[Music] [Music] B how you ready guys ready all right uh 6:30 and uh I'm going to call the order the uh April 3 2024 meeting of hesport Township joint land use board uh we'll have a flag salute as the first order of business [Music] conations to the States of America one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all uh my name is Tom Mckay I'm the vice chair I'm sitting in tonight for how cifer um who's unable to make it for personal reasons tonight uh so I'll be running the meeting in his place um may we have uh a reading of the Sunshine Law please notice how this meeting was published in accordance with the open public meetings act uh we have a standard announcement uh there will be no new business started after 10:00 I don't think that's going to be a problem tonight given our agenda uh but that is a standard rule we have uh may I have a roll call please do you want Mr McKay you have a letter file you want to do that first I'll I'll do that I I'll do that after I'll do that shortly okay uh Mrs Tori here Mrs Kelly here mayor Gilmore absent Mr tooi absent Mrs bgio here M Mr Murphy absent Miss Costco here Mr Bradley here Mr noita here Mr mclin absent Mr Holden here and Mr CER absent all right related to uh the roll call we just heard uh I'm in receipt of a letter was passed on to me addressed to uh chairman CI for April 1 2024 from Bruce mcglaughlin uh who is a was an alternate member of this board and previous that a member uh and he Mr C Fifer is advised by Mr McLaughlin that McLaughlin tenders his resignation effective immediately for personal reasons uh so uh uh we will We we'll have a vacancy to fill but that will be up to committee to take care of all right uh we got two items for business tonight uh the first is uh case uh 24-6 Ying Auto Recycling LLC who's present for that would you please chairman before you start that I just have a brief uh statement to make so the board will know what's going on absolutely this is U an unusual application that the boards don't encounter very often maybe once a year or once every few years you you'll get this but the municipal land use law allows you to hear appeals where it is alleged that administrative officer made an error in uh a ruling so this the statute specifically says that the board has the power to hear and decide appeals where it is alleged by the applicant that there is error in any order requirement decision or refusal made by an administrative officer based on or made in the enforcement of the zoning ordinance so that's what you have tonight the p uh burden proof is on the applicant uh to prove that the administrative officer who is Kathy uh made an error and a zoning decision and uh and that burden of proof is by what what measure bur proof on the applicant by clear and convincing evidence or by mere preponderance of evidence I would say it's by a preponderance of the evidence okay the statute doesn't say but thank you Mr Kingsbury uh I agree with with what you just said good good evening my name is Douglas Harris I am here for the applicant owner Ying Auto Recycling LLC uh Ying Auto is the owner of H 10 hesport hesport Mountain l Road in hesport New Jersey uh I I expected all of you have the um packet and application that we submitted uh on behalf of the applicant um looking to discuss um Miss nukem's um determination that I have that right I'm sorry right Miss Nukem yes okay right Kathy right I just want to make sure okay yeah um determination that uh uing Autos use of 10 hesport Road no longer qualify for the grandfathered use of that property which as I understand it have been grandfathered for many many years if not decades um with me tonight is Mr Vega the uh member of Ying Auto uh owner of the of the the site what's appears to have happened here and we Mr V and I met already met previously with Mr Kingsbury and M Nukem to discuss is ying Auto is the owner but not user of that site he's the landlord he rents out this space to uh a third party user that third party user well let me back up let me back up I'm sorry let me give a little bit of the history the history of the site is that it has a grandfathered use it's in an R1 Zone but as you saw in I imagine in my letter and in the resolutions that were that were provided and previously passed by this board that R1 Zone isn't an appropriate determination of that property or appropriate use and so the use is as a auto dealership uh repair facility and that may be a little vake but we can we can get into that pre prior your board has determined and agrees with that in that the R1 zone is not really appropriate for for R1 for a house it's more appropriate for commercial use in this nature Ying Auto has no issues whatsoever with that and agrees with that and what we what's happened here is that Ying's tenant went you tenant had a subtenant and that subtenant went outside the parameters of that grandfathered use meaning that the grandfather use had a specific requirements that while no longer exactly um appropriate to the use meaning that they were with the American Red Cross auto dealership that doesn't really exist anymore but there was a use on that site the subtenant went outside the parameters of that of that use Miss Nukem noticed uh that hey that's not correct that has to stop Ying Auto then had that stopped uh and moved forward Miss nukman and her determination said that that that use and I think it was for 16 days that 16 days of inappropriate or outside the parameters of The Grandfather's use has rendered the entire grandfather use of that site void meaning that now it's strictly an R1 Zone and that any user of that site whether it be uing Auto or a subsequent purchaser of that site or a subsequent user of that site would have to go in front of this board and get an entire new use variance to allow for it to be anything other than the R1 now we don't think that's an appropriate determination by Miss Nukem and would instead ask this board to make the determination that Ying Auto and any of its subsequent users meaning a tenant or a purchaser of that site because you AO would like to actually and is under contract to sell the site to a similar user that that similar user would would not need to go in front of this board for the use that has been used on the site for decades but instead would have to go in front of this board for uses other than that if they want to expand if they want to do other auto repair or auto dealership or anything outside of what's been done on that site for years and years and years we agree they would have to come back before this board and make that make that variance application and satisfy the Township's requirements to do so but if as Miss Nukem contends all of the grandfather uses are gone because of this very small inappropriate or outside the bounds use then that property is just an R1 Zone it it's it's just a house it's just appropriate for R1 and an applicant would have to go in front of this board from not from an appropriate position but from from from backwards which basically would mean to our our current buyer and to any subsequent buyer sluser that you want to do auto dealership in a residential Zone that is a much higher Hill to climb that would make the site but would make the site unusable now and it would make the site pretty much unsellable at an appropriate price so to to just to wrap it up your board previously had determined that R1 is inappropriate to this site that the more appropriate use is the use that on the site now that has been on the site for years and years which is what we want to continue we are not here to ask for more use different use expanded use that's not for tonight that's for our buyer to decide if he wants to come before you and and and apply for it and if he does great and if you want to approve that great more power to you if you don't that's that's your determination entirely we're asking that we just take a step back and say that here's what's real what we think is The Right Use of this site it's continued for years and years let's continue it moving forward um Mr Vegas here to answer any questions you may have uh I don't while Mr Kingsbury uh correctly set cites the uh Municipal land use law um other than what's in the packet and any questions you might have there's really nothing to determine there's nothing to prove I don't think I need to prove that the site was used previously as an auto dealership I think we all know that I don't think there's any dispute about that and I don't think there's any dispute that the resolutions were passed by this board or that what the what the board cited in their resolutions is accurate um previous users have had dealer licenses that allowed for the dealership use for years and years and years uh and any future user or buyer or continued use um by Ying Auto if he so chooses would be under the confines of those resolutions and Builder licenses um I would I would welcome any questions or or try to expand in any way well are you going to present any testimony besides what we've just heard today which is not sworn testimony but we can fix it right of course I am not testifying um I I offer Mr Vega to testify to but I think it more appropriate and a better use of this Force time and if if you disagree fine to ask him any questions that you may have that would further testimony there's um I think the testimony I think that the testimony is in the papers but I I offer Mr Vega to to respond to to any to any questions well before we get to that um you gave us uh a lot of titles uh owner uh liser right Etc want to get names because it's that'll that'll clarify things okay first of all who's the titled owner now of the site youing Auto Recycling LLC and that's a corpor that's a corporation that's an LLC yes all right uh and are you testifying now on firsthand knowledge or making these representations on firsthand knowledge I am not testifying I am making representations based on my understanding as the attorney for Ying Auto Recycling okay um you are not u a principal in any I'm not a member I not a principal I I have no business interest