opportunities for uh our students who are coming into the who are in the program now but also for future students who may be considering um getting involved in the future so anyway just wanted to mention that so I just want to acknowledge Eric that while you were talking we all got calendar holds for April 5 2025 so so staff is listening awesome that is wonderful and has there been and we can talk about this offline but uh CU I was thinking about it just yesterday on trying to get some sort of representation at FMEA uh I don't know if that is in the works for this coming January uh it was obviously last year both the middle school and the high school went and played and it was awesome um a lot of that came at the um uh through the work work of the middle school band director what started off through Mr Greg Urban when he was at deden middle school and was continued um by uh Miss Hort uh when she took over there um and she did a great job and so did uh Miss Alisa and working together to bring both those bands there I would say the program was incredibly well-received at FMEA um it was a cool event I'd never been there before I thought it was a very impressive like really interesting thing and so I very hopeful that there will be more opportunities in the future I don't know at this point if there is anything moving for this coming January thank you thank you Eric thank you appreciate all the hard work okay so Jennifer did you want to give us an update I do thank you mayor vice mayor members of the commission um I asked the mayor for a little bit of time at the beginning of the meeting in order to uh address the cancellation of the uh local planning agency meeting uh yesterday uh and to just take advantage of this forum I know that folks are usually watching the B beginning of the meeting may not off towards the end but you know that's neither here nor there um so so we had yesterday a special meeting of the local planning agency scheduled uh to address and hear um the outdoor uh Hospitality initiative or ordinance and the unlawful noise Amendment clarification um that we had uh at the time that we scheduled the meeting we had confirmed five members of the local planning agency were able to attend um on Sunday morning the Sun Sunday before the meeting I was informed uh that a member of the board could not make the meeting he was ill and he is the chair of the board uh and before I carry on I want to say I wish him uh a full and complete recovery um he his illness was such that it would make it very difficult to chair a meeting um of that of that magnitude uh on that Monday evening and so um you know I have heard uh or seen some some things on social media regarding the illness of this member and um and I just wish him the best he he you know he's a good man professional uh and runs a great meeting and so I'm looking forward to to seeing him on Monday but anyway I'll talk a little bit more about that anyway on Sunday morning I was informed that he was ill and that meant that we would have only four members of the LPA on the day for that particular meeting um this would leave uh what we call in local government parli a a short board meaning a minority just only just a quorum for members of the board a short board is a problem not only um uh because it limits the input of the board it itself but also because an even number of members a 22 vote and the motion would fail and so um that could result in no recommendation at all uh to the city commission uh from the local planning Agency on minor items that's not really that big of a deal but on these items which the city some members of the committee have been working on for over a year that is a big deal uh in my mind um the go no-o was obviously a very difficult decision to make and I do want to note as well that that that decision was made by me again I have seen some messages uh that that the city commission canceled the meeting it was an administrative decision City commission did not meet they did not actively cancel that meeting um and and here's the reason why I made that decision understanding the impact in the community um the local planning agency and this is from the Land Development code section 109-102 Florida statute the LPA is a citizen Advisory Board to the city commission regarding Amendment to the Land Development code and that's important because as we've been working uh through the business resident uh uh City uh uh task force which is a sub committee if you will of the downtown task force we've been working on this for a long time but this is the citizen Advisory Board to the city commission appointed by the city commission um one member of the of the LPA has been on the BRC but the others have not and so they're hearing a lot of this information for the first time and providing their input to you for the very first time time um as a former city planner uh I hung up my hat 11 years ago as a city planner but um I take the recommendations and the input from the local planning agency which in other cities is called the planning board or the Planning and Zoning Board very seriously um as I said they are the citizen Advisory Board to the city Commission of and one of the most impactful boards um uh that that's identified in our code of ordinances the again from the code the local planning agency shall make recommendations to the city commission and other interested party concerning future development again in the code in taking a vote of the members of the local planning agency all decisions shall be made by majority vote uh and a Corum shall consist of four and so um I felt that that even though in the long-term uh it caused a great deal of controversy which is the antithesis of what a city manager wants to create but I felt in the long term a good discussion a robust discussion um at the LPA level after they've had the benefit of of public input from the community and they could then provide a very clear and decisive I think was the word we used on on um our our announcement recommendation to the city commission and I don't think that you can underestimate the importance of that input um and although I knew that there would be an immediate backlash from the community if the meeting was cancelled I did think on that Sunday morning and I still think now that the commission and the communities better served by a majority vote of the local planning agency and all the input from those members and and the public as well to the city commission um and so um from a a board that is empowered by the city commission directly so that's why I made that decision again I I would make it again uh and I apologize to the community for for some of the um some of the uh issues I know that they were ready to go uh yesterday staff was ready to go yesterday um and so I know the city commission was waiting to hear uh one of the issues we were able to um schedule the meeting for Monday July 29th so we lost a week but we're not losing any time as far as first and second reading of the city commission so uh first reading of this the ordinances will be before the city commission at special meeting here at City Hall at 6 o00 on August 1st and second reading will be September 5th here at City Hall um at 6:00 as well and so um again I apologize to the community I know that that you know the last thing we want to do is is caused any issues but I think it's important as I said that we have a good uh LPA meeting uh with as many members of the LPA that that we can get there um I think that oh oh yes I wanted to mention also that that some members uh of the community had written into the city commission through E comments we're going to copy those and have them available to I'm sorry the LPA copy those have them available to the LPA and the city commission as well if folks are not able to attend on the 29th then please uh you can make your e-c comments it's attached to the announcement that we we made and those EC comments are provided uh to the LPA and the city commission as well so um I don't know if the commission has uh any questions okay thank you very much for your time mayor thank you Jennifer all right now we'll move on to Citizen input anyone wish to come forward and speak to any item that is not already on the agenda seeing or hearing none we'll move to the consent agenda which is the approval of the minutes for June 18th and June 20th uh board and committee appointments to the LPA um Award of a oh God what is that GE service authorization task assignment for the Water Production well facilities project in the amount of $341,000 and change a purchase purchase order for Wastewater bypass pump um through a operative purchasing program at a cost of uh about 62,000 and then the knowy Broadband of Florida uh doing business as wow invoice for Skinner Boulevard undergrounding the utilities in the amount of 159,000 are there any items to be pulled c please short comments questions okay so can I have a motion to approve the the the minutes and the board and committee appointments so moved second commissioner Walker and vice mayor fry is there any comments from the public seeing or hearing none all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion passes unanimously okay item 2C which is the award of the gec service authorization task assignment in the amount of 341,000 John did you just have a question I yes I just have a couple uh very general questions very quick okay um should I go ahead y um on the the 341,000 I I I read through that discussed with a city manager um I the question that I have is just for information purposes um we have a number of wells and we've discussed this before we're going to add it we want to add an additional well well um to make sure that we have excellent water and continuation of water um the the cost of this the first part of it is $341,000 what is the expectation of the cost of actually drilling the well um and getting the well on online uh good morning mayor vice mayor and commissions good morning uh you are uh correct commissioner toet there is is um a lot uh to unpackage with this uh we have 29 Wells and we are looking to add one more to our current well field to bring it up to 30 uh this engineering contract is for the water modeling for a new well and we currently have four locations permitted and um we are going to evaluate which one of those four locations is the best and so this contract would be for the Water Production well facility project which would be you are correct drilling a new well which is about one or $1 million or so and that includes you know the Welling uh you know the testing the actual Drilling and then all the um apperances that go along with it like the pump the automation the electrical controls and then also the piping that would take the Raw water being um you know developed from the well into our raw water main system that would then take it to the reverse osmosis plant uh you know at County Road one and what St Christopher so um hopefully they answer your question so my my concern as I as I really thought about this um and we've seen this number before uh the $341,000 is a lot of money compared to the million dollars to build the well do we have to go through all of these steps the 340 I know we I know we did a bit on this I understand that and I just had to ask do we have is it is it really necessary for the 30 34,000 so it's um it's more than actual the well it's um the 341,000 is for the modeling data of which which the four Wells that we are choosing from and also is going to evaluate all city-owned properties for future Well locations um um I I don't know the number of City properties off the top of my head but um for future Wells you know for the ongoing future of the city in D Eden they're going to evaluate uh more potential locations and then it includes the design and construction services for the new well um as well will that give us the capacity then to have four should they turn out to be okay but we just choose the best and then and then later choose the second the third and the fourth so we'd have four four places worked out if we needed if we wish to build or or have another Well correct so yes the we'll we'll pick the best one and then this contract is also for uh you know to valuate all of the city owned properties for um perhaps even better locations thank you thank you mayor anybody else have any questions no talked about this with with Jorge yesterday at length Okay anybody from the public wish to speak to the item okay can I have a motion to approve so moved second commissioner Walker vice mayor frainy all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously okay commissioner purchase Wastewater bypass pump yes um we I I and I did speak with the city manager about this as well um we have a a figure here of uh whatever it is six6 62,000 okay we approv the uh the purchase of a trailer now H how many trailers or do we have significant other trailers or do we just have other facility capabilities I think we I think we have four or some number like that and this is an addition to those yes these are essentially uh trailer mounted pumps it's got the the motor and the diesel motor and the pump and it's got floats and accessories it's it's like a a mobile lift station if you will that we can use to put into a lift station if for some reason the electric or the pumps aren't working or even in a manhole if we have to when we're doing other maintenance work to bypass manholes so it's it's like a mobile lift station and we do own four currently that we bought in 2015 this this will be a fifth one um it's in the case of like a hurricane when we go without power for an extended period of time our staff literally pull these around to the different stations because every lift station has a certain holding capacity but running those routes where you're you know pumping one down and then hooking you know pulling all of your hoses and and floats and everything moving to another station hooking it up it's a very exhausting task so um this hopefully we can station a few of these at some of the more critical lift stations that don't have permanent um emergency pumping and and then the staff will still end up obviously with 42 lift stations we still have more lift stations than we have pumps and I do recall that whole procedure and so my question I guess is this the most effective way of of doing this or maybe it's the only way that currently exists and then in conjunction with that um so now we have five is five enough no five is not enough and um we're just about as a part of our uh operating permit renewal to get a a good firm number of how many in an ideal situation of these portable pumps we would have how many permanent pumps we would have at the critical lift stations and then there's some real small lift stations for instance the bathrooms at the marina that could be run off of a a much smaller generator um system so um we're going to look at that plan and say in an ideal situation what would it be whenever you buy equipment like this it's a double-edged sword they they have to be operated and maintained you you they have to be run fre some frequently they're like horses you know you have a stable of these things and and our staff do pull them out move them rotate their wheels start them up both both the mobile pumps and the generators they work them every week and so there's a sweet spot there where you have enough in an emergency but you don't have so much that it's a maintenance crisis when it's not an emergency so we're trying to find that sweet spot where we have enough to get through the emergencies but not so much that it increases our workload when there are no emergencies last last question you already touched on it how many do you think we actually need of these and and now of course that would depend if you're the if you're the uh the customer or one of our constituents who