so I would like to thank good evening it's Wednesday April 10th it's 7:06 PM I'm Christy budro chair of the Hatfield school committee and I'd like to welcome you to our April business meeting of the Hatfield school committee and as we call this meeting to order um we're going to start um first with public comment and I would just like to remind folks FKS that um public comment should be on topics of things that are on our agenda this evening is there anyone physically with us that would like to make a public comment is there anyone joining us online if you could identify in the chat that you would like to make a public comment okay can I just get verification from those of you that are joining remotely that you can hear me just because we want to just do a little Tech check and we get anyone to be on screen with a thumbs up thank you so much appreciate that um so seeing no interest in making public comment this evening we're going to move on to Mission moments and if anyone would like to share I will mute and turn the floor I'd like to share one if that's okay um we had a a great field trip and I think the mission moment for me uh most recently is the look on our students faces during the moment of totality for the eclipse on our field trip to Vermont um it was pretty spectacular um two things actually one um a huge shout out to Mr April for organizing the solar eclipse viewing there was a lot of families that came out to support and stand in the fields to watch that even though it wasn't a total eclipse it was very close and it was really cool um the other one is the be internet awesome um event that happened on Friday evening I was unfortunately not able to attend however I understand there was a little over 70 families and uh or total people that showed up which was fantastic um the posters uh Mr April setting went off without a hitch and uh kudos to um Jennifer margy's and Mike April for supporting that staff as you guys have heard we have the new IEP coming out next year and so we did the first of three offerings of an inservice um with myself and Shannon simsic um and and uh Shannon self and Lisa Swanson went to dadam Massachusetts for a full day um about the new IEP from districts that have piloted this year and we went to break out groups about what they learned and their tips and tricks so um feeling like we're supporting uh that new initiative mute we're still working through some AI um issues with our minute taking but we think we have it solved so next month be prepared for many months of minutes um but the consent agenda is off for this evening and so um we wanted to make sure that we started this evening with the topic that we thought would probably raise the most concern and so we're going to start with a conversation about the potential of moving sixth grade um to Smith Academy and with that we've had a great start of the conversation and I think the the only thing I I wanted to sort of preface with is we've had a lot of interest in with a lot of questions that made maybe a few assumptions and I just want to say I think we started the conversation with the public very early so that the whole public came into this conversation with the school committee and it's still a point of exploration so we learned some of what we wanted to learn about the last meeting we have more to hear tonight um and we will be back meeting again on the 22nd of April so with that I will turn it over to Dr Driscoll so thank you so um we can jump right in here um I there were several questions that came up at the at the last meeting that we had that I think are um you know important to address um so we're lucky enough to have J here our de of student support as well as our athletic director I know there were a few athletic related questions um as well as M jie shr who is a sixth grade um teacher at the elementary school um who have joined us as well um so one of the one of the the first things I'd like to talk about was um is that I think it caught some people maybe off guard or by a little a little bit by surprise when we talked about U having kind of what the rotation might look like with the sixth grade at the meeting where uh we talked about having sixth grade for their their core academic classes kind of stay with the the um same sixth grade team that that would move up to the the Middle High School um excuse me um and then kind of include into the rotation the other pieces of the Middle School um so I've I've I think there are um I think there are reasons to to do it that way uh both logistical reasons but primarily um kind of student centered reasons around why that that might be um might be a really good idea um one of the things I i' I've drafted is what it's is not the schedule but it's a potential schedule of what it might look like and I'd like to hand that to the um I think I have enough for everyone here in the room right now um so I'll let that that get handed around so you'll notice as you look at is that there is a um there is a it's a 7-Day rotation that we work on um and during the the course of the day we have six uh kind of larger academic blocks that of of time um so we start the day everyone starts the day in what we call home Nest um it's like home room but Falcons and that's the the the start of the day for everyone um it's where we make announcements uh where we make uh the middle school team spends time making sure kids are prepared for the day they know what the schedule is they know what the U that they're prepared for classes they have pencils um that kind of thing uh from there uh the middle school has their four kind of core academic classes first um so they go uh a block is from 737 to 8:27 and then B Block which is 829 to 919 um is there so there's two academic blocks during that time after that block there's a chunk of time for what we call advisory um that's kind of a break in the day it's where we do some social emotional kind of learning uh we have second step that is is taught during that time um students also have a chance to get a snack at that time if they if they uh need or would like that's provided by by the school through the breakfast program that's also time where as we're thinking about one of the the primary concerns that came up of recess that we could have as a a block of time for a little movement a little break little outside time for the um you know that came up as a concern for sixth graders but quite honestly I think that could be something that we bring to the middle school that could benefit all middle schoolers um that we can we can incorporate following that block of time there's two more academic classes um um those are the um kind of the the the second group of kind of like core academic classes and then um we have lunch so lunch it doesn't say on here but um lunch is after that fourth class so at the 11:51 time there um it's not at 11:51 it's about 25 minutes until 11:51 it's part of part of that that d block we call it um after lunch we have two more classes in the afternoon two more block classes um so those are kind of more of those elective type classes for the the middle school so as you look at this schedule um thinking about from a what the the day in the life of a sixth grader might look like those first two classes math and Ela if we're looking straight down that day one column um that might be a time where they might have um you know they they might have um Miss Bailey for math and then they might switch to MRE or Ela as as other middle school students would typically switch from their math DEA teacher then after advisory they may have they may go back to um Miss Bailey for Science and then miss shett for social studies certific certifications of our teachers would would allow for that as well as um you know it would still have that that kind of built-in movement in looking at some of the research around what um what high performing what good middle schools do really well um there is there's a lot to be said for what the middle school team is already doing here um a lot of the the the things that are that are on the list in terms of of spending time focusing on building relationships between students and staff um making sure that that student social emotional well-being is kind of built into into into the day um structuring the middle school schedule to allow for teaming and allow for team decision- making allow for that collaboration um that's ingrained into the schedule that we have um and it allows them Beyond just to be Beyond just making sure that that is an embedded time that they can focus on students um it allows them to to kind of reflect on their own practice um kind of make sure that that they're the work that they're doing is focused on the the vision and goals of the school and where they'd like to see the Middle School go now the two things um you know a couple a couple of the other things that came up um in doing so and it was kind of a a nice exercise to do some of this research um are things that we've been working on as a school in terms of Team teaching some interdisciplinary work which we spent a lot of time um working on two things that came up that um that that are worth considering are the idea of looping so right now our Middle School team is set up to do just that our SE sixth grade and seventh grade teachers have the same or seventh and eighth grade te students excuse me have the same teachers for their academic classes in seventh grade and eth grade um so that that is something that we unintentionally I would say um although I wasn't here when the decision was made to do that so maybe it was done with a lot of intention um and knowing the middle school team it likely was done with quite a bit of intention um that is something that that Studies have shown can have positive impacts up up through the middle school years to have those have students loop with teachers the other thing that that came up the other other piece that came up is by having fewer teachers in the rotation um as part of the the research that came up um and so so that that's kind of where where this this structure comes in right now we have we have the looping piece that we already do with the seventh and eighth grade um and this would allow more time with those core teachers it would allow more time for students to be in front of their um you know that their math and science teacher as well as the English and social studies teacher um it would it would allow for those relationships to form quicker um and it and and that that was one of the pieces that that came through that um oftentimes it's a it's a really big jump for students to go from elementary school where they typically have one you know one teacher for the vast majority of the day um and then you know with the exception of maybe specials to go into a situation where then you have every class is a different teacher you're you're moving around a lot more um and and one of the one of the the studies that I looked at said that um oftentimes with Middle School the the fewer transitions that you can have the better results that you see both academically and socially um this feels like way to do that right now we have a group um if we're talking about the fifth grade we have a group of students who have not um they they they haven't had the experience of kind of switching like like our sixth grade um does currently um so this would allow them to get more time with the with their core academic teachers um to get to know them better to get to support them more and still get the Middle School experience um one of the one of the benefits that I that I think uh came came through in conversations with with folks um is the potential for more uh more electives more often U for students coming into into the middle school and and by having those core academic classes taught by um miss sheret and miss Bailey that would you know it would still allow for those opportunities to exist if you look at the schedule um every day students will have either health or PE um skills enrich skills enrichment uh what we call xblock which is our our clubs um our genius hour computer science uh they'll have the opportunity for band um and and those those opportunities I think are they they wouldn't be lost on sixth grade students I think they I think they could really benefit from having having those opportunities so I think you know I think what this this does is it allows us to to support this group of students coming in to still provide the transitions the designated time for those core academic pieces um with with the the sixth grade team as well as to have the you know the enrichment opportunities that a middle school can provide um beyond beyond simply the um you know th those pieces of it having um having the same math teacher and science teacher as well as the same English and social studies teacher um it it does allow for more of that cross-disciplinary work to happen um it allows for the um the curriculum of social studies to inform the curriculum of ela and vice versa um and and it it creates creates that opportunity in those classrooms too which um we have seen you know as a that that as a kind of a core component with what as what middle school does um we've seen to be very effective so that I I I think that um you know if if M would like to speak to um things that I that I haven't said you're more than welcome but um I think I think by having having this structure um it would allow us to support our students more um rather than less which I think is always always a goal that we would have um beyond beyond that you know we're always assessing how we're how we're doing and how the you know how our our systems and how our structures are able to support kids um if we find next year that hey we really think it there could be a bigger benefit from a rotation that that's something we could we could potentially um potentially assess and think about likewise we we might take a look and say Hey you know this this looping thing is really great and reassess structure that way um you know it allows us some flexibility to do those things that we we might not have currently given this is a fair amount of data to take in and it's the first time everybody's seeing it I just want to take a pause do we want to ask them questions now do we want to keep going Dr Driscoll do you have an opinion on that um I'm happy to fi questions the the one one type of question I would ask to hold back from right now is just about specific classes that are on here because this is a it's a draft um so you know I we could talk a little bit about what skills enrichment is um what x block is that that kind of thing but um again this is this is a draft and and subject to change yes yes CS is uh stands for computer science thank you um yes um advisory would that be just with the sixth grade teachers or is that going to be split between all of the middle schools not not necessarily so advisory and home Nest students have the same teacher for advisory and home Nest um and so it could be with the middle school team it could be a time where I mean we have our um our den of students has an advisory our adjustment counselor has an advisory um so we have different different folks um it would probably be with the middle school team um but not necessarily with the sixth grade teachers that's what I thought but I was asking so that absolutely others could understand as well um lunch would be with the seventh and eighth graders as well or sixth grade alone uh right now we have a middle school lunch um it we may look to shift how that is done next year just based on numbers um if we had 678 Al together that might be a lot um we might want to go to a 6789 10 11 12 model um that's that that's a possibility too um and but they wouldn't sixth grade would they wouldn't be with high schools right they would they would only be potentially with other MD um art would is that a half a year with health or the how would that look the rotation is um and I'm sorry you said not to ask about specific it just was one that was missing that is it's not on there it be on here um so typically Health uh health and art and PE will be in a rotation together um for sixth grade I had envisioned um computer science band and art being in a rotation together so it's students who um and I think we will be able um to offer both band and and artc to students next year but this I would Envision having a um having that rotation so roughly two out of this two out of six days that a a a class meets um they would have have either art and computer science okay and are you going to talk later about the after two o'clock time sure and I'm happy to talk that talk about that right now I didn't want to jump ahead or anything but no one thing that we've heard is that there's considerable considerable interest in having an after school um program for students um right now we have after school sports we have um after school support that is offered every day by teachers um so students if they're struggling in math struggling English they can go and seek their teacher out for that extra support um but you know one one thing that we've we have heard relatively consistency consistently from middle school families is they would um they would like to have some kind of option uh for or after school activities that might you know potentially bridge the gap