good evening adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting Act of 1975 has been provided the annual notice published to the home news and Tribune on December 18th 2023 and has been placed in the main lobby of the municipal complex on December 18th 2023 Township of Edison Zoning Board of adjustment regular meeting of January 23 2024 is now in session please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag na indivisible andice Mr oera Mr bno here Miss Shaw here Mr aat here Mr chabra here Mr Sero herea here Vice chair o Gorman here and chairman Kumba here now I call a motion for chairperson make a motion to um nominate Michael cumbo to be chairperson second second second to the motion okay first and second um Mr Sero yes in the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion CH Gorman yes and chairman K yes thank you very much thank you uh members thank you for your confidence and shown in me um I really appreciate and I look forward to a great year um first I'd like to uh welcome and congratulate Mr chabra on uh being moved up from a second alternate to a full board member um we appreciate uh your service and I think you're going do a great job serving to the board um with that being said uh we will the chair will entertain a motion for the position of Vice chairman Mr chairman Mr chaber i' would like to make a motion to nominate Mr Daniel ogorman as Vice chairman to the board SEC second motion made by Mr Cher seconded by Mr sadada roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on a motion and chairman gumba yes on the motion congratulations Vice chairman thank you uh now the uh chair will entertain a motion for secretary to the zoning Board of adjustment I make a motion to uh nominate Rachel for the for the secretary job second motion made by Mr sedat second by Mr cido roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr Saha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on a motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion Rachel thank you so much for your service to the board you make us look good you keep us organized uh and we appreciate all you do for us thank you thank you the chair will now entertain a motion for uh the position of attorney to the Zoning Board of adjustment okay I make a motion to bini sha uh the attorney to the Zoning Board of adjustments second motion made by Mr Sada seconded by Mr o' Gorman roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on a motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion bini thank you so much you help keep keep us out of court when possible and uh when necessary that we have to be in court you defend this to the utmost and we appreciate you we appreciate your advice and counsel um and we look forward to a great year with you thank you for your vote of confidence the chair will now entertain a motion for a professional planner to the board I make a motion uh for naming the bigil planning consultant as professional planners to the board second motion made by Mr Sada seconded by Vice chairman o' Gorman roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on a motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion Mr bow we appreciate all that you do for us uh your advice in councel uh is amazing uh you are the top of your field in this state and we are very very lucky to have you uh and we appreciate your service to the board we look forward to a great year ahead well I thank you and I thank the board thank you for the kind words and I wish everyone here a very happy new year and I'm looking forward to another year of uh of providing service for the township thank you thank you the chair will now entertain a motion uh naming professional engineer to the board okay I make a motion for deliver R engineering as professional engineer to the board second motion made by Mr sedada second by Mr Sero roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on the motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion Mr Oar thank you so much it's great to have you here uh we appreciate the work that you and Mr Carly do on behalf of the board on behalf of the township um and we look forward to another great year working with you the chairman of the board thank you on behalf of uh Mr Carly and rest of the firm for the opportunity to serve the board another year appreciate the opportunity thank you so much all right I think that is uh all for that uh we have minutes for consider M mad secretor we have minutes for consideration yes December 19th 2023 for approval motion to approve second motion by made by Mr Sadat seconded by Vice chairman o' Gorman uh roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair o Gorman yes on the motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion we now have resolutions for consideration uh z21 2023 Jada House LLC at 91 Livingston Avenue motion to approve second motion made by Mr sedada seconded by Mr Sero roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair o' Gorman yes on a motion and chairman Kumba yes on a motion and z33 2023 Devin Madden at 66 Glenville Road motion to approve second motion made by Mr sedada second and by Mr Sero roll call please Mr Sero yes on the motion Mr sadaha yes to the motion Vice chair Gorman yes on the motion and chairman Kumba yes on the motion thank you Madam Secretary thank you good evening ladies and gentlemen this is a regular meeting of the township veton Zoning Board of adjustment this board is composed of Edison Township residents appointed by Municipal Council who volunteer their time in service to the board the municipal land use Law requires that members successfully complete a land use training course administered by the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs this board also holds in-house training conducted by our board professionals the zoning board abides by the provision of the of the municipal land use law in addition to our boards bylaws the zoning board is a quasi judicial land use board which differs from the township planning board board under the M Lan use law board members are required to be impartial and are not allowed to discuss any case prior to its consideration before the board at a hearing all applicants will have the opportunity to present their case before the board with the opportunity for board members and board professionals to question the applicant and their Witnesses at the conclusion of the applicant's presentation of their case the case will be open to the public residents in with within 200 ft of the subject property will be heard followed by residents from outside of 200 ft all residents will be sworn in they will provide their name and address and they will be