ready good morning everyone this is a regularly scheduled Mee meeting of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency it's Tuesday February 27th 2024 and it is 11:00 a.m. if you all would please stand for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance I pled Ali to the flag flag of the United United States stat America to the Republic for which it stand one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all uh as we meet here in Bay Oaks with this wonderful sound that you all will endure today uh give us the wisdom to make the best decisions possible for the future of our town amen amen the first item on the agenda is an approval of the minutes for February 13 2024 may I have a motion to accept them as distributed or with any changes so move s second so there's a a motion by Don and a second by Jane uh any discussion on that anyone object motion carries unanimously I'd also like to mention that everyone is present except Doug ekam who will be 15 minutes late next item is public comment if you are here for public comment you want to make comment on a case because we have five quasi judicial cases you should hold your comment for that case but there is public comment to talk about anything you like and you have three minutes would somebody like to speak I have some signed up up also wonderful are they for cases or for just public comment both have added Amy all right John McAn first and following Mr McLean will be Rick Lowry good morning everybody John mlan iget Street um I'm sure you're aware but uh I'm put my uh application in to join this wonderful group of people um I think it's a really critical time and I believe that you know the skills that you all have are very specific and incredible and uh and that's perhaps not me but I've got a great deal of business experience and I think I'm a very pragmatic uh collaborative person uh when I approach things I think uh very deeply about them I have a great love for this island uh I certainly am not anti-development uh but I'm also not unfettered development so uh I hope that I get the opportunity to learn from you and serve with you uh I'd like to offer if any of you would like to speak with me individually um happy to you know I don't have your numbers but uh my number is 239 314 9996 and if you would like to speak me I'm just call him very happy oh by the way I'm also pretty recently retired so I do have the time uh and obviously the interest I'm here almost every meeting so I have the the time and the interest to uh to serve and I would be honored to do so thank you thank you so much John Rick Lowry Rick what' you do to your hand I don't remember seeing that s just an old injury I'm trying to keep it from getting work so I'm just basically leaving this comment in general because I want to apply to everybody who comes before me for this certain uh item um when it comes to music on the beach you know we came to Fort MERS Beach 20 some years ago and me and Amy fell in love with the fact that we could go out and enjoy live music on a regular basis the problem being now um that the establishments are mostly gone we run into the problem where me and Amy are workers we work all day we get home late we eat dinner a couple minutes to do our chores and then we get to go out by the time we go out the barers are already shutting down these days the Music's Over and we've got nowhere to go we've got nowhere to let that go and that makes it difficult because that's one of the main reasons and the vibe of the beach is the music the the enjoyment and me and Amy love to dance that's part of our lives and to not have that is very difficult now because when we go out even after the Gallow the other night we searched for a place where we could dance and have a good time together they don't exist so anytime that something comes up in front of you guys that lets us have a little more later music um if someone asks for it please give it to them because we are starving for a place to let go and some of us have to work a little later and do things a little later and we don't have the opport opportunity to get out at 7 8:00 by the time we get out it's 9 10:00 and everybody's shutting off at this point and it's just it feels like us locals are getting pushed to go somewhere else and it doesn't feel right so I I implore you guys that anytime someone ask for music to be a little bit later so that we can enjoy it as locals and be able to let go just a little bit please consider us and and those who are opposing it understand that us locals we need that we need you to understand our situation too we need to have some some of that let go time and we're working our tails off to try and bring this town back give us a few hours I know it's implores it it you know makes a little noise a little later than you're used to but we're in a commercial Zone down there when we bought our property on Fort Myers Beach we knew exactly where we were purchasing and why we were purchasing there and I have to think that if you purchased up in a commercial area that you expected to enjoy that so I'm not sure what the issues are but please please consider the fact that there are little other locals who want that extra time to enjoy themselves and be with their other half and and enjoy their time here in the beach so thank you thank you Rick anybody else Amy that's all I have signed up other I have some for different hearings but okay is there anybody else that wants to make a general comment all right thank you very much um the next set of hearings are all quasi judicial in nature and I'm going to let Nancy say her um lovely little speech thank you madam chair you're welcome good morning everybody we still have a little bit left in the morning um okay so um as the chair indicated the next items on the agenda today are Quasi judicial in nature and so what this is requiring our our public hearing to comply with some procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law as well as in Our Land Development code so a quasi judicial proceeding is less formal than a circuit court proceeding but it's more formal than perhaps some of the other meetings that you've attended or some of the other hearings that the um LPA has we basically we follow basic standards of due process and under due process requirements there are certain notices that need to be made um they are required to apply the correct standards in rendering their decisions and their decisions have to be made on competent and substantial evidence that is presented to them either in writing or through oral testimony once it's presented to them again either in writing or orally they're going to evaluate that documentation that evidence for each item and then they're going to draw a conclusion as to whether the criteria in the Land Development code or in state law has been satisfied so pure speculation or your mere opinion has not been um considered by the courts as competent substantial evidence therefore it's not going to be persuasive to them as a decision maker however testimony by individuals who are qualified to give testimony as Professionals in a particular area as well as residents um of the community that have personal knowledge of whatever they're testifying to or they have fact-based information to share that has been viewed by Florida courts as competent and substantial evidence and would be very persuasive to the LPA in rendering their decision so if you intend to speak please keep these things in mind um when you come forward we're going to ask that you state your name clearly for the record and whether or not you've been sworn in and your qualifications or your interest in the matter and for purposes of efficiency uh for these um hearings that you have today we're going to go through a couple housekeeping items at the get-go so we don't have to do it for each item expedites are hearing a little bit so my first question is going to be directed to our town clerk um Amy has all the items been properly noticed yes they have okay and does anyone on the LPA have a conflict of interests which would prohibit them from voting on any of the items um please disclose this for the record and the nature of your of your conflict does any I do Patrick um I'll have to recuse myself for the item associated with the whale and that would be item number B B yeah my firm is um working with uh the applicant on Sandy Bottoms not not the current project before us today but it's the same applicant same client for our firm and also uh for the 711 item e item uh again my firm Ken gander is representing that client thank you Patrick anyone else have any disclosures of conflict of interest no one else Nancy well we'll have to ask Doug when he comes in but okay and so um with his recusal based on his voting conflict we still have a quorum present so we'll be able to uh proceed with those items for members of the public um Patrick has also is also required to file a disclosure form which he has he's filed it with the clerk and it'll be attached to the minutes of the next um uh the minutes of this meeting to be reviewed at the next meeting um so with that said if there's anyone willing or um intending to give testimony today um we would like to swear you in at this point so if you could please stand and raise your right hand and the clerk will yes anybody who's going to give public comment in on any of the cases any of these cases so y all might as well all stand up if you want we call it the we call it the all swear John stand up you're probably going to say something you you know you all want to talk all right do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth the whole lot's been sworn thank you thank you all so much thank you very much thank you and having your testimony sworn is basically another Indica that it is competent substantial evidence I mean we use that as part of the argument to to support whatever the the local planning um agency decides on a particular case um so with that said um Madame mayor if you'd like Madam mayor I'm so sorry former mad former Madam mayor current chair thank you thank you very much uh Nancy um the first hearing on our list is resolution 2442 secz 2023 28102 Estero Boulevard this is the pink shell are the is is anybody here presenting the pink shell it's yes um but um uh she's here for public comment you're here for public comment um so is the applicant here yes but I are you presenting no no um Sarah uh it was actually I believe the condominium board that applied and and uh she okay she submitted paperwork perfect okay Madam chair can we read the resolution into the record yes you want to go ahead and do that okay um this uh is for resolution 24-42 secz 20230 28102 Estero Boulevard this will be uh a recommendation for a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying a special exception secz 20 2023 0280 to allow the Reconstruction of a pool pool deck fences and walls Grill area foot Rin station lighting and beach access path in the environmentally critical EC zoning district with conditions for the property located at 102 Estero Boulevard providing for scrier errors severability and an effective date thank you Nancy and I apologize I had I had this just jumbled up in my head for a minute okay go ahead Sarah it's very similar to other cases yes yes and I just went what okay good morning Sarah propes with Community Development pink shell Vacation Villas located at 102 Estero Boulevard has applied for a special exception to allow the replacement or repair of accessory structures that were in the environmentally critical zoning District on the common element portion of the condominium property prior to hurricane Ian these structures include a pool pool deck pool fence and knee wall a grade an atg grade Pap path to the beach a foot Rin station and a grill area including lighting pavers and movable grills no gas sta no gas connection is proposed the grill area is being proposed approximately 8 ft closer to the side Lot line not the beach the applicant is requesting this special exception through the ordinance amendment to section 34- 652e that allows reconstruction or renewal of primary structures and major accessory structures partially or fully within the EC zoning district with the approval of a special exception the EC zoning district is in the in the sorry the EC zoning district is the land seaword of the 1978 Coastal Construction Control line called the cccl this condominium was constructed in 1976 prior to the creation of the 1978 cccl the applicants are not proposing any additional development in the EC beyond what was in existence prior to Hurricane Ian staff is available for any questions you have and the applicant is also here thank you very much Sarah um does anyone have any exp parte Communications on this case Patrick none how about you Don no Jane no Jim none I don't have any either um questions for Sarah just one just um I think the grill is the the grill area was the only thing that's moving right that's the only thing and it's going closer to the coal construction line no it's going closer that that part of the island sort of Curves up so the South property line is actually the side property line so it's not closer to the beach um it's just 8 feet closer to the side property line okay thank youh I've got a question also so U my understanding from the uh the application is all these different accessory uses and and structures are maybe damaged but they're existing so s like the area is being cleared and they're rebuilding I don't believe that's the intent all of those structures are still partially there um you would have to ask the applicant what their plan is on how that construction will go forward okay thank you very much Sarah thank you and now we'll have the applicant um good morning everyone uh my name is Kathy Schultz and I'm here to represent the board and the pool repair committee at Vacation Villas 100 Estero Boulevard a vacation villas is a small 30 unit condominium at the very North End of Estero Island many owners there have owned for decades or are the children of original owners my parents bought there in 1980 so it's been part of my life for 44 years um as Miss prob stated Vacation Villas was built in 1976 before the establishment of the 1978 cccl and we're seeking a special exception to allow for the repair of the Damage Done by Hurricane Ian to the pool pool deck pool walls and fences a small Grill area a footw wash station and an atg grade beach access path the repairs we require are minimal the pool shell is stable and not cracked but the pool requires resurfacing because it was scratched and had that sludgy water in it um pavers for the pool deck will be installed on top of the existing poured concrete deck to level it off um all items will be repaired like for like to substantially the same size they were prior to Ian um and we're simply seeking to rebuild what we had before the storm um we really appreciate the time and effort you all the LPA the Town Council and town staff have put into facilitating our community's recovery and I'm here to answer any questions you might have Kathy thank you for the effort you're putting into your property to help get that back on board I know everybody appreciates that too so thank you are there any questions for Kathy I I'll ask the question again but I think you've answered it so what you're doing is is mostly repair not replacement of existing it's mostly repair I mentioned the pool in the pool deck the grill area and foot wash were pavers so they got lifted up by the storm they're sort of in a heap where they are and um we're moving the grill area a little bit away from this cccl so that in a future storm the runoff won't come down under the building and create the damage that it did hasn't of this um work been done yet no okay thank you Jim any questions for Kathy no question Don questions for Kathy no questions okay Kathy thank you so much thank you we appreciate your presentation any follow-up questions for Sarah if not as the applicant been told the conditions for approval if um have you Kathy have you read the staff report will you come back up for a moment have you read the staff report and areu and just let the record show that that uh Doug is joining us now he he's rounding the bend um Kathy did you read the um conditions for approval for this request we've read the staff report there was a small discrepancy on the staff report which Sarah and I discussed because I think the staff report said Turtle season started May March March 1st and it starts May 1st um our our pool contractor has also read the staff report okay thank you so much Kathy yes I I apologize I should have mentioned that that was one of the items that we had discussed that I had the turtle season starting on the wrong month so um that will be corrected you know that's good was close all right Sarah um any further discussion on this only one correction I think is a resolution did it lagona Shores is this the one I saw one of them that was it said or I mean um not lagona Shores Leonardo arms yeah I saw somewhere yeah it was I think that's just a typo or something maybe that resolution would use so we needed to correct that yeah I'll I'll double check that and make sure it's corrected thank you just quick discussion on my part the reason I was asking about the repairs is uh in my mind if if if some of these accessory uses were completely destroyed and condo associations had the option to rebuild from scratch I think as a town we should be looking at every effort to stay outside the Coastal Construction uh line and not further exacerbate things in this case and and other cases we've had where they're just repairing they're trying to put back what was there and they're not starting from scratch I think that's perfectly acceptable that we approve that but I think if if ever there are condo associations out there that are are digging out the pool and starting from scratch I would recommend that you look for uh for you know an area landward of the cccl before you come to us that that's the only comment I have okay um Nancy let me just ask you a question since Doug just came in on this should we include him in this and ask him for expy or do we just let him sit this hearing out for the moment well that's a very interesting question I would ask Doug um do you feel did you have the opportunity to adequately prepare and review the materials that are in your agenda pack I think um and I'm sorry I'm late that's okay Doug took like an hour to get from Pine Ridge Road to here I couldn't know was totally caught off guard welcome for I think I should sit this one out I don't feel like I'm prepared to vote on it if that's okay okay so we'll we'll um we're going to ex how what do we say we're going to excuse what I mean how will he's just going to refrain from voting he's going to refrain from voting okay um may I have a motion please yes I'll move to approve um say with special conditions um of approval and um um I was going to actually