in Ying Ying Auto other than um it's attorney okay and um uh there's a uh there's a subtenant uh that was in possession of the property um at the time a portion of the property that Ying Auto had a tenant named uh Malone's Auto Malone's Auto who was a tenant uh user of that property uh this winter as we understand it we were not involved in any sub teny agreements with Malone auto and it's and it's tenant it's subtenant but Malone's Auto uh as I understand it had some difficulties financially making the rent and so they leased out a portion of the property to a subtenant I don't know the subtenant name I don't know um but that subtenant probably didn't understand or maybe wasn't even informed as to the restrictions on the property once once we were informed that that subtenant went outside the confines that's when we took action to end the end that use and to try and get back into the good graces of Miss Nukem um and that's where we are all right so your uh your your gentleman in the in the audience is your is your only witness I guess yes so why don't we have him come up be sworn in we'll get information from him sure sir raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm testimony you are about to give will be the truthful truth the Stu you got yes would you state your full name sir Ricky Vega Mr Vega uh what is your position and association with Ying Auto Recycling LLC I'm the owner are you the so owner yes how long have you owned the business approximately seven eight years seven to eight years okay um has the business operated out of the hesport M La Road site that we're discussing no has the business employed or rather uh contracted with a tenant company to operate out of that hesport Mount Laurel Road Site we simply rented the property out to uh to another tenant all right was that Malone yeah Malone's Auto yes okay and how long have you rented or leased to Malone or um it was one year I'm not sure of the exact date you have the exact date it was one year ago and then we just renewed the lease it was actually renewed for 3 years total the lease and that renewal was recently um it was Prior September September I believe I'm not sure exactly of the lease how long it was all right just as a little background Malone's been in there for about a year you told me a minute ago correct so who was there before Malone operating the it was motorpool Operation is that the outfit that previously was known as Red Cross automobile or words to that effect it was known or motorpool motorpool yeah all right um now there there was a subtenant that Malone had that was referenced who is that uh I believe there were Oxford energy and what does Oxford energy do as far as you know I believe they're AC company AC AC and heating what does that mean air conditioning and heating okay now what do they do air conditioning eating for for different companies different buildings contracts all right they're not related to the auto uh sale or resale IND business correct okay were they occupying the whole site no this uh Oxford engineering subtenant no what were they occupying the storage they were parking in the back and operating in the back of the building when you uh when did you find out about the existence of the subtenant when Kathy advised me in an email um do you have any requirement with Malone in your lease with Malone that Malone could sublet the property I don't think we had anything against uh the subletting of the property I never I don't think we put any any literature in there so so there was nothing in your lease with Malone one way or the other on subletting no it was just a b a rental basically do you do you ever go by the property that you leased to Malone to see how things are going there I have plenty of other businesses and I did not go by is uh the subtenant still operating out of the business correct yes no the subtenant no the sub that's right the subtenant subtenant no the subtenant was out immediately all right uh Malone is still operating all right what's I was going to say is Malone still operating still operating the subtenant was banded from coming for the period that the subtenant was there and how long was that I believe it was a couple of days um Miss Kathy had pictures I don't know how long I know for sure it wasn't more than 16 but well let let's let's let the witness testify Council yeah I believe it was no more than 16 days I personally know of 34 4 days right since I spoke to Kathy and I got them out of there all right and is subtenant Oxford engineering completely out of there now yes is has Malone taken back or taken over that same space for its own use Malone never left okay well sorry what was that Malone Malone has never left the property Malone never left the property you tell me but uh Malone allowed Oxford to use a portion of the property property to help them cover the rental was that and in my understanding from your prior testimony is that portion was some some of the parking lot off to the side now back of the building correct and did Malone uh also allow Oxford to use po portions of the building inside the back of the building the building has back entrance and then it has garages in the front so Malone was still operating at a complete front of the building and there's some back room or backside space that Malone allowed Oxford to use yes and is Oxford out of that completely that space completely out of the space inside outside everywhere all right and now is now Malone Malone has control over the whole Space correct and does Malone continue to do its Auto Sales correct business out of that space correct all right uh did did Malone ever consider going to see uh Miss Nukem before allowing Oxford to sublet a portion of the property I cannot speak on his behalf if he did that or not uh what what instructions if any did you um as the U the principal of viewing Auto give to Malone to go down to the township and speak to miss uh Kathy well uh that's right yeah did you that's what I instructed him to do uh and was that in was that in connection with uh his communication to you that he wanted to sublet part of the property it was in connection and he was trying to get the sublet to stay in there and when Miss Kathy said no he completely I told him listen I don't need my license is revoked he needs to go all right so uh let me just understand the sequence did did milone bring the subtenant in before you had the conversation with Malone about going to see Miss Nukem no uh Malone yes Mone brought the tened in himself I didn't find out about it until Kathy sent me an email all right and then you you instructed Malone you better go down and talk to Kathy yuk he he explained to me that he wanted uh the subtenant to stay in there because he was helping him cover the rent he was struggling paying the rent and he wanted the subtenant to stay in there I said if that's the case go down and speak to Kathy when I spoke to Kathy Kathy said absolutely not pretty much covered the extent of your knowledge of this situation yes anything else you want to add not at all and I did I miss a question that I should do you think I should have asked you that would develop the facts to help you no I mean not at all she asked me to have him remove him from the site and I did if you had a third party purchaser or new tenant after Malone's tendency expires would your uh require would you require that new user to meet with the town to discuss use of the site and the what is it is not currently and what to do to extend or expand upon of course yes all right um Council you have any other evidence to present um Miss Nukem can can I ask you to um give us the facts as you know them from your point of view sure I'll I'll step up yes I swear you you swear our affirm the testimony you give tonight be the truthful truth nothing but truth stuff we got I do good evening folks Kathy Nukem hesport Township zoning officer so uh before you in the packet I put together um what I felt was a fairly strong packet on my uh decision of why I felt that this pre-existing non-conforming use which will had been approved back in the 80s and then went through other tenants or other buyers as well that also had to come to the board and I felt that this was an abandonment use um Mr Vegas's attorney has exactly what you have in front of you I emailed that to him and his reply was thank you and I I felt that you know that was the right thing to do on their behalf to see what I was presenting you folks so if you take a look at the cover page that I've gave given you I briefly outline the documentation behind it this particular property has extreme history in it on many different levels um the exhibit one that I gave you was the tax document showing the the owners of that property which was youing or is ying Auto Recycling LLC exhibit two are the pictures with the date that I found this on January 4th of 2024 um that is the uh HVAC company uh in full force with the bins all the materials all over the ground um you can take a look um several Pages down uh over I should say you will see the Oxford energy uh truck behind the um the fencing it was all their employees there and using the site to the fullest extent Kathy how many photos in total do you have there uh well they're doublesided so one 2 3 four 5 five six there's about 10 or 11 here and again they're double-sided okay 10 or 11 photos um let me just uh want to get these marked because I think we should have a mark record of exhibits um okay so let me let me let me take you would you call it one packet that you have correct what I had done was I had put this piece together in all of your packets as well as to Mr V's attorney so we'll call your packet as you've referred to it as exhibit one okay and exhibit 1 a will be the tax documents okay and exhibit uh 1B will be the uh tener or 11 photos okay and so we'll go on with the other documents and label them cdef as you identify them may I continue yes I'm sorry go ahead so one of the most important documents that I felt was the fact in exhibit 3 were emails of the initial day that I sent to Oxford