where the uh the old softball field used to be so uh if you're not here you know where to go now if you please rise for the invocation followed by uh Town ATT Town manager who will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance accept our thanks for this day with all its blessings and opportunities thank you for every seat that has been filled here today for each mind and heart that fills the presence of this room as well as those lives of those we will encounter afterward we meet today asking for guidance wisdom and support to engage in meaningful discussion for our leaders as they render service to our fellow citizens and Community ready us to make every moment count amen amen I PL aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all you good got it John got good next we have approval of the final agenda is there a motion to approve the final agenda I'd like to pull C D and G from the consent agenda you said CD and E g g g i don't I don't have a g it's probably the resolution about the Tetra I think oh so you're you're you want you want to pull from from the consent agenda I don't see a g on the consent agenda as Edward a resolution for the tetr tech 68,000 water utilities Marina station in her mine says G oh it's e mine says G you talking about for the booster Pump Station yeah yeah that I have E I have e on this too but we here's what happened these went here right okay I have e as a million dooll rescue plan you're looking online because I fixed it online you fixed it online okay got it does everybody understand what's being pulled I don't have so we're going to pull the uh 2451 million doll arpa funds to match the uh fde Grant that's CD is resolution 2452 Town Hall internet ratification and e or G depending on if you're looking online resolution 24-55 got it everyone got it and there was a change if you have the paper version the um administrative agenda items B and C the verer settlement agreement and the resolution 2454 fer budget VOR budget amendment have been moved to the consent agenda and that's those are the the verer is the what I wanted pulled and then the Wastewater the tetr the verer so not the arpa funds and not the right okay because my online agenda has it is C and D okay Mr Mayor yes I would move approval of the final agenda amended second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none motion carries unanimously next we have public comment Madam clerk first up I have Rebecca link good morning welcome to your new digs it's beautiful feels good so I'm Rebecca link I'm a resident of Williams Drive and the reason I'm here today is to put on the record my support for John mle for the open position on the LPA taking spot I wrote a letter uh to most people in this room and some others on the LPA I'm not going to read the whole letter but I would like to just point out the bullet points that I think make John an excellent candidate so uh what I put in my letter was I have worked with John on many volunteer projects here on the beach since the hurricane and I have witnessed him listening to all sides of an issue before he makes his decision he has the ability to take in a large amount of information and think it through I also have witnessed him think strategically he's also an owner of two properties on Fort Meers Beach so he knows what we're all going through he doesn't rent he owns he has the ability to set personal opinions aside where they're appropriate and in order to make the best decision for our town and he cares tremendously not just about us building back fast but the future of the island those things that we can't take back once we decide so with that in mind I would just like to make my recommendation for John McLean for that LPA seat right thank you thank you sorry then I have Christy thoron hi good morning I'm a nework u resident of Lee County I have a home in the yacht club in cap just need to identify yourself Christy forry I'm Christy Thorton this is my husband Matt Thorton we own Island Seekers LLC which is based out of Pensacola Florida we're new down here a couple years uh we have a ranch in the yacht club I mean a ranch in Northport Meers and a house in the yacht club and we spend a lot of time down here I work at the hospital I'm a supervisor for respiratory therapy so I work through the hurricane I saw this Devastation firsthand we want to help make this better I don't know what I'm doing we want to help this make this better we want to improve this area um after dark I don't know if you all been down here after like around 9 or 10 it gets pretty unsafe um there's not a lot of Transportation so we would like to um propose a business idea I have um an idea on a flash drive it's actually my idea sorry I'm getting nervous um it's basically providing golf cart um transportation in between the tram service because I did a focus group over a couple weekends and that's the biggest complaint is the tram is they don't know when it's coming it takes too long and it's not at the right place at the right time so we'd like to fill in those gaps we'd also like to provide a water taxi from San Carlos Island to Fort Meers Beach and we would like to provide car for hire like for airport transportation and ebikes we want to do this all from San Carlos island island so it doesn't impact the traffic here which is what we're trying to alleviate so we would operate everything from there um and then bring traffic or people to um Fort Meers Beach and we would have three different routes one would go right at the end of the bridge and service all the parking lots and then go right back over the bridge to the park and right the other the second one would go left after the bridge and service Margaritaville and then go to the Lighthouse bar make that loop back around and go further down the RO the beach one more Loop and then come back around and then the third one would go all the way down to Publix and back because the other complaint in the focus group was there's no convenience store or anywhere to buy just a quick bite to eat or a drink so we would like to fix all of those problems with our business idea and I have a flash drive with my PowerPoint on it so you can look at it later you can go ahead and give that to the town manager and he'll handle it from there thank you I'm also available thank you that's all I have signed up okay is there anyone else that would like to speak during public comment seeing none we'll close public comment local achievements and recognitions start with you councelor k um just wanted to thank the staff for all their hard work and getting us uh into the new digs it still got that new trailer smell and U and I appreciate it especially coming in on a Saturday and and and doing all that uh personally I just want to thank everybody um for U their kind words wishes um and uh the islands end crew family that brought in food and uh desserts and then the NCH staff that did a fantastic job of taking care of me uh I'd share more but I don't want to violate HIPPA laws [Laughter] so oh here we go I just curious how long it takes you to come up with these sometimes longer than others depends on the meds Dan there you go anything else that's it thank you vice mayor Ado uh it's great to have councelor King back uh as a result of the surgery it's it's great to see you once again hip to the scene John I uh I I wanted to once again uh particularly as we approach the spring break uh uh surge uh we've already had some surges over the last couple months that have been frustrating traffic-wise but I want to once again want to thank the uh the folks that are using The Pedestrian overpass I've done this every week now for the last I think six weeks uh the folks that are taking the time to use those stairs right there at Margaritaville cresen and Estero that is a public uh uh overpass and anyone can use it there are elevators available as I I took I checked them last week to make sure the public had access to the elevators I'd heard concerns that they don't they do and I just if just that extra couple minutes said just saves your friends and neighbors who might be late for a doctor's appointment late for a flight trying to just make an appointment to off Island it just allows the hip replacement uh I just think uh it just it's it's such a it's such an easy step to help your fellow residents to take that pedestrian overpass or the elevator if you can there's just no reason to cross the street there just allows traffic to flow uh last week I had a chance to meet uh three officers from the civilian support unit from the Lee County sheriff on office if you see the folks earlier in the day wearing the white uniforms that's the civilian support unit these folks are retired police officers who've done a lot in their in their career to serve the public and they are literally volunteering their time to help our Island so uh not only to be kind to your fellow residents but to help them do their job if you could use that pedestrian overpass I did a little post uh uh uh last week and I want to thank the town for reposting that to help educate our visitors and our residents on that uh I think Beach talk radio reposted that which was great um the Lee County Sheriff's Office and their Pio reposted that just particularly those folks who uh have rental properties on the island just to let your renters know that that they can use that pedestrian overpass uh anybody who's visiting if you could just encourage them it's such a simple little thing it isn't going to solve all the world's problems but it sure helps that traffic to flow because there's just no reason for a pedestrian to cross there no good reason so and plus again a beautiful view of the ocean from that pedestrian over pass and I just encourage folks to continue to do that uh lastly Mr Mayor a bit unorthodox but since we're in our new building and I think it's appropriate I would ask my colleagues uh for unanimous consent to proceed out of order just for a moment because I want to give Frankie an opportunity I almost have to make Frankie and Andy tell the story because good things are happening on our Island and one of the areas I'd like Frankie to talk about this morning is the permitting issue the mayor has talked about this numerous numerous times on his show that that he's just not receiving complaints on permitting like we used to and I have to tell you I've had the very same experience and in fact it's just been dramatic how well the permitting uh operation has been working and I just don't think we tell that story enough and Frankie if you could just explain to the public what's been happening who's responsible and and why things are working so well I'm not saying it's we solved every problem in the world but boy things have gotten a lot lot better and I just think we need to let the public understand better why and how that's happening if you'd be so kind I appreciate that Mr vice mayor Frankie kachik uh compliance and operations director for the town of Fort Meers Beach um Andy and I have these discussions every day all day um is about empowering people to do their job and um that's just basically what's happened here we we've given people the opportunity to think outside the box think amongst themselves um whatever that Paradigm was before we got involved it didn't exist um they collaborate on a a on a Case by case basis they're always asking questions a lot of it also has to go to Sarah Pro uh some of the Tage that she's given our planning department uh bringing in the Jacobs group as far as our building officials with Joe spec uh John dmer who's with the Jacobs group is here on site multiple times during the week they're getting educated on the job but they're also educating each other as they go along and we're still getting problems but the problems that we're getting are problems um nothing more than any municipality wouldn't work through uh the ladies and gentlemen in the permitting Department um have taken it upon themselves to to make it right the first time they're what we always preach they're educating educating educating wherever they can uh letting people know that when they leave they have everything that they need to succeed um and if they don't they always Circle back so the onus goes on them that they're just a phenomenal group of people and uh we are truly uh like of a better word blessed to have them as employees thank you for that and and that that's who I'd like to recognize this morning for for all all of those folks some of them in the back of the room who have been so helpful in turning our permitting issue around in a very positive way particularly as we open this new town hall I think Andy will talk later as to one of the reasons why these Town trailers were put together the way they were was to make it easier for the public to have One-Stop shopping get their questions answered at permitting if it's more extensive they've got a process to get you back to talk to the permitting folks just to make it more user friendly to the public to visit our town hall so I just think it's all outstanding I just wanted to have an opportunity to recognize those folks in permitting but also have the have the have our town leadership just kind of tell that story a little bit that's all I've got Mr Mayor thank you all right thank you councelor Woodson um yeah so last couple weeks we've had uh once again a couple of fundraisers I mean this is the most generous community that I have ever seen um on the 24th we had the annual Galla at Lovers Key and I think most of you know what a jewel we have in lover Key State Park and we've had a stop start stop start with our fundraisers through covid through hurricane and this was our second official one that happened on the 24th a lot of residents were there and I just want to thank all of them for their generosity we knocked it out of the park no pun intended I didn't mean that honestly I didn't um but we did uh to the point of $290,000 raised for the park um which was just fantastic and then this past Saturday was uh the I guess it was a um concert for the Women's Club and I was down there I didn't get my tickets in time but I kind of listened from a neighbor's house and it was packed and the music was great and you know again the generosity of of this community is overwhelming so thank you sa I first want to um give a shout out to councelor King I I don't know how you're here on day three I had my hip replaced and I didn't make out of bed till day four so that pit paray for you had to throw that in there um I'd like to to give a shout out to the Lions Club and the Chamber of Commerce and all the local bars and restaurants that are putting together shrimp vest it's been a get it attitude there's been no whining no complaining there's a not there's just a ton of people trying to make this a great event this weekend and I hope everybody comes down and gets a passport and participates and it's not going to be the same it's going to be different but I think it's going to be great I think it I really hope it's a a safe great weather weekend and everybody enjoys themselves yeah I agree that was one I had so I'm glad you covered it and I will not make a hip joke I promise maybe um just have two things I want to thank Lee County and their staff for for working with us last week to ensure getting Crescent Park open if you haven't noticed the the ugly fencing that was out on the sidewalk is now gone I don't know that the restroom is open yet it might be as might be today but um now you can at least go through there don't park in there but you you can uh you can get in there so appreciate their help and then just to reiterate the the stuff for the staff you know talking with Amy this morning she said this was her 12th move since the storm can you imagine 12 times having to uproot your office and move it somewhere while you're trying to run a municipality it's it uh it really goes to the the strength of this staff so hopefully there's only one more in your future and that's all I have I have a proclamation I have to read I don't have it out printed so it is a proclamation for flood Awareness Week whereas the town of Fort Meers beach has experienced severe weather in the past in the form of extreme rainfall or tropical storm events resulting in flooding in the town and this flooding has caused damage and flood losses to homes and buildings in all areas whether they are highrisk special flood Hazard areas or low to moderate risk flood zones whereas the town of Fort Meers Beach is a voluntary participant in the National flood insurance program that provides residents with the opportunity to protect themselves against flood loss through the purchase of flood insurance at reduced insurance premium rates as well as set setting higher regulatory standards to reduce the flood risk and potential flood damage to their property and whereas the reduction of loss of life and property damage can be achieved when appropriate flood prep preparedness control and mitigation measures are taken before a flood and whereas the whereas public education and awareness of potential weather hazards and methods of protection are critical to health safety and Welfare of residents the Florida flood plane manager association FEMA has declared the week of March 3rd through the 9th 2024 as flood Awareness Week to promote awareness and increased knowledge know of flood risk the availability of flood insurance flood protection methods how to prepare for and and how to prepare for emergencies now therefore be a proclaimed that the Town Council the town of Fort Meers Beach does hereby Proclaim March 3rd through the 9th 2024 as flood awareness week and further encourage the citizens of the town of Fort Meers Beach to increase their knowledge of how to protect themselves and their property from flooding given under the my hand and seal of the office of Mayor this fourth day of March 2024 I'll sign that when we get a printer next we have advisory committees items reports and appointment we have Don Thomas from the Public Safety Committee good morning good morning um I'm Don Thomas the chair of the Public Safety Committee and I'm coming to you today for several reasons on the the town website the Public Safety Committee is listed as an advisory committee and yes we advise we are an advisory committee but we're not an action committee and as such we've come to you today not necessarily to advise as much as to seek direction from you with so many issues on all of our plates we find ourselves in a precarious position of duplicating not only the efforts of the council and town staff but also other entities such as letco FMB as well as concerned citizens about our own safety and the safety of our visitors issues such as vehicular traffic pedestrian traffic and crossings the stop lights crosswalks Street lighting sidewalk conditions and the unsafe properties around the island as a result from Hurricane Ian so today the Public Safety Committee seeks from you some level of Direction and we're asking for a joint meeting so we can discuss and prioritize some of the issues that you would like to focus our efforts on and things that we actually can do and can make an impact on the island we we understand that some of these issues fall under the purview of uh the Town Council why some of them are Lee County Commissioners and L uh lcso and um some need to be addressed as soon as possible and others can be taken in time so each of the Public Safety Committee members are proud to serve on the committee and serve this town and we look forward to any direction you can provide so if you guys put your heads together and figure out really what our focus should be and and how we can actually do something to make an impact we we'd appreciate it and if you could get back to us we'd love to set a date that's it unless you have any questions for me I wasn't able to make it to the meeting that you guys had just last week but have you gotten anywhere with the tasks that you had on your plate as far as the sidewalks signs crosswalks things like that okay so we've got Lenell crosswalk as you know is is up and running and blinking so that's wonderful we have um listed or we've gotten from Scott worth a electronic or an app that we can go up and down the sidewalks now and pinpoint any issues that are um Troublesome and that was disseminated out as well and everybody has their task so we are in the process of now that we have the app it was just given to us last week by Jason we would can go in and make an electronics instead of calling the staff and saying you know it's all well like I did it and I was like it's two feet from here it was kind of ridiculous so this was a lot more um precise so those are the two things really we have and then also um Jim came and presented to you his idea for the hurricane um I don't know what you call alert system if someone uh chooses to stay on the island that we can let the law enforcement know that this uh person is in this home please go check on them after a storm instead of having them have to go to every single home so he's also in the process of that but other than that it's pretty I mean we're talking about bike safety which is kind of low on the totem pole right now now no I I'm not opposed to having a a joint meeting if I think that'd be great I've got a I've got a a number of ideas I'd love to brainstorm with the committee y we schedule it for maybe an MMP day before or after okay shoot us an email and we through Jason and Amy and you let us know awesome all right thank you have a good day thanks can we do it as soon as this MP or do we have to have it noticed because it's just the mmps this Thursday this Thursday I mean I don't know if that's short note is but I'd hate to have to wait another month yeah well you'd have to get with their schedule to see if it yeah that shouldn't be a legal problem at all Thursday this this Thursday after our M&P otherwise we'll probably end up waiting yeah otherwise we'll end up waiting another month everybody up here is okay with Thursday if she can do it it's just a matter if you can get the the committee on board to be there can make it happen guess what be careful what you wish for you asked you shall receive um yeah it's good with me yeah it's good with me you guys okay yeah okay next we have the LPA chair Saras and backup oh you brought in heavy recruits I see on the must that's right so thank you uh good morning I'm Anita Saras John I wish you a speedy recovery uh I hope that um Frank Andy the council uh staff I hope that none of the comments that were made by the LPA at our recent meeting were taken as an assault or offense on inadequacies or or mispred dures or anything like that it's not at all how it was intended what what was intended by our comments relative to Temporary permits was our fear of how it's going to stunt Redevelopment on the island I've I've heard it many times uh this was a unanimous conversation amongst the LPA which I honestly was surprised by uh you know as you're looking to paint the picture of what Fort Meyers Beach is going to be as we redevelop and these huge projects are coming forward we have to start thinking about what temporary uses are doing to the big picture and in the case of the most recent addition it's it's not painting the picture of the community that I think we're working towards has nothing to do with content it could be a popsicle store the intent of your ordinance 2503 was to was specifically for government and residential uses it was a generous effort on the part of the council to allow people to have a place to live to allow businesses even because you added that in it's it's not in the ordinance but it became part of um you know I mean I know you're supposed to drive 70 on I75 but I don't and so I think in this particular situation with this particular ordinance the intent of the community and of the council was to allow existing businesses on their property to do something like tuna skin did like uh Tom at laola did there's several other great examples on the island but not to invite mobile vendors which are prohibited by ordinance in the town to be temporarily or permanently allowed in the community um so what we're hoping is that this Begins the convers ation with the council as to what's what's the end what's the end game where are we going with this because it seems like it just is a a rolling snowball and I'm afraid that the snowball will roll over us you have anything to add Don I don't think I could add anything to say it anybody thank you so if you have any questions I'm happy to um try and better explain what we were trying to come up with or trying to express to you all um it is a it is a big concern it's not just a concern of the LPA I think it's a real concern of the community I had a woman call me after the meeting and say you know I don't want to live on a street of trailers how long will they be here uh will they be here another six months will they be here another year um Karen thank you for your email uh expressing your concerns about it as well uh I think it is something that needs to be clarified in your ordinance if you are going to continue to allow individual businesses to come to the island where does that stop what are the provisions you're going to make what are the requirements and um I I as well as many other people look forward to having that conversation so yeah I know you and I have talked about this quite a bit it it the whole thing got in my head not I mean it's been in my head but Dan and I went to Florida GF Coast last week or whenever uh to speak to a group of people and he and I were talking about this very issue and then it was like in my head in my head in my head and then boom on Tuesday I just had to say what I was thinking so yeah yeah I you know I've said many times that I think our intent if if you guys remember well I don't think you guys were yeah we were on you were on well I know when we voted on but when we first started having the conversations we were at the Leaky TIY the temporary ones and and Jim I I remember us having the conversation about giving the right of first refusal for commercial businesses to allow back in what was there before but if they they couldn't do it then they could look elsewhere and that was the original conversation that I recall and then you know obviously you guys got elected and then the ordinance is what the ordinances and in that meantime Senate Bill 250 came down from which superseded everything that we did because the original attempt was to do six months with a six-month review to have a maximum of 18 months to be able to use a temporary use well Senate Bill 250 came in and changed that to 36 months from the date of the storm which would be September 28th of 2025 so that kind of tied our hands as far as being able to allow someone temporary use of trailers on their property I don't know how that works with commercial at sb250 when it's talking about the 36 months that's residential that's that's what I read so we're kind of in that gray area to your point I think a need to where businesses are there so I I think we've gotten to the point where we have to come up with an end date to this we have to give enough time I think but we also have to let people know that this is going to be the end of it you know Dan with all due respect you know I admire you greatly and I have a great working relationship with you I'm afraid sb250 is becoming like Oz there's this mysterious s sp250 behind this curtain and nobody clearly understands what it does and doesn't but for the last two days I have talked to at least a dozen people about it some attorneys some not I've read everything I can and I just don't see anywhere where it I don't see anything that the town has done or intends to do that violates sp250 and so what I'm what I am again fearful of is that we have this thing looming out that prohibits us from doing what's best from for our town that doesn't really exist in some capacity it does relative to land use relative to um permits that were existing I mean you know it's SE SE 14 that everybody really quotes right Becky um well actually the 36 month is in section one but that's residential we're mostly talking about about commercial so in section 14 it says cities and counties within 100 miles of where either hurricane Ian or Nicole um made landfall cannot one impose any stop on construction or property damage by the Hurricanes we haven't done that God knows we've helped people right impos more restrict restrictive or burdensome amendments to its comprehensive plan or Land Development uh code we haven't done that we've made it looser impose more restrictive or burdensome procedures around site plans and development before October 1st 2024 so in October 1st 2024 it loosens up on that element however an amendment or development may be implemented if it meets certain criteria provided in the section this section applies retroactively to the date of the storm September 28th so that's what's applying to all this commercial stuff and yet I I I just I don't want it to be like a gorilla in a room and and keep us from doing what we feel is best for the community no and I'm not trying to say that I guess what I'm trying to get at is is to make the point had those things not be allowed we wouldn't have we wouldn't