this is a zoning board meeting of June 20th 2024 in accordance with open public meetings act PL 1975 chapter 231 adequate notice of this regular meeting of the board of adjustment of the township of Franklin has been provided board members applicant professionals and members of the public please speak directly into microphones so that our recording secretary can properly process minutes applicants and professionals please fill out the sheet on the table when you've completed your testimony thank you roll call uh please Cheryl bethia here Richard pranic here uh Joel ree as to be excused Alan Rich here Gary Rosenthal here Robert Shephard here vasim vas here farzan Michael Dy here Kunal lir here chairman Thomas Here regular meeting minutes March 7th 2024 we have a motion I'll move uh Cheryl you can't vote the only people who can vote are Richard pranic Allan rich Robert Shephard and uh Bob Thomas I'll move I'll second who second Rich you did oh Allan sorry Richard procanik yes Allan Rich yes Robert Shephard yes chairman Thomas yes March 21st 202 24 everyone but Mike Dy can vote I'll move a second Chara yes Richard procanik yes Alan Rich yes Gary Rosenthal yes Robert Shepard yes bassim veros yes chairman uh kunil lir yes thank you Rich uh chairman Thomas yes regular meeting April 4th 2024 everybody on the board can vote right now a second Sheria yes Richard procanik yes Allan Rich yes Gary Rosenthal yes Robert Shephard yes Bim veros Michael Dy yes Kunal laia yes chairman Thomas yes uh resolutions ECG New Jersey Incorporated zba 2314 uh Mike Dy and Kunal lir cannot vote I'll move Bim thank you charer beia yes Richard procanik yes Alan Rich yes Gary Rosenthal yes Robert Shephard yes Basim veros yes chairman Thomas yes Thomas House CBA 23 000021 Cheryl beia Gary Rosenthal vasim FAS Mike dhy and konala cannnot vote I'm move the the resolution second Rich branik yes Allan Rich yes Robert Shephard yes shman Thomas yes and the same with uh the next resolution a run do zba 24 00005 I'll move the resolution I'll second Richard panic yes Alan Rich yes Robert Shepard yes chairman Thomas yes uh we have no items under discussion and moving into hearings continuation uh car uh hearing carried from May 2nd 11 property zba 24001 preliminary final major site plan with C variances in which the applicant proposes to construct a four-story apartment building at 940 eastn Avenue Somerset block 385 block lot 2.07 in the GB Zone again carried from uh May 2nd no further notification was required we were in the process of dealing with a witness maybe you can give us a quick uh update on what we're doing here yes sure thank you Mr chairman members of the board uh when we were last here uh late in the evening uh Mr Turner had finished his testimony and there were a number of individuals who were still waiting to ask him questions since my back was to the audience I didn't know if the line had been exhausted or if there were still people who wish to ask questions so I thought that would be an appropriate spot to pick up okay his testimony is covering what for the benefit of I'm sorry yes his he's the engineer for the project he can uh he went through the site plan he uh detailed each of the pages in the site plan and explained exactly uh all of the details of that plan okay then we will go directly to opening to the public uh if you had questions that you wrote down from the last hearing for this witness in terms of engineering then that's this will be your opportunity to ask questions based on his testimony it is not and I don't like this I love this uh I don't want this it is is asking questions Gathering facts uh meeting's now open to the [Music] public good evening Arnold Schmidt 134 Hickory Road Somerset Mr Turner correct correct okay um is it correct that the full extent of the Levan menow environmental assessment report concerning public health and safety States quote this project will result in negligible impacts of traffic air quality noise and Public Utilities the multifam residential use does not create potential dangerous site and it is highly unlikely that this project poses any risk to the public health or safety correct where are you reading that directly from the environmental assessment exactly what I'm reading from yes then that is correct okay Mr Turner as a parent as you stated previously more specifically recording teens and pre-teens would you agree that they sometimes like to hang out of places away from your parents to meet friends listen to music play video games or other activities I I I suppose it's not directly related to engineering but I can say yes sure okay good Len's proposal includes a pedestrian walk path to McDonald's from the apartment building was there any discussion when preparing a report focusing on teens and pre-teens from the apartment building who sometimes may not use sidewalk because sidewalks because we know they don't always like to follow the rules any discussion about that no okay so not a concern was there any discussion or consideration while working on the memo report about anybody including teens and pre-teens walking from this proposed building wearing earbuds and headphones listening to music or playing games on their electronic devices or trying to navigate their way uh straight through the building's parking lot across the two-lane two-way JFK Boulevard access road to get to McDonald's with cars and trucks coming in all different directions they're going hear this Mr Schmidt is is there a question there or is that a testimony I am I getting does and does it relate to M absolutely relates yes sir go ahead it doesn't and relates directly to Mr Turner's testimony he gave at the last hearing it relates to not necessarily what he said but what is in his report and what we were told in the beginning that we can question him on what is in the report and what he spoke about can you indicate when you ask these questions for the board's edification as well as Council for the applicant what page of the report you're referring to and what part of the report you're referring to page nine 5.13 public health and safety thank you sir you're welcome so to continue um so these pre-teens and teens walking from the apartment building to the McDonald's acrossing uh the two lanes the access road and uh to get to McDonald's with cars and trucks coming in both directions cars coming up from behind the apartment building cars in the McDonald's parking lot um walking all around they've got their headphones on any discussion about concerns about that if if the question is whether or not I believe the plan is designed to be safe for pedestrian movements the answer is yes it is safe we've provided walking paths question your question is it's a yes or no question Mr was there any discussion about whether I'm sorry I'm not sure it's just a yes or no answer you know okay the site plan is the site plan and if he's certifying that the Circ ation for p plan for pedestrians is safe it's safe I don't know that we're able to hold this applicant responsibility for kids wearing headsets and Crossing Kennedy Boulevard uh the questions are supposed to be pertaining to the engineering of the site maybe what you're asking is better addressed by someone who may be in charged of uh site management when it's operational I don't know I I don't see this as strictly his engineering testimony Mr chairman if I could just be heard on that issue just the facts that the individual is sighting can apply to anywhere in the municipality teenagers walking with headphones with airpods in teenagers not adhering to crosswalks or sidewalks that's not unique uh to this plan it's not something that uniquely is situated in rector's Plaza it could apply to any shopping center any site whether it's Hamilton Street or East Avenue if I could if I could comment comment I agree it's not unique um however what is unique is that this applicant is asking for a c variance he's asking for something it's a it's a big change um and in something like this you would think they need to think outside of the box when they're changing from a Kmart or retail store to an apartment building with upwards of 500 people there with teens and pre-teens that's the point that I'm getting at if they were if they were uh presenting an application for a retail outlet to replace Kmart in this within this site plan would you be asking the same question questions I'm we can't as a municipality we can we can uh s do a site plan review and we can listen to The Experts testimony in this case the engineer and eventually traffic that that this is safe it meets all standards uh and everything like that we cannot sit here and discuss for the next 3 hours teenagers wearing headphones okay I was done with you know I was done with headphones but let move on I would have been done with my questioning by now but I appreciate you know you guys' input um but you're throwing me off a little bit here the point of this is in the report they're talking about public health and safety and that is the point that I'm getting at public and when you ask me about would I make a would I'd be saying asking the same question about if we were going from an apartment to retail no and I'm going to explain why that will be my last question or two as to I will get to that in my last one or two questions as to why there is a difference so if you'd let me please continue I don't have a long ways to go um are you are you aware of Marone Plaza Park not specifically no okay very good so on April 4th you said that it was your responsibility to know the the the Rucker's Plaza and the surrounding properties do you know where Marone Plaza Park is Mr chairman are we going to play gacha I mean this seems to be a little far field for this application if there's a specific question involving Marone Plaza I would appreciate the individual asking the question and not I am asking the question and you're afraid of what I'm going to ask just ask the question sir I'm asking the question and you're interrupting me and maybe it is a gotcha question but he said at the last meeting that he was a familiar with all the surrounding parks and your question is right about that if he says that he's aware of it so my question is when preparing your report was there any discussion and I'm getting back to the to the lanes and and the headphones but I won't I won't mention the headphones but as far as pre-teens and teenagers walking from this apartment building to go across two lanes of the entrance and access road and then having to cross JFK Boulevard to get to Marone Park the safety factor and again I refer to page 9 5.1 three public health and safety Mr so was that discussed okay in your during your deliberations you're really really trying my patience okay I don't think how many years has Marone Park existed at least 30 okay I don't think you would find two teenagers in Franklin Township that will admit to having visited Marone Park and that feeds into exactly where I'm going thank you I appreciate you going in that direction you're going to have to really stretch it to tell me how I'm going to I'm going to okay so I have three more questions ask them that's it question one ask it so which scenario do you think has the potential for more V motor vehicle pedestrian accents when people focusing mostly on teens and pre-teens walking from where the old Kmart building is to Marone Park a if there's a retail store or stores where the old Kmart building is or if there's an apartment building with about 500 residents including dozens of children there which is likely to result in more accidents a retail store or an apartment building Mr chairman there's a big difference between 500 residents and a r yes sir Miss nki wishes to raise an objection to your question would you let him raise it please I'm not familiar where in the municipal land use law or the municipal ordinances of Township of Franklin that hypothetical is postulated that it's a requirement of this application to examine whether or not teenagers with or without headphones might be crossing the street from Marone park I think it's outside the scope of the testimony that this witness has provided and certainly outside the scope of the application this application has nothing to do with Marone Park it has everything to do with Marone Park when he said that he is familiar made himself familiar with all the surrounding properties and again when you have 500 par residents and according to the sentence there's going to be probably 50 or 60 Mr SCH teens or preens yes stop Yes you keep trying to put more information on the record than the record requires Mr Turner can you answer the question as posed as long if your attorney is telling you not to answer let me put it on the record it's not it's not a question I can answer thank you next question Mr Schmidt that's fine okay um I guess my final question as far as this is concerned when preparing the public health and safety section where Menlo States the multif family residential use does not create a potential potential dangerous site and it is highly unlikely that this project poses any risk to Public Health or safety end quote did menow engineering on behalf of leev management take into consideration Marcone Park McDonald's and their children living in the proposed apartment building walking to these sites under the precarious situ sit scenarios I presented with all the motor vehicles going back and forth through the access road JFK Boulevard and all those okay now I'm going to ask you a question that you said you would answer yes sir what makes this different or more dangerous than a retail outlet with a th000 cars and a parking lot the difference is that a retail store or retail outlet the people are going to the retail store and then they're going somewhere else they're driving somewhere else for the most part when you have an apartment building with approximately 500 people living there they're living there and they are walking to McDonald's they're walking to the stores in the area there they can be walking across the street to JFK Boulevard there's a big difference between an apartment building with 500 residents and a retail store with people coming and going so you're saying people never went into Kmart and then walked the Venus Jeweler or down the sidewalk to the dollar store or to the gym or to the other places hold on hold on it's a good it's a valid question but the answer is yes they do but not to the extent of having an apartment building with 500 people living in it there's a big difference where they are living on site walking to these places instead of having people that are transient coming and going from to going from home to a retail store and going back home or wherever they're going they are for the most part I'm not an expert but I would guess for the most part they're not you know M Mr Schmidt let me ask you question sure we'll get Mr Turner to answer yours are you planning at any point along in this application to put testimony on with an expert to testify as to the so-called comings and goings of people leaving or not leaving this proposed application which you are asking the board to accept at the moment on face value without any background for such no I'm not okay no Mr Turner to the extent that you can answer the question please answer it the question in regards to or related to Marone Park Marcone Park is not part of the application my obligation is to identify and make sure that the onsite circulation pedestrian vehicular all the movements