e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] e e e [Music] moving on my first reaction is what and I understand there are we and see what we get a lot of a lot ofs a lot of public property we first here in8 on beach so we've been here for a lot of years we own our house in Connecticut since 2001 kind as the south end of the island was condos then we did residential and then we did downtown and this is what's going to start popping up everywhere just I'm expressing my opinion that we need to take a hard look at it um let's talk about some projects that Pro a lot ofense think what happens what makes sense well it's a great project enough paring space you will e e e e e e e e e for why we take all in I think our system is portable no we have take the speak we took all this that the speaker that wasn't I would not allow I thought we put the portable Speak oh from Parks and well that was a nice setup did they did they record it is that going to be sh somewhere is that on our YouTube channel it's on our website how convenient by the way I'm the principal now it's fair don't be try to soon as you open your mouth it's somewhere now it's record okay now we're good it all right we'll we that's all I have signed up for public comment okay good sounds like we've got the sound back out there for the public too um going to continue public comment is there anyone else that'd like to speak in public comment come on up some reason my timer sound changed all right good morning everyone Jim bouis um just thank you again for everything you guys do um and we also want to thank the the sheriff and all the deputies that were here on Labor Day on directing traffic I also sat in a lot of traffic that day and I I noticed that they were you know directing traffic under a street light that wasn't working and I was trying to question like what do they actually doing when actually the light could have worked um and they were given a lot of primary um again people walking across the street so they're stopping a lot of traffic all and people cross the street so what I want to do is encourage um the the council here to continue to work with either the sheriff's or Lee County to plan that light accordingly so you know when outbound traffic from 4 to 6 you know would be a great time to maybe extend the amount of cars going off CU what happens is people get frustrated when they're sitting traffic and bad things happen um you know that's when people cut off people trying to cross the roads and so on so you know it's one thing I'd just like to encourage the town to continue to look at that light um by Margaritaville and crescent and you know could be some solutions there you guys can work through so thank you right thanks J is there anyone else that would like to speak in public comment seeing none we'll close public comment local achievements and recognition is councelor King I'll pass vice mayor edal I have if if people would indulge me a sec I've got a little bit of a lengthy item here this morning but it's kind of historical for Island uh Bren and I were members of Chapel By the Sea church before Ian hit and obviously the church has been torn down we just received a letter all the all the members of Chapel By the Sea received a letter uh dated May 24th dear Chapel By the Sea family of faith our prayerful motion to dissolve the congregation of Chapel By the Sea effective September 30th 2024 was affirmed by the majority vote those of us on the commission that's the entity the hierarchy that made the decision we're saddened by the necessity of the decision but our long our year-long analysis supported and confirmed this reality and then the letter goes on it says as I just think that people might find this of interest as as reported earlier the mahogany cross dolphin window bells and baptismal font are in climate control storage the ship's Bell has been loaned to Cypress Lake Presbyterian Church to open services and the Chimes have been loaned to Faith Presbyterian church I thought uh Jacob if you could put up those pictures I've got some pictures that I took after the storm of Chapel that that that'll be illustrative of some of the things I'm going to talk about poor Jacob's had his hands full this morning um but but while I while he's looking for those pictures I uh there's some historical facts about Chapel By the Sea that I think are really interesting because the this church was the oldest church on Fort Meers Beach they first met in a pavilion at at the Red Coconut Park uh then in various homes on boats and even in a casino until constructing the Island's first church building in 1938 they helped to start sister churches on the island they hired a Roman Catholic priest to come to serve Catholic mass beginning in 1945 and continuing until the Catholic Church of the Ascension was organized in the 1950s the church bell was rescued from the scrapyard during World War II what would have been used to make bullets became used to announce worship services on the island it was installed in the Bell Tower by soldiers from pagefield in 1942 and is and was on display in the norx of the sanctuary they always would ding it before the service would start uh the the church also served as the community's first movie theater in 1942 which I did not know uh the uh the oh there there we go the uh this this is a shot of the sanctuary of the church after Ian and it gives you a sense of of of the the dolphin stained glass window that that survive the storm and Jacob if you could go to the outside shot of the of the of the stained glass window uh there's two more pictures give you a sense of I mean this this church was on the as as many places were on at the at the uh right in the there we go and just gives you a sense of the destruction and then Jacob there's one more that that's from the outside obviously and it gives you a sense of that you can see that stained glass window up there Untouched by the storm given there you go that's that's the most dramatic shot quite honestly gives you a sense of of just the damage that was done internally but look how that stained glass window again I I see that that stained glass window is a sign of Hope and the fact that that survived the storm is really a miracle and I think a great encouragement uh to the Future the uh the pipe organ was added in if you ever been in the church a massive beautiful pipe organ was added in 1994 but only after great difficulty after writing a check to the mer Oregon company that company declared bankruptcy inv investors tried to revive the company which had made organs for Camp David the Air Force Academy chapel and many other of the nation's largest churches they were able to construct only a few organs before they finally closed shop forever Chapel was one of the last two merer organs ever made in 2005 Chapel By the Sea suffered from over $1.5 million in damage from Hurricane Charlie the original dolphin Trinity window which you see here uh was destroyed the center of the window showing a ship with a cross shaped Mast miraculously survived and was placed in the pulpit in like a ship-like Pulpit uh in in the front of the church that's the uh that's the surviving dolphin uh uh stained glass window which is again currently in a climate controlled storage area uh I I I took the liberty and I've not discussed I made I made sure they understood that I've not discuss discussed this with the council Al though I did talk with Frankie a little bit about it I asked I made a request to see if it would be possible for the town of Fort Meers beach in our in our new town hall should we should we acquire which it looks like we're going to do if we could if we could have that stained glass window and display it somewhere in in the new town hall as a as a historical preservation piece uh and and and maybe put a little plaque next to it just explaining the history of the church and so forth so I just I I I wrote a letter to the to the hierarchy of the church I copied all the members of the church um and I just wanted to let my colleagues know that obviously we'd want get your support of that but before I even bring it to your attention I we've got to get the permission from the church to to to kind of have that on loan for Fort Meers Beach and that they have a they have a committee of folks that are running the assets uh uh and overlooking the assets of the church right now and determining how to disseminate those assets and so I've made an appeal to that entity itself to see if that's possible so to the folks that Chapel by the uh C church both current members and the members that over the many many years on Fort Meers if I could paraphrase from the good book well done good and Faithful Servants that's all I've got thank you all right Council Woodson um just quickly I just want to remark I was gone for 10 days and came back this weekend and every time you leave and you come back you see more progress more things being done more cleanup being done painting of houses you know new new construction started so um the progress continues and I want everyone to know that you know take a step back and really look around because you will see tons of progress going right anything else nope concer saff um yeah I'd like to give a shout out to FNB strong um congratulating them on on on their award from Southwest Florida Inc I mean there's so many great nonprofits in Southwest Florida and for them to be HED like that is a true true Testament so congratulations well you stole my thunder uh I just had one other thing just just a reminder that we are in hurricane season um want to thank Senator Scott and his team for coming down last week to to the rude shrimp to just kind of do their press conference to remind everyone of the resources available um as we said in the in the in the press conference our staff is going to do everything they can they're working really well with the local municipalities Le County Sheriff's Office and the fire district to make sure you have everything that you need but at the end of the day it comes down to you it's it's your it's your life it's your family it's your kids it's your pets it's your your belongings we can give you everything that you need but it comes down to you to get out of Dodge when something's coming so heed the warnings be prepared and uh let's pray for nothing to come our way again next we have a presentation Mr Ron book see you sitting back there for those that don't know Mr book is our lobbyist up in Tallahassee mayor members of the council Mr manager good to see you and thank you um I want to at least start by recognizing both Ron Brown and Gabby Navaro from The Firm who do most of your work I get all the recognition and they do all the work so I wanted to certainly start by recognizing both of them I know all of you know him and thank you um let me start by saying thank you mayor thank you Mr manager I mean the support that we have gotten from you other members of the council the manager the former manager uh Jason um at the end of the day you make our job it's easier as far as advocating on your behalf um Governor has not acted on the budget yet let's be cautiously optimistic um hard to do better than what you did when you think about where all of the post storm things were mayor I think that there were questions as to whether or not we would ever be meaningfully successful in an appropriation for a new town hall the fact that you got the full request funded um which was for those that uh that are less familiar in the audience was an $8 million ask it was an $8 million appropriation the leadership of of Senate President pasido Senator John Martin representative bana who never stopped advocating on your behalfs the entire delegation I'm remiss if I don't recognize people like Bob Ramo and people like representative Jenna person Mika the the the entire group of Southwest Florida lawmakers who pull on your behalf but the sponsors of the items were bana and Martin padona put a thumb print on everything um I think when you look at the uh the recognition of lost revenue and whether or not they were going to ultimately reimburse the city for all of what we could verify and validate were lost Revenue that was another seven 05 a little over 7 and a half million for that and then you've got the resiliency grants that are about to be approved as well in the uh in the budget um you've got the storm water Swale Improvement installation which is a 5.1 million project of which we've got a 50% match up on that you talk about meaningful significant and substantial thank you for the opportunity there are things that did happen that weren't good I mean I think all of us recognize there's a continued attack substantively on home rule powers of local governments I think what's happening uh continuing to happen on vacation rentals and the like none of which are good but I do think there's an opportunity for a veto that may still happen on that piece of legislation I think you've got to look at the fact that while there was an attack on sovereign immunity again this year by increasing the limits uh that got defeated I think that will be another battle that we will have to fight in the next year but the by and large it was a great year for the city um we thank you for the opportunity to Advocate on your behalf we don't have a lot of local governments where the those if you will that are responsible for advocating sort of as an altero of an entire local government the manager and the mayor have just been there constantly constantly constantly and and I just I can't thank you all enough and Jason's been compl completely responsive to the things that that ra calls about on a regular basis you notice I said ra again because if I don't recognize them again then I get kicked and then they don't come to work the next week and then I got to fend for myself um but our entire team just thanks you for again for the opportunity I'm happy to answer questions as you know we're in an election cycle we are in a late legislative session back to March April this next year and we'll see where we are but with that mayor thank you well thank you Ron and Ron G you guys you're the rock stars back there and Ron takes all the credit but uh we see you guys more than we see Ron but uh when it's time to see Ron he he makes an appearance and and uh people know when he walks through the door so we we appreciate all your help and getting us and the guidance to get us to where we've gotten so far over the last couple of years uh John any questions for Ron no but thank you for your efforts VI mayor uh thank you for being here Ron I would commend the mayor and our team here and our legislative delegation your efforts I think it was a fabulous legislative session and my question to you is it it all hinges on the governor signing the budget and you any advice to the residents here can is it is it helpful to have them write the governor in a very friendly respectful positive way is it best just to let the process work any advice that so we leave no stone left unturned well look we've still probably got another 10 days before he acts on the budget here has until June 30th to act we thought he was going to act sooner than now he has delayed he's working on other bills bills still coming to him on a regular basis I think it's always good when folks write letters to the governor asking him to sign off on Appropriations and or substantive bills the fact of the matter is that without the reimbursement for lost Revenue without the replacement Revenue without the money for the town hall you all know where you would be you know where you wouldn't be as what I should say and I think that message gently to the governor is a positive message thanking him for the past support and encouraging approval of these I think that's a good thing to do again we've got a lot of folks listening Ron if you were to help folks fashion a letter it's always best to come from the heart probably they should share their experience of of going through hurricane Ian but then again help them phrase the letter in a way that would be most appropriate and most effective look I think the the fact of the matter is that you were at Ground Zero the fact of the matter is is that the community has struggled to recover but is recovering on their own the fact of the matter is we have a loss of infrastructure resources that are necessary and needed and we would encourage that continued support by approving the two legislative Appropriations plus the resiliency grants I would frankly not worry about the resiliency grants because I think they're going to happen no matter what but I think encouraging the need to have that town hall rebuilt as quickly as possible as a if if you will a focal point in our community and for the continued recovery from an economic uh uh tourism perspective I think that's the message I I think it's keep it simple thank you thank you councelor Woodson I just appreciate everything that you've been doing and um keep up the great work thanks thank you ccor Safford I'd like to ACC those sentiments as well thank you so much thank youon I think that is the world record for the shortest speech you've ever given here thank you thanks again Ron next we have Michael Allen he's president of the revital development thanks guys morning everybody Town Council Mr Mayor Mr vice mayor Town management probably wonder one I'm here because uh this is about revital development but uh the presentation will show that Allen Development Group is included in that and I wanted to get up and say something a little bit personal first um you know I've been involved on the beach for quite a while and everybody's heard my um comments about Housing and Development uh we've done quite a bit since the storm and even before the storm uh since the storm you know a lot of things have transpired from a leadership standpoint and Allen Development Group has had the opportunity to be involved in probably a 100 projects in Southwest Florida when it comes to beach Redevelopment and I've made this clear to everybody that blisten including seeing some of you guys out at events um we are pouring all our resources into the beach and that window into the beach from Iona McGregor because I feel like your leadership has been impeccable I think it has been extremely respectable on a national scale I enjoy working with every one of you guys and U you know Allen development is a good partner for you guys and I want to be a good partner going forward so thank you very much for your leadership um Mike's here uh today is uh he's my brother and you'll see that we have the last name and it's not by coincidence and um it's going to be involving one of the most um discussed misunderstood and polarizing concepts of construction which is affordable housing and um for those of you that have followed you know Beach talk radio videos uh um posts on affordable housing and my comments to follow you know a lot of these other land owners on the beach have been discussing Workforce housing Mike and I have been involved in Workforce housing discussions with Lee County especially Lee County School District since 2016 and it's become almost impossible to achieve that so when we hear developers in town discuss Workforce housing there's almost an immediate stop because it just simply doesn't work with the cost of construction the cost of land and the different dynamics of it affordable housing is totally different and Mike's going to be here to discuss what that is um you know a lot of things that uh have a stigma with affordable housing I think you're going to see the nimi people which are not in my backyard uh people relate to affordable housing is something totally different and it's honestly not um affordable housing is a sliding scale based on income to where your rent's going to be uh it's resembles Class A development and um you know I'm pretty sure that folks in here like the Millers who are business owners uh would appreciate um a higher level of service from uh from their servers that have a place to live don't have to be rent burdened by spending 50% of their income on housing and have a different option that can there where they can stay on the beach and live happily and raise a family so um I just wanted to kind of get into that uh introduce introducing Mike he's one of the most successful apartment developers in Lee County he's responsible for being part of the development team of over a, housing units uh since 2019 he's a developer of sevas which is a 90 unit apart affordable housing development on pin Ridge Road in Cape Coral that's about to open uh shortly and he's been awarded several others and I don't know what the title that he has but um he was uh appointed by all five Commissioners to manage the cdbg drr funds uh which he was recused by U himself it was an agreement between himself and the Commissioners because I think the discussion was had where is Mike more valuable working with the application process of the cdbg funds or is Mike more valuable being a developer of the housing that we really need in Southwest Florida and I think collectively they made the decision that he's more valuable here on the streets to develop so he was recused from that position so he can continue to move forward it was an amical decision between uh Commissioners and Mike so with that I want to say thank you again for your leadership anything that I can do to support the beach you know you've got and I want to introduce Mike Allen behind me thanks Scott good morning uh excuse me for the record again it's Michael Allen revital development pull that mic up a little bit would you thanks there you go hello better yeah all right there you go for the record it's Michael Allen revital Development Group um good morning to Mr mayor council members uh I want to just kind of echo Scott's comments in terms of your efforts and what you guys have done in the recovery so far from Ian you guys have done a fantastic job we've been monitoring and watching it we're heavily involved in Lee County um I know Scott's much more involved with the beach area but we we still watch the meetings and and involved you guys have done a tremendous job so we appreciate that um as uh Scott mentioned we're we're looking to talk about today I think it was at the planning meeting the last planning meeting the potential proposed Redevelopment of the Town Hall site which would include three Parcels um outline there which we'll outline a little bit further on so I'm just going to kind of go through it um really kind of brief General overview and then any questions and answers you guys may have as well happy to address is this there we go all right so just a quick overview so again um we're looking to develop the site in partnership with Allen development bringing in their local knowledge and resources as well we often um work closely with the local communities in terms of the products we want to deliver um what we're proposing is a public private partnership with the town of Fort Meers Beach to Redevelopment the former Town Hall site uh again it'll consist of three Parcels a little bit over two acres um we'll we propose to work closely with the design with the town and construct a mixed use development um just like all our other developments um which is extremely important here with a the recently hurricane impacted area we utilize Concrete Construction uh other features such as meeting all the national uh Green Building certification code so be green green building so long-term sustainability um The Proposal would include anywhere from 60 to 80 um attainable housing units which we could touch on as well later on in terms of like the area meaning income and rent limits um we would for the multi family have an elevated house or or unit so it would be multiple stories above parking um with an out parcel for commercial which we um are proposing or looking into doing on ground floor for the walkability factor um the architect we're working with is one we've worked on almost exclusively with the exception of a couple projects over the past couple years PDS architecture they Fort Meers based um probably the most experienced and and providing the most designed for multif family in Lee County over the past several years as well um again we're we're proposing 60 to 80 attainable housing units which all the units would be at least 120% of the area Medi income or below that's households earning that that income limit um a minimum of 51% % of the units would be allocated to households earning 80% of the area median income or below again we'll touch on that later that's one of the requirements for the cdbg disaster recovery funds that we'd be proposing to apply for um the thought was to have a ground lease structure with the town so the town maintains ownership of the land and then we own the improvements it would be a long-term 99e ground lease at $10 a year we have a similar structure in Cape Coral Scott mentioned it as well uh cidus of Cape Coral what we did there is we actually brought the housing authority of Lee County into the project we were awarded funds from the state of Florida which was cdbg Disaster Recovery funds related to Hurricane Irma so very similar structure brought the Housing Authority in to acquire the land and then do a ground lease for us at that 99 year $10 a year for the sole purpose of maintaining affordability and perpetuity therefore once we exit the property if we ever do then you know anybody wants to change it to market rate they they'd have to get the approval of the of the Housing Authority even above and beyond on the agreements that we have that are tied to the land um in addition to that so the building itself um we you'll see we have a couple renderings couple conceptual ideas as well we we're having three to four stories above of residential above parking with a one-story commercial out parcel along the stero Boulevard uh the site address you guys are all familiar with um the zoning currently is allows for mixed use zoning within within the Civic Center U of the future land use the underlying zoning allows for the commercial retail restaurant use as well and currently the maximum density is 6 units per acre so we'd have to come in for some variances on on density and um potentially height depending on what we end up going with on terms of unit mix as well the uh the site elevation currently the site from what we're seeing is about 5 ft right now and and the FEMA flood zone is about 11 uh it's a ae1 so again we'd either have to bring in a bunch of fill or Elevate as you guys all know um so that's where we're bringing in elevated houses parking underneath and then proposing like a dry flood proof for the commercial retail on the out parcel as well again that's all contention upon design and and local and and um like Florida Water Management District approvals if needed as well just a quick idea in terms of like a site conceptual plan um here's how it would potentially lay out with the sterile Boulevard um there we'd have the retail parcel to the the to the front and then it kind of steps up to the multif family which we'll show you a little bit as well um towards that backside we don't have it designed but we're we're talks and again we talk to the community talk to the council members and staff uh talking about maybe a small Park some green space uh and then the back parcel as well could add to add to parking or again Green Space Park uh another amenity for the actual development itself or the or the surrounding Beach Community this is uh again this is going to be like a first floor I'll go through like we have a conceptual plan which is five stories so four stories over over parking is conceptually designed here um this would be the first first level which will be have the parking um depending on the parking requirements we've talked about as well as conceptually removing the parking from underneath here having it more of an amenity space or uh kind of a hybrid of the two where we can have either you know like a covered Dog Park area or Community Center um we can have a leasing office as well depending on like the elevations and the dry flood proofing so that's just conceptually what it would be underneath the building the first floor again um would be all residential buildings um as currently designed and then we have the rooftop of the commercial place um or commercial parcel which we've shown as an outline that has more of an outdoor rooftop living as well um the one of the other things that we've talked about for not only that that second story of the multi is maybe carving out some of the units as well um we talked about having like an emergency Operation Center as well like an EOC depending on the funding that's available for uh local disaster recoveries again for you guys and the staff again to work out of again it's all going to be a matter of financing and and how we can offset those costs but just something that we've talked about as far as conceptually that'll obviously have an impact on the unit count that we could potentially propose as well and then the third and fifth bu third fourth and fifth levels will all be the same all multif family um Comon of one two and three bedrooms is how we have it designed at the moment um renderings this is how kind of the rendering is what we would what we would Envision at the moment based off those Footprints you could see it's uh the underground parking there and then four stories above again depending on the unit count which I gave that range we could drop that to three stories above parking or maintain the four um the front edge on esta we have for single story commercial as as mentioned and then it steps up to the multi Family behind that as well increasing the the the walkability of the area if we can go back back one uh again just another view so this is the side and then now Frontage of of a sterile Boulevard and now the next one will be more of an aerial so you can see uh the potential if we have um an above rooftop level so that is the conceptual design as well on the on the commercial if we were to have outdoor living space or um of activity space as well you can make it a a nice attraction for the overall Beach Community as well to get an idea in terms of sense for the air me income and Rental limits when we talk about the Ami that's adjusted annually by Hud across the board so Lee County right now is HUD calculates it as one and a half person per bedroom um you can see the different levels of area meeting income so the 60% 80% 120 um again it's matter depending on the amount of households per individuals per household and that's children grandparents everybody that resides in that household and then the bedroom count as well in terms of the monthly rent that's that's if we're using HUD financing which is what we would anticipate that's what we would propose for the county Disaster Recovery funds um those are the gross rents one of the nice features of affordable housing as well is it's say it's gross cuz what we do is we either provide we either pay or provide an allowance to the tenants for utilities so electric water and sewer so they're not having to pay those or they pay above and beyond anything that we provide an allowance for and the allowance is based on a third-party annual report on an energy consumption model as well so it should be sufficient to cover their uh electrical use in water and sew as well so uh helps for that affordability factor and helps to contribute to them paying only 30% of their gross meeting um their gross M before you go on from this your other slide you said 51% would have to be at the 80% Ami and then the other 49% would be at the 120 they can be so base base requirements for the program is 51% of the units have to be 80% or below um and then the other 49% can be whatever you want it could be market rate could be 100% they could be all 80% uh so you can you can essentially have all 100% all all units 80% area Medi income are below um where you can blend it as well so that's where more kind of what you guys are looking for in terms of the council and staff and the community and and what's the real need in terms of the workforce here where where's our income levels that'll help Drive what we're our our our structure as well um what we're what we're seeing as well so the the 120 the 120 and below the 80 to 120 is that what typically considered that Workforce housing um um what we see a lot in in a lot of areas in Florida including Lee County is that 120% a median income the rental limits are pretty close to market rate um sometimes they exceed market rate as well so that's one of the things to to be mindful of and something that we take in consideration as well when we're looking at uh projects and development as well so Mike I have a question too so and I I could be getting way too much in the weeds but can you prioritize um the res Ence of people living and working on the beach versus people coming in that don't work on the beach yeah it's a good question um unfortunately we can't um because we have it's fair housing so fair housing act is will be a um violation of Fair Housing Act there's certain programs that you could provide preference for in terms of um different um like workforces or their U protected classes for example so um special needs um CH children aging out of foster care that's one for example um you can do as long as you there's certain like approaches that you could do in terms of like Market studies um to carve out a preference for um like First Responders uh police firefighters and so forth um to provide them a preference but you still have to make sure you're bu and bu fair housing um but one of the things you can't do is based off of where they they actually live and work I can you just give the cont with my interc here as far as I see a lot of the service industry come up Scott you got to come up oh I'm sorry read rules sorry I'd like Mike to make an example I think the service industry and there's people in this room that know better than I do but I'm going to make an example of say um uh um a teacher uh and I forget what the Lee County School District um uh salaries are but maybe let's use like a um like an 80% Ami and tell them what that say a single parent can get a one a two-bedroom for just to kind of put it into context um so yeah so it's uh it's it's outlined there on the bottom chart there which is the rent so as long as you're within those those income levels if you're renting a one-bedroom that's our caps based off the 2024 rental uh limits so if they qualify for the 80% area mean income and it's a two-bedroom as long as they're within 80% on the income level um then it's sorry my eyes are getting blurry 1684 uh on on the monthly rent is what they would be paying um and then we would again either pay for or add an allowance for those utilities um and it's based off of a household so again if it's in that scenario that Scott mentioned a single parent with two children it's a household of three then it's 67,000 3 360 is is what they would be be making on on an annual level so how does it work if someone is just under that 80% Ami and then they get a raise and it takes them over the top of that yeah no that's a good question as well so so one of the main um reasons for this program progr and and other Federal programs or state programs as well is to kind of better individuals livelihoods as well just overall not just provide the housing they know housing is a a main contributor to healthc care and everything else along those lines but it's not hey you guys have done a great job now you're getting more money see you later you got to go find some somewhere else to provide uh one of the things that we provide in all our communities as well which we could touch on also is some some resident services they're free of charges to the residents um they're optional um so we do like an employment assist program so we train residents as far as anything from preparing a a resume conducting themselves in a job interview maintaining a job um financial literacy courses so how to balance a checkbook all the way to budgeting so we do all that stuff not to kind of make sure they they they increase their their income and move on but once they do that there's a threshold it's about 150% that if they they move up then they get their rent adjusted but not to not to the levels that it would be 150% increase and they don't have to to move out of the as well so that's whole whole kind of the whole part of the point program is they have that ability to move up and then once they exceed that threshold then hopefully they're able to acquire a house or move into a market rate development I often say that our turnover is a lot less than like a market rate development and when market rate which we used to do a lot of we've done little little under 2,000 here in Lee County used to be okay now we have to fill this vacancy on these developments it's more like a celebration cu the individuals lived there longer they've kind of bettered themselves as well in their position and now they're moving on to home owners ship more often so any other questions or me to continue okay [Music] continue do I control this or so timeline is uh just again projected timeline this is more specific to the the residential component cuz we could separate the residential and the commercial as well um this is specific to the CBG Disaster Recovery funds that they have the application here in Lee County um they have a quickly quick approaching deadline is June 26th um and that's for the multif family um new construction or renovation funds they have 150 million which they've allocated for that um we would be looking to apply for that and they make their decisions or supposed to go to the board of County Commissioners on um September 3rd for their decisions so assuming we apply and get that here's kind of how the timeline would would play out based off of plans engineering plan review permitting and then construction timeline we should be able to deliver to units around September of 2026 this is just a little bit about us um and our company um and Scots company Allen Development Group as well um I think we've kind of touched on it for the most part but again we' we've developed just a little under 2,000 units here in in Lee County we are Tampa based I mean our focus is continues to be Lee County I'm down here quite frequently L um in fact I think we only have two projects currently outside of Lee County and they're the only two I've done in my career outside of Lee County so it is continues to be our our primary focus um currently we have about 300 a little over 330 attainable housing units under construction or in permitting and the bulk of those about 250 are are here in Lee County um those are all affordable um 80% of the area median income are below um I can show you a couple examples um on those on some next slides as well so we're very familiar with the state local and federal uh financing programs as well this again uh is myself and my brother um we share the same last name we don't share the same looks so lot or hairstyle or or hair as well yeah that's right um so as you can see you know we have a we've done a lot I think even our market rate development here in Lee County has all included some type of local or federal funding so you know we did Grand Central uh um in Fort in Fort Meers we HUD 221 D4 um you know a lot of other um projects we either use tax increment financing down in the city of Fort Meers or uh deferred impact fees or nutrient Bank credits or something along those lines on the affordable aspect it's it's pretty much any any federal or state program you can think of we've we've utilized in terms of housing um our cave coral one I mean that that's gone through Co inflation I think we have probably 12 different fun funding sources on that one so it's that's what happens sometimes you got to mix them all together and make sure they all duvail but we have a high level of knowledge in all those programs as well couple examples these are these are renderings so you see in the top left that's the vus of Cape Coral that's three residential buildings um we we try to kind of rival or or appear as if they're they're market rate development so the idea is and one of our missions is to to to get rid of the stigma in terms of the the appearance of affordable housing um being being kind of low end and also the ongoing operations of it as well so and and the individuals that that reside there so sidus of Cape Coral we're looking to deliver those later this summer again we use cdbg Disaster Recovery tied to Hurricane Irma it's three residential buildings it's got a massive 6,000 foot Clubhouse swimming pool uh on-site amen's fitness center and so forth um within the next 30 days or so we'll be breaking ground on 160 units in North Fort Meers which is Hermosa North Fort Meers um that's a two-phase development we'll be starting them pretty close to the same time uh within 90 days of each other it's 160 units total it's for seniors earning up to 60% of the area Med median income are below we have some carve outs are even lower uh 33 40% and 22% of the area median income um and we're providing a