e e e e e e e everyone good morning everyone this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency it is Thursday March 14th it's 11:30 a.m. right now we are missing Patrick vaness um I feel pretty certain he'll appear but um so far he is not here uh just for the LPA to know uh don is going to need to step out at some point in time for um um he's just going to need to step out and uh if you would please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and the invocation Al the unedit States of America repic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty all as we contemplate the most important document of our community uh give us wisdom to make the best decisions possible for the future of our town amen amen amen okay we'll start our our uh meeting off with public comment so Jim and Steve are you both here to make comment Steve come on up nice to see you yes get your friendly timer Amy okay yeah I I I don't think I'll stretch um I'm here as a representing the the Marine environmental resource task force Advisory Board uh just uh to extent to the local planning agency an invitation to the resilience Forum that we'll be hosting March 21st Thursday from 9:00 to 11 in these very Chambers uh we'll be hosting four uh uh academics with practical experience working here on Fort Meers Beach actually with local data lar data uh veget of data things like that about uh and and the subject is resilience so with all these s projects we have going on is there actually an element of resilience that's being implemented we're not sure but the Forum is going to be a panel forum and it's all questions and answers so the advantage to that of course is that if you did come you can specifically have your questions addressed um so I think that format's going to um really help uh local land owners Municipal leaders in um in in the concepts of resilience or like I like to say is damage control for any future storms so uh again just an open invitation and we hope to see some of you there thank you very much Steve appreciate the invite Mr Inc good morning for the record James ink and engineering and first question is is this my one shot today or is there comment afterwards um there is not comment afterwards um but if you have something that you just can't bear not saying and you're the only one here perhaps we'll entertain another moment for you but this is public comment okay because what I'm concerned with is I may raise something that the board is going to address and take care of and it's not really an issue or not let us know in advance okay but I'm here to speak on behalf of my client Moss Marina and other clients on the island um I also looked at this as a uh longtime decade being on the plan board and going through what you're going through right now and looked at it from an islandwide kind of concept so it's not just specific projects it's it's the entire islandwide and I noticed that we have changed pedestrian commercial proposed to mixed use with a significant rewrite which concerns me with some of the comments that were made of were not changing the comp plan I understand being the professional that you have to go through a comp plan you have to make edits due to statutes due to language due to are other things that happen so the fact that we're here doing this is perfectly normal but we are making some changes and it seems that some of the areas are enlarging in the mixed proposed mixed use area that are other things boulevards and and and even and some other mixed use mixed residential areas it looks like are being proposed to change to that so my specific question that I'd like to look at is the marina part of it is you have three marinas on the island you have fishtail which is the largest by far bigger than both snook bite and Moss Marina fishtail is going to be it's in pedestrian commercial going to be a mixed use and the other two stay in Marina with some proposed additions which are interesting and and potentially good and and the question to the board is do we really need that future land use because do we need Marina as a future land use Marina as a future land use it's it's designed to protect Marina uses and that's more traditionally if you go into the county at San Carlos Island that's more a working Waterfront uh recreational Marina is kind of a hybrid it's not industrial and it's not commercial it's kind of both at the same time so the question is do those two need to be in pedestrian commercial also which will be the proposed mixed use um the marina concept the the comments that are made with the the F Parts like I said we'll leave that for further down the road I do like the fact that we got rid of the motel Matrix and proposing to go to a f inside the building whatever works works based on on zoning and the other parts um the statement love the statement on Commercial intensity that it's controlled by height and F you still have the language of some types of uh allowances for things over three stories but it's a pretty high bar you have to meet which is good uh with that was my three minutes up mhm uh the only other thing one last thing policy 7 G1 is staying in which says the bridge or the bridge is coming out the bridge adequacy and 7gi but you left a statement in that says we discourage two lanes coming onto the bridge which is in definite conflict with fdot's plan they're about to start construction the others I'll see you at the next one thank you very much Jim appreciate your comments okay um Sarah Eddie the show's all yours so um LPA members what I had planned to do and Eddie so because I didn't tell you I told Sarah last night but what my idea was is for us to go Section by section uh Eddie you could point out uh changes or highlight issues that you may want still clarification from us on if the LPA has any questions we'll ask if we have no questions we'll consider that section good and we'll move on okay sounds good um oh it did on it is all right cool um but first I also want to introduce Mario Don he actually been working on this for a very long time behind the scenes along with me I just been doing a bit of presenting but Mario been been been on that uh the project with me for a while now and he's uh uh uh as you know I had a conflict in the later afternoon uh um so uh Mario is more than capable of uh taking over where I leave off uh we had a so we flew him down for this wonderful um welcome Mario I think um in speaking with Sarah uh before we the element might be good to kind of recap some of how we got to where we are right now with uh because if you if you all recall um the Virgin the comp that you see now has been very heavily modified from the prior I guess I think this is probably version um uh at this point when we first started a project uh a couple of years ago um I know it has been a while uh we're given the directive by uh uh the commission Council to um to really try to push the envelope uh deal with certain issues um one of which was to see how we can deal with the traffic uh uh uh through the island second is um kind of look at where our growth patterns are and uh how you know we can create a better balance particularly with the uh all the airbnbs uh that was on the island and kind of really try to see how we can better preserve that uh old florid our quality of life uh uh um on the island that makes um for Myers be this place that the folks who live here really with Drew them here in the first through you all here in the first place um as we progressed through uh uh the process we had uh we were told that well there are certain places where we would uh that we were asked to say take a look at densifying so that we could um really Force the density in those areas and that way keep it away from the other area the single families in order to preserve our neighborhood which was the original intent uh we were also asked to deal with the fact that we had such a restrictive code that uh you know early on you were like you couldn't even get a there was a bank who was interested in bringing a branch in and you had to go through like a whole series of poop to even move that process along so that's why we uh looked at um what was more of a very expanded Ed node approach uh particularly to uh spread the um spread the daily uses along the island instead of where we saw with north and south and people were actually driving from one end of the island to the other just to do uh daily Necessities uh um which contributes to the amount of traffic over time um the other thing that we were asked to looked at was uh that that we had provided initial recommendations was to think about how we can really try to concentrate parking or or and capture the tourist uh population and very specific of the island so that they didn't incude in the neighborhood further we came back with a map that was much more expanded um it didn't have Marina on it actually because what what we were trying to do was also compressed the amount of uh land use designation you'll see also that it says Wetlands right now which is really unconventional compared to all your neighbors of and most of the state because in most parts of the state that's called conservation um we got a lot of push back on that so we've reverted back at your request back to Wetlands um which uh isn't the way that we would normally recommend it and may still get pushed back from the state when it go through review but we're okay with just posing the question and letting them comment uh for you um you'll see also that the uh you know based on the discussion that um over time the much higher density you saw was scale back to what we have now uh that 1.4 that's been discussed uh which actually isn't any original Cod but it's a small enough number that like kind of preserves what you have um we scale back some of the most of the district in terms of uh the side with some request from the uh uh uh LP UHA to expand one or two of them uh uh um just a little bit more to may make sense and um and and and uh you know the the biggest changes then is uh really also back to the transportation element um originally we came back like well let's look at pedestrian Bridges let's look at Transportation master plan let's put look at centralized parking in the uh on the island through all the discussions we were we asked to scale it so far back that uh you'll see that there are some changes but it's really more toward pointing parking off the island in a deck uh or finding way that we can do that so we really come full circle and then maybe two or three circles uh on some of these to where we are right now on the plan um I'm trying to uh provide a did that a brief overview of how we got to where we are right now uh um and certainly uh very happy that we are ready to move forward uh just because I think that with all the potential investment for rebuilding that that's pending out there having a good set of rules or having a specifically a clear set of rules allows the community to move forward a lot more easily uh moving forward uh with that you know C recapturing that investment and and directing it properly um on the map that you see here I do want to make a uh a correction in a note uh where St says uh mreenal uh I apologize it's just say median residential that the scrier error we also took your question from last time uh about whether or not there um you know it impacts uh existing commercial proper that commercial though Mario actually end up doing a secondary analysis though we found uh not that many properties but some properties are affected by this and here's our recommendation there's one property in the cell and adjacent to I believe Mar antini Village the the node we would just say uh our recommendation is change the map just include that as part of the node since it's already uh commercial uh uh used anyway it fit in the node and then in the north if I could point you to right here that's where the other uh by the by the the park at the very Northern tip of the island it's just right there that's where they uh all concentrated the pink shell right exactly so our recommendation there is you could either leave it um and kind of let that fade out over time and something that grandfathered in because it's very very deep in the neighborhood or you can choose to make it um the uh the boulevard type and treat it at the transition from the public area back into the neighborhood either way it's okay but I have a question too on this if you look at the North End of the Island mananas Court is the only yellow from the bridge down why is that um so restricted um no that's that's a matter of previous policy it doesn't have to be that restrictive but it was uh with fall history there we have such commercial commercial intrusion into that that it seems very restrictive to have that be the only area on the North End of the island that is a 30-day rental and I that's um I think that considered and that's part of the history of what we had considered because we actually had pushed a little further uh up there and then then we were asked to scale it back to where it was now but it had the question had been considered before there's no I mean I I believe in day it is a policy decision uh uh uh um but have you talked to the people who live on that street how they feel wait hold hold on one second you guys I thought we were mixed up but we're okay now yeah okay go ahead sorry I want everybody to be on the same page it's no worries um I had not heard from them or had a chance to talk to them individually um this is the way it's always been right you know you've brought this up a couple of times about Matan Court I don't remember what it was about matan's court there's there's duplexes in there there's in In-laws in there and they back right up to the marina and they back up to um that's a beautiful neighborhood are you saying a mixed residential then is is um the weekly is that how it ties you're saying a low density is a 30-day rental is that okay so everything that's yellow on this map is 30-day rentals is that what you're saying right really I didn't realize that go ahead there might not be a perfect one to one um the 30-day rental is related to the zoning district and there are some instances where the zoning District does not match up with the with the uh future land use District but mostly that is correct and some are governed by HOAs too right I mean like fair viiew and I I do believe so we we don't Implement those but that would be yeah right um part of um now that we're talking about rentals I do want to add back to the history as well part of what we were trying to look at was we had a pattern that we showed early early on where it said hey your population might slightly decrease and at in ejected but the number of housing units increased and if we compare that to Airbnb data we were like oh that's why and so why did that happened that happened because your hotels and motels were restricted in how much they could expand and so there was uh artificial caps resulting from your land your cot that created a uh lower Supply uh versus demand on uh the amount of vacation unit while you all were still a very heavily desired Destin for a lot of folks and when that happens you have lower demand I mean you have higher demand lower Supply what happen you can make more money off of the same remaining product Supply so it makes sense that when platforms like Airbnb came about people could charge more it's just a matter of Economics 101 Eddie don't you agree that it's also a different vacationer it is but it is it at the same time uh but if you already have a high premium for your Health base you can Char and you have a different person who is uh you know even a different vacationer you can charge an even higher premium and on top of that and if that higher premium means that you can make that mortgage on that second uh piece of property that's more expensive then that then that business model works for you now if the premium wasn't as high to rent a space then correspondingly the Airbnb may not uh may not have uh driven uh at high in which Casey you can't if you can't earn enough income on that rental property to pay the mortgage on that property that business model doesn't work doesn't become an Airbnb so there there is a um you know an Economic and Business correlation there where by artificially inducing something to have a lower Supply through regulation and driving up that price you have a corresponding Market increase and another uh uh subset of that market and that's what what I believe kind of happened uh uh uh um you know as a professional that's what I believe happened um and so part of the regulations you see is okay how do we rebalance that we rebalance it by looking at how we could think about how when these hotels and motels are rebuilt how they can be done a little bit differently loosening it up though it doesn't uh but you know they have a more fighting chance but not so far that they get out of control because we still want this to be you know a place where you live right so creating that balance and trying to create that balance that's the key imperative objective here and how uh we would recommend you can uh you know move forward with your policies yeah and with that that's one background I think it may be time to uh uh um and of course oh I I forgot to follow up on it uh I mentioned before that we had taken out marinas um you'll see that they are back on the map that the that's the result of uh the many round of discussion that was had but it was uh we're happy to go either way we just need a conclusion um on that and uh with that um the fish tail is still not a marina right I mean it's not showing Marina on the map it uh showing mixed use mixed use mixed use yeah it there should be a marina there I um that that was part of Santini um so okay yeah so we really aren't it isn't being designated a marina then I mean it's it is what it was uh so we aren't changing that and and we did have a conversation uh I believe at Council I don't know if it was a joint session or not but it was about the marina question because we had originally looked at designating the marinas as part of other districts and they were very much in favor of keeping the marinas so that's why we went back to Mar important exactly very specific like which way do you want me to go on the map yeah they're identical snook bite and yeah moss and fishale are all identical so will you will you review that on mananas though because that doesn't make sense to me which one on mananas why we have that as low let's see what what Sarah has to say so so those are larger Lots um within that Community um they did have larger setbacks required in that Community um and I think that it's important to know that it is sort of an enclave it's it's off on its own and it is a neighborhood and and when you change these things to be low uh short-term rental you do lose a neighborhood component um so you need to you know like he said it's about the balance um but there were six people here yesterday several of them from mananas saying they were being intruded on by the the uh but were they ask were they asking to not be intruded on or are they asking to be changed I mean I I think there's a you know if they were felt like they were being intruded on wait till their short-term rentals they going to feel intruded on yeah if I if I live there I would definitely feel it's a completely different lifestyle I would not be in favor of changing this that is that is one of the unique neighborhoods on the island I think it should stay like it is yeah that's actually kind of what we were thinking very early on as well there's some neighborhood that the stylistic aspect of it the cohesiveness of the neighborhood which where we thought that you wouldn't really want to change that uh because we want to preserve what we can we want to direct that growth to other places so that it gives you a better Fighting Chance of that now how the market pans out that's how the market pans out but you know when you know you you can't overly change the market market is what it is but you could constrict you put theis restriction to channel how that market might react a certain way to to your policies and that's where we're trying to attempt to do here um maybe it's a good good uh time to kind of go back to what we were where we left off uh the prior week and go through the elements one by one yes please yes if I could ask a question first I believe it was Patrick at one of our last meetings he asked if we could have a a document that would show the overlay showing what is the existing comp plan and what the changes are I think we all got an email yesterday uh someone down at the Marina District I mean at the Theater District said that it has been expanded and she took uh offense to that so do we have anything that can show the difference between this document and the existing document Mar yeah I I think maybe Mario can uh try to uh try to use your GIS right now to uh to demonstrate it I can tell you though that none of the marinas that you see on here were expanded no it wasn't the marina Theater District theater district oh no that was not it doesn't look like it was no it was not at all that the one we were very careful about to just preserve that the existing uses Boulevard oh she was talking uh where is her email yeah did you make a copy of that no I didn't make cop yeah no I it was a very good email yeah what Amy said I mean the um would you like yes please I mean there no um there's no differences in the use of what area allowed there like uh the it's uh maintain the same density at the transition uh we didn't want to go to High because it it's right next to the low density area we were like well it's currently uh either this mixed or Boulevard and you have uh you know I know we called it earlier on the project I called it the the kind of pink like theer that now act the same shade at the uh the building's now the same shade as what you see shaded on the map right there now so I I know the area pretty well we were just trying to be uh on that one we had kind of restricted so that it would uh it would be Mak use but you're looking at maybe like a first floor Cafe that you can walk to from your house type of deal uh maybe it's just that and maybe a little Art Gallery next to the theater uh um certainly nothing that you would consider similar to what you have in Time Square or Civic Center or even a public in the center of the island uh well you know Eddie let's go back let's let's start let's start section by section and um when the questions arise we perfect we'll take them sounds good all right I think uh we had left off last time oh y okay cool right art and theater it's identical M yeah which is M sorry yeah cuz all we did was just reshade it yeah yeah down a little bit to EET online shows IUS doesn't it that's what she was saying one two three four the one two toward EG the base of is the theater besides dolphins on the other side I mean Charlie's house so we had to band it from where you had bouar to include the theater only no it's actually got one lot in from the theater as well okay which is right now a raised lot it's an empty lot it was a residential one in from the theater on Egret yep belongs to the theater no no it's a separate lot that's for sale right now okay and it was a house that's gone so that's probably yeah that's an but it looks like that's now part of yeah I see that shouldn't it shouldn't be no it's a residential lot it's a residential lot well wait a minute is that the lot that was going to be rebuilt with a Taco Bell and a Taco Bell way back when oh Lord Jane I don't remember anything about a Taco Bell welcome Patrick welcome and they changed it to a commercial was commercial and then they changed it a Taco Bell on Egret I can't no on the end of the street at the corner no that's that's the beach theater at the end of egret and Estero is the beach the two facing Estero are Beach theater on one side on the North side and the dolphin on the South Side those both that's right on each side of e so that should cover that whole block right but now there's it's showing one lot in which is a residential house that has been ra that was Carrie Carrie and Brad and she said her lot was commercial and she wants to keep it commercial now I remember that was commercial I remember this and because she backed up to what was then we can we can alter that before the uh first reading yeah we can alter that before the mix use I'll tell was commcial before the mixed use designation continues one block further than on the original plan y the bevard you Bard you me here the original plan ends at Kuru now it's continued it's gone to eager 100 something so we've expanded it yeah we've expanded what I think her complaint is oh do do we not want to include a theater in that I think we want to include the theater my concern is the property behind it oh but we did mention that that was just a item that we could correct before the uh commercial and she fought to keep it I'm looking at up I remember the woman who lived there her name was Carrie Hill okay do do we do do we need direction then before we move it to Don's