coming tonight this is a meeting of the head historic preservation commission um I'm going read something for for you from in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act after 231 1975 notice of this meeting was posted on the bulon board for that purpose and notice was transmitted to the official newspapers provided by resolution adopted January 29th 2017 this commission is only an advising arm of Bo so we when we are done we will be giving recommendations to them on how we have deliberated and and cope with whatever our in uh prod so I'll let the members introduce themselves to you I'm Carol Laro [Music] Chris John we'll approve the minutes at this point is anybody any issues with the minut second we approve the minutes and um thank you it has been second through right tonight we have um few we actually have through three um three applications we're going to start with um 616 Station Avenue sorry there used to be a table there you can sit your name Mar Brown you take the microphone stand you should be able to slide it right down yeah we go that good right tell us what youd like to do uh I would like to put a sign on my storefront um I believe you have you have all the drawings so and then it matches my logo that I'll be like supporting the baseball team with and local teams around here so it'll all look alike and that's that's all I want to do now I believe my um contractor my sign got he did adjust the sizing I'm good right I don't know if he got that to you but um I believe it was uh the plan board I guess I forget what you called them but she said it was seven it has to be six in but that's been he's aware of that so okay so he was going adjust it yeah it is adjusted to that correct size I just found out about the meeting of there was a mix up on you know the mail and the phone call so thank God I found out about it but anyway that's or I would have had the uh I didn't know if he sent the mov I no okay 6 in and in oh he did correct oh okay going to be when we're looking at the picture um black background that's it's going to work yeah it's going to be solid black going to be like the letter okay but I believe it's all in one piece but that the background will be black it'll match the and no no brick has been Pain's already black yeah the only thing that was ever painted black was the existing wood or whatever you know the frame of the window there's nothing you know the whole building wasn't touched or anything like that it was just that frame of the window there's there now cor what's that there'ss there now is there a building a uh no [Music] aw usually like to have the uh font in the sh position up on the top I don't know if this is something that looks a little different I is is that your logo yes that's like kind of yeah that's how they whole all my Logos are printed out with that letter but do you have more one location no but I like my business cards and um for instance like Oakland and Haden Heights I'm advertising on their baseball fields so that'll be the logo it all it's just that Lo yeah being printed out motion motion that we approve the application has WR second all right thank you mve in second that we approve your sign and I'm soor I just love my grandson he's a senior his last basketball game lost C I apologize that all right all those in favor please say [Music] I thank so next is 23 First Avenue I'm Robert I'm the architect [Music] that it's green I it's it's it's on have to speak up we can't hear you okay I'm Robert I'm the for Athena and Ben new 23 is the project I have [Music] color Robert you spell that last name i g n a r r i okay all right so yes please tell us what you are here for this is for 23 yes U we're proposing there's two pieces to the puzzle one is an addition to the back of the house it's a one bedroom three bedroom one bathroom house now we're going to add AOS to add a main bedroom with bath full bath and then expand the kitchen below that on the first floor and the addition is um set within the side of the existing house on each side the house sits in non-conformance because of the narrow lot so the addition will be non-conforming and we understand L plan um but the new design it is set in from what's existing now and then on the front of the house there's an existing applique of a sort of a federal bro it's a broken corn with an acorn decoration we're proposing to remove that and put a one I design it's a little bit deeper to provide more protection at the front door get I have [Music] color so tell me again what you're going to move in the front there's an applique that's a it's a casing around the door and it has a p broken pediment with an acorn decoration sort of a federal style it's basically a Georgian house I think we're proposing to remove that and in its place for a custom one that I've designed on the drawings that provides for a bit of an overhang has a a flat tip roof and uh you know an taure that's appropriately designed for the style and it's bracketed so there's no new post we're keeping the stoop and steps as they are we're trying to size it so we don't disturb any of the existing brick and can keep the lighting locations the same we would replace the lights and I showed two different options for the lights on the drawings as well that were proposing right now we're open down any suggestions but whole attempts to get a little bit more coverage on the to um without you know affecting the character of the house and those are the only changes that are going to be visible from the street for the property all the other additions that you propos as far as I can tell from this this admission nothing's going to be visible from sidewalk you get just a glimpse on the right side of the back Edition towards the back but other than that the left side is set almost to the middle of the house you won't see that at all and the roof changes you propose it's going to be basically it's lower than the main roof and it's the same pitch as the main roof it comes at a 90° angle as far as the ridge same roofing material the siding is the same siding that's on the back of the house now the front brick thanks curious about the about the I'm curious about the new door that looks like it's coming in when you're looking at the house on the on the left hand side is that set back it the new door the front door sticking that's new new yeah yeah I'm looking at this on that on the back of the house there's a gray door that's a new one yeah yeah but that's going to be part of the addition yes in the back of the house backyard okay but it would protrude over into when you look at the front of the house would beting over on the side I suppose I'm standing on the sidewalk I would see that no see that yeah not the addition all to the back a little overh one street now I think I think the confusion is when you look at the the pl that you submitted if you're looking at the rear view of the house there's a gray area on on what would be the left side and it makes it look like that's it's going to be a new new part it's in shade sh that's the existing yes just a little not concerned but I just wanted to know good question I actually colored a floe shows