##VIDEO ID:2xsB3o9_8yE## and this one here the top one that might be real short as one lot talking about multiple Lots yeah oh yeah all that be mainly for tree preservation then today I went up there a had preconstruction meeting out those guys that doen short and iot remove remove you go yeah you know what he explained it wrong to the guy on the machine have you ever gone down May [Music] you know yeah we've seen similar um how long have you been in okay we used to come say they bober the engineer right not I was in a bur yeah town engine we did some Park stuff there at Malo and B we also did the planning reviews smart yeah that was a long time ago two years ago I see the mobile a lot of the mobile par the building got slightly bigger so and they applied for it so it's easier to just okay TW do tonight and I did send that did you eventually get you got my this do you want to record it you don't have to record it I'm glad I wasn't the only one he doesn't well I you know what I did take off Saturday and Monday so that's they can't that was just here now might your job coming I got I got this you guys figure out okay are we uh we open good business public on yeah to my all right the um hesport Township joint land use board meeting for September 4th 2024 is called to order it is uh 6:30 or minute or two after 6:30 uh we'll start with flag salute please of the United States of America and stand nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right uh my name is Tom Mckay I'm the vice chair I'm presiding tonight because our chair Harold crofer is um unable to attend because of U physical illness um so we'll we need to uh have a reading of the Sunshine Law notice that this meeting was published in accordance with the open public meetings act all right we have a standard announcement we we we start no new business after 10:30 that's that means if you're already we're already working on your case before 10:30 we'll of course continue it we're not going to start a new uh presentation after 10:30 uh may I have a roll call please everyone Mrs Tori here Mr ER Bradley here Mrs Kelly here mayor Gilmore here Mr toochi here Mrs bagio absent Mr Murphy here Miss Costco here Mr novita here Mr Holden absent Mr cifer absent Mr McKay here uh before we get to number six on the agenda the items for business we have one matter that we need to insert even though it's not on the agenda and I'll ask mer Gilmore to address that issue at this time thank you um chairman McKay and the rest of the board Lord I received a um letter of resignation from from AG Crow fer so it's with deep regrets that I have accepted his resignation he has been a rock for this town for 17 years and he'll be a hard act to follow so also upon doing this um it is my um duty to um fill the class 4 position and I am hereby appointing Richard Gus Bradley to that position thank you very good Mr be sworn in does he need to be sworn in swear him as a I didn't hear that I am appointing Richard Gus Bradley to last four he's been an alternate one okay all right does he need to be sworn in that's what I was asking all right he's already sworn in and that's sufficient yeah it was sworn in as an alternate but now full okay all right stand and raise your right hand please swear or that you will faithfully and duties of office a member of The Joint land board in the CH sport will uphold the Constitution of the United States and the state of New Jersey to the best of your ability to help the I do thank youat congratulations all right mayor good thank you Mr K all right items for business um let me just skip down to C hesport mobile home park LLC that will not be handled tonight so if anybody's here for that be advised that if will not be handled uh Council legal councel for the applicant has asked that the matter be carried to the October 2nd 2024 meeting and uh he will Ren notice so his letter of September 4 2024 uh will be of record uh requesting that so um I I have a motion to uh adjourn this matter to the October 2nd 2024 meeting so second Mr Bradley yes Mrs Tori yes Mrs Kelly yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr toochi yes Mr novita yes Mr Murphy yes Miss Costco yes and Mr McKay yes and again I'll repeat for everybody that this will be Ren noticed by the applicant for that particular uh meeting in October all right uh the next matter uh is the pra case uh which we dealt with before and uh we took an adjournment of that and uh we're back today thank you Mr M thank you board members uh my name is Robert Fleer I'm the uh applicant's attorney uh as the board will recall we were here in uh July uh and presented the application and the U matter was continued for us to uh uh address a few issues and make uh and make some further submissions um I did submit an addendum and sufficient copies I assumed you each got a copy of it um with uh pictures of the uh resident that's residence that's currently on the on the premises um it shows the front and the rear of the residence as well as now completed rehab um there are also some representative examples of the work that my client has done on other projects that was uh one of the question questions that was asked um there was a question concerning what finishing work uh need or what else needs to be done on that property there is some finishing work and um my client plans to put an asphalt uh driveway uh to be laid and there'll be some Landscaping that he would like to complete assuming we get approval here uh to complete as one project uh for the entire uh for both properties um there was also a question concerning whether or not my client had obtained the New Jersey registered new home builder license that's still pending um finally there was an issue concerning the merger of the Lots I'd like to put a pin on that if you don't mind U Mr agresta is going to continue has a few things to be made regarding the property itself and then we'll we'll come back to that issue uh that I think we can resolve pretty uh pretty uh quickly Mr gleer I see it may be this may be included in your in your your short l but but if it isn't I want to raise it um we also talked about a survey of the properties in the immediate area didn't we well I don't well Mr gr is going to address what other properties are okay so he's going to incorporate part of his that's part of his I just didn't want that to be forgotten no it's not it's part of his presentation so with that um MRG continue and I I know Mr Kingsbury was going to swear you went again and we'll go from there raise your right hand please you swear or affirm testimony you give tonight would be the truth or truth nothing but the truth SE I do you um so last time we discussed the criteria pertaining to the variances we're requesting uh we addressed the positive criteria address the special reasons gave several examples to that and then we touched upon the negative both prongs of the negative criteria so I'm not going to reiterate anything that I discussed last session um I'm sorry back in July um just give a a few more proofs to further enhance um the criteria for granting the variances so uh Vice chair as you had discussed um you had requested a a survey of the area uh we did take a look at the surrounding area we found five properties that are either very similar um with the same lot width or let less lot withd than we're proposing so the addresses three of them are located right along me I'm sorry four of them are located right along Main Street um that's 1203 main or I'm sorry Main Avenue 10:15 1111 Main and then 1212 hannes Avenue is a long main but Bears a hannes Avenue address Sam do you I'm sorry to interrupt but trying to follow it in just a narrative format do you have a copy of that map or do you have handouts or something for happy to hand those out this year is the uh property information list on the njparcels.com it outlines everything all your property information is up top and then on the bottom there's a small snippet of the tax maps and the properties that we're discussing are boxed out in red and then the just a quick list of the attributes of concern are outlined in red as well so happy to hand those out yeah while you're doing that I I I think we can all still hear you did you say there's there's five similar so three are the same wi and two are less or did I have that I would have to look exactly at my notes they are either the same width or less I don't know the exact number off the top of my head your chart will tell us though absolutely thank you I watch out for the wire for the mic thank you I would have fell right over that and face thank you Mr gleener we're going to mark this as an exhibit yes not sure we can start a new number sequence with tonight's date or we can continue yeah let's start with tonight's date okay exhibit a for tonight yesk so there as I had discussed it outlines the five properties that we identified um all the lot widths are identified as well as the lot areas uh the one lot that kind of sticks out in my head um it's as low as 4300 Square ft 4335 um now granted this was constructed in the 19 1950s I believe um but some of them were constructed as recently as 2000 um the one lot uh 214 hannes Avenue is actually identical to ours um and then some of the other Lots I did not do a full assessment but there did appear to be some setback issues some different variances that may have come along with those lots as well um I didn't want to be you know completely belabor the point just looking to provide some extra proof some examples of what we're proposing to do what we're proposing to do and how it Blends into the existing neighborhood did anybody have any questions on those forums after taking a quick look that I that I could possibly address or shed some light on are all these in the R2 Zone um I would have to refer back to the zoning map but I would believe that they are the only reason I'm asking is that in that part of Main Avenue we have a special restricted piece of probably two or three streets and I want to make sure that what you're comparing this to is in the R2 Z see I have a do zoning map here actually it would be outlined on all those forms unfortunately I gave out all my copy so if you don't mind I take a quick yeah they're all on the other side okay no problem yeah I do not have my copy of the you you don't have a a large version of this that you can I apologize I do not uh all right for for for the board's benefit um looking the one it's one sheet per example correct that is correct we have five five examples so we should have five sheets and if we just take the first sheet um where is the applicant's property on that so we are located along Stokes Avenue if you f FP over to sheet number two lots we are basically the two Corner Lots so we are lots 9 10 and 11 on the right hand side of Stokes and then one of our examples is Lot number 19 directly across okay across the street um if we stay on that same sheet and you go all the way to the right hand side there's a small triangle in the corner lot 5.01 that's the third example so that's just one block over and then the other two examples are located along hannes Avenue which I believe is about four blocks down all [Applause] right all right is every is everybody following if you're you're not following raise your hand and we'll uh ask that we get more detail so Sam on if we just start on the first one sure so I think it might be helpful to sort of walk through and maybe remind the board what's what is required what you're proposing and then and then talk about that sure sure so the requirements for the Zone the R2 zone are for Frontage is 100 ft and then for lot area is 15,000 feet so if we look at our first example um on sheet 1 to14 hannes Avenue the frontages and the lot areas are nearly ident or not nearly they're identical to our proposed two lots that we're proposing 75t of Frontage 9,375 ft of lot area and when was that lot created or built that lot was created in 1950 so that predates that is four out of the five here were created in the 50s is that that that lot is developed presently that is correct yes with a house okay yep all right well you know it wouldn't hurt uh to go through these one by one sure absolutely um if we flip over to page two 1015 Main Avenue um that is an extremely small lot bottom right hand corner outlined in red um faces along Main Avenue the frontage of the lot albeit triangular the front along Main Avenue is 75 ft and the total lot area is 4,335 Ft very very small lot um that also was created in the 1950s 1952 is it developed yes it is yes all of our examples are developed I did not pull anything that was not developed okay all right and then uh as you said on that I'm sorry Vice chair one of the other gentlemen was asking go oh no go ahead I just wanted these were built in the 50s correct correct examples of a pre-existing non-conforming that is correct yes correct all right and sticking with the second sheet just to repeat if we look on Stokes at Lots 9 10 and 11 those are the applicants that is correct that's the applicant's property yes sir okay and you're essentially slicing Lot 10 and half and creating two lots correct the the the existing house that's being renovated yes straddles which two that straddles Lots nine and lots 10 okay and you're proposing of course to 11 create a new lot with half of Lot 10 and lot 11 that is correct that would be identical they would then be twin Lots correct this this isn't all right and let's go to the third sheet so we understand that third sheet is our our neighbor across the street Lot number 19 that's right directly across oh no I'm sorry that is not that is one block over that is one block over from Stokes Avenue along Main Street also developed uh 50 ft wide 7,500 Square fet lot area and your chart says it has a dwelling on it correct okay and what's the age the uh the year dated on this form here is 1960 so a little bit later than our 50s but still obviously predates um the most recent ordinances right okay uh sheet four sheet four is our neighbor across the street um we are on the opposite side where're Lots 9 10 and 11 they're Lot 19 um same deal this lot is