come on up we got an extra chair ch's on vacation no I'll come up there and let him do all he's he's the boss in the court good evening everyone I'd like to call the April 2nd 2024 24 oh 4th April 4th 2024 H Township budget Workshop uh to order um this meeting is being held with the benefit of public notice as required by the open public meetings act Madam CLE you please call the role Mr PaPeRo here miss philli here Mr Ty here Mr carabell here Mr wh is ask please please stand for the flly and invocation I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God invisible with liberty and justice for all dear God whose love knows no bounds strengthen our hearts with compassion and generosity may we build this Hamilton Community up in all we do may we look to serve you as you had taught us and spread your message of hope and love we make all these intentions and those in the Silence of our heart amen amen amen so there are um I just want to make this uh general statement there are no formal minutes for this Workshop this evening uh this meeting however is being recorded and will be posted on the township website under the clerk's um portion of that website all comments and questions can be submitted in writing um to those uh that would like to do so to the clerk's office so this evening we have uh up first uh we have three departments though I just want to mention we have the Municipal Court police and finance uh up first we have the Municipal Court um and here with us we have um two individuals I'd like you to just state your name if you wouldn't mind um judge and and um and then uh just for the recording and then uh we'll follow up after that my name is lisis sneo I'm the chief judge in the Hamilton Township Municipal Court Jessica Hamill Court director at Hamilton Court thank you both for being here um uh this evening since we're just getting this started I like to just get a sense of where things are at um you know and you typically will give a little bit of a presentation but it's good to have you here this evening um just to get a sense of the 2024 Vision uh for for the courts um where do you think you're at some of the challenges that you face uh some of the Personnel decisions that need to be made um if you could just uh give us a little general overview of that well first of all as always I appreciate being it get the chance to talk M Hamil does all the hard work I get all the glory so it's perfectly going well in the can uh Madam clerk can he is he being ped up okay it's good okay all right um I'm I really appreciate the opportunity to tell you a little bit about what's been going on because we've had some I consider major improvements and some major changes um the big number that always gets thrown in our face from the administrative office courts is drunk driving over 60 days old cases um uh you may recall a few years ago when we were here especially right in the middle of the pandemic and after that for a bit we reached a number of about 229 cases that were over 60 days old now that wasn't our total count those were the ones that in effect we were in trouble from the courts and the supervisory people again with all the respect that they're entitled to between m haml m Whitaker our court administrator and all the deputies and clerks in the office here we lowered that number from that 229 down to 84 um I know you probably don't have appreciation for that the way I do but it was a lot of work and it's not the work of Judge Ellington I it's the work of the people at the court so I just and I recall you mentioning that at your last our last discussion uh budget Workshop so so we great to hear what we've done really is we've had with somebody came up the idea calling it a DWI Blitz and once or twice a month we're literally taking one session and or a whole day in the case uh we have it coming up in fact uh the end of this month the 25th again a morning and afternoon session where we put on 20 to 30 DWI cases now they don't all get disposed of that day but it Focus the attachment of the prosecutor's office that these cases need to be looked at they're older they may have some difficulties in them we got to resolve those difficulties and hopefully we're going to be able to resolve them then the following month or two weeks later and that's worked out um how you do that it's just hard work and like I said the credit goes to the group for doing that we've also continued with our Domestic Violence Court twice a month I had a session judge Ellington has a session um we've had great support from Folks at Women's space I think they think we something special but it's not us they're the ones that are something special uh Miss Hamill and I will be having a um a meeting with them uh by Zoom where looks like about once a year I think it is twice a year now twice a year now we're uh we have a zoom meeting where I go over with these new volunteers and they are volunteers that will go out in the middle of the night to the police stations and meet with the victims right there at the police station to give them advice counsel they need these volunteers give their time I don't know how people do this you know volunteering their time in the middle of the night but they do do it so we're very happy twice a year to go through with them these new people we're giving them a little initial update as to what goes on um how it works what the police function is what the function is at the court what support they're going providing and how's that going to be used so twice month though the folks from women's space are nice enough to come into the court and they counsel the victims of domestic violence I'm constantly having to tell defendants in court and we all know the statistics they believe it's six seven times usually a victim of domestic violence has to go through some kind of physical assault before they are ready to walk away why that is I don't know cuz I'm not in that situation but those are the facts so what that we do is we make sure the victims come into court for that domestic violence case involving the defendant where they get that counseling right then and there so they've talked at the police station and now they get a talk to again about what the resources are available to them I always have cases that come up the police have done their job they've arrested a guy he's been in jail for a day or two he now comes out appears in front of me and says the charge can be dismissed because the victim wants to dismiss and I have to go through every single time with them that this is not the victim who filed this complaint it was done by a member of the police it's going to be the police officer and the prosecutor making the decision whether or not a case is going to be dismissed we highlight to that defendant how important we think it is I'm going to do it today a gentleman explained that in front of me if you're a defending you're convicted of a domestic violence you will go to jail they're going to have a fair trial I promise you that I found people not guilty but and I know it happened a month ago it was in all the papers that's not the first time it's happened in the court where I've been 20 years ago down in Trent two officer shot going to C scene of domestic violence and it it to my mind it might be the most serious thing I do is domestic violence I know DWI has all the publicity but doest domestic violence is a such a serious matter and wrecks people's lives wrecks children's lives and you know I I thank Police Every time I get up the phone with them at 3:00 in the morning for a TR the last thing I tell an officer he safe so we're still doing the domestic violence but now I got something new to talk to you about because I hope we never stop and with Miss Hamil I know she won't stop until we have everything the way we need it uh a year and a half ago we had a meeting with the county because the state of New Jersey and with people was there obviously at that time for for the oper help for hope when they initially told us about it um about a year and a half ago the state appropriated $2 million to be used for a pilot drug court program here in the state of New Jersey now the Superior Court County court has had a drug court program to two or three decades now it goes back probably into the 9s but it was never done in thisal court we never had that option well they the state took $2 million out of the Purdue Pharma opioid op opioid settlement sorry and out of that money they appropriated that money for six courts in New Jersey for your information there are over 500 municipal courts in the state of New Jersey out of those 500 courts and the 21 counties they picked six counties Mercer County was one of them and out of all the counties uh all the courts excuse me in the county of Mercer they chose Hamilton Township for the pilot program I've been telling people from the bench when I opened Court about the program obviously and I've made the point that these folks that work in the court our director our administrator our deputies and reg CLS they work hard every day extremely hard and if you don't believe it come and visit us sit with them for a couple hours and see how they're constantly doing something there's no sitting around playing on your phone their lives their work ethic really never gets recognized but I was so proud When I Was Heard we were chosen as one of these six courts in the state of New Jersey to be a pilot for this program I think what it showed was how we were recognized the court I'm talking about in terms of being the court that gets things done and does things the right way so it endures to your benefit as well that you can be proud of the fact that this court is working so well that we're being recognized by the Attorney General of the state of New Jersey to be one of these six courts now we just started it our first uh court session was in January so the Tai one January February March April yeah the April is coming up on end of this month as of the end of March we had 42 people who had been admitted into the program of the 42 32 are doing extremely well um everybody including the counselors are shocked at how well it's going of the 10 that weren't doing well six of them also came to court where they got a little bit of a talking to in the back room from the counseling people and indicated to me on on the record that they wanted to try to continue addictions a terrible thing you know we're not going to have a lot of successes you know I've been interviewed with people down at the John's Hopkins University uh at the start of this program and I guess I'm going to be interviewed at the end about how it's going to work and are we going to be successful and I told them honestly I don't start anything unless I'm going to think I'm going to be successful so I told them it will work now they're suggesting 15% doing well I told him I'm I'm up in the '90s I want to have 90% of people graduating in effect from the program and at the end of the program the benefit to them is they get their charge dismissed so in any case we're in the middle of it right now um the program involves anybody that has a drug charge but the state of New Jersey increased the program and said that now I've been using the example of a person who shoplifts at Walmart God knows they have enough shoplifting but if you're shop RI at at Walmart and you're stealing baby formula now you're stealing that not because there's a baby at home you're stealing that to buy drugs using that formula and if that's the case you're also eligible for this program I've also been told I don't know whether or not I'm doing the right thing with this yet but I haven't told me not to do it um that I have the ability to take people that aren't even with criminal charges but want to participate now they're not going to get any benefit from getting a charge dismissed because they don't have a charge but they are even being allowed into this program to get the resources to get off drugs we've even accepted a couple people now from Lawrence Township because I was helping out of Lawrence Township the last month and we got a couple people from there that are wanted to get into our program as well so again I I just look upon it as a reflection on the quality of work that's being done here and like I said it's it's I promise you it's not me it's not me at all I don't deserve anything it's the work here that the people are doing so again I thank you all for the opportunity to be here and we'll talk a little about money I guess as soon as you're ready thank you judge I appreciate uh that overview just a quick followup on that uh program it's a monthly monthly um seminar that you have or session that you have uh that takes place and when will that uh be completed how long is the the lifespan of this program they really didn't give us an end date I think they're looking upon it as maybe about a year rough okay maybe going through December um and again the work I do is that once a month we have a session the fourth Monday of each month at 8:30 in the morning and I just kind of either just pushing people okay you're doing great we'll see you in two months we'll see you in three months or Hey listen you haven't done well you know you got to pick it up I'll see you next month get a better view um I'm hoping that we can show some results because my hope is if we do it well and do it right the state's going to spread this all over the state of New Jersey um the good news if you were here for a budget meeting it's not costing the township any money okay so Bey with that um but the numbers can the numbers can fluctuate depending upon the people that exit the program for a variety of reasons maybe they're successful in moving on with their life or or you bring in new folks to the program yeah we're hoping that and again how long does it take someone to get rid of their addiction that they probably had for 10 years 15 years I don't know okay so this we have the expt didn't mean interrupt so this provides counseling for drug offenders or people with offenses related to their uh drug use and um it's it's a program where they have to meet a required set of actions or metrics or attend certain number of meetings or whatever the case may be counseling sessions so who's providing the counseling okay good um we have three folks that we're working with right now the lead guy is Mr Alexander um he's the main contact Point um he's got a some kind of contract from the state of New Jersey I'm not involved I don't know it we I met this past month a gentleman Mr Dean uh for the first time he's also counselor and we've had Miss Braun who was a is retired from the state po or probation I I believe but anyway she's giv counseling too now we of the $2 million it was divided among the six courts so there's only $333,000 available for this program okay um the chief I know we had a question about that because we both know if you uh go into a um treatment center for 30 days that's going to be like $30,000 so legitimately we could have helped about 11 people but what Mr Alexander and staff are doing is they're dealing with a person on an individual basis they go to them do you have insurance do your parents have insurance for you um you know they'll look for a group the City of Angels they have here in Hamilton um we just got another one didn't we didn't you have that was not for homeless oh that was for homeless okay I mean there there are a lot of these groups out there so what the cantors are doing they're reaching out to these groups they cost us no money so we can stretch out that 332,000 in a longer way um I something go ahead so one of the nice things about this program is you know and by the way not to interrupt but you're both welcome to sit for the rest of your that's fine sorry Jud I wanted to tell you as well thank you I appreciate you got of so I just wanted to add to that um anybody who knows anybody or has ever been