##VIDEO ID:qrqvdYrHB_0## we are recording we got okay check the minutes out for last month please any changes omissions or additions make a motion to set the minutes of last okay uh all business Gail's not going to be here tonight Jackie on vacation she said she couldn't make it because of that last month um repair of the erosion is going to be on the week of the 19th he hasn't got a firm dat he called me this morning and uh they going to basically fill in what eroded away take up all the old uh straw fences um and the mats that piled up down at the uh get the be actuate and out and I don't know what they're [Music] the if they're going to clean that out or what but they're going to uh do something with that and then they'll put more mats down more Loom and more grass and we'll go from there where's the uh erosion please J on both sides of the most of it's between uh BNC taxiway which is the first where you get on 36 and the next one up by uh Johnson's and from there down on the lower half where it gets a steeper bank it's to the runway it's parallel to the runway in the middle between the runway and the taxi way and the taxi way and it's there are there are some above that on the flat part and there's some up in between the C and D Taxi way but not as much all the pipes and whatnot that they put into the ground to control water flow where did this erosion stem from well so water running off the Runway down into the bottom of the PIP is what's underneath the pipes are underneath the taxi W there's nothing down coming down middle no nothing pipes or anything well there's pipes from the two drains on the right on by the tie down area and up by Kevin yeah that come down through and then there's another um one that comes from I'm not sure whether it's the one right over here on the other side of the fence that comes over and comes out over here also so the rain water that spills off the Runway and then disperses to the east is that basically creating the beginnings of a little Pond or something or is there a way for it to exit it exits down by B Taxi way at the South you have to walk down there and take a look at it makes perfect sense what they did but it's just I think the banking are a little too steep for what they want they should have stoned the whole thing going to do a trough like that should have stoned it right St uh FAA didn't even want as much Stone as they got there but they uh for Mk is that you just didn't want it until shark case plan went down into the Gul is considered an obstruction cuz you can't roll over it could just collapse a year in because uh all they did was sweep it off the last time and uh it didn't last but and then uh they're going to be closed for they finger about one day and they did pretty much all of it one day the last time too so we'll see uh there are a couple of places and you have to really go out there and take a look because uh SE taxi where I think it is had one of the straw barrias that they had staked in the ground these Stakes weren't even 2 feet long and uh one of them went completely through the tunnel and pil it up on the other side and then there was another one thatway through and we figured that's the reason the water went over because that was blocking the flow through that grain that pipe but neither one of the pipes have got much sand in it at all cuz the water was going through there so fast um but out of the four they did that the last time they fixed it was between storms 2 and three we had two STS after that that did all the damage that they fixed so they are uh like I said sometime on the week of the 19th they're supposed to be coming out L you know we'll close the airport for one day and they are who please Ray maker Ray maker the contractor and how was you're doing with the septic system don't haven't heard anything between him and and uh backner so I don't know what they're doing down there how they I haven't heard anything was put that way I don't that that septic system down this way is functional you think yeah yeah the B is takes care of his bathroom his hand his hand yeah but uh I guess Dominic mentioned that I we ran out of water a couple of times last month you know last four weeks but uh that was going to be uh but filled right back up again with the rinestone um on the master plan they wanted us to look at this and decide and you feel that the SI rebuilding would be better off maybe by Kevin's between Kevin's or the I was thinking right about here you know part of this tie down we got over here that we don't use can take part of that put the SV building you come in they City plowers down here and all you going walk to The Pedestrian gate over to the building raise a door PL what's the nickname for this little Shack here out this new thing what's that called that's the electrical one there's no acronym to go over that it's just nothing I electrical building electrical building so okay um it looks like they last week in the discussions we were talking about or U after the last last time that the S building was only going to be, 1600 square ft yeah that sounds small it is small so let's see my hanger is ballpark that too small twice three times 40 by 43 or something yeah I don't know yeah supp I don't know here again the the patent answer that seems to come Gil says well this is what the fa FAA says and pro but uh I've seen bigger ones and I've seen smaller ones I haven't looked at the one the last one they built that I know of was down in chadam yeah and I haven't looked at that one yet and the uh s and this Sr building purpose is to store equipment like so removal equipment and stuff like that I want it to be a I wanted my original idea was make it big enough so it's like a hanger almost and you can put the radiant heat in it and then if the plane needs to frost so these lovely big trucks and