constructed um 50 ft wide and I have 6,250 square ft of lot and it has a dwelling on it that is correct yes constructed in the years telling me 1950 so again same same deal creating the most recent ordinances okay and the last lot and the last and final lot is a little more recent uh year constructed 2000 and this is the one that is what do we have for Frontage here um 56.5 ft of Frontage in a lot area 5,163 ft so again it's telling us it was constructed in 2000 much much smaller smaller than what we're proposing right chair just to let you know that all these properties do are in the R2 zone They are all in R2 I just want to make sure because of the SRC Zone that is very close to one of these properties I just want to reassure on record that that was the case right so all all all five properties in exhibit a are in R2 yes Mr n can you explain that restriction for that special restriction for R2 and this case this was long before our time this was something that was in um that changed due to a court case and then became um a restricted commercial um we've had a few houses built there but they had to get use variances on them okay thank you welcome all right so continue please okay and we feel that these these five Lots support even further the positive criteria and the negative criteria of you know blending in seamlessly with the neighborhood um so just to kind of close out here I just want to present a couple pieces uh we our last exhibit was exhibit a for the evening yes um I'm going to call this exhibit B uh just a quick display of the before we'll call it pre-construction and post construction um this is the existing structure stles Lots 9 and 10 um this is what it looked like beforehand and this is what it looks like after construction so the these are in your packets the only reason I'm showing this is because I wanted to do a comparison um to what the applicant is proposing to construct and I'm just going to hold this up here we'll call this C proposed house um and as you can see in my opinion it's ar ar architecturally consistent with the upgraded structure so that'll give a nice look in my opinion to the neighborhood to the neighbor Street um a nice new house on the corner like this is a nice display piece along kind of the main thorough Fair through the area so again I feel that further supports the positive criteria of of um I think it's item G um item I I'm sorry desirable visual environment um it gives a nice consistent look at least for the first few houses and as well as along the main street through the area so the applicant you have two examples on see this chair this is actually one example just different views one is kind of a front view and then a side view just to give a little bit more detail oh so it is the same house it is correct yes and that's the house that it's proposed to be constructed that something similar to that will be constructed as my understanding similar similar I don't know what that means similar means different well similar similar could mean different is it going to be that house or are we looking at something entirely different this is the house you're prop yeah okay then this is the house they're proposing I didn't want to speak for the applicant but yes this is the house they're proposing to construct okay all right so we cleared that up and the other house is essentially finished you say except for some details that is correct uh Mr gleener stated they're installing a driveway and I believe there's Landscaping to be completed as well understood sure just to go through I want to make sure understood so I I did watch the uh recording from the meeting July 11th I believe it was because I was not here okay and I did go through all the materials but I missed possibly is this house going to be facing Stokes or me this house will be facing Stokes um we actually submitted this is from this was I believe exhibit A1 from the last meeting this is our rendering this is our existing dwelling and this is the proposed dwelling that's where the driveway would front along uh Stokes a okay thank you yep unless anybody has any questions that that's all I had for this evening Mr gleer okay thank you thanks I just Mr chairman if I can just want for Mr AGA or a couple um absolutely Sam in terms of the the analysis uh where you have five lots that that are non-compliant yeah uh that have homes on them um out of that I I'll sort of say that that little neighborhood Bound by you know palasi hesport Lumberton and then the commercial site to the east how many homes are there in that area oh jeez um I'd have to look at a tax maps SC i i i the small area I looked at was probably about blocks if I can guess does maybe 20 to 30 houses per block sound reasonable maybe 10 to 15 on each side depending on how they were developed so 200 you multiply that by the seven or eight blocks you're around 200 homes yeah that makes sense there's a couple on the opposite side of main as well and hanne so around 200 makes sense to put it another way are most of the Lots developed in other words there there few if any vacant Lots I would agree with that yes there there's not a ton of vacancy around there off the top of my head I did not take an inventory of the vacant lots and the point I was getting to Mr chairman was that Mr agesta identified that this type of an undersized lot is you know there are several of these in the neighborhood and if if that was five out of 15 or five out of 20 that is considerable or it's considerably different than five out of 150 so so I think the board should at least evaluate that as as part of their variance um deliberation of whether or not having two additional um whether or not those undersized lots are really sort of part of the pattern of that neighborhood um and whether this will exacerbate that condition okay I think that was all I have all right thanks yep thanks okay so uh the only other issue was this issue that was brought up whether it was um three lots going to two or one lot going to two and Mr Kingsbury and I you know uh gave some case law I would I would suggest to the to the board that it really makes no difference whether it's one way or the other uh because the board has the uh the main issue here is whether we've met the positive and negative criteria for the property looked at as a whole so whether or not it was it I would consider it to be three lots or the board or Mr Kingsbury consider it one it really makes no difference it's our burden to to establish whether we've met the negative and positive criteria uh in order to get the uh the variance in order to get the variances necessary for subdivision and either we did it or we didn't and whether it's considered to be uh you know one whole lot or three separate Lots really makes no difference I don't know whether Mr Kingsbury agrees with me on that I think it's more of an academic discussion than anything else I guess it was important for us to you know research it and find out you know what the situation is but I don't think this board really needs to decide that one way or the other either you do need to decide whether we've met the positive and negative criteria for our application and uh whether or not the subdivision should be granted with the variances but again whether whether it's uh three or one I don't know that makes any difference I don't know if you disagree I only and I'll I'll defer to Bob in a second on the legal analysis I only raised it last time because the testimony during the hearing was we have three Lots now and we're reducing that down to two so I think that that that's why I raised the merger and you actually agreed with me last in July and said yeah these lots are merged and then I think after the hearing I I had it in my notes I'm not sure if I did or I didn't I'm not going to deny that I did but again I don't know that so regard depending where Bob goes on on that I just want that test that testimony should probably be uh stricken from the prior record and evaluated now um based on the negative but we have testimony saying you know we have three Lots now and we're going down to two well that's a little I guess it's technically true that there are three lots on the tax map now whether or not that's recognized as having been merged into one lot is another issue but again I don't think it matters I think that we have to establish the negative and criter negative and positive criteria in order to get the subdivision so I don't know that it matters one way or the other maybe you disagree with me Mr Kingsbury but I don't know that it matters I agree that it doesn't make a difference in terms of what you're being asked to do sure it would make a difference if he was trying to sell off one of the Lots right to someone else then we'd have a merger issue but what he's asking I don't think it makes a difference it's one lot or three yeah I mean it it it ended up being an interesting academic uh discussion between the lawyers but I don't spent a lot of time debating that I'm sorry we spent a lot of time debating that which we probably didn't need well I enjoyed it I don't know whether you did but again I don't think it matters that much I agree yeah all right can I ask a question sure because I'm not seeing it on there um have you met all the bulk requirements setbacks and everything since this is a the um applicant needs to know when they come to me for other things is that this is a corner property so it has two front yards okay so fencing is affected the whole nine yards um are these have met all the setbacks so on the new lot there is no new variances generated um on the existing lot the only variance that we're seeking is a pre-existing non-conforming and it's the rear setback I I'd have to look at the dimensions I want to say it's it's like 10 ft maybe 937 14.88 1488 that is correct y 15's required so you're a few inches short put that put that one up on the board so it's it's 20t is required and that is that will not change regardless so right here it's 1488 um and 20 is required 20t is re yeah we have 30t for both both of the Yards here where the house is placed the new proposed house so we are well within this the required setbacks okay I the only reason is I didn't see anything on there so I just want to make sure yep no problem sure is there going to be an issue with uh lot coverage when the driveway is put in for the old house so what they can do is they'll have to take a look at that when they pave the driveway and make sure it will be very very close um they may have to do a little bit more narrow of a driveway or taper it somewhat but they'll be sure that they conform with the requirements right it's 27% for everything correct yeah that's I just believe I believe it's Stone there now so anything can be modified when they pave it right okay all right any other any other professional questions there's no garage now sir on the new Hill Marty you don't have anything on this zero garage oh on the new house I'm sorry I apologize no no no on the existing I'm sorry on the new house yes there is it's going to be one Park corre yep okay so the driveway shouldn't be that well that wide there was but it looks like on the new image that if you look at the improvements on the front facade the exist no on the proposed on the right hand side no the of the other unit on the left are you talking about the rest on the existing home new house okay your house so one car garage on that corre the one car garage on the existing house has been eliminated correct correct yes all right and was that shown on the original plans so you'll need you'll just need to update those plans off my head I'm not sure the garage that garage I'm sorry go ahead just CU I got to ask is it 15 fo set back for that half but yet you made it 14.88 is there a reason for that uh this house was constructed I'm going to assume in the 50s um and it's actually a 20ft setback it and it's 14.88 so no new variance was created by the proposed subdivision there's quite a few in the area one of the properties I listed it's well over the front yard setback I mean it looks like it's about a foot and a half away from the road looking off at Aerials they're usually pretty close so I had I'm assuming rules weren't as strict inspection W wasn't as good back in the 50s I'm not sure you know how tight things were back then very perhaps they didn't have tape measures I'm pretty sure that in the R2 Zone the backyard setback is 15 because in the R1 Zone it's 20 at the rear I have on my zoning CH chart 20 I'll be happy to double check it well nonetheless you still need a variance correct okay all right are there any other questions by board it is 20 really I have here okay wow I'm getting old before I open it to the public any question it's 10 on the side though right yep yes 10 on the side yep from the board other questions I'll open it to the public and then we'll go back to the board the follow-ups if needed all right no questions from the board nobody okay um all right U public comment on this um if you have a comment would you come forward come on forward and come to the mic and give us your name and you'll be sworn sir raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you give Truth full truth nothing with truth so got yep your name please uh Ron Smith say it again Ron Smith okay and what is your address Mr Smith my address I live at 21 Engleside Avenue in hesport I own the property at 2 1103 Maine Avenue in hesport is that in the area where we're talking about yes sir that and I don't know whether you had a chance to look at that exhibit a not I uh to me the chart is going back 50 years ago I mean this is what what it was now it's everything is different everything's been rezoned re you know reapproved right what you Engles you're on side yes on street over but I own the property right next to this property or you you back into it you front on angle side but back into this property no 1103 Main Avenue is the property that I own which whats right to this property okay is that Lots 18 16 or I'm sorry 1601 16117 1701 or 18 uh I don't know what the lot numbers are why don't you um we have a copy of exhibit a that