yeah here we go okay welcome everyone to the sorry welcome everyone to the burough of Hillsdale joint planning zoning board meeting on Monday December 4th 2023 we will begin with an open public meeting statement by our deputy secretary T janner this is a meeting of the Hillsdale planning board on Monday the 4th day of December 2023 which is being held in compliance with the provisions of the open public meeting act and Associated regulations notice of the time and place of this meeting has been provided to the bridgwood news and the birthing record a copy was posted on the Bulls and board outside of this meeting room and the burrow website and was made available in burrow Hall and provided to any interested parties a copy of the agenda for this meeting was made available for a review on the Burrow's website near the posting of the meeting notice and in burrow Hall please silence all cell phones please wait to be recognized by the chairperson during the public hearing and the public comment part of the meeting you will need to state your name and town of residence for the record a copy of below listed applications may be obtained by requesting a copy in advance of the meeting by contacting the board deputy secretary at 201 666 4800 extension 1543 Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. in addition the application documents are available for viewing or download on the planning zoning Ford page of the burrow of Hillsdale website at www. Hillsdale nj.org or by appointment at the Hillsdale borrow Hall 380 Hillsdale Avenue Hillsdale New Jersey 0764 stand flag FL United States America the it stands indivisible thank you Tanya um when you get a chance roll call please chairman re here Vice K here secretary Raymond here Mr alter here Mr Freedman here Mr GRE here Mr M here Mr Berlin Miss Toms Council escar mayor ruko board engineer Mr C here board attorney board planner Mr Baron roll call complete all right thank you very much this is the point in the evening where we'd like to open up the meeting to the public to comment or speak on any items or issues other than those that are listed on this evening's agenda as well as any any future matters that are scheduled to come in front of the board if anyone comes forward please state your name and address for the record not seeing anyone I shall close it uh we'll start off with uh some housekeeping we have some invoices we have two invoices from our engineer Christal's office totaling $1,347 give everyone a moment to uh just briefly review that and if you have any comments or questions please feel free to just Reach Out Mr chairman yeah I do have a question sure and invoice number 30 it looks like 3500 October 16 20123 I did speak to Chris about this there seems to be a entry for 719 2023 for a file review of a land fil for the B Barrow attorney which is transmitted to the county um the County documents I don't think that was ented correctly I think that should be more councel than planning but I think Mr stel has already referred yes that's fine we'll pull it off but yes corre is that landfill meaning uh the Redevelopment area or no it's got to do with the landfill up there okay going on with that so what we're saying is that has been rectified is what we're saying everything other than that yeah fine all right so do I to deduct that from the approved total correct okay so the one in question is $270 deducted correct yes correct okay make it sure uh not to do the math on the fly but um do I have anyone for a motion to approve those two invoices minus the $270 motion to approve second okay we have Mr Amon and M Kates chairman Ren yes Vice chairs yes secretary Raymond yes Mr alter yes Mr fredman yes Mr greed yes Mr mccuan yes motion thank you very much moving on we have the meeting minutes from our last meeting which was was October 24th 2023 uh again does anyone have any comments or questions regarding these minutes not seeing any I'll accept a motion motion approved Mr Raymond second Mr alter second chairman rean yes Vice chair ke was not at the last meeting and secretary R was not at the last meeting can we make the motion on a minut uh let's just uh make sure we cross I'll accept a different motion because Mr Raymond was not here I'll take the motion okay all right now Circle back Mr can was that the motion to approve the minutes M okay if you were present that that understood sorry Mr alter yes Mr Freedman yes Mr greed yes Mr McAn yes okay motion pass all right thank you very much uh we have the resolution resolution 2023-2024 3 that was for Block 704 lot 11 also known as 79 Beach Street for John sers it included both variances for a covered deck uh I'll take any questions or comments regarding the resolution that's been drafted not to rush anybody but I'll take a motion to approve motion to approve Mr alter second Mr Freeman [Music] second chairman Reen yes Vice chair ke is not at the meeting um secretary R is not at the meeting Mr alter sir yes Mr fredman yes Mr greed yes Mr mchan yes and motion pass okay moving along we have completeness review um before the completeness review why don't we uh just swear in our professional Chris please swear testimony the truth truth I do all right thank you so back to it we have p-05 d23 block 6 1822 loot four also known as 307 Evergreen Street uh we have the Irene Davis Trust as the applicant single family home of additions that creates a DN C variances correct that's correct okay first why don't you take the floor and just tell everyone quickly about this application right briefly it's just in addition to an existing single family house it's already in violation in terms of terms of this F as well um so it's going to be uh they're actually going to believe it or not uh they're going to raise the imperious coverage by a tenth perc basically and the f is going to be high as well over the 35% allow other than that the application is complete and ready for follow um anyone have any questions again pertaining only to the completeness of this application you will have your chance to ask questions about the application after the hearing the uh surveys up to date surveys recent the survey is recent yes survey um all right um before we go into the motion for this because we don't have a tentative schedule for next year um we'll just roll this as approved and then we'll make the date next year the next app will yeah the 19th won't be appal too close for that um but and then the first meeting in January will be the I did to their uh Mr Bruno Joseph Bruno is there professional I book to him and he said he's willing to wait till the calendar comes out and we can schedule sched sometime in January okay great all right so I'll take a motion to approve can I just ask Chris a quick question sure uh calculation on the existing floor ratio did you just mention that that that's not existing right now but you do have a request in for the existing floor uh F correct existing floor ratio yeah is is 43.961187 35 allowable so that's that they're asking for that addition okay there was a note you had a calculation on the existing FL ratio that the existing for existing F doesn't appear to be in violation I don't think that was your your notes on the general comments yeah in the very oh in the beginning here number two page 304 P4 let me just go we did this report month ago imp Pur coverage is not conforming right they they didn't show most of the time for these existing dwellings I don't always get an F of the existing house that's kind of a a problem we have sometimes with the Architects or the applicants too I'm sure Joe Bruno could provide that he he'll have it ready thank you he usually does anyway he I'll make a not after thank you Scott all right back to it I'll take a motion to approve motion Mr Raymond second second Mr G Vice chair Cas yes secretary Raymond yes Mr oler yes Mr Freedman yes Mr GED yes Mr MCU yes chairman R yes motion all right again and that will be uh tentatively put on the second meeting date in January and we will review that at the end of this meeting okay that takes us to the hearing for this evening we we have pc-420 block 20002 L 26 also known as 6 Willowbrook Road uh Selena rur and John B bomo I'm sorry I yeah we'll get to that I apologize um it's a pool and pool equipment bulk variances um we sworn our professional so if you guys like to please approach the stand and then tell us what you have you have some Council representing you yes keeper lect yes please I need you on the microphone okay just give me a second to uh yeah please take your time set up the [Applause] uh this repition good evening everyone uh may be it uh sorry we just give the the board your uh your qualifications just we haven't seen you present before so if you just give us a quick rundown of your licenses and yeah I'm actually their attorney uh Andrew Bolson from Myerson Fox and Cony on behalf of the applicants Selena RoR and John B please continue thank you uh for the record here the uh subject property is located at six Willowbrook Road and situated in the R2 district and it designated block number 2002 lot 26 uh we are here tonight seeking a variance for an existing pool and pool equipment that were installed not according to building plans as my uh my client will get into uh the applicant seeks variances or we've noticed variance relief for under sections 310- 55e and 310- 55 H5 uh for the burough Hillsdale uh that is for uh a rear yard and the engineer will get into the uh it's a a variance for a rear yard setback uh particularly for a pool related equipment and also potentially for a side yard variance uh for the pool itself and as Mr ctil noted in his in his letter uh from October of 2023 there's a preliminary matter that I wanted to raise to the board which is whether the uh board is requiring the sidey guard variance um in this case the pool itself um and the engineers who testify to this is over 10 ft from the sidey yard it's the p that are 6.8 ft off the side yard um and under the ordinance particularly 310- 55e uh it indicates that no swimming pool shall be construed other than as uh I'm sorry no swimming pool shall be located nearer than 10 ft to any rear lot line or side Lot line or nearer to any Street line than the principal building to which is an accessory uh the the foregoing distances shall be measured from the pool water line or any portion of the above the ground structure whichever is the nearest to the property line um the engineer can testify as to those