plows need to go in there right and maybe the John tractor the John tractor is down in the new hanger yeah all be up here yeah and and the Zero Turns down there the three the three that we need to put in a hanger that we got stuck over this hanger should be how you build yeah but I think all of it should be in the same building or there should be a repair B work but it should be inside is this s Sr building on the uh on the schedule of project it's one of the projects that we've been trying for for years my hanger cost it's about 40 by 40 by pretty well made and it's at least 10 years old and it cost including the big door uh 80 grand roughly speaking well 6 an down there that we just built a it was a 1.2 yeah well I'm just pointing out that on whe the government's involved they thought it was going to be 300,000 what the S no it was supposed to be 300 and it came in at a million 1.2 wages yeah no but what well Gil engineering this year too yeah and he said that so at any rate what so on the SIU building you want to it's got to be bigger bigger relocate you want closer to this spot right here yes because like I said see ploud here so you have to just walk through pan gate over to the hanger get in the equipment out you go otherwise p g stand by hanger got just walk the time we had snow walking from the G gate over here down to Old H get St you can run out of bre currently the SR is plannned for a position down well that's they proposed on on that chapter six there hey I'd like to point out that this is me being in a difficult human being but we're actually having a conversation and I'm I'm hearing communication instead of just listening to this drone of M coming from that well we can have these conversations at any time if there's more than four of us if there are four people or more I have to post it record it yeah but this is what we're doing tonight we're recording it we're posed it and we're already so would you want I agree that should be up here in the corner so that it doesn't block any of view out of the building here AC the airport to the end of the runway don't want to absolutely man well we got drainage over in the corner that we got to be careful of too but I think they could if depends how big the building is I mean it's going to go back to where the where the drain cave is over here it's still 40 ft be a will be block to view you be able to see right but I think that the at least the front half of this building should be able to see up to the up to Runway bet same why not put it in the field on the other side of the fence that's why I say let any any of these are a good idea no no over there of course my old my old saying was if you want to get some real income in here you got to get somebody to get any longer Runway or what are the chances we going get any longer Runway not not like time I mean if we can get into Phil's will so that we get his property and in pokies we might have enough to put a CR on in and that would that would suit IR wonderfully but uh you got it enables a bigger aircraft to come in and you get possibly somebody that come in and be a a maintenance shop that would survive uh but anyhow on the S rebuilding I'll I'll put it uh in this corner so to speak or over on this side here um even the retention kit you never see any water no it goes down it doesn't and the drainage quite a bit above that yeah yeah but uh yeah I haven't seen it's it's soft as hell I mowed that with the no G but attacked it in a different Ang um okay uh see there part of their proposal was two more tea hangers two-sided identical to what's down there and on to the other end so right now you've got five T's down that way six down there and you're talking about another six maybe attached to the southern end 12 so total of 18 T hangers with access both from the East and the West yes only this one I would like to put a little steeper and does that come before a little overhang does that come before or after the SR building depends on we can talk them in the pushing who we talking into FAA FAA and it's lower priority than it is getting additional income for airports so the SR takes a back seat to the hanger idea yeah I thought we were on schedule last time I looked at the master planners were 2028 could be and I'm I'm still pushing for it the only thing they wanted to do with the tie down area was um they were going to reduce the number of tie downs but they have to do that to accommodate a greater Wing stand yeah not the payments the same size but they got to replace the eliminate but they've got to spread out the tie downs a little bit more um to accommodate a Creer R span so it was basically going to be the same thing um but some of the uh some of the symbols on what's ties is what 38 39 s like 39 I think great wingspan and there's some out there that have got over 40 um okay we have just show a general layout I I label is in the we got them that's number four the designated area across there is I think it it's 100 ft maybe from the center line of the runway or the edge of the runway the L okay and they want to you know that was going to be all um solar panels was that they were talking for um I don't know if that's going to f because last time wasn't accepting any solar electricity but uh I'm you know the last big push that they put on for it who's who's talking about the Sol I mean who's who's ping the mayor oh the mayor okay Jim does he want him east or west W of the runway west west on the hill uh so that's a slope and it's got good exposure to the east but when the Sun is far to the west and setting it's you're not going to be picking up any energy with a slope like that it depends on how you place the pan and who's going to Pi the bill for that so I mean I don't I don't think we got three phase down here I'm just know they would have to run and all do Po