good afternoon everyone it is Monday June 3D at 2 o'clock and I'm going to call the bo of the pre-time B SP meeting the meeting is being recorded will be available on YouTube um so is there any other boards or anything that need to open anything up there's going to be F any want any okay so um I'm actually gonna I'm just going to read what it is so it's a one item discussion on meeting warrant articles a Article 19 propos MBTA zoning question and answers and then any other articles that need discussed so I don't know if you want to just kind in formal give the kick off to this yeah the the um the reason for having the meeting is just to have everybody have the same information there's a lot of misinformation at floen at least on Facebook and in social media so I thought it would make a good idea for us to Rally up get all of the same information if anybody any department heads have questions about the zoning or um any issues that may arise that we can all share the same information and then also just so that all department heads are prepared to answer questions related to their department so that it doesn't all fall on one person to answer the questions we we know from social media that it looks like there may be quite a few people there lot of questions and so I wanted our department heads to be as prepared as possible to answer those questions so that's really the the whole Crux of this and then if any department heads had questions on any of the other warrant articles that they could raise them here so they can be as prepared as possible going into tonight's meeting um I don't know Victor if you want to kick off or you want me to I mean um so I know we're mainly here for Article 19 amending the plan mixed use um development overlay District um so I guess like Deb said we just want to make sure that you know if a question is directed at some of the other departments that you guys are prepared to answer them for example some of the questions I've seen come up um are either about you know school age children entering the system and about Emergency Services the big one and then you know um water sewer infrastructure that I feel that might be better answered by other departments rather than the planning board yeah so I guess that's that that so I guess one of the questions strategically that I wanted to know um Victoria is are you gonna make a statement do you think when this article comes up uh yeah so I believe either myself or Dave is gonna hopefully go up before there's a vote and sort of make a statement or yeah because I think it's a misconception that all of a sudden the planning board just decided they're going to do this right density zoning and it's and it I think a statement needs to be made that the planning board is just trying to comply with the governor's orders and I think it's not just that I think everyone right because i' I've said this to many people is my fear is is that you're going to get some upset people they don't know who to point it at so they're going to point it at anyone in this room right so I think we need to make sure that we're very clear that this was a state mandate that came to us and we're trying to do what we can with what was put in front of us right that this isn't a a Victoria or a planning board or select men the Chiefs whoever it it was literally handed to us from the state so I just think we need to make that clear for all of you and I think that needs to be right out of the gate so that's what I'm saying I don't I I don't know if you're planning on speaking or Dave is planning on speaking Yeah it's either me or Dave but yeah I sort of have some some notes here to sort of preliminary you know go over everything the history of you know what is the MBTA communities act what does this mean for Freetown and how we um you know plan to comply well I would like said first thing is this was something mandated by the state and we are just trying to comply I think the other C Clarity that needs to be made is although it we're in this predicament because we have an MBTA station it has nothing to do with the train so it's a Governor's act that has you know said because you have an MBTA station you have to have this zoning but the train and the MBTA didn't dictate this they didn't say we want you know so that's always um a misconception too that one has something to do with the other while they do they really don't the MBTA didn't demand that we got this zoning this the governor did and Governor Baker did so I think that's a Clarity that I would come out of the gate with uh those two clarities and make sure that people understand because again they don't understand they just don't have enough background information so that's how I would begin the discussion about this um and then again chap Rose you will get a question about how this is going to impact our safety or you know our police and fire what are you going to do when we have all these criminals living because we're going to have all these additional housing was that I you of course um the increase with the population the community is always going to be a concern for the safety of the community it's hard to predict you know what that impact is going to be until it's here um we can do our best to prepare for it but reality is um we won't know until we know what type of housing us is going into that location and and that's I mean I think that's the reality we don't know the answers to a lot of these questions it's just but I just want you to be prepared to say this that um because like I said Victoria and the planning department this should not all be although it's pointed at them is it doesn't I want to make sure that every other department same thing Harry they're going to ask the same thing of you possibly hey how's this going to affect the fire department you know do you have enough Staffing you know um yeah I think really a lot of my homework I already have done because of you know I I did it a year and a half ago right so you know equipment wise and and my my homework is pretty much that so I should be find as CL and I think Staffing levels will come upright current and future we don't and we've already that you know that's been discussed amongst right myself and Bo the Town Administrator numerous times been been the last couple of years I think we're okay I have a good hand on that so one of the things that came up as I was reading the town hall that was asking me is it and and I is Mike m q on is anybody on Zoom people on Zoom I don't know who that phone number is do you recognize that I think that's Kevin but I'm not sure Nick boso is on and then there's a couple other people so one of the questions I think it's Kevin saying that was him um about taking the the this out of order so I don't know anything about that that's not my call you know what I mean um so just think about that I don't know what that means for the meaning itself I don't know if it's like a way to get that whole discussion over with and move forward I I kind of like to get the money on his first but I don't know the what the thought process is and I feel like it's double-edged sword from being honest because if we hurry up and move that and people might think like why are they trying to push this through so we don't you know so everyone leaves and other stuff makes it through you're going to have speculation from both sides so I mean if listen someone in the crowd comes in and says they have to do they make the motion do it we have to do it but I kind of like you we have the flow set up and as as we have it yeah my concern with that is I completely agree with that but this one article possibly article two 20 as well has potential of lasting hours right there's no time frame to say hey we're going to in discussions at this point we kind of have to feel all most of the questions if they're the same then of course I will reduce the amount of questions but we put it up front is the rest of the meeting until someone calls it the vote I think it's I think that's what you're going to have especially if you start hearing redundance of questions you're going to have someone who's going to get who's going to get frustrated and they're just going to call it and then procedurally that's what's going to end up happening right I think you're right yeah but but it's a Val point I mean I don't know I guess we just have there's really not much we can do about controlling yet I think um CH from the point of view of conservation my my only