body to the uh May 2024 uh regular meeting of the Fair Haven historic commission adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time uh at the time the board Rec uh reorganization in January this year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the meeting schedule was sent and published to by the Asbury Park Press on January 26 2024 and notice to the times on February 7th 2024 the notice was also also posted on the bulletin board in the burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute a copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file of the in the office of the burough clerk a copy of the notice has also been sent to such members as the public as have been as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting uh can we have a roll call Mr here here Mr Anderson here mull Mr here Mr here okay great well we do have a quorum um I'm going to put old business on hold we have a couple of small things to address because we want to accommodate and actually we have two applications one is a Carol Lang interior but if uh you don't mind we have um some we have it shouldn't be that complicated but we have a matter involving the burrow that we would like to take first if we may so we have Teresa cassand who would' like to hear as part of the application which is obviously the burough of Fair Haven and property at issues 21 Fair Haven Road that's block 47 Lots 1 and 1.01 and the application is for the purpose of approval for house demolition of the structure that currently exists on that property sir so uh we'll hear for I want to thank you for uh having me this evening as for hearing the application I'm here on behalf of bough Fair Haven um as you know we recently purchased the property at 21 Haven Road which is a beautiful property adjacent to the Burrow's uh dock uh overlooking the nain river um the burrow has not uh finally determined a a plan for the um the property but it will be a part that I can assure you of and uh the governing the mayor and Council are appointing a group of citizens um to uh begin to meet and discuss uh the the long-term plan for that part we did Rec we did acquire it with a combination of uh money from M County open space Grant uh over a million dollars we've got $500,000 from greet acres and the burrow contributed 364,000 I believe um the reason I'm here today obviously it's an historic district and um the burough uh looks is looking to demo the house I provided for you a a package that was prepared by Nigerian Associates for the burrow and it was prepared uh on behalf of um Green Acres Grant that we submitted because it's part of the Green Acres um rules uh before you demo a piece of property uh structure a piece of property that you uh got Grand funding for you have to prove that it's not restored uh the Burrows records show that it was uh built in 1960 and um the report there that you have uh that Jeran prepared uh with pictures and and the narrative is currently has been submitted to the New Jersey State uh historic preservation office for their uh blessing and approval to um demolish the structure obviously we're look for the commission's blessing and approval also because uh it is it's in your historic district yeah well thank you and obviously um as a result of it being in the historic district the commission has uh jurisdiction and the reports specifically for the record that you're referring to is the May 20th report of nerian Associates authored by Travis Osborne senior environmental scientist so thanks very much for the sufficient um it was complete it provided more information than uh I think we even really need but it seems pretty Apparent from uh what's been submitted as a house I think that was damaged in Sandy has never really been repaired has been has fallen in complete dis repair um it's probably hazardous uh amongst other things and the property itself has been allowed to deteriorate to the point that even the um the breake Border in front the bulkhead is uh is collapsing the soil is collapsing behind the bulkhead um midcentury 1960 house clearly non-contributory from a historical standpoint we had these issues before where we have a house that just by virtue of where it's located comes before us but really adds nothing to um to the district and as such we find that we cannot uh adhere to what we ordinarily do in terms of uh seeking to preserve something or seeking to uh have a design of the house or preservation of some elements of the house that would be consistent with uh other structures in the historic district so I think that being said it's in combination of that with the fact that it's deteriorated uninhabited is pretty much abandon in my mind makes it sort of a no-brainer that the house should be approved for the purpose of um demolition anybody else have any comments or thoughts I I would say that as alluded to in the in the report uh by age virtue of the age is not not that old and not and and in terms of the quality of the structure regardless of it agees uh not not that contributing uh regardless of when it was built and it's in such poor condition that there it's really not comped at all to the district we had because I know some of the descendants who grew up in that house the same way that the lucky house that was a tough one for us because that's that's not in our jurisdiction either when those applicants came forward it's more of an emotional connection than history is important to them for that reason and but it's for all the reasons stated it doesn't fit within the historical significance or contributory reasons that we can act on but I just want to say that Rec I'm aware of of the impact it has on those that were there but and I understand those sentiments but I think it's very important to keep in mind that the most historical thing about that property is the naving river and and the fact that that parcel will be Pres reserved forever and ever for generations to come to be able to access that River in a beautiful site um I think is the most important thing you know to keep in mind and I think the removal of the house will will allow the bur to move forward with future plans um for you know certainly something that will serve the residents from many years and I assumed any uh proposed improvements would come back here there yes I you know I think that the that the the governing body is going to be very pensive and and consider you know what the public is looking for um and uh certainly your input also um I can't say what that'll look like but but I'm inclined to think that it it would lean towards something extremely passive um that's just how I think it'll probably end up you know playing itself out I would hope so because that's what that's why we kind of already went for it because finding out that it was going to be passive because they were