let's call this meeting to order at 7:02 p.m please rise your PL flag of the United States of America please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings Act public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast with bur Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of November 27 2023 is available available by call and phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raiseed hand button and we'll be called on with the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 20233 and sent to the Asbury Park Press the Two River times and the Star Ledger on January 6 2023 post on the burough website the Bolton board and the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison M please have a roll call council members call here H here H here Bara here NE here here thank you we are going to start off with the Champions and speaking of Champions uh quick update rfh is up 14 to7 with 10 minutes to go in the four quarter all right we got 8 you and 11 youu you 11 [Music] you um I'm going to ask if we could start with all thees coming up Eric Ro here Eric Roo um Ron chrisy Joe Jerry Medina Andrew St yeah get up Williamson BS James hary Jared and Andrew soble again I think we're gonna start and especially from uh all the baseball players let's give your [Music] coach okay so what we have here is a proclamation from the burough Fair uh every single player is going to go home with one of these today it incorporates both teams at the same time so what I'm going to do actually going to hand out try and Eyeball half of them and you guys can hand out to your players as I Nam them same on this side and I will read aloud whereas the 11U and 8U Blue Diamond baseball teams each won their 2023 season including their championship games and whereas the 11U team had a fall season record of 96 and two and the theme as a whole since Inception has won over 70 games the8 you fallball team had a record of 11 and0 this season and whereas the players coaches parents and supporters have all come together in making true championship teams and whereas the dedication hard work long hours of practice Mutual support and commitment of the players and coaches exemplify the pride and heart of the 11U and 8U L dunan baseball programs and whereas as I call your name please come up shake your coach's hand you can start the line line up I'm going to start with 11U we already named our coaches um I'm jumping down below but I'll do that anyway shef Barber Johnny vanel young man spend more money at the basketball Kevin Griffin Donan Hendrickson K oh Gage cage in the house great quity right so cool 8 you we ready all right let's start it off with brace far K head na and soall stand I just want to finish it off this ended by saying you should be honored for your Hard Work Talent dedication and commitment for the development of our youth to the remarkable team that's for the coach once again to the coach moment as someone that's spent this entire weekend hours away from home watching my kids play sports let's all give a round of applause for our parents the recognition and celebration of these championship team serve to bring our community together in honoring these players and their coaches for a phenomenal baseball season resulting in outstanding records and championship titles so uh it's my expectation I want to make sure you all he this that next around November 27 we're in here celebrating the 9u and 12u Championship season understand you don't have to leave but this is usually Point everyone guys you lat thank you [Music] okay okay yeah we'll hit on it we have time yeah yeah um all right moving along Workshop session by Centennial Hall councilwoman Cole you ready to discuss yes um I think I'm going to be tag teaming with councilman La Bara Council La Bara um on the heels of our last council meeting where we reviewed a memorandum of action from the stor preservation commission we spoke to really two items one was the update for um what we know as the maintenance and Improvement plan which is a kind of a 10-year guiding document that helps us sort of set forth a maintenance plan ongoing with by Centennial he as well as um some outstanding um we'll call them punch list items which is work that I think we all recognize as outstanding items at bentum Hall but on the heels of that memorandum we talked at the last meeting um about next steps um I volunteered to reach out to the original author of the maintenance and Improvement plan which is Mr Alexander Pavo well-known preservation architect um I was able to confirm a few things his uh availability uh his interest which is endearing to me he's uh in the later stages of his career and at one point his firm had a 2500 people and multiple offices his um his firm is now made up of about 10 or 12 I'm assume the 12 have to do with couple part-time um Personnel but he has really a complete um team um he's actually taking the time to drive by by Centennial Hall is very familiar with our um um this historic structure in Fair Haven and is interested he also has the capacity to do the work which was something we W short of um with that in mind um I would like to suggest that we kick off a discussion having to do with what is the what is the feeling of council what is the concern from this body as to what we wa want to accomplish and I'll toss it over to from over there to round it out yeah sounds good and and the other thing that we put together um was a was a draft plan of how we're going to address ada8 non ada8 components punch list item ada8 components right Discerning who the key stakeholders are um to include historic commission um potentially we've been in fist Chapel because of the partnership that we've been building over time with them and the historical significance um I think the most important piece um at and and I love the idea of the historical maintenance plan I think an important piece is to ensure that we keep in scope what those historical pieces are and what's not um so we can take advantage of his expertise and and specifically where would have the biggest uh the biggest impact um some of the next steps that we've talked around is is pending today is is a follow-up discussion getting some key stakeholders together um and and talking through talking sitting down with M cron in um and the the timeline that we talked about was looking to award the project right which means drawings are done and we have to WR bid all that award at the end of q1 of 24 and then have construction start at Q2 of 24 we tossed around it's probably three to six month lead time right depending on what the final scope is so um yeah that's can I ask a question um when you talk about um a q1 and and three to six month lead time right now you're just talking about the improvements that we have approved correct based on um ADA compliance and all of that ADA compliance and then the the list of punchless items remains to be seen what that is in like inclusive but there are items that are beyond the pair the there's leaking roof gutters water cleans to the basement so there are a key list of items that have to get done to get the building to uh maintain I forget the word we were using stable yeah stable into a level of maintainability right right now we don't know what those are right now we have a list we have a sense of what some of those are you're right it's probably not we don't know the cost of each of those items on the list and to council L's Point some of them are maybe more preservation oriented such as um addressing stained glass windows for example that slightly more specialized and we don't know what that might cost we also don't know what it will cost to make sure the basement is watertight but obviously the these are things that would fall under the categ of deferred maintenance um which cannot linger ongoingly without significant interventions would be far more expensive than addressing um what we know as a problem now okay I did reply to the the draft that counil La be sent out today and and made comments and did copy Rich Gardella as you recall Rich did do a punch list several years ago where he had the ano items at $180,000 approximately I think from my perspective it's important that we get the adaa work that's been approved by the cdbg Grant in 184,000 out to bid as per Richard Matt Cronin and making this decision then from the governing body's perspective on who you want to use as a professional um what you want to cover and how you want to put that out to bid separately or or not you could just get two quotes on each thing can decide to go next are you suggesting so I think I'll back up and say it would be ideal if we could complete both bodies of work say for example this time next year um with the idea that all the repairs will be in place we'll know what the maintenance Horizon looks like so that the budget in 2025 reflex whatever's maintenance clost will be there are obviously be going to be much less after this initial investment is made are you suggesting that we do things sequentially yes I I regardless of the timing of the the balance of the work at at bison diving all based on the timing of the grant which was already approved by the grant what we have sitting out there and the fact that Matt cron and Rich Gardell already have that scope of work you know pretty much complete based on their last V that it would make the most sense to go out to bid on that initially and then decide your professionals and your scope of work for the balance and and either go out bit on that separately depending on the scope of work you might decide hey we're not going to go out B we're going to get two painters to give us quote or you know until decide those items that are over and above that how you proceed with professionals and going out to bid remains to bece but you're very clear on the cdb GPS first of all they have to approve it to approve the bid and if we start you know we got into this originally with them when we tried to separate the the grant versus the non-grant and then the Govern by ultim decided they only wanted to award what the grant covered so I think it's important that we keep that separate and tied to the to the grant get their approval and then ultimately you know you might even have to get shipo involvement some of this other stuff we already have it for the grant there's no point to me in holding up that work oh I agree I I don't think this should hold it up but I also don't think that we should um be delaying any of the other en I I don't I don't disagree with you from the fact that some of this stuff definitely needs to be done but that's really up to the governing body and the timing and the process for that is also up for the governing body so you know putting the the initial you know cdbg work out to bid yes we already have it conceptualized then deciding how you want to handle it both whether you put a committee together or whatever you decide of stakeholders um I'll participate that as needed as we rich and and then you can go from there well I could understand why I'm sure there's a lot of things going on right now too so probably feeling a little spread then they um the problem I have a delay I heard you say two things I heard uh you said well I'll just get out our discussion here I heard heard you uh Teresa suggest delay um which would mean Ada continues which is good we should that that work should continue to play out um I have some real concerns about waiting to do the work that is currently fasing the particularly the water intrusion in the basement um I don't see the advantage of at least for the building I don't see the advantage of waiting until the ABA work is I say happy wa was completely wrong my point is that you should get that out to bid and then decide how you want to handle the balance of it the governing body might decide that the waterproof in the basement is a top priority it might want you to go out and get two post and do it you have $350,000 in in a bond ordinance for vieno Hall so there's no shortage in funding but ultimately what is funded above and beyond the ada8 improvements that our grant funding is really up to the governing body well I think that's what we're here to discuss