we can show to the witness any but it's it's a corner lot on with Frontage on Main and on angle side yes lot 18 yeah I think it's 18 on page two plus maybe some more yeah B 18 okay apparently on the lot 16 17 18 okay 17.1 as well I guess yes okay so so that's that is one lot although it shows I I know it shows it's four on this yeah you treat as like 125 by 125 right and you have one house on it one house on it yes and the garage okay I'm opposed to the idea because it's too close to my property it's too close to the other houses we we live in a develop I mean a community we don't live in a development where the houses are on top of one another um where does your house sit on that lot you give us an idea it would set right on on Main Street which front Rancher okay um I mean is it is it 25 ft off of the street I couldn't tell you how far off the street but it's that's the front of the house on angle or Main Street add is the front front's on Main okay sits back from the street on Main about how far would you say if the board members have our report there's an aerial on page two of three h [Applause] Mr Smith what is uh across the street from you there's another house across the street like looking out your front looking out the front window there would be another house which I think it's an AB andb house whatever on the other side of Maine on the other side of Maine and then there's other commercial properties there it's the red house that backs backs up to yours yeah okay I see it that front man all right anything else you want to add I just feel like you know being it's a community even if you put another house there they're not going to have any yard now the kids are going to be out playing on the street for a safety reason it's just everything is just too close I have okay thank you is there anyone else who uh wishes to say something I see no other hands up last chance okay okay close public meeting uh board members any questions you have off that uh last witness or any additional questions that you just thought of I I see there's a fence in the rendering is that are you planning proposing to install fence he intends to put offence in he intends to put offense in and it will comply with uh with whatever the ordinance is right cuz you're going to be limited to how far 6' High F will have to come back 30 ft you can do a 4ot high space picket fence 2 ft off the property line in the R2 Zone we're any any fence will comply with the ordinance all right do uh Paul we still have one or two people online yeah they dropped off yes okay all right any further thoughts from our professionals I just want to clarify and if the board is considering that offence is permitted in accordance with the municipal ordinances or if the board wants to specify that a fence should be or must be provided so I just think if as you deliberate to sort of clarify that point because I wasn't sure what the testimony was um in that regard the test well it's it's the location of the fence is unclear talked about a fence being installed not which lot or whether it's both lots and where the fence would be so maybe Mr gleer maybe you should have uh your client testify or you can represent well the I mean we can represent that uh any fence is subject to uh authorization uh and permission in accordance with the ordinance right do we need anything further than that I mean that's what any homeowner would have to do correct correct yeah yeah and I was asking more of it in in response to concerns of the neighbors or concerns that the board has is is the board if you consider granting the application are you allowing them to have offense or is the board actually requiring them to provide offense so I just think that's something as you deliberate whether it's just up to them at their discretion they may put a fence in or whether the board says if the board wants to require us to have a fence in accordance with the ordinance we have no problem with that either because we plan to put offence in so you know they want to make a requirement as part of the uh approval I have no problem with that guess I guess one of the questions that immediately comes to mind where where is this fence proposed you go we we have a a request to create two lots and maybe uh it would be helpful to look at the lot plans and well once they get If This Were to go through they're going to have to provide me with surveys updated surveys and at that point I will be approving according to the township ordinance the location of any 6 foot high 4T High according to that zone yeah I'm not I'm not sure that this Board needs to to address that would Mr Kingsbury you have any thoughts on that it's optional we've can to require it as a condition but we're not Corner yeah your call yeah I just wanted it to be clear because in resolution compliance I'm the one that has to review that so if the board was heading that direction then it should just be clear that you do want the fence or if you're indifferent about the fence then it's at the applicant's discretion I leave this in at the board's discretion if you want us if you want a fence and the board thinks that's important we agree to have a fence in accordance with the ordinance well gets back to my original question where is this fence going to go you know the board can't really make a judgment on that right well that's going to be based on the zoning officers yeah I think it's I think it's entirely premat personally I think it's entirely premature which is why talk about the fence right uh unless you've got something that's you you absolutely positively know you want to do okay well he said he wants to put up a fence and it's going to be between the there's going to be at least one between the two properties I think that is appropriate so you're going to have to deal with the zoning officer exactly which is right back where we started all right so we'll put the fence we'll put the fence aside for purposes of the resolution thank you board members any other questions on this one Mr Kingsbury um uh for the board's benefit how would you frame an affirmative resolution granting the requested asking for a subdivision to create two lots two buildable lots and they will both require lot area variances and Frontage variances and the existing house requires the backyard variance correct no it's an just an existing non-conforming condition okay the subdivision is Grant would be granted though with the existing nonconforming yes condition right okay so that that's the affirmative motion um that is recommended by Council so do I have a board member who wishes to advance that motion question there going be additional houses on both those La Tish there's G there's gonna The Proposal is to create two buildable Lots with a house on each okay so two houses one will be a new house the other one will be the rehabilitated old house so we still have the question of does a member wish to advance a motion to Grant the subdivision requested I don't hear any I don't hear anyone coming forward so let me I'll Advance I'll advance that motion so we can have a vote on it okay do I hear a second I'll second okay so we now have a motion you can vote yay votee it up or vote it down but it's on the table as proposed by Mr uh Kingsburg before we go any further can I just remind you that if this goes any further to please have in the um resolution that COA is required on this new house please if the board makes so noted if the board votes yes so so a yes vote is in favor of the subdivision as laid out no vote is to deny the subdivision request we have a roll call Mr McKay no Miss Costco yes Mrs Tori no Mr Bradley no Mrs Kelly no no mayor Gilmore no Mr draoi no Mr novita yes Mr Murphy no thank you folks have a good evening thank you all right Mr gleener thank you for your presentation [Music] all right the uh next matter is case b 2418 mbid of Delaware uh doing business as Randol senior Estates Council come on forward please identify yourself and uh tell us who you have with you certainly normally can everybody hear me okay can hear you very well great generally I'm not accused of being too quiet so that's good news um good evening I'm Kate coffee from day Pitney I'm here this evening on behalf of MB of Delaware LLC um the property that we are talking about is located at block 24 Lot 10 is 810 marn Highway um currently the Christian Faith Assembly Church is located on the property and they are the owners of the property and we have several of their congregation members with us this evening as well um we are seeking amended preliminary and final site plan approval as well as D use variances and Associated C bulk variances to remind everybody about the proposal what the applicant is proposing is to construct a thre story 70 unit affordable senior building that consists of 63 one-bedroom units and seven two-bedroom units the church is proposed to remain on the property in addition to the Residential Building as part of the original before you proceed sure I a proced addition this involves a use r so we have to M I heard Mr Kings I'm sorry I'm having a hard time hearing you you have a seven member board ah to vote on this it's a use VAR understood because it was originally a used varant so any change to the prior approval is still a use that's correct still have a forum I'm sorry no that's all right just couldn't hear you so uh we have two members of the board that will step aside because of the use variance issue but I want the clerk to announce that we still have Forum to operate yes we do there seven thank you Mr chairman all right um we cut you off when you were giving us a little it would it would be helpful to the board if you gave us as you were doing a little history of this some of us will remember it and previously maybe new brothers we not I'm happy to so as I was saying the The Proposal here is for the church to remain on the property and the applicant is proposing a single Residential Building to consist of 70 units all oford aable all senior the breakdown is 63 one-bedroom units 7 two-bedroom units when the application was originally heard before the board in 2021 as I said use variances were granted the existing church is a non-conforming use and the proposed multifam affordable senior building is also not permitted in the zone and in addition to that we have multiple uses on the property or that are proposed and that were previously approved as part of the original application being the church and the proposed residential building so those trigger D variances um which were granted as part of the original application but as your chairman and your attorney stated continue to be applicable to the application today I should add that the 70 unit building is part of the municipality's affordable housing plan and its settlement with the court um as part of its affordable housing obligation in addition to the D variances that were pre previously granted there are a number of C variances or bulk variances that are associated with the application many of which were previously granted but some of which have been modified as part of the amended application I'll go through those quickly just so folks are kind of oriented to what relief was previously granted and what relief we're seeking and then I'll have our professionals come up and really talk about it since they're the ones who know so the building size has modestly increased as opposed to what was previously approved it has gone from 72,000 ft to 72,9 198 Square ft the impervious coverage um the maximum permitted in the zone is 25% today it's already non-conforming at 37.4% as part of the originally approved application um we were approved to be at 49.8% the applicant has now slightly reduced that in prvious coverage and is now proposing 47.1% impervious coverage okay and that was that accomplished by by deleting parking area how was that accomplished so I'll let our engineer explain how but my understanding is that it was by by sort of tightening up the proposed impervious coverage in accordance with our storm water management planning okay the height of the building the maximum permitted height is 35 ft the church is currently at 29.8 FT the original application for the residential building was approved at 382 in the applicant is proposing to reduce that height to 36 feet 8 in so a variance is still required it doesn't doesn't rise to the level of a d variance but we still need a variance for the height but it's slightly lower than what had previously been proposed sounds like there was some redesign to the roof that's right there was some redesign to the building is well in you'll hear from our architect and others there's some other redesigning for the building to comply with for example updated um access ability requirements and so on so there's a little bit of a change to the to the building plans um the the parking for the project and this is consistent with what was originally proposed there's a shared parking between the church and the residential use you'll hear testimony from our experts that we have a good symbiotic relationship with the church which of course their peak time is Sunday mornings um and their particular kind of Peaks are when there's special events happening at the church either holiday or unfortunately funerals or things like that um however we do propose to share parking with them there are 158 spaces that would be required under your code for the church there are 171 spaces that exist today the applicant is proposing I should say as part of the original approval and this has not changed is there are overflow spaces that are proposed on the property um that that put you up to the 158 number which includes spaces um that are proposed to be overflow that can be accommodated on the existing basketball court and also some spaces on the grass courts 27 spaces on the basketball 11 spaces on the grass this is all part of the original approval and then the applicants proposing 48 spaces to be associated with the apartment building our professionals have testimony and Exhibits to explain this further but I wanted to orient everybody a little bit in terms of what we're