preference to Veterans there so that that'll be an exciting program or project as well uh on the bottom right that's one of our atam Market really small rural it's Hermosa Arcadia that's that's in Arcadia next to the high school 27 units will be opening that here in the next 60 days or so and then just an example of um one of the market rate developments that we've did and that was the last market rate development we were involved with West End at CityWalk it was 318 unit market rate development in downtown Fort Meers on McGregor next to the Publix and that's that's our our company information if anybody has any questions you can reach out after the after the meeting or happy to address any that you may have right now all right questions for Mike um John N Vice mayle mik just we got a full agenda today and I appreciate you being here just just to get away from the PowerPoint for a second the The Proposal that you have envisioned for Fort Meers Beach what's the overall cost of building that that structure ballpark man um this ballpark yeah we're uh we're probably on the resident on the on the commercial side there's a lot of variables in there um and then on the on the commercial side we're probably I don't know we might be close to 300,000 a unit it's expens it'll be expensive what's the aggregate cost of The Proposal just so people have a ballpark number is it 10 25 50 I what's the million what's the what's just ballpark I I I'm asking it to illustrate it some additional questions so just give me a b yeah in excess of 30 million okay so that 30 million does that come from HUD um no so we would use break that down for me yeah so we and so we we would have to break it down in a couple senses so I'll Focus just on the multif family because with with the HUD financing the cdb gdr um the commercial is ineligible so you can't do a mixed use we got to separate the two so on the on on the HUD financing with the county requirements we can request up to $20 million per project not to exceed 250,000 per unit forgive me Mike when you say HUD financing is this a grant or a loan so from the county from the Lee County it has it's structured as a as a grant however on their solicitation that they put out they're allowed to put their overlays above and beyond of of Hud's requirement so they have a preference that the that is treated as like a soft loan so that soft loan has to get paid back prior to um the end of your affordability period if you want to maximize the points so there's aot L of different like scoring metric metrics that are involved so for example you're allowed to request up to 250,000 per unit but if you request 125 or below you get a little bit of a point adjustment um same thing if you're repaying your the loan within that affordability period then there's a preference in points as well so we would look to uh structure it as that soft loan I think um structured as as the grant it's uh there's going to be a lot of competition for him and I I don't think it would be um likely for Success so like a soft a soft loan 0% interest then paid back depending on the affordability period uh 30 50 plus years is there a Section 8 what the structures Builders there a Section 8 component to the to the operation um there's not so it all depends again it all depends on the structure that we end up doing so you on um on the projects that I mentioned there we use utilize um tax exempt bonds and low-income housing tax credits that's with that program it have to be 60% of the area medium income or below um or you use this um IRS code is called income averaging was uh introduced probably about 5 years or so ago which we did in C Coral so with that we have everything is 80% of the AA Med income and Below but with Cape Coral we have a blend so it's an average it's weight like a weighted average so we have 30 60 and 80% of the Aira Med income um all the units are treated the same one two and three bedroom units so if we were going to use low-income housing tax credits and tax exempt bonds we we'd abide by those requirements and we' include sex and8 um with the controls of that we've mentioned cuz I think I've heard during the last um town meeting or the planning meeting was not for low income but more Workforce so that's why I focused on that 80 to1 120 range so it would be um well I guess we would be open to it you'd have to still pass the um the the rent screening and and everything else that comes along to it okay thank you thank you for being here this morning yeah no thank you Council Woodson so you mentioned at the beginning that there's a deadline uh for submitting everything so that deadline is like in 3 weeks yeah do we need to decide one way or the other in three weeks so for the application we need to have a form of site control so site controling either a ground lease or a purchase and sale agreement um those can get amended in the future but in order for us to submit an application we need to have um one of those to be eligible as a threshold requirement and so when you said that the town still owns the land um and we're in a lease agreement but the town doesn't get involved in any kind of rental of these units Property Management anything like that we're basically providing the land yeah and and I only suggested that based off of some assumptions from past meetings that I've heard as well so to clarify it's really that ground Le structure is to kind of enforce any requirements and preferences you may have above and beyond any of the restrictions that we may have with the cdbg disaster recovery funds we're going to have a restrictive agreement which is going to require ire us to um abide by what we propose in our application so like in C coral for example we have an agreement with the city um with Florida Housing Finance Corporation but that expires after 50 years so with that in the in the and bringing in the Housing Authority we know that after that expires we know that was the approach with with having and perpetuity so if if if the town has preferences and doesn't want to be involved with that ownership structure then you can also have a a restrictive agreement that acts similar as well but but to answer the question there's no responsibility or requirement You' probably have to have some type of like general liability coverage I would assume um but in terms of any like tenant screening we would handle that through our management company any um qualifications any evictions any expenses that go along with it we would cover that as well um any property taxes or maintenance goes along with it so we would we would essentially lease the land from you take all liability of the land and then we'd have ownership of all the all the improvements on that land as well doesn't the town though have to audit you guys or who Who's Who audits you um we don't have to get a we don't have to get an audit so the and the the funding is a little bit different in terms of like the cdbg funds for the housing versus the infrastructure and public facilities and others as well where I think with those the town is actually the subrecipient and if if if the municipality or nonprofit is a subrecipient then they're treated anything above $750,000 they have to get an annual audit with us we would enter into a developer agreement with the county so we're not we're not we're not required to have that audit we go through cost certification process we're actually doing that right now in C Coral um based off of our financing but we don't have to go through a formal annual audit process as well okay thank you but is that something that the town could add into part of the lease is yeah absolutely you can I don't know if that's what you were kind of getting at Scott I just want to know how much the town has you know if we're going to need to hire more people to to watch over this to be involved with it I mean that's want to know what the town would be so for the I mean that's that's up to you but in terms of like the the auditing um we often we have um like reporting requirements so like on an annual basis we would be reporting to Lee County so um ultimately if you guys didn't want to have involvement and you had um say here here's requirements you want us to include and we include that in our proposal then it's going to be tied to Lee County then Lee County would monitor those as well we'd be responsible to provide the quarterly and annually annual requirements and reporting to Lee County they're actual sub recipient from HUD as opposed to coming in and having you guys as well so like on some of the applications that we'll be submitting um there is not a uh an involvement such as a town or municipality as well so we would be acquiring the land or we we already own the land or we have a nonprofit that owns the land and we would be submitting our applications so it's a little bit different than than the other funding for infrastructure and public facility as well you had mentioned something about insurance would you cover would would the town still have to have some liability insurance you I I would assume that's you probably should and you want to and we could add that as a as an expense in the ground lease as well so um any any expenses that you guys may have get passed can get passed through so it's all just a matter of like the business terms are outlined within the in the ground lease anything else I just had a couple questions outside of that the commercial part of it how does that work as far as who I think there's concern that the town would have to one have anything to do with managing any of this uh fin Financial costs obviously to the taxpayers how does the commercial side of it work because it's outside of the HUD you mentioned that it's outside the HUD financing part how would that work um well that that I think is all like an ongoing discussion as well because it depends on UL I would like to hear like what you guys would want to have there so if it's you know if you're looking to have like a community facility there that's not going to P pay rent or have have it rentree then it's obviously going to generate limits in to to no income um but if we were to bring in just a third party user and maximize the rent then we can talk on some type of Revenue share um I kind of Envision it as where it would be kind of separate entities but related where it may go to contribute to help pay down that HUD that HUD financing as well just be and just thinking about like performers and how they work with these restricted rent limits repaying the the amount over time is uh is it is it is difficult um because often times with that cdbg funds on the multif family should be or could be forgiven um because of the cash flow so having that offset and contribute to toward some some of that pay down would be helpful as well but I think I think that's probably an ongoing um discussion based off of uses what we end up doing so it would be you said cost sharing so the town could potentially make Revenue off of this project yeah at the same time OB matter of agreement yeah absolutely because we can and and so you can you can also do like a different like there's multiple structures as well so you guys can sell the land you can you know we work with different um nonprofits Community Land trusts or housing authorities that can do it if you want to uh transact with with with a nonprofit for example and then they enter into an agreement with us uh if you want to do like the ground lease structure where you got to stay involved you can do like a a master ground lease with sub leases so a sub lease for the multif family and a sub lease to the to the commercial out Outlet um parcel and then do like the revenue share or have the the the lease payment tied to the revenue of that as well in an that event maybe we do an audit or some type of review of those um Project Specific um financials so we could do it that way mayor wasn't during our M&P meeting what I thought we had talked about the second floor being like office space or yeah and I think you covered it a little bit at the beginning this what he showed is is you know you could do the third floor or the in this case if you had the fourth floor that could be an EOC or that could be office space or that could be a hardened structure that would that qualify for any kind of funding through FEMA mitigation funds we'd have to explore that route um quite honestly we haven't we we've never constructed one of those but it's just a matter of just finding the financing structure and putting it into the to the design and incorporating into design so as it stands I mean the Focus right now and how I did it just because it's kind of the unknown I know is on the items to discuss was just focusing on the disaster recovery funds for the multif family and then we can adjust that based off of what um Council and staff may may think is best again going back to height cuz that's going to impact the the unit mix if we incorporate something along those lines it'll impact the the unit count as well so it's really a matter of you know the feasibility and how we can offset the cost to to to to include it Becky have you had any dealings with with this kind of contracts and I don't know if I'm saying it the correct way but in dealing with the I mean because it is a time sensitive thing for the cdb is there contingencies that can be put in that the funding isn't approved then it falls back that kind of stuff um I believe Nancy's done some of these um down in the Naples area um but if we're talking about something that would be turned around in a couple weeks um you know this is that is a very valuable piece of property right and to have a decision that quickly um I don't know how that could really occur right so what happens Mike if I mean the 3 weeks is pretty pretty quick to make a decision without yeah including the public on the decide I um I I think without without the hurricane recovery funds from the county even if we were to meet that requirement I think it's all but for receiving those funds so um it would be a very difficult feat for us to do it without those funds so I think if we miss the deadline then we're going to be relying on the the hope that they come out with a a subsequent funding phase I know they are holding back1 $100 million or so so they very well could I think um I think quite honestly they're maybe it's it's going to be over subscribed so maybe they just put put the money towards the additional units that get applied I I'm I'm not sure that's a that's a question for the county and I'm not sure if they have that decision right now so I would say that if we miss the deadline then then the the probability of us moving forward with the proposal is is is very limited cuz is going to be relying on that and then if we can get the site control then it's going to be depending on receiving the funds from the county um but I can't say that we we have done ground leases where it is contingent upon receiving funding so we we've had like an effective date um based off when it's signed and then a commencement date on once it once it closes on construction or and and then it also terminates Upon A Certain like Milestone so that would be um the funding decision or something along those lines okay with regard to low income housing you know I've certainly been involved in something like that but I've never had a city actually donate the property for it well it's not donating it's leasing but it's leasing it for $10 a year that's a donation fair enough it it it is quite common in our in our business and not only throughout the state but in throughout the country in terms of like yeah contributing so and I could say based off the funding round that we got in the state with the the Cape Coral development as an example there just in that cycle alone there was um similar situations where the municipality owned the land and then contributed it um whether they just conveyed it to the to the development um entity or or they did the land Le structure as well right but um but I will say I know it's unfortunate in terms of the time um it is unfortunate in terms of like the hurricane and hopefully it was once in a lifetime hurricane I I quite honestly strongly believe that this is like a once in a generation opportunity you guys have a Val valuable piece of property as you mentioned um to build affordable Workforce housing is very difficult um as I mentioned with us even on the on the funding that's available on the state level that we compete with on an annual basis we we wouldn't be able to do it here um you know that's where you see some of the developments is North Fort Meers lands cheaper some of the building requirements are a little bit cheaper out there um the elevations that's that all uh contributes to it so the cost to construct per unit here we we quite honestly wouldn't be able to do it so I I do think it's a it it is a onetime opportunity for the long and short-term cure for the housing need in my opinion well Mike no if there's no other anybody any other questions for Mike I have just one so if just say in a perfect world this all went through and we had these units and everything at any point could this be changed into any form of housing or how what do you have to pay back for that or how does that all work yeah so the way that the um the kind of the county overlays on top of the the the HUD financing requirement so if you transfer the property it's going to trigger repayment so the way that it's structured right now if you do it as a loan the loan has to be repaid at the end of of affordability they're required a a minimum affordability period of 30 years if you transfer the property sell the property within that period of time it's going to trigger repayment so that that will all be due and I I believe that the that the land use restriction for affordability will still remain I mean that's a more of a question for the county so uh there's really not much of an incentive for a developer to sell the property um to to then convert it to market rate or something else you typically need to have those all those land use restrictive agreements expire in order to do that or go back to the source which would be Lee County and and and the Hut agreement to amend those to change that set aside or or or um area me and income that that you've dedicated those two as well so we try to do longer terms I mean Beyond like the developer were an advocate for the affordable and Workforce housing so that's where you know we didn't have to do in Cape Coral the structure that i' that I mentioned before um we could have just had the the standard requirements we were the on that which is a little bit unique and different like the housing authorities typically have the land and they solicit the for-profit developers because of whatever it may be Financial wherewithal cap capability knowledge whatever it may maybe where we brought in the housing authority to acquire the land for the sole purpose to maintain it in affordability so that's something we look to do is that that long-term um affordability Factor so Mike if if there was a changing of hands of property who who if the town was essentially a partner in this with with you who could who could initiate a changing of the hands or selling the property and how would that work as far as the town's would the town be re collect what the market value is of the land at the time so probably not so I would think so changing ownership in terms of like the land or versus like the improvements of the structure there two different components so the land could you can transfer that to to anybody based off of your sale agreement but you're going to be tied to us with your ground lease so you like in the example that I did there the 99 year ground lease of $10 a year you'd probably have to find um like a Housing Authority or a Community Land Trust that's not looking to to make money because they're not going to pay you more than the ground lease is worth and then for us um again we if we if we did pay if we did sell to somebody then it would same thing they'd have their affordability requirements we have into play and it would also trigger repayment from our end so so we would we would go into it know with the mindset that we're going to uh construct develop and own it forever um and that's where we look at it I think a little bit different than a lot of market rate developers as well cuz we are looking at it all up front to make sure that we're putting out the best long-term product for long-term sustain ability as well all right thanks much yeah we got it bring it up at the end and all right see where I thought it was important to have you here because I knew the time was running out yeah no I appreciate on being able to potentially do this and if there's a will to move forward and see if that's something we can we can do fine if not then it dies in The Vine and we can all move on on our day so absolutely I appreciate the appreciate the opportunity thank you thanks Mike thanks Mike next we have advisory committee items reports and appointments Public Safety Committee update who's here from the public oh here he comes good morning everyone Jim bouis representing the Public Safety Committee um Jacob is pulling up a slide so we have uh three topics I want to talk to you about today um two of them the first two are just more for information the last one is more uh try to connect with a recommendation decision on how to move forward so first of all I wanted to talk a little bit about the emergency response system uh a few months ago I was up here and I was uh sharing some of the thoughts that we had about doing some way two-way communication using our existing code alert system um in further conversations and and testing with Nicole um it does have some limitations on how you get that feedback and how you ask those questions um also connecting with um Chief worth and also um Town manager there's also Geotech um type of Technology um so we're we're still continuing to look at what is the right approach when it comes to hurricanes um what we want to do next is um set up some time to go down to the EOC um have a conversation with them get a tour of their facility but also to talk about you know what systems they use and how we adapt that um right now our plan is to continue using the code code reder system remaining of this year and then um change over to it's an everbridge or Le alert everbridge um system so we want to have a voice and and try to connect um as we look into hurricane season next year um how we connect into that that more substantial system and make sure that we can do the things that we want to do either it's a Geotech or it's a text messaging back way of approaching um who's remaining on the beach during Hurricane so that we can get first responders to them um as quickly as possible so we continue as a a p PSC to um work through this ask questions and find a solution that's going to work the best for this for Fort Meers Beach um also want to thank and recognize Nicole for all of her um communication successful communication also events at the uh the mound house so thank you so much for uh for her dedication as well and communicating the hurricane um response and um educating our residents as well um so that is the the first one so that's um the second topic is around our Public Safety survey so um an idea that we had was to listen to the public um what what's important to them specifically so we sent out a survey um we got 35 respondents was great we went through um in the last PSC meeting if you guys saw um some of the the highlights from that were um not in any order bike saf safy lighting um pedestrian safety as well as crosswalks not in any order specifically we started to go through some data and we said you know 35 not so much so through the help of beach talk radio so thank you very much we have now have 375 response so if you look at it it's getting close to 10% of the residents so far here on the beach so um and we'll be digging through those um questions during our next PSC meeting um that's coming up um middle of this month um so there's you know I think from that survey what we're trying to do is somehow get to a point where we assigned like an advisory person for each of those areas so for me it's like emergency response um we can then dedicate um you know some of the other um committee members to to work on each of those different topics that are important to our residents and our guests um to improve the safety of Fort Meers Beach so that is uh how we're reaching out to the public how we're listening and also um you know then starting to put actions against those um so if you have not filled it out we're we're keeping that survey open so anyone listening um please go in there and and put down your comments um takes only a few moments but we're listening so just wanted to to reiterate that out to everybody and the last one so bike safety um this is a Hot Topic um I know it's been a Hot Topic that you guys have talked about here um it's one that has come up in the survey quite a bit um so what we we were talking through um with the public safety was you know this is um from ebike concerns to just overall pedestrian safety um there you know that's one of the things that we started to look into a little bit further and there was a great report um that Jacobs came out um back in 2017 which was part of this bike safety Master planning um went through it there's a lot of great stuff in there we just we never got to a point where we could implement it and one of the things is um you know how do we go forward with that so um the PSC has um is requesting that we start to participate in the the work that R2 P2 will be doing in the upcoming weeks and we feel that you know Public Safety Committee can actually um add a lot of value now that we're you know we're listening to our um you know residents and guests you know we can take some of that knowledge bring that into that type of forum provide our input so we' we' love that opportunity um that's kind of what we're asking for is you know for your support for us to to have a seat at the table there to provide our input uh we know it's the right time to do this you know as we build back Fort Meers Beach um we want to implement this a bike safety master plan we want to have people you know leave Fort Myers and say wow it's a bike safe town and and that's what we want we want that to be like um we also know there's ordinance around ebikes right now and we want to revisit that we we believe there's there opportunities to look at you know opening it up for ebikes on sidewalks or beaches at some point in time but we do that part of this master plan so that we know whatever we do we still have um pedestrian safety in mind and that we're we're making it safe for everybody so that third one um is you know definitely a hot topic for us we we spend a lot of time thinking through that and um what we'd like to move forward with is is having someone on our committee um work with our 2p2 and having your the council's endorsement to do that so thank you all right questions for Jim Scott no I'm good Karen no I think everything you said is so valid and I appreciate all your hard work on this okay thanks Jim absolutely support you being involved in that next step process yep John I agree thanks for everything okay thank you yeah I think you you guys have any issues with them being involved no I think it be great job I think it's a great idea R2 to they're they're coming to town fairly soon next week week so I think that's important um I know you guys were working on that connectivity of the bike you know being able to keep the bikes off a stero Boulevard and I know there's been talk about going through dinora and all these other things yeah is there any update on that from the last meeting we were uh brain stor a lot of different ideas during the last meeting and you know I think that's where we wanted to like collect all those ideas from either like a a boardwalk that's on the beach that you can kind of roll it up like during a storm you roll them up or having some way of um you know designated areas on SP say if you wanted to ride an ebike on the beach here's a designated area to do that so you know we were brainstorming a lot of different ideas and also how do you work you through um I know Don Thomas was walking through and saying how can we actually have um through the neighborhoods in the back um come around so that when we get to congested areas as we know there's a way to get through that without being on the sidewalks near a lot of pedestrians so we we were walking through it but what we thought would be the best approach was to to have that you know meeting with R2 P2 and bring those ideas and thoughts sit down and say okay here's a few different options that we may have how do we best go about doing this okay thanks Jim okay thank you guys thank you next uh isn't on the agenda but she's here Jennifer Rusk I think I saw her she there she is back there with murf sorry there you go oh there we go okay good morning Jennifer Rusk resident murf member good morning to staff and mayor and vice mayor and Council um I'm actually here because I heard uh through the gra Vine at the last meeting that uh there were some questions or concerns with the activity book and I'm just here to see what those are um yeah I I there was I wish I could I haven't been able to track her down but she said there were two issues one was with specifically I remember was the manate zones it was saying that there were no wake zones which is inaccurate um and then I can't I I haven't been able to track her down to find out what the other one was that that it was inaccurate according to FWC but I I specifically remember the manate Zone one cuz not all manate zones are no wake so this was the original where was manate Zone idle speed no wake and then I had it I had it the illustrator correct it to um manate Zone slow speed minimum wake which reflects the signs from FWC mhm um I know that there was another type there was a couple typos uh one was balloon it was spelled incorrectly but that has now been fixed as well but um basically we've gone through almost every page and everything looks okay um hopefully she's need correction I'm hoping she'll reach back out because I I I didn't have anything to write it down at the time I otherwise I would have wrote it down but I think that'll her concern was that we're teaching the kids inaccurate information so okay that's why I wanted to bring it up it's not accurate I mean a lot of places do have no wake signs and those I talking about the balloons I mean it's important to spell balloons correctly oh I'm just teasing I'm just teasing okay gotcha all right so I will wait was it about the boats being number one killer or something uh you know it might God I can't remember it was a couple weeks ago welcome to 50 so I will wait for further advisement before I take this to print I certainly would uh like the town to stand behind it it also has the town logo on it town does the town do we have a copy of this yeah is it possible to put it out on our website and just let people get a look at it to see if there's any absolutely I think great idea absolutely yeah that would be great um before we take it to print which uh I'd like to do soon so is everybody okay with Town manager doing that heav Nicole get we also have um yeah Nicole look it over read it see make sure she you know that everything looks ready to go long as libraries is not in it the library is not in it no she misspelled libraries one time oh oh we're calling people out yes we are yeah I was going to say that the map actually shows um all of our natural resources and our library and school and things like that so yeah everybody everybody thinks it's great just that we got a lot of Voters so yeah it doesn't hurt to have a couple take look at 100% And then also just uh one more um uh announcement that um the Fort Myers Beach Community Foundation awarded murf $3500 and thank you and uh you know to do educational um Outreach and whatever else murf decides I kind of have an idea that I haven't presented to murf yet but uh I would like maybe to to have a resilience day uh that Fort Myers Beach maybe um we do something um that that money can go towards whether it be plants or information out for the community of Fort Meers Beach so I'll talk to murf and see if you know or we can just take print more activity books but I'd also like to spread the love so and I did just get confirmation that Scott is correct it was the the boats or the number one killer of manatees was the other one okay what page I honestly I don't know I just got confirmation that I'd be lying if I said I read the entire thing okay I just need to know so if I could get a page number sure from the person we can we can if you want to leave we'll we got people you guys can look through right you guys can find it okay find what page number it is do you want to look for it good memory Scott good memory all right thank you have a great day any questions thanks Jennifer thanks Jenifer bye next we have a land local planning agency appointment we have two uh two candidates James Dunlap and Christy Thorton mayor yes we also did receive a late application last uh Friday afternoon uh the deadline passed on May 15th so I have copies if you want to include that person if not I told them that for the LPA for LPA and Becky has something also um yes I believe that um uh Christy Thornton um does not live within the town limits okay but she wanted to apply but that's not okay that's not allowed is the other do we want to consider the other person they put in after the deadline leave it up to the council I guess John pondering hi Jim I I'm pondering the other issue too because I think we've made exceptions for people who live off the island in certain situations right I think it's different for LPA LPA different for it's statuto yeah not for the LPA I believe I believe it's statutory because they are the local planning agency I will check I just want to make sure we were good yeah I I I I think I think they had to live on the island too for LPA but I I just wanted to make sure we were consistent yep since she was in the zip code she believed and she had an address but I think the only two statutory committees are LPA and audit committee so that might be unique for them yep Karen you know I'm thinking too I mean I it's such an important position that I'm curious as to who who else applied but um they also missed the deadline so I'm torn okay so far we're 0 for three Scot um deadlines or deadlines man I I share the same sentiment so sorry no all right it sounds like we're just going to vote on who we can vote for you got it all right make your vote we'll hand it to you I guess I should have asked if anybody wanted to come up and speak Jim would you like to come up and huh come on up sorry I should have that'll give you time for Becky's answer too yeah I saw you out there earlier but I miss you got a lot going on today good morning everyone mayor vice mayor and counselors thanks for the opportunity I know the um Jim Dunlap 131 eag Street I know the um situation that the community is in right now it's frankly completely exciting and unique and can be overwhelming unless we take it a piece at a time and I'm looking forward to being part of that my background experience I think from my resume shows you I've been involved in a lot of things in a lot of places and I guess what I would book in my comments with that um I did talk to this with the mayor when you came over to see me um we moved on the island July of 2021 I bought our home there I mean and I got very interested in watching the local government operate and I mentioned when I did my interview with Ed uh watching that meeting on September 22nd of um 2022 the last council meeting before the hurricane I know councelor King you remember that well because you spoke at that meeting um looking at the culture of the organization at that point it was um concerning about the way the things are operating lack of transparency all the things I don't have to repeat here but watching what has happened particularly with the newly elected counselors and the priority you all put on culture and changing the way the organization operates including the public and trans and transparency and all of that that goes with it those are easy things to say during a campaign they're hard to implement because culture isn't what you say it's what you tolerate and you did a great job of changing the way this this town feels the way the government operates and people like myself and I'm sure there'll be others are very attracted to be a part of an organization that feels the way it does and operates the way it does so that's why I'm standing here and want to make sure that you heard that directly from me otherwise you wouldn't be looking at the document you have in front of you with my willingness to do this and frankly my excitement about being involved in it so thank you for what you did in that regard so any questions you have for me I'd be glad to answer thanks for coming forward yeah I say the same thing thank you for coming forward yeah you're welcome I'm good okay we'll let chips fall where they will then thank you thanks okay I um section 34-1 113 does require all members must be residents of or owners of real property located within the territorial limits of the town of Fort Meers beach at the time of application for membership on the local planning agency and during the period of service on the local planning agency um so good thank you all right you want so then it really doesn't require a vote no it really doesn't but you wanted anyway congratulations yeah congratulations it was very suspenseful I know that why we bring up next we have the oh you want wait to Rally the results oh no Jim unlap got it congratulations Jim thanks uh oh wait this is I got Bor cab on mine but it says audit committee here oh there's Bor cab we're missing one we're missing a there's only one applicant there's only an applicant for audit oh just for the record uh Amy what was the vote for LPA just just for the just to have it on the record yep 5 Z James James Dunlap thank you congratulations okay okay you have borab right we have borab there's two Bor cabs and one audit so what do you want us to do with the audit have the one for the audit audit is just a consent just move that we approve the one loan applicant for the audit committee yeah who is it second want ask discussion I just want to know who it is get there David Sandberg is what I have yeah David zberg got a motion by councelor King second and by vice mayor adhal any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none congratulations next we have the Bay Oaks Campus Advisory Board there are two candidates Christopher Doyle and Ed skover are either of them here would they like to come on up Christopher or would you prefer Chris and this is so formal Christopher or Chris I've been called a lot worse that's it that's it good morning Christopher Doyle for the record resident of the town of Fort Meers Beach hello Council thank you for your service appreciate you guys saying the staff um I submitted a letter with my application I'm not going to stand here and read it for you I'll just summarize I came here in the spring of 2011 immediately fell in love with this island was actually looking for work and a house to stay in a school for my children up in the um Bradon area cuz I thought that's where we wanted to live I love Anamaria Island I'd fallen in love with it a long time ago knew I wanted to be an Islander once I got here in the spring of 2011 I was like this is my Island fell in love with it we moved here here that summer my Comm my community involvement started right away I started writing for the island sandpaper covering events here at Town Hall all up and down the island when I returned post Ian last summer I decided there's not really a voice for the island that does what the Sandpaper used to do on a weekly basis I said why don't I start reporting on the news of the island so I started The f&b Islander a lot of people know me as The Islander telling the stories of our beach of our recovery the stories by locals about locals I don't cover cap Coral saying anywhere else but fortt Meers Beach so that just shows my dedication and love for the island and I was looking for a way to get involved civically I saw the Bor cab availability and thought well I'm going to apply it was a very split-second decision put in my application uh the letter basically says what I just told you that I love this place and I want to be involved and this seemed like a great opportunity so I submit that to you respectfully um now I'm not going to be able to stay for the whole meeting because of medical appointments with this be an appropriate time to make public comment on say the Allen Group presentation uh I don't think so okay if you send us an email though I will I'll email to you or this might be a long meeting you might be able to make it back for the last all right well that's all I had to say thank you very much for your consideration I appreciate it