yeah so what and so what I'd like to propose is I'd like to to have some type of meeting and I think there's two concurrent paths two concurrent critical paths I'll call them right and the one concurrent critical path is getting the 8 stuff going and out to bid and done the second concurrent critical path is those punch list items that we need to get the building stable enough to that maintainable level they should be done at the same time um well that list that but not in the same bit not in the same bit Fair agree that list that or assessment that rich made and that was that was maybe what years ago 40 years ago I'm going to say you or take three sounds CL close that may need to be Revisited to make sure that it's still current that that absolutely I'm not saying it and I know we have funds for it but I don't think it should hold up what we're doing with Ada I think we should proceed with that now agreed I think we're all yeah yeah okay so the the decision point is um if we want to solicit a proposal from Mr pav um to work with the stakeholder group to identify um the updates that are necessary for that report which would then serve as a guiding document for the St preservation commission and this body for 10 or so years to come it'll tell us what's you know in five years look for patches in the roof in the northeast corner based on the tree cover I'm being specific but to explain there some very granular level guidance we'll have which will be helpful for um our engineer the HPC this body and the DPW um and that will tell us when and if we need to look for problems in the Horizon and what sort of professionals we may or may not need so I that's one decision point for us tonight um the if once we do our Mr pav fored report then we'll also be able to um begin to round out the scal work that would be necessary to complete the punch list as bet you point out it's not complete I don't think it's extensive but it isn't complete in its current form yeah and uh um if if we do uh get Professional Services to help with uh reassessing the needs of Bicentennial Hall is that covered under that bond that we have that $350,000 you can use it the soft cost portion to hire a professional you know you either have to get proposals from more than one or you and appoint them relatively fair and open or you could get go non-fair and open if you get a proposal from one of your plac with did he give you a an hourly rate or anything he gave me his hourly rate but that's not a complete rate sheet since he has a whole team they're all at different rates he's obviously higher than everybody else and honestly in in all honesty I'm not I'm not certain how much of the work that I mean I understand the report and I don't know if everyone's read the report but we can certainly circulated if you had the one Trac is referring to but I'm not so sure if everything that's on that list for arguments say waterproofing a seller or painting the building is is needs architectural input you know because you know it's not necessarily architectural nature so we'd almost if you if you want to get a proposal you'd almost have to identify the scope of work you're looking for a proposal for um either that or just take theity rate and then that not exceed that's really up to you guys go ahead if I can propose something there I would like you know I'd like to move forward to get a proposal to see what the scope of work would be right in the cost and to have a meeting um me Tracy Kristen Teresa Rich to sit down and kind of talk through what that concurrent path to would look like right and the steps that we would take right look at the updated punch list discern what requires P's eyes versus not right all those little details we give Macon in the green light move forward the adaa get the CDs together let's get out to bid right get that going and we'll continue to come back here to provide updates as we go and if there's a key decision point that arises bring it here you think I think it's a great plan I think it's a good first step too because we do need to flush out a few things um I feel I feel requesting proposal from Mr pav is the next right step um and that's just a proposal for the updated maintenance plan that initial site visit will start to identify what he's going to have to put in that document which is the product he be to produce for us but it'll also start to expose some of the things that may need to go in that other scope of work how we do that to your point said would depend on what those work items are okay depending on how it comes in would another proposal be needed he's a licensed professional if they decid to go non par open they wouldn't have to get a second proposal okay you that's good to know could ask Mt cron as a courtesy since he's already doing some work there that's really up to you and as a gut check if we need to yeah that's okay all right cool so we'll coordinate with Kristen coordinate with you get something going next couple weeks and we'll come back to D by an update plan at the next meeting that's great great thank you moving along this is the public comment on agenda items only portion of the meeting please stand identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record record please observe a time limit of 3 minutes for anyone in the public with the agenda item only yes evening Mr mayor council hello councelor I'm Brian Rice for all you that don't know me 45 Maple Avenue Captain fisherman wman um I took a look at your proposed res um coordinates for the doc so um couple of things have you consulted with the state does the state D consent with the restrictions that the pier you would have approve these restrictions for a public peer the Restriction of night fishing consisted with public trust Doctrine what is the Nexus between these restrictions and public right public resources to access to this public resource and Wyatt Burrow's ideal canot restrict access for fishing through unreasonable parking restrictions which you all may remember that case for example in Fair Haven bar loal activity already pered by the state doesn't the state fishing regulations permitting rules supersede the local rules that was kind of a rhetorical question as I know the answer so for me it's it's a dis it's very disconcerning that you guys would consider such restrictions on the doc we've talked a lot about it in private um that it just basically it's blatant that you don't want people those people to come fishing crab off the public dock I don't know who can you know if you put this in it's not going to hold up chances are um to restrict it to one cooler I'm not going to put my lunch with the lot crabs just doesn't make sense um I don't know if chief M govern come down and measure coolers to make sure they're 30 quarts um but I can go down with my 334 cooler full of soda smoke a cigar sit on my chair as long as I don't have a fishing router trebing equipment is the way that I read this so it just seems extremely discriminatory towards people that fish and crab a lot of these people that come to this town to do it are doing it for subsistence they don't come here it's not commercial I've heard that thrown around they're not coming to the dock to commercially crab and fish I know that 100% I'm friends with people that have been down there for over a decade for instance a guy comes from Jersey City his kids was four years old when he started coming down there would wake his old man up at four morning to come down to Fair Haven to fish off the public Pier I think we're losing a big part of our community I have talked to Mr Mayor about it I think to put a time restriction just like any other public open space in town I believe it's sunrise and sunset um would be adequate I do monitor the dock 247 I have a camera on my dock next door that happens to have a view of the dock the most use is me with my kids camp for nine weeks we have 12 campers every week like you all know about it some of your kids have been there um we clean it before and after every time I've talked to Teresa a few times we have the cans that go out they're lined there is a garbage issue down there but again it's it's it's a town issue that we need to you know kind of address and and we have right Teresa to a point um the cans get filled after the EMP the old chicken is disgusting I wish there was a way and I believe there is an ordinance in the state and I'll look it up that you cannot use mammals or birds or whatever as bait okay that may be something but again it's an Enforcement issue from the state not us just like it was brought up to possibly have a permit to fishing crab not going to the state won't approve it that's already governed by the state so again you know if anybody has questions they want to talk to me I'm an open book I know a lot about this stuff it's my life it's been my livelihood for 20 years I am a licensed Captain as most of you know um I've lived there for 54 years my family three generations I'm fourth generation in town had to deal with my old man last meeting I'm sorry for that but I watched the video so um you know a couple things came up the crab nets it's an issue right 20 foot crab net they need them to scoop the crabs down on the pilings simple solution that my son came up with put some PVC pipes down there and it can stick them in P right just like a rod holder on a boat it's not rocket science there I think there's some things that we can do to work together to make it more friendly to somebody walking down there right as as a as a town resident or whatever so I just wanted to bring that up I think that I'd love to work together come up with some solutions but I think this is way overly restrictive and and downright Prejudice I think it's it's just F thank you P Tom bran anyone else in the public the public comment agenda items only so I'd like to agree with Mr rice with the I think 900m is just kind of an arbitrary time sunight to Sunset like every other Park in municipality seems like a logical thing I think that's at least no one something the other thing other couple other things so on the consent agenda is approval of the DPW I just wanted to know where the bids came in in relation to our latest cost es Y and not consent agenda it's its own own item on Old business so it's not going to be under the yeah uh M mind have I answer absolutely so I I don't know why this is the time because I know it's coming up later but this is I was going to go do now that that wrap on your finger isn't meant to mean thing is it Thanksgiving um the lowest responsible bidder came in at 3.08 million cost estimate was 4.5 so 1.5 million less that takes our total cost avoidance at over $12 million compared to the original perfect so my next question was the cost estimate for the um environmental analysis environmental work that we're having done where does the $28,000 come into our estimate is that was it estimated or correct well that's resolutions been amended and the new copy we have um on the Das we already awarded the 284 along with the second version and all we're doing with the resolution that's on there tonight and uh the attorney was part of uh the telephone call with the attorney for the um engineer engineer and the architect is uh appointing uh col engineering design as a designated RP for the police department Cent and Department public work through duration of construction and or renovation projects and the col engineering design will submit an additional proposal for any future scope work that may be required in s translation what what how much are we paying are we paying 28,000 not already approved prior with what we're paying them to take care of the lsrp related items the aoc's at DPW the underground field TCH at PD the the let me just give you a little background the impetus of this was to identify a means and method to ensure that the architect and the lsrp have a clear line of delineation when environmental issu correct so that's why we identifi bringing the LSP as a professional K and professional for duration the project so there something that comes up out of scope environmentally that was not identified would then be addressed in a separate proposal we're not approving any