all right good evening everybody Welcome to the regular scheduled February meeting of the Franklin Township historic preservation advisory commission uh I hereby call this meeting to order in accordance with the open public meeting Act of 1975 this meeting has been appropriately noticed and is being recorded for rebroadcast on the Township's YouTube channel um with that I I will call the the role in the order of people sitting around the table and then we will move into uh the annual reorganization since we didn't have a January meeting so um let's just start with Carla since you're in front of me Carla Carla Vis Anthony gon present do s our staff person Vince Dominic Bob Lort never heard of him neither did I Nancy H is our alternate Mr Glenn mcparland here is no one yep uh Andrew Burian I am present Dr David Weaver pres I presume Dr Bill BS yeah I like giving titles it's nice uh so we do have a quorum for this evening uh let's just roll right into the reorganization um the uh positions available on an annual basis are chair Vice chair and secretary I nominate nope Andre buan is chair I seconded second all in favor where's the gav yeah really well since you such took such a sight of action Glen maybe you should be you how about Glen mcparland as Vice chair I'll second that y all in favor and um how about speak so going be AB a lot now and how about um how about the good doctor over here continues as secretary is that okay yeah good answer okay so we have your slate of elected officials me and uh Glenn and our good doctor over here as secretary with that we have the meeting um schedule for uh 2024 um that's been distributed you shall have it um we just have to do an official vote does anybody want to I have a question yeah there's no November meeting yeah because because of the league and the election and everything else if if for some reason that we have to absolutely have to do it we'd be in conflict and we I talked to the chair and we would like we've done before on a different day but there's no Tuesday in the month that works okay and what we'll do at the end of October setup a minor application subcommittee so if anything comes in we can help H happy homeowners Move Along thanks yep um with that does anybody want to make a motion to uh accept the calendar as present I'll make a motion to accept do I have a second second second Anthony thank you uh all in favor so you guys are are silly you should have said nobody agrees to it we would never have to meet again it's already it's already been advertised uh with that um we do have a couple um review actions on the agenda for tonight uh we have uh 3059 Rune 27 for two signs is that applicant here come on down hello how are you guys and uh your name for the record please uh my name is Dylan um presenting from I'm on behalf of Val signs company okay can you just spell your name please d i l l i n and last name r u i z yes and you're uh here on behalf of the owner of the property I assume or the the ten the company the sign company so you you're not going to know the history of this building um we have previously approved this building I don't know say about 5 years ago um with much uh back fourth to get it to where it is I don't know that they've had any tenants yet um so so this appears to be I think the first tenants signage that um it's going to be a restaurant so uh the building is much more contemporary it's it's in the um it's you know it's a long 27 so it's it's you know frankco Park is our most bastardized District especially since our partners across the uh across the road didn't for a district um so um that's the background on it so why don't you tell us little bit about your signs so we're proposing two set of Channel letters um the two set of Channel letters will be 31 in and 139 in white um white the letters are white no okay white the white or white sorry I Mard you and the total covering area for the signage will be 2998 okay for the F and we'll be dividing one set in the front and while send in the rear and the back so there one in the front by the highway and the other one will be in the back towards the parking lot say like that Vince does this meet all the requirements of the zon zoning ordinance so yes there's no variances not yep it's under the 30 30 and they get they get a front and back sign at two entrances and they're both the same side are you're just repeating the same side on the front and the back yes they're the same size of the two of them are you adding the lighting up top or is that there's no illumination on the two signs so there's no no elimination at the time not adding anything it looks like they're very got light on the top coming out from the building if I'm right yeah the building has lighting already like yeah it looks like there was already a sign put on the building for a dispensary that didn't come here [Music] V almost like the front um I mean it's straightforward enough I think it's the temporary building it's the temporary sign um you know if we were if we were bold enough to let this this uh building go through I don't see why we would reject the sign right yeah um I brought this sample just in case you guys want to look at it okay for the sign the color yeah the material that we're going to use and the color of the sign as well I don't know Co kind of [Music] metal only having to say I think so you fail the qu you did you did [Music] out um anybody have any additional questions uh for the application fourth pin today stop working um prior to a motion uh I'm