evening I'd like to call the meeting to order put your mic on in accordance with the open public meetings Act V 1975 this this zoning board meeting of April 4th is called to order adequate notice of this regular meeting the board of adjustment of the township of Franklin has been provided board members it's on it is on board members applicant professionals and members of the public please speak directly into microphones so that our recording secretary can properly process minutes applicants and professionals please fill out the sheet on the table when you've completed your testimony please call the roll Sher beia here Richard anic here Joel Ree and Faraz Kanan as to be excused this evening Alan Rich here Gary Rosenthal here Robert Shephard here MIM Vos Michael dhy here Kunal lir here chairman Thomas here minutes of the regular meeting February 15 2024 we have a motion I second I'm who's second Allan I did oh Cheryl sorry Cheryl beia yes Alan Rich yes Gary Rosenthal yes Robert Shephard yes bassim radas yes chairman Thomas yes resolution David morsky cbaa 243 we need a motion I'll second Sher beia yes Richard pranic yes Allan Rich yes Gary Rosenthal yes Robert Shephard yes bassim veros yes chairman Thomas yes okay we have uh no discussion we have one hearing 11 properties LP zba 24 o1 preliminary and final major site plan with CN D variances in which the applicant proposes to construct a four-story apartment building at 940 eastn Avenue Somerset block 385 lot 2.07 in the ZB uh GB Zone and we have everybody here you ready we are ready Mr chairman we're going to establish a few uh ground rules before we start how many witnesses do you expect to call we have a total of eight that's total obviously and I would probably say right away we probably won't get through all eight but we'll we'll see how it goes uh that brings me to one other issue is we have a 10:00 time limit we finish testimony and questioning of whatever Witnesses whatever witness is uh being questioned at that time and then we adjourn we start no new testimony after 10 um just so everybody understands how this works cuz it's different if you've had experience in front of the planning board uh the applicant will present a witness who will give testimony the board will question that witness at the end of his test his or her testimony then we will open to the public and members of the public are free if they wish to question that witness but only based on the testimony that's given by the witness or a question concerning something uh involving that witness's expertise uh you don't ask the traffic expert an architectural question right uh we don't normally set a time limit for this your questions have to be questions not statements and they have to be be relevant to the expert and the testimony that you just heard after that we close to the public uh applicant calls the next witness and we repeat the process all the way through after the Final witness we'll have another opening to the public and you will be able at that time to give your statement comment opinion if you will uh we'll deal with that a little bit more in detail later that is the only place where we may see fit to uh establish time limits judging by this crowd we probably will have a five minute time limit I'll ask before we start how many people think they expect to speak if it's you know a few I don't know where there's a magic number uh then we won't have a time limit if it's 50 people we'll have a Time time limit when you get your chance to question Witnesses if someone has gone before you and they've asked your questions don't ask the same questions again don't make the same comments over and over again the board is very good at paying attention they don't need to hear the same the answer to the same question four or five times that's all we ask that way everyone will get a chance it'll move uh efficiently and we'll get through it that being said uh any questions okay you're on thank you Mr chairman members of the board for the record my name is John wisneski Law Firm of wisneski and Associates representing the applicant this evening uh this is an application for uh C and D variances as was indicated as well as a site plan for preliminary and final approval uh real briefly this is a process that's been ongoing for five years my client first met with Municipal Professionals in 2019 we initially filed an application with the zoning board we withdrew that application we did a informal presentation in front of the planning board uh the other night we were back here in front of the historic Pres reservation advisory commission and now we're back here on this application um I'm not going to do a lot of preliminaries I'd like to get right into the testimony the first person uh before we do that however I'd like to have uh ask councel has the board accepted jurisdiction based upon the Affidavit of uh service that we've submitted uh with the certified mail proofs and the Affidavit of publication from the newspaper yes yes okay thank you very much I first like to call cydney singer he is the vice president of Levan Management in charge of leasing Mr singer if you'd come up I believe they're going to want to swear you in uh Mr singer if you can raise your right hand please do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do you please restate your name and spell your last name for the record please Sydney singer s i n g r okay Mr wisneski your witness Mr siger I believe that um you may sit if you'd like if it's okay with the board that's fine um you have an opening that you would like to present it gives the background as to why Levan is here tonight seeking this application and this approval yes thank you and good evening everybody uh Sid singer L management thank you again hold it real close I'd like to share with you some background information today about Rutter's plaza ruer plaza shopping center was developed and built in early 1970s by 11 properties and it originally included a WT Grand store a general Cinema movie theater a supermarket and a number of smaller shops offering retail products and services in Suburban Franklin Township sh over the years Kmart assumed the WT Grand store and after General Cinema closed their theater the center underwent a degree development and renovation in 2001 through 2025 which included demolition of the theater building and construction of a new freestanding 74,000 foot Stop and Shop supermarket and a Chase Bank pad excuse me in early 2018 Levan was concerned about the future of the nearly 100,000 000 foot Kmart store based on reported sales performance of The ruter Plaza store and the eventual bankruptcy of filing of Sears the parent of Kmart Levan's leasing team began marketing the space to potential big box an big box anchor stores as well as smaller Junior anchors prior to Kmart's eventual closing and Lease rejection and bankruptcy I assumed the leasing responsibilities for ruers Plaza in April of 2018 when I joined Lev Management Corporation and after my promotion to VP of leasing I reassigned that property and I continue to oversee the leasing efforts for the center today our team consisting of six full-time agents focused on retailer expansion relocation and of course retention our leasing team is very active in the New Jersey retail leasing Market Levan management recorded a record breaking 1 million square feet of leasing transactions in 2021 followed by another record-breaking year in 2022 of 1.2 million square feet of Leasing 2023 exceeded 1 M billion square feet as well our team continues to market the former Ki box and adjacent space to potential anchors and Junior anchors ranging from 20,000 Square ft to 880,000 square ft back filling spaces like these former Kmart box boxes have many components such as the current post-pandemic economy and the eCommerce economy now more than ever retailers rely mainly on analytics and no longer go with their gut feelings as the likely success of a potential new location frankly our belief nor Franklin Township's belief doesn't matter if the analytics do not check the boxes retailers simply will move on to locations that do we continually revisit with all these potential anchor and Junior anchors that are in the New Jersey retail Market areas it should be noted that we are currently negotiating leases that will result in demising the vacant Office Depot space allowing for two tenant occupancy each at about 10,000 square feet centered around the entertainment category the feedback our leasing team has received and continues to receive cites several issues with Roder Plaza first and foremost at First of and most important is that the easn Avenue Retail Corridor is viewed as a secondary retail Market sandwiched between the stronger retail trade areas such as Bridgewater East Brunswick and North Brunswick and to a lesser extent Piscataway all of the potential anchors and Junior anchor tenants do extensive market analysis including cannibal cannibalization studies which is the impact of adding new stores and what that will have on existing stores within the market since covid these tenants have been more selective concerning expansion all of these competing trade areas are within a 15 to 20 minute drive time of Rucker Plaza most of the potential replacement anchor tenants as well as Junior anchors already have stores located these established nearby trade areas where there is a critical mass of other retailers despite Levan's efforts since 2018 we have just not found any demand for this location to date for replacement anchors or Junior anchors secondly the existing Kmart box is obsolete it is roughly 350 ft wide by 350 ft deep and has a clear ceiling height of about 16 and a half ft today's anchor stores will not leave space that is 15 315 feet deep the major Home Centers such as Home Depot and lows require 500 feet of Frontage which we cannot accommodate at Rucker's Plaza most anchors and Junior anchors would prefer not more than 150 ft of store depth with a clear height of a minimum of not less than 19 ft we hired an architect to create renderings of new configuration of the Kmart box to reduce the depth of the space as a marketing tool for Leasing and still could not find anchors or Junior anchor interest Excuse me while our site is significantly challenged by limited visibility the two adjacent uh from the two adjoining streets which is very important to retailers we are also confronted by major changes in the evolving retail tenant World pre-co there was already an increasing Trend towards e-commerce and less brick and mortar retailing of products Co accelerated this trend in 2019 11% of all retail sales in the US were done through the internet in 2022 this figure increased to 14.7% and again increased in 2023 to 15.4% this trend has made new site selection for anchor stores much more challenging and they must more closely evaluate potential sites for new store locations as previously stated and while the e-commerce Trend shows the need for shopping center owners to find more internet proof retail tenants like entertainment personal services restaurants the categories do not work for a 100,000 ft OB obsolete building I should also mention that Cinema chains have not been expanding and big box retailers such as Target to Walmart have reverted back to their fullsize stores of about 150,000 Square fet we remain committed to preserving the retail at ruer Plaza but we must have another anchor to accomplish that we cannot continue to have a vacant 100,000 ft obsolete building that was not leasable our existing retailers are committed commed to ruer Plaza and we are as well we signed new leases with McDon with McDonald's to take the old Burger King building another new lease with the tax agency leano and Associates two pending leases mentioned above and I'm working with another tenant proposing to take nearly 5,000 square fet noting they are evaluating two competing locations in the immediate area Chase Bank Crunch Fitness Dollar Tree moral Village and T-Mobile have all extended the leases on a long-term basis and Venus is under construction for their newly expanded store and extended long-term lease as an agent of VP of leasing I'm very concerned that without this newly proposed anchor Rucker's Plaza will be faced with new vacancy that will see the same fate as Kmart had seen for the past four years dark vacant unleash without VI viable anchors to support the retail component based on this background Levan started to explore alternative uses for the former Kat Box about 5 years ago we felt it was important to replace the consumer traffic generated by an anchor store with another use that would bring regular foot traffic to the center in order to keep the remaining stores in the center viable among the valuable options office building was not considered due to the very high vacancy rate in the office Market surrounding ruer Plaza the office component of retail real estate continues to struggle with no sign of relief the best use for the empty Kmart boxes the consider residential as was part of a mixed use development the residential component would serve as a second anchor store to stop and shop Stop and Shop remains concerned about the future of the shopping center and their position hasn't changed without a Redevelopment of ruers Plaza it's possible Stop and Shop will vacate at the end of their term in 2025 however with this Redevelopment shop and stop stop and shop will have every reason to extend their lease and remain one of the anchors of ruter Plaza having a residential component adds more good regular Supermarket customers to the center like a retail anchor and because of this location of ruus Plaza it is it is not in high demand amongst replacement anchor stores and Junior anchors as resident as residential component will serve the same purpose in short our proposed Redevelopment is appropriate transformation of an older struggling retail Center to a modern mixed use development the current site lends itself L lends itself to this based on the existing parking fields which is sometimes a challenge in other mixed use development where different uses for compete are competing for the same parking spaces in ruter Plaza there is a defined and adequate parking field for the residential component while the retail building buildings have defined an adequate parking for their customers adding a new anchor as a red as a residential component will Revitalize the existing retail space and provide an opportunity for the center to get leased up for the long-term future thank you thank you Mr singer Mr chairman that concludes this witness's testimony okay any board questions you mentioned anchor several times now I'm I was under the impression an anchor was another store a bigger store that would bring customers into to smaller stores around the the area there yeah so aners are typically a bigger box generating somewhere between that 880,000 to 100,000 150,000 Square ft where Junior anchors range a little bit more closer to the 20 to 50,000 foot range so how do how does that compare with the residential how how does a residential bring in customers well people like to live to dine eat and play if you will in those areas without having to go to another Center or another location they can just kind of walk over and do what they want to do there on a daily basis any other board questions open to the public actually I have one yeah so you mentioned many names that you have tried um have you considered U any indoor sports related uh franchises and uh you know there could be lot of indoor sports uh activities that could be built in there too yeah we we have seen uh pickle ball as an example as one of those types of sports that you see today um in the Office Depot space we're working with kids entertainment and also a uh a fitness type use that's centered around sports that's the two tenants that I mentioned that are boys to take over and demise that space next to Crunch Fitness um I have a question um who thought of use of creating a a force story building um not exactly sure who thought of the retail component for four stories uh I would imagine some of the consultants in that regard would have a better better idea of who would I'm sorry you said somebody else would have a better idea I would imagine John I think he's saying one of the professionals that will come will probably be able to provide better Clarity on that okay all right yeah we I I focus on the retail component okay other questions yeah Mr chairman a few questions so we heard before that there was um that this effort is I think I heard five years in the making have you been trying to uh lease Kmart in that time or did did your efforts to lease Kmart stopped when that five years ago they haven't stopped at all they continue to to work today on on the property and on that space so the Kmart space correct okay so why you've had obviously some type of you know um you had I guess a a residential developer is going to build the uh has the interest in building that you've continued to try to lease the Kmart space despite that that's correct my team is focused on the retail that's their job to do that's my job to do I don't really have any vested interest if you will in the residential component except what's best for the rest of the shopping center okay could you characterize what's the the nature of those efforts well it's a couple different things there's Mass marketing there's email blast there's what we call you know uh ground marketing where you go out and talk to the different tenants we attend all ICC which is the uh shopping centers if you will where all the people get together retailers Brokers tenants alike to talk about expanding where they're expanding what they're looking for in their