all right good evening everyone welcome to the Hillsboro Township planning board meeting of May 9th 2024 please join me in a salute to the flag pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all am please be advised this meeting has been duly advertised according to section five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975 otherwise known as Sunshine Law notice the 2024 meeting schedule has been provided to the officially designated newspapers the Township Clerk posted here uh posted or available here at the Hillsboro Township municipal complex and also available on the Township's website in addition application documents and plans have been made available on the township Civic clerk website at least 10 days in advance of this evening's meeting complete application files are available in the planning zoning department for inspection in accordance with the public meeting notice that may have roll call of board members and also board and Township professionals please Vice chair PE and Mr Wagner and Mr vital are absent Mr Vander here Mr rtz here Mr scobo here Miss Smith here Mr de committee M the P pres Deputy Mayor Chelli here Chach here Mr Co pres Mr Bernstein here Mr Mayhew here and myself and the videographer are here okay great good evening everyone and welcome so first up we have a few meeting minutes for consideration first up is the September 7th 2023 meeting minutes Mr Burnin who's eligible uh Miss Smith the deputy mayor and you okay I have a motion I'll make that motion second okay any comments from today yes hearing none roll call please Miss Smith yes Deputy Mayor Chelli yes Shar yes next meeting minutes is September 14th 2023 Mr sco Miss Smith Committee Member P Deputy Mayor and yourself okay may have a motion I'll make that motion thank you is there a second second any comments roll call please Mr scobo yes M Smith yes Committee in the pony yes deput may Kelly yes sh yes next October 5th 202 three meeting minutes Mr rtz Mr scobo Miss Smith committee man leani Deputy Mayor chiarelli and the chair okay may I have a motion to approve so moved second okay any comments roll call please Mr rtz yes Mr scobo yes M Smith yes committee M Le Pon yes may Chelli yes chis Raj yes and finally the October 12th 2023 meeting minutes same group as the October 5th okay is there a motion all moved second I'll let the the videographer or I'll second all right we'll let Mr sco get it first okay comments from D hearing none roll call please Mr adwits yes Mr sco yes M Smith yes Comm in the P yes Deputy Mayor tricki yes yes we do not have any resolutions nor ordinances for consideration however we do have a planning board business 1170 milstone LLC with file number of 22- pb-- 09- MSP an extension of time to be provided thank you members of the board Michael ogranic on behalf of the applicants in those matters um we're under contract with the township um the status is we went under contract about a month ago uh there was a phase one environmental investigation done there was a series of uh areas of concern related to some dumping on the site and the encroachment from the neighbor those uh areas of concern have been addressed and removed to the satisfaction of the board engineer and now we're waiting on some soil sample sample testing from those uh some of those aoc's so we' just ask for an adjournment I I would just say September or the same date that we're coming back for 279 September 12th the closing schedule prior to that date okay do we need to take a formal action yes okay it's a motion Mr chairman to extend the application of 1170 mstone LLC file number 22 pb9 mspv to to September 13 2024 without further notice so moved here a second okay [Music] comments okay roll call please Mr Vander here yes Mr rtz yes Mr scobo yes Smith yes Mr Deb yes committee the pony yes chair sarach [Music] yes so Mr aric while you're here you have a couple of others that you're representing yes ex have the U we also have the uh adjournment request for 279 Homestead Mr chairman I suggest that we make a motion to suspend the order please no I will I just want to see okay H so I'm G to ask for a motion to suspend the order so we just can get through Mr grodnik so moved second okay do we need to do roll call or all in favor all in favor I I Mr Ryan [Music] Ella okay so Mr so we're going to Homestead 279 LLC well Mr chairman for purpose of the record let the parties put their appearances on the record okay Mr Michael ogrodnick on behalf of the applicant 279 Homestead LLC Mr Rella sella the owner of uh 747 Route 206 and 743 Route 206 the [Music] objector Mr um we're just requesting an adjournment uh we have to re make some substantial redesigns to the site storm water management Etc we had talked about this a few months ago but it's kind of been on pause uh so we would just request an adjournment I think we're at meeting 11 or 12 in that application so uh we're going to need more time for engineering for Outside Agency revisions if you recall um the objector requested that we essentially change the uh grading to to to and and the orientation of the building so that the detention basin's away from his lot line and so that's still underway okay [Music] I as you know I don't have councel at the moment my Council was hired by the township as a prosecutor so now I'm seeking new counsel as uh David Co does know through emails but I would like to read this email that I wrote to the board this morning uh to put it on record uh I would like to state that a major issue was brought up by the board on January 25th meeting at 8:25 the board had made it clear that the applicant must provide all necessary documents surveys and most of all the standing on the property a contract if he would like to say within 30 days of that meeting to go forward with the application a motion was made by the board with all agreeing at 8:26 p.m. the question is we are now almost past 90 days and we still don't know the standing what's going on it was I have the transcripts here by uh Mr lean saying he would like to know what's going on with the standing before we move any further so now we're moving it to September or whatever the new date is I just like to put that on record [Music] okay Mr chairman uh there was a response from the planning office which I concur with with since the application has not yet been finally scheduled the 30 days has not started the 30-day requirement has not gone into into effect I would indicate it's our recommendation to the board that the September 12th hearing that Mr ogrodnik is seeking is a preemptory hearing that if this application is not ready to go at least 30 days before the September 12th hearing either he's going his client's going to withdraw the application or the board is going to render a decision based on what is before [Music] it everybody understand [Music] yeah we certainly again you know the standard for granting of adjournments in a case that's gone on for two years I think is pretty liberal especially when it's the very objector that necessitated the complete redesign is taking a year and a half to do Lois now we're we can't control outside agencies so um you know we would uh certainly agree to submit the revised plans 30 days prior as well as any other uh legal requirements related to the issue related uh that was brought up regarding standing okay I would again make the recommendation to the board okay that it's a preemptory date can any discussion from the Das or is there a motion to adjourn till September 12th 2024 without further notice and as at 700 p.m. or soon thereafter as the matter may be heard the date is preemptory and without further notice the chair is indicated is there a motion I'll make that motion thank you Mr scobo is there a second second okay we have a motion in a second roll call please Mr Rands yes scobo yes Smith yes committee M Theon yes Cheri yes okay thank [Music] you 303 am GNA say mrck next one okay um good evening members of the board um I'm here on behalf of g&j seal tubing this is the second night 303 39 303 oh 303 uh so many clients can't remember it's the same status as as uh 1170 milone River Road under contract uh I don't think there's any environmental issues on that site um but there's a closing scheduled prior to the September hearing so we would just ask an adjournment to allow the contracts to be executed and the township of Hillsboro to acquire the subject property for open space okay and then is the objective dur in the audience Craig Berlin or Berlin sorry I don't see Mr Berlin No okay it's a motion to continue this application which is 303 M will Road J mj4 abl llz file number 21 PB 17- mspv extending the time of extending the um application time of decision to September 13th 2024 for and the application to be continued to September 2012th 2024 at 700 p.m. or soon thereafter as the matter may be heard without further notice okay I'll make that motion made the motion second so what was that okay any comments from today okay roll call please Mr rtz yes Mr scobo yes Smith yes commit in the ponnie yep Cher s yes Mr chairman before you go and start the regular order business you might want to go back to the back that's what I was thinking so we're going to back it up to for mat or for business from the floor for matters not on the agenda if there's anyone that would please would like to come up and play commentary and because we do have a full evening please keep it to comments it's not a Q&A session and also please refrain from any discussion planning uh regarding I always want to say regarding planning board uh that's a Freudian slip but um warehouses directly or indirectly and please keep comments to 5 minutes Maria Janus 720 East frck Avenue Manville New Jersey I'm also a Hillsboro Township property owner block 86 lot 3 2155 Camp Lane Road at last week's uh on Thursday last week's planning board uh meeting I had um informed the board that I did not receive proper notice from the uh um developer for the Sherman trct I stated that I had received two Flyers that were sent via certified mail with a return receipt requested but there was no information as to why these flyers were sent why one was sent and then another one with different information and then during the hearing of that uh public hearing of that uh application attorney Eric Bernstein stated that proper notice had been given I'm stating as a property owner within 200 feet of that property that prop that proper notice was not provided and so um I'm just putting that on the record and I know that this part of the um meeting is not subject to uh verbatim transcript H but I'm repeating again what I said last week and I know that what was said by attorney Bernstein is part of the uh verbatim transcript script and what was stated is not correct thank you thank you Mr chairman for purposes of the record uh Miss Janice SEC could have just as easily waited about another 20 minutes or so plus or minus to come up and make the objection again she continues to not make the objection during the appropriate part which is when the application is pending before this board if Miss janicek believes that the notification to her or anyone else is not appropriate there are Avenues available to her outside of entity in order to deal with that either now or in the future But continuing to come up and put it on the record every week isn't going to make it any better thank you anyone else from the public for matters not on this evening's agenda I see none so now we will get to the main event or the first of two thank you members of the board um again mik o grodnik from savos shock Law Firm on behalf of the applicant g& J steel and tubing Incorporated we're here seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for the construction of a 15498 ft addition uh 301 roycefield Road Vincent's Lane site access is currently provided with the two full movement driveways along Vincent's Lane that's a dead end uh Road Site improvements include uh concrete uh trash enclosure associated drainage sidewalk and uh why we're here tonight uh We've we listen to the board uh and there were some concerns raised about um traffic parking stalls um and turning movements from the property that's directly to the South uh we've spoken with a neighbor who who was here earlier and um we're going to I I promised them that we would make every effort to put some no parking signs so that his uh large truck that he uses occasionally to move his uh heavy equipment would have a sufficient turning radius um prior to this hearing we had requested a significant parking variance and uh although my client is not a majority holder of the adjacent lot we've uh discussed that with that Corporation and they're going they're allowing us to um increase a parking field uh onto the adjacent lot which we would memorialize with the clerk's office with a cross access agreement that would be reviewed by Mr Bernstein and Mr Willard um I did ren notice this although I thank the I thank Mr Bernstein for not requiring it but since we're including lot 11.01 I did ren notice it um and then you know there's a there's a a new variance necessitated by that sidey yard setback where the parking field extends um the existing variances were explained at length at the last hearing and I don't don't think I need to go over them uh the impervious for lot 11.1 is 3.7% and we're looking at about 99.2% um and again pursuant to the prior uh conditions of the land use approval when the subdivision was completed or the lot line adjustment was completed there was a restriction on impervious which we've uh removed some area that's uh currently um an area where there's some outdoor storage there's