given six minutes to comment on the application being considered without the opportunity for a rebuttal residents may ask questions of the applicant the applicant's professionals and board professionals the board requests that these questions are asked prior to any comments being made on the application once commentary Begins the resident timer will begin the applicant will be allowed for the opportunity for cross-examination of their Witnesses under the law the chair is allowed to stop any comment that is repetitive whereas an attempt to fill a bus the board further the chair is allowed to stop any commentary that is irrelevant to the case or prohibited from the board's consideration once a public portion is closed all public comment is ended unless new testimony is presented by the applicant following the closure of the public portion the applicant will have the right of summation on their application following summation the case will go to the board for a decision this procedure has been followed by the board and is similar to the procedures followed by Boards of adjustments Statewide Miss Banus Law requires the board to engage in a balance in Act is not required to strictly apply Township ordinances zoning plan or master plan as a board of adjustment variances are granted when appropriately necessary following all Leg legal considerations as has been the case of Prior boards this board will see where we are if we are still in session around 10:30 p.m. I ask that all applicants professionals and residents show respect to each other and be civil throughout all proceedings I ask that you withhold Applause booing or interrupting of anyone while they are speaking the chair will not tolerate any Outburst by applicants professionals or the public further since most cases are being recorded by rep reporter I ask the speakers do not speak over one another that being said m madame secretary first case on the agenda case z Z2 2020 Lamar Advertising of pen LLC 81 and 101 US Highway 1 applicant is seeking bulk and deuse variances to construct a billboard on the Property Standards have not been met in accord ordance with the master plan the billboard is not a permitted use in the zone front yard setback permitted is 50 ft proposed is 10 ft Max height permitted is 30t and proposed is 60 feet affected property is located in the gbh zone designated as block number 300 and 302 Lot number 101 and 701 on the Edison Township tax map all noticing paperwork is in order good evening Council good evening Mr chairman uh my name is Michael Butler from the law of er Seaman on behalf of the applicant um I spoke with the board's attorney and um I know that there's only five members that are present this evening so what we had talked about and I talked about M to Mr uh trip also was um presenting our testimony to the board tonight um and getting to the end of our testimony and having Mr trip present his testimony whatever testimony that is having the public comment and basically closing out the case um and then adjourning the the uh vote on the case until the board's uh meeting second meeting in February it's I think it was February 27th was was that date that would allow us to get you uh transcripts from the hearing um and allow new board members um to review that transcript before a vote actually occurs I have no objection to that Michelle you have no objection I have no issue with that okay Mr trip I'm G to ask you to put your appearance on the record and then I'm G to ask you objection to it um yes good evening Steven trip from The Firm of wman and Spitzer uh we represent uh W Rodman and Diane Ryan uh the owners of property uh 50 US Route one right across uh from the proposed billboard uh we also represent the entity that does business as Open Road Honda which operates open road so this billboard is directly opposite open road on Route One and uh we're in opposition to it I do have a planner this evening and I would also uh like to be afforded the opportunity to cross-examine the applicants Witnesses do you have any objection to uh the plan to run a show for the evening uh no I have no objection I've done the same thing myself represent so as as I said during my opening we'll see where we are about 10 about 10:30 p.m um you know you're the first case on the agenda as we got through got through the reorganization part so you'll have the balance of the evening so I don't see a problem but perfect please don't prove me wrong that let me tell you that that is not my attention I've been talking a lot so it's your it's your show councel okay thank you very much uh once again my name is Michael Butler I'm an attorney from the law firm of eard seamons I'm uh here behalf uh of the applicant um Lam more advertising of pen uh just before I begin I just want to make sure uh I have the correct uh review memorandum I have a big nail report from July 18th 2023 there is no there is another report is there Hank okay and then I have a a report from Delaware engineering uh August 7th 2023 is there an additional report no that's the correct report okay and then I also have a police department report from August 8th of 2023 I think that those are the only reports that I've received okay um so tonight we're here uh asking for approval for a billboard that that'll be located and at 81 Route 1 in Edison New Jersey it's designated uh on the Edison tax maps as block 302 Lots 2-0-1 comma 7 and 8 um we provided notice I believe this board already took jurisdiction of this application at its last hearing and moved it to this this hearing without further notice um the property in question is about 82,000 Square ft uh roughly 1.88 Acres on the south side of Route 1 it's located in the uh Township's gbh that's the general business zoning District um I have four Witnesses for you tonight um first will be Derek blat he is a representative of Lamar that's the applicant I have Dan dockerty he is the engineer he's from Dynamic engineering he'll be providing uh engineering testimony I have uh Justin Taylor also of dynamic but not Dynamic engineering he's of dynamic traffic he'll providing traffic testimony and I also have um oh to at the moment Matt Flynn um and possibly John MCD uh they'll be providing the planning testimony um once again we're here asking for approval for a billboard uh in in accordance with that a D1 use variance a D6 height variance and uh various bulk variances but we'll go we'll go through all that testimony as we as we go through our hearing tonight um I also am going to be playing a little bit of Vanna White uh I have some exhibits so I'll be walking around handing those exhibits to the members of the board as we go through uh through our testimony