thanks Chris thanks Chris is Ed here I don't see him out there I guess anybody have any questions for Chris didn't think no no questions for Chris okay go and make your vote [Music] um with three votes it's Ed skover and two is Christopher Doyle okay well congratulations Ed you don't need a motion right that's the vote we're good that's the vote um no I would do a motion is there a motion to approve the findings of the ballot so moved second got a motion by councelor King second by councelor Stafford any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none now congratulations Ed next we have the approval of the Town Council May 20th 2024 meeting is there a motion to approve the minutes I'll move to approve the town council meeting minutes okay we got a motion by councelor King I'll second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously next we have the consent agenda items A and B is there a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved M motion by councelor Woodson second in by councelor Safford any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously next we have the items removed from consent agenda items C through I were removed by councelor King the first item is item C resolution 24-1 1119 author extension of Angie Brewer contract and sta number five John just seeking further public explanation as Joe makes his way up uh mayor vice mayor council Angie Brewer has been monit U monitoring our state revolving loan um on our tier one project and we feel like it would be uh prudent upon us to continue with their services since it's being successful but Joe can can speak more to that well good morning Joe wanson from finance department um this is a real Joe is there is there some significance to the fact that you're in finance and your shirt is green is that is that is a department color we thought it would be appropriate so hopefully we're in the green and not in the red only thing missing is the gold lanyard that's I'm close to it y um so I think just a few months ago we had um approved the amendment for the ngie bureau contract to do the oneye extension that we had missed the previous June um so this is now to extend it from this coming June to the the following June for one more year and the services that they provide is primarily for um the storm water and water um projects that are underway and what they're particularly focused on of course now is the tier one um program and so they are the ones who go through all of the documentation um that's related to all the billing from like Andrew site work and they are the ones who certify it and prepare it so that it can be um submitted to the state revolving fund Loan program for reimbursement and then there's also um I think two or three other grants that they prepare all the the documentation for and to submit for reimbursement so it's it's a lot of administrative work um that they do for us and they also do updates and amendments for um that are required along the way for like the state revolving Loan Fund program as well and any new grants that are are coming up they also get involved they do the research and they they prepare the reporting for those grants as well so it is a lot of work they've done excellent work for us so far and that's why we're asking that they be um renewed for one more year is there a Dollar figure with that or there is um it's part of the STA um that's going to be is part part of this that would be approved and it's for almost $246,000 sorry $246,000 would be the total amount and it's all um part of the srf Loan program that's how it would be funded okay thank you Joe you're welcome any other questions for Joe before he goes away Mr Mayor I'll move resolution 24119 authorizing extension of Angie Brewer contract and sta number five okay I'll second got a motion by councelor King second by May allers any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously next is item D resolution 24122 cdbg D public facilities application blight resolution John Frankie uh good afternoon or should say good morning everyone my name is Frankie kachik I'm the operations and compliance director for the town of Fort Meers Beach um all ECT councelor King D and E are kind of attached if you would allow the same explanation for both please um the definition of a blight is needed for the cdbg uh declaration for infrastructure which we are in the process of uh putting towards the the the grand council at the county um there's two different directions you can go with the definition of blight we chose to go with the one where the commander-in-chief stood on our Island and declared it a disaster area uh that alone me meets the requirement of a blighted area a blighted area doesn't have to be one that's run down financially or um any other means it could be just wiped off the map like what we were requesting for resolution uh number D or letter d uh that's in regard to our Parks uh that we asked for infrastructure wise Newton to build backup Newton Park we also put into uh that area the community pool and also old San Carlos Lighting which has to be totally gutted and done um all those areas suffered catastrophic loss because of hurricane Ian and cannot be repaired on conventional means so we are looking for uh the classification of a blighted or disaster declared area for those designation uh so we can apply for the cdbg infrastructure uh the letter e resolution 24-21 um accounts for the North Tower or our West Tower on the island water tower water tower correct that whole facility uh even though the tower was in the process of getting worked on prior to Ian making a landfall uh the whole area is is under a blighted area because the area was taken down um our our main piping our main valves all that were compromised because of Ian's uh impact on the island so with the presidential deceleration of being a blighted area due to disaster um we also included that as well so this is nothing more than just to as a council recognize the fact that those areas were in fact covered under a presidential disaster area which they were and and to recognize such so we could get that recognized with the cdbg documents that we uploaded last week thank fry yes sir Becky is it possible do we have to do each indiv agenda individually even though they were explained you can join them together if you want on a consent agenda okay so a motion could be to approve those two okay is there a motion to approve item D and item e Mr Mayor I'll move resolution 24-1 122 and resolution 24-21 jointly got a motion by councelor King I'll second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously next is item F resolution 24124 accepting fdac s contract number 31125 awarding the town $37,500 to procure and plant 75 native trees and Palms John um I guess I'll borrow a phrase from the vice mayor it's uh let's toot our horn about this what's what's what's going on Chad's going to come forward but it it is funding um for trees to be planted native trees to be planted on North Estero and on Old Stan Carlos and it will be coconut palms sea grapes not cocon that's what's listed but go ahead royal royal yes sir uh Chad shoots environmental staff um so we applied last year for this grant for $37,500 for 75 native trees giving us $500 per tree uh which doesn't go it's not going to be the 20ft trees that we see outside of maybe Margaritaville but um and talking to uh suppliers we may be able to get say a four or 5 foot uh clear trunk Palm maybe on the order of uh 12 to 15 ft uh for the Royal Palms you can see the uh tree inventory that staff did uh on North Estero and uh old s Carlos and the original idea was to go for those coconut palms on old San Carlos as well as the Royal Palms um on North Estero uh fex uh uh did award us uh half of what we asked which we're grateful for um and did have the caveat that we're not allowed to do the coconut palms on osc uh they're not considered native um they're on the category 2 to uh invasive exotic list technically um we could have a separate conversation about that but uh so we pivoted and uh uh we do have you know 50 some OD Royal Palms um if y'all wanted to continue with the Royal Palm Theme on North Estero um we could always substitute some of those for canopy trees if we wanted to do that uh and then uh wasting the way I included some before and after uh photographs of uh wasting away access uh pre andos Ian um and showed the uh the original out uh original um plan that we had with the sea grape trees that would grow up and you can um uh uh you know Bonsai those out to provide like a big you know shaded uh tree for that parking lot which offers a lot of uh comfort for those are in hot cars um as well as putting uh you know sea grapes and maybe even some sable palms out onto the access in the Dune there thanks for your efforts on that yes sir you're welcome all right any other questions for Chad art sea grape trees we had one before the hurricane and they're Messy as can be I mean wouldn't that require a ton of cleanup so that's not the first I've I've heard that um Beauties in the eye of the beholder uh they do shed leaves um I think it's great tree uh trees are messy in general um they also have little berries that fall everywhere they're they're great you can make great wine out of them um they taste good you're not speaking by experience of course so I haven't had the fortitude to see that FR but I have eaten the berries out on go for tortois surveys and they are very tasty mayor I'll move resolution 24-14 got a motion by councelor King is there a second a second coun second by councelor Safford any further discussion all those in favor signifi by saying I I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously next is resolution 24-1 199 ratifying emergency Crescent Street outfall repairs and budget Adjustment John seeking just some explanation on what the project is and the financing I guess so uh again my name is Frank eratck the operations and compliance director for the town of Fort Mars Beach uh councelor King to answer your question um this was done before we hit the ground with tier one we already had a vendor in place with Andrew sitework and we were hoping to kind of Rectify a problem that we had last late last fall when Dalia came really close to our Island and flooded most of that area uh became known that we were missing a ton of uh duck bills in that area when I say ton it was actually five but it impacted that whole area um they're very quite heavy so they probably was a ton um we reached out to Andrew sitework which our was under contract with us as a vetted vendor uh they were more than happy to go out and assess the situation and say they basically came back and said yep we can do this um so uh we were working under the guise of an emergency situation um we ordered the duck bills they installed them uh when it all came down they actually tied the invoice to the tier one um and you can't do that that's all dedicated funds so this is basically just a little clerical clear clear up and uh keep it separated and so this was the cost for the installation uh which by means is actually almost $110,000 less than what we originally had thought when we asked them to do the project this comes out of the general funds or the funding sorry Joe I I defer to the numers man on that one yes storm water yeah I believe it was covered by that storm water grant was it not it $10 million Grant we had gotten clearance it can be it needs to be submitted to see if it would be but if it were not it can be covered by the fund balance within the storm water fund okay since it's not really a large expenditure thank you for thank you Joe yes if you recall we uh last I don't recall much last year we got that $10 million stormwater Grant um with the help of Title Basin and a lot of that could not be used for the tier one project that we currently got going on but uh with the the help of Eliza who was with Title Basin at the time and helped secure that Grant uh she was able to reach out to the founders of that document and and came back and said that we would be able to use that for this project that's great great thank you all right any other questions there a motion to approve resolution 24-1 199 I'll move that Mo mayor okay by Council King second by Council Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously next is item H resolution 24125 RFQ D20 d22 dad access infrastructure sta 13 impact fee study John Town manager this was something we discussed at MMP meeting um couple meeting a couple of months ago Sarah's here to answer any questions if you need this is something that uh you guys have directed and wanted to see accomplished so uh we've asked um access to to propose this and move forward with it any questions your approval any questions for Sarah I have a question um in your proposal I don't want you to break your foot take your time take your time really no so in your proposal uh your time frame is a year um is there any way we could get it done quicker would that cost more money would think think a year is wow a long especially with all the new issue or the new developments redevelopments that we have coming in I mean it's critical I think to have the short of time we can certainly try um I don't I'm not personally going to be involved in this so I don't know the work breakdown of how that needs to work um we may be able to shorten it but I couldn't tell you for certain what everybody's schedule is that's going to be working on this so I apologize for that I I did speak to Jason over the weekend about about this specifically and he seems to think it could be closer to 7 months okay is what he had mentioned so just I don't know if that helps or hurts but well yeah I mean sooner the better I want want him to do it correctly obviously but time is time is of the essence in my he did say something that I wanted to ask you about is the way that this would work is even there even if a development was to get an approval the impact fees don't get opposed until the permit is issued is that correct that's correct that was changed by State Statute relatively recently so even if a development was to get approved they they as long as the permit came after the approval of this ordinance yes it would be the then applicable um fee got it impact fee so just just a clarification on that because received a very thoughtful letter from an LPA member over the weekend on this issue so so while we're waiting for this study those those uh projects that come before the council uh if if if the stud's not done yet they could still be captured if if if their last permit for the project for their CPD project has not been issued yet they could so so they so that the length of the the time it takes to to to do this study potentially won't impact those projects that are coming before us so the ne next six months in other words they could still be captured I guess that's what I'm trying to clarify as long as they come in for their building permit after we have adopted the new fees yes you can approve the development but that is that doesn't mean they're going to walk in the next day and pull the building permit okay I I don't know if I just I I just if I could ask for unanimous consent to proceed out of order does that answer the question that you had Mr LPA member Mr B you want to come up he's an attorney as well so I just want to make sure we get his input on that yeah he so everybody he had sent I believe he sent it to all of us yes and I I've corresponded with him oh you have okay I I want to make sure everybody was talking the concern I had is uh with Redevelopment is if it takes a year it appears some of these projects may be in for permit for the impact study could be completed in an ordinance pass is there a a way to um cover that interim period um either in the development code or you know even as drastic as a moratorium on issuing of the building permits until the impact study is done because I think we as a town may be leaving money on the table that was the point it's the inim it's not what happens with the approval of the development but what happens between the approval of the development and the impact study if it's uh ready for permitting that's a question well the the key date is when they pull the permit so when they come in for the permit or when the permit is approved when approved okay cuz that can take right there that can take 6 months um okay I think we're talking about apples and oranges here we're talking about the building permit right as opposed to coming in for their CPD because that is not yeah that is not a building permit but then between the CPD and the building permit you is there an average time frame um I don't know there's certainly going to be some lag there the other question that was I think Jim had brought up in his email and I don't want to speak for Jim but I think was is there legally is there a way to if things are approved because we are going through the process to condition impact fees I don't know if there is or isn't but and I don't know if that's exactly how you you worded it Jim but I I don't know if you would want to um have a moratorium I mean a moratorium is so that you can that's not what I was asking that's not what I was asking what I was asking is I could is it legal or can you do a condition of approval on a CPD for the impact fees that haven't been imposed yet because the study isn't done if for some reason the permit was to get issued before we finish this process I could research it I don't believe so because it we wouldn't have the authority to assess a higher impact fee than what we had adopted because we wouldn't even know what it was okay that's I wanted to ask yeah um I can see if there is some way around it without a moratorium I don't see what it would let's clarify this one question that we're just talking about Sarah is there isn't there generally some lag time between when the CPD is approved and then by the time the building permit would be approved yes um so the CPD gets approved um then or or whatever needs to happen with with uh a public hearing and then they come in for their development order um and then once the development order is approved then they can come in for their permits and on average that's 3 to 6 months at least okay so we if it's going to take seven months we should be okay theoretically well if Jason's listening let's hope it's going to be 7 months can we make that a condition has to be S months or less yeah that's a question for Bey can we make seriously can we make that a condition that we will approve this if if it can be in our hands 7 months or less um certainly you could I mean they could commit and they could also say not do it and we had to put it out for bid and try to find somebody else to do it take you two years to get it accomplished so that would be chick yeah and I don't and I don't want to pin Jason down to you know he said we're shooting for a quicker time frame but you know they could get bombarded with right I mean the the way the way you typically control when things are done is either through some sort of a bonus or some sort of a penalty well I think we're all in agreement that we need it and the sooner the better you can you can put in there subject to a 10% bonus if it's completed within 7 months or something like that I mean you you could actually do something want [Music] that have you done those before Andy not that related to this kind of study no and and and I haven't either although I have seen penalties cor right yeah well I think Jason is in AC is fully aware how important this is to the council so mayor I'll move resolution 24-25 okay got a motion from councelor Kings second by Vice May edal any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none that carries unanimously the last consent agenda item is resolution 24123 comprehensive vulnerability assessment John sounds like Chad is going to explain this up everyone Chad shoots uh environmental staff for the town um so this uh vulnerability assessment um again we went out um I think maybe a couple years ago and got 75,000 and and talking to some of the Consultants um added some more money that to add an adapt an adaptation plan um I can read through um the packet if you like just to educate the public on what this is doing do you have a reader digest version um sure so uh this is going to look at our critical infrastructure um identify that we've done that already um what do you mean by critical infrastructure so uh virtually everything that the town owns um anything from our you know street lights our structures from mountainous to town hall um utility drinking water um Stone water conveyance um all the chronical iCal infrastructure that the town owns uh is is going to be assessed in this in this vulnerability assessment um we accomplished uh the first task 1.1 and 1.2 in identifying those critical assets uh attaching uh data um to those such as elevation location Etc to participate in the County's vulner vulnerability assessment which has more of a regional aspect to it which we thought was important to participate in that um but this will be more Town Centric and look at those um how those uh critical assets are impacted by um storm surge and uh uh sea level rise um uh with the uh exposure analysis and sensitiv sensitivity analysis and then coming back um with public input to uh see where we want to focus and how we want to adapt to um those challenges thank you yes sir any other questions for Chad yeah I've got a question Chad um page 264 your tasks started a lot of these tasks have already been started so uh which task are you referring to it says acquire background data start date was 7122 exposure analysis 7122 sensitivity all the start dates except for the adaption plan says the start date was 7122 is that uh so no that's not accurate the only ones that we have accomplished to date are again identifying the critical assets task 1.1 and 1.2 on those um that may be some carryover from a prior document okay that that was super confusing so I'm like if you guys started this two years ago already uh so that may have been just a um a plan um from before where we were giving that information to fdp and trying to plan this out um with everything that's been happening I'll be the first to say that this has been delayed and I wish we had started it sooner but okay um that may have been some uh some planning dates for FD okay thank you mayor I'll move resolution 24-12 you can still discuss it after the motion okay well I I also this is going to take a year yes sir okay it's a it's a in-depth analysis and um public input back and forth and and uh getting that adaptation plan as the final product okay fair enough John you sorry John that's all right so moved resolution 24123 okay got a motion from councelor King second seconded by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none motion carries unanimously um Mr Mayor if you indulge me for a second I just want to thank um everyone here for their patience on this um I come from this as a as someone that sat out in that audience two years ago and became very frustrated when uh items that were spending on the consent agenda were never discuss so uh that's always going to be an important thing with me for for the uh citizens and the taxpayers so thank you fair enough all right anybody need a comfort break before we start the public hearings all right we'll take a brief 10-minute break get [Laughter] comfortable e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e can we amend can we amend can we add a very long Hook was in yeah e e e back to order it is now 11:17 our first public hearing is ordinance 24-13 unsafe structures this is the second reading and public hearing on a proposed ordinance 24-13 entitled ordinance of the town of Fort Mar Beach Florida amending division number three unsafe building abatement code of article one proper maintenance codes of chapter 6 maintenance codes building codes and Coastal regulations of the code of ordinance of Fort Meers Beach Florida to clarify existing Provisions related to notice and exceptions to authorize notification by constructive service to include attorney's fees and costs and not notice expenses to the demolition lean against the property on which the unsafe structure was located and to authorize use of the uniform method of collection for collection of leans providing for codification separability scriveners errors conflicts of Law and an effective date Becky okay um this is to amend our current unsafe building abatement code um we had to clarify the notice requirement um allowing constructive service by advertisement if other methods of service were not uh were not successful um it adds the recovery of attorney's fees and costs and administrative fees to be added to the leane um and it allows collection of Lans um using the uniform method of collection and that means it's added to the tax spell so this is second reading on this any questions questions for Becky is is Joe available Joe Speck available or no or can you guys answer for him I we can answer somebody the the question is obviously this is approved when does when does the red tagging start when how long of time is that when the building official determines coordinating with staff we already have about 10 properties already uh lined up that can uh go at a moment's notice he's already went out and evaluated he would go into his final field inspection and uh be able to red tag it at that time um and uh we already have companies lined up as well to do the demo yes we're we have to do lean it's okay and you can you can talk in the mic credit but also we had uh the attorneys are doing lean searches on the properties to make sure that what's out there and and that they're clear or who owns them so we can you know um get the information to the right people okay so if this is approved when what is the time did you give me the time frame and I just missed it in all the talking but no you're basically within the by the end of the month you're in the next 30 days almost immediately from the from the day that they get notified they have 30 days and then we can go in and do what we have to do if they don't don't respond correct Joe's on his way Joe's on his way I just wanted to hear from Joe cuz he's he's the one that's going to be doing the terminations right correct correct so I just assume hear from him I I think the one thing that we we should you know um talk about or just mention and and we we did mention it but it is put it is put against um the the property tax the repayment is put there so it's an easier cleaner way to collect and to get the money back and and it's not you know we're putting leans against it and we get title companies and we're just doing all sorts of things ourselves and the attorneys are doing more it is a cleaner process okay and go ahead Scott so I have a question with regards to the properties will they be posted on a web page will it be public knowledge will what's by law we do have to post to the properties we have to make them compliant so it would be the same thing as doing like an LPA advertisement where we would have a some kind of standard uh here's Joe that can answer some of these question will there be a separate web page or how would that how's that process work we just would we could add a whole section onto our our web page Hey Joe talking about bringing up to speed demo Dem the red oh okay uh I'm Joe spec I'm the building official and how can I help you so the question I had Joe is can you just for the public run if this gets approved on the second reading can you give us one how you determine briefly what what houses would be red tagged we'll just use that term um how you're going to go about doing that and then the time frame that they have to come in compliance and what does that compliance look like is it fencing off the property tearing down the property getting a permit what if you just explain kind of the process we're going to go through yes so we we've already begun um tagging we're not we're not putting a physical tag up but I'm making a list and Nancy is coordinating with me on that so I'm going by her Direction and uh so and we're we're making a list of 10 properties at a time and they are beginning title searches so they know how to inform the owners properly of what we're looking for the way I determine whether something is safe or unsafe it's just a preliminary visual check and inspect ction if you will and uh the the property if they are notified that this is on the list their property they will have 30 days to do something um and then it's kind of open to what that may be it'll be Case by case at that point in time if the property can be brought if it can be salvaged it will have to be by way of them hiring an engineer and and uh confirming that with us that it can be salvaged and that engineer's letter or report will be subject to review and then we will try to work with them and let that happen by the permitting process um if they don't answer within that 30-day period then it gets it goes to Demolition and that's the way that's plan to goes is there any questions I tried to make that as condensed as possible but so I I had a question now at what point will these properties uh will the list come out and how are you going to disseminate that information I think a lot of a lot of the folks in town want to know which properties they are and uh I'm I'm not sure when like would you put the would it be on a list let's say there's a list um the day you read tag it or after the I already have a list prepared but it's it's mainly for the purpose of title searches okay so that we we we've done a visual inspection of these properties and um Nancy wanted uh the list so that she could do title searches and prepare for this what what we're doing right now and uh once so the title searches have already begun if this goes to ordinance she's going to be ready to start doing notices we we're meeting every Friday over the phone we're having conference calls and uh updating each other on where we are the um this week the plan is she's going to have a draft of what the not noce will look like that goes to the owners and we're going to go over that together what I hear Scott saying though is when does this become public knowledge is that when the letter is sent to the owner or well I to tell you the truth I'm I'm open for direction on that all the only direction I've received so far is to start getting a lists together so that these title searches can be done um I don't think I'm the one that says okay let's make it public I think we're all in that together what we'll do is follow direction from the attorney once we're all cleared of everything and there's no liability or we step outside and then Becky can speak to that but we will post everything we'll put it on an appropriate page or link or connection that that type of thing so everybody can find it I mean it will be published we have to publish things like that anyhow I mean it's a public record it has to be out there and so once we get that going we will follow all the letters of the law to make sure everything's properly posted so Jo if I could to the mayor's question um you talked about doing a visual inspection for for people out there who are listening is it sort of like the Supreme Court's definition of pornography they know it when they see it in other words do you do you just see it's obviously dilapitated are things that in other words can you convey to the public what you're looking for when you determine an unsafe property yes so um I'm out in the field almost every day so and and I'm like everyone who lives on Fort Meers Beach you go buy the same properties all the time and things catch your eye so what I do is I notice properties that appear to be abandoned yes um some of them demolition has already started and that process has been abandoned also so I look for abandon uh I go inside and see if there's anything that's unsafe most all of the ones that have been abandoned have uh unsafe issues whether it be debris whether it be um um parts of the building that are just hanging and may fall at any M any minute I'm sorry but uh that's the kind of inspection I'm doing I don't know if I would actually consider it to be unsafe based on my inspection they could be salvageable but um to answer your question again there may be things that need to be done immediately like fencing it off uh removing parts of the building that need to be removed if they're proposing it to be salvageable and you know keep the public out that's that's very helpful Joe thank you and just just to so again for folks who are watching this just to clarify and and I I'll defer to Frankie on this too this is separate than if if if some somebody's operating a nuisance they've got their grass has not been mowed they've got a bunch of trash in their yard there's rats you know potentially infesting that area or raccoons will that be a separate violation than this yes sir so what you're addressing right there would be a code violation so they would have to go through trying to educate the person on cleaning up their property if they don't take the the proper abatement steps themselves what we would do the town could step in and take the action for them but anything that we would do to or try to recoup would have to go before magistrate this is eliminating that process altogether we've done our due diligence we've tried to reach these homeowners several different times we're doing our our lean searches now so we're just dealing with those individuals who own those properties so any action the town takes from here on out is between the town and that landowner where before uh if we were to go down that the the road with just making it a code enforcement that could escalate into years before those structures would actually be come down uh a setad of just weeks that's a very helpful clarification thank you we're doing both commercial and residential yes yes just so everybody knows so just to kind of play Devil's Advocate if I'm a homeowner that gets this and I come in and put a fence around my property but don't do anything else what else do we have to do to if we know that I can think five off the top of my head that definitely can't be rebuilt but if they get this letter and they just come and put a fence around the property can they then in theory just keep the building sit there for as long as they want until it sells or whatever they're doing with it well my initial response to that is my gut feeling is no uh I think the the full answer would come after we after we work together with uh V's law firm and con and come about with this letter that they're going to receive so that that letter is going to have to give them the information that they need um to know you're not just going to be allowed to put a fence up we want some action we we want to we want to clean things up that's right so we're working together to get that letter drafted the first draft is going to be uh discussed on Friday when we have our conference call okay I think it's important that that's that was an important question I just want someone putting up a fence then now we see that they just walk away the way I understand this is we're doing this is because we want action and we want it to be positive action for the town there were a few properties Mr Mayor early on um last year that the property owner uh just did that just put up either an orange fence or whatever and thought that was sufficient to get them to a sale date um and those have gone on too long so that's why we stepped in with this program to try to alleviate that and get it to a closer uh final outcome okay any other questions for Joe it sounds like uh we have a understanding now of when things will become a public record does that help you or yes all of all of this helps me anything else you need from us to be successful um I don't think so but this helps me to prepare for my conference call on Friday which is going to be about that letter than Jo could I comment um the as soon as a second person sees a document that is prepared um it becomes a public record and Amy's um watching her computer right now and she has two requests and we will respond to them appropriately of the for the letter um for the list for for the list okay I all right right well I appreciate your efforts and uh is it glad I know you're meeting once a week is it possible I'm just I mean this has been going on a long time and I I could tell you in the public that the temperature is rising for these structures that are not being taken care of and I understand once a week meetings are great but this is something that I think the public is very very concerned with um is it possible to maybe move it up to twice a week or something to get it can be every day we can we can absolutely do this is by way of conference call okay so it's not like we have to travel to meet or anything like that it's a pretty simple meeting and uh yes we can do that is is the council okay with giving direction to expedite would be the best way to this process to move move this along if this gets approved obviously absolutely a lot of head nods yes you got it thank you for your help Joe it's a were able toot answer a lot of questions that people had I think so good all right thank you thank you mayor I'll move ordinance 24-13 got public comment first okay nice try John I was ready I wrote down thank you good job we'll open this up for passest you passed for public comment is there anyone out there that would like to speak in public comment seeing none we'll close public comment bring it back to the council for discussion or a motion well I've heard of things called motions so I'll move ordinance 24-13 unsafe structures all right got a got a motion by councelor King seconded by councelor Woodson any further discussion the roll call vote councelor King I councelor Woodson I counc Safford I vice mayor atal I may is an i as well motion carries unanimously all right the next how many we got one two three the next three items on the agenda are public hearings for review of various land use requests for the benefit of the public Please be aware that these items are Quasi judicial in nature our attorney will further explain all right um zoning revision special exceptions and variances are all quazi judicial in nature which requires our public hearing to comply with procedural requirements established in Florida law and in our Land Development code quazi judicial proceedings are less formal than proceedings before a circuit court but are more formal than the remainder of our meeting and follow basic standards of due process requiring certain notices application of the correct standards and decisions made on competent and substantial evidence presented to the Town Council in written documents or oral testimony the Town Council will evaluate the testimony and information for each item and draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the Land Development code or state law as may be applicable has been satisfied pure speculation or mere opinion not based on competent facts cannot be legally considered by the Town Council in evaluating an agenda item testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area is consed competent evidence by the Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports Etc or testimony based on personal information if you intend to speak please keep this in mind when you come forward please state your name clearly for the record whether or not you've been sworn in and your qualifications or interest in the matter for purposes of efficiency before beginning any of the public hearings I need to dispose of a few matters town clerk were all agenda items properly advertised if necessary pursuant to Our Land Development code yes they were at any time if any council member has a conflict of interest that would prohibit them from voting on any of these items please disclose this for the record at this time so that we can assure we'll have a quorum present for review of the items is there any John none VI Mone I have none none Z none okay okay at this time if there is anyone present including the applicant property owner staff who intends to provide testimony in any of the hearings please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by the town [Music] clerk you feel the Earth tilting on its access do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay all party SW okay this item uh this item is the second reading and final public hearing on proposed ordinance 24-14 an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying the commercial plan development CPD Zoning for the property located at 841 EST stero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 24- 46- 23- w3005 b.1 0 Fort Meers Beach providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an an effective date if any Town council member has had any exart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or observations made of the site C Mr King none that I recall Mill I had a meeting with a neighborhood group last week but and this came up very briefly I have been by the site many many times ccor Woodson I know the site