talking about having a a kitty park with the the water fountain well that was a joke that was never honestly P that was neverly even considered I won't lie to you everybody was right yeah somebody somebody made an off pay reference to that you know how those things kind of take a long I I have confidence in the in the in the governing body and their ability to listen to the public and and to get good input on it for now um we just want to secure the property from a safety perspective get the house down um and and you know level it out until they decide and I also will say um M County open space grants they've changed their uh parameters uh we got a significant larger Grant than we originally had gotten for that property they went from 250 to over the million and they also having uh increased the amount of their development grants uh to 500,000 in a match and and at some point whatever the governing body and the public decide for that parcel it would make a very good monel County open space Grant um submission in the future because they um they look kindly on on on funding something to improve something they helped purchase Teresa do you know before the mid-60s what was no was my next question what what was going on there beforehand what kind of home who was there I don't know about a home I do know that there there was a the burrow did have a dock there um it probably the location the Chand AAS Warehouse Chand from the old photos it looks like that like whatever Freight facility they had was kind of on the east side of that it was probably on that property right um I wonder you know obviously that was probably out of there by the 1930s or 40s so 20 years prior to the construction of this house but I wonder if during excavation or anything if any remnant of that yeah you never know I was talk to C mcole the other day and we were talking about the fact that we might want to uh reference that in some form like maybe put a picture of it on the on the current dock you know when you're looking in that direction or something in the future would be a nice thing or any elements are found at the old doc might be something for the you know we have members of the historic Association they may be interested Amon may be interested in preserving some of that and maybe paying homage to it or something I think that's an excellent discussion and in fact at low tide people asked all the time about what those pilings are and it is where the original qu was so I think it's actually what you said earlier brilliant in the sense of um the historic part is was the access to the river and what it was used for and that's actually shed that's what I'm very cool that was that was cool okay any other thoughts or comments by the commission not related to that but to the S district and to the town I saw Rich Gardella down there and they were putting in the no parking signs and I gu that that whole uh uh possibility of having the historic district designated things because I was going to ask you I was going to keep you here for a few moments to discuss the parking sign thing since you were so involved in it but kind of let's just STI if we could this for now um I did have a question though too and that was um um the historic preservation office sort of an you know quick rundown or analysis now um when you seek input from the historic presentation office of New Jersey you do is that done only in conjunction with a grant or does the state do that automatically with a grant that affects something that is potentially historic I know it's required for Green Acres um and and it's part of you know Green Acres is a reimbursable grant they didn't come to the closing with money uh so before we close out that Grant um you know they have different boxes we have to check and one of them is if you're going to demolish a structure that you have to have it cleared through the state historic preservation office is there any access that any kind like we would have for example to their ability to take a look at a structure and deem it historic or rer I don't know how they actually do it I know it's an online submission process you know we use the jaran because we had used them for the environmental work also um and you know they had come in prepared it follow the the specs I haven't heard back from them I did advise uh my representative at Greenacres that the borough had submitted it and I don't how long it takes them to turn it around and how long they meet but I would imagine um at some point we'll get an answer and and I'm sure we'd have access to their minutes or whatever that that they produce as part of their review of the proc uh any thoughts or comments questions from the public no okay uh I'll make a motion that we approve uh based on the submissions and the representations that we approve the application for demolition of structure located at 21 Fair Haven Road Block 47 Lots one and 1.01 but obviously the the uh the approval is limited to the demolition of that existing structure solely no other activity on on that that property being there's some trash property we have to clean up as part of the understood all second motion we get a vote on that Mr Pap yes dond yes Mr Anderson yes Sora yes and Mr yes cool thank you very much appreciate it while I have you here um and I guess it kind of would fall into the old business category is what had happened after the last meeting about these signs there was some confusion as to where what they would consist of so in as much I guess as there was uh some move prior to Memorial Day to place some signs and some no paring activity at the end of Fair Haven Road there was a request on behalf of uh the mayor and some other council members to possibly have an intermediate or interim decision on whether we would weigh in on the existence of the signs main question was whether or not they would be painting on the street and the curving or whether or not we would prefer signs when I say we obviously I made the commission um we we sent out an email we got responses and basically the overwhelming response unanimously was that signage would be uh preferable over any type of painting on the sidewalk with street or the bbing but that if there was any way to have some type of historic sign that would obviously be pref preferential over any other type of signage obviously that would maybe be a bit in conflict with other contempor uh contemporary signs that exist in the historic district now and there was um sort of a flurry of activity that went back and forth on that issue as to whether or not it's allowable whether or not it infringes on public health and safety and what's required by the state as far as mun Municipal signs and post ordinances things of that nature so maybe just tell us a little bit of the background of what happened and then ultimately where