turn youall all on excuse me good morning everyone I'd like to welcome you to this morning's meeting of the architecture review planning board of Thursday January the 25th and with that Renee please could you take a roll call Mr Lions here Mr roach here Mr Smith here chairman Murphy here also let it be known that our present is our town manager Greg Denham assistant Town attorney nazaro alternate board member Brian Colter and myself thanks Renee and with that can I welcome a couple of people back thank you Paul Tom I was remiss last time and Brian welcome thank you and so we now go on to um the review of the minutes of our meeting of December 28th have you all had a chance to review them yeah and I would like to draw a note that on point three um the 2915 Blue Water Cove it was actually lock three not lock 12 we can just make that adjustment in the minutes and with that could I ask for a motion please to approve those minutes Mo they approved as presented and amended second Mr Lions yes Mr Rach yes Mr Smith yes chairman Murphy yes and I also let it be known that ice chairman doerty is now present as well thank you thanks Renee um draw your attention uh to the dates for the future meetings as normal if any of us aren't available please could we give Renee as much notice as possible and with that we move on to the public hearing part of meeting this morning um has there been any expart communication no no on my part um Rob Campbell did ask me if I'd seen the plans and that was before I got my packet and I advised him to come to the town if he wants to see them and that's that's my conversation and he did oh I I'm 30 seconds ago Bob ganger and I just walked in together and I said oh you're the neighbor one of the applicants and we just chatted for 30 seconds mention that thankful Renee please could you administer Oaths to anybody who wishes to speak today can somebody get Gary nothing but Tru to help you got I do thank you make sure I get get your names if I do not know who and with that we move on to the first application in front of us this morning and I invite chat you your team we go ahead and start yes yeah I'm pulling it up go ahead okay I'm Adriana finnvold from finol architecture good morning good morning all right so basically we are proposing um to do an addition to an existing one-story house it's a detach garage um the property itself is about 29,000 Square F feet the existing home is 4,900 Square fet total roofed area and we're doing an addition for a 3car detached garage adjacent to it to the north side of the property so if you can see you can see the house and then the detach garage is next to it on the north side project here um it's a one story Edition um the idea is to maintain the same look as the house has if you can I'm sorry Rene if you can come down a little bit to the first the second picture of the house there we go this is the existing house um we basically are taking and we can't see the windows there but we're taking this similar windows that we have in the house to the addition if you can go down to the uh rendering which is here it's one of the last pictures on that keep going there we go there we go so this ultimately would be the front facade of the house the house is kind of tucked in into the lot it's a big lot um and you'll be able to see that on the landscape plan better or the site but we've taken some of the windows that are facing the water the inter Coastal to face the front of the house originally we actually had the garage doors on this side as well but um on a couple of the preliminary meetings we were suggested to turn the garage doors to the north side um nobody can really see that there's a big hedge between Chad's lot and the lot next to it um so it's a you know it's a pretty basic building it's 900 square fet um um we're still way under under the uh required F or the max lot coverage for this property um the uh the total square footage after uh our proposed structure is going to be 5865 and uh it's uh the max allowed is 8251 so um you know we're matching the roof tiles and the house was just the exterior was just remodeled to update and you know change the roof uh for all repair reasons the the windows everything's impacted so we're matching the same same things you want to talk a little bit about the landscape sure landscape plan here called a version of it and is Adriana oh first of all my name is Joe Peterson I'm from Boon I'm the landscape architect for the project um we're just really just cleaning up the front where the roadway is there's a lot there are a lot of um small trees catly guavas pyy date palms um lustrum that we're removing clean it up open it up the front um 30 feet of existing clusia hedge that we're removing as well and we're adding Landscaping to around the house to make it more presentable um up here in front of the master bath the entryway we're redoing with palms and of course the addition both sides via shrubs anden via standards and shrubs we're also adding landscaping around the pool some more palms and on the back side at the north um northeast corner that's about it well would you guys mind at least picking that up and so they can see the color rendering this is um the roadway where we're removing the small the small trees they AR in the greatest shape anyways and it just kind of opens up the lot from the roadway um the clusia Hedge was right across here I do have a picture of it you want to see it existing and we're just adding this Landscaping here adding Landscaping to the front entry this is what the addition is and we're adding Landscaping both sides around the existing pool deck there is anything but grass so we're adding pal cluster palms and smaller shrubs and then we're the same the back here the same house we're adding m some TR as well was there any thought what it's detached um any thought of was that ever going to be an attached garage or why actually we did went we we did go go ahead if you wantan to thanks for that so I'm you can go down that than um we met with the town and okay very can you just confirm the roof Tils please um it says low profile concrete and it's the dark gray yeah dark gray flat seamless there's actually a picture in here too Rene what what was just right okay so it'll show you the different initi how about the neighbors uh Renee any yes the Campbell did come in and look um but then they once they saw everything they were fine okay and are they to the north who they C uh what proper to the West the West I'm sorry information is just of this proper is be9 get it oh the one with the history oh it is it's coming down though yeah yeah yep we I I had asked attorney uh whether this U attached accessory building was in compliance with setback just because of the angle a little confusing and Trey if you could come in on that I'm sorry sir what was that the the subject you and I spoke about earlier on setback right so um this is an oddly shaped lot so there is some sort of a mathematical formula to determine the lot width for the purposes of um determining the setbacks I believe that we had talked about that already I just I could not find that um in my email history corresponds from our planner um so you if the board wishes to just you know approve this subject to the plan or confirming the setbacks are met we can we can go ahead and do that but I I cannot say with absolute certainty given the um my ignorance of what what that formula is and how that determines the setbacks whether the setbacks are met as I sit here right now well just a matter of protocol we you know has to comply with setb absolutely yes I mean right in terms of sort of you've done the because of the three garage's doors aren't allowed to face the street you really gone above and beyond in terms of facing as far away really as you can so I agree um yeah the setbacks I mean on the we actually had a meeting um that was a while ago but to establish the setbacks for any kind of addition that we were going to to pursue so yeah 8 five here so it sounds like you're very confident you yes match any kind yeah we met I I I I have my notes about that actually but it was a couple of years ago so we established before we even started any kind of design work okay yeah I know that was the Campbell's concerns as well when they want yes it was yes okay well with that could I ask if there are no more questions yeah I'll I'll uh make the motion I'd like to make a motion to approve a level two architectural site plan to permit the construction of a one-story addition of a 920t detached three-car garage structure with storage to match the existing house and to confirm that the detached building does Meet The Gulfstream setback requirements second please second Mr Lions yes Mr roach yes Mr Smith yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes thank you thank you 18 18t all morning Mr chairman and board members uh my name is Gary leopolis uh ge architecture our address is 1045 East Atlantic Avenue we are the uh Architects for uh 1465 North Ocean um this use this is a very unique piece of property and I I normally don't start out a presentation by talking about the neighbors automatically but Bob ganger and I go way back and I was uh also into of the impression that he had already been contacted about this project the reason why it's so important about this project it's a very unique project it's almost like family because you literally have two buildings that are merg together and it's a very unique situation here in Gulf Stream the next well first of all this is this is just the there's several uh parts of this building so we got a little video flying over the site and you'll get to see how both properties literally touch each other in certain areas should click in in a second um so anyways I believe and and anything that I say that might be mistaking on the age of these homes I'm sure Bob can correct I believe they were done in around uh 1928 as far as uh the building was done I believe in like the 30s the properties were separated Christian is this video going or not it's not running it's not running okay um so what we're dealing with today are two things one is what I call basic needs uh our clients bought this property and it is like I said a unique piece of property but it doesn't have to car garage so the first thing they did talk to us was we'd like to have a garage um what you're going to see if we want we can just skip over the video yeah we we are still running on half a server so that's the issue okay no problem so what happens is here basically You' got 1443 North Ocean and then you got our site right here literally literally you have buildings either touching the property lines or connecting okay um now on the next slide what happened was this is I think um the front building which I'm going to say is A1A right over here I believe that was built in the 30s that was part of probably the original compound in the middle and I'm going to call these villas for this presentation the middle I believe was done in uh 2013 and then you have the primary resident which is on the ocean and what you'll see is this was built in 28 and was attached to the building to the south of us um what we're talking about doing is the following as far as your Square footages go the effective water area is 2,648 you're looking at the allowable F of 6929 we will be 6921 what we're doing with the Viller in the middle we're going to be demoing an existing bathroom and once we eliminate that bathroom we're taking a gym that's in there and converting that into a garage that's 51 Square ft then we're proposing an elevator which is 43 square feet that's going to go to the primary residence this residence is um is a very unique residence in the sense that the primary bedroom is on the second floor uh it is two and a half