good evening everybody um it is Wednesday April 17th uh 2024 at 6:04 p.m. and with the corner be present I will call to order the Freetown vo select meeting um this meeting was intended to be a um joint meeting with the finance committee and the board seling um they do not have a quorum so I'm going to kick it over to marget for being recorded yeah so this is recorded and will be available Town's YouTube page okay um it being 604 and not having a quorum present um the finance committee joint with the board of selectman meeting will not um be in session the finance committee will stay as uh public for the bard of selectman meeting um to ask questions as members of the public perfect thank you all right so um tonight we'll be going through um the budget um and so first up we have the building budget so car if you want to um I guess we'll start off now let's set some ground rules here so we can do this in the most efficient way possible um I don't think we need to go line by line does everyone agree with that yes uh so really it's just any particular items that we have questions on or anything that you want to speak to specifically so um I think that this starts at what 241 yeah there was facilities though oh public building 192 192 so let's start there all right and so let's just take a minute and look through it and then if we have any questions we'll let you know thank you for in e it is lot buildings facilities be great if we could roll roll some of these up in the future you know what I mean a lot yeah all right guess I so my only question so on the police station the electricity what am I looking at here where it's like other the 25,000 for the expended so on the uh on the police station as you gentlemen are aware of um we had no no no maintenance programs in place things like bi supression system so over the past year we've we we created those programs where protecting our fire systems our air air systems so we have these maintenance programs in place that's up a lot of those costs that we need to have in the first place so that's going to pay dividends down the road we'll have better functioning building and less repairs as it is right now we spent a lot of money on repairs so we did those repairs we we're assured that the water coming in now was clean that came in a cost we have a program to make sure our fire suppression systems work so everything's in place to be successful we're winning we're winning the game here but it did take the increase that we had to put on there talking about the electricity yeah I think happened when the budget came in originally they had inadvertently put the 25,000 down because that's what was spent year to date that was a six-month marker gotcha and so I I circled it and sent it back and they you know the reality is the electricity for this building runs around $502,000 for the year so that's why you see that Circle change because you know how it is somebody just looked at the number and put it down and it's by accident yeah it's it's expensive building as the board might remember we did go up on the fees of plumbing inspections and so we're not the the most expensive not the least we're in the Middle where we should be so we did increase our our fees we're much more efficient now because of the computers we have for permitting that allows people to get their permits in and out faster than ever before so we're lean but we're right where we are to be providing service to the to the taxpayers excellent the um and I'm thinking it's supposed to be 750 now that I looked at it so it's um building repair and maintenance supplies for the highway Barn it looks like what page Jared oh I'm sorry 46 thank you I'm assuming that that last zero is scribbled out and I just want to make sure it's 750 and not 7500 that that so that is correct okay I just wanted to verify because it you know we're not using much money in there so I can speak about the uh facilities in highway department so we' we added a automatic door open to it we've made some repairs to the the fueling pad which was a concern it was leaking so again we've in we've made those upgrades with taxpayer dollars and you can see it's it's paying off dividends now as we speak it won't be any cheaper next year so what we can do now we we're doing it you know perfect on page 41 and maybe that's what you explained before the service building and grounds for the police right so right so there was an now because we didn't have any maintenance programs in place we do we're right where we should be now we're just we're tripping away at it y I'm good with this any questions you've done a great job Carl this past year keeping everything up up to dat I have a lot of help doing that a lot of help a lot of support from the board my administrator and and my colleagues I can't say enough for them excent all right so do we move down to 241 is that how we want to do this yep 241 which is act building like overall this one's actually going to go down a little bit that I'm that I think we did we did um clean this up a little bit things that hadn't been spent in the past year we we took them out or we decreased the amounts yeah I see that in a couple spots here like vehicle supplies looks like those we tried to really make a lean budget we'll see how that works out for us in terms of you know um how we spend we you know if we start having we're over and we don't have the money to fund it you'll see that in the reserve fund transfers come next March or April but I'm I'm I'm hoping we're still good but a little bit on the conservative side and then the Deans here going up that's is that the par Union or is that uh on on the clerical cler yeah no she she didn't go up I she's at the 49 592 yeah I'm just maybe I'm just looking at this thing correctly been a while but I'm just like the last page of that section no that she did her pay that was just incorrect she transposed the numbers um the the three and the six so um I caught that sent it back to have it corrected perect so these do not just just also another note that um we're in Union negotiations with um four of the five unions so what you're seeing for payroll is exactly what they're being paid today today so there will be I don't foresee us being able to get the unions done prior to the town meeting but if so you you know we will make those adjustments um we are carrying a little bit of money in our budget to um compensate these um when we get the union contracts negotiated and completed but you're seeing every Union employee flat funded perfect that makes sense any questions or concerns there good all right so next would be gas so 242 is pretty straightforward one it's that number right like everybody else it's gone up a little bit you know but nothing crazy he actually flap under I think those are right on track right yeah those are the same as last year yeah I mean I think we had a decent bump 03 to4 right but then expensive these are the inspection okay yeah mind I was thinking this isual gas cost no we did increase the um inspection what we paying for inspection and that's why it went up last year we're right on track so I I think those are good numbers all right any questions concerns no awesome and so this Plumbing should also be straightforward same thing for plumbing inspections yeah same we also went up in those fees right so we did we did all right so then we go to 245 which is electrical flat and same thing those fees you went up so it's all same same now like it looks like the expended so far I guess that's spell it's on track right yeah it is pretty the you know these this payroll these sheets were printed in January so about 6 months into our fiscal year so you you almost double that right so 225 is where it would end up and you never quite know so I think 25,000 is a fair budget for that just I have a question just just random so just thinking about like you know potential new construction with you know rules coming things of that nature for inspection like all these different kinds of Electrical Plumbing is it the same fee if it's a multi-unit so commercial residential is the is the it's the only distinction right so so it could be a single a single house we have the same fee as as like a you know say it's like a six six unit building it might be commercial I mean anything more than four be commercial commercial okay yeah yeah because I just