counc K or what Safford same as vice mayor aderhold Sarah pro has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and based on her education and experience has been accepted as the expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Myers Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time I know most of them have already been qualified okay okay all right has a property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from the staff they're nodding yes okay please proceed good morning Sarah propes with Community Development the neighborhood company on behalf of 7-Eleven Inc the property owner for 841 Estero Boulevard has applied for a commercial plan development rezoning to develop the property on the corner of Lagoon Street in a stero Boulevard with a convenience store the downtown zoned property was the site of a 7-Eleven prior to Hurricane Ian a convenience store is allowed by right in the downtown zoning District however the request requires several deviations from the Land Development code for site design and therefore the applicant is proposing a CPD the proposed development requires a deviation from LDC section 3476 D that requires uh when properties are fronting on a stero Boulevard existing driveway and parking spaces shall be relocated from a stero Boulevard to a secondary Street and new driveways shall connect only to the secondary Street except where requirements would prohibit all reasonable access from the or to the property this deviation will allow uh driveway connecting to a sterile Boulevard and Lagoon Street a deviation from section 10- 285 along a stero Boulevard and Lagoon the deviation would allow driveway separation along a sterile Boulevard to be a minimum of approximately 80 ft and a minimum of approximately 60 ft along Lagoon Street a deviation from vehicle access separation requirements 34-7 6A to allow a parking lot to be located primarily fronting on a stero Boulevard a deviation from section 34 2020 D2 i1 which requires a minimum of four spaces for per th000 of total floor area or 14 spaces for the proposed 3500 ft convenience door to allow for reduction to of five spaces to allow eight parking spaces for this project and a deviation from section 34 1744 b4d which limits refuse container enclosures to 6 ft in height the deviation would allow the refuse container screening enclosure to be a maximum of 7' 6 in in height the proposed development requests should be evaluated according to section 3485 B and C and 34216 of the LDC deviations must be approved modified or rejected per the findings in section 34264 staff's applica staff's application of these evaluative codes uh are provided in the staff report staff notes that the parking spaces that back onto into the polaro circle RightWay that is incorrect yeah that's from the other one so uh my apologies this is the second Town Council hearing for this proposed ordinance staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here okay questions for Sarah John N Vice maral I think we did an exhaustive uh search on this first reading and found little controversy so I have nothing additional okay Council Woodson I watch that meeting and I'm good with everything counc king or Safford sorry what why were we given this um the yeah the uh Master concept plan that was provided in the agenda item didn't include the fifth deviation which is so that one just shows the circled area and includes that deviation got it thank you MH that's all I have I don't have any thanks Sarah thank you applicant good morning mayor Town Council uh staff uh just real quick uh we really have nothing to add on this but uh we'll throw up this is the mCP uh that you've received that's been revised to reflect that last deviation that we feel is appropriate as all the other uh 7-Eleven have address that again the elevations uh that were proposed and the renderings and we're excited to see this third one uh get to this level and then uh come out of the ground and service the community so be happy to answer any questions our uh team's here uh again thank you for uh the opportunity just a I know coun Woodson you weren't here for the the first one could you just for the public that maybe didn't catch a time frame if this gets approved to when they could expect to see groundbreaking and then the time it would take to complete so we're looking at uh because of the location we're dealing with a little bit more of the environmental permitting uh uh flood proofing Etc so that's going to take a little extra time to get those construction plans so we're looking at uh perhaps another 6 to n months uh to work through those permitting and approvals and then I believe the construction that we were saying is about another year year from that so uh six to n months and then the year of construction wow all right yeah it takes a little time but at least we're here and that's right taking it Taking It To The Next Step any questions for Ken Council Ken none Vice M nothing Council Woodson I'm good Safford none all right thanks again thank you now open public we now open public comment are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in any public comment Madam clerk do you have anyone nobody for this one right seeing no one stand up we'll close public comment are there any additional comments rebuttal or closing statements from the applicant shaking their head no all right I'll now close the public hearing and request a discussion or a motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain Mr Mayor I move approval of ordinance 24-14 I'll second a motion by uh Vice May edal seconded by councelor Woodson any further discussion vice mayor hi councelor Woodson hi councelor Safford hi councelor King hi May motion carries unanimously thank you thank you now we're switching these so we're going to move to item D wait for the chairs to the musical chairs they noisy this time this is the first reading and public hearing of an ordinance entitled an ordinance of the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida amending a rest restating ordinance number 22-06 to amend the schedule of uses for the commercial plan planned development Zoning for the property located at 230 2301 2307 and 2311 a stero Boulevard and a 111 and 121 Mango Street generally identified as strap numbers 29-4 6-24 dw311 0.0010 and 1 19- 46-24 dw3 d0120 e. z19 and 1 9-46 d24 dw3 d0120 e. z20 and 1 9-46 d24 dw3 d0120 e0030 Fort Meers Beach amending the master concept plan for the restaurant uses providing for revisions to conditions of approval and deviations and other clarifications as necessary providing for repeal conflicts of law scrier severability and providing for an effective date we'll now open the first public hearing if any Town council member has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or observations made of the site ccor Safford I've had some discussions with uh Don and Mike Miller okay councelor Woodson I've had discussions with the owners as well as I've received a couple of emails um about the view corridor okay I have also I'm sorry met with the neighborhood group okay last week I have also met with the neighborhood group last week um I've talked to the app the owners I have also received a couple emails about the view corridor um and some potential noise issues uh and that's it VI May the same for me Council King meeting last week with a neighborhood group uh and a couple of emails regarding noise complaints Jason SMY has been qualified as an expert already by the Town Council and based on his education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Mary's Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time I have before yeah was same you guys are becoming Staples here have to start charging your rent or something I don't know the uh has the property Happ about that has the property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from staff yes yep okay go ahead good morning counselors my name is Jason small I'm with your planning and zoning department excuse me as was mentioned uh this the CPD Amendment covers uh four separate Lots uh collectively known as a Sandy Bottom CPD uh the the requested application amends an existing CPD ordinance passed in 2022 uh the Amendments and deviations requested uh total nine deviations and 12 conditions of approval at the end some of those are going to be amended some of them are brand new uh this is in uh so this is comparable to the 11 conditions of approval and 11 deviations that were approved uh on the pre ordinance so the applicant is requesting to again amend uh some uses in their uh in their schedule of uses they are uh asking to amend or include a a series of deviations some of them are are minor changes to what had uh previously been approved such as the the widths of buffers particularly along the area in the back of the property that butts up against the uh the residential area behind them behind them uh during the LPA meeting most of the discussion itself centered along a few different requests for uh deviations and a few different uh conditions of approval uh in particular excuse me there was discussion uh a lot of discussion about the change in the area so they are requesting uh previously they had a th000 square ft of outdoor space in the 20206 ordinance uh their current request is to create a roughly 2750 ft uh Tiki Hut and that would uh Encompass all of their outdoor service area in the front of the building uh some of these deviations include a reduction in the minimum setbacks um changes to the setback or the um uh Bill to lines and in in total they're they're asking to change the amount of parking they're asking to expand the uh available space for outdoor service along with alcohol Service uh they are asking to extend their uh outdoor service area by an hour uh staff has countered with a uh request to keep the outdoor service the same as what was previously approved so they are proposing going until 11:00 p.m. staff has has countered with the option to keep what existed before which would been a 10 10 p.m. stop on outdoor service the uh restaurant itself can continue to um to be active up until midnight as was previously approved in the 2206 ordinance uh so they're they're requesting to extend that an hour uh and then um that would allow for them to serve alcohol and food up to 11:00 p.m. outside uh also one of the discussion points before l PA that that got a lot of time was the question of the reduction of the site triangle or site visibility triangle in uh in the code it is required to provide 10 ft along a stero Boulevard and along fair weather uh they are asking to reduce that to a minimum of 3 ft and there was some discussion about whether or not uh that helped hurt or kept the uh the site visibility as you're coming out of fair weather and entering a stero whether that was a net positive or a net uh net negative the uh the discussion before you today is is going to uh range mainly on just sort of expanding the out the outdoor use and and reducing the parking um it's been noted that on previous plans that the Town Council has allowed for the reduction of parking uh they are asking for approximately a 35% reduction in parking uh that number is slightly different than what the uh applicant has proposed in their application and that difference in the ratio that they're asking for comes down to them requesting uh to take off two of their parking spaces in exchange for two four uh four bike racks so a total of eight bike rack parking spaces uh staff just wanted to point out that prior to now and the Precedence that we work under uh only one of those uh reductions for putting a bike rack in has been accepted per project but uh the applicant themselves um is aware of that that was a discussion at LPA and staff just wants to express it in the most uh conservative way possible so staff notes that they are requesting a 35 a total of 35% or excuse me 38% reduction in the parking whereas previously under the uh previous CPD they were afforded a 30% reduction so I think it's fair to say that they are asking for an additional 8% reduction compared to uh what existed in the previous business on that lot um I know we've gone over a lot of a lot of ground so far but staff is here for any questions or concerns that you may have and the applicants representative and the applicants themselves are also here for a discussion questions for Jason John no not at this time ccor Woodson not at this time counc Safford uh not at this time I don't have any yet okay thanks Jason good morning mayor Town Council again uh Ken Gander for the rec record certified planner here on behalf of the applicant uh Property Owners Mike and Don Miller of 1249 Estero Adventures LLC um I'm just going to move more quickly through this um Jason did a excellent job of laying the groundwork of this why uh what led us to this point through the existing CPD um just real quickly we're looking at uh four Parcels uh the future land use map category of Boulevard existing zoning as uh stated before is commercial plan development um as we all are very familiar with the site uh the corner of it's at the it's an interesting property for to say the least uh the Angles and the orientation but what I want to do is just reiterate what our request is an amendment to the exist ing resolution again wanting to work forward of reopening that restaurant with those hours of 7:00 a.m. to 12: midnight having outdoor seating and entertainment again we are as Jason uh reiterated uh or pointed out the expanding of the seating area and underneath that uh seating area will be a tiki structure that's integrated with the existing building and a component of that is to allow for the outdoor entertainment uh we are acknowledging uh that until 10 p.m. as uh was uh stated from Jason also uh continuing with the identification as was approved previously for consumption on premises uh moving to uh the master concept plan we wanted to uh focus on also working through the maneuverability of the parking lot before it was one way in one way out now we're able to orient uh the parking and provide the appropriate separation between parking the drive aisles to allow for full circulation we also wanted to relocate the dumpster so it could be more easily serviced uh by the uh Waste Management provider Ken before you go on from there yes what did you do to make it so that you could go in and out from either direction you're not widening those entrances are you the W entrances are not necessarily being widened it's just the distance for the access aisles where the parking space is above one another to ensure it meets code for when cars are backing out so then you could have that dual uh maneuverability the not just one way if you're if you reduce those down to around 20 ft you can only have a one-way Direction so through the orientation and the uh fixing up of that parking lot we can provide for that 22 feet minimum and I'm assuming that there's nothing I've always been curious as to why that was one way mosquito Pond has to stay there is that just for water runoff that yeah that's storm water management yes sir that was originally seems like a weird spot for it but yeah and it's it's it's a component of the odd structure and the orientation of the property boundaries it's it's how it was originally developed and they don't want to manipulate that or change that component of it okay so then North uh or just south of the uh main structure is you can see the dash lines apologies for the small size here but that's where uh the tiki structure would be and the uh location of the outdoor seating area one component that we are well aware of is to addressing that outdoor entertainment uh we have designated those locations with on within the master site plan concept plan is that's where the duo or they're just looking for more are the simple uh performances by uh solo artists more acoustical and those are identified specifically uh on the master concept plan where they are and they are designed to be oriented towards the Estero rideway directly uh directed away from any surrounding uh Residential Properties uh real quickly location inside design compatibility ideal location uh for this restaurant it was obviously restaurants beforehand uh continue to complement the surrounding uses uh in the area through the setbacks buffering open space site design and conditions uh maintaining that compatibility and the restaurants here existed without any known negative impacts prior we feel we're consistent with the comp plan and LDC this is a rendering of the actual construction uh plans that are being developed for the tiki structure this is a rendering although it a little cartoonish but uh it's it's something appropriate that we felt helps just add the liveliness and the aspects of what is being proposed at for Sandy Bottoms these are a renderings of uh the of existing Tiki structures by the contractor that is uh working with the Millers to build so it'll be very similar in nature to these very open air U and your traditional Tiki uh type structures uh what I want to do is really jump to the deviations as uh Jason mentioned and uh what we were working through with the LPA uh we feel that they do uh meet the plan development the intent to redevelop the property due to the impacts of the storm uh we do feel that they what we're proposing do not negatively will impact the Public's health safety and Welfare and consistent with the comp plan uh we are doing uh a deviation for the parking adding uh additional from 30% to a 35% parking reduction through that uh we're adding bicycle uh parking uh racks uh we're also ensuring that we have the appropriate connectivity for the pedestrians from the structure from the use onto the street and integrating that with the existing Transit stop that is out there already with regards to the visibility triangle uh and I think that was what was mentioned before of the view corridor but it's a visibility triangle and what I want to do on this slide is identify on the left is uh conditions prior to the hurricane and this is uh tables umbrellas Landscaping Etc uh patrons uh within uh that visibility triangle and that uh per your standard in your code is 10 ft back from and this in this instance would be the edge of the new sidewalk that was constructed along a stero Boulevard 10 ft into the interior this can be seen in the bottom right uh photograph or the aerial showing the red triangle that is per your standards 10 FTB back and extends 150 ft down a sterile Boulevard but through this uh application of the visibility triangle there's a unique traffic pattern that's associated with uh this property and due to the transit stop or the trolley stop of Lee County Transit the travel Lane of a stero Boulevard deviates out farther into uh the center of the road so it Alters your traditional uh visibility triangle and it Alters the person's view that is uh on fair weather going onto a stero it changes their Direction and view down a stero Boulevard so in essence it it it changes the dynamic of how that standard would typically be applied this is uh actually I was at the intersection and took a a photograph of just how I wanted to experience what we were dealing with out there in terms of conditions as of today uh don't know necessarily where the cars are but they're uh it was just it was yeah I I I have I have skills but I didn't think I had that uh level but uh you can just see those existing conditions and from that we wanted to what would actually putting the tiki hut and let's establish a rendering that we could uh see what we're dealing with and so this is a rendering of the Tiki structure with the Landscaping that we're uh that code allows us to have as long as you're uh keeping it free from Limbs and Etc from 2T to 6 ft so Palms are your typical uh would be an appropriate uh landscape uh type of vegetation out there uh the posts uh that our render our renderers uh did they actually used they look like palm trees uh in terms of the vertical support structures and that uh structure is set back uh about approximately 3 ft so it's right on that where that existing patio or the outdoor uh pavers are and then extends uh back into the uh property so what we're looking at and Under Your Land Development code it provides for the standards for your visibility triangle but it understands that you could have uh visual obstructions you can have your Landscaping you could have umbrellas you could have people sitting eating uh those type of things but it also says you do these things and or provide for that equivalent visibility and from what we have analyzed what we're trying to uh provide for in terms of these renderings uh the design of the structure the orientation or the adjustment of the travel Lane and uh the prior conditions uh addition Al to this is we feel that it was appropriate to limit and let me get back to this this is a blow up of the master concept plan and the area identified within the yellow circle is a restricted area in terms of no seating no uh uh any of that nature within that portion of the Tiki structure and what uh the Millers would be proposing is you could have some interest in planters or uh interesting things that would be enjoyable by the patrons there but it would further restrict that ability for any visual obstructions for individuals sitting within that area and we're committed to providing that but uh we certainly agree with the staff report and recommendation of approval uh but through our analysis and our explanation we believe that uh the deviation uh which is 11 but it's actually number nine under the ordinance uh to allow for that uh 3-foot uh Vision visibility triangle as appropriate uh we had a recommendation of approval by the local planning agency we feel we're consistent with the comp plan the LDC and all the application requirements and we respectfully request the Town Council to propose uh the proposed resoning amendment on first reading as submitted and presented and be happy to answer questions and we have uh my partner here Mr Patrick vanz who's been working on this with me so can I've got a question you you stated that the reduction in parking would be 35% yet Jason said it was 38 what's the right number [Music] sir I believe that had to do with the bicycle had to do with the bicycle okay okay so the the original request from the applicant was to go from a 30 previously approved 30% uh and increased T to a reduction of 35% that included uh two credits that they were claiming for bicycle racks this is a well well trodden um ability if you're redeveloping or or doing new development to be able to reduce uh one parking space for the addition of four bike racks uh they're attempting to use two of them eight bike racks total uh the Precedence with staff and because we would note that the the code language has no upper limit so you could theoretically put in 30 bike racks at four four per bike rack and effectively get rid of all of your actual vehicle parking So based on the Precedence um and based on staff's reading of that code section we we're only allowing them to apply for one credit for one for for um bike rack um the difference there would mean that instead of their calculations at 35% which would be them having a requirement of 52 parking spaces and providing 34 in staff's view it's actually a requirement of 53 parking spaces and they're providing 33 so the difference there between that one parking space credit that they were looking for is roughly 3% thank you Jason don't run off I got a question for you on the the conditions in here you had mentioned there was a difference of opinions between 10 p.m. and 11: p.m. correct they had they had initially proposed a u allowance for 12 a.m. so that the outside area could be used through the entirety of their day uh the staff had come back and said well the original approval that you were given is 1: p.m. for the outdoor area to try and respect the uh the residential uses around there and so we had prop counter proposed that as sticking with the with the timing that was approved in 20206 and then uh I believe just prior to the LPA meeting the applicant has come back with a compromise asking to go to I believe 11:00 p.m. which would be an extension of an hour uh beyond what currently is approved cuz in your conditions number seven you've got the hours of operation will be from 7:00 a.m. to midnight 7 days a week for both the restaurant and outdoor seating area right we took that directly from the the justification language that came in from the applicant uh from the application and I apologize we'll we'll kind of Gussy that up and make sure that it reads in line with what staff has proposed but today I believe are you guys asking for 11 I want to let's talk about that okay and and then you've got the Amplified music till 10 p.m. on designated areas of Master concept plan that's assuming the patio right that is that is the outdoor patio area and that was staff's counter proposal is to keep the hours until 10 p.m. that were approved previously um and then if the Town Council determined that they wanted to extend those hours uh the applicant may or may not be asking for that additional time now okay the reason I bring it up is we've been getting some emails about noise and parking correct the way it's currently set up um people just parking in the right away parking on other people's properties and it's it's frustrating some of the neighbors as well as the the music and the noise and their concern is that this has been a in the past it's been a breakfast place so it's been you know morning traffic versus evening traffic so they have concerns in the neighborhood about the the noise and the and the parking where they going a park um so I just wanted to just got another email as we were talking about it so I just wanted to make sure that you're thinking about that when you're talking about the conditions and I'm sure Ken wants to come up and say something about it but ABS it's something we should be cognizant of because it is going from a a bagel shop to potentially a a full out bar and people in the neighborhood are concerned that it is a neighborhood and and this could completely alter where they bought on a quiet street so just want to keep that mind as we continue to discuss absolutely and uh if I if I may shoehorn one thing in here that I had intended to to put in my initial um breakdown of these of the uh application their their schedule of uses is also proposing um the use of a food truck and to allow that as a byright use there was some discussion at uh LPA about would would it be better to put on some sort of conditions to try and mitigate any problems with that but uh just wanted to make sure that that was also mentioned here that their schedule of uses does propose by right um the use of at least one food truck full-time uh the schedule of uses seems to indicate that that would be full-time there was discussion at the LPA meeting about whether or not they would be interested in a compromise to allow for them to continue the food truck usage under the um temporary use uh the emergency temporary use rubric for the extent of their prep to get ready to build and once they had received either cosos or initial permitting that that TR that food truck would then come off of the property uh but that was not changed as a or that was not added as a condition of approval from LPA so I guess maybe this is more for Ken is is so is the intent to use a food truck until the building is built they're going to put a kitchen in it I assume they're not going to right want a kitchen and a food truck the intent was as Jason reached out to us saying hey do you want to think about the opportunity for a food truck as the evolution and going through the permitting and that's what made sense that's the intent is that the food truck would not exist past the full functioning of the restaurant they need the space for to support the restaurant not to support a food truck but it doesn't read that in the way the conditioning is written at least the way I understand it it it we would be happy to read it is it it' be you could have it anytime you wanted it we can certainly come back at second reading propose an appropriate more descriptive uh condition for that use um if I may let's go back uh we my discussions with Jason and our understanding um let me just make sure I get to the conditions and we're all looking at uh the exact same uh on on our page 646 647 646 647 of 755 um starts on P right um yeah I don't know which one you guys are looking at what we're looking at is the hours of operation of the the restaurant um and we would like to maintain that as it's written the 7:00 a.m. to midnight however in terms of the music and the Amplified music we are okay with restricting that further back down to the 10 p.m. rather than what we had originally proposed is 11: p.m. and I think you know through our effort of identifying uh where that music can be uh performed uh where the entertainment can exist the orientation of it providing for where it is it's not going to be a tent it's not going to be exposed as what uh is occurring out there currently and our understanding was there's the town can offer special events permits so a band could be uh applicable for that special event but what they were would be proposing for normal uh entertainment during regular hours would simply again be that duo or a solo artist uh performing so it wouldn't be to the extent that uh the initial uh special event that they had the other day so I just wanted to make that clarification any questions for Ken not at this time M no so was it so I just want to be clear on one thing so you just talked about the 7:00 a.m. to midnight inside and outside restaurant and outdoor seating area yes but what staff is proposing is 11:00 p.m. service outside 10 just 10: p.m. so that the service outside would stop when the Music Stops okay but they could still operate inside correct okay and I think that was some of the concern that some of the residents had okay talked about having the even though there' be no music out there you know it could still be pretty loud and they're concerned that they're they're uh they their their living might be a little I can't think of the word I'm trying to might alter their their their quality of life there you go that's what I was trying to come understood so where did I hear 11: p.m. service for outside that's what the that's what they're proposing as a compromise but then it sounds like it is changed no that was just for the out Amplified and outdoor that would be your condition eight is what so I think there was level of confusion in terms of so you're seeking to go to amplifi music till 11: that's what we originally proposed we are good with as a 10 the 10 okay but now getting further clarification outdoor seating area eating and service service till would be to 10: is well till 10 and we just feel inside outside food service the service just be maintained consistently between the two is what we would what we're preferring yeah I mean that's the only thing that really gives me a little bit of pause because of the neighborhood you know we have received a few people that have and not everybody's here so not everybody's going to hear about it maybe we'll hear more between first and second reading but right so we can certainly we'll evaluate that and uh I'll speak with Don and Mike and okay come back and have a better uh appropriate uh consideration for uh a revised condition because I think there was some confusion too that for the grand opening and unfortunately I wasn't able to be there but there was a special events permit for that so it's not like your everyday music that is going to be occurring there and they're obviously well aware of the process and the procedures that they must go through right uh they have actually G uh provided a idea of when who's going to be performing when and what what uh special events permits that they would like to be seeking so they're they're planning for all this and they're aware that they want to be that good neighbor uh and but we can certainly respect right because I think they proved that with the whale and made all the conditions and that type of thing per entire time so we're seeking Sandy bomb's going to be a different venue uh for that uh for that context of where this is in the town so okay and you are they planning on operating at 7:00 a.m. in the morning I me breakfast or is it we just made 7:00 a.m. potentially but that's when activity could be occurring employees coming in for early I'm just curious because I know that the old Tuckaway property always had an issue with funneling in from mothers and from Heavenly biscuit you know they had to have someone sit out there all the time to protect their parking prot I just wasn't sure if they were planning on operating that or not that yeah just curious it could evolve that maybe okay would to provide it for a breakfast K is is there going to be a a bar outside or actually full service bar I I don't know that question I received a nod yes that the outso area will have a service bar area for food to be served but like I'm not talking food I'm talking bar oh well alcohol could be served out there okay well I know it be serve but I'm saying will there be a bar bar out out there Mike you want to come up on mik yeah I haven't seen the floor plan at zoning level for hello everyone my my name is Mike Miller and uh owner of the property uh right now we would like to put a an actual bar on the outside of the property it has not been uh proposed or anything yet um that's something in the near future we'd like to um uh discuss with you know uh the town and everyone else about it just to uh we like to have like a a small you know sit down maybe u-shaped bar and then have seating going around um um it just all depends on you know once we get everything identified with the um uh the triangle line and what's going to go in there so we so we make sure there's no seating putting in there how much room are we going to actually have at the at the end of the day you know is it more viable to have um you know some high tops and low top seating out there and everyone we have the waitresses come from inside and deliver or do we have enough room at where we can put a nice little bar out there and be able to serve and take care of our patrons a little bit quicker Becky is that something that would have to be in this approval or staff whoever would we just want to make sure if that if that is your intent and it's something that has to be put inside the the application that yeah I I would be surprised if it didn't have to be in there Jason SMY Planning and Zoning um so in the schedule of uses they've explicitly asked for um as a byright activity on premises consumption of alcoholic beverage uh served in conjunction uh with the restaurants including the 2750 ft² outdoor seating area so the way staff understands it there's no need for additional special exceptions because the use explicitly for outdoor service for outdoor consumption is already being proposed as one of the schedules of use so so that would be covered under the schedule of use but then the building codes would be would determine where if they could do water and drainage and all that kind of stuff absolutely any of the utilities would be dealt with during um development order phase and if something needed to be changed around I I ostensibly would believe that they would do that at that point uh if it's not feasible then theoretically they'd have to come back can amend the CPD or or ask for additional approvals Becky do you think it makes sense to add that in just as even though it may or may not be needed through the building side of it does it make sense to put it in as part of the CPD process if they're going to potentially do it doesn't sound like they're 100% sure or not but it I would I mean if you should assume that they're going to do anything that they are permitted to do so if there's any hesitation about about it then you should you know remove that but if you want to allow them to do that wouldn't hurt to put it in to avoid having neighbors complain about it later and say it's not really allowed seems to make sense to me I mean just for that reason I could see someone later if this is approved saying well it doesn't say anywhere here they get to have an outside bar even though you're saying it meets even though it's not stated it still meets the requirements to allow it based on the way it's worded yeah our our code specifically says the the service outside not necessarily the physical presence of something that could be called a bar but the activity being used outside and again sta staff believes that that's covered in their request in the schedule of uses do you guys have any opposition to adding the what Becky is suggesting in there just to c ya assuming it get no we talked to to the Millers and we can identify that and when we come back to you it'll be shown on the mCP okay also for the record if I can just quickly address uh two minor issues as long as you say your name first also have an ass for the record um and I have been uh tenure that is an expert um so uh um one of the things that I want to clarify and I know that might be a concern for the Neighbors is this is a restaurant 100% restaurant not a bar that means that more than 50% of their proceeds has to be from food so want to make it that very very very clear not a bar it's a restaurant and secondly um while we certainly understand some of the comments that you may have received from the neighbors uh the initial weekend was a bit of an exception to what's going to be there in the future they had a special event permit also you have a tent covering the parking and that's affecting the parking conditions right now and as this gets approved and built uh those conditions are going to go back to normal parking will be available and hopefully that will resolve the issue I appreciate I appreciate you clarifying that it was the fir the one first day but I have at least I have I know I don't know if these guys have received a a second or third complaint about noise even after the initial date so I wouldn't say it was necessarily a complaint more than it was a concern that is this what we're going to have to deal with every single day going forward if this is approved so that's why I have a little hesitation with the midnight thing because you know people do live in the neighborhood and and their concern with um again it wasn't necessarily a complaint but more of a concern a heavy concern that this could be what they have to deal with every single day of the week and uh if you could keep that in mind and maybe relook at the 10 p.m. thing it might go a long way to help alleviate we'll discuss that with the uh with the Millers um also I think once we do have the tiki there it's going to be open granted and and sound travels but it will be hidden behind the existing building right and the the tiki will damper uh dampen some of that noise if I may uh regarding uh the aspects of parking and the additional percentage uh within our deviation we had specifically identified that we would like to uh apply those uh bicycle parking and we totally understand that you could abuse those opportunities and that's not the intent but I think there's through your policies and your comprehensive plan about the needs for addressing and providing for Unique opportunities for parking is I think that's appropriate that what we're asking for but nothing extreme of replacing all bicycles with opportunities for vehicles so okay any other questions for Ken thank you Ken uh public comment we'll open up public comment is any members here of the public who would like to wish a comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in public comment mik come on up my name is Mike Miller I'm a resident of Fort Myers Beach and I'm at 290 Bava um on the south end um some of the things I just wanted to go over real quick um the loud noise I understand completely with the the um the local community and and the neighbors what we've done also again we did have the special event permit we were not allowed to go above deciel ratings and of which I went around and went to a n a j a joyon adjoining properties and took meter readings we were still under the decel readings for that day and I do understand um they could still hear the music um you know that's not our intent you know that was just our intent for the grand opening after that what we've done is we try and keep our deciel readings I even got a a reader about you know 4 foot by 4 in by 6 in that that will give us a meter reading and we do it inside the building inside the tent and what that does is if we keep it at an 80 or 82 deel level inside the tent the a in Neighbors will not hear the music so and again it's a it's a one person or a Duo B uh you know band it where I want to keep the decel levels down um by no way is this the whale okay it's not going to be the whale and we have no intentions on making it like the whale this is a restaurant that's going to um serve liquor but has great food and um we want to be able to while we're sitting here today