a trailer there's a gravel area and the uh this application proposes restoring that to grass so that we get under the uh allowable impervious coverage Li uh limit that was required by that prior resolution um tonight we have Mr Ford to go over the existing and proposed site conditions um really it's just the uh the parking field that's been expanded we now have with the EV credits 61 spots we're still technically we're and I had to ask Mr Dean about this but technically we still do need a variance even though the credits get us to to the 61 spaces um we have Gary Dean from Dolan and Dean uh who prepared a traffic impact study if the you know he's available to testify I don't particularly think uh given the operational testimony uh that we need traffic testimony but I defer to the board on that as well as architecture so but I would ask all the witnesses because Mr Dean was not here last time to be sworn in so we can be responsive to any questions from the board related to Traffic and architecture as well as Mr deanis sworn and Mr chairman for the purpose of the record I would indicate that I have received I'm in possession of a certification by absent board member examination of record eligibility to vote from Ron scobo for this application which makes Mr scobo eligible to hear and vote on this application this evening if completed Mr K thank you [Applause] okay you both swear that [Music] any yes I do yes I [Music] do Mike go ahead I'm the front uh Michael Ford FD with Van Clea engineering professional engineering testified to the last hearing Gary Dean de an of Dolan and Dean in Somerville New Jersey the applicants traffic consultant can can M come to the mic I'm Gonna Get You On Tape John manino m n n i o uh seron a architect I'm the appup architect uh John turki president Gan J Steel tuing [Music] okay um the uh color rendering that's on the uh screens is uh a color illustration of the most recent site plan uh last revised April 18th 2024 um it includes lot 11.04 which is the corner lot to the east of the subject lot where the addition is being proposed and quite simply the subset of changes are at our easterly driveway off of Vincent's Lane uh as the board may recall there there was there is an existing driveway and I'm going to the existing condition plan where it was suggested at the end of the last hearing that we expand the parking to the east to get closer to the 61 required parking spaces and we're at 57 we would have been at 58 but once you get over 50 you required an additional handicap space which required striping along one of the spaces so we're at 57 spaces but as Mr grodnik indicated the new standards for electric vehicle charging stations is um the regulations actually allow you to have uh a credit for two spaces for every EV station not sure what the logic is I anti iate the question but uh but we're still seeking that relief so but technically with the four EV charging stations we're at the 61 spaces total for for credit the other sub I just want to ask sping do we need to label this because this a new J do we need to this Mr lomber doia what the last exhibit sorry [Music] and and this these were submitted electronically to the planning department I understand they're on Civic clerk Mr Ford for purposes of the record just indicate what A4 that's the proposed site exhibit last revised April actually it's May 7th because it was colorized on May 7th and I'm going to zoom in so you can see that thank you [Music] May 6th excuse me okay so the other subsid of change uh was with regards to Landscaping the environmental commission had suggested that we find uh on site of locations for the tree mitigation plantings and they actually suggested that we uh utilize some of the area on 1104 which is lot 11 4 which is now part of the application and we've done that so the uh tree mitigation plantings are all provided on site and then with regards to um storm waterer management we've uh designed a storm water management system under the additional parking so um I think that's the subsi of elements and then with regards to Vincent's Lane in the no parking area um the um objector that was at the last hearing is uh the property to the south of us or on the other side of Vincent's Lane and I'm highlighting their driveway now on exhibit A4 and their concern was a large uh trailers pulling in and out of their site uh and having room to maneuver without having to go over their curb return at their driveway and the um issues caused by people parking on Vincent's Lane regarding that movement and what the applicant has agreed to do is post no parking for that approximately 100 feet basically between their access driveway and our easterly access driveway so it would keep people from parking in that area uh Mr Ford I I I apologize for interrupting is that street SL driveway a public Street yeah yes it is so any condition for no parking is going to require Township committee approval correct okay thank you to be enforcable well to which is I assume the rationale for doing it in the first place yes yeah thank you Mike but the applicant would post the signs the um other uh element is certainly is part of the parking on lot 11.04 servicing the subject lot 11.01 would be an in easement uh and that would restrict the parking for use by uh g&j steel and then I'll report to the board that we received uh two review memorandums from the township professionals since the last hearing one dated May 8th 2024 by the board's planner uh Mr kise uh and we would agree uh to address each and every one of those comments uh and requirements in that memorandum to the his satisfaction as a condition of approval and then um similarly we've received a a memorandum dated May 9th 2024 from the board's professional engineer Mr Mayu uh penon Associates and again we found find no objections to any of the comments or questions or clarifications with regards to minor plan changes in that review and we would agree to address each and every one of those comments um to the satisfaction of penon Associates and Mr Mayu one last item and I mentioned this at the last hearing we have made a submitt to njd for a freshw wetland uh letter of interpretation footprinted disturbance that is we haven't identified Wetlands on site and one of the approach is to confirm that you're not impacting any regulated areas is to submit what's called a presence absence footprint of disturbance so we identify the area of disturbance on our site submitted an application to DP for that Loi as you've heard earlier this evening and I'm sure with other applications the um processing of D applications that uh don't have a time limit for D to act are taking um in excess of uh year 18 months up to two years or more what we would suggest and um I discussed this with Mr Mayu is that um that Outside Agency and and and it's not that we need a permit from them we're we're seeking just verification that we don't need a permit from them that that not be a condition of approval because of that time constraint otherwise the project would be significantly delayed and as testified at our last hearing there's an urgent need for the additional space and what we've uh discussed and we would suggest that that the um applicant uh can secure a professional Wetland consultant to issue a letter report verifying basically what we've asked NJ DP to verify that is there's no regulated areas that are being disturbed by the application and that can happen and be reported to the board in a timely fashion uh Mr Ford just one one last uh question Switching gears to your planning hat uh would would it be your test you're a professional planner in the state of New Jersey yes I am would you agree that the bulk variance relief requested can be granted without the showing that there would be a substantial detriment to the public good and will not substantially impair the intent of the purpose of the Zone plan and the zoning ordinance yes would you agree that this is a a a appropriate use of this industrial Zone yes would you agree that uh this is a sprink sprinkler building yes it is would you agree that this is a would proberbly secure the public from fire yes would you do you would you testify as your as a professional planner that this provides adequate light and open space yes and would you uh agree that this provides an appropriate location for the commercial and Industrial uses within Hillsboro Township yes I have no further questions I think all that was consistent with my testimony the last hearing and since the last hearing as part of our resubmittal in preparation for this evening's hearing we addressed each and every comment in the review memorandums that we had received to date and that included the the Township's fire uh marshal or Fire official Chief Fire Chief so we've actually already complied with all the comments in their review that uh we said we would in at the last hearing I have no further questions for the witness sounds like the time's up May thank you Mr chairman um I concur with um with Mr Ford's U testimony that uh our office believes that any outstanding issue on our memorandum dated May 9th can be resolved I just want to bring to the board's uh attention three items um there will be uh stream quarter buffer impacts and Mr Ford has put on testimony at the prior hearing to support those waivers if the board so chose to grant them um Mr Ford mentioned the issue with of receiving an Loi or presence absence from the D so if the board was inclined to approve the application condition Upon Our review letter I would ask the board would need to amend our comment number three under miscellaneous um and we're open to the suggestion of Mr Ford that receiving a a letter from a professional Wetland scientist stating that there's no proposed disturbance to regulated areas would suffice for our office and the third issue is the additional parking um I just want to clarify and make sure the applicant understands that our it's our office opinion that the additional parking on the adjoining lot would need not just AC cross easement but the easement would have to state that the parking is restricted to this current applicant to avoid double counting these parking spaces on both Lots yep and we would agree to that I had that discussion with the president of the company today that you know should that other lot be developed at some point that we can't count these spaces for the other lot's parking needs okay great that's that's all we have perfect thank you Mr Co thank you Mr chair um the issues that were raised in my memo have all been addressed so I have no further questions or concerns at this time okay board members you answered my one question about the parking double being doubled so thank you for that um so is that land then being over and then changed over indeed restricted to that lot only is that the the plan e yeah it's going to be a cross access seasment with a deed restriction that Mr Bernstein and Mr Willard will review okay so that'll be part of that lot for so essentially it'll always be used for that lot yes okay can't be Tak it's going to be a non-revocable uh deed restriction on the lot all right that's [Music] it yeah right right no right there oh that's it all right just think curious what's up I was just curious and it doesn't sound like you have any concerns but the issue with the LOI if you were to move forward with an engineer or uh a wetland scientist statement you'd essentially just be working at risk pending the D's response to your Loi correct and having just listened to the last month's tape um there was testimony Rel if if in fact that you know uh D takes issue or we need to do a storm Garden or some uh a rain Garden or some St storm water management as required uh we would Endeavor to do so but we don't think it's going to be necessary and come back before the board yeah but I I think that the the what Mr agnik just referred to with regards to storm water we've actually already Incorporated a storm waterer Management System since the last hearing um that uh comp lies with the current state standards njac 7 semicolon 8 um and then with regards to the the concern about the wetlands we're we're we're all the area that we're disturbing and if you go back to the existing condition map is all areas that are already currently Disturbed actually our our curb line our our most westerly curb line just to the to the left or west of the addition matches up with the existing curb line the loading area behind the building the existing building and then this area here that's that's going to be green now immediately adjacent to the addition is actually loading now so so we're actually reducing the areas closest to our neighbor to the west where there may be a regulated area and we're not talking about a wetland we're talking about potentially even a wetland buffer area and we'll we'll seek out that professional uh to Pro produce uh a review report and their findings of their that would include a site visit certainly um to to be submitted to Mr meu for his uh review and approval we got one other question came up with this new parking Mr Mayu and that entrance and the addition of those Extra Spaces and they provided a template that the emergency vehicles can come in there if that lot is full and make that turn coming in off of the if they have to off of that first entrance has that been provided um I'm not sure if the truck turning template was updated but I'm comfortable that it's not negatively impacting the geometry of that turn is similar to what was submitted last month and it demonstrated so as long as we make it a condition to submit it I'm comfortable with that bless you