that are required on on site driveway accesses are safe and that's what we've done may I respond to that no we may Place testimony on the record at some point later in this I will I will ask him a question then then ask him a question but you can't put testimony okay I will ask him a question did you not on April 4th state that it was your responsibility to be familiar with and know the ruers plaza property and all the surrounding properties and believe me I went back and looked at I'm sorry I'm making a statement I won't make a statement I'm asking the question thank you yes and that is correct and I am familiar with the surrounding areas uh forgive me for not remembering and recalling that it was Marone Park I work on a number of projects throughout the uh course of a month and we haven't been here in a month and a half or so uh so uh yes I am familiar with the area but not Marone Park as you said I right across the street I am familiar with the fact that there is an open parcel at the corner of JFK Boulevard in Easton Avenue Marone Park if it's the Marone Park yes difference between an open space and a park where people can walk I'm sorry a question I'm sorry so is there a difference between just an open area and a park where children can go from the apartment building dozens of children can walk across the access road and across buard is the question is there a difference between an open parcel and a neighboring park for purposes of this application thank you thank you for the purposes of this application it it doesn't matter we're not the the Marone park has nothing to do specifically with this application okay I am done with this line of questioning so thank you I'm going to make a special request now and I know you said previously that you only get your one shot at the Apple here um that said as in the township environmental commission as and this is a this is sort of a statement but it's about the this this thing we you're not entertaining statements and when you mention the environmental commission are you you're not speaking for them are you I am and have you been authorized to speak for the environmental commission not specifically and you're not allowed to speak on behalf of the environmental commit can I come back and speak if you provide the board secretary copies to Mr wisuki and the board that you have have a formal resolution from the environmental commission authorizing you to speak on their behalf then you can come back and speak on behalf of the environmental commission at a point in time relative to the application as a whole but not as the individual Witnesses the environment Al commission sent us a report yes asked them to amend it and include what you're talking about that's the simplest most efficient way to do it you can't speak without authorization for them that 12 page report did not mention okay go back to them and and have them amend it that's all it's not they don't have anything to amend in theirs they're the ones that didn't put anything in their report about chemicals and material and then have the environmental commission make that state whatever you were going to say on behalf of the environmental commission have them put it in an amended report and send it to Mark and we'll get it in our packet and will I be able to question this expert Mr Turner yes about about that part of the the report if he I would say you would get the question if he's here if he's not here for that hearing then obviously uh you can't but the point is you you can't question him now on Beal of the environmental commission so you're not losing anything you can't do what you're intending to do I understand that but they're just serious issues and it's the statement I understand that have not been addressed by the app Mr Schmid yes I know I know with all due respect there is a possibility that if the application doesn't go the way somebody or somebody's wanted to go this is going to get appealed to a judge and one of the things we need to try to do is to try to not clutter the transcript with non gerine issues that only are going to raise issues down the road in a Judicial setting ask the questions don't ask the question s don't testify and don't make statements you're not authorized to make and by the way folks that's a statement in general not just for Mr Schmid so I'm not going to make any statements but may I ask him questions about the automotive part of the you're supposed to ask him questions based on the information that he testified to or that is in the report well that's in his written report it's an engineering engineering testimony MH yes and what if he left very important information out of that am I allowed to ask him about that who said he left very important information out of it I just did it's well-known information as to what happened at kmore for 30 years Mr chairman there's no foundation and if we're going to get into expert testimony then he should bring an expert witness in to provide that information to the board Mr Winski there's a lack of foundation because your client did not report the incredibly important public health and safety information in the report tried to hide it from the board and the public and now continue to try to hide it by bringing this information into the sun it's your your person's problem yes sir you know AR a long time ago I did ask for someone to be removed from this hearing from a in yes we have rules we have to follow them Mr Mr barnstein said there's a procedure to follow in case this goes beyond here at some point in time you're making it difficult for yourself for the position that you're advocating you're doing it no benefit whatsoever you're making it very difficult on us now last last chance if you have an engineering question ask it otherwise please take your seat and we'll allow other people to get a chance to ask their questions I can't ask any more questions because of I'm stonewalling so thank you I apologize I resent that comment that you can't ask questions because you're being stonewalled not by you not by you you're not following the established legal procedures that we follow here understood it's not a matter of being stonewalled understood it's I don't mean by you I mean by him saying lack of foundation not that's that's a it's the same it's the same issue I'll make the same comment I just made a few minutes ago if you have an expert if you have documents at some point down the road you want this board to consider you have witnesses to testify which will allow Mr wisnoski to Crossing examine and the board to examine you are free to do so you are not however free to conduct a inquisition of any of the expert Witnesses of the of the applicant simply because because you believe or don't believe they did or did not provide a full picture of what you think they should be providing either you provide it or you argue about it at the appropriate time which is at the end of this hearing whenever that will be I didn't mean to disrespect you thank you hey thank you any other members of the public want to dare to speak I it isn't usually it doesn't usually develop this this situation we need your name hi Kyle haad uh 10 Webster Road Somerset New Jersey um would would it be all right if I ask uh for a list again of the people that will be testifying so that we know what questions we can ask and save later uh could be after I ask but next witness tonight will be the architect correct Dave is the only other witness tonight that's it that's it and who else are you planning on potentially calling in the future we plan on calling in the future um we have our traffic expert Carl peny we have Chris aotto from the auto valuation group we have our planner Paul Phillips uh and we have Matt Harding from the liven management company sure um I just got a couple of questions uh there seems to be like this will put a uh a large amount of they have 500 Apartments or five 400 apartments 500 people uh that's quite a bit for sewage what is the wait a second 200 Apartments Apartments I just heard 500 people just so we're on the same page because these these numbers get thrown out indiscriminately without thought 200 Apartments it is pure speculation if someone says there's going to be 500 people and it's also well what is the average size wait a minute it's also a speculation to say that there will be hundreds of school children okay you're you look like a reasonable person and an intelligent adult I'm sure you can D deduce that from 200 Apartments maybe you'll get 400 people maybe you'll get 500 but it's speculation right same with school children and Mr chairman I I do believe they are going to be having somebody from the from the development side is that correct and is and and then also a planner so questions like the number of people things like that you know I think that are that is a reasonable question to ask perhaps of somebody down the road that's correct either the planner or from Chris AO all right thank you Chris Auto he's valuation yeah I just figured with a average population for a family is 3.1 that's not speculation than in 200 Apartments would be it is speculation sir without testimony to back it up the board takes testimony relative to facts and figures if when either Mr Otto or Mr Phillips comes to testify you can ask them the question whether depending on their testimony whether or not it's accurate and the basis for such but there's been no testimony from this individual as to the number of people or children who are going to be produced if this application is approved understood thank you can I ask if you were here for his testimony last time I was he was I work okay thank you um what is the size diameter pipe that will be uh installed for sewage hookup into the sewer m in uh JFK the the sewer m is already there it's on site it's an 8 in diameter sanitary sewer and have you contacted uh Franklin utilities to clear their allowance for the amount of volume that'll be increased an application needs to be made to Franklin Township sewage Authority uh in order for them to do their study to confirm adequate capacity we believe there's no reason uh there's no reason to believe that there is not adequate capacity we're replacing a large retail component with 200 residential units so say that again what did you just say we're replacing a large retail building with 200 residential units so we're not a on into the site 200 additional residential units where we get credit for the flow that was contributing from Kmart the Kmart building so there will be a difference whether it's a net loss or a net gain of or increase in flow uh it it's it and and we've done the evaluation in terms of what can fit in that 8 in line and we are of the opinion that the main has adequate capacity it and that will have to get reviewed by the sewage Authority understood um does the residential usually have more than commercial uh it it's it's tough to say one or the other because the residential capacity calculations are done based on different types of uses and a number of bedrooms uh I don't know off the top of my head there's just too many numbers what that number is uh the retail component is uh generally 0.1 gallons per square foot in terms of calc cating sewer flow the um would you happen to know what the sewer main is in JFK currently what not for yours but in the public I don't know I don't know what that is no we're not tying into we're not going to touch it that'll be that'll be something that the sewage Authority looks at you're not tying into it we're tying on into the on-site Mains that tie into the sewer system that's located in JFK Boulevard but we're not touching the line in JFK Boulevard so if there is an increase and the sewer of JFK is undersized due to that increase who is responsible for the cost of increasing the sewer m going into the wastewater treatment plan that'll be a determination made by the sewage Authority okay but so then it could be on the taxpayer I won't speculate in one of my other capacities as general counsel of the sewage Authority but uh the answer is it would have to be addressed at the appropriate time and a condition of approval of this application is approved is the impact on the sew system and the approval by the sew Authority okay uh last question um are there any other strip malls or areas like this that have a residential component in Franklin off of the top of my head I can't tell you yes or no uh would I be able to ask the board do do you guys know of anything that is has a residential all the board not to answer the question Mr chairman yes I know there's recently approved a conversion of a commercial site to residential on Hamilton Street but it's not been done yet it's approved but not built not yet okay well I I mean I I'll answer the question it just it's a factual thing are there other buildings in town where there's a where there are are retail and residential uses in the same building in the same site the answer is yes there are plenty Mo most of them are along Hamilton Street there are several mixed use buildings along Hamilton Street can you give me an example sir I don't have it I'm not trying to drive down Hamil Street I mean there are plenty look to either side retail on the first floor commercial on the second third and fourth floor there's sever several dozen I don't have addresses to give you but it's it's not exactly you're walking around an entire area it's there's one above the other you have a restaurant an apartment above it it's a little bit different from this would you say well I'm not testifying I'm answering the I'm answering I'm not here to testify for the applicant understandable the questions I understood was are there sites or buildings where there's where there's both retail and residential and that's the answer my the the only reason why I ask is because it was said that this is unique or not unique for safety but it sounds like this is a fairly unique property so I don't understand why you know the safety of people walking around is not unique to this that's all thank you anyone else hi Elizabeth tools tendia Road Somerset New Jersey and I just wanted to say just in reference to what he was saying about if you go up and down Hamilton I think there's a difference between a college area where you have high school I mean college students going back and from a dorm no because he just brought I understand what he said in answer to question the issue is if you have a question I also want to just continue to add that you asked if we heard his speech um when he came that was two months ago last month when we showed up it was cancelled and then you all rescheduled it on the day of the Franklin High School graduation date so um you know just out of courtesy of the people who live here I'm a little concerned because it feels like I know that you're saying there's a procedure but you can't also attack the residents who are up here asking questions I'm not an authority on um you know what plans have to look like we've we've been given no Advanced information to prepare for you know questions or understanding what the parameters are but then it feels like the people are coming up here and being attacked when they're an asking their questions I do I do think that this is an unusual situation and Mr Schmidt brought up a question that I you know I would like answered because I know you all are saying that this is um that you know you're not going to answer million question about children and you know you don't pay attention what