all right let's call this meeting to order at 7:03 pm. we're going to start with the salute to the flag I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from Bur all 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of July 22nd 2024 is available by calling phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2024 133 and sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 4th 2024 post on the B website the bulton board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to conclude this statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison M please have a roll call Council memb call herec joining us later councilwoman ho here counc h here bar here here and we have administrator York attorney M Chief MCG and engineer is V Andy okay A little bit of housekeeping real quick councilman La Barbara has put some Dunkin Donuts on the front table so anyone that would like some Dunkin Donuts feel free to help yourself we're going to start out with a presentation um our wonderful Garden Club received a very very uh amazing award um and I would like to do a proclamation in their honor is that wow how like colorful are they dressed back there if if you wouldn't mind want you to come all join me up here okay this is a proclamation congratulating and recognizing the Garden Club of faan it reads whereas the B of faan would like to congratulate and recognize the Garden Club of Fair Haven who received the Garden Club of the Year silver trophy from the Garden Club of New Jersey and whereas the fan Garden Club has given countless volunteer hours to the B of bar and many organizations for many years and whereas they have been involved with the American literal lalal Society clean ocean action friends of Rucker Gardens Foundation M conservation Foundation Habitat for Humanity and the New Jersey autool Society to name a here and whereas the Garden Club makes the burrow wreaths every holiday season they plant and maintain the planters Memorial Park to complement the various Seasons as well as provide assistance in The Parting bird sanctuary plant flowers at Bicentennial Hall and provide floral arrangements for Meals on Wheels and whereas they give out scholarships every year to rson Fen Regional High School student will study horiculture agriculture or enroll in any in an environmental curriculum and whereas for the past 10 years members of The Garden Club of Baran have driven through town identifying front and side yard properties with Gardens that contain colorful and attractive flowers or P culture and whereas a list is provided each year by The Garden Club advising of the properties that they would like the mayor and Council to present with the random acts of beauty award and Proclamation got that email today now therefore be a proclaimed that I J Hal and the burough Council of the bur Fairman wish to congratulate recognize and thank the Garden Club of for their time and talent making faan a beautiful place to live work and play thank you quickly on beh of Cl thank you it's been our privilege pleasure for almost 73 years to be a hard okay uh moving along first Workshop session sdl system are you taking that yeah I can provide the background so 14 to 16 months ago uh we embarked on a journey to evaluate a piece of software uh for the burough Fair Haven that could do a handful of critical ends um automate and optimize process SE um digitize where appropriate uh facilitate transparency uh with whoever may be submitting an application no matter what kind it is um and really um those were the three um so with that Betsy and I uh started looking at and working closely with the previous bir administrator uh bettyanne uh Alice and Christie um a variety of different softwares the first one was Civic now um and the second one was sdl um an evaluation of of both of them took place with with the staff um and sdl um was ultimately identified as the most uh appropriate uh for Fair Haven and and for a handful of reasons um first being is that the Construction office in Rumson uh already uses sdl so all of the required data uh block and lots residents Etc is already in the system um sdl comes with all um what I would call White Label processes because it is a piece of software that is widely used in the municipal Arena um there's a handful actually more than that there's there's quite a few wh labeled processes zoning permit tree fence take take take your pick there's there there's a lot um sdl also uh helps support and automate Fleet Maintenance uh vehicle maintenance road maintenance and it's all within the confines of the software that exists um the processes because um we want to go step by step um that we want to look at would be uh fence uh generator tree and the zoning permit application so the technology is the easy part the the the the the the the time and energy is spent on napping out the current processes of what they currently are as of today optimizing it and then transforming it into the software itself um we had countless resident input over the last 18 months about frustrations with a variety of different processes and transparency and what have you entirely cloud-based solution um there's an app for it um and when we did the demo um it if I submitted application X um I would receive notifications when it was received I would receive notifications when it was reviewed I would receive notifications when it's approved I'd be able to have the transparency to see where it exists in the process from start to finish and all of that is I'm going to say templatized I'm not going to say customizable because then don't need you know do I need somebody coding on the back end it's literally plug in P pick up these different components of a digital workflow put them in the sequential that we want um and roll with it but it's a template you need to be yes 100% all of them will be modified is proba the word to what is best for Fair Haven they give us a white label to start with but we will ultimately make it hour process Fair Havens process so assuming white label turn on that a template yeah that mean exactly um can you spend 30 seconds on if we uh wanted to differentiate or um discern between a residential M permit application process and a commercial Z perent application all of that functionality exists it comes down to what is the requirement so if our requirement is hey we want to discern between residential and business we want to discern whatever discernment we want to make we can build however many workflows that we want um directly integrates with our website um yeah it all comes down to the requirement that's correct yeah uh already in the 2025 budget so we're not seeking for funds out of this this was part of the finance committee one of the line items for Tech uh this was in there um yes it's already budgeted already budgeted for because again we've been 14 16 17 months we've been working on it and just to take the question about differentiate one step further knowing that it will be a template but customizable toen do you foresee and I know he touched this um bringing some stakeholders in to help identify what those deficiencies need to look like okay yeah I would say yes right and and I would even go as far as like in the private sector right we we would do soft launches right as well like soft launches where hey we came up with process X you know we have five residents who want to be part of the pilot to see how it is and how it works and work out some of the exactly so I would say that we would want to follow a lot of the best practices out there in this type of software based kind of optimization process I know we have some Partners in the business district who've been thinking about this for a number of years um so we'll be sure to tap that body of experience I do have a workflow already for a certain zoning permit application uh thank you yeah no worries so that's it everybody's on board there's a resolution on tonight to award it um B administrator York is in touch with the sdl rep um and we can uh move things forward great thank you okay next up uh proposed mcarter Pond committee um following up on the discussion from the last meeting we said give us a little time we're we're planning on coming back to you at the following meeting um we've had a few discussions um the way that I see this I'm looking for you know feedback as well if people would agree with this setup um is a subcommittee uh focused specifically on mcarter Pond made up of uh obviously members of the environmental commission um potentially uh outside of that if we need um additional expertise that we feel is relevant to the situation um and they would be reporting back into the environmental commission that would be reporting obviously back with a recommendation to the governing body um the reason for the subcommittee from my stance is um I do think the pond is in a uh in in a um negative situation right now it looks as bad as I can remember we had a meeting uh very very close to the last council meeting right before it where we got some feedback Brian may be able to um speak to that as well uh that the uh one side of the pond had started transition which meant that we could not have the volunteer day that we were looking to have um and uh we can do some work on the sides of the pond I believe but we can't we can't get into the uh into the South side to to get in there and pull all the vegetation out like we thought we were going to be able to do um you know the benefits of the subcommittee is unlike the environmental commission that's really only meeting once every month is the subcommittee can meet as much as possible we feel time is of the essence as far as intervention on the pond um we want to get uh as many options available to us as possible and uh you know I'm looking to turn this around as quickly as the governing body uh you know gives me an affirmative and uh move this thing along so that we can we can start addressing uh this this uh historical Jewel that we have in town are you suggesting that that the subcommittee would make recommendations because I mean I I I'm I would look to our Professionals for direct guidance on Intervention would you come to this body I course we can so I'm recommending that the subcommittee um who could even ask us for access to professionals make recommendations and advise into the environmental commission who makes the uh recommendation to the governing body yeah the the professionals are already engaged so Chris Nick and Rich and I have been sending around emails I have a good summary of of what I think we need to do at least from from the initial um initial conversations I'm happy to share that if people want the detail or I can give it to the environmental commission um it seems like there's three primary things that will keep on clear it's Hydro raking air Raiders and then chemical treatment and there's a couple of secondary things related to Shoreline management and filters and catch basins I think I have the status of all five of those elements um I'm happy to to go over them if we want the detail I mean I think that's fabulous it should come here so we can take action I don't have any problem with I mean we talked about during the Leon transition having neighbors adjacent to ponds and natural areas reports sort of field reports to the EC I don't know if that would got lot in Translation but that could be the same idea yeah so the 85% of the of the shoreline is privately owned 50% is burrow owned and the burrow owned portion is mowed by DPW and not fertilized um and so the the an obvious win would be to reduce fertilization on the private land but that's private land so it needs to be I think done through education uh is my my sense or recommendation communication yeah will the will the will the will the subcommittee be open to anybody in town that wants to like take an active role I I I I would say that it's not an open-ended committee I think you know in in my world perfect committee is 7even to nine people not too many cooks in the kitchen but enough that you have a a breath of experience and expertise to make a positive impact um I would I would like to fill it mainly um with members that have that environmental expertise um but for instance I think I made a recommendation as one Gentleman on the environmental commission that's also on the finance committee um that I think he would be a relevant person to put on on there just because you know we we also have to be reasonable with you know the expense side of things and what it costs to do things um you know so so um I I would probably lean on on the environmental commission a little bit to ask them who you know who wanted to participate that's where I'd start okay and then after that if if we didn't get you know 79 hands put up from the environmental commission at that point I would probably feel um outside of there looking for some relevant experience potentially some neighborhood representation whatever it might be well it sounds like you'd still need to be able to be in discussion with like the friends of marter pond because they're the people that meet adjacent to the pond so they're the ones who're going to need to know things like Tracy what did you say friends of mcarter pond I wasn't aware of that uh well that's that's I think why this is coming up because there's a you think what what why friends of thearter pond is just like a neighborhood group that wants to be able to partner with government and support but why are you saying you think that's why this is coming up oh maybe it's not I don't know for 10 years this body has talked about marter Pond um and this body last year after 10 years was you know took our first stab at Hydro raping it um we actively have said that we're looking to Hydra rake a second time we've been planning a volunteer day at the last meeting we were we we said that we had just had a meeting with our Consulting engineer give us another meeting to discuss it why why are you saying that that's why this is coming up again I could be wrong but what I'm pointing out is the value of both because it sounds like you want to to form a group for specialized Focus but still be able to be in contact with the neighbors in the immediate area whether it's for information about use fertilizers I think yeah I mean I I think that would be one component of but mcarter pun is used by everybody in town right so I think like it's going to be open for all comments and questions and feedback right so I mean I'm ultim going to defer but you know it's used for the fishing derby right it's there's ice skated right there's more than just used beyond the 85% of of privately own homes don't get me wrong I think they're GNA I think it's be important educate and talk to them right but marter Pond is that entity in town that's used and available to everybody right so we need to create a a collective process to take that all to account and when I look at this committee right I I think this committee should be focused on getting it to a state of maintainability right there's going to be a tremendous amount of work I'm curious on the wetlands right or you know and and and what comes out of that and and you know what that looks like so I think the big missing piece so we're we're doing um various amounts of all of four of the five it's the chemical treatment that was put on hold related to hydro raking um and that's the missing piece that hasn't been done since August of 19 and I know not everyone agrees on whether we should chemically treat there's different types of chemical treatments some are more expensive than others feel free to chime in yeah we had um we had met with the um the consultant from CME uh was counil L and um Nick from DBW one of the things they talked about was an alternative to the chemical treatments and one of those alternative was a chemical called Green Clean um which is another alternative that we could use as oppos to the chemical we were using it is four times the cost of what it would be for the regular chemicals that's one option that we could explore too additionally we're also um since the last council meeting I've been in contact with director Aro from M County as well as John toia from the DPW engineering at County and we have an exploratory meeting this Wednesday out in free hole to discuss you know the possibility of a shared services agreement um director rown had purchased a aquatic weed Harvester um for hydr breaking and the count is looking to get into Hydra raking services so we are in the process of discussing what that might possibly look like a shared service agreement to see if County would be interested in Hydra raking our ponds here in town so um we have a lot of stuff that we're working on um you know to to combat this issue more the committee right I think that's why the committee makes sense there's so much data right and just to digest it filter through it and make sense of it and then bring it back I love it I'm I'm in supporting this how will we hear from the committee or the environmental commission will we get reports from the environmental yes so it would go the my idea in my head is that the committee gets to work uh and makes recommendations to the environmental commission which can you know maybe put the fin finishing touches on it if you will and then come to us with a recommendation you know we've studied the pros and cons of the more expensive chemical uh and we like that or don't like that versus regular chemical or maybe no chemicals but then we have to have Pawn scum is tradeoffs right and so to to educate us on all the options um and what they recommend uh and then put that forward and I would imagine they would work closely with Nick and Rich and so on right guess um councilwoman has been attending via Zoom she's on her way here she has her hand up as well [Music] true hi guys um I'll be there shortly but um I just had a question also about wasn't there some talk about like the Air Raider and we're not using that right now because of the hydro raking um is pause and have we do we have a fountain at all or is that a piece of this to keep the water moving have we considered anything like that that's my question we have we have six airators one is broken because of the hydro raking but the other five are in operation um they're along the center line north south um and the one is broken on other hands to replace that you know we're waiting for the hydro hyd that makes sense okay and are they I mean they're working the way they're supposed to as far as I know yeah as far as I know when the consultant came out we met they are working with the exception of the one that's broken um and obviously um one of the things too I mean you know even in the preliminary talks um you know prior of Med County they they were pretty clear you know in order to make it successful you have three PR approach um which is Hydra raing air rating and also having some type of chemicals in there they said even if you take one of those prongs out you're still going to run into issues um like the alga what we're dealing with right now they say the only way you're going to successfully treat it is if you you approach it with PR approach like what I had described earlier my brain goes right to the pivot point which is the chemicals right so we've taken out 250 tons of material Hydra raking another phase is coming five of the six are raters are working but the chemicals haven't been put in since August the 19 so it seems like that's the missing link um or the thing that's changed is my is my sense and chemicals I just want to like PA chemicals doesn't Translate to pouring poison into the right like you know we the whole point of using the word chemicals just so nobody misconstrues right is to say hey we're going to use something don't know what it is yet to treat the algae correct we used uh MD tablets I think they're called correct yes um and they they change the oxygen levels okay I just want to qualify and clarify is gonna put like shock in there like a pool right and like you know yeah no I mean it's it's a I assume that it's all approved by the njd correct yes I would just add but fin that you we do have a lot of committees this government has formed a lot of committees we have eight standing committees um and we have another 12 committees on top of that and um you know each of us is on a lot of these committees so I this sounds like potentially a model for how that can be replicated say for example for TW C or for the Third Street Trail or for me Shipp is is slightly different but in need of some sort of special information perhaps hand it off to somebody else but if this works um it could be replicated for other areas my um my only and and it has to be said it is said in government you want to look like you're doing something and I'm not suggesting that's what anybody here is doing form a committee um The Magic In what has been discussed here to my mind is that we're willing to provide Professional Resources access to Professional Resources because any guidance this body guess whether it's from a committee or a commission or a board it has to be uh we did in professional guidance which clearly we just got here already so I think we've made Leaps and Bounds but um we've got a lot of committees just want to make sure that it's something that honestly going to be workable and actually help us conquer something I don't want to waste anybody's time I don't think anybody up here does either so so mayor the EC chair is in the back I don't know Sean do you want to say anything or do you have any I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't we too beginning coming just come up to the center just so they can hear you on the owl really putting you on the spot everyone that's spoken so far everyone that's spoken so far takes a donor after they're done correct that's the rule you come up and speak you take a Munch did you hear did you hear the beginning part about we'd have a subcommittee that would have people from EC involved and maybe some others and then report up through the EC and EC would make a recommendation to us that's yeah and so and thank you for including us in the conversation it's it's a good dialogue I think it's obvious that it's a a concern that affects a lot of us and as it's been said it's not just the neighbors obviously they AB but to the B and that's an impactful area but yes we all we all are interested in P's Health um I would just say you know we have a body we have the environmental Council whose responsibility is looking at environmental topics so I I would like um to to to be mindful of of creating more and more and more when we actually have a body that's that's responsible for that that specific topic and I know I'm new to the chairmanship and and U you know working with the members this weekend you there is definitely some some common ground and some some galvanization around revisiting as Chris you you I thought you summarized it really well than you three things that have been done you know it's like when you maintain your lawn and you don't maintain your lawn for two years like your lawn doesn't look good or you don't maintain your garden it grows weeds like like this is just something that needs to be maintained and for different reasons that schedule hasn't been following um you know whereas a committee has been really good uh Russian Leaf as an example getting a lot of people to come together talk about how it affects their part of the neighborhood or where they live is great I feel like this isn't like a different type of of in a life cycle it's in a different spot right we all agree we're all stacking hands there's like one thing we can all agree on is we don't want it to go we want to fix it um having a lot of people share how much they love it is great but I think we really need to be more focused and get a group together of experts that can say if we follow this treatment plan we will get back on track or we have we've so far swayed off that that treatment track we actually have to go look at like options b c d whatever I'm not an expert I don't pretend to be a pond expert I've never dug a pond I've never managed a pond so I'm not saying I am but I am saying that I thought our group of of Volunteers in the environmental commission are are very well prepared to manage that process if you need to and I'll I'll I'll say what I said again I'll get with you offline obviously the next few days get with the commission whoever wants to serve on this uh subcommittee let me know and we'll move that process forward because I do want everyone involved I just don't want those monthly meetings to stop that process this is this is obviously a very important topic right now it's timely and uh you know we need positive intervention as soon as possible and than your point about moving with speed I think is it was a topic at our e our last DC meeting and since then it's been uh I would say daily multiple times a day correspondence between us between Brian between others um there is no idea that we have to wait until our next meeting in order to like take action or we me it's a to me it's it's it's a it's an urgent matter um so if it's an urgent matter it's it's kind of less oh can we all get together in me on a a weekly basis no it's like I need to send up an email we need to get Chris involved we need to get the administration involved because they're the ones that have been responsible and and the most in the know as far as what's been going going on um we can certainly be that that that help as far as extra arms and legs to then look at all right well let's bring another ideas let's start to Galvanize what are some of those other options that should be explored thank you wanted to speak coun just very quickly it just sounds's just very quickly it sounds like there's a lot of uh can you hear me yes um you know there's a lot of great ideas here and it's certainly a sense of urgency I completely agree you know with Dre that we should involve the residents but to me this sounds like a very basic SWAT analysis right like strengths opportunities weaknesses you know threats and we start to prioritize those and what we need to deal with first you know obviously I know one opportunity that's glaringly obvious is how we you know how we treat the chemical situation but to me that's kind of where you start and then prioritize you know from there obviously working in conjuntion or working with the EC but just wanted to mention that because there's a lot of great ideas here but we need to figure out how to centralize them all and then prioritize good pivoting to the discussion of too many committees interesting you said that um the bird sanctuary committee was next I'll just talk to that a little bit um Bon Club does you know a great job with everything they do um what I do notice though is like um you know Carolyn going to give you a uh plug here the Natural Area committee seems to have you know a plan and a process and organize volunteer days and um really really uh a direction when it comes to the Natural Area as a whole and I don't I could be wrong I don't get the sense that we have that in the Harding per Sanctuary um you know I think it would be nice to do that I guess in my plan um we would add a committee that would kind of take charge of that it could be filled up with very similar members to the Natural Area committee um I would actually only put the committee together for 18 months to two years and then in my perfect world I don't know if we could do this I would actually roll the Third Street Trail and the Harding bird sanctuary into the Natural Area committee into one shant committee that handles all three threats I think they're very similar in nature be wrong again without the expertise but um I think that that group does such a great job that if they were overseeing all three um I think I think we'd see a collective benefit [Music] um to to the Bur so that that's what I would was thinking I I didn't want to obviously dump per se the bird the bird sanctuary on you until there was a plan and maybe it was a little bit further along because I think you you have a lot in the Natural Area as it is um recently uh we had a resident that had a nice idea for the bird sanctuary to uh engage I would see in the future something like that being brought to the bird committee and then event two years from now being brought to the larger natural areas committee so that was that was my thinking there I'm looking for feedback from the Council on that idea well I am this is this is really great having sort of a structural conversation mechanics of government how to make it work better and I appreciate you putting it on the agenda to first to talk about it I I I kind of see systematically systemically within our committee structure we you know unlike the commission that has a secretary um a liazon you're tied in directly to government and access to professionals now which is huge thing because that the environmental commission has been missing sort of a technical resource meaning um somebody with um knowledge like you're talking about that on the ground knowledge of whatever whether we're dealing with invasives or um water quality issues but if we're going to provide those professional supports to the environmental commission they can start to actually tackle some things the Natural Area committee does not have any of the infrastructure they have um some funding through the appeal in fact that particular group I think enjoys the highest rate of contribution from Fair almost so um if we want to provide similar supports and expand the portfolio of responsibilities that that' be a conversation worth having I think um just consolidating it and then not providing the Technical Resources and professional guidance um or the sort of administrative infrastructure that's so key to the functioning of any kind group is a difficult um thing to consider so Natural Area does have a DPW repres reprentative that comes and we did get them budget funding uh 7,000 8,000 something along those lines um does Dave Carl come to your meetings is that you yes Dave car sometimes it's not maybe that could be more regular I don't know about the $700,000 the the money for invasives yeah so we did we did send some resour budg that was in the budget I do remember some we this came up before and Carolyn and I know there were some concerns and I I think one of them maybe was how you guys are structured or how it was formed there might be some limitations on what you can is that true it has to do with the actual Natural Area um yeah I mean we certainly would be open to an idea like this there would be details to work out and there might be people we're not in favor of it for one reason or another and we do have a funding source that's kind of tied to the current mission that we would need to manage um I said I think there' be some people in favor of it some with some concerns um I have one question which this might be a total rumor but I thought at one point I heard that the Harding bird sanctuary had something unique in its deed that kind of dictated I I couldn't answer that it's something we'd probably have to get back to him yeah yeah I I wasn't aware of that meaning meaning it's restrictive as far as like what can be done with it taking a note y follow up on that I'll just give an example I know the Red Bank library right it's on the river every now and then people say why don't we sell it with the library in the Middle Town but the people that donated it said that if that ever gets sold the money goes to Prince University so there's like things in the de that cause you to have to Sure manage it a certain way so I'm not saying there's anything like that but I heard there was something in the good feedback we'll we'll we'll find out about it and I want to clarify that part of the conversation the consolidation I I see later later on i' said 18 to 24 months I think the idea is right now and I think possibly also we got to find out like Carolyn just said before we form this this uh potential subcommittee the idea is right now do we want some additional focus in that area so you know about the Garden Club role okay just yeah so so I'm aware of the garden club's role i' actually you know most of them I think left I would like to know more about what what is done in there by the Garden Club because it might be a different um approach than the Natural Area takes in their area so I I'll just I'm not answering your question because I think you're right it would be good to know um I'm not looking to replace what the Garden