get to it then because we do have quite a few reviews tonight um so in accordance with the open public meeting act 1975 this meeting has been noticed that I thereby call the regularly scheduled Franklin Township historic preservation advisory commission meeting for March to order uh we'll start with the roll we'll just go in order around the table starting with Mr Bob mccort here Mr Bill Bert's in a weird spot yeah I feel very unplaced Mr Glen Partland here I did uh Andrew beine present David we we J johnon Pat schala Anthony ganam car and we do have a quorum with our staff person Vince Dominic present um so we have a few review actions the first one is is for 35 Franklin Street this is a fence replacement are you here yes you're first come on down yeah switch over that way thanks have a seat we try and be some even though we hide the place did you hook in the electric plug in that chair that's terrible uh just just for the record since it is a technical public here what's your name please Jonathan delos and you're the property owner yes thank you can you tell us about your project um so I have it's an L-shaped property um The Back Fence the the back of the property is does not have a fence there and I was hoping to finish it with a standard 6ot stock Aid fence um I have a dog uh two kids now what kind a dog um it's a very important a little Chihuahua mix okay yeah so um so you don't need a six foot fence you need like a 6 in fence she actually could jump pretty high so uh yeah it would just be nice to be able to you know just let her out in the back but we've always uh spoke about trying to get a pool or something also I know that you're supposed to have um and have your pool enclosed uh somehow so okay um it was that and also I didn't know um that I was hoping to get a storm door on the front I didn't know if I was supposed to file for another permit on that oh okay so that's separate okay so we'll just talk about the fence then I guess we talk about the door afterward and see what you want to do maybe we could make it easy okay so uh you did submit a uh Property Service Sur with the approximate fence so we know what the property is and you're saying the the you're replacing an existing fence um so the left side and the right side those fences are fine um it's the one in the back that's kind of uh so just the back property correct that one's kind of um so the the it's weird because it has a partial fence which is about a quarter um so if you're looking at the back it's a on the right side there's about a quarter of the of the length um it has some fence there which is all falling apart already and then along the right side there is a fence there as well but that one also is kind of falling apart so I was yes so this one this one's empty okay so that's going to be new fencing here new fencing right to here to here okay oh just up to here yeah I mean this has a fence and this has a fence but again those two are kind of falling apart M okay so you're just adding this section on is this going to be the same fence as have these I would just hopefully I would just uh if I was approved I would just replace all of this just cuz then it would look uniform yeah you're looking you're looking to get put new fencing here correct okay yes and then I see some highlights are you doing anything yes so that we could enclose in the property also on the front and what kind of fence is existing this one is a wooden Stockade Fence okay this side is a vinyl fence actually okay but all stock eight all six foot yes and this will come across somewhere somewhere in the house here correct okay and then any Gates there or yes Gates on both sides okay preferably I'm assuming that's going to face outward to the yes yeah the nice side out yes so the the fence on the one side is your neighbor's fence uh yes the fence on the other side is your neighbor's fence as well correct yeah and you're just closing in the back and the side um yeah uh so um on the back I'm cheating I'm looking at Google okay so on the survey it's showing that the fence on the left side is on right so it's uh also um I know the Google Maps here um on here it would be this whole back section and this this SE cuz you wrap around yeah correct correct okay where did that vinyl fence come from is that a vinyl fence on your neighbor property I don't remember over seeeing that um okay and you just you're you're proposing a wood picket uh Stockade Pence yeah 6t tall yes are you going to paint it or you going to leave it wood or you going to stain it uh I was hoping to stain it uh I just didn't know if um you know if I was allowed to or not but I know that the the regular fence that there's now um are end all gray and everything like that so it's not very so the the fence that's on the left side on this map is it the same type of fence that even though it's so it's the thing and the right is vyl so yeah you're the the back property do they is there a house in the back there yeah yes do they have fencing anywhere um okay keep it cohesive if you're jumping from one to another another and you're not planning on any Gates or closing the front just the front yes yes so you playing uh yes yes so if the soccer ball goes over you're going to have to walk all have G on both sides and it's going to be back this far it's not going to come to the front of the house right no no no no uh yeah it will just be all the way back there are you aligning it with the fence on this side and the fence on this side or you just uh fence on the left side on the right side so it's going to come here yes on the right side you want to do something like that yes yeah yeah the right side show back here are you going to do this um comes up a little bit it does further fur yeah against whose house it's going to come up next to this do they have a window here or something no looks like your neighboring house is pretty much right on the property line it looks like it is correct so there's window or doorway that it'll be struck in or no no there not in that section and your your the fence in the front is going to be the Stockade style fence and the gate will be made out of The Stockade if few days correct okay will the fence fall before or after from this from this picture it's it's more uh so you have the air conditioning and the windows it's it's past it's yeah it's pass that closer to where that fence correct yeah it's like maybe a half a foot to maybe a foot from that fence that way [Music] fence neighbor looks like it has some drainage there uh yes okay but that's uh that that would be past the fence okay any other questions or comments your utilities are on would be on this side the fence I correct yeah yeah they're totally accessible there an air handler there condenser condenser sitting there yeah correct there's that there that'll be on the front side of that fence or the back side uh front side yeah the the fence will be way uh it'll probably be uh another 15 ft pass it anybody have any questions or comments before we open it to the public my only question would be the The Neighbors transort that's not really part of this okay anything else seeing no more questions or comments from the board is anybody from the public have any questions