we're at right now ultimately um obviously we we took your input on on signage versus Pain curves um and and you know we have several things going on there we have the three-way stop that was put in um and and there's parameters of how far back you know you have to be you know on the stop Street and where the stop bars go all that and has to be worked at by engineering and then the balance of the sign which are really not up yet but revolve around um uh twoh hour parking uh as you approach you know down by the the dock area um we had to have them in special order but um the bottom line is the burrow engineer in in Consulting with uh other Engineers who have uh traffic U expertise uh signs are are within uh you know a certain distance from from a roadway um they have to meet uh state standards for signage um which include the type of sign the reflectivity of a sign and ultimately most importantly um the Breakaway of the the post because the the idea is that if you it's almost twart post and it's not my of expertise but Rich explain it to me um if you happen to hit that with your car um instead of it becoming uh either something that could seriously damage you or could become a breakaway projectile they're designed to just F over flat so um you know the burrow has to follow those regulations um if if you were talking about um let's say you had a by me we have Fairway Ms it's a it's a complete condo area where where you're not public roadways you know you know you can you can have a little more leeway with your signage or if you're talking about signage uh that that's going to be outside of you know the footage involved on the roadway um you have a little more leeway and flexibility but signs are actually posted as these are be posted have to uh follow uniform traffic standards and and and we did our grou diligence we looked up rich even consulted with um a gentleman who lives in town John mccom he works for dynamic and they do their their major focus is um uh is the traffic design and signage uh and they helped he was a big help to us when we did the um River Road project with the bike lanes and everything and uh he 100% along with Rich's contact at the State uh agreed that they would have to follow the the the standards for those type of sides yeah I kind of suspected that that would have been result but you know since it was open we Pro provided some possibilities and had a lot of benefit but yeah I I and and you know it a lot of my job is nothing's a problem but becomes a problem and we do a lot to make sure nothing has a problem because if there was ever an accident and we didn't follow that you know that there's where your liability comes in and and you know you have to you have to do your due diligence and make sure that the burrow is protected to you know against some sort of future file of of a suit okay El there any other questions or anything thanks very much thank you very much and I appreciate everyone's out here day thanks appreciate it good night guys okay uh the second matter that we have on is which was originally the first matter we can have you come up with is Carol Lang Interiors that's 88:13 River Road Block 50 lot 18 and that's new uh branded signage uh on an existing performing freestanding sign how are you I'm wel welcome to are you Carol I'm Carol okay welcome Carol um so I am a tenant at 813 River Road and as it's in the historic district my understanding was I needed to come before you um just to have the signage reviewed prior to installation um and what space in that building are you second floor space you taking the spin studio yeah okay interesting so I'm looking to replace the existing Clementine 60inch X 16inch sign with um identical sized sign just with my company and name on it and um what's the the makeup of the sign you the um some type of sythe material vinyl is it is it going to be have any depth whatsoever no depth just flat that's what the existing is now so I'm just actually the chief dep at Powerhouse is doing it for me he's uh he did the clim side okay um and I know you know I appreciate you submitting photos of the premises and submitting photos of the existing sign and uh obviously all three of those signs that U are are indicated in that submission or signs that were before us of identical construct material and the same manufacturer and uh installer and um I don't have any problems with Sonic any thoughts or comments from I mean if anything it's going to be less abusive I not the offensive or anything but I think it's going to be a little bit more subtle just generally you know recording B for my business I mean it's consistent with the other signs that I mean obviously different I mean obviously in construct and other signs that we've allow in other parts of the hisor district as well you got one one time a year it matched the pumpkin color they were pumpkins for a while when they first is it gonna be this blue it'll be it's a navy blue nice so I identical to what you been corre any thoughts comments questions from the public yeah were you in buit someplace else I was working out of my house prior okay in Fair Haven and is it um what tell us a little bit interior designer so I do um primarily residential Interiors um and I've been in business on my own for a little over 10 years and 10 years before that I worked for a large commercial Architecture Firm and are you going to have the space up there are you going to have is an office as well a showroom and things of that nature most like catalogs I imagine stuff like that SOC welcome well not welcome you been stepping up to commercial space so very good I'll make a motion that we approve the application for the signage as proposed on his own oh yeah Mr yes yes Mr yes yes okay congrats we'll something up and we'll email it to you'll get it very good have a good evening all right so um in terms of old business I think the main thing that we had going on was that uh the signage thing that we had Teresa talk about um like I said it was just a lot going on I know that you guys probably saw those emails that went back and forth and everybody did respond that you know something that we could Poss really enticing and all you know they have it but I understand the whole liability and yeah reflectivity of the sign I mean all that kind of stuff I knew it was kind of it's going to be pretty inoc it see it elsewhere park right by the the dock and suddenly they put up the signs no parking like Park you going to TI me it's also a porta right there yeah yeah we should have said maybe gotone for the oldfashioned the jobs um yeah exactly um and I didn't see there a lot of the 2our parking I guess it's meant to prevent people from hanging out there or whatever yeah that's going on there all afternoon yeah all right yeah that's that def be interesting have leave a little note