good morning everyone I'd like to call to order this morning's meeting of the Architectural Review and planning board of June 27th 2024 and with that Renee please will you call the role Mr Smith here Mr cter here miss orwine here chairman Murphy here let it also be known present this morning is Edward nazaro our assistant Town attorney Town manager Greg Dunham myself and absent with notice are Bob dockerty Paul lions and Curtis Smith and Terry power Curtis Ro thank you and before we go any further I'd like to formally welcome ha thank you to our board thank you and um she assures me she's read every part of the code get up no welcome uh we go on to the minutes of our meeting of March 28th and if you've had a chance to read it unless there are any additions amendments Etc could I have a recommendation to approve them please I move they approved is presented second Mr Smith yes M orwine yes Mr cter yes chairman Murphy yes uh are there any additions withdrawals deferrals or change of order on agenda items this morning no sir okay uh meetings coming forward we have a meeting on July the 25th um I know I won't be in town um I won't either okay no right and after the summer break for the want of a better word it says here we do have a meeting in August which is slightly surprising on the agenda I think that's a taper yeah say okay my say's no August meeting and then then a down okay so it's okay it's just to keep us on our toes it is to keep you on your toes isn't it that's fine the next meeting after the August break will be on September the 26th and so we move on to the public hearing part of our meeting this morning um in terms of Declaration of expart communication um I do have a declaration that I've met with Dan this morning not this morning over a period of time uh he showed me parts of his application are there any other experte communication no I have okay Renee please will you administer the Oaths to anybody who wishes to speak this morning ra right tell the truth the whole truth trth to help thank you and so we move on to the first application this morning Dustin would you like to up and present good morning morning Dustin Mel with environment Design Group um I'm here to represent 555 Pelican Lane thank you for the opportunity this morning um unfortunately since there's no PowerPoint uh if I can just ask the uh the members to look at the sheets I I'll reference the sheet number sheet L 1.0 which is the first sheet uh reflects our tree disposition plan um the only vegetation that we're proposing to remove are some ornamental Palms of no significance and there is a small clusia tree along the west sea wall that is not in great shape but other than that all the vegetation that you see on site you've been by there is proposed to remain with a few relocates will be strategic relative to our new design uh moving on to sheet L2 you can see that the planting plan that we're proposing is going to be as significant approve justtin can you bear with us a moment because your order is different to we're in the reverse order but that's okay that's okay sorry you're on L too no just need a bit of time too I apologize they were not put together when they came and our new recep a first world problem we can sorry we can choose your B zero right now this morning no PowerPoint of order you're okay boy thank you there's a third I'm sorry but that's it yeah I know I know okay I think we we're on track so if you can just reference the sheets that you're talking to again that would yeah the tree disposition plan uh that you'll see the title on the bottom right yep great okay regardless of the sheet number there so again just reflecting the minimal impact environmentally to what we're proposing ornamental Palms only to be removed there's one small clue for the treat not in great shape there are a few things we're relocating um but uh the site is pretty much open if you've been there uh lawn and we're preserving the vegetation to remain with just some minor improvements when you look at our planting plan um you'll see that we're proposing um you know what we think is a very nice tasteful landscape design um really keeping the water views open so it's really relative to the central entry creating more of a formal um pedestrian transition from the driveway which I'll get back to in a moment to The Pedestrian Courtyard entry it's going to be very Lush very tropical uh we sprinkled some additional coconuts along the west uh super hot over there with the Western Sun so just to give some shade on the Terrace out there and then really keeping the lawn space in the South open as is it's so pretty in Old Florida right now so um and the buffers will remain um as previously mentioned when you look at the site data sheet which compares the existing Hardscape and the proposed you can see that it's really just minimal Hardscape additions to the site uh we still have almost 65% of open space which would include lawn and planting so um it's certainly not over Hardscape um when you look at our site plan and maybe we can just jump to the colored one which might be the more depictive one 3.1 3.1 no is it 3 3.1 right this one uh we don't have no we don't have that one we do not I think that's the one that you sent by email so those were not circulated now did you bring it up on the screen today or no I cannot oh you you can't could you pass that round yeah yeah please so um our site plan the biggest site plan change really is the front four Court entry u right now um the asphalt road and Pelin Lane literally dies into our property so one of the problems that our client has is that you know people come and don't realize the Pelon Lane is a dead end and they see the asphalt coming to our property so they assume that's a turnaround and so it's really been a problem so we're working through trying to how to mitigate that for our client but you know the easiest thing we can do the first thing we can start with is to change material yeah so we really want to kind of pinch the Landscaping a little bit change the material and it's going to be eclipso Paving which is it looks like a coral snow shell in it and then we're going to have a loose chattah huchi driveway with a substrate so it doesn't move as you drive on it so it really want to differentiate public versus private so we think with that elevated material hopefully they'll help our clients not have people constantly turning around in the driveway and then as you move forward to the little four cord it's going to be beautiful coral Stone it's a circle with a specimen tree in the middle which lit up at night it's going to be gorgeous driving down Pelican Lane with all the tropical landscape around it and then the organic Coral just spills out into the grass and and in addition to the back is you see the coral up against the um existing dock back there that's all going to be Coral right now it's just poor Concrete in bad shape so we're going to take all those materials it's all organic materials loose Stone shell Coral lawn and lush tropical planting so um again you know I think it's a um a minor application but I think it's a significant Improvement for the for the house as is um because right now between the asphalt driveway in the house and just a Fus hedge and there's really nothing um delineating that this is a private uh lovely little personal state so I think this this upgrade will you know one look aesthetically beautiful but also to help people respect the property a little bit more thank you how are you going to get when you're coming down pelan how are you going to stop people there's no place to turn around and the sels are next to you they're not going to love this too much either what do you guys do now no I mean now people do both one they either come in and turn or they'll do to the other yeah uh our neighbor to the east um it is a difficult situation um we're actually working through um some thoughts of doing some additional things which would be a separate application because it's a little more complicated and it might even require working with the town and maybe potential Varian I mean there there things we're discussing we just haven't landed there yet but it's a good question because I think it's a problem for us and our neighbor to the east as well have the neighbors commented on these on on you know this solution that you're trying to we hear from the neighbors no we have not no neighbors no neighbors okay could you describe a little better for me there's there's circular stones of different sizes just before you go onto the dock and also in your new Courtyard in the front what's that surface going to be you know those are going to be Coral Stones a regular flag a regular Coral okay with with grouted joints on concrete are they going to be not on they're not not you know they'll probably be mudet on compacted Shell Rock but they won't be sandet it depends actually the size that we get if we get like if we're fortunate to get some three or four foot pieces we might concrete them but if they're