talking about other variances that were previously granted um that were associated with the original application and continue to be in place there's a variance associated with the building length um The ah1 Zone has a 200t building length requirement and the original building exceeded that and we continue to exceed that today um in terms of who we have with us this evening I have Mark shaffell of uh paus sulaski and starter PS NES he's the project engineer he's going to orient everybody further to the property in the area around the property and also walk you through the proposed plan and particularly what has changed from the original application to today we have Mary johanneson of thriven design she's our project architect she's going to review the architectural features of the project as well as the changes to the building footprint that the chairman was just asking about um and we have John mcdna with us of John mcdna Associates he's the project planner um as I said most of the relief is not really new relief it's relief that was previously granted by this board although there have been some modifications to some of the bulk standards in particular he'll be discussing that variance relief that we're seeking and also providing the proofs in support of our request for it um we have received uh review memoranda from your professionals including a memoranda from your planner dated August 28th and from your engineer dated August 30th um if it's acceptable Mr chairman I would ask that Mr Shelli come and join me and be sworn please I'm sorry say that again I'd like to have our engineer join me up front and be sworn please yes in fact if you have if you have um multiple witnesses as you you appear appear to have if they all want to come up we'll do one start all in that way if we happen to bounce around from witness to witness everybody's swarming sure that would be perfect I also have a representative of the applicant who we don't expect to have testifying but in case she has to jump up and talk about something we might as well swear her now too so we don't have to retread later absolutely great and the applicant is uh an LLC by the name by with the name mvid of Delaware correct and you use Randolph senior Estates as a sort of a trade name or DBA or DBA ingr which is a a large development firm with offices in okay so let me swear all of you and raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony tonight will be the truth whole truth nothing the truth so forg yes thank you okay um so miss coffee who's first uh up first is our project engineer um so I'd ask you to please introduce yourself and tell the board in the public about your experienceing credentials good evening my name is Mark saell um I'm a civil engineer licensed in the state of New Jersey uh employed by PSNS uh out of our Wall Township office I have have 19 years experience in the field of civil engineering um over 13 as a licensed engineer and my um license is active and up to date Mr Mr Co I don't think you ever appeared before this board before maybe you did back I did yes on the original was was correct yes in 2021 and you've appeared before other boards like this throughout the state of New Jersey yes I have zoning and planning all right um we'll find Mr uh Mr saell qualified to test far thank you chairman okay Mr saell can you please Orient board to the property and its location sure thank you uh so we are located on MAR Highway which is a County Road uh and so we have a we have an aerial correct uh photo uh that's been maybe colorized maybe not I don't know um we'll call that exhibit uh what for today a A1 A1 fine so this is an existing condition AAL overlay today at 944 show the conditions overlay on a fairly current Nea aial uh we updated this from the previous presentation because the Jon property was developed in the time that since we were here last although it may be obvious point out M Highway point out the railroad track if it's shown Mar highway is on the left side of the page which is north of the site and and the cotton rail Rail lines on the right side on the south uh we have St Paul's Church on the bottom of the page and then the new Warehouse that was constructed um on the top of the page the existing church building is here and the top left corner of of the page uh and this dark area shown is the existing parking facility which contains 17 more spaces that parking facility is mostly grass field it's all asphalt it's all asphalt not the back the back of it not grass uh behind it this area back here is is vated and okay these two um objects here or solar panels those are at least agreement with the church to have solar panels which will remain on the property so we're proposing to develop in this this rear corner of the site working around the solar panel making some modifications to the par to adjust the configurations we're adding some parking and also a fire access around the building I'll show you on the next exib um parking lot will be M and pav in some areas some areas will be reconstructed we putting new Utilities in and the entire parking be SE and rest FR you know this is the existing um basketball court on the property which will talk about other where's the property line can you can you hard to see a yellow line right you put a superimpose the yellow line yes okay that lower property line just show that again by the basketball court okay thank you sure the Acres on the site is 6.4 Acres uh the proper line does extend out to the center line of the road there's a RightWay line and there's also Perpetual EAS it right away deicated to the county that extends further into the property um once you take out those areas L closer to 6 Acres now talk about some moreal County that could possibly okay yeah say why don't you tell us a little bit more about what's being proposed and I think we have a new exhibit so we Mark that A2 board if board members have questions with these uh big big sheets raise your hand so we get them covered while we have them up and just can you give us the title of the sheet just for the sake of the record this is a proposed s plan rendering also dated in 24 shows that same aial background map our R you can see the exting still shown on here as well as the proposed 70 un building in the corner um one of the major changes we made since the previous approval was uh changes to the stor water management system on the property so the prior approval was before the the latest rule update or deep up the the storm motor quantities that we had designed to so we had to enlarge our basins to handle that increase the rain enlarge the one in the rear which takes the majority of the flow from the property um we had to add another Basin beneath the fire Access Lane that's considered surface did you would you say that again but you're adding it beneath the fire Access Lane yes so the um you'll explain how you do that sure the U the fire Access Lane which goes around the building we work through that with the Fire official previous approval it's a grass paper system stabilized grass paper so it's a geosynthetic plastic that helps to support a load up to 50,000 pounds um and below that we have stone storage so it's considered a for paining system the by the surface before it gets into below and then there's out control structure this SC sort of like like an oldfashioned drywall correct okay so allows water to per into the ground it is a very large storm event andl off that a red rate compared to off site does it um the majority of the rear area gets discharged to towards thejason property which there's a stream that through here uh it's an unmatch stream we did perform analysis on that stream uh use pet to determine the area associated with that and we will have to make an application to D still to get approval for some of the impacts that we have on it um the FL has are very minimal within our property um the stream pit pretty well toward nor Highway um so the majority of our of our run off goes there go today as well that that uh that run stream as you call it dry most of the time I take it yes and it it courses through the St Paul's property yes it goes under the parking lot ped under that it opens up again L Highway and okay but it's it was unmapped we did find it had over 50 ACR fall to it so it's considered stre vles analysis on that make sure it didn't have a negative impact on our property Vice ver also some back in that area we had previously so this transition area buffer is partially on our property our fire Access Lane does go through that buffer as well as some of our faing related improvements for the out but we would be um aaging that on site which is [Applause] permitted we have to get approval from The Preserve additional land on the properties and balance out the amount that we disturbing how deep is your um retention Basin they're fairly shallow because they are mostly dependent on infiltration groundw is not all that to keep the 3 to 4T 3 to 4T okay so this one is above ground Bas the forest ping in surface uh we had two small buy retention basins that would take SL from the basketball court we will be using the basketball basketball court as overflow parking be has a need for additional parking be able to utilize that with direction of of sta traffic would be a St parking situation I think we had previous bar that we did that's consider vehicle because of that we added management are the basketball courts they're currently used as as overflow parking or not no all right so and is this plan going to do anything to the pavement in the basketball court to accept cars uh drove by the side today I think basketball courts probably need up some updating to the payment so we can make sure that it's suitable for for very very occasional I would say yeah well occasional or not I mean fill it with cars and it's going to have an impact particularly on a warm day so is discussion with the Fire official that any form of chain across that at the so it doesn't become a a an everyday parking area no I'm relating it to one of our other projects that just asking have a chain fence on the end of Access Road Mark where's Mark where's the access into the basin or I mean not into the Basin into the uh overflow basketball court be this so you actually have to drive over the stabilized grass right 100 feet make a left you know or 70 feet make a left and then Loop in and then how will people get out of there have to organized and sort of valy kind of back all right yeah I guess the question is control to keep people out of there six days a week that you don't need the Overflow yeah we could definitely add another right that might be advisable and update and upgrade the PVE to accept cars yes sidewalk is it obviously I don't know that it's shown on this particular map that's still Incorporated in the front along the okay so we actually did get a few comments from the the county recently um I think it was discussed that our previous hearing that may be 5T wide on our submission now we had we had some some turning areas within 200 ft of each other which is accepted by AA but seems like the county since you're on the S it it um is there a bus stop there's not there's two stops within a quar mile though Avenue and right out sidewalk goes sidewalk goes to the corner now and actually around the corner too yeah I don't know where access to that we had out to to Transit about adding a bus stop that was part of the reason we did see those two other existing stops right that's why we didn't address that com that you you did you did inquire about a bus stop with NJ Transit we have not you have not so I sorry I'll clarify I did speak this morning Elizabeth I did speak this morning to Bruce Morgan who was the previous developer on the project and he had indicated that back in 2001 when this was first discussed that he did reach out to NJ Transit NJ Transit felt it was premature to have that discussion that they wanted us to reach this stage of development to reach more final plan approvals and then they would be willing to reopen the discussion disc with us and we in turn would be yes willing to re the discussion with them but yes currently there is a stop just down the road and we will have on-site van transportation that is for solely for residents of the project that will be funded and run by the project that will offer um transportation to a few local stops that we had envisioned the grocery store to the virtual Health to the post office and place such as that that's a daily service it would be currently contemplated to be once or twice a week service okay before we get too far a field when we were first when I was first getting going the chairman had asked about the reduction in impervious surface coverage between the original application and the new application and since we're we were talking storm water I thought we should at least address that while we're talking I think the that change is really the ruction space otherwise any significant changes and one thing to mention is that the county does also have a um requirement for ultimate right away which isther to right more Fe property if that needs to be a dedication at the county that would lot are actually back up to 49.8 less than 48.5 reduction area okay be and that would also impact the set back on the existing building uh but it would still be more than 35t I may be jumping ahead on your outline but could could you could you address uh issues of um of signage and uh lighting sure sign we have a a double sided Monument sign rot 90° from the previous approval so has better visibility Direction when you say you rotate 90 degrees that means it's perpendicular to Mar Highway correct and that would have LED lighting and that announces the apartments or the church or both that is the apartments the apartments only the church has an existing sign which is further yeah it's further down yeah okay the sign is proposed to read Randolph senior apartment correct Apartments corrector senior State oh I can't even read my own writing yes so the letters will not be illuminated there will just be an LED external illumination Source washing the wall yes in