thank you any other comments can may have a motion open to public no moved all in favor I there's anyone in the public that would like to question Mr Ford on his testimony please come to the mic state your name and address for the record [Music] please Susan Gord Hunt Club Road um a have a question on the parking the cars that are Park who's parking out there now is it employees is it delivery trucks and with your impressive expansion that you showed on your video would the expense if it's employees and you have to get additional employees will this actually be enough are they just parking out there so they get out first at the end of the day or what um yeah this this was addressed at the prior hearing I just to just to summarize that this is an expansion that's not going to necessitate any additional employees this is for storage um there is parking permitted on Vincent's Lane and um there was testimony related because of the location of of the doorway the main entrance often times visitors Park on Vincent's Lanes Vincent Lane right there um but we feel that uh certainly with the substantial expansion of the parking field uh that parking would be adequate and in fact is compliant with the zoning okay thank you okay do not see anyone else [Music] okay Maria Janu 6 720 East f Avenue Manville New Jersey um initially comments were made about having gotten uh an okay in regards to fire safety uh what was uh provided to the uh Fire Marshall uh that needed to get approval um so submission to fire is a checklist item uh and every application is reviewed by Chris wer um and we received uh approval related to this there no comment under the typical knock knockbox things like that do you have that date yeah there there actually is on uh on the cover sheet there's a list of about 10 items that are rais out of the memorandum from Mr winegar and and Mr ogrodnik is Right On Target it's with regards to knockbox um as the board may remember we have an existing fencing gated our Westerly driveway asked for a similar knockbox on that and we've we've added all those notes these are basically construction related [Music] items uh what What's going to be um stored in this uh new new facility um that there was testimony last hearing at that um does that have anything to do with uh fire safety no there's it's a steel tubing manufacturing company so there's robotic equipment there's finished product things of that nature all different types of metals that is used in the formation of the steel tubing process okay uh in regard to the um issue with the freshwater wetlands uh um uh obtaining an Loi from the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection so who would were you suggesting um hiring to kind of uh get some kind of paperwork in place in regard to the freshwater wetlands there's there's been no Wetlands identified on site and what we're suggesting is that and we've just submitted an application to DP to verify that there are no Wetlands or or buffers on the site and they wouldn't be disturbed by the proposed project and what we're suggesting is that we'd have a wetland consultant to essentially do the same thing that DP is going to do verify that fact so once you get information from the consultant do you still need to uh get the LOI from the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection well the the LOI is not a requirement it's if we're not seeking a permit to do something we're just seeking verification that no regulated areas are being disturbed to date there hasn't been any regulated areas on site that have been identified that would be disturbed and and basically as a belt and suspenders we've uh endeavored at the you know the sake of being um certain made that smill to NJ DP for the LOI the issue is just the timing of the process of that request by DP and what we're suggesting is we'd have a another a consultant basically do the same thing but in a more timely fashion okay in regard to that cross access easement um is that going to have any impact on any kind of um Wetlands or anything of that nature no no um all right then thank you thank you okay anyone else okay next witness um I defer to the board if they want to hear from Mr Dean I know you have a busy agenda MH um and architecture so if you guys we can they're sworn in if you have any questions we're available to answer those questions uh Mr chairman I I would suggest that the uh prior testimony and the material submitted covers adequately any testimony that any other witness would provide and I agree with Council that it might be um prudent to move forward without that okay I'm just going to look at my professional so you concur U Mr chairman we have no specific questions for for the architect or the traffic engineer right likewise Mr chairman thank you okay feel like I'm going to Uncharted Territory that we're going to come to a vote on an application an applicate yet it's been a while Mr chairman uh the board would be seeking to approve JN g&j steel and tubing ink file number 24- pb-1 mspv applicant seeking preliminary and final site plan approval seek both Varian and waivers to construct a 15, 498 foot building additions the existing building on property in the I2 light industrial Zone pursuant to the application submitted by the applicant as amended this evening in accordance the acceptance of all the reports by Mr Mayu and Mr Co and the agreement to all the conditions and agreements including the cross access agreement for parking that Mr ogrodnik Andor Mr Ford and or any other party on behalf of the applicant have placed on the record okay me some well that's why I'm going to say do we do a motion first before we go to the public for last Public's still open so I mean you can make the motion hold it and then okay I know it's been a while we forgotten we've forgotten what to do I just cheat she okay so I can you can make a motion and then I will turn it over to the public so okay Deputy Mayor made the motion Mr sco May the 2nd going to hold a vote last bite at the Apple for the public on the application on the application itself okay I see none so do I need to close to public close public motion is there a motion to close to public so moved second all in favor I I okay now we have a motion on the you have a motion a second so unless anyone from the board has an issue with the motion second it's a roll call Y any last comments from the board I see a lot shaking heads no that's a good sign roll call please Mr vanderley yes Mr rwis yes Mr scobo yes Smith yes Mr de yes commit in the P for I just like to thank the applicant for taking our uh comments from the last meeting and coming in with a plan addressing those comments I think it worked out for the applicate application worked out for them and their neighbor and with that I thank you and give a yes Deputy Mayor Chell yes um Cher Rog and yes thank you [Music] gentlemen doing good M uh Mr chairman I realize the next order of business is the county then Sherman I would suggest we flip them think it'll be I just want to make sure we get to a bra you think it's going to go more than a half hour well I think at some point probably around 8 45 we're going to break at 8:45 Michael okay because I think we told the county they could be on around 99 okay so if we do the break at 8:45 we can have them come in at 9: right and this is not a application that's going to get finished this evening all right so no objections from board I'm going to change the order and call Sherman track Phase 2 Eminem at you got stay while Matt that's camplan Road LLC file number 23- pb-8 mspv time of decision June 13th of this year block 86 lot 2.02 formally block 86 Lot 21 camplain Road Estelle Street for the Hillsboro Township tax records and this application's being continued from last week May 2nd of this year without further notice and counselor turning it over to you couple the other County people over I don't think you got the green light on in case you have not met him before thank you uh Miss elgard before you go on the record let me place that we are in possession of two certifications of absent board members examination of record SL eligibility to vote for Sherman track Phase 2 Emin at camplan Road LLC file number 23 pb18 MSB from Mr rtz and Mr Vander vet so they are now both eligible to participate excellent thank you um Irina elgart uh from wi Garten Law Firm on behalf of Eminem at camplan Road LLC um as the board members are aware we were here last week and um we were coming back with our traffic expert um Andrew visho and he was going to address um additional surveying that we did um along camplan Road in order to address uh Mr May ugh comments on his letter uh May 2nd 2024 it's on page five uh it's number sorry page four number five uh with regard to the widening of camplan Road um without further Ado I'm going to hand it over to Mr vishio if you could just go through some of the swor in again I think he was sworn in already or at him yes I do uh first name Andrew last name Visio V as in Victor I S as in Sam c as in cat h i o if you can walk the board through um some of your findings uh after suring the camplan road in the widening of absolutely so uh our team did go back out to the site conduct uh to conduct additional investigations um we also uh in parallel track with that uh conducted research specific to uh comment number five on the uh most recent engineering review letter issued by penon uh number two dated May 2nd 2024 uh I along with Council have both referred to uh comment number five um so I just uh we conducted an extensive amount of research on the subject and the recommendations specific to that comment and I wanted to give the board the benefit of our findings um and our conclusions and recommendations um so just to refresh everyone's memory um uh the comment uh recommended that the intersection uh of the driveway at camplan Road be widened to provide a 12-ft travel Lane and an 8ft wide paved shoulder on the west and eastbound Lanes along the uh site Frontage appropriate pavement widening taper shall be provided for both directions uh based on a 40 m hour design speed an appropriate guide rail shall be provided on the eastbound Lane uh at the existing Culver uh so as I stated previously we conducted an extensive amount of research regarding the benefits and drawbacks of providing shoulders uh on roadways uh specifically for collector types of roadways and our conclusion is that uh the there are more disadvantages by providing shoulders than there are advantages uh in essence uh we are we could be incurring uh safety conditions um that are un safe as a result of establishing these shoulders uh to address an issue that is um negligible and and not significant and does it necessarily need to be addressed um so some uh relevant resources there um section 4.1.1 of the ashto greenbook when I say ashto greenbook that's a colloquial term for uh a reference manual entitled a policy on the geometric design of Highways and streets the green book states that well-designed and properly maintained shoulders are needed on highways in rural areas with an appreciable volume volume of traffic on freeways and on highspeed highways in urban areas um camplan Road does not meet any of this criteria the roadway is in an urban setting it accommodates low traffic volumes it is not a freeway and it is not a high-speed Highway uh I think there are three major disadvantages and potential misuses of those shoulders uh the first being changing the character of the roadway being camplan Avenue um again as stated in the green book The functional classification of a Road or Street together with its context classification helps designers to anticipate the basic design types that may be appropriate for that facility so because roadway designers utilize functional classification to establish roadway Design Elements motorists frequently encounter shoulders on highspeed and high volume roadways camplan Road however facilitate facilitates access to numerous single family homes along its length uh encountering full width shoulders designed with high-speed tapers may change driver expectation and cause motorists to change their behavior the second Point um and potential disadvantage of establishing shoulders is that it would facilitate a legal passing Maneuvers so page 65 of the 2023 New Jersey driver manual specifically States never pass on the right shoulder of the road this is against the law if a motorist is stopped in the westbound travel Lane waiting for a gap in traffic to make a left turn into the proposed site a shoulder designed for high speeds would allow for this legal action and the third uh potential disadvantage is that it would encourage speeding uh as I previously noted shoulders are common along high-speed high volume roadways according to an fhwa public entitled factors influencing operating speeds and safety on Rural and Suburban roads published in May 2015 states that wider lanes and shoulders also appear to result in Faster operating speeds for example methodologies in the highway capacity manual predict an approximately 1.3 to 1.7 m per hour increase in speeds for every 1ot increase in shoulder width on a two-lane highway so in summary uh we weighed the uh benefits and drawbacks of providing shoulders uh the benefits being uh potentially uh being used as a uh way for stopped vehicles to um uh a way for um in the let me start with the eastbound Direction the benefit of a shoulder in the eastbound direction is that it could be utilized as a uh deceleration Lane so to speak um which in this case is not warranted based on the low traffic volumes making those right turns and a shoulder on the opposite