to order um this meeting is called pursuant to the provision of the open public meeting law meeting March of March 11 2024 was included in a list meeting notice sent to the Hun County Democrat in cleer news on January 3224 posted on the vo board at B Hall on the state and has remained continuously posted fired in addition a copy of this notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the B cler talk please sure councilwoman Englehart here councilwoman faar here councilman Le here council president La here councilman Parker here Council vice president Rosetti here and mayor car here okay uh we are opening this meeting for a work session on the 2024 budget it's a hope that we'll have something to introduced for the March 25th meeting our deadline on introducing is April 8th for the state of New Jersey so CFO really did not want to cut it up close if we can help it because uh this is an a state audit year um so uh bill you gave us all and she this is when I emailed everyone on Saturday okay all right showing us all of the DAT for the water department department and Municipal Deb as well and um and I just also before I start calling on you to ask little questions um I'm just going to remind everybody we have about five minut million dollars in new debt coming this year uh that will hit our books next year um you know I keep urging everybody to consider getting this de under control uh it's not going away even though we paid down a lot last year this year we had the police building come online with the improvements of the first floor and next year we'll have the fire truck at1 and a half million dollar coming online we'll have sewer at road project on Main Street most likely coming online next year supposed to be bit out and um done in June hopefully and that is $2.9 million Bloomfield Avenue and oakwell Avenue is about another half a million combined uh the Department of Corrections reminded our architect that they expect the sallyport to be built at the police department building um within about two years so that is another I don't even know what three or 400,000 200 I have no idea what a sort cost um to be really honest with everybody but it's going to be well more than 100,000 and I'm just trying to think if I'm missing any the projects and that doesn't count whatever it is that um the DP and the EPA require us to do um that could create either operating or Capital expenditures for posos cleaning and storm water management and the RAR yard um so having said all of that I'm going to start with uh council president W sure hey Bill um so basically I I sort of to kind of encapsulate my kind of thoughts this year um so last year's budget was we got a little chatty and here for a while so we want to what what I would like to see the council do is is to you hit that that APR f um but we have had some uh email exchanges I have a ton of questions several of you have questions um but I basically where I think the from what I can sense the consensus is there's um total uh admittance that yeah we're going to keep paying down debt um at the same time we want to have a a tax uh increase that we we could deem reasonable um so the residents would say okay fair enough um so I guess my first question is when we did the tax increase last year and we were committed to paying down some debt um could you tell us sort of in you're to to look at it like on a spectrum like did we pay down debt last year in a very aggressive way an aggressive way a moderate way or a Minal how would you care agressive it was the most aggressive we've ever done so I would say yes it was very aggressive and it's actually more than we're doing this year how would you characterize issues still aggressive not not as uh Progressive as last year but it's and I think what I said was we're paying off basically all of the old Deb prior to 2019 with this um the budget as is so that everything else is is financed through temporary notes so that's a good thing you know it's there's nothing else on the okay disappoint okay um I I don't want to steal anybody up because I know I had been talking everybody everybody has some so I don't want to step on any toes here by stealing any Curiosities all right I guess that's it and if I come up with something I'll come back don't worry sure Council vice president Rosetti uh thank you mayor yes Bill I just um had a question regarding you know we we heard uh our our tax assessor last week um explain how a lot of our Revenue it sounded to me like our Revenue has gone up because property values have increased so automatically because of that people are paying more taxes already um also our our businesses have been doing better at you know in regards to how they were in in past years um so I'm just trying to figure out like where like why are 's not meeting right so how come we still need a really aggressive increase if we're already taking in more taxes this year compared to last year and years previous well there are other things in this this budget um that weren't you know I I really didn't foresee last year for instance the um extra money to try to finish off police station you know that's in there the two 20 50,000 is in the capital uh Improvement line item which um yeah 250 where last year it was only 185,000 um for the initial U renovation so this 250 plus the 250 grant that we received and 199,000 from the county will be able to pay the total Renovations for this phase and then we do have to think that the salary Sal Port so that's why we're still putting $100,000 into the capital Improvement fund so hopefully in the future we don't have to borrow this um you know the main thing is we have so many projects on ongoing right now and up and coming you know that we're trying to trying to pay what we can now so that we're not issuing so much debt this year and next year and in the future sure I I certainly understand that um I I guess though my other my other question is relating to um the proposed plans from last year compared to what's being proposed for this year so I I actually pulled it up from last year just to make sure I was can you remind me what what was the budget increase last year the percentage the budget increase or the budget tax rate the the percent that we passed is as increase last year the tax rate was up uh 20 in 23 was up 3.29% from 22 okay I just wanted to check because I saw an email that came through this weekend that said 2.29% and it was indeed 3.29% so when I look at these um you had sent us the chart last year with like two charts with with a 4.3 proposal 4.35 sorry and then there would be zero tax increases for the following several years versus a approximate 2% increase and each consecutive year would be about 2% again right so we we already maybe not me but as a council last year we passed 3.29 which was certainly not as aggressive of the original proposal but it was still more than the 2% so now we're though being presented with another potential 3.75% why are we not able to keep it more near that 2% increase each year not 3. it's 2.8% is the tax rate increase 2.8 is where we're at right now yeah there were there were some some substantial tax cuts Council vice president that uh councilman long councilman Parker and I um did in various line item budgets and it brought it cut about almost $50,000 out and itally down um I mentioned that at the work session last week that we had stuff out but they wasn't here to actually talk about what that change did percentage wise for the percent no thank you thank you mayor for clarifying that excellent okay so that's that's a better starting point for sure 2.8 versus 3.75 I'm glad to hear that but again so so we looked at last year right it was a three 3.29 and previously you know you had said if we did about 2% each year we would be on the same track as as a higher one last year so I mean is there any other wiggle room or is this just because we've had further unexpected expenses like you're kind of mentioning I I know you kind of talked about that already but um is there is it is it because we're being really still more aggressive with the debt or is there anything else that can be done to keep it more that gradual steady you know closer to a 2% situation each year so the other thing I did with this um draft of the budget that you have was I reduced the amount of fund balance that we were using to offset the taxes and that's due to the fact that we we completed the annual financial statement and our Surplus actually took $100,000 hit last year because we had one of the reasons is our revenues didn't come in where we were projecting such as the court revenues but one of the major ones was um delinquent taxes we had almost double the amount of delinquent taxes than we normally did and so therefore that hits your Surplus which is one of the reasons why we're really trying to build up your your Surplus or fund balance because if we didn't have that money there we would have had a deficit in operations which we would had to have raised in this year's budget so just imagine if we had to raise another $100,000 to make up for last year's losses and and that's all within the Caps so it would have been you know we would have been hurting so that's why my thought was I took $70,000 off of what we were using in the fund balance to try to make sure we don't use that much this year I don't want to use a third of what's in there in one year um so that's $70,000 is right there is is you know some of the money that's over one cent of the tax rate that that you know talking about because remember $58,000 to make one cent on the tax right right okay so one more quick question followup I I know everyone else has questions too but so these delinquent taxes that you're mentioning that is giving us this kind of uh unexpected deficit is that like what do we I guess for one thing what do we do about that to to make people pay their taxes but secondly like once that money comes in though won't things kind of even out again or will we still be kind of in a hole no so what happens is if they don't pay by November of this year they get sold in tax sale um but yeah it's it should even out at the end of this year assuming we don't have you know we're not in the same situation next year if it goes back to the regular 300 or so thousand that we had we should be in in good shape um one of the things I was able to do was increase the amount of anticipated revenue from interest in cost some taxes because we have so much delinquent we're going to be earning a lot more interest so I was able to increase that budget um Revenue appropriation up which helps lower our tax rate also I just add um as a reminder U to those of you who've been doing this for a couple of years and the new people just so they know under government tax law we even though it's pretty much guaranteed we're going to get paid back those taxes we cannot legally show it unless we have it in hand so we have to we can't you know let's say Mak it up a number let's say it's a half a million dollars in Lost revenue and we know we're going to get it at some point Bill cannot count it in this budget because we don't have it any and that's a big problem understood understood I'm just I'm I guess my hesitancy is raising the tax rate to I know we have to compensate for it somehow I totally understand but once we raise taxes they never go back down is my point so if we're in this bind temporarily but this tax increase is a permanent thing you know I just want us all to consider that but I'll let other people take a turn thank you so much Bill I appreciate your answers back to president thank you one thing to to note also that when someone doesn't pay their taxes it hits the burrow just the burrow the county and the schools get all their money so just so you know that that's why the the amount is so high as compared to right so what you're saying is when someone doesn't pay their taxes all the rest of us end up paying schools and the county on their behalf that's pretty much yes well keep going okay um yeah sure I I'll take the next round the question some of them are very specific to line items and others are more General um uh so Bill can you let let me uh continue on with what the mayor had just said she mentioned that you and Jeremy um had um put together um a a list of things that have been cut since the last time we saw and and um I'm really glad to see that you're here and I hope everybody's okay um uh but could you perhaps summarize the some of those single line items that you guys had the three of you had uh come to some compromises on for