going to open up to the public any last call for conversation anybody and the public have any questions or comments on this application good evening councilman Ron good evening uh seeing no public H for is there anybody want to make a motion on the application on the table I'll make a motion to approve as apply I'll second so we have a motion from the court to approve and we have a second from Glen all in favor I any opposed motion carries that was easy thank you thank you guys uh yeah let's just find out why there's a dispensary sign already on the I'm just going to tell him I I deal with the guy all the time I'm just going to tell him he's got to put an application in it's it's at a fairness in consistency the um anybody here from uh 4589 27 yes okay yeah yeah have a look down so I don't think you're the owner no not yet well I go by $ 45.91 so okay and um your name for the record Sir Simon Randall r a n e a l great and tell us about your project I think this was a carryover right yeah carried over so we don't have the fresh the documents in front of us so I've got four four copies photographs application great you guys can share sh over here yeah so take us through your your project here this is uh the formerly the Palace of Asia right yes formerly Good Time Charlie's formally Charlie Brown is formally that I don't know uh it was just a um repair of the roof job done about 18 months ago there was a chemical called a polyurethane sprayed on the uh surface of the roof um to prevent um leaking and um cracking so there it was sprayed on the flat portions of the roof right and then what about the slope portions of the roof where there shingles no no no shingles were changed no additions no demolitions nothing no repairs that backside was taken off I think that was recent uh and that was part of a permit there were shingles added recently this all this stuff that I'm here for is about 18 months ago so your application is just for the flat portion of the roof correct no one say that yeah yeah what about what about the portion that was replaced was that the the on the back side where the shingles were replaced was that done in your tenure or prior to you I know where it if it was it wasn't done through me time another place has there been a change in in ownership or anything in the past 18 24 months tency changed in the last 3 4 months I think but the ownership has been the same for a while okay yeah I don't think we have a issue with the p about that and I don't know we necessarily had an issue with the shingles other than they were done without approval yeah there's no photo of that se to correct it's on the other side of that entrance that faces Laurel La that was replaced the Shing which part was just the shingles were replaced yeah it's on the other side of that there's a large span that goes across faing Laur La that where they place the match was there what's there now or it's all H pod the whole building now I mean you can see patches in this picture here over here they just new shingles yeah it's a p gray now and then there's I think Brown on there there's dark there's all kinds of right it's not white anymore it's brown yeah the restaurant is what it is yeah I is it three tab on there now or the shingle that we put on right no no yeah I don't think it matters I'm just putting on that anything needs to come before us needs to example so Vince um the the question is that this was done applican here has no recollection that being done but we know it was done so come back to the picture of that section and just present it that's a yeah I would say so I mean from from that standpoint the well I I I would say if you don't have any issue with it I would say just give me some pictures and we'll put it in the file because there's no reason for him I no one has an issue with it no reason for him to come back to you know put I would say approv the condition I'm getting the pictures to put them in the file I don't know that I want to do that though because if we're replacing shingles right I would I would say either do that or do it with the the the the committee we got to make him come back for that I mean you can you can have the the minor work committee I get a picture bring you over there make sure you're okay with it I I would do it that way instead of coming back because that's the type of thing we're going to talk about like this too M that you would look at it and say no reason for every to come out so I would say we're going to do that do it that way what does everybody think about that anybody have an opinion I I agree with Vince it should just a lot of this can really be streamlined with the committee yeah I would agree with that the the shingles being replaced you know before without us looking at it doesn't really change what the right what the decision is going to be you're not going to have to take the Shing down yeah EXC I mean if it was different Bill any so be careful with that statement yeah no but that's what I'm saying with this application this bu this particular building it's not like it's contributing to the histal district really well the building itself but the building was Van's from the 1800s and then it it changed hands to the millstone end then it changed hands to the Brooks matter and then it went to so that Center section of that building the house the it was the vany house and it yeah there it is extremely important for the community there's still room top I think stays there no lottory that Center building the outside was built