affected Ed by um addiction understands that when these individuals are in it and when I say in it it's the idea that they're at a point where the addiction has taken over their lives they are not at a place where they are even mentally able to call these rehabs call the insurance company we all know we've all been in that place for just dealing with insurance companies whether it be for yourself your children so they take all of that work off of them um and the expectations each individual has a different requirement um the way that Mr Alexander explained it you know one drug comes out of the system quicker so they may not expect as me much from them versus heroin takes a little bit longer for you to recover from that um but what the way that I explain it to people I'm incredibly passionate about this I think that this is something that needs to be put into courts any kind of incentive for people to want to get better but you have to keep in mind I think that the individuals that are really going to benefit from this are those that are younger who are maybe just starting out with addiction before they get to the point where they've lost their home they've lost their car they've lost their job they've lost their family and they're out in the streets but the idea is to get them that Health before they get to Rock Bottom um it's been wonderful in some ways and it's been hard to see in others it's very difficult when you have these sessions to look out and see 40 addicts who they currently still be using that are nodding out in the courtroom but it's rewarding to see how many people are willing we've even had defendants who called their girlfriends who are the victims in a lot of their cases to come so they can get the help together so I My Hope for this is that it will create a bigger conversation amongst municipal courts um and I I I think it's doing really well we've been told out of the six courts we have the highest people um involved which is wonderful and I gave you guys all that there so you have the information you're more than welcome to share it with people U that kind of gives you a little bit of breakdown of what it is the phone numbers who we're working with and um as you know the chief's been on these meetings I think it it definitely has the ability to become something really special it's definitely challenging because you're dealing with you know the counselors getting calls from all all different people and I just get shot in email with memes and a lot of these mes don't even have cases here in Hamilton but I have to say they've been wonderful and I I I have high hopes for it and really if there's any of you that think you know of someone that needs help give us a call we'll get them in the program even if they don't have a charge you'll get them some help because now finally after all these years we have some ability to help people that's yeah I I just think um I want to thank you for uh kind of filling Us in on that program and anything that can potentially reduce the burden on the courts reduce the burden on our police officers and our First Responders and improve the quality of life for these folks you know um is a win and if it's 15% you know what that's 15% better and it's a tough statistical fight uh like you said judge you know if if the hope is obviously we would love to see 100% success rate right but I think it's a feather in the cap of our Township and our courts our First Responders uh that we were chosen for this program so thanks thanks for uh filling Us in on that I like to think that you know there's a punitive nature in court being a judge the successes and it's not just been here it's been in my past where I've seen even uh cases involving CR stitution where I saw a young woman at the very bottom and we were sending her to jail and a couple years later I saw her and she looked wonderful and she came up to us it's funny I I've actually had defendants over the years come up to me on the street which was very upsetting to my wife usually when she's with me but they've actually thanked me that I sent them to jail they finally hit the bottom they needed to hit to get the help they needed until now we have me give the help in court so my hope is that we'll be able to do more than we've ever been able to do before judge if you have any um people that you have problems getting scholarship for or any of that I work with uh three or four groups out through my full-time job and we routinely get people in the places who say they can't so if you have any issues uh through my job at the sheriff's office I can help you with that thank you all right we'll make sure that Mr Alexander gets your number and as you said it's it's never about me it's the work that these counselors are doing that the staff is doing so please other other face everybody sees I [Music] know and we don't have a date as of yet but I know that the Attorney General is going to come to our court to kind of just watch how our session goes sit and observe they're still working at a but that's kind of exciting for us because again we want this to be successful whether it be 10% 15% 5% I don't really care I'm not as um I don't want to say I'm as hopeful I may a little more realistic uh but I I see it's better than it was before so if there's any Improvement I'm I'm good with that Jess has promised me that she'll let me know far in advance when the Attorney General is going to be there so I'll be on my best behavior I promise um just one other uh thought like do we have any idea if this is something that's going to be a sustainable program that they're going to you know I know they're looking at a pilot program but I'm looking at it as a as a budget item if there's success there is that going to fall on us as a municipality than to pick up the I I don't have again the Attorney General is here you be welcome to come and talk to them about sure see if you an honest answer what's it so um any other qu any okay I just wanted we'll just jump into the numbers right now um I wanted before we get into um the particular budget line items that we have here for the courts I just wanted to um I have a quick question regarding the revenue side um and I saw that uptick from 2023 not much not to where I want to be where you want to be what is it 700 and something 716 716 roughly 76,000 but it was was down in the $500,000 range right we should be in 2023 in my head and again this is just me and I know I'm kind of crazy about this my true belief is that we should be up around $100,000 a month okay um clearly the problems only are where they've been um the numbers are down and can't do anything about that really just deal with what's given to us um the numbers come up in tickets file things like that then obviously the numbers go up um I don't think function of much more than that um I think overall think Mr art who's the manager division manager he said that generally they're up about 40% Yep they're up about 40% since really where we were kind of at the end of the pandemic pic so I think that accounts for some of the increase in so now we get those numbers up obviously then our numbers will up we really have little or no control of it a lot of the tickets are State Police they get all that money we split the revenue from our local officers tickets half with the county half with us similarly with criminal charges our officers half goes the county half goes to us and the state police money just goes to the state I I also think that there's aort part of it that we may never see those numbers that we've seen 2020 and and earlier on what they've changed everything as far as the way the court so a lot of that money that we would see some of that would come to bail forers right so people's people would post bail and then not show up in court and then we would forfeit that bail and that money goes to town well they're not really allowing us to issue benchmarks like they once did um it's kind of painful we had to how we even have to get it we the increase that I think that you're seeing is we kind of tried to work our way around the rules um one of the things that they implemented and it's crazy but we had to schedule uh if say you have a careless driving payable traffic ticket where before if you didn't pay it we would then suspend your license well they've take that taken that ability away from the courts we're not allowed to suspend people's licens okay then we couldn't issue bench warrants so then they said okay you can issue bench warrants but you have to schedule that person four times within 90 days so now you're putting us in a delay right so once we get that we can then issue a bench warant so those are more for the cases where people are pleading not guilty that are on our radar we decided to go the extra mile we send out every three days a week I think we do payable FTS payable figure to appears and this is just a hey you have a payable ticket that you haven't paid that's why I need to pay this we give them 4 months her the rule and then we don't have to ask for a warrant as long as we schedule it four times in 4 months we then issue the warrant so we've been very um good at hitting those numbers and just pushing that because really that's the only recourse we have for people there's not much else we can do so I think some of the money that has gone up that's part of it we're getting payable tickets paid by issuing a bench warrant very small amounts but still hey you have a warrant for $100 oh okay I need to pay this now and it kind of it's an incentive to get people to pay so that was our way around not being to suspend people give me a sense of what 2019 looked like in Municipal Revenue though how far off were we that you mentioned 2019 I would I would like the judge said I would most most months probably 110 115,000 some months were I think the average that I look back at and I don't have the numbers right now here with me but I look back really those times back in 2019 and they were running 80,000 90,000 a couple months over 100 um it's varies it month to month and that's what I'm saying I I think we could get up to an average about 100,000 a month as I possibly could be I'd be satisfied that seeing a number that I think would be appropriate I know that the M Court not supposed to reue generate and I know that's the r we're supposed to dispensing Justice and I always felt that Municipal Court should at least be able to pay for itself right um probably end up getting disbarred for saying that but at the same time that's kind of the way I always looked at right right I appreciate that um just one quick question other on the revenue side I noticed that there was a municipal court in alcohol line item that was there for like 24,000 $41.40 in 2023 I don't see it in 2024 what was that was that a grant of some sort yeah the beginning and when we introduce the budget and we adopt the budget we have very few grants that we haveed for the year yeah thank you and when we introduce the budget and we adopt the budget you are going to see that is they there are very few brands that we have received throughout the year those are the resolutions that you approved throughout the year to insert those grants into the budget so the last year a we took a good almost $6 million in Grant throughout the year so it's it's very very different and you can see in the revenue I believe in section but the expectation is for this one that we are not going to receive it in 2024 we will no I think we will we're just not allowed to put it in the budget until it's awarded to us once they get their that's what eug is talking about it'll come to you for as a chapter 159 159 find a b we're very lucky because we are one of the highest we High receiver of grant money even was in transon so we have and we can only use that for certain things that's where it gets difficult okay um but yeah we should I just was making sure that it wasn't we are in line to receive that again we don't have any indication that we're not going to receive that concern we just don't know what the amount is yet okay any other questions from the revenue s my Council colleagues taking a look at at that okay let's jump over to what are we calling this the um o and and and salary and wages um for the courts any questions uh I I'll go on page two I'll jump in on page two um there was um other professional consultant um a line item for roughly 50,000 um that was maintained um I'm just looking at this there was okay I made a note here that there was um it looks like in 080 this is 028 I'm referring to but in 080 uh which is on page four there were CC fees were being taken out of o28 putting the money in the correct code for 2024 um so that's six was that roughly 6 thou is that 6,000 credit card fees were being taken up so our expectation is even with that fee that we feel we need to have 50,000 in that category just if you notice look at the column um I don't need to interrupt I'm sorry judge um and Jessica um if you look we actually budgeted 62,000 028 last year right so they reduced that by the 12,000 to 50,000 50,000 and then they've increased it they've just shifted 6,000 of it over into the other other line item okay does that make sense yeah no it does yeah they're just sort of reclassifying just reclassifying it also part of that what comes out of that is um and we we've discussed this before in our meetings that's part of for our fee for visiting judges in 2020 2021 22 there wasn't a whole lot of traveling but I can tell you that Jud and judge Ellington have lots of days scheduled I've got the coverage so um she grabbed me out well he's been waiting to take trips so that money you're going to see a big jump of using that money because now we're using a lot of visiting judgment okay and I can call I warned you folks that I had not taking trips in a couple three years you did you did you're not taking any credit you're going on trips let me see that salary wa as far as the credit card fees too um you know we hate the idea of losing money like that but I can tell you just from today I had a young man standing in front of me it $630 and I looked at I thought we're never going to see this money and he looked at me and said did you take you take credit cards I said of course he walked right out and paid I was like right thank God for credit cards so um I hate to lose the money but I'll tell you the buing take that's great and just to add to that also they are not allowed to pass any of the fees to the residents to the pay so we have to absorb the credit card fees there okay we're trying to change that legislation but it'll be a long time before they do so judge on the first page uh the last 017 the last one on page one what is standby okay so so my deputies do a rotation of being on call so they are on call Monday through Sunday 7 days a week from the minute they get out of work all through the night so every contractually every uh Saturday and every Sunday they get 12 hours total for the weekend standby pay that we must pay them what is the what's the amount that you pay for standby how do you calculate that it's 12 hours times whatever their uh rate is okay so they get six hours for Saturday six hours for Sunday thank you how are you doing on your um um just employment numbers and and new hires and things of that nature we're doing really well um we have now two Spanish speaking employees which has been so helpful for us because we can really help a lot more people rather than using our phone Google translate all the things that still were not very good things have been going really well good I saw the two part- timers in there that are going to get a little yeah I uh my security guard has asked me multiple times and I I feel like he's been there so much and he has done so much for us he goes over and Beyond just security he really uh kind of keeps the court floating and the way it needs to helps the prosecute or public defender