the cord PL all right pleas [Music] as I think someone turned off the sound over on your side [Music] yeah yes now you're on can you click on we'll get yeah that's muted volume's off okay that could have sorry that might have been me but I sorry I didn't hear any of that before but now I hear you now so everything I'm good now thank you sorry this makes is called ass to the provisions of the open public meeting both adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been being provided by way of publication in hunting and County Democrat and C news newspapers on on or about February 1st 2024 and January 30th 2024 in addition notice of the meeting was posted at the buau of Clemington Municipal Building located at 1 Park Avenue and any handicap enes there too posted on the municipal website provided to the municipal CL and distribute to all persons if any requesting copies of the same this meeting is being recorded with both audio on video and may be rebroadcast this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the Quorum appropriate to a Judicial he must be maintained at all times May here Mr Hill here Mr tashna here Mr cook here miss Whitman here Mr Sino here miss swingle m de Mario here is recused um excuse uh Mr show here yes we're here um Mr Hill uh Mr Ian Hill excuse me for Mr clo here Mr Troutman here and I don't see Miss MCN he said she's coming yes she was calling she was she is she's getting on we fix no I have a theory hold on TR having somebody talk Jim say something Jam Hill I can say something I'm [Music] here the the speaker on the TV that computer was on so was coming through there as well as through the sound system what you learn this is what you've learned four years into Zoom teaching yes um all right so item one on the agenda is public comments this is for items not currently on the agenda anybody in the public either in person online any comments wish to raise tonight being n we'll move on to item two M comments uh the only thing I just wanted to let the planning board know is that um along with the item number seven the review of the Liberty Village phase one Redevelopment plan uh uh Beth has been staring the task of doing the consistency review so she was working on that well and that's it thank you okay um I free Council comments please uh I have no comments and I think going forward uh Council comments should probably be removed um the idea is that I am a member of the board as opposed to a liaison and as a member of the board I'm contributor and I'm a participant but my role is more focused on going back to the other elected officials and Advising them of what here but I would highly encourage any ofone to attend our meeting pleas they robust they fun and they produ okay can I so if that's so we attend a meeting can we make a report to the rest of the board since it's sort hard to be at both meetings all the time if you want want to yes but um and having spoken with other members of the council and the council president as well as the mayor um it's making sure that as a council person I'm reporting to them what's going on in here as opposed to the council reporting to the planning board wow that's sort of not a very sharing but well I share I mean sometimes how many times did well it's always good to know when things that may affect the planning board or Senate council so you're not surprised when you come to a beting and usually I mean they're not long to say Council spoke about X and you're going to be seeing this application I I mean it's it's just transparency that's all guys but I I can certainly Doom into a meeting and make a report to the rest I was just gonna I was just going to raise the concern that having we've always had the council member say something in terms of um just what legislatively is considered by Council um which is distinct from the role of what the mayor does um in terms of terms of meeting and I I if the council member doesn't want to give a report I mean that's certainly her prerogative but it's just I'm just a little disappointed it's fine and Mr point if anybody does want to make report just give us a heads up so that we can thank you all right HBC comments item four Dennis you have anything forward from see today I we didn't have a meeting uh since the last planning board meeting but I will just remind everyone that we are having the historic House Tour on Saturday June 1st from 11: to 5: definitely looking for volunteers so if anyone's interested let me know or if you want to recommend someone else to volunteer let me know thanks all right um just before we move to item five um can I just say something came in the member of the public if we'll do it formally later item 11 but item 11 will not be being heard today today at the request of the applicant that's been table oh sorry public hearing for Central Station is not being No not tonight I wanted to car yeah well if we're we're going to carry without further notice say when going be carried to right um so you know everyone can know but you can just readjust it a little bit and do that request yeah in light of the board's agenda this evening I'm sorry Steve grin on of the applicant um it appears that you might have some discussion tonight that will be a little bit lengthy so um request that our public hearing be continued to the first April meeting and um that that be carried without further notes it's not the first of it you mean the first meeting in April April so the April 9th Mee will be carried to them with no further required ail record plan Beth mcis is here on zoom and all right on with the item five professional reports any reports um um nothing formally I will just say that I have received some additional correspondence from Council handling of the C billboard um nothing huge to report except that it is moving forward right we don't have hopefully I will have some more definitive updates the next week right okay um engineer yeah have report I do not okay thank you Mr trapman nothing for me nothing for you today excellent um Beth I would imagine are you um happy to have your report being in the in item seven the Liberty Village yes that's uh that's accurate that's the the item I'd like to address tonight when the time comes you and we are um keep um okay thank you um item six is the approval of minutes from the February 27th 2024 regular Meeting those were distributed to all anybody have any comments on those no I to appr Mr yes mayor yes yes yes yes Mr H Mr yeah Jim are you there he not moving he is moving talking to me I'm I'm getting reverberation so didn't just yell at me you have a vote for the minutes from uh February 27 2024 do you have a vote for the I yeah I thought yes thank you Mr D yes Miss whitesman yes Mr s yes thank you okay thank you right moving on to item seven ordinance 241 review this is the Liberty Village phase one Redevelopment plan um M did we want to do completeness before heading into this I am aware I am aware of that but the reason I've left as it is is we have Beth mcmanis until 8:00 only so I didn't want to go beyond her clock ending on our discussion that she needs to be involved in the Liberty Village phase one I think this will be five minutes of that um I think Mr Hill and I have already spoken and I indicated to M McManus something so I really think this would only take a few minutes okay then we'll take it on that for five minutes I W talk that then we'll need to have a [Music] motion Mr cook yes Mr s yes mayor Carol yes councilwoman fararo yes Mr Campion yes yes dashna yes Miss whitesman yes all right so then we will move to the previously uh listed item 10 completeness hun The Tea House LLC 2021 Lot 37 Lot 10 171 Main Street hi Steve grinberg on behalf of the applicant if you recall I appeared before the board at the last meeting and we deferred completeness to this evening in order for us to address some additional items and prare those correspondence and the board um allowed us to notice at our own risk for the March uh 26 meeting and uh Mr clerico issued updated correspondence I had a brief conversation with Mr Hill ahead of time and provided some information to miss mcmanis this afternoon I think we're okay and correct me if I'm wrong with the way that was being granted for completeness purposes only and that the application be deemed complete um our Engineers has been in contact with Mr clerico with respect to a me and Bounds for the right away which I think is the only survey issue that was an issue that they're resolving um so that's why I thought this only take 12 minutes if everybody is okay with that as you grant the waivers I set for and Mr clerico correspondence compl this there there are five checklist items that are related to the survey in the net lot area versus root area that are technically incomplete unless the board decides to Grant a temporary waiver from them at point you know and there there's other waivers you know this is this was the only way for this question um but Bob didn't have a problem he he would support the decision by theard temporary W and allow there were quite a lot of wers try to get away from so many waivers and moving things forward because jumped gun saying only about these five items um but as far as these five items go yeah I can indicate to you that most of those items are are dealing with the needs and Bounds for the right away and it's a technical um whether webe Supply deeds and eement and restrictions well we supplied it but there was an indication that's incomplete because the meets and Bounds isn't on the plans so those issues can be resolved as to as to lightning um we are only open from we are only served from 11: to 300 p.m. so I had address that with M mcmanis um with respect to the signage we're going to use the existing s so I I really think that excuse me Ken I cannot hear Mr groomer when I was a young boy um So based upon what I think we've submitted um I think the board can U deem this application complete and we can address any of those issues during the public hearing Mr claro indicated in his letter to to board that he was okay with all of the waivers except for the ones that he was referring to M Manis so I don't have a problem supporting Mr cleric coor he raises a known quantity they've been businessing this world for 20 years um you know they have now invested in their own property instead of being a renter so you know I support what Mr clo said and first to man she's okay as well like some huge new new subdivision we're putting a walk-in freezer over in sures right existing Sur are you okay with what you know with the waiver [Music] on yeah there were two waivers that had been deferred to me one was in regard to Landscaping the other was in regard to lighting I'm comfortable with the Landscaping waiver uh for certain at the at the last I think it was the last planning board meeting I had expressed concern about the lighting on the property and suggested that that waiver might be uh that might not be comfortable with that waiver I will say that since then uh I have uh better understood the t-berry's operating hours and I believe their closing hours at 3M and while I don't want to get into the merits of the case knowing that this is a a use that is operating during the daytime only does give me Comfort uh that we don't need to see lighting uh at this time I will say of course the board always has the right to request that additional information should it see fit during the hearing in process but uh given my better understanding of The Proposal the proposed use at this time I am comfortable recommending both the lighting and the Landscaping waivers at this uh at this moment at the last meeting you only asked to see them on the plan you didn't where correct I'm sorry I'll motion I wanted to see if anybody else on the board thoughts discussion okay sorry we have ation second okay then we can have thank you anybody on the board will have any because I I totally support the men's comments about this applica uh bo is trying to move away from Grant so many waivers um I think I just want to be secure that we were going to have everything we need at that point out on the 26th to hopefully evaluate understood yeah that I don't I don't want to slow anything down I just want to mention I want to make sure they realize they need to apply to the HPC for that entrance that's being made to the building since it faces the street that doesn't have to impact what we're voting on now but I do want to make sure they realize they need to do an application to the HPC yeah I'm gonna to look into that I can't um