it more clearly help you okay sure what you you have we're happy to see stand so this is the site plan and can you would you mind just run walking around sorry so this is the first floor plan the pink is the addition yellow is the existing house the part you're speaking of is this door here that goes in the back so it's shade and Shadow then this is the upstairs the hard to see that's the main house so the only we're doing the front canopy gr and then there's another house here with a TW story Edition so you just go most to this corner just this side there's a one room see window [Music] and this is the back of the it's new so that's that's the addition here's the can going be made of it's U this we were going to use ASAC with paint with two Coates of an exterior paint like to do that so it replicates wood then the roof is aluminum slate gray and I have a sample I can show you and then these two brackets yeah so so these are all and these areand which is aent BR know dark bronze color and then I have a aluminum standing seam roof and I can show you a sample of that we're open to different Suggs Ed arear that would be you would barely see that CU it's a 3 and 12 hitch it's a h [Music] I actually have photographs between the houses so you can see the view EXC this this is the house then this is the view on the right side and this is the view on the left side this on this side you won't see the addition yeah the property is not conforming building is not yes I on every page H wonderful a motion to approve the application as second no problem for all right our next applicant is uh 501 503 Station Avenue that um are looking to demolish the building is there and [Music] put gra a couple more chairs how do you want to face it you're St gentl want to tell us who you are please yes Anthony GW one of the owners of 501 503 Station Avenue okay Derek Spencer from no arkitect Cliff qu from stantech Consulting civil engineer all right so here we are you you've been here a couple times already right and we have you're calling me it the historic review [Music] [Music] presentation um I guess what I was thinking about was that um and you know of course you'll have to get VAR for a couple of different things here so that's okay this is an ongoing application why don't you uh why don't you start with the presentation and that yeah we just want to come back in front of the board one more time before we submit next week to uh to plan get the final we let D Spencer did you want to go through the slides yeah we can start going through the slides all right um so we're really here this is a lot of the same renderings that we may have seen last time last time if you remember the meeting was split just to discuss the demolation building and not really review the new design so we're really now here just to talk about um reviewing the the proposed design see so as mentioned uh this is a 12 unit apartment excuse building with with 12 residences at the second and third floors it's a three story building with no seller uh right now we're proposing two commercial spaces at the ground floor uh shown here in both blue blue and purple um those two spaces will be fronting on station at um around on the the White Horse Pike SI where we have the residential Lobby and then we also have a curb cut for rear loaded parking uh behind the building uh where we have six parking stalls this is the second floor plan so you see we have three units in the front of the building and three units facing the rear uh we have some kind of angled Bays on the building bay windows uh that kind of match some with the existing character of the Street uh you can see that we have two stairwells for egress um we have an elevator in the center of the building so everything is Ada accessible um every single unit will be a type B Ada accessible and we have a trash room on each floor that will have a trash shoot that goes down to the first floor for trash collection third floor is just a repeat of the second floor just another six units and we are proposing um a rooftop deck um half of the rooftop deck will be for residences of the building and there's another smaller rooftop deck on the back side of the building that will be accessed for the commercial spaces only this is a section of the building um on the left hand side would be station a and then where the car is on the right hand side that'll be the parking area underneath the building it's tucked underneath um so you can see we have 35 or 36 feet sorry it's a little small to see up to the the rooftop deck we just look at that a moment again that abolutely that last one when I look at this I see that it's the use of course so be retail down the bottom first floor the second floor and then the third floor it does look like that it looks like it looks like there are three plus another level for the roof Garden making it more like four four levels in build well there's there's an accessible rooftop that will have a green roof and you know and essentially a roof de um you know there is a pilot house structure that helps get you up there it's kind of like a penthouse but that's not by the building code not considered a floor it's just a roof access structure and what would be I'm looking from Station Avenue what would be the safety factor of parit that would be on that yeah so if you want to flip back to the roof deck plan I mean here you can see that we have an8 foot setback from the front uh where the cornis is to where the the roof deck is you can also see this Illustrated here so we have green roof kind of surrounding all of the roof deck areas and then we have a railing at the edge of the roof deck that'll be a code compliant 42 inch railing that'll be 8 feet set back um just to keep the VIS visual mass of the building low we're just proposing a 12in pair ofit around the majority of the building uh so we can see you we have a few renderings in our presentation um later in the presentation where you can actually see the view from station ad and and you can see that there really isn't much that you can see of the uh of the pilot house and I don't think you can see any of the setback railing okay so this year is just a diagram of other three story buildings or buildings over 30 ft in our surrounding one block radius so you can see there's quite a number of buildings that are three stories um or you know over 30 feet this is just another you know representation calling out those buildings you can see our site highlighted in yellow and when designing the building we really took the time to study the existing buildings that are up and down station ad there's quite a mix of architectural Styles but we wanted to try to incorporate some of the most prevalent features so on the left we have some projected Bays bay windows with double hung Windows um on the third image you can kind of see you know how the the storefront is treated where there's a double door that's set back from the property line gives a little bit of coverage to the door for people coming and going and then the storefront glass is up at the the property line and then the the last image on the right you can see kind of like a navy blue