or comments on this application seeing no public come forward does anybody want to make a motion on this application I will and that motion is I applied for then we can talk about the door if you want does anybody want to second that so we have a first and we have a second L okay that motion carries so what do you want to do with your screen door what do you got in mind um I know uh well my my front door is super drafty and everything like that but I know uh my wife has has been talking about trying to just keep the standard wooden door open um just so you know to let some light in and everything like that plus a storm door might help with drafts coming in and everything like that um so I mean I just didn't know what my options were for doors I have you know um so you want to do a full glass paddle like full glass so that you could still see the door cuz we love you know like the color of door I need to clean it up but yeah we like the we like seeing the front door and everything anybody want to look at this we can pass it around so it's just a straightforward aluminum door with uh looks like two glass panels that open yeah the top half would open so that it would be uh a screen to let some fresh air and it's going to be U White Aluminum yes the rest of the house is white so we just assume white would match with it and it looks like it's a low profile so yeah we'll pass it around with I don't have a I don't have a problem talking about this with a lock on it it's a good thing you brought your print down huh I mean yeah I didn't I didn't know what the bring so I mean I was hoping that was enough so I know we already voted on that other the original application but we could amend it at this point I would say we could amend that previous approval to include the the screen storm door as submitted does anybody have any question okay so we have a we have a motion um to amend well if if we're actually going to amend it then he has to agree to amend it so I'm going to make a motion to amend and then Bob has to make the amendment I will make the amendment and uh no problem with the um door okay you could see the doors and then Weaver will have to second that I second that and then all in favor I and he opposed there there we go Robert's Rules baby thank you so you're good to go thank you that's it that's it it thank you have a good night good night Vince will forward your information so you get a permit I don't do do I have we don't have the door I have the fence correct so you want me to uh I I'll approve the fence tomorrow okay so you can you can install that whenever you want the door you'll need a building you need a well actually you don't need a building doesn't need it you can just do that too you don't need a building permit for CU it's not sound okay you're all said thank thank you thank you our next application this evening is uh 33 South Middle Bush Road this is just a Paving an existing driveway littleit addition to it and your name please Trevor petrock and you're the property owner yes great C Bill what you're doing uh I'm looking to extend the driveway 20x 20 section okay for two additional parking spots so on the drawing that you submitted you approximately showed where it's going to be exactly yeah right there yep and this is existing Stone um ask uh so it's a stone from the road all the way up to the the proposed section okay right up one more up to that one and then that it's concrete from there up to the garage and you want to do all of this in Asphalt correct to the apron right to the apron correct that's conf any questions this one is as straightforward as we get um any comments I'll give you 30 seconds to digest shortest 30 seconds in history since there's no questions or comments from the board does anybody have any questions or comments from the public seeing no public come forward does anybody want to make a motion on this application a motion to approve we have a motion no Glen decides who says it we have a motion parland and we have a second second have a second report uh all in favor I any opposed thanks that was an easy one okay thank you very much that was the quickest one yeah okay what do we have next 26 Elm Street this is replacement windows do we have a property owner or a representative representative representative and your name for the record please my name is Robert harro I'm from Home Depot Robert harro right I'm a principal design consultant the owner could not make it but we're the ones that he's contracted didn't stall the window Windows okay so why don't you uh you're not going to know much about the uh property but you can tell us what the project is well you can see you have you have pictures of everything so on the exterior it's going to match the colors no change there the entire first floor it has existing vinyl windows that were there before the owner bought the home the owner's owned the home about two years now so whatever was there has been early there before he even got to the product to the home uh so there's one kitchen window that they want to replace we're going to put in Anderson 100 it's actually better than vinyl tomato fibrex which is 40% wood 60% vinyl composite that's on the first floor and on the second floor the master bedroom you want to replace two older Anderson windows with two current Anderson 400 windows again on the outside the colors are going to look the same okay so we're just asking that you allow this to happen because his windows are old and they're leaking and wants them to be energy efficient just uh In fairness uh Vince and I had reviewed this application together before uh they came to see if it's something that we wanted to see in front of the full board uh I said because it's window replacements we do want to see that I will tell you that they are replacements for Replacements so I don't really see much of a problem with this but to be consistent they had to come so so um I think this is another relatively easy application but I wanted the board we have an opportunity to chime in so any questions or comments this is pretty sure there are Replacements there nothing any other questions comments or just with the applicant is not the owner or the Builder is that just Home Depot corporate there just Scot do I work for Home Depot so I work for the company on the word so that's uh that's just a corporate yeah so that's from our Atlanta Main Headquarters but I'm local here in New Jersey brought my business cards if you want he put in the would it be his name on the application or doesn't doesn't matter doesn't doesn't matter we're we're just approving it we honestly don't care who the applicant unlike a planning or zoning board where there's BL alls We Care is someone comes and can explain the application question yeah and and that way we you know if we go out there and they not Anderson you know 400 series Windows the homeowners on the book they fix it yeah no I was just really questioning the Atlanta address that's it's a basic install for us it's nothing unusual gotcha um so no further questions or comments no there's nobody left in the uh in the audience you don't have any questions right you're good anybody want to make a motion on this application that's not Bob