and I followed what my employees got the 2% rais and I which was only 50 cents but I still feel like showing him that I'm fighting for something is better than nothing so that was important plus uh lawence Court wanted to coach him so I want to keep him here but he's that good so reason to try to steal him from us he literally does much more than stand with the wand and do this the door just at lunchtime today he was using the paper cutter to cut up papers that we use for pleas or the money we use paper that we use little slips to send out to the payment window uh he goes above and beyond and really a very valued employee so an extra 50 cents an hour is that is that is that sufficient yeah that's I know he would like more but I don't want to prom I gave I I want to I can't remember the exact amount I would have say maybe it was $2 last year that I gave gave him because he had never seen over any raises in over 10 years but it's 50 cents I mean is that it's two it's 2% so 2% it's not even a dollar trying to B the rules who were follow I they had spoken to other directors and they said good luck getting part- Tim aranged so I was trying to be uh mindful of that mindful of that the the is a prior employee who had retired she's come back to help us out and she is working on I specifically asked her about it today I know you probably didn't hear me I said Lisa how old are these files that you're going through every day and they're literally probably 30 or 40 boxes of papers she said some of them even go back and as far as the 1980s and a large number from the '90s so these are just documents that have been in storage yeah I I brought back about 165 box boxes out of Doc sa um because I don't think that's ever been done they send everything there they never actually bring it back to get rid of things and we pay for the storage we pay for that storage so she's been going through everything she knows all of our retention schedules she's been shredding whatever she can um and that way I think we're out of all those boxes so far we only have 10 that need to keep so she's every day she's doing that she helps with the boxes she helps cover the windows that she was the violations clerk for over okay 30 years excellent don't say it too loud the clerk will steal her I know right so again we're trying you know in any way we can to help out save a little bit of money on the storage charges you give these people a little bit of a raise to kind of keep them motivated to keep help I I also just wanted to mention because I noticed there um the one line says uh student assistant if you um we should maybe Jessica um or or judge keep the lines of communication open with as it pertains to we have a summer at the county level we have a summer youth program where I I know that Hamilton has used in the past some of the students that come out of that program uh for I think inspection purposes but if you ever need had a need how about that let me know and um um you know it their hours are are stipulated by the uh State grant that it's under I think it's 4 days a week it's not five uh but there's training on that fifth day uh but the the through the state we cover the cost of that program uh so um it may be something that if you if you ever need additional assistance uh these are I think they're 16 to 24 year olds so I would love that and not only for us but I I one of the things I hear from many younger people is I can't get a good job CU I don't have experience so any way to even help them out to be able to put that on the resing that b intern of the court or whatever I would love that and potentially we could give you like maybe a hamiltonian someone you know who lives in this town so that would be something that would be you know a good connection there winwin yeah to let you know um 3 four years ago when I started I was interested in maybe bringing in a young person to help uh the prosecutor just Pap moving things around going getting Jud I'm sorry can you just move um so 3 four years ago we tried but I at time that one person who seemed to have the interest wasn't adult we could have uh he actually came last year and worked with the prosecutor pretty much the whole summer um just helping out the prosecutor didn't get didn't get paid for it but again doing it for experience and I actually just ran into him around town last week and he came out where he was and shook my hand and I said do you want to do it again he said oh yeah sure I said well and as soon as you're done School come over we'll get you started again working with the prosecutor so the idea is there I'm going let you us handle the clerk's office as I always do I try and stay in my Lane as they say so I'm going to go back to this part-time employee 50 cents an hour comes out to a $600 raise in a year if you work 25 hours you can't even I mean you can't even pay your bills with that I don't no I I understand am I the only one that thinks this well he's also a part retired part-timer and it's um in line with what the union employees are getting am I understanding that right say that again yes it's in line with what the union employees are getting a full-time employee if you were getting a 2% raise on $26 is actually 52 cents so it's a little less all right it's a little less than 2% you're right the other person's getting a dollar raise I can't see why we wouldn't do the same for the other person why are we not treating them equally I would love that I just was more afraid to uh ruffle any feathers I'm sure we canot order some Staples and get the guyll so how how was the one individual going from 20 to 21 per hour cuz that's not 2% how they're just requesting it it's not 2% I mean how they're asking to she has not received any raise at all whereas Eric last year did receive no but I guess my question just you use 2% with the one and then do you use 2% with with well she also mentioned that the security guard had gotten a raise last year percent just a determined amount okay okay Eric had a conversation with me in the fall and asked if there was a way that he could like the other employees receive a yearly raise right so having that in mind I didn't want to make the raise too large cuz the expectations for him is that every year he will see an increase so these two positions are not covered by any Collective barain Agreement so we just trying to go along with that but that's how you know it happens that somebody goes without a raise because they're not covered by collective bargaining and agreement and then and especially with the part-time R we don't always pay the same attention to them that we do so to speak whether that's fair or not but that's what happened so we were advocating for um the security guard last year and then tried to keep that that position kind of on a regular schedule but you know you don't have to stick to the 2% or a little less than 2% um could de to do something a little different we just we just heard how they bragged about his what his job he does wonderful great employee and I just don't see a problem with giving the full dollar some of these instances is kind of say okay well what's the market out there right how how close to the market not only what would it be for us to what would we have to pay if we had to replace this person because we might not be able to get somebody in for 2650 an hour right if this person does go um let alone doesn't even speak to whether we get somebody that's as as good right or qualified um so but I I'd also be curious right like what are some of the other towns paying for their security guards and maybe we you know we can look at that and do a little research and and bring that back to I can tell you Lawrence Township for years pre pandemic paid two security guards I don't know what they paid them uh when the pandemic happened and they closed the courts for live uh those two people left and you got other jobs apparently and now that Lawrence Township wants to open up the courts again those people weren't available now they've had to hire a service which I'm certain would be more expensive than the individual Eric that we have yeah I just to kind of also I do want to mention Eric does work pretty close to 40 hours a week he works about I would say 30 34 I mean it's pretty how many part-time employees do we have roughly roughly John I didn't mean to put you on the spot so it depends we have a lot of seasonal and so we throw that in together time and seasonals and so it's a large number because of the seasonals I don't know how many permanent part- Tim we have okay it wasn't a huge number but we do have others as well I mean I don't think it's going to significantly this is a question for the administration if they want to change that number to 27 rather than 2650 but um I mean I don't think it's going to really affect much the salary and wages but that's a conversation that um you know I I also worry that if somebody like Lawrence or some other town right not to Target that particular Town starts offering somebody more money and we lose a good employee and now we're searching for somebody and how long do you spend searching for somebody the guys doing a a job outside of a court it's not you know it's a little more important than a than a typical part-time job I don't think we have any other security might if I could just add one element to this too the the administrative office of the courts requires them to have security and if Eric is not available or Eric decides to take another position at a at a higher rate has to be hired by police officers has to be filled by police officers security issues have to be hired has to be filled by police officers which are at a substantially higher rate than we're talking about here with Eric so just just to make that point as well that you know there there are other options but it's a whole lot more expensive more expensive thank you Chief what's our what's our recourse well you can you can add or subtract anything to the budget that you want yeah we're not making any final decisions today actually we're just hearing you out right so and that's thing I think after this and and least what we've done in the past is you kind of gather together what your recommendations are and you submit those and John Tak them down and yeah figure those I think the chief made a really important point right we're going to be paying for it one way or the other uh and if it has to be police officers certainly uh that's a much higher rate than uh what we're currently paying thing right you're all you're doing is setting the budget for it that allows for the employee action to take place later so we still have to go through and approve process if you decided to put in a a larger amount or whatever I you may not even have to change the budget I don't know we'd have to look yeah I don't know if he need I don't even know if he need to change it you decided to do that just because it's in the budget and I tell employees this all the time there's promotions in there that are recommended and things like that just because it's in the budget doesn't mean it's approved all it means is that there's a vessel for it to be funded it's possible if right if that it's approved so after the budget's approved then directors would come to us with an employee action form and the mayor who's the appointing authority would end up making that final decision and actually goes through several departments first and then so and I and I think not to put this in your La Jessica but I think you have a a better you have a good sense of of of your office and and the way it to manage it and and um the needs of your employees and and and um if there is any interest outside of working outside of Hamilton and looking for other opportunities so you you understand that so if I think the councilman peraro makes a decent suggestion for me it seems seems to me it's a it's a decent suggestion you're only going have 50 cents so maybe per hour so maybe maybe there is some consideration there but I don't want to influence what you feel is a good decision I would absolutely love to um um like I said I I aimed lower because in fear of it being denied because I know last year we gave him I I can't remember right now if it was $2 or $3 increase to to so I didn't want to you know where previously the director before me all the time he was there he received nothing you see what I'm saying so I didn't want to go too high and ask for too much when before me he had nothing yeah if it turns out that we're able to do it the part-timers can thank you because you came with a really tight budget to us you were able to reduce your expenses by uh almost 30% on the OE line uh so you came with a very frugal budget uh so if there is room to do it they can thank you for being uh so diligent with these numbers and uh maybe makes it the exception to the rule as opposed to let's just hand out raises to everybody uh from the front of the room today so um so that was actually going to be my conclusion statements was just to say thank you for keeping it so tight this year uh and and being mindful of our our taxpayers with uh such a such a tight budget so thank you of course and and I don't I hope it doesn't seem that I'm belittling Eric At All by not getting him over raised because honestly he does so much for us he's wonderful he always has an open line of communication with me uh if he were to if another Court would to reach out to him he would come to me he would come to me be very up front and say well this is what they want to give me as he did last year so I I think if that were a situation that occurred he would come and speak with me before he would make a decision because he loves it there I mean okay not to sound corny but we are a family I mean we deal and we're under a lot of pressure every single day so we depend on one another him included and he keeps us very safe he he really cares about our safety he is always in that courtroom he has a great line of communication with any officer that's working inment with him so I mean I can't say enough good things about him I'm very lucky with him he knows cour I mean even a simple thing I'll have two defendants that hate each other in front of me and all of a sudden there's ER standing between them and Eric 6 6 66 66 or 67 so he's a Pres as well and he does it very quietly and I don't know that people notice I me I noticed it because I see him doing it and moving around the courtroom if he knows that somebody's a problem come up and judge this guy is a problem uh you may want to get him out but if I called up then Eric's right there as well of course we have the officer there as well but um he keeps everybody safe the ladies there in the court thank you well any other questions I think that uh that really does it I think that I want to thank you once again with the councilman Tai said about your budget I think it's uh extremely uh sorry those pH those sell phones in court right you know what judge that's straight three so um back so I just want to waiting to do that I want to thank you Jessica for your budget this evening um I want I was going to say thank you to the judge too for um all his work I know he's being humble tonight but I'm sure he does a great judge thank you um thank you as well I know you're you're showing some good humility here but I I know you you do a y's task and uh um and Jessica thank you for uh presenting with for us a budget that's you know I usually have a lot of questions but I don't have qu uh too many on that one well not not to quote judge Sano when I need it I'll ask for it okay thank you I appreciate that thank you all right please be safe have a great day we didn't talk send send my business card with my number no but there's nothing there that I had it's one line it's we're still recording oh sorry no no I'm just saying we're still recording yeah just be aware oh you do yes bye judge yeah I I didn't have any