in your packet did you have a an example of the sign or no there was a this um it's a typical sign for the devel properties it's very mutual it's designed to and just to be clear Mr chairman there was a signed detail in the submitted plans but this is a colorized version that would give you um uh your your submitted plans that came to us are so small that I had and other board members seeing the details they had a hard time reading them hopefully the this will be easier to see um and I suppose we should probably mark one of these as exhibit A3 as well this is an illustration of another location I take correct it's so it's it's the signage that's used throughout um the applicant but it's their it's their Signature Sign correct okay and and just while Mr spell is passing them out um I'll say that the well I'll let I'll let him talk about the colors you want to hear it from him rather than me it says right so this is an example of an existing sign ma'am but it would be this the same dimensions as what's shown there but we wanted to show you what it looks like in real life um so Mr spell can you talk about the the colors that are on the exhibit that you just shared with folks are those consistent with what's being proposed yes so the the base will be a brick to match the building uh there's brick on the side the same color the top of the sign is a very mutual I gu and that bricks the same as the brick on the building it will yeah so this is going to say uh what is it going to say atates at at hesport at hesport States okay not this one has out Whiting I just correct so that's an example of a currently existing sign on one of our properties there was a detail that was shown in the plan which apologies yeah well that's all right whiting's in the middle of nowhere so if it if you didn't have a sign that said where you were you wouldn't know where you were but you'll know you're in hands for of what exity of theity right and this and to answer our planner's question get back to that that there's going to be a wash of light over this as opposed to an internally lit some or did I misunderstand yeah theil has it shows a it's w wash it's mounted to the to the top like the concrete slab on top of the brick and directed at the the tal sign okay both sides okay Scot that going that you will approve before yeah the details will need whatever outstanding issues can get worked out through resolution compliance thank you and I think the chairman also in addition to asking about lighting y lighting is where we're headed next y yeah we did make some adjustments to the lighting for the comments received previously so we were mostly focused around the senior building but we did have like conference presented throughout the the parking lot previously had lower areas we at5 which under is pretty typical but the recommendation was to get Clos one actually to get to one minimum so we made some adjustments to the light that we able to to get to that point uh we have outside shield on the lights that are close proximity to the building so there'll be no spill into the the rest of Windows and there also most at the the property umal resal also still IDE all LED fixtures would be and also should be and there there was um some confusion between the engineering plans and the architectural plans with respect to the height of the wall mounted lights those will be at 12' 6 in correct correct arital add at 12 are of the building as well any lighting they were only on the the fronts uh there was also com added on on the f space which do so we had it at 12 ft so how about the patio area in the back have L uh currently it's not we're going to add right now liting can I well unless you you have some more new you're I was ask you to just touch on trash and recycling there was a question in one of the memoranda we received about the pads that are shown um can you explain that please yes we have a single pad located at the corner of the parking up uh it's a reinforced conrete pad it has followers for Perfection that would only for pick up days and they would roll out a dumpster from the Tractor Room so the restored was in the building primarily out and then a privateer pick it up as roll out they roll it out into the aisle have pick upy access that dire as but any other than trash day it's inside how do the how do the residents um dispose of their trash and their recyclables on yeah our our architect will talk through that process for you she's coming feel like it makes things a little more sanitary we don't have waste outside and and also that way our seniors don't have to be carrying their trash outside to dispose of it it's a nice accommodation for them as well right refresh my recollection but um I guess well I you gave me the number of units um mhm 63 one bedroom 7 two bedrooms if my count is correct so that's 7 so uh does that imply well what does that imply in terms of the number of people 140 uh or just total people in the in the complex if it's if it's rented out yeah it would be in that range we typically find that for our senior building the majority of the population of the residents are in their 70s they are downsizing from either renting or owning a home and they desire to have and of owning a home I can't um many are most all are uh single or couples would okay so was this inside this building was and I don't recall exactly right was there going to be some type of office or something where there was like a medical where besides the rental office was there any kind of facility that was I'm going to let our our architect touch on that if that's okay with you so stay tuned now we've got two for her um but she's coming um let's see Mr spelli can you touch on Landscaping please sure I think we have pretty comprehensive Landscaping plan um you have a mixture of primarily native species so really Dr drop tolerant Do Well locations one of the com letters irrigation at the property do not anticipate the irrigation planting um just need to be careful during the first couple years as the PLS get established but beyond that they're pretty self-sufficient the species that we selected there's a mixture of um CH trees evergreen trees for buffering and ornamental trees the site and there are Landscaping provided around the building um mostly the font found foundation planting with smaller shrs and around the area we have some shrs some ornal trees some trees between the solar Ps in the parking to kind of bum those from side we have three trees in the rear that I think it suggest change species relocate those po block some of the solar field and then we have some and we'll comply with that suggestion correct sure yeah just to keep us on the same page and to save potentially some time we had a number of just minor technical issues in our report will you agree to address yeah we'll comply with all of them yeah uh and one of the items that was in your report Mr Taylor was compliance with the tree replacement ordinance and we'll comply with that as well I don't know whether that counted as one of the minor technicals but I mean have you given any thought to at least limited irrigation I mean it does in a complex this big it does keep everything yeah I think the only really be helpful probably the found we just do a simple irriation system that main otherwi pretty good soils out here but even that grass in the front Tom's point is we just went through summertime I'm sure everybody's lawn look beautiful see it's sarcastic if that's kept water it appears from the street much more attractive than a brown one which becomes dirt you know just you know your Bas will probably be the only thing read yeah I think the applicant would be willing to put that in so maybe what what we can do and I think we talked a little if if a drip line is run through the foundation is really kind of important and very um if you're going to put a controller in running a drip line through there that area between the parking lot and the building bakes so I think that's good and then to sort of get to your point um running one line of or or two runs of irrigation I I want to try to make sure that we Define that area that the board and everybody's thinking so we're we're all sort of clear on that obviously so Mark can you point out the area that you that we would be putting in the system that you're thinking of Sounds thisa here really from the so this is It's the just to for the sake of the record um it's the lawn area that's in front of really the existing church building going out towards M right so the I guess the northern from the area between the parking lot itself and Mar highway right on the on the other side of the entrance on the Northern side of the entrance well I think on I I think we're talking about both sides of the entrance but not including the detention Basin okay obviously it's the front it's tell say what it is it's the front yard front lawn going okay parking from right on the street side of the parking lot accepting out the Basin yeah I really think that you know it's it's going to make your place look much better have the plants will uh plants will do better everybody will be happier and and it's not a huge expense you don't want to have a brown behind that that looks good we agree y okay I got to say too I would love it to say at the HP that's just my opinion I'm proud of my town I'm sorry it's Nam for the former pastor of the church okay EST well I think the comment was Randolph senior estat and at hesport or hesport New Jersey or some way that we can IND sign spending a lot of time on this thing we'll work it in you go back to the watering if you use more native PLS you use less water and that was recommended by members of our environmental commission at our last so um I would I would encourage you to use native PL to this area I think that you mentioned that you had swapped out some ornamentals for native plants yeah primarily native and you're going to do primarily native so you'll adjust the water flow to the needs of the native plant so you're you're not using any ornamental plants then is that we do have some ornamentals we have Foundation plantings things like that so the ornamentals we have are well we shouldn't let's let's not use ornamental or native CU some natives are ornamentals so we should either say native versus non-native the orament yeah so Tish they they have from their last submission changed out a number of these and I think the applicant is agreeing to even take that a few steps further to maximize the the use of natives out here but some of their ornamental trees they have uh they have Birch Red Bud hornbeam that are ornamental trees um and natives so they actually fit both as I told I told the group I was putting you in charge and you always did a very good job you're setting me up for failure okay all right what else we doing um can we Circle back on one thing because my notes uh Mr chairman I'm sorry to interrupt on on the bus stop um I had notes from the preliminary hearing that Mr Morgan said that the applicant will request the bus stop from NJ Transit yes so I wasn't quite sure how we sort of resolve that as part of this is that sort of carried through is one going to be requested think it would have to be if if we were to be approved um I think it would be a a a condition of um the resolution that would require the applicant to make a fresh request now that we have an approval and hopefully that that point NJ do would feel like it's a timely request at last now that we've said we here we are we have final site plan approval and we'd certainly be willing to do that and it's a request that comes from the township as well not just yeah and we we I think we would so if it's an if if the condition is that we can only ask you to request it but we do yep and and it's a benefit to the community as well so be happy to ask for it right mhm when we talk about a bus stop you're not probably familiar with it but just down the road by windsinger there's a there's a bus stop by the Catholic Church my you're probably not even understanding what I'm talking about but but there is a formal bus stop it's like a Philly type bus stop you know glass y enclosed two sides or three sides something like that is that what uh you would be you would be seeking for this area or something not quite as fancy well I I think It ultimately we we'll take what what they give us um but if we can have it that we would be happy to have that if they don't want sign that says that you know the 29 must stops yearh yeah so I I think if we can if if they'll give us something that fancy we're we would love it if they say you already have a fancy bests stop in close proximity then we we'll we'll take what they permit us to have because we do agree that having the bus stop is a benefit if we can get it okay so but you'll ask for the fancy version we'll ask for the fancy version thank and I don't know if it'll help if you you know coordinate with the owners of the warehouse they're going to need a bus stop for to partner with them and see if they you know kind of two against one kind of deal might help out maybe you can get them to donate a fancy bus stop maybe um saying that was off the Record yeah I don't know who said that um a good idea nonetheless um so yes we we will continue to pursue a fancy stop and see if they will approve it and we'll represent that it's something that the township very much wants and we'll try to partner with our neighbors to see if maybe we can uh kill two birds with one stone so to speak speaking of the bus stop I was going to ask Mr spelli to next just remind everybody of the overall circulation um on the site just so everyone remembers how that works I know we touched a little bit on the Overflow parking lot but just to give everyone a refresher yeah sure so we currently there's a single entrance to the property um based on rsis requirements anytime you have over 100 spots uh residential use then either have to have a secondary access point or you can split your driveway and have a median at the entrance um based on the SI sh a lot here we decided to do a split sideway so we have a single Lane in and left turn right