win ready Greg ready all right yeah good morning everyone good morning I'd like to call to order this morning's meeting of the arpb and with that um I'd like to ask grene for the Roll Call Mr Lions here Mr Smith here Mr roach here Vice chairman dockerty here chairman Murphy here let it also be noted present this morning is Town manager Dunham assistant Town attorney nazaro and myself thank you we now hope you had a chance to review the minutes of the last meeting uh there is one um edit I like please it said there was no expart communication I actually spoke to Rob Campbell about CH LA's um application for the garage we could just make that Amendment and with that there's no other amendments I they' be presented with I actually have one little IO page Four B on um paragraph starts Mary Walton you go towards the bottom it said abuse and it just had H at the end of it mother VI shed or view something you shed what do you want to supped to say you shed is that what you're talking about I don't have the m in front of yeah viewshed is a word it is talking about the views I looked it up yeah oh thank you you educated me we all we all learned something this is a multi-purpose meeting it must be that Master yeah yeah all right with those Corrections are non-correction I move they be presented Rene Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman doy yes chairman Murphy yes okay are we settled right in that case are there any additions withdrawals deferrals or a change in the arrangement of agenda items in front of us this morning there are okay we have the dates coming up for our future meetings um I will not be here on March 28th can I ask if that's going to be an issue for any of you that's the day before Good Friday so I don't know if any of you were going to be out of town or from here from here okay so you'll cheer the meeting that that morning Mr do yes okay um we now move on to the public hearing part of our meeting this morning and has there been any expart communication concerning the applications in front of us this morning no no I do have to be cleare expart I had an email from Mrs ganger okay concerning the application and with that Renee anyone who'd like to speak this morning good you swear to the truth the hold truth nothing but truth help you if I do not know you me your names before you thank you and so we now move on to the first application in front of us this morning Mark good morning uh the board uh for the record Mark Marsh Bri Marsh and Associates um today I'm joined by Chris Simon who is representing uh Marin noo landscape Inc um also with us is Mrs I didn't know two uh Missy Walsh who is the owner of the property with her husband Joe um we're here to uh basically go through a fairly substantial renovation to an existing house um we're asking for three approvals one is minor improvements in a North Ocean Boulevard overlay permit District uh demolition permit and a level three approval can we roll here while we're waiting for this I'll just give you a little background on the property this house was built in the late mid to late 90s um it was developed I think and by a speculative owner um it is a very awkward house the existing house it's Mediterranean in character I don't won't say it's true Mediterranean it's I hate to use the word and I may get in uh it's a boka mediter Mediterranean which uh you'll see shortly um sorry go back this is always fun we got to get a minut um it's located uh just about five blocks north of or four properties five properties north of the B&T um it's 1315 North Ocean Boulevard um the uh walshes bought this property a little over two years ago um and fell in love with the the lot it's a wonderful lot it actually from the road you uh drive down or descend onto kind of a plat which then looks out to the ocean it's really but they did a wise thing they moved in for I think one and a half Seasons to the existing house and that's what we always recommend to clients when they purchase a house and the difficulties of the existing plan U came clear to them and we looked at options to renovate but then decided that we had to do major surgery to the this particular property um so what we're showing here here today is a transformation of this Mediterranean uh which has a ton of awkwardness in it and uh coming back with something that I think is much more in character with the Gulfstream look the driveway the need for the um North North Ocean Boulevard uh approval is the fact that we're moving the driveway further s South and um Chris will go through this to make a little bit more gracious driveway entry that's the only reason we need the North Ocean Boulevard approving we're going to change the motor Court uh it has a circular uh approach now and a circular Motor Court we're going to make a more rectilinear Motor Court um we're going to create a sense of Entry through a stone Terrace uh Garden area and then approach the house um the pool is going to stay very similar to where it is now in a similar location and we're going to move the sea wall or the retaining wall on the east side further east the thing to note here is that when this house was built the coastal control line was the old Coastal control line in 97 when the line moved moved to this point here um and that comes into play because the house is on piles and it does exceed the minimum FEMA height so that is one huge value to the property and the house as it stands we are going to you'll see a square uh plan here on the site and I'll go through that with you and show you what it's transformed from next one please this is a house I don't know how many of you might have been to the house or visit the site but again it's one of these BCA Mediterraneans that has one of everything on it it's just it's the facade is just littered with ornaments that make no no real reference to anything significant so um that's what we were challenged with so next one please this is what the existing house plan looks like and I think I counted a half a dozen perpendic or 90 degree walls in this whole structure everything else is a 45 degree and why I know it's a spec is because these were developed in Boker on very small lots and it was an Illusion by using the angle to make it feel bigger and grander but it it just destroys a use of a lot of space as awkwardness and we're intending now to do major uh demolition to the structure and bring it much more into the lifestyle of the the walshes and what You' expect continue this is the second floor uh just to show you an example this is an upper Gallery area maybe 300 or more Square feet that really you can't use there's no way to furnish it it's just it's just a really a show house or it was or hopefully it was um and again you see the Angles and the roof uh Arrangement here next please so this is a demolition the demolition is mainly we want garage because again it's at a 45 degree angle which makes it awkward for you know getting in and out and just as an arrival to the side element it's very helpful and then you can see we want to clip everything up and make it re to linear which is more normal and common for the style that we're trying to create um next please this is our first floor ground floor plan now you can see that the regularity of this the rectal linear elements that the spaces are now much more functional um there was a staircase I should have show you that was right in the center of the house it it was a round ster made no sense it was actually very difficult to go Ascend and descend um so we are now rearranging so this will be a major renovation on demon I to this to this existing house next this is the existing upstairs again you see the angle of nature most of it um and there's a a well twostory opening between the ground floor and the second floor um we will be keeping that but reducing it substantially but again you can see the erratic nature of the the way the plan lays out next please and this is our version of what we're proposing you'll notice the roots are not more rectal linia more um balanced not all these angles and this is the the floor plan is actually mimicking basically what's there but just turning into the lifestyle of the walshes the combination is very similar um in terms of square footage uh we were vested with I think 8798 square feet which we're not adding anymore in fact we're doing three feet less which I've never left on the table but I but I think that the walshes are happy with the layout that it meets all their demands and their program requirements um next please you can see the RO roof again is much more organized the important thing here is that the mass of the house is actually going to be reduced by this scheme because um The Roof is so so Ecentric in the original or the existing plan that it the scale is of the roof is just ma massive compared to the house itself next please what we did here was to do a the upper image as they proposed um we're introducing our Caribbean U Anglo Caribbean look which we brought to the town many many years ago and it's a look that's much more uh appropriate not only for