looking it up on Lea right now to see what uh what it is hey Jacob I know we're getting a little uh a little squirly here talking but uh let us know if it's not picking up okay cuz I want to make sure everybody hears what we're say thank I don't know if it' be 121 don't art it don't art at right now um we could definitely leave it out or keep it in we just need direction from yall well let's leave it let's leave it open for conversation is is 121 eget 121 ER is a past owner of car Hill uh no k John Cav before that it might not go back that far why isn't okay um Eddie go ahead we'll we'll we'll we'll deal with this as it comes back up down good um we're going either way um so um we would suggest you keep the theer but not necessarily one I don't think there's any objection to keeping the theater the question is do include that one lot behind it which looks as if you have included it right but we can take that out RS yeah Z RS right now we can take it out out our intent would just to go to the theater okay so what's the consent here that we just go to the theater correct okay perect house there perfect we'll take that out thank you very much thank you all right okay you showed us that Happ I did years ago yeah I think you've seen almost all of them okay between you and me we probably have believe me that was 2012 when I old think we were thr a future land use last time we're trying to recall where we left off future land use it was future land use you had to go we were exhausted and we decided to have just one day for just this right yes what page are we going we we're on the very beginning oh okay town of FMB future land use element right so we have question of the medium residential which uh performance of been ask got here I I I I commented on our research and review um so for for his benefit if it's all right uh uh uh uh um I'll just repeat what I mentioned sure sure um so we did do a review we found that with one property itself that had commercial use but it's next to the Santini Village note anyway so our recommendation then is just to include out as part of thei node instead of leaving it uh a medium and then on the very uh the other other area where we found it was on a very very Northern tip right before the uh the the park um so where we needed direction from the uh from from the LPA was to either keep out this a lot of grandfather and amorti out over time or to change that perhaps to a Boulevard and use that at the transition area CU it's next to a park or you got Park maybe you have a you know small ice queen shop and then you transition back into a residential area uh um either way it's perfectly okay uh but we just need direction great thank you um Madam chair I apologize for my tardiness who working through a little work emergency um not expecting a a recap but were you guys talking about the uh the various Activity Center nodes we were just talking about uh the uh Theater District okay are we are we addressing all the activity center nodes now or at a later date we're going we're going to start we're going to start with the future land use map section and we're just going to go Section through Section thank you yep just to keep it on track and you have some crackers there by the way appreciate appreciate cuz I haven't had breakfast mhm all right so where we at right now with the medium residential uh you know uh start off again with the notion that hey uh it's removing uh the commercial aspect part of that uh intent was to try to prevent further neighborhood intrusion uh with uh by really trying to concentrate those commercial uses what page what page are you are you there I apologize I'm uh who had the mou page five oh you do okay yeah page five okay go ahead thank you that helped I'll give a second for everyone to catch up to that okay go ahead all right uh to try to prevent that intrusion um at the lp uh brought up and we just went through um you know there are some properties so my my recommendation was to keep the mixed residential as is to remove the commercial and then for those properties where this is relevant that you want to keep those mixed commercial aspect to redesignate them as Boulevard or as part of the uh the mix noes uh um that would be our recommendation uh after discussion with death Eddie can you can you touch upon the the boulevard future land use category and if we were to do how do we address the boulevard category comprehensively it's a it's been an ongoing issue on this beach for a long time because again anything new in Boulevard you pretty much have to do plan development I think at least from my perspective those have been well established commercial zones for a long time I think people know what to expect I think from a compatibility standpoint the the years of existence have kind of addressed those issues right so this idea of being able to change the uses we've got to find a way to make that happen to facilitate that it has been a problem yeah yeah well you know we go back to the very you know original where we tried to eliminate Boulevard completely and then that didn't uh that didn't happen we we were asked to bring it back um I think the concern from there the boulevard ROM future land use uh and we probably could throw down ah great right there um there are some aspects where it you know we we looked at removing the um that the plate overlay and just making that part of the the density um and just really taking a look at how you're going to you know potentially remove the uh non-residential use restrictions there what that does is it opens it back up that you can address this more toward your Land Development regulations uh the way we were trying to look at it uh and that way it kind of gives you a bit more nimon and just using the ldr to up or lower the amount of restriction that you want uh on there uh obviously um you know uh you can still you can still delete further the the um the line after dwelling unit if that is that remains a concern but as it is right now it provide for that sensitivity but it doesn't go too far as the fed by removing that last sentence in the uh in the uh comprehensive plan and by doing so it allows you to actually then Define what it means to be sensitive or in other in other cities uh similar to what you do conditional use or special use per uh permissions uh yeah in the code yeah so I think that it's really important here to point out that um we left the you know that there's the option for the commercial plan development but the details of this is really are really going to be worked out in the comprehensive or not the in the Land Development code because right now it's the Land Development code that has all the limitations that are a problem that you can't change it to anything other than what was there before so I I think that yes but if we look at the language right here and I I'm trying to get online and I can't get online so unfortunately have so look here um it says for any new expanded use is it does say you have to go through a plan of resoning here so that's got to come out of the comp the last before so right oh yeah so it does connect those two and I was reading it as they need to be sensitive to it and then as a separate thing some things are going to require a comp so I think that we can make that amend yeah I think if if the uh if the recognition LPA will uh will uh put a strike through on that on that sentence and then uh would recommend that you address the rest in the uh Land Development code updates yeah so so so at least my my comment on that's my my opinion and is that we need to change that to for Boulevard properties that they don't require a plan development I think what's appropriate is that we update our our land use table we go to a much more robust and detailed land use table and we increase we we we increase the number of uses we put those uses that we want to see in that area so they could be addressed there but but we get a we have to get that impediment out and then the other the other issue with that code that policy right there is we we did have the opportunity for people to ask for 10 units per acre where I see it's been brought back at the bottom but as far as I can tell it's just through the provision of of affordable housing and to me that's more restrictive than it was previous yeah mhm um actually the the way that platted development the platted overlay District was uh applied and if you did further reading into it um the platted overlay was only for existing density so you couldn't get new density at that rate that was the existing density and it made the so if you were at 10 dwelling units per acre that's considered conforming in the platted overlay rather than nonon forming so the benefit there is that so for instance uh you have two dwelling units and you meet the 10 dwelling units per acre and you're in the platted overlay you can rebuild and those those two units in the house without having to do the post- disaster re uh Redevelopment so you don't you aren't Limited in your square footage that's considered a conforming density whereas if you only had one unit if you were meeting the six dwelling units per acre but you wanted to go up to 10 but you didn't have that before you you couldn't ask for that that's not like that would not be considered uh going up in density would not be considered conforming only the existing density was considered conforming does that make sense I understood um but the situation is if someone has 10 units per acre or more than 10 units per acre they're vested they have those units they want to redevelop they're they want to redevelop and they can ask for 10 whereas now they want to redevelop at least the way by Crossing that out what we're saying is you get six and you ask for four more and those have to be affordable housing so I think again I think we there was there was a reason it was there it was for protecting people that had density greater than six so I think we need to recognize that and there are so few units that actually are conforming so that so there are there are small Lots so the indiv ual lots are allowed to have a single unit most of those are far above the 10 dwelling units per acre um what the the advantage of having the non-conforming to rebuild uh through the platted overlay is limited to like a dozen Lots on the island because most of them are so small that even at 10 dwelling units per acre they're not conforming so they're still having to rebuild through the post disaster rebuild but but in my mind if we affect one lot it's one one too many I I just don't see the harm in keeping that the way we had it so would it be possible to make it more clear how it's supposed to be applied because there's a lot of confusion about how it works and people think that they can just get 10 dwelling units per acre and that's the problem and that's why we were trying to get rid of it is because there's so much nobody seems to understand how it works and you have to go through the process of no actually this is what it is and if it's existing then this so if how would you feel about us leaving the platted overlay but making it more clear what it's for and it's only for existing density and you know how it works that I don't know that we can go through and figure out which is because it's basically when people come to us and then we start doing the calculation and we're like oh you're actually conforming density and you can rebuild and you aren't capped at your square footage can we put in a superseding Clause that already had it a separate policy that is possible so yeah so I love the idea of a superseding claws well it sounds good it does sound delicious doesn't it but but we'll look at it care I can't connect we put I'm I'm trying with my Hotpot somehow Amy can you get Patrick the Wi-Fi hold on uh I believe we put in there like we we had your existing comp plan had a policy in there already about if it's kind of preexisting and uh when we looked at it it was the minor tweak that would you know actually cover Mr Van's question actually impeding on on on on on on this because it would be a separate question from a policy standpoint so let's uh let's actually I'm ask Mario to try to find it and then see if that worked and if we need to tweak that or go back to tweak this that might you know more clarity on that one we we'll allow to uh go back to this question and the the two concerns folks so so everybody understands why I'm concerned with this is a I don't want to diminish anybody's existing property rights that's the obvious one but the other thing is if someone's got existing older buildings and they had by right 10 units per acre they want to redevelop and somehow now the only thing they have by right is six MH do you guys think they're going to redevelop no they so we're we're disincentivizing invest reinvestment and Redevelopment by by making it more difficult so we honor their rights if they do want to redevelop they maintain those rights and they will reinvest but if we we make it hard why would you tear down buildings not be able to build them back and I think you made the point that the additional four would have to be affordable housing or Workforce housing and we all know this is a difficult Endeavor absolutely on Fort Myers Beach an impossible Endeavor yeah I didn't want to say impossible but improbable let's say improbable improbable okay well because we've already passed it I want to just go back to uh page 10 of our package not 10 of the numbers uh to 4 A4 because it states that we will not vacate um public use um to water bodies and we have a case coming up to do that to move and to possible vacate so for clarification that uh application has been amended it will be coming forward to you differently than it was proposed we are not don't we need to move it out from underneath their building anyway one way or another but that would not be the same thing as getting rid of access okay but J I think you're bringing up a good point because I've I've seen cases I don't know of any specific case on the beach here that but I've seen it elsewhere where it made complete sense to vacate a given rideway somewhere right where it wasn't used it was just a partial uh rideway it didn't connect to anything there there were reasons where it made sense and I think that could be dealt with in the Land Development code to at least you you you establish criteria is to you know preferences to maintain any public RightWay I get it certainly but but just to put it in the as a policy in the comp plan prohibit it then we take away all that that flexibility and we handcuff ourselves so um you know Margaritaville would have been a good example of this because they did vacate that's right uh of course the vacation for Diamond Head was part of the incorporation the and that was uh for My Street it was through through Diamond Head y so but but I I tend to agree with things changing Eddie do you know what where we are policy page 10 of the packet and it's policy 4 A4 of the future land use map a 1 A4 you've you've added you have added um the town shall not it's all about vacation yeah and we're saying maybe that shouldn't be there because there may be uh there may may be a uh a proposal that comes forward that says you know you vacate this and here on the other side you're gaining uh three times as much I I don't know but it wasn't there before and what I'm wondering is why would we put it here now Sarah to protect to to clarify um so the concept is we don't want to get rid of a number of easements so so we wouldn't want to vacate and not replace so we don't have a problem moving as long as it's beneficial but we don't want to allow people to just get rid of right and that I thought was the direction we wanted to go well agreed agree but it doesn't really say that yeah this says we can't vacate or diminish or otherwise you know impair but the point is unless it is replaced okay it be two words to that without replacement yeah without replac yeah I mean it's because the intent is that we just don't want to get rid of number like we don't want to go from 5 to three we we want to keep the same number they can shift around as long as it's more beneficial to the town right I think it's fine without that's easy fix to to add a word without without replacement and it does it just apply to beach access or it applies to parking areas docks are you still not online well we you want to try mine we didn't originally have parking in there that added at request Jacob could you come help Patrick get online please I'm not saying that to embarrass him I just want him to be on the same page we I I'll get there I'm just uh I'm sure you will you've had a rough day already still uh running around still a little long we get it get it catching up catch you up heck I was playing soccer with with my dog an hour ago yeah which is really great all right okay so let's see what other things are you I'm online um i i u yeah I'm still concerned with with the language as it is I think the intent is yes we don't want to lose any beach access uh accesses I get that but this is all right away I've seen it again I I've seen uh easements that need to be vacated I've seen things you know through time where I I wouldn't put it as a policy to to just negate it uh I think I think we can have a posi a a policy in the positive of we shall try to maintain all existing uh RightWay easements there's a you know say something that there's a benefit to the town in doing that got it but just to say hard fast no I don't get it uh Jim what do you think about this I think there there could be situations Dead End Street or something that uh the town might want to vacate it you know split it between the two adjacent homeowners or to to make a a policy that yeah like what about on dinora all of those uh or all of those seaw walls well that's also on Washington Madison Jefferson all of those have a on the back that has been filled in Clarity it does say access to the shorelines we talking about all easements we're talking about access to the Shoreline so just for clarification the these are accesses to the shorelines where they come off of the dead end of a canal and uh we had a town manager that tried to take that as Town property and we went what you're going to take people's backyards and let that be public no but we wanted to vacate them all and just so that we would not have to have so many cases of vacating the backyard where the the the seaw wall has been brought in and now it's been filled in so that they don't have to vacate it to put in a pool or a fence so those kind of things we do need to do are you saying that a canal would a canal would not be what you think of a shoreline under the under the wording we need some additions it need some additions to the wording that's Cas this that being a superseding this is your town if you want to vacate and access to a water that's fine I'm just explaining what it currently says I don't care yeah right well I think that we want to protect but we also don't want to have it so hard and fast that people can't put in a pool because they can't vacate the dirt that was filled in behind their house so that goes to the propert right this came about because we heard from you that they were concerns about diminishing access to the uh the the the shoreline over time it's been a recurring issue that's also been brought up by you review applications as well maybe we need to dread Nino a little bit differently certainly the portion of establishing anything that way you can reserve access to the coast line is what we had originally recommended for the transportation master plan but then that whole thing you know I said were taken out was you need to designate where those access points are like other Barrier Island communities if you go to say Treasure Island or sunny out Beach or or or or or or other Barrier Islands similar to yourself they have set points and I want the transformation Master PL like okay at this set distance you're going to try to create uh either now or in the future the periodic uh periodic access point so the people living on the other side of the island can go to the beach right uh um but how you want to do that it's just a total matter of policy how many you want is a matter of policy uh um whether or not you want to vacate that then it's also like how do you accomplish that there certain step you take the objection is just the word shall not MH that's a prohibitive language so I I think if you just that language to give some flexibility then it would be something where where beach access points provide a lot of public benefit they're resource for the town we shall protect them and and uh very be very judicial in vacating or or replacing any or something like perhaps uh sorry perhaps then the solution then is to append to what we said with the twoe solution without replacement or demon gred benefit to the town and that way that sounds good uh that way you're not willing nilly just vacating it but if you have a good reason to hey go for it right Eddie we don't really willy-nilly anything around you that's also true that is very very true but you know you know what I was getting it I get it totally and it and very well said there something in here that can eliminate all those backyard vacations not a compl okay never mind you want to do your Cod I I I couldn't think of any examples and I'm glad you guys brought some up but if it's in someone's backyard how someone's going to how is someone going to justify a public benefit so again I'm I'm just like we don't need this guys we we don't need this or we we need something that is not going to be restrictive as soon as we say We'll allow it if you if you can demonstrate a public benefit if a homeowner in Jane's example is saying well I need it for my pool unless I I let everybody I don't know how you're going to demonstrate it's up and down almost all of the state streets that that is a a neighborhood that was filled in when they did the seaw walls to make them all straight and there's between one foot to 5 foot in people's backyards that we have to vacate all the time all right Sarah yeah that's that's an issue that we are dealing with pretty regularly and we don't consider those to be beach access or Shoreline access that's not it say Shoreline access yeah but that's a that's an easement that's not an access okay thank you very much for that clarification great okay let's move on Eddie okay okay not in a willy-nilly manner um where were we we're on medium and we've just got past medium we're making good progress so if they don't have the acre if their lot is smaller than one acre and they have over 10 units what uh it is on page that would be a pre disaster build 13 of the packet and they could get their 11 units and would have to just go higher they just have to meet the requirements of the post disaster or pre- disaster build back it wouldn't have anything to do with height or size so what you're saying is they could only build back what they exactly had yes yes because that's post as asra build back for non-conforming density so that's how non-conforming density applies so that's the benefit if you're this that's the benefit for platted overlay if you happen to have conforming density through the uh platted overlay then you can continue that and you can rebuild and utilize full two units as much square footage as you would be allowed to do in that zoning District whereas if you were non-conforming for density if you exceeded that limit then you had to build back only per the um post- disaster or pre- disaster build back which is the same square footage as was there previously so otherwise you would have to reduce down to the perent yeah so let's assume we've got a one acre lot with 10 units on there if if someone wants to redevelop those 10 buildings today those are conforming density conforming buildings as long as they meet the regular code they can rebuild according to the code if we take away that provision now they have non-conforming density the only protection they have is the the pre-post disaster build back and th those Provisions say you can't build any bigger and so then it would go down to six per acre and if they want to build them as big as they want yeah they'd be at six rather than 10 and they could get to 10 by providing affordable housing that's what we're saying okay but they if it's if they have less than an acre then they're really screwed if they have a less than an anchor you have a fraction of you know you take you take six or 10 divided by your acreage and that tells you your density you can put on there but yeah it it to me you're diminishing people's property rights by doing that that's what I'm thinking but I again I where's that I don't know if it ain't broke why change it that's kind of my my thing is why you know I'm going to have to prove that I'm invested somehow that's my concern well you'd have to anyway I mean if you're except where the future land use maps plaed overlay indicat a maximum density Eddie can you tell tell us what was your reasoning behind this change which one medium medium flu1 B4 um taking out the commercial activities where the B Tak