additional fund now nothing else this is this should have been included in somebody's estimate it was previously back in I forget what month it was but yeah the 285 was the amount not SE it was awarded on 4723 the that in in both's estimate for environmental services and whatever else is separate it wasn't in Eli cost estim but it was in our total budget right that we had right where we broke out both hard cost and soft cost that's how we did to compar to the 12 million cost W aw yeah my last good question question is about the it says here brush leaf and brush program can we are we adopting a new policy procedure program so public comment on the procedure yeah I don't know what it is I'm going to dive into that more on that I want there will be comments on that I'll I'll provide a good background of the last 10 months thank you very much thank you Bill anyone else in the Public Public comment on agenda items only Alison is anyone else sir I just want to touch base on the sunrise to sunset component of what you both said there I me we talked a little bit that about that um I I think a set time was something chief that you recommended most part down there somewhere 9:00 80 9:00 like find better I don't think you Sun at 8:30 so you're 9:00 fine half hour after sun set is fine but they could be there 9:00 tonight and the sun set at 4:30 so there's not we just don't really pretty hard yeah but then again the what going to finish my comment on um is to me this is the starting point if we feel as if this is too restrictive or we feel it's not restrictive enough I think we're we're going to look at this in six months it's more likely once the summer starts to see you know because that's when there'll be more action down there to see what the impact is positive or negative and then at that point if we need to Pivot and change something we'll pivot and change something thing we talked about was 0500 to 2200 you can make which is 10:00 at night or 0600 to you know whatever my initial reaction on the 0500 0600 is I am trying to be respective of the noise uh in that neighborhood in the community um and if once again if if if we're wrong we we'll be wrong and we'll own it and we'll pivot and we we'll change it I'm not saying that we can't expand those hours in the future but also not committing that we can't shrink those hours I think we just we we want to we want to see it in play we had to start somewhere I asked the governing body I got to be honest there were there were six members of the governing body I think I got six different answers as far so I tried to average it out the best I could from a place where everyone would be somewhat comfortable and and uh we realize that there'll be some people that are ecstatic and some people are disappointed but we're going to try and get to the right place then the question is going back to my point I can go there at 6:00 in the morning if I don't have a fishing rout or cred is that is that is that what you're gonna do you're GNA invite me yeah maybe maybe I'll Jo you but that's my point is that you're making it restrictive to just one and if we see if we see if we see if we see an issue with that we will certainly pivot and and make the necessary changes but for from my um I I guess from my maybe it's a perception maybe it's wrong but from my experience in being down there I don't see I don't see people doing what you're saying they're doing I I I have a question about the should we discuss this though during the in ordinance good idea yeah um with no other public comments on agenda items only I'm going to move along to approval of minutes November 13th 2023 executive session motion second Alison might please have a roll call M yes yes no yes thank you uh moving along Old business resolution number 2023 282 and 283 before we move into these um does anyone have any questions just provide some background mayor um so are we G to vote on these separately yes each one will be a separate vote y um so 203-222 million I misspoke before I said 3.08 um again around 1.5 million less than the cost estimate um and then the other one as folks recall we were looking to see if it made sense to tie the alternate which was the Maple Avenue improvements the Maple Avenue improvements weed Sidewalk curban Road um going into it knowing that the GC that uh or that all these gc's that would been on it um aren't Road contractors um so that's just the the background mayor that I want to provide I don't have any other questions is there a recommendation related to that second one so it's clear to me obviously you want me to make the recommendation I I would recommend that we reject the Bap Avenue alter at this time in anticipation putting it out to bid and getting a better price well in the new year we'll certainly look at all of our options and go there I doost cost estimate came in at 250 and their B came in at7 yeah okay so okay I have a comment on both resolutions the first one is on the first resolution um in a separate conversation I had with the fough uh attorney uh phah Enterprises bid was rejected for technical issues I know Greg Canon was going to send them a letter should we include them in this list even though that that's on two uh 82 282 you mean a uh they submitted a bit I understand but you know when we had the followup phone call GRE was going to send them a letter telling that their B was rejected for technical reasons and it makes no matter to me I just didn't know it makes them look like they're the second bidder but in reality the top three biders are Hall Fitzpatrick and cron and you're awarding to Hall understood [Music] um baros I believe we should include them in the in the rejection um award in the award acknowledging that they were or low we underst understand they had a fa failed defect and that was the cause Okay and then I have another comment on the uh rejection of the off and B C and I spoke about this today we both have great respect for each other the resolution as written to me um sends a uh wrong message to the governing body the public in so much it appears as if we could have awarded the alternate bid to any of these biders and I just want to be very clear that the only uh bidder we can award the alternate bid to is is Hall construction because they were the lowest basement the alternate goes to the base B yes I've honestly never seen a rejection of a alternate just it's just isn't a war with the base but I'm fine if we're rejecting it but but the other thing I want to point out is in in this it actually says it's been recommended all bids be rejected on basis of the bids exceeded the engineer's estimate for this work and in reality we have three bids baros West End and shorelands that are below the engineers estimate and once again fers been disqualified so I just think if you looked at this resolution in and of itself it would appear as if to someone that wasn't familiar that we're rejecting all of these alternates and in reality we're only rejecting one alternate the one to whole construction attorne you comfortable with how it's written I am at this time yes thank you thank you um any other comments or anything before I ask for a motion no does anyone have a motion to approve 2023 d282 I'll make a motion to approve 2023 D2 22 second Alison may I please have a roll call Council memb call yes yes yes yes yes yes thank you uh 2023 283 do I have a motion to accept or reject the alternate bid I'll make a motion to reject the alternate bid from Paul second uh Alon I please have a roll call call yes yes yes yes yes yes but in reality we're rejecting all not just uh moving along 2023 leaf and brush program councilman La Bara thanks mayor um and I'll give some background just so we're all on the same page before I go into the update today um so the mayor established the brush and Lead committee uh we started meeting February yeah um and the the ultimate goal of that was to come up with an action plan to improve our brush and leaf process I'll call it um it focused on three different levers focused on communication focused on enforcement and it focused on a schedule change um the communication consisted of a myriad of themes and mechanisms the way that we're going to communicate with the public right getting those digital and physical touch points communication is going to be Paramount with this and that can mean 20,000 different things uh it can mean sending out a a mailer to everybody um and figuring out when that happens it could be online sessions it can be a Mir ideas we're going to work very very closely together on that I'll let you go into the communication more um code enforcement uh we spent a considerable amount of time on there um what what the committee realized was that folks value their time more um and so you know a$2 $250 fine um is not as um dissuasive disu right dissuasive thank you um as having to go to a court hears um the the the other key piece of this is the schedule um and what we landed at um as a brush and leaf committee and then ultimately governing body and then I'll go into the update um was we're going to have a uh spring and fall cleanup where you can put your brush and Lea to the curve like you normally do now um that spring cleanup is April the fall cleanup is October so that means between May and September um we're moving to a can uh for brush um that can would be if you if you opt into this that can would be purchased by the homeowner um but we are increasing the pickup service to two times as opposed to once right so doubling the service in those months um after the fall clean up in October takes place we move into a rolling leaf pickup where you put your leaves to the curb as you do now um there should be no pumpkins and Ms um but you move that to the curb um and right now everybody's leaves are picked up twice it's being doubled as well four times um since our last governing body meeting um we have further refined the schedule uh we have started drafting not we Betty an started drafting uh the calendar um and we've made Headway on the ordinance components which will be drafted and workshopped and introduced in the new year just because we're having time now um but that's okay um because we do have some time um we did spend time talking about the can um and I do want to ask this question and just get some feedback from the governing body um as far as color um we we say we we use this term green can um to help uh metaphorically capture what we're trying to do here um in the research though of these cans um there's a balance that needs to be struck both with the durability right because you're putting brush in the can availability um and then as well as what I'll call versatility um the original can that we found in Evergreen came in two different models right a less durable model and a more durable model um at the last govern meeting we talked about wheels so the um more uh durable item comes in Wheels but it doesn't come in the other grp only comes in Gray so the question is and and it's been very challenging looking at commercial Distributors and Home Depot and loads and fairen Hardware to identify a durable green can um because what I'm thinking is the last thing we want is to have a can that breaks frequently right it's got to withstand brush it's got to withstand somebody picking it up and put it in putting it down um we've talked about concerns around it not looking like everybody has their own can um so background update and where some updated guidance on the can needs to come in because as we discussed um the one key item we have to be cognizant of is supply chain right and we're going to be having a partnership with Fair Haven Hardware um that does mean you have to go to fa hard bu um but we will have a partnership with them um but if 500 cans are ordered 1,00 cans were ordered we want to give as much lead time as possible to get that in um we've talked about delivery um getting it to the homeowner making it as least friction as possible so looking at okay cool you asked the question so I want to make sure that that you had everything and up the SC I have a question how how close in color is the great hands the one we already have I'm so glad you asked that it just so happens