e e e e e e e so quiet good morning everyone it's nice to see you all here uh this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the local planning Agency for the town of Fort Meers Beach it is Tuesday March 12th 2024 and it is 9:00 a.m. on the dot if you would stand please for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all We Gather here today to do the work of our town to help build a bigger and brighter future for our community uh let us do that in good faith and amen amen Madam chair can you give a roll call please yes I certainly will um could could I welcome John first thank you so as everybody might notice we have a new face sitting at the table with us uh this is John mlan we'll let him introduce your himself to you but we're very happy to have you John so um go ahead tell everybody a little bit about yourself make it short John absolutely we've got a long day ahead of us um it's an honor to join this group of very talented and and experienced people uh I've uh owned property on the island since 2014 full-time resident since mid 20109 uh I've had my entire career in business uh primarily working with Fortune 500 companies in technology and uh I have what I hope is a very faithful representation of the residents and stakeholders on this island so thank you this crazy guy has been at every single meeting I looked up at him one day and I thought what the heck is his deal this just wasn't anyway like many people I lost my home and got very interested in what was going on about this town and I found that that was the best way to understand uh what makes this town tick and I think I've learned enough uh over the last year and a half to to hopefully add some value thanks well welcome welcome okay first it oh roll call Patrick hi uh don suth hi Doug present hard to think Jane CL Jane check Jim Bowen here John McLean here Anita Saras present you have a quorum thank you thank you Nancy the first item on the agenda is an approval of the minutes for the regular meeting of February 13th and the regular meeting of February 27th and if I may have a motion for both of them unless somebody has changes don't move so there's a motion by Don and a second by Jim is there any further any discussion on the motion uh all those in favor say I I thank you very much the next item is public comment so when you all come up for public comment if you're here for a particular case wait until that case if you're here just to say oh Shrimp Festival was wonderful then now is your time so would anybody like to speak right now that isn't here for a case yes sir come on up yes sir cuz you need to be on the mic yeah yeah got hold the roof up we should move it okay want to need these my name is Jim Bowen I reside at 250 Estero Boulevard and I am the HOA board president for Estero Island beach Village in 1984 easements for Beach accesses 41 to 43 were created by genev Davis the wife of the founder the pink shell back then the North End was a cottage community and it created defined accesses through the cottages for the inhabitants since those easements were created with the county with Lee County I wrote to the the director of Parks and Recreation Mark Young and asked excuse me mck young and asked how to vacate a beach access to my surprise I was invited to a meeting at the Lee County offices on February 7th where I met with the county manager Dave Harner the assistant County Manager the County Attorney the director and the deputy director of Parks and Recreation an an impressive group at Mr harner's request I did the talking the county manager simply smiled and at the conclusion he told told me that they as appointed rather than elected officials could do nothing they thanked me for coming I was very disappointed as I was led to believe it would be a worthwhile meeting and it's a tough drive over there in back since I've learned that the town of Fort Meers Beach also has a role regarding uh public beach accesses 41 to 43 I've also learned that our neighbor the pink shell has submitted an 111 page application to Fort Myers Beach to vacate Beach accs 42 recently I sent an email to the mayor the Town Council and LPA members regarding beach access 41 which runs through our building in it was a request that consideration be given to moving 41 from under our building to our property line I did not receive a response our board had a zoom meeting with Bob buen and Bill watus of the pink shell in mid January at their request at their request at the time they told us that they had no plans to build the eight-story structure with over 500 parking spaces right now since they said it more than once I heard it loud and clear someday they do plan to build something and it might include parking for 500 cars currently there is no convenient parking to use beach access 41 when the pink shell does build their large structure The Logical Beach access from their from their garage will be through our building since their three properties are or will be enclosed with fences and Gates finally since it is our understanding that Fort Myers Beach does not wish to vacate Beach accesses we would like Fort Meers Beach and the county to move the location for beach access 41 from under our building to the property line to the north of our property this will eliminate unwanted trespass of our pool bathrooms and potential liability exposure thank you good timing thank you very much Mr Bowen appreci timer yes wow okay it it's darn right friendly isn't it I was in a presal debate thank count your blessings you're not your's the friendlier one though mine is friendlier yeah I know okay um so the next portion of our meeting we have two variances and a special exception these are Quasi judicial hearings and I will let Nancy tell you about quasi judicial hearings thank you madam chair so for um members of the public and the LPA um this is a reminder that the uh land use uh agenda items which the chair has identified are Quasi judicial in nature and this requires that our public hearing today comply with some procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our Land Development code so these quasi judicial proceedings they're going to be less formal than proceedings before a circuit court however they're going to be more formal than the remainder of our meeting and they will follow the basic standards of due process requiring certain notices application of the correct standards and decisions to be made made by the LPA on competent and substantial evidence in either written documents or through oral testimony so when testimony and documents are presented to the LPA they're going to evaluate each item and then draw a conclusion regarding whether a criteria that is established in the development Cod the Land Development code regarding each one of these approvals or in state law has been satisfied so pure speculation or mere opinion that is not based on competent facts is not to be legally considered by the LPA in evaluating whether the criteria has been satisfied um testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area has been considered competent and substantial evidence by the Florida courts as well as testimony by Neighbors and residents who have fact-based information or uh fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or are able to provide testimony based on their personal knowledge and experience so if you intend to speak please keep these these matters in mind and when you come forward state your name clearly for the record whether or not you've been sworn in and your qualifications or your interest in this matter and that way the LPA can determine whether the the weight to give to your testimony hoping that it does satisfy um that it is considered competent substantial evidence under Florida law so um before we get started on these three quasi judicial matters we have some housekeeping matters that we need to take care of and again the reason we're doing this is because these uh proceedings today are Quasi judicial in nature so the first housekeeping item is I need to ask our town clerk whether all the agenda items have been properly advertised for today's meeting yes they have been okay the next housekeeping item is we need to determine whether or not any of our um LPA members have any conflict of interest that would prohibit them under Florida law from voting on a particular matter we do this up front so that way we can determine whether or not we still have a quorum present um when that agenda item comes forward so I will tell you that we have been provided with a voting conflict form that has been F uh signed by Patrick vaness one of our members um and under Florida law he is required to abstain from voting and on this is going to be agenda Item B Florida law though does allow him um to otherwise participate um once the disclosure of the nature of the conflict has been made um with any attempt to influence the decision whether orally or in writing um so in if he attempts to talk through some of the discussion on that item um he has to fill out the form which he has and his form will also be attacked to the minutes of the meeting for um that will be approved by the LPA at the next meeting okay so with all that said on conflicts does anybody else have a conflict regarding any of the three quasi judicial items Don no conflict Doug no conflict Jane I went to rud shmp yesterday and I did speak with the owner but not about the case okay that would be more of an exp parte right um Jim no conflict John no conflict John just as an as side do you care if I just call you by your first name because I tend to be a little that's perfectly fine thank you I have no conflicts at all okay the next housekeeping item is again um a little bit of formality anyone who would like to speak today uh we would like to have you uh sworn in um under oath to assert the uh veracity of your of your testimony so if there's anyone including the applicant and property owner um who intends to provide testimony today if you would please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in if if if you're going to speak at all if any few are going to speak you need to be standing up right now that includes public comment that includes public comment that's correct okay all right all right do you all solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all right all parties have been sworn so any of any of you who have been sworn in that are intending to provide testimony as professionals um either in a in a specific area um at this point it might be beneficial to go ahead and um and advise the LPA so that they can evaluate your credentials uh Cara are you gonna be speaking because Cara Cara Stewart has been um has been deemed a a previously accepted previously that those are the words I was looking for I knew previously accepted as an expert um uh Fred Ken I also believe has been previously accepted as an expert and any Jim Inc has anyone else going to be presenting for a case uh what was your name have we have we ac I don't think we've accepted you I would remember come up here come on you have to be accepted you you you look great for the part so I think you're going to be fine okay go ahead um good morning my name is Morgan hila I'm an attorney with um davies's Duke good morning and I'm presenting for the variant on 718 esta Boulevard excellent and what is your um uh expertise your field of expertise um land use real estate law wonderful U may have a motion to accept um to accept this uh fine woman as a uh this Attorney Patrick please thank you is there a second second and motion by Patrick seconded by Jane is there any objection to the motion you're now officially a an expert thank you thank you and Madam chair for the record also our planning staff has been previously qualified as experts in the area of land use um specifically on Fort Meer speech so okay with that said um the first item on your agenda if you can read the title I certainly will it is resolution 24xx V 2024 0046 718 Estero Boulevard it is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying variance 202 40046 it's requesting a variance from LDC that's the Land Development Code table 34-3 of 15 ft providing a 10t front setback the L the Land Development code requires a single family home in the RM zoning District to provide a minimum 25t Street setback for the property located at 7 718 Estero Boulevard providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date um could I ask if uh anyone has expar communication I'm going to start with you John uh none none Jims none uh I have none Jane none Doug none Don none Patrick none okay all right go ahead Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Community Development Miss hila on behalf of of the owner of 718 Estero is requesting a variance from table 34-3 of 15 ft from the required 25 foot Front Street setback to provide a 10-ft setback from the property line closest to and parallel to a stero Boulevard um in June of 2023 resolution 2365 approved a 25 foot variance for the east side of the property to allow a 5-ft setback however since that approval the developer discovered an error in the location of the cccl on the uh the Coastal Construction Control line on the uh plans due to this error the proposed home will need to shift landward approximately 10 ft in order to stay out of the the environmentally critical zoning District the property is zoned RM and is one of the non-conforming cottage lots that is accessible by a 15t easement 7 1/2 ft of that easement runs along the west side of the subject property the surrounding properties are similarly sized and it is anticipated that many of the homes will either choose the administrative variants allowed for cottage Lots or will need to request variances also the proposed Cottage is larger than the previous Cottage on this parcel therefore the applicant is unable to utilize the cottage code staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here could you just say what you just said again is unable to utilize the cottage code because so the build back code allows the exact same square footage as was previously approved or previously constructed right thank you and Sarah did the staff recommend approval or denial approval okay uh any questions for staff Patrick no Don Doug no ma'am Jam I just want to confirm that these uh plans were already in progress before uh before this change was made or or or they just found the air and that's what brought them back they discovered the error it's the same proposed house but it had to be shifted right okay uh Jim any questions no and how about you John no questions okay thank you very much SAR um to note the applicant is also requesting um a waiver of the fee but I don't believe that that's a decision that the LPA has to weigh in on I believe it's just Council thank you very much okay we'll have the the applicant I love your shoes oh than you um you're not the first one to tell me that this morning okay thank you madam chair and good morning LPA members I'm Morgan hila with the law firm of Davies Duke on behalf of our client 718 Estero regarding the propos OS approval of the variance for the reduction of the front setback from 25 to 10 ft for that property located at 718 Ester Boulevard let's see there we go as you may recall our client had previously appeared before you seeking a variance from the side setbacks on the property which was approved last year following that approval and during the initial development process of the property it was discovered that the cccl line drawn for that variant applic was in the incorrect location when the surveying pins could not be located the surveyor understandably assumed that the markers for the cccl line had been washed away as the result of the effects of hurricane Ian and was directed to use the lines as depicted through the property appraiser site which proved to be incorrect had this justifiable error been discovered prior to the previous application for variance our client would have requested its approval at that time as well um as depicted on the slides our client is committed to maintaining the character of the previous home on the property while making Necessary updates to comply with Ada code and improve the structural Integrity of the home it's important to them that you know that this family has been in possession of the property since the 1960s and want to rebuild to capture the essence of the original structure on the property it's also important to note that the owners adjacent to the property have provided letters of support for the reduction of the variance to 10 ft as you heard from Sarah staff is recommending approval and agrees that we meet the governing variance criteria in the code accordingly we respectfully request your recommendation of approval for the variance to the Town Council thank you thank you Miss hila thank you um any questions for the applicant Doug no ma'am no Jim I have none John okay okay thank you very much Miss hila okay I'll let you come back if you need to say anything else after the public comment okay perect thank you very much I'll open the public comment does anybody care to comment on this case seeing none we'll close the public comment uh any comments from the council would anybody like to make a motion I'll move to approve with I'll second yeah sorry with uh oh sorry I was trying to remember if there were any conditions I don't think there were only need to accompany the other the original 2 and 1/2t setback to accompany the two and 1/2t setback yeah or yes originally because we originally granted a 2 and a half foot yeah yeah so it would it would now be a 10 foot setback if I'm understanding and to accompany the 2 and 1/2t side setback oh and the 2 and 1/2 foot side setback yeah okay second that yes I would second Don's motion okay so the motion is to approve the request yes uh with this accompanying the previous setbacks that were already in place correct thank you very much uh is there any discussion on the motion Don your vote I Doug I Patrick I Jane I don uh Jim I John I Anita M uh motion passes unanimously thank you very much for your presentation next item on the agenda is um resolution 24 XXV r202 40027 for 250 tropical Shores way it is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying variance v204 427 requesting a 4ot variance from section 34 6385 A1 which requires an additional 12 foot of 12T of Street setbacks for residences wider than 65 ft instead of providing an additional 8 ft of Street setback for the property located at 250 tropical Shore ways providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date John do you have any exp parte on this I do not how about you Jim I do not I do not Jane I do not Doug none Don none Patrick this is your I have to recuse myself for this one my uh business partner is representing the applicant thank you okay Mr Mr SMY good morning excuse me good morning LPA members good morning staff uh Jason SMY with your planning and zoning department so as was mentioned uh the request here before you today is to construct a uh a home that would be wider than the 65 ft allowed uh without providing the full 12 additional feet as called for in section 34- 638 D5 A1 so the the applicant is proposing a roughly 90 foot wide structure on what is a 110 ft wide lot they are providing the required 10-ft setbacks and the correct rear setbacks uh the applicant has noted that they went through a couple iterations of design design and this request was the best option that they could come up with without having to uh request perhaps additional setbacks in the rear uh staff is here for any questions that you may have about the code or about the report and the applicant's uh representative is here as well Jason did you um did you approve or or recommend denial of this staff is recommending denial simply because uh the review of the property or excuse me the review of the proposed structure is entirely the design choice of the applicant and we believe that if the structure were reduced uh that it could provide still a usable structure and still meet today's codes thank you very much okay uh questions for Jason anyone no questions thank you very much Jason of course the applicant morning Ken good morning uh Anita chairman fellow board members again uh for the record I'm Ken Gander uh certified planner REM uh and here on behalf of the property owner uh we do have a uh presentation I'd like to hopefully quickly walk through with you all um make sure this works there we go uh just real quick uh the property owner Bradley and Katrina M vo's trust uh I am again uh as part of the neighborhood company and also uh applicant and agents orlandini development Inc what I want to do for this variance uh did a little background review the request and uh go through our findings and conclusions uh based on unfortunately coming through here with a a staff recommendation of denial uh we obviously disagree with that and want to go over our position and opinions on this the subject property uh is a single partial just over a quarter of an acre at the Northern end of tropical Shores way uh north of Estero Boulevard we have it's a mixed use or mixed residential future land use category existing residential uh existing zoning is the residential conservation uh the property is currently vacant uh this is result of uh the events of uh hurricane Ian the uh structure was significantly damaged and thus uh had to be demolished the surrounding uses uh we obviously have tropical Shores right of way there are vacant and occupied residential structures and land uh as well as the canal this uh slide provides a aerial representation or AA view of where the location of the property is again at the Northern end of uh tropical Shores way so again uh the portion of LDC section 34 638 D5 A1 uh requires and this is the last portion of uh the regulation any portion of the structure exceeding 65 ft in width shall be set back an additional 12 ft this would Encompass then a 37 ft front setback from the RightWay line our request is a 4ft variant from that 12T thus providing for an additional 8T setback providing uh a significant 33 ft front setback the reason for our request is basically as the foundation is the result of this catastrophic damage uh from Ian and the need to rebuild uh the property owner's home uh the home was designed one-of-a kind unique architecture uh tending to meet all the development standards and there's no intent to have to seek this variance but during the review of the submittal documents the construction plans the architectural plans structural plans it was found that a small portion of the structure did not meet that 12T additional setback it was meeting the 8 foot so the property owner and uh the uh contractor they evaluated how to move forward with this and they were finding it was just a significant uh effort to design or redesign uh the architectural plans the structural plans uh to uh move the structure uh it would be added costs added delays in order for them to try and get in back into their home uh so what I want to do here uh this was part of your uh submittal packet and this identifies and hopefully you can all see um that we have representated represented on this Slide the 25 ft setback line then additionally we have and I don't know if this shows up on TVs it doesn't uh it's okay honey the 37t setback that would provide for the 12T additional uh requirement for Those portions of the building or structure 65 ft in width and then we identify the 33 setback line which would be application of our desired 4ot variants what I've done is just highlighted this