stories but it actually only has one bedroom the top floor they use it as a little office it's kind of like a loft space so we will go through that for you and that the sense is unique um you'll also see the setbacks so setbacks are obviously 15 ft uh clearly you know we have non-conformant structures both to the south of us and us um we looked at it like what was the best solution to try and do an elevator um and I'll go over the two options that we had that we felt were something to look at one seemed more viable uh the next slide so next side is a blow up of what I'm calling Villa in the middle and then the main residence so right here what you do have is you got a full bathroom you have a linen closet and a shower the shower and the Lin closets are going to get demoed we're going to gut the rest of that bathroom convert it into a closet and then we're going to come internally and create a bathroom for this guest bedroom and this would be the garage the exit is an internal Courtyard if you will Motor Court so nobody's going to see this garage door although it is facing west The Villa if you will on the west side or I should say yeah west of this on A1A will block it when you come over to the main residence you have two entrances right now one on the North side there was a colonade a trellis colonade done in 2013 you enter in the main house what you have is the dining room the living room kitchens all along the north side they have a breakfast area then they have their family room and right here this tower that actually connects with Bob's that basically is their circulation going up they do have a powder on the ground floor and then it goes up with their stairs the next slide so here's what we are proposing again this comes away this is the garage it's facing the motor Court closet full bathroom right in there and then when you come over here basically the elevator the elevator comes into this Tower and it has a powder room which is existing we're just shifting it over one of the other things we've had to do for the ground floor is widen some of these existing openings for a wheelchair accessibility um the issue is this is that normally when you're buying property you're aware of situations our client does have uh a disease that's going to affect her mobility in the years to come her husband wants to look at these options and that's really why we're even looking at an elevator uh we normally don't deal with uh this type of stuff meaning our firm but we felt it was something to at least try to help them out um next slide so you've got the proposed over here and over here this is how we looked at at an alternate so as an alternate route for an elevator we looked at going into their living room um from a practical standpoint it doesn't make sense to plop an elevator in the middle of the living room plus as we go up the building you'll see it just didn't seem to make sense and that's part of the criteria that we looked at that you guys have when evaluating something like this this is a non-conformity we are actually building something within a setback and we wanted to go over that with you but we did evaluate what was the best approach for this elevator without affecting the actual structure so much again these are old buildings and you want to be respectful in that and that's how we looked at it next slide this is the living room so what would happen is if we were to propose an elevator it actually would come right into this corner and go straight up through the roof again doing a lot more damage than than positive to this structure so that's why we started going the direction we did next slide please uh on the second floor it's their walk-in closet for the primary so you know it it's not exactly practical I can we work around it probably if you had to go through there with a wheelchair you could uh it just didn't seem to make sense to us uh next slide please uh so this is showing the second floor again kind of unique in the sense it's just a primary bedroom you got another bathroom and here are your two options so we went with the elevator come right off the stairs and go right into the hallway next slide please and then the third floor so when you got to the third floor again office if I had the elevator here I would have to go further into the structure in order to get into this landing area again we kind of felt that coming into this exterior Corner made the most sense for this elevator uh next slide please so this is the uh Villa in the middle um this is the existing condition so is pretty much a flat wall right now there are two roof Heights we are proposing to lift off a portion of the roof where we're demoing the bathrooms and everything and raise it 1 fo6 total height of bearing point would be 11 fo6 um and then you're going to be seeing that we would be having a garage door facing this motor Court the rest of the building stays the same next slide please so here's what we do have here we have this garage is actually mimicking the other one that's in the front Villa we have a window that we're putting into the closet and then you're seeing how the roofies are all lining up uh we're going to be taking um coina Stone and wrapping these openings trying to mimic what's already out there next please all right so here's where you got your main structure um right over here would be Bob's house this is the existing Tower and this is right here you're seeing where your setbacks are we're looking at right in this corner right here to that property line put in the elevator there is an entrance here we're going to the the the owners love the door so we're saving the door we're going to repurpose that door within the structure but we're eliminating the access from there this would only be an elevator that you would access from the inside of the house next slide please so there it is um what we're trying to do right now is we we we've got two options we can put Windows in there they would be false we blank out the backside right now we're proposing to take the decorative shutters have them in a closed position they'll have all the hardware on it so it'll look like somebody just closed these shutters onto the windows next slide so here's where you look at the overview basically you've got these two buildings that are connected 43 squ ft here and we've got this element over there in the front vill but there's that motor core so you know it makes sense we have a garage here and then we would have a garage there facing each other next please this is just to show the uniqueness of the property and how the property lines go and how they were created over many years ago next this one is definitely quite unique in when you see the tower right here and you see Bob's house over here next please um there's actually a door that that went to the adjacent property that now is sealed off uh next there's looking at what we're talking about so again I'm looking at from the perspective of how much do you go into the existing structure if the elevator is to go here we'd be going through this roof here breaking through here coming up and I have to go further towards the east in order to get into the third level next please there's the door I was talking about that they want to re reuse that door but this is the area that would the the shaft if you will come up uh you can actually see over here Bob's building connector there's gutter down SP coming over next please again another overview shot we're kind of trying to show this motor Court like I think there's always a concern are you're going to see the garage doors and everything I want to make it sure that everybody realizes you won't be seeing this garage door next right now that's the side that we're looking at on this structure it's basically all hedged up where we're going to be straightening that out and doing the garage next just it's a it's a very uh awkward situation when you pull in there because there's really nowhere to park and we really think this is going to relieve them a lot next please that would be the finished product facing west of the Villa next this is looking North so you know the majority of this element right here is existing we are adding 5et to it uh we would be copying or you would I should say replicating The Motif that goes around the top of it to make it look like it was always part of this next that's the west elevation again showing fixed shutters next and this is the South elevation again we're doing the same thing with the elevator or proposed elevator that we would have fixed shutters so there are no windows looking towards the South and the next slide please so this is really you know what we're looking at today that we're we're basing this presentation on uh it's town code section 7075 C additions to structures with existing non-conforming set effects clearly that we are that we're non-conforming uh specific standards for review coning location for the additional areas are impractical significant more expensive or having a significant more expensive or having a significant adverse impact on the site plan in terms of the overall site design or relationship between the site plan elements including but not limited to structures patios driveways and Landscape Part B the location of the addition shall represent a logical extension of the existing floor plan in terms of function and design C the exterior design of the addition shall represent a logical extension of the existing structure and shall be consistent with all the applicable design standards in the chapter um that's how we approach this uh we're hoping uh that the board would agree with that um and as far as our budding neighbor we will work work out whatever we need to work out to try and make him happy too because I again it's a long history and I I think everybody's got to be neighborly so with that that concludes my presentation should you have any questions happy to answer thank thank you Gary Gary I'd stay at the podium I get stru yeah um I'm gonna dive in straight away with Bob this is straight next door to you one of our always we are ask what is the feedback from the neighbors um you are more than ideally suited to give that feedback is what what's your feedback on this proposal please sit [Laughter] down um I didn't swear in so uh you swear to tell the truth the whole through nothing but the truth so he you go I do um learned about this U on Monday when when I received uh a u a mailing uh the no neighborly mailing or whatever you call it um and I came in on Tuesday uh and read through the plans um and um I was pleased to hear that Gary was in charge of this Caper because he's a very capable architect and and and and a very upstanding guy um I am uh unfortunately uh shocked that I never met these people even though they live under the same roof that I do um I have no idea why they need an elevator uh I've only seen uh I I assume you said it was the wife I I've only seen her uh from a distance uh I've never met her or talked to her so I have no idea what her physical condition is U and u i I'll take it that she feels they need an elevator uh but um I don't know about you but I am pretty shocked that uh a house which by the way was built in 1930 not 28 uh and would be U uh would be uh changed fairly dramatically and I'm going to say give a little background um as you know um I fell in love with this house uh in on Easter day of 1969 when I literally broke into it uh it was Easter day and I couldn't find the realtor and my dad and I went to see the house um and he fell in in love with it um and we have U we closed at the end of the year uh and and uh uh it is part of my life I mean I I it's not just a home uh it's it's who I am more than than anything that may be good news or bad news but it's true and U so uh I I've lived through quite