energy um it's dated uh January 3rd um it was sent all right let's we'll call these emails collectively exhibit 1 C and it's a January 3rd email correct and who's it from and two it is to Oxford energy directly okay okay from you you'll see it says good morning Joe this email comes to you in regards to storing your Oxford energy trucks at the old auto dealership you are not permitted to be there please remove all trucks and any use of the building by Monday January 8th or Court proceedings will start so if you move forward on that is that at the top of that it says is the dumpsters being removed today along with the material on the ground that was to Mr um I'll say Oxford energy again the next page you will see below at the bottom of the page and Mr Vega is cced on it it states good morning Kathy per our conversation last Thursday we removed everything that belongs to us from the site the dumpsters belong to Ricky Ricky being Mr Vega correct thank you Joe and when you read above that it says I guess he was allowing them to be used by Oxford then for the material Ricky when will they be removed as they are not permitted there I feel that one of the most important statements is the one that I'm about to read you all right give me what are we reading from another email yes this is the second page in that document uh exhibit 3 and what's the date of that email January 8th 2024 and who's it who's it to and from uh Mr Vega from you correct okay so Mr Vega emails me back and States one or both will be out today depending on how busy my drivers are and Jerry said he will go back there and be using the property until I find another tenant as this really has messed me up financially this building has been nothing but a headache with the town not allowing anyone to do much making it a really making it really had for business I'm assuming the word is hard but for business people to operate and make money I knew for a fact that Mr Malone was no longer there because he did come to see me as well with that being said you'll see the history behind all these documents their approval for their zoning application when Mr Vega bought the property and I'm reading in regards to each particular piece of paper behind that the hesport zoning permit was on 98 of 22 and it specifically States resale of used auto only Services minor only for cars for resale at site no body work no outside repairs permitted no Towing no junk cars no storage or junk cars or inoperable cars on the site for the business see paperwork in the file and then behind that is the um the handwritten application that was submitted to me along with the fee so as you go through these documents you will see is that Mr Vega and Mr Malone both signed a document on 726 of 22 that states that they Ood all the requirements of the resolutions on this property all right we'll mark that as exhibit D so with that behind those start the resolutions of 1999 when motor pools bought that all right well so we'll categorize the the resolution history that you have in your packet I don't need to go through that it's self-explanatory right and that's exhibit 1e so we have exhibits one a b c and d so where my determination came in Mr McKay was the fact is that I felt that there was enough evidence to show an abandonment issue I was on vacation during for 11 days during the week of uh Christmas time and they had um been in full operation at that point approximately 16 days is what the attorney stated the um the for engineering company correct okay yeah there an HVAC company G um did was Malone During the period that Oxford engineering was in there for the 16 days or so um was Malone um operating or did it appear that Malone was operating any car sales none on the property and what became of all the cars that we typically have seen at that site I can't speak on his behalf where they went they disappeared yes so we had a building at the point in time of your U inspection of it visual inspection of it that W would that appears to have been solely occupied by Oxford engineering and all of their materials and trucks correct all right what's the what's the status of the property today so at at this time they chose to put three cars on the front of this property I made a decision not to take that to court yet because they were told that they were no longer allowed to be there so Malone was Malone was told they were no longer allowed to do Vega correct okay and the fact was is that we did meet with Mr Vega's attorney Bob uh Mr Kingsbury myself um and that meeting ended abruptly uh because there were statements mean that once you start to say certain things is that no longer will I have a conversation with you and when I say that it talks about the fact is that um if you're going to make attempts to intimidate and want to sue the town because we're not allowing you to do what you want that conversation ended and I have that time and date that I ended that conversation Mr Kingsbury was there as well as Mr Vega and his attorney at this point I explained to Mr Harris that I would no longer talk to Mr Vega I would only talk to him as his attorney um and at that point uh which obviously uh he decided that he'd like to appeal the decision which we know they have the right to uh he may got the application from uh Miss tyer to move forward with the appeal all right Mr Harris do do you want to ask the witness any questions well first of all I just want to say that I don't disagree with anything M Nukem not time for a speech only time to ask Mrs Nukem any questions that you want to ask to support your position right M Nukem at any time did you after your discovery of offred Andy's property on location did you communicate with Mr Vega and and have him disagree with with what you asked for did let me let me say a different way I'm sorry did he say no I won't do that no he didn't say he would do it he he understood that they had the leak okay he so while when you asked him and said that there is an inappropriate use on on the site it has to stop and has to be remediated and addressed he then did that corre address it but he also had explained to me that he was not aware that they were there but in his own emails he states that those are his bins that he will have them removed right so he had knowledge that they were there because he gave them the bins so how did he not know that until let's not cut let's let's not cut the witness off please finish your answer so the fact is is that what I find contradictory in this is that his testimony was that he did not know about this until I called him and let him know and emailed when in fact in his own email he states that he will have to have Mr Malone come back and that those bins will be removed by his drivers and that the dumpsters were his according to Mr Malarkey weren't the there previously no sir they're not all permitted there but weren't they there already no they were not you want all right well let's let's have some let's have an orderly progression if you have any other have if you have any other questions if the vins were there previously would that mean that you had seen those bins or that they were allowed to be on the property no they're not permitted we don't allow those bins without site plan approval to be on mean if those bins had been there for you sir they were not there you no further questions yeah all thank you m thank you okay Mr V all right Mr Vega you going to recall Mr Vega to testify Mr Vega you're still under oath take the stand please can you uh talk to the the history of the bins the bins were there because Jerry asked me to put them there so that he can throw some metal Away Jerry is Jerry who Malon Jerry Jerry the owner of Malone yes when when did Mr asked you to put those there he asked me to put them there probably a month prior to that okay and he said he needed them because he needed to throw some parts in there and get rid of them I just never had time to come back and grab them and I didn't even know that they weren't allowed right so if did anyone at any point say to you that the bins needed to be removed uh no not until I received an email from Kathy saying these bins need to be removed and once you reive that email from from this new to remove the bins what' you do they were removed okay so let me let me just make sure I understand the the timing of the B they were there when they were there for around a month completely beginning when I'm not sure exact dates but let's say December whenever Kathy sent the email a month prior to the okay and and after you were told that to be removed how long were they there um approximately 3 days 34 days she gave us 3 4 days to remove them and they were removed the day of in any way did you just do anything contrary to any other request of M no okay uh let's let's let's talk about um I just want to clear up for this board as best we can Mr mentioned our meeting and the BR and um I was there did after M nuk left the meeting did did it end or did we continue to discuss with it continu it continued between me Mr Harris their turn okay you didn't say anything to miss nem that was consulting or inite or or anything other that outside the confines of our this dispute right Mr Harris I I we're not going to consider that anything that occurred during that meeting we're we're interested only in the fact in the facts of the site so I understand I appreciate that I I just want to make make sure the board understand that there wasn't like a fight or that there was no like insult or anything the bo understands that and are not holding that meeting against anybody at all it's not going to be a factor in this decision the board will deal with the facts on the site okay one more thank you one more question if the site is the use of the site is abandoned what can be done uh in the if it's an R1 Zone does it have do have any value to you whatsoever has no value and I purchased a site probably only a year ago would you be able to conduct any business on the no would you be able to sell it to any any user other than someone who intends to use it as an R1 no is there