Gulf Stream but for the climate and the location of where we are so above is what we're proposing below you can see all these elements that they have no reference these are no use I did have a older interior designer worked for me and he he came up with a word hazeri and I'm going what the hell is that sorry I Le s and the definition is putting a lot of useless elements on the facade of a building in other words you're just creating all these elements the scale of some of these rafs is not consistent you'll see we're we're making everything consistent the fenestration is again all over the place next one please this is just a cut through the the entry Courtyard showing the actual faade of the main house that's the lower one again the upper being the one we're proposing continue and then this is the East exposure or East Elevation again below you'll see again this is actually when the manual was developed um for guidance for uh the the town in terms of architectural style this would have been a great candidate the existing house I mean this is you know just expans of flame glass P PL glass windows no no muttons nothing that resembles anything that I think would conform to the criteria now um and then above is our use of you know organized fenestration removing arches obviously the sty doesn't allow for that and just creating a we are creating a lower covered uh loia and an upper balcony as one unified element across the North and South Wing next please these side elevations just show what you can start to appreciate this scale of it next likewise here um on the up and down roofs next please in terms of material and these are just sex Crush sections through the proposed house um the the heights are actually very floor T floor Heights are very generous which we want to utilize um next please so these are rendering just of what we're proposing the materials there will be a canadi Canadian uh shingo roof um which some of you may be familiar with there are those roofs in town they're again very Caribbean and bamian look they when they weather they start as a kind of a light brown and when they weather they become that silver color that almost looks like a slate so we're proposed to use that the the house will be white primarily and the shutters on any of the other elements will be a light gray just again make it very peaceful quiet and I think more appropriate with that I'll answer any architectural questions before I pass it over to Chris or shall we continue Mark I've got a quick question on a 4.3 you don't need to go back to it on the East Elevation just what was the um glass ratio I know this I it I didn't even calculate it because it it's under yeah 40 our is yes oh yeah sorry no it's just it was 90% we're going in the right direction yeah no definitely in the right direction okay thank you okay Mark just a quick question on the um North elevation as compared to the South elevation yes um the South you have shutters in the back you don't no on the sides on the south Elation the front you have shutters correct and then can you go back sorry and this is only a question okay so again my statement is on the south um elevation the front elevation have shutters and on the North elevation you don't so is that reason no I just didn't warrant it um it's you know we could add shutters there that's not a problem it just you know it it would be more consistent obviously so just an observation yeah no that's fine no I think that's fine no more questions I think it look you want to move on to the next gr y okay have Chris come up and go through good morning the record Chris Simon NOA Williams design um Mark kind of touched on the uh site plan and a little bit of the changes to the site plan so I won't um spend too much time on some of those items but uh I will kind of make note that on the property there's a lot of existing palm trees that we're going to um end up removing just because the heights of these trees are just kind of Beyond um what we want to see in the in a new Gardens uh so the majority of the palm trees will be gone some of the trees that are just not in the best shape the um all of the sea grapes uh will remain in place they have nice full canopies on them helping providing a lot of good screening from the uh from the road and from the adjacent property so a lot of that screening will remain in place and we'll continue to enhance that as well um so if we go on to I think we can really just spend most of the time on the rendered site plan if you don't mind uh yes right here so um as Mark touched on the driveway gate curb cut entrance from the from uh North Ocean will be shifted proposed to be shifted further south and we're really trying to ease that curve way into the um into the uh entry Court um whether that be for larger um Vehicles such as delivery uh type vehicles um maintenance trucks for the for the lawn Crews um just a just a gentler curve gentler approach it's a little bit uh tight as it is now um that will lead into the uh new rectilinear uh entry Court uh for guests arrival we're keeping we're actually shifting one of the um one of the seag trees right into this spot here which is going to be between the the residents and and staff parking areas and leading into the garage and that'll help kind of screen the the views into the garage door so it's kind of um really softening that uh that whole paved area helping reduce the sense of space that's there um like I said also kind of screening or buffering The View right into the garage doors which are now facing uh facing west um we also have oh that's that's within the the the driveways also within the um uh overlay North Ocean overlay District that's the where the request as was touched on uh from the entry Court uh you lead through the gate into a more formal more usable space in the entry Garden we have the uh long um north south facing lawn area followed by the nice formal entry Paving uh right there at that entry Courtyard this is going to allow for a little bit more formality kind of neaten up update the site and it'll also allow for if they wanted to have cocktails or some sort of um light entertainment in the front it kind of gives them a little bit of an outdoor space without having to push into the um into the lawn because we all know sometimes there's a little bit of a breeze back there um so it'll be more of a um kind of a passive entry we do have a water feature that's going to be on axis with that north south lawn that'll help kind of um add to that tranquility and the um the peaceful um arrival um um we also uh Mark mentioned we're going to be updating the pool new pool constructed in about the same location excuse me little bit more formal orientation on the shape centered on axis at the uh at the East loia there um facing the ocean the large lawn space will be expanded upon we the currently it's it's a little bit um broken up let's say so you get a little much greater sense of the sense of space nice peaceful passive lawn on the east side of the house the uh retention wall will shift a little bit to the east uh allowing for more of that space this is um this will be a frangible wall uh Breakaway um with the gardens extending around wrapping around to the north side east of the Northeast uh loia just giving nice views into the out into the ocean um and we do have the south side of the house there was an existing Terrace that was there with a um as Mark stated an a Very dated uh look to it the materials for The Hardscape itself um same and we just wanted to update that and make it a little bit more formal giving this little private Garden little secret space that also houses the uh outdoor showers from the pool and make their way around to the side there and The Hardscape itself is going to be very clean uh uh where actually considering a uh pre-cast or a manufactured stone with um shell or an aggregate into this so it'll be a very nice kind of a beachy sense that work well with the architectural styles that are um where the house is being updated uh into and um with that I think we're we're really kind of um that's really I want to cover we do have the the east on the west side of the house when you do enter now you'll have this nice big lawn space so you'll right when you come through through that buffer you're going to have this nice sense of space right when you get in there this large expanse on the uh left in plan west side of the house um kind of creating a little bit more space throughout the site overall and with that if there's any questions there been any comments from the neighbors neighbors yeah no I just have one observation um if everyone could turn to the sheet that has the tree removal D1 the one thing that strikes me um and this is more in the context of what the town has done in the past clear cutting a piece of property is discouraged um and I see that basically essentially moving taking out all the existing trees the palm trees yes palm trees right so um they're they've kind of outgrown uh the canopies are very high at the time at the where they are currently what we' like to do is