just a little uh more clearly for you uh the red dash line is the 25- Ft setback orange would be the 37 ft what we're looking at here then is I've added uh the green line which identifies that 4ot separation or the 4ot uh difference from the 12T and you can see highlighted in yellow that's the portion of the structure that we're uh concerned with that is the uh elements that uh have been affected by this uh request and you can see in our opinion that it's a very minimal aspect of the structure and thus looking at this is considered di Minimus from the strict application of the standard an intent to reduce uh the idea for this standard is to reduce the massing or the Orient uh the aspects of the front of that building um with no architectural relief and the tent to provide for this variation in the facade through this additional setback in our opinion has been met even though it's a small portion that's only 4 ft this is a basically a 10% reduction from the 37 ft down to 33 ft where our opinion is the building still or the home still provides visual interest through the variation of the front facades the setback of the portions of the building thus providing even varied roof lines that uh provide for a very unique and appropriately uh designed home thus it takes us to what the home is uh designed to look like looking at this uh you can see the varied roof lines you can see some of the fenestration unfortunately it's being black and white it's hard to differentiate so what I've done is this is the portion that was highlighted in yellow that is the portion of the structure that is set back 8 ft uh rather than the required 12 ft and you can see that again it is a a DI Minimus level of uh aspect of the overall front facade in our opinion it still achieves the extensive architectural variations expected uh of the Town standard uh with the 8 foot additional setbacks the next slides are the side elevations yes ma'am can can I ask you just go to go back to that so you're saying that those yellow pieces there are the that is the variance that you're requesting it's that's the intrusion that's that's the aspect of looking at the front of the building that is the portion that's set back 8 ft not the um standard requ was clear when I was when I looked at it's clear there okay thank you so much this uh the next two slides are the side elevations uh this just simply represents you can't tell because Those portions of that portion that we're looking at is set back within the sides or within the elements of the structure so just going through uh the criteria just real quick uh our position is that exceptional exceptional circumstances and conditions were present uh due to the impacts of uh Ian on the home as previously described we're looking at a 4 foot reduction that's a 10% reduction from the 37 ft to the 33 ft if you were to take the rigid compliance of the standards uh we don't uh believe our request for four feet uh negatively impacts the public safety health safety and Welfare and there's likely numerous homes throughout uh the island uh that meet uh don't meet the intent of this and have been unknown or not known to uh cause any public uh negative effects additionally uh again the exceptional or extraordinary conditions uh due to the impacts of Ian are resulting are not the result of the property owner or the homeowner regarding uh criteria three our opinion is the requested variance of four is the minimum uh to help the homeowner rebuild and enjoy their home again we walk through the request again it's a minimal it's unnoticeable except when scrutinized and laid down on a scaled piece of paper to verify that uh the home is architecturally varied uh providing the details and elements and the recess portions uh meeting the intent of the code uh we feel that uh the home has achieved this desired outcome for this standard uh regarding four granted the variants will not be injured to the surrounding neighborhoods we have uh determined that there have been no input from the surrounding neighbors of any concern with this it's again an un unnoticeable portion of being a 4ot DI Minimus area the standard was adopted really uh not like other setback requirements of ensuring nuisance uses or other um structures for public health safety and Welfare uh the standard is really for an aesthetic component which again we believe are being met uh just moving forward uh as our opinion we're consistent with the Land Development code application requirement and we respectfully request some recommendation uh by the LPA that the Town Council approve uh the variants as submitted and presented and certainly be happy to answer any questions or help walk through uh our presentation some more with you so thank you thank you very much Ken uh any questions for the applicant no so the stairs don't need to be considered in the um variance our determination is not that has not is that portion of the building that we highlighted uh in this section anything else Jan Jim John any questions yeah I have a question as to the uh timing of the ordinance it seems like there was a disconnect of about a year between what you thought the original ordinance was versus what was passed did you that our our understanding but what we've further researched and come up to this point is that this standard was in place uh but there were other amendments done uh subsequent to that to that section of the code but this was in place uh at the time of before the permit was issued permit was long time massing of these larger houses we talk and I remember the very helpful diagram to explain what the had to be in that's right that's right a lot of work was done to come up with this but unfortunately we're we're seeking minor variance to that thank you very much Ken thank you appreciate it uh is there any anyone who wishes to make public comment on this case no one we'll close the public comment are there any further questions or any comments to the applicant or to staff none uh anybody just have anything to say about this or would somebody like to make a motion I I have a question sometimes early in here but um so there's a comment that staff recognizes changes of the code could provide additional flexibility um obviously what we're talking about here is something that as was mentioned was around the architectural detail and providing variability of the you know we don't want single facades that are just great blocks um is there uh should we be looking at the ordinance to provide some flexibility as opposed to requiring a variance for something that I I would suggest would not be some something you would notice uh walking down the street you know let's have let's have Sarah or Jason answer that [Laughter] question good morning Sarah propes good morning sir um so we are looking at just jump um we are looking at some changes to the code when we do the Land Development code update we recognize that um some of the language that was adopted having to do with with height with um structural changes with uh massing there could be flexibility included in the code uh so we're going to be looking at that when we go through the Land Development code update I mean because what it's important I think not to have things look like boxes and yet it is a choice of the Builder to pick this plan um and not fit into the vacant lot that it is but um you know I think that we should be stressing that architectural design is an important issue that we would like to see here on the island not just a a great big box yeah I'd like to SEC second that just because they're um a lot of the structures will be a big box and if you if you do things aesthetically like a porch uh which I've talked to you know Jason about if you you can do things that aesthetically like they did in this house I mean this house I think looks uh great I mean I think the design is and and part of the reason it looks great is because of that uh that stepping out so and I even like the way they turn the steps around the other way so did just encourage people to to think about all lot of deviation it's exactly what we're looking for and so oh everyone loves this okay you know what that motion will be all right Madam chair if I could just uh comment after the vote is taken please I do have personal opinions I'm sure you do Patrick all right uh thank you very much Sarah um may I have a motion to approve the request for um there was n there was none I did call it uh a motion to approve um uh findings with the findings and conclusions for LDC section 3487 and the staff recommendations are conditions for approval so move suth thanks for that was prepped so motion by uh Mr suth and seconded by Mr bone is there any further discussion on the motion uh hearing none uh your vote Don Jim I John I Jane I uh Doug I and I vote uh in favor as well uh Patrick has recused himself from this vote motion carries unanimously thank you very much uh yes ju just a quick comment when we looked at that section few months ago I think there was a brief discussion about this the articulation of the buildings and the additional setbacks um at the time I I I think I expressed that I I felt that the the additional recess of 12T was somewhat arbitrary meaning that you know there's a certain there's a certain intent and the intent is to break up those facades and provide visual interest um can that be achieved with less than 12 feet I believe so um my firm is currently working on uh architectural guidelines for local community and even for much larger buildings the biggest um additional setback that we're proposing is 10 ft so in looking and and we've looked at other communities uh across the state in trying to make that assessment of what it should be and and again 12 is is significant especially for a single family home so um I do encourage staff to bring that back to us at some point and make a note of this this is definitely a section that we could look at and maybe make a change to this thank you Jane um what I'd also like to add to that for staff to look at is that possibly a percentage of the frontage or something like that so it's not like you know four sections going across where it's in and out but a percentage wherever they choose to do it so that it's not just a whole another front getting less um setback so that would be important to me at least I know I've said this before but I'm going to say it again I appreciate your presentations Ken I mean they're just they're very clear hudos to you too Patrick okay uh you're welcome Madam chair before we before we start with the next one can everyone pull their mics just a little bit closer to themselves and make sure the little fuzzy thing's poed out your mouth the little fuzzy thing anyone specific so so techn everybody's too far away everyone's too far away okay is this better uh better I'm getting a thumbs up it's better okay uh Jane You' got yours close enough okay all right ready um we're not getting close okay what it seems you've all been waiting for the next uh the next case on the docket here is resolution 24xx s cz202 30302 450 Harbor Court um a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying uh special exception s202 30302 is requesting consumption on premises for a restaurant with a bar cocktail lounge that is visible from the exterior of the restaurant per section 34-1 264 B2 A3 for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date okay does anyone have exp parte Communications on this how about you John I do not Jim I do not I do not Jane I just went yesterday to hear music and I spoke to the uh owner but we didn't discuss the case okay how about you Doug uh no ma'am Don none for me Patrick um been to the site I spoke to the owner um when this was first before us I briefly spoke to Cara Stewart uh this morning about the issue and I've talked to some of my uh fellow residents and Neighbors about the issue uh you know I'm going to uh take back my yes I I received um a couple of messages about this there was a bunch of social media about this case and we do have quite a few uh letters here uh that have been given to us just for the record okay Sarah um Madame chair if I may um so several of you have made some disclosures um any of those exp parte contacts have they put you in a position where you cannot fairly and equitably adjudicate this particular matter do you have any absolutely not no okay thank you Patrick no Jane nope okay go right ahead Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Community Development Lisa L applicant and applicant and Freeland Florida Holdings LLC property owner are applying for a special exception to allow for consumption on premises for a restaurant with a bar visible from the exterior of the restaurant section 34264 B2 A3 allows a restaurant allows restaurants with 50% of sales from food to have a bar however the bar may not be visible from the exterior of the restaurant the rude Shimp restaurant is constructed of a storage container and is completely Outdoors so the bar is visible from the exterior therefore the bar at rude shrimp requires special exception approval to operate the property is zoned commercial Marina which allows Marina accessory uses the code defines Marina accessory uses as uses normally ancillary and subordinate to a marina including but not limited to boat dealers sales of marine fuel and lubricants marine supplies boat motors boat parts restaurant or refreshment facilities boat rental minor boat rigging boat repair and services and motor repair the original application for rud shrimp restaurant temporary permit was approved on June 8th 2023 in November planning staff was made aware that an outdoor bar was at this location staff has suggested seven conditions of approval if the LPA chooses to recommend approval for this request these are the same conditions that were applied to the to the beached whale special exception for the outdoor bar staff has received several letters of OB jection objection and letters of approval I believe the LPA has all of those also staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here thank you very much Sarah are there any questions for Sarah at this moment yes Jane so your reasoning for denial is that because the zoning isn't on the property for these um uses no um the reason for denial so there are sorry um there are several criteria that we're supposed to look at um findings and conclusions found in section 34- 88 um the point that I felt that may not meet was uh regarding whether the whether the request will be compatible with existing or planned uses and not cause damage Hazard nuisance or other death detent to persons or property at this point we've received a bundle of complaints so there is a concern that this could cause a detriment staff does not live in this location so we're not able to determine that for ourselves however we have had complaints therefore we lean on the side of caution and that's our recommendation however s are the complaints almost are the complaints uh sound driven the vast majority yes uh I'm not through with my question um so the Marina has Zoning for outside entertainment and GOP it has zoning of uh commercial Marina and that allows Marina accessory uses as long as a marina exists in that location a restaurant was approved in that location restaurants so a restaurant would be allowed in that location a restaurant can have a bar if 50% of the sales are from food however and they wouldn't require a cop except that the bar is visible from the exterior of the restaurant therefore they're required to get the cop special exception and do you know that whether they meet the 50% food I do not know we have not been provided that but that's that's a state that's a state managed element of their of their permits anyhow the town doesn't manage that that is there are some communities that choose to uh audit regularly but uh Fort Meers beach has not done so okay anything else Jan not right now anybody else have questions for Sarah Don Patrick nobody Madam chair um our planner she mentioned that there were seven conditions that should you go with an approval for the benefit of the public it might be beneficial to go ahead and um put those out so everyone is aware of them um I have them right here um conditions of approval approval of this special exception does not give the applicant an undeniable right or permit approval development or Redevelopment of the property must comply with all applicable requirements of the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan and Land Development code in effect at the time of permit approval except a specifically modified herein lighting must be downwardly downward directed maybe I could just make this a little bigger downward directed shielded and may not glare off of the property the special exception to allow an outdoor bar shall be temporary for a period of 6 months from the date of this resolution or until construction of a new building has begun whichever happens first live music is allowed on 450 Harbor Court but drums are not allowed as part of the entertainment Amplified music is allowed on 450 Harbor Court until 6:30 p.m. Sunday through Thursday after which Amplified music May not be louder than 65 DB as long as the other conditions of approval are upheld Amplified music is allowed on 450 Harbor Court on Friday and Saturday and will be controlled by the town's noise ordinance Land Development code section 14-23 table 1 as long as the other conditions of approval are upheld the variance La this is the last one the variance shall only apply to the lot as shown on the provided site plan the end uh does the Friday and Saturday have a 6:30 no it's only only uh governed by the noise ordinance it doesn't have a 6:30 these are the same conditions that were on the whale the the sound ones yes um uh the lighting one is a a different um condition not found in the whale I don't believe okay thank you very much Sarah thank you um would the applicant like to um make their presentation good morning good morning I have an exhibit I would like to pass out to you all quick before I get started thank you you bet thank you thanks thank you thank you yes she needs one for sure this is Cozier okay can you hear me okay yes ma'am all right good morning my name is Lisa laners I'm the applicant and owner representing the rude Shrimp Company located at 450 Harbor Court Unit 1 and tenant at Moss Marina I'm here today to request a special exception for consumption on premise to allow a bar and cocktail lounge and live amp Amplified music I want to assure you our establishment is thoughtfully positioned away from schools churches daycare centers and parks and the strict adherence to section 342 which permits the operation of a restaurant and bar within the Marina's accessory uses I'd also like to add that as of yesterday we've uh hired and engaged with an outside consultant Cara Stewart uh to assist us with the application and process to come into compliance for the special acception request Cara's first reaction was can we ask for a continuance but due to the sensitivity um and the neighbor concerns uh I will engage her assistance as we move forward to present to Town Council um continuing on we've um already I'm sorry additionally our bar and cocktail lounge is not visible from the public streets or residences where you can see an exhibit a it all faces the Back Bay Waters and Moss Marina parking lot we've already been proactive in opening a dialogue with our neighbors ensuring our operations blend seamlessly into their lives a commitment we intend to keep as long as we call 450 Harbor Court our home we've also adjusted where our live music is being played from we originally had our musicians playing from our small stage that faces our patio area of the restaurant C exhibit B after a meeting with the resident of 725 mananas court and our landlord on February 11th we agreed to to work with them to find a solution that addressed their noise concerns for the residents request we moov the musicians to the end Corner area of the red shipping container with the musicians facing opposite of their property and playing towards the mananas bridge C Exhibit C based on the feedback uh of this resident that was not the best solution we again moved our mus musicians to play in the corner where the black and red shipping containers meet with the musicians facing our patio and playing towards the water and mananas Bridge C exhibit d by moving the musicians to this corner we had to remove four Revenue generating seat seats which does add up week over week we check in weekly with this resident to ensure that there are no no issues with the music sound levels and update them on activities that we are hosting or being a part of that may cause an increase in sound and activity on the property the resident of 429 Harbor Court also stopped in a few weeks ago and stated that he was now okay with how the m music sounded from his property since the musicians were moved to their current spot the new location seems to be working well for everyone on the flip side I've had residents from antanas Court Harbor Court and Bonita Street ask if we could turn up the music as they like to hear it and can't hear it now from their properties which of course we do not do several residents from all three of these streets are also regulars and continue to thank us for providing an establishment they can walk to and enjoy to date all musicians are playing in this corner and we conduct decel readings daily to ensure that the music isn't too loud near mantanza Court Harbor Court and Bonita Street deciel readings aren't always the answer though as midam chair Saras commented a few weeks ago what might be lowed to you isn't loud to me so we also walk the perimeter of these three areas to ensure the music isn't echoing on a windy day or too loud L lcso has been called regarding music by music complaints by a resident and to date we have never been cited for a violation of loud music additionally we purchased and put up a privacy wall and plants along the backs side of the red shipping container to soften any sound and enclose our open space c exhibit e our current operating hours are Monday 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and Tuesday through Sunday 11: to 9:00 p.m. we do have live music every day it's a part of our business model and is what attracts and keeps new and old customers around there have been some inaccurate statements at a few meetings as we do not play music all day every day and we are not open past 900 pm. our music consists of single and Duo acoustic and Amplified musicians please see exhibit f for our current music schedule this schedule will be scaled back as will our operating hours as the season comes to an end Ian did a number on all of us some of you may or may not know our story of how we ended up calling Fort Meers Beach our home I'm sharing this with you as I want you all to know our journey our perspective as well as our love for the commit love for and commitment to this community which has become our family I'll try to keep it short my husband TJ and I reloc relocated from waterl Nebraska to FMB in January of 2022 with hearts full of Hope and excitement we bought out and took over the former a of iceberger located at 1365 at stero Boulevard launching the rude shrimpy almost 2 years ago to this very day we caught the tail end of season and scrap by to get through our first summer we quickly fell in love with the community and knew we had made the right choice and move forward with the energy and enthusiasm of entering into our first real season and full year of business on