turn off to very nice sry I know I have a lot of room this is my good that's fine boy oh you're sending it off anyway ah Jesus Christ I mean guess who guess whose water just went over de my water broke whoa Jesus Christ roll this thing terrific can't work yeah M are you responsible for him the long hair was not serving me well what I can wait till you see it Cur trying not to get you wet oh I don't care I got wet coming in this place yeah she will I warn drink sorry underneath this but herend just when I had everything organized it happens you're not water everywhere problem is I didn't even see the cup of water there was kinding Bott still h you look f b kingsberry is not here yeah oh no he didn't get here yet did he you probably did oh yeah wait a couple minutes yeah he was he here before no that's okay we're not in the I think you're good yeah I'm not in trouble all right thank you you're welcome we can't get started with that P pardon we can't get started with that P we don't have that I was looking for this package I was looking for mentions of you know Mrs Costco sir anybody online yes okay there's five five individuals right now yeah okay I think it's preliminary no preliminary final and yeah then there should be S right we got to get boba back colors or anything yeah flooded believe yeah Tom Boulevard's closed I just got a nixel oh this stuff all comes later in the meeting this one it's all towards the end what's that do you know why the road was closed and correspond yeah I couldn't get down was it an accident I don't know either a flight or an accident you leave in Metro okay ride home tonight cuz my car is disabled oh yeah absolutely okay great uh call to order please will everyone please rise for the flag salute pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all I have a reading of the sunshine lab notice that this meeting was published according through the open public meetings Act okay our normal announcement there will be no new business started after 10:30 may I have a roll call please Mrs tordy here Mr mcad here Mrs Kelly here mayor Gilmore here Mr Troi here Mrs Bia here Mr Murphy here miss Costco here Mr Bradley absent Mr noita absent uh Mr mlle absent Mr Holden here and Mr uh Pro here do we have a quorum yes sir yes yes okay thank you okay the uh first item for new business today is uh case 24-5 John dpet Polo did I pronounce that right po okay and U Mr Fusco will be speaking for S I swear you in you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight be the truth whole truth nothing but the truth yes it do thanks how may we help you uh so the purpose of the variance is to put an addition on the property uh it's a 33 by10 addition uh the the homeowner has um multiple roof leaks due to having flat roofs and you're looking to put an a basically the entire property okay and it's in the front of the property right right correct okay and what did you say the measurements of the addition on uh 33 by 10 okay and it's it's within the width of the house correct as it is right now so it's not going to present any problems with no side clearance and everything [Music] um anybody on the board have any questions on this application no it's pretty clear from the papers what's going on okay professionals any comments yes sir just to let you know the reason that it's here is that the left side of the house and I've given you folks the pictures is that they are only 4 uh3 feet from the left side your setback where 15 is required M so it is probably one of the most simplest bulk variances that we've had in quite a while yeah it's ume existing too correct this is Long Creek Road there a lot of those homes are older right okay um any comments from the public on this application I have a question what is the purpose of the addition is it in inside the house or outside so it's a setback on the garage uh so so this would bring it so that the whole face of the house is all basically one but the room that you're adding is that for living area or garage or what partial so there's there's a connecting area in between the house and the garage it would bump that out so that it's all straight across from the garage so there would be some some living area added okay thank you um hearing no comments from the public I'll close public comments and ask the board what's your wish I'm move to Grant the variance requested I'll second any questions on the motion from the board hearing none may I have a roll call please Mr McKay yes Mr ker yes Mrs tordy yes Mrs Kelly yes Mrs Gilmore yes Mr tooi yes Mrs bgio yes Mr Murphy yes M Costco yes okay it's approved motion is approved is there anything else you would like to ask us uh yes I'm asking to proceed with a waiver without risk uh due to the the roof leaks that are active currently okay you better get over there yeah right especially tonight this week um do we have a motion from the the board or any questions first of all professionals no sir okay boards what's your pleasure some move to Grant the year request second any questions on the motion I have a roll call please Mr McKay yes Mr cifer yes Mrs tordy yes Mrs Kelly yes may Filmore yes Mr chochi yes Mrs bgio yes Mr Murphy yes and Miss Costa yes okay good luck you can start uh when the rain stops okay thank you okay second case is 24-1 Carval I always pronounce that wrong I'm sorry car carvalo is that pronounced right carvalo carvalo carpentry uh councelor David espito good afternoon Mr chairman my name is Eric lauff I'm covering for Mr espito he's a little under the weather I was a former partner of his and I'm his son-in-law so he called me okay um I have with me Mr carvalo uh if he can be sworn in he's GNA um answer some questions and give some test sir raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm the testimony you give be the truth the whole truth nothing with the truth yes thank uh as reference it's case number 2401 block 64 lot 15 it's 2611 Marney Highway um similar to the prior application it's a relatively simple bulk variance um the applicants looking to extend an already pre-existing non-conformity of the front uh front yard setback um to extend the property a little bit um with an addition renovate it substantially uh bring in more Conformity with the uh with the neighbor Hood um from where it is now we have a um review letter nothing my package from Miss newom um setting forth about uh three separate things um my client has spoken with Miss nuk mle um all three of these matters will be addressed and taken care of um the chain link fence is going to be removed the driveway that was referenced um is going to be removed and there's a comment with regards to the door to a basement the current property has a door um that's going to be renovated so it actually operates to the area it's going to be renovated to look a little nicer and actually work um so to those three comments they're all going to be addressed um if the board would like just have my client briefly describe what the project is going to be what what's there now and what ration look like right now there's a node house uh that needs a lot of work done so we're going to put a 16x 20 foot addition and uh do a major aall new window and everything the house will be pretty much brand new after it's all satday night okay thank you and uh sir this is going to be a single family house that's correct as opposed to the duplex proposal you had some time ago yes duplex not going any any questions from the board professionals I'd like to hear yeah I'd like to hear from Miss Nukem in terms of so with this application I met uh with Mr carvalo in regards to several of the issues um we took a look at the plans as well and was very happy to see the layout of this house does not have the um for any form of apartment or anything such as that it actually is a very nice uh project um he also is going to be removing the front door uh and putting a window in there uh that you see if you see that on the plan uh that no longer will be that front entrance uh the he's getting rid of that front driveway the county has uh contacted our office and I explained to them that what was going on so he will not need County approval uh I spoke directly with Danielle Scolari over at the county Engineers office uh as well as uh the fencing we were both in agreement that it should be removed um there is going to be a partial fence that he'll meet the setbacks with uh that it's going to be on the right side of the property uh it's basically just to give it some definition um because of our foot traffic sometimes along maren Highway um but overall uh this uh in reviewing this this seems to be um a really nice project to rehab that house that has not been in the best condition so uh and again Mr um Mr Taylor and I had spoken and we felt that this was something that I would be able to uh project my thoughts to the board uh on the applicant's behalf okay thank you welcome any other professional comments yes I have a comment having to do with the uh well the ordinance requires a uh asphalt driveway so he's looking for a waiver for the stone driveway we are looking to have some uh um measurements showing how big the driveway is going to be and and the uh depth of the materials that you're going to put on the other thing I would like to recommend is is that they put a uh a concrete apron or at least maybe an asphalt apron from the road to four or five ft back into the uh into the parking area so it'll keep the stone in the in the uh if you're going to let them do the stone keep the stone in the in the parking area so itn't get off on the street so how long is this driveway from from from Street curb to building think more or less the proposed is 20 by 20 you're asking the actual depth um Street the full distance is about 40 feet of the length of driveway to the rear garage and then like two parking spaces yeah okay so they add another 10 ft to the right away sure so if I understand this correctly if they if they're going to put Asphalt in the driveway not Stones then they don't require this the apron or the asphalt will take place at the apron price okay is that councelor is that clear yes I'm okay with the I was planning on doing that any after the ask all the way okay good point so there's no need for the waiver on that okay resolve um I'll open this application to the public any comments on this application please raise your hand and be acknowledged or sit there and hold your peace okay thank youer may I ask one question of the applicant first yes Mr galor when we spoke earlier in regards to the piece of fence that you wanted to put on the mar Highway side are you looking to do the 4 foot high or the six foot high because the 4ot high would not be a both varing because the house is only 22.5 ft back if you do the six foot that we would need for that piece that you're looking across um you would need to have a front yard set back for that six foot high fence it is up to you what you're requesting I'm sorry okay so at that point then you're not going to need to B variance for that okay I just want to put that on record okay um we have any comments from the folks online okay I'll close public comment um V to Grant the uh variance is requested subject to the conditions that the applicant has agreed to tonight any questions on the motion may have a roll call please yes yes M yesil yes Mr yes Mr yes Mr mury yes M yes good luck good luck case C 24-4 BTC the third asport LLC councelor Michael Floyd evening Mr chairman for the name is Michael Floyd I'm with Arthur and grer appearing on behalf of the applicant btc3 Hanes Court LC urban renewal LLC which has submitted an application for minor subdivision approval for property located along Route 38 and identified as block 42 lot 1.05 on the township official tax maps the property is located near the intersection of Route 38 and Mount Holly bypass within the Route 38 Mount Holly bypass Redevelopment area and the use of development of the property is subject to the corresponding Redevelopment plan uh with me this evening we have two witnesses we have Joe Romano a licensed professional surveyor with lying and Engineering he is the survey our record uh for this minor subdivision application and if necessary necessary we also have Joe Fiero uh on behalf of the applicant in case there's any questions about the overall project uh that this application relates to uh but just in terms of some brief background uh this board branded preliminary in final major site plan approval uh in December of 2021 in connection with two industrial buildings uh and related site improvements thereafter the board uh granted plinary final subdivision approval creating this lot in question and to help refresh the board's recollection we have three exhibits this evening uh exhibit A1 is a copy of copy of that filed Subdivision plat creating lot 1.05 exhibit A2 are the existing and proposed lot configuration both for the file plat that was perfected in 2023 and also the subdivision pending before you uh this evening and then if necessary exhibit A3 is the Subdivision plat that was filed with this application as I stated earlier this minor subdivision application is consistent with the Redevelopment plan the applicant is also the designated redeveloper of the property and has an executed Redevelopment plan excuse me Redevelopment agreement with the township um and last but not least I think most importantly this minor subdivision plan is consistent with a purchase and sale agreement with the New Jersey Department of Transportation uh this entire subdivision application uh is being submitted to this board to help effectuate a land swap between the applicant and do uh in connection with the existing near side Jug Handle on Route 38 that it's going to be reconfigured uh better traffic flow uh on Route 38 and for the project in general uh but I'll ask Mr Kingsbury if we could have her Witnesses sworn at this time Mr Floyd could you just Mr chairman there is a din in here that coming from the back of the room I'm having trouble hearing Mr Floyd it's not fair to they certainly use the meeting okay so if we could ask for some quiet from the back of the room please appreciate it okay uh folks who are being sworn in John raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth whole truth nothing but truth self go so yes is your surveyor he didn't he was not that's me oh you're a surve oh okay no used to seeing a surveyor in a suit I guess cannot be rotated one other house matter before I turn it over to Joe to go through the exhibits this evening is this is a minor subdivision approval again creating the lots to effectuate the land swap C Dot and the applicant and also creating a new retail lot again all consistent with the Redevelopment plan and the Redevelopment agreement um ideally and pursu to Municipal land use law the applicant is required to perfect a minor subdivision approval within 190 days depending on how quickly we have dot review uh the final subdivision plans and the resolution of approval and get to closing we may be back before this board asking for an extension of time to perfect that minor subdivision approval but I wanted to put that out there uh now for the board but there's other questions that actually Jo monor to come up the microphone let me let me just ask one one not not a question of you folks is there anybody in the audience that's here about this case because I want to give you an opportunity to look at the exhibits up front Okay so proceed we don't need to change anything just matter for record experence sure uh Joe Romano I'm a principal at Langan Engineering in my 45th year been there I'm licensed in New Jersey New York Connecticut Pennsylvania Florida DC and I've testified before this board in the past yes okay thank yes I remember you so Joe if you can just walk us through through guess first exhibit A1 briefly which is the plat that was filed in May of 2023 creating lot 1.05 sure so this creates that lot that we were speaking about this map was before this board and was approved and was filed in May 23 and it was approved as pretty straight forward and if we move to exhibit A2 because it is difficult to see some of these slot being created correct this is exhibit A2 showing the previous and proposed loot configurations both for the prior subdivision and the subdivision under consideration this evening again for clarity we took the prior subdivision and made up larg uh existing propos which is now existing um and then you can see the existing and the prop with j gandle reconfigured lot 105 handle in coordination with the do requirements and then this res potential real estate 107 and that Jug Handle is making it easier access to get into the the warehouse on this south side of 38 right make that turn and that's a little more visible on this 3 the conditions some of the exis current J handle is and we are receipt of the draft DOT permit we're expecting the developers agreement in the very near future and once everything is executed we'll be able to uh commence construction of those RightWay and Drug handle improvements uh and once those improvements have been fully installed and inspected uh by the dot we will be in a position to go to closing uh in connection with the land swap okay excuse me um I I do remember these other applications that preceded but there's nothing about a new Warehouse going up it's the ones that have already been approved and that is correct so there's there's no new development in terms of warehousing or other site improvements proposed with this application uh in 2021 the board had granted approval for two warehouse distribution facilities this is often referred to as the Old Atlantic Woods site uh the applicant has undertaken significant uh remediation efforts uh in in conjunction with an approved remedial action work plan uh to bring it into compliance with current standards um it is part of the Redevelopment plan it was always anticipated that we would be back before this board for The Jug Handle uh that first subdivision an approval create lot 1.05 where the warehouses will be located and what it helped to do shift back to exhibit A1 or maybe exhibit A2 this is the Nissan dealership and if you recall there was a very narrow and angular driveway that split lot 2.01 from lot 1.01 and that last subdivision created a new driveway to dot standards to access the rear lot lot 1. 