install lower canopy trees because right now if the the canopy is up above the house level the roof line it's not providing any sense of screening other than the other than the sense of um age let's say right uh we can certainly reuse and re incorporate some of those trees into the neur material so we have a little bit of a mix that we could certainly take that under consideration yeah well just to clarify established vegetation that occurs on the West End is going to be preserved right there's a huge Bandon tree here which we're working around so from the road the appearance will be very similar or right right sorry not not interrupt but all all of the canopy trees all the SE grapes that are there that are providing the buffer and the shade that the canopy that's there that will all remain again these are observations sure um the canopy is important to the town I think that's right um and varied varied Heights um some of the older canopies convey the fact this town has been around for while it's not a new development um and so I struggle with that sure I hear what you're trying to accomplish but I'm also trying to preserve you look behind you at that picture of going down Gul stream right I mean um we could clear all that out put low canopy and it wouldn't it wouldn't look like Gulf Stream understood understood um I'm just staff you I'm curious is to your perspective on this well so just to follow up on Mr lian's question I think I'm know where he's going I mean we do have the predisposition uh chart here and uh it doesn't show anything that's being new plan thing that this this is uh this is a existing demolition plan the new material would show up on your LP sheets and you should have a plant list as well which will include all of your new material on lp3 so lp1 through lp3 is all of your proposed materials okay uh we do have um everything when we typically do projects we like Mr Lions agree with the established look and appearance if there's anything of value on a property we always maintain it we always secure it on the property we repurpose it we build around it design around it um palm tree trees are they can take a beating and end up not looking that great their health they they they have sometimes they struggle with health issues trees are much easier to um withstand different types of pests and problems and winds they're very resilient so they will maintain these nice full canopies which is what we want our project when we install new uh materials um we always specify substantial size materials so that the project has an appearance that it has been established for a few years rather than coming in with if it's if it's something where we have to be budget conscious certainly we will we will look into and consider smaller trees this is not that type of a project everything that would go in would be very substantial going in and I appreciate all those I I cocon I have a very small piece of property I coconut trees I have Royal Palms um I have two right next next to my house I'm not sure that's the smartest thing but they were there not planning to take him out so maybe the now the discussion um looking at this um list of trees you're going to remove I I think there's only three Royal Palms right um having put in coconut palms myself that grow really quickly so I'm not you take those out they'll be tall before you know it um the oil Palms they you know they get to a my coconut trees when that high when I put them in and now they're fighting with the Royal Palms so I'm really more focused on those three Royal Palms can you save any of those we can certainly look at that and find a good home for those within the new landscape me is that reasonable unreasonable I mean I'm only one voice here Paul I think as I said earlier the streetscape is not going to be affected by this project the existing streetscape yeah so it's it's it's actually a mood issue um because everything is going to be the the seawood two-thirds of the property where we have but the the established Landscaping that currently there is going to be preserved the the walshes want it Town wants it everybody because we don't I I agree 100% we don't want to change the impact of the streetcape that we have now so I think what we're talking about and what Chris is talking about is really material more located on the E Center and East where we have to do you know the renov are such large deep lots and obviously two-thirds of it is sort of to the east is what I'm hearing but I like Paul's comment in general about noticing that the ponds they're three you why couldn't you save them or take them so in general I think I would kind of support your I just want to be sure we have a good discussion the subject before we just take him out oh yeah no that's really my purpose understood great this is I just I'll finish it up with this question you don't even know what a tree is and comment so on LP2 that chart there that represents your new plantings on lp3 we have the list of materials we didn't get we didn't get lp3 we got two twos we have an LP2 that has a chart it looks like it should be this sheet that's up this represents yes those are the the specifications for the new planting the plans lp1 LP2 show the locations of where so I think uh I think the normally when we see a tree disposition list yours was so large you had to put it on a couple different pages but normally we see them compared the comparing the ones that are being removed and then added so I think that was okay maybe the confusion that we didn't really look far enough to see or plant new absolutely understandable and my second question was are any of those coconut palms did you might were they could they be considered diseased well I'm sure there's a few on the property that are not in the best health um I I I don't know whether they've been on a program for um basically steroids for um lethal yellowing so I we'd have to really kind of dive into that a little bit more but anything that would be being treated for that there's a reason so it'd be better to obviously take those out right okay okay Mark there's currently not a wall on A1A is there so part of this plan is a new wall and new gate yes can you go back to that you had that up there a minute ago right there's an elevation we have on yeah so you're going to have six six foot tall posts I guess the going to be new also is there going to be anything planted in front of the wall or are we going to just be looking at a white wall okay so have material right you have material planted on the exteriores that reflect it yeah that exactly and the the SE trees you can sense here with the SE trees in this rendering yeah that represents the existing trees that are there so this is really the view from the road as it is today regarding the trees yeah as you would see post uh post project the wall wall will be new and is planting in front of the wall or you going to try to mask the wall no you're going to leave some of the walls I think sorry go ahead no we we we're proposing uh low planting in front of the wall if there's any comments uh that um on the contrary we can certainly look at you want to break that up a little as what my comment yeah it does look a little just too dark you can absolutely enhance that do you have a picture what it looks like now uh do you have any on the existing photos of your nothing I think it's all it's basically all green now just green yeah it's this illustr yeah I mean it's sort of yes it's all yeah so replicates what's there now see from the it's really quite Den that's what I was just going to say it is dense so you can't really see into the property now um but to your point it will be going from that let's say Natural State appearance of Natural State into this let's let's call it a um I don't want to use the word barrier but a bar certainly consider screening a little bit more right just some variation to it with flat okay it's just monolithic at the moment it's yeah that's a good question okay certain Malcolm how we handle just well put it this way this is going to a level three so I think we make a recommendation that our points on the Landscaping is taken into account if we vote on this to go forward okay I think that's the best way to that's way yeah okay if there are no more questions or comments from public on this Pro proposal could I ask for some motions please concerning this application yeah uh I'll go ahead and make a motion to recommend approval of a North Ocean Boulevard overlay permit to allowing new gates and relocate the drive to the South better align motorport approach second Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman duckery yes chairman Murphy yes I'll make a motion to recommend approval of a demolition permit to permit a partial demolition of the existing residents second Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman duckery yes chairman Murphy yes I'll make a motion to recommend approval of a level three architectural site plan based on a finding that a partial demolition of the existing residents and new Renovations within the footprint