there we go but I'm not doing this part you're doing this POS well we do do we do the salute first we make the statement we make the statement make the statement first okay let me make the statement here this is a special meeting of the fa Haven zon Board of adjustment adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the over public meetings act notice of the schedule and the agenda to the extent known presentent to the Asbury Park Press and the two River Times that notice was also posted on bulletin board in burough Hall and is remained continuously posted at least in advance of 48 Hours of this meeting the copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the B clerk copy of the notice has also been sent to such members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is direct to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting thank you before proceeding with the formal meeting I'd like to say a few words to the applicants or experts in the audience about the role and authority of the pran Zoning Board of adjustment this board is separate and independent Municipal legal entity and its limited Authority is specifically set forth in B ordinances and the New Jersey municipal and use law it's POS judicial nature and the members of the board unpaid volunteers appointed by the mayor and Council the zoning board does not enact the B land's laws and regulations B Council does that the zoning board does not enforce luse laws of the B VAR and the responsibility of the B thir 14 officer this board deals with FS for relief from the requirements of the bur sl's laws or denials by the zoning officer an applicant is never entitled to a variant it's also known as an exception to the examing regulations but must meet specific criteria required by the New Jersey municipal lands law and the pren ordinances by satisfying certain reir standards of proof the board has no authority to wave these requirements the burden of proof is always upon the applicant to show that here she is entitled specifically to the cluster the applicant must prove that a deviation from the regulations will advance the purposes of the ordinance and that the deviation would substantially outweigh any detriment of the Zone PLS variances related to the future use of the land and not intended or authorized to Remy temporary any personal situations roll call free sure here here here who Jo alance United States okay Mr Ryan myself thank you first p on the agenda is the Mad 550 River Road um Doug you're gonna kind of lay out where we are on this let me let me swear Witnesses or exhibits and then give a procedure statement anybody is going to testify I think you're going to testify say something ask me to scan my planner engineer please for the testimony before the board the truth all truth talking about the truth I by usual Council before you start testifying please state your name spell your name for the record so that we have an identification or with regard to our device there in case we have need with regard to exhibits I have um just our prior exhibits A1 to a20 uh exhibit zb1 to zb6 and we had one objector exhibit rski so March as a a sski one new exhibits from what I see are going to be marked a21 that's the we have the prior resolution of approval marked as a21s that was a resolution entitled granting approval with varant Rel lead to property located at 550 low 10 there Haven um you note that I think that the resolution that we received is missing a couple of pages that that thought of I think we two I think we can take care of a22 uh these are the revised architecturals uh for Pages revised as of May 6 by Anderson Campanella a23 these are the revised engineerings eight sheets by Insight revised to May 3 uh a24 is an email from the applicants Council to me with copies of resolutions permits previously granted Andor denied to the site and or withdrawn I'm not going to burden record by zones it's fail sub uh basically it's a response that we charge the applic council to provide us all that you may have that a25 is the applicant Engineers writing uh over see J in picture May 6 2024 basically providing status of different they have done with regard to responses to bequest zb7 is CCH planning review from Michael Sullivan Donald Miller Tristan Harrison May 3 2024 uh zb8 in CME engineering review number four of the signature lizo yes as of April 18th 2024 there through all the addition of I have at this point in time you have anything else to Mark we have a couple of Mark from Mr Anderson just one it is would it be a26 or a26 at this point in time okay it is U labeled zn1 one0 and it is a um floor plan with the depiction of uh building down lights to be uh removed and all new lights so it's extracted from the other floor planes in in relation to the letters that we have here floor floor plan lighting yeah okay and what is the DAT I believe it's today tday yes um let me do one other thing I'm G try to get out of the way of this uh just by way of setting course on the record this is not a new application this is a continuation of an application we recall that in the past even though we've done a remoralization this this hearing for this started back ons December 7th 2023 it's continued with consent to February 1st uh 2024 at the February 1st Council requested uh permission to bate that was granted by the board we prepared a resolu tion based upon that fire fication and that memorialization CED on April 11 2024 substantially you often two halves to to an application in this instance the first half that you resolve is the D variance the non-conforming use if you will commend the applicant for requesting to BU vcation because if you weren't ever going to allow the views to be there why burden the entire evening cycl detents and so the use is now we can say yes it's it's permitted now we're getting into the cyclan aspects of it okay this is the second hand it's the cyclan it's the stuff that while you have some experience with that this is usually a planning board issue where you get into the the details you literally get into the reads of the of the burms buffers setbacks lighting planting uh so we're going to be relying heavily this evening although we have both our houses here probably be Ling heavy and going through the reports of uh CCH that's the cb7 doc um but again I want to make it clear that our burden here I think you're probably going to hear hearing things you're not going to be hearing about D variances you're going to hear a reference to a non-conform use engagement but what you're really going to be hearing is either C1 or C2 Relief by way of the bulk requirements that they need again you probably hear some testimony about Ling upon hardship because there's a pre-existing structure there regularly shot shaped lot so state but you're going to be hearing more about planning and site plan than you you would normally hear as your board but since the D variance as they say carries the day here that D variance brings the entire application before you um any questions about where you're going this evening I have a question sure so Mr a please feel free to jump in when we were here last time um my mindset is focusing on the idea that we have an existing structure we have an existing approval back from the late 60s and we address the issue of effectively of a change in use in relation to that existing structure that was previously approved the materials in front of us are detailed and there's a lot of questions with regard to traditional site plan review what I'd like to understand to the extent that it's as simple as as getting it clear up front is whether or not we're building off the existing approval in so far as we're going to be in compliance with that existing approval and we're looking perhaps to make modifications that will be reviewing where are we looking effectively to start over again where we're not going to be bound by that resolution and we're going to be evaluating it you know I I guess somewhat from scratch I think we're building on the 68 resolution so what we're trying to do is to improve the conditions that exist or that have been modified to a degree de facto not de jury in the last 56 years I think someone calculated the last here in February and so you'll the testimony you'll hear predominantly from Mr fiter as a planner and engineer relates to those site details that typically as you as you said or as Council said the planning board hears but tonight you'll be sitting in that function with regard to the site plan details and the typical bulk variances that you're accustomed to in your in your role as the as the zoning board um members the C1 and C2 criteria so sorry so so what we're trying to do is reconcile what's happened in these 56 years since the 1968 approving improve it to a degree package it and have you approve it rather than just say well we'll just live with what happened in 1968 as the site exists now that's really not what we'd like to do okay so B based upon all the plans that you've heard that's where we'd like to go to improve on the 68 resolution so to the examp and I'm so sorry and there have been a couple of intervening right there was the 95 resolution and I think a zoning interpretation with regard to the sign so so but but principally the site plan if you will was approved in ' 68 okay pardon me thank you so to the extent we're talking about landscaping or lighting we're talking about it today that's going a trump whatever is in the 68 resolution correct but to the extent that someone's concerned about drainage or the parking lot that's really addressed in' 68 and so to the extent we don't talk about a change to that tonight the understanding would be that we'd stay in compliance with what it said in ' 68 correct that's very helpful to me thank you right uh I think you're done right there I'm done except just only say one thing well all saying except with regard to the standards I think your planner has laid them out fairly straightforward succinctly in section nine where it talks about the consideration variances and exceptions I won't fur the record that Pages 14 of 17 and 15 of 17 outline those balances that you take in regard to the variance to C1 and C2 you may still have one ke variant is there still a height of the accessory by still well I don't I don't think there would be a d for any for Access for any accessory right so so to my knowledge no D variances whatsoever okay yeah thank you and I would also add again I emphasize this what we're trying to so for example right the sign that was approved we we establish the sign the monument sign 12 feet high was approved but we're trying to improve on that by dropping the mass and dropping the signs from 12 feet to roughly 7 feet and having only 20 feet of square footage for that sign compared to what was previously approved so we'd like for that to be something that you approved rather than everybody stuck with a sign that really nobody including the applicant wants but yet that's what was approved that's what we have okay that's that's one example of what why we're trying to get this site plan approved this evening okay terrific so with that um applican calls James Anderson um he previously was acknowledged as an expert a chairman with regard to his testimony as a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey absolutely terrific still cor great um good evening Mr Anderson I'm wondering if you can tell the board with regard to what's been identified as a26 what um we've got going on there in the second floor uh I I I certainly well a26 is the first floor I'll find my way back to that that's primarily uh relating to the lighting questions that came back with the QV letters we got so um if I I'll just start uh with the second floor which is actually on uh another the second floor plan um there was comments here at the last meeting I wanted to address two of them and then two the two review letters regarding the our last meeting uh one of the comments was um there was discussion about what was going on on the second floor how many tenants and so forth and at the end of it uh uh the the idea was that it was going to be restricted do a single tenant and that there would be no partitions or ability to cut up that space those notes were will put on to um z102 that was recently resubmitted and it's bubbled and and pointed out um something that we didn't talk about uh but since the leave the applicant um themselves are going to use this as opposed to renting it out which was an earlier thought I believe read than building the new bathroom which would have pushed into the mechanical space they're they're going to leave the existing bathroom on the southern on Flor so um that was one of the comments from the last meeting that that is about the Restriction of no no additional law of partitions and then there was another thought that was brought up during the meeting and that was um related to the vesu on the front and the fact that it was going to be uh like a receptionist there and those sorts of things and not looking in and seeing beat wires you know that kind of stuff so um we put notes on um 2011 up here that that uh requires screening to be in that lower panel to obscure that that being said we're still trying to figure out what is the best way to do it we thought we would do it later in the construction and either use film over that paint or possibly even fabric I we wanted to obscure it but we also want it to look nice and I think that being able to actually install it there and take a look at it in the real uh so if we could uh leave us that Latitude that it needs to be uh screened but see what would look the best in those uh lowo panels uh here across the the front of the building referring now to which exhibit zm2 one thank you I think that is part of a22 part a22 yes thank you um and in terms of the compliance letters there was two different ones from CME Associates and one from Clark Pon in uh one in April and um uh the other beginning of May um in the prior one there we had shown that either of the build uh differently than the engineers we taken off the architectural drawings that were done in ' 68 and they measured it so we changed our uh measurements to coincide with theirs I guess it went from um we had 23.5 ft and then we down to [Music] the engineers figures we do at [Music] [Music] ZN 2011 and that would uh and would also make it consistent with the um site plans as well and there's a a new door sign an entry sign and that's shown on the engineering drawings uh as well as that would be mounted right on the glass itself could you show that to the board the location of the glass mounted sign as well as be on the side of the W on the EAS side of and then and then there's the specifics of that will Beed and then additionally uh there is a bracket sign off the building on the rear of the building that would um uh for the Ten of shars and that's the one that's proposed to be 2 and 1/2 ft by 2 feet that's where the other one is four feet squared yeah and both of those are also shown in detail on the engineering Dawn but I think they wanted the consistency between the Aral drawings and the um engineering drawings so now your PL show and Mr Fitcher show they do ter thank you and uh the other points really um have to do with the new exhibit that we put in today ZN one one Z that's a26 a26 right and uh that was asking Rec or really denote all the pictures building M the pictures that were going to be removed and those that would be either replaced or new pictures and um there's a a number of s lights along the front of the building that are going to be removed and not be placed there will be a new uh light at the front door as required by to as well as the back door and and in the um area over there um underneath the Western drivethru um the is that is that former teller area light required by code because it's an egress door the door yes okay the um and then both to drive through these existing surface mounted lights that there was discussion about having those be recessed to minime the the glare going out from that so those have been noted as the existing lights to be removed and be with um ret pictures um there is there's sopes on just a second this is the document that was produced today that's correct so I'm assuming that none of that was provided to the the board's riew the corre okay that's why you may not be finding it but is Mr I have one question on ZM 101 in my book I'm not sure Sam you have new projecting signed um that the Sal is that a lit sign going to be facing because that is a residential area uh it's sh behind this [Music] one shown in profile on the bottle drawing number three on ZM 2011 you can see it that it's bubbled in kind of bracketed so you can see but it's not um with and also lights oh I see being taken off the front of the building are also being taken off the back uh there is a light above the um the garbage area and lastly um there is a light which was mentioned I believe last on the easterly side of the Eastern drive through that would be I believe at a level of 16 ft off and those the photo metrics of those will be um uh discussed with Mr biter and shown on his plans but I think in the letters uh they wanted to see on both uh the architectural as well as engineering to so that there was no um confusion of where those might be with regard to the sign in the back there's an existing building mounted sign I think it was for the teller window is that coming off that is thank you and so it's going to be just past the door um as to you won't hit your head on it basically because it it's going to go well Jason comes by so and that that was it so we I wasn't going to mention any of the Adaptive reuse all the things that we brought up at the last meeting and this is really just addressing a couple of things that were brought up here that we wanted to include we mandated through and also U address those points that were in the two uie I know the board had some questions about how you were going to treat the exterior and we' had some discussion did you say that you were going to whitewash the the Brick or am I making that referring to the elevation now Mr Anderson and I don't what number this was for the prior meeting but this is the same exib okay oh 88 thank you I almost um so yeah thanks for bringing that up the the thought would be that slate group would stay get cleaned and repaired as needed the brick would be whitewashed but not get be white they wanted to see some of the tone of the brick comings were um there the uh Windows now which are a mix of of white windows that are the original ones of the building and then what's commonly referred to derotic bronze for the the teller area and the front vestibule all those are intended to be painted a uniform gray to kind of have them all work together and otherwise um you know some of the other things they we we talked about was that the coupa would be repaired um you know that the the P would be taken off of the windows would if if they were good enough shape they would just Beed in there and if they were in bad shape then they would be replaced in i a question is the the bushes the shrubs that are in the front is that not enough to screen wires and feet without having to put something up there yeah iner uh are rendering was done really before the planting plan was done it was uh sort of based on what was there I think Mr pitcher's gonna U be able to speak to that but you know so we might do both I the planting plus whatever's done on the windows so the planting is still going to go there just maybe an extra back stop with a film or whatever yeah okay so on the top of the Koopa is where is a is it a Weather Vein and did we talk about it last time it's an ospray it's an ospre is the ospre there now no okay and so is there a proposal to put an osprey on top of the KOA now there is okay and so I guess they'll just have to be some discussion as whether or not there's a height issue there whe yeah there is there's um and it shows up in the old uh a21 it's a 30inch tall so how how high does