who is does not have that capacity because of the other fi being used somewhere else but um well each lift station does have a certain amount of holding capacity okay this is this is a time thing it's it's not that we're not getting the job done it's that it's very labor intensive so what we're trying to do is find the optimal amount to have that we could literally chain them at a specific lift station and not have to be rotating them around thank you um so that's the exercise we're about to we're about to do and that'll be that'll be done somewhat in probably after this season but it'll be done soon correct thank you any other questions anybody from the public wish to speak to this item okay can I have a motion so moved thank commissioner Walker and commissioner fry thank you all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously and then finally the undergrounding of the WOW broadband um first Skinner Boulevard commissioner yes I I just wanted to make a a a point about this and again I discussed this with the with the city manager um this turned out to be a very very expensive uh uh project in process um I noticed I noticed uh and and just to make a comment I noticed that we we had we had the Epic goal to create a visual sense of place throughout dun Eden um this is just creating a a sense of place in one particular area but that that that being said um the 158,000 I think was was over the 70,000 that was originally what is the total that we have spent for all of these companies that we've that we've had to pay for the undergrounding so the the um the joint user Agreements are with Verizon Frontier spectrum and wow and the actual cost is 38,9 64 what was that number 38,9 164 thank you thank you mayor any other questions uh yes um with regards to the Joint users was there ever any sort of um I mean the way I I see this and I understand the $70,000 was budgeted for uh not being undergrounded which means above ground um but I can clearly see a benefit for the joint users to include the city and everything else was there ever any discussion in this with regards to the Joint users possibly uh possibly investing in this part of it um partnering sharing the cost hey commissioner Bob myON Smith economic development director sorry I stepped out I didn't know the item got pulled so I apologize for that um yeah obviously this is a joint user which not technology there really isn't any uh ability to combine or partner like you're saying with some of the other ones that are done Frontier of course uh there there is no cost to it so they're all varying based on what their own work is so um this cost is is just part of the overall process to get the things underground uh this is using Opa money and uh from the preliminary budget we're about 165% over what the original estimate was which actually pretty good today yeah and I um yeah I I definitely got the impression during our our briefing on this particular topic yesterday that um this this has been been well documented and well negotiated um the question then is is okay there's some some of the joint users are desperately higher than others um you know and again I I I go back and it's probably more of a comment at this point but I go back to U the fact that you know it just seems to me because I clearly see there being benefit for two of The Joint users that there's not a cost share involved here but that's a comment I I I'm sure I don't understand all the rules um but anyway um I'm good thank you okay anybody else anybody from the public wish to come and speak to this item okay can I have a motion move second vice mayor frany and commissioner Walker all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion passes unanimously okay we're through consent agenda now we have the storm water advisory committee the continuance uh discussion come on down ladies welcome good morning mayor vice mayor commission City Administration Michelle Monaro I'm the environmental program manager for storm water program and um we're here today to discuss the continuance of the storm water advisory committee um so this committee has been around for 15 years and I've only been lucky enough to be part of two or three of those years um you know this committee is so vitally important to the city it acts as a soundboard for our residents we discuss storm water issues you know we discuss storm water projects and really we're able to really talk about the direction of our storm water program and it has been some of the most rewarding work that I've done so far personally and professionally um with Larry who's been our chair or St advisory chair and um and working with our residents as well so I'm going to pass it off to Larry um to talk about our storm water advisory committee thank you good morning mayor vice mayor commission uh branley um uh thank you for this opportunity to hear us and uh discuss about renewing our committee um I've been on the committee since 2016 um it's a fantastic committee um I also want to compliment um Michelle uh I think she's been a positive impact to our committee um she's informative she's personable professional um and I truly enjoy spending the time with her in our committee um one of the things that my personal observation is is our mission has twofolds one is that we provide support to the storm Water Division and we support Michelle um in her um programs also feedback to the commission and those are the two major things that I think that is helpful to this commission um this past year we have had uh numerous accomplishments it was a very busy last year um we provide provided the sac support for the storm waterer Department storm water education program obtained two grants one is for the Jolly Trolley ads on the storm water education the second is for the educational signage along the community center at the hammock Park we U discussed that and we supported that the sac reviewed and reports the final outcome of the stormwater budget for the 2024 fiscal year Michelle was very informative um and we asked a lot of questions and we supported the budget um we voted to support the stormwater park for the Sterling Park in Li of The Proposal submitted by The dunan Parks and Recreation and we were recommended a at a CommunityWide form held in January 4th 2023 and we supported renaming that Park to the Donald robling Park uh Veterans Park um we also um had a presentation from the storm water department staff on the cycle 4year 5 ms4 permit which is very important and major proponent of the storm water committee um we also visited and had comments to the septic tank tank abatement program and their efforts on the pollution in our water bodies um we also um was very important for us talking about upcoming projects with possible prioritization and recommendations and it was interesting that was um one of our motivations in the um when the rate study that was one of our recommendations was that we wanted to see and for the public but not only that for us to support your rate study and increase was that we wanted to see the prioritization and the years outlay what projects you were going to do and so to us that was one of the key proponents of our recommendation and that was followed up and Michelle submitted that to us and we reviewed it this last meeting and finally um one of the things that was came out of this was we had um a lot of community uh input this past year and that was because of the title search and storm water is very important about you know from the water we get from the rain and so forth but I gather and what I'm learning more and more every year every time we meet there's more education and we're learning more that the storm water and the engineering department work so closely together so the Baywood Shores came to our meeting and it was our recommendation to them to come back to you and to start working on way they can improve their neighborhood and I believe that was a positive outcome and that was good citizen import this past meeting we just had um from the north from the Douglas North is that what it was North Douglas um by by hammock Park they came to our committee and wanted some input and we told them some recommendations and suggestions so uh I think that was very positive for us so my um um finally my based on all the above my recommendation is to continue the storm water committee and again compliment Michelle and all of our hard work she's multifaceted grants and all that and she's she's fabulous so we're lucky to have her thank you Larry do you guys have any questions for Larry okay um anybody else from the public wish to speak all right can I have a motion to continue so move second second okay vice mayor frainy and commissioner Gaal any final comments no I mean I appreciate all the work that Larry and her committee's doing it's a great committee um I was at the last one and and you do get some good participation um and I think that as we all know up here um this issue is is a huge issue uh we're a Coastal Community and uh environmentally we've got to stay on top of a lot of things that are going on and be ahead of it and uh I think this committee adds a lot to the discussion and to the recommendation and how we move forward so definitely want you to stay no thank you um can I just make one comment is that one of the things that he did notice is um when we're working on these projects one of the things that I I'm seeing that's being missed is lack of beautification especially like on salon and Cottonwood there's this lift station that I am getting so many I saw it on social media I had it down just bring it up so I know but I I want to bring it up so that it's it's made aware that we need to beautify these areas as the neighborhood that that impacted hard from a lot of projects and I think that if you can beautify it and make it look nice I feel bad for The Neighbor Next Door to it so that's just one of the things on all these projects that you do think about beautification so commissioner uh thank you may you know there are some committees that are sexier than others and fun to be on uh we we talk about storm water though all the time as part of that infrastructure that is so vital and important to communities uh my mother uh was a long-term member on the advisory committee and even when I was a just just a resident uh she would often invite me uh to these meetings and if you haven't been to a storm water advisory committee meeting it is just a wonderful wonderful opportunity to be educated and to learn what really is going on in our community that without those committees as residents you might not even because it's all underground you really don't see it except for the ugly Parts in neighborhoods uh but it it is an incredible committee it's wonderful to hear uh how passionate the committee members are in that committee and uh the advice that they give back to the city or to listen to City staff in all their professionalism Michelle and just the education that you give back to the community so thank you so it's just one of those wonderful wonderful communities that committees that really connects Community with government so so thank you all very much commissioner Walker yes ma'am so the you know the discussion here is continuance of the storm water advisory committee and um you know the the thing that I think everybody has to keep in mind is the the the breadth and the scope that this committee covers from whether it be infrastructure whether it be education whether it be critical impact areas uh you name it and uh I have to say that um to to Echo a couple of comments um I I cannot there there may be one or two other committees that have the scope and the breadth of what they are involved with and uh but uh stormore advisory committee is most certainly in the top two and uh you know with that said the the passion uh the and specifically the knowledge and the the education that goes into this I I can't even imagine as a sitting commissioner um of not having this advisory effect to the commission so thank you for all you do and uh you guys are doing a great job thank you commissioner torga thank you Larry excellent committee very important thank you thank you commissioner well I would just like to say that I remember 15 years ago actually I thought it was lar longer bringing this the idea of this committee forward so I'm very proud of the committee because back then we were spending I don't know 20 $30 million on projects all over the city and we literally had neighborhoods fighting for projects in their neighborhood and so we formed this committee with all the different neighborhoods so they could fight it out at the committee level um so I'm glad that you guys have found it interesting and valuable so thank you very much for your work maybe we should change the name to the storm water fight club okay uh all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously thank you Jorge can we do some beautification because we really have been getting hammered about that uh Salon in that's what I've been telling people was just right just a reminder no I'm glad you did because it's been on my mind thank you all right we have resolution 24-14 our second budget amendment Jennifer would you please read that resolution by title only absolutely resolution 24-14 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Duneden Florida amending the city's operating and capital budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1 2023 and ending sep mber 30th 2024 and providing for an effective date that was resolution 24-14 read by title L thank you can I have a motion to approve so moved second commissioner Walker and vice mayor fry thank you welcome Les and Ashley good morning mayor vice mayor Commissioners uh Les Tyler the finance director and I'm here with Ashley kimson our budget manager uh this item as mentioned is uh resolution 24-14 which is amending the fiscal year 204 operating in capital budget this is budget amendment two this year and um the budget amendment in the staff report will decrease the overall Appropriations uh in various funds by 3 $3,496 th000 in 2024 the proposed amendments are on pages 2 through 10 in the Staffing report uh there's quite a few amendments here today uh and what I'd like to do is go over the key larger dollar ones and then answer any questions you might have on any of the items uh as we walk through it uh nearly all of these have been presented and included in a prior Commission meeting and I'll start with the general fund uh the first item is an increase in the tree Bank expense of $267,000 this would is is to be used on the dunen golf course restoration project uh the amount will come from the restricted Tree Bank fund and have no net impact on available fund balance and this item was presented to Commission on December 12 2023 item 1B the next item in the general fund is uh an increase in expenditures budget by $175,000 for the purchase of Meridian barriers uh there's an offsetting transfer in from the risk fund for this item of 87,500 so this was being purchased by the risk fund and the general fund and that reduces the general fund uh fund balance by $887,500 the next item we wanted to mention is in the Penny fund and that is uh item H which is an increase in the Highland re Aquatic Complex budget of $98,400 this was an amount transferred from the arpa fund to in order to reduce the project in the arpa fund to that of design cost only the construction another expenses will be budgeted in the penny fund uh for the uh pool moving forward and that result in a decrease to fund balance in the penny fund and that item was presented to the city Commission on January 11th 2024 next item in the penny fund is a transfer of $2,985 th000 in capital expense budget from the Skinner Boulevard Improvement project to the Highlander aquati complex project and that was due to the timing constraints of the arpa