happens with crosswalks in in a mall area but the reality of it is this is not a mall area this is they're talking about putting up a 200 unit apartment building ma'am in in a mall this question is for him I would like to would you please you let us finish so we what I would like for the Happ ma'am what I would I attacking the I apologize if you believe I'm condescending but there's a process this is a quasi judicial proced nobody's asking a question that hasn't been corrected so how nobody has asked the question well you're doing most of the talking ask we're not getting the opportunity what I was about to ask and I personally would like to know how this will affect the environment because I'm not on the environmental committee but I am breathing the air and so is my husband and so are my children and and I've been living here 30 years paying taxes did you ask that question my question oh well if I ever get a chance to not spend my whole just ask the question he's only talking to you because we're getting off track I didn't get to finish the question that I was going to ask and I wasn't getting off track because the question I was going to ask him is because this is a particular situation that's different from the norm because there are no other apartment complex 200 unit apartment complexes in all circles in Franklin Township then it makes sense that the residents have different safety concerns than you would expect in an average mall so I do think the questions that Mr Schmidt put to him were relevant because this they're asking us to do something out of the norm but then you're asking us to not ask questions that relate to that and I don't think that that's right that's why I think it's important to let the person speak if once they speak if then you don't think the question's relevant that's one thing but to shut us down while we're asking the questions seems to intimidate people from asking the questions and my second question well that was my first question I would like to know because this is a abnormal situation what are they doing to take that into consideration because this is not just people going in and out of Kmart this is 200 Apartments where people are living there in a mall situation which is not the norm so what are the extra safety concerns that are being handled beyond the bare minimum of what you would expect when there is no apartment Com when there you know if this wasn't a mall situation were you here for his testimon yes I was two months ago yes I was here and I'm not you know I'm not like running any special committee where I have like this Sharpshooter memory but based on the information that he is presenting these are questions I have as a concerned resident that I don't feel are being answered cuz most it's more like arguments going up with people's questions being cut off and redirected and I would like for him I will not apologize for cutting off questions if I give the introduction every meeting this is a specific procedure his testimony is engineering the questions we [Music] we're not hearing from him we're only hearing from the board he I'm not he's not providing any any questions concerning question don't think there's any that is an engineering question I believe that the question of the of pedestrians and the children that's an engineering question they're asking us to do something out of the ordinary they're asking us to do something out of the ordinary and also I would also like to know why when are we going to get the environmental Port I'm not on the environmental committee I'm not speaking on behalf of the environmental committee but I am living in Franklin Township this is my environment the environmental commission report ma'am is public record it is in the online yes online is part of this application it's not online but it's in it's in the it's in the it's in the file with the Department of Planning and Zoning thank you sorry none of the reports are online but all the application materials are online well could they summarize for us what it's going to tell us no I mean so what are what we're up here asking questions and we'll never get an answer is that what's going no you're asking questions of the witness the witness is going to answer the question related to whether or not the applicant took into consideration the issue of pedestrian safety and related items in its consideration of his application he's not here testifying as the environmental it's an environmental commission report which is part of the record which you are more than welcome to get a copy of here at town at the Township Municipal Building also at the at later on in the hearing we as a board go over all the reports that have been submitted to us which includes the environmental report and if there are issues brought up by the environmental commission we deal with them right now the environmental report's not part of the issue engineering is you're bringing in safety and pedestrian safety and making that part of this issue that's not engineering that's not engineering and unusual considering the unusual scope of what they're asking that's not considered engineering environmental no I'm talking about what you just said I said ask the question I did but then every time it's time for him to answer you all jump in you keep going back to the Environmental report you won't keep we will deal with the we will deal with the environmental report when that part when that comes up we deal with all of the reports right now we're going step by step and right now we're on the engineering step and I can answer again and it's going to I apologize because I know I'm going to sound like a broken record my testimony last time we were here and my testimony when uh the gentleman came up and asked the question is the same we provided adequate pedestrian circulation through uh sidewalks for pedestrian movements we have crosswalks at all intersections we have all the Ada ramping that's required uh in my opinion as the professional engineer for this project the site has been designed for adequate pedestrian safety movements well can I ask then what experience that you have in designing sites for 200 Union Department complexes and shopping areas it's it's irrelevant they're all different every site is different other sites don't look like you designed other um 200 unit apartment areas and Sh shopping center circles he he's been accepted as an expert witness by this board I believe the individual testified that each situation is dealt with separately and he has testified that he believes that the applicant has engineered the site Co appropriately based upon the requirements that's his his answer well it's actually your answer if you if you don't agree with it at the end of the hearings you have a chance to make a statement you can at that time stand up where you are now and say I think he's full of crap I don't agree with him it's it's what he said is wrong that's when it's appropriate right now you ask the question he gave the answer I think I think if they're interested in people considering what they're asking it's important for us to understand and I just complain in the end I don't you know I have concerns and my concerns aren't being addressed so if that's where it wants to be left then that's fine but I I do think these are an unusual circumstances and we're asking questions that that relate to those unusual circumstances and he's not answering you are so that that's concern he did give you an answer he didn't answer the his experience doing building you know he's wrote out a plan to the best of his knowledge but he has no experience building for for pedestrian safety because he's never done put in a 200 that's not true he's a professional engineer liced I can I can be a a professional teacher but if I've only taught kindergarten I'm not going to go to college and teach College students so that's a relevant question as to his experience like this his his credibility is something that the board will evaluate at the end of the hearing when all the facts are in well I think people are asking these questions too because they want to make sure that there are things that the board takes under consideration if they're if they're testified to if they're brought out if the information is brought out through the questioning from the public the board absolutely does take it into consideration we aren't able at this point to say to decide we agree with what you're saying so we're going to vote this application down we can't do that we have to hear all the witnesses all the testimony and all the public discussion then we can take it and give it a public consideration okay thank you [Applause] Terry Thorson 18 Leed Drive I'd like to ask the engineer if this is his engineering report about Terry Thorson tell your last name man for for the right t h o r s n thank you yes that's my report will you read the highlighted portion the first portion about the effluent can she just ask a question I did I said can you please read it no she's no that's the question he can read I think it's I think it's established that Mr Turner knows how to read the ma'am if you'd like to ask him a question regarding the highlighted information okay I'll ask the question the question is why does it say that the Kmart project original Kmart building produced about 10,000 gallons of effluent and it's estimated that your project will produce 40,000 an increase of almost 30,000 gallons and you didn't know that you said you didn't have the figures I had the figures you didn't have them ma'am I look at a lot of projects and different reports throughout the course of a day and throughout the course of many months uh I did not specifically indicate that I knew the numbers because I did not know the numbers and frankly it doesn't matter we are obligated to go to the Franklin Township sewage Authority and obtain their approval if they come back and don't approve the the project this doesn't move forward once we get Franklin Township sewage Authority it has to go to the njde if we don't get their approval the project cannot move forward this is a just a technical issue related to sanitary flow and we are obligated to get the permits that we need for the project okay I have a another question um with the sewage you required to have sewage pumps to pump them out because your application did say that uh it would require it not in there uh in the application it said that the sewage pumping station would be either diesel or natural gas was there any consideration to giving more clean energy I I don't think that's related to this particular project I don't know where that report came from that didn't come from it's in your app it's in the application in the application but it didn't come from my office okay so you can't answer it well I can tell you that the gravity of the sewer system that's required for this property is accommodated by gravity flow there's no pumping required for the first second and third floors of this particular building I I was thinking that the pumping they're talking about pumping stations in the so I was thinking it was something that would be the entire building and getting it into the sewage system no I I don't know why that's in that application there is no Pump Station related to this project well that's a problem a lot of these applications are just padded they're just a boiler plate and and then individual little things get put in one thing I'd like to say I think there's a little Mis understanding here when the previous lady was up here we talking about an environmental report I thought she was talking about the environmental commission but she was being referred to the environmental impact statement that Levan paid for no we were talking about the environmental commission it was very confusing when I was listening I don't know which one no I was talking about that that one is online you can read that but the envi environmental commission didn't make the report it's the people they paid that made it the report's on file good evening everyone my name is Kashmir make sure you speak into the mic um can everyone hear me you can t yes I I know what to do Kashmir Medan from spangenburg Lane in Somerset um Mr Schmidt and all the other speakers brought upon good points and I did so so first of all I do not know the formalities of this meeting today this is my first meeting I got to know about this a few weeks back so I'm here I'm here as a lay person I do not understand the intricacies and the formalities of this so pardon me at the very out it um the Marone Plaza he brought up a very good point that is a historical place and what happens is that when there is no pedestrian Crossing ma'am yes the way that this works is that during this part of the hearing you get to ask the people questions but you don't get a chance to do what you're doing now that comes at the end of the hearing you can get up and talk about Marone Plaza and everything but not now now what you're what you're supposed to be doing if you're going to do anything at all is to ask him questions about his testimony now you're a little hampered in that regard because you weren't here at the previous but there'll be plenty of other Witnesses for you to try this out on okay but you can't really give statements now I'm not this is not a statement this is a question well where's the question okay so I'm coming to the question because I want to give you some context for the question before asking that what I would like to know is will there be a pedestrian Crossing from the Kmart building to the Marone Plaza and question number two let's check try question number one first okay none none are proposed no no is the answer to that question next question so the question to that question is if it is not there where can we add it to the project and who will take care of the uh pedestrian Crossing like the lane markings and the maintenance of it so that brings me to question number two right now the JFK Boulevard median is not a very well-maintained median so with this new project will the median maintenance some kind of landscaping and aesthetic PS and all of that will that be part of the responsibility of um this this new project can you ask that question again I'm sorry right now the JFK median is not a very well-maintained median you will find Autumn Leaves in March dried vegetation and all of that uh there is a storm water drainage right on the corner of the Marone Plaza as well as near the median um near Eastern Avenue those are not being wellmaintained with this new project will the this new project owner be responsible or handle the aesthetic maintenance of this median no that would be a public works issue thank you and that would be an appropriate question to ask the council thank you Kiki anastas 3204 Enclave Circle Somerset could you spell your last name in for the record a n a s t a sa a Kos thank you very much you're welcome Mr Turner um in order to with all due respect uh and in my effort to avoid uh being um uh told that I am asking the wrong person the wrong question or considered um unqualified and not an expert could you please tell us you're an engineer right since you prepared the engineering report could you tell us again please you probably mentioned it in in your in your last presentation a couple of months ago uh but could you tell us what uh your degree is it uh is it um how is this relevant I I mean you're an engineer in charge of building the building I'm sorry I'm asking him a question and I'm