all right this is the Fair Haven shade tree Commission meeting of December 6 2023 in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in C or by means of communication equip to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from burrow Hall 748 River Road Fair Heaven New Jersey public participation for this meeting on December 6 2023 is available by Callin phone number or through Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was sent to the Asbury Park Press the Two River times in the Star Ledger on January 26 2023 posted on the burough website the Bolton board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the shade tree commission secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting roll call M secretary Chris Larson pres Mike D'Angelo here Leah beani she said she was not making it Peter pres Mike hoey said he would be absent Chris mccave said he would be here um Kevin McGovern here Dill Sullivan here Bonnie tvia here here you have a quum also present counc for Brooks and secretary lar okay please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under indivual with liy jce all okay did everybody get a chance to peruse the prior meeting minutes questions or comments a motion to approve no I'm sorry Mike motion to approve the minutes second right minut it's approved let's get right into it the project updates we're going to start with an update from bur tree Specialists Mr B Brooks all right county is in the process of removing the trees that we indicated for request that they remove along Ridge Road essentially from the bird sanctuary East to the intersection the maple tree that's was the one that was F the Seas partially failed in one of the windstorms landed in the driveway didn't do any damage they cleaned that up for but uh they're very very busy they're they're getting there so they expect to have it done by the end of this week okay nothing has changed on gloom and doom from uh the disease and insect standpoint from anybody um I did not talk to the folks at Bartlett yet in December um to see if they had come up with anything different I hope I find out they they're making progress but right now I think it's still in the working on it stage that's primarily um bacterial Leaf Scorch the emerald ashb it looks like they have a parasitic wasp control that will probably allow some reforestation and that's good um and it appears to be successful in terms of over winter and there are new new saplings starting to show up in some of the areas where this first started so that's real good now whether or not they just Survive by luck or it's genetically a little different it's too soon to tell but that's what the supposition is at this point so maybe you know 25 or 40 years there'll be another viable Ash white ash you know population in the country but right now it's too early to tell but the parasitic wasp does look like it will work and the only thing it really goes after is that Emerald ashb it's the native killer of it uh in that area of China so that's a good thing it does as near as they can determine at this point doesn't go after anything native that would cause it to be harmful to the system so if that's the case we got lucky um I have met with the new Forester from uh jcpnl she she's going to be fine okay you know she doesn't have the 35 years or four years that Moren had but she's pretty sharp and she's got real good people coaching her what's her name uh he just went right out of my head um robon yeah uh and yeah she'll do fine she'll do fine um her you know schooling background is great she just doesn't have the fish CH but two of the guys from Aspen Tree um are coaching her and you know when they're doing the the layouts for the contracts that are upcoming they're they're going with her and showing her okay this is how this works and this is why this works so that's that's really the whole thing she just going to take time but she's willing to learn and she's willing to work with all the municipalities so we're lucky we're very lucky um now this will be my last meeting um after 15 years of doing it for the bur we're going to talk to Teresa tomorrow but I have to give her some notice I'm not going to leave cold that wouldn't be right but because of the amount of work I have in Ocean Township I can't continue to do the work here in terms of permits to the standards that I set for myself and that's not fair to me it's not fair to the residents and you know it certainly isn't fair to my job in Ocean but I'm going to make sure that there's nothing out standing when I go I've already told Nick and um Dave Carl and call me if you're not sure what you're looking at you call me and I'll help them that's no problem CU nobody's getting hurt I don't want somebody trying something thinking they know what they're doing and not so it's been fun it's been a lot of fun working with y'all I mean and everyone that I worked with over all the years that were involved in this it was uh it was nice to Res be part of helping resurrect it when you know reconstituted it and see to get to where it is now just keep doing what you're doing you'll be fine you'll be fine and like I said if somebody has a question just reach out and U if I don't know the answer I can probably put you in touch with someone who will know the answer that's about it well thank you one and all good luck not the update I wanted but sorry appreciate your sorry all the service and all our conversations that you and I well you and I will still call right anybody has a question you call I mean so you know if I can help you that I just can't do it like this sure it's uh the other job is the real job you know I told Christie that I I haven't been home yet I was down here at so still got my target we don't call an ID we call a Target so all right merry Christmas healthy happy New Year everyone you and your families and need something thank you Bill you very thanks we'll be in touch oh yeah far more important thing surfing like that out all right good luck everybody thank you very much for listening and I hope I hope you learn some stuff inde all CH all right I hope so but as I said it's just not fair to the residents for me not to do it right so I mean it's still getting done but it's not getting done in its timely a manner as I would want I mean I'm working ESS almost 30 hours a week in Ocean that's enough it's earning me the look my wife don't want everybody all the guys know what that is gota stay away from that does have some big ones Norway they have they're dug they're out of the ground they're bald so this this is Christmas tree Christmas tree but could you you put it in now oh hell yeah I'd wait till it freezes they're out of the ground they're bald in they most and if you could wait till they froze AB be Rip Van Winkle sleeping you could beat hell out of the ball cuz it won't move it's going to be a rock you won't break it up at all around the beer Roots if you get it in the ground and they've got some big ones but I don't know how many they've got but the sneaky bastard in Ocean Township is trying to get e for golf course yeah falls off a truck falls off a truck but they do have some and I have how big would you say they are like 15 but I don't I mean I saw the ones that were there I didn't take them but they were big it's not something gpw wants to try it's going to be I would think every Ball's got to be three or 4,000 pounds yeah so you know I don't know how many I know that we're okay because Ocean Township has their own do that's pretty that's in the plans right put that but yeah I mean if you could get one and get it all set up but that's going to be the problem but if you can get them in March and get them in the ground they go home now they'd be well yeah but they they'd wake up and be real happy yeah just get a lot of good top soil out there in the hole I mean if the tree will fit in that square of the table top soil about 4 feet around that down 30 Ines four feet out around it's a lot of top and good stuff and that's the key M it's a good Farm top soil BR I do if I Chris I do find out how many they actually have and how many are spoken for by Friday did you get a price did you did you get a price though on it no didn't I didn't even ask because the project that um well the reason I say that I I didn't say that to be um flipping or anything because the size of the project they're doing at Ocean uh it's not going to matter because of the scope of the project you know it would be you know to find out if they'll tell me what they want by size when I speak to them on Friday I'll let you appreciate thank you and I have I have to admit it was a friend of mine that really found it Bonnie it was actually it was actually Zig pan who did the assessment on the trees but said I I just saw some and he went out and looked and said these are bake I right thank you Bill thanks Bill okay on to NJ UCF Tre inventory Grant um yeah so um I wasn't here last meeting but everyone knows that we got the gr and um since then Christin and I have spoken with um two vendors two potential vendors one being um Davey uh Andrew al man is his name the rap who is the one that I had at the top of the list when this project started after um multiple conversations across different vendors and um his updates were a little um he he he's still at the top of the list but the pricing is obviously changed dramatically over the past year and a half um the biggest disappointment and not that it came as a huge surprise to me is that the um first year of the software is now not free um so a bummer uh so that's going to eat into the um into the grant money um and the price per tree is going to go up so we're waiting on a quote from them um and also some uh questions that we had about maybe splitting this up into a two-part inventory where we might you know I'm kind of I asked the question of would be would be would we be able to apply for a second Grant to complete it um so he's doing a little research for us there and we'll see where that where that lands um the second one was you must have met somebody from um Planet Geo yeah and we spoke with them and they're they I spoke with them originally yeah the first time uh when we I started this process and they backed out um we spoke with them again and within an hour they backed out again um because they don't their their main um focus is not actually doing physical inventories in New Jersey and um and they just can't they can't compete like it's they're they have great software um but you know they gave me a quote on just doing the inventory within