from from rout 28 but uh I thought they had down here last year Tim hes V was thinking about selling his hanger going to sell it to Tim hes and one of the things Tim has asked was there three phase down here and I guess there was phase down here yeah well yeah there would be if because all the uh old lights were 220 and and I don't know if that was single that was single 408 or 4 yeah but they had to have the higher phases because there was so much distance I mean they looking at the who's interested in whoever that is he's an engine re builder for planes in F yeah he ain't doing it anym I mean he's still doing fish you sign up do it up here but uh we've got still a fairly sizable area that's considered Wetlands over there but I word haded last year they were talking about it and rewriting some of the RS and wetlands have to have a flow in and a flow out um I think all the time if it's a veral work or something like that they not going to consider that weap yeah and that's what's over there that's what's over there which means f it in yeah and we'd be all right and there's there's one over there down on this end and then up on this end there's a little piece on the end according to this m but uh they were also talking about putting the fence on that side where the trees are right at the tree line or just somewhere along in there that's why I was asking about 100 ft from the center line and uh they want to extend down around the airport there is a plan somewhere and sorry U I said marked off marked off up here that's where I start um and this is all for that shoulder array no it's for the fence this is for the fence around the airport and why is that on the list of desired items is pushing for solar panels on temples and property right well this is all temples and property yeah it's got his property but it's in Teton yeah so they want the fence over over here to the West Somewhere no right where your finger is down next to the runway go down right there that blue black line 100 ft away from the center basically I think from the center of the runway and the purpose for the fence is what to enclose and secure the airport from bears maybe well it'll cut down on the volume I don't know if it'll actually cut down but Wheels to cut through here all the time yeah yeah and uh the um know for a game and uh people walking on run people walk around the end over here too by all path the ground I saw somebody out in the corner way up in there I don't know what they were doing here last week somebody go out there all the time I don't know what they do yeah I've had a couple people ask me about all the junk out Woods out there too there junk out there oh yeah a couple of vehicles pipes cement pipes we pipes there a few out there there used to be a junk like a junk yeah but at any rate that they wanted to complete the fence all the way around to this end and uh I think it's following the property line but I don't know again who are who are they that want FAA apply for Grants to get paid for now did they lower the fence at the end of the runway that they needed and it's the test depends on who you ask and we're waiting for the inspection we'll have we have to wait for the inspection to clear it up you no it you came up I notic wondering if to pass the test I personally don't think so it's not low enough they didn't lower where they want to lower where it was supposed to be lower it's my so somebody wasn't following instructions we don't know I just know what I heard from from uh should a little more W Sil uh what's his name um but we'll see the test supposed to be scheduled I haven't heard it's some of it's been submitted for the navigational part of it and the uh I haven't heard when that's going to happen there's a small group of trees off the right hand side down here I want to come down and then ones out the on the overrun area at the left hand east side is a bunch too I want to cut and then there's up here on the West side of the it's well it's right at the corner of the fence where the overrun is right in that area there's a cluster of birch trees that probably by the end of this year will be thr off and be in it a little bit um yeah next they've been moved hot several times the uh I wanted to show you the picture off the end of the runway I'm standing on the center line right here they lowered the fence over here but if you follow the C it's the fence yeah going well it's it's that's what I thought it's way over here where the end of the wall is they came off the corner here and went down and then they went over to the corner of the wall came back up and join and it's my opinion it's not not not the point and this is sine and that's too high they when I heard Owen talking about SOA at State he says that this fence should be below or at mhm the and I thought the wall originally was going to be one more block High because they could have gone flat without doing this at the end but oh my I'm not engine anyhow I pointed that so that may be something has be who's complaining about the fence as it is now m m yeah M which is so it's viewed as a hazard yeah because if a plane goes off the end of the runway yeah it would catch its wheels or whatever on the fence I said we already had a plane go off the end that run away clear fine and ended up in the trees but not quite as far as the P so was that colia no but uh the corner of the wall is the cor the walls right here and this is the center line again but that's where it is over in this corner you can see where the corner wall is over that side and there is the other uh corner of the wall was over here and they thought it was going to be 100 ft and claim they put 100 ft in from the corner of I got pictures do wants a fence yeah modification to the fence well they want yeah they wanted to move and so when we get the inspection when