newer Trends so we attend all those conventions um one of the board members had asked about a non- retail um and he had mentioned a particular example but did you look at any other non- retail uses for that site we have we looked at um things like Self Storage that didn't really work out very well because they uh they have certain intricacies that are associated with that but we've looked at other Alternatives uh Self Storage as I mentioned the entertainment side of things the cinema again we looked at be clearly Co had an impact on that as well and they're not expanding but we really focus on the retail component okay what about um some type of medical facility we were right down the street from Robert Wood Johnson and St Peters were was there any effort to explore that yes uh kind of a different category than than we're typically looked at in terms of what we do from a retail component so it's a little bit different field but yes we engage with the same brokerage community that handles office medical retail was there was was there any interest in that in that segment uh preliminary interest nothing that I would say to you that would be um viable at this point but preliminary interest okay how about as an educational use yeah we talked to the different schools uh in the area we did look at that nothing really transformed in that need for them um so uh you know if it was an option for us and and it was something that the other parties showed interest in we would explore that we would offer them any information that's available that they need uh but we haven't gotten any any real interest to date okay any others I do have one question um so if if you had started this process approximately 5 years ago and and engag the township why has the township not supported this effort via an overlay District or Redevelopment plan I'm as confused by that as you are Mr chairman if I can uh jump in so uh just to give you a better detail on the history we first filed an application uh about four years ago three and a half years ago uh there was a resolution of the governing body uh opposing that application at that point in time we withdrew the application from consideration by the zoning board uh we then thought that well maybe an alternative process would be to make a presentation to the planning board with the suggestion that a narrowly tailored resoning of the property could be accomplished uh there did not appear to be any receptiveness to that we made the presentation but there was no interest expressed by those officials and so the the applicant here has been trying to continue to Market it but also trying to keep other options open because of the length of time that this box has been empty and so they've been pursuing both in hopes that one of the paths will pan out I'll try again now is there anyone in the public who would like to ask this witness a question concerning his testimony come to the mic your name Arnold Schmidt 134 picky Road Somerset wasn't planning on asking you any questions until the very end when you mentioned pickle ball and there are several examples specifically with Kmarts throughout the country that have closed have been reinvented with pickle ball courts pickle ball is one of the largest growing Sports in the country especially among people 55 years and older um we have a lot of people 55 years and older in this town and according to the Levan website there are 10,000 people within one square mile of the Kmart site so what happened to your investigation into pickle ball courts that could also have with it other entertainment aspects for not only pickle ball if there's more room for other things agreed pickle ball is growing and it's a lovely sport there's no question about that one of the interesting Parts about that is there's opportunities out there other than ruers Plaza other than a Kmart box those that Trend right now you're starting to see them come into the shopping centers um but there are some challenges with that the ceiling Heights usually are a challenge for them column spacing is a challenge for them um so it it it and size is a challenge for them because they are not typically 100,000 foot foot plus quarts they're typically much smaller than that you talked more about other sites not this site and this site has a high ceiling there isn't a problem from what I can see as far as pickle ball is concerned so why are you deflecting away from to talk about other sites and not this site as far as using it for pickle ball uh I don't think I was deflecting it I'm saying some of the challenges that we're having are attracting those pickle ball uses that find this site more desirable than other sites that has not been the case so far okay but you have heavily pursued it oh most certainly yes okay all right thanks thank you Ma good evening my name is Kik anastas because I live in um Canal Walk 3204 Enclave Circle in Somerset and I have been a 20 25 year resident of Somerset County um so Mr singer thank you first of all for your presentation um you mentioned my question one of my questions is you mentioned your leasing team and how uh involved they were in pursuing this um and did they did they do a market study or of Franklin Township like income and how many other as you call them anchors was there a specific Market study that was done pertaining to this particular site most certainly yes okay is that study available to the public is it documented and is it something that we can request if you go on to the 11 website our brochure does show a lot of those statistics that you're looking for specifically to the Kmart site specifically to rer supplier yes okay um also uh you mentioned different anchors that you you approached and you marketed and you promoted the site for um is each one of these documented like if you approached let's say um Walmart or Target did you document uh the meetings that you had who attended the meetings what date those meetings took place and are those available to the public they're not available to the public but they are documented they're documented okay um so how successful would you say that your your marketing team is overall in the history of 11 properties marketing team or leasing team or both both both well the fact that um I did mention the testimony that 2021 and 2022 were record years for leasing on our team in the 70y year history so I'd say pretty successful okay so if they have been so successful in the past uh what makes it so difficult for them to address the current challenges because a successful team is not a good team only when the economic conditions are good a a good marketing team and a good leasing team should be able to tackle challenges like covid e-commerce Etc so how do you explain the fact that they have been unable and unsuccessful to get either a big or a junior anchor well as I mentioned the testimony we're sandwiched between some major markets here and this site is obsolete it doesn't fit for the those larger anchor stores that I had mentioned um and as far as the junior anchors they want to be around other co-tenants that are similar so unfortunately when you look at our Center in comparison to the major markets around here they have a uh satisfactory coverage in those markets and there's other markets that they would pursue where there are voids they don't look at this particular set as a void for them okay thank you but how would your leasing team or marketing team expl explain the fact that Franklin Township is the only Township that when you do a Google study you don't see any major anchors and what is so unique about Franklin Township that I mean you you can say the same thing for any any town that it's sandwich between other you know so New Brunswick is sandwich between piscato way Edison and I don't know Wiston or whatever so what is so unique according to your marketing team or leasing team about Franklin is Franklin Township cursed to become a retail desert as I call it no I wouldn't say it would be cursed but in reality we don't make the decision for the retailers they make their decision we can only present an opportunity to them they do their Market study they do their own and they work independently as much as we may try to convince them of the need the want to desire if it doesn't fit their needs wants and desires they're not going to come here okay thank you um my other question is did you present to these acors any Financial incentives like lower rent for the first five years or you know I don't know yeah getting creative when it comes to offer and leasing terms is something that we do on a daily basis with every deal that we look at specifically with financial incentives because and the reason why I'm asking this is because every retailer I know from my hairdresser to my dry cleaner to whoever they all complain about the high rents that they have to pay um for you know the space that they are leasing in any not yours specifically but in any given uh strip mole so did you consider most certainly when you look at anchors or Junior anchors they're typically a lower rent pairer because they're the ones that bring the traffic to the center to support the smaller retailers okay okay and my last question thank you my last question is in The Last 5 Years how many such conversions has leev properties pursued meaning from retail to residential in the state of New Jersey or in other states that you have businesses uh I don't have the answer to that question unfortunately again my team we focus on the retail side I can share with you we haven't done residential if that's what you're asking but you ask yes I'm asking if this is the first time that you're trying to con to divert your investments from commercial where you've been so successful to residential where it's a new it's a new thing for you right for to my understanding this would be the first the first okay thank [Applause] you Mr chairman if I could just um if the uh individuals could at least speak so that the court reporter can pick up the name sometimes it goes quickly and she may not be able to hear everything need the last speaker name and address please hi my name is Donna I'm from 19 no that's nice and laugh so that she can hear and full name not just your first name Donna Summers 19 Shelly Drive Somerset New Jersey excellent I'm a little nervous I've never done this before um I have a couple of questions how many units were they wanting to build at that Kmart believe it was 200 so how many residents are in Somerset Franklin town ship does anybody have a number about 70,000 so what you're saying is the uh Stop and Shop would feel more comfortable having 200 people that are there living on site than bringing in 70 some thousand Somerset residents no I think they'd be more comfortable than having the vacant box there with no activity have you you considered dressing up the property that you're trying to rent because in all the years I've lived here I've never seen one Improvement go on in that shopping center and usually when you Market a property for rent or sale you beautify it yeah when you're talking about something in a Redevelopment and anchor tenants and Junior anchor tenants they have very specific facade needs if that's what you're talking about the side of the building the look from the outside they have very specific needs and those needs are ever changing so to build something today probably would not fit for that tenant that may come tomorrow right that's what I'm saying in in order to really want to bring in a retail client there's got to be some effort on the person that owns the strip mall and I don't see any effort okay starting to move into more statements than questions I'll give you another question have you tried to take that building and consider redeveloping that area where the Kmart is for smaller shops yeah if you go on the website you'll see there's two different components of it the existing building as Kmart is today and then a scout back version reducing the depth of that building significantly to to attract those types of tenants that you're talking about so you would be adding smaller retail spaces there they would accommodate their your smaller retails what what would qualify as a junior anchor that 15 to 25 30,000 foot T out yes okay and um that's probably all the questions I have thank you thank you he thank [Applause] you okay loud and clear name and address I understand good evening Nicole Pride 12 Drake Road in Somerset last name is pride p r i d is in David E is in Edward excellent I have a couple questions one was there a study done to to determine the impact on the school district with having additional residential units in the area Mr chairman we have a witness who's going to be addressing that later on in the presentation today tonight well when we get to them yeah that question probably sorry was that a yes or a no that's a we don't know it all depends how far we get got it I'm I I appreciate that you'd like to know and you'd liked it to be tonight but as you can see each witness is going to take longer than just their testimony period because people have questions sure got it thank you the other question I have is you talked about some of the physical constraints of the building and how it makes it difficult for you to find a a another store to come into the unit and I think you use Home Depot as an example so if you're developing a new construction for a residential unit that means you're changing ceiling Heights maybe or you're changing the configuration of the building so can you tell me why can't the buildings be modified to have a new big retailer come to the development it's not that the building can't be modified the foot pit print can't be expanded beyond what it is you only have a certain amount of width to offer the those bigger boxes that you're talking about we have 315 ft right now of width of the building to expand it to 500 ft that would be needed for those types of tenants that you asked about would take you into the roadway on on J JFK okay all right thank you thank you good evening my name is Lincoln Austin Lawrence 14 Courtland Drive simet New Jersey I only had two things uh the first it was kind of a I hate to say sound pseudo threat about uh shopright leaving in 2025 I'm sorry stoping shop now they said that if you don't rent this and make this some type of a residential area they're going to not renew their lease Mr chairman they're going to be testifying but he mention it he brought it up and he's the one I'm asking about he's what he what he's saying is that someone from Stop and Shop will come and testify and I I think that that will will address whatever issues relate to stop and shop staying or going even though you get it right from the horse's mouth but he's kind of the horse here too because he's the one who said that they told him that they might not well he mentioned or they won't he mentioned that this project might be an impetus to them to want to stay beyond their lease okay the way he word it sounded as if he were saying they were going to leave unless is that inaccurate that is inaccurate Mr chairman his words were it's possible Stop and Shop could vacate at the end of their term in 2025 and it's just as possible they could not okay thank you just want to know that part and as the other person alluded to with you mentioning the the sizes of things and we talk about anchors and Junior anchors there junior junior anchors so you can make a lot more little stores in that area instead of just one big store or two buil building it up you can have 10 stores in the same spot break it down rebuild there is that an option we have some small shop vas that's what we refer to it that's been sitting vacant for some time in the center so we're not taking that away that's still there and that has proven to be challenging because there isn't an anchor tenant bringing the draw that those smaller tenants feed off of haven't had an anchor tenant there since I don't know when remember when Kart left well you have one the grocery store that's your one anchor the second secondary anchor is what brings the additional traffic think we've got enough traffic thank you good evening my name is Renee mcginness 93 Oakland Avenue Somerset New Jersey hello just I have two quick questions number pull the microphone down there you go thank you thank you just two quick questions are planning members or Township council members invited to meetings when you are marketing when you're looking to bring in um either big box or um I would say the smaller ones that the smaller incor stores are they a part of it of this vision for the Township from a retail component no yes okay thank you uh my second question is I know you made a statement that since the pandemic there's changes but we know um I don't I don't know what they're refer to as um a lower as the anchor what size anchor but when we're talking about TJX corporations TJ Maxx Marshals they're growing 3% each year they're at 13.3 billion that they they actually stated in November so those type of stores are all over the place and growing have you reached out to them and Market it for here yeah those are the junior anchor category attendants and we speak with them on a consistent basis okay so one one last question a represent a representative from the township are they actively pursuing as well along with you and I know I I know I stated this a little bit different but I'm saying is that allowed can this be done because this is our town and a voice needs to be heard from the people as well certainly wouldn't be disinvited okay that's for sure thank you just for your for your information the township has a and I'm economic development director that's available to talk to businesses and encourage uh commercial