all right let's pull this me's order at 7:01 p.m. start with spute to the flag I pledge allegiance flag of the United States of America the stands naice please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of November 13 2023 is available by call and phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it's time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the rais hand button and we'll be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2023-the that two times in the Star Ledger on January 6 2023 post on the burough website the Bolton board and the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk has directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison may please have a roll call council members Paul yes to yes yes Bara yes NE yes bradress yes administrator Council gr is attending by zoom and attorney thank you uh moving right along to Old business hearing adoption of ordinance number 20236 amend Chapter 30 replace reran buffer ordinance to be reran Zone uh do I have a motion to open motion to open second all in favor anyone oppos is there anyone up here that wants to comment on this well we should explain what it is baby before I go to the public though is there anyone up here that wants to comment on it Tera you're muted no sir I'm good I think it speaks for itself and we went over at the last meeting you yeah this is U this is an update to basically is kind of housekeeping um this brings our ordinance language zoning language into compliance with the way the state looks at refan zone so it's more consistent that'll be helpful for our L juice SPS and our residents and one other piece so when the um the end report um last year and even the year before came out the zoning board um identified what I'll call some friction points because when you have an ordinance locally that conflicts with State guidance it adds some confusion um so it was really important to ensure a complete alignment using the same lexicology um so that there's no U confusion anyone in the public has a comment on ordinance number 20236 no Alison anyone online no second uh do I have a motion to close motion to close second all in favor I anyone oppose I have a motion to approve motion to approve 20236 second Al may please have a roll call yes yes yes yes NE yes r not yes yes thank thank you ordinance number 2023 d18 authorized acquisition of real property for public purposes 21 Fair Haven Road do I have a motion to open motion to open second all in favor anyone opposed ises anyone up here have any comments on um a few I being a member of the deliberative body um I'm a little short on information to my knowledge and I asked earlier today we haven't received back any of the assessments um that because I understand they're they're underway but we don't have any of Nigerian findings or any the assessments that have presumably will be part of our decision-making process I I don't know if there are tanks there I don't know if business best in that property I don't have I don't really have any data this this just so you know this won't change the actual ordinance itself the all of the due diligence that's involved in both the state's checklist the County's checklists and uh the various professionals that are working on this will still be followed prior to us executing any uh contract of sale to my mind and Teresa if you understand something different please say so um this is the governing body's last opportunity to to speak to deliberate or undertake any kind of process as it relates to the acquisition of property if this ordinance is adopted tonight everything May roll out but it's not going to come back to the council for consideration it will not come back only only so much is that uh it is authorized for the mayor to execute the agreements provided everything that uh is in the checklist and the due diligence is in order but theoretically if for example any of the assessments came back with say in a phase one environmental could identify oil tanks or kind of thing that would obviously cost more money to clean up um they're unknown I guess is what if there was a phase one environmental that came back um the the uh County would most likely uh if it was indicated uh it was necessary they would order a phase two if that's the case I would come to the Govern body to tell them that we wouldn't be obligated to purchase it unless it passed the entire checklist flying colors is that what we're saying not only wouldn't we be obligated Tracy but this the both the state and the county wouldn't give us the grant unless we accepted the responsibility for the cleanup um no they they they' want to be sure that that was taken care of before they um put any funds towards the purchase so what what are the other these this is all no information so what are the other sort of um deal breakers that that we cannot foresee at this point Teresa I can chime in here go ahead so so another would be clean title right so there's a title contingency there's the inspection contingency there's an environmental contingency um obviously financing is not relevant at this point um because we do have that Grant um so those are three contingencies that would have to be satisfied in order for us to move through so essentially in like layman's terms what we're doing is we're authorizing the ability to go through the attorney review period and now by amend by adopting this ordinance is we now go we're under contract per se okay and that's what we do now all the contingencies are triggered they we have our opportunity to do the do diligence obviously if there is a problem and we are not able to get a grant because of a condition uh of the property then that would trigger the financing contingency because we would not be able to get the grant whatever the case may be you know there's so many different things that could go wrong with a purchase of a property as you're aware M so this is getting us through the attorney review period and now we'll be consider if it's adopted tonight we'd be under contract and then if I follow what you're saying and I have some experience with that I understand completely the only time that it would come before this body again in terms of the acquisition would be if there's a problem that is insurmountable or someone would deem it to be instr mountable yes who's the someone well that's what um you have an attorney that drafted this ordinance um Sal Al Fury's office drafted it and so he is the attorney representing the burrow in the purchase of this property it doesn't speak to contingencies though in the ordinance in least what we have in our packet well this is authorizing the ability to for the mayor to sign to go under contract I guess this seems to be a lot of information we don't have yet and I don't know that since we haven't gotten it yet but but we're being asked to authorize the acquisition um I would just like to make sure that we get that information you'll get also go ahead I was gonna say that this is not the similar to when um we pass a bond ordinance where it it gives the governing body and the public a a chance to go through a process that shows your intent to make a a major in this case Capital purchase or or or to buy a piece of property that process in and of itself is served by the ordinance because we have you know we we we introduce the ordinance we uh advertise the ordinance we adopt the ordinance and and you know it gives the public a opportunity to weigh in on the actual purchase of the property the rest of the the checklists and and the U contracts and all of that um that will be done through our professionals due diligence and cooperation with the state's professionals and attorneys and the County's professionals and attorneys and ultimately would would have the mayor ultimately signing the contract if and when everything is in order we can't find out the information regarding any sort of conditions with the property unless we authorize and adopt this ordinance I thought those condition assessments are underway now they are underway now some of them are under way yes certainly could get that information back prior to authorizing we can get that information back because what we're doing is we're operating in good faith right that we're going to adopt this ordinance that's that's the way that they're operating the seller they're saying this is good faith I'm going to allow you to conduct these inspections and and um due diligence while it goes through the governmental process of adopting the ordinance if if if we had no desire if they didn't think that we had any sort of intention of purchasing this property they wouldn't allow just you know all these professionals to come and Survey the land and do all their inspections they would put it out to another you know potential purchaser who would then undertake that those same inspections but those conditions and those inspection contingencies aren't realized until you're under contract well theoretically we could just wait another meeting and get the information back when do you think those assessments will be completed um I really don't have a final date on that Tracy I don't um I don't know that I know that s's working with uh the attorneys for the county and um I'm not positive when all of that you know the title search all of what's gone into you know the final checklist um will be pulled together so if anything comes back on the report and anything on the checklist that might be missing for you know needs updating it comes here first right before if if anything was relevant I would certainly bring it to the full governing body obviously we would share it right away with the the mayor and uh you know the our burough attorney and uh if it if warranted coming back into either executive session or or public session we would certainly put it on uh the following agenda Andrew is it is it I'm going to make a metaphor here right to help me understand what you're saying right if I'm going to buy a house I wouldn't have an home inspection until I'm out of attorney review correct and then I'm under contract then I hire the home inspector they come in if they find anything I hire additional people because I don't want to put money into it unless I know I'm under contract in series exactly is it can can we draw a similar parallel here with 21 Fair Haven Road that we wouldn't want to invest I understand the whole good faith thing right but but theoretically you wouldn't want to invest a penny until you're under contract knowing that you and the seller are in agreement that they're going to sell it to you underneath conditions a b and c if if radioactive material is uncovered obviously we're not going to buy it right if something significant shows up based on the contingencies we're not going to buy it right because the contingencies say hey we're willing to buy this property under these left and rights that's what the contingencies are and if anything Falls outside of that then it needs to be discussed and reviewed right because you can always terminate the contract right okay thank you I think the difference in this case is it's all just going to roll out without coming back here unless there's a problem meaning there's no other opportunity for us to examine the intention and what we think is the best thing for Fair Haven this this is it well if there's no other problem then we've I think if if the vote is an approval tonight and the governing body has decid to move forward right if there is a problem I think what we're hearing here is administrator C is going to bring it back to the governing body for a discussion and it's two different intents right mayor it's intention to acquire versus the intention of what's going to go there right those are two separate TS W totally two separ I I think what she's saying is she she's concerned about the acquisition if there's an issue with the property which I understand what she's saying but it sounds like there's still a path forward even with that concern anything else public this is now your time to comment on 21 Fair Haven Road um because the vote will be right after this so if you have a comment in the public please come up state your name address the record the due diligence that's being referenced here tonight is County driven um and Grant driven and what what are you ready to vote on what due diligence what information do you know about my neighborhood in terms of health self safety and Welfare about proceeding to this point there is nothing about due diligence in this ordinance that's being proposed as it's as it's read so these contingencies that you're assuring and I'm not really fond of the sound nothing personal Teresa that that it's subjective that it'll come back here for further review if something kicks off in the County's requirements what are our Town's requirements what are we saying needs our criteria for acquisition of that property before we vote to acquire it out what what I'm I'm not being pacious I would like to know what the four individuals who have said that they would like to proceed with this what do you know that we don't know we're very concerned that our street can support additional Public Access at all so what traffic and safety has been determined that that's valid what welfare of our street justifies a second part I'm not saying that it does or it doesn't at this moment I have personal feelings about that but what what data have you actually looked at I I'm very uncomfortable that this is personal and gut feelings that people are writing on and there's only the criteria of the county being that it's overly polluted for our budget I don't even know what our budget is you haven't really put out that criteria either there just seems to be commitment up foot that Josh and Teresa can buy piece property without coming back here even if there's nothing wrong with the property on those criterias what makes it appropriate for us what engineering what what who have we what professional data are you comfortable why are you so comfortable and I'm uncomfortable what what have you I don't know you said that this has been kicked around for two years in those two years have you collected professional information that meets the criteria that you said out that says beyond the scope of the master plan I totally understand master plan is it everyone's desire to have more access to the water sure have we set a criteria that says that there's any place in found that that criteria actually works it's a it's a lovely aspiration but it needs to be measured against something I just want to know what what what professional information have you reviewed that you're saying to me as um as a homeowner on that street with the amount of children that I have on the street with issues that are requiring ing a Revisited ordinance for the public park I already have on that street what we should so comfortable miss m what what um what is your concern my concern is that the three can't support okay so we're making an additional an additional part and that we are proceeding with undefined okay undefined resources to apply to that Park passive or otherwise right so park hasn't been addressed right this count decrease it becomes a circular SL I think just just to uh inter you for just a quick sec I think based on that that we're making the assumption that by purchasing this property there will be increased for traffic we're making that assumption right I'm not making that assumption you're not I'm not you're you're you're to acire Public Access you're voting to acquire a piece of property that's required to have Public Access based on the funding that you're accepting but you don't think that that is going to increase traffic well we we haven't taken a vote yet so we don't know how councilwoman H is gonna vote at this point but I but I'm just I'm asking so you're saying you have no I'm just saying we're operating function making assumptions that by Pur based on what is my question that's I'm saying you're making the Assumption that's what I'm saying I want to know what your vote is based on so you're gonna find you're gonna find out what our vote is V is what it's based on so so what I would say is we're kind of getting back into the same dialogue as the W which is fine but at this point we're acquiring the park we haven't designed it yet which you've pointed out we have not designed what that Park's going to be what the use is going to be uh the amount of passive you know versus not being active I'll just use those two terms at the same time uh based on what we end up designing down there that's probably going to determine whether there's increased foot traffic whether there's increased parking whether and and that's going to be part of the design process that we're going to incorporate all the residents of our town help us understand gosh I'm not for input so much when we get to the design phase I think I am Mis that's great too we're asking for input now well it's hard to give you it's hard to give you data on something that we don't know what it's going to be I've told you that I said I said that at the last meeting I think that you can provide data what Tye what what specific data are you looking for I'm looking for health safety and Welfare I'm looking for if we have an obligation at the top of the street that absorbs an undefined traffic obligation parking obligation District how in fact does that that ffect our street than how the bottom half of the street already supports the dock how does before we plan and design anything down on the bottom of the street we're going to do why would we acquire something why were we making a commitment to acquire something that we don't have some of this information about why would this seems so much the part before the horse Karen respectfully I think we had the same discussion last meeting and I I just I'm not looking to rehead I respect your opinion and I understand what you're saying but I just feel like we're going to keep going in a circle okay I would respectfully ask I would ask that Cil three delays a vote until what I feel is accountable information for you and for your accountability to us um that that time frame be established I know that there's concern about running out uh the grants you may find at the end of the analysis they're not applicable we should be in a position to walk away from this beyond the idea that there's an oil tank in it we should be setting up criteria of our own food deligence and I would like to request that the ordinance be sheld until such a Time that that can be acquired thank you is anyone else in the public with the public comment R go I'm at 268 there m 23 so I concur with a lot of what Karen said and I think our overall concern as Community which we we discussed last time like you said Josh is the uh the traffic the end of the block the safety at the end of the block and the fact that you are potentially moving forward to purchase something that will drive traffic no matter what you do driving traffic down there it's going to be an attraction whether there is a spray ground a bench or a trip no spray I know you guys talk about no spray um whatever is down there is going to draw more more more people just like the dock there's nothing at the dock except an interest in maybe fishing or cramping so now you're going to have the extension of the dock be the park of some sort whether it's locally passive and not active um and it is going to be a draw down the traffic down there is is terrible the way it is this is going to be more of a situation down there with regard to that um and I think with regard to the house of 23 fa road we adjo the property directly and we're very concerned just about the safety of our house our step back because it's a side setep back is 4T from now where the park is so at the end of the day you know I'm going to hold all of you accountable for the safety of my daughter my son in that house because now all of a sudden the public is going to have access right up to right up to my property um so I would also ask do not vote on this tonight let's gather more information as to what effect any kind of park down there is going to have whether it's active or passive because there is going to be an effect for the neighborhood and the fact that we don't know that going in and we're going to purchase this in the hopes of developing something which we don't understand the outcome I think is a mistake thank you thank you pet any else in public yes hi my name is s 7 Ro um just to draw on the example that you were bringing up in regards to um basically comparing the situation to buying a land and sending your inspector as a family someone would go very similar to the example you were getting um someone would like to purchase a piece of land well you talk to your family first you find out of the schools uh are appropriate for your children you find out what the taxes are you find out a variety of things and components before you go and even put in an offer because you have to think about all of these things ahead of time um now all I'm saying is this is very a very similar situation that's what we're talking about we're talking about looking at this first before we go making offers and going to attorney review as you specify as as an example right we be going we be through attorney at right would be done with we be done with attor okay so we are we're way past the stage of well turning review is just a PR I understand but that comes way before you as a family us as a family have decided that we want to purchase the land attorning review is after you made an offer and you are ready to go and purchase actually establish the purchase and hope cross your fingers that it's goes just fine and we haven't even defined by the way what these criteria are that we would actually have a problem during has this been established so that's what I'm proposing here is it's very similar to what the examples that you very well put out and I'm saying we need um to find out certain specific things for example there is a a firm that is actually doing some inquiry or research to see what's going on let's wait until we find what this comes up with at least and let's suspend I also concur with P my wife and uh with Peter uh please don't take let's just wait thank you is there else in the public the public comment question um so something does come up inection in during the on to your um example of if for a family buying home sometimes something that maybe not going to cut the deal but my husband and I talked do we really want a house with a pool so what happens if something like that comes up are you guys going to rec convene is there another vote who has the final say the governing board always had