on this any other um old business that we can think of no okay okay so um we have uh the approval of the April 25th 24 minutes I looked at them they look I make a motion that we approve them second yes yes yeah just yes and we have our historic Association B sentennial Hall update with um Katie or liaison and members of the public and represent representatives of the Sor Association um at this point I have no update but I'll defer to the president in case she wants to add any comments I refer Tracy there was a resolution on agenda got take it off so there's what was the resolution was uh sorry do you want you know TR um the resolution was for a proposal from the Goldstein group to uh author the update to the maintenance and Improvement plan that Mr pav uh did what 12 years ago now um while we have a proposal from Mr P as well we have not completed the do this FES a line the The Proposal fees are quite different um one is for 7500 one is for about 1,500 and or 12200 something like that so we asked for a verification of scope whether we have like to like or are they differentiated in particular because we want to make sure that we're going to have access the right professional guidance for some key questions that would fall under maintenance be but be um significantly important from from a designed standpoint and all of that of course is going to be deliberated here on the stakeholder such as for example pink color and you would you ever bring that in front of the board for our recommendation because that's like night and day between those two firms in terms of their background and expertise um uh I mean it you know um I think this fer group and the governing body might benefit from your this board's knowledge of both of those firms and their capacity for preservation matters yeah I think yeah they they just they're very different structured firms with a a very different um uh kind of approach to things like that I mean obviously one does U primarily uh historic uh work right p and so yeah and then not only that that he did some of the drawings back in the day uh for the restoration of it as well so but rather than an opinion I think that you know if you if it would be helpful from the board to put in or two cents of that I we'd be more than happy because it that building needs TLC and and historic sensitivity and knowledge as opposed to some something that's very heavy-handed and um meets the I mean that's almost what happened with the the ramp there before you know it was just you know admit the the criteria at the time but it was not well conceived or or built or or any and of course now it's it's Fallen apart uh but it's certainly detracted from the and some of the proposals that were done here uh recently equally I mean they were to close the front doors and make them you know really you know and a number of things like that that that um uh there there's a certain amount of functionality if it was a non-historic building and some of that may be worth discussing but for something that that it's you know been rescued by Pat and and others and has such a rich history um both both socially as well as architecturally that I think you know there's one of those two that would be much more uh qualified to to do that and and but I think that would if we can do something as a board to make that recommendation to the council we you know we' really like to you know put it I think it's an excellent um suggestion I think this body is in a position to make that assessment honestly um I think also the Prof your profession credentials as well also one of them has appeared before the body Mr pav has hasn't he been here before the stor preservation Commission on other applications yeah not not as an advocate for B for Chapel to to demolish it so on the opposite credentials oh credentials are impeccable yes and also if if we can recall that particular application that you're you're talking about he uh was willing to make some very nuanced adjustments of it that um you know we really appreciate I don't know but they haven't started demolishing or reconstructing that that house is completely done it's done oh I'll have to go by and see it but anyway oh that's that's awesome but I I know there was some stuff that we were looking at some very uh things that it came from from all of us looking at it from different board members that were these unique qualities about it and and he understood the importance of them and put them in yeah I got to put in and see that and I think also just kind of visit back to what was happening when when all that activity was happening with the burrow to reinvigorate um f chapel and to use it like the time that you're describing a lot of the elements that were being advocated by that particular Architectural Group I know that you were very critical of and and um we' in general were kind of critical of and that's just seemed to be their sort of Mantra now I'm not suggesting that that tracks from their ability or their quality of the work it may have been that they were tasked coming up with the design that fit whatever the purpose was at the time but you're illustrating a potential disconnect between their understanding of the facility at a time when they were evolved you know which really done a 180 yeah and it was consistent there were a number of different decisions made and things that we looked at I don't know that they um The Bu group have caught up with where we are and inness I think that could be um that could be part of the analysis that goes into have you gotten a response back as to the comparison of that no not yet which is why uh it was the homework was in complete we didn't have that so it does give us time to if you're if you're interested in weighing in the proposals that themselves are one page just because the the work is straightforward um but it's a pH call to each of the firms and I imagine Teresa will do that but I certainly I would welcome this body's contribution to whatever form that comes I I would make most sense that's we Rie the proposals but or we could even apply on the because they they've been here they U both have been there in various capacities so we you know I I reflect on that and some of the other drawings that were prepared in the past for it which had done uh was it around 2010 or 20 20 I think yeah 201 so the just to clarify the Goldstein was the ones who did the plans with closing off the front I don't think I realize that than for yeah it was a bit of a surprise for us you know because it it um you know there it did in some levels you know work for a very specific functionality of that um but it obviously took away the whole way the building was intended to be using and and also I think as we we discussed here that we'd hope it wouldn't be a onetick pony that there's a number of different uses