05 good and then this is maybe a little bit aside but I'm just trying to put the whole picture together I recall I think the last time you R was on the I guess be the eastern part has that property swap been resolved with the motel owner yes it has okay good so so this will prob this I would say right now this is the last piece of the puzzle with pport Township we do need to get to our closing with do uh again we have the draft DOT permit we also have State House Commission approval and act of the legislature for this uh land swap uh in place dot uh and the officials in Trent in Trenton are fully supportive of it as I mentioned we may have to come back before this board for an extension of time depending on how long it takes to construct the improvements and how long it takes for do to inspect them okay thank you thank you any questions from anybody on the board professionals Mrs Nukem no no no okay that's good news no I'm saying everybody no more person um open public comment on this application only please anyone have comment that they wish to express anybody online what's being swapped no okay hearing none and seeing no hands in the audience I will close public comment and ask the board what's your pleasure Mr chairman I to Grant the minor subdivision application applicant is getting this second who second I giving up oh okay thank you uh any questions on the motion hearing none may I have a roll call please Mr McKay yes M CCO yes Mrs T yes Mrs Kelly yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr chochi yes Mrs bgio yes Mr Murphy yes and Mr CER yes thank thank you um I have one okay next is case 24-3 hesport Family Apartments councelor Damian deluka what's that good and how are you we couple good evening Mr chairman good evening sir ladies and gentlemen my name is Damen deluka and I'm an attorney with the law firm of deluka Lewis and Burr and I represent the the applicant this evening which is hesport Family Apartments LLC as we're getting our exhibits set up hopefully in a way that as many people as possible can see them uh Mr chairman I'd like to just give an overview as to who we are and why we're here uh and some history and then we'll get into some testimonies first of all I have with me my client Edmund C spel who's with the Walters Group which is affiliated with the applicant asport family apartment LLC have civil engineer J with shulo engineering who's setting up the exhibits and I have our architect Michael Donovan there he is and our traffic engineer John McCormick with Dynamic traffic and you're going to hear a testimony from each of them this evening the property that we're here for tonight is block 104 lot 1.06 it's about 9.6 Acres on Creek Road it's currently undeveloped ra ground uh the my client owns the property I purchased it uh approximately four years ago three or four years ago uh and it owns this site and we're here tonight to present to you an application for preliminary and final major site plan approval for 72 uh affordable apartment units that are restricted to families uh who qualify as low or moderate income uh families or individuals the property is in the ah1 affordable housing one zoning District which was created for the express purpose of facilitating these 7 these 72 units on this specific piece of property and there's a history here that many of you are familiar with but just so the record's complete and everyone in the room uh who may not be as familiar uh has a sense of the history because it's it's quite an involved history that began I think in 2017 the walers group is uh a company specializes in developing 100% affordable residential communities and in affordable Community is a community where the individuals that live there are qualify as either low or moderate income individuals and uh though as you know as a planning board or a l use board every municipality in the state of New Jersey has an obligation under the law uh to provide its fair share of affordable housing and to provide a realistic opportunity for the creation of affordable housing in your town and every one of the 565 municipalities in this state so uh like many other towns uh hesport Township has been dealing with that obligation over many years it's an obligation that many of your Township officials are very familiar with uh it creates and the application tonight for this property is an outgrowth of that obligation and it is a substantial portion and component of the Township's fulfillment of its obligations it started as I said in 2017 this property on Creek Road was identified by the township as a site that it wanted to develop for a 100% affordable community and there's been some actions taken by the municipality that I'd like to just briefly review one is in in 2019 the governing body the committee adopted resolution 2019-1 the execution of an affordable housing agreement with my client the applicant and also the expenditure of funds to help facilitate this 100% affordable Community the township did that because it had collected what's called affordable housing trust funds which it's obligated to spend on the provision of affordable housing and the town in an effort to satisfy its obligations uh entered into adopted that resolution authorizing the execution of that agreement and the spending of those funds to help facilitate and expedite this community so that the town could uh fulfill its obligations in part as a result of that resolution the township did indeed enter into an agreement with the applicant on March 12 2020 and in that agreement I'll just summarize as saying that it recognized that the applicant was about to purchase the property again as a result of discussions with the municipality and in that agreement it pledged financial support for uh this community the township pledge financial support because without that financial support this type of community would never get built these types of communities are essentially financed through various vehicles and a primary one is administered through the New Jersey housing mortgage Finance Agency known as hmfa but these these communities in order to happen really are municipally sponsored which means that there has to be collaboration with the town to help create the financing that's necessary to spend the town's affordable housing trust funds to help facilitate these communities so that's why the town entered into that agreement but in that agreement it is obvious that the town uh envisioned this property to be developed for this purpose and for the town to help make that happen by spending some of its trust funds in 2021 specifically on December 14th of 20 21 hesport Township adopted ordinance 2021-22 48.1 on July 13th 2023 the township entered into a settlement agreement with fair share housing center which as most of you if not all of you know is the housing Advocate that has uh litigated with most municipalities in the state of New Jersey in order to compel them to comply with their affordable housing obligations and most well more than most virtually every town in the state of New Jersey has entered into a settlement agreement with fair share housing center uh and in that agreement this community at this location is specifically referenced in two places section 11b and in a schedule attached to the agreement and that agreement clearly envisions that this property would be developed for for the affordable housing apartment units that were here for this evening in 2023 on October 3rd 2023 uh the township committee adopted resolution 20235 d10 authorizing the township to spend additional monies and in uh uh to support this community and to increase the number of affordable units from 66 units to 72 units that was done not arbitrarily but that was done in order to help the municipality gain more units and to better comply and comply you know come closer to full compliance with its affordable housing obligations in order to create those additional units additional funds were required and that resolution authorized the expenditure of additional funds as a result of that resolution the same day the municipality entered into a First Amendment to the affordable housing agreement with the applicant which agreed to loan monies and and support this uh Community further and to increase the number of units uh so that's the long history and I apologize for the length of it but I wanted everyone to understand it and so that leads us to tonight which is an application for site plan approval before the planning board this is for many many of the people here especially those from the public who may not be familiar with the history that I just outlined uh for them this this is the first time maybe that some of them are seeing this application and we're here tonight to present it uh but in the grand scheme of the process of making an affordable housing community like this a reality this is really the final Municipal step in the process and tonight's process is limited to site plan approval and as you know as a land use board the purpose of a site plan application really is very narrow focused on whether the applicant complies with your site plan ordinance and other applicable zoning and land use ordinance requirements that's it it's not a qualitative analysis relating to the use or the permissibility of the use the use is permitted uh it's not whether you like dislike affordable housing it's really not even about traffic although I know doing this quite some time many applications are about traffic even when it's not legally an issue certainly people who live in any Town care about traffic we understand that we're going to address that but it's really just about checking the boxes to as to whether we meet all of your ordinance requirements we've submitted an application we have detailed letters uh from Mr Miller and Mr Taylor and they confirm uh in their letters essentially that we check the boxes not in those words but they confirm that we don't require any variances that we meet all of your use bulk and others zoning ordinance requirements we meet all of your site design standards with perhaps a few minor exceptions and and therefore uh after you hear the evidence that we're going to produce tonight this is a byright application in the law New Jersey is when you when you're a land use board and you're hearing a s Fon application the question is do we meet those ordinance requirements if so the application must be granted so I wanted to mention that again for everyone's uh benefit because it really is a narrow issue before the board this evening the two letters that I mentioned are Mr Taylor's letter dated February 17th and Mr Miller's letter dated March 1st um I want to thank them for those letters uh our professionals have spoken to them we don't think we have any issues with those letters we're going to agree to comply with those letters other than some clarifications that Mr schul is going to put on the record in a few minutes but other than those clarifications for Mr shulo we will comply with those two letters uh exhibits I've handed out exhibits exhibit 81 is on the board at the top it is a color rendering of our site plan superimposed on an aerial it's called a site rendering dated March 6 2024 and i' marked that as exhibit A1 and then I've handed out three sheets of architectural rending prepared by Donovan Architects Mr Donovan here this evening I don't think they're dated three color sheets they're intended to show everyone what these buildings will look like uh so those are the two exhibits that I've handed out and then the last thing I'm going to do is just Mark for the record I'll give Mr kingsburry and Mr hyber a copy I I didn't think anyone else would want copies but just a couple other exhibits uh that I summarized in my opening statement one is exhibit 83 is Township of hesport resolution [Music] 2019-12 exhibit A4 is the affordable housing agreement between the township and the applicant exhibit A5 is ordinance 2021-22 3- 115-10 and exhibit A7 is the First Amendment to affordable housing agreement I also have the fair share settlement agreement but I won't Mark that uh I'll just consider that part of the record so I will hand a copy to Mr Kings Mary M P thank you is this A1 that's A1 A2 is behind there two sheet there's a A2 is A2 with the architecturals which are three sheets okay um is that what's on the floor over here that is what's on the floor Mr is going to provide some that's A3 right a1's on the on the easel A2 is on the floor and the other exhibits that I just handed to miss Ty and Mr Kingsbury are the various resolutions ordinances and agreements that I referenced that I did not hand out to everyone right Mr K yeah Mr the sheets that were handed out the last three sheets are all A2 correct the um the ones the pictures yeah the renderings yes sir yeah but it says Cornerstone at hesport and it's dated March 4th 2024 that's that doesn't exist Does it uh so yeah I didn't see the date Mr chairman so exhibit 82 is date of March 4th 2024 the words Cornerstone in hesport were placed on that by architect because the Walters Group typically names their communities Cornerstone at hesport okay so that's where that name comes from uh and that's why it's on the rendering okay sure thanks thanks for your introductory comments it was very helpful my my my pleasure uh if if you don't have any questions for me I'm going to have my Witnesses sworn again first you're going to hear from Mr scho civil engineer talk about the site plan Mr spel will tell you about how this community will operate a little bit about the Walters Group and how uh the tenant selection process works Etc uh our architect will provide some brief testimony about exhibit A2 and Architectural related issues then you'll hear Last from our traffic engineer Mr pering okay let's just see anybody on the board have a question of Mr deluka yeah Mr deluka very thorough presentation thank you um could you ask Mr Schuler to discuss uh this idea which I don't see on any of the plans it's very simple idea uh and that is to install a gravel uh based walking path in the Wetland Zone that huge triangle of land yep otherwise unoccupied and tie it back into the houses um seems to me it could be done and perhaps you could address that sure be happy to and it would be an improvement I think for the residents uh we we'd be happy to it's a question of whether that's permissible under the wetlands regulations and he'll he'll answer that I realize that but not be an issue for us the point of raising the question absolutely and Counsel on that I don't know whether it would be you or one of your Witnesses is going to I'm I'm just curious who owns or who's who are the principles in hesport Family Apartments LLC so the we submitted with our application a disclosure statement the principles as I understand it Mr spel will tapat me on the shoulder if I get this wrong are Joseph A deluka who's also my brother and Edward Walters okay and that should be disclosed on the disclosure statement that's required with all land use applications right they are also principles of the Walters group The Walters Group develops portable housing they use a different entity in each different location which is why this one is hesport family apartment L okay and then my last one for now I know it's not your last question Mr no it's not um wi with regards to it's a comment raised by uh Mr Taylor relative to the number of one bedroom two bedroom three bedroom um we just like to get that in testimony from whomever you choose to say it so I've gone through both letters and we'll have testimony addressing all the questions in their letters uh that's my intention if I miss any Scott or Marty will tell me but we have that testimony planned I have that information for you wonderful thank you my pleasure Mr shulo we'll start with you well you want to swear them all at once Bob yes please okay please speed it up I thought I already did okay everyone come forward please who's going to testify right hand up who swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir thank you thank you we're going to start with Mr shulo uh Mr shulo we just get situated here but why don't you begin by reviewing your professional background good evening everyone for the Jason c i and professional engineer professional planner licensed in New Jersey practicing professionally for almost 25 years specializing in L A Bachelor of engineering from Stevens Institute of Technology I started this firm about six years ago part of that I work for a couple larger Firs specializ inuse I've been this boardly and hundreds others State Mr chairman we'd ask the board to accept Mr shulo as an expert in professional engineering any questions from any on the board for Mr schula a hearing none it's acceptable thank you Mr schula were you present during my introductory comments I was were they accurate to the best of your knowledge yes did you prepare exhibit A1 we did did I actually describe what it is yes it's a color rendering of the okay can you take everyone here through the site plan that's proposed sure so again exib A1 as you'll see on this plan it's an aerial photo from 2020 with our proposed work in the brighter colors comic strip kind of colors across the the bottom of the site here is Creek Road along the left side which will be the the West um is mar highway to the north of us you'll see part of the industrial park and the other side of Creek Road to our East is I'm sorry to our West the industrial park city east to the west of single family homes and Mason Woods the uh the project site as you'll see has a generally odd shape the yellow is the boundary of the lot which there's a triangular piece that was just mentioned prior to starting complex one it's shown here in purple this little bit of blue that's here is the Wetland buffer line you see all the work we proposes outside of that so heading generally to the West um the project site has access from Creek Road through one driveway to service what amounts to 72 units again six buildings in addition to the apartment portion of those buildings there's also a community space on the end of the building that's in the North Eastern Corner the top lot shown on the outside edge and you'll see this triangular shaped parking lot that parking lot contains 122 parking spaces including eight electric vehicle charging station parking spaces as required by state law what you'll see in the mustard color is Storm manag features are in that brownish mustard color to signify that there will be a sand bottom which is required our state rules for storm and you'll see also landscape PL extensive amount that WRA the site to create buffering along with some trees in the middle of the is this that Ukrainian site it's okay go ahead that s you just asked about is this one right here that's C and what site is that just so everyone's clear okay they have see basketball resal and our site wraps around that it does okay continue please so um the the design itself is relatively simple in that there's full compliance with rsis we require no variances as mentioned no design waivers other than a couple minor things which we'll touch on relative to um some of the features raised in in the letters but by and large fully compliant with state law for sure and under the local ordinates dep parts that are applicable we mostly comply with um there a centralized area that we show in the back corner here this is something that wter does exclusively that unless some cop off has happened but generally doing all of their communities centralized trash location that becomes much more convenient safer and cleaner um for the community rather than dumpster pads and enclosures all over the site there's one large enclosure that has a compactor in it open top and recycling can that get serviced by a private huler that Walter rains and umat to the neighborhood actually more convenient as mentioned there's also pedestrian connectivity with sidewalks through the site there's also sidewalk on Creek Road that's going to come down and connect to the walking path that runs West down Creek Road or excuse me East down Creek Ro uh the site is serviced by public water and sewer and all the other Public Utilities um it has um as I mentioned no impact to the Wetland features and just to hit the question that was raised by Mr the idea of placing a walking path through this while of go I just want to make sure it's clear we would do that other than this area is relatively steep I say relatively and that from one end of the site to the other is over 20 ft of fall so it drop significantly through the woods here and the walking path be difficult perspec so we'll look into it but chances are we won't be able to do I've looked at the lot yeah there is a rise but it isn't anything insurmountable I mean if if you were a walker unless you're handicapped you ought to be easily able to negotiate the terrain if an appropriate wood chip based or gravel based path was put in about the ability of maybe make that safe pursu to whatever standard May apply to I requirements would apply but if they don't there's a chance and of course subject to per from D thank you so depending on the permanent issues if I can Mr chairman um if there are no Recreation facilities benches or anything else on it it can be an undeveloped Trail it can be a moan path um the concern we we've seen with wood chips they get displaced from storms and if they aren't maintained they just become grass um and weeds over time so it may make more sense it depending on the disposition of the trees and other areas at their limit of clearing around the Basin would provide they have pretty much a loop internally but it ends kind of at both sides near their trash enclosure if they extended that around sort of at the toe of grading near their uh Basin that might provide something without having to get into the woods and into the M those wet much steeper slopes if that would be agreeable to the board well I think it's an important U opportunity to give the residents and even if the thing winds up being quarter of a mile long or a loop of a quarter mile or half or a third of a mile and it's a it's a loop you're giving them an opportunity that they otherwise wouldn't have going by Scott's advice I think that we could probably make thatas the other question I had mentioned mentioned a sidewalk going toward hesport Mount Laurel Road is there a sidewalk that's going