[Music] thank you Colleen for telling me we would have gone without recording y so the first one Lee so we just the just to verify that that we did approve the minute from the the 16th before the recording started but the uh Neil Jackson 25 cold Hill Drive we did approve this one but the the new owners want to build a garage and the garage is going right where the SAS was going to go so Neil moved the system that we talked about this at the last meeting and we said we were going to let him go to within the I think it's 62 ft for the SAS for the Wetland but we did not give him a variance on water table separation so he did submit at the repair for three-bedroom house the complete system uh the only thing that I've got down here is that the review is not complete Because unless Neil dropped it off he said he was going to drop off the the PE stamp for the the wall that he's got at the side of the SAS but but Neil redesign the system to allow the installation of the garage the SS move to the rear or the West closer to the wetlands it is a cleared grassy one acre lot slightly slope down to the to the rear to the west then till the 32 and 34 in water table wetlands are to the West the issues with the house orientation in the garage the water table the dense soil and the wetlands the design is it's a smaller SAS but the design is for a 1500g two compartment tank with a filter single pump and a th gallon pump chamber does have the the separate electrical circuits required they two trenches each with six Elgen b43 modules in the c33 Sands um The Trenches have vents uh reusing the existing plumbing and the building sewer fill is required a concrete wall and a 40 mil polyethylene barrier on the north side of the SAS there's 450 gallons a day provided versus 440 required the reserve area is not provided it's it's a on a repair you don't have to 4 foot water table separation ballast is required for the tank and the pump chamber he's removing the existing uh septic tank uh I've noted that the pump chamber and the wet and the septic tank separation to the wetlands more than 100 feet the SAS to the wetlands is 62 feet to the Wetland versus 50 feet that's required uh at our last meeting Bill and in fact the three of us agreed that that in this case the our 100 foot requirement could be waved and we would allow that uh the ex and also the this hasn't changed but the existing wealth is about 80 feet from the new septic tank and that the same as the one we approved so the discussing was the prent permit The Fill requirement the electrical permit no Plumping permit is required because we're reusing plump existing Plumbing uh there is an elevation error on one Trent uh it is a drawing error it's not it's not a design error the seal has with fixing that and a PE stamp is required for the wall what are your thoughts we um the only thing I don't see um on the on the south side of the property actually on on both sides uh South and North I don't see um unless I'm missing it notation on neighbors Wells because there are houses on both sides obviously uh I don't see a notation uh to either 23 or 27 so then we should we should put a verification that another condition besid the PE stamp we have to verify that the the SAS is further than 100 feet from any neighboring Wells yeah I just don't see a notation and usually there is one here yeah um but I'm reading quickly and I don't I didn't come up with it okay that might be an oversight but it's okay it should be it it should be there Le so we so what we've got on this drawing that that we don't have that elevation is incorrect we don't have the PE stamp and we don't we haven't verified that that the the wells the neighboring Wells have have the separate required separation so so maybe this one is there's enough enough here that we we not approve this that we approve it subject to to uh meeting those three conditions please yeah that way we don't have that's more than fair if Neil supplies that information and um we attach it to this application and it's it meets all the requirements then there's no sense in Waiting two more weeks for us to meet again okay so that's what s that's what we're doing okay you're proving it subject to those three things right or we are going to approve it we approved it the design we're not approving the permit so the permit doesn't get approved until those three conditions are met and at that point on once uh in fact Lee why don't we you and I leave it that once I see that I can then leten approve it is that okay absolutely okay the next one the next one Lee I have not I did not complete the review now this is for 326 Bachelor Street if you're going from the center of town for uh belgia toown so you you uh pass Harris Street drop down the the hill to to try Avenue and then come up to the top of the hill it's on it's on that flat spot up on and on the right and it's a repair what Neil is submitted as a repair but it's a who house lot there's a a house on the front as you look at from the street on the front left the main house but then on the back there on the right there is another there a looks like a twocc car garage with an apartment in it I'm not sure anybody I'm not even sure that it's being used or has ever been used but but uh anyways that it's mainly a cleared one acre it's only a one acre lot deep Sands no water table I think there actually was water table like 80 something inches uh two houses there's only one well one septic system the issues that I had and I and I told Neil that I I couldn't I couldn't review this without board involvement but the issu says it's a a two house property Pro possibly it's not permitted right now there's a single well a Syle a single septic system uh I'm not sure what what we want whether we want to approve this thing but the the then I've got the the standard trench trench permit is required the uh I've said what do we want the building inspector approval there are no lot Lin shown there's no Locust shown um talk about do we need two Wells for these two houses that well dimension aren't install aren't included on this one either Le U do we need two septic systems are there deed restrictions for two-bedroom two-bedroom design for the SAS and and Lee I I don't know on on this one I I guess my feeling is that that the board shouldn't approve a septic system for something that could be illegal in terms of the building inspector and if in fact there is a dwelling unit that's unpermitted and not approved yet allowing a septic system to go into it I I have issues with I I guess what I guess what my recommendation would be to to get the building inspector involved and say hey is this is this legal to be putting a a second house here I Lee what are you think your thoughts no I I would agree that uh baggage on this location so Crossing I miss I'm not hearing you right now le oh is that better now yeah okay so yeah I would I would think that at least have this print or something similar across the building inspector's desk get him to weigh in on this and check out the legality of it um because as we know from the past we had a a rather large house on the corner of Barton and pleasant and the whole house was split uh and half two different owners now going forward that was some years ago but this piece of property would end up uh in a similar fashion um I just don't know what the town bylaw stay about again your point of one well two locations uh two kitchens multiple bedrooms one SAS maybe everything needs to have its own little domain so if they do in fact later in life decide to split this up it's done and it's not a big deal just paperwork okay so Colleen both Le and I are saying is we're not approving this design we're not reviewing it and we're asking we're going to ask the building inspector for his opinion on whether the project the project can move forward at all okay right I'll send him the print yeah because Lee and I both are of the opinion that that the Board of Health shouldn't approve a septic system for something that's not legal to be there yeah yep okay yeah the whole thing could be uh questionable to his office and we don't want to okay us uh us his expertise and yeah add to the problem okay okay the next one Lee is is for the replacement of a septic tank and there are actually two Deb boxes there's a debox on both at the bottom of the hill one debox the cut down on the velocity going down the the Steep Hill and the other debox for the esas it's at my house uh Allan is the one that that going to talk about it's just one that that you know I asked actually Josh hugler to come in and just replace it because I haven't Tre the the system properly the the tank properly and I'm afraid when I see all these things that are being replaced rotten tanks rotten debox that I'd rather not end up in trouble in the middle of a winter so I can't I can ask answer questions but I can't discuss it really because I'm in Conflict so so I just yeah we'll pass on this is Bill coming in later turn or can we just you know I don't know if as far as I can see according to the regulations is that we well since I won't I'll be abstaining but the we have a quum we have a quum at the meeting so it's a legal it's a it is a legal meeting and that that a vote of one with an exension would be a pass okay I mean we're not engineering anything different we're simply doing a replacement of the component of that one component well it's actually three components the septic tank and the two debers but why don't we okay so why don't say we can wait but but I don't want to forget either no I think Allan's going to be here tonight so so uh yeah one way if alen doesn't come then that's a different thing because I yeah then then we can do that but but let's not have you approve it until Allan's here if he is here okay okay I just want to let you know that Lynn I think Lynn's uh here so Lynn is here okay then let's let's break it right is that you Lynn actually actually let's right okay we let's ask Lynn to hang in there for one more thing Allan Allen has got one for 68 ammer street it's a it's a repair it's a replacement of an sas his it's uh the Octagon House Lee if you're if you're coming from Five Corners you go up the hill and then make the first dip and then start up the hill again on the right side before you get get to the I I got an idea I know yeah based upon the house subcription I know where you are okay it's it's a fill system it's a apparently in 2008 they replaced the debox I mean the uh n no the tank um the re the review is complete but it it's what it is is a cleared grassy one and a half acre lot it's slope down really to the West towards the road and towards five corner it was pill 28 in water table um what there The Proposal is that the system was designed in fills with the forfoot Separation The Fill was put in N9 foot spacing on the trenches and this is to to put three three foot by 50 foot by 12 in effective dep frenches without vents uh it when they put it in they didn't put enough still on the the north side they didn't put the The Fill actually to put the extra print in so they they ended at 5 ft from the edge of the trench instead of going another 9 fet so this requires that fill to be put in place there's 556 gallons a day provided versus 550 gallons required there's not a reserve area because this is in the reserve area with a 4 foot water table separation that the issue the SAS and the septic tank and is cleared the 100 feet to Wells and and wetlands all more than 100 feet so this is a one of the few times when we approve a set of trenches with 9 foot spacing and leave the space in between for the reserve and this is exactly that to replace it put the reserve where it was designed now went out and looked at the property actually had him dig a hole next to the the stand in the system but he did do a perk test so that the things that were questioning there there's a trench permit required there is still required as I explained an issue with the lack of the per and what Allan said he said you know we've got the the fil on top it's it's sand it's two minutes sand that's what you he said that's what we brought in when the design was made and he said if you go in and do the perk test the way the perk test is supposed to be under the SAS he says you're GNA dig out this beautiful sand that you need to use to put the new system in and he said it was it's been per two different times he he dug the whole outside of the the SAS and he said you could it's only a 28 in water table so he says we're going to have trouble doing the perk test more than likely and it's not going to be in the place that we said it needs to be so we Allan said this is really really a unique case and suggesting that that we not do the purest on this one good I understand um the only um uh brief