between uh when school ends on a game day and going outside to play or uh when you know when practice starts um to bridge that Gap U or if their students aren't necessarily sports-minded um to have an option for students to have something something to do after school um that's enriching um I know um Miss petre at the elementary school has started not just the after school program it has kind of robust clubs that are that have started uh down there and I think that's a a model that we could use to um we could use to develop an after school club after school um organization up here as well I think there would be interested um in doing that and I also think that as we as we potentially welcome younger students into our school we we think about the the supports that younger students need that older students might not necessarily need um and high school students are a lot more independent than middle school students um and so having that option for middle school students I think would be would be a benefit just because I'm trying to not ask specific questions about the classes that are listed here but I'm trying to get a sense of number of different teachers or adults that the sixth graders would have contact with every day so when you look at kind of the afternoon of this about how many different adults would the kids be um would the kids be learning from and how does that compare now because now they have you know there's a different art um music PE teacher so how many more adults about and and that's a great question and so um at the elementary school the the way it currently works you know students have their core teacher for um the day and when there's a special block they have the special teacher um so they have you know they have five four other adults um that teach them that they that they would need to know um that being said they only have one kind of per per day um here if we have health and PE that alternates that's that's two different teachers um we have Art band and computer science um so that's three different teachers depending on how the schedule works the computer science teacher may be one of the teachers they already have had so we have we have um you know some of our Middle School team teaches computer science um so we have we have some some teachers who do that um and so that could that could be a possibility there it would be a different class but possibly with a teacher they've already had or a different Middle School teacher that they haven't had um and then skills in skills and enrichment blocks um those are typically taught by the middle school team so it wouldn't necessarily be a um it wouldn't necessarily be a brand new teacher but it wouldn't necessarily be someone on the sixth grade team it could be someone on the seventh grade or on the middle school team that they don't have for a CL class that teachers that or it could be one the sixth grade um team is the skills and enrichment taught by the same person who does home nest and advisory no no um that that could happen but it's not it's not like you don't have to be in that group um and that's a block that's really focused on developing study skills and habits um and so that's you know just to support students and okay hey this is how you have a test coming up this is how you study for a test coming up here's what you should do um it can also be a place where students who have that support um written into their I AP um receive those Services skills around specific um academic disciplines or or study habits y Dr b um and uh potentially Co depending on the caught cohorts um they may have one of the same teachers in multiple classes so if there's two teachers say in in their English class there may also be two teachers in their math class there may not be but if there may be half of it be consistent across multiple classes as well would that usually be the classes that are co-taught are those usually co-taught by that classroom teacher and a special educator usually usually but sometimes um we because Smith Academy has a Duty block um depending on the needs of a class we may have two General Ed teachers um but uh if it's related to a student service and it's written that it's a specialed teacher then it would be a special ed teacher um but that class um is not uh for specialed students it it there's a mix of of kids in there um that for for scheduling or for our knowledge of them would benefit from having two people like the the heal art pe2 the three for yep there's there's two more um there's xblock and there's genius hour um genius hour is Middle School specific so they would have a teacher from the Middle School team for genius hour um X blocks are those Club blocks that I believe we talked about at the last meeting um and they they that is a chance where they uh May interact with older students in a structured environment um and have um the ability to kind of uh work with a teacher of of an xblock um that's focused on something that they have an interest in and share that interest with the teacher um so for example um Mr Duncan he runs rock band um so we have middle school students and high school students um riffing to Deep Purple Smoke on the Water is that what I heard um yes we have a blend of um couple 11th graders myself uh Miss Gardner um and an eighth grader in there right now and we've been working on some deep purple some uh Durand Duran um kind of an Eclectic mix of Jimmy Buffett um and it's actually it's it's pretty cool you know the kids kind of decide what what they're into and we try to help them get there and um you know one thing I found in in teaching here for a while is that we have some very talented kids who come through the building um and some kids who really Excel um in the Arts programs whether it be visual or um Musical and so this just gives them another space to practice and you know not necessarily do doing the more classical um technical stuff that they do in the Band program this is more kind of fun and you know hopefully ultimately one day it'll come back to being part of a performance during the variety show um which has always been a great success and so you know I certainly I'm not opposed to having sixth graders join rock band as long as they're willing to rock we're we're good to go um it's a fun time and I and I know a lot of the other clubs are not really age dependent either either you know um chess club Dungeons and Dragons stuff like that where you know if you can roll a die and have the imagination doesn't matter if you're 12 or or 15 or 17 and um you know due to the I guess the Cooperative nature of the X blocks it's also a space where kids can build relationships across grades um you know one thing I see here that don't remember from high school is seventh graders being friendly with Juniors and seniors and you know like high five and in the hallway and calling each other by name and shooting Hoops in the gym together and there's a lot of just kind of like Unity um and I think that xblocks help with that because they're all you know doing similar similar things with regard without regard to what grade they're in because it's all a shared interest more question it's about we have health xblock and genius that are extra over what they have at HS in terms of numbers yeah people teachers and the other the other thing to think about is frequency too um because right now in the elementary school they really only have one special per day um here they have have two um and potentially you know a third shift as the enrichment skills block that's what we call our G block that floats through and knocks one block out every every day um and so that you know there there's a potential of having three blocks a day rather than one block a day of time that's not um core academic test but you could also remember too that just because X block is a different block it doesn't necessarily mean it's a different teacher you know like an extra teacher it could be that they have an X block with their social studies teacher it could be that they have an X block with their PE teacher so it's not necessarily absolutely an extra face it could be a very familiar face Adam did you I have kind of vague questions um so when you talked about how middle schools that did well that you know fewer transitions tend to lead to better results looping tends to lead to better results is that specific to is that specifically sixth grades in Middle Schools or just in general Middle School grades that um that was that was General Middle School grades most of the middle schools that were in that particular study were six through eight grades uh six or eight schools the the biggest benefit they found was to for sixth and seventh grade um for those those things by by the time eighth grade hit um the the benefits to both uh looping as well as um kind of fewer transitions seem to seem to kind of plateau um but yeah it included mostly sixth to eighth grade schools this is coming out of the Duke study this is like pulling that out of no this this is in the Duke study this was um uh the the I read on the the teaching report I'm happy to send it to the the community or the committee as well that would be appreciated do you have others okay um so some of this has sort of come out I I want to get to how this differs from we we talked a little bit about how this differs from current sixth grade plans because there already is a little switching because of the co- teing model um and we've talked about the numbers of specials in the day so there's a little bit more time what i' particularly like to learn is sort of how much time on core academics in this sort of setup and model versus what we currently do at the elementary school so just looking at only sixth um and how different is that there are three of you who could address this beautifully and I so however you want to do it go ahead um So currently we have 80 minute blocks at the elementary school for Math and Ela so this don't make me do math quickly I'm not the math teacher 50 minutes thank you so this is about 30 minutes less per day on those two things but we only have about 30 minutes a day on science and social studies and so this would be an additional 20 minutes a day on science social studies each and then they only get 50 minutes of a special at this point how does that compare to other districts foras standards like what is expected for a sixth grader to spend on on their cores so in terms of science and social studies our sixth grade standards are grouped together with the um seventh and eighth grade standards and so we have more of those standards than grades K through five do currently so that is part of where wor having a struggle in terms of meeting all those standards all the time um I'm not sure how that compares to other six stade outside of District the enrichment block math or Ela related as well so there's 50 minutes set for that but then there would be a more targeted time within that other 50 minute block so we wouldn't get to 80 necessarily but more than 50 and they work on the um the the way that the science and social studies standards are written they have to embed Ela standards within them um so it's a different way of thinking about it so it's I just wanted to it's not just 50 minutes but it is 50 minutes for math plus some in enrichment but Ela is certainly spread throughout so one of the concerns I've heard probably more from a parent standpoint in general coming out of the pandemic is kids reading skills is just different than when it I I think what I've heard prior and so as we look at that in particular is that going to get it is does that show up in enrichment and in ela um and how much time on reading at an elementary school model versus a middle school model and and what is it may be too soon to have had that conversation but that I'm curious what that conversation s like what are you looking at how does that get addressed sure I I I I don't think it's too soon to have that conversation um because I think that has been um you know that that that's been pretty well documented the um the of long-term effects of of that the closure um that being said we've already started talking with the the sixth grade team about how they might Envision those enrichment blocks um and skills blocks running um additionally I know that um some of the intervention teachers at the elementary school have reached out about um possibly continuing support for the um the upcoming um sixth grade to make sure that that the skills that they're working on are really dialed in um to get them to get them prepared um schedule wise I'm not sure how that would would work yet but I know that the kind of the intent and the will is certainly there between enrichment skills yeah there's there's plenty of time um in you know the um the the ELA curriculum is you know in the Middle School levels is a lot of kind of comprehension based reading um you know reading for meaning reading for um you know for the intent of the author um and as students grow older and they matriculate through there's less focus on the kind of the the um the the the core I guess Foundation of of learning to read um that being said there are students that will need that support and um I think the you know that that's that that would be the expectation would be able to use that enrichment skills time to build those build those skills so that could access the ELA curriculum um in a in a meaningful way other questions I had one go um with that conversation so if we have students who need more support or have IEPs or are getting some type of related service still as sixth graders that would then that those Services potentially if it were appropriate would be built into these enrichment scale blocks yeah sure um so yes and um so uh we have uh we offer different uh individualized supports based on on the the plan so for instance with the idea of literacy that we haven't in recent years at Smith Academy needed um a targeted learning to read or or literate still still learning to read um literacy kind of uh level Ela service with a cohort of kids individual here and there and we've met that need but not a cohort um and we're we're looking that this next year whether or not sixth grade is coming here we're going to need to have a literacy um service for some students and so where that service we just like a skills class or a pullout math class or a pullout English class they'll happen within the schedule in the way that makes the most sense for the student because we don't want to limit that student so for instance um we may have a pullout English class that happens at the same time as an English class or we may have that a student goes to the general English class or the pullout English class and and has a literacy block or two a week um so we make it work within the schedule based on student needs um and we've uh the the Lisa the upper grade um uh Elementary special ed teacher along with the middle school and high school special ed team here at Smith Academy has a you know every spring we do this whole plot of what classes we need to have we share that with the guidance counselor and she helps plug it in um because skills class particularly um has we've been able to hone that um into more specific reasons why kids have a skills block so on the grids it's written as either executive functioning academics or transition um and so we're able to manipulate the schedule a bit better so that kids who are in skills are there for a similar reason um whereas in the past it was for like lots of reasons um and so that work is done proactively now we in the guidance uh department is working on that um it's it which classes run when will be a flurry of of shifts if we put sixth grade um for next year so but we'll be able to do it so I just want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly so if you had students because it seems like with this model there's there's more variety and there's more opportunity but not but for some kids right having they can't having more on what is already kind of a lift for just your core would be too much so you would use these enrichment skill blocks or you would look to take some of what is extra for the students that can do it and that would just be doubling down on more of what you need during that block and um and so thank you that answers my question and the last question I had is for next year how many of those Specialists or do we know what the PLL would be from elementary to here with that shift with those with those Specialists to make sure because the structure is changing that those students are still getting supported the biggest PLL that I can see um is related to increasing the counseling um case load here um it it certainly will mean you know a bit of a of a shift you know maybe for one or two cases related to speech and OT um UHC but by and large a lot of those Services have Faded by the end of sixth grade um but counseling services are a service that we kind of see sometimes come and go but um particularly as hormones come into play and changes happen with social needs um in middle school and high school we sometimes see an increase in the need for uh counseling services already um and so the that counseling case load will be an added um uh amount here that that that's the biggest piece that we see um some of the other needs that