smaller we'll we'll definitely mud on concrete so they don't settle I noticed on the end here too there's like an easement with FPL um that's that you're building into I I assume that someone has thought all that through yes yes there there's a bunch of equipment in there and so I mean um before we modify the driveway we'll have to get a release from fpnl to put the driveway inside that corner and that's one of the issues too like you know in a perfect world we'd have a gate but that would Varian as easement there it's super complicated yeah so um so we're working through all this thank you one one of my comments actually was the drawing that you sent around I said it' be really helpful to have a drawing like that was in my notes so glad we have it I apologize in full disclosure my project manager is doing a great job and that she's in Sweden right now how dare her you know living her life so I've been trying to scramble with Renee who's always so accommodated to make sure this was in the right way and it wasn't but thank you and the potential solution for stopping the encroachment into the property that's obviously going to be a separate application do you foresee anything else um because what we're trying to do is make sure that any I'm not saying rats and nice applications but any small things come together at the same time do you foresee anything else other than the potential solution for people coming in so we can I me I mean when we come back yeah I think the only thing that we'll come back for U would be U potentially maybe a gate or something yeah no I was thinking outside that for outside that U we would also be um coming back uh to you relative to an issue we're having with the doc right because what we're trying to do is is make sure that we try and aggregate applications as much as possible so yeah staff don't go okay now we've got this and then again we've got this and we've got that no sry good question and and again to be very specific the only reason why we are coming back is because the dock and the gate require variances potentially so that's a separate path great but other than that no no design issues great it's something we're trying to do is aggregate all these small parts to make it disposal uh if I could just note for the record so there is on there a statement about existing doc wood composite overlay and there's um there's a sample material so that is that has been pulled from the application and will be a variance because the dock is not conforming and they want to rebuild it as it exists right or refurbish or you know I won't put words in the applicant's mouth but that'll be part of a a separate application that we'll probably see next month and does that obviously include the new patio patio facing west as well because that's in this application as well we've got a new motor Court a new interior Courtyard a new face a new patio facing w and that is all in this application only thing that we're removing is the the overlay on the dock right okay just when if we go to the motion okay thank you any more questions is the patio to the West an independent structure or is it going to be attached to the main building oh good question it's it's independent it's actually at a lower grade okay um so it'll be uh separate yes ma'am and in the event that they're splitting is the material designed to break apart or stay put yeah yeah it it's not going to be installed with with a frangible characteristic um as you would think of a breakaway type thing but we're actually um working with some drainage Solutions uh toh do better on the site it's not really bad but there are some things we're working with with our final grades to work that out so we're mindful of that um but it won't be like frangible you are there any other questions from the board St can you tell me yeah yes sir yes sir those were the existing sapad trees right yep um which are um definitely very historic our client tells us wonderful stories of our grandparents and they to them and it's great privacy so um we definitely had to uh be mindful that when the seaw wall right work is on so we had them root pruned right uh we had them um temporally moved and then they're going right back to be in the same exact place okay wer aren't you going to raise them to some degree yes sir yeah because correct as the seaw wall goes up the gray goes up slightly and so that's what we had to do with the trees so there was a lot of care taken in are they handling things okay yeah they are they are a little bit of stress you know they weren't happy at first but me they're bouncing back okay yeah that's good yeah but we have an arborist involved in addition to the tree so we we've got a good team on it okay thanks any more questions from more stuff in that case could I if not I'd like to make a motion to approve site plan based on the finding that the construction of a new motor Court a new interior Courtyard a new patio facing west we're not including the wood composite overlay on the dock that's excluded right correct right sorry yep meets and Landscape improvements meets the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards could I have a second please second Mr Smith yes Mrs orwine yes Mr cter yes chairman mury yes thank thank you very much have a great day and so we move on to our second application this morning Richard good morning good morning yeah be there break it down a little easier hard to okay wonderful thank you than you all right thank you good morning Rich SCH the state development I'm here to represent um Dan D shamers property at 945 in the go point first I'd like to thank all of you on the board for working with us uh over the last two years on two magnificent properties I think the energy and effort that went into it are going to prove themselves to be wonderful homes uh not only Dan but one just one Santoro which is one Street south of that we want to just appreciate your time with that we're here for today is just a landscape change that we you like to present to you and that is on the on the colored photograph first with the green survey itself the survey itself what we did is from the front of the property originally we had two gates right on the very front Corners we've actually moved them back to Midway of the house on both sides we were kind of forced to do that on the left side because of the septic tanks and irrigation that not irrigation but the septic tanks and plumbing that goes there so we move those back what we're presenting to you is we' would like to give the approval for artificial turf in the back areas where you see the green it will not be viewed from the front and it obviously will not be viewed from the rear of the property either and the second page has color photographs rendering showing the height differential from the actual water itself one is on the east west side and three is on the east side and obviously the other straightforward to the property we do have a copy actually a sample of the actual Turf as well if you like to do that so obviously you've addressed the part of the code that refers to artificial turf say that one more time sorry you've addressed points when you've made this pres yes correct application you've um gone to the artificial turf part of the code and work your way through that correct right um I have a couple of questions just to confirm it is at the end of the from a technical point of view just to confirm as it states in the staff notes this confirms as the right type of artificial grass if that's the right way to put it that's yeah okay so that is in consideration we'll take it home um had a side um and as I said in the expart communication I had met with Dan and in terms of the visual part of the um application to me this seems evident that it's obviously it can't be seen from the front but one of part of the code is it can't be seen from the rear or the in coastal right I think the fact that you've taken the time to present the visual aspect shows that yes you might get a yacht once in a while 40 ft High going down looking in that's not the normal we're dealing with everyday activities um I think this shows that just going up and down the in coastal to me it's not visible one of the things well the thing that stands out is The Hardscape component of this correct how do you you're aware of the ratios that we have on property yes in terms of right this this grass artificial grass is considered Hardscape I know you know part of the technical part which is why I went down that route the water goes through it and Etc but from a code point of view it's considered Hardscape The Hardscape exceeds the ratio at the moment on this proposal how do you see yourself working around that because obviously technically on the turf you've you've addressed that point it seems from my perspective that you've addressed the point that it can't be seen MH how do you um see this I'm going to say this situation where it exceeds The Hardscape ratio of the whole footprint by over a th000 square feet well we actually