conversation I had with Allen was that he did have a desire for whoever does the work on this site to also because the tank is very deep he wants to see uh the outlet uh side of the tank exposed it's I think the tank is maybe six or seven feet down in the ground right now wow so and it's he just wants to be sure that the tank is in even though it's not that old um in really great condition to go forward for the new owner okay so I guess my next question is uh I think I know the answer but um is Mr Shambo gonna be doing his own work this point I don't think he has a insoled department okay so all right just let it go so the the question then also Lee I it's been a long time since you've looked at it but I want wonder if the if the the towers that are in there the extensions from the tank up to the surface are have been installed um I although I don't know how many there yeah they must some risers so it looks like we would approve this design coling subject to verification that that the outlet of the the septic tank is is sound and a good in good condition it has to be exposed and that if the risers from the tank to the surface aren't there that they need to be installed also is that what we're saying Lee I believe so and should we also make a footnote to Allen that um he needs to confirm that uh the homeowner does not do his own work since he has no permit to operate in town yes we should say that that this has to be installed by a licensed installer and installer with a current license inst current license yeah just in case okay okay and since there's going to be still installed you know the fill requirement is there that that that needs to be a a strip inspection before the fill is place right right okay that's part of our f requirement but that's just so everybody knows that that this doesn't happen okay now we have Lynn hello Hi how are you good good how are you tght I'm okay pretty good um so for me I have a couple questions the first question on my list is uh cruising Cafe um he asked Isaac had asked me to go there and do an inspection which I thought I was going in to do a an inspection inspection but end up being like a pre-operational inspection for the kitchen um and so so you know I gave them you know a list of stuff to do before opening but it sounds like there's an issue now with the water I'm not sure what's going on with that but I guess my question is whether or not you want me to go back there while they're up and running I'm assuming the answer is yes to do an actual inspection take temps and do all that what is your thought my thought is yes you do go back in yeah I figured yeah I would support that for sure L since this one is set up that the the septic system has got really limited capability and they're they're supposed to be using all disposable plates and and silverware well not silverware utensils and minimizing the generation of any kind of oil or grease so that that's really important but now we go ahead yeah he told me that he said that because I asked about because I was asking about the dis because they do have a dishwasher in there um but he because it didn't look like it was hooked up or it didn't look like it was going to be function anytime soon um and I had known because I had read some stuff about that before what what was said um in the meetings but he said that he was not going to use it for that reason which is the right answer which I I assume that's what was going on on but he was only going to be doing washing dishes but most of the stuff is just going to be disposable because of that so that's what he had told me so I don't think he's going to be doing much of um dishes at all and I can't remember what the menu is but you know I'm sure he's going to use enough grease that's for sure but um he said he was going to have the grease trap looked at because I had asked him about the grease trap um and get that going too so um but again nothing was really up and running at that point like as far as the kitchen is concerned we're at a spot Lee I don't know if you saw what ly just mentioned is that the D has just sent out a note saying that that they that operation is currently listed as a public water supply and they are not yeah and they're not in compliance with the reporting and not having a an operator it looks like and so the D is really saying that they're in just St violation and uh I'm just I'm just wondering if to let the guy operate if you tell him that he's not authorized to serve that he can't make ice and serve it he can't hook with the liquid that comes from the the well he can't make soda you know or if whatever he's doing he can't let people drink that water else go ahead how can they say it's public water supply when it's never opened asked would be what 25 25 people for more than 60 days a year is that what it is oh so are they referring to the number of seats that are in the uh I haven't been in there for a couple years so I don't know what they have proceeding right now if that's where they're getting this uh data well I'm guessing it was someone that reported to him that's saying you know we're going to serve more than 25 people a day when we're open oh okay so that's what that's their goal but okay they haven't gotten there yet so he's shooting himself in the foot here well I unless he just doesn't know that he's listed as a public water supply you know maybe it's never his intent to do to be serving the public water and right but yeah but uh but your your your comments are correct that the manufacturer of of you know if they make the soft of ice cream if they make ice uh ice they make uh different sodas and and they have you know 25 plus a day then yeah it's public water supply well can I say something when when I was there um at the time during the inspection what from my understanding is that cuz he he's not supposed to be doing soft serve um so he's cuz otherwise that's that has to get tested as well going to a lab so he's just doing he's literally scooping ice cream from a carton and and and um serving it to the public and the soda is coming from like a fountain you know like a you know one of those have think of the word but the machines and stuff like I I don't I don't know I'm not I don't know if he's using his own water now that I think about it to use to get that going or how that works but and I'm trying to think if there was an ice machine he's got to have one but I I don't remember seeing it but I do so many inspections I don't even remember but yeah from from your standpoint Len yeah we're at a spot he he basically has has two choices here one is if he's going to supply water water or ice or things made with his water if he's going to supply that to the public he can't open until he until he gets in compliance with what the D is saying the other is if you go back in and say whoa as long as you don't Supply this then you can go to the then he's got he's actually got two routes to go one is he can go and say well I'd like to supply this but I've got to get back up and in in good standing with the state as a public water supply the other is that he said I'm never going to be a public water supply and I'm going to get desertified so he would have to go through which is the same thing when we get when we get to the union Mark that's in fact what union Mark did had done is they got themselves desertified okay oh okay so there's a way out obviously there is a way out the question is do we do we wanna you know he he do we want to give him the room if his if his choice is that he well I guess he could he could go an in between way if we let them and say for right now you can't Supply the water to anybody and he says okay I I'll do that for the next month or two months until I get I get back online and get myself current with the public water supply so we could do that so he he but for right now we would have to say you can't open that Lynn would go in and say you can't you can't be serving people this water and he made with this water and she youen you would have to be satisfied that he was doing that if we allowed it to happen right right Lee my my feeling right now is is this guy has been he's been up and up with us I would like not to get into a position that that we say okay you've gone this far now you're stuck you can't open at all yeah he seem he seems that way yeah I agree I I feel like he's he's going to do the right thing and do what we talk honestly like what everyone tells him to do I think he's very frustrated with the process it sounded like when he was talking to me not necessarily with a Board of Health but like in general um trying to get this up and going I could fully understand and appreciate where he's coming from yeah um he's getting beat up every time he turns his head that's what he said yeah with this project and obviously he's got you know every 30 days there's an invoice due to the bank or whoever yeah he needs a little bit of of wigger room to uh make payments here before the uh you know the inevitable yeah I can't remember if the last owner had public water there or not I don't even remember that he must I I recall that because I was trying to determine whether there there were three of them in that little spot there was Dollar General had a public water supply that they were dealing with and they got rid of theirs and then they put it I think they finally went back with one I can't remember where they are but they were moving their wealth uh so they started with the public water supply and then I think they got rid of it and then they went I think they moved the well again to get get it back but that but across the street there's a public water supply and and this one so Lon it looks like Lee you you agreed I'm say putting in your words that that in your mouth that that we're saying you can in fact open but you can't be until this is resolved you can't be supplying any product that including ice that to the public that's made with your water that's correct and that's all you want me to okay so that's so okay and that's easy I can do that easily tomorrow um and that's all you want me to say to him not like giving him like um or is he just have to figure out on his own what he needs to do well he's gotta decide go ahead no I'm sorry the uh the D sent him a note and maybe oh so he got the note okay okay well they said this week they will issue one they will maybe I don't know if they've issued yeah but yeah sorry yeah I'm gonna go in there he's gonna be like what are you talking about you know what I mean okay you should tell maybe you can get colen to give give you a copy of what C sent to us yeah I'll send it to LY when I get it okay that sounds good and then if if if if we're really lucky then there'll be an individual who signed the letter rather than just a corporate the state so if it's an individual that individual could certainly uh throw him a bone and discuss how to survive and uh lose temporarily or permanently um the public water supply status that he thinks he needs because that may be too much for him to take on right now it may be he may be in lots of trouble you know it it may make him put a well in or something that's way up at the end of the driving range yeah and at this point in time after the last year of you know um struggling and now have this thing show up it's this could be just beyond the scope yeah okay okay yeah I mean I want to I want to help the guy but I want to be make sure that everybody of course is you know doing the right thing here um obviously for all parties concerned Lynn there's another one that's going to be we're going to talk about I see we I'm just looking at our schedule we're going to be we're already late on our our schedule for tonight but but uh they what I was GNA talk about tonight and it it would affect you we've I think we already got burned a little bit with the wine housee that we allowed uh events to occur on something that that was kind of existed and then we said oh we're gonna have a some kind of event and op operate with with a building without toilets and a b a business without toilets was it just sany cans and and now we've yeah he yeah he told me that okay yeah and then and then we've we've got the planning board I think maybe approve a an event site up on Harris Street uh we've got an event site that's approved at on Alder Street at a or ammer Street at a farm and my feeling my feeling is we've already got a protocol in a policy that says temporary food events require per every one of them requires a permit if you look at them the the churches get them the the bo Scouts get them everybody gets them and yeah of course we end up with with what looks like it people are trying to have have is saying hey just approve my site and I can have 150 people come over for a party and that I'll I'll