[Music] all right so it's now 5:36 I will call the select board U meeting for July 8 2024 to order um if you could join me by standing for the pl of Allegiance please States so Mr ston will not be joining us uh tonight so just want to as well we do have a public hearing that was scheduled for 5:31 We Are a little late due to some technical difficulties but they're up and running now so I will open the public hearing this is to um Ram commission to Massachusetts electric company doing business as National Grid they are requesting permission to locate HS wires and fixtures including the necessary sustaining and protecting fixtures along and across the following public way Morgan Street National Grid to install three Soo polls on Morgan Street beginning at a point approximately 1,389 ft south of the central line at the intersection of new llo road and continuing approximately 227 ft in a southernly direction National Grid proposes to install three solely owned Poes on Morgan Street to provide service to a new home in gram events location approximately is shown on the plan that is attached wherefore it prays that after due notice and hearing as provided by law it be granted a location for the for and permission to erect and maintain P wires together with such dating and protecting fixtures as it may find necessary said polls to be erected substantially in accordance with the plan filed here within marked Morgan Street gry mass number 30967 one13 also for permission to lay and maintain underground laterals cables and wires in the above or intersection ing public ways for the purpose of making connections with such polls and buildings as each of said petitioners may desire for Distributing purposes your petitioner agrees to reserve space for one crossarm at a suitable point on each of said polls for the fire police Telephone and Telegraph signal wires belong to the municipality and used by exclus exclusively for municipal purposes so now naal grid is not here um do I have anyone here with questions for the Morgan Street plls do not so I will close the no any opponents you just asked if there were proponents now you're going to ask are there opponents are there up all right so I will close the public hearing part of this um and I will open up to the rest of the board any questions no questions it's a new building lot I think they have all the information here it's three polls as I understand it yeah yeah yep I have no further questions all right so I will entertain a motion to approve the three o polls I make a motion to approve National Grid to install three s o polls on Morgan Street second that motion any further discussion all in favor I all right so actually hold on I did this last time too we didn't sign it SP stre all right so Chris our next appointment's at 5:45 it's 5:41 do we have citizen participation you have anything for us Chris yeah hold on um I have two due frame rentals uh the first one is for July 13 2024 all right arriving 11:00 a.m. departing 4:30 p.m. maximum number of people is 25 it is a graduation party and the area being requested is small Pavilion number three Kendall Street side near the bridge the second one is for June 29th 2024 arriving 11:00 a.m. departing 5:00 p.m. maximum number of people is 50 it's a graduation birthday party is for the large Pavilion gazebo and a large field and I know the only correspondence we had this week was from compa no another panel disc Contin there was a letter I believe from Miss bruffy yes in there also so just recognizing that you did receive it yeah so thank you and just so uh Dave also knows Comcast we are in negotiations with our contract with them with attorney Augustus um August August and um that was moness right so do you know how much time has left on we are in the 8th month of it St and actually a draft contract has already been sent to pcast with supporting documentation and we're hearing waiting to hear back from them it's only one minute really if it's okay do you have any Heil breakfast I can do something real quick uh old business uh regarding Forge Pond yes we did receive a one-year extension to complete the uh the work so now the all work has to be done by June 30th of 2025 dude um I know the last time we had talked about it um Dave Leonard was adamant that he was going to be able to get it done for June 30th he ran into some help okay so uh he should be up and running and going fairly quickly no can be pil it soon that and then we can we have until then okay so if he's when he's able to he and we can go for the second part of it which would be the construction Fe yes all right and that brings us to 545 so our next appointment is Tim colie from District 2 what good if you can come up here I think um can get your mic as well chair of our water board also thank you very much for coming in this has been um something that we've talked about for a while now on the board sure so I know Miss Leonard sent you a bunch of stuff yeah a bunch of stuff yeah yeah um I think with us it's I don't want to say we'd be almost starting over you know what I mean but engineering wise and everything it would be you pretty much be starting over because it's a completely separate location where we would be coming um our water right now is on Moran Street right at the Town Line we brought a 10-inch water man up there um three years ago right to the Town Line and so that's where we would be taking of on Morgan right at Morgan in Pleasant um where we have water right to there right now yeah no no no not yet I was I gonna say that's not no no these are maps that I did um thank you save one for Glen and I can I have more too if you need more um it just shows different elevations based around uh around the area that we're talking about um obviously this can be changed skewed moved any way you guys want um but if you look at the elevation page there's a the the typ page I gave you I just drove around and I just took a bunch of different elevations um pretty much West Street this whole area that that we're talking about cold Hill area um definitely can't feed cold Hill uh elevation wise where where're I don't know if you guys understand how the how water system works with elevation we use pressure we use the water the head of water pressure to create our pressure at the base of our tank for us so for every 2.31 feet of elevation it gives you one pound of water pressure so the height of on the top of Coal Hill is actually higher than the top of our tank um so we wouldn't be able to push water up there without pumping it um in the past in years past the question has always been whether we would be able to push it and when I say cold Hill I mean the top of cold Hill not at the intersection of pleasant and cold Hill in High Street um you can see where right where Morgan Street ends it says 260 that's the that's the feet we have 58 pounds right there and so to go to 280 it's not even a 10 pound drop for us to go to that 280 ft which is right at the cold Hill High Street intersection so we'd be putting water over that that piece right there somewhere probably around 45 PBS and then it would as it drops back down the pressure would obviously increase again going towards Five Corners um so the corners that whole area down there you can see the elevation marks on there um even even all the way up to Fin's Hill um is we we should technically and again I'm not an engineer um but based on science and math uh we should be able to put you know close to 40 PBS 45 PBS right at um as a static pressure at uh Fin's Hill I had a brief conversation with Chief O'Neal today and also um I reached out to Dave from the highway department to see if he had any you know concerns or thoughts about it and he didn't really seem to have you know too much um too many concerns he actually he said it would be a good thing um I know the fire chief's concern primarily is that area up by fins Hill um with grany graen being across the street and the storage units down the road um so I think that would be really important but getting through across five corners and getting water on this stretch for you guys I think is you know would be a a big step in the right direction um all these areas that I have highlighted in here these these could be phases um this isn't something that would have to happen right away um but I think the main road there from coming down Morgan to Pleasant Crossing through Five Corners um that yellow line on that side we could extend you know I just I wasn't sure how far you guys exactly you were looking for um I kind of figured it was fire protection for the corners and for these buildings that are here now that I know there's been a lot of talk that some people would like to do some stuff but they can't because there's no they'd have to put fire ponds and everything else and it was going to be so costly to do it um just so you guys are aware on the top I did put a to of the of the feet of pipe and it would be if if you were to do everything on this map right now and I got a number from hak water right now they're using $250 a foot installed as an installed price so that project that you're looking at in the yellow right there would be about 3.8 million just a little over that um to do all of that area if you were going to do it all at one time and again if you you can change it however you want um to look at different options and it's $250 a foot is what they said for an installed price what what is that that was H water out of loveo ha yeah sounds right and again that would go out the bid and that wouldn't but just for budgeting purposes they you know that they felt that that should be a safe number um that you wouldn't exceed unless you ran into some really strange things you said it was a 10-inch pipe we have a 10-inch so I would increase and go from a 10 to a 12 inch and I would run I would recommend that you guys do 12inch main lines um and then when you Branch off you would put T's um for the side streets and then you would do a 12 by8 8 inch uh pipe would feed the all the side streets and that's for many different reasons but mainly for flow and Fire protection at that point um you have any questions so would they break this down as you've broken it down if we wanted to go so far it would obviously give us a portional price as we brought it say to fins Hill that would be or are they looking to do or would you look to do tire project all on no that's what I'm I mean you can kind of break it out in terms of cost and do it in like phases I would call it you know ph up I mean to do all this in one year anyways even if you had a even if you had a huge company come in this would be a lot to do in complete in a year I mean you're looking at you know at least probably two to three years worth of work for an outside company here um but I know that there's kind of a little bit of a time crunch with the corners and construction already going on and things happening there now so my suggestion would be uh certainly to come down through the corners get through there and get up and down 202 and and get that established um once the pipe's in the ground it's in the ground they can do whatever they want and finish Paving and and you know but that certainly would be a restriction once that is completed they're not going to want you digging on a brand new pavement so the more a torum that would be put in place when would that happen if we finish that right right as a matter of fact if if I was looking at this right now I might have them just get that like you know have a company come in and get a across in that intersection and get piped north and south and east and west at that intersection and out of their scope of work and then that's all set you know what I mean like yeah so then and then they could continue off um because it doesn't matter which way they run the pipe if they run it from here to us or from us to you it's not going to make a difference and then I I just you know again this is more informational it's a first meeting I had no idea which direction you guys were you know going to try to go with you know eventually would you guys take over the pipe and and have a have a person working for the DPW that would run you know the gramy and we would wholesale water to you or are you looking for us to fill the pipe and and take care of all the billing in terms of like the and all that kind of stuff I mean there's a lot of other aspects to this that we can you know look into in the future too if it if if we get that far but I think the first thing would be to you know whoever you guys use as an engineer last time probably you know reach out to them um and have them look at what we currently have and and you know see if it would be feasible for you guys to uh to do it I can tell you the price of water means has gone up drastically like everything else since covid so yeah not going to go down we we supp water a few resents from those we do correct no on on Mary lion drive right and you guys build out to them now yeah we I don't think we would keep safe do you go uh pleasantry is in isn't there water Pleasant Street too Pleasant Street we don't have water no it's right to the Town Line and uh our the last two houses in South Hadley have our water but not a housing well actually one of the houses shares a is that that is that first Tre that breathing she shares an address it's she's got 290 Morgan and one Breezy so I don't is this something you guys are going be looking for funding on them to do this or so we did um we did file for the one stop for grow Grant um last year and this year for water down to2 um I don't I don't I think we didn't get it and I can't speak for them because I don't think we've heard back from them yet Chris right I don't think we got it because we didn't do the leg work we have to do the leg work and have everything to present to them first yeah and so this was us trying to move it forward and doing the leg work and trying to figure out how we're going to do it um and I know the last time it was district one they were going to hook up to and come down um so another option we were looking into is District Two because we know it's on Morgan Street already so just trying to see what our different options are we also that option we come down Morgan we can tie and Bo back in in district one which is a good thing because they're right so two Morgan Morgan Street in gramby he's he's referring to so if we went through five corners and you continued down Pleasant Street to Morgan D district one has a line um there that's Capp that I saw when I saw some of the initial plans that they were that's the loop they were going to try to make in case something happened to their line on New llo Road they'd be able to feed water to their District over Morgan Street and then down Pleasant and down down I guess what we're saying is we have the availability of providing water yeah right to guess it's on yeah all those grants that you're referring to there's a the term they use it's called shovel ready um so they what in that's all the grants for us too now they want them shovel ready meaning everything's pretty much done so you're handing in the packet they're looking at it and saying okay put it out the bid and then that's how those grants are coming about so do you know when the intersection was be think a three to four year project between um five corners the End School Street right Chris yeah so I mean it be so four to five years it would be moratorium probably five years out of the R so get stuff rolling in between right they're Paving in sections too might be Paving in sections as they R it up they have the number on the side they we they never came to the board and discussed anything with us they just it's a state highway so they did what they wanted and we're just you're stuck with it so um have that state section be likey we're thinking about water food here is there anything else you can think of do you remember who the the name of the engineer was because she gave me the information but I don't think it had a name of I want to say it was Lincoln white I think I'd have to go back and look at my emails you didn't get a name on of emails she sent you no she just information but not there's probably a name or a number on there um I could actually I could look it up and reach out too I don't I think the easiest thing