have a hardware store that's true we would you know would we wouldn't have an ice cream shop we wouldn't have restaurants we wouldn't have anything so although I agree with you that it's kind of taking on a shape of its own but I think that's something that we can control we can say you know because of the I know you don't like Senate Bill 250 nobody likes talking but but it is a law now I'm okay and and I think just for clarity and just for ease to use that date as an end date to me makes sense and this is just my personal opinion I'll defer to these guys here from their opinion but that gives a clear understanding to people that you have until September of next year to come up with a plan or I'm sorry commercial or commercial I'm sorry laola I'm I'm I'm sorry for the the places that may or may not be able to do something before them but to not have any clear direction that something's coming out of the ground to your point whoever talked you didn't want to live on a street where there's a trailer park there we all I think share that same philosophy but how much time is too much and how much time is not enough and and by using that guideline of the Senate Bill 250 36 months I think gives people enough time to to plan to to get a plan of action going if September 28th 2025 there's still a trailer there and there's not a foundation coming out of the ground or at least a permit submitted it's a pretty clear indication they have no intention of doing anything it's going to be a I've been saying this since the beginning it's going to be a tough decision for the town we're we know we're going to have violations that we're going to have to write no matter what date you pick it's not going to be pleasant for anyone but we owe that that to the businesses that do want to build a brick and mortar and we do own to the people that want to build their house back um the storm is going to unfortunately affect people different ways and and not everyone's going to be saved and not everyone's going to come back from it but we'll do the best that we can so but but I also think and yeah we have sp250 and everything and it's residential and we all talked about that but as far as the trailers went the um uh business trailers the real intent when we did that was for the people who were already operating businesses in the town before the storm that they could set up a temporary food truck or whatever it may be to get their feet back on the ground so that's where laola came in that's where rude shrimp came in um yot Taco moms Beach Bar all of them now what we're seeing though is businesses that were not on the island before the storm storm being able to rent from owners of property and put up a new business that wasn't the intent that was that was my point we had we had businesses that were thriving on the island the storm took their their brick and mortar away because we didn't allow mobile mobile vendors at that time right so we were able to allow people to get back and reopen everyone on the on the island to have access to food and other things that were here before but if you if you allow everyone want to come in you know if an need and I start a you know Salmon skin or something like that store next to name we start salmon skin I don't know but the point is but that's a good idea we would compete with tuna skin right and tuna skin probably would say well my gosh now there's somebody right next door to me in a camper van selling shirt t-shirts and so the point is is to allow our our businesses to get back and it's it's not to prevent new businesses come on come all if you want to bring a business to the island but bring it in trick and mortar you know plan and and build and I don't disagree with you and I'll play The Devil's Advocate on this to to your point Karen we're it's not like the town is allowing a food truck on a residential property it it if there was something it was a commercial space a commercial business is going on a commercial space and I look at it is let's say the building was we'll just we use whatever building you want let's say Pete's timeout was still there if he decided to clear that out and make it a t-shirt shop is there anything we could do to stop him no no in a break and mortar right but I I get that but my point is that was at least my understanding of our initial discussions of it right after the storm was to allow a property owner to try to earn some business if the original person did not want to come back but now now there was no time frame set at the time other than we had the six-month increments up to 18 months that was the time frame we could review it after 18 months now it's 36 months for residential not commercial and I think by putting an end on it I don't think anybody wants to have 50 trailers parked in in 50 different locations that weren't here before the island but do we owe it to the property owners that have been here for a long time to if nobody else is coming to to do what they have to do to help pay their property taxes I just I I feel having a little compassion they are even though they maybe not running the business they still own the land that has been there for decades so I agree in the instance where the business was here and and there's one that comes to mind where we have a ice cream trailer in a hardware store right and it's on someone's property that owns that owned the property that ran a business before and I have no issue with a business that's been here before renting that property right and the same thing goes with the beach whale Beach whale's going to start soon as soon as they get their permit they'll start they're going to have to move somewhere else if they're to stay in business if the 7-Eleven property next door was willing to uh rent that property for the time while they're building their building again I think perfectly fine they were on the island before so that that's my view you is just protecting our so let's take it a little so let's take it a little further so what is the recommendation from the LPA is it to tell them all to shut down and get off the island is it to not let anymore from the state what is the recommendation to to cut off the valve to to push the envelope to folks who are going to rebuild their property rebuild but you cannot start a new business on a property with a mobile vendor it's proh hited in our in our code mobile vendors are prohibited in our code so you cannot do that now you kind of gloss over gloss over the notion of well we had this conversation I agree you had the conversation but that is not in your ordinance so much like I know it's 70 but I like to drive 90 I mean it's it's not in it's not what the rule is now have we been generous and I I say we as the town your staff the council have you been generous with Scott and Jackie having uh the hardware store on their property yes uh laola setting up a beautiful situation yes everybody who's doing business in a temporary way are really not included in your ordinance 2305 they're just not included it was meant for government and residential so what we're saying is don't let the big picture Redevelopment of the island be sidetracked by continuing to allow more mobile businesses to come into Fort Meyers Beach that were not here prior to the storm do not allow that because what's going to happen is it's going to continue to proliferate and as far as we could see there's no basis to allow it and I I think it's it's similar to my lot I have a lot that I'm not living on and I'm not living in a camper on it but if I wanted to put a camper on it my understanding is I cannot put a camper on it and allow Anita to stay in that camper to rent from me meaning it's my property you can let me stay there for free you could yeah you could stay for free I couldn't rent it right okay so so I don't think it's any different when you have a business a commercial property where you had a business before you can put a mobile uh camper on it to run whatever business you had before or there could be another business that was on the island before that needs to set up while they tear down their building or rebuild or whatever the case may be and some businesses may move to different places on the island and I think the temporary thing is fine but um I think we ought to follow it for commercial the same as we're we're my understanding is that we follow it for for residential and you were clear about that in the ordinance because you said residential trailers cannot be used as airbnbs and it was funny because I went back and listen and Karen you objected to that because you said that's a lot of people's business you're right you said uh um people lost their revenue from rental properties that they had before Scott's in that business too uh so what's the difference of allowing a a um a mobile home or a trailer on a property that was a business beforehand or allowing Maryanne soda shop to come to the beach and set shot because someone's got space to rent and Dan I know I I Mr Mayor dance fine with again with all due respect the devil has enough Advocates I think I think we need for you all to take a stance here and decide how how is this going to move forward and like I said it has there's no offense to your staff that look these are extraordinary situations extraordinary times and you all are extraordinary people but there needs to be a line drawn in the sand of how we're going to move forward and if it is going to be come one come all I I suspect Ed Ryan's going to be opening up a t-shirt shop in Time Square he's he's and I know he's going to hear this and laugh that I've said it but it's not what we intended and you know what he could open up a t-shirt shop in Time Square if he wanted to build a building yes you could you know I mean that's where I'm coming from if you if we're not prohibiting new business but new business needs to be brick and mortar and the new business needs to comply with all of your rules and regulations of starting a new business right but if a new business comes in they they should have the right to open up a mobile shop till they and I I think that's one of the reasons why we've been pushing so hard for these uh developmental deviations to get this process quicker because that window's closing I mean we're talking next September 2025 that sounded like a long way away but it really isn't if you have to go through all the hoops and and in ladders I mean it's it's it's it's coming quickly so I think that's another reason why we need to really look at the developmental deviations so people you know there's there's people will know what they can do with their lot and when they have some certainty then they can open up a mobile play yeah but they're already starting to go through that process that they're do that I'm saying they should be yeah they should be I agree absolutely yeah in the situations that have boiled up to um bring this to a head um you know everybody knows right this minute what they can do with their property what they don't know is what they might be able to get away with or what they might be able to do more than what they can do today through uh special accept through the development agreement with deviations through a CPD but right now they know what they can do I no I just would say at a very minimum uh I think it's very disappointing that our previous Council uh when I say Council I mean Town attorney didn't codify the intent of the council that that that both the former mayor and the mayor so well articulated which was our vision that's not articulated in our in our current or ordinance and I I think we need to correct that at a minimum and I think that needs to be a discussion that Becky and and maybe through an M&P meeting we need to discuss what we can and can't do legally to address the legitimate concerns that Anita and Don have raised and and we need to figure out a way to put it in language form to see what it looks like and then we can have a probably a better discussion but the the current ordinance is inadequate and I think again I'm shocked that it was so poorly drafted at because it did not reflect any of the concerns that we raised and and the and the empathy that we raised initially so I want to know from our town attorney what we can and can't do legally and how we would how we would take what Anita is suggesting and codify it in a in in a current ordinance oh you want an answer now no something to think about yes please that's right Becky go maybe just a thought you don't have to have an answer y okay all right um we have to tiptoe around uh s sp250 with regard to having something more restrictive you're correct the current ordinance um although it has the word commercial in it it doesn't address it um so when when I read it I was trying to figure out who wrote this I mean because it really it doesn't hold together at all unfortunately um so I think I think we'd be okay with s sp250 because um we can't adopt anything more restrictive or burdensome um on development uh issues but since it really wasn't addressed I think we might be able to you know make that work almost like a clarifying Amendment to the ordinance right sure sure and we can go back and um I can watch the um uh the videos of you know when y all discussed it and what the legislative intent was now we can't go back and cause someone who relied upon what you know was actually written um you know if they acted on it and spent money on it we can't go back and change that but um we just have to be careful about s sp250 but Becky could I just ask you a question on this because this sort of this drives me crazy um so it says that you can't do anything more restrictive from the day of the hurricane forward but the town's restriction on mobile vendors comes from 1996 so that restriction was in place woo years before the hurricane I I get that but the the ordinance that we have now opened that door or at least from an operational standpoint it opened that door it opened the door for governmental it opened the governmental and residential it was it was definitely written that way I don't know why they put commercial in the title and they com put commercial short-term rentals and it could be and the prohibition it didn't it didn't say say anything about um for instance if if um someone wanted to have a trailer and do a long-term lease it doesn't prohibit that it the word it uses is vacation rentals as I recall um are not permitted in it but um but if somebody wanted to do that it would already be prohibited by the ordinance prohibiting a mobile vendor but Anita I think if you want to weigh heavily on the ordinance that you're referring to there would be nothing in Time Square right now at all I know that would be anywhere I know I'm just I'm just asking um to be clear about what what the rule is what the rule is and more importantly what decision are you going to make going forward is it going to be as clear as Karen is that if you were a business on Fort Meyers Beach prior to the hurricane we are going to wave the mobile vendor rule we're going to allow you to put some sort of mobile business on your property that was the intent I don't think anybody has any questions about that or are you simply going to leave it open until um the three years have expired um what what I worry about you tying it to the three years of sb250 is what if they decide to change that and make that five years instead of three years then does that needle move down down further and that's where the discussion came at the LPA about stunting Redevelopment because I mean I'll just I'll just tell you that I have spoken to a few people who are operating their businesses in Mobile units and they're not suffering financially of course they're not why why would incentive that's yeah there's no incentive to move past may may interject I I think the Airbnb in the trailer that's that's that's long gone no one's coming down here and renting a trailer I mean there's there's enough property managers and vacation rental companies there with other options that make more sense I don't think anybody up in Michigan's go hey I want to run a trailer not an FMB for the week I mean I think that's out the window I don't think we need to that that discussion's gone down I wish we could i' I've tried to find it and I can't find the meetings anywhere from when we were at leaky Tiki to listen to the initial conversation at the very first meeting when we had this conversation cuz my recollection of what was talked about there is completely different than what we talked about in and ultimately adapted so I try to go back to what we initially had planned and and I look at it as we know why this came down the tracks we know what specific business we're referring to that started this train down this track it actually started before it was coming anyway it was coming anyway but this just gave it more steam yes and and I look at it as whether you like the business or you hate the business what if the owner of that property it was their business it wasn't the business that was there before nobody nobody be saying anything okay nobody be saying anything so if he was to go out tomorrow and buy that business from them nobody would have an issue with it to me that doesn't I mean if the issue is temporary trailers and moving development then I think you have to put a time frame on when you can have the temporary use that how do you about this though Dan I mean could we talk about at least creating a zone or two because I I think I was talking to somebody yesterday they said there was more options on the south end when the salv when the Red Cross was there so I I think if there's a need and it makes sense maybe find an area that maybe could be be the place and put that end date of next September because yeah I think you look at just Santini people screaming for yeah I'm talking some of Mile since squares I I don't know if Time Squares the answer but maybe create a Zone where if somebody a new business wants to come in hey you've got 18 months and you know the Market's going to decide if the place we're all talking about it's going going to work whether you like it or not the market is going to determine whether that business is successful if they're not they're not going to stay here right right and I think if if any business if any new business wanted to set up maybe they plan to to rent space at Santini could they set up a mobile vendor you know maybe there's some you know something that could be put around that to um to get at what you're saying Scott to to allow someone that's new that has a you know has a lease sign maybe with with Santini you know but Santini is not ready or you know whatever the case may be maybe they bought a piece of property and they're starting a new business but I think it has to have some parameters on it can't be can't be three years or five years or or you know it's probably 18 to 24 months to build a structure right permit and build a structure well I I think in hearing the interview with the Santini Plaza owner yesterday he's very optimistic that this time next year the people will be open and running in there well I have no reason to doubt him but if that's the case that's the case but I am I am choosing to share that optimism yeah I bet you are I remember I'm saying last June I just want to be very cautious as we go forward and discuss this that you know just using Time Square as an example there's got to be a time limit of when you're going to be able to build something I mean I think they would all love to keep what they have there I think Lola is doing just fine and and I don't know about yaco I'm sure they're doing fine but at some point is that what it's going to be is that all it's going to be that's the decision we want you to make I agree it should be because because it it is uh I don't think it's what the LPA is hoping you decide I mean we're we're hoping to see well I don't know that it could anyway just because of the the flood zone but yes so um you know I feel like um our comments on Tuesday uh created a bit of a Sticky Wicket for you and you're right not nobody's going to be happy when and uh the hammer comes down whenever that is but being clear about what is going to be permitted is essential right now essential you know mayor uh I caught you yesterday on your show uh talking about not being able to locate the the video so I did go back and and find on October 25th uh the discussion about it and um and I found the minutes in also from October 25th um and town manager then explained that businesses might want to set up food trailers until their business was rebuilt the vice mayor then suggested that only prean Fort Meers Beach businesses be allowed to operate on the island uh council member V moved to allow Fort Meers Beach businesses to operate outdoor displays or trailers or food trucks SLT trailer and that was carried unanimously and somehow that got dropped in between uh the 25th and then the ordinance that was drafted m I thought I could find the minutes but I couldn't find the video so I'm glad you found it but that was my recollection of that was the intent it was but it didn't translate into what you see I think we everybody's okay with it let's add it to this discussion because it we knew it was coming it's just a matter of when it was coming and when you going to have to get busy we get busy remind you remind let us know if we can help well I think you've stirred the pot enough Anita thanks you're welcome well see you later if if I could say something um the Restriction with regard to the commercial stuff which is in section 14 of sb250 um that ends uh October 1st of this year so we could put something and have an effective date so that people would know it's coming you could adopt it but the effective date could be October 1st of 2024 well again that's that's that's where that's where you're going to have an empty Time Square because there will be nothing there there will be nothing down in Santini that would be temporary there would be nothing temporary at all based on maybe maybe you go back to just what John just said the businesses that were here prean have another grace period maybe they have one more year of a grace period to your three-year suggestion but if you weren't here but so are you saying and this is where I guess maybe I'm getting confused are you saying we'll just use mangoritas they chose not to come back to the island so does that island or that spot have to sit empty now because mangoritas that was the existing business before the storm decided not to come back and therefore that landowner cannot collect any rent right if I I think if mangoritas wanted to come back or I went and bought mangar's name and wanted to set up on that property I think that works or another property on the island mangoritas but now that mangoritas is incoming back does that then mean that that land sits empty we're saying no new business yeah I mean I mean that was the intent right we thought the intent was for the businesses that were here before because again you're going to create a tremendous amount of uh I mean it's great to have places to go pick choose to eat but we had plenty of choices before so if everyone sets up the whole intent I think was to protect those businesses and give them sort of some some uh legs under them to start earning money again and be able to start permitting and Planning and Building and so or waiting for someone to build a commercial building they could leas space in so if that was the intent which I believe it was and I think you said it was the no a new business would not be able to be allowed on that lot until or you know unless they built something new in in my view but maybe there's maybe there's some uh way that there's a lease on the lot and there's a times period set maybe the town can say Hey you have to go to permit within you know 90 days or 180 days or whatever for a for a business and if you do that you could set up a mobile uh place but hey there's a date you know date definitive that you have to be out of that mobile you know that mobile vendor so you know maybe it's 12 months if you if you've got a permit and if you've signed a lease on the property or you're buying the property or whatever it's just about setting some parameters and then I think code enforcement making sure that we're we're following or they're following it well I will say I think the storm has this is just one of many things that the storm has caught at us a wicked what do you call it a sticky Wicked a sticky Wicked it's it's it's not going to be a pleasant thing months from now or 12 months from now what is going to be pleasant is the future that we are going to create I mean that's going to be pleasant and all of these folks that are uh spending billions millions and millions of dollars to create projects to bring them forward um it's it's if that's the picture that you want to to paint it there has to be some consistency I think one other thing if you focus on the businesses that were here before cash flows from a business create cash available for Debt Service right so if you've got a business that's been set up right now say 12 months and they're doing well we use yot Taco as an example yot Taco may have enough cash available for Debt Service they could go get debt to be able to build a small building on some piece of property or buy a piece of property if you continue to allow more and more mobile vendors in it's very easy right there's no barriers to entrance and then you're now yaco is sharing with Anita taco stand or whatever so it it it won't allow that and it may sty me that growth it may sty the build back you know or or prevent the build back because they may not have enough business to support building back and then they're off the island and then we lose businesses from the island that was the theme of our conversation and we're very happy to be here to share it with you today enjoy thank you for listening you got all that Amy okay next we have the local planning agency appointment we have four people I believe is that correct do you have your little are we doing the ranking like we normally do yeah it's usually how they go put the names on and one 2 three four MH do we want to is there anyone here that's would like to speak that's uh going for the LPA position see anybody I don't see anybody oh yeah who's got your he's got it okay that was F we're not ranking we're just checking choosing one just say choose one so it's no ranking there's no ranking that's right no let's let's just choose one let's just choose one which one which one we talk so on this one are we just choosing one okay we'll choose one see what happens if not then we'll go to ring guess we're choosing one and if it doesn't work then there you go one two three four all videos are people partying and so with four votes is John mlan and one vote Ed shover all right congratulations John I know he's out of [Music] town you got a new member Anita teach him the sticky Wicked all right next we have the uh advisory boards designation of council representation to the six town advisory boards committee IES first one is the Anchorage advisory committee the current liaison is vice mayor adle well we have had an infusion of talent we already had some nice good people on there but we've had an infusion of four new members it's extremely uh excuse me extremely active got a great group and I I would I would like to continue to to be the layers on to that I have no objection is there any objection okay next is the audit committee the currently Aon is council member king king um I'm a fan of yours mayor but that was one of your first mistakes was putting a man on an audit committee that has trouble balancing his checkbook um I think I think Scott might be a better choice for that and I think he's looking forward to the opportunity I would I would love to be on the audit Comm I have no objection any objection to that great oh all yours Bay Oaks Bor cab currently aison councelor Woodson I love that job I love borab I was on borab I want to keep borab if they want to keep me it's it's fun Betty Simpson is the greatest he's so awesome smallest handwriting on the planet but yeah that's true tiniest woman on the planet I think I have no objection to that anyone have any objection to that no okay next is culture and environmental Learning Center Advisory Board currently aison is vice mayor atal uh that is a an amazing uh advisory committee as well we have tremendous institutional knowledge there it's been a joy to serve with the folks on that committee and I would I would be privileged to continue to serve on that all right I have no objection to that any objection none next is vacant uh councelor vich when he when he resigned he uh left open a seat for the Marine environmental resources task force for the murf committee is there anyone that would like to be the liaison for that one I'd like to step up and take that challenge okay I don't have any objection to that agreed it's all John's next is a Public Safety Committee I'm on that I would like to stay on it if nobody has any objection I don't object okay Scott no okay I think that covers all of them did you get it all Amy perfect next are the outside committees scroll down um the first is the coastal and Heartland National Estuary