the beach then September 28th came and turned our world upside down we Face the kind of loss that reshapes your entire existence losing nearly all of our possessions but thankfully we still had each other our dog Maui a car and a few days worth of clo what I once thought was a challenge of a lifetime re relocating and starting a new PED in comparison to rebuilding in the aftermath of Ian as everyone of you knows unfortunately All Too Well processing and rebuilding postan has been quite an overwhelming task not only personally but for our business we rallied and put a plan together to rebuild at our original location and we're back open in early January of 2023 we were fortunate enough to bring back most of our crew and were one of the first few businesses to open and provide a place for hot food cold drinks and a sense of community and normaly admidst the chaos as a year progressed we we encountered new hurdles from property lines to structural limits and the number of structures allowed on our least property we started searching for a new home that would allow us the space to set up and operate properly along with the potential of a longer term opportunity and plan to eventually move into a brick and mortar at 450 Harbor Court we relocated and rebuilt the business for a third time in a little over a year mind you to Moss Marina in June of 2023 prior to the move we worked alongside with our landlords and Engineering consultant and the town to ensure that the property was zoned appropriately and would allow us to operate within our means again as you all know summer was brutal for our Island and like others we hung on by a thread hoping for a prosperous new year and somewhat normal season approaching we were hit with with cooler temps and rain for the first 6 to 8 weeks of 2024 Mother Nature has not been kind to us but despite the trials we've clung to Hope booed by the return of our community and visitors alike today's season is here the people are back and the island is busy it's what we all have been working so hard for while our future here at Moss or even on Fort Meers Beach is still unknown here we stand a testament to perseverance embodying the spirit of The Little Engine That Could operate out of our current setup isn't easy the business is weather dependent weax storage space and we could desperately use a real kitchen we can't wait for the day to move back into a brick and mortar I ask you today not just for a special exception but for the opportunity to keep fueling the vibrant eclectic vibe that defines Fort Meers Beach we aim to continue offering jobs and a welcoming space for Locos and tourists to gather make memories and cherish the unique charm of our Island I also want to highlight our commitment to the community through our support and sponsorship of every event hosted by the Island's Charities and nonprofit organizations even amidst the financial hardships we faced we have been there and we will continue to be here for our beloved Fort Meers Beach family thank you for considering our request for your time and for your service to our community you okay all right thank you very much I got a question questions Lisa I me Jane um so this is a six-month you know permit or whatever that's what the conditions is stating yes right and my question is is what is your plans in 6 months if MOS Marina has not moved forward and has no plans to incorporate you into something brick and mor there sure so I'm not certain that six months really gives us enough time to start construction or permits as you know right um given the um landlords at Moss haven't received approval for the Arches um so in parallel we're um continuing to look for other properties um both on island and off Island that we could potentially move to if this doesn't all pan out but you know we move to the marina with the intent of hoping to be a brick and mortar in the Arches um rather than our current setup okay and um so you'll have to have some kind of plan before the 6 months sure um and what the possibility of either removing the stage that does face the other way or putting incorporating that stage into the location where you have your entertainment I don't think that the current stage that we have built would fit in that corner it's a pretty tight Corner as it is as you noticed yesterday so we'd probably just leave the stage um we the way that we have the outdoor patio lights which are just soft glow um lights right um probably just leave it there and um if we ever need a spot for storage or someone just to sit for out of seats maybe but um we'd probably just continue to keep the musicians where they're at it seems to be working well okay can you would you agree not to use that stage for entertainment yes as a condition okay and um I I went yesterday basically to um hear the music myself walk around the building I had guests with me and I had them uh I didn't tell them anything about this variance and I just asked them to walk around the building building and after we had something to eat um on the way home I just asked them what their thought process of the whole thing was and uh they they thought it was very cute they didn't think the music was too loud and um they would go back um they did think that you know it was a lot of congestion in the back of looking into your you know restaurants and bath you know all that buildings back there but you know I just wanted to make that comment but I think the the condition the the issue basically being the noise which is the biggest complaint and you're you've had meetings with the neighbors and and and feel like you've come to a better um situation there yes and do you have drums in any of bands um we've had a steel drummer he was there yesterday but um as you know it's very quiet you can't hear it from even U Back on the floating Docks but other than that no we I we're smaller um single Duo acoustic and Amplified um we're not having five piece heavy metal bands and that's that will never be part of our our music plan and was that what you had before that was causing the problem no we have never had anything like that so you've just adjusted your music location yeah and your location okay that's my question Lisa if you have if you have acoustic and um other type of music um uh why don't you just have acoustic why don't you eliminate the Amplified I'm curious um because our customers like a mix of both um some of the musicians that we have that are local Island musicians aren't just acoustic um it is even with the Amplified music I've I've gotten a lot of complaints recently from customers saying they can't hear the musicians playing because it's too quiet but we have done that to mitigate the noise concerns with a nearby residence and um as I mentioned I walk around daily during any new musician not new but any musician we have a consistent schedule of musicians so I don't bring really anyone new in that um will give us some um and would potentially give us any uh noise issues so it's just a nice it's nice to have a mix of both okay uh other questions for the applicant Patrick Lisa have you looked at the uh conditions in the staff report that they're recommending yep and um I think we talked about the 6 months but um I'm thinking if I recall the whale had to come back to us within 6 months it wasn't a hard and fast uh it ends after 6 months it was let's let's revisit this in 6 months see if you guys have honored your commitments and and extend it if we can at that point so can you live with u with the conditions in there or do you have changes that you'd like to recommend um if so I think we we'd like to to hear that CU we're going to certainly go into that discussion uh before the end of the meeting um I guess just to your point Patrick that six month um which is ordinance or I guess bullet point number what three um I would like to have that ability like the whale had to have um a review um you know our current permit um has us for the structure for our establishment through um September 23rd of 2025 and I know that's also up for discussion just in general for for the whole town so I would like to have that ability to have a review to um potentially allow us to continue as is at least through our permits and the mobile businesses being allowed on the beach and until we can um hopefully have a um master plan of a brick and mortar Andor our next move of whatever however thing shakes out any other questions Don just a quick question um I love what you guys have done with the shipping containers just curious what would you uh do in a storm situation cuz you know if you've got a trailer or a truck you can kind of pull it off or drive it off but you guys have a little different situation sure um so as you know uh conx boxes and shipping containers are um hurricane rated for over around 180 mph winds um given they are strapped appropriately but we um when we made our move over to MOS Marina we purchased uh two trailers that the containers um were placed on to to make that move so um they're still sitting in our driveway at home and uh we still have them so again just like we made the move to Moss we could hire our contractor with the crane and get them loaded up um in due time and then the the mobile the food truck's mobile and it's on Wheels so thank you you're welcome that is a question aren't all all containers supposed to be mobile with wheels yes they are yeah and how has that not been addressed by St that's I was it was it has it has been I know Tom at Lola had to have a plan submitted with his okay do you have a plan submitted to the town should we have a hurricane yeah we've we've discussed one um it's probably needs some more formalities around it but as I mentioned what we purchase the trailers I have the contractor local contractor that um I can call to have uh everything facilitated and removed as needed yeah I just I think we just need to you know if that's something we want to put in the in the um condition we need to give some parameters around it right I mean every uh every storm doesn't might might stir up but not come to Fort Meers Beach I think laas is if there isn't order for evacuation that's yeah that's what I think yeah yeah any other questions for the applicant John Jim no not this time okay Lisa thank you very much thank you we'll open it up to public comment um folks you need to say your name first and you have uh 3 minutes that's when Amy's lovely buzzer will go off um so who's first Amy all right first up I have Lindsay oara I'm sorry if I mispronounced that Lindsay after Lindsay will be John Samuelson okay so John be ready when Lindsay steps down good morning short hello hi my name is Lindsay um I've been working for Rouge shrimp for about six to seven months now right so I work two jobs on island I've been here 16 years uh in the same spot same house same everything so I've seen this island go through a lot of different changes and I've had a few in that time but the rou shrimp owners are so nice and so great to the community that I've never worked for anybody who actually cares about Fort Meers Beach or the employees like they do and I've worked at uh the Big M Casino was my first job when I moved here so believe me I've been around and seen a lot of people but they are fantastic and they do everything for Fort Meers Beach school they help out like when during Ian they were giving people extra money when they didn't even have it to help them out their employees to help them me I'd have been like oh sorry I only got last 20 bucks in my pocket I'm keeping that no Lisa's like here's your here's my last 20 go do something help have fun so they're I think they're a great asset and a great new thing to Fort Meers Beach not just like all the old places that have been here or stuck in their ways and we're moving forward on Fort Meers Beach but I feel like the residents have to understand that it's not going to stay the same either for them either so if we all have to change they have to start changing also this isn't Santa Belle where we shut down at 6 p.m. this is Fort Meers Beach where people come make friends and family and move here for that reason so I just feel like the community needs to know that they're great people and I love working for the rude shrimp I actually work two jobs trying to get back from Ian everything we've lost so I'm working seven days a week two different jobs and they've been the best ever and I just feel like the community and neighbors around us need to give us a break for a minute and let them breathe they they keep getting knocked down they keep coming back because they love it here like so many other people do so yes uh ofie era yep oh and I'm the rude shrimp mascot because that's me yeah sure uh John okay now uh yes sir you're next Amy who's after John after John will be Emily Samuelson okay like you just said I am John Samuelson I live on the uh meanza Court I'm uh probably two locks away from uh the root shrimp um when I came when I I've been on well I'll State how long I've been on the island I've been on the island 24 or five years uh the last 13 I've been on mantanza and we bought on mantanza mainly because it it's one of the most protected neighborhoods on the island it's an R rated which have certain zones owning restrictions and we have to comply to but we also expect the planners in this town to acknowledge we exist and then we have rights we have entitlement to quiet enjoyment of our property I think that's a legal term my understanding when I first got to the island uh the noise level was incredibly I could sit in my living room um two houses away from and I could hear distinctly the music um whether it was singing whether it was whatever I like music I think we all like music I'm not against music but I'm also there for the quietness of the quaintness of the island now I don't consider Island Liv totally party life like some here do maybe I I don't know I'm not saying what your choices are but if I want a party I can go someplace I can get in my car or I can go walk I think what's happened here is these I know they sound like saints that own this rude shrimp but I have evidence that that Saint Hood isn't quite as saintly as they're making out to be I find him very um from what my discussions with my neighbor I said to him one time I says how do you take it I mean it drives me nuts what is it doing to you cuz they're right there and he was distraught I said well what have you done well I keep calling I wrote a letter you have it in your file he's written letters and complaints they never once reached out to talk to us they were more belligerent uh an example that belligerence is if you see the sign careful mm get a life fail I call that's one of the name yeah and can you leave that with um but I'm going to give you one more minute because you've been do up here but your time is up go ahead to me that's arrogance and that's bullying at its height you're bullying your neighbor rather than reaching out and talking to him in a civilized way say we have a problem with this they just ignored I know they're on good behavior now they've moved apparently from what you're saying but I don't know if that area close to an our residence needs another Tavern there's plenty of taverns just a block away to service those who have um there's plenty of Music on the island about every restaurant has a place so it isn't a lack of opportunity let's do it in a quality way so anyway that's thank you sir I appreciate your comments who is next Amy um Emily Samuelson and after Miss Samuelson is Nick Becker Nick Becker good morning Miss Sam good morning I'm Emily Samuelson the other half of the man who was just here but what I'd like to add is I appreciate what uh she had shared but I would my concern is trusting that it stays happening or trusting that it's enforced trusting that people will interact when we have a complaint and we'll actually do something that's my big concern is I have lost my trust I mean I'm a very I like peace I like making resolutions and when things take so long to happen then it makes me lose trust that it can be sustained and still will happen thank you thank you very much Miss Samuelson okay Nick um Becker and after Nick is James Inc Mr Becker and after Mr Becker Jim Inc you'll be up hello everyone how we doing today good fine thank you good so my name is Nick I'm the owner of Cru say your last name for the Becker c k so I'm the owner of Cru and tiis Fort Meers Beach I actually happen to be probably one of their closest neighbors we operate right with moss Marina right on their docks there um I'm on premise probably five to six times a week uh we do Charters out there we probably typically do three to four Charters uh we take people out of the water um come on back so not about M it's about what they have going on today so um I had the pleasure of starting to to meet them back in June when I also found a new location from my business uh after Hurricane Ian we've all you know we've all been through the same you know troubles and stuff like that so I just want to show my support for TJ and Lisa and all the other employees at rud shrimp um being somebody that does sun set Charters and is is you know on the on property about as much as they are um I can confidently say that I can very rarely hear their music as I approach the docks um and that's you know again with with people on the people on the boat and everything like that so um it does sound like they've made some some great efforts to um appease their neighbors with with changing the location of the music and um pointing the music towards the water and again I'm I'm I'm by far probably their closest neighbor there um I've never would never describe the music as too loud or out of control it's 90% tropical music soft tones you know nothing nothing harsh no no electric guitars no Metallica solos it's very you know it's very very easy listening music stuff that you'd expect to hear in the ambience on an island um especially at Marina um and again not to you know they don't need their horn you know they're not up here toting their horns but I will I've watched them um do Charities with Fort Meers Beach strong Fort Meers Beach school PTO um the association uh the women's associations um and they continue to thrive and bring a very welcome feeling back to the beach uh TJ and Lease are examples of what small business owner should strive to be their effort they put in the community should be awarded um awarded and instead of looked under a microscope if every island every small business on the island was operating by TJ and Lisa we'd be back together in months instead of years so again I I'm happy to be there you know again I've never would never consider their music um you know as as it's been described um it's always been a very very soft very tropical music they also employ you 15 people and also so um the string of local bands um is another show of how they are helping the community by by keeping these people working in a time that everybody can be using work and needing money and stuff like that so I'm happy to be there again my business is also greatly affected by theirs cuz a lot of people see our boats on their property and we're we're another member of moss Marina right there so I want to speak on behalf of them so thank you very much Mr Decker appreciate your comments you guys Jim Inc Jim will be Bob grabo gra gra grao good morning Jim good morning for the record Jim ank Inc engineering I am representing Freeland Holdings as the board is well aware we have Arch's Bayfront project that we're trying to get through entitlements we had hoped to be here by now but we're not quite satisfied with staff and us are not quite in agreement right now yet so we hope to be here soon with that as part of that we're kind of in that transition after the storm of Devastation to what we're going to be when we come out of this and we're in this situation root shrimp was part of that the Bayfront is real real important to the residents to be able to come and visit having rud shrimp there is part of that we also have the Coast Guard there hopefully they're going to move out very soon I think they have the ribbon cutting later this week or early next week and then that allows us to go to the next phase of the marina we have permitted to bring in some more dry Stacks so we can be some more boats but we like rud shrimp being there we think they're good tenants they think they have the right attitude we did become aware of some difficulties back at LPA I think you'll remember month and a half two months ago where a resident complained we got with the tenant we talked with the tenant we came up with an idea of how to address it better that's where the stages and everything started moving around so we feel like we're in this I call it simply the messy period things aren't quite the way they should be we have not quite the way land of elment code is we have trucks that are on properties it may or may not should be there on other pieces of properties but we're just trying to feel our way to the next step we feel that this request is appropriate and would be good for the town to continue rude shrimp and allow people to come down and enjoy the Bayfront thank you thank you very much Jim okay Bob gybo and after uh just Just for future reference we don't allow clapping I know that's might be news but we don't so because you know be very careful after Mr gybo will'll be Hennessy good morning Mr greo yes my name is Bob gryo um I am arguably my wife and I the closest neighbor to Rude shrimp we have a boat in slip A1 and we live on it 24/7 and that music does not affect us in any way shape or form in fact I think it's a plus we've been at Moss Marina for a number of seasons and having that restaurant there has made it wonderful the music is good it's tasteful there's no like he said no screaming guitars and you can even sit on their patio and converse that's what you need in a restaurant and it's not too loud to converse So Lisa and TJ have followed all the rules we see them out there with their noise meters checking the decb all around and so far being 50 ft from their stage maybe 100 feet it still doesn't bother us nor any of the other people in the marina have mentioned that I'll make one more point the big house that is probably their closest neighbor has been totally empty this entire season not a one week they had a family in there and they made more noise than the rude shrimp did so thank you I will take up no more of your thank you Mr gyo appreciate your comments um Christy Hennessy after Miss Hennessy will be hoe Hoffman Howie Hoffman that's a good name Howie Hoffman we're very quiet people my husband and I we don't like say your name I know who you are christe Hennessy um my husband and I are very quiet people and we don't like loud noise people love the cottage and we love that people loved the cottage it was too loud it was too crowded it was too music's too loud it wasn't our music we loved that you know that it was there um we stopped enjoying bars a long time ago especially bars with drunk people it's just not our thing that being said there isn't currently a bar on the beach we're against and we're happy they're here um I just wish the CBD truck had better wording um we also don't go out to eat bar food um it's again it's just not our thing we love rude shrimp because it isn't bar food it's a culinary experience every time and every now and then there's something new and it's all Chef prepared and the owners are on site and I don't know if other restaurants actually have the owners that are there every day and working um