so um hopefully I don't offend anybody if I come close and throw some paper at you you can actually hand the um hand them to the secretary and then she'll distribute to okay perfect I would I would request that we uh be afforded a copy as well I made extra copies for you Steve excellent thank you very much no problem um so my my first witness tonight is Derek blat um if he could come on up blad if you just um pull the microphone close to you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got I do and please State your full name for the record Derek blat last name is b l a TT and it's Derek with one R I always I always Mis I always misspell your name okay and then uh after I hit send on the email I go back um good evening uh Mr Black can you just uh provide just for the board a little bit of history on Lamar um and a little bit of your employment history with Lamar yes Lamar is one of the largest outdoor uh advertising operators in the United States uh we have over 200 offices across the country and we've been in business for a little over 120 years um we focus in the outdoor industry um targeting uh motorists on on highways and uh during their travels from point A to point B um I've also been with the company for 21 years uh I'm the operations manager uh of the New York City New Jersey Market uh that basically means that my job entails everything that does not have to do with sales so I do everything but sell them so that's from the planning the permitting um construction the maintenance and the day-to-day changing of the copies as well as the monitoring of the illumination lighting um on them okay so you said you've been with Lamar for for 21 years um and during that time you've had experience uh both in the development and the operation and maintenance of billboards throughout New York uh and New Jersey yes okay um and you have you have experience in the development obviously the development operation of a type of billboard that's being proposed for this site absolutely many of them okay um so you've been in front of boards many times yes you're doing a great job your voice is not wavering at all um so can you just talk real quickly um about the proposed use did uh Lamar receive a permit for for the the billboard at this location yes we applied to the New Jersey Department of Transportation and under their guidelines were issued a permit they found it to uh meet those guidelines and they issued a permit and we have it has maintained in good standing order uh since that application and issuance okay I'm going to Mark into the record a copy of the permit um if you can just uh tell tell the board the permit number the permit number is 76505 and once again when when was that permit issued the permit was issued uh July the 3 2018 and it is still valid that's correct this will be marked as A1 is my chicken scratch on top okay okay that's fine okay all right can you just tell the board a little bit about um the type of billboard that's being proposed for this location so we're proposing a standard 14t tall by 48t wide uh static sign uh much like many others that you see along the the traveled roadways uh both on this roadway and on on other highways as well um it's static it does not it's not changing it's not multi message it's not digital uh it's a static message with illumination perfect so it's not digital like you said so it's just a regular static board so if the board board closed her eyes and kind of pictured a billboard that this is what they would say yes and you said it was 14 by 48 correct okay um are there any other billboard signs in in the area surrounding this property immediately surrounding no there are other signs along r rout one that are uh similar in size uh to this but not not in this immediate area I believe the closest sign is two miles away okay um I'm gonna we're going to show the board just a a picture of the area in question um can you just kind of describe this is what what's in this picture yep so this is you want gu It Off first or you want me to just go ahead you can go ahead I'll so this is a view as you're traveling Southbound on Route One uh you're you're north of the property in question uh looking South and headed towards you can see the diner and then uh Central to the photograph you can see the red and black boom of the crane up in the air um and that was a part of the crane test that we did uh for height okay and so you said you uh you did A in that in that exhibit which we marked as A2 you can see the crane uh from the crane test correct okay can you explain to the board why uh you did a crane test we we generally do a crane test uh when we need to determine what the viable height is that we need in order to be effective as a sign and and reaching the the motorists but also being conscious of the the surroundings and the existing buildings and vegetation in the area okay I'm going to show you another picture I'm going to hand this out to the board um can just a question before before we get into into that picture um what's the height of the billboard so the proposed height of the billboard is 60 feet as shown in this this is a a mockup of it and and why just why while while I'm kind of marking a few of these uh exhibits what's the reason behind a 60 foot height so there's um there's extensive vegetation uh on the the property and we do not want to remove the the vegetation from the property the the healthy vegetation um there we want to leave that to grow underneath and create a buffer for surrounding properties um but this also because the roadway has a slope to it it it helps to lift the the sign uh up out of the lower part as you can see here in this Photograph that Michael will distribute A3 you can see that the road starts to slope downward towards the site so um the 60 foot is measured at the bottom there so we need that up so people can see it from a distance okay so you you do the crane test so you can see if the height of the the height of the billboard can be seen from from the general driving public right we try to we try to have a a balance we do not want to be too high and and I'm sure we've all driven up and down the I95 Corridor going down you know to to the South and you can see some of those signs are you know 150 ft tall 140 feet tall we don't want things like that in in these areas we want to be down low and and not affecting the overall uh Skyline um at the end of the day we want to try to give space uh to create an advertisement that's uh good and pleasing to the eye uh as well as effective so would it be safe to say that you want to kind of create a balance between being able to see the billboard and being able to make sure that it's fits in with