questions only thing it's just uh it's just the salad yeah hello chief how are you this evening good evening lady and gentlemen of council and house and Cathy it's great to have you here um you know all of us had a chance to digest a little bit of the budget this year um if you want you can just just give an opening statement any highlights any challenges um present some of your concerns or ideas and uh and we'll go from there well it's been an interesting uh first first year for myself and for for lieutenant gold as well uh this has been a huge learning process for us uh this is the first my first budget cycle obviously and uh in terms of the overall welfare of the of the PD if you recall my uh my statements uh on my during my swearing in I was hoping for a boring term of uh boring tenure as chief of police and I don't think that's quite worked out that way but um all things considered it's uh you know with the exception of our incident from last month it's been uh things have been running pretty smooth I have some fantastic people working for me and uh I think we um meet or exceed expectations I hope of the citizens of Hamilton and of yourselves and uh we've had a a number of uh initiatives that um I instituted upon coming in on the 1st of June and the uh most important of which I think and just piggybacking on on what judge sanito was saying with with his drug rehab uh program is that on the enforcement side I've I've I've changed our anti-crime unit into more of a of hybrid drug enforcement weapons enforcement and and and and gave them the authority and the ability and the resources to go out and and really uh enforce uh drug distribution weapons distribution and and during the course of that of course we also pick up a lot of individual users as well that we've referred to them and um it's it's been it's been pretty successful our our arrest for drugs are up are are we've had some really high-profile arrests as well the anti-me unit had the recovered those five pipe bombs last year uh and things like that they've really done some fantastic work and as part of that also um I've instituted a k9 program which councilman paparo has been uh very instrumental in advising us on how to get this up and running we haven't had a k9 in Hamilton Township Police in 20 25 years something along those lines so we lost whatever institutional knowledge we had and the we're we're we're very hopeful that this is going to assist my anti- crime unit in our in our drug enforcement efforts and generally speaking the narcotics detection ST which is the the skill that this dog is going to have um it pay more than pays for itself through through uh Financial seizures and so on so I don't think it's going to cause any budgetary issues uh my officer is currently in the State Police K9 Academy and is scheduled to graduate in June so I've got my fingers crossed if the program is successful I hope to expand it going forward in uh future budget years and and we'll we'll we'll see how it goes uh there's a lot of other things I've done done with the police department I I've I've tried to uh identify areas in which we could be more efficient in terms of personnel um I've had some conversations with with Kathy and with the mayor as well in in uh reorganizing some of the some of the tasks within the police department hiring back some retired police officers to do things that our current police officers are doing at you know senior officer rates and hiring them back at a at a much lower rate to to perform some of the same functions which allows us to put more officers on the street at a you know relatively minimal cost to the to taxpayers I've also something I'm really proud of of course is is the uh negotiations with the school board and myself and and and the mayor as well to uh provide compensation to the township to uh in exchange for the the uh continued presence of the officers in the middle schools they've been there for four or five years anyway but upgrading them to school resource officers uh tightening up their uh their tasks at the schools uh training them at a higher level and so on and and Dr Roco was fantastic and and the school board Administration was was fantastic as well so we came to a conclusion that they they did compensat for those three officers said it's allowed me to put three additional officers on the street by the end of this year I hope and that's the 250,000 correct uh okay with with with an with an escalation there that's so that that certainly covers theost the entry level officers and uh the the costs escalate you know Over a four-year time frame and I guess we'll have to renegotiate later later on once we get the conclusion of that agreement um we've we we are going through quite a significant wave of retirements right now they tend to be uh cyclical and right now we've had uh nine nine officers reti Tire in the last three months and uh the good news is it's it's always it's always good to have uh movement in the police department Fresh Faces fresh ideas you know hiring some new officers and and and from a budgetary standpoint it's going to save hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary costs of course as well the downside is we're losing hundreds of years worth of experience in policing as well so it's a balancing act that we're we're we're currently undergoing and it's probably going to take us through through the end of the year before I can uh really reap the benefits of of those additional three officers and and hiring hiring replacement officers and really into yeah probably January uh I I hope to have most of these retirements replaced so that's that's the struggle I'm uh I'm going through right now and uh plus I have I have officers that are that are out because of the the shooting incident as well so my manow is a little bit stretched right now but we're still able to uh to provide the services that uh that we need to um and also touching on something else that Jud s dat brought up in terms of the revenue numbers uh I I I've tried to refocus Patrol a little bit as well as as and traffic and in terms of uh proactive style policing uh issuing more Summits is you know going out making more car stops and so on and we've seen an increase of probably 20 25% in terms of number of summits is issued which there there they haven't seen the revenue benefits of that yet uh because it still has most of the summs haven't worked away through but we issued about 7,000 tickets last year which is up from uh 5,000 in change uh in 2022 and and we were down to 3,000 a year over the uh over the pandemic so it's very very significant increase in the number of sementes that we're issuing uh going going forward um there I I have some other programs that we're trying to to Institute as well we've we've been in negotiations with Volunteers of America which again related to what JN sheno was saying with operation help and hope uh volunteers America is uh a social social services organization on steroids that includes assistance for homeless assistance for uh for persons who are suffering from addiction assistance for seniors with paying pscg bills or rent or things like that it's really uh Lawrence Township has had them in place for about seven years now and they can't speak more highly it's it's a great partnership uh with Volunteers of America that they have and I'm hoping to have that in place you know sometime this year as well so that's one of my uh initiatives that hasn't quite come to fruition yet but we're still working on that um apart from that it's Steady As She Goes uh we are um hopefully uh where we're able to continue to reduce our crime rates and and then there's lots of things that uh are kind of out of my out of our control um you know the fentanyl uh you know fentanyl issue still exists which is one of the reason why I uh have my my crime unit addressing addressing that in a much more forceable fashion uh shoplifting is through the roof but that's kind of a Countrywide issue car theft is through the roof that's State Statewide issue there's only so much that we can we can do to address that uh we have had a number of significant arrests over my time as Chief including uh high-profile catalytic converter thieves that we we arrested not too long ago um and so SE where she goes thank you chief for um for all you do and uh I know uh I was very impressed by your uh first speech when you were sworn in and uh you know just listen you uh one of the toughest jobs is management of people and getting the right people in in in the correct places um managing personalities and things like that and I think that your opening um speech to the group of officers that was there that that day uh impressed me and I think that and I think that uh uh came from the heart so I I I I I really do appreciate that um any of my do do we want to just jump into the worksheets or any questions regarding Revenue uh on the revenue side I don't think there's anything that we really need to touch on I just uh was Wonder how's the um officer do uh he's expected to make uh a full recovery or at least close to a full recovery uh he had a second surgery this week uh that should be the final surgery actually that's more than second surgery that's probably his fourth uh but that should be the final surgery on it on on his arm um he took a very very significant injury to his to his left arm but uh thank thankfully uh Capital Health is a phenomenal Trauma Center they did some great work with him and on him and um he should be should be have the ability to return to work and should have the ability to return to work at at close to at 100% so the only question is the time frame but whatever time he needs we will we will give him uh officer F Bon is a is a hero that was uh an incredible incident that he was involved in and and it's really an officer's worst nightmare and the way that both he and his partner reacted was very very commendable yeah most definitely was uh in addition of many lower profile events that uh the public doesn't hear about in which our officers act to heroically and and with a high level of professionalism so thank you I'm apprecia and glad thank you sir glad for the good news okay so I noticed one one line and we received a little bit more in a Federal grant for bull proof fests so uh under revenues those best they have a a life so many years so they shift them in right every so many years that's why we get what we good what we get five a fiveyear life cycle five year what happens to the old what happens to the old vests uh they are they're ultimately destroyed uh there that's a that's actually a very good question I know I know we contracted out to um a private company I believe to to get them destroyed but how how it's done I don't okay that's good enough yeah that's just don't want them to wind up in the wrong hands basically you know very we're that that's concern of ours as well and yeah okay you want to just go through the worksheets real fast y um for first up is uh police dispatch is that is that's what you have I don't have any questions regarding this any of my colleagues no next up we no um next up we have uh Public Safety I just had a question I'm so sorry do I have the Y the phone J started I know um on page two um 017 the standby cost just standby pay can I just give an explanation on the 15,000 uh that standby is for uh civilians if they get put in a standby mode but it doesn't really happen that often so that's amount that stayed consistent in case it was needed um but if you can see from last year it was barely used okay yeah last year looks like zero or 266 that's those $266 actually well there wasn't any allocation until last year was that in a different before it have been just kind of stuck in with the salary wage but I don't know John that might be yeah I think last year it was uh it wasn't this was the first year that we started that I'm a big fan of standby pay across not I a big fan of it yeah why do the standby pay so low just civilians civilians civilians that's why I was asking because the courts was more than more than yours and I'm like wait do matter builds in some flexibility for emeres and for civilians I thought it was for the police was only civilian I can think of who's on call is our tech services and they uh are one are one U computer operator in tech services we have we have one one Sergeant one uh computer operator and he is on call but um they they historically have taken time time and of standby pay okay yeah I mean it was I noticed uh under the one on page five which was for the increases which I appreciate the detail part of the budget I mean you guys really do a good job talking about the decreases and the increases so there's really you know very little question that I have in the notes section but and I I love that aspect of this program this Edmond yes yeah this is pretty this is you know very nice um you know the big increase is the Microsoft Office software um the 21,000 under that category which out out of our control yeah out of our control yeah yep Microsoft stock right I know tell me I didn't have any other questions on Public Safety but my colleagues anyone oh listen this is oh wait I know I know what I wanted I'm sorry I'm sorry councilman wait until you start talking I did notice something here um under other equipment and supplies no page 13 so there was originally a mention of a Youth Academy and with the Hamilton pal an association that was going to be similar to The Safety Town type aspect and there was a dedication of funds towards it but I saw it was Zero doubt yeah the uh the youth Police Academy that's another initiative that I that I began last year our inaugural Academy is going to be in August of this year and it's U essentially an introduction for the use of Hamilton into policing it's it's it's a miniature it's not really a miniature police academy there are elements that are that are similar to it where there's some physical fitness involved and uh marching we introdu marching and and thrill ceremony and things like that but we're also showing them a lot of what the what the police department does uh we have a drone demonstration we have a a crime scene demonstration we uh demonstrate car stops for them uh all these all these fun things that that kids in that age age range which is sixth to eth grade you know will will really appreciate and get something out of and hopefully you somewhere down the road maybe they'll even look into a career in in police ing which you know we've certainly suffered a recruitment issues as have most most most police departments across the country so it's more of a longer term you know potential there but also there's the community community relations community policing aspect of it too it does you know generate a lot of positive interaction between these kids and our and our officers and as well as with their parents so it's it's a joint operation between the Hamilton pal and us I'm supplying on Duty Officers to to staff this to to you know do the the various demonstrations and functions uh and Hamilton pal is um handling the uh the the fees as they're 501c3 obviously so they they accept the money the fees and uh pay for the expenses associated with it which anything from t-shirts and shorts to bus transportation to uh paying for uh we have certified fitness instructors that are coming in to teach the kids physical fitness over the course of the week things like that so there are there are expenses that are associated with it um that the uh entry fees may or may not cover so we had requested in our in our budget to have $10,000 there just in case there was I'm sorry $5,000 in place just in case there were cost overruns on the youth police academy and the Hamilton pal wasn't able to cover their their end of it so uh we we we expect that the entry fees will likely cover uh the costs again because we're working mostly with with on Duty Officers