thought process about that is if anybody I mean just because the zoning is in place it doesn't negate environmental impact so you might if that question comes up maybe you could help direct that one like you still have to comply with you know the wetlands protection act and whatnot so that might be a help for you to for you to answer something like that so that again we all and we never know right you get all this Onslaught on Facebook and social media and maybe it won't be like that at the town meeting you just don't know my goal was to have everybody have same information and just I just don't want one person to be up there taking a barrage of of being peppered with questions without the support we're a team we got to work as a team everybody has a piece of this information um dictated by the state it's unfortunate this is the way it's coming down but this is the reality and this is what we said I did reach out to the Town Administrator for Milton he he's got a bunch of information information he did actually send me over their lawsuit which is crazy I just want to know from a law point of view it's I don't know how that's going to work out for it but um and they did pull back one of big grants which is our our the consequence here is the grants uh being taken and we don't know the extent of that because they have said they're going to pull back particular ones but they at their discretion they may go further and I don't know what that means do that mean I think CH R you told me you get like a 911 Grant every year that's sort of like an every year thing they can pull those back I don't know they're not saying that that's not listed as one of them but is that how far they go with this we have no idea so the couple of Grants I I I printed out I gave it to you did you to look at it I looked at it yeah it was just the ones from planning really does it really look um I mean we have a lot of Grants all our federal grants I'm assuming will be protected not proud of this but our two big state grants is uh the sewer line engineer from Mass works for $775,000 of which we've spent about $400,000 so they're talking about cloring that back meaning we would have to pay that back do you have anything different than that um a little bit so I did have a a meeting with um someone from eohc um which is the department who's kind of overseeing the compliance with the mpta communities act um and we sort of went over the Freetown proposed um PDD bylaw and I did ask that question and there um she said there has been no discussion of sending grants that have already been awarded unless the award was contingent on section three of compliance however eohc does not administer these Grant programs so she cannot give a definitive answer so it' be up to the individual Grant you know back their Seawall Grant yeah and I did ask about that she said that one that Grant was specifically contingent on 3A compliance they put that in their award letter she said but we would get that as part of the grant right so when the state Awards the grant they would say here are your restrictions here are your the pros and cons of each Grant you must comply with all these parameters right and those two grants that we're talking highlighted in yellow were that was that language in there I don't know I'll go back and look at the office I don't believe so because these grants have they're not uh we've had these for a couple of years I got through right when I got here um so they're 2022 grants so I don't even think that was an an act when did the governor yeah I think I believe it was an act but it just wasn't uh I I don't think it was part of the grant Awards but I mean I'll take that's not a definitive answer that she gave because she doesn't speak for all those other you know programs so it's really sort of a not it's not being discussed but it doesn't mean it would be wouldn't happen yeah that's at least the answer I got right right that's that's the strange part about it like the second one on those grants is like about 75,000 we already spent 52,000 you're almost done from like it could be done by a time without of compliance if it was if it was voted now right that's to the people but we have until what December 2024 right being so we have multiple the app needed right to make sure we really want to go with a or b right so if we're done with that of 75,000 remaining 20,000 how they going really come back to us and say Hey you owe 75 grand because now you're are compliance they are they did say they would call them back yeah I don't I I find that I I find that hard to conceptualize but we don't know um I I would I will email anybody who wants to read the lawsuit from the attorney general to milon because it is crazy um I'll just read you a little bit of it and what they want for relief which just totally in my personal opinion goes in the face of democracy but the court is asking for their relief prayer for Relief the Attorney General respectfully requests that this the court Reserve decision on the merits of this complaint report the case to the Supreme Judicial Court for carall for adjudication of the ises declare that 3A affirmatively affirmatively obligates the town to have a zoning by law that provides for at least one District of reasonable size in which multif family housing is permitted as a right and that satisfies the other criteria set forth in 3A declare the town has failed to meet it obligations under the 3A declare that the Attorney General is entitled to injunctive remedies to secure the town's compliance with 3A and guidelines into an injunction requiring the town to create the Zony District that comply with 3A and the guidelines within three months after entry of this injunction and if and to the extent that the town does not comply with said injunction enter a further injunction prohibiting the town and Mr ATU I don't know who that is from enforcing any aspect of the town's zoning bylaw rules or regulations to the extent that such enforcement is inconsistent with the town's obligations under section 3aa and the guidelines and Order such other relief as support May deem just so they're basically saying if you don't vote it in we're just going to get an injected belief and you're going to have to buy it and do do what we want you to do anyway end of that at the end of that it states also that they it also appoint a special Master to oversee the whole planning board and everything else so they even go further in that prayer proves on ail I'm willing to apply with the injunction sought this main food but is not limited to appointing special Master to propose a zoning bylaw that complies with 3A and the guidelines are imposition fines on the town I never seen we got to remember that a town is a animal of the state correct so when the state tells you you got to do something you got to do something right and know but I'll politely disagree with that we have whole move for a reason Charlie there's a reason why we we are and and about let's not hit ourselves we don't really have home the the Commonwealth of Massachusetts tomorrow could do away with every town every municipality in the state okay but they haven't right so so there's a process by which right and I don't want to get into this conversation about right wrong we different right but but but at the end of the day that lawsuit doesn't scam because lawsuits throw a bunch of crap on the wall and and I'd like to think even though we live in this Commonwealth here and the politics are what they are that no judge would allow a single non-elected appointed Master to come in and user the authority of the elected board members not to mention the town meeting okay there are going to be lawsuits upon lawsuits upon lawsuits in this right if it were up to me I suggest wait till the end of June when everyone else has had their Town meetings and we'll have a lot more towns that we could enjoy with and if the Attorney General wants to go down this road and and and Sue 10 15 20 other communities because they're not they're trying to be responsible we talk about how much we're going to lose how much of the 100 kids going into our school system a year cost right and I know that's not the reason we're here but these might be some of the questions that come up and I would suggest that that's $250,000 a year that's a quarter million dollars okay so what does that cost to put those students to so when we're when we're josing what we might lose we also we have to Jose that you know I was