out the commercial activities elements okay it you yeah you want to concentrate them along the corridor you had to make youth that was just really really deep in into the neighborhood or sometimes taking the entire stretch of what you had told us would you wanted to keep at residential only and it doesn't make sense with you're telling us we want to keep on treat the residential only and then in your confine say we're going to allow commercial there okay so what if what if we eliminated the second part but kept the um but kept the top half the first paragraph you know what I'm saying Jane Patrick I'm still scratching my head as to how we're not being inconsistent with S A bill 250 here I just don't even know how we can do that when they can't get their number of units back or the or even a reduced amount they get number of units back but but even the commercial component that Eddie brought up it was allowed in a wider area and now we are making that area smaller therefore someone that had a property that was within that area it could be residential today but they had the right to ask for commercial whereas now they can't ask for commercial unless they do a complim Amendment so I but it's not a disting use um until that's where we would have to refer to the uh the town attorney on her opinion on that that is a concern um a thing can be more burdensome or restricted in the comp plan as well as in Your Land Development code so um I agree with Patrick is this about the S sp250 thing again but that section buyers this in October no in 2026 they extended it that's why I'm worried about this sb250 it's like it's going to rule Our Lives sorry was it commercial or residential only exactly I believe it was that entire paragraph that talks about the um the Land Development regulations and the comp plan but I'll I'll look it up specifically now okay okay yeah um section 14 is SE 14 and I think it was was during the special session in December um this past December where they um Extended it right at the end of the day um we're going to defer to the uh Town attorney on this um uh NY if you if you think that we should keep it in um our recommendation would be keep it in now to be compliant with 250 but in the future 1250 is no longer relevant it not it it's not consistent with your intent at the time no it isn't and I think what I personally think what you've done here is give protection to existing neighborhoods that they will they will remain neighborhoods even though I can also say that the expansion of airbnbs and whatever is a commercial use in neighborhoods but um but beside the point I I have no problem with this section yeah we understand the concernant the town attorney as well because yeah just because uh you know we we we don't just no one's really challenged 250 therefore there is a element of risk there to someone want to challenge it or whether or not it can hold on the basis of uh looking at whether or not they had applied for and had that vested right uh to have commercial on that with the property if you separate out all the ones that do not have commercial and make the district only on the Bas of existing use we can't tell you that that that legal argument is going to hold so I I I've seen I've seen jurisdictions that are very cognizant about diminishing people's property rights and col County's a perfect example where they actually have a PO policy saying that if we do anything from a regulatory standpoint that diminishes your property right you are consistent by policy so you're not non-conforming this policy says that if we change the rules on you you remain consistent by policy and it it just goes to show you that there's different ways to deal with this but but again I think we need to be very careful about um respecting property rights and and avoiding potential lawsuits as a town yeah that's I mean if we're going to have those lawsuits it'll be and this is above and beyond of of Anita I agree with you I think we need to protect neighborhood Ood I get that I I'm just talking more generally uh speaking when it comes to land use rights and I agree with you generally speaking but this particular policy doesn't bother me um well anyway okay can we move on to the next section MH mixed use mixed use totally new all right these are the notes mhm so I think we if you want to to go through them individually let's start uh let's go to the next page after that sorry yeah now do you recall the used to be much bigger and uh with higher density and then we were have to scale back to what uh we we current have I know numbers were thrown out but both star and I looked at the existing comp and we could find mention of 1.4 or anything of the such uh if you if you all have specific knowledge of that we we appreciate it but uh at the same time if we were to take 1.4 it it makes sense anyway based on what you have so it we don't see that as a result of being more restrictive uh um because it wasn't really delineated like that with a with a with a lower number uh I mean with a higher number uh to begin with within the within your existing uh comp plan um so the um what Mario I think has or is preparing for the Time Square is just a minor inset map that we talked about last time we kind of Cu you know it we have it uh written out like these are the boundaries but it's just easier to understand if you have a visual like of what that actually means when you're bounded by those streets um so that will be included as part of the package uh uh um uh um in the final package um so how that spit off it says uh founded by first stre Estero from St Carlo to Pearl Street that's like I mentioned that's confusing that's where we had the we going to have the map insert um it really um has been kind of written in with the with the standpoint of uh to Major things uh how you're going to regulate it from use it from your Land Development code and second from uh a flood perspective uh um now we're not going to put the specifically the blood the flood stuff in the comp plan other than say that you have to comply with it and then it comes out in your Land Development a code um intensity uh uh we're going to be uh changing the uh uh the word there say Land Development regulations uh that's going to be a consistent change throughout to Land Development code once we get to the uh first reading uh stage uh but at you know as we had previously discussed and what we were directed to do was to kind of move all that to the Land Development code so that's how we redid the language based on what we were asked to do uh there um coconut uh Village um I believe there were concern that we had spoken about last time was whether or not uh a mobile wait wait one second did you just say that you're going to move um the intensity basically intensity density section that you're going to move all of that to the LDC that's what we were told to do right and not leave it here I mean because it's here right now right but but but but the the actual rest the maximums are there but the actual restrictions will be in the code okay the that's what we were sorry okay the maximums are always in the yeah so the the max maximum are in the comp plan the details are in the code exactly got it sorry I do have bit more clear on that no that's okay that's okay all a I just imagined this coming out no no sorry yeah because that was the discussion we had about three meetings ago where like well you have to have a Mac ma but do we really need the number in there yeah you have to have the Mac ma in there but you you you can scale it up in in your in your uh as long we say up to Yes um so marrow just double check on that everything it's up to um cut uh Village mixed use uh the discussion from last time are really hon in on um whether or not this prevents us from doing mobile homes uh uh in the future um the did it written in such a way that it doesn't explicitly prohibit it but it doesn't encourage it either so you see there's nothing in the text that said we're going to prohibit mobile home now that's not to say that if you receive a FEMA Grant or if the state comes down and says you shouldn't have on a Barrier Island which they do have that as part of their with the statute the um that those wouldn't apply we just we neutralize the language here a bit is the density uh consistent with what we had before um we believe so a review uh Dar and I had looked at it and we didn't find an issue with it um a good question on that one six per acre seems low for that it certainly does yeah coconut cut six breaker at six yeah and I I haven't had a chance to to cross reference all this stuff but I think the direction that was given was let's make sure that whatever current densities are current f are that we don't reduce them in any way if we if we do go to slightly higher I was you know we we could talk about that but I I think the idea is higher would be fine but lower we can't have any lower we had originally put coconut Village higher and then we reduced It Down based on your request so we're pretty uh we'll double check again but the intent had always been to put it back from the higher number that we had given back to what is to what it was yeah or work now it is yes so that that that always been that intent uh as you recall we had a higher number before I do yeah scared the hell out of me Eddie but but if it was a higher number and now we're reducing it get no it never was an accepted higher number um so okay we' yeah um and that's not area so they actually okay yeah so there here's the confusion um that should actually say Civic Center um and coconut Village is the area that everyone's thinking of as uh Gul you colony and Red Coconut that was not changed from what the current uh I mean it was it was changed from mixed residential to medium residential and the uh the right because it used to be larger and they had a different designation but yeah so it we're thinking it's named incorrectly it needs to be Civic Center and everyone's thinking about coconut Red Coconut which is which is a different density which is a different Beast it used to be part of this and then we got separated back out yeah it it was we were asked to break it down okay well so Civic Center is is the Red Coconut area no what is the Red Coconut right beside it so what's it called Lane over to to Chapel yeah which is what the description I okay and that's called what in here right okay it's called nothing huh can we just um I just like to step back to let's go back to to the downtown district okay um where we got um back to Time Square Time Square Time Square so so I I know you guys said you you went back and you looked at at F ARS right and and again I I I haven't done an exhaustive search I just looked real quick here in our existing plan so it says 2.5 for certain areas 1.5 and then all others 1.0 Okay then if I go to the existing comp plan and we go to commercial intensity it talks about one one um 2.5 and all others are allowed up to 1.5 so let me put that so let me tell you what policy that is that's policy 4 DC3 uh no 4c2 4c2 commercial intensity and what commercial intensity says the Land Development code may allow floor area ratios in The Pedestrian commercial category as high as 2.5 and in other categories as high as 1.5 go back to what it was so you're saying that the 1.0 for all other properties in the downtown district is restri would be more restricted no hotel motel shall be counted as nonresidential go on okay in pedestrian commercial Mario the original map for The Pedestrian commercial for the section Comm for that commercial could we we combine multiple districts to create that node right but we but but the Time Square no combin M so you got to you got you got to take a look to see if uh where the combination of district is because The Pedestrian commercial would be 1.5 but outside of what the original pedestrian commercial would have been 1.0 so if they match up then we make everything 1.5 and above but they don't match up that's where that came in and we can still make it 1.5 but that's probably where that uh um but you're saying there is an existing 1.0 pedestrian commercial if it was out no I'm not saying it was outside if it was not pedestrian commercial because we we did we we we covered multiple District designations together to create but some of it was originally mix mixed residential there I'm not telling you that I I know this comp plan and the code hard right but my my personal understanding having dealt with different areas is I believe and you guys tell me otherwise that unless it's stated differently then everybody can ask for at least 1.5 as the lower threshold and the upper is 2.5 and 2.5 is not accessible to everybody depending where you are but the lower threshold I believe is 1.5 I don't know if it it waset and commercial that could the wording or what that says it that that if you go back to C2 right there see2 before commercial intensity uh so next next page the Land Development cor may allow floor area bu in The Pedestrian commercial category at high at 2.5 and other categories at 1 .5 it is specific to pedestrian commercial so if that if the 2.5 is specific to pedestrian commercial other categories that's not pedestrian person okay I can see where that that that that come in a little bit differently yeah um we can just simply change it to 1.5 then in the uh and then make and then make youth no and go from there yeah I think yeah un unless again unless there's something somewhere that I don't know that says honestly uh we're okay with that because when we actually interviewed some the developers who wanted to come in they said that to make their performance viable for some of the Redevelopment they were looking between three and 3.5 so the fact that's why we actually gave a recomendation that was higher because we had actually interviewed uh potential developers and they told us a higher number than what we have settled on so that it we we we had scaled it back based on what this uh LPA said um development's going to be a little bit differently but we do also want to note that in our interviews with the developers they did give a higher number at their request for uh what will make their Redevelopment viable too okay so so 1.5 perfectly yeah we can we can rain that and then uh yeah thank you we can move on okay okay and then um the second part when you when we were talking about coconut versus MH Civic did I hear that coconut state that District stays exactly the way it was so I think the future landage category for that was both yeah Boulevard and mix it becomes medium and it can retain its pre-existing density if it's higher than yeah than than I see conflict right away with that because medium what we're saying it's all residential now we know that those projects and what we want as Italian is we want miuse they may be requesting residential but we'd like to see a little commercial associated with with those we so we we can't we can't negate the possibility of having commercial on those property we have put that originally at the mix use uh we have to scale it back uh that would thought we agree with that M yeah we thought that that would come in as mix you over time yeah I think both gold viw colony and Red Coconut there's going to be some kind of potential commercial on those properties right it actually will be better from a Redevelopment standpoint if it design that way actually exactly preferable yeah okay okay don't that note uh moving on to the next one we kind of backtracked to Center Island uh or do you do we need to go back over that what's that mix Center Island mix you Center Island I thought that was uh the next one up there it is one to go yeah that's the around public it is yes um it used be larger we scaled it back uh by like at least two or three streets um on one side and then on the stn portion um it was also on the North side before but now it's just on the south side with Madera just to cover what was what we believe were the uh I think they're no longer there some of them the uh the the the the boutique uh motels and hotels uh on the South Side um but it kind of limited that district from uh what it originally was I think Doug Doug had brought up the concern about the boundary and I think I would defer to dog as to does this seem to have addressed what you you were thinking or not and yes it was taking Sable out y think there's a slight halfway isn't that a six FX in there or on the corner yeah uh Doug can you resay what you said on the microphone please cuz oh yeah I'm sorry yeah I think uh other than the some just graphic errors we discussed and and I discussed that it does meet the concern I had excellent yeah but he was questioning the commercial on the street going down Sable yeah uh there they there we have scaled it back from sa are we saying that we need to scale it back over the U the red U indication of do we include that there's a a single family house on the corner of sable in this okay yeah so that's why I think we had scaled it back because it was a single family and you didn't want to inter mix you that's why it was originally at table and now it's no longer at table right yeah we got that right right that's not right oh okay yeah I mean existing it's there's a there's a single family house the corner I mean the next they are now they did have can you can you show just without talking show them right on top of your map so he can see where that should go straight those three lots should be yellow all those are oh okay that the yellow one that you just pointed to to be red got it okay and the other two properties that were one time had Apartments we interpreted that yeah they are yeah no totally understood we misinterpreted it you know you saw what we were working with Y so thank you for that U we'll make that correction thank you Eddie um there's nothing more on uh anything else on that section's the uh sorry let's look at the original map let's do okay yeah that's where it was yeah yeah see it's yeah but these are all single families all the way to the um ocean Harbor the the red the red is one on S or whatever they like four yeah yeah right here so what we see is is red was the mixed residential before um and now it's the medium residential um so we can look at the zoning and see what the underlying zoning might be on that but that definitely would change but that definitely would change uh at least two property from low density to medium it's what you're you're asking us there and again if if it was mixed they have the right to ask for commercial on those MH right yeah we want to make sure that we keep that right okay okay so the next section is um Theater Arts and mixed use District before we go down to theater and arts district quick question we um so the corner of my neighborhood at one point there was an activity center being um what's your neighborhood where the the the women's car wash car car wash in the the Century 21 was MH um I think at least my concerns that I had voiced was um the Women's Club should stay a Civic use and that there's no need to give it a commercial Activity Center designation I think keeping it simply Civic is is a safer approach however I do know that the the the lady that owns the corner uh Cindy has an intent of redeveloping it and right now it's Boulevard and that's perfect example where any new use is causing her trouble she has to go through a PD um my thought was it the activity center for that corner made sense my my my only objection was having the Women's Club included so it it just disappeared completely I don't know if there was any other input or why it was eliminated completely we we were told to remove it well I don't remember which meeting but we were tot to remove it I don't recall the reason why but that's why it was gone um but certainly if the lp wants us to bring that that portion no we're happy do you remember what that was the women club and what we're trying to clarify is is yes I I had recommended that we remove that designation for the Women's Club which is a I don't know if if you got direction from Council or otherwise I that I don't know but I don't think this body said eliminate that that whole Activity Center no that needs to remain because there's businesses there it we can listen back to the notes um I do believe that the council did say to remove it but we can listen to it again um for clarification regarding the uh red that you see on there uh between Sable and Bay View maybe I don't know um those those three lots those are RC zoned we wouldn't want to change them to Yellow we would want to keep them red okay because of the density okay not density of right okay yeah there's a there's a CLE family house on it now right and that one see spit right there that lot right there where half red half yellow I believe is one lot right what that's correct I think that's I mean we'll double check it okay but let's get back to the Women's Club and the former Car Wash property and mosquito and mosquito control is back there too that's alloul on this goes back far does it go back far enough to okay so I do remember to recall a note there I don't recall why it was removed I just recall that we were asked to remove it because at one at one point we were told it was too small and uh it needed to be expanded a little bit then we came back with an expanded version and they were like oh no why do we have that there does it make sense to have that many uh um why don't we get rid of it uh um it wasn't just about uh you know part of it when when we actually expanded at beginning was to remove the Women's Club um and the m and the mosquito control uh but then there were opportunities around it that if you you make the district a little bit bigger you could create a critical mass and that was presented and that was shut down from my my understanding and so but we were uh that's why that is where it is today if the lp wants to recommend that back to the council that that should be a node uh we can what we can do is we can package that as a separate item or as part of this as part of the recommendations um that to send back to council and let them make the final determination there right right that yeah that the idea was that that would make sense to be part of that no but let me ask this all from from lazy way down to looks like tropical no I mean um I can't think of the word but anyway why are those all low density on a sterile Boulevard that doesn't make any sense the original Oh all those yeah all those res yeah yeah but they're also on the boulevard yeah it's always been like that at least across from the beach and my my thing is is I'm not necessarily advocating for an activity center or not I think at the very least we know it was Boulevard and there was commercial use there and we need to address the boulevard issue again of allowing those to redevelop as commercial right uh without necessarily handcuffing them the way are today maybe I don't know what the will of this this committee is maybe the activity center makes sense maybe it does and I look I I live there I don't want to Advocate either way I just want to make sure that at the very least we acknowledge the commercial that was there right I agree commercial right we have always thought of that as having a lot a really high potential value for the town when it gets redeveloped um that's why we proposed what we did um let's just note this as a um a point of conflict okay perfect oh we know yeah we'll know that specifically we'll specifically call it out when we bring this before council did did the uh did did the D opinion and the comment issued by the uh LPA regarding that area um and we'll provide an appropriate recommendation for if they want to take up and go the same route at the LPA what what that should entail um um Mr Vette if it will be okay I'll have Mario contact you uh uh um so we can kind of go back to what we had previously discussed about having something larger than just that women club and seeing how how if condition change and just draw an appropriate outline that's okay with the lp as well thank you very much thank you all right uh theater and arts I think we had covered this partially earlier we corrected that one parel uh at the very south uh so that it ends just at the theer um the rest of this would originally um uh pedestrian commercial and um really just just look towards um looking for like theater art ground floor cafe or ice cream shop type of things uh um that's walking distance to Neighborhood uh it is a transition from the boulevard itself to the single family behind it uh that's how we view it we would recommend that when you go through the Land Development code portion that you uh kept the height appropriately based on the fact that this thing Family behind it but as written that's what um that's what the intent um I'm curious what you think was since we have an idea of things that are going what would you think an appropriate height to transition to single family would be um depending on what the single family is if it's like a two-story duplex you can probably do uh three with a little bit above uh there if it's one story uh two to three it's generally appropriate aing more and