we actually reduced the size of the driveway okay uh from the original approval right we took the whole right side of the driveway off and moved it over so the driveway has shrunken quite a bit on that side right um we do have quite a bit I mean you it's tough to realize that we do have a lot of planting beds plant beds as as well MH um and I understand the code saying that this is hardcap but it actually does percolate uh yeah yeah but we we've got to address the code I mean all the way through we've gone through the code of the visual aspect we've gone through the code of the technical aspect check those box it seems to check those boxes right um from my perspective you know this does at the moment the application is th000 just over a th000 square feet over the um Hardscape ratio okay that's not with the code but you've said that you've already softened it yeah we how do you is is there an opportunity to to to soften it further uh well we've reduced the driveway as much as we can um I believe uh my son Dakota he can come up here as well but I believe the sidewalk to the left side if you notice we didn't put any sidewalk at all on the east side of the property M that is completely the turf and then it jumps right into all vegetation landscape from the front side on the side on the left side are we making that walkway solid or is that Stepping Stones that'll be solid this will be solid but it will not be it will be hardcap paper U but it will not be uh set on concrete because just so I'm clear is the thousand square feet that you're over with the does that include these modifications or okay yeah okay yes I'd also like to add from a drainage standpoint where's it it percolates actually better than regular grass because when the rain falls obviously you see the rain like we got yesterday and the day before when that falls when it falls in Grass it turns to just mush it turns into a muck where this is set on drainage rock as in designed to just let the water pass through I we've done entire Tire Homes and the drainage is unbelievable the challenge we face is we've got to reply our code sure and I know you said other places and you I'm sure other places refer to Gulf Stream and say well they do it there and somebody else turns around and says well we don't do it here right so I'm afraid that one doesn't quite B the dust oh it does here um but it's that Hardscape component and I know how much work Dan's put in to make this a beautiful property but we have to apply this code and two of the for me two of the three boxes have been checked the visibility the technical component The Hardscape um and not referencing the previous application directly but Hardscape was a component of that application it's something we we really go with to try and make sure that we don't have Hardscape everywhere in Gulf Stream it's why the code was put together like that um and this is a new area for us as you say I think this is the fourth application we've it says we've had so it's we don't get a lot of these but we have to apply the code it's just what a month and a half about a month ago we got the change in statutes and things yeah I I spend my quite a bit of time doing my due diligence yeah so this is you know this is the fourth application sure but we have to apply the code um now I'm open to when I say I'm open do you have any other suggestions because then I've got one route to go down but I don't want to preempt anything with with you I'm going to be a little bit argumentative with you Malcolm I don't the comment about I got a bunch of comments but the first is you can't see it and one I think the shop looks like it's taken it very low tide um there are higher Tides when you would have a different perspective than the one given here you can see the title lines on the side of the seaw wall and most importantly I don't think this represents anything what we were thinking about when we when we came to the town with the concept of artificial turf it was really to be planted where it was almost impossible to grow grass you know in the setbacks on the side of a residence possibly between the stones and the front patio this looks like they've decided to make all the grass in the backyard artificial and I don't see any way or why you can't make the two big chunks of it at a minimum grass it will grow there it's growing there on other homes on the water I could consider possibly some of the smaller patches where it's 4 feet by 4 feet and growing grass in it it was a pain in the neck but I think this goes completely again against what what we decided to use artificial turf war to begin with okay and secondly if we do pass this the precedent we're going to set is so large that it'll almost tell anybody building a home on the in coastal that they can put artificial grass all over the backyard because you can't see it so I'm not you can tell I'm not in favor and I'm not in favor from a from a from a Hardscape point of view which is why what would the square footage be and I'm not you know it's obviously Dan's Choice your choice Etc we have to consider what's before us taking Tom's point the side the two side large components because the parts nearest the pool you can nearly understand that you don't want to go out and walk on on sod and whatever agree you can understand around the pool area but these would these two side components get you within the Hardscape from a ra and again I'm not it would be your choice and whatever but I'm just saying for something to consider because those are two large suedes of grass whereas the the the grass sorry the artificial grass which is near to the seaw wall you could probably see from space if you're high enough um but but these two large suedes it's The Hardscape part that I'm getting for which actually complains what Tom's saying because in order to have that much you've got to go beyond the hardcap ratio right so I have I have a question I'm not I'm not talking the code the code is the code but if it percolates like if I take a P or a concrete P or a porcelain P or a concrete slab that's non pores right so that does not percolate this grass with the drainage gravel it's designed to have is better percolation than actual real sod because it doesn't puddle it doesn't create that space it percolates through the ground so how can that be condemned or put in a compartment of nonous it's the way the code was constricted so it it's actually termed landscaped open space so I think that you know consistent with our ordinance this is not really Landscaping it's a piece of plastic um you know so it is there are perious impervious calculations but our code actually says um minimum landscaped open space so that that's what it refers to because it's artificial it's it's the artificial component well when I think that when the commission drafted the ordinance they sort of acknowledge that this does not count as Landscaping MH and that's the directive that was put into the code which we as a board across the board we apply if you're looking at like Florida building code or something they would certainly count this consistent with what the drainage regulations are but just for a zoning perspective it's more about is it landscaping or is it or is it not so is it does it meet that landscaped open space so I think that's you know I I completely agree that it is much different than just a a porcelain paper sure but just for the purposes of of that specific regulation I think that it's more about is it Landscaping open space or is it or is it something different and over the years this this material and the product that the substrate below it has really you know improved greatly so a lot of municipalities are trying to move towards it and and not against it but it's here you know I mean just you know the Del Beach ordinance which we did look at when we were drafting the ordinance does not count it as Landscaping but does count it as pervious for like drainage purposes so that's very consistent with kind of the conversation that we're having right now right right yes oh try I'm trying to remember does Del count that as at 100% perious uh I I don't know so for drainage calculations it's different so they it's they use two different sort of I won't call them metrics but they essentially say that it it doesn't count toward your Landscaping but it does count for toward drainage right okay so unfortunately that's the code not unfortunately it is what it is that's the code which we have to apply to this application um my comments you can see what they are the visibility part I absolutely take what Tom said but also my big part is the hardscaping and the hardscaping to me you've got to find some more sofc that's what you need I'd like to I I looking at the plan I do think with the driveway modification that we did where that whole that little dotted line there that's the septic drain field on the right side of the property where it says grass there when we took that massive chunk out that we originally designed that for Dan to be able to have