we're not you know not paying overtime or anything like that we're not buying any new equipment so it it was it was simply a placeholder just in case there were cost runs from the youth Police Academy so right now there's zero there do we yeah and I I think there's a note in there that talks about was there another source of funds that we were going to look for for that the Mita funds the municipal law enforcement just in case you did go go over those fees they're there the Mita funds are are available so I don't think it was an attempt to not do the prog okay I thought okay I wasting all CU I think it sounds like a great program great initiatives all right we don't I'm trying my best to to avoid using F break until emergency funding for us okay can be used for a variety of things from from equipment to training to things like this for the Youth Police Academy um so I I you know the mayor mayor chose to take it out and I I I don't have a huge objection to it because we don't really anticipate uh using that $5,000 that was just in case they they ran over okay cost okay that's great great to hear any other questions regarding no I mean if there became a need for that money I'm sure we something I appreciate that anyone else with public we still uh just along the line of the uh camp and the uh kids program we still doing the officer friendly program that as a matter of fact well as part of the negotiations with the school board uh prior prior to the conclusion of these negotiations for the additional three officers um the three Middle School officers that were assigned to to Crockett Reynolds and Grace were actually doing the officer friendly program which took them out of the middle schools put them in because there there's a kindergarten a second and fourth grade component of that um and they would still teach those at all of the elementary schools at least up to the pandemic uh they were still teaching it uh at at the elementary schools but that Drew them out at the middle schools which you know caused some security concerns you know by for the school board and and the principles so as as part of that uh negotiation um we I I assigned another officer the duties of Officer friendly that's his only well not not he's going to be in commune placing it's not his only duty but he's going to be responsible for teaching the officer friendly program the K2 and four components of the officer friendly program uh so that that program is is is still alive it's in the process of being re revised and um actually reinstituted because during the pandemic obviously we weren't visiting the uh the elementary school so kind of fell by the wayside so I'm in the process of of Reviving the officer friendly program and uh it was as as part of these negotiations with the school board that's good that's great you know uh that's I mean you talk about contact with the that's a positive oh absolutely uh you know for the for the kids to uh have that interaction so I just had a quick question on page 17 under less lethal Munitions it was the same thing it was budgeted 5,000 but or it was requested than budget zero any concerns or uh the the less lethal program was instituted by Chief Stevens this is something that uh was one of his initiatives that that I I I agree with it it's less lethal Munitions just just to clarify what they are are bean bag grounds uh that are fired from either shotguns or from from larger larger launchers that could be used for either large scale disturbances or for instances in which we have a in an individual who may be you we have to use force on for for whatever reason but we don't want to we don't want to graduate all the way up to deadly course so it's one more tool in toolbox for my officers to use uh apart from using the Baton or or using OC spray uh this is one more tool that they can use Chief Stevens's original concept was to be able to Prov distribute or less less than lethal um weapons uh throughout throughout Patrol so that it was available for a quick response and that um it it would be readily readily available unfortunately they they while there was approval I I I'm sorry I don't know what budget year it was probably 2019 2020 or so to purchase the hardware for it the Munitions have been consistently cut out of cut out of the budget um since then so we have not been able to Institute the less ofal weapons or introduce it in any way shape or form um they're they're quite expensive uh they the training requirements are also expensive each officer has to fire X number of rounds per year uh so the the ammunition costs are are are are not insignificant so what I what I've decided to do is rather than Institute it um for through our Patrol I'm simply going to limit it to our our SWAT team have them train they're already trained to deal with large scale disturbances uh they already have other um methods to deal with uh again large scale disturbances they have the industrial sized OC spray that's not commonly issued to patrol officers so issuing them the uh less than lethal weapons as well as the well as the ammunition at least it'll be available in in the case of of of a serious incident so we're not going to be able to Institute a department wide which is Chief Stevens's uh concept for less than lethal but at least it'll it'll still be available on a much smaller scale thank you question okay next up that's um we're up to police vehicles this is a small um only two or three worksheets here um so this was is this a maintenance of Motor Vehicles was this in another category before because the 50,000 wasn't there before previous typically I think uh last year was like 25 or 24,000 you got a note here say previously unused I I can answer that okay quick um so damage to police vehicles uh in the sorry can you just identify yourself oh um Lieutenant Steve gold hi uh so in the past damage to police vehicles that are involved in crashes the budget uh to pay for it came out of the garage's budget and the township administration had directed for this year uh the budgets to come out of the individual Department budgets so this is a category that we did not use before because we didn't have to U so this was the amount that we came up with be good crashes thank you L I appreciate that and the I guess the police vehicles unmarked vehicles that looked like it was requested but then it wasn't um that didn't look like you know we're not funding that this year is yeah um there's a couple of issues with with the unmarked Vehicles okay um I was when when we submitted the budget item I wanted to order um sedans instead of SUV we've historically gotten SUVs for vehicles and used Capital which the the SUVs are $520,000 more than the sedans that we were looking at we were looking at various various Chevys and and Dodges Etc uh they come in at about $40,000 and the SUVs come in at about $60,000 and that's prior to them being being properly equipped now uh the advice of Mr Calderone unfortunately we can't order non SUVs through uh Capital anymore so we had to introduce uh a line item for sedans into operating which is where that came from uh and to me it's more beneficial to have to for my un for persons who use the unmarked Vehicles which is administration myself my captains detectives who were on call detective supervisors you know there's no reason for us to have an issue V that gets 15 mil to the gallon when we can have a sedan that gets you know 25 or 30 and is5 $20,000 cheaper so that was my idea uh you know the mayor obviously you know did cut that out of the operating because that was a significant in it showed a significant increase in the operating but again it wasn't included in capital you know to as as a counter there so um we can get away with another year now let now the the the the vehicle uh conversation here is a little bit more it's it's intered between the operating and the capital now last year we were approved for uh five SUVs and one unmarked vehicle um are because the cut was from 10 to 5 this is the 2023 budget year um I chose to not utilize the unmarked vehicle and use the money for that unmarked vehicle to buy an additional marked vehicle so we actually ordered six and purchased six marked Vehicles which should be in sometime this fall um this year we had requested an additional 10 marked Vehicles which which the mayor had had cut down to five and um I have to say that you know two consecutive years where we're ordering five or six um marked Patrol Vehicles is is going to cause us a hardship down the road uh the um our each Patrol veh obviously our vehicles are on the road 24/7 sign again we have 37 marked Vehicles included in now as two motorcycles um some of those are in traffic and the anti- crime unit so they're not utilized quite quite so heavily but 22 of them are in Patrol and are used 247 and we only get about two years usage out of those Vehicles so that's where the 10 comes from 10 is basically 50% of our Patrol Fleet and they average about 46,000 Mi a year after 2 years they're pushing 100,000 Mi we have to retire them at that point and then move them into other capacities if they're in decent shape we might repurpose them for the anti-me unit we utilize them as as uh side job cars that we use for for off-duty traffic assignments things like that the ones that are that are in in the worst shape will either wholesale or junk out you know depending on their condition um for one year last year obviously we only purchased six Patrol Vehicles so we're already underwater for a for a 10 perear replacement rate uh only being authorized to purchase five Patrol Vehicles is going to cause this hardship down the road now this this past fall we did have 10 new patrol cars come in come in but they were ordered from the 2022 budget year the 2023 budget year we only have six so we're only going to have six coming in this fall the following year we're only going to have five coming in you can see the cascading effect that that's going to cause for us by by fall of 2025 our Patrol Fleet is going to be in bad shape and I I you know with all due respect to the mayor and his decision have to I have to disagree strongly with us only being authorized to uh purchase five uh five vehicles and also not being able to purchase any unmar Vehicles so I I you know request in the strongest terms if we can increase those numbers it would be very helpful uh why aren't we allowed John and this is more of a question for you why why I appreciate those comments why aren't we allowed to um utilize Capital though for S the sedan I mean not that I'm looking to mortgage our future here but I mean not that huge number but I'm just saying like a capital purchase why can't project dictates the idea is that the the useful life of it is not at least 5 years which is what you're supposed to do for Capital so the B and because petol it was really meant years ago for the patrol cars because they have a useful life of maybe depends on how much they're used but only a few years and so but as we got away from using sedans right as patrol cars and towns started switching to SUVs which is allowed under that why because they think they're life spans longer it's it's backwards the lifespan of the patrol Vehicles is under 5 years and the sedans are going to last more than 5 years correct I'm just telling you that when the when the the law went into effect or whatever or when the ruling went into effect it was we were using mostly sedans for uh for patrol cars patrol cars and so that's what it was really meant for is it archaic probably but you know because we're purchasing SUVs under that that says they don't really have a useful life of 5 years either so we shouldn't be purchasing them under Capital but we do because a lot of times capital is what's available without having to to end up you know raising your your operating budget so years ago all the police department they have they they they replace the cars and all the cars were part of the operating budget because they were sedan then when the SUV started becoming popular for whatever reason they changed the bonding laws and they decided to in to include the SUV as part of the bond ordinance but not this events how far out are we allowed to go on the SUVs with the bonds like how many years are we able to I think the use for life is five years so we can go five well sorry if I can interject Mr Ty yeah um if if you follow the life cycle of of a particular vehicle that's purchased for patrol those that 2-year life cycle is only in Patrol when that when that vehicle is uh deemed no longer suitable for patrol we will try and generally do find other usage for it we'll we'll we'll take all the striping off and and the the lights off and we might we might reassign it to our training unit or to our id id unit or we might use it uh in place you know assign it to our detective bu or alternatively use it as a side job car and I I would suspect that we generally do get five years out out of our SUVs or close to it uh for a majority of them anyway so in terms of us that fitting into the requirements for for Capital I think I think there the argument is still there it's just they're uh suitability for for patrol usage is only about two years well yeah it's extraordinary to think about a car running 247 you know that's that's plus alternator alternator get beat up by the siren box and the the computer and the MVR and they want to keep loading up cameras and bells and whistles and it's the alternators aren't made for it so I I have a question um I I just wanted to make a comment I think um the reason why we've been so um focused on on the capital is because this year is a Cru crucial year for our capital and we've asked all directors to keep their Capital requests at a minimum right and only what you really need because we have the new Municipal Building um that ordinance coming later this year soon anyway so since we adopted it yeah sorry didn't mean to uh since we've kind of jumped into Capital um I noticed there's a uh product status critical um upgrade for the 911 system before can we stay on vehicles for a minute before we get there I'm sorry I just want to Yeah by all means so we have to we have to remember something right as a department um as a town the police division brings money into us right they bring money into the budget they bring money into the budget with our side jobs right all these Road jobs every time you see a cop sitting on the side of the road the town is charging an administrative fee and a vehicle fee so those vehicles are making us money right we're spending money on them but they're making money for us we have a police trust fund correct that that money goes into yes it goes into so why can't if if we're worried about where where we're paying the bills out of why can't the money be earmarked in that account to pay for vehicles so it can you can use it for vehicles there's no question but we're not and that's why I'm asking why can't we so um we don't we haven't in in recent memory that I know of used it oh I shouldn't say that I think when I was first here there was a year that we did use a portion of it for the vehicles to replace that uh prior to all to supplement our budget as well to cover some of the police expenses that are in our Budget prior to all of us getting here uh up here anyway uh the last mayor took a million dollars out of there to decrease taxes to you know play games before the election however with that money uh being in that account they're making the money for us with the vehicles why would we not just earmark that for vehicles we're saying we can't spend it out of here we shouldn't spend it out of here they're making the money the vehicle is literally sitting on the road making money why are we not earmarking that money and saying hey yeah I don't think it would equal $881,000 right but it could C it could put a D in it it could put a de in it so we don't get that much for the the vehicle