24 go County County session all right please join me and uh in the pledge please presentation and then folks are going to be able to ask questions afterwards so we got two preeminent authorities uh hersel venard and Jeff Little John and I don't know who's going first if herel is Hershel is the former uh Secretary of the Florida D so he's pretty knowledgeable about this stuff so I'll turn to OB thank you Mr Hammond again my name is hersel Vineyard Jeff Little John and and we did have the honor and privilege of running the Florida Department of Environmental Protection we represent company it's a technology company in the Wastewater space that that deals this by the name of on-site performance and that's why we're here uh on on our part so why are y'all here um we're here because our state water quality testing shows that uh Indian Lagoon is impaired for feal and so that means that the fish You' pull out of there the oysters you take out of there if you get grandkids swimming in there they're swimming in your NE neighbor septic tank juice that's why we're here um and to put it bluntly but I mean this is what we deal with every day and and and Gul county is not the only County that is dealing with this issue right now we've got 2.9 Million septic tanks in the State of Florida serves about a third of our population so we've got seven or eight million people that are dependent upon septic tanks uh right now we've got over 30 counties in the State of Florida of our 67 counties that under right now are under an order from D to deal with Wastewater issues primarily coming from septic tanks so this is something that we're going to have to face one way or the or or another as a state because we got this feal issue the nutrient issue all over the state and d and the legislature are trying to address that so right now Gul county is not subject to that order um but it's coming I think the closest County uh to uh to Gul that is under this order on how to deal with our waste issues are is uh is wulla County they're spending a a ton of money on traditional uh sewer running lines and to to people's homes um that that's not the solution that we represent it's fine in certain circumstances but the state's spending about $70,000 per home to connect to traditional sewer if it's available uh and so right now the only solutions are traditional sewer uh or our technology at on-site performance which is a third or fourth of the price so I'll stop Mr Lil John's a professional engineer and can also address the technology uh good evening Commissioners we appreciate your time this afternoon uh my name is Chef Little John I'm a professional engineer uh in the State of Florida I'm a I'm a native Floridian um and uh I'm a native Panhandle guy I'm from Tallahassee and I I work for Hershel Vineyard when he was the secretary um under governor Scott um septic tank as Cal mentioned uh septic tanks are a problem that we're dealing with in Florida and what I love about this company is we have developed a technology here in Florida so it's homegrown technology it was tested here uh in in Lake County Florida uh in 2017 we went through a four-year pilot study with d where we had to do sampling of this test unit and at the end of that we got um High marks and got our very first uh Municipal permit and our very first grant after that and we've been servicing uh Lake County Florida and the City of Apopka in Orange County uh since 2020 and what that means is uh we have grant funding like yall have here we have a a state permit that authorizes the use of this technology and we have been servicing our customers you know to to their satisfaction and meeting homeowners needs uh We've we've had expanded and and uh and repetitive you know repeat grants from the state to do to enlarge these programs and in in the in Lake County Florida we are uh the county passed an ordinance that allows anybody in the county to convert to this system through a through a similar retrofit kind of program a voluntary first come first serve program and um and and this type of technology in this type of program has a lot of advantages if you're trying to help people that want to get off septic tanks have an option that can be provided by you know by a government service they can they can sign up for it they don't have to worry about maintaining it after after they've signed up just like if you're connected to a a central sewer line back to a sewer plant you just flush the PO the your toilet and pay the pay the sewer bill so it I think homeowners that that have options uh like this option we've seen that in the other other uh communities in Florida that have adopted similar programs and and it is an option I think that's something that's that uh I'm happy to see Gul County adopting a similar approach uh homeowners will have the option to keep their septic tank I mean this isn't a mandatory program um homeowners will have options if they want something that isn't this technology they can buy a different piece of technology that meets uh the state's nutrient uh requirements if they if they choose to upgrade but but those come with responsibilities and then the third option and that's what we're presenting is is is an option to convert to a a municipally owned system in this case Gulf County owned and operated system or and program where they transfer their their obligations for their wastewater treatment to this program and then after that it it again like a connecting to a regular sewer it means you have no other ongoing Financial or regulatory responsibilities and I I think homeowners like that when they have options and when they have an option that that can unburden them from from any ongoing responsibilities um the uh I I've seen some questions from the last um uh the last board meeting uh and so I'd like to reserve the rest of my time and maybe help answer questions from either the commission or from from homeowners but appreciate you sending the questions in advance and looking forward to a good discussion all right thank you sir uh Commissioners y'all got any questions before I go back to Mr Hammond and then go to the public I I just like to go to the public let's go to the public okay all right all right uh anyone in the public when you come before the board just make sure you you state your name and address in the uh in the microphone please and uh we're going to try to limit it down so we can get as many as possible um questions so they can answer as many as possible that's fish I knew you was going to be first well I figured I'll take all the slings and arrows and then everybody else will survive um I'll be real brief since we only have an hour which kind of surprises is me and I think um we're probably going to be doing this multiple times then if we only have an hour today um I think in general everybody in Indian pass is real happy state your name add oh sorry Rob fiser 180 South Neptune Street in Indian pass than sir um I think everybody in Indian pass is real happy that you guys are taking a look at this uh everybody is for cleaner water everybody is for better septic systems I think in general we just think this is a little too fast and a little too early given the information that we have which at this point isn't very much we have uh quite a few knowledgeable people in our community though and they've done one heck of a research job in the last couple of weeks and what we're finding and I'm not an expert on any of this so I'm going to State this and I could be incorrect if I'm reading the information that I'm getting wrong what we're finding is that just about all of our information is in conflict with the information that's being presented to us so far um I'll give you for instance we have we've got information and and someone else probably talked to this because I wasn't the one that did any of this um we've got information from the Florida Department of Agriculture that actually says the Lagoon is much better off today than it was back in 1981 I mean we've got we've got charts that show that the uh feal coliform count is down all across the Lagoon all across the 40 years uh we've got information that says the state actually has approved more than just one company that provides this system uh we've got information that the state has approved uh companies that provide the proponents more than just one company that provides the the components of these systems um we've got information from people up in Waka and in I'm going to probably pronounce this incorrectly o opapa opapa um that they're not happy with the system once they got installed uh theyve run into problems and they're not happy with the system that they have so we gather all that information together we look at it we go why don't we take a step back here and get a little bit more research done gather a little bit more information it may be perfectly fine uh it may be the answer to all of our prayers but at this point in time it makes all of us incredibly nervous that we're being kind of pushed to a to an answer that may not be the the right answer with that I'm going to let other people talk because I know they have a lot of questions and you've seen me plenty so thank you all right thanks sir do you want to respond yes sir just turn your microphone on thank you Mr chairman um if if this is the format you'd like I I I think I would like it uh to be able to respond to to folks individually as they come up I think it would help um I mean I'm taking notes if you'd like to do it any other way but um Mr fiser your uh your your your comments about uh potentially other companies being able to provide the service I want I do want to make sure because there is a lot of confusion out there which category of wastewater treatment we're talking about because there are this is a highly regulated business as you can imagine um the uh this the system that we are um being permitted under is called a distributed wastewater treatment system as opposed to uh Advanced treatment units or performance-based treatment systems and I I saw some from some of the questions from last time that there seems to be some confusion about performance-based versus distributed waste water and there are a lot of similarities a performance-based treatment system is engineered it's uh it's designed for an individual uh application you know either a home or a business or or a community um they have they were historically regulated by the Department of Health and the reason they were regulated by the Department of Health is they were a large septic tank an engineered septic tank that maybe has other treatment components in it to achieve performance criteria but they were regulated by the Department of Health um the distributed wastewater treatment system is regulated by the Department of Environmental Protection like a conventional domestic wastewater treatment facility which is regulatory vernacular for a waste water plant so if you're in you know downtown appalachicola and you're serviced by the appalachicola Wastewater facility with a conventional underground collection system that takes it to a central plant where it's treated by licensed operators and then discharged you know the clean water is discharged in the environment that's a domestic wastewater treatment facility this equipment the reason why it's novel The reason why it's it is still the first of its kind in the marketplace is it has the same treatment technology as the city of of of Apple colas but it shrunk down in a very small form factor um it would fit you know in this area you know right