everything's complete that's what we're going to do that's those will come to light so we have to wait but I uh in the plan they recommended that the all of that area be designated non aronal which can lend to putting other businesses in there but I think we should keep it as there I agree with that I'd rather fill it with hangers once you lose it you can't get it back that's for sure there's one particular airport that is overbuilt like that let try to remember what well Sanford has done a wonderful job they've added they've got Provisions now for another 20 hangers up there and uh they're T hangers and I think they're building them themselves and uh that would be the maximum effort that we can get if we could do it but um and then Kevin has been he asked me about contractors uh they would do commercial he wants to do he's got to put a half a roof on the annex and he wants to put sighting on that I'm going to make a comment I've flown into this Hopedale airport which is it's called the Hopedale Industrial Park the runway is just like Garder it runs north to south been there once and the goddamn thing has got these industrial buildings on the west side and on the east side side it's almost like you're Landing in a canyon in a canyon and it's it's I I find it extremely u unappetizing in comparison to this lovely uh undeveloped uh Green Space the problem is undeveloped Green Space doesn't ear any money yeah I know I know but U the Hopedale airport sucks in comparison to this place right here even though it's about the same size for that reason yeah and uh it's congested and uh not a pretty thing I think that one of the things that I wish they would allow and they did it in North Adams when they got the when they bought an existing building and moved it on site for a uh airport administration building the building is absolutely gorgeous inside the manager out there is a friend of mine and uh they bought it for a fraction of what it cost to make it building it was adjacent to the property so they didn't have to move it too far but they jacked it up moved it put it on a new slab and they're golden and it's beautiful inside I mean he has really fixed the place up what's his purpose what's it for administration building this this yeah but it was really really a well done job and I was doctor's office and they got a deal on it and uh so the Kevin buildings on here is to talking about making that uh Administration and SN that would be great that would be great is it for sale yeah lot of money but I don't think it's as much as it would be to I don't think it's as much as he thinks well it's not a bad building but he's never he I was talking to him last week he says yeah there's still something Tom close being in there electric motors and he he never thr anything out either but [Music] want but uh goes with AC AC no there's 13 acres off the end or 13 or n 13 I think what across the road and into the woods or something yeah Tak SP of uh snake Pond and that whole area and then the last thing that they had was designated area for future hang of development which is from the tie down area to the fence all the way down yep I agree with that um okay so I'm going to bore you guys so Su summing it up We've Got U an srre building that people are talking about we've got a a doubling u a tripling of the hanger space off to the South we're talking about a fence to the West uh we're talking about the fense problem at the far end that is that's do that's current right now and that's going to be fixed that's not part of this so are among all these things that you've just put in front of L and we've sort of discussed are we supposed to make a decision about what's number one what's number two is that what we're supposed to be doing we can or are we just supposed to be aware of uh where does the decision making come from come from us from us and we can put them in that I would personally think that the only question I have is down the other end if we triple the size of that hanger are we going to run into problems trying to plow it you might not into problems trying to fill it up never no okay that's great not even not remely possible so that's a money generating proposition correct but the concern is we got a snow blow but we can't blow it towards the runway cuz we would put it on the tax other side can like fine blow into into on the uh west side of this new assortment of hangers these 12 extra te hangers you could not blow it just plow the stuff off to the edge of the asphalt that would be sufficient would it not yeah but then of a storm it could build up more you take the loader and you could and keep piling it higher or taking fil you don't have to use the blower is what I'm saying well maybe not I don't know overwhelming we might not have any y but that would be my number one yeah and here again I don't know about the soul pan I've heard several people say that the Maya kill it the last time when they when it came up I've heard other people say well T didn't want to buy it by the electricity I've heard I don't know I don't know I don't I don't know what the right answer is if you build the SR building it's going to be a lower price tag I'm guessing then the but and if you do that you're going to free up a couple of existing hangers for more rental because that's the equipment could be moved out of those tea hangers where it doesn't fit anything I wouldn't use those ke hangers for rentals because it's on the North side and the one thing that that has is plenty of ice in the winter I mean if it's a summertime rental onlyon fine but those two hangers over there are are trouble I think an Sr building would be a nice addition to this shooting man well let me put it this way too the other thing that's going to the reason I say this hang is down the other end we have a chance like 80% chance