funding uh for the construction timing of the Highlander Aquatic Complex and this resulted in no F no change in fund balance to the penny fund and this item was presented to the city Commission on February 20th 2024 item 3C the next item is uh a decrease in the hoer Aquatic Complex of 575,000 and broaded C cable project 42,000 and this uh and the golf restoration project in the arpa fund uh we determined during the year that we uh that for the golf course restoration fund we uh we we move the grant dollars to the Golf to the golf golf operations fund the Enterprise fund uh during the year and this this transfer is making that happen from the Opera fund to the golf operations fund and this item was presented to the city Commission on December 12th 2023 item 1B the next item we wanted to mention is the uh Skinner Boulevard uh Skinner Boulevard project we uh we had an incre increase in the expenditure budget of $1 milon 9,000 and a decrease in the broadband internet fial cabling project in the amount of $615,000 this was due to we had uh increased big cost for the Skinner Boulevard project and this resulted uh the net effect of this was a decrease in in arpa fund balance of 394,000 and this item was presented to the city Commission on June 18th 2024 item 3A and that was additional funding for Skinner Boulevard project the next is a CRA fund and this is uh the item here is to was to reduce and reclass the expenditure budget in the CRA fund for Skinner Boulevard from uh 3.2 million uh down to $12,000 uh this is due to the increased contribution to the project by by fot and also forward pelis and oura funds on the Skinner Boulevard project this resulted in a net increase in fund balance in the CRA fund of 3 million $173,000 and this item was presented to the city Commission on February 20th 2024 item 3C we had one other adjustment in CRA and that was we had an increase in the Skinner Boulevard project cost of $584,000 and that was due to increased cost of the construction bid that came in uh this resulted in a decrease to the cra's fund balance of 584,000 and this item was uh presented City Commission on June 18 2024 the next fund we wanted to mention is and again I'm trying to cover the highlights here is uh the golf operations fund the we had an increase in arpa grant funding this is the other side of the transaction I men mentioned earlier we had an increase in arpa grant funding in the golf operations fund of 2,900 $77,000 and also a capital expense of the same amount and that was for uh transferring funds from arpa to the gulf fund uh and I mentioned earlier it was deemed that we wanted to move those dollars to the uh Enterprise fund and the reason for that was is we for financial reporting purposes once the project is complete we want the we want the asset to be in the golf operations fund and uh and be and depreciated in that fund and we also also in this item we also had an additional increase in uh revenue for the golf operations project of $500,000 uh we that was the Florida state historic preservation grant that was not in our original budget but was added with this budget amendment and the changes to this have no net impact on the golf fund's net position and then last one we wanted to cover was in the risk fund this was the other side of the purchase of the uh Meridian barricades of 175,000 we transferred out 8 87,500 from the risk fund to the general fund to pay for half of half of those uh barriers and that item was presented on January 23rd 2024 and wanted to point out the last page in the Staffing we always show the available fund balance uh with the with the impact of these uh amendments and if you look at Exhibit C the very last page it shows the projected fund balance at the end of 20 24 and all the funds are meeting or exceeding the reserve targets with the exception of the CRA fund the CRA fund is under the 15% Reserve but we but still has adequate fund balance projected for the end of 24 that concludes our highlights and happy to answer any questions thank you questions for [Music] Les I had one question uh just um the the Marina boat that was delegated authority was that did we know that needed to be replaced did it get damaged and then it got replaced or yeah yeah yeah we knew it needed to be replaced and uh it it was in our budget but when we when we budgeted it we did not we budgeted the net expense we did not budget the revenue coming in from the other party so it was really an accounting thing to show that we're spending this much but we're going to be receiving this this net amount from uh from the the other agency okay yeah little history so when I was in risk management here that boat they kept the the motor kept going underwater it was just not being taken care of and we must have replaced it three or four times so when I saw that I'm like okay I need to know is this just a normal wear and tear or something special so thank you for that anybody else yes ma'am uhuh so we have the we have this delegated authority issue um not issue sorry Point um and so we don't report the the when someone has when it's under the delegated authority correct we normally don't report that normally that's reported to us in our quarterly report that Jennifer's team puts together for us but it's not as a BU as a as a uh uh in this report we don't we don't see that right how much how much how of how how often uh are those changes made and how many are there do you suppose in a given year uh I couldn't give you an exact number but every quarter we have a certain number of items that fall under the delegated authority uh in between 25 and 50,000 we have uh you know it varies every quarter I bring that up I bring that up solely because I look at this and I know this has been uh brought up a number of times up here on the Das by people saying hey wait a minute you know we have so many budget amendments and they're so they're so large and in the end they get all added up we hear of them one here and one here at a meeting and one here at another meeting I just wanted to point out that's a that's a big number and there's a lot of them so there's lots of changes being made yeah there's there's quite a few you know the when I look at the funds just real quickly the you know the mo a couple of funds the arpa and CRA had increases in fund balance but the other ones had a a decreases which is the normal normally normally it's a decrease in fund balance but um but yeah there there's quite a few uh quite a few adjustments a lot of these were due to uh moving oper money around as you all know you know we're trying we we've had trying to fun make you know sh up projects when the when the bids come in and also just making sure that we we move the dollars and spend the Opera dollars you know due to the timeline so I'd say about a third of these are are sort of related to that topic you know I was attempting to find out if there was a Tren TR here if there was something happening in here and it and and I agree I I understand there was lots of comments about arpa but there was a lot of money moving around U due to due to uh some in a number of increases that hadn't been accounted for etc etc so I just want to bring that out as a point Thank you thank you thank you anybody else anybody from the public wish to speak to this item okay roll call vote commissioner gal hi commissioner TGA hi commission vice mayor fry I commissioner Walker I mayor bajowski I and that motion passes unanimously thank you thank you guys and then we have the proposed agenda for August 6 anybody have any changes um mayor on item 2G the settlment agreement um says Brian Riley but actually that should say Lewis say it again on it it says Brian Riley and it should be what Lewis oh okay so you'll fix that yes all right any other updates or changes okay can I have a motion to approve some move second okay commissioner gal and commissioner Walker all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion passes unanimously all right so before we get into the golf cart program final report let's take a quick break and we'll come back good to me [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to our uh July 23rd work session and we will move on to the golf cart program update welcome thank you mayor vice mayor Commissioners George Kenny on behalf of Community Development um this has really been kind of a a a project of love for us we we we really enjoyed working through this over the last year and we were um uh very lucky to have Robert here with Benish to support us through this effort um you know just by way of background you all know what this is about it's really an examination of our existing program and how we can improve upon that program uh potentially open up other areas for Access uh potentially look at some additional Crossings um so Robert's going to kind of has a presentation he going to work through that for you um certainly if you have as part of this presentation there is a a a draft recommendation on the priority uh certainly if you have some thoughts on those those priorities or ideas to move things around then we are certainly open to that and would welcome that um before I turn it over to Robert though I very quickly wanted to recognize the stakeholder group that worked with us through this entire process and just kind of recognize them by name I don't see any in here today which we thought we might have a few of them but um I did want to just kind of note these folks and thank them for their uh service to this program uh Andy P Andy py uh was a member of the group Trevor Davis from from the city was a member uh we had from fdot emth Duran and Joe Ellen Guthrie uh we also have penis County represented James Cannon uh the pelis County Sheriff's Office was represented and thank you to to Tom Goldberg uh Mark Walters from our traffic committee was part of the program update uh we also had Sue beress and Communications Joseph deasa uh Nicole Delino um and Natalie gas on the sustainability side uh special thanks to Jorge who I think is left who was helping us out from the public work side uh and then from from our consultant engineer we had Jerry dudkowski and Chris brimo uh and of course I'd be REM remiss if I did not thank Kathy gader who's sitting behind me who was the project manager through the entire uh the entire program uh update um with that I'm going to step aside and let Robert go ahead and walk through the program and recommendations and then we're certainly happy to take questions at the end if you're when all right thank you George um a little bit about our agenda today um I'll do a little bit of introductions on myself um provide some background on what this project was what were we scope to do and what um how did we do it uh and then get right into our uh recommendations starting with policy and then moving into our operating Zone recommendations so a little background about myself you have already met me um once last year but um I just wanted to share uh Robert modies I'm a project manager with Benish um we are a civil engineering and planning firm um that does kind of work uh nationally I am a city planner and transportation planner by trade and this has been a really really fun project to work on I love getting these kind of um very different projects where you kind of have to be really out of the box um this has been a really wonderful City to work in the public has been wonderful um you all have been great um everybody that George and uh Kathy have mentioned uh so far that helped us out along this have been really really wonderful so this is has been a really great opportunity and I do appreciate it so a little of our project background so what is this project um at a high level uh like George mentioned this is a comprehensive look at your golf cart program and different elements that affect it so uh starting with a regulatory and document review we looked at um pertinent State and County regulations as well as your local program regulations that you have adopted um we looked at relevant Master plans you've got a transportation master plan a sustainability master plan to see uh where have golf carts been mentioned and if so how can we make sure that that's um addressed in this plan as well um on the program evaluation we also took a look at charging and parking of golf carts um some best practices from across the state and across the country uh looking at fdot Crossings and compliance we know that that is definitely um the biggest uh sticking point for the program is that you need permission to cross these major fdot roads so we wanted to make sure that our recommendations were broadly in line with those um when we did start this project you were doing registrations so we went and looked at the registration Trends over time just to see how popular the program was and then um just kind of a reminder uh these recommendations it's a planning level review um to go ahead and Implement um these recomend or most of these recommendations especially pertaining to operating zones there's additional engineering review required um that would be traffic studies that would be um you know making sure that uh speed and volume is compatible with expansion of golf carts um there are engineering standards that you do have to follow so this is at a um kind of a planning level high level these are things that we think work um and here's the degree to which we think they work and um go ahead and Tackle them in that order I believe Cathy did you want to do this or do you want me to do this one all right um public engagement was a big part of this um denan is uh what was so cool about this project was how involved um residents were uh we don't often get that which was really really great and we think that helped shape this project um at a high level we did that internal stakeholder working group that George mentioned um kind of multi-disciplinary uh meeting with them initially to kind of introduce the project and then again at the end to introduce these recommendations um we even did make some changes based off that feedback from that group so that was really invaluable um we did an online survey that was advertised for a couple months um it got just over 2,000 responses which is a really really really impressive response rate um for any kind of Municipal survey of any kind um so that was really great uh Heard lots of uh perspectives on uh positive and negative on golf carts and we're able to incorporate some of that uh we also had a public meeting here um at City Hall uh in person that had about 150 people attend again really great feedback from that um and heard a lot of really great ideas from the public uh we have presented at one now two commission meetings and also at the um local planning agency where we heard some feedback on um you know some specific recommendations here and there ask you know could we look at accessing this grocery store or that location um which we went ahead and um vetted to see what was uh workable and what wasn't um based off of kind of City Limits so um on to policy recommendations these are your kind of not uh shovels in the ground kind of recommendations so um starting out with education we heard a lot about about education and enforcement um about safety about compliance those sorts of things so our first tier on recommending um how to address those concerns from the public is on um education materials right now you guys have a great public um relations or public Outreach group um here at the city and so we're recommending that they go ahead and update those General materials um website Maps making sure that those are up to dat with what um the latest and greatest statute is and what the program looks like today um from there we're also recommending to draft some targeted materials we heard a lot about individual behaviors and individual concerns so things like uh teen drivers that are not