read the exception for reconstruct of major accessory structures uh in the e in the um EC yeah is that right yeah EC zoning district and in compliance with item 34- um 88 B1 second so there's does conditions of approval do you want to include those yeah all five conditions that are listed in the staff uh recommendation okay so there's a motion and a second to approve the request including the conditions of approval on page five of the staff report is there any discussion on this motion hearing none D um Don your vote I Jim yes Jane I Patrick hi and yes it passes unanimously and uh Doug has refrained so thank you very much and congratulations the next oh we forgot public did anybody want to talk about that out here because I forgot public comment we you can back this up God I told you I'm off my game I was here at 8:30 this morning for this meeting it was 9 did anybody have public comment on this God bless you okay all right we're gonna we're gonna move on to the next case um which is uh resolution 2435 sc202 300052 it is a six-month review it's a resolution of the Town Council the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying the special exception Amendment sez 202 352 requesting a six-month reassessment of previously approved amendments to allow for outdoor alcohol sales and live music providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date do any LPA members have any expar on this Patrick none Don none Jane none Jim none Doug none and I have none as well uh that's not true I do have Tom a gentleman but who's actually a friend of mine's husband uh did talk to me as we were walking in the the door so um okay hi Jason hello good morning go ahead with the staff report thank you so my name is Jason SMY I'm with your planning and zoning department so as was mentioned for today is the six-month review that was requested by Town Council for the whale to come back and reassess what if any um outcomes or mitigation might be needed for their original approval of resolution 2380 the Town Council as part of resolution 2380 passed last year put conditions on the allowance for outdoor alcohol sales and outdoor m music uh those conditions included that they come back after 6 months to assess how everything has gone uh including that was also a limitation on the use of drums uh Amplified music after 6:30 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and an allowance for Fridays and Saturdays for the outdoor music to be governed by the town's uh standard noise ordinance so today today we're just here to allow the applicant to sort of give their their sort of presentation about how things have gone as uh as we've prepared for this meeting we had two letters that were sent to us uh one letter was in favor of allowing the outdoor music to continue again controlled by the noise ordinance and one letter that said that uh they had hoped that the mitigation would be allowed uh or excuse me the mitigation would continue the reviews would continue and that they had HED that the um outdoor music would be disallowed once the building had been fully constructed so we received two letters um about uh about today's request uh staff is here for any questions that you may have thank you very much Jason are there any questions for Jason Patrick Don just uh any qu any complaints I mean the staff's aware of uh so we are not aware of any complaints coming in through the notice of violation process uh we have received these two letters though okay thank you Jane questions he answered my question how about Jim one of the uh letters asked that it not be permanently approved this is only a request for a six month extension correct at this time staff is moving forward with the assumption that this will be another six-month EXT exension although Town Council could obviously change their conditions of approval Doug any questions yeah just to add um so my understanding is this is a temporary measure until their building is reconstructed correct okay thank you thank you very much Jason and the applicant is here if you would like to ask questions that's what we'll ask thank you the whale Ohio State logo that's very interesting I like it a little disappointed it's not a boiler maker logo just say that is kind of risky my name is uh Greg Von crr I'm the general manager and partner of the whale good morning Greg good morning uh what you have in front of you there is the last three months of decibal readings that we've been taking um we take them at the property corner of PLO and of Primo drive and we we do this about every half hour approximately uh whenever we're playing live live music uh we monitor it for about a minute to a minute and a half and we record the highest uh deciel reading that we that we observe uh during that time period um we have uh I believe that we have um satisfied all the parameters that were laid out in the special exceptions Amendment um we stop playing live music at 7 pm every every day during the week from Sunday to Thursday uh Friday and Saturday we stop at 9:00 p.m. um I do believe that after 6:30 there is something that's mentioned in the special exceptions um amendment that we have to limit at 65 DB past 6:30 p.m. just as a fly um we would like this expansion to be at least three more months we're hoping to break ground within the next 6 weeks but we would like it to be at least three more months and then ultimately we would like the uh special exception to be removed entirely um since most of the special exception had to do with a patio that was built on a proper on a building that no longer exists so um okay thank you very much Greg and I'm happy to hear about the groundbreaking being soon that's very exciting um it Doug do you have any questions for Greg no ma' how about you Jim no question Jane um this is a six month would you you don't want to shorten it just in case you don't get six months is fine um like I said ultimately it's just a just a break around I believe that was the original intention of the of the special exception anyway um at at the time of of that we uh were optimistic that would it would have been long before 6 months but as we all know it's some things just take a little longer than we expect so um another six months is fine but we real realistically should be breaking ground long before that that's wonderful news and are you aware of the um the conditions for approval and that are there's actually it's the conditions for findings okay oh never mind okay question there are conditions for approval a through F yeah they would stand yeah so you're familiar with those and are okay with those y okay super I just have one question if you're breaking ground in 6 weeks what are you doing with the um I mean let's say you actually hit it in 6 weeks are you moving the tent or is it we uh we've talked about moving the tent um there's some other things that we have to satisfy with the other property that we've talked about long before we can really decide if we're going to do that or not but um in a perfect world yes we would move it down to 2301 AA Boulevard which is the Old tuway Bagel location until we get that property open as well that's and so my question with that is does does this transfer to that property no no no okay okay um Patrick any questions for Greg none oh you're and you're you're out of this anyway okay um in only the best of ways uh Greg thank you very much um Don asked you the question I had which was uh what do you anticipate so once the construction starts or your the construction is eminent does everything that's there go away and uh and the the building starts is what I'm assuming correct yeah for my understanding we'll need every inch of that property to to to for equipment and supplies and and the actual building itself I can't wait to see we're all very excited yes I'm sure um and I also want to note that we um have intentions for a state-of-the-art sound system in that building PA systems um soundproofing we've spent a lot of time on on thinking about noise and music going forward once the building is constructed to mitigate any issues with with with neighbors um Greg have you or any of your staff had complaints from the neighborhood registered in the in in the in the in the tent have people come to complain correct um I have uh made myself very available to most of them uh actually to all of them anyone that's approached me um we have had some issues with a few different neighbors um what do you do to rectify it so generally that we do the Rectify is just turning the sound down um I mean I guess uh try to say this nicely here so it did seem like a few of them were more interested in telling me what to do instead of really being disturbed by it but that's just my opinion well sounds subjective so you know what's loud to you may not be loud to me and vice versa right okay but you have had people come in and complain we and you've dealt with it absolutely Y and I still to this day am still very open to working with any of them um they all know that so um I don't believe after the last six months of going through this I don't want it to be a continuous thing so I'm very excited about the building going forward and very excited about hopefully making everybody happy there you go do you know what the timeline for construction is how long will it be once you break about a year about a year 12 to 14 months okay thank you so much Greg any other questions thank you very much for your presentation we appreciate it hi Mike I don't have to say my name now do I yes you do uh Mike Miller also under the and um I just wanted to come up and um you know let let you guys know if you guys have any other uh deeper questions you know um Greg pretty much answered quite a few of them about the uh the timelines we're estimating we're going to put the we should have your um the permit not the permits but the all the um documents to the town probably within two weeks um they've actually been working night and day getting the the MEPS done uh so that we can and we were three hours with our Architects and AV guys like where TVs are going to go and everything else and audio video and um you know um uh I think right now they're talk they're working with the um uh with the the the the turtles uh they're going to be interviewing them on the beach to see what they want and we thought about put little turtle Crossing across the street and help everyone out good deal but but you know um you know well we know we're here to make everyone you know uh an enjoyable place to be and uh a good fun atmosphere you know restaurant Pub that uh you know we serve hard liquor we serve beer we serve Coca-Cola products and you know uh we serve very good food once we reopen can't wait and uh you know um you know there's going to be people coming up with testimony that's going to be against us obviously um you know we're looking at you know you can't Pease 100% of the people 100% of the time but you can sure as heck do your best and Greg has done a phenomenal job on that and um you know um he he takes care of tries to take care of every issue that comes up um but you know there's there's always going to be someone in a crowd that is going to have an issue and um like I said Greg's done a great job on on taking care of that and um you know uh you know from there I don't really know what else to well let's see if we have any questions for you yeah that'd be great okay Doug any questions uh no ma'am how about you Jim no question Jane none Don none and we don't count Patrick on this one so I don't have any questions for you either either um Mike but I do wish you uh great uh good fortune and uh we look forward to the groundbreaking I appreciate just one other thing real quick is that you know we want to get this like Greg mentioned we want to get this um exception eliminated but we'll worry about that once the you know we once we get rolling and you know when we have a soundproof building we have you know CU everyone you know even if you're on the first floor and it's open air we're still going to have a uh hurricane proof structure behind us that's going to be facing primo and poo at where you know our speakers are going to be facing a stero Boulevard you know like let's say if we if we have a um a single or a Duo playing let's say on the first or third floor um you know during happy hour times and that all faces a stero Boulevard but you know and it's like Margaritaville for instance their speakers are 360° speakers at their pools which is really I've walked by I haven't been in it yet it's a really nice sound um but you know when we when we uh uh if our music stops for a period of time we can actually hear margaritaville's music um I'm not complaining about that they neither is anybody else interestingly we actually love their music you know and um it doesn't bother us at all um but you know we want to keep our patrons you know in our attent and not going over there so that's all I want to say thank you very much Mike appreciate it thanks R okay um I'm going to open the public comment is there anybody who would like to yes ma'am we can't miss you there hello friends hello LPA you guys have really big shoes and you're feeling them very well there's a lot of diversity that happens in leadership can you tell us your name my name is Melody King hi Melody hi there I am actually a representative of the largest following on the internet for Fort Meers Beach it has been a very Dynamic thing to shift from search and rescue as a captain with the K9 Southwest Florida rescue and Recovery hard saltwater Cav dog team and stand in front of you today still screaming I love Fort Meers Beach when I moved here 5 years ago I moved here because I own a business called Paradise parties and guess what last year in February trip advis visor in front of 30 million people voted Fort Meers Beach the top tourist destination number five in the United States of America and guess what it still is and our local planning guy here was late because the traffic guess what stop complaining car karaoke is a real thing all right with that being said we are on topic of the whale uh anybody that opposes a small business rebuild considering a special exception hermit has absolutely got to understand where you live if you do not understand where you live perhaps it's not the right place to be I mean that with all respect Melody Melody watch out now wh you're talking to us correct and and the whale actually has a reputation of community orientation and we don't want to miss out the point that Rick over here lri said a lot of us don't get off the water or get out of work until 7 8:00 at night and we struggle because we don't want to go to the lighthouse place it's congested and by all means you can't really get a drink we go to watch live music at the whale and believe it or not they hire local entertainers and performers so anybody that's on the LPA opposing any loud music orientation and this is already an exception in place you have to understand that it actually shifts the dynamic away from the pocketbooks of the small businesses and the musicians here literally fighting for their lives without a building and that is all I have to say we really want Fort Meers Beach to be back as the top tourist destination and we want to reshape the way people are looking at our Island the Doom and Gloom is over and you guys have very large shoes to fill and we thank you very much for all of your combined efforts thank you very much okay anybody else who else would like to speak yes sir morning good morning my name is Rafael GK I live at 581 palmo Circle um I apologize for the dirty outfit I was just playing softball out there did you fall no no no I just rubbed the ball against it I'm fine I'm fine thank thank you though uh first and foremost I want to say I've got nothing against the whale I've got nothing against small businesses um the owners of the whale they have very generously contributed to the rebuilding efforts of one of my neighbors and I sincerely thank them for that a year ago you decided on the amendment of a special exception concerning live music at the whale during that hearing the applicants promised to keep the noise levels of their music in the boundaries that the local noise ordinance demands to me sadly I have to say they have not kept that promise the music is very loud some evenings I cannot hear the TV on my porch because it because of it sometimes the base of their setup makes my windows tremble and I cannot sleep it is a severe detriment to me my fiance and my property one time I went over there to complain and the manager told me that yes it is way too loud and that he had asked the musicians multiple times to turn it down but that they refused to do so and that he had made the business decision to let them keep playing and not shut them down I have bought a calibrated sound LEL meter to I've got it here to verify what's going on and I have measured sound levels of 80 DBA at the property line of the closest residential property multiple times the maximum allowed level would be 66 DBA please note that decibels work logarithmically so that's not 22% too high but it's more than twice as loud as what is allowed so to me they are either not willing or not capable of keeping the sound level at a a decent level and therefore I ask you to recommend that the exception concerning the the amendment of the exception concerning the Amplified music will be rescinded thank you for hearing me thank you Rafael appreciate your comments yes sir how are you uh my name is Bob tabini I'm a local musician I'm also a uh I'm the on the board of directors of two local Southwest Florida Charities uh I've also was the entertainment director of the lon Kai so I um I you know I play Margaritaville I play Pink Shell I've got a very um extensive experience in the subject we're talking about that could be verified um the thing about the sound levels I was playing a show and it might have been entered into the record when I was watching this gentleman that just spoke come and take the sound sound meters he took the sound readings not only at the property line he came inside during one of my performances I know what a sound meter looks like because I'm a professional I know what this is he walked inside the building proceeded to take photos from inside the tent and Snap photos of those readings those meters can also be manipulated by speaking when you're taking those measurements and when he's talking about the base rattling I've got some details on that when I play and perform there I'm a acoustic performer my voice cannot go lower than the frequency of my guitar the lowest frequency that a guitar can generate is 82 Hertz that's not 82 DB Hertz is the pitch high or low base travels farther than than so the higher the note is it's like a ripple of a wave a deeper wave it's like if you throw a pebble in the water or throw a center block a deeper wider wave so a the wave of a base can penetrate walls it can it it will travel farther and I play the