would probably be a phone call have a quick conversation with them um and you know go from there think Chris skip the engineer call see if it's something but Chris if they come out don't have to pay them to come out more than likely so then now we have to figure out where those funds are going to come from we already had linoln is his name Lin yep was with uh Chapel Engineering Associates you want a number yeah please thank 508 48174 0 he in Char of the project there no he was he he was our he did all our drawings even on this end here we only like that that map that you have it stops at um the corner of um the pizza place here Pizza Palace I mean that can be extended up 202 but like I said The more distance you go I wasn't really sure 100% exactly what you guys were looking for so we just did it that way for now um and and all that can be changed added to was it was it just the drawings that she had sent you yeah all that yep okay that was there yep then she sent the municipal uh preparedness vulnerability grant that you guys filed yeah from 2018 okay and I think I know that the state and the FEDS for infrastructure are are giving out a lot of money with if you have everything in order so like I said the shovel ready and it's like I think that's why your last one probably got kicked back or you haven't heard anything yet but if you get it to that point there's a there's probably a pretty good chance that there's some funding out there available for so depending on the funding that we possibly could get where would you where would you go with this stop there right now farther depending on the it depends on what you put in for if you put in you know for that whole project that whole scope that you have right there at once um and they gave you the money for it you could still do it in sections you wouldn't have to all just do it in one year um but certainly I would come down Morgan go through the intersection and go you know get out of their get out of their scope of work for this job up Pleasant and then you put a cross in the ground at the intersection there and go up to Fin's Hill and come down to like Pizza Palace or wherever I just I just use that as stopping I know that there was some talk and some issues with the bridge that was the one thing Dave mentioned with this river crossing right here from this little Estuary that feeds down yeah um there was a question about crossing the water line on that bridge um and the amount that it was going to cost so in this case you may not have to go across that um when I spoke to uh Chief O'Neal there is a hydron in district one that's less than a thousand feet up the road here that district one would grab as a water supply and we could put a hydron at the end of the water main wherever we chose to stopped at whether it was right at the pizza place or come up a little further and put a hydrant right there and either travel way he has yeah he has a hydrant on both ends I don't think he'll be able to go beyond the pizza place because that's where the last one ended that did they paved from from the paving so that's them okay right so that'll be about the only place you could go to because you're in the moratorium right now probably another two years on at least up to P from here to P pal yeah which means if we rip it up we have Tove it right time save the whole thing whole the whole road yeah they don't want patches they don't want patches unless is Anem but that section from here where the Town Line is two B Be payment right and I I don't think you'd want to get involved with that either because then every time there's a anytime you disturb their moratoriums and even if you repaved it in 6 eight months from now there ends up being a a dip in the road you guys own it you know what I mean they're just going to keep continually going back to you tore the road up before the five years it's usually a great which is why Glenn had said District Two call this way instead of coming this way yeah [Music] I mean that Bridge Crossing we time not it was over it was like I think it was almost $200,000 to cross that section of the bridge though yeah they were going to go above not t over they were gonna hang yeah he was going to do it that way so and again that's all something too if there is the moratorium under Road for a couple more years and you brought the water down to Pizza Palace and it stopped after the mor moratorium was up you would just have to budget for it but then you could do that section the the downside is there would be a valve between our district right now we share nine valves with district one water for emergencies so if he's if he has an issue like a couple weeks ago his transmission line coming in from llo got hit um so we open a valve to feed him he's fed us in the past multiple times during emergencies um so we can feed each other water um so that's what would end up at the Town Line right here so that's it's not super imperative to get in this this stretch here to get water because the fire trucks obviously have um large diameter hose on them makes their own water main essentially above the ground and so we would I I think I don't want to speak for cheap O Meal but I think that being a th feet there and if we had a hyr a Pizza Palace that would be yeah he has enough hose on his truck to actually to to go from one to the other not that you would but he would have that ability if you need question like you break it down this is my name B first time being involved in this okay so we weren't involved in that first project so um our initial meeting which just to see what what could be offered what we could do to find to District 2 y um I know Glenn was part of it but unfortunately was unable to be here tonight so he would have been a little bit more knowledgeable to help us out there but I don't know what your what the plan was back in 2018 when they originally were going to do it because there's not too many houses here so it would be the businesses TI in right yeah we were going to basically use arpa funds in addition to uh some betterment fees because they uh by running a a water line in front of their business it increases the value of their property so you're allowed to take the cost of the project and break it out over the number of buildings that could tie into it and you can pay for it at that point by that method and they can pay up to 20 years you know it's just another mechanism for financing large infrastructure projects that be from taxation so if it was going to be houses that could tie in we would have to figure out how much we would charge the houses for a hookup if they chose to hook up it's a it's based on a calculation yes and CHR because our um businesses in our residential pay the TA same tax rate they would get the same or is it based on square foot is at that point I would want to go back and read the betterment law a little bit better but that is the mechanism you would use the fund typically the charge for a water service going into a house is based on the size the diameter of the service so for instance most residential homes would use a 1in water service um versus a business might have two lines going in they'd have a fire sprinkler and then a domestic water line and so the fire sprinkler there would be a charge for that line and then there would be a charge for the you know based on size again um of the domestic line most businesses on this road would use a one inch for domestic um most people think they need a 3 inch but you don't one inch is or a three in no cuz the fire sprinklers are usually a 6inch line um going in to feed to feed the sprinklers so yeah like our typical residential time on construction it's two it's it's it's $2,000 an inch pretty much is the is the fee so for a one-inch service it's $2,000 um but again with the cost of everything going up if if you do the whole job if we do black top and you know you we obviously figure out man hours and stuff like that a a residential water service now is running about anywhere between eight and $10,000 total cost that's meter that's into the house that's everything and I just did a bill for somebody the other day um I can I can print one up and send it over to you guys or email it um I have your email I can email you over what it would look like just so you can see it and and see the other numbers and what's involved I think that would be helpful we have to do a TT bre or thank you for doing all the um yep the work that you did on this we still have the Aron prf up during meeting so strictly go for answer conversation yes and again I'm sure you guys are going to think of a bunch of questions you know in the next couple days um I know you have my number and my email feel free to reach out if you have any you know questions concerns or or thoughts about things um I know it's early I have a lot of good what I think are good ideas moving forward how do we can get people to to transfer over um because I know that was one of the things the last time a lot of people there was pretty significant cost um to some people and a lot of people are of the mindset I have a well it's working perfectly fine why would I want to switch over to public water and spend I'm not going to spend $10,00 or $8,000 so we got a lot of things in mind that might work um some ideas um that might attract people initially um and draw you know get a good draw to them but those are all things I think we're a little far out for that do you have any more questions da like this now no I don't think so it's information so yeah I think um just looking at start with we're definitely going to have to do it in face I don't think it's something financially that we can do and like you said it's at least a two to threee project with what you've laid out so far um but I think if we concentrate on 202 at least getting those pipes in then we can tie into it later right I think that's something that we definitely should do uh because of the moratorium we put on it when the Project's done yep that's something that I think is of high priority right now so I know um our other board member is here right now so I'd like to um put this on the agenda for next meeting Chris where um the board can discuss different options and I will reach out if they have any question absolutely um Chris I know has you have his number in his email right or I can send it to you it's right on the town py website under District Two water but so you can send it to Glenn if Glenn has any questions there anything to give for our next meeting y it's a lot but I definitely appreciate the work that you put into it to think of those NOC thank you okay thanks all right is 614 um our next appointment is 6:15 do you have anything else uh that you can do quickly Chris real quick accountant position the person who had filed a application with Drew so what I'm going to do is read vertise again on the MMA website and we will advertise in the daily Hampshire Gazette and Hope attract somebody to apply for the position and no reason why they withdrew that just with she just said no longer interested yeah I think we've talked about this before Chris but what is that other website that a lot of people use we don't do it uh LinkedIn or anything like that it's extra money right you have to do a subscription indeed uh indeed was $75 for every applicant that we opened up and that can get kind of expensive when they send anybody who would have an accounting degree not necessarily Municipal experience right so say someone's just a bookkeeper somewhere when they applied they'd send that and we'd have to pay 75 bucks be able to look at that that's expensive you we want more qualified individuals if we're going to start looking at things but and what is the qualifications for the town account because I know they have to have a specialty in municipalities so do what's the the the exact Mass Municipal okay well basically it's uh yeah what's it called yeah it's a specialized accounting system umus the umus accounting yep it's called the uh Uniform Massachusetts accounting system that we look for experience in and we usually try and get them to become a certified governmental accountant and they can do that by going to the ual accountant school for three years and then taking the law and the Practical portions and passing both portions and then they get their certification she said certified governmental accountant and what was that second one passing the law portion the the to get that certification there's two parts the law and then practical and the law is usually the toughest part to best some people can take them three to four times to take it at the end of school all right so it is 6117 so our next appointment is with the International Brotherhood of police officers so there's Jack hi Jack hi there so Jack I know you probably remember me crystal du um and we have our new board member David lebante welcome good to meet you both see you thank you good evening uh my name is Jim baramy I'm the national rep for the uh ibpo Union group here in grany and tonight we're in front of you for a level three grievance hearing um we had started this process um on the one of the handouts that I gave you the number one Mark number one um it has just kind of a little background as to how long this has been going on has been going on since uh April of 24 and we've kind of come through the I'm sorry since November of 23 and then we've come through the process of meeting with the chief and having it denied and then meeting with the town and then getting together with the um with the bargaining committees that negotiated the contract and then um moving on to meeting with you um when we negotiated the contract the town wanted to include the rout tenant's position which is a non-union position into the contract to go into the detail rotation at the time we had one list for details and overtime for all union members the lieutenant was not a union member so he was not in that list so the list rotated whether you took a detail or or an overtime shift every time you took one you would go to the bottom of the list but it was all union members so that was very easy to have one list that rotated through for both overtime and details we negotiated with the town and the town put some benefits into the contract in order to include the lieutenant in that detail list rotation so in the um in one of the handouts that I give you number four you can see I highlighted what was put in there a detailed call list including all full-time part-time officers as well as the lieutenant or other officers not in the bargaining Union so that's what we agreed to was a detailed list including all full-time part-time as well as the lieutenant and or other officers not in the bargaining unit after we negotiated that and it was put into the contract and it was agreed to we realized that with the lieutenant in the detail list and only having one list that the lieutenant was benefiting more and the union members were benefiting less because of the way the town implemented the language that was agreed to so for example if I can just show you real quickly we have a list here of 11 officers and the lieutenant is number six as each officer if number one takes Tak an overtime detail he moves off the list he goes to the bottom if number two takes a detail he moves off the list and goes to the bottom also the lieutenant never moves off the list if the lieutenant takes overtime he doesn't move off the list and go to the bottom he continues to move up the list so with every Union member that takes either a detail or overtime they go to the bottom of the list the lieutenant doesn't go to the bottom of the list when he takes over time he stays at his number and moves up the detail list meaning that the lieutenant is getting a detail quicker than the union members so what we proposed to the town and we thought that this was a uh an easy proposition was that we have two lists one for details with the lieutenant included in it that would rotate through and when you take a detail you go to the bottom of the list and one for overtime which is just union members and as they worked overtime they would go to the bottom of the list this wasn't received well by the town for some reason and we can't figure out why but the the the town would have you believe that the union agreed to having the