we've talked about we'd already started to problem solve um around uh if for instance Like A literacy block if there we we already were talking about that maybe needing to be a cross- graded uh cohort if it was similar skills that they needed um so to me that's the biggest thing that's jumping out that we've talked about I don't know if you had anything else there the uh in terms of supporting in that um in the the literacy block or the math math enrichment block um in in pulling from you know pulling resources from the elementary school um that's not we haven't that conversation would come from the the scheduling looking at student needs looking at our schedule and the Elementary schedule and saying hey is there a time um that makes sense where we have this you know that this skills block at this certain time where uh we could use a little extra support and and someone's available that we were not at a point yet um scheduling wise where we can we've been able to make those those determinations I have one more question I'm just wondering um because I for parents and kind of jumping from that like your your sixth grade to now this model that we're talking about I'm just wondering who do we think kind of in this model becomes sort of the point person for parents or for struggling students because it you know it would have been J you in the sixth grade teachers but now if your if you're seeing that student if I'm understanding this correctly potentially only for like two four academic blocks a day I feel like for kids that are going to struggle with this like who who's their person and's their parents person yeah and that's a great question um and the there there's two an two answers to it first of all if they're struggling in a specific class um that you know that we always encourage parents to go to that teacher first um at the elementary school you only have really that one poor teacher so that's an easier thing to do um but that's also part of the reason that we put the advisory block into the schedule is that the advis um isn't just like a you know someone that teaches the second step class um they spend time in advisory talking about academics setting goals um and that the adviser can become kind of that point person for a student um I will also say that part of what the middle school team does really well is they spend time when they meet as a team to coordinate communication to parents um that's one of the things that we receive um routine very positive feedback about is that they will uh because you know if Connor is struggling in um health class and also in I don't know in music and then also in math um it opens the space for that conversation to happen where they can say hey look this is what we're seeing kind of across the board um we need we need to to put some things in place so that's part of the middle school team structure that allows for that that coordinated um kind of kind of communication effort to to happen um and so that's a kind of a multi M multi pointed answer but can I add something to that also um um right now that's we also do it in sixth grade so I only teach English and social studies so I may have a student in my home room and because of services they receive I may only see them for that half an hour of social studies a day even though they're in my home and classroom so I'm the point person but they're also parents I think we communicate well in sixth grade but we um have a Weekly Newsletter we most parents email both me and Megan when there's a concern I might have a parent email me about math but I don't teach math so then Megan and I formulate responses together or we are usually part of the conversation as a team um because when we departmentalize that's something we needed to make sure we were able to do um we typically run like parent teacher conferences as a team as well so um we've been we've been doing it this way for a while already and often times you know when this question is true for all seventh graders when they come up here this like when we do our transition meetings all the you know so um so it's not a anything um uh foreign to to folks when uh elementary kids are transitioning up um and like Connor said it kind kind of depends on the kid um because the the um the advisoring teacher may be the P perfect person but if they maybe do receive special ed services and they're with Mary Shanel three blocks a day um in a kot and a pull out whatever then Mary's probably the point person um but because it's so small and they're all together and they have that very amazing um Middle School team consult also we have the BST process here as well it's it runs a little bit different than than the elementary school they they're caught there everybody is is always if you know if one of the teachers is emailed everybody pretty pretty well knows very shortly that there's something going on and we figure it out so we've we've seen sort of what kids would pick up I'm doing really quick math and with Jenny I'm like I don't want to do Math on the Spot so it's 250 minutes of core Plus enrichment versus 220 minutes of core so that's this looks like 20 minutes of seal is there a number of minutes that it happen in elementary sixth grade foral officially do it once a week we also have our buil in so I guess I gu um second that time once a week and then we for about okay so that sounds close um this schedule looks like it would be about a hundred minutes on I'm going to just lump it as specials some of it is more academic focused some of it is more elective focused um I guess my question in all of this is sort of like okay see what we get what would what would they give up what would they not have in this shift of schedules does that do we know what that is um so we just we heard um from Cross table recess is is that something that that currently is not embedded within the middle school schedule but again that's something that um how many unes a day are sixth graders at recess it's uh I think it's 27 minutes here 26 minutes leave they're usually done with their food in the first eight kind it on some recess after lunch we did yeah so so currently um now that it's getting warmer and nicer again um we'll start doing this more is at the um toward the tail end of lunch last 10 minutes or so um oftentimes they'll you know they'll get brought outside for uh you know that that chunk of time so if they're finished with their lunch early um or even if they're they're not in finish up after we've already gone out they can they can kind of come outside too um to play soccer run around roll down the little Hill um all kinds of stuff they do I'm I'm just cognizant that it's we're an hour into our meeting and it's this is really important stuff I want to also hear from our dean of students um and I'm sure there may be more questions but if there's any burning question on scheduling kind of stuff let's let's not skip it I just have one followup we talked about the strengths of of looping what are the known weaknesses of looping um the the the the drawbacks um have been that that students are with the same teacher um for you know in many cases that that were were cited for you know two or more years in a row so if there are personality conflicts um that exist that are that are hard to hard to get past um that can be a drawback um that being said most I think the um the benefits that were seen in that in that study far outweighed some of those and there are ways to work around that too related to looping are the advisory assignments looped yes um so you're adviser for sixth grade might be your adviser for seventh might be your adviser for eth yes yep um largely sometimes there's some some change again um throughout the year not throughout the year but but between years um some years we have uh staff who um may decide hey I really want to have an advisory this year I didn't have one last year I might have a staff member that says hey you know I really um I love advisor but I'd like to like to maybe have one this year because it's an extra extra stien so there's some shuffling that that can happen there so it's not necessarily a guaranteed looping but oftentimes oftentimes it is sorry I have one more question so the current sixth grade teachers then under this model when they're not teaching the sixth grade students in math or Ela that's when they're kind of filtering into this Middle School team and they're cover they're covering like they're covering enrichment or they're covering like during this afternoon yeah so so currently the schedule um for a a a teacher is um five excuse me five uh four academic blocks per day one Duty block in one uh prep period um and so a Duty block may be covering another class if a class needs coverage it might be hallway Duty um to just make sure hallways are controlled um for the middle school team their Duty one day um at least one day and and sometimes more than sometimes more than one day uh is their middle school team meeting so that's an assigned Duty that they they attend um and the sole purpose of that meeting is to um talk about how they're supporting students what's working what's not working um shifts that they'd like to see uh in pedagogy really to to drill down into their into their practice um and so that that that block is um that's that's the the Middle School uh Duty during that time so and that's built into the schedule as a common uh common time that all middle school students are in some of their other elective courses so in band or PE or computer science with with someone if you do have questions for me I have 15 minutes of battery left and I have to pick up so with that we're gonna move to our uh dean of student support thank you for joining us this evening um last meeting there were a number of questions that came up particular to sports and so um you get to where both your athletic director hat um and if I just cut to the chase the the most common concern I heard was the idea of a sixth grader being on a JV team that might end up playing um you know a junior that couldn't make Varsity like this this sort of David versus Goliath setup in sports and the concern for that so in whatever you'd like to share with us if you'll also make sure that you address what that might look like so I know what that looks like because that has been uh my experience with our JB soccer program and the boys for quite some time um I have often dropped off uh or get off the bus with our JV soccer team which is often largely seventh grade um in eighth grade and sometimes they will step off the bus and see guys with beards waiting to play them who drove themselves to the game and I cannot think of any particular particular incident where the physical growth difference um created an injury situation um because generally speaking if if those large individuals are on JV it's a skill issue so if we teach the kids the proper skills they can then compensate for size and speed um that being said um a lot of the Franklin County teams have Middle School sports and so this winter we were able to have a middle school basketball and a middle school for both boys and girls so we didn't have JV girls basketball because we had 10 or 12 10 or 11 seventh and eighth grade girls um and rather than have them play ninth 10th 11th graders from other schools we had I had very good games with you our local schools that we play in other sports in other leagues and whatnot um and I think the development was very po positive uh same thing with the boys we were able to have we had enough boys so we could have Varsity JB in Middle School um in the past I have certainly had eighth graders on my Varsity soccer team um playing against seniors but one of the prerequisites is that they are physically ready um and you know one like one of the concerns I had this year going into baseball season we have 12 or 14 seventh grade boys playing baseball which is awesome but I was concerned that I was going to have to put like six of them on varsity and luckily we we got more boys to come out so I think we only have a couple Middle School guys that are floating in between and maybe one or two they're they're permanent Varsity but they belong there they they have the skill set they have the you know Acumen within the game to to play properly and not be at risk um you know some sports we don't have sub varsity teams I'm thinking field hockey girls soccer uh softball right now but if we had an influx of students we might be able to have sub varsity teams with with a sport like field hockey I'm not sure how many sub Varsity offerings that would be but I do know we have a pro a wreck program in town um I also trust our coaches to not put our kids In Harm's Way um I think we have good coaches in place who understand who their players are and when it's appropriate for them to be in games versus when it's not I know like in soccer this year our seventh graders kind of gradually increased their role on the soccer team as the season went along ultimately playing some very significant um minutes in important games and and being very successful with it um so it's not a it's for me it's not a huge concern I hear it as parents I'm the father of a seventh grade uh girl who played JV soccer for Amis this year and that was an exception because of their principal situation over there she's not a big person but she has the requisite skills to navigate the field and and was just fine um so I don't see it being a huge issue unless we're forced to field a varsity team of sixth graders which I wouldn't do I would pause the varsity program and kind of build from scratch with the younger players and have a sub Varsity season in anticipation of having a varsity season in future do you see an impact from in the sports program as a whole by adding sixth grade to Smith Academy I can see where um in a couple Sports I I'll I'll say girls basketball for example it might allow us to have a varsity JB and middle school program where the sixth graders would more than likely be on the Middle School seventh graders would more than likely be on the middle school and then we'd have eighth and high schoolers that didn't make the varsity team as the JV perhaps the exceptional seventh grader might slide up to JV if that was an appropriate competition level and they were physically ready to play um um I don't see it having a negative impact on the sports programs um I think I think posit I mean adding adding middle school teams I think is a is a good thing gets the kids engaged gives them something to do after school um kind of makes them feel part of the Greater Community because they're contributing in some way they get gear that says Smith Academy on it um I also think it's a nice draw if if we're talking about school choice because once we start getting south of Hatfield there's not very many opportunities for Middle School sports you have to play wreck you have to play travel you have to play club and those are not affiliated with the the school um and so you know I see it as a positive thing both for the students who are already here and to potentially attract um middle school students into the building as well um I have one more question but I don't want to I know we're Limited in time I don't want to if somebody else has a so one of the so you get to switch hats if you don't mind um one of the things that um has come up particularly from the Duke study if that's something you might have heard a little bit about was the idea that um from the standpoint of behavior issues and like trips to the principal um that sixth graders are more likely to be in trouble in a middle school setting than an elementary setting I have some questions about that because I think the way one captures data um is different and so I'm curious if you've given any thought to what it would look like from the standpoint of Dean of student support to have sixth graders and if you have any concerns about increased disciplinary issues by adding sixth grade to with the school um I don't have any con immediate concerns um so when I became Dena students and stopped being a high school English teacher one of the things that happened almost immediately was I I got to know more middle school kids and it wasn't necessarily because they were getting in trouble um and being sent down to my office I mean not that that hasn't happened um but it allowed me to be in the hallways it allowed me to cruise through classrooms see what's going on in the classroom you know pop in on a lesson talk to kids while they're filling out a worksheet working on a lab all that stuff so for me it you know part of how I Envision this hat is building relationships with kids having conversations with kids and not being like the big bad wolf who is you know Captain detention or whatever um you know and I feel like you know maybe some of those kids that were initially sent to me for that reason I don't see that many of them anymore because instead I'd see him in the hallway they're like hey Mr Jun what's going on you know when times when's our baseball game today when's the bus leaving um you know and so yeah am I gonna probably because there's more of that age group in the building the data is going to show that more of those kids might see me but if our high school suddenly expanded in size by default I would also probably see more high school kids so I'm not