that becomes a dark difference right exactly exactly and you know I I don't want to give an over specific answer because as you consider how your housing of family hous is to be in the future we did really want you to consider how you might make the ground floor non-habitable in the future uh uh as a means to you know help with uh potential future theed doctors you know hopeing n happen I'm going to knock on wood because it's a beautiful and wonder Community but we want to make sure we plan accordingly and how we structure those as well okay I had one question on the dolphin because the dolphin looks like it's outside of that it's mixed residential is that right at the top of EET right uh it's on the it' be on the yeah it'd be uh between and Ibis I think yep I've got the old cop the new cop got so that's he's prepared thank God it's about time he comes in prepared right it's usually a turn slacker over there hardly that's why we keep him on the end um yeah so what about the dolphin because it's stuck there now it's it seems like it would be why wouldn't it be an extension of that proposed mix use cuz it's it's a boutique hotel with a tennis court next to it I think is that other lot maybe we pull off yeah what was it in before was it what what was it before Sarah do you know or Patrick since you've got them all zooming in there it was in mixed residential before okay but should we guarantee it some opportunity to be uh would it be easier for its Redevelopment if it was in the green zone seems like it would right because I think it would make sense they so so I think for for that existing Hotel it does make sense because I think we fully so if it's mix residential it used to be residential I think what we're saying is can stay residential they have every right to do so they don't have but but if they want to they could ask for whereas we have commercial or we had commercial pre storm so including within that Activity Center Maybe IDE Redevelopment but it doesn't doesn't harm the Neighbors in any way because it was already commcial I would add it in on the zoning map it's showing as CR on the old zoning map commercial commercial Resort or whatever that we always B it as well um you just a little uh bit quick note for your consideration as well is when you make uh make you nodes there's a certain aspect outside the code that you can use for redevelopment purpos and that is branding and so when you create a district and you create a brand for it and that part uh you know that dolphin far that brand then sometimes that help I can see that happening here yeah so one of the things that was talked about before were um and I see it as artisanal retail is that intended to allow people that are making their art being able to sell it in the same location yes they can come in many formed either as a small uh space for for Market to a art gallery um it's have to crafty appropriate regulation from a form based perspective for that I think the intention there right was there was a movie theater there and then there was a little there's a little art there's a little art store at the bottom of the um the little condo I can't remember what it was yeah next to the bank condo that you're talking about the condo there so was that commercial at the bottom right they had a little commercial but then they got rid of the commercial and I think sold anyway called The Gallery something yeah so but those aren't there like the beach theaters was closed before the storm so um you know I just I think are we creating something that really wasn't there right before if we are that's fine I mean I'm but if we're trying to keep what was there there's no there's no theater going to be there I don't think anymore well the theater's there I mean yeah yes but it's not going to be it's intended to be a restaurant I think I understand but I don't know that we've actually seen anything on that happen and theater movie The a motion picture movie theater is different than I think Arts Theater yes it is for sure yeah so but just back to the Dolphins so there's two lots there there's two pieces of property there we should allow them to come back the way they were I know they've like asphalted it recently and I don't know if they're putting their tennis court back or something I don't know what they're doing but the point is those are both lots that lot on I right Ibis and the stero make the appropriate change pickle balls right across the street than um the on on the other side so there's dolphin and then next door to that that actually belongs to Seawatch which is across the street it belongs to is wind yeah yeah which is where I live yep the two the two tennis courts yeah it doesn't belong to DOL no correct so it's a different right it belongs to is the winds which would be what mixed residential probably well it's it's only a it's only for tennis courts and a boat dock but so do we so it's a condominium common element do we want to put a new zoning District or a new uh future land use District on a condominium common element no no okay that's what I'm asking yeah I would not include the island winds uh that it is that's what I stop yeah stop at Ibis yeah okay so yeah there's a there's a prop I'm looking at the aerial Lepa aerial and there's a property there where dolphin had a tennis court the dolphin in had tennis courts I'm pretty sure it was dolphin in's tennis courts that's what I'm saying that's that's seatch oh it's yeah that that common element belongs to Seawatch oh Seawatch has had a tennis court yeah and that's next to Dolphin anything that belongs to a we I'm sorry yeah okay that's what I was trying to figure out thank you watch stays the same are we all clear on that now yes Hallelujah let's move on okay perfect well no Patrick that's okay so so I look at the old future land use map and what we're showing as Activity Center was Boulevard so so at least logically we're keeping the same boundaries it makes sense to me I do want to be sensitive to we received letters from some of the owners around there I can't remember what they say they said exactly do we feel comfortable that we've at least acknowledged their letters and I don't I can't remember what they're points were but do we address their point do we you should have a copy of them yeah okay um I don't have it here it's in it was in EM yeah we we have't increased density um and it's not our intent to increase intensity exactly right so then Mount mve to B and the the details regarding height and uses will be handled within the the LDC update so I I don't think I don't think that I mean other than you know we added a few properties we went a little bit further just to go back to what it was but but we you know we also recognized that we went in one up from the the movie theater so if that was a concern okay we're bringing it back down so that is a single family residential there still so I I don't think that we're doing anything to that neighborhood that I think Miss Madden's concern what is that is this you know it's commercial encroachment into our neighborhood which you know we're all concerned about but I don't um I think what we've done here is clarify that and it does not expand right it doesn't expand into our neighborhood okay that that was it if we've we've if we've acknowledged this and we address it I'm I'm but I tell you this is one of the one of the best written letters emails I can remember getting it it's so it's so thorough and precise so miss Madden if you're watching this uh kudos to your letter writing and uh she just she just lays it out beautifully right okay so um all right let's move on to the next section tantini oh Patrick you need to eat one of your crackers honey it's been a long day this is a tough day kind of would you would you open up the poor man's crackers for probably too weak he is too weak DN God love him baby all right um here we go that with the Santini uh Village mixed use District we also touched on this do we need to touch on it again anyone I don't think so we it was it was uh it was yeah it's what it was before is what Sarah said so there's no Marina there but there was no Marina there before it was in the S it's in the S it was in the and it does state that the marina use shall remain yes it does I mean in the future if you want to include Lenell we left it off that would be a natural extension in the future but it doesn't have to be there now well no I wouldn't Does it include the like Firehouse and things or whatever that was back down that street yeah we were we were asked to include that actually your request actually yeah the fire station's there but then it's done okay yeah that's good I agree yeah there's nothing everything else is mixed res awesome all right Maxim 1.5 yeah Mario will fit for all let's make it let's make sure it fits for all yep um bolevard I believe we had to hold over a question from earlier in the meeting on that I think that looking at it uh based on our conversation I would still strike that last sentence but as the concern is existing then there's parallel TCH that we just copy being paced over from the other District which essentially if you look we recall from earlier on we had if you have it you could still have it we just take that same sentence and we apply it here and and that will that that you alleviate the concern from earlier I I believe right and remove the plan development resoning process I think is what Patrick had ra yes that as well yep yeah we'll strike that as well all right pedestrian commercial uh pedestrian commercial um how are we addressing this against eror does anybody have any questions on this section no M okay we as yeah I I was saying um every time we we have the mention of the the planted overlay the up to 10 units per acre um I'm okay with with um our consultant and staff um wanting to clarify that I don't have a problem with that but let's not remove that completely well yeah we could also remove the entire day for for it it's no longer something that you have on the map it's not on the map the yeah though the question is where before we remove it is sometimes you have things in the comp plan for example City of Homestead had that where they have categories in there for the future they want to go back to it or they want to put something in new just because you have a definition for it doesn't mean you have to have on the map it just gives you the opportunity to redesignate it so so our question that a consultant and after to you what whether or not we just removed it entirely but we're okay with remov entirely that we would suggest but we need to clear it out with you first what are your thoughts on that any um John or Jim any any comment on that removing I'm wondering why we need it at this I'm not sure we need it if it's not listed in the legend on the map personally John Jim what do you think Sarah wants to say something I don't want to hear from Sarah I want to hear from you what what Sarah so so my thought is it doesn't hurt to leave it in there if you needed to move something to a different if if because the mixed use districts kind of need to have enough area to um uh create some I'm not coming up with the words I apologize critical mass there you go need to have enough you know fridge space businesses to do something um whereas if somebody just wants to change to a slightly more intensive and just do a single unit this would you know allow like if they wanted to do a CPD they might want to change from um medium residential to pedestrian commercial and then do their own CPD does that make sense yes it does so so from a flexibility standpoint res reserving the uh clarification with the definition no harm no foul yeah doesn't hurt it might be a little confusing if somebody looks and they're like well where is it on the map but it it's an opportunity then I I I have no OB in leaving it with that kind of clarification how do you guys feel about that Doug I'm okay with it if it gives flexibility for a certain type of commercial development yeah I like keeping it um one thing I'd like to point out though is some of the language that's used there talks about this is the most intense future land use category for the town and I think there's value in in identifying what that intent is and we haven't really translated that as clearly in the new district for downtown um I think I think the the the u f that we apply infers that by saying 2.5 but I think having the Lang anguage of this is meant to be intense and and I think that I think there's value in having that if not for anybody else coming in in the future and asking for something and pointing to what the intent was in the first place the intent and the the the the idea was this was going to be uh the most intense Development Area of of Fort Myers Beach all right we had shied away from that for your consultant because we had gotten a lot of back and forth if uh on that on whether we call it moderate or medium or high and what that how that kind of play differently in the mind of different folks uh if you say relatively High well uh you know you have S your family well five stor is relatively high but that's not going to be high elsewhere uh um if we take it from our professional standpoint all the that mode are going to be uh moderate low moderate uh uh um but then you know we get Qui back like well are we really changing anything or or or is that going to disincentivize investment um we're happy to put in the word moderate low moderate and so forth at your direction uh but I think that uh why I want to point out before we do so I I I don't know what the I'd have to give it some thought as to what me too the most appropriate language but I think I think what what this does is is from a even from a relative standpoint even if yes we this is a lot less intense than a Miami we get it right so but from a relative standpoint of of Fort Myers Beach these are still intended to be the most intense nodes on the beach so I think there's there's a need to convey that somehow I don't know what the appropriate language is but but let's just respect that that was identified and that we keep that in mind in the future of of those noes were intended to be the most intense for Fort Myers Beach whatever that may be right that I think it's a good way of kind of threading that needo because you're you're making it um you're tying it back to the Quality to the community and not what's outside and so that gives a better depth to the definition to from an understanding standpoint okay uh well uh we'll make those changes accordingly um you all this Mario wonderful good okay the next one is Marina and we all agree that Marina should stay in right it's it's very valuable to the community I mean we're an island and uh having that use I think is super important yep it should say 1.5 now I want to point that out right off the bat um we had uh mentioned four gr unit per acre a discussion with staff um that come from staff recommendation actually uh what this also helped by preserving this is that the state does want the comprehensive PL when you're a uh Coastal Community to consider your working Waterfront and that's actually part of the state statutes in your review and so did actually helped you meet that criteria by preserving this um if you recall when we did not have that we actually worked the working Waterfront criteria to help you U meet uh the review process later on by incorporating that directly into the mixed use District because these marinas are now what it is we've taken those aspects back out and placed them accordingly um it is an important point though because when it go through the they cor to review proct that they will look for that okay very good run that by me again the the four units per acre was that existing or is that proposed s very low yeah uh the the the allowed density was very low I don't recall what it was exactly but we can double check on that and again just consistent with what it was not not more the the that brings brings up a good issue of of we're looking at some of these these mixed used opportunities on the beach and I I don't know if we've got policies that clearly address density versus intensity and how you so so the the whole double dipping uh issue that you see in a lot of communities where it it's other communities have policy that it's very clear you um you know you can you can try to maximize both your intensity and your density or you know there there's there's ways to address it it it's not I don't think it's clear today and we do have some projects that will be mixed use and how do you deal with both density and intensity that's a very good point because it's something that's constantly confused and I find very confusing for most people uh and when projects come up and you start talking about density intensity that that's a good point that Patrick raises what are your thoughts on that Sarah you're kind of up kind of down um so I think that it would be very good if we did have a specific policy about how we want to do that um I think that it makes the most sense to apply intensity to to to have the the limit on density but also to apply the intensity limitation because intensity is how much bulk you have on the site so having the overall bulk and within that you can you know for we we could look at it like form based when it comes to mixed use you know you get this bulk and within that you can fit you know however much density you can get and however much retail space you can get um but it all has to fit in the box that's my thought what are I'm I'm curious what your thoughts are it's a tough issue because I've had people ask me on the beach where it was it was a hotel a little hotel with a certain a certain intensity so it was commercial was commercial lodging mhm and they have they're non-conforming from a a a density standpoint so they have more units on there than we would currently allow but moving forward they're not thinking about doing Hotel they would like to go to residential residential is very limited so they're they're having to weigh what they really want to do versus what could be a higher and best use type of deal and they're like well what if we do mix and I'm like well not sure what the answer is if you do a mix of both and and it's it's unclear and we could we could deal with those one-on-one as plan developments for sure but again it it's up to you know we're going to have to probably address that in the near future with some projects well and a plan development would be very costly if they are small so you're back to the Catch 22 is it viable to build and so they're not that that they're not that small yeah but if they're doing that there are some that are that small there actually are I can think of one they might be able to take care take advantage of what we're trying to put through though the plan development with the development agreement Dev and the reason I bring it up is is when you look at at least my the vision I have or the the mental picture I have of an activity center is is promoting mixu MH um and and if you don't find a way to clearly you ask uh if you want to do a little commercial with a little lodging and a little residential and how that works if it's the only way I'm going to find out is by asking for it through a PD that's a little reactionary we're not being proactive and trying to Define it so that's I'm just highlighting the fact that we don't have clear Direction our comp plan as to and and that parly by design based on the comments we got back you recall earlier iteration we had brought forward Concepts such as not only just the F but what is your blueprint uh what what the floor plate coverage is it 90% it 80% the 70% because those are the dimensions that actually restrict your intensity now does that mean you necessarily need them in the comp plan it's that's a policy choice you can choose to have your maximum uh intensity in the form of uh dictating your maximum floor plates and so forth and and another aspect and then but if you in absence of that then uh it will apply Your Land Development code through the ideas of step back of height limitation of second and upper story uh height step backs and so forth um there's no correct answer for how you can apply that uh except that there is one wrong answer it's if you set it in your comprehensive plan and the intensity is lower than what you end up needing want it to actually be um so um but but past that there's really no wrong way to address it either by setting the maximum in your comprehensive plan or if it's not there uh originally we did recommend a series of that and presented that to you all uh but uh but past that then it's about how how and in what manner you put in your in your uh code uh expect on a form basis so you know um so here I'm thinking uh I have no idea what you know what property it was you were talking to but I'm just thinking about that that little parcel that little hotel that was called Villa Gulf or something right there besides sancer or not whatever on the on the corner yeah so so what you're saying is that maybe someone would want to take what was a hotel and in dead now have eight condominium units let's say or four condominium units on top floor on the second floor have uh 20 Hotel units and then on the ground floor have a store a little market and something else is that what you're envisioning yeah or a combination of any of that but got the par window we got yeah but it's it's interesting so I think this is an interesting discussion however very limited on time and I think that we can put this in the Land Development code and that's what I would prefer we do this this could get really big thank you s I think that this is an important topic but well then will you remember it because I think it's it's easier to change in the Land Development code than it is in the comp yes so we so Eddie I'm also going to take back the willy-nilly comment because clearly we are a little willy-nilly sometimes oh good okay okay next is Recreation and open space um uh did anybody have any any questions or issues on this section no NOP okay Wetlands uh I don't think anybody's going to have anything on that and tital water and then the next Zone the next section is ploted overlay and this is totally taken out mhm um and and Eddie remind us the reason why it's totally taken out because you've to redefined it other places yes okay yeah just up everything else I apologize and need I clearly did not come here prepared uh I'm I'm reading the we're giving you a pass today honey total pass I'm um I'm reading the recreation open space yeah okay so you um we assign a certain very low density but we do assign the density to the wreck Area 1 to 20 and that's gone um I do know that a lot of these Beach redevelopments it doesn't account to to a lot of units but it it could be where it it could be enough to round up to one extra unit so people value that value that density even if it's very low a value to them but for recreational land owned by the so so most of the most of all the the beachfront lots and existing hotels uhhuh their their land goes all the way to water and there's a component where they can't develop on the wck part but they can get some limited d density and it's it's extremely little but there's a value to that density could it could you know if you've got several Acres it could be you know wind up with 0.25 of unit but that 0.25 might be enough to create where you round up and you have one extra unit what would you create on a recreation like I look atation it just it's just a way to calculate your density so if you're like using half of a stir bouevard yes your but your property has has both a designation of recreation and something else you can only develop on whatever that other future landage category but you can generate some limited density do you understand what he's saying Eddie yes and no yes because you're essentially transferring on a property ATT tap one destination to the other but um you know and and and in the and the and how it actually would be practically applied here you still have the 1978 castal construction line that would prohibit you from a building on the Parks and Recreation Area so that kind of solved that question because from the St point of the acreage and open calculation at the you know um you need to not build on recreational open space in order to account for your concurrency requirements um um but otherwise become residential and not Recreation open space which is why there's a uh in congruency there that I'm trying to resolve Patrick isn't Patrick say aren't you saying though that you like for instance is or like the Windam they have a beach front they have a recreation area that has a density to it they could use that density on their on their property right on the property they could build on so basically you give no no because legally speaking uh conct me wrong uh uh M attorney it's uh if you are half you can say your property is half beach front half res your residential has a maximum density what you're implying here the facto does a TDR type transfer that would not actually be legally permissible uh without some motor mechanism so