that we can get them built yes our rebuilding might be 30% and this is the whims and the inclinations of the FAA is that what you're talking about say that yeah yeah I bought one set of hangers six more hangers down at the far end as a and then an Sr building one two Punch or something all possibilities I would worry about renting these hangers we did for years snow the biggest thing is plow plow snow and you just careful when you get down there the guys's been renting those places for years okay but I would a lot of people don't even fly with they probably just pocket in there and forget about it but you still get rent on it is theed in the so I mean your you're not facing side when we build your hang so yeah you plow that you're fine still open the doors and everything so sometimes it gets a little S free but so my question is is the mayor talking about a solar field a solar array because it provides there some way of justifying the the bare existence of this Runway that you know only a dozen people use it offset some of the expense for the airport it also gives them a lot of s and tax rate offs and all kinds of other cool things did I hear this right we make generate uh income from the solar panel that they're going to cut the budget probably well they won't cut the budget they just won't have to give us as much as as much we get so the budget is going to stay the same solar panel less money I think there's a way to increase the budget so there's a lot of empty land in Garder and this greater area U they're even talking about a racetrack as you all know here shot down why the hell do they need to put a solar array here what's that all about cuz it's stay on and available see moreone if someone loses control of the airplane they landing on top of with solar panels that's not going to be a plus I'm not worried about that anywhere near as much as I'm you know I don't know if it's got a chance even done what's going to do more damage trees or solar panels solar panels Yeah by yeah light you off trees no the old old saying was the question was always asked by the FAA at safety C if you had a choice be climbing in the pond or on the trees where would you land the land your engine failed you had the choice between water and trees where would you go trees yes trees trees small trees the leaves tops of the trees tops of the trees especially if they're sh just be careful when you open the door loen your seat Bel yeah you may have a big step to get to the ground oh yeah but that's the general consensus and survivable and playe a lot of times isn't even told if it's night time you turn the rning light on if you don't like what you see let's get wait till morning but uh so if we uh let's get back here and put numbers on this so we and I don't know I I can't remember the stuff that was I was going to look up the report and scan it again cuz I forgot what I was talking about I think the taxi way probably being I mean the tie down error is probably going to be the next thing that gets done cuz we had the runway project done so I think uh that's pretty simple and straightforward yeah I think it's you know repave it get rid of the grass for a minute don't need are they going to revise that somewhat if if they tell them that we want the SR building on that would be the other thing we would ask at the time but we could have that face West and come out and have it adjacent with a ramp so that it wouldn't take any of them so there's a way around it make it a little deeper um The Hanger probably number two that sound right yep yes building number three two and a half two and a half or three I would say it's just we want to look at on that yeah so I'm just saying [Applause] three uh the fencing at the Far That Could That Could no this fence around the close the rest of the airport the last possible thing that's last number 10 if we have a list of 10 makebe 12 yeah wasn't the wasn't the fence being paid for by yeah or yeah it may only be a 2 half% too is to keep all the illegal immigrants coming across the Texas border from entering into the when we did dispensing they didn't want to spend the money to do the whole airport right they said we didn't need it now they're saying we need it wow when they do defensing weay that we don't want the solar panels to go you want to make that number four because the S building was number three they paid for the for the blower they paid for the trucks and they're not giving us money for the building to take care of it right so s um yes building would give this sort of a professional demeanor to the whole place that doesn't have one M you know well usually they vary in some place so they don't want to put airplanes but um the land across there you want to leave that a Aral absolutely everything arle that's possible that was part of the land that was donated by r v is it yeah for the purpose of the airport yeah yeah and isn't it to some degree Jim a safety issue in respects to you lose your in your altitude's not great enough you can't make it turn around maybe you can make it to that little grass strip and save your ass yeah and then how about Kevin's building to try and buy it number five I'd uh I'd buy that Kevin's building and breathe on it before I want to put a solar AR in that's my opinion I'd agree with that let's put it before the solar well I have it as was number two number number one was the tie down areas number two is the additional hus number three is the s number four is the Kev is the uh sold so you want to put that in yeah I just made that comment so what's the chance that we can put Kevin's first why because then we have a whole building to do everything that's already there that would be the s that would be the administration building that would be everything and this building could go down and we can put hangers here or open this