ornamental cornice uh with some corals next image you know just another few images from some buildings up and down um station ad that incorporate red brick castone U you know different colored color painted trim um as well as again on the left you have a you know a bay window with double H windows and you a storefront glass with with the sign painted right on the glass which is something we're proposing as well so here is our first rendering um so you can see the majority of the building is red brick um with some you know wood or you know ASAC trim that'll be painted kind of a navy blue color and then we have some red Accents in the trim painted as well um the the first floor around the main commercial space is set in 7 feet from the property line just at the first floor that kind of provides a covered arcade um that could be used for Cafe seating for people to kind of gather and talk and that also was um a talking point with Planning Commission early on about site safety at that intersection and opening up the sight lines a little bit more for both pedestrians and vehicles this is a rendering of the back side of the building um one of the so you can see the parking talking under the building there on the right um one of the comments we got last time was that the building felt too massive and we wanted to find a way to break up the building Mass um so you can see that we're recessing two areas on the back of the building to break the mass up between brick and then transitioning to a siding material uh with a small balcony in between so this really breaks up the back of the building to to look like it's three buildings fronting on station at can can I ask you again I'm sorry could you go back to the one before this one to this one and I know that I know we've talked about this so I'm looking at where the cars would enter let say and and there's that black void there has has some you know P whatever in there but is that where you have the doors for them to go in and if that's true what would be the windows on the right hand side that looks like it's another chunk yeah so the windows to the right of that those are actually that's the entrance door for the residen to use that it things are just showing up on the TV a little bit darker um than normal that's just a an area that's just in shape so nothing is proposed be black but that's just the the wall where everything recesses from the street right right but but there's glass in the rest of the building on the first level isn't there so correct yeah there's not on that perpendicular wall so what would it be uh just the the side the blue siding that you see everywhere else will be any window there not on that one piece of wall it's it's a s foot piece of wall um we could certainly introduce a window there that's an interest what's on the other side of that is that part of the commercial space or theob actually if you want to flip back to the first floor plan I can point that area out to you yeah so that wall you're seeing it's just this little strip of wall right here number that is um page number two so yes it is the commercial space behind that wall like I said it's just that s foot piece of wall so we have Windows on all the walls of the commercial space that are fronting the street we have Windows on the whole way around this little area of wall we we chose not to put a window but you if that's of Interest we you know certainly put one there it more SM but I'm not so go ahead we stopped at page 11 I think yeah so this here is just really a straight on view on station a um so you can see the the one again it's a little dark sorry about the the Shadows there um but the one commercial space on the left um has that very you know iconic entrance to the commercial spaces that you see up and down the street with the double do just set in from the storefront um and then on the right you can see where we have the the planter boxes that's where we have the commercial space set back for that covered arcade for some seating and then you know you can see a little bit more of the trim work here uh the ornamental Cornus up at the top of the building as well as the the bay windows with the blue and the red trim and the double hung Windows how many commercial or retail spaces will there be down on the first we're proposing two um but there's a chance that those could always get combined if one tenant came along that wanted all the space this here is just a more of an experiential view on the street as you're walking down the sidewalk you can get a little bit more of a sense of the materials uh the navy blue siding and we're proposing some wall sconces along the the walls and the pillars along the sidewalk to illuminate the sidewalk a little bit as well as the building this is from that same spot just looking up the building you can get a sense for you know what that ornamentation looks like on those bays and how it's very similar to a lot of the other buildings up and down the street and here's a view right at the corner right now there's a welcome to Haden height sign that would be um going away that's on the site so we wanted to bring in some of that signage I believe I think I you know we tried to match the font as best as we can I think we talked about the font before in previous meetings we have that sah font in there um we had that you know the same bronze color that the uh the same bronze metal that the the wall sconces would be as well this is just some material call outs you can see the uh the bronze letters the the navy blue siding at the base you can see some different brick patterns we're using we are using mostly a running bond pattern between some of the windows we're introducing a stack bond pattern just for a little ornamental accent there we do have a castone band along the bottom of the building um as is traditional with a lot of buildings uh there' be a limestone course for a few inches above the sidewalk uh so we're producing that as well and that helps get some of the trim material up off the ground just for any you know to mitigate any issues with water now this was it was requested that we take the rendering and we set it into an actual picture of the site so this was an actual picture I went out and took from across the the intersection and then we photoshopped in to scale of exactly what that building would look like and how it fits in with its surroundings I think that we stay there just a moment think that that is um to a historic preservation a alarming how big it is compared to building on right yeah so I will just remind you I mean everything is in perspective here so our our building is about the exact same height as that building next door um so just you know that building is another 50 60 feet Beyond us so yes I yes but but maybe you can help me out here was I I understand from talking to some people that the property to the left which would be down Station Avenue right now it's a specialty dentist and there's a parking lot there that those two properties have also been purchased by you because some kind of a conversation about them which would make that be twice as long down down the street that okay I just