growth it would be highly inappropriate for any members of any boards planning or zoning to be involved in discussions involving bringing anybody into the township okay I'm Marilyn Johnson I live at 144 Drake Road I have been um resident here for 60 years I would like to know if there has been a traffic study on Eastern Avenue ma the traffic study is coming later that's I'm sorry it's not appropriate for this witness I'm sorry but it doesn't it'll come later but it's not doesn't that have a very big impact on your decision I agree with you but it comes with another witness the questions now are for his testimony questions that you may have or clarifications um all right he didn't testify about traffic so you can't really ask him traffic questions somebody else is going to come up and speak on that issue we'll cross-examine them and you can cross-examine them then Mr chairman Mr chairman I think it may help could Mr winki can you inform that the board and the public who you're going to be presenting and what they're going to be speaking to yes that would help absolutely so we have Mr singer who's the vice president of leasing Scott Turner a licensed civil engineer from Menlo engineering will'll be talking about the site plan we have Carl peny uh an engineer uh from Langan who will be talking about the traffic study that was done Andrew Melo uh an architect of minow Wasco will be talking about the facades about the building about the layout about the materials uh Christopher aotto of the AO group will be talking about the market analysis uh the uh the number of children that will potentially be attracted to the building uh how this fits into the economics of the center and the community uh we have a representative from Stop and Shop who will testify we have a another tenant from within the shopping center who will testify and then concluding we will have Paul Phillips our planner who will provide the required planning testimony for the variances okay the short answer here is your question is fine but this is the wrong person to ask um uh have you uh discussed the profitability to Franklin Township for having this I'm not sure I understand the question how does it benefit Franklin Township to have these apartments put into this is something that will probably more likely come from the planner or a couple of the other Witnesses the marketing analysis uh that you mentioned this witness is to be questioned on the testimony that he gave and presented your questions are fine just the wrong person I I think the public you need to remember this is kind of like we've all watched TV shows and movies where there's a court know this gentleman just gave testimony this is your opportunity just like the board did in some members of the public to cross you know to to to ex cross-examine the testimony that he provided so that's why it's it's like this and then there's going to be another expert and you're going to have an opportunity to cross-examine them on their reports and their and their testimony so please again that's that's why the Chairman's trying to get you to concentrate on his testimony get questions uh you know out that you need about his testimony in other words this is not the final meeting is that correct absolutely not I don't think about this issue we wouldn't have a chance to ever finish this tonight we've heard there's going to be I think eight or nine people speaking and the chairman said here's a deadline of 10 o00 so do the math [Applause] hello good evening uh my name is watel sha and I'm living on 11 summeral Road I'm not sure whether my question now stays after chairman clarified couple of things about testimony but maybe I'm not sure if I would put the question here whether this uh is is it uh any any zoning variance been taken here for this site I'll just while you're here yeah we're here because we're asking for a use variance we're asking for bulk variances and we're seeking site plan approval and so all of those issues are ultimately the decision of the board based upon the testimony that comes tonight and whatever future meetings this is tell that okay because what I have seen that unless you present your case very strongly and without any public push back I don't think that's my understanding I'm also civil engineer so I don't think you user usage variance would be approved I believe so so that's why that's that's a statement that you can make later okay yeah and and we're nowhere near having enough information to making that sorry about that yeah and uh okay yeah that's it thank you very [Applause] much hi Deborah zoty 1935 old am Road Somerset um my questions are specific um you mentioned several times through your testimony that the current building structure is not conducive to a large anchor or Junior anchor tenant you've also provided that your marketing team has done uh a lot of work to try to occupy that space my question is has your team your your professional development considered improving the space to meet the current economic needs the space that we would try to improve would be more tenant specific for a tenants interest these Junior boxes that would require changes to that building yes we would accommodate for if they were to have interest we would certainly accommodate their construction requirements okay so um if a retailer were to approach you and say the the current size of the space was not conducive you would give them um an incentive to occupy the space like for instance um the layout of the building is 15 ft tall for the roof and it needs to be 19 ft how is your team addressing that well then we would raise the roof for that tenant as part of the Redevelopment that's correct the same way that we would cut the depth of the building that I had mentioned okay so when you're so um okay and so has your team done a market analysis or or and how much the cost would be to improve that space to bring in what current retail wants in a space because your the current Kmart space is outdated um as opposed to asking for a variance for residential retail are they making more money as an incentive to bring in res a rental uh or is it or is it compar narative uh I apologize for the delay I just wanted to make sure had a chance there absolutely the the cost Factor isn't really an issue if we have a tenant or series of tenants to take over and do something with that building in the world of retail that we live in you don't take a building and build it to a particular exterior specification without meeting the needs of the tenant that you're marketing to we can show renderings and elevations the tenants are sophisticated enough to understand how that works they get what is referred to as architectural drawings for the interior and exterior elevations that would show what their prototype would look like in that building so yes we have done that okay is that prototype in those uh renderings available to the public no so if if I were to search and I wanted to open a retail space I wouldn't be able to see that this Kmart site might be conducive to my needs well you could you could there it's yeah I mean if you're a retailer looking for this there's a couple different ways to do that you can go through the media uh doing that it's different platforms like Co Star Loop net that show availability this property is listed on those properties as well on those sites as well um typically a retailer such as a TJ Maxx that somebody mentioned has a local brokerage team that handles their expansion that understands exactly what they're looking for what their needs are and knows the market and they're sophisticated enough to understand that a building of this can be changed could be modified to fit their needs if they had interest here that would not be an issue because we could fit their needs the way this building is the problem is is that the location doesn't fit their needs right so you've said a couple times in your testimony and to other people that are you know that came up to the podium that um like just give you an example that the uh pickle ball court may not fit in this space because of the columns that are currently in the building but yet you did offer the fact that the the space could be um fixed or or changed to meet those needs but yet on this test now you are changing it to say that it could be so I'm I'm a little confused by that no I was explaining the challenges that doesn't mean that they're not able to be overcome and if a tenant a pickle ball tenant that is the right tenant sizewise and so forth has interest here we can accommodate that the problem is that we don't have a pickle ball tenant that's interested in being here right now even though we have pursued them okay well as a resident I am drawing my own conclusion that it's very concerning that that I don't feel like Levan is pursuing we're not uh taking statements okay I'll have to come back for that but I I feel like they're not doing your job to to bring in you're sneaking it in regardless we're not taking it now please was a good try the members of the zoning board my name is John Park I'm a resident hello yep Steve members of the zoning board my name is John Park I live on 510 Hamilton Street I'm a member of the Chamber of Commerce I also run two businesses in Franklin Township Korean barbecue grill please come check us out as well as as well as a little honors daycare a low income daycare right on Hamilton Street Building I know Lev's property very well I grew up in this town I used to sorry you have to stop turning away from the mic and speak right into the mic they she needs to be able to hear you yeah work I used to go I I I used to love the Kmart I went school shopping there every every September right before I started school so I found memories of that shopping center so I just had very specific technical questions you said currently the the town hall the the space is 375 ft wide right 315 ft 315 ft wide in order to attract a national anchor tenant you need to get it up to 500 ft wide approximately for those Home Depot types that I Goa and you said if we expanded it it would go into the street the other way right technically yes but couldn't you expand it the other way we have tenants that are in those buildings next to us well I mean my my friend Peter here was attending in one of those spots right next to it and then you guys asked him to move to a different spot in order to clear that space out didn't you we did yep so now aren are there clarify that was also something that was good for Peter as well yep I mean it was great for Peter he's very happy but uh I mean but now there's no tenants on the other side of of that space because you've moved them out right on the Kmart space you said yep in the Kmart space that's correct so now there is space to expand that way to to attract those National tenants no okay that's interesting you said that um you've been Mass marketing you've been Mass marketing and you've been trying all these things to lease out the space right would part of your activities be Fielding calls from Brokers to Fielding calls from brokers in order to lease out the space like if a broker was interested I could call your office and you would call them back most certainly so I mean I have a friend here his name is Nick Deo I think most people in this Township know him he's a broker he represents a lot of commercial tenants including myself and he's told me that he's called you a couple times and you haven't called him [Applause] back let's make sure we stick to questions and and wasn't that a great the is there a reason why you haven't called back someone else there wasn't his now that was fine but it's it's time to move on to a different subject or be done with your questions because he didn't testify uh to those issues and well he said he was Fielding calls just one more question because I feel like um so I mean I had I have a friend named Bill grippo he was on the CH he's on the board of education I know that there's a huge demand for pre kindergarten especially in this Township in which we could get a ton of federal funds to support those pre kinger Garten um activities couldn't we have have you reached out to Bill grippo about potentially having a pre kindergarten that space I don't know if I reached out to Bill or not again I oversee the leasing so I have other people there so I can't say they have or have not okay no no further [Applause] questions good evening board good evening my name is Vanessa Davenport my name is Vanessa Davenport can you hear me now okay my name is Vanessa Davenport I live 211 in learnington way in Franklin Township I noted on your website that it's that you um talk about industrial office and ril space and I wanted to know if this is your first foray into residential space maybe yes it is and could that be why you're pushing the residential side rather than the commercial side rather than the retail side that's not accurate I'm not pushing that one way or the other I'm pushing commercial more than anything else that's my responsibility what's your experience in the residential side though that would think he just mentioned his he is testifying to the retail efforts or the efforts to attract retail not residential that will come up under another witness okay then I'll hold my question thank you Mr singer don't you have an application um approved for um town homes on Cedar Grove like three or four years ago no okay sorry not that I'm aware of though I I'll jump into that there was a piece of property that Levan had on Cedar Grove uh that they did get approved and then they sold that to a developer there Linda Powell 22 buffer Drive um I just have some points of clarification things that I didn't understand you talked about the width of the store it's not based on square footage the needs of these bigger stores it's just based on width because obviously you know I understand the point of not wanting to expand a facility out onto JFK Boulevard um although it looks like the apartment pictures I saw were doing almost that but there's a lot of parking you know you talked about making it shorter in length isn't it also possible to make it longer in length the building to make it more square footage that would be counterintuitive to what ret looks for they don't look for a depth even that what's existing now the depth of the building if we took it out into the parking lot would expand that depth and that would make it less attractive to retail so they're only they're only interested in wide stores not long stores it's not square footage they're interested in square footage and that has a combination to do of of width and depth with being one of the very important factors because they require a minimum square footage in terms of their Frontage for their facade for their trade hi I'm back again Nicole Pride normally you're only going to get one shot at a witness but but thank you for your grace I appreciate it there's there's two things one um I just need for myself just greater Clarity so when the gentleman was here and he talked about some of the vacant retail that exists now that give you more flexibility to reconfigure the footprint of your building to accommodate new retail can you just explain why that's not a possibility or maybe I missed it I just don't understand I'm sorry I didn't understand the question okay Beyond Kmart there's other vacant retail space so the example given was that Venus has moved their location so the and if if I understand it correctly so Venus Jewelers where they were before that is now vacant space is that correct that is correct there's no there's no tenant that's slated to go there that's correct and so there's other vacant spaces there does that give you greater room and flexibility to accommodate a big box retailer to come in that's the question I I think the answer is no uh there's other vacancy in the strip that butts up against the essentially butts up against the Kmart box that would be impacted by trying to expand that building outward if you're looking at the building left so just to make sure I understand what you're saying let's just say you don't move into the parking space but just looking at the footprint of the vacant spaces that you have now that are next to the the old Kmart building all of that combined mind does not give you the flexibility to attract a new big box retailer it does not no okay and then is it possible I don't know if you've done this already is there a documentation that shows who you've reached out to and what their feedback has been just so that I feel like for myself and like the chatter that I hear here seems like um we need some type of good faith documentation that shows that the best effort was being made to be able to bring in retail um and so this process would go I think even better for you if you were able to show documentation I reached out to this store this is the feedback that they got and just to show us who's been contacted and who hasn't and then sorry last statement um question you mean question question question and is there any way publicly for us to see if your leasing fees or your leases are competitive with other shopping centers so I I think what I struggle with too is given the the density of our town already and the location that it does seem you know from a lay person standpoint that it is a very appealing and attractive space for retailers but if we see other plazas being built and other plazas getting those retailers then to me it makes me think that maybe you're not as competitive with the other shopping centers that we see in other towns and so is there any way for us to see how what you charge how that compares to other [Applause] plazas sorry I didn't want to delay you that do what you have to do I get it no