that could occur there but not only the boards uh being there but other types of activities and so but you know but taking advantage of some of the technological advances and things that are available now that are perhaps movable or or able to not be so fixed and so intrusive uh could be uh incorporated into it while you know keeping more of the thing and not I with that a very you know heavy handed yeah I they were changing the levels and side and you know had that been a fruit just think about it with the uses currently and what projected uses are and what the ideas are I mean that would really we would have been kind of kicking ourselves that would have been a lot so yeah system works sometimes we have good people listening to each other and you know when we when that ramp was first put in we were neophytes about all of this Ada and all that stuff and so we really had nothing really to say about it and actually the the um Architects were one lived in Fair Haven on n g yeah Kaplan and Gant did did the ramp and everything and after it was done we were like wow that's heavy looking it very heavy looking so I I I'm I'm happy with everybody now I'm really excited about yeah know it seems like it's going in a good direction and I guess our two cents would be to try to keep as much of that integrity it's there and and the Stu to to you know create I think it's great well personally I think it's great that it's going to get further use you you want it to be safe and and and and and functional but at the same time not not stripping away or uh uh being so heavy-handed with it that it takes away its character and I think we mentioned this last week but for last time but we did the grant committee did put forward a grant or apply for a grant that would help the future planning of what the uses we would want and how we might Implement them and what would need to be done at a structurally or you know so we're waiting to see well we'll see what happens with that but thank you to the well you know it's interesting that you say that and I'm not you P you would know and you would know as well that the when it was moved it wasn't a cut in half yeah yeah I mean like in a place that I don't think it was an ideal stru cut I understand back right in the middle straight across right in the middle and when it was put together again they left out two important beams yeah it's just somebody's that structural engineer should definitely because when it rained I mean the the walls were torquing in yeah and when it rained the water would run down the Walls while you're having a meeting it was it was tough and that beautiful beautiful um uh tin ceiling got all rusted and curly and everything and it it ruined it and it didn't have to happen no anyway anyway any development of that not only do you want to make it functional now but if there's inherent structural issues that should be addressed sooner rather than later hope thep I'll have an answer by next on next meeting um I uh I don't know if it'll get turned around in time but but I think it would be helpful if this body has a position of some type that would like to put forward um if in case all that does come together it would like to make sure you're heard you mean right if we could weigh in on on which absolutely which vendor if you will is chosen I mean there's times it's useful to pay a little bit more for qualifications and buying work the experience and if there's any chance I mean would it make sense that we saw proposal so brid is not talking yeah abstractly about it or from I mean we could approach it either way but at least I mean certainly I think it's relevant for us to weigh in on it uh we don't want to be an impediment but but obviously I think that uh you know especially with the timing um I don't know that we need to make a motion I don't know that I need to make a motion can request the proposals and circulate them to the commission and then um by way of you know old business by next month we'll follow up on this and then is that going to be soon enough I don't think so well not to make but basically just keep it on the agenda as an item that keeps on recurring until something happen do we need I wonder if they're looking for a memo from us and I don't think so you want something before our next meeting correct yes within the next week or 10 days something like that so in the same way that pull us for the signage cons sent that to Teresa would that be a similar that that kind of happened out an formal uh basis we should add a new agenda item tonight then perhaps to and or is it something that we could circulate here because I mean to have a unilateral kind of exposure like you did with the signs you know I thought that yeah so looks there's no application that's pending so it's not like we can you know make a motion on something conjured up so I think the way we'll handle it is to express to the association and as a representative of the buau that we would like to have the opportunity to to review that look observe it um analyze it to some degree and then make recommendations as to uh the direction it goes and who is chosen obviously KN it's just in our advisory capacity yeah so just could that's what I was asking could you could we introduce that question right now tonight and you eloquently summarized your stance and if we could adopt his stance or is that too quick stance as to the uh yeah we just don't we don't have an in front of we we could sign or send something out to the buau saying that we you know we do have an interest in it we would like the ability to review the proposals and and and require before action is taken on the bureau's behalf uh in choosing a a consultant to provide uh because under the under the agenda item of by Hall statement was made it would be good to have your on this so I feel like the reest has been made it's in the minutes and now you can I'll send I mean I'll prepare a memorandum of action and send it on I just wanted to drag on drag on well yeah yeah but I think we as art saying if we put our foot in the door now it's you know it's kind of in their respon you know in their Court to respond and get back to us uh and hopefully and in terms of the wording of it uh the actual document or the proposal called the document what did it call the document um the it's a proposal for the update to the I'm going to say maintenance and Improvement plan might say 10year maintenance and Improvement plan you know actually let let me just give me a minute and I'm gonna see if I can actually find that for you well she's doing that I just have a a concern about you know that the either either side of the building there's two little uh bump outs and one was used for the choir to change their clothes and the other was used for the pasture and they had on both sides three doors like beautiful