you know kind of Interest something we don't have to really deal with now but we might have to in the future and maybe there's an opportunity there to generate you know or really sure it's more work to something that's you know maybe you want to think about uh modifying that kind of yeah Fe structure it's a great point because it's not we're not in the business of making money but we're not in the business of losing money for that right so I think you know is something to look at where if we start having multi I think the only other thing is that a plan review most towns charge for plan review it takes time to sit and go through the plan so there's a chge for that we could consider that in the future it's a small markup but the big commercial builds out that's peenuts for somebody to pay you know $500 $200 whatever plan exactly yeah so we could consider that that if the board feels that's something you might want to pursue yeah yeah yeah I mean it's I mean I I don't think it needs to be priority 1A but it is something to we keep in mind sure sure any other questions concerns all right there's no no additional Staffing there's no you know any you know it's just it's just increas in cost basically for the the for the maintenance of the buildings building building budget is pretty flat yeah cut with a scapel I think right it was a very sharp knife think that's the best kind of cut with a shop KN fairly I think we we just tried to tighten the margins a little bit where we could where we felt like we could all right thank you sir appreciate I think I think no one has any other questions I think thank you thank you everyone an easy one thank you all right what cheve up fire already got up first just as simple right did Rock Paper Scissors I have just a all right so we should start with DP has that oh okay right that make sense that 196 yeah just to get them I'm trying to just do them in order easy one nothing in there well that was easy2 it is level fund that's what I all right get you that budget I do have it so Communications that's police ire how does that work that's uh the Communication Center is over by Chief Rose myself he prepares the the budget for that all right perfect so we'll go to 220 all right so take that's finally me yeah welcome welcome all right so just give us a minute to review this and then on my not I heard nothing how many any new firefighters in the salary line yes how many one one so I don't know that you have this change you have this change one million y 1 million 199 831 yep that I added to it because of the comp time issue that we have okay um we have some firefighters that are carrying some substantial comp time so we're in the middle of Union negotiations I want to pay out the comp time and stop it from acing to this level so I added the amount to this budget so that we could do that so that we wouldn't have these unfunded you know mandates going forward now I that's the $1.99 yeah that's what the difference between his number and I added that number I just you added that to the the salary line I changed your salary line to 1,1 199,000 and that includes the payout 831 that pay includes the payout at time and a half and the new positions and so we're negotiating that in the union but I'm I'm pretty hopeful that we'll be able to get that resolved and if not that money will be you know added but it really needs to happen um now the new position is that I was reading about the grant is that so what a year ago I came before you and as asked for the two positions last year right and we I I explained that my goal was to have four people there 247 and but but I realized that we couldn't absorb all that at once so I think we all kind of said at the end of this meeting last year okay well the two is good and we're going to pick away at at the rest of it so we've actually applied that the the grant has been submitted I don't know where it's going to stand but we have applied for a grant for more Personnel actually for fourth the uh that Federal uh Staffing Grant now has changed since the last one we got we got one 5 years ago for that we hired two people with at that time the grant covered 7550 and 30% of salaries over a three-year period they've changed the grant now that it covers 100% for all three years including Fringe that's fantastic that's huge so my in-house Grant R I spent many many hours putting it all together and we've submitted it whe whether I don't know how our score will be where we've already gotten it once I I all depends on it's competitive so all depends on how many people are applying for so so we've done that um and I I've talked this over with them so we're my plan is to if I get this person is to try to move and that's contractual too but try to move one of the senior people to a day shift what hour day shift whether that falls and I'll have to coordinate that so that their day off and Neil the deputies stay off don't line up so now that gives me so and then I put the new person on the 24-hour rotation so that gives me two people most of the time other than the bad calls that gives me two people to have on that second ambulance during the week during the day that's when I have the I w't say I have a hard time but I have a harder time getting people to come from home in the middle of the work week or come from work um the other thing that does and I'm sure we're going to get to overtime here eventually but that that takes a senior person that's been here for 15 or 18 years has almost maxed out his vacation time and and that takes him out of that I wouldn't fill that shift when he goes on vacation or we don't use sick days but personal time and whatnot I wouldn't backfill that so that's $400 overtime I've taken out of the equation already and then I would try I've been maintaining the three person minimum that's why my overtime number where is where it is we we said okay that's where our staffing needs to be so I'm working to maintain that I would try to continue to maintain that so if there was someone that's on shift off during the week I'll use the senior guy that's working days to be the third guy during the day shift so so I'm um my overtime number when I March it all out and I'd add it all up and and I have those figures here is like ridiculous um so this I mean I still have an increase built in here because of more time off and whatnot and and pays going up and uh college degrees and whatnot but I think I I can lessen the impact by not filling 800 or 900 hours of that overtime by having the day guy and using the day guy to fill that slot yep um and the other I the the deputy and I I'll say I days are numbered but I mean that we we're we got two and a half years left and that goes by awfully quick and we have very good people over there but there's things that ne9 just start teaching them the the fire prevention and some of the administrative stuff so I had that Advantage when when Carrie was leaving and it's yeah so I don't know if they realize that proactive yeah they're retiring yeah yeah we heard yeah and so it helps the transition 42 years that's a long time I think also the when we talked about the Grant and putting in for four I well that's a lot right because we're going to have to um keep these but one of the things is this grant does not require us to keep the same level Staffing and we thought that if we didn't need all four in terms of um after they retired two would go by attrition because they're going to retire so you may be able to so so we should be able to just transition and not replace those two if we weren't a place to do that financially if you can't afford to absorb all four so that was why why I thought the number was okay at four because we do know we have two retiring and and may I mean we have others that are getting up that are getting close to retirement too Paul right can essentially retire the same week that Neil and I we all started full-time the same week Paul will have his years in and could go at the same time and right now he said that well he's not doesn't have any desire to retire at that point his wife's got to keep working he loves what he does and but so he has intention you never know transitioning so that was just so you know that was our thought process when we had this discussion it was you know we don't have to maintain the the Staffing which the the the policing Grant was different