guests over Park multiple vehicles in there right and then we said well wait a second need the the septic Drainage Field to be the proper size because that's more important than parking a car is when we change that to the left side and modified the the driveway on that side kind of it's not quite enough to park a car but it's enough to kind of get out of somebody's way and put it over there I think if we entertain the idea of not going to say completely eliminating um but the the walkway on the top left side of the underneath number one there the walkway towards the back towards the dock if we entertain the idea of taking that away in conjunction with the removal on the right side I think we'd be well over the thousand square foot that would be and again we can't we can't go on well perhaps it could and but if that's a possibility to talk with Dan about abut for a future and I know Dan was we always we try and move forward things as quickly as possible but we can't go on perhaps if we do this or we do that it's essentially from my point of view it's The Hardscape I absolutely take Tom's point on I think the fact that it's low tide okay I'll take that one but from the visibility point of view that's not as major to me if if you went with just the ones around the pool because as I said around a pool you don't necessarily want grass and when you cut it going in the pool Etc and it's it's small accents right it's if if you need okay you need to get within The Hardscape ratio that's what it comes down to I can run a quick calculation on it on the plan that I have that's to scale and I can have you an answer before lunch time right but obviously that wouldn't be corre presented to the board and so don't rate and also you need a discussion with with Dan you know right you're doing a quick calculation this is a major you know it's what a thousand square feet um you're over on The Hardscape and that's going to need some I would I'm not prejudging but that's going to need some major adjustments to get within that but that's your decision as as an applicant right um I just don't think we can well you got two options we can either you can either withdraw this application or we take a vote whichever I have um go ahead that question no I was just going to say we can we can certainly defer this to the next meeting pending some adjustments I mean it's already been noticed and advertised they paid the application fee so if we just defer it we can make that decision um we do have two issues though obviously the first issue is the The Hardscape which it seem seems like we'll be able to work out with maybe um some adjustments to um to the driveway or um side Sidewalk area so that can be modified uh with you know maybe a small reduction in the actual artificial turf um but the second question of course is the visibility from from the water so before we move on to uh maybe deferring this if the applicants acceptable um for that um what is the pleasure of the board relative to the The View so you know we're on staff we're just kind of like the trial court you guys you guys are right because you're final not because you're right um so it was staff's understanding that if you're on a level parallel to the seaw wall standing at that height and you could look into the backyard then and see it then that would that would be visible from the the Waterway just like you were standing on the street in the in a sidey yard or something like that so our Council had been to screen it in in some way with Landscaping a small bed something like that um obviously that's you know that's not ideal then you have plants all the way out on the seaw wall then blocking your view block the view um so just looking for guidance from the the board as to how they feel staff should work with the applicant to get this passed at the next meeting from s well let me I have a couple comments one I um I'm a little conflicted on this honestly but as Malcolm was saying though I mean I think the code is very clear um in terms of what's allowed and what's not allowed in terms of you know how things are calculated and also from a visibility standpoint and I guess maybe this is almost the staff question it would seem to me that if we were to allow any Turf in the rear yard um we would somehow or another I don't know variance is the right word but there would be some um some Amendment if you will for this application to the enforcement of that provision of the code is that is that correct I don't even I'm wondering from a technical standpoint how we would go about even approving it if it was in violation of the ordinance right so if it's in violation of the ordinance you really couldn't approve it You' need to find that it it means the ordinance so the question is what can we do to to have it meet the ordinance so again our our position was just irrespective of the the prvious and prvious Landscape um open space calculations if you if there's a Street behind you know Street or Waterway just imagine there's a street there and you're looking into the yard you can you can see it fairly clearly um initially we if you look at the center portion where it says Turf uh a lot of that area we were fine with but the areas that were along the uh parallel to the or touching the the seaw wall we had an issue with that because there's really no way to to screen that you can easily see that but some sort of a low Landscaping bed or something that can screen it uh I think was the intent of the code originally we had an application at I want to say 3160 it's one of the 3140 3160 on polo um and they are on the corner of Polo and pal way and they have a very large hedge I mean it's you know and I think even a um like a wall so there's no way that you could see that land that artificial turf from the street even though it's it's in this it's in the backyard you can see into the backyard if you know the wall and Landscaping wasn't there so that was screened sufficiently to to meet the code so we would just be looking at a comparable um you know using that as an example of what was approved before we would want something similar here now I don't think it's reasonable to say put up a 4ot wall but what what can we do to to screen uh what what is in the uh in the backyard okay I think you're finding the code was um it's very clear that it's trying to discourage people from using this and and it was also it can be seen from the neighbors across the street from the balcon if you're on the balcony you can see it into the Y right Mr yeah I'd like to ask Mr Smith uh of course he pointed out that this was at a lower tide and you can see that would your preference be to take new pictures when it's at a high time when the tide is I don't I I it I we could would see if it makes any difference I just my biggest problem is is just that there just so much of it I think that I happen to be on the town commission I think when we passed this and this was not Our intention at all that I the whole the whole concept is not at all now I if it if it meets the code then I can't argue with it but I'm just trying to refresh it I don't know why the areas that that are on the the two sides of the property cannot be grass I haven't convinced me of that yet and the second thing let me ask you because you suggested maybe you would remove the stone walkway on the what we call the left side this what would you then put down artificial turf it would have to be a stepping stone type that would allow percolation between it would such a volume but here's my other thought as well is that even though currently today there are several properties that you clearly see artificial turf to the sea wall that exists today that aren't talked about uh we could take the back section one two three all the back sections there we could very easily put a a small like a Green Island Ficus hedge it would be there it would increase our percolation it would increase our heartscape and it would buffer anyone seeing that from many level what's the elevation between the top of the seaw wall and the uh ground level to the turf what looking so let's look at does it come down yeah I mean what is that drop the dock is pretty much flush the seaw wall cap the doc extends five feet past and is it is that at ground for the one of a better word uh base level it it essentially is from the seaw wall cap not from the p uh pull bit so from the pool deck to goes up it steps down it it steps down from the pool deck so from the the white grid section there um Dan and I have obviously had many meetings discussing this you know over the past few months and that was one decision that we elected to make to help this you know facilitate this process was well don't run it all the way up because now you're increasing the elevation on it we want the goal is to keep this minimal so there's a step down from the pool deck itself and then it it's almost level with the um over eight feet I think it goes up it goes down three inches to meet the seaw wall cap it will technically be just below the