really sadden he's a state licensed engineer I'm really saddened by the totally undemocratic process I am going to the township Council okay that's another night and that's fine and I will wait until the very end of this meeting to give my totally disappointing impression of it's come to my attention that you already asked question you know Mr Thomas your respect in an effort and respectable board members in in an effort to keep in in in in in the order and the process you're turning the process into a very undemocratic and you're turning this board into a very undemocratic board in the name of keeping the process there are people in here that have good enough EXP expertise in addressing the board okay and I think if you're going to be doing the bidding for the developer please tell us so we don't waste our time you should be addressing your questions to the engineer you do not allow me and I plan to complain to the township Council about it because you don't allow any of us whether we're educated or not prepared or not to ask a question ask your question I asked the question please remind us of what kind of engineering background you have so that I can ask you a question are you an electrical engineer are you a mechanical engineer at the risk of incurring more of your wrath it's irrelevant he is he is a certified he's a certified licensed engineer that the board accepted okay the credentials you were on this board you know the procedure I was on the board for a very short time and I'm glad I'm not on the board longer because I would be ashamed to 30 the bo his questioning his college degree and where he got it from is not part of his engineering testimony he's been accepted as an expert okay so at for for the sake of moving forward and and trying to avoid making a spectacle of this meeting okay would you agree Mr Turner that as an engineer responsible for constructing this facility [Music] you despite the fact that the different Specialists and experts quote unquote present different presentations and we are supposed to be here innumerable times hope hoping to meet the right expert to ask our damn question excuse my language would you say that as the person in charge of building this structure you consult with other experts in your team is there a team where you get to get to get together with the environmental expert and with the public safety expert and with the planner and the whole entire list that you gave us on of the people that you plan to present to us Sir Mr chairman or do you work in a silo the chairman I'm not sure what the question is I have haven't heard a question the question is are you part of a team where you consult with the other experts okay stop are you part of a team yes okay next question okay so as an as as a as an engineer are you familiar in charge of constructing this facility this building are you aware of the fact that the old Kmart H the old Kmart building had for 30 years an automotive section that was fully operational and for 30 years used all kinds of benzene and other carcinogenic chemicals this is this is where you cross the answer is are you aware that there was an or motive portion of the Kmart operation when they operated the store in the plaza yes I was aware that there was an automotive are you aware that this was discussed at the first meeting yes it was yes but due to the fact that the respectable board decided to reschedule the meeting several weeks later I'm sure I'm not the only one in the room that has forgotten and I would like like to kindly be reminded of his comments the project will if there are any environmental remediation requirements associated with the the the former Kmart building they will need to be remediated and the site needs to be brought up to residential site standards and certified as such okay so you agree that there is is a past issue no I don't agree that there's a past issue I'm sorry I did not understand then I said there was an I am aware that there was an automotive portion of component in the Kmart building right and if there are any environmental remediation required on the property uh it will be done okay and so then you as as the engineer are not part of this issue of how this remediation I'm sorry let me rephrase my question what is going to be your role if you if they find out that there needs to be remediation as the engineer with a potential of chemicals that have seeped in the ground would you stop building this building or what would you ma'am this is the same issue that was raised before where I've been accused of being condescending Etc the question you're asking is will he be involved relative to any remediation of the property if there is a requirement by the DP to remediate the property the answer is no next question and how do you propose that you are going to be the person responsible for constru the structure without being involved Mr chairman Mr Turner is not responsible for constructing the structure could you please he is a he is a Consulting civil engineer who prepared the site plan his testimony is that if there is a need for remediation it is not going to be him that oversees the remediation that's the answer so can anyone in this room tell tell us today who will be responsible for carrying out the remediation and will Mr Turner become informed of the remediations that have been the potential remediations that have been completed so he can proceed with the plan the engineering part of the plants to construct the structure Mr chairman if I may that remediation issue is an issue that will have to be signed off on by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection not this board this board is responsible for the land use approvals and the land use approval always includes a list of conditions and one of those conditions I am sure is that this property receive all of the appropriate clearances from the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection and so we are we are miles away from that issue this is simply a hearing on Mr Turner's testimony and he did not testify Beyond saying that he was aware that there was a automotive use in the Kmart facility and that if there is a need for remediation it will be remediated to residential site standards that's his testimony and that's what he is answered to again and he would not saying he not Beed what he's also saying I'm sure is the standards of the remediation will not be up to us it'll be under the we'll have nothing to do it we lose the control over all of that including Mr Turner okay so Mr Turner is not is not responsible the St calls the shots they called the shots but the team that Mr LaVine has hired am I right Mr Turner that the team if there is such a thing right which you said there is would discuss how to go about uh taking care of potential carcinogens in in a structure those decisions those decisions those decisions will be made by someone else not us here or them their remediation plan will be given to them and it will be done if it needs it we're assuming it needs to be done we don't have control over D I know that and there's it doesn't sound like it Mr chairman nothing in the record I happen to have a PhD in political science I do know what the D does thank you very much okay good Mr Turner yes it's very good as a matter of fact and he comes in very handy Mr Turner um would you agree that this entire process and do you as a professional feel that this is a very compartmentalized very siloed process that that this this group has created in an effort to keep us mere citizens from asking questions that are a little broader and outside the strict and very limited parameters of your professional expertise do you think as a professional that this is a fair a fair process that I cannot ask questions that go an inch beyond your professional expertise do you feel that this is ethical Mr Turner is not here to opine on the process he's not here to Aline upon the rules he's here to Aline upon the report he's prepared and the plans he's prepared which he has done and he's prepared to answer questions about that the question that was just asked has nothing to do with his testimony has nothing to do with the report he's prepared and he's not going to answer that question thank you and of course you wouldn't want him to answer questions that are Beyond or outside of his expertise of course why would you want him to to talk about something he knows nothing about yes I agree it was simply why I asked the question a so-called rhetorical question thank [Applause] you good ask that 10 webs Road um sir I believe there's another woman behind you who has not asked a question you might want to letter uh good evening uh Louise Loff 27 Bedford Road in Somerset just have a couple questions um I'd like to know how Levan will um remediate the Kmart building in framing it as a former covid testing site another words do you plan to do any Discovery to see if there are any lingering potential for viruses how will you handle this it function as a covid test that's outside the scope of this individual's testimony if at some point along the way Mr wisuki intends to call a representative from 11 properties that may be the more appropriate time to ask that question okay I'm sorry I thought this was related to environmental my second question has to do I believe with engineering uh Somerset County has repeatedly declared easn Avenue as a grade F Highway a uh a grade F Highway uh that um H has produced one of the most uh highest fatality rates in Somerset County so my question is what remediation measures for this unique proposed development will take place to minimize the impact of more steady traffic onto Eastern Avenue and have you coordinated your efforts at all with Somerset County who uh believes uh E Avenue to be uh major danger spot as far as uh vehicle traffic is concerned so I think that's a more appropriate question for another witness there will be a traffic engineer that provides testimony will they be from Somerset County or from your firm no they're they were hired by the applicant as a professional and they can opine in regards to your question in regards to safety of eastn Avenue and uh any of the comments that we might have received from Somerset County okay and um will will uh Somerset County also be part of these hearings to give their pers perspective no application made to Somerset County plan Somerset County does give us a report and they will be involved in any improvements or or effect that this project has on East Avenue they send us as I mentioned before one of these numerous reports that we get in our our packet that we when we get to that point in the hearing uh we'll see there'll be a letter from Somerset County they recommend XYZ or they recommend nothing or they recommend whatever they do they are involved yes okay thank you those are my questions thank you ma'am hello my name is John Al trais l i t r a k i s I live at 85 Arlington a Somerset my questions is uh regarding what Provisions have you put in for children playing and people walking their dog on your property there there are again pedestrian sidewalks there are open space I'm not talking about that I'm saying for them kids sir if you want him to answer the question you have to let them answer the question you may not like the answer but get L the Leal let them answer it right immediately around the new building there are open space areas people can walk their dogs uh and uh and all the way around the building there's Green Space all the way around and then there other lawn areas um immediately within the area that they can also take their dog uh for a walk and uh in terms of uh children playing this is no different than another apartment complex that you know you see anywhere in the state of New Jersey uh we have some uh dedicated open space areas that are located in the uh without the upper right yep so we have an open space and event area that's in the upper right corner I'll identify that by direction for the record it's uh it's in the uh North what I'll call the northeast corner of the uh parking lot uh it's on the outside of the parking area it's about 10,000 square ft and that area there can accommodate certain special events you know people coming and meeting and and and they can do a number of different things within that area and then in the building as well there are a number of accommodations for uh people to utilize and in the back of the building you can see uh in the insights here there are a number of areas and and there'll be an architect that can very much detail what's in here in terms of the components that are provided for the for the residents Visions for people to sit and watch their kids and stuff in that open area yeah the the architect will testify to that but yes now you had a question the other day when you had your meeting that you said that they couldn't put a big box store in the space where Kar was but why couldn't you move take all the stores down to where the Chinese restaurant was and make a giant Box Store there well the reason for that is there are current tenants in that building that I I again I I don't want to testify to what their terms are but I don't think they can just necessarily be tossed out of that building uh you're you're asking for uh the retail component of this property to be reduced in order to potentially put a big box user in and you have to remember though a big box user on this property uh would have to be designed to the current big box user standards with the required number of parking spaces and that would start to impact other users on this property specifically Stop and Shop and I think there was testimony at the last meeting uh from the owner uh that these big box retailers are simply just not interested in coming here you may not like to hear that but that's the reality I guess I'm I I don't like hearing it but uh I mean our Town's the only town we look at our next town over Piscataway they got stores everywhere we have none in our town that's ridiculous totally ridiculous it's not your not up to you but that's totally ridiculous anyway I said my peace thank you okay thank you Kyle aad 10 Webster um can you refresh my memory is the uh is there an awning in the front there is that what the the gray box is I I don't want to misspeak so we'll let the architect address that I do believe it's an overhang but again I don't want to misspeak so these these could very well be for the architect so let me know if so um so you don't know if there's a if there is an awning so you wouldn't know the height of the awning right Mr chairman if I could just interject if if you have questions about the design of the building or features of the building the next witness is the architect oh perfect unless you have other questions I'll save it for the architect then thank you hey thank you hello Linda raymondi uh H Drive Somerset it's apparent to me never having attended a zoning board meeting that it does not work like a Township council meeting and I think there are a lot of us that were not aware of it not everybody but myself and a couple of others it almost works like a trial with a judge and Witnesses and you state your question you get your answer and you leave I am I pretty I would say Mr that in 40 Years of doing this is the most concise description of what these people do that I have ever heard okay so try to understand gentlemen and ma'am but some of us were not aware of that myself s included do we get to know from each meeting because I could see