worried about it um I've taught seventh grade before I've taught eighth grade before my first experience here was teaching in the middle school so you know it's I'm comfortable with whatever challenges this may bring but I'm kind of also looking forward to like the rewards as well um and I think that you know integrating the kids into the Smith Academy Community I I think could be a very positive thing for that for them and I see that in the way like I was saying before you know how our seventh graders are so comfortable walking down the hall and you know kind of giving like a little back and forth with some of our older students and you know it's and it's fun it's not like it used to be when I was in seventh grade I wouldn't have dreamed of going up to an 11th grader or a senior be like hey chirp chirp chirp and but now and you know that they just kind of know like hey okay you you guys are in seventh grade this is how you role let's go back to class and you know it it's a pretty positive relationship from my perspective do you see benefits for those interactions in terms of better behavior for younger students by being around older students um I think we have some cases where yes because um we have some younger students who seek out some of the older students and I've had conversations with the older students hey when they seek you out if you could take a walk back to their class with them that would be great and so and they have and it's and so the the the younger students kind of get that sense of likea I might be out of class little do they know we have a plan and it's they're kind of falling into it and so they get that you know I know there's some concern about recess and and moving around and break well they're taking a walk to get a drink and maybe popping in somewhere else to find you know a high schooler that they're want to chat with but that high schooler is redirecting them back to class and so it's not wasted time it's not Mischief it's it's kind of it's again it's like a little collaboration you know they're they're kind of being it's almost like a Big Brother Big Sister situation where they are redirected in a way that's kind of organic it's nice to see and I would add to that too that we've had some conversations about ways to more formalize some of some of those pieces um you know um Mr Duncan was talking about advisory if we you know had advisories paired together younger students and older students um to kind of not not every class but to have a you know how there's like reading buddies at the elementary school something like that um but more about just kind of um having a chance to to to talk with a positive peer role model um in a more formal way um you that opportunity exists it exists currently um and I think I think it's um you know something that we are in a pretty unique uh you know have pre ability to capitalize on that with our with our the community that we have here I know that recess is is a was is a big kind of Hot Topic I'm just curious what do this what do the sixth graders do right now at recess I don't to read right now the sixth graders right now just currently walk around and just talk to each other or they'll stand together and just talk they're not on the structure they're not playing a few kids will play some of the boys have been doing like wall ball they just throw a ball against the wall they kind of create this thing but generally speaking they're not out there playing a couple of questions for Mr Duncan um so just knowing with we have like the the data point of potentially having more Behavior relationships in sixth grade what can you do to try to get ahead of that curve so what I can do I think is to build relationships with some of those kids um and I know it I know I I'm not going to sit here and be like I can solve everything with magic blond I can't there's there's G to be stuff um but I don't overreact you know I I talk to the kids I get their side of the story I listen um I follow up um I communicate with their teachers um I have to communicate with parents um but a lot of what I what seems to have worked so far is to give the kids some ownership in that you know what' you do why' you do that did that seem like a good idea does it still still seem like a good idea you know what are we G to do next what those kind of questions so that it's not just me telling them like you violated this rule in the student handbook therefore you must receive this consequence because it's written in stone sometimes that happens but but um you know I really think getting to know the kids having conversations with them um letting letting them know that you know the adults in the building are people we're not just here to squish them into places and and mold them into specific molds um I think that is an important piece of that but at the same time you know the middle school team has rules I'm assuming the sixth grade team will have rules and you know they need to be followed and you know and there are reasons for that and I don't mind explaining that to the kids um you know and I tell a lot of the kids I tell them you my door is open you know and and I'll I'll talk to a student they'll be like I don't know why I did that Mr D I was like bouncing off the walls when I came into class today said you know next time you feel like you're bouncing off the walls has to use the pass come down we'll have a chat wait you know we'll get yourself together and I'll get you back to class um because ultimately I would as much as I like seeing the kids under certain circumstances I would rather they be in class because that's what they're supposed to be here to do they're here you know to improve their academic skills and stuff like that so if I can facilitate a way to deescalate or resolve and then put them back in the classroom as soon as possible that's that's really what I try to do and you know it doesn't always look exactly the same but that's that's kind of the end game that I'm working toward um whenever I do have to deal with this stuff I'm also happy to meet with you know them as a group I didn't this year because I wasn't this guy at that point I was you know High School my battery just died um but I I certainly you know in the event that the sixth grade does come up I'm assuming that Dr Driscoll and myself and and you know teachers are going to sit down down at some point say okay this is the plan you know what does day one look like what does week one look like you know what are our checkpoints what what are our expectations how are we going to help these kids transition you know for some of them they're probably like yes Smith Academy and there's probably some kids that are going to be like I wish I was still at the elementary school but we want everybody to to feel you know comfortable coming up here and um I don't have the answer but you know willing to work toward figuring it out before or in the event that it does happen for sure and then my other question is you talked about kind of the ideal circumstances in which an upper classman might interact with a younger classman um you know they meet in the hallway and say hey how you doing now get the class you KN head um but for that just kind of address parent concerns or fears of the less than ideal circumstances in which they might meet in an unsupervised manner like meeting in an Xbox for chess club when you have a junior teaching a grader how to play chess cool um but for parents who were concerned about you know potential negative unsupervised interactions have we given any more thought as to how to keep the Middle School more isolated since we do share a building and so I'm gonna I'll start by saying I think I'm going into my 20th year in this building it all kind of molds into one I usually have to sit down and like look at yearbooks and figure out when exactly it was I can't think of off the top of my head where we've had a really significant High School Middle School negative interaction and I I could be missing something or maybe something happened that I just didn't need to know about because it wasn't one of my students but I can't think of that I know we had some uh folks being in the wrong hallways wrong bath rooms this year where we just we had Duty teachers now monitor that so like if hey you're not supposed to be in this bathroom you're supposed to be in that bathroom if you could just please be where you're supposed to be and it was a pretty simple fix um but I I haven't had that you know 17-year-old doing something bad to a a seventh grader that I can think of since I've been in the building and I think think you know there probably a variety of reasons for that I think you know Middle School tends to stay on that side of the building for much of their day um but you also have older siblings who are in the high school cousins neighbors friends so that a lot of that stuff just doesn't pop up you know and if if your older brother is being a nudge to you at school that might get solved at home more than you know in the dean of students office not that I wouldn't inter intervene if needed to but um you know I I I don't a lot of the a lot of the conflict I see since I've taken over this position is within grade levels it's not 11th versus eth it's not 12th versus 9th it's not 10th versus 7th it's couple middle school kids getting in an argument over you know middle school stuff for the most part um so I haven't I haven't seen those those you know things those age Gap conflicts or problems or incidents arise and I I don't know if Dr Driscoll has anything that I missed but that's that's my sense of it the kids in the building I mean if you come to Spirit Week and you watch like the Friday Spirit day they divide it up into purple and white okay so when the seventh grade white is going against seventh grade purple everybody wearing white is cheering for the seventh grade white it's not well you're in seventh grade we're not cheering for you it's they are one they are people wearing white t-shirts whatever else they've done white hair and whatnot and the purple cheering for the purple um and even when uh the sixth grade came up last year um and miraculously defeated the staff in tug of war um the students were cheering for the sixth grade you know it was it was that sense of community because they knew they were coming up next and it was going to be their turn at some point and they remember being in seventh grade doing that and for the first time and how much you know fun that was and so there really is I think that sense of I just feel like the high schoolers don't seem to meddle with the with the middle schoolers that much you know they're they're there but they don't they don't go out of their way to have negative interactions with as far as I can tell you know whether that be in the hallways the locker rooms the cafeterias um the playing fields I don't know about bus incidents nothing's coming across my plate about that but went to DC last year we had that bigger grade span Than People planned on that was Middle School it was what 8th to 11th I think it was great it like was all the things you said like that the older kids were like guys seriously and we didn't have to get involved um so know that's just another example that that each SP I mean I think I think it's something special about Smith Academy that that's true um but it definitely has been fostered um this is one of the first things that the grade team talked about with middle school teams we knew that that was going to be probably one of the biggest questions is that's a large age gap between sixth grade and 12th grade um and the middle school team said they they have quite a few things in place as it is their classrooms are grouped together this meeting is being recorded oops um that there are you know middle school specific bathrooms there is typically people in the hall way during all those transition times um that are already in place that is helping the seventh grade with that transition um and that this would just be another reason to kind of invigorate some of those processes they put in place and making sure that they are um scheduled in regularly and contined Faithfully going forward any are are there other things things that have come up to Administration from outside folks that we have not discussed we've talked about Special Ed we've talked about sports we've talked about the schedule um we've talked about gaining a little more variety in the day less standing outside talking to each other that's hard to call Reus but it it is so um other things you want to highlight nothing I can think of top of my head um but if there are I would certainly the committee okay so with that I'm gonna move on uh the administrative reports have been submitted and writing in the interest of time unless there is a Committee Member out and thank you for joining I appreciate that um so we appreciate your your input aw um unless there's a Committee Member that has something that is urgent to discuss that's in one of those reports I'm going to move on um which leads us I am seeing no indication of anything okay um which leads me to the school Finance subcommittee report Mr Sullivan okay um so just catching up on where we stand with the current fiscal year um just a positive note is that our box and Aftercare programs are very very popular um and uh the revolving accounts there are um very healthy um and administration is looking for ways to use those funds to even further enhance those programs um to make them more appealing and more enriching to our students um our uh Food Services account is draining but um it's going to end the year with we think about $5,000 left in its revolving account um we started with 23,000 um and this just kind of goes to show the meals are free they're paid for by the state but that doesn't cover the whole cost of providing those meals um if we had more students getting them Dr J's mentioned it many times and it we would break even but we're not there um in previous years we've um not budgeted any additional funds into food services and then we kind of deficit spend it um and then replenish it at the end of the year um this kind of what the DPW does with some snow plowing snow removal services uh next year we're going to try to get ahead of that curve and we're going to just pre-budget 25,000 into that account um uh circuit breaker funds uh right now we're forecasting about a 20 to $25,000 deficit in that account uh which is an improvement from one of our previous meetings um uh with some uh additional payments coming in and uh some adjustments that might come down to about $8,000 uh we do have tuition coming in now for a new tuition in student in our step down program um so thank you to Molly for developing that program um we're still experiencing deficits in uh high school special education Transportation down about $144,000 there so all told we were looking at anywhere between 42,000 and 56,000 in deficit across the accounts um but we still have over $100,000 in unencumbered funds um so we're looking like we're going to have uh a balance remaining at the end of the year that we're hoping to roll over into our um school choice funds for the next fiscal year um we do have a couple of expenses coming up there's a $112,000 expense for upgrading walkie-talkies uh but thank you again this is probably the 14th or 15th time we thanked nurse genene this year uh for uh covering that with one of her grants um and then our upgraded phones um it was discussed previously we switched from regular phone service to viip um and then a glitch was discovered where if the power should fail we can't call 911 um so we need to address that fairly quickly um and Dr droll got an estimate of around $11,000 to address that uh and assuming that our fiscal picture for the rest of the year looks pretty good we'll get that done um by the end of fy2 24 not but if not there's a back if if not there's a back if not the the walkie talkies will um work in the emergency situation um looking ahead to fy2 uh we had been asked by Finance to um just demonstrate what a level Services budget would cost us what it would look like and a level Services budget would be about six and a half million in local Revenue required to fund um which would be a 9.4% increase over uh the current year um the budget that we're proposing is not a level service budget um it's a 2 and a half% increase or it's $6.1 million um in local funds um Staffing costs are the overwhelming bulk of uh what we're dealing with um we have a 2.6% contractual increase for next year um so that eats up most of what we're we're dealing with um for comparison Northampton is reporting level Services would be about a 14% increase um and they originally proposed an 8% increase and they just recently redid that for a 4% increase um so we are looking better than some of our friends and neighbors um preschool for next year is an interesting situation um so preschool needs about 22 full-time students to break even with our current model two teachers two classrooms two teachers two Paris um currently we have 18 applicants for next year seven of whom are local returns um local students coming back 10 our new local applicants one is a returning out of District student um so on average about 16 uh full-time students is what we're looking at um which doesn't cover the cost