I don't know if it is different I I maybe the chief's going to talk about that but for the fire Grant we don't have to so we can let two retire and just not replace them if financially we're not in that position to do that or we don't have the demand that we think we're going to have okay hopefully we get that Grant we be soed that's great thank you she if there's anything we can do as far as calling somebody or poking a representative or somebody up up top um those emails have gone out that we've applied for it so okay I well if there's an opportunity for us to uh throwing I'm throwing a blank on Jake's last name Claus yes clus um but yeah that those emails have gone out and they they know that we've applied for them so I assume that and it and it's all it's a it's a scoring system it goes through various levels but a little a little we in here and there certainly doesn't hurt so you know getting a transation that should help us somehow right increase our need yeah what my argument was we're going to grow faster than our economic growth so we're going to have to bridge that Gap um while we're waiting for the economic growth to catch up to the actual need for the additional Staffing especially when it comes to things like police and fire right that's going be the first right price increase on the ambulance yep all right Chief in here it says you have four um firefighters that got their degrees I do uh I have one that just finished and the other three are in the early parts of the next fiscal year they would either add I think uh I think there are two bachelors and two Associates degrees that it excellent big congrats to them so that's that's great great they're putting in the work over there have a good bunch of people over there if I remember un negotiations it's it's a great incentive to to go get your degree I mean it's it's a no-brainer y absolutely one other position that we're going to from part time to full time okay yeah they've to a point now where they need a full time yeah I I remember I was talking about that that makes sense so you'll see that jump in the clal line yeah I saw that yeah it doesn't surprise me but it does is the price increase on the ambulance over half million you know like I mean the the fire truck that we have on order we we have a contractual agreement that they're locked into that they don't have any choice but with that truck is 600 and change or 660 or something like that when it all said and done and that same truck today is a million dollars wow how much a million a million you know I and I I talked to Colby and I'm like really he's like it's rid it's crazy it's really crazy and it takes you three years to get it yeah it's like so the smart thing the inflation of these mergency vehicles is ridiculous we should the smart thing to do is just buy them up get ahead of it right it really it really is and you uh for for example it was Chief L and Berkeley I was just talking to they they have a collapsible looks like a little kitty pool to use an accidents to catch diesel fuel leaks mhm a fire one of our fire vendors gets $300 for this fold up kitty pool right you can buy the same thing from Granger Industrial Supply for like 50 bucks yeah it's crazy you know but they it's yeah yeah so some stuff you stu you have we just got the ambulance right and we the price of the ambulance that we just received what was it a year ago it's just a year it was $384,000 the new one is 550,000 and that's today's price we don't know when we actually get to ordering well that's that's there there's contingency money built into that quote okay good that's that these I I told the the vendor when we were doing that I was like we need to make sure that I have good number so there's there's some contingen contingency for the actual ambulance part of it and the the cabin chassis because you know for truck p is so you asked for the ambulance you asked for a truck yes told you that we're tight on that mhm and I asked you if it was a need or a want and you said you need the truck more than you need the ambulance right now so I just want to point that out um and maybe you can talk to that I um I think that for me the numbers it's it's really depending on the fire station addition and I'm waiting for the final numbers on that to know where we're going to be we have free cash as we know so at the special town meeting will be a warrant article to fund the um fire station addition we know we're short by at least a million dollar but that leaves me with no contingency money and we haven't put it out to bid yet so I don't know what the end cost is and I don't want to have to come back to the town for more money my thought process today is to make that warrant article around 1.5 million or 1.6 million and I say that because there's other things in the fire station addition project that we have pulled out of the project what are those it's a new generator that we need the generator there is over 20 years old we know we're going to need a new generator I didn't want to roll it into the fire station Edition project because these things the munici bids just get so big and they they tack on more money and more money we're going to need it anyway I'm going to need it anyway and the other thing is the existing fire station needs a new roof but again I didn't want to add it to that addition project because the price of it will be much higher than if we just bid out just the roof and so we need a general a roof and I pulled all the furniture and and the like they wanted $10,000 for window shades I pulled that stuff out of the municipal bid because I know we can do it cheaper separately so my thought process with the Warren article was to make it at 1.5 or one you know 1.6 see what the bid is have that flexibility to make sure we can cover the addition and the EXT word the oal so that the extra money will be used for those um sub projects that we know we we have to do anyways but I've pulled them out of the overall big project because it will be cheaper and more more um economical for us to do them separately by themselves so just so you have some background on that I'm still pulling them all together that being said I think the the ambulance may have to wait until fall meeting let me let me speak on that a little bit then okay and and I'll explain to you why I think we can wait a year okay we've we've been on we started sometime with Chief syia some time ago with Chief Sylvia on a six-year front line three it used to be four and four then we we got so that we were wearing them out bad this this the backup truck was really bad by the time we getting rid of them we said we got to go to three so we did that the situation so I was trying to keep that same schedule and as it is because of the lag time to get a vehicle if we fund the new ambulance and order it the other one will be seven years old by the time we get rid of it because of the the time right yeah so I I submitted that and then you said can I wait a you so I said let me look and I went back and looked at that and then I scratched my head and I went why is this the way and and I yes we we I can put this off for another year and I'm trying to figure out why the reason why is the truck that is the backup right now was the primary when I had the two guys at Station 2 during the week they were doing all the mutual a to new Beford calls they were doing all the calls on that side of town so they were putting the extra mileage on the truck that we no longer have they were keeping mileage off of the one that's the backup truck now so the backup truck now is in much better shape as the backup than any of the previous backup before that got great so that we we even if it's eight years old now by the time it gets we can wait a year okay we can we we can wait a year on that I guess I mean one of the one of the thought processes is that I wanted to funded because I think we had I thought we might have the free cash if if the fincom and and the Selectmen were inclined I think we could lease it on a a three or four year lease schedule which is what we've done in the past which is why I asked you to wait because we're paying for the the fire truck and we're paying for I think I think we have the ambulance on the lease schedule one of them drops off next year and I thought just keep it on there but when I thought further about it I'm like we have