on with Good Time Charlie and um books Manor did I think a little bit that's already been well this is an example of something that was going to be demolished we have someone go in and do Habs drawings of and check out the interior because portions of the house are are important start yeah yeah so we'd have to have an analysis I mean we that's what we would do I mean looks down on the outside but there are historic attributes to the Ian we're not here for a demolition we're here for yeah just one question is this a before or after spray that well that's 18 months after so I assume that the wear there is just from weathering oh that's what it looked like in 18 months yeah yeah that's why they did it all right what are they going to do with the roof in the back here I think that's all been reshingled that's part of the what talking about earlier okay um all right I I guess that the the course of action would be a a conditional approval that um photos and product data be submitted for what was installed on the you get them to me and then they'll go and look at it photos yeah photos and and product information of what was installed on the back samples samples samples or just you know samples of the product the materal yeah not the not the poly foam the the shingles that were replaced on the back side so you look at the building it's the very far left back side that was all replaced yeah we just need something the record even if it's the catalog or something from you know from where wherever it was bought Tim they didn't file a permit for that I thought they no no oh cuz I remember hearing about it from one of the owners that uh they didn't come here okay can I borrow this all okay sample of the the of the the tile shingles yep and a photo of the new outside and yeah what was what was installed Okie doie can I email that to Mr y Dom I would open it up to the public but there's no public left techic she is public um am I really allowed to be public where you go with that one anyway uh do does anybody want to make a motion um as discussed all right I'll make the mo a conditional um motion to approve um with the condition that product data samples and photographs be submitted for uh review and verification I'll second it all in favor any opposed okay any work you do on the exterior the building any work has to come here so the foam is cool yeah we don't care about the foam here can't see it from my house right but but anything that alters or changes the character to building she could come here and it's and it's not really necessarily for your building but it's for the whole Community to make sure that you're fitting in with you know the character not the paint or anything we don't want to P you just painted it right that's not what we plan on though okay unless you're going to paint a fuchsia we might have questions I don't hear any plans for that great thank you thank you very much tonight you need your Cofe back no no you can have it it's f um and that that closes out the formal applications does uh anybody from the public have anything to bring forward where do I begin exactly um seeing no public discussion uh there's really no incoming correspondents uh Bob what's going on with open space these days well we've had no meeting in December and no meeting last month was of weather so okay so we have a couple unfinished business items from the from the end of December um where I just starting do hous cing uh housekeeping and trying to get things together and one of the things uh I wanted to look at is the bylaws uh I brought copies of the bylaws I had sent one copy out to everybody via via email um but they were actually the older set and there's actually a more current set that were adopted that are in the bridge version I'd really like everybody to take a look at these moving uh forward to next month so I want to have a good conversation about how are we doing this of um of whether we want to make any changes or if we need to make any changes to the bylaws uh and it's just that it's good to check on this stuff once in a while because it's yeah these were adopted in 2013 um just a piece of History um for the commission is that about 2013 and I was here for it uh anyway these were the these these were the bylaws um we had an attorney on the board who said this is too much and she came up with this Abridged version um I don't think I I ever loved The Abridged version I think I like the older version of bylaws much better because I think it's more thorough uh but she was somebody that hung on every single word so uh I'd like you to review both that I handed out uh with the idea that I think that we should reopt the older version with updates um so you know you don't have to go through it now you can if you want to um oh you need a set do we have the anything about demolitions so that's the ordinance that's the ordinance that's not the bylaws it's in the ordinance we have a whole four page five page thing on demolition in the ordinance that's in the ordinance yeah so so that's the bylaws I I would really like if everybody could take the time to go through it um and and just read it and even if you just have questions I mean there's no stupid questions there's no good questions and no bad questions they're just questions and uh if you're questioning it maybe we should talk about the change or or what it means um and like I said it's been a long time since we've updated it so um there you go the other thing thing that everybody should uh take a look at which I'm not