wanted to set it there's no conversations of purchasing okay just wanted to thank you so this is just a view of the building from the other angle with that Dentistry shop next door uh you can kind of see again um you know we're proposing we are going to have a party wall so you know there was talks of what's going to be on that party wall since you know we can't have any windows by code along that wall uh so we're you know saying maybe there's a mural or some type of other graphic that can go on that wall so we have some height comparisons here just so you can really see things in true elevation just so we can kind of you know accurately compare our building height to the other buildings around us um so 200 White Horse Pike directly across the street from us on station AB we are about the exact same height as that building uh about 35 ft and then along the elevation along long Station app uh there's um a building 520 Station app um that we are the peak of their roof is actually a bit taller than our roof and that's the last page of our presentation on page 17 uh the lighting you just explain what direction the light actually shining an up down how um yeah so it's going to be shining back towards the building then also up and down so it kind of illuminate the column a bit have some more indirect light to the sidewalk we didn't want to have anything that was you know blasting light out and might you know get in the eyes of drivers or cause blare anything like that so it's really more you know indirect light page 12 I just want to talk a little about the materials here what material are you proposing for the white boxes uh so that would be a fiber cement L and how about in parking area same material same mat ear and that was in response to someone suggesting that the massing was too long yeah we had it is all brick across the back and you know there was some some comments that you know it just looks too massive could we introduce ways to break up the mass a little bit more so that's why we introduced the balcony and then uh where it's kind of like the lightest material between the last two sets of Windows that's a light well that kind of cuts into the building um so again it kind of breaks up the mass of the building to look like three you know individual buildings along yeah I think that's very successful I personally think it should just be BR the whole ACR I think that would be more consistent with all the other we thought so requested that we change it but you know we're again happy to take feedback into consideration you have any objection to putting it all brick our original design was all brick I just want to make sure that that's fine okay I wonder now if anybody has any questions about the [Music] site I have a few more questions on the presentation um this is actually a good slide for it so when you're coming down the way where PL you're looking this is what you're going to see right there's no other screening for the parking lot other than that Landscaping correct we wanted to keep it low just because we wanted to make sure that any visibility for a car pulling out will be able to you know see everything as well what about further back that would affect visibil no it it wouldn't I mean we could we could certainly you know introduce some taller Landscaping if that's you prefer yeah I think you know if we're worried about the architectural detail I'd rather I'd rather look at Landscaping in far if you guys can provide what at what foot you know what uh area you'd like that to start that's that's fine yeah I think that that would be my recommendation of the planning board I let the engineers the engineers um and determine what the set back should be just whatever yeah we we we'll look at a site triangle and just make the adjustment the landscape height so that we're clear the side triangles coming out of the driveway okay just question for that large and I'm not suggesting you change this like anyway I how far long you are I me all things equal would you rather have would you rather have um more first floor space or parking what would in a perfect world no menal parking requirement using all allsite parking what in a perfect world what would you rather have not having to worry about parking yeah rather I mean I think we're we're getting up against it right now with people we've talked to about the first floor space it seems too small so some of the people that we wanted to bring in it's even if we combine them it's too small uh so I I don't think we can go much smaller on the commercial yeah I think my maybe it's St for for this application application necessarily but we only have so much downtown space and to use that much of it for for parking more cars when I think a lot of this will be residential who park at night whereas everyone else in the way where Pike is you know the businesses are using it during the day yeah and I know you have some shared parking now which is which is better because then this whole site would be a parking lotse um and you know the rest of our downtown is not like that all the other stores um I think it's something to consider for our recommendation huge groups you know why we taking this Prime real estate and putting cars on it just doesn't it doesn't seem like the right call I think that's one of the negotiations we have with the planning board throughout this process is this was the happy median between you know what we wanted and what they wanted and it's better it's better than the alternative which is put 13 so I mean I think they started the right direction at least yeah I mean my preference would be why don't waste this and have less you know it's not good for the tax base either so I would have in a perfect world I would have moved all this off site and there's you know there's plenty of parking up and down the pike at these businesses it just doesn't seem yeah we hear uh we've kind of heard different you know as far in some of our meetings as far as you it's the parking obviously the it just it's a very poor land use overall so I think it's something we can consider in future applications I know this is pretty far down the road yeah yeah I see what you're saying Jonathan because if you just soon you're coming down way p and you have to stop there at the red light or something and that that is what you see it's not the best that's not best look yeah and if you look across the street at 200 white War place and their parking spots right one yeah yeah not make take shots at Cherry Hill but there's plenty of Cherry Hill things that are just parking L Frontage and that's not really the look you just look at parking spot it doesn't feel the commercial Corridor Main Street downtown most the um has been conversation with the um regarding the setb on that side yes we've taking that in consideration yeah we've actually at one point increased the setback from I think 3T to 5T and the planning board voted against adding additional Frontage in the white hor the planning board voted against adding additional Frontage on additional set addition set I'm just and you know it was kind of brought up across the street 200 their building is setback but their