partnership policy committee um currently Chad I know Chad's here currently Chad is and does I believe that usually is a staff member isn't it that's on that one Chad is he's still okay to be the person for that yes he wav Z oh I'm not sure it says that in there it says part citizens and elected officials and resource managers working together hey morning everyone uh Chad shoots uh environmental staff so uh there's actually three positions there's a technical a management and a policy uh three different positions to uh fill for chin up as they like to call it um so the policy one is preferred for an elected uh official if youall like to continue um it's up to youall well just reading what it says uh it says the policy committee they're expected to attend the regular meetings or designate a representative in writing from the appointing board which would be us with full authority to act or vote on any issue at the meeting so in my mind you if we approve that you can continue in that yes sir if you're and you're okay with that yes sir do we need a motion to do that or is it just a um yeah we need to vote on that okay I'll make a motion to keep Chad jutes as our uh designated person on the coastal and Harland National Estuary partnership policy committee second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none motion carries unanimously next is the coastal advisory committee again Chad shoots is on that Chad are you okay with staying on that one as well I think he's our best yes yes no the coastal advisory committee okay I will make a motion to approve Chad shes to be on the coastal advisory committee second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously next is the Fort Meers Beach Elementary School youth Council currently I guess I'm on it and I did not even know it so I was going to ask what is it I I I honestly did I saw I don't know if Anita is still here but as I remember that Mr Mayor I think just traditionally the mayor has served as the representative but I don't I've never I don't know what they do I don't either so I'd be happy to continue doing it if someone can tell me tell me where I need to go maybe you should get your group together I first I I don't remember seeing it I mean I think the elementary school does like a Civics unit where they bring in like a mock Council and so we'll reach out to the school and have them reach out to you okay just let me know where I gotta be sounds good I don't know what I was supposed to tell me I saw my name there I thought oh what am I not doing Horizon Council currently we have council member Woodson is on the horiz horizon Council CC Woodson yeah I actually enjoy being on that um um it gives us a lot of insight into tourist dollar and work with um pretty much all the Mayors and their County Commissioners superintendent the school board is on that so uh it gives us a lot of insight into what's going on in Lee County yeah that's a that's one of my favorite too that's a good one you want to stay on I assume yes I would like to I don't have any objection I'll make a motion to approve uh councelor Woodson to continue being the representative for the Horizon Council I'll second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing done that carries unanimously the mo Metropolitan planning organization currently it's council member King you still okay with you're moving up the chain there moving up the chain and dereck's keeping me in line so very good I'll make a motion to continue having councelor King be on the Metropolitan planning organization SE got a motion and a second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none it motion carries unanimously Southwest Florida Regional planning Council it's a self-governing committee this is one that I think comes up every time and nobody's really there's nobody on it it meets the third Thursday of the month current repr staff is currently the one that fits in that so who on our staff sits on that Andy first time I've heard of it so I I don't I don't know if I mayor if memory serves me Mr Mayor I think that organization has been relatively inactive but I what I that's my recollection Chad is environmental it' probably be Chad I would imagine or maybe Mark well Regional planning it's it might be something to okay who Sarah Sarah you okay with that okay I will make a motion to have Sarah Pro Chad you wanted to say something oh okay I will make a motion to have Sarah PR be our representative for the southwest Florida Regional planning Council I'll second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none motion carried unanimously South Florida resiliency Coalition we currently have no one on that I'm wondering that's a CO just may I'll read it so that maybe you can this might be a staff one too the Coalition unites County and Municipal governments within the counties of Charlotte Lee and CER with natural and cultural resource managers to utilize the Region's vulnerability to the effects of climate change sea level rise storm stormin warming extremes and P persperation precip precipitation and adaptively plann for or mitigate its consequences through the identification implementation of best practices the Coalition is further committed to engaging the public through education and participation in the decision-making process I would I would imagine Mr howy would be a perfect fit for that he just agreed did he okay I'll make a motion to approve Jeff Hy I don't think you got much of a choice there but uh make a motion to approve Jeff poy for the southwest Florida resiliency Coalition I'll second any further discussion all those in favor signified by saying I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously and last is the TDC the tourist Development Council which I'm currently on we are currently a voting member and I would like to stay on it if no one has any objections what happens it says the voting member will expire June 30th so then we get no vote in it we just still on the Council of representation we just don't get to be one of the voting members it goes to the two highest um contributors to the TDC fund and it rotates first and second every year last year was sanabelle this year is us next year it may be someone completely different depending on the Storm TDC dollars who pays the most into the TDC but you can't go you can't go two times in a row two years in a row no it alternates altern between the top two contributors okay I would move that the mayor continued to serve on the TDC as our representative got a motion in a second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously next we have approval of the minutes from the management and planning session from February 15 2024 and the Town Council special meeting from February 15 2024 I just have one slight correction on the uh special Town council meeting okay under the administrative agenda a Town Council vacancy it said pending litigation in Florida legislature I think that needs to be corrected to legislation make sense to you yeah okay and with that I'll move approval got a motion from councelor King I will second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously next we have the remaining of the consent agenda which is resolution 2443 resolution 24 447 uh 2451 resolution 24- 52 and the other ones were pulled so is there a motion to approve the I thought we pulled 2452 no the the one on the paper is different than the one online so the one that John was referring to were the two for VOR and resolution 2455 correct down uh yes element and the 24 because the administrative agenda got moved and it was updated online but not on the paper copy okay gotcha is there a motion to approve the remaining of the consent agenda so moved and a motion by councelor King second secondly by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously do you okay well I noticed we don't in in our agenda we before public we want to do the remaining consent agenda items before the public hearings I would assume okay because it's not on here just want to make sure so we'll talk about resolution 2455 a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving a supplemental task authorization Tor Tech Inc not to exceed $688 c0 for water utilities for Marina booster Pump Station Rehabilitation the I believe the verer one is first well but we could do whichever I was just pulling the two from the administrator and putting them below the other one but is that okay yeah but don't we have 2451 first no he didn't those didn't get pulled the what we have these these two items actually got put on over here so Goa gotcha gotcha gotcha okay I was just going to ask for you know was sent to proceed out of order whatever the order is oh we're good I thought I was confused yeah well we've already read this one let's just do this one if everybody's okay with it yes okay John I just would like an explanation to the public as to what this is regards to Mark Mark is coming up Public Works directory morning everyone so John I didn't I didn't hear what your question was I'm sorry I just wanted an explanation of what this is for the public oh okay very good so uh we get our water from a sub aquous crossing under the bay and it goes to a pump station and this is the Moss Marine Pump Station it's located down at mossine during the storm obviously it was underwater without that pump station we can't get enough pressure up and down the island Supply everyone so this is a vital key component to our distribution system they can't fill the tanks in the South they can't do anything without this pump station there was some rebuilding to it done after the storm but it was not done um to the best of its abilities so right now if if that pump station goes out we're basically on boil water notice on the entire Island so this is sort of um a temp temporary fix but it's one that's needed because if if we had to bring it up to coat it would have to be 15 ft off ground and it would take a very long time to do that we're trying to get this now so that we don't have any headaches from us so it we're trying to do it so that we can provide pressure to the island all the time but looking to the Future to where then we can bring it up to the code that's going to be required because new developments are coming in and they're going to want to move it and all this and that but we can't wait for those developments to come in we have to do something now so that we can provide the citizens with the pressure that they need Frankie does this fall under the C feema reimbursement funding for the 68,000 this is kind of weird it it kind of does to a point um some some of it does but because of where it's at and the way Mark described it um it's a joint venture between us and the county the water that's coming into that station is the county side the station itself and getting it to the island so walking this is vital so we can address the other part of it which would be the female part okay yeah sorry I didn't mention that yeah the the county is right at the edge of our station then we take it after that but the station technically is our pumps and motors and like I said it was underwater I think some of the electrical components are probably fused together from the salt still running if you know what I mean it's not good it's it's really not good at all what would be the time frame of fixing this it shouldn't be too bad um we are looking at to probably to buy the pumps and motors quickly right off um if we do it ourselves if we buy the pumps and motors separate from trying to go to a process bid type of thing we can get those quickly and then we can get the electrical firm to come in and hook them up so it should be pretty quick go ahead Frank not not to step on markad we had had discussions with the county actually uh supplied us with their price uh on on what they had paid for the exact same pump so they' given us all that information moving forward yeah um so so our intent is to replace it inhouse yes sir yeah replace it in house obviously we can't pull the pumps and motors but we I do know contractors who can come in and do that okay and they'll come in pretty quick any other questions I'll move resolution number 24-55 second Motion in a second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I thanks Mark thanks guys thanks Mark uh next next is the VOR settlement agreement does you care which order we do it you want do the agreement first and then okay I would do the agree we can do them together if you would read both of them and then we'll um okay because it is a package okay the V VOR settlement agreement there is Seeking a motion to approve a settlement agreement with vtor Contracting Services LLC in the amount of 225,000 related to disputed billing and work perform following hurricane Ian now that would be resolution 24-54 V vtor budget amendment a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida authorizing a budget amendment in the amount of 225,000 for payment of settlement of a billing dispute Under The Prompt payment act for Hurricane Relief work performed by vtor Contracting Services LLC and providing for an effective date John uh wasn't trying to open up a can of worms here but I just did want to have an explanation for the public okay um well the town received a demand from vtor um for a mediation under the Florida local government prompt payment act um and as a result of that there is mandatory uh mediation and the town hired um a mediator a very very accomplished um attorney uh Derek Rooney who is here I've asked him to come um and he mediated it there were two mediation sessions um the result of any mediation if it's successful is something that neither side is crazy about um but it it works it settles the matter um the problem from the town's side on this was that the agreement had a provision for attorneys fees and it actually the agreement itself said that the attorney's fees were in favor of the Town however under Florida law if you have attorney fees in favor of the town it's in favor of the other side too so um the it appears even under the town's calculations that the town did owe money to VOR which was not paid um um there were definitely questions as to a lot of things that went on um dur you know shortly after the storm there there were things that happened and it um the paperwork is not particularly good on it so after two mediation sessions which is a lot um we came with a settlement the settlement amount is um going to come $225,000 out of the money that we just recently received from Mr pad the 250,000 that we just received so it's not it's not um money that was budgeted already because the um money that we got from Mr prad was basically found money and I asked Mr Rooney to come to address you know any questions that you have with regard to the mediation because he was there he was very um helpful with us resolving the issue would anybody like to hear from Mr R can I ask a question real quick uh Madame Town attorney could could you discuss this attorney fee provision that was in this contract language and explain what it is and explain whether this would be language that this is prior to tenure this would be language that you would allow in a contract it it is not um for one thing it gives you the impression that only our side could get attorney fees which is not something that can happen in Florida um and it's it's virtually always my recommendation to not have an attorney's fee provision in contracts like this because it really puts a lot of risk on a town because um It's Not Unusual in commercial litigation if something is particularly complex involves a lot of Discovery takes a long time goes to trial you can have attorney's fees claims which just dwarf the amount of money at issue at trial so it's It's Not Unusual to have 500,000 a million dollars in attorney's fees and I see uh Mr hayatt shaking his head he knows and and I've seen it a bunch of times so Becky this particular language that was used prior to your tenure it's no longer used in our contractual correct yeah so this was this this this particular provision because it was in the contract put us in part into the situation that we're here today I guess absolutely I guess what I'm trying to make sure and be clear to folks is that going forward this is not going to happen again because we no longer allow this type of contractual language to be used is that fair yes yes one other question procedurally uh is in this in the in the in the dis in in the notes Here It discusses where one of the department heads basically verbally expanded a contract uh on her own valtion uh I'm guessing uh this is all prior to the tenure of our current leadership I I'm guessing that it would be difficult under your leadership that a department head would have thatth is that a fair characterization that is very fair so going forward this is unlikely to happen again absolutely thank you so I just have more of a comment and a question um it seems that I'm just going to say it this just reeks of the incompetence that we had in our attorney and our town manager and how the management of the town was taking place at that time and we keep on covering in these things and I know I brought up a long time ago about a forensic audit of all the issues that we've had and that we've uncovered that have cost us money in the past and continue to and is there any thought process to doing that I think now that you know with the audit committee they've reconvened and and Joe we've gotten to a good place um I Joe can probably speak to it I'm not sure if he's in here but if he wants to speak to but that's something the audit committee can take up and discuss as we move into the Joe if you want to move into the next audit since we've just finished one we had to had to get to a place where we had a good spot to to leap off on but Joe might have more insight Joe ANUK Director of Finance for Fort Meers Beach um it is something that has been it is something that has been of concern obviously and it's been expressed so we're aware of that and I believe the audit committee is as well our original Focus though was of course to get caught up through the F fiscal year 2022 audit and make sure that everything was was clean there when we did receive a clean audit opinion there and now we're also focusing on 2023 but I I think that at probably any time Hereafter we would be in a good position if you if you so desire or if the audit committee recommends so to bring in someone separately to do a paren of on it if that's what you would desire to have so in doing that what would be the advantage to us could we go back and go after anything or how does that work no I mean if you're talking about the attorney issue there's a two-year statute of limitations um on malpractice I'm sorry we're within that um by the time you got an audit done I suspect that you would not be and I I think it would be very very difficult for instance there is no way that um you could let me step back for a second um legal malpractice actions are just a a real rabbit hole it's it's something that um I would not recommend I don't think you I think you'd be throwing good money after bad um and I think it would Sid trck a lot of the you know wonderful things the town is doing um I I really believe that that the um the changes that are being made now um are important we learning from the mistakes of the past so spending a whole lot of money you know going back and and realizing you know how much money was wasted by somebody else and trying to go after it I don't think that's going to work having if the purpose of the audit is to um find the mistakes and make sure they don't happen again then that's a great thing but um I I believe that the town manager now you know has completely different I didn't know the former Town manager but from everything I have observed from you know the history of what went on um he wasn't anything like like your current Town manager so I don't think you're going to have I don't think you're going to have the problems is it safe to say that we've uncovered as many of these yeah that's that's my question so you always look at exposure so how many more contracts how many more situations like this are we is the town exposed to because I think we should know what our risk is and what we we've looked into this at nauseum to a point um after the first couple that kind of hit the fan um so to speak and to say sit here and say that there's not one lurking out there I'm not going to go out there but we are currently trying to go through everything that we have uh a lot of the contracts that were put together right after the storm were done by state help uh people in here writing contracts getting them out getting them in front of legal legal per uh giving their purview and off they went uh we found an awful lot of these that had the town not in a good light and had the vendor in a good light of those we've already have come to their conclusion they've they've reached their their end point uh so we're not on the hook for a lot of those but to sit here and all of us and say that there's not one out there you know I I'm not going to go on that limb yet um we we need to get settled we need to get into our the paperwork that we do have uh the files that did swim and and and kind of kind of go back and make sure that we're not beholden to any of those and address them as soon as we air them out I if I could ask a question Joe uh to Karen's point we have an audit committee and their primary role and i' I'd love to see it expanded because we have some really talented people on the audit committee is to select an outside auditing firm to do an annual audit of the town is there a way that we could expand that audit to to take on some forensic uh pieces of that puzzle or do do you think that outside audit could in other words can it can it serve the role of a forensic audit or is that a completely separate uh look well just in my personal opinion I think it would be better to have a completely independent separate audit firm because there's the potential for conflict of interest because it's possible that there may be something that exists that perhaps the existing audit firm should have or could have uncovered if they had done things differently and I I don't know that it would be good to have that same firm looking at things so I think just to make sure that there is no conflict of interest I'm not saying that they would do that but just to protect the town from that I think your point is this the outside auditing firm was the same prior to the I as it is is it it's the same for poan so it is it'd be a little challenging for them to catch their own mistakes in essence is what you're saying well I think so but a franic atic is a different kind of audit so they would be doing different procedures but to some degree it does kind of touch on the same things they'd be looking at similar transactions theyd be looking at similar records that this existing audit firm would have already looked at so but they did not look at it with those same eyes okay thank you Joe do you feel you've got your hands wrapped around with where all the money is and what accounts it was in I know there was some struggle at first to try to understand the system that was in place and you've done a great job in your team I think to to get your hands around it do you feel confident enough to that we're in a good position um to understand where everything is and how it was put out maybe contract still out there Frankie's point but financially from the town's aspect do you think it's something that's needed a par AIT I I think that what I've what I've seen but see I'm not a prin aor but from my position my perspective what I'm looking at I have not seen any evidence of that type of thing myself so I don't have any concerns that I've uncovered this or I've uncovered that that's causing me to be concerned I've not seen anything like that but I'm not a fc auditor so um but from my you know from my perspective I have not seen anything to cause me concern I know when uh we discussed this earlier I had brought it up with then interim Town manager Keith Wilkins in Iowa the state auditor will conduct forensic audits of uh school boards Municipal municipalities and things things like that I'm not sure Becky if that's something that would be done here if you even know that or I've never heard of that done that doesn't mean it couldn't happen I I'm not sure I can look into it yeah if that might be an Avenue that might save us some money uh going down that way U and from something that's a a public Institution any other questions for Joe no I mean I brought this up and I'm I'm infuriated more than anything um but if you feel that and I know i' I've talked at nauseum as well with Andy and Frankie on this so they know exactly where I'm coming from but I think we are on a good path now um it when these things come up though it just drives me insane so if you think that we are in good shape I guess my only other question would be do we feel using the same audit firm rather than switching to a new audit firm would be any advantageous just to start out with a clean slate now that we have everything in order is that something that has been talked about or considered it it has of course when I came on we were already in the process of undergoing the audit for 2022 with the existing Auditors so that wasn't an option to change Midstream and we had finished the audit so late because of all the extenda circumstances it was like done really I think it was after September 30th into October when it was finally completed and we should already be starting 2023 audit and because of that process being so late it was really too late to select new Auditors for 200 23 and we still had contract extensions but the the intention is to I I believe I I hope I'm not speaking on a turn with the yudit committee because I don't know they've actually said this officially but I think the in conversations with individuals I believe the intent is to go to issue an RFP request for proposals for new audit firm for for this 2024 audit and and start fresh as you say do we know when that our current audit company was first hired was it with it was several years ago I don't have the exact date um they did go out I guess you you know what I'm asking yes they did go out for RFP um couple well at least a year and a half ago maybe two years ago and they were reselected again through through a competive address I think it was 21 okay but I believe that the recommendation came from the audit committee right yes it didn't come from the staff it came from from the audit committee reviewing that's true okay so the audit committee was the one that recommended this firm okay that's good to know thank you I guess I'll ask for a parliamentary U do you want these combined as one motion since we've discuss them together or do you want the settlement and the budget as two separate they can be two separate okay I will move the veter settlement agreement and I will second it for discussion just to wanted to add just a little bit to it to your point councilor woods and I think this we're all pretty infuriated over this whole situation but you know the fact we've got our arms around it now we're moving forward and we really owed a Deb of gratitude to the Jacksonville IC team that came in they're the ones that really caught on to this and realized that things were going the wrong direction and and uh Cindy Davis who came in and she was uh work really well with our staff to help train them to understand exactly what had to be put in place and how it had to be put in place and she was to say she was firm would be an understatement she she uh she went yep she she was she was a good fit for the right time but we owe the town owes uh that IC team a really big Deb of gratitude because they worked very hard for us and caught a lot of things that could have made this far far worse so that we got a motion by councelor King seconded by mayor allers any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none motion carries unanimously I'll move uh resolution 24-54 veter budget appropriation amended and I'll second got a motion by councelor wood King seconded by mayy allers any further discussion just just could we clarify just once again either Andy or Becky where where the where the I I know all money is fungible but but but there's an intent to have this Offset you want you want discuss that it's 225,000 for this settlement and and it will be the money that's allocated for it is the $250,000 we just received on the purad settlement thank you any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none motion carries unanimously we're going to take a quick 10-minute break and then we're going to start our public hearings on the e e e e e e e e e e e e e land use request for the benefit of the public Please be aware that these items are quas judicial in nature our attorney will further explain okay um zoning revision special exceptions and variances are all quazi judicial in nature which requires our public hearing to comply with procedural requirements established inlo of Law and then Our Land Development code quazi judicial proceedings are less formal than proceedings before a circuit court but are more formal than the remainder of our meeting and