seaw wall cap um but to avoid any safety you know tripping hazards and things I'd like to see that near flush it'll be about 34 in down because the last yeah I was wonder if there was any screening opportunity there just on the physical elevations but know I think I think brought up a great point and we could add a little green Island Fus hedge which could be literally as wide as this Podium and I mean I can keep it 6 in tall 12 in tall or grow it to three or four feet I know we don't want to block The View so the taller that gets the worse it's going to get I think keeping that to like a 12 inch minimum nice little clean would be a happy buffer for everyone and that way the the artificial grass nearest to the seaw wall would be would be covered correct be covered yes sir because that's part of the other the other thing that we do have working massively in our favor here is the height of the seaw the height of the seaw wall cap I'm just about 37 in give or take a half inch from the neighbor's Dro and that's evident on the pictures and I I was actually um the one that took those photos yeah and while I was out there I looked at Dan and I laughed because I I'm looking around and I can see everybody's grass that's dying the turf that's there and turf over here and I look around I say well you're the only one that I can't see from from the little raft that I was on so I I did find that somewhat amusing so from in terms of the takeaway so going back to what Trey said there were a couple of options here in terms of deferment withdrawal um that's you'd have to decide that with that or you put it to the vote or just you know this application comes through this process which on now you put it to the vote I'm not not preempting anything of the board but it's not going to get through because of the points we said if we go back and and basically pump and recreate a little bit of a buffer on that back side increase our percolation level what would be our next hearing time meeting so Renee do you want to give him when you would need the materials for the next meeting so I mean it wouldn't need to be advertised but we need to make sure they right um the 9th of July okay so two weeks need to meet materials by then and what would be the meeting time 25th 25th I'm not preempting in terms of people but I know Tom isn't here I'm not here I'm I'm not here either I'm Katie are you here I'm here then I'm gonna have to call Paul no Terry's not here I have nobody but Paul Curtis and Katie so I'm gonna have to call Paul and Curtis to see if they're going to be in town or not both in town no no they've all told me yep Katie is turning out to be an excellent [Laughter] alternative okay that's something we have to work on yeah as a group but in terms of you know I say that's not your definitely isn't but in terms of it's scheduled for the 25th but we've got to see if we can actually get a calling for that it's very very unusual we can't we will we will need to have a July meeting it'll just need to be adjusted as as the so that that's answer there will be a July meeting um we'll just have to find out who's in but the other thing is and we may have to adjust the date that's what that's what I meant but the the other thing is and this is what we said all along and I know Dan's been in in regular contact with staff is to not just present and say well here we go again and your word we're going to punt we really try and move things forward but on the other hand really engaged with stuff to see look in the in the context of this conversation we're having now this is our proposal this is where we're going to because we don't want you to waste time but we also want to try and move it forward and I hope our comments have been as constructive to help you get to that point but we have to apply this code as it stands um my point was the visibility the one I saw the application on the code it's The Hardscape which jumps out which basically reinforces Tom point to get to that point you've got to have this much Turf and so my advice would be engage with a team with the staff as much as possible so that for if you choose to come to the July meeting then you can be you know really taken that step extra which you need so it's and I do believe Mr D shammer correct me if I'm wrong but when you first came in the artificial turf was just around the fire pit and in these little spots then it evolved into the side and the accents I mean taking your point on it is seen as an accent and round fire pit necessarily and right next to the seaw wall I can see that and I can't you know that the visibility part that's the part I really was focusing on and I I still stand by that actually because I think it's only occasionally you can look down because of the height of that extra seaw wall that you had to do because of femur um but the The Hardscape for me it's it's it basically doesn't allow this to move forward from my point of view I'm not negating any VES but I can't see how this could be approved today okay so it's really done if you I'm not stepping into your shoes but if you want to have a discussion inside outside how you want to move forward in terms of those options now um if you can let us know because we're moving forward do you want to withdraw okay yeah we would we would want the um the board to make a motion to defer to the next scheduled meeting which would be sometime in July you know we want to work together to get this through okay okay in that case we have a motion to defer until a meeting henceforth or specifically July uh I would say specific well you can just say that the next meeting to be scheduled based on availability yeah okay then I'll make a motion to defer the application until the next arpb meeting which will be in late July second second K okay yeah Renee be okay Mr Smith yes Mrs orwine yes Mr cter yes chairman Murphy yes okay I'll let yall know the date okay thank you thank you I guess KN a question for you is is there um is there a provision I mean especially in these summer months does everyone physically have to be present have you ever done anything telephonically or do you try to stay away we actually did it we are required to have a a physical Forum present so okay by by law okay and so calling in you can call in but you can't for the quum you can't vote gotta when you can't vote either well you can't vote you could during Co they did allow it but then they stopped it after Co okay because I know we did it during Co not sure why you would call in then you're engaged member of the board that's true okay so now we move on to our third application this morning good morning members of the board my name is Paul hmer I'm here representing the 1200 North ocean project we are here to provide some minor adjustments and modifications from the level three that we reviewed with the board last year um we've worked with staff across the board as uh' encountered some construction things where we the design has evolved a little bit along the way to review a few items um these are some notes that we've collected together to get your input and approval uh so that we can continue to move forward um there sort of two classes of them there's some architectural elements and then there are some color palet modifications from the architectural standpoint the biggest one is on the tackle shed which is the small building uh adjacent to the guest house kind of on the the middle of the property um as we looked at this one it became more and more apparent that it wanted to be a true more minor accessory building so the proposal is to clad it in a stone Coral veneer and use a copper roof matching some of the Highlight accents we've used in some other parts of the project and then use some Timber lentils over the the windows and a slightly more rustic shutter with board and Baton as opposed to the louvered uh character we've used elsewhere um the the staff rightly noted that the sorry faux sting excuse me faux sting is specifically prohibited but this is a true um real V I'll pass a couple samples around sorry a little these are Big samples okay both H so it's an inch and 3/4 Dominican Coral um will be honed but unfilled so where it'll be here we'll have a random pattern um that's then ungrounded and really true to that character uh the on the elevations you can see some of the other elements that we talked about with the roof and the uh shutters the second part of it is on the poolhouse we're adding a an outdoor shower enclosure on the south end adjacent to one of the nearby properties uh this would be a very light impact um boards on posts with a shower head mounted to the building itself the building is existing one that sort of non non-conforming sits within the setback uh the enclosure since it's not a a true building is not covered by that setback and we're trying to screen it with some of the property screening on the backside uh the neighbor to the South has been amendable to this adjustment and then the last one is on the main house we're taking one of the small or one