just trying to quantify based on that has been a question right that that hey um okay so we risk losing our grants what does that mean I just Quantified it so that we have an answer to that question you yeah you may think it's insignificant may think it's very significant it doesn't matter what you think it's just it's just information it's just factual information this is what it is right now well to be fair though that is not the Jeopardy that is what we're being threatened with if they're successful in the lawsuit that is the potential Jeopardy for this town that is what they're threatening us with that's what they're going to ask the courts to give them and I don't know you're a lawyer there smarter people in the room than me a lot of times you go in you ask for a thousand things I mean when I read that I I just thought that's so much more than what this is about right like that's just like this is what this is what I'm saying right it's a very chilling effect on on on home rule freedom of speech uh um um you know there was a little disagreement up in the up in the Boston Harbor not all that many years ago about you know people you know doing things and not having representation relative to their own uh Destiny so to speak and and we took matters into our hand in this little corner of the country right and and and I'm not suggesting that this is a a violent reaction to this what I am suggesting is the idea the principle that we have a a singular elected official who is choosing herself to make these laws to go after the constituents in this Commonwealth and then the threat is they're going to hold our own tax dollars back from us those Grant monies are our monies whether they're from federal or state taxes and so that's so I think you're argument Kevin I think my purpose here was not to have the arguments it was more to have everybody prepared to respond to these types of right uh arguments that are going to come up in this discussion and be prepared as prepared as we can be have the same inform no like I said at least there's a quantifiable number here you you again yes there is more um to this as we've read on social media as Chief Rose and and chief Ashley will tell us that we don't really know right we don't know how many housing units are going to be built and we don't know the impact but the reality is 750 units could be built and if they are it's going to be what it's going to be I know I agree with you the home rule is there for a reason right whether whether they want to change that that they can say whatever they want at this point they're like Kevin was saying they're throwing stuff against the wall see what sticks right and the MBTA communities Act was purposely created right so that whole rule could change to allow to make sure that also with an enforcement compliance as well right which is pulling back to funds and grants things like that so right is it will it we don't know that's that's that's part of the conversation it's not all it but it needs to be discussed I I think she's going to go as far as she needs to compliance do do we have our state representatives involved in this at all are there there our voices for the state capital represented well we have somebody from call well looking at the voting it was unanimous in the Senate and it was I believe 394 to1 or 394 to4 and the legislation in favor in favor of the NBA communities act so that's those are the facts that's what's on historical record that's this vot this was overwhelmingly voted yes by the folks you speak of the people representing the people so as a as a small town we have very little say what happens up on the hill right but it this will impact our community for better or worse so our this the reason for this meeting to dev's point Kevin everybody's point is to make sure we're all we're all talking to to the facts to the points that that people going to be asking on social media they're talking about everything from the home rule to um you know sewer and water to Fire and Police right all concerns of ours right and this is meetings to make sure where all our ducks are interrupt right I even saw some things on like the Indian burial grounds um Native American Bar grounds sh take it back Native American Bar grounds that will that impact anything with with this uh development right there's a when I understand someone's concerned about Indian burials there's a there tried nearby or is there is I going to impact that in any way Grant is another one that comes up all the time how and as as Deb said each Community is being treated differently we only the only thing we know is what Milton's going through and that's still up in the air as far as what the end results going to be I I also think that and I don't want to jinx us but I feel like milin was the poster child like because they were the first one that said no so I feel like they're striking at them to try and prove their point yet there's several other communities that that are joining that mid oh no together right right and again the number's going to grow when you start getting at 20 or 30 the the logistics of the Attorney General having 20 simultaneous lawsuits she will be out of office before you know before the legal because this is this is something that is going to set huge president if if the Supreme if the judicial courts here decide that that contrary to local rule that the state can just say we're going to do something that can be demonstrated will have uh a negative effect on communities uh and those those effects be damned I mean in reality the grant question is just it's a quantifiable number but this loss doesn't talk about gr this talks about forcing it forcing it is what ex and again and that's totally goes on the face of democracy it does and I would suggest that even if we fought it like middle bro says okay there's enough we're going to put a little bit of money into this we're going to fight but then what is the settlement of of the court case all right we'll bring it back to town meeting and then it fails again like like how how do we do it like if if this is one of the then what is next and and and is this a hill that that we're willing to I don't want to use the term D but but plant on why hey enough because 20 years ago as much as they want to say it's not the MBTA that's doing this I sat there when I had members of the MBTA come before the plan board and want to do this to this Transit oriented Design This Is Not A New Concept this is something that's been kicked around for the last 15 to 20 years and you know what we said sure we want to be out ahead of it so we already have zoning to accommodate some of these goals it's just not with the amount that they're talking about because we had a reasonableness to how we can grow um when it comes up to the grant question I think myself or Margaret will answer that okay comfortable with that far this lawsuit I don't even know what to do with that so the the the article will be read right and I I I tried to I tried to speak earlier but every time I tried to unmute myself I kept getting muted so I don't know what was going Oh I thought it was just feedback I'm sorry I you I thought it was just like noise it sound like feedback yeah I'm sorry I didn't hear like that's right that's why I came here fine sorry fine so the article gets read and a typical form somebody in the back of it yells Mo doop as red right I don't know who that is but um what happens if certain somebody says motion to defeat it gets a second that that's not a that's not a a motion you been make by the Rob groups oh what motion do I have to make to defeat him you have to vote I'm sorry what just so you just so you know I'm I'm sure you might want say a motion to defeat somebody could say that but that's not a that's not a motion that make you can only make a motion to uh put the article or the item before discussion or remove it you could you could make a motion to table and make a motion to commit back the committee you can make a motion to table but you can't make a motion to pass or to defeat you can make a motion to call the vote and then it be defeated no no no so again all right I'm assuming again somebody a lot smarter than me right just talking something apparently that I'll check myself but and I don't know me answer I'm not saying to do so so motion to adopt a few to meetings I'm not saying wrong I'm just saying I don't know I I don't want to say yes absolutely so motion to adopt is red somebody seconds it