a house on the site no what's on the site um eight Bay garages would you be able to rent it to an appropriate user but who would use it in the way that it's been used for decades no would devalue my property big time would you have to knock down the building that's there now in order to you to put a house on it to use it as an R1 Zone to turn it into R1 yes what else would happen done like to put it to put a house there so it would be used as an R1 demolish it and rebuild it's not so you have to tear down the site entirely and put a build a house yes for it to have any value if the the use is abanded yes because of the subes ACs yes correct okay thank you Mr all right Mr Vega just a couple questions a board member would like to know um if Mr Malone uh or the Malone auto company is still in control of the site under their lease with you yes he is but he is willing to leave the lease if I sell the property because he is having trouble paying the the rent so Malone uh Malone's um activity on the site after the um the Oxford engineering company uh took possession of the building was or has been limited to clearing out the two dumpsters is that correct and put three cars on the property he has vehicles on the property for sale and one person sitting inside running the place that's it and did that continue did that operation one person or a person and a few Vehicles did that continue during Oxford's occupancy of the building yes and it does it continue today yes when you bought this building I think you said about a year ago yes um you bought it uh with the rights to sell Autos out of that building subject to the previous board approvals correct and you understood that correct correct so you bought it with eyes open with that limitation yes with selling Vehicles yes okay and did you come did you did Miss Nukem ask you to come back before this board for any approvals uh in connection with your Pur no all right you understood that you were buying this property subject to the prior approvals and that you and whoever worked for you or was your tenant had to follow the same rules correct correct and as far as you know Malone was following those rules up to a point correct correct and as far as you know Malone then violated its understandings with you by allowing Engineering in to use a portion of the building correct yeah all right any other board members have any other questions I did purchase it in 2022 I believe she stated the exact date when I purchased it well maybe we can just get us Kathy Nukem can we get a May maybe it's just a stipulation as to the date well if not we can't then in the tax program at State sale date of 63022 you all have that in your packet right so does that date uh jive with your recollection corre okay any questions the board members have of the witness Mr Harris I don't want to leave you without Mr M yeah um how do you know that Malone operated continually during Oxford's teny that's what he spoke on and that's what he told me all right so you're only relaying what m is Mr Malone here this evening no he's not I personally went down to the property afterwards when she sent me an email cuz I came down here to speak to her instantly right but you didn't know that Oxford was operating there so how would you know that that's I when she sent me the message I went down there to day to doe the property and so you're operating based on Mr Malone's no I physically seen him in there myself him and right but after Oxford had already been there yes him and vehicles were inside the he could moved back in that I mean she sent the email and I was there within half hour so he moved in and 30 minutes yes okay so there was no conversations you know he was struggling pay rent yes I mean with him and yourself and Malone was there any what did you talk to him about what he's going to do or how could he I did talk to him about what he's going to do and then we spoke about well maybe I put property back up for sale I don't want to go I don't want to go in there I own two other two other junkyards about 40 other properties that I rent I don't have the time to come personally and run every one of my businesses so we spoke about it I said I'll put the property up for sale and we can find another tenant or sell the place and then that's the last we spoke so we understand that Mr Malone is physically there but not paying rent right now yes I haven't received rent in 6 months okay and a reason that he gives me that he cannot pay rent is he tried to put 50 60 cars on the property and Kathy said it's not allowed and if he doesn't have the inventory not enough flow coming in and out of there to pay to rent how many cars could be on a lot I believe she told him 20 20 there was during the course of the years of approvals the previous owner also had to come back several times in order to change some things um but again as Mr M had asked Mr Vega was that did he understand the resolutions and those resol Solutions specifically outlined everything Mr Harris was part of Mr Vega bought that I have emails from i b who was the sell's attorney along with Mr Harris the day that the day that the old tenant moved out he had over 150 vehicles on the property and he's had it there for over 5 6 10 years about the person that you bought the from motorol the person I brought the company from had over 150 cars on the property and we have pictures of that hard to believe you could put 150 cars on that property I'll tell you I can show you pictures of that once there were times when you drive when you cross over the tracks that place was exploding with cars yes I didn't realize there's room in the back and maybe that's where the other cars were but man that place was jammed I mean there were all kind of cars over there and then we were instantly asked to remove a tow truck from the property that I purchased from the owner you intention to have no but 100 vehicles on a property makes it a lot easier when a customer comes into the property into a showroom and walks around and it's easier to sell a vehicle when you have 100 Vehicles versus 20 I I expect not being in the business but I expect that sounds yeah that sounds right but it does violate it made a different it does violate the approvals that that violation of rules that's not your intention or what and my assumption in my assumption in the beginning was I believe that that was allowed there but in your if a third party intends on buying or renting from you in the event that Mr Malone is is out and his intention would be his her intention would be to have 150 cars on site I'm come here to the board and ask for the permission to grant that you you would make it clear to him yes would you not that that's not allowed and to do that would require uh application to this board for permission to do that yes all right I did make it in in the first meeting that we ever had I did make it clear to Mr Kathy that we were intending to put a bunch of vehicles on his property she made no hesitation to say no about that she actually told me that she wanted to speak to person across the street to see if we can have more rental space from him and to have him sign it and that's in her emails that's because motor pools had an agreement with har Vex I took motor pools to this board and it is all record Being question of what he was allowed to do over there I don't know if any of you remember that or not but I put motor pools in violation the attorney was uh Pat MC Andrew came to the board and the board made a decision of what they were allowing to happen over F bidex that wasn't my choice I did my job and put them in violation the issue here is that I feel like we're discussing it we're not discussing the abandonment issue as much as we are whether or not that you could have 150 cars and you don't want to follow a resolution or the fact is is before our with our EAP meetings that we had with Mr Vega um there was nothing said in regards to how many cars he could or couldn't happen have there's is extensive you don't even have half of the information of the history on this property because I didn't feel that it was substantial for my decision of the abandonment of the use of the used core dealership as compared to what was on site with the Oxford energy and the picture show it was in full use and then again the email States Mr Vegas says he will have to go back over there well if he didn't leave why would he have to go back over all right anything else Mr Harris I I have a question did you have a written lease with Milan yes did it say anything about whether some leasing was permitted or not permitted no we didn't have any literature on there yeah I think you told us before that the your lease with Malone didn't cover subleasing one way or the other corre I'm sorry let me just inter it was a it's a all form lease it it may have sent a sublet or assignment language but there was no it's as as I and M will testify there was no discussion as to whether or not subing would be approved or not approved or something I just don't want this board to think that this lease doesn't have that we're not aware of well we don't we don't have the leas we only have the witness's best recollection so on the sublet agreement with uh Oxford was was that reduced to to writing even if it was just a a form lease we're not no this I have known leases well so your deal with Oxford was a handshake you can use I don't have a deal with Oxford rather Malone's deal with Oxford was a handshake as far as you know I would assume you don't know I don't one way or the other I mean you never asked him alone I asked him what he did and he said he was going to pay me money to help me cover the the rent because I'm struggling since I cannot have vehicles on a property if um uh if if this board concludes and I I don't don't know what they're going to decide but if this board concludes that there was an abandonment um what will you do I don't know what will you do with the property I have no clue if if it's if you conclude that it was abandoned I have no clue if it doesn't I have a supposedly I have a closing