going to make copies of for everybody is the ordinance and we have the current version of the ordinance and it's it's online anybody can access it um Anthony if you need a copy I know your little technically challenge I'll get you a copy wow well sh have said yes look show um and to your point Glenn this this really talks uh about demolitions what our requirements are for demolitions uh things that are important to you like you know GPR yeah we we all read through that pretty significantly you know when we had those houses yeah so so so I just want everybody read it become more familiar with it and I want you to know that there's going to be a change that we're proposing that uh Vince and I are working on with Mark key a little bit and just so you know it's it's related to the East Avenue Corridor and it's under the minor applications portion where we want to put a subsection J that allows an administrative approval um or review of items along eastn Avenue and basically that's because we don't we don't necessarily need to see the McDonald's or we don't necessarily need to see their changing the sign on the credit union um and it's it's also because I want to make sure we do see everything because a lot of things have been slipping through the cracks long East Avenue to no fault of anybody's but things like you know there somebody built a recently built a shed right up against East Avenue I'm sure it's a permitted use but we definitely should have reviewed it um and and this is a way of us being able to uh Vince I talked about this a little bit but to make sure everything at least comes to us we can make a decision whether we need to see it or not yeah and and it we get to make the decision it doesn't mean everything goes to the the subcommittee or the chair the subcommittee the chair will make the decision and I think what we talked about was that once we make it that we would send the Nixels out and a letter out to everyone on there and make them aware that anything they do they need to do an application we give them a copy of the application so that they know that anything that they do but we're making it easy right it's real easy a lot of the stuff will just be boom boom instead of having to wait a month and come come in here and make it a presentation so so question on that is you know these two tonight were not in the E Avenue Corridor and I would have wanted them to come to the full commission even the flat roof polyurethane spray that nobody sees he didn't come prepared because the reason why he was called a task or the owner was called the task is because there was a report that the roof for the shingle the shingle por roof was replaced okay but that means had they made an application mhm that could have been reviewed potentially administratively right but they didn't that's why that's like like maybe this East Avenue Corridor should be a little bit more broad spectrum in terms of I uh I agree and that's one of the reasons why we're having this conversation good so so that that's part of why I want everybody to read the ordinance and the bylaws together so that we can make those adjust ments where um you know the idea I brought in December was that um every month we appoint a minor application subcommittee so if there is roofs I could go hey uh Dom this came in and Carla this came in the three of us are the subcommittee for this month what do you think yeah that's great and and that way not one sole person is making a decision but a subset of the group yeah and it saves time and in the actual meeting for more more substantial applications like for example we for both of those applications tonight we might have been able to handle those administratively and either not had a meeting or had a meeting but then we could focus on grant writing or looking for opportunities for the community which is something we just have not had time to do and I would love for us to actually take advantage of CLG grants and stuff or doing continuing education and we could do those in the meeting if we had the time and and being able to release some of these applications would do that yeah s good okay I'm Semite technically challenged I'm I'm on the historic preservation our our website where do I find the ordinance now you want to go to our you want you want to go to our town you want to go to our Township website and up top was it Cod 360p there's where's Municipal codes oh okay I was looking for his story chapter 112 chapter development left cap 112 and it's I whatever it's 200 whatever is it is it 200 something it's uh 200 yeah I I probably have a hard copy in my I I'll make sure I can print out a couple copies for everybody then historic preservation and then the whole ordinance is there it's just chapter 112 of oh but it doesn't even say ordinance well it is it because it it's it's chapter 112 1122 200 yeah okay the the this was actually one of the funny things that you'll read in the old bylaws versus the new bylaws as Jean was very big on it's the code once it's adopted well you know the one thing when I was reading through it that got me is the the chairman he shall appoint on his that's because you guys will let me quit that's your fault and if there's language changes like that that need to be changed like chairman to chairperson I I think that's appropriate no it is chair person but then it's his and he we may actually have language in our ordinance that says somewhere that we're not because we'd have to go back and change a thousand things so so so related to