parking is actually at the same setback we will be at so it's kind of the trade off of of of the building being closer if we go back any farther that would have to be parking and to your point is that what we want in the front or do we want the building what was discussed at planning board is basically so across the street at 500 station you have the parking you have the parking spaces in front of the building along the White Horse Pike and I think everybody considered that to be fairly unight and so it was the preference of having this presentation with which would allow them they would have more parking in the rear with building with the additional or less of setback on the white by side I think that was you guys refer yeah yeah and that's definitely better than what's happening at I said before sorry the street there of course in my perfect world we're notk we understand compromise so just for the record is is now 5T I I just have a general question about the are you guys married to that no we just tried to you know some sort of welcome the Haden Heights and just because that sign new now that says that but we're you we're completely open to suggestions I would assume the bu six in yeah saes a we we could certainly reduce them as well I just wonder if it's appropriate on the building like I just I do want to mention this this is part of the Redevelopment plan in the town and so so they don't and they've been very good about working with planning board and getting feedback from them um so I don't I I don't pretend to know all the nuances about it but U all of the variances that they would might need from planning board such as criticize differential on on a lettering wouldn't necessar I mean like I said they've been coming to planning for this discuss but it doesn't necessarily the same treatment as a normal application would I guess I'm thinking of this from historic perspective we don't have any other signage like that in town it seems in myview a little aggressive on the corner there could probably do better for a sign into the B we're open for that yeah we just you know figure we have those words because those words are there now you know I understand yeah we don't have to have we just have the once everybody's done speaking we'll [Music] open done a good Jobing the vocabulary further upgrades to hang had always been this you know traditional setbacks all along White pass that's already been reviewed by plan and [Music] accept you can always maintain the position but it's an issue that's already been considered by so I guess we have to think about this they're calling this the final historic preservation commission meeting on this I guess we'd have to decide as a group how we felt about the lettering their signs or whatever that isn't to be doing that we really should leave with that or have them leave with that when finished so we to talk about that and I think one of two other things maybe that um talking we were talking about maybe so um write down go over again has any questions on this yeah I think we should at least put on considerations for whether or not the back of the building is going to maintain deciding as show here we're going to go all brick welome to sign I would also add the conceptual mural I think probably I don't know mural I think I think the mural correct you guys I mean I don't know if that that doesn't have to be and it could be it could be blind we just figured just be I think yeah if at some point you decide to to paint it or change the appearance of you'd have to come back but I I wouldn't want to hold you up on have an hour debate on what kind of should count so let's just yeah I think definitely The Brick we're need to make also the Landscaping you mentioned for the uh the buffer Landscaping I just had two well one of the problems was the setback I was I am a little bit concerned about that I would like to have more but you know that's kind of already in so um I did I did know some of the landscaping though because again that is something that we're supposed to be responsible for um I'm even wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to just have when when you get to the end product I'll say to to have you come again to us for some of these things like the brick or the size of the uh size of the sign or or whatever it might be um because I I was just curious about one of the uh trees the trees you only you're showing two trees only on Station Avenue uh within little setbacks some kind of a little thre sided section I guess of some soil with chips or something um but because you're so close to the sidewalk in the street that that does seem like that might be a problem I'm I'm trees I'm on the tree tree sha tree commission so definitely the trees but I'm wondering um about pedestrians walking by if this is going to be a problem with these with these trees uh there was one there was a lilac kind of a lilac tree um and even though the size maybe would be okay of for the end of building they the actual you know it shows on this picture but I don't know it would show on that picture the actual trees because the trees itself the tree itself would be starting lower and would be hanging Into The Pedestrian area so I would only ask that maybe when you get to that we get to the Landscaping maybe we can talk about that I can I can comment on that so so the trees that are going to be proposed there are not going to be ones that are going to have limbs under 7t you know if something did you know you Lim them up but ones that are more of an upright habit because of the width of the sidewalk we're actually maintaining the treat the the the street skate treatment that's out there currently with the combination of the concrete and the brick and the brick wraps around the trees um I I mean I it's the setback to the buildings in that area that are out there currently are similar so I don't I don't believe there's going to be any issue with pedestrian Passage through there um you know you've got about 10 ft the tree is in about 3T from the curve line so you've got a good six feet of area you know to walk past there and um I believe there's a tree there now there is with a storefront that'll be similar but it would but this building will be closer to the sidewalk not not on station right the corner there it's the it's on the same plane that the dentist office is next to us so it's it's it's it's there currently page two we can see that page two have the existing building there page two yeah that's good this one right here yeah so you can you can see the frontage of the dentist office um you know next door to us and actually the little curved you know tree tree planner area I would like to see some more Landscaping in in maybe some bigger bushes or something around because that for that whole big property I only have the two the two of these smallish trees just doesn't seem like it would be enough to to maybe soften it in the places where we might like to see it and if it's possible just to just submit those recommendations I really don't think we could come back again at that point we have to push forward with this sure sure talking about down the road