doors with glass in and they were you know like accordion typ doors that could be put back they were there until I saw the last time I saw them was like maybe down the basement about 10 years ago still there where they're still there thank you God I you describ them when Rob I didn't see them when I went when Rob and I went down there we saw against the wall behind a whole bunch of other stuff doors that looked like what you're describing but there obviously it was you couldn't move them but we peaked down it we saw glass and then they may be down there that would be but I you know what were you thinking reinstall reinstalling them is if it was between the main n and the the on both sides yeah and and they could be you know they would you could close them if you didn't want them but it's just it's just part of the building that's good to let them know those are existing and and and would like to have it Incorporated in the original passion or something that consisted oh I'm so happy to know that they were there I was like always like oh CH anyway we have a still looking probably can find just s so when is the work going to start on doing the new um Ada ramp and stuff what what is that what's happening with that I don't know but I don't know how that D tells into this study you know he was given the ability to go ahead and address that right now the other that's that's separate that was addressed separately yeah separately they're done looking the last everything yeah um the there has there is still some more work to to be drawn up um before the Ada work goes out to bid I would say we probably have at least another three weeks before it goes out to bed still hoping to be able to complete that work before it's pretty simple you know you think so maybe before the holidays would still be done did they include remember when we had that really bad rain and the pathway going to the the bottom of the ramp it was just flooded is that going to be remediated um there'll be two levels of work or two separate components of work that will address it to a certain extent some of the Ada improvements will address it because their ramp is contributing to the water in the basement okay um flashing maybe no I don't know but we have some issues there with the um and then there's a punch list of repair work repair and maintenance work that is also from a grading standpoint and also within the basement probably have to maybe even excavate Lo carefully but between those two buckets work I should get it as I've got this in my other concern is that people are starting to talk again about putting big bushes around the building no they didn't have buil bushes like that in 1880 and 1890 it was Bare that's the way it was and people kept putting big Evergreens next to it and they had the The Evergreens were so big that the the branches were going in and breaking right into the window in front on both sides and squirrels were using that as the ramp to go in and nest in the in the inside so please just tell them don't do that don't put the squirrel had their own Ada yeah at the last dayold was meeting specifically at the last dayold was meeting we were talking a little bit about the landscaping and I did specifically bring up if we could maybe reference back to what would have been more historic exactly so we kind of the same we're on the same page so I could have told them 25 years ago they they had four Evergreens at Each corner and they were so big they grew so fast that they had to be torn out it it was just like okay we he you like my babies makes difference all the trees Al going through exactly and and then went from the street you couldn't see the building there were Giant enss I'll tell you some after anyway well facilities committee [Music] but I have a too I just want so so whoever goes to knows what I'm talking Nam what document is that that's the one 2010 all right you'll get that taken care of I will send that up and um so able to forward this to of course yeah if you could any other thoughts comments of anything else I Hall related not invol all right any feel just just a the building that's where men's hair for women is now that was the original Firehouse as we know and I actually found there's a cool picture in the firehouse showing that the fire trucks they parked all their trucks in what is now NAU Grill that's where they they kept over back then it was the benett hotel the reason I bring that up is on June 1st which is Saturday June 1st 1904 was the day that the fire company was incorporated oh that's cool the reason it was incorporated is that uh prior to that for 15 years the men who fought fires in Fair Haven were African-Americans and they had to bring their own pales and they did they did the best job they could and then a couple of uh the wealthy folks the big Estates their houses burned down and they said we need our own fire company fa Haven was sort of the stepchild of burough of shuberry back then as far as services and so we didn't even have fire hydrants so they went into action on June 1st 1904 exactly 120 years ago this Saturday the fire company was formed and that year that they put in a motion to get um the water company and said we need four hydrants they their first order of business was $2,000 for the first truck which was you know I think behind hes truck and anyway so I just want to bring that up um I know that's not in a historic district but it's interesting piece of History I think at least you have a photo of that Old Firehouse do you know gave a photo of that the second you see it you see it so if you see all of us if you see all of us this Saturday um gathered on the front um um Tyler Breen rdge who did the Fantastic Journal footage of this everything ties together before the firehouse was was um there uh the the new Firehouse oh people would uh the men would would they' had that big Bell you see the big Bell Tower giant Bell and that would ring and then all the guys with their wagons we go flying to to wherever they were supposed to be and um you know with with the horse and and the wagon and guy that got there first got won money so they were going really fast they should reinstate that you see in the morning on Saturday we're all going to be in the front of the firehouse taking his picture oh cool the original part yeah oh yeah that's what we should do should no we're gonna be went yeah any other thoughts comments from public yes soon oh I'm kind of confused that you had some kind of a discussion about the signs on Fair Haven Road but you did it email wise yeah so what happened is there was a it was um an action taken on behalf of the buau um or a thought that there was going to be additional signage at the end of Fair Haven Road the uh it didn't make it on as an agenda item so we didn't address it formally but the the burrow had