all of this I printed out um nice as big as I could before I left um where I can print things um the the local Historic District map for for Franklin so this is just so everybody can kind of see what we're we talk about every every month um and you know we have the E Avenue Corridor which is only technically a historic district because it's within 1,000 ft of the canal just like everything within a th000 ft of the canal makes up our western border and we have middle Bush East Millstone Franklin Park which is the most bastardized one we were discussing today with the signage and then we're all the the snobbery lives next to GL and Kingston way down there and and briggstown is just because of the canal and G is not next to Glenn right exactly I heard next to Glenn yes this is where people have teleports in their backyard yeah you do know that Glenn is only Glenn because he has to be Glenn but you chose to be with exactly so so so Nancy great great point griggstown is not listed on here as an individual District even though it's covered by the canal um there's another overlay map that I did not print out that is of the state and uh National Historic um designated places within Franklin um but the main reason why I pull this out is to talk about this East Avenue Corridor which is what what we've been talking about with the minor applications and and one of the questions that I wanted to bring up was um do we want let me let me take it back in step by making an amendment within our ordinance to say within the E Avenue District we have the form in Easton Avenue District otherwise it's just part of the canal buffer no we don't have to form it we just have we got to Define it right Define it yeah so so I guess my question is do we Define it as what's shown on the map or do we just take it from 287 to Landing Lane which kind of seems foolish to me to only leave this little chunk out but it would be easier to to find it on the map that then we don't have to list it by block and lot or anything else like that we have many references in the ordinance as per the approved or whatever the map that's the easiest way to do it it's just a it's just a note so so then what the direction of Mark the planning would be to amend the current map the you'll tell me and then I will tell I'll do the ordinance and then I will tell uh our guy in the gis Department to label it okay cuz really all all we call it whatever we want we could decide tomorrow I could tell them to label it that way the way it's enforced is we put it in the ordinance that okay so there you go all right so so that's that's easy to do so so that's something to think about again moving for the next meeting where I want to start like voting and talking about some of these changes yeah cuz I would like this is a very minor change if we're going to make other changes like something to demolition where we want to say we have to do your all your radar type of stuff well no I'm not being but if if there's we want to do it all at once it's easy to do 10 things we don't want to give Council one change a month for 12 months we do everything all at once and he changes and now we our Council liaison over here is uh you know fully part of the process and knows what the changes are that we're going to propose um so that way you're not giving peace meal but so so so my so my soft goal is maybe by the summer we're ready to talk about the proposed changes with Vince and the planning and then it has has to get approved by council at the end of the day right so yeah that's why you just tell me what you want to do I put it in ordinance form and take six weeks so so that was it I just wanted to bring this stuff up because I I started unraveling this mess in December um and I actually wanted to carry it forward so um what about the Franklin Park I mean if we do that for for East and app that makes a lot of sense why are we not doing it for Franklin Park is it because there enough things there yet so the the the funny thing about Franklin Park is is that um you know who Tilly is from Asbury Park the clown oh Tilly the clown I think of Franklin Park is Tilly the clown like he was punched in the face and his teeth are falling out you know we keep losing pieces of that yeah and the fabric and the other the pr problem is on the other side of 27 there's nothing left right and you know we lost two buildings to Illegal demolition in the past four years and then we lost chonies what 15 years ago at this point um so there's only like some teeth remaining and I think that we should try and keep as much oversight on what's left as we can okay you have a couple houses on Pleasant Plain Road maybe about three or four and then across the street and of course you got the church right and I was going to say basically it's not only what's Chang is what might be proposed to redevelop that we can keep it in the character of that so I wouldn't say give it up at all right and I would actually argue that part of the problem with it is that the district's not big enough you know if you were to go a couple blocks off of Park there's assets back there that you know are not really protected um there's a couple of farmhouses back there but the one that the church wanted to demolish um you know then there's the one um right off of uh what was it called it's it's right over here I can't remember the street it's on um and I I actually almost say the same thing about middle Bush you know middle Bush would be better served if it was extended down middle Bush a little