having this conversation this is the type of conversation I like to have while were inside the restaurant or outside the restaurant it where you don't have to scream or wait till the band stops to be able to have a conversation with someone that's the way Sandy Bottoms is going to be where it's it's a fun casual place to go to and if any of the neighbors have any concerns or things like that they feel free to get a hold of Greg or myself and um and we'll we take care we we we make sound a a priority because without the community and the neighbors we wouldn't have a restaurant and that's one of the things that we also want to bring up as for the 10:00 at at night on the um on inside the inside the tiki hut we really don't have a problem with that most people don't eat dinner at 10:00 at 10:00 at night they're probably done by 9 or you know whatnot so we have no problem with with um uh with the town's recommendations on 10 p.m. um you know as long as we're open up in the inside it's not an issue and uh last but not least what was I going to mention um oh parking um yes we have a parking issue right now uh because our tent takes up 80% of our parking uh the good news is my wife did Dawn did reach out to the Neptune across the street and they have graciously given us the uh okay to park on their property so what we're also going to do is we're going to get um some signs that says additional uh Sandy Bottoms parking we're going to put them arrows across the street and uh also we're going to take the initiative and go over they've got some debris and stuff in their parking lot we're going to go over it we're going to clean up their parking lot a little bit to make it more you know so people don't get flat tires or anything that might be might be happening and I know wee go ahead you're going to ask the same go ahead well I'm not going to ask the same question you were asking yeah I'm going to ask a different question I think uh as somebody who After the Storm I lived on Mango Street for a time I lived on tropical Shores way so uh I know those when I lived there we were PR for a restaurant in the neighborhood so I'm excited about that could since you're here Mike could you just explain a little bit about what's going to be unique and special about your menu at at Sandy Bottoms well Sandy Bottoms we're going to have a um we're going to go with a little bit of um um Midwestern comfort food with more of an island twist to it and also uh some signature Island dishes as well but we're going to cater to um it's it's not going to be an elaborate menu it's going to be more of a simple menu um I don't want to get into into what we're going to be offering yet because I don't want any competition going after us you know no but we we're going have some a lot of fun foods are um one of the things is our our Chef who's coming back mentioned to us he goes okay Mike um so when we get the kitchen built and everything's ready to go how long am I going to have you know am I going to have one week or two week before two weeks before we open to uh you know fine-tune these dishes and everything else I'm like uh you got about eight hours no but you know uh he wants like a week or two just to be able to get the dishes down perfect and you know uh we're going to we're going to figure out how to do that um but the dishes are going to they're going to be very very good food yeah I appreciate many different beers you going to brew we won't be brewing beer what what is the timeline there's I'm sorry it's approved for it it's approved for it but this time we won't be we won't be Brewing yeah what in a perfect world which we don't live in what what's your timeline for opening the the inside restaurant we want to be uh uh in by no later than October um the the building is structurally sound when I purchased the building um the roof didn't even leak uh we've had two of the HVAC units on HVAC units on the roof are still good just missing a panel they never got compromised um the building is solid um right now we're getting estimates for the um for the windows and the the inside isn't going to be very much it's a matter of uh six or seven walls uh because the whole place we already got the permit to gut it so it's been gutted and it's a matter of two restrooms an office a storage area and two walls for the kitchen and um then right now we're finishing up the uh the MS uh for the uh the kitchen and the bar area so that we can uh get that to to permitting right away so we can get um get the um get get the mechanical electrical and plumbing permits done and We're Off to the Races very good thank you m before you run off I know we don't normally ask questions during public comment but I don't know the you raised something up there that wasn't talked about when before we got the public comment you said the parking across the street yes is that something that you're going to have an agreement with them or is it just kind of a go ahead and use it for now I'm just curious if would be something that would alleviate one of the deviations okay no this is a go ahead and use it for now um you know since we are under a tent they're not doing any construction they're they're trying to work out what they're doing um and they're actually from Columbus Ohio and that's where we're from and uh uh but anyways you know um they were more than gracious to let us use it for now um it will not be a permanent thing in the future okay I think once the tent comes down and uh you know we won't be you know until they start we won't be utilizing their we won't we shouldn't be needing to their their um their parking we get a tremendous amount of foot and bicycle traffic right now and I was actually shocked very shocked amount of foot and and and bicycle par people amazing how things have come full circle and the Neptune had to use tuckaways overflow parking yeah yeah all right thanks Mike thank you any other questions I think we're good all right have a good day any other public comment seeing none we'll pull close public comment are there any additional comments or rebuttal or closing statements from the applicant no no okay I'll now close a public hearing and request a discussion or a motion from the Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain discussion Mr Mayor just just a point of clarification so what we're voting for today or Jason just so I'm clear the the restaurant will be open internally until midnight but externally open until 10:00 is that is that my understanding we're actually just voting for to take it to the second reading I got you but what we're taking to Second reading got it are we taking to Second reading 10:00 exterior 12:00 interior um thank you for making that point I was going to come up here and ask that myself so from what I heard here in my notes um yes the restaurant uh the interior restaurant would be open from 7 a.m. to 12: a.m. the outdoor service area including the tiki hut would be open from 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. at which all at which time all of the activity would then have to go inside for those last two hours and and just a nod that's the applicant's understanding at this point as well just so we're all on the same page yes okay all right that that's that's that was my question okay y good question um and one actually one additional question if there's any um if there were any recommendations about the food truck or any limitations on that staff is is here to to listen and see if y'all are going to put on any requirements about um the truck having to leave at at a specific time once they get permits if that's something that you're discussing or not I guess I I'm okay with it being there until they are ready to operate having having lived in that neighborhood uh having that food truck available would be wonderful uh as long as as long as they need it is fine with me as well so is everyone okay with until till they open till they open until they open okay so the once they get a CO then a final Co for the building I would say that yes or do we want to extend it until their doors open I just don't want to leave them without anything let's do it till they actually open their doors okay doors open upon opening all right um is there any you okay with that okay you okay with that because I think you're right people like having food back at that location after breakfast is served yeah excellent thank you Jason I'm not sure um I guess I'm not sure where this goes uh I'm not clear yet on the parking um there is no recommendation from the LPA on it um where are we on this I heard some temporary solution but so they would be requesting a 38 as far as staff is concerned a 38% reduction total from their 53 require 50 count of 53 parking spaces um so they would they would be asking for reduction down to provide only um 33 parking spaces and then the eight bicycle parking spaces and this is a temporary thing for just the tent or this is what they're asking for in perpetuity did you have something you want to say Patrick yes if I could address that um so with regards to park again for the record pavess um prior to um hurric Canan there was an existing 30% reduction uh part that parking was used also as overflow for the Neptune and um as we know a lot of people going to moms we're also using that parking lot and the parking functioned well um so right now in reconfiguring the parking lot doing the two-way and making it a lot more usable and efficient we lost a few spaces and we're providing a little more uh bike parking spaces we think there's uh enough parking there for it to function very well well it'll be configured in a more efficient manner and we think that as they mentioned we do have a lot of uh bike pad visitation and we think what we have is going to be sufficient already at 30 uh% reduction it functioned well we look at that as a 35% reduction staff as a 38 because of that bike parking but we we agree with them just a question of math but we think it'll function properly thank you any other discussion is there a motion I I'll make a motion to move ordinance 24-16 DCI 22449 amendment to 2301 2307 2311 esto Boulevard and 11112 Mango Street to the second reading of June 17 20 24 at 9:00 a.m. second got a motion by mayor Aller seconded by vice mayor adhal any further discussion uh I'm an i VI mol I councelor King I councelor Woodson I councelor Safford I motion carries unanimously next is ordinance 24-15 DCI 202 30246 125 131 through 151 School Street and 22 2661 to 2681 Estero Boulevard this is the first reading and public hearing of an ordinance entitled an ordinance of the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying the Comm Comm commercial plan development CPD Zoning for the property located at 125 131 through 151 School Street and 2 2661 through 2681 Estero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 19- 46-24 d W 3-20 c. 02301 19464 w320 c. 0270 19464 w320 c. 029 Fort Meers Beach to allow a mixed use development including lodging live work units retail and restaurant uses providing for other clarifications as necessary provid for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date we'll now open the public hearing if any Town council member has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or OBS observations made of the site counc Safford I had a meeting uh with a neighborhood group last week and I've had several conversations with uh Roman and Beverly okay uh same my meeting with neighborhood was this weekend okay I had meeting with the neighborhood group I have talked to Beverly and Roland about it I have received emails both for and against the project and I had lengthy discussions with Town staff over the weekend um concerning this this property I I I my my my experience parallels the mayor's and counc King again um met with the neighborhood group uh and have received pro and con emails Sarah pro has been a qualified has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field land of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Mars Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time that hasn't already been done everybody's already been okay has a property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from staff they're all nodding yes okay go ahead good afternoon uh Sarah propes with Community Development the neighborhood company on behalf of cottages at myerside LLC owners of 125 um and 131 through 151 School Street and 26 2661 through 2668 Aero Boulevard have applied for a commercial plan development resoning the property is currently zoned CPD and is in the boulevard future land use the applicant is requesting a CPD with six deviations to allow a mixed use development including four live work units 45 lodging units and 9,000 square ft of commercial space the proposed list of uses within the commercial space is attached to as exhibit a in the OR and or to the ordinance in your packet the request includes the following deviation requests from the Land Development code uh deviation from LDC section 10- 285 table 10-1 connection separation which which requires a minimum separation between streets and accessways the MC the master concept plan mCP shows a 76t separation from Oak Street where the code requires 125 ft uh deviation from LDC 10-46 a landscape Landscaping standards to allow the use of an alter alternative landscape betterment plan pursuant to LDC 10- 419 this section allows the applicant to propose a landscaping plan that is more effective or appropriate than the code required Landscaping a deviation from 341 1804a and section 34 2020 which regulates parking for hotels motels non-residential uses residential and combined use developments the deviation is to allow a 30% reduction in required parking from 89 spaces to 60 provided spaces uh a deviation from LDC division 4 table 34-3 for the CR zoning District which limits height to 30 ft um above base flood elevation uh to and three stories in height to allow a maximum zoned height of 37 ft and a maximum of four stories uh a deviation from LDC division 4 table 34-3 three for the CR zoning District which requires Street setbacks to be of 20 of 10 ft to instead allow for a build to line of 5 to 10 ft along a sterile Boulevard and School Street a deviation from LDC 34-1 1803 A1 which allows the conversion of dwelling units to hotel motel guest units per established equivalency equivalency factors to increase the byright equivalency Factor maximum 2.5 to 5.6 to allow a maximum intensity of 45 guest units rather than the 20 Allowed by R based on the subdivision of these Parcels um the previous subdivision of these Parcels a total of 12 dwelling units could be requested the applicant is proposing four live work units which means that eight of those units would be could be counted towards the lodging units 8 * 2 and 1/2 would be uh 20 units so that's how we get to the 20 uh the applicant is requesting 45 lodging units however and this would require an equivalency factor of 5.6 the proposed development would have a floor area ratio of 1.19 including all of the enclosed areas and parking below the building this is in compliance with the allowed F this is the first hearing for the proposed ordinance and staff is available for any questions you may have the applicant is also here all right John we'll start with you questions for Sarah not at this time John or vice I'm all over I know you are I uh I'm going to I'm going to offer a couple suggestions now so the applicant has an opportunity to respond uh first of all the town of Fort Myers Beach has a traffic congestion problem which we all know uh the myerside the proposed myerside project is in the heart of that congestion Corridor myerside has a parking problem so what I'd like to suggest today is the first uh uh opportunity to implement what I term a dra incentive DRC do not rent a car incentive this would involve guests who use Uber lift or a car service from the airport and they would receive a $50 credit for taking the Uber lift or car service from the airport to myerside and they would receive a $50 credit uh for returning back to the airport so when they check out it would in essence be a $100 credit only if they stay three days or more again to incent them to stay longer uh we need to have less cars on this island and we need to have less traffic on this island and myerside is in a great location for its folks to be able to bike and walk and and uh and get around the island in all the KE areas in a way that makes this incentive work uh I I know the chair of the LPA uh asked uh uh the neighborhood group about this at the LPA hearing and and the response was gosh well if everybody has this requirement you know we'd be comfortable with that that's that's a and I respect that concern but I it's also a glass half full approach if one looks looks at at this as a marketing opportunity to be the only and the first and only hotel to offer this incentive to their guests I think it could be attractive I think if if I came to a hotel and I I and I got to the check-in area and they said oh you took an Uber well you're going to get a $50 credit uh for your your your trip and a $50 credit back to the airport that enhances the guest experience it causes people to return back to those are the type of little things that encourage people to return to hotels plus again you're you're you're serving your your community better by helping us it's not going to solve the traffic problem but I'm going to offer this every time we have a new hotel that's asking for additional height and density and I think it's an opportunity for uh it could be a benefit for the guest it's a benefit potentially for the hotel and it's certainly a benefit for the Community to get less cars on the island uh I think two if somebody takes an Uber or a lift uh or a car service to Myer side they're not going to need a parking spot they've got some parking challenges so it really could help them on the parking side that's issue number one issue number two is the town has a need for basic medical facilities the applicant is uh very generously offered to have kind of a medical uh uh healthy lifestyle uh theme to their retail space on the first floor that first floor retail space is desperately needed by the town but there's nothing really in The Proposal that mandates them to do that and instead of using a stick approach I thought maybe a carrot approach might be better so what I'm going to propose today is that Myers side uh be given F if you look at behind Meers side the their their property AB buts the town's property and there are some parking spots that the town has now right now they're relatively busy while the town is here in these facilities but when the town hall moves to the south end of the island these spots that are closest to Myers say would be the least used least utilized spots that the town has in this area I talked to Jeff a little bit about it who knows boks well I've talked to Frankie and Andy about it um I'm not saying they can endorse it but at the same time they they they seem to at least agree that those spots are are not often used particularly with the town hall moving to the South End uh so what the way it would work is is that we would have the attorney work on an agreement with myerside where we would have a leasing agreement where they would share the spots with the town of Fort Myers Beach in other words so if if if the myerside folks were to have as a tenant uh in their retail area a doctor physician's assistant a nurse practitioner in in in conjunction either on their own or with an Urgent Care type facility they would be given five spots to use as they wish for their overall development incenting them to encourage these medical professionals to locate in their facility they would receive five additional spots if they were to uh incent a dentist to locate in their facility they would receive five additional spots if they were to receive a physical therapist if they were to acquire a physical therapist as a tenant so they would there would be a total of 15 spots those 15 spots are read readily available behind their building on Town property uh there would be no charge uh for to share these spots if we had a big at B Oaks or at the pool we would certainly the town would be able to use those as overflow spots to to to utilize when necessary but my experience has been on the island those spots are at least prior to the storm were not often used and we encourage we don't have a lot to inent medical professionals to come to Fort Myers Beach and if Myers site could partner with us to get those Med attract those medical uh professionals it enhances everybody's quality of life here on Fort Myers Beach it benefits Myers side because they get they get parking spots that they otherwise don't have and it's one of those symbiotic relationships that I think could really work well between the town and a development that's that's close by a town property so again I I I I say all this because I I wanted to give the applicant a chance to chew on this I mentioned it briefly briefly in a conversation with the applicant over the weekend and I just wanted to have my colleagues have a chance since we were not allowed to talk to each other uh outside these public meetings I wanted to have them a chance to chew on it as well as we move forward with the applicants presentation that's all I've got thank you all right Council Woodson questions for Sarah not for Sarah but that's a lot to think about Jim sorry I would have called you but I can't uh councelor Safford not at this time uh I just have one quick question and I'm sure I'll have more but why the difference in the staff reports when the last CPD came through the staff which was a far less intense and dense request staff recommended denial this is a far greater intense use and dense use and now the staff is recommending approval so why is there the two conflicting reports from the same staff it's not the same staff we're all individuals uh we evaluate it based on the criteria found in the code we evaluated it and determine if this was appropriate at this time okay we we'll revisit that later but I just wanted to just didn't looking at the old approval in this one why was there I just couldn't understand why one said no and one said yes but we'll we'll get to that later okay all right thanks good afternoon uh Mr Mayor vice mayor council nol Davies with the law firm of Davies Duke here here on behalf of the applicant uh I do want to address quickly and then I'll I'll work through the presentation um and allow the the planners to come up and and continue it um with respect to to Mr Vice mayor's comments um I know that we were able to speak with the client team in advance of today on the medical parking concept certainly you know would work with the happy to work with the town attorney on the specifics of of that Arrangement as a concept we think it's great we're we're agreeable to that um on the dra don't rent a car initiative um I think we have more discussion to do to do with that uh we you know we're not prepared to to commit to that or or not not consider it today we we'll give it additional consideration we'll certainly come back for second reading uh prepared to discuss that further um and so if if we may have sort of the additional time to um you know noodle through that right and think through think through that um we would appreciate the opportunity to do that um the the full project team is here today Beverly Milligan and Roland Wiman are here um as I think most of you know they've owned the property since 2012 uh the applicants professional planners are also here Mr glander Mr vaness uh the current zoning of the property as you heard from Sarah is commercial plan development CPD and what we are seeking uh today is also a CPD so this is CPD to CPD uh rezoning application this is not a comprehensive plan Amendment we are compliant with the existing comprehensive plan land use category which is Boulevard as you heard from Miss Pro uh we are seeking to change the master concept plan as you know the the the changing from the previously approved uh existing CPD zoning to a new master concept plan and in order to do that uh we are requesting uh a number of deviations as you heard uh from from staff uh we have complied with your process uh regarding the rezoning process we worked with your staff uh from day one on on our pre-application meeting we've had community outreach meetings uh and and and of course worked very closely with staff on the specifics of the application uh on the various conditions on the various deviations um we do believe that the presentations that you'll hear today from the qualified experts uh from the the client's planning team uh will provide you with the substantial competent evidence as your town attorney mentioned uh to allow you to to to approve this application and to give you the the sufficient evidentiary basis to do so uh and with that I'm going to turn it over to m Mr vas and then Mr Gander will finish our presentation thank you all very much thank you thank you and good afternoon uh for the record Patrick vanas certified planner with the neighborhood company it's a pleasure to be here uh finally in front of you and being able to talk openly about these projects um my role as part of this presentation is to give you a little background a little context a little history and I think it will address uh one of the questions that the mayor asked two seconds ago about the previous plan development and I think the the simple answer and I'll go into a little more detail is that the regime that we had at that time and uh the administration the town manager was a very different regime than it is today and I think uh that is reflective in the recommendations that we had at that time and the recommendation we have today um so with that being said I I'll jump into the the history a little bit um the subject property was developed in the 1950s and 1960s um it was a cluster of little cottages and those Cottages were rented out they were full-time residential rentals rented out to a lot of the town's uh Service uh industry folks uh we had some families there we had kids also that went to school uh right across the way at the beach school and for many many years the uh the community was a nice little community that thrived uh however in the 9s and early 2000s the um ownership changed and the upkeep wasn't done to the property and slowly the the the property be became dilapitated and you had a bad El that came in there and it uh quickly became an area known for having uh issues and having a lot of police enforcement and code enforcement um so this this nice little quain community that existed um wasn't that anymore uh but fortunately uh the applicants um Beverly and Roland saw the a diamond in the rough and they had a vision they had a dream of what they wanted to do there they wanted to protect those little cottages and renovate those and turn that into a uh small uh Resort and and keep that character keep that old Florida feel to it and uh about 10 12 years ago they bought the property and they set to work immediately to clean it up with pretty much as soon as they bought it uh the Enforcement issue ceased and uh unfortunately that was a great thing for the property for the town but their Co enforcement nightmare began at that time as mentioned it was was a different town manager different regime uh without going into the details uh of of what they had to go through I can just tell you they were treated unfairly um and and they had a very hard time getting through the process um one of the things that they uh did earli on on is ask for the back portion of the property that one building that still stands to convert that into a bed and breakfast so that was approved for the back portion of the property the front portion of the property operated as vacation rentals um however that wasn't enough to uh stop the constant code enforcement issues and what I would characterize as harassment and um before they invested a lot of money into the property they wanted to make sure that they weren't going to get shut down and uh that they would legitimize those uses so the process they went through was to go through that CPD and if you guys recall what was on the property obviously those those old Cottages did not meet current code requirements when it comes to building uh also the setbacks or not were not meeting uh the code standards so the idea was to go in there um so what they wanted to do make some improvements to the property and um get the ability to legitimize what was there and then with that approve approval feel confident that they could invest some money and really turn that place around and really renovate those those properties so um what Ken will go into a little more detail but this was the approved CPD at the time uh it approved um 14 lodging units um and what's important to note is prior to this we had 12 residential units and there's a difference between residential units and lodging units um so this approved 14 lodging units and the ability to convert one of the Cottages uh along a stero to a restaurant and the other one into a small retail Boutique that would be open to the resort the GU the guest there and also to the public um so how did I get involved uh when they were going through the CPD process uh I got a call from their attorney Beverly Grady and Beverly told me I'm I'm having a very very difficult time getting through that process and we need um we need a planner involved so I got involved and I can tell you it was an arduous process um when we got the final hearing there were many conditions straddled onto the property and uh also um I I took at during a recess at the final hearing I took our my client aside and I actually recommended that they they drop the the project and not move forward with it just cuz I thought conditions were too honorous and I I also thought that they were leaving too much density on the table and the density is important I think we're going to discuss it in detail today um and and that's what I'm going to finish my portion of the presentation with uh uh this property was previously platted and it was platted with 12 single family lots as you know anybody with a platted single family lot can ask for a minimum use determination and get the right to build a single family home on that property so by right where we're starting from is 12 single family homes can be built there uh through that mud process um we also have the ability in our code in the right areas to convert residential Lo uh units into lodging units we are in the boulevard category that allows us to ask for a multiplier of 2.5 so you take the 12 lodging units multiply that by 2.5 you get the 30 lodging units so the way we see it that's a starting point that's what these property owners have by right and what they could come in with and go through the do process condo process or planning process and request those units um what you do have in your staff report is um discussion about the multiplier um we do not object to what staff has indicated of a starting point of 20 units but let me explain why the discrepancy okay and I think if you ask them they will agree with us that 12 units by 2.5 were at 30 if we wanted to do just lodging units the math is correct however we threw in four live work units and we were providing those as a public benefit unfortunately by providing those as a public benefit those are residential units so we take those aside and we're left with eight units that then can be converted to lodging units and that changes the math the ultimate number is still 45 lodging units with four live work we all agree on that it doesn't change that maximum number it does change how you do the math so I'll let uh k address this in a little more detail feel free to ask your staff I think we're in agreement as to how the math Works uh just it gets applied a little differently if you provide those live work units versus not providing those before you run off I just got a quick question for you how do you address I think we all agree on the two or the 2.5 equivalency Factor that's in the comp plan how do you address where it says in no case the equivalency Factor increases exceed the maximum intensities allowed by the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan so even at 30 units you're you're exceeding that 2.5S is that not the case because that's what was in the previous staff report that's why I'm asking about the discrepancy that's that's a by right um density also if you look at your code where that multipliers that equivalency ratio there is a footnote there and what it explains is you can ask for more through the CPD process and that's what we're doing okay and and the fact that I'm I'm being asked the question the easy example to provide because everybody's kept an eye on this development for many many years as Margaritaville and Margaritaville um and I went back when we put our application to together and before we came to hearing and I read the spikowski report that was presented to the LPA in detail and he broke down exactly what they had by right and what they were approved for and by right they had 84 units and they obtain three times that amount at 254 so and they utilize that that footnote in that table so we are utilizing the same process and uh we are asking for a uh an additional 15 units to what we could get by right and I would say on a slightly um well you it says intensity intensity is not density intensity is floor area ratio correct so that's how we should be measuring intensity okay just making a point wasn't trying to be argumentative no no I just wanted to explain like it's completely different measurements thank you MH [Music] Ken thanks Patrick uh for the record Ken Gander again uh up here before you um so I'm just going to walk us through uh some of it is going to be reiterated I apologize for that but I think there's important uh components to this again we're a CPD to CPD uh the overall request is a mixed use development uh consistent with the policies and your comprehensive plan for this area uh 45 unit Boutique Hotel neighborhood commercial around the 9,000 square square fet of area and as mentioned previously uh live work units uh specifically four of those so that is uh 15 lodging units and four live work units and the commercial uses uh as vice mayor adalt mentioned uh the and acknowledged the desire is for this health and wellness aspect of complimenting this more neighborhood area the Civic area of uh the town uh regards to consistency with a comprehensive plan and Land Development code uh it obviously allows us to request this reone to commercial plan development and is recognized as the heart of the island of the Town promoting infill uh mix of uses in this area and providing for that small scale uh retail and services can you go back one second sure just quick question for you at the public pres presentation of this if my memory serves me correct you were asking at the time for 42 units not 45 right what's the change to the additional why is the need for the additional three so as a lot of individuals uh or development is going through their process of evaluating needs and construction opportunities and we just felt that uh the 45 unit was an appropriate uh balance to achieve that so um I know it's just three units but they can make a difference just curious yeah again with regards to the subject property it's just over an acre in size uh future land use categories Boulevard uh existing use uh is a majority vacant there is a structure that is currently able to be utilized uh and we're very familiar with the surrounding uh uses it's right down the street from where we are uh you have the recreational campus here Town Hall facilities uh the inum uh the school and a mix of commercial and other lodging and public library and church this is an aerial photo of the property and uh obviously uh acknowledging the uses to the to the east there of the campus the school and the library and uh the vacant uh there a single family residence just directly uh adjacent to the property this is the master concept plan that uh has been developed uh to this point the Shaded portion is the footprint of the structure uh oriented towards the rights of way uh build the build to intent of what the town is seeking uh the parking is behind uh the structure uh some of the parking is designed to utilize space underneath the building uh to try and provide as much on-site parking as possible the access uh to the property is to the far uh Northeast portion what was pre-existing were multiple access points uh multiple parking that came off of the rideway now we're just focused on these uh the singular point at the northeast corner then with a uh right turn out on on to Oak Street and it's uh provides for that proper vehicular movements again the Meer side is in the heart of the island reiterating the idea of promoting that infill opportunities the mix of uses and it is that transitional Zone uh between your downtown and the other quieter Center of of Fort Meers Beach what we're wanting to do is focus on these Design Elements to AC activate that public realm the building towards the Estero Boulevard and School Street utilizing the build to lines and building closer to the the public realm uh as I mentioned before the vehicular access behind the primary building which is a requirement uh The Pedestrian arcade outdoor seating and connectivity to sidewalks along a stero forther promote that uh activating that public Realm and providing for and locating enhanced landscaping and buffering around the project so uh we as part of our Outreach to the community and we did a a pretty significant effort of focusing on appropriate design uh what what could this uh new project be like and so we worked really hard to come up with these renderings and we feel these are an exemplary example of what uh the town would desire for this uh heart of the island this is looking at the corner of Aero and School Street it's a prominent corner and so we wanted to make that a it's a prominent reflection of uh this project that uh is coming down uh hopefully into fruition um first floor is the commercial portion uh within that as mentioned previously it's an arcade approach so those uh doors and the uh windows are set back underneath the building so it provides another element of pedestrian uh getting out of the elements but also integrating with the building and the public uh Estero Boulevard sidewalk this is looking uh the facade or the elevation directly along a sterile Boulevard showing just a more broader perspective showing the varied roof lines the articulation of the facades uh the pergola portion that would be the uh deck area for outdoor uh an amenity pool area uh for the boutique hotel Second Story uh is your boutique hotel units third and fourth story as well again uh promoting the uh idea of uh stepping back of the structure and having those varied roof lines that we feel are very important in terms of the design looking down towards the public library which is in the background uh there this is just another view of uh myerside one of the I mean it's a simple element but it's uh written into your uh the comprehensive plan of in this area to have these Palm lined boulevards and streets and we're wanting to implement that we're wanting to promote uh that Visual and that experience additionally allow along School Street this is uh proposed enhancements even within the public realm uh for benches perala uh areas to uh for seating and complimenting the idea again for those Palm lined streets uh even provides for opportunities as students as they're walking from school or they could have a safe place uh to sit and wait to be picked up uh after school this is a view interior uh the parking interior and these are the initial ideas for where the live work units would be um now let me just jump back real quick so the live work units is to be the the thin part of the shade area along the western portion uh of the myerside project so jumping back forward that's that sector and built above uh the parking and something that I think we need to bring up it's necessary is initial designs and as we go through uh better ideas better Concepts these are were going to be more very efficient uh efficiency size but we think it's appropriate to look into providing for larger uh uh units uh maybe up to the approximately 12200 Square ft that could provide for multiple bedrooms families that would uh choose to uh live there and these live work units would be uh focused on the businesses uh at myerside uh and provide for that housing Within um convenience to their workplace so they can easily walk to and that is just promotes the idea of limiting those impacts along a stero Boulevard coming and going Ken can I ask a quick question on the on the live work units and and maybe if I could get your attorney to come up here real quick we just had I don't know if you were here earlier this morning but we had a presentation on a public housing type Paradigm or model if you will on the on the live work units for you guys as a private entity do you have requir IR Ms from fair housing