an hour of like $30,000 and whereas Davey is like saying okay I understand what this grant is like they're based in New Jersey they get it they're like okay we could phase this we we could work with you on prioritizing you know which parts of we we could do you know um yes if we had someone like Bill unfortunately that was walking around in a a place that wasn't inventoried and they say okay this is um you know a oak tree that's diseased he would have been able to use his phone to put that tree into the inventory right then and there and and listed like you know all the um parameters that we would want and also kind of s of Maintenance thing and it's just they very much understand the process here whereas this other person we were talking to someone from South Dakota and um even though U Michael G Martini from uh that used to work for the DP the far Street division in New Jersey now works for to them he's not even working in the inventory division so it doesn't matter they bout out those are the two people that we've talked to so far the good news is she did give me a few names of Consultants that are based in New Jersey that use their tree plotter inventory um software system so I'll reach out to them and we have a couple other names that Sherie gave us that we'll reach out to Sherie didn't express any interest for her company in in bidding on this um but you know hope with in the next you know by the new year to have um you know two or three people that we would want to look further into and then um set up demos with um people from the burrow that would actually be interacting with the software more regularly than you know we would um you know and and kind of looking at an outward facing um product too for you know for the town um that residents could kind of like you know go in and say oh you know I see this tree has information about it basically um and kind of managing you know what is out there it's great to have you know to communicate to what's happening with everybody's they know and they part of it it's kind of exting did I miss anything no no okay all right um question for the numbers is mayy the same group is it Davey Tree Service yes they also have this capabilities inventory capabil yeah they do and they have and they have aof and they have a software yeah called treekeeper um and we also talked briefly about um the community for management plan too they have some software as well what's that did does the Department of Forestry have a a software platform this is this is Da this is Davey no they don't have yeah um so so you know that depending on you know where they land this could be a relationship that could go forward um as we get to the point where we have to update that plan next year um and he said that normally that's around5 to $6,000 to to update a plan but you know I depending on um where the stewardship grants evolve to next year that could be something that maybe you know in this two-part plan if that materializes that could be part of the second part of the grant who knows or if we you know if we could do that so um with all the changes this year you know it's a new playing field and you know I think that they so far seem like they might be a good partner in kind of navigating what that is so that's where we are with that that's a lot is this something that we would put out like an RFP for would we we don't eventually get to pull the trigger or we actually don't have to because of the um because of what was it the issue if it falls under I think it's 40 something and then if it's over 6600 um it's you have to get more than one quote correct so Teresa said two quotes is all we really need um but I think that with you know with all the change that this could bring we just want to make sure that we're recommending the two best people you know um and and really how functional that like this inventory software will be I think is such a critical component um to this project being successful you know so um anyway it's it's it's wonderful where where particular you but the commission has gotten this so I'm just I'm grateful as a resident but also um impressed and pleased and just happy that this is I mean we had to do it no matter what but you guys had your eye of all you know from 18 months two almost two years ago so yeah well it's government yeah um yeah so that's where we are is is Davey who Red Bank used that bill Brooks was talking about when he was saying it was pretty pretty solid software in the beginning of the year um I I don't I think that that was no I don't think so um I don't remember who that was but I think that things have from the way he described it there was like this um physical device that they Ed that they walked around with um I did talk to them a long time ago I can't remember who it was it was a it was a consultant it wasn't um was a big company but I think that they might have um wind up putting their inventory into it tree that might be what it was which is another another um software program that um some Consultants use pretty are they all pretty much the same um I'm kind of wondering because now that everyone's required to have a tree inventory I wonder the granting agency and the Forestry Department that you know requiring this and it's come come down from legislation usually not they're not going to recommend companies but um it'd be interesting to see who's surfacing as the best providers right that's true I I think like one of the important you know things to note is that having an inventory does not mean you have to have software to manage your inventory so um you know we could have an inventory that just spits out data that gets plucked into an Excel spreadsheet but you know any inventory is as a point in time but then what do you do with it so that could be that's great but you know how is that how is that gonna be useful a year from now how is that g help shap policy interesting yeah it is well it's just gonna have to once you have it it's gonna have to be updated constantly right well I think that that's one of the benefits of of making sure that you know what whomever we go with that this software is part of plan because that that becomes the tool for managing it so as maintenance is done the the the request for maintenance and the you know the job list would be populated through the software program so then we have to train somebody in yes correct yeah yes yeah um but it I mean in looking at them they're pretty intuitive like it's not difficult so so you would say remove this tree and that tree would you'd be looking look at it through the software basically the software would kind of tell you where to go and then you could manage that tree based on yes and you could update it from like at that point in time or even if you said not even remove this tree go take a look at this tree someone would go there with their phone and say okay I looked at the tree and it's okay or it's not or if it just generated a list like every year of like a TI system of these were the trees were watching yes and yeah absolutely that's what it does and like it prioritizes you know based on whatever your criteria are and planting and then yes and you could put in um planting sites uh which is another you know part of the you know in doing this the inventory they can actually recommend planting sites and and put them onto the map this is what yeah this tree canopy yeah yeah and so um you know the tree tree canopy inventory would be something that you might want to do in like like um in the Natural Area as opposed to going Tree by Tree by tree they would kind of like do an assessment from an aerial view of like kind of what is going on in there but that's that's that is not yeah you know not higher on well I guess I'm just showing this something I picked up and it shows you know like the green areas are where all the trees are then the gray or gray infrastructure where or where you can't plant trees but it would highlight something showing where that would highlight the heat island like that we need yeah right that would be important that's like a layer of it right so I think that's great I look forward to seeing the demo could we do the da like coming you it's online like you could you could participate in the in the demo um yeah I'm just wondering if you could like if you threw it out to the residents and maybe you get some people that were really interested in doing some or gosh not yet easy like choose as we get closer but no this this needs I you know the first demo I think it's super important to have you know like maybe rich and Nick there who are going to the PE be the people using it and then um you know we want to make sure that they're on board with you know the top two or three that we would like to recommend since they are going to be the primary users of this um and then you know take it from there I don't that yeah yeah um can I just Jill touched on the cfmp um we invited Sher to come today to give us more info on the guidelines but she said there still aren't any oh really um so I reached out to the D noting that our cfmp expires December 31st 2024 like if are are you planning to extend these deadlines if you still don't have guidelines to update the plan and they said no um we are not planning to we are not anticipating extending any plans since it expired December 31st 2024 and plans are retroactive to January 1 of the calendar year they are approved Ren has until December 31st 2025 technically to get the plan written so that's where that stands just so everyone is aware of that um I'll continue to to follow any guidelines and let everyone know but as of now we're supposed to be updating it but we don't know how or what right right exactly they did say it was first quarter at when I was at the conference they said first quarter they have the new I think that they said it originally they were going to have them by the end of this year though yeah so they're supposed to have them like the Federation then they're going to have at JLM then they year quarter so I'm just keeping everybody in the loop on that one we're H that it might just still be worth being if we could all be familiar with what we have now and kind of just thinking about things we'd want to include because we're we're going to get a a consultant but they're probably going to ask us for our input right they're not to write it because they don't live in this town you have it right we but yeah I yeah but I mean I don't know do you like yeah have we thought about maybe just might be worth kind of discussing things we would want them