a bit of uh challenges uh uh in in in in in living at 146 excuse me 1443 but um the more pregnant challenge was when it was acquired by a gentleman uh and uh I was told uh that I would uh that that he was potentially a criminal and that the house uh was they had advised him to buy a house that was as much money as he could possibly raise and to put as much money as he possibly could into the house house so that if he were incarcerated uh his family would maintain the residence and he hired U an outstanding architect Mark Marsh uh and um and I was told never to enter the house uh so that if I were to testify in a court case I could honestly say that have never been inside of the house but good good news is I knew Mark Marsh and I was able to talk to him about the home and that it was uh something that U uh would require a great deal of money to uh fix up but it would be something that he would uh it would be a gorgeous home uh and uh he worked very hard to follow the buyer's instructions and to build um the home to restore the home to the way it might have looked in 1930 not 19 28 as the records show um and uh and and when I talked to Mark yesterday because I only found out about this thing essentially yesterday uh uh he was uh appalled uh that uh they were going to make physical changes to the main house the the new new houses are Are all uh uh designed for the for the new owner uh and uh Gary's got a challenge in terms of taking a garage that has a weight room in it and and and and make making an into a garage uh and by the way I think you should see the whole plan rather than just you know what it what it looks like now because it is a u uh it'll be a challenge it can be done but it'll be a challenge and moving utensils moving the air conditioning around and all that kind of stuff and by the way because this was all one piece of property um the movement of all this stuff is going to affect us considerably because uh it's it'll be you know 10 15 feet away from our wall and and where our pool is and I spent a lot of time in the pool so I know I'll know about it um but but uh back to the reason I'm standing up here is uh the idea of an elevator I understand if the if the uh new homeowner uh is unable to get upstairs that that's a real Challenge and if they didn't know she had a problem when they bought the house you have to assume that you know they they have every every right to try and figure out a way to uh mitigate the fact that she can't get up the stairs um but that notwithstanding um uh what you see in the p in the illustration uh which are a bit misleading because it's a it's a drawing it's not is not really reality but when you what what you see uh is is clearly going to change the look of a home which um uh at one point in time we had hoped that the that that our neighbor and we could together could get it registered as a as a historic Place uh I mean it is historic it was built by Vanderbilt uh and it it is probably one of the two or three it is the fourth oldest home in in in gstream at this time and obviously I've sat where you sit and I've been on the commission and I recognize that U you as we move farther into the 2100s we it's going to be a challenge to maintain the Beauty and the and the and the historic significance of this wonderful town so uh I I don't have an answer I can't say don't do it do it uh change but the one thing I will say is we just can't change an old house that is that is you know historic in character and and make it look like a new house I mean that's that's not what we want to do so however this is done should be done Tastefully uh and um and and and maybe not at all uh maybe it's something that we shouldn't do and find another way to get the the new owner up the stairs uh or up to the second floor I don't think if it's it's she she needs to get to the third floor uh that it's it's just it's an office now and may maybe just not a place to be so um I I know this you you know you're you're working with rules M and I'm working with rules and my heart and uh I would be um extremely I I live through um three years it took Mark Marsh to F to restore the uh the uh uh guest house by the way it was the guest house he's got reversed that was built first and from the guest house the new owner of andil uh designed herself uh the the main house um and and I although this has nothing to do with the price of eggs um I felt so strongly about the place uh I wrote a book about it um it was uh sold I sold didn't make make enough copies so sold them all out but but uh it was judged best non-fiction uh in 19 in 2005 uh so there are a lot of people in the in in the country and in some cases in the world because it was exported for to awful lot of people have read it and because you could have a book about architecture and it tells that this is a book about something that happened that was important to me uh and I think important to uh the you know the society that says that when you build something that's really good keep it thanks both with that the board uh comments please Gary um Bob mentioned something that I thought about too is is that I don't see the real need to get to the third story with an elevator I don't know if she would need to get up there did you look at only going two stories and either e either putting it within the confines of the house or or just two stories in that loc so two things first of all whatever Bob says I'm going to agree with because you know I respect them that much but the the so no does it have to go to the third floor no she's using that as her office right now but I'm sure she could work around that um once I go into the structure I personally as an architect I get it the exterior but I personally say it's more damaging to go into the structure and disrupt everything versus adding an appendage on an appendage can always come off which is the beauty of retaining the original structure so I look at it that way uh this is the more logical one of preserving a structure versus me cutting into it if I cut into it even if I cut into the roof I am within the setback so I would be following the actual guidelines for Gulfstream and I'd be able to do that I just didn't think that was the right approach du to the way the structure is so I was trying to respect it definitely was never looking at it as disrespecting it but again anytime you add on to something you can always take it off once I go in that ain't coming out um the folks do love this home they do appreciate everything that Bob even said and and or what the previous owners did uh they just fell in love with it um again her status if you saw her today um you would not think she has any issues she has already stated she'd be fine with bringing in all her records to show everybody the need is probably going to be there they don't want to deal with that um they they obviously are hoping it never happens but there is a condition there and this was not something they planned on uh but I respect whatever way you guys go this was just something that we thought was a logical approach thank you I have a quick question um so uh when Mr ganger drives down his driveway and he looks North uh would this appendage be visible to him I would think it would uh I don't know about if it was only two stories because I'm not sure about the vegetation I mean I don't think I I normally don't want vegetation to be the rules that I can hide something right but I believe it two story uh and then I need more input from Bob if he thinks he can see the two story because there are parts of two stories see what he sees I'm not I'm not sure what he would see he would definitely see from the third I agree if we went down to two it would mitigate that given the proximity of the two houses by definition they're attached um is it intrusive at all in terms of when uh Rob ganger was in his home having this elevator I I just don't mean how how impactful or not is it on him to enjoy his property well due to we have it all sealed up and there's no visibility I would say it's not impacting in that sense again it's going to be quiet I mean these elevators you can if anybody has these uh residential elevators you can't even hear them when you're inside them they go so slow but they do serve a purpose uh and again this is just serving a purpose um I it's definitely not going to be impacting any other way except for the historic part that Bob has indicated and one other quick question um I'm confused by this elevation this is on the road right no this is in their motor Court Motor Court it's the internal Villa that it is facing west but there's a okay I was confused I had I and you really can't see the house from the from the road I might buy it yesterday and it's way back on the property yeah one of the things we always try and avoid is massing and when you look at the proposal for the three story elevator you've increased that vertical mass and you've got the this looking at the west elevation here yes yeah and it just is so apparent it it looks you know one of the things we look at is fitting being consistent with the existing design and the historical aspect of it and you know um when you buy a home you do know the Heritage you've got um and the effort you've shown here to join the designs and whatever but at the end of the day it does look like a column stuck on the side of a property and I know you can't see it from the street that's just my comment um that that and I don't know what you can do with an elevator shaft you know as you said you've got faux Windows right you know they look in but it's so alien to the rest of the building and if I may so if I took that element and I moved it to the North yep I think it's more detrimental to this house yeah and I'd be in the i' would be in our rights if you will with setbacks and everything and we'd blend it as much as we could but I agree with you that that this although the vertical is still there I can't say that oh I'm increasing the mass and guen because I'm obviously adding a 5 by5 Element if you will going up in front of it um as as we stated uh two stories would probably make a big difference yeah I think two stories in that same location would certainly be an improvement would you think so Bob really don't want to speak because I can't [Music] imagine it is lovely old door there when you come in uh it's peaceful putting a don't there I'm sorry I just can't you know like everything else once it's done you kind of forget what it used to look like but it seems to me that when you have a house designed uniquely by a lady and by the way that was the only house when this was designed she designed our house from the window upstairs which uh just looking out over the over the ocean say you know I like this I like that and she was not a professional architect her son was an architect or at least went architect school yeah but it's there's no house like it is truly unique and um and Mar went to such trouble to maintain the look down to very small detail um when he when he destroyed the house he was you know he understands why they're doing what they're doing and he recognizes that in gam there are other internal elevators to get people up to in older houses but this is really a unique situation and and to care his credit I mean he's done everything you can think of to make it look like it might have been there before uh you're really changing something forever so yeah thanks po I think you really long and hard maybe help Gary solve a problem which could happen in the future it's quite possible that this lady would have I mean I've never seen her I don't know what she looks like so I did say yeah she's a young woman I and you know maybe 10 years before she needs and by that time they may decide they'd rather live someplace else it just seems to be that we