the court I'll make a motion I second oh we got Anthony Anthony got it uh Anthony what's your motion I make a motion that we approve the windows to be installed okay do we have a second I second we have a second Carla all in favor am I allowed to there's a lot to unpack there uh all in favor any opposed that was also straightforward so uh you um you're the homeowner will be able to get the they don't even need permit right because it's window there's we're not changing sizes or anything there's no permit needed for that all right window cool thank you okay so just so I understand how do I get a copy of the approval or you you can just you I can give it to you I can email you something but you're good to go can I give you my business card right there what is your name pleas Vince Vince yeah last name Dominic I think I aren't you the one who emailed me this to begin with OR they send no that was uh another person that was eletta drone from our our I'll email you there several Home Depot officers involved in this all right if you could send it directly to me that would be great perect super thank you your small mom and pop Home Depot shop okay thank you everyone uh do we have 12 of Colt Street yeah come on down you're the next contestant on The Shed is right is 23 wart they're the ones beging me to get on how you doing my name Isles you're property owner yeah I've been the owner for 40 years thank two months you guys thank needed they needed the next one sorry so tell us a little bit about your uh your application okay what are you looking to do uh put a small shed on the property get some extra storage and uh I'm working with u the shed place out on rout 22 Golden Oaks okay and it's going to be what you have back here this New England Style with the Dormer that's what I they offer so many of them that uh they had a gamble structure but it just didn't have the skirts and I thought this was the closest to complimenting the existing structures with the shed Dormer and you have the uh that they uh they offer a color that is very close to the color on the house and uh they offer a selection of uh architectural shingles with uh I think the one they call Gray is looks like a dead match for what's on the house I've uh I've lived right off on buffer for the past 14 years I've always been envious of your garage that that was a a historic project I I like that the RO you mean with the gamb yeah great now you got the solar on the back right yeah you don't see any solar from the street the uh Gamel structure I was a copy of a barn that was uh down toward uh oh going down toward the Delaware River okay I actually sat down with the owner and took the dimensions and everything to get the uh that's cool he knew all the dimensions by heart he didn't have to measure a thing no he was a contractor who had done Gamel structures in the area oh jeez and I'm sorry no you're good uh I I like actually when we digress you get a little history um I I see on your drawing you're doing 5T setbacks off the property line typical those are what the zoning and that's what's required by zoning so V good with zoning yes I assumed as much I Mark that as typical two places and so so you're going to go to the New England transend door what just an idea of colors you said you're going to match to the best there's a in in the brochure there is a a blue that is very close to the color on the house is uh and this is this is going to be just delivered and it's going to sit on a gravel pad there's no concrete no 4 like a crust Stone the 4 in is a crust Stone and that's what the uh the shed place recommended because of the weight of the shed the smaller ones they put on concrete pads this one is a little bit bigger and just consider for yourself putting chicken wire or welded wire mesh on top of the gravel before they placed a shed cuz it helps stop with Critters Critters like get underneath and dig and if you put a barrier down they can't dig through I'll ask about that um I don't have any questions anybody else I just want to make sure the long Edge is facing the street yes it's uh that was done to scale I had to adjust the scale because that's a zerx of the survey and Xerox moves things around a little bit anybody have any questions or comments no electric or anything to that no on Andrew you got any any comments on this see all that's left in the audience so I'd also just say we don't usually we don't app Pine on color but trying to match it just be careful maybe get a sample from them to look at it might could you try and do it and it doesn't work I don't know what colors you have going but it could be just well they also offer an option where they will finish it in the paint and color yeah you can they do Benjamin more right and the house is in Benjamin Mo it's Williams blue if it's been sitting been fading for a while Blues 10 and reds and yeah yeah yeah but this twoo will fade kind of like you kind of like you walked right into you walked into wow she's I've always tried to do projects on the house that are in keeping with the way the house was can see including duplicating molding cool really I think it's I think it's pretty good anybody no more questions comments right and and there is no public left he's going after so um uh with that does anybody want to make a motion yeah I'll make a motion I see no problem with this to go ahead with the uh the shed install at 12 w on street so we have a motion uh do we have a second I'll second that do we have a second can you put something in there about just a little reminder about the great you know the wire onp Critters it's just a it's a it's a suggestion you will have groundhogs going over there yeah I don't know exactly how they situate the stone but uh I will make sure that they consider any Critter Invasion I know the shed in back of us uh has had a groundhog for a long time M well motion carries right all in favor yeah any opposed so thank you for coming thank you so much Andrew I have no idea where the last one is he practically begged me begged me to come tonight so that he because roof is having a problem and I got I emailed him can we just look I mean you're you can probably take this offline if we can come to some kind of consensus because we're not going to meet next month right no we could do that if if if it's straightforward then so um if if that's your bail we could do that but given the property that it is I'm a little concerned about doing that but but you know because we've had this property come in uh several times for several different projects um you know it's the old two two room uh schoolhouse sir yeah and that my my concern was that he called up and said I can do it because I got approval and I'm saying you came like 3 years ago for conceptual there was no approval on anything even if there wasn't approval it's expired and the the only problem is I don't know specifically what the existing roof is yeah I would say if you're going to do anything at all Andrew you'd want to have a subcommittee if we didn't want to make them this sure as heck not going to hear this next month before 11 think was you'd want to I think you'd want to go out and visually inspect it yeah before you you know with them yeah before you do