to focus on or everyone reviewed it I've read it it's been a while I can recirculate it if you want yeah okay all right anything else F no thank you very much all um Green Team the Natural Area update Natural Area um so the Natural Area is um puts on money the environmental and the Natural Area both donate some money to get some um be root trees that we're going to have to pop into um the area that's cleared up by the cell tower um we're still trying to figure out what to do whether to spray the area which is what was recommended by some of the park people but don't know that everybody's crazy about that um so we would plant the trees around the outside and not because you not plant them we going to spray so that's still up what do you spray what did they spray well there's just there's there are the park system um they've done a lot of spray in um just to kill all the super inv bases oh yeah gotta yeah and it's so um they said you can plant grasses grasses don't succumb to these chemicals but um trees wouldn't anything else would so we're just trying to figure that out stuff um the green team is is um we still have our colon gardien that we're working on um on Third Street Trail and we're going put some things in there and to do some more planting in the spring um I'm trying to think anything else on Green Team I know swap yeah Sports Swap is yes coming up this week on Saturday um they're just trying to get it's free anybody that has used equipment that their kids have outgrown or that they don't want to use anymore can drop it off at no school and they're trying to and then you can pick up something you can look and see um they just you know reuse recycle um so that would be great he wants to um participate in that all right sounds good thank you Bonnie uh community outreach and Leah didn't come on right no she was not gonna be able to attend all right um that moves us to the Christmas tree replacement update and sure's not here either um I did however get a copy of the soil sample for that area um just recently and pass it around it's not you summary of it of what a summary you'll see ch's gonna put it up here kind of it's a well I mean they're really I mean this is pretty much you'll see when the graph goes up I mean this is pretty much it it looks it it is what it is we are extremely very we're low in nutrients basically it's the long and short of it all um so you know what bill was talking about I think without blowing this out of proportion um I think it looks like we are going to have to take a good perimeter around there go down deep and give it a lot of uh good soil to work with uh at best we're adequate I think that's uh phosphorus that first yeah column and then uh potassium what's that you have a tree recommendation associated with these yeah down here is the um and who made that Norway spruce this comes from the uh Spectrum analytics you uh oh right up on right yeah y I can't seem to make it much larger so they said Norway SP would be a good tray that's right yes yeah y I mean it's kind of sad I I walked by there today with my dog I thought wow the tree looks really good and I walked up and I'm like looking at it I'm thinking how so the G from the dry C walks out she we saw them sticking the branches in they fluffed it up they and then they have the lights on so I have to that it looks I mean and then I happen to have those was still on my walk I saw Dave Carl and I said oh the tree looks good and you can see had some branches and um D taped them on there camouflage it's not lit up right now for some reason the lights weren't on um this morning this afternoon um but it's just it's it is it is starting to look a little better not not even before it had the face well has a lot of character but um yeah so I think it'll make it it'll be okay for the holiday right it'll make it I think we said it the last Mee I think we're gonna miss this tree when it's gone oh yeah maybe it could beated do they always it or is this this I think I mention that think they're responding to I had an offer from um an individual who works in Fair Haven who lives in Little Silver that needs to because she's doing work in her yard remove a tree that started as a little teeny sapling and is now 20 years old and about 20 feet tall and I saw a picture of it it's beautiful and I said oh my gosh you're just going to get rid of it I said we need a tree and fairy so I I mean I don't know if you could dig out it might be worth just it's a lovely tree she would give it to us but we have to dig it out but dig it out I don't know dig it out I mean that's what they do they dig the tree out the wallet but um I just is an option well it sounds like we might have I mean we have trees available to us I think the availability of the trees not the well this would be a pre tree okay because I mean I don't know Bill Brooks I mean I had gotten that quote from Capell for ended up being $3,000 for delivery planting everything okay for 15 foot yeah Green I got to imagine digging out and balling a tree 20 feet it's got to can't be cheap can't be cheap but it it's almost as much as taking it down right it does happen yeah there people do it all the time be something how long is she gonna hold on to that tree she said she's GNA do the work in Spring that would yeah sounds good you have a picture you want me to share about me of the trade or next meeting if you want to send it to me for next meeting a picture um I'll find it I'll send it to you okay I don't you know I didn't go down the driveway to I have to go see I don't know what kind of tree it is um um shopping would the next step be the markout or what what would happen next assuming we can get a tree yeah I think Mike would be better to speak to that I think he's been on top of it I'm sure we would need a mark out or was there already a mark out some power over there I think it's probably smart to plan on it turns out for some reason we don't need it then fine that's just that takes just a week maybe okay all right um moving on to the salm oak tree Bonnie I I know not there my I sitting there I know I got I did get some fancy fing I like to um clothes like like and sing that thought looks you know fancier than normal and I have the sign that Carolyn Ferguson made to hang on it have all the parts I just I I couldn't I haven't have shorts I've texted her a bunch of times and I mean I'm sure she's super busy um I mean I will just throw one thing out Saturday is supposed to be 60 and it's going to pour rain on Sunday if anybody want do if anybody wanted to do this on Saturday me we got approval we're all set um Ines I could well good thing public nobody listens um we um yeah my my only concern is I I did actually I did speak to Sher um and she did say that you know she wouldn't recommend planning this time of year for those okay she thought really it would be best this spring and I I mean I believe me I I do I would love to see these things around but I also don't want to see them no I don't want to see them dead two weeks later no it it might be so can I okay so we should probably do this I mean maybe you do an early aror day like in April i' would love to take advantage of the spring rain and get this in the ground you don't want to do it late so as soon as we could do this when it's maybe early April and I think maybe we should pick the date and then if we do want to yeah and and involve the kids and then you could give this a shorts a date and then yes let her yeah say all right we can make that or we can't because if we do wait because I'm sure once the new school years will you know the 2024 school I'm sure she's got a calendar already filled with okay things for the kids okay me just figure out how we want to do it yeah and Bonnie this would wrap in well with our Arbor Day celebration so if we can maybe figure maybe I know not on Arbor Day or late April maybe early April I still think it would uh be applicable so that's that's a good idea especially with the kids at sickles maybe we could even do a giveaway too h no just a little tree I don't know inspired by this woman who told me she has this huge tree that I just sent to um Christie that this child has treasured this little thing that is now you know 15t tall and I thought they do grow they do you know oh sure it is it is I all right we going to move on to uh tree removal permit data just is this this is the same yeah is there just check towards the end or you like I could just print a monthly for that down for November that's do you um chrisy do you do you have a number associated with each one I do count them but I was wondering if it's possible to put a number next to it some put a number next to it or and and the only other piece of data that personally you know when I make a report to the council I'd like to report on this but um just the bulk number so like the number of applications and the total number of trees removed is that sure is that possible I can put that in the bottom I don't want to create a lot of extra work but if it's just a matter of total sale you know a simple sale this is all private right this is all on private resal do we have a list of the other trees that have been come down that yes as well this is the that you're familiar with this spreadsheet from Nick yeah like the hazard free inventory we trees that are being monitored on the watch list or or Hazard whether it's been inspected scheduled or completed in the last couple years that's this Sol okay so this includes every tree that was taken down by DPW or on public proper probably not yeah so for example if Frontier came in the Natural Area to do some tree removal they're probably or if they're and B you'll be more familiar with the details of that work but this is just Hazard trees this is that's different from what like the Natural Area would have removed or if there was trees removed at their street trail but once a tree is removed it's off this list this it's just the hazard trees that are in town that's a good yeah or it would have a completion date and this coln work completed this is a list I just asked from um engineer Pinsky this is the way he keeps it organize his staff and work in budget so the only way to know the number of trees removed is probably like from an invoice unless unless they keep that r well this is the work completed wouldn't that be the number of trees um well if I'm tracking what bones questioning and I could be wrong I I'm thinking that there's more than one bucket one is the trees that were tracking that are hazardous and then the the other bucket is the the the