concede that we're doing that but I'll look into that issue facing the street so you're changing the outside one person to talk at a time otherwise we're not GNA be able to get another record no's because it doesn't just face Main Street that building it faces the side street that's why den and understand the comment I just can't I got to look into it sure well just in case you do need to what's the date of the next HPC meeting Dennis it's mid Monon um but we could always do it administratively too Mara you know so it's um I can I can find it real quick but it's midm mon before I next planning meeting it's next week yeah it's the 20th it's the 20th okay thank you concern about appreciate that all right so anybody else just as far as a comment I understand the the amount of levers or you know when we do get behind when we Grant waiver but don't forget this is only waivers to the application complete and anybody on this board at any time even mid in the middle of the application can say you know what I want to see a writing plan that's on the applicant to say oh okay I'll have to come back so I'm not prepared for this is only to wait it's not to wave it forever it's to wave it for completeness is the application complete we have everything that we need to look at and like the mayor said it's not like an not that we would papor an old business versus a new business but we know what we're getting here and you yes I'd like to see what light light polls are too but is it going to make my decision that much you know am I going be able to make a decision by not having it complete today I don't believe so so that's how I feel about completeness it's not to wave it forever it's to wave it to say yeah we have everything we need for this but we always reserve the right later to ask for something and I just want to add to what Todd said you know we've got a number of very large applications several of which the councilwoman and I are accused from that got wavers and they they keep coming back and delaying and waiting and coming back because they really weren't ready because those waivers were very large and their new construction and their large subdivisions this is an existing historic building uh with an existing business that we know does lovely landscaping and they're going to make sure nobody Falls and hurts themselves but it's an existing building it's not like it's being torn down something new has being built so I'm comfortable with W Su I am one of the largest vocal people about all the waivers we Grant that's but there's a difference between you know these these new complicated subdivisions versus an existing building that's just not even looking for a usage just coming in to you know take a take a parking space so all right with that being said I vote and the vote just for purposes of the record is to uh accept the uh waivers temporary waivers um and rest to the application complete with the gr of those W as outlined in Bob's letter of March yes Mr cook yes councilwoman visaro yes Mr Campion yes G yes Mr Hill yes yes yes yes I'm sorry I had a like a triple hook up there one time I couldn't really understand anything so I had to go up from back in thank you very much public hearing is SCH March 26 yes we advertisement in the paper and we'll do the certifi later this week thank thank you all very much enjoy the rest of your thank you screaming baby we would question all right let's get back to the agenda item seven ordinance 20241 review of the Liberty Village Phase 1 Redevelopment plan um does this need an introduction by you you to run through it for us that be a good idea no I have not no the only to me were the ordinance and the requiring resolution what else you want that's all I I Haven I sent that on the six I believe it was with the agenda it was with for March 12 it was sent on 36 at 11:40 a.m. you did they see the plan that was that sent to them that's I think what the issue is I I think we got the resolution and the ordinance but the actual plan for f itself never you never got it no that's what I'm saying um this is not a rush um because um so I it's not an issue to hold this for another next yeah I mean the the pilot agreement was supposed to be introduced last night as an ordinance but um their financial planner sent our people a payment schedule that's very detailed and complicated at the last minute so there was no time for them to review it to make sure all the numbers were right so we held that off the agenda and the the goal is is that the plan amendment that Beth is going to discuss tonight she still could um is gonna now introduced but they're all going to be voted for at the same time so a delay of you know we can do it at the next meeting they'll they should match up again um because we're going to be introducing the pilot possibly at the next meeting so it's up to the chair and the board it make sense if that's here to kind of give an overview so that everybody know what they're looking I think it's posted actually think it's posted on oursite on the could find it I don't know mean car was directed to post it so I don't know where she put it use the mic sorry we're just kind of I said Carla was directed to post it on the website at least a week ago I I assume she did I looked under the Liberty will Ex setion if at some place else I could find it okay what that word could someone please explain so the public understands what that ordinance is what you're ring what is it doing be is going to that's what I was asking Beth planner to just go over there's an updated Redevelopment plan for Liberty Village that has been worked on and Beth was going to introduce it there's then there's an ordinance and a resolution that the council investors to the governor body have asked us to review it's planning we have to review it um before it goes back to them and that's what we're going to do tonight but we're finding out that this was not distributed to the board the whole package what did resolution was that's the only things that I got from the the clerk so would it be helpful introduce it when I I I requested it on on the six after it was supposed to be introduced on the fifth budget meeting and this is what was sent to me would it be helpful if we allowed that to at least introduce it for both members of the public and members of the board who may not be following along with you know how this is going to come down the pipe I mean yeah it's fine and I'm trying I'm just trying to figure out how that got screwed up because I know Beth wrote uh no Carla wrote to either Beth or the Redevelopment attorney said there's a watermark that says draft on this can I get a clean one to remove it it was to him and he wrote back and said you can just take it off and she said Okay and then I did see that um I did get that but then I maybe uh you know I was waiting until it was introduced then I asked scarla for all of the the items to that were officially introduced I didn't want justs a simple failure to communicate here so because you did get that from I okay I didn't get that from Carla no I did see the emails from uh Beth and um Jim Jim farell yes all right so it's a simple it's a simple failure to communicate so I apologize to everybody on the board that you did not get the plan Amendment and we'll make sure that gets corrected immediately Beth you can send that out to everybody right yeah I'd be happy to Eileen I'll send you the the plan if you want to distribute it for the board that' be great thank you I'll send that today you can talk about it tonight i' I'd be happy to yeah I that would be really useful um apologize to the board that you don't have didn't have time to read through the actual plan that but they will and then that will stimulate your review of it when you receive it so um Beth please okay so the first thing I want to explain is just some of the terminology that's being used so we're talking about a Redevelopment plan and an ordinance and they go hand inand but they are not quite the same thing so the Redevelopment plan is the regulating document and it's the document that I'm going to describe uh that dictates how the site shall be developed there's also an ordinance that the council introduced and will adopt and that ordinance is uh a very brief ordinance that simply adopts the Redevelopment plan as the new regulating document for this area so to the extent that folks are talking about a Redevelopment plan and or an ordinance they're technically two different documents but they're very much intertwined and uh one really really can't exist without the other um so that's a little bit of terminology the other thing that I wanted to first start out with is that ordinance uh does two things first and foremost it adopts the Redevelopment plan presuming the council adopts it the other thing that it does is it repeals the existing Redevelopment plan so the burough had adopted a Redevelopment plan just a few years ago that uh prescribed uh residential and some other uses on the property uh with less specificity than we than what we see now that Redevelopment plan will be entirely repealed and replaced with the one I'm about to describe this new Redevelopment plan uh IT addresses most of the existing Liberty Village Redevelopment area and I say most because the Northwest parking area is excluded if you look at the concept plan when you look at the concept plan at the back of the of the document you'll notice that there's an existing redevelop uh excuse me an existing parking lot that has no uh Redevelopment shown on it and that is the area that I'm referring to as being excluded the rest of the site uh that's designated as an area in need of Redevelopment is subject to the standards and the terms in this plan and what the plan does principally is it calls for the replacement of the existing Liberty Village shopping center with 123 Town excuse me 123 total units including 111 tow houses and 12 multifam affordable special needs units and so generally speaking the uh the Eastern portion of the property the the portion east of the railroad or east of stangle will be developed as a townhouse Community including one major spine road that connects from Route 12 to Church Street and that area will host most of those 111 tow houses the area west of the railroad or west of stangle will include the uh remaining town houses a handful of town houses plus an affordable housing component that will be uh completed as part of two multif family buildings with six units each those affordable units uh of which there are 12 units will be special needs units and will be occupied by veterans uh disabled veterans and the developer will partner with uh an experienced affordable housing developer who specializes in veterans housing in addition to those 12 affordable units there are also seven affordable townhouse units that are in that will be integrated in the the rest of the townhouse development of the site uh there are as I said in the beginning the project principally replaces the Liberty Village Development but there are two buildings that are exceptions uh two buildings that will remain on the uh in the area the first is uh is the existing uh twostory White Liberty Village uh office building building that faces on Church Street that building uh will remain and that building will be reoccupied uh revitalized consistent with the V District standards the other building that will remain is a single story brick building just to the east of there uh I've heard it referred to internally as the Allies building allies being uh an existing uh tenant in the space as I said it's a single story building that building will remain and that two will be subject to the V District so essentially those are two buildings that will be available for commercial development for non-residential use one of the other major features of the development is a park that will be constructed along Brown Street that Park will be a burrow Park once it is completed it's about 7500 square feet includes uh sitting areas uh as well as play equipment for children and then of course no project would be complete these days if it did not include substantial storm Water Management areas and so you'll see uh on the concept plan there are substantial areas and it includes for example an area behind the Brown Street Park uh sort of between the park and the rest of the development it also includes the uh Southwest parking area it you'll note that that is identified as an area for flood compensation or flood storage compensation and then there are variety of small or modest Siz