get someone coming in with a to cater it and and don't worry we'll be all safe and I'll bring some toilets in and and instead of saying you know what every one of these events is is different you don't have any fixings you don't have any toilets you don't have any kitchens you don't have any trash pickup you don't have anything and all of a sudden you say oh let me have as many of these as I want and I think we've got a the Board of Health has got a protocol that says every one of these is going to get a permit and we don't we don't collect the money because of the nonprofits doing it but but I don't colen what is it a $100 permit is that what what's involved well you kind of did away with the um the one day right for except for nonprofits but um well a food truck those were food truck the mobile the Mobile Food Truck yes they get $100 for the year right but that was their their device they've got a machine that you can inspect and it's the same machine and it's it's not the same thing as is there's a whole thing out in the middle of a field that that's got all these things occurring and uh and I Lee I don't do you think that that's what we should what happens though the reason I'm saying it well Lynn is here is that would require that every one of these would end up having to get an inspection to find theya I'm guessing we'd have to say okay you guys have to tell us how many people are coming how many toilets you're having who's who owns the toilets what's the water supply who's doing the food how's the food being kept clean how are people washing their hands like you know there a whole bunch of things that have to be covered for a for a safe paid operation I I don't know what are you thinking are these events I'm I'm confused are these events like like someone like doing these things or is it someone's yard like I'm a little confused well it's for instance there's a farm there's a farm on on ammer street is this a farm and he's got a grassy area and he's got a barn and and sometimes they're in the barn sometimes they're not in the barn uh he's just got house septic system and they they have they claim up to 150 people going let's say someone was goingon to have a a wedding reception they could have 150 people there out in the field or and the one in h in the on Howard Street is up at the top of the the hill and it's the same same basic kind of concept they come in they put up a tent and and have every they keep talking about 150 I'm not sure if there's 250 I'm not sure how to stop 250 but but uh it's out the field and if they if they have one Santa can that's what they have at this point because we don't have any permit right right so so we could get a lot of people really sick I I I think that it's it's important that every single event be viewed as a unique event and therefore um you could get different food trucks uh different staff um there may or may not be anyone there who serves safe certified we just don't know these things my sense is that every event is unique and therefore every event needs to have its own permit each and every time I don't think I I agree I I totally agree even even if they have an annual like they should just apply for like a temporary per because it's different right yeah but I don't I don't think we should just say okay you have a permit for the next three months do what you want well usually I think usually temporary permits are like 14 is it for I think it's two weeks right 14 days well we don't have to it depends it depends what it is if it's a if it's a temporary permit like the Eastern State then you say okay it's that's really one event that's going on but if you if it's let's say Saturday I have one event and then a whole new group of people and a whole new group of food and a whole Sunday's the next one then those are different events yeah that's that's exactly my train of thought right now that's I agree 100% with that and each one is permitted yeah and you know it's all separate rules separate regulations and I don't know we touched upon this last meeting I don't know how the Sanic can industry measures the number of people versus the number of Sandy cans on site uh that has to be to me that's a critical um potential critical uh figure that we need to be aware of and enforce somehow looking at this before we go out of it yeah so L that we'll have to have something that that people have to fill out the form to tell us on on the on the the Sanic can when they're going to get there who's going to empty it how many they're going to be how many people are going to be there uh what do you do when a thing doesn't work right what there's a whole protocol of of about keeping a site safe but but as I look at this I'm guessing you could easily have lend get involved with a minimum of one inspection a time but you certainly could be end up with two inspections so what's the and we've got lens set up that is a $100 an inspection so what is the per for this a couple hundred dollars I think we got to go on a on a per per event basis yeah we're going to be we're going to be running negative money um and all the time if Lyn's doing Harris Mountain Road ammer Street The Wine House and the next one that we haven't heard about yet theoretically she could be out doing six eight uh events in a three-day period yeah so I think it's reasonable to to do a $200 permit for this per time per time yep so that's what we're gonna do okay so it'll be a temporary permit for $200 and it's going to be for one day for one day and um what if they're having it like for the weekend for two days or something just well typically if if I do like a just you know just my experience if because we get that all the time if you get an event and it's the same food you know the same food truck and all that and you got one person in there at least at surf safe you do it once and then they're there for the weekend or whatever and I'm done okay y um I mean three times yeah no because otherwise i' my I'd be out all the time call it we'll call it per event but if these gu if these people are doing per wedding you don't say oh it's a weekend wedding two different weddings is the same event it's not it's two different weddings no no no yeah yeah yeah because it's all it's a complete change of Staff food the whole thing is is all different I would agree it has be event and what's a reasonable time to to for notice for us that we make the we make the churches all everybody's got to give us 30 days is that what I think that's more than reasonable you know all of the planning and purchasing and cook and all the everything um just doesn't happen it's not like we're going to go to Colleen's house this weekend for steaks on the grill and we swing by the Stop and Shop we swing by the package store uh show up couple hours later we're cooking steaks on the grill lobsters are in the pot and a couple of drinks and everybody's happy that's not this kind of situation this is something that's planned they're advertising they're selling whatever they're selling to get people there so yeah there's a lot of planning involved just like Charter day anything else like that so do we do we do this in a way that says okay if it's less than 30 days the permit goes to $400 which makes it so it's worthwhile that Lynn ends up getting double pay I think that's reasonable because Lynn like the rest of us has a a life other than work or we may have to hire somebody we may have to hire somebody else please what what if we have to go out and and you know hire another inspector that that is not going to work for the $100 an inspection that Lyn's talking about good luck right that's what I'm saying good luck finding someone I mean if if you have you know obviously there's obviously occasions where you know especially if it's a weekend if I'm not around but typically I am around so like if I have enough notice I will you know unless I'm going to Portugal again or something you know what I mean like I'm typically around I have no problem but but I understand what you're saying I get it so okay so that's what we're gonna I and that being said um not that Colleen has nothing to do but um my suggestion would be to um send out notes to at least these three locations um Harris Street ammer Street and East Street The Wine House and let them know uh how the Rules of Engagement are going to be in this town and if they don't comply they don't have an event I mean there's no other way to do it no now I my guess is that that you're going to see that that the The Wine House ends up saying No this is this is no longer an event kind of thing it's a it's my business I'm no different than Anthony or something that that I'm there and that's what happens every weekend but but but here's the problem um that particular location um is not working with us we we have um we're waiting on a June the last you again we're we're still waiting on a June 1 septic plan from I let me let me get back to that Neil told me that by our next meeting he will have the design in for the the tight tank okay and I don't know there's a yeah we're running hopelessly late here at at this point Lyn must be ready to so we we actually got someplace here Lynn agrees with us that this is an event we've said that it's going to be a $200 permit per event it's going to be and it's a 30-day notice if it's less than 30 days it's a $400 per so um without killing more without killing more time if the STA M on E Street always uses the um then Lynn's point of having the same staff there Ser safe certified makes perfect sense however if every other weekend there's a different food truck vendor on site then they uh then the potential is that Lynn may or may not want to or be required to do an inspection and therefore the permitting has to be different you know what I mean right if it's gonna be if it's gonna be Sam's Hot Dogs every single weekend there and Sam's running a good operation everybody's happy if it's not um then we're opening the door to other situations and that may or may not be looked upon by the other uh event people as being biased in some way yeah I think what what you're gonna see happen I think yeah is that Jim try is gonna be say wait I'm a different thing I have my own building I'm now going to have six toilets that are going there I have my own water supply I've got my own staff I've got a food service license uh and he's gonna say I'm not a temporary guy I'm a I'm a a a fullblown person and that again what what I think we made the mistake on is saying once you say oh yeah your temporary you can get by with sanican that puts you into a whole different world and but but but Jim is moving out of that world that's what I think okay okay but he moves out and and does his own food prep or has someone do it for him we eliminate the food trucks then I agree it's a different it's a different um scenario a different set of rules I yeah I completely I completely get it I agree with that scenario iio I'm not on board with rotating different food trucks in and out um that aren't being looked at for sure you can't you I don't think you can do that and I and I've been there yeah and I've been there plenty of times when when it's different food trucks you know what I mean like I've I've been there a lot on the weekends so right and that's and and that's my point and right you know and the other thing to in is that um you're doing the town a really really good service um and you need to get paid for it and the town needs to generate income to pay the work that you're doing and all the paperwork that coling is generating to keep everything in motion right yeah yep but that whole thing when you Lee when you talk about it each one of these Pro just about says oh we're do using the toilets we're using the water we're and we have those aren't permanent things that at least right now they're not and so you're you're back to the what you're talking about it's you're either yeah on board as a permanent operation or you're a temporary and you're not going to get pick and choose and get the best of both worlds no no so okay okay so anyway okay Glen are you done with us yeah there was one of thing but I'm just G I know we're way over so it's fine well what one of the things while you're here we ought to at least ask what we're GNA do or talk about what we're gonna do on that Jacqueline Circle property that was my question yeah you're you're really it from what I can see L I'm pick from the picture I think we should condemn the place yeah I think I'm gonna pickle because I I also think if I go in there and it's gonna come from what I could see yes I agree with you so and then that leads to a whole other ball of like you know what I mean like if I was like a permanent you know whatever and Grandy it' be one thing but like this is going to be during