lieutenant on this one list and they're going to talk about having two lists in the past and going to one list because they had two in the past and went to one but when they went to one it was only union members but when we included the lieutenant onto the list this last time after our negotiation s we now need two lists because we need a detail list with the lieutenant included and an overtime list with just the union members so that it's fair as each one moves through they would all get to move up the list correctly um we didn't see it as being that big a deal um you know we the lieutenant gets the benefit that he or that the town wanted to give to him if we have two lists or we have one list he gets more of a benefit if we keep it as one list which is not what we agreed to the original agreement that we had made would not have passed the union body had they known that the lieutenant was going to be on this one list and not be bumped off as he took overtime or anything like that it just wouldn't have passed we had a hard time getting the body to agree to even what we did agree to but then when it was interpreted differently became an issue so we're hoping that the town will see fit to just have two lists in that handout that I gave you there's I believe it's number let me see what did I do with it I'm sorry at the end of number two in the handout was The Proposal that we sent to the town just asking for the wording to have two separate lists a a list for details and a list for overtime um we had sent that over throughout this process as we were trying to come to an agreement um it doesn't seem like that big a deal I I don't understand why we're we got this far um in the contract I we already talked about handout number four which is the wording that we agreed to handout number three discusss hours of work which discuss how overtime is handed out in the department and there's nothing in here that changed about an overtime list there's nothing in here that talks about the lieutenant getting overtime there's nothing in here it's just how they divvy up their overtime but the town is going to have you believe that we agreed to this one list when in reality what we agreed to was just the lieutenant being part of a detail list one detail list and therefore you would have to have an overtime list also because the lieutenant is not not included in that group The Lieutenant gets overtime sometimes but it's after it goes through the entire Union group if nobody takes it the lieutenant can then take the overtime so there are two different rules sets of rules that govern each of those things and in order for those two sets of rules to work you need two different lists you can't have one list that governs how both of those things work so what we're asking the town to do is just to create two lists one for details that still includes the lieutenant and he would rotate through just like everybody else as he moves up the list and he gets to the top he goes to the bottom just like everybody else station area at this explain that stationary meaning meaning I just put on that list I just put them I put them on there so goes to the bottom no he goes to the bottom after he's worked his detail he goes to the bottom I only put him on there as number six just to show you a list to show you that as as number one takes overtime he moves off the list and the lieutenant moves to number five as number two takes overtime he you know he moves off the list rot it rotates through and the lieutenant eventually gets to the top of the list but the problem is you have two groups a detail list and an overtime list that the patrolman if they take either one they move off that list but the lieutenant doesn't move off that list like he doesn't move if he takes either one if he takes overtime he stays right where he is on that list and he moves but yet the union member if they take overtime they go to the bottom of that list and now the lieutenant moves up faster so that's I mean if you have any other questions please so um I actually do have a question when we went so was we go through through the last time so when we went to you and asked um for the lieutenant to be put in the on the list yes you only had one list at that point correct so that one list is what was put in place and that's what we were ruling on was that one list correct the the AG I'm confused the agreement was one list well there was two lists years ago and then we went to one list but the one list was fine as long as it was only union members because then it didn't matter if you took a detail or overtime you just went to the bottom of the list and you kept rotating through so it didn't make a difference but now that we've put a non-union member on the detail list at the request of the town we need two lists because the lieutenant is only on the detail list in a rotation on the overtime list he's only at the bottom after everybody else goes so there's two different sets of rules for where the lieutenant Falls on on each list and what we're saying is is that during negotiations we believed it was going to be a detailed list which is what the wording says a detail list not a detail overtime list a detail list but when it came out the interpretation by the town was it's one list details and overtimes and the lieutenant just rotates through and that didn't work out for the union that's not that's not the agreement that we made that's not what we agreed to but that's the interpretation of the wording that was written down in the contract we probably should have been thinking of that ahead of time but it wasn't thought of because we believed that it was going to be one way and we believe that this wording that's in the contract says that it is the way we thought it was going to be but then when it started to be interpreted the town interpreted it a different way and that's when we came back together to try and figure it out e questions it's uh I mean I wasn't involved in the original conversation so it's hard for me to deter in exactly what's right and wrong here I mean obviously it's in your contract correct but the two sides are interpreting that exact sentence so it's a misunderstanding exactly when we came back yes when we came back to the town after the original grievance was denied by the chief and then we met together with the with the bargaining group both this town side and our side we admitted that neither side thought about this while we were at the table we both walked out thinking we were getting something that we that we wanted or that we agreed to and then once we were done we realized that the town interpreted it one way and we interpreted it another way when I read that sentence I read it as a detail list meaning one detail list that's it a detail list not a detail SL overtime list you know there's other stuff that governs how overtime is and once again the lieutenant moving through the detail list and not moving through the overtime list clearly states that there's two different definitions of how those two list this would work the lieutenant only gets overtime after everybody denies it on the overtime side and the lieutenant moves up the list through the detail list as each person takes a detail he just moves up like everybody else and that's what we agree to we agreed to those two separate things and afterwards it was brought to our attention that that's not how it was going to be implemented so that's why the grievance was filed since last year in the fall yeah right3 yes so so yeah it hasn't been forever but it's been a long time you know we've been trying to get through this process so we're not we're not saying that that we thought of this in the negotiations and we told them that and that they did it a different way we're saying that neither side thought that it was to be something else and then when we were done and it was written we thought okay we got the wording we wanted and they thought something different and then now we're an impass but we gave the benefit to the lieutenant of being in the detail list but we didn't give the benefit of the lieutenant to get more details than the union members um I don't have any more questions I I understand where you're coming I do want keep the chance as well the members won't he W make time we discussed this call and procedure that we have in this DTS system that fills that fills details and it was discussed on the different tiers within the lists and Zach Gilly and I had a conversation during negotiations and we both beli we were on the same page with yep you can have one list and with with um with details and overtime being filled and there's different tiers and the lieutenant wouldn't the lieutenant is in a different tier for overtime so again he does not move until he's the last one it's kind of the same as when if somebody's forced to stay as far as the union members are concerned they don't get charged either so there's there's some there's there's some things that they don't get charged for either when they're moving on the list if they're forced to stay over then they they um they they remain in place as well so even though all one list yep when over time available it's still as it stated in they contract it goes to all part- timers first then if for straight time and then if they don't take it it then follows the full-time dispatcher for overtime then police overtime then part-time police overtime then part dispat over time right whoever's eligible correct so it goes down that list even though there's one list there's one L correct because he's at a different tier so it's all every everything's in tiers in his system and it allows it to to roll over can you explain the tears a little bit more in that like as you were listing those different different people yeah there's um like part-timers are in one tier um full-tim are in another tier the lieutenants in another tier um and those tiers that is is how the within that tier there's numbers and that's what's rotated and depending on what is being filled the system is smart enough to say it'll who is getting the shift when by the numbers and availability the availability through the the numbers where they are in that tier and that number you don't even choose the system does it correct they we they we input it put it out as what it what what's available and then it goes out to to everybody and they bid on it right they bid on it and depending on where their number is is whether they're awarded it or not depending on how many what it is so it's not solely your decision it's not my decision no I think three or four depending on what what type of ship you're trying to fill or detail or it's the lieutenant so there's four tiers and then Lieutenant's out on his own on the overtime part of it he's within the same tier as the when it comes to dets for I guess what I'm confused on now is that even though there's one list based on the tiered system that you just gave us there's four tiers everyone in all the four tiers gets called first for overtime if nobody takes it then it goes to Lieutenant if you because he like he would be like the fourth tier so tier one is offered tier two is offered tier three is offered and then he's like the fourth tier I'm just using a number on top you have to wait until they all respond or you just no it's out there it's out there they have 15 minutes is it like an app or something it's like an app exactly it's DTS works is what it's called it's an app um it gets put out there but the system is smart enough to know that okay this person's a tier one he would get it before tier two or tier three like put each officer in or each person in as their tear as their tiers correct and then within those tiers they rotate correct depending on whether it was a overtime or detail was the different te there any eligible employee rejected correct didn't take which is that then that in turn is kind of the same as if somebody's forced to stay then they don't get charged either and are the tiers based on excuse me seniority and or part-time full-time is parttime fulltime yes exactly based on the yes so first here for example would be roughly yes just depending on how the it goes by that but yes I'm I can't say for sure that is tier one it's tier something but yes on the availability yes and how it's awarded the comp designed it has all that information so even though you're you're essentially Dowing from what you explained what they ask for they just want to see toist I just no the if if I I sorry didn't can you come up to the mic so yes because if that tiered system is correct then the the tiered system addresses the overtime it doesn't address the details okay so it's just overtime that's addressed under a tiered system and the tiered system is exactly what you said it's part-time then full-time then dispatch then the lieutenant and it runs through that list similar to what it says right there details are a completely separate thing so the discussion that we had or the chief had with one of the union members during negotiations without the rest of us being there um address DTS and how that works which is fine but we're not talking about DTS we're talking about the detail list which is also run by DTS but it's just a simple you're in that line of 1 through 11 and when you take a detail or overtime for the union members you move down in that list on the detail list the single list but the lieutenant never moves from that list when he takes overtime he doesn't move down like the like the union members do he stays where he is so if he's number six and he takes overtime he stays number six but if you're number one and you take overtime what I if you're number one and you take overtime you go to number 11 which is the way it was and that was once again that was fine when it was only union members and everybody was in the same boat but when you put the non-union member in which is what the town asked for and we agreed to we realized that that's not fair that the non-union member never goes to the bottom of the list when he takes overtime but the union member does and we're just trying to correct that and the simple correction for that is just two separate lists the lieutenant still stays on the detail and still moves up through the detail list just like everybody else the difference is is the way we want it the lieutenant doesn't get an extra benefit of every time a union member takes overtime he moves closer to that detail than the rest of the union members do so that make sense okay thank you I would just like to clarify that that was not some off conversation that was direct negotiations that that conversation there was not a private conversation between myself and officer Gilly or anybody else that thr any negotiations okay thank you Chris do you have anything you want to right call attorney cols hi attorney Collins hey there so um I think I completely understand it now okay I don't know I necessarily have any questions for do you have any questions for some input yeah some input would be nice all right but I now fully understand keep keep in mind the name is Collins is not Solomon here so we don't have any great wisdom to solve this problem I'm gonna just turn your the volume up for a minute we can't testing one two three any better y got it no it's right on the table reme they should be up now turn that yours is up but ours is not on the TV so we couldn't hear you oh okay okay Dy one two three okay now we're good okay let's bring you back to a time when the negotiations were uh Jim M was was there so was Chris so was the chief so were several union members clearly I think everything that the the union talked about here on the face of it is correct is that they the town waned to put uh you know have have the lieutenant initation and that was what we've agreed to now and that's what the contract says remember that a grievance is an allegation that somebody's violating the written contract and I think to be Fe of the Union what they're saying is yeah the the contract does say that but that's not really what we expected it to mean and I and I believe that I think in in in fness some of the union members were very well aware of it because they it was talked about during the meeting okay but some of the people you know those people have been replaced I guess some people looked at it later on and