here in front of the podium right it's it's a little bit larger than a septic tank but is a but is a very small treatment plant right the reason we can get it that small it isn't the miniaturization part of it it was really the control and being able to effectively treat Wastewater in such a small form factor means you have to have a lot of um comp computing power over what's going on inside that small plant because in a in a large Plant you have you have people that can observe everything in a small plant uh unless you're going to have a person station in everybody's yard watching it you have to have a computer remotely observe everything that's going on which computers can do very efficiently now and I I'll address the cellular thing in a minute but but then you have a a human that oversees everything so you have a professional licensed wastewater operator the same type of lure that the appach cola's plan operator has to have and and they're overseeing all this miniature remote control equipment and they're seeing it all on a single U uh operating system right so they can a license operator can see one or 10 or 100 or a thousand or 10,000 and and from their computer see how everything is going inside these little miniature Wastewater plants this is the first time this type of Technology has has been you know um demonstrated in the marketplace here in Florida uh this is the third community that would have access to this technology so it it is pretty new and that and that's so I understand the confusion between the different types of Regulation but this is not regulated as a performance-based treatment system and it's not regulated as a an advanced treatment unit those are both different variations of a septic tank this is not a septic tank this is a miniature w waterer treatment plan and two more quick uh topics is is picking up on what he said we are the only distributed wastewater treatment company that's licensed in the State of Florida nobody else has been able to meet the criteria that we have so there there are not there's not another company that does what we do and and I I tell you what I hope that the water quality in this area continues to improve but we just learned before this meeting that on Wednesday the Department of Agriculture is going to close the uh the the oyster harvesting in the lagoon because of poor water quality so while look our life's work is water quality we hope for that but it's not here yet right all right anyone else want to come up for the board hey chair chairman I have two forms can we get those yeah and let me let me address the form so we don't I two people already filled out the forms but you don't have to have a form today but we'll go ahead and take the two forms of of the two people that filled in Mary Freight tag hello Commissioners and thank you for coming so we can learn more about this um is it okay if I ask a question and then get the response right away rather than yes St name sorryy FR 26 14 Indian Pass road you can you can do it that way you can ask a question yes ma'am um so some of the concerns that come out of um apaka are noise vibration and what shows up in your yard can you talk about any of that with your system uh yes ma'am is it Okay we okay thank you um I would like to to know more like specifically if you're talking to anybody that has our equipment specifically there's only 30 of them so it's we don't have a a significant number deployed but we have 30 folks who have these units in the city of Apopka and and I've met with I can't say I've met with 100% of them but I've met with a lot of them and I've been to just about every home that has one and uh I have not heard of any vibration noise or smell complaints of any kind from those folks and and neither have I and we've had we've been to many of their homes uh some of them have opened them up for ribbon cutting because a lot of the elected officials that are focused on clean water are celebrating that and and now they're they've got another million dollars I think from the state to to expand it to expand the program I and and I'm I'm not I don't want to dispute what you're hearing but I do I I suspect that um well I know that we are uh under a lot of scrutiny anytime you introduce something new in a Marketplace there are potentially disrupted companies that provide similar services or whatever and so I have heard a lot of things thrown out there including some of the things that you know that you're mentioning um I would love to show you one and let you let anybody here come visit one um we we can probably get you in contact with people that have them and can give you personal experiences so you're not listening you know through a a a representative of the company but let me just describe very briefly what if you if you decide to do one of these what what will happen is you'll get you'll get your old septic tank removed and you'll get this new unit installed underground at your at your home inside the unit uh are three pumps and a blower motor and and and sensors and then on the side of your home is a computer and a and a cellular device that connects to the internet and and then and then on the other side of that the operators that are observing everything are sitting in right now they're sitting in patka Florida but um as we deploy more in the Panhandle we'll eventually have somebody here in the Panhandle um but but they can be overseen remotely uh what's happening inside the unit is a computer is is measuring how much waste water is coming in from the home and then it is isolating a batch of waste water and then adding air to it and then recirculating that with a pump recycling it back to the front and then doing that again and it'll do that as many times as it as it can before it discharges the the the addition of air keeps the the unit from going septic and that word septic is a word that describes a smell and a process right it when when bacteria that live in all of our guts um run out of oxygen uh they will they will produce sulfur dioxide and and methane which which we can all smell that can that's the rotten egg smell or the or the Wastewater smell that sometimes you'll smell if you go near Wastewater plants um the solution to that smell is to keep the the bacteria that live inside the system that treat the Wastewater keep them happy which means keep them oxygenated and when they're given enough oxygen they'll convert all that waste into into beneficial byproducts nitrogen gas carbon dioxide water um in a in a in aerobic process which means in a in the presence of of oxygen they'll do that without generating any of those noxious smells that sulfur that methane smell and so by running the pumps and the and the blower through this waste water and then having that that technician that's constantly observing this to make sure that it's working right that's a really important part if if the blower breaks the unit will go septic and you'll start to get smells and that can happen in a in a in a type of system that isn't overseen that isn't continuously monitored continuously observed to make sure it's working these units are continuously observed to make sure that they're working so we know that those blowers are working and that keeps the waste call it fresh which eliminates the smells as far as vibrations and things like that these are very small pumps uh these are pumps that you could get out um they're submersible pumps you could get it out of a Granger catalog so so these are not big high capacity pumps that you might think about for a lift station that that pumps uh waist through hold in your hand he's a small they're the the pumps that are inside this unit are are pretty small so I'm surprised to hear about the noise or the vibration um and they're underground they're they're they're underground the the blower sits under a cover and it takes air from uh from inside the control panel so it and there's no vents to the surface all the venting of the unit goes back through the waistline back into the home and up the up the vent stack above the roof line so we have we have not received any odor complaints or any noise complaints that I have ever heard of uh from any of our customers hey Jeff let let me ask something while Mar's up here uh wulla County was referenced uh do you all have units in wulla no sure soone you okay that's what I want that's true there there are um Advanced septic tanks in waca and there are performance-based treatment systems in wulla but we don't have any of our equipment in in waca go ahead Miss mayor this is a and I am representing many of the neighbors here this is a crazy question but um I was told that medicines like if you're on antibiotics continually for a chronic infection or chemotherapy agents can disrupt that bacterial system and cause trouble uh is that and I did look this up and New Mexico State University in 2016 had a Wastewater management for tribes paper and they did exactly that print bacteria you know could could be influenced by antibiotics chemotherapy or dialysis yes ma'am that that's that's absolutely true um we have had disruption of our of of our treatment process uh a couple of times we've had responses and okay so so this actually does remind me that we did have a response to an odor complaint from a homeowner um and we visited the plant and pulled the hatch cover off and everything inside it it was it was very nasty and what we learned because we we went and took a sample to the lab and had it tested is the homeowner put a lot of oil in grease like cooking grease um and it disrupted the the biological process and there were also chemical solvents and so the bacteria couldn't deal with the grease it died and so you had grease and dead bacteria and it and it made a smell now I know that homeowner didn't complain about it that's why when when you asked about complaints I didn't this memory wasn't triggered um we actually uh pumped that homeowner's tank out spent a lot of time with them talking about the things that you should not ever flush down the toilet whether you're at a regular septic tank or connected to a a large city Wastewater Plant or one of our things you shouldn't be putting that much oil and grease nor solvents down the drain um and that happens at large publicly owned treatment plants where if you've got say a manufacturer that does a slug of waste solvent down there and it kills the bugs actually D does an enforcement action against them y y that is a concern in our area because we have a lot of rentals and if you're a homeowner in this area you know that you can't flush even things that say flushable wipes you can't put grease down your trap you can't put you know excess bulk of vegetable scraps and things down your garbage disposal but when we have huge homes rented out by people from a city on a traditional system they don't really understand that so you know I'm wondering have you ever deployed one of these systems in a house that sleeps 20 or 30 no we've got a a church uh fairly large church that we've got a unit in and and an assisted living facility and an assisted living facility in uh Nassau County Florida with north of Jacksonville then you have to understand with with the 247 monitoring if there's a problem we're going to we will probably find out you know if there's a there's an issue that that the the computer can detect and the sensors can detect uh we can able to roll a truck to hopefully resolve that where if you've got a septic tank and somebody flushes the waste solvent down the drain or other stuff they're not supposed