storm water uh detention basins or retention basins throughout the project I also want to note on the Brown Street Park that one of the one of the nice features about that Park is that there will be access to the park both from Brown Street as well as from the development itself there's a walkway that will connect the development to the park one of the uh I would say the the most important features of the regulatory aspects of the plan is the requirement that the developer comply with the concept plan located at the end of the Redevelopment plan so that concept plan that I had cited earlier I believe is exhibit uh a that concept plan depicts building Footprints the park storm Water Management areas access locations both in terms of that spine road that will connect uh Church to uh Route 12 it also uh depicts how the portion of the development uh west of the railroad will connect to stangle that concept plan must uh or I should say the site plan that they eventually file with this planning board must be consistent with that concept plan that is a fundamental requirements in order for them to proceed with development of the property additionally there are uh architectural renderings included in the plan that have the same requirement in the sense that their site plan the architectural plans that they will submit to you must be consistent with those renderings and they include uh renderings for the tow houses and while I don't have renderings included for the multif family the affordable units um the Redevelopment plan does require that those units be consistent the architecture of of those units be consistent with the architecture of the tow houses for which renderings are provided additionally as I mentioned with the brown Street Park park there are also concept plans included in in the Redevelopment plan that state that the developer must submit a site plan that is Con that has a a brown Street Park plan that is consistent with the renderings included in the Redevelopment plan the exception to that is the play equipment the developer is not required to propose the exact same play equipment but the the layout of the plan and other features of the park plan uh must be provided in the eventual site plan applic application there are a variety of other standards throughout the plan it includes things uh such as the uh the typical bulk standards that we would expect to see it also requires Street trees as well as sidewalks throughout the project um and I will say there is a uh railroad crossing that is uh set forth uh providing access from east and west on other either side of the railroad uh as you would expect given the existing uh the existing Crossing uh and so that is that is carried forward it also the plan also recognizes that there's a chance that that railroad crossing may change and so it does Grant permission for the concept plan to change in order to reflect uh any change to that Crossing location uh as well as any changes that may occur uh along uh Church Street for uh for Road realignment that may or may not occur in the future so while there are some limited exceptions to compliance with the concept plan the uh I would say the the most important feature of this Redevelopment plan is a requirement that the site plan comply with the concept plan the the site plan comply with the architectural renderings and of of course that they uh that they not exceed the density and provide permitted uses as set forth in the Redevelopment plan and so that is a very quick overview of the Redevelopment plan I'm happy to go into as much detail as the board would like uh but I didn't want to get too far on the weeds given that folks haven't had a chance to review it if the area in the west of the existing parking I think has the blood FL issues is that still technically an area the Redevelopment after we declared it as such or does that have to be declared it's out of the Redevelopment plan I I think I heard your question as asking if those areas uh to the West will remain as an area in need of redevelop the answer is yes uh regardless of whether it's the parking lot that is not subject to this plan or the uh the flood storage area that is they will remain as part of the area need of Redevelopment unless the B Council uh uh repeals uh the designation from those specific areas I just need I hate to I hate to correct you on anything that because you're always so good but that storm water basin on the furthest westernmost part is part of the permit that D is issuing this project it stays with this project it will never go away according to I'm sorry I agree I wasn't if maybe I didn't hear the question I didn't mean to suggest otherwise yeah maybe I think maybe the question is the original Redevelopment area this current plan that we have to consider is phase one of two right so the original Redevelopment area cover area that isn't included in this phase one plan am I correct yes yeah there are so that parking lot that is uh not the flood compensation area is not subject to this Redevelopment plan that would presumably be part of a a phase two development but I will say that uh there's no uh existing zoning or Redevelopment plan uh plan standard that would apply to that parking lot that would be subject to Future burrow discussion negotiation right but currently it's under the old Redevelopment plan no no the redevelop the old Redevelopment plan is going to be repealed so those standards will no longer be in place point the areas that we are not covering in phase one that were covered on the original Redevelopment area well are they they they are they repealed by this or are they going to be reped oh I think there's a distinction the Redevelopment plan the previous Redevelopment plan is going to be repealed the designation is a separate action and that will remain in place okay so then we could expect a Redevelopment plan in the future on the property that we don't have a Redevelopment or uh or or on a bare minimum of fix of the parking lot over there or something correct I would say that would be a phase two phase two of sorts discussion make sure I'm understanding that obviously if the the standing plan isn't repealed in its entirety this plan is adopted that's the that's the approach that's being taken the um areas that have been deemed a need of Redevelopment that are not covered by this phase one plan they would be areas of the the designation hasn't changed there's still areas in need um but they will then have no underlying they will not have any plan adopted until such point that Council negotiates with the developer or do think a different developer whoever whatever Council does for that other part of it and and the complicated thing for the redeveloper is that the storm water rules have changed such that um he couldn't build what he was approved for because he didn't there was no way for him to do the storm water storage so he would have to design some something very different I'm with you I I I was always I always had concerns about the housing that was closer to the flood plane so I'm not right there's no objection or or he's gonna have to find some way to get the DP permit 10 acres of dirt coming whatever it is right exactly right okay I I just want to make I just want to make sure that because right so we we're gonna have but there will be some small subset of parcels that have been needed an area in need that will then once presuming this all goes through that will not have an underly will not have any zoning attached that is correct other than what's in the master plan as a suggestion um but the by right zoning get superseded by the development right so I'm sorry folks the the Redevelopment plan will be repealed but the underlying zoning will remain in place oh that's right yeah talked about that with the right so theoretically I'm just I'm just GNA just so theoretically he's never going to get permits from GP I understand that but theoretically and I want a pony the um the underlying zoning of yes the underlying zoning that correct in that area is vas right that's the correct okay so so absent any particular absent those Parcels that are not part of phase one it'll just revert to vas until at some point in the future perhaps the governing body decides to come up with some other plan in consult with the developer y y y y okay that was my question there is no limit on this Bo at council's request declared a parcel and area need of Redevelopment said parcel is now out of that Redevelopment plan but it's still an area in need of Redevelopment and it's still can have a plan in the future we're not going to have to redeclare an area needed Redevelopment in the future because that rides forever for that is correct yes that is correct at some point if he doesn't take action to fix anything the B Council can remove as revelop that the hammer get okay so I I would say that I think I want to thank that for the introduction I would feel better if we could have some time to look at it and then right and then because we need to have a public hearing right on or yeah this is our sorry Lois right this is our consistency with the master plan right the council will have the public hearing so so I mean not for um the so we hopefully we'll get the and in the next whatever day right we'll have a chance to look at it we'll have we'll have an opportunity at the 26 meeting and that lines up with what um counil want yeah I me hopefully we'll be able to to introduce the pilot on the 26 so that hearing wouldn't be for another couple weeks anyway so we're not we're adopting the whole package the the the ordinance for the the plan the ordinance for the pilot and the contract which is a resolution with the redeveloper um the agreement they are all going the same night so so you're always one night before us you introduce the pilot March 25th we have our consistency review March 26th you then have your council meeting on the 8th and that's when you can do everything because we've already reported back on the 26th April 8 yeah but I don't think I think we're going to probably go for the last meeting in April because there's still a couple of minors points with um the contract which uh is over on the spangle Road area so um he's just checking with the DP about some waivers and things like that so you know I mean I'd rather get it right than get it fast and um it is taken us a long time to get a plan that I was want to say I think that the the whole Council and and definitely Beth is happier with than the last plan so it's taken us a long time to get the Finish like literally to get to see finishes to agree to finishes I mean that's like it was very important about you know what this was going to look like for the public that it was going to you know basically fit in more as a as a new as a new style of of a classic town so um so I'd rather have the I'd really rather have the planing board take their time reading it for the next two weeks than just P you know I and I am I got a big start on calling up with car to make sure this thing got posted public to see it before that's what I'm saying that that would be yeah absolutely and none of this you know posting it on a Friday and have hearing on a Monday night I mean I want the puzz have documents for at least a week before the there's public hearings absolutely and thank you Ben for your introduction of it because I think that's really going to help the board you got the introduction then when you get the thing the actual plan you can read it with be words in mind and then come we have to a full um Frank discussion at the next meeting about what we want to for C and where can the public Stud I'm I'm going to make sure it's posted on the website Lois but you know if you don't have access to send a copy to the Flemington Public Library we could do that we could send a copy to the library the library in leison just said that's a really good idea all it really like that idea so we'll do that we will do that perect all right so thank you for that um that's all we can really talk about on that item for tonight so we'll move on to item eight resolution 20246 bless Wellness LLC from the application 20236 block 44 lot 7 um we need to I we need to promote somebody do we yes um the attorney Larry CA just you did promoted him to p all right so how do we need to introduce this Ken is it can you explain why we're doing this I I can and and I'm not going to you know interfere with Larry's arguments but basically what we're here for tonight is the applicant is asking for a revision to one of the conditions of the