this available cash it doesn't make sense for me to pay interest to a leasing company that they're going to put the money in escro for two years waiting for the ambulance to come in when we can keep it in our coffers and earn the interest because we have done a good job by the treasurer and and and myself of investing our money so that we're we're earning four or 5% on the money that sitting in our carence so so that if it was a necessity we could lease it I prefer not to for financial reasons it doesn't make sense overall and I do believe come fall we'll be looking at it you know we we'll see where we say it's six months right so not a year which is good yeah so that's where I'm at I you have two trucks or three is it two is two you have two okay okay so that do you have a higher and I'm sorry I don't want to drive it on but do you have a you have a higher call volume now though right so the thing that worries me is us making sure we do it sooner than later and I'm not saying this meeting but if we're putting more you're talking about what it used to be and you were that second ambulance was right so so right Chad you're absolutely right that's going to catch up with us yeah we're we're in good shape right now but it's going to catch up with us again so so we're going to need to get back to the the year the sixy Year deal as yeah we have to kind of compare like what the interest will receive in the money to putting it off a year versus what the inflation on the fire truck you know the so let me put together the articles for the next for our meeting next week because um the thought process about the F the fire station addition is sort of something I've just kind of come to grips with as I we had a meeting yesterday or the day Monday Monday Monday um and that helped me kind of know where the timing is also I think this Monday coming up we're having a meeting with the budget we'll have an updated budget for the fire station addition that will dictate how much money I think we need to put in that article and then where we lie with our free cash and our um exess Levy that we have available we come back next week with more information for everybody and if if we have the money we can move forward with the ambulance what is the truck for because last year you got a command vle right yes last last year we purchased command vehicle for me we gave the Tahoe to the deputy that we've never had a deputy scy before the truck that I that I want to replace now is the it's numbered Squad 3 it's the pickup truck that the supervisor rides around in it's gone to uh probably 750 calls already this fiscal year so it I mean it it doesn't it's used MH and it's a 2016 it's going over 100,000 miles on it it's 100,000 hard miles not commuter miles yeah a lot of idle time and it's a 2016 Ford the rust is starting to show on the fender Wells and the cab owners and um it's it's used I mean it's one of our our primary vehicles that that goes in and out of there that's why I I felt like it's that's more of a priority than the ambulance this year really um that's that's that's what that is that's the truck the supervisor right is there anything special on it or is it a basic pickup truck this the the truck I have speced will put will put a utility body like a mechanic style utility body on the back of it um that's the easier way to go than have a firet trk manufacturer build you something custom on the back of it but then we can the CH it can have a chainsa and some some hand right now we have a regular pickup truck with a little aluminum box in the back that everybody that the turnout gears thrown in the back seat which is not a good thing and so the the utility body just seemed like it made more sense for what the what the vehicle is we can throw some tools and equipment in it and we still have a truck bed to put holes in and and whatnot so that was it certainly isn't anything elaborate but and it is also the it's the primary vehicle that we tow all our trailers with with the tech rescue team and EP spill trailer and all all the renty management Trails what not so as far as the ambulance when you um have Surplus how does that work how do you determine when it's time to say goodbye and and what happens with the vehicles that point in the past we've always there always been trade in we've got a trade in credit from the from the deal when we bought them um basically it it gets to the point that the the wear and tear is it starts to be cost prohibited to keep fixing them and and it's not that it's not probably I would't say it's the engine of the drivetrain it's the steering components and the suspension components and things just get loose and radly they're they're in they're just they're abused really sure and just and it's not it's just the nature of the the way they Ed and it the the idle time is I think uh we we we make out very well because we we're pretty we're pretty faithful on our maintenance we keep a close eye on that we we change our oils often um I know some neighboring communities have had engine problems and you know they had the same am they putting like the third engine in it but they're following they were following service intervals as recommended by the manufacturer and they they're going by the light and the dash and they're putting five or 7,000 miles on an oil change but the the thing Idols if it's not parked in the building it's runninges right that's not putting the miles on it so engine still moving right they're blowing them up so that's interesting yeah I would say with with by the time they get into the 125 to 130,000 mile range they start going they're getting pretty sloppy yeah absolutely thank you sure all right are we good here with fire so then we'll go to uh civil defense is that there's really no increase in sh 29 very small amount for yeah under under a thousand increase I would like to um I would like to talk to the board about my um fire replacement equipment which is the it's the last line before the the total I have a almost a almost doubled that line right now and I I just want to explain that because if someone asks you a question I want you to understand what I'm doing right um right now we provide all five feds with a set of turnout kit it's contractual for the fulltime people everybody gets a set of turnout gear price of a set of turnout GE Now is Head to Toes around $44,000 it's a lot of money um everybody has one set of compliant turnout gear that replacement equipment we buy basically three sets a year some of it has to go to the the new people I in the academy they have to have compliant turn out again by compliant it can't be no component can be more than 10 years old mhm once it KS the 10-year Market it's no longer NFP a compliant even if it looks shiny and pretty it's supposed to be taken out of service if something somebody's wearing turnout gear there 12 years old and they get hurt or burnt or or Worse we're going to be on the hook because they wear a non-compliant Turnal game we didn't Supply them with the good stuff so what my what my goal with this money is most of my people have a second set that's not compliant that's out of date that they wear because we're we're very diligent with washing cleaning decontamination now right so well while the stuff's in the cycle going through the wash and the dryer they wear the old set so my goal is to by six sets of turnout gear a year transition everyone so they have two complete sets of turnout gear that's compliant and every fifth year every five years they getting a new set so everybody so everybody will have two sets of gear one's five years older than the other so rather than try to fund this with $150,000 article and then have to come back every five years for for for another whack just to kind of phase this in we just have a Perpetual it's coming up who who who are the who are the six sets we need this year and just keep keep a rotation that way out of curiosity if if anyone were to decide to leave for another fire department will they keep their gear or Gear Station stays with us okay thank you now all that's property of the town and I appreciate you doing it that way I'd rather see the smaller trunks one big well the problem is it's it's one big hit every every five years at that point yeah rather than smoothing it out just a little better rot a little nibble makees sense to me all right so I think