requirements but it you know we wanted to notice everything because um my client has been um my understanding my client couldn't proceed without variance relief um so we wanted to be short to cover any potential variance but we are you know seeking the board's input as to whether the side yard variance is required um is that your whole testimony or you no I mean I just as a preliminary matter I didn't know if you want you want to answer if that's uh if yeah anything was in the the letter of denial um and Chris I did ask this earlier today as well um it is set in stone that we are looking for that variance release as well correct that's correct yeah okay so we'll have that uh addressed um so I will call up uh as my first witness uh John bonomo uh the app M Mr B how long can you raise your right hand please you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth or nothing truth please state your name and your address record John B 64 B Road New Jersey 076 all right uh Mr bonam how long have you lived at the property at six Willow Brook Road about 8 years and when did you start the plan to install a pool in the backyard started saving money in 2017 started planning in 2019 can I ask you to talk into the microphone started planning and probably saving money in 2007 started planning in 2019 and decided to move forward with it in 2020 however we stopped and then rest started in 2021 and when you said you you started and stopped what what action did you take so we we we went to a professional pool company and we sought their advice as to the correct procedure to to get the pool and then the co pandemic happened and we decided to stop uh you run a small business and as a result we were concerned about the perception if we had to thato of employees or something like that what that would say with us putting pool into our house so we Ted the idea for about a year and then we decide to move forward and I'd like to show you or for the board show you a proposed pool plan that I'm marking as A1 do you have a copy of the proposed I believe I didn't see one I do not yeah understand I could you have a bigger one okay Chris do you have that I'm trying to see he has to leave the C was in the title box it's fruitful for us to see it I understand don't have it but this is I believe it was this is was submitted for permit to the Bur pill okay so it's for reference point the deviations I would say for the record that is A1 Mr B are you familiar with this plan I am the reference say a one yes um now in terms of this plan is this the plan that ultimately was built in terms of pool no it's not um can you describe the differences between what is being shown on the proposed pool plan and and the current site conditions well the orientation of the pool is actually clipped where so that the steps which appear here on the plan are actually around here um from that it's the the differences as far as the distances to the set regarding the setback and whatnot now do you know how the distances came to be how it became different than what's on the proposed pool plan all of the distances were established by the pool contract and so as a result of the pool being installed in the wrong place what happened as a result of the pool being in in the place would have well we weren't able to complete the process as far asor uh essentially the the entire process and the entire process itself was was lengthy again we expected to have this by the end of the first summer it w up going into a second year um we hired all of the professionals that the sub that the pool contractor recommended to us in order in an effort to do this we followed every guideline that they provided filed every permit we were supposed to file got up until the point where the pool papers were being installed and that's when we received the call we were told that we were in violation we immediately took pause and and thought what is it that we're doing here we had no idea that we were dealing with this this type of situation that we were in violation we weren't just trying to to get this completed um we were trying to do the right thing from the beginning at that point in time we we began to find out that the pool was in the wrong place the fence had not been installed yet the fence was uh after this the fence was installed and we found out how close the pool was in fact to the fence and then at the same time the pool equipment was to the fence MH we also found out that there was never a completed inspection for electrical Purp purposes that needed to be done in order us for us to proceed with the final inspection of the pool and uh that's essentially what we're now I'd like to show you some photos of the existing site and I'm going to Mark the photos um I'll mark all these uh pictures on this board of 82 2 3 4 5 6 seven8 what I'll do is I'll pass this board around if that's okay so [Music] people okay yeah everything but the SAT image but I think we're okay and these were uh taken by yourself or your client took the photos John you took the photos I took the photos yes okay thank you now in terms of the photos these accurately describe the ex the current stock status of your backyard absolutely now in terms of can you describe the backyard in terms of landscaping currently there's it's a blank slate to be perfectly honest with you and has it always been a blank slate it's has it always been a blank SLE well it was a lot different as far as internally around the the deck there were some shrubs that we had removed and some shrubs between our home and and the home adjacent tis that we had removed now do you have plans to install privacy screening the plan is to hire a landscape architect and definitely uh establish some privacy between ourselves and our neighbors without a doubt and and what do you have in mind well we were thinking because of our location and the as far as the rear of the property AB buding Town property which is beautiful we would we would keep that there are no other dwellings on that side for us to look out at or anybody looking at at us so we were going to essentially focus on the two sides of the house and put privacy trees you know not ridiculously high but high enough so that we receive privacy and in our neighbors wouldn't have to look at us either um and why hasn't that been done yet it hasn't been done because we've taken upon ourselves an enormous uh amount of expenses in order to remediate this to this point and we have every intention of proceeding with this but until we have some sort of clarity as to the situation at hand we didn't want to spend any more money unnecessarily and have to undo anything that's been done now behind you um the rear of the rear of the what is the rear property behind you it's Town property so is there any activities that go on back there just de air and stuff walking by that's it um and are there other pools in the neighborhood there are a few pools on our block yeah sure hi I don't have any further questions for Mr bual um if you don't mind just see if the okay the a few questions yes of course um if anyone has a couple questions we'll Circle the board quick uh Mr mck no no Mr fren uh yeah I couldn't see on on the uh previous approv plan uh where was the equipment [Music] before uh where was the equipment located in the approved plan was it it's still in the northern it's essentially in the same location that it was supposed to be in it's just it's proximity to the to the fence that's that's not accurate so it's just farther south correct it's it's it's exactly where it was theoretically it's where it's supposed to be except it's against the setback unfortunately gotcha let move closer um and I guess uh question for Mr de uh so the way the ordinance is written uh even though there's uh language in here about distance to the pool water line uh the position is that it is to the the papers is that correct or well there's two things one is the deck around the pool the other one is for the water okay so that yeah if you look at uh the Z officials letter uh pools approved section 310 5 H is the issue with the paper walk it's quite a sorry I'm sorry here so yes there's two things here number one is the the pool set act the water the pool set act also then there's the patio around the PO there's a setback for patios and debts Etc and that's also that's a violation as well yes okay another question okay thank you there uh M Kates do you have any other professionals you bring up or it's just the lawyer tonight the engineer oh the engineer will be coming up yes okay I think most of my questions are engineering but I'm just I maybe Chris if you can help explain why if the orientation is only what's wrong why that created you know it's just a flipped version why there's so many more Vi why are so many more variances needed well it's the way it was built I think is the problem it's not the right spot it's in the so it's not just that it's flipped as you testified it's in the because I it sounded more like you were testifying that it was like that's why fli version and that's not really accurate no that is not accurate so to be clear there are two issues here the the pool was flipped but in addition to that the pool was moved right in it spot it was installed in a spot do you know how many feet away from the spot it it is from what it was supposed to be the engineer so you'll get to that that's do really what the bulk of my question so I just because I didn't hear that clearly said the first time so thank you so there was a decision at some point then excuse me that we don't want to build a proposed pool we want to who who decided to make the pool question position the owner or the the company that built it pool contractor he just decided he was just it's not that he just decided he said this is not what you wanted you wanted the stairs here and I said that's absolutely correct and he said all right this won't be a problem and and that's where we left it that's a okay we'll get up we'll get to me uh is that all in es case that's the beginning yeah Mr alter uh since you started to testify that the background I have some questions about the history um what's the date of that plan 523 21 21 and when was the pool constructed the pool was constructed later on in 2021 in 2021 so is this the plan that was submitted to your contractor this is absolutely the plan that was submitted to our contractor yes it is yes um how long did it take for them to construct this plan it feels I don't