how much is in that account if we get an administrative fee and a vehicle fee right $15 and $10 an hour I think it's 122 $12 an hour for a vehicle or an administrative I think that's the combination of both of them I I I'm just off the top of my head I I think it's the combination of the vehicle fee as well as the administrative fee is $12 an hour might might put it might put it then in a little you know even if it's a little even if it's you know something we're make we're making money we have a lot of vehicles out on the road those fees add up it's over a million dollars a year off top off top of my head what restrictions are there on what what restrictions are there on what we 4,000 a 400,000 yeah oh okay I I I see what you're saying the I was thinking overall of what our um extra Duty employment brings in sorry Eugenia i i i i I'd have to do some research to come up I come up that exact number you're absolutely right though um do anything councilman you can earmark those funds to to C vles even if it's you said it's you said it might not be 400,000 maybe it's 250,000 right that's three vehicles I so it just it just puts a it puts a little bit of dent in it to help pay when we're we're we're they're asking for 10 Vehicles every year we all expect when we pick up the phone call 911 right the cops going to come what happens when the car breaks down who who's coming they're not coming on horse they're not coming on bikes and also we expect them to come that's extremely important then also I just don't want to play catchup next year's budget and then I got to deal so they have to buy 15 this happened before I remember in one of those years I was like 18 or something like crazy it was it was crazy I have to deal with that again so and just just to make the point again if we had not had our Capital cut last year you know we we would probably be able to manage with one year cut down to five patrol cars but having two consecutive years you know being cut down you know down to five it's it's unworkable for us we we are not going to be able we're our maintenance costs are going to be ridiculous uh I may be faced with a situation where I'm putting officers at and unsafe cars and that's my biggest concern what's the thought process with the trust fund of maintaining a balance in that account like is there some philosophical reason or practical reason that we're maintaining a balance there not spending that money it's not that we're maintaining a balance we aren't we actually use the funds and if you notice in the revenue section of our budget we have an amount that comes in uh that we use we we take in basically the administrative fee to as a as a Revenue to cover expenses in our operating budget so um but we could just as easily earm market for you know a different expense another expense related to that so the bottom line is that goes into the general budget that it has been you know so our over it's included in our overall Revenue number and so we've never held the balance because uh councilman Pera was exactly right when I got here right the year before that over a million dollar worth 1.37 yes had been used and they they basically had never used the fund before that so they never re I shouldn't say never they hadn't used it in several years uh before that and then used that great big amount in the budget so that one not only left a hold for all of you to find that Revenue but uh and that's a different issue uh but it also it didn't leave us with the balance and we don't necessarily want a balance so we're not trying to keep a balance in there all right so the purpose and correct me if I'm wrong please um but the purpose of the fund when they start the fund is when you start working your side job the vendors need an account to put the money into right so they have to be able to deposit the money into an account the county had to do same thing start an account and then you know you put it back into the fund balances you know whatever it is but that's how the trust fund actually had to start that was a little bit misled by the word trust fund like it makes it sound like it should be earmarked for law enforcement typical fair enough basically every single payroll we get from the third party that is handling the police jobs we get a report for that payable and it's so much for to pay the officers for the payroll to go the payroll for the officers that are being paid in that payroll and then also a portion of that is for the administrative fee so they go into the that police ESC into two different areas got it so can we have two different things is it possible to get a vehicle list you said you have 30 something Vehicles can we have a vehicle list with the OD dominer readings and can we also get a uh some some form of list of how much money uh was made through the side jobs both the vehicle fee and the um administrative fee I just looked up our angle before and for 2023 uh we reported total generated income was $2.5 Million total fees generated was 4 400,000 so On Target what year this is oh he's agreeing with you he's agreeing with you no I don't I don't believe it was that much you said 400 he said 400 it's but we can work that out we the vehicle and the administrative fee the whole administrative fee comes together it doesn't come this was the this was all of the administrative fees together generated by by the S by by extra Duty employment but that includes uh working at schools working you know special events you know those those kinds of things it's not not just our our traffic assignments you have a big funeral you need somebody out there traffic we don't charge the Schools administrative fee we don't charge a lot of f the board of fed and some profit yeah so all of those but but we have we have non-traffic assignments that we do work security assignments that we do work that that do generate an administrative Fe I think that includes that yeah okay but I I guess this category this trust these trust monies are not designated for another cause or another initiative or program correct annually so it's our fund balance General try to help to pay the rest of BS goes goes to the entire budget yeah if we I think I think out on way to get I remember this being brought up yeah okay it's concerned you know if uh if you were going to get the list of mileage you're making model would be great too that way we just have an idea of what we're looking at we will get get get that to you early next week thank you that that's marked and unmarked as well I just really care about the patrol Vehicles because they're the ones that are running 24/7 yeah yeah if you want the other on you just started it started with the unmarked actually might might only be Vehicles now cuz we did have one that was involved in an accident recently but it's either 36 or 37 whatever the number is yeah Chief an ideal Ideal World you would have every year seven to eight Vehicles 10 in an ideal yeah 10 yeah okay that's oh no I thought you put 10 because last year some were taken out he wants to replace half the patrol Fleet every year if I understood you correctly almost half of the patrol flate yes right when we say Mark Vehicles we're talking they they include vehicles that are assigned to other units like our Traffic Unit our supervisors and the anti-me unit as well although they're not marked they're included in that in in that in that number um but the the most critical vehicles that we have are the ones that are used in the Patrol Division in 247 365 okay okay all right so we yeah I I'll have my fleet manager uh check you know go go check years mileage Etc and we'll get we'll get that to you next week okay get you an updated list he does keep a list regularly but I don't know when it was last updated so I'm make sure we get it done get it to you okay do we want to continue with capital yeah uh next CH 911 uh I just I don't know if um the request was for 140 it was uh recommended is 20 and I just want to understand is are we all right with the uh 911 we we received $124,000 Grant oh good that covers to do that project so the the the additional $20,000 was to cover all right that answers that and then uh otherwise we just talked about the SUVs and uh need a couple of motorcycles I see M I have any other really have any other you anything else anything I want find the money for a couple more vide that's all that's we're have to do that over the next several days yeah so might not be able to you know get you what you desire desire but we can you know any any assistance is appreciated we're going to look at it Chief there's 60 $62,000 in Firearms range improvements is that just for lights uh yeah I'm sorry lights and I'm sorry oh yeah that's right uh we still have one one garage door that still needs to be replaced and then the rest of it is is the lights at at our at our new Range I have a question behind that does every Department have their own firing range do we get any revenue from do other police departments use other police departments have historically been authorized to use our range we usually just have a uh hold harmless agreement with with the other PDS I got you uh it hasn't happened under my watch but historically under Chief stevens or or chief Collins you know he would allow other other smaller police departments that don't have ranges uh for instance West Windsor has used it um Robinsville has used it but we generally don't charge them okay would you be willing to trade that 62,000 for another car do you need to make those improvements this year if no it's not critical the the our our training unit has I'm trying the uh the ligh the lighting at the range uh there there already are lights at the range so that we can conduct night firing obviously it's just inadequate uh for safety purposes but if if I had to um say which is more critical a vehicle or the additional lighting at the range I would I would go with vehicle at this point it's one vehicle right there yeah yeah trying to get trying to get we're trying to get you I know this stuff but if we may could push that that lighting off till nextt year problem and then trying to get that's all not a big number but you have that standby pay in that one category it's only 15,000 but I mean I'm just get you a quarter of a vehicle I'm just saying like you tired you know they they need the budget for that in case of some kind of Emergency the well the the civilian who who would be eligible for standby pay against my civilian uh computer operator he he has been taking in in the past we have had civilians down there that did choose contractually they could take either the standby pay or comp time so we have had civilians in the past take the uh standby pay so you rather you goad you can't control yeah correct I I I can't control If he if he decides in the second half of the year to say Hey you know for for my own call weeks or my standby weeks I want to take pay pay where you taking if if it's Che it out then where would I where I take that money from okay gotta it's not a lot of money anyway Chief there's a uh there's a safer grant for the fire department right to add more firefighters there's uh opportunities available do the police uh is there anything in the police world uh there's a Jag grant that does fund additional police officers but it's not 100% Grant and it's only if I remember correctly funding for 5 years I did have a discussion with mayor Martin about that last year it comes up every summer ja Grant comes up every summer uh he wasn't interested in it last year uh considering his uh warnings that this this was going to be a tough budget year I would expect that it would probably not be you know utilized this year either but it is available out there from the Department of Justice yes okay cuz I know the fire Grant the safer grant for the firefighters is do April 12th um I just I've been doing a little research I didn't really see anything for police when I was yes Jag thank you yeah [Music] okay any other questions no I you know I I think we did some good work here you know identifying uh the possibility that we can maybe move some some assets around to uh make sure we address the most critical needs for you tonight so I appreciate uh your appreciate your your presentation and I don't have any more questions I do have one more item uh that was that was reduced by the mayor again not not meeing any comment towards mayor at all but uh our training uh seminars budget uh was in 2023 it was 20,000 correct it was it was $20,000 last year and we actually went over it I believe we spent 22,000 on it last year can can you give me the worksheet uh oh I'm sorry that be page nine various training seminars under 040 yeah please personel expenses and training yes and oh and then various training seminars correct uh one of one of my uh initiatives as well has been to try and increase the amount of training that my officers receive uh it's it simply creates a more professional Police Department reduces liability there's me there's all positives and no negatives uh that's why we requested an increase from 20,000 to 30,000 I think the mayor saw a 50% increase and that's what you know kind of caught his eye um I did not expect him to reduce it from 20,00 ,000 to 15,000 when we spent 22,000 last year so uh I I would love to be able to request from from the council to uh reinstitute the $30,000 request but I certainly understand the budgetary uh climate right now and if at the very least we can get us back up to 20,000 uh I can work with that we'll take a look yeah I think so I also see the SWAT training is zeroed out yeah that was requested by the SWAT team that would that had never been introduced before as I'm sure you're aware uh SWAT training is very expensive uh we we've had a SWAT team now for for 50 years and we we pride ourselves on being some of the most highly trained uh in in in the state of New Jersey and my Swan team Commander had requested the additional training money so that we could you know receive uh continued high-end training we're also in a in a turnover cycle on the SWAT team as well I have probably four officers leaving the SWAT team which means introducing four new officers and which increases the uh the training expense for them as well and uh rather than take it out of the regular training budget from various training seminars we had introduced the uh the SWAT team training as as a separate line item so you know the the New Mexico training is paid for all it's all free y we just went as matter of okay so good I was just making eight officers just went yes that's that's covered by federal cover by the FBI cover everything they cover the the hotel they cover everything so I I just want to make sure you're aw I saw it so with the SWAT training normally SWAT training comes out of the general training budget uh you were hoping to have a separate line item to free up correct more for training for the general correct uh okay and both is it kind of an All or Nothing thing with that 25,000 or could you make do with part of that number oh with we can make it with part of that number yeah what's that I'm just wondering I mean we went from 25 to zero on the SWAT training if we were able to perhaps partially restore find 5,000 like we were talking about taking five from the standby money maybe we put the five in the SWAT training perhaps be helpful to you know just get get you something in that in that line or just figure out some way to move some money around right train important yeah I think I mean listen we're it'll be extraordin I I hate to pick on the civilian but we're in April now and he hasn't you know probably used it so I mean I feel like you know we can move money into more of a priority of the training right now I think might be beneficial usage was2 and some odd dollars last year and we're we're budgeting 15,000 I think the big jump is the training in 2023 was you know budgeted 48 spent 44 and it