anything if you wanted to do that yeah I would this is the school right there I know the property but I don't know um Barbara knows this building inside and out Barbara she ran her uh daycare out of this building for a number of years uh besides the roof they doing anything else they they they want to do other work but they wanted to they were adamant they had to get it because there they're afraid the roof's going to collapse they wanted to come tonight and I said well give me the the roof because I can't get stuff for the rest of the house 2 days before that's not fair to the commissioner I'm actually to be honest I'm really disappointed that they've let this rot I and I know we don't have any recourse other than to watch it R and it's just a shame um if we were to form a subcommittee which I don't think is a terrible idea um I think that it would be limited to roof only um Y what what's your thoughts since you brought that up is this what building is this is not residential it's the old school it's an old school two two classroom School building East Millstone that residential is that commercial it is currently Zone it's r10 yeah it's resal but it's not residents it would still be a change of use for the building with with whatever they do why would the fire marshal be giving residential I don't that fire Marsh doesn't want this firef standing on a rickety roof it's going I'm just saying yeah I me doesn't matter that really doesn't matter for for us um expens what is everybody's thought on a sub choose others to go out and I'll do that so you so you're for a sube for yes and I'll be there don't they to show us some materials good idea considering our nextal I don't know what this is well yeah got me out there with samples yeah I mean that that would be yeah you have to meet yeah they meet with samples they the committee so let's do it this way I I don't want to form a subcommittee for this specific property CU I don't want to set precedent but we could set a um a subcommittee for emergent applications until the next meeting um and I would qualify this as an emergent application only because uh the building is at risk of of more and more damage so so maybe we hand hand it that way so that it's not property specific or because it has a safety violation on it that would be the emerging Factor um is everybody kind of cool with that I just don't want to set a precedent and say well this specific property gets our attention yeah yeah all right so um I guess we have to do a motion and a second to form the subcommittee well you you don't you could just appoint it all right you you as chair have the right to appoint any subcommittee you want I'm the bys it is oh yeah he that's I can do whatever I want Bill basic basically yeah um who who wants to be on the subcommittee anybody I would I could take up to four members total because we can't constitute a quorum I I would like to okay Carla I Dominic I'm available Jess and I guess myself cuz I never have a choice I'll be an alternate if someone can't do that all right awesome awesome so subcommittee of uh Carla uh Dominic Jess and myself will um deal with emergent matters over the next month and and I will email this guy tonight cuz I just emailed him now saying no one showed up and I email them and say subcommittee was appointed and I'm going to I'll copy you on it and tell them okay and and our our charge will be limited to uh only things that are in preservation of the building of of an emergent matter so so like a roof but you know we won't opine on any of the design details for for what the interior will be cool um so that closes our formal applications and now we have a subcommittee form for that um which is actually kind of good because we talked about forming a subcommittee to every meeting for emergent and min applications anyway so here's our test case um and what we'll do is we'll report back next meeting and of the findings out if any all right so public discussion I need public discussion nobody from the public is coming forward I would point out there is one public person left scared the rest of them uh incoming correspondents uh I want to make everybody aware that Vince and I had a conversation and a meeting with the property owners at uh 4597 Route 27 which is the house between the Charlie Browns and the post office building yes they had submitted uh an application for a permit to basically uh alter the entire building under the ruse of it being listed as an interior renovation um and pish so the dog groomer pet groom yeah it used to be the groomer and they um they they emailed Vince kind of like in an emergency oh we found that the framing is messed up and we need we need to just demolish the building can we do that so that opened the C of worms I want to stress that they did not have final building permit yet so nothing was in motion and they were actually kind of working without a permit but that's that's an aside um they came to us and Vince and I had a conversation and we looked at what they were claiming was their emergent uh reason for this and it was that it's a balloon framed house and their their quote unquote uh architect or engineer said well this will never meet modern codes we need to just tear it down which we all know is not correct there's ways to mitigate balloon framing and the inherent fire risks so we basically uh very quickly said I S the to Vince that me email this must come before the commission because and it is subject to all of the requirements of Demolition and the response was well you know we're doing an interior renovation and with that I got to see the drawings and I'm looking at the drawings I'm like Vince they are altering the entire building so they were trying to take the roof off they were taking the siding off they were putting stucco finish all over they were turning it into a shoe box retail building for cannabis for cannabis another one another one um there's 21 applications in 10 I believe so that's three in Kingston it's the happiest place on Earth stretch the I guess is doing well so so after reviewing this I called Vince I said they must be using their own product because this doesn't pass any of the the sniff tests paron upon pun um so you know we we had a quick Zoom meeting which um real quick meeting which which I was 15 minutes late cuz I had another conference but basically we told you can't do anything without to the building without approvals um and they're they're in a hard hurry to get their product to Market so they're saying well we won't do anything that impacts the exterior of the street corn like everybody else does the problem is is that to do nothing besides the Interiors are completely redesigned so it's going to take them forever because you would and the email I sent that jman asked me to send was to tell them before we even met with them that it's obvious you didn't know this is an historic district and they admitted they didn't and then and then when we we were Point Blank and said this will never get approved it has 0% chance it is completely and totally inappropriate it it couldn't have been more inappro it it was that bad so they got that message and they're going to they'll come back to whatever they're going to come