the final say this because there would be a contingency that was not met something that violated the contract but would if it something that's more subjetive like a pool isn't in violation but when we bought my house it has a pool so my husband and I had a discussion question what if something comes up that's not like it doesn't like you know it's not like black and white there's a great issue so so we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna have to have a thoughtful discussion like off the top of my head I'd have to have more information myself on what that issue is I'm thinking about you know what's going on over with the police department that there's some as bestus there to me to if I were to hear that in that house that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I heard that there was a tank that was leaking oil that would probably be somewhat of a deal breaker Comm me so I think we'd have to have more information as to what the environmental issue or whatever the issue was in order to answer that question sorry so not like the type but not the type of issue but who I guess is it would you guys take another vote let's just say if you guys were three and three right now like is it you as the mayor do you get Tye breaking so like you guys G to actually vote let me see if I can answer your question I don't know I I don't it doesn't sound like there'd be another vote but I would be reaching out to every member of the governing body independently to to you know explain the situation and what was going on uh to see whether there was consensus in in individual consensus to to uh potentially support me making a decision to move forward at that point this is what I know in answer to your question because it's not that much far from where I was headed um and our mayor does do that and I I know that he would do that um however the way the resolutions have been written we have fully empowered um our bro administrator to roll out all the aspects of this acquisition um and that's why I wanted to know if if we need a kill switch for some reason where is that built in because I don't think that this process um I don't think that this process was very reassuring to the neighborhood I don't think that this process gave us a lot of information to deliberate open and openly in the public forum which would offer at least a level of reassurance we don't have any of that information we've been told you know it's going to happen this way um I have a different process in mind I'll share with you at another time perhaps um that said and I've read the documents carefully the votes that preceded tonight have authorized the burough administrator to act on behalf of this body to complete the acquisition I think that clear about that that's mayor you have you have the that's not the contract of sale that is ultimately the paperwork that is run through the state and the county and and just so you know the county one of one of the things whether it's the Green Acres or whether it's the county uh themselves they they need to put a lot of resources into this this still has to go to the County Board of recreation Commissioners it has to go to the county um uh Commissioners at a public meeting you know for their vote for the actual Grant and the acquisition um and and and they they don't want to move forward until the burrow shows in the form of the ordinance process that the governing body is supportive of this acquisition that that in of itself like anything else the county does when there's a grant involved the public hearing portion of it and the ultimate adoption by the governing body is really what tells them that we're interested in moving forward with the purchase of this and and partnering with the county to have them fund the million you know 6875 towards the acquisition I think that makees sense to me I'm just more Curious it's something it's just the transparency into the process of okay we had the inspection we have the results basically it's faith in you as the mayor that you guys would come back as the governing body and there's no revote or anything like that but at the end of the day you have the authority to say whether we should move forth or not depending on the find making if there was an affirmative vote today it sounds like that's the case I'm sorry assuming that passes through who is the person who's going to get all the findings and has the final say to move forward or not so like if you guys are three and three even though so we're we're we're we're splitting here I just want to split this a little bit further if I can right so it lets us because we're dealing in assumptions which I hate doing we're dealing with a process that's been going on for two three years for whatever the involvement and communication look for right so I'm going to qualify this significantly if there's four yeses tonight yeah and it moves forward and all of the required inspections I don't care where they come from all the required inspections I had to get done and there are no issues job can okay so that's kind of halfth one okay then you have this other path where the inspection reveals um what I will call not a red line right um the house has to tce now we need to get special abatement right to um and there there's a bunch of I think that is gray right but there are non red lines that I think would exist and you can hold everybody differently differently yeah then I think what you're getting at is now the red lines right what red lines exist that would change the decision to purchase and what is that threshold right so I'm going to as as egregious that may sounds right we're still joking about the spray pad right which is not really but let's keep that going in the sense of we find radioactive material in the ground yeah right and I know you know wherever you fall on trust and common sense right factors but I think that if an inspection revealed radioactive material in the ground right one that information come back to all of us and two that would I would think and I can't speak for everybody else but that would significantly shift whether or not we're going to invest in radioactive material cleanup yeah so I draw on the starkness of the black and white is something being so egregious that it doesn't go through right it is clean as a whistle right and it goes through and then kind of this middle gray area where the communication will have to take place across the governing body things are not done in as as as folks want to see information is always shared at this level yeah um does that help I I don't necessarily mean what red and what's black and what's gray I'm just saying if you guys as a governing body don't necessarily agree who has the power to override and say I think this is still good we're going to go and I'm assuming is that Andrew no I mean you know uh pursuing to paragraph two on the ordinance the uh burough attorney and business administrator are hereby authorized to take any and all actions necessary to effectuate the purpose of this ordinance and to acquire the subject property through negotiation so I think that's a fact I would say because now we're saying that you not me not notes yes the bored by us so none of you guys can still move forward if let's just say you guys all say you know what it's radioactive to your point that's a big no we can all agree somebody who we didn't elect can move forward with the deal is that true three so you know I assure you and and you know I have spoken with Sal aer's office who has handled similar purchase for the borrow in the past if there were any issues that the governing body need to be made aware of I would immediately share them off a offside of a public meeting you know with the mayor and the council president and uh and chair facilities and then ultimately they would come back to the full governing body most likely an executive session if it impacted the negotiations or the price and at that point the the attorney who handled the closing would join the governing body and and take them through it and the governing body could make a decision based on new information as it becomes available Teresa just so I'm clear though you can bring the finding back to everybody that does that matter does the outside Council still have the power to move forward the I would I would never move forward or nor would the nor would a Bor professional move forward against the wishes of the governing body I'm just trying to understand like what the project process I think it sounds like they could they're not going to they're not the attorney not do unless it's our Direction believing you that there's no spray but now it's like well over here believe me over here believe me getting a little oh I think Teresa mentioned that we won't get the grants if there are sub property that seems to be past the black and white just talking about if there's like a great issue that maybe certain people don't feel comfortable others do now instead of our mayor not at the at the end of the day though it's not going to be Teresa's decision and the burough attorney is that what you're asking yes that's what it sounded like the findings need to come back to this body and right now procedurally it's not set up like that but we can change that right now so I like motion that the findings as they are completed and submitted to the scaff that they be conveyed immediately to the governing body on if there's a procedural matter that needs to if there's some sort of assessment or condition issue that we want to talk about we do it will me findings be public it's all public ultimately ultimately the a motion on the table just I've made a motion Teresa sorry I was trying to answer the question I didn't ask the question made a motion can you and I and I'll elaborate this motion was to pass that uh council womanle is making right now it would not be a Dom Minimus change and it would substantially alter the ordinance and we would have to start from the beginning just to let you know because the governing body would like to review the findings this ordinance number two clearly says that they are hereby authorized to take any all actions necessary to effectuate the purpose of this ordinance but if anything comes back to the contract in a in a negative light that's not a compliance it has to come to Executive session regardless to talk to it always does contract negotiations that's how we do that's how the council works that's how we do every contract the findings are good It Go the findings are bad it comes back ex session see we're going to negotiate price back at a the deal if you have oil leakage the property I I purchased a property that had oil contamination into the water I was not allowed by my attorney to P purchase the property until he was flee it took six months so so this is how as far as protections and off of councilwoman nef's Point number three says that the mayor and or the bur clerk are hereby authorized to sign and witness respectively any contract for sale or other documents necessary to acquire the subject property so if there was a contingency and it would have to be a waiver of that contingency because there would be something that violated that contingency so if there was going to be a waiver the mayor himself would have to sign off on any documents related to any part of the acquisition of priority and it's not myself or the burrow attorney or salaf fer that's going to sign those contract of sale it's the mayor and be and and the clerk will attest to that the actions I'm authorized to take have to do with the title search and the pisy and all of the checklist items that the county wants to move this purchase forward not the actual contract of sale signature and and Teresa if I may um there is a motion right now T sorry can I address that motion absolutely um well first of all we'd have to do a motion in a second and then then there's discussion so there's a a motion by councilwoman Cole and there is there is there a second to councilwoman Cole's motion we could just open it for discussion by way we can't have a discussion though unless second I will second it so you can have a hearing you can have a discussion CC yes I did ask to speak I'm becoming a little bit concerned with the language it's becoming very sub subjective you know who determines what substantial uh there was a quote said before if there were any issues that the governing body needed to be made aware of well who makes that decision who decides what issues we should be made aware of and right now there's a series of Investigations proceeding on the property due diligence contingencies all of that I don't understand why we can't get that information before we actually decide to move ahead with the property because to me that really is going to have an effect on what we're purchasing are we purchasing something that's defective or are we purchasing something in great condition what's it going to cost to repair that uh bulkheading uh what's it going to cost to take the house down what happens if there's aestus in the process of the investigation that could double or triple the cost of taking down that house we keep talking about it but I would like to have more information and I would like the language cleaned up anyone else with a comment as a deliberative body we're being asked to make a decision without any Daya um it's it's confounding truly and an acquisition is a big decision and honestly at Defence for the folks that are here even those that aren't when when when there is a just 90 seconds on this when there is a goal stated in the master plan the goal of the master plan has come from the people and with with facilitation by professionals and that becomes something for the governing body to decide if it's an aworthy Pursuit but once that decision is made that it is worthy you put a you put a a planning mechanism in place to begin to investigate the best way you might go about achieving that goal we skip that we skip the part where you identify all the concerns you look at what the puts and takes on what makes the most sense you do it in a public forum so it reassures those people who may be impacted by it or not or may be benefited by it or not we ski that step for reasons I don't understand but we skipped it it's not the first time I've seen Fair Haven do this and we went straight to purchase so now we we have a room full of really smart devoted caring people and that includes the people on this guas too we're all in this together and we all care about the same thing but we're tying ourselves and Knots around an acquisition because we haven't done the work that leads to this point I never want to be in this position again um I don't think it's I don't think it's fair to this body and we our purpose is to deliberate f facts investigate open questions conduct assessments when we have anyone else a comment oh oh you're saying yeah here no I'm fine mayor that's fine Rodriguez yeah I was just going to say can we call a vote on this uh proposed amendment no one else you there was a motion to amend motion to amend yeah I just wanted to call pleas have a roll wait waitting I made a motion to amend the ordinance to provide a step where the findings from the assessments which are currently underway will come back to this body not just this St but back to this body the full report yeah report for sure I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm going to yield the attorney here but I don't you can amend an ordinance by a motion correct Andrew correct but and the ordinance would have to be recraft and then there would be a first and a second reading as well an introduction and the readings that'll be it Allison may I please have a roll call on the motion me too on the motion yes on the motion right then we need to know who's for you talking about the motion to amend the ordinance yes we should call motion to change the language right which would then trigger starting all over again the reintroduction we have to vote on yes AB we're all clear I what we're voting on okay so then um oh you want to call a motion can we have a roll call on the motion please Council M's call yes yes C yes bar no NE no rrig no no now on uh do you have more tow is there any language in place that would protect you guys from losing money whatever positive put money down Teresa I don't know what the language regarding the deposit probably not I didn't I didn't hear the I didn't hear the question I'm sorry so there has been nothing done financially nothing's been done financially no once it is once you do put a deposit at some point if we Pro if if it's if it C is tonight it's just play the scenario and you guys put whatever percentage down and something's identified is there's something that would get the town back their money for uh I don't have any anything on the I don't have anything on the checklist from the county uh requiring uh the deposit um and you know since the the funds are the only funds the burrow will have to front is the burrow funding in 335 625 the County's money is available at closing provided everything's in order and Green Acres money um is either available at closing or shortly thereafter is there a down payment that we don't get back I'm guessing no there's no down payment I think until the closing corre Teresa because the Count's fronting that money right it's not I wouldn't even call it a down payment I would just call it you know as part of the whole closing package the money will be transfer then at the time of closing Teresa yes sir that makesense thank you hi Heather came Heather came in my question is simple I never come to these me which is not a good thing um but I'm here because of passion about our neighborhood I just don't understand how you can look at everybody out here knowing that we all disagree with us it's not that we disagree we don't understand what you're trying to do yet we still have no answers and you want us to vote but you can all sit up there some of you and vote on this to move forward why are we rushing like what is the answer to why we are being killed with a gun to our heads till like do this right now like what is that answer so so because I didn't even know about this at all until the last Mee and now I'm sitting here and I'm just getting so annoyed because we're going in circles we have no answers and everybody is just so quick to say let's move forward like that's not how you do things like you want the community to want this and you want the community to feel comfortable but none of us feel comfortable it feels like we're just being pushed into doing something that nobody even wants but a couple people so why are we why do we have to decide tonight I I just want to make two things clear there for one I know people have thrown out the whole this has been going on for two years from my understanding this been discussed since 2016 and not necessarily always in the public but it's been discussed you know Chris is that an accurate number it um the 2016 reference goes back to the master plan where thou hundreds of households responded um around town not just the immediate Community um but the entire town and then John Peters uh put this out there in a meeting where U former council president uh Sorenson who I think is uh president of the meeting she she can attest he brought this up in 2018 um which had serious discussion at the time but the price was not right it was somewhere in the 3 million range um which just wasn't um you know something that we were willing to to pay for uh as a as a town so and that was in a public meeting I I I don't know the exact date of that meeting the the second comment that that I would rebot is saying that just a few people want it and listen I understand you know the reason you're so passionate is because this is your neighborhood as part of the community but I also want to point out that we do also represent 6,000 residents in Fair Haven I've had this discussion with a lot of res and I'm acknowledging the pain points that you're talking about um but to just say that a few people want this when when I've discussed this park the potential park with other people other residents of fair everyone's you know Head Over Heels excited so the the the idea that um it's just a few people up here that uh that that are in favor of it is not that's not accurate but so the speed limit that you put out I guess two weeks ago so for instance I live on Fair Waters the back of my house is on Ron I've called the police multiple times because I can't get out of Rong because there's a car parked on Fair um Fair Haven Road and I literally cannot turn because there's the um lawn guys people are parked whatever so you put that uh speed limit thing out this week do we have any anything on that vote on something you put that out last week or two weeks ago well we should have a little data we're gonna vote on something how are we voting on something that we don't have the information so that's my only question like why do we have to vote on this that's my only answer I want it's like why we have to vote on this thank you Steve C 50 Fairway so just sitting here listening to you talk about the fact that these conversations about the property have taken place for the last six years actually don't make anybody feel any better because you've had six years of contemplating talking planning imagining what this property is going to be and there still you've had more time to do the required studies for traffic and safety and health and Walker that that's not quite true sir uh you know we're not we're not going to put a ton of money into planning for a property that we don't have any idea whether we have the ability to acquire at the end of the day it's it's it's just you know we have a lot of things that we're putting our time and energy to in the burough of fa Haven and to to refocus on a purpose when we don't know we're going to actually get to a destination quite truthfully we're not doing uh you know what we should be doing for the people that elected us that you know I think that that's all we're going to do for six years to just focus on their own properties and as well I know I didn't I for even ining you said that because you did not um I I think what I'm saying is like this is this small town but it's got a lot of things going on all at once and although we've been discussing it for six years we really didn't totally own in on it until we knew that this was a possibility that we could actually ascertain and that's that's really come into f Focus now in the last year and at one point we walked away away from it it didn't you know it wasn't working for us and few things came together and and now obviously it's on our plate