even want to be funny it feels like it's still going on to be perfectly honest with you but it the total um period of time that it took to build the pool or the period of time from when we engaged them until the pool was finally completed is it the time to construct the pool about two months two months yes so within those two months were you still living in the home absolutely and did you not notice where they were putting the construction if you were there every day the the location of the pool and in terms of where it was versus the proposed plan it's not like they put it in a completely different direction and and the borders of the property were not established unfortunately because it give us no fence at the time but we were did not have the fense no we did not have the fence at the time neighbor has a fence neighbor does have a fence yes that your fence is off against neighbor's fence and there and there's also I'm sorry there's also some uh discussion as far as the location of the the neighbors fence that came into play which the neighbor fence turns out to be exactly where it's supposed to be there was a misunderstanding as far as potentially when when this was put together where uh the pool would have been located or should have been located based upon those established lines um so again I don't mean to Rel the point but did you not notice that things were going wrong um not necessarily just with the home where the accessory equipment was put right up against the fence there was no fence unfortunately we were under the impression that everything was within code as it was being put together so I think in the key in in the rear yard is again in the rear yard it's just land County Land so they didn't necessarily know that's correct where the property line would be until the fence was installed and the fence was not installed till after the construction and that's essentially when we knew for sure that there was a problem with the with the rear set back we were aware we we were a little bit more aware about the side issue we were not as as aware as we were with the rear set back so my one last question is what prompted you to go for the variances well we were essentially told that the pool would never be approved as the final approval would never happen and that we were and the town had advised us that we should pursue a variance application all right thank you yeah this is we're my plan is still trying to get final approval for for the uh to have final inspection sign off I'm just trying to establish you know the the events and how they unfolded while he lived there they live there and watched this all happening at the same time um I just wanted to get that on the record all right thank you Mr alter Mr Raymond thank you um The Pool Company what was the name of the pool company you used monar pools and they're not they're not here representing you or they're not here in audience at all they are impossible to deal with unfortunately are you in litigation with them we may be after this okay well sounds like you have a pretty legitimate case put the pool in the wrong spot I would love for this to be over but uh just a question also about the U the placement of the pool so you you had an ads buil and who who who did the design of this pool or this this plan was that Monarch that did it or did they have a representative that did it for you no we we hired uh om and oston to to handle that did they inspect the property as the project was going on did they realize some pools in wrong spot is what not as the property was going on when we when it came time to to do the asilt is when they came back out to to take a look okay and so the pool was started in 20 21 the construction that's correct and we're in almost 2024 so between that time I think Mr alter was alluding to the fact that you really never thought about getting any as built or the town when did the town pursue C that when did the town pursue you well it started I would say in when did the town I I mean going back to the end of 2021 we were dealing with some back and forth it was November before let's say the pool was actually installed so you got the denial letter in 2000 there was a there was a there was a an issue with the electrical the first set you know setback as far as pool approval was that the paper company and the electrician did not notify the town that a an inspection needed to be completed in order to proceed with the final pool approval and because of that we had to tear up all the pavers have the pool wire have have the ground wire exposed again and then reinstall the pavers and that was through mon we did that directly with the p company um Monarch has not really provided a lot of communication you have any neighbors here we do what was there any neighboring issues between the the next door neighbor saying the pool was too close at some point there was a phone call to the town the town called us and at that point in time that this is when the papers were being installed the town said that they had passed and taken a look at it I don't know who the person was in particular that had said that they came by and they told us cuz we were essentially done as far as the pavers were concerned just proceed you'll be fine something along those lines obviously we're not fine so somebody called the town came over gave it a letter and that's how you found out that you have a bigger issue than you thought correct essentially and the pictures the last question the pictures are taken when uh I would say earlier this year spring yeah no other questions thank you thank you very much Mr gri the company that prepared the proposed drawing and I TR reading it sideways Homeland in osta okay are they here to testify Charles OST okay all right would you ever had a survey done of your property this was the only time yeah were there survey markers there when the pool was being installed I know you said the fence wasn't there but was there anything there were a lot of markers perhaps in put there by the people that we had hired perhaps put there by my neighbor who was trying to establish his property lines I I couldn't tell you definitively may there may have Mar the property l it's very it's very possible it's it's been a lengthen process now in terms of the the equipment Council I think you said that the original approved plan actually allowed the pool equipment to be in the same place but just more souly 10 ft in 10t in that's a big difference so it was the plan said it was 10 supposed to be 10 ft in and it ended up being no mhm correct and I think where that came about is the no fence issue um again I think did the contractor install equipment yes um and you found out that it was in the not 10 ft up in at what point at the second the fence went up and when when the fence went up and conceptually I I understand how it it seems ridiculous that you could live in the house and you could be looking at the construction of a pool every single day and and not pick up on what was going on in terms of the placement of the pool the pool equipment and and the the encroachment on the both the set backs okay but at the end of the day when we were looking out the back at at the house we were just looking at a open field essentially and as the pieces came together you got more clarity and obviously when the fence was installed that's when we got the most Clarity unfortunately and just please correct me if I'm I'm mistaken but you said that when the pool was being put in your neighbor's fence was there mhm his fence was always there that's and your fence was put up after the pool went in it was and how much space is there between your fence and the neighbor's fence it's inches it's it's right against each other and according to these pictures the pool equipment was put up directly against where your fence is now that's correct and therefore it's basically right next to your neighbor's fence well it's not it's it's it's perpendicular it's perpendicular to my neighbor's fence as far as the my point is if you saw the equipment while it was put in it's pretty close to your neighbor's fence it's it's but it's not within that 10 ft it's it's the depth that's the problem it's it's from the from his fence it's more more than 10 ft in on from the from the side from the right side going left about what 12 ft 12 can I ask more question that's all I have Circle bag Miss G just along that train of thought the neighbor's fence is this in this picture it's the side fence correct so didn't the neighbor fence and where the Woodale Park starts so wouldn't the neighbor's fence only divides our property in and his property there's no back rear fence for his for his property not at least in that location you're say the rear post marker where you see there's a rear po there's a rear post marker here where Woodale Park would start on this side correct that was up at the time I'm assuming because you only put in this back fence so we talking about that orange yeah well then physically their last post physically their last post deserves it might so I'm assuming that that's a demarcation and they stopped it there because behind that is the park so you had some idea of where the park was I did not have any idea of where the park was and to be honest the fence doesn't really indicate the termination of his property if that makes any sense like I don't know that that fence necessarily delineates the difference between his property and and any other property and the county property correct okay thank you ask one more question to before the engineer comes up uh I still have to go but sure all right can I can I cut you short Ron you got it the floor is yours thank you sir you you mentioned about privacy screening um was that the neighbor's idea was that your idea well in better times we had discussed mutually doing something to create some kind of separation and privacy between the two of us um yeah you guys did no I'm just you know I heard I heard her say something so I just responded um aside from that um it's it's our idea you know we we we want to be respectful neighbors and connected to that question so you have 10 you have six fet between your pool deck and the neighboring fence my question would just be how are you going to put in trees that are going to block your pool from M 6 ft well that's that's an we we have every intention of hiring a landscape architect and addressing all of these issues once the good the good news for us if we were able