the trees that come down because they have been deemed hav ser and now are gone right those are completed where's that where's that section of the list work completed that one work completed yeah one coln fourth yeah they're in order of time yeah so it but then there's another bucket which is to do more with like um management of wooded areas where trees are removed I think that's what you were asking about I mean there's work completed in 2023 there's one two three four five six does that mean six trees were taking like where do you see last line was the mcarter park trees that were taken down over Columbus Day see that's the last so that's that you guys got the report on like that one that's that last one so that's rated here I don't are are you thinking there's another list somewhere that Miss I guess I'm just trying to interpret what this means um I guess I'm it would be nice if they if it showed total tree yeah the way I'm reading it is if there's a completion date that means the tree has been removed and it's Doney does that make sense yes right so that's the way I interpret it as well and then the count the ones that are some like are reported and they just are not completed the work has been scheduled but that it has not been completed does that include the trees on the county road do we think I the on buing think so because those are they're public but they're County trees aren't they when we do the county trees or they they're not coming out of our budget yeah they're not managed by us uh they're well I would I would S I would not manage best but you could still assert a little it's it's an on property it's part of that isn't it part of the Natural Area there long ridge are you saying it's I I think I'm saying it wouldn't be up here here because it's not going to be managed by Fair Haven that's managed by Bill count tell us right I guess I don't know they want us to tell them when we do when we do trees on the county road right that that came up was it last meeting yeah flag that um I don't think it's technically is it County right away I think that they're trimming the trees because it's encroaching on the county road or where the power lines I there in people's yards right along with a lot of those trees they do look they look dead and me there's a lot of trees that are in trouble one that's SC I don't know why they all die all a sudden it's or they've been dying it's kind of great area I guess we can read it like better just I mean if you're going to say a report we're trying to make an argument for planting more trees that whole thing this is how many trees came down residence this how many trees the town took down many trees were planted net loss y we want to be able to get a handle on that particularly that information coming from this body one of the things Council will be looking for whole goal the new ordinance is to just net positive and then BR the inventory when you're starting about the age of the trees when you can say that you know we have you know this many trees are 00 20 you know and and we really need to start building it up we'll thank us down the road it's true Christie um can I or should you can you reach out to Nick and just clarifying um exactly what this report means as far as I mean I I think it it means that you know we're completed those trees came down that is correct it's paid for okay what else do you want me to clarify so what happened in 2019 oh I just didn't include that so this is so I just did the last couple of years okay so you produced this he gave me a spreadsheet and I just deleted all the the trees that that were not either inspected scheduled or completed prior to 22 okay okay these are the trees removed from public land that even managed the removal is that yeah we paid for the removal getting Clos it's um I wonder if this takes into account trees in the micro project areas yes well they are listed there micro projects micro projects mic oh yes yes yes but nothing's been they've been identified but obviously well some of that definitely has been completed so I'm I'm confused on who pays for this taxpayers okay sometimes not out of our budget not J Tree Commission because when I was reading the um the community Forest plant it did say in the budget that half the money was for planting and half of the money was for removal and it sounded like in the plan that the shade tree was I I don't know why I understood that I I mean I don't know I just it know always confusing to me we're we you know do we is any of our budget going toward anything but planting trees's the budget for tree removal there's a there's a line item in the budget and who okay by Teresa um and Nick and those judgment calls I mean honestly we I think we know we're trying to move that information here so reporting and stuff starts to blow through you guys um um or certainly you know in tandem with the work of the commission so it's stuff you should know it's part of your purview um but that work has move forward for insurance reasons like haard trees have to be locked it's an obligation of the municipality or Insurance wouldn't cover us if something happened and we didn't have a hazardous tree inventory sort of like checks the box but um it's my sense that we're going to well certainly part of mine that that information would flow more in pandom like the PS work and chrisy does a good job of sort of making that happen I just curious to me did they just put how much money they budget for tree removal every year who decides that I'll tell you it's higher every year and so they just predict that they're going to be taking down more trees based on what that's a good question um is it necessarily more trees or is it cost increasing cost take down a tree it's that's a fair question from both I mean are we taking down the trees for some reason and is the cost of remov I the cost of removes going up um but I think the bigger picture is and what I've heard the commission say is um sure we know trees have to come down from time to time um but you'd like to see a tree planted when a tree is removed and that's not in the budget that is not in the budget there no there's no shouldn't there be right and and is that our job to plant the tree or is it should yeah just who there it our job to advocate for the treat it should be part of the yeah we're taking this down so let's think about what we're going to replant there yeah well I'm thinking that I mean in the future as we get more and more access to data and um I think our you know tree purchasing program I think can be a great mechanism for that I think it's an easy simple way to an affordable way to not replace every single tree that comes down but definitely heal no every sing too but out of our money I think we can we can help along those ways I think well that's a great program to to replace the trees that have been removed on private property it's beautiful but I think you can do it for public property I mean if if the if sha tree wanted to you know use some of our um what do we call our trust fund money um to you know budget maybe every year um well we can get into that maybe we're going to talk about some future plans but you know say listen we're gonna automatically do five trees every year so just be a number of say I um what it's just a little plug with the new ordinance a theater for yeah I'll believe that new ordinance mechanism in there right for um you know applicants who may show up for an appeal to offset their obligation with a donation or a fee Patriot trust fund would we give you more money to be able to yeah yeah so we need to get those feed that's a big right anything else I think we're moving on to tree canopy and Equity data Mike D'Angelo yeah so this is kind of piggybacking on what Jill was mentioning before we had a discussion in our last meeting just to bring everybody up to SK to speed um what is our tree canopy how do we figure it out uh there is another measure or parameter called the tree Equity score and what does that mean how does it involve so I uh I reached out to uh the New Jersey D and I spoke with this nice man uh Brian and uh it's the the the overlying theme is it's it's tough to determine but uh he he kind of looked he he directed me to a site that Peter also uh sent to Christie that we were looking at last time that was the the um American forestry uh data which showed uh the tree uh Equity score um which is helpful uh the tree Equity score is determined by a number of parameters uh your canopy and your canopy goal and then also priorities which include income health race language age uh heat severity uh impervious sub impervious surfaces um and if you if I don't know if Christy could pull it up we're looking at it last time you could look at our tree Equity score in Fair Haven there are five different quadrants and we vary between I have it up my computer here between a tree Equity score of 93 to uh 99 how do we use this information um is is a completely different ball of wax um that's the that's the website I sent you I'll get to that one in a second chrisy it's the other one that Peter sent I don't know if you have that one that was the tree Equity score that is uh it's tree Equity score.org anyway I'll keep talking um so because of where live uh and the socioeconomic status of our area and we are not really in an urban area you can obviously see that we have a tree Equity score that's fairly High uh especi except for maybe the area around where the Acme uh and the middle of town is uh yeah that's perfect thank you if you you could you can kind of um blow that up and and scroll into that you could see a little bit more closely what our Tre Equity score is as far as canopy um he directed me to another website which I think would maybe help uh Jill and her Endeavors with um our evaluation of uh our tree inventory it's uh and that's the other website I sent you that you were looking at before this is this is the uh this is the tree Equity score website but this is New Jersey Forest adapt it's NJ Force adapt. Ruckers doedu and I thought I was really excited about this site because you could just hit click on start collecting Maps um and you can see there's a lot of data themes that we can use and investigate including climate uh carbon characteristic species uh whether or not we're uh you know we're liable for pest Pest and disease but if you click on land use and Forest cover this this kind of and you can you could just kind of um go up to the upper left and it the thing that's blinking it says please select the location yep and put in Mammoth County