follow basic standards of due process requiring certain notices application of the correct standards and decisions made on competent substantial evidence presented to the Town Council in written documents or oral testimony the Town Council will evaluate the testimony and information for each item and draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the Land Development code or state law is may be applicable has been satisfied pure speculation or mere opinion not based on competent facts cannot be legally considered by the Town Council in evaluating an agenda item testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area is considered competent evidence by the Florida Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports Etc or testimony based on personal information if you intend to speak please keep this in mind when you come forward please state your name clearly for the record whether or not you have been sworn in and your qualifications or interest in the matter um for purposes of efficienc before beginning any of the public hearings I need to dispose of a few matters um town clerk were all agenda items properly advertised pursuant to the Land Development code if required yes they were um at this time if any Town council member has a conflict of interests that would prohibit them from voting on any of these items please disclose this for the record at this time so that we can assure that we will have a quorum present for review of the items Scott no Karen no I do not have any yeah do not have a conflict of interest done none okay at this time if there is anyone present including the applicant property owner staff who intends to provide testimony in any of the hearings today please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by the town clerk do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth right all parties have been sorn all right this item let's this is me you want me to take this all right variance 202 30162 23 21391 wiin Terrace a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida approving approving with condition or denying variance v202 30162 two variances from LDC table 34-3 to decrease required sidey yard setback by 2.18 ft from the required 10 ft and to decrease required water body setback by 14.39% providing for conflicts of law scrier errors citability and providing for an effective date if any Town council member has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group and entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or observations made of the site John uh got in invited to tend the look over the site but I was not able to at that time uh have received uh emails from himelstein and uh the placed it in Moors okay M uh I have received correspondence for both the applicate applicant and the demonstrators uh I on Saturday uh I went and visited the location spent time with both the applicant and the neighbor who's remonstrating uh toured the property uh extensively and and heard uh both both both sides uh positions and I same exact thing as a vice mayor except I was on Friday same exact thing on Saturday same exact thing um with placs Friday and with the himlin on Saturday I've visited both properties okay Sarah pro has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Meers Beach are there any other IND indviduals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time as the property owner been has the property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from staff they're nodding their head yes go ahead Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Community Development Todd placed owner of 21391 witch and Terrace is requesting a variance from table 34-3 and 34- 638 DC sorry D3 C3 of the LDC for the construction of an elevated pool and screen enclosure the applicant is requesting a variance of 2.18 ft from the 10t side setback required for this 108 ft Wide Property for a side setback of 7.8 Ft the property abuts an unse walled water body which requires a 25 ft rear setback from the mean high water line for any structure the pro proposed pool location would require a variance of 10.6 ft for a rear setback distance of 14.4 ft from mean high water on this 58t deep lot all structures must meet the same setback as the primary residence on non Seawall water lots and this is an elevated pool which was required to meet the primary resident setback also this property is Zone RC and is toward the end of a street in the relatively unique WID and terce neighborhood WID and Terrace properties include a large portion of the right of way within the individual Lots and tend to be less deep than the code requirements due to the narrow Peninsula which makes up the neighborhood many homes and pools in the neighborhood appear to be non-conforming in regard to setbacks the depth of the lot and the ride of way easement along the front portion of the property significantly impact the ability to construct a pool on this property without a reduction in the required water body setback the existing home on the lot has a side setback of 24 1/2 ft the applicant is requesting the proposed pool meet the side setback requirement that was in place on the lot prior to the code Amendment requiring side setbacks of 15% of the lot width the code that is in was in place when they began design of the pool due to several concerns regarding changes to the staff report and clarifying that the request was for an elevated pool and due to neighbor concerns regarding the notice the Town Council was asked that the case be reheard by the LPA since that hearing the applicant has provided a landscape plan and staff included an additional condition that would require the installation of landscaping to buffer the elevated pool from the neighbor the LPA heard the case on February 13th and recommended approval on a five- to-do vote I am available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here okay questions for Sarah yes sir Sarah just a just a kind of a general question uh if I remember correctly when this first came through the staff did not recomend approval and then when it was submitted again it seemed like even a larger proposal then the staff approve uh granted approval I'm just curious as to what your process was as you went through all that so um when I some of the staff reports are not written by myself although I present them um uh when I reviewed the staff report uh I edited the staff report but then when I reviewed and went through the actual process and looked at the Lots I didn't think that the recommendation was was correct um I felt like that it was not really possible to design a pool that would not require setback variances especially considering the lot is only 58t deep so when it went to the LPA it had a staff report that recommended approval but at that hearing and also the morning of the so sorry two two points um at the hearing when I presented I stated that I was recommending approval despite the fact that the staff report had recommended denial and explained why but also at the meeting that morning I recognized that there that may be an elevated pool that they were proposing and the staff had not asked about that so I spoke with the applicant that morning and asked them before the LPA hearing if they were proposing an elevated pool they said that they were so at during the meeting for my presentation I stated that it was an elevated pool and that staff was actually recommending approval based on the criteria of the variances so between the LPA and the Town Council the staff report did change and then when it went to you the Town Council the first time it was being recommended for approval and all the changes had been made to the staff report including that it was an elevated pool and you said that you would prefer that it go back to the LPA to be heard with the staff report corrected with the information that you had in front of you okay John I guess I just want to see if I can get an answer to an email I received from Mr himelstein that the application is not correct oftentimes we don't actually make someone go back and correct the application we have them send us an email that explains what they're they have what they are actually doing if there is a change um the application was not necessarily incorrect they were still going to be have to ask for the variant es whether it was an elevated pool or not because of the way the code is set up for El those uh waterbody Lots so a non seaw walled water body lot requires that any accessory structure meet the same setbacks as the principal structure also Sor I'm sorry a seawall lot would not have that same requirement um so an elevated pool on a seaw walled lot would have a more stringent setback requirement but an elevated pool on a non seaw walled lot has the same uh criteria as an elevated pool does that make sense at this point probably not but that's just me because of what I'm going through personally could you also address his contention that uh there were only two variances when he believes there are four required I'm not sure why he believes there are four okay thank you go ahead Sarah just an additional question and I certainly want to give the applicant and a chance to address this and and and but I'm curious From staff's perspective as you watched the LPA hearing and and I watched it uh as well and I I I I thought I heard and and if I've mischaracterized it incorrectly please forgive me but I'm just trying to understand From staff's perspective how you view this issue so when when the applicant was the attorney for the applicant was asked uh why don't you just do an inground pool is kind of a middle ground compromise uh it was explained that that doing an inground pool would violate or or or it would exceed the the the formula for impervious land on the property and then uh uh and then when asked if an above ground pool is also considered impervious would they said yes but then I guess my question is why wouldn't the above ground pool also violate the impervious the need for a certain amount of impious land versus impervious you know that calculation how do you view that issue and and you are they fine with a an above ground pool but not an inground pool and I mean how do you how do you wrestle with that the staff would not view those differently in regard to perious versus impervious unless they were providing some storm water structure that was was not not something that I'm familiar with typically a building um or concrete on the ground is going to be considered impervious the applicant has provided um in this past week sent a survey that they had done to ensure that they can meet the impervious surface uh coverage I'm not sure on what the difference would be between an at grade versus an elevated pool staff would not typically view those differently that was going to be my question yeah okay thank you mhm counc Woodson I'm just waiting to hear all sides of it I mean I was out there I I listened to both sides I've read through I've listened the LPA so I'm just going to take it all in for right now Scott no I'm good I I as I told everyone I I actually was on the LPA when when this came and I'm going through this with an open mind doing it with no bias and you know there maybe a little bit different things presented so I'm going to look at all angles and do the best I can Sarah has the in watching the LPA meeting there was some talk about one of the members was saying that it was a pool then it was an elevated pool and then there was a cage has the application changed from the beginning as far as the cage and being elevated has that been amended along the process or has it been the same all the way through no typically um and typically staff does not require that they update their application um typically if we have questions about it we go back and forth with the applicant via email if something has to be resubmitted because it's very unclear we'll ask for that um but staff understood what they were doing um they clarified what they were proposing um so staff understands what it is that they're proposing and everything should be correct in the staff report and in the resolution um we did not ask that they updated their application it wasn't that it was not it wasn't that it was incorrect as much as it just didn't include all of the details that we would normally we would want to know that they were proposing an elevator pool we would want to know that they are proposing uh a screen enclosure we understand that now we've amended the staff report we've amended our documents we did not require that they amended their application and we typically don't require that of an applicant So based on what you just said your your recommendation wouldn't change based on the fact that there's a a cage or it's elevated you've known about it since the beginning since the morning of the LPA hearing the first LP yes okay thanks Sarah go ahead Sarah Andor Becky uh I'm built into this evaluation process is the concept of whether something is di Minimus or not I'm curious as to how you define that Andor Becky and and when you when an advice to us as we look to see whether something is considered di Minimus or not what's the what's your definition and and what's the legal definition so um in the first question uh is where it talks about di Minimus it says there are slash are not exceptional or or extraordinary conditions or circumstances that are inherent to the property in question or that the request is is not for a dominous variance under circumstances or conditions where rigid compliance is not essential to protect public policy so there are actually three components to that question um exceptional or extraordinary conditions circumstances that are inherent to the property or that the request is Minimus um in this instance we did consider that this is an ex exceptional uh or extraordinary condition on the property due to the depth of the lot the fact that the right of way is right there um the fact that they had been you know their original plan that they were looking to do was during a time when we were changing uh ordinances so we considered that what they were requesting was fairly di Minimus it was more than that original setback request for the side property line and that it is SE it was in line with the existing house for the rear um so in this instance we were really more looking at the extraordinary or exceptional circumstances but um I don't know that there necessarily a very good way to determine diminus it's a very subjective question and I'll turn to you Becky as you as you as with all of your years of experience as an attorney how do you advise Council to Define that term di Minimus it is extremely subjective and it's done on a caseby casee basis and it's it's one of these things you know it when you see it um if it is not di Minimus it is substantial um so you know depending upon what you are used to looking at if something is pretty darn close to being you know the way it's supposed to be then it's di Minimus if if something is substantially different then it wouldn't be thank you any other questions for Sarah thanks Sarah thank you applicate good morning Robert barant attorney for the record good morning you state your name for the record my name is Todd Playstead the applicant and I'm Kelly Moore let me just give you couple clarifying issues we started talking about this pool in 2021 when uh the variance was only SE I mean the setback was only seven and a half feet at that time we met with staff I want to say we met with staff probably twice we had the plans we had the pool contractor with us and we sat down for I'd say probably an hour and so there was no doubt it was an elevated pool back in 2021 probably my bad for not putting that in the application because I'm the guy that prepared the application and I'll fall on that sword but I assume that everybody knew it was elevated pool based on my contact with staff that that was my mistake uh but there is no difference between an elevated pool in under the ordinances that I'm aware of uh an elevated pool has the same requirements as a non-elevated pool uh so there's nothing really that has to be disclosed about it a I guess you'd say a pool's a pool the other issue is I'm the guy that brought up the issue about the imperious ground because my neighbor down at the North End of the island is getting beat up by the town because he put a paver driveway in they made him tear out two sections of his driveway and build these huge culverts because of the impervious versus non- impervious ground so that had me concerned when I heard the neighbor mention well just put the pool on the ground level well yeah you could probably do that there's probably by the calculation that we've done you could probably do that but if you did that you'd have no room to paver around the pool so that's where the issue comes in and that has to be a separate calculation honestly we've not done that calculation we don't want to do that calculation they do not want a ground level pool uh for various reasons one is the they've already had the water come off the Back Bay twice since Ian so they don't want to be worried about having water intrusion into the pool second of all they want the pool area to be up by their living area so when you come out of their kitchen and living room you come out under the pool deck which means the pool deck hat doesn't have to be as big as it would have to be if it was on the ground level cuz you're just going to have a maybe a 5 Sixt pathway I don't know what it is around the pool they also want it so they can come out of their house and use the pool they don't want to have to go up and down the stairs uh to get food or beverages or whatever they're going to do uh use the facilities because you can't have anything on ground level so they wanted this elevated pool to be extend out to the part as part of their house we've spoken I spoke to the neighbors right after the LPA meeting we had a I thought we had a pretty good conversation I understand their position they have a garage apartment next door that has two decks but the decks kind of Veer out one deck goes over the the Back Bay and the other deck goes over the front area this is a very unique Street if you've been down it you know that there's water on both sides of the street and you noticed if you were driving down the street that most of the houses have a seven and a half setback I mean they're right on top of each other which is common Fort Mars Beach I mean this property is very valuable people don't buy 10 acres and build a house on it or two acres you you basically take what you can get so all the houses are on top of each other s and a half 7 and a half you go down the street to their house the house is a perfect fit for this pool right now they're looking at the side of the neighbor's house so they see the side if they sit on this porch they got to look this way to see the side of the neighbor's house they're looking into the neighbor's house right now cuz that's where his living area and his kitchen is if you put the the pool in and you put the screen enclosure in the vegetation you're having the same view there's nothing blocked but now you're looking at vegetation and a screen enclosure which to me is much more aesthetically pleasing to the eye than just looking at the back of somebody's house they're not blocking off anything any views of the Back Bay which by the way there's no right to view I mean in Florida you people build all over the place you buy a I've seen people buy a condo here on the beach and then have a new condo put up right in front of it there's nothing you can do about that that's that's just the way it is in Florida you buy knowing that something could happen so they're not trying to block anything and I and I know you've all been out there so I'm not going to bore you I'm going to let the applicant present their case because I think they do it much better than I do before you walk away I just got a quick question for you when I met with you guys and we were talking about it you'd made you you'd said that the pool was someone else's design when you mentioned you had talked to staff before the I guess my question is was the pool design that you were looking at and talking at the staff was it once they took ownership of the house or before they took ownership of the house I believe they had the ownership of the house but the pool design I think was done before they bought the house but I'm not positive so your conversations with staff or with the design after they were the owners of the house after they were the owners of the house at least that's the best of my recollection okay so it might have been 2022 I'm I'm not sure but I know they they were the owners okay yeah because I know because they were there with me when we talked to staff okay go ahead hang my traffic keeper doesn't help figure it out here now I got the giggles I'm sorry good morning uh my name is Kelly Moore uh Todd and I reside at 21391 woodon Terrace um as thankful as we are for this opportunity to talk to you today about our pool and asking for the variant to be granted to our family I wholeheartedly on behalf of our family apologize how much time this has taken up on your agenda after sitting here for the last two hours and listening to the huge issues on this island it I just feel like this is just so little compared to the big things that you are trying to solve and this town is so blessed and lucky to have passionate people not only on this committee but on the other committees that I have started to become kind of a groupy online and watch every everybody it's very interesting intriguing but timec consuming and you have to be a very special person to take this spot so with that said um yep no we're good by the way I won't be using every page in that booklet so I didn't mean to intimidate you I am a former school teacher so uh the first time we saw you we didn't have anything so I thought best to be prepared and didn't know who was actually going to come out to the land and who wasn't and it gives people that are out there in TV Land a chance to see too Todd considers himself part Minnesotan and part Floridian as he's been back and forth since the 70s to his family's condo in Bonito Bonita Springs which he has shared throughout the years with his three siblings as a couple Todd and I fell in love with the town of Fort Meers Beach so in 2021 we purchased our dream home on woodon Terrace also known as Flamingo Harbor it's a small HOA in a private gated area on the south end of Fort Meers Beach right there on that slide you can see a little red star that's the location of our home and the white arrows show Roberts a property with four buildings two docks a boat house and seven plus observation decks our HOA is located on a narrow Peninsula which includes four homes close in proximity with each other with inconsistent property lines non-conforming setbacks varying house layouts with pool areas and native trees creating natural Border Lines between each of the homes 12 out of 14 of the homes in the HOA have pools in May of 2021 that is when we purchase our home with an elevated blueprint pool plan given to us by the prior owners we hired a pool company we hired Robert Brandt as our attorney to assist us with the legalities of obtaining a variance as this is our very first pool wanted to make sure we did it right and needed his help with the applications and then we shared our our uh pool blueprint plan with both of our neighbors there's two things that we didn't foresee in 2021 after purchasing our home a our pool company would have a very difficult time getting materials in for our proposed pool due to the covid related delays and B one neighbor would be very excited for us and one would not um approximately 3 months after we purchased our home and shared our blueprints with both of our neighbors Robert sent us an email in August of 2021 stating he was not in favor of our proposed pool plan but was thrilled to have us as neighbors he also stated did his specialty over 30 years was in spatial design for interior and exteriors adding we would be shocked and disappointed with how we utilized the space shown on the blueprint on our property Todd has also owned his business for over 30 years in Minnesota specializing in outdoor living areas his Crea his Creative Vision for our wigent Terrace home including adding window sliding doors that open up from our kitchen dining area out to our small existing deck um would extend our living area from inside to outside Todd's ability to visualize how to make something so beautiful and complimentary of our existing living areas is truly amazing in 2022 hurricane Ian directly hit Fort Meers beach in 2023 we tried to move forward with our pool area plans with the town but our land property survey had expired so we had another delay and paid for another one to be completed so we could move forward I think it's also important again to share that the setbacks have been changed twice since we started this process today it's a 10-ft sidey yard setback when we started this process it was a 7 and A2 foot sidey yard setback with a team of experts and professionals through this whole experience we have hired Florida licensed contractors submitted permits as required and follow due process with every protocol and procedure required by the town of Fort Meers Beach the first time we met with the LPA committee on Tuesday December 19th they voted unanimously in a 7 to zero vote in favor us favor of us to move on to the city council we met with you the city council on Monday January 8th and we were asked to go back in front of the LPA for these three reasons after our first LPA meeting and before we had our first meeting with you the city council Todd noticed the pool screen enclosure was not on the application reached out to Sarah immediately and we thought this is what we thought a setback was a setback whether it was a pool or a pool with a screen enclosure this was our mistake it's our first pool we have no clue but as a result we went back to the LPA requesting to add that screen and enclosure to our application number to Robert never showed up at the lp LPA meeting we had that day so we thought he actually had a change of heart over the years as our neighbors since we'd all been through so much together and we pulled together as an HOA helping each other out to our surprise he showed up to the city council meeting on that day with his rental property manager Judy both clearly upset and sharing numerous opinions and concerns we were stunned and caught off guard by some of their comments and accusations Robert stated he had never received a notification of the LPA meeting but Sarah found that on record that it was sent out on the 8th of December but the attorney for the town acknowledged that those public meeting notices are sent out to neighbors as a courtesy not a requirement but regard regardless it was agreed upon that Robert should have the opportunity to speak to the LPA committee members about his concerns and number three lastly the city council suggested we meet with Robert and step prior to our second LPA meeting so we did we met with Robert three times with Steph joining us on the last visit prior to our meeting and Walkabout with Robert and Steph Tod placed story polls in the proposed area to show them where the pool would be located so we could give them further clarification to issues that were either unclear or confusing to them we listened to their concerns we answered all of their questions and we walked around our property and even walked up to their guest house um not guest all sorry their living area and onto their Bayside deck and onto their golfside deck um then that was outside of their living quarters above that garage but the himlin and Todd I we openly shared what we were both willing to compromise and what we are both not willing to compromise and went so far is to say why following those meetings more correspondents took place through our attorneys and of course we made our second appearance in front of the LPA committee members for those that don't know it uh out there that it was a 5 to2 vote of approval um Madame chair Anita was a yes Jane was a yes Don was a yes James was a yes Scott was a yes Patrick was a no Douglas was a no and I think it's good to address the Nos and why so we can find out whether we will get this granted so addressing Patrick's NOS Patrick inquired whether the elevated pool with pool decking was perious or impervious further inquiring whether inground pools and elevated pools are both impervious decking is perious as it obviously allows water to pass through it but both INR and elevated pools are both impervious noting with our proposed improvements we are below the 67% requirement of the town of Fort Meers Beach if we did locate the pool on the ground we would need to pour additional concrete for a deck on that lower level versus utilizing our existing deck and partially because it's our carport we have three carports down there so it's next to our seos and our our truck and our Jeep um um Patrick wanted to confirm if Robert was correct when he stated we did not meet our impervious service coverage he also asked whether Robert's easement through our driveway was included