work hours I know there's going to be court dates reinspection I'm going to be subpoenaed like I've seen this over and over again because it's happened to me um and that's where I get nervous because like you know my hands are kind of tied on that you know what I mean okay and maybe you only and only because I talked to the lawyer and the lawyers like basically said that the landlord is not going to do anything there he's refusing to fix anything he's trying to get everyone evicted and that's and I guess there's a four family unit one of the units left and there's three left so I don't know I don't know what you want me to do or that's why I asked you know I'm not sure I know what I know what to do right now now is exactly the time when our shared services help that's what I said yeah what I was thinking I think colen this is absolutely the time when we have to reach out to Northampton and say we're way over our head we had a big problem and what way over our head we need help on how to get get this thing resolved [Music] they've got yeah because the thing is like I I could initially go in there and do it but I know if I go initially in there I'm gonna be the one that you know what I mean like they're just going to keep coming after me but it's just one of those things because if I write the report then it's me um and that's where I was saying like maybe shared this is where shared services come in because this is going to be doing work hours 100% so that's what they're they've got full-time people Lynn and and that's what we're doing this for we we are definitely over our head yeah on this that makes the best best sense so Colleen can you get that and let's get it started I think but ly you're you think too from those pictures and what you see that this place we've had problems this this has not been a good landlord this I know yeah for many years this has been a a place that and if you look around there you look at the pictures on the outside and those junk cars and the trash get there in the last two months that's for sure I saw that yeah and just to let you know I am doing a housing inspection tomorrow on the other one because this one seems a little you know it's it shouldn't I'm G do it after work obviously but on South Street I can't remember the um yeah yeah that one yeah yeah so I'm going to head out there tomorrow and do that one I mean that one like I I'm fine doing it's just this one I know it's just going to be it's it's going to be a lot the other one it's on Jon street so so let's let you know let's do it that way so we have accomplish things with your L yeah we sure have okay okay thanks all right thank you have a good night byebye so we we are 45 minutes I didn't there I didn't see Allen uh didn't see Allen or Neil right Neil is here Neil's here okay Neil is next I guess we're at the point Lee Allan did submit I can't talk about it but in terms of of the permit for 48 fa ROP for for the replacement of the the septic tank it's a 1500 gallon two compartment septic tank with a filter and then the two D boxes down the the hill they replac in in position and just replace them take them out put new ones in are you going to approve the permit yes yes I am so I I had to abstain from that I'm in Conflict okay so we do we do have a a quorum and there was one exstension and and one approval so it's approv okay Neil we did we did the 25 uh cold Hill Drive we did have conditions on it there there actually three three conditions one is is that you're going to fix the elevation of that of the unit that are high that one to the right yeah yeah the second is you're going you need to supply the the stamp drawing from with the PE for the wall yeah and Lee noted that you did not show uh any note saying that the neighbors Wells are beyond the 100 feet from the SAS okay so you we approved the design but we're not going to to approve the permit until you you get those three things and then I will I instead of waiting for another meeting as soon as you get those and Colleen says she's got them then I'll authorize Lee authorize me to to to get it approved okay yeah the original plan had all the wells and we were actually further away than we were before so I will I will make sure I put those on the Revis plan okay the next one is on 326 Bachelor Street and what we've done is we've said that that uh we don't know that the that having that second unit on the property is is not a in fact we believe that it's it's probably a zoning violation but it may be pre-existing so before we approve a septic system design we've colen's going to get in touch with the building inspector and find out what's what's legal there so we can then talk to you Neil about what we're going to be requiring okay so and we did I did briefly talk to to Lee colen also but uh B is is here right now he's on the road someplace but uh on the wine house where I told Le that you told me that you were going to have the design for the the tight tanks before our next meeting y but what we didn't talk about is and we brought you heard some of the conversation about being a temporary operation and and what your goal is but but my feeling and I mentioned it to to Neil today or yesterday Le is that if your goal was to hurry up and get some toilets in there that were working you'd be on Neil's case and saying Neil get this thing done but your toilets would all be in position you're building whatever you're going to have it'd be all there saying Neil get me that pipe and tell me where it is so I can hook up but I haven't seen that construction of Curry I think he's waiting elevation for the tank so I'll make sure he has that quickly okay I'm sure I'm sure he's waiting for me so it you know I will take the B he says he's he says he's waiting for you so he he needs that elevation for the tag okay and you're be before we go Neil that that colen last week asked me about wrestle system and I told her that that we talked about having the and we actually approved the concept of having one pump as compared with two but I told Colleen we didn't act on it you didn't Supply us with the request for a variance and didn't right so I have to submit the form 9A yeah because we can't approve the installation fact we can't approve the design unless we approve the variance also okay all right I'll get that submitted I apologize so I don't think it's causing anybody any trouble right now but but uh they're ready then I don't want I don't want to be the hold up okay so is that it for you tonight Neil I think so okay okay thank you night okay good night so we can we can move out of this and uh start going that we we did approve the minute I've got colen p Lee is the for the 27th of of July and it's the normal 70h hour time feat for the the two weeks are we okay with that yes sure Callen I am too so that's approved okay the next one I have is the scheduled Department payments to the treasurer it's for this period is $1,680 and that's for $1,020 for Board of permit uh $660 for Board of Health licenses and that's it that totals the $1,680 are we okay with that yes I am to colen so that's approve okay the next one is a permit to operate a mobile food server and this is for Taylor TR Taylor the baker uh 732 Fuller Street lllo uh he did submit and I and at first I I had questioned and the the base of operation and they submitted from the town of llo their permit and it says that that uh tayor the baker is located at 732 fer Street and that they've got a permit for for eating and drinking established now I Le in your mind eating and drinking establishment means that they can prepare food is that correct well based upon I mean in my the definition of what you're saying that makes sounds like that's what's going on yeah okay so then they do have a base of operations so are we gonna approve this subject to Lynn inspecting it uh I would think that would be uh within the real yeah okay colen and that I agree so we'll prove that subject to Lynn inspecting it and passing it okay the next one is the certificate of compliance and this is this is for looks like it's from lri mul and it's a installation of an outlet here an existing tag and a new distribution box and she does have that's at 562 East State Street and he's got a layout of where the the dimensions are it's not a it's not total as built but it's not really as built there's no construction they just put in a a te and a a distribution box like are we okay with that Lee yeah um I was there for the initial Title Five and I was there probably about nine days ago um those two tasks have been completed uh far and you know everything appeared to be operating just fine when I was on site so I think we're I think we're good tyen I'm okay with that too so that's a okay okay the next one is construction of a new system oh that's a at 67 South Street we didn't accept that the last time because there wasn't an as built in terms of horizontal and vertical and now Allen has submitted the as built with horizontal and vertical uh dimensions are are we all set that that the final yes yes right yeah and I'm okay with that too col that's the the next one is a disposal uh construction permit and that is for it looks like a a debu at seven L Drive I don't know if it's some this is this is just this isn't a the it's not a completion one I don't think Colleen is it it's just an application oh it's an application to replace the um septic tank in the debox and debu are we okay with that Lee yeah this is the house that um the tank that exactly that was the problem so they are gonna I think Greg erson is going to replace uh but we have to do a uh an inspection after full occupancy because it hasn't taken water for we don't know how long that's right and Y they asked me about that on a perose last week I explained to him and they actually Neil was involved and Greg and they seem to understand that not sure that they like it but that they understand that I don't understand I don't understand how they feel good how anybody feels good about signing their name to something that that they say oh yeah that LE field is fine and it said we just don't know that it's not been used for years but we'll sign our name saying there's no water on the surface yeah I don't understand the uh the continuing argument with this phase of of their uh profession because it happens repeatedly I know and I I it's confusing I explained to to Greg and and and and actually to Neil Neil seems to understand that is they say you know the coach says we can we should approve it we can't not approve it I said well you should be happy that the Board of Health is is coming to your rescue saying even though you said it's okay we're saying maybe it's not okay and we get you off the hook to to let people really find out if it is okay and and Neil I think Neil understands Greg definitely seems to be saying the words say this and I go by the words and the he it's not coming it's not taking any money out of their pocket to to install get paid and then just wait and do a reinspection it would take a lot of money out of their pocket if they pass this thing and they find out in a short period of time time that uh the system in fact was in failure and I don't understand the resistance but that's up to them not us Greg says the rule says the rules say this that I said you know Greg he said go on the other side and think about if somebody brought you to court there was a jury and some attorney saids to you it said you have these rules and it and that's what it follow you followed he said yes and then he said do you install septic system do you look at do you think that this system was a good septic system and when he says I don't want you to say what the rules are I want you to be you're a train Observer is that in your mind a good septic system and when you say no it's not a good septic system then how many going to say how come it's not written any place that this is no good that it said it says yes it's a past with no questions I said you're GNA see that that someday someday it's likely that you're going to end up paying for the replacement of one of those and yeah in this litigious society that may not be far off that's right that the and I and I tell him I said that boor I think about this the other way think about this is saying that the state has got a list of things that are so terrible that you don't have to be an engineer and you don't have to be a sanitarian to look in that hole and say this is so terrible it fails and that P fail but you're not an engineer and you're not a sanitarian so there's a whole bunch of things that make it loud that you're not trained to do so that you're the first line of the system you're the first people that you're giving this information to the Board of Health to say thank you for looking in that hole but