turn lane for better traffic flow making uh as you come in the site get two-way access up this here at the corner of the building and then it turns into one way for just this first row of parking uh Which is closest to the senior building everything else is two-way flow um part of the reason for making this one way we do have a drop off area so like a loading zone for drop off to the residents right next to the main entrance uh which is appropriate for the patient Community we have a stalls located in close proximity to the main entrance um and we also added electrical vehicle charging stations as required by the the New Jersey Law uh so we needed 15% of the the parking stalls dedicated for the residential use to be which equated to eight spaces which we provided on have spes two spaces here one a SP required 5% of the total and remain will be along this row here um three of those have to be installed and operational at the time of Co and the remaining are over the six-year period um but they would have to all be prewired and and made ready to to be insted it all be class two Chargers as required um we also have one a charger for the church one charger is based on new spaces that are added to the church which we have overflow parking and we have less 50 spes so only one chared and that inst parking stalls are all being restriped they're all typical sizes for the most part 9 by8 UM existing parking lot is shap is emitting generally the same in the church areas um and then we have additional Ava parking for the church there's two in this corner and then sixes all the Ada or all the sidewalks on site are a compant providing access the main entrance of the building the amen Courtyard space and all thees and even so the the number of units the number of bedrooms has not changed since the original application um and thus the traffic being generated from the proposed Residential Building hasn't really changed but we did submit an updated traffic report that concluded that the traffic still works um within the community correct yeah report was submitted by by the traffic engineer no change the level of service they deter the level B or C which is towards the better end of of level service conditions and 's they noted that there's good consistency with the senior type of use in the traffic flow during the early morning and early afternoon hours makes it easier look at the traffic FL through the yeah I question popped in my head when you say senior I I never know what the age what is the age limit and over 55 and over 55 and over we do find that the vast majority of our late all right and just for clarification the age restriction deed restriction that is indefinite that runs in perpetuity with the site forever 45 years it runs no the age the age restriction the age restriction yes so that will be this will be age restricted apartments imp perpetuity um the the affordability restrictions 45 years okay for the tax right so I just wanted the board to know that this the day will come when this the affordability component expires um but it will always be age restricted right right cost of living will be different 45 years from now will be my only other suggestion this goes back to the the comment about a third of the Chargers have to be done at Co a third in three years and a third in six years with some of the other um hmfa funded projects it's hard to get money in the future so it may do them all at once up front all right yeah agree I just wanted to suggest yeah yeah you're wir everything so it's yeah enough plus no one remembers oh in 3 years we got to come back yeah okay difficult yeah all right so do we need to make that condition or or just you're just agreeing to do it I think they're going to comply with the law but I think they're just they're going to do it faster than required which I just wanted to suggest it yeah okay Mr chairman if it's acceptable I thought maybe we would touch on the memoranda that we received from your professionals yeah if you can just go through that and I mean if if we're uh if we're uh basically accepting everything say that except for whatever the couple that you might have a question about yeah I'm going to I'm just going to start with the memoranda we received from Richard Delo Association of Engineers since we have our engineer it's dated August 30th um I'm just going to kind of take it from the top um so I agree I think we've covered the the sections that asked for testimony on certain items um there were we will comply with comments 79 10 11 and 12 and com just for the record 2 3 4 5 6 and eight were all requests for Testimony which I we think we've covered and then 79 10 11 and 12 this is under the site plan section we will comply with in the grading drainage and utility plan section um which yeah which is common 13 through 24 will comply with all of the comments there um sorry then um we'll comply with the drainage calculations uh comments when we receive them um so now I'm up to construction details which is comments 26 through 32 we'll comply with all of those I'm sorry you guys trying to be well careful um and then uh in the general comments section we will comply with comments 33 34 35 36 and 38 um and then there was a comment in 37 that the applicant should submit certification that all taxes on the property um have been paid we did submit something as part of our application the church is currently tax exempt um but we did submit something nonetheless as part of the application and of course we can demonstrate that further as we get go through the resolution compliance process that's our Engineers memo um and then there were some items that we had received in Miss Mr Taylor's memo that pertain to engineering if I may touch on those as well yes please okay thank you just let me get organized okay hang on so in this memo that we received which is from Taylor Design Group dated August 28th okay so I'm going to I'll kind of take it from the top I'm in um section c which is the beginning yeah uh section e General comments um so number one was a request to testimony which we've provided um number two our architect is going to touch on so sit tight on number two but but those details will be provided on the plan yes all right yes they will be provided on the plan as well um so I guess you can call that a will comply um then uh three we covered in testimony four Mr you wanted to touch on yep so we go ahead that's referring to theot sidewalk that we had from the corner of the building here to Highway which is it's 4T wide we do have a grass strip between the parkings here and the sidewalk I think Mr teror suggested either moving the uh sidewalk closer to the parking and wiing it 6f or adding parking bumpers um I would not want to make a 60 just a limit coverage we're pretty maxed out on our our management moving it closer one thing I've also done on other properties is put a gravel strip guess as water or if we could leave it 2T off smaller grass my the one concern is that existing light pole in 4A that light pole is kind of in the middle of the Walk So shifting it moving it widening it as long as if the board has a strong preference you can let us know otherwise we can just sort of work that out as a condition of approval it will definitely address work it out we'll work it out got it okay I'm moving on number five we will comply um number six uh we'll provide um shrub plantings to limit the vehicular movement um across the detention Basin um seven we already covered in testimony eight we covered in testimony um nine I'm going to have our architect cover in terms of the accessibility comments there so we'll come back to it um same same with 10 she and we don't necessarily have to get into testimony on nine the issues that is you guys will provide the FF so we can ensure accessibility certainly all right yeah um and and it will be accessible the bo doesn't need to hear well this will be yeah not to let the cat out of the bag but it will be accessible and we will certainly provide that information to you um 10 our architect will will will touch on but there there will be re-entry um so it will be accessible um okay then y that's where I was going Mr selli so number 11 is asking about whether there's going to be any disturbance within the Conrail right of way can you touch on that please so there's no intention to do anys in the right way there are trees that are very close to that line um potential we may impact them with our grading activity for the fa that need rep of those there's an area where you're your tree protection fencing and your disturbance all right all right so we're following thee line that's fine all right because I was going to say like it didn't seem logical and having to ask and deal with them no that's a okay okay um 12 we will comply uh 13 we touched on already in testimony the um Wall height is going to be the 12 fo6 to address the discrepancy um 14 uh we will comply the height is the 368 um 15 we will comply um so 16 was on bike racks I think we haven't touched on that yet but we will relocate them right they'll comply okay um 17 we will comply 18 we touched on that in testimony already regarding the trash pads um oh I well I suppose we should ask that's what I thought I me so the the comment 18 says the plan appears to propose trash receptacles they should be labeled in a detail should be provided so I'm not sure if that was with regard to the pad areas where the trash is getting wheeled out that's what I thought it meant oh I'm sorry on 19 18 oh 18 sorry I already jumped along um on saw yeah let me double check with the ele on that we'll we'll yeah cuz your trash receptacles you don't have any they're all right they're going to be inside inside and they're wheeled out under the pad right all right so let's let's strike let's strike 18 okay um 19 we will comply um let's see uh 20 we will um comply well let's let's talk a little bit so 20 the comment was we might want to consider connecting the front patio to the sidewalk to limit foot traffic through the planting bed and can you just touch on the we didn't connect it we had a bup between the parking and the area really pretty limited privacy without that okay and then direct access right from the main entrance the main thing I think we want to do then is there are a couple little gaps in that hedge so I I think no because if you put a stepping stone then people are just going to cut through the Hedge so I would either tighten the Hedge up so it literally is solid because otherwise somebody's going to try to step through and then it can be a tripping Hazard so um I don't think it needs to be there let's just if if we want to keep that private yeah so we'll tighten up planting there um 21 has sub parts a through G we will complete with all of them um I think we touched on everything in lighting and Landscaping cool thank you and our architect will touch on building designs so we're through uh your memo Mr Taylor but Mr chairman we're happy um for engineer to answer any other questions that the board may have or it's professional well why would why we have Mr spelli up the board members have any questions directed at his topics hearing none we'll move on okay um next I have M Miss johanneson joining me she's the project architect share with you if you want okay so miss johanneson you've already been sworn but could you please introduce yourself to the board and the public and tell them about your experience in credentials good evening uh my name is Mary johanneson I'm a principal with thriven design our offices are located at 756 Haden Avenue Collingswood New Jersey I am a licensed architect in good standing in the state of New Jersey and I am the design architect for the uh preliminary through today so um I was involved with the original design and I am aware of any changes that I can talk to talk this evening about um I'd ask that um Miss johanis be accepted as an expert in our accepted thank you okay now that you're official can you please walk us through um the remind everybody as to the buildings that the building that is being proposed and also um point out the changes that the applicant is currently proposing please certainly up to A4 A4 is arit sheet A6 renderings for rior States dated 94 2024 this is an updated color rendering of the proposed building the lower rendering shows the entire building as viewed from the parking lot and in upper right corner the rendering is just a bit zoomed in on the entrance because it's a larger building we wanted to show a little bit more detail here and in the upper corner is color pal that calls out the materials used on the exterior of the building along theor there have been no changes to the building exterior materials or colors so we have a charcoal grp with light gray siding white siding a redish brick and the Gable Bays along the front have the ACC deep ocean color which is like a dark Navy dark gray color the building sign will have the the base made out of the same red brick material the background will be comp complimentary to the light gray and then the darker letters will provide the contrast so the same sign will be designed to compatible with the building design on the exterior of the building it was noted that the building height has changed at the preliminary we round it up a little bit to make sure that we had adequate height and as this building has now been designed we're going through construction drawings the structural engineer right size all the floor and roof Tresses that's why it came down just a little bit but it has the same type of design where it's essentially a flat roof but around the front edges it has a slope Ro mechanical equipment that is on the roof will be concealed by the sloke roof there was a question I think or comment related to the mechanical equipment um not all of it will be on the roof there are approximately 19 small condensing units that will be on the back of the wings so none of them will be visible from the front of the building and that's a requirement based upon some changes to the technology in the refriger limits how far the refrigerant lines can go so the apartments on the first