to take action they want want to take action with regard to the signage prior to Memorial Day so they consulted us they sent emails to us and we sent emails amongst the commission as to our position on the existence of signage versus a painting on the sidewalk Street and curb and that came back as prefering preferring signage as opposed to the painting and then also uh there was a suggestion by I think every one of the members if there's any way to have made the signs historic in nature or something not just a contemporary uh you know traffic sign and so we weighed in on that um but obviously it didn't make all that much difference because of what Theresa described here that they're pretty much burough had its hands tied in terms of various elements for Public Safety and adherence to uh traffic safety laws and burrow other burrow requirements and other state requirements so the signs went in as a the only difference that I suspect our role was was the signage versus the painting of the roadway my concern is because you're a commission and um the public gets notified when your meetings are a little concerned about doing this like behind the scenes and not under the open meeting well we did discuss it and it was discussed at the were you here at the last meeting no yes so it was discussed and it was um I believe it was part of old business we discussed the um the signage issue so it is in the record should be you discussed it via email well no when so basically uh we were going to table it for a month but because the B needed to take action Before Memorial Day they asked whether or not we could take some action on beforehand and that was done via email done via the consensus of the commission so you didn't make the decision at the meeting you didn't we did not make a decision at the meeting no okay so that's a problem under the open public that well that would I don't think everybody you guys weren't all I'm on the email they weren't all on there um was there no Mr still what decision was made so that I'm kind of concerned because you're now discussing two two different plans for Bicentennial Hall and you're talking about doing it behind the scenes again well that's not something that really is being done by the commission per se it's something that is a a sort of a private public partnership between the historic Association and the burough and there and through the fundraising efforts and efforts made by the group with the burrow they're seeking to get a plan to move forward with activ with restoration and renovation and maintenance of the building no I understand that but because it's not on your agenda tonight and you don't have time to do anything before this comes before the council again so it sounds to me like it's going to be again done behind the scenes no not at all and that's that's precisely I think one of the reasons why there wasn't a formal motion made or any quote unquote action taking it was more of sort of an an inquiry if you will in a sense that this is being we're being advised of this we're being advised of the status of what's happening between the public private Partnership of the buau and the association we feel as though it's something that perhaps we would like to weigh in on so we're seeking to get that information The Proposal and the information and it will come up let me just let me just finish it'll come up as an agenda item or will be discussed or will be placed as actual business probably in the bicentennial Hall section next month okay or to your point and and your points well taken I actually let me let me just finish I'll instruct Sheila perhaps to put in there that uh the the issue with regard to the proposals for the uh maintenance and Improvement plan be part of the a subheading of the bicentennial Hall discussion for next month and secondly will you be going on Zoom at all the planning Bo just voted to uh go on Zoom they haven't finalized exactly what their criteria is but uh like then I can't couldn't miss a meeting because I was zo yeah um there hasn't really been a discussion to it um I'm not personally in favor of it um but again it's not even been something that we've thought about or address to be honest with you um I don't know what's what are people's thoughts on that what what's the out of all the buau commit or committees that meet how many of them do it publicly n i shouldn't say that uh Planning and Zoning currently do not have a zoom feature planning you had a discussion at their last meeting and took a vote on whether or not to use zoom moving forward they voted a majority voted yes that they would then at the next our next meeting they will discuss some of the details and the parameters of how that will work there was a lot of discussion about um some of the issues that surround it yeah the reason I as that question there's the library I mean there are a lot of that me W Department meets virtually the council meetings or obviously you can environmental yeah so I mean it could be something that we could put on as a as an administrative item for our next meeting and then have a discussion and was there anybody that has to do I mean I desire to do it I think coming in person yeah I think that you know it's t you mean for us to do it via Zoom no no no you I'm saying so the public can VI oh oh okay you so it was a long discussion about a lot of the Nuance whether or not it would be public or whether or not it would be members and what any parameters might we would have to design around that um how you would deal with applications and viewing materials So to that point and sharing that with the public and then for example if like last minute you get a submission evening from an applicant um that you can't show that on the zoom and so there were some things like that that well in essence this is a public meeting because it has to be announced ahead of time and if people want to come they can come I I don't you know I I think Susan's bringing up just the nature of the times that even though people can go to any meeting like Council meetings Bo the Board of Ed meeting and it's been tremendous for those bodies that obviously have much as much as I think our job is very important the Board of Education the council obviously have wide reaching audiences and it's been very favorable to those bodies to go to zoom um especially during covid so the question is is are you know how important are you hearing people Susan say they want to participate in this remotely well there's already two other commissions who do have zoom meeting the environmental commission as well as the shade tree commission and they're on Zoom for the Fone and when when you say just so I know they don't conduct their meetings via Zoom but they have a zoom uh component where the members of public can participate they yes we can we can raise