said oh my God that we we really didn't know what we're getting into the problem is if it were the other way around if the contract set a certain thing if it's said in there by the way we're going to pay you $1,500 for having a you know a master's degree and it was a mistake we really meant it to be a you know whatever right and the union would win they'd go to arbitration the arbitrator would look at the contract and say that is what it says isn't it okay so in general grievances are interpretations of what the contract says so listening to the union tonight and I've heard this a couple of times already I think in FIS what they're saying is yes we agreed to what the language is in there we didn't Town didn't change the language after it was negotiated they brought it to their membership and I believe okay that they didn't either understand it or explain it well enough to the membership who probably would have had a had a heartache over it if if they really understood what was going on that's a possibility okay in fness to the town the town negotiated the contract it made a proposal the it was discussed not secretly by the chief of one person but but by a couple of people you know who will testify I I assume that yeah this was all talked about in Open session so in any event for right now we're stuck with we're partway through a three-year contract every once in a while a lieutenant is probably getting more under the contract than what the union people are happy about remember that a lot of things in town government have to do with personalities and if the lieutenant and the certain people in the union were getting along better quite frankly this probably wouldn't be here but here we are so now you have to play judge and say all right did the town violate the contract because if you don't you know go along and and make a decision the union is going to try to appeal and we'll see what happens but in any event I think what I heard the union say was well you didn't really violate that's what that is what the contract says but Chuck that's not what we meant and I and I honestly believe that you know when he says that that Jim's telling the truth okay that that may very well be have been on their end misunderstanding by some of the people okay uh but the real problem is that that's what the town understood the town understood that to be the case that's what the language says and that's what they implemented so we're not violating the contract the town is not violating the contract Town's implementing the contract as it's written so is there a middle ground I don't know you can think about all that or is it no sorry about that you're stuck with it for three years okay all those kind of things there ordinarily get resolved as Jim said when the town put that proposal in in exchange for that it gave the union some other things so now is what they're saying is Well by the way we don't want to give you what you think you got the lieutenant but we're not going to give you back some other things that you gave us as well give and take usually means compromise so here we are you know where the union is saying please rewrite the contract in a way that well if we thought about it more we probably would have wanted it that way there okay not saying at all that Jim is not telling the truth because I know him to be an honest and and good person okay don't get the wrong idea but unfortunately he's stuck with some people right now are unhappy with the lieutenant getting you know bigger share than what they expected how do you resolve this unfortunately you can see it hasn't gotten resolved they've tried it at different levels they tried at the chief's level they tried it at you know Chris's level now it's to you and uh my guess is honestly if if you say sorry about that we're not going to do it then they're going to try to see whether they can get some arbitrator to to to make a decision on this this is not going to get resolved by any anyone saying hey you're absolutely right you're absolutely wrong unfortunately the only right thing would be everybody to say shuck you know what that's what we agree to we're going to have to live with it and we'll never do it again probably what in the long run this is going to come out to be an arbitrator is not going to take a look and say I'm stuck with looking at the Four Corners of the contract before I listen to any external information as Jim will tell you you know the arbitrator will look and say what does the contract say are you violating the contract no you're not well then therefore I don't want I don't want to hear all these other stories but that takes us a lot of money a lot of time a lot of energy and unfortunately a lot of animosity that you know nobody benefits from so I wish there was a b we could cut in half like Solomon and figure out the right answer but uh it looks like there there's no movement uh in this situation so I suppose best I would recommend to you is to take a look at the contract if you think Bo the contract is not being adhere to then you ought to say hey by the way Chief I think you're reading the contract wrong on the other hand you listen to Chris and into the chief and you say yeah you are reading the contract right you're implementing the contract as negotiated but the Union not all that happy about it maybe you guys ought to go and talk and see if you can make some other you know compromises back and forth but bottom line if you have to vote one way the other I recommend that you upheld the the position of the chief and the uh the Town Administrator and say sorry that that's the deal we don't nobody loves it nobody's happy about it but that that's a deal so that's my input um I don't know if you have the Lieutenant's contract handy but I could probably pull say I want to make sure we're I don't have his contract with me tonight but I want to make sure we wouldn't be violating anything on his contract either let me take a quick look at that for you see if I have it and I bet the the chief probably knows it by heart but I'll I'm I'm opening up no he doesn't know by all right so I got the lieutenant then we have I've got a police chief contract running from 21 to 24 and if it opens up okay I have his contract open um it [Music] runs through June 30th of this year okay so it's expired um don't haven't got to the end of it to see whether it has an evergreen clause or not it has an hours of work uh it says he will be allowed to remain in the full-time rotation for overtime and off duty details right so is it possible that by upholding the aggrievance you'd be Viola the Lieutenant's contract that is a possibility although the contract it looks like at this point in time has expired let me take a look and see how long it lasts going to the end of the contract now if I can looks like the contract is expired I I don't see any any provis for it to extend I I can certainly take a longer look at it but it looks to me as though uh if you do something now you would not be violating his well let's see now well it's got some stuff in here about if you abolish his position and things like that but um short of that looks like the contract has probably expired I don't I haven't heard anybody extending that contract we knew I I at least nobody's talked to me about that sorry Jim yes thank you one says unless either party provides written notice to the other if it's intention to renegotiate or not renew the contract then it will automatically extend okay for an additional year so it looks to me as though if nobody has given any notice to each other about that contract it probably stays in effect for another year which would mean we would be what his contract means when it says he'll be in rotation for each of them the details in the overtime in it certainly looks like there's a possibility of that yes could I speak to that sure yeah um attorney Collins we we grieve that line in the the line that says the police Lieutenant will be allowed to remain in the full-time rotation for overtime and off-duty details when he negotiated that with the select board he did that alone with the select board and that violated the patrol Roman's contract we griev that and that was adjusted because it wasn't supposed to be put in there so so that line of him being on the detail list is is was right now I'm opening that up now for the first time no no problem I I just wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page thank you I I've got something here that talks about it Lieutenant addendum looks to me as though I've got it only in draft form but assuming that's correct give me a second yeah you're striking out Lieutenant will be allowed to remain in full-time rotation for overtime and detail okay um and inserting that the lieutenant will be allowed to take overtime shifts after they have been offered to all eligible union members and if you offered outside details after they've been offered to all eligible union members so on and so forth so again keep in mind that you know we had more time I I'd read it slower but it looks to me as though you may not have as much of a problem with violating the Lieutenant's contract now the fact that that you've agreed with the Union about where the Lieutenant's going to be and he's not complaining about it means obviously that it sounds like there's no violation so we're back to again did are you is the chief violating the contract as it's written and it sounds like For Better or Worse the answer is probably is not sounds like he's living with a contract okay so I'm sorry attorney Collins you said for the um police Lieutenant's contract it says that he's only to get overtime or details after all eligible members have been given opportunity yes so you wouldn't be by if you give giving him more under the contract with the Union than what his contract requires is a minimum you wouldn't be violating his contract but then he wouldn't be on the list he would be the very end of both lists every single time and therefore up this the sup the superseding contract would be the Union contract that you have there so he he he gets whatever that contract you sign with the Union is he's just put into that so the the chief's interpretation and the manager's interpretation in mind because I was there okay are that it would be as cheap has been implementing it where he's on the list and he moves up right what what however the chief is is is doing it now honestly was there tons of discussion for lots and lots of time about all that sound to me as a union I originally wanted one list and so on but everybody's got their own recollection of All That B bottom line the way the chief's implementing it right now is consistent with what the Union contract calls for then shouldn't the lieutenant move down when he takes an overtime shift just like everybody else does I think the chief is the only one that can answer that I apologize it's not I'm trying to because you're saying that the police officer's contract supersedes the lieutenant correctly tenant contract for all legal purposes is is not an imp it doesn't impact at all the contract you have with the Union if if you took and gave the lieutenant less than what his contract calls for that' be a problem but if he's getting more under the Union contract than what his contract calls for then it's not a problem find that a little bit Che yeah with those tears he can be charged in that tier but this tier is him by himself so that's why it doesn't rotate that but like I had explain like he's the last tier to get it it's kind of like forced to stay they don't get charge so they stay in their position on the list because they're because you can't fill it somebody else basically the same thing he's being he's the last for both details and over not details anymore because but he just read the Jack explain that very minimum what's in his contract neoti allow to be detail ination detail yeah put into the list that that's that's who seeds his let's just say for example right now the board would vote one way or the other let's say you voted and you said by the way we're going to stick with the provisions as the contract is written Lieutenant has nothing he can complain about with that because he's getting more than his contract calls for if you voted to say you Union you know you're right we're we're gonna basically correct the contract even though we might not have to Lieutenant can't complain about that either because he won't get any less under your revised contract that he has under his present contract so e either way you vote Lieutenant should it would not have any object could not have any legal objection to it so but he's he's not a party to to the Union contract so he can't say well you're violating my rights under that so whatever way you vote the lieutenant is really outside of that he'll he'll end up respecting or or living with whatever way you vote is there any indication how often this has become a problem I mean is is if one of the things the arbitrator is always going to ask is hey if we're a year and a half into the contract by the time we get to arbitration okay we're halfway through has the lieutenant now gotten five extra opportunities five 50 opportunities does anybody have some idea of of how big a problem that the union is might facing you have any numbers too um this m gave me like six weeks wor and we discussed them and AC see R way I see it that being build several the same day so everybody ended up with detail anyway so show anything wasc you don't have that people work on by any chance I I get the yes we can thank you so I can this is Sho you needed the officer's numbers I did um well it's their names the color actually happens when we uh liutenant gets shift technically his number does rot so that's what we here read aure this details jobs to detail so here for example you can see offic here ises to another so you notice sometimes uh person number to 11 since there 11 people in rotation for detail 10 officers plus 10 11 is the lowest possible number that you can get if you see a 10 you 10 people ination for over since the is not technically rotation for [Music] so and as I said if the lieutenant gets it he [Music] [Music] time that's what Jim was talking about how Lieutenant is able to faster up the list because when he takes to he does notate to div L back one those previous the 24 here is the highest you can be as 11 and 10 right should be yeah okay I don't know where that comes from I did notice that the some Nom uh there's some there's some odd ways that need to to hand some of I think if two details was at the same time sometimes is that go to spot excuse me how it's uh how it's shown in the rotation um I can certain [Music] you the chief said was you said blue was OT was one of two amous situations one R it's impossible to say how often say how often because everything just I couldn't hear everything the gentleman was saying there but understand that if you go to arbitration the arbitrator will say even if I rule for the union I have to have an actual concrete number of opportunities that the lieutenant had that otherwise he shouldn't have had okay and how much does all that add up to and how much money and where does it go so if it's impossible the last phrase the the offic said if it's impossible to figure all that out quite frankly unfortunately the arbitror may very well say sorry even if I rule for the union I can't can't give you any any remedy because there there's no clear way to figure out what the what the damages are so what he's going to probably do is he's going to say to people let's all sit down and figure this thing out and make it work for the next time or or some other time in the future maybe before the contract ends maybe not but in any of that know that that's probably what's going to happen because no arbitrator is gonna ultimately rule yes Union you win but you win a penny doesn't make any sense if you'd like to look over the thank you I think this going to look at these numbers first so I what I'm looking at now is just looking at the six weeks that were given and looking at or I should say each paper and looking at how many were given to Lieutenant versus how many were're given to everybody else and then just trying to get a number for each I think that's the only way to do it in the six week cycle but then you