and and we're moving forward because we think it's the best thing to do for the [Music] bur I ask what's that what were the reasons why you walk some of it was Financial uh you know the unwillingness of the homeowner to negotiate in any way uh they weren't interested in doing it some of the demands that they were making to us as well in that negotiation the grant money changed too so Mama County up the 75% coverage by point5 so the cost was going to be three times more to the burrow and then they choose a program that changed the entire discussion sorry go ahead I'm sorry you're talking about ad hoc planning that just makes no sense and to your point you're saying we can't plan on anything until we acquire it we have a master plan we've identified objectiv that's what a planning process is for that's what urban planning is for is to identify then what perhaps within your town that you have some criteria as opportunities present themselves do they measure against information why wouldn't we spend money to find out professional we're going no I'm saying ahead of time why wouldn't we be investing in our plan of development of our town this this this idea that we're going to need to buy a piece and before we can make a plan because we're not going to spend any money to make a plan is not sure so so you want us to you want us to spend the money through planning to identify a different piece of property that may never become available to us think that if you have an objective to make Waterfront available right to the town I think that you need to to have criteria that those properties would address or that would make them appropriate for consideration Beyond price the ability to finance the price and the ability of the property I can have a coupon for a size two dress if I don't wear one it doesn't if I'm a size six the C on a ship so it just I I don't understand this idea that we have this grant that we have this money that this is such a good value because it's $336,000 I'm saying if this has been the the long range plan I you can identify where there's Waterfront access in our town I think that involving professional planners and saying some of these have no hope some of these if the properties become available I you know I mean some of them you know you don't have you don't have a prayer because the private Market will annihilate that um I I don't think that this is beyond the pale I don't I I don't think that you know saying why would we have done planning you do planning so that your town grows in the image of what you've asked people are they interested in and what this master plan is that in fact this this is the definition of Po planning you're talking about two different things I'm I'm talking hang on hang on I gave you the respect to talk can I please have a minute please yes right so when you look at the 2016 master plan and what it calls out right it calls out multiple different components right and that is the town's guide of how we are to make decisions so what addition planning beyond the master plan right are you discussing here right should have been invested yes that's what that I'm specifically looking because what I'm trying to understand from from your perspective is where's the lung right in the sense of uh the micro projects we just did right and the 42 locations across town that we're going to improve sidewalks we're going to improve curbing we're going to improve Street was there a large plan that looked at every piece of curbing sidewalk and Street and determined conditions and then took those conditions and compared it to resident anecdotes to really hone in on those 42 areas no but I would hope was least looked at storm water and drainage I now let's talk about what what pertains to what projects exactly right so so the question becomes to to to what extent right is of planning right and what is the balance of investment and funds that you pay with the decision that you made and if if the park right the proposed Park which we haven't even acquired yet right um or haven't even agreed to acquire yet but what if it's aligned with the overall master plan what followed a process came through Community engagement where is the master plan lacking and then how does that so the master plan itself lacked and planning support I want to hear what she I just want to hear support for the master plan I mean I don't know no I'm kind of stupid the support for the master plan and and just a second though before we lose the import of what's happening I also I also let Steve finish in the middle of all right what Ken was saying is very important I support it um I guess the only point that I would make would be if I were to ask each of you on the council what is your opinion currently of the traffic paring situation on that part of fairhead Road what would your honest assessment be I think it needs to be drastically improved thank youal thank you and it's exacerbated by the fishing and CB that take place at the dock thank you and potentially an expansion of public use at the end of fa so we'll have to that's not why parking is an issue today though asking why parking is an issue today I said potential right and and I mean I don't see any any possibility the fact it's better between now and the time that that whatever happens at that part of the street ends up happening so so let me just finish my question is how much more traffic do you think could potentially occur and where you going to put it specifically where You' want to put it right so uh to answer your question uh I actually think I'm hopeful that the traffic rolls back a little bit based on some of the um some of the restrictions and prohibitions that we're putting in place that's that's the hope now I'm saying the word hope because you know Action Reaction you don't know what that reaction is going to be but um as we discussed at the last meeting and I believe it'll be on on the next agenda we're looking to set actual times for craving officials we're we're looking to say right now the number I have I'm not saying that that's where we're going to come back with next meeting but it's looking like 8:00 a.m. to 9: P so we we see a lot of people that are uh coming to crab and they're staying outside of those timelines whether it be in the morning or late at night um in addition to that as you know we've gotten rid of the fortify that's not coming back it's not coming back next summer so uh we think that'll have a positive effect on what's going on we're looking to prohibit open Flames um alcoholic beverages tents mattresses coolers larger than a 10 cord capacity smoking and then crabing and fishing during special events weddings which isn't what we're talking about here um we're also looking to restrict on top of the no crabbing and fishing outside of the hours 8 a to 900 p.m. we're also trying to restrict coolers under 10 Court capacity to one per person um in addition to that the chief and I have had discussions on parking uh we're trying to needle down to to get to the right spot um you know he's been looking at the traffic study the uh we're talking about our play Street it's a three-way stop sign Chief oh yeah three-way stop sign um the area past fairwaters Lane down to the bottom of the dock is is likely to be made no parking on both sides of that little Inlet area um and then the rest of Fair Haven Road to Clay Street on both sides with the exception of where there's no parking signs are ready would turn into a 2hour parking Zone um between those same hours 8:00 am to 9:00 P p.m as well as on Fair Waters l so those are the things we're discussing they're not set but to answer your question that's we're trying to have a positive impact on that situation based on some of the conditions we're set you haven't mentioned that the 2hour parking would extend to fairwaters Lane as well yes during during the hours of 8: a.m. to 9:00 p.m. yeah I I also want to add in one part that's probably the most well two more things um we're talking about an increased monitoring of the garbage on the dock which I think we heard from everyone that that was a concern as far as the smell and just the way that people were treating it um but but the most important and the chuth proved me saying this that there will be active enforcement at the dock from Spring to Fall 2024 and moving forward um and also if anyone's been down there you just see for now not necessarily it's going to be permanent but there's currently a camera monitoring the doc 247 and those are all positive moving but the overwhelming feeling still is that the governing body is moving forward and and even a little bit blindly in a direction of something they believe some people want right based on study that took place six or seven years ago however the implementation is very likely to exponentially negatively impact the people in this neighborhood much more than it would benefit the handful of people that would walk their dogs hand every day so that's that's going to be the legacy of of your govern body because like those decisions I understand are going to be made probably after your gone sure but you got the B on understood hopefully it's part of my legacy I understand what you're saying but I just I want to go if may or may I just address there was um a very important you know just to frame I think everyone in this room means well um I also believe that at any point after master plan was written in 2016 which was just a reexamination and opening up public access to the Waterfront was a goal we could have initially we could have immediately initiated the planning investigation to look at what what how we would go about achieving that goal there's potentially seven different locations for public access to the river all of which TI with a storm water outfall so there's a a technical infrastructure component to explore with all that something we haven't even talked about here but that didn't happen it can happen at any time and even now it's not too late to do that when that report was written in 2016 or adopted in 2016 I'm not even sure 21 faan Road was in play could have been in the back of somebody's mind maybe not we don't know and it doesn't matter the question of public access to the water is is a good one we can probably all agree even in this room if there was some guard rails around this idea of what a little passive Park would be like if the in Ro you know you might really like that idea if if we had given it shape and form and guard rails through that planning process and we would all be in this room together maybe agreeing to Something Beautiful that we can anticipate together with some enthusiasm um like showing up at an interview prepared yeah we're not prepared in the interview yeah so I don't want to let this moment go by without us as a governing body recognizing that there was a way to do this um we chose not to I'm not you know I I can't say I didn't choose not to that's what I would have wanted to do um and I really think it's money well spent planning doesn't cost a lot of money in comparison to what we're doing right now it's it's seed money and it also sets up the process for decision making and it includes the community I hope that's the way we do it and now sure came my question is actually for the is this the first time we're doing a study of the traffic because we don't have any research on it it seems like it's for 10 years and I think I've complained a lot of time but went up the day after your last meeting came down few days ago but before that we haven't even looked at like nobody has ever thought that fair he Road has too much we' never thought that like kids might get hit because there's so many cars that like these little kids on their bikes with these big huge like yons and explorers and are parks in the thing and then you got the LA guys and these four little kids are coming around the corner I've almost hit a a couple times because you cannot see them like you cannot see them and I think unfortunately it's going to take someone getting hit for the towns are realized that it's a problem so I don't understand how we've never even addressed that and we're moving forward with making this sit on the park and it's not even the park I actually think the park could probably be lovely but I think it's going to be lovely yeah I'm sure it will be but we've got to address the first problem and that's the traffic that otherwise we wouldn't be here for seven hours discussing this just on your point I want to address because I said it last meeting I don't anticipate moving fast here I want to make sure you understand that there there's uh and I've had a discussion with councilman Nicole as well about the planning process um after we we're talking about acquiring the property I don't think we're opening a park there you know two months fromo that's that's not something we're looking to you're like easing us into it and then you're going to go you know like that's how it no I think come on I think I think we're going to approach it uh quite truthfully this governing body a fair um assessment of how we're going to handle it is the police department of DPW we sat here at every single meeting we include the public we told them every little be probably too much detail I think it was a turn point was like true PowerPoints it's a little much but but it it was done the right way what it really didn't have any studies of the cars on the street like that's the most important thing that we should all be talking about that's G to be part of that we don't have a study over the last 10 years that's GNA be part of that process it is as as we determine what that what that Park's going to be um what we're going to put down there how we're going to handle the traffic at that point right now we're putting in these these parking things in place now based on what we have now the idea is to see if we could have positive intervention in that area based on these prohibitions restrictions and parking parking changes right now that's the idea that doesn't mean that that's we're done with what that Park's going to be and that's just're making decision based on something we so if I can just interject for one second um as someone that sat as the vice chair of the plan board um through the decision to let the dunk donuts come in uh this application if it was a you did go under a contract and went through the process and did in fact acquire the property any sort of planning we have to go before the planning board we have to be approved by our planning board we have a planning board attorney and that would go through I'm sure dozen hours of hearings about what the community wants and what they're looking to do and traffic would obviously be one of the components that the planning board would have to consider when any sort of decision made what to put in this uh property at 21 there will it's it's not like the mayor said it's not gonna be overnight no I got everything you're saying my only thing is I just find it crazy that we're making a decision on something that we've never done a traffic study and it's one of the busiest streets in bar I mean quite honestly you know in a little neighborhood so I mean I can talk to on face obviously everybody has their opinions but I just wanted on record that we didn't really do a traffic stud 34 Clay Street I want to address what you're saying it lives on Clay Street and the corner Clay Street and live and um long and when they were buying the property at the end of the DAT the council sat down and we had had a conversation I don't know you before you guys may moved in that was not a fourway stop and there were multiple accidents multiple multiple things that happened there and I had two if you know my kids I had a lot of little kids running around that neighborhood and I came to the council and I said when you guys are going to buy that piece of property please for the love of God put in this great Stu please look at the traffic they bought the property and they did look at the traffic and they put it in the fourway stop which is now the SW in fourway stop because I worked for 10 years toway stop but at the end of the day this governing body is going to do what's good for all of a they're not going to put something in that's going to cause your children to get by a car they're going to do a study they're going to make sure that everything's okay if they choose to move forward with the park so that's something that I want to make sure that you're well aware of they're not going to just willy-nilly do something I've been on that side and I appreciate everything believe me I've been there done that and I appreciate all that you guys are doing and this is not easy Normy is the busiest small Street in Fair Haven and I believe on that it is the busy small small Street in fairen Street and it is it is and it's a different street and it's busier than fairen Road believe it or not I've got your is extraordinarily busy she busy believe it or not it is and so it it it it they will put in a freeway stock if we if we ask them to and I think that that is a great addition to what's gonna happen why haven't we done that yet I mean the traffic trust me it took me 10 years I was told I had to have a de a DE to have St don't look at me way previous but it wasn't that it was count T question um and I can't speak for chief I don't know if people asked in but the first I heard for request from a three-way stop sign at CL was was two was two weeks ago or one three weeks ago whenever our last meeting was and and you know a lot of the time sometimes it's the information we we Garner from the public uh I think Allison and Chris was probably and Betsy might have been on there I mean I I used to come as a resident um there's a stop sign on Spruce Drive that it was amazing to me that there was no stop sign there and I came to the council I showed on my iPad we got to fix this my kids are on their bikes they're riding their bikes this a dangerous situation and and the chief had a stop sign up there like two months later it got done so sometimes it's just it's it's feedback from our residents letting us know hey we sense a safety issue here this is how it could be improved so I'm I'm out here saying this to everyone here and I think I sent an email to a lot of your community making sure that you understand that it might not seem like it but I hear you again I know how sensitive it is it's your home it's your neighborhood and we're not going to do this in a in a way that's going to uh further exacerbate that we're not we're going to do it the right way so if you have additional recommendations for your community whether it be on the do I mean we without getting into too much information we tried to be even more restrictive on the dock but NJ DP unfortunately regulates the the crown um so so that that was something that was you know disappointing to us so so but if you have if you have other ideas we want to hear them don't keep them to yourselves email me tomorrow if you don't want to if you don't trust me email someone else whatever it is uh if you have an idea let us know because we want to incorporate in it incorporate it into what we're doing on your street and the surrounding communities to ensure that you don't have a problem when eventually this Park becomes an actual Park and 100% we you what what a mess that would be if that was my legacy that that it was a disaster down there and there were parties and garbage and traffic issues and uh you know all this spray park and all these things that you're talking about I that would be devastating to me that is not what I want as as your mayor I'm telling you right now that this I understand what you're saying I'm trying to see the whole field the whole playing field burough Fair Haven I think this is a good purchase for our town I hear you I hear what you're saying with a planning perspective we're going to plan for this part and we're going to do it the right way and there seems to be a uh there there seems to be a deviation between whether that should be done before the acquisition I'm not saying you're wrong or do it after the acquisition there is a grant involved that's substantial that does have us on a timeline and maybe that's driving some of the things we're doing here um but that's a reality so uh with with that being said I I mean I appreciate everyone's feedback here you got someone else so yeah to your point well I wanted to get back to the crabbing timing but the because now I guess it's a d so I was going to ask I thought it was supposed to be Dusk to Dawn or dawn to dusk this is differing going off so we're restricted because of the we can discuss that during the yeah brought it's it's okay but regardless of buying purchasing the park there was a lot of issues with parking speed Etc on that road and prior to even purchasing the park or regardless of purchasing that Park could something be done and I will tell you putting in the four-way stop under Norm was a godsent for people who lived in that area the Normy and Clay so putting a stop putting a stop sign at the top of play Street into Fair hting though would be lovely as well but making that a three-way stop regardless of whether you purchase the park or not as well as addressing the speed and the parking on that road would would also help that that neighborhood tremendously I I think the stop in some ways addresses the on own it does it will absolutely because I had people dragging uh boats and I swear to God they were going 50 miles an hour and then there were neighbors that were then CL going 50 miles an hour that's the whole other thing but yeah our Our intention is e even if we were not to acquire this park if the vote was no Our intention is still to follow through on all of these items yes sir um I just I just want to add to all of this that uh you know right now we're we're discussing this whole matter and I'd like to ask for from you guys to really think about um that this started s years ago and that things have changed dramatically in the P years years we went through uh a new election Co and now another new election and a lot of things have happened a lot of changes have occurred and I believe that at this point in time I'm I'm asking you to consider that when you vote just on a matter of principle that there are a lot of things that have occurred so relying on the information and the process from back in 2016 uh relying on the fact that it's nothing the master plan or or saying that it is part of it there should have been something the master plan in order to be able to evaluate or or other procedures before we purchase I'm just saying that simply on the fact that the changes that have occurred require us to perhaps