it go what's the final height once you get to the top of that so the the coup quite tall 10 10 in and which would be an additional which you talk about so we've got the 22 and change plus the 10 plus the 30 in yes that that sounds right okay so you're getting up to about 35 ft at the top of the 13 plus 22 and a half a little bit more yeah so the height is measured to the the bridge line on the roof and then there's a second ordinance section that talks about kuas and it gives it a a permitted height so they're permitted um an extra six feet high and this one is 10 10 they can go six feet over the ridge as it permitted um yeah extension and anything beyond that requires VAR 10 plus 30 right yeah it's 10.6 existing plus the OS so it's 13.1 was the 10.6 granted in the 68 p i but it is exist I don't know if it was ever called out CH need 68 approval but to my knowledge um that Koop has been there for decades but and KOA standard may not have existed in 16 I'm just trying to think what what was granted and what extra so this is exacerbating the height of for sure but I I think uh the intent there was to um you know do something that that didn't make it look as much like a bank to be and and have some character and some relevance for the is the only exacerbating feature The Weather Vein or the only new the only new feature done the KOA is there it doesn't it's it's about 4 and a half ft taller than the six feet that's allowed so that's there we're not changing that just rehabilitating it but not adding to its structure plus the 30 in of the OS weather B so it's like 7 feet above whatever the plus or minus above whatever the six feet s so it would be essentially slightly more than 7 feet above the maximum 6 feet yeah that's that's the math correct okay is Mr fixer gonna speak about the black hole he is okay I had no further questions chairman board members of Mr Anderson so with regard to the rear and the lights that you've described Mr Anderson these are all downfacing lights they're they're in the sofits they're placements of what's there and you're actually going to be putting in less than than what's there now there's a light at the door at the two doors one at the teller window in the in the West Northwest side and then one at the rear door what kind of fixtures are those are they down facing they be down facing they actually they not can specify as if gener going to be down B is it fair to assume they'll be akin to residential fixture that's that's good way of describing it that's really the character they're trying to bring okay and the same on the the old drivethru that's now at the handicap spot on east corner that's going to be there's going to be layer under that too um there you there's going to be a recess light in the Drive-Thru itself again I think the the intent there was to try to keep the light from going sideways and trying to keep it going straight down but there is one and I have asked Mr P to describe it there was one going up on the Gable here 16 ft off the grade it's intended to to downward facing uh and illuminate the the par well know the call temperature as well when when we discuss it I don't know if that's going to be this picture the color temperature making sure they're all uniform and oh that makes a big difference hug I got massive okay we done well done any questions Mr Anderson I'll St thanks thank you Mr Anderson okay app now call Jason fer licensed professional engineer and professional planer and I believe chairman also qualified fct last licenses that you're here left I hope not no good it's going to be my followup question thank okay um Mr Fisher you had the opportunity to hear the testimony of Mr Anderson you reviewed his plans your firm at your direction provid and provis plans you had the opportunity to review the board planers letter you had the opportunity to review the board Engineers letter what can you tell us about some of the details and leading us into the variances to be identified before I start I updated the rendering we can mark it and hand it out if you want but honestly you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the last one if you still have it so I I leave that up to you I'll take the note okay 8.7 where's Walo got Circle the differences prepared when uh let's see we have here May 16 yeah thank you all right so can we describe the uh exhibit briefly it's uh yeah so it's the site plan that was submitted overlaid onto an aerial and we col a render to site it is boy 99 something per similar to the uh site exhibit that we submitted last night so after the second hearing that we had in February we heard your comments uh we saw the comments in your professionals review letters heard some comments from the public and we revised the plans and we resubmitted them to you at that hearing in February uh also at the hearing in December I provided detailed testimony about engineering that was December and I provided detailed planing testimony that was February and all of that testimony stands and continues to support our application based on the revised plans that are in front of you tonight because again the changes are very very minor so I'll briefly describe the changes that we made following the last hearing there were two conditions in particular from the 1968 resolution that came up a few times so I'll address those the first is there was a condition that the curb radius that the intersection of r Road and Smith Street be 15 ft and it happens to be 15 ft so that was a successful condition in 68 and we put that on our plants there was also a requirement that a fence be maintained along the southern property line and then the rear portion of the western property line that fence exists today and our plans call out and we testified last time we're going to replace the fence essentially in time um to maintain that condition I believe the resolution required is six with fence and I thought the existing fence was five if you're going to replace it in con you're replacing with five or you six uh Our intention was to go to six but honestly if you have a preference either what I would firstly that's we thought yeah I would as well yeah so and that's what our plan show is six that's referenced in your writing of 4J I'm sorry that's referenced to your writing response M Jaz uh I believe it was yeah it said six feet yep six feet and that's on our PL M fer um this condition also talks about the fence going to the South Western corner and then bending on the western property line yes we will maintain that as well yeah that exact exactly that actually exists it's just hidden by vegetation and structures but it's there we'll make sure it continues to exist um as was mentioned before there's an existing sign on the rear of the building for the previous drive-thru and that is called out on our plans to be removed I think Donna had a picture of it in her review letter so that'll come out uh there was a comment about making sure the Ada parking space and the accessible route comply with Ada regulations so we have notes on the plant to make sure that that complies um we checked our topography on that by the way and it looks like it complies it's very close so that'll be a dooring construction to be confirmed if there's anything that's off it'll fixed uh we also added a turning plan to show a vehicle exiting that last parallel parking space so that would be the southern most or Western most however you however you look at it um we show that on there and that's that's a relatively easy maneuver for a vehicle that's shown on the planks we're also showing a new smaller freestanding sign it's essentially in the same location as the existing one it's just a little bit closer to the building building I'm talking by inches maybe a foot and that's just in order to stay outside of the site triangles and that new sign again is smaller than what existed previously the window sign uh and the projecting Sign Pro projective sign were updated on our plans to include the areas um I spoke to Mr Rizzo and and he clarified what uh put that square footage not only on the plan but on the detail we're happy to do that we added addition no plants in front of the building that's what we talking about before about the the glass by the reception area so we now have um plants on the plan and I'm just noticing they are not on that updated exhibit that was a m but they are on the plants that were submitted so they are present on um what was identified as a23 that's the latest s plan yes they are thank yeah um we also added more plants to supplement the the rear offer that's the southwest corner of the property um the original application had nothing the next revision of the plan showed three Evergreens back there this revision of the plan now shows four we also added most deadlines to the pl um this one this next one might benefit from an exhibit if you guys would like to see a an exhibit of lighting plant or I can talk that you want see the exhibit yes okay so 28 not much to say but a picture's worth th000 what's the data you uh yesterday 51524 thank you so this what's being handed out I'm sorry is a 28 um a28 uh all that is is the lighting plan from the plan that was uh from the site plan I submitted to you with one change couple of notes for clarification but in terms of the lighting plan itself there's one change and that change came from conversations I had with Jordan and Donna um in the days leading up to this hearing U the the main topic of this discussion is the parking space that's right adjacent to the refu area behind the building and the parallel parking space that's just behind that um there's one school of thought that says on the plan prior to this exhibit that there was little to no light in those parking spaces and it would benefit from some light so we added a light to the back of the building right above the refu area that provides light for those parking spaces very significantly the one of the cruxes of this uh analysis is to make sure that there's no light fill into the neighbor's property by putting that light there number one that light is mounted on the building at 8 feet high it's very low so that helped we also have that six foot fence in the back that was modeled on this exhibit so what you'll notice is 0.0 everything south of the fence so there's no spillage onto the neighboring properties we also initially proposed one type of wall mounted light where the light source had more visibility uh Donna sent a suggestion of a Different Light where the light source is recessed more into the fixture so we swapped it out the analysis and that's what's on this exhibit here so the the source of the light should have little to no visibility and there's no spillage onto the neighboring properties other than that this lighting plan matches what was submitted prior uh we did clarify a couple of things we're referring to the architectural plans for the recess lighting that goes into the two drive-throughs uh we pointed out the fact that there are uh Lights by each of the doors uh so that' be the door in the rear by the projecting sign the main door in the front going in and the other door by the old western drive through those as we said before just residential style downward facing lights uh and we also show we showed them before but I think it's better clarified here uh we have ground mounted lights lighting the proposed freestanding sign and the existing flag Bol and I think that's that's it for updates on the lighting plan so I think it's correct me if I'm wrong but I think at the last hearing I think we came around on the lighting plan and we're happy with it we now have this question of the light in the back the app position on it is we're happy to put that light up or not so that's up to you guys can can we just kind of walk the site as to where you're installing it may be may be best to kind of walk the building where I I think we can I think we can move beyond the the residential type fixtures around the doors and the recess lights that are under the sockets we've got the rear light and we can talk about that but just can we talk about other lights that are commercial lights that are projecting and what you may be putting on poles or proposing to put on you're shaking your head now there's none there there are n we've been pairing them away as we've done we're down to two building mounted lights so so we've got the one in the back and where's the other building mounted light it's on the Eastern drive-thru facing Northeast okay so that one's going to be pointed 45 degrees to River Road yeah the the main objective there is to light the driveway and the walkway from the um eight nine parking spaces to the building okay and so then all the lighting data is based on the the lights that exist because there's street lights and some other things in this location that was one of the revisions to the lighning plan prior where we added in the existing lights in the street so this exhibit reflects that light okay so the one in the back is because they don't really get the benefit of those street lights that are already there so so there's not a lot of light there as it sits today on our prior analysis that parking space right next to the The Refuge cans shows lighting readings of zero and I would assume that moving a light underneath the drive and going from the uh perimeter of the property back to the building would be a fairly significant undertaking versus installing one on the building very much so and that also puts the light source closer to the property lines and right up against the fence so you won't have the fence shielding it and you might have spillage would it be higher also it would be higher than 8 ft for sure okay and the one that is um by the handicap parking stall facing that direction that's just generally to supplement as you get closer to the building where those trip hazards and things like that or does that relate to that pretty much yeah okay so any of the ones that were near the parking at the corner those have been removed in original plan the light poles they're all gone okay yep good so the uplighting with regard to um the flag pole I know that um one of the residents was concerned based on the experience with the existing lights can you help us understand how they're going to be configured what it's going to feel like and what the purpose is yeah well um one of the most important things I'm going just double check one thing on my plans if you don't mind there's been so many iterations on losing frat one set all right we don't have it on there we have a spec for the light um for the uh flag pole light flag pole and the sign these are intended for this purpose to prevent glare and and have uplight they're they're round and they have a shield on them up and the light does not spread it's it's a directed light um we will add them to the to the plans if you see fit to approve we can put them on for resolution compliance have you have I said actually I have them miss hand out so I don't know if it helps to see a tou she you but these are intended for um this kind of lighting to prevent any glare spillage or anything and they they're pointed up why don't you distribute one of the you have a shielded Spotlight right um I don't know if I call they call it accent lighting I don't know that it's a spotlight but sound s sh even better we're up to 829 829 the shielded accent so the light for the flag and the sign yes so the proposal is two on either side of the sign yes one on either side of the sign so let me tell let me uh correct so let me say one thing about um flag L um you have two opt by the way this is an American flag this is not an advertising flag and and that goes into the accessory structure thing I don't see the flag poll in ex structure if you do that's fine we can talk about it but this is just the American flag it's the existing poll we want to have the American flag not not ad um with flags you got the US flag and you have two options the flag goes up or down with the Sun or you light it when it's dark out so um putting it up and down with the Sun every day can be very challenging sometimes you're not there whatever the case may be so 99 times out of 100 people let put lights on the flags and keep it up when you light a flag the rule of thumb is put three lights on two lights also works one light doesn't work because one light is only going to light one side side when the flag blows around there's a lot of dark spots it just doesn't work so that's the intention of having two lights on the flag to make sure it's properly lit during the Dark Hours um we would put three but I think it gets kind of tight and the direction of the light might be in questioning so these lights are parallel to River Road they're not pointed the River Road they're not pointed into the building they're up at the flag parallel to the the sign obviously has two sides so one one light for each side so that's the logic on now looking at the cut sheets I see Mr picture that the dimension the the diameter of this light is slightly less than three in yes these are very small and it has that uh Shield the cone shield on top of it and that's what helps direct it and it's actually adjustable as you twist them you can spread the beam you can narrow the beam and focus it right on the flag and right on the side and this is a surface mounted ground mounted fixture to ground mounted fixture they're very strong six and an 8 in yeah so the sign itself is um a wood sign that is not back lit it's only lit from the ground that's correct um and I assume that if the board offit to approve the application some language confirming if the lights are going to stay kind of as they're intended I what what I find in my experience is they're set up right originally and then landscapers knocked them and would have you and they're at of line and at some point somebody calls and is in Happ Happ I would assume the applicant and all the way back to the resolution can just reset things if needed we have no no is that chair that's an easy maintenance item and the other benefit we have is an owner operator so be a lot of care Mr P on your lighting plan it says no lighting light lights will be turned up 1 hour after close business does that include the signage light as well or just the uh that was intended to be the um the light above the Western Drive through and the one in the back obviously the flag lights will stay on that's their whole purpose um I think the intention was to keep the uh sign the sign lit if that's okay I'm just trying to figure out which which lights are different a and business light so can we look at the spec on the sign um there are no variances required for the sign right well the sign's not permitted in the zone so you have a typical chairman a typical sign in the commercial Zone that's permitted is 25 Square ft we're at 20 square ft okay what was permitted in 1995 at least was a 12 foot high sign we're down to less than seven so so let's assume for a second Jordan that we're in a commercial Zone um the they be permitted 24 square feet total 25 25 and we're at 20 okay and the height requirement for maximum minimum what would that be uh looks like 12 12 that's correct so where the old one was approved that's correct the 12T is is the max so the new ones proposed have a maximum height of 7 feet 6' 8 in yeah okay so slightly less than than that are you still going with it on the site it says 10 two I thought that was remember the last meeting we talked about not having tenant two on the site on the sign because we're only going with the single tenant occupancy that's correct uh referring to the projecting no the freestanding s says mik below say number two correct but if we're limiting I think in our last meeting we only approved one a single tenant no we it was um there was a tenant that was pulled out and then during the discussion of the hearing uh the gim we'll call it the training whatever was going to take over the whole building and then later in the discussion the applicant Mr Anderson said he will put his office upstairs in