we are all nice people here and we want to help so it's not like we this is a right bad person that you want to to suff we can help her let's do it let's do it when it needs to be done I'm not convinced the elevator really can't be put inside especially since it can only go to the second floor you know because you mentioned the third floor is a little awkward but I think I heard that but if you just do the two floors seemed easier I I'd like to maybe I'd like to see a study done what what what physically do you have to do it to put it inside how much what do you lose and how bad what you know that type of thing because I don't feel like I have enough of a this versus that I know you're asking for the exterior but right um so on the inside yeah you are obviously cutting up the ground floor you're going to go up through whatever is on that second floor right to create that shaft on the ground floor we will be cutting into the foundation because we're GNA have to build the foundation for that um and probably the biggest thing is just disrupts the existing floor plan how it flows right and that's the part where I'm I guess my eyes are getting worse and worse but I don't really see how difficult or you know what the disruption Chris let's go uh to the uh ground floor yeah I can't read it but a2. z0e A200 E Yeah that's the ground floor and then the next sheet A2000 is the second floor oh no yes that's sor meaning you you Gary you put it inside that southernmost piece that touches Bob's house someplace in that area right right so this would be the logical place to go of course and and I would say that it is actually and I'll give credit to Mark Marsh because whoever did the work in there is phenomenal it's almost like going into an Addison Meer the ceiling and everything so yes but can it be done yes it can let's go to the next Slide the second floor ouch right in the middle of so now when we come upstairs in the if I'm in the tower then obviously it will be now this bathroom I do not believe is historic I think that's been renovated probably when Mark Mar guys were doing it but what happens is you got it here so yes you would be gutting out that bathroom because you got to get the stairs we don't want to touch the stairs we do believe those are the original stairs so it just makes for a lot of domino changes I'm not going to say it can't be done it definitely can be done uh but it's a lot more work uh to the internal of the structure yeah I the challenge we've got here is obviously people want to modernize bring up to date um you've got a property that's nearly a 100 years old um and in terms of planning ahead everybody plans ahead and who knows what's happens in terms of timeing but from my point of view that three-story option looks like an elevator shaft on the side of the house and that's from a non technical point of view it it just sticks out like a sore thumb I can't put it any other way I mean that isn't really I know you've gone through hoops to meet the code Etc and we have the challenge always of applying the code and we can't just turn turn around and say we don't like it or we do like it but in terms of the other criteria we bring to this meeting is is it consistent with the existing design and to me that looks like an elevator shaft on the side of the house right that's that's my opinion so Bob your idea of the second well I'm not against the lift because people when I say me neither no I understand people plan for their Futures and it's not our position to look at people's personal details or whatever their own reasons and whatever to mitigate whatever's ahead however that just doesn't look appropriate you know possibly Bob Mark and you could maybe game get together and say hey this may not be working with the exterior and maybe maybe the three of you gentlemen could could maybe see how an interior might possibly work I also um this is this is a very very critical project and I I think it wouldn't bother me if we spend a little bit more time with it in terms of certain you know another meeting and another hearing um because I think it's that important nobody wants to delay any project but living in the home and they're not this isn't like they're waiting to move in or anything so I think it could use more study I like the my B currently caught wind of it on Tuesday maybe it was out of town so and um also maybe even a full a large set of plans at some point because or just blowing up this section much more to see what what is existing and what really we do because we we've all Built Homes we understand we look at plans from not Architects but that would that would help me a lot to make it decision but I I I can't sit here and say I would vote for any kind of approval today so recommendation to the commission I don't think we're in a position to make it um to push this push this forward this won't be going forward this stays with you level oh no I'm sorry my bad my bad it does go forward y my bad y now go down this path I just want to get confirmation from the town that uh the inter work would be in it wouldn't require any special that's right so first I just want to say um I guess ask a question do we have any issues with any other elements of the project are we really just focusing on the Elevator Shaft or the the elevator um and then I would say that you know we would work very closely with the architect and the owner and and hope that you know Mr ganger as a neighbor would be involved and if we felt like it was not a good decision to cut into the structure consistent with sort of what he said and then you know and if Bob is is on board with that um we would steer them back to to the arpb but if they were doing something interior that would not come before you that that's correct it would be U um it would not be in the setback or it would be in an ex it' be an interior renovation essentially that would not require arpb or commission review so with that Tom you were saying the rest of the points in the plans are acceptable the garage change yeah the an extension is that um still permissible with everyone it's all within the setback though isn't it the is y I thought that was a great plan I like that yeah so um so we just want to get Gary we could move forward with the other items excluding the elevator y thank you very much well that's what we could do so are you going to withdraw or defer is what yeah do you want to withdraw this well I I thought I was under the impression that maybe we maybe my wrong impression that we could actually vote on the centerpiece that doesn't have any bearing on setbacks or anything and to get that vote so at least they mo that we just need to know the special exception would definitely be uh withdrawn or deferred however you guys want to word it so we can further review it y okay with that then we need three motions one so we have our first motion which is regarding the special exception so if you would like to defer that to the next meeting uh and then then the next one would be the the demo of the bathroom and then the last one you would just remove the last last bit and add an elevator to the existing three story main residence so if if that is what the board desires the next meeting is February 9th if you want to defer it to that do you think Gary that will give you enough time or do you want to I'm gonna I'd like is it possible to push back another month I think we'll need more time refer to the March meeting then it it saves him a little money if you withdraw he's going to have to come back with a whole new application def so defer to March 8 and we do try and help you as much as possible on this one no I appreciate it guys I definitely we defer to the March meeting we're first going to make a motion to defer the first item yes yes to the to our March meeting yes I will then make a motion to recommend approval of a demolition permit to permit a partial demolition of the existing bathroom at the guest house I'll suck that Mr Lions yes Mr roach yes Mr Smith yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes further i' like to make a motion to recommend approval of a level three architectural site plan review to permit the partial demolition of existing bathroom and guest house convert the gym into a garage that's it period period I'll second that Mr Lions uh yes Mr roach yes Mr Smith yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes uh Renee what date again is with March but I need a motion for that we haven't done it yet we haven't done it yet no okay y I'll do it I'd like to make a motion to recommend a deferral Renee that's that's the commission meeting we'd be looking at March oh my bad 28th I mean so does that or or alternatively March 28th February 22 no life that's no Gary what am I asking you because the February date that we gave you would it would be the 22nd was given more I got you yeah let's let's try for that yes that so that helped you out yes thank you very much thank you my February feary 2 okay okay 2 I'd like to make a motion to recommend deferral of a special exception to February 22nd 2024 to permit the construction of an elevator within the side setback of non-conforming single family residents per section 70 75c second oh second Mr Lions oh yes Mr roach yes Mr Smith yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes thank youone Gary does everything make sense to you yes it does thank you malcol before we move on I'm kind of curious um Mr ganger said he only learned about this a few days before the meeting we sent out notices I sent out the notice on January 11th so I can't help the USPS okay so they they weren't they were sent out on the 11th so they should have received them two days later or maybe one day here in Gulf Stream but I can't help the US I send them out 10 days prior to the meeting which is what I have to do by law okay thank you okay thanks and with that we move on to the third application Gary yes sensive data V here yes it is I'm sorry for that um no problem Mr chairman and board members uh it again for the record my name is Gary leop GE architecture our address is 1045 East Atlantic Avenue deloy Beach um yes it was about a year and a half ago I guess we were here on this property um now it does help that uh my client is actually sitting at this table but I think it's it's a unique thing in that you know normally when somebody buy something they want to totally go in a different direction um definitely this has been pleasing that we've staying in the same style which is what I call the Timeless Bermuda style I think you're going to find that uh in a lot of ways this new design is actually uh what i' would like to say better than the previous one with regards to setbacks things like that the massing and everything and how it affects the surrounding neighbors um on the next slide well this that that right there obviously well we'll go back don't worry about it oh there you go this is one of the driveways one of the things that's unique about this property there is a fig tree that we are maintaining and we need to maintain and we are doing a if you will circular driveway designing around that this is actually an angle looking at the home from the uh Southwest direction or I should say Northwest Direction uh next slide is vicinity map which I'm sure you're all familiar with it's Polo driver on the west side we're just south of Banyon Road and we are in that northeast corner of the Cove uh next please and next so what we have here right now is the light blue line is referencing the ground floor the dark blue is the second floor uh you're seeing your setbacks that we have so on the North and the South Side we have to be a minimum of 233 we exceed those in the front the garage portion does come close to 30 foot set back it's about in extra as far as uh 30 feet4 