Club does I'm I'm looking to build on top of it so um I would like to say the Harding bird sanctuary and we should know what the deed restrictions are if there are any obviously maybe it has to be a bird sanctuary obviously right now it's birdless and there are reasons for that some of us understand a little bit about it but um no matter what structure or What entity uh we we kind of need a professional plan like right now the natural era took it upon themselves to um engage the county park services and just really leveraged every potential relationship they could to get guidance in the National Island which is part of why they are so successful um and the bird sanctuary is different from the Natural Area and would obviously if it had to become a bird centu again the road mapap for getting there would look different than what the park systems guidance is for the Natural Area which is a different kind of um wooded open space so it again just going back to that we we need the professional guidance so that we had a plan no matter what layers of support and focus we want to put on it I would just go back to we would need to adopt a plan that would be implemented over time Chris for for this committee and even the committee before right if there's a professional service needed right that committee would reach out they would get the Professional Services in order to answer whatever question may be at hand yes that's correct okay the committee would reach out to us what's the process professional well they don't have access to well not to to the B right we have to obviously we would have to coordinate professionals have be contact with them but how do I mean in terms of budget how does that well that's a lot of and and what would say is if if there's cost Associated just like we have in every other situation they would have to come to the council to get approval for that well I guess so knowing that could you ask if there if we're down for additional focus in that area absolutely but I don't I would like to know like what steps we're taking before the 18 to 24 months that we're going to consolidate the thing so if we know that ultimately that is a plan we know there's going to be money that's associated with that like that we need to have funding for that so those are kind of things like need to talk about now because it's going to come we know that's where it's going to end up so knowing that how do we plan for that now and all those topics like the bird sanctuary the sankers all that stuff and I think that's more the conversation that probably needs to be happening a little bit more now ask she can answer okay what's the what I guess I don't so talking about additional funding or committees or subcommittees or such as that that would have to be a moving forward conversation which would become part of the budget conversation that would start you know late August early fall y for 2025 so not to make any mistake there really is no funding for this year but I I think that timing works because if you get the committee together get the idea start getting ideas then we can start seeing okay this is the kind of funding we need whereas it we wait and the committee's not form till November December you're behind the eight wall and getting money into the bu it could be the same conversation next year we don't have money in the budget and then it's kicked to the so to the conversation to have now is get the Comm together get them to say what they would like and then the council can decide okay we like you know they come up with three ideas we like idea one it's cost approximately x amount of dollars we either add it into the budget or we don't well so we we wanted so I'm I'm seeing a lot of this as like Improvement I imagine the recommendations would be sort of restoration and more Capital intensive and it would be I Vision it as a capital situation not an operating budget the improvements not the support but the the if they say we need to Pi down 600 trees or plant 600 trees or you know whatever so that's something would need to look into to see whether it actually fits into a capital expense yes I'm just going to throw a that is a potential everyone just while we're on this because an alternate route right we have called 100 plus acres of Natural Resources water bodies Rivers wooded areas different types they all need a type of stewardship maintenance and attention and um a lot of the grant committee review work has led us to identify um sources of funding that certainly require a match so it doesn't mean we don't pay anything but if we have a conservation or stewardship management plan we have the basis for which we can submit an application for a grant without the plan you know you could could committee that can't and they don't have a funding request because they don't have anything to even create an estimate but if we have the plan we can create estimates and generate you know costs that we might have to come up with whether it's operating budget or bonds but also apply for Brands so just want to so chime in right I I like everything I'm hearing personally and I want to discern a couple different things right there's a discernment between work to get these to a state of maintainability right from you know the type of use we want at these so that's something we need to keep in mind and I don't think there's any reason why we can't do both in parallel right to do that type of planning will take time but these need help now right and getting the Committees together and and and figuring out what that looks like and having conversations and I would say even setting the expectation of communication from the GB level with what we expect communication to be and funnel up and how often and how frequently is only going to position us to be that better prepared for 2025 because we're going to start putting the budget together in three months yeah four months maybe oh it's July already Yes okay two months so where it takes me back to is that then let's not wait 18 to 24 months like that seems but we're not I'm just talking about consolidating I I don't I don't want to give I thought you were like I don't want to give group a project I want to give them something that's further along and and it's just at that point maybe management moving forward rather than give them a new project where they have to to start from scratch on everything and I would imagine that members from the Natural Area committee will want to volunteer for the new Harding bird sanctuary committee as well yeah if so if they want to volunteer that's great but I also don't want to make it you know here's some additional homework for you so this I I I go back to what Sean and Brian were saying one the word consolidation I kind of like because again we're fairly we do have a lot of a lot of committees it'd be nice to um function in a at least for the governing body they it' be great if these things were all kind of together we do have an environmental commission it does have some Authority it's formed by ordinance it has all the proper linkages to keep it connected with the government and I'm wondering if that isn't appropriate rather than you know consolidating everything under a committee thinking about how that committee can be in connection with the environmental commission it is all under similar cvw rather than thinking about the environmental commission scope excluding Natural Area Third Street Trail and Harding that those are the three entities that I heard you talked about they're really part of the environmental commission's per it's not as though that would already come up anyway as a normal course in business um and it would provide some of the linkages critical linkages that they've been asking you know what I may be wrong but I think where you're going with this mayor is that the environmental commission meets once a week you envision I mean once month you envision this committee as meeting more often and perhaps the environmental commission as a as an entity is not prepared to meet more than once a month so if you create a smaller group of environmental commission members and and other professionals you might be able to meet on a much more f oh on on mcarter pond that's exactly what I was thinking on Harding third sanctuary my thought is the Environmental commission um supervises environmental impactful um uh categories all over the world right they have they have our Rivers they have our you know our woodsy areas our natural areas they have our storm water management uh you know anything that the environmental commission has underneath their purview you but it's hard to say hey environmental commission we need you to be the stewards of the Harding bird sanctuary moving forward that's a lot it's a lot for for a body to just do that so if we can have a very specific subset of people where that is their only focus I think that's to the benefit of the sanctuary the not to the detriment of anything else if we dump the sanctuary on the environmental commission and say you have to take care of this and you have to discuss this that could be to the detriment of other things that um are under their cvw and and mayor time and resources I'll just add to that right because if you you know when I think of thiry Trail Natural Area a lot of these different they all started as kind of grassroot movements right and they've blossomed into what they are today I think this is a similar idea with the bird sanctuary right to initiated Grassroots right specifically focused on this area but what I'm hearing is is at the same time we have to talk about you know what that consolidation looks like and if that's on an 18 to 2ear timeline great start from there and work backwards and figure out what that looks like but I'm I love the idea just to bring back to this I love the idea of having a Grassroots movement people specifically focus in the bird sanctuary it's in a state of disrepair right action needs to happen now and if we have a small group that can provide that recommendations of what to do and start now then maybe in 2025 for the budget that's started in two months um we we we we can put stuff and start chopping way it's the proper order well you're going to get a bunch of volunteers together who are not going to have any access to Technical Resources true that's that's not true so so so this subcommittee is going to be able to we just said they're GNA they're going to get together and if they want to mute the professional re it to Chris and then if there's a cost Associated that it will come back to the goverment body same thing we did with brush and Lea right we needed professional help on brush and Li right so we went and we worked with the ba the ba then got the Professional Resources to bring in make sure that there was a budget so that that that that that lever right will exist and does exist yeah it it does I just Echo what Nancy said too you it's better to do it soon than later inste we can forecast the needs of what that subcommittee might need when we're doing with our budgeting process yeah and one other thing I would like to point out is if there's aove that's needed or they need additional information many entities many vendors businesses will give you those quotes and that information at no cost yes I'm aware of that it's not always necessary that we have to pay a professional to get that information and that's the sort of thing that we can determine what we need and then but the weeds report is an example of what Nancy is talking about um it provides excellent guidance and it's a good starting place um why don't we just come back to this knowing that we may have come up with a way to provide the focus attention and resources minus the budget until we get into it can somebody send the deed out what do you mean to come back to this I are we meaning if you want to do it it sounds like everybody's in agreement but like let's not lose track let's come check in in six months or hear from our committees boards and commissions right now on an ongoing basis well I guess I'm confused about what the next step is though you know like we're saying let's come back to it but what happens in the middle so so next step for me would be to set up the subit That's the next step is to identify it potentially they choose a chair um you know uh and and we we usually have an initial onboarding meeting uh our administrator would be there I would assume that uh head of our DPW would be there um you know and put all Lea on the council would be there um and then obviously the members that have been set on the subcommittee would be there and I think we'd have an initial discussion and sort of set the parameters and the mission and you know from that point it's it's hard to say what step two would be but I think that's what that initial meia kind of sets well there'll be a resolution on the agenda they'll set forth the purpose of the committee right yes so we would set up we would set up a committee through resolution correct on both of these at the next meeting at the next meeting if if we're ready with the names which I hope we are we do have more time between know the next meeting right we one meeting in August thanks just to answer Andrew's question before I'll uh I'll work with Allison and um Andel B attorney and get a copy of send it out to first and I spent some time talking about the complete list of committees that exist at we know it and and um trying to get on the same page and make sure you have that too and Y I don't know may how you want to I just want to make sure you don't lose track of a subcommittee and a committee just I don't want to see get suffocated and lost and would disappear you know these are important topics which is why I know you're putting it on the agenda I don't know what the reporting is going to look like but maybe we can talk about that separately yeah develop that's that's something that that uh would be discussed with the um committee Lea on as well and um I'm sure it would be a discussion that first meeting committee Le on Harding bird is Betsy correct Betsy patch bur council president and then FL parter fond will be Brian because of the environmental commission um actually what we discussed was councilman Co um but I'm leaving a second spot open uh for Brian I would love to be considered just the whole environmentalist thing I would love to be part of this and being that I don't have any actual committees or like under my belt would be great I mean I have committees but nothing that like actually reports back for let's let's talk offline about that there there might be some quum issues there but we can have that discussion okay how would be a quum if it was Brian me well Kristen we were saving the spot for Bri the mayor's on makes a issue I get it but like okay happy too uh next up we have a workshop session storm water management ordinance land use yeah um so last year um we did some work um and identified in the storm water management order specific to storm water runoff from an addition um there was a a little bit of a loophole um so the way the ordinance reads as of today any new build the square footage and don't call me on the the technical language but the the square footage of the storm mot to run off on the roof can't be discharged into the street but for an addiction it can and so last year um governing body multiple boards were engaged to include environmental was like November 17th I can't remember the exactly um to look to close that loophole um so that additions if you added additional roof that that storm water had to be discharg to the same standard as if it was a new build I.E not into the street um so the ordinance language was brought up PN in and then ultimately was tabled um and given that we're now coming into the second part of this year wanted to to resurrect it again send it out to everybody it's it's a paragraph um legal last year looked at it so we'll have to go through legal review again I'm sure we'll have to go to environmental again go landy's board again um but it is a loophole um and given how storm water has been a priority this is another one of those levers that we want to make sure it didn't get lost want to get her all done incorporated into yeah Fair yeah good point U are we gonna do that oh no okay so this is you're saying in anticipation of our next wave of amendments this is something we want to start to look at now no separate from that so originally it was supposed to be part of the First Amendment and somehow it got dropped so this is only one paragraph changing six words oh so instead of waiting on the state guidance to come in and adopting it to whatever the state says and then refining a little bit further right because the last ordinance was getting it completely in line this takes it that one step extra further and and breaks out a very small chunk of it so that we close the loophole and we can take another action towards storm water so that will be circulated next week uh defer to I defer to use because I did look up the ordinance that prohibits piping your storm water into the street it's very specific there there is a little loophole though to your point yeah so that you should have the language that the lawyers chopped off on last year we'll have to Circle back with environmental there's a land use angle here um and then obviously it's land use loss I think that's the whole 60-day and right it's gonna take a while but want to resurrect it all right sorry clarify is it going to the whole it should go to the whole govern yes corre okay next up uh public comment on agenda items only please state your name and address for the record please observe a time a three minute time limit thank you hello Muka 14 L hi Elise Casey 263 Road um uh we have created a little Advocate Group called friends of mcarter bond recently um we here and we really appreciate you guys taking the time the set up the council and again we love the thought of what you guys are going to do we just want to voice a couple concerns as you're putting counil together and things for you guys to consider um one of the ones the first thing is hydro rating I know we've done it twice in the past um two different the one and yeah right but we only tell one I can't comment what one time but it does seem after the first time that it got worse kind of seemed like it pushed kind of spread everything around move the spaghetti around the wall yeah right and so now we kind of have a path from our house over to the other side which is nice but um right the other the other part we were thinking about in terms of the buls this used to be kind of from where we live all the way across there's a deterioration of B head and I didn't know whose responsibility that is right is it are we allowed to repair those is it the towns um on my side survey it basically goes to my fence line but not the V so I don't know if I'm allowed to fix it those kind of things great question I think those are questions we need to get answers for you I do think that in the past I've seen residents doing their own bulkheads I'll also say that one of the issues you know I'm I'm assuming that eventually this conversation will move towards should we dredge the pond one of the conversations that I had had is that was a concern because certain bulkheads that residents put in are to a certain depth and then you're dredging much further down than that is the bulkhead then going to collapse is it going to cause an issue based on that so we got we got to get an answer for you on that but ex I think that's why we want to come up and just kind of throw that out there that while if we're not included on the committee how do we kind of get back and forth so we understand what's going on and we can kind of relase our s about certain things and just provide for you that and and and and that might be one of the beauties of a subcommittee is maybe there's representation on that subcommittee from someone that's reporting back into your uh friends of M that' be great and and if you reach out to me your email address I'll get that answer by hhe okay just give me your property address and everything okay yeah this is um we had our first meeting last night which is a wonderful get together with just neighbors that surround the pond and we are here to help you guys um and work together um now a big education piece to it where we could be doing better as far as what we're using for fertilizer and sides and um educating just the surrounding property so we're here to help yeah I yeah I think you can have buile that information as well in terms of doing a survey for everybody you what we use to do our Lawns how do we treat them all those different kind of things to help expedite the so process I I just want to also make clear um I know we keep talking about surrounding properties I'm pretty sure some of those stor water drains on adjacent streets also flow into the pond they so it's it's more than just the homes that are running the property where the pesticides are having the effect so the education program needs to be further out than just course 45 Acres of drainage area drains into 45 45 AC yeah the main two drains are 14 and foret then across the two big times right on either end so again whatever information whatever help that we can provide you'd love to do that want to be involved in anybody have we would love some uh someone from the group to be considered for the committee possible yes let's have that conversation okay greates apprciate thank you thank you very much good evening jennifer5 I want to thank you all for your service and your countless hours that I know you put in uh to keep all these projects coming along and keeping in town finding as well as we do and thank you councilman Co and mayor he for responding recently to me on an inquiry about me they having Lo project the phase two of the project which is the sidewalk that will go from um from marter Hond all the way to the end um to Buttonwood um we're all for bike safety I Clos the schools school safety and bike safety I town an excellent job and what a track record um but we feel our area of fa hav Road uh is so quiet I think we've had one trigger treater in three years it's a very quiet we're sad about that but there really is no I mean I know I don't know if Studies have been done of pedestrians and and um bikers but we don't have you know we're the end of the road and we don't really have anyone down there um so for those 15 residents that are going to um give property and have maintenance of sidewalks uh they would love to do it if it was necessary and they feel that it's not necessary um I've spoken with um almost all of them over the weekend um and they just feel that the uh two bike lanes that are proposed um a sidewalk and the dirt path it seems excessive um to get to the to the other sidewalk or get up to school um and we know that we like to keep the kids safe and that they're usually being funneled down to that crossing guard so hard to get crossing guards for other you know Des Crossways that we they like to meet their friends and they like to go down Buttonwood and in the end they're really not on Fair Haven Road um I had twin boys my daughter at a double stroller I never had a hardship getting just across to the dirt to the dirt path which is under the planton cherry trees um we think that's the safest way to go um and again we did speak with um over 10 residents that don't want the sidewalks they did sign a petition and I wanted to submit to you of their concerns and there were concerns that they felt that they wanted just a little bit more input and could someone meet with them they know it's on for approval tonight to be awarded but is that still going to be discussed of any additional input for those resents input as far as the specific design why there is a Salk may not be needed and the majority of do not want it right so um just to shed a little bit of light on the sidewalk so I'm going to first talk our Master PL plan which is really gives us a guide towards how to manage the bur arean so it reads the safety of pedestrians and those on bicycles was in the public Consciousness in the 2005 master plan reexamination report this is 2016 master plan um the integration of safe routes between neighborhoods Recreation areas and the business district was was identified as a priority these issues were name Val respondents typically travel to local destinations by car overwhelmingly so at nearly 90% however of those respondents with children in the local school district over 50% stated their children get to school via bicycle the remaining were roughly spit SP spit were roughly split between walking and being dropped off nearly 23s also stated they would walk or bike to local destinations more often if pedestrian and bicycle facilities were improved for safety and convenience then additionally in the Fair Haven act active Transportation plan which is from 2017 um the sidewalk Network the streets including this targeted inventory provide longer continuous corridors across the burrow create an interconnected Network Andor provide direct access to Major destinations these these conditions uh can discourage walking contribute to unsafe Crossing conditions reduce driver awareness an expectation of pedestrian activity Andor create impediments to Mobility for some residents major roadways in Fair Haven that lack sidewalks include portions of Third Street portions of Fair Haven Road and then it continues to list a few other roads as well um in addition to that uh at the last council meeting maybe it was two Council meetings ago um not that that's what drove this entire project uh but we heard from residents um you know there's been two or three accents on faan Road in the last month and a half one gentleman almost lost his life um you know the the the residents in general um the feedback that I've gotten I think I think I don't speak for everyone but I think most of the representatives up here is that um the burrow as a whole is looking for more more walkability um and safer routes to school for their children so when we look at like your part of the street we are also taking into consideration obviously the bottom of bottomwood as well as Beachwood and any young children that might be there um and them having safer access to school and just you know it's anecdotal because it's just me I do run on that street um I can give you an example that there's one car always parked always on faen road um and when I'm running since there's no sidewalk there I have to run around it into the street which sometimes I stop and I take a look um I guess my concern is is is the is the child doing the same thing to actively stop take a look what's coming um and I I totally appreciate the passion of the neighborhood I guess where I end up being on this and the reason why I would probably support it which I think I've told you um is is God forbid something ever happens to a kid um I'm I'm the one that ultimately answers to it so if I can um make that road as safe as possible uh for pedestrians and cyclist that's that's really the only reason um why I would support it by think it's a pretty good reason we appreciate the point because have the one topic that is 100% fle that's everyone agrees 100% safety and the bike safety for the kids we all agree on but I would think you would need to look at it individually and and the necessity of it um one point is you guys are making the dirt trail behind the cherry trees so for any Walker um on F Ro or Buttonwood you could cross the street and walk behind the cherry trees and then connect up with the sidewalk on that side of the street so you have full access to get to uh to town from that area and additionally if um like what we always did the going back toward Buttonwood is the safest way to to walk in that direction so if you took and then you're installing a bik lane and a shoulder which we don't have when it comes to safety of Walkers I think you have alternate side of the street you have access down button with and you have the the shoulder that's going to be installed the bike L which I think will take care of that you consider the few numers Walkers it just seems extremely unnecessary and especially wasteful and when none of the majority of the resents there do not want it so so we we did discuss um the crossing of the road the issue is in order to get to sickle school for a young child now they're crossing the main road twice um and let we don't have any plans right now for a crossing guard in that spot obviously that's another expense they have to cross went down button which to go to SES I me that's a safe I mean I would I mean if I live anywhere in the area I would not really want my child walking or biking on P Road as their main uh travel points I mean traveling down Buttonwood in the back roads is 100 times safer than going down fa road so I think the children's need stage from using that as a route which is probably why not many but scenar where a child would walk into CLE where we you're located at I know we talking about I know um but that the bike Lanes we actually had an accident up further up where um I don't want to name names but a person pulled out of their driveway and struck a child who broke their leg and that's these people these 20 15 people are saying oh my goodness now you're putting a body plane up against the my exit my erress you're encouraging more drivers you're encouraging more bikers and that's beest so also create another problem like we trying to solve one problem you can create another one because um and the same with our daugh once fight that was her she almost got hit from the car back and out of the drive so that creates other dangers if you you try toot children to go down a sidewalk that has a lot of driveway traffic um you have another scenario that could cause issues so we like the bike Lanes like on Ridge or on River I think the bikers that do a straightway or they're exercising or the cyclist or the bik cyclist people that go fast but we don't really see it there that it's going to be useful and that's all we wanted to add so that road is a major connector between two County Roads right River one and we know we have bike path County mapped bike trails on both of those County Roads faen road is a primary connector for that but big picture of we zoom out um and I don't know exactly where your house is but big picture the intention of everything from the ATP um as informed by the master plan is as our mayor said is intended to calm traffic on fa Haven Road and that's done by narrow cart which achieved with the shows and the bike lanes and the shoulders and the sidewalks and Street trees and all of these things collectively help to calm traffic it exactly to address the concerns now I understand what you're saying about sidewalks at sidewalks help achieve that the curb the sidewalk definitely it's this is known I'm not making this up this is guidance it's science traffic standards and so on um all of those things help collectively especially when we start to see the regular rhythm of pedestrian crosswalks vertical running running cross as you're driving right now you kind of have an open straight away um but when all of these new improvements go in it's going to overall improve and calm traffic and make the roadway feel safer it's going to alert drivers to the presence or potential presence of pedestrians bicycle whether they're even there or not are you on um are you between Hill Crest and Buttonwood I am I am ACR the like up from Buton wood right so the idea of um the crosswalk and sidewalk network is to complete it so that the trail um in the Quan on cherry trees is actually part of the sidewalk and pedestrian network but if we can't get sidewalk to curb to to pedestrian crosswalk to that trail guess what we don't have a complete Cog now so it's all part of a whole even though I totally appreciate what people using it seems so unnecessary and crossing the street um not an issue I mean any of people in our area I mean you could cross the street to go to the trail behind the Chevy trees I mean the traffic is not that need we've had a lot of actually I don't know about everybody else but um I had a lot of people ask about crosswalks to get to the Natural sidewalk sidewalks itself just seem completely unnecessary well we can't introduce a crosswalk without sidewalk why can't you do a crosswalk I mean it's the crosswalk I believe it goes to Buttonwood he not on the way sidewalk on the right but Farah is a primary connector where spot goes more of a