to move forward is that side of the pool we don't even go on that side there's really no reason for us aside from when we have to service the the filter of the pool we're never even on that corner of the property so so going there won't be an issue but as far as the the the trees it'll be a challenge I'm sure but we're you know we want to do the right thing and we want to move this forward all right thank you thank you Mr chairman I no problem um all right so I'm just going to touch on a couple things that we heard so who was in charge of the engineer um was the pool company you hired or did you have contract directly with the engineer we contracted everybody directly on with the the pool company provided names and and companies you know smartly for them to insulate themselves from stuff like this as you link to you but but it was us without a doubt all and um you know in in common knowledge of in anything you no one called for a stake out both of the property corners and or the location of the pool it's typical to call for a steak house when you start digging not that I know the pool contractor never alerted us that we would have to do that so uh is this pool of gunite or it's fiberglass it's it's neither gunite nor fiberglass it's it's a vinyl pool yeah it's a vinyl pool so they dropped it in place no I'm getting we'll get to the engineer next time it's aluminum and it's got a vinyl liner okay gotcha so it's a vinyl pool yes okay so it was constructed on site it wasn't prefab and okay um did it grow in any size being that the it switched sides it was built on site did it grow reasonable question no it did not grow okay great um now so just so we're in in the correct World here the the lot is a conforming lot the size area width and depth correct yes so there is no the the size of the lot is informing there's no hardship based upon your lot size correct okay um now with the existing layout that you proposed and you submitted to the burrow um I could see why the pool equipment work at 10 ft off the property line because when you flip the pool it looks like if you try to make it conforming now that equipment will be on your patio oh that's correct okay um and when it was stated that the pool wants to be flipped it wasn't thought to be amended and recent submitted to the Bur so it was not unfortunately and that's a excellent point I just do want to run back one thing the location of the of the pool equipment was always supposed to be where it was okay it was the orientation of the pool itself not the pool and the equipment that was turned and there was no discuss did we not want to slide this pool to the left to avoid most of these problems I would have if if if we would have gotten better Direction and again we know what we're responsible for we hired them so ultimately it falls upon us but if we would have had that direction we would have followed it to a t all right and just one question in the uh the third photo on the bottom row coming from left to right what is that exposed conduit pipe looking like Flex that disappears when I look at the other photo it's a it's a drain that back line yes that's correct and that doesn't go to any tanks or anything I know you can't go to a tank actually but no it runs along it runs along the rear end of my property was there any drainage storm water runoff installed on this project project no Chris there wouldn't be any storm water required for a Pool and Patio installation well usually we we would call for seage bits to make up forious coverage and there was none none why not 2021 huh hell of a year okay um that's fine these are things that I understand I know that applicant would be interested in considering in order the order appreciate it I just want to get the the background because I'm surprised there is no storm order Mr chairman I'm just looking back at my letter yes there wasn't any because they were under 500 ft in purus coverage with the addition in the patio yeah that's kind of our cut up is 500 squ okay fair enough oh and the water surface doesn't count is that no we don't count the water ah there we are do at here no no I got it um all right that's it for my questioning is anyone else before this witness steps down sure just as as far as you know is there anything about the property that that necessitated the flipping of the pool no thank you very much thank you [Music] all next I would like to call uh the engineer Charles Al raise your Square the testimony you're about to give is the truth the old truth the truth yes I do you could just provide the bo your benefit of your experience and Li Oscar porn um years ago I worked for the burough Scotch Plains the city of Patterson and I was in the Peace Corp in Brazil when I came back I worked for neala engineering and I was their office manager aiew years and then I went out of my own business probably in 19 then I went to another engineering to Dam inspections and then went out of my own about 1984 I'm a licensed professional engineer a licensed planner and a licensed surveyor I went back to school for surveying to get my surveying degree and I've appeared for numerous points you brought your office address for one My office address is 121 God Avenue White New Jersey I'm appearing on behalf of my daughter who prepared the plan all right thank you very much yes please proceed um are you familiar with the the withon application here yes and you reviewed the proposed pool plan yes um can you just cribe uh for the board the plan out proposed yes yeah presently we we have the topography you know that gently flows to the rear on diagonal and the run up goes to the park in the back if think it's a county park or park park goes to the county park uh we laid the pool out um 14.1 ft to the St that led to the pool um it's in a regular shaped pool it was there's a little uh area over here sitting area that was 17.3 ft off the rear 27.5 ft off the house and the propos filter was both 10 ft off the rear yard and 10 ft off the side yard so that's what we propos that to water the pool back uh well it's actually to me you mean the 14.4 over here either you mentioned a couple different measurement it's the outside water water thank you um and can you also describe the lot there's a question regarding the lot and whether it's performing yes conforming lot it's 100 by 57 it requires 15,000 ft have 15758 it has required lot wids supposed to be 150 CP which 15701 so me all the bus requirements as far as cover and wi and DEP and area uh Mr discuss the topographic of the of the site um and in terms of any runoff yeah uh the existing R run off ran sort of in this direction um towards the uh you can see we have a site preparation plan to the left here and it shows the runs from about 101 down to 98 and it runs generally CL the back rear corner of the property the left and we continue that same pattern with the new with the new Contour Lin on the propos plan still R in fact a little bit more but CH run in the same direction um and in terms of the where the where the pool was actually built can you describe that leave that some we we fli that over yeah let me this is A1 correct this is A1 yeah let me let me just step back one second sure yeah this was the approved plan that we submitted uh you know as provided by the pool company submitted to the owner they looked that and this was what was approved by the T So then after that that's when Chang M so I mark this is A2 yes this is an as for A2 is photos oh I'm sorry it's A8 actually A9 A9 and this is this is the as plan that we did after the fact uh for the preparation for me and the plan the the pool was split after you know the contractor decided to flip the pool actually it's a better layout because the stairs now where all the uh activity happens is further away from the property want to right and it's more centered on the on the middle of the house um and we we we didn't do a stake out on the pool we didn't do a stake on the property you weren't requested to do it that's that's pretty normal I've done literally hundreds of pools and every once in a while we'll have to do a St out but if there's fences going up then they may require a stake out depending on where the fences are going so we didn't lay the pool out uh I mean State the property uh we had an old survey that the owner gave us was done by P and for the initial plan we ride on that survey for all the offsets well my daughter's requested to stake out for the fencing she went out there she got in touch with other surveyors aelen p and they established the property line was different from the original survey the original survey had an offset of 15.9 Ft to the sideline at the house here and the asil survey has a a an offset of 14.6 so the property land is actually 1.3 she closer than we have the pool is still in excess of 10 ft off the property the uh the P are 6.8 ft off the property the rear papers are 14.4 ft off the property and uh the pool is actually 13.5 ft off the deck in addition the pool equipment was supposed to be 10 ft off of the right property line and it's actually 12.2 ft so we got moved further away from the property on the right but they built it the PO people bu might proper line the back you know it hadn't been staked out there was no offense there the time County property so that's what the situation is can you describe the variances being sought yeah we're having a variance for the location of the pool equipment it's supposed to be 10 and 10 the rear line and the sideline and u i I have a conflict with a 10t that's my own personal thing but I mean it said 10 ft to the pool line um per to me a per structure the filter or stairs or things like that not necessarily the walkways but if you interpret as the walkways I don't know how the walkways on the pool can both be 10 ft off CU that's the same spot you always have a walkway around the pool and the uh you know said 10 ft to the property run from the pool if you have a walkway it's obvious going to be Clos my my interpretation of it um and I've done tools over the years 10 piece normally to requirment uh the thing exceptional about the Hillsdale is they don't uh include the pool area the surface which actually I agree with I think that's a good thing because it's actually like a little ponds I sort of agree with that I mean I have I've had a pool that never have it over top you have to have a lot of rain for over top so to me it's Reservoir so that interpretation we were under 500 ft for the papers so