floor and the common areas will have their mechanical equipment which are about the size of a small suitcase at gr behind the building the other change that you'll notice on the elevation um is the balconies uh the original design some of the units I would guess approximately % had a very small balcony so from 2021 when we originally designed the building to today the New Jersey New Jersey has adopted new building codes those have adopted new accessibility codes and when we updated all the unit designs in common areas the building grew a little bit and we could not accommodate the accessibility to those small balconies as we could have the earlier buing so what we did is we removed them and we made a larger community room on the first floor for all residents and we took two smaller patios at the back and combined them into one so we have a little bit more building square footage which was part of the uh one of the earlier comments made um we still have two patios we have a large one off the community room that residents can go from the community room out and then come back in that is where we will be adding some exterior lighting as was previously testified we also have a small patio in the front you know I met a lot of seniors like to sit out front and watch the comings and going um both patios will be scored concrete um and they will both have Furnishing so here you see some small like Cafe tables and chairs with umbrellas that will be on the front patio as well as the rear patio so they will be f activities when you say scored concrete is that like a pattern that's that's pressed in yes not pressed in but just cut into um maybe like a diamond pattern okay there was a question earlier about interior spaces so we have a community room and an exercise room for the residents you do have a management leing s we have two other spaces that will help support the residence as they AG um um with Supportive Services office so an office dedicated to social worker to come in as well as a wellness office I think that's what you maybe were commenting on where um visiting nurse or physician can come for wellness checks for um nutritional education for helping uh administer flu shots and things like that so there will be some services that can come to the residents GR in in their building the question came about trash thank you so knowing that these are you know seniors um we want to make Trash easy and clean um so there's a compactor on the first floor and there's a trash shoot that connects the third to second to first floor so residents can walk down the hall open the door to the trash room put their trash and shootting it goes down recyclables will also be collected in that room and man will then bring them down they will be stored in the building until pickup day um pickups will be scheduled the containers will be rolled out emptied and then rolled back in so there will be no containers on site um at any other time except are you ready me to interrupt your train of thought okay um I was just going to since we're talking I was just going to touch on this last couple items that we had reserved from um the planner's report for you so one was regarding whether there's going to be re-entry from to the building from the rear patio can you talk about how that would work that is correct residents will have access out and then back into the building from the Pao okay thank you how's the um how's the the the key card control the security control I take it you don't use Keys anymore often it's a fob type system yeah it's a key fob system that we um and there will be someone there's going to be full-time maintenance and management staff 40 hours a week who will be at the front and all their own it gets them in their individual unit and it gets them in the common doors how was the mail hand the so um mail is internal to the building so post um mail carrier comes in the building every resident has their own USPS reg regulated mailbox there are parcel boxes and we also have um a room for packages so Amazon delivers packages they can be delivered to the room and management let the residents know to come down and pick them up in your bathroom um have you upgraded to the new Ada code for the scooters I don't know for scooters but the new Ada regulations have increased the Turning rting which is one of those things that went from 5 5 7 in which is being accommodated through all the apartments so we're in elevator building 5% will be fully wheelchair accessible on day one um all the others will be adaptable so as a resident ages in place if they need grab bars added or counter or cabinet lower that can be I don't have any other questions from Mr johanneson so others do happy to answer them board members questions if I could just point one thing I think there was a question about signage so we do have letters on the building that are noted on the architectural building elevation um will be 14in high mounted internally lighted metal letters um these will be aluminum reverse Channel with the LED lighting on the back um here they're shown in white I believe they will be black but they are shown on the elevation so reverse Channel it so it'll be solid from the front it'll throw a w a wash on the wall and you'll see the negative that's I think that's we went the black letters it will give us better contrast to how do you control the for lack of a better word to spell trash within the the trash compactor room you mean before it goes out so the trash rooms on each floor the trash shoot is sealed there's a door that um is like on a hinge closes those all have exhaust fans so those the smells are exhausted from those and compact room has as well an exhaust F that runs continuously so it just blows that smell outside yes I mean there there's other ways to control that with an ionizer or something along that line I don't know I don't know about anybody else but I've been in a facility in Philadelphia where that actually had a problem for one day and that backed up and the entire building was disgusting the lack of that word um and I'm just looking for something that might be a backup or you know obviously if something goes down or your trash doesn't get picked up because it does happen you know I'm from the supermarket business I've had I've been involved in this and the things that people throw away you know they like their grandkids over they got dirty diapers in there there's food that they ate yesterday they having crabs for dinner that it gets ugly and all I'm wondering is it's that explanation is already ugly I'm sitting here smelling and and in the heat it's probably not an air conditioned room so there's a lot of things that if something happens I mean it's going to happen bad and I don't know what the if there's a backup plan or or how we could we have I'm work concerned for your residence than I am for down understand I we have multiple buildings like this um we have maintenance professionals who are on site 40 hours a week so if things like that happen you know they can go and clean the trash if there's a spill in the room you have somebody's available immediately going and cleaning and disinfecting the room and we have 247 meance on call for the hours that they AR there too so something happens the down there's we have we to from what I'm hearing you you sounds like you're going to have somebody management uh person on site pretty much 247 well we have a management person who be there management and maintenance will be there 40 hours a week 5 days a week and then we have on call management all we have full right when you say on call who who makes the call the residents can is there's an issue or there's an issue that's alerted by police or security or anything like that management immediately gets alerted me immediately gets alerted and they also have not only the building management but Regional and corporate level management also all you sort of touched on something U that made me think about uh what is if if anything done for uh uh resident governance I'll call it I mean is uh do the residents uh your does your facilities uh urge the residents to sort of form a a residence committee so there's a there's a set of officers that uh that some of our properties do have that we encourage that management will often run different activities for the for the resents encourage them to have res councils Counsel on how to set that up some properties do want to do that some so really is that dependent on the the temperature of the residents that your management takes after they move in yeah whether they're inclined to do that or disinterested yes okay can you tell me where theys like where the the exhaust is going out from the compactor and the shoots I go so from all three levels it goes the RO I'm not the mechanical engineer so I need to make that very clear but yes they go up through the roof makes sense so they're not near anyone window is there just one shoot area that's correct at the end of the wing that there's one shoot and that's all right um just a As a detail um suppose a resident wants to have their carpet cleaned or um some other work done inside to the extent it may be permitted by your rules and regulations um how how how do they do that and maintain the security at the same time well any any person who would be we have maintenance so if it's something like their cabinet is broken they rip the handle off or the door off we'll do that for them if they want to you know have their carpet clean and they want to have service come in and do that then they will clear that with the front desk and just say you know we're going to have these workers be coming into the building on this day to do ex service all right and I suppose there's a list of things that the tenant can and can't do inside the apartment yeah there's you know a lease that we would have that has rules you know you can't remodel bathroom yourself or your yourself you can't decide major changes if you paint you have to bring it back to rular standards you can't change the carpeting or things like that um and management will go over all of those things with the tenant when they're signing their and then also all of this is regulated by the New Jersey Mor Housing Finance Agency also this is a tax credit development so we have to meet h& standards we have to meet HUD standards they have to approve all of our PES we can't have in restri Clauses or anything multiple multiple levels of compliance we have to undergo every year we have to Res compliance both in terms of income certification and in terms of INSP of the building by state to make that um have you completed the Architectural Review we're complete so unless there's other questions for her then we'll go to our planner okay does the board have any board members have any questions to the architect before we let her sit down no okay okay planner up all right Mr mcdna I'm swor you're sworn so now I need you to introduce yourself and tell the board and the public about your experience and qualifications please hi there everyone my name is is John McDon I'm a licensed professional planner here in the state of New Jersey that license is current and it's good in good standing I'm also certified on a national level as well aicp I do this on a nightly basis throughout the state not sure if I've actually been here in Hainesport before but most of your surrounding communities and as I say up and up and down north south east west I get to see the full cross-section well I don't recognize you Mr McDonald but we're glad to have you here it's great to be here and uh we'll accept you as an expert thank you Mr chair okay so I gave a brief overview of the relief that the applicant is seeking but perhaps you can refresh everybody in terms of what relief are seeking and then Prov the grp ass sure and while I'm going through sort of the drier part of the testimony carrying through the relief that the applicant is seeking um again we're looking for several D1 variances here that are all sort of subsumed or interrelated into into one thing so we'll we'll look at it as a whole but I always like to lead off with letting the site speak for itself um all land use planning starts with the land uh this is a beautiful piece of land in a in a beautiful area and this proposal here is going to integrate and marry up very well with the land that's there in the surrounding land use context so we'll start with a look at the physical and then we'll work our way again into the alignment with the zoning ordinance and and your master plan you have a you have a blow up of that or we just work this is all I have okay so give one to our our our clerk so we can mark as an exhibit I think it's going to be A5 and Mr MCD should we call that we could call it a planning exhibit that's okay great make sure experts get [Applause] it thank you these are pretty recent photos Mr McDon these as close to real time as we get that's why I don't have the big version of it uh these were actually taken today so they are uh fair and accurate accurate representation of the property as it exists today and again you can see that this is a piece of property it's a single tax lot uh block 24 Lot number 10 it's a little over 6 acres and it is developed with the church and the parking lot and just sort of as a landmark you've got the basketball court there over to the right in the first page that's where this L-shaped building is going to start and and wrap around first frame is a view of the front of the church and the left side of the church second frame is a view of the front of the church on the right side of the church um and then finally we're looking at the back of the church in frame number three and we closed with full circle just kind of taking you hovering over the site um the surrounding land use context as you can see are varied here you've got religious to the West you've got warehouses that are starting to manifest and have already manifested and you've got the railroad as well um basically the plan that's before you is a refinement to what you have previously found to be appropriate for this location um it's for a 100% affordable senior housing