went up to 99 requested I think that's the um mhm that's the difference what pages page yeah that's right up looking at and go ahead before that before Co it was only less than 20,000 before Co I know but when you start looking at some of the stuff like some of it we have to train 18 new police officers because of all our retirements the P the PTC license alone that we're paying for the license for new officers yeah you know is another is 500 I mean you know per officer yeah and look training is very important and especially when you talked about in in the beginning of all the retirements and all of that institutional knowledge going out so you want to make sure that you're training the newer younger whatever that are coming through so um you could you could take some of that other um the standby if you want it move it to this line item and that way you have that in that budget you can use it however you want to divy it up I think for for the training that I'm good for the VAR take five from standby move up to various training seminars up to 20,000 we've never take at least five from that uh we've never spent more than a few hundred on the standby no so but we're fortunate he's taking but but some he's going to change yeah he's going to change well we we have I mean I don't know how many years back but we have had uh again they white cers so contractually they can take money for their standby and we have had civilians who were in our Tech Services Unit who have taken money in the past it's just not in the recent P not the pay yeah I'm only looking at back to 19 yeah yes and I think you're right because it does it does you're definitely right Chief um because it shows no it doesn't we don't have that it as of 2019 it was zero right it was Zero yeah so I don't have that last year was the first year that somebody actually took cash took cash okay so not that we can no I'm not looking to zero it out I'm I'm not looking to do that I'm happy to get the training budget bumed up okay let's bump that up yeah I know and chief today's in the end of the discussion if you have any other thoughts or suggestions about how we can kind of you know move things around in order to more effectively fund the department uh I think we're all years you know so I appreciate that Mr I'm trying to be so down the middle on this so we're paying for 18 license fees to the PTC for people that aren't even employed by the town yet we're paying for 18 licensing fees right and we're budgeting for it we're budgeting we're budgeting for it because at some point we would be paying those license the well the 18 you're coming up with that's you're talking about there's 18 new hires so there's 18 licenses put in uh at some point we would be paying those those license fees if if we hired an officer early in the year like uh for example if we hired a certified police officer January which did we hire yeah we did we hired two certified officers this January if their licenses will comeing up this year we'd have to we'd have to pay for it um I'm just looking at there's eight 18 officers that we're putting through the police academy they come on to the job do we want to pay that $9,000 or put that in the training most well you you know as well as I do that we're if we if we hire 18 officers it's not sending 18 officers through the police academy we would be hiring a certain percentage of them would be already certified police officers uh for example we hired uh seven officers in January five of which or four of which four of which went to the police academy so we hired three certified officers in January in this next coming hiring cycle there's at least three Trenton officers that are on our list there's going to be two Trent officers and one who's um he's a sleo too special law enforcement office officer to um that we would not have to send through the police academy as well so out of the uh expected hiring of right now we're hiring six and we have a few more officers retiring in July June and July um so we'll be looking at eight or nine you know for the next hiring cycle and uh at least hopefully two or three of them will be will be PTC certified so if they're already PTC certified in another department do we pay for the license when they get here those LIC no it's only when when their number comes up with the PTC uh the way it's it's supposed to work now with one third of the police department gets their license renewed every year and for us that would be 50 50 I'm sorry there's no fee for that any current officer there's no fee only only in but there's a $500 fee for each current officer no I thought there was my apologies so my question just is we have $99,000 in licensing fees for 18 officers right can we take some of that and put that into the training can we just leave it there and then you guys shift it as need be well are we allow to do that yeah you know we could we could find find the money toay yeah so because I see there's a lot more right you created new columns but there's still some money there like that licensing Fe I don't think we're going to need 18 brand new licenses we can shift that into the training if you need it um when we projected the 18 officers it was a worst case scenario that we could be hiring as many as 18 officers um we hopefully will not get there uh we're going to be at probably 15 or 16 uh depending on how retirements go but that 18 officers that we're budging for includes full for vest includes uh equipment includes firearms and so on but it it also included the uh P Toc licensing fees as well so but you're correct that that we probably will not will not be so we we can you can use that plus the money they added that'll helps you out a little bit helps sure okay okay anyone else Chief thank you lieutenant I appreciate your time and uh um you know it's a tough year overall uh we're we're trying to balance some things uh and I know um you know you can't get what exactly what you wanted to you know put put into the budget uh but you know I think we can get you there and and and work with you especially on that you know the vehicles and try to get you a little closer to your number um so we'll talk amongst ourselves and and let you know and get back to and if you can pass along that information that would be great and thank you for your for all that you do and and the and the great police force that you lead so thank you so much thank you very much thanks good gentlemen congratulations stand congratulations yeah huh yeah I'm objecting glass budg being for me I'm objecting to I don't want to see him go I know someone else who's counting down I you I don't know if you have it handy or memorized started J he's 40 I'm 40 Janice do you have her address memor can you text it back at me that's good no I'm going to drop off you do 10 years but if you do 20 you you want a pair well yeah I'm not going to use all these I gave Alison a pair we're still on recording right yes sorry we're recording thank there I mean you're still on the camera okay you do that whatever yeah that's fine yes that yeah can I ask you a question I ask yeah so while we're in between um where would we find in the budget because I know it's a big number and it's going to get all of our attentions where would the health benefits payments what breakdown is that and the pens pension and health benefits because I know they're big numbers Y where where it's under Appropriations oh okay five it's section I know I know we were we were Whispering over here about it going back and forth trying to figure out where it was yeah now the health benefits also some of that that's not the the amount that we pled in the current budget is not B through the overall the whole amount that we pay because some of it is appropriate to theour for those employees that we pay okay and separate budget oh separate budget and some you know all UC UCC right one line right right so so you'll notice that the no the health insurance the garbage and recycling and the um you obviously diminished last two years we've had the benefit of 5 million from the federal dollars the arpa dollars are gone so I mean that one's that those that 10 million total over the last two years is gone obviously we can't utilize that funding for that 5 million for this year so that's garbage recycling Health garbage recycling health and the garbage and recycling um that alone is almost 23 am I right to say 10 million yes yes that's on page four cuz it's garbage and recycling is there there was an uptick of if you look at page four on um uh insurance I'm sorry yeah I'm sorry yeah uh but there's yeah but on page four you have the pfrs number PFS 2 and a half% yeah the pur yeah yeah that's I'm sorry what's that PFS is police fire what's the dcrp DCP is a defined contribution but those people they came up since 2010 those people that do not qualified for PRS they have to be under defined contribution normally the business administrator if they are not grandfather then they would be a PF pcrp okay or the director of believe the director of community develop yeah yes so you want to state your name can you just put the mic like like close we jump in no we have legiate question okay thank you so in going through the going through this uh today um I noticed that there was obviously there's additional for solid waste right there's um on page five you'll notice um in the um Solid Waste category o and E we have there's 2.2 almost 2.3 million that uh wasn't allocate no number in 2023 because that's out of cap right yes that's correct that's out of cap so that's plus the increase that was on the p number five thank you plus the increase that was on page four yeah so that you have to add those two together so that's yeah it's significant so the budget uh on page five right on uh where the library the $400,000 increase is actually the grant right no didn't we get liary so that is one3 Mill one thir of the mill they were giving a huge increase this year on the on the library tax by onethird of the mill so this is actually an increase in the budget cuz I know when add the budget when it when you don't you add the grant into the budget also it's not the grants the taxes that we collect for them is onethird of the mill so what we have to incorporate and so that is the library tax at the same time we have to give them the whole amount so you see on both on the right basically still part of the tax billed the municipal portion right and that's a portion that's set by the state yeah okay I was just curious cuz I saw the number higher I wasn't sure if over the last two years it's been shoo so how do how do you stop how do you how do you stop it no the library 13 mil what does that mean the tax that we Levy right what's what one3 note yeah it is a it's basically a Sign by the state the state tell all the municipalities how much the library tax will be it's not us it's you obviously it's something that is given the the mayor and Council have the choice if they want to give more to add more to the budget and it's based on our assessed valuation so when that changes then the amount changes to them of what the minimum that we have to give it's the minimum Library tax gotcha okay okay but when you look at the group insurance right a 1.5 increase which is a 15% increase plus the 3.3 million for um recycling recycling that was 57% yeah plus the out of cap solid waste of 2.2 2.3 almost yes that's where you're getting almost you said it 8 point some million dollar correct about yeah at eight or so yeah and then on the revenue on the revenue side you have to make up the $5 million million that from you lost for for the arpa yeah um and I noticed also because I uh asked this question today the unclassified emergency author is the Whitehead Road piece right yes that's for Whitehead Road cuz we don't know that's the 152 380 yeah right when you do an emergency like that you have to raise it the next year in your current fund budget in your tax even though it may be paid the lean right the tax so but we can't right so this is the amount of the emergency that went over what you know we had you didn't have that in the budget in 2023 you had not budgeted for it yeah exactly and they they actually was the emergency at the beginning you passed a resolution for a lot more but we we wanted to just then we amended to cancel whatever we didn't use because then if we would have pass it for the or amount then you have to raise it the next year and you're more in the hall the next year yeah okay all right well let's you want to jump into the worksheets y yeah so our total budget is actually less right than last year M it it is but you have to consider that we don't have a lot of the grants in they were in last year and aren't in this year and so if you strip away the grants and I think that was what was in the mayor's uh uh message budget message was that the the actual Appropriations are 3% higher this year than last year than last year like they introduced gotcha but some of those um yeah 3% some of those um grants we could still obtain correct oh yes we expect a a good portion of them and we have others that we know that we're we're going to be awarded or have been awarded too we just haven't added them yet yeah so program is running great but you really can't look at it you know Apples to Apples because we don't have them all listed there right yet so okay plus those uh those uh grants are earmarked for specific purposes they wouldn't really go to the general budget but that money then gets pushed back right yeah that's true so to Hope has got moving forward yeah because remember in the budget in a balanced budget you have the revenue coming in for the grant and you have the appropriation it's just this washes in your budget but it changes the totals I mean coming out of a post-pandemic world are we worried that the grants will take a significant hit and we won't have as many I think there was some worry to that but I don't know we just using Millennium and um taking opportunities that we never took before in years past I think that's done us very well so if there are some that are drying up we don't know as much we're applying for things that we app for before okay just to give you an idea when we adopted the budget last year we have 2,570 th000 and change in Grants MH throughout the year we passed resolution for chapter 159 to add those grants to the budget for a total of 5,981 th000 plus so almost $6 million came in throughout the year so that that that's a lot so can I ask you off topic uh it's it's very rare that we're in an open meeting like this and we're allowed to speak right we're on the record and it's it's good because I actually we have the opportunity all be here together and it's legal yeah so um you know it's tough it's tough trying to have a conversation there there's other towns that I know um ex and I'm going back to the vehicles right because it's it's a problem uh it's been a little bit of a problem so other we we use police vehicles at our high schools right there's a police vehicle sitting outside the high school there's other towns and other counties in the state that have sponsorships for those Vehicles they'll make them their vehicles so they might not be a blue and white vehicle it may be you know I've seen purple and yellow ones and they accept sponsorships for those Vehicles yeah is that something that we would be allowed to do I mean I would think it was legal if other people are doing it is it something that we could look at doing for maybe partial payment on some of the vehicles to help them out and then maybe we put those dare vehicles at the high schools because we want them to be visible is that possible I I think it's certainly possible I'm not familiar with the process necessarily of how you go through all of that but I do know in the last town that I was in yes they had they I think they only had one specialized vehicle but they had obtained it that