delay and look at what is happening on 7 hiber before we commit to any kind of purchase at any kind of price that's all thank you thank you sir anyone else in the public with a comment Allison anyone want no I motion to close moose second all in favor I anyone opposed I have a motion to approve motion second Alison may I please have a roll call counc m Call no h yes h no Rob yes n yes Rodriguez yes thank you moving along presentation cdbg Grant by Centennial Hall plans Matt Cronin architect Rea no Matt should be here he's here hold on Matt everyone Matt's here um [Music] every can we put the plans up is everyone familiar with halls or would you like to go through the photos [Music] we'll could you go to yeah please there thank you all right so we as I would that to entl you're being recorded I was asked to come up with three uh several different uh concepts for the repair of the ramps and the upgrading of the uh Ada access to the building to be done in conjunction with a uh Community Development PR BR um for Bicentennial Hall so plan a we have uh on the lower part there is uh an existing bathroom and then we're adding a a fully accessible um handicap accessible bathroom at the top taking out the uh the coat closet and then the ramp and the patio the ramp and the land things would as you see the uh the wood KN wall excuse me the wood KN walls there we would be removing them and uh refinishing the surface and adding uh metal railing similar to the front porch um expanding the One landing at the rear of the building and creating a more accessible and less obvious uh way to get into the building um and then there would also be part of the site work would be uh an extension of a path and A Accessible parallel parking space across the street um hey on that on this picture here the middle one there's the window and then drawing the window that's just a a drafting eror okay got it so the window the window stay we don't Mo correct yeah it it shows up on on the elevation yeah no wor um then uh the next please so Matt maybe to Ju Just to review because we could go back a little bit if some of us were here some of us weren't um the Ada Grant was approved and um Matt was hired to prepare the schematics and move ahead with construction drawings after this was sent to the historic preservation commission so historic preservation commission has been interacting with Matt on um narrowing down an approach and uh Matt prepared two schemes which you'll go through it sounds like and they settled on a hybrid which everyone saw in a memo everyone have a chance to read it but you're GNA take us through all three of them great the first two plans plans A and B are the plans that I uh presented to the uh HPC earlier this month um and you see in any elevations one is you do see the window in the Disney bathroom remains and then essentially we're removing that wood knee wall that was built in the late 7s and that is starting to fail um so the rather than trying to repair it we can take it out it's about 8 inches thick that gives us the width to get the proper width between the railings and then we would put up a uh install metal railing again similar to the front porch and the open railing would also assist in the drainage from the from the ramp and some of the landings excuse me at the HPC meeting some of the people in the audience had photographs of the water pooling on the ramp which is except mostly because of the walls but we would also have a a chance to repitch the the uh slab a little bit away from the uh away from the building this plan calls for a a 4 foot extension of the landing to the West the upper Landing to the west and relocation of the door on the side of the building uh the HPC was fun with that change as far as the Aesthetics um and they were they they they reviewed it and they had no problem with that um that's the highlights of this plan could you go to uh two or B2 B B1 I guess yeah the next one um this is uh the ramp essentially the the same uh changes to the to the ramp railings and all the upper Landing does not get uh uh enlarged the co- closet stays and then we adapt the existing bathroom to become Ada accessible that uh uh obscures the side window from the body of the church and that was an element that the the HPC was not terribly thrilled with um the other comment was with with plan a was losing the code closet which they kind of liked in this plan B so then we came up with plan C which was uh reviewed by the HBC via email I believe all you have it and then Alison could you the next one please one more one more one C I think it's another PDF y mat while she's looking that the parking spots in the street that's the plan there is no park there is no plan to add parking to the site so there there's parking on the opposite side of Cedar so they would uh the the town would um uh uh call out a a an accessible space uh close to the close to the crosswalk then they would the people who needed it would cross the crosswalk and come the the pass to the ramp this so this is plan C which is uh the ramp improvements are similar to a the interior improvements are also similar we add a fully compliant uh Ada restroom to the rear remove the code closet and then take out the existing bathroom and add a CO closet in the front also clearing the the uh side window the front window is also in there what's advantageous about removing a b so like can um there was some discussion of that and it was the the idea of having some storage having some coat storage uh I suspect we might be able to find other places to throw the coats um but the existing bathroom as it stands and the new accessible bathroom would both be if you if you went with plan A would both be um a unisex bathroom single use and so they would uh all the bathrooms would be unex bathroom SLE years does the square footage necessitate two bathrooms what did the HPC have to say about that um it's two bathrooms get to about 50 people and if you're going by the pluming code what one bathroom gave 25ish I had conversations anecdotally with folks about one bathroom versus two and most folks said one bathroom is sufficient that having the space to move all the chairs out of the way in case there was something happening in that space that involved reception type we have people circulating um would have a benefit but it would just be one handicapped bathroom then it would be one bathroom I think the concern then is if a handicapp person needs to use a bathroom someone's in the bathroom they can't use it well for a few minutes I also what's and we also have that that annual thing there right where there's more than 25 people in the building right that that events become nice and big right love where you live uh I'm just like know that in the grand scheme of things this building's been a one B building for I don't know now long so we are grandfathered in regardless to what the plumbing code says right that as guge when we were talking about is it more expensive to demo and remove a bathroom than what's more expensive I'm not being funny B would be more we we can't use that bathroom as is right so we would have to adapt that bathroom so there is an an economic sense or cost Effectiveness to keeping the front bathroom and just adding the accessible bathroom in the rear again using some of the feedback from the HPC about not blocking the window which makes sense yeah that's their it's their job to to terare and look after the architectural elements those windows are stain glass right they are yeah but there's two there's a stain GL when on the current there is so that would be in the co Closet in PL right okay we apply for the gr through the count one or two bathrooms just 88 compliance it was the number of bathrooms was ambiguous it was provided an ADA combined bathroom so we are providing an one bathroom Ian have a little have a little hesitation with limiting the number of people that can use it how do you limit the number of people to use it even though it's grandp is plumbing code dictates how many people can be in the facility so doesn't mean you kick out 25 people since you're only have one bathroom great I I I understand that um you know but going back to the methodology with how we did the community center the DPW right we we took in the the factors around it Matt where would you put a Co closet or where could you put a CO closet if you had the two bathrooms um couple of thoughts one would be in that uh the landing above the basement stairs there to the to the right in the other way uh sort of add a closet in front of that um other ideas just did did did the DJ uh have any value insight as far as you know the different people that are using the facility and how often they use the obviously we're talking about a CO closet about coats half the year right we're only talking about six months due to weather what other storage needs I think so are the chairs when they're not being used they going in that closet right now it's just a room there's no closet right now it's just a Nook in the back where that bathroom is and things not being used I don't see a reason things do get put there I that is used May there is a closet in that building uh for as long as I've been here we've never used the closet generally speaking when I I discuss this with both rich gella and uh DJ you know when people come to meetings you know just like here at Burrow Hall people tend to put their coat in the back of their chair they don't you know look for a coat Closet in in something like that and based on the number of people who use that facility it's really up to the governing body but if you really want to get full usage out of it to rip out a perfectly good bathroom um to only end up with one bathroom you know was really going to limit you know access to a bathroom if you want to have you know any type of decent meeting space there and you know it's not going to cost you anything to keep the current bathroom I mean it's it's it's fully serviceable at this juncture um you could look for I mean other Alternatives as far as that goes but we I I I assure you that closet that's there currently hasn't been used in in as long as I've been here since we redid it which is probably about eight years ago we're gonna we're gonna do more to this building right yes okay so so can I can I can I just maybe say maybe we do the work with the two bathrooms and then if we find that we have a storage issue we could pivot at that point the next time we do work or or because then you're just going to have pretty much demolition of that area and redoing the flooring and walls right you know go in and get out once you know and then maintenance but your point is valid I mean I I do see some advantage to keeping what's already there it has utility the bathroom that's currently in place it and obviously um but it's not like we're doing the DPW like all at once so so this is a phase one so if we do the phase one and then we we find hey there's a need for storage and not a need need for as many restrooms we could then pivot and turn that second restro back into why don't we say that storage will be part of the scope of improvements that are are developed once we update that punch list and go can you talk a little bit about the punch list I actually one more question what what if um there's a basement that's building as well I understand that what there's grant money involved though here right correct okay for this so does that grant money work for the demolition if that would to be turned into a CO Claus or no I don't believe that was part of the original submission mayor um certainly the ADA Bathroom and the the ramp was if you recall the original ordinance had a larger scope of work some that was grandf funded and some that was not and ultimately the governing body decided to just do work that be covered under the grant which would be the ADA Bathroom and the ramp yeah so so the grant covers the 88 but there's a punch list item there's L events get done and there's additional fund already authorized on previous Bond ordinance to do that work any amount of about 300 I forget the number three and change so there there be no Financial there be no Financial benefit though to doing it now that's what I'm saying okay so I'd say do keep the existing bathroom at the Ada and then make sure storage is factored in so ask ask DJ to get feedback from some of the groups that go in there was you know did you use both bathrooms did you need to use the coats you know did you wish you had a a closet you put the pipe of Plumbing in and not make it a bathroom so well we have to make an Ada bathro yeah it's the Ada one we're doing matter it's the other one that's already existing and there's just two things I want to bring up right the we we have an opportunity to get 5 Centennial Hall up to a maintainable status right so it needs to be painted there's uh something with the gutters right there's other pieces that that exactly right so all of these pieces should come back together this is Dre's opinion right welcome feedback so that the building then can be maintained so that something doesn't then become Beyond repair and we end up in the PB CC DPW scenario so I like that we have I don't say we use all 325,000 extra that we have beond the grant however I think they're is the punchless item the Landscaping be screw stuff definitely need to be painted I think there's some some items there and adding the storage make sense the one thing on the storage we just want to make sure it's start storage because we how do we figure out what groups allowed to store we came out and told groups that they're not allowed to do storage now with the new building so I just want to make sure we maintain consistency yeah but if we change our storage policy great we have to offer it for everybody yeah no you're right just want to make sure I ask you a question I was there for a meeting last week and there's little to know out there lighting would that fall under Ada we could probably we could easily light the ramp and then we could look at the idea of uh lighting um enhancing the accessibility for people with vision problems and that might is one little tiny light bulb over the entrance FY that light bulb was like 21 well exactly yeah I mean it's it's really dark and someone's going to trip on those bricks yes if we could do something with lighting that would be that sounds like an 88 Improvement yes well lied Vision low tucked in sensitive to the residen in the area we can follow the same guidelines we did with the community center we we did a a lighting analysis we looked at the lumens we had a a map that showed how many feet the light goes out right take all that into consideration when we put it together and I'm I'm wondering if HPC wants to see that maybe it's a public safety thing and it has to happen but the way in which it's done we might want to have their input yeah I think they should for remain a part should be a stakeholder yeah it needs to be fixed but the HBC should be considered a stakeholder agreed and be part of the process okay yeah good any anything else that we can what we just talked about sent to you so you have some notes to like what's the next step is basically what I'm getting at well I think I think the next step is we have to give Matt a guidance in what plan we' like to develop um I know Matt was copied as was the facilities committee on uh a recent exchange where we talked about leaving the second bathroom which was essentially plan A and I think our padog I'm not our pav I'm not going to put words in his mouth but U Matt can attest to the fact that they were definitely open-minded to that concept that they understood that it you know it you know it would be fine to leave that second bathroom in place if after the governing body ultimately decided that they wanted to do but we we've got to move forward with this grant we're you know we're behind from a Time perspective we give the monthly updates that Allison's been taking care of um to cdbg and basically they just been you know very simple of what we're doing but they know we've met with the historic preservation commission they know Matt's presented the plan so I think at this juncture between Matt and ridge they have to move forward to get something on paper that we can actually uh ultimately put out to bid which P by the way we've got two bathrooms the ramp with the railing minus the knee wall there's going to be some lowlevel light which will coordinate with HC and you'll probably Tracy I think you're going to need some lighting you know up that ramp that's going to come from the street also if you think about it from the handicapped parking space probably some lowlevel lighting from the from the sidewalk to the ramp so we just coordinate with that very sensitive to the historic commission but also to the residence near but we can agree if we agree then Matt can develop and I would just like to like put it on paper right so like what we just said right because I don't want to lose punch list out of the Landscaping the painting right you know and there's more right but the point is I want to make sure Matt right so right now this would be considered design correct correct you're going to shift into schematic I'm assuming next it's really the schematic design I mean the ne would be a CDS yeah and then construction yeah I mean it's um the that's fair it's okay I just think the the guidance from what we talked about should should be put on paper right see it very very clear this way you have clear guid guidelines guard rails and then you can go that and continue to provide periodic updates and we'll figure out what that looks like and then uh the you might be able to help with this then I go back to the HPC and then come back here you know well I don't think you need to do that and Teresa may I CH in do you mind I think we can write this and send it to the Geor ration commission and convey a letter a memorandum from the governing body that should be adequate yes my only point was that we do need approval from the cdbg group before we go out to bitmat so they'll want to see the actual you know construction documents before we actually put them out to bed I would like to do a p it's just right but all the other like it's not going to be in this oh yeah that's that's what we got the ramp and yes my friend check we're good got it that's that's that's yes you're good okay that's that's on us to work out to make sure the other enhancements are done okay check got it now are you gonna you're not going to include them in his fit or anything like that that's a totally different animal or yes that's B to I believe we have to keep these separate Teresa what we do with the cdbg money as a set of drawings can that be a sheet within a larger set of you know ultimately yes I believe I'll double check Tracy but if you recall when we did this originally with cdbg we did have a scope of work that was covered by the grant a scope of work that was not covered by the grant they didn't have a problem with that conceptually as long as because because the grant is absolutely specific to Ada improvements and Ada improvements only because that's the only thing we qualify for Community Development block grants in Fair or approval included right all the other stuff that we're talking about why would we well we could Pace ourselves to catch up to if we cut Matt loose let him do his thing and then get our the rest of our stuff in order quick which is we can do that yeah we can do that we have in house expertise that could be drawing stuff like that right so scope it okay awesome let's we get you great work and thank you to the historic thank you team over there all right uh Workshop session good night 2023 best practices inventory any anyone have anything before I ask for a motion no do I have a motion to accept as presented motion to accept second all in favor I anyone opposed thank you we have a tree removal appeal for 251 camage Avenue are those residents uh you guys all received a letter from uh from our attorney um which one you were the oak or the the pin o in the front um I know you guys have spoke with the L here about the traffic issues on the street there they'll take care of my folks my father has Alzheimer's disease my mother has severe physical disabilities uh we trimmed the tree uh we took the sweet gum down in the backyard um with the hopes of saving we love the trees my parents have owned the house since 1983 um so we're willing to try and wait till next year and see if the trimming improves the acorn issue but it's become a real safety issue my father had a pretty bad fall had to go to the hospital we've had a couple of guests coming to the house Falls the acorns are so out of control that we can't keep up with it I mean I've had to had my landscape come three times a week my pictures we had we had four inches at one point of a um it cracked the Skylight in the backyard um in the back of the house and so basically we just we want to try and reserve the right we'll give it a chance next fall and see if the trimming that we just did works but if it doesn't I mean the tree is not important more important than their safety so we want to you reserve the right ability so you didn't do the trimming when we did the trimming already you already did and then you want to see how it I want to see how it comes for next fall and Bill Brooks and I spoke about it as well he was in agreement with me um it may improve the acorn issue um it may not so we're just going to have to wait and see what happens next B and the acorn issue is worse I'm not asking if you're an expert on this just because it got bigger yeah it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and like I said the trees you know pushing probably 70 80 years old and U you know it's it's just dropping so much much debris that it's not manageable for absolutely bill um you know I realize oak trees they do have cycles and sometimes you get a lot of acorns like a lot true um and what what is the normal rhythms of well it's been progressively getting oh um we're probably in the second year of up site we had a lot of acorns last year the year before not so many this year again a lot of that is also relative to your weather had a lot of drought last year stressed them out real good had a lot more rain this year so I think what we're seeing as results of last year's drought two years down the road okay um that's their way of uh ensuring their survival one of the things that I did look into is seeing if it was possible to inoculate an oak tree so it would not bear fruit much the same as you can do with some fruit bearing trees it is not I call Bartlett I called pen State called some of the guys in