to do then then there's zero treatment in a septic tank No One Ever Knows and it winds up going into on your Beach and you know we all are very concerned about water quality when we looked at the um Department of Agriculture you know they say if you get eimon AR rain in appalachicola the the you know Indian Lagoon will be closed or in blunstone it will close so it's almost like you know we have influences not just from our septic tanks but from areas outside with runoff and things like that I think all of us would like to improve the quality of you know the Indian Lagoon we tend to be kind of the you know environmentalists of Gulf County I think um so let's talk about price because that will be and and let me let me uh say to your comment we appreciate your commitment to water quality and the reason why we're here right now is the county is being offered $1.6 or S million doar to provide this at uh little or no charge to the residents and if Gulf County doesn't want it then it can go to another County that is focused on water quality um yeah go ahead I didn't answer your antibiotic question I didn't want you thinking later or if this is recorded that guy dodged it um insufficient uh quantities an antibiotic or even that antimicrobial soap that we all get in our Dawn soap nowadays it says antibi um that could kill or reduce the health of the of the uh the biota that's inside the Wastewater Plant but we haven't found that it's significant enough that it that it completely disrupts the Wastewater process even in an assisted living facility where a lot of folks are medicated um I we we uh monitor the call the bug the bug population that the bacteria population inside the Wastewater Plant we're checking it constantly and if it starts to to go down one of the reasons could be some kind of die off and we will Reed if necessary which means add more bacteria to the plant so we have not seen big issues on that but we I I I think mostly because it's just at such small quantities and it's remember it's also diluted by your showers and your dishwashers and everything else that's going on so it's really a pretty small um contribution in in the in the entirety of the Wastewater that that leaves your home every day the the toilet waste water is a relatively small piece which is where which is where those those would come you know the the medicines would come from okay I hope that helped thank you she also asked about chemotherapy I haven't heard anything I suspect it's the same I any any kind of chemical that what it to be L volume to I think so yes sir but but if if something kills the bacteria population in a Wastewater unit we will replace the the popul we we'll replace it so the customer doesn't have to buy red EGS from the store like traditional no sir so red X and no no red X and yeast it it doesn't B it actually is fine it's actually fine we'll we'll have a list of things you know that are okay to flush and not okay to flush and we even don't mind U you know vegetation from a whatever from a garbage disposal the the meats and greases and things are bad but vegetation is fine okay or vegetables so in a previous meeting in January uh you estimated an $88 million price tag if we were to run sewer to Indian pass um and that this can be you know 1/3 or 1/4 of the price um so the price per month this this full program was $8 million it was estimate it was Triple that to run so oh wow okay were like 25 one yeah okay wow okay um so the price per month per resident I know in Lake County they are assessed $55 a month is that which you anticipate the price tag here in Gulf County I'm not sure but I think that would be reasonable to to you know in that range I think a popka is paying 45 and Lake decided 55 I think in that range is probably a a reasonable estimate but it would be up to your we don't set rates uh we only uh uh send the pricing for for service and then the you know our partners decide what the rates need to be in Lake County they have a 3% um increase minimum every year is that set by you or is that set by the county that was set by us well through a negoti contract with Lake County and Apopka and Lake County both have that 3% or CPI uh adjustment each year and and that's not by the way that that is really typical and and I think even maybe entitled by law for all public Wastewater utilities that they they can do a uh essentially an inflation index and the Public Service Commission actually publishes uh an inflation index every year for water and wastewater utilities and a lot of communities just Peg their increases to that Public Service Commission report every year and and it ranges from you know a percent or two all the way up to seven or 8% sometimes but but but that's set by somebody other than us yes ma'am and and The Proposal with these gentlemen is that that they would not be doing any of the billing this would be built by the water department the county would have complete control over set all the prices so again that would they contract out in other counties they would not be contracting out just have you determine what you think the price would be as far as a price increase every year no but but again if you look at your what the water bill is I think we' we've increased one time since we've own the system the gist is this we're going to do the billing and set the price we pay them the monitoring fee which is in the4 40 something dollar range per unit per month and that's for the licensed Monitor and they come out once a year they have to test so many every month type deal if there's any problems it's covered there's no cost to the to the homeowner but again the County's not making any money off the water system the County's not intending to make any money off of this either just break even okay that's the game plan okay um so it looks like there's this grant money available and in other counties whatever vendor the homeowner chooses is would get $10,000 to hook up that system is that accurate no ma'am I don't think so in every Community program we're involved in um these are run as community-led septic to sewer programs not vendor Le um you pick from an approved vendor on the list you pay the vendor gets reimbursed or the homeowner gets reimbursed by the state that's that's for uh the septic tank upgrade programs where you're going from a regular septic tank to an advanced septic tank this is not that so this type of program the money flows from the state to the community the community hires the contractor that does all the work the homeowner does not get involved in any of the capital side of this the homeowner when they if they decide to participate the homeowner joins the program and agrees to pay the monthly bill but there there hasn't ever been any cash outlay from a participating homeowner in any of the community ities were involved in okay um let me just say one thing that because it's not just a flat price there's a chance that some folks drain Fields won't have to be replaced so they won't be the need to pay that expense so that saves money and the depending on the size depending on if you've got a real small yard that you're sharing you may may team with your with your neighbor depending on have to have electrical upgrade based on what your electrical situation is on your house if it's real old you'll have to have electrical upgrade if it's a newer house it's got a disconect you will not so the price varies greatly the more you have to do the more expensive but again this program has presented is locking key so your house may be $10,000 your neighbor's house may be 15,000 but you still get the same thing the same monthly fee everybody's the same and and no usage whereas like city sewer the more you use water-wise the higher the cost is this is a flat price okay I think the next um concern that we have is reliability it's funny cuz I walked in and I saw the God We Trust sign and it reminded me of Dr Carol um who I worked with and she had a sign that said In God We Trust all else bring data like in other words if you want to make a significant change to this organization if you're going to use taxpayer resources we have to make sure that there's research behind it and that it works um so I know that this has been tested I actually saw a video of you on the internet oh boy from a few years ago um so in and then I decided you know I'm going to check to make sure that people are happy with what they have um and on your website you have the town of Lake Hamilton so I contacted the town and I said how many deployments has on-site done in the town and it's only one which made me a little nervous because it's listed as a partner on your web page and then the next partner is the city of apaka Apopka and I contacted them said well how many deployments do we have 30 and then we have um the St John's river water Water Management District so I contact them how many deployments do you have the only thing I could find is a commercial application with um in which is swany county of Otter Springs Campground um I found out that Lake County you've been approved in Lake County but the funds were just authorized on January 24th and vusa County are sort of a registered vendor it sounds like they can just pick whoever they would like if they are doing a conversion um Dr Carol also had a model that says sometimes the last Finish First meaning don't jump on the bandwagon you're better off waiting for someone else to go through this learning from what they've gone through and then making a decision I feel really uncomfortable with 31 deployments in those counties that we have launch longevity data since this was just tested up to 2021 and I did read those you know that research it was you know the nitrogen decreased the fecal contamination decreased again I think we're all in support of this but it just makes me really nervous to give up my sanitation system based on that number of deployments in your partner counties J let me ask you this what what is the Buy in what number of people would you have to have for to deploy I don't commissioner I don't think we have a minimum buy in this okay okay that you know I mean it's totally voluntary so and and we've said that from the get-go you but so I I'd like to share a story Otter Springs would be a great one to to well otter is a great story but um when when this program was first announced in a popka uh you had you had some people speak from the audience this is crazy idea why would we ever be the first right because they were they couldn't point to anybody before them they were literally the first um and uh and all all we all we had to say for ourselves is we've been tested by D and they let us do this you know they gave us a permit they gave us they gave you the money and and the the mayor to his credit stood up in front of the the residence and said look if you don't want to do it don't do it but but I want you I want you all to have an alternative to a septic tank because a lot of people in in his community went to him and said I want you to bring sewer to my neighborhood and then you had a lot of other people in his community say I don't want sewer brought to my neighborhood I want to keep my septic tank because I don't want to pay you know the extra money and and this was a this was a middle ground right the people who wanted sewer could get sewer the people who didn't want sewer could keep their septic tank and the 30 volunteers and and I do consider them all Pioneers in this uh only I was telling h on the drive down I think probably only three of them and I'm not picking