this is going to go on and on and on which people are going to be testifying if that's a good word to use like right now we have the poor engineer who's being peted with whatever like when will we get to hear the environmental person the traffic person the the you know all those different can that be put in the email that you sent out to us telling us we're having a zoning board meeting so we know who's going to be there and have our questions prepared for that particular individual I think Mr rusi has indicated that he's planning on calling tonight maybe uh an architect the architect that's the first I heard that so how do we know that in advance is there any way to know that in advance really no way to know in advance who he's going to call to the extent that he may be able to indicate that before the hearing is closed and or may be able to advise the planning department in advance of the hearing who will be called and I don't wish to put any more burden on Mr Healey or Miss Woodburry but that's about the only way you're going to find out which is by the way no different than any other trial you you never quite know who's going to get called at any given day depending upon availability and Witnesses and the like except for who's coming and who Mr wisuki will advise us I assume at the end of this meeting who he plans on calling next assuming we finish with the architect okay so Mr zalinski I can't address him um I can only speak to Mr Turner and I don't have a Mr Turner question but so there's really no way to know in advance Mr Turner do you agree with that question yes and I appreciate no questions too thank you well I they he will he did say the order of witnesses I believe at the beginning he did the problem with that is you know a witness gets sick something happens they don't show up you spend a month two weeks planning questions you show up and then we have other issues like that so it does get announced at the beginning of the meeting I must have missed that well I think we can say again at the end of the meeting what your tenative plans are for the next one for the next one yes and that's a a small thing to do I hello Katherine sportx X Larsson so I want to talk about soil so can I talk to you about soil spell your last name for the record p o r t a c k I'm quite famous in this town let's get off to the to a good start you're going to ask the engineer questions about his testimony yes but can I ask him about if they pertain to soil go right to it I just was checking before half got started okay so what kind of soil is on the site primarily let me get the report out and I can tell you what it is so in the environmental assessment report that was prepared by my office there is a section on soils we do a general uh inventory of soils based on published data uh the soils here are this is on page four thank you page four it's section 3.1.2 soils and most of the soils that are on site uh that are within the soil survey of Somerset County uh include uh kinville LOM and then we have a table summarizing various parameters of that type of soil so to the lay person because I don't study dirt uh is it known for good drainage it has moderate drainage permeability rates which is the way uh soil geotechnical Engineers uh calculate drainage of soils uh this particular soil generally has a permeability rating of anywhere between 6 in in an hour to 2 in an hour so if you go a little bit below that there's a little note and it says the soil survey can you read that to me uh the soil survey indicates kinville soils are shallow soils on narrow divides rof can be rapid and erosion Hazard can be severe so is Kmart on a slope that goes downward towards a canal that's filled with water no Kmart's on a flat pad we're removing front is on a slope but we're not doing anything in the front of this property it has no okay but it is elevated it is elevated the the Kmart building and this new building is certainly elevated in relationship to East Avenue question thank you so do you agree with me that water runs downhill yes and what is downhill in that direction can now am I right yes across from E Avenue the canal fantastic so can you tell me how many times has E Avenue flooded particularly around that area in the last few years have you studied that no but you said that there's really no impact there isn't because what we do is we analyze the impact relating to the existing condition the existing condition on this property is has a certain coverage the proposed condition will reduce that coverage and that's what our drainage calculations that are reviewed by professionals here in this office as well as soil erosion Conservation District Somerset County Delaware R and Canal commission they all review what we're proposing and we are obligated to comply with their requirements okay so but you did mention earlier it was mentioned that like water is increasing four times consumption so if there is a drainage issue you're increasing volume you're up on a hill that runs towards a canal that is prone to flooding ma'am two parts one no one has testified that the there'll be an increase in water or four times that I'm aware of there was a statement made by a member the public that the there will be an increase in potential sewer four times secondly is that's sanitary sewer not not drainage sewer correct sanary sewer so thank you Mark is there now a question yes do you believe in climate change first first of all he didn't testify to climate change so beyond ttim but it's in the report so I address climate change that's exactly what the report says it does not address climate change so why doesn't the report address climate change it's an existential threat do you not agree with me if do you not pay attention to the a questioner would like to bring a witness an expert witness to provide that information to the board we would be happy to look at that report and respond to it so you must live in a closet or a hole if you don't know about client easy now ma'am Mr chairman Mr chair know how do you not know talk nice okay I don't mean it that way I'm just saying you must live well the way it sounds I apologize all I'm saying is Mr chairman can I ask can I make a suggestion all I hear about is climate change I think the essence of some of her questions are talking about storm water runoff and whether there's I would think the concern if she's talking about climate change and flooding she's talking about whether going to be potential drainage or storm water impacts I believe Mr Turner provided some testimony at the last meeting it might be helpful if Mr Turner summarizes some of that testimony that he gave at the last meeting because I think that might be somewhat your me to her questions good idea so I I can do that and at the initial meeting I I did testify to the storm water management system there is an existing system on site we have to modify that system in order to accommodate this new building we've also have to uh meet all of the obligations of the storm water management rules and regulations that are uh that were in place at the time this application was deemed complete and we have done so okay so next question so if you have done so then how come you don't know how many times it's flooded in the last few years because it's irrelevant to what we're doing on the site so let's say this gets approved and then there is increased flooding more so let me just State how many times it's flooded so it's on the record it's flooded next it's quite frequent it unless you're going to testify and you got material to show that it is gerain to this application ask a question gerain to the witnesses testimony please okay so then I have a question then for you so let's say this gets approved and then there's increased flooding and the poor people cannot get down East Avenue or out of their homes especially on Foxwood Drive they're constantly getting flooded out what is the recourse uh I would suggest at the appropriate time if and when we ever get to that situation at sometime in the unforeseeable future that is an issue to be addressed either to the township or to the county depending on which road they can and cannot get out of so you're saying we just have to deal with the aftermath any more than any other application and any other storm water issue but if you know something is potentially going to lead to increased flooding we're just supposed to like close our eyes and say okay let's look for that unfortunately I think the answer to this question and Mr Turner if you could you know I gave you a question I actually wish you had answered it more completely because what I recall from your testimony at the last meeting was that there's actually going to be a decrease in impervious coverage and an increase in the amount of soft surfaces like grass and Landscape area compared to existing can you summarize that testimony that you gave last meeting and I don't recall if you're doing any type of water quality treatment if there is if there's not state it if there is some type of water quality treatment measures you're implementing please describe that to the board I can do that so yes we we are decreasing the amount of impervious coverage on this property 7 88.6% exists on the site today which creates you asked to could you please let him answer the question 73 the the 78.6 existing impervious coverage will be reduced to 73.2% that in and amongst itself will reduce the flow from this property into the existing drainage system that's just how it works we've also provided on the property around this building water quality structures that we are required to do in accordance with the njd and DNR Canal commission standards we are also required to obtain their approvals and part of their approvals are rigorous reviews of the stormwater management system and not only from DNR but it will also come from Somerset County who review their drainage system in the road and if they think we're having an impact on their system they will if they think there's something we need to do to address it they will point it out so if I remember correctly they were asking for you to reduce it even further and there was discussion that you were not inclined to do so do you want to refresh my memory was that the case I think what we said from what I recall is that we would look at the possibility of land banking some parking to reduce some of the impervious coverage on the site uh we we can do that uh but in my opinion it doesn't get it doesn't make a significant enough change where it would really improve the drainage situation that we're currently proposing uh we can get ourselves from 73% down to maybe 72 in my opinion it's it's really not uh we could certainly do it we can certainly Land Bank some parking but we also have to make sure we have enough parking to accommodate all of the activity on the property so we can reduce the impervious coverage but it doesn't really make a difference in terms of storm water management so you're telling me you're concerned about parking which tells me there's even more people going to be going that no that's not what I said you're putting words in my mouth that's not what I said I said we have to make sure we have enough parking on site to accommodate the development I don't think I have any more questions thank you um I believe there's someone who wants to speak who hasn't spoken eating more um Alex Strauss 28 Alex Strauss 285 Haslet way um raised mostly in levit went to mcab school my cousins raised mostly in Foxwood and went to connly so I know the area um now Mr Turner sir you um early in your testimony you alluded to the Garden Apartments to the South and West correct um which complex is in the south is that uh the park in Franklin Franklin greens would you agree with that okay in terms of the name I don't remember the name okay do you know departments yeah do you know how many units are in those G departments no 648 does that sound right I don't know okay and and you're where you're talking about pedestrian whatever so you know there's a sidewalk on JFK right yes currently okay and you're aware that there are other ways as well to get to the center right uh from from those car departments as well right through the fence Etc I'm not sure okay what you want me to how you want me to answer that that's fine that's fine sir um basically okay you talked about the uh you comply with storm Wonder standards sir um is there anything that says you can't exceed the storm water standards is there anything written down that you you're allowed to exceed them right yes okay um has there been any um Talk for instance I mean we just talked about flooding Etc in the past has there been any talk for in in since you're going to be breaking ground disturbing the pavement of having say some kind of underground tank as a holding tank underground that could then release Hoboken is doing it but then can release water after the flooding potential flooding has you know um is over um have you talked about that no no you haven't okay um how about any kind of say rain garden and also you know chairman shepher was talking about perious and pavement what could be done there um we talked about and Miss sportac was just talking about that there's an elevation or there's a decline how about like a rain Garden um especially as it as the as the property towards the McDonald's since there's a slope maybe like a Rain G with some stones and things like that um that could naturally flow there and sort of like a holding maybe be absorbed through there have you talked about that have you for no and it was never part of my testimony that we would provide something like that my testimony is that we would comply with the regulations that we have to comply with you have comply with them okay all right um let me ask you about what's on the board right now I mean what's what's posted um uh right now we see that's that's the plan as you're going to be as going to be constructed right um so you see a lot of trees and whatever um let me ask you um there was some testimony earlier last time Kiki anastasios mentioned people tend to walk diagonally would you kind of agree with that that they they go from the shortest distance between two points they don't necessarily stick with say a sidewalk if they're going to stop and shop that's what I'm ask we're now getting into opinion testimony okay I mean there's a question he'll answer it with that is that PO okay um okay could could is it possible you can post please the current situation that would be page three of the site plan sheets page three on the site plan sheets please that's the current that's the current that's not all those trees okay okay that's good so um basically if I can if I can go up there for a moment um basically what we see here is there's a stand of trees up here right okay of the near the top now that stand of trees right there would you agree is no longer there because they're building the sidewalk for McDonald's so would you agree with that that stand of trees right there on the left side of the axis Road it's not there anymore right I I don't believe they are okay second thing is this stand of trees so that's the best stand of trees currently still in existence would you agree with that that's an opinion I'm not okay all right answer that okay would you agree that that stand of trees is going to be knocked out by your sidewalk would you agree with that sir that stand of trees will no longer be there because you're going to put a sidewalk in and