that I come from fa print outs um so the first two that's the the gray brute with handles that's the same Evergreen so the one with wheels does not come in every green and we asked the manufacturer we did not ask the manufacturer if they would create a custom order for us one there's a price at that two sustainability of that um so I I can go get a price but I know that new molds and new colors and new tracks in a commercial line are fairly expensive um these are um really reasonable and then based on the discussions for the financial piece with Fair Hardware which I'm not going to go into here yet until everything's solidified um we should have better deals than Home Dep have probably cheaper good I gray I think green did you find out whether they could do a limited run custom mod I didn't I didn't I sent them a note but I haven't heard back from them I can I can follow up with Rubbermaid um and we could do a price comparison my recommend you know I don't think there's a right answer here I don't think there's a right and wrong answer I think we're gonna try this and anything think there'll be be improvements for next year but the the the Evergreen makes it harder to have um you uh inconsistency right by having the Evergreen brute it avoids inconsistency more than the gray I agree that's my my concern is gray is so easily obtainable in so many different styles and manufacturers um and I I also don't want our residents calling us Petty when they get a summons because they're not using yeah the right can even though they're both 32 gallon gray cans and that's been my only concern with this um entire program all along is this can and getting it right uh maybe we could just take another look and see if there's another option and I'll help with that I appreciate so do so we'll do two things one I want to have a meeting with Communications to dive in and come up with a wholesome plan on December 18th right or at Leisa dra and then the second thing mayor if you and I can Circle up and then I'm sure you probably have more experience than I doing this so we can see what it looks like is that cool yeah perfect thank you thank you so are we gonna well on brush and leaf uh I appreciate that we're going to circle up and talk about Communications but I think we need to do that here for a minute if there still on BR and LEF where are we well we're not we're not like in a uh you want to talk about it now I mean we're going to get right to Communications a second but if you want to touch on something absolutely related I really think that the communication thing is uh this program which let me back up huge fabulous program this is a big Improvement we're going to increase service without increasing cost we're going to reduce the amount of waste it's in the street and therefore in our gutters storm water drainage system and the river it's all good um however we we really need to do the community corly the enforcement alone isn't enough for this thing to have a successful launch um and even if we do the communications really really really well um it's still we still might have flaws and issues with it it's that it's that complex that the communications on this program so I just want to dog your a thought which is we've got a fabulous communications director who wears many many many hats and we all know a little bit about what what ban does and Kris and I work closely with her we know how how good she is and what she does I just need to dog ear for us um as the governing body the very real possibility that we might need to either carve out some extra time for ban which I don't you know Teresa would have to advise this is that is even possible or to bring in some specialized uh support to work at Betty an's Direction um this was touched on at the last Outreach and Communications meeting um but Visual Communications is a is a is a domaining craft it's a specialized space set and she's great at it we is this is a this is a very discreet assignment it has a start and end and it's a critical program so getting this communicated properly and in the window of time that we have available is the main thing I really want to stress here in case we decide we need to put some money towards it and I believe I've copied personnel and perhaps commun a chairs on this who Happ to be the same person and I really feel very strongly that um provided betan does as uh previously discussed and requested and she allocates two hours a day down here away from the front window yeah to work on nothing but Communications I don't think we have a problem is she getting that I feel very supposed to be I know she's supposed to be giving myself that the clerk a copy of that schedule that she works out with Christie um I have to look and see if I've gotten it through this week yet but at the end of the day I I'm confident that if they agree with let's just say it's 11: to1 you know Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday because Christy doesn't work on Fridays that would be eight hours solidly dedicated communication I think she be fine um betan you know does a lot of things but trying to do that while you're sitting at that window answering the phone is it's just too distracting you can't my point precisely I know how you have to stop your thought process to engage with them she's very very very good at that public engagement pie I don't want to I don't want to lose her in that but for this particular I have those emails I'll share them with I don't need the emails I really want to be clear about how important this is bettyanne is our gal but she has a lot of Demands on her time so I think we need to decide at a certain point not now not tonight I'm only raising this now so that we're all on the same page and you said we'll get together and we look at come but this was discuss at our Communications meeting take it's hard it's really hard she doesn't take advantage of it and it's encouraged so she just has to say girls it's not hard if you just set up a schedule andol it and I will make sure that's done and I'll talk offline too I don't know if there's any opportunity to supplement what she does in the same way that we ask for volunteers from the community for all different types of committees and stuff I'm sure there would be people in the community that would love to volunteer to help us with a special project like that so that's a really great idea can can I just say one thing yes you can volunteer to help I will definitely help you that's not a problem um but but I am I'm going to need a lot of information as a citizen as a resident because I'm still confused what goes in the can uh I get confused between what's brush what what's allowed what's not allowed so that would have to be very clearly defined for me and also the fact that we have an ordinance on the books that says you cannot see these cans from the street so residents that choose to participate in the program need to be aware that they're going to have to find a place to store this can my only other thought and I it briefly with Drew and I didn't get a chance to talk to Andrew maybe he did was you know if we're really looking for a specific can um you know I I think we've run into some difficulty if we um from a proprietary standpoint name the you know whether it's rubber made or Fel or whoever makes it I'm not too sure we were allowed to doop an that said that but I'll suffer the B if we're not paying for it okay you can't require them to purchase a specific company it would have been in the ordinance but I can say it's a 32 gallon yes Evergreen and look there's there's there's communication for the program which is different than the ordinance if the ordinance specifies the green can but the program says here's the can that's correct and we have a partnership with and the easiest way to get it is by dialing X that's the program we're trying to communicate exception though we can't if we can't make a law then we can't guarantee consistency across the burel and that's when you start seeing a mismash of colors and purple yeah color but how do we even know which can is being picked up for brush if we don't have it like we know what can is picked up for recycling we know what can is being picked up for trash but because our guys are picking it up yeah our guys are doing based on talk offline about that and just the can that was the goal of the worksh right some followup okay moving along uh Finance councilman Rodriguez I know we have our our meeting tomorrow you have anything no nothing additional on that but um PD and should I move on to PD and fire yeah fire OEM yes sir um I won't steal any Thunder from facil ities other than say the it's really exciting to see the uh progress going on at the police department um building site um I know there was a lot of work going on there um today specifically um so I'll leave it at that I'll turn that over a little later to councilman La Bara um and then uh last week with um fire we met with uh with the number of Chiefs um and uh discuss maintenance and Capital items um timing on issues including um hose Replacements um that are out of uh compliance tires that need to be changed um these are really large and expensive tires um engine maintenance um their boat slip uh radios a number of things so we're coming together with a a plan and a number of uh items that will live on beyond my time on the council um but we're uh laying the groundwork to make this all uh make this all happen so I'll turn to councilman LA barara to add anything he wants to to that no spot on and you know I appreciate Chris because we spent an hour and a half with the fire last week and he came off Paris and now he's six so fire chief's got sick but just kidding that's not a knock of the fire ch um but I just appreciate it yeah all right we are now going to move to personel and Parks and Recreation I can not be happier yes to be looking at Council CH let's get oh thank you thank you happy to happy and grateful to to be participating uh tonight thanks for living me and Allison um just quickly on Personnel we still have a couple of uh openings on the DPW team so we'll be looking to fill those as soon as possible um we are making um some additional changes to library Staffing and we should have those updates by the the next meeting on the 18th of December um we have a couple of additional staffing issues to discuss and executive session this evening but that's really it for personnal for right now um lots of exciting stuff going on in R um we did not have a November meeting gance but our next meeting will be taking place on Tuesday the 5th at 7:30 um in terms of key dates we have the house doc the excuse me the holiday house decorating contest um all homes must be registered by December 8th which is coming up um flyer with all of that information went out today and you can reg you register and you can V for that um for the best house decorated for the holidays online as well um Santa in the park and the Holiday Stroll will take place on Friday December 8th uh 5:30 to 7:30 at Memorial Park uh Santa photo specifically specifically will be taking place from 6:00 to 7:30 that night um also very excited about the manura lighting which will be taking place on Sunday December 10th at 4:30 in Memorial Park everyone's encouraged to join as well um and then we will be participating in um the Santa calls again this year I'm not going to go into um too much detail for for the little ears at home but um we're looking for volunteers to help with that initiative as well so lots of good things coming down through recck thank you councilwoman Hoy uh moving along planning board councilman c um actually nothing really has happened since our last planning board meeting our next meeting is uh December 12th uh the agenda has yet to be determined and um that's all I have for you did you do the extension for subdivision that was at the 15 right HRI yeah it was good yeah that was that was passed yeah the extension I think it's 60 days yes okay 60 days extension yeah thank you uh moving along engineering DPW burough facility Zoning Board of adjustment uh zoning board adjustment no update since the last meeting uh last government body meeting next son