Margaritaville so this is not a an attack on Margaritaville but when their DJ is pumping the base That Base travels farther it is not inconceivable that he could be hearing the base from Margaritaville because those waves travel a base wave goes down to 41 Hertz so the difference in the the technical size of the wave and its ability to travel is really you know when you hear a car go by and you hear that bump bump bump that's the base you're hearing a solo acoustic guitar player cannot generate that bumping base so that bumping base is not coming from these shows and so I want to say that um you know I as someone who's very passionate about the recovery and how you've heard me speak before about this I think such a big part of our culture on for M speech a draw is the live music you know we're not trying to do anything that's going to upset any neighbors every time I play there I'm telling you the the managers are very digilant about walking around and there's also exceptions allowed for a bump in crowd response if we finish a song and and the crowd makes a bunch of noise that is not Amplified music that is the crowd genuinely enjoying themselves and could that exceed 80 DB it it possibly could I'm not there taking sound measurements and certainly not during my performance but I know that if you walk inside and I I watch the gentleman walk in take his meter out and Snap photos inside from from literally here to that thing inside the building right while I was playing to me that's thank you your time is up but thank you very much I appreciate your comments and no sir unfortunately you can't um uh would anyone else like to speak yes ma'am yes ma'ams whichever one wants to come up first I it's wonderful to be here Lotus Claire um I'm a musician I perform at the whale on Monday evening so I performed last night uh the first thing I want to say is I am in love with Fort Meers Beach um unfortunately due to the hurricane I I'm not a specifically a resident now but I'm in love with Fort Myers Beach because I'm in love with the people um part of the reason that I connected so well with Mike and Dawn is I saw that love for the people and the culture and all of those things that we treasure here on the island um when they bought the well they signed up to be a good neighbor because that's the nature of the beach we love each other as people and neighbors um but they also agreed to impact the economic Vitality of the island and a part of that is live music music is what you know makes us who we are as a as a tourist destination which is a huge economic Factor if not the top one for the island um so I performed last night I can say that Greg is very Vigilant about checking the sound monitoring that you know he gave me the heads up before I performed there I make sure my bass is turned down I'm a solo artist I make sure the bass is turned down when I first play my music I do a sound check I wait for the thumbs up last night I was asked to adjust it just a little little bit it was just a little bit too close for comfort while I was performing I have patrons a lot of which are locals guys so one thing about the well is it's a it's a local spot it's one of those mom and pop businesses that we treasure so much and there's been such a huge fear of losing on the island um so a lot of locals also tourists a lot of the patrons were saying can you please turn it up can you please turn it up obviously I couldn't do that um but the sound is so minimal that when I was singing I literally had to hold my mic this far from my mouth I'm almost not singing into my mic at all um so I feel like it it might be worth considering relieving this barrier on a small business when we have had such a fear obviously things change we all are afraid of change you know nobody wants change we certainly didn't want the change that we were impacted with involuntarily um but in order to remain economically competitive and to provide our locals with this great experience as well as tourists uh I I hope that you'll support small businesses like the whale um that's part of the reason that I perform there and that's the one place on the beach I perform and I thank you for your time thank you very much for your comments is there where's the other lady that would like yes ma'am I'm Karen slamy I actually wrote one of the letters so can I still talk yes okay so I live at 139 poo so I'm the first house standing on our block and I think there's a misconception that those of us who live on poo don't want the whale to succeed we do it's I think it's more um sometimes the music is really really loud if the winter was warmer I could not sit on my back l i now I'm not saying I don't want them to play music I just I there has to be some part it is a residential street there a business on the end that they just have to um think about the neighbors as well and sometimes you know I work with Greg I go to the whale it's not that I don't go there I do and sometimes muc is fine sometimes it's way too loud um you know so I've been here since 2010 I understand that the locals which I consider myself one um want to go to a place but those locals who live on the Block that want to go to bed we need to be considered as well and I get insulted when I hear that maybe I shouldn't live here I'm here for the same reason that everybody else is here we love the area we rebuilt you know we have no intention of leaving but we need to work together as a community and the whale for right now I understand why they have the outdoor music they do have you know I would like to keep it where we can sleep at night and our Windows AR pounding and can I ask them a question question uh go ahead when oh no no oh that's Pandora's Box I no honey no I didn't know so my my whole thing is once like I understand it's more of a short term right now but once the building is built I think we need to keep what's in place and keep the music's inside just so the rest of us who live on the Block in a residential area can live and enjoy our own homes thank you that's all I have to say thank you very much I saw the look on your all's face was like [Laughter] Panic who else would like to speak Tom uh over here are you all just the quiet Zone nobody's going to talk on this side of this of the of the street today that's all right good morning Tom good morning get out my notes Here my name is Tom lump I live at 145 palmo Circle I'm located approximately 200 feet from the whale restaurant I've lived in that same house for 38 years so I consider myself a local uh I too just a go get off of my speech here a little bit I like music too everybody likes music I don't like music that I don't choose I don't like music that interrupts me in my house I have no problem I've come home from a couple of concerts in the last couple of months dread in going back to my house and having to listen to drum beats uh and music that is just there I can't get rid of okay it's just one of those things I like it but when it bothers me it's another story from somebody else's Viewpoint okay um thanks for the opportunity to speak I appreciate it here uh all of you listening and and trying to make these tough decisions um I want to set a stage for you just to kind of get get an idea of of of what I'm talking about I think uh you can imagine a car pulling up to you when you're at a stop sign with subwoofers playing volume turned up rattling your car wondering what's going on and all of a sudden you know the light changes and the light and the car goes away and it's no problem anymore but we've all been in that position I want you to imagine that car that pulled up next to you sitting in front of your house every night for hours and hearing that drum beat and hearing the music play that you didn't chw it's you're home to relax and that's the way I am I work hard all day rebuilding my house doing all kinds of things and I come home to relax I can't relax with situation going on um so I ask you to really think about that car sitting your driveway as I'm I'm talking here okay I'm sure the owners of the whale are good people and they're trying to rebuild their business we've supported the whale for years and with no problems uh I feel uh they did purchase a property with restrictions on it for a reason with uh certain conditions that th those reasons applied back in the 90s just like they do today and that's exactly we're facing the same thing again uh for the past 30 years we've had a great relationship with the restaurant and the No when the noise conditions were in place however history is repeating itself with the resending of the noise conditions at the whale the loud Amplified music has forced me off of my outside deck uh and it also and the volume in the reverberation can be heard and felt inside my house my house is one of the older houses on the Island was built in 1936 I do have insulation I do have hurricane windows I still can hear the sound and I can feel the reverberation in my house Tom I have to ask you to wrap it up your three minutes has expired uh okay I'm sorry I'm 100% opposed to uh continuing uh the allowance of the of the of the music outside I'm not opposed to any inside Music Inside the walls of the building go crazy volume come down don't do it to me when I don't need it at my house thank you Tom thank you appreciate it anyone else wish to speak yes sir I like your shirt thanks my name is David fight uh my wife Julie and I live at 220 polaro Circle and we are here to support Mike and Don in their efforts um we've been here for a long long time we enjoyed the music and contrary to some of the other homeowners we live just a little further away from the whale and are not impacted at all the only time I've ever really known it to be too loud was physically at the whale and there was a band playing some really rock music really loud but that's literally the only time that it really affected us having talked to the the owners and the manager and all the preparations they're going to do for the building I'm encouraged that they're going to see it through I know that it's still going to be another six weeks before they can break ground but I just hope everybody can be patient enough to allow that six weeks to come along and then the noise won't be an issue other than construction noise so I'm here in support of continuing what you need to do anybody else Don uh Dawn Miller I'm owner of the whale and also live on the island first I want to say I do not normally speak in front of everybody so this is not going to go very well I want to start by saying that during the week we stop our music at 7 p.m. at a lower deciel than what our neighbors are allowed to play We also stop at 9:00 p.m. on the weekends I want to add that this this group of people voted to allow Margarita Bill to have extended music Amplified at the full Town levels until 10 p.m. not six or eight weeks ago I also want to add that we do not have any drums at the whale and have not since we were here the last time so the the comment about the drums reverberating is not it it it's not possible that's not happening also I want to add one of the complaints that came in um was uh one of the individuals here speaking today and he called came in at 400 p.m. and was upset that he could hear our trivia guy asking questions on his property I think that that is a level above yeah I mean being um for lack of a better term ridiculous you're going to hear your neighbors talk your neighbors have rights to play music in their property you're going to hear that I don't don't think it's fair to hold whale to a different um um per perspective other than like our neighbors we are in a downtown district everything around us is also downtown um the house behind us on primo and the house behind us on poo our our downtown district um I also want to say that um um I think it was already mentioned so I but I will say that there was testing multiple times inside of our tent you're not supposed to do that it is on the receiving end of the residential side is where you would do your testing and I know we are not going above that level thank you very much anyone else wish to speak seeing no one else raise their hand for forgetting about you all uh nobody oh no Greg okay uh public hearing uh public comment portion is closed um so um LPA members any further questions for staff or for the applicant anyone Don I I just have one question I because I so there have been no for the applicant okay Greg do you want to come back up I I just heard it from the last speaker from Miss Miller but there have been no drums since since we passed the ordinance correct okay so it's maybe just the amplifiers because I drive by every time I drive by I roll down my windows just so I can so I just curious okay so to provide a little clarification on that it it definitely could be base but I would say in about the last three months uh almost all the musicians that we use now are repeat musicians they all know they have to have the absolute base at the lowest of settings that they can have um they know our noise restrictions most of them have figured out exactly what their equipment where they need to be to make sure that we're well within it um and in all honesty if if if our Deb are hitting 72 on the property Corners it's really too loud in the 10 so we we really aim for about 65 on the property Corners at all times U just because I like Dave said occasionally we've had a few different musicians that have come in and just treat it like a rock concert and um as uh one of the gentlemen that spoke the incident that he mentioned um I actually uh cut that band off an hour and 15 minutes before they were supposed to stop playing and it wasn't that they refused to turn it down kept turning it at least acting like they were turning it down it didn't really seem like it was getting anywhere so uh we've never had them back since and I don't plan to um like I said again unfortunately I'm sure my friend Bob over there could probably testify to this a lot of them come in they they they kind of treated it like a rock concert so it's obviously not that so um we've been using a lot of the same musicians that are very aware of our situation um have gotten I feel like quite good at it um we my staff and I you know we really haven't I think it's been probably a month since we've really hit anything over 72 but no drums specifically that was the question no drums cor correct no drums okay thank you very much GRE Anita I have a question I just thought of John can you just pull back a little bit from the mic oh yeah can you hear me oh okay um you have a powerful voice you mentioned what's your best estimate of when the building will be functional and you'll be able to have your music inside uh my bet my best estimate is probably June of 2025 but that's probably a better question for Mike June of 20125 close enough June of 2025 and we um as when we break ground we won't have anything functioning on that on that property it'll just be construction noise as somebody else mentioned so the six the six months extension is will expire I mean they won't use it essentially we would like the extension just to be until we break ground essentially did you say June of 2025 for our building to be operational yes that's more than six months from now no but that there won't be anything there while they're constructing oh okay understood yeah okay okay thank you very much Greg appreciate it no problem um any further questions for staff anyone if not uh discussion you know I have I have a question what and I don't please don't say anything but those of you who spoke complaining about the noise would you raise your hand if you called town hall to log a complaint to code enforcement did you okay um okay uh or the police okay um any other discussion I would just like to piggyback on what Don says every time I drive by um any location that has music I feel it's important for me as an LPA person to lower my windows to see if it seems out of whack and I will tell you that before we had the last meeting I had told them um that I've felt that there were nights when it was loud and I have not had that same situation happen again so I do believe they are hearing what you're saying and trying their best they don't have walls they have plastic so when the building is built it will change everything but they only have a few more weeks or months to continue to be a vital business on this island and you know for that sake I would like to ask for your help in helping them be good neighbors and letting them know if there's an issue but I would like to see them be able to continue so I'm in favor of this okay are you making a motion oh sounded like a Motion sounds like a motion it it did okay without the actual words turned into it okay I'm not sure my computer is still functioning yes okay you know while Jane's fooling around with this I'm glad I don't live next door to the whale I love music and I love the fact that you guys are going to recreate an iconic business on the island that people will love and I will love too but I sympathize with the neighborhood Who and with the gentleman that uh Tom who can't sit on his deck I sympathize with that um I live on Jefferson Street in the middle of the island and the Symphony of chainsaws Hammers and um and I speak Spanish so uh lovely uh Spanish-speaking people yelling at each other on a daily basis is noise that I could do without out but um it goes away and it doesn't last long and it's not as penetrating and as soon as I close my doors or come in off my patio I don't hear that so I sympathize with the neighborhood who has an issue and the neighbors who have an issue and I hate any case having to do with sound because like I said what's loud to me might not be loud to you um I would encourage I would encourage folks who have noise complaints to log those complaints with the town to log them with the town to log them with the sheriff's department uh if you're not getting satisfaction from the property owner because from what the property owner is showing us they're staying in compliance um anyhow go ahead Anita could I could I um offer an amendment sure to to the uh the recommendation of the staff um I think I heard that they'll be breaking ground within 3 months M even less could we amend this to um allow a continuation for a period not to exceed four months in cons in sympathy instead of six in sympathy with because i' totally get it it would drive me nuts too yeah would drive but it is not forever and uh maybe four months is acceptable to my my only thought on that is we all know how easy it is to get permits on Fort Meers Beach so if turns him in tomorrow he should maybe get him by the end of the week but that doesn't always happen and my point is I think that this is season we they need probably every fenny they can make before that to keep moving forward okay Jam you make your motion you make your motion then we'll see if the if an amendment goes anywhere I would like to um move to approve the six-month