to go to the underpass no okay um there's a bus line that runs on Mount on nor Highway um have you thought about giving pedestrian access to that bus line that's I would rather have talk about that we've done have okay I'm just putting it out there a walk I I think that uh to pick up on Mr McKay's comment that because when you gave your answer I wow because all of the paperwork that I read you folks presented to the state and so forth plays up the fact that it's the intersection of Creek Road and M highway and it's available for U businesses residents uh restaurants um public transportation but it's like how do you I think your same question you have how do you get there from your concept because I don't know if you've ever driven under that overpass the railroad but it's enough of a task for two cars to they can't go in there together and people I'm surprised that uh there haven't been more complaints or thank God no injuries but but I'm not sure which applications you mean they were ones that my office did I don't know I got this many papers last Friday and spent a lot of time reading through it I could find what I'm addressing in one application but it it does make reference to public transportation and the only public transportation that I know is onl highway or Route 38 so Mr chairman the application for funding likely Mr SP really we should have Mr spel address this but my understanding is that the availability of of public transportation is one criteria that hmfa looks at and that may have been referenced in some of the papers that you looked at I don't know what you looked at though but how does a resident of your project get to the public transportation that's my question I think Mr McKay you were ricking raising the same point right well sure I mean there's only two ways to go you get a long long walk out to route 38 or the short walk to war highway but some but somebody else will address that yes okay thank you almost done with the S stuff so in addition to previous testimony want to make sure it's C record the stor management system that's included with this application is fully compliant with the state St rules that are referenc the new ordinance as well as the residential soving standards that were Reed to with pursu the state law the other I mention the the landscaping around the buffering around the site which again is compliant with what the age on stand have relative to the required landscape sight layout okay any questions from the board I have a question please what did you tell say that the area was that it it um surrounds with basketball court there what is that building that's in there with this this piece here it's under ownership of a group called The bosniacs and Delware Valley what is it what's the use I'm not sure we haven't it's it's a it's a social social club and am I correct that um okay the applicant purchased the rest of the property from the bosniacs owned that that originally didn't they correct my client purchased the property that we're here for tonight from the bosniacs thank you it's a social club with athletic fields and parking area okay thank you basically Clubhouse in the middle oh it's Clubhouse yeah yeah no alcohol sir um let me just continue with Mr shulo and of course board can ask any questions Mr shulo is it correct that the town codified the affordable housing one zone in section 48.1 is it correct that that zone permits one principal use which is a multif family affordable apartment community it is do we meet all the requirements of section 48. 48.1 we do uh do we meet all other applicable Township land use ordinance requirements do we require any variances no sir uh let's look at Mr Miller's letter dated I believe it's March 1st I'm going to go to page P three and I mentioned in my introduction that we're going to comply with the two letters other than as clarified during your testimony and that's what we're going to do now everybody the first one I want to clarify or ask you to address is on page three in the storm management section comment number 12 which states the applicant shall comply with requirements of the administrative code relating to Dam dam safety standards were receive written something in writing from D stating they are not applicable can you address that please sure so um the short answer is we are compant with the dam safety standards um the reason this comment was raised is the I mentioned the amount of fall that comes from the develop portion site into the Wetland area so Mr mer as a question said it plainly it's not something that we typically do so confirm that you're complying um under the D safety standards there's a section where they classify types of D depending on the way they're constructed the type of water that they actually impound cing facilities and classifi four being the say the lowest standard or the one the least amount of restrictions and that's what disqualifies as if it is a dam at all so under class four it's a permanent rule we don't have to get RB and all we have to really do is make sure that the amount of storm runoff that comes through our system it pass through that Spillway safely and with safety factor of 50% so 150% of the flow of the store management tax so so we can we will revise the calculations to include that analysis we've already done it and it's compliant so we do meet that standard and we don't need to get anything from D so we meet that standard you'll submit updated information to Mr Miller so that he can confirm that you meet that standard and that's how we're addressing that com as ex approval we'll have to okay can you point out to us about where the spillway is and where the outflow is so there's there's the main Spillway or main out outfall is is a storm M structure that's more or less a storm Inlet with a pipe figure and that's in the corner of the Basin and the outfall pipe lands in this wooded area here the emergency Spillway goes out towards the ditch that runs along the edge of the tracks so that's pointing towards uh the side of the site going to the nor the next comment is the next one comment 13 on page three which states that the applicant's engineer which is you shall coordinate with Mr Miller's offices on item relating to compliance with the stormw rules Mr shulo do we comply with all applicable stormw management rules we do I want to make sure that we get in the record that um this this comment sounds an OCC we just have to office make sure it's clear we we submitted detailed management calculations and Report Mr Miller's office reviewed it and it is compant manag rules he's asked a few questions but it's going to be clear that we are fully compant with both state which is referenc in R which is also referenc in okay how deep is that um detention Basin the total depth of water in the Bas is 2 feet and the the Basin itself is a little deeper than two feet yeah 3 and2 ft is a three okay does it does does the code require a fence around that or not no okay and there's no fence no it's a dry Bas so clear tra it's only a detention base and not a holding po yes might not be clear after tonight yeah I'm being fa when I put in my GPS to make sure I knew that there was any issues with getting here I gots whatever I live down by the yes um anything else on comment 13 Mr schula no okay comment 15 says an additional soil test is needed in Basin one which is out by the road correct yes small feature here all right is we'll provide that as a condition of approval comment number 19 in that same section on page three uh okay comment number 16 which I did not have Mark states that you will analyze the impacts of the groundwater mounding on the stability of the slope jent to the Basin presumably the larger Bas please address that sure so Mr Miller and I spoke about this the concern was generally that when stor infiltrates and it goes into the ground generally the ground spreads Lally H the water can't go down so it goes left and right when um Mr Miller was concerned that if it does that because of the slope on the side it maybe would start to seep out of the slope itself we did mounting analysis it's in a section of the stor management report that's portion that's again a state standard what we're going to do is condition of approval we know that it's not an issue we're going to create a graphic depiction of that that's more detailed to make sure Mr Miller's office can see that and review it and analyze it and confirm so we'll be compliant okay we remain compant comment 19 uh talks about you providing hydraulic grade line calculations Etc I won't get too technical I'll let you address that com so generally um Mr Miller raised this concern because wants to make sure that if we have a large storm event that's larger than the design storm that the pipes are are required to be designed too that it doesn't leave the site and end up where it's not supposed to anywhere else a neighboring property creep Road whatever so in the RSI as New Jersey residential site Improvement standards there's a section and this is what I Mr Kingsbury we uh respectfully request the condition be written to address there's a section under uh under RSI say 5 col 21- 7.2 parentheses C5 that has this generally this same type of standard in it but it's written more clearly as to what the requirement needs to be under the rsis which is what we have to comply with um this section this isn't out of the ordinance the comment Mr Miller made it was a practical comment it's a good comment so so make sure we will address that that in our revised response so we're proposing to address comment 19 by demonstrating that we comply with rsis the section you quote yeah generally what that section says is that is that correct yes that's correct okay that section says that if there's a localized condition that's a concern that's how you address it okay great next page um the next one I had was comment 29 on page four um this one we didn't talk about but I want to make sure for 28 um you asked for a wetland letter there was one issued in 2022 we provide a copy that line on the subed the line was approved and verifi by okay comment 29 ask for a lighting plan to be submitted it's my understanding that one was submitted with our site plan it was okay does the lighting plan comply with all applicable requirements and standards does that was all I had on Mr Miller's letter was there anything else that you had on Mr Miller's letter I had too will you comply with the other comments set forth in his letter other than just as as testify just now yes okay let's look briefly at Mr Taylor's letter and I begin there on page four and his letter is dated February 17th if I recall correctly yes um so the first comment that I have for you Mr shulo is comment number 14 which correctly points out that we propose a 5 foot wide asphalt walkway uh and he points out that the ordinance requires a 4 foot wide concrete walkway will we comply with that yeah we do do okay comment 15 states the rear yards of buildings enf back up the creek road and he asks us to address uh the appropriateness of a fence there can you show everyone where that is on the plan first of all on A1 sure it's the two buildings that are closest to creep road with the landscape buffer between them and creep and we're not proposing a fence there correct no no the F would be in the front yard something that could be done but we thought that it was better suited to be Landscaping okay can you give everyone idea of the of the landscaping that's proposed there generally I'm pull up another exhibit that this one was so this is exhibit a82 probably page two of exhibit A2 second sheet of exhibit 82 which to orient everyone this is Creek Road across the sheet here this is our driveway into the site this is the one of the buildings of the that I mentioned off she this is the landscape buffer as proposed this is the these are the species and locations that so those buildings will be well buffered and we we prefer Landscaping over a fence correct yes okay comment five in the landscape section which is on page five of Mr Taylor's letter uh talks about tree caliper can you address that comment please yeah so this the section that's that's referenced is generally the tree protection and rep portion of the ordinance so the ah1 ordinance or section of the ordinance generally replaces remainer parts of the ordinance it doesn't have any discussion about tree replacement when that ordinance was created the layout that shown on this plan generally was included in drafting of that ordinance we didn't have the detailed Landscaping but in the end we didn't propos and don't propose to do tree survey or tree replacement pursuant to this section of the ordinance because it's a cost generative measure um pursuant to the co regulations it's really not permitted to be imposed um but in the end what we came to a general agreement that talking to Mr Taylor that rather than go through as you can see anyway the ssy way that between the yield of Township desired and the available land area to try to replace the trees that can't physically fit so what we propos is reforestation in the form of planning of a mix of saplings um some smaller trees as discussed and a few shrubs that'll make up generally the balance of what would be reforestation requirment just in smaller food and the exact quantity I'm going to pull up the email because it came late Scott I me need you to confirm too so my understanding is it was going to be yeah five one and A4 inch caliber trees which will decide on locations in the field with Mr after construction during construction 10 1gallon container shrubs and 300 seedlings that's on right Scott um 10 five one gallon containers yeah I think you said trums on that but I think it was I think it's trees okay oh the smaller trees okay Y and we this is something Mr chairman we had a conversation with uh Mr spital and exchange some emails um for affordable housing projects uh the courts in the state have directed municipalities to not create unnecessarily cost generative uh items within those approvals reforestation has been identified as one of those so the applicant is has offered and and what we're we really don't have room to fully comply um with all the reforestation that would be required uh but are proposing about 3115 trees through seedlings and saplings and we believe that that's consistent generally with the intent if not the letter of the ordinance they would request a waiver from having to locate all of those trees um the one thing that I would that I would supplement is uh the time and expense to just go and Survey those they really don't have any flexibility to be able to move buildings to preserve trees in the center of the site because of the program necessary to develop the 72 required affordable housing units uh the one thing that was also identified uh with Mr spel that I assume the applicant would agree to in lie of that tree survey that they would stake the clearing limits at the field walk that with our office and Mr Miller's office so if there are any desirable large specimens near the limit of clearing that we could try to work the tree protection fencing around those um th that's really the only place is that we have flexibility to try to preserve some of those larger specimens on the site so as as long as the board agrees we believe that that solution in those conditions would be generally consistent with the affordable housing parameters in which we're trying to operate and the intent of our ordinance and we have no objection to that condition so if we eventually get to approval anything that says subject to Mr Miller and Mr Taylor's approval you happy with it all no I wouldn't say that Mr oh okay that's right give it a shut I wouldn't be doing my job if I agree with the condition that broad okay but certainly on that issue we have no objection make nor that he would be happy yeah okay no we have no objection with the condition as stated by Mr Taylor and we'll we'll take those as they come okay we'll deal with them as they come those types of issues um that was all the questions I had uh for Mr shulo does anybody else have any questions for Mr shulo I do so um um Basin one is that will not have a fence around it either no that will very shallow okay and then um if there were to be a walking path around Basin 2 would there be to be a fence there because there's a walking path but we would put the the walkway not on top of the Basin so it wouldn't be kind okay so it's definitely around the outside that okay um and even if it even if it did end up on the top I'm not familiar of any requirement in either the storm water management rigs um that would require a fence in that location I only say that in case there needs to be flexibility with where that goes from a grading standpoint or clearing stand and there is no standard in the storm RS of requirement okay I just want that on record yeah okay thank you that would be it thank you thank you Kathy anybody have any other questions if not Mr shulo isn't leaving well let me let me question came to mind Mr shulo are you um are you the guy dealing with the um the EV charging stations and placement of those yes generally yes you're providing for eight is that expandable as the years go past yeah the market demands absolutely yes on that subject I saw on I'm trying to put my hands on it right now um I saw where four of them are where are the other four so we have there are well it's a total of six in the middle of the site and then another one they're all in the central part of the site there's six on on the North side or sorry the west side and one or two sorry on I got backwards six on the east side two on the West Side okay I'm I'm looking at co11 you familiar with that yeah okay I I don't I only see four can I come up and show you yeah please just show me where they are each each pedestal has two charging P oh so that's eight yeah so that that one you can see there Center between the two spaces okay all right you know there were two on each one thank you thanks Jay I just you know this is a bit of a well and never mind I'm not going to make the comment okay well we'll continue uh if anyone has any other questions for Mr schul he'll be here uh our next witness is Ed spite good evening Mr spel can you begin by telling us what your title is with the Walters Group sure um that's spel uh vice president development for the Walters Group been with Walters in this capacity for over 20 years and are you personally familiar with this proposed Community yes I am and if you've been involved in the oversight of the planning that has led us to this evening yes I have can you tell everyone who is the Walters Group in the context of their experience with affordable housing certainly the Walter group is as you said an affable housing could you could you use the microphone please we have to record this that okay uh for about the past 15 or 15 or so years uh we've been exclusively focused on developing affordable housing we handle everything Soup To Nuts that is the development which we're here for tonight the approval process uh we handle the construction for our mgc and we handle the management aspect of it which includes the leasing uh the maintenance and the compliance will these 72 units that are proposed here in H or operate similar to the other communities that you have in New Jersey yes they will and roughly how many other similar communities does the walers group currently own I would say we have approximately 2,000 total units and I would say um two two and a half dozen different communities uh will were you present during my introductory comments yes I was were they factually accurate to the best of your knowledge yes they were and so will the residents here be individuals and families that meet the income El eligibility restrictions yes and uh will uh this community be administered in accordance with all applicable rules including what's known as uck uniform housing affordability controls yes it will okay and will this community have units that are restricted for moderate income low income and very low income individuals yes it will and those are defined terms under the affordable housing rules correct yes and there are certain income limits that those people have to meet to be eligible for those units right yes and there's a certain percentage of units that each of those have to occupy correct for example