a small space so that's tenant number two until until such time as the gym takes over takes over correct and if that doesn't happen I believe the resolu says that's extinguished yeah it's only one tenant allowed it does say that so at such time as that were to occur then the tenant Tu would come off I'm sorry I understand what you're saying now so once the gym does expand then 10 and two that's when it gets extinguished right I understand correct that's my so then will the sign change you just pull that off how does that work not that certainly that could correspond to the single user if it if that happened that would make sense well should just be able to be you know removable or easily altered what happen yeah I think the sign should follow the use that's what I'm suggesting okay the sign should follow you I I just want to make sure that I understand with regard to where the sign fits relative to parameters size of lettering colors and those sorts of things and um the standard would be what's what's permitted in commercial now so the size of the lettering the the number of colors we have we have details on all those things right c700 on on one thing I just want to get clear real quick is the c i sign 7t so it's 7t propos to the post and then 6 so I think and so it's it's it's open at the bottom then you have sign and then you have slight hes that extend post that extend above the top of the sign what's the width of the sign sign is the sign itself is 4 feet and then the post four in 4 in post post okay and I didn't hear answers to the questions as to the size of the letters and the colors but it's proposed to conform to whatever the commercial standard is as the same yes do we know what the width of the existing sign is it's a different shape it's wider feels WI 2.67 feet by 8et 8et and we're going Mr are you saying you will comply with the letter I think the lettering whatever the ordinance says for the business Zone you that was the question I thought the answer was yes that it was going to getform did you comply or you comp well when we talk about letters actually what do you looking hold on one second yeah because he he's got kind of a logo effect that correct that's what I was going to say so the 550 up top the the tenant uh the phone number 10 2 tentatively that's lettering that would conform to your ordinance the the Mike Duffy's personal training that to me is a graphic okay that's not letter that's how I would to do it so like a logo yes it's on the it's what's shown on the plan the sign detail I'm wondering where the ordinance addresses it and whether it conforms or doesn't conform for being asked to Grant some sort of a deviation I don't believe there's a you have the height you have the area don't believe there is a lettering requir if I I think we looked at that last night I thought there was but so Jordan if you could take a look um and there's no issue with regard to visibility there's no issue with site lines when you're coming out of these entrances or exits no so we added the site triangles to the driveways on either side of it and the new sign like I said is shoved back a just to stay outside of the can you please just clarify me when the second floor use ends yes we're saying we're going to resign the the bottom por or you going to remove it well it would be removed I don't know if they would resign and use it or just color it a solid I don't know what they would do proposing to maintain the sign area or reduce no we would not reduce the sign want to maintain it make the sign applicable to the correct information pertaining second yes and I only have one other thing just to wrap up in terms of changes um there is the uh the tree on the west corner of the property by Norwest Corner um Western drive-thru exit there's an existing tree there that we called that to be removed and replaced with a Crate Myrtle um there was discussion about replacing it something different keeping with so on so on I I spoke to Don I spoke to the applicant the applicant says let's leave the tree as is which I think makes Donna happy so I think we're all happy right everybody good on the liage lighting and the sun yes so my biggest concern is Str um and I know that the original 68 resolution called out requirements with regard to pitch asphal and I think the focus was to make sure that this water gets to River Road yes I know that reming and repaving is a really big deal do you have any more data with regard to the current pitch of the of parking area so we have topography um we talked about this at the last hearing and since then I spoke to Jordan and the topography that we have shows that the water goes out to River Road that that's significant what's also significant and even more sure is that the water will not go south to the neighbors because there's a hurt so all the water that lands on the pavement the building and such that gets out to River Road there was a condition in the 68 resolution bu and I talk about that as well um we believe that and I don't want to speak The Bu but we believe that that uh condition was met and there's no changes here that warant anything per okay so what I would be concerned about would be pooling in the parking area and then water exiting to Smith Street um and it seems to me that there's got to be a way without repaving to trap that water so that it isn't going in that direction I'm not asking you to do anything but what I'm asking you is feasibility of like a speed bump or something which would capture that and make sure that it then pulls and directs to River um is that is that a really dumb idea does that make sense um if that in the future became a problem things settle too over time right yeah I mean in the future if that becomes a problem we could look at it um unfortunately my plan's too small we're talking about the eastern driveway entrance so what I can't see on here in Jordan you have full size maybe you can confirm it's one thing to prevent the water from the site to go out to Smith and then head south or east whatever that is which I think is what you really want to the other thing and this is where I want to check the too I can look here is if the water needs to come into the site to get out the river we want to allow it to we don't want to create a pond in Smith Street now the water would have to jump up which way it go I think that this is depression right there along that Cur l so so here's what here's what I was thinking um if in fact it turns out that there's some evidence that we have water coming from this parking area and going that direction um would the applicant be agreeable to addressing that problem at that time through some sort of mitigation effort at the um at the entrance to my mind it's the installation of something that would bar the water from going that way and I want to put a tool in the hand of B engineer in if in the event look Ju Just so it's clear in case anyone doesn't know immediately behind this is the worst drainage problem in Far um it's been that way for decades decades and decades and it was that way when this project was originally approved in 68 yeah um and so what I'm what I'm focusing on is not having that problem continue and making sure that this property doesn't contribute to it and so what I'm asking is if the board soft bit to approve the application and were to add into um the approval a condition that to the extent that there is evidence that water's moving in that direction that the applicant will be obligated to find a way to make sure it stopped moving in the direction of from the site to Smith and then toward colog correct you want to prevent that so once you get into Smith it drops and it it's going to go that way I believe that you are slightly elevated from the street I can't say I measured it um and I don't think there's any water coming from Smith across you back over the river no I agree I'm looking at it now it's not it doesn't do that and so what I'm asking is is there are there practical solutions to that problem that you could Implement at that time or am I talking about something that would be impossible I think that's fair I think that a trench dra could be installed that's the other thing I was thinking it would I mean so it would be a temporary solution um can ultim try to drin the ground if you pitch it towards to the north to the landscape so when there's water there Jordan there's a lot of water not a little bit of water we're talking um it's it's getting real bad yeah it it gets uh that gets tricky the the answer the general answer to your question is yes we can work something out love that answer as long as it's on the African's property right um because once we start getting into adding structures and sending The Water Somewhere what we don't want to do I presume is send the water toward Colonial which means we have to send it to River now we're into the county and the county probably going to tell us get your water out of here so that's why I'm saying if we can limit it to if necessary put a speed bump we'll call it on the Africans property in the driveway and let that solve the problem and leave it there then I I think that would be okay I'm good with that look if I thought you had a place to put drainage on site we'd be talking about it but you really you really don't I have a question about the roof leaders um I was looking at that just pictures of the property because I didn't see anything on the plan here about where leers are where they go see that one just sort of dumps out on your parking lot by the handicap parking space uh one farther west goes into the ground and then comes out of the curb in the driveway and then presum goes on to River Road there's at least three other leaders on the front of the building they go into the ground and I didn't see any obvious indication of where they went do you have an idea where they go I don't they might have connected to the other one that went out through the curb in the drive but no I don't so roof leaders don't know where they go right is there a good place or a bad place I don't know I'm I'm just asking if we know where they go now okay um you know I mean if if you the water will ultimately the way the site is greated the water will ultimately get the you know it goes down the roof leaders and gets out yeah unless it recharges it'll move out to yeah I'm not aware of any drywalls that doesn't mean they're there but they're not used to be a septic I think on the west side of the property septic yeah that was in the original um res I don't know if it was the resolution of the minutes but they talked about a septic on the west side so that's most likely I'm assuming they're connected to the Sewer oh yeah this is so so here's what I'm assuming here's what I'm assuming anything that drops off of that building is going eventually to wind up in the parking lot or it's going to um percolate into the The Limited grass areas it's going to go to River you know there's a problem at River too it's there's times there where I've seen pictures and it it's deep um it is what it is it can't solve everybody's problems one thing worth noting on on that by the way usually with development applications we've added things with this we have reduced the perf C so that's good MH yeah and for whatever it's worth the county did give you final approval so County well look I'm focusing on Mr sh's Question and if there were a better place to put it where if you got it over to one side or the other it wind up somewhere else but I I don't see where in the end moving it slightly is going to get it to a different end location no I I think what you have now works because all the water eventually gets out to River whereas if you start collecting it and discharging it may have a point charge that's the whole world rather not do so let's say we're 15 years from now and the parking lot needs to be redone let's say you were dropping this in here now would there be a way to do underground detention underneath the parking area we'd have to check the soils to answer that in theory yes but we'd have to check the soils to make sure the water can move through the soil and that groundwater is not too shallow yeah so so so the question's similar to the original question if that were happening 10 or 15 years off um you know because right now you you've got it and and I think In fairness it's it's there today you know we're we're talking about reusing it and I think that there's a lot of this that just makes sense that's how we've gotten this far um if in fact though you had to start over again and I I don't know what the life ccle is of parking area um but if at some point it were coming up anyway and there were an opportunity to bury some of this in order to make it better it would seem to me that that would be proven I suspect the applicant would want to do that as well but every once in a while we get pinned at the acne and people ask us what we've done um would it be unreasonable to suggest that if in the future maybe you can help me Doug I mean to the extent that this were being redone would it be reasonable prospectively to say at that time there would be an expectation that the drainage would be improved through the installation of something underr I would say if you do that temper the language more to there would be an expectation that it would be investigated because if if the geotechnical engineers go out there and say this isn't happening then then we'd be stuck yeah well I wouldn't want that what what can you do at this time to confirm I don't we Board of limited jurisdiction in a sense the duration and it's this applicant that's come before us um well but there are standards right so we've been talking about this around town in terms of what we're going to drop underground there's there standards with regard to um what soil what types of soil perk where your water table is overall and Jordan would tell you if we were trying to put a drywall in here that there would be an objective standard as to whether or not it would work right and so that standard May grow over time but it's going to be an on or off situation either it would or wouldn't work and if it would work technically the only the only ceiling on that maybe would be expense I'm not suggesting some I don't want to suggest something that would make this not viable economically um but in my experience some of this stuff is tubes and plastic and fabric and rock and it's not a big deal at least not for me that isn't until it's where it's going to go I think that's what yeah the stuff you just mentioned is a big deal this um doing a dry drywalls are are generally a good way to go with storm W the least impactful and expensive and all that kind of stuff this site would be tricky it would be very tricky on the site which which makes it out of proportion with the application and I would say that perhaps it could be linked to some kind of a material right a material Improvement at the site I think I'd like to work something up I I recognize that there there should be some parameters and I'm not trying to do Pie in the Sky I'm just trying to make sure that you know if in the future it's happening people are thinking about it looking at it and doing reasonable things to make it better if we can so can we Char can we charge the applicant to consultant our engineer took come up with again it's all about me about the guy who's going to write this resolution I'd like to have language that both were happy with but I'd also like to know that it's Fe you can do that right Jordan it's say it's feasible without doing any investigations no yeah but the investigation would be later I mean It's Tricky I literally just tried to do this three five days ago in my backyard and Marty Riser who would work in my house he's like well we got a lot of clay there and I started digging below that lovely red sand that we have there's a lot of clay right I did what you did uh what you were suggesting you know fabric wrap and I had left over gravel so I was like Mar here right he's like do that and you know it'll help but still it's not going to perate down the soil so I think Jordan what we would probably like to do is put it somewhere in this that if that parking lot is paved to do some kind of um you know survey see what's the best way to get rid of this water because there might be you know we we think that you know this area is that red sand that we see everywhere there's clay everywhere yeah and the water table is it's risen like two feet the only thing the only thing is though if they don't do it now to Mill it and then dig it up to do that is a dramatically this but if they do do it 10 years down the road 15 years down the road in there to say listen let's explore ways that we can keep better ways to keep this water within the property and then might come back and say you know there's nothing we can really do but at least it's in the wording that they do it I'm just saying functionally when they redo the parking lot it's actually a Next Level thing it's not like they're going to be down there anyway it's a Next Level it's you're Milling 10 years if they pave it they repave it and then it's month later and a year later it's it's realized it's in the resolutionist condition they yeah do we make them do it right away do they I mean to repave it as it is they need a construction permit I'm assuming so they a zoning permit Milling it and repaving it is entirely different from removing it and replacing it yeah and so we're talking about two different things let's not let's not mix the two that's that's my request for a materiality clause that I'm for right it's got to be there's got to be a material change not just a and and even if I think they reill it and repave it we could put something in there that they improve the slope so it is more away from these problem areas that we have on Smith in in that that area I I think that the the the 68 condition with regard to the pitch is established I think that the language that we have can simply amplify the board sensitivity to it the necessity that it be managed over time that if there is a full replacement and an opportunity to put in underground deten that it be investigated and to the extent that it's feasable that it be installed at that time we'll work up the language we'll get there um I I nobody's trying to hurt anybody that makes sense okay it's also very sensitive because and we all know it had been raining nonstop and everyone's backyard is sponged I think be if the parking lot is reconstructed not reconstructed yes that the roof runoff be sent because that's the cleanest that provides the dryw with the most longevity it's the cleanest water we don't want to take uh water from the parking lot put it underground right yeah there's there's rules about that yep yep got it anything else on the site so you kind of started with what you've changed from last time but are we oriented with the site is there anything else on here that we need to talk about nothing that we haven't covered at the prior two hearings so the Landscaping your you're installing the um effectively a HED R in front of those parking spaces correct you've talked about the plantings on the Westerly side yes um in the front of the building it looks like you've got a number of plants in front of the existing um ATM area that was the uh the whole thing about the reception area and the glass wall and providing now this is actually on the side of that we don't actually have any new shrubs in front of there's existing shrubs in front of the VES if that's a true fr we were asked last time to add those shrubs right in front of the old ATN to block I thought it was the reception are but it's all glass there okay so now we have shrubs across the whole front and are you planning any shade trees along River Road are they already there they are there okay planning one are you talking about the one on the on the west side yeah no that um exting tree that says to be removed that's going to remain that's a big one so with regard to the parking along the souly side the parallel spaces we