up to or just to be a hanger how about the additional hanger side of it from the tie down area to the fence you want to consider that or no six enlarge the tie down area and when we do that we're between the tie down area and the fence there's vacant ground we had a so when they decided to do the hangers down here is because I mentioned that they had me go they load during winter and they would take some measurements and stuff and the biggest thing is that such such a slope they would have to build up the land to keep the The Hanger level that's why they moved it down there so putting hangers up here you really trick well then let's put it that lower on the on the list of things to do well right now it's at the end so you go you want to leave it that way cuz I'd rather put the hangers over instead of the only problem putting across there you can't cross the access Rod move the road you'd have to move the road you have to bring it out on the back side of the hanger move you can put a gate close the road when you're right Kevin when doing I thought that's yeah release all that's that's why they did it real quick yeah the other thing I would want to put into this m and see if I could get them to add it would be that would be really nice repeat that J please water the question where it becomes hairry is is it Templeton or is it g well the water in store goes where s it ends there it ends right like Snake Road at the intersection of the snake Pond Road is cuz it's before that house but uh is this seage I hav to check this I know you get water like I said by Chuck I don't how far goes I think it's St Road and Snake Road Jo Airport Road I think that's where the there's a hard right there by the pole yeah and that's where this water and SE is because the wel at the end of snake Bar Road yeah has to send its sewage from the filter to the treatment PL but that's all got but that would be my only other thing because that would attract business little bit exactly and it would make a take a make a huge difference in if a business wanted to start especially a restaurant or a manufacturing facility of some kind or you know repair facility if we had would be bring definitely worth our property worth more yeah um but the FAA or any of the other systems would have anything to do with that that would be between Templeton and the town of G yeah I think when they were talking about the SI they built it they were put in the I well that would imagine they wanted to have men's and women's three oh is this the Master Plan update that we've been kicking around yes yes me call [Music] Jackie after after a certain volume and intensity my brain just stops working okay moving on then are anything more you want to discuss about that master plan no okay um I have no report from Isabelle he called me at 2:00 and said no and uh she under Island I guess or something um I haven't gotten any figures through the guide system she hasn't me anything for that um or the budget review there's no budget yeah well the only thing I had for the budget was what they gave me from City Hall and I haven't updated it at [Applause] [Applause] all what's that yeah soda machine vending machines we there is ice cream in the hanger from uh last year Dakota yeah he he and they've been doing something and they hanging for the last month two months while he's waiting for his airplane to be fixed and they've been doing something in there so they fill that up with ice cream and there's some water in there and everything so he said fre for the Tak do that yeah um the other thing is uh on the new business I've got Boston soaring club called me who Boston soaring uh they want to move up here the first right around the first 31st I think it is or the 1st of September for 10 days to two weeks with their s months and they did that last year for two weeks roughly and we're happy I guess so they want to come back park there craft out there on the tight end Y and there's a couple of them that going to store their H uh they don't need hanger space because they take the winds off and put them in a trail they just want to PP the trailers so truck them back and forth and that's fine those the guys are yeah and do they make a donation to do this or we just doing it I haven't I don't know what is last year she handled most of it then I got the I got the call I forwarded it to forwarded the message to her last week when I got the call so other than that make a motion to join the meeting anything else should yeah we uh are we going to keep these meetings at 5:00 what do you want to do guys I just 6:30 yeah 6 or 6:30 I prefer uh the earlier the better you know then after meeting I get to go home versus hanging around work till 6 6:30 but whatever it's up to you guys I have a problem with 5:00 I have no problem with 5:00 5:30 6 whatever but how about 5:30 is a [Music] compromise I like early I just sometimes ion be able to make 5:30 530 age with that yeah or we can just try different times and see which is want too and we can always change it yeah I'm easily confused so read your emails text messages that's why I need to write numbers and add names in IT addresses for 200 get yeah no what female is a disaster for some reason it hasn't been a problem in the past sometimes me for a couple months yeah I think one year he only had two meetings yeah I know for long as I've been here all were always at 6:30 and then when s started taking over down to City Hall she didn't want to have to wait till 6:30 so this why we started at 5 S but she's been long gone yeah for two years yeah and okay next meing is Wednesday September 4th 4th lab day week at 5:30 94 2 for 5:30 so yep that majority of the people say that yep yep okay and what time you got 600 we ar okay good meeting actually was able to pay attention and hear what was being asked and discussed