review uh of the special acess exception allowing for outdoor alcohol sales live entertainment and um with the conditions for approval that were provided the one two three four five six uh conditions for approval a through f is there a second for that motion second set would any would you all entertain Doug's four month as opposed to six months yes or no no no no okay sorry Doug okay uh okay so there's a motion and a second um and is there any discussion further on the motion hearing none Jane your vote I don I Jim I'd like to State the you know I'm sympathetic to the neighbors you're asking us to balance quality of life which we recognize what you're saying versus the support of a local business it is only a 3 to six months inconvenience um I vote Yes Doug I I I'm Tom and I'm sorry and Raphael I'm sorry you're both I mean you're lovely people I'm sorry I'm also going to support the motion what I'm really going to put great faith in Greg both Gregs is that you guys Mike Mike and Greg is that um when somebody comes in and uh and complains uh that you really try to take care of them okay because that's essential um thank you all very much uh the motion passes unanimously and congratulations on your groundbreaking thank you okay the next do you all want to take a quick Break by the way Patrick recuse recuse from that that vote no no break yeah quick break yes okay we're going to take a f minute break I don't know the left side of this room is the next item on our agenda is resolution 2441 sc202 30202 which is 1028 fth Street it's a resolution of the Town Council of the Town Fort Meers Beach Florida approving or approving with conditions or denying a special exception secz 20230 202 which is requesting consumption on premises to allow a bar cocktail lounge within 500 ft of a park for the property located at 1028 fth Street providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date um Jason before we go any further could I ask and I know there are several as a matter of fact maybe we'll can we do it all at once Nancy if there's anybody in the in here who's going to testify as an expert in this case a consultant a planner and anybody could you please stand and let's qualify you or do we not have any experts on this case we don't very good we'll go on okay good morning again Jason SMY senior planner with the town as was mentioned uh during the introduction this is a request to uh approve a use of a bar and cocktail lounge which is a accessory use to the existing restaurant uh this is Mr waves Island Bar and uh the requirement for requesting this is they are looking to be classified as that accessory use for bar and cocktail use uh this was explained in their narrative as a hedge against uh any months in which they might fall below the requirement to keep 51% of their receipts as um food sales the request itself is for a an existing business they had recently opened After the Storm uh but they were they continue to be a restaurant and their narrative uh says that they will continue to be a restaurant so this is again a a hedge against a hypothetical is how they're presenting it uh the requirement is necessary because of their proximity to two of the town's um Parks uh and so I don't mess this up [Laughter] whoa uh the the distance of the park to the closest park is roughly 240 feet uh it was determined during their initial zoning review that their uh seating and their service was all within the building uh they do have a patio area under their roof so they do have windows open up to uh the street but it was determined that they that that use was considered to be within the building during their normal zoning verification to get approval to open as a restaurant staff has opened any questions that she may have and the applicants and the applicants uh representative is here thank you Jason Jason can I just ask Jame were you gonna say something go ahead and I'll could I uh just ask you so um the um the restaurant as it exists as a restaurant has the ability to sell beer and alcohol as it exists they're just this is for the hypothetical or or the potential that they decide to not do food and just let it become a bar yes so theoretically if they decided to just become a bar uh they this would allow them to do that what the difference between how they're functioning today and how they might function in the future really hinges on whether or not their receipts go over that 51% food sales uh that's a requirement set by the state and has been adopted in language in Our Land Development code okay well Jame before you say something could I just ask if anybody has any ex party do you have any Jane No Patrick I spoke with the um the ownership um few months ago when they were first looking at regulatory issues um but it wasn't associated with this okay case uh how about you Don none Jim none Doug none I don't have any IDE Jane um she asked my question so I don't have a question okay uh thank any other questions for Jason thank you Jason we'll call you back up if we need to uh the applicant are you testifying as an as a as a uh I don't have my credentials on file with you all so I'm not sure what the requirement would be that's why we need to that's would you tell list your credentials please yeah my name is Keith long uh for the record I am an attorney with long law here on behalf of the applicant uh in this case which is waves Allen bar limited partnership uh so first of all thank you for allowing me the opportunity wait wait hold on oh we have a little process here yeah uh what is your field of expertise I am an alcoholic beverage law attorney and a land use attorney as it pertains to alcoholic beverage excellent may I have a motion please to accept the gentleman as an expert in this field so movees s second okay is there any any objection to the motion you are officially an expert look at that I thought that was easier than law school yeah I did think it was kind of cute the way you started that with I am an alcoholic and I was like is he doing alcohol alcohol the first step is admittance that's right no I um again my name is Keith long for the record here on behalf of the applicant uh just to provide further context and clarification I guess because it is sort of a nuanced uh request as I'm sure you you've noticed um the way that it works and the precipice for how we got here is the the uh the restaurant is currently existing as a restaurant has been for several months now uh in my understanding in large part in harmony with the community and um and they've been widely received but what happens in in this industry sometimes and particularly in areas such as this where it's more of a tourism driven industry um is that the the restaurant component which is the required by the state alcoholic beverage law uh to maintain at all times 51% or more of revenue from non-alcoholic Beverages and food um at any point in time can skew one way or the other by a few points in that nature and so as a beverage law attorney I can also say that the the state uh governing body for the liquor licenses takes a strict adherence to that requirement they audit you on a regular basis and I believe um which is unique admittedly I work all over the state that you all's codes also provide you the opportunity to audit um these individuals to maintain that 51% compliance and so what happens is you've got a business that um subject basically to the consumption uh rates of the uh public in general which fluctuates depending on the month for spring break for example Etc and so what this is is we in order to alleviate the need to maintain that 51% you are required by law to place into the location what's called a 4op quota alcoholic beverage license which comes at a significant cost um upwards of a half a million dollars and so what this is is is requesting uh you all's approval to allow us to place that into the location so that we are not uh the applicant is not jeopardizing uh the significant amount of money that they've put into the location uh by a few percentage points give or take depending on uh when the beverage law decides that they want to be audited the uh it's administrative in nature it's sort of a benign use is the way that I'm presenting it the restaurant will continue outwardly to the public in the same manner that it has uh operated um they will maintain uh the menu does not change like someone else had indicated they currently do sell beer Wine and Liquor uh for consumption on premise and so outwardly nothing changes inwardly this allows us to place this license into the location and so the last little bit of clarification is that the barcocktail lounge classification that you all here to approve um is required during the in the code for us to place that license there because it is essentially a bar cocktail license by removing legally the requirements of the 51% or more food service that's not the intent of the applicant to uh to go full bar uh or nightclub or any of that they maintain uh they will continue their obligations uh to you here to to operate as a restaurant well thank you very much um do we have questions for the gentlemen Doug no ma'am how about you Jim the applicant has uh no intention of not serving food if it drops below the 51% no sir no the operations will continue as they have since the beginning of uh the opening of the restaurant thank you you have any questions I don't how about you Don I just want if so the applicant wouldn't have a problem with a condition stating such what they're they're offering is that they would continue they'll always continue to uh I mean you said a few percentage points sure they're concerned they might run down to you know that their alcohol ends up being you know higher than than their food right their consumption correct yeah that's the nature of the request yes sir okay so so the applicant wouldn't have a problem with a condition that said you can't exceed 55% you know alcohol or would depend on that I mean I think uh with respect to you and and the staff I I I'm not we could but I can also tell you that that portion of the code that I referred you all to as far as your the town's uh ability to audit it's my understanding that the town has never enacted that it's quite a significant undertaking and I'm not sure that we would want to obligate them to that I can tell you that I'd be happy to put that something similar on the record I think what I see more often in these cases cuz I do this quite a bit uh is that I don't imagine that they would have any issues and um I have to confirm with them if that was something that the board collectively wanted to to offer food uh at all times that they are open that's something that I see a lot as a as a condition just to kind of as a good faith uh acknowledgement that isn't an obligation on staff or the town's resources to you know tie them to you know routine audits Etc thank you thank you very much Patrick any questions none thank you very much we appreciate it my pleasure thank you all for the opportunity to speak okay so uh now left side it might be your turn to stand up uh this is uh we are opening the public hearing or the public comment portion of this would anyone like to speak thank goodness okay come on the first red shirt up you were you sworn in earlier yes you were thank you hello um my name is Daniel clarkon I'm one of the general Partners from uh waves Island Bar um limited partnership um we've been open for um round about four month and two weeks right now um we've been uh through three month of very cold days and everything um I'm glad that changed um I just want to make sure that um we have no intention with this request to completely transition into a nightclub or bar um pretty much much half of our inside um square footage area is our kitchen um we are we were always intended to offer food we just started breakfast about two month ago which is super popular um we're opening very pretty much in the morning at 9: at 9:00 a.m. and um all the workers on the island and and the residents as well they we have a lot of regulars already that come for our breakfast and um and our Bloody Marys as well so um which uh yeah just pretty pretty well received by everyone um it is like uh uh Keith long said pretty much just a precaution for us not to run in any uh legal issues to then not be allowed to serve hard liquor anymore um but uh yeah there may I ask you would you agree to a provision that said you must require we must have food available for your hours of operation absolutely I would I would agree to that yeah no problem thanks for being here okay thank you who else would like to speak anyone else God you have to pull it out of them good afterno my name is Mike bomarito hello Mike with Mr waves I have a question when you are going to stipulate that the kitchen is open during the hours of operation not what I said okay that I just wanted to clarify it because the kitchen typically closes about 9: whereas we stay stay open a little bit later than that and that may also be skewing the numbers a little bit so I just want to make a comment I appreciate that thank you so much anybody else have any comments are you waving your hair with the cool hair come on line them up I do love the hairo it's very cool my name is Pam shank and I am the kitchen person at Mr waves and I just want to say that um the owners and I'm not going to look at them the owners and all of the employees there they are great people they have given a lot of jobs to some workers you know they have brought in a lot of jobs and I honestly believe if you allow us to continue to do what we're doing that it will bring even more in with us being right there facing the bridge and we're the first ones that they actually see when they come over the bridge so I just think it's very important I work a lot of hours now but I will be willing to try to stretch a little bit more hours if we can keep this license for them that's I just wanted to say that thank you I'm glad you got up to say something thank you yes sir how you doing my name is Chris tremble I'm the am bartender there I've been there since the beginning and like Daniel said it's been a slow start for us due to the weather and the cold and you know us being an I've opened up uh Snug Harbor years ago when they first opened and I know how it is to open a business on the island I've seen it to get a your feet in the sand you know and start to grow it takes time effort and trial and error um now that we' served breakfast we have people like lined up out the door soon as I open those Gates people are coming in and um so the the food sales is definitely going up and a lot of people that walk in they state that oh you're a you're a restaurant you're a bar CU they think we're that svanir shop that used to be there so now that you know the name the name's getting out there and they're learning and and they're starting to see oh and they come in too with their families like we became we have no intention to become like a bar or a nightclub or the night spot cuz I also bartend at leaky Tiki and I know that had his issues at times um so I know like we are becoming like a family a family orientated restaurant establishment and people are coming in they're s they're talking really highly about us they love coming and we just like to have the chance to prove to you guys that we belong and fit into this community and we'll just keep pushing bar higher as it comes at us thank you so much thanks for being here anybody else okay seeing no one else we'll close this down I see them um did somebody say something any closing comments yes I was going to ask him that he's walking back one one quick point of clarification Since U Margaritaville continues to be a point of reference at these meetings I understand uh is that they currently operate the license that we're requesting uh your approval to utilize in our location and of course they're right across the street um I just thought that was worth noting to the board thank you thank you very much any further questions for the gentleman no any further questions for staff no any discussion on this issue no anybody have a motion I'd make a motion to accept the uh staff recommendation to Grant the exception uh with with the condition that's in the staff's recommendation Doug how about and that food be available which could mean some Lance crackers food be available during hours of operation and that um food be available during hours of operation thank you I'll second that motion that way you don't have to be in there actually whipping up eggs uh okay is there any discussion on the motion hearing none uh Doug your vote I I vote I how about you Jim hi how about you Jane hi and Don hi and Patrick hi congratulations guys you know my store local color was right in back of you and I wish it was still there because Mike the color of my building would match your hair anyhow congratulations and uh welcome to Fort Meers Beach yeah okay next item on the that just made me sad all right next what happened to my agenda is leaving hold on one second I got I got jumbled up here as usual where's the second page I do thank you thank you Jim the next item on the agenda is resolution 2440 secz 20230 293 which is 9233 Street um this is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying a special exception scz 202 23293 which is requesting a special exception from LDC 34- 3238 2 e4a which requires an increase to the number of residential bedrooms which may be developed while utilizing the post- disaster build back ordinance for the property located at 9233 Street providing for clarifications is necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors separability and providing for an effective date um Doug do you have any exp parte on this no ma'am how about you Jim no Jane no Don No Patrick none I don't have any either although I do know the owner of this property um okay Jason good afternoon Jason SMY senior planner with the town as was mentioned uh this is a request for a special exception on 9233 Street uh this is a special exception that was recently added to the code uh through the approval of a ordinance by Town Council uh that dictates the the policy that says that if uh somebody utilizing the post disaster build back whereas previously you would have been Limited in the number of rooms that you could redevelop they the Town Council has offered a pathway to request additional bedrooms and that's what the applicant is requesting today uh as I mentioned before recently the applicant has come in for a variance on their property um that variance was approved there was an administrative variance that was existing from 2007 that continues to be in effect what they've requested today is the uh allowance to increase the total number of bedrooms to six bedrooms under uh lee property appraisers information which is the best available information that staff has right now uh they are listed as having three bedrooms uh staff has done a brief analysis of the surrounding area and we've come to the