they come out and greet you at the table we've become friends that way um and as far as far as alcohol the I mean I don't know it's a beer you know beer wine and whatever alcohol they serve we have friends that like to order fruity drinks and John and I are beer and wine people so that's just not even issue to us we're there for the culinary experience why I sound nervous I don't know um it isn't crowded I haven't experienced any rude obnoxious patrons I have never heard or read on social media anyone who goes to rud SHP to rud shrimp to hit the bars um Anita knows how involved I am with Island philanthropy and rude shrimp is always generously involved and accommodating and it's not a late night spot uh you know they close up early they shutter up they might as well be in santel so my husband and I went to rud shrimp for dinner and I saw this public notice I oh first of all I thought it was a Roger thing believe me I understand ordinances and following ordinance I watch all the Town Council meetings M&P meetings and the LPA meetings um my friends who live in the immediate area love having rud shrimp nearby and um have had no problems with them so but I I don't know the other uh people who have had complaints I envy their walkability my friend Diane that was her husband that was just up here um I met her there at rude shrimp and they live on the boat immediately next to them as he said I won't repeat that and she's remarked what great neighbors they are um this is their first winter here and they've enjoyed it so much they'll come back now I don't know if they'll come back if shrimp isn't located there but we shall see um bars visible from the outside so I'm not sure how this works I can see yatan bar junan new's former so Wahoo Willies and what about Susie Q's um I hope common sense and if needed latitude prevails and I will leave you with this one thought Anita puppies are a lot of work thank you thank you Chrissy um who is next Howie Hoffman after oh that's right Howie Hoffman after Mr Hoffman is Barry Lawrence hi good morning my name's hoe hofman I've lived on for Myers Beach 25 years 581 Palo Circle I'm the commissioner of for Meers Beach softball and uh we have a tradition we play every Tuesday and Thursday and we used to go to the Shamrock for our two hours of drinking the name of the team's the triple Deuces two hours softball 2 hours drinking 2 hours napping we lost the Shamrock all together and we were taken in and being sponsored by Rude Shrimp Company I met these people people these people are really good people and they care a lot about the community I don't know if everybody's been here a long time but you've seen our green shirts and we go to the rude shrimp on Tuesdays and Thursdays because they're good people the food is delicious and fantastic the sauces are magnificent and if you don't eat there you're an idiot thank you thank you oh wowa uh who is next Amy Barry Lawrence after Mr Lawrence is Diane grao Mr Lawrence and then Diane you'll be after Mr Lawrence good morning good morning everyone my name is Barry Lawrence um I moved after three years in Afghanistan I moved to Fort Meers Beach because I love to here I vacationed here before I'm also an Entertainer on this beach I'm probably the one I get they get complained about most uh I am a sound expert I've been doing being in bands and running sound for bands and being a part of bands for many many many years uh our sound levels are no louder than anywhere else I've worked on the beach including the Tiki Bar the the old Sunset Grill that's no longer um salty Sams just I could just about every bar on the beach I've sang at never once have I ever got to complain about being too loud by the way I live in the neighborhood where the complainy live when I'm at my house on the canal I cannot hear Rude shrimp from where I live I live literally a football field away from him also when the town puts on concerts at their new stage between Snug Harbor and um nervous Nellies I can hear that music clearly how many times have the police been called by him for that zero Time Square every time there's an event there there's music I could clearly hear the music I sing along with it all the time how many times has they called the cops on them zero it's a vendetta it's it stay off my lawn I don't appreciate you I'm I'm going to stop you so what what I'd like to know you can further your comments what your feelings are not what somebody else's feelings are okay well my feelings are my feelings it's a personal Vendetta um also there's been I'm a witness to uh continuous nuisance calls to the police and having them sent the rud shrimp over and over again and we're well within the sound variances of what's allowed um and it was continuous so obviously and this is the point I'm trying to make at the beginning yes there was some animosity between the owners of of rud shrimp and the neighbor uh and that's because of the continuing harassment of the neighbor by calling the police uh Lisa and uh and and rude shrimp have always been great to our community they've helped me bring my life back because we lost everything in the hurricane and they've provided me with employment uh they've uh they've supplied our community with all kinds of great volunteer stuff that they've done I think we all know and and enjoy that about them but I also would like to say this as a part of the community and the same neighborhood I disagree with the sound they've done a great job I suggested we move into the corner and we have not once we always check our sound we're never loud we're never loud so I just want to say that I I want to appreciate you guys for what you do also because you guys have had a tough job through the storm and I appreciate you all also thank you very much thank you so much appreciate your comments who was next Diane oh Diane and after Diane will be Marcus free good morning good morning uh Diane grao and again I'm married to Bob who lives 50 ft away from rude shrimp um I also feel the complaint about noise is unfounded and let's just imagine no rude shrimp there there what are the noises I can hear snug Harbor's band well over the music that comes out of rud shrimp you've got private boats going by the marina at all times with really loud obnoxious music and because it's a no wake zone in theory they hover they hover so we get to hear Boom Boom Boom Boom Boom a lot so take away Road shrimp you have construction noises you've got Lawn Care noises the lawn care noises start at 8: a.m. very obnoxious hammering all the time boats in and out of the dry storage area um to say nothing of the uh power wash noise going on at all times so take away rude shrimp you still have noise you are not going to get rid of noise in that neighborhood at least the noise from rude shrimp is pleasant and again when we go to restaurants if the music is too loud we leave rud shrimp you can sit down and have a conversation and enjoy music at the same time thank you thank you so much for your comments Diane who is next Marcus free after um Marcus is Dale banma good morning Marcus good morning uh my name is Marcus free um I'm glad I'm here to speak to you guys I did speak before at Council on behalf of rude shrimp I won't go into what I feel about rude shrimp as a person as a neighbor I've already explain that I think that's going on as well with other people's testimony here today I'm the next closest boote behind Diane and Bob to Rude shrimp and I have enjoyed very much hearing the music and was one of the disappointed Neighbors when the music changed and it was moved from the stage to that inside corner and now it feels like it's coming from two blocks away I also believe that this is a vendetta and I want to point out a few things in this report to make that clear if you go to page three of this report recommendations um at the very top there's a noise complaint that's mentioned a little further down there uh a comment at towards the bottom um may not be appropriate approval of a special exception may not be appropriate without safeguards to ensure that nuisances associated with these uses did not impact the nearby residents you know this is Port Meers Beach there are Town ordinances that control the amount of noise that may come from a business despite the complaints from Dale that went on and on and on none of which were founded these were meritless complaints I was there on Marcus Marcus Marcus uh Marcus with all due respect um uh we know that Dale has complained about this that's given but it's your job to tell us why we should approve this but then then please don't refer to Mr Bon just tell us why we should approve this because that's why you should approve this because this has gone down a road of Quagmire they've never been in violation of the ordinance why does this recommendation if it's going to if you guys decide to approve it why are these Draconian rules most of which are related to sound they've never been in violation for me personally as their neighbor if they're not allowed to operate I'm going to take my 60ft boat and the money that I spend on this island including at Moss Marina and I'm going to go wherever they go and I'm not the only large boat on Doc a that's going to do that this is a travesty that it's been allowed to continue to this level they've not been in violation why is this a problem it should be approved without any additional circumstances thank you uh just just so you know just let me clarify this they're not here because of noise they're here because of the bar it sure sounds like yes sir yes sir about yes sir is about no sir it's not but thank you for your comments uh who's next to speak Mr BMA Mr B after Dale will be Jay B Bama Dale Bama 7:25 Dan escort so I don't know why we weren't here six months ago eight months ago it's it's crazy this goes on and on and on so there's no Vendetta it's just there's just been no response no action we met with Lisa and Gary FCO the manager of of moss Marina Way Back last summer and Lisa said she would not change her setup cuz we were saying can you please point the speakers the other way she said no I'm not changing my setup so then the next weekend when it's noisy again I I contact Gary and he says put your earplugs in have a drink that's the response we got so out of desperation we're showing up at all these meetings trying to schedule our life around all this it's just it's it shouldn't be compared to the whale the whale has been getting approvals at every step the whale has had their six-month review the whale is actively building back so it's not like the whale the whale is zoned for this the whale is on the on the Boulevard and so it it's just not fair I mean to as far as just the food truck concept nervous Nelly Snug Harbor Wahoo Willies their weekly expenses probably exceed the rude shrimp's annual expenses so if if we're trying to be fair here that's not fair so you know Moss Marine they own the SOB property why isn't the root shrimp located there because the moss moss Marine Ben they want to drag Time Square the Lani Kai to that location they want to make it yeah it's really funny it's funny D dale dale dale dale dale you're speaking to us and folks please keep your this is the real the real issue is not necessarily about the root trim it's like do we want Time Square where Moss Marina is because it's a real detriment to our neighborhood you know our neighborhood got decimated 70% of the homes are gone otherwise this room would be a full of a lot more people but our houses most of them were destroyed it's a very quiet neighborhood and we've all been through a lot lot we have all been through a lot we are all struggling to get back and the rude shrimp people bless their heart they're good people they are Saints we can all agree on that but this is about just protecting our neighborhood we've we've all been through a lot we lost Cottages we lost personal property and I we just don't want to Bar in our neighborh Hood we don't and that's the big question do we want Time Square where Moss Marina is we would rather have the queen of weed set up in our front yard than a bar in our backyard okay Dale thank you very much one last thing please please if you have to approve this can you please not allow music cuz 65 DB 7 days a week week after week it just get told thank you Dale thank you appreciate your comments Jay Jay after Jay we'll be Jay bur good morning Jay good morning um good morning everyone my name is Jay Bona and we live directly across the canal from MOS Marina at 725 matens court and thank you for the opportunity to speak today I'm getting nervous oh don't be nervous first I would like to thank the LPA members and the town staff um for all your hard work I've attended many of these meetings and I know they can last for many many hours so zoning laws are in place to defend our property rights MOS Marina is not downtown there is so commercial Marina in the January 9 LPA meeting Sarah props clearly said clearly said and I quote they referring to the root trim don't have the allowed use there um the root trimp has been out of compliance for 9 months I know we initially brought the noise uh problem way back in June and what they were allowed to continue to operate without the proper permit is is still a big question so matansa court is a very quiet neighborhood I know the gentlemen in the yellow said they've never seen us there but we live there we are inside the house so they probably won't notice that but we live in that house so that peace and quiet has been destroyed when the rud shm moved to MOS Marina you know the sound carries over the water and we live very close to MOS Marina so I know tourist and voters come and go they love the music but they come and go but we live there that is our home so whatever you decide today that will greatly affect us so we pray that you will uphold the zoning law and protect our neighborhood thank you so much thank you Jay who's next to speak Jay Burch and after Jay will be Don Thomas that's a hello everyone I'm Jay Burch and my wife Rebecca here we're 205 bayw Avenue and we're very committed to the island it's our second home after the storm I'm an expert in fun and being happy period I wore this shirt today because it makes me happy and I think it's a fun shirt I go to roue shrimp because it makes makes me happy and it's fun this island cannot run off things that are happy and fun first thing I'd like to ask I wish we would consider more than six months for this we're going to be back here doing the same thing in six months and it's not needed it is an outstanding place they're very involved and they make me happy and fun so if you approve it for anything but that make me happy and fun thank you thank you sir next Don Thomas Thomas that's all I have signed up yeah good morning I'm Don Thomas I've been a resident on the island since 2016 I'm speaking on behalf of the rude shrimp Roode has been a beacon of our community support since they have opened they've always had a yes we can attitude when asked to support any organization on the beach this is a kind of small town let's work together attitude that Drew my husband and me to the community I'm encouraging you to work with the business owners and compromise and come up with Solutions inste of penalties to help our Island rebuild and grow we need our businesses to support our residents and our visitors since the hurricane rude shrimp has faced numerous uphill battles and continues to evolve and resolve to try to come up with Solutions similar to complaints of the music at the whale residents who live by the bars and restaurants should understand that we are in an in unprecedent times things are going to change as soon as brick and mortar are built root shrimp has uh done multiple corrections to accommodate the neighborhood they've moved their music to inside facing toward the water oh my God I need my readers and so the music does not flow into the neighborhood the bar can be seen from the outside the structure similar to Wahoo Willies and the whale how is this any different actually it is different as you can only see their bar from the private parking lot of mos Marina as for the detriment listed by the town how is sound a d detriment by code MOS Marina is zoned in a louder restaurant that does allow music Rood has also um contracted an additional trailer from the Coast Guard and has been waiting for them to move out so that they continue to improve on their space hoping to create additional improvements last week representatives from the LPA spoke at Town Council about how we're going to decide how Fort Meers Beach is going to move forward and develop plans for these temporary structures as development plans are made and submitted for Brick and Mortar for the future as we all know building takes time heck in fact tearing down takes time as you can tell by half the the derel buildings that have not been ripped down in some of our key areas I urge you to place rud shrimp in the first category as rebuilding Roode is in a state of flux and wait for the development of mos Marina if that development does not happen then we have another issue to contend with but until that time everything should be done to support one another um to make viable and successful businesses thank you thank you Don that's all I have signed up okay that's all that signed up but is there anybody else well you're welcome to come up this is another PR I'm looking at this is affirmations for my store he he's also very happy my are you also a happy person I'm a very happy person did is hold on hold on hold on is there anybody is there anybody else that would like to speak after okay several all right go ahead all right um Ron benock 210 Sterling Avenue and um a lot of stuff has been said and um I'm just here in support of the rude shrimp um some of the stuff that um um the um bar part that's the part that I'm not quite understanding cuz there's not a place on the island that you don't walk by and see the sale of alcohol so that part of it I'm really confused with because their bar actually faces the Back Bay so um also um their plan um you know they they're they're doing the decibal readings they're doing it sounds like they've got a really good plan to address the concerns of the neighborhood that the people that come up and have voiced their complaints um the trust issue um you know I I disagree with the the end date of six months as well um a review in 6 months like other people do I think that's a great idea that would address the trust issue with the neighbor um but you know I guess that's all I want to just say is that there's a lot of stuff has been said already and um I'm just in support of root shrimp thank you so much for your comments uh yes sir come on up oh you're you're you're the singer I can't with great with a great voice nice to meet you in person uh stepen Clark I'm a resident of the island been here since 2020 also a musician uh a social uh media influencer just say that because this this comes into play in a second um first of all I I've played rud shrimp a number of times I love these people it's one of my favorite places to play mainly because the setting I actually will set up my live camera and broadcast to some 20,000 people at times and this is the story that I wanted to tell you I I actually met a woman last week who came here and she came up to me and said I saw you do one of your shows from rude shrimp I I booked a vacation that day and I came here because of that cuz I showed dolphins she said I want to come here to Fort Meers Beach to see dolphins that's the importance I think of having them where they are on the Back Bay because that's that's a view we don't get very often um as for the sound thing I know the first thing I do as a musician is I ask the people in the closest seats or am I too loud and if I'm too loud for them I know I'm too loud for everybody so I turn them down um it it's the reason why also you ask why we need amplification I remember who asked that question I I just use one amplifier I'm just a guitar and a microphone and an amplifier I could I could sit with my guitar in the back of that room and sing and you wouldn't hear me unless we have a microphone and an amplifier so I think that's most of I know Barry's kind of the same way just uh you know just a small amplification we're not putting up big sound Stacks we don't have de leopard drummers behind us we're just singing Jimmy Buffett and we're singing at a level that people can converse because if we're too loud they'll leave so that's why we're not so I just wanted to say that I think rud shrimp's a great place it's great for our community people will come here just because of rude shrimp and that's what we need we need the people coming here spending their money helping us build thank you thank you very much for your comments sir uh yeah uh you know what back there and then I was handed another one I don't okay who was it Amy Dennis Carter that's me Denise Denise Dennis okay hi Dennis hi Dennis Carter um I've been here on the island since December of 1982 I have owned two businesses on Fort Meers Beach but St Carlos Island and Mainland but still in 33931 as a Canadian and a resident in the US to have a Visa it's called an E2 Visa I had to have my business qualify and I had to prove that I was bringing an economy and a value to this community it was a long and lengthy process to get the E2 Visa exactly the same kind of business that Miss Lisa has and I'm telling you a resident does not bring economy to this island these businesses do residents can come and go they do not add to the value of what Lisa is bringing here rude shrimp deserves the opportunity to get moving and bring us forward thank you thank you Dennis uh yes ma'am hadn't planned on saying a word well I'm I'm glad you changed your mind my name is Robin Oaks Atwood my father is a 30-year resident which makes me now that he's 84 uh I'm down here all the time wonderful and we have a family home uh which is right next to the B B I never can say their name complicated but it's not so what I think needs to be remembered is that this is a residential neighborhood that is being really really affected and it's not just noise of Music they have reeled it in when they decided finally to go through the process of doing what they're supposed to do they decided to behave so I'm not complain about that but I want to tell you there's noise that goes beyond that in the partygoers and the screaming and the yelling and the cheers and all the things that go on over there um and I just want you to keep in mind that we are families this is this is this is my parents family home full-time residence all the time becoming mine now and we would like some protection in in the zoning of of our homes so think about if you would like a bar out your back door we like to sit on that water and look at the water and listen to that um without interruption that's what we that's what we're accustomed to in all the years of being there so um I own a business I I understand how good they can be for a community and all the good things they can do for a community and it sounds like they're doing that but it doesn't change the fact that you that you want that in your backyard so anyway I appreciate you listening and again I swore I wasn't talking today so but I do feel like you need to remember this is a residential neighborhood where people live thank you very much for your comments Laur um yes come on up Amy apparently I'm not as skinny as I thought I was you the poll said otherwise good morning Amy Lowry for the record uh resident here for 23 years I'm