of the windows on the northwest corner northeast corner of the property and converting it from a double hung to a pair of single fixed windows that would be matching the upper sash of the windows across the board responding to some interior plan changes could you tell us that is you could reference yeah could you reference the sheet you're looking at yes on a21 the front elevation on the top left corner of the page it would be the left side of the uh that elevation I'm showing yeah I'm to say I'm showing M yeah yes yeah these two windows here yeah in the b in the master bathroom yeah exactly okay what were they before previously it was one single hung um we had that whole bathroom continuing to the end we've split it into a water closet and a shower and so those two windows are then looking into those rooms and it didn't make sense to have one big window looking into either room and uh since that kind of is off to the side you know the landscape component the two of them are you know visually aligning with some of the other buildings across the the elevation so then I'll move into the color elements briefly uh the the main house remains largely the same we've refined the adjustment slightly on the accent color can I as as you're doing this can you tell us what we looking at I know you know it off your off by heart you live and breathe this sure we don't I I actually forgot to bring the time much appreciated um should we back up to any of the other ones actually another piece to look at uh if you look at a 2011 um near the end of the package yes I've got it that was where sorry I apologize that's where some of those uh out building elements are so going back again the tackle shed is along the bottom of the page so those are the four elevations of that you can see the copper roof and I should note that the footprint of the copper roof is slightly less than 300 square feet so it's still in that minor communitive area um the stone near you can see across there as opposed to stucko elsewhere what feet are you want again you're still on 2.01 correct but the okay further through the package there's another you don't want to confuse us because it won't help you yeah and we really can't choose gum un breathe at on 201 in the upper leftand corner that really should say guest shed west elevation I think instead of tackle I don't know you are correct thank you supposed to yeah that should be that is your T1 says it should say guest East Elevation instead of does the board see this elevation it's closer to the back not I'm on my two1 I apologize we have um we've split them into sets for each of the buildings so we sort of combin a variety of them so this is the uh the guest house I'm on my second to1 okay oh right here three pages from the back and I think that that should say guest East Elevation not tackle west elevation right okay I don't think I have is this there we go yeah there we go it's this one got it there we go now we're Le looking at the right thing um should I go back through the the notes again yes please thank you thank you for bearing with me um so again on the the lower four elevations there are the tackle shed which is adjacent to the upper four elevations of the guest house um we are proposing the stone veneer to be at the that small Tacko shed building um you can see the character of the shutters with the board and Baton as opposed to the Louver on the guest house elevations and then also uh the other element of this is the eve condition um previously we had and what's existing there right now is a very simple closed Eve which is a crown uh against the wall of the building similar to the main mass of the guest house uh during the level three application we provided the guest house porch with an open Eve condition where the rafters would be visible um you know little trim fascia there we were proposing to do that for the tackle shed so that it you know again you tell the story of the two being more subordinate uh secondary pieces to the the guest house and the main house which have that more refined uh Crown condition the third one is the shed overhang so you can see that in the tackle shed west elevation the middle bottom um on the front elevation of that there would be a series of four brackets with an open uh open shed roof that the material matches the roof of the tackle shed building previously we had that as a light gauge metal um very Light Element and it was not appropriate or it was less appropriate than it could be and we felt that this is a better solution MH and while we're here I think the next element is the or if the board looks at the next page 304 uh that includes dets of the eve and the shed so on the left hand side of the page there's an overall detail cutting through the eve and the shed yep you can see the character of that overhanging Eve um similar in overhang so about the 16 14 in from the face of the stone and then the light Timber of the the shed roof the pool housee enclosure that we spoke about um before that if the board backs up to um or continues on to the next sheet after that tackle detail which should be a 101 for the pool housee set yes no a11 yes an a101 yeah okay and this the element that we're talking about is on the south face the little enclosure which would be a series of four P four posts and the next page has elevation uh characteristics of this with horizontal boards connecting between them is a sort of a board and Bon uh approach so on the following page details I think C and um D clear show it the most clearly and we work with the staff on height maintaining that it's below the six foot height that a typical fence would be um and keeping the the footprint so the the enclosure does not go all the way to the ground um we would have a small you know gravel or Stone place to to stand on just so that water doesn't run off and carry throughout the whole area are there any questions on the architectural amends before we move into the colors I have a question on the uh exterior um shower is requirement I thought there was some requirement for them to have some kind of cover or something over the top of them um Terrace some not Terrace trellis of some kind or um so that was I'm trying to think the conversation that we were having I believe the issue that we ran into a lot in Bluewater Cove uh was the wall was a a certain height you know um and we mentioned that maybe if there was a trellis that that was not attached that would count as a minor accessory structure sure that was more of a setback issue I don't think there's a setback issue with this I think it's just coming off the wall and it meets the current setback requirements um and there may be a fence around it this is a different zoning District um Ocean West which allows taller walls I believe is it six six foot yes there's like an enclosure around yeah so that is just treated as a wall and is permitted because it's within the zoning district and everything it's shown architecturally but it's more of a landscape site wall element okay thank you sure so then the the second element of the application relates to the color pallets so if the the board would go to the first a201 um that's the colored elevation of the the main house front I do appreciate your you're bearing with the nomenclature okay so on these one this is largely similar to what we had presented with the level three application um the refinement here is on the shutter color so we have proposed to use a a Rookwood dark green which is this color well and I should should back up we have um we also have the trim and uh stucco colors so we got the whole J position as it relates to the okay thank you would it be helpful to lay them out on the table that would be wonderful green is the shutters right correct okay did I read it that the shutters may be a different color Elsewhere on the property or are they that dark green everywhere so that's part of the application uh request the second a201 for the two out buildings the guest house and Tackle shed um because those two uh the guest house were proposing to take to a white uh body of the mass so it would match what we have is the white for the trim of the main house um that relates more closely to what we had on the coral and allows those buildings since they're sort of together to relate to each other um those we looked at in alternate color for the shutters and that's the blue in the middle here can you just explain the top three are sure so then uh the this one is an accent for the front door so while we have the shutter color for the the main house this is a slightly darker version of it just to let the front door be a little bit different and this is a color for the back trellis on the south side of the rear elevation so this elements in here where where because that was a fairly wide the black uh lines through here there's a series of light gauge metal shade structures yeah that we had had included before that would be the black just to let the metal return to a sort of less visible okay and the middle color