board meetings 07 December um switching over to burrow facilities I'm stoked for tonight um with the DPW resolution um we'll look to award the fuel tanks on the 18 December um the other piece here is we're we're finalizing the auctions date dates um we improved that at the last government body meeting uh we're sliding slightly to the right um doesn't impct time or schedule um and the other piece we're still running to ground we talked about the License Plate Reader to adding that on to the security camera I'm still under ground details price cost so I'm hoping to come with with an update at the uh 18 December meeting um on P Community Center is that driven by today so it's like the community center is almost down completely um the eses inment went great uh got our report back on that obviously before they did the demo Mr Mayor Betty and did a great job with communication they're moving towards the slab pouring I want to come back to something because we talked about that week right remember we we've had a special meeting to approve a week earlier I mean we are up just against the weather and the bid speec doesn't call out to adding any freeze into the concrete one is costly and two the archit doesn't recommend it so like that one week is helping us um what else um once the community center's down which is by tomorrow then they'll um start working on the foundation for Community Center temporary bathrooms are gone um our appropriation was supposed to go to the house floor but then got pulled U not our specifically the the group that in hopeing to get an update soon on that uh the lsrp we hit the resolution tonight on that and uh we walk through with the historic commission Lisa and Pat Drummond um we went through it um looking at all the different items that we want to make sure are saved the one item I would say probably um of critical significance is the original window from the school so that top is exactly yeah the fan looking yeah that is a nice window yeah um so we're in discussion to find a proo means to have that professionally removed before the buildings demolish um we need to figure out where it makes sense to go um but it's one of the oldest pieces in the our building so not those but those are going in the garage we're saving them and we' replicated them I think we're I think we're I don't think the same ones are going those two that are currently in there will go in the police garage we're going to save them in the police garage and then there's two replicas going on the outside on okay um so that covers that um engineering DPW um there's an entire vehicle maintenance overhaul happening right as everybody recalls our vehicle um maintenance point of contact left um so that's underway it's a huge effort marter Pond work is ongoing um we're 7 Days in to 10 days um some discussion of of what the remaining work will look like as far as area to cover um they removed I think they have nine dumpsters removed of materials so there were six removed two are on site and there's bunch left to it so we you had the six plus the two plus the one I get nine um but they and then they also edged around the entire uh not the entire part of the periphery got rid of all of uh I forget the material I call them punks because you can light them on fire yeah and they no they get rid of the mosquitoes um no somebody help me cat tail thank you you can actually dry them out and then they actually repel the they remove the Cs yeah the northern section not over by button not by button yeah and what was the reason for that because we don't want MOS they're considered invasive species to the pond and not you know they would move just as any other vegetation um might want to consider helpful list of non non invasives help stabilize the banks something for probably commit level yeah and our next meeting 7 December um Hansen Cooney we we're starting discussion when we can pave trees not coming down just want to say it again um went over there the other day looks good um um get going on the Fair Haven Road project uh Fair Haven Street liting go out to bid and then um waiting to get confirmation of the micro projects to to move to the next phage right trees were down we're done with the exception two um so we can get forward on the prioritize list so that's everything from me mayor thank you councilman bur communication community outreach Council mcole thank you mayor um Outreach and Communications continues to support and facilitate the bruss Le communication program um we're really building a bicycle while we're riding it a little bit um but we do hope to be able to have something I'd like to bring it here to this body sort of test the work product um get some feedback at the next meeting um we're also spending a little bit time on internal Communications and Betty is doing a phenomenal job keeping ahead of ongoing construction um she's working closely with chief chief sends great updates she gets them out right away jerice is doing a really great job of keeping all of that so to construction pration doar so just complement um I think we all knew some months ago that we would be in a really big wave of work was all happening simultaneously which is going to put an extra special burden on um FM but um it's flu it it's happening and I just want to acknowledge that the environmental commission is working on their annual report um next environmental Round Table will be in January and they're currently collecting input from really anyone but uh communities boards and commission for uh what the anticipate would be an update to the ER the environmental resource inventor is the catalog of um data points having to do with our natural resources for um there's a we're going to be receiving the Grant from that the shade tree commission has been U released be heading and I just want to acknowledge the leadership and forsight they've been really tracking that grant for a while and um obviously that's the work of this body to get that Grant application out and now it's in so I just wanted to acknowledge the sh commission the grants committee has to report that we did not receive the uh Transportation Planning grant for the guided walking tour unfortunately um we also do not receive a formal application to or an invitation to submit a formal application to Noah also unfortunately this is what happens sometimes in the gr process but we will stay on it we're hoping to submit to the governing body um a summary of the M County's 2024 open space Grant um which maybe include a planning grant for open space planning as well as um um inclusive playgrounds uh the business district would like to welcome Adrien on new business at 8813 River Road mod 39 it's a women's apparel shop she's done popups around here very very very well received and her doors are now open she's the neighbor of green line um underneath Clementine um Kristen already touched on the Holiday Stroll that's a partnership between the Business Association and um wck and everyone should come out and check it out the business put out of a lovely offering to amplifi the evening and we kids love it it's a wonderful family evening um and you'll see in River Road books this small plug the historic Association had printed note cards if you're looking for that perfect little stocking stuffer um note cards featuring by Bicentennial Hall um as a lovely gift idea proceeds will help to support the historic Association and preservation of Bicentennial Hall great thank you Council Nicole moving along introductive ordinance [Music] to address um and I can appreciate the current uh urgency around it we might be ready for the next spring and summer and in anticipation of the council's uh will to um acquire 21 per Haven Road I I'm in this pickle it's a little bit of a dilemma am I'm wondering where our regulatory um Authority ends because I um I feel like this is well where it begins in that perhaps this is a better way to ask because I see us trying to regulate certain things that are specific to certain recreational use the crowding and fishing the people who are crowding and fishing can't smoke can't bring a chair can't light a flame I mean they're all reasonable things that perhaps you don't want people to do but I I guess if cing and fishing is regulated by another body what how are we I'm wondering if we're stumbling into potential lawsuit I'll just put it right I don't believe so um we've been going over reiterations of this ordinance for probably a few months now and we've discussed it um we've removed anything regarding permits or licensing um from that as that is a u regulatory function of the state um so at this point I believe that it's an enforceable ordinance and I don't believe it would be able to be I anyone could s well I don't want us in a lawsuit over and smoking right we can prohibit smoking on public land we we can should and do privit smoking and alcohol and oan flame on public l i mean three of the five things here are already prohibited on public land coolers not so much but neither a launch shares prohibited and other public lands but if we don't want coolers on the duct then that should probably apply to everybody not just listen I'm not a lawyer but I I I do see where we're kind of stretching a little bit here well this is going to be you know the cooler is not just for people that are fishermen or crabber like crabbers um I believe that it's not it's not you know specific to a specific type of person I believe it's General and it serves the government's purpose here to regulate what goes on to the do to make sure that it's not a nuisance to the public and it's not a nuisance to the neighbors and um it all relates to certain I guess goals of the ordinance um I don't see anything where it would be you prohibitive of a certain type of person um I get while cing or fishing no coolers or ice boxes larger than 10 quartz and I'm I'm not trying to pick on this I I want to take the steps that we need to take to protect the quality of life of that neighborhood absolutely on balance a maintain access to the public now to me the public is a much smaller idea however because it's Green Acres property we have an obligation to provide public access to a much larger I'm wondering where look it says right here did did you prepare this okay can I ask a question uh you know upon reading this uh latest iteration of the fishing and c fishing and crabbing ordinance if you look at chapter I think it's chapter 9 sections 62 through 66 they all say wild crabbing or fishing yeah yet it was my understanding that all of these activities are pretty much prohibited anyway Open Flame um mattresses pitching a tent um I think I think that' be open consuming products smoke you know smoking I think that's PR they good in the Parks but this is a new section within the Parks and Recreation of chapter specifically talking about ficient in cravity okay so it's not if there's a specific issue you know I would definitely like to address it um know you could just take out while crabing or fishing yeah I think that's the part that makes well the one the one 1964 um wouldn't work for LA right you know the idea there is people shouldn't be bringing their lawn chairs on the dock you know scraping up our dock there's plenty of seating there there's no reason for additional chairs to be there um well I think that's Betsy's point then why are we just saying no because what I'm saying is it says in all the park so you're going to tell someone they camp with their lawn chair to watch a soccer game we say at dock then right is it is it possible to have a separate thing for the dog you're asking the wrong person that's this I mean no like a separate a separate ordinance for the dog because for example like um open flames you never want to have that period doesn't matter if it's doing crabbing and fishing hours like at Night Never I think somewhere here was said no mattresses ever um some of these behaviors right but that's issue dog I think that's what says while crabbing are fishing we're talking about water firm property what if the person sorry I I kind of had a similar reaction what if the person is crabbing and fishing and then by the time that it's 9900 p.m. they decided