here today in support of the rude shrimp after Ian they were one of the first businesses to reopen on the island providing us with not only a place to gather for meals and drinks but more importantly providing with a a sense of normality that we all were so desperately craving since her reopening they have gone above and beyond to provide activities and events for our Island the owners are involved with their community in so many wonderful ways their move to Moss Marine was in hopes of becoming a brick and mortar business which is something the town is striving for in the rebuilding of our Island they are not a late night venue and are respectful of their neighbors music is controlled and done by 800 p.m. on the weekends and 700 p.m. on the weekdays much to mine and Rick's dismay um as you all know we're the late night people uh while I understand that they are not operating in their original location their hopes of building in a new location and the fact that they were an existing building prior business prior to Ian should speak volumes for their commitment to our Island I truly believe that the rude shrimp of one of those businesses that are in alignment with what the town is trying to obtain with our rebuilding of the island I would ask that you consider the request today to remain open for business as originally permitted allowing them time to build and become a permanent fixture here on Fort Meers Beach I'd also like to say that Rick and I were there on both Saturday and Sunday both days um I can honestly say we could barely hear the music sitting there ourselves in fact Rick even commented on Sunday that um bris ladyes microphones needed to be turned up because we could not even hear them singing I understand the intrusion into residential neighborhoods being in the short-term vacation rental business our goal was always to try to figure out how to have Islanders and vacationers live harmoniously there is a very hard time with balance on our Island um even I'll say living across the street from Smuggler Cove we listen to marro Polo with the kids in the pool um we all have and they're not open now so I don't listen to anything other con construction but um but we all have I'll say a neighbor perhaps in our neighborhood we don't like um we can't choose our neighbors um people are trying to choose their neighbors right now and and that's a little bit more difficult um I would suggest I know you guys have a hard time finding balance and this is one of those tricky cases um but I hope you will consider there request to move forward and um the 6 months seems quite unreasonable in my suggestion as well so that's all thank you thank you very much Amy is there anyone else who would care to speak Cara Cara you coming up as an expert are you coming up as just a comment that's a good thank you I don't know the answer go ahead you're speaking under public speaking under public comment Cara Stewart and I was not going to talk either I the only item I would like to address is that six-month condition six months is not a very long time I mean it'll go by in no time at all there are some Provisions in place for protection of the neighbors that have concern with the music you do have a noise ordinance you are you are proposing conditions also that limit the hours further I think if we can extend that 6 months that's just in the best interest for everyone 6 months is a very short period of time for someone to operate a business and continue to operate that business so if we can do that their permit I believe expires in 2025 um the permit that they currently have for their temporary use if we could maybe go consistent with that date that would be very very helpful as well the six months doesn't um terminate their business the six months is for a review and I just like we did with the beach whale yep and I follow I follow that um I believe that a review also is really accumulation of what you may be hearing throughout that time frame and if you want us to maybe perhaps just provide we have any comment we have any complaints you want us to forth uh forward to town staff maybe um any complaints we are aware of something like that and what we've may be done versus having to schedule to come back I think that that might accommodate you in the same fashion thank you cara anybody else who'd like to speak yes sir I'll be very quick um I just want to will you say your name sorry Pedro Gomez p e d r o g okay uh I just want to like uh acknowledge that the town has done a very good job in bringing all the farmers markets into now we have three of them every week and I think uh the the root shrimp has built a very nice Synergy with the one that there Wednesdays I think it really fills on on each other not that it's helping with the traffic at all but okay uh oh and then the other thing is uh they also have a musician um that has a very cute dog called Rocket so thank you is there anyone else who cares to speak yes sir following this gentleman is there any he's got a shrimp on his shirt so we know where he is is there anybody else who'd care to speak after to this gentleman no okay thank you so much good morning uh my name's Chris Hayes I'm a professional yach captain and uh we moved our operation from fishtail Marina up to Moss because fishtail is just not viable for us anymore as a person that's been in this industry for a long time I've been a lot a lot of places uh you know from the keys the Bahamas to the Caribbean and I've been right up next to beach bars and the craziness that goes on not only with that but with the guest on barard and try to get them to pump their brakes a little bit um I brought the boat back I think in August to Moss Marina and I can't think of one time where I saw someone was inebriated getting into a fight where the music was so annoying I mean it's just amazing to me what they've been able to accomplish here it's a really good vibe um and what you look at is you I'm from what I can see is okay they're on a commercial property that has the ability to to have a restaurant and develop it then you have a neighborhood that's adjacent to it so you all have a difficult task of trying to thread that fine line where you keep those people people happy and and uh that wasn't my time was it no no okay it's difficult task for you guys to thread to thread that but you know I look at I remember uh my wife's parents going to the Big M so I I'm trying to imagine I W I wasn't there but I'm trying to imagine you know hundreds of people coming through those streets and the noise that created when the Big M was at Moss but you know you have a tough task uh I just would like to see them have the opportunity to make money you know and build their business so that's all I have to say thank you sir I appreciate your comments okay last call anyone thank you all very much for your comments um uh does the applicant or the staff have any further information to share with us Lisa nothing uh Sarah nothing okay I have a question for the applicant before it comes back to us Lisa would you come up thank you at one point we heard that you guys were going to move back to where the Coast Guard Station was is that still happening that is not we had uh initially potentially discussed that um thinking it might be a better solution just to the whole um uh setup but uh that is not currently zoned um commercial so we will not be moving to that I just wanted to clarify that that's it okay Lisa I want to ask you a question about the you've moved the music over to essentially the location that that folks asked you to move it to last summer has it shifted back there and and have you received as many uh complaints since it has moved so um we yes we did move it to that location the biggest issue why again um why I did want to move it to that uh to my point earlier we had to move for Revenue generating seats um and again you know that adds up week over week and it's sure just had it changed the setup um and we had to move some things around so that's why it took a while for us to move it to that but um in um but is it working out for better it seems it seems to be um i d and I communicate on a weekly basis um as I stated earlier as to any new new um activities maybe on site um and I checked on the noise levels so it seem it seems to be working well um and I ask the other neighbors um along Harbor Court as well to see how how the noise sounds it seems to be working well okay any other questions for the applicant John anything no I don't think so no nothing nothing thank you Lisa you're welcome okay comments from the LPA Patrick um I can't read you on this I'm I'm I'm glad the applicant showed up today with a little more detail with a little more information um and I'm also very happy that she's uh retained assistance from Cara to perhaps when this goes to city council have a town counil have a little more detail as to what they're proposing as a plan um that being said I felt I had to make quite an effort to understand this case uh are the application itself and and the staff report um had a lot of gaps so what I did find and when I researched it is it it is an approved use they've got a permit and they fall under this temporary use that we have uh post hurricane um it is a restaurant not a bar um also a restaurant is allowed as an accessory use in their zoning district and the issue at hand today is really the fact that they have a bar that faces the exterior and what we do as a town in our zoning regulations is we say an exterior bar could potentially cause issues we don't know if it will or not so we put the letters SE beside that use which is special exception and so what that means is the person proposing that exterior bar and that use has to come before us and ask for that special exception and they have to demonstrate that they're doing something to address potential negative impacts and I think I I fully believe that this is an acceptable use I think there are mitigation me measures to address um any potential noise issues do I wish um that we would had a lot more detail and this could have been addressed a little while ago I certainly do however I think we are getting there we're on the right track um luckily we we had a precedent we had the whale and we had conditions associated with that and it seems like uh that's acceptable to the applicant um barring the issue of a a six-month limit and I I too agree that um there shouldn't be a hard fast limit but I'm okay with a review period um so so with that said um like okay I I I believe it's an acceptable use I believe from a the the restaurant use is permitted um and we're really looking at just the bar and mitigation measures um and I think there are definitely ways to address that do you think they have been addressed I think via the conditions that staff has proposed and that the the applicant is um accepting or supporting I think we can we can get there Don anything to add that add nothing further from what Patrick said I agree Doug um yeah I i' kind of like to maybe I'm adding to Pat's comments but there was a lot of discussion of having the rude shrimp or not having the rude shrimp and that's really not what's before us what's before us is just the special exception to have a bar that's visible and and at that level the bar that's visible is facing if I picture this right is facing the bay it's located at a commercial Marina so it's not like the bars facing directly uh residential Community although I do understand the map and I understand the this community of residential homes is right next to them across the canal and I am very sympathetic to sound uh pollution but I think I would have to agree with Pat that if the seven conditions are enforced that mitigates the reason we have a special exception for a bar then it does appear to be an acceptable use at this location at this Marina sort of parking area or concrete pad thank you Doug Jane um I kind of want to address the feeling in the room um there is a lot of big feelings here and animosity and we are all neighbors and I think if everybody put respect first I think there would be a way for this neighborhood to come together and be better neighbors better friends better working relations and I just think respect is something that is not being handled here even from the people that are are just visitors here I I think that there's a lot of pointing of fingers and things like that and I I feel concerned for the people who you know spoke against this hearing today and I I would like for everybody to try and embrace each other as neighbors as opposed to completely fighting against each other and in that respect I think that the six-month review is very important um and I'm wondering if possibly more protection as in plantings or something to give a be a better barrier might be something that we could put in as a condition to broaden the security for the Neighbors who are feeling offended by the music I do feel that they have changed recently in how they've handled their music and uh I'm glad to hear that uh Lisa and Dale talk weekly I think that's wonderful um because I think that that's what's going to bring it back together um I do think that I I would like to see whoever makes a motion to add that um a hurricane Exit Plan should be submitted to the town H as one of the conditions and also that no entertainment at the current stage location because you could put your four seats on that stage and they could be your special customers of the day maybe a throne uh yeah I mean make it something you know the the the the shrimp bets of today or whatever so um I just want um to live harmonous Harmon Harmon yeah that's the word or in Harmon in Harmony and and really think about before you speak to each other or about each other and maybe if use that old rule if you can't say something nice don't say it at all that's what my thoughts are uh Jim comments or thoughts on this yeah several comments first um I would have liked the applicant to um let us know whether the 50% uh food uh requirement had been or is being met no yet um second I this is temporary uh rude shrimp is not going to be there forever um and we are here trying to get the the beach to move forward forward and every business that opens is important um and this the six-month review on the whale at that time we knew that they were going to submit plans to build and so the the six months was was sort sort of set based on their um building requirements that's not the same here so I I wouldn't be married to the six months if uh my colleagues up here here uh wanted to extend that um and I would agree the Don we do need to add something uh that if there is an evacuation order there should be a plan that should be incorporated as a condition of any approval today thank you thanks John any comments uh yeah I mean I think this one is a really difficult one um we are in a transition period in the um although what we're being asked about is access to being able to see a bar I think it's really the impact on the neighborhood that is really the issue that we're talking about and it looks like there's been a lot of steps taken recently to mitigate that which I I really applaud um I'm not sure I understand why it's taken so long and I wish in the spirit of this neighborhood that that it would be not contentious that's for sure uh for that reason I I believe that a six-month review is is is probably right in order to ensure that it continues to to you know work alongside their neighbors uh the other thing I'd say is that you know these decel readings are great um except that they don't really mean much it's really the direction of the music especially when it's going over water and and um so I I don't know if we have an opportunity to say which way the Amplified music should be positioned or pointed uh but certainly away from the neighborhood as it is currently would I think help everybody out I think you'd be able to have a better sound and uh not impact the neighborhoods quite so much so those would be my thoughts joh just a quick quick question on a comment you made and that hopefully someone can answer answer that my understanding is the speakers when when they used to use that stage the speakers were indeed pointed towards the neighbors I believe with the new setup they've pointed them the other way I agreed and I think that's okay uh solution or at least partial solution hopefully it's uh I guess what I'm saying is can that be codified yes I think that's a good good point that that a great location um and has been successful with the music and maybe that location should be part of the conditions um I would like to um like John said I think given the controversy and the concern with noise I think we should keep the six-month review period where we can revisit and see if uh the commitments have been met and I agree with the with the review um we apply that to to the whale we've got someone that's coming before us and saying I'll do ABC and d and I think this is just a way where 6 months from now we can say have you put those safeguards in place and are you honoring your commitments and if you are should be a quick quick discussion and we should be done with it however if they aren't that's where we we have to look at other safeguards so I think that's perfectly reasonable we're just asking for someone to to basically honor their commitments and demonstrate that um you know I think there was uh uh this idea that I was anti- rude shrimp nothing could be further from the truth the reason that this all came up to begin with was that you know a temporary permit was issued to you guys Carrie you're nodding your head and and you didn't have everything you needed to have that temporary permit and we were just questioning why and of course then the issue of noise and the impacts of the neighbors came came up um the comment that troubled me most that was made today Frankie Karen back in the back I hope you heard her say it I think her name was Mrs Samuelson she said she's lost her trust that that is the comment that really troubled me most because there is nothing more contentious or more difficult to deal with than noise I think from the beginning of time it's so subjective Lisa you are right I said what's loud to me might not be loud to You' and when people complain uh they want some satisfaction for their complaint for their for their concerns um I I hate to see Neighbors uh especially Mr Mrs Bona vilified uh in this case because they're just trying to live their life uh I might be doing the same thing if I lived in their position and there's a very different um it's a very different world from you know going with chrisy and and Dawn to the rude shrimp to have a couple of drinks and eat some great food or sitting in a home where maybe I've got some troubles or I just want to be quiet th those worlds have to coexist um I think the six Monon review is um is absolutely necessary uh just to tell you when the when the beached whale came before us uh in their first hearing there was the whole audience was full of people saying there are too left they're not doing what they're supposed to blah blah blah the second hearing the six-month review no one was there complaining so hopefully that will be the case some letters oh there were some letters true but it was substantially improved um so I hope that will be the case here the thing for me is whether I I sympathy greatly greatly with the neighborhood um if I had to pick a side I pick the neighborhood however that's not what's before us what's before us is approving the special exception for the bar and the noise element uh comes along as sort of like a side dish that has to be mitigated by by you Lisa by the root shrimp um it's like you all just have you have to figure out a way to live harmoniously there so um anyhow that's that's all the comments I have I I see from the comments that have been made by by the LPA that um you want to add a condition about a a hurricane evacuation plan um there is also another comment made about increasing landscape buffer does any landscape buffer that was yours yeah does anybody else agree with it I mean I don't disagree with it I guess I just I I have a little bit of concern I mean they're trying to run a business right uh they've already given up Revenue seats to try to mitigate and you know how much do we you know for people to spend to do that agree if there's some way they could do something to mitigate some of the noise I was thinking could we put uh you know the sound machine balls out in the parking lot or I don't know something like that just to mitigate it but uh I just don't want to put undue uh stress on the financials of of a business is trying to really trying to just get on their feet and uh and also be part of the community all right so let's leave that one off but what about no entertainment on the stage does that need to be the direction is what was the direction of the speakers I believe okay so um condition that the the speakers be positioned away away from the away from the neighbor residential neighborhood okay so the existing conditions plus a hurricane evacuation plan and um that the entertainment speakers and sound be focused uh away from the neighborhood did you did we want to speak and the review is in there John's comment about the location of that having the the music in that corner of the bar because it protects it on both sides have that be the location I mean that's a little prescriptive I I think it's really the direction that the speakers are are pointing in my mind yeah I I don't think we can be too persective at this the bottom line is 6 months from now either there is uh peace and Harmony in the Kingdom or there is not um I never have much faith when it comes to noise that there will that there will be peace and Harmony just making a comment that you know again this is a request for a visible bar bar right exact has nothing to do with noise unless the noise is coming from the bar so we're using that to impose conditions and although I'm sympathetic to the neighbors and certainly have experienced that in my time here on Fort Meers Beach I um yeah I just want to acknowledge that we might want to take a look at that on a forward basis to because if they were just a restaurant with with um they got their permit for a restaurant um with music we wouldn't be here right we' they'd just be playing music and as long as they meet the noise ordinances I think we need to add those conditions to make to give people faith that they will continue to be a better neighbor I agree so maybe it's something to do with permits when we issue a permit for a restaurant or a bar you know maybe there's something there with respect to to uh live music MH and just to piggyback on that comment I think everybody has to understand that we are dealing with a temporary setup okay and when there's comparisons to other establish establishments that are brick and mortar either you've got different zoning conditions or they came in for their own permits and as part of that that permitting process they address some of those issues so again we are dealing with a temporary nature that's kind of why we're we're having to go through these hurdles and find a fix and and the other little quick public service announcement for everybody is folks when you this did drag on and I think and I say we and I I I I make myself a member of the town here we we need to to help applicant also out to get in front of us or get issues addressed quick quicker and I'm not sure exactly how that goes but you know if anybody calls me just for advice from a process standpoint of what do