would have to look at so that's where it gets confusing because then you have to look at each officer and what each officer picked and how many they were given versus the lieutenant versus C days right because they may pass on a lot depending on what they going on so and if the lieutenant is next in line and he takes them and that detail is coming because might be something that doesn't want be over time so they Pass and Pass and Pass so it ends up going back to the same same person right it's the that at all but what the town asked for was the lieutenant the det this that's what we thought we were getting also on the last the last section think years specific instances St there seems to be a lot of contradiction to me in this being if it's accepted in the contract negotiations they accept to me they accepted it as written the question the question is how it's being interpreted as as stated because when these negotiations occurred there was only one list so it says a de detail call list but there was only ever one list when we negotiated this contract in the past there was two lists so they interpret it as we are going back to the two lists one being detail list call list one being overtime because that's how it was in the past and we stated on the contract eight detail call list not the list I guess is what they're saying just to clarify okay 201 2016 single for e what for that's as I read the as attorney Collins read the um police lieutenant contract with the addendum says full-time rotation for overtime and details after all eligible members um have been asked so to me that reads he's at the bottom of the list every single time I would have to agree which means that he should not be in the rotation you should be at the bottom of the list every single time that's what the addendum sets I don't know would that be a correct that's how I interpret his contract I think that's a clear reading of his contract that's right okay so when he goes on this one list he's at the bottom every single time that means everyone else gets first STS every single time well as I said the difference is that his contract is the minimum he has to get from the town's point of view they think they negotiated the contract to put him in a better position quite frankly than what his contract required okay that that that's the difference so if if you take the Lieutenant's contract and say look it doesn't affect us because right now we're not taking anything away from him so the Lieutenant's contract is not binding it at the moment it's the Union contract and the Union contract is the one that cheap is administering okay so whatever whatever the result is if your board says we're still gonna even though we don't have to we're going to rely on the Lieutenant's contract that's your decision or no we're going to read the contract the way it's written and the way it was negotiated the way it was signed and sorry Lieutenant that you know you got more than than what what you were had to be getting in Sor reunion you know you didn't know exactly maybe what you were what you were signing you made a mistake on all that so e either either decision on your part is legally okay and it clearly states a detail call list says eight detail callist doesn't say one list anywhere it just says eight detail callist so that's where the interpretation comes in was because it's been one list since 2012 for full-tim and 2016 for part- timr it's to assume that a detail call list is the one list for overtime in detail is the way it's been interpreted if the board is so inclined often times we have a quick talk this before you made it made a vote ask the UN to leave for a couple minutes so we have private conversation and then we then we you know just talk with the chief and the Town Administrator and ourselves and then bring the union back in if they're willing to do that probably not a bad use of five minutes yes just I can to address the chair I'm sorry the only thing that we can say is 12 there was never a nonunion member on a nonunion member on change all so to to refer back to 2012 2016 is BAS everybody's time we've now got a nonunion member on a Union contract list that's the issue it's not about well it's not it's it's about a n member on Union list that we agre to but we AG the thank you like us yes thank you that mean that I think that's everyone besides the chief and Chris Jack are we going Jack this is ex me are you going to ex that's what I'm just that's what I'm asking right now because you can't you can't just ask us to leave the room Jack without going into executive session and then you can't go into executive session under the open meeting Law Without saying you're going to go into executive session fourth meeting so that people will know that there's going to be an executive session so this is violating open meeting law on several different levels Sor Haven got what I said was with the Union's permission if theyve been willing to let us do this that' be fine it's not it's not executive session apparently nobody's posted for that from what I understand that's fine okay could have been because it obviously qualifies for that but if it if it wasn't posted as executive session and the union has a right to say no we won't leave the room I'm trying to figure a way to solve this thing here so I'm saying as a courtesy if you won't mind leaving the room we'll try to come up with a solution if that doesn't work for you stay in the room well I think that the the Practical thing is that the council take it under select board can take it under advice but have a conversation in Clos meeting if you want to do that to have us stand outside when it's 94 degrees while you while you have a chat it's it's unfair so I mean it's unfair and it's unhealthy and it's inappropriate frankly sorry five minutes if that's a problem CL close the session you know we we'll we'll meet some other time we'll talk some other time and we'll you know give the union an answer some other time that's not a problem i' I've never found a union to be this disc courteous but that's their business that's no that's have to post it as another executive session to discuss this unless you want unless you do it some other Avenue you close this hearing under the open meeting L and then have have as long as the select board says they're going to take advis and then if they would be would be inclined to tell us when they'll have a decision ision um little at that otherwise there's no you know we can't we're not going to just leave the room so but s outside while you have a chat it's not fair it's not appropriate um I think uh attorney Collins In fairness to the other member who's not here who was also part of theal negotiations I think we should be able us you're able to have an executive session with the other member as well a lot of sense that's fine like you know for whatever it's worth in this kind of case here we're closing the hearing we're going to take it under advisement we'll have an executive session in the next two weeks or whatever it might be we'll give the union answer after that that's that's the way they want to do it that's fine Madam chair you want to do it at your next meeting on the 29th but you you mentioned you are going away on vacation I'm on vacation next week if um the other board members cannot meet this week for an executive session which Glenn isn't here to ask at the moment we can do it on July 29th executive session and then following that executive session give them our answer will the answer have to be an open meeting well you you you can obviously discuss strategy regarding Collective bargain or conduct Collective bargain you could have done tonight in the executive session if you wanted to so uh what you'll do is is in in your executive session we'll come to some decision then you'll close the executive session come out and give the union your answer that's fine okay that same night sure if you want to you're ready to yeah I think we're gonna do that just a point of the agenda session yes okay thank you and you should be giving them an invitation to come back with their answer so we'll have to schedule that after our executive session so executive session you want to start off with it at 5:31 on the 29th or prob be the best thing to do yeah and then six o'clock have done here this is about a half hour well Glen will watch the meeting so we we can notify them of the time okay once the board has an idea how long we think the discussion is going to take so um attorney PA can you be present next two Mondays from now July 29th at 5:31 at 5:31 I just put in my calendar so I 5:30 but close enough okay it's in my calendar right now actually Madam chair if you want we can schedule two meetings executive session at 5:30 and then the regular meeting at 600 or 6:15 and that way there's two individual meetings and we don't have to worry about camera having to shut down or leave or Sly that would probably be the better way to do it yep thank you or do like 5:30 and 6:30 that way if we only take a half hour it still gives camera half hour to set up like normally pickes them up every meeting yeah we'll do that so 5:30 for executive session next week or sorry Monday July 29th and then 6:30 be we be regular session they'll be regular session and we'll just put them on as our first appointment yes thank you thank you thank you thank thank you you want I do believe so thank you so much thanks your time sorry thank you do you have any other business that you wanted to discuss I will second that motion any further discussion actually have um Chris on the um fire actually chief o Collins you or O'Neal my God how Colin O'Neal you are here um for the actively looking for call Members to help with increased call volume for both the fire and EMS is is that for part-time positions or full-time right and I know um Chris says I'm looking at Chief O'Neal I know he was supposed to be put on the agenda and wasn't so do we want to um after dep departmental reports I'll have them come up so that way you don't have to be here forever tonight all right um I did notice that Dave de roer did do West Street Cemetery yes so is he still in the process of it or did he finish it it's complete POS I haven't been there yet so I want to go check it out but he said he saved a lot of money by doing it in house which is really good all right and I think those were if questions so all in favor I I all right so Chief O'Neil wanted to come please thank you thank you for coming in today so we just wanted to do a check-in on the budget okay um so um so you want projections of what 25 budget is going to look like or the current budget yeah um so as of right now um we still have an injured firefighter um so we have a provisional position still so we will most likely go over on wages um and then over time we it's hard to tell if we will go over on overtime uh just because it's the beginning of the fiscal year um as for the perdum um wages we most likely will go over on those um as this week alone we have four shifts out of the S days week that are covered by perdum members because no full-timers bid at the overtime so to make sure the ambulance they didn't service the pdms picked up those which is great because we're not paying the overtime rate but it's also not calculated into the perdum rate for coverage could no no no no PR it's lower but when I do out the shifts there's only a um minimal amount of uh fluff as you call it or overage um so we most likely will go over because they're covering the shifts and we're only eight days into the new fiscal year which again that's very hard to budget for when I don't know who's going to take vacation who's going to be out sick who's gonna do take comp time um and also not knowing that a full-timer is not going to bid at overtime an overtime shift again it at one point you're saving money because you're not paying the overtime but at the next you're expending a prum line item that isn't really made to be covered with by that many shifts so feels good not going to go over time but you're so the person called out right is that what you're saying yeah so I'm using now instead of if the per so right now how we operate is there's four full-time paramedics that work 24hour shifts so they how they Pace out is is a full-timer is on then they're off then they're on then they're off and then they have five days off that covers a 7-Day rotation um so once they call out and we're not at the paramedic level we have to be at the paramedic level per the state and per our oems contract so by going taking a pum medic we fill that position and in order to be in service we need to have two full time or two members on the end now one has to be a paramedic the other one can be either a paramedic or an EMT basic and I do as much as I can fill in ships during the day during the week when there is a need for the to stay in service which obviously I'm paid out in salary so I that doesn't so for the most part you try at Le oneic one yes right yeah if we don't have em then you have to right because there has to be two people there has to two people in either way it has to be two people so one yes which you pay yeah which is fine we're budgeted for that we so at the highest rate which is the paramedic rate so when we fill with an EMT basic it's difference less than what the paramedic makes so it's kind of again a little bit of catchup every once in a while when there's someone so it's the PDM hours that aren't budgeted they're not the extended hours that they have budgeted for year a little bit I couldn't give you the exact F talk a little bit more about so they're we're covered to have a paramedic every night that's pran by giving them the shifts that the overtime didn't take those are I want call an extend so they're taking shifts that the full primers and taken yes right because per their contract they get first all shift overtime so I guess um my question would be then if we're if you're budgeted for one paramedic overnight and then you need two people in the ambulance so who's that other so if that person calls out you're now calling in a pum that's taking that shift if then so if the full-timer Y calls out it goes to overtime first if no overtime takes it then it goes to the pum paramedic okay now if it's a we have two full-time Basics one which is provisional and one is a permanent full-time position if they call out it still goes to over time but filling with a basic is a lot easier than filling with a paramedic just because there's a shortage not just in Grammy but Nation so then for f year 20 we're in fiscal year 2025 now so for fiscal year 2026 I'm we're going to budget true operating cost of what it yes so the true operating cost of what it cost to run the fire department and the PDM is the is the line item that is under budgeted right now for the extra shifts yes for normal day-to-day operations it's budgeted where it should be with a little bit of again a little bit of extra just to a couple hours here a couple hours there but not for the amount of hours that I foresee them taking um the other thing is we I've already denied four full-time R vacation time in the first week and a half of because we just didn't we don't have the Personnel like we could have a we could have a hundred PDM paramedics and EMTs but if they all work their other jobs and they can't come to us we can't sh fill their shift so then I have to deny the full-tim so the four fulltime Medics are the ones running the ambulance service and keeping it a float per se with the pdms helping which they do help tremendously but at certain times like this time of year is hard because there's ton of overtime in their full-time departments or their other jobs so they're going to go where there's more money than what we're offering it it's a pretty much a balancing act is what we're trying to do for Staffing little yeah and our call volume is only going up just like everyone around us so um right now those are the proceed right now I can tell you that's the pred what I believe is going to go over right now depends if we keep on tracking like we are we're going to hit 400 plus fire call so it depends on how many call Members come back depends on how much we pay out in that line item for part-time fire response so it's unfortunately it's a very fluid topic and subject and