of a non-conforming residence moving the existing driveway South and a new gate and fening meet the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards and do we want to add to that points about the on that motion about the increased Landscaping on the external Landscaping on the outside improvements to the west facing to the west side of the wall yeah and land yeah we to revisit the wall design for boards comments you I'll second that with the addition Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman doery yes chairman Murphy yes thank you thank you very much thank you so we move on to our second application in front of us this morning good morning caros good [Laughter] morning may I ask what this is oh that's my recording okay has a lovely accent I would I would not good morning uh name is Carlos lares with Randle soft Architects we're here to uh propose a in addition to an existing uh detached garage structure at the uh the AES 2817 North Ocean Boulevard the the first photograph is uh illustrating the existing detach uh garage structure this structure was uh built in I believe 2011 uh so this is the uh the the newer structure that has been built in this uh property uh this is an Aral photo of the whole uh property uh it consists of a couple different structures the main home and a couple of detached structures including the uh garage that we are going to be attaching our addition to uh this is the site plan um reflecting the same uh illustrating where we're proposing to uh do the addition of the um it what is uh going to be utilized as a uh theater uh for uh the for our client this shows the floor plan um it's a uh it's a small addition I mean compared to the rest of the the home obviously uh the uh the addition that we're proposing is uh 70086 square feet uh this is uh basically what we're allowed to build maximum uh you know so we're not proposing we're not asking for any special uh exceptions uh so we're basically going out to the Limit that that we're that that we will be allowed to to build this is the uh the proposed addition um the top South elevation uh to the left is the existing garage and to the right with the color um roof is what we are proposing uh for the addition uh we're maintaining the same uh essence of the architecture the existing architecture um I'll show you some additional photos later on on on how we're tying it into the rest of the structures and into the main house uh utilizing the same uh roof tile the same uh stule uh color that it has been uh painted throughout the house and and also the windows and doors are going to be similar to the rest of the the structures throughout the proper uh keeping keeping that the height limitation to what is allowed by the town of Gulf Stream um again it's a uh single story structure uh theater um obviously you know it doesn't really need Windows but for the architectural style we need to maintain Windows obviously he's going to have some window treatments this is a couple additional photos of the ex existing structure uh that is there from a couple different angles uh there there are some additional angles of you know just to just to illustrate all the details the type of tile stule uh windows and so forth just to um show you how it's tying in uh this is this is a photo of the uh main house and a uh structure that is to the north of that um again is is just to more just to illustrate how we're trying to maintain the same architectural style for the addition you know so it just looks like it's been there forever and again this is the same same image um that pretty much completes my presentation any questions I must say it's it's a very unique property in G Dre um you know it's extremely unique and it's beautiful really it's one of the oldest it is absolutely third or fourth Bob would know that how old is the old spear residence I don't know yeah and I remember when this came before us last time in terms of the theater and the solution is far more pref yes yes uh well I I did not mention that we were here to try to get the theater uh onto a non-conforming structure um obviously there were uh some things in the code that that would allow us to to to do that um but there was a lot of feed negative feedback from that so you know obviously we retracted and and the homeowner wanted to do something that was by right so this is what we're uh trying to do he still wanted to have his structure um add it will you be able to match the tile pretty closely with the existing garage yeah so if if anything I mean we could always do mockups uh prior to that tile going up obviously this structure is not that old this is 2011 so I'm pretty sure that we're going to be able to find something very comparable and and the The Proposal is centrally located but we have to ask is there any feedback from neighbor we had someone call wanted to know when the agenda was going to be posted I told them I have not heard that okay the the roof on the main part of the this house I know there's a couple structures on this property was that done in 201 I'm just I I don't I don't have a record of that um but it it does look very similar okay okay I just know uh matching these uh tiles is getting more and more difficult it is and and you have to maybe even import them from down you know they're being made or something correct I've have somebody's trying to doing struggling with it we don't want to put up you know obviously the and typically that is what we always do not not just for the town but for the homeowner obviously the homeowner needs to see it and approve it so we have to do mockups in order to try to get the the right blend to try to match it as close to as possible we don't want it to look like two separate structures at all okay okay any questions from the in that case could I ask for a motion please um I'd like to make a motion to approve a level two architectural site plan based on a finding that the construction of a new single story 786 foot addition to an existing freestanding garage meets the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards second I could ask a question should we have uh the tile review by staff or just is that unnecessary why not it's not going to harm I mean as you say the owner isn't going to want to see yeah I think we're okay on that PO Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman doerty yes chairman Murphy yes thank you car and so we move on to our next application in front of us this [Music] morning thanks good morning I'm Rob Robbie Glenn with Del Garden Center um I come before you today for the Caso residence and trying to install artificial turf in the backyard um he owns two residences uh this is the one on the corner that is um you know screened in and blocked in by fishtail large fishtail Palms all across the back um the reason why we're trying to put the artificial turf in is because it's on the north side of these big fishtail Palms it's very wet doesn't get a lot of Sun um the grass isn't doing well and this would be a perfect application for it um and basically this is the sample um I provided you guys with the layout and everything um and I'd open up to you if you have any questions um seems pretty straightforward I've gone over with the town and everything so this is why I'm before you today sure does it there's very specific yeah is made of yeah we don't but the town needs to see that spe she to make sure it conforms so we we just have a motion if you wanted to approve the application contingent on staff confirming the spec sheet meets all the requirements of the code that'd be fine yeah in the future I think why don't the town look at before it gets presented to us absolutely um that was also an issue with Mark Mar project where we had this Landscaping plan that was provided you know very late um it was not noticed as a land clearing permit but it should have been uh the original conversation was we're doing a Remodeling and then we find out that there's a lot of uh adjustment to the Landscaping so you know absolutely yes a lot of that needs we try to process applications quickly as they come in and you know sometimes we you know we lean on the applicant to get us materials but absolutely I agree um in some cases we just need to say no okay it was very abnormal for Mark yeah right yeah I kind of sense that yeah Robbie I think that that particular piece of property I'm familiar with and it's totally shaded I don't know how you can grow any grass and can't be seen by anybody the street or the water clear criteria we have to meet and it checks the boxes for those I understand yeah the mayor did ask us to do a drive buy so we did do that right you can't see it you can't see it there's no way to cut back the shade on the south side it's just overwhelming uh the fishtail Palms are so large and I I I don't we don't really like to cut those yeah the neighbor doesn't want them the same the same so are there any more questions so it's the high the yellow highlighted area weing okay okay I'll make a motion to approve a level two architectural site plan based on a finding