half the units have to be low and very low and the other half can be moderating correct that's correct and at least 133% of all of the units have to be eligible for just very low- income individuals correct yes and those aren't your rules those are State rules that's correct and those are also consistent with the settlement agreement with fairshare housing center and the court order that was entered enforcing that settlement agreement or approving that in settlement agreement yes it is okay um can you explain briefly to everyone the tenant selection process how the pant selection process works um sure so we have an approved uh affirmative fair housing marketing plan that something that gets approved by the state of New Jersey and what happens is during the construction period uh we'll start to send out um notice to interested uh residents and you know start to compile list often times with the excuse me municipalities help and website uh as we get closer to I'll say within 30 days of our first CEO we'll send out a more uh formal notification and advise uh folks of an upcoming Lottery we'll conduct the lottery um and during that or shortly therea we'll have a much more rigorous screening process um credit check criminal background grounds income and that uh process there gets done by our own compliance team it gets done by a third party and it also gets done by the state of New Jersey and our tax credit investor following that there's an annual uh recertification process every year and in the recertification process does that confirm compliance with the eligibility requirements yes and so those tenants are selected in accordance with uniform rules of apply to every municipality that has communities like this that's correct okay so if I have a friend who wants to rent a place at this community in hesport do I just call you and get them in absolutely not how does it work it we're there's there's no way to the affordable housing La does not allow any preferential treatment just as if you know it just doesn't allow it so is it randomly selected through a lottery process from all those pools of candidates for all those candidates that meet the applicable eligibility requirements yes okay can you tell everyone um what amenities will be proposed here uh sure so on the exterior we have a Tot Lot uh which typically has a swing set a jungle gym for lack of a better term uh we have we're proposing grills benches tables um things of that area and again kind of in the vicinity of the Tot Lot and our community uh our clubhouse within the clubhouse there's our leasing office there's our community room there's a fitness center um there's a couple uh there's an area for computers and I'll say that space is roughly 2500 square feet or so so that's kind of the overview of the exterior and the interior amenities one of the comments in Mr Taylor's letter was that we consider adding grills and tables and we'll do that will we will we not okay what how will the Walters Group handle property management for this site sure so we as I said we handle everything from soup the nuts the management includes all of the different functions we have 247 um maintenance on call we have many communities in the area as most of you know our community down the street in Lumberton Delano amp so we have a lot of staff that it's in this immediate vicinity and we will manage these just like we do all of those okay the last question I have relates to the walk I think Mr McKay brought up um were you present during that question yes I was walking walking path oh you're going to get I was going to on the sidewalk to the sidewalk to Martin Highway got it yeah so why aren't we proposing a sidewalk along Long Creek Road towards Martin Highway if you know yes I do so as you said earlier we've been working on this for many years and transportation was something that was uh very important depending on the funding source that we were were seeking particularly the 9% tax credit realm uh that required public transportation to be with a half mile as a as a cve class this particular funding opportunity does not have that requirement however we still I mean it's just good planning to try to have um to be near public transportation so we looked at uh having a sidewalk toward the railroad bridge we didn't think that was a safe option as you folks have mentioned and and observed it it's barely safe for vehicles to get through much less encouraging pedestrian traffic through there um similarly there were discussions about well what what could you do through the back of the property through the industrial part um we're more than happy to make a connection there the problem that we ran into there was within the industrial park there's no sidewalks in there and we didn't think that encouraging pedestrian traffic into an industrial complex that has the railroad cars going through and the trucks and all we didn't think that was a smart option either the other thing I would say kind of anecdotally is with the exception of maybe our community in Lanka which is immediately adjacent to the Light Rail station most I would say most pretty much all of our residents have their own car they do not rely on public transportation and so you you know in a Suburban setting like this in a Suburban setting like our Lumberton Community which is behind the Walmart um there's just not a lot of walking going on there okay thank you Mr spel any questions for Mr spel yes I I have one I just I think I think you said the answer indirectly all 72 units are going to be rental no for sale right correct okay just want to make sure we all know and understand that sure and what um you mentioned about the screening process for the applicants they do criminal background checks what what does it take to not let me come in there as a tenant not me personally but you know what I'm saying what I can say is that if you've been convicted of a crime and Damen as my attorney probably knows the definition of crime in New Jersey better than I do don't count on it well suffice it to say if you've been convicted of a crime that rules you know that immediately rules you out right then and there it's a very stringent process uh again something that's done by by us by the state and by a third party to ensure that we all have the most quality tenants we can possibly have I mean I think you by a crime felonies are probably out but what about misdemeanors I don't know about MISD absolutely a felony okay thanks Miss Kelly I know you had a question uh yes I don't know if this is the right time to ask it um you had stated in some place that I read that you were going to put fencing along the back of your property at the railroad is that still going to happen I'm going to ask Mr shulo to answer that if I may so the the area that fencing is going to be proposed is along this Eastern property line adjacent to the industrial Department we're going to have a board on board or vinl fence that runs along that line is it going to turn and come down a little bit from down toward fre road yeah there's no intention to do that now because part of that uh industrial park and does there and they also have the train that goes back there for one a siding of that train goes back to one of their buildings in the back well we'll certainly want to create the most effective screen so we can look at returning that if that if that's the case okay I think we were under the impression that that was all of a need to screen the the industrial part this property immedately adjacent the south is sing resal so we're leaving Woods along that edge well the point is if you return it there's a sort of a line of sight that you might still see things yes right then my second question is um you mentioned there will probably be children I assume in this uh development yes uh where are the children going to be getting the school bus where is the school bus stop proposed we have not had any interaction yet with the school board but I would imagine that it's if it's not in the site then I would imagine it's it's at the same or similar location is where the Mason Mason's wood students geted up is that typically dictated by the school district or J okay so we don't pick they pick okay and the answer to your question was yes it was okay just I want to make sure because again we're recording so yes okay couple questions as well on is in the dport village that we have here that Walter group has done the the new tow houses there MH by the way they do look very good I'm hoping that these look as well as that uh are we looking to have an eight foot high fence I know we do have one over Davenport Village is this going to be a six foot or eight foot uh 8 foot high fence do we know yet so let me put it to you this way I'll let I'll let Mr shulo answer it but to the extent your ordinance limits it to six feet we did not apply for a variance for that if the board wants an 8ft fence it has the authority to Grant a variance as long as there are sufficient reasons but we didn't require reest any variances most towns limited to 6 fet I don't know what you know Kathy I'm sure but I don't know what your ordinance says about when this development over at Davenport Village there that was even before my time and that's forever ago um they allowed the 8 foot highs because of the fact of the residents that live behind that off a Patriot Drive right I just wasn't sure because I didn't notice anything in regards to height in any of the letters it it's shown as six feet thank you Scott on that rear is there okay um let me see if there was anything else uh where is the Tot Lot in here I apologize on the far right that maroon box this here yes okay okay and then um I guess a question is do they allow pets here like dogs are they they do I believe I believe we limit them to a certain size but yes we the only reason I question that is because I saw a dog in your picture okay so I was wondering how that that works with the the load of mods um is there any kind of dog stations that will be here for clean up yes we do have stations with the bags and uh receptacles okay for that yes all right all right thank you very much thank you um I recall at some point maybe it was when we did the public um session the the resident to the east the single family home I believe there was conversation about there being a pool and there's some concerns and I believe there was talk about offense on that side if if maybe we can go back and look at our notes or oh yeah listen I recall something if the board wants to return offense there I'm sure we can do that I know she expressed some concerns because there's a pool there and liability and so there's probably a fence then if there's a pool I would think so right so yeah as long again most towns have separation requirements between fenes I don't know where that fence is but we're happy to look at putting a fence along that well we wouldn't do it on the lot line because we have to clear streets to do it we would have to pull it in yeah and it would become the back edge of the of the Tot Lot or just off we we can look at that I would also add that in one of our original iterations we showed a very large building right right of her feedback was if there's anything that you could do to have a lower scale thankfully able to have no building immediately right okay H okay sir I have one more question and I don't know if you're going to get to it but the Fire Marshall uh did not approve this because you needed another fire hydrant within the uh we we we didn't get a fire Marshall's letter so I'm not familiar with that emailed it or at least I did thanks Paul okay so let me let me let me so so cost has been CL kind enough to give me the February 28th letter from a Fire official Meyers dat of February 28th and it says quote complex needs to have another fire hydrogen in the development to give the fire department a second water supply this is a oneway in one way out and the fire department cannot run a tanker shuttle because of the railroad bridge end quote so Mr shulo is it correct that we have two hydrants already we do and you'll speak to the Fire official and address this comment yes be clear on the second part of the comment about not being a to run a tanker shuttle because of he means they crossing here not because of got that's we have right now there's fire Hy at the driveway one in the corner and the back we'll work that okay that's comping with rsis it's actually more than needed by rsis so what's compliant with rsis the fire Hy layout okay it's just for everyone's benefit is rsis the Statewide uniform set of rules for all residential development and yes and it does two things it makes it so that we have a minimum standard to comply with but also imposes stuff that the municipality can't ask for Beyond right and it's intended to create a uniform set of rules for all for res excuse me Sor that's okay for residential development for all towns correct yes does this plan comply with all applicable rsis standards it does okay um so uh Mr chairman we would suggest that as a condition of approval that the applicant address this comment with with Mr Myers in the very unlikely event we can't resolve that comment with him we would come back before the board but I can't imagine that will be necessary um in regards to the Sewer is there uh with M Hol mua is there any type of pump station on this facility or has that been addressed with matol mua how that's going to be factored so in at the intersection of wetherille court and Creek Road is a manhole okay we're going to connect to that and there sufficient not have to have any pump station for the site okay good to know we have a good amount of fall across the site any other questions from Mr spy or Mr schula just just a clarification when you say there's no um preference not even for veterans with regards to uh I believe we can give a I'd have to check and see there are a lot of communities where we do give a Veterans Preference I don't think that we would be prohibited from doing that here here um and so if we're able to we're more than happy to we do it in a lot of places we were I was just talking about preference in terms of friends or family or and it had come up in conversation with some people and you know it be nice to do something you know for the veterans and just somehow we could Market that particular fact to absolutely um I guess one of my last questions is that I see um and I've been here through the years in regards to the bosniac and their basketball courts coming to the board and they have all the approvals I see that there is Landscaping that will be between those properties um is there any type of fencing that is going to be there so that no wandering into their basketball courts or I mean has that been thought of Mr schula are we proposing offense there we are not okay thank you thank you I have a question for Mr SP um you mentioned that going to be on site management and 24hour we so we have folks on site uh our leasing office our management staff and then separate and apart from that we have 247 maintenance we'll have maintenance folks on the property they might not necessarily be on the property 247 but they are in the immedate and the the manage the managers themselves are Community Association manager certified or or they are okay thank you thank you uh unless there are other questions our next witness is Mr Donovan who's our architect who just provide some brief testimony regarding the buildings uh I'll I'll keep going unless I'm asked not to uh Mr Donovan why don't you step up share the microphone let me do this got so so Mr Donovan are you a principal with Donovan Architects I am can you briefly review your professional background for the board sure I've been the owner of Donan Architects for 19 years I've um spoke uh in front of multiple minicipal throughout the state um my license is in good standing I'm licensed in New Jersey Delaware Maryland and Pennsylvania okay and did you prepare the architectural plans that were submitted with the site plan application I did you design the buildings that are proposed for this community here in hesb and is exhibit 82 a color rendering of three three color renderings of the proposed buildings yes um can you using exhibit A2 give everyone just an overview of the proposed architecture uh including building materials story height and orientation sure so the first um first view is from of the front entrance and from creep Road and we have excuse me Mike I'm just going to ask you to slide around a little bit so as many people can see oh sure thank you so you could see that it's uh this is the Landscaping plantings taken right from the landscape plan there's a there's a nice buffer there we have two types of building here we have a what we're calling a town home style apartment which is a direct entry it's a basically two and a half Stories the there's a town over a flat and the three-bedroom is is a twostory unit that's over a flat so that's where you you say the two and a half stories and then there are um Garden style apartments that have a common entrance and um those are towards the back of the the site so the visual impact from the from Creek Road is this um small scale town home style apartments that look really in with the are um um so this is the view um we were asked to to look at the scale of that that building in particular and um I think it addresses it well it breaks the scale down with material changes and that was one of the comments um and then there's the back of the the two smaller scale buildings um along along this side and then I'm going to go to the next exhibit and the next exhibit is just page two of A2 everybody okay so this is the town home style apartments and this this is where that Master Suite that I'm saying two and a half story there there's a master bedroom up in that that gets your third bedroom and this this is a flat unit one story unit and um it's designed in particular to get accessibility and the Deep ress students are the ones that are ground floor which are either adaptable or accessible so it's a it's a it's a we've done a few communities with similar um type of of um style units and I was the architect of the of theability and so what what you see on that page which building is that shelling on the site plan um that is showing site plan's right in front of you right behind that board yeah that's the 12 so where that's one closer to the road probably that's the one that we were seeing okay building D I believe that building D okay all right next page please sure and then towards the back of the building there's three um that contain threeory unit in the back facing the industrial so the front still are that two story and very in keeping with the um what we're calling town home style apartments and then this is an attached Community Building um excuse me excuse me Mr Don yes Bu you're talking about building a b and c you said they're facing the industrial well no no I'm sorry the fronts of it are facing AR yeah that's what the back the back up to okay got it and you still enter from the front Okay to to that so the only portion that's three stories is is that portion that's closest to the industrial park correct okay can you using this image give everyone just an idea of the exterior building materials that you're going to use yeah so we're we're looking at using lap siding and um at the Bas and goes up story okay uh there was a question yes ma'am are all the buildings going to be the same identical uh color scheme or there will be differentiation between the buildings yeah we were going to do the same color scheme throughout it has a it has two two side color the uh Mr Taylor's letter ask and I think the chairman asked us to address this uh ask us to identify the bedroom mix in other words how many one bedroom two bedroom and three bed units do we so thereal 14 of them are one boms which is 19.4 and then 43 two-bedroom apartments which is 59.7% and 15 three bedrooms which is 20.8% and that's important because you need to be under 20% one bedrooms and you need to be over right this is me you have requirements right those are that complies with the required bedroom mix for affordable housing which is listed have you reviewed section 104-98 of the HB ordinance yes I have does this does this uh does your proposed architecture comply with the design standards in that section of