now what happens is on the rear the previous project we actually had the family room coming out we did come in for a special exception we've got it to go down to 40 feet in this case we are literally more than 50 feet back the second floor is literally 65 ft back so again it's really taking it back in more next please there's your affected lot earrings and what we're dealing with squ footage is about the same we basically are taking this area here along the bulkhead we just subtract that out to get it to the back side of that you end up with a house that's F of 7472 ft we are just 5 Square fet less than that we are 7,467 next please um again we're looking at the second or I should say the ground floor we're showing you how your front setback is one of the other criteria that you do have is for the front covered entry it has to be between 8 and 11 ft this is is actually at 8 ft uh basically an open plant we do have the primary vent down here you walk into an open floor plant kitchen breakfast area family room we do have some trellises along the water side and their covered porch which is also giving a more relief as you see the elevations you're going to see that this building does go in and out creating a lot of uh reduced massing if you will of the structure uh you can see the rear setback if you wanted to get the special exception you can go to there how far back we are from there next please second floor so the second floor one of the things you look at is the code talks about you cannot be more than 50% of it we're actually at 38% of the ground floor uh with 275 square feet again you look at these setbacks off the bulkhead you're talking 65 feet when it steps back off this Terrace you're talking 72 feet from the South Side 47 from the property line on the north side 518 and then of course the front has a couple undulations where you're basically looking at 46 to 48 ft again being well off of what we call the property lines and the public rideway next so here's your front elevation um the code also talks about that front covered entry porch uh if you will cannot exceed 14 ft we have what you call a Flemish Gable uh feature that we are doing it is at the 14 ft your maximum roof height is 30 we are at 29 94 the previous one was only 4 in more it was 298 again you're starting to see the setbacks on the sides how we're coming in we are trying to create a balance with regards to the Bahama shutters we've actually introduced this is at the top of the stairwell which is basically a classic H pediment Gable feature that we have there um but we do feel that this is going to have a nice elegant approach one of the things that this house has versus the last one we did last one had deeper overhangs with what we call decorative Outlook and brackets this we tailored it in and went with decorative molding which we think is more of a classical look uh next please so here you're looking at the North elevation this part is relatively similar to what we did before we do have side loaded garages uh what I am shading over onto the right hand side are just these is a perlar and some trellises it's basically open space if you will again showing the side setbacks or I should say from the bulkhead 65 52 the the dimensions change as you go around the house but in every case you'll see that we do exceed all the setbacks and are trying to be respectful to the uh budding neighbors next please uh this is your South elevation again similar the blue is featuring The Open trellises that we do have and again you're seeing the variation of all the setbacks one of the things that we did on the second floor the uh bed rooms up there basically when we have large roof areas off of these windows we're not really pushing a lot of windows so as far as looking North and South there really won't be anything that you're looking at so again we're giving that privacy to the abing neighbors next please this is the rear elevation now we are talking about the side setbacks again but one of the things we're talking about too is the bulk of this elevation when you look at trellises you look at covered porch open Terrace there's a good portion of that elevation where 43% of it actually open okay so it's not all solid massing again kind of mentioned before we talked about Bob's uh property and everything this is a 2d elevation right so when you're looking at 2D elevation it's very hard to see it because the fact that your eye level is at around 15t which is not realistic so you know although from here from a boat you might see it but when you look at all our elevations that we have you're not going to see it that way uh next please so Landscaping l so I describe what we're doing we do have our fig tree right in the center here you have the driveway coming around this way driveway coming around that way it does go up to the side loaded garri doors there uh we have the uh LCA hedge that we're doing along the south side and along the north side and then it gets towards the front we taper it down and we're going with PTO carpus when we take the P carpus we're coming around the front and then as you go around the front we're going to tear it up we're going to do Jasmine and we're going to do two levels of it and then you'll have the pter carpass so we actually think that'll be a nice elegant approach to the house um we did take into consideration from our previous project we have put in a cluster of Palms in here some more here again blocking some visibility there but in reality the vegetation goes back almost like 50 ft where this is totally loaded with vegetation so seeing this house we don't see that going to be an issue simply for the fact too that this is actually set back even further than the original approved project next please these are just your elevations that you'd be seeing which our landscape Drew up you give an idea of how we are buffering things next please uh this one obviously on the west is facing the water and then of course this is our self elevation again screening where we can both the North and the South Side also the abing properties have heavy heavy vegetation so the reality of seeing anything from our neighbors I I don't foresee that even being possible uh next please so here's your Basin um you will The Cove we've got two approaches that we're doing we got number one up here and then we got number two that we're going to show you so the next slide uh this is actually coming into the Cove uh it's interesting about a year and a half ago that that was all under construction okay so it is done now the next one so you know although we have one Flemish Gable this one has a lot more that's actually more in keeping what we're doing the classic Bermuda Style with the that we're proposing next please so here you have our proposed building and you have the buting neighbors uh we'll go over how the setbacks are working for the neighbors to preserve so you you put that into the aerial yeah that's it okay yeah okay next please so again this is actually the home as it sits uh here are our buding neighbors uh they I believe they've got like a gazebo out there which is 25 fet off of the projected property line 35 feet again the setback should be set for preserving everybody's views uh this house will be set set back at 522 which before like I said was at 40 uh I think banion as far as far 520 was definitely the one that was a budding it would be visually impact potentially if we were moving out we've actually shifted everything back due to that their house has set back 57 feet uh but we are still preserving their view out to the cove and then the house to the west of them has all open views next please just while we're on that Gary and we're talking about neighbors has there been any feedback from Neighbors on there has not but there are some here in the thank you um again we're just showing how the various undulation occurs on this elevation from actually a polo Drive which we feel really does start breaking up the elevation so you're not seeing this wall of a flat massing next please again this is the driveway coming in from the South Side next again taking another look at all these setbacks how this will be modeled and how it will actually be set back off the property lines uh you're seeing a little bit of the side loaded garages down below next please uh this is the driveway of the north side so as you're approaching into the property next please again this is not a realistic elevation that you would see from the street because we have so much vegetation and the fig trees right here so we taken that away just so you can see all the proportion and everything that what we are proposing next please uh this is is the garage side and as you can see as the as the building goes south it actually does move back and back further so uh next please this is the rear of the house this is actually on the North side that would be their family room with the Tris coming out next please this being on the South Side looking back at the house again when we look at this the previous design came out to here so it was a big difference on how much closer came to the water uh next please and I believe that concludes our presentation uh should you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them my client is here um great uh so four or five uh years uh before this you had like aerial shots but they were all the front of you know from the north looking from sorry from the south looking Northwest or the North looking do you have any of those of the back so as if you were coming in to The Cove yeah let's go to The Cove shots those Aerials maybe you showed them and I just yeah I mean it might be that you were expecting more and we can get more because we do we did the entire Cove so this is what we had but then go back were coming in okay yeah yeah but I was speaking of the shots if you go to the North or oh further back okay go back I don't no go go forward yeah do you have shots like that but the other side in from the back from the water okay so we can try do so every time we go out there with the the drones and you got to be careful because boats and a lot of times these guys can't see where it is because they're only looking at it down here and like but no we can definitely get shots for you to see back coming in I I was just curious because I think that that shot is is a good shot to give you perspective perspective of the whole lot right from that angle and it would be nice to see that from the back I got you okay no I I think the owner at 520 I would think would be pleased in a sense I don't know if they're here because that's 10 more feet view might uh I few questions yeah okay well I know what let's finish on we'll do it in reverse on the board and then please we welcome comments from Lors well you've got a new new beautiful new seaw wall built that's quite a bit higher than the level of the land you're going to bring all the property up to that level Fe it towards the front or yeah so what will happen is um so understand the your codes on the following we are in a flood zone of six feet building code requires seven feet we are proposing eight feet that is pending and so just doing the responsible I think decision to tell an you should go to the 8 feet when all of a sudden next year if it is at 8 feet his house is all of a sudden non-conforming um so I think you got to look at it that way but yes Tom as far as the land goes I believe the seaw wall we're at about five feet we will be oh higher even than the seaw wall the home yeah yeah the home is going to be higher but we are stepping it up and pushing it back and then you're right it will we're literally taking the Civil is going all the way around and coming back down to the road because the road's at a lower elevation so how what about the side set backs in