that the argument of of transferring that instead of building on the actual property itself doesn't make sense to me yeah I I can tell you and I understand what you're saying but I can tell you that we do not have that clarified and that's not the way it's been applied for decades on Fort Myers Beach so you can generate density that you can cluster again it's not it's not a transfer because it is one unified property you're not it's it's clustered within that property and there's two designation on but it also says here it has to be 20 acres no no so what it says is is is it's one unit per 20 20 acres so so again if you've got 10 acres you get half a unit okay so let's assume the scenario where you've got 10 acres of recreational and your total property might be 50 acres so the 10 acres you would get do we have something half a unit you're never going to be you're not never going to be able to build in the wreck but that half unit will be applied to whatever other density and it could be just enough to to round it up to we don't have 50 acres Sarah what are you saying J I'm not very good at math I need to keep nice big whole numbers Sarah okay I've never seen an instance where it did where where it did make a difference however you are correct if it's a single unified parcel and half of it is wreck and half of it is um a buildable whatever um you know you see this on a lot of the hotel properties pink shell you know the the wind out rer yeah so so there could be potential to potential to round up I mean you have to have a lot of acreage for it to make any difference but so then do we want to leave this last sentence we can we can leave it it doesn't hurt it it's I've never had it make a difference but it could but you know what we're in extraordinary times and I I do think it would be it would diminish what they had right so we we we'd rather leave it in yeah yeah if you run into tro later you can always trke it dead thank you Eddie all right so um Patrick thank you for bringing us back to that now Wily Wily willy nilly um all right so the next uh we're all kind of silly today um so then the next uh policy or or it's the revised future land use 1b1 12 uh defines all the land use uh types all right um do we need to go through those specifically or so you know go ahead right before that we've got the platted overlay and and again just just to put it on record all right you guys are going to look at that and how the the 10 units breaker yes yeah so I'm going to go through by page now um Eddie if you have something Sarah or anyone here you let me know so page 21 anybody have any issues here with um with land use types defined or with public facil facilities if not anything on schools applying the future land use map legal effect or commercial intensity no want me to give that one a minute because of the commercial intensity portion uh which doesn't look like there's anything okay um I'll move on to page 23 commercial locations yes Patrick yeah I'm I'm back up yeah I'm backing up okay I'm I'm looking at the uh schools category mhm okay so I'm I'm trying to follow the sent saying public schools are allowed in all mix all districts um and then it says provided that the school is and then where we going does n is n compliant is that not cord of okay not CW word of the of yeah okay and compliant with flood and other regulations well we again we can't have in compliant correct we we can't have that the the school is not compliant right now with blood regulation it is designated historical on the Federal Register so then let's just include that unless designated yeah designated historic or just exempt the school completely from this we have one school let's exam that school good point we fought very hard for this school that's sure let's not have anything jeopardize it yes I agree all right that make sense yeah let's do it so Patrick what would you like to eliminate here you want to exempt our existing school with the flood with flood and other regulations I don't know as soon as you say compant with that makes our school non-compliant do you want to make a specific exemption like exempting Beach Elementary School I don't know I'm a little frazzled today I don't know if I'll come up with the best language so I'm just I like you frazzled you just exempt the Beach Elementary School I would I would exempt the existing historic Beach Elementary School draw a box it yeah that that that is exactly how I put a deep historic Beach Elementary School is exempt from this requ we don't limit that to having extension but if for example they built a new school it would have to comply with all of this yes they a private provider comes in and you have a charter school for 15 students because it's not a particularly large community but you have that localized need and could be public could be private could be Char whatever uh um then uh yeah we would want them to comply okay I think it's a great idea yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so um moving on to uh future land use 1c3 which is commercial locations um does anybody want to take a quick two-minute break five minute break anybody I do you've got to oh you've got a wait let's go can we go to 2:00 he's got a 2:00 meeting 15 more minutes wait leaving I have to uh I you have to leave Doug has to leave you have to leave too no how about you John I'm okay I need a break at some point you need a break let's take a break Mario will be here for the rest duration that you need him to be Edie thank you very much for your patience with us and your um endurance well my pleasure um I I I feel like we're making really good progress uh um we're sellling things and that's going to be it the things that we that's it that's it that's it much safe travels home Eddie look forward to seeing you again okay e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e back um live after having our yogurt uh raisins and everything and uh Doug had to leave and Don is currently um uh taking care of some business and he will return so Mario come on up and tell us your name name for the record and we'll start with where we left off which is with building Heights unless somebody needs to go back Patrick wants to go back so where are we going where are we gonna go back to Patrick thank you um thank you everyone my name is Mario Don I'm with the cordino group and um I've been nice to meet you Mario like I said I'm like nice to meet you and I'm it's a pleasure to be here I didn't expect so much activity on the island so soon and it's really impressed it is it is quite impressive you're absolutely right um Patrick what where where do you want to scoop back to uh page 14 commercial intensity p p page 14 he's on an earlier version as him oh oh so you're using the little blue letters the little blue numbers page 22 of 112 okay so what what policy commercial intensity uh fu1 C2 yes so commercial intensity says uh will encourage more intense commercial uses on properties with Frontage on a stero Boulevard and only in the mix use and Comm and Commercial categories so we decided to keep pedestrian commercial and we also um and again I don't know how we're going to address Boulevard but um uh assuming that Boulevard is going to be opened up a little more for other uses then some of those uses may be more intense therefore that should be included also in there so along with mix use and Commercial at the Boulevard yeah and keep The Pedestrian commercial yes because we're leaving it in good point anybody have any questions or thoughts on that or do we move on agreed um commercial locations um building Heights well Jim the words uh the town May encourage taller buildings I guess I would prefer the town May entertain encourage seems like we are promoting hey which we know is a hot button uh yeah encourage is probably the absolute worst word to have there historically um or maybe it's not uh so um uh ENT him or allow or what could what could a better word be there consider consider consider consider thank you for that Jim anybody have anything else here on this particular section okay um so uh there is one change here going from two to three stories did you see that mhm but there's an or there do are we do we count the ground level as a story or yes yeah the ground level is counted as a story there is there should we have discovered and we were aware of and we're going to be uh proposing it actually at the next LPA hearing um a change to the downtown zoning District where it currently says you can only have two stories which means one story over flood that will be coming back to us at our next meeting yes excellent cuz I was going to bring that up could I just elaborate on that for a second sure so I had a conversation with a friend of mine who's uh who looking to sell their property and the question to me was Anita how what can I build in Time Square I said two two stories over flood 30 feet you shaking your head you can't today because you have to count the ground floor so I went what and I said you guys not listen to me what do you guys not listen to me I brought it it's about 50% of the time brought it up about 10 times have yes yes and I agreed with it well I'm telling you Patrick I missed it because I I I I made the comment that you know this hasn't there's been no it's never been tested when did you bring that up it's time it we came up well I apologize I thought it was just may it too over flood it's too over flood it's you can build two stories over flood however you know what I even made the comment that I was surprised you two stories two stories including anything on the ground level anything on the ground level so if you've lost your ground level you essentially have lost value in one story that could potentially use okay so it's coming next next month fantastic news okay and then theoretically would it come next month and go to the council to the their following meeting so it would require correct advertising and I'm not sure that we could uh advertise it SK yeah I think we would have to skip the following meeting and get it on the next yeah or last meeting of April yeah something like that I'd have to look at the dates last meeting very good thank you so this has changed to three so that still means ground level one and two so you still have the opportunity to a plan do a plan development ask for more but here's my question it no taller than two so we've stricken the original two and said three so we're giving them a floor the ground floor for developments long uh shall be encouraged to provide nonh habital non-habitable space why are we increasing the stories is my question we're not Inc why because the zoning districts allow it and all of our zoning districts allow it except for that one little place in the downtown so it just matches okay um Mario you stop me when you've got something to point out or question okay okay uh density any issues on this policy um Computing densities yeah what is it again we are reducing it we're we're reducing people's existing property rights So So currently they can use the canals and farther RightWay and we're we're reducing that so Mario as you review this this is a biggie for us we don't want to um we don't want to increase abilities in the comp plant but we also don't want to uh eliminate somebody's ability in the comp plan and I'll give you a perfect example on that when it comes to rounding up I've got a property close to my home where years ago it was for sale and if you included the canal portion of it and the rideway portion of it you went from being able to put one house on that property to two because you had enough that you could round up to the additional unit so yeah those things make a difference so we want to okay it all right um transient densities this this has all been stricken except for the first uh sentence yeah in an attempt to to simplify um using the so establishing the new with the established new FS that are being proposed um that's what would set the standard for the the transient density whichever one is the more restrictive of those so how does that work I'm not when we say whichever is more most restrictive when we say we're going to have different FS for different places so it's not the most restrictive I don't I don't get whichever is the most restrictive I don't understand it how that's applying and it's in the lbos for the comp plan yeah um so I I don't know that it actually needs to say whichever is most restrictive because it's just said Pro the Land Development code shall provide for the uses of commercial mixed use or transient residential F whichever is more restrictive and a minimum hotel motel sizes as calculated by a as the basis for calculating transient residential units so I don't even know that we need um to say the transient residential units or whichever is most restrictive I think that we can just say provide for the usage of commercial mixed use or transient residential F and a minimum Hotel size yeah and and have and but not even have to calculate um but yeah not even have to calculate that density it's just f um this sort of brings me to to an issue so right now um we we have a lot no you know what I'm not going to touch on it we can touch out on the LDC God bless you Sarah we like that yeah so which whichever is the most restrictive definitely strike that and then you'll be clarifying in the LDC okay okay accessory dwelling units for Residential Properties I'd like to throw something out on this is ker county has in their definitions that an accessory dwelling unit can't be larger than 60% of the primary structure of structure there there's no restriction on this high of what the accessory dwelling unit could be here do we care do we want to have it so that it can't be of equal or size of the primary unit um one of the reasons that we we don't have that well I don't know that we could do that at this point cuz that would be more restrictive but also um we have what we're calling accessory dwelling units and we don't really have any sort of limit on it has to be smaller than the primary there is no necessarily primary and accessory you know a lot of times they're treated as duplexes they're similar in size and um we we don't necessarily treat it as like here's a house and here's the guest unit does that make sense so it's just applied differently here I don't know that we can because we haven't had it before so I'm not sure that we would be able to limit that do we other than vested or nonconforming units do we I don't think we currently allow accessory red dwelling units believe it's existing only in special exception but we have a lot of existing and and we wouldn't necessarily want to put additional requirements on those because they are a lot of a lot of them are yeah but a lot of them are being treated size-wise as you know like it's it's a duplex you know they're the both the same size units and and I think that's it they my understanding is we don't allow them anymore it's it's all existing or or somehow they were approved somehow or vested and they're going to retain those rights as the side so I I agree with you should we decide as a town that we are going to start allowing accessory dwelling units there should definitely be a cap I agree with you but right now we don't we don't allow it is that not something that we might want to promote for affordable housing I I I think I've I've told everybody before I I would support that for owner occupied but it does open up a can of warms of and then would it be available for airbnbing and the rest of that too right but that that's where we ran into an issue we were trying to find ways to you know we had a lot of conversations about affordable housing before and after the storm um it there was interest in affordable housing Workforce housing um attainable housing prior to the storm there was a lot less after um so and and I think one of our biggest issues would be how do we ensure that it is it remains affordable that it doesn't get turned into a rental unit um it it would require yeah the town to to take an active role in this process and it it doesn't seem like something that is of interest to the town right now although we have talked about it and I think that the um auxiliary dwelling units may have you know some role on that that would which is the next one this is a new policy and if we look at this one what it says is is by having that keeping that in the comp plan if we change our Land Development go to allow them we've got them and and just an FYI what what we have is it's counted as half a unit from a density standpoint so I'm I I'm okay with that but let's we have to acknowledge that but that auxilary auxiliary dwelling units is only talking about commercial so on Commercial properties and Residential Properties have these units so we need to keep something in there for them yeah well let's read this next policy which is auxiliary dwelling units for commercial properties uh the town this is all new the town shall explore and provide the Land Development regulations that provide auxiliary dwelling units in existing commercial structures while maintaining commercial uses on the ground floor the town shall explore density transfer of existing transient units in properties designated commercial to facilitate the development of auxiliary dwelling units on properties with a land use designation of commercial that's a doozy so this concept of uh auxiliary dwelling units is coming from um from Arlington Virginia and that's to allow for uh residential units on commercial buildings um the idea is to pull from those properties that were originally with the land use designation of commercial and pull their their the density that they have those properties and be allowed to be transferred to um to these new units uh but this is a directive as to explore and and to explore and and get our input on yeah as opposed to so what do you all think of this Sarah what did you think of this I thought it was a really good idea um something that we should look into um especially with the uh transfer of um units that might make a lot of sense um because we would be creating potentially housing units that could be affordable for Workforce um in you know smaller units over uh you know retail something like that so it it seems like a good thing to look at uh uh shipwreck on old San Carlos uh how would that work he could well I mean there there's already some existing density on those units um and this would this be sort of like let's look and see what we can do and if there's a way to ensure that these are housing units um as opposed to rental units I think that's the big interest here is I mean it doesn't specifically say that but it's a way for us to ensure that we're looking at it I I think a good example is we had the um interior design place that came us yes and the owner is going to live on top yep that would be auxiliary to to the commercial and I think to me that's a great use I think that that's uh I think we should definitely explore it how will we uh how will we um protect the notion that it will be residential not rental not rentals and I think that's something that we have to look into because that was and and we wanted to include something that sort of encouraged more exploration in this area because we know that it's needed but right now we're not in a position as a town to manage that program but maybe there's a way to to find some options to find some spaces for you know Workforce housing which is you know in high demand and I think there's there's a few ways that come to mind right away of of someone has to be employed uh one of the businesses in that building or it could be you put a minimum six-month lease has to be you you know you have to enter into a long-term lease with someone 6 months or more and while you have to to provide a whole lot of evidence you do have to provide a copy of the lease so yeah you put put a put a covenant restriction or something on it and okay I like the idea what do you guys think I think it's a great okay get okay so I've been kind of quiet um because I haven't really for that Nancy well what what is what is uh the understanding of the word explore um have you used that in other comp plans because I don't want to you have the town in a position where it's supposed to be um taking some very proactive action and has it has it not um I don't know I can so we changed we changed uh what was the word what was the word consider consider is the word and and not that it was my word either no no just that I want to give some parameters as far as what are we actually committing I like consider better somebody's going to bring it to us we're not going to go out exploring for these opportunities well I mean it could be consider it could be evaluate it could be I mean and they're very sub seen in other I've seen evaluate and I've I've seen consider but consider is I I like to evaluate okay I I would prefer something that's a little more um a little bit more proactive than consider because consider is like well I thought about it and it's I don't want to do it and and is that the will of the LPA something a little bit more than just objective than subjective thank you all right density transfers um you know density transfer has been a thorn in the side of the town from day one and I'll tell you why let's see where I find it here it has to do with proximity two Parcels affected by that are in close you've eliminated it that was the that has been the thorn so uh you know London Bay bought the Outrigger they also bought what's the other one down here I want to call it seabird it's not seabird Sandpiper and so uh if they wanted to transfer the Charlie's Boat House density to the Sea what is it called SE sander Sandpiper the Sandpiper it would be whole dis discussion about proximity and we've had this Jan what I don't I'm trying to remember the particular case uh and proximity always came up to essentially adjacent well we did it right here because the Tom ker at the tiki transferred the back lot of his property or the lot that was here on a sterile Boulevard that drove through uh and comes through through the that's true we did that that's true we did that yeah but we had to get around that proximity is a this is always always been a a thorn so I'm glad to see that gone um did I you I know I I don't remember either Utility Services map amendments nothing's changed um policy 4 C11 uh Santos Road this was a particular section in the comp plan why has this been eliminated completely that's now part of the um proposed Time Square subd district downtown Times Square sub so all right thank you okay but does that did it take anything away from them I don't think I'm looking at the map I think it's it's inclusive of all the Lots along Santos all the way to the canals yes if I see it so I think the canal I remember this discussion when we did the conf it says is interested in considering so it didn't Grant anything I think by actually including it in this mixed use District um if anything they gain opportunities yep okay post disaster Redevelopment um Sarah Doug said that he had mentioned a concern to you here was it this or post- disaster build backst uh can you share with us concern was okay sorry you probably you had disc didn't you have a discussion with yeah he mentioned that it was concerned uh with um particularly in this looking at policy 1 D1 yeah and then uh item 2A fedal requirements for elevation above the 100-year flood plane and uh he was advising that currently FEMA and I believe Coler County um is at the 500 uh year flood plane so if we wanted to update that but one way that we can do sort of a catall is just to make it uh say that uh it should be consistent with the Florida building code and current FEMA requirements and just cleans that up much better okay do you see that Patrick I think we cover ab and see have to give it some thought but it says development also and and I think buildings Doug might be right on that I I don't know what they're asking for but uh when you build a roadway for example the crown of the road road is subject to in most jurisdictions 100-year flood plane so going a 500e flood plane um from even like a basic site Improvement standpoint and and development of a a road the the height of the crown of the road I think that could affect it so I would just keep that in mind or but but this is just for post disaster so this is just for the buildings so we wouldn't be talking about building so this is the the post- disaster build back policy building so I don't I don't think it affects roadways is yeah building SL development I don't know well I think Mario has a good suggestion could you tell could you tell us what you said again I'm sorry that we'd make it just consistent with the current uh Florida building codes or FEMA standards and it would catch all of it whether it's 100 or 500 yeah okay uh so the next one is Hazard mitigation uh and it stays the same with the addition of storm surges flooding sea level you've got seal level oh yeah thank you uh rise hen Coastal erosion um the pre- disaster build back policy um anything there wait a minute I will yeah I think the provision we added is to encourage