that the conversion of 1100 feet of natural side to artificial turf meets the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards with the following two conditions Landscaping shall be maintained so as to prevent the artificial turf from being visible from the street or Waterway and that the product chosen meets all the technical standards uh that the town has come up with okay second please second Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman doery yes chairman Murphy yes thank you Robbie thank you apprciate so can we move on to our final application in front to us this morning Mr chairman board members uh for the record G leopolis uh ge architecture our address is 1045 East Atlantic Avenue uh with me today is uh Christian Mendoza who's doing our presentation we also do have our client here should you have any questions for her she has been sworn in and we'd be happy to answer anything to help us along here um so we were here last month um you're you did approve and so in at the commission the middle Villa that we are proposing to renovate we actually were reducing the square footage a little bit and what we were trying to do was move some of that square footage over to what we call the main Villa um the next slide I think we tried doing last time which is a a flyover um again this Pro property is very unique because of it's actually abing the property to the South so you know you basically have 1465 and 1443 touching each other um there's different uh scenarios of when this was subdivided it seems like it was in the 30s um there are going to be some comments that I'm going to make with regards to Historic um but I I I imagine when Trey is back he might shut me off to a certain point I want to make it clear you guys do not have any historic guidelines I don't believe you have any structures they're even on the local or national register but I know the neighbor Bob did mention it and I respect that about the historic significance of the building my point being that that it doesn't really apply to this but I do have some stuff in the presentation to help you guys see what the Secretary of Interiors of the state calls for when you doing the addition um so there you're seeing our site we're all on the North side in red um unique in the sense that the site is only 68 feet wide uh your code requires 150 so obviously this is a lot tighter both structures are crossing over the property line so they are both non-conforming on the next slide here's here's the shot that you're seeing from the ocean side so two of the things that you do look at when you're considering historic structures is what do you see from the public right away I'm treating this as the beach would be a public if you will view the next part you do when you're do an addition it should be subordinate to the main structures which means it should never be standing out more than anything else and I think when you look at it you actually should treat this almost as one as it is one building that was subdivided um for that matter you would say okay how is this proposed elevator that we are proposing going to be impact in this property on the next slide um one of the things that you had directed us to was to look at alternate Solutions and we we wanted to do that so and we are presenting that today we were trying to come up with different solutions I do believe our clients did meet with Bob like a week ago just talking about different things and G him a chance to see even the inside of the home um the next slide so we're going to go through the house and there are basically like three areas where this elevator would be appropriate should we go to the inside I do want you to look at this is their living room it's up front this would actually come out of this roof and go to the exterior would have to tie back into the primary closets um I think it would be a shame to disrupt that room because actually the way it's situated to add a square in it an elevator the next slide this is their dining room I mean I mean when you look at the detailing I think Bob mentioned it we just saw Mark Marsh was here before he worked on this they did a great job in the inside I mean when you're looking at ceilings like that this is their dining room again if we were to do the elevator here then it would actually go up into the primary bathroom uh next slide this is probably the more logical one that I think the board was looking at this is part of that three-story Tower okay so this is what we call the stair foyer um again they did a great job on the Interiors with the ceilings and the treatments but the problem is on the next slide you're going to go up into his primary bathroom um so it really is not as practical as you would think to just add it to the inside on the next slide all right so you got your three Villas this was the one that we actually presented last month here's where we are here uh square footages and lock coverages all remaining relatively the same the same um but it does bring us back to looking at where do we do it on the outside so we are considering putting it back where we showed you last time but we are saying we only going to go two stories we even changed a little bit of the design uh next slide so again you saw the picture right here that was of the stair forer area that was the dining room that was the living room we're putting it right in here uh next slide one of the things that we're doing in this design this is the proposed design we're actually taking what we do is the historic door that was on that elevation we're putting it access to the elevator so from the outside you can access into the elevator shut that door you can go up without actually having to go around into the interior uh next slide one of the things in this portion here is you know again thinking about if I had to go internally you're basically in this area here would affect that bathroom but in reality you also would be prohibiting our clients to use their home during construction We Believe doing on the outside they can actually stay in this home what's unique about the home and as much as the property is Big this house right here only has one bedroom okay it's the second floor it's the primary downstairs is all their living spaces top floor is really just a lot so you know it's really impacting the area where is their bedroom uh next slide please uh this is just basically the lower roof that you're going see uh you're going to see in the elevation we propos a little shed roof uh which is in keeping with the architecture style uh that's going to be over the door that enters into the elevator next slide please okay so I am only bringing this up because this is what you would be looking at if it was historic okay and this is what they call the Secretary of interior standards and I think the the main thing I really want to talk about I just read the whole thing into the record but it's the second part of this uh new additions exterior alterations or Rel new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property the new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing size scale and Architectural features to protect the historic Integrity of the property the next part though is where we feel we are meeting it totally uh the new additions in adjacent or related new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future the essential form and integrity of the historic property and the environment would remain unimpaired and that's the important part because the elevator can be designed with actual control joints and Expansion Joints that we can remove it should they sell this and some say I don't like it you can go right back to what we have and that's the key to this U again it's not part of your code but I wanted to bring it up the next part is a little bit more about additions I've highlighted some of the things but it's really the third well the first part basically says historic preservation recognizes the evolution of a property and subsequent owners of the historic resources are part of that Evolution process during the course of time frequently additions have been made to Historic properties because of practical needs and change of economic status the third bullet down repeats it again when it talks about where you put it when possible design and construct the addition so that basic form and character of the historic building will remain intact and if the addition was ever removed so we feel again this is the proper solution next one of the things you do when you are dealing with historic structures you want to make sure again the public RightWay I talked about from the beach You' never see this this is from A1A uh probably at this elevation Tom is the only one that might see it because it's at 10 feet we did a shot you're still not seeing the building in the back remember the building in the back is three stories you don't see it let's go to the next slide now we're at 20 feet you still don't see it so the point being that our proposed being a tw- story you will never see it next slide so this is your existing