there's no other place for it potentially that stand of trees will be uh removed but replaced with other trees right now it's among really it's really the best stand of trees currently right the best standard trees during this tremendous heat wave and it's the best stand of trees on that property exclusive of the perimeter I'm talking about within the asphalt desert okay that is the best stand it's about 10 trees right would you agree with that sir would you agree with that yes okay so that's going to be terms of the number of trees yes is there is there a question well I'm just I just wanted some agreement that that he agrees that there are 10 trees there okay and okay but that that those trees will be knocked out he he already said by side okay is there another place to put the sidewalk sir That Sidewalk going to stop and shop that's not really that's shortest distance between two points so people might have not even use it right is there another place to put that sidewalk no we placed the sidewalk in where we think is the most appropriate and safe location for the sidewalk to be installed and we place placed trees in other areas that allow us to accommodate the sidewalk and all of those trees are going to make it they're all going to be healthy and fine is there going to be a sprinker system I I don't know I don't know if there will be sprinklers or not but there will be uh a maintenance bond in place that is obligated to uh for the township uh to protect the trees and that will allow U an inspection of those trees and if those trees die they must be replaced right right but we have mature trees now okay all right um let me ask you since we're getting into pedestrian first of all there was a person uh her name was Deborah last time she talked about um people ask ask a question please of his testimony yes well can I ask with people commenting and then he he answered ask a question you don't need to you don't need to delve into who asked the question why they ask the question Etc ask the question okay going around the building sir going around the building you said you said that garbage trucks Etc would not be uh they won't be going that route okay around the perimeter is that correct they won't be going around the residential portion of the property how do you know that because we've looked at the truck movements M would it surprise you if I told you that there was a tractor trailer taking up the entire length of the parking lot behind the Dollar Tree that blocked that whole area I can I can rce pictures of that too okay um okay so let me ask you from engine from the engineering standpoint could you have some kind of um fencing in the back as it goes around the perimeter and the apartment building ends could you have a fencing that could also have an access code for emergency vehicles but it be fencing to discourage people from driving around and possibly hitting a child or God knows what could that was that discussed it was never discussed uh it's not part of the application not part of the application okay let's talk about parking um somebody also mentioned um about the fact that is in a flood zone and that's why you couldn't have underground parking so okay let me just get to the question could you have underground parking in the building I I I don't know the we have we haven't studied that it's not part of the appli that okay we have we have adequate surface parking for the for the project okay was it brought up the security the carolite converters everything else being stolen like the 24-hour shopping basically we're going to have there I I don't know how that's relevant okay okay and Mr chairman I'll just note for the record there was a report from the police department that did not have any uh of those concerns was submitted as part of the review of this application well I think there should have been okay um and there's no fencing also you have that gang lot basically in front right where most of the people are going to park there's no there's no proposed fencing for that no security fencing no no there's no security fencing at all you're going to have like those flashing blue lights with the solar panels and everything flashing Blue Light Special before with Kmart now you're going to have those is it going to be that kind of security I don't understand that question okay all right those cameras okay all right you don't know about that okay um how many people are going to be driving from the apartment building do you think to to the um to the stopping shop know it's cold it's wet it's dark everything else was part of his testimony you're asking for speculation be it so so you're you're quite confident Mr Turner that um this is a good pedestrian uh plan right and and you are right it's been asked and answered several times okay now somebody mentioned dogs somebody mentioned dogs um let's talk about that for a moment is there curbing everywhere where people can walk their dogs is there Curbing and everything curbs and such on the sidewalks yes okay actually there are not okay from where the um Venus jewers is is is and all the way down down to to the crunch there's no curbing there are columns every 13 ft or so there's no curbing have you ever seen a child or or or dog kind of wander into the street okay let me ask a question then is there is there a plan to have grading on the on the road right in front of the sidewalk and then put a curb there is that part of your is that part of your plan to grade to to take down the pavement level and put curbs there where there no curbs the or you talking about in front of the existing shopping center exactly thank you in front of the whole strip basically the whole strip and then continuing the main strip and continuing right up into the crunch there's no curbing so we are we're proposing new concrete curbing and I'll I'll just it on the exhibit if you can see the cursor right starting at the what I'll call the northeast corner of the Residential Building heading south and turning into and across the front of the existing shopping center this is all new curb all the way across and it ties into the existing curb that's in front of uh the the Dollar Tree and the Crunch fitness and the other vacant building so you're putting curbing there even though the pavement level is level with the sidewalk So you you're you're going to accomplish that yes you are okay okay um let me ask you about the um okay okay okay um had a couple other things okay um truck access the trucks um the Stop and Shop trucks you know where they move right the Stop and stop trucks there's no impact of the Stop and Shop truck movements okay well you know how the tractor trailers leave like they it's a oneway and in the back going toward toward toward Eastern Avenue and then they curve around but they can't because of the Chase Bank and everything often they go in front of the Stop and Shop and then they hang a left so they would go on your the access road right and they would you know they conflict with people walking and everything and then they make that that right to go down right you know that it it's no different than any other shopping center that would have a supermarket or a large box retailer the trucks have to circulate throughout the center okay all right so that's that's not a uh that's not a a uh something [Music] um fire fire prevention can I talk about fire prevention not engineering is it architectural we didn't have an architect testimony yet okay Mr chairman I'm not sure what fire prevention means what what's the question um it's okay I can I ask the architect then or should I that be the next person architect hasn't testified okay I'll save it for then then um let me okay all right blah blah blah blah blah blah blah okay so um let me ask you something sir um so obviously you're aware that it was a Kmart it was never anything but a department store right it was a glance before so are you concerned the fact that it's like dug out and the reason let me tell you why I'm asking that don't um okay ask the question the hills it's it gets very okay it gets very hilly as you go in the back it gets very hilly so what's what the implication with kids running up and down the hill causing erosion and are you going to fix that okay if because kids don't have a Level Playing Field literally okay they're supposed to go to that little spot that you're creating is this a city or a suburb it's a suburb right they're supposed to be happy with that little poached stamp that they're getting right that's what they're supposed to do nobody forces somebody to move in they're going to know what they have wow for okay accommodations I don't know how else you want me to answer that question okay wow okay all right that's all I have thank you just just quick for my benefit you uh did say that play area was 10,000 square fet yes Mr chairman it was 10,000 square F feet okay so quarter of an acre post each stamp that's relative to the suburban area uh chair Thom but it's an apartment complex so we'll see anyone else wish to speak go ahead AB by what Mr Connell said why in Amo WR give us give us your name again for the recorder Carl Schmidt 134 Hickory Road Somerset New Jersey why an AM meno written report and during your prepared testimony on April 4th was the use of hazardous chemicals including carcinogens for over 30 years on the site not mentioned in those reports we've been over this territory before Mr chairman it's not in the report it's not in the report that's not part of what he's testified to if the witness wants next bring witness they talk about in their report public health and safety this goes directly to public health and safety and I go and I go back again Mr Schmid to the comment I made roughly an hour and 20 minutes ago that if you have an individual or individuals who you wish to call as a witness or provide testimony with backup reports so that everyone knows what the witness is going to say and what was potentially testified you are more than welcome to do so but you cannot get information in from this witness that isn't in his report under the grounds that somehow he left it out even if he did you can't get it in through him can I testify no not unless you're going to indicate that you are expert ask a question would you believe me if I told you that for 30 years I inspected facilities such as this for the DP and observed this type of operation and specifically I took my car to this facility and have it serviced there and saw what they did there you you you had a shot I had a shot right up till you said you took your car car there yes if you had indicated on the record that you have a prior experience on behalf of the state with reports that you have examined the facility in question as a member an employee of the New Jersey State Department of Environmental Protection then maybe you could testify if you produce those reports relative to what you observed going into the Kmart as a customer doesn't do it even if you have prior experience working for the anj D I agree it's getting scary on but I made my I have made my point thank you no you cluttered the record with one more thing the answer is if you've got stuff bring it I just and let Mr winki deal with it hi everyone Deborah Foster 31 Buttonwood Drive um forgive me as well it's my first time at a meeting at all so it's very interesting and I do appreciate everybody up there um my question is for the little um the area I think you said it's 10,000 square ft what kind of am memodies are going to be are in the plans for that is it like barbecuing or what would the plans be for that type of area honestly it it has not been completely vetted out uh it's there uh there may be uh some benches there may be some other um things that could be done in that area that we would work with the architect and perhaps the architect would provide some testimony if he has ideas in mind in terms of how to utilize that open space area we wanted to make sure that we had it on the site plans as an available space we provided the sidewalks around there we've provided some Landscaping in that area we've identified a corner uh where we had shown maybe possibly some brick pavers we have a couple of benches in that area but that area certainly is a work in progress it is there to be further detailed okay because I just um keep in mind and we don't want to clutter the area too excuse me I we don't want to put too much in there it's meant to be a community space and open area so that people can use it for different purposes all right I understand that is that um meant to be just dedicated for just the apartment dwellers or could it be anyone no I it would be for the apartment uh the people that are there for the apartments but I don't know who else would use it frankly okay cuz if it's like a open nice space I can imagine anyway oh let's take a break over there but um also just keep in mind that um even if it was just for the apartment dwellers if it's a nice space whatever you tend to hey you know let's invite family let's have a a you know party Etc and then they're going to invite even more more people and you have to keep in mind parking spaces if the apartment space is dedicated you're going to have even more people just parking in the main shopping area to just walk over which is still crossing back and forth to go to a park and he knows what kind of function it's like I don't know you keep in mind if you don't want barbecue and all that people tend to invite you know others sure um and my next question was what type of I don't know if it's a transportation question so let me know if it is but what type of um what has been thought out as far as um picking up where buses like what side of the road has anything that plan is there a bus out pickup it it hasn't been determined yet uh that would be done through the Board of Education generally uh will someone on the team will interact with them to determine what is required I don't know frankly where the nearest bus stop is uh there may be one required here on site I don't know okay my question cuz I know I take sit now personally myself all the time I know there's some apartments on you know on the other side of my Coney Plaza and when those buses they kind of have to turn into that little section and stop there and let people off and then they come out but it's right off at East AAL and I was wondering if that would be the same thing with kids being dropped off either coming or going from the apartment what side of the street how that would work with buses stopping got traffic going and the safety for that and just so just to refresh your memory and everybody else's memory in terms of the breakdown in terms of units there's 200 units 69 of those units are one-bedroom units and there's 123 two bedrooms there's only eight three-bedroom units so there's not a significant amount of three bedroom units there's two bedroom units and one bedroom units is that replying to the number of uh people you're or children you're trying to yeah just give you some assessment in terms of you know how many bedrooms there are for people that may think they want to come with families yeah people cram children into one bedroom that's all you can for these days and the eight bedrooms are the part of the affordable component okay thank you very much thank you so Mr chairman uh just over here so um two just a follow-up question um so I know I understand that you don't know where um if there's going to be a bus stop you know whether would whether there would be