you know more resilient design I I thought that we had discussed that there there was some um increase that was possible for hallways um things like that for handicap accessibility and that kind of stuff all that over the perfect footprint I mean you can't do like they did at the North End where they 10 times the building somehow but um there is a little bit of flexibility in there for that kind of stuff so we need to remove the original square footage well I think we need to I mean because we made quite a few changes to that section like to to allow with the things that we have permitted after that they certainly haven't met the original square footage yeah so I'm I'm thinking the existing lawful density and intensity and just take out up to the original square footage but then how big can they make it the original it's if we're taking it out are we taking out the original square footage yeah so we would take out the original square footage and probably intensity I mean I'm not even sure what exactly that means and I'm not sure why we need that NE necessarily called out here well okay so the pre- disaster build back is when somebody comes to you and asks for a CPD in order to redevelop so that may I mean these that ties your hands no no I I think if you ask for a CPD you're you're not utilizing the pr utilizing these Provisions no yeah the pre- disaster you did have to come back didn't you I I think pre- disaster in my mind is someone who's got a dated hotel motel and they want to redevelop it with today's standards and make it nicer than it was and they had 10 units and they're saying we're sticking to 10 units that's it and and we just want to quickly get through this process and go straight to development order and someone who wants to say I am asking for 30 units I want to make build this into a bigger Hotel they're not let buy this they can still request it I cuz they're not using those provisions the provisions just vest you and guarantee that you can rebuild it without have to go through a zoning process that's what the pre disaster does let me check because from what I recall from pre- disaster all of them went through the CPD so let me double check or the the RPD rather okay well we'll move on while Sarah's checking that um Coastal seex nothing has changed there um the national flood insurance um many things have changed there but it's just been Consolidated any questions on that well now they're going to count the cost of strengthening the building and no that's that's you see that's lined out it says not counting it and it's crossed out that's correct that means that they're going to count it um well it says means that higher it means that en encourage higher standards and strategies that will improve the town's nfip Community rating system and ensure availability of flood insurance um I I don't read by having that by having not counting means that they will count it what do you guys say it means yeah just reading the P the town modifi its current flood plan accordance with the current measures such as so this is previous Direction advis the town not to count the cost of stric the buildings as improvements that are limited to 50% of the building's value so my my at least the way I read it and you guys tell me if you agree this was trying to say how we would calculate the value of of a property and I think we're preempted at this point it's it's been made very clear as to how you calculate it yep and we also have a a a very strong Lee County property prop appraiser that has provided his opinion on this I think I think this just removes any confusing confusing language that we had and we are now going to either Federal standards or or whatever Le County yeah and then well we'll use we're just using a different methodology that's being dictated to us no matter what correct by the nfip program yeah exactly so we can't keep this no matter what correct it it'd be best not to because if there's any changes to how that's being calculated um you'd be out of compliance by with the national program if you have something different in your comp plan so when we went over the uh flood plane ordinance I recall we were explain someone explained to us what the new rules were and and I think and I I also know that the Lee County Appraiser went through that process and was very vocal as to how things would be calculated and and at least my understanding is the the new regulations are actually beneficial to most people I think we used to have more restrictive regulations but again that's on my area of expertise and and and if we are going to methodology that is more beneficial to to most people then this in my mind just the removes confusion this this isn't this isn't worth fighting okay but maybe just put it as a may maybe I staff to to look into it of just to as long as ites it's not detrimental in in people calculating their values I I do want to ask them to do that because I think that was one of the things that was important in counting the 50% value of the property because you didn't have to count the things that were strength strengthening the structure such as your hurricane shutters your doors and your um well you had to count doors and windows I'm trying to think about else okay well this let's just review this section just to make sure that we're being consistent okay how about flood proofing of commercial buildings don't need that's staying the same can we go back to the pre disaster' um so the pre- disaster does say that they have to seek permission from the Town Council to voluntarily replace the non-conforming but existing density and intensity but it doesn't say how they have to seek permission um no it doesn't say and the way it's been done in the past is an RPD process um so I are residential plan development yes yep um and you may want to have the flexibility within the pred disaster and remove some of the you know remove some of the square footage remove some of the um in maybe intensity not density but um because we really want to encourage anybody who did not lose a home to replace any non-conforming homes um and and create you know like so this if if you know they just rebuilt and were able to get in under the 50 you know we want to encourage people cuz the previous way of doing it did not encourage people to build to rebuild flood resilient homes because it did not provide enough of a carrot um so maybe removing the intensity and the square footage and giving a little bit of flexibility there to encourage people to redevelop when they have the opportunity something we might want to look at well this is less restrictive than what was there before for pre- disaster yes or no for the uh oh yeah no I'm for the National flood yeah we we were still back up on we went back we went we reverted back to um pr1 the pre- disaster build back yeah so yeah looking at the pre- disaster build back so you know maybe just removing making it less specific in the comprehensive plan we can make it more specific in the Land Development code and if we find that we need to create additional opportunity within the Land Development code we can because the comprehensive plan won't have tied our hands I think that's an excellent idea Sarah okay i' be okay with that yeah yeah I'm good with that you guys Cheney mhm okay so let's go back down to um oh let's go back to um Redevelopment and folks I I'll make this real quick and I've said it several times but so if we do you're making me feel like I never listened to you if we do limit this size of pre- disaster and post- disaster to what was existing yep again you're creating a disincentive in a pre- disaster case of someone's got an old decrepit building but they also know that if they're going to invest a ton of money they can't go any bigger on the on the on the units not much of an incentive so you're disincentivizing people from doing it in a post disaster Bill back keep in mind we may have some condo buildings that people are going to decide to sell and if it's a 19 1950s condo where the average size of a condo unit was 750 square ft what we're saying is all your units all your all you folks that own a unit you retain that right you don't lose that we're not going to take it away from it but you've only got 7 you can only sell 750 square feet and I think those people are going to be very disappointed when they in their minds think a condo an average condo unit is worth this much and I want to sell it to Mr developer for that much and developer is going to say I'm only giving you half the price cuz you're giving me half a unit yeah you know so so I think again that it it it it doesn't incentivize that quick Redevelopment so something to keep keep in mind so on this one um and and I do agree that you know I think that this should be handled within the Land Development code and made much less prescriptive within the comprehensive plan um would you feel comfortable with removing some of the requirements that are on in here regarding um square footage density square footage type of thing yeah yeah I mean and then you know because we already made changes to try to help people to be able to build back recognizing that there were issues we made it within the confines of the existing comprehensive plan but going forward looking at the Land Development code update that we now have to do if the comprehensive plan is not so prescriptive on how this has to be done it gives us a lot more flexibility on how it actually should work for people trying to re I'm okay with that me too so we need we need to look at potentially removing I'm surprised I'm okay with that because you know how much we've argued over this in the past but now seeing the reality of a post disaster build back has changed my perspective good job smugness of that comment just total SM okay uh so let you're welcome Jane I did it's my my total change of thought was just for you all right let's go on to um let's go on to I missed my spot Redevelopment so there's only one added uh section there in the proposed arts and Theater District anybody I mean that's that's just because we've added that historic historic nothing um well before yep we agreed on we change the title on the Red Coconut right yes for the center yes um specific Redevelopment plans and this is taking out some of look the Estero Island CRA plan that was 1994 95 uh santin okay so that's just all eliminated except for the gulie colony Red Coconut Village and Santini Village um I believe the intent was to consolidate the plant so if there were any new ones you know they can just fall into yes so added floor area ratios shall not exceed 1.5 that's not taking away anything is it it's consistent with the rest okay where where are we we are on page um but we're still still under specific Redevelopment plan we're under Redevelopment 24 and where's the F Port the f is at the bottom of page 31 wait where no no it's not where do I see it 24 so so the. again yep assuming that's consistent with what was there before correct okay for so so one of the things to keep in mind and I don't know I haven't F haven't looked at this comprehensively what what these Redevelopment districts say today is you can go to 15 years per acre and follow this scenario but you also have the option of proposing a different scenario correct have we eliminated the and you have the option of proposing something different have we taken that away um the only way it was allowed uh is that final paragraph there are different Redevelopment Concepts that are consistent with the comprehensive plan may be proposed for any of the areas through the plan development rezoning process y so it's it's allowed through a CPD rezoning process perfect okay this is a whole new section on Workforce density housing density so I do want to clarify because there's been a lot of talk about the uh development agreements a development agreement is not a plan development zoning no okay it's not just for clarification okay Workforce housing density um uh 30 years the standard period of time for most communities yes for most it does vary though any objection to that new policy um shall Implement sounds so yeah it's that need to be changed to be more flexible shall consider didn't we say evaluate evaluate whatever it just it's sh Implement is mandatory yes it is and it's it's such a lovely thought and it's just not going to happen I have to tell you 30 years ago we didn't think this was possible either right and and if any point in time it was then okay um let's go on to I I don't know if I don't think this negates this opportunity but but I think one of things is as I agree with most people it's unrealistic to expect it on the island um is it unrealistic to expect it right off the island I was going to say is because this could include the town's engagement off the Island I will just say that the Town Sent people to um say no to the community that was trying to do it with Marina Village they sent people that would sit all day in that meeting and then speak against and say that the town of Fort Myers Beach was not in favor of Workforce housing well let's let bygones be bygones just saying so so it's I'm not going to open they can but there are people willing to do it but I think there are opportunities off Island we should should not negate that just just like when it comes to any kind of public benefit There's an opportunity for this town to identify things that we want to see in this town and allow develop the developers coming forward to provide a payment in lie towards those identified benefits and again it would have to be a town Le program but it it it's done elsewhere where you know you you want to do drainage improvements and if Mr developer is willing to provide a contribution towards that program and towards these identified projects that we have in our Capital Improvement plan that that's a way to provide public benefit I I think we're missing an opportunity as a town to identify these things that we want and allowing there some some people may not be able to provide all that public benefit on their own land they may be willing to contri are you suggesting we qualify this saying either on island or off Island and as long as it doesn't it it leaves it open where maybe affordable housing off Island kind of makes sense but I do think we need to change the two shs in this paragraph but you know something else what Patrick is saying is true it's sort of like you know the Wetland mitigation Banks and whatnot when in the county what does the town have that let's pick any development that we can foresee coming before us or pick a small development that doesn't have the same ability as a larger scale property to provide public benefit but could in fact contribute to whatever fund for whatever amount that uh we don't have any mechanism to allow that to occur would that be a comp plan thing or would that be an LDC thing it's certainly something we should contemplate I mean we we could I mean and that could be part of this evaluation process figuring out what that looks like that should be something for sure yeah I mean I think that this gives us the impetus to look at what we can do um and then potentially create a fund create a program create yeah I mean because our infastructure well that's that's a great idea Patrick and I heard you loud and clear I'm going to remember it too and I'll just I'll just say I brought it up before also please do okay it's very very very good idea very good idea it takes time I get it but I I do think the inference in a comp plan is that it affects property on the isid yeah so if we're going to encourage it with a flexibility that could be off Island it should be address yeah on or off there's a direction to to add H off off okay okay so that was great let's go to um historic preservation uh oh yeah I ran out at page 25 you did um well this is um this is blue one page 34 M you don't have it you might have to redownload oh oh well maybe that's the case yeah okay so um H hp1 goal hp1 um anybody have anything on this don't how about uh Jim you want me to wait for you to redownload you're already there uh the blue page is the blue page is page one page one historic preservation of historic preservation because each section is each section is numbered state historic consistent with yes yeah just a a picky little one here um on page 36 of 112 or page three in blue um objective hp1 hp-1 DB maintain and increase the number of historic resources Again difficult in the past BCA would say if you're going to increase it within what time frame and how much you going to increase it and I think just rather than say increase in or whatever I don't know if we're going to in in in the next several years if we're going to be able to increase any anything on the registry [Music] yeah so how about this historic resource map who who's in charge of that I think we have the Theo Historical Society don't we somewhere and it's part of your comp plan so it would be part of the comp plan was that the LPA have a be the historic group yes and that that's that's worked very poorly yeah I I I don't believe that they have reconvened since the the storm I did ask about the the historic preservation board at some point and they were like yeah we need to do that and then do we have to have a historic preservation board or can we can we um do we have any grants that require it no I mean none that I'm aware of I don't think we've had any grants or programs we've had a we had a program of of signs locally recognizing historic properties and they received a sign and they were put on uh the town's list um I I had a hard time telling if that was was maintained Through The Years um and there were no requirements for people to maintain those houses in a historic condition so it wasn't like you had to yeah it wasn't like you had you couldn't replace with vinyl sighting or you know so there were a lot of updates made to houses to make them not necessarily historical but they were still old so um it it may be at your discretion whether you think that it makes sense for us to require a historic preservation board and maybe not have anything in the comp plan that requires you to do that could could it just say that the town may have one and at at the discretion of whatever group may we have it or we may not have it couldn't the LPA serve as the board yes that's what's happened in the past but it's it's it's been very difficult for the LPA to do that Horus critzer was the last uh design that I knew of there was some new people appointed before the storm yes and they haven't been able to meet I think there's two boards there's a historic preservation board then there's a historic preservation advisory committee no same that does we don't need to have two of those the hpac yes I now that you're saying that I remember advisory to the H really silly the HPB is LPA is the LPA so could we just direct our consultant to consolidate this section yeah consolidate and and and again not we don't want to dis inent divise any historic preservation but um make it where it's not so prescriptive that the town shall have a board when we don't have enough volunteers to be on that board of course we want to encourage historic preservation but you want us to revisit the objective the entire objective anything with which would require the town to have a board or certain minimum amount of meetings or people on that board someone overseeing the programming just kind of General language anywhere the word shall place okay let's move on to the Housing section how in the world if our how how could we possibly have a goal of Ensure adequate levels of attainable housing within Fort Meers Beach for its residents of all ages yeah that is I and sure means guarantee yeah I think it was a little uh aggressive optimistic yeah aspirational aspirational and the idea is that we want it to be a place where you know you can live your the intent you know have live your whole life here certainly changed I yeah I do believe that that was when we when we started this conversation that was definitely the direction that everybody was like yes we have to find a way to make housing for all age groups and yeah exactly so think what what do we even have there this was a hard section for me would be um uh mixed housing stock available for think encouraging A diversity of housing housing types housing stock housing yeah uring a a mix stock of housing for diverse groups of people yeah diverse housing yeah all of these need to have the shell taken out of them okay the Town shall help provide access to affordable housing the town doesn't have resources for that and for special needs and on and on we might need to but those are good things to have in that if we say we we like it and want to encourage it and the developer comes forward and says I want to do a multif family project and one of the things is I need a little more density because I'm going to provide some affordable some rentals some affordable price points um change the shell to um encourage encourage something like that throughout the whole thing so one thing to consider is that if the town wants to have any um Federal housing uh funds there are certain requirements um for for things that you have to do um I don't know that the town is is going to apply for those there was a discussion about that we are currently um we we're in the program with Lee County we had stepped out of it for a while but as far as I'm aware we are still back in that Pro we are back in that program um I don't believe that we're getting any funding but if we wanted to get funding there are certain things that we would need to sort of include well I think just changing the sh to encourage would keep the thing in here and not make it a part of every epd that we have to say where's your affordable housing ma'am chair fun this is a fun day yes Mr vaness how could I help you um I smarty I will um I've got a hard stop at 3:00 unfortunate I don't know if if uh my buddy Don will be back to he will be enough folks okay no problem no problem um what' you say we still have cormet 4 exactly okay so can we move on from the housing element or from this uh yeah um from this one is there anything yes I have to ask a question so you're um you're considering changing the town instead of shall pursue the town shall encourages the following provide AAS on it you're going to have to work on the wording a little bit just to make it flow it a little thank you that's it thank you very much okay so we'll move on then unless anybody is um seeing anything that needs some touching here let's look see what this Time Square One says promote new construction and Rehabilitation of existing structures so uh boy yeah you know Mario I think you're going to have to look at this section again too because it's gone yeah um this might this this whole Housing section just might be a real review for you here it is you can definitely take a second look One DB please okay um I'm going to move on to the next section unless somebody sees something in particular they want to um deal with it deal with there well let's let's take a look let's take a look at these new policies um so go to page 46 of 112 we're still in housing but these These are the new ones that they're proposing the new the new um objectives the end of the chap the element yep so housing affordability and attainability the town shall evaluate current programs to incentivize the construction and development of affordable housing I shall again is an issue there and um I don't know maybe just change it to may but it shall evaluate shall evaluate so you like it I mean it's not committal okay um other you're to riew no I don't like the word sh he doesn't does like sh I agree because May evaluate May evalate and consider the good thing is when previously when we put sha in a comp plan when we went through the E reviews the state was very adamant that if you're not doing it yeah take it out or put a put a a a strict timeline on it I don't think we get dinged anymore if we if we say shall evaluate we and we never have the time to get to it I don't know it doesn't well I still think it should I still think there should be some flexibility because it's not anyway I'm not me yes me the word shall I don't look at it from a standpoint of what the state either review it I look at it and how it's going to be interpreted here and then it it would be bad so these all apply um uh until these all apply to Workforce housing affordable yeah or affordable housing however you want to call it um you know I'm not saying that we shouldn't have this here I think it's it's absolutely we should I just don't I don't see it happening the the the logic that the way that this was developed it was also the same with the accessory dwelling units for the over the commercial to sort of give teeth to that that sort of development practice uh and you know what who knows somebody may come along and say you know I mean maybe the Baptist Church decides they're going to put work force housing there who knows okay all right so let's go to page um I think we should red divise the shell the shells to to be more y okay um so now let's go to page 49 of 112 which