there was a couple of questions I think you had in there U one was are we competitive the answer is yes there is a way for you to understand that by by talking to The Brokerage community and the way that works uh we we do offer I'm sorry so when you say I'm sorry just I want to be very clear so when you say can can he at least finish his questions uh answers I just I I wouldn't be able able to comprehend the rest if I didn't get the first part of the statement so I just needed a clarifying point I'm sorry but go ahead and then I'll try to remember go commissions are offered as an incentive to the Brokers that represent those tenants and our commissions are at or above market so that's pretty clear um the other thing that you mentioned is is that you know about attracting those tenants I mean it it should be noted that the tenants are the ones that make the decisions to where they want to be and where they should be that is what I was referring to in my statement when they talk about cannibalization studies they understand their business they understand their market and as much as we may want them there which we do they do not want to be there that is the simple answer to it yeah no I get that I I mean that's the bottom line for you I I think my question is from where I sit there may be other reasons other than traffic or other things that they consider where it comes down to the bottom line and so my question was is there a way for us to see is there some website any public documentation to see how the leases or the the rates the fees for no retailers in your Plaza and another Plaza that doesn't exist okay thank you nor in any other Plaza yeah got it Nick de Maguro 18 neot place and so I had one question but now standing there I've developed it to three so my first question is you also own and manage the north brunic shopping center where there's a McDonald's that's correct okay so the McDonald's that's there which is the drive-thru that we're creating here at the kmar shop in center with the two lanes what do they pay in rent I'm not sure that's a matter for this it will let me let me just go with this a little bit you're the leasing supervisor right so level of detail appropriate I think I think we should stick to the testimony and questions relative about rental abilities for that shopping center so what do they pay in rent I don't think when answer that question okay so let me repas question on a second you're you're asking him I'm not a real estate agent or an expert or anything like that but my version of Common Sense tells me it's a little difficult to pre to compare a McDonald's on eastn Avenue in rutr Plaza with a McDonald's in North Brunswick That's Where Shopping Center it's not relevant to what we're talking about here it is it is relevant becauseas it or ask another question it is relevant because we're trying to figure out whether his rent is competitive let's compare Apple's apples okay you're comparing stores in two different towns into two very very different locations okay okay ask your next question please let's rephrase that okay let's rephrase that are the rents competitive in both the towns yes okay and my other question is what is the uh standard work letter for a tenant for the Kmart Shopping Center there's no standard work letter they're all very tenant specific every tenant has their own needs and that's why they have their work letter okay thank you [Applause] sure hello my name is Adrien St below 30 you have to say your name a little bit louder and slower Goa my name and closer is I germs louder Adrian stos better yeah 30 foxford Drive um it's not like me to not have pen and paper I always have a pen usually paper so please bear with me while I get my thoughts together um each person who spoke brought up a lot of a lot of important points points I have been a resident in this wait now what you're supposed to be doing now is asking a question I'm getting to that okay so I been in this resident in this neighborhood for 31 years and you say that this is public and everyone could know about what's going on here meanwhile the only reason I'm here today is because someone put an letter in my uh door so how are we supposed to be able to find out more about this that's going on first secondly if you're all about the people here and what's best for Franklin Township which seems like that's not what we want and you're not being successful with getting um the tenants have you thought about maybe selling your lease and maybe getting another um another person in so that you can not be stressed but you can't get pickle ball or um something else that might bring jobs as opposed to Bringing more people here more traffic less opportunity um so my first question did you get it what what was the first question well you had me speak louder and slower so that you can document so did you get it what is your question okay I had two um I'll go I'll skip to the second one because the first one like I'm really really this has moved me a lot um I moved here from the city so that I can be in a residential area a suburban area not to be surrounded by ask the question well I did and since he didn't remember I have to and I didn't have my paper I'm just working it out if you cannot find another retail business that would benefit Franklin Township and the residents here have you considered perhaps selling so that someone else could try that's Financial okay go go ahead no we haven't considered selling so is there a reason for that I I think he's answered the question Mr chairman question was have you considered selling the answer was no we have not considered selling yes and I AC he's an employee of Lev he is not the person who makes the decisions at 11 so as an employee who directs who speaks directly to those above you could you perhaps talk to those in in control and say hey the people of FR this is not this is not asking questions on based on his testimony I would be how can I find out rather than having someone someone put a note in my door to let me know when this is um when meetings are going to occur how can I find out Franklin countship website got it thank you okay we will close to the public next witness thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman our next witness will be Scott Turner from Menlo engineering I believe Council will want to swear him in Mr Turner can you raise your right hand please do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do Mr attorney can you uh repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please Scott Turner t r n e r um Mr weski you want to qualify your witness thank you Council uh Mr Turner uh will you please uh first go through your educational background your lenser and then your experience in testifying in front of zoning boards or even in fact if you've testified in front of this board let me ask the questions how long have you been an engineer approximately 25 years license you have a current New Jersey license I do and have you practiced before boards before yes I have I think you've been before this board before I have been he's accepted thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr chairman Mr teror if you would please run through this presentation uh of the site plan that we've submitted to the board and uh if you may while you're going through it you know there was a letter both from CME and from the municipal planner to the extent that your testimony can address any of their comments that would be helpful sure I can do that uh I put a uh an exhibit up on the screen it is titled the east in at Rucker's Plaza it is we just Mark the exhibits please so this will be A1 this is A1 and just tell us what it is Mr Turner the east at Rucker Plaza existing conditions exhibit dated March 20th 2024 it is an exhibit of the existing conditions uh by way of an aerial uh photograph okay just very quickly for the record uh the property is known as block 385 lot 2.07 it contains 27.4 Acres it has 1155 ft of Frontage along JFK Boulevard and 970 ft along eastn Avenue uh just for orientation purposes here uh we're going to consider North to be straight up it'll just be a little easier for direction purposes uh Easton Avenue is located up at the top of the sheet JFK Boulevard is located on the leand side of the sheet and then the property itself is kind of highlighted in this uh whitish uh line type that I'm currently surrounding there so this is obviously known as the Ruckers uh Plaza shopping center it's located in the GB General business district uh on the property are located four buildings uh there's a McDonald's fast food restaurant being uh constructed in the northwest corner uh the Stop and Shop Supermarket is in the northeast corner and in between both of those buildings uh closest to eastn Avenue is a an existing uh bank with drive-throughs and then we have the uh existing multi-tenant retail building that's located on the south east corner of the property and then the building in question the Kmart building that's located down at the South West Corner uh that existing Kart building uh contains 7,600 ft of footprint um area uh the property is accessed by way of two driveways one off of JFK Boulevard it is a uh a right in a right out and uh uh I believe it also allows for uh lefts as well uh the eastn Avenue driveway is a right in right out driveway and that are the uh that is the two main access points into uh the center itself uh the property has 1,000 257 existing parking spaces uh the property is surrounded by a variety of uses uh there are Garden Apartments and Tow houses to the uh South and West uh a Wendy's fast food uh establishment and the dinr canal state park is located uh just up to the top of the sheet uh to the north across the street eastn avenue and then we have another shopping center to the east uh which also has access uh onto eastn Avenue move to the we can mark this exhibit as A2 if you'd like and just describe what A2 is sure A2 is a uh rendering the eastn at Rucker's Plaza overall plan exhibit dated March 20th 2024 again it's a uh aerial image with the proposed Ed a site plan overlaying on top so the The Proposal as as you are all aware is to demolish the existing uh Kmart Building located in the southwest corner and replace it with a four-story apartment building which is identified in this tan color uh which I'm outlining with the cursor that building uh will uh again total 250 475 Square ft and it will include a small basement uh with resident storage mechanical rooms and then first floor will be uh um the amenities packages and then we have the residential floors above uh and in behind the front of the new building are these uh out coves that are in between the two fingers uh that will uh Encompass the other recreational spaces uh that are uh proposed on the property uh the building itself will be approximately 47 ft high and it'll have a footprint area of 62485 squ Ft so significantly smaller in footprint area from the from this from the Kmart building uh the building will be set back 130.7 ft from JFK Boulevard uh it will be set back 660 ft uh from Easton Avenue and 1581 ft from the rear property the uh there will be 200 units Within this new building the rear property from the rear property rear okay rear yes I I I don't like the interrupt here in the middle of this can you you gave the setback from Kennedy Boulevard and a setback from Franklin green the rear property how's that compare with what exists when I'm done with my next section I'll grab my plan and I'll let you know what that number is so the building itself will include 200 units uh those units will be uh broken down into 69 one bedroom units 123 two-bedroom units and eight three-bedroom units uh 20% of the units or 40 in total will be set aside as affordable beyond the limits of the uh the new uh Residential Building within the space of the multi-tenant retail component uh we are proposing to uh provide some additional uh area in front of that building uh by way of pedestrian accessways new sidewalks by pulling the driveway up a little bit further away and it will provide some opportunity for uh some outdoor dining and or seating areas uh this this this building will also receive uh facade improvements uh that will be discussed by by the applicants architect uh the site itself in order to uh provide uh what's needed for this new uh residential component uh will include a uh realignment of the internal access driveway particularly the driveway that comes in from Easton Avenue uh currently that driveway came came up into the site and then continued on a path that was straight down towards the the Kmart building itself and what we've done is we've taken that driveway and realigned it to allow for the residential component to kind of stand on its own in terms of uh the parking spaces and uh and anything else that would be going on with respect to that area uh the other parking lots that uh are there to support the Stop and Shop and the and the other retail components will will in essence uh remain as they currently exist today with the exception of additional landscaped Islands to provide some additional landscape enhancements and improvements and to provide some uh additional EV charging stations that are stations that are required um we've also provided some additional uh significant pedestrian circulation improvements uh we are providing new sidewalk connections from JFK Boulevard uh into the property as well as from Easton Avenue up that main driveway and into the site and sidewalk connections from the apartment buildings and the other commercial buildings uh all of them will sort of be all connected together together and allow anyone to get from one space to another by way of uh the sidewalk components that are being added to the site plan itself uh the the building the the new building uh we have a a conventional parking lot in the front uh of that uh building and we have a row of EV charging spaces that are along the JFK uh Boulevard uh side of the property uh this building will also have a dedicated uh drop off and pickoff L a pickup Lane that's uh located off of the driveway that runs across the the front uh so as not to um disturb any traffic within that area so the in addition to the the the parking components and the driveway components and pedestrian uh I had mentioned that we're also providing some additional significant additional Landscaping by way of either new islands or adding Islands in or or uh modifying the islands that are currently there with either new landscaping or or or you know things of that sort uh we're also adding in a new um open space uh you know area that's uh could be used for events that's located up or just off the northwest corner of the front of the new building again all located within what I'll call the residential side of the shop of the center itself uh so that's been uh added to this plan and we've of course added uh some significant Landscaping along the JFK uh Boulevard perimeter as well as some along the rear uh there are some encumbrances in that area that uh prohibit us to do landscaping in certain areas and I'll I'll detail that a little bit uh in in in just a little bit uh the overall site numbers for parking uh on site now will be 1,100 so we've reduced the parking from 1,257 to 1,100 and that includes the installation of 88 EV charging stations scattered throughout the property uh there is a total of 1,7 parking spaces required for the entire Center including the residential component uh we are also adding uh two new uh Monument signs off of the driveway coming in from JFK Boulevard uh they are Small Monument signs 58 Square ft each 5.7 ft Max height and 10.8 ft Max maximum width uh for landscaping uh like I had mentioned we've provided a a a significant improvement over what's currently on the property in my opinion uh we are proposing to install 121 deciduous trees 16 evergreen trees 44 flowering trees 830 shrub plantings and thousands of ground cover plantings uh the tree replacement um has been satisfied uh There are 16 trees required based on the tree replacement calculations and we are providing 137 trees of qualifying size so we comply uh the lighting on site will be improved with LED pole and wall mounted fixtures uh which will all be in compliant with Municipal standards uh as you would imagine all the utilities that are required for the shopping center is there and available for extension into the residential component which includes sewer water Gas Electric telephone Etc storm water management we've provided um storm water management upgrades as needed to comply with njd standards uh We've also complied with the DNR Canal commission standards as well for storm water management uh we're providing additional drainage inlets underground piping uh two new water quality structures that are required by the D Delaware and R Canal commission the DNR Canal uh and uh we've been through um an earlier review from them we have to resubmit the plan uh for for another as an update to the current approval uh but we've complied with their standards and and have gone through a review with them already so we are complying with ngdp standards water quality improvements and the overall net in coverage the impervious coverage on site uh is being reduced uh by 63,500 square ft so the 78.6% in perious coverage existing will be reduced to 73.2% and the overall building coverage will be reduced by 47,700 square ft which is 23% existing versus the 19 foot uh 19% proposed with the application so in terms of storm water management by virtue of us reducing impervious coverage we are significantly improving uh the uh the overall uh discharge from the property itself and providing the water quality enhancements that that are needed to comply with