to put away the crabbing and fishing stuff and put their mattress out and go look at the stars and the do then what that that's part of my I think this is kind of a good starting point and maybe we should go ahead with it but I kind of feel like we should have a different itation of this by next year and come up with something there could absolutely be another ordinance that you draft regarding you know a specific location um you know anything with regards to access to water I mean there is you know how many different access points do we have that are public a lot a bunch marter right so there's there's there's other ordinances but this is addressing an issue that I believe that the mayor council felt that there was it was it was a specific you know issue that we were trying to address here and that was the crabbing or fishing at all times in the day or night and and that's the balance I'm just mentioning you just had a resident that said we're being too restrictive I'm just mentioning that you're the things you're saying is being Waring you're opening it up to everywhere in every situation you should never have an open should not be cooking with cooking stoves like I've seen on the dock ever that should be like a 24 hours prohibition uh the same thing with a mattresses and we can certainly create ordance to address you know other you know I also want to take a step back real quick right this the everything included in here is based on the feedback that one we gave and two came out of the direct conversations of the residents over there so the the initial language of this was far less right inclusive and then after we had the original meeting I don't know if it was that October and they started providing all the anecdotes just how many mattresses are down there the anecdotes of the open Flames the anecdotes of that so this document was directly I'm going to say influenced from the residents who live in that area um and then we even had the conversation two meetings ago on make it only the dock and then this governing body decided just to kind of go back in time a little bit to make it more open than just the dock but treat it to crabbing and fishing right it's one thing to talk location specific versus activity specific this seeks to focus on the activity that has been collectively assessed to cause the greatest amount of friction points at the dock so what I but and a fully track you all the way uh I just think that there's a difference between getting public input and what we're legally allowed to regulate I I have concern that that we are regulating very specific behaviors associated with a very specific recreational use that I'm not sure we have the legal Authority regulate he's saying you do though I know but how are you what's the you can't play on the tennis courts at after 7 p.m. I mean you're you're telling the tennis players they can't play it's a very specific use that you're regul I mean we have to look at also don't say to them and by the way don't bring your backpack you know and and because it's not an issue it's not creating an issue we're we're it would be it would be like telling someone on a baseball field like don't swing we make a rule just for baseball fields don't swing your bat in the on Deck Circle because you might hit someone in their in their head and and we don't make a rule for the whole town like don't do that on button with drive because it's not really an issue on button with drive it's an issue in the on Deck Circle so right now we have an issue in in with CRA with with crabbing and fishing that's creating a nuisance for our community and we're addressing that nuisance I agree with L and I agree with you I I don't have a problem expanding this I think we have to the right balance but we also have to start somewhere we think that we're going to have the perfect ordinance on day one I I think is not really um a reasonable idea this is we are um going into the shallow end here and I don't think we should jump into the deep end I think we should start and see how how the reaction is and if if we all of a sudden have a bunch of people with giant coolers on the dock that aren't crabbing and fishing we can we can adjust to that it's just not an issue right now uh I have a question are in um chapter nine Parks and Recreation on vars are there other sections that address alcohol beverages or or or open Flames I don't know about the Open Flame but there's definitely with alol and sming well smoking yes absolutely one22 right so I just want to make sure that that not being exclusionary and that we are including other areas other Park areas are subject to the same regulations but we're not saying we're only saying if you're going fishing or crabbing you have to limit to X Y and Z we're not saying you can't come here to fish or crab there's other regulations and of the six different items hours is not a question right we can set thats alcohol beverage es obviously that's contained within our entire Municipal Code open Flames it protects it you know it's a concern obviously um and smoking prohibited so I mean basically what I'm just assuming we're questioning the tents lawn chairs and mattresses prohibited and the use of coolers they're not saying you can't use the coolers they're just saying you have to limit the size of the coers as far as reinforcement I don't know how the chief and his officers are going to enforce and and start measuring coolers but at the same time you're not excluding a person you might be excluding a size of a product but these are not protected classes these AR people that can you know argue that were're discriminatory in any way well that goes to the heart of my question and that you've said it better than I did um they're not is are crab is crabbing and fishing protected no as a crib you're allowed we're not saying you can't crib fish on public we're not but we're not saying they can't do that these are all ancillary or you know accessory uses having a mattress on on a on a dock I mean want matches so I'm not I don't argue with that the only thing that we might say is you know the size of a cooler but I I don't see any way that the burrow would be liable for a lawsuit based on the size of a cooler I don't know either this is why I'm trying to really understand it make sure we're not and I don't know how you know for sure that it's not that there's not some interest group out there that's going to say hey I'm allowed by law to come down here and crab and fish and by the way I'm a smoker and and I brought my lunch because I'm going to be here for four hours but we're not saying that you can't we're not you can't come down to our our you know access points to CRA or fish we're just saying you can't bring you know your your you know sedic mattress and put it on the and sleep there which I've witnessed for you know myself cering tense these are all things of concern to the burrow and you you said coolers they might be the only one but I don't know any organization that is going to come down here and say I cannot believe you would not let us use a 15 Court cooler or however they may and I'm I'm hopeful you know I I don't I don't know if 10 quarts maybe that's the wrong size again I think it's a starting point I I thought looking at it it was the correct size to bring a bring a lunch and bring your bait your chicken or whatever it might be if not I'm hopeful that they're going to make use of our unbelievable businesses in the burough of Fair Haven you know you want some lunch you got Lop down the street you know yeah so you know you you got you got Jack Goan stand you got tavolo across the street you got over easy kitchen these are all plugs for fair businesses uh make make use of it says per person so you can have Dad and the dad has the bait cooler and the sun has the on family so we'll test it and see what happens I think it's a good starting point I mean like I said I would like to see the Bess you know not there but 24 hours a day yeah just to make sure right um but um I think it's a good way to start because we were competing on some de regulations such as permitting and things like that pering licensing issues and that's really where the the D gets because then you're excluding to someone that doesn't have either the capability or the ability to register for a permit or app for license we not saying that we're saying hey come enjoy our our our doc however we have some rules yeah no open Flames obviously a concern um to the burrow so do we have to get any kind of do we have to run this pass anybody okay can I ask a couple questions sure um so have you you've obviously this has been shared with you you have and you understand what we're trying to achieve abely um up till now I mean some of these things are not new right to most of us who live in Fair even we aware um especially after Co it kind of became aware of some of the stuff that was going on down there what has it been like for the forest what what happens now they feel like they can't do anything well you gotta have like like you said if you want to use a do and fish you have to have some kind of rules right now you know nobody really knows what the rules are are the rules they're not there's nothing posted so once we get this ordinance and you'll figure out how we're going to post it so it's obvious so if you go down there somebody violating say here's a sign that doesn't mean that everybody's going to summons that doesn't mean that we're not going to be reasonable like you said how big is a cooler 10 or cooler we're not going to measure but you know what a tech work cool should be right it's not the Big two-handed Mo so um I think it's all like reasonable right what's reasonable and you need to post it you have to ask my rules because if you don't have a rule there's nothing to back it up let me ask you a quick question scenario over the summer if you went down and you saw a couple of kids and makeshift I don't know I didn't see any mat whatever it is a sleep situation or play pen and a little stove going and um laund yeah open a yeah a fresco dining what now what would one of your offers do you talk about after the ordinance or no before before the ordinance well if it was unsafe say they over flame I I would assume they telling with the flame but other than that um maybe have move along with there is kind of hanging out there not in the way or something you know everybody has to share the dock but I don't know if really much you would do with it you and what if they had a bottle of wine well Apple's not allowed on any right so yeah right yeah has has that been happening well there's you know I I don't know exactly what has but there's been some issues down there with the people that fishing craing right I mean I would say 99% the other time it's not we have issues with the uh high school kids get dress you go down the thing that's more of a noisy thing but you know with there's a mess people are staying there way past the hours problem getting nois pl we trying to but we have to have something to back it okay so you have not you don't feel you've had what you need in order to address it right if you don't have anything to back it it's very tough you can you can always ask anybody to you know move along or something but at the end of the day if you don't have any ordinance or rule to back it there's not much you can do so like you're talking about lawsuit you you're actually better off have ordinates or something to back it where if you don't have anything to back you tell them move along like the person that was laying on the mattress there's no real rule like I think that if I remember correctly I think they were say okay no prob the attack on the left I don't think the problem but at the same time as they said no I'm not leaving what's the next step right right so having a rule or ordinance actually be the oppos actually help because then if you end up having a thing that turns into an arrest and everything you have something to back it where right now if that person said no I'm not moving I don't know what are you doing they don't right there's nothing to back it so that's why you have to have something in there so I I think it's actually without