the calcul ation and I did put that in your little packet on the side um is from lantech and total impervious is 6324 Robert does have a 15t easement across our 20ft driveway and yes that easement was included in the calculations in including the proposed improvements Sarah also informed us this issue of impervious service service coverage would be addressed if we were to proceed on to permitting but to put the issue to rest we wanted to share that we do indeed meet that requirement Patrick then addressed Robert's concern about emergency access stating and he stated back uh it is not the himlin or the play's responsibility to worry about Vehicles turning around on our properties and I looked it up to legally and that's exactly what it says they know what they're doing Patrick was concerned about the rear setback of our pool area being too close to the water in actuality our proposed pool area is no closer to the water than our existing home Patrick said he said we would obstruct the himlin view from one out of two of their uh garage deck areas but for clarification he was referring to the Bayside view that's near the driveway not the Gulf side view deck Robert's property is at the end of the peninsula so we're his only neighbor with water surrounding his property on three different sides without a doubt he has the best views in the HOA Patrick was talking about a very small area on a humongous property um the garage with their living area above was strategically built um angled to enjoy both sides of the water it's actually angled the whole houses or that garages Patrick stated he was not happy um with us because he felt we mischaracterize our application because we stated that the only thing they have next door to where our proposed pool deck will be located as storage and garbage um in our defense the himlin are not in Florida very often so in our opinion so we responded from what we have personally observed oursel also we've never been invited to see what was above their two vehicle garage until after the city council meeting so I didn't even know what was up there we have never seen them on their garage decks until after Robert showed up at city council meeting now we see them up there all the time on our rental website or on their rental website it actually States it's a two vehicle garage with personal storage so that's where we got the information it's right there never stating it's a living quarters or an apartment the owner stay in whether there's renters there or not we don't rent so we're not familiar with that um we're not against renting at all but it's just something we just don't know a lot about um they refer to that ground level side garage door as a garbage door to us um and they do store their garbage outside and inside of that two vehicle garage right next to the proposed pool area we absolutely want you to know we don't mind and have never ever complained about it but we did answer the questions honestly on the application we felt absolutely terrible and bad that he thought that we were mischaracterizing it we invited the whole city council to come over to our house we want to be transparent and it was also an opport to share our beautiful um property house our vision and our blueprints Robert gave Patrick a pool plan and he was concerned about the part labeled outdoor kitchen we already Grill on our existing deck so of course we plan to grill in our proposed pool area there's no change there we actually plan to pass the food through a slider window from our kitchen to the outdoor grill area with a counter to serve snacks and food it's not I want to be clear it's not a fancy crazy elaborate outdoor kitchen that you would see like on Food Network station so when it says outdoor kitchen that's a I guess a little misleading uh Patrick addressed our next door neighbor who has an elevated pool as well yes they have an elevated pool no we don't have a problem with it each of the homes are different and trying to compare each of our homes in this HOA would be extremely misleading to say we're all the same we're not besides our next our neighbor with the elevated pool does not block our view at all even though their pool deck area is 4 feet taller than our deck and it sticks out closer to or it's closer to the gulf the water side of our house so they they are closer to it waterline stuff I guess um our neighbor's elevated pool is 12T tall with no landscape screening our elevated pool would be 8 and 1/2 ft tall but we plan to add mature trees on our border for privacy using landscape screening the only reason we haven't done it thus far as we wanted we really we really thought we were we we wanted a pool we thought we're going to have a pool um didn't realize this is what it was going to be about but we had always planned to do that because our windows are exposed so if you're getting coffee in the morning for example you can't really wear your pajamas or a robe on because they can see right through um right there across so um LPA member Doug um Doug Doug's final statement was I tend to agree with Patrick and that was it Madame chair Anita um voted yes she said what bothers me is we are only talking about a tiny portion of Robert's land the garage apartment not his entire piece of property with spectacular views all around she went on to State I do not like the idea of elevated pools in fact I ran for conso in 2014 because of elevated pools however in this particular neighborhood it doesn't impact anyone to be more specific she added I don't like elevated pools on a stero for example next to junk canoes I don't have a a problem with the elevated pool the placs are proposing to build then Madame chair addressed Patrick's opinion that our application and presentation was not laid out properly and how he said we are mischaracterizing our application she said I disagree with you Patrick then um council member Don suth also second his opinion and then she continu continued on stating that we what we presented was consistent with regulations Vice chair Jane voted yes adding that she votes yes with conditions of landscape screening Jane said stated the Himes adverti their living quarters areas of their property on tripower vacation rentals.com the area above the garage is separate from the main house and is for personal storage she went on in black and white I read it if the place says didn't put in a pool and chose to put up Landscaping 15 ft up in the air the place that have the right to privacy on their own property and their neighbors do not have the right to view the through their property she continued on stating cement blocks for elevated pool would be this the the cement block for the elevated pool would be the same exact level and height as both the himlin and play dead decks the proposed elevated pool itself doesn't have any height or structure therefore the himlin would be able to see through only if we don't have landscape that high not only that but our pool is go but their pool is going to be forward will not be sorry their pool will not be be be forward of their property is trying to get exact word she said adding there is 60 fet between the play said's main home and Robert's main home LPA member Don suth voted yes Don and his wife were actually the prior owners of 21391 wood and Terrace our home for 5 years Don is still friends with Robert himelstein he stated the uh other nextdoor neighbor who has the elevated pool does have a pool that goes past our home however from his experience when he lived there he testified he could see over their pool from our walkway deck windows on that side of the house and that is true he also noted that the himine property line has a hedge that is approximately the same height as our proposed pool height so they will be able to see over a proposed pool stating that the top of Robert's hedge is the same height as the bottom of Robert's deck 8 and 1/2 ft High Don confirmed that he had sat on the garage decks above with Robert together he said never once did the two of them ever turn their chairs to face our house when sitting outside on Robert's Gulfside deck Don testified that the Gulfside deck did not impede The him's View as I stated before he continued to State the other deck was angled toward the driveway which is the Bayside view where the sunrises one corner of the Bayside deck looks into our kitchen and dining area Don suggested that small part might be partially blocked if we were to have a screened in pool enclosure LPA member Jim voted yes Jim stated that the town of Fort Meers Beach doesn't typically regulate residential Landscaping as confirmed by our HOA letter that we received owners can put barrier type Landscaping screening up which could affect the view from Robert and Steph's front driveway Bayside deck above the garage he also stated he lives next door to a neighbor who has an elevated pool with ureas that are taller than the pool in the pool cage our neighbors have those too so he knows Landscaping can provide adequate screening and privacy for both of us as it has for his neighbor and his family he also noted there were no impervious surface calculations on our application but Sarah informed him that we had not turned in in anything yet because we weren't required to at that point um former LPA member Scott voted yes and no comments were issued on the final thoughts um see Todd and I and our children frequent our Fort Meers beach home approximately every 2 to three weeks offseason and we winter here from what we have experienced since 2021 is Robert tandyman Jeff his contractors and his renters frequent the house more than Robert and his family we do not rent our home it's a home not a rental house but we want to personally thank those of you on the city council board who are able to take time out of your busy schedule to firsthand see and walk our property viewing it for your own eyes and we're glad to hear that you're you're passed hip surgery Todd had back surgery within a month so we understand but make sure you behave yourself um we know how incredibly blessed we are to call this our home we hope you will grant our variances and the biggest takeaway that we've had from this process is making sure we have proper documentation to ask people to come out and see it for thems to have all the stamps and certifications and also we know that Landscaping will provide privacy and enjoyment for both of our families and that's the end goal is that we can find happiness and all this in this beautiful place that we call home at this time we are open to discussion and to answer any questions you might have quick question for you okay who's Bob Carlin oh sorry Bob Carlin is our HOA um uh president he was the uh the president when we first reach out to him as an email and he continues to be the HOA president okay so he States for our association docs the only construction requiring formal approval is new home construction correct so that said said you're clear to proceed the other question I have just to make sure I heard it correctly you said on this survey here that the 15 foot easement with the pavers in there is included in your impervious calculations it is and it would be anyway wouldn't it Sarah if it was okay so that's already been figured into this 63% correct okay questions for the applicant joh done Vice M I was wondering if you have the I know you're G us kind of the abbreviated packet but do you have all the slides in your PowerPoint you know where that blue paper comes into play I have all of them up through Page 30 you have page 13 which one can you go to page 13 I sure can there you go thank you just more of a legal question in terms of the parameters and what can be appropriately considered Becky if you take a look at that I don't know if you could see it behind you but I'm sorry you got one over here okay so so obviously you've got a situation where you have I don't know if this is all one property but you've got them they're living in four it's all one property they're living in four and they're renting out one two and three or I don't know if that's all together for a rental I guess my question is and they have obviously every right to rent out part of their their home uh I guess my question is and then in this PowerPoint they show the various decks on two three and one that obviously if they're not living there they can't utilize the renter can utilize them but they can't live there in other words are we allowed to consider what they might be able to see if they chose not to rent the home that AB buts the the property they're actually living on is that is that germine to the case I guess is my point is are the are the various views from the rental property next door that they don't live in that they own but don't live in is that germine to to this conversation it's it honestly that is a subjective thing you can or you you don't need to um what y'all look at what y'all think is important um is based on your experience your life experiences y'all were elected because you're the representatives of the people of the town so if if you think yeah I'm just trying to get it's important no and I appreciate the the flexibility that you're giv there's no legal just in case this were to go to court and this is obviously now part of the official record I just wanted to get a legal ruling as to whether that's Germain or not and it sounds like that's a bit subjective that that was my question it is you could think that it's important or you could think that it's not thank you that was my question okay we just want to pull ion I understand I understand just trying to understand the parameters of what we allowed and not allowed to look at okay thank you yeah um this is very thorough presentation I appreciate that and I don't have any questions at this time thank you Scott I do not um the one other question I have just to make sure that I'm clear you've got the jagged deck right in the back they're not the deck doesn't go all the way out there's one that goes out further on the very back of the house right I know what you're talking about yeah there's so the pool is going to be it's the setback according to what I'm seeing is going to be to that first deck not the second one that goes out y okay if I could Mr Mayor the U when we talked about this on Saturday I'm still wrestling with the compromise opportunity here and and and if you could just State for the record your your concerns about an inground pool versus an above ground pool and and why an in ground pool would not be practical well I think we you're all out at the house and you can tell that we don't have any living quarters in the bottom you know there are some of our neighbors that have inground pool but they have living quarters downstairs and they can kind of utilize the deck and everything to to see that for our in ground pool if we were to do that that ours is more of a garage and more Industrial Area down there we'd have to pour concrete we'd be adding more uh imperious surface around to get a deck down there um we are trying to create an extension of our living area you know uh be able to walk out to the grill and back into the kitchen that type of thing um and so it um utilizing the Decks that are already in place we don't have to add anything else the pool of butts up to it um and then we're able to use that uh that area if you will as the as the pool deck and then the view obviously from the pool area you know we can see over the mangr if we were in the if we were down below uh we're in the mangroves and and have a you know 6-ft Mangrove blocking The View um and you can't you can't get a permit to trim those M Groves is that correct we can go to six feet six feet y I just wonder because the whole island obviously is having to elevate their properties now and they'll all be in the same situation that you're in that they'll have to go down if they decide to have a pool or if their pool's in ground they're going to have to go down steps to utilize their pool I'm just trying to understand I mean that seems to be a trend for the I think most those people can design their homes around that with staircases everything we have to pull the staircase out so we'd have to go out and around you know in order to drop the pool right there because that staircase would have to be removed um we um um oh I forgot my train of thought here but uh yeah I just think the enjoyment of it you know and I appreciate that he said well this is my uh you know compromise you can have it on the ground but with a 10- foot cage on top and well it just I mean it would just be a I mean would I don't think he would do it you know so I don't see that as much of a comp compromise that I just don't see that that was would even be complimentary to the house so thank you Todd Todd before we go off real quick um was there ever you said there was there's no living quarters there was no was there living quarters down there before the storm it didn't look like it when I was there carport with the other side of the garage yeah and in the spirit of compromise I know I talked to you about it and talking with your your neighbors they had shared some concerns with you know obviously what we all know but also with the waterfall and with the fight things being on that side close to the Landscaping is that something I know you said this wasn't your design it was someone else's but is that something should this get approved you'd be willing to look at to to be as best neighbor as you could yeah you know that's uh the the fire um bowls that were in the first plan that we we shared with you and I think it's somewhere in the packet here um those aren't available anymore those are just an LED light uh type thing uh the waterfall I mean a lot of the Florida pools have like little fall little little waterfalls a little feature to kind of give that soothing uh 16 Ines just you yeah so we um we actually uh you know we were not going to have fire in there I mean um we actually looked out last night and in their pool area they've got a huge fire in there so I mean uh you can see it right from our our window um I don't know it's not um could be a giant all all right I appre you answered my question okay all right thank you thanks anybody else actually I do have one question now that I think about it so in the packet it shows different Landscaping um but I and maybe I am not remembering this correctly but I thought you said that you would that you had thought to change out some of those trees and bushes and do more Eureka Palms for immediate coverage and that type of thing but I don't see that well we in that landscape design I think uh as one of our conditions we have to we have to uh um submit a landscape plan to the city which which we have um an idea but I also told Robert that if you know at one time we were talking about bamboo when we first he and he said no that's very evasive okay you know it's good to know uh we've talked about other things and we'd love to you know be able to share with him what we're doing so that you know we both have to look at it so um eurekka are widely used if you page through those up and down our street darn near every single one of them has Eureka walls there right next to their pools same exact thing we're trying to do so and we just put together that Landscaping thing because to talk about is one thing actually see that you know what I mean it's not going to impede on their their private Acy orever noise orever just wanted to show what it looked like by day and by night so that's very flexible we just wanted to address something okay thank you thank you before we go to public comment real quick Sarah a question for you is there any stipulation as far as height when it comes to landscaping or landscape buffers I don't believe so uh we had looked at uh something along those lines regarding setbacks and um solid Landscaping walls when we were looking at fences several years back I can double check uh but I feel like we may not have adopted those okay are there any members of the public who wish to comment we're going to open up public comment so are there any members of the public that wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in and I believe we have several of them so if everyone would please be cognizant of the three minutes U there's a lot of people that want to speak so when you hear Madame Clerk's buzzer go off that's your alert that your three three minutes is up first up is Sarah Spectre after Miss Spectre is Steven Shaws good morning morning excuse me I'm losing my voice is still morning no we're still morning yes uh before I begin may I please approach you want to pull that mic yeah just hold off and Sir she gives us y thank you appreciate it thank you you thank you good morning my name is Sarah Spectre and I'm here on behalf of himelstein Associates LLC the owners of 21 381 WID and Terrace immediately adjacent to the property that is the subject of the variance request while the applicant has shared with you the request they would like to make it is not the request they made rather there are several deficiencies and inaccuracies in the request that render it insufficient for purposes of approval those deficiencies and inaccuracies listed on page two of the presentation before you can be summarized as follows one the application does not disclose that there are in fact restrictions against the property number two the condominium plaque created access to the properties via roadway easement had this roadway been taken into account the applicant would also need a front setback variance three the request does not include any reference to the pool being raised and screened with a cage nor does it mention any amities other than the pool number four no relief is being sought from section 34- 11176 so only an atg grade pool can be approved number five though the applicant has indicated that they would not have needed a side setback variance if they had constructed the pool when they originally purchased the home the side setback was set at 10 ft 3 months before they purchased their property number six this was before you previously and was sent back to the LPA to among other reasons allow for a discussion with the neighbor to see if a compromise could be reached though we have reached out both directly and through Council the applicant has been unwilling to compromise in addition to the deficiencies and inaccuracies the request does not meet three of the five variance criteria number one the request is not a DI Minimus request the definition of di Minimus that's found in your code is found on page four of the presentation and pictures demonstrating the failure to meet this are found in Pages 5 through 7 in short the pool which will only be the second raised pool in the neighborhood and the first raised pool with a cage will consume the remainder of the applicant's property two the request is not the minimum that can be made and it will certainly create an unreasonable burden on the adjacent property a smaller acrade pool with no page no cage is certainly an option as mentioned previously my clients have offered several of these Alternatives none of which the applicant has been receptive to three the granting of the variants will be injurious to the neighborhood and detrimental to the public welfare pictures on previous slides and those found on page 10 demonstrate how narrow the access to the property is and how the addition of the pool will close off the last spot provided for vehicle turnaround the road is so narrow that the mailboxes for the last three homes have been clustered before in Arrow so the postal carrier does not have to maneuver in the tight space with the addition of the pool the postal carrier will not be the only vehicle having difficulty most importantly it will be nearly impossible for emergency vehicles to enter and exit these properties given the deficiencies in the application the fact that the request does not meet three of the five variants criteria we respectfully request that the council not approve the variance before you today yes can I make one additional comment thank you I I just wanted to comment I know a lot of my comments were focused on the deficiencies in the application I'm not sure if the application is not required to be updated how the public is supposed to know what the request is the only way that I found out that it was raised was by looking at the pool permit and nothing showed that I could not find anything that showed the cage when looking at the permit application so okay I just wanted to add that on there so thank you very much thank you Sarah Stephen Shaws and following Mr Shaws is Scott Simmons good morning uh Steve schless I'm a professional surveyor um have a couple handouts here up please sure you have them Sten can you just pull the mic up so we can hear you a little better sorry about that um you have copies of both the survey and the site plan a couple things I'd like to go I've got the survey for sure okay um and I've got what I believe is the site plan that was handed out it's a good point are you going to be are you going to be testifying as an expert if so you need to be you need to go through the process not sworn in we just have to recognize him as an expert well you need to present your and then they'll vote um my qualification oh gotta be up with the mic please thanks Florida professional surveyor number license number 6419 State of Florida I've lived in Lee County for been since 1988 worked on the beach um for a lot of years uh whatever qualifications should I have okay then the motion would be to qualify him as an expert survey or surveyor correct is there a motion to accept Mr Shaws as an expert surveyor so moved second got a motion by councelor King second by councelor Safford any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I OS here again go ahead sir super thank you very much now you can start the clock um a couple things this parcel is according to the survey is in flood zone V12 velocity Zone 12 and we know what we do with main structures is we Elevate them on peers or piles or breakway walls or flooding events a raised pool would create resistance for flood waters and waves uh the same way a house would do right so I think you know raising the pool with solid block walls would cause an issue with a scouring and flooding just like the event that we just had right that's what happened when we look and we saw what happened when the flood waters come in they're going to find an an Avenue to go around and they scour around the side so a raised pool could cause problems that way another issue is the safety issue on this parcel there not a lot of room I'm I'm sorry um you were you were deemed an expert surveyor you're testifying it sounds like as an engineer um are you how about this it the the parcel is in a velocity Z Zone 12 V12 okay that I can attest to right and the reason why we have building requirements for for flood zones is to prevent destruction to the structure and the and the areas around that so I think what Becky's trying to get at is you're you're an expert surveyor but are you an exert Builder do yous for I2 right can say the parcels in a V12 um also as far as the survey goes I'm not exactly sure sure that the area calculation of the property was corre was done appropriately um and because I have a copy of the Subdivision plat here right and if we look at the survey the survey States in one area that one of the property Corners lies out in the water okay what will be the southeast Corner shows here the property Corner lies in the water copies of that does he have copies of that for you guys what he's talking about I need one nobody has that okay it's on the site plan also but I have copies of the survey here if you guys want if I can hand that out okay yeah I've got this one got it is what you handed out different sir copies of different oh it's the same it to me it looks exactly the same I don't see okay I got this so I'm good okay I just thinking he had some different we need a copy for the record on oh sure was going survey or site plan or both they should have been in the application actually this just looks like a smaller version of that got it oh there are different those little bit this one here this is that PO going acoss where this shows pool and DEP if you have an extra copy surve it thank you yes so the platted lot does not appear the same as what's on the survey and I get here because I have a question on what the total area of the lot was calculated on the plat defines unit M1 as running closely along the top of Bank not the edge of water mean high water is the condominium subdivision property line the parcel property line appears on the plant to run along the top of Bank of the development not the mean high water the surveys don't show The Limited common element between the developed area or the top of bank and a mean high water plats here not sure how to show it there's no cameras here but I can pass it around if you want very simply well it's going to be difficult to if you can explain it we're not going to be able to hear hear your commentary when you're so the like I said the the the this survey shows the property line to be out on the edge of water that is not the way the plant subdivided the lot there was actually a portion of property that's