I need to do I will always take a call and try to get people educated as to what needs to be done so in this case I think we took a little while to get there but we're we're finally here okay would somebody like to make a motion to approve or deny the request I'll make a motion um motion that we recommend approval uh with the conditions identified uh by staff uh the exception um to their conditions is a six-month review process rather than a um six-month end date that we also incorporate uh Don's recommendation for an evacuation plan and uh John's recommendation for um requiring that speakers be directed away from residences and towards the commercial Marina portion of the town so there's a motion by uh Patrick and a second by um by Jim is there any other discussion on the motion Sarah are you standing up to tell us something I have a question okay um for clarification regarding what that review process looks like um would it require it to come to the LPA in order to be heard so that people have the opportunity to be heard but does not require the update of the special exception the whales required the special exception to be renewed both both okay thank you so so just to clarify the amendment um I'll go along with my colleagues and and say both and that it has to be renewed and and it has to be discussed publicly okay any other discussion on the motion uh Patrick your vote Jim yes John I Jane I Doug hi yes your motion carries unanimously although yes as well oh we're not counting Don on this one Don's usually on the phone okay since I know the majority of you are going to be leaving here we'll take a quick five minute break e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e item on the agenda is the administrative agenda Frankie do you want to come up and talk to us during this section yes you're here we're going to Corner you I thought I was just here for Plucky comic relief negative you mean you didn't hear our request from last month oh I heard him he heard him good uh good morning good morning still uh Madam chairman and councel my name is frankic I'm the operations director for the town of Fort Myers Beach under that umbrella Falls Community Development compliance and a few others um I'm at your disposal uh Frank the at the last uh at the last meeting we talked well as you saw at the council meeting in other ways we talked about these temporary permits how they're getting issued why they're getting issued and um and uh we just wanted your comments on it so the temporary use I I think at this point in the game as we're approaching what that 18th month after Ian type situation they really need to be taking a good long look at how and who is applying for these um and and where they need to be I think your comments uh your and Don's comments to uh council at the M&P along working with councel uh trying to develop language with teeth they kind of tie in with compliance okay uh when that vehicle showed up in Time Square if it had been Paul's poodle grooming we wouldn't be talking about temporary use that's not true not really true because uh because this issue as a matter of fact Dan and I were talking about it on the way out to Florida Gul Coast University the issue has been percolating it's been percolating in neighborhoods relative to just the trailers the mobile homes that people have been living in uh it's been percolating with that it's been percolating with other business owners who are looking to rebuild their business but then end up having well let's just call it competition who is operating out of uh temporary uses so that I know everybody wants to point to that particular trailer as the Nexus of this argument but it really isn't um it I I could care less if they had been serving snow cones it was the first of all it was the issue of they were given a temporary permit for a term of 18 months instead of six that concerned us and and it was just this sort of when will temporary end and there just hasn't been that discussion corre now now everybody's discussing it so maybe it gets us to that it and it should um in in all honesty um we need to attach it closely with with Senate Bill 250 I think when we talked about that at the M&P finding the correlation between how it affects the residential side versus the commercial side they have to coexist because if they don't you're always going to have a lopsided situation you're going to have the residents being able to live under such scrutiny for two years and a commercial property come in and say you know what the ordinance that's currently on the table has no teeth I can do this and with the right jux Theos word smithing on an application whatever you want to call it all of a sudden here you go and I'm up and running and look at you uh you know and and and we have to have a a fair playing field for everyone involved whether it's a business a business that's been here a business that wants to come to the island whether it's a big development or whether it's just someone wanting to build back their grandmother's Cottage all that has to coexist we just got done hearing about a neighborhood and an establishment and what was the edict from from the panel coexistence right find a middle ground find a way to find Solutions as a town we have to do the same thing so our ordinances have to align with both the residents and both with commercial or business however you want to frame that um and currently they don't currently we are giving a lot of Provisions need say we probably should do more less that's not up to me to say for residents but in it's needed because of the situation you just were devastated by a category 5 hurricane it's easy for me to come here not living through that coming here almost a year later and seeing Devastation but picking up this okay I'm going to carry this on and this is the way the town is going to go into the future that's not the way Andy and I came here we came here with the guys that we knew that this was a devastated place but we also knew that it has to be fair for everyone to continue we've made concerted efforts to every talk we've ever given every talk we try to do with people is yes we'll help you out but if we help you out it's going to be the same thing right down the island I want to be consistent and I want to be fair so I'll go out of my way to help a business owner I'll go out of my way to help a resident whether it's a expired permit per whether it's uh maybe language that wasn't added to that permit we sit with our building official we'll sit with whomever to make it right the bottom line on this entire island is compliance we need an island of competent structures built correctly that are going to last whether it's a commercial brick-and mortar or whether it's grandma's little college and that's kind of what we're trying to achieve Jame what were you going to ask well the thing that keeps getting brought to me is the understanding of the temporary permit was the whole thing was drawn up for people who had businesses here and had no building for them to survive it wasn't at all about bringing in new businesses because where is this new business going to go what is their plan where you know where is the building they're going to end up if they had a six-month lease they were going to give us a plan for their future but now they've got you know a year and a half what's going to make people want to get into brick and War if they can get an 18-month permit to stay in a can and and have very few expenses so to to get to that point okay so the permit I I wasn't aware that the point the permit was written for 18 months but regardless of how the length of time we already have the wheels in motion with Council and with the direction of uh chairperson Anita and Dawn at the last M&P to put teeth into ordinances so I on my end can enforce it um 23-05 was a an ordinance drafted it has the word commercial in it never once really talks specifically on how I can enforce onto a commercial property under a temporary use or under that that Proviso so without language I I can't enforce on the compliance end um you can be vague and and you all know when you look at an ordinance it's interpreted differently from Pat to John MH the meaning the intent now when Council drafted that they had all the intent of having a document or an ordinance moving forward to allow people to come back here's the temporary housing that you can have or temp temporary business things that you can put onto your property and move forward until you can get back on your feet that was never transmitted into the ordinance so a a lot of you know we can sit here and say how are we going to do this how it's it's happening it's happening right now through osmosis it took us a while to get to this point but we took the old ordinance with the the help of council with the help of Anita and Don at the M&P suggestions on how we can make this stronger and fair for everyone moving forward I realize that you haven't been here for a long time but those of us who have been due to our age but um anyway I don't know who you're talking about yeah yeah well anyway the the key thing was this one of the other things that's being brought up is that we want to be represented as a family Island that was our whole you know Fort Meers Beach Family Island and that's why we wouldn't allow the MTV to come here and we don't allow the wet t-shirt contest and we don't you know do all that kind of stuff and I mean back at a point where we decided that we we didn't want a um tattoo place at the entrance of our Island as to see be the first thing you see coming on the island because we wanted it to be a family Island and somehow uh you know we had discussed also back when were we are going to allow dispensaries on this island and we said no because if we did CVS could not do it medically so they cannot have that in a area around them so we said as an island they can go over the bridge we want medical marijuana to be be able to be dispers dispersed through our our Pharmacy and so here we are are we putting CVS at risk by this new thing that could be an issue for their licensing so let me address that so getting back to that truck all right they sell cdb products you can go to 7-Eleven uh that are trying to build back one is going to be opening very soon I know vice mayor ederal um a lot of people some of you have have really put a lot of effort getting 7-Eleven back on the island they've been a great Community partner giving us money towards our little leag field as well um you can go into any flickor store uh gas station and buy cdb you can buy the same exact strength cdb as what they're selling over there well that's something that we need to look into because we did say that we were going to protect our Pharmacy but that's this is over CBD that they're selling yeah they they they they cannot sell by law T anything with THC cancel the Delta 9 derivatives and all of that do we have language in place for that and that kind of goes back to that no we don't so so to to because it didn't exist right and you know what and and and try to stay two steps ahead of these things you actually can't but you can get so prohibitive of things that you kind of exclude yourself from the regular world that's why we have lcso that's why we have agencies out there to protect us from this the best we can do as a town moving forward is make our ordinances not so constrictive to prohibit business from growing and and and virging but to contain what type of businesses and what kind of direction we want to go in and that's kind of double talk on both sides of the mouth and I apologize for that but I've never been one to say you can't do this without showing me why and how it will either be a detriment or a positive going forward try to say that it's a detriment to CVS because because they're selling cdb um that I can debate that with you all day long my my former occupation I can tell you what that thing is on the beach is nothing but a glorified hemp truck um and until somebody says that hemp is illegal uh yes it's the same genus as marijuana the Cannabis it it's not the same as far as the strength and and the derivative that is taken from it um it's a gimmick you know what Frank it may be a gimmick it may be everything you're saying but at some point in time there comes an element of discretion that has to be utilized when you're looking to paint a picture of what your town is going to be 5 10 15 years from now is that part of the picture for me it is absolutely not and I agree with you ma'am I agree with you wholeheartedly but it's just like when per still got issue our our our generation grew up looking at Norman Rockwell paintings right the ideal communities the the covered bridges the the horsedrawn wagons and the winter time uh is that the way Society is or was no but in retrospect in retrospect we can't dictate what Society will become or is becoming we can only dictate how we have to proceed within the parameters of the law and and that's something that I stood up to my whole long how that permit got got handled out they came in they filled out the application they went through the parameters of how or why or what it checked all the boxes the permit was issued yes I know I actually sat in the off outside office after that meeting that I was here and listened to how that application transpires because somebody came in while I was talking to Jason and applied for a temporary permit so it's pretty easy to get and I get it all we're saying is do we have to be more Vigilant on how we get those out do we do we have to be more aware of the surroundings and situations that might be impacted as they move forward oh totally but again 18 months I'll use that all day long I'll use as a year as an example uh of Andy and I inheriting A A lot of for lack of a better term crap um where do you pick and choose on which pile you want to dive into um permitting was the Hot Topic when we got here um you know no permits no permits tell me the last time you really got a legitimate complaint about a permit or not getting a permit currently we're kicking them out faster than any municipality in Southwest Florida that that's phenomenal and in just a short period of time um well we just to bring to you our concern and it was a unanimous it was a unanimous concern we will make the corrections you have my word on that ma'am great great yes anybody else have anything to say for Frankie we we appreciate you being here very much so there was no Plucky comic relief no Plucky comments necessary no there was also brought up about code enforcement and um the uh there was discussion about some of things not coming seeming to have code enforcement follow through and what is and I I can't remember the exact thing that brought it to the board to bring that up but I'd also like to just ask what is the plan for people who you know 18 months later haven't cleaned up their yards or done anything it's a two-prong two-prong answer and I'll be very brief I know your time is very valuable um as far as code enforcement goes we had code enforcement here when Andy and I came to the town um it was already in place it was up and running it was under Community Development we broke it away from under Community Development and put it under me under operations they were given a different edict uh where I come from um I've always tried to educate educate educate and at The Last Resort here's your citation I like that uh we get the label thrown out there how come the town doesn't find them we do not have the ability to find only a magistrate can find so until we find a way for us to find we just have to site or open a case I think that's what people mean mean get I get that but in in in my old world it it's it's a little different uh when you're violating the law versus getting a citation um so that's the way it was supposed to work along those guidelines is the competent people that you're entrusting to do that work has to follow very stringent uh chains of evidence when they're collecting say for instance you're building a shed in your backyard and it wasn't the same shed you had before the hurricane and one of my officers would go and take a picture walking through your yard of that shed he violated that he did not have the authority to go on private property AB in front of a magistrate or a judge that evidence would be thrown out the case might actually be in danger we had a a large influx of cases like that we made a change we brought in uh with the help of Nancy and our legal team looking at other municipalities on how they do it uh there're State Certified code officers they follow a state certification called face and uh we just hired a new coordinator um she came from um P pelis County thank you Nancy um and uh where she was not only a code officer but she was also an interim supervisor so she brings with her a lot of a lot of knowledge a lot of ways on how to do it correctly starting a case finishing a case she also follows my Edict of educate educate educate um we also brought in another full-time code officer that is the same way from the City of Cape Coral so we we're rebuilding our staff we're reteaching them when they go out into the community that it wouldn't be the first in instinct to say you're wrong here you go Ag and that's what the town had done yes you know this isn't a military state right so I would rather get you into compliance by educating you on the steps to get you into compliance than going through the whole rigor morar of having to go through a magistrate and everything else it's a lot easier on me the same thing as when a police officer pulls you down you know that you might have been 10 miles over the speed limit but you you kind of flash your eyelashes at them and say oh my gosh I was late and more than likely they'll say you know what keep your speed down please follow the law it it it's kind of along those same lines so moving code enforcement into the future in this town I want them to be a tool that the community can use as well they have a wealth of knowledge that they've gained over the years not just on construction but on property maintenance and that ties me into the next phrase we know we have a lot of derc properties in fact Andy and I did a survey oh gosh I think it was like late August early September uh we went a couple of weekends in a row um all weekend long just up and down on every street taking pictures documenting going back looking on the computer if the people had permits to uh Dem demo the properties if they if they were any type of town program at that time um and then we we compiled our list we sent the people a letter back in October saying this was the town's movement going further hey your property is in bad shape you need to take these steps to address it otherwise and we kind of left that open-ended as it progressed uh we didn't realize a a lot of the people that we had taken pictures of were also involved with the FEMA mitigation program FEMA just like Hippa doesn't share those people with you until the very end I still don't have the full list I was promised that three months ago from from the national government and that hasn't happened um excuse me from from FEMA um but anyway when we looked at a lot of these people that had called up and said I'm in the mitigation program that cut our list down to about 50 odd properties in that is a mix of residential or commercial as well not so much the downtown although there is one blaring one downtown um with one of our fences completely around it that will be on that list um but we tried to look at a different way should we go through code enforcement to handle it or should we go through our building official our building official in town has the authority to Red Tag a property that makes it unsafe for habitation it makes it unsafe to live or to continue when he goes out and does that he is taking fresh photos he does have the ability to go onto the property as a public safety measure um so that was the path of lease resistance um we've kind of going back and forth to council my marching orders from the mayor Dan allers was to I want this done now when is it going to happen and I told them one date well then we kind of went back and looked at it and said you know this might be the path of lease resistance so now we've kind of Switched gears and we're going with the building official route but a short and quick answer is he is going to be the judge and jury on that property he comes back he does his research make sure that it's not involved in any mitigating program they haven't applied for any type of demo permit on their own and we have a contractor that we will hire as far as the the town goes structure will be taken down and the lean will be put against the property as far as the grass I now have people that can go out there and say hey cut your grass this is the reason why you know it brings in rodents it brings in a lot of un unwanted things exactly we we need bigger cats I think they travel across the street group to five and you're going come on um but so so code will be actively involved with that we also taken code and put it under our Rangers are we call them our community service we had community service and Community compliance they were the old base they were basically just uh a quasi Police Department um with just ticketing in mind uh we've taken that off of the radar a fair statement I mean did you know them Frank I mean I I know there are some very fine people in that group yes no no you're correct and you know what those fine people are still here they they call themselves Rangers now okay so instead of having a uh but with my police background uh having that uh type of mentality where ticketing was the number one issue um we don't have complaints about ticketing anymore on this island either um and we have record Revenue as far as parking people paying for parking so when you have that the light bulb has to go on that no maybe you made the right move but we don't call them base anymore we call them Rangers because they are on the beach to the Bay we've broken it up into four districts these people aren't just sitting there on the beach waiting for something to happen like a glorified Bay Watch they're not just cruising the the beach accesses looking for unpaid parking they're actually educating people they're helping people they're pulling the little signs that says uh I'll come to your house and give you a perm uh for $299 or whatever it is they're they're making the the the job of Code Compliance more legitimate they're taking away all the fluff and letting them concentrate structure to ground and and the things that necessary to move on you are so wordy any other questions for Frank no thank you that's all we're glad you're here thank you ma'am thank you thank you for having me now I know what they say about you don't start a conversation with Frank oh yeah hurt me in front of this Court I bet thank thank you thank you very much Frank okay um next item on the agenda's LPA items and reports Patrick anything none Don none uh Doug no ma'am Jean I was so happy to have a fun fun day on sun Saturday with all of the sunshine and fun people in the parade I thought it was a great back to Fort Meers Beech thanks all who participated and were there to celebrate uh Jim I'd like to thank you chairman from going to the Town Council and taking our concerns um and bringing Frank thank you you're welcome hey John anything from you nothing at this time thank nice to have you here you know I decided and I said something to Ken beforehand because I I don't want certain properties to