side of the roadway uh I don't see um any appreciable benefits uh only drawbacks um and uh I think that uh due to the potential for people to use it legally as a passing Lane I think it would result in a more unsafe condition than utilizing the existing geometry at the proposed site driveway um so I know that I know that's a mouthful um and a lot of references council is there anything I should clarify uh yes if you could just also discuss with regard to the eastbound travel um did you find any conflicts when you went and did additional surveying yes there are uh issues with the head wall a culvert uh and a utility pole in the eastbound Direction okay um I really don't have any other questions if the professionals would like [Music] to you yes thank you Mr chairman um I just have two points I guess one is the uh camplan road is classified as a major collector on the township roadway classification map uh I would suggest that we should receive some input from the township staff engineer as to the uh design intent for major collectors within the township um and I guess my other point would be the truck turning movement plans that were submitted show conflicts for buses entering and exiting and for trash trucks so I uh I would suggest that no matter what the geometry ends up it should be a plan that eliminates conflicts for buses entering and accident and eliminates conflicts for trash trucks um I think there's leeway with emergency vehicles because I think we all understand other vehicles will yield and allow an emergency vehicle to cross the yellow line but I think for buses and for trash trucks the geometry that's finalized should eliminate those conflicts should eliminate those Vehicles Crossing yellow Lane and should eliminate them um conflicting with a car that's parked and trying to exit as an example which is currently happening and we will submit that that's that's all we have on this topic at this point Okay g throw to Mr K just yes in case I don't have anything for this Mr chairman thank you okay board members just as a matter of the traffic study that you did did you do any kind of counting on the number of vehicles that drive that road at the present time as you saying it's a low traveled Road it be interesting to see what you would consider a low traveled Road absolutely so um the uh camplan Road carries approximately uh 20 uh approximately 6,000 vehicles 6,000 vehicles per day uh which I would uh certainly classify as a relatively low traveled [Music] roadway I might disagree trying to cross that road but um and do you did you do any kind of peak analysis of when most of that traffic was was it uh Peak you know six to eight five to seven type deal yeah absolutely so um the peak hours occurred and if you could refer to wearing your report so then makes it easier for you you to take a look at it later right so I'm referring to first I'll I'll refer to the um submitted traffic impact study uh because as I previously testified to subsequent to that submission we did go out and collect new counts um so referring to the previously or the submitted study that the board uh has uh referring to page three the weekday morning peak hour occurred from 7:30 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. and the weekday evening peak hour occurred from 3:45 p.m. to 4:45 [Music] p.m. slightly different for the counts that were conducted about a month ago the weekday morning peak hour occurred from 7:45 a.m. to 8:45 a.m. and the weekday evening peak hour occurred from 400 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. and I also want to be careful to note that uh our traffic counts in the afternoon did begin at 2PM so all of uh all of our data does uh comprise any traffic that would be associated with um dismissal at the nearby elementary [Music] school thank you excuse me are you saying at the complex that there is no turning lane going into the complex that they have to go from the driving lane and they can't pass on the right that is correct so right now and and coming back the other way if there's someone wants to turn into that complex they can't pass on on the right that is correct seems as though that's going to be a a problem with when there's traffic when it's backed up 10 12 cars and you know you're going to have a problem there uh that's that's my uh no I I understand I understand where you're coming from and I think that so just in terms of what it might look like uh should this be built um it will look very similar uh to uh um the phase one uh driveway um and when it comes to the potential for backups and uh queuing that's something that we look very carefully at um we do very complex calculations with specialized software and um you know I can tell you that the um uh the level of service is a and but that might not mean anything to the lay person but um you can describe the the queuing in the time right so helpful I think it would be helpful to to just talk about the the queuing we're anticipating um only one vehicle ever being stopped in traffic heading in the westbound Direction waiting to make a left into our site and that is as a that's a result of of two factors one being the relatively low volumes on camplan road that I spoke about so the the there are I think my previous testimony was there's approximately um a gap of about 11 seconds on average in between oncoming Vehicles whereas someone who desires to make a left turn into the site only needs a critical gap of approximately 4 seconds so it it there are ample gaps in traffic um for motorists who desire to make a left turn into the site and in addition to that there aren't very many people that we are projecting that will make that left turn into the site and the last thing I'll leave you with is just the the numbers that we're projecting for those specific movements I'm again referring to our traffic impacts study the the numbers that I'm going to site are the same uh for the one that was submitted and the one that was updated recently uh I am referring to figure six on appendix sheet A3 and what's the date of the report just the date of the report um why don't I for Simplicity refer to the to the submitted report the date of that report uh it was revised April 19 [Music] 2024 again figure six sheet A4 and the appendix thank you illustrates the number of vehicles that we anticipate uh would travel throughout the adjacent roadway Network that are generated by our development um and based on our projections using using industry standards uh we are anticipating only 10 Vehicles during the critical weekday evening peak hour Desiring to make a left into the site uh we uh on the other hand are anticipating 18 Vehicles making a right into the site uh coming from from the West heading east so uh in summary It's a combination of the the capacity that's available on the road and the relatively low traffic generation of this particular [Music] development can I ask a question please when the study is done and I I do not know how it works so the question might be pretty um ill informed but um is the size of vehicles taken into consideration the average size of vehicles because that affects the turning radius most of the vehicular traffic that I've seen on camplan road having been a resident of this town are usually tractor trailers huge trucks and the block up smaller vehicles does that have any bearing in this Entre study or its outcome it does in two ways so we account for heavy vehicles in our Capacity Analysis when we conduct traffic counts we don't just collect uh we don't just count a vehicle uh as one vehicle regardless of its size we make note of whether or not it's a a truck or not um and that's important to include in our Capacity Analysis because of the reasons that you just mentioned trucks take longer to form turning movements it takes them a little bit longer to start and come to a stop um so uh all of our Capacity Analysis does account for uh a certain percentage of heavy vehicles and then with respect to our geometric design of the roadway uh Mr Mayhew pointed out that our driveway needs to be uh designed to accommodate uh school buses emergency vehicles delivery vehicles and the like um and uh we use uh turning movement templates uh to determine how large are curb radi needs to be in order to have those designed Vehicles make those turns without doing things such as crossing a double yellow um that was pointed out uh previous l or or encroaching on the opposing Lane so we so in conclusion we take a look at it both operationally and and geometrically so it sounds like sufficient due diligence has been done there thank [Music] you quick question you mentioned on page three um access to uh the scoot uh3 miles which where is that in relation to the entrance you're referring to the April 19th 2024 report yeah it's in both of them [Music] correct I apologize I don't have the location of that stop memorized but um I will make sure to follow follow up with you on that okay thank you I can answer that question I thought somebody up here might be able to it's uh Sunny me Road it's on Sunny me sunny me Corner Sunny me and Camp Lane so it's at the corner there okay I didn't know if it was down in front of the recycling center or not but it's on that corner mhm all right [Music] thanks I looked at that last meeting thank you [Music] oh yeah I'm just I just was looking at a street view so I know the other we'll say um you know we want to call it phase one or whatever I mean coming I do believe it's probably West B I mean there is a shoulder there you know that I think it just was you know natural I'm to call it there obviously there's not one here and you know most likely there'll be more of a delay someone making a left turn into the complex versus right turn and you know I'm thinking it's more of a safety feature because if someone it's a 40 45 M hour road so someone's you know someone's coming down there at a good pace and in the event that they at the last minute they really have nowhere to go turning into this the other one there is a dirt shoulder it's just natural to what that I say that business has so yeah that's kind of where the concern I think would be you know someone you know it's it's coming up on that at 4045 and they have really nowhere to go no I understand that I I want to make sure I understand um which which direction I think it's West right you got to make a left yeah yeah yeah yeah so so that's one I don't think anyone's looking for a full-blown passing lane or something like that but but I think there need there should be something where someone could in emergency you know could at least Veer off can you address I think that the conditions that it would create having that shoulder think yeah my my point previously was that uh I think the the provision of a um a path that you could travel to pass that vehicle waiting to make a left turn introduces more safety challenges then then it solves so uh what the appropriate driver behavior is for uh a trailing vehicle uh traveling behind someone who's slowing to make the left turn into the site is to use their adequate site distance which they do have in this case it's a fairly straight shot um and they would the trailing vehicle would uh slow their speed to a level that uh doesn't require them to drive all the way up to the the back of the stopped vehicle and come to an abrupt stop so they're they're almost metering themselves I I get it otherwise if that was true there'd be no auto body shops so I'm sorry I mean I see I you know I see you know on on straight roads all the time people are getting distracted and and so that's why I'm I'm just you know just countering you know that benefit detriment analysis there because I don't think right now we have I'm just looking at the street view that it doesn't look like that there's adequate for someone to you know in the last minute evasive maneuver to go anywhere like there is currently at phase one which just hasn't it's just naturally there you know so that's what I'm just saying to can take that consideration and one thing that that is very common to do is improve signage um for uh Vehicles traveling in that direction to inform them that there is a driveway uh you know at a particular location um so uh seeing that sign could uh inform the motorists that they need to be more alert of a vehicle potentially slowing down and and turning into the site um I understand where you're coming from with respect to uh you know having that space to uh maneuver at at the last second but I think that that occurrence would be less frequent than the occurrence of someone behind vehicle waiting to make a left turn using the shoulder improperly and driving extremely close to the house that's that's uh in that vicinity um I think that would happen more than the the evasive the potential evasive maneuver that might occur we'll agree to disagree yeah no totally good there's I'm only one of many here so and actually it's pertinent because that is what adds to my concern about the huge vles right it blinds the car behind so you know I I I think uh Mr Chairman's contention here is you know um supported by me as well yeah okay any comments before we open to public okay motion open to public I'll make that [Music] motion all in favor I there's anyone public that would like to question the witness witness of his testimony please come up state your name and address for the record please hi Grant colmer Taylor Avenue um there there's two traffic studies I'm reading that from the documentation is that correct one done in June one done in April that is that is correct the uh the initial traffic study was prepared um and dated June 15th 2023 