elevation um this is the door we're talking about that we will be relocating and putting it into the proposed elevator next again it's heavily vegetated uh you're not going to be seeing it from anywhere uh next I'm sorry what is that the north elev no go back Christian I'm sorry so this is where the ele oh that no go back I mean forward forward sorry it's the FR sorry so this is the existing Tower the proposed elevator would be right okay the right in front of it twostory yes 20 feet what's the height yeah can me give a take because that right there is approximately at 21 feet at okay all right next this is what we had proposed last month Y and and felt that I believe the chairman was very upset with that so we said we're going to change it so we changed it next um one of the things is this is the proposed in Blue uh 8 foot5 is off the property line it's kind of you know you try to do comparables and you say setbacks and stuff now we know we're asking for a special exception uh this particular lot I I just chose to look up in Del Beach it would be R1 zoning and the setback would be 7 foot6 um so we're actually exceeding that we'd be you know but in our case we 15 ft we already know we're nonl because we touch the property line um but there you're seeing what we're proposing the door gets relocated we have a shed roof over it and we're closing a window above it next please um again I'm kind of looking at this being all one structure how would you look at it historically you would want to make sure that whatever we're proposing is subordinate to not only this Tower but to the main structure next please that's where it would be it's going to still be heavily vegetated you won't see it and is actually a small element of the overall structure not overtaking anything architecturally next Gary can you just stay on that one please um oh go back when you say you can't see it um can you just make sure because that's one of the concerns that yeah because it's going to be in and basically you have all this vegetation on both sides of the wall so you won't be seeing because it's going to be so tight to the house okay it's just on the we just wanted to give a little graphic where it's going so visually you understand next and this is this the similar one and you'll see in massing uh next how it's well below the existing Tower and tucked in next please so that is our proposed elevation um we go around it I think we got the other views that you would see next can we go back one yep is that an artificial window that will align the fourth window over from left to right right we're actually CLE it will be a real window a real window okay and in this case we have two options Tom on that you can leave the glass and it just is obious going to let light into the elevator Tower the elevator would be solid on that side so it's not like you could see out of it right uh the other option is we actually take drywall we paint it black and the window is false I think it looks better with the window and you preserving the upstairs window in the office stay right where it is yeah oh no I'm sorry that one did shift this one did have to shift because of these elements right here that one shifted over a foot and we centered it on the existing one that's right below it because in the previous application it was just blank T it was yes it was it was just shutters yeah it was just shutters you got it next please you said one foot you said one foot oh oh yeah yeah the window yeah yes we were centering it we had to Shi it one foot so it line up with that one okay thank you next next please so this would be your South elevation next that being in the north and finally I believe we on our final one comes to the code um so you know reading it a little bit into the record uh as far as obviously uh 7075 c town code section addition structures with existing non-conforming setbacks um yeah I think the main parts is when you go to uh C subsection B specific standards for review conforming locations for the addition are impractical so obviously if we were doing something that was going to conform uh it it we got to prove that it's impractical we think we have done that significantly more expensive uh have a significantly more expensive or having a significant adverse impact on the site plan in terms of the overall site design or relationship between the site plant elements including but not limited to structures patios driveways and Landscape B the location of the addition shall represent a logical extension of the existing floor plan in terms of function and design and then C the exterior design of the addition shall represent a logical extension of the existing structure and shall be uh consistent with all appal design standards in this chapter uh that concludes our presentation I'll be happy to answer any questions should you have thank you thank you K questions from theard I I think it was a very thoughtful analysis and presentation yeah compared to the previous situation um I think it's much improved agreed think it tucks in there nicely really do it almost looks like it could have been there before yeah the old door is a nice tou yeah what what do you think Bob because yeah it's your it's your the neighbor no rubbish that will never need an elevator in [Laughter] your U obviously this is a huge Improvement um and um uh it shows the value of this board um I know I know you voted six zip uh against it uh and and that was the right decision um obviously it's very painful for me um to realize that um we have U you know we're getting to the point where where there's almost no old homes left in Gulfstream and there weren't many to begin with if you remember there were only five homes all in the ocean uh when when this home was built uh and then one was torn down so it's the fourth oldest house in Gulfstream and if we don't as a community try to maintain who we were um then you know we we we lose something that's very precious I think the good news is that the folks that are moving in to this home are it couldn't be nicer um there is a reason that they want to do what they want to do uh and it would be uh a shame if we couldn't help them figure out how to do it as best possible homes change over time uh Gary didn't talk about it but uh when the home was designed uh by a Vanderbilt back in the in 1930 uh uh she ran out of money uh in 1930 just about everybody ran out of money we were in the worst depression the country has ever had and she didn't put uh finish her design for the for the for the building and when it was divided uh part of the design uh could not be executed but uh I uh I did my very best to put it back in uh so it is as close to what she designed um as as physically possible and this this addition is about as close to the original design as physically possible um and the fact that it can be removed I think uh could be a benefit if the home is eventually sold as one as opposed to two homes now you would really like to give the new owner the opportunity to uh you bring it back to as close to the way it was when it was originally designed and built so uh I I I I hope all of you get to to know uh the new owners because I think they're terrific and uh I also think that this process that we have here with you all sitting and and trying to be as helpful as you can uh to the to the new owner is is is really constructive I I think it's a high point uh for uh for gstream and and I applaud you for uh what you do uh and um I wish I were young enough to be able to do it too it's it's it's a it's it's fun as well as uh as helpful to the to the community so with that I'm I'm I'm obviously for the change thank you Bob thank you Bob thank you with that if there are no more questions from the board or the public could I ask for a motion please sure um I'll make a motion to recommend approval of a special exception to permit the construction of an elevator within the side setback of a non forming single family residents per section 70-75 c second Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes I'd like to make a motion to recommend approval of a level three architectural site plan based on a finding that the addition of an elevator to the existing three-story main residence meets the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards and I'll second Mr Lions yes Mr Smith yes Mr roach yes Vice chairman doer yes chairman Murphy yes thank you we now move on to items by staff thank you chairman so the discussion surrounding the formation of an ad hoc committee to address massing seems to be the direction that um at least some on the commission and perhaps the arpb uh would like to go I did relisten to last month's arpb meeting I think that a lot of what we've been doing over the past few years were covered by myself Mr Lions Mr Borman as well other members of the arpb so I want to maybe push us in that direction and uh start with the formation of a committee with some members of the arpb and perhaps some volunteers from the community that you think would be willing to serve and add value to the massing discussion you know