the ordinance it does it does we we had um buildings that have 20 un we reduced those none of the buildings are over 200t long and great uh will all rooftop uh Mechanicals HVAC equipment be screen we we will the um the town home style Apartments they'll be um on the backs of the buildings and and they'll be they'll be mounted to the backs of the building and then we will have a well here be in the roof for the for the umart okay I believe the Mini Splits yes correct on the the new buildings that yeah yeah they're they're great energy efficient and get multiple zones there can you go back to page two please sure or or maybe it's page one the there was a comment in Mr Taylor's letter asking you to just explain this one yes um the left side of building D which I think is shown on the left side of that page one of exhibit two yes right over here can you just explain the architectural detail on that elevation to address Mr Taylor's comment yeah so we have is that also on the exhibit right below you at your feet um this Ed right here yes well maybe use that one if what whatever one you think shows it better to explain it yeah um maybe this one does because because the landcap buffer so you know Shield some of the building but but this has a um every unit has a private balcony so it has private balcony and then it has a smaller c in there and um Stone and so it's very uh it's a broken up scale it's two story I mean it's two and a half story but it feels very low minimally impact the thank you that's all the questions I have for Mr Donovan Mr chairman any questions Mr Donovan uh you've got what three different styles of units you got your one bedroom your two bedroom and three bedroom correct uh what's the square footage of each um interior they they need to be um a minimum of 650 and they exceed those I mean the one bedroom 650 the two-bedroom 850 and the three bedroom 1150 for the affordable they all exceed that okay thank you and they they I'd like to mention they do have private balconies they have inunit laundry um have a big open concept we have a you know U Walter's group is committed to the environment and has you know ex seeds the insulation values that are required so a very green product are the uh when you do metering for uh electricity uh and even water how how do you handle that um we would we would have individual electric meter and then the water would be um paid by the owner you know that we don't have an individual all right all right so the water's common and you take care of that with the rental fees but the homeowner has the has their own electric bill and and gas and gas and and G I guess yeah shouldn't leave that out gas is serviced yeah yeah not even 100% sure there's going to be gu so it could be an all electric yeah it could be an all electric uh in your community room uh that you have here the is that second floor a usable one no it's just a it's just a it's a it's just aesthetic yeah yeah we we we created a volume there because it's like Gathering space so so it has big high high cealing in there so it feels like two stories but it is so is this um Community Center used uh for obviously the people that live at this community only correct is it uh does it have like internet access for anybody that needs to go into and maybe use something like that um what is the purpose of this community room like what do they offer in that um there's there's there's a fitness center a community Lounge for Gathering okay Gathering space the leasing office is there there's a leasing suite for the full-time staff okay to be there um yeah so you I I don't think you could that Community yeah you could just use the community space so it's similar to the one that da then correct okay thank you yeah very is it exactly like the one in Lumberton is I believe standing right but it's very very similar but I mean all the units are are similar to correct there with the self closing drawers and the air filtration system yeah yes yes the this um town home style is almost almost identical you know so it's the same product that would be here yeah we we keep Reinventing and and and and developing taking out any you know any works or anything but but it is essentially similar product would we have to have that big red ugly thing that they have what was the big gra they have when you pull in there's this big red pipe oh it might be a stamp I don't know one of them I have a question please um the buildings e and f that go along Creek Road there are they two story buildings or what's yeah they are they are this type of of building just two stories yeah I I mean it you could technically call two and a half stories because that under attic but but it really does look like two stories yes okay thank you uh any other questions for architect Mr Donovan hearing none I'll ask our traffic engineer who's our Final witness uh the step for John mccor thank you Mike counselor yes I do have just one question for one of your professionals approximately what's the best guesstimate how many occupants will be in the 72 units I know it's a guesstimate but uh ma if anyone knows it's probably Mr Donovan or Mr spel okay uh in a community like this the average I mean you have the blend of one twos and threes but we average about um 2.3 per unit when you kind of run it all together people okay and Mr deluka maybe before we get um down the road on traffic um with Mr McCormack um I know that we specifically touched on a couple of the items in our report um can you guys confirm that any of the other items are items that you will comply with yeah let me uh thank you for that Scott I believe the answer is yes let me just check my my copy very quickly um yeah the only other thing I would note is that comment E1 asked for a lighting design and we have submitted that so we've already addressed that but um we yeah we just have presented and I think um because I know that you guys had presented yeah yeah so yeah we have no objection to the remainder of your any of your comments we just tried to address uh those that ask for Testimony or clarification so no we don't have any objection to your comments and the lights are all fully shielded low glare full cut off and 3,000 degrees Kelvin correct Mr schula it will be so yeah so the testimony was that we comply with all the applicable lighting standards if if is that correct Mr standard that request that just made isn't a standard any is usually desired so we will comply it's not already I believe I believe it already does yeah so can I just slow us down so Mr kingsb and I get that right so what are we agreeing to do relating to the light well the lights are all right I was just saying we had a comment about the lighting should be presented and I was just asking you guys to confirm which I already knew that they are 3,000 Dee Kelvin and full cut off to minimize any glare off site they are there you go the lighting plan was now presented thank you Mr McCormack um may' one more question I think I think uh number eight on page three of five I think is uh important in regards to uh our office which has enforcement issues um so it says the applicant should discuss resident limitations regarding the use of porches for storage grilling Etc what I'd like to find out um is that the porches as beautiful as they are when your uh tenants move in um are there any type of paperwork or anything that discloses to them that you know they can't hang their laundry out there or they can't have Grill whatever the case may be yes that's a very good question and that is something that we enforce I I'm not certain if it's in our lease I believe it's in our lease but it's something we are very cognizant of because this community looks needs to look like you know the first day was built every day and so we do you know we strongly limit that um we don't all on the port or laundry and things like that okay so yes the reason I ask is because there's obviously several of us in our Enforcement office that would um would appreciate that once this gets to that point is to maybe have some documentation so that if there's something that has to be enforced we know exactly what we are stating to uh the tenant or to uh the people on site so if that could be sent to to us or to Mr Taylor uh that would be helpful uh down the road in the future sure we' be happy to do that thank you along the same lines what what will the tenants do with bicycles for instance which a lot of people have so it's a very good question Mr M we talked about that during the initial concept phase and discussions bike racks um provided throughout the site we have one next to the top lot we have one between each of these buildings that are against the industrial park we have one in an island that's against this building and another one on the other side of the top so you've got approved places for storage yes yes um as picking up on Mrs nukem's question TV Wi-Fi how is that is it underground wiring or like you can't put they can't start putting like satellite dishes satellite dishes and everything how's that handled that I don't that's so so so there are going to be a set of rules and regulations that apply to all tenants and those will be incorporate into the lease okay we'll provide a copy of those to miss Nukem so that if they're violated uh she'll know it they obviously going to one of those rules are going to be they require they comply with all applicable Township requirements so if you adopt an ordinance it says you can't do something then the tenants won't be allowed to violate it just like any homeowner wouldn't be allowed to violate right well I guess the most offending item what the chairman referred to would be satellite dishes yeah somebody moves in wants to stick a satellite dish on their on their porch yeah so I I don't know if hesport has a Prohibition against satellite dishes if you don't then this community should be treated the same however uh I don't know if you don't know policy is regarding satellite dises do we yeah so legally you can't yeah I I don't do we have I I understand your concern it's the aesthetic concern I don't want to just blank it agree to because I'm not sure that's an enforcable condition but uh yeah it's not it's a FCC right that's what I'm thinking so uh I think we're going to have a general requirement that you comply with all applicable laws I don't think there's anything specific about satellite dishes did you also say that in the waste uh area uh waste management area recyclables will also be in that area and and how often will they be picked up like especially you know will it be like daily pickup or so the yes recyclables will be there for the first part of the question and the frequency of pickup will depend on the frequency of the need in the beginning of the job or when it's first occupied they have a typical weekly pickup for everything and if it demands more because this community recycles more than others then it will be handled accordingly and in this case I think Mr sh talked about it they'll use a compactor which will help the efficiency of the trash pickup unlike many communities it's all in one location so that that can be used you won't have cans all over the community that are poorly maintained and an ey swerve it's all in one place it's all enclosed everyone has to bring their tracks to that location that's the downside if you live far away from it you got to walk or drive in your car most people drive but it's a much better alternative from our client's perspective and it's better for the town because it's it looks better it's more efficient and we can Compact and recycle better they've done very well over Davenport uh Village they really have we've not had really any ever issues any of that over there and that indidual dump this this will function better it's a huge investment to have centralized trash area well beyond what anyone anywhere does and a substantial investment make they found a lot of success with it we have found out that through the many years is that the tenants that live uh in a lot of these places here also are very respectful due to the fact is that they don't want to put themselves in Jeopardy either of doing anything wrong um so I have found through the years that the village uh dport Village has done very well with trying to keep compliance with most everything that um you know groups in this case or before it was the dases um they tend to keep compliance so one of the things I'll mention and I'll represent to this to the board I'm an attorney so I can't provide testimony but uh Mr schul can confirm this the uh the walers group runs a very tight ship and one of the things that they do is they meet annually with police chief you miss Nukem will be invited to that and we just meet with the town once a year or more if needed I don't think it'll be needed just to say how are we doing do you have concerns and that's part of our they do that in every community and that happens and I think your Township officials know that you know you hear a lot of applications and you hear a lot of promises as a planning board right and sometimes those promises are fulfilled many times they're not so I can't promise you Perfection but I can promise you that this company has a very long record of very few complaints and interaction with zoning enforcement police make sure if there are any issues that are addressed as best we reasonably can and I think that's important to mention what is the uh trash pickup is that going to be once a week or you it's as needed as needed M but not at 3:00 in the morning no what are the hours so as you can imagine everyone be clear everyone that lives here has a job and they work so they're out most of the time during the day some will work my shift obviously but they do it during the hours when there's not as many residents on the Su during the day during normal hours so it's going to be no different than the trash truck running through the public sector rest of the municipality okay thank you thanks all right Mr McCormick are you sure no no I'm not so so we're going to try anyway why don't start mic by just identifying yourself telling everybody who you are very good uh good evening everyone my name is John McCormack I'm a partner with Dynamic traffic I am a New Jersey PE specializing in traffic engineering I've been doing so for 30 years um I've been in front of as Jay said dozens probably hundreds of boards uh just like yours I've also sat uh in Scott and and Marty's chair as the uh Township traffic consultant for for various boards Mr chairman we ask that the board accept Mr next any questions from the board if not Mr McCormack's acceptable Mr McCormack did you prepare the traffic impact study dated December 22nd 2023 I did and was the primary purpose of that report to evaluate the potential traffic impact of this community on the surrounding roadway Network that's correct and is it also correct that when you have a site plan that meets all ordinance requirements that offsite traffic is not a legitimate basis for denying site application that is correct nonetheless every Town cares about traffic so we wanted to address that for the C pport correct nonetheless can you share your analysis Absolutely I'll be uh brief I'll provide a brief summary of the of the traffic study and then obviously as questions or anything comes up at the end we we'll go through that what I'll talk about is the access uh which Jay mentioned excuse me the existing traffic conditions surrounding uh the project the traffic generation of this project uh we analyze the intersections um our driveway the Mason Woods roads and even the outer limits meaning M and hesport mount lauro and then we'll talk about the parking so just getting into it I'll describe the access from a traffic engineering perspective uh as Jay mentioned it's a single driveway along Creek Road there's a center minion uh being provided that provides a nice safety barrier between entering an exiting traffic uh and the driveway is located almost dead in the middle uh between the two Mason Woods roads it's a great spot it's offset from both of them almost identically almost 300 ft and most importantly from my point of view it's located at the crest of what's a slight Hill in Creek Road so the the slight distance uh of the driveway two and from that driveway is very good because of that Crest uh we'll talk about the traffic volumes a little bit um we we conducted traffic volume counts out here along Creek Road and at the four intersections of M the two from m woods and then down at hesport Mount Laurel um basically uh during the weekday morning and weekday evening that those are the peak hours that we analyze uh industry standard analysis uh for a traffic study so during those two peak hours Creek Road has about 150 cars an hour going back and forth uh in the morning believe it or not it's almost dead on 50/50 whether they're going north or south on Creek uh in the evening the 4:30 hour if you will uh it's about 60% coming south but only about 150 cars in an hour I'll just put that into perspective a little bit Mar Highway has 1,200 cars an hour and hesport mount War Road has 800 cars an hour so just to kind of show you where Creek Road Traffic volume 150 cars an hour uh slots in in the neighborhood um we'll touch on the traffic generation of the project right we talked about the 72 units what you've probably heard Traffic Engineers say is they use a standard industry uh tool the it trip generation manual to estimate traffic for all kinds of projects affordable apartments being one of them uh when you look at the it uh guidelines and you look at the estimates for this project uh during the weekday morning it estimates 32 new trips that includes nine trips coming into the project and 23 trips exiting the project very similarly in the weekday afternoon you see 33 trips is the it estimate 19 entering return trip from work and then 14 exiting as people come and go more often uh in the afternoon so these 32 and 33 trips in an hour uh is relatively minimal uh it is well below the industry threshold of 100 peak hour trips which is a number that's used by do and numerous agencies throughout the state to identify a a project that has has a significant increase in traffic or just identifies a threshold as to when a traffic analysis you know should be conducted so again we're well below that we did uh still conduct the traffic analysis uh even with the 30 some odd trips an hour which is really only one car every few minutes coming or going uh just to put a little bit of perspective on that as well Mason Woods across the street it's about 32 some odd single family homes uh when you look at the projections of that traffic it's almost identical it's like 26 trips in the morning 34 trips in the evening so it's really very similar uh substantially similar level of activity coming off of the two the two sites across the road from each other uh the intersection analysis um as we discussed early even though it's really not required because we are't as of right we understand uh the importance of of Creek Road and and the concerns at at at least the one end the m theor end so when we conduct our our traffic analysis um basically uh you come up with a a level of service every intersection analysis identifies a level of service for the critical turning movements uh at an intersection and a level service similar to grading in the school uh is graded in a through F uh a being the best and F being uh like a failure condition at a movement so we'll start with Creek and M so at Creek and all the levels of service are acceptable uh exiting Creek on Tamar is the most difficult move at that intersection as you would imagine however none of the moves during the peak hours are Level service f with the construction of this project and the additional traffic all be it only a few trips in an hour 30 some odat trips an hour this intersection maintains the exact same level of service as in the Nob condition so the traffic generation from this project is really has no perceptible impact at that intersection because we're splitting some some of our traffic goes north on Creek some go south we're only adding about 13 trips is the estimate to that intersection then when you go back and you consider that M has 1,200 cars going up and down on an hourly basis the 13 trips is about 1% it's negligible however we understand the condition of the