resolution and I'll let him go through which one that is um the applicant did agree to notice for this meeting tonight out of an abundance of caution um the standard is if it is a condition that is a material condition that may have affected the board's decision on the uh approval of the application than notice is required um so instead of making that determination and running the risk of having an issue the applicant did agree to notice um e you have received copies of all the Publications and notices was the 200 foot list correct correct um as well as the publication in the newspaper um so the applicant's attorney is here tonight he'll explain what revisions they're asking for and uh then the board um I would ask that they ask any questions that they may have uh both of the board's professionals as well as of the applicant um and anybody in the applicant may have brought with them and uh then deliberate I I would like to hear from everybody um even if it's just to say that you agree with everyone else that's spoken um but I think it's important that we do that and uh then you can make a vote on whether or not to amend that condition of the Pres and the people that are eligible to vote are listed on the agenda thank you okay so Mr C catalo yes hi Larry catalo UL scrio appearing on behalf of the applicant bless Wellness LLC would you like to introduce why you've come before us today please yes certainly so uh as you will recall bless was before the board on November 27th 2023 um regarding its proposed uh cannabis dispensary for uh 313 US Route 22 in Flemington and 315 US Route 202 um the board held a public hearing and voted to Grant conditional use approval uh and minor site plan approval and bulk variance approvals for signage the vote occurred that night um the board um also ran through some conditions uh that were to go into the resolution and um after the board voted and in the coming weeks a proposed resolution was circulated to the applicant uh myself the board's professionals and probably the board members as well too um and uh in that time the applicant uh came up with um conditions it thought ought to be uh amended and principally uh those of you who were here and voted on the application there was considerable discussion at the very end of the application not really dealing with the conditional use approval or the uh minor site plan but really dealing uh just with this condition at the end of the meeting um part of the prop as you recall from the hearing part a very small part of the property uh where the Pearl Vision building is located is located in raron Township the portion of the site where the cannabis dispensary is uh to be proposed at the former Pizza Hut 25 Burgers building is fully in uh Flemington and the last building the Burger King is also fully within Burger King so that's the three three um buildings on the site so there was considerable discussion whether how to craft a condition regarding um regarding uh any uh approvals that might be needed from Raritan um the applicant's position was that the condition should fall within a um condition pertaining to Outside Agency approvals and um anything that was needed from from Ron Township would would uh would be would fall within that condition um the the language that we've proposed to um the board attorney was that the applicant would comply with all applicable burrow County and state statutes ordinances regulations including without limitation obtaining all approvals Andor permits um the board on the other hand went with a condition that stated affirmatively that the applicant was required to obtain a letter of no interest or some type of approval from the Raritan zoning board or the Ron Zoning Board of adjustment um so we are here tonight to request and that was the condition that was in the draft resolution that we got as um you know so we are here tonight to ask the board to go back take another look at that and go to the more um more to to the to the condition that we had proposed which was that that any any any anything needed from Ron would fall within a condition pertaining to uh Outside Agency approvals from the burrow of the county the state um or any other approvals that are needed so that's um the request tonight um we're doing so because we're making this request principally because if we if we are affirmatively required by the condition to go to riton um we believe that the project won't proceed uh we we do not riton will not give us a letter of no interest and we do not uh at at at at the at this time um believe it's you know before we get further down with um the development process and the resolution compliance process to to have to go to R for any other type of approval so we would like this to go back to the earlier um or to our proposed condition that this Falls within the all other outside approvals um type of condition so that's our request we do not uh we do not believe it's um material or um significant it's something that was discussed at the very end of the um at the very end of the the presentation that we made but as uh Miss kazinski said we have noticed uh given public notice to all Property Owners than 200 ft and we have published a notice in the newspaper regarding our request um out of uh an abundance of caution um in case there was a difference of opinion on that issue so that's our request and uh happy to answer any questions regarding it and and uh keep the process moving forward ageny all Outside Agency approval how is that different than I mean I know like not to go to the Zoning Board in R Township is one thing but does that mean you have to get it from the RAR and Township committee I mean what does that mean um could you say that one more time mayor I don't understand what that mean when you said you want to fall under of getting all other Outside Agency approvals that they would fall into that so how would you how would you achieve getting rare in Township's approval it would be it would be the same it would be the same way but things change quickly in in cannabis it's possible that that Ron's ordinance change change in the future it's possible they stay the same but um if but um if there's an affirmative obligation for Les to go to riton then that's something we would need to do um we believe and if that's the way the condition is written We Believe we' be firmly obligated to do it if something changes in the future um where Raritan changed its ordinances and the condition was as we have proposed it where Outside Agency where this this fell into other Outside Agency approvals and their ordinances changeed we wouldn't need to go to to Raritan that's the that's the way we're looking at it and um that's why we would we believe um the condition should uh be amended let me just clarify I have a similar question to them M but your test your statement seemed to suggest that if the wording was left as it was you'd have to go to RAR for the letter but if we change the word into what you requested you wouldn't have to do that so that's a clarification I'd like you to confirm or deny whether that's the way you see it but then also you seem to be suggesting that if we change the word in if if Raritan changed their ordinance you then won't need to go to them but do you know something we don't about them changing their ordinance we we don't know anything that you don't know it's think like I said at the outset things change can can change quickly in cannabis some of these cannabis ordinances were adopted in a very short period of time to permit the use uh it's possible those things change um could change in the future conf why why can you just clarify for me whether you think you're saying that with the word in as we put it it's very clear you have to go to Ron to get this Le of no interest but your your your statement seems to suggest that if we take it out you feel you won't have to go to ritin for that letter of interest is that correct what you is that what you're saying it's our understanding we still need to go to Raritan either way except if if something changes in the future with their ordinances then then we would not need to go to Raritan if and right now you have to go you know you have to go to riton for this Le of Interest right yes right now we need we know we need to go to riton so unless you're thinking of sitting on this and not doing anything until that ordinance change happens in raron what difference would it make if we changed the language in our in our statement in in our resolution sorry well we we don't want to we don't want to sit and do nothing uh for the time being we believe that if the the language changed to a to a to a more General provision that where the rtin uh approval is subsumed within all other Outside Agency approvals then that would give the applicant some comfort to move forward uh with the proposed development move forward with resolution compliance um and then deal with um rtin further down the road um if that condition was to stay the same and affirmatively obligate us to go to to rtin then um the applicant uh really um will have to make some tough decisions if it would move forward with the with the proposed development at this point because as it stands now um raron does not permit cannabis uses and uh and and and it really the applicant would have a difficult time uh moving forward with the project um the way the condition is currently written well it's not the way the conditions written it's the way that ritan requirement is written but I know Jeff wanted to a question I have a question for cam okay so um and I want to we had some of this discussion at the time of the the application but um you could refresh my memory please um when we've had it happens from time to time where the majority of an application is within the burrow and there's a small little corner like what we're talking about here that is outside of the burrow in the past what has the board done in terms of resolution conditions for out for for I mean it's always raran for raran to sign off on or letter of no interest or is is there is there something that we've done in the past is there something that the state law requires what does Municipal lands law let tell us in situations like this does the as the applicant is proposing does the um any outside all agency approval cover the fact that as the applicant's attorney has made very clear and we talked about it at the time of the hearing this is not a permitted use in Rarity even though the totality of the building all of the parking and all the improvements are in the burrow I think we all that was on the record we all agreed to that but but the lease area for this building envelope and you know all of that is has this little piece of it that's in rared so what's I'm asking our board's attorney what's the law what have we done before like what language have we used in other resolutions for these kinds of cases where we've got this jurisdictional question all right so that was a appful sorry it's okay I'll try and take one at a time and you know I I do want to say that Mr patal and his clients in a very difficult situation right um to me there's logic and there's statute the MLF and unfortunately this board as is r Township is governed by the statutory provisions of the ml I don't personally recall in my tenure here that we have ever asked ridan for a letter of no interest oring approval I've definitely been involved in the converse before this board where they've come before us and said there's this little tiny sliver do you guys care and this board has taken a look at it and issued a resolution or issue a letter saying you know what we defer to you we're okay you don't have to come before us but the statute says that when a piece of property is located in Two Towns both towns must review that application so it's not so much that cannabis is prohibited in rid it's that ridan will not issue a letter of no interest or an approval with regard to the portion of the property in its town now that may change if their ordinances change and they may be more willing down the road to do that but they would still have to go get that letter of no interest or approval because it's what the statute requires it doesn't say if the use is permitted in that other town that they can circumvent that approval so that's where we are personally and I think that Bob and Beth and I don't know if Beth is still on um you know had indicated that if this condition was written generally and we were going through resolution compliance the issue would still come up can I can I just add