my industry that I work with and we all had the same answer no they tell you how to do it everybody knows the little chains the Cadence that form on an oak in the spring to clog everybody's gutters that have you got to pick them off by hand that be released a one- day operation with a very big bucket truck and a bill of about $4,000 that's not feasible it just it's not feasible but this is a safety issue now the municipality has some history um with something akin to this church of nativity they were gum trees and everybody knows the lovely little sticky balls and they had slip and Falls by parishioners with I know one one wrist for sure and one shoulder for sure I believe is more and we did allow the church to remove the ones that were near the traffic areas both pedan vehicular um but they did do a very extensive replanting so to back to 251 Cambridge um thank you very much Bill anything else you need to add um I think what he is proposing is a worthy Endeavor and I think it's over above you know but we're talking about as he said we're talking about safety my gut feeling is next year we're going to find out we have the same sort of problem just not as bad because we're going to have the acorns and it's like walking on marbles want to keep the tree like if if it works out we'd love the tree you do want to yeah we're doing everything we can to try and save it but again what's Paramount is my parents safety over one that's not why I was asking what I was saying is if if if if you really don't want to keep the tree and it's a safety issue I'd rather get the new trees in the ground faster than wait you get at least another year of growth but if you want to keep the tree I'm in support of that sure if you want to wait the year to see like to see what happens with with the effect of the tring that we already did on it my question though is like he put in a permit how long how long is the permit request so so can we just put it on the calendar for next November whatever for you come back tell us what tell us what the result there's no additional permit fee and then we make a decision on you know obviously if it continues to be a safety issue well I can't speak for everyone I would personally be in favor of allowing you to yeah that's all asking for like I said we love the tree it's a beautiful tree yeah if it can improv we'll keep it but in fact um our tree expert yeah I love this idea UC have a massive aor dve I've been watching them gradually get bigger and bigger every year I I moved back to take care of them during the pandemic from law BR just one other quick thing right so with Sher with her recommendation right should we approve it would you be on board with planting two trees instead of one sure okay we're already the sweet gun that came out in the backyard I'm going theing so and it's two two in right two two in Vice one4 in because it's a 4 tree can be difficult to establish yeah I think what the mayor's proposing is really worthwhile though well when he said he was willing to keep the tree to see say yeah put it on pause to put it on pause but he should have to put another permit fee down I do have a question I'm sorry would we so this he my thought process mayor why would we not try to like why would we not not provide approval now is there no threat of anything falling off that tree separ from acorns right let's just think for a second that there's nothing beyond the acorns that would threaten the safety in the situation tring to think it it was trimmed already two weeks ago so trimmed already leaves are down just about for the most part so there's nothing that could fall from the tree as of I mean from a natural act right something Falls but not withstanding that right you're not going to have Rogue acorns or Rogue leaves about D droing you feel confident but but he won't necessarily have the same price from the same vendor I want to know who's taking it down when they taken it down safety in in the neighborhood so we're aware that that's why I'd like him to let us know when when he's ready when he's ready to go and I will say the other thing is you have such a beautiful Oak and there are a lot of people who are losing Oaks right now and I know Bill could speak to this but there's a terrible flight going around taking out our Oaks right and Oaks are keystone species in the canopy and ecosystem um it's a shame to see any oo however I understand your vison for your request but um coming back next year would be great to even find out if your your p is still healthy yeah so I'm sorry that for this so just real quick from the bur attorney's perspective because the the letter that we got from the lawyer said if we don't take any action we're going to be held accountable in the left if someone was to get hurt right so so then maybe we do need to give approval now but that's why that's why I'm back to it right so the the lawyer's letter says if if his mom or dad gets hurt they're going to hold us accountable so if it's in the less as such should an opportune yet reasonably foreseeable event arise where someone sustains an injury because of said conditions we reserve the right to hold the barrel accountable and we seek any and all appropriate legal remedies at such time so does that put us in a rock in a hard place by having that on paper now and I'm no we' be tap right but if we're not taking any act we're not denying it but if it but if his mom or dad gets hurt by the tree now for some other reason and the can's open are we liable based on the based on the way this is does his attorney know that he's willing to hold off to see what the triming has okay that's Andrew minute do do you think you should draft a letter tomorrow to his attorney just saying that his client is willing to table it for one year's time that's fine with me is that right awesome thank you yeah like I said we want to try and keep Ito the answer is no it's question answer no it would not be there's only one thing yes have in the report from the tree expert from town right that um she even went out of her way to suggest there's probably some folks who have come help you clean it up as some volunteer Mark olon reached out toes I'm just out there yeah I mean they offered but Tracy if I may it was literally the reality this year was it was three to four cleanups a week we were doing that's how many acorns were it stopped the drainage in the street because the we I have pictures the acorns there was a probably 10 to 12 inch high pile running the entire curb line water couldn't get through that's how many acorns that trees desperate to live on for sure and to your point that particular species is the one that is proven to be most susceptable bacterial unfortunate I hope it I hope it's it does shows no signs of it at this point right to here I'm going to reverse my advice take action today and then I don't need to draft a letter but to be honest I mean for us to even have the mere potential of any liability because col col he can't speak on behalf he he doesn't have power of attorney he's not the attorney of record so make the rule on this uh appeal please may you want me to make a motion please you want chy can State your appeal has been approved it's our understanding you're willing to wait until fall but if something should happen please let the Bro know and then we'll schedule you for November yeah that's great do I do that now to schedule for next year or sure we approve we don't have motion well they wanted to come back to give the input on how the tree goes if the input is negative then come back let us know okay if the input's positive I think we still want to know though yeah about the traffic stuff still going so I I will make MO approve the appeal having chrisy write it in the manner of what we talked about today and the good faith and all the stuff that exists any they deviates let us know and for two two of the two in two two inch and with a report back next November with the report back can we have one thing I would like to amend the motion to say with the understanding it's your intention to hopefully keep the TR absolutely yeah yes yes that all that is the right which is recorded thank you for following the per thank you okay being along we have a free removal appeal for 21 popler yes first meeting first first meeting they're always like this a lot of concerned citizens so I think we found the right Town we've been in Fair Haven for about a month welcome so yeah we live on 21 popular right behindwood Middle School um really coming in today for a safety concern we've got a 75 foot tree a maple tree that's around 10t from our home we've got a baby on the way it's in very close proximity to the home the tree is 21 ft from the neighbor's home it's 32 feet from the sidewalk there's a lot of kids a lot of people walking the dog there's a lot of traffic um I am not as passionate about keeping this tree as the individual before me I am extremely concerned about the tree and you know that's that's brought us here today it's uh you know safety aside which really is the main reason there are roots that are growing towards the foundation it's a huge tree there's a lot of animals and things crawling on to the roof um I I want to Echo again that I'm incredibly concerned about the size of this tree and how close it is to our house what's the diameter of this tree the tree is 11 ft in diameter 11t hold on 11 feet in circumference around oh the circumference yes well I'm very impressed that you've only been here a month and you know about our tree ordinance yeah Ser because we have residents whove lived here for years and 32 is the first thing the inspector told us when we bought the house that that tree was just not safe the roots are growing underneath our house it could affect our foundation things like that um our house is 1912 you know want to at someone that when I moved in in 2010 I had a six-month old I remember the feeling I had a giant tree in the backyard um there was a second giant tree in the corner of my property and uh I I had the one tree was approved to be taken down the one in the corner I was told couldn't be taken down it was in good shape and then in herane Sandy landed on my house I can certainly appreciate where you're coming from uh and the one thing that I'll point out is at the time when that tree came down I planted another tree that was I mean you know probably smaller than where this desk is and everyone made fun of it they called it the Charlie Brown tree and you know now I'm looking up you know it's three four times the size of me so uh you know I I certainly based on the report that Shar wrote here and the condition of this type of tree and how soft the wood is it sounds um I'm personally in favor of this uh as long as they're getting the two new trees in the ground qu I just want to thank you both for being here this is the type of discussion that should happen right following the process um when you do the you is obviously the recommendation to place two new trees right um I can't require it but I just kind of suggest really think through maybe work your bir resources or or someone just to help you guide where the new tree should be planted so in you know 50 to 70 years years you know when we're all along and gone that there's not a simar problem but thank you for coming and welcome to the you do the shap commission has tons of resources especially um when it comes to selecting native species to plant and getting some guidance about I'm you already seem to have a feel for where you might want the trees and not want the trees so um I know BR from pairs are on here um I'd suggest you look at the sh native plants all you to do is go on the the website and it's very user friendly just scroll through as a tree a little description you'll know what's going to be mature maturity and what it looks like in the fall versus winter you you it's very helpful and super easy to use and let me know if if you need help with that somebody will put you in touch I do have an off topic question it's not about trees um on like our portion of the sidewalk in our front yard is like one of of the trees definitely ripped up and so the sidewalk is like this um who do we contact about fixing that is that our property is that burrow property like what how does that work send if you could take a picture okay send it to Tracy and I and we we'll get an back here all right thank you okay welcome and Fair Haven I will second you thank you all in favor I anyone opposed thank you all right send you uh next up request from Fairman businesses to post lawn signs advertising Ladies Night Out 11:26 to 121 anyone have anything on this any conflict with the signs for the um they kind of factored that into their request they seem to know what's before and after no issues I I'm full support I'll make a motion to approve second all in favor anyone opposed thank you uh we have a request from the beautification committee to hang a holiday Banner four feet by 10 feet at Bin's entrance I assume that's over by the pond as coming down um anyone have anything on this um well I have you considered something more longterm like this is a vinyl banner to vinyl banner well maybe we could talk about we'll talk about some things offline okay a silly question it'll have like those cutouts so like wind goes through and it [Music] doesn't yeah just like Derma dreams very very similar and what is the message again happy holidays from the business district yes or from um shop happy holidays Susan you have it [Music] okay i' like to make a motion that we approve the notification committee's Banner a second all in favor hi anyone opposed thank you 2024 brush and leaf schedule awesome um I'm GNA send two pieces of paper around their sample Evergreen cans um so I'll provide some context and background of what is before you so this are ordinance components um that align with the proposed updates to have Fair Haven handles brush and leaf it centralizes definitions responsibilities um pickup times uh enforcement um and it talks about the uh green can um on the green can itself there's some things we need to talk through so the first piece is is the the type of green can and because the enforcement will specifically have to hone in on wrong can wrong height like the wrong type of material being put in and we've been having conversations with DPW and code enforcement on this we've gotten feedback from both code enforcement and from uh DPW on this um but we have to talk through the can initial conversations with Fair Haven Hardware they are willing to support whatever we need um order form PR caring can uh likely delivery of it um the initial discussion I think that we've had and it has been finalized is um homeowners can opt into the green can um meaning they're responsible for the green can they' work through Fair Haven Hardware to purchase it there's no limit on the green can um but Fair Haven Hardware is 100% on board um pending the feedback from today we would take what code enforcement came back with what um DPW came back with and dpw's primary comments were centered around yard waste um and the location from a practicality of where the can should be if you recall the alignment is with other utilities specifically garbage so garbage you know and as we look in June when our trash contract is up and potentially shift in the whole one day pickup for garbage having cans out only on one day of the week when it comes to trash and and um brush um if you recall the way the schedule will be um is January would be Christmas tree pickup uh April would be spring cleanout then you have brush twice a month which which is a double increase from what we're doing now in the fall you have your fall clean out in October and then it'll roll into four pickups for every Zone because we're getting rid of zones a b and c four pickups for every Zone one two 3 four which is doubling the leaf pickup compared to it is today so it does it in a cost neutral manner increases the services toofold um in between the bookend months and the fall pickup what will happen is we take all the feedback any additional feedback here work with um Andrew to put together an ordinance to introduce um at the next meeting um approve in December and then work with Fair Haven Hardware Communications the town January February March to prepare for the spring cleanout in April and then ultimately when brush can pickup season would begin in May um so the other thing that that it stream's going to do so I uh I had the pleasure of doing some light reading this weekend um and read through every ordinance that Fair Haven has um um and what this seeks to do and I'll have to work really closely with Andrew I did I read through the book like our codebook the entire codebook and what this seeks to do speed reading is to ensure that that it's a One-Stop shop so we have to figure out legally how this evolves into an ordinance and I mean there's ordinances going 201108 201027 201511 you'll see them there uh specific section so it's it's meant to be a One-Stop shop and ensure anything from before that makes sense is still in here anything that from before that doesn't make sense does not make it in here and folks can effectively reference what previous ordinances and sections are being updated and or modified and or changed I have some questions please um hurry up you got this but um the trash can do they have wheels negative the well that's hard that's if I'm collecting waste in the back of my house I'm not draining that trash to the curve okay no and if you it's filled with material it can be pretty heavy do they make cans that size that have two smaller Wheels like are they only the square ones that are on the wheels um I don't know that answer but if we found a solution with the green can because the size is important because we don't want it to be too much weight because then the team can't pick it up but if we found an equivalent size that would be accommodating I'm going to say to certain sizes of brush but I could tilt right and put on wheels like our garbage cans would that be a much better option I want it to come with check we have like our our blue cans come in large and small I like where your heads at you do have I'm looking at like a rubber made 32 gallon with wheels not saying that has to be a one there're smaller but you can get it's a rubber they make and that's 32 gallon right yeah I think the fairen hard would be more than happy to work at this on I think that brings and it's in the price range that we talking about yeah it's not I'm not going to come out with cost yet you guys saw the unit cost on here um because I don't want to speak until an actual C is said and bar than Harare said they were good residents like really good deal um this is my biggest question you probably already know I'm voicing it out loud is this is something where I do think enforcement is important as far as my concern is that people start putting out whatever can they have lying away yep and you know you hope there's not a lot of those cans out there because we have a uniform garbage that everyone's using so they shouldn't have those cans but it is my concern that they go to a Home Depot and they see that you know there's another can that's $15 and they don't want to spend the $30 on the can we have and then we have this eclectic mix of you know um of of a garbage apocalypse all around town that that just isn't I don't think it's the aesthetic so so my question is are we willing to commit to enforcement of one of two things either if you put in the garbage can they just don't pick it up you're not going to pick up and you learn the west alley or is is there is there a f attention I don't like finding our residents but also there need if we're not going to hand out one of these garbage cans to every resident we also need to set a standard that that if if you're going to use this service you need to follow it with with that look so this is can even hardar a stencil if they're delivering can they stencil something what do you mean stencil I don't think they would oh you think they would do the I think the manufactur do the stencil we could it just depends how much cost we want to would eliminate the it would so Home Depot but like manufacturer stenciling the ones that we all of at our houses the recyclings it's not it's not that was we paid for that to be but the but the manufactur embosses it or stencils it and sends it they're I don't think it's fair in Hardware that's what I'm saying they're not getting a blank garbage can and then stenciling on their own are they yeah can we ask them to do that it won't last I don't think they're gonna do it I can't we can ask anything I think it's a great question and I will inquire when I talk about the L um I just want to answer your question though right so as as the brush and leaf discussed the process right the brush and leaf issue with how much stuff is on our streets is pervasive right there's no adherence whatsoever in our discussions between community iation because there's a huge educational component code enforcement because we have to have a standard in key to it mayor and DPW there needs to be even further communication between DPW and code enforcement because whether or not they pick up material in a wrong can it depends what if a can is you know there's 40 cans and they're in the middle of the street you know it depends but taking pictures following up with a fine yeah and and I think there is going to be some heartburn luckily if this goes through and we approve it by the end of the year we have four months to communicate um but there's going to be some Harper there there's no doubt about it um we had 200 how many notices for Zone a after it was picked up 251 notices went out just in one zone right so just to give you an idea of how many people are already out of compliance and in fair to our residents you know the education the the communication piece the the amount of services right we're going to improve all of those and just ask that they follow the process but enforcement is key can I just ask a few clarification questions because I just want to make sure I remember correctly how many times will these be picked up during the week twice a month twice a month so think every other week okay in the in between the book ends of cleanup right so in between spring cleanout and fall cleanout twice a month some up and then leaves for the four times are just placed on the curb like normally if you want to put in here fine go ahead will take it but this is specifically to put bro right and you said people can have many of as many as they want as they want and we built it off of what other towns have done successfully okay that's that was part of