tertiary it's a lower level street with low traic volumes we also feel that it's also very residential where we get like hands and we have a four3 eth grade where everyone's riding their bike and we have a church which is a big parish and there's no bike no bikes I look at Great Road To The River where everyone's going fish and crab the bip plane just seems a lot a street that is very quiet most people turn off before they get each just their whole so I we don't feel that um that's why I think some of the residents find a little bit more input because they didn't feel it it really is that busy and we want everyone to be safe of course um but we didn't think that the 15 homes with sidewalks had that weight of an impact but I do see the big picture never found out let me throw in there to outside of the safety just I don't know if this helps but um this is from uh ARP uh interest in sidewalks is so Keen that they've become a factor in home prices for example in the scenario where two houses are nearly identical the one with a 5 foot wide sidewalk and two Street trees not only sells for $4,000 to $34,000 more but it also sells in less money I'm just pointing out that you know sidewalks aren't a detriment as far as the value of your home they actually enhance the value of your home I don't know if that is coming into any concerns from any of the residents littleit about natural area in the bird sanctuary this themes ju Theos that type of overdevelopment that look Aesthetics is my last thing when I wor about safety but that really isn't the Lo of fa road with the pond with the Natural Area it's quite the opposite to us it looks a little bit like Urban Coastal like SE bra I'm going to Tom's like I'm just saying it doesn't I don't think it does actually help I think it makes it look like a busier Street in some people's minds um so I don't know if I would agree with that I some people do like the sidewalks um about the engineered edges whether it's curbs and sidewalks and street signs and speed limit signs it makes it more suburban and less Rural right exactly and I know that when this this in 2016 you mentioned when it was put up for a vote that that if I remember correctly it was split that it was there was not really a consensus is that am I accurate on that that it was a split vote that there were people that voted no and that the ex- mayor was the tiebreaker on this plan if I'm correct are we talking the active Transportation plan or the the plan you were referring to so I thought there might I couldn't I couldn't answer to but but it just seems that I mean I know you guys are acting off that plan from six seven years ago and you're trying to do the best of the presidents but I think there needs some um logical intervention at times to balance that plan is it really necessary need to the money or resents want and I don't think that's true for sure well when it when it comes to balancing the money it's part of if I'm wrong I don't know if Rich's here to correct Me Maybe Nancy can it's part of phase two of a grant award that we got so there's no cost to the burrow fa all right I mean it still seems wasteful to do a project that no one want so I I I respectfully I I hear you that you don't want I hear that there's other residents that don't want it but I I would also um guess that if I asked the other you know uh 6,000 residents in Fair Haven whether they could get a sidewalk there at no cost and make use of it and certain children uh would have a safer access to schools they would probably be in favor and that's how we tend to make the decisions that we do up here is is this decision for the best of the entire town it's not for the 15 getting we don't really make a decision based on 15 we make the best decision um for the entire bur and I think I said this to you online so I'll say to everyone like would I want a sidewalk in front of my house I'll be honest I I probably wouldn't I probably wouldn't but I I also would say I would love a curb in front of my house and I can't have one so there's there's give and take to different areas of town um based on circumstance uh you know we got a lot of this we I wasn't here but I remember from following along the other side of faran road got a lot of the same feedback um closer to mcarter park when they put the sidewalk in on that side it was UN necessary no one really uses it anyway why are we doing it and and all the feedback that I've gotten um from the community is that that was a home run so um you know that you guys have been I'll be honest I get a lot of Resident interaction and the hos have been as first class as I can possibly even describe and that's why it's even hard to be up here and have a different position than you so thank you thank you thank you right much so that's pretty much a done deal or is there going to be well no it's everyone's I mean it's up to each individual member vote if anyone else wants to reply in any way you're welcome to just clarify that the benefit um so you's saying like you want to walk I mean walking from Buttonwood to across the street to go to the be cherry trees the connected um how is that any what what is wrong with that compared to having my my concern is a uh you know a 5-year-old that lives on Beachwood that wants to go to sickles in the morning and now they have to cross to the other side of faan road go all the way down to cross back go down or their other option is to go up up Buton wood right go up up on wood I think that's why wanted to talk a little bit because we know that a 5-year-old wouldn't go on but the parents are crossing you know the parents would um I hope you'll consider it I ask feed what what I would say is it sounds like there's more residents that want to discuss I'm assuming this issue so why don't we discuss why don't we allow them to discuss and Brian if you want to Circle back after I'm sorry what was your name I'm sorry my name is Mitch Cox I live at 365 this is my wife Sarah W we actually you sure over the weekend uh so we are not as prepared as the HR because we kind of were arised of this a couple of days ago we didn't realize I mean we had heard that this was this was in the Rumblings but we you know we didn't know that it was actually imminent which it appears to be so um uh we just like to give you the benefit such as it is of our experience living at this address I think we mentioned in the email we have we raised two daughters from infancy um we had you know used to move them to the town center and the dock at the at the end of fair load when they were strollers before schools uh they went of for the sickles and no wood and uh you know was never an issue I believe I believe when they went to C they um did what Mr how just mentioned and they went by way of and sort run when they open up right by so I guess we're just kind of um we're we're perplexed because we weren't notified of this now we have to respond to this within a few days and there's a consent agenda at the end of this meeting I can't understand why this wasn't made known to people that it affects the most the other thing is I'm concerned about the vegetation that are along the road there are several trees our property does not have trees we lost them during standing but there are other people who have vegetation trees even a statue along there and they'll have to pull all those down and I really am not in favor of doing any vegetation down um lastly we I just for context we've lived here for 30 years and we're well aware of the traffic on fa Haven Road s Road River Road practically any Road in FA Haven yeah one one point I would like to make is that um you know I understand the argument is that the M presence of the sidewalks and crosswalk will tend to I think I think the argument was will tend to decrease the traffic on Fair hidden Road isn't that sow calm calm okay uh except the problem with that is it doesn't seem to be worn out by the other streets in be me h Road generally is considered to be busy fairhead Road and it's it has sidewalks and has had sidewalks and certainly River Road is the busiest of all and it has sidewalks of the whole length so um if anything I would think that the kind of uh um Country Side aspect of Fair Haven Road has actually cut down on the traffic so I that particular argument I mean I I listen to all the arguments uh and uh some of them were reasonable but that particular argument I really don't think at least in the context of fairhead the town of fairhead I don't I don't think it's uh it doesn't change the volume to your point it doesn't change the volume of the traffic the number of cars that it has been Chown to C meaning a slow Vehicles the vehicle slow down slower 25 M hour doesn't work well it should that's the idea 25 miles per hour on that road that's right it it has to be 2 think I think the other thing that is not being taken into account also is that uh par Ro especially the the uh the southern section of it before it h River is actually wider kind of widens up and I think more than anything yeah I think more than anything uh that would be a factor yeah I mean I'm not I I don't think the cars drive faster on well they lower it certainly wasn't the case they're faster on than they were on River Road but then L the spe speed Li River Road but I think the widening of the road is probably the fact that more than anything has has becoming opposite of becoming and I add one thing we walked to the doc fairly frequently I walk up on the left hand side of the sidewalks that's the I guess it's the old part of Fair Haven the sidewalks are in terrible condition I nearly fall on them and have to walk into the streets and we're so concerned about safety why AR we fix we talking about it is on Fair Haven Road pass River Road when was the last time you did that um probably over the summer or last brick they were they were already fixed the brick yeah so we fixed all those as part of our micro projects those are already done okay I I actually I take almost daily walk to the to the to the dock there um and the ones on the as I'm going towards the dock the one on the left side of the road I mean that it's hard to believe that that sidewalk has been repaired that isn't pretty been repaired to look down for about a stretch of about 100 yards you trep the the only part I believe that hasn't been prepared on that side of river road is the very end on the right side in front of the property we just acquired because we're unsure yet of exactly what we're doing with the property so it didn't make sense to spend money fix that not knowing where we're going we'll go walk in and we'll take pictures if you find that it's not absolutely I if if you want a walking partner let me know I'll join you and I guess I guess the other thing I would say is that I I don't entirely the argument I this was made by Brian Brian H there already is a pathway on on the on the on the beaden field side of the road you know the upper part of beaden Road and that is going to be developed into a walkway to like what would put down Stone I guess to make that more of you know more accessible I guess doesn't get rained out of money so that will be a Four Season walkway along that I don't understand why both sides of the roads need to be populated with uh with sidewalks if you have um you know um that that path along along the fairen field side of the road and and if if this if there's a concern that it's not going to be a you know it's not be smooth P or it's not the kind of thing that somebody WR a B on then it seems to me that that you know that's easily so I'll just pave it yeah well we can't we can't pave the other side because it's part of the Natural Area um but I I hear your concern I mean I you know I don't really have anything else to add to what I responded to br on but we appreciate your [Music] time Jeremy 297 Haven Road adult 301 Haven Road I live right on Hillside and Road and I have two kids right every time I have to get out go on the bike ride with them I have to either cross the street which people don't go you know or I have to make a left and drive ride the bicycle with his kids you know on the road to go to what I find it extremely dangerous not having youill I'm on Hill Cresent and I'm actually really pleased and really grateful that you guys are we're going to PVE the road but I think it's um it's necessary toally for safety and I'm the neighbor right next door to him and I have one young child we have two dogs we take weekly walks and same idea we have across the street and you know this town is pride so it's V ability it's plank ability and this is the one stretch of the town where it feel like we are disconnected from all that uh may you probably don't remember but when you were making your effort you're not going this m door possible and you knocked on our door we had a brief conversation you asked us of one thing You' like to see this town you know do we said we love a s right here so we were thrilled to hear about this you know there especially during the summer there are kids teenagers walking across their La at night that's fine the issue is there should be a sidewalk it is dangerous uh and you know one thing I'll agree with the first people that spoke yeah we also had one trick-or-treater and we think it's because we're disconnected from and we would like any more think it's only imposter that kind of Community thank you doesn't guarantee you trick Rec because I live on River Road and for some reason my block it's no Tri trick orre this year the two street that um my concern really is your M's M I'm sorry do I have that right or no mooka mooka Yesa yes I remember meeting you yes hang on one second guys I can't I just can't hear her if everybody could just be quite public please now my concern is the safety you know ter the road being on that corner you know we're very aware of it and one of the concern was the thing that was talked about was a possible bike lane and I think that would be very dangerous right now is a home getting out of our driveway you know we've got to look for traffic and worry about possibly heading a child I I wouldn't want to have to have that stress also um I've lived inav in that house for over 35 years and there the road is changed the speed limit is 25 and the average speed that's maintain is like 40 to 50 miles now now my feeling is some of the money could be better used trying to either enforce the speed limit put speed bumps or something toer Speeders and you know the um the the the corner of Ro and redroad is also very dangerous if we could have a traffic like there I think her money would be very well spent during that b and my only concern with and approached upon by the town twice and we put a garden where a tree had been because we wanted to make lemon lemonade out of lemons some and we're afraid that the sidewalks are encroach again those are our main concerns thank you for your time go ahead sorry I just wanted to comment on the fact that we're not opposed to anything that will um increase safety for community in any way but as was mentioned the roads who have the the B planes Bakers aren't always friendly um and have the s walks are the busier streets and unless something's done about the contractors at 8:00 in the morning doing 45 miles an hour down faen Road it doesn't matter if you have sidewalks don't that sidewalks it doesn't matter and frankly I'm out there I'm watering the garden and at that hour they are not paying attention and if they had to stop I I nearly saw a truck take out a bus the bus was legally stopped to pick up children light splashing he wasn't paying attention he stopped about that far from the book you know that's not an isolated the we have to do something about the traffic rather than increase it we have to somehow control it as part of the program we were not aware of the program and we chastised the council a little bit because a lot of work went into I realized that but there's residance that it affects we should have been informed we should have had a little input it would have helped you not created the evening that we're we're here to help here to work together a long main it so thank you for very time thank one one just one note on um what you mentioned I believe that we've asked the county to take a look at that intersection so I don't have any answers for you yet but um obviously that's a that's a County Road uh Ridge Road so um they're supposed to report back and hopefully hopefully there's a needs to start have to the other thank you I now one person is taking a donut so I had to ask question so great 26 Fair Haven Road um I just wanted to reinforce a couple quick things about the McCarter Pond subcommittee um just want to really thank Lise and Michael who you know work with a bunch of passionate residents who are living nearby who just wanted to get involved um so it's just really great getting us all like organized um just want to say like in your consideration for those committees for that one the third sanctuary um I think Council MRE you had mentioned the word like Grassroots um you're not going to find you know a less like passionate group of people who are going to try to do the work that needs to get done um than the people who have already been raising their hands so I just ask like please like really consider like the residents who have been like really like trying to to make a difference and people can learn you know the skill that they need to to make the appropriate recommendations to the EC and other committies so just I would just ask for that open consideration the other um I just had two logistical questions as follow-ups as well um would be great if we could get like maybe a follow up after the council meeting today about how we could apply to those subcommittees in town no matter where they live so I think that'll be informative for everybody and then um after they're formed for those residents who are not on the Committees how they can still get in touch with the subc committies and still be involved because that fion is not going to go right so and obviously the closer you live to any of those things you're gonna care a little bit so just couple HS I was laughing at your donut joke so I missed your name oh what's that oh Ray Geo Ray G gu yes thank you thanks you just take like stanza taking the road um one SP behind there was a the Dual uh Recycling and there was like paper and the bottles and things like that and I bought another can so I wouldn't have to do the swap out I only put one can out on the street and but I have two cans are you going to charge me $400 you own it wait you have a can that's not like the normal blue recycling everyone else one I cardboard right other paper newpaper actually may thiser and the other one is just bottles and yeah but why why are you separating them now because once upon a time we had a duel we had a uh dual system you could only put out no I understand that but once upon a time I shouldn't make jokes like that I took someone of the prom but I don't take the pr dinosaurs walk the earth you can only put out right one at a time so instead of like putting it in a ordinary can and then swapping it out I bought another blue can right okay now and it's the same as our cans yes I have two blue cans he's wondering if he only tipping every week but he didn't get the can from did he get the can from Fair yes yes oh he did get the they delivered it went over to the DPW right okay I got and they so if you if you return the can to us you wouldn't get charged of $400 is that your question no the question is what should I do your blue can everything goes in one you don't need to you don't need to separate I I know but for me it's better that I put all the cardboard in one and then put the bottles in the other then when I have enough cardboard and stuff I put it out there'll be a four $ P that's that's that's a decision for you to make but yes you would be charged $400 for second kit okay then how do I get my money back you your money back for what I bought that k i I'm not sure you would get your money back why not I bought it the time how how many years ago did you buy the can when they had the DU and do you know how much you spent on the can why don't we why don't we have Chris why don't we take a look into this and we'll we'll get back to you can return you can definitely return the can and not be charging $400 as far as getting the $55 back we we're going to have to look into what the agreement was when you purchase it we we we'll if you don't want give my money back I I have so I can sell that problem too so no don't don't destroy it um okay it's my right just point of clarification they'll only pick up our cans correct yes well it's it's the claw it's the uh so like if someone it's abandoned so someone just had a regular can out there they cans they can get that could be picked up and are we charging them just for they can only pick up our and and just and just the double click right so everybody knows why right can you can you just provide uh the feedback as to why that tipping fee is now there and the contract and what not has the information so well as we discussed at a previous meeting um the issue that we may be having is that if we are not successful in getting an exemption on our Waste Services the council may have to make the decision to go to bi-weekly recycle and our concern is that potentially some residents that may not need a second recycling can will just ask to have one because it's a convenience and if we have too many residents with double cans we could potentially be outside of our contract that we were quoted on which could have a detrimental Financial impact on the burrow so to get ahead of that we're putting a fee on the second can so that only the residents that absolutely have to have a second can make that request this is not um this is not a means for us to drive revenue or anything like that it's a means for us to adhere to the cont but you also have an enforcement problem because cans are usually picked up early in the morning and the guy who's picking him up is not going to know whose can is what what you really need to do is get a little decal stick it on there so that it will say FA hav 22 24 something uh garbage and the other one recyclable so two detals basically if that's the case and then would solve your problem because if if the if the uh property changes owner then you have to go the other can because maybe the the new owner doesn't want to pay $400 and then you have a Administration problem cost yeah we we we do have a process for getting the cans back I mean we we we have been doing that we sent out on the garbage cans we sent out like two months ago letters to all the residents um letting them know what the charge was if they want to return mayor may I say something I kind of agree with you because you have two cans but you're only putting one out at a time so what difference does it make if you has two or three or however many cans we're only being charged for that one can that he puts out when it's being picked up he is put them both out the same puts out one time the problem is regulation of it right so the only way we can and everyone doing that puts out two cars but no you can't put out two you can only put out one how how are we going to force him only putting out one he seem like pretty no I I I'm I'm I'm saying my sidewalk too let I I haven't heard this objection let me go back to what I said before Can You Reach Out by email to the Chris and we'll and we'll have that discussion thank you for raising very much appreciate yesan already but uh I just want say first off to say thank you for considering about the the support for Mard Pond friends fond and um want to reemphasize the importance of that and uh definitely appreciate the the urgency better this part one question I have is regarding theing and specifically with the second round com up is that set in still or there an opportunity to put that further off until then we have so that we reallocate we we haven't made any decision to to do anything um the the next step in the process truthly was that volunteer weekend and now it seems like that's not our best option and that's why you know immediately we're like all right we need to we need a committee to form and determine what the next option is um so to answer your question is that a possibility yes I will give you feedback that about a year and a half ago I asked what is the best practice you know because I sense from some of the feedback I got from people that dredging was a better option than Hydra raing the feedback I was getting was uh dredging is probably the better option but there's a lot more Hoops to jump through to get to that point I guess there's a lot of certifications and um you know yeah different certificates you need to get and then the next step is the financial side it was I don't want to get the number wrong it was a crazy crazy number it was it was we're talking not Millions we're talk I'm sorry we're not talking $90,000 talking Millions that's that's the number I got so that that's why I mentioned earlier on that you know I think it's driven by the environmental Commission because I think that's where the most expertise is I do think that there's probably some other people with expertise in the burrow that could help I think there's some passion right on the pond where you know when I did knock on doors across the burrow that was a very graphic specific form of feedback that I got I heard a lot of people talking about the pond in that area so maybe there's opportunity for for uh residents like yourself to join to that committee as well um and we're going to consider all that and then that committee is quickly as they can uh provide options that's what we want and then in the meantime our B administrator Mr York is in conversation with the county to see if we can hire it government hiring government to hydrate if they have the capacity to Hydra rate meaning the equipment Manpower and expertise um that's a very um that's a very efficient approach to service that might be a fit for that's more financial background right we keep emphasizing Hydra raking versus dredging just because those mean two totally different things so I just wanted to highlight that yeah and then forget about Miss so with the Hydra rating say try to push thatf I might no no you're good you're good that off Dre I'd rather save the money for Al Che awesome thanks for the feedback ad3 Oxford that was my question but I was already standing up so um but I did I did want to say I I kind of I don't live on the pond but I did crash the meeting last night and um I'm always amazed at how many um residents we have that are willing to get involved and give up their Sunday night to come and talk about issues that are important to him to them so thank you Elise for for getting that together um totally psych that there's a committee being formed um and so yeah that was my question was did we consider dreading I know you said there were maybe some issues with the bulk head um I know you talked about the three prong Pro I also wondered about the actual kind of structural issues um I think one of the and again I learned a ton last night talking to Residents who are there every day and they see the changes uh you know the one of the storm drains was plugged the the I don't even know the drainage pipes are maybe too small we've all seen the flooding that's going on at the pond so hopefully we're also looking at that piece how can we what kind of structural changes can we make to going forward um lessen issues and then I I did learn from one of the residents who was in here that that chemical is actually it's a if it's what you're talking about it's a bacteria that will actually eat the silt um and it's has a much less of an environmental impact it sounds like it might be a lot more expensive but it might be something worth considering if we get a longer kind of result from that as opposed to regular chemicals so um I have stacks up night so don't don't just may if I just can right so those those observations right those those anecdotes of what are happening around are so critical because then the professionals right can go investigate and determine if the pipe is too small or confirm if you know we have fourth quer treat under there so more of those anecdotes and observations I consider them like leads and evidence that then professional then can go investigate and come back and and help them for and so I hope that you will consider the members of the of the friends committee as as part of your committee because there is a like I said I learned a ton last night you know people like Michael was actually on the environmental commission as well I think she would bring a lot to it um there's so many great smart people in this town that just want to help so we're really lucky thank you thank youh hi 7 plan rep um I just had two questions uh one was the software like what's the current state of software here do we have any are we got swapping from older to newer really have nothing is there so let's refine the question is there any software specific to automating process like we're talking about yeah everything is manual and paper okay great information question you're a p i Am EXC then the Harding bird sanctuary uh like we kind of came in mid conversation right like do you guys have an a goal or a problem you're trying to solve no I I I think the um what I would say is the problem I'm trying to solve is I don't see an overall Steward of the Harding bird sanctuary and when we started talking about mcarter Pond um in more depth uh and seeing how that deteriorated pretty quickly I mean it's been deteriorating over years but I really seen in the last six months to a year I see a huge change there I don't want to wait until it gets too late in the Harding bird sanctuary and I also see it as one of the jewels of the burough Fair Haven and if we can see some you know uh very specific improvements to that area I think that maybe more people will make use of it okay you know Council M Cole made a comment that she hasn't seen birds there I can't speak like specifically to that I've only been in there once or twice but I do think to myself if they're not there and we can find a way to get them there that could be something that would drive residents to the Eartha so it might even be a requirement when we when we do get the deed and see how the language is what's in it what what is stipulations it might be and I'll just say to you we our we are all the stewards right when when we sign up for this steing our resources is a part of the job um whether it's identifying leadership properly funding or identifying the right professional prare the plans um whe that's done at the commune level ultimately that's body uh we share that stewardship responsibility that's what you're see um where where's uh someone might know this there's a back entrance to the burn Sanctuary where is that what street is that on it's har haror there's a back entrance to the bird sanctuary y sort of like there's a third street trail back entrance like to Fair Fields it's the same thing these are some of my goals that I had the entrance is between two homes yeah yeah I'm sorry it's an empty lot between two homes there like legit lot it's not like third sheet Trail side entrance on HRI is description if the if the goal is based on the stipulation and the deed you know it is a bird sanctuary and must be maintained as a bird s we're talking about reiring a a wooded area C of exy yeah yeah well it's not like releasing fish in a pond where we could no you have established the habitat that support that life cycle more all right that attract correct go ahead thank you for the kind words about the Natural Area committee I think the committee is fantastic go your uh words on that uh you know that we have we present an annual report every year um and uh you know we strive to the effective and one of the things the points we've made is that we feel like we don't really have two a communication with the borrow um so yeah we've asked for some consistent point of contact at the borrow we don't have that we think would be important to be like we waste a lot of time chasing things down that this got lost or you know we talk to one person the other person doesn't know it um so you know our formal request was for two hours of admin time a month all we're really looking fors one direct contact that we can always talk to so that anyone wants to know what the current state of our Affairs is they can go to one email