uh talks about intergovernmental coordination there there are very few changes here um correcting insure to ensure yeah um updating some dates because these are still um agencies you have relation ex exactly unless there's any new ones that we may not have been um you've got a couple more shs in here but I think they might be appropriate in this section which is continue to cooperate with Le County and Etc I think they're appropriate here um so the this is all intergovernmental stuff that I I don't see any changes and I'm not sure that there needs to be anything changed and then we go to Recreation and open space element um there is a change here um preserve and enhance view corridors to the beach and water MH are you are you having anxiety I'm thinking about how it may impact Redevelopment on the beach where perhaps it's not the parking garage underneath but we actually do want to see landscaping or something that's more attractive than a wide open parking garage that could be a view corridor when it's not a view corridor if it's cars mhm yeah what where are we exactly we're on page um 52 yes 52 I don't think we want to um I mean you can't control View Corridor because they can plant the plant they can put up a fence they can do whatever and so you know people have a right to privacy also Jane and I have disagreed on this since the beginning of time I also disagreed with Joan champ on this I think we can we I think we have the ability to say we want view corridors and as people redevelop and they recognize that that is look it's going to become more and more and more important to people because we have so much of it now I mean every time I come to the end of my street and I look out and I just see palm trees and some old Pines I think gosh I love this view how much longer will I get it but so if you moved your house to the gulf you couldn't have your f but I don't live on the gulf go ahead Patrick well my my concern is is I'm okay with encouraging it again the idea of having to preserve it especially for a uh private homeowner so so should I be lucky enough to have a house directly on the beach I would also want to like to like to retain the right to put Landscaping on my property and not be told that I can't or can't put it um any different than anybody else on on the island but is there anything wrong with this preserve and enhance view corridors Beach and water SAR here's my question everyone always says Landscaping fences but I think what we're talking about is buildings I think that is the thing that I mean if you drive down Bonita Beach Road beautiful landscaping yeah very Nice Landscaping and house after house after house and you don't see the beach so I don't think I mean although what we we then do we make it we're not going to reduce the required setback side setbacks that's something completely different than if it's the buildings but we're not talking about setbacks we're talking about the comprehensive plan what do we want like when we say preserve and enhance view corridors like we can also say that Landscaping enhances the view corridors so I mean I I think that we don't want to be restrictive like if if there's some component this makes this too restrictive but what does the town want historically since I've been here everybody has always said they wanted views I I think we can say that we the town where there's a like a a beach access shall preserve the vew corridor that exists today we don't want to block off any existing beach access View Corridor and I think we can say that the town will encourage any new development to include enhanced view corridors as part of their development but just to say preserve and enhance that becomes an interpretation of you know I buy a beach front lot and I propose to meet my setbacks and nothing more someone saying you're not enhancing them we're not going to allow this so what would this is what I'm saying what would we like it to say if if we do we not want view corridors do we want view corridors I recognize that this is a little too squishy MH what should it say instead I I personally I think it should say that the town when when there's an existing View Corridor that's Town owned property or a rideway or beach access we shall maintain it what about from the top of the bridge Patrick what about that view quarter I'll have to disagree with you I it's it's never been important to me me like it is for other people oh it is for me it for it may not be important to you but do you think it's important to the majority of people who live here I don't know all for heaven's sakes I don't know really we sing a song when we see the water people who visit and people who visit people who live in Lehigh Acres I have a friend who works on the island lives in Lehigh Acres and when she comes to the island she said the hour and a half it takes her to get to the top of the bridge is worth it for that view that one but it's relative in that unless you put a building right in front of me that is going to be higher than the bridge there may be it it's not going to be blocked all it will is is if is if if if I were to had one story to Time Square two stories to Time Square the little piece of blue that I see just you just see a little further and and that becomes so relative that to me I I wouldn't hinge our development policies on on something so nebulous but personally that's my opinion but but but the also we have to understand that the right to a you has been legislated MH and at least my understanding of the law when I took my land use law courses is you know average person can go to the Beachside and have plenty of you from the beach side we can we don't have to mandate that some someone not build their property a certain way because we want to preserve those views that has been legislated and there is case law on it can be um a private cause of action between the two adjacent property M but look this is the comprehensive plan and shouldn't we be aspirational saying that we want what like Sarah said what do you want well I'll tell you I want to preserve as much View and and space as as possible for the general public I'm not saying that you buy you know you sell your very nice house now and you go and buy uh the lot in front of my house am I going to complain when you build absolutely but no I'm not but but do you have rights to the privacy of your property bich and I got into this all the time about because he lives right there on the Connecticut Street access like you know so I I agree that there is that property but in the plan shouldn't we say that this is what we aspire to yeah for sure like I said anything that we currently have that we should maintain it that we should encourage that we currently have right now no that we currently own as a town so if we own that property and we or we have a rideway or we have a a a beach access or easement yes we should do everything we can to to maintain that that's that's perfectly all right and we should encourage the town to buy more property that's in that's in our plan somewhere again if you want it buy it can can I raise something else so I know that we have in our code restrictions on the heights of Hedges and things like that right because one of the things that when I'm reading this in my mind Pops visiting Palm Beach and just seeing a wall of green which also is doesn't you wouldn't even know you were right 100 feet from water I mean you wouldn't know and to me I don't believe that that's the feeling and culture of for fire speech I'm with you John me too oh where do you fall Jim I'm with Patrick son of a gun but the thing is I know where Jane is but but but I completely agree that the town should do everything it can to to town should do everything it can to have more Parks more green space Town should do everything they can to provide more beach access and and better views but again what does that mean I'm not going to pose it on a private property owner I'm going to say folks if that if it's that important to us as a town let's assess ourselves and let's go buy the land otherwise it's a lot of talk Patrick it's 305 I gotta go what what what what about as as a way to ask for things when somebody comes forward asking for more if somebody comes for forward with the CPD if we have on our comprehensive plan we want to do this this is something we care about that's yeah but you know we need to say that that's something we want if we don't state it anywhere then it doesn't exist there you go how do we ask for if we don't say we want it so what about that yeah I completely agree if if you want it if you want it you say this is a desired public benefit and of course when people come forward and you say what are you providing as public benefit there perfect we have it on our list and that's another thing I've been advocating since the storm is come up with a list of public benefits you want I think everybody 30 it's 306 Patrick it's great that we're coming back to it I I think everybody's in agreement it's the Lang it's the language it's the language it is the language we should be able to get through the other 50 pages 15 minutes Sarah you get what we're saying here Patrick's going to leave so it's going to be much more pleasant and good do you do you see where we're coming from yeah so can we re can you rework this yes so so talking about preserving and enhancing the publicly owned view corridors and encouraging a desire to encourage yeah encouraging additional preservation on private property when possible something like that thank you like that okay can we move on to the next section does anybody have something here Don it's nice to have you back thank you maintaining quum m one out one in um we're going to have one more out at 3:30 is that you honey okay all right um you know I'm just wondering what kind of house I'm going to go back to the border call he's been alone now for um okay so um transportation yes Marine research wait let's just go here Mar P are we on well 3 of 112 and now 54 of 112 I'm I'm moving through this and here we go public land acquisition to meet sustainability priorities land I like that policy no um Echo Heritage task force establish a task force on Echo Heritage tourism to develop and implement the town's Echo Heritage program the task force would work closely with Marine Resources to oh I don't know about this where are you I'm on page I am on Page 54 this is this is existing we've never had an echo Heritage task force um maybe there's a reason to leave it in here I I don't know should we just leave should we leave it if there's no reason okay we we'll leave it CU there's no place to take it out um okay this is new Florida friendly and native plants uh use Florida friendly and native plants in all parks and Open Spaces to the greatest extent possible I like this policy does anybody else yes okay I think it would be nice back to having a tree uming thing because we sold a lot of trees and it put a lot of the Native back on the island and a lot of people need trees yeah um we should go into tell the council that uh let's see here we go what's the next coordinating funding system I have it on my list okay I'm I'm here's a new objective monitoring the following measures will be used to monitor the achievement of objectives and Recreation and open space element the amount of funds extended for and number of capital projects improving on-site access for automobiles bicycles pedestrians and mass transit to the town's Recreation and open space facilities between 2022 and 2029 was this something that was required to put in here because this is all new yeah it seems a little I know that we have to have in there that you know you have to be complying with the losos standards but these are a little bit more than what I've normally seen in other codes um but it it's new that that to me tells me it's been suggested by you guys yeah yeah okay it's a monitor right monitoring the amount of funds but you're saying it can be condensed yeah in other places I've seen it condensed where it's not so prescriptive as to what those um metrics are going to be used to to measure usually I just see like an level of service standard and and so so would you all agree that this should be cond condensed yes yes yes yeah an achievement of L standards is one of them one of the line items there yeah yeah thank you Mario no problem is is is there or we might have included this I I don't I don't know sure if this was uh done by Ed but uh was there any interest in in expanding sort of like the Ada accessibility to your parks and because then we can provide that directive in this as part of the monitoring that if you're increasing your your accessibility [Music] and thoughts well we should have Ada accessibility to our Park have to yeah we're we're mandated yeah we'll look at some that that are do owner and those that are just can be okay easily up so now we're on to the transportation element um to improve Mobility without reducing the permeability um I brought this up hundred years ago but why can't we think about doing something with a monreal either down the middle of a sterile Boulevard exiting off to big hotels publ you know things like that we've we've looked at um we would actually require more uh if you're talking sort of like a bus Rapid Transit which would have their own lane or something like that she's talking about the the mon rail Disney Light Rail Light Rail would cost no no just you know the the open cage kind of ski resort Montreal that would become like a tourist destination we wouldn't have anybody walking on the street they'd be going for like a chair you mean like a chair like a ski lift ski lift well Disney has a little cars now they're Clos in we want we want it to be as invisible as possible so we want it to be as open concept as possible okay can we just put it over I mean it's it's interesting I have nothing against it I don't know if anybody's ever looked at that specific I remember having this brought up we don't when I a million times at uh the chair at the cham or vice chair at the chamber and we remember the guy that wanted montal to come directly from the airport to the island that would be great too but I'm telling you the thing is we've already had somebody proposed that they would attach it to their parking garage just over the uh over on the island and then it could just go bing bing bing and just go back and forth people wouldn't even get in their cars because it's almost a Non-Stop because it would be a ride it would be a ride it would be a s take pictures it would be beautiful I think we should apply for a grant I do too Sarah get on that oh yeah in my spare time you know who you should put on that is Jim aderholt okay yeah I would call him immediately on that okay um I put it over the B so is there anything yeah over absolutely uh anything else here that in the traffic element that you all see um speeding would be nice widening under no circumstances shall conventional four laning of a stero Boulevard be considered how about that improvements to the boulevard so look at this at policy uh the new policy B3 uh the town of Fort Meers Beach shall initiate additional pedestrian and streetcape excuse me improvements along stero Boulevard beginning in 1999 and shall negotiate with Lee County for the turnover of responsibility for its maintenance if necessary to carry out these improvements or to further other Town policies you know this I'm not sure about this policy here so this is from 1999 the boulevard has been improved and um I don't know that this is something to bring up to the council I don't know that the Town Council wishes for to discuss the turnover responsibility for the boulevard there's a big cost associated with so this this this should be highlighted Mario that's a biggie for the Town Council that's a policy for them down to the reduced the need for a car I've also talked Non-Stop about the hotels need to come together with a program of being able to pick up at the airport and be brought out and dropped off and picked up to go to the airport and that would eliminate people bringing cars and then they could have bicycles and and um golf carts to provide those who can't bicycle and uh to get around that would be good what is promote compact development what does that mean um mix use you have all these everything is closer together um Mr vice mayor Jane has got a brand new project for you she'll be calling you you're G to love it yeah anything Jane tells me i' love I'm gonna write that down Jim um okay so um I would I would like to mention something about compact development okay so one thing that we I just never read something like that before so so when when you go through a downtown and all of the it's buildings and you know and it's on street parking and you feel like you can walk through the spaces and then you go to more Suburban areas it's the parking lots the parking lots create the Suburban feeling you can't get from that building to that building without hiking half a mile so it's you know we we want to encourage people to park their car but where do we want those parking lots just just something to think about like that creates really spread out sprawling development when we and you do need a place to park a car but how do we want to do that and thinking about that going forward compact development yes um okay so um off Island parking work with Lee County to secure off Island parking um I hope that that is happening um um improve trolley service that has been improved with the pull-offs due to the boulevard um um d57 hidden path d57 I would like to understand how you can get a path running on the Bayside parallel to a sterile Boulevard through people's yards well there there bu there are some opportunities I'm just going to say that I think there's even part of well I'm not going to say anything there there are opportunities Jane I don't want and we've had this we've had this in there from day one I can understand through the M house and how about how about through Co Red Coconut you good well they stop on either side if they're willing to allow that that's the idea so this this hidden path policy um is definitely aspirational but may be possible it was very aspirational we were primarily looking at the center of the island the residential seem like very blocked off from the rest and way so people can walk or ride their bicycle and they don't have to go onto a ster there's like paths for residents to travel y should we should we address the lead Tran the trolley and Lee Tran are separate they're different you how much jurisdiction do you have over does unless we pay for it but the Le Tran at least the let's go fort Meers Beach group um on the transportation side would like and has recommended that it be extended south from the library to Santini so that's the trolley not the Le Train no the Le Train trol already goes there probably goes all the way down the Lover's Key okay I'm I guess I'm misnaming them the the Disney disy land type of little thing that's Le TR yeah they wanted that further yeah that's like the open take you to the parking lot okay I think we can look in the intergovernmental and sort of and that's why they can't extend it until 25 because the contract that the county has let only has a prescribed route now but something to something to maybe include there in some way we can I was think intergovernmental to maybe like encourage discussions to B transportation I would not like to see the one under traffic calming be put in with speed bumps and narrowing of lanes and yeah Landscaping diverters because people have enough time hard time going straight on the road as it is dodging bikes and everything else I mean if we take anything more away it's just too dangerous so would you prefer getting rid of these kind of prescriptive one and two and just leaving it open-ended to allow you to explore opportunities well I think one is is just adding more congest that's going to be more frustrating than calming because we already are looking for the bikes and the buses and and the pedestrians to add you know nature in the middle of the road will just be a you know or or speed bombs or or swivel roads or whatever I think that's not a good idea but maybe in school zones or method is passive is maybe some some of the back street that become a thorough far to avoid traffic on Aero we had talked about doing like um in Las Vegas where they put the spike thing down the middle of the street with Bogen Vila so that people would have to go up and over with the overpass she's not she's not lying they the walls no they they have the walls in Las veg yeah they put Jersey walls up yeah that's what I mean so I mean we talked about that but you know we have too many streets that cross it unless we made you know the off ramp the so what so what do we think about that section that make it less prescriptive like Mario is suggesting oh yeah or where it's appropriate in front of a school or a known high speed problem area right we don't have a problem of people racing down a sterile for the most they can't because they can't but even but in places where you really do want traffic to be 20 M hour is as opposed to 35 then it may be appropriate we can do the first one the first is active and then we can say were appropriate and then the second the preferred method is passive traffic call me yeah we can just keep them there all right let's see okay I'm just scrolling down you all um the shared parking that I think we need to be careful with because I'm seeing a lot of conflict with the shared parking down by snug the condominium snug What conflict are you seeing that there's just not enough well sure and and the the I think it is also partly the attendance direct who can park in there as opposed to you know that it's all shared parking I think some get priority some businesses get priority well I don't know they used to I know that before the storm maybe they have specific um arrangements with them or something know okay um Canen go ahead sir so I think that something that it it makes a lot of sense here I mean we're talking about the parking situation um in Times Square and then talking about coming up with an alternative plan that may include parking garages you know I mean we need to look at what the options are consider public private Partnerships to do something different because we know that this isn't working it didn't work before the storm it's probably not going to work after the storm um so kind of leaving it open as we recognize this is an issue let's pay some attention to it since we've talked about it for at least seven years that I've been here maybe not seven years it's been talked about since the beginning of time yeah there it has and and and at the beginning of time people saying some saying parking garage was like you may have said you're going to kill your mother it was it was just so rebelled against and now not so much I I wonder if public exactly I wonder if in some of these it makes sense to take out some of the dates we do have likeability is is that these numbers are these values still that we want to keep like 165 on street are very prescriptive yeah I don't I don't know that that makes any sense because I don't know I don't have any idea what it is at this point um which one Mario which one were you talking out u under shared parking Your Time Square um might just passed that shade shared parking parking near Time Square time at the bottom of 165 on street parking spaces bottom of 60 shared parking near Time Square the Estero Island CR recommended a w Reservoir oh Lord this is ancient history yeah um although some of these spaces were merely yeah I I um I'm afraid that whole policy could go in 19989 and proceed toward implementation or create an alternative plan that may include a parking garage how about how maybe you can solid you take out all the old C references and maybe there should be something about a statement about how important shared parking is and or a plan for a parking garage near Time Square I don't know yeah I really hate that I do too but I I I keep thinking the only way is to bring Time Square up right build a boardwalk make it make it level with a lord I know I know okay um uming I'm trying to solve your problem than uh you've taken out the adequacy of the skybridge as a policy um here's an objective I've always loved experiment widely that would be our monil that's a pretty expensive experiment widely that doesn't work either no we've had a water taxi forever pedestrian overpasses still there San Carlos Boulevard okay I'm I'm moving how about delivery vehicles uh you've added Redevelopment PL shall require a loading plan with preference to off- Street loading no on Street loading permitted on Estero Boulevard I think this is a good plan well it is a good plan but where the heck are they going to be and who enforces and and are they going to be up on the on the sidewalk or what you know you can't get those semise Sarah will you say something to slow her down okay so so I I can't speak to where they might do their loading um off of a sterile Boulevard but it's very common for communities to require loading spaces for certain