the research there were 12 Town 12 towns 13 towns that we looked at with what they do and what their schedules are how they align to other utility so it was trying to take kind of best practices but apply the fairen way through because we're not all those we Fair no fine I just the reason I I wanted to clarify the the frequencies because I don't know even if we have all green cans and they're all the same it's going to look really nice if there's an excessive amount of these cans outside of homes but since it's only twice a month I think that's probably okay uh if it was more frequent I would be more concerned about her like you know driving by and seeing we have you know the trash cans and then we have the recycling cans and then we have this there's always essentially what looks like tra out and the intent with this is that pickup is on Tuesdays um and the intent is is that when we go to renegotiate our trash contracts there's been some discussion if we can do a one day pickup for the whole town do it on Tuesday right because right now hands are on the street three days a week not summertime or whatever the month is and then five days a week in the summer so we could potentially cut that down by two yeah that would be great because I think having that visual frequency of the cans out is would add to that yeah I agree but it's a great idea okay um I do I have I still I know you have couple more questions after the so you you me oh gosh um you mentioned that people could put leaves in the green can during the during After Fall clean out yes because here it says no leaves are or yard waste are to be put into the approved container one of the pieces of feedback I got from DPW okay yeah so so that that will be changed yeah they can put okay and and also I'm a little bit leafy clippings from Hedges that's consider I mean I'm serious I know people are going to have a problem unless we educate our residents very clearly like to me a leafy clipping if I was that would be that would be brush I would just throw that in the can but here it's considered yard La you know what I'm saying understood uh I think that can be um or shrub flippings to me that's Rush okay and then my last question um storage for these containers now I believe we have an ordinance against putting our blue and and black black cans where they can be seen from the street correct now we're asking residents not only to camouflage two cans now should they opt for the third can it's a lot of storage and that could be problematic for some people totally um I don't have a good answer what I will articulate is is that not everybody will choose to opt in we don't know how many people will op in um when we pulled the brush and leaf committee there were those that do their own and there were people that have landscapers there are people that do their own and wouldn't use this um to me it's very similar to if residents want to acquire an extra garbage can which they can or an extra recycling can and have to store it um I don't know how it's going to pan out we might we might roll this out next year and it might completely flop and we might go back to the drawing board and say you know what like there's good intentions but it didn't work so our intent for the Committee in 2024 is to track the data with it and track the anecdotes and and and hopefully see if that is a true it's a risk right now we don't know but that needs to be included in the education that those hands need to be cannot be seen from the street for the other ordinance yeah that's a really good point I didn't think that what else you got that's it awesome I will follow my fairen Hardware this week on the wheels the seal oh I do have one more how about like Community grants green grants are there any types of grants that you're aware of that would help offset ctive these scans for our residents not that I looked in I looked into that you canot we cannot use clean communities for uh giving garbage cans to private citizens they have to be on public property and I will say um know I I I do apologize I know I've been out a sick and I I did you know read this over and I've read uh the input from code from code enforcement and from Rich Rich's Department um I do think Drew we're gonna have to set up a meeting to go through this this is a very good first start but I think there's you know in order to get it to into a um ordinance format for introduction um on the 27th um I'm not gonna put words in attorney so's mouth but that could be um potentially a toall order um but I think the important thing is and I spoke to betan about this today is that we we're solid on the schedule the governing body is solid on the fact that we can get the schedule the spring cleanup the fall cleanup the cans in the middle um and the leaf pickup onto the burrow calendar which is the most important thing that needs to be done in November um because the enforcement piece of this although i' I'd certainly like to get introduced and adopted prior the Year's End if we don't do that we we won't be worried about it we could certainly do it um the first meeting in January and adopt it in February if if worse came to worse it's fair the only thing Fair Haven Hardware was concerned with was supply chain and having enough time so the sooner we know that we're going to go this and how many residents we have the sooner they'll be able to prepare for the supply chain 100% with you on the practicality of it let's set up the the internal call and if it's not ready for the 27th but we can work together and um figure out absolutely okay it's it's a pretty tall task I know you're um I so I've been thinking about this a hot minute and um for Big Picture This is a good thing I want to keep as much out of our storm drains as we can and this does that in fact it also delivering additional services with this model is phenomenal I think our residents will really like this um the the the obstacles if you will or speed bumps I think are yes we're going to need enforcement and we're going to make it really easy for people to get the cans and stuff like that but you know we're not it's not going to be easy for them to understand how to do this the right way nobody I mean some people know about it you're sitting in the room I bet you're still not exactly clear what's going to happen so even people who are tracking it a little bit there's a big blind spot so all I'm getting at is um the need for communication it's it's a little bit more robust like I engage the environmental Commission on this um they love it the the concept and what's being proposed um or going to be implemented because that's why I presented it they're going to help a little bit from a social media standpoint Discerning on vegetative waste versus brush um but even that is is it's my assessment um that I think we're going to need to spend a little bit of money on the communications and education piece I think if we don't do it are going to end up with a big hammer from enforcement and it's going to just create a negative response to what probably is a really good plan so um by a little bit of money uh I I don't I can't even imagine what that means at the moment but I think this is probably warant a dedicated nailer U probably a full color story that's very graphic and very visual so people can understand start stop what happens what's it look like people need pictures I mean even if I understand this intimately I know how helpful it is it's going to be see it in a picture for yeah and then I'm going to be able to tell my family right because it's one thing for one person to open but everybody in the family's got to understand it so can we just dog you this and know that from a communication education standpoint we really want to roll this out might need to spend a little bit of money on telling the story I love the mailer idea I love the Global Communication I want to be inviting to Residents as opposed to telling them and yeah you know we've we recognized sometimes there are gaps right with how what digital touch points or physical touch points people need to be aware of what's going on so 100% on board I think we make that part of this right so as we start on this process and this journey now we will do it in mind of that that invitation right to to educate about this I think it's great I'm 100% on board okay hopefully Outreach can come back with something whatever you need for me information you just let me know we're going to need a lot yeah going no I'm not going anywhere thank you everybody here all right moving along docu fishing and crabbing I know we touched on this some earlier in the evening uh I don't know if anyone has any questions as to where we're at right now just one question y um I'm 100% on board where we are what we're trying to do right that it's an evolving document etc etc my only question is when the sun sets at 4:30 on when the Splinter Solstice December 21st when it sets on that it'll the way the way it is technically somebody could fish or crab and not saying you're going to catch any fish or catch any crab but technically you could fish and crab until nine o' the feedback that I got um this week talking with the chief talking with people that I gu crab is it gets to this time of year and that's when it gets that Solstice that you're talking about with the earlier sunset and people stop crabbing in general at that time is and and I know we say fishing and crabbing but it's crabbing that's really drawing the majority of people that are down there um also we thought that it would be very beneficial to match up and listen I guess we could change both but to match up the parking times with the dot think about that um as well so uh that's where it's coming from I mean if if if this you know we could do two separate times we could do a you know a you know a October to March and then March you know to September type thing but now you deal with a lot of information on a sign that might start the hard for people to digest from from a parking standpoint here's my here's here's the reason I just think we can always pivot totally 100% I'm on board that I'm good I'm good starting with this just I want to and chief back me up here right the the police back me up I want to make sure I'm not going to say that's that's incorrect the police can't enforce something unless LA right like unless it exists so I guess what I want to ask is by having the times the way we are are we handcuffing our police from being able to enforce to the fullest extent that we are looking for here with the Restriction that's what I'm trying to get out right like if if we didn't put coolers on there you couldn't down there and tell people to get rid of the coolers right you have you're viting corre that's why the Times Really problem generally is a little later but by the time the time changes there's really nobody down there so that's why we just do sunset sunset what just make it check I want to make sure you guys are positioned to to yeah I think thank you sir I'm good so one thing because um similar thought I wanted to make sure we do what is most enforceable but also um signs on our Parks basically say closed from Dust to Dawn and I don't see any disadvantage to also having that posted down to the dog the issue that we're discussing just now is we're trying to well say do V you you you're saying have the parking from the sign at the dock I know but what I'm saying is if the dock has different hours it makes it a little bit harder I think that's what we're talking about for your Force to so wait I didn't say that I didn't if it's 8 to n if it's 8 to n every day for instance they're they're rolling through that neighborhood they're not checking their Google to see what my Sunset is it's just a little bit cleaner as far as um I'm in favor of that I didn't mean to cut you up I I'm I've been consistent about wanting the hours because we want our C to be able to be clear about enforcement so you're saying the doc I'm wondering if there's some advantage to also having a sign that says that that's like all of our other Parks it's closed oh we're going to have a sign at the dock that says the hours because it will catch all the other things my only question here which is a question for the chief which I don't think I've even worked through is the dock closed outside 8 to9 or is it just no fishing crabing we were talking about I think it was just no fishing crabing didn't really have hours to the thing that you said you know cles that like you said the park was at dusk or dark you know it just also limits resins well except only if you go down there and chase them off I mean you can't that's yeah this no this is the old this is yeah it's going to be updated for the next meeting and you have all the information yes SE is that what you guys are just covering all the all the things that I mentioned before are going to be placed in that ordinance um I'm sure we'll dial down on them and if if you again if you think of other things that you think should be in there or you receive feedback from the public let let me know so that so this section -6.2 going to remain we're not doing any permitting we're not allowed my understanding yep and then mayor right just we implement it and then we'll have data starting next summer right you should have data as soon as the spring but yes you'll get a lot more data during the summer when that's the majority of the issues that we're we're seeing and is there anything we can do proactively before that to prepare for that do we put a camera up down at the dock like permanent camera are there other things that we I'm not sure about a permanent camera but as I mentioned the chief has committed that we're going to have active enforcement there starting in the spr and there's I mean ultimately there's enforcement right now 247 C right now control so okay um we are at the public comment on agenda items only portion of the meeting this is only for agenda items please stand and identify Yourself by clearly saying your name and address for the record yes thate cutting down the trees that was on yes that was an agenda my know 22 poer I just have a comment that gentleman whose parents he was worried that was you know a great you know I I don't know him but I do know that young couple who who work full-time and she's 7 months pregnant they both sat here and waited through a very long meeting to ask for their tree you know to be reversed their ruling I'm asking you guys to enforce those who don't do that and who break the law just like if I have six DWI what will you all say I'm going to lose my license right if I cut down trees and I don't do what they do you should not be able to apply for a permit again why are we rewarding people and most of the time it's builders that come in they knock down trees without permits now this young couple sat there but the house across the street from them the Builder knocked down two trees without a permit you guys know it because I called I called you and I called uh the councel and they told they admitted they did not receive their permit yet and those trees were cut down that Builder bought that property for $800,000 he is selling the home for 2.25 million do you think he's worried about a fine I'm speak let me the fine I don't know what the fine is can you tell me what the fine is for cutting down the tree without a permit so so off the top of my head I don't have that information I could I could I can answer your whole question now if you want me to if we that person who defied he knows the rules this couple have been here one month they're a young couple they figured out the rule they knew the right thing to do the bill of the next door I don't even know who he is but he knows the rules he builds many houses and B he should be penalized for doing that yeah he should not be able to fly for a building permit because just like if the if the fair even gives me four DWI you the state of New Jersey is not going to give me a driver's license we should not give him a building permit because he he did not follow the rules on two properties that he's building in Fair Haven how about we we have that law now would you I know you're very in um Tracy you're very into the trees why don't we do an ordinance that says if you get a f anybody here agree with me you get F that you are not allowed to apply permit for a year for six months so Maria I wasn't trying to interrupt you but I I think I sort of have the answer you looking for so the ordinance that's set right now is probably so old that I'm not sure there was as much Construction in the burrow as there is right now going on it's very Antiquated and I'm even I'm I'm we've been fighting I can bring all my neighbors we've been fighting these trees on my block for years people that who are don't even but we've put a lot of work this year into a new tree ordinance primarily councilman Cole others have also uh been involved with it I put it on pause about two months ago I had some concerns with it I am very confident that in the New Year in 2024 we are going to have a brand new tree Ordnance we will take your feedback into consideration I don't care about the tree do you need a permit to cut down a tree in Fair Haven it depends on the size of the tree size of this person this family TR that's why they were here for an appeal yes so I saying if you break the law let's have it I don't care if you make the tree ordinance I understand that would be part of the new ordinance why don't we do that now but why do we need to do tree ordinance why do we say right now make an make whatever you call an addendum you know make something stop have you three minutes I'm going to stop I am going stop I'm going to stop you because we have a lot of business going on right now in the burrow and we're working on an all-encompassing tree ordinance that that will be a part of and that's and that's know anything about this park at the do St we did this couple but they sat through that I understand that they did it the right way they got they got their appeal don't know that they work fulltime they came straight here I know that I'm friends with them so they did the right thing they sat through that whole conversation that nothing about so why can't you sit through my two-minute rant and say do you think it's a good idea to do that it's not question but it's not a question and answer session Mar it's not that's not it's public comment it's public com You' made your public comment do that would you please vote on heard you I've got a note um and when the mayor's ready for us to take up the ordinance this will be captured for consideration we'll run it through the attorneys because I my comment is I do that today you're making it seem as if they weren penal which is not true what's that you're making it seem as if the comp the company that did this was not penalized for their illegal tree cutting which is not true but money doesn't bother people money doesn't okay but that's that's that's our current ordinance until we pass a new ordinance that's the way it is going to be do you would you consider putting that in the ordinance that if you make a violation that absolutely we're going to consider everything wa he smiled so what what do you think so you're smir are you smiling I'm have man no you're smirking he have honestly I don't think that would pass mustard I think it's Unis I think Unis I think that's just my opinion right now why would it be unrealistic because it's unfair that you would be you would preclude people from operating the business by building for removing a tree I don't breaking the law why do we have the ordinance I understand I understand he's talking about penalty you suggest so how about should so you agree that maybe New Jersey should have a rule that if I if I'm drunk for driving or if I go through the stop sign or I Che just find me money so if I'm a billionaire it doesn't matter to me but that's that's not fair why because if you're driving drunk you could kill someone if you cut down a tree that maybe is an inch bigger in caliber it's not it wasn't an engine you know I I understand I understand they're not taking any care about the town right so I live in this town a long time 27 years I'm worried about the town all the trees were cut down on my street without permits and you know what they do ask any building I'm a real estate agent the buildings tell me the same thing they will knock down the trees and not like this young couple that are going to build the trees they put in a $5 stick tree and then they sell the house and the people rip it out because you don't need a permit for that understand so that's my comment I hope that you do something about it I hope that you both do something about it I I think we've been pretty consistent this governing body specifically with saying we're going to do things and folling through on them I've just said I'm very confident that in 2024 we're going to have a new tree ears whether it includes exactly what you just said that I can't promise because we we need to put together an own compassing fance that not only makes sense for fair and passes legal muster as well but I I what I'm saying is I hear you I hear the frustration and I've heard we've had this discussion before and I I want to make it clear when someone has broken the law in Fair Haven we've addressed it there's no free passes here there are not we don't operate that way so I I don't want to I don't want you to make the assumption that just because you don't hear about something it doesn't mean that they didn't get a summon might nobody would known about you might be right but that's a that unfortunately that's a lot of what goes on around Fair Haven there's a lot of people at speeding you don't CL out about just call about people who break the ordinance for um Idol but you told me that you won't get involved in that on the street said I'm not going to tell the I I said I don't I don't tell them how to actually police on the streets when you called me about what's going on outside your house to to formally answer you I told the chief about it he sent people over to make sure they weren't idoling but they Idol every single day every single day that's a different discussion though that to say that we're not addressing that I'm not addressing agenda so I speak about it because there signs I didn't know you can come to any meeting and talk on the good of the B any single meeting that you want that's what we're in and I just want to hear you to hear me say that we will explore the appropriate penalty for those who disregard the law and cut down trees that are protected under the ordinance the penalties are much greater new or they are it might not be stopping