there was really no change in um Cil defense right anyone questions on that it's a 5% increase in salary I think it's 5% of it's not even I don't think TR it's 5% of the SL salary okay yeah that's oh you're right I misread that thank you yeah it's only a couple hundred I think yeah yeah you're right yeah s% that I if anyone has any questions I think that's is that it m you good MH all right thank you appreciate it thank you have a good last but not least than I save all my questions for you Chief Rose thank you caros I appreciate that be kind so we're going to 210 right give us a moment Chief as as you see just sure absorb and this is a big one thank you thank you all this from PS it's my 10th one of the day is my computer working it's all right so most of the increases I'm see here are contractual other one Union that does have a contract in place what this what is the increase um on page 58 the it contracts so historically um the police department had a budget of $500 for the it uh budget for the department and uh we had a private contractor the contractor lives in town he's uh built a relationship with the department and uh he was called upon on a need basis um however as we dealing with the the technology here in the station more computers um is wise to actually have a um well designed it budget to do um maintenance work monthly so uh we were able to work out an agreement with the uh the private it consultant and uh he provides a number of hours um a month and there's also a scheduling fee that deals with anything that goes outside of the contract for funds so um $8,100 uh is the settled contract for this it consultant and then the other funding is for anything that goes outside of the the maintenance so if you can imagine um a server goes down and it has to be replaced that extra money is there to be able to support that um updates and maintenance so we just never had right anything that we crossed our fingers and hope that we never right and if it did you had just to pay to fix the problem there was never any monthly maintenance going on and nobody checking to make sure things were being backed up properly I know internally there's some pretty Tech saavi police officers that were doing their best you know to take care of it but it's really not their responsibility and so um yeah we had great length conversations about this you know they needed these monthly um you know somebody needs to be looking at the backups more than anything really to make sure we don't lose data and whatnot and that things are running smoothly without glitches so I think that's what's in place now that wasn't in there in the past okay I have a question so I remember this a couple years ago but there was some ransomware attacks for other local police stations where they were actually taken down and some situations they actually paid the ransom ironically is there do we have any kind of insurance to or like how what do you even do about that I mean I'm not sure if you so I will say this that um the it consultant has been uh working alongside of the police and the communications for probably close to 10 years very uh reliable and um he kept us out of those problem areas yeah however um we want to be you know stay on top of it and and and be able to um manage a threat if it does come into play so I will say this most recently um he got an alert while he's at home he a lot of times will remote access into the station to check on what's going on he got an alert we found out that a 2 tbte hard drive system was almost that capacity so he put us on alert we dove into our server system try to figure out why is all this data being you know accumulated but we found out that all this video processing that we're getting from evidence and different types of Investigations was building up one of our detectives had almost 3/4 of a terabyte of video on his folder alone so he was taking up almost you know the whole service system with with this stuff so it made us go through and do a complete uh you know what can we weed out what can we change what can we store on another type of uh external drive but if it wasn't for him yeah we probably went dealing with a crash when it got full to capacity so having him there is like critical so we don't have these you know potential problems so but going back to the insurance um we are trying to stay in compliance with the insurance recommendations and we have we're actually in a real good place here with the the police and communic I think one of the things that we're struggling with right now it's the only thing is the multiactor authentication y um however I we've got some you know hands working on it right now and it looks like we have a reasonable solution here in the future and that'll be the last piece of the puzzle to deal with the insurance um compliance so if we do have a problem or if we do get hacked we'll be in compliance with their you know recommend that makes sense we do have cyber security insurance to cover Us in in the event plus we have everything's backed up yeah the cloud so we do have those two things but yes in order to be in compliance for the insurance coverage we have to have two Factor authentication which we've done as you you all know from the town hall so now the police are working on that for themselves I'm I spend pretty much half my day as I have from all my different clients and everything just going back through different two- Factor authentications like right right but it's I understand it's super there just don't lose your cell phones I know which I did last week actually we do have a higher level security here right just to get in the building and the network system and all that other stuff your data security yeah yeah so the old station we only had like a dual backup system we had a regular service system and then we had a subpar server attached to that as the backup system and a tape drive that kind of like reminded me of an eight trck tape it would back up on that thing and the old Chief would take that and take it home off site and put it in his safe he would do that like once a week now with the new technology that we have here now we actually had like three levels of backup so we have the cloud right so then we have another server similar to what I just described and then we have another hard drive external uh server that backs up so there's three levels there and that's all in case of we do get hacked we have multiple lay of protection in place so we are in a real good place with that perfect keep on page 57 the police and and this is not a complaint it's more of a question sure police vacation buyback we went from 26,000 down to basically 13,000 we cut it in half I'm I'm just curious is it do we think that we're going to be doing less buyback well that line item was dealt with the retirees Oh I thought it was only the one above so that's why like the sick buyback but then it's also the byy vacation buyback for those ones well along with that uh forgive me um officers have the ability through their contract to be able to buy back one week of their vacation as well and it's really kind of like unpredictable they may want to cash in a week they may not but that's what that Line's also used for well that makes sense but now if you can imagine a lot of our veteran office are gone so we got a lot of new offices in the department they don't have the same number of vacation time as well so we're taking that into fact as well on page 59 the um police other purchase Services it looks like the budget is going from for drop yeah the account is uh 5380 third one down I see it remember we did I'm trying to it must been something specific that way went way up right 03 to4 and then it's kind of now Landing somewhere in the middle yeah let me look at that uh my spreadsheet you had to give some more this I can't remember what it was it's a very specific number too that's a good point 62 cents at the endent okay so with this line item we deal with a number of contractual agreements that include a number of software um services along with other services I'll go down the list here uh we have a shredding service it's called stereo cycle uh Lexus Nexus is a police law enforcement um software program that gives us extra police investigative tools um Automated Business Solution it's a a copy or maintenance for all the cop here so on this list here