subsequent to that uh there was a engineering review letter prepared by uh penon um uh their first engineering review letter uh dated April 10th 2024 in which there were three comments related to the traffic impact study um so in an effort to in an effort to address those three comments we revised our traffic study and submitted it to the board and that is dated April 19th 2024 those are the only two reports that have been submitted to the board it it was out of a necessity for collecting new data is that correct so one of the comments uh and I apologize wasn't here from the very beginning of this sure Sherman track to so I'm catching up yeah the the first comment in that uh well let me let me go back in time a little bit so the [Music] the first comment in penon first uh review letter that pertained to traffic engineering uh stated that the ti utilizes traffic Counts from May of 2019 to develop existing and Horizon year volumes using an NJ doot growth factor provide updated traffic counts and revise the ti according inly um we were not able to physically get to the site in time for the resubmission so we grew the volumes to a 2024 existing condition and resubmitted resubmitted that report to which penon again reviewed and uh found that it was um an accept able um uh uh submission uh they noted that comment as being satisfied nevertheless we did go out and perform traffic counts subsequent to the second submission of that traffic impact study just to make sure that we had 2024 volumes and were not relying on 29 preco volumes and I can go into a a whole uh di tribe about Trends in in the state in the nation about pre-co and postco traffic accounts but I won't do that I'm good wasn't really the nature of it but that's okay so uh just a uh am I hearing this correctly in the the April report I'm looking at table three which are the levels of service and those are actual and not projection or uh scaled up from from the the June report am I hearing that correctly those are actual you're looking at page six yes okay page six Table Three where you see 2024 existing yep that are that is the preco 2019 counts scaled grown significantly to a 2024 existing condition okay so that's not actual that was that was scaled those are scaled I do have actual if if you want to see a comparison I'm concerned I'm just looking at the West the Northbound right because there's a level of service that was changed from the April one from a d to an E from the Northbound on the June report same table June report D to an E so level of service decreased M this new Rapport looking at it there is no level of decrease because maybe because of the scaling I'm I'm just wondering why what report you what date what was the date of the report there the two traffic study reports the one that was the June there was a level of service increase on the [Music] Northbound and but you're looking at April 19th 19th yes I think so yes Page 6 on April 19th correct Page 6 April 19th and then I'm looking at the June 15 2023 page six he's comparing this chart I'm comparing the charts that's what I'm doing I've seen a level service increase but now I don't see it soar this is the 2019 that you had grown correct and then you said you went and checked the counts and were they consistent we're still showing the E is that what you're referring to E39 on the nonbu on theune you showed a d that was on the nonbu oh oh okay now I understand in the June report where you see an e right now previously showed a d correct okay so the reason for that is the the existing year for the 20 for the old report the June 2023 repor m was not 2024 we grew the volumes one more year so the volumes that are in the report dated April 19th 2024 overall are higher than the volumes that were contained within the June 15 2023 report okay got it wanted to know if it was scaled and it was thank you for that um just would the level of service perhaps if there was a connection I know we talked about this we brought it was up last time of if there was a connection from phase two to phase one would have uh in your opinion would it uh have any changes to the level of service that the traffic would be now that there would be two maybe egresses out from the development so I think there would be no change to the level of service at the intersection of camplan Road and sunny me Road uh I do think there would be a decrease in level of service and an increase in delay if the two projects were connected and had to use one Consolidated driveway but now there would be two though driveways that they could go in between they could take a left either in phase one or a left in phase two we are proposing two separate driveways one driveway for the two projects are completely bifurcated so I understand right so our driveway only serves our development my question was if they were connected do you see benefits to that and in terms of having access to left-hand turns no I see I see I see detriment in which way I think that there would be more Vehicles utilizing a single driveway which would result in more delay rather than going to the second one correct I think having two driveways distributes that traffic and makes operations at both better okay um I just heard you speak about just testimony here you've done you can performed research for the shoulders was that research given to the board or uh put up on Civic clerk I don't know that it was research it was more that you went to visit the site no I I think it's fair to characterize that that in being able to you know properly respond to Mr mayhugh's comment that uh we we did a considerable amount of of review of of engineering uh manuals um all of I think the question is was it in writing or is it just testimony that you're just testimony I I made an effort to to trying to be steamland too thank you yeah we we had we had a week to come back that's that's that was a little bit of a we couldn't submit a report because otherwise we wouldn't be within the 10 days ex please do based on the testimony he gave I think at some point he would need to put it in writing since he did put in testimony well he's coming back because the board asked him to look at look further into it so but that was his question was it whether it was on Civic Clerk and it was it was not nope I got it thank you uh issues related to safety can you I heard heard the the term high speed can you classify what your your terminology high speed includes what is high speed considered I'm not sure what the high speeded is referring to so uh that was in context of the use of the shoulder yep as a um that the design of a taper for the shoulder and when I say highp speeded I mean relative to the proximity to the the houses that are nearby on the north side of the roadway I would characterize I would characterize uh the the design speed and a travel Lane being any closer than it is to those houses on the north side of the road uh as as highp speed in your opinion is there a number for the high speeded maybe I I got to CL classify what is the high speed that you would be considered for this what number uh I don't know if I could I can give you a specific number depends entirely on context is this road camplan road a highspeed road relative to the houses is it appropriately sped speed I don't know what the term is no I think that I think that when you physically um not physically but when you geometrically look at what what a widened Road would look like on the north side of the road um I think it is fair to say that having the the through traffic any closer than where it is to that house would be uh considered highspeed for that particular context okay not giving me a number though no okay um would in your report that you were looking at in in the research would you agree that the shoulder that um that your manual was stating sort of went the whole length of the road or did the manual specifically reference a taper as what's referred to as what we're referencing here the I've referenced a few different manuals the manual was like Hey if you build a a shoulder then that can increase the high speed you can increase the speed inclusing for speeding I think was somewhat a paraphrasing did that manual uh you know make the assumption that the shoulder would be the entire length of the road or just the simple taper as we're talking about here yeah I think it would I think that for them to draw this conclusion it would be for a a continuous shoulder not for an intermittent shoulder and did your research ever then go into a taper uh so if it's assumption that it's the whole length then what would the taper I mean sort of counteracting it's not going to be high speeded because it's not the full length of the road I think I've um in your opinion it doesn't it doesn't change the fact that it's a taper then is what I'm hearing no I think that the having a taper to establish a full width shoulder near this driveway will induce people passing illegally would it increase their speed I think it's possible yes okay and most of those uh uh sort of the research you're seeing I'm I'm hearing a lot of speculative would you agree that that's would that that's sort of where you're coming from We're speculating if there was a taper than where drivers would do something would that is that a fair characteris I don't think I'm speculating I think I'm citing industry standard resources okay so Stu a uh a a driver you're not speculating would increase their speed you you would say that that's a fact if there's a taper then they would increase their speed um I am I I don't understand the the the taper aspect of the question if there's a full length shoulder your assum your is it an assumption or or you know industry standard that they would definitely you know drivers would definitely increase their speed or is that a sort of speculation definitely at any point so I would say that I mean I'll just I'll just read the sentence again methodologies in the highway capacity manual predict an approximately 1.3 to 1.7 mph increase in speeds for every one foot increase in shoulder width on two lane highways okay and that's the full length that we set again right that's what your manual is referencing not a taper correct but I I've made an effort to point out the negative safety implications of an intermittent shoulder as well okay thank you okay any of the questions from the public Maria Janus 720 East freck Avenue Manville New Jersey uh I'm a property owner on camplan Road in close proximity to where this development is being proposed um is this um what is being proposed as far as this driveway is that consistent with what is in the Sherman Redevelopment plan does it meet the requirements of the the Redevelopment plan uh I I would would have to refer back to Bill's testimony that's and that'll be addressed by our planner as well with regard to the requirements of the Redevelopment plan that will be addressed by our planner okay um in regard to the driveway that we're talking about what street are we talking about we're talking about the Buffalo Road right correct I'm sorry what Buffalo Road Buffalo Road is that a currently existing Road no so there is no road to turn onto right now M chus SEC you went down this line of questioning last week I I I I'm asking as part of what I want to ask and I think you may have asked last week um so why was there a change made in the uh previously submitted impact study in regard to the peak hours we collected new data I'm sorry what we collected new data collected new data were you uh were you present on site uh have you been to that site I've been to the site I did not personally collect the traffic data uh all right who did collect the the the traffic data an employee of Stonefield engineering design okay uh so uh did the employee provide information as to what um businesses are um located on camplan road that have uh traffic uh going to their site um he did not provide an inventory of the businesses in the vicinity um but I have visited the location and I am aware that there are commercial businesses is at the intersection of camplan Road and sunny me road at the intersection what about on camplan road I am aware and have seen a number of industrial type uses uh on the Northerly side of of camplan Road okay so there is a business called Klein Recycling that uh have did you see the number of trucks uh large industrial trucks that go to that site we did not count those private driveways I'm not asking about a driveway I'm asking did you see the trucks that go to that site on a daily basis we we counted them and classified them um as I testified to previously this evening uh what about the business that's fur a little further down that's uh Copart uh that has uh um car carrier large 12 car carriers uh that that go down Camp Lane Road did you count uh those Vehicles absolutely if they traveled through the intersection of of camplan Road and sunny me road we we counted them and properly classified them so you're you you had stated that uh camplan road is a low traffic Road yes that is my professional opinion so having numerous uh trucks going to two industrial sites every day is considered low traffic I don't know the the trip generation of those sites so I can't make that statement all right uh it was mentioned that camplan road is classified as a major collector Road what is that what is a major collector Road sure so um a major collector Road is um well I won't read a definition it's it's it connects arterial roadways with local roadways and a collector road is sort of hybrid in that it can provide access to um homes and it can provide access to uh commercial uses um an arterial roadway uh is more likely to