then you could just municipality Fair Haven and you click on these little uh toggle buttons on the left and the last time they they evaluated a canopy for us was 2016 or last time any canopy was evaluated was 2016 um and he said and I was having trouble this site is I was so excited about it but it's kind of clunky and it doesn't really give you a lot of information as much as you want um but he was looking at it as we looked at it together and he said our canopy in 2016 was about 33 34% if you go back to the tree Equity score site our canopy if you average it out is about 42% and then we got into a big discussion about what canopy means and goals and things of that nature and and do you compare yourself to other towns do you compare yourself to other towns in your in your area such as your county or in New Jersey and he says you know it's no one really you know no one really uses the canopy as as um as a goal to compare yourself to other towns or where you are relative to other areas in New Jersey how they use the canopy is where your needs are in your specific area and this is what we were alluding to with the inventory so obviously if we're going to focus on any area to plant trees in the public space it would be in that Central area that we see on the screen now that's a that has a tree Equity score of 93% you got to take into account obviously though impervious Sur uh surfaces and then I brought up things like you know we have this these the Fair Haven Fields obviously we're not going to plant a tree in the middle of a baseball field and he said that's why canopy is really not always that helpful these are more guides and um tools and measures to use to help your own town to kind of see where your needs are if you are indeed going to plant trees um where where where the need is and if you go by the tree Equity score that you know we looked at last time and Peter provided you know obviously in the center of town is where we would would need to do that um but if you go back to the other site um the New Jersey Forest adapt um if I could just get it working um there are a lot of measures that we could use uh potentially to help us with the uh tree inventory uh such as you know the carbon burden in that area the heat index um if you go back uh to select yeah you can go up and down and you could you can you know evaluate all these measures and see you know we take a look specifically at Fair Haven um and then you could see like you know this I think she clicked on I don't know what she clicked on here oh this this is pretty cool like how things you know what what grows when and you know the density of growing the temperature in that in our air area uh especially throughout the year so a lot of little measures that I thought would be pretty cool to use but again it just it's a little bit of a clunky see it's just it doesn't give you a lot of information it doesn't really work that is there supposed to be a math like when you put slide to toggle over is a map to come up yeah so yeah there's the map right if we zoom out a lot like it seems like the pixels of the data are really big compar but I mean quite honestly we care about Fair Haven right I mean I gu our general area see so what I was asking is it working or is there that's another good question is are we supposed to get more granular map mapping information uh this I've tried several times and I looked at it with him too and I'm like this is really not working well for me I thought maybe it was my connection um but it just doesn't like if you go back again again you can select other things um you know what we were talking about species and like it says here species I'm like great we could look at you know what kind of species we have in our area uh in future and it just doesn't work so I mean but you could see like you could click on Fair Haven if you want to see if we how many Pines we have um you would I thought maybe you're right Peter it doesn't get this granular but then it just does this so maybe we have to maybe we have to upload the data and help them out but is the tree yeah yeah exactly right but it's but um he was know he was high in the site but again a lot I think a lot of this data was collected about you know nine years ago seven to nine years ago so it's the last one was 2016 but suffice it to say we had that big discussion about canopy and tree Equity score and how we use it it's basically a tool to use in your own individual municipality to look at and localize areas where you think there is need uh not to compare to other municipalities adjacent to you and not to compare to your regular you know to your otherwise area because there are so many variables impervious surfaces places where you would not plant a tree things of that nature so um I thought it was an interesting exercise uh I did a deep dive into it I wish this website worked a little bit better I'm keep on top of it because maybe there's something I'm missing that we're not seeing here because I think it could be a good tool for us um but you know suffice to say in my my investigation you know canopy is something that we could use for uh Fair Haven individually but we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to other adjacent areas does anybody have any questions so um Mike the last time they did how did they do this is it like you said 2016 was the last time they did this yeah yeah if you go back to uh where is it the New Jersey Force adap site uh one of the first parameters is when you know when it was looking up um forestry the last data collected was 2016 and before that 2011 so obviously 2011 was right before Sandy and 2016 was four years later what was that yeah uh perc impervious coverage oh well they got that information yeah well that's that's kind of that's that's easy to like you could do that off of Google Maps I was hoping that you we get a little more information about species and then you know exactly where there's one where you can click on you could toggle the ashbo and you could see where it's affecting trees in our area it wasn't working well but I can see how if if the shade tree commission developed um clear understanding which I you already are starting to sort of crystallize your understanding about where trees are critical and maybe marginalized or threatened in particularly in the areas where we have extensive infer like I can see several applications that might come for the land use boards where they want to have guidance from the shade tree commission um if it's in a very sensitive threatened area where once you lose trees it's very hard to get them back in you know it can see I get see the need for a land boort to be able we don't have a mechanism for that right now um there's nobody on the CH tree commission that's connected to a land use board right how some of the appointments okay no well even if it's done in a memo form to identify an era of sensitivity as it concerns a commissions per viiew just sharing that awareness with the land Sports be eliminating is there about buffering and other things but not necessar absolutely there could there could be a lot of applications and hopefully hopefully if we do get this tree inventory off the ground which seems like we definitely are we could maybe reverse it and provide that data to this this website this record I think a lot of what you are looking for there is um something that we will we will wind up having you know for ourselves like species and um and cover and um you know age of treat and stuff like that but it would I I I imagine some other towns probably upload it to to Ruckers what they have for their inventory yeah yeah yeah I just don't know how like Crow sourcing how you identify tree species from above I don't think you can but maybe there's a oh maybe there is something I don't know how they do it but there it is one of the toggle uh applications on this I just wish like the likelihood of that species to be in this area right maybe they're just waiting for us the thank you m thanks all right moving on to the sh Tre commission annual report um justy circulated this uh few weeks ago y speak I I put it in with the agenda and everything yep um did everybody get a chance to look it over this is just GNA be for that just a draft draft it is a draft if anybody can think that's all right if anybody uh if you want to look on it look at it comment on it send me something or um also by chrisy I guess they can't any edits I'm Happ and then um put together and add to it I was just trying to highlight our accomplishments for the year and accomplishments things that we're going to be looking for in the future and things that we're going to be looking for from uh Council and uh anything you want to give me a heads up on now no no all right well did you did you get it would I'm sure I did think I email with you one of the things and I did touch on the fact that you know there should be a um you know some thought given to you know if a tree does come down it probably yeah should policy be put up um I think I would guess the budget to take down a tree more than planting yeah it's a lot more than planting but I would think you know if you look at it on a per tree basis I you know if it's a big tree you know I'm just guessing here it's to $2,000 to take down what is it compared you know to plant another trees 30 or 40% of that so I mean it's 2,000 take the tree down another you know let's just say even 8 n00 bucks to plant another one I think it's great invest so things like that so if anything is anyway like Frontier if they're they're cutting it down and they're taking the stump out did they ever did they just put in plant the tree I just don't know if they would do that have the trees well I mean that something yeah Workforce any so I mean but yeah I think you know you to your point I mean you're out there you're already doing something you're already taking the tree down how much more your guys are already out there how much more you to plant one nearby or I mean you you put here I I did read through it the budget request um um we need I mean do we have an idea of what we want to ask for we want to ask for 5,000 except for the uh for redoing the um Forest yeah Community Forest that what we thought do we want that in there we want you want money for I mean these are some of the questions I so I mean my thinking and again we talk about it now I mean with the the grant money and we know the costs are going to go up substantially I I was kind of already thinking that whatever we're given as a as our budget isn't really going to come