folder and see what's been going on um and kind of related to that uh the Fair Haven Road Phase 2 like nobody shared any information with us and that's immediately ajacent to the Natural Area we've also extended ourselves to try to advocate for the Cher Tree Lane and it seems like that's impacted also carollyn can I double click on that for a minute or to jump in so I had a distinct conversation um on on this side of the house where there was a specific correspondence back and forth with the Natural Area on her versus no curb uh fence versus no fence trimming certain trees all that information was per the Natural Area that came back no I'll tell you we in our annual report for the past three years we've asked for a length of curve to prevent water from coming down Beachwood and causing erosion in the Natural Area I did get an email saying we weren't going to get that and they were implementing some the other plan with no details okay I was under the impression that that that it came from you that not putting curve there was actually better and then having like some type of it was it was wild flowers so that's a proposal from the DPW so there not to us okay said all we know is that we were told we're not getting the Cur I think that there is a conversation with Nick that could be very helpful because Nick was involved in that particular piece of this and he explained in a very careful way um an up if you want to call uphill diverting water you know so that you don't get the same velocity of water that a roads be curve that exposes The Roots um and that's one one piece of a solution that a curb would provide but there were other parts of this that would include triming back the trees in the Natural Area to open it up to create more sunlight on the Cherry Tre and plant a wildflower Meadow to continue to absorb the water the extra water so it was multiple Parts this whole idea is was called Green infrastructure it's not hard infrastructure that a curb is but I think it it it's would be appropriate for um I'm just gonna yes um I mean I just Tred to give you a description but I think Nick is going to be the professional to really explain that for in in a way I know is written down that we can share with the committee members we can get it written down I'm not sure I'm not sure we have a few right now um but I I was also in the meeting and I would agree with you that for years the discussion was occurred um he very eloquently in that meeting broke down from like five different angles why this was a much better plan environmentally you know strategically what whatever you want we accept all that we're just looking for information we'll get over you yeah we'll do um I'll email you tomorrow email address I'll put you in contact with Nick do an introduction no we I mean we meet with him about once a month or so um every month or two we do a maintenance and some of those ideas about the Terry trees are actually ideas that our committee members suggested but um but if there's a plan happening right somebody could just read out to us and share some information all right thank absolutely thank you car good Mar hi3 um just I looked up the Harding bir Sanctuary so here a couple of little Snippets of what I thought might be interesting information to add to tonight's discussion this is a long time ago this is from the pr and it was written in 2013 so things may have changed slightly but it does say that this you said patch 20 2013 no no I know Pat I'm just referencing The Source patch 2013 thank you says the Harding family donated the land excuse me in 1950 with the stipulation that the premises hereby conveyed shall be used only for f and playground purposes thus making it one of the first pieces of preserved land in Fair Haven they go on but there's a lot more interesting information but at the end it says the Harding bird sanctuary was registered by the national Autobon Society in 1956 and thanks to the dedicated efforts and hard work of a garden called The Fair Haven it has remained a fully preserved and well-maintained Oasis so just to give a little can you email can you email the article to us playground is that what it said we should get I think that might be something to look into because playground doesn't necessarily mean what it means now yes I got you and if it was in the 50s that means it was 20 something years before Fair Fields so wow that's cool yes 63 fa um I have a question are there any always stops plan for Haven Road fourway there's one four-way intersection we have a few things in that we're working on and that one okay we have a few things through to that we looking at stops and stuff Haven okay so to answer your question the council has not discussed this but the chief makes all the safety recommendations may I like the whole time yes allly can you hear us I can hear you can you hear me yes okay um just going back to all the Fair Haven Road talk and planning um I agree that traffic needs to be severely calmed on our street I live at the corner of Fair Haven Road and Dogwood and to me the speeding issues are just out of control um after the horrible accidents in the last couple of months I just I don't understand how it's not a bigger initiative to reduce these issues in a more timely manner I understand the Fair Haven Road plans are coming out I've looked at them but it just seems like we've had a lot of issues and we're not on a good path um to me the plans don't address the speed issue um I have a couple questions after reviewing them like are the sharrows and the bakeling intended for our school AG children to ride to sickle school because any anyone anyone that's um a student at sickle school is um of the age that they can ride their bike on a sidewalk correct yes so okay so then our is the sharrows are and the huge signs for the share of the lane those are for adults who are B in down the road well adults or what's the age for the sidewalks he thinks this well so so it be uh children 13 or older could potentially make use of those who were adults okay and just like a separate comment to that like reviewing the plans are seem to be abundant of the share the road signs where I feel like better usage of signage on our street would be more speed limit signs actual radar signs that show your speed that you're going you know I've seen these all over towns it says your speed if you're going over it it says slow down just other signage than share the road biking um other comments that and it's great to hear from the chief that he just said there's still input but I wholeheartedly agree with Alise about the stop sign at the four-way intersection um and I've noticed that there's been stop signs up around town on Kemp and Fair Haven Road historic district and Third Street so I know mayor I spoken to to about this like I'm just wondering about all those going up and we're here pushing for um other safety issues and pedestrian safety issues on Fair Haven Road so I would strongly consider that and would love to keep talking about that um also I've mentioned speed bumps because I feel like that I've heard okay well there's plows have issues with them and um other towns around here don't really have them but I don't understand like I feel like they're proven to slow down traffic and to avoid accidents so if we could reconsider putting those in cuz I I live here the speeding is out of control I love that the police are monitoring more I see them on our street more but it's it's crazy people hit my garbage can all the time people just speed by I won't even let my kids in my front yard so I just would love some more safety help thank you Ally yes uh will I was going to save this at the end but U you're talking about safety you go to will okay if you go to eat Town they've already solved the problem with the speeding by putting in not speed bmps with speed HS okay so you take 35 sou P McDonald's take the first right you'll start running to these FS and it slows down the traffic totally because in the old days people used to use eat town as a shortcut to get to to 35 and stuff in the back so you don't have to invent the wheel again just put in those H C the space along the curve so the water can run and the problem solved and you need them on uh Fair Haven Road then you need them on uh an Road between and River Road because they use as a cut through to get to5 I we we we'll discuss it with the chief and those stop signs that you put up and the stuff people are rolling already seen it over in near the do area they're there further first couple weeks people stopped and now they're just so they're not working thank you for your [Music] time right Ruth you there I'm here you're there have been for a couple hours um I just have a question with these new electric bikes basically they are a hum if you can hear them at all and I live on River Road and I often go out in front and trim my property and on more than one occasion almost got hit by a person on a bike that I did not hear coming and there's nothing wrong with my my hearing but in the old days bikes had Bells as a courtesy do you think you could put in an ordinance as as if you got a bike put a bell on it and use it um well I I don't know about that but I can tell you you um that right now electric bikes are a huge issue um I said it at the last meeting I've seen probably 20 more instances of it since then um I'm speaking to parents I know when I'm saying this right now I've seen your children riding an ebike in a way that you would not be happy um I'm very very concerned like extremely concerned that uh we're going to get a bad phone call one of these days so please talk to your children even adults please please be careful with these electric bikes they're aching to motorcycles um without without your child needing to get a license or take any of the courses associated with with uh with having one um Ruth to answer your question at the next council meeting um I'm hopeful that we're going to be able to introduce uh an ebike ordinance um I'm not sure it's going to have anything about bells on it um but there will be some restrictions that hopefully will improve the situation okay my second issue is several several weeks ago probably at least three meetings ago you assured me that the light situation on River Road was going to be remedied with all the gray boxes and this whole thing was going to be taken care of and you said specifically within weeks well it's been a number of weeks what's happening well I meant within weeks one more week than you were thinking um I I actually happened to email the B administrator about this this morning I noticed that the timers weren't matching up on each side of the road um I believe that we had a b engineer wi it tonight that was going to or sometime this yeah I'm already in contact with uh Nick from DPW um sending DPW Cru out to coordinate all of that there's also a concern about the color um our lights it's the color effect is not necessarily our lights it's a jcpnl lights so I put an email to Frank Luna the coordinate in order to get those bulbs changed as well great he sent us the the order form and how we're to do that so so in the process of getting that done and with the exception of installing the new posts which are on the LI correct yes the work is complete complete the end of that roof is there's a few there's still a few posts that need to be replaced really there we still waiting for that order to come in once they it comes in they're going to be installed but there are an awful lot of gray boxes out there are they all poles yes yes wow ni a random question about the lights so there's specific but on the corner of Colonial Court and Smith Street there's a light that I think is sensored but like waits till I'm right underneath and it's it happens to be a very dark light are they all sensored like how is that supposed to be a sensor motion sensor or lightens I don't know because it's like off all the time the jcpnl lights are light sensor they're not motion sensor is it a jcpnl light it might be probably you know what I'll do um I do a ride around every morning before I come in so uh Colonial SM right check it Tom check out cuz it's so dark and then I'm like well that was useless Jason PL lights are not censored they're censored for light but not censor for motion so I I'll look at it tomorrow Michael Michael um the lights in the Acme parking lot at night I think after a certain hour are on motion sense so if it's if it's if it's the back of the shopping center could it be one of their lights it's across the street though it's on the other side okay all right maybe somehow it's connected I'll check it out all right thanks yeah Alison anyone else no sir Alison I did get one email um can I read it real quick Ronald candria sent us an email um he was having connection issues with zoom that kept freezing up this is about eik safety concerns of fa Haven and I'll just read it real quick says thank you all for hearing my concerns in an email I did join this evening's meeting on on Zoom stayed on quite a long time found the video freezing quite often audio was a bit better still not satisfactory did not feel that my sharing through Zoom would be effective so I decided to leave one thing uh I will add one thing might the police department consider if not already doing this doing stops and safety checks of riders exhibiting unsafe behaviors this could be most valuable with the fastest throttle controlled class 3 ebikes by discussing safe riding practices with stop Riders checking if they're an age requirement to wear a helmet and checking to see if there are age permitted to ride class 3 ebikes even contacting Riders parents if Riders are not supposed to be using that class of bikes that is from Ron pandrea we already are stopping somebody that is improperly using the bike you can't just stop just AG anybody a helmet or so there new initiative where L donated uh a couple hundred cards of uh free slice of pizza and the officers are going out and either are doing the right thing or get a that's nice that probably 10 years ago and then we just started it now um just last week so they are already sto them the parents were appropriate and also awesome great job Chief thank you L thank you l um so I also have an email here someone that um is unable to attend tonight's council meeting um I'm just going to read their questions and they are generally in favor of sub but they have questions or concerns I'm just reading for the record so we can get back for them or um and this is from Bridget mlan at 345 fair fair Heaven Road with the addition of bike Lanes which will make the street even more narrow what is the plan for the speed limit if there are bike Lanes does that mean guests to our home will not be permitted to park on the street in front of our house will the town be responsible for upkeep of the sidewalks if the sidewalk needs to be replaced due to wear and tear will that burden be on the homeowner what additional signs will be added to the street and where will our tax assessment be lowered since we now have less profit well no the sidewalks are in the burrow right away that one I can answer immedately um and I see Ronald's email as well okay uh anyone else Alison no ran did you have someone else what is the answer for who's in charge the sidewalk as far as if the sidewalk starts to deteriorate it would be the burrow that would need to like for instance we just fixed fa road down in the historic district we just fixed Gentry sidewalks that would be the burrow as it relates to if there's a snowstorm I think there's like a 48 hour period in which the homeowner does clear the sidewalk of snow yes yeah you're not allow and it's definitely necessary to have a bike L just one BL one part of the show or is it a [Music] dedicated is it a do I don't had last last meeting we had the plan yeah I'm here Rich can you speak to that to whether that's a dedicated bike lane or shos the block button the the bike lane goes from Ridge Road to Hillcrest on both uh travel Lanes heading north and south and then north of Hillcrest it turns into the sharrow which takes you to River Road to tie into that bike bike Network so the bike path is only going a couple blocks it goes from Ridge to Hill crest um correct like like bun Wood's the first right you make off Ridge Hill Crest is the second one short at the top of the hill are is there plans to extend it I'm sorry I missed that piece of it on it's what he's saying is the and I might be getting your question wrong the bike lane goes from Ridge to Hill crest and then at Hill Crest towards River Road it becomes Shadows be continuous you can't do the enre I think when we have I think when we have shs it's because the width of the road rich is that correct it's it's the width of the cartway or the paved width and RightWay considerations parking on the street do you park there now and you can't park in chars also I get I kind of get their question though like why do decide right there to make it a bike lane wouldn't it be more consistent to be the sherow the WID I get but if we can't it's that's the point of a and Rich you should probably walk us through this but where we have the width it's always advisable to do bike lane a bike lane a dedicated bike lane and if you can't accommodate it then you should showers but up you would help us yes that is true so as part of the design when you you look at the pavement widths that you're dealing with because we have pre-existing conditions here anywhere you can try to lay in a bike lane to the standard for that type of design you would try to put in a dedicated bike lane it goes to the same um feel of what Tracy mentioned earlier in the discussion earlier about traffic coming it Narrows the travel Lane it allows a dedicated bike lane or safe passage between that it's it's like a it's like a shoulder stripe between the edge of the travel Lane and the curb and it it's no different than what we did on River Road on the down by Red Bank we added a bike lane where the pavement was wider and allows you to lay one in there it's the same type of design and then as you transition back into the other section of Fair Haven Road we transition to the shos so you you incorporate these different Design Elements um to increase p and bike safety and I was going to mention earlier when we design these streets we're designing them with The Pedestrian and bicycle in mind we're not designing like we did 20 years ago to get a car from A to B as quick as we can so anytime you can put in these type of complete Street initiatives and Design Elements to create traffic caling to create driver awareness to create pedestrian and bike safety along with appropriate signage high visibility striping the crossw walks all the things we've talked about especially as you approach the um the school areas and all the other improvements that we've done um in in recent years we talked about the sidewalk we added we talked about the improvements at Third Street we're enhancing the Third Street intersection by use of striping it's an economical way to do so it's an effective way to do so and more importantly it fits the design initiative that we've been doing throughout the burrow in other areas on some of these other streets and it also it also falls into place remembering that we did get considerable money in excess of 900,000 from NJ doot and they endorse these types of projects and promote these typ types of improvements I feel for you because I know what I Ro you see how it's snowballing that it's snowballing two bik lanes that no one's going to use and that 15 resents W be able to FR of their homes that's the point they're going to lose substantial Dage especially and and CH now residents that live in the woods and there's no res on no one's going to use that VI never see anyone come down that direction from the street and that's what upsets us but it's the residents that are paying the price we're not getting anything from that I know in a perfect real world in a perfect drawing in a busy town maybe or visit yes but there those really will not be used and we l for and that's better than should time the white down side I think you can have continuously in trun if ask the engineer it's breaking up I couldn't hear him from the back of the thaner like every other so if you stripe the edge of the travel Lane which I think you're talking about which would be creating a shoulder that shoulder would not be wide enough to park a car car legally so when you drive down Fair Haven Road now and there's a car parked or cars parked along the edge of pavement or existing curb line chances are or not chances are um the paving the pavement width the travel Lane withd is not to proper standard so if we stripe that line and you see this on a lot of the County County Paving projects they've been putting in these these shoulder lines you're not going to be you're not going to have an eight foot shoulder to park to have as a parking Lane you're GNA have more of what is left over like we propose a bike lane you know four to five feet in width the the right away the the the cartway width simply is not there to do that but it sounds like you're parking there periodically I say separate from parking why why do we need the Shadow bik Lane so simple just having road with white strike outside to separate the bikes I mean you might get a different answer from other people but my answer to that is when you look at our master plan every every master plan has a transportation or kind of circulation component the circulation component of fair Haven's master plan which is our road n that's our guiding document isn't about cars it's about bikes and pedestrians the fact that that circulation element doesn't primarily address cars tells us that the infrastructure improvements that we're going to apply for brand Flore and what tax dollars towards is towards improving the infrastructure supports pedestrian and bicycle circulation that is a Hallmark of the community and recall that when a master plan is written it's driven in large part by Resident contributions repeated Outreach and feedback from the community along with the technical authors who prepare it but it's driven by the community when it's prepared so that's have a major harmark of fa Haven and it's the reason that we prioritize bicycle pedestrian infrastructure I have one more question but in the history of doing different streets and doing different things range was slated for sidewalks no sidewalks no curves all natural what's the difference in this scenario that one neighborhood the majority of people don't want the sidewalks they say doesn't work also have this on hand so they didn't want they want so I H so why is our our voice of our 50 individuals okay it's a little over 10 not the same as the res other streets I'm just asking for the counsil to respect that I can answer I have a different response than other members of the body so I'm speaking for myself um that was a different governing body um I wouldn't if that happened now I would I wouldn't um I wouldn't support that situation um where uh you know you end up with I've used the term before in here a Frankenstein Project a project that's not completely designed in a way it should be for safer streets safer access um storm order management uh the whole the whole mcgilla so I hear I EXA I definitely hear what you're saying um I feel as if uh I said um personally I'm talking for myself tried to set a precedent that we wouldn't do a project like that again um we we have a burough engineer for a reason that designs these uh roads to certain standards we did take feedback from the community um I could tell you the meeting we had two or three weeks ago uh was 100% dedicated to trying to apply feedback trying to apply all the safety standards in a reasonable way there were other safety ideas that were brought up that for different reasons we passed them um so you know every project is not the same but from from my specific personal Viewpoint um you know we we shouldn't let uh one neighborhood dictate a project um that could benefit the entire bur that's just my answer that one more perspective thatford um just on the bike Lanes we were talking about how fast people drive down H I've also seeing how fast people bike bikers that are biking um you have a two block bike lane that suddenly meets the road and so my concern would be a I feel like a lot of the folks that are biking are from out of town they see a bike lane they're picking up speed and all of a sudden your bike lane ends and you have a speeding driver you're all sharing showering the road um I I don't know like seems a little counter intuitive to me but just something to consider that everyone's going to be picking up speed and then all of a sudden that fight lane ends and the cars and the bikes for me being in the road um it just does I don't personally it doesn't it just seems a real thank you Stephanie anyone else right uh moving along to approval of minutes July 8 2024 regular meeting July 8th uh 2024 executive session do I have a motion to approve second alate please have a roll call Co yes yes she yes um old business hearing adoption ordinance uh uh all in favor I anyone opposed is there anyone up here that has any comments on this is there anyone in the Public Public comment on 202 24-10 Alison is there anyone on Zoom no I have a motion to close motion to close second all in favor I anyone opposed I have a motion to approve motion to approve second second Alison may I please have a roll call yes did you get me because I wasn't here no no this is we're voting on this start yes yes yes yes yes and I'm going to take a moment to give a compliment to um uh Allison right now is I can't remember the last time she even like made a little slip up so that's it's a compliment how great you are at this I mean that I second that all in favor but she's still mad at me because I pointed out her I'm not all right uh next up we have a facilities update councilman La bar has a few things to talk about yes and we'll try and be as safe as possible um DPW sighting if you recall there was a drought in Mexico that prevented the color um the uh it's over the drop the Dr that was the original color everybody stand up get the blood flow and be good um the the recommended color from the professionals is there um the St the DPW siding um the stone hasn't changed the M hasn't changed the white trim hasn't changed um but that is as close to the original color 8 to 10 week lead time and then keeping with the spirit over the last 18 months we wanted to make sure the governing body was aware and vo any comments questions concerns looks great okay great job um maybe a bad idea do you think there's some sort of like interior decorator in town that we just run it by we can we run it by no am I wrong we ran it by the professionals design I love it let's go well yeah a trout and and it that speaks to the next thing so if you recall BFI is the furniture provider last year the budget was approved Etc and so the furniture um has a 12we lead time is fully color coordinated right if you remember the professionals the interior designers all that went from the roof all the way down to the piece of furniture Police Department's blessed from Chief um DPW is blessed from the DPW team the community center Furniture was blessed from here so the furniture will be ordered just want to make sure the government body was aware but it it all goes on time within Budget on time and within budget love that um long-term parking so this is the long-term parking design for fish Chapel we're going to be having our kickoff call likely in the next few weeks uh the Improvement the the design uh excuse me the uh professionals have been approved the funds have been encumbered so this is is to kick off the design call with our fish Chapel stakeholders want to make sure he's tracking um back Community Center I'll come back next time we can do those next but we don't have to rush list to just for Spirit time wait what did you just say about the do the community center content for the plot you're do at the next meeting oh sure and then Bas off you're G to do the next meeting sure okay um so that's it for facilities um Brut and leaf we're going to be assembling the committee again um and looking to take in all the feedback that we've seen to date so the request the governing body is is any feedback that you have please point it to uh bur administrator York he's going to compile all the feedback residents our own feedback Etc the committee will take it digest it and we'll look to have recommendations so that we can do next year better because there definitely areas that we can improve for next year um one small offer the um we're sort of still within the new program calendar year feedback now is great can we also understand that they'll be feedback towards the end I think by the time we're doing rolling Leaf you know heads be clear we'll have a year under our Bell we might have better picture check check 100% And as we discussed nothing will be printed on a calendar unless we all agree and not not only do we agree that there's a resolution that approves it and uh B Miss York and I had a conversation uh about that and it won't happen thank you you're welcome welcome that's it m just for Spirit well uh okay so we're good so we're going to move into new business introduction of ordinances 202 24-11 amend ordinance number 20247 land use and development regulations comply with njp storm Warner management rules so this this ordinance went to surrounding municipalities and to the county when it was introduced it was also sent to them upon adoption and that's when the county decided to make comments it doesn't have to go through the same process of the 35 days because it's not it doesn't affect the ordinance in anyway it's just the title and doesn't have to go to the pl board or we could just it's a Dom change perfect any have a motion second Alison may I please have a roll call Paul yes yes yes yes yes thank you 24-12 create Capital ordinance for police car purchas I have one question on this Chief how are we putting the thing together like didn't we used to use um yeah we have a local our repair shop is that but but it's we used to do it ourselves so now we got to pay the shop I assume right is that built into yeah okay thank and if if and if the governing body recalls right when we were dealing with the budget challenges this year um going from lease to the capital purchase was one of the levers we pulled to make sure that we were within budget yes that's correct okay so just want to make sure everybody has the background this was budgeted for adopted planned for so Chief what's the lead time on procurement um actually they they have one stock so beautiful motion to approve 202 24-12 second yes can I have a roll call please lover bar yes I'm moving along you did not call my name I did too did you just did you just say that she made a second mistake I did not call my name there was conversation it was because of his joke let's start over Paul yes yes everybody has yes yes thank you um consent agenda resolutions 2024 184 through 195 I'm just pointing out um you know it doesn't mean that we can't continue awarding this contract for p doesn't mean we can't continue the discussion on the design with our B engine here right uh and and may if I recall right that the approval tonight like we're at the last day for the do grants corre this is just about awarding the contract and locking in the Grant and the fact that they're going to do the okay yeah so um does anyone any questions about anything on the agenda yes it's less than the original was found in con than RCF yes good job 200,000 thank you um do any any questions first on anything on here does anyone want to separate anything on the consent agenda no uh any make a motion to approve motion to approve second Alon M please have a roll call call yes yes yes yes yes okay thank you next up Department reports Jun 2024 does anyone here have a motion to accept the reports possibly with a thank you motion with a thank you second favor I anyone opposed no uh let's move along to good of the burrow please stand and identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please observe a time limit of 3 minutes is there anyone public comment sorry good to the Burl the bur no Alison no one has their hand all right thank you uh we are moving towards adjournment we we don't have the exact session oh all right welcome we're adjourning tonight at 9:42 p.m. motion motion second all in favor you --------- all right let's call this meeting to order at 7:03 pm. we're going to start with the salute to the flag I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from Bur all 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of July 22nd 2024 is available by calling phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2024 133 and sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 4th 2024 post on the B website the bulton board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to conclude this statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison M please have a roll call Council memb call herec joining us later councilwoman ho here counc h here bar here here and we have administrator York attorney M Chief MCG and engineer is V Andy okay A little bit of housekeeping real quick councilman La Barbara has put some Dunkin Donuts on the front table so anyone that would like some Dunkin Donuts feel free to help yourself we're going to start out with a presentation um our wonderful Garden Club received a very very uh amazing award um and I would like to do a proclamation in their honor is that wow how like colorful are they dressed back there if if you wouldn't mind want you to come all join me up here okay this is a proclamation congratulating and recognizing the Garden Club of faan it reads whereas the B of faan would like to congratulate and recognize the Garden Club of Fair Haven who received the Garden Club of the Year silver trophy from the Garden Club of New Jersey and whereas the fan Garden Club has given countless volunteer hours to the B of bar and many organizations for many years and whereas they have been involved with the American literal lalal Society clean ocean action friends of Rucker Gardens Foundation M conservation Foundation Habitat for Humanity and the New Jersey autool Society to name a here and whereas the Garden Club makes the burrow wreaths every holiday season they plant and maintain the planters Memorial Park to complement the various Seasons as well as provide assistance in The Parting bird sanctuary plant flowers at Bicentennial Hall and provide floral arrangements for Meals on Wheels and whereas they give out scholarships every year to rson Fen Regional High School student will study horiculture agriculture or enroll in any in an environmental curriculum and whereas for the past 10 years members of The Garden Club of Baran have driven through town identifying front and side yard properties with Gardens that contain colorful and attractive flowers or P culture and whereas a list is provided each year by The Garden Club advising of the properties that they would like the mayor and Council to present with the random acts of beauty award and Proclamation got that email today now therefore be a proclaimed that I J Hal and the burough Council of the bur Fairman wish to congratulate recognize and thank the Garden Club of for their time and talent making faan a beautiful place to live work and play thank you quickly on beh of Cl thank you it's been our privilege pleasure for almost 73 years to be a hard okay uh moving along first Workshop session sdl system are you taking that yeah I can provide the background so 14 to 16 months ago uh we embarked on a journey to evaluate a piece of software uh for the burough Fair Haven that could do a handful of critical ends um automate and optimize process SE um digitize where appropriate uh facilitate transparency uh with whoever may be submitting an application no matter what kind it is um and really um those were the three um so with that Betsy and I uh started looking at and working closely with the previous bir administrator uh bettyanne uh Alice and Christie um a variety of different softwares the first one was Civic now um and the second one was sdl um an evaluation of of both of them took place with with the staff um and sdl um was ultimately identified as the most uh appropriate uh for Fair Haven and and for a handful of reasons um first being is that the Construction office in Rumson uh already uses sdl so all of the required data uh block and lots residents Etc is already in the system um sdl comes with all um what I would call White Label processes because it is a piece of software that is widely used in the municipal Arena um there's a handful actually more than that there's there's quite a few wh labeled processes zoning permit tree fence take take take your pick there's there there's a lot um sdl also uh helps support and automate Fleet Maintenance uh vehicle maintenance road maintenance and it's all within the confines of the software that exists um the processes because um we want to go step by step um that we want to look at would be uh fence uh generator tree and the zoning permit application so the technology is the easy part the the the the the the the time and energy is spent on napping out the current processes of what they currently are as of today optimizing it and then transforming it into the software itself um we had countless resident input over the last 18 months about frustrations with a variety of different processes and transparency and what have you entirely cloud-based solution um there's an app for it um and when we did the demo um it if I submitted application X um I would receive notifications when it was received I would receive notifications when it was reviewed I would receive notifications when it's approved I'd be able to have the transparency to see where it exists in the process from start to finish and all of that is I'm going to say templatized I'm not going to say customizable because then don't need you know do I need somebody coding on the back end it's literally plug in P pick up these different components of a digital workflow put them in the sequential that we want um and roll with it but it's a template you need to be yes 100% all of them will be modified is proba the word to what is best for Fair Haven they give us a white label to start with but we will ultimately make it hour process Fair Havens process so assuming white label turn on that a template yeah that mean exactly um can you spend 30 seconds on if we uh wanted to differentiate or um discern between a residential M permit application process and a commercial Z perent application all of that functionality exists it comes down to what is the requirement so if our requirement is hey we want to discern between residential and business we want to discern whatever discernment we want to make we can build however many workflows that we want um directly integrates with our website um yeah it all comes down to the requirement that's correct yeah uh already in the 2025 budget so we're not seeking for funds out of this this was part of the finance committee one of the line items for Tech uh this was in there um yes it's already budgeted already budgeted for because again we've been 14 16 17 months we've been working on it and just to take the question about differentiate one step further knowing that it will be a template but customizable toen do you foresee and I know he touched this um bringing some stakeholders in to help identify what those deficiencies need to look like okay yeah I would say yes right and and I would even go as far as like in the private sector right we we would do soft launches right as well like soft launches where hey we came up with process X you know we have five residents who want to be part of the pilot to see how it is and how it works and work out some of the exactly so I would say that we would want to follow a lot of the best practices out there in this type of software based kind of optimization process I know we have some Partners in the business district who've been thinking about this for a number of years um so we'll be sure to tap that body of experience I do have a workflow already for a certain zoning permit application uh thank you yeah no worries so that's it everybody's on board there's a resolution on tonight to award it um B administrator York is in touch with the sdl rep um and we can uh move things forward great thank you okay next up uh proposed mcarter Pond committee um following up on the discussion from the last meeting we said give us a little time we're we're planning on coming back to you at the following meeting um we've had a few discussions um the way that I see this I'm looking for you know feedback as well if people would agree with this setup um is a subcommittee uh focused specifically on mcarter Pond made up of uh obviously members of the environmental commission um potentially uh outside of that if we need um additional expertise that we feel is relevant to the situation um and they would be reporting back into the environmental commission that would be reporting obviously back with a recommendation to the governing body um the reason for the subcommittee from my stance is um I do think the pond is in a uh in in a um negative situation right now it looks as bad as I can remember we had a meeting uh very very close to the last council meeting right before it where we got some feedback Brian may be able to um speak to that as well uh that the uh one side of the pond had started transition which meant that we could not have the volunteer day that we were looking to have um and uh we can do some work on the sides of the pond I believe but we can't we can't get into the uh into the South side to to get in there and pull all the vegetation out like we thought we were going to be able to do um you know the benefits of the subcommittee is unlike the environmental commission that's really only meeting once every month is the subcommittee can meet as much as possible we feel time is of the essence as far as intervention on the pond um we want to get uh as many options available to us as possible and uh you know I'm looking to turn this around as quickly as the governing body uh you know gives me an affirmative and uh move this thing along so that we can we can start addressing uh this this uh historical Jewel that we have in town are you suggesting that that the subcommittee would make recommendations because I mean I I I'm I would look to our Professionals for direct guidance on Intervention would you come to this body I course we can so I'm recommending that the subcommittee um who could even ask us for access to professionals make recommendations and advise into the environmental commission who makes the uh recommendation to the governing body yeah the the professionals are already engaged so Chris Nick and Rich and I have been sending around emails I have a good summary of of what I think we need to do at least from from the initial um initial conversations I'm happy to share that if people want the detail or I can give it to the environmental commission um it seems like there's three primary things that will keep on clear it's Hydro raking air Raiders and then chemical treatment and there's a couple of secondary things related to Shoreline management and filters and catch basins I think I have the status of all five of those elements um I'm happy to to go over them if we want the detail I mean I think that's fabulous it should come here so we can take action I don't have any problem with I mean we talked about during the Leon transition having neighbors adjacent to ponds and natural areas reports sort of field reports to the EC I don't know if that would got lot in Translation but that could be the same idea yeah so the 85% of the of the shoreline is privately owned 50% is burrow owned and the burrow owned portion is mowed by DPW and not fertilized um and so the the an obvious win would be to reduce fertilization on the private land but that's private land so it needs to be I think done through education uh is my my sense or recommendation communication yeah will the will the will the will the subcommittee be open to anybody in town that wants to like take an active role I I I I would say that it's not an open-ended committee I think you know in in my world perfect committee is 7even to nine people not too many cooks in the kitchen but enough that you have a a breath of experience and expertise to make a positive impact um I would I would like to fill it mainly um with members that have that environmental expertise um but for instance I think I made a recommendation as one Gentleman on the environmental commission that's also on the finance committee um that I think he would be a relevant person to put on on there just because you know we we also have to be reasonable with you know the expense side of things and what it costs to do things um you know so so um I I would probably lean on on the environmental commission a little bit to ask them who you know who wanted to participate that's where I'd start okay and then after that if if we didn't get you know 79 hands put up from the environmental commission at that point I would probably feel um outside of there looking for some relevant experience potentially some neighborhood representation whatever it might be well it sounds like you'd still need to be able to be in discussion with like the friends of marter pond because they're the people that meet adjacent to the pond so they're the ones who're going to need to know things like Tracy what did you say friends of mcarter pond I wasn't aware of that uh well that's that's I think why this is coming up because there's a you think what what why friends of thearter pond is just like a neighborhood group that wants to be able to partner with government and support but why are you saying you think that's why this is coming up oh maybe it's not I don't know for 10 years this body has talked about marter Pond um and this body last year after 10 years was you know took our first stab at Hydro raping it um we actively have said that we're looking to Hydra rake a second time we've been planning a volunteer day at the last meeting we were we we said that we had just had a meeting with our Consulting engineer give us another meeting to discuss it why why are you saying that that's why this is coming up again I could be wrong but what I'm pointing out is the value of both because it sounds like you want to to form a group for specialized Focus but still be able to be in contact with the neighbors in the immediate area whether it's for information about use fertilizers I think yeah I mean I I think that would be one component of but mcarter pun is used by everybody in town right so I think like it's going to be open for all comments and questions and feedback right so I mean I'm ultim going to defer but you know it's used for the fishing derby right it's there's ice skated right there's more than just used beyond the 85% of of privately own homes don't get me wrong I think they're GNA I think it's be important educate and talk to them right but marter Pond is that entity in town that's used and available to everybody right so we need to create a a collective process to take that all to account and when I look at this committee right I I think this committee should be focused on getting it to a state of maintainability right there's going to be a tremendous amount of work I'm curious on the wetlands right or you know and and and what comes out of that and and you know what that looks like so I think the big missing piece so we're we're doing um various amounts of all of four of the five it's the chemical treatment that was put on hold related to hydro raking um and that's the missing piece that hasn't been done since August of 19 and I know not everyone agrees on whether we should chemically treat there's different types of chemical treatments some are more expensive than others feel free to chime in yeah we had um we had met with the um the consultant from CME uh was counil L and um Nick from DBW one of the things they talked about was an alternative to the chemical treatments and one of those alternative was a chemical called Green Clean um which is another alternative that we could use as oppos to the chemical we were using it is four times the cost of what it would be for the regular chemicals that's one option that we could explore too additionally we're also um since the last council meeting I've been in contact with director Aro from M County as well as John toia from the DPW engineering at County and we have an exploratory meeting this Wednesday out in free hole to discuss you know the possibility of a shared services agreement um director rown had purchased a aquatic weed Harvester um for hydr breaking and the count is looking to get into Hydra raking services so we are in the process of discussing what that might possibly look like a shared service agreement to see if County would be interested in Hydra raking our ponds here in town so um we have a lot of stuff that we're working on um you know to to combat this issue more the committee right I think that's why the committee makes sense there's so much data right and just to digest it filter through it and make sense of it and then bring it back I love it I'm I'm in supporting this how will we hear from the committee or the environmental commission will we get reports from the environmental yes so it would go the my idea in my head is that the committee gets to work uh and makes recommendations to the environmental commission which can you know maybe put the fin finishing touches on it if you will and then come to us with a recommendation you know we've studied the pros and cons of the more expensive chemical uh and we like that or don't like that versus regular chemical or maybe no chemicals but then we have to have Pawn scum is tradeoffs right and so to to educate us on all the options um and what they recommend uh and then put that forward and I would imagine they would work closely with Nick and Rich and so on right guess um councilwoman has been attending via Zoom she's on her way here she has her hand up as well [Music] true hi guys um I'll be there shortly but um I just had a question also about wasn't there some talk about like the Air Raider and we're not using that right now because of the hydro raking um is pause and have we do we have a fountain at all or is that a piece of this to keep the water moving have we considered anything like that that's my question we have we have six airators one is broken because of the hydro raking but the other five are in operation um they're along the center line north south um and the one is broken on other hands to replace that you know we're waiting for the hydro hyd that makes sense okay and are they I mean they're working the way they're supposed to as far as I know yeah as far as I know when the consultant came out we met they are working with the exception of the one that's broken um and obviously um one of the things too I mean you know even in the preliminary talks um you know prior of Med County they they were pretty clear you know in order to make it successful you have three PR approach um which is Hydra raing air rating and also having some type of chemicals in there they said even if you take one of those prongs out you're still going to run into issues um like the alga what we're dealing with right now they say the only way you're going to successfully treat it is if you you approach it with PR approach like what I had described earlier my brain goes right to the pivot point which is the chemicals right so we've taken out 250 tons of material Hydra raking another phase is coming five of the six are raters are working but the chemicals haven't been put in since August the 19 so it seems like that's the missing link um or the thing that's changed is my is my sense and chemicals I just want to like PA chemicals doesn't Translate to pouring poison into the right like you know we the whole point of using the word chemicals just so nobody misconstrues right is to say hey we're going to use something don't know what it is yet to treat the algae correct we used uh MD tablets I think they're called correct yes um and they they change the oxygen levels okay I just want to qualify and clarify is gonna put like shock in there like a pool right and like you know yeah no I mean it's it's a I assume that it's all approved by the njd correct yes I would just add but fin that you we do have a lot of committees this government has formed a lot of committees we have eight standing committees um and we have another 12 committees on top of that and um you know each of us is on a lot of these committees so I this sounds like potentially a model for how that can be replicated say for example for TW C or for the Third Street Trail or for me Shipp is is slightly different but in need of some sort of special information perhaps hand it off to somebody else but if this works um it could be replicated for other areas my um my only and and it has to be said it is said in government you want to look like you're doing something and I'm not suggesting that's what anybody here is doing form a committee um The Magic In what has been discussed here to my mind is that we're willing to provide Professional Resources access to Professional Resources because any guidance this body guess whether it's from a committee or a commission or a board it has to be uh we did in professional guidance which clearly we just got here already so I think we've made Leaps and Bounds but um we've got a lot of committees just want to make sure that it's something that honestly going to be workable and actually help us conquer something I don't want to waste anybody's time I don't think anybody up here does either so so mayor the EC chair is in the back I don't know Sean do you want to say anything or do you have any I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't we too beginning coming just come up to the center just so they can hear you on the owl really putting you on the spot everyone that's spoken so far everyone that's spoken so far takes a donor after they're done correct that's the rule you come up and speak you take a Munch did you hear did you hear the beginning part about we'd have a subcommittee that would have people from EC involved and maybe some others and then report up through the EC and EC would make a recommendation to us that's yeah and so and thank you for including us in the conversation it's it's a good dialogue I think it's obvious that it's a a concern that affects a lot of us and as it's been said it's not just the neighbors obviously they AB but to the B and that's an impactful area but yes we all we all are interested in P's Health um I would just say you know we have a body we have the environmental Council whose responsibility is looking at environmental topics so I I would like um to to to be mindful of of creating more and more and more when we actually have a body that's that's responsible for that that specific topic and I know I'm new to the chairmanship and and U you know working with the members this weekend you there is definitely some some common ground and some some galvanization around revisiting as Chris you you I thought you summarized it really well than you three things that have been done you know it's like when you maintain your lawn and you don't maintain your lawn for two years like your lawn doesn't look good or you don't maintain your garden it grows weeds like like this is just something that needs to be maintained and for different reasons that schedule hasn't been following um you know whereas a committee has been really good uh Russian Leaf as an example getting a lot of people to come together talk about how it affects their part of the neighborhood or where they live is great I feel like this isn't like a different type of of in a life cycle it's in a different spot right we all agree we're all stacking hands there's like one thing we can all agree on is we don't want it to go we want to fix it um having a lot of people share how much they love it is great but I think we really need to be more focused and get a group together of experts that can say if we follow this treatment plan we will get back on track or we have we've so far swayed off that that treatment track we actually have to go look at like options b c d whatever I'm not an expert I don't pretend to be a pond expert I've never dug a pond I've never managed a pond so I'm not saying I am but I am saying that I thought our group of of Volunteers in the environmental commission are are very well prepared to manage that process if you need to and I'll I'll I'll say what I said again I'll get with you offline obviously the next few days get with the commission whoever wants to serve on this uh subcommittee let me know and we'll move that process forward because I do want everyone involved I just don't want those monthly meetings to stop that process this is this is obviously a very important topic right now it's timely and uh you know we need positive intervention as soon as possible and than your point about moving with speed I think is it was a topic at our e our last DC meeting and since then it's been uh I would say daily multiple times a day correspondence between us between Brian between others um there is no idea that we have to wait until our next meeting in order to like take action or we me it's a to me it's it's it's a it's an urgent matter um so if it's an urgent matter it's it's kind of less oh can we all get together in me on a a weekly basis no it's like I need to send up an email we need to get Chris involved we need to get the administration involved because they're the ones that have been responsible and and the most in the know as far as what's been going going on um we can certainly be that that that help as far as extra arms and legs to then look at all right well let's bring another ideas let's start to Galvanize what are some of those other options that should be explored thank you wanted to speak coun just very quickly it just sounds's just very quickly it sounds like there's a lot of uh can you hear me yes um you know there's a lot of great ideas here and it's certainly a sense of urgency I completely agree you know with Dre that we should involve the residents but to me this sounds like a very basic SWAT analysis right like strengths opportunities weaknesses you know threats and we start to prioritize those and what we need to deal with first you know obviously I know one opportunity that's glaringly obvious is how we you know how we treat the chemical situation but to me that's kind of where you start and then prioritize you know from there obviously working in conjuntion or working with the EC but just wanted to mention that because there's a lot of great ideas here but we need to figure out how to centralize them all and then prioritize good pivoting to the discussion of too many committees interesting you said that um the bird sanctuary committee was next I'll just talk to that a little bit um Bon Club does you know a great job with everything they do um what I do notice though is like um you know Carolyn going to give you a uh plug here the Natural Area committee seems to have you know a plan and a process and organize volunteer days and um really really uh a direction when it comes to the Natural Area as a whole and I don't I could be wrong I don't get the sense that we have that in the Harding per Sanctuary um you know I think it would be nice to do that I guess in my plan um we would add a committee that would kind of take charge of that it could be filled up with very similar members to the Natural Area committee um I would actually only put the committee together for 18 months to two years and then in my perfect world I don't know if we could do this I would actually roll the Third Street Trail and the Harding bird sanctuary into the Natural Area committee into one shant committee that handles all three threats I think they're very similar in nature be wrong again without the expertise but um I think that that group does such a great job that if they were overseeing all three um I think I think we'd see a collective benefit [Music] um to to the Bur so that that's what I would was thinking I I didn't want to obviously dump per se the bird the bird sanctuary on you until there was a plan and maybe it was a little bit further along because I think you you have a lot in the Natural Area as it is um recently uh we had a resident that had a nice idea for the bird sanctuary to uh engage I would see in the future something like that being brought to the bird committee and then event two years from now being brought to the larger natural areas committee so that was that was my thinking there I'm looking for feedback from the Council on that idea well I am this is this is really great having sort of a structural conversation mechanics of government how to make it work better and I appreciate you putting it on the agenda to first to talk about it I I I kind of see systematically systemically within our committee structure we you know unlike the commission that has a secretary um a liazon you're tied in directly to government and access to professionals now which is huge thing because that the environmental commission has been missing sort of a technical resource meaning um somebody with um knowledge like you're talking about that on the ground knowledge of whatever whether we're dealing with invasives or um water quality issues but if we're going to provide those professional supports to the environmental commission they can start to actually tackle some things the Natural Area committee does not have any of the infrastructure they have um some funding through the appeal in fact that particular group I think enjoys the highest rate of contribution from Fair almost so um if we want to provide similar supports and expand the portfolio of responsibilities that that' be a conversation worth having I think um just consolidating it and then not providing the Technical Resources and professional guidance um or the sort of administrative infrastructure that's so key to the functioning of any kind group is a difficult um thing to consider so Natural Area does have a DPW repres reprentative that comes and we did get them budget funding uh 7,000 8,000 something along those lines um does Dave Carl come to your meetings is that you yes Dave car sometimes it's not maybe that could be more regular I don't know about the $700,000 the the money for invasives yeah so we did we did send some resour budg that was in the budget I do remember some we this came up before and Carolyn and I know there were some concerns and I I think one of them maybe was how you guys are structured or how it was formed there might be some limitations on what you can is that true it has to do with the actual Natural Area um yeah I mean we certainly would be open to an idea like this there would be details to work out and there might be people we're not in favor of it for one reason or another and we do have a funding source that's kind of tied to the current mission that we would need to manage um I said I think there' be some people in favor of it some with some concerns um I have one question which this might be a total rumor but I thought at one point I heard that the Harding bird sanctuary had something unique in its deed that kind of dictated I I couldn't answer that it's something we'd probably have to get back to him yeah yeah I I wasn't aware of that meaning meaning it's restrictive as far as like what can be done with it taking a note y follow up on that I'll just give an example I know the Red Bank library right it's on the river every now and then people say why don't we sell it with the library in the Middle Town but the people that donated it said that if that ever gets sold the money goes to Prince University so there's like things in the de that cause you to have to Sure manage it a certain way so I'm not saying there's anything like that but I heard there was something in the good feedback we'll we'll we'll find out about it and I want to clarify that part of the conversation the consolidation I I see later later on i' said 18 to 24 months I think the idea is right now and I think possibly also we got to find out like Carolyn just said before we form this this uh potential subcommittee the idea is right now do we want some additional focus in that area so you know about the Garden Club role okay just yeah so so I'm aware of the garden club's role i' actually you know most of them I think left I would like to know more about what what is done in there by the Garden Club because it might be a different um approach than the Natural Area takes in their area so I I'll just I'm not answering your question because I think you're right it would be good to know um I'm not looking to replace what