standards um what I'll just do very quickly just for the record is the variances that are required uh it does require a D1 use variance for the residential use within the GB Zone a D4 F variance uh 0.30 is permitted 0.23 is existing and and 0.35 is uh proposed and uh f is a floor area ratio requirement where we take the the flooor area gross on all floors not just footprint area all floors and that's what we how we calculate floor area ratio it's different than just a building coverage would which would be a footprint area divided by the property area this is taking all floors into account for f wait stop since you've sto to do a little explaining you you when I you tell me about f I don't I don't get the calculation cuz it sounds like something's missing is it what are you doing are you taking the footprint and dividing the footprint by the uh the square footage of the footprint by the total square footage of the floors in the building no you take the total square footage of all floor areas in all the buildings yeah and divide that number yeah by the lot area by the overall property area oh okay that that's what that ratio that's how that's calculated all right I the the second part of it what it divided by was missing from your first explanation thank you you had said that you were going to finish something up and then you were going to give us a chance to ask some questions sure are are are we at a point where we can ask some questions we will be in approximately 30 seconds okay I'll let you go then thank you but I'm going to hold you to that all right so we got through the D4 the D6 height variance is 30 ft permitted 47 ft is proposed uh we have C variances as well the number of freestanding signs two are allowed uh I'm sorry two are existing we have five total proposed and that includes one for the McDonald's Center the previously approved sign for the McDonald's Center and then R2 so that gets us to the five uh we have a maximum sign area we're 25 squ ft is permitted and 58 Square ft is uh proposed for each individual sign building mounted signs we have uh two signs are proposed and the architect will explain uh in detail what they are and then finally is the impervious coverage which is uh 70% permitted 78.6% existing and 73.2% proposed and and that's the extent of the uh the variances required for the project um in addition to that we do have staff reports we have a staff report uh from Mark Healey uh director of planning dated February 14 2024 and his report uh requires uh testimony involving a lot of the variances and and that sort of thing and we have a planner that will do that uh any of the other uh engineering uh project related technical comments we agreed to comply with we're we're not seeking any uh relief from from that letter we have a letter from Cy Associates uh the town ship Engineers office dated February 27 2024 I did review that letter in detail as it's more relatable to what I uh am responsible for here I did have a discussion with Mr Mazy uh in advance of this meeting uh and uh just to ask a couple of questions and uh beyond that we agreed to comply with everything in his report as well okay okay we have we have traffic as well we have a traffic report February 29th 202 for they have no comments everything's been addressed we have a letter from the fire prevention uh Mr John house uh we agree to comply with his requirements as well and County of Somerset department of public health and safety uh we don't have any issue with what they're asking for in regards to applying for the pool permit and then we have a letter from uh the sustainability coordinator uh dated February uh 6 2024 um to the extent we can satisfy some of those comments we will certainly do that I there are comments in here that I believe I've already tested to uh testified to uh and addressed and anything else here that we can do to the extent possible we will agree to comply with and then we like Mr uh wisnoski already pointed out we had our meeting with the historic preservation advisory commission this week and uh they had asked us for some additional information which we will provide other than that I think we were uh the meeting was fairly favorable well I don't know about that was I think you were asked to consider a few design changes that kind of got blown off Mr chairman no they they didn't get blown off the representation was is that we would Prov them with we would address the requests they made uh but we obviously couldn't provide anything on that night right uh and we would we would have to go back to them with those addressing the you're going to address then uh potential brick facade they they had made uh requests about color about material about some designs and our architect said that and he they had also asked him to go and visit some other sites which he's going to do and then he's going to come up with a new rendering that tries to address to their satisfaction the concerns they rais slanted roofs things like that I can't say that he's going to address them all but he's going to address as many as possible understanding that a slanted roof sometimes then increases the height which then also has an impact on the DNR Canal because they have a height issue as well as the municipality so we're trying to address the aesthetic issues raised by the historic we didn't blow them off we said we would prepare and submit new plans to them one thing that uh struck me as I drove by there today uh the Mechanicals are they going to be on the roof they're going to be behind a parit so you won't see them from the ground okay the building that exists is very clearly visible from Kennedy Boulevard everything that's on the roof so I'm assuming that a 17t higher building will remedy part of that and uh parapets maybe the rest of it because it it's not a there there's some mature Landscaping there but uh what's on the roof of the Kmart building is very clearly visible not it's not attractive understood that's why we' like to take it down and put a different building up but Mr chairman we're going to address those I'm not going to testify we have an architect uh from The Architects office who's going to testify uh probably not tonight but um we will have him testify before this board but we we did make a commitment to the chair of the historic preservation advisory commission that we would come back with our efforts to satisfactorily address their design request the other thing is 78% impervious existing that's correct 70 is required that's correct you're at 73 and with all of this Landscaping removing buildings removing concrete parking why can't it get to 70 because we've already lowered 5% by reducing what we have that what the engineer says yeah I I agree I there's there's always a balance in terms of how much you can get rid of um because you need to make sure you adequately park it you provide the service driveways that are needed for the existing tenants for the new building um you know we we I I think we try to do as much as we can to balance what's permitted within the Zone versus what is existing and what we can do and you know we we have an opportunity to maybe reduce down uh you you know a few more parking spaces but we also got to be sensitive to the tenant needs that may have leases and certain agreements in place so we have to be mindful of where we take some additional pavement away we've always been pretty receptive to to uh banking parking there any option opportunities for parking not to be constructed but banked for later use which would count against lowering or count towards lowering impervious coverage but I I think generally when you bank it it's still counted towards your impervious coverage number but it it's not covered I understand no I understand we would still want the we would still seek the variance because if they ever did come and get built then we would be over what our allowable coverage would be based on an approval all right could you investigate we can look at that might be able to be banked you know we will we will look that Mr date and the the first question I shouldn't have interrupted you before but unfortunately that's the setbacks now sure the new ones how do they compare with the existing ones sure so the building uh the proposed setback from JFK build uh Boulevard uh proposed is 130.7 Ft 130.7 ft uh the existing building is setback 100 ft how much 100 ft so we're increasing the setback by 30.7 ft uh from easn Avenue it's generally the same around 660 ft uh from uh easn Avenue it uh it's proposed to be at 158.14301 facts conform to what what we require I'm only asking if it's if it's possible to maneuver to lower impervious coverage so the so the the front yard setback requirement is 20 ft and we're we're well in the what's considered the front yard in this building East Avenue E Avenue and they're both the front teally is a front as well Mr chairman they're both front yards kened and E yes so 20 ft is the E Avenue correct I'm not worried about the East Avenue right the rear yard I think is what you concerned with is maybe the rear Franklin 30 30 ft is permitted so there is some wiggle room terms of moving it a few feet decrease in perious coverage Mr chairman I I had raised a similar question in my report which is again understanding they are lowering the impervious um but they are asking still they're still above and there is a provision in our ordinance that allows well first of all you had mentioned the the land banking of parking which this board and the planning board has allowed in the past where the applicant has proven that the um you know perhaps the ordinance requirements are higher than the Practical needs um but in this case the applicant is actually proposing slightly more parking than than our ordinance actually um requires our ordinance requires 1100 and they're at 17 so they're a little bit over actually so my suggestion would be to the applicant perhaps this would be the traffic engineer when he or she testifies that they speak to the parking needs for the site and how much parking the applicant actually needs for the for the uses on the site um because I think that's an opportunity to get you know either a real reduction uh in terms of impervious coverage or at least a reduction in um you know in the form of of land bank parking spaces and for the public what that means is you know they show where they could provide the parking certain amount of parking but the in the short term they they basically leave it as grass or landscaping and in the event in the future it needs to get improved in my experience 95% of the time when when an applicant land Banks to spaces it stays open space and perpetuity because it's never needed thank you okay any other uh any board members with questions I I do have a question regarding the height of the building um I'm just wondering if since this is gener this is basically commercial uh area how how the look and feel that is for a four-story building in with the existing commercial buildings I I think the architect would be more appropriate or more suited to answer that question in terms of how he established how he set the facades up so do you do you think it was the architect that decided it was going to be a four-story building I I can't answer that question we get our direction from our client and they had me told us to design for four story building which is what we do I would assume that that's not just one person making that decision it's it's based on a number of factors I would I would presume okay wasn't Mr singer though he said he had nothing to do with that yeah I okay that's right um I'm sorry you were going to ask some more questions I didn't mean to jump in there no I just had the one question wouldn't that be the engineer though that would taking that no no I no the building we worry we we we deal with building Footprints we are generally given a footprint and what requirements are needed from an AR architect okay and that's how we lay that out on a site plan um now uh the what's this 134 trees you're going to install what's the caliper size on those we're installing how big are these basically what I'm asking that was quite a pile of paper you sent so the the the deciduous trees uh range uh basically 2 and 1/2 to 3 in in caliber when they're uh planted and their planted height is 12 to 14 ft for the most part good okay uh the evergreen trees of course are uh planted at uh a little bit lower 6 to 7 feet in high uh planting height they'll grow to 15 to 20t tall and then the flowering trees or 9 to 10 foot uh planting height but the the sigil trees to me right that's what I was thinking of what what about the the uh the Evergreens what type are they the evergreens are uh dragon lady Holly and Nelly Stevens Holly oh good other question I I do have a question for Mark um affordable affordable units were mentioned as a Township where are we With Our obligation and and any insight on the 25 requirements well it's it's it's a good question I where are we as we stand right now is that uh our third route o obligation is satisfied um the question really is where do we stand in the future uh the state just came out with new legislation within the last month um that's basically going to require the township to do another fair share plan within the next year or so um and we are going to have an obligation and because of our size the obligation is going to be significant so we will have a need for affordable housing questions okay um you went kind of fast uh for me anyway uh CME now you said you were going to uh take care of all that what they were asking for that is correct okay yes how about uh the fire prevention yes we you're going to take care of that correct how about the uh public health and safety we agree okay and my one last thing is what about Tera Heaton from substan uh sustainability coordinator The Memo from that yes that's the one uh that I what I testify to is that to the extent we can accommodate her requests we will do so and and that's right now that's what I can tell you uh you know so that really tell me anything though well we can we can go through that letter if I think that one you should and just for the record she's writing that on behalf of the environmental commission so you know I think maybe some of these technical reports it may be sufficient to say you'll work it out with staff but I think the environmental commission's comments I think are more I'll just say open-ended if you will their considerations so I think um I think you need to address those to the board sure we'll do that and again I am referring to uh The Memo from uh Miss Tara Kenyan uh dated February 20 February 6 2024 the first bullet point is uh recommending the investigation of feasibility for solar panels on the roof a green roof cool roof technology or at a minimum a make solar ready roof uh and I I have been told that uh the building will be uh make ready for solar panels in the future but there's no intent to install them at this current time but the building can accommodate that if needed per second bullet is pervious pavement is recommended for the parking and interior driveways uh we do not recommend uh perious uh Paving especially in a hight traffic area such as this uh poorest Paving tends to tear apart rip apart and doesn't last long term and you wind up ripping it out and putting back regular Asphalt in the long term uh We've accommodated all of the requirements for storm water management which is when we would normally you know utilize that type of uh pavement section uh we don't need to do that because we comply with the standards uh the third bullet point is in regards to the impervious coverage I think we've covered that to the extent we can uh the fourth bullet point the environmental commission yes correct yeah I'll expand a little bit yes she's she's referring to the proposed impervious coverage at 73.2% which still exceeds the maximum uh permitted uh as we've discussed we will look into areas that we could possibly do some land banking or add some additional Green Space to get us down as close or at 70% as much as we can do we will agree to do to take a look at that the exist uh environmental commission acknowledges the inclusion of the required Make Ready EV charging it is recommended that EV uh charging and make ready parking spaces alternate by one parking space throughout the parking lot uh example is you know 135 and prepared as Make Ready parking stations or have an EV charging station installed uh I'm not exactly sure what she's asking for you generally will line them up so that cars can charge in pairs because the charging stations will have two charging stations so you want them right next to one another so that's sort of how we have this established at this point in time um and I think that accommodates what she's looking for is to be able to allow multiple users to easily use the Chargers without having to wait so dual charging stations can accommodate two parking spaces at one time uh the next bullet point the environmental commission recommends the use of native and or pollinator plants that also provide storm water management we agree we'll we'll review it and comply with that standard uh anti idling sign should be placed at various locations I I don't believe we have an issue with providing that signage I think we can do that with you know relative ease second page bike storage and bicycle repair stations are REM recommended at various locations so bike uh I I think we can agree to take a look at uh providing bicycle racks uh potentially in areas that we think they would be utilized uh will agree to do that I I've never seen a bicycle repair station so I don't think we would accommodate that but bicycle racks I think are something