we didn't require any uh any seage pits storm management did I answer the question or what well in terms of the rear yard set back yes um what does that impact in terms of which location towards um any other property well the reil yard sets back to the payers is 14.4 which needs the code but again what's in the back is really wooded area so it's a few hundred ft to any roads or houses from what from what I can see on the maps so the back is well buffered to the right we're 10.8 ft off as opposed to the 10 ft 6.8 ft off to the Pavers um but since we flipped since the contractor flipped the pool actually that's a positive thing that's actually a benefit Because the actual people going activity to be away from the right any any questions for the sure so let me uh circle around my board uh we'll start the other end Mr G I really just have one question is there any anything any physical characteristic of the property anything else that you're aware of that would have prevented this pool from being able to be installed the way it was contemplated on the approved plans uh the way it was originally laid out it could have been installed that way yes no no further questions thank you Mr rammen Chris your interpretation of the pool being set back 10 foot is what's the the gentleman mentioned that's an interpretation of papers versus waterline what's yours what's you I'm sorry what without without the exterior the pool the water is not going to be there right it's the pools the whole pool that as well so the paper patio was included well paper Pao is a different point of the that's it's a different section where patios porches Debs have to be 10 so they are there two Varian is this particular situation between between the papers and the water line both pool and the third one would be the setback of the equipment thank thank you is that all Mr Rond yes thank you all right Mr alter yes um so during the construction period did your company have any inspections uh no no none whatsoever no which is pretty normal you know normally we prepare the pool plan you give to the owner they make the application with the contractor and we rarely get called out there unless there's something specific ific to to Stak out we don't generally we don't stake out the pool so how did you learn that it was laid down incorrectly I think after they got you got the violation we were at so we went out and did a survey actually stake it out and uh as opposed to relying on the previous survey we got adjacent surveys we found monuments and pipes and that's how we came up with the property line on the guys survey I think this question was asked before before but I'm going to ask it again from the pool filter equipment uh where does this pipe run to it's not a question for a he's not the pool builder I don't know that go back on appear to go back on to our property right assum it's probably a discharge from the pool yeah that's what I it goes into the I'm not sure exact probably goes into the ground just discharges on the ground and then she flows onto the county property sorry guys I got it he's not a pool professional and he's the engineer of the project he didn't have nothing to do with the pool construction so I just have to okay strike that away and I think I asked that previous no no no hey any information is great information I'm just going to wipe it clean from the okay that's all I have all right thank you Miss Kates I believe you answer this I just want to hear it again how flipping the orientation and the location impacts runoff I think you said it's actually better for the neighbors or is that just in terms of the activity is farther away the the runoff basically Remains the Same that doesn't change all there's no change at all to the runoff in any direction it's insignificant theous but but the only thing good that it happens by flipping it is the activity and the people running in out of the pool that part I understand but that's that's the that's the good thing obviously I mean you already said this I just want on the record the fact that you kept saying this is a better layout is nothing you ever communicated to this applicant um I don't think we did I mean we laid it out the way the did we ever still tell you to flip it I don't remember if my daughter did no we we took the pool layout based on the pool company this is the way it was laid out originally we laid it out that we gave it to the owner they looked at it they approved it they submitted to so you never made a suggestion to flip it no or your daughter I wasn't aware of it no okay it just see well it's not a question so I'll save my comment but can I give a comment uh nothing stopped me before it's it's a constructive comment I have no problem I mean it just seems to me that I keep hearing the comment this is a better layout you know I'm just concerned that at some point somebody not you but somebody said this is a better layout all you have to do is move it up against the back which is nobody lives there you know and it's not going to bother anyone so I feel like it's just is a possibility that at some point there is some communication about that I I I'm just still curious about that thank you okay thank you Mr Freeman U thanks um question I don't have the approved plans um the patio and deck is that all existing and is the only scope of work as part of the approved plans is just the pool and the pave pavers around it yeah the patio this this is the existing plan a i one yeah the uh the patio and deck were in place and that hasn't changed okay so it's just the inground pool and the pavers around it exactly that was the only that was the only addition to the site okay um hold on if I interject it looks from the the application and then what the asil has is the front walkways from this one the front walkway in the front of the house correct yeah that is correct it's minimal they don't require that's in the front of the house I didn't even look at the I didn't look at the pl front um and my other question uh is there any reason why that pool equipment couldn't be moved South uh 10 to the 10 foot one would it still work and be clear of the patio you're saying move the pool in this direction no no the uh the pool equipment uh is there any reason it couldn't be moved 10 ft South to yes yeah it could be and and to be cleared of the pavers yeah with the the pavers are 14 ft away 14.4 ft away and it would be it would be close to the [Music] pool from a practical point of view if I lived in the house I'd prefer back away from the pool a little further and but but but as I stated before the only encroachment there is the park and there's plenty of buffering there if the variants were be granted to keep it as it is well now it's public land I you know nobody knows in the future um also the uh so if the pavers were removed from the Eastern side of the property from that side of the pool they would also be in compliance right uh yes okay other questions all right thank you Mr MC just okay um it's up to me um the on the asilt we have the side yard setback uh dimension of the waterline at 10.8 ft uh it kind of looks like a sweetheart kind of a measurement not being at the tangent of the curve um how it's not directly or 6.8 is directly at the tangent of the patio the 10.8 looks like it's in a little bit I think it it only got slipped up so you could read it it be in the same spot yes say it's my world too just want to make sure just looking at it okay 10.8 pretty sure it's 10.8 all right um and it's been as builted by year firm does the fence on the rear jog around that equipment uh it looks ever so slightly that it's dancing on that rear property line and from the photo of the rear property equipment cuz you have that uh PVC piping extending past the rear of the concrete pad which is delineated as on the property line I can't see how that fence is not on the rear property well according to the survey Defence the asil survey Defence is on the rear property but also is the pool equipment SL and I'm looking at a PVC pipe that is within the fence line I don't know if the PVC cutes a fence I mean it's it could be a few few inches off the back line so but that would mean that the fence is on the adjacent rear property no the fence is on the property it's on okay that's your testimony that's okay all right um other than that um no I think there's no further questions from me anyone else in the board before we release this witness and and actually um Chris you have any questions uh I do have uh in your original plan yes that did not require any variances correct yes that's correct yes okay uh and the sighting of the equipment where it was built m is that in any way necessitated by any characteristic of the property uh I wasn't out there during construction and maybe they hit rock I mean I'm sort of I'm I I don't have any knowledge I don't know why it was put that close thanks okay thank you um any more questions yeah Mr Al um the uh accessory filter for the fool I have friends that have hols that have this filter equipment for FES for just arounded with some plants or shrubs or landscaping and you can't see it um how hard would it be to move this 10 F again Mr alter he's it's not about the engineer answering how hard it is to move po equipment he's not the contractor for this um in his world he could draw it there and it's done um but um my father always used to say the difference between an engineer and and a farmer it's $10,000 see I like that it's up a little bit now but it's okay um so uh that's the logistics and construction means and capability um I can tell you it's not going to be easy CU they have direct home runs back to that filter with electric the conduit underground it's going to take some work there's no doubt about that you have live gas there's a heater there that's just my two sets um that being said is there any further Witnesses you have no okay um um with that I believe it open up to the public uh is there anyone in the public that would like to step forward please state your name and address good evening my name is Kevin Harmony 123 Ruckman Avenue joining property uh eastbound side just got to swear one Qui sir raise your right hand please can you swear the testimony you're about to give is the the uh anyway Mr Cel question for you um when you said the paving stone patio where is the waterline defined at the end of that pavingstone patio or actual waterline in the pool like for the variant the difference from the fence