their right to run their business but it will be an appropriate people should be but I don't think Builders my friends are Builders I don't think but they they follow the law my friends are homeowners they follow the law you know people are following the law they shouldn't be rewarded they we should all follow the law so real quick I give you another datea point to one thing that um we dialed in with the brushing lead was that people care about the money they care about their time so one way that we made time a part of the penalty was require court appearance right because when you start taking people's time up time is money so that's something that we identified before in the past and I can already see Tracy writing right now like we will by putting like the wrong brush out at the wrong time that well that the conversation came is people would say just find me 150 bucks I don't care if my stuff is out on the street because people don't care about money but they care if you have to spend eight hours in court so there are there are other levers we can pull to make the consequence for not following the ordinance have a greater impact on a business such as time right is another lever that we can pull so it's not the first time we've come up against where money really isn't an object I'm going to say that um and we've already brainstormed and put into practice and going to put in practice other ways to make it not ADV not an advantage where somebody just say I'll take the $150 fine on repir so I offer that as well anyone else in the public for agenda items up sir please state your name speaking my name's Steve 32 I'm Fisk street right across the street from the Poli station these guys look like they're doing a really nice job right now but um far from the trees you had a discussion about the B Centennial Hall and the bicentennial Hall is the tree the forest is it f chapel and and I'm I just moved in myself and my wife about five months ago in May and one of the first things I discovered as I learned about with this Chapel I have a lot of interest in African-American history uh but when I look at the chapel first of all some of the things I learned about it is that it the history of that Chapel parallels fa Haven and but quite a bit before Bay Haven fa Haven and you can follow history you follow demographics you can see the economics of be Haven also in what happened with the African-American community here but then when I and it's a it's a it's a gem um I think we're missing something here by not treating it like a gem because when you look at it it's peeling away the uh the roof is falling apart there's a beautiful circular stain glass wind stain glass wind at the top it looks like it's going to fall out um and the and usually when I hear it's referenced it's always a bicentennial Hall and I understand it was uh at the bicentennial but but that the importance of that building is not because it's called B Centennial Hall it's because it's Fisk chapel and all this really is behind it so and you know I've been to the historic commission and you know I understand that they have really no authority over that and I've talked with the people in in the historic Association and they're very passionate about it they have a garden party and they raised $50,000 so there's other people who you really care about that building but what I also haven't seen is that anybody's really responsible for the plan so it's good that we worked on the Ada that that you're getting that done with a grant but I've asked everyone is there a plan I just would like to implore you particularly the council and I know I met Tracy at the last meeting of the commission and she said she's working on I said but who's responsible since you have the deed which I didn't realize till later you own the building so you're responsible for the building who's responsible and she said we ask the counsel for that was a that was a nice answer but I wonder if a person could be accountable for putting together a plan for that building that takes into consideration not just the facility maybe pulls in the U historic Association say what's the plan for Education things of that sort that doesn't mean that uh the burrow has to pay for that stuff at least the educational part of it but perhaps the bur can be more assertive about getting that in shape maybe before the police station is finished um but it really it there's a whole lot to do there there's a whole lot of potential for particularly middle-age and high school children in this community and learn some history and to learn something about what's going on in this good things that have on in this community but how it's progressed and where how we got to where we are because I learned that I live in what was a black neighborhood yeah like 30 or 40 years ago I guess um so that's a great great asset you have and but it's really being wasted and it's not a it shouldn't be a meeting building if you just needed a meeting building maybe you have the community Community Hall is being put up that should be looked at in a different way and I think even when people reference it fist by sentenal and as it gets refurbished some signage that makes it appr then some more historical goes inside there's a lot that can be done there and right now it's really a it's an eyesore um people driving into the community they look at that building and think what is it and in fact there's a new house that was just built just put up it's not selling because I actually think that house looks nice I I don't think it's an eyesore that's the only thing you've said so far that I disagree with even with its blemishes I think it's a beautiful building even I drive by it's a beautiful building but it's being need some it's not being taken care of I think so maybe it's maybe it's just a little bit of a stain on on on us for not taking care of it and presenting it as the way it should be I I take that back do you do you have just I'm sorry to go off do you have interest in serving on like the historic commission you're going to get historic commission I've been to a couple meetings they seem to have nothing to do with that I have interest in that's not why I'm asking I I feel I have interest in helping whomever it is with strategy for making that what it can be in the community and representing what it really can be um but I asked the historic commission said this is not our this is this our purpose is is Fair Haven sure and seeing how away from the street I want to offer share a few things with you um I I think you've arrived in a moment when the story is still unfolding and um you happen to be here at a time when there's tremendous consensus about the next right steps for historic F Chapel or B Hall and um there at the good of the bro it wasn't anywhere else in the agenda uh was my plan to talk about these things we've received some memorandums from theor preservation commission and um we sort of have a clear path about what those next steps look like um but separate from taking care of the building you're also talking about the history the story and you're right it's very special um we the governing body applied for to the transportation Bo's Transportation group u a planning Grant to put together a histor walking tour um a fair we haven't heard back yet we know if we'll get it but the idea was that one of the stories that could be shared is um through sort of like an active listening thing where you you scan a QR code and upcome the pictures and you can listen to the story at different sites throughout Fair Haven and of course one of the stories would be about historic this Chapel um and it would be great to have you involved in that if Grant yeah and even if we don't get the grant it's still something that should happen and I I do know we have a lot of good partners I understand hbc's r on it but but there is an education component and the association's committed to telling a story to so so so my one my question is is there a comprehensive plan that has a budget whether you can meet the budget or not but is is such a plan that carry out over the next two years so there does it exist right now in pieces there's a um there's a punch list was generated a few years ago um that needs updating which is one of the things I'm hoping we'll act on tonight or at least you know make motion can to advance the updating that because we have some water intrusion and some other things that need to be addressed and that punch list could be more comprehensive um we also have uh what should probably be an update to an a maintenance and investment plan that would guide the burrow in what to take care of and what order some things our DPW crew can do for the building and other things we might have to hire a vendor or a more specialized type of contractor but that document should probably be updated um and that would help guide HPC as well as his body for budgeting um these things are happening that's what I want to share let me just add just data points right the original scope of work from Bicentennial Hall which included the Ada upgrades as well as I'll call them other improvements right there's a number and a scope associated with that whether we Implement that or not because as you're hearing tonight between the Ada plus we'll call it a punch list item to get it up to a point where it could just be maintained as what the goal and the intent is and on the relationship with fish Chapel we just signed a long-term agreement with fish Chapel right over by the police station and we we view that as a significant step to exactly achieve what you're looking for so I'd like to Loop you into those discussions those conversations I planning there with him I I would also give a a larger Financial picture which was in last year's governing body um there was a plan for bison all that we turned down and In fairness par partially the reason we turned it down is because we didn't know how much the police department how much the DPW going to cost and we saw those as the much larger cost that we were going to have as a burrow now that we have a better sense of where that is we can really uh get to the details on other projects and and determine how we want to move forward in addition to that some of us also felt that those plans would have been a betrayal of the historic significance the building itself so that's another reason why some people didn't support B committee the time the police department has finished the beautiful this Chapel the facility will be I'm not committing but I'm sitting here telling you again it's it's the it's the L of the night we hear you and and we also agree that it's important and we want to restore it the best we can as well yeah thanks thank you anyone else in the public I just wanted to say drew you are my hero I've been waiting eight years for green cans I I brought it up eight years ago I brought it up seven years ago 6 54 whatever and you're my hero and um I think our streets are filthy dirty regardless of our um street sweeper and the next thing I want to hear about is bagging leaves so but I am so happy you have no idea and I'll be the first person online to buy green Camp thanks team effort team effort lot of ice anyone else in the public with a agenda I know on Bonnie Bonnie a little follow to the um green hands could we possibly throw a little educational thing in there about you know you can choose to leave your leaves on your properties and put them in your beds and they break down and they have your soil and they P the they're also I mean they keep them out of our way cycle and they're really valuable as compost and I mean it's it's like a great little piece to have in there y um so I was just GNA I think that's a good thing to include it that is a theme already included in the communication themes andan actually posts that's part of her Buzz Stu so we can when we do this whole re-education and the Outreach and whatnot we can make sure that Alternatives put in on the street are included that's one of the central themes in the communication plan I can send I can send it to you what what was sent if you great um and just listening to Maria makes me Bes you to get this tree ordinance back on the agenda it it'll be the new year like ear part yes yes I can't commit when but that's that's that's the goal just it's it's so important because I mean I guess show how I can take my property impact me it impacts my neighbor it impacts the treat it impacts like the field of the whole so it's it is you know and when Builders come in who really don't care at all they're just making money um that really is particularly upsetting if it if I'll just say this if it was just the about like the amount of the fine or the amount then it would be done already there was it was more of an existential question about where the appeals would go to which commission stuff like that that's that's what's holding it up in the new year um you have my commitment to at least trying to move this forward to where it needs to be yes we'll get it done yeah we get everything else done we'll get it done okay I just want to thank C for talking yes I really yeah I hope we can get it back up anyone else in the public with a agenda comment no Alison anyone on La is that a no that's a no that was a quick no all right approval minutes September 26 2023 regular meeting do I have a motion to approve second Alon I please have a roll call yes yes yes yes hary gets dropped off at 910 it was 305 he was okay uh October 10th 2023 regular meeting second Alon may please have a roll call counc m Call yes yes yes yes October 23rd 2023 executive session motion second Al I please have a roll yes H yes yes thank you moving along to council committee reports um I don't know if uh next meeting for finances 20 November you got police fire police fire meeting is 20 November week from today on Personnel uh no the only thing is we they'll have an opening for DPW resum are coming in resumes are coming in oh great great uh parks and W who's my backup parks and me parks and W um our meeting for tomorrow night was cancelled uh we didn't have enough people and our next meeting is December 5th I believe yes uh planning board planning board uh our next meeting is Wednesday night uh we have a pretty light agenda which is nice um um our beautification committee is hard at work and uh right now they're working on improving and updating our holiday decorations uh which would include white lights on the poles new wreaths reusing some of the old wreaths but adding new uh bows uh they're working on uh some upcoming projects revising the bench and fed verication program and lastly um uh our veteran signs that were distributed the weekend before last I think everybody really appreciated them our our high school kids help to distribute them uh but what I would ask if you have a sign in your yard you have two options you can return it and just leave it uh behind burough Hall in the parking lot or we will come around at the end of uh this week and collect them and we reuse them so we'd like to get them back oh my code enforcement and our garbage contractor now so that they don't [Music] disappear I Wednesday night okay engineering DP thank you thank you engineering DPW followed by bough facilities followed by zoning board thanks mayor I'll start with zoning board um the 2022 any report was adopted by the zoning board at the last meeting that is in the packet and that's one of the reports to accept um if you recall we talked about last time um having a review of IT discussing at the governing body what the response would be because we did the memo to the 2021 and having that conversation back and forth so we'll follow that process we talked about um repairing was adopted tonight I think that's a huge success of developing a strong strong relationship with our zoning board and um conversations are ongoing mayor regarding drainage likely won't have an ordinance probably until the new year here just given the coordination that we want to do we've already coordinated zoning board with environmental um so we'll have some more to go there you'll be getting some direct feedback from environmental discussed at L awesome um I'll switch to facilities and then end with engineer DBW so from the facilities let's start on the PD Community Center um if you're not signed up for the buzz please do we keep sending pictures out the foundation foring is happening as we speak uh the community center mayor is going to be demolished week of 27 November is as of now so dates can slide to the right um so I'm going to always ASC dates site clearing continues um going to coordinate with Rec to remove the temporary bathroom no update on appropriation um it's really coming along so as these facility Milestones keep working we're working very close with Communications committee um and we're working on the memorial for Chris Chapel on DPW um auction oh thank you yes um we're also doing a second auction um so there's a tremendous amount of office supplies office furniture uh just random things that um it's advantageous to have somebody else take away and make a couple bucks remember the last auction we made around 41 Grand I do not expect that volume of money but nonetheless it's going to be um another auction and that's on the agenda tonight as well ppw got the bids in came in 1.5 million less than the cost estimate our updated cost avoidance now was over $12 million so if you recall the last costance number is 9.7 we've avoided taxpayer dollars 12 million plus um that is the equivalent of a new PD new commenity center on renovated DPW just put it in context uh we're going to look to award DBW in 27 November we have some things we need to work through to include determining if we're going to award the alternate um we're doing some deep analysis on that um we've also identified some potential software and equipment that we can add to our our our camera that can do license plate reading in real time we have some diligent to do on pricing and whatnot um but it would be able to identify license plates in real time 24 by7 and provide real-time notifications to the police who are monitoring so think about like a legal dumping at the recycling dump and in the moment the cop on duty being able to know that someone's doing that they go right there and they catch in the ACT um it's it's unbelievable how fast and and I just learned about this with the technology so that covers facilities and I'll end with engineering DPW mcarter Pond you'll see that the resolution is on tonight to do some initial call at work at marter Pond uh Fair Haven Street lighting you'll notice that the authorization to bid is on the agenda tonight um with Rich getting involved Rich helped us avoid $188,000 in design costs to put the bid package together and also based on his estimate we should avoid another $150,000 in Project costs by going this route as opposed to the original route so it's $168,000 that we avoided with uh with this out Hansen Cooney markouts coming out mayor um then we need to discuss Paving and there's a couple other components with Hansen Cooney um just to make sure that things get buttoned up there um I'm GNA skip over storm management uh Fair Haven Road Project we will be doing more of an invitation on Fair Haven Road as we start the design it's no longer Fair Haven Road phase one phase two just we're GNA squash that it's now Fair Haven Road upgrade we have a million dollars in grant money from the dot think sidewalks think curbing think Paving um storm water management upgrades crosswalks um evaluating speed limits there's going to be a lot in that there will be Community engagement with that um micro projects should be starting soon we got crushed with seven weeks of rain so that pushed everything to the right slightly there's five additional homes that require some white glove mayor um that we weren't able to get in touch with the homeowner on on the really on some of the work um but besides that um there's one zoning board meeting left in December um engineer DBW scheduled for Thanksgiving but I don't think we'll make it um but that's everything uh two questions real quick Hydra rake and hand cooning will they be done before winter season or are they pushing M you said marter marter should be done before the end of the year um I believe they're on the docket as far as Hans and Cooney that's what we have to coordinate because because if the markouts happen 15 November which is the tentative date tentative tentative tentative the tree is not coming down uh that is confirmed um but if the markouts happen 15 November then Verizon goes in they have to remove two polls they'll give it a clean bill of health then we have to engage the contractor exactly so we're gonna do everything we can to come up against the frost window but if everybody saw this morning this was I think the first Frost this morning thank you yes uh Council Nicole B Communications community Al thank you mayor um Outreach and Communications met last week um it's a bit of a blur so we had a good discussion on the heels of our last council meeting so it might have been two meetings ago um and we had a we we unpacked the meeting and I count I credit councilwoman Hoy for raising that whole discussion around transparency and making sure that we're doing the best we can do to serve our residents and to so communicate clearly and um in that discussion and Allison you can you and I were both there now that Chris in here and I know Teresa you were out sick but um in that discussion we talked about when a matter is in exact um and the public is aware that perhaps it's an exact but they don't actually know what's being discussed and then when it hits the agenda as a consent item it can kind of catch people off guard and the remedy and recommendation from the outreaching communications committee is that when an item's been in exec that it go be move when it first comes to the agenda to Workshop um that's an opportunity for residents to hear directly from their elected officials um whether that's long or short you know that would be a function of the issue and the mayor um running the meeting but the recommendation is to go from exec to Workshop rather than exec to consent agenda um we touched on brush and leaf but just know that I really think it's a big lift I think it it's going to have a lot to do with the success or failure of this initiative I want it to be successful so um our next meeting is coming up and I'm gonna we're going to spend some time on this and talk about what it needs to look like and how we get from where we are now to um a a very easy friendly read and how how people integrate it in their home life um that's an environmental commission