of that program as it's designed so uh when you factor out students who in the program who are not tuition paying we would have about $85,000 $85,500 in tuition versus over $170,000 in cost so it leaves us about 75 $5,000 short so we discussed options um to try to address that we could have um if you have one teacher and one parah or just two teachers and no Paras in one classroom you can have a Max of 20 students assuming you have no more than um five students with IEPs if you have six students with IEPs the max is 15 so as soon as you get there we we would it would trigger automatically needing a second classroom um students with needs students on IEPs they can enroll anytime throughout the year well typically we're getting you know anywhere up to three students during the year uh referred to our program who have to enroll in the middle of the year um and we currently have three students in the program for next year already needing services so we're at that cusp where if we got more than two we had a third student come into the program in next year we would automatically need a second classroom um or a student di an existing student diagn also correct yeah um so we had a conversation about how to address that if you wanted to just roll with it for with um two classrooms if you wanted to try to go ahead with 20 students in one classroom um that can be an open discussion that we have as a group um the application deadline was April 1st we did discuss should we extend that deadline to see if we can get more applicants reach out to families who are weight listed at other programs um there's options to try to grow the program but time is kind of running out why don't we stop and have a conversation okay so um this is what like we've had extensive conversations in and school Finance subcommittee over this over a period of many meetings as we sort of watched where all of this came in um it is very much at the cusp and there's a fairly good likelihood that we would if we only um set ourselves up with one preschool class room for next year there's a pretty good chance we'd be in the middle of the year and we'd need to start a second class so um so we've had conversations about not wanting to Budget on is it's not a particularly strong position the flip side of that is we will have to find offsets because I don't think we're looking at coming back in and recommending more than the two and a half% that we're gonna ask from town is an increase and I might add there is no guarantee that town finance and the select board will agree to a two and a half% and they're spend so that's that's where we are at this point we have not had that conversation with the select board we have started conversations with town finance um but this is the number of applications we've already accepted and where we are the number of put us right on that bu and so I think we're just checking in with you now because the full budget won't come back to you until May and this is going to be a spot that that is a a bigger challenge than it usually is um you know so we've talked about things like do we and it's it's a very black and white thing like do we go recruit hard do we go looking to help fill those spots because at this point every kid that comes in with tuition helps offset that um or if we don't if we're going to say we're going to try and roll with one classroom then obviously we don't want to go recruit any like we would not want to do that so this is a financial decision is a pretty substantial financial decision and so we we're bringing it up and giving you guys a chance to speak giving you guys a chance to speak and to hear from from Administration as well I mean Dr obviously has weighed in we've had a lot of previous conversations we had a lot of previous convers into preschool and I um previously we've had conversation about at which students can start wait and I can't remember at this point if that was spe to students on IEPs or that was for everyone but potentially would be looking at and then I think we changed it right to make it a start unless you come in with a plan and then you can come in that's I think it's 2.9 so the the the transition from early intervention can begin at 2.9 that's when the agencies like Criterion reach that work with the families ask the family if they'd like a referral to the their local preschool so that's when we get connected with the family but um students don't begin until their third birthday because that's when EI ends so up until the day before they can still be receiving reach Criterion services so on their third birthday if they're but we can meet on them we can prepare an IEP all that stuff starting at 2.9 but they wouldn't walk into our doors until their third birthday that's the only rolling criteria around the the three-year-old and for our um our general peer models um in our inclusive setting the new policy is three by uh the end of August good that work can change the policy but my thought was if we put it back for peer models be a little earlier than other preschools were probably typically accepting students does that create a draw for additional tuition prek students I think the question is there's a long-term way to get more kids in and then there's a shortterm need now so I don't I don't know if we changed our policy tomorrow which I mean obviously isn't feasible likely as it's not written um but even if we changed it tomorrow we would still need to go find those applicants because I mean I I I don't know what the Census Data is but I would be surprised if we got a lot of local kids in the 2.9 to3 like how many more kids just happen to be born in those couple of months probably not a lot of kids um and at this point they may have already found plans for next year and the the preschool teachers were a part of that conversation and they shared a lot of Developmental reasons why it made um you know it's really TR because and and again there's different preschools with different models we've talked about it with the preschool teachers in terms of splitting by age or splitting by developmental need and all of that we currently have mixed mixed age inclusive class and they're working um they're they very strong uh start to kindergarten this past year with the pyramid model we were doing some really nice things in our in our preschools um and to have you know a student who's 2.9 join with students who are almost five that doesn't require that level of Specialized Service to be able to compensate for a disability it it can add quite a difference to the classroom um so where the likelihood that that child's not toilet trained um there's just a lot to that and that was why uh the that that along with wanting the cycle to match up with kindergarten um because some students would be over and above prepared um by the time they left so uh you know that's that's why the students who transition from EI really get that extra half year part year usually and whatever that is um to to help mitigate that that need that they're having so when we redid the policy it wasn't a FIS it wasn't as much of a fiscal decision as a Developmental and and support of our millu decision I remember it well um but I think it's worth the conversation if it means we keep I think it's being addressed as a fiscal conversation now I get the reason for it um I personally still support that because I don't know that we would be able to get enough kids in to help make that difference make sense anyway um but I'm also of the mindset that we need to be thinking outside the box and how we my personal opinion and because we're in the middle of the community meeting I get to say this kind of stuff right we because we often don't we are careful um I I think it's it's too close I can't imagine not having two two classrooms because the idea of trying to figure out how to solve for that overnight when you know and to get great teachers and to get great esps to come maybe back to us or new to us mid year because somebody turned three that day like that to me is just that would be really challenging um and I would like to see us try and our best to support two classrooms and grow that said I don't feel like we have done everything we could to support growth of our preschool because we've been asking for a year to have after care at preschool and I absolutely believe that would make a difference in the number of preschool kids we would we would get in terms of how many days they would come and kids that just don't come to our program because there's they can't the families don't have the flexibility of picking their kid up at the end of the day at 2:30 so I wish I felt like we did more to make that program work because I don't think we would be sitting here on the cusp I think we would have had more kids applying for our preschool so I don't know that I know exactly where that money's going to come from I would feel better if we had more kids and we were really working hard to get more kids in so I clearly have feelings so I don't know Adam you can jump back in before we go back to the rest of the report though um one of five voices you're some of you are hearing this new and I appreciate that it's not something you have had a chance to to hear about or think through but do you have comments I would like to hear from Dr Driscoll I would like to hear from Melissa I like we're gonna have to make some hard choices before we bring the budget back in May this will be one of the driving forces so it's this is a good time to speak up if you to have impact I I understand the logic in opening up kind of a rolling enrollment to allow kids to come in as they turn three throughout the year like I get that I don't like doing it just from a fiscal perspective like like you know the program is is in a deficit for next year I don't like doing it for that if we weren't in that situation we wouldn't have done that and the direction the the information that Dr Berner had given us previously is that you know it's not good for the program to do it that way I know that there's there's probably students born in September October November who would their families would like to I had one family reach out this past year saying like hey why can't we roll in when my my I think was actually their grandkid um was as eligible as of like October and um like I get the you know the urge for parents to do that but it's been explained to us why we don't do that and I don't want to make a potentially bad decision out of a financial need and it's worth noting that while this is going to run it like it always runs at a deficit it doesn't run at this big of a deficit like that's the every time I have been around for us opening up a second room there it's it's never been a total Break Even situation since I've been on the committee it may have been passed but it hasn't the last several years it just wasn't this big a gap when we did run it as one classroom how many would we max out our capacity at like would we would we potentially Flex up to 20 or what would we stop at to give us extra capacity throughout the year so the 15 Mark at any given time but remember it's not number of students because we may have we've had different schedules we've had two days or three days or five days or half days so it's just at any given moment 15 students with and I don't know why the regs say it this way but they do six or seven students with disabilities can be in there instead of seven or less I don't know anyways um so that way that gives us that room so we we aim for 15 at any given time now there's that discussion that has happened before my time you were here for but related to the half day versus full day and full week and those kind of things so there I mean there is manipulation that could be done there um but that would you know if we needed to go to one but still wanted to offer something to everybody who's applied and I would add to that when there was one classroom um typically they would they would advocate for a cap of about 12 um for the for the reason of people coming becoming eligible through reach or through criteria yeah because we didn't specifically didn't want to be in a position where we U went over over 15 um in that classroom do we know what's the most what's the largest number of students with Services we've had in the program at one time I would have to run those numbers over the last couple years um it I most of the time each class has four or five um but I if you want exact numbers I can run those for you but if the if the cut off that triggers like this being a real problem is six can you at least say like we've had six when it was when we were doing um I think it was that it was the first year that it was full days that that we had some higher levels there um and and whether or not it's because we've had those half days and students have been able to have more time on learning we haven't had as many referrals um because early intervention Works um I'm I'm not sure but I do believe that first my first year three years ago um there was we were right up against it in at least one of the classrooms um because I actually think one of the days there was seven um you know whether it's you know the Tuesday Thursday whatever thing but that was when there were two classrooms so say you hit that number in one class and that still so we're looking at being right up on it with one and if that was already but it's been less each year like so you know and I and I'm not saying I don't have enough data to say it's because we've gone full days but I mean there there is something to that um that our systems and programming has has had a complete overhaul in the past three years and we we haven't had as high numbers of students with disabilities I will say um I don't think we've had as High um referrals out of EI either um and some of that was a covid piece where EI wasn't getting into students houses um and so we're I think we're now going to be over that Gap now um but I the p past couple years a lot of the EI transitions have been like this child's turning three next month and we tested them to weeks ago and here we are um because they weren't going to doctor's appointments or they weren't going so they weren't getting EI services so I'm hoping it'll normalize we did get um usually the EI providers try to give us as much of a heads up as possible as of right now Criterion says there's no students in Hatfield that are being referred through EI that they're aware of for next year but that doesn't include other EI providers so so we for preschool for many many years and there was a we had a that was split and some of the younger that were to preso they had never daycare setting a room with gr and there was a teacher and an ESP and we did that before it wasn't all in fact one of my kiddos and it was um ad decisions on finances changing that admission age where of took advice and re to keep it at affected by it when it changed are not affect turn here but one of the things that Connor and I have had a conversation with Julie lanaville about because we didn't have anybody who was interested neither one of our Preschool teachers or the esps were interested in being one of the Aftercare people or coordinator for a preschool program but Julie is open she's not thrilled but she is open to the idea of that so if we felt like were on the cusp and we really TR needed to try to see if we could recruit families to be part of our preschool I think it's possible to be able to say we could offer preschool after care for the 2425 school year let's try make I've heard from parents I've seen public commentary from parents who are interested in our preschool and are actively out there going well we might come to preschool there but are there families who will go in with us to find after care like they're trying to solve the problem and it's like if they can come up with someone to hire then surely we could do um my deep appreciation to miss lanaville if she's willing to help coordinate that I think we would need to get aggressive about like this to me sort of like starts putting the plan together for aggressively going out and saying we still have slots open and by the way we have you covered until 5:30 or whatever the time is and and potentially going back out to families who have already signed up to say would this change your plan maybe you wanted three days would you want five like would this shift things for you trying not to look at any particular parent as I ask that question um so I I I hear multiple people saying let's not change our policy for financial reasons I'm nodding along I'm also appreciative for all all the things raised because we've got to we've got to find every possible solution um I think the the idea and the opportunity of a blended preschool K I will be really curious to hear administrative or your thoughts on that because it's about to impact the next conversation as we get to about what's going to go on for kindergarten because that conversation is like literally next on the agenda so other thoughts about two preschools one preschool um the the only thing that H Hatfield hasn't explored um I've not done it before in a previous District I'm not sure exactly what it entails but um I I do know that we've had about one per year um of folks that have um shared that the cost of preschool is is cumbersome for their family