that we can we can accommodate and the last one is the Environmental commission requests that the applicant provide a list of the Amendments made to the plans and supporting documents with all future resubmissions and we don't have an issue with doing that okay it's you can tell me if I'm incorrect but it's my understanding you have to go back get a certificate or certification from historic preservation so how you how your review of what they're asking turns out I guess will basically be up to them um I'm comfortable letting them deal if it gets to that point letting them deal with establishing what historic presence they want this project present any other questions I want to take a minute to look at uh the sidewalks um I keep looking correct right thing correct I I'm moving it I promise that was not on purpose Mr Shephard Mr Shephard Emil says he cannot hear you you have to bring use the mic at the end I got it testing testing all right good so now it looks like we do make our way around to the food store correct right okay and this way we make our way around to the the little stores over here correct the Dollar Tree the vacant and the Crunch fitness and whatever else is here now we have two other things that are out there and since this is supposed supposed to be like a a setup where people don't have to leave the uh the premises to do things where's the I I don't even see I don't even there we go here's the here's the bank right no sidewalks to the bank are there I think we need sidewalks to the bank don't we we we we do not provide a sidewalk to the bank directly so that would be something we would consider taking a look at the ad okay and the only restaurant that we have do we provide sidewalks there looks like we do correct yes there's a sidewalk connection to McDonald's good then the only one that's not taken care of is the uh is the bank and I'm going to get you for this really this is the last time you're I'm sure I just need one other clarification when you refer to the Kmart building as X number square feet are you including the attached shops with that no just what's just the Kart building itself the old Chinese restaurant and the present Venus that's extra Square that's extra square footage not included in my number that I uh provided to you for the Kmart building footprint it's still not enough extra square feet to enlarge the the main big box building to the standards that were testified that are needed I think that your rendering up there kind of points out a little bit how the building can't be very easily expanded toward and it can't be expanded toward the shopping center it's got limited space behind it and if you go forward toward eastn Avenue you're taking out parking that really says more in a picture than the a little clearer anyway than the testimony was about the uh constraints when it comes to enlarging it to make the space to make it a marketable a different marketable building without actually impacting a lot of the the uh site that's correct any other questions uh the questions about parking spaces I think I read somewhere there were about 1100 total parking spots correct and how many of those are going to be e there there were some about multiple charging 88 there's 88 St how many are there now I I don't know I I do believe there are at least a couple I think and I I don't even want to say because I don't want to misrepresent cuz I'm not sure and those will be for the residents as well as for the correct yeah they're scattered throughout the entire property other there's I have one more real simple one um 200 units that's a quite a few units um has there been accommodations for move in and move out loading spaces let's say that again I'm sorry um for the the Residential Building obviously have accommodations been made for tenants to move in and out a loading space yeah if when when the architect testifies you'll see on what he presents there's a spot uh on the Kennedy Boulevard side of the building that's indicated for that how many parking spaces are in the kind of dedicated what you called before the the residential enclosed area I don't know if I have total right how many are in that correct I I don't know if I have that number I will tell you the number of parking spaces required for the residential component is 387 so I would I I'm going to take a stab and say that there was at least 387 uh probably a few more but that's probably about the number okay thank you any other questions I presume you've taken the handicap situation in effect right I'm sorry sir I presume that you've taken the handicap situation in effect right absolutely yes sir we we comply completely with the all the Ada standards anything from you you have two questions um are any of the area that's uh more conducive for the residential is that going to be restricted only for use for the residents or is it just going to be open in terms of the amenity package would would there be signage that says for Resident residential parking only or is the whole parking uh the whole parking lot open I I I I don't know Mark I'm not sure uh I would say I would certainly think that there would never be a need for somebody that wants to go to Stop and Shop to park over in this section there's ample parking for Stop and Shop the bank as well as all those retail components so uh I I don't know if we've gotten to that level of detail honestly in terms of whether or not they're going to be restricted okay and the other question is you said you were going to comply with sei's report correct um but they did make one comment comment number 24 where they talk about um reviewing the JFK uh entrance for a a traffic signal are you agreeing to that no we are agreeing that the study the warrant analis would be done okay and is the traffic engineer going to speak to that to some degree yes okay all right thank you any others yeah I have a question um so what's the maximum occupancy like you said 200 um units so how many I I don't know that that's beyond my area of expertise um do we how many people will stay there approximately and the point I'm trying to sorry go ahead no no it's okay so the bedroom count as I testified to before will be uh 69 one bedroom units 123 2bedroom and 8 3bedroom sure because I'm trying to get a correlation between the earlier testimony that for some like shop right or Stop and Shop to survive it needs more people in there so if this is the answer for that then there has to be some kind of account that it sustains Stop and Shop right that's be that's beyond me uh I I'm just here to do the engineering I'm sure possibly other uh professionals here and and who's going to do some testimony can help answer that question yeah I I don't think that's a question that the civil engineer can answer I'm sure there's somebody from their team that can answer that question how many basically the question is how many residents do they expect based on the 200 units and the bedroom count so I'm sure somebody can answer that in the future so exactly so that was my pertinent question of what's the maximum capacity of that place of of what place I'm sorry residential building I I don't know that that's not I think Mr winki heard the question so I think somebody else will there will be somebody who will come up probably not tonight but uh will'll testify to that we'll try to answer it and I just want to add a point of clarification uh the EV parking spaces are Make Ready parking spaces if I didn't clarify that before I want to make sure it's on the record that they are make ready parking spaces what does that mean so what that means is that all of the infrastructure the conduit the underground conduit is put in and installed so that in the future the electric and the physical charging stations can be placed online as required by law uh they don't have to rip up the parking uh and they can easily make those connections what is that time frame for those to come online I I I don't have that law with me uh St right think a st% 5 10 15 years something like that yes it's it's in order of that magnitude okay if there's no other board questions we'll be opening to the public but I'm going to say uh very clearly upfront the last question will be at 10 o'clock so if you have questions for the engineer based on his [Music] testimony waiting to hear Mr Turner uh John Mccalla five Webster Road Somerset can you hear excellent so Mr Turner thank you very much for the detailed explanation and all of the uh the work that you've done here did you do I wasn't here for it did you do the uh McDonald's no design no I did not you did not okay so the rendering that's on here is taken from another engineering firm correct okay did you uh start the engine in on this contingent upon McDonald's no all right do you know when you started the engineering on this the design what year 2019 is when we started working on this project okay it was on and off since then and the reason why is because the individual who was there beforehand was saying that they're working very hard on keeping it a commercial residence but if you start started the uh engineering on 2019 I think that might be a little bit they overlap a little bit too much you know have you started any of the procedures for um getting any of the uh uh uh um uh what are they called uh engineering uh leeway and and uh um uh dos and all of that work that's going on so the Outside Agency permitting uh was started back uh when we first initially prepared the project uh DNR Canal commission has an application that's been uh applied for we need to submit new plans uh in the appropriate time uh to continue their review uh we have a Somerset County planning board application in the approval is pending we have a review letter that we need to address uh The Soil Conservation District we already had again when we first uh initially brought this project to the board we proceeded with those Outside Agency permits but we'll have to update them sure well was your firm involved at all in any of the warehouses that have been going up so precipitously in this County I don't think that matters all right um were you aware um that in the past um um let's say a year that they were considering a four lane Highway for JFK not that I'm aware of I was not aware of that you're not aware of that particular traffic study and that's for the traffic people so we can leave that alone okay thank you very much I appreciate that board I appreciate [Applause] that so uh my name is Bill grippo g p and it's 199 Pier Street Somerset first of all I want to thank you for your service Zing board I'm a I'm not here as a member of the Board of Ed tonight but I thought my job was rough you got a tough job up there and Bob you're the same Charming Man that I knew years ago thank you so my question is um just one my questions I said my name my uh question is about um obviously the Youth of our town and safety of that parking lot if you could explain a little clearer and maybe Bob could get back up and do his thing with the map um going into the parking lot from JFK making that right turn or you know to get in there coming in from Eastern Avenue and going out from Eastern Avenue you mentioned a separate line for the uh cars that for the apartment designated just for the apartment people so is it I think I heard before something about a traffic light uh just as a statement that parking lot right now is like a checkerboard and it's a mess and and so uh I'm wondering how you can U put Integrity into I'm worried about look here's what I'm worried about it's a statement I'm worried about kids who work at McDonald's kids who run to McDonald's after school and use that place as a um uh as another a a drag lot you know we all grew up at hot dog stands right and so the cars are going to be coming in and out of there what is the responsibility for the for the board for the council for these guys to assure the safety of drivers without putting speed humps all over the place so is my question clear I'm worried about the safety of entering and exiting that with with Apartments I mean I I think want the traffic guy I'm not giv I think opinion on the on the program I just want to know how our kids especially our teenagers are going to be well let's Mr chairman iair this not forget traffic he talked about lines going in and out so you got to explain that okay let's I think the civil engineer can explain certainly from the site plan perspective yeah I think if he could comp provide a comparison to the board to the existing situation and the exhibit that's on here of whether this site plan is more or less safe from I think a vehicular movement perspective and maybe pedestrian perspective between the existing and the proposed is that basically what you're asking at this point basically and and I'm asking if if McDonald's and this is not your your perview but if McDonald's has given any thought to the cars coming in and out just for hamburgers forget about who lives there so let's have the civil engineer again he's speaking to this site plan let's speak to let's have him speak to the on-site circulation comparing to the existing and the proposed and then there may be some other traffic related issues like the site going on to JFK Etc that's probably going to be better explained by the traffic engineer but let's have Mr Turner explain the on-site that's the one thing I'm not going to let go of I just want to make sure that we have a safe plan sure so I I I put back up on the screen exhibit A1 which is the existing conditions exhibit and you can see on this plan here this is the driveway that comes in off of JFK Boulevard it comes up into the site and then there's a four-way intersection at this what I I call the main driveway in which is the driveway coming in from Easton Avenue it comes in and as I had previously testified to comes up to the intersection with the driveway off JFK but then it continues across and comes straight up into the front of the you go back to that McDonald's driveway how did they get into mdon Donald's from Eastern Avenue well that that's that's what's proposed but right now in the existing condition this is the driveway leading in from eastn Avenue a straight run up to the front of Kmart and then we have the uh the driveway that comes in off of JFK Boulevard uh which will not be changed with respect to this application this first section of driveway from eastn Avenue does not get changed with respect to this new application it's beyond that is where changes occur and the one thing that you do not have on this particular project is you don't have updated uh regulatory signage striping uh you know crosswalks accessibility sidewalks and all of those things that are going to be incorporated into the new plan uh which I flipped over now A2 here's the driveway off E Avenue the intersection with JFK driveway and then once we go further south into the site heading toward WS the rear of the property or the the the new residential building uh this is where we we took that existing driveway and turned it easterly to keep it away from the front of the new residential building Take Me In from CED Gro uh from JFK Boulevard I'm coming down JFK from St Mias I want to go in and get a hamburger where's my car going you you can come in off a JFK Boulevard and then you make the either if you coming in off JFK you make the left into these three driveway openings uh that have been designed and approved for McDonald's are there cars parked there there there is a parking lot in that location yes and that's not being touched with this application that's all there per the approved Plans by another engineer we did not touch it it's here for informational purposes just to demonstrate how it interacts with the rest of the site plan um again with respect to the other improvements that were being made on this property with this application in my mind in my opinion and their significant safety improvements and enhancements is the fact that we are improving all of the signage all the striping in accordance with current mutcd standards which is uh the uh uniform Transportation code and we're also providing uh significant improvements to the overall pedestrian um enhancements and circulation on the property which provides for a safer experience by adding the sidewalks alongside the driveways and connecting them all to all of the various uh components within the shopping center and that's that's absent so when you come in off of Eastern Avenue now coming from U 287 there's a wall that goes up that wall obviously is right there that wall is obviously going to stay there on the other side correct this this is an existing wall that will remain yeah and there'll be a new wall installed on the uh what I'll call the Westerly side of the driveway in order to get this new sidewalk installed running up the driveway from eastn Avenue so that's a two two lane driveway then in and out it's an in andout driveway correct and I will point out we do have a we had a review by the uh Franklin Township Police traffic safety Bureau we have a letter from them dated February 29th 20124 that they've reviewed uh the caption uh plans uh which are the plans that the board has in front of them and they have no further comments so I answer this question um I'm trying not to make a statement this is hard for me uh the um 30 kids come in after school 20 cars come in how how does that how does that work how how do we how do we enter that and I'm not just talking kids you're going to have residents coming home from work you know all that kind of stuff is this about the McDonald how do that's a how do we fit people in that very clustered leftand corner where there's so much room elsewhere and that's this is not your problem because McDonald's well