with that r bed property line we had that next to Mr Lion's house how you going to handle that so we're going to have a twoot retaining wall okay and the way we've designed it landscape wise we're actually putting Landscaping that are going to be like Vines and everything growing up hiding all of that we came off about a foot and a half for that and we actually have decorative aluminum railings we're not doing chain link along there so again it's it's another level up where normally if you do decorative aluminum you can actually push it to the proping line but we're actually screening it um and it will be but it will be 2 feet you will see a twoot stuckle base height there not to correct my architect but I think U the top of the sea wall six feet isn't it closer to six isn't it 5'9 yeah you're right I was looking at you're right with the ngvd no you're absolutely right sixl that to me in terms of the street how many feet higher so you go to the center of the property right today if you're in the center of the property uh that seaw wall is from the grade to the top I don't know how many feet four feet three or four feet so the so the so the first floor elevation is going to be four feet higher so what I want to do is let me just open this up you understand my question yeah as far as you want to know how high is it going to be from the existing bra from the street level PO is that what Gary you did the uh slide that took the fig tree out and that showed yeah but it figure might need real numbers okay I just wanted to see if we have the uh elevations in here for you so the elevation of the road right now is just shy of three feet okay so it is at three feet we are proposing the house to be 5 feet higher at Finish floor okay um sorry I'm sorry I maybe surprise me five feet higher than the road the first four elevation yeah the road is at 3 feet it's actually shy of 3 feet I mean that's this is a a challenge today and going forward for this isn't so I'm sorry for the inflection but like so Gary on your last approval what was the so we but you know that's a year and a half ago no I understand no no I didn't mean that's why and then um the the peak of the second floor roof uh is probably at the max right under we're we're shy but we're at 294 you could go to 30 okay it's not much and the last approval was 298 yeah so the transition is what people are beginning to deal with that five feet over so many linear feet is is you know correct what we're all having to deal with and what we're doing is by pushing this house back further than the 30 feet that is your building setback it's helping us relieve that so that we can actually taper it up for you so it's not going to be as drastic as what it could be would you repeat what you said would be on top of that five feet oh oh oh oh I'm sorry on the side it's a decorative aluminum fence and then it's going to be screen by Landscaping but it is so you got two feet that the wall and then we're going to have let's say 5 high which is maximum 6t that we' be doing take it's going to be 2T we have to have protection from kids climbing over so that's the maximum that we would be is the six yeah so yeah so is that what you're using for your pool barrier yes okay so that has to be at least four feet right but you putting that on top of the two foot stuck over yes okay yeah and the house to the South is a new story house one story one story I believe the second one from it is two no it's it's a one story oh the one to the South and and to the north yes yes okay and and how much how much is this going to be above those two roof lines I would be making up a number because I have no idea what they are I I have no clue um I don't know what their finished floor Heights are I I really can't guess the finished floor of the garage though that's going to be obviously lower right I think show so we have and stuff like that so so it is going to be further gradual because the garage is GNA be I think the plan shows for two feet lower maybe than the house yeah you can see that okay any more questions for the board before I open it to the public um yes um unfortunately I sometimes I have a good memory and I looked at this property three different times um and just a little history um it was a one-story house and understand things change um so I'm fine with a two-story um challenges of course with femur and raising everything and something that we the town are GNA have to figure out going forward um if if there's any way you can mitigate it but um that property was very Lush I mean you could barely see the house maybe it was overgrown and they literally clearcut it um and there was many Royal Palms they took off a bunch and now we're taking out some more uh and I was looking at the property and and I would urge that we say maybe two of them maybe three it's my perspective that it wouldn't interfere with your basic plans um you know why am I preoccupied with that it's maybe going back to the previous application uh people move in and out of houses um but we want this town to continue with some of its history not just buildings but landscape and these trees are 40 50 feet high these Royal Palms and I appreciate you putting in some we are on the front all Royals but they're much smaller and I won't be around to see them 40 50 feet I'll leave it at that um so I I just think that um trying to reach some balance I think you're taking out another by the way I mean I think they probably took out three or four already uh the foral owner I think we're taking out another you tell me how many how many more Royal Pals will be take that out I think it's probably five or six it's and you know there's so uh let me just cut to the chase U I'm not suggesting you keep all of them but know there's one in the uh South um southwest corner it's a nice it's a good the tree is in good shape it gives a nice view uh from the co from the other homes and then there's two um on the um north south East Elevation so northeast southeast uh I think there's one in the north there's two sort of clustered in Northeast uh Northeast yes one looks like a decent tree that I mean I would wouldn't even know it wasn't on I would have thought it was on the property North the same thing in the South so if you would consider I'm not making a requirement but I just think that we keep losing that canopy everybody keeps taking down these Royal Palms and you know I you can't have everything from our end but we can't give everything to the other end either so gotcha okay thank you okay and last comment uh there's an elevation where and maybe this this is a minor observation but there was uh a couple of Windows that didn't have um shutters um uh it would be on the west elevation um let's load up the West on sort of on on the I guess it would be more towards the north side it's adjacent to Two Doors the two small Windows yeah yeah I don't know if you're gonna get this in the you see yeah I mean you know I don't know what just it looks like everything every window has shutters and all a sudden those two don't shuts are we talking if you look at yeah these are doors keep going left down those so what happened was there um it's actually we tried doing shutters we just didn't have enough room we wanted to get more glass we wanted one of the problems that you run into when you have doors on the exterior you want proper coverage because the rain will cause leaks so we have a shed roof there it was just with the brackets if we could fit shutters we would but it was it was definitely something I kind assume that than I'm done thanks Paul any other comments from the board Mr chairman yes I have a question Gary uh obviously I know I know that you have uh already determined your uh requirements for on-site detention uh but they're not indicated anywhere on here I if you look at sheet lp1 no well I mean I'm I'm get I'm I'm assuming that that's going to be in on the Civil you guys get the Civil no no do we don't ask for that oh okay okay so I I just okay so I just want to Ure that because on LP one you have all these open lawn areas right and I'm assuming those are the areas where you're going to have some some yeah you clearly have to retain everything on yeah okay so that's on your c yeah okay are we hooked into the sewer line or onsite okay not it's not septic okay all right okay in that case I'd like to open comments to the public please and neighbors I'm Mary Walt my mother Ellen Walton owns the property at 520 B which is probably the most impacted could we get theal can get the picture that shows the aerial from that's just what we're going to ask for um the other one that shows the view sheds yep from the from the yeah that's the one um first of all I really encourage you guys to go look at the property I don't know if you all have but what's now happening in the seaw walls is to me overwhelming and that's in the first clue to us the change that's going to happen to those of us who live in small houses in Gall street because the seaw wall is over baring I was stunned and had no first of all the town never told us anything about it so that was the first shock was the seaw wall and so now I can't even Envision the the house now once that's filled in another five feet what that house is going to feel like I totally appreciate the setbacks all of the thinking of that but the magnitude of just that level of the of the Earth being lifted is going to change the whole feeling so that that's what I'm anticipating I can't really Envision it but another five feet of a house on top of that so just drive by and look at that and see what that seaw wall does and the whole feeling in comparison at looking at my mother's right here and and and and skips you know it's all sort of manageable size mother planted a um almost half of it so our view is no longer this our view is right here only in trying to protect a whole new place because you're absolutely right Paul what was originally there was extraordinary it was this wonderful sort of you know in discreet house behind this beautiful I remember the orange tree I can't think um that it was there so I'm just anticipating I don't I don't know what this right here is and this is their pool so their life will be all out here so I just I don't know what to say you know I mean I don't know how this you know like I said ourv shed is only this now it's no longer this because Mom planted AA Edge to protect from knowing what was going to come and I don't know if you're planning on putting a boat there if there's going to be a dock out there if that comes on there that's a whole new a whole another piece that we've not had that that wasn't there was a there's no dock there now because they made the uh the seaw wall so I don't know if there there then that even puts something out even further into my mother's yeah house and View and all that so that's just and I really appreciate that the planning here I mean the planting here but that's still life is how what is this here Gary that grass right there what's that how how wide is that from the pool to the actual and and then again remember how high it is it's it's it's over notel just saying I understand like only two feet is this but when you look at it in reality it's it's a whole different thing Mary I think one two of the things that spring to mind is one of the um pictures the picture that you asked for Bob looking from that direct would give you some feedback on that yeah and the other one is on the plan we have a wooden dock uh it's not shown on that and there's any application been made any that me that that sticks out this is now obvious would that that would be done by a separate but would that come to the board sorry for hang would that come to the board the wooden dock no it'd just be on you but to give you answer about the