our hands and be recognized but they also conduct their meetings okay and they have they have members who zoom in and vote yeah um I mean there's two factors here there there's how do we participate as a group of people that meet once a month and what can the public view I would I am not averse to the public viewing our work and hearing us talk in fact it's very good actually for more people to become interested in historic issues I personally to for the reason that she stated think we should be meeting in person yeah I completely agree the element of members of the public that would be viewing it would not have access to documents and things of that nature and they never do though well correct although clearly if somebody a member of the public wanted to see something before they made a decision as to whether to voice a comment there would be no problem with that clearly however they have the right to appear in person and uh that's that's not that's not something that's being removed from their opportunity so if they choose to uh merely observed by virtue of Zoom now they may not have that ability to do that but that's their choice so that would my thought on it but in terms of moving completely to zoom I have no interest in that I think we would lose something in terms of again the interaction with the applicants um you know some more than others uh you know taking of exhibits the looking of plans blueprints elevations specifications that's not what I was asking I was just asking to well you kind of just threw out whether or not we considered it or you know you mentioned other uh components the of the burrow doing that so we hadn't really considered it's not something we talked about she what's the technical let's say a commission or a group wanted to use zoom does the bur already automatically have a zoom link system set up owl it is we're just you know as far as planning is concerned we're kind of looking into what the um possibilities are and then regrouping at the next meeting so the decision was made that yes enough members wanted to have some element of Zoom the question will be how do we handle all the details who Zooms in um you know could it be used in a situation where a member is notavailable but wants to call in from the outside you know from outside if they can't make a meeting but then in fact if they would need it for a vote would their vote count because what if they can't have um you know could we could could an opt we choose there was a lot of nuance of conversation put a variable do we are we allowed to say sure open it up like I said earlier so the public can listen and view but the members our Quorum is only by who is physically present can we limit it to that or once it's open to zoom does that mean anything I I think probably because we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves because again we're having like sort of a a general discussion about it's not something that we had ever discussed before or ever even contemplated didn't even know it was really an issue an item um and I'm hearing that we're a little bit behind the technology we don't even know what capabilities on my sure capabilities which I haven't really dug into but that's understood it's all pretty new but once those capabilities are introduced and we see what the options are then that's when we're get to determine what level or what element I agree I think having the public participate is a great idea um you know maybe even some component of somebody that if we have the ability to bring somebody in Via Zoom if we have an applicant who maybe has experts that we can't have that we don't have Forum I would like to accommodate the public that way as well doing far between but it does happen so let's see how how your search goes and then we can make a decision at that point well you know that's it when people come in individual people come in for their particular house not too many people are you know care about I can't see it you know being a big deal about having Zoom it can't hurt us it can't hurt but just saying it's not going to be like the zoning board or the planning board it' be different she what do you do with the reportings they're on YouTube so anybody can go on YouTube and they're on YouTube in perpetuity so anybody can go there find them they I believe they can be held for a year and then they can be uh let go of whereas the minutes the documents those are forever interesting um but the audio is can you can did we address did we address your questions or thoughts I brought it up so was your concern more that you would want them remote people to be a participant or just as a matter of record of of of every you know of the meetings you know of what people say do well I guess I'm used to um attending the environmental commission the shanger commission via zoom and I can raise my hand if I have a comment or well I mean it's brought up it's something that you know we know now is an option or at least I didn't know it I don't know whether anybody else knew it was an option or potentially an option depending on what we find out technologically and uh put it on we'll put it on as a an old business so you don't listen to the council meetings I'm sorry you don't listen to Council meetings uh sometimes but not always oh he goes he goes all the time yeah I mean there's so many different levels of ways of approaching yeah but it's great discussion to get going and you have to be here monly you know I think it also depends on the complexity if you have that demolition or reconstruction or a uh um you know what we we did on River Road with you know you're not doing that V yeah well you know what I'm even thinking about the the one house we were talking about the different nuan and what a dynamic conversation we had that day and it was different ideas from different I remember every you a lot of the different board members had saw in the existing house different qualities of it that they wanted to keep and you know it just seemed you lose something in Zoom you could yeah I don't know you know there something to talk about saying you guys have to I understand yeah no agree I so trying to get it to be that you know the best it could be and but I think having the the public be a part of this them more into it is great you know because whatever it's part of our town and and history is part of it too and we' hope that they would take an interest in you know be aware of what's going on well as you can tell it's not a lot of people here no but I mean maybe it' be more if it was easier and they didn't have to leave their kids or whatnot take the field the dreams approach if we build it they will come all right there's nothing else motion to close second hey thanks everybody have I tried to find the all right have a good night everybody it's really recomend