any discussion on the vote and then this is when is going to be open for questions and statements my my my concern is right and I heard you say that somebody from either the planning board or well first off have to make a recommendation cor and that's the sticky way you guys right uh recommending for this when everyone in the room is going to be W say everybody it's going to be a a healthy contingent of people that are concerned about the OT both sides of both sides of the yes or no right right right right and then after that then call the vote and then some then people would make uh but if there's a motion and a second if there's any further discussion then people going to get up and start talking and then we can make a motion to call the vote at that point in time um I'm just interested uh to see if if the vote were to get called right away without discussion what would have that we get defeated or not well I mean I think from all of what we've seen on social media it's not looking positive the worst thing I think would be if it gets we wait a long time for the vote and the end gets table people waiting through the whole time to get table I don't think I think we're trying to avoid that right or the board yeah no we want to have a healthy discussion we want to hear what people have to say and then have them vote on what if they this is what they want for their town for next thousand years right it it once it's here it's here I I think they might I mean I don't know what the planning board is inclined to do but I mean and it's not the planning board it's the the people but it might make sense to refer it back to the planning board and there's no money with this it's an unfunded mandate they're not say I'm going to give you this there's nothing coming with that right question I do think the ones that do adopt it are going to get the grant monies right that's the the tool right they'll get they'll get grants but those are grants that that we right now are currently eligible right right so it's not like they're going to get a prize if you will if you adopt this you get even more it's just they're gonna but they're G to take that into consideration when they're determining who gets grants moving forward this is unprecedented right with the lawsuit side of things so the the the the green communities and all that if you adopted them and we knew that when we didn't adopt it because the stretch code was honorous that we would be eligible for certain things right if we didn't have a master plan you're not eligible for these things and okay and we understood that but this takes it a step further this says we're going to be doubly punitive this is a little bit no she's crazy the unmitigated Gall okay I'm sorry the unmitigated Gall of these people that sit up there in Boston all right and this is what they want to do to to their communities right we're in a good Financial place now we're building buildings we're doing it if we get 100 units in here we're building a new addition on this school right we're we're adding like I said a quarter million dollars a year minimum to the school budget nuts I'm sorry what's 100 time 25,000 that's 2.5 million is yeah 502,000 average per student 2.5 million a year so again when we just depose oh they're going to withhold $75,000 from us are we're going to have to pay it back or or we get a 100 students it's going to cost us that I he your arguments I'm not really here I don't really want to make the argument unless I do have question yeah and I'm not I'm not quite clear this is an overlay correct they refer to as an overlay Zone yeah so it it is an overlay Zone that is now presently industrial correct or part part of it yeah and so what we're basically doing is allowing uh multi-unit residential uh complexes within a zone that is also industrial yes part of it and use we and there's no presently no proposal by any uh oh entity to build it correct well nothing's been passed so there's nothing there so we have the existing PUD which is there right now that allows for density up to seven units per acre with um if it's age restricted or five units per acre no age restrictions um and there was um a 55 and up um apartment Apartments uh permitted a couple years ago for 125 South Main it has not been developed now 72 units okay it's I realize it but just because I I think people are getting all wound up about something just because something is zoned to potentially be in an area doesn't mean that you're ever going to see anything right or that or that you're got to see it in our lifetime all right we're well aware of that we're well aware this this vote for the state is just for the 3A zoning what happens next it's anybody's guess but let's not kill ourselves if it's Zone 3A and there a station right there it doesn't doesn't take much to go lead yourself to the right answers like someone's got some points going to build on that and then we're out of up to 750 unit you say that but caros behind my property on High Street yes that board is that goes down to R Hill Road there is a multi-acre uh industrial Zone that has been in uh zon that way since zoning came into volition in the count and it lays vacant okay so I I don't see what all the hubub is about but that's like I said that's my my and that's I think one of the points that needs to be made is that it's already been zoned yeah we're not adding zon already been zoned it's been zon density at seven and the reality to go from s to 16 units per acre we don't have the infrastructure for that but part of the miscommunication is that we we're not going to have the infrastructure well we're not going to have the infrastructure in the near future but we are working on the sewer line so that will change that will definitely change the ability you may be able to get 16 units per acre if the sewer line goes in my projection for a sewer line it could be if it's done it could be 101 15 years from now but it could come to fruition somewhere down the line so I don't want to say it can't ever happen right now currently no we don't have the capacity for um for 16 years per acre unless they can tap into that sewer and I know Debbie said she could but I I have some questions about that and unfortunately the water sewer didn't come today which I did invite them because I think there's a lot there's a big piece of this that they need to be on the on the hook for and answer those types of questions and that is something that I did see online right is people saying oh well they're going to put wells in and they going to run they're going to run out groundwater dry and I think something needs to be said about you know that they need to if there's if this is built in what you know the infrastructure is not there like Debbie's project they need to bring that infrastructure to themselves right we're not going to be on the hook to bring it to them it's just some it's just points that brings on do we have any local control relative to requirements for building within there because you say that but if somebody comes in to decide you know what I'm just going to save my own well I'll do my own water treatment I'm going to put my own sewer Treatment Facility in it's not a secret that happens all over the place where they have individual treatment facilities water right we know there's Town water over there no I understand that but and you could do a sewer treatment plan I mean in Hansen we did um 55 housing like 500 yeah and and and I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum of child right keeping my into the ground with all this housing across the country right five years ago right adus would have been a cursed word right uh exil accessory DW accessory dwell unit right inlaw apartment you know more specifically our local one would be a one room yard okay it is now widely accepted across the country that this is a reasonable and viable solution cities and towns are right because it is a less of a local imprint right you're not cutting down trees you're using existing well and septics you're uh and and often times these are are are older folks depending on how so they're not putting kids in school right doing what we so to answer the question housing is on the Forefront they are going to be and this election coming up in November is going to be critical I would suggest that if that that if current leadership stays in there that the housing you're going to see that the federal government and state governments are going to be throwing