when we when we measure to the water line we user the coping the stone the cing goes around the pool yes okay so extension of the I'm sorry the water side face of the coping okay uh in regards to a comment that was made about Ing we had our survey done by a and fury prior to this for other work um and after speaking with the home owner she informed us that our fence was 16 to 18 in over on their property line so we resurveyed we have a receipt and a survey which shows exact same three pins on the property one's a counting Mark out at the corner by the fire plug and that's a reference of 173 Point whatever feet so that was a defined property line so there was no guessing about property lines so I mean take it from there uh we had it resurveyed and still property line didn't move so that was the picture I don't know what number it will be for you I like to lift this up it was this one right here that's from asina Fury M and then the front there's an orange plug as well and in the center point I get somewhere in here somewh back here is another one from aior and there's 4 in between their fence and our fence so there is it the right there is inches between our fence so that's uh basic layup and the differen is I was just concerned that I don't know why the whole thing turned from original layout but that's pretty much what I wanted to state so we know the difference the property Di menion Sor Harmony than buman please sarir testimony I don't rep your name please we may have had a discussion with my husband about privacy I was not privy to that excuse me can you repeat your name please to Harmony thank you and your address I have it written so I hit my point your address to please one two three rman okay thank you um I'd just like to clarify from the beginning though we're not pleased that this situation has come to this point we feel it could have been avoided if not for the breakdown of communication and transparency and not following of simple rules however I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak it's been over two years since ground was broken on August 27th 2021 why is this carried on so long we've heard nothing until notification of this meeting there's been no communication to us from any of the parties involved until now I find out unacceptable there have been ample opportunities for us to hear from homeowners Town officials yet nothing to this day still nothing again unacceptable while I can appreciate protocol that every neighbor within 200 ft is notified we are the ones directly affected since we are the adjacent property and the pool is installed in very close proximity to our property line this is not a complex project we know this is certainly not the first pool installed in Hillsdale however I could see just by looking when they were Excavating that the pool opening already was very close to the property line my husband notified homeowner no response installation continued pool was installed and papers subsequently placed as border around pool why was there a lack of communication between Town officials and the homeowner that obviously occurred and this project to continue knowing full well that non-conforming issues existed this is a step-by-step process Town notified at completion of each phase and comes to inspect this obviously was not the case and did not occur with regard to this particular project I would like to know how this discrepancy came about regrettably the negative results have been several first and foremost an uncomfortable and unfortunate situation between neighbors has occurred which I do not believe had happen secondly indirectly related to the installation of the pool as my husband stated we had to incur the unexpected and unnecessary expense of having our property res surveyed as non-communication continued the subject was never addressed and no explanations nor apolog apologies extended at this point our question is simple Where Do We Go From Here what are the options going forward our two major points of concern are that we wish do we do not wish any repercussions of this situation to impede Us in any way if and when the time comes to sell our property also from a legal standpoint we do not want to be held liable in any way as a result of these circumstances we want to be preemptive and not wait until that time is upon us and and then encounter unresolved problems therefore at the conclusion and when hopefully positive end results of this situation are reached we are requesting at a written statement be forward to us whether that be from planning or zoning or whoever the appropriate parties may be as a final note I just wanted to um say in the documents that I saw online um I believe submitted from the attorney this was saying that the contractor was at full we were told when we spoke to Mr loer when we were notified of this meeting that this was the homeowner that deviated not the contractor from the original plan so thank you thank you thank you Mr chairman I'd also like to say I appreciate this lady saying about having it flipped that was my question I just find that it's so close to our property line there was other areas in the backyard that could have sufficed and I don't I just from the beginning I wasn't too happy about it and I did say that to the homos they stated that to them okay thank you for letting us know thank you chairman yeah have full transparency I do know the um the testimony of Mr uh Hartman I didn't realize he was in the audience uh I just want to make sure that the attorney is I don't see that as a a reason for accusal thank you I just want to make sure everybody knew that that we knew person Mr Harman I don't know his white bud no I'm okay it's we know everybody thank you um that being said um just to address the Su uh when it comes to uh the the checks and balances when someone pulls out a permit um this application didn't need a variance therefore there is no engineering review post application in construction start there um if you do something where you need something like a variance there's an as build that you do after the fact that they had to get one was was because um there was some sort of complaint and they they were uh requested to do so so uh in a typical uh application that doesn't need variances it's it's actually very smooth sailing and there shouldn't have to be any um any deviations because you submitted a plan it's once they realize that in fact that the stairs are on the wrong side of the pool it's especially with a a natural shape pool it's not like it's a rectangle U that could be a situation where you don't really realize until the you look closely at it so um from the burrow standpoint uh all the sub codes included did their job but when it comes to the engineering view that is basically done at the beginning of the project and they are not required or on retainer to do so at the end of the project unless there is a variance application and Chris or my attorney can can validate that but I'm pretty sure that's the case so when something has a clear through permit and is approved it it should go the course of that it is and it is unfortunate that neighbors are um involved in this and I get it just for the record you are this is your rear yard facing them correct you are you're fronting Ruckman s so your addess is Ruckman but you are okay that's I'm just want to make sure because your address was rman so you it is side yard to side yard it's not re yard looking at this pool okay just want part the side but our backyard it's elevated that does look right down into the okay I just want to get the basis of which so it's your sidey yard affected by the location of this pool on its side yard okay just want to get that um with that uh I'll entertain the board with any comments uh to come up with a motion to approve or deny the variances that are listed in front of us um and I'll Circle the board if there's any one that wants to throw any commentary out of this so start with John is based upon my personal experience with the exact same situation in another town which I represented the owners just like uh their Engineers representing u in the other community the solution was they told them just chop the deck off that's in violation that's what they did and and yes it's a little awkward but so be it that's how we we mitigated the violation to step back to the deck so that's that's for one of the issues I think the that's yeah I think the overstanding one is um you know stating that it's not used properly currently but it's still not your property and then there's pool equipment right up to it especially heater a gas power heater if I'm assuming it's a gas power heater okay all right um Mr fredman not John uh no further questions no any commentary for the board of what your your analysis is with this uh no okay you got it this case this is like final comment before we go commentary yeah I mean to me it's like this is we need to mitigate this as much as we can to get this as close to the the you know being in code being compliant because who knows what happened we can't be speculative we just need to try to um amend this as much as we can in my opinion reasonably Mr alter yeah it's it's a bit upsetting to hear the nav's testimony contradicting some of the testimony we heard from the owner as far as when and how they knew what was going on and I'm I'm trying in my mind to come to grips with all of that right now and see a viable way to make this right but uh I'm having a little hard now that's it Mr Ron thank you um yeah it's kind of kind of hard in a small town like this to have neighbors arguing with each other and trying to come up with a solution to make everyone happy is kind of tough and that's kind of what we're faced with but saying that um I'd like Chris you know you chop down a deck or you chop down half a deck and you do what you can to try to mitigate that problem so as far as a solution or what I would think would be something that U should be considered um I have a pool and I had a similar situation so what we did was similar to what Chris said so we took off some of our patio and we used the coping as our end portion of our sitting area in that particular side of the pool and it actually worked out great we put a lot of landscaping in it covered up the neighbor and it actually worked out better than having chairs next to a fence uh on the side of my property so that's certainly one one suggestion that I would have um and it's not as bad as you think