it's hard too because you don't want to deny them vacation time all the time because they're going to get burnt out right so burnout is a huge concern for M timers and mik balls though that's why we're actively always looking for B members now our um the rate at which we paid that is comparable to other districts it's just that they work full-time for their District um two they been um but be a problem down the road times because uh yes but at that it's for we so s life support level either um there have but we have is better than going out of service completely so at that point you almost make it mandatory that somebody needs to they have to they get four yes is that working there 24 hour go 48 hour unfortunately do this year already but that's all that there is so this um so we know that we're going to go over the Bud where will that come from we'll have to have a town meeting right or during the annual town meeting and pay for it and pull it out of where we pulled it last year yeah we'd have to figure that out at that okay all the other uh departments do a 24-hour shift too is that like standard [Music] it it to reduce the burnout so so when they're not on they're sleeping no they're station duties but during working hours they're not just sitting there not doing anything they're doing station chores and doing apparatus checks and making sure everything's ready to go yeah restocking but yes they do get they also get woken up at all hours of the night to go out and call So yeah thank you for the update I don't know how to stop there from going up the budget stop yeah do you have any suggestions of how to stop the um we we do we need to hire more full-time staff but we also need to keep per DM staff so it it we're at this very fragile state where even if we hired two more full-timers we still need to have the pum staff and on call staff um to ever go away from that we would need to hire 20 more full-timers to make 26 and then you could get rid of all the forums and part-time on call members but it would just be a strictly full-time but you would then pay overtime for them to come back for call back so which would cost yeah so like right now any call member that doesn't come back for a fire call or an emergency call minus the ambulance we don't there's no pay going out to them but once they come back we get them they get paid but we're also going over a little bit because when I first got here we only had one person or two people show up and we relied strictly on Mutual a which we can't do now we have average about seven people coming back per fire call and during the day we're still very light CU everyone has full-time jobs unless they're a full-time firefighter with us um so that's another increase in cost because there was no one coming back and that poor group of people coming back which is great and get to the town the service that they're paying for and that they deserve and they're not fire company to come to your house and it's also the same with the ambulance we're Staffing the ambulance and not going out of service as many times as we did over a three year period and you're getting the service um and we're able to utilize some of these call back Personnel to take secondary medical calls that help with offsetting us losing other departments because every time a mutual a amance comes in and we don't have a paramedic on that ambulance we lose that billable income when we do have a today we and and our ambulance inter we 475 on the on duty crew in ammo where originally we would have just how much does a it depends on what step they're at okay the tier system tier system yep 10 steps what's that Lo so right now I can tell you that I have two that are at $76,000 that's not step one know it no that's not no that's not step one so none of my Medics are at step one all my Medics are five or above most of them are close to 10 yes thank you which I believe is about 40 bucks in a row and I know you're going to know this that's anyway it's about, and that's without any OT or anything so if if we were to help with the how much I got to think how much we went over last year I don't have the article in front of me now no that was with one article but there we're about 210 combined ,000 so we get two paramedics that still they they're around set 10 that's 160,000 a year so that would alleviate some of it and it would also alleviate that's not guaranteeing he's not going to go over on overtime shifts other things because you still even with even with two people the issue becomes is he still needs the DMS that he hasn't budgeted for and he still needs the cover for people taking time off that it wasn't much to good for the PMS though the budget would work if they weren't taking the extra shifts that aren't because if we added two which we're not going to get two more full-time paramedics they're just not out there in the cards unless we were lucky and we have someone come that's already full-time but that would help and would have to change the contract which I know I'm talking contractual stuff but if you had two on shift at all times if one went out you could fill that with money that's right now like I'm saying we don't there's only four paramedics we can add if we can add two more paramedics it would help the it's a balancing ER but there's no guarantee that you're still not paying as much over time and W depending on the time they take off if you add two more anywhere any time you add two more Personnel you're going to not a ton but you're gonna people that have vacation time and are allowed to take time off the the option to potentially look at is if you can run the units with one paramedic and one basic you could potentially save money that way because the basic is less than what the paramedics are get so we have two Bas and Link them with a paramedic over the 24 hours a day that is a way to cut some of your deficit said they're roughly $3 L an hour to they are perms are not not the fulltime Basics the there will be a cost savings like Chris said some could be more some could be less but eventually as they climb up they have for so before we can even think about that we have to figure out where the money's coming from so we can't just say hey we're going to give you um we're going to we think it's a great idea hire two basic um EMTs but where's the money going to come from and we just expend the all of our money for fiscal year 2020 if you want you could fund it through a stabilization fund but it would be a structal town right or I would have to ask the ask permission and that will require a two3 vote to vote it out of the stabilization and if I remember correctly uh Chris the special town meeting is 2,000 two to three I think um then you should definitely discuss this at our next meeting with um Mr seon and see um what he thinks as well but I think if that's going to alleviate some of some of the bleeding so to speak I think I think that would be the way to go but again we would have to ask the town for commission to be able to do that hopefully that will rate some of it you know that's not going to give them their vacation time right we need a paramedic on at all times right and I mean it leaves a little leeway of their car po at basic but if you're using per DMS you can let your fulltime go on vacation knowing you have a per DM paret to take over that spot along with basic see that they do either way it seems like a give and take because you're pulling somebody in from the outside and paying the overtime either the way yeah it's yeah it's give or take obviously the pdm's less um so it just some of that does get gray because of their contract so that's the other caveo mean with the basic or just with the no just with the First Rate refusal for overtime like if it's a shift overtime right now per their contract they get first R refusal to that okay so yes the is it working great right now and yes we can like we're filling with pems right now because no one wanted the overtime but if they start I hate to use the word hungry but if they want to have overtime they're allowed to have it so sorry that I can't answer it fully but understand a lot better than I did before this meeting so thank you for coming in and U we'll discuss it with Glen at our next meeting and we'll see well make a decision and go from there okay thank you all right thank you very much all right so next on the agenda is approve and siging inst stance okay Don of grammy authorization for payments warrant number 0076 dated 614 2024 total dispersement on 176 we at $350,100 98 cents that is your motion I will second that motion any further discussion discussion at this time um Chris I had one question on this one the pekam industry is incorporated yep what was that for that's all the asphalt that took down okay at West Street right well no East Street I think it said right yes okay he he's been doing a lot of Paving around town and that's basically for the company to come in and do the paving and then what is be S hady fire district to tax title basically just like we do we have people who do not pay their taxes on time they get placed into tax title or basically put a lean on their property they South Hadley fire district 2 taxes that are levied through the town of greeny and if they don't pay those that gets levied also into tax title payment is made we have to pay them to South ay District so in Ence someone paid their back taxes someone that was belonged to South B District 2 so we had to pay atten and the voided checks were just not supposed to go to those people there's two voided checks on here two voided checks St 56676 just trying to think okay uh one it was yes it went to the wrong person okay and the other one I believe was an over an overpayment that we had a void out that they sent a check back all right any questions okay all in favor I she she make a motion for the town of gry autorization for payments dated 614 2024 warrant number 076 s for total dispersion of 269,000 95675 I second that motion any further discussion all in favor by seven sixcess there should be two in there next one I make a motion town of Grandy authorized for payment dated 6224 warrant number 78 total dispersement for Warrant number 78 261,000 should have might be underneath I my paper 78 for make a motion for payroll account summary for the to of Grandy warrant number 77 dated 618 2024 for a total of 694,000 second that motion any further discussion all in favor I and I will not be abstaining from the select boarded teacher salaries out of necessity m all right so we don't have any minutes this time we should have a bunch of them on July 29th so next is to affirm the 20125 appointments I have the sheet that Kathy gave us and she color coded Chris I don't see what be did you get that the one day like our license that's on let me see send the men fa do you want these that the please who sendies to actually we sending the copies to all you yeah because we're going to give it to you they only gave us one copy all right so yeah I don't have the one day liquor license in ha I just have the um Brotherhood let me just make sure it don't go into the poll hearing okay no never mind he's got it sorry we got it okay the Town of 10 West Street R Mass make a motion for a one day special alcohol permit via $100 special license for alcoholic beverages for nonprofit organization only special license for wine and malt date of event 72024 responsible manager Avery Lee battles organization named paragus strategic it address of 112 Russell Street had the masas 01035 telephone number 41337 4965 with a descript destion of event for an annual company picnic for our staff and families taking place at D Frame park with 40 to 60 participants alcoholic beverages are being purchased from Horizon beverage the quantity of alcohol being purchased will be three cases of beer 72 total two cases of Selzer 24 total and two bottles of R start time will be 10:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. so I will second that motion um can I make a suggestion yes that it is a special one day wine and malt license what's that alcohol it's not an alcohol license it's a one it does say one in M when I read it as Al okay so I just and um Chief do you have any suggestions or objections or anything sure that's any one of those okay yeah they've been here before right I any further discussion all in favor I there should be a place for you to insurance want us just to sign and date the side of it um or we don't have to right because you're going to print's going to print out the other one and then we'll sign that at the next all right so we kind of did that a little out of order because you found the one day liquor license but that's okay so we're going to go back to affirming 2025 appointments so usually what we do is we say what the committee or group is or fund you say the person's name and for how long their term is do you have okay in that folder thank you there you have it Y and so before we start Chris all the people have been contacted and she has the ones in red as the ones I don't know if she gave you the same copy we have but I believe the ones in red are the ones that are returning the ones that are not in red we don't know for sure so are we or they haven't I would okay and then they'll let us when they get the card they'll rejected at that point okay perfect I'm sorry so um I would do each fund or each committee and then State the names and for their term so this would be yep for the F the fiscal year 2 so Chris do you want him to say June with an expiration date of June 30th or can we just say for 2025 fiscal year so I think I think you guys have me due till June 30th of that year we we usually give an actual dat certain okay so June 30th lot people don't know what our fiscal year is right that's true because you know the calendar year is January so a lot of people think it's January to December but it's not well federal government is September oh that's true all right so June 30th uh for all of them dep no matter of the year you can just make that make that statement at the beginning of the appointment is that that the ending date will be June 30th of the Year read that way you don't have toing it because he'll need probably another couple Waters if he has to do that right you know what that's like for okay so I make a motion to accept the board memberss appointments for following boards with an expiration date June 30th 2025 and must otherwise stated by year yep first on this list is alers writing Street fund members are Diane Barry barara hild and Brenda wishart all expiring in 202 I will second that motion any further discussion all in favor I I second is American with Disabilities Act committee Jennifer Crosby and Christopher Martin expiring June 30th 2025 I will second that motion any further discussion all in favor I Animal control officer Kim Kimberly Bernier Goldsmith second that motion for um expiring June 30th 20252 any further discussion no all in favor I uh board of appeals Steve NY expir on June 30th 2027 Jeremy carrier expiring June 30th 2025 ronal hero June 30th 2025 Kathleen Bronner June 30th 2026 Brian trony June 30th 2026 I'll second that motion all in favor I I oh I should have said any further discussion I apologize okay the name uh building department day named Cody expiring June 30th 2025 I was second that motion any further discussion no all in favor I uh cable TV advisory committee David Johnson June 30th 2025 expiration I will second that motion um Chris I had a qu didn't we have um attorney August doing it because we didn't have an advisory committee for the cable TV no okay because he he was our attorney at the last one okay and he specializes actually in cable contract so okay we decided to go with the same one seeing already knew what the contract read and he'd be one bring C someone so can we have a committee at one person that we have to three well it usually nice to have three but I guess if you want to you could of Committee of one okay and keep searching for additional members okay all in favor I Capital Improvement planning committee Joseph erck Rob schin Jr Charles Mayu Thomas Russel Jeffrey rule expiring June 30th 2025 oh second that any further discussion all in favor I Charter Day committee Brian Krillin sue the saier Martin L Liberty and Glenn seon expiring June 30th 2025 