money at housing so yes while right now interest rates are through the roof right now it may not be attractive when developer knows you can't say no I don't need to go through special permitting I don't need to do things like that this is just basically a bu right watch because we are right for it we have gas we have sewer we have water we have rail service we have we have proximity to large scale facilities with jobs access to the access to the highway it's a perfect place to put this stuff and you're right the Pud but the critical difference is with the p and its density you had to have at least three of the four things you couldn't just do housing you had to do housing and Vil and so there were three of them so it made it more of a a project that was beneficial for the town right local stores where our residents can work that we can frequent right jobs increase taxes right we're not operating at a net loss on taxes like we do on a residential house like most people don't understand it takes 30 years to pay back what your one child went through school on a average size house with taxes at 60 years if you have two kids we never make the money back for school we make it up with commercial so what do we do we take our Prime commercial area and we're going to decide where it has all the advantages of commercial and we're going to insist on putting potentially 700 units and I don't mean we but I mean the state it doesn't make good business sense for us it just doesn't and and whether you're for or against that I don't like the way this was done because Freetown went out of their way to be on the right side of this a long time and again I don't disagree necessarily with you you know we've had these conversations I'm just trying to make sure everybody's prepared the same information you vote any way you want if this gets to vote I mean I don't know I just want to make sure that someone doesn't get asked a question and they're sitting they on well so the qu the question so I need the question answered though do we have the ability all right we adopt 3A can we adopt regulations within that that says if you are going to operate within three you must tie into town se you must tie into town one can we do that through regulations I'm not sure if that's allowed through regulations I know State isn't reviewing they're only reviewing our bylaw they're not reviewing our regulations time does the bylaw within the bylaw does it state that the towns have the right to promate rules and regulations no yeah we have we already have rules and regulations associated with the Pud so if this passes then we'll amend those regulations to go with the new District okay it's probably only through the home new petition the right you have the town right so and know going back to sewer and water during the study that was conducted right through surp everything else there is capacity at front Fall River for both to handle both so there was a discussion that whether they're tap Wells again up to the developer we we their money right if they come in and build it's but does Fall River have the capacity for town to extend sewer and water yes the answer is yes to that so I know SE and water is not the water is not here but that was their when I asked that question that was their answer so was Sur critically aware of the volume that we are in contract negotiations with with PA my understanding yes there Consulting discuss with just point of clarification it's um environmental Partners is Consulting on the sewer project not serid oh sorry no it's okay I that there was enough SE capacity but did they say there was enough water capacity I mean it goes yeah it doesn't go hand in hand no far water yes to sell water they far more water than they'll not probably realistic have use because yeah but this was developed they have said that current yeah that's correct what are we taking capacity away from if we if we give a 100,000 gallons a day to the residential does that me future businesses looking to to locate down there no longer have the capacity these are things that need to be then thought about not just in the immediacy but going forward as the health of the community right there's reasons why water and sewer can enter into 20-year contracts because you need that reliability so again I would suggest that currently we would have that volumetric relief you know we can we can get rid of it how much more can we get rid of and and what does that mean now we've talked about trying to bring sewer down so we can accommodate out behind American and and where Boston beer was going to be located right our Industrial Area uh but if the volume of sewage is taken up before it even gets down there don't forget we have Ashlin and we have Stop and Shop that's prior to that so I I forget the number if it was 55 million gallons and something I I I forget exactly from the contract it's been a while since I read it but but it again okay we have the volume for it but are we taking away future receipts future tax revenue future jobs for people in you know in our our local industrial zone so that's the big question yeah no no reality is you're either going to have Industrial in that zone or you're going to have housing one or the other and they're going to get the sewer and the capacity that they seem to have is like they had endless capacity is what we got from in fact we're trying to find Capac we were trying to find numbers to put in this what do you mean projected flows you know Americans build out Crystal Springs like if gonna add them in how how much that would add and what you know I mean we really threw a lot at them and they were like y we can handle it PA River said yeah I don't know does any anybody have questions that they need information before going into tonight's meeting that's on this one or any other yeah got cover grants got covered the what was the other big one so it was grants right I invited this someone from the school but they didn't respond and they're busy I can reach out to them but I don't know if anybody from the school committee is going to be there tonight I don't know if anybody come to school themselves going to be there toight no yet so um is the expectation if no one from the school committee is there to answer a question who's gonna respond you're gonna respond that um you know nobody from the school committee's here you the question whether or not we can absorb 100 children like the proverbial whatever the number it is can we absorb more I believe the answer is no looking at their rollment numb that you know 10 years ago we had a thousand more students in our I know we have 2700 right now around so sure right but again these are very legitimate questions right I'm not saying that we're gonna We I'm not saying we answer the question I'm saying unfortunately the school's not here to answer that question because like I said when I look at those numbers you say that I thought 10 years ago we had 3700 students we have 2700 now so we definitely have some capacity somewhere so we may have phys we might have physical room does that mean that classes go from 20 to 25 20 to 27 right so now that F people's interest possibly uh does that mean we have to hire another 10 or 12 staff at whatever that number represents right it's I think you're going down a rabbit hole right because we're gonna get taxes from these extra units too so where where's we' already established well you've established but I don't know you know what I mean well I'm telling you right I I got up on tell me I've used these numbers before they're very real okay you get $5,000 on average from a very nice house here in Town it cost $25,000 a year net minimum School spending is it not for a student somewhere around there yeah and I don't think it's 25 regardless I mean I don't think we should get up there try and no we should we shouldn't but the it's not hard to answer right net School spending multiply times 12 that's what it cost to put that kid through school for the 12 years not amizing not doing any of that just saying okay it's a net loss no matter how it it's it's just that's how that's how it was that's the argument that was made on town meeting for this isn't the first time the state given us something Adult Entertainment District windmills right thank you Deval solar thank you Deval right all these things but what wasn't attached was the threat of a damn loss okay and that's what makes this different and this is so much more of an impact it will directly