again just when you're get down to the end now are you talking about strict station that or you talking about the White Horse no I'm talking because they were saying on the White Horse Pik side they don't want much because of the sine well the [Music] other so it's kind of been you know some conflicting uh you know you Point uh but introducing one or two more Street trees I really don't see as an issue whatsoever you know we do have some underground utilities on that area along uh you know White forse Pike related to the traffic signal and so forth we just got to be cognizant of not conflicting with those but we've got a you know we've got a reserve strip out there a war Reserve strip so certainly you know adding adding a street tree or two it another have to be ones that are lower habit because we've got overhead wires up higher you know we don't want to do what's what was done traditionally 20 or 30 years ago we Bradford pairs that grow right up through the wires and so forth but there are plenty of options for you know say ornamental style trees that fit into that 15 to 20 foot height range that that are compatible with you know with the with the overhead utilities too yes so yes but I would I would like to maybe even if I could come to planing board or one of us could come to planing at the very very end um because when I looked at the trees the two trees they it says that they grow best in cool Summers sorry goes best in cool Summers we definitely do not have cool Summers here in New Jersey so anyway just a it's just a thought because if you're only going to be able to do two I would like to have two that really would do well there sure and and I'll say this the the trees were selected by a landscape architect and there and there's going to be a landscape architect reviewing them for the board so we're not we're not married to the species that was there we pick something that we thought was appropriate but you know it's it's not a bit unusual to go through some back and forth the land landscape selection in the planning board process that to be included with the landscape that's just want to sure because I would like to see more rather than less of anything on there questions all right so so this thank you very much for your presentation you been very patient with us you've been back many times recognize your faces you know so we appreciate you working with us so but this time we're going to ask the public anybody has anything that they would like to say please come forward and give us your name and your address good evening I'm colen baz I live at 129 white horse Pike so I am one property over on the White Horse pipe from that corner one thing I would like to suggest because that beautiful rendering that was put up at the corner um of the building which is a really nice building uh it does take up the whole Corner if you had a rendering of the other three corners you would realize how different that looks completely different look everything else sits back it sits back well and uh has uh adjust a very different look so while it's very nice it's a massive building going where we don't have them uh at one meeting they talked about this would be like the gateway to Haden Heights and that's a lovely idea except the Gateway is an opening this building encroaches there are several things to think about and one of them I brought up before was uh about the safety that is the intersection where the children cross to and from school and it's on that side there are many accidents at that intersection this will definitely change the site line and I know the first floor is set back but what's supporting that there's still pillars am I wrong yeah there's still pillars it is going to impact the sight line you're talking about children bicycles I can see from my kitchen window and crossover station White Horse plate and they love chy the light and there will be no Split Second to help there's just you're cutting off the sight line when you're talking about um the uh Landscaping we're diminishing the Landscaping because where there is a a lawn presently that will be built upon the on the White Horse pipe side so the problem which they rightly point out with the uh Island area toward the White Horse pipe after the sidewalk does have a lot of utility boxes I think you're very limited of what could go there and you also wouldn't want bushes that get too high because again it will ruin any kind of sight line there's nobody along the White Horse Pike that has anything out in that Island area nowhere go along that whole White Horse bike this is very very different you're talking about the parking spaces and oh we shouldn't use that parking spaces you're taking an area that had very few apartments and putting 12 they have to park somewhere and that is not enough if you would you want to be a business owner downstairs where are you parking when you get to work are some of those parking spaces for the owner what about the people that work there we're not we don't this I'm just this is the whole picture I'm just saying when you're talking they put up the picture of how this look and when it's this is what I'm saying to you this is big for this area these are all the problems and you're now starting to see well we really need trees we need things well you've taken away the area where they're trees because you want a bigger building there that's why what was there was there everything on that corner sits back considerably take a good look and this does not it just might not be the appropriate place I know there are other buildings that are three story but they're not on those Corners they are not I know the dentist up the street for me wanted a third story they didn't let him have it so I don't know why I I just think you need it's big for that corner with a lot of problems they're they're just putting out all these articles now about we need help with the sewage or our lines have to be redone and all this and we're going to add 12 Apartments where there's presently two three that aren't really even being used that's a big big change and I don't know that it supports all of that it I don't think we're there so these are my concerns it's been brought up before some of these things um some of them are still being talked about I know they' tried to address some of these things which is appreciated um the other thing the fourth fourth floor up there what kind of Len going to be up there is there going to be lighting up there shining over in my house no no there will be small accent lighting on the ground just to obviously on the roof deck on the roof deck yeah there will just be accent down around the ground level to make sure no one you know trips everyone can see where they're walking so there' be no up liting nothing okay see thank you very much all right thank Youk you because I guess it's better sit M Bob Hunter 213 Second Avenue I have a question maybe two comments if I may tell me more about what the blue material is I I I looked I read but I didn't then research what it was how durable is that's been around for a long time yeah I heard that maybe they're not using it but I couldn't hear yeah so the