homeowners association property a limited common element between the property line and a mean high water that's not shown on this on the survey this way my question is how do they come up with the square footage of the parcel to use their impervious area calculations it does not appear that the property on the survey is shown per the plat all right thank you sir okay anybody like to see this so it's a graphically shown on the Subdivision plat itself yeah you you can pass it around you see any objection with that no he needs to leave it here then sure yeah come on I just need to see it I don't I don't need to yeah thanks M there's no we can't can't leave the paper yeah you want me to call the next one yes please okay next up is Scott Simmons and after Mr Simmons is Judy Aria afternoon Scott morning name Scott Simmons um I am an appraiser I also oversee all the residential work at Maxwell hendrian Simmons um I don't know if you ask the same questions but I am qualified as an expert witness in the 20th judicial circuit regarding real property valuation as well as other municipalities throughout the country um I want to say first of all I'm also honored to be with youall here this morning this is the first of these meetings since Hurrican in that I've been present for and uh uh I'm really honored to be here with you all um I was first contacted by Mr Robert himelstein a few weeks ago regarding the proposed improvements to the property at 21391 R wdon terce uh he wanted to engage with us to complete a uh value impact study to document any potential damages uh to his property as a result of these uh this proposed construction I informed him that a value impact study would require substantially more time than he had requested um oftentimes these things take two to five months to complete and obviously within a few weeks developing conclusions complete conclusions would not be possible however I did agree to come here and kind of share some of our preliminary analysis based on our work with similar type projects uh as well as my personal inspection of the property and looking through the plans that he provided uh much of our Consulting work and some of our valuation assignments involves studying issues of value impact and forensic valuation for the purpose of determining diminution I've also served as an expert witness as I previously mentioned regarding these issues these issues are always heavily nuanced and there are many variables that influence the impact to a property in terms of value and marketability that have to be considered when dealing with any kind of infringement whether it be setbacks or other after I have reviewed these documents and visited the property I have little doubt that there would be some value impact adverse value impact to both the market value as well as the marketability of the property these impacts would be the result of altered view corridors as well as privacy Andor light and noise disturbance there would also potentially be some level of issue regarding property access um but again that's more along the lines of of uh uh legal disputes I want to say clearly I am an expert in the value and marketability impacts I do not have any intention to reach a conclusion on uh disputed issues regarding the law or any kind of uh regulations as it pertains to Fort Meers Beach um I I would say that regarding view cord ORS our firm has conducted a number of impact studies uh regarding that issue while these studies indicate a range uh of anywhere from 1 and 1.2% to 20% I'm sorry finish up anywhere from 1 and a half to 20% view corridors or most most similar from jobs that we have done would be between 4 and 8% of the total property value similarly uh regarding the issue of light and noise disturbance we have recently completed an assignment that of similar situation that indicated a 3.4% decrease in the total market value of the property in that situation I would I would note that that was a far less intrusive infringement uh I would simply conclude by saying in my opinion professional opinion there would be some impact to the marketability and the market value of the property as a result of these improvements okay thank you thanks next up is Judy hadia after judia is Steven himelstein hello Judy hello if I can get this down here uh Judy hadia uh 400 band Road and I own uh Tri power vacation rentals and I I do have a handout don't you hand it to Frankie you mind Frankie and then you can continue on we can just hand them down [Music] take so it was pointed out out that there are 12 uh swimming pools in the street and one is elevated I just want to say this about the elevated pool that it's on the water side it's not at the side of the house or you know between the neighbors so there is a difference the other thing is and and I don't exactly remember uh the exact footage but I understand an elevated pool can be ated for 4 or 4 and 1/2 ft might be 4 and 1/2 ft and I I don't think it was pointed out how much this pool will be elevated but I understand it will be elevated for 8 and 1/2 ft which is makes quite a bit of difference the other thing is that they will have a cage that goes up to the top of the house that this was not pointed out either so what you have here is an elevated pool a cage that goes at the top of the house you have a um Fountain you have a spa how tub uh an outdoor kitchen and it's elevated because they really don't want to go downstairs to the pool and they find it inconvenient to um make that area into a ground level pool so you know this makes it you know the whole elevation and the pool it becomes a structure not just a pool on a ground it's a structure and it is quite invasive for the Neighbors so you know it might be uh what is it uh 2.18 ft that they're coming the that they want the variance on the side but that's a lot it's a lot when you have an elevated pool that's 8 and 1/2 ft and then you have a structure that goes to the top of your house and you've got a a fountain a kitchen a spa and everything else and it goes out to the water intruding what was that 15 15 something feet so it it really blocks of view there's going to be no you can't tell me that they're having this pool putting all this money into this pool and then they're not going to be using it it'll be used intently and and really it seems though it's built for entertainment so I think it'll be quite intrusive and and the other thing is that if you have a variance if you're going to give a variance toward a neighbor if that neighbor objects you got to listen to that because that variance is is intruding and those setbacks are for a reason so right I guess that's it thank you Judy I heard the [Laughter] buzzer after Mr himelstein will be Jeff Walker can I pass this out real quick hand it to Frankie he'll hand him up this goes with my uh my speech you kind of have to follow a little bit identify yourself please my name is Stephan himelstein I'm Robert and Stephanie's son um I'm taking over our businesses operations in New Jersey allowing my dad to move down here and become a full-time resident and open our business which was washed out by Hurricane Ian we got our Co 5 days before the storm um I'm here today because I'm really really concerned about this application and how it affects my family's property I want to talk today about the staff report and we have questions about how and why it changed I have two packets for each of you the first packet is the staff report from the LPA hearing on December 19th with a staff recommendation of denial the second report the second packet is the report from the Town Council hearing on January 8th with staff recommendation of approval please note that each packet is shaded and redlined to show the words that differ between the reports to give some context Sarah prop said at the LPA hearing on December 19th that after she re-reviewed the staff report she would like to change the staff position to a recommendation of approval for the water body setback variance request she said the depth of the lot and the Redway easement along the front portion of the property significantly impact the ability to construct a pool in the property without a reduction in the required water body setback this statement did not address the side variance request and because the RightWay easement is on the opposite side of the property from the required water body setback we would understand reducing the water body setback if the pool was on the back of the house this is on the side we don't understand how a re-review of the staff report could have changed the staff's position from recommending a denial to recommending an approval please flip to page three of the staff report from the December 19th LPA hearing which recommends denial the Shaded area states that there are no extraordinary conditions and the variance is not Dom Minimus we heard earlier that the idea of Dom Minimus is subjective later you'll see that that changed it says the applicant has a choice to construct a smaller pool It also says the request as a result of app actions taken by the applicant um that third thing that I handed out shows you that the setbacks were 10 ft before the applicant approached the city about the pool it also says the requests as a result of actions taken by the applicant and once again says the applicant could reduce the size of the pool to meet the variant requests this is not the minimum possible request it says that directly in the staff report finally the report says the circumstances leading to the variance are result of a design choice and subjective in nature we could not agree more the applicant is trying to put a very large addition of 500 foot Edition with a three-story screen cage on top in an area they do not have the space hence why they need the variances now let me please bring to your attention the staff report from the January 8th council meeting please flip to page two of the document you will see the only two changes where now the report mentions the pool is elevated and there is a screen enclosure very little changed except those two are the only changes made please flip the page to the findings from the January 8th packet note the Shaded sections and how all of the findings have now changed the report says that there are extraordinary conditions and the variance is diminus how can this be the case before it wasn't but now the pool is elevated and has a screen cage it is considered di Minimus it says the right away within the property makes the depth of the lot fairly restrictive the applicant is building right up to possibly even past the right of way within the property by covering our driveway post we don't see how this applies I'll finish up real quick the new staff report also says the applicant began the design when the setbacks were 7 half ft this is not the case furthermore findings under BNC are now drastically different from the first staff report now claiming that this is in fact the minimum variance before it was not and before it did not have a screen cage or was it elevated uh finally staff report claims it will not be injured to the neighborhood which we entirely disagree with it will injure our property's entrance as well as make the applicants unable to turn a car around in their own property which you'll hear about later we would greatly appreciate answers as to why the staff's recommendation changed as well as all of the findings in the staff report the way we see it is that the applicants were originally asking for something smaller staff recommended denial then the pool became raised with a screen cage they were asking for more and now they recommend approval all right answers will be greatly appreciated thank you thank you Jeff Walker and after Mr Walker is Donna Pelini alderman good morning my name is Jeff Walker we got some handouts coming for you um I'm here to to uh explain the impact of the um pool and how it's going to affect the traffic pattern uh parking and so forth in that area uh right now you can see a picture where they they have to use our property to turn around uh with a tra trailer and using the area where their pool is going to be constructed uh is going to greatly uh uh affect how Vehicles construction vehicles other their visitors uh are going to be able to move they're they're going to want to use our property to be able to turn around and go go back out parking is also an issue um whereas you know they have construction vehicles they're going to have guests other people parking there at times uh Todd has had his boat parked there which greatly uh restricts access to the property if there was an emergency vehicle a fir Tru that needed to get to that property it it would really significantly hurt that property uh trying to get there to to you know rescue somebody that's going to be a extreme big issue now having that pool there just makes that so much worse than it was um that's what I'm looking at that's what I'm my uh concern is right now the other page I have is another uh previous owner uh attest to the uh what what the problem with has been with that Narrow Street anyhow uh this is just going to make that street you know worse where where we have to bring our cars um any other questions for me we don't ask any questions but we appreciate it Jeff all right thank you right okay Donna Pelini Alderman and after Miss Alderman is Stephanie himelstein good morning first of all thank you all for all that you've done to rebuild our Island I have been um and my family a resident of this island on the south end for more than 40 years we've known the himelstein for all of that time my parents were friends with theirs I've known Robert and gotten to know his children I think first of all this situation is sad and unfortunate from a personal perspective and I think it's unfair to a family who are doing the best they can to help rebuild this island Robert has bought a parcel of land Mid Island setting up a business here his son will be taking over the build business in New Jersey and they plan on becoming full-time residents as his parents remain today they're good people and they have good hearts and they are respectful from a personal perspective this request seems selfish disrespectful of both their neighbors and also more importantly from my perspective our Island and the setbacks and laws that we have in place if we give permission I do turtles I am environmental I think there are setbacks for a reason I think setbacks are there was initially 10 ft was cut back to 7 feet that that end of won is so narrow you need those those mangroves you need that that water protection I just I think it's I think it's it's it's greedy and it's not environmentally smart for our Island to make these kind of concessions this would be something that people would look at and say well I'd like a concession too um I just also think from a community responsibility perspective it feels irresponsible for those same reasons cutting off emergency access and also taking care of of our Island and that particular Peninsula is very fragile we've been through enough damage I think we've got bigger issues to do than make concessions for personal preference that's all I have to say thank you Donna Stephanie hilstein after Stephanie is Larry hilstein good afternoon um can't tell you the last time I spoke like this but I'll do my best I have it written down and I know it's three minutes so I will try to go quickly um I'm the uh owner of 21381 wiin terce I'm very upset and that's the reason why I'm speaking about this issue because I feel that we were portrayed as bad neighbors and that we just didn't want our neighbors especially for the TV people that she called them to have a pool and that is very far from the truth um I feel like we've been put in the situation because we really didn't have a choice um I know this is also I want to thank all of you for taking this amount of time on this subject um the applicants and their attorney have stated numerous times that they have worked with us and they will continue to do so and that is simply not true um we have received we received the postcard two days before the last Town Council hearing uh we have the postcard with us that was um with the postal um stamp on it of the Postal Services delay on that we have had to play catchup and it seems like I said that we're being portrayed as just not caring we had no idea that this addition was going forward the only correspondents like Kelly had said that we had had back in 2021 was when they sent us an email and Robert right then and there said he could not um could not support this addition at the last Town Council we were asked to try to come up with a compromise the the applicant still had not discussed anything with us there may have been a question or two that Kelly alluded to in the passings of the driveway um so I had said to Robert I really think that we should ask them to talk and we did and that is how that one conversation happened before the last LPA we tried to ask questions as so much information has been lacking and we were very confused about what was happening we received some answers but the applicants were very unwilling to work with us when we tried to ask about other Alternatives they were not interested it seemed they simply wanted to put their pool where they wanted it and that's that uh they W an elevated pool twice as long as a standard pool with an 11t waterfall a Sund deck she said it's 16 in the waterfall but it expands um 11 feet in the drawing a Sund deck an outdoor kitchen which she had mentioned she already has there is a deck about twoot wide that she has a barbecue on that is not an outdoor kitchen with a three-story screen enclosure above all of that all of these amenities falling partially in the sidey yard setback area they want to build a 487t entertainment area to extend their inside of their home which she had mentioned earlier um in the small area between our homes and they're not interested in considering other areas of their property which we have since received information stating that this is indeed possible they did mention two potential compromises that she also did say at the time of the meeting um that we had the one meeting that we had together the first one being a landscape plan which I guess the LPA had also asked for that to cover up the concrete wall facing our property we raised an issue with some of these plants because they write in the description say that they are um very destructive and that they cause bad allergies and respiratory problems the root systems are very destructive I would also like to add that is still in their plans the second compromise that they offered was to Canever the end of their deck where their outdoor kitchen would be that they're asking for where it meets our roadway this would still be an iore and impeding on the entrance of our home I would like to add neither of these compromises were things we asked for um at this time it seems to us that the applicant is unwilling to work with us and so we ask that you deny these requests for variances today we hope that they will take the time to work with the HOA which has not done so far as well as ourselves to come up to a middle ground that everyone is in agreement with thank you very much thank you Stephanie Larry himlin and following Larry is Dorothy himelstein hello sir oh Punchy he old age uh I'm uh Robert's father uh I knew I would wander more than three minutes so I've prepared a script uh we my wife and I have been on this island since 1973 and purchased our property in 19 77 enjoy spending six months a year here in Fort Myers Beach uh we're excited for our son to join us as a permanent resident when he get when he gets the approval he's needed and the addition that we're talking about today greatly affects the home where he will reside I don't understand how it could could be considered to be de and additionally uh you have to consider that the property that the applicants purchased never had a pool and of course there's a reason why that is the case I know Robert and his family want to be good neighbors they want the applicants to enjoy their home and have no issue with them having a pool the problem is the applicants are asking for the world and unwilling to to compromise the pool is in act less than half of the addition for these reasons as well as the other arguments made here today I ask each of you to vote to deny these variance requests thank you thank you Le Dorothy himlin and after Dorothy is Robert himelstein hello hello I'm Dorothy himelstein I'm Robert's mom it's it's hard to put words what this island means to our family we started coming here in 73 and bought property in 1977 Stephanie's family has also been coming to the island for a long time and lived on witch and Terrace for 10 years my son is now becoming a full-time resident because his youngest child is graduating high school later this year he is moving down to open the furniture store which is our business in New Jersey he was heartbroken by Hurricane Ian and is committed to helping further the rebuild he has provided Furniture to condos and restaurants at special prices and gives charl Brothers free rent after they had issues with their landlord After the Storm I am so excited for my son to come down and help the rebuild but this has caused him a lot of heartache and I ask that you put an end to it today thank you thank you Robert hilstein I'm sorry I've been mispronouncing it the whole [Laughter] time after Robert will be Steven Brockman I haven't seen it you can here Robert give them to them so you can you can they could pass them out for you you can talk at the same time they all the same these are some pictures that an architect actually Drew for us uh the pictures uh basically uh show before and after of what this uh pool and addition would be so this gives you a really good idea of what it is uh I'm asking to deny the application today because basically if you look at the at the Community Development Department application they said there they did not check off there are no deed restrictions or covenants on the subject property and there are this is part of flamingo Harbor it requires it requires approval from the board uh I've tried to work with Todd I actually uh just reached out to him I sent him an email again back on February 16th asking him to do some renderings of what he wanted to do and he never responded so I actually hired an architect myself to draw his plans on his subject property so I could see what it looks like and now that you can see what it looks like so you can see it's it's it's it's massive uh uh what he's asking for is a 39 ft long pool it's bigger than anybody else's pool and it's got lots of amenities and it's huge it's 30 ft high and you can see it does block my view and it does obviously uh uh block the drive it comes in front of my driveway post but uh uh the second document I handed you was from Carl Benji Carl Benji said from day one August 11th of 21 that uh it was a 10- foot requirement for a raised pool uh I showed that to uh Sarah props and Sarah's props answer to me was sometimes Carl just didn't know what he was doing I I have since verified with my planner and my planner has verified that that it was oh that they weren't that you saw earlier uh I also gave you a d approval notice from Brian Snider which says that Todd can change the location of his pool on his existing property now that he does have a d approval I gave you the original email back from August 19th of 21 to Todd telling them I couldn't support it I gave you a copy of the February 16th uh 24 email and I also have an email even from uh uh Mr brance that says it does ites it does appear that it may be possible doing in ground pool but it may require jumping through some different Hoops but my client has already spent a lot of time and money on this project and doesn't want in ground pool so the last thing I last two things are from our president Bob Carlin uh this was his personal view I was trying not to involve the HOA initially uh and basically he said that you know the variances that should be given should should be like like for like Replacements after storm damage not new projects something like this and the last document is from uh Jack Clark that this is as of yesterday the HOA has not seen any proposal or pool addition to basically approve anything so there we go last thing I wanted to just say is uh Mr Irrelevant in the NFL uh we were the last people to get our Co I believe on the island for our store that got washed away so I really appreciate the conversations earlier today I just want to say how much I appreciate mayor allers coming out uh vice mayor coming out councelor Woodson coming out counselor Safford coming out and I think not to shoot from my hip but I think uh I think uh councelor King was on his recovery bed responding to my emails so again you know the leadership here is just outstanding I mean we're small business we're looking forward to being here and when I tell you I mean I the leadership here is just remarkable and the time you guys gave us thank you very very much thank you Robert Steph Brockman excuse me Steph Brockman got water right there get some water I need a copy of those last two pictures hello sir good morning um I am uh Steven Brockman I'm a professional engineer in the State of Florida uh 4663 I've been a professional structural and civil engineer for I hate to admit it 40 years now so um you should go if he's going to be testifying you need to vote to qualify him okay is there a motion to qualify Mr Blackman Rockman Brockman so moved second the motion is second any further discussion hearing done all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none go ahead sir okay more than a statement I just have a question on this what is the um elevation of the top of the pool planed to be the deck okay uh the lowest lowest structure member on in any structure in a ve zone is to be 1 foot above base flood elevation that would require the bottom of this pool to be 13 ft so if it's a 4ft deep pool we're talking 17 ft has that and I would just like you consider that height is not going to be even with the the top of the pool it's not going to be at the U elevation of the um finished floor on the first level so when this goes through flood review uh two things that I've heard this morning that'll be kick back if it's sitting on um solid walls in v Zone cannot be sitting on solid walls they have to be Frable blowout walls it can set on piles on pile caps but that the lowest structure for that pile cap has to be at base 13 ft okay thank you sir I have signed up is there anyone else that would like to speak and public comment on this case yes seeing none I will close public comment are there any additional comments or rebuttal or closing statements from the applicant yes sir all right I I listen to a lot of the comments and I appreciate the people coming here and making comments um unfortunately most of them aren't relevant to the issues at hand my clients aren't responsible or obligated to put a turnaround in for traffic at the end of their property that's private property they could put a rope up just like the neighbor did he's got a rope across his driveway if my client puts an inground pool in that same space Vehicles aren't going to be able to turn around in that space either so to say that my client we shouldn't approve this because they're there's going to lose a turnaround that that's not relevant and it's not it shouldn't be considered by you um what's relevant is whether or not it's the Minimus you saw the picture can you put the picture up again of where the pools going there is no other place on this property to put a swimming pool this is the only available area not to mention it's the most convenient because the doors are right there on the side of the house there's no way that the government's going to let them put a pool in the back of the house um and by the way that's his garage his garage apartment so this is the Minimus he doesn't want that you heard him say it over and over again they do not want a ground level pool it's inconvenient it's unsightly and it's subject to flooding this is they're not blocking anything the view is right there I listened to the surveyor who didn't make any sense to me but maybe you could follow him I was reminded me of Professor irn Corey he was talking this way and talking that way my but he gave no solid opinion he said this looks like it might be different it looks like it might be over and what I heard him say was even worse was that there may be some common ground that that they don't own outside on that water if I heard him correctly which means that that's going to even screw up his setbacks back there even worse if he were to put a pool behind the house so this is the most Dom Minimus request you could possibly make um a lot of Hired Guns a lot of people saying a lot of friends family we don't want this but that's not competent evidence that's just opinion evidence and probably persuaded by the fact that this is his son can't speculate that there's going to be noise out there and you can't speculate that somebody's going to get I mean we live on the beach noise is a primary problem we've all recognized that there's noise ordinances though to fight that