on anybody now but I think probably only three of them did it for the environment most people did it because the sepy tank was backing up into their home and they had a free alternative and and I I hope that doesn't sound too cynical but people do this because it's in their economic self-interest at a rate 10 times faster than they do it for cleaning up the environment and so I I I think you'll find if you adopt this program that there going to be people that have problems with their septic system and your options at that point are hire a contractor get a new drain field put in you got to meet new code which might mean a a mounded drain field and that might cost you $20,000 and and you have an alternative yes there's a monthly or or an ongoing cost associated with it but the alternative is going to provide uh Wastewater service to your home and you will have no other obligations after you've converted like you don't have to worry about a septic tank backing up into your home or a drain field failing the responsibility gets transferred to to in this case Gul County so I I think what I'm what I'm getting at is if you if if a voluntary program is established people will do it when it's in their interests and if they have a good experience and that is our objective right we want to have a bunch of happy customers because you'll tell your neighbors and then your neighbor will be more likely to to join us and it and it may be in their interest because their septic is failing and this is free money coming to to where they don't have to write a check for $ 15 or $20,000 out of pocket or they may be motivated maybe not everybody motivated by I'm tired of fishing in my neighbor septic juice um uh Mr Hammond mentioned about uh the Swan River Water Management District so in gilr County they had uh an RV camp uh with 100 slips where everybody pulls in RV it was on Otter Springs it was on right around Otter Springs and these 100 RV slips had 25 septic tanks and half the time in the summertime when everybody wants to get and cool off in the spring the people couldn't do it because it had too much feal in it and so they just had to look at the water and they couldn't play in the water and so the swanie River Water Management District realized that's not a great thing and so they funded a large unit actually two large units um given the winter time is not quite as busy and you want to kind of adjust the flow but now we're getting very very good water quality data in that area those people got tired of having to deal with mess in their water okay I think I just have two questions left the big one power outages uh some of us do feel like we live on the edge of civil ization at times um that and cell phone a service because typically would you all agree we're pretty weak with cell phone service on the well the the cell is is the easier answer to to the power so I'll I'll address cell first so we don't use the the cellular antennas that you have in your smartphones um we're we're using commercial uh cellular bandwidth and we can put in large gain antennas if we have a weak cell service at your particular location and we will test the cell service when we when we start to deploy units and so what if I'm hearing is you've got you know weak sell coverage in Indian pass we'll be using the the High Gain antennas um these units don't require they're not streaming Netflix all right they don't require uh high bandwidth even the kind of bandwidth you need to hold the call they're only passing very small packets of data you know from one computer to another computer and what that means is even if the cell coverage is weak and even if it's intermittent the computers will syn up and and keep everything working fine um it may mean when a when an operator wants to log into your particular unit to perform some diagnos diagnostic process it might take 20 seconds to make the sync instead of 10 but the computers you know work that out uh we have never had a system and Gilchrist County is a pretty remote location where we don't have enough cell coverage uh to to to to make the system work um the uh the power side uh is is a little trickier and we realize that that we live in Florida we're going to have hurricanes we're going to have extended periods of time without power so our primary objective is if there is an extended period of power loss that you don't have uh the kind of loss of functionality where you can't flush a toilet right we don't want to have waste backing into a home if you're out of power for a week so these units are designed that uh to operate without power basically like a glorified septic tank so if if today in extended period of power outage you can flush the toilet and it goes away like you've got positive gravity you know running your waste water out to your drain field then after the conversion that will still be the case the reason I said if is some folks live with with mounded drain Fields right in that case you're actually pumping your Wastewater uphill out of your septic tank uphill into a drain field so you probably already have a pump tank which means you have a pump which means you rely on power to move that Wastewater uphill and if that doesn't happen it can back up into your home or you can't flush the toilet your lowest fixture it won't drain so a lot of people that are in that situation will have a will have a generator because they don't want to worry about waste water backing up into their home during period you know when your pump tank gets full and and people in that situation will normally have an alarm that says your pump tank is full and that means your pump is normally broken or clogged and you got to you got to call somebody um before it starts to back up uh we don't like that situation we'd prefer that that never existed and we try to minimize that we won't we won't add we won't add that to your house if you don't already have it but if you if you have a traditional septic tank the worst case that happens with with our our uh technology is it's a septic tank still now what we found is is when there's both all these units have capacity and so if a hurricane hits and you're out of power for 3 days what we found is there's no water that leaves a tank at all because if you have no power you're not washing clothes you don't have your kids going to ball games and so you got tons of uniforms you're not your dishwasher is down so it's really just your shower and your your toilet and so what we we find is and I'm talking from the environmental standpoint you're not having anything leave the tank going into the environment okay I thought one last question that was on my sheet easement so how does that work do we are we signing an easement that's going to be up to your your uh local government um what we've I think our experience has been is it's a license which is not a recorded easement like where where uh we have both kinds now both both kinds but a license could be just you know that's the homeowner giving permission to the local government to enter the premises for the purpose or their subcontractors or contractors for the purposes of of uh doing whatever the required maintenance is much like what you probably have when you sign up for electricity you you've granted whoever your service provider the ability to come on and make sure that or or or gas company or or your water probably they what we found is I think you'll do the same thing that your water distributor does so Lake County does require easements they're passive access easements over the property they are recorded it's not a meets and Bounds description over one part of your yard it's a blanket we're granting access to to the county to perform this service as in exchange for receiving the service um the city of popka chose to do it with a license model like herel just described so there there's at least two legal mechanisms for providing access but it is a requirement of the state that access is provided for ongoing maintenance because it's not it's not homeowner owned equipment it's not homeowner operated equipment think of it more like the your your power meter on the side of your home you know nobody even thinks about I want to crack that thing open and make sure it's oiled up or or works right right that's that's the utility Department's property and if you break it you pay for it right you break it you you buy it um this equipment you should think about it the same way it's underground most of it the little bit that's on the side of the home there's nothing user serviceable inside um there no alarms there's no siren if anything breaks it's all remotely monitored so a technician is going to know about a problem before you will and if you want to be called before somebody shows up we can we can make calls before somebody shows up but a technician needs access to maintain the equipment because it is is it's County it will be county-owned equipment okay thank you very much sorry to point at y'all thank you Mr Mayor Casey uh Elliot Barnett hey how you doing Elliot Barnett uh 196 South Oak Street out there on Anan pass um I'm I'm fairly new to the issue of owned a house out there I've been coming out here forever got owned a house for about a year now and uh so apologize if I'm asking questions that already been you've been down the road um who who has the board relied on as their technical consultant um I understand that this is a kind of a One-Stop shop deal there's nobody else that's offering this and so you're really heavily relied on their technology their technical knowledge who's the board really relying on as their consultant to advise them from a technical engineering standpoint that that this is an effective you know not you that you're not being sold about the bill of goods I'm not saying you are I I I'm an engineer I know this stuff works but I'll I'll take the blame clay and I have been working on this for about two years okay uh we have a couple consultant Rett ciphers the former head of the Water Management uh we' of course I've known Mr hersel for long time and Jeff as well have complete confidence I mean being the former head of D the Springs situation where they had a serious problem that was closed down multiple times a year every summer and when the system gets put in if have not been shut down since sold me on the on the issue and the state giving them the only permit again this is fairly unique but again this is so much greater than any of these other systems what what comes out of this you can irrigate with so again it's cheaper it helps the environment uh all of the things that have been brought up about the grease and all the things same thing with the seans at the city have there's none of that stuff so again that's what we that's what we put in this is the best system out there on the market right now we believe right but you've not had an independent consultant advise you in that respect other than the fact that both the Water Management District who's given us the money and D who gave them the money have both checked off on it so I don't know of a better independent uh group than the those two agencies okay so it sounds like from what I've read and listened to past meetings it it sounds like the um the the main driver behind this is either nitrates or FAL coliform right in the bay or in drinking water wells is that a safe accurate assessment that that you know from septic you got nitrates in the drinking water or you've got FAL C form in the bag it's that's what's triggering the algo blooms in certain parts of the state so so is