the a surrounding area that's correct um if you could just I I I was a little slow on my my writing I apologize if you could maybe just talk through the the the mockup there and that's we just uh we're marking as A3 is the uh read of the markup from US Route One going south yep you know now that you have it in front of you you can see in there the you can still see the the red boom of the the crane coming up and we have the top of the Boom basket uh measured at the 60 ft so that's where that yellow line across the top of the sign is right there at the 60 ft we did leave uh vegetation both uh behind the sign as well as we did leave the one tree in front so that you can see um where that 60 ft Falls in uh regard to the existing signage that's there or the existing uh vegetation that's there um and the here you can see that that down slope of the the roadway there um and there is also and I'm sure our engineer will get into it there is a a it does drop off from the roadway down to where the property is by a few feet as well okay so um part of the mockup shows um some trees of vegetation in in front of the the the billboard um and those will be trimmed yes we we're proposing to trim those okay they're not going to be taken out they'll just be trimmed on top Mr chairman Mr BD if I can interrupt right now um you've been cutting trees down on this property without permits so you have any knowledge about that no um we did no okay uh we have no knowledge of trees being taken down if it could be the property owner that's taking them down but well I don't care who's taking them down you're taking them down without permits and that's the problem we have pictures of it too so okay um if if there's something that's being done that should not be done you you can reach out to me Hank and I'll deal with the property owner we'll figure out uh how to take care of it well the issue becomes when you cut start cutting trees down what's the replacement I know you have you're proposing a lot of trees and everything on on your plan but it just makes it really uncomfortable for us to kind of have to figure out what what's required what's not required you have to pay permit fees there's a whole bunch of stuff that go into this so that's something something you really kind of need to address like immediately all right yeah and then like I said that that's not a that's not a problem if you can you know just let me know what what what pictures you have and I think you need to get a hold of the applicant or the owner of the property and tell him to knock it off and find out what he did of course it shouldn't be on us to to chase you around you should be obeying the rules of the township oh no I I I'm not I'm not saying that it's it's on on you and anyway well he needs to contact the zoning office and we'll we'll let them know what we have okay not a problem I will Conta the property owner and have them Reach Out or all reach out on on their behalf and we'll we'll figure that out thank you Mr uh going going back to your testimony so the there are some trees that are shown some vegetation that's shown in the in the panel th those trees will be uh trimmed yes that's what we proposing to do okay um and when you're trimming a tree in your experiened does that kill the tree no uh in my experience you know if you use a um someone who's experienced and and doing this um they a crown reduction uh of the the tree can actually make it healthier and grow Fuller um if it's done uh by a professional and you know and then you just need to maintain that so that it continues to grow full and you'll have more new uh routes and growth out of it okay perfect and you said before I may be repeating I may have missed it when I was walking around um on that on A3 the crane is shown in in the picture um and that top of that Crane That is 60 feet correct so that mirror is the the top of the proposed billboard correct okay um I just handed out what we're marking as a four um and this is I guess for the record we can title this mockup um of the billboard from Route One uh North could you just describe what's in that picture yep you're south of the the site um and you're heading Northbound here uh looking across the highway um this is the proposed height of the the billboard um you we used the same crane test where the crane was there we removed the boom out of it um but you can see that it's imely the same height when you're looking at the other way and that's why we're proposing to trim some of those trees at the top Mr chairman Mr M I'm looking at the pictures that I I'm seeing for the first time um it seems that the sun is huge for the for the location is there any way of making it smaller and and and not as tall I mean if you're going to trim the trees why don't we just lower the lower the sign and make it a little more to scale of the neighborhood I mean this is this is huge we we we absolutely could I'm trying to stick within uh a parameter that we use with the Department of Transportation of 25% for Crown reduction we try not to exceed a 25% Crown reduction at one time would that be the actual size of the of the sign that you got in the picture is that pretty much how it's going to look in scale it's as close as can be done because it's hard to tell the the artist that's creating the the rendering exactly how far we are away and what the millimeter of the lens is that you're taking it with it's it so it's it's difficult to say exactly whether that left to right Dimension is correct okay does it have to be that I mean if you look at the side going uh South it doesn't appear to have any trees at all in front of it where a where a crane is right you have you can easily lower the sign there probably make it smaller at the same thing on the other side I mean some of those trees have been cut out of there now so I don't when was when was this picture taken this picture was taken in August yeah they've cut the trees down like through Christmas oh really yeah so I was going I was going to the movies and happen to be going by and so okay yeah I mean we're we absolutely would love to bring it down we we would as long as there's um room to bring it down um closer to the the roadway and and we're not interfering with the existing vegetation and we're just trimming yeah yeah it it just seems overpowering the way your pictures depicted to me that's all okay thank you yeah chman Mr um can you explain to me the 25% Crown reduction what exactly does that mean so what we work with the Department of Transportation on usually along their rideway is uh a maximum Crown Crown reduction of 25% of the overall height of the tree so if the tree was 20 ft tall you can take out five you can