have uh access management um types of principles uh you would think of a a a NJ do State Highway as as a more like an urban principal arterial and sunny me road as a local roadway and camplan Road you know connecting the two serving as a a critical connection uh uh in in our road way network uh what road did you mention uh as being an arterial roadway that connects to Camp Lane I didn't mention any specific roads I just said that um it would be very common for a a a New Jersey a state highway you know under the NJ doot jurisdiction to be classified as a as a principal arterial so then a um collector Road can have um high traffic a lot of traffic versus what you're saying low traffic some some can and I've I've classified this particular collector Road as relatively low traffic volumes so 6,000 Vehicles a day is considered low traffic yes in my opinion so what is considered high traffic anything over 6,000 or over even higher amount there isn't a specific black and white threshold um but uh in my experience taking a look at the peak hour volumes um taking a look at how sunny me Road and and camplan Road uh operate at that intersection um spending time at the site understanding the frequency of of um how frequent cars uh travel on camplan road that's that's how I came to my conclusion inclusion okay you're talking about the intersection of Sunny meet and Camp Lane how about further down uh camplan and Route 206 I would I would characterize Route 206 as uh very busy not not a low traveled drad okay and doesn't traffic come from there from there also down camplan Road you're always talking about the intersection of Sunny me and camplain what about that other uh intersection well yeah sure um traffic has to originate um um from somewhere and in in this particular case uh that's that's an origin point to the west of our [Music] site mention was made about widening of Camp lane road is that is that part of the plan to widen Camp Lane Road I I provided testimony earlier this evening um with respect to what I see as the drawbacks of that proposal I'm sorry drawbacks of what uh widening drawbacks of widening correct so then so then so then your recommendation would be not to widen camplan road that is correct okay you talking you mentioned the intersection of the driveway uh and about being widened and you made a comment about the Culvert there's a there's going to be or or the intersection is is uh at the Culvert no I I that's that's an existing condition that is um a bit to the uh west of our site it exists today I should clarify okay uh so so the the driveway will have no impact on this Culvert no not it's it's um it's to the east of of that feature you could you give a little more information on you had mentioned 4.1.1 Ash to uh Greenbrook um and their uh policy on uh geometric design of of what uh highways and streets I'm sorry did you say something yeah what a policy on the geometric D design of Highways and streets a highway and what streets and streets okay and what does that have uh what was was the purpose of that in relation to this uh camplan Road that's the that so that book is the preeminent design manual for designing roads in the United States it's published by the Federal Highway uh Administration and so what was the purpose of using that in regard to what you were discussing about camplan road is that considered industry standard absolutely uh if there is a question about how to design any feature of a roadway um the the First Resource that an engineer like myself would do is is look to that manual and and in that manual was information regarding whether or not there should be a be uh shoulders on this on on this road it it provides an extensive amount of discussion on the subject yes okay the driveway for this phase two on the Sherman tract is that going to be similar to the uh uh Drive drive away on phase one uh similar uh but as uh chair spoke there there was previously a uh a shoulder um where the driveway for phase one is whereas there is not at our location but my understanding is that phase one's driveway is one lane in and one lane out um as would ours as is as is is is is yours yeah our our proposed driveway is is one lane in and one lane out two total Lanes is it as is it as wide will it be as wide as the driveway on phase one I I'm not familiar with the exact dimensions of of the roadway for phase for phase one but I am for phase [Music] two so then you don't know if it's going to be the same width as phase one I don't have the phase one plans before me all right you made comments that um there's going to be low traffic generated uh to this particular development so that you don't see much of a change in in traffic on that road that's correct what what do you foresee as the the the the number of vehicles going into that into that development uh that that is included in our traffic impact study um we are projecting a total of uh 35 Vehicles combining in and out in the morning peak hour and 45 Vehicles totaling in and out in the in the evening peak hour is that per hour or is that during those entire periods that is that is the volume for an entire hour um and so other hours throughout the day would be less than that okay and you stated that for this development only uh 10 vehicles per hour would be making a left and I think you said 18 Vehicles making a right how do you how do you come up with that uh conclusion we take a look at the um the surrounding roadway Network and uh we essentially have had uh 2/3 um traveling to the west and onethird traveling to the east just based on how you would get to certain locations to the north south east and west so you know we we went through an exercise of of literally dropping um you know pins in Google maps and saying okay how would you how would you get to Princeton from here how would you get to um morrist toown from here and when you take all of that into consideration you start to see patterns you start to see oh well most of the routs to these major destinations to the north Southeast and West uh you know originate from the West so we had roughly uh 2/3 to and from the west and 1/3 uh to the east okay so we um you you were present when uh trucks were going to Klein Recycling and to Copart did you um do you see that as uh a safety issue when they're now going to be uh school buses traveling on that road no I I wasn't present at the at the traffic count you weren't present at the traffic count no okay so is there anywhere in the report that there are industrial uh trucks going to two uh industrial sites uh on the property which could impact safety as far as uh school buses uh going to to this development we took all of that into consideration uh and those specific values are inputs in our uh capacity analyses and is there a conclusion to that we concluded that the the proposed development would not have a significant impact on the operations of the adjacent roadway Network on what the adjacent roadway Network okay even though there's there are no school buses going that way now you don't see that there would be a problem in the future was that a question um some kind of comment was made about something previously shown as a d and now it's an e was that in regard to the uh traffic study correct and what what does that mean so the highway capacity manual essentially grades approaches to intersection based on how much delay a motorist incurs um so if you travel through an intersection and essentially don't stop that's uh probably going to be level of service a if you approach an intersection and you see the light turn green and then it turns red and you didn't get through the intersection that's probably going to be level of surface F so um those are the the letter grades um that that we're referring to it's it's correlated to the delay incurred by a motorist so that was uh from one ex uh extreme to the other from a to F so so here you're showing that it would be was previously D and now it's an e yes but it's I like to say that the the the grades for uh Capacity Analysis uh you're you're not striving for grades as you would in in an academic setting if if you're designing your roadways to all be level of service a uh you're not properly allocating your resources um generally speaking the industry finds level of service D or better or e or better as acceptable as what acceptable accessible acceptable okay is f accessible also it depends on the jurisdiction like if you if we were under if this report were to be reviewed by the New Jersey Department of Transportation they would have um they would ask us to take certain measures if something was was level of service F but in all likelihood if it was level of service e or better uh they would find that acceptable but it depends on the jurisdiction okay can you explain once again what is the what is the disadvantage to having a shoulder m j he answered that no excuse me next question sorry what next question he's already answered that he answered it yep okay he did if you say so it's on the video is what it's on the video you can watch on YouTube tonight thank [Music] you so you feel that that there is um safe passage on this road in regard to the homes that are uh located on on this street that there will be no no issues as far as uh safety for the uh homeowners or the property he's already testified to that he did yes he did okay all right thank you yep okay if there's no other we will end because we do have to take a short break and move on to our next applicant so if I yeah made before we go on break um I just wanted to have Ron Al back come back up I wanted to review very quickly um Can can I suggest that we we made a commitment Mr allenbach I'm sure under durest will be here at the next hearing and we start with him when we start the hearing on the 13th we did promise the county they could come in at 9:00 we're not going to get them at 9:00 we're going to take a break so okay well I I mean it's really quickly through that's my suggestion to the mr's report okay because then the public gets to ask questions understood so commitments were made uh one other item for the record miss elar you and I discussed this yesterday and today it is anticipated that Miss cfone will be here on the 13th because she's coming back in the absence of her it is your indicate your desire to go forward with planning testimony that night correct we're going to go forward we will submit a planning report co-authored it's going to be the same report but it's somebody else from her firm that at least 10 days in advance of the June 13th hearing absolutely just for the purpose of the right I appreciate that yes okay Mr chairman what we now need is a motion to continue this application to June 13 2024 at 700 p.m. res soon the the matter may be heard without further notice okay may I have a motion second okay roll call please uh Mr Brer Mr rtz yes Mr sco yes Smith yes Mr de yes Comm Le yepy mayy yes Raj yes Mr chairman 920 we'll do 9:15 to the by that clock this one right here the digital okay thank you we're back in session next up is Somerset County multi-use facility file 24- pb-2 DF block 142 lot 23.02.18 that the open to the public portion occur at the completion of the testimony of all Witnesses so they can they still can ask any of the witnesses questions but rather than doing it normally individually because it's a courtesy application that works for MEK you councelor thank you hello my name is Marina steinley from The Firm CLE closer from The Firm clear jacobe alferi and Jacobs um representing the county of su set um and we are here to request a courtesy review and recommendations from the board um P for this proposed multi-use facility Project based on under the mlul section 31a the project as was stated is located at 360 roycefield road block 142 lot 23.02.18 comprising of 76,7 8 square ft it'll serve multiple purposes so it'll be used for the office of emergency management vehicles um to house election board voting machines and for possible election board offices at some point and to just provide a versatile uh space for the County's needs in the future the building will include some o uh some loading Bays for the office of emergency management and election board storage requirements so when we need to move the voting machines in and out a couple times a year it'll be stored there um and one Bay is designed as for future use and unknown yet um the county will also provide landscaped areas and three underground detention basins to provide storm water management and we seek to achieve lead silver certification for the product uh for the project and we don't anticipate much uh traffic coming from this project so that's a general overview we're looking for the count uh the board's review and recommendations and I have the County's architect here to provide some testimony and give some more details on the project so if we get him tonight truth the home truth truth I do yes it's Kurt veril V is and Victor i r h eii l i g pull the mic Clos s sir spell it again we got it okay um I'm U employed by DMR Architects and I'm a partner and director design and I oversaw the development of the uh of the project so I'm very familiar with it and could you provide the board some background on your qualifications um so I graduated uh NJIT with my bachelor of architecture um I've been practicing architecture for over 20 years and you're licensed in the state of New Jersey licensed in state of New Jersey in good standing all right Mr chairman and we accept all right please continue thank you very much so if you could um just direct the board's attention to your exhibit um this was not previously provided to the board but it's a colorized