example I noticed that the planning board changed from 50 to 45,000 so I was wondering what that what that was you know what that got entailed other and any other examples right so through speaking with the the planing board chair they they said that we haven't spent the attorney's fees that much umine engineer engineer and yeah engineer I think and some the yeah um so we were able to reduce those line items because the majority of their bills get charged to the es so okay so that's one saving engineering and attorney fees what was some of the others that so we reduced we had shade trade bumped up to pay for um the purchase of trees but we're going to use our tree Bank that you guys mention last time asking anything that Chang from that point now no I'm sure it's been a busy week police budget the police budget yeah we reduced the police budget and um because of um their we got quotes for the trucks that he want the truck that he wants SUV so we're able to reduce it down to the amount of the the vehicle so actual quotes at this point as opposed to yes we have to pay for equipping the truck that we bought last year and then purchasing a new SUV and equipping that and that's you got codes for everything and that this covers all that [Music] um are those all three of those police cameras still in there I don't I don't know if I'm calling the right no you're talking about the no just can you tell me how that Chang yeah Sol it um so they were originally four cameras com we're not going to get four cameras we're going to we're going to put them in year over year right so that um we don't get hit with the budget this the idea is let's make sure that we have them in the right places and they're doing what we need them to do so so we're paying for one camer as opposed to and what um the other cameras pick up and are they um um are they can you describe like there specialy camera yeah so what it does is that let's just say there is a I think um what was cataly converters are really big deal here so you can actually see the person and the car that that was involved in that so now you can track down and you can you can yeah and and and it's and it cuts through the ch right as opposed to going through volumes and volumes of voluminous or whatever so down on the there's a network of yes so RAR has some and then we go and then I my last question I'm not sure if this is a bill question or not but last year we got um a presentation that was really great from the DPW that was kind of like an lrfp a long range facility plan of projects that they had anticipated and each Department's priori so let's say the water department had a different priority than the sewer department you know it typically reflected what their specialty was of course um but I was wondering I was just curious if that long range facility plan has been upd and if that was taken into consideration on this budget here yes so the DPW Water and Sewer all gave me their 20y year projected plans I could print it out but it's a long spreadsheet I can forward it to you if you want I would it was very helpful last year I really really know they didn't really put um an order of project it was more like you know they want to do this amount of Road in in 25 this you know that kind of thing that's fine I don't think their order I don't think their order has changed but when we do the Main Street the first half will come off the list but the Shields Avenue project I know it's still the number one project we just have no money to so is there any of those projects that are on that lrfp that are directly reflected in this budget the the the sewer and complete street from the circle to the tra traffic light is going to be done this year so it will hit the 2025 budget bfield Avenue and Williams street will also hit next year's budget um this year's budget we're hitting Dewey and I think Highland and they are they doing cork or no no the canel oakw well was done by Elizabeth down Gast as part of their project so those two are hitting but I did ask um Mike on Friday to sit with Josh and Ken to for the future this future D EPA list um that would include you know the P cleaning and storm water work and all that other stuff to create that list for us um we don't when that's hitting you know some of the EPA stuff they we have to do reports for them through our engineer but that's not Capital so um but I did ask him on Friday to like on that so anticipate another presentation at some point in the future yeah I would like that that was very helpful last year so please a good list it was a lot of work could that would be great that's all my questions turn Okay CC if necessary um Mr Parker yeah um just a couple of things so so I look at I look at um budgets especially what you're doing it's the same thing is working with the venture capitalist because that's what my experience is is working with venture capitalist um and and start a businesses so if you didn't put enough money in till um ask for enough up front and you run low on money then you got to go back and then there's several dynamics that happens one is that you may not get everything you want but they may not they may try to sell their interest to somebody else right um or there's an issue um if it's a bank there's issues with interest rates because interest rate changes so that's actually cating business more money um or um it acts as though it's a temporary thing and there's a balloon payment that has to happen so on the temporary rates is there such thing as a balloon payment they're going to come do so what happens when they come do so the temporary rates you're allowed for the first three years that you do temporary financing to basically be interest only so that means after the third year that's when you have to start paying interest uh principal right so that's kind of the balloon you know all of a sudden you're G have to pay $200,000 or so in principal right because right now you're like this and all of a sudden you're like this right so that's that that's my concern is that last year you absolutely were adamant about a 3.75% increase and that we would not have to worry about come to this today where we are today um if we had done that last year that's when went back and start looking at things so in essence what is happening is and if you look at the tax tax increases year over year over year which is which is kind of nauseating after a while right but the bottom line is because you're kicking the can down the road and you can't keep kicking the can down the road here's some of my concerns with that that's why I wanted to this is this is why we have a CFO I trust my CFO more than I trust anybody right because they're directing me on what to do and what not to do um if if we don't do the right thing what you're suggesting then we're back to your next you're doing the whole thing and then it's going to cost the taxpayers even more money because the way it works is if we had paid if we had done the 3.75 last year we wouldn't be here this year and now the 3.75 is going to be it's the 3.29 and adding on to whatever it was only a 79% to get to where we needed to be so it's just being P wi and found foolish first of all second and second of all it's a little bit this fiscal irresp responsible because we need to take a look at what we actually need so what I and I'm just trying to not trying to get you to agree with me but I just want to make sure I understand going down the right road so if I look at the next three years and say what is going to happen the next three years with tax increases and what does that do for the residents what does that look like and I'm not sure that we know the answer on that that what that looks like because that's what we should be actually thinking about is not what's happening right here today but what's going to happen in the next three years from now and that's you know and maybe that's just my business sense right because that's what that's what a company does that's what that's what the federal government does think about it when the the budget for for this year that they passed that budget was actually done two years ago people just don't understand that that was actually raised two years ago they everybody put the money in the top little B so the bottom line is it it's not following the logic right here's my other concerns my other concerns is things like the police station yes we have we're we we're going to do this whole but we don't know what we don't know so that police station something goes wrong in terms of a pipe or this or that or this was did like this and was spec like this because that's what we said we wanted and it turns out there's other things complications that's going to cost this money so again we don't know what we don't know and everybody in here most of us own a house or own something where we' Remodel and it said this and it ended up being this right um so I mean it just that's you just have to think of it that way the other part of things is even with the even with the police department there's cars there's equipment all of this stuff is outdated because again the hand was kicked down the road and no attention was paid on that and unfortunately this console is is is get the plat boo right because we need to do the right thing and correct the wrongs that have been done for so long that's the way I see it it's been so long and I'm thinking because you've been here for so long you've seen this go like part and then that's going this way and it's going this way and it's going this way you know what at the end of the day I think we need to give residents credit for what they know and no resident wants a tax increase but the reality is if the tax increase and you can prove where it's going and why it's needed people are more accepting of right and if you tell me that my taxes are not going to be raised XYZ for ever and ever I mean I've been in this in this um girl for well it's going eight years now and I was looking at all of my tax things every single SLE year it's been increased every single year except one year which was an election year I will leave that alone but the point of it is and that was probably not the right thing to do because then again we wouldn't have to ask for 3.75 um at that point in time but I just want us to do the right thing and I need I need you to tell us what the right thing is the other couple of things that I want to talk about one other thing is the sally port is something that we have to do it's not even negotiable we have to do it they are they're knocking on our door and saying when are you guys getting this done so we're again we're making up for things that we did not know at the time when we bought the police right now Department of is saying oh no you said you were going to do this we want it do so that's going to cost us money that's not necessarily a part of this year cor right it's not a part of the budget no right but it's but but but the thing of it is is those are the things that I'm looking at the other question would be on the wells so who does like if I know that we've got some issue with Wells and all is that for developers and do we have to put up money drug so does that work so we have a a $1.2 million Grant from the EPA um that uh our special engineer Rob moruchi is um putting together paperwork on we haven't gotten the money but it is there and it is ours um that well the estimates is going to cost about 1.8 million so we're we got a shortage on that that's the one that's supposed to go to the police building and um I think I've got paperwork to bring him tomorrow to sign for it and then the other well is over to be cited by the um on Route 12 at the that uh golf range place um that one the redeveloper for Liberty Village is um giving us um a maximum he's giving us he's actually giving us $130,000 to pay for the easement to pay for the engineering and to pay for the permitting at the DP put that well you know into position um as the the the next well after the one at the police department so but do we have to put any money towards this at all so the redeveloper for Liberty Village is giving us um as part of the negotiated deal whenever we approve it a quarter of a million dollar that is directly to go to a well right and then he's also giving us 1.75 million to be used for quote Municipal infrastructure of our choice and Bill once we know when that deal comes down and we're going to get that money in like 90 days after the planning board approves the project bill I asked him to make you know the recommendation to the council as to