it's so you shouldn't deny somebody something because there's a potential because of noise or it's in the viewing quarters you can see that is that the where's the picture it shows the house the downside where the pool's going I heard somebody say that this was going to be quite intrusive to the neighbors I don't know what neighbor they could be talking about other than to the neighbor to the north and that's his garage his main house is over to the side so I don't know how that's going to be quite intrusive to the neighbor but um in response to some of the questions about trying to fool whomever we never hid the fact that this was a rais pool it was always discussed it was discussed with staff over and over again um so nobody was hiding anything or trying to hide anything um I heard somebody talking about traffic patterns I don't know what that has to do with anything this is residential neighborhood it's a street um yeah traffic is a mess on that street there's only one way in and one way out these people are at the very end I don't know how that's going to affect traffic patterns the HOA did approve this so we have the approval of the HOA I heard somebody say that they purchased the property with no pool well they purchased the property with no pool but with plans to build the pool and just because you don't have a house with something doesn't mean you can't add it I mean people add elevators they wheelchair ramps they had a lot of things to their houses um so I appreciate all of those comments but none of them were of any way relevant and I don't know what the engineer was talking about um but we do know we do know that if you approve this this is only step one it then has to go to permitting and permitting will address the construction of it permitting will address the whether or not at the height of the whatever they have to do they'll they'll do whatever the permitting process is they'll they'll complete it so all they're asking for is 2 feet on the one side which is pretty common in that neighborhood and I think what 10 ft in the back which I haven't heard anybody complaining about the rear setback uh but all the construction stuff will be will be eliminated at uh the permitting process so I'll let I don't know if they want to say anything else but um oh and by the way we did I I spent 30 minutes or more with them after to the lp LPA meeting I invited them to try and compromise to tell me what you need maybe more Landscaping this landscaping and they they promised they would and then I get an email back that basically says put it in ground pooling that was their compromise and we said all along my clients are interested in in ground pool so come up with something different maybe we pay to move your garage apartment I don't know but uh or turn it another way but that was the Compromise they came up with and according my clients that's not acceptable thank you I think everyone everything's been covered uh obviously when we first started I think there was a lot of questions that you guys were concerned about um is there anything else that maybe have popped up here that uh warrant some answers no I not for me I think we've we' we've covered it between all the hear I don't want to drag it on any longer talking about unless you have something else that concerns is so not not for you guys okay thank you I should anybody else I just want to say thank you that's all I have to say so mine's very short Sarah do you mind coming back up just for just a quick second this this and it came up and it came up again about the the um the application and you you testified that staff is aware of what they were going to build this desite what the application may or may not have said is that a fair statement prior to the LPA hearing I personally was not aware of what they were going to be building um they I'm I'm sure that they did meet with staff uh initially however I wasn't involved in those initial meetings and that that information wasn't relayed to me um and I don't believe that the reviewer was aware of that but they um upon speaking with them it they weren't attempting to subvert the process they weren't trying to hide anything I think that it was they thought we knew and it was a different group of people who they spoke with initially um regarding the request um I think that we have the appropriate request everybody has brought up this elevated pool issue um so let me just do you mind if I cover that real quick no please do okay so 34174 d1d requires um elev pools to have the same side setback wait is it d1d it requires the same side setback as the primary structure um and I believe that that's because of the non sea walled water body and then 34638 d3b requires the 25t setback for all structures for a non sea walled water body and so there are sections of code that talk about an elevated pool and there are sections of code that talk about a non-sea walled water body lot this is both of those it's an elevated pool and a non Seawall water body therefore we ask for the setback from the principal structure setback found in table 34-3 so we asked for the principal structure setback we didn't ask for a variance from the requirement that uh a non sea walled water body accessory structure doesn't have to meet the same setback as the principal structure we didn't ask for uh that an elevated pool didn't have to meet the same setback we asked for the setback of the principal structure a variance from that does that make sense for the most part okay yeah the other question I had is that there was a question brought up about the elevation and I know that's probably not you're not the flood plane manager but and I know it'll be what happens if this was to be approved and then through the permitting process they found that that height or that elevation would have to be 3T 4T 5T higher to meet the requirement would that then how would that work and I don't know I don't think anybody has seen what the height would be or what the elevations are or you know is the current level where they want to build the house is that already meet the ve requirements or uh that has not been reviewed however we don't have a condition in here that they're requ ired to build it to a certain elevation it is just a variance for an elevated pool and screen enclosure we don't have a specified height in here so in my opinion the way it's currently written and the the request that you have in front of you is for an elevated pool and a screen enclosure so it doesn't have anything to do it's not touching the flood code requirements or height of the structure it's just saying they're asking for this so so you're approving this if there were if they needed to elevate it further in order to meet the flood code requirements that would happen during that portion of the process unless you wanted to put a condition in here that it could only be a certain elevation height um that would be an option for you I don't know that it's beneficial but it would be an option in that instance when they got to the building permit port if it failed flood review they would have to come back before you again any questions for Sarah all right I guess I just have one clarification so when people go through this and they get to that point of flood elevation um I mean that that's pretty pretty standard procedure correct and then if there's something that has to be changed then you deal with it at that time yes yeah um because it's it the only thing it's going to change is how they design the structure it's not going to change where it's located on the lot okay am any questions for either side if not I'll now close the public hearing and request a discussion or a motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continues to a Time certain discussion start with you Scott well you know going out and visiting and speaking with the neighbors um there's a big question about you know do they do they need a a few more setbacks and I haven't heard evidence that that was needed and my big thing as well when I went out there and looked at the you know perious impervious aspect of it it it seemed to me that it might be a challenge but I didn't hear evidence to support that their calculation is not correct I I am a little concerned about the ve portion of it and how high it's going to be but I that's like a curveball thrown right at the last second I'm not really I mean if if if we're just giving a a a setback and that's all we're doing and it's worked out down the road then you know I'm okay with it but you know that's something we have to talk about but th those those were my my my big issues and I I I just don't see and there was also the you know the the question of because it's elevated doesn't need a different different setback and that and Sarah explained that they did not so th those were my my three three big issues on on this and uh don't think think uh I think everything's fine I'm just worried about you know what we're going to do with the you know it be a ve Zone that was never brought up um anywhere except for today and and how you know Mr brockman's testimony that or his public comment that you know they might have a twot deep pool at the end or it's going to be higher I mean it is that a question we have to contend with now yeah I guess that's what I was trying to get out of Sarah is does I mean if this was to be approved and it found later would they would have to come back before the council wouldn't they to Scott's question um the only reason the way it's currently written the only reason that they would need to come back to you is if they were proposing a pool that had different setbacks than what was already proposed because we don't have a condition regarding the height of the pool um I do believe they had said that the the pool deck was going to be 8 ft above GR grade bu but we don't know what that elevation is yeah I mean but knowing where the the sea level is that that may be approximately right um the way that the resolution is currently written though they wouldn't have to come back to change the elevation of the pool they would only have to come back if they were changing the setbacks unless a condition was put in that if it had to go higher than what was proposed then you could have them come back yes if you felt that that was appropriate we could add that condition Okay C Woodson I mean I talking about adding this condition to me it's all that would be covered in flood plane and through the process so I don't see I mean because what we're looking at here is is basically setback deviations um we're not looking at planning or or flood plane or anything like that so I don't think there's a need to put that condition in because I think it will be addressed when they get to that point um when this came through to us the first time I had specifically asked the question where exactly was that pool going to be and I had thought it was going to go out the back from the first time through that was answered the first time through when I went out to see it I can see that that is probably not probably I'm pretty much the only place a pool could go um so I think for all practical purposes I've had my questions answered throughout this process so I'm good yeah I think just to if I understand it correctly the the discussion over the the height would be if this was approved it would be approved at the setbacks but that doesn't mean they if that has to go up four feet that they couldn't Elevate under the current approval they couldn't Elevate four feet above not that you probably would but that they could by right then Elevate the pool four extra feet if that's what they had to do to meet the elevation because there's no restriction saying that you can't go up higher than what has been discussed today so I think that's you understand what I'm saying so you know the the discussion about you know where it is and everything if it's approved the way it is they could theoretically go higher if it had to go higher by Blood elevation requirements but I don't I mean I don't know that you as much as I can't speak for them but personally as much as I wouldn't want to walk down the stairs I don't know that I want to walk up the stairs to get to my pool either but it's just that was the reason I was asking about the yeah right right okay Vice May edol well I'm going to go up about 10,000 ft on this one because I I I'm having a hard time making a determination as to how this is di Minimus I I think this is a substantial change uh they're asking for a variance here a variance is in essence something they need a variance because they're not in harmony or agreement with our code and so to me the burden is on the applicant and since hurricane Ian uh I think this Council and and our lpo has bent over backwards to try to help people who've been impacted adversely by the hurricane this is not hurricane related uh they also bought the pool I'm sorry bought the home without without a pool and they knew that but they have every opportunity to have a pool but they don't necessarily have a right to a pool particularly with respect to the variances and in those situations as the attorney said it is subjective and and and to me and the way I've always handled these things since I've been on the council if you want something that's substantial and it's it's it's it's pushing the the Border in terms of or the boundaries of di Minimus or not to me it seems like are you in harmony with your neighbors or not and I know that can be challenging but again it's the applicant who's asking for the special consideration I think they have an obligation to be in harmony with their neighbors the the applicant seem like lovely people they invited us invited me into their homes on Saturday seemed like well- meaning and they and I I wish them well but I just I cannot find a way to see how this is di Minimus given all that we've heard about the proposal and so I'm I'm having a hard time uh supporting it on those grounds councilor king I don't have anything that need to share okay well you guys have shared a lot of my concerns on both sides and you know this is always these are always difficult as I told these guys when I met them you know it's you got neighbors and it's it's never easy for a town to get involved in in things but you know our job is to sit up here and look at what our staff has presented us and and hear what everybody has has said and and I go back to your point um Vice mayal with the Dom Minimus I I think I disagree with you to a certain aspect that to Karen's point walking the property and seeing the property I don't know how without mitigating a lot of mangroves back there that you're going to get a pool in the back that wouldn't have to be underneath the deck um and I also thought about you know and I asked the question well that's why I asked the question about the the landscape buffer I mean could they plant 30 foot trees there and completely block The View entirely by right could they do that um so if it's a view issue I mean if they could do that even without having a pool you know I was concerned with some of the things you saw the two plats that were different or the the plat versus the survey you know the 15t thing that was important for me to see because at the time when I met with him I wasn't able to see it with with with the neighbor um where it was but the fact that those calculations and I with you Scott I I don't have any reason to not agree with a professional surveyor that gave us the numbers um and all that would get worked out it's it's it's not an easy decision um personally for me either way because I I think they both were are are very well intended I I think that they both have very good points um but in this case I think I would have to agree with our staff um that they have met the requirements that are needed for us to to approve this so with that is there a motion so moved to do what oh [Laughter] sorry to that's pretty good you like that see I'm not the only one I don't even have my sorry sorry sorry um I will make a motion to approve variance number 202 23062 21391 vion Terrace wdon Terrace pool um with any conditions that were initially brought into uh our consideration with this okay there a second I'll second all right discussion I got a couple things it for me I think it would be important to have that height requirement in if it comes back under the ve that has to go higher that not that we all want to do this all over again but if if for some reason it comes back that the height that is being proposed is not the height that it has to be per code that um they have to come back before us I think that would be something Fair um so that not again not that I think anybody would Elevate their pool higher than where they walk out of their front front door but it's possible so I would I would be in favor of adding that um and another condition and I did speak with the applicants about this whether or not they're they're aboard with it or not I don't know but you know working in construction for a long time when you have tight quarters like that very tight spaces usually the Builder or the developer will require people to stage off site and then bring in their Crews so that they're not hampering their neighbors um you know they sometimes you have to come in you know with a truck to drop things off but then they're required to go to a different area and be um vanned in if you will so that they're not having cars parked out in front of their and I think that would be something that would be important to add just to help alleviate some of the impact on the neighbors while this is being done what about the seasonal ability I mean that's that's a rental property generate a lot of income and you're going to inconvenience the the renters there is there way have we done conditions where the construction has to go be in off seon or is that just asking way too much I I mean I don't know that I I think whether it's season or Not Season I guess to me is it's it's more important to the homeowners that live there or the renters that they have living there to impact their ability to come and go every day you know that's probably the most important thing I I mean there's there's going to be construction noise on this island for the next eight years so yeah I mean and I can tell you being being on the receiving and a having to climb in the van with all your tools it is not a fun thing to do and and contractors do not like it but it's understandable why you have to do it or you'd never be able to move anywhere with all the cars that would be around so uh I I would support it with those two conditions if you're willing to amend your motion I'll amend my motion got Sor I I would suggest you do it okay um and and I I also heard some concerns regarding the Landscaping plan that was proposed right now the condition says uh the Landscaping plan attached as exhibit whatever um you may want to say that there is an ability to change the Landscaping plan to something that's agreeable to both neighbors yes rather than just require it this is the plan I I think that should be a condition as well that you make sure that they're native trees and they're nonivasive and root systems and all that I I think that can be certainly a condition to get all that I'm going to say that I would amend my approval to include the three conditions just discussed uh landscape height of the pool and ability to um drop off materials needed but not park and block roadways and how would that be worded Becky would that be like a track I mean traffic mitigation plan or how would it be our site building um what did you call it offsite s staging offsite staging I think that's that's an appropriate thing to makes sense to me I think what he's getting after is we don't want 15 cars exactly and I understand that and and possibly just an offs site staging plan acceptable to the town and so it can be something that's outlined I think it everybody understands the intent of that part of it do you review offside staging plans at all haven't done it in this town but I have done it in other communities okay um I do have a question can you clarify on the height exactly exactly what it is that you want covered by that condition just for my clarity I would think it has to meet the minimum flood plane requirements okay whatever that is if it's 1 foot above BF year not not if it doesn't otherwise have to be because I don't believe just because you can have an inground pool that doesn't meet the flood plane and um the pillars or posts or whatever they are um are okay at whatever height it's when you start enclosing things and then if you enclose it it has to be Breakaway so it's I'm I'm not totally convinced that a raised pool would have to go up to the minimum um elevation so I'm not one to make that decision yeah so that's what I'm getting that's what I want to get clarity on are you just saying that it's required to meet all of the flood zone requirements or were you saying something different I I think what he was saying is if it's going to go higher than what what is proposed proposed which is right outside their main level that it will come back here if it's got to be several feet above it or something I I think the whole concept was that the pool would start right where their their deck is they walk out the pool's there now if it's they have to climb up five more feet to get to their pool you know I I think not going to do that that's the whole different deal right yeah so I I think that should be a that would come back to us anyway wouldn't it well if we put the requirement into the de yeah so just that ju Just that it needs to be level with the existing ground if it has to be higher than what has been proposed the existing deck if it's if the requirements state that it has to go higher than what is proposed that it has to come back okay for reie do do you want to have like any wiggle room like if it's a if it's a foot or just say any I think just the deck I think just what is being proposed today if it's got to go two inches higher and there's a two-inch step there I think it's got to come back okay thank you was that as clear as mud Becky do this I'm sure Amy got it all down okay so you've amended your motion did she do I'll amend my second sufficiently yes okay thank thank you we got an amended motion and amend amended second any further discussion the roll call vote correct councelor Woodson yay councelor King hi councelor Safford hi vice mayor adul nay mayy allers is an i passes 4 to one next does anyone need a break before we a brief break we'll take a quick five minute break you okay you need to get somewhere I think my legs are stuck in 20 2453 v202 30288 8869 Estero Boulevard this is a resolution of the town of council the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying variance v22 30288 requesting a variance from LDC 34- 638 d1g which requires new atg grade mechanical equipment to not encroach into a sidey setback and to be located on the side of the property with the larger setback where there are differing set sideb back wids the property located at 8069 Estero Boulevard providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of laws scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date if any Town council member has had any expart communication to this Clos please let us know if the subject discuss discuss and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspond correspondence that you received or observations made of the site councelor King none Vice May adhal none I have none ccor wison none councelor Safford none okay Sarah has been ex has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and has based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and the development in the town of Fort Meers Beach are there any other individuals that would like to be qualified as expert Witnesses on behalf of the applicant at this time seeing none has a property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from the staff yes take it away Sarah good afternoon Sarah propes with Community Development Blair Harris owner of 869 Estero Boulevard is requesting a variance from LDC section 34638 d1g to allow new atg grade pool equipment to encroach into a required sidey setback 2 and 1/2 ft the code requires that all atg grade equipment meet required sidey setbacks and also requires that new equipment be located on the larger side yard if the house is not centered on the property the property contains a single family residence with an 8.8 ft sidey yard setback on the west side and 31 ft on the side yard on the East 869 Estero is an RS zoned property that has 120 ft deep and between 66 and 74 ft wide a new pool was built on the property in 2022 and a and new equipment was installed on the west side of the property the approved plans show the equipment on the east side where the larger setback is the pool failed final inspection based on the incorrect location of the equipment the applicant is requesting a variance to allow the pool equipment to remain within the required sidey yard setback 5.05 ft from the East side property line where a side setback of 7 1/2 ft is required this request Was Heard by the LPA on their February 13th hearing and approval was recommended staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here questions for Sarah Mr Mayor and and I would just apologize to the applicant because I want to I want to use this as an example of what we talked about at our last meeting if as I understand from watching the LPA hearing there was no objection no remonstration of any kind correct so this would be an example of this expedited procedure concept we could put this on the consent calendar it was unanimous from the LPA nobody remonstrated nobody voted against it we've heard no no uh nothing from our constituency so this procedurally then could move very quickly and obviously any counselor could object at any time but given we're at 1:20 in the afternoon today this would be an example of just to be helpful to the applicant as well not to have to come in these are the kind this is the this is the example of what we're trying to accomplish if you could do your your your your miraculous word smithing I know ker county has something similar uh so anyways I don't want to me to digress I certainly support this and uh just wanted to use this as an example of how procedurally we can maybe help expedite the process a bit thank you Mr bear no problem Sarah have you got any information from any a budding neighbor that has an issue with this I've not heard any concerns okay John did you have a question I did okay any other questions for Sarah no I think the only thing to your point though I don't remember what we brief talk about but if a staff recommends denial even though it was approved unanimously can you do that legally without having oh okay thanks sah thank you they have if you'd like to you're welcome to we don't want force you to do anything but you're welcome to so uh we put in a pool right before Ian was not your name please Valerie Harris uh Blair's wife I live at 8069 EST sto Boulevard and I did get sworn in uh so we put in a pool in 2022 right before Ian uh we did not get it inspected before because it was literally a few weeks before Ian uh Ian came washed the lower level of our house out everything around our house out and obviously wrecked the pool and all the pool equipment um so they had to come back we had to refix everything redo the pool all that work was done we have pavers in all the pool decking is done everything is done and then we get the pool inspected and find out it was put in the wrong spot so in order for us to um move it to the other side we would have to dig everything up again which it was a lot of work to get to where we are it was 10 months of you know 12-hour days very hard work as you guys all know um our neighbors are fine the one on the side uh they gave a letter which I did provide last time and I don't have another copy but I did provide a copy and I can email it to you if you need it but it's uh Jonathan McHugh and Elaine Eagle they're fine with that and they sent a certified letter saying that they were fine with that so I just beseech you to approve it was it the same pool company that before the storm is after the storm that fixed it yes it was and the that pool equipment was there in that spot you just hadn't had it inspected yet so you wouldn't have known yes that it was in the wrong we did want it there but we didn't know that it was incor we didn't know that they had put it in a place and didn't do the proper things with the town we had no idea that um that was where we wanted it but they designed it on the other side yeah know why and these are the things that I this is not necessarily off topic but to to Andy and Frank these are the things that I hope we can alleviate going into the future I think if a site inspection was done it could have saved you a lot of time and money uh and sounds like where you wanted them to have them in the first place if we had just gone and done a a preliminary check of the site before everything got covered but any other questions for the applicant thank you thank you public comment is there any here that would like to speak in public comment seeing none we'll close it are there any