at the end of the month depending on what this board decides and I will be closed and out of that property with the same use and if they have any issues with you they would have to come up above the board and I would make it clear with them that they have to come above the board they want to add more Vehicles these are the troubles that I had on this town with parking Vehicles there so you right now have a contract buyer for that property on April 30th yes on April 30th and uh that buyer that the use is Remains the use that it's been for decades that that's that's part of the contract that the buyer can continue to operate a motor vehicle sales operation subject to the existing use Township use requirements correct all right thank you thank you uh Mr Kingsbury uh uh subject to your guidance I guess the board has a decision to make well I have some [Applause] comments no uh as Kathy Nukem stated that this is an abandonment case um abandonment is not a bright line in the law as to when an abandonment occurs uh probably the most famous abandonment case in New Jersey history is Saddle River versus bobinsky which is a a North Jersey case in which uh property owner had a horse stable that had not been used for 28 years uh did that constitute an abandonment the court found that it did not because he had kept the stable and usable condition ready to reinstitute uh the stabling of horses so there's a a time element involved uh how much time has to pass for there being an abandonment and what is the intent of the owner of the property is the other Factor you have to consider did the property owner intend to abandon the use of the sale of used cars by the uh presence of Oxford and was there sufficient amount of time that you think that constituted an abandonment it's not an answer I can give you it's that's what the board uh purpose is tonight to make their own determination but you have to consider intent of the owner and the time period involved that's the two major factors in an abandon Mr Kingsbury uh a board member inquires as to whether we got to have public participation in this on this issue no I think it's a basically a legal question to be decided by the board okay and if you um if you had toose the question to the board that have would have to be answered by the board yes or no um it would be whether there has been an abandonment of the property or not subject uh and the the determination of that is based upon the two criteria that you just set forth in uh in the the case if I were phrasing the question I would put it this way did the presence of Oxford constitute the property owner intent to abandon the sale of used car use uh by an inter what we call an intervening use that wipe away the past and not allow them to resume use car business without coming before the board for a variance okay do all the board members understand the question posed I have a question for our attorney I do would be element that time element [Music] yeah did Mr Vega actually abandon the property that's a question you have to the board has to answer despite the fact that he has a tenant who is not paying rent he abandon his right to use the property for the cor okay despite what this the tenant or the subtenant did he's ultimately responsible as the owner of the property well that's for you to decide whether he knowingly did it or not okay thank you if he knowingly if he knew what was going on there that's a fact that you need to consider okay all right so the question's been posed to the board we have a roll call what that's what's the question what are we voting on exactly Mr Kingsbury could you just restate the question that has been posed to the board so the whole board can hear it again this call this property was approved previously by board action for the sale of used vehicles the question is is did the owner of the property abandon that use by the presence of an intervening uh business namely Oxford that the presence of Oxford for the 16-day period and I'm assuming the 16 days is accurate that that constitute an intervening use which indicated an intent to abandon the previously approved use of sale of use cares okay and I'm sorry I have to ask you this but K just make sure the board members understand what are the two criteria that you previously talked about the two criteria are what was the intent of the owner of the property was it his intention to abandon the previously approved use and was there a sufficient time period to indicate that the previous use was aand in favor of a new use I would I would ask that he to make his argument I I would ask that that board consideration also includes the the understanding that Mr Vega upon notice from Miss Nukem as to the improper use sought to and immediately did address that in proper use all M Mr Harris what I'm going to do is this to be fair to you we I wanted to make sure the board understood the question and I wanted to make sure that the board understood the criteria that Council has laid out to us I'm happy if you want to give you two or three minutes to sort of sum up and argue your position okay I don't even think I'll need two or three minutes but thank you uh I I think Mr Kingsbury's framing of the question is correct but I would I would ask that this board also take into consideration Mr Vegas actions upon learning of the use that was outside of the um the intend the intended use the approved use so when Mr Kingsbury's question is did zga or you Auto abandon the grandfather rights this board should absolutely take into account Mr Vega's actions when he was informed of those of those rights if Mr Vega ignored or disagree or this use had gone on for weeks or months or as uh Mr kinsbury discussed with the uh the for years that's a consideration the other consideration would be that what did he do when he heard of it and I think it's clear from the testimony that when he was informed the address uh did he address instantaneously or did it take a few days or did it take 5 days he was informed and addressed clearly that action on Mr Vegas's part is should be a factor in your decision as to whether or not his actions he intended to abandon that use thank you all right Mr Kingsbury just um just uh uh in terms of the mechanics of this um what if a motion is made one way or the other at this point and then the board can either vote uh vote vote the motion up or down um the motion hypothetically would be a motion to uh determine the use not abandoned you can make a motion to uh either affirm uh Miss nuk's determination or you could make a motion to determine that there was no abandon okay Mr M yes have my two minutes as well well Mr nuk I would never deny you the right to to contribute to this board which is it contributions are always welcomed so again I'd like to reiterate the fact that in this email of January 8th from Mr Vega himself where he talks about the fact is that he will get those dumpsters out of there um that he will Mr Malone will have to go back over there until over there and be using the property till I find another tenant as you had asked me was all the material of Mr Malone's gone yes all those cars were gone the fact is is that in this written email from Oxford energy he states that the dumpsters do belong to Mr to to Ricky bega the fact is is that if Mr Malone was always there why would he have to go back over there is a key element in his own writing in this email and the fact is is that Mr Malone could no longer afford the dollar amount that he was charging him every month that he had to get a subtenant my question as well is that would this still be going on if I didn't address it was Mr Vega going to get rid of it on his own or would he still be or would he be collecting money to pay the rent that Mr Malone could not from Oxford energy so if I as a zoning officer did not do my job and I drove by this every day and just ignored it would this still be there because he would be collecting rent and getting his money so I feel that my made my decision on several different issues and the intent was is that as long as I'm getting money from somebody and I and they can stay there that I'm going to let them unless the zoning officer who apparent has been giving him a hard time through his whole entire ownership of this I don't mean I don't think that's appropriate for this board well I do so whether or not what Mr Harris you're you're the statement has been made your objection has been noted by the board thank you I'm concluding you thank you all right so may I have a motion uh from from a member of the board uh one way or the other on this well hearing hearing none I'll make a motion um the motion is to affirm the decision of the zoning board officer I'll second that okay roll call Mr McKay yes Mr Bradley yes Mrs Tori yes Mrs Kelly yes Mrs Bia yes M Costco based on the two criteria that need to be met um I don't believe that what was presented today establishes a strong case that the owner of the facility um made an intentional intent to abandon the property um I do think that the LEC uh was primarily responsible for this um and I don't believe that there was sufficient time period um I do believe that we have the best owning officer here um I do not believe that she is inappropriate in her decision um but I don't want to get into what he said she said here I think that I need to show deference to the owner um um he's established that he's going to be trying to sell the property um the value of this property will be affected negatively uh so my vote is now Mr no my vote is no also because he he has a possibility of selling this at the end of the month and with everything that's on the table the person that's buying it hopefully follows what's what needs to be done so that's why I'm voting no Mr Holden I vote no also that's everyone can I change a vote is it too late because based I I like I I'm listening and I I think that although the owner was responsible I agree I don't think his intent was there I don't think the intent was there um struggled with that um in my mind um even though you were responsible your intent