permitted to be on a golf cart by themselves we heard a lot about Behavior both uh cart drivers and how drivers interact with golf carts when they're just passing maybe a little bit too closely um so developing some targeted materials for those kinds of individual behaviors as well it's a great way to you know get that out there a PSA here and there maybe some printed materials that can be handed out to businesses on hand here at City Hall that sort of thing um once those are complete we really recommend um denan has a lot of really great events in the downtown that are really well attended so attend existing events things like parades and distribute those education materials have somebody on hand from staff at um selected events that can answer questions about golf carts and kind of get some of that fact finding out there another thing that we're recommending is either the city itself or teaming with another organization on um a kind of a drivers Academy golf cart safety course this is something that would be completely voluntary but a fun way to engage the public and get some education out there uh it could be held in an existing event um you could team up with local businesses on if you participate in this program here is the opportunity to um you know receive some kind of uh an incentive perhaps being um you know entered into a drawing for business gift card to a local business that sort of thing just kind of an out of thebox creative way to engage folks and kind of keep that local community feelg going um within education moving on to enforcement working um with the worker uh stakeholder working group we did learn that the sheriff's office is already kind of tracking incidents involving golf carts it's not limited to the denan city limits it includes some of the nearby areas because it's based off of the Sheriff's Office zoning but um we were able to get that information and it was really great information to have we um it includes uh any kind of interaction that the sheriff's office has with somebody involving a golf cart in any way so they look at uh stops warnings um tickets arrests and um they also kind of look at some of the other um factors of what went in there and we think that regularly requesting that information at a staff level from um the sheriff's office is a really great practice to kind of keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on with golf carts is this kind of staying about the same are there Trends are there opportunities if um we're peing in December is that an opportunity to Target some education um and kind of going from there um on some of this great available data that they're already collecting we're also recommending a high visibility enforcement campaign so you recently had one along the pelis trail so you may be familiar with the concept it's uh very popular in traffic safety um what it does is it's targeting behaviors related to cart safety this could be uh dangerous cart driving this could be somebody rolling a stop sign moving violation that sort of thing and it could also be if an officer Witnesses somebody doing something dangerous in a vehicle around a golf cart what this does is it focuses on warning and education not citations the idea is to an officer um has an interaction with you says hey this is not the appropriate way here's a written warning and here's a pamphlet on um you know the appropriate behavior in a golf cart uh it gets really great on the street and reminds people that um the sheriff's office is out there there are rules to the program and that uh you know if you don't follow them there are um you know natural outcomes to that that is something that we did talk to Ford pelis about they were very interested in the idea and recommended that the city um if you do move forward with that program um that there's potential grant funding from Ford panels to uh cover all our part of that so on a policy recommendation you'll kind of see when we get into the operating zones but I wanted to talk a little bit about low speed vehicle conversion um right now we're recommending that the um City see what you can do about making it maybe easier to convert to a low-speed vehicle a golf cart has functionally most of the same equipment as a low-speed vehicle most of the golf carts even if they're not registered have a lot of this safety equipment you can see in the chart you have a golf cart per Florida statute compared to a low-speed vehicle really the difference between a golf cart and a low-speed vehicle to most people is tail lights brake lights turn signals a horn a windshield um one mirror versus two mirrors um and seat belts uh Mo a lot of golf carts are already sold with those features but they're not sold as low speed Vehicles which is a titled and registered vehicle with a vehicle identification number um what we're recommending is right now you to convert your golf cart to a lowp speed vehicle and we heard this quite a bit in the survey that folks are interest interested but it is it is kind of a pain you have to load your vehicle up take it to Hillsboro County to be inspected um so you would need to have a vehicle large enough to put your golf cart in you would need to find time to get out there it's um definitely a uh a hassle so what we're recommending is pursue a uh popup registration event and conversion event where those inspections might be able to be on a one-time basis held here at City Hall um that could be a really neat opportunity to kind of open up some of these benefits which as mentioned there's that additional safety equipment um that the carts may or may not have but per Florida statute aren't required to have so anything um to add safety equipment is always a wonderful thing on any vehicle um but it also provides you the ability to operate on any 35 mph or slower Road um of any roadway jurisdiction that means um there are no real operating restrictions beyond that speed limit you're also able to Cross Roads with a high speed and volume than that um so that means that you're no longer restricted to individual Crossing so for those that have the means to do so it really is the uh simplest way to go about expanding that operating Zone um and we'll get into a little bit more of those uh limitations on the operating Zone in a second um really the primary downside to it is potentially higher Insurance costs a golf cart tends to be on your homeowner's insurance policy and a low-speed vehicle is a titled and registered vehicle so it does need um insurance as if it were a vehicle so just to kind of illustrate that point on the left you've got the current Golf Cart Zone Map you can see um our uh permited Crossings in kind of that uh Golden Rod color the uh other golden color and yellow color yellow green color those are landlock neighborhood access red are areas that you cannot access or uh don't have free access for example hammock park has a way to get there but you can't have full access of the park and the blue is the operating area on the right um is keeping those same areas but changing the color of the roads you can see that you are allowed to be on many many more streets because it's any Street 35 M hours or slower if you're in a low-speed vehicle so that opens up um part of uh County Road 1 it opens up part of Virginia part of um Patricia uh it opens up Union Street it even opens up a um a portion of Bayshore and towards the South there um where it's designated as Edgewater Drive um of course not everybody has the means and not everybody should have to and so we're recommending some operating um improvements that also benefit golf carts but I just wanted to illustrate just how much of a difference having a registered and titled low-speed vehicle makes um and to kind of a lay person they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a golf cart and a lowp speed vehicle but um most golf carts can be converted to a low speed vehicle so we just wanted to kind of illustrate that point as we move into our um through the rest of the presentation on another policy recommendation we were asked to look at parking um and so one thing that we're recommending um we heard a lot from the public let us uh share parking spaces so two c two carts to a parking space the way your Z or your code is written now that is permitted but it's not very well known so what we're recommending is go ahead do a pilot program promoting that behavior in selected spaces in downtown so um select some spaces maybe uh put a hash line down the center put a sign up that says splitting permitted this space with golf carts on it really draw attention to the fact that this is something that uh can be done and really the benefit Beyond um effectively doubling your parking capacity in those spaces is that you reduce that vehicle owner frustration that we heard a lot about in the survey that when they're going downtown and they get and they think they found the greatest parking space they've ever seen and there's one golf cart in it if there were two that might go a long way towards reducing some of that frustration from folks who just aren't interested in participating in the program so you kind of get um two really big benefits out of that pilot program other policy recommendations we were asked to look at some items that um would be addressed to the Land Development code which just had uh the rewrite internal kickoff yesterday so these are things that would be implemented as part of that process process uh a sales and rental use in the downtown so you have a really great compact walkable downtown so we wanted to kind of be sensitive to that as far as what that sales and rental use looks like so functionally we're recommending a showroom only um no significant outdoor storage of vehicles and no on-site repair so we wanted to make sure that these were uh this was still a use where um you're not detracting from what makes downtown denan really great is that it's not car oriented and so we wanted to kind of introduce that so that is a golf cart and low speed vehicle sales and rental use downtown only um recommendation for a new use in your zoning code we're also looking at codifying parking dimensional standards at 6t X 12T that's pretty standard um some or or some agencies will have a shorter spot than 12 feet um those are typically from our best practice review they are contemplating kind of that classic two-seater golf cart with clubs in the back much much shorter wheelbase now people are moving into these three three row um golf carts that are you know much bigger so 12 ft accommodates that and it gives um some flexibility for developers if they're constructing um parking spaces just for golf carts we're not recommending um many paths as part of this there is pretty constrained RightWay in denan but we did um think that it would be a good idea to go ahead and codify that as well so we're recommending a 12T minimum with a 14t preferred um that provides you some room for these to be kind of shared facilities where you need them and it gives you an opportunity to um still allow for that shared use safely and golf carts to pass one another we're also looking at parking reductions in downtown so you right now have a a very generous Suite of parking reductions for developments within your downtown core um we are recommending up to 50% of required parking we feel that that um while it sounds like a lot when you go ahead and look at that zoning code and look at those available parking reductions it's very much in line with um what is there now of course that should uh tie into your Land Development code rewrite process which I'm sure is going to take a look at some of those parking reductions as well but um just as the context of this report that is our recommendation charging that was one that we heard a lot about and I would say that that was probably the one um that we had the most disperate responses uh in the survey um and in the um just the per public Workshop as well uh folks who have an electric golf cart would love to charge it for free um somewhere in the city folks who have a gasoline powered golf cart or no golf cart are very very opposed to it um so what we wanted to do was look at it not from a um Quant or from a qualitative standpoint but from a quantitative standpoint so when we developed that survey we asked a question what is your typical trip length on a golf cart we also went ahead and we um looked at a couple of you would call them almost worst casee scenario if you lived at one northeast corner of the city you wanted to go visit your friend in the Southeast corner and you had to follow the program as it stands today that kind of circuitous going through the different Crossings and all of that we went and looked at what those roundt trips would look like um and then we compared those to the typical electric cart range what we found is that there's not really a significant need for public charging infrastructure to the point that there is a actual City policy that we're going to have this many charging stations per cart uh or what have you that we would similarly do for electric vehicles um further we had initially planned on using the uh light poles which have power to them for um you know Christmas lights and that sort of thing and your uh franchise agreement with Duke Energy does not permit that today uh it doesn't mean that it's not something that you can look at in the future when that comes up for uh renegotiation in the future but today it doesn't permit that we just did it we just did it so that's so maybe in 10 years I'm not sure what that duration is but long time right exactly so our recommendation given all of this information we wanted to be sensitive to kind of what it looked like on the ground especially since we got such disperate feedback from the public on it is really no formal action at this time um continue to explore those future opportunities for example City Hall has a station uh the library has a station uh if there are improvements that say you do an improvement to a park that would be a really great time for you to add that infrastructure but as a policy not requiring it um and go ahead and through your kind of sustainability efforts you have a great sustainability team here encourage those private charging facilities if a business really would like to have it and that's a kind of a a niche for them to drive folks to their you know to their restaurant or what have you in the downtown area um go ahead and encourage them um and any way that you can but from a broad level um no formal action on a charging program based off of our review so moving on to our operating recommendations so these are probably the ones that you're the most interested in and the public would be the most interested in um our scope was focusing on road expansions and new Crossings we also looked at um some neighborhood access to eliminate some of those islands where possible um again like I mentioned this is planning level uh the planning level is going and saying that your uh degree of light or your um your likel of success on a low medium or high scale that is kind of to the point that we went we uh you know didn't have the resources to go ahead and uh put um tubes out and get upto-date traffic counts that you would need um or perform a speed study um those are things that you would need to do in the future because an engineer would ultimately sign and seal um these changes and uh that is based on their licensing so there are basic regulations that they do need to follow so just keep that in mind mind um as I mentioned um that planning level looks at it from a short to long-term recommendation um and that's based off of that varying degree of likelihood just because something is unlikely to be successful today doesn't mean that it shouldn't be pursued in the future Den need in of 2014 looks a lot different than den of 24 and it will probably look a