whether or not that money is used directly to pay for a project in cash or if it's to be used to help pay for notes or to pay off old debt he needs to give us the educated biggest bank for the buck on that money Okay cool so it could go to a well okay the other the last last question I had so just so that everybody realizes we still have the DPW contract to negotiate and so we don't know where that's going to land as well so there's all I'm saying is this there's all these misnomers That You Don't See you don't there's no one's actually talking to um and and if if Bill if we if we listen to what he said last year he would not be front of us right now and so what he's telling us to do is what we should be doing and stop trying to negotiate it down to figure out because taxpayers will get it they will get it as long as long as it is spelled out why it's needed what it's going for and what we're going to do and what it looks like two years from now three years from now etc etc then they get it right now they have this much information and we're trying to decide on a number or whatever the case may be when the guy is giving us a number and he was not wrong last year that's the only reason why we're back at the well all I'm saying is why aren't we listening to the person who we hired to give us to take us into the direction we need to go into that's all I'm asking thank you to uh answer one of your questions though if you look at the debt spreadsheet that I gave you the bottom bottom line where we're going to be in in the the next few years if you take that $592,000 number that bottom to the bottom left yes that's the debt service that we're paying this year in the out of the current fund budget if you add the 229,000 that is we're paying extra debt that brings you to 822 next year we're not going to have that 22 9 so that 735 number is we're going to be if you wanted to make it so it's flat that that was the always the the goal to make it a flat P so we'd have an extra 100,000 to try to space it out over the next few years to try to keep that flat that makes sense to I mean goes up every single year five nights to this year 7:35 next year 835 year after 985 in 2027 970 in 2028 it doesn't start going down until 2029 when it's still 961 and that's if we spend nothing else other than the projects that are currently approved so it doesn't count keos facility stuff to clean tases out of our drinking water or storm water improvements or anything else that are going to be required as by the state under rul well I think that I just want last comment the point of it is is that if we had done 3.75 and I know that's water under the bridge then we would have been full for for for a couple years now not only do we have to do the two the 3.29 but we have to add on the 2.80 on top of that and so even if it's lower than that it's still going be more than what we have exended 3.7 that's the point and that's why it's just Penny wild potion I just think a little bit to that's thanks um councilwoman Sor I guess more of a comment in the way that Tony's done if we're going to increase we need to find something to C and last year and I I heard a lot of it I wasn't on this Council so I wasn't part of it we can cut ourselves and if I'm I fully agree I don't like to have death right I generally my political view is you're always going to have debt and paying it off 692 right someone pays it down we get another $3 trillion at that it's always going to be that in government always always always it's never going to be zero unless they AR providing the services that they should be providing we want to be able to provide our residents with strong infrastructure and strong F but there's no reason why we can't cut some of the salary that we get it's salary it is not a a u um a free me okay that hits my taxes I considered salary there's tax account I'm just my tax account you too but it but you understand where I'm going right yeah uh yeah but it but it does it makes a difference and I think that most residents were surprised to hear that we get that so do we cut it all the we do do we cut it 25% do we cut the number of meetings we have of our professionals were costing $500 here here now bill and I spoke today and explained to me com out of an ESC account when we start reaching out to our professionals those values do go up you could low ball a planning board meeting at $1,200 or you could high ball it at600 depending on who's in the room so if we're going to go down this path can we please take a look at that I have no problem with with paying additional tax to get the debt down but I do have a problem when we can when we we w if we can hurt ourselves then we can at least make that discussion with the public like and I'm going to leave you out of this Mar you have six Democratic council members up here but I'm going to well but you have to you have to Telly I'm going to because I'm I'm gonna tell you they're nickel and dime to die and we have a lot of Working Class People in this town and so far as I know up here I'm one of the lucky on since I said to bill today I don't know anything about social services I'm a blessed person never had any for any of them my life but I know there are people in this community who have raised themselves up or they're trying to meet get to a minimum minimum and they would love to have this what you and I would laugh about Tommy and I'll be honest I laugh about that because I'm my right six figures they'd love to have that what is that 39.95 4935 4935 a year it would make a difference to them so even if we cut at 25% but we got to do something we got do something to put our you know put our own blood on light there our own WS well I'm sorry Adrian but I think that's I hear what you're saying but I think we don't know on this console who has what do like just I don't it out it's a line item you don't know the situation terms finan what people are going through on this so we shouldn't I just don't want to put that out there like that because you just don't know I hear what you're saying I'm not I'm not saying that that's wrong I'm just saying when you're saying cut other you have no idea what people situation that's all I just want to be sensitive I literally did not know Bill that there was any type of money involved in this I knew that there was a little Grant a little Grant or it was always said oh it's like a Sion I didn't realize that you got to get something for this this hard work sometimes well just fre that should be you to get money [Music] I hear you about that I just I just I just want to be very cautious because some people may have more than others does not mean that everybody has and I can appreciate that that's all I want let me let me just um I was always told that the stinky little the stinky little uh salary that um you get in local government is offset whatever expenses you have so if you go to Atlant City to Theo municipalities um we pay your entrance fee $65 and we'll pick up your hotel fee but we don't pay your gas um if you take off a day from work to do a day of meetings with the county we don't reimburse you for your day off from work now what we could do um is we could say we're not going to pay for government you know you want to go to l City it's on your own dime you get the salary for it pay for your own room you pay for your own entrance fee um but it's there I've always been told it's not there to make any money off of Government um you know when I ran people asked me if there was a salary I told them I thought it was like $800 so I was shocked that it was not $800 um and then when I tell people what do I get paid now they just go you're like doing this all the time and that's all you get but you don't run for money unless you run for Congress we need money so um but having said that you know like I said I would you know if you're going to take a course with Ruckers as an elect I mean I want to encourage you to do that stuff which is why that's in the budget as a line item but um you know it's it's there so that you don't hesitate to take that day off from work so that you don't hesitate to go to a Rucker seminar that we PID for but we don't pay you back to your gasoline um it's you know it's it's there you know because you're using um you know your personal fax machine at home or or you're using your personal printer at home like I do um you know paying for toner and paying for paper we don't give you toner and paper back my toner is 60 bucks a shot so um you know so that's what it's there for and um it's not supposed to be there to supplement anybody's income and maybe it does but it's there to to offset expenses which is you know um you know you can see it as unreasonable reasonable but you know you don't run for office to make money yeah but there are expenses that I know every person up here just when you photocopy the budget four times it is costing you money so um and if you're on the shade Tre commission or the pl you know the planning board you're photocopying a ton printing out a ton of documents the sh the environmental commission is a lot of documents so you know there's there's a lot to print and it's expensive so you know I hear what you're saying uh and I appreciate it um I know my second year in office I basically challenged the governing body Township to do the same and challenge them all to donate their salaries to the fire department and I got two people to donate part of their salaries and I doned my entire salary for a couple of years and there were still three that wouldn't or two wouldn't do that so you know and that's coming out of your personal pocket so but in the in the big pie chart how much is it it's little there's there's seven of us so figure it's like $35,000 the big p5,000 35 Plus 15,000 for additional the additional is going to the classes the municipalities 65 and there's nothing with everything in our budget everything that is in here is Mission critical we if we take one cent away from that it's disaster F right because that's at some point our budget is lean Ian I know so how do but but how do we go okay so here's the next how we communicate that in a dashboard I know everybody says we don't do it so the public can read and say oh our taxes went for this this is theow saying right but can we get there quickly so can I just couple things just been approach I just want to address you know I don't like waste I don't like so so this is all right what this is this is a balancing okay so from our position as council members we have to balance what is fiscally responsible and what is going to be prudent for the taxpayer and we know our town right take the one th000 Point View and then take the street view knock on your friends to you've got to process that that whole picture so we have to ask ourselves what is reasonable for our taxpayers uh of which we are what's going to be reasonable and what's responsible governing as far as getting this budget taken care of and and if we you know the services we got to provide those Services I mean and Bill himself I mean correct me if I'm wrong but You' got to balance all this stuff out too right so he's the numbers guy solely okay so I guess you know where I'm kind of going with this is like we've got a we've got we want to get a budget We're Not Gonna nobody's gonna play games okay yeah that's so if I were to this is completely hypothetical so don't pay it anyone don't hypothetically Bill if we took you're 2.8% and we said Bill what can you do with 2% let's just start there and again don't panic I just want the truth that's all I want what does that look like so 2% would mean $51,000 about 50 51 or so thousand whether you're cutting 51,000 out of the budget or anticipating additional revenue of 51,000 or something or I rather it not but use additional fund balance you know those those are your those are basically your options so the one of the conversations we had and and I'm going to let everybody know about this a figure that you like to use when we think about how much it's going to cost typical taxpayer is if we assess the value of a home for $100,000 what is that cost per average house so what are we looking at this year for that $100,000 cost to it to your to your $100,000 assist so per $100,000 of assess value as is it's $1,664 say that again $1,666 48 for $100,000 so it's a $29 increase over last year's $29 okay that $29 per quarter per month how what is that $29 over per $100,000 uh valuation so per year per 100,000 it's right 128 and that's the 2% right 36 that's the 2.8 2.8 right right down 2.8 right now3 for $400,000 if I did it to about 2% actually 1.95% um that would be a $202 9 so it saves the taxpayer save the taxpayer $400,000 house $36 but then what happens next year after 2.8 sign so what happens next we just back just real quickly back up before we talk about what happens next year our tax assessor I I don't have tax assessor friends I don't talk to tax assessors yeah Mr cin painted objectively what I would call kind of a Rosier picture than what I'm used to General so how much I mean I have two kind of questions and and I and I'm hoping that guys are understanding what I'm doing here I asked you at the beginning The Debt Service and I was like are we being very aggressive aggressive you characteriz as aggressive we're still going to be aggressive so if and I know councilwoman fararo was talking about cutting but instead of saying well let we're going to cut is there way to reduce the amount of debt payment so it's still we are still honoring because that's what we signed up for that that is exactly we signed up for we want to pay down our debt is there can we do it at a lower rate to then help kind of save a little bit as far as I'm talking about what people have to pay in taxes this com but if but Bill on the Cong of that if we cut paying the debt this year don't we have to make up for it next year what I'm go that's the question it's like an interest payment if you don't if you if rebor your interest is going to go up and you're actually paying more money I mean I'm G rip the Band-Aid off the arm kind of girl you know like I just want to I'd rather bleed heavily one year and stop bleeding and that's what I promoted last year was rip off the Band-Aid in fact I remember saying that to you the first night of passover on the phone rip off the bandaid J let's get over with um right pass over I'm outside the say so um you know I mean that's my focus is get it once and done the taxpayers and then we get the the Union hotel online with the pilot payment which is currently paying nothing and hopefully two years from then we start getting some Revenue in from you know not we're gonna get a lot of Capital Money In from Liberty Village but at some point they're going to start paying a a pilot that's um it's it's actually going to give us something um so I have a that's with all respect I'm going to work with what if under that bandid things are kind of healing up and it doesn't need to be torn up just needs a little bit of time then we can worry about because my my thinking is if next things are looking better for FL the bur I mean that's to me that's a fact that has been last two years are going up the proof is in up putting there but what if we so we can dial back I'm not saying we should go down to 2% I think that that we can find the balance here really trly and and this is what I wanted to say we got to balance all this out I still go back to I hear what you're saying but if you go back then you're going to end up paying more listen if we did the right thing last year we'd be at 3.75 now we're talking about another increase and it's going to cost taxpayers more money that pisses me off as a tax because we didn't do the right thing period because you want a consensus I don't really give a about consensus please forgive me public but the bottom line is this we've got to be fiscally responsible and do the right things to bring this town into the 21st century and it is not there is so many broken things here so many bro rip that Band-Aid off and go under that carpet because that's the one you really need to be talking about everything there is a problem there is a problem with everything touch and so my point is is look I understand where you're trying to get to I get it I definitely get it there's a balance between this and this but this guy last year told us what to do he told us what to do and he also told us that if we didn't do it this is what was going to happen and now we're here he's telling us what to do again and now everybody now you're going well well well we could do this and what things are going to get better that yes things will get better but that doesn't me mean it's going to get better by next year I just want to also like I appreciate I know I appreciate what you just said I really do and but the problem is that's if the world was static in Flemington burough that we just kept increasing our set values and we never did another project we have shields AV to do that's got a $3 million price tag we don't have you know we're even if we get take out alone we still have to we have to borrow that money we have the rest of Main Street from the traffic L to M Street to do the sewer and the road that's another $2 and5 million project the DPW has list of projects all over the place in well North Main Street hille Avenue Su I mean there's projects everywhere if we never had to do another one your statement about if we're healing underneath there what about that works but the fact of the matter is we've got millions millions millions millions of dollars wor of projects that must be done sooner rather than later and that doesn't count what the DP and the EPA is requiring us to do you know we've got that thing hanging over our heads with that potential issue with the EPA that could end up in you know deep due to if we don't follow what they want us to do so you know we're not unfortunately we're not our buroughs infrastructure is not static it is excessive ly dynamic because it has been ignored for way too long and you know the Shields Avenue projects got to get closed out and that whole Main Street sewer issues you know we're only doing half the other half's got to get done that sewer Lin's 100 years old and 30 years overdue from replacement 30 years plus we've got Poli building is still not going to be done um and the sally port so you know we can bring in tons of Revenue and you know you and I actually we had a talk last week about the Cannabis money and putting it directly to pay down debt every single year whatever that is but this number this number on the bottom line 592 this year $735,000 in in h principal in interest 835 the following year 985 r a million dollars in debt service in 2027 you know it's not going to go down it's GNA go up because we have more projects to do I'm going to turn to the council vice president yeah same same topic so so two quick things so first of all um my house right is over 100 years old right and it needs a lot of repairs too just like our burrow okay I'm in debt as well right so if I have to pay my debt off that means I can't do another project right right so what do I do I prioritize what's most important what can wait right so I think there's there's another part of this that we could explore we we prioritize projects say okay you know what maybe this does have to wait versus okay this we do have to do now right we can't always be thinking what might happen in the future right my my my pipes might burst my my roof might I don't have anything accounting for that and we can't force that on everyone in this burrow right to to be overly financially responsible right if they're meeting their minimum and we're doing what we have to do they might not have that we may like to make this financial decision that we want to be so aggressive with paying off debt but we're then making that decision for everyone else too and they might not be able to afford that so that's my number one thing the second thing though with the the 3.75 last year of like ripping off the bandaid I love that saying but anyway so we were only 0.46% off from what we passed to that ripoff the bandage so my question for Bill real quick is if we had done that 0.46 difference last year would we actually be facing a 0% tax increase like was predicted at this moment or would we still have an increase this year anyway because of these unexpected things these these delinquent taxes and all these other projects like are we ever actually going to see no increase in the future because there's so many unpredictable factors I think I think it would have been minimal there if if there was and it was mostly just because of the additional um money we had to spend on the police station you I wasn't projecting that last year that you know I was thinking we're only going to have to put about 100,000 in there so that was another 15 um but I yeah percentage wise I don't know what it would have been but it wouldn't have been 2.8 it would have been under one most likely but it would have there would have been some probably under one councilman [Music] this has been as fun as I expecting with i' I've completely forgotten all my questions at the moment and to be fair Liz did take one of M so um anybody else got any other questions that they they've been meaning to ask well we've gone through this at the moment anybody else ask I'm happy if you me to buy some go back on another round council president first uh oh geez so um yeah I mean I guess at the end of the day I just kind of the way I I I W to what's the word I'm looking for I want to synthesize because my thing is I look at it like you have this representation up here of these people in this town but this town is so socioeconomically diverse um you know we have all kinds of housing you have people who live in those beautiful homes worth well over 800k then we got people with h Homes so and everything in between and I kind of like to my personal philosophy is to kind of go what could like a middle class town here like that's how I kind of process it and I look at my own document and my own accounts and my own debts and I kind of say well what what could Jeremy do um but you got to assume that you're definitely doing better than the other residents and then some people are doing much better than you so I want to hit the middle of what is and I like to use the word reasonable like if we can sit up there and we can reasonably say yeah we can we can handle that 28 or want to just Notch it back slightly because the way I see it after year you're raising taxes into a region that gets a little comfortable and if you get into that 3% comfy then who's to say you're not getting more you know it's like the pot with the frog and the boiling water so I'm cautious I want to be reasonable as I will always say and I just want to factor in like the whole picture like think about that I'm and I'm speaking primarily to the council um and I just you know I guess at this point if nobody has I mean I'm just this is just me but if nobody else has a question can we maybe we can settle on something questions counc Council vice president do you have any more questions I'm good at the moment I'm good at the moment thank you a couple others um as we were all talking sorry okay um no it's that's fine fine um bill our um our fund Surplus what um I I know I asked you this last year so I'm going to quiz you on this because one of those three classes that I took last year two of them I learned I learned a lot last year about that really really appreciate it U being sent to this what is um what's your comfort level as far as percentage of our overall budget for for fun their plus 20 to 25% of your budget yeah which and now the class that I took explained that was very aggressive which is exactly how you introduced it that one of the first things you said in this in this work session was um the uh the paying them the debt this year was not as aggressive as last year budget was and you use the term aggressive and that 20 to 25% definitely compared to other municipalities and I'm not saying we should do you know worse or better than anyone else is is aggressive um whatever um basically what they said is ask your CFO what he's most comfortable with or she's most comfortable with and and that is your number so I knew you were gonna answer that can I just one thing about that our auditor swier um who audits I don't even know how many dozens and dozens and dozens and hundreds of towns of New Jersey will tell you the number is 25% um he will say that and you know I can take a town like scataway which has a budget any idea what their budget is 80 million 100 million they have 10 million in Surplus which is not 25% of their budget but they've got 10 million in Surplus so they're real comfortable that that's all they need with a little town like this you need more we have a much smaller budget so that 25% of Bob's Wisher and Bill H both recommend is probably because you can't it's not Surplus is not a one-sized it's all I when you've got a city like the scatter or a Newark or a or a Jersey City with with with a a very high seven figure