probably close to some of the costs that we're going to incur for in additional projects yeah I would I would say that I mean our budget roughly is I mean what's our total budget 12,000 chrisy something last year and that's broken up between you know some bills money right um education our credit train yeah if you want to do Christmas tree next year you want to have that in there you want to be prepared in case the guidelines come out you don't want to have to be on a scramble you'd want to put the an estimate for commun fory management Plan update in there um because the budget goes through a process so things will get cut but um it's probably this you know the smart thing to do is think about the things that you're not making anything up all of these things are things you you've talked about there's been great follow through they're awful with the community wants to see happen you have to have your for Manas plan I'm or else guys kind go away so um I think putting it putting things in is just um better to be prepared and if for some reason it gets C right but we are subject to a cap of I think it was 2% well there's a the yeah well there's something this would I was able to max out the cap I think they gave us an extra 400 bucks that's did that across the whole budget but I I think we even as a governing body we still need to know if we reduce your budget by 5,000 then we need to know you're not going to be able to do commun a forest management plan in 2024 so if you don't put the number in there and there's no action item for that we they won't know do you know what I mean it just it won't be on their on their radar screen right because by the time it gets to them it's been predigested by staff a finance committee it's gone through a whole you know SI of sure yeah yeah the the plan is on there under a request of B counsel and there's a line that says they may apply for a grant help fund this plan up or need Council support to fund this writing of the plan to remain in compliant so any wording you want to change add edit just don't we want to have firm numbers here like that's what I'm just saying don't we want to sure but we when we when I looked at the numbers earlier I mean we we couldn't just go oh we want another you know 67,000 we share their budgets and ask them to ask do we have our budget for next year no we don't we you sub at this time of the year we submit our budget reposed and basically it's you know I mean the line items are what they are they can be moved we can use you know we can move money here and there to certain means but it we couldn't add the parameters that we had to work with correctly if I'm wrong we couldn't just say listen we want another five she just interested in do something this weed we had like a% deal this is an unusual thing that we have to do this I think you know we have to we're not just this is a the community for required so I I haven't read it so I feel bad that maybe I'm saying something that is already embedded in the report I don't know the 2% cap is it's not your job to stay it's two it's your job to tell us what's necessary for the commission's work if if that exceeds 2% then that's going to get dealt with at finance committee level or when it gets Council um that you know you have to say what's necessary for the commission to continue doing what you were formed to do so if the report needs to be if you need to budget for the report and exceeds the 2% and Captain so if you want to say we're not going to get into it until 2025 um I don't know I hate putting things like that off because it takes so long think we should I think that we should plan for it because they you know on the guidelines don't you know it's the last week of 2025 we rush but I I that's fine I mean I I we can pile on but I just I just felt like the reality is our our budget overall was $112,000 it's been $12,000 I'm picking that number I don't know spot but it's been $112,000 bre down five or six years by paying bill and Sh but it's Gonna Change that's that's all gonna change the line I mean our individual line items don't exact yeah there you know if we have a we have 500 extra in here in this line item like miscellaneous or um know we're left over 500 bucks from the Arbor Day thing that we can always use it her yeah something else so I mean the line item is not super critical but the amount it sounded like we you know I wasn't going to be able to put in like if we need an extra 10 grand or 15 grand or whatever it is to complete inventory you complete our inventory it was GNA have to be made up by the the town's budget yeah that very well make it happen and of course Teresa wants everybody to stay under the 2% C but that you know at the end of the day it's the council's decision to decide whether or not um we have to cut somewhere else in order to make sure that we can complete the inventory and be prepared to um initi the community Forest management plan say guidelines will come out this year right yeah um and that'll probably exceed the 2% cap depending on how depending on how she puts those numbers together like there's going to be a line item for tree remote there's going to be a line item that says sh tree commission it says house she'll pay bill or whoever is in that position um and same thing for sh's fees um but again and I don't even one I I understand what you were told but I also know you got you have to have these documents um they're critical to the work of the commission so and it's up to you guys ultimately but I include it oh absolutely absolutely I I agree fully I I just I so I got to work within a certain parameter and at that point you know the the increase is minimal and you know well just to pay Sher if she's going to have if she's going to fill some of Bill's you know if her rate is quite different than bills um and with him not here we still have applications to process um somebody's going to have to look at them and if it's sh the cost is going to go up so talk more about that another time perhaps but um or maybe we have somebody else to either way those are costs that are just a function of the commission's work and what we have to do BR it's gonna change the line it a reason why we need those fees on tree removables to be really it's it's such a lost way to get money to fund the things that we need I mean if we got money there's a Tipping Point at where you want the fees to be within reached so people follow the right procedure if well the penalty is yeah um Jill do you have an idea of any like the Gap that we would have to fill I mean just even an estimate and we you don't have to have it now I can I reach out to you like this week or next week yeah I I I asked them to actually do multiple um a multiple tiered proposal um one where we just stay within the 15 ,000 including the software one where we would do it in a two- Park plan and one where we would go to the burrow to fund the remainder of the inventory okay so I I don't anticipate I mean I I don't have that right now um but interestingly like you know where we were being quoted about $4 a tree um 18 months ago I expect that to be more like $5 a tree okay so it's pretty significant increase um uh you know if we had it's hard to say exactly how many Street trees we have um you know I had one person say you know we probably have 3,000 to 3500 and another person say we have over 5,000 based on what they're looking at when they look at us you know 2 so um you it's there going to be another 15,000 could be yeah yeah I think that's yeah um so I mean I I'll be putting that in and with an explanation it's best we can do see what happens and it needs to get done so it's either GNA I mean the money whether it's sitting over your fund or our fund right you know it's it's going to be used but I it should be budgeted somewhere whether it's under this shade tree line item or not needs there's going to be a a that we need to f yeah okay any edits and I'll continue to provide a draft I guess the next meeting with any of your comments Incorporated okay could we have a the budget last year and then the compared on what we like actually last year and then what we project so you can see like we just spend wait right we had all this money left over we last year yeah I mean there was 3 2500 or $3,000 in the yeah it line not okay so kind of started paying for this clan that just saying just saying we can't save that but there are other line associated with trees that you guys kind of touched on this earlier that are not captured as part of your maybe they should be and I'll just say that maybe it should be made more clear what we spend in actual Tre removal on public lands or um what we actually spend um on processing tree permit removal applications you know what are the fees what is that amount and What's the total collected annually and do we what's the what's the line it for that because we know we spend more than we collect we we spend more in processing those applications than we collect from the applicants so we already have an imbalance there and we and we know we spend we have Consulting fees um which is critical because it's a resource you need for decision making to have um um say example sh but there's there's no offset we don't have a way to offset except for maybe grants um but T right now we don't have it so there are expenditures that are in the budget that have to do with managing our trees that aren't necessarily sha tree Commission line items does that make sense yeah because you have your community so anyway the the I'm just tossing it out there perhaps you'd want to see all that when you say I want to see the budget like what did we have budgeted last year you would had your education Arbor Day right we asked for $122,000 last year that just um it's it's been pretty much flat across the board for the past three or four years Christie is that fair to say sorry that looking back it's it's been flat last year's budget I know when Dave was it my sh buet when Dave prepared it um he did put in a big request because we were unsure if we were going to get the grant or what the status of even applying for the grant was just unknown um I you know 10 10 11 and I think his request yeah so it was 11 last year or our 2023 budget 2023 was 12 well and I think he you know he put in a request for something like $36,000 right so obviously it was a big leap but we you know talked about it it was GNA potentially if we didn't get a grant we were going to need this money um we we W up at 12 so we didn't get approved because the inventory mind no so yeah we we there's a