rendering of the um engineering plans it's going to be marked A1 if you'd indicate what A1 you don't sure I will is this working okay indicate what A1 comprises of sure uh she A1 is um identified as site plan uh it's sheet number two and it's dated um 424 20124 and it is a rendered um colorized um site plan which shows the Landscaping shows the building shows the driveways shows the parking areas um the tan area in the middle is the proposed building uh the light green is the grass the Landscaping is in Darker green the darker gray is the circulation areas around the building and then um it's uh overlaid on top of a aerial um photograph so um what's um being proposed is 76,000 square foot um multi-use building uh it's located on um adjacent right off of roycefield f Road um and Avenue A Avenue a is on the bottom um of this drawing here which is on the southern portion and um that's a thoroughfare that's part of the site but um is not being um impacted or changed um there are some minor improvements that are happening there but that um thoroughfare is remaining as is all the um access and movements will um for the proposed project will be happening um off of Avenue a so um there's proposed two access driveways um one on the west side towards roycefield and one um on the right side of the site um to the east um opposite um further away of roycefield the building um is a bar-shaped building it's located generally in the middle of the site um has three uses um the the left side starting left to right is the OEM garage uh in the middle portion would be the storage um for um elections um and then the right side is a um shell space for uh future use just open um open space on the interior not no defined use at this um present time there are uh proposed 67 parking spaces on the site uh 19 by o 23 in the front um along Avenue a 19 plus 6 which would be 25 on the right side um circulation on the site as I mentioned the two access points um the um election storage area has um need for tractor Trail or access so in the rear of the site there are three depressed uh tractor trailer um bays located here I'm pointing to the middle of the rectangle on the upper side of the drawing and um access to those for those Vehicles who be in Avenue a to the second exit to the second entrance come in Traverse through the site and they'd be able to um back into um each of the each any one of the three loading docks um access into um the uses is from the front so um with that uh diagonal parking along Avenue a that's where uh people that would be accessing using um this using the spaces would be accessing in from uh on the left side the OEM garage is um is a drive-thru type uh facility and so um access for vehicles would be in the first entrance and then they would go Traverse towards the rear of the site and um be able to maneuver into the garages and then they'll um they'll be queed and set up so that they can um exit um during emergency use essentially the O garage is where they Emergency Services will store their um their vehicles different vehicles to respond to all different sorts of emergencies um throughout the county and um so it's um there's no real prescribed time of day that that will be utilized um so um that happens here um there's a parking area as I mentioned immediately to the entrance to that so that uh so that responders can have immediate access to that um yeah I mean that's the the kind of overall site plan approach I'm going to go to the the floor plans here and A2 A2 thank you very [Music] much so exhibit A2 is sheet A1 um and it's called first floor plan and the date is May 9th 2024 planning board presentation and um this sheet is a floor plan with colorized um areas depicting each one of the different uses so as I mentioned before in the purple here on the left is OEM Garage in the middle in the the tan is the um election storage area um there's a small office in the front and then on the right in this uh yellow is um is a future use um shell space and and is the building going to be fully sprinklered yes and the there are there bathrooms in the building there are um OEM there's a a bathroom in OEM area uh the warehouse area storage facility area um has a small office as I mentioned and there's um toilets in there for the um for the staff that will be using that and it be ADA Compliant yes all ADA Compliant okay and um and then the the the shell space on the right has Provisions but uh but there's no bathrooms being built because there's um really no determined use at this point as to exactly how um it will be needed or how it will be used but and there existing utilities on the site um there there are um there are utilities yes and they're being um improved to bring them up to what's necessary for um to accommodate for the new facility okay great okay and I'm going to skip to the renderings um oh also I I failed to mention there is a small covered um like a canopy um on the North side adjacent uh to the OEM garage and that's for outdoor storage of additional vehicles to keep them um protected and from the weather and um so that when if they do need to when they need to respond to incidents um inclement weather that they're protected and sheltered I'm going to go to the renderings now [Music] um give you an idea about what the building A3 look like A3 yes got it fast learner counil Council you're going to provide a colorized version so yes we will um provide this uh digital file to you um A3 is she A3 and it's also dated May 9th 2024 and its concept renderings so um the top rendering is the look uh is the uh perspective view from Roy Royce Field Road as you approach into Avenue a immediately so the building around uh 26 ft tall um it's uh going to be a metal metal um skined building it's going to have um two different colors a darker gray and a lighter gray and so the darker gray is a kind of a ribbed vertical um metal panel and then the lighter gray as you can see here on the The View looking from from East towards West um this is the office this is the warehouse um election space and this is the um shell space on on the right kind of in the front um the lighter color is another metal panel we have a kind of like a little canopy overhang happening on the entrance um the garage doors we have that surrounded flanked by the lighter color metal panel just as an accent um very simple clean non- flashy utilitarian service building so if there's any other um questions or anything else you want me to highlight I think the there's rooftop HVAC proposed and how will that be situated yeah so the uh it's a it's a relatively large building as you can see from the uh from the large in terms of the footprint as you can see from the rendering on the bottom the mechanical units will be located on the top in the center of the building so they won't be able to be viewed from around the perimeter around the edge um so they're not um going to be tremendously tall units they should be probably in the range of like six to 7 feet so with that and with the um the perspective View and the sight lines we don't think that there's the need to um have any screening since um you it won't be viewed and then how will trash be removed from the property so um trash the way the county um um Works their trash collection is that they have um their their maintenance service scws come in and take the trash put it in the in the vehicle that's collecting that and take it away this building is not going to generate um any significant amount of trash that would need um like a dumpster or anything and the building will it have some exterior lighting um the exterior lighting is all sight lighting s lighting okay um sight site poles and then who the pavement and Roads that are connecting the site or around the site for the circula site circulation and then to the Avenue a who will be maintaining those roads uh the county will maintain it and will there be a generator or generator storage there is a generator on the north side of the site um yes and then sidewalks are on the property sidewalks so just um just for circulation from parking to the entrances okay and [Music] then we received some professional reports um from the Town Township and from the board the we received the fire district memo um dated April 24th 2024 and the county would would agree to comply and work with the township um fire chief or Fire Marshal um to comply with those all the comments in that memo we also received a memo from um the planning director dated May 9th with some three comments um the first one was regarding the use as government use only so could you testify that the regarding the proposed use for the property that uh that is the intention that it will be used solely by the county all right and then that there's existing fencing with barbed wire um is that intended to remain I've been told that yes it will remain okay and then the final comment in the planning report was regarding um access that goes through the subject prop property that connects to a federally owned property and so the county does not have any plans to change that condition there's a deed in place and everything will remain the same regarding that connect um that access point um then we have I think that's all of the te questions I have oh we have the engineering report yes um dated Main 9th 2024 and we've reviewed the comments um a lot of the comments are I would say more geared towards a traditional application but the the county is willing to work with the board engineer the township Engineers to make sure that any of their concerns and their recommendations are are complied with so if you have questions now i' be happy to if we need the I have the engineer with us too if we need additional testimony um but there will be storm water management facilities installed on site too okay may here thank you Mr chairman um many of our comments had to do with storter management I just received today a review letter from the Delaware and Raritan Canal commission I understand you made an application is it your intention to address the DNR Canal Commission [Music] review all right we'll have our engineer no you don't you don't need to but you can answer for your yes we we will okay and that that'll address that would probably address every one of our stormw questions if they're able to meet the DNR Canal commission comments then then I'm not concerned with our stormw comments I guess I would want to just bring two questions to light one is the covered parking how close is that to the property line oh good question I'll find [Music] out 1 to 30 just give one [Music] second it is 9 ft was there any consideration because I'm assuming that would encroach on Accessory use or building setback requirements for the district if you had to meet those was there any consideration to locating that somewhere else farther from the property line um this location seemed like it was the least obtrusive um so we hadn't really we didn't see that there was an issue since it's an open air structure there's no walls or it's just it's basically just a roof and it's 14 ft tall and so it's just a gentle sloping roof we didn't feel that it was um negatively impacting the adjacent property because it's not really a full s you know fully enclosed element um and the the last question I had is would the county and this would be that the board's discretion that there's a lot of area between the front of the building and roycefield Road that's not landscaped I don't know if the county would consider additional Landscaping to help buffer yeah I think I think that would be yes agreeable those are the extent of our suggestions you Mr Co thank you Mr chairman um thank you for addressing uh some of the comments that I had just further clarification that the reason why I was asking about the barb wire was because there was a note on the plan saying that uh the fence was going to be continued with the same barb wire and what I was just trying to understand is it necessary for this property to have the barb wire and because we also noticed that the barbwire that's along uh along the road as noted Mr meu's report seems very old um so we're just trying to understand if some new fencing is is is being added uh just I'm not sure exactly how long some of that fencing has been there but my guess is it's uh it's pretty old it's been there for a very long time and we're just trying to understand or at least for the board's edification you know is this type of facility does it require the barb wire or are you just trying to continue what was currently there [Music] they don't like electrified bar wire okay um so I I've been told that they will maintain it and replace it but they want to M they want to maintain it um to keep the barb wire but they will maintain it and replace it to make it look more um so it's not less rundown looking and there's not things you know caught in it and stuck in it and that making it look old okay thank you Mr chairman I have nothing further okay you board members in the vein of uh barred wire are there will there be other security measures at the uh at the site um in terms of um other like access controls limitations cameras yes there'll be um cameras um and not any uh Gates or or restricted kind of um fencing like that at the entrances okay but yes cameras around the perimeter for security and how many employees do you anticipate so um as I mentioned OEM is a kind of a on call as a need basis um so they're estimating about 6 to 11 employees people that would come and utilize um the apparatus um based on the need um they would also do some maintenance on equipment not the actual vehicles but equipment that's associated