kind of we had talked about this and we talked about whether or not they were going to be functional and useful and talked about pulling in driver's side door buting up against the fence how deep are those stalls based on your striping they are 22 ft long 8 ft wide pretty standard and and one is 7 ft one in the back is 7 ft by 18 ft it doesn't need to be 22 because you can pull straight in I'm not worried about the length I'm worried about the depth of them and I I think it's a practical matter you're going to find that people are going to park the way I would at probably 10 feet so i r to open my door without hitting the fence what happens to the to the traffic flow if that happens I nothing really I I think what really is going to happen is people are going to park in those nine spots that are angled because they're not going to need the four yeah we'd like to keep the four six um just in the rare event there a lot of cars here I don't think it's going to happen too often if people do now we have by that 7 by8 parallel space we show an 18 foot wide Drive aisle there which is what your ordinance requires for the angled space if for some reason that person pars 10t out I think that's a little bit of exaggeration but let's go with it um that 18 feet shrinks down a little bit it's still going to function and it's going to be for a very limited time well that that 18 the pinch point right it actually increases from there that's correct behind it is a lot bigger and say East End west of it it gets a lot bigger so that is a bottom so it opens Mr Fisher as one heads West on the site that 18 ft opens it becomes greater gets bigger it's about 20 ft wide and it's it's one way to yeah so you can have regular users here they're going to get familiar with the way it works they're going to know where they don't want to park there are some Street spaces that they can wind up using um it's it's reused versus laying it out originally and you know I got a yeah you're right it's a different animal going with reuse versus new design yeah and what's even more different than that is doing Municipal work pitching pipes at an inch over 100 feet drive a guy like me crazy so I get the go uh any other questions for Mr fixer with regard to the cycl crosswalk is that new is that is that a crosswalk there is a crosswalk yeah it is there yes so that's in front of the handicap stall angled to the main crosswalk on river is that what that is yeah that's where it is correct so that's going to be newly stried or that's there that's there it's there it's angled than how the driveway exists now okay and that's going to be the new pedestrian path travel the shrinkage of the driveway it used to be an ADA accessible route we don't have it that way but that's one of the reasons it will sued us okay um your question yeah I don't know who questions for but um at the beginning of this they said that they're basically taking the 68 resolution and building or improving off of that right um I know we had questions last time around but I don't know if we had answers um as to the fact that the 68 resolution called out a one-story building of 2300 square fet um but what we have now is a twostory building of 30 what 300 story and a half story and a half filming of 3,800 in change that right 3866 or something like that so if we're building off of that original resolution how are we getting to story and a half and 3,800 square feet from one story and 2300 square feet well let's frame the first piece of that so we're measuring square footage now differently than they would have in 68 that's for sure so if we have plans that are currently measured based on the existing um standards and the ordinances it's going to measure different on the on the Second Story You've got half of the Second Story which is mechanical and the condition that's going to be in the resolution that was offered by the applicant was that that's never going to be finished or used it's full of duck work I've seen it you would have to retool the entire thing but I mean we had pictures of that yeah that but I believe the applicants so so there's only 50% plus or minus on this on the Second Story which is which is usable um and I think out that that there there may well simply be a [Music] um I I don't know I don't know what what they were thinking in 68 and what they intended but I but I can assure you based on the finishes on the second floor because I just walked the building that there are it's old the bathrooms are very old I mean at at least 80s um if not earlier I I I don't think that um I have any reason to believe that what's there today was built outside of the scope of what was intended or to the extent it was it's been sitting there for decades um and the applicants proposed to make no modifications to the footprint of the building and only to clean up what's there is our resolution going to be referencing the 68 resolution and the parameters of the 68 resolution and this is what we are tweaking or is it going to start so so what I would suggest is we're going to start with 68 and we're going to lay on top the plans that we've got in front of us tonight and so the issue of the square footage to the extent that they're inconsistent would be uh reconciled with the plans that we have at present there are other conditions with regard to the 68 approval that related to off-site parking um I believe that because of the extensive discussions we've had about this particular user and the D variance that we've granted is specific to this user that that unless people want to talk about it um I mean the original approval provided for big 22 spaces off site um I don't think this applicant needs that I don't think this applicant is offered to provide that so as an example I I think that when you read it all together you would get that that wasn't a condition but we could go through it more specifically and pull things out so we we were charged with reconciling those conditions and I think by our discussion we've done that let me just run through them briefly then we'll revisit them to see if you think we haven't done them so the referring back to the nine conditions of the 68 resolution right first was to make sure there was a conveyance of adequate right at Wayland I think that's that's great way number two the 15ot radius Mr Fisher testified that been reconcile number three the six foot fence we're going to replace in kind with a six foot def fence number four the lights move because now we have the lighting plan that reduces the lighting right number five um utilities underground but whatever is there we haven't changed number six sign Mo again we got a new sign plan that eliminates the prior non-conformities even though there was a variance issued for the 12-footer right right number seven the drainage I think we just provided a good methodology to resolve that in the context of In fairness rational Nexus for the applicant as well as you know the board's concerns so I think we're building off of that though we are because it really it establishes a standard and a concern and what we're what we're doing is we're we're we're leaving what's there and we're talking about adding a couple of things corre the future so it's all going to be together number eight suitable offside parking for the staff we just said that's mooded because we park on site now and number nine building for the uh build build that building for the building code obviously any new improvements would have to meet the current building code and those are the nine conditions does that help I just want to make sure that there's a path from what we say we're building off of to what we're getting well there's no path to reconcile one story one half story and what's there the T just well I think the reconciliation is that we've got very clear plans now we've got a very clear understanding of how they're going to be used and that's the proposal and if we approve it we're approve it and we're a contract buyer a new contract buyer that just bought the property so we had nothing to do with the creation of what's there whether it was built in 68 78 88 whatever we bought it just a year ago right right okay back to you uh no further questions Mr pitcher at this time you have any more testimony more testimony any questions before we open in the public okay any members of the public that have any questions or like to make any comments regard of the application please step forward and uh give us your name and your address Dave ban 16 Colonial Court hi Dave hi um I've spoken with the applicant uh previously I was glad to see that the building is getting used the concerns that I have uh you've addressed um many of them with the lighting and the water um there is an existing problem with the Cy line right when you come out of Smith the hedges that front um River Road right now when you're at Smith trying to look out you cannot see to the left the hedges are too high right now so that's something that I'm not sure if the town planner has really looked into yet the um other question and this is something I did speak to the applicant about and it's a problem of noise and this wouldn't have even cross the mind uh except for ride is now there substantial noise leakage from ride and it comes all the way down the block Rod is a user in the acne parking lot in that extension that gots to Colonial correct correct and um it's already creating noise pollution so that would just be a concern that I have and I'm wondering has the zoning board looked at ways of examining or mitigating any noise that might come from this particular facility so we did talk about that last time so put put put what we talked about on pause for a second let's go back to ride them are rides activities inside of the building or are they outside the building I can hear it when I stand on just going out of my street I can hear it on three houses down so they're inside the building and you're still hearing it through the wall yeah so okay um Mr kovat can you do you have a copy of the uh resolution with regard to use and the conditions that are specific to the exterior um DAV as I recall um what we've conditioned the approval the fire approval on was no exterior speakers no exterior activities um there is there was discussion about time but the burrow establishes when when they can open and when they can [Music] close I think we basically eliminated any exterior we did and did we do anything further than that my opinion on that is that the two businesses are different in that um I live G in the near um near the old Clementine studio and they're loud you know those those I don't know how people put up with it but this is totally I I think the business model is different than the spin classes which uh loud music is a is a function of them applicant talk to me about that but I'm just concerned just because I want to try to alleviate any problems before they come up um like uh for instance that the building would change hands in a different exercise Studio would came if they Chang a model this isent on only one only once he leaves the use goes away and they will have to come to this yeah trly this applicant and the way he's going to use it and I would say this the the issue that we get into is how you're using the inside of your building right if you have a Noisy Neighbor that likes to crank Metallica at all hours of the day there are ordinances actually that are intended to address that right and even with regard to ride that may be something worth looking into And discussing with Council whether or not the existing ordinances are effective whether or not there's any monitoring and whether or not that can be looked into a universal restriction on all users would make sense what you would need to do here to go further than we've done is to start evaluating sound attenuation with regard to the structure itself which is particularly complicated um if you were building from scratch um and it can be expensive but they're not actually proposing to do anything that we would necessarily build that into um this is also a brick masonry structure although I'm not sure that the ride Studio isn't um we did explore it I I want you to understand that we did think about it and talk about it I'm trying to give you another Avenue to think about where it might be addressed sure sure and I just want to commend you folks on the lighting that was another concern that I had I think you guys did a great job of addressing that so the applicant did just so you understand the applicant originally came in with the idea that they wanted to conform with what the current standards were the minute the board said we're a residential Zone here does that make sense the applicant pulled back and did a lot of manipulation of what some of those ideas were to conform to your neighborhood yeah everything I heard tonight sounded really good I particularly like that you brought up the drainage and I was glad to hear that the board is aware of the drainage problem certainly all okay thanks thank you anyone else from the public yes Miss Blazer's behind she's on our way little closer M would you like to see a picture water the street the B is yes the right answer no it's up to you totally up to you do you have a photo on a piece of paper that we can submit into evidence a phone the problem is that we can't capture that into the record can you describe for us I mean first of all I I think we talked about it last time I've certainly seen some photos and I think we were generally aware of it one of the problems with regard to that is that that's a problem created by multiple properties in the area and general drainage patterns but I don't think you mention that the water that you put out onto River Road flows Westward there's a slight slope to River Road so it goes down and that's what exacerbates going into to Michel sell's driveway and down back from yards in back on anyhow that's a my big comment is yes it is still a residential Zone and if you took off the KOA and the Ade which are not logos like McDonald's golden arches so they're not necessary it would blend the building more into the neighborhood it would be a friend thank you m Donna do you have any thoughts on that from a planning perspective I I I know that for me I find it to be nice um I don't I don't find it offensive but is there planning analysis I mean I think to sign is the thing that makes it look like a commercial property more than the or the The Weather Vein houses have people in weather veins you know maybe it's a traditional combination with style of building one story ranches looking but uh I don't think there's necessarily a planning connection so my perspective on this is that there drive throughs or larger you know impact on the commercial aspect of the building than I think the yeah well I think that's fair and I think that that's very straightforward the issue with regard to the to the ospray in particular is that there's a variance triggered for it the the 10- foot KOA as it exists today seems to have been part of the building from when it was originally built even though it isn't identified of the resolution um I'm not sure how the other board members feel I don't know if there's anyone else here that has any particular opinion about it it strikes me as as neutral and personal preference I don't see it as I actually I find it opin know I don't feel strong about it my only thought about that was you know you mentioned you're going to prar Koop is not a structural element I mean just the Box basically sitting on top of your roof so if you're going to repair it why not bring it down to six feet I think the testimony was the windows would be repaired if necessary because they're boed up structure itself is attack but I mean the coule itself but if you're going to work on it I mean literally just a box and you could take a saw to four three feet on top of that box cut it down you know I personally here my my feeling I agree with the chairman I have no personal problem with the gole but it's not it's not a big fix is what I'm saying I I don't I don't actually have a problem with it I think it looks nice and it'll tie anything to them I think it's a nice element someone in the res didn't denor it no no understood I I don't I don't and if they lowered it I also don't think there's any way it functionally looks like a ranch with or without a go but if you but if you you took 3T off the Koopa what is it 10 ft now you brought it or you brought it down to 6 feet and you put another 30 in on top of it that's 8 and 1/2 ft and we solve a lot of problems I'm not sure any problems are solved I think we spend a little bit of money I think we wind up with something that maybe for a lay person wouldn't be perceptibly different um one of the things that I think about is what is the maximum height in this Zone I know if it were a residential structure to 30 what if we were in commercial what would be the maximum height for the building Ridge height 38 wouldn't it 30 30 no hold hold on in business one or business two it wouldn't be 30t in residential it would be 30 I'm asking you if this were in the business Zone easily could just so so just be mindful while this is in the residential Zone this is not unlike all of our commercial District it backs up on residential so we're sensitive to it because this is resi but the bottom line is it's really no different than many of the other areas what offering is this alternative perspective of if you were building new I believe you can go to 38 ft B1 is B1 and B2 or 35 yeah and I think that I think the overlay zones with regard to the affordable housing lets it go up to 38 and you'll see 38 when sooko gets built out and it is massive and this is not and so in in comparison with regard to the KOA I I'm looking at it on balance and I'm like and my point is I don't have a problem one or the other that was a suggestion look so much nicer as it does on the on the drawing I mean than it does right now right now it's all pain that I don't know you said it's boed right so once that it'll it'll almost appear smaller because it's and the painting the darker it's gonna be a huge Improvement to this stretch I like the ospr what's better than the yeah I am directly behind the bank I like CA I think it actually uh makes the building look better so uh I think even it as is with the off be and again I am directly behind the back so I see the C every single day thank you I mean you're also talking about whether something fits in with character of the neighborhood that's been there for 56 years it's it's part of the character of the neighborhood already it's my my the one question I do have about it though is if you're unboarding the windows and repairing those you're not planning on putting any lights inside the cop right no that might be worth noting in the Rosa we've had that problem in other places yeah are there any other residents with any other questions or comments with regard to the application let the record reflect no okay anything in closing uh other than to say that the applicant appreciates the opportunity to work through the conditions reconcile the 68 conditions improve upon the site based upon the revie comments and interactions with professionals thank you ladies and gentlemen for the opportunity to present this phase the site phase for you this even thank you thank you discussion I I think we've we've really covered it pretty well and I think that uh I think the changes that have been made to presentation has been done have been right on uh I I comment everyone on the professionalism of the of the application uh I think the Koopa does add to uh a little class to the building but it's not something that you see all the time and I think the car on top is the off so I like it you can tell SK like his face you know want to applicate for making all the changes that we had discussed in the last meetings it's made our job quite a bit easier um this go around and I'm fully in support I think looking forward [Music] to I look I think this is the best of par Haven I'm just so excited