conclusion that there is approximately an average of three bedrooms in the remaining structures I would caution that this was post storm so I did not I did not have the capability to go back and see all of the information and all of the structures in that area that existed pre-storm these are just structures that existed today so that May that may skew that number just a bit but you saw you've seen the analysis in in the U staff report um the applicant is going to be required to develop a normal number of parking spaces that was discussed during their variance approval and as one of the conditions of approval staff is recommending that if this were to be approved that the Town Council consider uh adding a requirement to pardon me to devel velop uh buffers to help uh sort of mitigate any possible increase in noise or nuisance uh from the increase into six bedrooms staff is available for any questions that you may have on this and then the applicant is here as well thank you Jason um Jim questions the applicant's position is that there were four existing bedrooms prior to Ian correct I I believe so yes we can staff cannot establish that through the record though Doug do you have any questions for staff um no ma' okay um Jane my thing is dead so I um can't really look at my pictures but the footprint of this property is that going to be expanded and is that why they need the variances for the setbacks so the variance were were excuse me the variances were requested for an additional level that was being that was being added uh they were going to bump out to the the minimum required setback of 7 1/2 ft the variance also implicated uh the development of a uh new uh deck and then the raising of an existing deck and then the deck uh that was existing and now being raised would then uh protrude into the minimum 25 ft setback and that necessitated having a variance along with uh the addition of 100 approximately 100 square ft of additional roof space up and above the 40% Max that's generally on uh applied to single family third floor is what is extending out past the ground setback they would have two they would have two decks sorry they would have two decks one deck uh at the first first level would be allowed under current code to protrude an additional 10 ft the existing deck that was being raised up would also sit in that 10-ft protrusion area and so that necessitated having a varans because you can only have that additional protrusion as long as it serves the first level of the of the home not any additional levels above it I never heard that before it I had some questions but I think you you may have answered those I I think I recall that variance coming before us uh they had 3D renderings of the home with with pretty significant decks up front um so so my question was and and I think you may have answered that I wasn't sure if we were looking at the um Provisions that apply to rebuilding with greater than 50% damage versus Under the 50% and I believe it's greater than 50% if they're rebuilding the whole thing and the other thing that I wasn't quite clear in the in in the application was if it had been uh lifted at this point or not and I think nothing's occurred is that correct that is correct as far as I know he has not applied or received uh building permits for lifting or any of the other uh development so so other than the variances obtained these Provisions would require that he meet current uh regulations unless he's he's already obtained a variance correct uh the only thing that would not meet those the normal Building Development standards are those variances that were approved presented and then the request to expand the number of rooms to six perfect Jane the ground level living space that is not going to be lifted or used is that correct so as part of the uh the revision into the post- disaster build back policy it was determined by Town Council that any of the non-habitable but under roof area that existed so in this case a ground level apartment or even a um carport for instance could now be utilized for habitable space so that area is being transferred up to one of the other uh two levels that he is developing but as far as I know that ground floor area is going to be meeting all of the minimum uh flood codes which limits use down there to storage parking and access okay Patrick is this a perfect case for a development agreement with deviation it would simplify because you could come in with with one diagram and show it on the diagram and explain everything because it it it all works in concert with each each other you know obviously the variances were needed to make it happen and now uh taking that extra square footage putting upstairs allows them to create more room so perfect example of a site plan with deviation would simplify the process it would have been nice to look at the whole project yeah instead of piece and peace excuse me any other questions for Jason thank you Jason you're welcome Chris are you going to present where's I don't I didn't bring Lifesavers this time J I know we're all we were all expecting them good morning my name is Christopher moero I'm the homeowner at 9233 Street I didn't have the opportunity to stand before you all um at my last variance hearing I was out of town so I like to I was over the phone my engineer was here so it is nice to be able to put um see some faces today um just to reiterate what what Jason said um my previous variances were for my front deck of my home um it's currently on the uh on the uh I guess second floor of the house that is going to be pushed up to a third floor of the house and the town code doesn't allow a deck in on the third floor of the house um today we're looking at increasing the number of bedrooms that is allowed um the Town Council has approved in the post- disaster build back policy so since my home is a duplex um I live in one half and my intention is to rent the other half um I can increase I could I guess um keep the same square footage under my roof line however I cannot increase the number of bedrooms unless I come here and ask for a special exception so that's really what I'm here today doing um my first floor of my home uh previously had one bedroom two beds in it um along half of the home the other half was a carport so under the policy I'm allowed to expand my square footage utilizing that carport space but again I have to come here and ask for more bedrooms um Lepa is old data leipa has my home at a three-bedroom two bath home um that was incorrect it does have my home as a duplex it had that piece right um but there were more bedrooms than that um looking at the all the other homes in my neighborhood leapa is not right um I'm sure we experienced that all the time but the leapa average um of homes like Jason said is 3.2 bedrooms um the actual average is more like 4.3 bedrooms of what people actually have in my neighborhood there's 19 homes in my neighborhood my neighborhood I call is um matanzas view it's it's a unique very unique area on the island it's um straddled between old San Carlos and Mos Marina it's Third Street um Harbor Court and B Street there are 19 current structures on our home or 19 current structures and homes um still post storm now nine of nine of them are duplexes Chris just put that push that here comes Jacob wow is that is something [Music] else so there there are 19 um structures remaining post storm um in our neighborhood nine of them are duplexes it's a it's a transient neighborhood um five of those five of those homes or five of those buildings are full-time rentals there's no one ever there besides renters part-time residents snowbirds consist about um four of those buildings when they're not here they're rentals um and the full-time residents that exists all five of us they're all duplexes and they're all rentals so this is not an intrusion on our neighborhood our neighborhood um is energized by the downtown district um it's a r it's a it's a weekly rental neighborhood it's a transient rental neighborhood um coming before you all um in the next couple months will be the development of mos Marina as well that the back of my property Shar is is a shared property line with MOS Marina if one more bedroom's um approved on that property it's it's more than they had pre- storm so again that's all I'm asking Town Council did have this plan in place to allow um people to ask for more bedrooms so that's that's what I'm here today I do support um just to put in some other sense if there is any sort of way to to expedite this process or to make this process easier for homeowners I would encourage you all to empower you all to do that I applied for my first very ience in July I'm hoping to break ground and and start my project here in April um it's been a long process Town Town staff has been more than willing to meet with me and answer all my questions and has been super supportive um the entire way but it's been a long difficult and expensive process to get here before we haven't even started construction yet thank you affirm that you're asking for more bedrooms but you are not asking for more units is that correct correct the house will remain a duplex square footage um is the increased square footage is allowed I'm asking for more bedrooms Patrick that is such an interesting point because I don't think people get that I don't know what I don't know why I've lost my ability to speak which could be a good thing um Don any questions no questions Jane I have one for staff hold done go ahead um Jim you have received a copy of the staff report yes and the conditions if it's approved are acceptable um I don't think we'll have any issues meeting um parking conditions again the ground floor of the home is going to be stilt and only parking um I did have a I don't understand what the Landscaping requirements are at their bedrooms um I'm not sure how Landscaping is going to create a offer for bedrooms that are 15 ft up in the air but I'm happy to explore that and do anything that's that's needed yeah thank you thank you Chris uh Doug any questions for Chris um what's hard for me is to really understand what we're talking about I mean we're talking about more bedrooms I get that but I don't have a picture of what the existing structure was and what it's going to look like in the future so um Chris do you want to explain that to seems hard to squeeze more have wondering if you would like to see it it was a part of my variance package because that was kind of a bigger ask this post disaster build back policy got modified after my variances so that's why I'm here again um but I I do have pictures basically um we called it the sandwich house at the first LPA hearing so um there's an existing floor up on stilts that is going to get lifted up to a third floor I'm going to build the new second floor and beneath it that's where I need my more bedrooms and then parking is just going to ground floor is going to be parking so previous to storm was just the house on stilts and enclosed parking beneath they're more or less doubling the square footage of the carport they're possible because of the carport yep and half lower level beneath yeah okay uh any other questions for Chris okay thank you very much Chris um Jane you had a question for Jason um he said that the a balcony is not permitted on a third floor there everywhere how is that not right uh well let me clarify because this is kind of a a unique scenario that we haven't run into so the previous deck that he had would be allowed to utilize that additional 10 ft because it serves the first never mind so now the the higher level get it okay thank you Jason okay public comment would anybody here like to make public comment on this case seeing none the public comment is closed is there any discussion from the LPA on this case if not may I have a motion please I'll move to approve with st with um staff recommendations for with yeah exceptions okay and is there a second for that motion second so there motion made by Don and seconded by Jane to approve with the staff recommendations uh any further discussion uh don your vote I Jane I Patrick I Jim I Doug I I congratulations Chris good luck I think his was more tosy turby than my fence okay next item on the agenda uh the final item on our agenda the final hearing is ordinance 24 why is it- XX why did I just realize this but anyway um DCI rezoning 20231 94 this is 3051 Estero Boulevard this is the 7-Eleven an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying the commercial plan development CPD zoning for the uh property located at 3051 Estero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 29-4 6-24 DW 1-120 c0100 Fort Meers Beach it's providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scribers errors severability and providing for an effective date do I want to know something funny I got an email asking what the heck a scrier error is why do you always talk about scrier error um okay may I ask if there's any LPA member that has um Patrick has already said he's recused from this um anybody have any exp parte Communications Don no no Jane Jim no Doug no I don't either okay Sarah good morning Sarah I am not looking forward to uh going through all the deviations because I'm sure that at some point this is going to start making a lot of noise so my apologies uh Sarah propes with Community Development the neighborhood company on behalf of the Southland Corporation the property owner for 3051 Estero Boulevard has applied for a commercial plan development rezoning to redevelop the property on the corner of Vorhees Street and a sterile Boulevard with a convenience store the Commercial Boulevard zoned property was the site of a 7-Eleven store and gym prior to Hurricane Ian a convenience store was pre previously on site but the Commercial Boulevard zoning District does not allow the convenience store or gas pump use in order to rebuild the convenience store with gas pumps a commercial plan development is necessary the requested CPD also includes several deviations requ deviation requests from the Land Development code uh for site design they're requesting a deviation from the vehicle access separation um from section 10- 285 the code requires a minimum separation distance on a stero of 250 ft however the access point on a stero is going to be 97.7 ft from the Vorhees Street uh Center Line on local streets the code requires 125 ft of Separation the proposed site would provide 73 ft from the Santos sorry not Santos from the Estero uh intersection nope that's the wrong measurement my apologies um so it's in your staff report the correct distance uh a deviation is being requested from section 10- 416 um to decrease the minimum type c buffer width requirement of 15 ft for a type c buffer uh so the deviation would allow a minimum width of 3 feet from for the portion of the property that directly abuts the dumpster um on the northeastern boundary uh they're requesting a deviation from LDC section 3474 a which requires build two lines for a sterile Boulevard to be established 5 to 10 ft from the front property line uh a deviation would allow for a build to line of 5 to 90 ft instead the proposed building would be located 89.9 ft from a sterile Boulevard with the uh fuel pumps forward of that there are question ing a deviation from section 3476 D to allow access from a sterile Boulevard and Vorhees Street the code requires that if a site has access to a secondary Street and a stero that the access must be from the secondary street they're requesting a deviation from 3474 b1a which requires a minimum Street minimum Street setback for streets other than a sterile Boulevard to be 10 ft the deviation would allow a minimum of zero foot setback from Vorhees Street a deviation from LDC 34744 b4d which requires screening a refuse container to not exceed uh 6 feet in height the deviation would allow the refuse container screen enclosure screening enclosure to be a maximum of 6 F feet 6 in No 7 ft 6 in in height uh the request matches up with what the Town Council had requested for the other um 7-Eleven at 1301 Estero the proposed de development request should be evaluated according to section 3485 B and C and 34216 of the LDC these findings and conclusions are listed in the staff report deviations must be approved or modified or rejected per the findings in section 34 2164 these findings can be found in the staff report also several conditions are listed in the staff report including a requirement to replace any Landscaping damaged during construction as the proposed wall appears to be very close to the hedges that are existing on the neighboring property staff is available for any questions and the applicant is also here okay um questions for Sarah Doug do you have any uh no I don't okay how about you Jim no I don't Jane not at this time Don I just want to double check the E Ingress ESS for the you know for the I'm looking at like off of orhe back where it says optional electric vehicle charging looks like there's parking and there's a 24ot is that that's standard the 24t passage the the width yes okay and then are the EVS are they part of this plan are um that that may be in the current plan but they did want to show it in case they wanted to do that in the future um we did discuss whether that could be used for parking uh for their parking numbers and um we discussed signage that they could put up that would ensure that it was still available for parking or for Ev use when that was installed okay so there would be room for parking back in that area yes okay thank you I had the same question about Vorhees um okay Jane did you have any questions the zero lot line off of Vorhees it is I mean that is part of what we were trying to get businesses to come forward and and and have everything else in the back but they can't meet that because of their pumps and things like that that would be costly to have to move to a different location so having it at zero lot line on Vorhees how do you think that will affect any incoming vehicles from that street I don't know that it would affect any vehicles um there is it's a standard easement so there is a decent amount of depth between the actual roadway and that property line um so they're they're not going to feel like they're right on the road at this point so what what was their setback prior it was a bit more than that um the difference now is that they shifted away from that side Lot line that's adjacent to the apartment complex so now there's room to drive around on that side and is there going to be other businesses in this building or is it just going to be 7-Eleven it appears that it's just proposed to be 7-Eleven at this time okay thanks that's okay thank you very much SAR now we'll have the applicant hi Fred nice to see you Ken oh ken I always confused Fred that's a new one I confus I can't wait to use that at the whale hi Ken it's nice to see you yes uh good afternoon I'm Ken gler I've been sworn in uh and I've been recognized as an expert uh before you