the Garden Club does I'm I'm looking to build on top of it so um I would like to say the Harding bird sanctuary and we should know what the deed restrictions are if there are any obviously maybe it has to be a bird sanctuary obviously right now it's birdless and there are reasons for that some of us understand a little bit about it but um no matter what structure or What entity uh we we kind of need a professional plan like right now the natural era took it upon themselves to um engage the county park services and just really leveraged every potential relationship they could to get guidance in the National Island which is part of why they are so successful um and the bird sanctuary is different from the Natural Area and would obviously if it had to become a bird centu again the road mapap for getting there would look different than what the park systems guidance is for the Natural Area which is a different kind of um wooded open space so it again just going back to that we we need the professional guidance so that we had a plan no matter what layers of support and focus we want to put on it I would just go back to we would need to adopt a plan that would be implemented over time Chris for for this committee and even the committee before right if there's a professional service needed right that committee would reach out they would get the Professional Services in order to answer whatever question may be at hand yes that's correct okay the committee would reach out to us what's the process professional well they don't have access to well not to to the B right we have to obviously we would have to coordinate professionals have be contact with them but how do I mean in terms of budget how does that well that's a lot of and and what would say is if if there's cost Associated just like we have in every other situation they would have to come to the council to get approval for that well I guess so knowing that could you ask if there if we're down for additional focus in that area absolutely but I don't I would like to know like what steps we're taking before the 18 to 24 months that we're going to consolidate the thing so if we know that ultimately that is a plan we know there's going to be money that's associated with that like that we need to have funding for that so those are kind of things like need to talk about now because it's going to come we know that's where it's going to end up so knowing that how do we plan for that now and all those topics like the bird sanctuary the sankers all that stuff and I think that's more the conversation that probably needs to be happening a little bit more now ask she can answer okay what's the what I guess I don't so talking about additional funding or committees or subcommittees or such as that that would have to be a moving forward conversation which would become part of the budget conversation that would start you know late August early fall y for 2025 so not to make any mistake there really is no funding for this year but I I think that timing works because if you get the committee together get the idea start getting ideas then we can start seeing okay this is the kind of funding we need whereas it we wait and the committee's not form till November December you're behind the eight wall and getting money into the bu it could be the same conversation next year we don't have money in the budget and then it's kicked to the so to the conversation to have now is get the Comm together get them to say what they would like and then the council can decide okay we like you know they come up with three ideas we like idea one it's cost approximately x amount of dollars we either add it into the budget or we don't well so we we wanted so I'm I'm seeing a lot of this as like Improvement I imagine the recommendations would be sort of restoration and more Capital intensive and it would be I Vision it as a capital situation not an operating budget the improvements not the support but the the if they say we need to Pi down 600 trees or plant 600 trees or you know whatever so that's something would need to look into to see whether it actually fits into a capital expense yes I'm just going to throw a that is a potential everyone just while we're on this because an alternate route right we have called 100 plus acres of Natural Resources water bodies Rivers wooded areas different types they all need a type of stewardship maintenance and attention and um a lot of the grant committee review work has led us to identify um sources of funding that certainly require a match so it doesn't mean we don't pay anything but if we have a conservation or stewardship management plan we have the basis for which we can submit an application for a grant without the plan you know you could could committee that can't and they don't have a funding request because they don't have anything to even create an estimate but if we have the plan we can create estimates and generate you know costs that we might have to come up with whether it's operating budget or bonds but also apply for Brands so just want to so chime in right I I like everything I'm hearing personally and I want to discern a couple different things right there's a discernment between work to get these to a state of maintainability right from you know the type of use we want at these so that's something we need to keep in mind and I don't think there's any reason why we can't do both in parallel right to do that type of planning will take time but these need help now right and getting the Committees together and and and figuring out what that looks like and having conversations and I would say even setting the expectation of communication from the GB level with what we expect communication to be and funnel up and how often and how frequently is only going to position us to be that better prepared for 2025 because we're going to start putting the budget together in three months yeah four months maybe oh it's July already Yes okay two months so where it takes me back to is that then let's not wait 18 to 24 months like that seems but we're not I'm just talking about consolidating I I don't I don't want to give I thought you were like I don't want to give group a project I want to give them something that's further along and and it's just at that point maybe management moving forward rather than give them a new project where they have to to start from scratch on everything and I would imagine that members from the Natural Area committee will want to volunteer for the new Harding bird sanctuary committee as well yeah if so if they want to volunteer that's great but I also don't want to make it you know here's some additional homework for you so this I I I go back to what Sean and Brian were saying one the word consolidation I kind of like because again we're fairly we do have a lot of a lot of committees it'd be nice to um function in a at least for the governing body they it' be great if these things were all kind of together we do have an environmental commission it does have some Authority it's formed by ordinance it has all the proper linkages to keep it connected with the government and I'm wondering if that isn't appropriate rather than you know consolidating everything under a committee thinking about how that committee can be in connection with the environmental commission it is all under similar cvw rather than thinking about the environmental commission scope excluding Natural Area Third Street Trail and Harding that those are the three entities that I heard you talked about they're really part of the environmental commission's per it's not as though that would already come up anyway as a normal course in business um and it would provide some of the linkages critical linkages that they've been asking you know what I may be wrong but I think where you're going with this mayor is that the environmental commission meets once a week you envision I mean once month you envision this committee as meeting more often and perhaps the environmental commission as a as an entity is not prepared to meet more than once a month so if you create a smaller group of environmental commission members and and other professionals you might be able to meet on a much more f oh on on mcarter pond that's exactly what I was thinking on Harding third sanctuary my thought is the Environmental commission um supervises environmental impactful um uh categories all over the world right they have they have our Rivers they have our you know our woodsy areas our natural areas they have our storm water management uh you know anything that the environmental commission has underneath their purview you but it's hard to say hey environmental commission we need you to be the stewards of the Harding bird sanctuary moving forward that's a lot it's a lot for for a body to just do that so if we can have a very specific subset of people where that is their only focus I think that's to the benefit of the sanctuary the not to the detriment of anything else if we dump the sanctuary on the environmental commission and say you have to take care of this and you have to discuss this that could be to the detriment of other things that um are under their cvw and and mayor time and resources I'll just add to that right because if you you know when I think of thiry Trail Natural Area a lot of these different they all started as kind of grassroot movements right and they've blossomed into what they are today I think this is a similar idea with the bird sanctuary right to initiated Grassroots right specifically focused on this area but what I'm hearing is is at the same time we have to talk about you know what that consolidation looks like and if that's on an 18 to 2ear timeline great start from there and work backwards and figure out what that looks like but I'm I love the idea just to bring back to this I love the idea of having a Grassroots movement people specifically focus in the bird sanctuary it's in a state of disrepair right action needs to happen now and if we have a small group that can provide that recommendations of what to do and start now then maybe in 2025 for the budget that's started in two months um we we we we can put stuff and start chopping way it's the proper order well you're going to get a bunch of volunteers together who are not going to have any access to Technical Resources true that's that's not true so so so this subcommittee is going to be able to we just said they're GNA they're going to get together and if they want to mute the professional re it to Chris and then if there's a cost Associated that it will come back to the goverment body same thing we did with brush and Lea right we needed professional help on brush and Li right so we went and we worked with the ba the ba then got the Professional Resources to bring in make sure that there was a budget so that that that that that lever right will exist and does exist yeah it it does I just Echo what Nancy said too you it's better to do it soon than later inste we can forecast the needs of what that subcommittee might need when we're doing with our budgeting process yeah and one other thing I would like to point out is if there's aove that's needed or they need additional information many entities many vendors businesses will give you those quotes and that information at no cost yes I'm aware of that it's not always necessary that we have to pay a professional to get that information and that's the sort of thing that we can determine what we need and then but the weeds report is an example of what Nancy is talking about um it provides excellent guidance and it's a good starting place um why don't we just come back to this knowing that we may have come up with a way to provide the focus attention and resources minus the budget until we get into it can somebody send the deed out what do you mean to come back to this I are we meaning if you want to do it it sounds like everybody's in agreement but like let's not lose track let's come check in in six months or hear from our committees boards and commissions right now on an ongoing basis well I guess I'm confused about what the next step is though you know like we're saying let's come back to it but what happens in the middle so so next step for me would be to set up the subit That's the next step is to identify it potentially they choose a chair um you know uh and and we we usually have an initial onboarding meeting uh our administrator would be there I would assume that uh head of our DPW would be there um you know and put all Lea on the council would be there um and then obviously the members that have been set on the subcommittee would be there and I think we'd have an initial discussion and sort of set the parameters and the mission and you know from that point it's it's hard to say what step two would be but I think that's what that initial meia kind of sets well there'll be a resolution on the agenda they'll set forth the purpose of the committee right yes so we would set up we would set up a committee through resolution correct on both of these at the next meeting at the next meeting if if we're ready with the names which I hope we are we do have more time between know the next meeting right we one meeting in August thanks just to answer Andrew's question before I'll uh I'll work with Allison and um Andel B attorney and get a copy of send it out to first and I spent some time talking about the complete list of committees that exist at we know it and and um trying to get on the same page and make sure you have that too and Y I don't know may how you want to I just want to make sure you don't lose track of a subcommittee and a committee just I don't want to see get suffocated and lost and would disappear you know these are important topics which is why I know you're putting it on the agenda I don't know what the reporting is going to look like but maybe we can talk about that separately yeah develop that's that's something that that uh would be discussed with the um committee Lea on as well and um I'm sure it would be a discussion that first meeting committee Le on Harding bird is Betsy correct Betsy patch bur council president and then FL parter fond will be Brian because of the environmental commission um actually what we discussed was councilman Co um but I'm leaving a second spot open uh for Brian I would love to be considered just the whole environmentalist thing I would love to be part of this and being that I don't have any actual committees or like under my belt would be great I mean I have committees but nothing that like actually reports back for let's let's talk offline about that there there might be some quum issues there but we can have that discussion okay how would be a quum if it was Brian me well Kristen we were saving the spot for Bri the mayor's on makes a issue I get it but like okay happy too uh next up we have a workshop session storm water management ordinance land use yeah um so last year um we did some work um and identified in the storm water management order specific to storm water runoff from an addition um there was a a little bit of a loophole um so the way the ordinance reads as of today any new build the square footage and don't call me on the the technical language but the the square footage of the storm mot to run off on the roof can't be discharged into the street but for an addiction it can and so last year um governing body multiple boards were engaged to include environmental was like November 17th I can't remember the exactly um to look to close that loophole um so that additions if you added additional roof that that storm water had to be discharg to the same standard as if it was a new build I.E not into the street um so the ordinance language was brought up PN in and then ultimately was tabled um and given that we're now coming into the second part of this year wanted to to resurrect it again send it out to everybody it's it's a paragraph um legal last year looked at it so we'll have to go through legal review again I'm sure we'll have to go to environmental again go landy's board again um but it is a loophole um and given how storm water has been a priority this is another one of those levers that we want to make sure it didn't get lost want to get her all done incorporated into yeah Fair yeah good point U are we gonna do that oh no okay so this is you're saying in anticipation of our next wave of amendments this is something we want to start to look at now no separate from that so originally it was supposed to be part of the First Amendment and somehow it got dropped so this is only one paragraph changing six words oh so instead of waiting on the state guidance to come in and adopting it to whatever the state says and then refining a little bit further right because the last ordinance was getting it completely in line this takes it that one step extra further and and breaks out a very small chunk of it so that we close the loophole and we can take another action towards storm water so that will be circulated next week uh defer to I defer to use because I did look up the ordinance that prohibits piping your storm water into the street it's very specific there there is a little loophole though to your point yeah so that you should have the language that the lawyers chopped off on last year we'll have to Circle back with environmental there's a land use angle here um and then obviously it's land use loss I think that's the whole 60-day and right it's gonna take a while but want to resurrect it all right sorry clarify is it going to the whole it should go to the whole govern yes corre okay next up uh public comment on agenda items only please state your name and address for the record please observe a time a three minute time limit thank you hello Muka 14 L hi Elise Casey 263 Road um uh we have created a little Advocate Group called friends of mcarter bond recently um we here and we really appreciate you guys taking the time the set up the council and again we love the thought of what you guys are going to do we just want to voice a couple concerns as you're putting counil together and things for you guys to consider um one of the ones the first thing is hydro rating I know we've done it twice in the past um two different the one and yeah right but we only tell one I can't comment what one time but it does seem after the first time that it got worse kind of seemed like it pushed kind of spread everything around move the spaghetti around the wall yeah right and so now we kind of have a path from our house over to the other side which is nice but um right the other the other part we were thinking about in terms of the buls this used to be kind of from where we live all the way across there's a deterioration of B head and I didn't know whose responsibility that is right is it are we allowed to repair those is it the towns um on my side survey it basically goes to my fence line but not the V so I don't know if I'm allowed to fix it those kind of things great question I think those are questions we need to get answers for you I do think that in the past I've seen residents doing their own bulkheads I'll also say that one of the issues you know I'm I'm assuming that eventually this conversation will move towards should we dredge the pond one of the conversations that I had had is that was a concern because certain bulkheads that residents put in are to a certain depth and then you're dredging much further down than that is the bulkhead then going to collapse is it going to cause an issue based on that so we got we got to get an answer for you on that but ex I think that's why we want to come up and just kind of throw that out there that while if we're not included on the committee how do we kind of get back and forth so we understand what's going on and we can kind of relase our s about certain things and just provide for you that and and and and that might be one of the beauties of a subcommittee is maybe there's representation on that subcommittee from someone that's reporting back into your uh friends of M that' be great and and if you reach out to me your email address I'll get that answer by hhe okay just give me your property address and everything okay yeah this is um we had our first meeting last night which is a wonderful get together with just neighbors that surround the pond and we are here to help you guys um and work together um now a big education piece to it where we could be doing better as far as what we're using for fertilizer and sides and um educating just the surrounding property so we're here to help yeah I yeah I think you can have buile that information as well in terms of doing a survey for everybody you what we use to do our Lawns how do we treat them all those different kind of things to help expedite the so process I I just want to also make clear um I know we keep talking about surrounding properties I'm pretty sure some of those stor water drains on adjacent streets also flow into the pond they so it's it's more than just the homes that are running the property where the pesticides are having the effect so the education program needs to be further out than just course 45 Acres of drainage area drains into 45 45 AC yeah the main two drains are 14 and foret then across the two big times right on either end so again whatever information whatever help that we can provide you'd love to do that want to be involved in anybody have we would love some uh someone from the group to be considered for the committee possible yes let's have that conversation okay greates apprciate thank you thank you very much good evening jennifer5 I want to thank you all for your service and your countless hours that I know you put in uh to keep all these projects coming along and keeping in town finding as well as we do and thank you councilman Co and mayor he for responding recently to me on an inquiry about me they having Lo project the phase two of the project which is the sidewalk that will go from um from marter Hond all the way to the end um to Buttonwood um we're all for bike safety I Clos the schools school safety and bike safety I town an excellent job and what a track record um but we feel our area of fa hav Road uh is so quiet I think we've had one trigger treater in three years it's a very quiet we're sad about that but there really is no I mean I know I don't know if Studies have been done of pedestrians and and um bikers but we don't have you know we're the end of the road and we don't really have anyone down there um so for those 15 residents that are going to um give property and have maintenance of sidewalks uh they would love to do it if it was necessary and they feel that it's not necessary um I've spoken with um almost all of them over the weekend um and they just feel that the uh two bike lanes that are proposed um a sidewalk and the dirt path it seems excessive um to get to the to the other sidewalk or get up to school um and we know that we like to keep the kids safe and that they're usually being funneled down to that crossing guard so hard to get crossing guards for other you know Des Crossways that we they like to meet their friends and they like to go down Buttonwood and in the end they're really not on Fair Haven Road um I had twin boys my daughter at a double stroller I never had a hardship getting just across to the dirt to the dirt path which is under the planton cherry trees um we think that's the safest way to go um and again we did speak with um over 10 residents that don't want the sidewalks they did sign a petition and I wanted to submit to you of their concerns and there were concerns that they felt that they wanted just a little bit more input and could someone meet with them they know it's on for approval tonight to be awarded but is that still going to be discussed of any additional input for those resents input as far as the specific design why there is a Salk may not be needed and the majority of do not want it right so um just to shed a little bit of light on the sidewalk so I'm going to first talk our Master PL plan which is really gives us a guide towards how to manage the bur arean so it reads the safety of pedestrians and those on bicycles was in the public Consciousness in the 2005 master plan reexamination report this is 2016 master plan um the integration of safe routes between neighborhoods Recreation areas and the business district was was identified as a priority these issues were name Val respondents typically travel to local destinations by car overwhelmingly so at nearly 90% however of those respondents with children in the local school district over 50% stated their children get to school via bicycle the remaining were roughly spit SP spit were roughly split between walking and being dropped off nearly 23s also stated they would walk or bike to local destinations more often if pedestrian and bicycle facilities were improved for safety and convenience then additionally in the Fair Haven act active Transportation plan which is from 2017 um the sidewalk Network the streets including this targeted inventory provide longer continuous corridors across the burrow create an interconnected Network Andor provide direct access to Major destinations these these conditions uh can discourage walking contribute to unsafe Crossing conditions reduce driver awareness an expectation of pedestrian activity Andor create impediments to Mobility for some residents major roadways in Fair Haven that lack sidewalks include portions of Third Street portions of Fair Haven Road and then it continues to list a few other roads as well um in addition to that uh at the last council meeting maybe it was two Council meetings ago um not that that's what drove this entire project uh but we heard from residents um you know there's been two or three accents on faan Road in the last month and a half one gentleman almost lost his life um you know the the the residents in general um the feedback that I've gotten I think I think I don't speak for everyone but I think most of the representatives up here is that um the burrow as a whole is looking for more more walkability um and safer routes to school for their children so when we look at like your part of the street we are also taking into consideration obviously the bottom of bottomwood as well as Beachwood and any young children that might be there um and them having safer access to school and just you know it's anecdotal because it's just me I do run on that street um I can give you an example that there's one car always parked always on faen road um and when I'm running since there's no sidewalk there I have to run around it into the street which sometimes I stop and I take a look um I guess my concern is is is the is the child doing the same thing to actively stop take a look what's coming um and I I totally appreciate the passion of the neighborhood I guess where I end up being on this and the reason why I would probably support it which I think I've told you um is is God forbid something ever happens to a kid um I'm I'm the one that ultimately answers to it so if I can um make that road as safe as possible uh for pedestrians and cyclist that's that's really the only reason um why I would support it by think it's a pretty good reason we appreciate the point because have the one topic that is 100% fle that's everyone agrees 100% safety and the bike safety for the kids we all agree on but I would think you would need to look at it individually and and the necessity of it um one point is you guys are making the dirt trail behind the cherry trees so for any Walker um on F Ro or Buttonwood you could cross the street and walk behind the cherry trees and then connect up with the sidewalk on that side of the street so you have full access to get to uh to town from that area and additionally if um like what we always did the going back toward Buttonwood is the safest way to to walk in that direction so if you took and then you're installing a bik lane and a shoulder which we don't have when it comes to safety of Walkers I think you have alternate side of the street you have access down button with and you have the the shoulder that's going to be installed the bike L which I think will take care of that you consider the few numers Walkers it just seems extremely unnecessary and especially wasteful and when none of the majority of the resents there do not want it so so we we did discuss um the crossing of the road the issue is in order to get to sickle school for a young child now they're crossing the main road twice um and let we don't have any plans right now for a crossing guard in that spot obviously that's another expense they have to cross went down button which to go to SES I me that's a safe I mean I would I mean if I live anywhere in the area I would not really want my child walking or biking on P Road as their main uh travel points I mean traveling down Buttonwood in the back roads is 100 times safer than going down fa road so I think the children's need stage from using that as a route which is probably why not many but scenar where a child would walk into CLE where we you're located at I know we talking about I know um but that the bike Lanes we actually had an accident up further up where um I don't want to name names but a person pulled out of their driveway and struck a child who broke their leg and that's these people these 20 15 people are saying oh my goodness now you're putting a body plane up against the my exit my erress you're encouraging more drivers you're encouraging more bikers and that's beest so also create another problem like we trying to solve one problem you can create another one because um and the same with our daugh once fight that was her she almost got hit from the car back and out of the drive so that creates other dangers if you you try toot children to go down a sidewalk that has a lot of driveway traffic um you have another scenario that could cause issues so we like the bike Lanes like on Ridge or on River I think the bikers that do a straightway or they're exercising or the cyclist or the bik cyclist people that go fast but we don't really see it there that it's going to be useful and that's all we wanted to add so that road is a major connector between two County Roads right River one and we know we have bike path County mapped bike trails on both of those County Roads faen road is a primary connector for that but big picture of we zoom out um and I don't know exactly where your house is but big picture the intention of everything from the ATP um as informed by the master plan is as our mayor said is intended to calm traffic on fa Haven Road and that's done by narrow cart which achieved with the shows and the bike lanes and the shoulders and the sidewalks and Street trees and all of these things collectively help to calm traffic it exactly to address the concerns now I understand what you're saying about sidewalks at sidewalks help achieve that the curb the sidewalk definitely it's this is known I'm not making this up this is guidance it's science traffic standards and so on um all of those things help collectively especially when we start to see the regular rhythm of pedestrian crosswalks vertical running running cross as you're driving right now you kind of have an open straight away um but when all of these new improvements go in it's going to overall improve and calm traffic and make the roadway feel safer it's going to alert drivers to the presence or potential presence of pedestrians bicycle whether they're even there or not are you on um are you between Hill Crest and Buttonwood I am I am ACR the like up from Buton wood right so the idea of um the crosswalk and sidewalk network is to complete it so that the trail um in the Quan on cherry trees is actually part of the sidewalk and pedestrian network but if we can't get sidewalk to curb to to pedestrian crosswalk to that trail guess what we don't have a complete Cog now so it's all part of a whole even though I totally appreciate what people using it seems so unnecessary and crossing the street um not an issue I mean any of people in our area I mean you could cross the street to go to the trail behind the Chevy trees I mean the traffic is not that need we've had a lot of actually I don't know about everybody else but um I had a lot of people ask about crosswalks to get to the Natural sidewalk sidewalks itself just seem completely unnecessary well we can't introduce a crosswalk without sidewalk why can't you do a crosswalk I mean it's the crosswalk I believe it goes to Buttonwood he not on the way sidewalk on the right but Farah is a primary connector where spot goes more