that we found um someone that wanted to use this building as it is um I don't think that um that you can do this just anywhere and I think that the community is really for um to have the applicant and his partner uh to be able to figure this out um I think when we build off the 68 resolution we can't go wrong I think we're making it better and I think that that's I think that that's really good um I usually wait until the end I hope that I didn't step on anybody no no nothing no I would agree with Dr laer um testimony the last two meetings it's a good plan agree with chairman it's a good use um recognize a building that's been in the area for 56 years being put to good use and heard from the neighbors they all seem to be very positive so almost s of like a motion Mr I one yeah I agree with everything said I mean I well didn't feel one or the other about that just threw that out there the one thing though that one brought up is can we do something to maybe look at that hedge that obstructs good point yeah um so triing the bushes so there's side triangle issue there Jordan what can you tell us about the existing condition versus the proposed condition and whether or not maybe that's already addressed well first of all I think that that would be a county issue but it sounds like they probably didn't look out com are those new Hedges going in or are they does it detect the there a couple of evergreen shrubs right at the corner and they're just a little too tall now turn them back zip them down chairman there's typically board members there typically a property maintenance code in town and so we'll make sure that the bushes you know meet that property maintenance code I'm sure once the thing is done and it's beautiful you're not going to leave over no no out of out of an abundance of cost just looking at the site it appears as though that bush at the the northeast corner if I've got my geometry right is out of the side triangle Ean it might be as depicted on the site plan but I'll ask Mr bitcher to check with the county uh planning department to make sure that any requirement the county has with the right to with site triangle Ean at County Highway and Smith Street is back yeah I think that because s triangle easan is going to have a maximum height 36 inches or something right and so I think we just slide in that that it'll meet those standards correct and just just because it is a county do mean that can have a official look at it also me or the engineer engineer think that's an easy we want it to be safe condition y okay anything further anyone have a motion yeah make a motion we approve stated here this [Music] evening relief conditioned upon confirming the height of the hedges on the for the side triangle and me those standards the op is also agreed um well based on the Testament Revis lighting we're going to have to Fashion some language with regard to water moving out of the driveway on Smith so that in the future in the event that there is what refer to it is material not material but basically if there's going to be significant work done at that driveway area that the a will explore ways in which to mitigate water coming off the site I think there's I think there's three specific things and I'm going to I'm going to tell you what I think they are the first one was with regard to the lighting and it relates to maintaining the lights um in the condition that they're installed uh I just think that the resolution should have a condition make them clear that to the extent that they get out of whack that they're be reconciled that's in case a resident called and says hey it's pointing into my house there'll be some teeth to be able to ask somebody to go out and do that the second thing related specifically to the exiting of water to Smith Street and so to the what what I have proposed is that the condition be that if it is observed by the burrow engineer um that there is water exiting the parking area to Smith Street um that there' be a condition inside of a resolution um that the applicant could be asked to install a barrier of some sort along Smith Street entrance so as to prevent water from exiting in that direction um exactly how that would be done would be subject to the Bur engineer at that time um but the idea would be for example something along the lines of a a speed bump or an asphalt barrier which would prevent the water from coming in and then the last thing was in the event that in the future um there is a replacement of the parking area uh which created an opportunity to improve the drainage on site through underground detention um that that be explored and subject to the feasibility of that um as reviewed by the burough engineer um that that be a um a condition of proceeding uh with the replacement uh of the parking area at some point in the future and and you can put in as a for example um the suggestion of group leaders be directed into that underground detention when when say became possible others that you relocation no lighting no Lighting in the C [Music] right Mr chair do you want to add that um the building lights will be in accordance with the exhibit that was presented tonight and in addition with the note there's two parts to it say say the building lights be turned off 1 hour after close it also specifies 8:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. yes I definitely do that and the other thing I just remembered is that the uh the sign for 10 and two would track the oceny by 10 and2 and be removed no reduction in signage square footage but but the removal of the um advertising identification of the second ten and the main sign would not be subject to the the onof correct yeah sign sign yeah the hours again so there's two parts it says one hour after Clos and it also says 800 p.m. to 5: a.m. there's two different light I think one of them is the business lights and one is the Outdoor [Music] Lighting well let's get clarification on what's intended and then let's just make sure it's called out in the resolution I think that works as propos but the the business hours might change um so so I so I think what what it sounds like they've offered is that the the lights the exterior lighting should remain on for so long as they are open plus one right yeah and that the signage lighting and flag pole lighting would be permitted to remain on at all times and and one hour prior to open because they open okay why I I guess you ever got up to work out I've never done yeah we only need an hour on either side of that well typically for safy I mean most most commercial buildings are lit now before they open they are in the winter the staff may coming in before not so much now but especially in the winter hour okay ask Miss anything yeah no and we're good with the chicken right I love the ospre ospr chicken no chicken sea chicken I'm gonna second Mr Ridgeway excellent excellently articulated motion and thank you for the ready for a roll call Mr yes yes yes yes yes thank you very much conat thank you for your time someone could M someone could take someone take exhibit 26 that we now have and give that to me proposal for a comfort um chill can we just do a quick roll call please oh I'm sorry Al not here here he is you're here here roll call and you're ready here here here all right we're ready for the LaVine application have anyone's going to testify in this matter please stand they be sworn with the TR yes okay I'd like you to hear is before you start before you start your testing when you're going to tesy please state your name the record if you like like to Mark some exhibits did you say someone's in the restroom still no so you're not ready to go yet uh she'll be back in a second okay well I'll tell you let's do the preliminaries but let's make sure we don't do anything important yeah we'll swear she comes in yeah and Mark some exhibits um A1 is the zoning board application and guidelines dat Janu sit down January 17 2024 the completed land views development checklist consisting of 11 pages uh A2 A3 is the list of variances A4 is list of waivers A5 reasons why variances could be approved A6 zoning office of denial letter dated uh December 14 2023 there are A7 is uh five images of sites about the property A8 is the survey pred by Richland and Associates dated is revised to June 15 [Music] um A9 is a Sign Sealed architectural plans tit of theine residents prepared by soci assign and development dated believe they were updated to May 3rd revised May 3rd Three Sheets the own CH T elevations FL plan area then we have A10 it's email correspondence of May 6th 2024 outline latest changes of the signature of official size there's also zb1 which is CME engineering report March 8th 2024 signature Rizo zb2 second report dated May 8 then over C CME engineering signature are there any other exhibits that I haven't set forth on this record yes there's a couple adjacent photos that the applicant took um these are in addition to the photos we've already marked as a A7 those were five images these are additional yes so these are photos of surrounding resent properties I have okay then how many Pi photos how many images four images Mark that A1 four Images has that been already submitted to the board before the state I think so surrounding properties approximately when were the when was were very recent photos last yeah okay just stand for a second you saw you saw swear that you saw me swear the testimony the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth I already blew that I already B the first part of my instructions because you've been speaking I just want you you spell your last name purp record State spell last L I thank you any other exhibits up to A1 zb2 than all right if you find them let me know we'll watch them if you want those to be seen by the board let me know you want them to be seen by the board Mr Shai you're um you're here at as a lawyer architect architect the U the board previously previously approved your credentials why don't you quickly tell us your credentials please and we'll um and we'll consider you as an expert AR sure y a licensed architect and landscape architect in the state of New Jersey and have you ever been qualified as an expert by this board or any other board in the loc area yes Y and it be pass um any questions about mr's qualifications very good Mr I know that your your client is here and we're going to talk about this in total one of the things I want to make sure that we get right up front is an understanding of what variances are triggered by your application board understands what we're focusing abolutely do um can I just go through the checklists checklist wa that are being requested there are five um these are standard and they're all for the most part not applicable so I don't take any exception to them um it is ownership disclosure statement um again not applicable in this case uh Mammoth County planning board application fre scg application mom's County Health Department application and then all easements covenants and deed restrictions which your knowledge is that not appable recommendation to we the checklist conditions any board members have any questions regard to those proposed wers okay see uh the two yeah so the variances there's two two variances uh one is the minimum side yard setback 7 FTS required 5.9 is existing 5.9 is proposed so that that would be an exacerbation of an existing variant so an increase uh but we're going to keep the step we're proposing to keep the set back as it is the other is the uh front yard driveway coverage uh 25% is permitted uh I calculated existing just under that at 24.4 and proposed is 37.5% it's on the on the table oh we looking at the C report must not be on C Page search so so before we before we get started on on how you've laid it out can you just help us understand um how we decided that this setback is is going to remain and can you help us understand what's existing and what's exacerbating based on your elevations I want you to do the whole dog show but let's at least get focused on that so we know what we're so so just be a little more specific is what you're asking I I'm I'm interested in in to the extent that you've decided that you're coming through the zoning board you decided that you really need this I want to understand how much of this existing setback exists right now how are you exacerbating it to what extent maybe we can even look at that elevation and then help us understand from the thought process as to you know why that's important sure y so I I'll look at the uh site plan first and I'll go the setback issue is on the right side uh 5.9 so 1.1 feet it is existing uh we are over the minimum side yard uh we are proposing a second FL addition uh I'll talk more about that later so this second story addition would be encroaching within that by lining up with the existing wall which generally makes sense from an architectural and a construction standpoint uh there would also be a horizontal expansion proposed of a one-story rear Edition and an open covered front porch that would match that setback so that is the that is the 5.9 I think um from a practical level an aesthetic level I think the uh Second Story Edition makes sense to line it up and given that it's only 1.1 ft which is probably difficult to discern in reality uh I I think that would really help out both uh for the applicant also I I don't see that it's a net benefit to bump that in 1.1 uh I I do think the rear the rear one story edition if if that was an issue could bump in without any any significant detriment to the design the front porch I I've had to do that in the past where you have to bump in generally it doesn't look as good if it's lined up uh again if if that needed a bump in 1.1 that could but I I think from an aesthetic standpoint that would make sense to keep that lined up so that is the minimum side setback variant again 7 FTS required 59 is existing 59 is proposed to be expanded uh the second uh variance proposed is the front yard driveway coverage and that is largely driven by uh we we' like to do a two-car attached garage that alone based on a seven 5T lot which is get 25% which is the max that gives you 18.5 ft width to work with which generally uh is difficult to achieve with a two-car garage if you were to do a combined uh combined uh garage door at 16 ft you can just get within there um but two car double wi garage do is generally don't look as nice as single doors uh then the main issue with that and something I think is which definitely needs to be discussed tonight is in Fair Haven uh we need for the amount of bedrooms which is four bedrooms uh three parking spaces the spaces only count uh as far as my understanding if they beyond the front yard setback the front yard setback is not just the zoning setback but in in past firms with Mr mway his interpretation is that be on the actual front facade of the building so in order to do that with the two-car garage that takes care of two of the three the third Spate proposed is a flaring out of the driveway to make it functional but also not to add any more driveway coverage we tried to somewhat minimize that but provide that third space which would be surface open air parking on the left side of the house how much I'm sorry say how much is that open air spot increase the coverage of the driveway on the on the property if we're we're at 22 let me think 22 ided 75 and we the balance of that is can you your question what I was asking is basically if you Lin the driveway up straight with the garage and you didn't have that flare to accommodate what he's saying is the so nothing Beyond nothing behind the garage if saying the actual trans to of the garage and the flare as well like if it was just a straight on good yeah so so it so I have this design at 22 which is driven by going to the going to the left and right side of the garage doors here right uh which I I think we we could probably tighten this up a little bit but if you go to that that's 22 if you take that divided by 75 that gives us about 29% so 37.5 so figure somewhere around 8% percent it as it's a sign it's a significant yes okay my my question about it is is there does the applicant feel that there's a need for that space on the side of the garage or are they just trying to accommodate the third space and have they considered requesting a waiver parking waiver for that third as opposed to over the percent of surface yeah so yeah we we discussed that is seem to us that it's going to trigger a varant either way if if it if we try to reduce the flare and take out the c space then we're in a condition where we're technically providing two spaces beyond the front guys are fortunately though you're using it anyway right I saw on the pictures and I passed by house all the time I saw I mean park in the driveway like a normal right person I I mean you were here for previous applications and part of previous applications and considering I don't know if you got a sense of how this board feels about storm water management and and Lot C and impervious servant coverage do you feel that that makes more sense than asking for a waiver I well and that's really up to you yeah well we have discussed way but they would prefer to have that third space and part of what we're going to talk about as to why is giv that its hands Road not it's the busiest road but I know in the several times we've met just back and out there sometimes you're waiting so what they're hoping to do they are planning on actually using the garage that's why it's attached is that it would reduce the amount of times you would have to car jackey uh but I think to answer your question as we've talked about is if if it's more important to have a reduced coverage B from storm water and maybe Aesthetics uh that's not something that they wouldn't they're open to doing that I know I'm not the only one but I I back on the River Road out an 11 foot wide driveway I'm sure there are others who similar circumstances so just you know yeah you got to have 20 or 22 feet to to pull on the H don't you have a don't you have an area there where you can back out anyway where you can back in on on the existing driveway so right now uh it's kind of underlaid on the proposed uh site plan it it is a seems to be well yeah roughly a single uh wide curb cut that layers out as you get to the house I I don't think it's quite check this it doesn't seem it looks like a left extension on the existing driveway where you can back into and that's that's when I've been there yeah I mean if if uh like if it's preferred by the board I mean just to keep that Left Bank that's currently existing and not do the extension all the way up if that's what makes the board happy I mean what's the math look like on that with driveway coverage if you keep that Left Bank that dotted line and are you saying like coming to like a single wide curve cut yeah what I'm saying is a driveway that's the length the sides of it are I think you mean the wi still keep the flare I think that's I have that spot me just double check at 10 by 20 so fig probably somewhere around 2% let's let's let's talk one at a time you guys have anything interesting over there you want to share with us yeah yeah you know there there's a beautiful tree uh just to the just to the west of that little cutout the driveway yeah are you planning on removing that that would have to be removed yes well you know that that's that's a magnificent tree and there has to be a way there has to be a way to save that tree I understand that if there's a there's a maple tree in front of the house uh I Japanese maple that that probably has to be removed to do your porch but I can I I really can't see removing that beautiful tree that's in front of the house and uh and you can still probably save that tree and expand the driveway and keep that backout area uh so that you don't have to pull out uh back out onto River Road that tree that you are you suggesting a driveway with driveway with the garage and then keep that pump out to the left yeah oh okay I mean you're still losing the two smaller