we've we've had some really great examples recently of some of the massing issues how they were addressed at 3400 Polo last last month uh although that is a larger lot uh and also we saw one of the older homes in Gulf Stream a few applications ago um 13 I'm sorry um 287 North Ocean to me that really adds color to the fact that large Lots benefit from the sliding scale F and our zoning districts with small lots are really where we need to focus our attention um that really largely eliminates Ocean West and the beach front but I don't want to get to ahead of my too far ahead of myself um because we're really looking at forming a committee and maybe having those discussions on the committee level uh Mr allance has been mentioned as a potential chair for the ad hoc committee so I don't know if he has any thoughts on whether the formation of such a committee to address mass and concerns is the direction we want to go and whether he'd be open to chairing such a committee as well as some others uh on the arpb what I had mentioned last month was we would have this sort of massing update on the agenda for the coming months and one of the things that I had suggested which um I I thought would be probably be very beneficial is having a regular update from that committee to the arpb so with the commission's recommendation that arpb address this arpb would still largely be in control with uh how those discussions are are shaping without necessarily having every member on the arpb on on the committee so with that I'll send it to and discussion and uh as far as what direction the arpb thinks we should go thank you Tre um to remind all of us um the town commission has been raising this as a major concern for a couple of years um and certainly Tom Smith is familiar with that um and I think it's time to act um the inventory of all the homes frankly with older residents uh tells us that there's going to be a lot of turnover in the next 10 use um and so what do we want the core district and in particular I think the mayor has focused on two streets but it doesn't mean it's confined to two streets but Polo and Gulfstream particularly on the interior streets were they're populated by one-story houses and you know we don't want Canyons is a concern um so that's really and it obviously what's compounding this problem is the fact for example on the house on polo street is at 5 feet and the house is going to be 8 feet so a differential of three feet um and this is not peculiar to Florida means Southampton uh has developed some new codes to deal with these kind of issues so other villages in towns are dealing with it as as relates to the composition um I think would be a great idea to get some of the newer residents who are younger to get their perspective um and I would propose two people I think Curtis may know some of them um one is Gary canor um he has a house uh on um palmway um around 2001 or something like that he tore down a one-story house it's on the cove uh and built a one-story house and he originally thought about building a two story house and concluded that he could really accomplish most of what he want wanted under one story um the other person is uh and I've spoken to Gary briefly um and he would be interested in doing it I also SP uh I've been trying to reach Michael Glennon I think many of you know he's shown a a real interest in the town he shown an interest in being involved in the town um so I think that would be another perspective that would be very helpful um and I mean these are my suggestions if there are any other thoughts about people who would be uh helpful to this analysis and ultimately recommendation um you know I'm I'm just one person here so what do you see in the way of specialist subject matter exports Paul in terms of um Architects or you know Town planners or things like that that because to me the composition sort of falls into the categories of stakeholders like you've mentioned the people who live here but also subject met experts they make because can say you're asking the critical question and uh this is something we've been discussing at the commission level U we will hopefully we were going to get a gentleman who's a consultant had been in on Palm Beach and Greg knows him well unfortunately he's very busy um but I haven't given up on pushing Greg we couldn't get him for one or two sessions it wouldn't be you know hours and hours um you we're asking Marty Meer Meer Brian cter had a suggestion um so there any other resources what we need is um people who have have looked at at these issues and thought about the issues there's no magic wand on this at least get some okay this is what we thought about um you know while Gary can said well you know maybe we create incentives for lower profile houses um and you can go on and on with all kinds of different options I mean um well I won't get into it at the moment but yes any thoughts about bringing core competency experts um you know we have views uh but we're not I mean I'm not an expert subject but aren't we going to I mean the the major issue on massing is that younger families this is a a community of basically formerly retired people who were who maybe occasionally would have their families come and visit for a weekend or a few days whereas now we're getting into a situation where younger families are moving in with their children and so they're going to they are going to at least feel that they need more space because of the additional people and uh and that's going to be ongoing so we're always going to be fighting this m ing problem and we we can't and you know you need a certain amount of property to be able to house four people versus two or five people versus two you know I he you Curtis and um again there not a magic W we're trying to find some balance yeah but we can't ignore it oh I agree have you any idea Paul what sort of time frame and I know it's how longs of P string but is this a three-month project a six month a year 18 months anything in your mind in yeah my my feeling is I would hope that in six sessions every other week we could get pretty much to a a recommendation it may not need need to be six I'd like to get it done before we all take off um so you know try to get it done March April May um and you know hopefully we can no more than one hour so it's six hours commitment um and it's all about lining it up scheduling it right so we get the EXP we need to get the experts sooner rather than later yeah um what I'm going to do I've identified six or seven sections of the code that impact in my opinion massing so at least we'll have and I'm going to for the any new participants um Rene was gonna we're going to need the code for those individuals and their assignment was is going to be to review these sections and I'll take a little time with them to take them through the code but then they because otherwise you know we're going to be wasting time so preparation preparation preparation right and the other part is from the subject matter experts or expertise is the Le there is a legal component to this or potential legal consequences of what we're proposing what do you mean like conflict like I mean everybody likes it seems like they like Mark Marshall's opinion and I do especially would would somebody could he help guide us and is or is he gonna say gee if I do then I'm GNA feel I have a conflict when I do present but it's ad hoc committee it's not the arpb oh I oh absolutely I think any suggestions and resources I mean I think I mean he's very busy and everything but he I he feels it as much to protect this town I think is is but Al If he if these recommendations do move forward he's then he's got a real handle on right yeah no no I think it's wonderful maybe even a landscape architect I mean you know I mean whatever resources we think yeah can help us think through a balanced Solution that's workable right um well I just for one I think it won't work unless you have a professional yeah guidance period then I wouldn't even attempt it because we've all talked about this for a number of years and we just kind of fumble around and really don't kind some of the old commission meetings you'll hear me talking about when are we getting in the expert when are we get right no I watch so because you don't want to listen to me no really I mean I'm not well they addressed this in Palm Beach didn't they Greg and had struggle with how a they continue to struggle yeah it's a tough one you you may have we got down 100 foot lot 15 foot side setbacks gives you only 70t to build you're almost forcing him up yeah you know and so one of the things we have to think about is that exact want to let him go further out on each side and further back and they build a nice one story home next to you on the south side I mean I've been in the house two or three times four 5,000 it's a big home a big house yes yeah from theide but it's all one story yes they did it where is Gary cantor's house with he the one store so uh you can go right on palmway palmway um and the house we looked at with the the artificial grass yeah