feel like they're discarded but I you know since you're here Matt kudos to you for keeping the coconut property in such a nice condition that people really look at it and wish it would stay that way forever but we know it won't yeah and uh kudos to London Bay for what they have done to clean up and and secure their properties to gray them with the goods there's a small business owner that tore down a building that uh you know has been here for forever cleaned it up blocked it off I mean there are a lot of people that what was the property next to Diamond Head was that a sterile them even even that was a Monumental project for them to do but there are people I I guess this is it Frank there are so many people that are making these Monumental efforts that the ones that don't are glaring and it's like you know no no no no you no no no no no no no you just stay where you are stay where you are but you see what we're saying so I wanted to give I wanted to give a kudos to those properties that really were going the uh the extra mile so okay yeah truly right um the next item is Community Development no it's not it's LPA attorney items and reports and this is a discussion of the development agreement with deviations yes but before I jump into that because that's going to be a very good conversation um just so you know at the last M&P we did have a discussion about two uh an ordinance revision to the temporary use which you've already heard a little bit about that um but the other one is an expedited uh review of variances so I just want to go ahead and give you a little information about that is this what Jim was talking about yes yes I did not for all today I think you had you had two variances and it there was no opposition to any of it no nobody in the audience nobody um on St on the board or the agent LPA um so but yet those um Property Owners they still have to go back to the Town Council and go through another quasi judicial hearing so the way that this ordinance is has been uh prepared and we're going to fine-tune it a little bit based on some comments from the Town Council um in that situation there's going to be I believe it's a 10day period And if nobody objects to it your action is final agency action and that's it and they would not have to go to um the Town Council for an additional quasi judicial hearing on only variances um that appear to be non-controversial now the other scenario would be that um you render your decision um and it's unanimous but something comes up during your public hearing that causes concern someone can raise a concern and then at that situation um it would have to go back to the Town Council and then once the Town Council took action that would be final agency action the words final agency action is a ticket it's a ticket to go to court and to challenge the local government decision so that's like really important from in my world to know where does it stop where does it end final agency action so that will be a change it'll be coming to you in an ordinance form once you review it it'll go to Town Council and two public hearings there and then it should become an ordinance um we're going to try to expedite that to you as soon as possible and also expedite the temporary use uh I am going to be meeting with staff later today to get a little bit more detail the more I hear about it the more tentacles it has and we want to try to make sure that we address all the issues so we don't adopt an ordinance and then later have to come back back and you know continue to uh amend it Nancy I know that the vice mayor thinks that 10 days is adequate but in a community like Fort Meyers Beach there are many times where people are gone for a month and of course they're not going to be paying attention uh I Dawn travels Doug travels I mean we all travel uh I I don't know that 10 days is a sufficient uh period of time for someone to um uh to to log a log a um a complaint or A dissension in something I I does anybody else feel maybe not but it doesn't extend it then because a lot of the things that we see don't they come to the next like maybe a a Town Council or two meaning they're they're at Town Council sometimes in a couple weeks yeah so we if we go too much longer you're going to end up being the same place you would have been so that's true yeah and just a comment on that before it comes the LPA there's a two we notice window for the people and there's also a mailing that goes out to the immediate property um owners close to the wherever that petition is so this is you know again assumption recommendation of approval from staff no objection unanimous recommendation of approval from the LPA then 10 days but all that process before still exists so I don't have a problem with it and once once um what's the term you use Nancy final agency action final agency approval the state and the courts allow a 30 day period for anybody to appeal and then that's still you know that's still the right that you retain and it can go to the court system at that point okay anybody anybody does this final agency approval at our level apply if we do not approve like somebody asked for a variance like for setback or something and we decide no we're not going to Grant it is that still final agency approval or is it just no I don't think so I think it's just when it's unanimous and you know I'll go ahead and say it it's the right thing to do nobody's objecting to it and we all approve it yeah yeah but a unanimous rejection no I I think if you have a rejection you're going to have the property owner objecting to it at which point they would want another review um by the Town Council the other um important component of that is that people have a clear understanding that there is that 10day period um to to object and so we would probably work that into our uh housekeeping announcements and and things of that nature just as a reminder probably put it on our agenda uh sheet as well so the public knows that there is a finite period if they want to um go forward and and raise a concern we've also heard that some people are not getting their notices because of being displaced after the form or not having multiple addresses things like that it might be a good opportunity to also remind people to be up to date yeah and ultimately people have to understand whatever address is on the property appraisers website so if they give their Northern address versus uh their their Fort Myers Beach address mail that's where it goes yeah that's where it goes so um and so Nancy the temporary permit stuff you're going to bring back to us or are you not going to bring back to us you are no I'm I think I'm going to have to bring it back to you because there were a lot of comments um made that we need to figure out and address okay one way or another do you have any other items for us um the development agreement with deviations okay before we go to that could I ask you to comment on something you know recently there was a big story about um uh County Commissioners meeting with developers okay did you see that no I did not and it's not fair to ask you so I'll send you the story and um and then you can comment at the next meeting but basically it was a developer uh um who met not simultaneously but like Bing Bing Bing with four Commissioners and David dorsy the reporter uh did this whole story story you know it's sort of like when did you stop beating your wife it's it's a terrible question to ask because he said this may be a violation of the Sunshine Law that was a terrible thing to say about them because it also may not be but all anybody will remember is oh four Commissioners are uh violating the Sunshine Law and I just wanted you to comment on that because you know it happens here I mean we shoot I told Matt that I'd like to meet with him uh so what do you the guidelines the parameters of as individual members what you should know um because there's a distinction if I have a project I'm going to go see each one of you but um I'm not going to tell you tell you what the others think and I think that at that point then I'm kind of a conduit yes um letting you all know well everybody else agreed with it John so what's your you know what's why do you have this concern um so it's the um those conversations and bear in mind too that whatever conversations occur are disclosed through exp parte com commun uh disclosures that we have uh for the benefit of the neighbors because the property owner is having that communication but the uh adjacent neighbor or affected parties as we call them interveners whatever um you know they have a right to know that those contacts occurred as well David's a good reporter I was just surprised on that story because it just seemed like he threw a whole bunch of stuff in the middle of the room and then said maybe and walked away I made me very facts matter that's the thing I'll send you I'll send you the article and then you can tell us kind of give a little update on uh on Sunshine as well Anita a distin did you hear that no I I haven't seen the story but just a a distinction with Fort Myers Beach versus Lee County if um if there's a case there's been a petition submitted uh you cannot meet with the commissioner that's why I thought it was so strange whereas you know Fort Myers Beach are allowed to have those discussions as long as they're disclosed okay um go ahead Nancy okay development agreement with deviations yes and so what you have before you is uh first of all a draft resolution it's a resolution of the Town Council town of Fort Meers Beach Florida making findings approving an administrative code setting forth procedures for the application and approval of development agreements with deviations and providing an effective date so attached to that is an exhibit um should be marked exhibit a uh which are the actual procedures themselves and it starts off with um the application on page one and there's a a very long list of items that must be in the application uh carrying over to um page number three and um there was some discussion kind of during the break I think I had with with Frankie and with staff so often times when applications are received there's What's Done um is a sufficiency review um and that's just to make sure that all the boxes are checked so that we have adequate information in order to take it to the next step which is basically the analysis um on page three there's also so a uh list of things that need to be there in order for the content to be uh to allow for that review to take place and the content information stretches over to page five but the good stuff really starts at the very last line on page five development agreement with deviations review procedures and as you go on to page six this is where um the heart of the anal is and and the review process occurs so the very I'm on page six um 3.1 the very first step is to have negotiation and discussion with staff however at that point nothing is is really binding it's really more of an opportunity to get a overall view of what is being asked for and how it's all going to come together then the proposal is reduced to writing there are public hearings which occur at and 3.3 and that is the first public hearing before you and your job then would be to issue a recommendation for approval or denial to the Town Council and then thereafter there is a public hearing that's held by the Town Council regarding the agreement um 3.3.3 there is a notice requirement uh to take place following that part of the procedure um the development agreements in uh paragraph 4 on page s they are recorded in the public record so any um successor in interests and the public are aware of what they are and then the last paragraph of it talks about um amendments because quite often amendments are required um the development agreement itself um does not take the place of the other approvals it's just kind of a plan that's negotiated as far as how are we going to accomplish that so just the approval of the development agreement itself does not authorize a rezoning um but the development agreement could um allow for uh different types of of approvals that uh would not otherwise be dictated by by Florida statute that's just kind of an overview I would defer to to staff if you want to add um Sarah's like nope I'm out on this one uh Jason you have anything to add to this okay um this is the process this is not this is just the process this isn't the actual development agreement correct yeah correct uh um Mr Price would would you be willing to ask answer a question you don't have to would do you could would you all entertain me asking that a question you have to have him on the record I know he's up yeah for sure that's what but I don't want it Matt price C8 Development Group John this is the gentlemen that bought the Red Coconut hi I'm aware okay nice see you um see you too so uh at the Florida Gulf Coast University thing you oh that one yeah remember that you made a You made a couple of comments one I'll ask you out of a meeting the Miami one was a joke you made a comment uh because uh he was up speaking with Ben Freeland and with u mark from London Bay yep and you made a com a comment about the development agreement and you said you know I I don't want to go through what you guys are going through meaning uh Ben and Mark and so can you tell me what your perspective is on this because I don't I I did I wanted to say what do you mean sure no I and I think that's a fair question so how I look at the development agreement that we've been trying to work on with um staff hopefully and and council is is this development agreement is a process that allows a developer coming in with asking for reasonable deviations in exchange for public good now that process typically happens in the PD process and we all know the issue with the PD process from developers like ourselves is there's everyone starts at the same line there so and there's a lot of people that don't necessarily need everything you need to go through a PD process and it's long and it's expensive so as a developer who may be closer to the Finish Line because I don't need more than maybe others have I have to go through the same process as somebody who's asking for quadruple the zoning and that so if I'm going to go through that process instead of instead of negotiating in good faith to get my project done quicker I need to ask for more because it's going to be longer and it's going to be more expensive so to me the development agreement process kind of kind of allows people that maybe aren't asking for double the zoning or maybe aren't asking and just asking for certain deviations and by the way everyone's focusing on Red Coconut and I understand that but this process could be used for others as well oh sure I'm just at want to make sure but but but my point is is that the PD process is a really big catchall that that is asking for to go through significant zoning changes there are properties that need to go through that and and and not everyone should be able to use a development agreement but there are properties I believe could use that development agreement to get to where I think would be a same place that you would go through a PD process to get there sooner and to get stuff of the island happying faster and I think there's other developments that other people are looking at that believe the same thing so that's where I'm coming from with this now people may disagree with that people may not like that there may be issues with that and we should talk through them but if it's not a viable process then we are going to have to go through the PD process and I can tell you I'm going to have to ask for more than I would have given up the process quicker because it costs a lot of money to go through and time to go through a PD process so no one ever likes to talk about the business aspects of business in zoning but time and cost adds to basis which means I need to make more money I mean it's it's a standard it that's how it works so if you can get through that process quicker as a homeowner as a as a business you know all all that time and and money I get what you're saying it just keeps adding to the bottom line and cost is tough to deal with in the world today everything is more I mean I build my own stuff and I think it's too expensive so figure that out but so that's where I'm coming from with this I think would this process would have been the perfect process if Ian didn't come through I don't think so I think Ian probably changed a lot on the beach and I think the comp plan and some of the other things that may need to be updated eventually soon to to to bring it up and but no one really knows what that's going to be going forward cuz everyone's still trying to dig out of the mess so this is an opportunity for the town to say okay we're in a special situation and it's only going to work for certain properties that don't need to go through a as an example if this got approved and I asked mark this and I think he set it up there this wouldn't work for his property he's adding more zoning he's I mean he's adding more units so even the developers are in agreement that this doesn't work everywhere it's just it's a it's a process that we can use to get things going and I want Mark to be successful he wants me to be successful I want the businesses to be successful because we're all going to be successful if we can get this process going so now there's rules staff needs to go through it the attorneys need to be behind it we want to make sure that we don't get the approval and then get challenged on it so there's all sorts of things that we need to make sure of to go through the process but I think there's a there there and I think we should really look hard at it have you used development agreements and other projects anywhere um me specifically no I have not um I know a lot of people who have um um in other municipalities um city of Naples got rid of them but they did it for a reason to get a project over the goal line and they're probably the hardest place in the world to get a development but um it's it's a process that exists but I don't think it's a process that exists um if a special circumstance doesn't necessitate precipitate it and I think the hurricane we all know what that did and I think that we all know that something needs to happen on the island what that is we can all talk about that and and argue our the pros and cons of whatever comes out of it but we need to get to that point and and it's taken a long time to get there which everyone understands but at eventually we have to have those conversations instead of trying to figure out what we're allowed to do and what we're not allowed to do and spending all this money to design a plan that we have no idea if it's ever going to fly this is an easier way to get there anybody have any questions for Mr Price not for Mr no no thank you so much man I appreciate that thanks very much okay Patrick I do have questions for Nancy so um help me understand this from the standpoint of we we had a proposal for three development agreement options um that we've discussed uh there's also State statutes that allow for development agreements M so this language do does this language provide a process yes this someone that wants to utilize State statutes or is this a little more elaborate where this is more flexible I I believe than um State Statute this is a development agreement that is based on this the town's home rule Authority that gives you a little bit more liberal opportunity to be creative and to find a way to approve um or perhaps not dis disapprove a project that doesn't quite fit into the existing land use reviews the one I like to use I'm going to go ahead andow is a variance what happens if you have a project with multiple variances does that mean we're going to have separate quasi judicial hearings on each variance and those variances are inter interconnected so if you don't get one then the rest of them are all mood so this is a way to try to bring all that together in one review yeah so that's consistent with the site planine with deviations yes yes you did mention though that it does in doesn't negate if you get your your development agreement approved the need to go through the proper process so it would in this case if you did a site plan with deviations you don't have to go through a variance correct because variances are somewhat dictated by at the local level so would that mean if someone got a development agreement they wouldn't have to go through a PD if that's what they put in their language that they generally the development agreements go consistent with a resoning request because state law has some Provisions regarding rezonings so so so that two travel together read I read this and and I fully understand this addresses this site plan with deviations it it it makes it where property with multiple variances instead of having to be redundant and address all the criteria for all they can they can use this process it's quicker it's easier understand that then we talked about probably providing some kind of relief for small hotels and that through that process they could have gotten more we we use the term density MH and they could have also asked for potentially more height through that process does that and then the other option was for a large project someone could potentially get a provisional conditional uh conceptual approval and then they would still have to go through the PD process and demonstrate compliance with what that concept was right does that address those two other scenarios I think it does um so it's basically anything that the local the town has the ability and the flexibility under Florida law to exercise its home rule Authority if there is going to be a requirement from state law like in a re zoning you would have to go through that process but my experience has been Whenever there has been a development agreement that it travels con uh concurrently with um the rezoning but but a small hotel for them in order for them to ask for more rooms they have to go through a PD so what you're saying is they could ex development based on what their existing zoning is so now they're going with a plan development so they can change the density or the height right so it I think it's still a resoning so they still have to go through a resoning and that's I I don't believe that and I could be wrong but I will double check um but I I still think that yes you do have to do the rezoning but the development agreement guides that rezoning so so if we're using the again the the the example of a mom and pop mhm where for them to get additional Rooms To Go from five rooms to maybe nine rooms the PD process is cost prohibitive and they're either going to decide to sell or I don't know do something else with that property and we're trying to find a process that maybe expedites it or saves them money right now if I have to do a PD PD Amendment mhm uh uh a PD uh a CPD to get that approved I'm not doing a developer agreement on top of that that's more process and more money I can't even afford the PD in the first place so I while I don't have a problem with this I think this works great for site plan with deviations I don't see how this provides and addresses the small Mom and Pop I don't think we've provided that leave so and and again the the idea of of a larger development if it's got to be a companion PD with the developer agreement it it doesn't shorten the timeline where they get some level of certainty and it doesn't reduce that risk so they still have to put all that money forward to get to