affect everybody's pocketbook in this town if we have something like this I just I guess and I I'm not saying I disagree with you because I actually agree with you on a lot of levels Kev if we answer them and we don't have exact numbers we're going down a rabbit hole I would just answer it blanket statement that this is a net loss not giving numbers yeah no I guess that's the point what I'm make it we don't need exact numb somebody has to be able to sit there and say well this will clearly increase the budget of the school department to what degree that's a statement you can make but to say we don't know I mean I can't answer like I said where I look at I'm like who knows the superintendent should be able to answer at any point in time of the day or night a very simple question Mr super or Mr superintendent your your in your school if we add 100 students what does it mean if we add 100 middle-aged school students to you what does it mean and they should be able to tell you we're gonna have to add a couple classes we'll have to bring in a couple more teachers right we'll have to add a couple more buses which again the issue right compounds the issue food the food program is going to cost more money oh right I think the the answer let's say this goes through right pros and cons it goes through this is going to cost the town quite a bit of money across the board all services they got be stressed from police and fire schools everything so we have to buil right approved and built correct with caveat that it gets approved and 750 units go up over a course of a course of time right I don't think it go overnight probably years before it happens but we have to plan for that we always have to plan for potential of up to 750 units what will that town look like and what we'll do to the services we have in town and that answer is it's going to financially hurt all right not to mention the character of the Town also gets hurt as well because you're adding now this huge apartment complex essentially to what it is of different various residential whether it's portable housing or whether it's seniors whatever we can't control that we have no say in the matter Victoria if they these APS if they're can they be Condominiums it's completely up to the develop EXA so we have no say they wouldn't be renters they would bonus correct tax or buy but that's not the model that's currently being built on the regular right what the model that's currently being built for multiple housing is one way you get government reimbursement and by the way that's not going anywhere that's actually going to be increasing right you look where they're trying to put some folks that need housing right and and they're finding all manner there are there are hotels that are book solid right now why because they're getting that check from the government so Charlie's point is correct that if it was going to be Standalone very highend attractive Condominiums for those uh those Discerning customers right but we're talking about something that's just over the border of Fall River and if you are thinking about living in some sort of housing complex and you can get just north of Fall River but yet have all the the services there that you potentially need and you can put your kids in in a suburban school system yes yes and yes trust me when I tell you they build it they will come it will get anything well that's what we currently have I think is is the the people that live in this town it's going to be up to them howay decide but let's face it if you do add more more more people your small town field it starts starts disappearing right so the concern for most people that live here especially those that lived here for years is our small town now turns more of into a caros when I was born there was in free town there was like 3,000 people now it's now it's grown to be 300 set and you know how you mitigated that Charlie you came up with you need an acre and 3/4 to have a lot you know what they used to call that Charlie they called that snob zoning and they adopted that they adopted that here to maintain growth and do it in a smart way right no one saying we don't want housing we passed a PUD job right we did this I'm not gonna get into an I mean I think is this is an point out a few facts there's no affordable piece to this byw yes so I know I've seen that on some pages online there is no requirement to be affordable um to have kind of a shame affable no no so there's no requirement but it doesn't prohibit no it doesn't stop changing in the future after 3A is approved so from reading the communities act they can change that act to make sure that we have ABC required down the road they can amend that law as then we would have to amend the district to follow yeah so the whole thing is we have a lot of questions but we're not getting many answers from the people in charge that's my biggest concern is we go let's say we pass this and then nothing happens and also they change it saying this will be a requirement this will you will have to do ABC and now we have to meet those requirements with little say that's my concern and here's my my other question and this is this is selfishly it's a question for me because what what made me think of this is train stock that's Middle lake bill right now they're relocating it quarter of a mile the yeah it's not far so does that change what their zone is right so they built a bunch of housing all around that and that was they it right and then they moved the station so does that create a new District because they move the station no no I don't know specifically Middleboro or Lakeville requirements zoning is adopted Z it is even if they move that station which talk about wasting money the zoning would stay there yeah the station would be yes well that's so that is what happened bu my other question is we have the reason they had to move the Lake midle Station was because the TR now the train deadlines at uh middle Lakeville they would have to back the train from the track that they're going to go on to down to the station that's why they changed the station oh I get I get but can you imagine can you imagine 20 years from now weu everything around that station and they move the station but then here's my other question is we have two lines that run through town right carent length we have the east side and then the ass side so it stops there if they decide hey we want to put a stop on the east side of town do we have to adopt another District on that side of town so so now you're talking about 750 additional units on that side of now and that's something I haven't heard talked of and I'm not seeing that they're talking of it but I guess it's just a it's a question that I've thought of you know that just blows through town on well no one can answer it right because no one would have thought even a year ago that we would be listening to our own govern government right threatening to sue individual communities for not adopting Z like like that's where we're at so I have no trust whatsoever they can tell you whatever wherever you call and this is what's going to happen this is what we believe and there was a very Sly answer that they gave you it was they get out of jail free card you pointed that out that they don't ultimately have authority over those others which is true I they don't want to say give me an answer and then it be something different so I can understand that right the Milton lawsuit I was I read something that found French well not French Milton had a second district they wanted to put a somewhere else right so they couldn't fit everything within that half mile radius that the NTA communities ass requires so they proposed not for them and milon's case they stated that they had a vibrant uh Community for restaurants and Commercial area so that half mile would really wouldn't really suit that area because because of the commercial aspect of it they so they said we can put x amount in this area but we wanted to put other the the remaining amount just outside a half mile with it State changing um and I believe that's one of the the things that they're talking about is the possibility of of expanding that zone have you heard anything on that as far as are they allowed to if we can't do everything than a half mile can they go out to one mile so radius yeah just to clarify so for I'm not familiar with milon requirements but with for free Town um 40% of our Zone has to be within a half mile so you could make the