um I do know at the same time that our cost is much less than daycare um but uh oftentimes uh families are faced with uh a parent staying home um or uh or being able to do that um so uh some districts do look at creating a sliding scale system um uh and I I know that there's uh some agencies that can accept vouchers um it's not something that I know much about or would know who to connect with about that um again I've only heard from a couple families and they've been able to access Head Start which is what what we do um refer them to um so those students haven't gone without they they've found programming um it's just something that we don't have in place wanted to mention it I think that's worth looking at we did take prices up we're we're still low for preschool prices so we're a lot cheaper than daycare we're still cheaper than most preschools around but it parents staying home are a grandpar but like that's obviously not something we can compete with on a price um looking at sliding scales I think is something we could take up and finance looking at voucher programs and voucher programs and seeing like what other subsidies we could help families and help educate families so that they saw us as an alternative that might be standard paperwork that went out when you apply like Seven Hills would do it if we were accepting how do we so we would need to do something some sort of a policy change at least temporarily just to even accept applications at this point for next year correct we said the deadline well I guess there is a deadline so we would need to look at that we could wave the deadline we could yeah for the current times not for the entire policy so we could make a we are bring the policy back because we are changing the deadlines but we could make a motion tonight to extend the deadline and just move that date for this year if we wanted to accept more students does our current sorry just refresh my memory does our current policy allow for Rolling admissions assuming they they would be otherwise qualified so assuming they're three by September 1st August 31st does does it allow for Rolling emissions anyway so yeah like if there's a Hatfield resident who is a who's four years old and something changed in their world in November then there there's protocol in the p in the policy about that we really need to make sure let's go back and read it and maybe we need to read it before we leave tonight because it we could put it on the boook um and it's something handy we need to make sure we can take outside residents not just Hatfield residents in that circumstance like between now and when school starts not talking about necessarily rolling admission but taking applications through the end of August and we're already kind of locked into taking any applicants in priority groups one through five we would have at this point we would have to take any Resident that applied yes because we have granted an outside Hatfield application so opening up applications extending the deadline will I don't know how everyone feels about one or two classrooms at this point but that process basically locks us into two there's there's no turning back on that because if we any applicant will just make the burden worse so like we're locking it too if we want to go recruit then we need to know where committed to two but two might be a combo still so that might I'm going to suggest unless Dr Driscoll has something he wants to add to this that we'll we may loop back to this conversation after we talk about school choice openings because it might be relevant in that context too anything else no okay Adam do you want to go back and finish your last yeah um me just scroll down here um so we discussed school choice at the time we had 31 applications I emailed Dr joll this morning they're 33 now he's nodding 33 um so the numbers I put on your screen are probably not quite accurate there's two more uncounted for but we had for kindergarten for next year at the time nine applicants um and then four for first grade okay um uh and then Less in and generally in subsequent grades but um kindergarten and first grade for next year is the the big uh the big numbers um the catch is kindergarten where we are currently forecast to have 15 students next year if we did not accept any additional Choice students so there was the difficult conversation of do we or should we at least consider reducing to one kindergarten next year because we run into the we run into the Dilemma of Are We Fielding a classroom just to support school choice students which is not what school choice was designed to do and it's it's a loss at that point financially it's it's a gain in that you're getting long-term hopefully commitment into the district um but it's a financial loss to kindergarten to run two classrooms it's it's close it's if it's so that's the next conversation for the group is do we have a discussion of one or two kindergarten classrooms so I would I'd like to just take at this point let's talk about school choice let's not make it just a kindergarten conversation to kick off I think we're probably going to have to come back to the kindergarten conversation um before we get there I just want to close out are there questions related to the school Finance update anything you'd like to add okay so let's shifting to our school choice forecast we have sort of what the predicted enrollment is what the in town enrollment where we currently are with school choice with the percentages the recommended size and the number of slots that Administration is recommending that we open and the recommended size per classroom per section which comes from the school council recommendations and a note on how many applicants we currently have and those numbers seem to be changing by the day so Dr Driscoll would you like to yeah I mean I think the only um is all then um sort of talked about the the kindergarten question there um so that's you know the the um the recommended school choice slots that you see in that kind of bold column there um that's based on the the two classes um the only the only place I'd like to highlight is first grade um So currently first grade's a um a a fairly big class um right now there's 33 students in it recommended size is 34 um which is one one school choice slot um that's open we currently have four applicants um in for for fourth grade first grade so that would you know if we went with the uh the one if we open one slot that would force us uh into a lottery for those um those applicants every other every other place we have um we have fewer applications currently than the recommended recommended slots which would mean no no Lottery would be necessary mute I'm I'm giving everybody a little bit of a moment to digest because this isn't something that anybody saw before the meeting um so you know also while we have I'm thrilled to have 33 applications and still more coming in we also know um even though we're going to look at some policy in a minute about getting people to commit um we won't necessarily get everyone that applies so we can accept people and they may have a different path so um we do need to vote this evening um on a number per class is one of the things we we need to do so questions comments thoughts how many students can we add to kindergarten and still maintain still and consider maintaining one classroom just just to clarify on that we have 12 residents and we have an anticipated three Choice students because they're already outside neighbors that to that pay tuition for preschool so they go in like right now we have 12 and my question is in the current nine applications is that including the three that we're counting because we know they want to stay with us because they're in our preschool don't believe I'm not I'm not sure that but I don't believe do we know if the three we have listed on the page that are moving up that are anticipated to move up from preschool do we know if they've put in applications for school choice yeah okay I know he sent letters home to all of those families PRI rep only if they get priority if they have an older sibling right but otherwise it's they're starting from scratch it's okay so there so there to get to the 15 we would have at least three slots that would correct I misreading that okay so even if we were at one classroom with 15 kids there are three openings yes okay but we think that on top of those three there's potentially nine additional kids okay so we're sorry not to hit this again so of the nine applications for kindergarten we are assuming none of them are the three already in preschool I I don't believe that they are but I'm not sure I would have to check on that I believe the the current applications that we have are for new students but I'm not sure if that excludes students who are currently in preschool because that's not part of the um part of the school choice process generally speaking do outof District students in our preschool program come up or is it kind of a mixed bag generally generally generally speaking they do stay um there are occasions when we've had um a student move to heartsbrook or some other school generally speaking a majority stay with us past conversations one of the reasons we've tried to have two preschools is so that we had a really good feeder system going into kindergarten and we had such a strong preschool program that that that really worked in our favor um one of my concerns in cutting down to one kindergarten is what that means if we see a little bit of attrition over time um what then happens is we're going like that class would always be small and it would be sort of the I don't know we've talked about the snake that eats something but this is sort of the inverse of that right there's there would just always be this contraction going through the building um with that small class because it we'd never if we don't do it here it's like when would we ever add that like we would always be in the position of never adding that that class back they would never have a second classroom um we have had a lot of kids come into that come into kindergarten this year that's why there's it's such a big first grade class next year so um some of those moved in others once Choice reopened they came in um and I feel like of all grades that that may be a thing for Garten families is you know because first grade is compulsory so there's still families who haven't quite decided whether they want their child to go to kindergarten um and so I think we we've had some of those families join us mid year um so it's just a very unique grade level because it is not it's not compulsory so there are people who are still thinking sorry I'm just to answering a question I'm monitoring the chat and it's open for things like we can't hear you you're on mute but we can't actually have conversation in a open meeting that like so while helpful comments have come up they've been deleted not because they're not helpful but because we can't have conversations going on the chat so just so you know I appreciate the support that's why they're gone so if those three current preschoolers that are out of District or choice you call them haven't yet filled out an application and we already have nine applications that would mean 12 applications if they apply which would support two classrooms yeah would 864 it's get you there wouldn't get you there with someone who's been teaching for 30 years but it would get you there with someone Masters 15 and 12 is and potentially more could join the other possib the other possibility being if we explored a kindergarten preschool class that might solve two two birds in one stone I don't know what the number I haven't looked at the numbers for that similar to how we fielded family input on potentially moving grade six up do we have to address any parent concerns about having their preschoolers in a group we like know it's not not a huge age disparity but like hey I signed up for preschool now my kids in kindergarten we have done it and we've done it in the last five years so it's not it it doesn't it's not unprecedented in the way that moving sixth grade would be so much more dramatic um and it's still somewhat separate within the classroom of some of the things that they're doing it's not totally and it would be I don't think I don't think we're deciding that tonight although how we vote on what we open would have some implications Administration do you guys want to speak on this good cross grading has has has come up or combined grading has come up in previous discussions for a few years um in a in a response to the midst of covid in my previous District um we did it as well there's definitely pros and cons there is professional development um that needs to be done um to support that um the uh the biggest parent question is always so what grade does my kid go to next year um and so uh we would need to have a process where we where where it's planful and mindful um but also some you know we we want to avoid any of the feeling like a child's been accelerated or has been held back in some way or um it's it is tricky and and I would if we were to do something like that I I personally would advocate for the partnership with the the school council and the classroom teacher it would be a conversation to be more planful I I am aware that it it definitely happened uh covid here because I when I came on board we were coming out of that model um and but that was sort of at least at that moment was sort of an emergent kind of need that was was happening um and I'm not sure about the history beyond that um but I do know both our Preschool teachers are are new since since myself um you know they so they definitely weren't part of that here so we' want to pull folks back together and our preschool model it looks vastly different than it did um you know a number of years back as well so um it I'd want to be planful about it that's all um I I think any of us are willing to do anything but want to make sure we include all the voices we're certainly not the only District facing hard conversations about shifting down to one room per grade in various places I know you know sunderland's taken that on lately I think lit like kind of everyone around us is in that boat that's just where we are both in terms of po ation size and budgets that that's one of the tougher things going so let's see if we can drive some consensus on the easy stuff for a minute so let's look at um raids 9 through2 on Choice enrollment the recommended slots to open for 9th grade grade um would be 20 not to say that we'll have 20 but that we could take as many as 20 that we could take as many as 23 and 10th 19 and 11th and 21 in 12th we do currently have applications for 9th 11th and 12th and always excited to um open for more any conversation any any concern about those recommendations anything you'd want to change okay so let's take the existing Middle School 7th and eth we have a recommended number of slots is 21 for 7th and 8 for 8th we have three current applicants for each so that would move the current 8th grade is anticipated to be 32 that would move that up any concerns about those recommended opening numbers no okay um the recommended number of slots for sixth grade the predicted enrollment listed on the sheet is 33 the recommended number of slots is only three we currently have four applications I will say I have heard a great deal about this particular class and its likelihood to have attrition as it moves um so I don't we every year we hear about students and attrition moving from 6th to 7th every year it's it's going to be the close of Smith Academy it is yet to be the case um so I'm not not denying the concern but also managing that with what we're hearing I ask a question if you want me to wa nope ask um seventh and eighth grade recommended size is 40 which would allow for two 20 in sections right is their middle school if we move sixth grade would the recommended size change from the elementary size of 36 question to a larger an out or not um we moveed then six considered middle school and it also match the seventh and eth grade class sizes yeah I think I think it I think it could I think there are um reasons to to keep it slightly smaller if possible you know if it becomes a transition year um that being said I mean if we have if we're talking about um you recommended three slots and four openings are um three openings and four applicants I don't I don't think it would probably make sense to give every applicant a spot so we don't have to exclude one you know one family I mean if the Middle School model is set up that their class sizes as they have all their all their different classes could take that amount why not accept it yeah so other thoughts about sixth grade personally would bump it to fall live but yeah just because it would leave room for someone else that might want to come in even if it was at hes but I'm happy to keep your recommendation if you feel strongly about the three or to take it at four but just anyone else when we're pushing up against the max recommended capacity of a classroom should we give consideration just like we do for other you know for Like Preschool like what if we have two like in first grade we had two residents moveing this year which would you know so if we if we maxed out that classroom um the the