right it's the next house to the West oh okay yeah and it's a very handsome house yeah um okay I know exactly does he own the lot that's vacant somebody owns a lot that's vacant that's Steve okay yeah St is across across the street okay okay well across the water yeah right right sorry and would you envisage the experts here being involved in terms of Greg and Trey oh of course it be no that's that's what I'm saying because they have a and you know and I mean listen we we can find real if others want anyone wants to participate um well I'd like to I'd like to be on it I'd like to be on that too I mean just no I mean Steve Tai for instance is talking about building a house there now I yeah i' like Greg do you want to mention the third party can I just mention uh U the expert uh in what we've been doing uh in that regard so simultaneous to the formation of this subcommittee the staff is reaching out to planning Consultants to determine their strengths and availability uh to participate with the town in our pursuit to address this massing issue and I he's not here today but a shout out to Mr couter uh for providing a recommendation uh to reach out to a firm in Coral Gables uh called Co do Co and partners uh we spoke to Mr do this week I think it was this week and what had what I would uh call a uh fruitful discussion uh regarding the town's Mission their expertise is in creating comprehensive plans special area plans zoning codes design standards and Street designs uh they're located in Coral Gable so uh he did but he did provide other potential uh resources that are closer uh to to us than Coral gab Gables uh and two of those people that he mentioned are uh associated with the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Commission one being the director now the other one a former director who now has her own firm so these are some people that uh we I want to follow up by reaching out to them again to see their availability their expertise I mean uh the the gentleman from I mean Dover Cole and partners has clients all over the United States and uh but he seemed uh he he he seemed intrigued and excited about the mission that we have he in fact and I think Trey said this to you guys when he talked to you on the phone he in fact said there was some way that uh that gstream uh you know partnering up with someone you know an expert uh or other uh uh towns and cities if if we were able to create U some kind of a a plan to address this he he said it would be a model for towns and cities all up and down the peninsula of FL so it's not only G stream has this problem and as I'm finding out so uh he he was excited about it he did offer their services what he did say to me was that typically uh when he uh takes on a a mission or or a job he usually makes three appearances he gets a homework assignment goes home works on it comes back and it's usually around three appearances before committee or board or whatever but I think he's flexible uh I'm not sure he was ready to take it on yet uh because he did give me some some other uh resources that are closer uh in case this might take longer so uh so Greg I think we'd like to start it in the middle of March now we can't get the resources that we need we will have to delay it but uh because there's no point having it without resources so um just have that sure that would be in in my discussion with these people as we reach out actually uh I don't know how we would work this out uh there there was a former Town manager uh in gstream when I believe I was in manalan uh do you remember what it Harrington Harington Scott Harrington actually Scott is a planner by by profession uh and so he was a manager here I don't know how long he was but he's now in Michigan and and has his own Farm Wisconsin in Wisconsin I'm sorry same same place B not in Florida just wanted it to be correct for the record he his his FM is located where it's cold so uh I I am I think Rene and I are going to reach out to him he may have some other resources that he can tell us about down here they're closer than than he by the way I I would urge others um Curtis for example where you live uh they've probably gone through similar kind of issues um with um the issue of raising um first floor I don't know whether you fa it U certainly in in the in the village of Southampton houses on the beach uh there's some old old houses and they were raised seven and8 feet I mean that's a size and also uh Southampton has a composition that's some similar in some ways it's a Gulf Stream where it has the ocean district and then they have the interior of the village that's where I live and they've changed their uh codes including changing their F and they didn't increase it yeah they and so I'm I'm going to get the information from the village of Southampton as a reference point of how they've dealt with it because it's ACC comparable and you know that if there's any other places where they've already addressed it see what they did so and with respect to Paul uh in uh in the town of Palm Beach I have reached out to him he didn't too sound too excited about it he's actually retired but he still works for him 40 at least 40 hours a week so he's he's now a private consultant I I said to Trey if he wants to play golf we'll take him golf you know you know who is who is really uh very much up on this is Senator white house because Rhode Island is going through this and uh Senator White House has gave a presentation up in Rhode Island that I went to about of you know the coastline evaporating and uh a lot of it is going to happen in uh in Rhode Island and and you know they he had they the state of Rhode Island has incredible resources that are online uh as to that's your assignment no it's not my assign I'm delegating that to you I have far too many gentlemen you're on time I'm I'm gonna get checked out yeah you made it clear so can we just have some sort of action points before all Le what's going to happen it sounds like really you've got to get some dates that does that work for you Paul and then everything revolves around when these subject matter experts are available and also we we need to get approval from the town commission uh to spend money on a budget and I will uh I will check out that the road Island get everybody the we we'll follow up on all these you know okay so I just ask that if if the board members know of anyone who would be interested in the committee think about that forward that to Rene we can reach out to them for the purposes of having a commission action with specifically named individuals who maybe want to participate so we could get that formed at the we and we need to be ready for the uh commission meeting the date of March March 8 right okay so that because we want them to approve a thing right and I hope everyone got their appropriate invitation to the behind the hedges party on 27 next week yeah next Tuesday and can I just add or have one more question I W take that much time we need to kind of consider uh perhaps the size of this committee I mean if we have 25 people on it it won't work agreed that's a great question I didn't offer my services but I would but I I didn't I'll drop out my point was I didn't know if you only want like five people sounded like you had we don't need all five of us we can be or something where we could sit there if you want us to but not you can live it to one or two of us but what are you in the most what five six six okay so you already have it sounds like no no we don't have six well one two three Michael Glennon because he will accept or and then you've got the experts and then Paul Tom two three four and Gary you think would do that I know so that's five right there okay so you just need to talk to Michael Glennon yeah yeah I'm sure he'll say yes okay yeah so that's five right there okay list the name so I have it uh Tom yourself yeah Michael Glennon Olivia your daughter no no no no I we can't have two people same from the same family okay I'm available if you H Gary so that's um one two three four I would like at least to had the chair and throw the chair on and the other thing is because chair yeah yes yeah yeah yes and yeah because we're Malcolm on you need to Loop somebody off me off you you've been dealing this is the commission put Tom on it please yeah Tom's here yeah I have Tom and Paul so Curtis there room for Curtis no no I'm dropping out because now you're droing I can be exal there is six I have Paul as the chair correct Paul the chair then I have Tom Gary Michael Malcolm and Curtis so that's six okay with that any does the public have any comment for 12 years and it's a big concern for me just my property which isn't that old but compared to you know the original property if we should be in a position where we have to sell what might happen do you want to make that a formal part of the record because I know you came in and you weren't sworn in do you want to make that a formal the record no okay fair that's fine that's fine in that case um yeah okay thanks everybody I'd like to adjourn this morning's meeting thanks everyone