there an actual study that shows a direct correlation between Indian P septic tanks and red tide or increased nitrates in groundwater and what my point is what kind of just to simplify it is you know if you said your your truck was missing and I said go change the tires and you just went and change I ain't going to fix the problem that your truck's missing right so that's my concern is is that we're just putting we we've got a problem maybe with closing the bay for oystering and we're all throwing $8 million at putting new septic tanks in well if that doesn't fix anything then what we just threw $8 million away right so is there a direct study some kind of a correlation between septic tanks and IND pass causing the problem so I will say that we we uh because we're regulated just like a a normal wastewater treatment plant we submit monthly water quality uh samples from uh certain individual units that we have deployed we've got an obligation to submit actual water quality data from those units and so if we know that a unit emit nitrates and in in the case of Apopka for example the units that are are uh deployed are right there on top of wakaa Springs right and I understand that if you and you can meet your permit all day long but if your effluent wasn't causing the problem it didn't fix the problem well I could tell you in wakaba for example they used a uh a die study at a County Park and literally they flush the toilet and the Isotopes that came from that County Park toilet uh popped up in their Springs and that's that's great but that's not well it's not great which is why we're here that's not any pass that's not any pass either so it's really irrelevant let me ask you this Jeff and I think from a the state is going to push this Mr Barnett is not going to be us and I think from a point of red tide we've had red tide here yeah absolutely I've experienc I think it's from a whole I think the state's looking at it as a whole not just one little area and that's why I say is there a study that says septic tanks are causing the problem I mean if if it's something else that's causing a problem and we're chasing a yeah I don't know that I'm not but that's what triggered this order from D that's been issued to 30 plus counties already okay but Gulf County GF county is not one of them that's been issued an order right the the the state and and listen I'm I'm not somebody that likes to read that the government wrote a report therefore I should believe it that's not me but but I'm an engineer you're an engineer the the the facts are when you exceed the assimilative capacity of your of the soil and groundwater uh to absorb pollution that it will escape that area and and exceed you know will will leak out into the environment you've got a sufficient quantity of septic tank in close enough proximity to each other in a high enough groundwater condition at Indian pass to to to uh to achieve that leakage into the environment now has there been a study a cause and effect study of of Indian pass in the water quality in in the lagoon I don't know but there are sufficient septic tanks uh where there have been multiple conclusive studies where you have that many septic tanks in close proximity to groundwater you're going to get nitrates San feal you know leaving your community and go going but every one of those sub tanks was permitted by the county and the D I totally understand and and it it it probably wasn't any one of them right and that's and that's the that's the mentality of the state when it issues a permit oh this one isn't going to hurt the environment but but the state doesn't always think about what about the the 300 yeah what about the 300 septic tank highrise it's got 40 people sleeping in it that's one of my concerns from what I've heard tonight is ground with no septic tanks out on the point right where where is it all going so the the the I can control my septic tank cuz I live there and I'm not flushing you know grease down it and Drano and bleach but when somebody comes and stays the week at somebody else's house you know it's somebody else's place and they're just going to flush anything just to get rid of it so that that's a concern um has has the county done any kind of sampling of drinking water wells to know that we have a nitrates problem in drinking water from anybody's groundwater well out on the pass so there's no no correlation between septics causing a nitrate problem anybody's drinking water we could probably find some information if you'd like to look and we're all our the city the county and all the counties around us are remember of Rural Water associations and when I first heard about it like three years ago because I have a package plant and they said this is going to happen go ahead and get prepared for it and um so uh Florida Rural Water is an association that's paid out of dues from counties small Municipal uh plants water plants um and there's an um uh one of the Commissioners in Liberty County is what they call he's our circuit Rider he comes through here and checks ours because we have monitoring Wells on our facilities okay um is that water that you're ground water that's you're using as a drinking water source no it's in a commun center of a community that's a perk Pond okay okay uh they also do some stuff you know inside the city limits um but you might want to and I don't you know have a he's told me about it and I don't have it sitting here in front of me I was trying to find it the other day but they got a very good website just like the one that I told Rob about with the state U but they do do that and they're they're not a they're an association that's a non for-profit you know they do stuff I mean um yeah okay well let me let me keep I got a few questions here so in the sake of time I'll I'll be quick will the new systems be held to a performance-based standard for FAL reduction or nitrate nitrogen reduction and you know like in other words is there going to be like a 70% reduction or do you have to meet 10 PPM or any effluent or what how how is that going to be regulated controlled understood monitored in in today's regulations the only numeric uh criteria performance criteria that are subject to enforcement are total suspended solids and for what for the effluent that comes out of these treatment units for your system yes sir okay and uh biological oxygen demand okay we do not have a performance standard for feal or nitrate now I know I know you're going to say well what are we doing here um so so I want all you to hear this I I said the current the current iteration of our permits because this is a brand new permitting program there isn't even a rule today that covers this classification of facility if we were a different classification of facility we would have all of those yeah right uh because this is a brand new classification there is not yet a rule when the rule is promulgated we totally expect and we would be happy with a uh a nitrate and a feal performance standard and so what all that translates though to is increased cost because you're going to have to monitor more you're going to have to make sure you're meeting it all right now now we're seeing each other eye to eye we are preparing for that day today so our permits do not have an enforcement limit but we are already monitoring and we are already reporting all of that stuff and here's why are you meet are you yes sir your system meets it yes sir and here here's why we we want to we want to we want to grow our business right we're we're uh we're we're in this uh to be successful right we we're trying we're trying to find a win-win here if we can't demonstrate to the state who is paying for these programs that we are addressing the pollution that they're trying to to achieve then they're not going to issue the next Grant so it's in our financial interests and it's also in our kind of our our corporate you know ethos understood but good water quality means more we're rewarded with more grants but it also means more money the cleaner you want the water you got to spend money no we're already doing that yeah yeah we we're we're at the quality of effluent that a regular Wastewater Plant would have to achieve at at at the same flows so what I think one of the like I've got an existing septic tank and so you know I could take the mindset well my 7 Tank's working fine why am I going to sign up to $50 a month right possibly I would consider doing that if I knew there was some assurance that I'll get on the front end of this and I won't my rate won't go up right so let's say five years down the road a bunch of circuit you you identify you know these circuit boards you have a problem you have to replace half of them I mean that's just real money your company is going to say I have to have more money money and a maintenance fee that's transferred to the to the residents what what kind of an assurance can we get that are you know by signing up for $50 a month today it's not going to be 75 next month or next year or $100 five years from now good word you're probably looking for is an assessment an assessment where they say hey everybody got to pay up just some kind of an assurance that we're not going to be you know paying for this company to be successful well yeah well this is again we're trying to get ahead of the curve because the state for 20 years has been trying to phase out sey tanks so we're trying to get ahead of the curve because they're going to mandate them I mean and if we think that these sep tanks aren't polluting the the bay and the Lagoon then then we're crazy because most of these sepy tanks are Antiquated and they're not working right but tanks are traditionally a very successful means for biological treatment for sewage that's not why the state the state the state spending 10 billion to to to fund these programs because of red tide and whatnot but but getting back to your point our contract with them if if the board so chooses to go forward is going to be if you don't destroy it if you don't run over it if you don't intentionally try to destroy it it's covered it's locking key it's covered so if a circuit board goes out you don't get charged for that if you run a tractor over it and bust it up or dig it up you're going to get charged so so again that's the petition and the good thing you get you get to vote for these folks so they're not going to again I don't think we've mistreated you on the water we I'm not I'm not I'm not saying a 10 here I'm just it's pure money if Parts fail we're going to have to pay for it I mean this company will have to pay for it it's built into our monthly fee and if you're not making money then you're going to have to raise your rates it's it's well the contract with the county has those those caps in it okay every every contract we don't have a contract with the county we would still have to negotiate it but our contracts with the city and the and the count the city of bkin and Lake County Florida have fixed cost escalators every year it's tied to it's 3% or the CPI the utility CPI that's what we can kind of expect it'll be some kind of a inflation based rate increase not just oh crap we bought not an assessment right we bought an egg and now we're going to have to pay for it to recover it okay so on on the response time you know equipment goes out we've we've heard tonight several things something something fails a blower fails what kind of response time can we expect with respect to my house my blower is not working I I'm smelling it when's somebody going to be out here to fix it we'll