trees directly in front of the house itself you are you are but but those trees are but I don't know near maybe a specimen tree I don't know wives one of those trees is also dead so we would like Tre the right of the house is dead okay but the the tree to the uh the big beautiful tree you could carve out a little area of uh of green there belly out enough to get to your garage and still save that tree what I would Rec which is going to help run off as well that sucks up a lot the proposed garage does bump out closer to the southern property line and that tree would be directly in front of the garage yeah I'm not exactly sure it's as simple as we're suggesting Mr sh is the is the black dot you just put on the plan proit location of that tree yeah I I'm processing uh I think a couple concerns I have uh and it may be a way to possibly achieve that one is if this garage were to be built it it would definitely impact the Roof System somewhat given that that driveway is there The Roots I don't I don't know the exact age of everything or when the when the driveway was built but I got to imagine any routes under that driveway already not really performing for the trade uh but I would agree if we were to remove the left side and do a car B that would certainly that would certainly improve the likelihood of survival for sure I think at that point what I'd have to look at I'm measuring if we were to do a double wide garage door which typically is single wide today is 9 ft time 2 is 18 but if you do a double wide not that aesthetically is nice but maybe to save the tree it's well worth it would be a 16 ft door and we have to bank it to the side and almost follow the line that's there right now uh and one thing I just want to so everyone understand why the garage is like it is is we're actually keeping the foundation around the perimeter so it's kind of Bank into that existing Foundation that's why that's the location of the garage for a two car garage is somewhat inflexible but that's why that's actually there but I I think I think we'd have to look at it but if we were to do a combined two far garage door we wouldn't be able to provide that third space which maybe is not as big of a de as we thinking we could probably work around that I don't know if we can say for certain now that the Trump and the branches would actually to reach out t house in my experience a lot of time I mean I I think I think because that's a one story portion as opposed to the two Beyond I think they'd be able to work around and trim the tree I find a lot of times what happens in these sorts of situations is the tree survives and then five years down the road it may declined but um yeah I don't know if you guys understand what I'm suggesting if if that's something that's really important which sounds like it is let's slow it down a little bit okay um tell me the depth of the garage as you're [Music] supposing it's 24 by 24 it is yeah okay I know there's a little L but is it 24 to that big or 24 to the 24 um I'm sorry where that all cut I don't know I'm just looking at the uh at the planet is it5 long is about 21 oh that's okay fine I see it now sh it but you're going a full 24 be deep in the garage yes in order to provide some utility along the back also given that they don't have a basement due to the water table uh we were going we're plan on putting some total along the back the more stuff you put in that garage the less usable it's going to be and that's the reason I'm asking because to the extent that it's not really going to be a useful two-car garage it's creating a lot of problems um what about mitigation of storm water is there a proposal as part of this plan to mitigate storm water uh with regard to the new um Ines no there's not whatever it if the ordinance in town when we went for review in front of I don't know if it's Mr Rizzo or the borrow engineer if there was any sort of requirements we would certainly meet those I think if the board is has been asking for kind of over and above as part of these procedures I would think would be open to well to the extent that you're asking for more impervious coverage in the front than what's permitted yeah think that the board has been looking at what's being proposed by way of the engagement you're going to be there you're going to have heavy equipment adding a dryw and and presenting to the board what you'll be offsetting is going to be helpful to you in terms of the board understanding some of the pros and cons of what you're putting on the table um so that was the reason that I asked okay I think you should help us understand how the remodeling of the existing structure is coming together so people understand what you're working around yes um and so appreciate starting with the hard stuff about pry okay so existing right now it's an existing restructure uh there are some uh additions that have been added on in the past they're kind of shot construed they lows subpar installation those are proposed significant the knowledge um right now the house I would say is a three bed two bad uh it's only I think about here it's about, 167 square feet but that also includes uh some of the rear additions that have been removed uh the the house is a clay tile structure we can tell that's why they have the thick exterior walls I'm sorry it's a what clay tile structure yeah it's kind of like masonry from whatever period okay uh it's actually really strong it's just hard to work around so in speaking with the contractor who actually we we did the same thing at his house on farer in Fair Haven uh so he he's familiar with the process of how to work with this but basically he suggested from a cost perspective to maintain what we could of it instead of demo the whole thing down so effectively we'd be gutting the interior of the house maintaining a pretty significant percentage of the X theor playay tile wall and build doing a small addition out the back for a living room and then building up off of that above would be a wood structure traditional structure uh residents um so that's the existing conditions there is a cover P between demo the front side will stay roughly the same and aesthetically as I'm looking at the the plan the site plan it looks as though the front of your proposed porch is going to line up with the front of the existing cover porch or does it extend further towards Street uh it extends I think a foot or two further just to make it a little more usable and what are your your setbacks to both the garage and the proposed porch the garage is 30.7 the porch is porch is about 36 ft so it's about 30 it's 30.7 to the garage faade and 36 to the open side proba 4 and the minimum front yard is 30 30 um so the first floor The Proposal is to and do the two attach garage uh you would walk in BO stairs going up uh flex room off the front uh a back full B mud room that would beat in from the garage so it's kind of like a kind of utility Zone here uh a den off the side that's currently the master bedroom dining kitchen living room this is the one-story rear Edition uh we had originally proposed a open deck and patio but the Revis plans were included a uh just putting a roof over this as a lot of people like to do the and this is the portion that I was mentioned is encroaching if we board saw fit I think that can bump in the the 1.1 that it made a difference um the second floor is to provide four bed rebath the uh stairwell would stop here or get to the top here there' be a hallway as well as a loop up to a attic which would be habitable but doesn't doesn't add to the habitable floor area haveit on the left side of the house is a master suite the right side is the three kids beds one's a common bath one's a non suite and then the uh attic plan is really just a result of what's left over in roof frame and part of the concept of the attic plan was that given that it doesn't have a basement it's kind of a pseudo basement alternative I don't think it's as functional but it at least gives them some extra space for kids sort of stuff like that that's why we did it what's the what's the rid height on the house as the the ridge height is I think we maxed it out it's just it's pretty much 30 30 at Ma 30 Max yeah from the average grade okay the when that are in the center of the house see them that's right those should be there yeah those would be those would be right there that's correct thank what's your what's your uh maximum ceiling height in the attic space the attic uh we haven't totally finalized whether we drop it to seven or would just go up to where the collar ties would be okay um but if we were going to go up to the collar ties and I don't think it effects the zoning definition I would estimate that would [Music] be actually puts it right around yeah right around uh I would say probably about 8T to the colage and so as you showed the footprint of the attic space the the perimeter walls that's come down zero this here is a dormer that gives a little more headro pipe for the stairs required by code uh to meet the um these are knee wall Heights brought in so it' be zero or or even less than zero once you get to the dash line but this is a knee wall height at about three and a half fet um the knee wall Heights on it's kind of hard to explain but that these these Gables that come out those would be about three and a half feet and then this I think is also three and a half across and again what happens here is this Dormer out the front shed Dormer also gives you know enough clearance head height for the stairwell right there uh these ends are all Gable ends so those go upward so now I I would say none of these go down to zero they're they're bumped in from the outside wall Mr St can you just confirm for the record that the attic won't be used as a bedroom bathroom or kitchen no and you've done the calculation um and your attic area at 7 feet or greater is less than oneir of the floor below it in which case you're considered a half story and don't count towards floor area yes so it was about 25% versus 13 yeah the the the representation is that it conforms to the um to the Attic and that's also a building code if you know it counts another story it triggers another level of fire so that's why generally Z so can you go back to the um to the elevation and show us the short side short side like the left side yeah uh I guess it's the north side right the one that that that needs set back GRS oh yes okay good so yes this would be this is basically the existing structor that we're adding up onto so that would be a Gable end here Gable turn toward uh toward H this would be the open-sided front court and this is the proposed addition out the back once toward the do you have a layover of the existing um elevation against the proposed is it shown on your plans that way not drawn um kind of estimate what that would be it's uh generally a Hitler structure so uh best to do I think from from the front the generally go something like this so wherever it terminates at 8 ft even though we're we're proposing to add 1/5 to the ceiling height it terminates at 8 ft and then goes away from the neighboring residence and then from from this perspective the roof line the uh the E would start here and then receed back as kep FL if you're changing the first floor ceiling height you're removing all the first floor framing right no you can build up off that yeah yeah apparently the the extra cost I would think kind of what you're thinking is just demo but when we're speaking with the contractor he said if we can maintain that for whatever reason that add that saves significant to the cost I would have thought just take it down on the foundation myself but it was because it was block they said they would just add another layer of block yeah so you're right we would add one foot of block on the first floor and then convert to All Wood exterior and based on that's the tile whatever the clay tile yeah the second floor in that in that right side elevation what's the front room there I'm just thinking once we go up but I know it's only a foot in but there's a lot of wall space there that we're now putting into the setback what is there an option to put another window there somewhere just to give it a little bit of open yeah I think we could the only reason I had not was just because of furniture layout but uh I think in this case it would make based on what you're saying I think that would be an improvement we could put two small Windows one over each side of where the knife stands for if that was how they would furnish it we could do like a transom window on the front tire up bring some light yeah right some of that blank wall That's fa in the neighbor yeah I have the same impression by the way when when you're when you're that close to the to the lot line it just it just feels a little start and I'm wondering how it can be dressed up in order to sort of mitigate you know um how close it feels I thought the same on the first floor but I think that's the kitchen right you can't flab yeah yes we have one that's a sing window there to do but if we could do something on a second floor yeah so those windows would be something like that I think the addition of the second of those additional Windows would improve the appearance of that but I I would also note that it's adjacent to the it's adjacent to the neighbor's driveway so that it it looks like there's a pretty good area there uh that's un fluttered that's where their their house is set back from so your second story really holds the perimeter of the first story right so you didn't have an option to move that box more Central to the lot and move it away from the proper the whole thing or just a second floor just a second floor uh I you're saying is Mo move move it significantly not just 1.1 ft or whatever move the whole thing over uh generally well you're You're Building all there it's not as if you have a single story area where you could have moved it that way over you it seems to me you're utilizing the entirety of the book we are in fact we even overlapping just a little bit the garage below here but yes you're right the second floor is the whole thing plus a couple feet out at this corner but yes that's correct which you prise the board I see that to the northern side side yard line lot line you depict a driveway there from the images that I see from C new's report further back how far is that garage that seem to be associated with that fire with the neighbor on the right side neighbor on facing the front neighbor on the right side how far from that lot is that guys have a sense from I think talk about up here right yeah it's their driveways like here the garage is like over here so it kind of it's a little bit past where your house currently ends so so in a little bit [Music] there oh yeah a lot it might be a little further than that but but what's the house next door to the extent that you're that you're putting stock in the idea that they're not there is that subject to Redevelopment or is it a new house that house over yeah what does that but what's the house next is that one pictures that you have it's one of the photos that was I think Mr R taking this photo but yes it's on yeah exact brick fireplace on the other side of the uh yeah on the other side of the driveway that doesn't look cramped over there no I think I think the closest structure is the garage Str right right so so my sensitivity is to doing the full 30 foot that close to the property line and it looking St so the first question is that you talked about a masonry structure on the first floor Timber construction on the second you've got a consistent siding material that you're using on both yes you're going over the masonry y I feel like I want that side because it is so presented to the neighbor to look more to to look scale it down a little well it isn't I your massing is okay you're only at 30 feet you've got some flexibility with regard to that rear addition and you've got some flexibility with regard to the porch but you've got a full 30 foot you're going it's going to be significant change from what they're now you said you've got your roof back going back the other way I'm I'm wondering if there's a way to break it or add an aesthetic Improvement on that side to soften the the the feel of that as a big tall wall what if what if you use some Landscaping in between the windows and the bottom floor problem with Landscaping is they can go in today and they can be cut down tomorrow well like my house for example is on top of the neighbor right and we have a whole bunch of we have like a bunch of um arties no they're not Ares it's a type of Holly it's like a um red beauty or something and it grows big and it's in between the Stu and my house is on top of my neighbor's house right and we have some windows in the gaps we have some ground cover or whatever um their house is equally as tall as mine different situation from yours but I don't know maybe that's a cost sufficient alternative that doesn't require totally well I think you're a little constrained the kitchen where it is you can't really do anything more windows on the bottom FL which is really what they crying out for um I think Windows help Windows would help I think you could band it I think you can put a you put a trim piece that goes all the way between the first and the second floor break it up a little bit you could actually do some sort of the roof element or something to little eyebrow a little eyebrow roof or something that's what I'm looking at if there was a way I again I don't know the bo feeling on lining this wall up or bumping it in a foot the addition out the back but maybe if we extended and did a little bit of an exaggerated overhang we could run it across and still keep the wall flood that's what I'm talking give little proba nice yeah I think that's a reasonable way to do it it would be it would be extreme cost wise either no I don't think so but I I like that approach because I agree the Landscaping I know a lot of times boards approve Things based on Landscaping but who's maintaining that who's checking it so I figured they're probably G to put it there anyway Circle you proposed one story addition yeah on the first floor U how close is that going to be to the neighbors's garage we don't have that on the survey I don't believe um but from I think the garage is roughly here relative so again take this the neighbor the neighbor's garage is is freestanding I think I think at the minimum it appear that they're at least six seven feet back from the property line so let's call six this is 5'9 so it's about 12 structure the structure just I I think that that is going to j a little tight and and I think that when you originally presented what you explained was that if you pulled it back the foot foot and a half that the function would remain pretty close and that is an addition right yes because one of the things that you would gain if you set that back is that you would start to break up that wall of the house and you would soften where you really need to go straight up and I understand that as a practical matter going right up on your existing Foundation there's a lot of efficiency to that but when you add that addition if you broke that and just set it back aesthetically it's going to feel very different and I actually think there'd be a real benefit to that as you look at that elevation on that side okay anybody else it also help with landscaping and that if you bump that part in to put it back that proposed first story edition how much what is that what is that going to be I mean is it that's going to be the main living room and it's going to be open to the kitchen so this is kind of more of a r room uh it's going to be a vaulted ceiling low vault it's not going to count as two stories I me we ran into that a while back um so yeah it's going to be the primary living room is it going to be not is it so it's 1.1 feet is what you would do right is it going to be visible on the inside where it's like a weird notch or will be concealed in the out envelope of the house so for structural