curve and the under and the overpass I'll call it just before the intersection those conditions result in limited geometry limited sight line uh so we have in our report we have a recommendation for a very simple signing and striping Improvement that we think the town should consider uh the county would have to approve it that intersection is County jurisdiction but it's a very simple signing and striping Improvement the signing would be uh basically some vertical uh clearance signs on the bridge there's there's nothing on the bridge that's says what the clearance is on the bridge uh object marker signs which are little reflector signs on the sides of the bridge those are not there either turn warning signs out on M just to give drivers an alert that when you make this turn you're going to have to do it slowly it's narrow it's curving so there's a few things that we think as far as signs uh that that would provide a significant safety Improvement uh additionally there's some striping adjustments that we think could be made uh simple EDG line Stripes as we go through this curve uh a center line extension like the dotted center lines if you've seen those before that go through the underpass uh believe it or not I know someone said that you can't get two cars through the underpass at one time you can uh you have to be going slow and you have to be cognizant of the situation I think that marking this Center Line would give you an even split of the 20 foot wide opening that that that underpass provides um and then some additional word markings just like where you have the stop sign a stop word marking a slow stop ahead things like that all add to driver awareness uh and are very simple very simple to do so we think those improvements uh I think should be considered uh to in order to improve not only the existing condition uh which could use that Improvement but also the condition when we have our residents down the road uh I'll jump down to the bottom of Creek Road Creek and SP intersection uh again all the movements at this intersection operate with acceptable levels of service they are all level of service C or better uh again they maintain the exact levels of service as the no build condition because remember we're only putting about 19 trips down to that intersection in a peak hour when you consider the 800 vehicles that are at that intersection the hesport intersection we're talking about adding two to 3% to that number which is negligible uh probably most important is the intersections right around our development the Mason woods and the weather Hill intersections uh there is absolutely no change to the intersections because of this development the levels of service there as you would imagine are levels of service a they are excellent there's you know it's just the neighborhood traffic that comes through there remember we're sending about 13 trips past Mason woods and we're sending about 19 trips past weather Hill Court that's about one car every three to five minutes uh during the peak hours so that's that's just to give you an order magnitude of the traffic impact on Creek Road the site driveway as you would imagine operates excellent level Service A and B uh remember we have 30 some odd trips in a peak hour coming and going there's only 150 cars on Creek Road up and down the site driveway is going to operate efficiently um I'll touch on the safety of the site driveway I started with where the driveway is located and the sight lines that's how we gauge uh safety of a of an intersection primarily is is how well can the drivers see oncoming traffic because we're located at the top of the hill and because Creek Road is relatively straight there's excellent sight lines in both direction we typically go excuse me go to the ashto uh site distance criteria ashto is the American Association of State Highway Transportation officials it is an industry standard guide book for for Street design intersection design they set forth a design speed of 30 mph for Creek Road a little factor of safety on top of the 25 mph post speed limit basically we're looking for about 300 ft of sight distance in each direction for drivers exiting our project the sight lines in both directions far exceed the 300 foot requirement set forth by ashow looking to the left you can see well beyond weather Hill Court and looking to the right you can see well beyond Mason Woods Lane which those each are about 300 ft from our driveway and I'll touch briefly on the parking uh Jay mentioned it we're providing 102 122 parking spaces uh eight of which are EV six of which are Ada uh the ah1 Zone requires 1.8 parking spaces per unit at 72 units 130 spaces required as Jay mentioned the state law requires EV spaces but also in that requirement it allows that the EV spaces can a credit can be taken against the requirement so the 130 spaces are required we have the eight EV spaces you can take that credit because they count as two spaces in the eyes of the state so the the requirement here is 122 spaces and that is the the parking Supply that we provide so we satisfy the zoning requirement additionally we looked at it as far as uh making sure parking was was uh was satisfactory it just like they have a traffic generation manual they have parking generation manual uh they estimate one space uh per unit which would require 72 parking spaces for this project we have 122 we think honestly I think the one space per unit is a little bit light um we have 122 uh and then also it recommends looking at other developments uh surrounding similar developments uh we've worked with Walters for 13 15 years now maybe even longer uh and we've looked that multiple developments of theirs uh I specifically have numbers on the four in Ocean County neighboring Ocean County we count the parking at night we actually go out there and count the number of cars uh at night is when most people are home for the evening and that's when the parking demand is highest so we've counted those those four sites the average of those four sites is 1.4 cars per unit that would uh equate to about 100 spaces at this project again we're providing 122 spaces at this project so we are very comfortable and very confident uh that the parking Supply is adequate just a brief summary the access uh our driveways properly spaced between Mason woods and weather Hill uh there's a center median to safely separate entering and exiting traffic it operates with an excellent level of service as well as excellent sight lines the traffic generation is minimal one car every few minutes in and out which is substantially similar to the level of activity you have coming off of Mason woods and the parking as I just mentioned we satisfy the ah1 we exceed the estimate from it and we exceed the actual demands of similar Walters projects that's a quick summary of traffic thank you Mr McCormack any questions from Mr mccor Mr McCormack speed limit on Creek Road is 25 posted say it again speed living on Creek Road is 25 as posted yes and you're aware of the two speed bumps most definitely and you'd make any recommendation about those staying going or more or less uh the speed humps are probably the only thing that's going to keep traffic at a relatively uh traditional speed of 25 miles an hour you can put all the signs all the stripes you want if you don't do something physical like a speed hump it's hard to control traffic speed so I would end you endorse the speed bumps I in the right location the right situation I do are they I would say they are okay thank you Mr McCormack no go ahead just I'm sorry Mr chairman please um I'm referencing your January 5th yeah 2024 letter yeah um and let me preface it by saying um you have probably forgotten most about traffic studies than I'll ever know in my lifetime so but I I'm just I'm just curious about one small thing if you turn to I don't think the pages are numbered but it would be the third page in that letter that I just referenced okay you talk about Crash summary sure um and just not to drag the question out and everything but you list everything it's very clear but then at the bottom of the first section it says plus eight more then plus two more plus 12 more what's what's the number that I'm look looking at all right how many like sure first two pages are mine oh through fourth fifth that's the print out from the state police crash request okay okay basically what that's saying January 5th we we did a supplemental report on the crash right evaluation at the intersection of Creek and M okay um I and I'll go through the whole thing for you as brief brief as I can we looked at initially when this project started was a couple years ago we looked at 10 years of Crash data understand okay since then the project came alive here we are we said you know what we better go get get the most recent three years so that's what this is so we have 13 years of Crash data from the state police at the intersection of Creek and M there's a total of 44 crashes at that intersection over 13 years which is only about three or so per year which is way below the state average aren't the three years included in the 10 years they are the three in this January 5th yeah are included in the 10 that were in the original traffic stud so you don't add them that's included it's 10 years yeah no it's 13 years 44 crashes so um if you look at the first page Mr chairman I have two tables the first says original evaluation 10 years and it totals 36 correct and then to the right of it is supplemental evaluation three three years total is eight I got you so that that's why it's a supplemental report so what I found was very interesting you would think there was there was lots of vehicle vehicle crashes coming through this curve and under the underpass 21 of them are fixed object crashes it's people having a hard time negotiating coming through the curve and the underpass so you know it's not it's not that it's unsafe necessarily because there's not a lot of crashes and there's very few vehicle vehicle crashes the fact is that it's tight and it's a little bit uncommon it's uncommon to say the least so that's why I came up with the recommendation of signing and striping just to increase motorist awareness as they come through this we all know everyone on Creek Road has the option to go around if they don't like going under the underp right all the all the residents of Mason Woods some of them go north some of them go south our residents the same thing some are going to go towards M some aren't so what we find is the intersections that the towns think are the worst intersections sometimes end up like this they have the the lowest crash frequency because people are paying attention when they drive through it so that's what that's all trying to say in a nutshell is that I think with a few signing and striping very coste effective improvements out there I think you could see a significant change and an improvement in the feel and the safety of that underpass the only followup question I have is for is that did your report include an exhibit that uh shows the striping and signage and other improvements that you mentioned during your testimony it did it uh it's contained in appendix e of your December 22nd report that's right y so so the applicant would agree as a condition of approval to so long as the county approved it uh install the improvements shown on exhibit a of your report yep absolutely okay they're described on page nine and it's shown in exhibit e you have you spoken to the county about that proposal not yet I don't think so about those specific issues no not about those you have any reason based on your experience to believe that the county would disagree with you on on the need for those I do not I do not uh the the ideas in that Improvement are somewhat out there uh as far as signs and stripes and things but I would say they're dated and I would say it needs a freshening up and I think this recommendation is that freshening up will any of these recommendations require no no everything is surface uh you they might want to be alerted to the fact we're putting a clearance sign on the bridge but I'm shocked this clearance sign is not there to begin with so it's nothing that is uncommon for any type of uh Bridge Under I I was going to say with the clearance sign you probably need an advanced sign too there there is an advanced sign um believe it there's some on mour there's one on Creek but there's nothing right at it which is usually you know if you drive Creek enough you don't notice the stuff on the side anymore the signs kind of fade right but every underpass I've seen especially one that has this kind of vertical challenge that clearance should be posted on it thank John okay thank you Mr chairman I I just have one and this is a question and I don't think I called it before Mr McCormack or Mr shulo so on the you guys were providing eight of the EV spaces and I think the EV charging law requires that 15% of your required parking spaces which is 130 spaces have to be EV so so that comes out to 19.5 spaces or rounds up to 20 under that law so I think the project is actually required to have 20 and then there's a phasing schedule is set forth in that yeah the EV law says that the first third of the total have to be installed in the initial construction that's we show more than that in this pH in this initial construction correct but I think all 19 have to be shown um or 20 actually so clear so we show the actual charging stations the law requires that it be made ready meaning conduit we don't put the Chargers in even correct full am so right so not none of those Make Ready spaces are identified on the plan right now you only have the eight Chargers shown we have yeah the other half isn't shown yet right so the other two3 so you'll have to show a total of 20 overall spaces eight will be Make Ready um and then the balance phased in in accordance with the law at three years and at six years I believe it is yes all right so you will want to make make it clear though just so everybody understands how this would end up going it means that only EV cars can park in those spaces so the initial amount that we're going to propose is what's required by the law exactly what's required so you'll you'll show all 20 that'll be identified on the plans you will have conduit run to them correct which is consistent with the law yes and then the actual charging stations will be implemented oneir at Co one3 at 3 years one3 at six years as required by law yes unless the rules change again which they did just recently but whatever the current version of the law is we comply can I question in regards to the signage out front is that going to be lit how that St and discuss Mr Taylor uh it is to be lit it is to be lit and uh we had asked them to clarify the lighting of that um I believe to make sure that it's 3000 degree Kelvin to match the rest of the lights and to make sure that it's um to make sure that it's shielded I I just had a question was a little confused about that discussion on the EV spaces sure the total number of parking spaces is going to be 122 but you said 20 of them eventually 20 of them will need to be EV and you said only cars that or electric cars could park in those spaces so that reduces that reduces the total number of available spaces for everybody else right as a practical matter yes yes the law requires us to do what Mr Taylor and Mr shulo just described and we have to comply with that law and we will we'll show that detail on the plan with notes so that it's clear that we're going to comply you're not supposed to park in an Eevee space if you have a gasoline fueled vehicle and if they don't have electric vehicles in this community or as many you may have EV spaces that aren't utilized or people will park there even though they're not supposed to and I'm not that [Laughter] one but but is the Walters Group going to enforce it will abely well yeah it's although we're seeing a lot more EV cars now than ever oh yeah it may be and it wouldn't surprise me if that law evolved with to meet the reality whatever our future holds so Mr chairman everyone that that concludes our plan Pres presentation we don't have any other testimony uh we certainly will answer any other questions we would like the the right to respond um to any comments from the public if necessary and wrap it up when we're finished but that's all of our plan presentation so thank you for your Indulgence was an excellent presentation thank you I'm going to address your last comment about you want to engage in comments from the public that's not happening no I you I'd like to have a right to respond if necessary but I'm going to control how it's I don't want to get into debates okay with with the public I'm going to allow them to speak and raise question or comments rather but we'll cover that when we get there okay I think you'll be happy with it you got it okay are there any other questions from the board members to any of the presenters yes I have a question and I just think for the good of the the group um if we can talk about uh the anticipated number of children that are going going to um potential or are are expected uh to result from this and address any concerns with school capacity any impact with school capacity yep that's a very good question we face it often um so we conduct our own um numbers of school AG children in all of our communities uh there are also Publications out there Ruckers publishes a study every so many years uh our internal number of school aged children per unit is about 67 um what was that the answer uh it averag out to 67 School AG children per unit that is consistent with the Ruckers data and when you multiply that out it gets you it's I believe the number so you multiply it by the 72 units divided by the 13 school grades and I believe it's you know somewhere around three and a half children per grade that would that's the average so about 50 new children 52 that sounds right do you know what the average is for a single family home four bedrooms uh in terms of oh children in terms of children it's it's far more than that um single family homes have have way more children than apartments and then uh sub set of that's affordable apartments thank you any other question any other questions from the board professionals Mrs Nukem no Mr Taylor No Sir Mr Martin no no okay okay I'm going to now open this to public comment um we still have five people on line you said uh there's two okay actually my calculation is 48 okay it I want I emphasize this all the time so I'm not being inconsistent with saying it this is public comment not question and answer period so phrase your comment if you want some kind of an answer we'll try to address it for you but what I don't want is I don't want debates between the applicant and the public address your comments up here and I will control it and if I can if I see one of the applicants one of them are nodding that they have the answer I'll ask them to answer or address the comment but please speak to us this way you'll be asked to come forward when you're acknowledged and step up to the podium Mr Kingsbury will swear you in and then you can make your comment so public comment is open do we have some I know this lady in the front you had a question ear okay yes sir in the back gentlemen my name is Mike Dutcher I live 106 Mas Woods which actually backs up to the driveway that's going in I have to swear you in just a second it's Mike yeah Dutcher dut c h e r say it again d c h e r raise your right hand please swear our affirm system Mone you give will be the truth all truth nothing but the truth yes I do uh the first question I got is living in Mason Woods our buffer zone is 50 feet why is this one only 42 feet shouldn't it be eight more feet for this buffer zone we'd live directly across the street from so that okay just to rephrase it I understand what you're asking but you said it's public comment not question and answer but we're going to get the answer to your concern okay um Mr Taylor so as indicated by the appc testimony the the zoning was specifically modified for the site for this site to help the town meet its Court mandated and constitutional affordable housing obligation that's what mandated some of the changes in zoning in terms of the permitted uses and also some of the bulk standards Bulk Zone was up sorry 8 foot was given up for then