eight figure budget they only need 25% I appreciate that and I would definitely wanted to throw that in no there's a good point so I would definitely want to um think about what other towns of similar size um you know do for their Surplus and what's that percentage because that is something to consider right now we're just talking about what you're comfortable with and like I said I knew the answer to that question because I asked last year so now I want to take another step because we I asked this question last year and I want to understand how what we last year affected this year what is our B current bonding capacity sorry to put you on the spot maybe I should have warned you about this So currently um we're at 2.25% of our and you're allowed to go to two 3.5 so in total we have um $3,363 th000 of bet between the utilities and the general budget so what because the utilities are self liquidating meaning that they can pay for their own expenses through their their uh fees that they charge that is considered a deduction and it's not showing up on your net which gets um calculated into this this number so our net debt number is 11,137 th000 so that's what the calculation is based on so if you're asking what our capacity is yes currently right now the capacity is 17 mil 257 so if you take off that um 11 million means we have the availability of 6.1 million of bonding and now now I'm gonna I'm sorry I'm not g to remember this is that more or less than last year at this time um and just so you know that DPW today gave me a list of projects that total 9.3 million for uh it's got Academy Street 1 million new well 1.5 I never saw that it you I got it yeah at 255 oh okay so that's similar to the list I was asking about earlier that's the new list that I asked for on Friday how much did it total up to 9 9.3 9.3 million and do they have estimated years when those these are due he didn't put years no just said future projects okay so I'm sorry what was the bonding capacity last year to this year so last year the percentage was 2.59% last year we only had 4.1 Capac million dollars in capacity so the the the very AGG the aggressive I'm not GNA say very aggressive we didn't cut that down the aggressive stance on debt service um did help us change our bonding capacity by two million this year correct but you I mean our government Workshop day a couple of weeks ago I can't remember who asked the question but you what you stated to us all was that because of how much debt we have in the three departments that you wanted to get it down to 1.2% correct because the problem is a lot of these projects are uh water and sewer and even though they're self liquidating and should be able to cover the C I don't know that in it if we did another $4 million out of water that the water would be able to cover it completely to be not to still be self liquidating and not comeing that you know but we did go down from 2.5 to 2.25 essentially last year from what you're telling me right correct so um and I guess the other things I'm just going to are more statements than than questions um I do find I do find adrianne's U uh proposal very intriguing I think uh in the end I think that each one of us you know I gosh I I served on planning board for 16 years and we don't get to end money so we're all volunteers so for me the the less $5,000 was a just it I tried to I tried to turn over into my own donations locally and really try to to be generous with businesses and and local um and local organizations um so that's my way of of of kind of rolling over that salary but if I do find it intriguing and I think if we needed to find some money I'd be open to the idea for sure um the um I think the idea of like I said you started off with the the word aggressive and I think I my issue last year and I think my same issue this year is the that you also open this year with the that we have a lot more delinquent taxes which tells me that people are still hurting out there and I'm a little concerned about that at least that's what my my that's how I react when I hear that um although we did have a pretty decent soft Landing I guess that we'll say um with the inflation concerns that I had last year have definitely subsided for me personally um from what I had expressed last year but I do think that you know we don't need a singular obsession with with debt and and I would like to see that uh that that process go um a little less aggressive uh you know like I said last year the the the league training that I had last year they were very blunt they said sell your children and I think what they meant by that was spread it out at least that's my interpretation of it and although I do really respect Tony's comments about hey you know pull off the Band-Aid you get it all done at once there's another factor that I don't think anybody has mentioned and that is and I and it was something a constituent said to me is that depending on when when and how you're you're raising taxes if you're hitting um uh everybody all at once you're you're kind of screwing the new people that are coming in and you know it's it's there's we you know there's a lot of new residents coming in and stuff so it's it's important I think to spread it out for a really really good example would be when I moved here 24 years ago they had just passed a referendum on the schools and we didn't have a say in that matter but we were obligated to help pay for that and I I want to make sure that we're respecting both the longtime residents as well as the new residents because I think everybody has is affected equally so although ripping off the Band-Aid pays everything off at once I think spreading the wealth will more be more fair and even um SOA only gets Bill his balanced bottom line for the next 20 years we have debt in our capitals the freeh holders do a pay as you go when they do a road they pay in cash and they have no debt we have 20e road projects here so future residents that move in in year five or seven or 19 are paying their 12th of that road project so you know all that all this taxing SP gets is that that latter line for Bill to be able to predict the capital payment and Debt Service better that's all we got 20 and 30 year payments in here from USDA don't think that people that were paying off all the debt and people who move in next year get free these they don't in year five we still have a million dollars in debt but Bill told me on the phone and I'll ask him to repeat it to everybody else that you know this healthy tax increase this year gets us paid down I don't remember what you said over five years and within five years our Surplus will be where it should be and this debt will be where Phil I can't remember what you told me but I know you said in five years marshia will be fill in the blank please I yeah so I projected the fund balance will be five years if we do that by 2027 we should have about 2 1.3 million which is getting to that close to that number the debt yeah the debt was they got you to that flatter line that you're looking for but I can't remember what we told I just don't want any to be thinking this is going to pay off $33 Million worth of debt by having a 2.8% tax increase oh would that be true that would be wonderful yeah you have to realize too that the money that we're paying off is money that's already spent so we're basically loaning money to ourselves until we can collect it either that or I have to go out and borrow i' rather not borrow it because that's where we're paying you know three and a half 4% interest and again we got $5 million worth of expenses including a fire truck at 1.6 million where you know the down payment was $50,000 because all the other money that was saved for it went to the police building out of budget at one and a half million with another half a million dollars worth of improvements to that building and now we're going about to spend another half a million on it and it's still not going to be finished um you know you know I mean the council makes decisions to spend this money you know I mean I said to my Campion you know we could cancel the entire Main Street Road Project and that will stop $2.9 million from being spent right off the bat we won't have any more debt 2.9 Million and we're GNA go to the bottom of the line with the dot because we're going to be canceling a project with them they're G to be furious it told us we cancel we're five years before we can borrow more money from them guaranteeing we don't require any more debt I thought my Champion would have a complete meltdown at me on the phone because he said I cannot plow that road one more winter it will completely dissolve so it's got to get done it's got to get done so well well that's what I mean by picking the can down the road the point of it is is our infrastructure is not great and Liz let me just say this I'm sorry Susan are you done oh yeah I was thank you um so Liz hear what you're saying I also live in an older home my house was built in 1856 and there's always always projects to be done so I I I believe me I get it and whether you live in a house that is um that is worth $300,000 or $800,000 makes no difference and this is why because you don't know what the debt ratio of those people that live there so you can't say that it's everything is relative just keep that in mind because it really it kind of annoys people who live in a home because they chose that and someone points and says well because they could probably afford that's not necessarily true I just want to make sure that everybody understands that um so the the the other thing is um you know by the way Su it wasn't me to sep the band was Mar that no you were talking yeah um so so to say that we only have $6 million in bonding capacity is pretty scary that's pretty scary because that means if something major happened here then what do we do I me what are we going to do and I listen whether it the number is 2 2 2.0 or 2.6 or 2.8 or whatever the case may be the bottom line is is that I keep hearing I keep hearing it over and over and over again and I don't know if everybody's listening I listen I want to have a kumay moment with with taxpayers too but I get pissed off at a tax as a taxpayer because Susan speaking of moving in my house taxes my taxes have been gone up every single year since I've been here every single year and it's gone up anywhere from two to 2.5 to 3.5 to whatever and so when somebody moves into a house and it doesn't matter if it's here in hunon county or if it was in Montgomery County or if it was in Washington DC the bottom line is when I buy a house I know I know the taxes are going to be an issue and now and and even a a realtor will say here's where you are right now but you should probably go look at the tax table because you don't know where you're going to be five years from now you want to make sure that everything is home so I get all of those arguments I really do I'm not I'm not pushing back on any of those arguments what I'm saying is is that my concern is if because every time somebody talks and you guys ask Bill a question Bill uncovers something else that be they only have $6 million $6.1 million in bonding capacity with the world that we live in we don't know if a natural disaster is going to happen don't think it's not going to happen just because I mean look at California look at those BL look at everything else um that that what are we going to do like what are we going to do if we run out of money that's what my concern is I understand the debt paying on the debt I just want the debt the debt and the bonding capacity to be equal so to speak it because if we don't have the money it goes back and again please forgive me I know I'm sounding like a broken record and I'm certainly not trying to be tataa at all I'm just saying from a business standpoint I've worked in startups and I've worked in venture capitalist and I've worked on Wall Street I am telling you I'm telling you that that is really really important that you need to be able to be able to go back to the well to get money when you need it because if you don't the interest and everything else is going to go up up and up and going back to what you're saying Jeremy yeah okay so if we get here then next year and if we just pay the interest rate is going to be higher so 3.75 and no remember where we land is still going to be more than the 3.75 that was recommended last year so as a taxpayer pisses me off and I'm sure it pisses everybody else taxpayer off that because everybody wants to kick a can down the road we are going to pay more