I will second that motion um Chris didn't Kathy say there was four other people that wanted to sign up that called her the charity committee I think there was at least two that I know of okay so they'll be coming forward on the next one okay and they would call Copy if they want get on because I had a couple of people appro please yes then we can put them on at effec of the next meeting okay and the number is 413 467 7177 okay all in favor I uh Chief procurement officer Christopher Martin expiring June 30th 2025 and seconding that motion any further discussion no discussion all in favor I I Commissioner of trust funds Diane Morgan Barbara hos child and Kathy Leonard all expiring June 30th 2025 I will second that motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I I conservation commission David deset expiring June 30 2025 William shaheim Kevin Shoemaker Amanda Smith associate member oh I'm sorry Shen and Shoemaker are expiring June 30th 2027 Amanda Smith associate member expiring June 30th 2025 Edward chapalain June 30th 2025 I second that motion any further discussion any discussion all in favor I cables Lewis Barry Mark Johnson and Kathy Leonard all expiring June 30th 25 I second that motion all in favor I I no discussion no council on agent Advisory Board an bot Lillian Kus Janet Mont magney elanar white all expiring June 30th 2027 in addition to Barbara hild Joyce polverini Robert Kanis and Teresa Johnson uh hosch child Pini expiring 2025 June 30th and Kus and Johnson expiring 2026 June second that motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I think on that one no that's okay two more on that Carol Moret and Carol zabowski also Council on agent Advisory Board and uh expiring June 30th 2026 also Stephanie Pratt an associate non- voting member expiring June 30th 2025 second that no further discussion any discussion all in favor I I electrical inspectors Arthur crusen Jr Bruce peler assistant and Richard Gaza assistant expiring June 30th 2025 second that motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I I Emergency Management director Kevin ogrady and assistant director Christopher Martin Isa yeah I think uh Kevin Grady is the director okay hasch um expiring June 30th 2025 second motion any further discussion R in favor I I ethics Commission a on Cathy Leonard expiring June 30th 2025 second motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I I finance committee Jennifer Mallet expiring June 30th 2027 Joe Feria and Scott Wilson expiring June 30th 2025 Robert blman thei and John J Liber Jr expiring 2026 June 30th second that motion all or sorry any further discussion no discussion all in favor I I fire and ambulance department fire chief Michael P O'Neal expiring June 30 2025 second that motion any further discussion any discussion all in favor I so just I would just say for um like you're doing now for the fire and ambulance department fulltime and call Force fire ambulance all all of these are expiring 202 so then you don't have to say the date and you're just saying the names so all further names will be expiring June 30 2025 for fulltime fire and call forest fire an Benjamin eat Fisher EMT Aaron Kurt David EMT Michael peler firefighter EMT Maria knockoff perov perov thank you firefighter andt can I can I ask a question is it just saying EMT or is it saying emtp p p you have to say that because that's a paramedic okay okay apologies no no I'm I'm just asking the question that's all is basic right B is basic yes just to make that distinction so so we know what we're saying forward uh Micheline Turon firefighter param Tyler Ivon lieutenant firefighter paramedic uh in the call Force fire ambulance category we have Marissa Bailey fir fighter emtb Roger boft firefighter Kevin Benson firefighter EMT paramedic Edward Chaplan firefighter Ryan seir firefighter MTB zap seir ant basic Hannah Einstein EMT paramedic Jonathan Delgado firefighter Joseph Fernandez firefighter andt basic Nicole gy firefighter em basic Allan Hodges firefighter ENT paramedic Miranda goia goia goia fir fighter EMT basic Steven leopolis firefighter Allan Leone firefighter and T basic Scott liy firefighter Robert liusi firefighter Nathaniel Massie firefighter chance mlan firefighter EMT basic hly main firefighter em basic Matthew Niles firefighter entt paramedic Darren O'Reilly firefighter firefighter EMT paramedic Austin clant firefighter EMT paramedic Josh power firefighter Josh Rondo firefighter andt basic Paige St Pierre firefighter M basic Christopher Town firefighter ant basic Raymond Warren firefighter EMT basic Taylor Warren firefighter EMT Mel Weiss BR firefighter entt basic Brady Williams firefighter I will second that motion any further discussion no discussion all in favor I I Chris do you think we can split the pages I know usually the chair doesn't make the motion but just to help with the reading if you want to give him a break yes okay so I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to do the next four four and then um I'll make a motion for the next four and then we'll move on to the next four and we'll do it Page by Page we've got four more pages quite a bit actually if you want read the whole page and then approve the page as that's okay let's do that now that way it'll go a little bit quicker to okay so I will make a motion to approve for Warden Michael O P O'Neal um and remember all these are expiring June 30th of that year for 2025 gas inspector Fred Maran and Michael McCain for 2025 gr the agricultural commission William Clark and Evelyn hatch for 2027 Thomas Benson Jr 2025 Lynn Galia 2026 and Russell AR arnh Hammer arnh Hammer 2026 for gry local cultural Council El Lear and Terren for 2025 elanie bomman Joanne dafia Carolyn dlab sneeding Helen schiding schneid H Helen her two and anah Hannah s for 20126 I don't remember the name on that I'm trying to picture him as you're going through all right for Insurance advisory committee Christopher Martin for until haard mitigation committee is David der roer Christopher Martin James TR trumpy Kevin ogrady and Michael P O'Neal All expire in 2025 historical commission is Ben Hy Teresa lejoy and Cynthia gaspari uh oh no it says she resigns so it's just Ben Hy and Teresa lejoy expiring 2026 historic district commission Catherine Morris expiring 2027 Steven n and William Johnson alternate members or keys and Alternate members sorry both expiring 2025 land Review Committee is Glenn seon William uh Shaheen and James trony all expiring 2025 local emergency planning committee is m P O'Neal David D roer Lee Lon Christopher Martin Jeffrey mcferson and Kevin ogrady all expiring 2025 and local life licensing agents all expiring 2025 are Alan Brooks Earl Brown Kurt Carpenter Zachary Gilly Kendall Hill Manning Eric Jorgenson Steven Maran sergeant Gary po Lieutenant Jason Richard Sergeant Ryan senle James White and Kevin O'Grady chief so that is by motion second motion all in favor oh sorry any further discussion all discuss all in favor I Municipal here in officer Christopher M Martin 2025 space committee Crystal burain Dave desats William Shaheen James trony Megan slosa associate member expiring 2025 Parking Clerk Daman Cody Mark Johnson assistant to the Parking Clerk William Johnson assistant to the Parking Clerk expires 2025 parks oversight ad hoc committee Kathy Leonard ravan SLO Nicholas Robinson Tim Abbott Jeremy carrier expire in 2025 pars Brooks Earl Brown Kurt Carpenter Zachary Gilly Kendall Hill Manning Eric jordanson Steven Marian Sergeant Kevin elady Chief Gary po Lieutenant Jason Richard Sergeant Ryan senle and James White all expiring 2025 Personnel Board Rob shovin Jr expiring 2027 Albert Bale expiring 2025 Jeffrey rule 2027 Brian hild 2025 Glend Durham 2026 Wayne Wilson 2026 Christopher Martin X officio 2025 Dennis lur associate member 2025 Pioneer Valley Planning Commission representative is Nita Abbott no she no oh no there's no alternate there uh expires 2025 PV PC joint trans Transportation committee Dave de roer expires 2025 police and dispatch Department chief of police Kevin O Brady expires 2027 parttime officers Brian barolet Ian Howard and Jeffrey L Reed expire in 2025 I will second that motion any further discussion no discussion I think um Chris just for Nicholas Robinson under the park oversight ad hoc committee his last name was spel wrong that's all it's Robin okay I you point these out and every now and then C thisisn't all right all in favor I I all right so I'll make a motion to appoint the full-time officers Alan Brooks Earl Brown Kurt Carpenter Zachary Gilly Kendall Hill Manning Eric Jorgenson Steven Maran Sergeant Kevin O'Grady Chief Gary poer Lieutenant Jason Richard Sergeant Ryan senle and James White all expired in 2026 police matron is um Lori Hebert and Marissa Bailey expiring 2025 police dispatcher Clerk and matron as Linda Menard expiring 2026 please dispatcher is John fer far yeah fer Jeffrey Lawson and leeet expiring 2026 police advisory committee anet and I do this every year Chris Amiga okay uh William E Johnson Scott Merill Lyn snowek Mercier Wayne Wilson and Zachary Gilly as a non- voting member expiring 2025 Public Safety lays on is Kevin ogrady Chief 2025 right to know coordinator Jeremy carrier for 2025 sign officer Damen Cody 2025 storm water phase 2 Damon Cody David de roer leel laon William Shaheen and James trony expiring 2025 Town accountant are we leaving that for now Chris because we've appointed you until we can find a replacement so do we appoint you until the replacement or do we you suppose you have but so did you use an initial in the other ones I think you did no okay so I will make um so part of this motion is Town accountant is Christopher Martin and this will be for the year 2025 you find until we find a replacement second all right Town Council Brian oul expiring 2025 town of gramby harassment officer Kathy Leonard and Christopher Martin 2025 expiring tree Warden is Dave der roer expiring 2025 gramy veterans agent David Mendoza expiring 2025 Veteran War Memorial committee um it's Jo Joshua bu buard Robert schin Jr Jason Richard Jeffrey rule Thomas rousell Brian sell s s and James sell and Stephen weatherbe all expiring 2025 I have a second second motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I I guess I could have finished off the CH western Mass Regional local emergency Christoper Martin Michael P O'Neal expire in 2025 West over Metropolitan Development Corporation John rir Jr expires 2025 West Street Building committee Steven chinaki Dale Clark Lynn Mercier Kevin ogrady Jennifer Silva James trony Micheline Turon expire in 2020 2 and last but not least zoning enforcement officer Damen Cody sty I will second that motion any further discussion no discussion all in favor I I all right so next we did the town account already we did Forge pond open space committee we're just waiting back uh to hear back from some of the committee members because um we were supposed to schedule a meeting in August early September with the hopes of having our community engagement meeting at Dino Fest on September 14th um and me and Dave deset are the only ones that have responded to the emails so it's been about two weeks so I will try and send a followup and see where we stand for that meeting um but the police chief sent out the red calls um and the superintendent at the school sent out um all calls to the community and uh we got a lot of responses from it and the yard signs so um I think the yard signs are still at the Town property but the school threw out the signs that we had there because they threw out my running signs for a event that I had when I was going to reuse them and just redate them so hopefully we won't need them because they're coming now um but I will keep you guys updated as soon as I know of a date for a meeting for the open space um but our hopes is to have the community engagement meeting on um September 14th during Dino Fest we'll have a t there and then um for green communities I don't have an update on that okay hold harmless contracted what I'm going to do is send you all a copy of the one DC own and see if that's what the board will use forever language to okay so yeah because they do a lot of volunteer work on the p and Trail okay and they are a municipality or a state see so they probably have other language folding Harless or actions okay all right and West Street building project did you guys the uh they did meet with the two people who responded to the RFS uh they did rank them and actually I had a phone call today with a top ranked one and we are in the process of uh getting together a agreable contract and the cost for them to perform was okay and nothing back from the state on the samples right they were clean I haven't heard anything on it and I actually wrote to Western Mass environmental asking if I can get a copy of the test results and I haven't heard so okay give them another there yeah with the holiday last week it might have slowed them down a little B all right and then gry greenhouse gas emissions reduction plan that is something that we will have to decide if we want to move forward with as a community I know um I think it was two meetings ago right it was presented to the board but we haven't seen Glenn so I want to do further discussion on that and see if that's something that we would want to do the grants that they're offering is for Community engagement so it's not for municipalities um to lower their green gas emissions what they're pushing for is to educate um community members on how to save money for their house like um getting the energy audit and going forward with that insall yeah yep and uh the veterans Flags update I sent uh Chris some information today on that it is uh quite a lengthy process so I guess um we have to decide if we want to move forward on it at this time because we have a lot of stuff going on and a lot of things moving so Chris will be sending that to you and Glenn uh for review and we can make we can discuss it further at the next meeting on the 29th all right and then Mass do project moving along do you do you know who the project leader is there there was an email I saw once okay I have to go back and see if I can find I think they have that their Mass doot number posted on that telephone poll it's like in magic marker on a piece of cardboard that's is that is that the D number it says Mass do on it says do yeah so I'm thinking if because I think um there was somebody who told me that if you go to the mass doot website and you put in that number all the project plans come up so it can give us more of a time frame time frame to see if we are to see how much of the time crunch we're on with this water project if we want to move forward with it because we might not have time I don't know how long it's going to take at Five Corners they got to be close because they got the third additional Lane already really with the base Cod the am stre Pavement in they got all the curve curving in they've changed all the uh catch basing material so I don't know how much more that they've put down the sidewalks they've already put the sidewalks in and then we'll be if they do repave it completely we're on a 5year moratorium for that right so then we're essentially on yeah is even if we get the two years you can take the water up here to Pizza Palace that's it right it's around that area it's yeah you know and then that's in two years so we would have to do all the leg work and get it ready to apply for the grant okay yeah it's a lot of moving pieces this year five but we could still bring it down yeah I was going to say we can't we can bring it down Pleasant Street but then we have to stop because we can't rip up the road and I think that's too long of a stretch to Bor I know you can't I know we boarded under 202 in one area to put a sewer line in you mean go underneath the pavement yeah okay yeah and I don't know how long the stretch they can do that how far it can go and things of that nature I'm not sure either so all right and so still I know we already said this earlier Chris but still no update from one stop for growth so I don't think we got awarded the like he said I didn't hear anything back usually it's like hey you know you want to go for this Grant come Ona this this I got and we need this this and this but they all right we'll have to do the the leg work