lot different than 34 so we wanted to make sure that we were still incorporating those even if they're not likely to happen tomorrow so starting with neighborhood access we looked at four individual neighborhoods and I'll show you individually each in the coming slides um on how could if these neighborhoods were interested in participating in the program how could uh new public Crossings or in some cases where public Crossings just don't work because of Road geometry the size speed volume of the roads um how privately constructed entrances could look uh neighborhood engagement would be needed for these um you certainly wouldn't want to go to a neighborhood and say we're building an entrance into your neighborhood that's certainly not what we're recommending this is an opportunity that if these neighborhoods were really interested in um being brought into the uh program something that you would want to um go ahead and engage them on so starting with den and Isles um this is three potential um new Crossings you can see the north one is M Vista we've got San Jose as an option and S Salvador drive as an option uh there was previously a Crossing there that fdot removed due to um a too high of traffic volume so this is one that we're recognizing um as a medium likelihood of success because a variance would likely be needed due to that volume but um definitely something that we think should still be on the radar denan Village um this is kind of an interesting one because it's on the edge of that city limit you can kind of see that pink line there as the city limit if you're on the right of that line you're an unincorporated if you're on the left of that line you're in denan so what this would be is looking at um how can the city support um if this community were really interested in accessing um the program via Salon um that would probably need to be done with a private entrance that they would construct what can the city do from an administrative standpoint to support them um making sure that you know engineering staff is working with them on you know what would be a way to accomplish this so we've got a couple of those in here so it's not um the city expending funds on a private entrance it's the city um making sure that the engineering resources here are approaching it kind of with an open mind and um looking at you know what can we do from an engineering standpoint to support you should it be something you're interested in doing with your community Palm Lake Village uh this is another pretty large um you know kind of uh landlock neighborhood only area uh what we're looking at as far as what would be public would be a new Crossing at coach light way however it's very close to the crossing at or the stoplight at Salon a which means that it's got a pretty low likelihood of success just because there's engineering standards for Signal spacing and Crossing spacing so the alternative access would be private access in that northeast corner of the neighborhood closer to the um spring training facility again that's a private funding with City coordination um just if this is something that they were interested in constructing that the city is there um but the lens of our Pro from our scope of work and our project was to look at what can we do to eliminate some of these um landlocked areas so that would be the the best way moving forward to do that Spanish Trails this is a public Crossing um at Hickory Gate Drive likely would be a traffic signal um this is a fairly large area so um we uh you know you do need to meet warrant standards to add a new traffic signal but given the size of that Community we think that you might meet that warrant um and it also is in line um from a precedent standpoint with what you see on Michigan Boulevard to the South there and so by doing so they would be able to cross um across cr1 and then access the rest of the community that way and make their way down towards Michigan so here are our standard kind of operating recommendations that we think have a high to moderate likelihood of success these are your um shorter term um recommendations you know once uh this plan is adopted if these are uh you know kept into the plan um these are things that your growth management folks and your Public Works folks would then start programming into their budget um when that uh you know next budget season starts so we're going to look at Patricia Union Skinner and Virginia icha so this is uh slide one of two for Patricia so looking at Patricia Avenue um this is uh the segment between Virginia and Admiral you wouldn't want to go all the way to Main street because there's nowhere to cross at Main Street uh so the Zone would uh end at Admiral and what that does is it um provides access to a grocery store which is a uh definitely a steep climb in dened most of your grocery stores are surrounded on all sides by uh very large roads that are not compatible with golf carts uh Main Street uh parts of cr1 curu um Alt 19 so this is one that would be able to be accessed through there um and then it would be the first of three segments the other segments are basically um Virginia South to Union Street there is what we heard in the survey kind of a confusing operating Zone there with that Crossing it Manor Drive you're allowed on parts of Patricia you're not allowed on other parts we think that that certainly it hurts compliance and it hurts the predictability of the Golf Cart Zone as well which could increase some frustration for both golf cart drivers and Vehicle drivers so we're recommending um going ahead and uh you know performing that speed study that volume study to make sure or confirm or uh not confirm that this is a safe expansion for golf carts but we feel that this would be a really great um opportunity with a high likelihood of success we also at the public meeting met a um Elementary School teacher who she and her husband um currently have two cars and a golf cart they would love to get rid of one of the cars and she'd love to be able to go to work on that golf cart but right now thean Elementary is in landlocked area so this would also allow access to um that school which is a really neat feature for our teachers and for families that attend that school as well Virginia Street in AA way so this is your East West we talked about Patricia over in the same vicinity north to south so east to west here um you have another break in the um program there that can be a little bit confusing to folks um heard a little bit about that at the public meeting and um in the survey as well so we wanted to look at what we could do to uh make that a little bit clearer um this would be allowing those one and two segments to uh you know permit golf carts you would need to have a Crossing approved by the county at cr1 um right there and uh once you do that you get on to aiva AA is a great Road for golf carts 30 mph speed limit um lots of communities over there and um a really great Park uh that would take you to sh uh the only way you could get to Main Street that um number four is if you included a Crossing there a new Crossing across Main Street uh you'll c i labeled Publix Publix was the one thing we heard about it wasn't just grocery stores it was Publix um and we looked at the two Publix as in city limits this one um on that corner of cr1 and uh Main Street it's uh landlocked behind it there is just really no way for a golf cart to safely access um that public so that was one that we looked at because we specifically heard about that so much folks would really like to go to a grocery store it's Florida of course they'd really like to go to Publix so that is something that we did look at specifically and just that surrounded by neighborhoods there with no connectivity into Publix there's no Back Road in is very difficult so Union Street this is one that uh we have kind of late in the game heard a lot about there's a couple of communities down there that really really would like to be um included in the golf cart program so we um looked at some alternatives to access them but in the long run we really think that uh Union Street might be a good opportunity for um expansion uh our understanding is that the city of clear water is looking into a golf cart program um and so this would be something that uh because it's on your uh you know Southern corporate limit you would need to work with the city of Clearwater to make sure that your uh goals align there since the road is effectively shared um and if clear water doesn't allow golf carts you certainly want wouldn't want to send them that way that might be some uh you know interjurisdictional frustration so um what we're recommending is looking at expanding from um Edgewater Drive on the west all the way over to um prominade drive on the East you see that stops just short of cane because one um you're not really able to operate a golf cart on cane and two um that is your Eastern corporate limit so there is nowhere to go east of that because you can only allow golf carts within your um City it's uh your golf cart program not unincorporated uh the reason why this is a medium likelihood of success is beyond that inner jurisdictional coordination is that Union is a pretty Wide Open Road it's got pretty low volume so that means it has pretty um High observed speeds and so you would want to make sure that you're performing that engineering study to make sure that Union is an appropriate Road and if it's not what can you do um if anything to make it a more appropriate Road from a uh you know kind of a traffic mixing standpoint for gol carts Skinner Boulevard I think you guys are really familiar with this one um you have a really great complete streets project underway there and uh you've got an existing Crossing at uh bass and Maine there what we're recommending is what staff is already pursuing with fot which is two new Crossings at those two new roundabouts at Douglas and Highland um this is underway but we wanted to make sure that this was in your um plan uh just because it's another uh kind of show of support for this effort that I understand that you're still negotiating with fdot so these are our low likelihood of success um operating recommendations these are the ones that while they would be really big ticket items there is the reality that a golf cart is a slower vehicle um you are constrained by Florida statute in some cases you're constrained by the roadway Network um having pass to get through um but we heard about these so much from the public so we did want to make sure that these are in here as um long-term goals so I'm going to skip to this one first and then go to the other one because I meant to put this one first uh curu road you can see this is kind of a um kind of a long road to go um you've got number one is a path that kind of hugs the border of um denan Country Club there is a uh existing bridge that you could cross to get across the creek um a new Crossing at Trade Winds Drive there is a new um pedestrian Crossing being installed there at Tradewinds Drive or has been installed there um from there number two is a fully separated path from the pelis trail number three is that Crossing to get you up to that Publix across curo and then number four is a potential path a um shared golf cart path on that north side of curu road and so I'll go in kind of what each individual element of that put this into that low likelihood of success the um denting uh Country Club as you know is being uh revamped right now um this is not contemplated as part of those plans the timing just didn't line up um so that is your first hurdle probably not the biggest hurdle because it is a city-owned facility and you are following kind of that outward boundary of it so um a little bit easier than maybe some of the other issues uh penel Trail we know the penel trail is a treasured facility um not just in denan but in the county and in the region um and so it is uh very important to be sensitive to the pelis trail so right now uh the golf cart program crosses the pelis trail in plenty of spaces but those are streets um this you know that is the standard if you can drive a golf cart on the street you can cross the pelis trail on that this would be the only golf cart only crossing of the pelis trail which makes it extra sensitive from a design standpoint and from a public engagement standpoint from there um moving to the north designing that fully separate path there're certainly right of way there's certainly some great visual impediments there's some really nice tree canopy over there that could keep those paths completely separate um but again that becomes kind of that discussion with the public that um what this is and that it's not a shared use of the panel Trail there is certainly no appropriate opportunity for shared use of pel trail with golf carts and not something we've recommended um from there your curu drive your number three at Al 19 uh that intersection is actively being redesigned um by fdot already um from a timing standpoint and then uh number four the um fdot design manual does allow for um golf cart path to be within their right of way but right now they're pretty sensitive to um to that use of their right of way and so that would be kind of another um big discussion with fdot that you would need to have so for those reasons we give this kind of a low likelihood of success but because there's so much public demand for it we do think it's important that it stays in the plan as kind of a long-term recommendation going a little bit backwards there now that we've talked about that Crossing it Tradewinds Drive um we hear a lot about one eliminating some of this red um some of this area within the city that golf carts are not really able to um operate in and um of course getting out to Honeymoon Island because who wouldn't want to ride a golf cart out to Honeymoon Island um this would have that same conflict with the pelis trail with that uh golf cart only Crossing at trade winds in addition um you can see that there is that dashed box that is where the uh Sheriff substation is and a I believe a Wells Fargo that is essentially that business's parking lot it's not a public way as far as we're aware um and so the city really can't say go use this private land to cut your golf cart through so that would be your first major hurdle there um but certainly not unheard of to get kind of a cross access easement or Public Access easement and a and a road way like that so from that standpoint not the not the biggest issue I'd say the biggest issue is on Causeway Boulevard you've got really high volume and observe speeds um that roadway is either extremely congested on the weekends and in the winter on a really nice day or it is very very fast and so we know that you know golf carts because they just cannot drive as fast as a vehicle that's a pretty big conflict to be sensitive to and then the um the basket bridge is also being redesigned right now now and our understanding from information from um the uh Engineers here at the city is that the grade is likely too steep for golf carts to be able to access so um again uh we don't know what the future looks like but um we wanted to make sure that this was in here as a long-term goal just because there was so much public support and so um so much public demand for it so we wanted to go ahead and look at it in detail to see what can we do to make this work if anything and this is the um the best result that we could get um for that so full Alt 19 access um this is one of course people want to be on um Alt 19 you know edgew water beore beautiful beautiful Sunday Drive Scenic Drive great way to get out um right now it's a um fdot roadway which again they're a little bit more sensitive to golf carts than other organizations might be um it also especially as you get north towards curu has a pretty high speed in volume up posted speed observed