there's probably like 15 different types of service so all those added up comes out to that amount I'm not really sure what the chief accounted for the prior budget uh I didn't really have any involvement with that budget but this is what I foresee in this account uh with it's with it's tally um I can go down the list as well uh our website maintenance uh a space saer shelving system uh is we have these movable and I evidence room they come out once a year to do the maintenance on that uh oil lube whatever they do there uh Power DMS that's a document management system um all these um services are within this line item here that makes sense yeah it just looks like it went up just for 2024 because the other years pretty level yeah but I mean inine expenditures I just it's like I think it's one was something specific I I yeah it might have been one thing that the chief dealt with during that last and probably didn't fit anywhere neatly so this is kind of the you know catch all bucket right you want to talk about your additional Staffing request yes so um you're at the department been a challenging year um if everybody was healthy and in place and not dealing with unpredictable overtime I would have 11 officers assigned to patrol um as you're aware that we've had two offices out um IOD um we've had a number of officers become new dads um these are all unforeseen unpredictable issues that come around and um which leads to shortages on shifts and um vacancies that should be filled due to safety we're at levels now that when we have an absence um within a shift it brings us down to uh two people on a shift the safer route is to have a patrol supervisor and two officers working on a shift even today um we try not to uh force people to work certain shifts but unfortunately at times we will work as low as two men on a shift but um not all the guys want to take overtime and fill that third shift so and going into this year um you know was encouraged that as a new chief that you know the intention was to try to reduce overtime and then I'm dealt with this year of years right so it's been very challenging and the only way to really do that is to have the bodies to support um when we do have a vacancy uh within a line that we don't have to fill the overtime shift because we have that extra body that's there but when you dealing with predictable overtime you know predictable vacancies versus unpredictable vacancies they all seem to like mix together you know I just mentioned to you I got guys out IOD and you know FMLA is all in play and then these guys that they want you know their vacation time or their personal leave or guys have to do their annual training or specialized training all this stuff merges together and this these vacancies all over the place and I need uh some form of relief to be able to to manage that stuff years past before police reform our department really relied on part-time officers to be able to fill these open vacancies uh from from year to year we had six to eight part-time officers on our dep department so when an officer was on vacation or taking a sick day or whatever that part-time officer came in he filled that shift and it was a significant uh redu uh significant uh financial burden Relief by using these part-time officers because if you can imagine you take the whole department now and the average overtime rate between patrolman all the way to Lieutenant is almost $62 an hour that's the average the Lieutenant's overtime rate when he works a patrol is close to like $80 an hour so filling these shifts back in the day a part-time officer would only be like $25 an hour right so these are the dilemas that we're dealing with we no longer have that police reform there's no more part-time officers so our choices are this either fill the shift the open vacancy with overtime or you run short and we're finding very difficult when we're making an arrest and our two only officers that are working has to sit there in the booking room do a booking process complete a rapport potentially ship them to the house of correction in new beIN and come back probably a three to three and a half hour span when the rest of the town is unprotected one to what what please are available right that yeah that's that's problematic so the only way to really th this is to get the extra bodies that we can be able to absorb it's not going to reduce completely get rid of overtime but it I believe can significantly reduce you over time um to get to that level currently we're uh 20 full-time sworn officers um within the Patrol Division we have uh 11 signed off officers and five sergeants that are assigned for patrol specifically four officers are assigned to administrative uh re uh purposes myself the chief the lieutenant and two detectives currently with our situation because we're so such an app pickle between a sergeant that's out IOD and a patrolman that's out IOD I have uh removed one of our detectives from their assignment in place him in a patrol position he's actually as acting as an acting Sergeant because he's a senior officer and he's able to uh manage the uh the newly acquired officers that are on the midnight shift now so uh however our one detective that's working now is overly consumed I can see him trying to pick up the slack but um it's it's being pushed along to the lieutenant and myself to help manage what he's doing in there so we we really need the bodies originally um when I submitted a budget this being my first budget I requested three officers three patrolmen would put four officers on every shift and I would be able to manage um dealing with overtime um and having the shifts uh properly safely uh uh assigned in in the positions um but but that type of impact on the budget in the town is end up being like almost $270,000 to be able to put these three officers on on the uh additionally to to the budget so uh it suggested to me that let's do this in increments maybe we can get there over a period of time but the good news is just like debit mentioned uh I was just aware of a new grant that came out last week for getting new officers uh through through a Federal grant but it's not like the fire department it's not 100% it's a um what I read was a a 75% 25% um uh program and the program is designed to pull officers in a um Community like problem solving uh position and um SRO included in that or whatever type of program that would best suit the community well one of the biggest problems that we're dealing with is the town boat ramp and and and uh the the beach and we can definitely incorporate that into the grant I'm in the infant stage of dealing with that so the budget that I presented to you folks now is only for one officer but I I'm inspired to maybe put in for the grant for two officers and if the town is in in an agreement to support that then that would get us you know the the the a better way of having those positions and being able to offset uh overtime issues and keeping this the line items in place um with the Personnel so I foresee if it's you know if it happens if we had an injured officer the priority might not be in the school that day it might be taken out of that position for a period of time until the the officer comes back so I'm able to like absorb that issue without um uh costing you know being detrimental to the department in a town that makes sense so just go into the grant the grant is a little different than the the fire Grant it's a 7525 for three years right correct can you explain that to me so 75% the first year 25% the second year no it's 75% per year we pay okay I got you that makesense years for three years and then but there can be no attrition at least we're not sure that we're pretty sure you can't have attrition in other words you can't reduce your after the three-year period you can't reduce your Force you pay it back or else you'll pay it back so it's a little different with the fire where I said go ahead and apply for four because we know we can absorb two through attrition and and you know that's where we're at so we have discussed two and possibly three applying for three um depending on the timing of we got it because then we we would use this um the you know you've added to the budget for salaries you could use that to cover you 25% on three positions which is ultimately what you wanted when you came into me with the budget um to