blue material it's it's a poly Ash panel U so it's a very strong durable material very similar to just like a wood panel but it's completely rot resistant it's a very stable material it doesn't expand and contract U it's even so stable that you are allowed to actually put it below gr and they can take as much water as you want it's it's from duration mill work if you want them up they're actually from New Jersey but it's a poly as is the actual material thank you uh the two comments uh and I don't know well the first one I I believe there's a an ordinance that would prevent uh them parking uh on the White Horse Pike in front of if that was a front of the building as was being discussed I think this that would cause another variant to be going to place because I think there's an existing ordinance saying you can't park in front of your building just a comment and um I was through went through all the other meetings and um I was one of the people who said I thought this building was too big for this particular site uh that has been resolved uh you the planning board mayor and counsel and Redevelopment has essentially said this building can be built as proposed in terms of the actual building so what we're discussing tonight I believe and correct me is the skin of the building now I I know you listen to It's too massive it's too big it's and you and you were very responsive in terms of the Bay and and I'm conflicted about the Bays you may or may not like what I'm about to say having all that work if I were going to look at a design of this building or the original building I don't know if you prefer building the original building but that's what I would prefer it's more contemporary I don't know if it's going to fit in any better or not fit in but that's my comment I I prefer the original proposal and I did go back and look at that uh to the skin of this building and uh you know I think and throughout this uh for what I could see you're proposing using very good material uh I think it's going to be a you know structurally very St sound and pre material building so I'm grateful for all that thank you thank you thanks good evening I'm Dan 217 I I just have I guess one question I don't know who um was very comfortable with the beginning part of this meeting and the presentation I got a little confused when we talked about Sidelines when I look at that proposed corner just from memory this is not what I do for a living it's kind of congested now um when I see kids there I don't see it as the best sight line view are you really incre increas encroaching it all to the current corner of what I would call the AT&T building is there any difference closer to the corner of the Pik and Station Avenue that Mak sense so so the current building you know as far as Station Avenue is concerned is right up on Station Avenue but there is yard area on the on the White Horse bik side that's up a little off station on the corner right that's up a No it's it's it's there and um the now now you've got the W hat height sign that sits out in that area which actually could be ConEd construction itself U but you know the key Dimension here you know on on that side and you know the the the RightWay itself is about a little over 12 ft and then we're bringing the building back another five plus that so the building's 17 ft off the curve line which you know under ashto standards for Sight lines you actually want to be 14 feet back from the edge of the travel Lane and the travel Lane's right not right on the curve line either so we've got we got more more than more than the design standard for for for for site um so and you know with the fact that while there certainly are columns coming down there you've got open sight lines through that portion of the building also um so I'm I'm pretty comfortable from a design standpoint and look we've got to go to the state of New Jersey the curve Cut's getting moved now it's getting moved further away from the intersection which is a plus two now the current curve cut is probably another 10 ft closer to the intersection and where we're going to be here and getting further away from that and look I I've lived sing entire life and done a ton of work in town here I know how congested it is out there traffic is difficult um but uh I'm I'm comfortable that that as the building is set back and adding extra 5 ft on that side was an important change it's frankly one I talked to these guys about before we got in front of anybody you know so yeah I I think we're good in that respect so good thank you yeah thank you thank you else [Music] anything all right so U somebody mentioned something about the the parking spaces you can figure out some other configuration for that or provide that I I don't I think we're just they've already done a ton of on this so I don't I don't suggest for this application they move anything at this point but I think in the future if we're making recommendations and there's an alternative to useing up our downtown space using existing parking elsewhere that I mean that's I think that's the solution you know you're not going to get restaurant style parking on any parcel in our downtown but there are other areas to to do that in downtown if you get to a calling but it's not like you pull up and there's 30 parking Spates around every restaurant that's for a reason you know it's not a big deal to walk a block or two or three to get to a restaurant you have viable downtown that people actually want to come to I mean we only have one I would say genuine down restaurant on on the station Avenue I think that's yeah like that more my own personal selfish reasons I guess um you know it's like if you go to a mall you're parking in a big parking lot you walk five blocks to get Interior right so again in a perfect world I'd say do not use Station Avenue properties for paring it's just it's a very bad but um yes so sorry that's my longwinded answer saying I wouldn't make any recommendations on parking certainly looking toward the future all right so then um the discussion was about the back being brick not white of the building the white broke up broke up the mass of the building more than having an old bre so I prefer the white because you built broke up mass of the building it looks like multiple buildings instead of one big one from that perspective I I I I thought the addition of the um that the tech I guess was an effective method of breaking up the rear Building look less massive I'm not sure you know we only have the one rition um I so since you have that split in the middle there I I I would personally I would prefer the brick all the way across because I think I think the the massive size issue is addressed by that little that the middle that my reference I'll just what Chris said I don't think I'll say more [Music] eloquently I get a lot of difference to Geor so if it looks more consistent and better like better thought out I think that's one school thought on it is it doesn't look like it was slapped together something else the my preference I think both look pretty good I think there's a lot of put into it but my preference would be for as well okay then why don't