to build so the buffers the setback the types of units at this were modified so that the township could meet its Court mandated affordable housing obligation the buffers was one of those that was modified okay uh second question was you talk about public transportation what is the law our lawyer over here what is the law do they have to have public transportation for low income and affordable housing okay first of all our our lawyer is Mr kingsburry okay it's recommended I'm not sure it's mandated well shouldn't we find this out before we move forward well they have to comply if that's a requirement I'm asking what is the requirement I'm not a lawyer so I'm asking what is the requirement from the state for somebody who doesn't have transportation that is low income that does nowhere near a bus stop how are we going to get this low income people up to the bus stop which is over a mile away on Route 38 were you listening to the test everything you had to say today okay and also I heard no conf I heard around it but I never heard a definite answer is do they need it and I guess with listen if you listen to the testimony you would have heard the experts say that in their experience in these types of developments which they are well experienced in in many areas of the state that the vast majority if not all residents have their own vehicles and do not rely on public transportation again is it mandatory by law to have it since you're building affordable housing that is my question Mr chairman I I can say in in I was going to ask Mr deluka if he knew yeah the answer is no thank you I thought our Township lawyer would know this so that's why I looked at you because I'm not out address them you said right what's that I'm not allowed to address them right you don't address you no thank you um I guess I got a couple more I guess is uh the pilot program for this place how long does that last where they don't have to pay any taxes is this a lifetime where they the school children don't have to pay taxes to the school board and everything is it a fiveyear 10year pilot program for them or is this a lifetime where nobody ever pays taxes to this town Mr deluk I'm going to ask you to re to refer to respond to that if you can so uh we're we're here for site plan approval so that's that that's not an issue that relates to site plan approval however I do know although I did not negotiate a financial agreement between the developer and the municipality that's required for all communities such as this it does provide for payment prce which again is required in order to make these communities work uh and they pay a percentage of their rents I believe it's about 6.28% if I'm not mistaken uh towards the uh of the gross rents payable to the applicant uh in Le of paying taxes on the improvements and that is the pilot that I've seen in every one of these communities I've gotten approv of which there have been many so I don't negotiate them that's what I know so no answer you may not like the answer well it might be forever right no no no so we have let me just let me just finish let me just answer the question okay I've been asked to answer so this property will be need restricted initially uh I believe for 30 years and that will likely be renewed uh the initial pilot I believe matches the duration of the de restriction 30 years to answer your question okay it's 30 years without no taxes coming up from this uh again you may not like the answer sir there will be there will be taxes coming in it won't be ordinary taxes they're not going to pay the same thing that you or I pay as an ordinary taxpayer but there will be tax revenues paid they're called a payment in L of taxes that's only improvements okay and the land taxes always paid I just got two more things um the one thing you said about traffic control uh traffic plan that this gentleman did back here well Paula knows this firsthand because I I'm the one who went into the building they were installed on a Sunday morning at about 10:30 11:00 there was four cameras installed on Creek Road one at the intersection on hesport and Creek Road one underneath the traffic Bridge one right across the street from us from both ends of our development went in C Paul at 9:30 in the morning on Monday morning they were taken down by one what kind of traffic study was this done did they do it by satellite or do we do it on a Sunday night until a Monday morning because there was never another C ever installed there and Paula knows this because I was in the office talking to you about it you called the developer got back to me and said they were all taken down by one o'clock on a Monday so moving forward I think we should do a real traffic study an independent one okay not from the Builder from an independent had the Builder paper an independent or us as a Township to really see what the real numbers are because what he just said isn't true and isn't fact isn't Paula knows it so I let him I don't know who who wants a comment on that I have a comment on that um if the if the township deems this zoning appropriate which they have you can't say no we're not going to approve it because we don't like the traffic it's going to generate that's not a valid reason for turning it down now they hired an engineer to do a traffic study I can't challenge his findings other than to say it's not a necessary part of the site plan application it's something that they did I don't want to say Gratis because I'm sure it wasn't done Grace but uh it's not an element of the approval because the township has deemed this property appropriate for this particular use okay thank you Mr Kingsbury Mr McCormack may I ask you can you just tell us sure when the traffic study was conducted during what hours and what days of the week the the traffic counts at the intersection were conducted on Tuesday the 14th of November the we put down an ATR machine which is a it's like a rubber rubber Tu machine I think my subc consult use that in this this case uh and that was down from probably Sunday through Friday to get the week so it was for a week yeah that too okay now what was you use cameras also or just the rubber tub me well for the intersection counts sometimes they use cameras sometimes they put someone in a car and they actually count it by hand like we used to do back in the day right so I'm not sure what they did but I have the results from our sub consultant here and there was nothing that indicates that this is not factual what what they gave well what's factual is I went and seeing Paulo on Monday morning when it were installed Sunday morning at 11: a lot of I was there at 9:30 in the morning I talked to the guy person I said what are you doing he said I'm doing a traffic study okay no problem I let it go went there to her office first thing 9:30 in the morning by 1:00 they were dismissed I don't know I don't know who you talked to or I don't know what you saw exactly or when when that was but I can tell you that our subc consultant is Imperial uh traffic control they are a welln well respected traffic uh collection firm and I I agree with what they said I can't tell you I don't know what you saw thank you Mr mccor and thank you for your the comment it's and then we got some more information yeah I just Paul knows because I was in h third thing I got or last thing I got for tonight is the wetlands buffer could that be reduced to make uh more units instead of making three stories can we make them two okay this is I know nobody lives with this and you guys are going to drive by going underneath this bridge and everything but we can make these units two units two story units instead of the three story unit maybe just maybe we could take out like the wetlands buffer maybe we could reduce that to make more units at the back maybe take the uh the retention Pond one in the front combine it with the retention uh pond in the back maybe reduce something back there so we can put more units on the back corner so we can make these all two units going across I mean if we're going to start off with 66 we're up to 72 units in this but maybe we could stretch this out a little bit longer so we got more units which would be you're trying not to devalue our our properties across the street I mean that's the name of the goal here right yes we got to put this somewhere it's got to be in our backyard I get it okay let's work with this over here I think a lot of us should say instead of making these three story buildings let making two story buildings they're not all three you got the whole back row I'm going to be looking right at it every day I I get it okay this is a piece of ground do I think it was ideal listen I'm not saying anything about these people because I think they built a a nice project I know what they build up in L I see what they build in DCA they always build it on a roadway if you guys ever notice what they're building they did it in mortown they did it across Costco they did it on Moren Highway Matt Laurel did okay Lumberton do it does it right next to Walmart okay they put it on there where public transportation is they don't put it on a side street where there's no public trans nobody get in and out it's a fact Mr this guy doesn't build a good thing Mr Taylor can you explain why the wetlands can't be used to put buildings up well we weren't involved in the permitting on this I'd ask Mr shulo to get involved but just in looking at the plan um pretty much every square inch of the site that is is developed um that can be sort of functionally um I defer to the engineers but I think that other I mean this this has changed got it wait wait let him finish okay um I don't believe that Basin can be relocated to the back either based on the current stormw management regulations but I would defer to the to the engineers on that um maybe Mr shulo or Mr deluk can can comment as to whether or not additional land area can be sought sure Mr schul understand so the question is can we spread the buildings out by part I got part I got so the short answer is no saying reduce this one here Min that one maybe take this buffer back maybe add a little back here so we can bring up one of theint have on from the natural Wetland that are in this corner here is the developer for the industrial park encroached the project s here and that's their storm water feature that we can't use that area because they've encroached so there's he's that's the wet land right there and then that edge there where that's their fence that's where it slopes up so their Bas six or sevenet deep so that's the graded Edge so we can't utilize any of that part and this over here even though aside from the I mentioned in earlier testimony that it's pretty steep in here there's a lot of land grading already taking place you've seen it you see acoss Street know how much trade change there is this is significantly lower than a lot of this part so we can't make a drain upill this Bas origin got this should I address you guys or I don't know when we got this a year ago year and a half ago this was the driveway original was supposed to go from right across the street from here to here but now it's in the middle of the block but original plan was from the beginning was very close here so now you switched everything one time I think also because all the buildings were three story and as a compromise I'm just saying that's probably the driver compromise a little bit more see we can squeeze right and it get back we got 72 homes going here right and then and throughout our story here in h where I've been here over 25 years okay we take everybody's money from all these Builders and now we're at the point where okay we got to build this affordable hous do I think there's other good places in town to put it yeah I do nobody ever wants it but somebody's got to be bothered by it but just work with us over here in this development that's all we're asking make it I know it builds a nice thing okay I know that let's try to knock this down like div and port or you know you've been over dport a lot let's make them all two stories in there for us so maybe yeah we might be eight short but we can put that somewhere else in town we don't have to have every all 72 unions because everybody else in town decide to Builder give us money and all we're asking you to do up here as a board work with us yeah we understand you guys all want to put it there we all know it's going to get approved okay but just work with us with this planning board with this to make it nice so when we look across the street every day that you build a good project for us all that's all we're asking and it's all I got for tonight okay thank you for your comments appr appreciate it anybody online have any there are two residents online they have any um if they they could unmute and um provide their comments okay I'll take one more from here ma'am no one's unmuting sir could you be sworn in by Mr Kingsbury Janice Len l u d d n Janice l l raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth whole truth nothing but the truth than thank you um so I'm on the environmental commission so a lot of my comments questions but um they're to do with the environment things so um I just wasn't sure if we have um exactly what the list of proposed plants and trees that are being put in I didn't see that on the thing that I was able to look at as far as what what they are um the specific bushes isn't there a planning schedule there is a planning schedule Mr chairman if you want I can read off the yes please um Janice we've their landscape architect we've done numerous projects with them they do actually Focus quite a bit on trying to maximize the use of natives okay um we went through and none of the species that we saw were there are no invasive species identified on here and they really do try to maximize um the number of those even to the point where they have you know summer Suite uh further Gilla um Alex glab um I'm sorry inkberry Winterberry Virginia sweet spire a number of these that are native shrubs yeah I just didn't also um just mentioned I mean there's a lot of trees in that site that are coming down obviously um it's woulded a lot um and you know unfortunately with carbon and all trees are a very good source of carbon suck but I wasn't sure they mentioned seedlings going someplace but there was also mentioned there wasn't room for trees at that site are the seed where are the seedlings going to be planted with 300 so one of the things we talked about is some of that the transitional rear grading on the back sides of basins and things we've had success doing that a lot of times what we'll do is uh a strip of meadow planting and then uh doing a number of of seedlings in there there will be some mortality with those deer brows um and just gender mortality but I I think the totals were about 315 trees and those can be put into a into a tighter spot if you plant all 2 and A2 inch caliper trees they take up a considerable amount of space very early on okay is there any possibility of some of those trees going someplace else where there is some space as opposed to the mortality of um sapling so there's there's some case law about that and it becomes difficult um so it's probably easier uh if we handle that as opposed to an off-site contribution um for offsite planting so if we do that on site it'll actually long term establish some better Edge habitat here on this site which is a spot that could use it especially around where some of that transitional grading is for the Basin okay and then um the Basin is is it going to be a VOD Basin or is it going to have so I mentioned that color sand in the bottom of the B that a be and then the other one I just the traffic study um this is not environmental commiss this is just me but listening to the traffic study um you know I think that numbers aren't as important like 30 cars added and the intersection as so much as percentage increase which wasn't really dealt with so like if I live in a house and I have four people in there and four relatives come to visit you know I'm doubling it's only four people you could say but it's doubling the amount of people so I just felt like that was sort of you know over you know saying yeah there's just 30 more people and and how long do people have to wait get out there and how much is it increasing the percentage chance of the accidents that might happen there um you know I would think would be an important part of the traffic study and um the other question was just curiosity probably but when I was looking at the Lumberton numbers for the um income requirements for the units some of them have a very small range of of how much income so like your minimum is like 21,400 your maximum is 2300 400 which is like $2,000 I was just curious as to um one um how um how much turnover there is in these units like do people live there for one year do they live there for multiple years like you know it's going to school is going to be just there for one year and then moving and then the other thing was just do the units ever end up being empty because nobody's making between 21 3 so just more Curious than than anything know okay M Mrs Len while you're waiting for that answer to come uh here's a copy for you of the planning schedule for the environmental commission thank you very much thank you for your comment and just Mr L just one thing to follow up that whole rear perimeter of the Basin is actually shown as a concert conservation seed mix okay um that is sort of a meadow that has a lot of native plants and and we'll sort of naturalize um back for that whole rear area any other comments from the public yes ma'am Mr Kingsbury will swear you in state your name and address please Mary Ellen Martin 111 weatherhill Court say it again Ellen Gail Mary Ellen Martin m a r t i n 111 weather Hill you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth all truth I think we truth I do I know you said you didn't one questions so um just a quick comment um it's been mentioned quite a few times as we come to these meetings and I've been to most of them when it comes to this particular subject and you always say you know come share your comments which I think I think most of the people in our development have shared the same comment our main concern is the traffic and the excessive speeds that go up and down Creek Road with this development it will bring additional cars more volume more speed and it's and it's it's very concerning to us I know that um in all the testimonies today I didn't hear anything that's addressing the speed in the sense of are we putting more speed bumps in is there we have no police in this town so how is it going to be police so that it's a little bit safer on Creek Road number one um we all know that railroad Trestle bridge is extremely dangerous I don't see having more cars coming in and out is it getting any better um I now personally go around because people just don't know how to negotiate it sometimes and I don't want to be caught in that situation um the we talked about the speed bumps um I I'm just a little concerned about all of those things with this new development coming in with the additional people and I guess I do have one small question you have 122 parking spaces if someone has a party where are these additional cars parking I'm just curious um there's no parking on Creek Road are they coming to the streets into the development which is fine I understand that as long as it doesn't become yeah the routine so well part of your comment was a good one but I think you were here but I'm not positive if you were but Mr McKay raised some questions of Mr McCormack the traffic study professional right um about should we have more speed bumps in there is what is the posted speed limits 25 I know where you're coming from 25 means 35 if I'm correct there isn't anyone going that I'm sorry yeah are you right um but there's not much we can do we meaning here can do about it I understand but your your points noted and we appreciate it um and I hope I've partially answer I don't know I mean I'm not stupid I know this is pretty much a done deal we got that um I just feel as if we as Citizens and residents here in this Township need to kind of get that out so that it is you know notice to that you know we are concerned about that those are issues that do concern us so thank you all okay thank you for your comment anyone