dock totally fig that I'm 15 is to your question grass are front sign so that's the length of this room basically or not quite not quite not quite Mary how is your seaw wall been raised or how you a footer foot below or two feet below about four feet below is that big of a change oh yeah absolutely just go go to the go to the property and go onto their seaw wall you'll see mother's is maybe three I don't know I does the water rise up to your mothers is it in the High Tides it does within it is yeah it's one of the challenges we're facing with with you know Linda Stokes house you might recall used to pour over yeah literally yeah and flood that intersection of Polo and B so you know we could I mean we'd have to do the seaw wall but then everything the entire all of mothers I mean everything would have to be lifted and pulled out and done and all of that because we're you know we're the old school it's all it's all lower so I'm just I'm not saying this needs to be torn up and ripped apart and not done I just want it to be mindful and thinking about these changes that are happening to the more modest houses of G Street that you know now are going to be totally affected by all this new construction that's happening and like I said our VI shed now is a third of what it was because of what's happening okay great you had a point uh yes I'd just like to address the elevation a little I think somebody made reference to it these are all uh new FEMA map ele elevation requirements and it's going to have a major impact on Gulfstream not just this lot but all of those lots on polo the you know as they transition over time uh it's already started happening down on on on Old School uh some new houses that were were had had to have higher elevations and uh so um so that's going to be happening from now from now on because of the new FEMA map uh finished floor elevation requirements uh so that's a challenge to go stream and other communities all along the waterways here so totally I mean that's what happened I called the town and ab app yeah um anyway like I said I think it's going to be um it's going to feel a lot bigger and and higher than these drawings show I think the reality just because if you see the reality now what this will be will be a lot you know for us a much bigger project in in its feeling then um thank you Mary any other comments from Bill I told you it's been kept warm for you thank you uh I came for two reasons can you state your name for the record please uh William Borman um came for two two thoughts one was to go through all the things that you've gone through so well about the effect non effect on Walton and where they are and how that compared to the earlier plane and uh is the swimming pool and so forth all in about the same spot as it was in the other plan further back fur it's part of that setback increase you increase yeah then the original and that's part of it as well good my other uh comment was if you recall last year year and a half ago we worked together uh with the commission and I believe the commission adopted what I'll call the C similarity bylaw the one that was patterned after I think a Palm Beach bylaw and my question is did you apply that in preparing the these plans or looking at these plans yeah uh I can say that that's not something I paid particular attention to given the fact that a this similar home had been approved before so I I did not look at the elevations of the neighboring homes well is that before what was the timing of that was that before or after the passage of the bylaw I'm I'm unsure so I would encourage you that's such a Monumental thing that that the commission did I would encourage you to make a protocol for going through that analysis and even considering coming to this meeting and however you have done it abide by that bylaw okay you and Trey that's within 500 feet right that's correct so it's typically um you know both neighboring properties maybe two on either side depending on how long how wide the lots are so to the point uh I think Mr bman is maybe referencing the clockhouse is it too similar is that not similar enough the the house across street from you the clock house no no no no I'm referring to ear plan for this at the time this earlier plan was being considered the commission as I recall was asked in some respects by people's familiarity with the Palm Beach situation I guess that we adopt some way to deal with this massing and similar ity issue and you all recommended that bylaw which I think at that time I was speaking a bit for the commission the uh civic association was very excited that you had that the commission had adopted that bylaw I believe it was taken into consideration massing similarity Within two on story houses beside this with a a proposed new house that is going to start 5 feet higher and also be a twostory house and how that's going to impact that the neighborhood is you're talking about and when someone comes in with a plan as has happened today yeah hopefully the staff has got a protocol of running of implementing that bylaw I mean we'd have to go back and look at the minutes and exactly when that was approved and when this went through uh uh so this project was approved in 23 the ordinance was approved in March of 22 so the previous home that was approved was approved with the similar dissimilar good that answers the question that's a very good point thank you for bringing it up thanks TR for the clarification that was such a wonderful thing that was done let's don't let it creep away right thanks that's for are there any more comments from the committee one things that I think has to be pointed out that all of the houses on the Cove are presently too low y uh and right and so if someone is going to be building a new house such as this they're going to have to raise the footage by three to five feet and so you know any any of the existing one-story houses or twostory houses when and if they turn over are also going to have to be raised so to to tell to tell a prospective home buyer or home builder that they shouldn't build that house because it's going to be too high is like saying well we want to keep the the Old Guard okay but it's but it's going to have to happen at some point in time so with you know and I don't and I don't mean to to infer that it shouldn't be done Mary that you know that but at some point in time all of those houses on all of the CES are going to be raised I mean app yeah so and I realize you don't want to you and and Ellen don't want to have it done now and I I I fully understand that and that's why I was asking about the ultimate height of the new twostory house once you raise the the land level by five feet is it going to make is it going to make the two houses on either side and your mother's house look very diminutive and it probably will yes and a really good example although this is an example of a new Under the new FEMA requirements a one-story house being built next to an an older one-story house is Mr Lion's house is still going to be that's one of the best examples if you're driving around trying to look at the impacts just you know I think the outcome was wonderful yeah because it was a one story so I don't see it but you know obviously not all houses could be one store right uh remind me uh it seems to me that we've had discussions in the commission about taking a hard look and we've been talking about this for some time and Scott Morgan said to me that we would be working we the architecture review planning board looking at a lot of these different issues that are evolving so we can plan going forward yes sir that's that's correct so although it's not on the agenda we were going to uh from the staff comments address massing and what the commission has uh indicated that they want the arpb to do and then sort of start off um at the end of this meeting with um some of that conversation and then uh at the next meeting we'll have you know staff will create a memo of sort of what we've done over the the past few years some things that have um been discussed and then what was discussed to the commission as far as assigning the arpb the task of addressing massing um so I I I wanted to let everyone kind of you know talk a little bit about that as it relates to this project before saying this is part of a larger discussion that we will absolutely have in the months to come but then also at the conclusion of this this hearing before uh we adjourn okay just to be clear I'm not proposing we wait for that to happen to address this property we have an application we have an application in front of us and also we've gone through our due process of seeing the application obviously the feedback um we are facing this challenge of raising levels flooding and I think Curtis your point is at some point every one of these properties is going to go to that new level yeah and it's just may maybe you could instead of since it is higher levels smaller houses I mean there is a way to mitigate when raised all the houses being built bigger and biger is there a way to maybe say you know what you're going higher but have there are there are Mrs Walton if you're going to continue to speak I need you to go to the microphone okay you work with setbacks and you work with floor area ratio we have dramatically reduced the amount of square footage you can put on on the second floor from 8 10 years ago when I got on 10 years ago when so we can adjust it it it's a process though yeah we have tried to do that because we took it back I mean did you Gary did you say it's 30 something percent now the second floor yeah yeah yeah it was 50 it was 50 before well 50 is what what is allowed so 50 is allowed he he made it even even further we used that's something we tried to to get away from that massing you could go to subdivisions and neighbor you put the same amount on the second floor as on the first floor you see that down you know like that's where we try and avoid the Ming on the walls and things like that so we twoo don't we're aware of the of the impact of second looks like the White House you know um thank you are there any more comments from the public in that case if there are no more questions from the uh board could I uh request um a motion please I'll make make a motion uh to permit the construction of a new 7,467 square foot twostory beutter style single family dwelling with a 2.5 five car garage Spar covered porch trisk Zebo and swimming pool can I have a second please second Mr Lions yes Mr roach yes Mr Smith yes Vice chairman dockerty yes chairman Murphy yes thank you for the application and thank you for your comments we now move on to the items by staff which was someone signal thank you Mr chair so we didn't prepare anything in advance to put in your packet but we just wanted to make you aware that we are starting to have um discussions at the arpb level pursuant to the direction from the town commission about massing um um just to sort of bring I know I have two former Commissioners here but um to bring maybe the rest of the board on up to date on on what we've talked about at the commission level um Greg and I reached out to a planner that used to work for the town of Palm Beach about what they what they do a cubit content ratio was what the town of Palm Beach uses um Mark Marsh had indicated at one point that he has someone special in his office deal with that because it's just such a complicated formula uh and the planner there suggested that it was terrible and that we I'm paraphrasing but he essentially did not like it very much and said floor area ratio is much better um so we we really don't have a solution there we thought that you know with cubic content the higher you go the more cubic you know square footage you have or cube footage you have um but unfortunately