the same point so so your your bottom line question is can you have a development agreement and then basically not have to go through a rezoning yeah so so in the case of a mom and pop again they would say we've got nine we've got five rooms we're asking for nine currently the only way we can ask for that that additional density is through a CPD we don't want to do a CPD but we'll we'll give you we'll give you a a rendering tell you exactly what we're committing to we're going to tell you what our maximum Height's going to be our setbacks how many parking spaces we're going to provide and we're going to give you a quick little rendering of how our architecture is going to look like and if uh you know and then the other conditions is yeah you still have to meet all code requirements but I can get it to Quick approval and then I can go straight to development order yeah I think that the answer to your question is really in the very first paragraph um development agreement is a non-stat atory development agreement we've we've I think I've mentioned that that it does provide more um flexibility approval of amendments modifications variances or exceptions from the town's Land Development code and if appropriate relief from Building height limitations in the comprehensive plan and then approval and the deviations provided for shall be considered tan amount to and commiserate to a plan development for purposes of determining consistency with the comp plan so it's not an actual rezoning of the property it doesn't address Patrick's question about a number of units of increased density it does further in if you read further down it talks about what it where is it I have it highlighted it talks about height density it talks about what page is that on John so it's giving the flexibility but it's I don't believe it's actually changing the zoning on the property that's what I read if you look down on Page 6 3.2 when it gets the reduction proposal it talks about administrative amendments to the plan provided that height density intensity are not increased so is it excluding yeah that's my point that's exactly my point is excluding all the things that we would need in to actually help people develop and it actually it doesn't include variances like setbacks I I think it does include variances may allow for approval of amendments or variances at the very top because that that would be your site plan with deviations I mean that's kind of the the easy one where they're mostly used but often times um if there is a request for a PD um it would move forward as a rezoning but the rezoning would be contingent on the approval of a development agreement so the two kind of you know go together so all the terms and conditions of the rezoning in a PD is still subject to what's in the development agreement development agreements will generally also have the um the time for completion yeah so so at least for me I I read this yesterday and and I'm thinking it IT addresses one of three options that have been put forward IT addresses this site plan with deviations I I don't think it addresses the two other options that we had talked about I think that's a correct statement um but it's more than what you have now and that's and that's fine with me if that's what we're talking about today and and we're not I just want to make it clear that at least in my book we're not negating the fact that we've got two other options to address I still think that's got to come before us and it's got to be addressed and C Council can say no we don't want to move forward with the two other options that's their decision but at least for now I personally expect that we'll be discussing the two other options in the near future and again it's got to be in the near future because we have talked about the need for expediency and moving things along after this hurricane that's the whole point so so I'm I'm perfectly fine just focusing on this today but I I sure hope and I hope Andy and Frankie are listening but my understanding is they're going to get tired of hearing that is we've got we've got two other two other options to discuss Nancy do you know uh is there a reason why those options weren't because not because um by St statute we have to follow um if we're going to rezone property we need to we need to follow that um I so so I'm not sure I'm not sure it can't be achieved without a rezoning of the property so if you're in a if if you're in a commercial zoning District that allows your your use as a small hotel mhm and you're asking for more density there's a density table that exists in the code and right now the only process that allows us to go to that table and utilize the exceptional circumstances Clause is through the PD process so zoning is still in place table is still in place all we're changing is the process of how you you can request it right now the only process we have is a CPD and what we would be saying is we have another tool that's the development agreement where if you go through that process you can request it too and hopefully the idea is the development agreement will be a quicker cheaper process than right but the zoning doesn't change zoning doesn't change right okay so we're on the same p and I think I think if someone definitely needs a you know they're in a resident residential district and they want to bring forward a commercial use yes they have to go through a reone no no that's that's any resoning right so no as an example you know the property we heard about earlier um you know was commercial I think right it was and if someone wanted to switch that to residential they would still not be able to follow this process right because it is a zoning change they do the zoning change but they still is the option of having a development agreement that guides that zoning change um the two kind of work together yeah I guess no but I think I think what Patrick's saying is on for example on his number one which was small hole Hotel development there may be variances but there's not a rezoning yes and so can that be incorporated into the development agreement since it doesn't require a resoning yes in which case then we're only dealing with one component of the three concepts that we proposed to council so then the question is is Council are are we just is the direction from Council we're just dealing with this or are we going to incorporate great either in this ordinance or in subsequent ones the other two concepts you know Patrick the the the the biggest um thing that I've never been able to get past is I'm sorry I have a dog sitter at my house and they're they're a little worried that she hasn't you know done her business so um uh I um the thing that I have had a difficulty with um categorizing uh the mom and pop business what do we have the ability legally to say if you're this type of business you can do this but if you're a bigger so if you're we just you since we've always used C Gypsy if you're C Gypsy you can do this but if you're London Bay you can't per personally I think I think you can qual yes you you can definitely uh qualify and quantify that based on scale number uh again we we can we legally do that the the the zoning is a discriminatory process by Nature sure so this idea of we discriminate one land use or one property versus another you know we're not talking about interpersonal relationships with people and how you treat people we are talking about land use and by the very nature of zoning you discriminate versus you know one use versus another one property location versus another so inherently yes you make those distinctions we have to justify why we make those distinctions and what the rationale is behind it but I think if we took a mom and pop and we we we have a discourse as a community of what is that threshold is the threshold of we're not going to exceed you know it it's some one that has an existing hotel or pre-storm hotel that used to be less than 20 rooms or is it 30 rooms and we will allow no more than this amount because we believe that as soon as you exceed that amount there are other impacts associated with it and the proper process to address those impacts is a PD process we have to make an assumption that the the if we're going to create that process which is expedite ated and provides relief we have to make the Assumption of the the the the total rooms people can get is what we would consider di Minimus as a town or or um that that there are noty numerous repercussions with that approval that that threshold or that amount may be different to everybody but that's why we have to discuss it and we have hopefully we can find a consensus as to what we can all live with so um we could pass on if we all agree to what's in front of us today from a process perspective from a process perspective pass this back to the council and say okay have at it and at the same time request that they address Patrick cons that they uh discuss the concerns that have been raised by Patrick and bring that back to us yes yes okay but sorry to interrupt no you're not but at 3.2.1 it seems like it excludes any agreement for increased height density intensity yeah and that takes all teeth out of it in my mind like it it reduces the value of this process significantly well that's what they would have to address is well I I think I get what John is saying is this you know in my mind this should allow that once in a with there's a site plan with deviations it shouldn't necessarily exclude it because once it's put in place it takes an another positive action on part of council to change it whereas I think I I agree the language should be stricken not being there or or should be rewarded somehow to allow that opportunity uh2 it's the last it's the last sentence three two one sorry yeah got it sorry yeah it's almost hard to see how this would be useful having uh height density and intensity completely limited right right in this in this and and it's also doesn't include setback one of larger issues the answer may be because it may conflict with what the existing zoning is so you couldn't by a a development agreement raise the height and the density so much that it's outside of that parameter of the of the zoning category right and so maybe that's what the intent is of that sentence that kind of but I think we I think we at least when I look at it I I think I hear what you're you're saying but I think the intent is definitely to if there's a height Lim limitation or density limitation associated with a zoning District yes we want to be able to address it through this process what we don't want to do is we don't want to allow additional uses where they were not allowed so there's a use component you cannot bypass the use aspect but you can you can certainly address development standards height setbacks land you know lot coverage that type of stuff intensity yeah inity okay I will have to look into that further I'm looking at these people out here and they're just oh they just want to come up here and say something um they're's talking to Sarah yeah Sarah that was smart so uh Sarah prop with Community Development um so if we read the whole sentence so the development agreement may include a provision that authorizes administrative amendments to the site plan provided that it doesn't increase height density and intensity so that's saying you could make an administrative amendment to what was done so this isn't talking it I think that this is not talking about the actual uh devel velopment agreement with the original development agreement I'm it's saying you can have an administrative Amendment afterwards as long as it doesn't make a change that increases the height intensity or density which is which is pretty common in like a master concept referring back to section five 5.1 where it talks about amendments to the development agreement I understand I understand in context now and that makes sense so you actually can approve originally increases in height it or intensity should probably add setbacks but that cannot be amended after it has been approved administra administratively you that's what this says that's what it says it's a Once the agreement has been administrative amend then you're changing it that's not how it reads John that was good for you to be able to see that okay so we can again we can we can get clarification re this so that you know somebody like me knows what they're reading when they because that is not what that said to me yeah I agree did did it say that to you I agree it needs to be clarified yeah did it say that to you K when we reread it yes when I initially read it no all right so maybe with a cross reference back to 5.1 whatever yeah okay okay so um uh does anybody else have any uh anything brilliant to add to this or um are we yeah are we okay moving this on to uh the Town Council oh I have individual wording all right in the procedures these they just comments any of the LPA members want to add to it or make a comment as well uh 1.6 okay um I think that the survey language should be added saying existing conditions 1.8 um appears vague I mean in Patrick's uh scenario he had a fixed date um expected completion uh seems like we could come up with something that would uh establish a timeline or not to exceed or something yeah and I I think what we see a lot of times is is jurisdiction saying you know we we we Grant you this approval we want you to start your permanent process within x amount of time and that that that project might be phase it could be a 10-year buildout for all we know but they have to be in process we we don't want this to become a speculative thing where people people obtain more entitlement in to move the thing along so um I think we need to add a a one point 18 um or 1.18 um a list of public benefits um if we're going through this process and we're trying to expedite things I think it's important that we get a list of what the town is getting in return okay with the caveat that I think people need to understand that if your mom and pop on a on a on a dime stamp kind of uh lot your public benefit is you're bring back a an an Eclectic uh M and pop hotel that's it doesn't have to beate if any yeah doesn't it might not be um 2.2 is the same uh anticipated time frame again is vague if we could come up with some way of coming in with a specific time frame not to exceed or well I think on the timeline it's because this is to apply to all different types of developments and so a smaller development may have a shorter timeline a larger then the language I think could be crafted to deal with multiple types without just anticipated who anticipates the time frame and you know it needs to have maybe flexibility but get rid of some of the vagueness maybe something like the duration shall be consistent with the duration the typ devel devel complex development and I think we we can we can require a certain amount of time for obtaining for beginning the pering process that's something concrete that we can ask for and then the the actual construction or the phasing whatever that that that's kind of common where someone just gives their estimated time frame so everybody's aware but they have to then meet code requirements as to keeping a a permit valid and going through the proper steps but wouldn't that specificity be in the development agreement itself this is just saying um give us um an estimated completion of of the project well but then just what you said I think could be reduced that the application will contain you know a specified time frame yes okay all right we can put that in 1.8 as well as in the 2. and then my last comment on and 3.22 um how do or who does make it unable to negotiate a satisfactory development agreement um to me you could have situations where an applicant just didn't want to deal with the town manager and he just Waits 30 days and said well we were unable to negotiate a mutual agreement so he could bypass the staff or the managers I didn't read either of course I could so so so I think the intent is if you meet all the requirements identified here in then you don't have to necessarily agree come to an agreement with the town manager of town manager says I I you know I like what you're proposing or not it's it's we we agree that you've met the requirements and propos your project I think ultimately they yeah ultimately council is the one making that decision yeah well it doesn't it go on in 3.2.2 it goes on to say the applicant may prepare a propos development agreement consistent with all requirements for review by the town so they don't really hit it that end yeah I think that covered okay those were my comments onl they very good very good John did you have anything to add uh clarification to add I think you got it setbacks in along with height density intensity and 3.2 .1 uh 3.3.3 do2 consistency we're talking about land use building intensities estimated population and building Heights it should probably be consistent with the other things that we're talking about height density intensity Etc okay uh and oh I had one question um and this is just my ignorance but if it looks like one of the consisten or one of the requirements is a statement and finding demonstrating sorry 1.7 a statement and finding demonstrating that the proposed development agreement will be consistent with the comprehensive plan of the Town who issues such a statement uh the voting the voting body we issue that statement every time we um we have a CPD you have to find that you're the findings and conclusion then uh that everything about it is consistent with the comprehensive plan so you can't take an action like this that would not be in in um in concert so it's a guideline for it's a guard rail for US versus a guard rail for the applicant so so you're developing a a legal contract essentially as part of the development agreement and in your wear ass clause or whatever somewhere in there you have to demonstrate that you're consistent with the comp plan so there's got to be if if it you know if it's drafted by an applicant and they work with our Our Town attorney attorney got to be some language in there addressing that we meet that requirement and you know in some cases I think it might be pretty brief in a pretty significant project they may want to pull lot of support explaining how they're consistent with the compound okay but what I want to add is that again these are the just the procedures and not the development agreement itself and so under the first part paragraph one that section is basically telling me that when I apply I as the owner developer have to make a statement saying that this is consistent with your comp plan um and if it's not I shouldn't be applying in the first place right because you're going to have to have a comp plan Amendment so I think it's one of those we get applications that they say they're consistent and we don't feel they are exactly so it gets put into the application itself and then it gets reviewed that explains it thank you okay uh Jane do you have anything to add how about you Doug Don nope uh Patrick anything else can I can I make one of course you okay on 1.15 um we use the word sketch now to me the word site plan has a legal meaning sketch I don't know that that word is consistent maybe we we ought to just scratch the word SC SK where is it one point and now if if the word sketch can be has a has a definitive legal meaning then fine no no no um it's a it's a point well taken I'm almost thinking uh the word of um might have been or um and I say that because some smaller projects maybe don't really require a site plan um but you know I will check into that that's a very good comment okay there is a term um sketch and legal description like the surveyor term when they say sketches sort of like a surveyor drawing just to consider I don't think a site plan is that expensive to come up with so I think a sketch is too sketchy so then it should just be a site sketchy we see what you did there Jan okay Nancy do uh do you want a uh did you just want discussion from us on this or would you like a motion to forward this on I would like a motion to forward it on um with the comments that you have not with the comments that I have made and with the understanding that the answers that I did not give I will have um available and that the issues that Patrick has risen um has has brought forward will be uh addressed by the council okay somebody like to make that motion so moved thank you second in I don't know why I just don't make the motion uh is there any discussion on this further all those in favor say I I I is anyone opposed the motion carries unanimously thank you all um and thank you Mr Price and and your your your partner there appreciate it thank you what was his name Mr B nice to meet you nice to meet you work doesn't take long to figure out there's somebody else involved with you man okay next the next item is um uh Community Development items and reports uh Sarah Jason anything from you guys no okay are you looking forward to Thursday what's happening Thursday Thursday is our second meeting of the month for the comp plan 11:30 11:30 oh gosh am I so glad you said that 11:30 because I'll be here at at 9: yeah all right um items for next month's agenda do we have have any any news on is myerside coming next month what's coming next month do we know if you don't that's okay you could tell us on Thursday right on okay can we can we quickly address Thursday so uh do we I believe I I I went I went to our town website there are some Doc documents there I uh I think one of the things that I had requested at the last meeting is to have kind of a a summary of Where we've been where we're going what we're changing um just want to make sure that someone's going to be ready to present that because at least in the documents that are online those are just ref you know Sarah Sarah's acknowledging that yeah yeah you know Sarah since he just brought this up could I just ask you guys something else when we have um when we have major projects coming forward I think it would be extraordinarily useful to have as part of your um your packet uh to say you know here is um here is the Red Coconut uh they are zoned for currently zoned for ABC they could have so paint the picture of what they could have to what they're asking for that it I think go ahead do you want to say something that I know that might be taxing but I think it would be very helpful for the public and for everybody else and I know that you have mentioned that before um I think it's it's kind of hard for staff to know when we need to do that what we need to do that for and maybe just cpds okay yeah I I think also Anita what you're going to see is on the larger projects they're going to have a team that's going to walk you through all that I think it where we're seeing that shortage of information is is kind of the the average resident that doesn't necessarily understand the whole zoning process and we we see applications that are a lot more detailed and we see other ones that don't have a whole lot of information and I think just that just a a level of sophistication people that worked in this yeah but I also hate to see people saying oh I love the way that looks when okay yeah I love the way it looks too but or and it's it's those filling in the blanks that I think are important to people so we we'll try to do better at that no not do better you're doing great it's just something else there thank you Sarah okay is is there anything else from anyone if not may have a motion to adjourn please it is 103 thank you all 103 we're adjourned uh nice to see everyone