was not there so I am going to change my vote to no and I am also going to as you saw I took a long time to reply because I was struggling and I for the wellp put words of of Paula I no disrespect to our zoning officer I don't think the intent was there nor the time and none is all right so we're clear if anyone wants to change their vote they should speak up now we can we do a new roll call no we don't need another roll call roll call has been completed correct yes what's the count on the vote now five five for or five against five four while five that the uh intent wasn't there was not there correct so the motion fails correct that's correct okay then the Matter's closed the motion fails and um I'm sorry while I appreciate that uh we I just would ask for some clarification does that mean that the Mr Kings I don't want to yeah I I don't want to I don't want to speak toward this for recommendation would be that you have a a motion and a vote to uh reverse the decision of the um zon officer and see how that comes out okay so we we've had a motion to affirm we've had a motion of to affirm the decision that motion fails um 5 to three three 5 to three so the president motion that I'll make is to um what did you say we want to we really want to uh reverse the decision reverse the decision of the zoning board officer and allow the use to continue subject to all outstanding um requirements okay so that is the motion that is now on the floor a yes vote means you're in favor of reversing and letting him continue to use subject to all the outstanding requirements a no vote means you're not in favor of that so we have a roll call can I have a second on that I'm not sure I understand that I'm sure there's some of the other people here that don't quite understand that as well so it means what are we voting on we're going to reverse the decision that was made by officer that said that her appeal or the appeal they won the they won the appeal we don't want to reverse that do we they won the appeal no council has suggested you have you haven't decided that yet I thought we voted 5 to three yeah we want to we that the property no was 53 53 53 oh okay I thought it was a 5 now I don't know that we need a new vote I would just ask for Mr kingbury to clarify that what that vote means so that I I don't think it means anything good to go five Nos and three yes yeah we don't need for vote I think I think the board has been clear I think the 53 vote is clear to the best to the best you could um I just I would just asked I want to make sure that I understand that that that that means that the use as it had been I agree with that I thought it was a t all right that's why we done there yes there were the vote was taken and then there were two changed votes yes so right okay so Mr kri would we need further clarification I don't I would need that the motion was was to uh affirm the decision and the vote was a negative on that yes right I think that's it good vote another vote thank you very much see can get some that's good luck all right um case administrative Amendment um Mr Kingsbury or Miss Nukem Miss uh Mr Kingsbury M Miss Nukem you want to give the board some background on on this this item a Cathy Nukem show again it's always good to see you miss Nukem long time no speak yes so the next application is in regards to Black Creek uh into a fencing that we are looking to do um around the perimeter of the existing houses that back up to this property so with that um many of you have I believe the uh the layout in front of you where that's going uh we do have somebody here from um Archer and gr am I correct mron pleas SP up and we'll have Mr first where you all right can you give us your full namey he is give us your full name the firm you're with who you represent uh good evening for the record my name is Alec fonte I'm an attorney at Archer and grinder and I'm here on behalf of the applicant btc3 hesport LC urban renewal L LLC what are you seeking um this evening we are seeking administrative approval to allow for the installation of a 6' High privacy fence along the western boundary of the property um which ABS residential uses along Main Avenue and Engleside Avenue um the applicant has requested administrative approval to install the privacy fence and will coordinate with the board planner um on revisions to the previously approved Landscaping plan in order to help screen the previously approved sound wall um the applicant also plans to connect the fence to the sound wall um it is important to note that the applicant is making these revisions on the specific request of the adjoining property owners who want the fence installed in order to help protect their properties from trust passers who tend to um walk along the Conrail Rail lines on the northern part of the property as a result the neighbors also requested that we connect the fence to the northern boundary of the sound wall um Joe Fiero uh representative of the applicant has spoken with the neighbors uh who are all fully in full support of these proposed revisions uh Joe Fiero also had each of the neighbors sign statements of ownership consent and support for the project um these consents were shared with uh Paula Costco um if we have extra copies if the board would like to see those um additionally in connection with this request the applicant has prepared copies of the proposed proposed fence sketch plan so if the board would like to see those as well we have copies uh the the consent that you've obtained from the neighbors um how did you determine which neighbors you would include in the consent Arrangement um it's four different properties that are all abing the proposed fence all right um do you know uh do you have an approximate distance uh from the fence or the proposed fence where these neighbors are situated um not a specific number of feet but it's all under 50 feet if I had to guess all right and these are all an angleside Avenue Engleside and Main Avenue both Engleside and Main okay chairman do you mean the offset of the fence from those property lines or the length of that fence the they all the if you look at the plans for the sound wall right I was just trying to ask you were asking about the distance I I believe that the fence line is to run at the property line with those adjacent residences the sound wall is actually set about 20 ft or so into the black creek site so this fence this will be a 6t high vinyl fence on the property line the sound fence will be about 20 ft back in all right so really there's no distance between the houses and it's on the property line is there currently a fence there no what does it say proposed gate to replace existing chain link access there there is a fence that part that we believe there is a fence there it's a it's an access fence that remained from the previous creot the previous owner of the property that's being developed okay that remained there and it was our suggestion and working through this with uh Mr Fiero was to ensure that there was not an access fence at the um I guess that would be the northern part where the end of the sound wall and the end of this new fence which is a long Conrail is closed permanently with no access gate we discovered there's a current access gate on angle side which is where all the property owners are which would provide a better more uh appropriate access for maintenance by Black Creek um since it already existed there as a chain link thank you uh and is it uh is it the agreement uh that you have with um uh with um our professionals that you'll run the the style and the details of the fence uh by them to get their approval yes that is correct Mr we have um this and myself uh had a zoom meeting with Mr Fiero and we discussed the height the color things such as that we went over that with Mr Taylor as well the homeowners and it appears that everyone is in to what we um taking a look at and decide be test which is white white vinyl yeah all right do we uh do we have any exhibits that we ought to identify in support of this um we have the statement of ownership consent and support forms from the four properties of Ting the fence can we make that exhibit a yes all right give that to uh the clerk all right and um is the proposed fence sketch sk-1 also to be an exhibit yes we should make that exhibit B all right we'll make that exhibit B give that the clerk already has that but if you have an extra copy you can give it to her yeah cop all right oh wow Mr Kingsbury uh while council is looking at that any other exhibits that you think are appropriate to put in the record on [Music] this thank [Applause] you [Music] thank you Council any other exhibits that uh Council thinks is appropriate okay uh no chairman thank you all right um yeah I do have one question with the um the warehouse and along the railroad coming south I believe at the B pass there is a there is a cemetery in there is this fence going to are we near there I can't totally picture that can you speak in microphone please there is a um there is a cemetery right near the railroad on the south side of um of the railroad going towards 38 I can't totally picture if this fence is going to be close to where that Cemetery may or may not be um this will not be near the cemetery if you uh everything depicted on the plan is just where the fence to will not be close to it at all okay it's holding on the other side of the site okay well I just I'm sorry I just didn't picture that totally opposite side of the site okay any other questions to the board before I open it up okay um let me just open this to uh any public comment anyone in the audience have a comment come forward to stand at the podium please we'll hear you Council just stay there let me swear you you swear ourm of testimony you give will be the truthful truth Tru we go yes thank you all right State your full name my name is Charles Bloom I uh preside at 204 Engleside I actually have the property for the fence Jets into the chain link area but don't only um problem that I have on the drawing is where my driveway is um where the proposed