purposes I'm leaving the little return wall here that also serves to end the kitchen the fridge goes again so kind conceal it anyway so I don't think it'd be a major know if you guys feel do and you could slide the whole thing you wouldn't lose any square feet and you'd still have all the utility in the center of the L everything could just slide that way right my perspec is it would be pretty easy to do we figure out what to do the only thing is we were going to put like a like a almost like a builtin next to the fire place so that might jut out a little bit from just from a visual standpoint but I think otherwise I think we could make that work right now that is right now that wall on the living room side is about a little over two feet and normally you do 12 up to 18 in so fine make it work well you don't you could slide the whole addition on the first floor on the yeah no I agree because it's an addition it should be a zero cost Factor right just talking about moving it slightly the aesthetic benefit that you get from the outside I think it's straight forward because as you break up those pids you're going to get some Advantage what that does is that softens the request to build up over the area where you get the efficiency of being able to build on the foundation um talk about the front porch it doesn't it doesn't feel like that has the same necessity that's that is where this this I I agree with how you guys looking at it I think the porch I I think visually would look much better lined up it doesn't look good when it bumps in um and to your point just the fact of the scale of it and then it's open sided I don't think there's any benefit to that it actually helps I mean it's one of the prettier elements of that side elevation and I could probably if we're like I was saying one way to get an eyebrow coming across here would be to expand that but if we're bumping that in we're prob we would lose that but we could pull some sort of detail off the porch across by the time it recedes no one from the street would really notice Y where that came from but the porch would not go further into the setback though no it would be the same five got so I think that that's a way to do that and it doesn't because you always got to think where does it resolved but I think by the time that corner it's not wor so isn't there an exception with regard to a roof overhang yeah that wouldn't VI accept that two feet two feet right so can we go back to the driveway yeah I like these ideas you've got two variances right so we' talked about the house generally we've got two variances to talk about I think we talked a lot about that side let's go back to what we were talking about with regarding the driveway the function of the two-p par garage the the the the tree so I think kind of pick up on that suggestion would be again I think I think some of the initial questions uh Mr cetti I think asked a question is are were we doing it solely to meet the three car uh somewhat but I think when we looked at it it was preferential but it it's not something I think I think as long as we if we can keep the the current like turn off that currently exists um I think you keep that lose the third parking space right if we yeah keep this and get rid of this I think that's negative to the r to the previous coverage is is something that you want to I think if you do that though you're going to have to straighten that flare because it looks like it goes up left it probably better if it was yeah you're G have to reconfigure it I don't think you I I think a few things I have to look at would be I think we we'd have to go to a double bay 16t door which I know it's not preferable but I my personal opin if it's going to possibly save the trade I think that's pretty good trade off and then the other thing we have we we'd have to basically Center that door almost on the existing driveway and then I I would think we would add I think we would add build this area then right here so this would roughly line up with a two where they would be back to the side totally agree can I see a picture of the so I really I I I like Tre they really do yeah it's it's gonna buch out of the house so so moving to but the other thing that we got to remember right and because i' I've had this experience of trying to preserve trees what happens is that if that root system gets affected by the construction and it gets compacted you're going to lose the tree and as much as it feels good to save it today boy the stupidest thing you could have is a house that's been built around a tree that's not dead yeah the one other thing we like to add is the electrical lines currently run through that tree so it lights up only the right if you look at this picture this tree has been hacked up it's been hacked up so know it might be better to remove the tree and replant something which we'd be happy to do the small my other question well but as we're pass around the tree so with the new garage obviously this is for storage they just um and you have the shed back there what's the uh plan for the shed our thought is to get rid of the shed once we have it brush that'll help I think are we do you know what year that Google Earth is because when I was looking at it that that might not be picture looks the picture in my packet looks different than the picture that on I took that this afternoon oh you the picture I wonder yeah look at the resolution high resolution I was skiping buy real SL so I have seen skip at proper so I got to tell so we've talked about a few trees that are coming out talked about a tree that we'd like to preserve and we've talked about some of the difficulties I personally you know you can plant uh a three or or 4in caliper new Maple in two or three years those trees are going to look really really good if they offer to put a couple in the front with those trees where they're going if this tree comes out and we talk about replanting a couple of of nice trees I think in a few years years we're going to be okay I got to say with regard to the with regard to the front driveway however you're still over even if we do that you're you're going to be close to the 37% and you I'm thinking a dryw to offset that would would really help to mitigate that extra lot coverage because you have the 75 foot wide lot it's it's better than a than a 50 in terms of what you're working with it's not all black top um but I feel like offsetting with um with leaders that are going to go underground you're going to be building in the back you can you can do a dryw you're can have the machines there it just feels like that would be a good offset to what you're saying keep the side spot um actually I I'm indifferent as to whether or not the S spot should remain because I think by the time you do that Notch out you're going to be really close to the 37% anyway if it is eventually used it's useful you can't park in this area on ants um and so we need to be thinking forward right so the kids eventually go from here to so I almost have one ready to drive and it's scary but there's got to be a place so um if you think you're going to use it and you're going to offset it and in the end it's got the function of the turnaround I don't feel strong in the end we're looking at this as our forever home and we have a third with a second child in the way with thoughts of having a third I at some point in our life we will likely have a third car and having that small turn off will give us the ability to be able to pull two out in the garage and one there it's no no cars being blocked in I think the dryw would address it and I know Al said earlier you know newer Construction in general they abide by that stuff so it wouldn't be too hard you do have a wide lot you are going to be doing a ton of work on it anyway it's not overly it's not overly costly even though that's not the decision that we base it on but it's the only thing I don't know I know Mr fer talked about this in the last meeting I I do know there's a high water table we don't have a Sol boring I don't you guys may be more familiar with what the Sol like so you have to confirm it obviously yeah I wouldn't want to have him do it and it doesn't perate so you'd have to prove that it doesn't prove that whether it's a high water table or so don't um I know we've done this before if it doesn't then the only challenge that is it doesn't if it doesn't right you take out the tree which helps and you got a lot of driveway and more mass on the property that's the problem so if if a soil born was performed and it showed that parky doesn't help right we we consult with an engineer then the question would be would that change how a boards thinking about the driveway don't know where that go I I think the answer is yes I think if we knew that you could make the the runoff condition on the property better not withstanding the fact that you're over on coverage in the front it makes it easier I'm not saying that we can't figure something out if you can't do it but my what I just cavalierly said with regard to the parking area changes a little bit to the extent that don't have it why because it then then we're not even at the 37% we're adding more impervious as we go backwards um and so it's it's an impact it one lot of a time I think if it didn't work the drive didn't work I would be supportive of a driveway that matches the width of the garage and take off that corner piece and I think that's close enough if you lose the functionality but you will have like everyone in town you're going to have runoff problems and it's going to be you're going to have a soupy yard and I think it's going to be worse than you think I think yally to the have you guys ever noticed ponding uh not in the front so I think it all goes in the system storm system somehow I'm guessing yeah yeah when we've yeah it does actually we know because we've pumped water out of the 12 space into like around here it tends to just flow right into the driveway like right down the drive driveway how deep is your crawl now I I was down there briefly I would say the Clear height would be somewhere around maybe around the height of this table 30 in 36 in you get standing you said there's no water kind of front but do you get standing water in your yard uh only on like the the like the couple of the major storms that happened um otherwise no yeah we're all that does crawl get one those neor storms it does but we're we're planning on put like refinishing currently I can't speak for everyone else but I think i' would be supportive of the the width matching the house if you couldn't do it the drive would be a huge Improvement cuz my house is on the slab and it's the water issue is we have a higher water water table as well so you were saying if a drywall is something that can actually be done turn off keep the little turn off as is if not maybe you keep it with narrow it to whatever it needs to be okay I'm looking I'm looking at the side elevation and there's this projection off of the front of the porch is that the existing oh oh that's a garage that's beyond yeah this garage bumps out garage is proud of just going back because I'm looking at the front elevation when you were talking about going over a single garage don't do that it looks like no I think that's right I think the house is attractive from the front I think that your Dormer situation for the stairway is a little creative but I think it actually I think it actually works but I think the two garage doors is important I think it it really helps a single door there look like Flor and and I like the balance the front porch and the columns look really good so so on the left a what what are you showing what what is that I'll just start the upper dash line represents those DS to get the stairwell to work which is a little challenging the right sides of the garage we did a hip roof we played around with some different options but the hip roof minimize the the visual impact of the uh one story garage the left side is looking uh at the on story living room Edition Beyond and then the we we're doing a simple shed room uh for the covered porch so that's the outside wall of covered Port uh that's through to the side of the den yes a good way looking at and that's all so that signs a little STK too how much of that are you gon to see from hands you going to see all that I I think realistically after this probably not much I mean amount of like like bushes covering it so you really only see it when get the mouse I mean I think we could take the same approach of adding a window or two I just found in general I think your guys could just do the same window here it is like it better I know I don't know what you guys say because a lot of people on St here push back on adding any windows in garages for security or whatever that for but if you guys if you're okay with that adding a window or two a long here we lose some utility on the wall space but it's probably worth probably worth adding at least a window I don't know if that's more no I actually think it would help a lot I I have a series of windows in my garage and it's nice because it's lit but and then from the street it looks like part of the house it looks it looks nice I have a orange garage two windows three Windows actually and it's a tremendous help just a light yeah y bird gets in there you open them up and they can fly out but I feel like I feel like the the window design on that side could could be improved a little bit as well just to make it a little bit more I think once you get back to here I think at that point it's not much impact from the street plus just bumped out a little bit the other thing that keeping note um I'm not saying it's a big difference the only reason we didn't add another window there was first it kind of made sense it's probably a TV wall but also that some of the clay power even um but I don't think that's going to impact anything from the road but I do agree I think that would go a long way to help so I just you know because that's an addition you can frame it in it's not a big deal into the tile wall I I can understand that so you're really working with the existing window that you have on that first floor then yes that's where that came from but I would think I would think maybe add two windows along there to match that and I agree I agree with the light you take sec we should be jumping around a little bit what do we what do we land on with the driveway so we're not landed I think the problem that we have is we don't know whether or not a dry well is going to work I think that we're struggling with the trade-off on the Aesthetics if we did something with it at all and I think without knowing whether or not they can drop any water into the ground it's a struggle to know whether or not the the higher percentage and lck coverage is is material enough to to want to try and TW I oppose the double option just thinking I know the double option don't practically how that works so so Frank proposed and I think this would allow us to get through it tonight to the extent that you don't feel strongly about seeing ins side elevation again which I actually think I'd like to but if you went directly in you narrowed the width of the driveway to the outside of the garage doors and for that matter they seem to be a little the space between them seems a little lder than need be we we could narrow that I I think we take that down not the door open you 18 in can't you yeah I think I don't like to go too narrow for a light between I've got it at about 30 um if we did go narrow would narrow the driveway a little bit as well I think normally once the trim goes in so if we did two feet the trim it's going to be 4 to 6 in on each side that's where if you go to 18 all of a sudden you get like a little strip aside so I'm thinking 2 feet lead you're 9 and N plus two what's that you're 9 and N9 plus two yeah so that'd be 20 and then normally you could do the driveway right up to the edge but normally it looks a little funky but I think in this case given the what you propose 20 22 22 so you got a foot on either side and that's all you have right now it's only two feet in between those two doors you said put a light fixture in between the light fixture in between the two that right now it is it's 3 feet right now and what I was saying we could go I think we could go down the two and still leave enough siding without it looking flimsy and I that would probably look better quite frankly show okay so so Fran proposal is that we do an A and A B right so we do the straight in kind of what you need to make this function and I assume that would be conditioned on there being no ability to drop any water into a drywell corre and that to the extent that there's the ability to drop the dryw what would alternative be look like what they turn around still parking or people don't feel stronger if you can drop a drywall I'm more inclined to say us get the third space yeah on the side on a side which is using that piece that exist no okay strip over it okay and I would actually be I would actually be okay with that too I but I think it's got to be we need to it's not like an option do we want to go drywall do we not it's you try to go dry L if it doesn't work then dry and can it not can you have the third space and have it curve in just a little bit not go the house yeah I mean I definitely think you're going to need that we four cars my house I have three kids and now two drivers plus my husband and myself so I know that it happens and it would be really hard to manage any at least you know if you could park a car there then two and then in the driveway but I would hate to see you have none of those on remember the plan is to be able to use the garage though yeah I haven't ever been able to use my but that's the plan they actually do want to use their garage which I I see it the way you see it though so in reality you've got parking in practicality you're parking four cars now with the Cy because you're going to park the car the drive so is everybody comfortable with the idea of tree replacement versus tree preservation yes that's unfortunately skip coming around yeah I'm right you know the tree packed up well you know there's a there's a would you if the tree has to go would you be willing to put a tree in the northeast corner of the lot which basically would serve the same closer to the street there currently is actually there it currently a tree right here tree right here yeah the uh see where the PO is on the yeah on the left on the as you face the house on the left y Northeast pter um would you be willing to put a tree there because I don't think there is there now is there we talking about right here yeah yeah there there currently is one oh there is one I think if they right get that tree we're more happy to put another one but that tree looks like it's going to require permit and if you get a permit if I remove the tree you're going to have to replace it yeah with a tree we're more than happy to put up as many trees required so what do you have across the front and we talked about something being dead and something being I thought talk about threee removals dead so smaller and bigger yeah there's a tree right here that's dead and there's a tree right here that is alive what currently at the street there's one one right here and then this one and then there's one uh right here that's on our neighbor it's our neighbor's property tree so it's right up to the property line there's two ornamentals the dead one's on the right this is the one that was discussed that is hacked up and I agree in general we probably would be doing a little bit gymnastics to work around it and odds are good chance it's going to decline over time anyway despite then I'm I'm okay with take I mean but so there's two trees that are going to go one one is the Japanese maple that's directly in front of the house and the other is the big tree that uh is just house house toward towards the house uh on the side of that cutout yeah and and the other thing that get uh Mr Rizzo's report was ask in any