take out 5et then you have to let it grow for uh 2 years before you can take out another 25% to allow the tree to fully recover from those cuts you you have done some can you just bring the bring the the microphone down you have done some substantial cutting to the trees out there you might already be below the 25 or above the 25% so I'd appreciate if someone can come into our office along with what Mr bignell is saying if you can come in and see me I'm a zoning officer in Edison so um it was a substantial amount of trees and and branches that were cut so um an actual picture uh or depiction of what's there now would have helped but um all right moving along just you know this picture was taken in August of this year we wanted to have it with the vegetation fully out um and I have not I did not get a chance to go by the site um it after I think the last time I had been by the site was octob late October okay so if he's saying it happened around Christmas time I have not been there to see that at this point yet no problem and like I said before we'll we we we will reach out to you and to the to the property owner to figure out what what happened out there okay that works thank you perfect um all right so just just going down the the pictures and I forgot to ask this before these pictures they were taken by you or at your direction correct correct okay um and then they were they were provided to Lamar uh to a different department in Lamar to to mock it up and and make the make what's being seen as the the billboard appear in in the picture yes we do have a program uh an art program uh within our corporate office that this is what they do all day every day is is mockups for um different plants around the country okay perfect um let's just talk real quick about some of the um since it it it since it's a static board um how does the message on the board change so the the messages Chang it's a it's a printed vinyl like a tarp um it's stretched uh on there by three workers um that come to the site they'll go they'll climb the sign and they'll remove the old one and they'll put the new one on using ratchet straps and fiberglass rods uh within the pockets and they pull that on uh and that's changed um about you know about every four weeks unless we have a a long-term client who wants to stay up longer okay and you said uh how many people how many people are ear in the crew for that go out to change the sign it's generally three people okay and they they they what time of the day do they come out how long does it take they they usually try to be there early in the morning or they'll try to work around when they know that the uh the business is not super busy um knowing that there's a diner uh right there they may wait until you know if they can't be there before the morning uh breakfast rush they may be there after the breakfast rush but before lunch um and it usually takes about 45 minutes maybe an hour at the most okay and when they come out to the sign to change the copy um do they need a bucket truck or they just come out with ladders and and climb up the side to to do that kind of work they'll just come with a a pickup truck or a van um and a ladder and they'll climb up the sign and then they'll pull the the the vinyl up with a rope okay and there's enough is there enough parking spaces on on site to allow the the the crew to come on and make the changes said about once a month yes absolutely and I know we have a a a path that we're proposing to put into the sign from the park the paved area just like a wood chip path um how about maintenance of the sign so we would obviously take care of the sign and the surrounding area around it um the the um landscape area area there um that's that's now kind of wild um we would be taking care of the maintenance of that as well and of course going through if if we're going to be maintaining it any permitting process that needs to be done for vegetation uh trimming or removal uh we we are aware of we've we've done other vegetation stuff uh in other parts of town so we are aware of that right and the billboard like I said before this is just a regular billboard there's no no uh smoke or noise or bells or whistles that that come out of no nothing nothing moving nothing flashing nothing uh no stuff like that it may from time to time end up with a an extension on the top which you know just to enhance it a little a little bit but um it's just a static image okay and the the the I guess the the one thing that we haven't really talked about yet had and shown is the is the lighting because this is obviously this being a a static billboard it's not lit by an LED digital Bill digital digital widgets uh for lack of a better description it's lit by by lighting stanion so I'm going to pass out to the board what we're going to Mark as exhibit A5 um it's a analysis of the three luminares uh lighting to towards the billboard can you just um Talk the board through this exhibit and what it's meant to show and and this was prepared by uh Lamar correct this is prepared by one of our um colleagues at Lamar yes this is um a lighting diagram that shows uh an image the the bottom image shows you uh with the colored lines shows you the foot C hand dispersion across the the board um and shows how with the three light fixtures that would that we're proposing here um would illuminate the face of the board and you can see how they they significantly drop off towards the top and the edges um to keep that light focused on the billboard instead of all over the place and above and below all right so so what that shows is there's a lot of lot of numbers and waves that you know don't don't make much sense to me but basically what what that's showing is that um the illumination that's coming up is directed directly at the billboard um and that light spillage doesn't go off off the sides or over the top of the billboard it's reduced as much as possible um it's it's reduced as much as possible there and you can see that you know as it gets as high as 42 foot candles in the center and and if you look at the top corners they're down to nine and 10 so it it drops off significantly towards the edges it's just enough to keep it lit compared to the existing conditions on the roadway there are some street lights there there is lighting from other businesses in the corridor so it needs to have a certain level to be uh competing with them but it and be visible to the motorist but we try to keep it as low as possible to the edges um to be compliant and not spill into the sky Mr chairman Mr we know um I'm just looking again at this for the first time this evening um what I'd like to see is a plan that shows the spillage on the