I I had a conversation with the mayor of Veron Township about the site [Music] um their position is that this is an illegal use in the in the township not not prohibited but legal or however they want to term it um the the committee seems to be split on the topic of cannabis and flaming burough some of them truly don't care if we have it some of them care very much if it's on their border but they're I don't know I don't know what the consensuses like I don't know where their majority is I just know they all us or Rarity them Rarity I don't know where I don't know what their majority feels I just know that they don't all agree on the topic of cus what was indicated to me by the mayor was that if the applicant submitted a letter directly to the T committee he would have in good conscience bring it to the entire T committee for consideration so um you know I I asked him about options like fencing off the portion that's in Ritt and Township putting a massive tree in the portion of RAR Township um you know blocking it off whatever he would not commit to any of those things uh but deferred to the majority of the township committee um I just I just have a question for the attorney I I had heard that you actually sent a the applicant actually sent a letter to Township before you ever even came to the planning board and you never heard from them is that true two two things happen we we we made a request to the planning board not I'm sorry we made a request to riton as to how this site had been handled in in the past um and we didn't get any any uh response to them before we came to the planning board um subsequent to your this planning board voting to approve we sent another letter to Ron asking them to to give us a letter no interest and they said no Ron said no you actually heard from them at that yes we heard from them late December early early January after after our hearing after after this hearing after the vote after the vote approve you ever heard from them when you first wrote to them they they were dark but after you went through the whole planning board hearing then they said no yes so yeah to to that effect we we reached out to them in in writing and we asked them for input on this site and we did not hear back I just want to point out to the plan where there was a change of Mayor so I think there was a different philosophy between the mayor that was there last year um and the mayor that's there this year and so I mean if the condition bet of Cara would be that they still have to get something from the township but they could apply directly to the T committee and let them take it up there it actually said that the actual it said the applicant shall provide the board with a letter of no interest or approval from the township of ridan or its Zoning Board of adjustment so we had both options there again understanding that it's a difficult situation that there's a difference between logic and statute and that we've done been involved in a similar situation on the rece is there any legal way for them to eliminate that little tiny piece from the site plan to make that their site comply and only be in Flemington only thing I know is so the landlord can't rewrite the terms of the lease with meets and Bounds and descriptions and a survey the way that the statute is written is that the parcel that is the subject of the appli so the parcel goes all the way to Burger King so the parcel is the parcel is the parcel it's one lot with the three building the conduit right okay if I if I could could jump in um on a couple of other things that had come up in this conversation um first of all the site plan was approved by both Flemington and riton long ago this is an approved site plan we only bless only came into for a minor subdivision approval limited to a very small part of the site as we described um much like Burger King did when they came in to get a minor site plan to allow the Burger King on the very small portion of the site that they have the Burger King approval did not contain any condition regarding Raritan um approval nothing affirmative requiring you to go to the zoning board or to go to uh the town committee for letter no interest in and um nothing else contemplating any anything with regard to to riton so um I hope that answers your question as to to how um this has been handled in the past by uh by this planning board Reon I asked the question let me just put this out on the record because car wants all of this on the record is that when we heard the application for another building on the single parcel okay um that um for the bank PNC Bank to be the Burger King and we had a long hearing on that because there was traffic and signage and more signage and drive-through windows and all sorts and a change in use add a change in use and all that other good stuff if you look at the resolution for that I do not believe that we required RAR in at all because the totality of the project area was in the burrow right even though the parcel right straddles that all of pearl is in is in the Township all of Burger King is in the burrow and almost all of this building well all of this building and almost all of the parking are so we at the time we did not for Burger King require I don't think we I'm almost certain because I don't remember the conversation us getting to any of this I think it was just an any and all and outside was the kind of a boilet plate that we use in there and I mean I don't think it solves the appli problem I still think the ml is going to require them to get something from because it's I mean it's Carol it out I think the state law is going to supersede whatever is going on and I mean I personally I don't have a problem changing the language and going with what the applicant says because I don't think at the end of the day it's going to make a difference to them we raise the issue towards the end of the hearing because I was worried that ran was gonna throw the whole thing out after we spent time on the application because of this little piece of property and it sounds like they may or may not but I personally don't care my my decision on on hearing would not have been impacted if with this with this condition being as the applicant suggested or as we put in our draft form I don't I mean I'm fine I still think he's got a problem is is what but that's but that wouldn't change a problem because it's not cannabis it's a drug Choice I'm I'm not I'm you know I'm on I'm on caffine so you know for me a Starbucks could but so it's I think that this is I think the issue in front of us I think to kind of to bring like would those of us who are listed here right would we have felt do was this condition that was that Cara put into her draft would that have changed that we voted on the application for me my my feeling on the application personally was not one or the other I was I felt that they met the priv they needed to do in was everything else but I still think they but like as you said if it isn't going to change anything for them why you can change it and it it could only init change their ordinances we believe but also um it might be three to two on the township committee K we really don't know I we know that the mayor last year ignored the letter and the mayor this year did not so we don't know where there's three other people on attention Comm in but but our word allows all options I can't but the difference the difference is that our wording put an affirmative requirement on them to go do something in order to to do resolution compliance the language that the applicant's attorney is suggesting is the language that we put on pretty much everything that we do any all Outside Agency we use that like and I think that then it would be I think what what's gonna end up happening I mean whatever I think what's going to happen is that the code official in RAR in Township's going to come over and yell at them because they're doing something without having approval but that's that's on them after the fact I don't think it's I think it takes away the affirmative obligation which is clear from what ATT when they've gotten notices and they're not here saying don't do that guys don't do it they're not here objecting I I agree what do that mean legally I mean like that's that's a is there legal Jeopardy girl sorry hear me at all like is any legal Jey I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that okay so so the we have sorry not this lest so this was approved on the 23rd of November last year there were there were guidelines around that approval to go to RAR Townshed is there any legal Jeopardy to to the burrow if the township says no and then the development is stop has there ever been a situation where the township comes and says we're going to pick a legal fight in some way shape or form I don't know that code but well this is actually it's a unique situation we haven't even adopted the resolution yet okay and that's because the applicant asked us not to so that they could come and and have this discussion with the board so we can make that change and to be quite honest it and I think I might have said this at the last meeting it really doesn't matter to me from a legal standpoint either which way is R because in my opinion I don't even think and I can't speak for whoever is going to do resolution compliance on this but resolution compliance is going to require that the ml statutes be complied with and that is a statutory requirement so there may not even be worked on at the site for a code official to have an issue with because they may not even get to any sort of building permit step so as long as everybody's clear including the applicant about that and I can't be sure of anything I'm just saying that's a distinct possibility to my point of why change the word in that because we might we had a very long discussion about that at the time we were we all know this letter is going to be required from their we know that we we they would have to do that as the ordinances and resolution their rules stand with theit right we know that so I'm not sure why it benefits anybody to change the word can somebody help me yeah let me let me play out a scenario they could subdivide the prop they could subdivide the property and put everything that's in Flemington in Flemington it's just an option I'm not I'm not suggesting it but however there is another way to do but by putting the words in that you must go to Ren Township on this now they might have to come back to us with a new property or whatever but the property that's all in Flemington just like Burger King like where where the mayor said well we have a problem with Burger King yeah yeah because Burger King should have got R cons approval too the way that the ml stands so let me require that so let me throw this up there a hybrid of the two is another possibility so option one Leal language as is option two general language which at the end of the day would still require the same proof or option three which is the specific language as required by njsa blah blah blah blah blah Municipal land use law in which case we could even spell it out if there's a subdivision whereas that property is no longer subject to an approval by the land SL then that condition goes away it's just another way to get at the condition versus saying you because even I think that was implied but that was impli but to to to um to the chair question that would be the reason why they changed language to a more General piece just like anybody else who's in a property that P it's it's up to them it's up to them to get their approvals and their ducks in a row whether or not other properties are we set precedent right because I always understand we don't set precedent but we haven't done it on other properties that that are um so again I think the language there are other ways to skin a cat with a more General set no I I that is true that is abely the current resolution is related to the plot no the the parel parcel which is not subdivided right now so if I can understand if you want to change it to allow for subdivision but then still then I can understand changing it for that reason I'm I'm still not convinced on producing it I don't have any any problem if they want to try to get a letter of no interest from the township committee versus the land the Zoning Board in in or in Township the zoning board I don't think they can if they're if they see it this is they can't approve it because it's not an allowed use in the town at all so I mean it would be like approving strip clubs you know why put both