back with I don't redesign I'm not sure that that they leave even come back because I'm not sure that they can do what they need to do from the way that building needs to flow for the the state approval it has to have certain flow I'm not sure they can do it without making major changes they were either really good at playing dumb or really didn't understand what they bought and did not do any due diligence into what they bought yeah see I think they're using that uh for the construction that they can't do the construction right and sound with a balloon frame because as you know and the architect should know you're like you said you're acting dumb that the layout of the downstairs is the same layout as is upstairs typically right they use ribb inside to hold the joyes up mhm right and the walls are like a chimney flu from the basement right up to the attic so therefore the only place they're able to remodel is upstairs and there's a lot of Shoring that has to be done so either they didn't know or they're acting dump the other thing of that building that building isn't I mean is historic but it wouldn't be in the time frame of balloon framing it is actually they buil balloon frame buil but I think I think I think they said the 1860s I don't think so but I I don't know I think it's more 1890s that frames were only built in a short period I know that's what I'm saying I don't think there's late 1800s and early 19 very short period it was ear frame really it doesn't matter but the idea they're acting yeah cuz any architect knows about frame and and their plans were completely disingenuous so we may or may not see this so we may or not see it yeah yeah the the front page said interior Renovations and then they had a little thing saying expl explanation on the first set just set interior and there was nothing left of the exterior it was completely renovated the roof it was ridiculous that the architect would put that on a front set of so they knew it was in historic district and that's why they said I don't I don't think they did I don't think they did I think he was just stupid the meeting we were at they were like like oh what are we going to do and and they were all and I I didn't send that email till like an hour before the meeting it's not like we gave them three days to figure it out they were really like oh there was no argument in their nature was like ear and a headlights like oh yeah wasn't it the same group that came in a couple of months ago with signage no store yeah I have a question about J because remember he said it was wired up and the light was on light M well it's spliced with electrical tape on the outside of the building is it really yes and it's bare wire what what is this where jaro remember he's having that sign done and he said the light was already installed I don't know that it was because there's now wires spliced to that light which side is this the one all the way up at the Gable end that they just asked for and you can see the black electric light just on the of the house like hanging all over it's not safe well I send my that's it can't be that way from the electric obviously so I just want to report back on that as a as a correspondence item because um uh cuz that happened um Bob open space anything going on yeah there's a couple things um I'm going to put you on the hot seat I'm put you on the hot seat let's see what you tell us okay you're talking about the done proper talkinging about the done you are talking about am yeah so uh there's going to be uh two different uh hearings here uh there was a notice sign on the corner of uh Claremont Butler and South Middle Bush I saw that couldn't read it but yeah oh yeah he can't read it uh the first one I is April 3rd that's what my notes have where's the hearing going to be here there what what day Theon application April 3rd sorry April 3rd that's the first hearing of the diversion let's wait a minute what day of the week is that oh I don't that's because there every day whatever it is it's I have April 3rd and that's April 3rd is a Wednesday can't there's oh well Bob if it's if it's April 3rd it's a Wednesday that's you can't be there that's the planning that's the planning board plan board meeting is you can't be at the open space that night can't be at two places at once yeah but I'm saying normally that the planning board would have been here but we're moving that right to consolat so you can that's I was just concerned that April 3rd because Monday Tuesday and Thursday we have meetings in that room normally would be the Wednesday so so there's going to be two scheduled hearings one's on April 3rd and the other is I don't know when the other one is and and can you tell us uh in excruciating detail what the purpose of the hearing is so what the township basically wants to do is take that private not make it private be able to get reimbursed uh for the property sell it but keep it as uh Farm preservation so when you do that because it was purchased with a Green Acres funds you have to divert I forget what the acreage whatever is 3 3 to1 4 to1 5 it's whatever they change depending on the value so who do they sell it to somebody who wants to buy it somebody who wants to buy it but it stays you can't knock it down or you can't do anything like that it would be reserved so when when was it decided to do this this has been going on for almost four years and um and was it did it come out of open space to do these hearings open space and green anchor the township open the township owns the property and they want to sell it into private hands to somebody that's going to farm it it's not really that much as it's going to be farmed because there's really only one road that comes in there how many acres are there is it it's it's basically so that would be the house all around here is farm so and there's a road that comes in this way that that Road's an easement yeah that's an easement and so it's only maybe about 2 and2 Acres I believe does it go up to the farm pond the Farm Pond the pond is that included in that's included in it yeah cuz the top doesn't want that liability no and they're buying it for the house essentially have you ever been in has anybody been in that house I've been to the house I've never been in the house where is it located exactly so when you're going down South Middle Bush okay you know where the van l s sudam house is yeah yeah yeah you know how that's way in the back you there's another big white farmhouse to the left of it that's the neus dun house that's the house we're talking about the house is absolutely beautiful on the inside you think want somebody to farm it isn't well it's not really consider six acres you don't have enough to farm you have to have six acres to get Farm packs that's all around it is all open space it's just and and what the what is the goal of the hearings to get public input on by to get the the device to divested and just basically move it all it's costing a lot of money the other meeting date is because how uh are they going to receive bids for purchase does that does that work out everything will be so there's going to be public bidding periods so I have another question is this going to be a tendency now that they