again the middle color is the accent for the two out buildings so that's the blue shutter color I'm not sure I can't see I have to look at the color board it's it's it's very light shutter yeah yeah that was the one concern it's going to be on that white sort of and the building is going to be correct well one's going to be coded with this right okay so the light gray for the want of a better term can you just point that out again where it relates to on our a21 so this is the trim color so all the elements that the color is white in that elevation light okay yeah we'll have to check that before you leave you have building color the trim color yep our accent color yep the door color the door and then the metal color for the rear for the rear yes and the accent okay what what color are the rails the railings would be white to match what color is the roof roof so the roof is a cedar allowed to age naturally so it'll ptin out to sort of a darker brown okay Rene can you just say what you again I didn't hear what you said you wanted to do about that one color we have color boards where the shades are allowed for shutters and that looks pretty light to me okay so we're going to have to check the board on Can you just check it real quick while we're in the meeting and I think it would be amenable if there was a sounds like a darker color may be more appropriate um to select one that may go yeah so on your back to a 2011 where we had the um the tackle shed in the guest house those are the shutters you're proposing with the the blue that's correct okay all of them on both of those buildings that's correct are there Shutters on the pool house there are they are but they would match the main house shutters the green there so if you um if the board flips to the third fourth page a 1.0 it's sort of a nature of the correlation and adjacencies for the different pieces the main house which is the the large body would have the green shutters across the pool house which is directly adjacent to an elevation that has a number of shutters would then match to that one on the west elevation of the main house there really are no shutters there's not really an accent color there so that was the impetus for both the color change on the guest house and the tackle um and then having the accent color for those be slightly different and the tackle shed and the main property you obviously see at the same time as in you could get that dist of you would actually would not the T shed is behind because of the landscape right because we approach from the the north yeah and the tackle shed sort of back behind the only view you would get would be from the rear that's what I'm saying so if you standing at the rear yes you would see that this of that's correct the same it is vegetated in Fairly closely with a number of existing large banion tree there yeah I remember the vegetation point is there any of this um element on the guest house there's not the guest house strictly The Tackle shed that's correct and the guest house since it would was originally one of the habitable buildings of the project you know it was more of a a larger accessory building and then the tackle shed being this sort of generationally smaller utilitarian piece wanted to feel a little bit different and I'm sorry what are the wall colors on the pool house sure the wall colors on the PO house would match the main house so it would be the yellow for the the wall the white trim and the green for the shutters just good to go right okay on does the board have any questions on those I think that summarizes the application that we had I think I just want to say for the record that the color is good good thank you name okay in terms of the points I've got on the application here changes to exterior color plates pets changes to the metal awning exterior finish change roof Eve change outdoor shower enclosure and the change in window 103 all three all those points have been addressed any questions I think we've and confirmed that that's within the pallet any other questions from the board Trey do you want to take this point by point or because as I said earlier we're trying to aggregate everything and every Point's been addressed can we treat this as one so the as with respect to a motion so the motion actually is uh is very simple great as per presented okay fine yes sir just we said we tried to aggregate together and it this umbrella covers an awful lot of things Rene drafted a a six page uh motion and I I using my uh Authority I decided I would just simplify that for you guys can I ask you one more question is is the copper roof on the tackle shed going to be real copper that theis to a kind of a doll okay that's correct similar to the accent color as the board approved on the pool house and the shade structure it would be an un um an unfinished copper that would patina out to really match the vegetation now the gutters copper around rest the rest of the house that the gutters would match yes um one other question we we had a late request from the owner if the board was willing to consider both the blue and the green as options would the board be amenable to the blue or the green being used holistically through all the buildings so I think our primary application is to have what we talked about with the green at the main house and the blue at the out buildings um there would the board be amenable to having the shutter color be consistent across all of them um it was a a late question that we really hadn't refined and wanted to see where the board might fall on that um could come back with it if it was appropriate so the notice actually stated changes to exterior color paletts for shutters and then it lists all of the structures so if anyone was interested in the shutter shutter colors on the entirety of the project they would have noticed the notice that that was potentially being discussed here so I would be okay with that finding no notice is sufficient to cover that topic right so you'd stick with the yellow for the lemon and it may may go to that is that a blue gray color brown okay that that instead of the dark green correct everywhere right and the idea being that uh right now we felt that it was appropriate between the two of them but there was a question you know as we looked at the blue like this is a beautiful blue and it goes really well with the yellow um so that is the idea to potentially have that for all of the shutters which way do you know which way you'd want to go I mean the owners have requested it because we're going to say yes it's it's in this umbrella sure but which way are you looking to go and would you need to come back just to staff to say this is actually what we're going with although it's in the umbrella of the approval if we go vote for it they still have to come back and say we've actually decided within this umbrella that was approved to go with this that is up to you I think typically we have allowed staff to make that decision if you give us specific parameters um I mean from my point of view I think because it's within that umbrella sure but staff wouldn't the town would need to be aware of what you're actually going with certainly although we've we've addressed it it's within you know it's acceptable we'd like to know when not we need to know yes what you're going with definitely so I think that would be part of any motion we make yeah and we would be happy to do that um if the board was amendable to it across the Vault once we finalize and reach a decision we'll provide that to the staff for review so we're okay with either the green or the blue on the main building correct y yeah I am I am MH what was there originally white yellow with white shutters you remember it was the shutters had been repainted a number of times so there were there were even some that had been replaced with less sort of inferior shutters okay it was difficult to trace what it was Tom you up for a motion on this yeah inantly I will but it says in here to permit the change exterior color for you know pallets and shutters and doors a doesen specific so we have the we have the right to approve any of them right mhm so that that was sure that's right the way that it was noticed this notice was provided to everyone within the findes of the code so they would notice that this was going to be discussed at that me at this meeting um was there any neighbor input of any kind or we have we know nope no neighbor input and as y'all know this goes out to a lot more neighbors now yeah with the 600 feet so okay the neighbors are me and Scott Mor um why didn't you rep Rene took all that time to send out I um I I met with Jacob who's the sight guy he's gone over all with so it's quite beautiful you guys should ride you can ride down my driveway and peek Over the Hedge and see it's it's magnificent um I'd like to make a motion to approve a level two architectural site plan is presented based on a finding that the proposed modifications to a previously approved level three application meet the minimum intent