just say Mr chairman I would have put a nice Italian there but that's ability to answer questions about something that's already been approved and not part of this application it's on the property obviously but this has already been approved by the municipality yeah no I understand that I'm not I'm not pointing fingers here I'm trying to figure out how to keep people safe there's a number of other people that would like to ask questions I understand would it be appropriate to ask to look at additional traffic com measures speed tables we we can certainly we can certainly take a look uh I believe the property is subject I'm I'm assuming to title 39 and for to the extent that that works uh but we can certainly take a look and I I will tell you look my my name and my license my professional license is on all of these plans and I would not have signed them I wouldn't be in front of you testifying under oath if I did not feel that this was a safe plan understood bottom line okay uh we'll take questions from the people who are presently in line and that's it okay kikas 3204 Enclave Circle in Somerset uh Mr Turner thank you for your testimony um could you please uh explain to us why the building does not include a basement which would eliminate the need for all these extra parking spaces the the basement doesn't contribute to the requirement for parking the basement is strictly for storage and mechanical yes I understand that but why didn't the Architects and the engineers include an underground parking um could it be as I hear from some of the residents that the reason why the plants as they stand do not include an underground garage as my building does in Canal Walk is because there is a high water table in that area which makes the whole entire area and there residents here that have testified in front of the esteemed Township Council within the last two weeks we're moving into a statement here I'm sorry Mr Thomas um are you aware of the fact that the area is flood prone especially Eastern Avenue the area is flood prone my responsibility as the engineer is to review the conditions on the property and the surrounding areas and make sure we don't make those conditions any worse and that's what we've done and that's what the review is through not only the professionals here in this municipality also with the DNR Canal commission and to any other appropriate including Somerset County Easton Avenue is a Somerset County Juris IAL Road right so they will review and if they have any comments or concerns about drainage conditions we will hear from them in the letter so am I am I correct to understand that you have not rece you have not received any approval from the uh drcc or the uh any of the other agencies that are concerned about flooding or about traffic uh can you I'm I got confused a little bit can can you tell us exactly what um approvals have you received as of today right right now we have a pending application that pending application I understand what that is but could you tell us what approvals you have gotten please we don't have any approvals other than we had a freehold or Somerset Union Soil Conservation District approval that dated back to when the plans would looked a little bit different than what they were here we added another application uh or I shouldn't say another application same application but with a slightly different uh site plan itself and it doesn't look that much different but we have a certification from soil erosion we have a pending application from Delaware R and Canal commission and a pending uh application with Summer uh Somerset County planning board yes and those are the only thank you I understand the difference between I'm I'm guessing people here understand the difference although we are lay people lay men and women we don't understand all of the technical terms but but am I clear in understanding that you have very few final approvals as of yet that's correct okay thank you um let's be let's be clear about that too some of those approvals and you may know them better than I uh can't be accomplished until this board acts sure so the fact that they have them right now or don't Isn't So relevant what's relevant is that it would be a condition of an approval that they have to get these permits so let's not waste more time on that okay so if you're aware of the fact that the area and Eastern Avenue is the surrounding area has a high water table and it's flood prone why do you insist on on a non impervious coverage for the parking lot um where okay I have another problem with this I'm sorry right now we're making an assumption that it's a high water table yeah you made the statement that it was based on what you heard from people so if we don't have any evidence that evence you want me to go get some evidence I I can bring it at the next here I don't want to have here say there's engineering that that can deal with this if it is a high water table fine if it's not I throw that comment okay Thomas but you can't just come here and say I hear it's a high water table no right is it true that the Eastern Avenue area in front of the strip mall floods frequently directly in front of the strip mall along easn I don't know I I don't have any knowledge of that I'm not so did you take into consideration the fact that whether did you examine whether the area is flood prone uh when you were making these plants we did what we have to do to the property and the surrounding area and we have evaluate everything when we do our storm water management analysis and when you deal with a project like this which is more of a Redevelopment than taking uh a a a virgin piece of ground and adding a lot of impervious coverage to it that's a different animal than what we have here this we review uh coverages building coverages to Pavement coverages overall existing to proposed coverages and general water quality requirements based on certain stand standards and guidelines and we comply with everything we need to comply with with respect to this application we are reducing the ovious coverage on the property uh we're not adding to it we're reducing thank you C can you um please um explain to us uh because again I'm confused with the drawing um where how many new additional parking spaces are there going to be and if you can point to us exactly on the map because with the large large Landscaping there I have a hard time envisioning where the 1100 or 11 1 1, 117 where they're going to be located it seems like the trees are right could you point us exactly where those parking spaces are going to be there's no new parking spaces we're reducing the amount of parking on the property there's a reduction in overall parking so the parking fields that you see there are generally there today all the parking field in front of Stop and Shop in that uh retail building to the bottom of the sheet to the South they all exist we're making modifications to the extent needed for the driveway accommodations but other than that they remain okay the new the parking field in front of the residential building and along JFK Boulevard they all exist but we're reducing the amount of parking within that area to incorporate the green space and the Landscaping and the other amenities okay I think I think I understand um and finally I apologize for taking all this time with regards to sidewalks and and I believe Mr uh Sheffer um alluded to that and again at the risk of being told that this is the domain of the safety engineer is there a safety engineer before I ask you this question like a person an engineer speci this is a sight plan question ask it it's a question of Public Safety because honestly my question is in this lovely four-story building with we don't know yet how many children will be there and how many young adults will be there and I don't know Mr Turner if you have children yourself I rais the question please yes I apologize where are we really rking the parking lot becoming the playground for the teenagers and young children that will be residing there and how are we protecting that which goes back to my the previous um uh Mr Grier's comments and are the sidewalks are we considering in did you consider in designing the sidewalks that people uh do not always follow a straight line when they walk instead they go diagonally across to get to stop and shop so they can buy their dinner in a hurry and how are we going to protect the public safety and the resident safety when there is is there a playground including in this building where are the children supposed to go so if there is no playground does that mean that the parking will be their playground okay I think there's a number of questions can we stop and let Mr Turner answer them yes thank at least three questions in there at least three questions yes I'm sorry so I I think one of the questions was in regards to pedestrian safety and I think I've already testified uh on a number of occasions in regards to the improvements that are being made on site relative to the sidewalks that are being added uh there would be no need for somebody to walk diagonally across the parking lot there are side walks and ramps that they can utilize and if they decide not to use them frankly that's that's on them I mean they're there and that's where they're supposed to walk along the sidewalks and and that's what they're there for in crosswalks so they're provided now on this plan which they currently are not on property uh and so in terms of the amenities the architect will discuss in detail what amenity packages are being proposed on the property uh for the children and the residents that are are located in that building uh and in terms of you know children playing in play in parking lots I I can't answer that question I mean that's not something I don't think anybody can answer if they're going to play look a child and I do have kids I have three daughters grown daughters um and you know it it's if if they want to play somewhere they're going to play somewhere and I you know that's all we can do is design to standards that are uh we are obligated to design too and we have to make engineering judgments in terms of safety on site plans and circulation and vehicular traffic versus pedestrian traffic and I think I've already said it but this plan in my opinion is a safe plan with respect to circulation and pedestrian movements okay for the sake of time I will withdraw for the thank [Applause] you may I ask questions or or have you R time pick up the pick up the mic John Park 510 Hamilton Street kareim Barbie please stop by when possible Mr Turner thank you for being here today I know it's a it's a tough it's a tough crowd just a quick question it's a technical question really um what is the width of that building right now the new building yep 335 fet or so 335t and how much space is between Kennedy Boulevard and um the the building currently as proposed as proposed yes yeah it's it's 130.7 ft set back from JFK Boulevard so if we put it to the edge it would be close to 500t right if you put the the building right up against the RightWay of JFK Boulevard yep yes it' be pretty close to 500 ft wouldn't recommend it but yes yeah I mean but you know we wouldn't recommend asking for four variances either but I don't think we can get the variance for putting the building on JFK Boulevard either I don't think you can get the variance for the height either good question um so when you say there's 1,100 parking spots are you counting electric parking as well yes are you counting them as two parking spots per no we are calculating it based on the percent percentage allowed uh based on the code okay so there are physically 1,100 parking spots in that there 1,100 parking spaces yes gotcha Mr Turner and uh Mr Turner how how often do you come to this town are you aware of all the zoning codes in this town I I I'm familiar with the zoning codes as needed project by project okay so um which areas typically allow a three-bedroom I I don't know okay so and generally ship s against three bedrooms do do you know why that's not appropriate for me to ask okay answer let let me let me answer that there's no allowing a three-bedroom there's no restriction against a three-bedroom that the reason they're providing the three-bedroom is the the three bedrooms that that I think it's eight three bedroom yes those are only as part of the affordable housing that they're proposing and they are when there is affordable housing they are required to provide a certain number of of affordable units in the form of three bedroom that's so that's that's why that's the eight units okay and then gen um generally what okay never mind withdrawn just for my it's a percentage of the affordable units understood um can you just remind me what a D1 variance is it's a use variance it's I mean but what what are you asking for a variance for residential within a business district gotcha and then what what is a D4 variance just sorry really quickly D4 is the F the floor area ratio variance and what about a D6 variance that's height right that's the height variant correct understood and what currently on East Avenue within Franklin Township what is the tallest building do you know I don't know do do um do currently buildings on Franklin Township allow four story building the Harrison is 36 stories tall oh 36 stories tall in that area so if um so if um if if you allowed the height if this zoning board allowed this building to go wouldn't Sumer said Plaza also allow be allowed to ask for a height variance would it be easier for them to do so I can't answer that question answer that question I'm sorry okay no further questions [Applause] Ed Ed carway 533 new Bron Road let me start by doing something unusual thank all of you for serving on the board I sat where you sat for two terms it is a thankless job and I appreciate the time and effort required to perform it um Mr attorney you spoke about um storm water runoff and I'm an engineer chemical engineer I read through all of the reports and you're using Cascade separators to remove TSS would you explain to the public what TSS is well it's a total suspended uh solids uh designation and it's a uh treatment device that's used to separate those suspended solids uh from the uh from from storm water so we put them in particular spots in this particular project we only required to put them in two locations uh which was a requirement by the DNR Canal commission uh in terms of removal and reconstruction of uh certain areas of asphalt we are obligated to do that uh when we do that type of construction within their District are there any controls for spills of gas and oil when during construction during and after cars leak oil it's it's nothing more than would you'd see on any particular site I mean it's a it's a standard site with a parking lot with buildings and you know it's it's so there's no there's no there's no specific oil no requirement to do anything no the maintenance requirements for the separators are uh quarterly every 3 months or after a 1in rain event and of late we've been having 1-in rain events twice in a week so the applicant is prepared to perform maintenance as many times as is necessary there there is there is and will be a storm water operation and maintenance manual in place it will be provided to the a group responsible for maintenance and that's their obligation who will that be I don't know so you don't know who's going to do this how will it no it's too early in the it's too early in the process toic uh the a manual the operation of Maintenance manual gets filed by deed okay and is that the results recorded and available to the public for review once they're filed yes okay so if you get three events in a week you are telling me now that someone will perform maintenance three times in that week I'm telling you that that is what they are required to do if that's I'm not ask I I you're asking me to forecast what somebody is going to do telling you that is the requirement whatever the requirement is in terms of regular maintenance and intervals during rainfall or after rainfall events that is all documented in that manual filed by deed and the responsible party is responsible for doing that work okay so via the board I asked that you find out from the township how they will monitor this because it could be three times in a week the way weather's been lately um you talked about trees there were trees in the Kmart parking lot I don't know if you ever knew that they were there I can only say that in terms of caring for those trees if it was Levan's responsibility they did an awful job because they're all dead you were now talking about trees of various different sizes as a member of the board in the past well I did the resolution so we said that if a tree dies it is replaced with a tree in kind which means if you got a 15t tree and it dies you don't put in a a Seedling so what I would ask that the board if they Grant this resolution make sure that they can't get away with planting a seeding when the tree Dives um that's a good thought thanks well we did it exactly for that reason and their track record with three fre is not very good um Kmart in addition to being a retail store had an automotive repair Stop Shop um by my background I've ordered facilities in three continents and I have yet to be in a place that never had a spill of something that shouldn't have been spilled so I'm going to I'm going to say pretty much with certainty that oil was build at Kmart and Kmart had a waste oil tank I know they had above ground I don't know if they had below ground what's been done in terms of soil testing to make sure there's been no oil in the ground so I our our office was not responsible for the preparation but I I believe there was a