laws Etc in other words do you have the freedom to select people who work on your Island are you allowed to I hate to use the word discriminate but are you allowed to discern uh you know somebody you require somebody who works in your and mean other words do you have the freedoms to do all that as a private housing provider much less stringent I was here for the earlier discussion much less stringent than those strings that are particularly attach attached to those funding funding sources are you exempt from the fair housing rules and and and and requirements I I think sort of the general concepts of um no discrimination I think the Fair Housing Act arguably still applies I think there are additional but you're allowed to you're allowed to require that they work either on the island or at the facility I I think we c yeah I think we can I think we can have um and would be curious to you know have a further discussion with Miss Vos but I think there's a way that we could structure that because I expect where you're going with your comment is that you know how do we make sure that these are people who are living and working on the island or who are working on the island and we want them to live on the island and walk to work in a so I think I think we can I think we can structure in a way it's much less rigid than than the programs that were're discussed this morning so I think we can structure in a way to to accomplish um to accomplish that uh that that concept all right thank you um so uh with regards to the live work and part of our evaluation of it and it was also discussed at the local planning agency a level that that would be desirable for us to really look into having bigger units and just just more opportunity different kind of uh units would this be appropriate with regards to height uh this slide just uh lays out for us looking specifically first at zoned height and that would be evaluated uh based on your 11t base flood elevation plus the 3ft freeboard and it's taken up to the midpoint of the roof which is 37 ft uh approximately then just obviously everybody uh wants to know what's the height of the overall structure and that would be 50 ft and uh four stories we're looking at in terms of adjacent buildings and we feel that what we're proposing is certainly appropriate they range from three stories to 12 stories uh sterile Beach Club five stories and the Caper Beach Club at 12 uh the library next door is an overall height of 59 ft uh three stories uh the residential home uh just next door is at 36 ft three stories as well um I think it's approp roate to also recognize under the towns Land Development code is it incentivizes or provides for opportunities to increase your height uh to uh 35 ft and three stories so that would be utilizing the what we're doing in terms of our design stepping back the structure but in terms of so that would be 35 ft and we're seeking currently a strict uh application a deviation of 7 ft but in the under your code you could provide for that design and uh reduce that to deviation of 32 ft or uh 5 ft um these next slides just uh provide alternative uh angles or elevations this is uh looking at uh School Street again showing the step back of the top floors the varied roof lines uh the balconies uh the setback of the Second Story along the corner uh it just provides for those elements and design that we feel that the town is working towards in terms of your code and your design to have in this area and this is pulling back looking towards the gulf uh down School Street now jumping in uh Patrick uh hit on this as well as uh Sarah and staff and in terms of the density again uh I have a slide here uh can hit on this or we can just simply discuss it further but the first scenario uh the two density equivalencies is you have the 12 Lots uh that have been found uh underlying platted Lots minus the four proposed work live work work live dwelling units that applies for the eight and your equivalency factor of 2.5 provides for that 20 lodging units so 25 additional lodging units Beyond those 20 uh lodging units under that scenario as Patrick mentioned uh we felt that the four live work dwelling units would be appropriate and a benefit uh complementing the town's policies for mixed use development uh for housing and opportunities for doing might be just a little part but it's it's a part of reducing those traffic impacts to have those uh uh live work units there utilizing that scenario it would be 15 additional Lodge units beyond the 30 Qui scenario just a quick question there if you know the thing about numbers is you can say them however you want and make them sound however you want right statistics numbers you can make them sound good and bad you you talked about the traffic in the four units I I agree with that but on the other hand you're asking for 500 times more 500% more if you're looking at the numbers that you have at the bottom could I argue that that would increase the number of trips to the island therefore causing more traffic even though you are saving with the four units so you're referring to the additional lodging units the 5 point whatever it is 5.6 the equivalence 5.6 right versus equivalence factor of 2.5 I mean I guess what I'm asking is can we agree that the four units would definitely be saving some traffic because you'd have people working but asking for a 500% increase would have an adverse effect on the amount of cars coming to the island well I think one analysis or one understanding is we've seen and we've done the analysis on prior conditions of the town uh in terms of uh the number of lodging units and number of dwelling units and those have significantly decreased uh since the storm um and what we're proposing in our opinion is is not to that significant level that would cause stero Boulevard to burst its seams it's always going to be that way unfortunately a stero Boulevard historically is been a constrained roadway and uh in terms of our additional 15 lodging units uh our opinion is it doesn't significantly degrade uh the impacts on a sterile Boulevard based on the historical and I think Patrick can maybe Enlighten us more on that well would you say that the the 14 units or the 12 units that you had originally versus what you're going to now would have a bigger impact than the 15 in addition to what you're asking for by right I I think your question is does one does one extra unit create one extra trip or multiple trips above that yes we know there are associated with every single unit our point is that when you look at Transportation you look you can look at it from so many perspectives and so many different ways of how you calculate things and that's why it becomes I I don't mean to interrupt I don't want I don't want to go down a rabbit hole I think we can agree that it's it's going to cause more trips whether you're taking an Uber or you're taking a cab or you're driving a car parking aside that is going to be more trips with what you're proposing versus what you had before the storm that's all I'm we can we can go back and forth about calculations and that's fair the point I want to make though is what are we looking what are we comparing with okay so we know we we did the math and we talked to the visitors bureau and and we looked at the statistics and what we can tell you is right now the amount of lodging units that we had on this beach were at about 40% as to what what we were pre- storm okay so how do we look at those trips do we Factor those out do we is our starting point where we were before the storm or do we look at the reality of today I think we look at the reality of today also and I don't disagree with you there Patrick I guess what I'm I'm trying to say is we all understand that what whether you're residential or what you're commercial and what you had before and what you can do now by right is substantially more there there's no argument that is going to increase M my question to your points is you can build 30 units by right is what you're claiming staff is saying 20 if math is the math right what and I've asked this to every single person that I've met with that has talked about wanting more units than what they're allowed M what is it that makes you feel entitled that you should get extra units from someone else that previously had them on top of what you can do by right and and why I'm asking that is because every single person is going to ask for more for the most part of what they could have by right with lodging units and what they can have by right now versus in this case what you had before is substantially more than what you had right and now to add to that Y and I just I guess I get stuck a little bit with the argument from people that well we're down 40% or we're down 50% and again those numbers depending on if you talk to the TDC don't line up with what you're saying but what whether it's this project or another project in the North End or a project in the South End why that becomes an argument just because we don't have those percentages of rooms were building back houses fairly quickly um that were one bedroom or two-bedroom airbnbs are now four or five bedrooms that are offsetting some of those rooms so I don't I guess I don't feel comfortable with that being an argument as to why that should be something considered for having to me it's like transferring density without transferring density you you're you're saying we don't have rooms therefore we should take some that were in another area and allow me to put them there no I'm not I'm not saying we're transferring density what's technically you're not right but yes and that's it let's not confuse things because I I think zoning tends to be complex enough and and Land Development code is is complex enough that we lose a lot of people and and let's not make sure that we're not talking about we're not transferring density whatsoever um we're not saying that we are entitled to to this extra density we are respectfully requesting is um when we talk about um units that we've lost either units from a lodging standpoint or residential standpoint I think we're all aware that it's very significant but that is one amongst many many arguments okay we've got a whole list of arguments as to why we need this and the very simple fact is anybody who's had to rebuild in this room and I for one have G gone through it you know the extreme cost of rebuilding extreme cost of rebuilding we had a code that was put together intentionally to slow down growth and to be restrictive and to make development difficult and now and and the reality then was very different we've had a devastating storm and Not only was it intentionally restrictive but now you try to rebuild after storm with today's reality it just compounds onto that so our regulations are outdated and make it extremely difficult for anybody to build a feasible project again we want financially feasible projects because we want business owners we want residents to be healthy financially because we want to thrive as a community we want a community that can collect taxes we want a community that can Thrive we don't want businesses that open and close so when people come in and ask for a little more from 30 to 45 it's to count for those extremely high cost it's it's to count for this great architecture that they're proposing it's to count for a true vertically mixed use project where you put commercial at the bottom you have to drive flood proof it because again the code requirements are very different very expensive and now not only are you providing a building that is true mix use but you are catering it to meeting certain a certain vision for the town and yes you could build it for half the price but we also understand what the town wants and what what's been articulated before in the comp plant and we're trying to produce a building that meets that Vision so we've also heard you know just just like the vice mayor mentioned those essential services to the residents again developing a building that will cater to that and try to attract those folks is what we want to do so in trying to create those benefits there is an additional cost and I think what we have to do as a community is look at the ask and just say is it reasonable in light of all those conditions and all those arguments transportation is one of many reasons and like I said we we we're happy to answer those questions but I I think there there are many justifications as to why we are requesting uh this project sorry didn't mean to throw you off track there it was in my brain so I figured I better ask it perfectly fine um that I think this and thank you Patrick for and that was excellent as perspective on that uh um again we're looking at the Meers side as being that true mixed use development what the town is Desiring again the Botique Hotel the neighborhood commercial and those live work units and I think it's important that we acknowledge that the LPA and through your uh leadership identified uh that you have done a council directed policy uh in terms of a comprehensive plan amendment to look at Flor eror ratio as being that tool tool to evaluate these mixed use projects and as again a Floria ratio is that key regulatory tool for seeking that desired form and arrangement for mixed use development and what we have under the CPD and then this plan development under the CR zoning uh 1.2 F now under your comprehensive plan that also allows us to achieve up to 1.5 f looking at those numbers uh the 1.5 maximum under your comprehensive plan would allow for a 67,000 300t building uh to Encompass all these components of a mixed use development well at 53580 FT our current design is just below that uh 1.19 F So based on you got 1.19 there but in your what you put in here you've got maximum floor ratio of 1.0 it's on page 591 of the packet that you guys submitted from the neighborhood group so I'm confused in the the two different numbers if you go to page 591 at the very bottom say maximum stories four stories maximum floor ratio 1.0 is that in our narrative um probably it um is there a page number on our packet it's 591 um it just has the the property development standards is what it says and then it lists the lot area with area depth the build two lines the maximum setbacks minimum setbacks and then you list the maximum Zone height maximum actual height maximum stories and the maximum air ratio floor air ratio I don't know where it would be in yeah that's the hard part here is finding Ken this one oh the schedule of you okay and I it's right above the thing from the Methodist Church if I may um as we go through these applications we submit something originally we get comments back we make some little adjustments so we apologize if that's the case it just uh yeah what is presented is accurate on the screen on the uh on the presentation and if there's a discrepancy will correct that yeah I just wanted to make sure that which one number was correct thanks Patrick thank Pat and just acknowledge you know on our mCP which is the guid The Guiding document that's associated with your ordinance also recognizes it currently at a 1.2 maximum F so we can certainly clarify that no that's I just was making sure there wasn't clerical errors happen all the time uh so I think the town is in the right going in the right direction and we commend you for looking at that uh aspect of using your fla ratio and under this uh application once adopted we would be consistent with that uh policy uh with regards to the ti uh the stero Boulevard as we all know is a designed constraint Transportation facility and it was determined based on that that the mixed use development will not create those adverse Transportation impacts on that existing impacted roadway the next uh area I think is just really important that we need to drill down on is the parking and application of your Land Development code standards uh requirement would be 90 spaces uh under our deviation number three we're seeking a 30% reduction which would then uh require UH 60 spaces and are doing this for decades now and understanding and dealing with parking and other jurisdictions and understanding the impacts of providing for parking to support your uses it's historically seen and it's actually in uh your compreh a plan under your uh appendix that speaks to um underutilized parking back in the mid 90s when the comprehensive plan was done uh it was looked at about 40% of the parking areas within the town are underutilized historically on average Across the Nation you're looking at a 25 to 30% uh parking that when you Pro provide the required only 30% uh uh you're going to have a 30% unused of that area again we all also know when you provide for all that parking it just encourages that vehicular use it's the convenience of it and that it certainly impacts your constrained Road roadway um parking reductions are allowed uh in other areas of the Town under your policy 3 A4 little I little I uh and it asks or encourages that uh the town to evaluate uh ways to ease the parking uh regulations and um part of that is also um under policy uh 1 A3 II and policy 7 F1 is encouraging uh shared parking opportunities uh what we're trying to do here at the Meers side is also so under your policies of your comprehensive plan is the multimodal approach seeking out alternative modes of transportation B bicycle use parking yes again we're looking at uh providing for those bicycle racks more than just the one for your one car we're asking for this is a bigger project so we feel that uh four bicycle spaces with 16 bicycle racks uh properly located around uh the project was appropriate uh commitment to having bikes for guests uh and to that have no vehicle uh encourage them to use the bike and hopefully be able to utilize the uh master plan that you're wanting to work on for your town uh accessibility to the re Le Tran trolley stops and the connective and The Pedestrian design to get them to and from those uh uh Transit stops we also think that uh as vice mayor adalt you were mentioning before what positive or what optimistic things can we look at in terms of how do we address parking and your opportunity or what you've presented to us is uh utilizing uh the shared uh opportunities uh within the town's parking areas but we also can look at valet uh the project is designed and there's areas that cars could be double parked and managed appropriately by the right valet operator uh that could provide for an extra 8 to 10 spaces uh prior to this Myers side an agreement with the town for parking along Oak Street that was around four parking spaces as I mentioned before the town wants to encourage shared parking agreements and that's just appropriate you evaluate what's near you what's within an appropriate walking distance what parking lots are underutilized at certain times of the day and we have opportunities with the church uh across from school Street potentially another 5 to 10 spaces uh we received acknowledgement from the Fort Myers Beach uh Library uh that they're very interested in working out uh agreement with the myerside folks for uh shared parking as long as the hours are appropriate and they're not impacting their services and that's obviously logical that we need to account for that but that's an area that we could uh look at and then as uh what you mentioned utilizing the incentive for other parking spaces within the uh Bay Oaks Campus uh is just it's a logical approach and then uh adding that to that how can we entice those uh uses that we really want for this uh area of the town and just you know kind of getting into the weeds but there's aspects of your land of elota I think is just encouraged to evaluate and as you all do uh when things come up but double counting of parking spaces if you have a bar in a restaurant you park the bar area plus you park the restaurant area so you're double parking the use that is all combined within that restaurant so there's potentially two to three spaces that we're having to provide that uh we feel are unnecessary and then just the commitment to the town and other stakeholders to establish the Implement as the town develops those comprehensive traffic impact and parking mitigation as part of a master plan uh it would be uh we're all about wanting to implement that or perhaps be uh uh uh enticing for those to occur we you move on you done with the I just want to ask question on the parking first I think Vice mayoral your suggestions and ideas are thinking outside the box I think that's very clever because the health and wellness I think is a very intriguing thing to all of us because we all know we need those things but there's really nothing that we can do as far as I know to make it a requirement that you have to have a dentist office or you have to have a a doctor but enticing parking as something to make them a tenant I I really like that idea um the other thing that I I in watching the the LPA hearing and then speaking with a few the members over the weekend it was my understanding that their their condition of approval was to come to the council with a plan with a parking plan an actual agreement to offset the deficiency of parking at least that's the way I interpreted and speaking with them it doesn't appear to me that that has happened or is happening right and our understanding as we've evaluated it and as the condition was drafted and uh presented at the LPA it was should these deficiencies be found or there's things that we would need to do we would then come back or have to mitigate that through and we presented here these are totally viable and applicable and appropriate and reasonable ways to address uh any potential uh parking issues that should come come uh into fruition as a result of the operation there's they don't want to no business wants to develop something that they're going to fail because of having not enough parking and we know that we need to do these means or other means or come back to the town and say you know what can we do and follow those opportunities for uh shared parking agreements or other ways and something new could come up down the road as the project is getting developed and it's going to take unfortunately you know another couple years for this to come uh into operation so but we feel what we presented here and staff can confirm our understanding was should these be an issue then we would address it well I I just I guess then we have a different interpretation of what what we heard and what their conversations with were with me about but okay my concern is if you have 45 units at the height of season you're going to have for 45 spots for your residents or for your we just assume that's less than what the requirement is but just simple math if you have one spot for for each guest that would be staying in the in the rooms that leaves only 15 spark parking spots for a 2500 or so squ foot restaurant and how 7,000 or 6,500 ft more of commercial space and is 15 parking spaces enough to facilitate that I I don't see how it could be right and our opinion is is that's the potential analysis that you look at is the use is going to be completely full all the time and you park for it and that's why you have these parking lots that are built and you impact your development with additional parking areas or you make parking areas uh that then become more more often than not underutilized so let's think optimistically and think about these alternative ideas of using shared parking areas that overlap in their parking you know sometimes rest uh retail businesses they'll be closed and then the restaurant opens up later so those aren't necessarily overlapping and part of the effort should we need it there's uh we can do parking studies that actually look at these are the uses that are coming and going and what can we need what do we do to mitigate those and what opportunities do we have so that that's how our position mayor yes um you mentioned the medical uses um you can restrict that so if is as a condition of approval you could say that the retail space has to be used for X the yeah because um it it depends upon whether they would agree to it yeah we we acknowledge that when you ask for a plan development you you need to provide your list of uses and uh in in some jurisdictions depending on the project they get restricted or they can be pretty broad um they can be very restrictive actually I've seen that yeah and and we it's not that we disagree with that what we've presented to you is a list of uses that we think are appropriate for this property as as you know it's been challenging getting a doctor on the isem having having a clinic so so again we we don't want to handcuff ourselves where we say medical professionals and next thing you know we can't find the professionals to to to be located there and again you're creating potentially an unsuccessful project because you've made it too restrictive uh the commitment is there to make it a priority we love the incentive that that the vice mayor has provided um there's already been discussions with those providers some of them have told us look we we reop off Island we're not coming back we've also had others say well we may consider a satellite office on the island so we're going to keep working towards that but but obviously before anybody makes a commitment the first thing they ask is well when are you going to build it what's it going to look like what's it going to you know and we don't have those answers until we get through the zoning process so we're trying to get there we're we're we're going to we're going to work hard to make that a priority and but we we can't just limit it to purely uh health and and wellness professionals and that that just wouldn't be acceptable if I could comment on that I I I gave that serious thought because if we were to bind them to a a doctor uh nurse practitioner physician's assistant or urgent you know in conjunction with either on their own or urgent care center and and then of course the other two categories are dentist and physical therapist for the total of 15 it my the purpose of of of not binding them is and keeping it flexible is that there are sometimes it's just difficult to attract uh that particular profession I I think we can do it I I what my concern was because they to your point Mr Mayor because they are not bound to this medical theme you know if the if the appropriate vendor comes in and says oh gosh we'll offer you x amount a month and it's a big T-shirt shop but they're they're they're paying crazy rent I I what I'm trying to do through the parking incentive is to say okay that's nice that you're offering us crazy rent but we lose these 15 spots and we don't have the ability to to function as a as as an entity because we're short on parking I was trying to use that carrot approach because it is hard I mean gosh we we desperately need a dentist we desperately need a some kind of somebody who can write a script and and the physical therapy piece is is huge on the island as well given our our demographics so so if if if we can say to to to the owner gosh you know okay it's nice you're offering me all this rent Mr t-shirt Mr Mrs t-shirt operator but you know if I take you then I lose all these potential parking spots I I it was kind of an incentive to further them along on a on a goal that they already have publicly stated but are not restricted to so it's a Sticky Wicket and and and what I was going to also add is a Proviso that the the the applicant can later post uh uh this process petition the council for an additional use in other words it's completely up to the council but but if they were to a year or two down the road they've got this thing built and they can't get a doc they can't get a dentist but they get a physical therapist or one of the you know whatever they end up getting but all of a sudden we realize and again I I didn't want to have this discussion today because I'm sure we all have ideas and and what those other options could be but just by example if if if if we can if we do not have a hair salon to cut men men's and women's hair anywhere on the island uh and they s they petition the council and say hey we got this great tenant and you know we'd love to have them here but we'd love to have the parking spots to come with them it fulfills a need that the town clearly states it needs then they'd have the ability to petition the council for that for those additional spots for that particular use again we'll have a better sense of where we are as an island a little further down the road but I I would encourage the flex possibility of that but it it is odd to your point Mr Mayor that they've come under this premise of public benefit with no real binding Provisions that require them to follow through on that and I I I it's it's it's in in it's a challenging issue and I thought through this sort of carrot approach it might accomplish the same purpose I think no and I I'm not advocating nor would I want to get involved in private Enterprise until you have to specifically do something that's I don't think that's our that's not our task that's not what we should be doing but to your point it's it's it's it's difficult to say we're going to encourage and what ifs and and make decisions based on what ifs and we hope for that's why I think it's it's interesting the way you proposed how you do that but there's there's no plan to say that you know if we're trying to make an approval for a deviation based on something that could potentially happen and parking is included and what you're so I agree with you it's a Sticky Wicket but I I want to be very clear I'm not proposing that we put stipulations that this has to be a doctor this has to be the point is is that they're asking for a public benefit yes and what they're offering is not actually scripted in their in their proposal and and it creates it's challenging but I guess it's aspirational I I actually came up here to to address uh something a little different but but I'm glad we had this this clarification um I I understand um and and Mr bone talked to me and said that uh he he was he was going to be commenting on this parking issue and clarifying things I I fully respect the lpa's comments on this and we are going to take um what was proposed by vice mayor under invis we're going to come back ready to address that at the second hearing I do want to clarify though for the record that Mrs probes read her condition into the record at the LPA so while they're saying oh we our recollection was different or this or that I clearly hear I clearly recall that being that condition being read out completely and everybody nodded so just want to put out put that out there for the record [Music] um sorry Ken I know I keep throwing you off that's all right I should be able to wing it right um I think you know as Sarah pointed out consistency with the comprehensive plan and you know our request is uh certainly reasonable uh for redevelopment the property um you know looking at the uh LDC uh can you go back to the public You skimm by so fast the public benefit part of it I haven't got there yet I went ahead myself too far oh all right I thought maybe I missed something no no I'll get to that yeah and so um you know looking at reducing uh eliminating non-conformities as we spoke with there's a lot of parking that impacts backing out or utilizing the right of away uh things of that nature bringing obviously building code and FEMA compliance uh the urban Services exist obviously for the fre development uh redeveloping again was confirmed not impacting uh a already constrained roadway uh the property was obviously pre-developed uh not any critical areas or natural resources is and just meeting the vision of the town for the heart of the island the deviations that we've requested uh again achieve those uh objectives of the plan development uh not impacting The public's health safety and Welfare uh the flexibility is enabled uh through this Redevelopment and they are consistent with the comp plan so the public benefits that we've listed and are on the record with our application again the elimination of the non-conformities that pre-existed on the site uh the intent of through unfortunately the aspects of the hurricane but it provides us to build a rebuild a more resilient and hardened uh project the site improvements and structure uh we're increasing the buffers setbacks uh where they're budding the residential uses and the Civic uses uh enhancing that public realm and creating that pedestrian friendly environment uh encouraging that bicycle and pedestrian activity uh thus reducing the vehicular trips uh through the surrounding uh roadway network uh as we were just hitting on uh the neighborhood commercial goods and servatives services that will benefit visitors and local residents uh with that specific idea to entice or look at bringing in the health and wellness aspect of that is uh an obvious uh need and hopefully we can provide for that uh and those complimentary uses to the csic center that was part of the vision of this area uh the coastal architecture uh bringing a building with uh proper form and design I think is a benefit to the the community and the Redevelopment of the island through a true mixed juuse project as well just go back for a quick second I just want to go through those simply because Patrick brought it up so I want to he brought up the comparison of the percentage um that was allowed for the Margaritaville Resort which is fair I think that's fair if you you want to use that I think we can agree that what you're asking for the percentage wise is is more than that so if we're going to compare the percentage of the increase we should also compare the the public benefits percentage wise we're much less okay fair enough so those say we less then so so we are asking if you look at 30 and go to 45 that's a 50% increase if you're asking if you're looking at it from the 20 uh base of 20 by taking out those live work units it's 125% increase what staff refers to is that multiplier right in in the Land Development code and that comes out to 5.6 5.6 I recall reading the analysis that was done by Bill spikowski and if I I uh if I'm correct and my memory serves me right it was 12 point something for Margaritaville yeah I don't so so yeah we are less okay we understand that we can't provide the amount of amenities that they can and public benefits because they're a much bigger property but proportionately we're also asking for much less Fair thank you all right can I move on to your conclusion there just real quick and I appreciate your patience and walking through this um so just as uh we agree with the staff report recommendation uh we had the unanimous recommendation by your local planning agency and of course uh respectfully request uh your approval of this uh resoning on this first reading so be happy to answer more of your questions but uh we feel you know what's before you is not ridiculous or audacious it's a very reasonable approach and the benefits provide us uh lead us to a quality Redevelopment opportunity in the town counc Safford questions for Ken at this point no okay CC won going to have a couple questions okay um not questions I'll keep my comments till the end okay Mr King nothing at this time I we wait for I guess this might be the time to ask so you guys are willing to take two of those units and and make them bigger so families can we would evaluate actually making them all potentially of the larger size that would as we talked about F that would change the square footage of uh the overall Meers side so we would be potentially exceeding that 1.2 but we would still be below what the council or what's allowed under the boulevard of 1.5 so we would still be potent under that I can we can come back with all those numbers uh for you but we would still be compliant with your comprehensive plan in terms of the the F of adding I guess you could say uh it would be almost 800 700 800 square fet per what live work unit so pretty minuscule and provides a great opportunity for families questions Vice May at all I have nothing additional thank you thank you okay find where I was on my cheat sheet now uh comment are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in I wasn't sworn in okay Bill Grady 430 Connecticut Street we got to get you sworn in want over there warn you in now you can stand right there do you swear or affirm that the testimony excuse me that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right um just a little background about 5 years ago one of my neighbors was visiting and she said you know they're going to build a goad you said it at the beginning what your name was they're going to build a sidewalk down our street no we hadn't heard that well the mountainous had submitted 500 $500,000 to build a sidewalk I went down and talked to every neighbor on both sides of my street kept a little spreadsheet said what do you all think we didn't want to do it so we came to council and um we had lots of people speaking and they said okay we're not going to do it um a year or two later some members of the council changed it came back up we went back around the street we as a street decided that we might might as well put a sidewalk down where we have the high traffic area where everybody turns on shell Mount that's what we proposed and that's what was approved um last year sometime the beach Baptists said they're going to build Miami beach at the end of our street I did the same thing I went and talked to everybody on both sides Andre Mah uh Mid Island our street a little hard to find people because most people weren't there but we all got together we talked about it and we said this is not something we'd like to do similarily when we heard that uh Myers side was proposing something we talked to each other about it and overwhelmingly I don't think I've met one person yet said it was a bad idea they like the design we like the design my wife calls it um Coastal stylish um well thought out we like the step back approach um I thought I like the idea of it being mixed use the people that I talked to thought it was nice to be mixed use we all like the ideas of bringing in some medical types of to help us out um so the commercial aspects are are neat the workforce housing everybody's been talking about it here someone saying we'll put it together for you um the the parking I look at is um my kids are 42 and 39 they use Uber everywhere they go and I think that is the generation that's coming on to our Island to go to Someone Like A A somewhere like a boutique hotel I don't see the Uber car coming on and off as the issue again this is my opinion that's not sort causing us to have not be able to leave Connecticut Street at 10:30 in the morning and get into tra um all these little Cottages are gone it's kind of sad they were unique they were quaint as I still bike up and down you know a sterile Boulevard um it's sometimes hard to remember what was there you know I think of the tahan kind of villages I think of row after row of you know park underneath and two units above it um I kind of look at at this as my wife and I have a little brunning joke oh we don't have that anymore um my wife also kids that she hated her old oven she loves her new one so it took us a year and 27 days to get back in we're excited to be there I look at this project I kind of think of it as um uh Beach funky um the style is exciting to to everyone I talk to that it makes you think oh it looks different it's not the cottage but it looks really neat and we're we be proud to be able to see that so I hope again my opinion my wife's opinion is that you would uh approve this project thanks thank you anyone else Jim Bowen Jim Bowen long day huh good afternoon good evening um just kidding um while the majority the LPA including myself voted uh to recommend approval of the project um I do not feel that the condition listed and exhibit a item s accurately reflects the lpa's concerns and the OPA spent quite a bit of time discussing density F height deviation public benefits both the Athletics as the previous gentleman said along with Workforce housing the largest part of our discussion had to deal with parking and mayor my calculations aren't quite as generous as yours the development code would require 89 spaces they're looking to reduce that to 60 they also want to reduce that 60 by four for a bike uh rack credit three spaces are designated for handicap parking to me that leaves 53 spaces for regular parking then you have a 45 unit Hotel plus four Workforce units I don't see anything that says a Workforce unit can't have a car to me that brings when the hotel is full there's four leftover spacers those four leftover spaces are probably going to be used by staff that leavs very few if any for 9,000 square ft of retail and 2200 including 2200 ft uh of restaurant this project isn't located downtown so there's not a lot of surplus or private parking nearby but the condition that the staff put in and I'm not saying that Sarah statement isn't correct but as we were discussing there was discussions going on Sarah was reading what she was typing but number seven says that the property owner commits to encouraging