boy we're afraid of this and because of that we're gonna we're gonna do something about it and it's because you looked in and you reported on what you saw so we're part of the same team you're part of it and and we're not going to tell anyone else in that business the opposite everyone's going to be told the same thing so it's not as if his customers are being overcharged or overb built for something it doesn't matter if it was Greg Everson uh Tom from River Drive whoever they choose going to be told the same thing repeatedly Andy when I look at it yeah and they also that a lot of these guys have a real problem saying that the whole bunch of us are involved to stop people from getting sick to stop the environment from being hurt and that's what our jobs are is to make sure we're looking at it to understand the big picture the intent of things and you're part of the system it's not like you're there to try to get sneak something by for somebody and say yeah it's okay for the environment to be poisoned but I got it I got a rule here that says it's okay to do that and say no it's not okay to do that you're part of the you're part of the big picture and they they have a hard time understanding that they're part of making this world safe so but anyway so that was that's that one that the next one on the list was 48 fairy Hill Road you already approved it the next one is food establishment license for Wine House extended now we granted an extension colen what did we granted the extension for the retail um for ret but not the food part yes right and we granted that to what the the was it the 15th of August it was September uh oh God I don't have it in front of me I think it was the 1 of September okay so should we just do this one too that it wasn't my intent to have it SE Lee and now Bill oh yeah yeah yeah I mean um hello everyone thank you I justed sorry I'm late long as as long as you're here uh let's get this over so are we going to move this to also the the 1st of September I think we should yeah I'm good with that sure sure okay B are you dck repeat I can't hear you well inad inadvertently at the last meeting we extended wine houses uh ret we didn't retail H permit to the 1st of September but we didn't extend the food establishment to that date that was just we just left it sitting there at June 1st and I my feeling is we should just move both of them should have been the same think we our intent was to let them keep going yeah yeah them yeah make them concurrent that's fine yeah so we all agree okay before we go any further still that um the septic the septic tank and the two de boxes for 48 fairy Hill Road uh you weren't here I AB stained because it's my house I didn't talk about it Allan wasn't here Lee approved the permit to replace them uh but it was only Le that no no no that's fine dick I took a look at it that's fine everything's good there okay so Colleen both both Le all right yeah the next one is knickknack Bak hey dick dick I'm curious what you guys were discussing Everson what was that what was that location about the inspection uh there that one was on LY drive that we were talking about that was s l Drive where oh we've got one we're going to get to tonight you know here's my comment on that installers who are inspectors can be a little more Cavalier in their in their inspection calls because if they're ever taken a court or challenged the amount of time and effort and money it takes them to repair a system is essentially nil because they have their own equipment they can do it themselves uh they can do it at Cost so it's not quite it's not quite as uh substantial a penalty as if it were an outside party being the inspector so inspectors that happen to be installers I found over time tend to be a little more Cavalier on their inspection Criterion interesting yeah so they don't have quite as much skin in the game that's exactly right because if Greg were called out on it he'd say okay no problem I'll get my back ho and I'll get some sand and I'll get a tank and I'll put the thing in in about two days that's exactly right you're you're saying that figuratively you're not saying that about Greg you're not saying no no I'm just saying in general installers in general installers I'm just saying installers in general tend to be a little more aggressive on their calls if they are also inspectors that's why I I can't understand why why they allow installers to be inspectors but that's another story in itself I know yeah that's actually a good point yeah installers should not be inspectors they should be independent third parties so the next one is the is knicknacks Bakery Melissa home Brion and South Hadley permit to operate food establishment ping well this one uh is the girl that has a um bakery in South Hadley and what she wants to do is bring her cookies to The Wine House and they have a setup on their counter and she leaves the cookies there so um I had talked to Lynn about it she wasn't really a mobile food because she wasn't you know but Lynn thought maybe the catering one because she goes she brings the cookies so that's why so she has approved Kitchen in in the town of South Hy is that correct yes she's got her licenses uh yeah Serve Safe uh allergen and she uh has a town of South Hadley food establishment license at her home to do um to do her baked goods residential it's a residential kitchen yeah this is the one we talked about because it turns out that these are her these are hers they never they never end up that Jim try buys them from her as a supplier this she's she owns these right out to the time that the enduser eats them so that means she's actually selling food and then I don't know what her agre is with him I honestly she just told me she brings them leaves them on his counter and then comes back the next week so I don't know if he's giving her a certain amount or if yeah I don't know which way that works with her but so so what this would allow her to do if she owns them it allows him to sell those things for her the other way to do it he's got a food service establishment and as long as this is a certified Tien then he could be buying them from her and reselling so so dick the question is who's responsible if somebody gets sick according to this she's the one selling so she's responsible right that's she have or does she need a uh common vict license yes you would need to do that huh yeah she yes like she would probably need to get the common vict from uh the select board yeah and didn't we say all third party products have to have a complete listing of ingredients posted right yes we yeah she labels all her she labels all of her food yes oh okay so it has a full list of ingredients she has a label and that's why and Lynn would go check that out at The Wine House um but yes she she has uh labels with the ingredients and everything is what she stated good so this means that well we're opening this up we're we're signing off saying SE can operate a food establishment in a catering business that's what we're approving this for and that's not I understand why you did this colen and we said that that she had the she had to do this if that's the way Jim was going to run his business but boys what what we're giving her permission to do is a huge amount more than what she's proposing to do well through her kitchen through her kitchen South cley it's a residential kitchen so she's limited to those items that she can do out of a residential what not tipic but what we're doing here is we're not saying that that's the only place that can come from we're telling her EUR allay to run a catering business in town why don't we qualify it for for such and such products only I could support that you could you could yeah it's actually a good idea to limit the scope of the practice Yeah Yeah to to to single service type cookies only that's all for bit Goods good yeah yeah baked goods are you going to also say that it's it's only at The Wine House that that's what this is we actually give her what she's asked for a permit to sell baked goods at the wine housee yes yes so we just modify and we can give it to her with just modify this we we can approve it with those modifications is that doesn't have to wait say B bake Goods only at wine housee only it gives her exactly what she asked for yeah that's Crystal Clear yep okay so that's what we'll do okay the next one is oh here this is the union mark this is Union Mark so we've got we've got three licenses I think a license to sell retail food a a license to sell milk and cream and then a tobacco permit do [Music] we uh this one we've got we've got a letter from the state saying that he has been decertified and he is not a public water supply so this this says when when Lynn goes in to inspect this he can't be selling anything that involved water coming from his wealth going to the public dick is it the same operator Ali is a different guy it's a different guy these are new new people so is it operating under the union Mart Corporation yeah it says three har grany limited liability Corporation doing business as Union Mark so so here's the question are the fines and penalties that we levied last year still in force or are they waved have they are they all paid col they were paid everything he was yeah he was he was good with us yeah okay yep he did pay everything okay so are we okay with the three things subject to LY going in and and making sure that that the the food part is safe and and uh there's no water being consumed by the public um is this property been cleared by the building inspector uh there was a fire in the upstairs apartment I don't know if the building is um up to par as far as um whatever damage oh yeah they didn't they have a rodent they had a rodent issue didn't they rodent tissue fire and there's also uh been a neighborhood complaint about um Breakout on the uh SAS really I don't know how much of the place is ready to go right now it's my question wow how long's it how long's it been bacing um for well what January yeah probably month January yeah I'd say around January because what we knew his yeah so do we need a uh the title five reinspection uh in fact the building probably was sold 90 days in I think building was sold they needed Title Five well I don't know if the building was sold or if it's just the um the business that was sold I think it's someone else who owns the building I think with a a comment that you just made Lee we about the septic system in SAS it seems it would seem reasonable for us to say this thing is it has been shut down we should be getting a statement from the building inspector saying it's suitable for this use and the title we can order a Title Five inspection to be done and we could order the Title Five inspection to be done it seems reasonable at this point in time especially with the um vacancy of the building [Music] for that length of time with with a suspision that that the type that there was an sas issue and if you look at if you look at that property I'm going to guess the water table is at about 18 inches there yeah that's probably about right B you're you're sitting there quietly oh no I'm just checking something on the computer here no I'm just listening to you guys so with our with our history on this building it certainly seems like it's reasonable for the the building inspector to certify that the that the building is safe for for this intended Youth and occupancy and that we're ordering a tital 5 inspection be done at the septic system do they have enough room to replace the leech field elsewhere or are they gonna I don't know yeah my guess is are going to probably have to hog out what's there and replace it in in in in its current location but that's up for the that's their problem I guess yeah but it it looks like what's happening is you get you know the by having a different owner on the building you get the operation going with escaping the escaping the the fact that it might be damaging the environment yeah there just a there's just you know a couple of potential uh serious questions that are being not over look but uh push to the back burner here which I think um at least we should get some help from the building inspector yeah uh to make sure that we're not just telling someone go ahead and open uh with some potential uh serious violations that may or may not have ever been addressed from the past the other thing is we know that that that the past couple owners have not been friendly to our community in terms of protecting our children from smoking or they just haven't been and they haven't they haven't readily complied with the finds that they had either so that that whether the operation I know this is a new owner but the operation seems to be saying see I can't afford to run this properly there's not either