site plan itself what the foot candles are um any kind of Sky glow you like this thing at 42 foot candles it's like light in Yankee Stadium um it's a huge sign from the other pictures I just saw this evening um I'd really like to you know zero in on more of that those are the kind of things that affect the public the lighting the you know the height things like that and um I'm glad it's a static sign but I still like to examine the the the the light perimeter and how what it how it bleeds off onto the neighboring properties okay and and just just for the record what was what we marked as A5 that was included in as part of the site plan um we thought we would bring it so we could blow it up a little bit because it was a little small I think on on the actual site plan you might say it's part of the plan I can barely read this so there's no way I read it off the site plan so I'm I'm sorry I'm getting old but you know even of my bifocals here I'm having a hard time so um this this this is really important stuff is the light part and even all the other commercial properties along the highway we've always paid particular attention to the sky glow how it affects the residential how it's going to affect the neighbors whether they're in apartments or not I don't really particularly care that but they are they're residential units so I really think we need to have a little more detail of this or something that we can see better I'm yeah all right I mean I if you're gonna ask me for if you're gonna ask me for my opinion I really can't give it to you with this and I'm not sure about I won't speak for will but um I think we need some more detail before we can kind of advise you before you know we can kind of keep going with this thing until we understand what what we're really up to if we're going to close out the hearing tonight I don't think we're I don't think we're GNA make it with the information that we're getting great okay I don't I don't be difficult but I'm just trying to no that that ABB more information and that that's understandable and this was our first exhibit on illumination so the ne next exhibit that we're showing the board is a is a picture of a billboard using the same illumin illumination um at night so you can see what what the what it looks like on the face of the of an existing billboard um I'd like to the opportunity to to review it first and before we keep moving forward with it because if we're going to listen to all this tonight then we're going to go back and have to we look at it anyway then what is the obors going to look at you know what I'm saying we're going to talk and talk and talk and then we're not getting anywhere that's uh a problem that I see so I don't know how you want to handle this Mr chairman but this is not U it's very difficult to understand you understand the point I'm trying to make or I going with this okay I do Mr Butler do you have anything to offer do through through uh either Mr blad or your engineer so as to answer some of Mr Bell's questions well as I said we were going to continue on with putting in exhibits of pictures of uh Billboards using the same technology at night so that you can see firsthand what it looks like with the board the board can actually see what what it looks like when it when it's in practice okay does the do the is there a comparable site plan that goes with those exhibits that you want to show us because it could just be a pretty lit picture it doesn't help me get to the point where how it affects the neighborhood and what it's going to look like I I've been through this a couple of times with with other activi like cop Golf and you know and and all that craziness and the lights behind the supercharge and all other stuff where I've been in these people's backyards at one o'clock in the morning and it's really annoying I could read the Sunday Times with some of the light in their backyards at one o'clock in the morning I don't want that to be a problem here so I'm trying to head this off at the P so I'm how many more exhibits you want to pass out to us uh Mr Butler is there a bunch more well from from for Mr blat we've got three more exhibits to go to go through see I'd like them to relate to a site plan layout if we could do you have that so what what we have is is the Billboard uh analysis the illumination analysis that was included with the the site plan um other other than that uh no for tonight's hearing we we don't have um I'm not even sure what what what exactly you would want you would want you would want an analysis from Level if you're showing me light on a billboard I'm looking for the light that spills off that billboard onto the property and I don't get that unless you show it to me on a site plan where I can lock you in so if you testify to something and they approve something and it's not what we're getting in the field at 11 o'clock at night then I have with the zoning people I had the ability and to go in and say hey wait a minute you're this is not part of your approval this is not what you testify to so that's what I'm looking for I'm looking for a little more uh practical detail I mean the pictures look nice I I that's a good thing but it g it gives them a rough idea what the size and things are my concern now is is the two things is the height and the light so right um if we can kind of work that out um that would be you know I think it' be an easier pull for you guys but right right and and and the you know the exhibit that that Mr blat was just just talking about does have the light um illumination levels but I can't I can't read it that's my am I concerned I want to be able to look at it and see it and understand it right I'm having a hard time just reading it here so I can I can spend a couple time you know a couple hours on my design table looking at it to figure it out i' I'd be more comfortable with that okay all right I mean honestly from a from a from a Layman's perspective I I feel like I'm looking at a complicated meth problem here so I I need somebody to to dumb it down a little bit sure um the other thing is I want to see where the sky glow is going to be um you know coming off of the billboard um you know so at night so from the from the residential um from the neighboring properties that's something that that then I'll speak for I don't know sure I'm speak for the rest of the board but that's something that I would want to see yeah give give me just one second yes this well if you look at the lighting standard she's not addressing Cod expert because there's a lot of aspects to this for example you can have a board that's fully Lim you can have it so Bel the board you're not have at all when somebody looks at