want to sell off no that's that's the only one right now I mean you have that one you we are trying to do something with the one on Hamilton Street um what's that tulip tulipwood oh really what's that to sell that you that's going to be a little more difficult to sell that because that was purchased with different funds some some um uh open space funds but also some State funds so that's a little different what they were trying to do with that was to to make it more of a residence or a uh part of ruter but all that fell through yeah I know that so with the dunh housee what is the intent with the proceeds of the sale that would go back to open space we just go to open space now I I assume it's going to have a historic easement on the outside of the house so that anything would have to be done in accord now what about the interior of the house do whatever you want the interior let me tell you I actually don't agree with that I'm I'm I'm actually that's that's actually important because typically when you sell or divert the exterior and interior are included in that that because I I actually kind of hard to do it's all plastered I I actually really strongly believe we need consult the state historic preservation office has been involved and I think that we should be involved in these conversations so um if if the state historic preservation office is involved I I know that they typically don't like the idea of townships holding easements over properties like this because um everything becomes political right it can be changed with political wind so if we're if the township really wants to divest what we know to be a historic property we should really be cognizant of how that property will be protected I would suggest that you go to the April 3D the Andrew the way the way that it's done and the way that we did it with what's this the the one that was the spa remember we gave them that they there was a historic easement and the easement was it it requires them to do everything in accordance and even in the interior now they were allowed to do regular sheetrock and everything else but they had they weren't allowed to remove any of the interior wood or anything so that's what I mean by an easement I don't mean by and that's that's a permanent restriction on the property it's a de Covenant right yeah yeah it's it's filed with the county that's typically what happens with that's what we did with that building so I would assume we'd be doing the same thing and those changes would revert back to the state not here because I don't we don't have any ordinances on interior no we we if have an in we're covered by the ordinance cuz that's the that's the next question is that then then that property would become the purview of this board even though it's not in a historic district so part of the easement and and Covenant on it is that it's a reviewable property so we got to make sure all that kind of stuff's included what condition is the property currently in good shape or is it the property is in good shape because we're paying for the heating of the oil and everything think of that to keep cuz it's all plaster and wood but it's funny um is it occupied or just no no no it's not has been occupied since Mrs Dunn passed away and wi it to us maybe 15 20 years ago but it's funny because instead of wiring it's all extension cords extension courts everywhere oh my God yeah St you know the woodwork is beautiful and if you ever been in tulip wood tulip wood the woodwork in the Tulip wood in tulip wood is absolutely spectacular the township replaced the roof onone about what six seven years ago we put a new slate roof came out of open space so it's got a new slate roof got yes there's another there's another piece of property there but that was way gone and I forget the name of that one another house okay so the that's so that's that you have any more questions on that um you I think it's going to require some homework to be honest and I I'm going to have to I'm find out when the other hearing is because I when was this scheduled because if we didn't decide until a week ago that that there was not going to be a planning board meeting in there so I don't know how they would have scheduled this anything more than they would not have been able to have it because we have a plan till the week ago when we changed it there was a planning board meeting in there all I have is I wrote down April 3rd so I'm saying that April 3rd is is I'm going to find out from Bob Vince can you circulate um can you actually circulate the hearing notice can we get copy of the hearing notice sent to everybody here it's not on the website I looked on the website it's not even on the website go right down the street it's on there you can't it's a who's holding the meeting you know who's holding the meeting it I think I I think the township is here you can't read the notice of it on CL you can't read the notice it's too small it's a big sign it's it's a sign it's almost as big as the wall but teeny tiny letters you can't you can't pull over you have to pull over and stand in front of it to read that's their notice you got kidding that's unbelievable I'm sending myself an email so I go in tomorrow and figure it out there's a lot of um public commentary too I've seen it come up and some social forums let just small about the sign and then about the you I don't have any control sale of the property and just repair for home so I think the public has I I'll find out Andrew and make sure whatever let that I give it to everybody and find out what the dates are too I don't know how someone scheduled that unless it was scheduled after we how long has the sign been up two has it been that long almost two weeks yeah where is it right go down South M Bush Claremont um it's right there right on our open space right across the street from the um the decrepit building the little general store and layers is not historic the house that's falling down is I think ever took that piano out of there so so then okay all right uh the other thing is The Meadows Foundation came and they needed money to pay for right utilities H utilities and all that stuff there's certain things that open space could pay for and there are certain things that open space could not pay for so um we pay for whatever I mean their attorney fees and their um uh salaries and stuff like that doesn't that does not come out of open space but utilities and because really the township owns those properties not Meadows right um trail maps are nice yeah and then that's basically about it okay so so Bob I I'd like uh I'd like a little bit of a more thorough job keeping us informed about things like the dun cuz I was I was quite taken back when I saw all the chatter about it so I know it's been Ono conversation for a long time but we didn't have that much of a discussion about it just that the notice was going up but you're you're we'll do that um and uh so good Medi let me just look at now there nothing all right good um so move moving on we have unfinished business uh these let me can I interrupt please so a little bit of diversion here okay submitted updated signage and notice text to the Jersey D Green Acres for approval sent signed specifications to