project we have the same density that the board found was appropriate before 70 units basically the same number of stories as before as well you just saw the beautiful building and the Beautiful rendering three stories again a refinement to that which was previously approved to improve the overall living environment and just a a tighter development of the site a fine-tuning of the site um based on the plan that's before you same general form of development the same basic footprint in terms of this l-shape the massing the positioning of the building all basically the same so the reason we're here we're in your R1 residential Zone District where this multifam use is not permitted likewise the church is not permitted so we have two non-conforming uses that are coming together that triggers dual use relief as well um and then we have a a bucket of C relief or subsidiary relief as well Council ran through them at the beginning I'll I'll pop through them again as we as we bookend the testimony here um but in pretty much all instances we're taking what was previously approved and making it even better so moving the needle closer to conformance with your R1 Zone criteria in terms of the D1 use relief we're dealing here with an application that is in inherently beneficial use we know our courts have well vetted that the provision of senior housing is of Paramount public interest but most importantly the provision of affordable housing is a Paramount public interest and that's echoed by your fair share plan and that echoed by your master plan which is the underlying policy statement for your fair share plan and of course a court settlement uh that satisfied the folks at fair share in terms of meeting your or contributing to your affordable housing obligation well whenever we deal with an inherently beneficial use we move away from that medich standard for use relief which is a more complicated or more burdensome standard our courts have established a four prong simplified test um the Cox's handbook they talk about it as an analytical shortcut uh whereby the use is so beneficial that the positive criteria are automatically satisfied so we don't necessarily have to talk about need we don't have to talk about suitability per se um again all of that has been well vetted by the the nature of the use itself that said the four prongs are pretty stray forward prong number one is to identify the public interest at stake here again we're looking at the advancement of purpose P under the land use law the provision of senior housing which has been there from the beginning and Carries through um that advances that aspect of the master plan again the affordable housing component advances your fair share plan and your underlying master plan and a and a court settlement and then of course fundamental planning goals purpose a the promotion of the general welfare taking what's already been found to be appropriate here making it better is going to advance The General welfare purpose G the provision for a variety of uses in appropriate locations according to the needs of all New Jersey citizens again echoing senior housing and affordable housing all in in one package purpose eye the promotion of a desirable visual environment uh filling a void in the property um sort of framing the property if you will framing that parking lot with a beautiful building that will well integrate into the site and then finally purpose them are planning goal for efficient use of land this is a repurposing of developed land that is sitting there ready willing and able to accommodate the development that's before the board prong number two starts to turn towards the board um which I have observed this evening you have done a good job of of doing uh which is identifying any potentially detrimental effects visually or functionally um as I stand here now through the witnesses before me I think it has certainly been addressed through the questions of the board that this site will flow will function will operate safely efficiently and and comfortably for the people who will live here uh so I believe there are minimal if any detrimental effects as we uh stand here now the third prong of the test also comes back to the board again to impose reasonable restrictions to the extent needed to mitigate any of those impacts that still remain again I don't think there are substantial impacts here but again it's an interactive process other than what's already been stated uh the board can certainly impose reasonable restrictions as part of an interactive process and then finally prong number four is to apply the balancing here you take the very heavy weight on the positive side balance that out against the very little weight on the negative side with those mitigated impacts or effects and we see that this squarely lands as a net positive for the community satisfying the statutory criteria for D1 relief under what we call the the Seeker standard for inherently beneficial uses the relief for the Dual use for two uses operating on on one property we always look at whether one will interfere with the other here I think there's clearcut testimony that the introduction of this living environment onto the church grounds will not interfere with the operation of the church and the religious practice and the religious Mission and vice versa that the church will not conflict with the operation and the living environment of the people who will live live here it's actually a nice cohabitation if you will of two complimentary uses the last relief that the applicant is seeking moves down from the D level to the C Level and again just to Echo Council from the outset C relief for the lot coverage which is an improvement over what was previously approved 49.8 was approved moving it down to 47.1 is going to be site betterment it is over the 25% that's the maximum allowed by ordinance but again it's an improvement over the previously approved condition likewise the building height was approved at 38.2 4 ft The Proposal now is 36.67% none of the purposes of height control are going to be violated here by introducing a population that's going to exceed the carrying capacity of the land blocking Scenic views creating negative shadow effects or the like a sea relief for the parking count which is similar to what the board found appropriate before 206 where 285 would be required based on the aggregate of the uses um again you have some good solid evidence here that the two will complement each other there will be a sort of a sharing of spaces here and certainly based on the real world uh proof by an established uh builder of a senior or developer of senior housing and affordable housing that this will meet the actual demand based on ratios that they see um on other developments the building length is going to exceed 200 feet I think we max out at 339 ft but there's good variation in the building to break up the overall Mass not to to mention the Landscaping which will also soften the building and then finally the last thing is what you talked about earlier no outdoor dumpster again this is going to be for the beneficiary of the the population that will live here that said we think it's a good application I have one clarification Mr spelli had testified that if we need to make certain um adjustments that are requested by the county impervious may go up to 48.5% which is still lower than the 49.8% previously approved duly noted for the record inter all said I think based on all the testimony on the record the statutory criteria for the relief are met here this is a good application this is consistent with good planning principles for orderly Community growth and development um again importantly the statutory criteria are met here the applicant's burden is met and approval is warranted thank you Mr McDon members of the board have questions uh directed at Mr McDon Prof prise professional uh or professionals any questions of McDon that we haven't talked about before no sir uh Miss coffee is that your last witness yes it is Sir all right do you have anything to add before I open it up to public comment I don't think so sir okay so I will now open it up to public comment um do we have any people online no those two have dropped off okay so with people in the audience uh if anyone has any comments uh please come raise your hand come forward to the microphone we'll hear the no one can't see behind that that billboard but I don't think there's I don't think there's anybody over there all right we'll close public uh public hearing at this point um last chance for board members for questions otherwise I'm going to ask um to um to frame a motion for your consideration affirming the relief or granting the relief saw it they are seeking a motion to approve an amended preliminary and final major site plan with variances for um lot coverage height uh parking count we've already previously granted some of these VAR they may have changed a little bit and of course it would be in compliance with the engineer's letter and the planner's letter uh comments and recommendations that includes granting uh the non-conforming use and the C and D relief so it's a use it's a use variance because uh it was not a permitted use it still is not a permitted use uh you previously granted a use variance but this is a modification of the previous approval so it still becomes a use variance so I would recommend that you you can do it all in one step if you want to do it that way use variance with the both Varian and conditions all right given the prior approvals seems like one step here is appropriate can I have a motion I'll make that motion second I'll second roll call please M Costco yes Mrs Kelly yes Miss Tori oh no oh that's right I'm sorry uh Mr Bradley yes Mr jochi yes Mr noita yes Mr Murphy yes and Mr McKay yes thanks very much really appreciate and may I say your St has been a pleasure to work with too very nice presentation thank you thank you boy it's nice to get Applause once in a while right first you guys should lead with that uh I don't know that's a question for Paula sure yeah good representation God bless you congratulations Miss coffee it is right very nice job say who my friend thank you I know so so excited to have I had a breakfast party I had a lunch party no my son my son is home alone so I got I could ask you to take it outside you have other things to do what about meeting going on here thank you Paul right thank you I'll Beed to you oh I don't know firsta she's right here okay paa paa all right we uh can I have some order we do have a few other things to take care of tonight uh the minutes from the August 7th 2024 meeting can I have a motion to accept the minutes so moved R call Mr Bradley yes Mrs Kelly yes Mrs JY yes may Gore yes Mr jochi yes Mr novita yes Mr Murphy yes Miss Costco is I here yes August 7th oh a yeah Mr McKay yes and we have uh two resolutions uh the first being 202 24-22 this is a sidey variance for that bedroom Edition for the single family house um motion to approve is drafted some moved second roll call Mrs Tori yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr Bradley yes Mrs Kelly yes Mr chochi yes Mr Murphy yes Miss Costco yes and Mr McKay yes uh next resolution 20 24-23 it's the resolution granting amended final um subdivision approval uh storm waterer drainage plan um I have a motion to Grant to accept that uh resolution as drafted and approve it I'll make that motion this is uh this I should say this is for uh r&m Development LLC so I have a motion to approve Miss Costco Miss Costco second roll call Miss Costco yes mayor Gilmore yes Mrs Tori yes Mr Bradley yes Mr shochi yes and Mr Murphy yes okay um we have a few pieces of Correspondence that are listed under nine uh if no one seeks to address any particular one can I have a motion to receive and file the correspondence I make a motion that we receive and file theond second all in favor I I okay professional comments um I have one unless I don't know if mayor's going to make a comment do you do you have a comment or anything you want to say under it I don't know if I could hold myself together so all right about um well yeah just about H so two things that I wanted to say just it's you know sad to see H go it's been great working uh with the board now I know but as a he simply reti I know from this board but we I won't get a chance to see him uh here as part of this board so that's been great the only other thing I'd like to say on another note is I'd like to wish Paula Costco a very happy birthday oh 39 29 again I get to do it 21 times this is 25 times you know two thank you today a welcome to the club Young yes as I barrel roll out of bed every morning I'm definitely in the club all right uh and any other professional comments if not we'll close that board comments comments by the board sorry I'll make a comment sorry to see HK uh off the board was a really a great uh chair and U wish him well and hopefully he'll get better you know improve the mobility we'll see him around town that's good is he get better yeah well I I don't I really don't want to comment on his condition but I but I I guess he's working on rehab good I have a question for the lawyer for the lawyer for Mr Kingsbury Mr Kingsbury you have a question from a board member I'm sorry since H is off is has resigned or retired do we have to permanently Tom M to be our chairman you have to vote on a new chairman yes I wouldn't use the word permanent would be to the end of the year no it's only to the end of the it's only to the end of the year so would you would you advise to put that as an agenda item maybe on the next yes you could do that at the next meeting okay Paul you can take care of that for chair and vice chair correct yes well you got to do both I guess you got to move some somebody up to each each maybe move up maybe not I would do both all right um public comments mean one one gentleman is back oh that's okay thank you all right that's the public comment happy birthday Paul uh motion to adjourn please so move all in favor I all opposed Jour German is commence with the adjournment thanks would you like something for your h i