speed and high uh traffic volumes as well um we certainly see some potential south of Main Street as far as a long-term goal but certainly think that including it as a long-term goal altogether is important just because it is such a you know a really nice drive and something that a lot of folks asked for and then finally um for our operating Zone recommendations um you're familiar that um you know Monroe Street is the way to get a golf cart to denan um Marina it is certainly um we we heard a lot of feedback that people don't feel safe using it that it's not a comfortable Crossing um and on top of that it's circuitous it's out of the way if you weren't familiar with where you were going you wouldn't know it was there so um what we heard a lot was that people want to go to the marina I believe it was our number one destination individually that folks were wanting to get to in their golf cart um and so we think at a at a long term um opening up just that portion of Main Street between downtown and the marina is should be a long-term goal of the city to continue working with fdot towards even though the traffic volume is a bit High there um the posted speed limit is very low I believe it's 25 um and so there is some I think some opportunity there to um in the long run pursue a variance but in the short run do what you can to improve Monroe Street to make it a more comfortable Crossing in the Anum as well as some potential for some better way finding to help folks get there as well that concludes our Pro our um presentation and I know that you all took a lot of notes and I'm happy to jump back to any slide you need me to okay questions vice mayor wow I yeah I've got a lot swirling um one thing um with all the the um scenarios you did um how many of those actually go away if you have a low speed vehicle what do you mean well some of them it appears that we'd be if um well let me see there it is like Virginia Street in AA like if you have a low speed vehicle you can go that route but if you have a golf cart you can't per uh Florida statute any road 35 M hour and less um a low- speed vehicle can C or can be can be Prov afforded access uh and that is Florida statute it has nothing to do with your program um and it is entirely afforded through Florida statute okay what is the speed there though my understanding is that um 35 on that segment of Virginia and then achieve is 30 so if you had a low- speed vehicle by state law you could go yes ma'am so that was kind of my point um you know it looks like maybe over 50% of these are not an issue if if people have a low speed vehicle that's precisely why we wanted to recommend um ways to make it easier for folks who may not have a great big truck with a ramp um to get their vehicle out to um Hillsboro County opportunities to make that easier for folks because it really does broaden um what you can do with functionally the same vehicle obviously it does need to be retrofitted in many cases but these are not we're not repowering it it's not a complicated retrofit okay but we could you know kind of separate these into hey if you get a low speeed vehicle here's here's the route you can go absolutely if you don't here's the route you can go I think that would actually be good because again like I look at where do we want to put our money on this kind of stuff too you know um so and I get it because I converted from a golf cart to a low speed vehicle and actually think we did okay on insurance and so potentially you know there can be some working together on how to achieve the insurance issues with people as well so um okay uh let's see um so in terms of um what we were allowed this might be George um with the sales and rental downtown um is that in keeping with what we already allow just a showroom but no repair So currently we don't permit any vehicle dis we don't permit uh vehicle dis sales vehicle sales so okay a showroom May we'd have to evaluate the code a little bit harder but a a showroom might be permissible if it's not including sales so I just have to kind of look at the land so rentals or rentals allowed downtown I I I'd have to look at it vice mayor I think it's um I'm trying to remember I'm trying to remember the picture of the co the the table and I think it says vehicle it I think it says vehicle sales and rental are not permitted or not per okay so that would be a difference okay I mean I knew repairs weren't allowed but okay [Music] um I love the idea of the pop-up registration at City Hall think that's a great idea because that is the biggest hassle going to have to get it taken over there um let's see um so there's a section on Alt 19 and I think um if you oh you've got it up so um and I guess it would be part of the red it's curu Landing like curu Landing right now to come out you would have to come down either a sidewalk on Alt 19 or on the road which you can't do and I had somebody asked me spe specifically about that but it's looks like from what you're showing they're they are totally landlocked and you don't see an option to get them out of there I couldn't tell you which neighborhood that was um just from hearing it maybe George could point on the map or which which neighborhood uh specifically is that for Kuru Landing I think it's the red area just above the double arrows 19 that was where we were proposing that um shared path we saw that there is um you know we talked with Ford pelis about maybe is there a way North and then sou um you know if there were an unincorporated program um there is just that is uh kind of your classic Suburban land use pattern and Street grid and there really is one way in and one way out and so it's um it's kind of surrounded by A Great Big route in a great big road in curu and a great big road in cr1 and so from our review of that there is just not uh there is not a way in without there being kind of a shared path that's designated for use by golf carts because cr1 I'm by all 19 so are we talking about the same area oh same issue sorry we weren't talking about the same uh location I was thinking further east yeah but um no and that's the same issue and that's um we worked with the chamber or we talked with the chamber about that a bit and there is an informal path we didn't see a good way for the city to do that in a way you know it's within FD right away for example um once you get into Alt 19 there is a way that I understand that folks are doing it now there's a shoulder and a dirt path and all these sorts of things we didn't see a way to kind of institutionalize it and make it something that um you know there's a sidewalk there now and it's kind of a sidewalk to Nowhere right um you know so I I guess the thought would be could you create a sidewalk and a also because it just has to get to it just has to get to Michigan I don't know it's a thought um I got to ask that question they'd love to be able to get out of there absolutely um let's see um I guess I'll let my colleagues ask questions so I guess we'll John she'd probably call you next so I'll go to you thank you the um just just random questions uh or comments real quick first you can fliping right off the crossing the trail there's one specific area here that takes us back into the trade that area up to up to Paula um which you can navigate fairly easily as long as you can get across there uh you don't is there a problem is there any problem with crossing the trail creating a new Crossing to the trail you you talked a little bit about I in my opinion like as a practitioner I don't think so um I think anything that you do involving the trail needs to be extraordinarily sensitive um it needs to be extraordinar sensitive from a design standpoint so that there is no way for a golf cart to get in but you also need to be sensitive that anything you do to make it difficult for a golf cart to get onto the trail you also make it a little bit more difficult for folks on a especially on a bike um to cross a trail so being sensitive to those um those elements I don't think there's any reason you couldn't so where do you go once you cross the trail on on the main on the main side on the double Trail on when you're crossing the trail on um is that the uh Tradewinds Drive yes correct um so that was just um part of the goal of this project was to eliminate these landlocked areas um and so that is kind of meeting that goal um we understand that there's a RFB being installed a you know pedestrian um push button uh pedestrian only Crossing and we wanted to kind of take the opportunity to see what we can do to kind of capitalize on that but broadly it's it's less about a destination and more about um broadening the um operating Zone but so once I cross it I'm familiar with that oh right no it would need to be const cross it then where do you go it would need to be construed yes it would need to be constructed as part of that um that cut through in the country club it you certainly wouldn't want to just add the crossing I'm not trying to bring any rain on that concept I know there's a couple people that would really love to see that and that is the only way you can do that yes I can I can tell you that for certain absolutely um coming back to this golf cart uh low speed vehicle chart um down in the Virginia area um the achiev away Virginia um is there two different colors there from the golf cart to the ls lsvs so um there is Virginia basically Virginia between Patricia and Kean is red um mostly red within the existing Golf Cart Zone but because that entire road is 35 mph it is um permissive for a low speed vehicle so the LSC can get into that into that area it was just left for that for that color I'm concerned for the golf carts still um about about that area that just being blocked out I didn't see a way to get through there however however we do have some property back in there that we that we do own and I just yes I don't want to get in any big Mischief here but just want to point that out if there was some I don't know how I I doubt it would be acceptable but there was some way to maneuver through that it's um it's one of those things that we we definitely recommend going for uh what is going to be most predictable for folks using the program or interacting with the program so people using the road right driving a car driving a golf cart so what would be most predictable for them is that the Golf Cart Zone allows you on a road right um and so our recommendation would be to pursue that first first and if it doesn't work from an engineering standpoint then try to get creative because the more complicated we make it to kind of make these things work and certainly worthy of doing if we can't do it the uh simple way um the more complicated it is for compliance um the more people you're going to have breaking the rules which frustrates others it frustrates the sheriff's office so we um wanted to kind of start out with what can we do by being really predictable about this so that we have the best compliance and the best um you know the highest degree of safety thank you I understand and we have a we have a cemetery back there we certainly don't want to violate that and we have other property back there that's very sensitive as well so I I've always been frustrated about that for those folks because I don't see an answer for them to get out of there um I appreciate your comment about the no charging requirements um that's pretty much been the case um the advantage of of electric vehicles of course I'll just say it this way the advantage of electric vehicles is the talk and so concerns about getting getting AC Crossroads um I've always stated a golf cart can be gone before you know it's not before you know it's there or not there um but that's not for every golf court uh cart so there are some problems with other with other propulsions that are used on on golf carts um as you know the um I was surprised when I saw this when I saw the presentation uh previously about the uh the Palm Lake Village um I appreciate us attempting to get access Ingress and egress for that group there's a large number of people that live in there I have no idea how many golf carts are in there or but but that doesn't mean they they they may not want additional um but I think most of those my guests my guess and and and I don't know uh what the real truth of this is but most of those most of those folks are probably only going to have one mode of of Transportation my guess is so I would put that kind of low on the on the priority I think but not not to pick on them but just from a usability standpoint um parking I wanted to ask this question did has anybody looked at parallel parking in the same concept right it yes um and I don't recall off the top of my head what the length of a parking space is it so you're you're referring to on street parking yes on street parking yes our our standard is 8 by 22 um so if we were looking at on street parking you know I think this recommendation goes both on the private parking and of potentially on street parking you know we'll get a little bit more granular as we kind of take a look at it if it's something you all support but we could look at reducing some of those dimensions in some spots and maybe possibly giving back some more vehicle parking and you know on on that particular segment of roadway or another roadway to to offset that those are things we have to do a lot more not a lot more work on commissioner thank you I appreciate the comment about the Marine I do know a lot of people like to go down there I really appreciate what you said and that is to make sure that we have that Monroe because that Monroe access is not so bad for the people coming from the north but from the south having to go around and then go back through that area but up till now it's it's the way you have to go and uh and I think I think there's if maybe maybe even warning lights I don't know um and there's people most people are willing to let people go through there uh they just need to know what's happening there's lots lots of confusion there but that's outstanding and um I'll I'll leave major Point here that's it thank you thank you commissioner well thank you mayor um yeah I too love the popup idea I just think that's just a natural fit why wouldn't we do that if uh they'll work with us um do we allow personal golf carts or will we as the golf course opens allow personal golf carts on the course yes I would think we would okay and will we allow lsvs on the golf course I don't know we'll find out I know that uh some of the members have their own carts and we actually store their carts uh in the cart Barn in some instances but I'm not sure about lsvs I I can check okay I just if we're going to encourage people people to transfer over from a golf cart you know and then what would be the difference if I own the golf cart but then it gets converted to an that's going to be a whole argument not it'll be a whole discussion great question I that's a good point and U then if that's the case then Jeff can you just ask about the difference in the speed between the two what's the difference in the speed between the two so off the top of my head I could not tell you exactly what it is my understanding is that a lows speed vehicle I believe is 30 um and a golf cart I think is 20 um and so but the difference there is that these are typically it's a governor um on a you know on a carburetor it would just affect how open you can make the uh you know the the carburetor open um and so that's just a mechanical piece that can be removed um a lot of people do that anyways on their golf carts um and so that is the difference between the statutory definition which is based off of the code of federal regul ations and then uh mechanically what you can do um on an electric golf cart I would expect that it might be a little bit harder to defeat that um than it would be on a gasoline golf cart that depends on