it and we get a call go have them move along which we had those calls and luckily they did because they didn't and would and then yeah ended up telling they will you arrest them or something give you have nothing to back at the end of the day so I I would say it's almost the opposite you have ordinance that the attorney reviewed and said it's legal and you can do it then I think it's better to have something there thank you like I said 99% of the time it's you know has to do with that certain time of year crabing and fishing is really what the issues are there you know the other really not what would you want to see posted on the sign well I think we have to you know kind of uh uh take that dat we can't put the or whatever it is no you know the hours uh no over play basically what make itly a lot little sizes no mattresses yeah right now we kind of like said there's really nothing po start posting some signs right yeah it's hard to go tell somebody something that not post well especially since we know there's certain things already prohibited we should have signs and they have a sign and say you know her ordinance whatever the ordinance com you know and again it's be reasonable right everybody's GNA be treated the same doesn't matter if you're res or not but that doesn't mean you can't be reasonable either right nobody's looking to go down there quiet they not any issue when you have an issue have the back and we don't right now so that's why I would almost op it without it you're probably more over liability with it right unless unless there's some unless we're overstepping and I rely on the guidance of our the last question thank you very much Chief um the last question has to do with the one specific section um that deals with special events and weddings spors weddings we refer to but I think we have to leave it a little open to other events is including but not lied I suggested we just leave it open to as posted by the burrow we don't generally approve weddings or give them the dot individually um but it's usually like you know when we have concerts or other things going on down there that if we post a sign that says do closed due to special events we're good to go and is that can we can we do that eliminate access for crabbing and fishing is a permitted recreational use allowed on Green Acres I'm just I'm going to defer to Andrew but I think it's fair to say that while we have 100 people on a do for a concert it doesn't take you know too much to stretch the fact that we can close the balance of the dock to other activities than viewing the coner it's just same you know same effort when we go to close Fair Haven fields and there's certain areas that you can't access you take out of you know there's a permit that's taken out and you know we close part of Fair Haven fields for Fair Haven day it's the same thing you're you're limiting someone's access to use because you need a ticket to enter yeah the facility to enter the fields we don't have that many special events there but it is very difficult when we do when people are trying to come and go with that it's I would say there's almost an amount of danger to it you know you got people sit up in that dock Andy buy coolers and Nets and this and that it's you know it's only probably an hour and a half 2our time frame but during that time frame we should be able to close it yeah that sounds compl it does sound reasonable I'm just I'm concerned that this is a protected group and I don't want to use the wrong phrase but um with the permitting at the D does it does it protect the right to access in some way which is you know I've asked my question in several ways and you've answered it thank you very much anything else on the for ask for a motion I don't have a motion to approve motion second Alon I please have a roll call call abstain OE yeah H yes yes NE yes Rodriguez yes thank you moving along consent agenda uh resolutions 2023-2024 I ask for a motion uh does anyone want anything separated no um on my just two things to point out 287 that's the resolution we talked about before with the lsrp right specific to the three facilities um and then just call the amended version on the yep a copy of and then just calling out 279 the police vehicle um which had a 12 monthly time and that's all I wanted to highlight mayor thanks does anyone have any comments I just want point out that there was a revised certification of funds in the police vehicle signed by calling lap the total amount was 54 45672 which is three one-year payments of 1815 24 uh one question had to do with um resolution 22 um 288 budget transfers 2023 budget transfers was um was the finance committee involved in that yeah that's it m I only have one comment on the vouchers and I'm gonna you know I you know I was not here uh for the session last meeting excuse me I just want to be clear that the 48519 that's on uh the agenda tonight on the vouch for Serenia and Edwards and Nolan um is really uh for the review of um everything that leads up to the memo that you reviewed in executive session that we paying a prog a share of that um I didn't discuss it with Mike Woodward it's ahead of time I have had prior yes I have had PR discussions with you know some professionals that you know you know i' be inclined to want to see a proposal of this before we actually you know pay the invoice um but you know I I'll I'll leave that to the governing body if you look at the backup for that Professional Services it starts on 1020 10223 finalize letter of the client to secure operation with some Consortium to expend Consortium funds related around four and every charge from there through um let's see through 1020 um is all related to that same memo and and anything that Mike Edwards did leading up to issuing that ter that's a great that's a great call out thank you for I mean like I said I I you know what are the dates again um the dates on the on the invoice that came from my Ed's office start on sorry j CL the work starts on 102 23 and it goes through 1020 23 and my initial inclination was to to ask you to you know hold it from the bill list and and give me a chance to speak to Mike Edwards but once again I wasn't at executive session at the last meeting when you discussed that memo so I didn't want to take that upon myself without just pointing it out to you and let you make your decision on that well what are you recommending you can approve it as submitted in the AM of 48519 for the work that I just described or you can hold it and ask me to discuss it with Mike Edwards and you know get a further explanation of of you know the scope of work and and the Burrow's progr share that when I'm assuming to all of their clients I don't recall us making a decision and nor authorizing I would recommend thank you sir for putting this out I don't recall her bringing something like this up which gives me a little cause in approving that specific bill can we can we approve the rest of the vouchers with the exception of that yes you can and uh I'll just do real quick total new Total dropping out that amount with the the understanding that it may be back on in a future agenda I'll get an explanation from you know Mike Edwards share it with the governing body and then you can make your own determination can we have either either if it's not on the voucher list at the at the next meeting can we have an update if it's okay I I anticipate it will be I don't I don't um anticipate that my exchange with Mike Edwards will will be will take a long time all right so we're talking 2023 d does anyone else have anything else cons uh we're talking 20232 79 through 2023-2024 104 5858 which is on the total for the bills list and I'm going to subtract the um seran bill in the amount of 48519 so he had a let me just repeat it back in L's terms he had a PO initially cut he used part of that PO to address he didn't have a separate po cut this meeting usually when I usually when I ask for their input on you know a professional service um I I will either if if it's routine I'll just pay it off of you know their open po or if it's something specialized like this I'll at least look for an explanation and explain it to at the very least the finance committee before I do the okay are we concerned at all and I don't know if we should talk about that I don't I don't want to say my comment I don't think there's any harm in holding it you know Mike's a reasonable guy and I think if we okay I'm fine with that and I somebody can double check me but I have the 4104 5858 minus uh 4 59 for a new total of 4 104 03339 for the vouchers right uh do I have a motion to approve as discussed motion second Alison may I please have a roll call yes yes yes yes yes thank you Department reports anything on that do I have a motion to accept the report is submitted motion to accept with a thank you thank you all in favor I anyone opposed okay uh next up uh good of the burrow please stand identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record all I have a couple of questions um Fields Cal commit metet last week um there were a couple questions that that came up one Tre said we wanted to confirm where the curves be placed um by when we do the fa Ro construction when we get to the the fields and by the cherry trees where the Curve will be placed there and based on burough Engineers prior um discussions on that matter the answer is yes okay that's what I hopefully those plans will be approved by the Gover body before the go bid and I'm sure they'll be discussed with input from the public and the appropriate committees before we so I just wanted to mention that that's something that um you know maybe a good idea to to communicate to the F National Community when we do get to that point I think they do have some concerns about uh making sure that curbs are placed to reduce run off there and if that's really what we want to do just make sure that to coordinate that when we got that point and we will we will yeah there was also talk about putting a um possible cross walk in there so it has come up before I'm sure um it will be addressed be good to have them involved on that process just because they really take care of you know help us take care of those trees um the second one is there's a couple openings I was just wondering whether maybe we could advertise it it seemed like the committee did not have any particular names in mind as people who might want to be it went out last week on multiple make sure y it's already gone out I'm I'm deep in the process already of appointments and if if I do fall short uh I'll certainly reach out and look for more y um and the only last point is um they have repeatedly asked for two hours per month of um borrow time so that somebody can sit down and address some of their questions I think that that would be a good idea because there are things they want to do for example like if they want to put in an order for a certain job with the gpw I know there's some paperwork they need to fill out which is a little bit of a different process than they've done before and I think they still don't fully understand how to get the process going so that they can make their request to have the help them with some things some projects and make sure that that's well coordinated if they could call someone for 20 30 minutes per week or even if it was every other week I think that would be a helpful thing um you know what you know it could be a sign someone like panne or whoever that might be that they can call and be the person that can help them answer some of their questions I think that would help uh them better plan with the borro with the the projects who try to work on I think that's something that's come up several times I just want to mention that again you know what they're looking for is akin to what we give the different commissions and some the secretary health I will tell you that myself my qpa the clerk's office my uh liaison to engineering and Public Works we're fully accessible to them and answer any all questions that they have in and I'll even say the last time they had to do an input for who did it for them you know when they're doing their volunteers day we put it out for communications you