with the vehicles for operation um of that um so that's OEM elections is estimated 3 to seven people on a regular basis um and seasonally um could be up to um you know 20 plus um so they can do their their work and then um the shell space it's to be determined in terms of like what's in there the um anticipation is that it would be you know storage and and light office use so not like intense um capacity or density so you know we're estimating maybe maybe 40 people may may occupy that but there's that's an estimate without really having any benefit of knowing what's there they don't have any intention of exactly what would what might go in there and and how many parking spots were there there's 67 so that's pretty much it's pretty close to that yeah so um so there's 67 spaces right now um to to the east obviously the county owns that property also um if in the future there was need to have additional parking um first on the right side where the drive aisle is there could be expanded parking into there and they could subsequently you know move Eastward if there was the the um the need to uh to accommodate um additional spaces or parking based on an intensity that's not anticipated at this point okay all right thank you evening um so two questions a uh in regard to parking are you uh you didn't talk talked about any EV ready spots as required by yes um there will be six um EV um ready spaces okay that will be they're going to install the um all the infrastructure and then as they need they're going to um phase in but there will be six spaces and at this point we're they're anticipated along the front and the three I'll call separate uses are those walled so there's no yes there no communication between no internal connection so they're all individual sated sections yes and my last section is U buildon size is is there any plan or being made available for solar on top of that facility yes the building as was mentioned is um going for lead silver so along with all the other requirements of um making um designing and constructing um a sustainable um energy efficient building solar panels are part of that in this particular case so yes thank you [Music] okay I just have a quick file with regards to that the building's going to it's going to be just used for government or County purposes there wouldn't be any subleasing to outside no County government okay we seeing what the feds have done so okay if there's none we can go to your next witness I think that's all we have um unless the board wishes to hear more about the storm water management but I see Engineers saying no okay motion to open the public I guess so motion open the public please I'll make that motion okay second all in favor I have anyone from the public like to question first come first [Music] surf oh yeah that's okay we we have a history thank you Susan Gord on Club Road um the uh election area the election board um I you partly mentioned security so you're going to continue the barbed wire but clean it up you're going to have cameras but I guess in this day and age we want to make sure that the election area and the storage of the machines is particularly secure without going into specifics um that will be addressed yes yes the county will provide um all the security measures necessary and there's requirements for the Board of Elections to comply with those okay what is there now where that building is proposed is that just a field or it's it's just a concrete slab just a big concrete slab and asphalt parking lot okay what are the buildings directly across the road from it uh they're commercial buildings I'm sorry they're what commercial buildings oh okay um the OEM section where you're going to have vehicles if oh you first of all the bathrooms you said there's going to be just toilets there right one toilet okay so you're not going to have um any special showers for decontamination or for rinsing off trucks after the responded there's a eyewash station but not um not at this particular location no okay is this septic or is this public excuse me is this septic systems or is this public SE sewer okay so if they responded back from an incident needed to wash off it would go out into the sewers then the resulting water I don't know they do that here there's there's there's no not the intention that they'll be cleaning them here okay uh and you asked the question on the solar panels oh the EV is there a special EV that's needed for trucks or is just an EV is good for any vehicle the the ones we're providing or or you're talking about something different than the provided they're they're just going to be a regular um vehicle for passenger vehicles passenger vehicle correct okay I'm only bringing this up CU there was a discussion recently about Trucking and warehouses and they were mentioning upcoming was electric I will say that there is there's charging inside for each specific vehicle specific each vehicle has its own specific um requirements so um but it's not for public use okay thank you you're welcome coming up behind you [Music] try Maria Janu 6720 East fck Avenue Manville New Jersey um there's going to be OEM Vehicles what types of vehicles will there will there be um emergency response vehicles I mean that they respond to all different types of um emergencies I mean well like fire fire trucks um emergency vehicles I mean not necessarily I fire there's different kinds of fire trucks they're emergency vehicles that have specialized equipment to respond respond to specialized incidents I [Music] me I don't um you want me to give you the names of the types of vehicles or the equip have some idea of what types of emergency vehicles um um EXT extrication um rescue um uh emergency command uh like command type vehicle in terms of like managing a um a scene of uh incident um just yeah it would be no different than what we have here in hspro similar to like an ambulance Coors vehicle something like that or for other Ty of but it's all specialized equipment so like a fire truck and using the term fire truck is a usually um for you know um a fire of you know of a house fire but you know I don't I think one of the units is like a foam unit like so there's spe it's specialized equipment that normal fire department or um or even municipality might not have uh do you know where this uh these uh OEM vehicles are currently uh being stored yes uh next door um on the site next door in South uh South County's um garage area Okay uh is this property uh uh owned by the county yes it's owned by the county all right uh and there there is no no uh current use only only a a big what con concrete slab on the site it's it's a vacant um property which is used for just uh General random storage um I'm sorry General random random storage outdoor outdoor stage outdoor storage okay and where is where is this uh old Barb to wire what is that where where is that uh along the perimeter on the left side the top and the right but that will be replaced that'll be yeah maintained to better uh better looking order and aesthetic is that around that that whatever whatever is existing that slab is it totally around that slab it is around yes that whole whole property okay um there are uh three separate sections uh proposed within the building uh how large is the area for the uh OEM around 9,900 and for the election machines um that one is around 47,000 and what is the total of 6 60 the total is 76708 so there is there is no uh U currently Pro uh dedicated use for that third section not at this time what what what is the size of that one around 20,000 20,000 um you said there are 67 parking spaces why are so many parking spaces required this this is what was determined uh that was necessary to support the the facility um all right so in regards to the OEM that's storage for OEM vehicles and how many how many employees are there I think um he are are already provided that testimony okay yeah all right so that I I think it was like maybe six or seven it was under 10 yeah so so 67 parking spaces will be required for that third use that's that's currently not uh dedicated to anything um we already we did provide testimony that there are about 6 to 11 OEM Personnel uh anticipated they're about there could be 3 to seven employees for the elections area and then the flexible space it's undetermined but possibly 40 employees we don't know yet that's why the county came to the conclusion that they needed the 67 spaces so 40 employees are uh currently what is being considered for that third right now nothing has been has been considered nothing is being considered for that space just the county just wants a flexible option in the future how how did the county determine that 40 parking spaces would be required for that section we we we estimated it based on what um the best our best estimate at the time for what would be um what would be we felt to be adequate and as I mentioned if if there was a need there could also be they could expand um provide and if needed be in the future the county owns the whole partial they could expand if there was um a lack of parking because it would only be in their best interest at that time if if that was necessary to be able to provide parking for the the use they you said the county so we we're not over we don't we didn't want to overbuild the parking so we're providing the amount of parking that we feel is necessary at this time you just said expand expand what the parking or the building if if the county needs additional parking we own the entire lot behind so we could build more if needed but right now we don't think we need anymore okay well well we're talking about 40 right now that with no no use currently uh uh dedicated to this so it's interesting uh why would why would the county consider that they might have even might even require even more parking spaces if we need more parking spaces we'll be back here again and you can we'll address those concerns [Music] then okay is there is there a reason why you feel it's necessary to have barb wire I believe the testimony was that this is a secured facility with election board equipment and it's already existing barbed wire so we're just going to maintain what's there all right thank you thank you no okay public shook their head now okay I G to make a motion to close I'll make a motion to close second all in favor I last words coun all right we thank you so much for your time we'll be in touch with the board and Township professionals to address the comment letters and any other recommendations that you the board would have okay appreciate it I there's nothing for does the board have any other recommendations because I'm assuming at some point we're going to have to put something together for the record it may not be a formal resolution but if the board has any other recommendations for the site it's now or never well I mean we already have a few on right are you tempting me with my one question when has that ever stopped you sure I'll ask any proposals or considerations about expanding Brown Avenue towards the site I'm sorry the extension to Brown Avenue I think you come up Mr I know I know that you probably weren't the right one ask but it's always Almost Got Away Matt can we swear Mr lerm yes for this truth the truth truth yes State my name is Matthew ler ler I'm the Somerset County engineer and the director of uh engineering and planning for the county of Somerset uh stat yeah so uh this project is unrelated to that project as the simplest answer I can give as you're well aware or the township aware where the county has been in agreement with Hillsboro Township with the developers agreement with uh the adjacent property owner to build that extension out of 206 and that that's really the extent of uh that discussion as it relates to this project okay that's the answer that's it I thank you you I would be remiss if I didn't so [Music] okay so now and it's a motion to authorize the submission of a document other than a resolution on behalf of the board to the county relative to the recommendations from professionals and any other comments the board made on the record tonight I would just add to make sure that uh when you get the approval from DNR you would get that to our engineering department for our records all right understood okay make a motion thank you second there's a second roll call please just real quick um the board for some reason didn't put Mr Dev on here is he allowed to vote I don't see any reason why he wouldn't I guess somebody in planning doesn't like Mr de let fly Mr vender yes Mr randz yes Mr scobo yes M Smith yes Mr Deb yes Committee in the pony yesy mayor Chelli yes yes thank you very much good luck with it Mr chairman to two procedural items first is a motion to cancel the business meeting in May the 23d yep so is there a motion to cancel the business business meeting of 23rd so moved second okay do we got do we can do what all in favor all in favor I I I good that's canceled uh I would remind the board that the next regularly scheduled meeting is June the 6th and at the moment we have three sl4 applications on now a couple of them will be Extinction requests but at least two correct me if D there at least two applications I believe that will be on the agenda for the night of the 6th what it's D day and God knows what else uh I don't think it's D Day for that application yet uh so I remind you if there's anybody who is not going to be able to be at the meeting to advise Mr CO's office so we make sure we have a quum motion toj yep I now will entertain a motion of [Music] adjournment all in favor I I good night everyone see you onun you all can handle going home early 10:00 early no