of a tertiary it's a lower level street with low traic volumes we also feel that it's also very residential where we get like hands and we have a four3 eth grade where everyone's riding their bike and we have a church which is a big parish and there's no bike no bikes I look at Great Road To The River where everyone's going fish and crab the bip plane just seems a lot a street that is very quiet most people turn off before they get each just their whole so I we don't feel that um that's why I think some of the residents find a little bit more input because they didn't feel it it really is that busy and we want everyone to be safe of course um but we didn't think that the 15 homes with sidewalks had that weight of an impact but I do see the big picture never found out let me throw in there to outside of the safety just I don't know if this helps but um this is from uh ARP uh interest in sidewalks is so Keen that they've become a factor in home prices for example in the scenario where two houses are nearly identical the one with a 5 foot wide sidewalk and two Street trees not only sells for $4,000 to $34,000 more but it also sells in less money I'm just pointing out that you know sidewalks aren't a detriment as far as the value of your home they actually enhance the value of your home I don't know if that is coming into any concerns from any of the residents littleit about natural area in the bird sanctuary this themes ju Theos that type of overdevelopment that look Aesthetics is my last thing when I wor about safety but that really isn't the Lo of fa road with the pond with the Natural Area it's quite the opposite to us it looks a little bit like Urban Coastal like SE bra I'm going to Tom's like I'm just saying it doesn't I don't think it does actually help I think it makes it look like a busier Street in some people's minds um so I don't know if I would agree with that I some people do like the sidewalks um about the engineered edges whether it's curbs and sidewalks and street signs and speed limit signs it makes it more suburban and less Rural right exactly and I know that when this this in 2016 you mentioned when it was put up for a vote that that if I remember correctly it was split that it was there was not really a consensus is that am I accurate on that that it was a split vote that there were people that voted no and that the ex- mayor was the tiebreaker on this plan if I'm correct are we talking the active Transportation plan or the the plan you were referring to so I thought there might I couldn't I couldn't answer to but but it just seems that I mean I know you guys are acting off that plan from six seven years ago and you're trying to do the best of the presidents but I think there needs some um logical intervention at times to balance that plan is it really necessary need to the money or resents want and I don't think that's true for sure well when it when it comes to balancing the money it's part of if I'm wrong I don't know if Rich's here to correct Me Maybe Nancy can it's part of phase two of a grant award that we got so there's no cost to the burrow fa all right I mean it still seems wasteful to do a project that no one want so I I I respectfully I I hear you that you don't want I hear that there's other residents that don't want it but I I would also um guess that if I asked the other you know uh 6,000 residents in Fair Haven whether they could get a sidewalk there at no cost and make use of it and certain children uh would have a safer access to schools they would probably be in favor and that's how we tend to make the decisions that we do up here is is this decision for the best of the entire town it's not for the 15 getting we don't really make a decision based on 15 we make the best decision um for the entire bur and I think I said this to you online so I'll say to everyone like would I want a sidewalk in front of my house I'll be honest I I probably wouldn't I probably wouldn't but I I also would say I would love a curb in front of my house and I can't have one so there's there's give and take to different areas of town um based on circumstance uh you know we got a lot of this we I wasn't here but I remember from following along the other side of faran road got a lot of the same feedback um closer to mcarter park when they put the sidewalk in on that side it was UN necessary no one really uses it anyway why are we doing it and and all the feedback that I've gotten um from the community is that that was a home run so um you know that you guys have been I'll be honest I get a lot of Resident interaction and the hos have been as first class as I can possibly even describe and that's why it's even hard to be up here and have a different position than you so thank you thank you thank you right much so that's pretty much a done deal or is there going to be well no it's everyone's I mean it's up to each individual member vote if anyone else wants to reply in any way you're welcome to just clarify that the benefit um so you's saying like you want to walk I mean walking from Buttonwood to across the street to go to the be cherry trees the connected um how is that any what what is wrong with that compared to having my my concern is a uh you know a 5-year-old that lives on Beachwood that wants to go to sickles in the morning and now they have to cross to the other side of faan road go all the way down to cross back go down or their other option is to go up up Buton wood right go up up on wood I think that's why wanted to talk a little bit because we know that a 5-year-old wouldn't go on but the parents are crossing you know the parents would um I hope you'll consider it I ask feed what what I would say is it sounds like there's more residents that want to discuss I'm assuming this issue so why don't we discuss why don't we allow them to discuss and Brian if you want to Circle back after I'm sorry what was your name I'm sorry my name is Mitch Cox I live at 365 this is my wife Sarah W we actually you sure over the weekend uh so we are not as prepared as the HR because we kind of were arised of this a couple of days ago we didn't realize I mean we had heard that this was this was in the Rumblings but we you know we didn't know that it was actually imminent which it appears to be so um uh we just like to give you the benefit such as it is of our experience living at this address I think we mentioned in the email we have we raised two daughters from infancy um we had you know used to move them to the town center and the dock at the at the end of fair load when they were strollers before schools uh they went of for the sickles and no wood and uh you know was never an issue I believe I believe when they went to C they um did what Mr just mentioned and they went by way of and sort of run when they open up right by so I guess we're just kind of um we're we're perplexed because we weren't notified of this now we have to respond to this within a few days and there's a consent agenda at the end of this meeting I can't understand why this wasn't made known to people that it affects the most the other thing is I'm concerned about the vegetation that are along the road there are several trees our property does not have trees we lost them during standing but there are other people who have vegetation trees even a statue along there and they'll have to pull all those down and I really am not in favor of doing any vegetation down um lastly we I just for context we've lived here for 30 years and we're well aware of the traffic on Fair Haven Road s Road River Road practically any Road in Fair Haven yeah one one point I would like to make is that um you know I understand the argument is that the M presence of the sidewalks and crosswalk will tend to I think I think the argument was will tend to decrease the traffic on Fair hidden Road isn't that sow calm calm okay uh except the problem with that is it doesn't seem to be worn out by the other streets in be me h Road generally is considered to be busy fairhead Road and it's it has sidewalks and has had sidewalks and certainly River Road is the busiest of all and it has sidewalks of the whole length so um if anything I would think that the kind of uh um Country Side aspect of Fair Haven Road has actually cut down on the traffic so I that particular argument I mean I I listen to all the arguments uh and uh some of them were reasonable but that particular argument I really don't think at least in the context of fairhead the town of fairhead I don't I don't think it's uh it doesn't change the volume to your point it doesn't change the volume of the traffic the number of cars that it has been Chown to C meaning a slow Vehicles the vehicle slow down slower 25 M hour doesn't work well it should that's the idea 25 miles per hour on that road that's right it it has to be 2 think I think the other thing that is not being taken into account also is that uh par Ro especially the the uh the southern section of it before it h River is actually wider kind of widens up and I think more than anything yeah I think more than anything uh that would be a factor yeah I mean I'm not I I don't think the cars drive faster on well they lower it certainly wasn't the case they're faster on than they were on River Road but then L the spe speed Li River Road but I think the widening of the road is probably the fact that more than anything has has becoming opposite of becoming and I add one thing we walked to the doc fairly frequently I walk up on the left hand side of the sidewalks that's the I guess it's the old part of Fair Haven the sidewalks are in terrible condition I nearly fall on them and have to walk into the streets and we're so concerned about safety why AR we fix we talking about it is on Fair Haven Road pass River Road when was the last time you did that um probably over the summer or last brick they were they were already fixed the brick yeah so we fixed all those as part of our micro projects those are already done okay I I actually I take almost daily walk to the to the to the dock there um and the ones on the as I'm going towards the dock the one on the left side of the road I mean that it's hard to believe that that sidewalk has been repaired that isn't pretty been repaired to look down for about a stretch of about 100 yards you trep the the only part I believe that hasn't been prepared on that side of river road is the very end on the right side in front of the property we just acquired because we're unsure yet of exactly what we're doing with the property so it didn't make sense to spend money fix that not knowing where we're going we'll go walk in and we'll take pictures if you find that it's not absolutely I if if you want a walking partner let me know I'll join you and I guess I guess the other thing I would say is that I I don't entirely the argument I this was made by Brian Brian H there already is a pathway on on the on the on the beaden field side of the road you know the upper part of beaden Road and that is going to be developed into a walkway to like what would put down Stone I guess to make that more of you know more accessible I guess doesn't get rained out of money so that will be a Four Season walkway along that I don't understand why both sides of the roads need to be populated with uh with sidewalks if you have um you know um that that path along along the fairen field side of the road and and if if this if there's a concern that it's not going to be a you know it's not be smooth P or it's not the kind of thing that somebody WR a B on then it seems to me that that you know that's easily so I'll just pave it yeah well we can't we can't pave the other side because it's part of the Natural Area um but I I hear your concern I mean I you know I don't really have anything else to add to what I responded to br on but we appreciate your [Music] time Jeremy 297 Haven Road adult 301 Haven Road I live right on Hillside and Road and I have two kids right every time I have to get out go on the bike ride with them I have to either cross the street which people don't go you know or I have to make a left and drive ride the bicycle with his kids you know on the road to go to what I find it extremely dangerous not having youill I'm on Hill Cresent and I'm actually really pleased and really grateful that you guys are we're going to PVE the road but I think it's um it's necessary toally for safety and I'm the neighbor right next door to him and I have one young child we have two dogs we take weekly walks and same idea we have across the street and you know this town is pride so it's V ability it's plank ability and this is the one stretch of the town where it feel like we are disconnected from all that uh may you probably don't remember but when you were making your effort you're not going this m door possible and you knocked on our door we had a brief conversation you asked us of one thing You' like to see this town you know do we said we love a s right here so we were thrilled to hear about this you know there especially during the summer there are kids teenagers walking across their La at night that's fine the issue is there should be a sidewalk it is dangerous uh and you know one thing I'll agree with the first people that spoke yeah we also had one trick-or-treater and we think it's because we're disconnected from and we would like any more think it's only imposter that kind of Community thank you doesn't guarantee you trick Rec because I live on River Road and for some reason my block it's no Tri trick orre this year the two street that um my concern really is your M's M I'm sorry do I have that right or no mooka mooka Yesa yes I remember meeting you yes hang on one second guys I can't I just can't hear her if everybody could just be quite public please now my concern is the safety you know ter the road being on that corner you know we're very aware of it and one of the concern was the thing that was talked about was a possible bike lane and I think that would be very dangerous right now is a home getting out of our driveway you know we've got to look for traffic and worry about possibly heading a child I I wouldn't want to have to have that stress also um I've lived inav in that house for over 35 years and there the road is changed the speed limit is 25 and the average speed that's maintain is like 40 to 50 miles now now my feeling is some of the money could be better used trying to either enforce the speed limit put speed bumps or something toer Speeders and you know the um the the the corner of Ro and redroad is also very dangerous if we could have a traffic like there I think her money would be very well spent during that b and my only concern with and approached upon by the town twice and we put a garden where a tree had been because we wanted to make lemon lemonade out of lemons some and we're afraid that the sidewalks are encroach again those are our main concerns thank you for your time go ahead sorry I just wanted to comment on the fact that we're not opposed to anything that will um increase safy for community in any way but as was mentioned the roads who have the the B planes Bakers aren't always friendly um and have the s walks are the busier streets and unless something's done about the contractors at 8:00 in the morning doing 45 miles hour down faen Road it doesn't matter if you have sidewalks going that sidewalks it doesn't matter and frankly I'm out there I'm watering the garden and at that hour they are not paying attention and if they had to stop I I nearly saw a truck take out a bus the bus was legally stopped to pick up children light splashing he wasn't paying attention he stopped about that far from the book you know that's not an isolated the we have to do something about the traffic rather than increase it we have to somehow control it as part of the program we were not aware of the program and we chastised the council a little bit because a lot of work went into I realized that but there's residance that it affects we should have been informed we should have had a little input it would have helped you not created the evening that we're we're here to help here to work together a long main it so thank you for very time thank one one just one note on um what you mentioned I believe that we've asked the county to take a look at that intersection so I don't have any answers for you yet but um obviously that's a that's a County Road uh Ridge Road so um they're supposed to report back and hopefully hopefully there's a needs to start have to the other thank you I now one person is taking a donut so I had to ask question so great 26 Fair Haven Road um I just wanted to reinforce a couple quick things about the McCarter Pond subcommittee um just want to really thank Lise and Michael who you know work with a bunch of passionate residents who are living nearby who just wanted to get involved um so it's just really great getting us all like organized um just want to say like in your consideration for those committees for that one the third sanctuary um I think Council MRE you had mentioned the word like Grassroots um you're not going to find you know a less like passionate group of people who are going to try to do the work that needs to get done um than the people who have already been raising their hands so I just ask like please like really consider like the residents who have been like really like trying to to make a difference and people can learn you know the skill that they need to to make the appropriate recommendations to the EC and other committies so just I would just ask for that open consideration the other um I just had two logistical questions as follow-ups as well um would be great if we could get like maybe a follow up after the council meeting today about how we could apply to those subcommittees in town no matter where they live so I think that'll be informative for everybody and then um after they're formed for those residents who are not on the Committees how they can still get in touch with the subc committies and still be involved because that fion is not going to go right so and obviously the closer you live to any of those things you're gonna care a little bit so just couple HS I was laughing at your donut joke so I missed your name oh what's that oh Ray Geo Ray G gu yes thank you thanks you just take like stanza taking the road um one SP behind there was a the Dual uh Recycling and there was like paper and the bottles and things like that and I bought another can so I wouldn't have to do the swap out I only put one can out on the street and but I have two cans are you going to charge me $400 you own it wait you have a can that's not like the normal blue recycling everyone else one I cardboard right other paper newpaper actually may thiser and the other one is just bottles and yeah but why why are you separating them now because once upon a time we had a duel we had a uh dual system you could only put out no I understand that but once upon a time I shouldn't make jokes like that I took someone of the prom but I don't take the pr dinosaurs walk the earth you can only put out right one at a time so instead of like putting it in a ordinary can and then swapping it out I bought another blue can right okay now and it's the same as our cans yes I have two blue cans he's wondering if he only tipping every week but he didn't get the can from did he get the can from Fair yes yes oh he did get the they delivered it went over to the DPW right okay I got and they so if you if you return the can to us you wouldn't get charged of $400 is that your question no the question is what should I do your blue can everything goes in one you don't need to you don't need to separate I I know but for me it's better that I put all the cardboard in one and then put the bottles in the other then when I have enough cardboard and stuff I put it out there'll be a four $ P that's that's that's a decision for you to make but yes you would be charged $400 for second kit okay then how do I get my money back you your money back for what I bought that k i I'm not sure you would get your money back why not I bought it the time how how many years ago did you buy the can when they had the DU and do you know how much you spent on the can why don't we why don't we have Chris why don't we take a look into this and we'll we'll get back to you can return you can definitely return the can and not be charging $400 as far as getting the $55 back we we're going to have to look into what the agreement was when you purchase it we we we'll if you don't want give my money back I I have so I can sell that problem too so no don't don't destroy it um okay it's my right just point of clarification they'll only pick up our cans correct yes well it's it's the claw it's the uh so like if someone it's abandoned so someone just had a regular can out there they cans they can get that could be picked up and are we charging them just for they can only pick up our and and just and just the double click right so everybody knows why right can you can you just provide uh the feedback as to why that tipping fee is now there and the contract and what not has the information so well as we discussed at a previous meeting um the issue that we may be having is that if we are not successful in getting an exemption on our Waste Services the council may have to make the decision to go to bi-weekly recycle and our concern is that potentially some residents that may not need a second recycling can will just ask to have one because it's a convenience and if we have too many residents with double cans we could potentially be outside of our contract that we were quoted on which could have a detrimental Financial impact on the burrow so to get ahead of that we're putting a fee on the second can so that only the residents that absolutely have to have a second can make that request this is not um this is not a means for us to drive revenue or anything like that it's a means for us to adhere to the cont but you also have an enforcement problem because cans are usually picked up early in the morning and the guy who's picking him up is not going to know whose can is what what you really need to do is get a little decal stick it on there so that it will say FA hav 22 24 something uh garbage and the other one recyclable so two detals basically if that's the case and then would solve your problem because if if the if the uh property changes owner then you have to go the other can because maybe the the new owner doesn't want to pay $400 and then you have a Administration problem cost yeah we we we do have a process for getting the cans back I mean we we we have been doing that we sent out on the garbage cans we sent out like two months ago letters to all the residents um letting them know what the charge was if they want to return mayor may I say something I kind of agree with you because you have two cans but you're only putting one out at a time so what difference does it make if you has two or three or however many cans we're only being charged for that one can that he puts out when it's being picked up he is put them both out the same puts out one time the problem is regulation of it right so the only way we can and everyone doing that puts out two cars but no you can't put out two you can only put out one how how are we going to force him only putting out one he seem like pretty no I I I'm I'm I'm saying my sidewalk too let I I haven't heard this objection let me go back to what I said before Can You Reach Out by email to the Chris and we'll and we'll have that discussion thank you for raising very much appreciate yesan already but uh I just want say first off to say thank you for considering about the the support for Mard Pond friends fond and um want to reemphasize the importance of that and uh definitely appreciate the the urgency better this part one question I have is regarding theing and specifically with the second round com up is that set in still or there an opportunity to put that further off until then we have so that we reallocate we we haven't made any decision to to do anything um the the next step in the process truthly was that volunteer weekend and now it seems like that's not our best option and that's why you know immediately we're like all right we need to we need a committee to form and determine what the next option is um so to answer your question is that a possibility yes I will give you feedback that about a year and a half ago I asked what is the best practice you know because I sense from some of the feedback I got from people that dredging was a better option than Hydra raing the feedback I was getting was uh dredging is probably the better option but there's a lot more Hoops to jump through to get to that point I guess there's a lot of certifications and um you know yeah different certificates you need to get and then the next step is the financial side it was I don't want to get the number wrong it was a crazy crazy number it was it was we're talking not Millions we're talk I'm sorry we're not talking $90,000 talking Millions that's that's the number I got so that that's why I mentioned earlier on that you know I think it's driven by the environmental Commission because I think that's where the most expertise is I do think that there's probably some other people with expertise in the burrow that could help I think there's some passion right on the pond where you know when I did knock on doors across the burrow that was a very graphic specific form of feedback that I got I heard a lot of people talking about the pond in that area so maybe there's opportunity for for uh residents like yourself to join to that committee as well um and we're going to consider all that and then that committee is quickly as they can uh provide options that's what we want and then in the meantime our B administrator Mr York is in conversation with the county to see if we can hire it government hiring government to hydrate if they have the capacity to Hydra rate meaning the equipment Manpower and expertise um that's a very um that's a very efficient approach to service that might be a fit for that's more financial background right we keep emphasizing Hydra raking versus dredging just because those mean two totally different things so I just wanted to highlight that yeah and then forget about Miss so with the Hydra rating say try to push thatf I might no no you're good you're good that off Dre I'd rather save the money for Al Che awesome thanks for the feedback ad3 Oxford that was my question but I was already standing up so um but I did I did want to say I I kind of I don't live on the pond but I did crash the meeting last night and um I'm always amazed at how many um residents we have that are willing to get involved and give up their Sunday night to come and talk about issues that are important to him to them so thank you Elise for for getting that together um totally psych that there's a committee being formed um and so yeah that was my question was did we consider dreading I know you said there were maybe some issues with the bulk head um I know you talked about the three prong Pro I also wondered about the actual kind of structural issues um I think one of the and again I learned a ton last night talking to Residents who are there every day and they see the changes uh you know the one of the storm drains was plugged the the I don't even know the drainage pipes are maybe too small we've all seen the flooding that's going on at the pond so hopefully we're also looking at that piece how can we what kind of structural changes can we make to going forward um lessen issues and then I I did learn from one of the residents who was in here that that chemical is actually it's a if it's what you're talking about it's a bacteria that will actually eat the silt um and it's has a much less of an environmental impact it sounds like it might be a lot more expensive but it might be something worth considering if we get a longer kind of result from that as opposed to regular chemicals so um I have stacks up night so don't don't just may if I just can right so those those observations right those those anecdotes of what are happening around are so critical because then the professionals right can go investigate and determine if the pipe is too small or confirm if you know we have fourth quer treat under there so more of those anecdotes and observations I consider them like leads and evidence that then professional then can go investigate and come back and and help them for and so I hope that you will consider the members of the of the friends committee as as part of your committee because there is a like I said I learned a ton last night you know people like Michael was actually on the environmental commission as well I think she would bring a lot to it um there's so many great smart people in this town that just want to help so we're really lucky thank you thank youh hi 7 plan rep um I just had two questions uh one was the software like what's the current state of software here do we have any are we got swapping from older to newer really have nothing is there so let's refine the question is there any software specific to automating process like we're talking about yeah everything is manual and paper okay great information question you're a p i Am EXC then the Harding bird sanctuary uh like we kind of came in mid conversation right like do you guys have an a goal or a problem you're trying to solve no I I I think the um what I would say is the problem I'm trying to solve is I don't see an overall Steward of the Harding bird sanctuary and when we started talking about mcarter Pond um in more depth uh and seeing how that deteriorated pretty quickly I mean it's been deteriorating over years but I really seen in the last six months to a year I see a huge change there I don't want to wait until it gets too late in the Harding bird sanctuary and I also see it as one of the jewels of the burough Fair Haven and if we can see some you know uh very specific improvements to that area I think that maybe more people will make use of it okay you know Council M Cole made a comment that she hasn't seen birds there I can't speak like specifically to that I've only been in there once or twice but I do think to myself if they're not there and we can find a way to get them there that could be something that would drive residents to the Eartha so it might even be a requirement when we when we do get the deed and see how the language is what's in it what what is stipulations it might be and I'll just say to you we our we are all the stewards right when when we sign up for this steing our resources is a part of the job um whether it's identifying leadership properly funding or identifying the right professional prare the plans um whe that's done at the commune level ultimately that's body uh we share that stewardship responsibility that's what you're see um where where's uh someone might know this there's a back entrance to the burn Sanctuary where is that what street is that on it's har haror there's a back entrance to the bird sanctuary y sort of like there's a third street trail back entrance like to Fair Fields it's the same thing these are some of my goals that I had the entrance is between two homes yeah yeah I'm sorry it's an empty lot between two homes there like legit lot it's not like third sheet Trail side entrance on HRI is description if the if the goal is based on the stipulation and the deed you know it is a bird sanctuary and must be maintained as a bird s we're talking about reiring a a wooded area C of exy yeah yeah well it's not like releasing fish in a pond where we could no you have established the habitat that support that life cycle more all right that attract correct go ahead thank you for the kind words about the Natural Area committee I think the committee is fantastic go your uh words on that uh you know that we have we present an annual report every year um and uh you know we strive to the effective and one of the things the points we've made is that we feel like we don't really have two a communication with the borrow um so yeah we've asked for some consistent point of contact at the borrow we don't have that we think would be important to be like we waste a lot of time chasing things down that this got lost or you know we talk to one person the other person doesn't know it um so you know our formal request was for two hours of admin time a month all we're really looking fors one direct contact that we can always talk to so that anyone wants to know what the current state of our Affairs is they can go to one email