not enough money or they choose not to do it but it's it's I think you're right that if the building isn't safe we should do it and if it's not sound environmentally this is the time to to go after the the solution so is that what is that what the three of us are saying that that we want a a Title Five done on the septic system and uh we also want the the building inspector to certify that it the building is safe for its intended use which is a a dwelling unit and the the store is that correct was there an allegation that the system was leeching out of the ground at one point that's what Lee said yes that's correct Lee who did you hear that from um several of the patrons that went there on a regular basis um made note that um on warm days there was a section of um a septic like odor in the air and um some people had claimed that there was uh some breakout on the side of the uh system in the back okay Colin do you do you have their pumping records um I'll have to check my file to see if there are any the other thing is we know from our experience the water table in that area is really hot yeah but we should be collecting pumping records so we should have a record of the historical pump maybe they haven't pumped the thing in 10 years who knows but if that's the case yeah if that's the case let's have them do a Title Five that makes sense well that's what I think we do you just do it so they are doing it uh due to it being vacant for six months for the last six months for my letter yeah and and the the fact that it's been vacant for six months and our experien is that it's got a very high water table in the area uh since since the complaints may not be documented I'm not sure we want to say that yeah yeah that's correct the complaints are here sayfe like you say it's very likely then for you're saying the system is in the water table not even very very light an inch above it it's in the water table okay yeah it's reasonable to look around that all the other systems that have been repaired are all up elevated okay so we're not we're not approving any of these license okay okay so the next one H the on our list 173 these are for Title Five inspection 173 Bachelor Street David Barry needs further evaluation at the last meeting we went through all of all of that and this is just David saying we said that everybody agreed that the the septic tank was going to be replaced the SAS was going to be replaced the well was going to be tested and it was going to continue to be tested for two years now what are we going to say every six months well actually that's not part of this this is just accepting the the title five are we going to accept that title five I I haven't reviewed it dick I can't even comment on it I have not looked at it well we we spent a a whole bunch of time on the oh on on the new title five that's okay we can wait until colen could you just carry that to the next meeting because it really yes it doesn't matter because they're doing something they've got to do it a per test and they're going to design the system so that that doesn't what the title five says doesn't really matter the next one is 33 Green Meadow Lane and it was a there's a a Title Five that I was I was cornered and I was told actually it's by Greg Everson and and Neil Jackson that Lee was out on this particular test and they have it's again a shallow well uh a leak field that but it looks like I think the the well is far enough away but the they've had a tank and I was told a tank that's in lousy condition with a liquid level right up to the outlet of the tank a debox that's dry uh with h dirt on the bottom of it and a Lee field that that was dry hadn't been been used and the house hasn't been used since the 1 of June and I said well we've got a reg and Lee says you know this is going to have to be looked at in between three months and six months from now after the reoccupancy look at the SAS again and replace the the tank it's small tank and the debox is no good you have to replace that and I then they I said well let's look and they said oh there's a low spot in between the the tank and the debox for the ho and I said well they said well what are you what are you thinking about what do you think the board of health is going to say I said well I think we're going to talk about it but but I said you're you've only been not used for 45 days so it doesn't fit our 90day use and you're the septic tanks all the way up to the top so I said it's probably reasonable Board of Health is liable to say you know what if you got a a hole in the bottom of a pipe and you've got a a debox it's just missing a bottom it's reasonable to assume that if the house has been used full blast 45 days from ago it's probably reasonable to assume that that you don't have to you don't have to reinspect but you you will have to test the water for sure I said that's what I think the board's going to talk about then I read the title five the title five said well the tank is almost up to the outlet so we're back to Lind drive again that you don't have any idea so that the house hasn't been used for a month and a half the tank isn't up to the outlet the distribution box doesn't have any liquid in it and there's no sign that the Lee Fields been used recently I said you know that's exactly the same as L Drive how can you possibly know that the leak Fields any good if there you don't the water's never been up to the top of the tank so so the T the outlet the outlet level is below the invert leaving the tank correct the the tank level is below the invert leaving the tank okay by how many inches doesn't say he he used the term about or somewhat well is it above is it above or below the invert below and when I it is below okay because if it was above it was above that would signify there's an obstruction somewhere in the system between the tank and the debox that's right so below indicates there's a leaking tank the Tank's leaking so I said that I said both Neil and Greg a Tex saying you know you guys I just want to correct something you guys told me the liquid level in the tank was up to the the right level and I just read your title five your title five says it's not I said that's not the question you asked me you didn't give me the right answer the right data and so I absolutely think that the Board of Health it's reasonable I said to assume that the board of health is going to say you can't tell anything about that leadership that's right and so and then Greg once again got back and he says oh no he says what I write down is what counts not what I say so when did you talk to him dick uh I think it was last Thursday at a there was a perk test for new construction so you s so you saw him in New in person I saw him in well I saw him in person when he asked me the question and then he gave me a bunch of grief about saying you know the Board of Health and gramby is hard to do business with they make up their mind what they want to do they tell you one thing in the field and then when it comes time to do something else you know back it up they don't go along with it I can't do business anytime with the Board of Health you're so hard to do business with he said that to you in person that's what said and I said you know what Greg what you're saying is what one out of 50 times the three members of the Board of Health asked to talk about it the rest of the 50 times you know exactly what it is and I said the the reason you have three members of the board so we can talk about this and use our expertise to come up with it but then when I went back and said yeah and then you don't tell me what really was your you ask me a question but you give me the wrong data and then you get an answer to to substantiate your complaint and then then he says well I guess that's what Lee said anyway so it's okay so so we just have to be careful but it goes back to again to the same the same thing that that that it's okay they don't feel bad about signing their name saying I'm going to sign something and and surprise and and Neil actually told me said you know the new owner is supposed to understand what's going on it's not up us we follow the rules it's you know fire beware that's why they hire people is the people who do know because they're not aware how does this a person coming from Springfield or hoolo that's only had sewers how do they possibly know what they have to watch out well it's funny they say that because that morning the realtor suggested to Greg that since it was an old system and there was some problems that were unknown she was open to discussion about replacing the entire system right then and there and go into a uh repair perk with Neil presant but who is Greg who is Greg employed by for this project the owner the realtor or some other party I I don't I do not know I don't know because clearly I'm sure he's under influence of some party by some party I've got this this feeling that that's not the case with Greg I I really think that Greg looked at the words that are written not the intent the word and that when he says I look out on that grass and there's nothing on the surface boom it's not a fail it's a pass because there's nothing on the surface but that he has no no compunction about saying yeah but if it was used it might be no good but he says Nope the rule says when I look there is there anything that surfice and I could put no he's being he's being coached by an attorney that's something an attorney would tell someone to say well I pointed out that's you know when I said you want to see how how happen and I won't give I won't give the two people that are involved but it happens that I know that that what I'm telling you is the absolute Tru truth this person bought a house in gramby the real estate agent told the and the person that bought the house was from the city and the person was smart enough to be talking about SE fixes and the real estate agent said I want you to know this house just had a tital five certified repair so the a certified repair and they the person said I'm set okay we got in the house the house wasn't used by it was you I don't know how many people were I don't I don't I think many people use but the new owner had a couple kids the system failed right away and it went back to the real estate agent and said you told me this you got a Title Five system and the person the real estate agent said no I didn't you look at what's written what's written says it's a Title 5 certified repair they just replaced the septic tank and that was according to Title Five the rest of system wasn't repaired and that's up to you to know that and I told both Neil and and re said you know and I don't know that I told I told Neil I don't know that I told I said you know what happens is when that stuff H happens and someone takes that those real estate agents to court you'll see a jury is going to tag them because they know that an unknowing person doesn't have any idea that they've misled them into thinking they have a good septic system dick that's an inherent problem with the Title Five inspection protocol someone could be running a system with two people in the house using a 100 gallons a day for 20 years it could be performing perfectly they sell the house six people move into the house three-bedroom six people people could be moving into the house running a heck of a lot more water and the thing fails in a jiffy under that circumstances who's at fault that's the question oh that's why that's why you have to have the the Board of Health be involved and say you know what we look that that uh quite frankly one of those inspectors argued with us while before you were back on the board on a system that was on New llo Road built and it had for a leite field it had either one or two pieces of clay pipe that was it that's the whole lead Feld and that inspector said this is a path it doesn't it doesn't meet any of the failures no sweat it's a pack yeah and say boy when it's growly grossly undiz fact that who knows that it the system could have been taken away who knows but but but that person also was arguing saying who are you to say that that's no good so so anyway again that's there's several flaws to the Title Five inspection protocol and that's certainly one of them yeah that's right so so anyway so that we've got that so what are we doing on that one are we saying that that where Greg is saying pen doesn't Greg call this one a pass no he doesn't conditional pass conditional pass he just wants to replace the he just wants to replace the the septic t now and debucks so on this one do we say that we're going to require bill this is one that's three bedrooms and a half acre lot with a with a shallow well is this to be consistent do we say that that this one needs three inspections three to six months after after