get your Staffing where you felt like you could at least reduce the most impact in overtime although there's always that unforeseen unpredictable we did have a murder in town this year that created a lot of overtime and we never know right that there's no way for any body to know but right um so that's what I know that we're working on so that we can get the Staffing levels where they need to be for the least impact of the town I highly doubt though will be in a situation where we think we need less police officers in three years now you know I mean and I think that gives us time we've got some big things coming with the VP budget coming to full fruition and I think the school budget most likely will be um coming up because it gives us some time to get us prepared for the impact um but of course you know this these discussions were between myself Margaret and the chief he did fight really hard to get more positions so I mean I I don't think it's not doable financially this year I'm more worried about next year and the following year but I I I put that out there because if if um the board feels differently than I felt you know because I I do feel there's a need I just I'm balancing the needs of the entire town no I get it it's it's tough yeah but I think we see sorry um you mentioned that that the um Grant is for like problem solvers like the the boat ramp or the beach or the SRO what happens if and then you said that if somebody was out you could take if an officer was out maybe the SRO could cover Patrol would that be okay or does it have to be I think that as long as it's short term it shouldn't be an issue okay but um we have to stay within the stipulation of the grant right and um you know I do have my concerns about the grant because there are some you know it's a three-year commitment and um and I specifically read a a paragraph dealing with you can't use it for attrition so if you're you get the three people and you know somebody's going to retire regarding the grant you have to fill that a person that's retiring all right so but that doesn't mean like after the three years you know what I mean you decide that you know maybe and again I'm not talking my way out of having the extra bodies because I need the bodies believe me um but you know I won because back in I think it was 2008 we got a grant for an SRO here in our elementary school and um we had the officer there for a year and a half and at the time the town had financial difficulties and they decided to lay off a number of officers which put us in violation of the grant so what ended up happening was we didn't have to pay back the grant but the remainder of the funding was no longer available and I don't think it affected us on getting any other grants shortly after that but he we are worked so hard to get that Grant and that we dealt with a financial difficulty and I'm not looking to make a prediction but we do have BP around the corner right so listen I I just warn that like we can't like completely put all our eggs in the same basket of this grant I'll do my due diligence and you know report thoroughly to the Town Administrator but uh I could definitely use the bodies now you do have one person out the academy in about a month how will that be implemented once so um Mr Kobe yeah graduating May 10th and um once an officer comes out of the academy he's required to do a minimum of a 12-week field training officer program and basically they go through all the ins and outs of the department policy procedures make sure that the uh the training officer is uh making sure Kobe's working sufficiently and he understands what his requirements are and and the policies procedures so once he comes out he'll probably because of his seniority go to a midnight shift it's not like the favorable shift but that's where it will go um but it would now that I'm dealing with these officers IOD it's definitely going to like reduce the overtime issues um and he was going to be placed in the position that suits us you know best to make sure we have the three officers um one of the officers that is injured his shift was the midnight shift so right that's a vacancy right there yeah so Kobe better enjoy his 12 weeks and then he can go to midnights I was just making sure it wasn't like a standard boot camp when you go to the military you get like a 10day a 10day period off or 20-day period so it's like he graduates and boom he's on shift new guy gets no time offs get app I know you had a number of officers retire last year are you expecting any attrition well the good news is I'm not expecting anybody to retire or leave for at least another three years okay I had an officer come up to me recently who is coming up on his three-year window that um for contractual uh reasons if they put in their notice for three years they get an additional stiping for the first year uh zero in the second year and then another stien on the on the third year but so if he puts in that notice then he'll be the next person to retire so that's I think he's going to put in July so three years from July okay that's good and let's keep people healthy not injured so one of the things we talked about too just so that everybody has a heads up with new staff we would not be looking for new Cruisers we'd be okay using what we have I think currently for this year we're going to be fine um um but as we history is our teacher here right because what we do is we evaluate the amount of miles that are on our cars on a regular basis and we know that five years and 100,000 miles is pretty close to where we got to get rid of these cars that are in Patrol and I want to say in Patrol versus some of the sedan cars that we have that are unmarked the cars that are on patrol are worked so much harder than like my car or the detective's car they're in high-speed Pursuits they're going from 0 to 60 stopping speeding cars all this this is all wear and tear on on the vehicle and then on top of that we were just talking about idling time how often do you drive by an officer parked in the same location he's probably sat there for a half hour to 45 minutes watching traffic and he hasn't gone anywhere but that's all wear and tear on the vehicle um the newer Vehicles now I just found out they don't clock the the engine hours before the older cars we used to be able to see the engine hours and come up with a formula on how that what the actual you know wear and tear and the amount of time of the vehicle is being used the newer cars don't have that I don't know why or you have to pay extra for it maybe that's what it is you know what I mean so forgive me right we get the base models but I think as we go forward um especially this year um I think we're just going to have to watch watch and stick within our Cruiser lease program that we got right now and if I'm seeing that the the if I'm foreseeing a red flag coming down the road another year or two I'm going to be the first one to say hey we got to make an adjustment here where um maybe because I think our current Fleet um we do like two two and three every like in a three-year window so maybe it run runs up two three three but I'm going to have to be able to look at the mileage and watch how these extra bodies are affec in a car Fleet okay and but we did talk about you might need extra equipment and then I said we would fund that if we had to fund it at to fall town meeting or whatever once we know we're headed that it might be a little bit I'm not I'm not overly concerned I don't think it's going to be a big dollar figure but it might be something you can't absorb through the budget right um we'll see I mean it we might be able to but if you can imagine with a new officer they get their clothing allowance it's like ,650 whatever the amount is that's there they have to get a new vest if they are a lateral transfer they potentially could bring their vest with them it was kind of an alarmed when I was listening to the fire chief when we get issued our vest and we're wearing that day in and day out and it's getting all sweaty and all sorts of stuff I'll tell you what I don't want it back you got it right so um agree but a vest is like $900 it it it's an invest maybe if you had it for like three months and it wasn't that bad maybe I'd get it back but normally you know it's on the body you know you don't want that so there's that type of fee um the