we um why don't we put that as one of things that we want to vote on to see whether we want to that so [Music] um well I think we I think we could just do a thumbs up thumbs down on whether you know whether it stays dark or white and then when we make the overall motion we include the v in that in that motion if you're in favor of the the building being W bre in the [Music] back I'm in favor because overall way I look at it is overall this is we're going to be making a recommendation to either the planning board and over councel so those respective bodies should see our overall opinion based on the number of votes so if it's 41 32 whatever it might be that they should know that yeah oh yeah um I'll okay so then uh how about the the signage welcome to have nights would we recommend the letter should be smaller or even not even have personally I think there should be a sign I think it's yeah I I don't like using a building as signage for the I just don't think it's a good idea there's no other place i' waffled on this one myself that go back and forth one I think there was even a prior was there a prior iteration than this one just just a different fun yeah um I think I'd come down and i' rather not have it um just because it's different that it just doesn't there's no other equivalent in the town um I think either way wouldn't wouldn't upset me greatly one way or the other but I again I just think different I I wrestle with this issue u i I agree with a lot of what George said um an issue that we have though is currently at that corner there is a large Sign Heights and I think it looks nice thank you R uh and I think the loss of that you know it would would be unfortunate so I I don't necessarily think the sign has to be on the building but I do think some kind of signage in that area would be a good idea we could do something smaller on that column right on the corner you know it's not huge column but if you still want some sign I mean that's you know we're suggestion yeah be big enough for a drive yeah yeah you know I don't and I don't this is the kind of thing that I don't feel comfortable telling any applicant you know what they should do with the exterior of their building you know you guys come to us and tell us what you think you know tell us if this is consistent with what the overall should be and we give our opinion on that so I I I am reluctant to give any kind of recommendation on that now if you guys make a recommendation like on a signage aren we potentially opening oursel to come back here for approval and assignment you are uh well I I wouldn't I wouldn't do that to you guys you guys have been here enough um so and no I don't think you would have to um because as I mentioned before what we're doing here tonight is making a recommendation to both planning board the council and we we'll vote on our on recommendations for these discret issues and they can make a decision based on that recommendation so you wouldn't have to come back here okay and you know they might get mad at me for my decision on that but that's except the way things are now we are respons ible for signage we're talking about they don't have to come back so then what Chris is saying is they mention about putting something on one of [Music] the I guess that's you're not proposing not proposing just we're just going to say that would be no sign that was what you felt not that you wanted it some other place I think I think our recommendation is just the want toy signage that's shown here or send that recation all right so so Chris says no to night sign and I also don't [Music] issue to read um okay all right so then moving on um I don't anybody want [Music] anything I don't they they haven't submitted a proposal for any mural just the idea it might be used as a mural for someday once that how much further at the back of the building is there that that whats up against the the driveway for that that next house theow office there I'm sorry what's the when we're talking about the back of the building as it goes back towards a looking at the back building what is at the end of barking yeah yeah so I'm talking yeah yeah so there's nothing there's no area at all if sign okay thank okay so then we got all of these I guess that we now we [Music] should [Music] and just to restate what my recommendation would be is make polar that you know taller screening Landscaping up until the point that it doesn't affect S triangles or visibility you know and you we'll we'll give some difference to the engineers from that perspec and also all right so that's all so so we have four four pieces today so the first one is about the parking spaces no sorry that's not right no that's not right the first one is the bag should be great and not what no again I mean it's we're not going to this isn't going to be treated like a normal application that we see you know for approval windows or a door or something what we're doing is we're going based on their over based upon their application as ENT yes we're just an Advisory Board to the plan we've discussed the discrete issues that we have concerned concerns with in their overall application I think we're going the overall recommendation would be to accept this application as submitted with the following recommendations and then for each of those discrete recommendations uh planning board and Council can see the breakdown of the votes um and then make their decision based on that okay when it gets to them right when it gets to them all right so we have we have the um the back being brick and that white and we have that um so the rest of us said that we would it was okay for to sck the way [Music] AC see and then Landscaping taller [Music] screening so it was 4 to one [Music] we said that we wanted the landscape where's where's K tonight yes so when they sign to sign or any sign on the building itself it was 4 [Music] to and then Landscaping that you would like rightest okay just on the sign the um it's be about the the Brick is going to be recommend that the back of building should be all right all the way across and not have not to be opened up by two other sections that one I make motion that we approve the application with the following recommendations one I move that we approve the application with the following recommendations my voice sorry one the landscape U be taller in the area that hies car parking um out to the point where engineering says it's needs to be short for visability as you pull out parking l number two that the um so material on the back of the building be all brick I'm sorry let's go back to landscape that was on the back of the building um The Proposal as as submitted shows different sighting material brick one part white or Another Part our proposal is that it be all brick on the back that was 4 to one as far as the signage is concerned where it currently says welcome to nights we propose that there be no signage on the voting that vote was 3s three for no signage one for keeping it as his and one to have stain I will your seconded all favor all right so those three things then we pass thank you for coming thank you hope you work through this thank you my