occupancy and it needs water testing of the well for cow well for nitrate yeah yes both both Criterion yes that's that what you see too yes I would agree so in addition to the replacement of the the tank and the debox require uh inspection inspection reinspection of the SAS three to six months after reoccupancy and water testing I guess that should be in reality that should be the same three to six months or do you do it now do you do do it now or or say it's got to be done now and every six months for the first two years after reoccupancy yeah I do it now create more data you have a you have an earlier Benchmark that makes sense yeah so now plus every six months for two years after reoccupancy every six months for two years after occupancy and of course D now the thing is who's going to be doing the testing you need an independent third party to do the testing I guess our best thing is at least to get it yeah okay it's done at all you'd hope that the the new per coming in he's saying I'm going to test it because I don't want to get sick with my own well that's right yeah yeah they have a vested interest in following proper protocol that's right what what do they have to test for anything in particular or just regular we're actually looking for nitrogen and nitrates is that right Phil yeah yeah and coliform and and FAL coliform as well eoli well that's true so bacterial contamination and and uh nitrogen and nitrate yeah okay okay we do have another another question so we dealt with jacn circle we've got uh we've got a a request for a septic permit extension on Carver Street lot a now this was the I'm looking back a long long time ago this this is a it was the burx property and now it's over or was been overly I think on the right side after uh what are the Estates that go up that are going in the Rocks over there on the left Hill oh oh Jean galoa no this one is up up on oh oh oh Ridge up above okay we got we've got a lot been perked a couple times uh it's got a an old per colen it's got a you looked it up it's got a a perk that could be I think it could be redone to get the eight years but it it title5 permit is is running out in o over the the people are asking for the one-year extension on the on the construction permit so if we if we look at the situation we we don't fit into what what title five says and that the system hasn't been started and that it just needs the the year to to finish it off so it doesn't fit in that it does fit in that they're asking for the extension before the time runs out uh what Colleen was asked is can we give the extension because they don't have a building permit yet so so if if you look at where where we are uh we have extended a couple in the past that had building permits that they were uh one of them the system was in fact and they were they were both late and when they asked but they were both in a spot that the systems were in fact going to be installed the building permits were in place that everything was ready in fact one of them the house was already so there is a a spot that the the different things actually can happen one is there is a valid permit to install a septic system so someone could install the SE system or start to install it m and before it runs out in October and you could get it all the way done before October the next one would be that you could start to install it now and come in and say ah I didn't finish could you please extend the permit to give it to that one year extension to the next October there's another that they could do is they could use the out of season per provision and actually get a new permit that would be valid for three more years subject to going in in March and April and doing a deep test the other is they could take the permit that they have go to the building inspector and say that we'd like to we'd like to get a building permit but by the time the Board of Health ends up having to sign off on the permit the the building permit the septic per perit is going to be ready to run out and so we still end up with something saying see if this permit runs out before you put the system in you're you can't install the system you're going to end up needing the new permit to install the permit I just installs the system so what do we what do we tell this this person who wants unextended you could you could be saying we understand with the with the the way we kind of we're stretching it out Beyond saying we understand that you couldn't get your building work done because of the money situation and delivery and stuff that on the other houses we did that but the houses were clear there was there were building permits there was a house there were things this is this is different there is no building so do you and if you extend it it can only be extended to a year period building permit is at a 24 month um opportunity I don't know what that is it's got to be 12 anyway but yeah so it's confusing to me that they want another year on it if they're not P pulling a building permit to make something happen and the reality of the building process is is at another it's not my money but another $600 or so for a couple deole tests and a witness um in the scope of new home construction um is not going to be much to think about yeah is that LE in taking it a step further if you grant the permit extension this person could just sell us the lot and say hey I got a permit that's good for a year from now next person gets the lck and they're they're screwed because we gave a permit extension when we shouldn't have given a permit extent that that's what I'm thinking that's what I'm thinking is going to happen dick this sounds like a house flip situation to me whether it is or not the situation could be that that's what ends up having to happen the person could not get along they could there any number of things that happened that were were in a spot that that uh the right the right way to do this thing is to go back to the the engineer and say okay I'm gonna I really need the actually actually there is a way the for that the owner to deal with it on the up and up and that's to to to use the use the out of season perk test provision that we have that says he goes to the he goes to the building inspector gets his building permit and if he chooses to build it he can he can actually build it he can get his permit he just can't put the septic system in until he he deals with getting the new permit and then he passes on if he wants to sell it he can sell it he's got a three-year permit and that's and it it works so that if the if the person is doing exactly what they want to do what they're telling us that they telling that they're doing the person could could go to the could get his building he could get his building permit and he gets his building permit but he just won't get a new septic permit until he he well he would have to get a new septic permit before it goes in yeah that that takes it to the level of commitment yeah obviously or or he could take the take the permit that he has go to the building you know building inspector get his building permit get the whole thing going get everything up and running with get his house and you know three quarters built or whatever and then come to us and say hey look it I really did I built this house I did everything now I just I just need the permit extended for the the year to finish it up and then you could extend the permit but the house would be all built and and it wouldn't be a system of of being worried about flipping or selling something that that doesn't exist you could that could work too so it would be the owner that has to decide how they want to do it he's I think he's listening at Nicholas are you are you are you on the meeting yes how you doing good how are you are sorry I joined earlier and then I uh just joined back in so I'm actually the new owner of the property we closed um the first week of July so I do plan on going all the way building a house there uh but my engineer Neil Jackson told me to file for an extension that way I can get my building permit and everything should be pretty good to go and if the time frame is correct hopefully the house should be finished right around July of next year um if not June that's kind of what our time frame is hoping for uh so he just said file an extension uh with the Board of Health to make sure that I can um you know what you already have on file with the previous owner if we can extend that as it's already been approved and you know it's as easy as getting the building permit after that yeah what what happens is this the code said we were I think you probably missed the conversation the code says for the extension that the building the septic construction permit lasts for three years you can extend it for up to a year if you ask for the extension before the permit runs out which you are asking and the reason it's extended is because you just needed some extra time that it's already well under construction and it you just can't finish it so in our case it's not under construction uh there are there are a couple things that that you can do is you colen looked up that when the per test was done we've got a we've got a regulation that says the the perest was good for four years but after that you can go in and and dig whole deple and everything if everything is the same then you can extend the per test for another couple years for up to a total of eight years from the original perk test okay and then you can use that to ask for submit a new design which if nothing else Chang the old design could be resubmitted for a new permit so so at this instant you could you actually could ask for a new design to get a new three-year permit you could do you could do that however you would have to do these defs and margination so you could do that okay you could go with the the permit that you have right now and go to the building inspector and get a building permit yep you could actually then if you actually started the house and started the system then you could come before the end of October or close whatever the at some point kind of soon as before the end of the year you could come back to the board and say you know look at I did do this I I started on this system and I just I just can't finish it I need my that extension at which point the board could say oh yeah we're actually giving an extension that that you actually did start to construct that thing and you need a little more time to do um but what we're concerned with is asking for the extension without a permit without a house without anything that you could easily say you know what I couldn't get the loan and we don't know that you would do this but if you say even though I just closed on it in reality I just lost my job or I can't get a loan to build a house now I've got a purp test with an extension that doesn't meet what not a purpose on a Ro design a construction for the setic design that's extended that's not been done according to code and you then sell it to the next person with a valid per valid design and in reality we've given something that we shouldn't have done that the code said we shouldn't have done that so from from your stand point the the you you can move forward with what some of the stuff that you have and come back to us and say see I really did I built this I got my permit I did this this thing and and now I'm asking for an extension the other that you can do is we've had a provision that says if you ask for a new permit a new three-year permit we would rant that it's it's done we call it an out of season per it's not done in March and April the water table is not done in March and April that you could actually get that new three-year permit get us to approve the threee permit you could still be taking your old permit and move forward and be working with the building inspector but the new permit would say the Board of Health will sign off on this it doesn't matter if you take three years to build it you take three years to build it but in the month of March and April you have to go in and dig a couple holes to make sure that the soil's the same that they haven't dug up your whole lot and change everything around that the water table is the same and then that would go for for three years okay so that's that's pretty good so you would recommend just to verify that I um resubmit we plan on using the same septic plan that um yall do have on file uh you know the the proposed building matches and reflects what we plan on building so can I just resubmit that same plan underneath my name you know pay whatever it is um for the three years if that makes sense I think it's I think it's what $200 or something like that for the per yeah I don't you can't it has to be an engineer that does that okay so if there when I told Colleen