taxes we're going to end up paying more year over-ear and that's that's the point so we get to a point where we can flatten out and not have to keep coming back down this road or do we just keep kiing the kab that's my point I'm done so I have a question based on that Tony I think you bring up a great point about our bonding capacity and big disasters unexpected things right so Bill can you shed some light like let's say there was a a hurricane or or you know some big big thing that we're not expecting I mean I I honestly don't know FEMA comes in and helps like what where does money come from what are our options in those situations you'll have to bond gives us the money Council Vice President we still have to bond it to get it back I mean that's the bottom line no matter what we do whether if we get we got a quarter of a million dollars outright from the state of New Jersey for the this new phase of the police building we still have to be able to bond it to take that money and spend that money so you know to do the project I mean we have to we have to do a bond issue which encumbers money so if we lost this building and all of our fire for example with a massive flood coming down the road from the Bushkill Creek and it's one 12 three four trucks so it's uh six million in trucks and this building we have to have the bond capacity to do the work even though the insurance company's goingon to pay us 80% and F is going to pay us 20% they're G to make us 100% whole we can't we can't put out a bid unless we can certify that we have the capacity to but even for so insurance though like I mean when I if my car got total right I wouldn't get a new car until my insurance payment came through so is it different on a municipal level I'm I'm genuinely curious isn't it that when FEMA because I know somebody who went through FEMA so I could just give you this just from just from a um just from a friend's experience so you apply for FEMA I mean let's just say it's you let's say it's one of us and some a hurricane comes in and damages is done to her house whatever the case may be I'm only going to get so much money from FEMA and I need to come up with the rest and the insurance company's not going to give it to so I think isn't it kind of like if if we've got to come up with a fond for FEA thema's only going to give us X Y and Z and we and we've got to match that with a fund is that but but we just I mean take hurricane Ida the burough just got I believe the last payment from FEMA I think we're finally done we just got couple months ago and hurricane I it was September of 2021 so it took three years to get whatever they were going to give us for um damages for food for people out of their homes for the fire company for using their equipment losing equipment um it took three years to get whatever back from them but U right the insurance company the insurance company and sea are not going to make us 100% whole no matter what but um Bill am I I mean that's correct though I like if it's we have $10 million worth of damage between four trucks in this building um we have to have the capacity to have to be yeah I mean the alternative is to do a special mergency which you have to you know make up in they probably wave it that you could pay it out over five years by10 billion over five years it's there's no way we could do that so yeah you would have to bond but we have insurance on our fire trucks right so like I mean some of that money would come back into us by the time we would then need to pay it if we did an emergency situation but we have a couple trucks that are like close to 20 years so we're gonna get minimal minimal I mean I don't know exactly what we're gonna get but I can tell you when I was a Freeholder we had a um we had a bridge historic trust bridge that was weighted like two ttimes in a five ton truck igned the sign went over the bridge and broke the bridge completely and ended up in the creek and that Bridge cost the taxpayers 300,000 to replace and the insurance company gave the county $50,000 because of its age so you know if we have a 20-year old fir Tru they're not going to give us 1.6 million to replace it they're going to give us oh sure same with my personal vehicle no yeah that that makes sense Mar I get EXA can I ask you something the pilot that Mara mentioned earlier does that live in the fund balance or does that liveed in the MRNA pilot yeah the pilot money that they when it comes in it will be a anticipated Revenue if you look in your Revenue side of your budget there is a pilot that we currently do have and that's for the Herman Cap building they want give us $20,000 a year here but that's that's where that will go as an anticipated Revenue I see 20,800 and to answer your question about the um the debt level um I yeah so just doing a projection based on what we're paying now and and um what we will be paying for the next few years we should be at um 1.8 um percent ratio in 2026 and what are we right right now we're at the 2.25 now that's assuming no debt you know obviously that's not going to happen well we know but we know for sure what's coming this year yeah we know it's like 5 million plus this year no and it's not no it's it's all guts it's the guts in yeah I mean Bluefield Avenue is gonna get done again by the developer William Street is basically cosmetic but it's a rough road and it's just getting a it's just getting a top coat on it but m r is real gust and that fire department truck is very sick so okay so anybody else have any other questions because then I gotta ask youall where you're at because Bill needs to know we need to introduce the bud so you know after all of this um got you got like Pony up a number by Tony I know you're a 28 you been very clear about that council president where you at well my hypothetical number two was just hthe that was not so I think we can uh we can meet in a pretty decent spot and I would say 2.8 little high why don't we go to 2.5 and I guess my question the bill is how does that look as far as what is the assessed the $100,000 assessed value of a household what's that look like compared to the 2.8 piece of paper that the res see to show we have to be able to show it to them in dashboard level boom right there when Pages what it's for because I'm between 2.6 and 2.8 you're between 26 and 2 just because we we we can't to ever kill a darling so that's a literary you5 okay now yet I'll be honest I I don't think I will ever have enough information to create a number out of my head I I don't think it's possible um as for the exact number it it's fine um like to be completely honest um you know I I can't possibly imagine you know how much did everybody's wage go up in the burrow over the past year what can people support I don't know this answer and I I have literally no idea um but yeah you know what 25 is fine with me 27 is fine with me either one is fine to be perfectly honest with you I appreciate that thank you C woman angle heart we at um I'm comfortable with 2.25 Council woman Let Me Cave up um I'm I'm willing to go higher than that if we can cut a couple line items out of the budget I'm just counting both there's four right now for somewhere between 25 and 28 Council vice president Rosetti uh yes M I would like to hear how what what Jeremy was asking how it affects the per 100 thousand of assess value the difference between say 25 26 27 what is the difference and then I can make a better decision you do that take a okay want to take a we'll take a five minute recess while Bill working in numbers all stretched here for okay we're back up and in all right so the question bill was the uh the differen is at two five six seven and eight uh and what that would look like for $100,000 so at 2.5% the tax rate would be 1.63 and that would mean a $25 89 additional for per [Music] 100,000 how much I'm saying 2589 at 2.6 the tax rate is 1.64 and it's $26.94 2.7 it's 1.65 and $27 .96 I also did a 2.75 there that that was 1.66 or $284 and the remind me the 2.8 what 2.8 is 2.8 um tax rate is 1.66 and it is $29 extra even 29 and um Bill not to make you do a ton more but just to be fair to all the numbers that were thrown out can you give us the 2.25% rate as well 125 yes okay the tax rate would be 1.61 and the cost for 100,000 is $23.30 with the $10 difference between councilwoman angle and also president $10 for $400,000 house and um okay so we now I need I need we need four votes can I have one one more question I'm so sorry so um this includes the same exact and all these numbers are with the same exact budget right we're not cutting anything we're not adding anything how does it affect how much debt we're paying say between 2.25 2.5 I mean I don't know if that's an easy number to get out here but um I'm just trying to make sure we have all the pieces of the puzzle here yeah I'm not changing how much debt we're paying off if that's what you're asking okay so so it would all pay off the same amount of debt so where where would the difference in the money come from then if we approve say a 2.25 versus a 2.8 well if you I mean without cutting the budget the only thing would be to anticipate additional revenues um so I you know I could go through the revenues and anticipate more Revenue somewhere you know because I'd rather not touch this the fund balance so if you wanted to for example this um tax hit we just had are you in are so you could anticipate that we're gonna get some of that money back this year someone's going to pay it off right so I could probably go in and anticipate more receipts from Del Linkin taxes that something what are you comfortable with you gotta be real honest here Bill what are you comfortable with so the whole thing the whole thing is the um you know it's we're trying to make up the money we lost last year so to do that I don't want to go to the maximum you're trying to make up the money we lost that you say we lost last year that's a difference this is a goal of your all right well trying to replenish the fund balance put that's that's bettering thank you um because you don't want to you know you don't want to go backwards with your fund balance we didn't lose money that's thank you so I mean it's um you I'm probably comfortable with doing another 50 60,000 more out of there um so which number is that on these all these magic numbers which one is it is it the 25 is it the 26 which one I mean the two five would work we could do a two five you would still be paying down the exact same amount of debt but you would show additional Revenue coming in for on the line item of uh uncollected tax debt correct that we're anticipating that some of these taxpayers are going to pay off what they owe us from last year yes is there anything else that we pushing that to like what about new businesses coming in you know the only thing would be is if we had already agreed by resolution for the plan am the contract with Liberty Village he could anticipate money coming in there if there was a signed contract or an ordinance on the books but with in absence of that he can't anticipate that it's got to be it can't be a business coming in with the problems of business it's got to be a contract or the state of New Jersey saying we're actually giving money like they did last year um but in absence of that he's got just deal the play but you're telling us you're comfortable with a 2.5 is that yes yeah be sure that I can 2.5 do you want to know why I'm comfortable it because we haven't we didn't take any of the debt p and you're not going into any Tak anything out of there so it's not those are the two things that we try to protect you know um so so you're just adding Revenue correct in an anticipation that we're going to collect uncollected debt yes from the taxes right but what happens to it's pretty much guaranteed because we sell them at tax sale the only reason why it wouldn't um happen is if nobody bid on the property which we do have that occasion like the gas station you know that was property since there was a contamination be bid on it whatever so what that do with I'm still worried about this B so you said we're only at 6.1 so what does that do to increase the body that's remains unchanged that's still what be at1 without I mean to to change that you'd have to make more of a Debt Pay you know additional yeah but that doesn't make any difference the point of it is on 6.1 million to deal with that's a very low number it is that's the reality it's a low number so just I hear what you're saying I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to debate that at all I'm just