set that contractually and it depends on the the nature of the failure we've got failure response rates from 24 hours to 96 hours so meaning a a critical component will roll a truck and have somebody out there in 24 hours and and our objective is to to replace the part before any level of service to your home is affected so if it's a the parts that require the fastest response time are the ones that would most quickly disrupt your Wastewater service um you're not going to smell anything changing in the biology of what's Happening inside the unit for 4 days so blower motor is actually on the on the low end of the resp response time compared to one of the primary transfer pumps which you're going to get a replacement in 24 hours and very often the computer will detect an issue before it becomes a complete failure so if they're seeing that the volume of water is not being transferred the way it normally does then we'll know in advance and so we can roll a truck even before there's a failure the the computer is is monitoring pump transfer times current and voltage against the pump rating so if the the pump starts to exceed its rating curve it'll actually flag it while it's still working and our objective is to lower the cost of Maintenance so we can make more money on the maintenance contract right so we're using you don't want to roll a bunch of trucks correct right so when someone's going out for an inspection and we got a pump that's starting to run up against this limits we're going to have a spare pump in the truck so that's done at the same time okay um so and if I understood what I heard tonight it doesn't matter the condition of my existing system like my drain field is crushed and not really functioning well if I sign up you'll come out put a new drain field in that'll be subject to the whatever the County's contract is but yes there's got to be a sufficient amount of uh flow to be able to handle your your water and so we you we typically do a flow test before we make that decision so so one of the things that we again negotiating the County Commission has not approved a contract we don't have a permit but once they accept your existing drain fill it's their responsibility so that's what they're they're dealing so they're either going build your acceptance of my existing system so they got to do the test and and what we're saying is this if if they're not satisfied we're going to put you a new one in the Grant's going to put you a new one in and then they're going to be satisfied because put it in if they accept your existing one they're still responsible so I mean there's there's no risk to you if they choose to take it okay same on the electrical side like my if I've got screw in fuses and you that would drive the cost up but again they're going to make I don't correct the grant pays for it that's right it's a little drop down electrical piece and the power it uses is for a day is about what it takes to make a pot of coffee so you won't won't even notice it on your electric bill thank you thank you sir yes sir come on up we got a commissioner that might have to leave I did have some some questions that were generated I'm John shrer I'm sorry I I own 255 South Palm Street uh and had a few questions I don't want to take too much time my first question is would you be willing to give us Mr John get a little closer to that microphone so we make sure there go would you be willing to give us your email address and be and answer our questions by email yes sir that would be very helpful to us I think um I I assume that you're familiar with this uh Florida Department of Agriculture uh study that Mr fiser has referenced here uh that would suggest that for 40 years the the problem is not as critical as it was are you familiar with that is that is that accurate I'm not familiar with it no sir well we we might want to chase that down some of these Engineers uh and you might want to as well uh that's a concern to me I I'm I'm this is appealing to me because my system is about 35 or 40 years old and so I have to look at it maybe in a different lens than some of these other folks um but I I want to know what the urgency is and then I'd also be interested in knowing uh if only four or five or six or 10 of these people voluntarily sign on what's that going to do for the Lagoon is it really going to have an appreciable effect on it no okay U they'll they'll probably be the one those that gets it for free and then if the the state comes in later on with a mandate it may not the money may not be there well and that that somewhat leads to my next concern and that is if only six or eight of us decide to do this and you got 30 there at this one place uh and then your company fails Count's out of it I'm looking at a defunct Corporation somewhere and I got a mess the county won't be out of it I mean this this system is going to be owned by the county it's our permit they're just a contractor if they fail tomorrow another contract the county will have another contractor so it's again this is this will be a municipal County sewer system countywide now we just we're starting because this is the most critical of the areas but I can foresee this being riverine and and places that that can't get sewer all over the take a look at this and help me you know we need to know if it is that critical and then if it does fail and the county is looking for another provider you're the only game in the state I'm just a little concerned about where the County's going to go to replace you so I'll I'll leave it at that there are somewhat in the form of questions somewhat comments but uh thank you for your time thank you sir appreciate I just have one quick question about the come come on up come on up state your name and address for the record please Mark Evans 111 South seol um you said that if your tile field was bad the county would replace it I'm I'm sorry if your tile field is bad you're talking about drain field drain field if you sign up for this program what whatever you need to have them satisfied that it meets the criteria which would include a new drain field the the county will replace it yes sir okay and your system requires less tile than a traditional yes sir does but it's still going to require m maybe not above the water table may maybe maybe not um great question the uh the the drain field or tile field regulations are based on septic tank effluent quality which which does not receive any treatment just just uh solids removal and the vertical separation to seasonal high water is based on that assumption that the water that's coming into your drain field has received no treatment so that's what that separation is based on um we're traveling under a different set of regulations and we can uh install effluent Disposal Systems as close as 6 in to seasonal high water and so our objective is to minimize the need for amound and one of the ways we can do that is by lowering the effluent disposal to closer to seasonal H water this affluent can be sprayed if you have enough area so if you have a big yard this is this is high enough quality to be sprayed is that maybe not I apprciate but if you if you have you know we we've talked into some new new subdivisions where say they've got like a median or a community center with the Z is and things like that subsurface irrigation subsurface irrigation is is a is a legally authorized disposal method the effluent does have some we do not do uh secondary or tertiary disinfection so that means there's no chlorine contact or no ozone so there we do uh we do reduce feal but we do not eliminate feal in the effluence so it still has to be underground all of our disposal methods have to be underground I just want to make sure the county is going to pick up that tab if I sign up for this I know my tile feels bad it's it's a it's a it's a locking it's a lock and key program it's a lock and key program which means whatever you need initially tell it all and as long as you don't destroy it it would be covered yes sir M Mr Evans of our first 20 Volunteers in Lake County Florida 15 of them have been in catastrophic failure so I I do real that I do I do realize that whenever it rains is when I some some of our some of our we get six inches of rain you know and that that raises that water more than 6 in I can tell you underground water so that's my concern is having a giant Mound uh like my neighbors have now so and I only have so much a so thanks all right thanks sir yes sir yes ma'am come on Colleen Riley 184 South seminal Street just one observation since we've got the Evans who are dire and you've got other people who are questioning um some of the research that Mary fright did came up with a state mandate for 2030 which is about six years away I don't know if that might be something that the county is working up against or looking at this system and trying to get ahead of that mandate but if we could have some type of roll out that would say okay if you volunteer now locking key this is how long you have to sign up for that whether it be six months whether it be a year whichever I think that would go a long way with helping the decision making for the residents and then that way others would be able to say okay well I'm not real sure maybe I don't want to sign up right away but I still have this window of maybe 18 months to 24 months to come in at the tail end and then after two years three years okay sorry you're on your own you now have to pay for it I think that would help people make that decision as well because you've got so many you've got like the Evans with the older system you've got so someone else who's got a new system you've got us who we bought the house we're fine we know we're going to have some problems we've had problems with our pump but maybe not quite yet we don't know we don't want to miss out on that lock and key op opportunity but you know if you're a little hesitant maybe you know you don't you know you don't have to rush to jump in right so if the if the Commissioners working with onsite could come up with kind of that timeline for us just to give us a little more Food For Thought I think that would be very helpful Mike what would is there stipulations on that grant for time frame so my guess is if if the County Commission voted in the next month to move forward with with everything we've got going we're at least six months from have it all our permits and ready to to hook folks on this is not something that again and again I get blasted sometimes we've been working on this for two years but this is not something that's going to happen tomorrow I mean if the County Commission voted at tomorrow's commission meeting to go forward full steam ahead we still we still don't have our state permit we've applied for it we still have don't have a contract with these folks although we're negotiating in good faith about that so again there's going to be plenty of time to sign up we have enough money for about 20% if everybody wanted to sign up today if every single person that's got an existing home on on Indian P today we have about 20% of the money this is this is Phase One of a multiphase program another thing we're not up against that 2030 deadline but we've been fearful about a state mandate eliminating SE tanks especially on the coast for years I mean the fac has fought it back when Comm CFO Patronis was our representative we fought it because again this is a massive problem Statewide and most septic tanks most septic tanks especially if they were put in 15 20 years ago are not working correctly