that when she said what would what would be the smartest way the easiest way to get this thing done given your given what I where I think you are the smartest thing to do is would be to to go ahead and start your building permit process just start thing okay yeah so the the more as part of that process some place down the road the building inspector is going to have the Board of Health have to sign off on the well in the septic system so that that'll be coming after before you actually get the permit in hand I would at the same time be going to whatever whether you're dealing with Neil or whoever whoever would be the easiest person I actually I think the person that I don't I think it was H not hun no it wasn't it was Sherman and Frederick did the Sherman and original design and then I'm Neil as kind of like a coach this is my first house I'm building this is my first anything so this is whatever you tell me I don't I have no clue we're learning as that makes sense I don't know you're going to get in trouble for because Sherman and Frederick sold their company so I don't know where you're getting into a bind but I do know that Sherman and Frederick were so busy at the time to do the perk test that Shan Associates did the actual perk test got and they happened to be they they happened to work with Neil Jackson closely so I don't know what where you're going there but the but what it would be is is a different engineer would ask for a new permit we would approve the permit subject to you being called that if the water table is wrong you could have to raise the level of the system we don't know what you're going to find in March and April but that process allows you to have something that the Board of Health signs off on saying you can go all the way through with building your whole house except you can't put the septic system in until you dig two deols in March and April okay so that sounds that sounds pretty good to me that sounds nice and fair um so you know proceeding for it I just want to make sure I got all my eggs in a basket here proceeding for it I don't want to step on anybody's toes or do anything wrong um so you won't step on anybody's toes that'll be we got tough home I appreciate it so now I should be going you know my next step should be going to the building inspector showing him the Board of Health meeting that we're speaking today um saying you know I can get approval once we do those tests in um April and I'm sorry not a yeah May March and April March and a March and April so so just to help you out there's a brand new building inspector who's never who's never dealt with this before what what you're G to end up his his back is going to be covered because the Board of Health is gonna have to sign off on the well in the subject Sy that covers his okay so so that that's going to be a piece of paper that comes along after he he goes through his stuff saying okay you've got a safe design you've got so so what what you you would be well off doing if the if in fact you've chosen an engineer or a sanitarian or whatever to have the they understand this process is to have them get in touch with me and say let's make sure that all everybody's docks are in line this is what what we're trying to do because of the time frame that we've got we're trying to get the new permit done get it in set in place so you've got the three years to to get that done and just just make sure it it goes smoothly and the issue especially if if it's a new engineer that's going to submit the the design figure out how that's going to be easily transferred because you don't want to pay for a whole new design when something when the design is okay if it may be that you just have to go to the sermon for the for the submitt of the permit it may be go so the person who completed the design has to submit it to grany yeah gotta yeah so so that may be so that may be making a call to Sherman and Frederick and say hey these guys want a new application okay and they and the Sturman and Frederick the the the perk test validity is a Grandy time frame it's not a States time frame so Thurman and Frederick may say nothing is changed we're happy with the perk test we'll just give you a new application for a and say you can have our our somebody already paid that hopefully someone paid for that design so yes they did that it's that they're not in the spot that say baloney and we've been waiting for you to finally get the guy that owns this lot to pay for this design so hopefully that didn't happen and they just said yeah we'll give you a new cover sheet and you'll be home free okay yeah that sounds good so sounds like my next step should be to go I just want to verify I'm getting the next step I'm taking it one step at a time so go to the building inspector let him know that we spoke you know kind of how we leave and then hopefully he should be able to issue me a building permit we can start pretty quickly and then after that you know come March and April we dig the deol and we verify that everything's still the same and then we can get the septic system installed after that yeah some place in here you're going to be looking at the at the end of October you will no longer have a valid disposal works construction that will be dead Okay so some play through here you need to be getting a new disposal works construction permit application okay okay that makes sense that all right it's all clicking now I appreciate you explaining this all to me all right so yeah I think um I think that all sounds pretty good to me so I can proceed to go on with the building permit and before October 26 or something like that um just you know come back to the Board of Health and ask for and have Sherman and Frederick submit me a new design or not a new design I'm sorry a new permit that's what if if life were horrific for you that would be it and then the Board of Health would be telling them hey guys we're not GNA we'll sign off on this thing with your design is fine but we're going to have to dig some new holes that they actually can't put in the system until after that but you we'll sign off on the building permit we'll get so that you know the some place along the line I'm almost positive that the uh build building inspector is going to make you put a well the well is already um installed on the land what is okay and I I'm working on well tests uh we did a well test but it came back with some chloroform um so the previous owners actually went for a building permit and the lead was so high that the Board of Health said no you know you can't or something like that you have to get filtration and I retested the well two years later after the previous owners did and everything came back great we're just treating some chloroform uh which should be coming back in the next couple days you don't have to treat that anyways because that's contamination from the surface okay well that works I guess I'm one step ahead then yeah so so anyway I'm October will either be submitting a new permit or will be asking for an extension after the building permit has been completed yeah so go you just need to be yeah go be working with the inspector right now okay and someplace down the road you're going to get a form that the Board of Health has to sign off on for the well and the septics okay that all sounds like a great plan I appreciate your time tonight thank you so much okay okay good night thank you you as well dick what we should do for future references you should take your Criterion make a decision tree of this put it on the website so people can look at it themselves because trying to convey that information is a very lengthy and and arduous process and it took half an hour of our time yeah so just give them a decision tree and let them filter through it themselves yeah yeah and as a as a point out that that is really says that particular explanation didn't have to be at a board of health meeting you know it it didn't have to occupy you and Lee or whatever it easily could have been a a little explanation on the side that yeah that's fine no worries very good we' got so we've got the the Board of Health regulations whenever it's 9:30 so that's not happening tonight colen did you in terms of Dollar General that maybe you can give us a quickie report you you said that Tyler Avery is still in charge of the project were you able to get through to Tyler at all no but I called and left him a message I sent him an email and then I said well I'm going to call the um the district manager because God knows who who I would talk to at corporate when they have so many people for whatever whatever so I said I went to the district manager who I've called before and um and he's always cooperative and he reached out to the um their maintenance people whatever um that handle these things and they told him that Tyler Avery was still in charge of this project he was the one that was still involved or in charge of it and I said listen we've been a we haven't been able to contact him or get anything from him for a year or longer and um he said well I'm going to tell them to tell him to contact you so I haven't heard anything yet um but he did say he was going to tell his maintenance people to um get in touch with him and to contact us okay thank you so Lee and and Bill what what do we do to to try to get this to happen like I said last meeting the only Hammer we have is is the linkage of the of their vit and their other permits uh we have to tie those permits to to this process that's the only Hammer we have otherwise going we're going to go to court and spend a pile of taxpayer money maybe one more call back to your Regional person telling that you can talk to and tell them that Tyler isn't getting back to you you're trying to get in touch with him and he won't get p and that the board is going to have to start going after shutting down your ability to to sell stuff in the town and that it's our only you know leverage that we have right now we don't want to do it but that we will do it that's right and the um tobacco licenses are expiring at the end of September because we're starting on that new you know so that uh renewal will be going out in you can tell that that's first one that we'll we'll act on is will'll the board will will talk about resending that not renewing that license y all right that will get some action are we allowed to do that uh from a perspective we may not be but at least if colen says that that's what we're planning to do if they won't talk to us then that's true we haven't we haven't said we're doing anything it's what we plan to do it's the it's part of the negotiating process right it's not it's this is you know this is like owning an atomic bomb if you atomic bomb you fail that's right you never want to use to blow up the bomb right what's crazy about this is that I think there's a solution at hand here and it and we just have to get it done but it's called y it's called gamesmanship right now yes yeah yeah so yeah unfortunately so I'm sure and nobody as it turns out we're actually trying to come up with a solution that does work that's reasonable and that it's one that that's that's the right way to do it and not have the court do it but so if you do that trying to do for but in this case if we tell them that we really want to work to get the solution but Tyler won't do it and the only thing that the board has got for a cool is to start going after licenses and we're going to start looking at the the the soonest one that's going to be up is the smoking one and that's what we're going to go after yeah that's the only thing corporate's going to understand is income that's it yeah that's right yep so with that we are at 9:30 I think it's time that we stop colen said bill that that she was told that there was a wire on fery Hill that was smoking today oh that's what it was oh but it must have been between my house and your house CU I yeah because we're down from 9:30 to about 11:30 we're down for two hours yeah oh that's what happened okay but it came on something yeah something must have happened because I I went to a grave site a burial yeah and the the person the the minister there was was uh Audrey Walker who I think is Audrey Gala yes yes and and she said she had a little laptop and said I couldn't work on my little homy because I couldn't print it I didn't have any electricity so I'm guessing George's house didn't have electricity either yeah yeah I looked on the National Grid outage map and from your house stick down to my house we had supposedly they had 31 customers without power so it's very limited very very limited so anyway then let's all go I'd say go home but we're home already okay thank you again everyone all the best good night thank you good night everybody bye thank you yeah bye thank