D for printing and insallation this was all in January sent newspaper text with scheduling requirements to Kirk clerk for publishing that's I guess adory could get us the copy I'm I got to look on the board it should be on the board right out front okay all right excellent um are we good Bob you're good good yeah all right so unfinished business from the West is a couple of the initiatives I'm trying to start up which is the uh bylaws update ordinance update and um having a review action for um the the the last one the re action form is squarely on me but um I just want to see if anybody's reviewed the bylaws I know Jess you sent me a comment um if there's any questions or comments uh what I'd like to do is by the next meeting receive any questions and comments you have so we can start actually making divisions I had a question about that I I did look at them I mean what what are the the problems I mean the two versions you gave us are very very different yeah right so part of the problem well which which one is the one that's in effect now so the currently adopted one is the short one and the short one in my opinion is inadequate in what ways it's very basic it's very um it's very lawyer legal ease in my opinion correct true the no no one has no one no board has that short and they just they don't and the the longer version while it's more word heavy is more descriptive of the way we should be conducting business and and when the short form was proposed it was uh more of a well you know there it's all legal language but it leaves it vague enough so we could do more or less what we want and I don't think I agree with that that's why I circulated both versions and said you know well I think in the in the longer version there are several areas that are are clearly not necessary okay but I'm not clear on what what's missing from the short version I mean what what what powers or what guidelines are missing like I mean in in the long version it says things why you can cancel meeting well I don't think that needs to be in the bylaws I mean if if if the Township's closed it's closed I I think the problem is is that um the bylaws picks up on items that are not explicitly picked up in the ordinance okay that's why I think the longer form picks up on things that the ordinance doesn't cover and how we operate and that's just that's just my reading on it and I think that by having the short form um it leaves some things a little more vague that is like kind of at our wiim and and I think the longer form I I get your point I do um I just think that we need to look at the ordinance and the bylaws in Tandem and see how they can complement each other yeah well I think that I agree I would agree with that and I'm not sure I am knowledgeable enough to comment on the ordinances I mean that that's law and get reading well I I did look but um Andrew C could I make a suggestion can I take a look at the the the longer version and send some comments uh to you because I've written 50 bylaws for and and the the the longer version is much closer to what a typical typical I wasn't pleased when we went from that but that was there was the whole reason and it was just it doesn't matter and the board just said because we just didn't want to it went on for months and months and like a year and they were almost approv that of frustration yeah it was like okay it's it's enough so let me let me take a look I'll send you I'll take a look at the ordinance because I know how the it intertwines and your your point is well taken there may be some stuff in there that is superflous because it it's supposed to be processed it's not supposed to you know over agre a lot of bylaws too including some contentious ones and I don't know the township and and the township runs differently than does other things you know but it it seems like the long version as you said there there are things there that people put there just for silly reasons right no there could be some of that but I but I can I I do understand that you want um more specific guidelines in some areas you know and a good example is Jesse comment which you know we've talked about for years and years is we won't her comment was we won't we stop working at 11: no matter what and I think that that makes sense that you know we put in the bylaws that no matter will be heard after X amount of time and cuz it hasn't happened in a long time but there there's been a couple meetings we've been here to midnight um and and it's because we haven't had the mechanism to shut it down other than to say retired you can't shut down right you have to hear what's on the agenda well and I think that's that's how bylaws ought to be written is you you find the issues at hand I mean it's it's a governance document it's how how does this work and you decide how it works and then write the bylaws for the ideal yeah and and a lot of the things like defining the the duties of the chair in both documents you know that that's there it is yeah um and and and you're right there's overlap between the ordinance and the bylaws and and some places they conflict yeah and and that that was a lot of the argument about the short form from CU we had an attorney who sat with us and she was a retired attorney and she looked at everything as less is more yeah and and I I just think she took it too far with the less and I think there's a happy medium between the the older version which is the long version and the version so no this is a great conversation this is exactly what I was hoping for so that we could you know look at both documents and come to an agreement on what what is most appropriate okay that's great so no I think it's I think it's a very good point that you're bringing up so everybody else read it Jess gets credit Bill gets credit I only read the short one I I spent more time on the short one because it shorter yeah um so so I would like everybody uh to to keep looking at it for next meeting we're going to get Vincent's commentary as well in that time I'll do something way before that but but I think that these are two very important things that just need to be cleaned up that way I could retire and then it's going to be all your problem uh so um with that I don't I don't think I have anything else Carly you had a a new business question comment oh yeah so um I had uh I was following up on the van Dy van weo house in the state of affairs with that house cuz I was really concerned about it and um I actually had a tour of the house by the president of The Meadows foundation and I I got conflicting information that nothing was being done because it was a conflict between the township and with the New Jersey preservation office in Trenton they wanted to use different resources to do the work to fix up the house so I followed up with uh Vince today and maybe you could share with us what you shared with me well what we're in the process we we've hired an engineer to determine the size of the pumps that we have to have to when it does flood to remove the the water out of it so and and for the type of temporary flood control that you have to put around it that's the first stage we have hund and something thousand to do that that's being done right now because we