know we explain to them you know they have to use the volunteer uh waiver form like I I if I get an email from Carolyn Ferguson if it takes me more than 12 hours to respond I will be shocked right and I have countless ones and depending on who the appropriate person is I would copy that if I'm not sure of it answer I'll get it from the CFO or from the qpa or whoever needs to get it from yeah it may might be one one thing that might be helpful just to be maybe assign someone who who they can call um I don't know every week for a certain amount of time if if there are any questions if there are none they don't have to you say they you've assigned me to it because if I take for org sake and I'm not going to name an employee but I take an employee and they don't know the answer to that question you know they're not going to be able to answer their question regardless so you know if if they use me as their point person I will immediately get in touch with whoever the appropriate person whether it's Communications or the clerk or the CFO or qpa and we'll get them an answer like that okay we understand question it's noted and as we we discuss in finance the budget and you know just coverage all over we'll definitely consider you um go to the burrow anyone in the public with good of the burrow yes sir Mr bletcher bletcher Road make a few comments about their recent uh faing Council election which was only about three weeks ago though it seems like a life time ago I'm sure to Brian to himself uh just want to say a couple words first it was an absolutely amazing experience for me the one for Council um and I felt totally connected to Fair evening before I ran now I'm closer to that U more importantly I want to Cong graduate Brian and Michael on getting elected be a coun I know you guys incredible assets to the buau and um thank you to Chris on video and L for your uh years years of H dedication and support to the Burl um just amazing opportunity I know all of you have done this uh you know walking the streets of fa Haven was an absolutely amazing experience meeting our neighbors and exploring our neighborhoods and I just wanted to express my thankfulness to community and I look forward to opportunities to continue help support the B so thank you that was I'm also slightly upset because I was closing my meeting as I just showed Betsy with first congratulating Michael D melli and Brian Olen congratulations and also um a huge thank you Neil bletcher Melissa Lowry um I don't think until you've been in the shoes I don't think people realize how much hard work goes into this and the commitment that is made in order to put yourself out there to volunteer for the town um in this capacity and uh you know my hats off off to all you for for uh wanting to give back to the community and I'll also go one step further and tell you that Neil and Melissa both reached out um looking to volunteer on additional committees moving into 2024 and uh you know you have not only mine but the entire Burrow's thanks for doing that thank you um anyone else go to the burrow sure um I would just like to thank the business Community for providing the trolley this past Saturday for a small shopping Saturday um I had the opportunity to ride the trail uh the trolley I know councilwoman Cole did it uh it was a great way to meet our neighbors but it was also a great way for non-residents to see our town what our town had to offer and um I look forward to our next event December 8th for the Christmas tree lighting the manora lighting Santa arrives there's going to be a horse and buggy so it's a great way to show what our town has B at the at the trolley uh event small business Saturday I bought these kids were amazing I got a uh Fair Haven kns keychain I had a sour cream biscuit it was like a cookie SL biscuit it's fantastic I had a they took white chocolate Hershey Kiss melted it down to create a new bar with sprinkles amazing and and this this young girl she's so brilliant she took seal glass and she greened seal glass and she decorated the Grinch on the SE glass I bought one of each of those I thought it was fantastic it was great um good to the burrow anyone else out here yes Michi 5 Frank River Road H you have a brush and leaf committee question or new policy but I just want to thank everyone I'm so excited about this opportunity to represent our town and I can't thank Neil enough for being such a wonderful running meate and he's right walking around town I love our town I love it even more meeting everyone and we have so many cool people in town who know so much I mean I learned so much and I'm chomping at the bit to get started because there's so many cool projects that we're working on and so many things moving born so thank you all um question about Le Rush the so if you don't choose to get the bin then you don't get the opportunity to put out brush brush weekly or and is it weekly is by bi-weekly bi-weekly okay and do you know how much they cost or what's the kind of ballar so I do know I just don't want to reveal yet until we set on the can because I don't want to be false like um what I can tell you is based on my conversations with Fair Haven Hardware um 20 25% lower than lows and Home Depot is usually where the under falls and I don't I don't know if there's anything we've done like this but I just wonder about the people who maybe can't afford it but do want to participate in this program if we will consider I don't know what to be done I'll learn more about it but if there are things we might consider for that because I'm sure there are people who might want to do this that maybe we could talk about it maybe there's an opportunity uh in that program that if you purchase a can you can donate an additional amount towards something like that might work I think that's a good idea all right and I'm very obviously supportive of this project because it's warm water and everything that El safety and all that so thank you all thank you anyone else I'm looking at upad else no anyone else and anyone online online say we have first time okay you're okay it just took me a second to unmute can you hear me okay oh thank you thank you mayor thank you Council and thank you B attorney and Teresa for hearing me out last week I mean uh last month or last meeting whatever it was on my concerns about um you know our diversity and and making sure that we show our diversity in town so thank you for incorporating the Christmas tree into the invitations um again it's very important you know I wanted to come not only to thank you but just to also just remind you that just like everyone on the Das just like everyone on the Committees it is a volunteer effort you know the the my concerns are not you know insignificant in a sense I I I want to protect the town you know against against anything that could possibly hurt the town and and protect our diversity and protect our ability to have Multicultural displays to teach the children about it to learn about it and I think the worst thing that could happen is we can't do that so again I want to thank you for your time and your understanding and uh you know and your consideration in the matter so thank you thank you for your comments Chris anyone else online Susan O'Brien Susan good evening I have a question about the um latest property tax assessment what's your question uh overall for the whole town what percentage did it go up I'm not sure that I could answer that from the T we have to come back to you on that and it's not you know they'll be it overall but it's basically it's done my neighborhood based on sales no no no you have you had valuation last year for all of the town and you have one for this year what's the percentage increase we just don't yeah we just we just don't have that off the cuff we we can get that for you Susan and it's also subject to uh appeal I just and that's why I want to know about what is the increase for the for the total town so that I can compare with um what my increase is sure understand we we'll we'll get that for you and uh Teresa you can email that to her sure we'll get that emailed out to you thank you Susan Brian Rice hey [Music] Brian hello again for my family room watching football um I just wanted to follow up with the uh um the or proposed ordinance how about a novel thing take out fishing and crabing and don't just Target that User Group to the dock I mean it would stand to reason that if you just made this ordinance to some some council members mentioned it's just make an ordinance that is a little bit tighter so that Chief McGovern has something to go on for all the open space and part and recreational um areas that we have in town and not just make it you know specifically targeting and fishing and crabbing I think contrary to council that um it does open up a huge potentially can of worms that could end up in a legal dispute battle with the state it's happened before and I don't want to see it happen here they will get wind of it I have talked you know I'm not talking out of school I'm not talking you know about things I don't know about from especially a legal perspective and a Sportsmen perspective take that wording out and just use it you know as as an overall blanket ordinance for all our open space did we consider that we had a whole conversation about okay I well we did we did but I didn't write it so I guess I we did have a discussion about it but I don't believe it was brought up to take out the verbiage of fishing and crabbing we we we had we had had conversation okay yeah and and again I'll just throw out there not continue this conversation because I think we've we we've uh We've squeezed as much as we can out of it tonight but this doesn't mean we're done with it and I think we can continue to improve it um you've heard my living breathing document phrased before uh let's let's see what we have come tune July and we'll go from there sounds good thank you have a good night thank you br aome looks like hi Ruth good evening I got in late and can you in one paragraph tell me what this green can thing is and why I cannot go out and buy my own you're up CH uh one you can buy it on your own two it's going to support increase in services for brush pick up to twice a month between the months of May and September and if we don't do it we don't get any brush pickup correct just during those mod sounds like a tax sounds like a tax increase to me it's a cost neutral we're increasing the services in a cost neutral way we're doubling the brush pickup in those months we're doubling Leaf Pi pickup and then we're adding um full cleanups in the fall and spring months to accompany Ruth Ruth cost cost neutral to you but it isn't cost neutral to the individual residents Ruth incoming council person uh D Michelli just brought up a potential idea for people that may not be able to afford the cans of us um subsidizing or residents subsidizing um those residents through some type of uh share program but up to this up to this up to this point the town has had brush pickup it has been included in our taxes if we do the sweat or if you have a landscape or they do their sweat and we get our stuff out to the curb we are entitled to have it picked up and in this particular instance it is no longer a normal included in taxes thing and I resent that I really do I just think that the see your point how does it sound how does a buy a pro or buy a can give a can program sound like for residents who might want to um ad that is not the point that is not your point entirely I really do you're talking about diminishing Services exactly yep I hear you um and I was proposing if if I cut down my brush and put it out at the curb I want it picked up just like it has been and I don't see any reason to go into this this can business I really don't we we understand we understand your opinion with anything else not at the moment thank you hope you're doing well nobody else else no okay um with that being said we're going to move towards executive session the time is 9:03 p.m. all in favor I anyone opposed thank you hey the time is 9:24 pm. do I have a motion to close this meeting so move second all in favor anyone oppose good night fa Haven just um does any