gate is it actually goes across the road I know I talked to Joe about it and he said he was going to make provision to go up onto the grass and kind of go around that I just want to make that kind of be a fair on record okay so you just wanted to make sure that the the represented little change in the fence will incur will in fact occur yeah he said everything was going to be up to uh uh Taylor and you you know obviously when you go out there to look at it I would have about 5 ft back out of my driveway before I would run to a fence wait I'm confused I'm not aware of this so it's where the existing this isn't on my property line it's it's kind of goofy the way I don't know can I just show you Cassie you're saying if you back out of your driveway where fence is you'll hit that fence and you just want the the the new section of the fence where he with what I agreed to with the property line stuff when it comes in that's where my property line ends there's a weird little triangle piece that goes from so here's my my prop line right here the street comes along here right there and then this full Street this so you want to relocate for an additional I would think I would need to get let me let me just okay Finish relocate some additional fence off of the common property line a little bit further back into the black creek site to allow you access I don't know whose property is cuz it's it say when I pull up my the record from my survey that I got I bought the house in encroaching 2019 there's like I said there's a this little square right here I don't know who actually owns it there it is grass um mine go straight across where where the Pence starts jutting in the Orange Line yeah the orange line when it goes in this section right here like I said it's kind of tough to see this section right here is actually asphalt through now if you look I don't nobody's nobody's going to it's very difficult to explain yes that's that's why I'm suggesting this take a moment with a copy of the plan and draw the issue the points that you're talking about so the road ends up going right to here and then that's all going to be removed okay so there the road right here I believe this is my driveway right my driveway would be right here so I would have about this space to try to get out of my driveway where I believe this is Road this is not my property so I can't sign off on you know his inen go right there like I said I did talk to him he said he had no problem juding along the thing I just I just wanted to be more aware of or on record that uh this was going to be An Occurrence it's it's tough to try to explain without going to the SL OB can we see what you have drawn sure so right right here is my property line they're which is why he he agreed that he was going to put it where the existing train link fence was okay and then that comes that was going to come across I don't know what this section of property is Jo just going to give him the prop because his is that part of side yeah this is angle side yeah but I mean is that property up there part of that yeah uh this is brass right here okay so I don't know or this is brass right here this is his property line so where it comes across where the road ends here there's there's grass right here but like I said my driveway is right here so I would be just going right into the I have about 5 ft of room before I would go into the uh the BL fence so when you leave your driveway now you actually have to drive on onto that adjacent property I'm guing I'm D his property every time I back out of drive all right let's take that sheet the top sheet there and we'll mark it as Exhibit C give it to the clerk I have it already sir because I mean I have it already you have it but the markings do you have the markings yeah no I I think he means no the mark he drew up that have just it would be even help deliver driver to even make it down the road show it to counsel okay to make sure he understands what it is okay yeah what you can see on here the way it's marked out because he has all the properties marked off right here I don't know who owns this triangle of property but the road goes right here my driveway is right here so I would have that tiny amount of space to get out of my driveway so let me ask how does the trash truck maneuver your road backs all the way down how do delivery trucks maneuver your road it go straight down um they do it kind of bubs out a little bit they do a turn into the driveway back up so I think in my conversations with Mr Fiero is is that you know he acknowledged is this request and has provided that on the plan that he's willing to basically grant them a portion of their property to use use and I made it clear you know sort of an informal easement correct and my recommendation is that they formalize that easement because who knows who the next owner is going to be and and you're talking about where the Orange Line shuts on the black Greek property I mean so it almost sounds like what Mr Bloom is requesting is that 10 foot 12 foot offset into the Black Creek he extended further down along just along where the road [Music] is that was I don't he he was able to see exactly what I was talking about can you bring that you're well that's our road okay this this is my property right here the street uh goes right along here but if you so there's this little triangle that I don't know who actually owns this little triangle because the road stops right here that looks like hesport township owns it it's part of angleside Avenue right but it's that's not a that's not a triangle it that's proposed G it's point no right this oh I see this area right here thing here yeah right yep I see it because he put this to my once it stops going on my line that's when he put it exactly on his property line okay but so I have this little triangle piece that's that's been grass but then the road goes all the way to here so this little triangle would be uh still asphalt but his property goes across the asphalt road so if you look right like where I would have to go out of my driveway it would I have this this tiny little bit of area to try to get out of there which is what you have now no there's no no his the chain link fence if you look right yep the existing chain link fence that's there now the chain link fence goes right here and it goes all along here and it doesn't touch the gate for the chain Ling fence is actually right about okay so it's closer to his the chain L pant is actually closer to that sound wall so it's just a slightly dotted there but like I said I talked to Joe and he said that he would be able to J it around there I just wanted to make like I said I just wanted to make sure that it was on here or that I came okay all let me let me let me interrupt you because you know the the here and there and all of that they're never going to be able to figure out what that is in the record but the way to do it seems to me is to have a a site visit either when the fence is being put in or or before the fence is put in um so that the fence can be aligned in the right way but there's another issue and that is um do you need an do you need to give this homeowner if you would uh an easement to if it's if it's needed let me if it's needed to drive over somebody else's property to get his car in and out how do you feel about that Council yes um we we don't see any problem with extending the fence along the way that you insisted um we just have to we need to look at that make sure it's feasible and as far as the easement goes we are in agreement all right um so mechanically how do what's the best way to do this in terms of the planner or the or the or the town's engineer so I I think what we would want to do is um if if the board is agreeable to an additional fence generally along the property line but moving in and out um to accommodate Gates and potentially driveway access that final alignment can be worked out in the field and state I would probably have their contractor um as part of the field change process stake the corners of that property stake the corners of angleside Avenue so everybody is Crystal Clear when that happens because whatever happens in angleside Avenue the township needs to know exactly what and where is happening of if there needs to be some additional pavement and if black Creek's willing to do that but I I think as long as the board is good sort of conceptually with this idea the detail can get worked out but I to protect the town and everybody moving forward that should all be shown on a little sketch um and it needs to be surveyed so everybody in the field knows exactly what's where I would totally agree Mr Taylor Council you you you concur in that yes we and Sir is it do you understand what what we've been talking you're talking about the RO access right and making sure that your complaints or not compl complains but your points are covered and and result I IAL to Joe and the willing to work with us whatever littleit that we do now Council on the easan issue if it turns out that one would be appropriate um how will you address that with the homeowner and I'm not saying it is or it isn't I'm just I'm asking the question yeah um this that'll be sub subject to our client's approval but we'll be able to work it out we understand you'll use your best efforts in that regard yes all right I would also ask the zoning officer for the town and for my professionals is that going forward that we please make sure that we're all on the same page for whatever is going to go on out here and that even means if we all have to meet out there to make sure that we are protecting our residents as well as the town and the applicant so that 2 three years down the road all of a sudden we realize is that none of us were on the same page so I want to make sure that Black Creek understands that yeah I think that's a great idea all right um I'm going to ask if there's any public comment on this item seeing No Hands raised I assume there's none in the audience anybody online we don't have it online tonight no online tonight no the computer is no not