on once it gets done if it's done right the second one um I think Seth uh my colleague said about the heater or where Ed said about the heater um what I would suggest did it at my house also is to move the heater it's going to be expense but it's going to try to make the neighbors a little bit happier so to take that and move that within compliance of the um of the ordinance I think would be another solution to this problem so you just you just eliminate two variances you need as far as the pool being too close waterline that one I can't really make any suggestions on the pools in the ground but the other two I think that if you talk to your your your um the applicant maybe he could be agreeable and I think that would be a solution that would maybe not everybody like to do but maybe it would be helpful to have it done and kind of make everyone happy other than that uh I appreciate the testimony on both of your parts if you don't mind Mr chairman you want to take a minute to I would like to take a minute to speak with my client and possibly ask for uh to carry this so that we can group back I've we've heard all the comments I want to speak to my client about this and to see you know um whether there's some things that can be done um so if you don't mind uh I mean it's it's up to you guys if you withraw and car um would you like to hear the rest of the commentary before you yes please okay uh Mr GRE I appreciate that sorry I didn't know you were I'm sorry I was hiding I was hiding in the corner tuck down uh no I I agree with the sentiment about uh mitigation I I I think the police who of the equipment is fairly egregious and there was an existing fence there and I think it could have been Sur what the back property line was and this is right up against it so I you know my comments my opinion is that would need to be moved and that the mitigation seems to make sense fortunately it sounds like the pool itself the water line is 10 ft off of the you know this compliance really just the pavers we're talking about and in the equipment so it seems like it's something that hopefully should be able to be resolved and maybe outside the perview of what I should be saying but hopefully after the situation is amili orated the neighborly relation Ship Won't Be stream be Hest thanks can I ask question am I allow to ask a question of the neighbors of the neighbors oh I think that's we're not really here to uh ask them any questions I'm sorry okay right um a quick question I have for Chris uh I know keep talking about the waterline Dimension is the coping 12 in deep and does that count with of the coping the depth the backst from B no to rear of yes so that would make it within 10 make 9. like would be 10 foot yes okay just CU if this resolution if it goes in the favor of the pool and that's saying you know we just have to make sure that all those kind of comments are done uh appropriately because you know we're looking to help out where we can uh not be outrageous but um but we also can't have something standing where uh a patio grows back after a year or two mhm yeah just because they magically grow up [Laughter] papers it's a it's a paper based one so it's probably 10 to 12 Mr Freeman you have a comment yeah um I I don't believe I heard of any hardship mentioned I guess the hardship is that it is existing right that's the only hardship it's a self-imposed hardship yeah right I just want to make that clear um and then it it would also be possible to build this to modify this to be compliant it seems uh by moving the equipment and moving some pavers um yeah yes it it seems all testimony has pointed in that direction that it is EAS um did you still want to take a minut with your client before we go for a motion I do okay please uh we'll take a 5 minute recess uh the time now is n nope that clock is wrong I think it is 8:52 we will reconvene here at we'll say sorry got excited okay you're good I so excited we have returned the time is now 9:01 p.m. T please do a roll chairman Reen here Vice chair Kats here secretary Raymond here Mr alter here Mr fredman here Mr greed here Mr McAn here thank you thank you uh yes thank you Mr chairman I have discussed this matter with my clients uh my clients are prepared to remove the papers on the right side to eliminate the need for that variance to cut the papers as discussed my understand if that does happen that would remove remove the variance that would be left with one variance the one in terms of the pool equipment uh I what I would request the board to consider is for the applicant it is December um so some of these things are somewhat difficult to move things at this point I don't know what can or cannot be done um at you know in terms of the season but that my client would work with the board engineer to find a suitable location um that's off the property line that's there to be moved um that may be up you know that potentially still requires a variance if we that's where you L me I can't do that you have to you have to be granted the variant so what you could do is we we take a motion to you know um it would be a motion to I guess it's approve what the conditions of removing of the papers and making the f equipment that's where leave the loose ended like that if you won't you put it in within the 10 fo Mark then we have no no but he you know they're trying to state that because of the time of year they might not act on it the resolution is good for a year so it could be you know that but um on the grounds that you're still looking not to put the pool in compliance when you apply for a permit to do so so that's what we're trying to see what is if that's your what you're trying to state that I can't just leave it at the terms of our engineer um you know in all honesty we have a reor in January you might have you know different people I I might be different you never know um that being said um with what you spoke with with your client we've been I can ask for a motion to you know to see what way this is going to go um either which way you're in non-compliance so I I could see that you know I understand the pool is in the BL but the Pao is not uh and there's nothing changed in that pool equipment being against line unless it's moved and or if this board grant that is approved paring so if you wanted you know I guess the right way to go about this is you know we can pull the board and I can take a motion and then we go that way but either which way I I don't see you extending this being uh because of the time of year being the the right way to go about this but that's just my the thought process being is I'm trying to you know I I don't know I don't want to speak to because I don't have a pool contractor to know where that a pool equipment if it's if it's possible to move it to eliminate all variances it may be the situation where we may need a six-foot variance which would certainly mitigate the need for the variance right if you're not right currently the pool equipment is on the property line zero if you're looking at 5T certainly a mitigation Factor so the question is in I don't have that information if we're seeking to amend that see for the variance I don't know where that line would be of demarcation it may be the case where the pool equipment could go outside the 10 ft and and you don't need a variance but I also don't know if that's if that is the appropriate case is everyone following me I'm not no not at all not at all what if I can hold on one second um more or less it's I'm sorry if you conversed and you want to you know withhold this vote and come back with the revised application which it sounds like you're trying to do with the pool equipment right um then either we put that as a condition of approval uh with proposing what you want but that could be voted no so that's what I'm trying to say it's it could be voted no with that condition or voted yes but that would be you going for a vote understood well I asked that can you kind pull the the board to see it their feeling on that I think that's uh you have to Council I think it's because motion straight through vote I don't think it be commentary I mean you heard our comment I think you're pretty clear who said what okay you know there was one factor that we didn't mention in that that equipment makes noise and the fact that it's so close to the property line uh I personally would prefer to see it move back from the Navy is as far as possible right uh to avoid the noise issue I don't know how many decms it makes I know from experience that that equipment makes a lot of noise when it's used when the filter is on understood Bas their the equipment is 12.2 ft from the side yard it only has to be 10 ft so they are actually 2 ft and change you know UHS from the side yard it's the rear yard you really left with this stue which is owned by the county all right um so again if you want I'll entertain a motion uh based upon if you're to propose the pool for to move but that's not what the application front me is understood you coming at me with the pool equipment as is against the rear property line and we discussed the patio I think that's and the board will not agree to carry the the motion or carry the matter for what reason though why why you going to go through again and I don't understand why we want to do that it it's still it's still there and it's still in non compliance um I I'm seeking to revise the pl so I would like to be able to have the opportunity to go back to the pool contractor and to say here's the equipment where can it be move and and that may be a position where it may be and what I was trying to explain before that might be completely in compliance and we don't need to come back here you do the Pao well if we're limit they're oh you can do that on your own okay so they want a partial approval no no no no can't do partial approval it's not going to happen um so more or less you're looking to withdraw in order to make yourself fully in compliance and finish out your permit as stands we're what I'm seeking to do is to carry this so we could potentially amended application so we can converse with the pool company in order to determine whether we may be coming back with a 5 foot variance or not need a variance at all again and withdraw our application completely because we may be removing the patio and moving stff I just don't want to speak to that because I would like to be able to have to speak to the pool company um and see what the options potential