of the design manual and applicable review standards and that the final Tom you do you want to add to that and any final decision on the shutters will be related to yeah oh any final decision on on the colors for the shutters throughout the property um will be handled by staff and would be either colors as okay to include the two to include and only include the two colors presented and approved today great thank you Renee I need a second a second sorry Mr Smith yes Mrs or Mr couter yes chairman Murphy yes thank you thank you and so items by St we move on to I no items from staff just thank everyone for their attendance here during these warm summer months thank you items by board members I I I have one issue I don't know if it's really appropriate for this form or not but um I was approached by a neighbor about the road project or the waterline project in terms of what's going on so the water line project the street project the road project whatever we're calling so we we can um we can certainly discuss that after the meeting and answer any of your questions okay that's F and communication from the public no and so with that excuse me they do want to come back up oh you want to come back from the public okay y so we have tabled this discussion until next month but if they want to have a chance for public comment to give us some additional input on how staff is going to be directed that's anything that helps you move forward but we have tabled it for next we so go to yeah I know I want to just hello again Richard we'd like we're going to pull the picture up real quick so I can identify we had a comfort out in the other room and hopefully what we come up with will uh satisfy and as I say we we'll tell that actual decision until later but if you want to give us any information stuff okay all right so what we're trying to do let's get this picture up real quick so I can describe it it sounds like we met two of the three boxes so to speak so what we're proposing to do is across the back across you still have the the drawings y yep across the five Turf areas across the back along the seaw wall what we would do is come in about 18 to 24 in and do a green NYL Ficus or something similar to that which will buffer the view of anybody seeing it from different tide levels what we also be willing to do is completely remove the entire right hand side of the turf uh and we already removed some of it by the driveway we're forced to by the septic so by that being pushed back and removing this whole other right hand side by adding the buffer in the back we will well exceed that th square feet that'll more than likely be closer to 2500 yeah there's that many square feet in that piece on the right hand side yeah so that would go to Grass probably of some sort right or landscap or Le landscap and then across what pieces across in front of each of the little green squatches across the back can I come I don't know sure first time here I don't want to get you should see the jail here it's not pretty it's cal It's ccial So basically the Green Island F I don't want it to be confused with the F that you think and Fus loves water so you don't want it anywhere near the Green Island Fus we're using more and more it's a beautiful little you it's a little hedge you canow a box exactly you can allow it to grow higher if you'd like but most of the we use it as even ground cover things like that so I could keep it at basically whatever desired height you guys choose um comeing in 18 to 20 four on this section this section this section all on each of the section correct yes keep in mind these white sections here these three they are already Green Island Fus surrounded by beautiful landscaping and few palm trees in there as well yeah I saw it go yeah I saw it thanks yep got it okay and when it's when it's finally drawn up as you're proposing here obviously take it to staff as soon as possible because there's a big difference between you you know pen line there whatever but we're trying to get that forward as quickly as possible I can that well no it's it's their staff availability but you know that what was it July the 11th nth yeah 9th yeah so we don't like put undue pressure on but we want to make sure that the timelines are hit so you have to except so that gets rid of the um the sight lines from the water and not the thousands feet down by more than thousand 2,000 say over 2,000 well basically what's your ratio I mean it's it's that it's it's the ratio Hardscape that we correct one of it has to be with that the the only other option and we didn't really discuss this but when I do run the calculations on it I would just be questioned to the board if you would be open to keeping a little bit of section of section three um I would eliminate the whole lower half of it basically you're saying as you come toward the front of the house maybe basically I have that little box area where it step out that's the outdoor shower so if the numbers come in where I think they will the reason I'm bringing this up is if my mental calculations are correct which I want to confirm if I eliminate that section as well that should take care of the Thousand so I'm just wondering if you guys from where I think he's dra a line here sorry Lefty saying just that leave this elting confirm back here yeah that should be around 12200 but I don't want so what would be what what would be artificial you'd leave I would leave this section this artificial I just while I here presenting I'd like and the reason you go for the artificial is that the shower I'm saying it's this the shower so you'd have artificial around the shower no he I thought you said the other way around yeah it would be artificial on the actual shower side this is oh real real off so this be real in this section to basically this line oh wait I misunderstood youo I misunderstood you you take that line yeah draw a line across yes we did this would be potentially still artificial and this would be real gr okay I just wanted to see your thoughts and you were talking about removing which side of this this whole section right okay so so it' be either this whole section or possibly just this section ratio the reason I mention it is I do believe by taking that that should appease the ratio you think there's a thousand square Fe and that little L shape P okay you got to do the calcul you're looking you're looking for flexibility to uh trim trim that right Sideburn basically exactly exctly there's about 200 we would obtain just with the green Ficus across the back yeah and the one point and I know we're not discussing this I know it's because the Hedge part of the Hedge there is on D's property I mean you know the three foot R yeah we know the special situation you've got there where where the actual physical hedge cor is Edge and fence yes yeah it's it's a strange situation so the three foot is further back than it actually should needs to be yeah right got it yeah the h encroaches on Dan's property it's a shame because that property line that I'm physically looking at I'm like well can I include that in the calcul no I know where yeah I know where the hedges are yeah it's a weird scen more than a weird scenario but not so just just to be clear on on my behalf if if we were to do across the back and take either the whole right side or a portion to meet our percolation code is there anything to day that could what what's your proposal on the left hand side because the M there the left hand side would be left alone other than where the green Ficus hedge would go along the Waterway for the screen that strip yeah corre it's that strip so you'd have and as you say you what would help and we always ask is an elevation as well on any proposal I'm not you know to spend a lot of money for a design drawing but actually to see that stepping because you've got a line of sight and how much does that go back because again if someone's in a 50ft yacht you'll see it and if you're high enough you'll see it but I mean from day to day could we see some way of yeah guess what you've got a seaw wall that's high 37 inches yes sir you've got this of a foot six inches or whatever Therefore your view down you cannot physically see it corre but these are your if you like I'm to say back of a cigarette packet drawings right sure um but but really if you can firm them up properly by the date we've given you and put them past sta first sure um that would definitely be the way to move forward okay but thank you for coming back absolutely and if I can speak freely I was absolutely blown away when I was on the little raft makeshift raft taking those photos with I I I can't see your feet and so I was really what might be useful is as Tom said if perhaps one when it's high yeah yeah because we you have got that 37 in which I know the neighbors don't have because it's a new build okay and we'll take it from there sounds good thank you and thanks for the time absolutely okay with that if there's no other points from anyone this meeting is adjourned thank you everybody