department is required to keep up with all the leather gear for all the Personnel so between the belts and the holsters and all that other stuff you know you talk in there probably like another $3 $400 with all the equipment that's on on there and stuff so these are all I say small little things but they build up you know when you don't but you know budget for and stuff so just give me everybody you know so you know what I know in case this comes up so I actually I just got text I have to go my baby's fever's going up so I got yeah the family so the last thing we have is just communication budget looks like it's went up total 1,300 bucks right just nail that out real quick and then I'll yeah and then townwide fuel still so weird to my car at your house fine I guess I have a mother lost carine what actually if I just take off now do you want closing the meeting is that okay okay all right sorry one comes first luck with the little one okay of course wife on my wife's on work trip in Toronto so oh right is she blaming you you yet I'm sure let yeah if you want I can just leave it and drive it with the keys in it in case you need it in the night oh I'll T all right thank you everybody I'm pass this over to you you know in case everyone get real Rowdy no all right I was going to use the taser but hey Cav works too are we doing Communications yeah commun I don't know did anybody you have any other questions on police um before we go to Communications I was okay yeah than you that was helpful it's tough you know you've been dealt some serious cars this year regarding personnel and everything else um you know we support you and everything we can do and um but we still hold true to what we said previously is you know try to get that budget as far as as far as overtime as down as possible I know at this point it's herc in effort to do that so um but keep doing what you're doing well I will say this and I had talked to the Town Administrator about this about you know dealing with overtime and you know what type of shifts that were filled being filled and whatnot um our our tracking system has been lacking with the shifts that we've been filling yeah we can see it on the log and but what we not seeing is why what type of shift are we feeling when when is it being filled is it getting filled so recently I created a new spreadsheet to be able to track that monthly as we go forward in July I have the scheduling office of Lieutenant using this sheet so I can have a report specifically having a thorough understanding why and what shifts are being filled so I can be able to track it and come back and say hey when I need this extra body this is how it's going to help because I'm dealing with predictable overtime vacation personal day whatnot and um I could have potentially afforded that if I had the you know the full-time Personnel but being able to track that and have an understanding why we're filling these shifts would help us budget for the future so and the main thing is I got the lieutenant on board with this so that's that's the key you're being proactive yeah well the question is why why why is this happening and when when you're dealing with all these different aspects of it the two officers being I can't tell you how detrimental that is and then the third officer is in the academy right right they go to the academy takes six months they come out of the academy they got to be in a 12we program you you already got the person tied up for three quarters of a year and he hasn't been solo yet right you know what I mean so it's it's an investment it's definitely an investment so these are the challenges that we deal with well at least once that's done after a year you'll be able to try to project what the quantifiably if I get another person I can save this amount of overtime I mean basically you'd be able to say we'll spend $100,000 in salary but I'll save 30 or $40,000 in overtime so doesn't make sense to spend an extra 60 to have that extra uh patrolman or officer and it will help quantify the need and it helps when we're making decisions to see that I love to come back to you and say hey we're going to reduce the overtime by 25% or 50% you know I mean that would be wonderful right sold so um I don't know if all the guys would agree to that but you know it's but that's my goal and um believe it or not there's some officers out there that don't want to work overtime they just want to work their 40 hours and they want to go back to their family right and there's something to say about that right um but I just remember my early years I took every shift I could because I'm trying to like pay bills and you know and whatnot and support my family so but that's not for everybody you everybody's different and generations are different right we we talk about managing managing different like J X versus J it's different now it's different people people have a different Outlook and that's what it is and that's okay so yeah it's going to change in every Department the guys have been good they've been very help ful uh very supportive and still here UND you guys laughing smiling I'm not sure any I don't think we had any questions about this budget because this is all I mean we don't the the wages are going to change right they haven't changed we're negotiating the union so there's really nothing in I don't see any change really until then no so the only other one we have is uh townwide fuel that's 950 950 it's not electrical yet Cofe well the good news is I spoke to uh Melanie today to go over the fuel budget and we're looking good to where we're going to be within budget this year so the the cost of fuel has not changed so I think we're going to not going to have to come back and say hey we need more to deal with it um and as we go forward in the future it's kind of like a roll of the dice we don't know you know fuel's going to go up or down but um staying with the same budget is probably okay for now um but um I'm I'm not seeing anything alarming so I'll take that as good news yeah yeah know was it last year the year before we having all these crazy issues with fuel and we were sitting in here and was like well fuel could get up to $10 $10 right this discussion right so it's like so we're not okay with our conversations we having tonight I just wish I could say that about vehicles and I was listening to the fire chief too that you know in in the course of one year because we're buying Vehicles every year well for one year to another it was like over a $10,000 difference in one year it's like you I mean you're at the whim and these are the state bids I mean this yeah so I'm assuming no one has any questions on fuel else that's it right so well thank you for being kind Chief thank you you're very nice very uh Pleasant being well prepared yeah well thank you Town Administrator and Margaret over there to make me prepared they uh Grill only took what three meetings that's okay I told you if you got once you got through me you'd be fine listen I'm a fighter I'm trying to trying to get there just can't get all there at once you did good for your I mean you did good for the first time there's a lot to your budget so I don't want you to think you did and you did great well that's a big budget I have good support you know this being my first year uh Melanie of FY our uh secretary administr assistant is just amazing and she's been educating me very well I getting better at it I'm I'm not I believe I'll be up to her standard and her level pretty soon hey I can do payroll now you know I feel confident in that when she's on vacation I can handle it you know but um the people that are surrounded around you make your job easier so I can focus on other things and being able to delegate uh really helps me deal with whether it's policy writing or deal with training or just dealing with the staff and making sure they're okay and you know hear what's going on with that keeping everybody happy we want to keep people here that you know you want to keep them committed you know it it it takes takes some effort and if I'm stuck in there doing budgets and bills all day long I feel like I'm like missing out on some of that stuff but I got good help in there so but thank you everything else good with everyone all right all right so with that I will entertain a motion to adjourn motion made I will second it all in favor I bye