way and used it as their deer vehicle and then had that at the the schools what what are the businesses that so it could be a business it could be the dealership itself it could be it could be uh it could be a sponsorship they put a little insal on the vehicle and then when the vehicle goes you know on how they pares right it's advertising for them and it's good for the town it's a d vehicle to keep kids off of drugs the businesses are sponsored there and the cars parked in front of the school five days a week there all kinds of programs not even just for police vehicles as well but I realize that that's what you're focusing on and it makes sense I'm just trying I don't understand what that would look like the vehicle yeah like is it a police car with a police car but it says D written on the side like d to keep kids off drugs I I'll pull up some pictures later and that's fine I don't I've never seen that I don't know if I've ever seen that just trying to figure out a way that we can help you know look if we can help out and you know it's like in the NBA they have the little patches yeah on there on um and we'll get into the worksheet I I just have one quick question on the um public private revenues that is on page uh section three page one mhm that took a significant hit that is what does that include what is included in that woman exactly the grants that I was just saying it went from 2.5 and then we added almost 6 million so when you look at the revenue section you actually this has the this is comparison of the budget when was they adopted adopted budget then the appropriation side that you tabs that you have there and the revenue tabs and John correct me if I'm wrong but those the are the actual final numbers once the grants were included right correct on the revenue on appropriation side so I know we have have 1.1 million there I mean do we expect significantly more than that yes yeah just just right now I think there will be a grant that we be putting a either passing a res resolution after we adopt the budget it's going to be 1.7 million for the library so you know there might be some New Jersey do grants that they we didn't get the award letter before the budget that we might be adding later and what does that go towards that it goes towards uh or it comes in as a wash remember because we'll bring in the grant as Revenue but also put in the appropriation so it's not going to change anything in terms of your your tax what you have to raise for your your tax but it's great because you're not using your own money or taxpayer's money to fund the projects that you want you're using Grand money okay but over and above the 1.1 million that we receive that goes into Surplus or that just as a no it just through this this fund and actually takes gets taken care of over in Grant funds so it really has no effect on on your operating budget okay okay so you'd have to find some other source of income right like when we got the art money that there was no uh we got those monies in and you could use them as Revenue replacement that's unusual for a grant that doesn't usually happen okay but that was a special uh a special thing you could also use it right to offset some of your Appropriations which is exactly what we did right we used it for offsetting uh First Responders and our garbage garbage so I mean we you know as high as everything is I think we also have to you know give ourselves a pat on the back too because if we were still in the state health benefits plan they're looking at Double Digit increases again yes so while we I know it was a very painful it was a difficult process to go from fully insured the self insured where we are now had we not done it we would have been behind a bigger eightball because of the the big increase that's coming uh July 1st and they had an over 20% increase not too long ago about a few years ago so just just a couple years ago two years ago I think they had a 23% increase it's going to be double digits this year having another double digits so yeah well it was nice to at least be a a talk like this yeah and I I noticed um that we took this year our Surplus utilized is uh 8 million rather and last year we had 8.5 um the reason why that is reduced slightly is because um of the the concern of just our rating and and you know to take too much more than that is that is that safe to say I'm just trying to understand why we yeah I I don't think it's a concern as much as right like uh last year's budget we had ended the prior year with about 17 million in Surplus so we roughly used half of it and so that was acceptable and and and we weren't worried about the ratings at that point and so we've finished last year with with just over 15 million so originally we started to look at well let's use half of it again right we were at 7 and A2 but then we uped it a little bit right just to make the the the budget balance we still think that that's acceptable you have a healthy Surplus you have a really good uh history on the Surplus since taking office right and so since starting with 2020 where we were left with very little Surplus and you've continued to build it and so it and done the right things that helps build the Surplus and that stability and so uh and and I think we talked about this oneon-one but um we ended this last year with 15 million and so you might say well that's a concern because we ended year before with 17 million right we didn't replace everything we used however and this is due to your your CFO Who and the rating a gencies also love it but instead of putting everything that we end up making right in Surplus um Eugenia has has suggested that we start reserving it in specific reserves for accumulated leave which we use to pay out when people retire we have a lot of retirements coming up this year um the other reserves you started a recycling Reserve so that we have some money in there that if recycling gets even more out of of hand than what it is at this point we still have a little bit of Reserve to be able to cover that and so the reserves that you were able to set aside were just just over 2 million right no a lot more than that well I me in the one year yeah in the one year we also have that reserve for the storm that we started that's right now we're starting to build that bed reserve for the Self insurance right or the health insurance that too because we're self-insured and so you have those little Reserves and they're not so little but they're you know you're starting to build those again it creates that stability and that foundation so there is at least 2 million that we set aside last year so we really would have ended the year in Surplus with that same 17 million so we did we did replace as much as we used and it's commendable to you guys uh well to you girls right of what you've done and and guys I guess oh sorry I was looking at them John listen I'm short I couldn't see him behind his sign but no I mean really it's commendable because right you're right in 20120 we had $6 million in Surplus we're looking at three time you know roughly two and a half to three times that yeah what we have now and and that's that's commendable to to this Administration you know I think most people won't look at all that they'll just say hey you know this is that and this went up and that went up and but we've done a great job and that's that's a compliment to all of you and and of you too because again you understand it all and you know what's important to put things in the budget and then so when we bring you some of these things you know it's maybe not me so much I tried to give the guy a dollar an hour race I mean I think you're all right with that I think you're right so yeah thank you and that's why when we went to SMP in February there were you know they were very happy with the course that we were following and now we have uh for May that we go back to do the permanent bonding and the bond and bond anticipation note they are looking they said they don't even have to basically do the whole interview again that as long as we send them the annual financial statement the budget then they would send questions to us and this way we can answer but you know they were very happy with the way they interview went in February we got an upgrade right didn't we no we didn't not yet not yet we're working for it working for an upgrade we'll see we're coming we're getting close it's tough to get that that last positive outlook yeah positive out we had a positive outlook yes that's always a good thing to have that's a good thing to have we great rating but we we want the the Magnificent rating so but it's very hard to make that jump but we'll keep working at it it's going to save us money to get there too yes every time you take one of those incremental steps up saves us a little money when we have to borrow it does you're right so it has a longterm benefit you and rest of your team I'm sure we're going to get there so we have a great team here everybody do we want to go through the worksheets go ahead get in there get in those work I see red marks and highlights now we compliment him let's take I'm Jing take it away um auditing Services no changes for me anyone no anyone we'll jump in the auditing service is for a mercadian because he still doing the audit for 2023 that we pay in 2024 okay um I have no no question on the next category we're into fin uh Finance Administration um so on page two uh other professional consultant Services there's a a 211% decrease um a decrease what's your question no no that's not my question no I check mark that was good that was good um no just uh no questions take better sticky notes I know I got to can't understand your own not the decreas is due because we did the the RP in banking last year and as part of that the new bank is paying for all the payroll services that we have okay so that that was supp of they that was in that line okay we're still splitting our bank Services between couple banks right no just yes yeah we do couple yes yes we have a lot of our deposits with First Bank who won the RFP which is the Hamilton Bank the um and then William pen William pen and also Commerce Bank okay a small amount of Commerce Commerce you mean TD no no no it's AAL Bank commercial I forgot the small little Bank yeah okay I'm not familiar with that one it's only a small amount you will see the same thing for the tax collector also they're picking up H some of the services like she used to pay for the arm more car service three times a week they're picking up that service and also they choose to pay for p Argo which is they company that sends they picks up the electronic payments and send them to them electronically so they're beinging off so small things but everything yeah I know we we were actually able to generate more revenue for the first time in a while off our savings so that's good mm did we have um any K Roberts in there last year or no also we yes all right so that might be a little we had the Consulting also last year there not for the whole year year right you can see that 22 when we had the consultant fulltime and we had the prime point which is the payroll company that was the highest highest so Revenue Administration moving over to oh you know what before you jump up so malamu what are they the underwriters for the bonds yes that's Bond Council okay some of they for Bond Council so these some of the fees comes out of finance and then some of the other fees like whenever we go out to bond comes out of the section 220 of the bone ordinance Revenue Administration first page I don't have anything uh other professional consultant on page two um so this was uh okay it was budgeted in in 2023 102 and we had budgeted for this year 95,000 which was a decrease um any need for that I mean is that just because of the admin software we're concerned about no that's a pay Argo on the armor car service she's no longer paying for that yeah she does have for that okay okay what the other the other question I had not that I want to put more money into to the budget but I see that it says on other contractual items you have actual spent was um on page three 4,220 and you had budgeted 500 is there a concern there cuz I you know that number is staying consistent 500 the firearm for the I I don't know but I can check into it I just didn't know I just didn't know we'll have to look at that and see what the charge might have been something that was mis misapplied I don't know okay I was just curious and I didn't have anything on tax assessment um I don't know if my colleagues you have any tax assessment no works good I went through everything we let we let you Jenny off easy no she's doing a great job great job Ean and John you too and obviously Kathy thank you for I think okay I'm looking at it and it's the lease of the she was paying out of that line for the lease of the coping machine all right so it was misapplied so it misapplied that's what it was it was another line item I saw should have been reclassified cop okay okay we missed it oh I had one quick question saw this so you know on page this is my last question on on tab three it's my favorite favorite council meeting honestly since I've been here I've learned more tonight and you guys have explained everything so much listen I I always appreciate the budget meetings Okay Alison does not share my enthusiasm but it's my favorite meeting so far I said I've said it before we get a look under the hood like we never get the rest of the year not that you guys aren't transparent you're always transparent but this is where you set aside the time to do it to make sure that you're there's no better time to ask questions and when you're asking us for money it's an open public meeting we're allowed to all talk which we're never allowed we can't four of us can't ever sit together yeah so this is where we get to sit and ask our questions that I would never get to ask relatively informal and then I ask my question and then he's probably going to ask you the same question guess what now we're all here yeah yeah no and I think it's good too because you don't always get um governing bodies that want to really closely look at everything or let's say they all say they want to but they don't all do that so I'm glad that you do and that you want to and that you have these open conversations because you you need to and we appreciate it a lot appreciate all the questions sorry yes I think Anthony should buy stock in the Post-it note company because you got so many so many notes we should it's better I had one one time that did paper clips on paper clips on every oh my gosh so no I just have one quick question just so I understand this page one on uh the tab three it says 8 oh no oh yeah you're right tab two page 1 18.5 on just a detailed current budget Revenue right y it says 8.5 million in Final in 2023 but then if I go over to what you um then if I go over though to um Tab four yeah and I look at current budget revenues I see under 2023 8.6 so what was it like P two this the page on section two is the adopted budget versus the adopted budget comparison introduced budget versus introduced budget comparison if you remember there's an amendment that UPS at 8.5 to 8.6 oh we we we voted V say it should say so this is as the one in section two is the introduced budget comparison to and then after your budget workshops you ended up with 8.6 million in there so that's a good catch though here we go see I the revenue and the Appropriations are the final final numbers 2023 after all the GRS and everything under the current budget Revenue that was that 100,000 you saved the tax payers last year all right I just want to make sure for clarity yeah good all right yeah all right thank you I appreciate all your time tonight um and thank you Council for helping house and always and John John did a great job with the project are we off to record motion we're adjourned oh no MO