regardless of what I call you yes you can call me whatever but as but just not light for dinner right uh so uh we're here uh with our second of three uh 7-Eleven petitions for the resoning um and I do have a short presentation uh just to start off uh full agreement with uh what Sarah presented and the staff report and conditions but I'd be happy to go through uh this it's only about 50 slides so we should be able to be done here pretty no I'm just just kidding okay so the humor of planners isn't it so but uh uh so again our project team we have everybody here uh the property owner southon which is uh the 7-Eleven group um uh the neighborhood company which is the land use and planning component of it uh J.R Evans the engineering and kraton uh for the construction and development so all of our experts here are available to answer questions uh the presentation overview do a little background of the request uh discussion analysis and findings and conclusion Sarah described uh the Project's location uh future land use category it is a relatively larger parcel obviously because of the existing conditions to support uh the prior convenience store and gym and this again had has a fueling uh pumps um existing uses uh uh surrounding uses we have a stero Boulevard vhe ride of ways uh a mixture of residential structures both vacant and occupied uh vacant fire station uh commercial land and uh some surrounding Park uh parking lots this is representation of the property and the existing structure prior to Ian um you can see the uh we have a access point off of uh Estero here a pretty wide on Bor bores here and another uh on the portion of the Northern or uh that portion of the property um end this bit little button right when it work oh there we go uh again our request uh the prior existing uh development was approximately 6200 Square ft uh we're looking at about a 5,000 000 squ ft store uh the maximum f is uh a 1.0 which would allow for over 30,000 square ft so we're well below that as pointed out we have one access point off of ferero and maintaining the two access points off of bores obviously the intent is to improve on what was previously existed there bring that back and also through this process we want to reduce or eliminate any non-conformities that may be out there and comply with any FEMA uh standards that would be applicable here and going through the CPD process provides us that flexibility to work with staff work with the Town come up with a property for this relatively unique shaped uh property location we are in the quiet uh Center of uh Estero Island uh we won't be having any drums or Bass playing at this uh use but uh but you just never know but uh we're going to bring back uh highly utiliz ized and key commercial uh use with fuel options uh we're maintaining this ideal location of providing for goods and services to the residents and visitors uh we still feel it's complimentary and compatible with the surrounding uses utilizing our appropriate setbacks buffering open space site design uh ensures that compatibility as well um and we are not aware of any negative impacts that the convenience store use had prior uh to the storm you know it's a little small on the screen but this is the uh Master concept plan that we've developed as we was discussed previously the building is uh relocated farther towards Bor Street uh with that zero setback this does allow for improved uh maneuverability especially for the fueling trucks and uh service trucks and uh to get through to the property plus also moves the use uh farther away from those residential uh properties uh to the Northwest and Northeast also yes uh there are proposed opportunities for the electric uh uh stations for uh Vehicles so just to provide for that uh overall opportunity for any type of fueling and recharging of vehicles and UPF front are obviously the uh fueling station uh fueling pumps we're consistent with uh the LDC and comprehensive plan uh is enabling us to Redevelopment redevelop the property uh we're consistent with the comp plan goals uh we're working to provide for that pedestrian connectivity through connecting of the sidewalks both interior and to the rights of way uh design standards uh wanting to br build back a uh attractive and aesthetically pleasing uh new development uh this is the elevations of the 7-Eleven proposed this is uh the substantial uh dumpster and uh Solid Waste enclosures including uh Recycling and again uh we're seeking that deviation consistent with how the Town Council felt for others just to ensure that this uh achieves more of that compatibility the location of the dumpster enclosure is exact same place as the prior uh dumpster existed the uh renderings of the proposed development looks great thank you uh oh now I hope that gas price isn't [Laughter] $8 probably meant to be zeros but I would pick another number yeah uh and again consistent with the Land Development code again intent of reducing eliminating nonconformities obviously Urban Services exist and support the prior convenience store and we're not intending to negatively impact traffic being a Redevelopment of a existing impacted site no environmental impacts and just reestablishing a resilient uh store with fueling options as appropriate in this Central area of the town before on could you back up to the other screen I've got a question for you this one nope the image one before yep I pressed the button it's okay it's thinking well while it's thinking uh my my question so this is in my neighborhood uh I call this my 7-Eleven um you how you've got this uh where the sign is with the gas price that is that's Vorhees right and you've actually got that curbed that has always been um the the pavement always degrades there it's always just been a mess so do you actually plan to do this where you're going to improve and sort of isolate that corner so that nobody's going to like me just make a diagonal turn to the gas pump if you follow what I'm saying I'd have to turn on Vorhees or come up whatever so that Island will kind of be there understand what I'm saying yes and I I'll confirm with the engineers as they've helped design this great so it would just be a nice Improvement to that corner because that corner you know how that corner always is it's just awful I don't know where those cars are going to go to get in exactly and to ensure that there's curbing that helps ensure the cars yeah just so it creates the place because because um uh historically it's been a pool of mess it's just it just you know and people just it's all been open so people just go and come as they as they will we're looking maybe at this now no that's all right we're looking at potentially this spot here yeah so that will be correct me if I'm wrong uh Brandon it'll be curbed and it'll be a landscaped area that would restrict cars from go on top of that plus you want the sign right so BR and fry for the record um the existing AIS is a little closer to a stero which I think facilitates that diagonal entry into the 7-Eleven we're pushed back just a few feet and we will have Curb to as kenned mentioned protect s uh protect the sign and uh help to prevent those diagonal forever and to prevent uh those diagonal entries okay perfect it it'll be a big Improvement for the street I have a question because of all the parking on the back side of it um I'm saying the back as to the trash can side of it okay um there is a door there is that going to be an accessible door or just an emergency door to access the property nobody ever parks there to go into 7eleven I know but they're going to have this place yeah yeah the microphone here you go everybody join in Mark Aon I'm with 7-Eleven I've been with 7-Eleven for uh 24 years nice to meet you nice to meet you uh this is a diagram of what we call our new prototype store and that typically is a door that is open for customers to come in in this prototype that's that's different from what we've had in the past so you would you would enter there and the sales counter would be at your left restroom food when you come in the bik I just think that'll eliminate a lot of the craziness around the pumps of backing out and all that if they go to the B something well while we're talking about the East Elevation and you did such a nice job with a mural on the last one um you know blank walls offer an opportunity uh I don't know if you've ever used fandel or graphic or another but um it it seems like there's an opportunity there to do something more than just a plank walk yeah and but just to clarify I pulled up our elevations here so this would be I'm trying to get there can you see the little dot this is the elevation facing Vorhees there are windows and so there's going to be an element of more architectural uh parts of the building rather than utiliz about e the back the back oh the top picture yeah it was the top picture top of top sketch of that there right there right there okay right very good Vanna thanks Vanna yeah let's all have new names yeah yeah so I we will I think uh we can discuss that opportunity with the team you know it would be nice as a theme for the new 7-Eleven on the island to have some uh artistic flare to them as as Jim is suggesting could be very interesting I'm excited about this when coming back okay good go ahead uh gas on the island let's see uh so I'll just conclude really uh we're again agreement with the staff report recommendation of approval with the stated conditions and uh we respectfully request a recommendation of approval by the LPA to the Town Council thank you Fred uh you're welcome is um does anybody else from your team wish to make any sort of presentation are they here for backup mainly for backup excellent okay um any questions for um for Ken anyone I think we asked you along the way thank you very much is there any public comment on this case seeing none we'll close the public comment any discussion on this I did you know I Ken I know I said this to you the last 7-Eleven but I really have to compliment you on your presentations it's concise it's it it's just it's very well put together thank you um I think you could call me Lillian today I don't know I was thinking Fred Barney Wilma all right um any any discussion on this case if if not any full follow-up questions for the staff if not may I have a motion to approve or deny I'd make a uh Mr Doug Amman I'll make a motion to uh for the LPA to recommend approval of DCI 2023 0194 with the uh conditions uh recommended by staff with the uh not actually a condition but a um recommendation that they consider artistic uh mural on the wall on the back entrance something similar that we looked at on the other 7-Eleven store up near Time Square okay is there a second to that motion second there's a motion by Doug and a second by Jim any discussion on the motion with Patrick being recus Doug your your uh vote I Jim yes Jane I don I yes congratulations thank you very much we look forward to them okay next item on the agenda is a discussion about accessory structures um does anybody want a quick two minute break um anybody I do uh but you know what Jane you could go ahead do you want to go on with this we're we're gonna take a five minute break skipped a couple of sections what okay members items report attorney items report all right we'll call the meeting back to order and the next next item on the agenda is the administrative agenda does the administration have anything Amy thank you so much Amy what is our next scheduled meeting do we have that scheduled yet it's it's the comp plan meeting 27th at oh I'm sorry today's the 27th 12th of March at oh at 9: and then March 14th at 11 or somewhere close into that time frame in other words you don't you're not clear on it yet well the keeps changing okay but the 12th and the 14th thank you very much LP Anita just a piggybacking on that the the the content of those meetings I think Anita mentioned is that going to be the comp plan the the 12th is your regular LPA meeting and then the 14th is going to be comp plan only and with regard regards to um you bringing back any of those development agreement options when would that take place that is something we are working on okay so so I think I think the first step is really going to be we need to update the ordinance that allows for this and then once we so so looking at the material that the uh attorney had put together so getting that in the ordinance adopted and then coming up with some structure on how we want it to look um but right now the code doesn't really even it says you can but it doesn't tell you much more than that so giving it some structure with what the attorney is proposing I think it's the first step and then we're going to be getting into the nitty-gritty on how we want it to look um the last hearing was a joint hearing um where the last hearing where we discussed this it was a joint hearing and I I didn't get a clear response and a clear understanding of the direction that was desired so I think that's where I'm a little bit stuck right now um but I think that the first step is adopt some language to allow it through the ordinance with the attorney and then while we're doing that process get more details yeah and and you know just I I I understand that you guys are swamped right now and you have a lot on your plate I get it there's any way you know for for the town manager community development director if if we can can provide a little assistance and get this moving quickly I I just think those options would provide a lot of relief and and streamline things for people we had a good example today of how it could help so if there's any way this can come back to us sooner than later that'd be great okay um LPA items and reports Doug do you have anything no how about you Jim I don't want to steal James Thunder but um at the last meeting she brought up uh the situation at both pinkf and at the uh rud shrimp and has there been any communication do we understand how these places continue to operate without proper approval Nancy Sarah I believe um I mentioned it to um either the town manager or the uh or to Frankie um but it's kind of out of my ballpark that point you know to to me at least having discussions with with multiple people on on this issue I would just encourage or the town manager of Frankie to to perhaps come to us and explain it and I think I think with a little explanation would clarify things it's a little complicated that would be very that would be welcomed and let's make it an official request so then I would like to add uh that part of that discussion also deal with the uh the queen of weed bus that's uh been located at Time Square I don't have to bring up anything now today that's Point um I just want to add to I don't know the details um however one of the primary goals of Code Enforcement is to bring them into compliance so there may be some ongoing discussions that I'm not privy to um but I just wanted to add that out there because sometimes you know a violation is is viewed um but there's a lot of work that's going on behind the scenes and they can they can bring you up to speed yes exactly thank you Jim uh Jame any items just want to say what a great Gayla the uh Lovers Key Foundation did over the weekend it was a very nice um event and uh made lots of money for the Lovers Key and I think it was just beautifully done on generators only they still don't have power there so it was pretty impressive Don anything uh only with respect to the March meetings uh if there's I think I had mentioned to Amy I'm going to be remote so if there's any way to do that via Zoom it's difficult to hear on the cell phone are you going to be uh remote on both of them Don okay yeah we won't have power that week at our building either so I'm okay going to use it for a trail okay um Patrick anything uh piggybacking on on what Jan was saying uh other great events that we've had recently the Mrs rer event with over 300 M uh Mrs rers running round town was amazing yes it was a great time and then um the uh PTO for the Beach Elementary School just had a cornhole tournament that was very successful great time was at by all wonderful another another great event and it's it's it's so much fun seeing residents and and kind of our seasonable seasonal people come back and enjoy all these activities so great time great good um so I also had the development agreement on my list of topic so uh I think it would be good to have it come back to us as soon as possible um I also had the uh business and Time Square on my list but it isn't the business I was talking to Nancy at length about this today it isn't so much the business uh I would really I think you all will remember when the after the hurricane the Town Council generously decided to wave or in their emergency ordinance create an ability for existing Beach businesses to operate in temporary situations you remember tuna skin had a trailer moms the goods another good example Tom at laola was a first one out uh it also in that same effort allowed folks to live in a trailer or a mobile home on their property and that was the uh that was the effort and and the sincere wonderfulness of their of their move to let business people try to stay in business and Thrive uh Beach whales another good example what has happened unfortunately is that there is this proliferation of mobile vendors which the town prohibits and uh and so something like what you just brought up Jim is not a business that was previously on Fort Meyers Beach it's just somebody who's come to leas space and that is not at all what was in that provision so I'm I'm saying this in a public meeting to encourage the Town Council and the town staff to revisit that and it's going to be difficult because people are going to get mad because they're it's it's like well I've been doing this well it's it's not and maybe it's because there were staff changes and I mean there could be a million different reasons but the purpose behind behind it was to protect existing businesses on the island as they rebuilt what I'm afraid is going to happen is that if it continues so I spoke to a beach business person who is going to rebuild his business um spending three to four million do on his rebuild and a food business was just permitted uh adjacent to him and he said why should I spend this money on this building if I can continue to operate in a trailer and make just as much right so I think that the unanticipated consequence of not staying true to the intent of what the council provided for is it's going to stump it's going to squash Redevelopment because it's going to be a financial decision if I can make a million dollars in a truck why would I build why would I build a structure exactly um and and that really worries me so um I'm I don't know if any of you share this opinion absolutely 100% agree I uh I did uh pull down a copy of the ordinance 2305 and I don't even see how it's being applied properly there's Provisions in here that it's not allowed for short-term rental