other 60% um they say in an area where there's transit or downtown area where it's feasible so they do put that in there it's not so now you're expanding that so that 40% could be that so right now correct me if I'm wrong 30% of the development has to be open space right of the yeah of the project area y 30% of open space so 40% has to be there so 10% of that open space well if you take that 40% requirement 30% is open space now you expand the boundary you're in downtown so you're you're right there on next to Juniors and thens so the the possibility of those housing units getting closer and closer to town is a real possibility or is it going the other direction well I'm not really sure what you mean all right so if you take a circle yeah and you stick the peut area in that Circle okay half mile that of that of that Center is that that half mile Zone that the m is talking about yeah right but 30% of that zone it has to be open space I'm assuming for the people that potentially live there right and you're saying only 40% has to be in that zoning 60% could be extended out outside a half mile no it's that's for the Zone itself I'm sorry so like for the Zone itself so we have 4 40% of the Zone has to be within a half mile the 30% open space requirement is something the planning board had put in there and it's on a you it's per like per law or the project 30% of the law area has to be designated like for open space which makes sense you have that many units you want some place where they can you know congregate and everything else right but what does that do to the half mile radius can they push it out to let's say mile mile and a half out from the team for the stage man well so the 30% open space requirement is not going to affect the Zone okay good but what about the can my question is can the state come back and say can we expand expand a half mile Zone to a one mile Zone from the station I mean they can amend the section 3A however they would like but I mean and that's my concern so far the proposal we have will comply with what's current the current act so as of today we're we be in compliance for that area but they could change it to expand the Zone I mean I can't say what the state will do right I understand that and can how many how many acres how many acres is the Zone it's how many acres do are we required to have we're required to have 50 50 acres correct that has the capacity to support 750 units um the current PDD is I want to say well over that I mean the current P I'm sorry so the district in existence is the boundary is bigger than 50 acres I don't know the exact number and how much of that um all it all of yeah it's all we there's one town own parcel in there actually it's 43 Acres very tiny um yeah but eight units on yeah well we do have a 70,000 foot law siiz minimum so we're keeping the same um you know 1.61 Acres requirement so you cannot build on that you'd have to combine that with another part so just to be clear um did I answer your question yes my question so we have to put 50 acres in have we got right that's what you said right the Zone has to be at least 8 at all 50 of those acres are with in the half mile no 40% has to be within the half mile of the SE so 50 acres that are in the current Kema that we need to have in there is that within a half mile no it's not we satisfy the 40% requirement within the half mile okay but the question is where's the other 60% it's the existing P mod so it's all so 100% of this Zone 3A is within half mile I don't know the exact distance of the half mile radius I don't have it on my chart but I believe copar is outside the half mile radius there's some that's that's a question that may come up right when we if somebody gets up and says 40% of it I hear where's the other 60% and and the answer back should be this is where it can go or this I mean I don't know exactly what the answer is but certainly we don't want it out there going to T that people think that 60% of this can go anywhere else in no can only go in the approved zone right but the question is if I go from the T Station how far into town can I go do I go to rual road do I ises that 60% extend to Freeman Circle so it's more about the boundaries of the Zone how I yeah boundaries yeah how far down free this thing potentially go because I believe free circles in that P is we're confused not actual Z with the aage pr right so so you have this you have this imaginary line This is that's the undering only 40% of that what she's saying is only 40% of that zone is within the half a mile right right right so the% it's just not within the half a month right okay yes that's exactly right so that that's a contiguous possible and it's all loated there we have it on a map right so so you'll be able to demonstrate that this is how far away it can't it's not going to be located on the middle of Chase Road it's not going to be on slab Bridge it's not going to crine here it is right and I think that's the Crux of the question and this is why okay we really need to concentrate on on on the question is how far outside of that half mile and and the answer is well here's the zone right here it is it goes as at that street and that over there people are going to understand I think that's I think that's the reality um okay you know the 50 acre pmod that is wholly within the it's not completely within that half mile is what you're the the PE the yeah the the existing zoning boundaries are not all within the half mile radius you have some okay you know Town Forest in the back there you can all I guess the answer the I guess the question I have is is is could we not just take the 50 acres of p and say this is our Zone well that's what we're doing we're using the existing boundaries of the of the P we didn't touch the bound the 50 acres of the P I believe the Pont is over 50 acres I don't know the exact District size but we would be in compliance we didn't touch the boundaries of the P of the pmod so you might want to know figure out how many acres that is well you might also want to when you're talking about PUD you and I know what that means Kevin knows what that means but very few other people know what that means but again again understanding that we don't want to we don't want to co mingle this 3A is not a PUD right so you could already have you could basically say we already have an existing clear mixed use development with increased densities this 3A would be within that now the reality is I think there's only 50 of the Acres that are unused right po part I think has taking up the rest of it yeah the only there's only three undeveloped parcels and that's about about 20 acres of land that's undeveloped over there um that meets the the lot size requirement um lot size requirement yes the 1.618 it's the lot size requirement it is yes that's what's proposed yes proposed in a new regulation in the PDD bylaw so you're seeing there's only 2 AC is right now that's not developed correct so that would tell me that the most unless Stop and Shop Copart or anyone else sold we would only get a maximum of 320 years but I also look at it that's that's one side the other side is is okay there's a smaller business there that's developed or a house that can by the part figures out they make more money by renting our houses than they do selling used cars is the day that they put houses there these companies are not in business to lose money right these are global companies they make decisions hell we have a company that's a big company just knocked down a building for the hell of it in the middle of our damn town right not doing a damn thing with it right so so companies do some really strange things right uh they will operate at a loss just to claim it right so so uh I I mean you you you look at that's the reality okay uh if I had a nickel for every damn proposal that we have when somebody was going to do something right um so clearly there's a lack of trust that we have so um at least the Pont is within there okay it's an area that is serviced already I think that's a good question I would be hesitant to to throw out that because again I'm trying to figure out how this meets it you have to have 750 homes right or you have to have the capacity to build 750 units right and I and so I'm trying to figure out how so that capacity is not raw land that capacity being a zone that would accommodate that correct and the state excludes some land from this calculation so like you know it came up early in the planning