visitors and staff to arrive without a automobile if the proposed development parking needs exceed on-site parking the applicant shall provide valet SLP parking well a valet also still needs parking spots to be able to put the car Andor coordinate with adjacent property owners and or consider other parking options as the applicant has said there was discussion that before the applicant came to council that they would present you with Alternatives which they have done but that language appears to me um ambiguous encouraging has no teeth to it so um what it really says is we'll figure it out later well that may or may not work so um I I think the ideal situation would be some sort of uh condition that said before they got permits that they would present the council with an alternative for parking whether it's as you stated vice mayor a condition with usage whether it's an agreement with the library with the school or with the town but that um at some point they should be a definitive agreement as to where Surplus parking is going to be thank you thanks Jim can't believe you sat through this entire meeting is there anyone else that like to speak public comment come on up we just pull the mic down so we can hear youo what does that mean it just mean he made an assumption didn't he it means that they put the mic too high for you that's all it means you're not calling me vertically challenged are you no I'm talk I'm saying the mic is extremely too long I agree hi everyone I'm Sher deasi I live on Andre M drive and I have been watching this project all along they have changed so many plans to work with everything that has to go on rules regulations I'm a retired ICU nurse I have never seen this much in a meeting that everybody contributes to and it's it's pretty impressive I'll say but I think they have worked hard to get everything the way it should be I think they've worked hard trying to get it to meet the Island's needs and the general appearance I think has been great I love the fact that they're thinking of medical facility dentist cuz we lost all of that and I think it's really important to have that on the island as well as retail and restaurant and we need a nice hotel that simar to Margaritaville you know let's get this island looking nice not just like a big Square cement building I think they've gone over and Beyond um 100% in favor of it and everybody I've spoken to us as well so thanks for your consideration and let's get this thing going thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak no one no okay then we will close public comment are there any additional comments rebuttal or closing statements from the applicant no okay I'll now close the public hearing and request discussion or a motion from the Town Council to approve approve a condition deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain discussion I have one little housekeeping item on page 413 you in the ordinance that's written you've got the second reading is July 17th I think you meant to put June 17th just want to make sure that that's mayor I'll move ordinance 24:15 okay had a motion by councelor King I'll second had a second by councelor Woodson discussion vice mayor I I just want to get my colleagues comfort and support with including as we go to Second reading uh this Proviso of the uh partnership with the town to incent the applicant to provide critical medical facilities to the island in return for shared sparking parking spots that AB but the property uh that that that the applicant represents and owns um and again the provisos as I have stated them would be in return for having either a doctor physician's assistant nurse practitioner uh uh either one of those and and or in conjunction with an urg care type like type facility they would receive five shared spots a dentist five shared spots physical therapist five shared spots for the potential of additional 15 spots at no charge those would be shared I talked to the attorney uh over the weekend or maybe last week about how to design that language and uh uh and then I would also like to include a provision post this process that should the applicant uh have run into a unique or different tenant that sort of parallels these uh uh uh positions and or in need that the town uh need has just through the our development process somehow we just have a niche or we have a a vacuum somewhere for some other type of essential service provider for them to petition the council for to fill one of these other positions that they weren't they were unable to obtain whatever but I would like to have that drafted and included in second reading and I would also like I think would if the applicant has heard today from the LPA that that that they want a little bit more specificity on the parking issue and I think we have a wonderful solution for the for the parking issue as well as helping the town with its traffic congestion issue with this dra do not rent a car incentive uh which I can delineate as well with Becky and have included for second reading as well I understand the applicant wants some time to think about it and I and I certainly respect ECT that but i' I'd like to get the council's temperature as to as to as to is to at least have that drafted and and prepared to be included in second reading uh when it next I think Scott's right I think it's it would be June 17 so so uh just wanted to get my colleagues comments on that and and and support if if if you're comfortable with that so let's let's talk about the first thing can we get them to to commit to least 15 spots and then credit them back as they as they get those those three different uh doctors or whatever yeah the way it would kind of work from a practical standpoint is it the the uh I think Nancy did you describe it as a lease or did you describe it as a license it would be a license okay so it' be a license agreement where uh and again the the the kind of the exciting thing about this is that by the time the facility would be built uh the town hall would be on the south end of the island and and and those spots really do open up uh significantly so the timing would be good I think that those spots are going to be there regardless um I would Scott however you want to have that drafted I would certainly if we're looking if we look if we're if the LPA felt that there was a a parking issue still I I think if they commit to getting 15 spots from us then we we've just helped out but they've got to satisfy that that's the challenge and and and but I guess I guess what I'm asking Jim I I I love your credit idea but can't we also say hey 15 of those spots that you that that LPA or we feel they need that they least them from the town you could but again the volatility of this is that they may not be able to lure a dentist or they may not be able to lure a physician's assist or a physical therapist or a PA or an NP or a doc and that's that's the volatility of this it's also the flexibility where there's no mandate there's no punishment if they can't get it it's more of an incentive so certainly we could have the the license agreement set up but but I don't know that they would get credit for those spots until they actually fill them uh but it certainly would be a step amongst a number of steps they've re the applicants reference some I think the dra is another opportunity for them to make a significant commitment towards okay let's you know what I mean would be let's talk about the dra real quick there is no having owned a hotel and and vacation rental business there is no way that they should be in charge of seeing who drove who didn't drive when are they leaving what are they using I mean you you get you get people that come in Jim and their their cousins are in Naples they drive up okay now you got a car there you going to penalize them for that no no no let me explain let me let me take a to explain because I've heard a lot of no a lot of people a lot of people have voices but let me explain how it would work or they or they let's say they rent a golf cart now they got a vehicle well they took an Uber here but now they have a vehicle at their place you can't let me let me let me give you the let me just let me make my pitch and then and then certainly interested in your your thoughts this is this is strictly voluntary in the sense that nobody is punished for driving their own car nobody's punished for renting a car if you can demonstrate upon checking out that you've rented or that you've utilized a uh an Uber or a lift or a car service and they'll you'll have a receipt you just demonstrated as you check out of the hotel and you stayed for three or more nights you would get a $100 credit on your hotel bill thereby incenting people not to rent a car this would be just from the airport No Other location just from the airport we obviously have one major Metropolitan airport and so pretty easy to see uh whether you've got a receipt or not just hold up your phone hold up a p if it's a car service maybe you get a paper receipt and you demonstrate it upon checkout you get a $100 credit that's it I mean there's no there's no punishment if you don't have it there's no punishment if people rent a car or if they if they drive their own car this is a this is a really a clean way I've talked to a number of hoteliers about it and they really like how clean it is and and imagine from a marketing standpoint we just heard folks talk today about how the next my kids they Uber and lift everywhere they don't a couple of my kids don't even own a car they lift the Uber lift everywhere so it in sents them to to to to and obviously once you once you get here you you you ubered here and you you've lifted here you could just rent a bike you could walk everywhere you need you don't need a car at that point it saves them a parking spot uh it it provides a nice guest experience all of a sudden you're checking out oh I got a $100 credit for taking the Uber here that's a cool thing nobody's ever offered me that before by the way maybe I'll come back here next time that's a neat plus an incent you only get it if you stay for three or more days it encourages them to stay longer I mean it's not as complex or as punitive as you as I think upon a first appearance so if we don't do something different I'm I'm tired of the same Mantra on this island that oh it's always been horrible here there's nothing we can do we have to try something we have to I'm saying I'm not saying this is going to solve all the problems but if we don't try something particularly with this extra density coming down the pike our traffic mess is just going to get worse and I I'm just ask can we try it and and I I can't see and I've talked to a lot of Hotel people I can't see any downside to this given the traffic I mean that's the number one quality of life issue on Fort Meers Beach is our traffic congestion so so that being said I welcome your your your I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to explain a little bit more because I think it could work but go ahead Scott you got a lot more experience in this and I so wh which town has done this well that's the Bizarro World in which we're living in I just I I nobody's done it I'm gonna ask the attorney can is that even doable to to require a hotel to give give a non-drive credit I've never heard of that I I didn't hear him say required though a payout would the hotel I absolutely think it's it's a it's a great idea but you can't have government dictate that they do it you can you can certainly encourage them to to do everything they can to to have less cars and in fact I encourage every vacation r every Hotel on an island to encour encourage encourage but I don't know how you can dictate they do it you can't dictate it unless you have an entity coming in here and asking for special consideration they're coming here outside the rules asking for additional density and height in return for that they need to offer a public benefit and that to me is a minimum public benefit that they can offer is not contribute or exacerbate the traffic congestion here in Fort Meers Beach if they were just a hotel coming in here and doing their own thing without coming here for special consideration agree with you 100% no way we should mandate it on it but they're asking for special consideration here today and that's why I think we can make these kind of asks because that additional density that additional height has the potential to exacerbate traffic congestion I don't think it's going to solve all the world's problems but we have to try something we're going to have larger hotels coming down the pike asking for a lot more rooms a lot more Heights and dog on it I'm going to push it on them as well because first of all I think it could be a plus for them I think it's a symbiotic relationship for the guest experience to have that kind of a benefit and sense them to stay longer but IT addresses some of the parking challenges it keeps the cars off our Island and I just don't see a downside you're right when I go the Patrick said at the LPA gosh you know if every Hotel would have it we would go along with it well I'm not to your point I'm not interested in mandating on hotels who are already here and doing it uh doing it uh uh you know going backwards and going after hotels that have already set up their business model these are folks that are coming asking for special and additional consideration outside every other hotel that they're competing against they're asking for additional help and in return for that I think it's a it's a very modest ask it's almost impossible to track Jim it sounds utilitarian all that but again you've got gas com coming and going their their friends are visiting they they decide to rent a car oh you know what I I really want to go to santel you know what I'm not Uber's crazy I'm just going to rent a car I mean there's so many things changing you you reing them to to touch the guest some guests just want to be left alone I mean it's hard enough to figure out that they've checked in let alone how they got there and how they're leaving it's you no but but the guest is the one that brings forward the receipt for reimbursement yeah but so so what happens if they decide to rent a car then then they're fine then they there's no issues the the person who get the only hard Jim it it it sounds utilitarian but it's a lot hard but let me just make this clear because this is this is commonly misunderstood in the way I I say this if somebody rents the car from the airport and comes to Myers side that's it there's no big deal they pay they check in they pay they leave somebody drives their own car that's fine but if someone was to from the airport do a lift or a car service they check in they can demonstrate their receipt when they check out they get a $100 credit that's it every everybody who rents walks bikes golf carts they're unimpacted by this but the folks who take a lift or an Uber or a car service they're the ones they have the ability to demonstrate the receipt they get the credit I understand that they get there but once they get here they may rent a golf cart they may but we can't control that aspect of it hopefully they'll just stay on their bike or they'll walk down to these are this is the next Generation people will people will walk they'll rent the bike there they'll walk they'll they'll walk they'll use a bike service I mean it's the Myers side's located not off in the in the in the Hinterlands they have a great location they're located close to everything and again they could choose to do that again if people choose not to live from the airport they're not impacted at all they're not they're not there's not penalized they're not they're not hurt by any of this at all it's just those who choose not to bring a rental car or their own car on the island they get a nice little benefit and an incentive it's positive it's a carrot there's no there's no requirements there's no penalties uh I mean that's what I'm thinking about anyway I I understand both sides of this argument but let me ask you this Jim um I I come in in my own car and I leave it there and I walk the whole time I'm here yep but an Uber comes in and leaves I come in and I leave what what's really the difference there well the difference there is that you're not taking up the Uber is not taking up a parking spot and and clearly talking about traffic though right well there's there's the traffic and parking benefit but I get that if there are some people that will rent a car and then they'll they'll hop in their rental car and they'll just kind of cruise around each day to check things out or they'll take the car down to Margaritaville or they'll take their car down to Snug Harbor and you know and that's that's fine it's America they can do what they want there no there's no penalty for that but those who Uber and lift in are much more likely to hop on a bike walk explore and that's the new paradigm and if we don't I I just think that I it didn't go to solve all the world's problems but my gosh we've got to try some new things I think I mean and I am by no means an expert when it comes to golf carts but you can put two in a parking spot well that that that's important to know so I've heard I just heard but I I look at the price or the the credit that you're proposing and you know for a 45 room hotel or something to credit people you know $100 in their stay and so you have 10 of those in a week or 20 of those in a week you're talking $1,000 $22,000 credit I mean I think it's steep I think if you wanted to to depending on room number of rooms and that type of thing if you wanted to make categories like that but I think $150 each way I think it's steep if you stay three or more days so you're making a pretty big investment especially during season I mean I assume the rate the room rates are going to be between $300 and $500 I'm guessing maybe not but that's that's a pretty significant uh room rate and you get $100 off if you stay three days three days or more and the traffic on Fort Meers Beach is modestly helped I mean I I if to to try to set up a it's it's Scott says he thinks it's already very complicated imagine trying to set up a formula for PR rating it depending on the size of the hotel I I think it increases the complexity for what I've everyone I've talked I've done a lot of research on this to Uber and or use a car service is anywhere between $50 and $75 to the airport so this is on the low side of what it would cost to Uber or take a car service to the airport so and again this is an entity that's coming in and asking for special I'm not trying to punish them this is a this is they win on the parking side in this we wi we win on the congestion side this is an entity that's asking for special consideration they're asking for something that others don't get I'm not they have every right to do that I'm not I'm not castigating them for it but it's not like we're imposing this on some poor helpless hotel that's never come before the the government asking for the for something they're asking for special consideration so I think you know we can talk about that Karen that's a fair question uh in terms of what the fiscal impact is but I I think it's got to be enough to really encourage people to hop on that Uber and and and and and again it won't cover the tip it won't cover the whole price but it is that range is between 50 and $75 from Fort Myers Beach to the airport so I tried to pick the low end of that range to be sensitive to your point um I don't know just just yeah I mean I I uh there maybe there's a better number uh but I do think these hotels that are asking for more density are asking a lot from everyone here on for Meers Beach to suffer more traffic incrementally I understand but it's in an incremental degradation of quality of life and if if they can do something to help us mitigate that impact of their ask of more density and more height I don't think it's I think it's a it's a it's a it's a worthy and fair tradeoff I think in an effort to move this along I I've heard them say that they're willing to address both of your previous uh things about the dra and the uh and the um um parking for the medical right I'm I'm still not clear on the other one what was the other one you brought up the the other one is is the is if if they were to bring in this is there's three categories one is the first category is Doctor physicians's assistant nurse practitioner all three different entities can write scripts which we desperately need somebody has a sinus infection ear a pink eye whatever you know ear infection you know we can at least have somebody on the island who can write a script and that they get five spots if they get you know I was clear on that and it sounds like they're interested in that but you added you added a third one oh I thought I thought on the on the dra piece I'm sorry no I'm sorry know back to the medical thing if if if the applicant later on in the process once petition the council for another category that we that where where there's a definite need on the island that nobody else is meeting I think we got at least give him that right to petition for five more spots what's can we add chiropractor cuz I personally have a friend of the family we close can he we close the public hearing can we do we have to reopen it to allow comment now you can just say reopened I okay reopened go ahead I just want to make sure we're doing it legally appreciate I just wanted to suggest maybe adding chiropractor to the list we have a family friend who's a professional chiropractor um certified massuse also um and she is definitely interested in in um coming to the island I I have I have no nothing against chiropractors what I what I was trying to do uh in the interest of time is to is to provide this process for you so we didn't have this long debate about uh what are the people that do toes what what are those guys called a diatr uh chiropractor you know a a lawyer uh we do need a lawyer on the island I hate to say that but we do need a lawyer on the island hair salon I mean we can get into this conversation but we may know what that looks like probably further down the road but I'm not opposed to that Patrick I I it's up to the will of the council but I thought we'd leave a process to have that deliberation unless people want to include chiropractor right now that's fine too I whatever works well thank you for your clarification and you have my U consent and buy in just just so you can I can clarify for staff they need the spaces anyhow whether they got doctors there or a t-shirt shop right what do you say they're they're going to need those spaces right T-shirt shop they don't they don't get them if it's a t-shirt exactly but what are they going to do in the inter room if they need those spaces well they need they need to they need to petition us for another use then they need to if they get a chiropractor they we already know that that's the direction they're going they they're going to try to do the doctors they know they're going to go for the T-shirt or the the the bagel shop or something like that what are they going to do with those spaces are there spaces for those well no no the only SP exactly so why don't we just lease some spaces it doesn't matter who comes in well because we're trying to no but we're we're trying to incent them to bring in a dock and then they can come back later and it can be reduced yeah but I don't want to I don't want to remove that incentive but but you they'd still have the incentive but I I'm tracking what you're saying we've got to track something with these spots anyhow or else we're just giving away spots for we're not well I I so your point is is that if they come back they would lease for a price that's I think that's the option we're looking for Jim is they that any we you know so we get a a Ben the town gets a benefit we're making some Revenue off off the parking they need the parking it's a win-win for everybody and yes if if they get some doctors or whatever we think is beneficial to the town then we we give them a credit public Serv I will I will tell you the only concern that I have with the leasing of the spaces I'm not opposed to it at all it we haven't developed Bok yet we don't know what boks is going to be we don't know what the pool is going to be that's good point if we're going to Le spaces we better have an opportunity to get them back because although we may not be using those spaces now we may need them in the future and at the end of the day those are taxpayer spots so I would be cautious of saying you can lease these forever spaces today they they lease right away for their parking before right four four four and again I'm not opposed to it I just want to make sure that if this is the way it goes down that there is a way for the town to get them back should the development happen in that's fair and I think but but because there is no provision in the CPD that requires them to have these key medical officials to to to to push this incentive as hard as we can and as long as we can uh I think I think I think helps helps helps reach that goal I I think but but I'm not opposed to that Scott if we can't they can't find those spots and they want to the turn the lights out and they want to negotiate a lease price I mean that's I'm open I'm open to that okay all yes go ahead Sarah um so so the applicant does not feel they need the spaces um so I don't know that we even really want to start off with you know here are 15 spaces and then we'll give you a credit if you need you know if you bring in the doctor's office or KY you know the the original intent was if they did end up needing the spaces then they had to figure it out but we want to start off with they're not going to need them and they've already agreed that they want to approach this as we're going to find ways for people to not bring their car you know they' you know they may want to do things like rent out bicycles they may want to you know charge for parking a lot of places if you go to a city they charge you to park your car there so I mean it wouldn't be un it would not be an uncommon thing for them to say 15 bucks a day to park your car here and that would be a good incentive to not have people Park cars so they have a lot of options in front of them and by us sort of prescrib how they do that I think that we are putting them at a disadvantage and we're also putting something on our plate that the town would have to figure out we're not we're not prescribing we're saying if they if they come forward with this type of a tenant they get rewarded there's no prescription so I'm talking about dra you know if we want to get into the details of how they do that I think that you know the businesses are in the business of making money they're going to figure out how to make this work and how to make it but that's you're focusing on the parking problem I'm focusing on traffic well and and I think Sarah no disrespect but your point about yes they may say they don't need the parking I think you're hearing from everyone up here that we disagree with that the fact that we're having this discussion for a half an hour tells you at least tells me that there's an issue with the parking and to say that they don't need it I mean last I checked you work for the town not for them so does you as the staff or feel that they need do you feel that if we use the gyms or my analogy that you have one parking spot for each unit and it's 45 units do you feel 15 parking spaces is sufficient through the code to supply for 9,000 ft of retail space and staff staff what did I say no and staff and staff customers and staff is 15 spaces a legitimate number to to to service that 9,000 ft I don't know because I'm not in that business I'm saying that they don't meet our code requirement but that they would be responsible for figuring out how to make sure their parking worked if we don't think that it's adequate right off the bat then do we think that this is appropriate well I I mean I don't want to speak for my fellow counselors but I think the discussion that we've just heard over the last 20 minutes is there's a lot of talk about parking so there must where there's smoke there's fire and and you know in the staff report I saw that you you know you you feel that you recommend approval except for the request for the deviations which to me it's not very clear to me you're saying well I think it meets the appr I think I recommend approval but not really because they're asking for deviations so there's real there's no it's to me it was kind of left up as whatever you guys decide this wasn't you know I I like when when we ask staff questions personally I like to have a definitive answer this is what the code says therefore we require or we recommend approval or denial but the way this was worded this staff report to me was we recommend approval except for the deviation and and that's what to me that seems a little confusing staff recommendation is Staff finds the CPD with deviations meets the criteria but then as you go through it it says except there's a comma and says after each after each one it says except for the deviation recommend approval comma except for the deviation anyway regardless I I I will it we could go on and on and on about it but just um I guess I'll just make my comments you know I think Meers side what you guys have done what Roland beev what you guys have done with that property anybody that's been here before and saw what it was like before to say it was a yman effort is is I mean the tents and the homeless and the people sleeping in it and what you made out of that property was really really cool in fact actually helped Rolland lift up one of those big heavy pieces of the Tiki thatch thing I thought I was going to die thanks Scott I thought I was going to die too but uh you know so what you made to those improvements to that property is is amazing and what you've done with this property what you've done with this plan I told I told Patrick this a year ago when I first saw it when he and Ken showed me that was beautiful of all of the projects that I've seen so far is by far Bar None the best looking project on the island where I'm getting stuck and in this disc this discussion right here just re just solidified up until this point I was kind of back and forth thinking what am I going to do in this discussion just solidified to me or trying to fit a round peg into a square hole or a square peg into a round hole however you want to look at it there's a there's a lot of um unanswered questions for me there's a lot of wh ifs and we're going to certainly encourage and we're going to certainly try and and and as much as I want to get to a yes because I think this is a fabulous project I think everything that you the mix use everything that you've got Incorporated is fantastic where I'm getting stuck is on the scale you know you're you're asking for the trifecta you're asking for height you're asking for parking and you're asking for density but when I look at the benefits that are being proposed I can't agree with 50% of those as being public benefit uh as I told Patrick when we had our meeting I I feel that some of those are requirements that everyone has to follow as Patrick said he's rebuilding his property so he has to build back to the requirements not because he wants to because he has to and this property will have to be built back when I look at the size of the property I look at the the potential new town hall this building would be three times the size of that that's 18,000 Square ft this would be three times the size of that on a 1 acre lot to me that's very massive we've had a lot of arguments or not arguments we'll say constructive disc discussion up here about you know how how we're going to make parking work how we're going to do this how we're going to do that I've said it before and I'll say it again to me height doesn't scare me height doesn't add to the traffic problems I agree with the vice mayor the number one quality of life issue and comments that we get every single day what are you going to do about traffic for me I can in good conscience say I already know the increased traffic of what you're going to have there by right is going to cause and then allow a 50% increase on top of that I'm not opposed to something and then to go from 42 to 45 with really no explanation as to why what you presented to the public and what you're presenting to the LPA and the council has increased gives me some concern um I just don't feel that you whether they Park whether they take their car whether they're not bringing their suitcases here by bicycle they're not dragging him here they're not walking here the average check-in time is what 3 4:00 the height of the time people are trying to leave this island if you come by Uber you are still adding a traffic problem you're still adding to the traffic problem so I can't I can't see how we can say by allowing a 50% increase in density over what you can do by right does not compound that problem it's simple mathematics if you've got more rooms you've got more cars coming onto the island they may not be staying on the island but they're still coming and they're leaving and in the height of the season anyone that's tried to order an Uber to get off the island good luck cuz they're not coming to the island because they can't get on the island so if we really want to talk about traffic H how do we in good conscience say that we want to increase at a significant amount 50% of the density parking I think we can work through that with leas spaces I think we've worked through that again height I can live with a little bit of height because so many people do support it but I think the fact that you did such a good job at the neighborhood group and and and and B and Roland of Designing a building and listening to people has clouded people's brain in my opinion as to what the real facts are and the facts are what you can do by right and what the real quality of life issues are and if there's a way that we can get closer to something that makes more sense to to to me at least then I can get behind it but the way it's propose right now I I can't support it even though I really really want to trust me I do CU it is a beautiful project I just for those reasons I I can't support it at this time so we have a motion by councelor King a second by councelor Woodson any further discussion I'm going to say uh I I'm currently a yes and I I I would ask the applicant to help me to stay a yes with some of the things that we've discuss today that's all I have thank you okay any other discussion uh councelor King I councelor Woodson I councelor saff I coun vice mayor adal I and unfortunately I'm sorry I'm a no next is the administrative agenda we have resolution 24-120 fiscal year 2425 tentative millage rate Joe it's green shirt time team green shirt green shirt now we're going to have to take out for a new Podium Joe just about sorry for that okay hopefully so I'll try to do this as quickly as I can I apologize this at the end I'm sure this is the last thing you want to be healing or hearing and dealing with yeah I was I was on point though 3:00 I said you were close you close we're not done yet at nobody likes to show off all right Joe go ahead sorry so I'd like to begin by just explaining the statutory requirement and that is that we need to come to a decision um and provide the County Appraiser um with a decision as to what the maximum millage rate would be by August 4th and since there is there are no Town Council meetings in July um the end of by the end of June is the time that this needs to be decided no in order to make this decision and and as I was thinking about this and preparing for this I think there's really two factors one of course is the the general fund budget because the milit rate is really one of the primary funding sources of the general fund budget but this year um because we become so painfully aware of all of the emergency expenditures that we had to deal with and we actually went actually experienced it we do have an issue regarding the emergency reserve and the um level that that should be so those to me are the two critical factors in determining what the millage rate should be so I'll I'll start with um the budget itself I just tried to break it down into just a few components for you I'm sorry it's not bigger I thought maybe it' be easily seen but I could see it's kind of lost here sorry for that but um so I'm just in comparing F the FY 24 budget to the FY 25 budget um I selected like some what I think are important comparative line items that I think if um I I just talk through it briefly it'll make more sense um so if you look at the positive numbers so you've got base revenues were increased by about 360,000 there is an ad vorum tax increase of about $1.1 million and there's another slide that'll explain how that came about and then we have savings and expenses of almost $1.2 million where you would think with all of that that we should be doing pretty good but we're if you look at the bridge loan so we're going to be using less of the bridge loan this year because we have less um lost Revenue which which is a good thing but that's a $1. million reduction in that so we what what that is really telling you is last year we used 1.1 million more and this year we have 1. million we need 1. million less then last year to balance the budget we transferred that $831,000 for marpa we're not going to do that this year we revers that $500,000 for sterile lighting from that the previous year that was not needed we're not going to do that this year and was that $175,000 that we had in reserve for the health insurance um change over um that we were not using so we we had all of those reductions in revenues that kind of offset um the positives as far as like the the savings and expenses so that kind of kind of sets the background and maybe this will make a little more sense um as we go through this I wanted to explain to you then the calculation of the Ador tax revenue so at the Top Line you see what we had in 20123 the middle line that's highlighted in green is 2024 so the estimated taxable value ACC this is estimated now because we won't have the final figure until um July is gone up one I guess that's 1 Bill 54 m68 7,000 or 39% % increase of taxable property value so if you use the same millage rate of 99 that generates an additional $144,000 of Revenue or equivalent 39% increase there and then if you compare that increase to the budget we actually budgeted less last year and so the comparison on a budget scale is actually a 46% increase Joe before you go on these numbers is that is this the preliminary numbers from the the tax assessor yes we received them on um Saturday morning so he's saying we've okay so of the 40% initially or 42% that we lost at the storm this is saying we're gaining back 39% of that 42% no that's I didn't think so but well it's just wanted to clarify it's not it's not like we're going to be 3% short no it's it's it is a 39% incre starting from over last year right starting from negative yeah right starting from yes so um so budget wise it equates to $1.1 million increase in revenue and we only budget 96% of what the tax the estimated tax is just to um protect ourselves from any variation of that when they come out with the final number so that's why it's 96% or 0.9% 96 of [Music] that is it moving there we go okay then the calculation of lost Revenue um last year we tried to calculate or project what lost Revenue would be by comparing it to um the the budgeted revenue from 2024 to the budgeted revenue from 2023 because we thought what was budgeted for 2023 seemed like a a reasonable realistic comparison we could make but what we're finding is really um probably the more conservative approach and the more accurate approach is to compare to fy22 actual Because the actual is the actual and and it's not a projection but it's the actual so that's what we did for calculating the Lost revenue for 2025 so in the budgeted Revenue in 2025 without um including that Ador increase is 7.7 million you compare that to the actual Revenue in fy22 and that's where we come up with the difference being almost $2.4 million so I that is my best estimate of what the Lost Revenue still continues to be as a result of the impact of hurricane Ian and so that is what I'm proposing that we can legitimately use the bridg loan for um going forward to budget for next year the other critical component I think in in putting this all into perspective would be the emergency fund Reserve we really haven't spoken much about that I've been including it in um some of my reports um to the town manager and to the audit committee but there was a question raised um by a reporter that really made me think and look at these things and and they wanted to know how did did we have enough in reserve when Hurrican in Hit and what did we do to get through that initial period before we started receiving help from insurance in FEMA and so during those first two months that we were on our own before we received a penny of insurance money or a penny of FEMA money we spent $3.5 