so there's going to be plenty of time but again it's the way I proposed it to the board is first come first serve and then when the money runs out we'll try to get the next trun of money and and again we believe the state is going to continue to fund these they put billions of of dollars in this Statewide and they're going to continue to fund it in the foreseeable future but again there's no hurry to sign up tonight I mean we and and and and again there's going to be plenty of time to make an informed decision and we appreciate everybody's time tonight coming out and this has gone a long way I know you've heard from us before with other developments out on Indian past so I think I can speak for everyone here that this meeting has has gone a long way to ease our minds and give us information and then giving us that extra you know timeline would then you know go even further so we thank you for that yes go ahead BR I just wanted to slip in a question actually for Jeremy so yeah there he is um because it applies to what you just said so it sounds like down the road that this is possibly or probably going to be mandated by the state to convert over septic systems if and when that mandate comes down Jeremy let's say that you're one of the folks that just built a house you just put in a brand new septic system can the state or the county force that person say in 3 to 5 years to convert over and forget their their old system even though their old system is only 2 to three years old well I don't well I'm not going to speculate but I will tell you this that they've done similar things in the past and when they do obviously legislature will roll it in um we we're dealing right now in Gul County and this is just on a federal law that was passed four years ago and it took effect on January 1st but they did it four years in advance so they roll it out so if and when that were to come down the line for small R counties especially because it'll be a hardship to the gulf counties of the State versus the bigger counties there will be a mechanism in there where they'll roll it out they will mandate it and we won't be able to challenge it under 125 so we'll deal with another State mandate but we'll have time to respond to it and obviously prob I would say over several years have an ability to adapt to it yeah because I was going to say I mean what happens when someone says sorry I can't afford to do that but that's but to Michael's point and that's why I think it keeps coming up we're talking about billions of dollars of State funding going into this over a decade and the purpose of that is that they're obviously pushing the envelope pushing the entire state in that direction but they haven't mandated it and that's why these projects these pilot projects are out there to give us Solutions on how we're going to move the needle and move everyone in that direction before they make a mandate of this nature and I think that's why these there's value in the commission discussing it for the last two years is to say we have some funding we have the grant let's see how it takes effect it's voluntary it's not mandatory and it gives Gul County an ability to adapt to it and see how it takes yeah and one thing too this board and past boards have been very very wary of man mandatory anything right uh from garbage to whatever else but but again I mean just right now we've had some arguments back and forth with this city the city wants the county to make it mandatory everywhere there's a sewer line that even on low pressure which we've arguing with the law but the state law requires we think it's just for Gravity that if you're within so many feet of that gravity line you've got to hook on whether you want to or not that's not I mean and that's been state law for quite a while now we argue on the low pressure which is mostly at the cape and St Jill Beach and other places that that does not apply to low pressure but again the city as late as 6 months ago uh has been sending letters and putting things on the water bill that says you've got so long to hook up and if you don't we're going to mandate you doing it now they're going to have a hard time doing that in the county but again the state has been threatening for mandate for at least 20 years and and Jeff just uh made a note of two other where they have go ahead so well so um the state's gone through this mandatory conversion Thing Once to completion in the Florida Keys and if if anybody wants to see what a bunch of upset homeowners look like imagine the conquer Republic you know in full revolutionary you know mode um but it took the it took a long time and the state paid for it like I I think when the state says you know you have something legal and and we've allowed you to have it and now we're telling you you can't anymore I think what you can look to our our our history and some of that is pretty recent um the state has been willing to pick up the tab and this the taxpayers paid hundreds of millions of dollars to get rid of all the septic tanks in the keys and they are all gone there are no more septic tanks in the Florida Keys now the next on the list is the Indian River Lagoon so uh Mr Riley you mentioned the 2030 mandate um that applies to the Indian River lagoons that was a designated area it's not the entire State let's make sure they understand you're not talking about Indian past Lagoon no sir you're talking about the other side on the East Coast where been seeing the manatees dying because too many tanks when you get enough starving manatees washing up on your Shores the legislature will pass a mandate to to eliminate 17 so so they've given like they did with the keys they gave a a pretty lengthy time frame and then they've got a dedicated source of Revenue and and regarding recurring Revenue this legislature just obligated 96% of seminol uh gaming compact money to this purpose so we've got a potentially assuming the governor signs it a very long-term source as long as people keep coming to Florida to gamble put money in slots that's that's money that's recurring funding to help offset these costs I um I think the state has been pretty judicious which with its use of the mandatory words um but it's done it in some locations right uh whether Indian pass or or Gulf County ever Rises to that level I for for me if I were asked to vote I would say no let's keep it voluntary or at worse grandfather everything in and make it day forward like like they do when the building code changes nobody has to go rip their house down and re you know upgrade everything to the new building code but when you build a new house you have to meet the new building or if you renovate to a certain extent right or what's more likely to happen is what we fought in 2008 2009 2010 with the legislature which was inspections yearly of every septic tank and knowing everybody says there's just fine they're not and that would include drain field so that's where the teeth came and the fac was successful to to to kill that but if we want to say that our septics are perfect the state's going to come in and say okay you got to have them inspected every year got prove it and that yeah that could be problematic for okay most okay thanks State your day address for the record please Robin renck 123 Mariner Lane thank you ma' um I'm am the association manager for the cottages at Indian summer which is on the it's not on the the Lagoon itself but it backs up to that area and I guess the question that we have is we have three common drain Fields six uh Lots per and um if they wanted to change over would they no longer need to tie into that common drain field so the houses except for the two lots of the drain fields are on the houses don't have a drain filled now yes ma'am we can accommodate that you could accommodate that okay okay super thank you you're welcome yes ma'am thank you come on come on come on come on back up Mark G 111 sou seminal um a lot of us are only here half a year and I'm not really comfortable paying 55 bucks a month for something I'm not using so I'm wondering if there's going to be some type of use monitoring so you know that nothing's happening in my septic that I got to pay for if nothing's happening in it that that second question that you got in there at the end is the one that's going to stop me we we do Monitor and we do know if if nobody is there um uh we've got a lot of folks in Florida that are seasonal residents and the units will attempt to stay alive like keep the keep the bug population active for an extended period of time they go into something called starvation mode where they start to internally recycle uh but eventually the units will starve to death in about eight weeks or so when they're running when when you're running well we we run them even while you're gone because we're hoping that you're not gone for six months that you're only gone for lot of us are um they will eventually uh shut off and go into just dormant um at about 8 weeks um that's what the units will do and they won't uh they won't be powered up they'll just be uh um uh dormant and when flip but they do monitor the water level so when you when you come back you don't have to call anybody when you come back and the and the units start to to receive Wastewater again they'll reactivate and we'll start to start to treat again that's how the units will operate um we do not have a contract that says if you're gone for six months we're only going to charge you for four months while you're gone because remember they're they're working for two months or if you notify us say I'm going to go for six months I want to turn off my service we don't have any contract that that that accommodates that feature but that would be a county negotiation if it was there was such a thing correct but but again I wouldn't recommend that to the count to Commission because we've got a flat fee so we're not charging whereas if you're in the city of Port St Joe and you use 10,000 gallons you get a lot more than $50 bill it may be $250 bill this is a flat fee there's going to be a maintenance cost Associated we're still maintaining it it's still depreciating so if you only use it half the time but we have to replace your drain field in 10 years you know everybody else is going to wind up subsidizing your so I just don't think it's it's not a it's not a lot of cost 50 bucks for this particular deal so so again he I understand but I mean okay thank you thanks yes sir I got one more question I know you talking about the um the electrical is it 110 you said 110 run one plug runs everything one wire what size wire it's a 15 amp connection yes sir okay all right question yes sir um so there is no chapter 6486 for this so what um for for for this system so what are the setbacks are they Performance Based setbacks yes sir so two foot off the property line dra field no sir the drainfield um uh the primary setbacks are to are to Wells and uh and surface waters yes sir the the the drain Fields can be that set that close to to a property line right and the surface waters are 75 yes sir 75 ft okay y um I I am hopeful and I have had multiple conversations with d about reducing the setback from uh Wells and surface waters based on the improved water quality but that does not exist in rule yet okay one more question Mr chairman um well hang on one second I want to ask our planner um if they're just Performance Based we need to change our policy or ldrs to accept this or just is it already in the ldrs for for a Performance Based system it's 150 for conventional and I think