honest because I didn't want to make that decision as to which and could provide them with the information I wanted to leave it up to them as to who could couldn't and and again to give them the applicants some flexibility so if I could just it's not uncommon for a draft of the conditions on on the resolution to be Cara takes takes everything that we've said at the hearing looks at all a minute comes up with the draft sends it to whomever whatever application sends it to their attorney and there often times is a back forth on oh actually I thought we meant this we meant that and 99% of the time that stuff has worked out without the board getting involved at all and like maybe 10% of the time as chair I heard that there was oh yeah it's not coming because we're still working out on some language on yada yada because like caught me on an email hey this thing has happen yet oh this happens regularly I think what we're seeing here is that this one this what's being proposed by the applicant here for this condition Q I think it is the resolution is substantively different enough that par felt we needed to that it triggered the these kinds of questions that are in the law we had long discuss right it was a long discussion so I am what I'm saying is that if if if in in and I know this one's not regular because because we with the Cannabis question but this was just a vanilla application like and an applicant said and we had generally approved the project and and said hey actually can we use this language versus that language and power would have signed off on it we wouldn't even be having this conversation because we try to make sure that once an approval has been granted everyone's on board with the language and then obviously the board's interests are taken care of but like we try to work with an applicant has an approval in order to be able to make resolution compliance happen in a way that lets them go forward because the board has you know put an applicant through the time and expense of a hearing and we've done all of our questions and all of our due diligence and if approval has been granted we try I think we try should try like let's get this thing done so that they can so we can adopt the resolution to get with their 45 days and then they can actually start pulling permits and get something done right and I'm that's that's where I'm I'm coming from I would have liked Paris language but I I I don't care if we go to the other language if if that's going to maybe help this thing move forward um but is it but that's my question is it though car is clearly say they can't move ahead without that anyway so what I mean that risk may be on the applicant and the applicant understands never understand doesn't care and then why do we care let them have what they want why do we care because I'm also worried about us I'm worried that we have a condition that's too restricted that we know that the applicant can't comply that does put the board at risk foring an unreasonable condition that's that's the legal question that that that may agent was trying to get at I think that if the applicant's coming up with something that is maybe not what we thought it was going to be but may it's GNA end up having the same result because of the state law I'm let that's where I'm coming at like let them do it and they're gonna have the problem I wasn't saying it as being unreasonable I was saying it as being realistic we know the situation between us and the township and then do we we want to be good neighbors with raon too I know it's been said in the context before we're going to come across these decisions before what if do we have to consider how r view we change this word but it's not RAR it's five different committee members right and we know they don't all agree on this topic so if we change it some may say great and others might be you know we you know we just I think we need to look at it on what Jeff said making sure that our applicant can get through compliance and it's still on them to get it but at least it gives them a getting it because you're not getting it adustment and Cara theoretically they could when they go to R in Township whatever entity there to there could be a condition that they put on and say you know what don't build it I believe we're talking about one two or three parking spots very I'm not and part of it is landscape B so theoretically they may say we don't want that in our we don't want anything to do with that on our Township and then that there are other ways to get there from a I I don't know whether the right word subdivision or a but but the other the other thing that we're not talking about and I'm not trying to game out the the applicants Council here but if they were to go to the Raritan Township zoning board and make application and be denied because of whatever they could appeal that decision because we are talking about three parking spots and some landscaping and I mean the applicant may choose to not go down that road but again it's on them to do it right not on us we're not taking away that option from them if they're denied by either the township committee or or by the zoning board they have they have an appeals process they have they have rights under the ml to appeal decisions um and it may be that they this becomes the case that we end up citing and I you know we teach in class you know let me let me this there for everybody what about a general condition with a reference to the statute that applies I mean does that get us to the exact same spot does it keep open a reminder that this is an issue is that more than anyone's willing to or interested in doing again I'm just trying to throw out about I mean when we so so we have um wor Road applicate okay we questioned about theot access in their opening um would talk no I'm just gonna say when when you do a resolution like that are you going to site the state the state njs njsa a rule from njac where it says that they have to go to the do I I I'm just trying to come up here here's funny half the time we do and half time we don't right if there if like on the side play they're depicting a a driveway opening we will um have Absolut have say approval from do for the driveway opening is a condition of approval but we don't necessar chapter that's it's about the chapter verse so we don't necessarily put in like if it's a County Road you me County planning board you we don't we don't list all of it out we don't say yeah we say it we don't say soil conservation and y y y this is why I love our great discussions we have we've been very vocal here but we haven't really gone to anybody on on the board that yes so anybody that I haven't seen any hands raised but then I haven't been looking directly but so Anna do you have anything you want to raise with this I mean ultimately I don't mind changing the language but again like it's the same point though it's still an issue so I don't quite I mean I get that it's like down the road and like I I it's I yeah this is such an interesting kind of concept because you know I yeah I I don't know I agree with everyone um but I just don't know like is it worth to change the language just because it's the same thing we're I know it's like a circle essentially right kind of like a revolving thing so right I I no I appreciate the discussion and that's why we do this discussion and knowledge I appreciate that um Jay just let me go to the members who else Mr Hill Jim do you have any comments um it's it's just so minor that it's just a shame that it's you know holding up the plan but the subdivision that was discussed was that to take a major piece of the lot and big enough to make a lot out of it for somebody else or was it just to carve off the couple of lots and merge it into the property next door hypothetical to carve off the merian that in is in that section in that parel what is the size of the parcel [Music] in a little lawn and parking spes it's certainly not enough to be a legal lot no it's well I was wondering if it could be merged with a lot next to right yeah it's it's it's something that's going in a circle not going anywhere based upon what Ron's doing that's just a suggestion we're making for to be addressed we can't address it within this resolution right here I don't think right um Mike Michael do you have any Miss Campion do you have any comments yes uh one I'm I'm surprised a zoning for representative from Raritan didn't reach out to the applicant very unprofessional second can we hold off on changing any Lang language until the applicants reach out to the township committee see what they come back with a question for can I do that I mean we can all certainly agree or propose to do whatever um Larry you've done that already right or did you just go to the zoning board we've reached out to the township committee we've we've we've already done that and at you know at this point um the condition as written I think in some of the comments by the board members have alluded to this it gives it really empowers riton to to if we were to go to them to to Really impose their will or impose impose things in sight plan on this property when it really has not when it on this building when it really hasn't really shouldn't really be able to except to to say the use is okay or the use isn't okay if you give this them this affirmative if there's this affirmative obligation to go there they can make whatever they want out of that affirm obligation If this just goes to more General language then then they're not so empowered we just need to do what we would do in the ordinary course and they can't wave this condition in front of us and say you need to come to us for for uh a use variance or site plan they would we would be free to approach them how we wanted the way it's written now really gives them too much leverage over uh over um this plan and we don't believe they have it we understand that they that they have some uh Authority based on the statute or case law to to sign off on the use and that's it but we don't you know we think that this should stay as a the we think this should sort of revert to the generic condition that the board has used in the past we're not really this resolution is still open it hasn't been uh approved this condition isn't really memorialized yet it's not we're not coming here formally requesting a change like um has been referenced as well um you're free to go there's a dialogue between the applicant and the board on the on the language of this condition and what we're really doing is trying to come up with something that we think is workable um we don't think it's necessarily you have to change what you already did because the condition the resolution hasn't been adopted yet and uh you know we do think that this that this resolution does need to get adopted uh hopefully you know in the very near future um but we need to really push this ahead one way or another so you have you have reached out to the Zoning Board of adjustments and the township committee and they never responded we reached out to the riton township committee and they would not give us a letter of no interest I've got another you mean any question do you need the under our Ordinance do we need all the parking that includes the three three or four lot parking lots that are going to raron and that's one other thing I want to clear up too there's no portion of what is included in the minor site plan that you approved is in raron the larger track the larger parcel the site plan that was approved in the80s part of it is in Ron but the site plan that you approved there's no parking space spes there's no grass there's nothing in Rarity like Burger King I opened up the plan and all 83 parking spaces assigned to that building are fully within the burrow the reverse is true some of the Pearl spaces are partially in Flemington so we actually in Flemington have some of the PE spaces Raritan has none of this building space and these are assigned by the owner of the condo property it's just the plan says parking area to be used by Canada this dispensary is 83 spaces and they all are in the burrow all 83 that they are claiming I don't they can tell us how they got to that but all 83 are fully within lemington there are 18 spaces assigned to the Pearl some of those are Flemington as well so I with three within this no are you saying all 83 they need or all 83 they have all 83 they have are all inflamed right so what what the overall lot is partially that was the original hearing somebody was claiming that some of the Cannabis spaces were in