in my mind I'm just thinking the the the bonding to me is what really important we don't know what we don't know so by by next year at this time Bill will we be in a better place like we're in a better place now than we were were this time last year with the bonding capacity if with the current debt payment schedule so the we should be I mean we should have about 700,000 more if we went to two just out of curiosity if we went to 2.6 or 2.7 just asking a question does that have have a better impact on the bonding Capac No all he doing is manipulating the the the revenue side but but you know you know hopefully we're going to close this fuel of Liberty Village soon and then bill can decide how he wants to handle that influx okay of money and you know whether just sits there to help you know he pays down debt to increase our bond capacity or pays off debt to increase our bond Capac capacity it's a lot of money that we're getting from that redeveloper up front um so okay so we're we're at two5 is Trent you okay with two5 by councilman Parker or she say Council councilman Parker five yeah bill says that it's it's I'll Trust bill bill says yes council president abolutely councilwoman zaro yes councilwoman angelart I'm I've got an issue with one line item on the budget but if that line item was not there I would be fine with 2.5 councilwoman Vice presidentti I'm good with 2.5 okay we're gonna introduce a 2.5 on March 25th thank you so much bill for your if you have any other questions feel free contact me well hopefully not okay we are now into uh back into the regular agenda thank everybody um for working through this we're contacting bill um I know I know uh and a lot of you did a lot of work council's president for making phone calls get people thinking about the full thing and however many trees we all killed with budget documents so um all right I'm going to skip my mayor's report for uh because I'm anticipating a lengthy conversation in executive session so I'm skipping my mayor's report um though I do have one issue that was brought to me today by the county there is a regional uh whatever region we're in it's a regional meeting regarding having Studios film in your community yeah and it's there's a all day thing in Morris County on the 23rd of April but I was told by the county that if we want to part if we want movie Crews here in town Studios somebody from the governing body must be at this meeting so I wanted to see if anybody was ordinances for film Crews I don't think we've ever got we for me's going gonna April 23d all right uh Council M report council president long yeah I'm gonna trim out some stuff um so the o report I have tonight uh really this is really important so there've been power outage issues in the region as you probably know particularly in a burough recent months our OEM has expressed frustration with the restore time on some of these Avenues but one thing residents should be aware of is that they must immediately call outages they must report the outages to jcpnl right away they can do that on the website but of course don't power they can make a phone call it's 18885444877 and if if you forget that it's 188 lights with two s's uh most importantly if their average exceeds 8 hours residents need to contact the office of emergency management it's key uh or reach out the bur officials um so that we can begin to advocate for that restoration Facebook and other social media Outlets are not the places that go report an outage this must be done via the power company uh so there the oem's going to have some information they're putting out there for um emergency planning and stuff like that but real quick March is the month that marks the changes in the structure of the Year winter becomes Spring Daylight Saving Times begin so March should also you should be thinking about things like your smoke detectors it's the most important thing um but there'll be more stuff and I know that um councilman Parker got this information for a newsletter potential um it's got everything from practice drills to go bags we'll have more to say about that uh Fire Department meeting is tomorrow night just a reminder to uh everybody that the fire department heading with flower sale is March 28 29 and 30th that's a Thursday Friday and a Saturday Thursday and Friday is from 10: to 5: and that's Saturday is from 10 to 3 uh quick rundown of response calls last month real quick 20 total incidents uh here are some not all types of incidents the fire Deb uh the fire department respired responded I'm sorry to one building fire one motor vehicle accident with injuries one person removed from a stalled elevator two gas leaks uh three electrical shorts one authorized burning one false alarm slal call and one alarm malfunction finally I just wanted to extend my heartfelt condolences to Kathy Knight and her family on the loss of her husband Don Knight Don was our neighbor across the street when the Longs moved into the burrow we were greeted immediately by the knights with a warm welcome letter and some baked treats left on the doorstep Don was a kind man who completely embodied the gentle appe to love thy neighbor and Council vice president resti just a quick reminder there's a shade tree meeting uh this Wednesday 7M that's it for now thank you womanle heart um very quickly we had a really successful open house uh at the Museum on Saturday afternoon so it was great because it was rainy day and people came in and and pour the house we had um a large group that was a New Jersey a walk a hunting group that stopped in they do this activ area here and we had a first date they met as a yeah blind their first day at the M house so I thought that was thing um so we all kind we encourage them to go to other places around town um hopefully it works out um and I do want to just picky back on Jeremy's we did change our the day Savings Time change this weekend so no no no that's that's not my comment just check your check your fire fire and you know your and your smoke your smoke detectors and your CO detectors please is a friendly reminder thank you coun just a quick reminder that this Saturday 10 a.m. till 2 Library is having a maker day children and adults are welcome spinning weaving fibercraft demonstrations and I will be there so I look forward to seeing some of our residents and their kids at this event this satday great ages um when you say kids what are the ages oh the way that it's been presented to me I mean obviously not like Gods but grade school ages on no yeah Elementary yeah and older like they're they're literally going to do like leaving enourage to like get involved let me let me just add that the county libraries that day uh until same okay um no they're giving out first come first serve they're giving out free glasses to watch the solar eclipse on April 8 oh really so will you be I will be in Houston watching um with my glasses from the library um so yeah free glasses first come first serve at uh off branches in the county library April I will joining the cast meeting VI Zoom from Houston um so C Le um let's see animal control unfortunately we doubled in our reports this month from two to four there's any animals listening please get it together heads is be having a stream clean up on April 20th all over the place there are sites everywhere I'm going to be a team leader for site 7 at the old Agway properties you can sign up on their websites there's another one at too that too there's they're everywhere apparently um I am also helping organize a bioblitz that's hopefully going to uh happen in I believe July so if any T anybody knows any taxonomic experts good at identifying bugs or birds or Moss or any kind of living beings whatsoever uh please reach out to me um and the next HP meeting is at B Hall at 7.m on March 20th that's it thank you um really really quick so I'm you know everybody you know I'm working with the police department and um we're doing some major major changes so I will ask that anyone um you know I'll direct this to FCP as well is that um don't send any emails specifically to a police officer because we're putting structure in and I want people to um to go through the structure because I just think that's very important and that's something we're trying to work with um more to come on that later because we're actually going to be doing some promotions so that'll come later um the newsletter is going to happen although I didn't get things from a lot of people but I'm just going to go once you have oh my teasing for right this was going to be the February but I didn't get I didn't get the information in time so it's going to be for March you need anything else for no I I think we're gonna I think I'm gonna reinvent some things that that didn't happen in December just because um I was Ill um so that is I'm gonna try to get it out next week so um just to let you guys know that it is going to happen um Chris I do need something from you I'm not going calling you out or anything Rel and then the other thing is that we had our first meeting with the um Arts committee um I'm going to be cheering which if I got stuck into um but I got fully into it but anyway it's going to be exciting I'm really looking forward to this I think the team that is um that um the mayor appointed is pretty a dynamic team I actually I think we're all going to do some wonderful SPO together um and and that's it that's it thank you okay uh we're now at public comment uh period number one so if you have any comments please limit them to three minutes uh I will beue to wrap it up there will be public period number two at the end of meeting so please your name and your address for you have anything okay three minutes Mr Tony 45 North Main Street uh I'm glad to be here during this budgetary fiscal I guess go around um I've been a resident of clington for a long time not to mention a number of years I've seen things come and go and then I also I also I guess presently see a lot of things that are going stale by stale I mean like movement I could talk here for 20 minutes based on what I heard and what I know uh but basically and I have the book here again about the merging situation between us possibly maybe sometime in the future Us in bar in Township and I'm almost delighted to know that AI is now onse I mentioned to Mr Parker if AI took a look at a merger situation between the burrow in our Township what would it come up with you know we would take the politics out of it it would take a lot of them I guess the mess that Princeton and Princeton burrow had to go through just to disentangle themselves from the fact that you know maybe uh being together is better um other than that I would seriously think that this Council should look at that uh I know that in R Township there in the lest real estate craze there were about a dozen properties that I could not believe what they sold for and because of the gigantic and I mean very sizable increase in the price of these homes you know since I you know resided here those ratables for those houses had to have really doubled doubled and that's RAR in Township uh as far as everybody here in the room we know that cash is came and that is servitude and right now with the delinquencies you're finding out that people just can't make ends me because there's a lot to go into that fiscal formula when you're resident taxpayer father mother you know I to go to school etc etc I play golf you know and I I kind of slacken off the last few years and the reason is is the cost just the cost I looked online it was something about golf hats $70 for a golf hat $70 for a golf hat around the golf at Haron Glenn I'm not even going to quote when I paid you know the first time I walked on a golf course versus around today plus you know a c you know yeah the fiscal reality is is overwhelming so think about a merger think about the fact that when you guys mentioned oh you know Firehouse went under all this well maybe you're IR in Township's Firehouse might not got hit by that tornado you know there they are they're here no reason to panic you know anybody see Oppenheimer I won my bet on that for the best picture you have about a minute left yeah okay okay it'll be a good minute okay but anyway I watched that and one point of the movie The physicist and all questioning whether when the bomb went off whether the atmosphere will be set on fire they were all wonder and then they went to the source the AI they went to Einstein and Einstein took a good look at it and he said listen I can't be sure but no not going to happen they set off the