it they still see the it's still highly visible whereas if it was a building it would be dark potentially SC but the impact is inherent in the board itself not the light trees are all buried you can see right through two of the apartments all right i p i pow out a little bit thank you um so what what we just talked about was um I want to just put one more exhibit into the record with with Derek because then he's pretty much done with his testimony I can maybe bring it back for a couple cleanups or something at the the February hearing um we'll go back I'll talk to to Hank um and we'll figure out how I can get him the information that he needs in order to make his determination um and then I'll bring everybody back at the next Hearing in February February 27th don't know if that's going to be the date for a hearing that would have been just for a vote okay Rachel what's our agenda look like our februaries are pretty full um I would probably recommend March 19th they're March 26th depending on when you could get the revisions in yeah and I won't be here at the February meeting so I'll be back in March okay is said March was March 16th one of them I March 19th and 26 thank you okay Mr chairman Mr B now I would just like to put put one other thing on the record that's just come to my attention recently in the office um state is is having public hearing because they're realigning route one right there they're changing the the accessways and stuff um so I don't know how that affects this sign whatever you're going to do with your you know the visual thing of it you may want to kind of like look into that a little bit too no problem so they ain't facing like the other way yeah no no no problem and this would also give us time to talk to the to the land owner and figure out what's going on with the the trees um because that that was something new we just heard about tonight so we'll we'll get on that and figure out what's going on thank you um so if I could just put one more exhibit in and then like I said Derek is probably going to be done he may not come back on the 19th I may bring him back just for a few questions but I just just a wait get him at least one one person out of the way okay um the next exhibit is I'm going to mark it in as A6 it's a um just for the record it's a a night uh p a picture of a billboard at night um at home Recreation is the what's on the billboard um Derek if you could just describe um what's in the picture yep so this is a this is a 14x 48 you just bring the bring the closer thank you so much no problem this is a 14 by 48 billboard sign just uh same as the one we're proposing has the same uh lighting as we're proposing as well which is three of The 100 watt LED fixtures with a 7 and 1 12 degree tilt um you can can see the three fixtures because there's three kind of like white dashes and you can see the outlines of the three fixtures when you're looking at the billboard um it lights up the apron it lights up the sign you can see that the lighting drops off on the the corners but you cannot see it it you can see that it does not spill below it because you can you can't even see the support structure for the the monopole that's below it you can't see that so you you know that the light does not spill down below and illuminate that pole um you can also see the other side because this is a back toback similar to the one that we're proposing when you look very closely at the bottom of the image you can see three white like dots blurred dots underneath that's the actual spillage from the lights on the other side coming through that's as much as you you would see um coming at it uh and with nothing there um uh for the light to reflect off of Once it spills beyond the the borders of the the sign you don't see any illumination perfect um and before we finish up I know that there was a comment in uh the Delaware raran engineering um uh review memorandum about uh the the light being extinguished at a certain time you're okay with that that restriction yes okay um I don't have any further questions for tonight like I said what I'd like to do is uh talk to Hank um figure out you know what information he's looking for uh so we can get that to him figure out what's going out on out in the property with the uh with the trees so Mr Butler what I'd like to do is I'd like to go to the board I'd like to do this twofold the first thing I'd like to do is i' like to go to the board and see if he has any if the board has any questions for Mr blat uh the second uh layer of it is that if there is anything that the board feels that um would they would need uh for when you come back um we would like to put that on the record as well Perfect all right excuse me Mr chair I'd also like to ask a few questions before particularly if the witness may not be back at another meeting is he gonna be back in another meeting you're gonna be hear so generally our our procedure is this when there's when there's when there's opposition there's opposing Council Mr trip you you you it's not your first rodeo um but you know generally what we'll do is we'll when we when we open up to the public portion um you're first in terms of the public portion um so I don't really want to reinvent the wheel tonight um so Public public portion is different that's for comments well I know but we but but this is the procedures that we follow so I would be able to cross-examine each of the witnesses during the public P that's correct okay and and Mr chairman I just confirmed Mr blat will is available on the 19th okay that's perfect all right so we're all good there's peace in the world okay all right um so now I will go to the board um if the board has any questions for Mr blat um I'm actually going to kick it off so Mr blat the um I'm reviewing the uh application for uh New Jersey Department transportation application for outdoor advertising permit um type assign uh ground mounted steel uh illumination yes and it's checked off multim message type digital but you've testified that it's a static billboard uh that's that's correct we did um apply for a multi msage permit here um and it we did receive a multi-age permit from the state but we are only uh proposing to build a static sign so we we will have and maintain a multi message permit but only um build a a a static um that also does at the current regulations uh with the state that does block knock out anyone else from being able to get a multi message within 3,000 ft in either direction on that same side of the highway so just to be clear and just pardon me for being naive but so if you receive a permit for a multi msage billboard and you put up a static billboard it's it's it's not that's not an