um if there's a computer or how that computer board controls the electric motor but that would certainly be something um that you would that you know you being the the person looking to make the conversion would uh need to be cogn cognizant of for their specific device okay and then if we did that regarding the golf course thank you for that we we'd be asking staff to manage that who's allowed who's not allowed could I just add to that good girl my golf cart cannot it's an lsv and it cannot go 30 it can maybe not even go for 25 so I I think we need to check on those we'll double check that yeah I'm sorry Jeff do we have any type of registration process for golf carts no no okay we had to remove it if you I and I just wanted to clarify that because I wanted to push for all electric I don't know why anybody buys a gas powered anything um clar oh sorry to clarify the low speed vehicle part my uh my apologies it is a vehicle whose top speed is greater than 20 mph but not greater than 25 milph thank you thank you and in your discussions with the the community uh as far as rentals or sales downtown was that kind of pushed by them or what's the idea behind that I don't think there was a ton of conversation on it I think it was uh it it was really um the chamber that kind of profed up the idea um so you know obviously that's something we'll look at depending on your your Collective thoughts on whether that's should be something that we open up in the downtown but um okay it's just currently a recommendation because it was brought up this part of the discussion yeah cuz for for me rentals that's just one more opportunity to invite people to drive downtown so they can then drive around our downtown to me that doesn't make sense to me um as and uh and I believe most golf cart mental companies also deliver so it it also just makes sense to have it out somewhere else in the community and they deliver the golf cart to you so that way we're not having people drive into our downtown and that would be the same for sales as well if you live in dun Eden and you want to buy a golf cart you don't necessarily have to drive to our downtown to get one that you can drive anywhere and then drive the golf cart your brand new golf cart into our downtown uh sort of thing so that would be my thought um um the only other thing is uh I know everybody talks about Publix and why wouldn't they they're the big Behemoth um uh in the grocery retail but in and this is probably more to George George in addition to trying to find routes on how can we get people to our grocery stores are we working with grocery stores to see how we can get them closer to our neighborhoods smaller print type of things so you're not just accessing by golf cart you can bicycle to your grocery store you can walk to a grocery store to smaller forms of transportation yes so it's a good question uh commissioner you know obviously we have Nature's Food Patch which is something that people can probably get to it's a little more on the expensive side obviously if you're if you're going for that organic U uh Market uh I I I have not personally had any discussions but certainly something I can talk to our economic development team about and see if there's um something there where we could start to at least have some conversations with folks uh you know there Walmart broke down into neighborhood markets at some point so maybe there is an opportunity to to for another chain store to think about some sort of smaller neighborhood opportunity but those are conversations we haven't had yet right well I know that we've also had conversations with publ uh for the Gateway project at one point long ago that there was a consideration publ was going to go there that was before I was on the commission um but I don't know what size store that was I don't know what that concept was um and so it's just a matter and I know that there is the Nature's Food Patch but that's only one we could give give some competition and diversity to the to the residents that would be great other than that um um great presentation I like it I like the concept of trying to figure out what we can do with our parking spaces to encourage our golf card owners to double up and and partner with other golf cart owners so um thank you any any opportunity to uh uh reduce parking 50% required that's that's a wonderful thing so thank you commissioner yes ma' thank you um on slide 10 just for clarification the golf cart what is f.s uh Florida statute FL statute okay perfect um all right so just to kind of confirm my understanding of the process um this is where I get a little confused um it sounds like by Florida statute if it is a low-speed vehicle um then by definition it opens up any of the roadways less than or equal to 35 mil hour correct yes sir all right so then we look at the streets um the the recommendations the operating recommend ations and we're showing a high to low um probability of approval um why is it if uh an individual or family has an lsv well I guess the question is um does this plan then have to go to fot regardless of whether or not L there's lsvs that are now by Florida statute able to operate in those 35 plus or minus I'm sorry less than 35 miles or equal sure so um fdot is involved when it comes to their roadways and so um in transportation planning that issue that becomes a problem because they have um you know their roadways are designed from a Statewide for a regional use and so they're every so often they're very large they carry most of our volume and so they create these little Islands um that if you want to do it on your own you have to deal with your Island in between you know your uh mile spacing for major roadways um so only in instances where you're Crossing something that belongs to fdot does fdot need to be involved um and so the I I think the biggest difference between kind of that low-speed vehicle and the golf cart is that the recommendations are based off of kind of a golf cart program rather than a low-speed vehicle program because the the golf cart in in statutory definition is a much older definition than low speed vehicle lowp speed vehicle is kind of those the the trend dour in the 2010s where the golf cart was defined specifically for golf courses and then folks started to live by golf courses and wanted to get home after going to the golf course and it kind of evolved from there and so that's why they kind of exist in very similar but different spaces just by the nature of how we legislate and um you know uh regulation grows okay well and I some of the so the operating recommendations uh some of them pertain to Crossings of what I would assume would be F do controlled streets but some like Salon um well Union obviously collaboration with clear water got that but um are those fot controlled streets uh Patricia Union Skinner um Virginia and AA my understanding is that those are city streets um and then for Virginia a cha you would Cross County Road 1 which is a County Street um our recommendation for a new Crossing would be um one of those three opportunities to cross all 19 um in in the Northwest portion of the city and then another to cross uh curu um in the future okay and is there a plan to submit this uh is there a uh is it your intention to submit this entire plan to fot or how's that so fot was um through the uh two assigned kind of folks who participated in our stakeholder working group um they were kind of the voice of fot and helped kind of change some of the between that first meeting where we introduced the idea in the working group and the second meeting where we showed them here's what we're proposing we received that feedback from those folks who represent fdot um as staff uh and made some changes as well softened language here um eliminated some things there and so that is kind of the nature by which fdot has been involved um if staff plans to transmit yeah I was going to say you know I don't think we're going to transmit this plan to fdot but as projects evolve out of it and they're fleshed out and if they if they're involved in the approval process that's when we would kind of bring them into the process okay all right just to bring this part of it full circle then basically anything though that does touch and F do road is got to be approved by F or County so count if it's a County Road it's County approvals if it's an fdot roated State approvals okay um let's see uh so there was um I think commissioner gal asked the question with regards to um grocery store access um by just I'm confirming the way that I'm reading this but for a low-speed vehicle well actually this would be an fot thing too but you could you could take a low-speed vehicle East on San crisal make a right on cr1 and end up in the wind Dixie parking lot yes for wind Dixie okay so that that's that okay with a low speed vehicle yeah okay sorry I thought you were going to say I was going to say no but for wind Dixie absolutely yeah certainly um make sure I got everything yeah one thing that we did to approach grocery stores was we made a list of every grocery store within the city limits um we also heard of a neighborhood a Walmart Neighborhood Market from the LPA that unfortunately is on the other side of the city limits um and what we did was we looked at each one of those and said how would we do this and um really it's that Save A Lot is the is your best bet for a golf cart to access and that's like an actual golf cart not a lsv but the lsv um that certainly opens up much more unfortunately for um you know the survey respondents who really like a Publix it doesn't open up a Publix but it does open up that wind Dixie um that Save A Lot by ride um as well okay um and then the area up by curu Alt 19 um I you I don't I I think the speed limit in there is 45 you get on all 19 okay that's so that's uh prohibited right there um yeah and very unlikely to have that reduced often when they do speed studies it ends up justifying a higher speed limit so it's certainly something to with yeah yeah and I uh just the conversion part of it uh to the low speed vehicle um actually is is not that bad from both a conversion and Insurance part um the one thing I would say is is that uh I I do love the idea as my colleagues do to have a pop up here at City Hall cuz then you got the logistics of packing the card up and sending it somewhere and yada yada yada so well those are all the questions I have hello hello I got lots um you talked a lot about the lowp speed vehicles I know a whole ton of people that don't don't have that and don't want to have to convert so can you just tell me right now are you saying that on Patricia a golf cart I know what our rules are today but you're not recommending that the golf cart can just use all of Patricia no no we are um that was so the individual operating that Virginia yes ma'am all the way down a cha as well okay a golf cart not a low spe vehicle golf cart every operating recommendation that we made was for golf carts because otherwise they're allowed to do it by right and we wanted to be sensitive to that because we did receive feedback from folks that don't want to convert right um and so your program the operating areas that you have are the operating areas you have because those are the easiest operating areas to establish there's lots of you know backways around for a golf cart to be able to safely and lawfully access so what we did was we looked at especially I would say that Patricia and Virginia are your two biggest opportunities to locally expand that zone just because they're owned by you they're relatively small rows they're relatively low volume roads so you certainly all of those operating recommendations that I went in are specifically tailored for golf carts not lowp speed Vehicles okay and the reason I'm asking that is because if you're really pushing for the low speed vehicle how are we going to tell people oh a low speed vehicle can go here and a but a golf cart can only go there and the best way is if it has a license plate um a lowp speed vehicle does have a Flor Li I understand what I'm saying is how are you how do you communicate to a golf Carter not a lowspeed vehicle person right oh that that can go there but you can't I think it's as simple as that um that you know here is the golf cart zone map here's what a golf cart is if you don't have a license PL what they look at is the lowp speed vehicle doing it and then they go follow right and then because people are oblivious to the difference ability yeah I mean just yes but I mean absolutely it's not like cars there's not you know whole bunch someone in my neighborhood got stop three times that's cuz they were going and finally finally they got a lowspeed vehicle before they got a ticket so but it is the current rule today so the golf cart golf cart follows the low speed no ma'am you're right I just don't I don't want to create a plan based on low speed Vehicles because golf carts are going to do exactly what they do and that's ABS see it and they're going to do it yes ma'am and that's absolutely why um our operating recommendations do focus on that golf cart because we agree that it could create a lot of confusion and that um it certainly creates a burden on the sheriff's office as well which you know we know that uh there's like a perennial issue with hiring as well um so we didn't want to do that in that way where the plan itself recommends low-speed Vehicles we just wanted to illustrate that if there were low hanging fruit left that wasn't picked it's that but everything else in the plan is targeted towards golf carts okay so um what does it take to get Virginia and Patricia on board now so what you would do is um you would need to perform an engineering review um which is going to look at speed and volume um which is actually collecting that data um sometimes a speed study right and when you say an prec review that sounds very complicated an engineer doing a speed study um is exactly um what would be needed um something that your uh city engineer it would be done internally um would be comfortable with um but it should just be as simple as a speed study looking at the speed of volumes and the or speed of vehicles and the volume of vehicles um and then seeing okay is this something that we can justify now from there you would update your ordinance um your first and second reading um to uh add those roads into it and then you would update your marketing materials so George is that something we can do relatively quickly absolutely we're taking notes behind you Commission so we we these suggestions on how you kind of want us to attack it are are perfect for us um regarding Alt 19 and those three Crossings yes ma'am um I know Jorge is not here but we've actually been working with forward panel to get those medians in that same area right I'm looking at you there's it for for all different kinds of Crossings and I I'm pretty sure that is already in a plan somewhere I know there been some initial discussion on some meeting workout I think it's gone beyond that and I'm pretty sure Jorge knows exactly where we are with it yeah you know assuming this recommendation is one you want us to investigate well definitely well abely abolutely yeah we definitely but I'm pretty sure though I'm pretty sure it's already in the work I'm sure he's listening if he hasn't gone to lunch and he'll come down okay I mean can I just it might be three or four years you know on the forward panelist whatever whatever list but I'm pretty sure that's already in there no and you're right it should be something that is if you wanted to move forward with one of those three crossings that that needs to be incorporated in those designs so that you can if you can't get it back from an fdot variance right away that it's uh TurnKey in the future do it if the speed limit's lower but the reason why these Crossings and the median not