certain reality that you know I wanted to approach the budget with I was going to come at you with another 30 grand but I mean we are we have made progress um we did you know yeah Jill did this part we got 15 grand I I think you know we can explain we probably going to need another 15 yeah we'll try I we'll try to you could say to complete the project it will require another and you how that's funded projected cross this way and then once we have this inventory done then we're eligible to get more grants right GRS so that's the big the big argument to get yes spend the money now we won't have to keep bugging you from more money every and I think you know and you can go outside of um go outside just like the urban and Forestry there's like other grants in the world planting grants but you know the general rule is you have to know what you have in order to right request a plant this really good argument y um so yeah in the um you the next couple weeks if someone thinks of something that and how much did you give Community appeal this year 2600 bucks yeah the current balance I just checked was the current balance is 5,889 in your trust okay and that that lives on not at the end of the calendar year like if you had money left in year that's ours to Sur but the trust fund right which is it carries over year to year right now that's just donations and stuff that comes through the community appeal Community appeal this year was 2430 So eventually would the fees go into that yes okay yes that's I know I know working on it every everyone's working on it next line I was planning discussion for uh 2024 projects um like we touched on last meeting I think we want to try to be uh a little more proactive in you know getting an agenda together uh so we're not you know coming up to the end of the year I think we've all seen how long it takes to get projects moving uh Christmas tree uh Salam types of things that I think now are slated for hopefully the first quarter of next year um but uh perhaps we want to think of a few more things that we want to address or tackle um I think we need to begin that discussion you know either this meeting or the next meeting early on so we can uh if we need Council approval we can we have to think of along these lines like if we come up with an idea in one month or or at one of our meetings it's another month before we meet again and in the meantime it's going to have to go to council yeah and depending on where that meeting schedule is that could be another month so reality is we come up with an idea it could be two more meetings by the time when you know we get the H the ground money that I mean that's generous yeah I mean that's really is the Christmas tree the budget for this is isn't the Memorial Park committee do they get a budget is are they involved in this too no no there's so it's just Shay Tre is paying for this tree well I am not the one to say that to you um no was um it's I personally think you are the right entity to choose and oversee the installation of a tree on public land right that's responsibility doesn't belong to somebody else um but determining that that's a priority and that that needs to happen in 2024 you guys can make a recommendation and put in put in a request for the the funds that you think would cover that I think I mean I maybe everybody's kind of talked to other people about this I mean um I know a lot of people that would be willing to make donations to this Christmas tree issue so I I don't I really I you know I think that we can get that ball really moving um and you know we'll talk more to Mike about it when he gets to uh the next meeting I think I don't think funding is going to be the problem I really don't I think be more question for you guys where and what we got to be a tree lighting in Fair Haven I don't have the answer to this I'm just asking you we happen to have a Christmas tree in a Memorial Park at the you know intersection of Main and Maine if but where is the right if we didn't have that tree there we were just saying well we should have a tree lighting where should that be we're just kind of assuming it should it maybe that it belongs there I'm not saying I have an alternative answer but we're going to do this we should ask the big questions um first first is to make sure it's like stress test the current condition maybe it should be there but I don't know have we looked at other locations would that even be worthwhile have we thought about what kind of event we actually want what's happens I I'm just say throw it out there before like that's place to stick a 20 foot tree that's gonna grow to be 60 feet like you should think about it just getting a bigger tree is like an instant appeal idea I don't know if it's in my best plan long term I just would say we want to encourage I would want everyone to encourage people to think long term because once the tree goes in that's where it should stay I mean it is I don't if anybody has an idea or if you want to even have that discussion right now but I mean suddenly now it's a 2025 PL um you know I mean it is a thorough Fair it is um it's the the tree lighting that's where Santa comes in that's where all the businesses are because it is part of the business walk you know um it's just very crowded in that part that's it is problem I mean and it's a busy Corner I've talked to a lot of families that literally are afraid because they the the road stays open yet we draw a crowd to that location for this you know annual lovely Charming Small Town Event but they it made me answer floing Rogue I don't I'm I'm not suggesting that ton I'm just saying there are stressors there's there's constraints associated with that location and um yeah I don't know it we should know what we're getting into I'm really sorry you should be um well Point well let me ask you this if we did not do anything and we left the trolley Brown Christmas tree there very very are we would we ever move the tree light such question I it's another way to comment the matter right it's it's a great question um I I do think it would be worth a conversation with the Business Association and R and just to revisit the whole thing you know because changing the tree is on one piece of an overall um picture that we first want to make sure the pictures the right picture before we sure yeah it's just me I planning it's a little bit plan planning involved it's always a good thing yeah yeah we could brainstorm that if not there then where right I mean we have I mean Carter park or something you know something like that where it's out of The Fray and still accessible and close right then some people would want visibility though because I think you know I like I like the visibility fact of having a tree in more of a public area near the businesses I mean people would say that as well so something that brainstorm I seeing like right near the uh the entrance where we're looking for the uh what was it the ash trees um you know what I mean like right near uh the back of navu kind of right in that it's kind of right on the road I don't know Mar Park okay we have two spots here marked for sell o right now you know but they're still my porch so planning still time um I mean mcarter Park could guess I mean why don't I uh since I open that P I did I'm sorry no um why don't I take responsibility for initiating you know after we get on the other side of the holiday season initiating a dialogue with the Business Association and wck and maybe the fire department because they do something on December 17th they have the Santa thing um not the Santa thing but Santa right and um and see if because there's other stakeholders involved in like a tree lighting because we're just talking about the tree but that's because there's a tree lighting and there's business district and um our wreck department helps to make that happen every year so we're already putting tax dollars into us why don't I yeah what do you think of that that means in January I can see about starting a conversation and then maybe by February it we'll take couple meeting cycle and then come back to you if we had somebody maybe like the grand plan of of the Memorial Park is what you're think well then there's that because um yeah Memorial Park is designed to be Memorial not an event space so it's oriented towards the street for visibility for passer by it's designed that way MH but that's why we all always end up like with our backs to the street feeling like maybe our kids are going to go between whatever but um but we could bring in um Bill Perkins because he was the landcape architect on the park it's certainly for the 911 memorial and talk to him about it's a public space how how can that public space be uh you know what how how can the design of that public space given its current configuration because of course it's sacred and important and how can we how is there room to to use that space a little bit more effectively to keep for advents and small scale um Traditions um and see what he has to say landscape architect he's a designer and off the top of my head that's that's what I'm suggesting I can do since I've brought it up I think it would be a great iide did before we finalized the trade just to kind of make investigate yeah knowing it's going to be a big tree one day yeah it will be a big people to be like I don't know why the shate TR ad Mission this Tre 30 years years what were they thinking one was coming out there right to make them for this that IUS right yeah yeah um you let me know if you want me to initiate that for the sake of the decision about the tree I do we vote on that or did we just say you guys are one body generally you I think we could have a further discussion when you know at the next meeting you know hopefully Mike will be here I don't know where he's at specifically with the project I don't know if he's any Leaps and Bounds orever didn't tell you anything I I did not speak to him prior of the meeting so the only information I got was this s um but I think we can is worth another meeting I mean we've waited this long I guess at this point but I I do I do fear at the uh the speed of government we will be here on December 6 or 7th next year and still no Christmas tree um so yeah would be a concern I would I would definitely want to put a um uh some kind of date on this if if we don't come to a resolution by uh you know our February meeting that we STI plan plant the spring on the oh I don't know I didn't know that we had a plan didn't know that the Christmas tree yeah I thought it was well we don't I mean well we