other trees there is again we don't have a vegetation survey there is two trees here uh one I I think we we believe is most certainly going to have to go right along here and there's another one that's questionable one I believe was a Hol form call uh if you look on page seven of CME report you kind of start to see on the left side are there any in the backyard or just the one these are the other General yeah I think there's also prohibition against taking more taking down more than 25% of the trees on the lot so if you if you've only got two four theti six trees the entire yeah the entire lot is like there prob at least like 10 in in your in your yard though not not on proper line in the in the neighbor's yard or anything like that I I would also suspect regardless whether they required or not I I imagine you guys are probably going to replant definely not not the shrubs but probably a couple trees along there think yeah so does fair to say that it feels like you've got room for two shade trees in front in location yeah well assuming you're taking out the one that's by the driveway and whatever else you're clearing is two two too many a shade tree I would think maybe one in this corner given the two that are existing I mean maybe if you crowded I think that might be a little crowded but I could see one maybe on this corner well Al I mean if you don't if you don't end up going with a flared out driveway you put one to the left of the house too it would be a nice to the the yeah is the tree we could def spot without eating anything it give some privacy to the house too is the tree on the northeast corner of your property on the neighbor's property or is it on your property that's on ours no skip it yeah noreast one that's on their lot line but you got nothing to the right of the driveway right nothing to the right of the driveway correct is isn't that a good place for a tree or is that not good my personal preference I think if you have a a shade tree more in the center of a lot it tends to look like on these type of lots it looks misplaced I think more of an ornamental would work if anything better in that zone so one we down from two to one you got room for one but you going have to remove the two in the front where the covered porch com out two two ornamentals in the front those have to go one by the three here so it' be three one of which is De it's called three uh I think if there's no driveway turnoff here if the if we're saying if the soil uh Test shows purple purple aing is not going to work I think we could certainly add one that probably be a good addition here and I so I think that's a potential depending where that goes I could see one in in this Zone that would also give them screen from the driveway right there I think that'd be the one definite spot this would be a potential depending if they ended up doing the um uh system in the soil Advantage then back here I think if we want to be safe we say both would go one of the trees doesn't seem very valuable it's kind of Scrappy one is a holly which I think has more value but I would say those two would go but I think you got to certainly replace those this is a requirement anyway but can we just make a condition of any approval that they'll seat the uh the burrow tree removal yeah feel like there's a lot of if this then that's I think if I'm understanding like the main if is g to be so if we if we if we got rid of that turn off and just did to propose straight is that resolve like regardless is that resolve the I think for me that would resolve the fact to have a drywall we'd obviously prefer it but I think that gets you pretty close to the 25% upper everyone knows the the coverage with the driveway isn't total loot coverage it's it's strictly Drive driveway coverage where is the toal loot coverage relative to the standard we 45% permitted we 406 so little 41 and the shed might come out too we left it on just but they 40.6 is with the flare of the driveway though so if that comes down it goes even further right yeah I think if we totally took that off just not not just a side portion that was about 2% figured that come down roughly 3% so 37 38% Rel 45 I'm struggling with the fact that that that driveway is that tight to the 25% of the front yard it's crazy that's it doesn't I've run on I've run into this on a few other jobs where gymnastics to make it work even on 100 foot line yeah it's a two put it's a two car garage on a 75 and it's really it's really set up for a one yeah um and and and house in the middle a lot too true are you proposing keeping the third parking spot I think what we're I think what we're saying to avoid the ifs possibilities that that's probably uncomfortable for people is just Jeff do a double y driveway lining up to one foot on either side of the garage doors which should be a total of 22 wide ni to third parking space but I think that would trigger that would trigger a parking variance because we one providing third space uh I think I don't know what you guys thoughts but so far the conversation was the driveway would help kind of the board with expanding the driveway but if we weren't going to do the drive well drive Well we'd certainly have to narrow this up um know still want us to look at doing the driveway I'm sorry I sure where the drivew landed if they just went back to I think what we're saying is if we mixed all this Paving and it just simply two separate garage doors that then the dryw would be necessary so Mr Shide can you can you kind of summarize the what we've kind of agreed with here and the proposed changes we we come up with so that we're the same page so my understanding we start with the X here the drive driveway and the tree is we would do a 22t driveway which would be the two 9ft doors with a twoot gap between and a one foot overlap on each side and we would run that straight out to the street we will bump this into the 7 foot minimum uh that's the one-story rear Edition the covered torch would stay as is but we will add a eyebrow roof detail going across the P to break up that facade uh sorry uh you know I'll finish with the architecture not for the trees and then what we would do is add two small bedroom windows like not egress size windows but ni stand size uh along the right side facade in one bedroom we would add two similar small Windows any the garage door on the left sorry garage uh on the left side I think that was it for the architectural and as far as trees go uh we'll meet whatever the ordinance requirement is you know let's assume we're red two of these in the back that made trigger and then in the front since we're basically saying we're going to n this part of the driveway we would add two shade trees roughly in these locations given the existing shade trees that are going to set I think that so I just want to make sure you you don't want to try to push for the third parking space in the extra driveway by pursuing the drivew first I think if we get comfort from the board that you're good to go with this I think we would be happy to do that so I think I think we're actually moving towards getting comfortable proceeding tonight I don't think it is too complicated to offer up the primary plan of proceeding with the driveway as you originally proposed it subject to you being able to comply with the drywall requirements and that if that does not work falling back to the 22 foot straight which would then permit the tree on that side I it's a touch complicated I I I think in the end you're better served if you get the parking I think your neighborhood's better served if you get a dryw but I think as a practical matter the scaling it back to the 22 straight deviation from the ordinances we we've struggled with how how else to do it there's no further reduction that's appropriate and I think that I think that that would work I don't want to push you to do that if after all this discussion like too complicated just keep it simple but but if you want to do it then I would propose that the board approve it that give them the option first to try to dryw keep your third parking space I think that's I agree after here and everything else I think the toggle is pretty not too complicated and the one other thing would be if if the driveway did extend if the drive well does turn out to work would that would that ni the obligation to do a second shade tree in the front L that' be the only other I don't see where else you could put it because you said you have one in the front lap you don't like it to the right of the driveway and then you Ed the other piece you may have to put it somewhere on property anyway because of the the Chas your I think everybody would like to believe you're going to landscape the back in a nice way but we don't want to do it for you yeah um don't know what the new wance says yet no I don't think it's is um the new is not the dryw assuming it's something that makes sense right we we'll have a soil boring done we'll have an engineer look at it to see what that would do do you guys care what water it's capturing or it got to be the driveway so it's got to be the roof what you should do is you should draw everything that's feasible to be drawn in that direction and it's going to go in the backyard that's the place it's going to work and you should run leaders that are feasible to that new dryw well but if you find that you've limited capacity then it would be what you know what is there a uh and again I'm not trying to complicate but I think what if it turns out that it can work I have a feeling the next question an engineer would ask is how much are we capture and get their works is there I don't know if there's metric yeah it's an entirely fair question um I can work with the engine it's basically just a calculation off but but the question Jordan is whether or not there's a threshold in order to get them yet how you want entire roof or is it person say the entire is it like is it Rel okay the entire roof well wait I'm not a gutter guy but you can't do that um we're only going to be able to take the stuff that's going to pitch in that direction you're not run it underground too or you could also do two smaller in my my house the front runs around the house and luckily we had an old um septic tank that we fill with gravel and we use that as a dryw works perfectly sounds beautiful um so you know it is I think it's more of a question of what's going to be what the ground can handle if there is an issue with it it might be can only handle half the roof maybe it's a whole the whole group but I think that's a that's not me that's an engineer yeah I I think we can I think we can leave that to Jordan and and for that matter if if there isn't if it's not practically going to do it Jordan I'm just going to tell you it's just not work I think you can either do it or you can't or it doesn't so I don't think it's a matter half roof whole roof I think you can just do a whole roof you're saying if you're going to do any sensity as opposed to one either one big dryw two smaller ones but either it's going to perk or it's not right that's part of what you're saying yeah yeah and by the time you if you're doing it underground you're dropping it down and you just you just run you just run a PVC pipe everything can be torn up anyway yes okay so I think then the only toggle is really if if if the perk system works then we would have the pull off yeah um the the parking space parking space like the that we're talking about oh the whole thing okay yes Asos to the initial yeah I got so as proposed yep got everybody good with that yeah iOS except you're still bringing in to sevenet side yeah and the changes to the to the both both both side elevations we talked about the windows on both sides talked about dropping the side back we talked about getting the roof detail across to split the first the second floor tying it to the front porch um we talk about option a option b and then that affects the tree that's my motion uh we got to open the public can I sure um the rear first one story Edition when you're shipping that in you're maintaining the same square footage correct uh yes and then so where are you you guys what we what we'll probably do is take it out of p take the deck and that so the building coverage will stay the sand lock cover will slightly reduce but basically this will slide over will lose a sliver of lock coverage building coverage No it should be neutral it is neutral yeah it's five no building coverage would stay the same but then we would like it's GNA go over it yeah okay yeah yeah right you're underneath unlock and then the second part [Music] is the variance that you're seing we're going to go with the larger number 37.5% for driveway with the conditions Drive might be smaller but we'll SE them most and and if it if it doesn't work and you cut off that space then you're say saying the waiver variance for the W 22 straight out only have two spaces would yeah it doesn't H and it's option b then you get a waiver for that right being optimistic you pump out his cross space so so with the experience that we have of running through these things not only on our own houses but with other people you will benefit greatly if you're able to get some of your wood the backyard's going to be more usable you're going to wind up with less flooding conditions it is definitely to your benefit to wind up getting that the driveway is a perk that you get as well but I just want to just want to make sure you know from from our experience it'll definitely benefit your ability to use your and they're not that they're not that expensed prob front and back [Music] she seconding the motion who made the motion open to the public we had to open it in public I'm still I'm still blah blah blah is is there any member of the public that have any questions or comments with regard to the application let the record reflect now okay did you guys have anything further you know a dry drywall guys all right um okay so discussion um I don't I don't need to say anything anybody have anything further no I have nothing further I'm gonna try and make the motion I make the motion to approve the line application um the approval will be conditioned on the accuracy of the record and plan submit um the approval is going to be conviced as follow the sidey yard variant is being granted subject to the following conditions I'm going to tie in the um the garage there's going to be two new windows added um to the southerly elevation inside of the garage two new windows on the Northerly elevation the um the approval is for the effectively the main house right and the um porch the front porch to deviate from the side yard set back the rear addition is going to be bumped into to conform so it's going to be um there's no variance granted for that so you can do it at seven you can do it a touch more if you wanted to round it off whatever it is and then that is conditioned on the addition show me the elevation please quickly up I think it's two two windows on the second floor how did you describe the the strip I would call an eyebrow roof shed roof eyebrow roof shed roof which is going to be um uh constructed to aesthetically um you carry carry the front porch line back and break up the pel and compliant with the projection compliant with the projection limitation you can do it a little bit two feet past 5 point so it would go further than the two feet from Seven normally get two feet to work with whatever that number is you can work with 5.9 I mean you're not going to show it on your site yeah you're just going to show elevations got okay um okay so that gets through the the the sidey yard setback variance second piece of it is the uh front driveway variants and so that is um subject I'm proposing to approve it subject to um plan a exactly as designed and shown on the plans subject to um data being produced to the board's engineer showing that there is the um hear those subject to the construction subject to the feasibility of a dryw construction which would permit all roof leaders uh to drain into the new drywall in which event as as proposed in the event that's not feasible then the alternative Plan B would be a 22t wide driveway centered on the um garage as designed running straight to the street and then that would also come with a shade tree requirement to the left of the driveway where the parking was and the last bit is that in the event that the in the event that either of those scenarios works there's one last requirement for the shade tree we placed um on the Northerly side front you know where I was shown right there that's either option e either way that go you have the if if option two then waiver of the parking and waiver of the parking if option two it's one anything else when when we resubmit for resolution compliance I don't think we'll have the engineering s War done by them I'll just kind of put this on I'll write it in a way that shows is that option ultimately you'll need that before you get resolution CL um sorry so whenever whenever you would be voting on The Resolution next month's meeting whatever sometime I I don't have to have that resolved at that point but I'll show it as I I'll put some sort of language and graphic can you get an elevation by then yes y everything else and I'm just thinking that I'll I'll I'll write that and show somehow I'll indicate the tree and this portion yeah that'd be great do we need that for the resolution no for resolution compliance or adoption do the memorialization of the resolution no we don't you can you can we can draft it as we can draft the conditions and we can draft option one option two subject to information received from the applicant and your analysis as to feasibility yeah so so you don't need that for well we'll we'll resubmit anyway just so you guys can see it I think think difficulty is you're going to have to have once resolution between whatever conditions we have and you getting approvals you're going to have to have it done because they're not going to know which option they're going to be ining and it's going affect your drawings for your permits can the resolution be passed with that toggle resolution can be passed but yeah but hold on you're talking construction permits to build the house you need to show the driveway leave the driveway off to the side it's covered in the resolution you do it you do it later you can do it right no for for resolution I would want this to be resolved that you'd want the dry Wells you're not changing the size of theage yeah when so so when's resolution compliance happen in timing after we've adopted the resolution as quickly as they want and I guess they have a year to you have plenty of time then we got 45 days to publish I just worried about getting so overing and an engineer to look at it before June but's right you had a year you got a few month submitting for resolution on your guys I don't know how we made simple matter so far but I'll second the [Music] thoughts right I got a motion I got a second yes yes yes yes yes thank you congratulations please understand that we sincerely care not only about how this gets developed and how it looks but about all the neighbors and as we all drive around and we all enjoy how great town is at least some of it is because you spent this time so we thank you for spending with us very appreciat so late too um than you all right that's it for business small administrative items um one minutes from April 11th I over I have no changes to suggest so I will make a motion approve the minutes in the April 11th meeting second it yes yes yes yes yes um the resolution six anything unusual about that I I have I've looked at it just to if you guys any comment on it okay did you look at it did did we get I we did and we got what I was looking for okay okay good dou and I discussed prior then I will make motion to approve the resolution second yeah yes thank you yes yes yes I'm Gonna Stand s St from the vote public comment anyone public wish to make comments suggestions how much great how great we are I make motion toj everyone two down two down