sixth grade and then we have two more kids mov in this year so then we're asking even more of our teaching staff difference is regulation though the only one the only grade that's actually regulated for number of size is preschool I get that but we also we have these numbers that were designed you with school council and teacher input and family input and um does it should we be in any way cautious about you know through Choice pushing it up to the max with the risk of going Beyond I'm looking at the fact that that grade currently has one of the lowest Choice percentages out of the district second lowest and we we're not bumping up a lot with Choice kids we just as we're likely to lose some one of the things I've looked at over the history in our data is grades that have a bigger number of kids going in to ninth grade that class tends to hold tight a little better than really small groups to begin with and so having a few extra Choice kid like and we're looking at 18 kids in sixth grade versus 20 kids in sixth grade that like I'm with you on the spirit of your question I'm just not sure that the difference between 18 kids in a sixth grade class and 21 kids is going to change what that class Dynamic looks like and I get that it would in a Kindergarten class I'm looking at people who've taught middle school and just sort of like and I'm not saying this is the way I feel I'm just kind of Playing devil's advocate like you know should we be and I'm not without heart for sixth grade teachers having bigger classrooms just that you could manage them if we took the four and then next year we don't have to open it for any slots unless there's a number that didn't commit to coming I mean it's a yearby year thing you have to have one in each CL in each grade each year right if we open so if we opened it to every grade which we did we have to open at least one slot and so this is the point at which we say yep we're going to have X number of slots some of these we're going to open and maybe they don't get filled and if we continue a rolling admission that sets the number of the Rolling admission would limit us to so that we don't we don't take too many going down the road I think what Adam is asking though is that when we take the to participate we say that we would take at least grade yes could we say we would take at least one in each grade except for grade blank we could have but that vote happened previously but if we took the four now next year we could zero we could say zero next year we don't have to continue accepting one more every year unless we felt the numbers needed support okay so we're still at an open conversation on Sixth I'm not hearing a consensus per se Jen do you have feelings thoughts not really um do we have a process in place for like a weight L because we're we're talking about one I mean my gut is probably saying that even if we don't change that number we're probably going to be okay because this is right this is applications not necessarily commitments right but we would but applications that with we we could say they all get in they may not all come but if we put it to a lottery and we have four and three of them get in and then two of those don't show that weight list one might still be around might have gone and found something else to do so I think that's where I'm leaning to T say yes to more of them because we probably won't see them all and then we stand a good chance of filling those three slots my concern is if we Lottery somebody in that situation we we may have two instead of three and we've had at least one attrition going six to seven um usually more than that so and if we say we'll take five in that class for next year and you know seven students leave that number still stays at five right it doesn't automatically go well now we have capacity for 12 more true because we set a limit to the number of choice seats we would take in it's a weird glitch yeah it is and one we could address but we have not yet but we we do address it at this point of the year at this stage it just doesn't get addressed on a rolling basis unless we change our policy does that make sense I think that I think we all understand that the same way does anybody want to make a recommendation we're going to put it to a vote as a collective thing but I want to make some as we go is there a recommendation for the number of slots for sixth grade it's currently listed at three would we like to make a change I would like to change to four okay any conversation about that it'll come back up as a vote collectively but like okay fifth is slotted recommended for nine we have two applicants fourth is recommended for nine we have one applicant third is recommended for 11 we have one applicant second is recommended for 10 we have two applicants any conversation second through 5th okay we get to first grade the recommended slot is one we have four applicants the recommended classroom size is 17 if we were to take all four of those that would potentially again they may not all come that would potentially bump those rooms to 18 and 19 assuming no one moves out of town or moves into town as well so if we leave it at one that goes to a lottery and a waight list anyone want to Advocate one way or the other including Administration if you have a different thought well G grow to those four current applicants and try to get them it's not yes small classes are are absolutely I know for a teacher however sometimes that's actually at the of um social so sometimes having a little bit more students actually than it is having smaller I would even though is an incredibly important rather again and it might be 18 or 19 and it might be 17 right and if somebody moves in they might be 20 so there's there is a gamble to that committee I agree with Melissa okay Jen and Adam if we're so I if we're so eager to just kind of ignore the work that was put into making the recommended sizes through school counsel and everything it I'm stumbling but it kind it's kind of like why do we have the recommendation if we're just willing to go beyond it anyway I see it as a Target and not a rule so this meeting and part of that for me is the fact that history has shed us we won't get them all and so it's it's trying to make sure that we keep those grades at the Target and not under the Target and so I you know if we don't accept them all in the lottery the odds are we might not get any and and then we've lost that kid not for one year but probably permanently so it's not about just blowing through the the recommendation it's just trying to actually hit it and my theory is we won't get them all because last year we had 40 applicants and we got eight students and that's the more likely reality that we're dealing with than having a bunch of kids move to town because I I don't know where I mean we're thrilled with the number of new kids we got this year but that has not been our local norm and your mom only had one house to sell we'd like her to sell again if she could just do that every year I think that I'm sorry oh so I'm on my third one some something that I'm struggling a little bit with is is back to the conversations about space at the elementary school and it already kind of being busting at the scenes and that was listed as a reason to one of the many benefits of moving six to Smith Academy and so there's there's a lot of kind of things up in the air right too because then moving potentially moving sixth to Smith Academy is now looking at how how are we may be juggling resources between the elementary school and Smith Academy so it's I can't even say in looking at this now that I formed a super solid opinion but I also don't want to now go past these recommended numbers with kind of all these variables kind of up in the air and um and and just to play Devil's Advocate like overcommit on this side and then be like oh no now we have all the students where do we put them and how do we make sure that everyone's still getting what they need is is just what I keep thinking about when I'm as we're going through each of these grades and classes so this is something we we should clarify because my understanding of the space issues is that adding adding even if we added every applicant that showed up wouldn't necessarily impact the space issue because it's not a space issue in the classroom it's a space issue with those that provide pullout Services who are they just need more space now I get if you're saying are we adding a bunch of kids who need like there will whenever we add kids we're going to proportionately add kids who need Services that's part of the game be they our kids or Choice kids or any other and that's we and I think some families need to understand that that's always the case and we welcome all students and and there is no choosing at Choice it's you get who you get and if it's a lottery it's a lottery and and if the kid needs Services they do they don't tend to come in needing more services than our kids going out so that's that's not a thing um but I Melissa helped clarify but my understanding of the space issue that this is not something that would impact that negatively or POS positively is that accurate had reading intervention Shar one space thing that folks should remember is that it is the sort of the following year but we do school I I put in for school choice claiming for every single school choice student who receives services so there's the base and then we receive additional funding depending on whatever their service is so any need in that way ultimately does become offset um it it's just the year after um and and financially T is a net plus to us in that it usually allows us to have IND District staff as opposed to ad hoc staff which is considerably more expensive um so does that help with your space considerations and concerns or a little bit a little bit um I I would Advocate taking all for applicants for first grade knowing that there's the possibility that that would put us a kid over maybe two at the like but the likelihood is that we would be hitting the classroom Target so this this may be a 22 in which case we're going to have to come up with a plan um Adam I may be in I may be intuiting Mr Sullivan's position on that Jen what about you on first grade on on first grade um I think opening one more I think that that's fine okay so she say one more or she said it was okay with the four because it doesn't it bumps each classroom up a little it doesn't bump up okay so we're going well we have consensus 1 through 12 I think right um so let's have the hard kindergarten conversation so I believe there are 12 residents and there I I've I have seen some outside communication that suggests that we might not have three from preschool moving up we might only have one known out of District for sure which means that we might looking at 10 applications instead of 12 um but it's in that ballpark and we're going to have a financial conversation in the next month About Preschool and if one of the possibilities would be that is but that's a much bigger conversation and I and I hear Dr Brier's wise Council about that having a a lot of tentacles to manage so let's talk about kindergarten we have a predicted enrollment that's in the 15 ballpark we have nine current applicants the recommended number of slots is 15 this is the one grade where we're more likely to see more kids come like it's easier to move in kindergarten than any other time it's easier to recruit in for kindergarten than any other time and the balance of that is we've been pretty consistent in saying that we aren't creating additional classrooms solely for the purpose of school choice for the purpose of tonight could we stick with one slot which we that previously said we were going to have at least one for each grade but the have a better picture next month but that leaves everybody hanging that's right I'm trying to think of a way that I mean those people could be on a waiting list but we at the point we put them on the waiting list I want to ask both principles what is your gut say if we put them on a waiting list what's going to happen to those nine applicants I think we lose but I feel like our conversation isn't about the number of slots it's about whether we have two classrooms and so we're we're the current FY 25 budget budgets for two classrooms in kindergarten she said oh she said the current budget forecast or current budget for next year is budgeting with two kindergarten classrooms in mind that's the current plan y I think if we I'm fairly certain if we choose to to Kick the Can we will be making a decision um just because families are not going to wait right one of those not making a choice is a choice well so currently we have nine applications you know I think the the idea that was brought up earlier about um the possibility of having a combined preschool kindergarten is an interesting idea if we if we don't o vote to open school choice for a second class in kinderg I think it takes that effectively off the table um so I think that would you know I I think opening it would allow for that conversation to continue um I think it's worth considering I right now the recommended slot is 15 um I think it's worth considering if we want to pursue that conversation to maybe limit the number of slots to the number of applicant that we have um to possibly preserve space to make to make that shift if we decided to go that route um but I think you know I think history has shown that when you know if we can get students being young they they'll they stay through um and if there is a level of attrition that that kind of tracks 15 is a small class to have and um I think we're I think we're setting ourselves up for this conversation yearly at this point too if um you if we say we're we're limited to to 15 to one class I mean yes we we off we expand as we go up a bit but um you know I think we're we're talking about limiting to one class as we to get it up through and I think there's been conversations in the past that have um inform the decision to have you know to to try to have two two classes for grade so we've had some conversations in the past looking at if we didn't have two classrooms per grade level that then we're looking at if people think moving sixth grade up to a middle school program is avangard like some of the conversations about how do you manage if there's only one classroom per grade we're like starting to look at like you want to have some mixed grade classrooms and some other things that there's good research that supports doing that but we have dynamics that situations where I don't think we want to I I just think about like if every kid is in the same classroom every year with the same group like that is a challenging situation to manage I think there's so much upside and having the ability to kind of reshift every year so that kids are with different kids um why I choiced my kid to Hatfield because we're from a district with one class so for me Happ feels big we're also looking at neighboring districts who are making a considered effort to have to shrink the number of their classrooms which if we have two is a nice competitive Advantage we might be able to pick up more school choice kids because of that um I worry if we start in kindergarten that small what happens like it's just what happens when they're seventh grade like how many like that's a seventh grade class of nine what I worry when we don't leave room for them to grow and if we don't grow it at the get-go there won't be any place to grow it as they go through it's sort of like we we make a decision now that cohort is stuck together all the way through was the last notbook class and there only 19 that class the most they ever had was 21 and they were all together one and that's the class that everybody's saying we're gonna lose them all like they the the the concern is high with them and I think part of it is because they've been so small whereas last year's the current seventh graders is a sizable cohort and they came up and they St like we didn't what we lose one kid or something it was phenomenal like they were a bigger group and we kept them I mean I don't have a crystal ball but I think it's I'm I worry that if we if we cap them that tight that just sort of determines what that is I like what Connor said about sticking with the nine so that we can continue to have conversations and if we kept the nine we could open it to more if things changed if we don't take the nine we're not likely to get back to that I mean is there really a difference between saying 9 and 15 at this point if you say nine you're we're we're leaning into okay we're going to have two kindergarten classrooms so then why not use the capacity except that it preserves the possibility of a split preschool okay but we could sort that out in the next month and then determine whether it was stated at nine or went up to 15 what is the smallest class size most recently that we've had because I'm thinking if we have there's 12 um there's 12 in town kids we have nine applications and that's great but let's say that we don't that we make the decision to keep two classrooms but then we end up with you know 15 kids or 14 you know like now we've committed to now two two classrooms that are going to have you know what six each seven each like how how small is re like how small have we gone