that seems to be not not the right direction his final sort of piece of advice was you should really look at reducing the the F percentage um now I don't know if that we have a big appetite for that because there is um you know that does reduce someone's property value when you can build a 7,000 square foot house versus a 9,000 foot house so I've always just cautioned um you know and I've thought with Mr Borman a little bit on that whether or not you know preserving the [Laughter] preserving the the town and its unique character increases property values even though everyone has to to to build a smaller house uh we also thought about how massing impacts the core differently uh at least on staff discussions rather than the north south the ocean West the beachfront district and place oset beachfront District you know there's not the same massing issues that we have because they're very long uh narrow Lots typically or very wide and the setbacks are going to sort of uh handle that uh same thing with Ocean West as Mr doy knows you know you have a large pieces of property in the ocean West District so a little bit less of an issue um and the core is where we're really seeing a lot of the Redevelopment with increased finish floor um elevations and then everyone taking the the maximum uh floor area ratio and uh and the maximum Eve Heights you know so we do have some designs like what we just saw which I you know even though we have um the the owner here um I think that that is a good design that's respectful of the massing issue floor area ra um um sorry finished floor elevation is always going to be an issue that's really that's really the problem so uh we talked about adjusting setbacks increasing that something that would maybe encourage single stories uh but that also it's the law of UN and the consequences if if that just take 3,400 for example we have you know 30 to 50 foot setbacks on the side so you really have you have like a you know your your wedding cake but then you have this nice view on the side that allows for a lot of green open space if you make that a single story those setbacks go a lot wider and then all of a sudden even though it's not high you you have a lot more of a building wall um so it's hard to figure out what we you know from a staff level and talking with the commission what we sort of suggested because we always end up with let's let's look at this maybe this is a good idea but then you know there's um like I said the law of unintended consequences is that what where we want to steer everyone you know um we do commonly see the wedding cake designs because we have a requirement in the code that you set back the second floor from the side elevation so by Nature you're going to have a smaller 50% or less on top and it has to be set back so all the homes now are that wedding cake twostory uh design whereas you know maybe there was some more flexibility uh in the past so again is it beneficial to the town yes but the consequence of that is a lot of similar type two-story houses when you have that that requirement so from town staffs um sort of dire directive sort of to ourselves and and certainly we want to get from the board is we're going to like I said summarize to you what we've done what we've talked about and what the commission wants you to do um there's even been talk about you know perhaps uh at least internally you know an ad hoc committee that would be assigned a task to sort of help um look into this issue further just to get some some new people uh involved uh I I think that we certainly have the tools uh behind the de here to to do that um but it's it's how you know the board wants to uh to make that decision um there were was talk about consultants if we could try to you know get get get someone else on board that may want to look at this issue um you know so that that's kind of where we are on the massing no solution but we do have sort of marching orders from the commission to you know take a a good look at this and propose some sort of uh recommendation for um for for resolving that again whether it's in the core or or um or townwide will that be the next meeting so what we'll do is we'll have a a memorandum just sort of outlining everything um and I I really we we will probably put it on as an agenda item at the conclusion of the quas judicial hearings for the next few months so we continue to work on it and uh until such time as it's it's either you know sent out the consultant and then at that point it'll just be the Consultants working we had meetings just sort of an update or um you know if it's an ad hoc committee or something like that it'll be maybe that the chair of that committee would then you know provide a report to the arpb something like that it's just it's really uh it's whatever the board wants so again that's going to be something that we're going to communicate uh to you and then we can sort of make a decision and I I certainly would open it up for a discussion my two SS we need to have a consultant or professional help us here at the end if we don't it's a bunch of non-architects trying to guess that F and so I mean the commission the commission has agreed to hire an architect we've talked about that okay I didn't know I mean you need you know you need an opinion outside of this myopic world yeah and where they have some experience in other towns uh Town manager and Trey found a really great guy from Palm Beach but it turned out that he didn't have the free time so we just have to find somebody else a couple other quick comments if that's okay um I don't think anything uh should be taken off the table most specifically um Trey and I don't necessarily agree on this point uh the premise that you reduce square footage reduce value I can make the a contrary argument to that um so I I don't want that not to be considered um and with some input from some third parties that might have some wisdom that we don't have I think we could come up with some better plans but at the end of the day um I mean just think about the streetcape if you walked down Polo drive and you were building a beautiful home the house across the street was similar it kept going it's going to be very different um I walk at all the time it's Lush it's got a nice canopy uh you don't get the sense of hard scape all over like buildings and um I mean you can look across from uh across street uh is Mrs broy and they built a second story house and now you know as I look at Mrs bry's house you see this house over on on Gulfstream we're g to have to man AG that because otherwise it's just going to be I'm a little bit like a little city that's my view um yeah I think Paul your point is if we go into this discussion we we get a blank piece of paper nothing is off the table right I mean it's it's an inflection point I mean there's no question five feet higher I mean that is a big change well this is a beautiful example today I mean it's 150 ft wide most of the lots are 100 fet wide so I think it couldn't be anything better than what we saw today and not I'm not just saying that CU year so either the setbacks are wide you know there's 30 or 40 feet on each side what we're really going to be dealing with is the 100 foot lots and that's a whole lot different that's what caused the big fear on old school was it yes Dr Lewis's home we're gonna have that come up and that's that's why I'm really wanted new and most of those lots on polo south of um Palm White to North from palmway to Old School are all smaller yeah one story houses and most of them are on 100 foot Lots I don't know if there's any 150 foot Lots in one story house right y okay well let's get somebody I look forward to slate can I say can I as an alternate first of all I'd like to say um thank you for uh having me on your commission so um and again for those of you I haven't met everybody I'm Brian cter and um just a couple points having been through some of these processes before in terms of looking at plans and trying to figure it all out totally agree need to have like a professional not that the staff isn't professional but having an architect a real planner frankly more so than an architect involved in this and I would encourage Paul you made some good comments about you know landscaping and things like that and how important that is to the character of the neighborhood um another thing I would suggest that a a planner once want is retained a couple things they could do is I've always found that making kind of a community uh charet process part of the process is really important because I know you're always looking for Community input but literally we're you know you have a planner with plans rolled out and all the colored pencils and all that other stuff and doing that in real time with members of the community I think is very a very helpful process because everyone can see they can all start dealing with the challenges because there aren't I don't really think there are a lot of simple answers to a lot of the things that you know we're trying to do here and there will be this probably fairly long period of time when there is going to be this transition period in terms of dealing with the elevation right it's it's generational it's not the next 10 or 20 years we're going to be dealing with that way after right we're all gonna be gone you know and everyone's GNA be you know not to you know but everything from like what do we do with the roads I mean you know the infrastructure has to be raised probably at some point in the future not to kind of scare everybody but you know things like that are probably going to have to happen but I think having a planner involved to really kind of help the whole Community think through as including us but but the community the broader Community I think will give everybody more comfort in terms of the outcome and the direction we're going I think that because when it becomes sticker shock or poster shock oh my god I've just got through this through the mail right you know within the 500 foot you know I didn't know about this I think the awareness part is very important to set expectations right this is is this is something that's being forced on us as well it isn't just us right right we're not just doing this federal government in our lives we're here to help kind of thing but the other one other thing and again won't get to a lot of details but the whole idea also of um providing sort of bonusing for doing certain things could be another way to look at it right so back to your Landscaping comment if someone is doing kind of maybe above and beyond what's really required that that maybe afford you some additional rights that uh things like that I I think are things that are all really good to talk about yeah okay thanks Bill I need you to go to the microphone please yeah we're still in we still we're still in we're still in session just for your information I there's a precedent for what you're talking about I chaired a committee and probably 2001 that era to review the entire zoning law and we had a landscape architect and a architect that were part of that committee so y okay one quick last comment for me promise a sense of urgency um the reality is it is generational and there's I I can predict that the next five years there'll be at least five not seven houses that will turn simply because of age and they're one story and so and it could happen tomorrow I mean and so sooner we get on it and I'm not looking back but we need to move forward we've been y we've talked about it we just haven't gotten there yet y okay thanks Paul if there's no other items from are there any other items from board members no in that case the public both of them any other points and with that I'd like to adjourn the meeting and thank everybody for their input today yeah