phase one environmental study done an environmental study needs to be done any way for to go from commercial to residential because it has to be certified clean to residential standards so that that's the work that either has been done or will be done or will continue to be done the building can't be built without that area being cleaned to residential standards does someone from Le know whether or not this is has been done and if not when it will be done and who will do it I I don't know if they'll know offhand this evening but I'm sure they can get the answer uh but again and we you know the project can't move forward and get any type of building permits or more specifically certificate of occupancies without making sure and certified that that area is clean okay so you would be they 11 would be required by law if it is found that there is oil or other contaminants in the ground to remediate it before they can do anything correct okay thank you very much thank you you're welcome thank you Dev zaly 1935 old anal Road um a lot of my questions were answered but I have one very important question uh what is the um what is a traffic pattern uh proposed to allow for shipping and receiving for the current retail space So currently all of the I'm I'm reverting back to exhibit 81 uh um you'll see the back of the Kmart building and the back of the retail Center as well as the back of the Stop and Shop the rear driveways are all the service areas for uh those those uses uh in the proposed condition uh the uh the operations for uh loading and unloading for Stop and Shop will occur uh they can either continue around the perimeter of this of the site and get themselves back like they do now and that will allow for services uh related to the uh multi-tenant building as well so the service areas are not changing relative to existing to proposed um okay so from my understanding there's 130 ft from the proposed Residential Building to JFK Boulevard correct and there's how many parking spaces in that line in which line the the line parallel with JFK Boulevard yes uh Pro I'm guessing it's probably around 130 spaces I would imagine somewhere around there and so you want an 18wheeler to go through that no no and I I just let me clarify there's a lot of things running in my head so what what will happen is uh there the services the service areas for the multi-purpose building and the other large tenants generally are not serviced by tractor trailer deliveries they're smaller tenant uses uh they're not large boxes so they're generally serviced by by for the most part by UPS box type trucks so they can wrap themselves around uh the front of the building and then come into the easterly end of the driveway and then do their servicing and then um make the U-turn around the back and then come back out the same way they came similar in fashion with Stop and Shop so there there would be really no need for them to come in CU we don't want them coming in through the front of the building so that's that's that's something we do not want them doing so all of their service will be done through the uh easterly side okay so I know this is not your engineering but if I were uh 11 I if that one box door is empty and crunch leaves then that is could be a site where an 18wheeler can go if they open up the wall and make a very big retail space so I implore the planning board to really look at this um facet I don't believe that there's enough uh um understanding of where the delivery and the drop off for shipping and receiving will be for the space I think that putting the proposed building where it is is not allowing for Access uh without the safety and concern of people who will be parking and and living [Applause] there um some other uh uh questions that I have is um what is the current uh um height of your proposed building that you're asking a variance for I know it's four uh floors but what is that height 47 ft okay and what is the current uh allowable height for that location that variance 40 feet is permitted right I I'm sorry I 30 feet I'm sorry 30 30 feet is permitted in the zone and the building proposed is 47 ft High Okay so in theory that the current Kmart building can definitely go a little higher to allow for better retail space that people are looking for all right um they said that already they said that already I know I'm sorry that I'm just going back to questions I apologize it loses its effect all right and my last uh question is um uh I I think you've said that but you talked really fast uh how many uh parking spaces are proposed for the residential space I think you said 387 is that correct correct yeah that's the required uh number of parking spaces for the 200 units okay so and and what I believe I said is that in that parking area around the residential space uh there is around that number there may be a little bit more I just don't have that number uh detailed so but it's it's at least 387 okay so that's less than two cars per unit um and are you allowing for any visitor parking space yeah that that number includes when you look at parking uh residential uh parking components as well as residential design standards are are all governed by the New Jersey residential site Improvement standards the residential site Improvement standards have a uh table of parking requirements based on the type of uh residential development it is and the number of bedrooms and that's how we calculate the uh the required number of parking spaces and built into their number is visitor spaces okay uh will there be uh restrictions on residential parking uh for commercial vehicles um like say for instance a tenant uh has a a business uh has a trailer um uh has a uh you know an electric you know vehicle like like what is the what is the allowable um what is the thought process for um commercial vehicles uh being allowed I know that there are restrictions for commercial vehicles in residential areas um especially on the streets and so forth and in different in in these different condo areas and I would like to know from the from the engineering perspective uh what is what's the thought process there generally when we design for residential development we are assuming that vehicular traffic will be uh of the residents or their guests will be what parks there uh commercial trucks we don't you know anticipate there being any commercial trucks landscape equipment they wouldn't be permitted to park in this area so it won't be just your your typical vehicular uh you know vehicles that are for the residents and or visitors and what is um so with all the the other retail space around there and you constantly have uh construction workers coming and going um how are you going to know which one are the residents and they're not allowed to have it versus the people that are just parking to actually go into uh Stop and Shop or into the other retail spaces well I think it it's it's by a product of the way that the residential parking field is broken apart from the other parking fields for Stop and Shop in the retail somebody going to shop at Stop and Shop I would not suspect want to park in front of the residential uh building because it's you know there's you know it's longer to walk so they would park in the front there's ample parking in front of the supermarket as well as those other retails components uh for people that want to uh go to those spaces they that's the parking field they'll use is is there current is there currently an ordinance for overnight parking in this uh in this retail space I I don't know I'm sorry okay I see there's other people that want to talk but I do have some more questions so I do hope that this gentleman does come back thank [Applause] you Arnold Schmidt um you're with menow engineering right yes and they performed the they they prepared the environmental assessment report the 11 page report correct correct are you the person to answer those questions uh what is your question I I have many questions okay uh I can answer general questions I have general questions okay then you can ask and I will tell you yes or no well you are you going to have somebody else that will be will be good enough to answer those questions that's that's ready to answer those question answer ask the question and I'll I'll see if I can answer I have a whole list of questions okay so are you going to have somebody else no the the we are not anticipated to have anybody else here the environmental impact report uh was submitted and reviewed by the various uh committees in in the uh town uh and we've agreed to address any of those comments that we can excellent so Mr chairman I have many many questions and I know that it's 11:20 is this gentleman going to be back so that we can ask these questions I know other people want to ask questions my questions are going to take with my questions will take about 15 minutes I have five different groups of questions um and with his answers who knows how long it could be uh you know so is he coming back or what I I will be back you will yes okay okay um I think I had one other question um you also mentioned you talked about Public Safety um seemed like you were pretty well versed on that are you the person to be talking about Public Safety pedestrian safety or is that something that is with the traffic people it depends on what your asking about I'm asking about pedestrian safety and traffic safety correct to the extent that I can testify to that I think I did uh providing The Pedestrian uh sidewalks the updated striping signage uh the crosswalks the Ada ramps providing The Pedestrian crosswalk interconnecting the different uses on the property that don't currently exist there today so there's a whole big big traffic study so I don't have to I don't have to ask the question to the traffic person not to me that would be the traffic engineer who will be here to testify okay but you're saying that you can so I don't know if I'm supposed to ask you them or should I ask them all those questions you should add hold them for the traffic engineer my testimony is in regards to the site planning and how we laid out the driveways the intersections and the sidewalks on the site okay all right good so we'll see you back whenever we see you back I'll have a lot of questions for you okay that's fine hi I'm Adrien St Ros 30 Foxwood Drive um I don't know if you can answer this question but why four levels why four stories I I I can't answer that question I Engineer what I'm told to engineer and that's what we do okay I think there are so many accommodations here and I couldn't I don't understand why we can't accommodate uh a variety of businesses in one building like a mall I I just don't understand that um but you you do talk to um safety right I correct so um you talked about sidewalks when I think about all of that open area in front of the um the apartment complex I don't understand why there's that need um we've talked about sidewalks for people to walk and I guess little kids as well by bicycles I'm thinking kids like to rollerblade they like to skateboard what do you have in place for that are there fences like what what are your plans for safety of of the little kids I know you say that you're only here for residential but right now this is a um I'm sorry for for residential right now this is a business area so I'm just trying to understand yeah I I I I I think I understand the question and I I don't want to sound like a broken record but the only thing we can do from a civil engineering point of view um is make sure we provide signning I get it right and the and also separation from the parking lots and the sidewalks and what I mean by that is providing curbs and some protection in that regard uh the sidewalks wrap around the building so that theoretically somebody can use that sidewalk as a walking path or for uh for riding a bicycle of that sort uh you know it's it's a mixed use property and I if have you been there because it's really kind of tight as it is so adding all those extra things will make it tighter I'm well they're already there I mean we've already Incorporated all those sidewalk adding more more sidewalks no not in this specific no not in this specific location just in one particular area that was mentioned up by the bank I get it I'll be back with more questions I want to thank everyone on the board I know this has been tough for you um but I appreciate that we are able to speak and I'm hoping that you're really taking to Heart our feelings and that this isn't just um you know you're listening and you've already made up your mind I really hope that you keep an open mind I would greatly appreciate [Applause] that uh good evening it's George klip from five Larson Road in Somerset here I have just a couple of questions primarily dealing with the I need to get closer to the mic how's that bring the mic closer to you how's that okay I have a couple questions with the site planning and you would alluded that you had taken care of the various subsurface utilities sewer and water and you know we're talking about uh the conditions there we have conditions now that would uh be suitable for the development of this uh you know 200 unit apartment house now let's assume that we're going to have oh just roughly speaking maybe 250 gallons per day per unit that's a fair assumption I believe so we're talking about a lot of water per day now the Kmart did not generate that much septic or or sewage effluent how are we going to guarantee that this stuff can get off of the site not overwhelm the system that's you know generally overwhelmed to begin with and that's just in the sanitary waste then there's the water the subsurf or should say the surface runoff is another issue you talk about you're moving the T DSS and dealing with the various things that will roll off the site and you're thinking about it a 1-in storm would generate roughly on this 27 Acres site roughly 3/4 of a million gallons of water are your systems going to be able to handle that I mean and looking in the the data that was available have no feeling for that except that we're going to comply with the rules and regulations I'd like to know how you're going to comply with them well we comply with them by virtue of what I had explained earlier a there's a combination of a reduction in impervious coverage on the property which net reduces the flow rate from the site and we're also providing the water quality structures that are required I have to design to a standard I have to design to what I am obligated to design to by Municipal standards by New Jersey residential site Improvement standards and by the njd and the DNR Canal commission and we've we've analyzed this site for storm water management and we've ident IFI that we are compliant with all of those requirements so that and that's Our obligation that is what we have to do all right you've brought up the fact a couple times you've reduced the impervious cover on the site the site's underl by kinville silty silty Loom that's essentially impermeable itself we got a a deposit there that has maybe a permeability of 10 minus 4 cm per second it ain't going to go through it so you you could probably take all of the asphalt off of that property and you'll get the same amount of runoff well we're not we're not introducing water back into the ground it's going it's being collected and then ran through storm water piping well if we we had in the past few years you know uh rainfall you know one inch storm is 3 inches in change that's a lot of water I mean you know you're not talking about detention basins or retention basins you're talking about these you know relatively small TS have question there yep it's you're you're getting into having a conversation rather than asking a question I'm asking if his system is going to be able to handle the FL you asked that already he said yes I don't believe it is well then he has he hasn't told us how much water he's willing to accommodate I I I can testify to you that the system on site has been reviewed analyzed submitted to all the professionals required to review it and all outside agencies and they've all agreed to to this point right now in time that we are compliant all right well if we're compliant and everything's going to run hunky door we're not going to have any problems I guess we just have to say we build it and see what happens but I would not want to be around to Watch What Happens thank you you're welcome Mr Turner I think in the middle of that he also asked about the water public water and the and sanitary sewer can you answer that sure so yes the sewer uh is required to get an approval from uh Franklin Township sewage Authority uh we will make that application and they will confirm that they have adequate capacity for the site we have no reason to believe that that they do not uh and then the water uh will be subject to a Master permit that is applied uh for by the municipality it's a master permit to Franklin Township and once that's done the uh the required uh water demand for this property will be included within that Master permit okay at this point we uh close the questioning uh session and move on uh find a new date for another hearing so don't leave until you are know what the next meeting date is because it's not going to be uh it's not going to be noticed to people or it'll be on the website for the township but this is the uh best place to get it okay so the hearing for 11 properties zba 24001 is going to be carried until May 2nd at 7:30 p.m. here at this location at 475 de M Lane at 7:30 p.m. he may second same time same place yep any other housekeeping comments or questions is there a motion to adjourn moved second all in favor got it right and thank you board for your your fing attentiveness