um sorry are we meeting this Thursday because technically would be next week we bumped it to the before that's this Thursday I think so can I can I Circle back to but probably me this week if you want me there just thank you thank you so much um the environmental commission is preparing it any report they heard from a number of people as they're compiling they're s look ahead for 2024 for as part of that also the Natural Area that represent from the Natural Area D Street Trail both are hosting um volunteer Deed on November 18th and 19th in natural areas housing volunteer days from 9:00 to 1 you'll need to come with work gloves and simple equipment and volunteers will be there to help guide you as you participate and you'll need to fill out your volunteer or your volunteer waiver form same for Third Street Trail December 3rd from 10: to 2 if you're interested in coming out bring your your gloves and there'll be leaders group leaders there to facilitate the waiver signing them out volunteer waiver and you'll get guidance on how to help participate it's great community service hours and some people think it's very therapeutic um green team is hosting a Sports Swap on December 9th um they're still looking for a place for the drop off I know the discussions have come up about using the drop off at the library I think they're going to look at outside of NW sports equipment can kind of be big and clicky I'm not sure it's suitable to outside of the library so stay tuned I'm sure that they'll make sure we all know where to put our sports equipment um prior to December 9th because I think is the beginning of basketball season no I think it is like basketball at no wood well travel basketball's already started ber so's on the board so he's a better person ask me December 9th the beginning of basketball season for no one no no school yeah the school team I don't I do not know all right they just started trials today they start trials they just started trials so maybe it's the first home game or something well anyhow they're trying to coincide with an activity that the community be aware of sports spot because they're there for sport um the Sha Tre commission uh as you guys know they got the grant award for um the tree inventory as of today um with Christy's help they've processed 115 tree removal applications um you can probably understand that there's more than one tree for most tree applications tree removal applications many of those trees are diseased or or I'm dying but anyway just so we have a way to engage I'm keeping those numbers on the radar um the blight that we touched on earlier is still with us and maybe for some time that's what I'm told there's absolutely zero guidance other than prune for safety I I'm sorry I don't have more information none of the experts do um the grants committee is meeting on I think it's next week um and we're going to take a close look at the mount County open space um they're they've just opened their 2024 funding round to take a good look at that it's up from 250,000 500 grand um Comm engagement is a required component of the plan there's a planning Grant and anyway we'll break it down we'll provide a summary for the governing body hopefully by the December meeting um business district is getting ready for their shop small Saturday come on out it's a beautiful fun event and um it's a great time to come and just start your own Christmas shopping and support our local businesses um sport coer at 803 River Road was just added to the or just joined the faan Business Association so welcome um and I'd like to some historic preservation stuff if that's St will here I can wait to go to the B it's appropriate okay go for um the historic preservation commission sent us two memos one having to do with what Matt Cronin presented this evening and so that business is done the second memo had to do with um we T yes the maintenance and Improvement plan prepared by historic architect Alexander mark Alexander pav this report was um I've touched on this earlier it's a guiding document and it gives us sort of like step bystep that's how you take care of historic property that's on both the state and National Historic register so um they sometimes need a little bit more TC we'll call it and so this document which is now 14 years old um well 13 is is in need of updating now Mr pavv is it's phenomenal and I would love to be able to get him but the recommendation is to hire him to update this document it will serve as a basis for consensus whether we're fundraising or we're making decisions about investment as a governing body for our budget purposes or even for this sort preservation commission that may from time to time have taken interest in the outside of building and something that they may see um so it serves all three of our Partnerships in the different hats that we wear it it it does not cost a lot of money either um I think that his retainer was $2,500 so um I would like to suggest that we follow the guidance of the store preservation commission and make sure that there's a line item in the budget next year to retain and Professional Services necessary to update this document um it's the his well it's the it's the fist Chapel preservation project maintenance and repair action plan is the title and it is just that literally list of actions and it identifies what actions are we could take care of in house with BPW and what actions um we have to you know hire especially um we this may actually be an RFP if Mr pav is um potentially tired or doesn't have anyone in his firm to pick up his work so Teresa what would you what would you advise at this point do we have enough to issue an RFP you're on mutea you'd want to issue an RFQ because you want a you'd want a money involved it how much they want to charge for it excuse me and um I think uh depending on the scope of work I I thought that he was retired pery and he wasn't doing this type of stuff anymore was my understanding that's what I thought too yeah yes I think so I'm hoping there's somebody at his firm but I don't know yeah we'd probably have to do a little more due diligence before we figured out the best way to approach this the important thing is that we have the budget for it yes exactly so I think we're looking at two remaining action items um which is updating this document through the RFP process that would ultimately come to this body as a proposal for scopal work to update this plan and then um an update to the punch list to include a bunch of stuff um to take care of the water intrusion to it would seem to me that you you'd want to coordinate those two if you're gonna pay a professional you're talking about a scope of work that needs to be done you really want that professional to dony the entire scope of work as part of IDE and and I'd have to double check the ordinance that we passed back in uh um last year but or two years ago um but I I I'm sure fairly sure there was some soft cost in there and there might be enough in the soft cost that ordinance to cover any planning piece of it there is some soft cost I don't I don't remember the number but I remember the conversation we had makes sense to do it now yeah bring it up to a certain level and then you just maintain it going I mean is everyone on the same page here like to make sure we get the consens like know how much it's gonna cost I think um Theresa is recommending an RFQ so we can get a handle on that and can we reach out to the previous guy to see if he retired and two if he has any recommendations outside of it absolutely I I can make those FS Teresa that's fine Tracy okay so look for a followup email great but but conceptually I mean this this taking care of these housekeeping items and bring the building up to really where it deserves to be um I just want to make sure we're all in agreement on those things conceptually yeah great thanks you good mayor's two other quick anecdotes um spoke with little silver Town Council they're going to continue making improvements to the rbr parking lot the representative we've been building relationship is in charge of all interlocal service agreements so if there's any interlocs you think that might be advantageous or collaborating sound little silver just let me know and I'll it off to somebody and then just want to hand these out to smile on everybody's face and the public can happy to see I got to give kudos to DJ bre and Rin Allison they um they provided bural tours about a week and a half ago and the students wrote letters and no way like just crushed it though like I I I kind of inserted myself a little bit um but between talking about finance and planning board the kids the questions these kids had uh hey if this is zoned this way am I allowed to build X we have a new mascot his name is Scotty Scot Scotty get here question that was asked that was a question that was asked to me at the school um it goes back to when Mike haer was the mayor and there was hunting on the river duck hunting and somebody just brought it all right forget how ask the question yeah but he's our masc now but long story short like DJ Allison they did a phenomenal job it was a marathon it was six hours of Tours every single third grader from sickles came and we want add to it we started to talk about adding fist Chapel history to it and and kind of having other things so it was uh it was great so please take a read of these before you leave some of the comments are just why you move this this to they're sharp and scary so thanks mayor for IND all right we're moving along to the consent agenda we're speaking about resolutions 20232 70 through 281 we're pulling 279 pulling 279 okay so we're 270 through 278 and then 280 through 281 and 270 274 mayor 270 was pulled from the last meeting and so we're picking up 274 for this uh before we vote uh does anyone want to separate anything my only suggestion is perhaps we spent a moment on the hyra raking to and that that's one of the ones that's been in exec for a while it's now on the consent agenda and I know people care about this issue um we could just well we can't talk about the last Hydra project but we talk about the go forward on this one is that what you're saying yes T you want me to I'll give a quick update so not withstanding the previous project um we kind of went back to the drawing board and identified um what our options were to start cleaning up a Carter p um it included going back out to bid completely um it included um identifying contractors in this space that have done maintenance in these types of scenarios in surrounding towns um and given um the the length of time that this has taken um and the need to start in the Hydra Riki now and not in the spring and definitely before the D ban not ban prohibition begins because you can't do Hydro raking during spawning of of fish AES um what's on the agenda tonight for approval is one reputable company to come in um they're going to charge us per day to clean up the pond and when we hit a threshold we're going to stop um what we also talked about was that there's a tremendous amount of knowledge and data points required about marter there's a lot of historical changes that have taken place sorry I there's a lot of historical changes that have taken place I know that and I'm bed with like geographical directions but if I'm standing on a fairhead room looking at it I'm going to say like the northeast corner right and all the vegetation that has grown there um there's anecdotes of of How It's been overflowing how that drainage where it flows at is an issue uh how high it's been I know there's a a drainage pipe across the street um and where it used to kind of stay so um going with this option will do a few different things um one allow us to start cleaning up the pond because it needs to be clean up there's just no question about it two develop more knowledge about the condition of the pond and the type of effort that would have the greatest impact both from a Time perspective but also Financial um and as we go on this journey right continue to talk with the residents surrounding that area um I I learned not too long ago that there's an area that one resident takes care of and puts mulch down with where their benches um so all this different information kind of coming to this inflection point doing this year and then be positioned with the 2024 budget to continue um what we've learned is is that there is a general maintenance to these types of water features uh this Pond um and obviously with what it resembles in the town is really important so that's the background of where we are tonight and the goal is that we approve the resolution tonight and the contractor starts stents I'm not I don't have a date uh but soon as to be done before the end of the year we didn't go back out we just got we just got proped yeah any questions is that helpful background context um they're going to be Hydro raking which is removing the organic debris um in there it could be leaves it could Beck systems out put it in take it away ice skates yeah they're gon they're to the a facility facility that takes this they dry it out they do this whole they have they have a very detailed process of taking it out let it dry let the water drain it back into the pond so you don't leave a lot of water then it goes into the container and then you take the container to the dump they got to weigh it and they have a whole separate way of disposing of this type of I think it's actually a class material don't quote me on exactly you offering those wide streets on [Laughter] so if anybody sees anybody walking in the pond it's this activity all right um we don't want to separate anything no no no any other questions on anything no okay do I have a motion to approve motion to approve with the exceptions that we called out second Al may please have a roll call M Cole yes yes yes no yes thank you uh Department reports 2022 annual report Zoning Board of adjustment October 23rd reports do I have a motion to accept the reports as submitted a motion with a thank you as always seriously these are are important all in favor something you want just one thing um as Council La mentioned um discussion around the zoning board annual report is warranted I think it should be a regular part of our business and how we how we metabolize these annual reports so and we'll bring a draft back to the Gover for review prior to communicating with the zoning board motion to approve all in favor I anyone oppos and I just want to point out I took a brief look at that Police Department report this month I think I saw the police responded to over 780 calls or something a month I just I just want to point out I'm not sure everyone realizes you know how often they have interactions listen interactions are all different but um you know Clos to you in the department for all the work you guys real quick M 70 divided by 30 days that's 26 calls a day uh all right go to the burrow please stand identify Yourself by clear your name mag record Mr Hemstead on up thank you um quick what is the white glove service um White Glove it's a it's a terminology we throw around where there's a a certain situation or scenario where direct engagement between a council member and that Resident is required so think about if I was going to rip up your driveway because I need to do I'm it's not like there's disrepair oh no no no no it's just where it's GNA be extremely disruptive it's it's using it's really a technology ter hoping it was the other no I was like wow we have that service here no no not this year may the house I want to recomend um I'm here to appeal to the council what's that oh Chris Hemstead 53 Willis Street there Jersey I'm here to appeal to the council um with respect to the terminology that we use about some of our celebrations in town in particular we had uh a very celebrated and and welcome Manor lighting which is invited to All In Town not just you know people Jewish faith but everyone is invited it's on the it's on the website it's on the focus on Fair Haven we also have a Holiday Stroll with Sant and what I've asked and I asked it at another meeting and i' I've later found out that this was actually brought before the rec committee and possibly the council two years ago three years ago um that we add the Christmas tree lighting to our holiday celebration similar to how we have the Hanukah lighting right the minor lighting now there's a reason why we had certain things if you consider a particular object secular okay as opposed to religious item your interpretation would lead to okay it's a secular item it's not religious it's okay to say it you can't defend anyone because it's secular if it's religious you open the town up to what is considered The Establishment Clause then a lemon Rule and then what has later become Reindeer reindeer tests or whatever it's called if you look locally across the United States of America this specific issue has come up thousands of times and if you look this year you'll find a case in Massachusetts you'll find a case in Chicago and if you look last year you'll find another if you go back to 1974 and I think 1969 you'll find history of this specific matter can you have a manora and a crash in a public place now some courts have said no you can't have a manora and a crash you can have a manora you can't have a crash you can't have either you can't have both the important thing to remember is there's an interpretation it's not coming to the council asking you to establish an ordinance because you don't need to and I think the um our attorney would would would also by the way have had pleasure of speaking with the mayor uh independently and informally about these matters and I've had the pleasure of speaking with the bur attorney and some other members of the council and and it's just it's just to sort of gauge an awareness of what's going on so my ask and request of the council in the interest of fair is to let's just be be fair about it let's have our manur Lighting on that what is December 10th or whatever it is and let's have our Holiday Stroll with Santa and Christmas tree lighting on that evening and that's it let's not B the alternative would be let's rename everything and let's have a candle lighting and a tree lighting right and that would be a fair and balanced approach to this whole thing and I think that would keep Haven you know in the context of everything you know in line with the way the rest of the country has seen it now New York City has tackled this you know how they do it they have a giant manora and have a giant Christmas tree this is New York City probably the most liberal City in the entire world and they have both okay stop Josh do thank you thank you for your comments so I'm asking for your consideration it's not an ordinance I'm asking for asking for thank you for your comments there is a treat there is a I mean I think the rec department does organize a tree lighting event they won't call a Christmas tree you want it named a Christmas tree yes or rename the monora lighting for candle lighting one or the other oh why would you have one religious object and not another why would you have one secular object and not another that's all I'm asking you're saying as a religious absolutely so Chris as we spoke earlier I'm going do my research I told you I didn't have the opportunity this weekend um and then I'll advise the the councel and we'll talk about it I'm SE the council do anything that puts you at risk just have the Holiday Stroll with Santa and Christmas tree liting that's all I'm asking thank you do it in print just put it on the website just like you do everything else reasonable ask does anyone else on Council have any questions about this or the the three minutes have expired so you know may okay you know a lot of people's minutes have expired all right and I I've been fair about this okay this is a really important matter before count your time has expired thank you Ferguson s Court I've been uh the fhba organizer for the Holiday Stroll for the last 10 years I just want to provide a little context um in uh 2020 the pandemic year there was no holiday event in 2021 we had our Santa in the Park event but there was no tree lighting because we were trying to avoid conest in the park uh left there there was a tree lighting as part of the big event but I just want to stress that the town doesn't really have a big commitment at this point to a tree lighting event yeah so the name of the events is the Holiday Stroll and Santa in the park um like I said that might change at some point maybe the town will have a bigger commitment to a tree lighting event but in recent years it hasn't really been a focus in anything thank you thank you anyone else in the public Alison I have Susan oh yeah Susan can I speak am I on oh okay I couldn't tell if I was on or not um I just wanted to say that I think that can you hear me oh sus from 34 CLA street is that it can you hear me okay um I just wanted to say that the Fair Haven Business Association do an amazing job at putting together this Holiday Stroll and tree lighting and Santa in the park the tree lighting piece is the Burrows portion of it and that is such an insignificant portion of the entire event I mean we're g i mean the the fairen Business Association has put together having hor drawn carriages I mean they make it as such a phenomenal Community event and obviously it is Christmas it's it's it's Christmas driven but because you have a tree and you have Santa and all that but it really encompasses the whole Community I don't think it matters whether the tree is deemed a Christmas tree or just a tree lighting or not I think the way we have it today is is fine and is great so that's just and plus the fact plus the fact that our tree is so pathetically sad that and and I know next year there's a whole thing that we have uh put into place to do something to replace that tree for next year that but but regardless of the tree itself the event has is the tree is so insignificant to that phenomenal event that the Fair Haven Business Association Along with DJ and the recck department put on that I I don't think there should be any controversy over it I think it's phenomenal so I applaud everyone that and Carolyn and Lauren and everybody in DJ that put that day onree you call it a Christmas tree that somehow diminish your event I don't think it's necessary is there anyone else um but it's okay to call it's okay to call out of no someone just dropped good we're good all right uh with that being said we're going to move towards executive session the time is 10:37 all in favor I anyone opposed thank [Music] do I have a motion to adjourn motion second all in favor I anyone oppose no fa night