developments um you know like a public needs a loading space a 7-Eleven might say we only get this size truck and we're only going to have this size truck you know different different stores have different agreements but that has to be part of their thought process and that's not required here on the island well I've seen restaurant supply trucks that are large 18 wheelers that are in the middle of of the lane right exactly yeah block away or whever yeah I don't know who enforces that Roger would have um so we we do we put this here I mean I think that this is important yeah it's a it's a problem you every day you drive by there's landscape trucks parked up on the curb on the sidewalk in the middle uh Lane and this is only just talking about Redevelopment plans so this is only going this is going to be relative to new things coming forward to us I think we leave it Don so they have to have a a they have to have a trolley Lane and a semi Lane they have to have a plan okay have to a a property that's being redeveloped has to have a place where they can accept deliveries yeah y office there right y pull in off the street and figure out a turning radius let's go let's go on before we lose Jim um you know here this this last policy the TR traffic impact analysis I don't know I don't know why we require traffic impact analysis because it's an expense to the developer it's an expense to anybody who does it and I'll just tell you when I see all you have to just get to the page where it says constrained Road and then it's a pass I I don't know why we require this right what do you think Sarah I'm not a transportation engineer so I have a hard time with Transportation that's why I rely on those engineers and reviewers that specialize in it I don't fully understand it I know that it is important but I don't know how important it is in a community where right I me when I'm driving when I'm driving if I drive south at the end of the day I pass traffic past public of course I mean it's just stop exactly exactly if you were developing a mall out by I75 I get why it's important but here I I don't understand the purpose of it well because there's no mitigation there's no alterre exactly there's no there's no way to mitigate the problem what do you think Mario but what what were you going to say I'm going to say I'm curious let's look at Red Coconut when it comes in for redevelopment the offsite impact for a larger development could require a signal could require turn Lanes could require deceleration Lanes so without the study how do you know what that is now if C Gypsy gets redeveloped it's a waste of money right but maybe there's a trigger when a size of the development comes in that the impact needs to be studied well if we didn't if we didn't consider it with big RVs trying to get in and out of that small entrance into Red Coconut I don't think any if if we can improve it now exactly actually says excuse me it actually says currently required only for major rezonings and very large develop so on what very large is what's very large and what's major so that come then is up to your discretion okay we'll leave it right now it's very clear there are some and there are others that are just not um I I would say that there could be some that are sort of on the cusp all right we need to look at the protecting Public Access again because it says the town shall not vacate again uh objective t-17 DJ that that looks duplicated from above it does it's the exact same morning you got to go yeah by Jim I'm ways are we still okay with just four yes yeah okay four is for all right then let's keep going uh we'll try to get through the rest of this utilities element so there are some dat there are date changes here relative to portable water um there is [Music] more sanitary sewer this is all having to do with Le County and real quick question oh yes sorry um we were looking at the rights of way policies yes um Jane had mentioned uh removing the one about the the town shall strictly limit vacations of right of way and easements to preserve future access for these purposes um this is different well I I'm just not sure because it says it it discussed underground utilities which the other one didn't yeah and it says shall strictly limit vacation so it's just looking at it carefully in my opinion but I okay I don't I just wanted to get opinion before I all right thank you okay I am uh I have moved all the way to page 65 uh because I have a question about concurrency and you know uh Sarah and Mario too this is a question that comes up when we're looking at developments especially some of these new big developments and I'll just say Moss Marine what page oh the policy is uh U1 B2 you want eight 8 B2 sorry uh and uh and talking about this is talking about solid waste and water service and whatnot and and determining the levels of service for concurrency for these developments and does that that it comes at the time of a development order or permits not during the actual um contemplation of the CPD so you have to make sure that there's going to be enough like you have so you've reviewed that before the project comes to us or to the town counil you're only technically required to at that point but if you don't do it before then so if you want if somebody wanted to a comp plan Amendment you have to know that you have enough water sewer to to go into whatever they're going to put there so people ask me that and I I never knew the answer to that so yeah I mean it says that technically but if we don't do it before that we could make a big mistake okay um so I'm moving on to the next page and they have uh eliminated aiming for a 10% per capita reduction of water use by 2005 obviously I don't think that we ever did that um sorry going back to the utilities do we need a mobile home I'm sorry do we need mobile home anymore oh good point do we need mobile home it looks like we've added it there for mobile home I I when speaking with uh the county just uh what their concurrency standards were uh they included mobile home so if we don't want to include that for they just provided that information so I included it here I I if we not if we're not having mobile homes or RVs I wouldn't wouldn't have it well he said that he didn't take mobile homes out so if they were elevated it still be on an elevated structure right yeah it doesn't matter like I mean we're going to have lots of modular structures on this island we already are getting those that's different than a mobile quote unquote mobile home who that huh I would I don't I would remove it I mean after multif family remove mobile home park unit yeah and I I was looking at it for the sanitary sewer service but it's really for I think it's probably on the portable water as well yep and then isn't the isn't the gallons per day isn't that the Lee County is that Lee County or is that the okay got um anybody see anything else on the uh on the utility section Don anything I mean there's there's some things I'd like to see I don't know that we have the ability because I think we we get bulk service from um from Lee County but when I think about water conservation reuse you know distribution or reuse like purple pipe that's my business so iip purple pipe is distribution of of uh treated Wastewater for irrigation I would love if we had that but I don't know if we have the ability to have it probably not because we'd have to actually we'd have to we'd have to bring it back from the Lee County Wastewater treatment I I had thought about trying to encourage uh some reuse and in some of the bigger projects coming up and realized that it wouldn't really be feasible here because of the setup with us being far away from right the system okay what else would you like to see that's it I think purple pipe yeah okay doing something every day um I mean I'd like to see sewer heat recovery and lots of things but again we don't control the sewer so you can do lots of heating and cooling uh with the it would it would make the town a completely different place with sewer heat you take raw sewage and and you turn it in you take the thermal energy and turn it into you can heat in cool buildings with it does smell yeah no it doesn't smell that is very interesting mhm our company's doing it in uh Bellingham Washington right now what about a cool Town something that is aspirational and makes a comment about renewable energy sources and yeah like a we're doing Town Hall maybe it makes sense to do solar panels right maybe it makes sense to do lead buildings it makes sense to do yeah I I wonder if there's any when you get to the development uh plans if there's anything to do with uh either maybe not lead certified or maybe it is lead certified but um certainly solar arrays and things like that we have a lot of water here so I mean I think that there's a lot of opportunity to add um Concepts that we would like to implement especially as a town um and I think that there are a lot of things that we could encourage um you just sort of run into an issue where you can't actually require any much of anything um but you know having the opportunity to say you know if if you give us this it's more valuable um several communities that I've worked in before um gave more advantage to uh commercial development that was doing lead uh development and you know having low like doing energy star and providing houses that had um had better um insulation and yeah water saving hotels that have practices to conserve water resources and other things too right yeah exactly so I mean and that would be a benefit to the island in the long run to have those types of businesses here so having something in here about encouraging those types of uh improvements would would be beneficial to the town in the long run would it be better to have it as a policy under the um Capital Improvement uh element I don't know if it's the town potentially but if we're we're recommending it for everybody yeah if we're recommending it for everybody it wouldn't be Capital Improvement it would maybe be be utility yeah it's water and power really yeah yeah well I agree we should have something like that seems like just an aspirational like ESG policy makes a lot of sense what's an ESG policy like environmental um sustainability goals um we're in Don's area okay okay does that uh for their B pass for their building perm allocation system for housing anden does Key West Key West does yeah and so they um to get a to qualify to get a unit from their allocation system you know you have to have elevated floors green buildings uh enhanced open space areas more than what the code requires so um yeah if you do it aspirationally you know there's definitely I like that I like that so maybe maybe that's you know what you should uh um simulate here okay and that's also something that smaller developments can give so like you know like when we're looking at what what opt well we can't donate land but you can make an energy um a more energy efficient building having a rain barrel to water your your garden landscape yeah l i mean get rid of St Augustine yes that's a that's a great one right there I mean put in put in different yeah drought tolerant plants and and I think that's where we were going with that like ordinance for for the native and and for landscaping so that it's not so U okay let's move on to the capital Improvement element does anybody have anything there I I had nothing here um I think it's mostly cuz I don't know what Capital Improvements uh are even on the town's Horizon other than acquiring or building town hall I just don't I just don't know well we need to update the fiveyear plan we these updates fiveyear plan you should have a list yep so that's this is this is maybe this is better for the council to really review and um for sure add their fiveyear plan this is one of those that you update most there a bunch of school stuff in here and concurrency are we are we stopping at four o' is that what I heard um we were going to try and get through this um we've got okay let's let's move on to the coastal element plan uh or element Coastal management uh there's literally one change uh CH adding the coastal High Hazard area map um saying that remov trees shall be replaced with a Florida native tree have that language there for public buildings yeah lead accreditation and that we need an emergency plan she'll be reviewed and updated every 5 years is there an emergency plan just asking that's a recurring qu there is Amy we have an emergency plan okay that's great news is it on our website yes okay thank you sorry um Beach and dunes migratory bird Ming nothing changed fish kills resulting from red tide and other harmful algal blooms have a negative impact on the town Shoreline the town shall manage removal and remediate impacted Shoreline for the continued enjoyment of residents and visitors the town shall collaborate with local state and federal agencies coalitions and nonprofit organizations uh to support policies programs that address the impacts of harmful aggle blooms that impact the town Shoreline now look Jim's not here we could leave all those shs in if we want we want people to take the dead fish off the absolutely absolutely yes so that was a change then um uh down just a bit way finding shall be encouraged to be provided at Key station locations in town to identify and promote use of beach access points um which the town has bless you uh don [Music] um Harbor planning uh I see nothing else there anybody I'm good is this still something that the town is pursuing initiated Cooperative planning process we have it by 199 wait tell show me show what sorry last objective for Harbor planning uhhuh so it's dat certain with 1998 do we want to still pursue this and remove the date or yeah what about yeah I mean all everything that's going to be happening into yes yep yep um so now we're into the community design element um so there is there are changes here um so under growth and development well I don't need to read this you all can read it um unless you all think I need to read it for anybody that might still be watching it's in the packet yeah I um I liked I liked the rewriting of some of these yeah I did too I really did it just made it more concise um and that's essentially what it did was consolidate everything do we want to update the coconut Village mix use District too yes and I also noticed we we're not calling it the public no no we're not everybody would recognize they would they would so here you've got um boy wouldn't it be nice if we could have undergrounded utilities would have been nice when we had the roads all torn out [Music] yeahh okay I'm I'm moving down I'm moving on to page 84 I'm at8 which is you're at 87 oh good is is that number three page three or page uh it is page four it's blue page four you want me to go back to page three uh I just one thing about we do call out um under CD one- c-1 each of the mixed us provide additional bonus height for developments to provide a Workforce housing component do we want to be required to do that does it say required it says it for for Workforce housing shall provide additional bonus height so I think we take out sh again and put me okay Jim so happy with you for that one okay thank you John yeah we also have a shall above in transition zones and once again I'm not sure if that's appropriate there new development on properties of budding single family homes and one and twostory multif family homes shall provide a building profile that matches the height of the abing property for a depth of 50t feet to create a transition in height boy that's very interesting it's very perspective is that's the what we were trying to prescribe for those Chang between the new mixu series and the residential in the back Sarah what do you think of this one 50 ft I mean I think that's one way to ensure that it does happen because this is the big scare this is big scary scary you're absolutely right like if if we don't have this transition zone like oh they a big building next next to houses so I mean I I think that maybe it needs to be prescriptive um but also we can cover it in Land Development code if if we feel it's too prescriptive well it also says that it needs to match the height and when I think of a transition zone I'm thinking like a 10% increment or a 20% increment might even better okay as a my personal opinion yeah so I I agree it needs to be there I'm not sure it needs to be quite so rigid that's all okay Don you have any anything on that okay so we leave it um Jane you said you're already at page 87 so I'm going to keep going here Street frontages and parking lots um parking lots shall not be permitted as a primary use on a sterile Boulevard we have primary use uh uh parking lots I had this one highlighted I we new parking lot it's new I don't even know about new I think that that's no they're old I don't know but we have them are some that are parking lots that are in transition that could become something else but their use right now is parking lots because if you make it a permanent parking lot you have to pave it as opposed to just rock it right so we do have some that could become permanent and would be new permanent so well there's there's two weird things here that and then and then parking lot frontages shall be limited in size to 1/4th the lot width on a stero Boulevard that's the well which which is also sort of in contrast with the the section of the code talking about Transportation which encourages giant parking lots so this needs to go 1/4 is ridiculous well but it does create more walkable design it does it does design the use isn't first of all nobody's going to put a parking lot with only using 1/4 of the property no that's not what it says it's the entrance it's a visible right yes visible entrance and it also means that you're going to push your building up to it maybe you just have an entrance to your parking lot you have your parking behind it you have you know your build Street walkable right yeah okay sort of create more fabric I mean we can probably make it less prescriptive and I I think that we need to remove the I don't think we should encourage parking as a use on a sterile Boulevard um it's certainly not the highest and best use or beneficial to the community but it's needed maybe we say that that we don't encourage it yeah but I as a primary use but it certainly is needed at least for the time yeah we either need it or we need an alternative that's on St Carlos Island y with a free taxi and people park right in front of a building to access so forget that they won't use it I don't know I mean people would use it if it was a ride yeah or I want you to make sure as you go through this that like I'm just noticing it here and I noticed it a couple other places Meyers is just m y RS um like here in policy cd1 G1 you've got Myers me y RS for Myers yeah okay um okay so um and what yes for f o r t um okay I just moved to the bottom of page 88 oh here we are with the entry gateways y create a stero Boulevard gateways or entry features this this is going to be uh handled by the county and fdot um streetcape commercial streetcape I love all of these things I I don't know how much control we have over it Landscaping you guys yeah but we like K right yes yeah we have control over it in setbacks right weow true and and um so we leave it the the entry Gateway yeah I don't see but you know what the town's going to participate in that so maybe we leave that yeah all right let's go on um landscape features identify potential me commercial streetcape offering 12T wide sidewalks I don't think that's going to happen then you up two okay ensuring sidewalks are 6 ft wide in residential and up to 12 oh up to okay all right Sarah do we have a residential streetscape in landscape plan in the LDC I don't remember we do not we have talked about sidewalks we have talked about Street trees and most of the neighborhoods are not in favor of having anything done I mean that's that's what we ran into when when we've sort of recommended side was was that pre Ian that was pre so so wouldn't it be nice to have palm trees all the way up down the didn't you just say something about native plants palm trees are native plants or shade trees there are lots of lovely shade trees shade trees so that they drop on their own and we don't have to well let's make them shade trees let's have palm trees okay so do both we could come up we could hire a landscape architect who could design it m yeah the town would appreciate that's a great idea probably find a landscape architect who would volunteer their services in The Rebirth of Fort Meers Beach okay so we can move on move on um a lot of this is repetitious from other sections most of it is in fact conservation element um so they've strick it's stricken out a stricken the original and now it says maintain and improve the town of Fort Meyers beaches uh Coastal Resources with ongoing commitment through regulations education land acquisition I like that that's still in there and preservation evaluation programs and for cooperation with the federal and County governments and related agencies yeah okay 93 oh yeah you said you wanted to get through this we're going to um I think that's very nice I'm on page 97 well you're way ahead I know you know to me the conservation element is very important it's very important so Mario I'm just going to tell you when you reread this or whatever if there's anything that you feel loosens that we're it kind of lets up doesn't enforce or strengthen the goal of conservation um I do for the most part this was language already existing in your C that was I see yes yes I see that so uh purchase 16,000 acres for a stero Bay preserve actively encourag the purchase of the full 16,000 Mainland Acres adjoining Nero Bay to become an expanded aerob Bay State buffer preserve I have to tell you I don't remember this uh and it's original and I don't think we have ever talked about this maybe early on Marine resource taxk Force might have because they were very um Estero Bay oriented um I don't remember this but is is that is that property even available is it I I have no idea is this a policy we leave in that whole Mainland area is got to be Wetlands it's well I mean part of it is where salt Leaf is being developed part of it is where they're changing the docks and and piing some of the um where the shrimp shrimp are right I don't know that it's under our control at all oh yeah I would highlight that and that's a policy decision for the to council I think to leave in or not what do you all think to agree I'm fine with that well it says a sterile base State buffer Reserve so it' be a state purchase right yeah and as the state's looking to you know I don't know that that will happen do the friends of matan's past preserve still exist anybody know they were a very active group that was Tom Meyer's group okay I am moving on to um there's policy 1 C-4 dredging title canals that's my my next one was on n on page 97 yep it says that we prohibit it of additional title canals is prohibited title canals well they're all title canals AR they and and there will need to be dredging with some houses back there at some point sooner or later so I think we need Sarah I I think I mean this says dredging of additional title canals so it's not saying oh we can't make new canals yeah you can maintain your canals you're not supposed to make new Canal okay never mind word okay no permits for septic tanks thank goodness um I I don't have I didn't have anything highlighted in this section that anybody else no no okay all right so so let's go on to didn't have anything there and wow this is may be it huh I'm just going on going on that's it that's it we've been we've gone through it all does anybody have anything that they want to back up to or that we gloss over that you want more detail on was Dune walkover structures always in the policy yes okay at least that I remember Sarah do yeah yeah Mario is there anything that you need for us to further clarify for you no I think uh I think I've captured everything um do you want to double check with you and then check check they send it to you so my thought is if you guys are comfortable with it um Nancy would this be a recommendation to council with a vote okay so there's going to be multiple changes to the final document um and it they would yes it would be a recommendation um however we're going to need time to go through each line um the SP sp250 issue is a concern okay um and then yes it would go to council so we should have a vote to recommend this uh be forwarded to the council uh upon your review yes well we're going to review it anyway to be honest you don't need it to come back to us no okay no um so would somebody want to make that motion I'll motion for the comprehensive plan review that was presented today be forwarded to the Town Council after the three of you go over the corrections that we have requested with our comments and Corrections yes comments and Corrections second okay okay any discussion on that motion all those in favor I thank you uh may I motion to adjourn please wait wait wait I had something to bring up hold on one second