I guess and take it as far as we can and then apply for the grant next year when it opens up again um and then the senior workof program Chris starting it that's all I can say getting all the stuff you had handed out before putting it all now did was it do you guys have a PDF converter like when you get okay so at least you won't have to start off from scratch you can kind of convert it over and then make it your own okay all right and then I'm not ashamed to say I plagiarize well it's not plagiarizing it's a borrowing most communities plagium we will say that up front why reinvent the wheels copy and past all right and I believe we're just waiting for Glenn to give his evaluation to Kathy um for the TA evaluation and then Municipal Water and the MW project well we talked to District 2 today about Municipal Water so I think the next step is to call the engineer but we'll have to find out Chris how much it's going to cost and then where do we pull that money from because nobody's going to do a study for free so would you be able to actually did they give you a copy of this yes okay I made sure I got one before in the elevations I know because I wrote all over mine so I mean I can give it to you have all my chicken scatch I'm fine okay so maybe we can reach out to the engineer that we use last time and just see what the cost would be for him to look at this type of project well I the pro the pro problem is this are we going to have him be involved with a full design with a full 15,000 yeah it was 15,000 ft or are we just going to pick a piece I think we should just do a face because I don't know I don't know if we're going to get the funding for all of it he said at least three .8 million I mean we can try and go for the whole bulk of it but don't you have to use it within that year you have to expend it within that year unless so otherwise we would just have to apply for it in phases right looking at the way he has it laid out you're all over the place that'll never be one no because you're going all the way down Pleasant you're going down Karen Drive you're going up ammer Street you know Pleasant Street you know we now know the 202 you can only basically go to um on here it's on where Ramy liquor store is where he's got it identified yeah because because of the moratorium that will be put on right so if it's just do the same study that was done the last time in two years say say there's a moratorium put on this and we're not able to get that cross in because he was hoping that we could get that cross in right at Five Corners here where we could at least lay the pipe down underneath the P before they pave that was his hope so if we can do that then he can take it I think the chief was concerned about I should have asked the chief when he was here too because he made a comment that the chief was concerned about grany country grain and gramby housing I don't understand why his concern was about it when the pipe's going up that far so it was a little confused on what the concern of I think I think it was to the grain star was the amount of pressure that would be that would be available if we're relying on hydrant system up there okay because if it's not enough PSI then they would have an issue trying to put out a fire at the grain store okay or at the elderly con and that's because it's only 40 pounds he was saying right of pressure or PSIs what is it what is that 2 280 yeah they only have about a little less than 50 pounds of pressure okay and typically they want at least 58 he said right yeah which is around the 260 yeah all right so I think Chris if that could be our phase one I guess but we got a tie in somewhere right and the water is coming from Pleasant Street so we would have to go all the way down Pleasant Street you can lay the pipe and later okay I think when he was talking about get the pipe in the ground yeah that way they pave after the pipe is in the ground all we have to do then is connect it to phase two or phase three or what PH but phase for and uh charge it that way most people think we have to build from uh their connection at the end of Pleasant Street coming down and then but we can go backwards so which is so we would lay the pipe from Pizza Palace all the way through 202 that would be phase one and maybe see if you can get it out by CVS there okay and up past dun maybe up to the condos okay because how far back are they going up there I think they went a little bit past CVS didn't they in this round yeah it looks like almost a Pleasant Brook feed but like halfway to it yeah so I think that would probably be what we want the engineer to look at because the moratorium is going to be on 202 yes can they put a moratorium on our state road I sorry on our town roads because pleasantry it's a Town Road but they PID it whatever they PVE okay so then we would have to do the CVS in the Pleasant Street that they are Paving yes so U right up to here is the moratorium so we'd only be able to go to Pizza Palace right here up 202 to gry Housing Authority and then pass 600 ft to um that intersection to CBS and then at least P to the Crescent Valley Condominiums so that that would have to be our phase one if we don't want to have a 5-year moratorium on us that's a lot it is a lot especially if the state comes in and decides are going to pay that's why I'm curious what that do yeah that's why I'm curious if I I'll look at the do number tonight if I can see it it's getting dark already but is it's right on the telephone pole I think in from of dunin donuts there a telephone pole right there on the corner and it had a mass do number on it his usually online they have like a time frame but that is a lot yeah especially if they Sly going pay time right cuz we would have to go 4,086 ft for the 202 60 ft for the CVS and then I don't know or 600 ft sorry for the CVS and I don't know how much the other one would be because it just gives a total for that road but we take it to Crescent Valley little stretch is 3,000 that's about a third 55 56 to 5 is that sound right Chris does that sound right with the um for phase one I mean we can ask the engineer if that's even something that's a lot of feat to cover in phase one but we at least need it down 202 because of the moratorium that will be put on it if we're able to depending on the timing of the pavement going down and then CVS is 600 feet so all of 202 it says is 4,086 ft and then you got 600 feet for the CBS stretch on Pleasant Street and then we're estimating about a th to the Condominiums so roughly 5,800 feet is what phase one would be which is a lot but that would cover that intersection and then you were saying does the engineer need to be involved for all of that right because s had Hadley District 2 um well we would subcontract this out to a company right we have to walk the bid right and so then it would be whoever took the bid or the lowest bidder I guess um and the engineer would be needed for the bridge where was the bridge that they were talking about that okay right where the um where do is working and they have all their conservation tubes along for the water you know yes yes okay yes right here we can't touch here so the engineer doesn't need to be involved necessarily correct oh because that's the only thing we needed the engineer for yes M okay and then we had asked them if we could have put the line down the sidewalk instead of yeah Road I remember you saying that and he said no we couldn't do it because of the amount of ledge and instructions that are in the way because that would have been the easy way we could have proceeded with the project and not worry about the moror right but now they have the sidewalks going well not here yet yeah but it's easier having a three foot wide side Sidewalk then a 24 foot wide Road right okay so then do we need to contact the engineer we just need to get an estimate on the phase one right so one think it's just like few emails right enough no they did I think the last pH was 2018 right when you guys looked at the putting water down 202 2019 so I was not on the board yet but they had um Kathy had sent us this and um I can have her send it to you but phase one and it doesn't say three and very w d phase one was taking it down here these two was taking it down presentant street and then to East Street oh there oh okay so where East goes to Morgan here's Morgan Street here so that was district one so you're going to tie into district one bring it down Pleasant Street bring it to 202 okay the question I was the plan the do number 12415 12415 I think I have the plan could you send that to us we can look and see if they have a time frame of because I know it said when we first looked at it is going to be completed in6 but I think that's I don't think that's just five corners I think that's school well no because School Street would have its own number well they have a location one and location two okay of the same number right I think it's the same number yeah so it doesn't to and we can take a look at it more in depth and see what the time frame is or at least maybe have a conversation with the project manager and find out when they anticipate five corns to be done than you good thank you now the MW project that you were looking to that was different right you were looking into we were looking at there was a article uh put out that they want to increase the amount of water sale from the and we're going to look at see if we could apply to be able to get water from there now so how they that's where they get their water right from quav District Two gets it from quaven chicki gets it from quaven there's one under town where does district one get the water Lithia Springs I believe oh really I did believe they liia spring interesting I didn't know that and what's the South restant right here on 202 for extra water maybe it's a second one for them I don't know just a hold over now is there someone that you contact to see if we can be we just need to get a hold of the office and see if if we can and try and get a figure I Got a Name some mot just Jessica got dead but no number there huh well these are all from Chief oh okay let me just keep looking I might have it on the um mot that you sent us might be in one of the small sections and small writing like I I think it's project number one 12 that 124 number okay because when I do police detail billing that's the number I have to put on the building okay so that may be the project number for okay and did you already reach out to the office for the MW or we still have to no I still have to okay and then the dredging as I said last time that's still on hold because we're still waiting for funds to be available I know our Representatives Dan Cary and Mindy job or looking into seeing what type of funding they can we can get but we missed the round of freshwater dredging it closed in the I think it was in January the only one I found when I looked in the fall was saltwater drudging but um there was one that came out in January and I missed it we went see it and I was looking at it another one well infrastructure but I think they really want to put that work toward of cranberry box in Easter State there was one in there I can't remember the name of it but I was reading about it and then they said they're looking mainly to do that down in eastern but it looked like something that we could possibly have done for but it's a Waterway look I was looking at it it's a Waterway we'll just have to keep looking and keep our eyes open maybe they'll offer it again in January summer January or um time frame and then the goals for fiscal year 2025 so we should share this with Glenn um if this is your only okay I was going to say I can do it to Chris and you can email it to everyone for because we'll table that until Glenn's here for discussion okay so do you want to send us um the goals that you came up with or send it to Chris and then he can send it out to us for our next meeting is there any of them that you want to just State tonight or yeah discussion too because it is getting it's totally up to you uh well a lot of it is just uh things that I've discussed thinking about what we can do to help our needs in town as far as website needs the website of course the MS everybody wants those right we know that already um one thing uh like a how-to area for any anyone looking to pay a bill we build a house or get a permit or process for a pool or business or anything like that so they could just maybe read a list on the website and say okay I need to check these items off yeah before trying to sit in front of a bunch of boards with little information or not knowing what they need to put for then they could if there was a checklist they could go by um obviously to be a place where people can educate themselves um update forms and try to streamline them so we can just do on the Cody is trying to do but as I said it's kind of to catch up on yeah um possibly have links from the town website that connect to other areas like the SCH police spoken about volunteers I had arrest for Park improvements and we can do for that um could we do we ever offer the parks to other towns for that though like um you know like we could leave here and go park North you want the red space there has there ever been an option for that to let people coming come in town like say from South yeah they're not they just an application a different fee they don't get the resident they get a non-resident fee okay that was one of the things I was thinking that might be a how to how to like if you put it down how how do you rent the uh Pavilion or the Gazebo or Y or the kitchen or the bathrooms believe that's out there under the D Frank Park is it what page okay maybe I just I don't think it has the application it has the fee schedule probably all the stuff you need to fill up but you have to go to do Park all right yes maybe that's one so it's under the department and then the rest of what I put together was just um other fees and other parts you know we consider raising fees to try and BR a little more Revenue in the town after residents but the residents all right yeah so send that list to Kathy and Chris and then we can discuss it with um Glenn at our next meeting so I know our next meeting was scheduled for July 29th because I am on vacation um the third week of July and we had decided as a board that next week is too close so to spread it out a little bit because it's usually the 1 and the 3rd so um looking ahead at August um our meetings are usually the 1 and the third so I just want to make sure that we are um that everyone can do it depending on vacations and so forth so our August meetings would be the 5th and the 19th if we go by schedule we would have on and the 18th yeah because other but we would have it double right because July 29th and then August 5th good and then August 2nd Chris for September is Labor Day so do we want to go to that to Tuesday the 3D hold on on I'm trying to get August in okay yeah you go ahead give me a sec and actually as I said that September 3rd is the gravel pet dedicated to that so never mind scratch that was a separate one by itself y but we're looking at the nth 23rd because there's five Mondays in September that me I yes because we already had a meeting for the third right the third was for the gravel permit y then we're going to do the 9th and 23rd as our regular meetings I'm turn there sh J last year um in September it's popping up that we did budget meetings but we'll talk that later after we get through August right budgets were done I think we started discussions till September right or we would no does budget usy or do I think it done November okay we may have done November December I don't know why it popped up like that right so those dates are good for you so August 5th and 19th and then we'll go September 3rd is its own meeting and then we have September 9th and 23 all right do you have anything else you want to discuss next time besid on the agenda so far so on the 29th we'll make our executive session at 5:30 with a regular meeting at 6:30 and an appointment with um the IB ibp thank you ipn International Brotherhood of police officers local number 351 all right so I will entertain a motion to end the me I make a motion to adjourn Mee second that motion any further discussion discussion all in favor I thank you