additional comments from the applicant any rebuttal are you sure okay then I will now close the public hearing and request a a discussion or a motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions or deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain Mr Mayor sir I move approval of resolution 24- 53 second and motion by vice mayor aderholt seconded by councelor King any further discussion roll call vote uh vice mayor adol I councelor King hi councelor Woodson I councelor Safford I may allers is I got approval five to nothing next is a resolution 24-20 v202 30284 for 65 Flamingo Street a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying variance v22 30284 requesting a variance from table 34-3 principal structure setbacks to decrease the Front Street setback by 10 ft and decrease the rear setback by 15 ft and discre and decrease the rear Street setback by 15 ft to allow a new single family home for the property at 65 Flamingo Street providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scriveners errors severability and providing for an effective date if any Town council member has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject disclosed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or any OB observations made of the site councelor saff none councelor Woodson none I have none Vice may I did receive a phone call probably three weeks ago and I honestly just can't remember who the name of the person they just expressed some concerns I think they testified at the lp can't remember it's been a long day but it's not going to affect my vote okay ccor K nothing all right Sarah pro has been has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Meers Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time come on these Cas they've been qualified before in different cases but they need do they need to do it again for this case as long as they've been qualified before y'all opposed to the LPA has yes I have not been qualified before for because up until recently I didn't want to work in Fort Meers Beach nice well that'll get you a long way to get an approval for the record James in G engineering um I'll do this in like 60 seconds real quick 30 30 okay we came to town in 1917 my dad had an engineering for me started in the 50s I grew up in The Firm I'm a licensed professional engineer I have done planning in Zoning for over 40 years I've been on City plan board for 13 years and uh Lee County plan board for eight years recently retired for both of those I move we accept him as a qualified expert I thought you were going to go with being escorted out the building we got a motion by vice mayor aderholt I'll second got second by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I thank you Logan good afternoon Albert Ambrose architect of CAD uh Forida applicant uh been licensed for Florida registered architect for over 20 years uh been practiced in Southwest Florida for over 20 years a nous project residential and commercial on island off Island around Southwest Florida as well as throughout the state um that's about it really same motion Mr Mayor got a motion by vice mayor adhal second secondly by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying hi I opposed hearing done you're now an expert go good afternoon Jim Inc on be Sarah props with Community Development Jim Inc on behalf of the owner Carl palot of 65 Flamingo Street is requesting a variance from table 34-3 of the Land Development code for a reduction in the front setback of 5 feet and a reduction in the rear and rear Street setback of 15 feet this variance would result in a 20 foot front setback with a 5 foot encroaching first floor porch and a 5 foot rear and rear Street setback the property is 50 ft deep with or 50 ft Deep by 72 1/2 ft wide it's a 3500 Square ft lot that fronts on Flamingo Street and ab buts the Gulf Road culdesac at the Western rear corner of the property for Street setback purposes we have treated this as a corner lot with the secondary Street being treated with the corner lot setbacks the property is zon RC the minimum lot size for new RC Zone Lots is 4,000 square ft however the lot meets the minimum lot length and width for the RC zoning District this difference is likely due to the cesac that is carved out of the rear of the property prior to Hurricane Ian the property contained a house that had reduced setbacks there were no former variances found for this property and no survey of the property or of the previous house to determine those previous setbacks the applicant is proposing a two-story house over flood elevation with a 5ft deep front porch on the first living level level and an elevated pool within those setbacks two letters of objection have been received by neighbors within 500 ft of the property the LPA heard this case at the February 13th hearing and recommended approval staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here questions for Sarah K mayor edle none Concor Woodson none ccor Safford none and I do not have any at this point Thank you Mr ink for the record again Jim Inc I have a lengthy PowerPoint but I'm going to defer that and just go with a couple statements of the lot was uh developed the subdivision was developed in the 50s 1950 recorded plat lot split we don't know when the house was built early 70 so there was no real record or no real uh setbacks and what we're trying to do is essentially put it back in a similar footprint of what's there um other than that reserve the right to rebut if there's public comment and what's it I'm just trying to find it in the packet here the square footage of the new proposed house was like, 1400 sare feet or something like 1600 1,600 is that what it was okay any questions for Mr Inc thank you public comment is there any member of the public who wishes to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in well part of the applicant just to follow up on the same thing as Jim we're together as a team on the architect he's taking care of the landing planning side of things any questions you guys have then feel free to reach out to me I think Jim answer your question about scare footage any other public comment see none we'll close public comment are there any rebuttal nothing okay and I will close the public hearing and request a discussion or a motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain I move to approve resolution 2420 variance 2023 0284 65 Flamingo Street call second motion by councelor Safford second by councelor in just a quick question I have is is the re I see you got a 20 based on the 1406 ft buildable area that you're building I'm assuming that doesn't include the second story where the master bedroom was but is there is the 20 foot in the front is that the requirement just for car space I mean is there no re there is that the reason why it can't come forward a little bit I don't know where the neighbors live that objected to this but um the reason for the 20 ft is that's where the house we believe where it was and 20 ft allows for parking of a car and keeping it on private property okay and will this be open underneath I would assume or is it going to be enclosed under that would be an Albert question over 50% if not close to 70% would be open on the bottom floor okay yeah thanks any further discussion got a motion in a second roll call vote got I here coun Woodson I VI mayor UL I King I and may Al is I motion carries unanimously next is the administrative agenda we have resolution 24- 09 extra Duty Marine patrols a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida to ratify and approve a contract agreement with Lee County Sheriff's Office for extra Duty Waterway detail services at the rates specified in exhibit a to the agreement and amend addendum and providing for an effective date thank you mayor we've um been doing this or you as a town have done this in the past and it's uh that time of the year so we're just getting this some housekeeping we're getting done there's also a grant that helps pay for this okay questions for Andy is there a motion to approve or deny resolution 24- 09 I'll make a motion to approve resolution 24 4- 09 second Motion in second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously final public comment you got anyone listed anyone back there want to say anything no okay we'll close fin P final public comment Tom manager items thank you mayor I'll be as brief as possible um you're done obviously thank you very much uh obviously we've uh we did a lot of work uh really um over the last U three or four days getting moved in but there was a lot of work that was done prior to that getting these constructed and and we had a um a union strike with a that we had to deal with United Auto Workers because of you know axles and tires and things of that nature they go to these so that delayed but Frank did a a great job you know behind the scenes stuff nobody really saw um dealing with me um you know where are they how come not here we've been working on this probably since August 1st July sometime so it's it's it's it just didn't happen overnight as you as you all know uh we've had communication about that but it's it's the Public's building it's it's it's for our town it's it's a a sense of Pride and one thing that we'll be doing is is I believe it's going to be on March 28th we'll have an open house uh during the day on a Thursday morning we we want them to come through and see how our employees are working what they're doing and we just we just want to open it formally like that maybe maybe have a a ribbon cutting or something of that nature also Excuse Me On th uh Tuesday March 19th there will be an election in this room this is now the precinct for the uh town uh two precincts for this town right now uh there's two elections this year um this one in March and then the other one in November and then there won't be another election for probably another year oh there's one in August as well so there's three so they'll be right here we they've come in they've they've evaluated the room everything should fit just fine so they're they're excited about that I do want to um really thank staff for all the hard work and the moving um we we put a plan in place and we were so excited I am actually very excited to see how the plan came together and everybody just followed it to a te um don't even think there was really any hiccups at all still W on FPL to do the final hookup they've done the preliminary with the Transformer it's out there our electricians are now the the missing piece the conduit if you will that will be um here I can do it too um that can be here for um uh to get the the wiring here so we can get FPL back out to power power us up um the whole meeting I was just praying that the um generator didn't run out of fuel it's not over yet and the meeting's not over yet but as of about 8:30 this morning we had 42% in there so the tank was pretty good shape unless we've just drained it really um magnificently we also have Comcast still coming out the building's been wired we're ready to go still some tweaks that I was monitoring today that we need to still do but again all this came together really quick over the weekend and I thought it I thought it was really well um you know um you know final comment John John is the hippest guy I know I had to get in the mix so thank you got an update Andy on when the other old leaky trailers are disappearing yes thank you um there's we were told they were supposed to start coming today to take the the ramps and the steps off but sometime this week we probably will see some movement I would say in the next two weeks they'll be gone okay some good stuff that's it all right T attorney items okay um I just uh Nancy put this on she wanted me to advise you that she is working with the county attorney's office on this TDC Times Square funding issue and she has talked with the um the county attorney and she's working with them don't know how it's going to go okay Becky just if I could just I can't remember how we left this expedited procedure Dynamic are you drafting something there oh it's oh it's already drafted it's on your agenda for the m and uhhuh beautiful thank yeah yeah it's it's done and I hope it's perfectly legal and if you like how it turns out you know it' be good the uh the kyero uh uh Enforcement issue is that going to trial or what's the status yeah parking yeah yeah yeah um okay well we thought he he came in and said that he was going to pay it completely off because he was tired of paying his attorneys and the last I heard was he didn't do it so um I believe I believe last Friday um Paul Waters one of my law Partners um went ahead and filed our amended did pleading which is what we needed to do because it had to go back before the special magistrate again which it did which it did and um yeah but we've we've refiled I'm I'm still hoping that he will come in and write the check he was going to pay it totally off do you know the amount of that check can you say I'm trying to remember what it is Frankie dur remember I I think I think we got the amount from you yeah I I I I I don't know the exact number North of I I know it was north of 1 150 okay I think it was north of 200 yeah just curious it was a fair amount of money I remember that my okay thank you so okay so I have a question then if he do we because it's already been with the magistrate again if he doesn't come in to pay do we move to foreclosure or how does that work oh no no no we're already we're in forclosure we're in foreclosure okay and the reason we had to go back this was one of the cases that we took over okay and for whatever reason the prior Town attorney had not taken it before there's a state law that says how you go through the foreclosure proceeding and your first step is you have to take it to the special magistrate and get authority to do the foreclosure that never happened so we file I mean it was already filed and we took the case over and they asked for a copy of the minutes of when it went to the special magistrate and we checked and it never did so we had to go back redo that then we had to refile the case but uh yeah so we refiled that I believe it was Friday okay what happens if he pays it but continues uh operating the way he had okay from what I understand um uh Sarah looked it up and um he can come in for a permit that allows him as long as he doesn't have it for so long as he doesn't have tenants um he can get a permit a special exception okay a special exception so we'll have to go to the process of that um but he'll qualify for a special exception to have parking in all the spaces now as soon as he um starts filling up his building then the number of spaces he can rent will be decreased and that also would fall back on Code Compliance to make sure that he's staying on the up and up okay caveat to that we've hired two additional Code Compliance officers that started today exactly okay anything else for for Becky all right council member items and reports John I have nothing May yeah I just have one item but I think it's important it's time sensitive I uh since this meeting has gone on through really most of the day some businesses has been transacted I I had a uh query from the owner of Santini Plaza uh he and I've texted to both Frankie Andy and Becky uh a few months ago he applied for a uh permit for a food truck for Santini Plaza with at that point had no idea when or how it would come to fruition uh but he's been approached by a food truck it's called yo samas uh Yos Samra LLC they do primarily Cuban Caribbean food uh they have uh what they call the Little Havana sandwich which is the chicken breast they have a Cuban sandwich which is pork ham Swiss well I'm getting to the I'm getting to the key point they have Caribbean tacos which I assume Scott could give us a review on have you heard of this firm Scott no I haven't but um I'll be the guinea pig okay that's a tough job but you're you're willing to make the sacrifice I guess procedurally what I I want to respect the convers we had this morning uh it was a good cqu about food trucks and this is obviously a business that it was not here prior but at the same time the owner of Santini Plaza went through the appropriate steps to make application I I see Don still here I'll be curious as to H slots particularly given the need on the south end for some kind of a food option I know 7-Eleven is opening soon but we all can't live on 7-Eleven food forever uh as as welcome as that is uh I just think the owner now is looking for some Direction and since we're now at a public event we can all talk to each other and we can have a conversation I just thought maybe I I look for some counsel as to how the owner should proceed he's I don't think he profits from this I think this would be from his perspective a public service uh I don't know I just I'm looking for some guidance as to to what to say to the owner of Santini Plaza given guess I think it would be very simple if he's already got a permit issued what what's the discussion I didn't know because it was in a pre-existing business I've also heard that and I don't I don't want to quote I just somebody had mentioned that that pla might have a food truck as well obviously that's a pre-existing business but they may you know that's obvious not on the same location uh they might have an interest I've not I've not heard anything definitive on that but I'm just saying and we may we we might have more than one I I think certainly that would be appropriate as well particularly if they have restroom facilities I know this Yos samis also sent a copy of their insurance so they're properly insured uh so again just looking for some direction for the uh and I and I don't know what to tell them well I I can tell you as far as from our side here um that beautiful ordinance that we've been talking to and referring to um there's really not a lot of teeth in it uh for that commercial side and that was some of this debate um if you're asking staff yeah step doesn't there's a permit issued or temporary use for so until until the ordinance is clarified going forward and I think everybody understood we didn't want to be retroactive correct so we we're okay moving forward then I is everybody comfortable I guess the pum I don't have a leg to stand on um I I uh wow I had to get mine in as well um we uh everything was done properly and as if as long as it's proper it was done properly issued properly the the town can't I see Jason here is there anything in case the owner's listening that if someone invites a food truck onto their parking lot is there anything that they need to be sensitive to uh to be in compliance with whatever the town would like hi good afternoon Jason Smalling with your planning and zoning department uh so as was mentioned before uh the normal process would be followed until such time as we're told to change or new ordinances come through um my understanding is that the entire complex already had one within few weeks to a month after the storm uh not specifically for this person but yes staff would process it uh the zoning review is going to look at whether or not the area or the zone that they're in allows for Food Service they've already issued a permit the town's already issued the permit okay and so I guess my question is if for a food truck to come in what are their obligations as a food truck do they have to provide their own restrooms there's are lighting issues there's any other does a town care about anything uh so generally our review initially to allow for the temporary permit would be looking for proper setbacks which would be the track width of the vehicle or the structure that they're using temporary structure uh otherwise they would be held to any of the other standards by the town so if they had lighting that they introduced and it wasn't in the initial review uh we would look at that for turtle compliance so we would bring in that folks uh mostly it would be just an issue of you know what is what has been reported and and has the town's compliance officer gone out there Asain and obviously the county has its own health standards of course we We Gather the the health certificate and we GA and they do fire reviews so it's not uh they they're completely reviewed as far as we're concerned should I have him before he gives the okay to the food truck should I have him call you all or what should I how how would we advise him well I'm just looking at the the the permit here that was granted for temporary use a description of f food trailer um they've already gone through all that otherwise they would have not gotten a just I just want to make sure everybody's on the same page yep the only question I have with it when I looked it up it was for B Brady will they have to do a name change or does it does the name if you look up the permit on it says b Brady's on there that's the one I was referring to that happened pretty soon after the storm yes if it's a different business we need to have them come in um get the proper application get the owner of the unit or of the entire complex to sign off on it but more importantly this uh new business would need to provide us their health certificate and go through uh the standard Fire review as well because ostensibly that was done for Bob Brady's setup so they couldn't just do a name change and then still go through the fire it has to be a whole separate right ostensibly what beob Brady was proposing as as far as their large trailer setup is going to be different from what uh this applicant needs plus again we we need to get the approval from uh Department of Health that they're in compliance with that okay so I guess to the vice mayor's point the easiest thing would to have the the property owner come in talk to you guys get the ball rolling yes we can we can e get that done yep beautiful all right thank you very much you're welcome that's all I have okay where did I say this wayson so speaking of this food truck conversation um our LPA chair Anita Saras asked for a discussion if you will or a joint meeting to discuss how we wanted this ordinance to really look and what it was intended to be so I'm just proposing that we have that conversation sooner than later because I think we're going to be seeing a huge I think they were going to add it to the M&P is that for this M&P because we have the safety that we added added we didn't discuss when this was going to be oh that's right the safety was what I safety was added but we didn't discuss when well that's a separate meeting outside the MMP though the joint meeting is a separate meeting directly after your MMP is a joint session with Public Safety this Thursday seven can can we add it to the following M&P to Karen's point just so give people a little heads up and time and I think we're April so you know how many I mean we're looking at the possibility of all kinds of food trucks coming in between in the next 30 days if you want to do it this Thursday that's fine I just I thought you were hesitant to do it so quickly no no I I would love to do it this quickly I think it's a very urgent discussion that we need to have totally fine with that okay do you want that discussion even if we cannot get the LPA here or you just want to discuss the ordinance and then a joint session later I think I don't think minita mentioned the joint session I think she just wanted one she just wanted a discussion to one of the issue address yeah I mean if PA members can be there that would be a bonus but I just think we need to discuss it thank you that's all I can we characterize that correctly Don you weren't literally SE seeking a joint meeting you just wanted wanted the issue addressed right okay okay Scott I have nothing uh all right I just have a couple quick things in our conversations with Lee County this week um they were talking about opening up Crescent Park we talked to them also about getting a temporary lighting solution from the base of the bridge down to the Lan Kai and what that looks like yet we don't know so they're looking at that for us um also on the conversation they they raised something that kind of caught my ears and I thought I'd bring it up today that sounds like they're going to be looking for a new place for the lran trolleys um is there any is there any will of the council to off if we don't have any use for it at this point the town hall property that is not being used to to to help be good neighbors and uh I think that I think that'd be great we we were going to turn into some parking with a a tram stop anyhow so I think that would just kind of fall right in place because I don't know anything we're going to do in the next year yeah because they said they were looking for a a place to store and they were talking about at the base of the bridge there once where the roundabout is so I justum them see where they're at now makes more sense but so if everybody's okay with that to we can get them throw some money in there to help us sift the sand and get you know we'll talk we can talk to them I think I don't know when they have to be off the fire District's property but I'm guessing it's probably pretty soon okay and then the other thing is uh Frankie if you can we're starting to get the emails about the the direction that was given to staff for the unsafe structures and and where we're at with that sure Mr Mayor uh Nancy and myself um we looking at two different ways the going back a few meetings ago when you had given us the edict that you wanted to plan in place and to get our marching order ERS and be out in the community uh it made more sense and more fiscal sense and practical sense uh for the town to uh we have a building official on staff uh he within the powers of the state that g the state gives him the powers to go ahead and for lack of a better term red tag Properties or unsafe structures so that's well within his power well within his purview we just wanted to make sure that we he was still following the same edict that we had discussed as far as this the structures that we had given Council um or at least talked about so what we're currently doing now is our building official Joe spec has been going out in the community looking at these structures re-evaluating making his documentation at the same time uh with staff we are putting our RFP out um soon as soon as we get find out how many structures we're actually dealing with here and uh that'll be a 30-day RFP we'll be able to rock and roll you have to give pretty much 45 day notice on an unsaved structure before you can after it's red Tagg so it all falls into place and we should be going by the end of April with tearing down our Dem uh in the demo business let's put it that way so the RFP can't go out concurrent with it it can it can I mean because I'm guessing this is going to be an ongoing RFP it's not going to be a correct 10 houses here no no no no no no so I mean I would like to see that RFP go out while Joe is doing his work and that's kind of what we're working on we're trying to find language from there's a few other municipalities in Florida south Florida especially that have dealt with this since Ian and we're currently trying to use language that they used in their scope to help us get our RFP out and not specifically about unsafe structures but properties that have just been abandon and corrects are open is that fall within that unsafe structure as well even though there's no structure there Property Maintenance or so that does okay all be it would be all encompassing whether there a structure there or not I mean Becky can jump in but I think we follow the universal building or Universal Property uh right can never remember that one either I could I could mix up on that as well but in there out lies how the stuffs you have to follow and things like that and we're well within that moving forward okay so we don't really know date yet but you're saying by April hopefully we originally told you by February 1st that we would have everything out so yes I would say by by tax day we'll be we'll be out and having a vendor that could be a bad day for us selected okay that's all I had there's anything else is there a resiliently Le update since it's it's on there or was that just no I didn't put it on there but um let's see let's go back we um we had a meeting last week of the resiliently Le committee um it was to approve the overarching scope that Lee County had presented from their take on resilient Lee and then it broke it down into all of the municipalities um both sanabelle and Fort Meyers Beach amended that um plan because we thought we needed more detail based on what it our situation was what it happened to our islands and our communities and so we submitted that ahead of this resolution and it was all accepted from us both on this uh Santa Bell and Fort Meers Beach so with that update we approved the plan uh I I think the next I can't honestly can't remember the next date I know there's another meeting coming up in April for next steps I don't we don't even have that layout of what is happening in next steps yet but all of our um submissions and uh addendums to what they wrote were accepted okay anything else there motion to adjourn move to adjourn I'll second all those in favor say signify by saying I I I opposed we are adjourned at 153