anerobic is 75 is that correct that's correct and it would be the same thing as anerobic today based on what I'm hearing even though it's much but as far as a property line setbacks I don't think we have that we don't have anything in our ldr department of health do property line setbacks the width and all that kind of stuff okay just want to make sure that the last question I have uh for today is cccl implications um what type of has there been something through beaches and Shores that yall have done or how's that permitting going to work for these folks we we have not commissioner we we have not um I know I remember you asked me that before and I apologize I don't have a better answer for you today uh I'm going to find out and I'll get back to you we we've not done any permitting SE of the cccl on any systems to date you know the the counties where we're in we're in interior Florida right now um I suspect that uh the regulations would say no discharge Mery of the cccl because this is a 62 600 regulated system like a a conventional Wastewater Plant um I'm going to have to get an answer for you on that okay we may have to get a variance from cccl okay and if we do we'd like to do it countywide where we don't have to do it every single time because again the goal would be to get all of those off so our original is going to be one it is one permit so we should be able to negotiate that in that single permit we're not having to get permits at at every location yes sir okay yes sir anyone else in public I got one other question tell me about your tell me about your control box that's going to go on the side of the house you know in Florida we can have four seasons in one day so um with you know extreme heat cold and humidity so tell me about that and how secure it is and how it'll hold up over time um commissioner uh they are IP67 rated so that's a water tight enclosure um you can spray it with a garden hose um it's not going to get any water inside it so it's got a it's got a gasket it's it's a a uh plastic it's abs and it's got an integrated gasket and it's secured with security screws it's not locked so if somebody wanted to get into it they could get into it um inside it you've got 110 and you've got low voltage uh control circuits though so if somebody gets in there they can they can really hurt themselves so it does say do not enter high voltage all that stuff but it's an IP67 rated box um is it can survive everything that nature can throw at them absolutely not nothing can so uh but our objective is to make it as uh as Hardy as possible okay thank you good answer thank you appreciate yes you come on up now the question I got is uh this um Mr her Mr Jeff if the county is willing to bring you guys back for another public uh Workshop are you guys willing to come back and talk with the public absolutely yes sir I guess that was part of my question I'm Barbara Radcliffe 210 South Palm Street Indian pass um how soon will you guys be considering this uh to actually vote on it will there be other public workshops like this and Mr Hammond said that you know this wouldn't happen immediately which I understand all of that but when does when do you see this coming to fruition where we the people have have to make a decision I hope six months would be my uh thoughts to the board now we will have further discussions about this between now and then but until we get our state permit that has been applied for nothing can happen and then again we're we're in no hurry as far as the the roll out and the construction and all that kind of stuff so there's going to be plenty of time between now and that six-month start period which again is is hopeful it may not happen in 6 months it may be a little bit longer but that's my time frame and if y'all want to contradict that feel free to no sir and just remind uh the through the chair um you know if we get emailed questions from uh y all you know so you don't have to stay out late and come out of here or whatever we're more than happy to do that in the interim so can I assume that since we have applied for a state permit that the board is in favor of this moving forward uh go ahead go let me say this Mr chairman I would love to see us have another Workshop I've learned a lot myself today but I would love to see us I've still got questions myself and and I'd love to see us have another Workshop before we move forward okay yeah and that was that was my I was I was going I just Echo what commissioner mcon said I don't see the the board you know moving forward until we get all the questions answers that need to be answered so um okay and then one other question um what's the name of your company again on-site performance onsite performance and your company will negotiate a contract with our County and then whatever monthly fee is determined it could be $50 it could be $60 and if I understand right there will be an annual increase of some percentage every year in perpetuity that has not been decided yet so I again I'm I'm I've never heard 60 but but you know some some are 45 whatever it is whatever the number is Will everything does go up but but right now we've not discussed a a uh an annual increase okay a cola of some sort well this is just my personal opinion I feel like as Americans we are being nickel and dimed to death every which way we turn and right now my septic system system doesn't cost me anything except what I pay for ridex and it's been working fine for 20 something years so thank you right thank you Mr B Mr chairman yes sir um I'll take this minute to tell you I've got a um I just got a text message I got a current property own just completed a house a couple years ago and I think he wants to keep his septic where it's at cuz he's got a new construction but he's also going to build another house he wants to be the first one to sign up so you already have a customer well the the the the only negative is and again this is my recommendation to y'all is this this is not for new construction I mean they can get the new system but they have to pay for it the the state is not going to pay for for new system under you know oh so it's got to replace your the the the first come first serve is to get adequated system systems all appreciate you clarifying that now at some juncture we already signed you up yeah too late all right all right all right anyone else in the public questions concerns I have to B yep full press clay you late man evidently we're a shy group tonight because I can tell you I have had a thousand questions come to my email and um so if anybody else wants to come up and ask questions come on up because this is your time to ask questions uh since nobody jumped up I'll I'll ask just a couple more that I have um here's and and hopefully we will have another another meeting because um some of the things that have been said here tonight and I'll just read off little bits only 30 units installed we're the only one new technology I can't tell you how much that scares us that scares the pants off of everybody in Indian pass so if that issue can be addressed a a little bit better maybe not tonight but in the future that would make all of us a little bit more comfortable um the other thing and I I don't mean this in a negative way but when I hear pumps sensors computer internet have you ever been to Indian pass we're like the little third world nation of golf County out there and proud of it um so that's a that's a hurdle that we need to overcome uh both mentally and physically because things don't work out there all the time and I realized there's a little cushion I think you said four four days there's a little bit of a cushion um it I think what frightens most of us is that there technology when it works is great but it also it's another thing that scares the pants off of us because we think right now the only technology we have is gravity and it works every day and this is a introduction of a lot of new tech or not maybe new technology but more technology and and that might be something that you want to address uh a little bit more in the future with us too so do you have one of these I do does it work not all the time this is not not an Indian pass I'm not asking if you can I'm not asking if you can stream Netflix all the time I'm asking you yeah it's it's a tough area I let me be more precise I'm not asking if you get a signal all the time we've already addressed the signal we use bigger antennas in this does the thing turn on I I just mean yeah there there there's technology that has become ubiquitous so so much so that we don't even think about it flipping the light switch and the lights come on um you mentioned have I been in any past yes um I'm I'm a panhandle kid right I've I've I've been in a in a lot of small parts of of Florida tucked away on on our coastlines I've also been to subsaharan Africa and I've also been to Central America where there are really poor people we're not poor and we're not in a third world country and and there are Engineers Without Borders and missionaries that are going to all kinds of parts of the world to bring the internet there so they can educate their kids and have access to the world to bring technology there so they can get clean water and sanitation and and uh we're not using any kind of technology that you can't get out of a Granger catalog and our stuff is not as smart as a phone right this phone has more technology in it than the space shuttle right and and that shouldn't scare us right we're we're Americans right we can if we have an environmental problem and I'm an engineer I feel feel very passionate about this if you give me the tools and resources I can solve your problem Global um somebody come up with a way to cool off the sun um for for wastewater treatment this is this is off-the-shelf technology and it is 80y old wastewater treatment Concepts the the this is not this is not as Cutting Edge as this yeah and I don't think we have a so much mostly because most of us don't understand it um I don't think we have a question with the technology it's it's the location it's it's the area it's the I'm conc I have computers that don't work all the time I I just spent thousands of dollars having my computer guys try to fix my computers and it's I'm not saying that it's not going to break I'm just saying we shouldn't be afraid no no no and I I and and when you came up and said I'm I'm afraid that that's what got that's what got me good excited you should not be afraid of the type of Technology that's being deployed here it is robust it's been around a long time and and we didn't we didn't make it like we're using again we're using off-the-shelf industrial stuff well maybe that's been in and has worked in very harsh environments it's designed for the Wastewater industry and I realized this would take much longer but maybe the thing to do is to bring bring out a working unit set it up in Indian pass and let it run for a year let's use the pilot funding and and take advantage of some folks that are in Dire Straits and can use their so that brings difficult situation to put some units BR that brings up another question if you do the pilot program and and you put some units in place and then it doesn't work how do those people go back to their old system it is it it becomes a septic tank so it so what you would do is just pull your electronics out and just let it be a septic it's going to work better than what they got today all right any other questions all right we take this opportunity to thank everyone for coming to the workshop thank you