in one classroom I don't think this is a sorry I was muted I don't think this is a commitment um necessarily to you know if we only have 12 kids dividing and half for for each I think this is a commitment to the possibility of um of filling slots to a point where we can sustain two classrooms um you know that in in the event that we only had 15 kids um or you know 12 kids that that would be a conversation we would we would need to have um going forward thinking about okay you know here's here's what the Hope was here's what the reality is and um you know this is what what makes sense to do um but I think I think if we if we don't allow applicants to do that we we we we guarantee that's the conversation we have to have um but if we are you know if we we do open to school choice we it I I think it gives us a little more um little more flexibility into how how we're able to utilize folks that's a helpful point we not necessar I mean we can open it and there could be a classroom of 18 so we could open it up to 9 or even 15 if we end up with 17 total we still have the conversation this summer or whenever because odds are we don't get all of them I don't and I know we tend to get more in the lower grades anyway I don't remember what our applications for kindergarten were last year versus 13 applications we get there's currently 10 and first grade forecast 10 for next year in first grade so 10 we added a couple this year I think that some have come in so we didn't so maybe we got about half maybe a little more than half so if we're really at 12 and we only got half we're up to one classroom but it it's a full class but it's it's still a like it's another difficult conversation but truthfully I'd rather have that conversation than than just not give the possibility that we might have a robust group of 30 by what's the number where we run the risk of being in the preschool situation in kindergarten where we have like one more than we're comfortable with one teacher teaching I mean it's not it's not a it's a legitimate concern right um can I point out that on our agenda we're discussing the school choice policy and I don't know if you really had a chance to review it but within the recommendation that we're going to vote on for tonight is that accept applicants who are accepted whether have to notify us accept or not that whether they're going to accept or not and so we're not hanging forever they have to commit they don't commit with and if they don't commit time frame they go waiting list so that might help us in May in may we don't have to wait till the Summers we don't have to wait more about our numbers know more about our numbers a deadline here of when people need to commit we're gonna have a deadline so we can prepare proper budget for okay I like that we're we're doing that and that's going to be part of the policy can we is it fair is it fair to do that to people who've applied for Choice next year because they've I don't know what what they know as of a deadline when they applied you know if they applied in March or in February to be Choice next year what was their implication at that point that they have to make a decision and then all of a sudden we're like and now you have only four more weeks or June June 1st or whatever the date's going to be in the policy 10 business days from the application from okay but part of that communication hasn't happened because the acceptance like so the the opportunity for that to be really clear still exists because that would naturally go out with a hey you you've got through you've been accepted here's what happens next um and if we don't hear back you're still on the wait list like there's they don't get dropped completely but we have a lottery situation that sort of shifts them it's possible we might not have any lotteries coming out of tonight um so and I would add that I think it I I think it is fair I think it's also changed in the past I think in the past if folks had applied to multiple schools for school choice and they got at their acceptance um and they enrolled we never told them hey you need to tell us one way or the other um and so there was no provision for you know there was no real reason for them to say oh you know thanks but but no thanks um and there's no provision for us to know one way or the other um wh which way they're ahead so this I and I think folks probably make that decision pretty quickly upon hearing um and so I think this gives them a chance it gives them a chance to weigh it um and it also lets us know sort what T what we can anticipate too and so we will hopefully get to that soon this is a record late school committee meeting I I thank you for all hanging in there and I'm I feel the absence of Miss pinch who would be letting us do thank you it thank you for coming um so thoughts about kindergarten h we could say we could say yes to a large number and not necessarily be adding classrooms we I think even if we did add class rooms there are some elements of this that it solves some of the challenges that families are are very vocal about right now and the minute we don't give ourselves some flexibility of moving kids in into different cohorts that just becomes so much harder like it's the kind of thing I start I worry that we going to end up losing families if we start to shrink in this way not just because it's saying that we're small it's it's going to create issues that we're currently managing with in part to some degree because we have some flexibility and the only way we're going to get that flexibility is to have more dramatic changes like split grade classrooms and it kindergarten and preschool that split grade classroom is one thing it as you go up the chain I think that would be a more more dramatic change both for families and for staff and was like take my computer I don't know I I I I'm very much on the fence um it's growing enrollment I think this is probably you know this is where this was our goal this is where you would grow enrollment but but looking at essentially having um an entire classroom just I I don't I don't on fense I'm gonna unmute so you can speak but you have a camera okay well I'm on my third Chromebook now this one is working [Music] um well I I've already said that I I liked Connor's suggestion of at least accepting the nine you Adam pointed out nine or 15 you know but I support our growing enrollment and I would at least accept the nine Adam I mean I'm just I'm yeah I think Jen and I are sharing a similar mind at the moment just I I I completely appreciate and understand the benefits of having two classrooms per grade gives you know if there's personalities that it Mak it gives flexibility if um whether it be interest student or teacher and student there's options um and or even just breaks you know you're mixing with these eight kids year after year it's nice to just have a different cohort I'm I'm stumbling financially with the idea though of because if if we have only 12 residents and I'm I'm assuming we're fairly confident in that number it is completely opening up another classroom for non-residents I mean it'll be mixed so you know we least in all likelihood it would be you know six and six plus but it's opening capacity that we don't need to meet the needs of our town to to meet to meet to meet the the needs of our town at a bare minimum level but if we have 10 kids it becomes a revenue neutral thing and probably wouldn't even need 10 kids when you do the math on what that brings in intuition we're going to get that back plus the upside of some of that money is going to offset some of our special education costs plus that's going to keep our staff intact plus that's going to keep flexibility and more kids in so that you have a better mix for reading groups and math groups like it's not just it's not just the switching out of cohorts and personalities it's any you honestly better chance of your kid having a per their person right I mean that's one of the challenges with all small schools is kids finding a group that they identify with and I'm i i a little more concerned that it's the Optics of adding the room more than it is the actual impact to to tax dollars because of the revenue um it's not 100% Optics but because we've said we won't be like that's that we're not that it's incremental this is the first conversation I've sat in where it it isn't purely incremental gets cost neutral but not incremental cost neutral if we get provided we get sure there there is a nonzero chance that this is that's true that's fair but if we don't go for it we definitely won't and I didn't come in with my mind made up on this either possible to table this for a moment while we continue on with other things we C I would entertain a motion to table it but we have to come back to this tonight we we will vote on it tonight but to everybody would you like to make a motion I will make a motion to table this for the time being to revisit later this evening is there a second I'll all in favor I I okay so with that this is our longest night ever do we need to take a moment does anybody need just like to stand up and stretch and move for a minute or take a bi break I might just need to F home very very late so um yeah I'm way past what I said I'd be so um with that tabled there are three policy things on our agenda I'm going to suggest that we table B andc given the late hour one wouldn't have to have a vote until next month one is a first reading one we need to vote on tonight do you have a different different thought on that different thought on that we we really like some feedback especially on the cell phone one of if we're headed in the right direction or not um I'm gonna but there's definitely I mean the first one is is all right let me back up here so the first policy is jfbb school choice but you'll notice the second one is also jfbb school choice we are presenting two because one would be effective just for fiscal year 24 which is the first one and the second one uh has considerable changes that would be taking effect fiscal year 25 and Beyond so that one does not need to be voted on tonight although we would hope to vote on it in May um I suppose it could wait till June but um it would be better to have it voted on in May because it's going to impact the next school year and it could have budget implications probably so but so but the first one has implications to how we admit currently and solving a problem we've had historically so you should see you should see the changes that we've made and the dates that we adjusted that was the main thing was adjusting what um just something I I just noticed as I was opening the they're reversed yeah oh so the Link in the agenda l in the agenda has been transed link the I'm sorry so the first one I'm sorry so the first one that we need to vote on tonight is uh the shorter one it's one page whereas the other one goes longer the it starts with number one by April 1st of every school year that is the one that we're discussing tonight so we have basically some dates that have changed in the first three bullets of changing the timeline I can see that you're reading that um we need to make an amendment in bullet point six that it would be 10 business days to commit to attending Public Schools yes that was corrected at one point so this would be the policy for all so Kathy am I correct that what this does is really it's just shifting the acceptance window up as tight as we can to today because our district is chronologically behind some of the others in making their and last year we think that's one of the reasons we didn't see all the applicants right our our window was so late and adding the the commitment piece so that we can better plan do we know if that's typical at other districts uh I haven't seen if it's typical or not um but I do are there questions so within five days so within five days of the yeah will be known if they if they got accepted and then they have 10 business days from that point of notification to commit or not and if they don't we have if they don't Decline and we don't have any response they'll just get added to the wait list if they decline then they're off the waight list and come back weeks later there's still room if there's still room yes if there's still room yes it's only if there was a it's only there was a wait list that they would the spot for somebody else to accept which hasn't been the case for us but this is just help ensure that we can accept those to help ensure that we can accept those that are ready to come the April 1 thing and and line one just by April 1 of every school year the administration will determine the number of spaces available that's just like Dr dris saying we have this much capacity that's not we have voted okay and what you're looking at and what you're looking just for is truly just for right now end of this through the end of this school year because the other one take over after that you want I don't want to confuse Everybody by men I don't want to confuse Everybody by mentioning what the differences are but the difference with the their policy is that we've moved the timeline even up further into December in DEC in December the administration will look at the number of spot look at the number of spots that are available so we're going to start whole process a little bit earlier and have a lottery in February so that so that we can better budget budget and plan with the caveat of even if they commit they can still not commit right we plan on it but they can still just not come and while we have had R enrollments rolling enrollments rolling enrollments would be paused I don't want to get that wrong with the window it's like that window right between December 15th and March 15 rolling and rollment would be paused because that's the time of applications and the lottery so so Comm the Integrity of of the lottery of the admission process and the lot it would ensure that we don't decide on a certain number of spots based on what we're anticipating and then get a slew applications for the rolling admission in January when we've already decided to open yeah stopping rolling enrollment at December 15th between December 15th and March 15 for for the admissions process but that's the second policy that we're gonna we don't have to vote on tonight I'm PA after you've gone through the lottery system because you know you still had but all practicality so there is the one amendment to Bullet six where it said Smith Academy it should say hille Public Schools just moving our windows up at and and what this effectively does is lets the school choice decision it lets that become effective starting tomorrow they can go start calling families with this vote so how do we make a motion on this is it jfbb is it jfbb fy4 let's let's refer to this as jfb 2324 234 so I would love a motion I will make a motion to accept policy jfbb fy4 as presented with the change from Smith Academy toille Public Schools okay is there a second a second is there a any further discussion all in favor I any opposed I or no woohoo now you have so I'm I'm gonna make a decision here um you have the other policy in front of you you have time to process this the vote on this won't change anything over the next month I don't believe right so please give it some thoughts because it's a little more complicated and let's come back and talk about that more in May do any of you have comments on the cell phone policy that you want talk about tonight I I will confess I could use more time with it well we just wanted to get well we just wanted to get the ball rolling present something to you to start the discussion um this is this is something that ad the administration and the faculty have weigh in on that was one of my questions have we heard from students students some to some exent and I I'll be soling more feedback policy has written um during the next faculty meeting has there been any feedback from um like student council on it they they had done a poll um about how students felt about um not this polic but about cell phones in general and if they s them as problem distraction that kind of thing you sh the results of that yeah generally um uh well there were two the students didn't um and staff were mixed back um many did and many also felt that they're you know it's kind of our responsibility to help them understand when uh when is appropriate when is not appropriate how they use M tool um I i' would like to get some more specific feedback on this this policy as written as well both from students and staff and now that it's can do that that's great um so that's the end the first end I would like to entertain a motion to move into executive session with the intent for a very brief unfilmed return for a final vote of the evening potentially um so pursuant to Master General Law chapter 38 to conduct strategy sessions and prep for negotiations with non-union personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-union Personnel or to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect I have a motion is there a second okay this is a roll call vote angle heart I bu i m i i all there okay so with that portion of the night I am going to close off our recording because the only thing that will come back we will um post a we can post a note to so thank you for those that stayed with us appreciate your help