bound anyway thank you anybody else from the public very quick gonna make you be made a constituent voter retus FCP executive director this is our new um for the businesses seasonal sign AG so that everybody has something that's sort of noticeably celebratory of our place which is your hometown for the holidays so we did one for um the winter holidays and Christmas and everybody really liked having a sign they did they put it in front of their building Ina Mexico they put it inside their window and decorated around it so we just have a new one coming out we also I'm leaving these here for you please PE them this is for our new event called find your peeps like Peeps and egg hunt on Main Street so this is a main street only event we really like to do events that benefit all three of our business areas but Main Street has been through this is on Saturday March 30th these are for you um and if you want to take one to S bloing house you can so it's Saturday March 30th 1 p.m. to 3 P.M if you have to pre-register so we can really give the kids a good time and it's 200 sorry but it's a we we have 12 businesses signed up and about 120 kids so far great so we'll have 200 kids it's between one and three so it's a short impactful you know mob of families and kids on main stream and that's what we want to see and then we take pictures of it and we do it every year and we try all the things to get people and families to come back date on that that is Saturday Saturday March 30th I'm leaving these here for you guys please take them um we we have so many events and so many businesses celebrating anniversaries and opening so in at the end of March we have a plant te store which is plants and antiques and it's fabulous it's uh where the where the absolutely passive and not retail deck shop was the yes so right in that corner it's it's Chris and Cody who everybody knows from the stangle farmers market they've waited for four years to find the right shop to open and they're opening and I think they're opening is like March 22nd they'll also have outdoor space and it's great and um fact where Factory fuel was will also be reopening as a coffee shop called Alchemy with a K and we've already planned a Karma a stangle Karma Festival all good and uh karma is a duty to your community so we're having yoga and the coun the councilman to my left to the counc president's left already curs tonight because I'm so tempted to say k is a whatever is the she I didn't I used a very strong word no it's Taylor twi's boyfriend okay but that's she changed the line of her sock to say karma is the the guy from the Chiefs oh yeah all right but anyway that's not what I'm here so we have great events and we did submit our um application to the New Jersey historical commission to be part of the africanamerican history Trail and we wrote about the Jacob Francis uh plaque that we already have and how when we were doing the event we learned that all of the buildings you know that were different uh in different form prior to our standing there today had um impacted uh their lives and were part of their lives and it's a much more interesting story to tell that while they were having nine children and living in Flemington they were fully active and engaged in the community and you know it would make for another really good interpretive handle so we've applied and we'll see what happens but I felt very confident that we had a good application and a really good story great thank you for getting those signs down Robin yeah okay 21 signs have come down there's nine more to go so there were a total of 30 in the second phase 13 parking 30 w finding I feel like it's a bit of fresh air not having those my garden what was removed today it's right by and no one will say where is it and I really want to thank everybody here and I really want to thank DPW because um I think they said yes not really realizing what an incredible arduous task it was they are heavy they are awkward you know they they've worked really hard to remove them and store them for us and we will yes are we never complain we will get to the second phase quickly we did meet meet with the county to talk about their interest in the sign and naming and um being helpful in the project so so when are the other signs coming down everything I as soon as they worked all day today in this in this windy weather so I would I don't really know what my exactly yeah but I think it's soon great okay thank you seeing none we'll have another one at the end of this meeting uh we have approval of minutes everybody get a chance to look at them can I have a motion to approve that regular session move second sorry second uh all in favor any extension regular session January 22nd 2024 can I have a motion please move second all in favor iions executive session January 22nd 2024 move second second roll call please no I'm sorry all in favor I any exensions okay uh under consent agenda we have resolution 202 2449 resolution approving taxi license for 2024 and resolution 2450 resolution authorizing the appointment of Judge Charles Caro as a r Township share municipal court judge for a three-year term um they R Township asked us in the other municipalities share Court to confer with their selection of the judge we do not really get a choice on that uh but we continue to save about $225,000 on that shared service I have a motion to approve the consent agenda long moves is there a second angle second roll call please councilwoman anglehart yes councilwoman kasara yes councilman Le yes council president long yes councilman Parker yes and Council vice president first yes thank you there's no public hearings tonight regular agenda we have resolution 24- 51 resolution by the mayor and Council the Flemington recognizing women's history mon um who's reading that would you choose to read that for us I will be happy to and I'm gonna suggest that we it's two pages long so I'm just going to read it off but I think we should update it to high like some more blomington SE people next year as well so I'd like to volunteer to do that uh resolution 202 2451 resolution by the mayor C burough Flemington recognizing women's History Month whereas National Women's History Month recognizes and spreads awareness of of the importance of women in the history of the United States and whereas throughout the history of the United States whether in the home in the workplace in schools in the courts or during wartime women have fought for themselves their families and all people of the United States and whereas even from the early days of the history of the United States Abigail Adam urged her husband to quote remember the ladies unquote when Representatives met for the sentimental Congress in 1776 and whereas women were particularly important in the establishment of early charitable philanthropic and cultural institutions in the United States and whereas women led the efforts to secure suffrage and equal opportunities for women and also served in the Abolitionist Movement mement the the Emancipation movement labor move movements civil rights movements and other causes to create a more fair and just Society for all and whereas suffrages suffragists wrote marched were arrested and ultimately succeeded in achieving and won the ratification of the 19th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which provides the quote right of the citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or bridged by the United States or by any state on the account of sex unquote and to the enactment of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 which extended the protection of the right to vote to women of color and language minorities and whereas women have been and continue to be leaders in the Forefront of social change efforts business science government math art literature music film Athletics and other fields and women now represent approximately half of the workforce in the United States and women and whereas women once were routinely barred from attending medical schools in the United States but are now enrolling in medical schools in the United States at higher numbers than them and whereas women previously were turned away from law school but now represent approximately half the Lost students of the in the United States and whereas since the American Revolution women have been vital to the mission of the Armed Forces with more than 200,000 women serving on active duty and two million women veterans representing each um representing every branch of service and whereas more than 10 thou 10 million women own businesses in the United States and whereas Janette rankon of Montana was the first elected to the House of Representatives in 1916 and Hade Wyatt carway of Arkansas was the first woman elected to the United States senate senate in 1932 and whereas marget Margaret Chase Smith of Maine was the first woman to serve in the in both houses of Congress and whereas in 20123 a record total of 154 women are now are are serving in Congress including 129 women in the House of Representatives and 25 women in the Senate and whereas Jimmy President Jimmy Carter recognized March 2nd through March 88th as at 1980 as quote National Women's history week unquote and whereas in 1987 a bipartisan group of senators introduced the first joint resolution to pass Congress designating women's History Month and whereas in 1987 President Ronald Reagan issued a presidential Proclamation proclaiming March 1987 as women women's history month and whereas in 2020 Congress passed the Smithsonian American women's History Museum act to establish the NA national women's History Museum on or near the National Mall in Washington DC and whereas despite the advancements of women in United States much remains to be done to ensure that women realize their full potential as equal members of society in the United States now therefore be it resolved by the mayor of the Council of the buau of Flemington um one we designate March 2024 as National Women's history month and two we recognize the celebration of national women's History Month as a time to reflect on many notable contributions that women have made to the United States and three urges the people of the United States to observe National Women's History Month with appropriate programs and activities can I have a motion please second yes yes Council love yes council president yes councilman Parker yes counc VI yes great thank you thank you for reading that uh next we've got the ordinance uh 20 242 in ordinance amending chapter 35 entitled taxation of code to the Bur of lington to impose a municipal auy tax excuse me of 3% on hotels motels and other trans and accommodations assume include b&bs and well I don't think I The Way It Was Written a airbnbs and and verbos and all those things are captured under that typically there's a one okay um so uh this introduces this ordinance which um the state of New Jersey Allowed by law councilwoman pharo a year ago during tax budgen sees and brought this to the council's attention and I told her that when we get closer to opening up the hotel we'll make sure it gets done in plenty of time now is the time yes so it'll be it'll be in place probably a year before they open um so and this gets passed directly on to the um Hotel users the hotel collects it and then sends it to us um can I have a motion to introduce s is there a second long will second public hearing will be oh I'm sorry roll call please counc yes councilwoman faar yes councilman L yes council president long yes councilman Parker yes and Council vice president yes uh the public hearing will be on uh March April or March I got to get in the paper next week so we're on a week it's enough it's not enough time to get in for the March 25th meeting oh 's a courier okay March 25th March 25th public hearing uh thank you all right uh public comment we don't work public comment number two is there anybody from the public see none uh payment of bills authorizing payment of bills down 21,680 Mo please second call please yesc yes councilman Le yes council president yesc Parker yes Council vice president yes great we'll take um a five six minute break uh we have executive session the executive session covers contract negotiations vill contract negotiations police building contract negotiations please build easement motion second all in favor you call to fin you bet you I did open S back in Open session we have uh no business to do in public so can I have a motion to adjourn long we move is there a second par second uh favor thank you everybody in two weeks good night prob