options are so this the same pool company that in testimony is not reachable no we'd be seeking out a different Pool Company a different Pool Company um to be honest I don't know my my grounds on this one I've never had this situation where um you are allowed to withdraw to amend your application that just means a new application you I mean carrying to me would be carry but they want to amend it based upon our commentary well they Revis the plan that's getting that you're going to revise it based upon our commentary but it sounds like that's a that's not a new application no no I'm sorry it's it's an amended it's an amended appliation okay uh what but it it seems it took a while to get this project was found in noncompliance at what date it's been a long time okay so I I can't leave this board with waiting on you guys to come back when you feel fit after I I'm I'm I'd have to talk to the the buau to see what um I don't know what kind of jurisdiction we have to say it's going to come back but I mean what's preventing them from postponing each time we put them on the agenda I'm I'm not doing that I'm trying to I understand yeah I'm trying I'm just seeing our power that's all I mean we can also vote he's trying to excuse me chairman aial on the date that was issued from theing so it's well over a year and and we he won't get on till next year oh well that's obvious but um if you want to withdraw to amend your drawings you're more than welcome to I just I I as my opinion I I don't see the the the gain from it but by all means it's your right to withdraw to amend the pool equipment location so that's what you choose to do then we will no no no I'm saying to withdraw I'm sorry I I apologize withdraw to amend it and and submit uh come back with different revised plan that's correct is there concern that you couldn't you couldn't meet a condition if we put a condition in to move to move it that you could meet that requirement if we made that a condition well if I if I may if the condition is that you we move it and make it in compliance and that's what I seem to be the condition right when you do that that's what I'm ask but then we don't need a variance at all do do you follow my thought process I follow so if if you're saying the condition is to remove to go that eliminates that variance and if we're as I said we're agreeing to remove the pavers that are remov that variance then we may not need any variances but I'm saying is at this point without speaking to a pool company I may be coming in terms of a Revis plan to say maybe it's not 10t maybe it's 8 ft which would be a certain mitigation but I don't want that's why I'm saying that I'm I'm just looking for an opportunity to revise the plans to speak to that pool company okay I I I that's absolutely feasible thank you um uh with that our uh will be making the next year's uh calendar and I guess we'll have to have them reach out to see what dat they can be I I'm happy to it's happy to be the 19th if feasibly think you can make the can we make are you available to the 19 to you're going to need the engineer I mean h no don't a new issue by all means you know sorry for the confusion no problem all right so we are going to uh Chris how far in advance do they just show up to that meeting with the revised plans [Music] need understood I will work I'm going to get on this Cent with my client tomorrow we're going to work on this all right last meeting of the Year understood don't let me put you on the agenda and then you break my heart I I understand all right thank you very much thank you thank you well don't you have to officially s sorry yes we have to make an announcement uh got that we have to make an announcement they wave their rights and let everyone know publicly that their hearing will be carried until December 19th 2023 7:30 in Bur Council chamber you need to make that down I'm not a lawyer for the record the applicate to for the record the applicant um wav a vote this evening right W the right to a vote and agre to uh and waves the right for public notice wav the right for public notice and we'll have the application carried to the next meeting in December 19th 730 230 at 7:30 p.m. in Council Cham in counc ch thank you very much thank you very much all right thank you thank you okay next we have open discussion we have the RFQ for Professionals for the 2024 calendar year um because we did not have our November meetings we're kind of behind the ball on this uh I spoke to Tanya and nma regarding sending this out um I do believe uh by law we have to send it out yearly so it's not like we have to uh see if we want to keep or it's not that's not up for discussion yet it's just something at the RFQ with the date of opening it's clearly going to be a January date um trial uh it will be for the the 1st January hearing the reord yes it has to be I'm just looking at the the information that was given to me uh has to be noticed and at least the minimum of 14 days 14 days okay so with that and we did not make a January reorg date when we did our dates last year correct that's correct all right so we'll just have to make sure we lock that one in with the next section um and that we have professionals but we're going to yeah we'll have to do up per basis per basis yeah okay uh T will reach out to all our professionals to make sure they're there um and well the reorg do we we need Council and then we'll open up the any applicants live right okay all right uh next the 2024 planning board calendar Tanya has put in there we have potential dates these have been cross checked with Council correct that's correct and obviously there are a bunch um as you could tell the 2023 year was a light year not in as in a very fast year it was a light as in Li ghd I know um we didn't have many applications so um I don't know what the rules are but my uh recommendation would be you know sometimes do you need we are a joint board so two meetings a month I know it's the the basis but you might want to take that into Prospect you are paying a lot of professional bills and yeah I know sorry Chris but it's just my two cents for you guys moving forward uh but is again my opinion just like flipping a pool so um that being when it gets busy though we could be here hours you know you just don't well there's always chances for special Mee hourss you could always do a special meeting it's happened in the past but again it's just my recommendation you don't have to take it um and also that might interfere with whoever your professionals will be the dates so that being said anyone have any issues with any of the dates listed uh the ASC ones are clearly going to get tossed out yeah why don't we reschedule those okay so Christmas Eve is out that'll be a light meeting uh let's start with an easy one what is our potential for the first January meeting this year coming up because we need a reord date and there's nothing is that 11th yeah the 11 would be the reorder I'm just saying we'll started with that day yeah that would be the reorder anyone have any problems with it okay you got a date moving on to the 23rd 25th wait you mean you want to move it why are you moving it that's no we're talking he s me in January oh I'm on 23rd I'm sorry I'm on thday the 25th of January why don't we just see if anyone has a conflict you know and then just move the Passover and Christmas and not go we're assuming everyone can do all the rest yeah I think it's a fair assumption um and I never know until it's on my life's calendar and then I go oh crap so it's fine um that being said uh we just got to find replacement dates for the 23rd of April and December 24th I'm sure we can revise that for the next meeting on the 19th and we can lock this in correct let do it everyone go with that do we want to try to find trying now I would rather try to find if we can uh do we know the council meeting do you have them I sure do okay great what dates can we not have for Council in April April mayor and council's meeting on the 2nd and the 9th second night beautiful we can work around that and is this this room isn't being used by any other groups right not that I'm aware of okay I mean we would bump them anyway again and we'll have ample time come that to rework that that with notice um what about Chris what nights um are you like what nights are you fee during the week no anything you book is fine okay I just know the meow Brook spring break is the 21st I'll be leaving the 20th through the 27th so you're out to 25th 25th of April April okay do we want to do the last week of April you can do Tuesday the 30th yeah why don't we try 30th is that too close to the main meeting it's the next week yeah or the other option is Tuesday I'm sorry Thursday the 18th 18 another week too it just gets slammed in that would be the next no it's only that's a week we have April 11th do you want to do just one month I mean one meeting that month you know we don't know how busy it's going to be no you don't 100% so why don't you just pencil in the 30th now and yeah let's put the 30th in if we don't need it we'll take it out got it the E next one is what the 9th right yeah yeah then May 9th following that all right then sorry we want to move the nov 26 is kind of close to Thanksgiving 30th of April well we can't two days before with the league issue that we had this year we're always the Tuesday before what's the 21st November November what's the 21st yeah that's the league of leag yeah oh man so that week is kind of rough November I mean you're never going to have two meetings November no matter what you do just leave the 14th and let's leave it for now 1426 you could they could always just cancel the 26 it's not the first one okay all right then we have to do December for sure December yeah the the first meeting is the 12th and then uh 19 19 would have to be would have to be one week later that's usually following week is shot right the that's usually a very short one we just car the new year we don't usually hear anything so 19th good Thursday any problems with it you can take it up with your planning board secretary and from that I believe that's all I got all right so I will open the meeting to the public before closing not seeing anyone I shall close it our next public hearing will be Tuesday December 19th 2023 at 7:30 in the burough Hall council chambers I'll take a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn all in favor all right good night everybody good night thank you thank you