but that's neither here or there we're not here for that um I'm just saying that you know there's reasons to keep it okay so those are the things I want everybody to really start thinking and this is the fun stuff this is why we do this not for reviewing applications right definitely so um you know everybody's welcome to dig into it um there's a there's a wealth of resources available um and you know let's like make some changes I have a question about the green of the township designated SE Scenic roads um is there are there any teeth in the fact that it's a Township designated Scenic Road we have we have something called Scenic corridors and if it's in the scenic Corridor there are increased setbacks for uh for buildings and screening screening so yeah yes and in fact the B9 yeah application was required to have greater setbacks twice the normal setbacks because it was located within a Scenic quarter so there actually is teeth in the zone origin but not for us but it has nothing to do with you it's when they do it for site plan review right okay thanks so what's also interesting about this map when you look at it is is because of the canal there's a tremendous amount of review area which is why uh we can have really busy periods um so well we midnight the one night we had like nine applications remember just went on and on and yeah I think the past uh past two years have been our slowest it's been like an anomaly yeah is it because people aren't doing it or submitting or I think tell a couple things I I think the the roofing and the sighting thing hit us where the state took it and said they don't need to go before so we lost a ton of that that cuz they were coming before us a lot and Co and guess yeah we had a few things happen without our you know few houses come down didn't feel like going for approvals for anything for a little while so but Andrew getting back to the subcommittee I think it's really important that that get put in as quick as possible I have a question you know way over in East Franklin close to the New Brunswick has it ever been discussed those sweet little houses that are there you know where Tom Gail used to live that's where you used to live Rodney oh Rodney Avenue yeah FR you know those little tutor style they're all American Force SES yeah yeah yeah I one for 13 years has that ever been considered part of that not that I'm party to yeah no there's never been talk about not including Mur took place that's actually a FY that murder took place so ni oh yeah the were there but yeah now those houses are all built 1928 they're really nice no it's p 100 years our street had you know the two nice pillars on it you so and they should be protected but I don't know whether or not well I mean it would take a national nomination uh search to do that right so somebody would have to do a a whole process to do that mhm I would do it I think they've pretty much taken a not to change although I haven't been back in that area for a long we live I lived there for like think 15 years and we we restored our house and a lot of the neighbors did the same thing but uh not a lot of them knew what they were doing and you know so it was more of a you know di DIY and it's not the whole neighborhood there's a couple it's really it's it's only it's only uh two streets and there's some on the other side of Franklin Boulevard too one street on the other side one street on the other side they were they were supposed to be the um the model homes the entire neighborhood was supposed to be them and then the FR head so it was the same Builder who built yeah yeah so every other house is the same house every other house mhm yeah it's leit before lit yeah so they built on one side and they built on the other side but only uh like there's two streets on our side and there was another one street on the other side all right well we're digressing a little bit we're we're becoming very ambitious so let's take the little trunks we can I want everybody to read the bylaws and the ordinance if you can please um and then we're going to start talking about the proposed changes and coordination with uh with Vince and and our Council a on maybe we just had a deadline for when we want to have these changes well I want feedback from Everybody by the next meeting and I want to be able to start talking about a draft by the summer so that we can have this implemented um before the end of the year um if sooner if we can get there but you know I mean it's February yeah I mean sooner we you get there but that that involves everybody doing stuff right which is always a challenge when you're in a volunteer organization M all right that was that was my information for tonight um anybody have any idea where my agenda was there's nothing left no when do we do Financial disclosures we have to start she'll send them out yeah will get them to you um so the open space e Avenue quter minor Improvement subcommitte we talked all about that is there any other new business anybody has uh Carla sent me and I forwarded to everybody a Educational Opportunity um take a look at it if you're interested um I heard it's wonderful I heard it's really really great uh and feel free to forward stuff like that to everybody on the email chain sure um next meeting is February 6th um that's today today oh yeah to we need better help around here March 5th sorry um any other new business before we close anybody um and with that uh motion to adjourn I'll make a motion second all right have a good [Music] weekend good mom