Flemington when really none them so even to get to C this parcel be within this parel there that's already complet what did we just parel is the lot parel is to individual they're individual three spots in it is no it's not there's there is there is one lot there is one lottin block and there's three buildings up oh and it's one building is Pearl is ined right two tax for thatp one property sorry did the owner of this complex count out parking spaces and say this guy's getting this and this guy's getting that and that's how this this line was drawn or was it just based on the Cannabis numbers and this is all they needed and that's how the pl it's it's a lease area with 83 spaces all in the Lee all in the the lease area is completely in the B correct I I don't just yeah I get it I get what you said do you understand well I do we got this question is if it's the least area is all within the burrow just as the least area of Burger King is all within the burrow do we treat it like Burger King because we've already set that prec and I hate precedence but it's set has anybody have we seen or Larry have you reviewed that resolution for PNC I reviewed the Burger King resolution yes oh good there enough parking on the project to take care of everything that we you need without taking having the spaces that go into ritan yes we we have 83 parking spaces it's well overp parked it's it's it's well overp parked for everybody yeah it's well over parked for for for the bless cannabis use and bless does not need any Spa any more than the 83 parking spaces and none of those 83 parking spaces are in Ron and they and they wouldn't accept the fact that if you turn that whole area where their parking is in the grass they would still not turn it down or would they would turn it down you don't need the parking make it uh make it grass it's serving the Pearl building right it would it would disturb the the Pearl building is is there and the parking for the Pearl building is in Ron so that needs to stay as is and we've not proposed any changes to anything beyond that lease uh Pearl parking is some stuff that's a problem I hate to say it that way right and if Pearl ever come before we'll have to have this whole discussion but can I just add there some other members of the board that haven't had a chance to say anything so we've got Dennis do you want to say anything additional just it's not like the building split between ritton and Flemington I think that the whole site plans within Flemington I support making the language very um General and it's up to them yeah that's it why we have the discussions because it all came out in the end Melissa do you have anything I think pretty much just to Echo everyone else I feel like we're this is kind of going around in circles um and also the echo mic I you know it's kind of disappointing that ran didn't respond in any form or fashion to the applicant kind of you know yeah so so it sounds to me like the board is um minded to change the wording to the different wording that was suggested and I just also want to make a point for the record that we talked about subdivisions but we don't need it for this parcel and then I was we were just I just to make it clear here too this is a unique situation this is a unique statute it's something that does not have a great deal of legislative guidance this is a use that is a very controversial in some cases there's litigation in this burrow with regard to this matter so that is one of the reasons why we're trying to be as clear and um conservative as possible if the applicant can get something from ran that complies with that General if we're going to change it that way fine if they get a declaratory judgment action from the court saying that that Statute in this instance should not be construed that way how whatever is that they do but my job to cover this board and I feel like if you're making that determination that it's not required on behalf of the applicant then that could be an issue and car are you you're also asking us there were two underlying questions one was is it sub enough that would have changed our decision correct we don't have to do that we don't have to do that we noticed correct we noticed that we reopen the public heing y the applicant didn't want to come make the argument and then to have the board say well it is substantive and then have to go back and miss this meeting tonight and miss the notice so they agreed to so bu of caution they noticed so do we need to a reopen the public hearing yes because they've noticed so I do want to make sure that there's right so I'm just I'm just trying to get a to-do list because I'll I I I I will help along with that and then after the public hearing is open once we hear public hearing is open we'll hear comments again from anybody in the public and and then we'll close the public hearing and then vote on the resolution uh well we will vote on that condition whether or not the board is comfortable with that amended language if that's the case I'll put the final version together there were some other changes that Beth had made some other comments that Council had made I'll have that all ready for to to go for the 20 why not treat it like Burger k i for the reasons I indicated before mayor it's my recommendation that we leave a general Le up again not looking at buring not being here for buring having that be a completely different type of use having the situation be entirely different having a litigation with this bur with regard to this use at this property from what I understand um that's just my recommendation so did we de facto reopen the public hearing while we were having this whole discussion or do should I make a that we reopen public hearing so it's not re it's no for this they no it's a public hearing is is not a thank that's what I look thank you so and again just I'm not trying to make this more difficult I'm truly truly not make just so do we now need a motion to open public hearing formally it's on bu public it's a public a motion to open the open to the public comment yes we have ation to open thank you we have to vote on that can we vote that Jeff yes Mr yes mayor Carol council faar is this only for the people that are eligible to open they didn't listen to the tap um Mr Campion yes cook yes Miss gin Miss whitesman yes re public comment Jim say yes oh I didn't hear my name sorry yes just reing the public hearing J from zo open public comment ises anybody in the public have any comments on this issue anybody in the room exactly after all of this [Music] discussion St 26 oops excuse me 32 emry Avenue Clemington after all this discussion exactly what am I allowed to comment on no on the on the specific um condition condition Q of the resolution for bless Wellness which which requires how what kind of what it requires what kind of approval they need to receive from R we were very specific in our original language they're asking for it to be more General and that's what we're going to discuss what what we've been discussing and whether we can do that well I just would encourage you to keep in the Forefront of your minds that if you expect to be asked for your response to things by that entity perhaps you want to give them the opportunity for this entity and I think that somebody mentioned about being neighbors and I think that's extremely important I believe um Lo the applicant did test was it test I I lost hopefully you still have it my everything disa one is it if anybody from the public which is in the second screen I don't see any hands no there's only the the council View and two other people no hands are up I don't see any hands up I don't see any hands up so seeing n motion to close the public here second can we take a roll call please alen Mr dashna yes Carol yes Mr yes Miss giin yes Miss whitesman yes Mr Hill yes okay I'm going to move that we adopt the language for commission Q as suggested by the applicants and direct Cara to update the resolution with that change as well as these other minor changes that she had mentioned so that we can vote on the approval of it and meeting next the next session and and so it's clear for the record that language is for condition the applicant shall comply with all applicable buau County and state statutes ordinances and regulations including without limitation obtaining all approvals Andor permits do I have a second for I'll second that yeah can we take the roll call V please Mr Dasha yes Mr cook yes may Carol yes Mr Campion yes Miss gin yes Miss whitesman yes H yes right thank you everyone for their discussion um before I move on to the next item I do want to restate again because I think there are some comments on the online board here um people asking about item 11 public hearing C station LLC gold I'm just restating it again um comment Sitting Waiting that has been um tabled until the April n we move that toil April 9th meeting um no further notice will be given that's for application 20235 L4 L 7 for anybody that may be waiting for that that it's not going to happen tonight it's going to happen on April 99th no further notice will be given thank you um so now we're going to move to item nine resolution Golden Heart homes LLC application 20238 28 847 Maple Avenue are we able to be ready for the next okay have more resolutions next aesome thank you um we already we changed the agenda so item 10 was already taken care of I just made a note about item 11 so we're on item 12 chair item um I accidentally left committees on the agenda I don't have anything more to say about committees today I do want to add in something that I've asked um I to do and Cara has has said confirmed that we there's no reason we can't do this what we're going to do is um currently we have on the website all of the documentation for people to see public for all the applications what we haven't done in the past is added our resolutions to that list of things that are online available privacy and because our resolutions contain these very things these changes that we these conditions conditions thank you um it contains all the conditions which effectively form part of the contract with it's not been available we've had it but the public haven't had it so there's no reason apparently I've checked with Cara that we can't do that and alen there a that we are going to put all the ones where we have currently on the website a link to different projects all the resolutions related to those that we currently have are going to go onto there and be added on for transparency for the public the only thing Madam chair would recommend is that it be the not only the final but the signed one signed it dat sign P all of the reports that are attached to it yeah Point V and yes a as a first point for people to see if they're interested it contains all the reports that were referenced during during the public hearing so then people know where to go look and which one to look for and everything so hopefully that if anybody's interested in the future they will have it right there and no reason not to do there basically so that's one thing we're going to change um and the next me all the way um next meeting is March 2026 regular meeting right now we have chickf if we get papers if we get submission from them we yeah I expect it at any moment they ask that the number of sets to be submitted um we have the resolution for Golden Heart homes we have the review of the Redevelopment plan for Liberty Village um the public hearing for Chick-fil-A depending on submission of new plans we do have we carried the public hearing to for wsv Road properties we should probably keep that on the agenda and then make the announcement because anybody that is from the public was was you know made aware that that would be continued to the 26 we would have to then make that to they are moving to May 14th May May 14th will requested that today and they extended the time to sure okay right yeah yes it did sound like they had the plans uh prepared um they asked um and they were hopefully I'm hoping today or tomorrow tomorrow when well 10 days would be Friday that does not give them a lot of time to review or folks can I jump in uh I need to leave where I'm at and I feel like we're wrapping up the meeting pretty soon so I'm going to jump unless folks unless you want to give me a couple minutes I can call back in I think you're right I don't got anything substantive left unless somebody has a chair item I want to add yeah thank you I I just want to talk about the completeness checklist for one second to put something on car's