can no longer get flood insurance because the only way to ensure the house would be the build it up to code which is counterintuitive because we can't because it's an historic structure so first we have to protect it then we have to move some of the utilities and we have another $300,000 to do work on the house after we get the flood control and we go so it's it's a it's a step process but work will be commencing relatively soon probably sometime this year once we get it idea of how big those pumps how long it takes to get them because we have to protect the house before we start doing work we don't want to do work and not have the ability to protect it so instead of buying pumps why don't we buy a bunch a whole bunch of foam archery targets so that the house can float up with the river and then float back down you know it it was brought up at one of the meetings that that house could be raised and um elevated not raised elevated yeah don't don't use raised as Z elevated and we were told no you can't do it but loses his historic designation but then but then Ed basnik found where it can so so so it's like so the Secretary of interior um as well as the state historic preservation office has been putting a lot of effort into talking about conservation and preservation of historic sites that are being subjected to climate change and one of the things that has become a Hot Topic is the constant flooding not just here no in a lot of places and there and and there has become a lot of relief for uh elevating the elevation of of structures um and it's a caseby case review and you have to go through it but um it it used to be that as soon as you move a building at all it loses its what's called integrity and integrity is is a reference to the the the structure's Integrity as a historic uh Monument or whatnot um so you know there there's been a lot of conversation and relief given for um raising the elevations of these properties so I I think it's there's a potential for if it was to be elevated a couple feet in the same exact spot there's an argument for that um you can't move it 2 feet and then 2et this way cuz then it's a different conversation we talked about that but then it was just said that they were going to kind of do that thing around it and then mitigate it cuz I know that there was mud that was in there and it's a wetland now it's developed into a wet land it used to be a long it's a wetland now it's it's it's it's there's there's a definition yeah don't don't call it a wetland because because just because it's wet there's a very legal definition of wetlands there has to be plant growth and everything that's aage problem it's wet but it's not a wetland that's what the president said I didn't say that that's what those are her words and how old is the house unfortunately but people when they use words I think it legal bring it back to the original height it's really sad because you know between the topography they're at the bottom of the hill so whenever it really rains think about the rain right it all you know accumulates there and then it's right on the canal so you've seen the canal lately how it floods so it's just a catastrophe location mov Rockingham four times right three four times still there still historic no problem was that's are we get we that there's one more point one more Point what you got Bob I I would like to maybe have one of our historic meetings in one of the our his I said that to you I don't think we could have our a meeting there but I think we should have tours well we had we had it the born last year cuz we have to be able to accommodate our audience and and um recording and stuff had I had we could have feet on my car I had an open space meeting at at the barn over here yeah that's a little bit different because we we record all these we don't have the ability to do that at another venue and we're considered a strong commission that makes it's it's it's very important that the meeting is recorded because like tonight you made four decisions that affected people yeah yeah you don't just make recommendations except for when they go to the board so the mayor's been very adamant that because of that we want to which is why we're in this room or in that room and we don't meet someplace else so that it can be recorded and people have the opportunity to to view it okay and people do I've heard people going back and listening to the meetings so so the the last point on new business and this also involves you Carla is that Carla met um uh somebody from the New Jersey historic sites uh Council I believe and it's a 250th anniversary of the state New Jersey coming up so there's going to be grant opportunities so um we need to take a look at that there's money they want to they're going to be giving out a lot of money um for the 250th anniversary so it would be great if we could if we could find out the parameters and then what think about what what would we like to do that would we could you know receive people and make money at the same time and what could we we can't we can't make money no and and it's and and and granting opportunities for this board are for um things like surveys um uh design guidelines um and stuff like that like a grant opportunity for Meadows would be to be able to renovate something they can receive people exact so we should just keep an eye on granting opportunities so so we're saying that we're going to start a committee to look into grant opportunities with the contact with maybe maybe not start a subcommittee yet but I think everybody should do some research into it and bring ideas back in the next meeting just because we've already formed two uh we already have ongoing projects I don't want to overburden everybody start doing my house but um but I think it's really good that everybody should be looking for for grant opportunities and there's things that we've missed with CLG just because we just we don't have the bandwidth what CLG uh certified local government okay um that's all I have for tonight anybody else have anything yeah what's happening at Marone nothing the um I saw a lot of construction going the Marone group illegally improperly without any permission whatsoever from the property owner which is the county nor any construction permits began work yeah I saw that they then came in for permits were denied to county is as of now is not giving them permission to do anything they were theyed they want to do there they're they're going to have to they're going to have to return it to the way it was that's between them and the county because they just went in and started doing work on a weekend without basically like me going over to your house and start digging up your lawn is what they did and I'm I'm that's I'm not exaggerating that's exactly what what was 10 what were they hoping to do they they wanted to put a a statue up they wanted to put some new electrical they wanted they put that ugly sign up on the corner yeah I saw it's I'm I'm telling you literally came in on a Friday and wanted us to give him a permit for property that wasn't theirs wow yeah all right and with that anything else I think we have a motion to adjourn I make a Motion sounds good M accepted let's get out of here