just the suicide Lane right um was for safety yese no I was just going to say quite a few years ago we were targeting San Jose Jennifer will'll remember that um but you know we gave up in my neighborhood so U so we have low speeded Vehicles over there um okay so there's that one to follow up on so mayor if I may um consensus direction to move forward with uh aiva and Patricia as far as the speed study goes okay with well why don't we just wait okay that's fine we'll gather all of that at the end very good one clarification no sure because if you do a cha I understand Virginia and Patricia but can do a cha cuz you got to cross you would need to cross yes you can cross there you would need to cross Keen so you would need um I'm pretty sure we already have that approval by the way I think we already asked for it here they can check all that out hello hello mayor thought he got away I know I asked for it like years ago when we did the Falcon Drive Crossing okay so sorry I was on the phone at the time so I didn't hear the entire conversation but I'm assuming it has to do with in the works with the medians and crossings on Alt 19 there yeah we had if you recall um the dot had done a PDN study on that whole Corridor and so they had short-term and long-term recommendations uh there's the intersection project that they've got underd designed currently at the intersection of Al 19 and curo and then I think they're doing a a short-term project with various median Crossings along Alt 19 South of curu to right around Wilson which is the last uh crosswalk that the City built in advance is that what they're doing now or is is this something different CU I I just remembered it was a couple of years ago it was a couple of years out and I just don't remember when yeah I'm not entirely sure if that short-term project is currently funded in their work plan it I think it might be but I I certainly know that the intersection project is is underway yeah that I um but if you recall we did several of the crosswalks on Broadway South of there because we didn't want to wait really for for that to occur um so I don't know if if those crosswalks that are in that short-term plan include a lowering of the speed along Alt 19 in that area obviously if they lower it at to 35 or less then it becomes accessible with low speed vehicles but I'm not sure if that recommendation is kicked in and where that is I think it might be in the one of the four Panela list plans I I I seem to remember it so we just need to follow up to see if I mean Francis is on that TCC so she should know that um okay and then um the the access to the marina so Jennifer you probably remember when it was you me Whit and Honeymoon Island people and fdot people we first started talking about the additional Lanes going into honeymoon mhm or stacking space for cars right yes we talked to those fdot guys and they those two guys I can't remember their names but I'm sure they're documented somewhere said they didn't think there should be a problem going from Main Street directly to the marina because it's a like a five-way stoplight like when you're when you're heading west coming from the East heading west it's one it's only one movement of traffic nobody else is moving same way when you're coming back so um I don't know if we can get those guys names Wht might yeah I I'll I'll reach out to Whit because I don't remember I I think when you just call FD always says no right but then when they realized it was like bass we got the crossing at Bass because there is there's only one movement of vehicles so it's not unsafe can I make a just a quick comment on that yeah I was going to bench that during the comment phase um Monroe is a nightmare it is a nightmare and and this should be this is so much safer than Monroe we got a lot of feedback on Monroe and I'm sorry but the neighborhood back there doesn't want people with their golf carts now granted it's public it can be there but they don't want people with their loud radios going through there to get to the marina yeah I and I would say that I think this is a priority yeah I I would agree I think this needs to be pushed yeah make it make it go make it go for blow to eye okay so we what we'll do is we'll go ahead and we can um based off of your feedback we can put them into kind of a prioritization um the the low was less don't do it and more fdot right well that's why I brought it up because I mean I we sat in that meeting with so we can go ahead and make that project list with the ranking no I I I had that I had that in my final comments because the fact that they would allow the crossing to happen at Monroe is insane I mean you close your eyes and you just try to hope you make it up past it and and so it's so much safer so much more logical I couldn't agree more I'm glad you you know hit on it like you did because it just makes absolutely no sense how they'd allow that and and then to start putting warning lights that close to another light yeah it's stupid it's it's just it makes no sense so I agree top priority um I know what you said about the charging stations but I just hear it all all the time I'm not saying we have to have 30 of them sure and that was where our recommendation I I just feel like if we have a parking lot we should at least have one I just I I mean that was what started us on this conversation was the the parking infrastructure and the charging infrastructure I get asked about it all the time so I mean it could be you know limited time you can sit there but and I'm not saying it has to be free perhaps There's an opportunity to tie the two together too M I'm thinking if we offer these incentives and a and a private site takes that availability maybe there's a a requirement for some sort of charging that's part of that yeah and I'm not saying that that we you know that it it it's at no cost to the user I'm just saying I I just it we've had these things for 12 years 15 years whatever it's been to not have more than two Chargers in our entire city I think makes us look silly mayor if I can piggy back that with the question of since with the onset of of gol carts in communities what has been the advancement in technology as far as expanding the range of golf carts the batteries are getting better um you know uh as the next generation of batteries comes out the range is extended each time um and so naturally um it's kind of been following what electric vehicles have been doing obviously you're not getting 350 Mi of range out of a golf cart but um certainly the newer the vehicle the better the range um and especially with these newer battery technologies um you know like old school lead acid where you're filling it with distilled water and it degrades um the newer lithium ion stuff doesn't degrade as much and you get better range um longer lithium they they go forever long but they're also extremely expensive precisely very expensive and and so with that I I know you wouldn't do this in in an EV car but the older golf carts can you swap out as those batteries die swap out into new batteries that you a little easier than you can in an EV car right okay yeah I don't know I just I just think we if we have our own parking areas that we own then we should at least have one that that's just my humble opinion but um the other thing is and I know it's not in here but when we purchased the glattus Douglas property we got a lot of people that said can we get access from Bel trees to the entry now I know that's a that's a clear water or county or whatever um and again I'm not saying that's top priority or anything but I do think we should be if that's Clear Water we should be talking to them about it yeah for sure Mary we just need to speed limits what's killing us there obviously it's 45 in front of glat Douglas so it's that road is 45 that's stretch from from um towards the ALF to uh te Keen is holy crap yeah but it's strange that it's that high but that's I actually live back there so I I'm the one running through there at 45 okay well I just wanted to share that CU I I got asked that quite a bit um okay so you uh I'll try to get what the consensus is here but I think you had some other comments vice mayor oh well is this like final comments or questions comments whatever you want no I mean I just had some final comments which were you know I obviously Safety First fund second Transportation second then fun right um but uh because you know I always say we're one bad accident away from something so we got to be careful you know how we fit this together and not be so optimistic that we're not thinking about the safety pieces of this um and uh so uh let's see um do we have any idea how many um golf carts versus lsvs we even have I don't um I don't have a really good way to get that um based off of the data available yeah that would have been a great reason for registration um that we can't do because of the state um I like the parking hashtag idea I love the popup idea and I think we could do with that some help with insurance about how to try to get reasonable cost insurance um I um I love the question about the lsvs on the golf cart I think that's very pertinent before you push everybody to get lsv and then you can't go on the golf the golf course rather um I would like the curu landing checked out because there is kind of that sidewalk to Nowhere could it be multi-purposed to get to Michigan um let's see Monroe I that is just so crazy to me so that I agree with that being top priority we at Main and Broadway and um I think that's all I have anybody else I would like I would like to follow your recommendations based on the high low and and medium uh let's grab let's grab what we can grab as fast as we can grab it it might lead to other things as well sure we can incorporate um the time Horizon needed where Main Street is maybe a median or a medium time where it's a a high hurdle but it's medium time but it's a high priority as well well and then these kind of shortterm your Virginia's your patricias maybe those can be um just kind of in their own separate category so the easy the the ones that are the most likely to get done well let's just do those precisely as you set them up I started second guessing everything and said no let's I would back off and just do what you said you guys um final comments I guess it be again thank you for what you did um I'm I am concerned about the difference between uh low speed vehicles and golf carts and and the management the enforcement of of of all that I think it can very quickly just end up being a nightmare from people that just are trying to get away with something to those who just really didn't understand they didn't know the difference um uh regarding the parking again again I'm a big fan of that I'd like somewhere in that parking plan to encouraged centralized parking uh and what I mean by that is kind of just kind of a a park once mentality if you're coming downtown park one time and walk wherever you're going instead of every time you bar hop get back in the golf cart drive someplace else there that creates traffic and confusion among what spots are open and what aren't um I think is a is a better focus for the downtown [Music] um and again I think the popup idea is is fabulous and I agree with the priority of of trying to get people from Main Street down to the marina it's a good idea Comm uh yes ma'am uh good good comprehensive plan it it gave a lot of options and things that uh need we're we're considering um and not to beat this dead horse but um you know that that whole area there Monroe Street and it's not just Monroe but I will say that I I'm sure I've lost count on how many golf carts are completely not following anyway they're coming down Main it's they're going across and so um I say it every day you know I would say this get to yes and don't take no for an answer right perfect thank you what he said so yes top priority Main Street um people are doing it I see it happen every day I can't tell you whether they're low speed or golf carts I I don't know but I think our win here is the fact that it's it's just one flow of traffic you know every everything else comes to a stop um checking on those um medians on Alt 19 and where we are with that which would help with those Crossing requests and the Skinner requests we have said this since day one one of doing skner that we wanted an additional Crossing for skner so we're in the middle of design they should be able to make that happen Virginia and Patricia seems like a no-brainer it really does I always thought it should be that way anyway um I would love to get rid of some of that sign clutter everywhere you look on Virginia and especially at Patricia it's like all these golf cart you know it's very confusing for people I like the idea of the hashtag parking stuff [Music] um pretty much everything everybody else said so when when would you come back to give us an update Jennifer I'm going to defer to George on this so you know a lot of these will have budget implications so you know we would have to work probably through a BPI process uh you know there's going to be a lot of engineering involved some of the some of the low hang fruit we can start on immediately like the the kind of the the wait a minute what when are we right now our budget starts October 1 the third uh budget meeting is August uh 7th and so we need to work with less on this low hanging fruit and yeah incorporate in that bug because there's not I mean doing a speed study shouldn't be that big of a deal um and just you know working it out having communication with FD there's nothing to be done other than get their permission there mayor um so there are some items I think that we can we're certainly not going to wait a year to act upon so let me figure that out with George and um okay so again when when would we get an update I guess are you talking about that budget meeting or some other time no after the budget meeting um probably by first reading you know we we'll incorporate something into the budget yeah okay all right then thank you very much thank you for all your hard work everybody all right um I didn't get anything on commission discussion so I'll move on to city clerk's update um thank you mayor no I don't have anything today but thank you okay city manager update we have attached to the city manager update the city manager update report of July 2024 and also panel's County Sheriff's Office analysis report for June of 2024 okay City attorney update no update all right commission comments vice mayor no the only thing is uh obviously we just returned Sunday from Toronto where we had our annual Toronto Blue Jays trip and um you know it was great it's uh they are our largest corporate uh partner and um it was a it was good to see a lot of the leadersh leadership team there be with the chamber and um I had my uh annual meeting with Mark shyro as the president and again um it was good and I think it's just important it's uh a lot more relationship building than anything but just keeping the conversation so um it was good that's all I have thank you for your representation commissioner TOA just real quick the Florida Liga City's annual conference and about 3 weeks and there also be a section for the Sun Coast Lega cities then there be attending that thank you uh commissioner gal uh thank you Mar the only thing would be is this Friday is an all alumni uh game at TD ballpark so I welcome all dunan High School alumni to come on down a chance to watch a good baseball game a great baseball game and connect with some friends thank you mayor that's it commissioner walker uh the only thing I we have a PSTA board meeting on Wednesday the 31st go get them okay yeah go get them uh I have nothing wow I know W holy smoke I got nothing okay then yes that's good it's good all right nothing else for the good of the order we are adjourned [Music] [Applause] [Music]