that is is supposed to be for preexisting businesses and Residences and it's supposed to be I think on that property that's right right and the applicant is supposed to have within six months of the date of the ordinance have applied for permanent structure or some sort of permanent relief which I don't that temporary business so I can speak to um the six month uh that got changed after we adopted that by the state so basically the state stepped in and extended that it still says the holder of the permit is supposed to have applied not applying it to a rental situation oh yeah no that's yeah that was not the intent of it but just the time extended I think it's three years it's three years now yeah wow that really but you know what the point behind it so I I was telling Patrick and some of these folks that were here um uh with the neighborhood group presenting for 7-Eleven were at this event that I went to um and and it was all planners and you know it was that world of development and marketing and it was so fascinating and but someone made a comment that if things didn't start to move uh if there wasn't a push to get folks to do something all hell was going to break loose was the comment that was made and I thought what a curious comment but the more I thought about it the more I've thought that it is this you know how long are you going to let this sit before you say hey uh I know you're waiting for insurance money but it's an eyesore to our community hey I know you um you've got a permit for a trailer but what's your plan so if as we encourage Redevelopment on the island I think we have to be consistent and this right now is a real is is a Sticky Wicket I think for the town and isn't it just but isn't it doesn't it boil down to code enforcement I understand they can do it for three years but I mean if code enforcement is looking at a business that was not on the island before that seems pretty cut and dried to that ordinance yeah um and and I think that they should still have their use permits required um so in that way we we should be validating ating whether they were here or not previously and there's a whole section uh on the town's website and in the town code that says how how do you operate a business on Fort Meers Beach and mobile vendors are strictly prohibited uh they're not permitted in the town they're permitted in this emergency situation like I said a very generous Spirit on behalf of the Town Council when they decided to do that but it's gotten morphed into something that I really believe is and there's a particular one that I happen to not be fond of not because I care about what they're it just it's a look that as you're talking about the Redevelopment of the beach you have to decide what you want your what you want your community to look like and um a family island or something else so okay so um if you all are in agreement I I hope uh that the council will hear that message and um maybe I'll go to the next meeting and say that well okay we'd like you're making the formal request to have either the town manager or Frankie or both attend our next meeting when's the next town council meeting Monday Monday Monday okay yeah I think um and what was my oh the other question I had I was not following the conversation at the council meeting about if the LPA votes unanimously on something and then nobody disagrees for 10 days and it that automatically becomes real and I I did not follow I think what they're trying to do is loosen up administrative variances but it sounded like they were creating something did you all listen to this Anita I I followed up with uh Jim I think what Jim my understanding is Jim was trying to U make the council meetings quicker so so and what I what I told him he was asking maybe certain ways we could do that and I gave him the CER County example which is to me the best example we could adopt this very quickly in this town so if if a petition goes before uh before the the the Planning Commission over there and and and the County Commission if they have a recommendation of approval from staff if they have no objection from the neighbors and they get a unanimous uh recommendation of approval from the Planning Commission then it can go on the summary agenda consent agenda consent agenda yeah for for the the County Commissioners but the County Commissioners if anything arises from those two hearings in between any County Commissioner can ask to pull that agenda item and have a discussion on it but if no one pulls it it's a quick approval with all the other administrative does that include everything a CPD yes wow again again it's got to be it's it's it's a pretty tough threshold because it's it's recommendation from staff no objection unanimous recommendation for approval so I I forwarded that to to Jim and I said you've got a perfect example in Coler County how they do it we could adopt something similar here and I I think it makes sense it it'll it makes the meetings quicker I understand it better now okay Sarasota County also has the same system that works fairly well but if somebody gets up at public comment and says I hate the drums then it has to continue its regular process yeah if there's been any kind of reported either at the previous hearing or someone sends in an email or a letter then that's that's an objection and they have to hold the for well that's very interesting okay thank you um those are all my items uh okay I I think everyone need uh Amy I'm sorry so we we just need you to motion and second vote that somebody's going to show up at Monday's meeting and represent the LPA with what you're going to ask I'll make a motion if you'd like um motion for uh the delegating authority to Anita on behalf of the LPA to uh go talk to council about these temporary uses and um having a a better long-term plan second it I can't see my schedule so I if I if if I cannot go is there an alternate an alternate that could uh Patrick can you go if there's an alter can't make you can't do it on how about I mean ible to make yeah I'll go I'll you can do it you can do it okay Don could do it I'll amend my motion uh Anita oron okay thank you so much uh all in favor of the motion anyone opposed okay thank you uh all right next item is uh Community Development items and reports which we get to the um Madam chair you I think you skipped the LPA attorney and I did it intentionally no well I have no items thank you Nancy thanks for thanks for keeping me on track by the way could I just bring up one other tiny issue you know the traffic study that the that the 7-Eleven did so I'm looking at it and I'm thinking I have looked at so many of those traffic studies over the years and why in the world as soon as it says constraint Road does it even matter yeah I mean it's like why do we even have it as a requirement it's costly it's time consuming it's a heck of a lot of paper and and it just gets I mean they're not even a question about it anyway okay think about that Sarah will you um next because it seems it seems just ludicrous I mean and since day one I've asked the same question constrained Road what does that mean we don't have to count it you know okay we need a constraint Road and also a roadway managed by Lee County not the town exactly so that's the other all right we don't have any control over it any okay Sarah okay since Nancy has no items I'd like to handle this more of a as a discussion than a presentation because I'm curious about your thoughts on these issues so um right now we we kind of loosely Define accessory structures and accessory structures if they're a pool with a stem wall over four feet then they're required to meet the requirements for setbacks as the primary structure but it doesn't apply to sheds or garages or any other accessory structure that might be bigger than an elevated than a pool elevated 4 feet above grade um it also doesn't really speak to whether an accessory unit is an accessory structure or if that that's considered a primary structure um so that's kind of where this this conversation this is what I'm interested in do we need to look more carefully at our accessory structure setbacks because right now you can put a a garage 5T from the property line but you couldn't put a pool that was elevated 4 and A2 ft above grade that close it would have to meet the same setbacks at the house so does this make sense and then the other thing that I'm trying to work through is if you have an accessory apartment if it's an owner occupied unit which means it has it's large enough to allow that additional no an owner occupied is uh small enough that you don't have the density to meet that then so it's a smaller lot typically where you're doing the Roundup so you can use half of the rideway or half of the canal and get to the density that you need but the lot itself doesn't contain enough space for two dwelling units so in order toate the impacts of an additional dwelling unit there the owner is required to live on site um so these owner occupied units aren't required to be attached so you could have two houses on these properties there are no requirements for how this looks we don't know we don't have the same we don't have any information about what those setbacks should be should it be the primary structure should that be an accessory structure there aren't really any requirements for that and then if it's not one requiring owner occupancy so assuming it's a larger lot that can get the density it has to look like a single family residence so why why are they treated differently um previously we've had conversations about connectivity between structures um you know there are issues with how you connect and what that looks like if it's connected it's required to meet the primary structure setback if it's disconnected is it I'm not sure staff is not clear in the past when we had a joint session my goodness three years ago four years ago a long time ago um we talked about whether the counil and the LPA at that time wanted to have um wanted to allow detached structures like if there was an accessory unit could it be detached or did it need to be attached at that time Council and LP said yeah we'd like to see them attached but nothing was put into the code it wasn't like a unanimous decision it was sort of a policy but nothing was put in the code and we're not sure if everybody still stands in the same place or if there would be any interest in changing this so it's a little bit more clear for staff because we're not sure how to require this you know if somebody want somebody has a big house and then they've always had an accessory structure and that accessory structure was way off in the the corner of the lot but are we talking a shed or we talking somebody lives in it well they're accessory sorry I'm talking about accessory units right now so an accessory unit so in this instance they're all elevated somebody's building an accessory unit that's at least two stories tall we're not talking about a little atg grade shed so yeah you know the big question is how should staff look at these are they required to meet the primary structure setbacks if they're a unit or or is that considered an accessory structure do they need to be attached or does it just need to be a unified design and how do we determine that I I I enjoyed your your little summary and and write up I think those are all valid questions uh and you know especially in light of a recent case we had with an elevated pool and there's history there and uh also you know personally I I also took an apartment that I had downstairs that was legal and created a separate garage and put the unit on top um and I chose to connect it and and one of the reasons I I could have just kept it not connected and I could have had a smaller setback to my neighbor but again recognition that it was still going to be pretty high up in the air I wanted to meet the full setback and not I wanted it was intentional to be a good neighbor uh to those folks so I think those are all valid questions and and you're you're completely right A lot of these there's a difference between a shed on the ground and uh an accessory unit that obviously if it's going to be brand new it's going to be way up in the air and uh you know there there's also a distinction to me with with these elevated pools that's a whole other issue so so I think those are all valid question I think I'm happy to talk about those and what do you think about it should it be connected uh well I I could address those starting with the the uh the pools so so the so to me the pools the the the there was it was a controversial issue uh at the town and I kind of just followed it I was in the LPA at that time so I kind of followed it through the the media and and some of the stuff but but when I look at it my understanding is you know connected not connected in the end what we said is if it's going to be an elevated pool it's got to meet the uh the primary uh home setback and I think the reason was is technically you could separated and say it's accessory and you would get closer to your neighbor or you would get closer to the Bay or the canal and and I think everybody recognized that those are pretty big imposing structures and they do they do uh affect someone's view Shed from the neighboring property so at least personally I believe that uh and never say never but uh unless there's really exceptional circumstances for us to Grant the variance uh on an elevated pool I think it should meet the primary house structure unless again exceptional circumstances because because there should always be that option of you can build it on the ground and you can be less of an imposition on your neighbor so that that's the first issue um I I think an accessory unit if it's going to be a livable unit and a again if we look at why we create setbacks and it's to address compatibility issues and um you know the any kind of activity that takes place the activity that happens in an accessory unit is the same activity that happens in a house okay if I build a shed for my tools no one's living in there there's no music there's no activity there's none of that if I've got a an in-law suite well my aunt or my grandma in my case is my aunt will be living there so there will be activity just like in the house so again I would say it it in that case it would make sense that to to retain the same setback as the house but what if you had it prior one that was separated and there is no way to connect it like your either it's non-conforming if it if it still exists or in that case yes if if there is no and that's why we have we create some flexibility of if you can't put it elsewhere and there and and for you to maintain the same square footage or the same footprint you need to have that little leeway I think that's I have another question say it is a garage and your garage is not attached to your house do you now have to build a structure from your garage to attach to your house to make it attach or is the fact that the garage goes with the house it's on the same property and it's above the garage I'm not sure so completely you have a house and a garage and the only the only reason I'm I'm I kind of got sueded is I automatically thought of the uh the other one that we've had on the stero was a lot of discussion so let me focus on your question and not think about so you have a house and a garage okay the house the garage has an accessory unit on top okay does it have to connect now to the house or or it used to have to connect well I think I think right now at least my interpretation of the code is if it meets the if it's separate and not connected it would not have to meet the primary uh structure setback it could need the accessory structure setback so that's where I was alluding to maybe maybe that doesn't make sense you know um if it's connected it it's got to meet the primary instructor as soon as it's connected I have an elevated pool question for you if it's connected you said it should meet the primary structure setbacks so what if the primary structure setbacks are from 1983 384 in other words and again that that's when I said Never Say Never there's going to be some excep exceptional circumstances and we we do so we we also provide variances for homes uh with reduced setbacks and again that's that's under exceptional circumstances so I would say in my mind at least an elevated pool you apply the same rules you you can grant the variance but it's got to be under exceptional circumstances and it's got to be again the in my mind the minimum uh feasible uh Varin to allow that use if again if we are allowing an elevated pool with a big pool deck that's going to have an outdoor kitchen on it and that outdoor outdoor kitchen could go elsewhere on the property I would say that that's a little different also so that's what you so along to your question um even if the primary structure was built in 1983 You' said um it would be whatever's new would have to meet the new setback so it's it's the same instance as as WID and Terrace like they had to ask for a variance for Vari right that's what I was asking MH other comments to Sarah on this topic I I did like um the comment that you said that you know if it's a shed in its ground level or or some kind of a you know a little pool enclosure or something that maybe that's treated differently because it's ground level and something that's elevated then maybe it becomes the primary structure set back as soon as you elevate that Sarah I know you're try you're trying to get some clarity on this but I uh I just went round round and round in my head about it so I don't even know what to tell you how I feel about it yet I'm sorry to say that but it just was I wasn't crystal clear on it but really comes down to code enforcement always right I mean if you have an accessory structure somebody's living in that really is a shed I mean it really becomes enforcement well and I don't know that we're we're as concerned erned about an instance where there's a Code Enforcement issue what we're dealing with a lot right now is people coming in with uh these accessory units and in the past house well and they have to be a whole house and in the past they didn't have you know they they treated them as accessory structures they maybe didn't meet setbacks they weren't connected to the house and what applies now they have to be above base flood right so they have to be tall they're big you know if you're blocking people exactly and so for our code to say that if if you know you have a bigger lot and you have enough space for the density that it has to look like a single family home but if you're maybe on a smaller lot and you don't have the density they you can do whatever you want that's not right it's where I think we should that's one that's to me pretty easy that they should be applied consistently and and I certainly agree there are always variances there are always things to come before us to consider but I think generally they ought to be applied consistently