million that's within 2 months and so where how did we do that where did it come from we only had $537,000 in the emergency reserve the fund itself but we did have one, 60,000 sitting in the general fund that was reserved for emergencies and we had $600,000 of an operating Reserve in the general fund we also we had about $3.5 million sitting in the capital fund that was you know earmarked and budgeted for Capital Improvements that were supposed to be made that year when hurricane Ian hit so we were able to dip into that as well that $1.3 million of capital fund money we had on hand so that that is where that those are the sources that we used of cash to to pay for that initial $3.5 million doll of expenditures that we had to incur on our own and then we started receiving the insurance reimbursements and um the that initial influx of FEMA money of 7.6 Joe do do you think that that scenario that's the best optimal way to do it with reimbursement funds with the buckets that are there or would you do it different well no that's all we could do that's all we had available I mean but I mean moving forward oh no that's that's kind of getting to my point I don't think that that we should be dependent on having that I think we need to build up our emergency fund reserve and I think and I think well maybe this next slide if I remember right should help us so I think the target total that we should have just based on our own experience should be at least $3.5 million because we know from real life experience that's how much we could really need to spend and have on hand to spend and if we were faced with another um disaster like that so we only have like let's see let me go back to the previous slide when hurricane in had we had 537,500 [Music] th000 so it's it's it's about half as much we'll still have that $160,000 in the general fund for emergency reserve and the $600,000 so we'll still have that but in comparison to the 3.5 million that I think we should have we're short $1.6 million so I would say that we should try to our Target should be to try to build up that emergency fund Reserve by adding another $1.6 million to it at least but I think that's the minimum then okay so trying to remember what I was doing here with this well so as part of putting the budget together then this year um this is a preliminary budget if we start with at $7.7 million of Revenue before the adorm increase and then you add to that the $1.1 million of adorm tax revenue increase and then you add to that the $2.4 million of bridge loan the total revenue for the year is 11,2 42,000 and then the total amount of expenditures is 10 million almost 11 million so the difference there is 290,000 so I'm saying that we should take the 290,000 and add that to the emergency fund Reserve just to start with and that's just based on a mill rate of 099 just keeping it straight um then this then shows you you know the potential options going forward you know that we can consider that you could could consider so leaving the mill rate at 099 we already know that that would allow us to contribute 290,000 to the emergency reserve and then each increment of 0.01 contributes about another [Music] $36,000 or to um the emergency Reserve so that shows what we could do if you chose to raise the mill rate you know at each of those different in increments I did look at what the um CPI index was and for the the Tampa sa Pete area which is the closest we can get to our area as of March was 3.7 3.7% year-over-year so you could you know one of the perspectives you could take as well we could at least raise the millage rate by a similar percentage of the CPI so that would it to from 0.99 to about 1.03 so that's why I made that comment there and that would allow us to contribute 434,000 but these are the various options you can consider you don't have to decide today Jo um could ask a question sure because I'm I'm I'm thoroughly confused we just had Ron book here this morning yes and through this efforts of the mayor and the our our town team and and their legislative delegation in the budget for Fort Meers Beach is potentially $8 million in replacement revenue does that factor into your calculations at all I understand the budget's not been signed yet but we expect it to be signed within the next couple weeks how does that factor into your calculations well it it it does and it doesn't because I'm I'm not counting on it until we actually have it so that's but on the other hand we are using the bridge loan and I think I have it in here maybe sorry I just wanted to I did the calculation before I came of how much of it we did use or or will be using yes here it is okay so in 2023 we used 3 million 3.1 million 2024 we budgeted 3.5 million and now 2025 it's another potential 2.4 million so that's $8.9 million of lost Revenue that we've already are using we're going to be getting about 7.6 million so that's that's still not enough to cover this although the 2024 our current year figure that was just the budgeted number it's probably going to be less than that so when all is said and done we may maybe will break even when we get that but we do have the $ 11.9 million bridge loan that until something changes we're still required to pay that back and so we'll have to pay back that 11.9 this 7.6 may enable us to do that so that's how I and that's a low interest loan obviously correct it's a zero interest isn't it well the bridge loan yes it's 0% until it comes due and then it's 10% once it comes due and that's when just our current our curent well our current agreement is due this June 30th but we in our current agreement we're allowed a six-month extension I did they signed into legislation where we could ask for an additional two years but that is not what our current agreement says it's being considered to Extended 10 years and that has not been signed yet and as soon as it is signed we'll receive an amendment from the Department of Economic Opportunity who's the one who granted us that loan with with the with the money that we may receive through the budget of the 7.6 million replacement revenue does that have to go immediately to pay off the brid bridge loan we don't know here's here's where I'm here's where I'm going with this Joe fully respect your appraisal of the current situation but we have a very unique Dynamic coming down the pike with replacement Revenue coming in potentially I think a very good potential that happens we've had the the County Appraiser one of the sharper public officials we've got around here telling us that this is going to be kind of a rough year this this budget cycle but after that with the appraised values of all these properties rebuilt properties going way up we're going to to be in very good fiscal shape so it's difficult I mean the whole concept of a bridge loan is to get us over the bridge and so why would we raise taxes knowing that a year or two down the road we're going to be in very good fiscal shape isn't that the concept of the bridge loan and won't we then be able to then pay down that bridge loan with the the the increased valuations of our property and and increased Revenue that would be derived from that well the bridge loan is not supposed to be repaid with adval orm tax revenue that's built into the agreement so it's not something that we are required to count on or that we're is dependent upon it's dependent upon that for repayment it's on the non- adalum side of things so we're not expected to that all fungible though I mean if we're not paying for it out of the non-ad valorium side doesn't that leave more revenue from the advalorium side to offset that payment to offset the I guess what operating yeah I mean on the operating side what couldn't you would I mean it's all fungible in the sense that uh I guess times are about ready to get after another rough year we're going to have a some times are going to start getting really good and we're going to have a mill rate that's going to be excessive to what we need going forward and and we're having a tough time now we we've got the bridge loan we've got this replacement Revenue thing which is spectacular it seems like I understand you're you're you're appropriately conservative but it seems like the need to raise the millage rate at least from just listening thus far it seems premature and maybe we could wait till after the budget gets signed and then kind of see where we're at fiscally and have a better sense of things because I think portraying this right now looks pretty Grim but you get that replacement Revenue we get you know obviously this year's appraisal rates are going to be different than next year's are going to be a lot better uh I just think I don't know just just just kind of getting your perspective on those Dynamics well this is to this is to set the maximum millage rate it's not to set the millage rate yeah but you know we go through that dance every year well I'm just explaining so you but I made Jo we've also got storm water projects we've got our state revolving loan we've got canals we've got to clean out we've got you know other things we have to do that don't aren't reflected right here that we don't know the number yet yeah and and if we don't if we start burying a hole ourselves in a hole now from the last two years we might not ever come out of that even if things do get better on one side they might not the other here's here's our challenge Mr Town manager is that a couple years ago uh our previous Town manager was insisting on a mill rate increase it was very modest I think it ended up but for me it was like $25 a year was very modest but it was was finally after Dan and I kind of wrestled them down a little bit it was premised on three things for the town that everybody for the most part said that they wanted was new lights on a stero community policing and Beach re nourishment so I felt like I could go to the voters and say look this is a very modest millage increase here's exactly what it's going to it's dedicated to these three things today and I know we're in a much more volatile world it it would be difficult to make that argument it seems I mean we're going to have to get a lot more specific as to why the millage rate needs to be increased and why now given all these other moving factors at least for me and and I know you're in a tough spot because we don't know what what the governor's going to do yet etc etc but I do think as you guys begin to lead us in this direction you're going to have to give us two or three really solid buckets and maybe Mr your town I'm not disputing you Mr town maner this thing but you're going to have to say x y and z are going to cost you know a b and c and here's why we need the millage now I I just this this sort of and I when I say vagaries I don't mean you're being deceptive I just think it's there's so many moving parts right now and we're being told by the appraiser that things time we're getting close to times being really good again and and we we just got to get over the bridge and that's why we have a bridge loan so I just I just think from a messaging standpoint we're going to have to make the case in a very clear way and then and at some point you know and I guess this is the the fear that the cynism that people have of government if we raise the milit rate to get us over this hump to build up a reserve which I understand your desire to do that when times are good again the military never seems to come down again and I know we have the ability to do that but just never seems to come down again and so that's why I'm skeptical of going up before we know that we've exhausted every remedy so just just thinking out loud with you with all due respect yeah I and I think all you have to do is look outside the window to determine the projects that need to be done there I mean to to pinpoint three projects is going to be very difficult to justify a potential increase in in the millage rate you know I'm looking at it from a little different aspect we we have gone to both state and our federal partners and asked for help which they have given us if I'm sitting in that seat and and we as a town don't take care of ourselves and keep asking eventually to Patrick's Point that spet will get shut off you I'm of the mindset and this has been our message the entire time since the storm we're not looking for a handout we're looking for a hand up and so far all we've gotten were hands out we didn't we haven't done anything to to show that we we're willing to make the hard decisions to help ourselves and I think what Joe is trying to say is and this I mean we're we're not out of the woods yet and not being able to the bridge loan is there to help but at 10% interest that's crippling especially when you can't use the avalum to pay it back now I understand your point you can move it around but I think the unknowns again of of are we going to get the revenue replacement are we going to you know how do we go in good faith next year to Tallahassee and ask for the Forgiveness of a bridge loan if we haven't done anything to take care of ourselves nobody wants to have the discussion about raising millage rates um but I I think it's going to be very difficult to to pinpoint three specific projects to your to your your point Mr vice mayor of this is what it's going to be used for the entire Island needs needs help and we can't rely on someone else giving us money to do it and yes we will be in a good spot when some of these developments get built but we're three four years away from any of that having any impact on our on our bottom line and if we don't do something to to bridge that Gap what are we all doing this for why are we fighting and I don't even know I'm I'm Excuse me mayor I I'm just amazed that you guys didn't raise millage rate last year I mean we're we're we're going to have three tough tough years and we got to make some tough decisions and my mom's probably rolling over in grav you know having me talk about raising the millage rate but you gosh we're losing money every we're it's it's it's Grim Jim I mean we and we like Dan said as we're tasked with a really difficult thing here raising the millage rate but we have to look at this pragmatically and I'm a numbers guy we we need more we've lost so much revenue from so many different sources it's going to take years to build back and I just looking at from from a numbers perspective I think we're we have to take a hard look at raising this yeah I think that it's a fair argument Mr Mayor and and and and and I guess the the the counter to that is that you know you're asking people to make a sacrifice who've been devastated in in a devastating time and and and I understand the state and federal folks want us to do that but the reason why we didn't do it last year is that we were people were are genuinely hurting and and the the challenge of course is for a town like ours when we raise the mill rate everybody sees their property tax bill and they think that Fort Meers Beach is responsible for their property tax bill when we're 6% of their property tax bill the biggest issue and we're such a we're such a small piece of that that puzzle that that we bear the brunt of all that I do I I think it might be helpful at some point for Matt Caldwell to come back uh Assuming he's got time because I remember a much Rosier scenario than what you just describ Scott I do agree that some of these projects are two three four years out but he was if I if memory serves me he was given us a pretty Rosy scenario about one year out from from from here maybe one and a half years out so I'd be curious to hear what his assessment is or projections are uh given his data uh but but this is a good aru this is a good discussion I mean it's a healthy discussion I I you know I'm not I think everybody's motives are great here and but I want to I want to push Joe I want this to be a last resort not a first Resort option for us and I want to exhaust all I want to have that discussion before we move too quickly on that I guess is all I would say have we even gotten Joe to where you going to make a recommendation or are you going to you just putting a chart up there this this is my chart if you notice the resolution had dollar or pound signs for the rate because I didn't really know I know this is really a decision that that really you would need to make ultimately I wanted to just provide these options to explain to you um where if we did have an increase where I think it should go and that it would go towards um funding that emergency Reserve which I really think needs to be done and the point for today was that or this month was we need to set a maximum but we're doing it in the context of not knowing yet are these bills going to be signed so maybe maybe we set a maximum and then find out oh we we have now we have this good news these bills are assigned and so when it comes to actually setting the millit right we won't have to increase it because we'll have funds on hand that we can figure out how we can do this that's don't we also have some other variables floating out we've got all this FEMA money floating potential for reimbursement we've got this new cdbg which you guys ingeniously request I mean that was very clever the way you put that package together that's $15 million right there I assume that's long term before we get they'll see those dollars but I assume if those dollars come back that's offsetting some of this emergency Reserve fund right sir that the the money that we're requesting through cdbg we we don't have I understand so and and unless we're printing it it wouldn't have been there so those projects would have to sit there and wait until we found a funding source we we have multiple funding sources one of which is not our budget currently to handle any of the projects that we asked for so those it's like apples and ores we can't be talking about what we're requesting with the cdbg and what Joe's trying to do is trying to shore up our our reserves um the two don't even fit in the same room what we've asked for with the cdbg are to help us with projects that we cannot get fixed on our own poition uh projects that the state can't help us with projects that uh grants could piece meal together but would take years upon years to get to that point the cdbg gives us the opportunity to group these things into uh bucket so that we can get that immediate funding and take those areas off of our back and we can put those back into service um it's kind of a different conversation than what with Joe was saying that's not a revenue stream that we even counted on if if we were left without the cdbg those programs would have to sit here for another 15 20 years have appreciate that have we seen have we seen one penny of reimbursement via Title Basin and FEMA it we got again we have to make that clarification between Title Basin and FEMA Title Basin is our go between between us and FEMA FEMA has been tied up in financial add-on to bills at Federal level since last August um whatever the fight of the day was um their asks to help with our recovery in this part of the the United States was tied to those spending bills those spending bills still have not gotten ratified certain bits and pieces of those spending bills have uh funding to so and so and and funding to this project uh over here but the whole package itself got put back onto the ratification of the fedal federal budget yep so so the answer is no the answer is no sir and that's okay I understand procedurally the challenges but I guess my question is what is that outstanding balance because we generally the government works it out so if they should work it out what's what what's that number that's going to come Fort Meers Beach's way I I think our our number is right around the the two something uh two 2.9 Million and is that reimbursing us for money we've already expended a lot of it is money that we've already taken from other places so that money could go into a reserve fund right no no why not if it's re we asked a reimbursement for certain things not for general fund it's got to go to that they can't just go in didn't we use the general fund to pay for it we use emergency funding okay maybe what you don't see are the million details that we've been working through I mean I I have um a spreadsheet that's got 70 columns on it 2,000 lines just from the year 2023 and it showing it has all of the insurance reimbursements the FEMA reimbursements that we received all the expenditures and so I mean just to kind of recap it I I have it here and I could even send this to you if you'd like um but we we spent in 2000 this is just 2023 I had to put this together for the audit we spent $20 million in emergency expenditures we received um about well almost $10 million well let's say $9.5 million in insurance proceeds so that help pay for that um then of that we received I would say about almost $1 million of of FEMA reimbursements we still have about Joe you just said you received 11 million from FEMA re but then you just told me we didn't receive we haven't received a penny yet no it comes in different packages and has to get allocated to certain departments and that's what Joe's talking about here okay so as like a and Joe is that is that number that you're talking about is that include is the S and a half million we initially got as emergency funding right after the storm 7 and half million and it includes um almost 3 million for the Emergency BM that's that's all we received is really is that 7.5 million and the $3 million so that was not money that we paid out as a town that was money that we got from FEMA to fund those projects right which we did pay out I mean so right our our balance then I mean we we practically broke even between the insurance money that came in and the insurance reimbursements from FEMA but the the issue is we have we used insurance proceeds for things that we haven't spent yet so like for example the town hall I mean we we have the this we had this money come to us for insurance reimbursement for Town Hall and other buildings that we haven't actually renovated yet we haven't actually bought yet we haven't actually done the work yet so we had that cash suiting there we had to use it for all the other things that we were doing Joe do we would we even need that now that we're got an $8 million appropriation in the budget I mean for the town hall I mean doesn't that doesn't that cover us for that well we only got 1.5 million for the town hall I thought we got 8 million that's in the budget right now that we're waiting for the governor to no no I'm just talking about insurance proceeds okay all right but we've built in the have we built in the 8 million coming to acquire the new town hall no it's not we don't know what we don't know what's coming right but I'm seeing we wouldn't do that but we will in a couple weeks we will later but not now but we have to set this for advertising purposes for going forward you can't go you only get one bite to the what's our deadline to make that decision I'm sorry what's the date what's the deadline to set this set this perspective military again it's just the maximum so it's not setting it um but okay it's what do you have to decide about well we have to have it um turned in by August 4th August 4th oh so we have a little time to see if the governor signs the budget we only have one meeting left between now and August and so you're saying we have to make the decision today not today 17th no by the June 17th meeting unless if you call a special meeting yeah that's fine okay yeah that helps me y um I think Joe it's so there's so many complicating factors in your world and it's so challenging for you because I know you understand the complexities of it but I think we have to figure out a way to make a 10,000 foot argument for this and I think that's not necessarily dumbing it down but just focusing on the basic blocking and tackling and I think that's what I would charge our Town manager with look at you with a sports analogy well I just but I do think this is incredibly complex oh yeah and if we're going to explain this to to voters as to why we're doing this at least temporarily I think we need to have a very succinct as best as possible I know these are complicated but I think we need you need to help us message this uh certainly because I because the the taxpayers are I mean we got taxpayers that are hurting and and and they're going to ask why and we need to be able to explain it in a very succinct uh I'm very comfortable with the Integrity of these numbers but I do think we have to work on our messaging a little bit to make it easier to understand for folks given all the the complicating factors okay and I know it's not easy well just the one point of clarification I just like to leave with you there isn't a single penny of reimbursement coming from anywhere that could be put back into the reserve it's it's all it's all for projects that are yet to be completed so that's that's where it's coming so I I to your point and we go through this every single year it's it's it's the it's the maximum that you could potentially do and and we've at least since I've been here we've for the most part have always gone back down but I I think we have to send a clear message not only to our residents but to everybody else that's paying attention that we do take this very seriously I mean you you are the expert up there you're you're the one that has been doing this for a very long time and when I see you concerned that makes me concerned and if I'm concerned everybody else is concerned and and I can tell you I've talked to more people to Scott's point that are amazed that we didn't do it last year and we're completely understanding but you do have some that we're you know everybody's hurting but to your point Mr vice mayor there's a very small amount of that 6% of your trim notice goes to the actual town of Fort Myers Beach which is very minimal when you look at the amount of money that you're talking and and no one seems to have an issue when the library board increases their taxes or the fire district maximizes their taxes or Lee County you know they haven't raised it but we we have to be proactive here I think we have to set something in you know we'll deal with the shrapnel in my opinion if there's people that we have to explain whatever this maximum is is what it is it doesn't mean this would get at least this gives us time to find out are the two things going to be signed are we actually going to get those funds if not we're really going to wish to God that we did do something like set a maximum uh I just to me I think it just again when I see you worried that makes me worried and and just just re just cements in my mind the the more residents we get in their house the faster we get them in the house the faster we get out of this the three and foure projects will come when they come but it's the residents that we need to get back in their houses that are going to drive that number up which we saw just in the initial numbers so I I I'm comfortable with making a recommendation if we have enough support to do it I I don't want to continue to push this off we could wait till the 17th but I don't know if that's going to make a huge difference what what is what's ideal For You Joe to to make a decision today or wait till the 17th oh it that wouldn't waiting would not have a negative impact on me in any way that's fine in fact I expected you to wait so I okay that's would be fine okay so are you looking for us to give you a recommendation or wait till the next meeting to I mean I guess what I'm looking for from you personally is for you to tell me what a number is this is because this is what I've been accustomed to since I've been here is the the people that are in in the know that that understand and can see the deficiencies and see the strengths come out and say this is what I recommend and then we'll hash it out and if we agree with you we agree with you if we don't we don't but that's just my personal since since you are asking me I mean my my comfort level would be at like the 1.03 level which is because I think that's in keeping with the cost of living increased so to me I think that that's a reasonable increase if we were to have an increase and it would bring us about 434 ,000 doll that we can add to the reserve it's not you know it's far short of what we need but if we were to add that much like over the next like over a fouryear period like each each year do 400,000 starting with next year then in within four years will'll be at least to the minimum where I think we should be so it' be a step in that right in the right direction um but even if you chose to leave it flat at 099 at least we would still be contributing 290,000 which will help but um if if you were asking me my recommendation I would say the 1.03 yeah that's interesting I thought you were going to go higher than that I thought you were going to say the 1.06 because in my mind if this is just to set the ceiling with all the unknowns that we don't have what's the hurt of going to a 06 106 or you know what I mean I I would I would hate to say a 1.03 and then we find out we're getting nothing and we're like wow I really wish we would have gone a little bit more when you can always come back down and it's a struggle and I know people in the public to your point VI mayal don't necessarily see it that way um but you don't get the second bite at the Apple whoever said that you right once you said the maximum that's the maximum for that year so I I mean personally I hope that we don't need it I hope everything becomes favorable but I too would have gone to the max the 1.06 um because we can always change it by September but it gives us that flexibility and we do need those reserves that's been proven and to your point Andy it we have no money for any of this canal dredging or any of this stuff and our livelihood is based on our Waters and our tour and that type of thing and this this is so vitally important and to scrimp on this it just doesn't make sense to me we can always change it so I guess we'll make a decision next meeting on the 17th is that is that what everybody would like to do is that where you feel comfortable I I I feel much more comfortable making a decision on the 17th and I feel much more comfortable if the town manager makes a formal case for a number I I if the if the finance director says one 1.03 that's that's I mean I I just I'm not going to supersede your recommendation uh but at the same time I think I don't think a I think a better case needs to be made on the 17th for that number and I I I charge you guys with with Joe's help for to do that in a way that the publicans get their head around it because it's a it there's a lot of moving parts right now sure Becky do they just need to table this to 17th we don't have to yes any other discussion councelor King I've got a lot of things I want to say but I'll I'll save them till the 17th okay got I'm good I'd say 17th should be give us a couple weeks to chew on it well now our discussion has been out in the public so I'm quite certain we'll hear from people over the next two weeks on their thoughts one way or another Mr yes if you'll notice on that resolution it sets the September hearing dates if nothing else can we maybe agree on those sure so we can get them on our calendar let's do it what dates are they um September 9th and September 16th at 5:01 p.m. for both a by September what and what be in the evening could you say those dates again I'm sorry September 9th it's a Monday okay and September 16th and however you wish to do the meetings and at 501 right you have the second here September 23rd on here yeah you got I thought it's September 23rd 9th and the 23rd okay on the reso September September 8 7:55 cuz that's two weeks yeah two weeks so so the 9th and the 23rd at 5:00 51 51 they have to be after 5:00 P p.m. and the 23 confirming the 23rd then Amy the 23rd is correct okay good eraser and you can choose to do full meeting in the evening just the budget meetings in the evening the rest of the regular business during the day however you want uh it's like this i' go right into yeah I think how do how do we do it before Jim we did I think we did the meeting last year we did two is that what it was in the morning the morning a on the agenda too if there's a lot on the agenda if there's not a lot on the agenda we could we could do it both Vikings might be playing Monday night you never know that is the first week it's September to be out of it already Scott exactly they're done in preseason what are you talking about it's not like it's the Packers you know is everybody got the the dates the N 23 I think is everybody okay yeah all right with that then I will make a motion to table resolution 24-120 fiscal year 2425 tenative millage rate discussion until the 17th of June second Motion in a second any further further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none the motion carries unanimously thank you Joe next is the final public comment anyone here for the final public comment nope pretty empty final public comment is closed Town manager items thank you mayor I'll try to be um as brief as possible um next um hurricane preparedness uh on uh June 6 I'll be meeting with our staff will be meeting with Lee County Sheriff's Office and the fort Meers Beach Fire Department to just continue to prepare for hurricane season and uh re-entry things like that so we'll be bringing more information out and putting some videos out and I already talked that's also on the M&P calendar for Thursday too Andy correct yes and we're in the afternoon that day so mnps that morning yes uh cyber security training um we will all be having that at some point state law now is excuse me there's if we happen to be hacked it could be that we are responsible for some of the finances so we have to go through the security and and follow the state law so you'll be seeing more about that uh we do have a town app that we're working on that should offer some feedback with uh hurricane uh responses and and just interaction with our public so more of that will be coming out uh Nicole and I are working on that now and also with FEMA the national flood insurance program we continue to to supply all the information and we have everything and submitted everything to FEMA we had a meeting with them last Wednesday I believe it was and uh it was a feel-good meeting not a lot of uh discussion or nashing of teeth but at the same time you never know what they're going to do so they've got all our information we should be getting more feedback we met I believe they were met with us last Tuesday or Thursday uh they'll be back again tomorrow so we continue to stay engaged with them in in in an effort to maintain our our CRS rating it so how soon after the 10th which is the extended deadline do we expect anything they didn't give us a timetable they just said sometime after that they'll review everything and then they'll get back with us thank you that it s Qui question for the town manager uh there's this community gathering on the June 12th with this what's the name of the entity R2 P2 R2 P2 and the and the the agenda for that is Time Square and Newton Park Park and then the night before the the the owners of Times Square apparently are having an event at Diamond Head unveiling their proposal that's their private event yeah so how does that inter how does that are are are are are our Consultants going to go to their presentation because do you know I don't know if they're going to that presentation they've submitted something to us about you know more design and and we we have part of the project and part of the process is the townwide so they they' picked up on that apparently and and gotten that information I just got information about rp2 RP RP rpt2 is advertised that as Time Square and so they may want to come a day early and correct what the let them know come early if they want to yeah okay good good thanks sir yep Becky nothing nothing okay council member items and Report Scott I have nothing Karen so I want to bring up one bring this up one more time um the majority of our afternoon was spent on traffic and parking and that type of thing and I've had a few more conversations um with Commissioners about putting tolls on our bridges to cut through or stop the cut through I've had these conversations with Our Town manager with Frankie um I would like to get it on an M&P agenda so that we could really look into this my understanding is that our uh North Bridge is County but the South Bridge is State um and I'm sorry just the opposite the South Bridge is is County the North Bridge Is state so we'd have to get fot involved in this at some point too but I just really really want to have this conversation because if we're looking at like impactful alternatives to our traffic and what we could do about it I think this is one that we could should really look at seriously so I just want to know if anybody else is in that same thought process as I am and we could bring it up at M&P and discuss it I'm willing to have the discussion that's two all you need okay unless there's somebody else wants to make a all right that it yes that's it may I ask is it too late to add for Thursday it is isn't it so it would be August yeah it be yeah that I don't know you're going to get a lot of data generated between now and Thursday no perfect great thank you and if you can just to add on to in that MMP can we get some information other than just having a discussion of what we whether we want to do it or not do it or support it or not like how it works everywhere else and okay Vice may I have nothing additional thank you right councelor King I'm good thank you all right well I'll bring it up this is just the only thing I've got is what was discussed at the beginning as I said when they were here presenting about the workforce housing time is obviously of the E Essence for this funding and and as you heard it's either a do or die and if there's a willingness to move forward great if there's not that's fine too but I think we need to make the decision if if we want to pursue this or not pursue it and it could be the end of the conversation or could it be the start of the conversation so I'll just guess go down and ask John where you're at on I guess I don't feel like I have enough yet to make a decision honestly one way or the other you know I guess I don't have enough to make a pro decision I can sit back and say no but I I don't want to go there if I can have uh I guess I the the time constraint really bothers me yeah me me as and I didn't know there was a time constraint when it it kind of came up just don't want to rush into a wrong decision sure sure and that's that was why I was asking the question about contingencies if there's a can of be contingent on funding and if funding doesn't happen then but it seems well let I'd hate to miss it if it's a if it's a great opportunity too though but Jim I felt like because of the weight of the agenda today uh I I I I have probably 50 more questions I'd like to ask and I I wanted to be respectful of our time today so I I I'm in the same camp I just I don't have enough information okay Karen I think the most impactful thing for me is that is such Prime Prime real estate um to lease it for $10 a year makes absolutely no sense to me um we talk about the shortages and the millage rate what if we sold the property or I mean I think there's so many other considerations for that property and to make a decision on it in the next week or so it just doesn't seem right for me okay I think timing is everything and and it's just it's just too much too quick without public input without uh I just don't I just feel there's too much pressure and not enough information to make a a a good decision for everyone yeah I I I agree and you know when I started down this road of talking to him with it it didn't know I thought we would have plenty of time to talk about it and maybe what he said there could be some funding that's held back that we can I guess I I would be at least in favor of trying to get more information and figure it out and if there's more funding in the next round or the next bucket great then we'll have the conversation but I don't feel comfortable moving forward that fast without all the information and not knowing are we going to get these Appropriations or not I mean that plays a big key in a big key in what we have to do as well so right now we're not tied to anything so I'd least like to keep the uh the option open to discuss and see if there's um there's another deadline that comes up for another bucket of money and um if you guys can keep an eye on it let us know so we don't have to try to make a decision but I thought it was very informational to to understand how it worked because there was so much I didn't understand but uh with that then I'll leave you with the words of a great 80s philosopher everybody have fun tonight Everybody Wang Chong tonight with that I'll mve to a journ I was close motion by I'll second that motion by coun King second inv by councelor Hafford any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I and we are