one on site or not but can you just briefly describe uh if you've designed the site to accommodate the movements the turn movements for a school bus on site well yeah the site is can accommodate truck movements not tractor trailers necessary but truck movements so they can accommodate a bus um depending on where that bus stop may be located uh there's adequate turning radiuses throughout this area for them to get in and then turn themselves around okay and then at the last meeting I there's there was somebody who asked a question about truck movements so can you describe if there's two main retail buildings under this scenario you still have the Stop and Shop building and then you have the existing retail building can you describe for each one to show the board how where the trucks would come in serve that building and then then exit the site so for for Stop and Shop my assumption is that they would come in from eastn Avenue and come into the site and head up the hill and then get to one of the intersections more than likely the intersection near the residential component and then they would make the left and head towards the stopping shop head towards the south side of the stopping shop and make another left to the rear of the building do their unloading and then wrap themselves around in a c counter clockwise Direction and then head back out towards eastn Avenue now if they went the other way they could also do it the other way um so that movement is I believe the way they do that now in terms of the existing shopping center with the multi-tenant um with all the with all the tenants in it same thing they would come in from Easton Avenue head up the hill down the the main what I'll call the Main Service Drive head to towards the residential component and then they can either make that same left that the Stop and Shop deliveries would do uh and then come across head towards Stop and Shop and then they would make a right as opposed to making the left to go to the back of stopping shop they' make a right and then head back along the side of the retail building and then they would do their unloading at the back of the back of that shopping center and then the way they would get out is is they would make the uturn around the middle parking aisle and we will provide the town with truck turning movements to identify that they can make and accommodate the uh those movements and then they would come back and they're basically making a U-turn and they would come back out the same way they came in behind the commercial building okay so you you so I heard you say that you will provide those turning movements is how would how would you prevent or or at least deter the trucks from not making that U-turn and going around the retail I mean the residential building we would do it with signage first off and then it would be up to uh the property management team if they see that that's a problem they will have to address it if a truck were to go straight and go around that building can they even make those turns yeah yes yes they can go along the back of that building make the right parallel with JFK Boulevard then they can make another right and come across the front of the building get to the main four-way intersection where that service driveway is and then make the left and go out right so let me you know this may be a question that our fire prevention official will will will hit me for but if if it was to be allowable from a from a emergency access uh perspective Ive would you have any uh and maybe you want to talk to your client any objection to having more affirmative ways to prevent trucks from going around the building and making sure the trucks do that U-turn don't go around the residential portion I I would I would say initially we can certainly take a look at that but I would like to confer with our CL my client to see what he would be amenable to and I I I wouldn't speculate on what that could be I'd like to have some time to think about that but there may be ways to do that okay thank you I would say I'm sorry down the road I would probably be advocating for some sort of uh public bus service New Jersey transit to have an actual stop on site okay uh I don't know if people remember it but that this used to be a big bus depot for senior citizens back in in early uh late 7s when they picked them all up and took them to the casinos every day and brought them back and that was the it has a history of a of a bus stop but I would think they would be interested in service to New Brunswick and Bound Brook train stations is there a current bus line on eastn Avenue yes okay I'm sorry go ahead I'm Vanessa Davenport learnington way Somerset I just want to look that sorry talk closer to the mic I'm Vanessa DAV got to get real close this I'm Vanessa Davenport um learnington way Somerset I just want a little clarification because I think I didn't miss it but if I did forgive me I'm hearing you talk about trucks coming in from Easton Avenue what's to prevent them from coming in from JFK I came behind one that came down JFK and made that turn in I didn't stay to see how what what all was transpiring after that but what's to stop them from coming in that way why aren't you addressing that nothing they can come in through that way as well if they come if the truck route is for them to come down JFK Boulevard then they could make the turn uh that's an existing driveway we're not making any modifications to that driveway now my assumption is that if the trucks do use that entrance it's not a problem now it won't be a problem when uh you know with this proposal well now if they come in that way they can go straight toward stop a shop but if but on this they would have to make that right they would make a right turn yeah they would make a right turn and then uh you know follow the movements that I explained earlier that's a turn that they could negotiate we we'll make sure we look at that uh I'm looking at it now it looks like it may be a little tight and we can maybe widen that out a little bit but that's that's not a problem thank you thank you okay thank you it looks like we're winding down on this is there anyone else now who would like to this point we might as well get all of it exhausted uh Terry thoron 18 Leed Drive um is there any reason why you chose to with the storm water system you chose a 25e storm level rather than 100 that's what we required based on the current standards for this particular application where we're doing basically a Redevelopment okay would it surprise you to know in the last 25 years uh Hurricane Floyd dropped 15 Ines in Franklin super storm Sandy 12 in and Ida uh 7.6 all above the uh 6.7 that you have for the 25 year and and we did in our report we have a storm motor management report dated October 26 2023 we have an analysis that goes up to the 100-year storm event really because the um storm water management report I have from your application says you you're using the 25 year one and the 25e storm is used for Designing pipes underground pipes okay when we analyze runoff run run off from a a development we we calculate that for a multitude of storms the water quality storm the 2year storm the 10e storm 25 and then the 100e storm the 25e storm you're referring to is the standard that's required to design the underground storm pipes but if we do end up with another Floyd with 15 in would that system be able to handle it the new current runoff rats accommodate the historical rain from those storms okay and I have one this is kind of a silly question but why did you put a swimming pool between two four-story buildings are they going to get any sunlight there I I think that's better answered by the architect it just seems odd to me that they would they would have it where they probably will only get sun during the two equinoxes during the year when the sun's directly overhead at noon I think I'd like to have that architect answer that question thank you anyone else Marl Schmid 134 Hickory wrote I'm sorry but I just want a clarification the people that are going to be testifying uh that are going to be be giving their comments can you just tell us I'm wondering who's going to be doing the planning comments the variance comments the traffic comments and the population questions so we know so we know who to ask the questions we we said we would do that the end of the meeting okay thank you slowly I write slowly thank you last call okay then we close to the public I don't think you want to start the architect unfortunately because we would be let's put it this way we would be left in a position where his or her testimony would be completed and then we would need to reschedule the hearing for the public some distance whatever it would be away he's waited patiently all night H he's waited patiently all night he's here but we wouldn't I don't think we will have the time to give the public at the end of his testimony that's what I'm so I understand but similar to Mr Turner he testified at the last meeting we spent most of the night entertaining questions about you do have a point then that's true so we might might as well take them uh let's do one thing too before we all get ready to rush out because another comment was was made that was very upsetting this is not going to be heard or finished tonight so what's the next date and for that person who made that comment if I had my way we would continue this tomorrow or next week or the week after unfortunately we have to accommodate many people's schedules and obligations so sometimes there are two or three weeks between a meeting like tonight and the next time that it's scheduled but did you have a chance to talk with your people I think tentatively we're okay with August 1 I mean I haven't been able to reach everybody on the team but I think obviously we're going to have to even if we start Dave tonight Mr minnow we're going to have questions for him at the next meeting so and who would come after Mr minnow uh our traffic expert okay so it's going to be architecture and then traffic we're we have other we don't have any availability in July it would be August and and I had discussed that with the attorney when he first came in to make sure that he had an opportunity to speak with his uh professionals to make sure that they would be available for August 1st I've spoken to some not all um which for the public is another consideration we have 45 days in which to act on an application and there are other applications already scheduled so we can't necessarily just bump everybody to continue this one week after week after week even though we all up here would probably like to hear it next week or at the next meeting it's not possible and we have to deal with it Mr chairman I'm just going to throw an idea out there I don't know if the board would want to entertain this but um would the board um be willing to entertain meeting at 6:30 or 7 as opposed to 7:30 just so you'd have more time for each you know you might have more opportunity for you know again more questions of the public and the board then any comments from board members 6:30 I'm okay with it I'm here I would be okay 6:30 okay with you and I'm assuming everyone's listening we're going to try for a 6:30 you need a mo Mr chairman you need a motion change the time the date the time of the August 1st hearing Mark we have a motion to change the August first 1 second question is it just for this one meeting or is it is the change going to be just for the next meeting that okay y okay I had the same question things the date the time of the August 1st meeting 6:30 p.m. at the municipal building the notice will be given to the appropriate newspapers and placed on the website Etc to ensure that the public knows that the date that the time of the meeting has been changed yes we'll have to do an open public meetings act notice well board has to First approve the change of the time uh is there a motion I move all second all fa this all in favor or roll call all favor all in favor I oppos motion carried it will be at 6:30 August 1st Mr wisi yes Mr chairman BR on you're GNA you're GNA have Mr minino and your next witness whoever that may be available on August 1st yes okay your architect thank you our general uh policy and Rule was not starting new testimony after 10:00 it is not 10:00 so the architect will go to to completion but there will the meeting will end at that point completion his testimony so Mr chairman well I'm going to suggest to myself board members and the public to let's just let him do his testimony don't interrupt them write your questions down and on August 1st at 6:30 if any board has any questions if I have any questions the public has any questions everybody's under the same rules write your questions down and be prepared August 1 to to ask those questions at that time okay good suggestion okay just be with us one second he's getting his uh electronics up and running while that's happening we can uh swear the witness if he is paying attention raise your right hand please testimony of bats gives truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth shall help your God yes State your full name spell your last name for the record state by whom you were employed and your credentials um one second uh my name is David J minnow m i n u my credentials I'm a registered architect in the state of New Jersey I've been uh registered since 1979 I'm a principal in minow and wasow Architects and planners which is a about a 100 person architecture and planning firm specializing in multif family residential architecture located where Mr minow we're located we have two offices one in Lambertville New Jersey and one in Newark New Jersey I will accept those qualifications as an expert and that ends the discussion on qualifications and expert he's been accepted all right you ready hey Mr chairman we call David minnow to be our architectural expert witness David I'm going to turn the floor over to you if you would please uh for the board run through the plans and discuss uh the reviews that we've received from the municipality uh good evening um I'm proud to present this project I'm going to be talking about two components of it one is the architecture for the 200 unit multif family building on the side of the old Kmart and then I'm going to be discussing a uh a facelift to the retail portion of the building adjacent to the residential building so um I'm going to be talking about both items uh this building is designed as a a fully modern Residential Building when I say modern it will have modern amenities it'll have uh all the things that people are really looking for in today's multif family apartment buildings and it'll also have the proper Services now they're basic small things that people don't think about but things like package delivery how do we handle packages and mail in a large building today with people getting hundreds of packages from Amazon and other sources um so we've really worked to accommodate that we've got a building that um has a great deal of uh in interior and exterior open space and amenity spaces and I'd like to describe that if I could um the main entry to the building and let me move to my second exhibit is see if you can see my cursor the main entry to our building is off of a layby lane in front of the building and this is this creates like a motorcourt atmosphere where people can be picked up and dropped off at this entry it gives a place for a small Amazon truck to sit for a few minutes as they unload and