folder and see what's been going on um and kind of related to that uh the Fair Haven Road Phase 2 like nobody shared any information with us and that's immediately ajacent to the Natural Area we've also extended ourselves to try to advocate for the Cher Tree Lane and it seems like that's impacted also carollyn can I double click on that for a minute or to jump in so I had a distinct conversation um on on this side of the house where there was a specific correspondence back and forth with the Natural Area on her versus no curb uh fence versus no fence trimming certain trees all that information was per the Natural Area that came back no I'll tell you we in our annual report for the past three years we've asked for a length of curve to prevent water from coming down Beachwood and causing erosion in the Natural Area I did get an email saying we weren't going to get that and they were implementing some the other plan with no details okay I was under the impression that that that it came from you that not putting curve there was actually better and then having like some type of it was it was wild flowers so that's a proposal from the DPW so there not to us okay said all we know is that we were told we're not getting the Cur I think that there is a conversation with Nick that could be very helpful because Nick was involved in that particular piece of this and he explained in a very careful way um an up if you want to call uphill diverting water you know so that you don't get the same velocity of water that a roads be curve that exposes The Roots um and that's one one piece of a solution that a curb would provide but there were other parts of this that would include triming back the trees in the Natural Area to open it up to create more sunlight on the Cherry Tre and plant a wildflower Meadow to continue to absorb the water the extra water so it was multiple Parts this whole idea is was called Green infrastructure it's not hard infrastructure that a curb is but I think it it it's would be appropriate for um I'm just gonna yes um I mean I just Tred to give you a description but I think Nick is going to be the professional to really explain that for in in a way I know is written down that we can share with the committee members we can get it written down I'm not sure I'm not sure we have a few right now um but I I was also in the meeting and I would agree with you that for years the discussion was occurred um he very eloquently in that meeting broke down from like five different angles why this was a much better plan environmentally you know strategically what whatever you want we accept all that we're just looking for information we'll get over you yeah we'll do um I'll email you tomorrow email address I'll put you in contact with Nick do an introduction no we I mean we meet with him about once a month or so um every month or two we do a maintenance and some of those ideas about the Terry trees are actually ideas that our committee members suggested but um but if there's a plan happening right somebody could just read out to us and share some information all right thank absolutely thank you car good Mar hi3 um just I looked up the Harding bir Sanctuary so here a couple of little Snippets of what I thought might be interesting information to add to tonight's discussion this is a long time ago this is from the pr and it was written in 2013 so things may have changed slightly but it does say that this you said patch 20 2013 no no I know Pat I'm just referencing The Source patch 2013 thank you says the Harding family donated the land excuse me in 1950 with the stipulation that the premises hereby conveyed shall be used only for f and playground purposes thus making it one of the first pieces of preserved land in Fair Haven they go on but there's a lot more interesting information but at the end it says the Harding bird sanctuary was registered by the national Autobon Society in 1956 and thanks to the dedicated efforts and hard work of a garden called The Fair Haven it has remained a fully preserved and well-maintained Oasis so just to give a little can you email can you email the article to us playground is that what it said we should get I think that might be something to look into because playground doesn't necessarily mean what it means now yes I got you and if it was in the 50s that means it was 20 something years before Fair Fields so wow that's cool yes 63 fa um I have a question are there any always stops plan for Haven Road fourway there's one four-way intersection we have a few things in that we're working on and that one okay we have a few things through to that we looking at stops and stuff Haven okay so to answer your question the council has not discussed this but the chief makes all the safety recommendations may I like the whole time yes allly can you hear us I can hear you can you hear me yes okay um just going back to all the Fair Haven Road talk and planning um I agree that traffic needs to be severely calmed on our street I live at the corner of Fair Haven Road and Dogwood and to me the speeding issues are just out of control um after the horrible accidents in the last couple of months I just I don't understand how it's not a bigger initiative to reduce these issues in a more timely manner I understand the Fair Haven Road plans are coming out I've looked at them but it just seems like we've had a lot of issues and we're not on a good path um to me the plans don't address the speed issue um I have a couple questions after reviewing them like are the sharrows and the bakeling intended for our school AG children to ride to sickle school because any anyone anyone that's um a student at sickle school is um of the age that they can ride their bike on a sidewalk correct yes so okay so then our is the sharrows are and the huge signs for the share of the lane those are for adults who are B in down the road well adults or what's the age for the sidewalks he thinks this well so so it be uh children 13 or older could potentially make use of those who were adults okay and just like a separate comment to that like reviewing the plans are seem to be abundant of the share the road signs where I feel like better usage of signage on our street would be more speed limit signs actual radar signs that show your speed that you're going you know I've seen these all over towns it says your speed if you're going over it it says slow down just other signage than share the road biking um other comments that and it's great to hear from the chief that he just said there's still input but I wholeheartedly agree with Alise about the stop sign at the four-way intersection um and I've noticed that there's been stop signs up around town on Kemp and Fair Haven Road historic district and Third Street so I know mayor I spoken to to about this like I'm just wondering about all those going up and we're here pushing for um other safety issues and pedestrian safety issues on Fair Haven Road so I would strongly consider that and would love to keep talking about that um also I've mentioned speed bumps because I feel like that I've heard okay well there's plows have issues with them and um other towns around here don't really have them but I don't understand like I feel like they're proven to slow down traffic and to avoid accidents so if we could reconsider putting those in cuz I I live here the speeding is out of control I love that the police are monitoring more I see them on our street more but it's it's crazy people hit my garbage can all the time people just speed by I won't even let my kids in my front yard so I just would love some more safety help thank you Ally yes uh will I was going to save this at the end but U you're talking about safety you go to will okay if you go to eat Town they've already solved the problem with the speeding by putting in not speed bmps with speed HS okay so you take 35 sou P McDonald's take the first right you'll start running to these FS and it slows down the traffic totally because in the old days people used to use eat town as a shortcut to get to to 35 and stuff in the back so you don't have to invent the wheel again just put in those H C the space along the curve so the water can run and the problem solved and you need them on uh Fair Haven Road then you need them on uh an Road between and River Road because they use as a cut through to get to5 I we we we'll discuss it with the chief and those stop signs that you put up and the stuff people are rolling already seen it over in near the do area they're there further first couple weeks people stopped and now they're just so they're not working thank you for your [Music] time right Ruth you there I'm here you're there have been for a couple hours um I just have a question with these new electric bikes basically they are a hum if you can hear them at all and I live on River Road and I often go out in front and trim my property and on more than one occasion almost got hit by a person on a bike that I did not hear coming and there's nothing wrong with my my hearing but in the old days bikes had Bells as a courtesy do you think you could put in an ordinance as as if you got a bike put a bell on it and use it um well I I don't know about that but I can tell you you um that right now electric bikes are a huge issue um I said it at the last meeting I've seen probably 20 more instances of it since then um I'm speaking to parents I know when I'm saying this right now I've seen your children riding an ebike in a way that you would not be happy um I'm very very concerned like extremely concerned that uh we're going to get a bad phone call one of these days so please talk to your children even adults please please be careful with these electric bikes they're aching to motorcycles um without without your child needing to get a license or take any of the courses associated with with uh with having one um Ruth to answer your question at the next council meeting um I'm hopeful that we're going to be able to introduce uh an ebike ordinance um I'm not sure it's going to have anything about bells on it um but there will be some restrictions that hopefully will improve the situation okay my second issue is several several weeks ago probably at least three meetings ago you assured me that the light situation on River Road was going to be remedied with all the gray boxes and this whole thing was going to be taken care of and you said specifically within weeks well it's been a number of weeks what's happening well I meant within weeks one more week than you were thinking um I I actually happened to email the B administrator about this this morning I noticed that the timers weren't matching up on each side of the road um I believe that we had a b engineer wi it tonight that was going to or sometime this yeah I'm already in contact with uh Nick from DPW um sending DPW Cru out to coordinate all of that there's also a concern about the color um our lights it's the color effect is not necessarily our lights it's a jcpnl lights so I put an email to Frank Luna the coordinate in order to get those bulbs changed as well great he sent us the the order form and how we're to do that so so in the process of getting that done and with the exception of installing the new posts which are on the LI correct yes the work is complete complete the end of that roof is there's a few there's still a few posts that need to be replaced really there we still waiting for that order to come in once they it comes in they're going to be installed but there are an awful lot of gray boxes out there are they all poles yes yes wow ni a random question about the lights so there's specific but on the corner of Colonial Court and Smith Street there's a light that I think is sensored but like waits till I'm right underneath and it's it happens to be a very dark light are they all sensored like how is that supposed to be a sensor motion sensor or lightens I don't know because it's like off all the time the jcpnl lights are light sensor they're not motion sensor is it a jcpnl light it might be probably you know what I'll do um I do a ride around every morning before I come in so uh Colonial SM right check it Tom check out cuz it's so dark and then I'm like well that was useless Jason PL lights are not censored they're censored for light but not censor for motion so I I'll look at it tomorrow Michael Michael um the lights in the Acme parking lot at night I think after a certain hour are on motion sense so if it's if it's if it's the back of the shopping center could it be one of their lights it's across the street though it's on the other side okay all right maybe somehow it's connected I'll check it out all right thanks yeah Alison anyone else no sir Alison I did get one email um can I read it real quick Ronald candria sent us an email um he was having connection issues with zoom that kept freezing up this is about eik safety concerns of fa Haven and I'll just read it real quick says thank you all for hearing my concerns in an email I did join this evening's meeting on on Zoom stayed on quite a long time found the video freezing quite often audio was a bit better still not satisfactory did not feel that my sharing through Zoom would be effective so I decided to leave one thing uh I will add one thing might the police department consider if not already doing this doing stops and safety checks of riders exhibiting unsafe behaviors this could be most valuable with the fastest throttle controlled class 3 ebikes by discussing safe riding practices with stop Riders checking if they're an age requirement to wear a helmet and checking to see if there are age permitted to ride class 3 ebikes even contacting Riders parents if Riders are not supposed to be using that class of bikes that is from Ron pandrea we already are stopping somebody that is improperly using the bike you can't just stop just AG anybody a helmet or so there new initiative where L donated uh a couple hundred cards of uh free slice of pizza and the officers are going out and either are doing the right thing or get a that's nice that probably 10 years ago and then we just started it now um just last week so they are already sto them the parents were appropriate and also awesome great job Chief thank you L thank you l um so I also have an email here someone that um is unable to attend tonight's council meeting um I'm just going to read their questions and they are generally in favor of sub but they have questions or concerns I'm just reading for the record so we can get back for them or um and this is from Bridget mlan at 345 fair fair Heaven Road with the addition of bike Lanes which will make the street even more narrow what is the plan for the speed limit if there are bike Lanes does that mean guests to our home will not be permitted to park on the street in front of our house will the town be responsible for upkeep of the sidewalks if the sidewalk needs to be replaced due to wear and tear will that burden be on the homeowner what additional signs will be added to the street and where will our tax assessment be lowered since we now have less profit well no the sidewalks are in the burrow right away that one I can answer immedately um and I see Ronald's email as well okay uh anyone else Alison no ran did you have someone else what is the answer for who's in charge the sidewalk as far as if the sidewalk starts to deteriorate it would be the burrow that would need to like for instance we just fixed fa road down in the historic district we just fixed Gentry sidewalks that would be the burrow as it relates to if there's a snowstorm I think there's like a 48 hour period in which the homeowner does clear the sidewalk of snow yes yeah you're not allow and it's definitely necessary to have a bike L just one BL one part of the show or is it a [Music] dedicated is it a do I don't had last last meeting we had the plan yeah I'm here Rich can you speak to that to whether that's a dedicated bike lane or shos the block button the the bike lane goes from Ridge Road to Hillcrest on both uh travel Lanes heading north and south and then north of Hillcrest it turns into the sharrow which takes you to River Road to tie into that bike bike Network so the bike path is only going a couple blocks it goes from Ridge to Hill crest um correct like like bun Wood's the first right you make off Ridge Hill Crest is the second one short at the top of the hill are is there plans to extend it I'm sorry I missed that piece of it on it's what he's saying is the and I might be getting your question wrong the bike lane goes from Ridge to Hill crest and then at Hill Crest towards River Road it becomes Shadows be continuous you can't do the enre I think when we have I think when we have shs it's because the width of the road rich is that correct it's it's the width of the cartway or the paved width and RightWay considerations parking on the street do you park there now and you can't park in chars also I get I kind of get their question though like why do decide right there to make it a bike lane wouldn't it be more consistent to be the sherow the WID I get but if we can't it's that's the point of a and Rich you should probably walk us through this but where we have the width it's always advisable to do bike lane a bike lane a dedicated bike lane and if you can't accommodate it then you should showers but up you would help us yes that is true so as part of the design when you you look at the pavement widths that you're dealing with because we have pre-existing conditions here anywhere you can try to lay in a bike lane to the standard for that type of design you would try to put in a dedicated bike lane it goes to the same um feel of what Tracy mentioned earlier in the discussion earlier about traffic coming it Narrows the travel Lane it allows a dedicated bike lane or safe passage between that it's it's like a it's like a shoulder stripe between the edge of the travel Lane and the curb and it it's no different than what we did on River Road on the down by Red Bank we added a bike lane where the pavement was wider and allows you to lay one in there it's the same type of design and then as you transition back into the other section of Fair Haven Road we transition to the shos so you you incorporate these different Design Elements um to increase p and bike safety and I was going to mention earlier when we design these streets we're designing them with The Pedestrian and bicycle in mind we're not designing like we did 20 years ago to get a car from A to B as quick as we can so anytime you can put in these type of complete Street initiatives and Design Elements to create traffic caling to create driver awareness to create pedestrian and bike safety along with appropriate signage high visibility striping the crossw walks all the things we've talked about especially as you approach the um the school areas and all the other improvements that we've done um in in recent years we talked about the sidewalk we added we talked about the improvements at Third Street we're enhancing the Third Street intersection by use of striping it's an economical way to do so it's an effective way to do so and more importantly it fits the design initiative that we've been doing throughout the burrow in other areas on some of these other streets and it also it also falls into place remembering that we did get considerable money in excess of 900,000 from NJ doot and they endorse these types of projects and promote these typ types of improvements I feel for you because I know what I Ro you see how it's snowballing that it's snowballing two bik lanes that no one's going to use and that 15 resents W be able to FR of their homes that's the point they're going to lose substantial Dage especially and and CH now residents that live in the woods and there's no res on no one's going to use that VI never see anyone come down that direction from the street and that's what upsets us but it's the residents that are paying the price we're not getting anything from that I know in a perfect real world in a perfect drawing in a busy town maybe or visit yes but there those really will not be used and we l for and that's better than should time the white down side I think you can have continuously in trun if ask the engineer it's breaking up I couldn't hear him from the back of the thaner like every other so if you stripe the edge of the travel Lane which I think you're talking about which would be creating a shoulder that shoulder would not be wide enough to park a car car legally so when you drive down Fair Haven Road now and there's a car parked or cars parked along the edge of pavement or existing curb line chances are or not chances are um the paving the pavement width the travel Lane withd is not to proper standard so if we stripe that line and you see this on a lot of the County County Paving projects they've been putting in these these shoulder lines you're not going to be you're not going to have an eight foot shoulder to park to have as a parking Lane you're GNA have more of what is left over like we propose a bike lane you know four to five feet in width the the right away the the the cartway width simply is not there to do that but it sounds like you're parking there periodically I say separate from parking why why do we need the Shadow bik Lane so simple just having road with white strike outside to separate the bikes I mean you might get a different answer from other people but my answer to that is when you look at our master plan every every master plan has a transportation or kind of circulation component the circulation component of fair Haven's master plan which is our road n that's our guiding document isn't about cars it's about bikes and pedestrians the fact that that circulation element doesn't primarily address cars tells us that the infrastructure improvements that we're going to apply for brand Flore and what tax dollars towards is towards improving the infrastructure supports pedestrian and bicycle circulation that is a Hallmark of the community and recall that when a master plan is written it's driven in large part by Resident contributions repeated Outreach and feedback from the community along with the technical authors who prepare it but it's driven by the community when it's prepared so that's have a major harmark of fa Haven and it's the reason that we prioritize bicycle pedestrian infrastructure I have one more question but in the history of doing different streets and doing different things range was slated for sidewalks no sidewalks no curves all natural what's the difference in this scenario that one neighborhood the majority of people don't want the sidewalks they say doesn't work also have this on hand so they didn't want they want so I H so why is our our voice of our 50 individuals okay it's a little over 10 not the same as the res other streets I'm just asking for the counsil to respect that I can answer I have a different response than other members of the body so I'm speaking for myself um that was a different governing body um I wouldn't if that happened now I would I wouldn't um I wouldn't support that situation um where uh you know you end up with I've used the term before in here a Frankenstein Project a project that's not completely designed in a way it should be for safer streets safer access um storm order management uh the whole the whole mcgilla so I hear I EXA I definitely hear what you're saying um I feel as if uh I said um personally I'm talking for myself tried to set a precedent that we wouldn't do a project like that again um we we have a burough engineer for a reason that designs these uh roads to certain standards we did take feedback from the community um I could tell you the meeting we had two or three weeks ago uh was 100% dedicated to trying to apply feedback trying to apply all the safety standards in a reasonable way there were other safety ideas that were brought up that for different reasons we passed them um so you know every project is not the same but from from my specific personal Viewpoint um you know we we shouldn't let uh one neighborhood dictate a project um that could benefit the entire bur that's just my answer that one more perspective thatford um just on the bike Lanes we were talking about how fast people drive down H I've also seeing how fast people bike bikers that are biking um you have a two block bike lane that suddenly meets the road and so my concern would be a I feel like a lot of the folks that are biking are from out of town they see a bike lane they're picking up speed and all of a sudden your bike lane ends and you have a speeding driver you're all sharing showering the road um I I don't know like seems a little counter intuitive to me but just something to consider that everyone's going to be picking up speed and then all of a sudden that fight lane ends and the cars and the bikes for me being in the road um it just does I don't personally it doesn't it just seems a real thank you Stephanie anyone else right uh moving along to approval of minutes July 8 2024 regular meeting July 8th uh 2024 executive session do I have a motion to approve second alate please have a roll call Co yes yes she yes um old business hearing adoption ordinance uh uh all in favor I anyone opposed is there anyone up here that has any comments on this is there anyone in the Public Public comment on 202 24-10 Alison is there anyone on Zoom no I have a motion to close motion to close second all in favor I anyone opposed I have a motion to approve motion to approve second second Alison may I please have a roll call yes did you get me because I wasn't here no no this is we're voting on this start yes yes yes yes yes and I'm going to take a moment to give a compliment to um uh Allison right now is I can't remember the last time she even like made a little slip up so that's it's a compliment how great you are at this I mean that I second that all in favor but she's still mad at me because I pointed out her I'm not all right uh next up we have a facilities update councilman La bar has a few things to talk about yes and we'll try and be as safe as possible um DPW sighting if you recall there was a drought in Mexico that prevented the color um the uh it's over the drop the Dr that was the original color everybody stand up get the blood flow and be good um the the recommended color from the professionals is there um the St the DPW siding um the stone hasn't changed the M hasn't changed the white trim hasn't changed um but that is as close to the original color 8 to 10 week lead time and then keeping with the spirit over the last 18 months we wanted to make sure the governing body was aware and vo any comments questions concerns looks great okay great job um maybe a bad idea do you think there's some sort of like interior decorator in town that we just run it by we can we run it by no am I wrong we ran it by the professionals design I love it let's go well yeah a trout and and it that speaks to the next thing so if you recall BFI is the furniture provider last year the budget was approved Etc and so the furniture um has a 12we lead time is fully color coordinated right if you remember the professionals the interior designers all that went from the roof all the way down to the piece of furniture Police Department's blessed from Chief um DPW is blessed from the DPW team the community center Furniture was blessed from here so the furniture will be ordered just want to make sure the government body was aware but it it all goes on time within Budget on time and within budget love that um long-term parking so this is the long-term parking design for fish Chapel we're going to be having our kickoff call likely in the next few weeks uh the Improvement the the design uh excuse me the uh professionals have been approved the funds have been encumbered so this is is to kick off the design call with our fish Chapel stakeholders want to make sure he's tracking um back Community Center I'll come back next time we can do those next but we don't have to rush list to just for Spirit time wait what did you just say about the do the community center content for the plot you're do at the next meeting oh sure and then Bas off you're G to do the next meeting sure okay um so that's it for facilities um Brut and leaf we're going to be assembling the committee again um and looking to take in all the feedback that we've seen to date so the request the governing body is is any feedback that you have please point it to uh bur administrator York he's going to compile all the feedback residents our own feedback Etc the committee will take it digest it and we'll look to have recommendations so that we can do next year better because there definitely areas that we can improve for next year um one small offer the um we're sort of still within the new program calendar year feedback now is great can we also understand that they'll be feedback towards the end I think by the time we're doing rolling Leaf you know heads be clear we'll have a year under our Bell we might have better picture check check 100% And as we discussed nothing will be printed on a calendar unless we all agree and not not only do we agree that there's a resolution that approves it and uh B Miss York and I had a conversation uh about that and it won't happen thank you you're welcome welcome that's it m just for Spirit well uh okay so we're good so we're going to move into new business introduction of ordinances 202 24-11 amend ordinance number 20247 land use and development regulations comply with njp storm Warner management rules so this this ordinance went to surrounding municipalities and to the county when it was introduced it was also sent to them upon adoption and that's when the county decided to make comments it doesn't have to go through the same process of the 35 days because it's not it doesn't affect the ordinance in anyway it's just the title and doesn't have to go to the pl board or we could just it's a Dom change perfect any have a motion second Alison may I please have a roll call Paul yes yes yes yes yes thank you 24-12 create Capital ordinance for police car purchas I have one question on this Chief how are we putting the thing together like didn't we used to use um yeah we have a local our repair shop is that but but it's we used to do it ourselves so now we got to pay the shop I assume right is that built into yeah okay thank and if if and if the governing body recalls right when we were dealing with the budget challenges this year um going from lease to the capital purchase was one of the levers we pulled to make sure that we were within budget yes that's correct okay so just want to make sure everybody has the background this was budgeted for adopted planned for so Chief what's the lead time on procurement um actually they they have one stock so beautiful motion to approve 202 24-12 second yes can I have a roll call please lover bar yes I'm moving along you did not call my name I did too did you just did you just say that she made a second mistake I did not call my name there was conversation it was because of his joke let's start over Paul yes yes everybody has yes yes thank you um consent agenda resolutions 2024 184 through 195 I'm just pointing out um you know it doesn't mean that we can't continue awarding this contract for p doesn't mean we can't continue the discussion on the design with our B engine here right uh and and may if I recall right that the approval tonight like we're at the last day for the do grants corre this is just about awarding the contract and locking in the Grant and the fact that they're going to do the okay yeah so um does anyone any questions about anything on the agenda yes it's less than the original was found in con than RCF yes good job 200,000 thank you um do any any questions first on anything on here does anyone want to separate anything on the consent agenda no uh any make a motion to approve motion to approve second Alon M please have a roll call call yes yes yes yes yes okay thank you next up Department reports Jun 2024 does anyone here have a motion to accept the reports possibly with a thank you motion with a thank you second favor I anyone opposed no uh let's move along to good of the burrow please stand and identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please observe a time limit of 3 minutes is there anyone public comment sorry good to the Burl the bur no Alison no one has their hand all right thank you uh we are moving towards adjournment we we don't have the exact session oh all right welcome we're adjourning tonight at 9:42 p.m. motion motion second all in favor you