working tonight no it's okay it's not required that's all right it's optional all right can I have a motion to approve uh the concept of the of the uh barrier fence um as it is depicted in um the exhibit to this hearing uh um subject to field approval by all parties involved and an the EAS would be up to them yeah is the easement part of the the resolution I would think uh if the this gentleman drives across their property every day it's going to need EAS resolution with between them I would recommend that unequivocally if the fence is going to move and there are configurations that there should be easements the only reason I say that is we've had this happen with other warehouses this could be sold in 3 months and that new owner may not be as agreeable with these owners as Black Creek is currently so if we're going to allow these fences to move in and plants to be planted and and modified and potentially somebody drive over if if there is going to be private use on the black creek site I I think for everybody's protection and eement should be required so then an additional subject to um the planner's approval uh would be the requirement that an easement uh be filed with respect to the end of the fence near the property in question yeah for any of any of the modifications as necessary and that way Marty Bob and I can look at that those guys can review the easement language but there's that final sketch that gets developed can actually also work to point out some of the easement stuff however gets filed up to those guys that way everybody's clear even if black gra moves on right um C I'm going to ask you if if if for your comment on the on the form of this motion only because of the easement addition that was put on just uh by suggestion of council um yeah do you have any you have any alternate proposal on a on an uh uh on a motion I think we're okay with the proposal once we look at the fence again and make the necessary revisions if an easement is needed we will certainly give it our best efforts all right so I'll make a motion just to clarify it that that that the board approves the concept of the fence as proposed in the exhibit subject to uh approval by our planner and subject to the property owner agreeing to and arranging appropriate easements to be filed to deal with the concerns of the adjacent homeowner is that clear enough to everybody all right so that's the motive the motion is that clear to the board it's clear there I'll second it thank you roll call Mr McKay yes Mrs Kelly yes Mrs Tori yes Mrs pagio yes M Costco yes Mr Bradley yes Mr noita yes Mr Holden yes motion passes all right motion passes thank you council did a great job I understand this is your first hearing yes that's correct welcome oh good job welcome to the FR thank you very much I'll tell your grandmother you did a great just what every young man wants to absolutely well you can in the face Miss bad red tell he won his first hearing right a great ad job I just want to know and there's no used cars on this site right thanks Scott all right um can we uh can we look look at the rest of the agenda we've got minutes from um we have minutes from two meetings no we have a regular meeting yes the regular meeting in the reorganization meeting so we have minutes from two minutes two meetings yes can combine do that one voted why because everybody was I think everybody is the same so and I have a motion to approve the minutes from the January 3rd regular meeting and the reorganization meeting I make the motion I'll second all right all roll call Mr Holden yes Mrs bgio yes Mrs tordy yes Mrs Kelly yes M Costco yes Mr Bradley yes Mr noita yes and Mr McKay yes all right we got a bunch of resolutions um resolution 20 24-12 the hesport Family Apartments LLC can I have a motion on that so moved second I second okay we got that uh you can't vote on it did you we got Gus get we have a second here Mr Bradley you weren't here I'll second Mr Bradley wasn't Noor I was here he wasn't here all all right roll call give a second I wasn't here M Hy yes Mrs badgio yes Mrs Kelly yes Miss Costco yes and Mr McKay yes resolution setback variance I'll make that motion second loc call second did you s Miss Kelly Miss Kelly she was too loud never happy you got close I'm not you be that well M Costco yes Mrs KY yes mrsy yes Mrs bagio yes and Mr McKay yes next we have resolution 20 24-14 carajo carpentry Inc I'll make a motion to approve resolution 202 24-14 a second roll call Mrs bagio yes Mrs tordy yes Mrs Kelly yes M Costco yes and Mr McKay yes finally we have resolution 20245 to BTC urban renewal preliminary final site plan uh subdivision approval I'll make that motion all second roll call mrsy yes M Costco yes Mrs Kelly yes Mrs badel yes and Mr McKay yes next we have a number of items of Correspondence what's the board's preference I make a motion that we uh approve and accept the infiled correspondence may I have a second I'll second I'll second uh I think we can do that by uh consent all in favor I I any opposed eyes have it item 10 is professional comments any sir board comments any I have I have a comment thank you uh so I just wanted to speak on behalf of uh my experience with Black Creek through this process um you know Mr Fiero reached out to us and you know he stated he had met with the residents they had his number U from the beginning of this process and went out to the site and was um was affected by the development and the implications on the property owners and he um I just want to commend their uh desire willingness um to do what they can to um work with and help the residents um you know the six- foot fence is to give them relief from from the site conditions obviously construction is going to be going on for quite some time um it wasn't just this issue we also had a concern from a resident that lives in that community a little bit um more inside of the neighborhood uh with some storm water issues uh Black Creek addressed it immediately um mitigated the situation um addressed the storm water issue that quite frankly had been there um for decades with the Koso plant and the way this soil is along the railroad tracks um it's evident that issues been mitigated with today's and yesterday's and the day before rain um but you know they are addressing the residents who are directly affected by this development uh swiftly quickly their communication is amazing they're you know addressing any concerns that we've had up to this point um meeting and communicating with us on a regular basis um the torch has been handed over to Kathy in her office I'm sure and sounds to me like she can say the same thing the relationship has been great um I just want to say for the benefit of Black Creek and some of the background noise that happens with these developments that you know they are um topnotch developer it has been a great experience up to this point obviously we've been working with them for a couple years now through the Redevelopment so just want to say that from an Administration standpoint uh from the township standpoint um and I take a danger of uh speaking on behalf of the residents that you know they they are doing a good job and making sure they're being good neighbors and and and good developers in hesport we just appreciate that thank you Miss K it's very gracious of you to go out of your way to make these comments and um it's nice to know that we have um a responsible developer uh in in in the company just to let you know uh we did receive their construction permits for their two buildings so we are in the process of reviewing them and looking them over and our hopes to have them out probably within the next couple weeks we did receive um the approved site plan thank you Mr Mr McKay for coming in and signing them for uh Mr cifer while he is out so that helped us out a lot while you coming in uh so again as a team effort I think we always work real well well that's the way we want to do it in this town we tried to do it and I think we do do it we do public comments any few members of the public out there no one has any comment now's your time okay no public comments um i' like to make a comment please I'd like to recognize uh Miss Kathy because um even though the first this the first um issue that we had to deal with I would like to recognize your due diligence that you went out there and you saw it right away what was happening on that property and you came back and you presented it all to us and that was you're doing your job you're doing a great job so I just wanted to uh recognize you for that well I'd like to thank the board too as well uh me Mr Kingsbury were kind of uh chuckling earlier on is that in my 20 plus year career this is I think was the second or third one appeal that I had um there were things as well is that I could not bring to light because there were conversations nor would I put that in Jeopardy of anybody um so again I I look at appeals as a fair way that's what it's that's what it's about they have the right to and the fact is is that you folks are my bosses so the decisions that you make I just walk away at the end of the day and go okay it's all good so um I do appreciate you doing your due diligence and considering both the applicant and myself and I think that this this is really what it's about it's supposed to be objective not one side or the other so I appreciate when you are here and time and you look at things diligently and just not make decisions so I thank you for your time thank you Kathy thank you all right uh with that um have a motion to adjourn second second all in favor the eyes have it yeah that there thanks guys couple good questions there yeah absolutely should I'm glad you're here you are yes you did a great [Music] job very thorough everything on the record and is that's is that you're really your grand your grandson or did I miss understand somebody's oh you just know you just know the name cuz he is cuz he is so young I got this for you he is a very good very good I thought you were going to be gone I didn't see you have a great for me my best right guys that area