else yes ma'am I'm sorry is a ma'am okay any comments from folks online anything anybody wake up yet no no okay if there's anybody online okay Mr Kingsbury will swear you in please your name Pat Mackin 116 Mason Woods Lane hesport New Jersey your name again Pat Mackin m a c Ken you swear or affirm The Testament you give will be the truth all truth nothing but the truth yes thank you um tonight I heard a couple things that um from being on the board in Mason's Woods that I thought were one just dangerous that I thought needs to be addressed and one is if I heard correctly no fencing around the Basin um in our Basin we just redid All That fencing a couple years ago and on advice of our lawyer we had to post signs to keep out now I know toddler is going to understand what that that is but that was based on a lawsuit that was just settled uh the end end of last year where a toddler came out of the trailer park up by the Vincent Town Diner went into that retention Pond and drowned so when I heard no fencing I thought there's kids that are going to be in this development and our Basin when you looked at when I've come up and looked at it the water flow chart that our basin's always supposed to have this much water it's up to here on me because the 3in pipe coming into that Basin is CL going out of the Basin is clogged I can't get into it I we climb over the outlet with a rake to try to unblock that if that happened in this Basin and that's not fenced and you have a toddler go in there you've got a lawsuit I would think I don't want to see any child killed because there's no fencing around the Basin and ours wasn't supposed to have water in it and it does yeah well and the testimony we received earlier is that it's only going to be about 2 feet so was ours yeah and I've been up there and it's a and when you have torrential rain ours my opinion after taking care of it for so many years it's not constructed right because it does not flow correctly unless we go down there and unclog that little pipe so that that was one okay good comment well I don't want to see any anybody anybody lose a child um my other question is that Basin I understand sand bottom where does the water go is there a pipe connecting it to the pipe underneath Creek Road to the creek we we'll get a response for you okay only because one of our residents has through do that fight unclog it we do a lot of Maintenance in our little development that's the most important part get cled up generally first Walter maintain all properties bu they don't sell anything they bu it they maintain iterate they do multitude of management INSP issues the question you an structure that's ancr and has a pip that comes out and goes into this wooded area over here and discharges below grade so that there's positive Rel in the Bas okay requ for shallow of the Bas to beor here so be clear what happens today is it drains this site drains to that location already right so and the way these stor manag design we have Improvement to the flow that goes that we have to ruce a flow that goes to that so this will be Improvement what you see to so gu main no ma'am a okay now um sir I'll tell our resident stay out of it excuse me let me just didn't you mention in previous testimony that there was going to be an overflow pipe in the back of that uh drain thing yeah I just mentioned that again there's a structure that's here and there's a PL that discharges Into the Woods okay I thought you said something in the back corner was going to go up the other way towards the industrial park and then into a supposed to okay go that way all right and that's what we have in ours that gets clogged up here okay okay um thank thank you um let's see I guess the last one well two where are these being marketed to Davenport was marketed up in New York and over in Philly so where are ours going to be marketed to don't know wherever the developer is going to do it yeah we um this is Mr spel go ahead yes so our affirmative housing marketing plan spells that out but you newspaper Publications locally um I'm Inon through njf again we can't favor people in a specific ex people and there are certain required Outlets that we have to follow so that the word gets out okay because it D for the um the camon dioses were the ones running the ads up in New York that's why I just diis Community right I don't think it is now any thank you um the last question U just comment I back up uh Mike Dutcher 1 million per. because I talked to the gentleman putting those cameras up all four were put up they were down exactly when Mike said I posted it on Facebook how quick they came down they were supposed to be from what the gentleman told me up there for a month I thought good you're capturing all of the traffic they go down I think they put uh we asked for strips new strips were put up that's an inaccurate traffic St study absolutely 100% I'd like to see it redone I we have 32 homes I can't tell you how many vehicles go in and out of that development every day and I know you said it doesn't matter it would be nice that's accurate for the record okay that's all thank you thank you Mrs Mackin any other public comment any public com from on online uh there are three individuals online if anyone has a public comment please unmute yourself and provide your comment no okay hearing no more we'll close public comment Mr deluka you have any closing comments you'd like to sh well the hour is late and I'm sure everyone wants to get on get on with it so I I'll just keep this brief just to refocus is where we began this is a site plan application question before this board is whether we meet your applicable requirements you as a board have to consider the evidence that's in the record which is the testimony that's given uh that uh you find to be credible and the evidence here of course is that we meet all the requirements your professionals have looked at this with the fine too excuse me fine tooth comb and we meet your requirements so as a as a result site plan approval has to be granted timing is important one thing I didn't mention uh this community will be financed primarily through what's called an affordable housing production fund which is a pool of money $35 million set aside by the state to fund affordable housing communities throughout the state and it's essentially a first come first serve basis uh if you meet the requirements so this community has received uh what's called a declaration of intent which is essentially like a preliminary indication of approval but it's not a guarantee and it's not a final approval in order to get the final approval what they call uh I believe it's called the resubmission is that right Ed resubmission recommitment I knew it wasn't exactly right um the recommitment we have to have preliminary and final site plan approval so we need that from you tonight uh because we need to submit that to hmfa to show them that we have that uh we will ask them to put us on their next available agenda best case that's Main 9th we may not make that agenda in which case it can occur I believe 45 days later which would be roughly late June uh there's no guarantee that this money will be available when we go back to hmfa that's just something none of us any of us in this room control that's not intended to be anything other than the re just an indication of what the reality is for the funding of this community so the timing is important so we put a lot of time and effort into trying to make sure we get this right comply with all all of your applicable rules and you have a robust set of rules and we comply with them we' worked with your professionals we're grateful for their input your Township officials have uh provided a lot of input we've tried to address your comments as best we can uh I'd be lying if I said we could address everyone's comments we can this is a site that's constrained by Wetlands hynesboro Township the walers group doesn't dictate where we can put everything because of the wetlands this is the site that we have and so we're making uh we're utilizing every every bit of this site that we can uh we tried to reduce the stories in the front to lower the impact lessen the impact to the residents across Greek Road put the height back by the industrial park where we have no impact we think we've hidden that height with the architecture of the buildings and the screening so we've tried to do everything we can to make this a responsible uh development it's not a popularity contest the question for this board is do we meet the site plan requirements the answer unequivocally is absolutely yes and as a result we'd ask you to do what the law requires and approve this site plan approval so that we can move to the next step which is complying with all your conditions approve of approval finalizing the financing and helping to uh meet the Township's affordable housing obligations thank you very much we appreciate your consideration thank you counselor appreciate your comment um board members any other questions professionals I have a question just for the record if you made these two story buildings and you took the three the top ones off how many units would we lose uh so if we took off the third story in the back of the rear buildings Mr Donan Can you estimate that approximate and you'll have to step to the microphone and you don't need an exact number right I just I know we're under pressure that we have to um Supply so many units but I'm also under I I understand that many residents have expressed this to me and I want to put their concerns on the record about 10 to 12 minutes it's a lot of units Mr deluka what is the impact on the financing or if you reduce the number of units well you have a court approved settlement agreement that specifically provides for 72 units on this site oh yeah we do period uh and if you wanted to deviate from that you'd have to make up the units get Fair shares approval uh get reports approval uh you have an agreement with us contemplate 72 units and you've agreed to fund 72 units six more than the original 66 so that would be to me a back to the drawing board type of change how many and that would signific would significantly IND danger the funding because this production fund is not going to last indefinitely the the well will run out what was the prior testimony how many three-bedroom units was it 10 so you have to you cannot have excuse me you have to have at least 20% of the units three bedroom and I'll tell you what the testimony was but I wrote it down excuse me uh we'll have 15 bedroom units okay so we meet the three bedroom apartments the state wants three bedrooms so you have to have at least 20% and 15 meets that requirement okay thank you does that answer your question yes it does thank you unfortunately my pleasure thank you okay um any questions from our professionals no questions no sir no Mrs Nukem no no okay so uh what's the board's pleasure on this application Mr chairman I'll make a motion to Grant both preliminary and final site plan approval is requested by the applicant okay um I'll second that any questions on the motion I I have one of Mr Kingsbury do you need any clarification as to for the resolution the only waivers that we discussed were for the tree count and that uh Mr Taylor and Mr Miller would walk the site to determine tree plantings and they're going to comply with all the other requirements that are in the review letters and and keep Mr Taylor and Mr Miller happy right yeah I would just like to clarify that we're going to comply with the remaining comments in the letter except as testified by Mr shulo and his testimony as to a handful of comments which were really clarifications but yes okay okay I I had a couple other conditions just because I I suspect the board we'll we expect them since they were discussed in addition to the walking the site regarding the trees we we'll we'll look at turning the fence around the corner uh on up the right side as you face it from Creek Road I think that's the southeast side but I'm not sure about directionally um we'll address the fire officials report dated February 28th and come back to the board if we can't resolve that that comment in there um we've addressed the lighting concerns Mr Taylor mentioned U we'll provide a copy of the rules and regulations to miss Nuka uh and and uh anyone else he ask us to provide them to um we're going to install the improvements to Creek Road near the intersection as depicted on exhibit e to the December 22nd traffic impact study if the county approves it and lastly we're going to revise the plans to show the location of all EV spaces those Make Ready in future potential spaces as required by by law with notes as to uh when they'll be installed based on existing law but that's subject to change and that's all the conditions I noted okay he what about the um striping Mr mccormic that was included in my comment chairman excuse me the uh the improvements I shown that exhibit so it's striping some signage clearance all the things that were testified to and they're shown on exhibit to the December 22nd report so that's a good reference okay all right um may I have a roll call please on the motion Mr McKay yes Mr ciper yes Mrs Tori yes Mrs uh Kelly for me this was a very difficult application and it was presented you did an excellent job presenting it and I thank you for that there are certain things things that you have to follow that have been brought out by law one thing that I would want to mention is if you have um well I'm going to skip that um so the bottom line is I'm going to qualify it as a yes because of the laws that have been presented that we have to follow we almost don't have any choice if you asked me when this first came in with the low and moderate income housing I I was pretty outspoken then that they did it wrong but at that time it there was so much not known that it should have been 20% of all building we should not have been given a number but the bottom line was we were given a number and we do have to follow that so the answer is yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr chochi yes Mrs bgio yes Mr Murphy yes and Miss Costco I just wanted to add um that I want to thank the Walters Group for making the modifications and adjustments to the plan based on the community's input uh we had a very valuable public information session back in 2021 an ongoing dialogue um and I do recall that the original plans had three-story buildings along the front the plans were changed and modified based on the community's request um and found that that the most reasonable change could be to have the three-story furthest back on the Southeast side of the property for the three-story buildings and then have the two stories in the front um so I want to thank you guys for making those adjustments for the community um also wanted to state that you know as our third ride third round compliance does include other locations in the community but this is our largest contribution our largest project that gets us to our Again State mandated requirement for third round and some of those other areas that we are providing affordable housing throughout the community include the 16 new units at Davenport uh the Randol estate senior project that's going to be going up at Christian Faith Assembly also uh the uh some Legacy and some assisted living facilities that are spread throughout the community in addition to um I believe we had the Habitat for Humanity house as well so there are other opportunities for affordable housing market to Affordable as well as extending some controls at the Glenn at Mason's Creek so um I think this is a great plan again this is a plan that we came to with fair share housing and with with uh Superior Court so um it's been a concerted effort and I'm happy to give my vote as yes okay thank you all very much we really appreciate your consideration thank you just one second I I have a qu Mr Kingsbury what kind of a time burden is this putting you under to get a resolution out as quickly as possible and how can we help them meet maybe this may deadline that you have I we did resolution yeah we'll be ready next month at our meeting yes okay well I think didn't one time we expedited something and got it quicker or something we just in a letter well so we we no it has to be for that meeting it have to be everybody has to vote so yeah so we will need a resolution of course but what we can give to hmfa while we're waiting for that is a letter from paa stating what happened tonight and that a resolution will be adopted at the next meeting that should check that that box for us to give to hmfa so that we can get on the next available agenda well it's if I didn't ask my question we wouldn't be where we are right now is that possible yeah okay this yeah so I would like comment group um as the construction Tech and our Construction office uh myself uh our sister assistant Jennifer and our inspectors have had um an [Music] absolutely good time in regards to having this Builder build in our town the reason is is again as everyone knows that I've been here a very long time I've been through more Builders than you can expect and the fact that they have been as well as we have but I have to say that this Builder has been more accommodating than um than most in my career uh anytime that there's a phone call or there's a request from my inspectors uh from My Fire official and such is that um it is literally on the ball so I just like to thank walters's group um particularly your site manager Tom um I like to give him Kudos on record because uh he has just been an absolute pleasure to deal with and does everything that is expected of him regard to the code requirements so I just like to say thank you thank you Kathy we appreciate it okay thank you Mr deloka thank you everyone good night good night good night take care um next order of business we have I didn't forget him this time uh the minutes December 6th um need a motion in a second to don't accept the minutes I make a motion that we accept them file the minutes of December the 6th I'm sorry Kelly you weren't here that day oh [Laughter] okay I'll make the motion you can I can leave them I'm sorry you got a motion Mr Murphy and then who second is there a second you first if you need a motion I will second second okay any questions on motion hearing none have a roll call please Mr Murphy yes Mr cifer yes Mr McKay yes Mr trochi yes and Mrs bajio yes Miss Costco yes next order of business there are some resolutions we have resolution the automobile sales on Route 38 that's uh 2410 need a motion in a second well first yeah Motion in a second second okay any questions on the motion hearing none may have a roll call please mayor Gilmore yes Mrs Tori yes Mr McKay yes Mrs Kelly yes Mr tooi yes Mrs bajio yes Mr Murphy yes and Miss Costco yes wasn't I at that meeting you voted now oh oh yeah that's right okay um the next resolution is 24-11 adopting the findings and recommendations of the hansport township committee affordable housing need a motion in a second second any questions on the motion roll call please mayor Gilmore yes Miss Costco yes Mrs tordy yes Mr McKay yes Mrs Kelly yes Mr chochi yes Mrs pagio yes Mr Murphy yes and Mr ciper yes uh next is uh correspondence we have 15 items of Correspondence I need a motion second that they be accepted and I make a motion that we uh accept and file the car second any questions on the motion hearing none roll call please Mrs Kelly yes may Gilmore yes Mrs Tori yes Mr McKay yes Mr shochi yes Mrs vadio yes Mr Murphy yes Miss Costco yes and Mr CER yes um next we're at professional comments no wait yes I'm sorry yeah professional comments any more professional comments good night thank you all um board comments yes I have one comment uh for Kathy new uh Kathy uh I I have I'm in rehab now and D has made a comment to me about how easy and how accommodating you were in helping them open the 3D he court office that among the 3D uh Community there they have 10 offices ours was the fastest and the easiest to open and they and they uh credit you for doing that well I think as a town as a whole that we all including the board professionals all offices thank you um any public comments about anything okay hearing close public comments and it's time to get to adjournment all those in favor those opposed thank sir appreciate it good night we are done