issue it's not an issue okay it's it's an issue the other way but it is not in in the in the eyes of the state I wish the state would be that more forgiving on other issues but sory okay thank you so much um and then my other question is and um this is um upon the Delaware rtin report about um uh times to turn if there if there were illumination times as to when the board would not be illuminated um and you would agree to that yes okay what would those times be so I believe it was it was it was until 11 o' 11 o' was was the time time that it it said to cut off which we're okay with cutting off at 11:00 p.m. we also um use a it would only come on at Sunset um we use a a device that uses the same signal as your cell phone um so it changes the sunset time every day just like everything else and um when it also does not have an active client on there the lights would also not be on for that so if we don't have a paying client they would be off no need to keep them on okay all right thank you and I'll go to the rest of the board the board has any questions for Mr Black Mr do you have a question Mr Cher um there is a large population um behind the sign um south of it it's a much it's a really large residential rental community and um it's at a much lower elevation um is there any research or data done from that perspective um any exhibits that you guys anticipate on providing yes we will later on in the uh presentation to the board present uh testimony and evidence regarding that proper those those that section of the property okay I look forward to anyone else Mr chairman Vice chairman yes in the Delaware Valley Delaware raron engineering report in reference to any existing signs within 25 200 fet is there any documentation there is any signs within 25 200 fet so there are no other Billboards within 2500 ft in either direction okay on Route One along Route One thank you another item in reference to your exhibits in reference to this tree issues are being cut down we would need updated exhibits showing uh the current current conditions what the tree is not there so the one as an example exhibit A4 that was taken in July based on a testimony today there's been uh trees been removed so these this is not the actual current condition yeah yeah so like I said we we're not right sure at the moment this was the first we had heard about trees being taken down so we will go and and determine what what has happened um and then we can revise plans accordingly um it may not it may not result in a change to that exhibit A4 um because that that's a mockup of of what the sign would look like um if if for example if if there was a tree in front of that that mockup uh if there's Veet vegetation in front of that panel it would be it would be trimmed down anyway so you wouldn't see that vegetation um but I just as I said as as I'm sitting here I don't know the the current condition because we just found out about trees being removed one one more item Mr BL you testified that the uh there'll be an access way to get for maintenance to get to the uh proposed billboard I didn't see it on the drawings so we're we're there's a there's a path through the the trees through the trees there there's a space to go through that we could just walk through we're just planning to we're proposing to put wood chips down so it's a natural surface um to keep the vegetation from from growing up the small vegetation so it provides a clear and safe access for the guys carrying the ladder and um a place for them to set the ladder up what about parking where they going to park the vehicle there's adequate parking there on on the site already um the former uh auto body shop and the diner there's enough space for them to park the um pickup trucks we've been we've all been on the site several times and there's been plenty of parking there thank you yes so the when the tech comes to install the billboard they literally Carri it up the ladder so they'll they they take a ladder they hook to a ladder that's existing on the pole uh it's it's called a fixed ladder uh access ladder up the pole they'll climb up with a rope they'll throw the rope down to somebody else and then they'll pull the vinyl up with a rope to the catwalk um how heavy is the VIN just so 1448 vinyl uh nowadays is much lighter than it used to be it's about 34 35 pounds so it's not excessive um I remember 20 years ago when I was uh putting these up it was about 75 76 lounds so I have a batting cage in my backyard that I wish was that uh that light every time I have to put it up every year anyway okay thank you very much absolutely does the board have any other questions or any other requests Mr bigd Mr chairman um I appreciate them coming in um to to to provide the uh additional information uh I think it's very important that um the lighting and all that stuff be squared away and that there'd be no questions if the board chooses to approve this u d variant I completely agree Mr bar no I would just concur with Mr Bell's comment that it would be very helpful to have those lighting levels superimposed onto a site plan AB to see how it's relates to the residential areas absolutely and I just find it interesting that Lamar has in-house services to provide these visualizations because some of your competitors have sat in your seat and it's like we're asking for uh their first born when we ask for a visualization of it that's an editorial comment I know Miss Shaw will appreciate um we do actually have a uh a full facility uh that has more than 30 artists there that create artwork for the signs they create they create the the visual mockups there's a team that just does the visual mockups um proposed plans for uh clients who take we can take our actual billboard and superimpose uh a proposed creative for a new client onto there so they can see what it would look like excellent um okay and then does does the board have anything else for Mr B okay all right Mr Butler nothing further okay all right so that being said um Rachel when are we rescheduling this for March 19th March 19th okay um so for anyone here for anyone listening at home this case will be carried until March 19th 2024 with no uh further notice required um if you have received a notice this is your notice um and uh that's it thank you very much we'll see you on more 19th thank you very much Mr chairman Madam Secretary is there any additional business come before the board this evening that'll be all chairman all right that being said motion to adun Second motion made by Mr sedada seconded by Mr Sero all in favor signify by saying I I I nay the eyes have it board stands adjourned until June 30th 2024 at 7 pm thank you very much you're going to enjoy