were trying to do a spring planting because we're discussing it with the F providing a tree yeah that in May right yeah so I didn't know that so I don't know how I missed it sorry but I want to scle in plans just Just one thought on the planning and discussion for uh 2024 it maybe it would be helpful to have either a calendar or a list of events that we want to hit in 2024 to start to kind of warp around and so you know you mentioned we want to have you know a tree lighting and that means we need to go back five months in order to get the whatever we need that so maybe it would be a good I don't want to create more work but maybe it would be a good kind of organizing tool to have a calendar that we could look at not it doesn't have to be elaborate but just these are the these are the things we want to do in 2024 or these are the key dates this is this is Arbor Day whatever's on and it'll be a prompt as we discuss things to kind of back into some deadlines sure so um I don't it's a great idea I try to encourage the environmental commission to do the same thing because it's so easy to it's just so easy if one person's out of meeting you don't you know you lose that times like yeah Mak sense um you have love live day you have Arbor Day then you do your residential planting program probably want that on there even though it's not a lift technically but it's a social media push and it probably wouldn't be hard to get your calendar together yeah I I'd be happy to compile that if like if folks can send me any particular dates that are critical for them and then we can work around it like you have when you order trees all right that moves us to unless somebody has something to add to 2024 um I only had one question sure not a complicated question um my question was um have you been now that the grant was awarded h it is there a way to volunteer hours you're getting Tru like all your hours here tracking I'm doing it also if you're ever working on it let me know I have Excel spreadsheet where I track the volunteers and in the B staff time okay what qualifies as a me anything right now like like on the computer researching that you know the rers I mean all that work he was doing on the canopy that yeah sure absolutely like you going to this you I'm just saying what was that six seven hours wor the work I think what was the date of this of this at least um that might have to forward you an email to say to at the conference she attended the conference great please email me say I did this on this date for this much time and I I calculate all the stuff just tell me yeah yeah and explicitly what you were working yeah want to send her an email CHR an email please time sheet great that brings us to the council and tree preservation ordinance upate um I have um a that the ordinance be introduced first half of the year half come on half year TR to my calul so I I don't have control of the agenda um the mayor knows how important this is and each of you know him well enough you can let him know you're just that you're very in favor of it um obviously is a lot of things on thisly um is there something specific that it's not been introduced because my understanding and might be off but it's got to be introduced but it's also got to go through multiple meetings correct it's got to be introduced um well IDE this one is going to need to get workshopped because it's a it's a lengthy well any it it should be workshopped I'll say that um again it's not I can say that but other people make that decision but I think that that's probably the first stepis so it gets workshopped um once it comes out of Workshop assuming there isn't any major changes and I don't see why there would be but that could happen um it gets introduced that's another meeting and from there um pretty sure this land use ordinance so it goes to the planning board it takes a turn around the planning board and they're just their function is to confirm that this uh is in is is keep in keeping with the goals of the master plan that's that reason for that stop at m at the planning board and then it comes back to council for adoption once we get a report back from um the planning board so it's definitely four meetings well it's three Council meetings have one planning Bo meeting assuming there are no major changes along the way I mean it's two years in the making although I did there is a thing that came up that I think you guys would want to have in there um and even Bill brought it up I can't remember when but when the new trees are planted through the permitting process if they get permission to remove a tree or even an appeal they commit to planting trees the new trees that go in will will not be protected techically because they're they're under the minimum size any tree I think under six in in breath height diameter of breath height are not considered trees by definition and therefore are not protected under the ordinance so we need language that those trees are technically protected legally protected but also that um then we need a way to identify them so right away I'm thinking tree inventory because how how that even on public land but how are we going to so there's going to be we have to have a way of tracking them I I don't have an answer to this yet um there are a lot of complexities to this ordance the least of you know there's we need a tree conservation officer this is that's a Personnel issue we need a we need someone to administer the ordinance and to process the permit applications to determine if it's approved denied and then it's denied the applicant can come to the shade tree Commission um that's when you can negotiate for yeah a fee in Li of or that they'll that they you could grant them permission to remove a protected tree provided that they have some sort of offset new plantings or fees to the trust all right so but as of right now the ordinance is it there stuff being added to it then ready to go it's ready to go bit I picked up about the the new plantings um is the only thing that at least I've been and I'm I'm tracking it more carefully than you know it's just really on my radar okay kind of um so there are slight changes still being made fine tuning or over these past few months no there haven't been no changes okay um so just it's just just a little so this this what um Christy sent us this um pushing this model tree ordinance because of the storm water um requirements yeah this not put any well technically we're in compliance we are we have a tree ordinance even though I know everyone in this room thinks it's not so great and I agree with you um it's technically meets the state's requirements it's it will get better but technically we're in compliance I mean did we this model three or was did we compare this to what we I did read it it's it's now a year and a half ago for me at the time I'm sure the attorney right at the time Greg Canon was the attorney who worked most closely on this now he's um he's not with Fair Haven anymore I just wondered if in the new ordinance because I think this is a really important part of why trees are so important we were all now focused on storm water I just can't remember if there is specific language about the importance of trees and controlling storm water run up and and making sure that's I think it's in the recital but if um do you guys want to do you remember have you would you like to see the ordinance again do I I have trouble reading it all the lines through the whole thing like is there one I don't know why it's just it's so hard is there one that's the new version that just printed the way it got the law because you have to know what you're change in so you just skip the section the line through it you just skip it it's easier don't read that I I just kind of wanted to like just be able to read through it and say does this make sense I don't know but any I'll go back and I have it yeah it I just was wondering if that made a push well I would look at if I because I understand why that's important um I and I would say read the you'd only need to read the first two pages to to see if it's in the recites that's the first that's the legislative intent so that language is to the purpose of the love would be in the first couple Pages you would have to read the whole thing or the strikeouts or any of that stuff so ask chrisy to send it to you if you don't have it handy and you can look for it and if the language isn't satisfact you you bring it here and then let the shade Tre commission direct me and I'll and I'll see about getting it changed thank you Tracy new agenda items next meeting yeah just just like to discuss our tree planting plans okay maybe nin yeah no I won no out no no ninj no sneaking around um but just whether we want to do um a spraying and a fall planting and um how we want to do it um on thir Tre Trail us see money we ordered be root plants but not like the little Tey baby ones um they're maybe two or three feet and I've been reading a lot about these be root plants that they don't have the roots are you know they aren't bound like they are in those big containers and I do think at the end of the day and I I think I told you at the last meeting that this um fell in freeold Bill Brash who was the guy who did our last Community Forest plan and I was thinking about calling him and just seeing what if he was still doing it if he charge or I don't know I don't know if that's for me to do or for you to do or um but they catch up I mean you're not you just have to be willing to say I don't have to have instant gratification which I know in this day and age is hard but it's like eventually this tree if you watch it and you take care of it it'll probably catch up to the big tree that you planted and maybe at the end be healthier because its roots aren't so I don't know I would love to they're inexpensive they're like3 or $40 so we could and we I know we could plant them they're really easy to plant we planted 25 last Sunday in that rain um they're really easy to plant because you're not digging a big roou all um and we can put them places and try to catch up you want on the next meeting or you want talk about no I trying to explain sorry I get enthusiastic sorry I'm um all right yeah definitely be on the next agenda anybody else anything calendar items perhaps sure yeah let's do it all right public participation anybody out there I see any there look at if you have a question please raise your hand no no all right I make a motion to adjourn this meeting multiple seconds all right everyone a fine year of work from the see you all next year