process why don't we Zone the state forest you cannot it's permanently protected so they excluded a lot of land um that you could not just what about their their land at their t station is on train station it's it's a part of the Zone but it is considered excluded land it was no POS I why wouldn't you want to put that on there already develop commercial property right proximal to the train no no your point about land that's own now co- Poots land and so forth that that's the point also they can go in and anything that is zoned particular for that possible land can be done on so just because you're zoning a certain area of land in to be an overlay or another Zone doesn't mean that housing is ever got to be built on no just means it can be it can't be right just remember when we adopted the solar bylaw who the hell would ever thought that people are going to have commercial grade solar facilities in their backyard and I'll be damn right none of us can predict the future but what you have to do you absolutely have to do is is plan for the worst and expect the right plan for the worst and hope for the best right so we can sit there and say well won't happen it might not happen but but then here we are we never thought that we'd have sewers come into town natural gas we never thought we'd have a rail station here we are we fought against the rail station but they wanted to put the overnight they wanted to put the layover station in Freetown we fought them put it down in PA river right we don't want it up here in our community right we have been pushing back on the rail for a long time because we have seen that's demonstrated often times what kind of an effect it can have um and so I I think at the end of the day I'm glad that we had this meeting because it clarified things for me I think it's going to make it easier to answer questions tonight I think if we're short and sweeten to the point um it's not a planning board's fault there's 750 is not a hot number they could be reduced to 500 units 450 like in Rochester well there's a 3A minimum requirement because we're an NBTA station Community we have to meet the xmo so ours is 750 units Rochester Rochester has a different classification so we're con Rochester is considered an adjacent small town community so in their um their capacity number their unit capacity is based off of available land it's based off of it's something different in that case was the water they didn't have enough water to support 750 units so it's I don't believe that's the case but I'm not too familiar with their I am I work there I I was familiar with the planning process when that was going on so it was ruc at 350 facing the m m the water had to support development so um I'm just going to say that unless we have any additional I just want make sure everybody has the information they need to answer questions tonight does anybody have any other questions on any other articles before we go into down meeting tonight the only one I I've seen is regarding the ambulance I know you can talk to that why we you name now versus buy them one later a pretty clear cut doll dollar a month right doll Dollar Question people don't understand I have all the confidence in the world that exp trying to think what else people are thinking about all I heard people talking about you never right you're going based off of what we see online very dangerous exactly first mistake is to read anything on the incident first mistake is reading it second mistake is posting anything all right those two things stop and then uh our Treasurer won't be there tonight so I will try to answer any questions that have to do with her articles and if we can't get them done well we can't I don't know I'll do my best with that think as well as I can most is there a statistic that depicts how many people can live in a unit um a statistic that may be think said family sized I requ they have to be family sized homes right whatever they're called I can answer it if somebody liked me to yeah might be a question uh if it's if if it's based on sew or septic right then it would have to be two people per bedroom right so depending on the number of bedrooms and typically you'd have two two people per bedroom that is an occupancy that's not to say that people won't stay there now if it's on sewer then there may be a different but typically for permanent purposes it's two people per bedroom G so if it was a three-bedroom he assumed that there' be six people that could potentially live there is there any Board of Health reg that says like hey you can't have you need a hundred okay I I fostered children and I had to legally have I forget 80 100 square feet per child right in my in my so so so there's going to be minimum building code right there's going to be minimum housing standards there's going to be definitions of what a bedroom is with even them we're going to operate under the assumption that the new housing that's is going to get built is going to be all Cod and regulation right and so an easy answer is that if you were going to be looking and planning at something I would say two people per bedroom is is how you have to look at it that that could be the maximum that could potentially live there right so they say it's a two-bedroom oh it's just me and my wife and well the reality is you sell that and you can have four people with right so so it's not even just the number of units it's the it's the number of people right that fluctuate right uh and and and are those people with children are those people older folks you know and we couldn't restrict that no we could not could notri bedrooms great on some no and again which is why we went out of our way to give the density if you are age restricted in the P we recognize that there is an appetite for that type of housing not necessarily and as I talked to my compatriots in other towns there's an influx of people coming into communities and it's hard just to manage just just people just the volume of things that need to go on it's hard so yeah we're lucky we don't have a hotel so any other articles orc I mean it in good conversation by everyone today I want to make sure everybody's got as much information as prepared of can be for tonight and rally around Victoria and well yeah bottom line you're not going to be up by yourself um in fact I I prefer you not to answer every single question that goes off there right I don't want because that's just you that's this as we demonstrated here in this meeting there PL to go around as far as the the people are in chared of that particular subject matter again understanding plb's role they did not bring this right corre so so their role is they're the legal board or committee that has to hear any public hearing relative to zoning right so the fact of the matter is I think in a different uh in under different leadership the plan board might have been you know what okay I'm going to get up there we're just going to say that we grudgingly we did this we don't agree with it but we did it because we don't want to be on the wrong side of the law we're going to let you folks that's it we're not getting up to try to defend it we're not going to get up and try to pursue it we're not going to get up and that that's a Tac that that could have been taken too so I suggest that if the planning board wants to get up there and promote this to a certain degree that they are going to be on the hook to answer some of those questions but if it's a very simple matter of fact we held the public hearing this this is what they're asking us to do we agree or we disagree there you go and if there's a question about what about sewage water and sewer answers it I think it's and that's and that's what that it's not all directed at the plan what I'm getting you get and then you sit back down my job is done I I told the people somebody's made a motion is there's conversation there's discussion is sured going to be there no they're not no okay is there a reason why I thought we were expecting Sur to be there no no I never said Sera I say you told me so okay I I said I thought we were expecting Sera to be there for support okay um all right they assist at all in this and uh uh yes in amending the district they did I don't I believe they're they're helping other communities I don't think they went to any of their Town meetings either all right that's it you a whole bunch of sh no we just want to make sure that we're all the same page yeah that I'm to [Music] make see you all