deliver packages but it creates the sense of an address and that's something that we think is important for every residential project and it is adjacent to the quarter acre park across the street we think that it creates a landscaped opportunity there to create a beautiful entry uh as you enter the building we have our main lobby which has a small leasing area has a mail room and package store storage area directly in that yellow area in the front of the building and then the two lavender shaded areas you immediately see through that Lobby see right through to the outdoor Courtyards through a club room on the left and uh there's an exercise facility with Windows out to the courtyard on the right hand side our main we have two main elevators in this Lobby and we have a third elevator on the side Lobby toward JFK uh one of the reasons why we have the lobby on the JFK side is we do have a fair amount of additional parking along that side but that's also where building management will schedule movein and movein occur slowly over time and they're scheduled events and they're scheduled with very small trucks people cannot bring a Allied Van Line to this property when a person signs a lease they enter into a movein program that says even if they have a lot of furniture which not many people do for a one or two bedroom apartment but they schedule a time that's off hours to deliver to that area and we have a little gray area here on the side of the building with double doors it acts as a uh staging area as people move furniture in and there's a double-sided elevator there where they can enter that elevator and get to the upper floors um with their movein uh Furniture the building as you can see is organized it's in E shape and the E is basically generally facing south uh there was a question about the courtyards we did it this way to get the most maximum light into those Courtyards and uh we think that uh the courtyards will have a a good amount of light through the days especially in the summer hours the courtyard on the ground on the left side of of the uh building uh is where we have our swimming pool and this directly is uh access from interior of the building through the uh Club room to that area uh there's also uh access through the exterior here through a courtyard that'll be key carded because that area needs to be fenced for safety because it has a swimming pool and we have CL seating around the swimming pool and we have private Terrace is off of the first floor units adjacent to that courtyard the courtyard on the left is a little more passive but it's still very important it has some grilling areas we have some fire pits for early evening Gathering uh we have some seating areas located there um and we have uh walkways and benches located throughout that area so there's really two different feels to those Courtyards uh a couple other things things to mention while we're on the ground flooor if you look in the bottom of the left right hand e toward the rear of the building we have what's called a trash termination room and uh all the upper floors have a trash shoot which comes down into that area where trash is compacted recyclables are collected on each floor in the trash room on each floor they're brought down to that room by building management for collection and pickup we we have a a loading area right behind that area in the rear of the building where trash can be picked up at a scheduled time on trash day so we don't have trash sitting on the curb uh smelling we don't have dumpsters that are overflowing the trash is contained in the trash room and is compacted in that room it's a very modern efficient way to handle trash um the building I think someone and who's asking questions of the engineer ask about fire safety this building is fire safe in the sense that it's a fully sprinkler building it'll be at a uh a high standard of fire safety all the proper um floor to four fire ratings are met all the side fire ratings are met and the the building itself every unit in this building because it's elevator served is what we call handicap adaptable so if someone comes uh asking for accommodation of some form we don't have to change any doorways any make any structural changes to accommodate a handicapped person it has some movable cabinets that we can uh drop to a lower level all the all the backer boards are in the shower areas for grab bars all those things can be accommodated easily and quickly by building management to make it a hand handicap adaptable unit uh the color coding on the units represents uh the uh unit types and we generally have um I'm going to run through the unit counts uh we have 61 market rate one-bedroom units we have eight one-bedroom affordable units we have 99 two-bedroom market rate units we have 24 two-bedroom affordable units and we have eight three-bedroom affordable units for those unfamiliar with the um uck standards which govern affordable housing in New Jersey we have um 20% of our units being affordable that's 40 units and the percentages of one twos and threes are dictated to us so and we meet those standards that have been established for the state um in addition I wanted to give you some of the square footages of um our Courtyards our active Courtyard with the pool is 16,000 Square ft the more passive Courtyard on the right hand side is 12,000 uh Square fet our club room in inside is 2950 Square ft the entrance Lounge is 3250 the fitness center is 1,930 ft and one of the other things while we're on this drawing on the left hand side this is the basement plan which is only a partial basement it's below the left hand wing of the E and the elevator goes down to that area and we have a a room there with Storage renable storage closets for the units Above So res can store seasonal things um suitcases those types of items uh in that lower area we also have a mechanical room down there and a fire sprinkler room and a water meter room um I'm going to move on to the next floor plan on the right hand side the floor plan shows typical unit plans or building plans for floors 2 Flor they're identical on each level it's a double loaded Corridor again with the three elevators two in the front of the building and one on the JFK side we have our required stairwells fire access stairwells and then uh in this gray areas where we have our uh trash shoot um going down to the uh trash termination room the plan on the left represents our roof plan and we we have a slight parit on the roof and the building mechanical will be located on those dotted lines where the uh center of the corridor is we locate the condensing units there uh for two reasons one because it's in the center of the roof and it makes it less invisible basically from pedestrians and cars on the ground so it's in the part of the roof that's Le least visible but it also is in a part of the roof where there's vibration it's over the corridor so we can isolate those uh condensing units above the corridor line and then you see our elevator towers and stair Towers indicated on the roof plan I'm going to move along to uh some of the elevations of the building the building is four stories it's 46. 72 feet in in height and I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the materials now we have met with the Franklin Township historic board and they did have some comments which we haven't Incorporated yet um but I'll I'll mention those at a later time we're going to go back and meet with them uh and show them some revisions so um this is where our application was at the time we made application so there may be some minor changes related to the historic board but the the um um the materials that are indicated here we have a a mix of traditional fiber cement sighing that's the horizontal sighing that you see in this elevation um we also have fiber cement panels which are the larger panels areas so we have a durable facade We have basically a concrete base facade in the base of the building the darker gray portion of the building is Brick that's a dark colored um brick element we have some composite uh panels which uh again they're not wood but they're made to look like wood and those are to uh change materials uh in between the windows in certain areas we have uh large architectural windows in the units with operable uh Sash and we have um generous storefront glass on the lobby level um and that's to bring light in and in particular around the amenity areas in the back of the building uh there's a great deal of glass uh the entry is highlighted by a canopy uh if you look at this elevation there's a about a 4ot overhung canopy I think someone asked a question about how high that is that's almost 12 feet in height uh from the ground to the canopy and that overhangs the front doors uh both the one that uh faces Easton Avenue and the one that faces JFK by about 4 feet and then uh this elevation the right hand portion is the portion that faes JFK where you see the secondary entrance on the lower right our main entrance is on the left here uh with the layby drive uh Drive drop off in the front of the building toward easn Avenue um I'd like to move now very quickly to the uh retail building this plan shows on the bottom drawing the configuration of 13 retail spaces in that existing building we are going to reconfigure that slightly with new demising partitions to create 17 retail spaces and um generally the larger spaces are being made smaller 11 management has determined that that's their target market for this retail so that's what we're working with so we've what we've done is we've we want to give this building a really fresh look from the exterior and we want to tie into the new residential building in terms of materiality so that we have a consistent looking project the drawing uh that I I just put up shows the entire elevation on the top at a smaller scale of that entire strip with the 17 uh retail spaces and then the two elevations on the bottom bring those up to a slightly larger scale uh elevation a is the leftand portion of the building uh where the the larger stores are are located and elevation B is on the right hand side um indic ating uh the smaller uh finer grain retail but again we have the same blending of materials slightly different colors we have some uh stone accents on a few locations um and we have what I think is a very attractive facade with a varied roof line and it's a today kind of Center we want to make this re is what we call a Lifestyle Center so that they can attract a a top level uh group of tenants so is losing battery but our work architecturally is to uh really do a facelift on this building and the new demising of the Interior partitions that's really [Music] um yes the W the sidewalk is wider I think Scott mentioned that in his engineering test testimony um and we've done a little bit of landscaping especially between the residential building and this building um so I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the building the buildings can you go into a little greater detail about the U the the 10,000 square foot Green Space in front of the building yeah I think you're talking about the um the amenity space yeah if you look at the sfe plan that's in front of you the amenity space there you know it it is a it is a little open-ended at this point but we do believe it it's an attractive place for people to gather one of the things that we intend to do there is have outdoor Wi-Fi in that space and also the two Courtyards so that people today as you know it's a carry over from covid but many workplaces are still offering some work at home days and people love in good weather to work outside so we have plenty of opportunities both in the courtyards and out in that open area to utilize that for working on your tablet or whatever you making phone calls that type of thing um the other types of things that could happen in that area there could be at times some programmed events like a small farmers market and uh there there could be small uh Gatherings where you would have a a small music event these aren't meant to be large concerts with big groups of people but they're meant to be small Gatherings places to program that space at um at specific times that would be up to building management to do that but we think it's a a real benefit and to create an address there for this very important residential building one thing I must say is you may not have in France situations where retail centers have uh now have a residential component but I can tell you what's happening all over um I'm working on several I have um just to give you a few locally in East Brunswick um on the old lman Plaza site we're doing new residential there on route 18 uh in New Brunswick and the old Sears site on Route One we're doing new residential in that Center uh if you move up to pamis a Garden State Plaza we're doing new residential there there's a benef there's a symbiotic benefit because retail has struggled over the last several years this helps to strengthen the retail and make it successful to keep a a tenant like Stop and Shop there this gives new people new tenant base but it really strengthens the other smaller retail stores that are dependent on pedestrian traffic as well as people coming to the center so for Franklin Township the benefit is that it strengthens your tax base it keeps those retail stores uh from being vacant and uh prevents provides a walkable type community so that's really what we're after in this particular situation uh are you doing are you part of the repurposing of Woodbridge allall I am not how about uh Bridgewater Mall I'm not uh how about Monmouth Mall where they're putting in 12200 houses we're doing the res is the oldest shopping center and biggest one in the country at one point yeah the mouth msite is 100 acres and we've basically we're tearing down uh basically 50% of the mall space the shopping space and doing it's a th000 units throughout that property it's not just in the mall area but it's around the perimeter as well so at this point it's not just Franklin that's being designated for this kind of a use no and it's it's sort of a change in in um people's habits and shopping and shopping took took a major change with the online retailers and so there's less demand for retail space and more demand for residential and it's symbiotic it's helpful for both okay if that's it we'll save the important questions and uh that's all okay then we're closed August 1st 6:30 and the witness we will begin with questions from the public and the witness for the night as of now will be our traffic expert traffic expert before you for the board Mr chairman a motion to continue this application ZB 24003 11 properties LP to Thursday August 1st 2024 at 6:30 p.m. or soon thereafter as the matter may be heard without further notice thank you Council and I will also note that we had done correspondence at the request of M Woodbury about extending the time for decision uh I think through the end of June we'd be happy to do that now through the end of August I think you're being very okay we'll deal with it I try to be optimistic okay is there a motion to adjourn no we need that motion first a motion to change the meeting in the mo you already change the meeting the motion Mr chairman is to continue this meeting until Thursday August 1st 2024 at 6:30 p.m or as soon thereafter as the matter may be heard without further notice motion is there a second second all favor I iOS motion carried there a motion to adjourn meeting and journ e e for