radar that that when we do that checklist that it includes before an applicant comes before us that their taxes are paid taxes in water and sewer are paid in full and no taxes are that's a stat reement SE yeah actually utilities are are also required but I've been told that nobody checks with f hands as to whether or not the tax so they check with Rebecca I do get um ceric I know but we have we run our own sewer water department and most she does check the utilities as well so just make put it on the checklist because it's not a op clerico item it is a town item maybe we can ask some sort of proof that it happened into the checklist that that specific it will the taxes what our will do and Bob will look at that once it whatever's on that checklist even if it's not something Bob would technically riew it's not there noic not there we'll have a check and balance that way um but we'll put water and sewer I kind of think that all of be thinking about discussion comes up when bring anybody else have anything they want to raise at this um um they came out very pretty late you may have been already I'm sorry Dennis denn Isn yeah I I just want to bring up with all due respect to everyone on the board I'm really concerned that we're not going to have Council comments um you know I think as a class three member um that person is appointed by the council and I don't understand why we wouldn't have may mayor comments as well as Council comments I'm a liaison to the HPC I don't tell people you can just watch the HPC meeting I think it's important to just get the feedback from the council member and I re I respectfully ask you know uh chairwoman that you keep it on the agenda I think it's important thanks I'm an elected official so we can keep on understand that I understand that on the board however the board reports to the elected officials of council not the other way and it's a change in culture that's not true the planning board has its own statutory Authority in state law that's wonderful oh I'm just saying I'm very disappointed I don't understand it and I'm very disappointed it's my opinion we have the opportunity like we said earlier um let me speak to that what if what if mayor Carol and I or if I gave M Carol because we're in the same meeting so last night here's what we talked about women's History Month very long resolution very long resolution and the budget hear that un comments tonight budget uh no planing board was brought up by former planning board member asking if there was why was a Tex to that budget and the answer was because the chair identified that money hadn't been spent for years because it's mostly spent in es but our budget was I mean something as simple as our budget was approved or it was not it has the budget hasn't even been introduced oh okay I wouldn't know that yeah because I don't go to the council meetings per and the reason I don't personally as a resident go to Council meetings is I voted people in to go to the council meeting and the respect of this board to ask there was a time and again it going to sound like a dinosaur we had a board of adjustment that did not talk to the planning board that did not talk to councel and it was vindictive and adversarial anything the council wanted the planning board made sure that they wouldn't get anything the planning board wanted the the board of judgment made sure they wouldn't get and it's just very simple to just and and we put in things like let's just share not everything we don't download meeting it's more of hey guys this is coming down the fight just like when the mayor says you'd be surpris when you say hey you're going to see Liberty Village on such and such a date I see people writing down such such a I'm going to look for it not to say that you wouldn't look for it anyway not it just it adds some level of somebody you know when we look through for 20 years on how to make things more efficient in town it was the three governing bodies that Council the planning board that plan board board of adjustment and the FCP if we were're all in lock step we can get things done if we if we're not in lock step then I don't know what we're all doing I just this is I want to be very clear about this is the council woman's prerogative that she feels that she doesn't need to make reports the state statute on a council member appointment to the planning board is very clear it's one or two sentences it says the council members shall appoint among themselves one of their owns to be a member period it doesn't say Lea on it doesn't say anything like that so you know this is her frog she doesn't want to do it she wants to do it that's fine nobody's making her nobody's twisting her arm nobody said don't do it it's her prerogative on the direction she wants to go I bring things to you guys I can't even count on two hands how many times last year the former Council representative or council member said I was going to say that but the mayor stole my thunder I don't steal anybody's Thunder I'm the mayor so um you know I I'm sorry some of you feel that she's letting you down but she is an elected official who is a member of this board and she has chosen how she wants to represent the council can I ask a question of both of the elected officials in this point um frankly surpris all of you think this is such a big deal honestly because I served in the rare tent plan for for years and the C the committee appointment never ever had a report only the mayor and I sered like watching planning boards all over the medal lands commission I never saw a planning board representative from the from the governing body ever have a report either only one to so my my question is I can ask a question because I'm hearing board members have consternation about it they feel like something is trying to be not not communicated as effectively but when I when I heard what you were saying I was just think thought you were suggesting that to the mayor's point that the council woman last year did often say well the mayor already raised everything I said do we need it's the suggestion that if we take the mayor comments and Council comments and there and one of the wants to go away the implication I feel from people's consternation is that they're not going to hear everything they need to hear from the council and I didn't hear that from it I I heard that between the mayor would give us everything we need to know about that and the suggestion that if the council person doesn't give a report we wouldn't get everything we need to know is that's I think why the elected officials are upset by the comments made is that yes and I and from having listened to the meetings in the prior years or even last year uh the mayor isn't stealing the Thunder but the mayor and I do speak and uh we we both on DPW and we're both on councel nothing I said to was different than what you was going to say right but given that our for government is a mayor plus Council right it's not like rship where the man was drawn from the council would it would it make everyone more comfortable if we for instance had I blended items two and three and called it mayor and Council comments come from both of them I think that's appropriate just I'm just wondering if that would resolve any concerns I'm going to probably say and I'm going to be really clear if it's the exact same comment as mayor Caro that's what I'm going to say you don't need to say it well that's I think that's to her point is what she said at the beginning that was the implication I I got from the the reports were the implication of having two is that the reports would be different and there may have been when there was contentious between Council and Men I guess to your point in the past I don't know I wasn't it wasn't just that more it was more of as a board um you know again I've been here for 20 years I it's really hard to understand everything that's going on and really easy to put things in late person speak not a regurgitation of any meeting but saying things like hey guys we discussed that Project X you're going to see it you don't need to ask about it nobody's keeping anything from you we discussed this not even in an executive session it's just this was discussed last night you can go on it see it yourself but again that's why if it is you're but but now I feel compelled to watch the council meeting to understand if anything that has to do with my role on the planning board is discussed I think the answer is then stays on the agenda and if the council woman has anything she wants to add and while you're talking about this pod I'm thinking wow I should have told all of you that the Arts committee which came out of a suggestion from the master plan actually had their first meeting that's and I didn't even think about um and uh and they met and Hannah was there and Hannah and everybody else turned out being chair and Beth ran the meeting and uh Tony Parker agreed to be chair because nobody else would agree and I don't even know they said another meeting I don't know when to start working on some Five Laws Five Laws yeah well it was just to to again to begin the checklist like making our own checklist like going over that stuff and then yeah Beth was there and she was gracious enough to help us with all that to say that she would help us with the bws and getting all that around and getting giving us an example from other townships that she's worked with um and yeah and it was for March 19th that we're going to have another meeting so I can check back in um or check in with you also um Karen to see if you want to add something or not yeah the council woman knew nothing about that meeting so she couldn't even kick me under the table and say talk about the Arts committee had it could on that you could have keep the end of the table oh yeah yeah I was going to maybe say something at the end but it's work we're because we we still like we we haven't really established anything other than we exactly what you just said that we've had our first meeting and we're we're working on it still nothing's really set yet but we are working on it right now yeah and I do think that there's nothing that applies to any Bo by all means you know no comment no comment that's right just keep it to I'm just thinking to myself like it's up to the individual to seek out the information I mean that for for councilwoman carar to to say something or even the mayor herself I mean I'm here for the planning board just leave it this you know think about it shame on me I mean a lot of the council members on Council mates and the reports talk about the ribbing cuting they went to and how many photo offs they went to I never do it because you know that's my job I don't think it's my job DPW I want to the information information that's that's all I'm trying to draw the logic to so I don't think there's a transparency or a communication or you know one one against look for it that's that's what I [Music] do I watch every video but it's always after the fact and you know they're not on yet from yet last night they're not on they'll be on probably tomorrow so I watch everyone because I always like to know what's going on and they're very helpful but yeah I couldn't wouldn't even know what happened last night so that's why it's always interesting it's not about transparency to me it's just you know if someone has another comment about something Council had a concurrence um to ad a budget with a 2.5% increase get continue to try to get the debt under control and it will be introduced on March 25th March 26th so that's that's the bottom line it's I think it's useful to have had this discussion people have got their thoughts about it out there let's um leave the agenda as it is right now um and let's see moving forward how what how you want to what comments you want to make um thank you everybody for your comments appreciate that so was good to have a good discussion um but wait we now we need to do item 13 which is the bill we did I made a motion already we do have a motion Flor and we have a second so can you call the RO for auditing the bills please sure Mr yes Mr cook yes mayor Carol y Council woman visaro yes Mr Camp abstain this G see they did come out sure Mr Hill yes Miss Whitman yes Mr yes all right item 14 do we have any executive excellent then dotion to adjourn the meeting all in favor thank you good evening Dennis I hope you had cold drinks while you're were watching the show I miss you what you say Jim I hope Dennis had plenty of cold drinks while he was watching the uh uh committee show take care