Big Lot little lot excess restructure why don't why don't we task Sarah to suggest clean this up and suggest the the ordinance or whatever to clean this up and then we look at it and then modify it if we need to and then present it to recommend Council adopted well the thing is she would have to come up with um things that have happened in the past or things that are going to come to us um with things that have happened because of the hurricane so like you have the two assessory units or whatever they are on like poo Street on the corner you have the golf front houses that had several guest houses that were on the property uh stero corners right you have the ground level accessory units that may have been washed out or may still be there and so I mean there's or you or you have garage well or you have a house with a garage separate that that doesn't connect now would we require them to connect well I was thinking of you know new construction going forward I guess but you're also talking about people that are Recon constructing right that's right that's I think going to be well you can't just have an accessory house in today's world Building forward if you didn't have one before right but if they had an accessory unit and they now want to do them as two separate structures they can oh then I but you know that just instantly rattles me I don't but go ahead so so I mean that's that's sort of the issue and that's what we're seeing people coming forward and saying well we want to have our house and then we want to have a separate accessory structure and then what setbacks does that meet do we require the connection does it have to look like a single unit I mean like what requirements are we really going to make them meet and what makes sense like is this something that matters very much to the town is this something that doesn't matter are the accessory structures that people are asking for or or referring to were they sheds or were these accessories structures mother-in-law Apartments they were accessory units I apologize I keep saying accessory structures but I'm I'm really referring to accessory units so they have verified units they were living people were living yes so I'm not and I'm not sure I understand this so if if someone has a legal unit are we saying they can't build it as a separate structure the way the code is written if it's a legal unit and they're below the density so if it's a non-conforming for density legal unit they can build it as a separate structure but if they're actually conforming for density they have to build it as a single cohesive looking home and and when it's a single cohesive home can they have two separate kitchens can it be two they they're allowed to have they're allowed to have the full two units but from the exterior it has to give the appearance of a single family home I I don't like that I I like the fact that if it's two units that you're allowed to have you should be able to put two structures if you want if you want to connect them fine if you want to put them all within one house fine but you should have that design flexibility do they have to have the same sort of setback as the principal structure okay that that makes it almost impossible then doesn't it it does a lot of cases it depends on the lot size yeah I'll give you an example Anita I've got I've got a lot in a half and I was able to put that at as a taking the apartment that I had downstairs I got destroyed putting it on top of a garage and we connected by deck and it's going to be a true in-law suite in that it's going to be my my wife's Aunt they moves in full-time but we there's Great Value you know we love her and and and she she's looking forward to moving here but that just having a a bit of a separation and it's going to be connected by a deck and it won't be a big separation but it gives her her independence and her if it wasn't your aunt it'd be a great rental unit yeah and I think what what my concern would be is how does this dynamically change in neighborhood but it but if but if it was legal and I it wasn't my aunt I would be allowed to to rent it either way so why not this obligation of connecting it I'm not quite sure what that does but I I don't get the connecting but I do get the setback piece and again I think it's because of the flood and because of Base flood elevation because we have a lot of canals a lot of those had little structures I mean we've heard some of them but they've had little a little house out back or maybe it was kind of a shed at some point they got added on to and somebody maybe grandma lived there mother-in-law whatever but the point is if you build that back now you got to go yep 10 15 feet in the air guess what you just blocked your neighbor's views I mean so you definitely I think got to go with the setbacks yeah kind of like was it Coral or bayew or what was that house that Bon L's house went this way and this way yeah right mhm yeah and that was garages bumped up against the property L we could all think about this some more Sarah this is a complicated you could bring back something but you got to bring back lots of scenarios is the problem but I think the consistency right I mean that question you you kind of it sounds like we hear pretty I feel I feel like I hear some some consistency here that would do we have consistency on the setbacks yeah would I think so on the setback it's a living unit I think what I'm hearing is then it could should comply with the setbacks of the primary structure but you had it prior and your house survived but your accessory did not where does the accessory go without moving your house that's a hardship it may not happen well if they can't make the set back then for Vari they would have to apply for a variant Varan right okay okay yeah or or could we make it where just like we we did with non-conforming lots where someone doesn't lose their use and as long as they rebuild it no bigger we we we could grant them administrative variances that could be a way to me that kind of makes sense is first of all you look at your lot can can you conform and meet the setbacks and still have the same square footage if the answer is yes well you move that building if the answer is no it's a hardship so and if the answer is no then you can maybe through an administrative process saying I I am not exacerbating what was there I'm just rebuilding the exact same footprint and I'm not you know there's nowhere else I can put it that that'd be a good solution so okay this opens up a whole another can of worms so if you have a duplex now you can just split the duplex and build two houses on your lot look at the top of Jefferson Street look at my street yeah yeah and that was a definite no in our comp plan previously but it is everywhere now yeah I mean I mean it's the code allows it it doesn't or somebody took it out or somebody misplaced it but it used to be if they comingled you could not separate yeah and that's no longer in the code it's it's and people are re-splitting lots and resitting lots yes and our our code doesn't currently prevent that we had on that that had abely we only allowed the people that had plans already designed y to split the lots and do it that way y so you're talking about the the old provision that used to say that if you built a property that crossed two like a property line property line and it was either you built a single unit or single house or you built a duplex then you you could not go back and say two separate Lots two separate homes that's right yeah okay yeah I remember that too and I just don't know how I do not recall how that got taken out I don't I don't I don't you know it's contrary to uh the comp plan's desire to uh limit density because you're increasing density every time you split the Lots yep so maybe we need to revisit that yeah would sp250 allow us to um it's more restrictive or burdensome I mean you have that um issue that you do have to address I mean you might be able to just talk about it but you really would not be able to propose it or this is always how don't how's it burden so if you had a duplex you have two units you have two separate units you have two separate units but I don't see as burden from to say if you have a duplex you have to keep it a do well but it's the the key thing is is what you can do with that now with two separate two separate Lots buildings on two separate Lots you can resell them but if you're trying to split them now that's a differentation I don't see that so what what we're looking at what we're talking about um I I think what we're talking about is when we have these uh pretty small prior platted Lots like like in the older subdivisions and in some of those instances people combined them and put a single dwelling unit on those you know just had a bigger lot and they stuck one home on it they didn't consolidate the lotp it's unclear no it's it's it's unclear it's unclear there's there's no no history regarding whether those were purposefully combined or tax tax appraiser combined I mean sometime in some communities the tax appraiser combines them automatically um in some communities it has to be sort of requested to combine them or they stay as separate Lots um as far as I can tell every instance where somebody owns two lots next to each other and they have a single unit across them they appear to be combined I don't see any instances where those are separate um however when people have like demo that structure that single unit and re subdivide into two separate units they get more units yep so they go from one unit back to two units um right I mean they they are required to demo the building before they're granted anything they're not granted the subdivision of the property until the building is demoed but at this time that's the way the code's written but not with standing that issue of of going from one to two I if at least for me if someone's got the the proper size on their property that they can meet setback and they've got two legal units or if it's a bigger lot and they've got three legal units I don't have a problem if they meet setbacks that have separate structures I don't I don't understand why we would prefer non separate structures so I think in this instance where well at least my concern is the instance where it's it's a single unit with the combined lots and then they're demoing the building or the building was destroyed and then they're replatting that lot line and they have now non-conforming Lots but they were previously platted they were in a subdivision so they're getting more density was was when we were talking about Lonnie's Lon exactly Lon skin and and yeah and I I said my pce at that time but I think we yeah yeah I mean so that that is an issue that's coming up pretty regularly um where they are you know a house has been demoed and now they're going back to the two lots this was really a hot issue and if Dan Hughes were still living he would give you every detail of it because he was uh he was a real Advocate on this one and um I I I I think that if the Lots would become non-conforming they should not be able to be split that they can have what they had on the the two lots together but not be able to separate them to make resellable non-conforming lots yeah I would agree with Jane if uh if I'm imagining that say somebody had two small Lots non-conforming lots and they essentially replatted them into one larger lot so they could build a bigger home that doesn't automatically give them the right to replat again to non-conforming Lots no but I think what saying that there are two nonconforming lots that the house that was there was destroyed now they say that they have two lots they want to buy two two separate structures but they're non conforming Lots but they were approv subdivisions okay so they're ploted for their subdivisions they already platted and they're non-conforming so the worse they would if there a lotum they would just come for a variance that that's a another I have to add to the conversation when you guys start talking about platting and subdivision there's a whole set of rules as far as where the lines go um but con what adds to the confusion is there's quote lots of record and when you use that terminology the lot of record is really what determines the density and the assigned units um so we really need to look and I'm happy to work with Sarah on it as far as what your code currently requires but you don't just go and start moving lines around I mean there's there's a huge process that has to go into place but it's perfectly legal to have a house on that crosses a property line um and then the the setback issues because again it goes to a lot of record the lot of record is a um specific definition in each codes and I have not researched your code on that issue but we started off with accessory uses and then we kind of went to subdividing and then we went to I guess non-conformity so I I think Sarah needs some direction on on what policy issue you would like us to bring back well Sarah Sarah raised three questions at the end and we just went from question one to question two because one is accessory structures but um two has to deal with primary structure I would I would and three deals with unit y I would just say that if a property is split that they then cannot come out ask for a variance on setbacks to fit their home they buy the lot to to build on and they need to know what they can fit on it before they subdivide them because a line even though we've appr we have I know I know self but do we do we feel that not withstanding that issue because that's a complex issue of yeah you know was it fully conforming lot minimum termination all that stuff but just to give guidance to Sarah I think on some basic issues we can give guidance right now maybe leave that one up to everybody think about it maybe come back with with some more structured way of addressing the other issue but but at least um there seems to be this and you guys tell me if there is consensus or not but um if it's a accessory dwelling unit where people will be living in that unit U maybe it makes sense to have consistent U setbacks with the primary struct yes yes I think we're in agreement on that that gives you guidance right there accessory units must meet the setback the other issue is treating the older subdivisions and those rules consistent with some of the the the other zoning districts having that consistency I think there's consensus there um what else were you asking us was trying to get you where where you've got consensus here and at least get some of these things I think on the third item I think we heard that the accessory units would not be required to be attached to the primary unit but they would be required to meet the setback yeah if they if they met setbacks I my my opinion is they shouldn't have to be connected or within one unit do we all agree on that yes yeah there you go that was does that cover thank you Patrick that was easier so you can it yeah um all right anything else from anyone items for next uh agenda Sarah any idea do we the next meeting is regular and at the next meeting do we have Meers side yes okay anybody else yes is it a surprise yes yes is it another big case possibly oh Lord so so we as of yesterday we had a meeting to go over the schedule for agenda items we had six cases that can go on the next agenda today we got rude shrimp so I need to look at that figure out if it can go on it we may have seven items on the agenda we may have six items on the agenda I'm not sure so with all due respect and you know that that's true I'm not it's not like all due respect that whatever we've got to get the packet with with more than more time for especially as these large scale projects come forward that have variances and deviations and every other Tom Dick and Harry element that we've got to review it it can't just be that we have a weekend to look at it true I mean so so if it means delaying the meeting or whatever it means wait that's an option yeah we we have to we have to have uh ample time I mean does anybody feel like they have would have ample time three days for Meers side for example you may because you'll know about it but and and I think one of the things that we can make is make a recommendation to the applicants of these cases that if you do have time to meet with maybe some of the individual LPA members and walk them through your request I think that always helps because it's it's one thing to read it and someone to sit down with you and explain it and you can ask questions it it it kind of helps that preparation sometimes so I I I know for me if someone wants to talk to me as an applicant I'm always happy to have that discussion with them not everybody feels the same way but that that could possibly be a a way to to get up with all due respect to Patrick that does not diminish my requests for more time on these large scale projects when they come forward we I mean we need we need more time for the packet okay I mean I love reading 350 P all right anything from anybody else okay uh one more issue I should have brought it um earlier up um up earlier but uh at at a council meeting there's been discussion about um the town having a strategic plan or recovery plan or whatever you call it and that's separate from LDC issues and comp plan issues it can it can include some of that stuff but um I am a big proponer of having a plan uh companies have plans military have plans municipalities have so I I I fully understand that we we took a beating we're getting back on our feet but I think we should all urge uh our Council that we need a strategic plan to identify the priorities of this town to identify where the efforts are going to go from staff to identify where the funds are going to go and I would even encourage them to have a dashboard board on the website clearly identifying what those priorities are and having a timeline you know year uh looking at one year looking at five years and and obviously within the fiveyear period things change it's re-evaluated and you can modify it as you go along but you know just just like any business we we need a strategic plan moving forward I couldn't agree with you more Patrick I I'd also like to state that I think we've been given a long enough time that we need to have our yard cleaned up so that we can reduce the Critter um element that is coming to the island and I just think it's whether you can live in your house or not live in your house you at least need to mow your yard and get the debris out of it so that the neighbors can enjoy their lives because it is I mean I've noticed more rat traps on this island in the last week than I have ever it's amazing in front of businesses in front of it's just disgusting anything else boy I hate to leave this on that note okay let's say something positive uh anybody else have anything all right may I have a motion to adjourn please it is 2:23 and uh we stand adjourned thank you all thanks so I got this from the mayor