hey I'm good when Rod's good okay Rod we good yes we're good Jim Doyle is about to get on just wait until Jim gets on Jen and then we can start once Jim do okay Jim's on we're good to go all right dear city clerk Marina please be advised that as the council president of the city of hobok and I he I call a special meeting of the governing body via virtual conference Zoom call for Monday July 1st 2024 to begin promptly at 6m Via Zoom following purpose special meeting on July 1st 2024 starting at 6: p.m. F1 resolution to amend the C Cy 2024 budget public portion action will be taken and no other matters will be discussed and acted upon at this virtual Zoom meeting please ensure the city council members are notice of the special meeting in accordance with applicable laws and rules also please public public meeting Act njs 10 Co 4-6 very truly yours Jen gtino council president R the flag I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll call Mr con here Mr Doyle present Miss Fisher Miss Fisher yes she said here Mrs Mrs Jabor here Mr pres xano present Mr Cano present Mr Ramos Mr Russo Russo's here Russo's here president here the only absence is Mr Ramos okay no he's here no Reuben's there too oh Ruben here I'm sorry all right we have the full Council okay all right uh ready for the discussion on the amendments CH you're on mute sorry about that director Freeman's gonna quickly go through the changes thank you director my pleasure um so over the last several weeks um the administration and the finance department we've met with council president gtino and Council vice president Doyle um to try to work through some uh compromised budget amendments um a compromised budget amendments not compromised budget amendments um to try to adopt a budget for the upcoming July 10th meeting so high level um because there some of the amendments are not don't have any actual impact on the bottom line there's some um presentation requirements the state has um of us but in terms of substance um we are anticipating taking an additional $500,000 in revenue from the water utility um I'm going to go through revenues first and then I will go through appropriation adjustments um so we're taking about a half million dollar additional from the water utility um we received a public health Grant um that of of just over $300,000 um we are using we receive some different grants that are going to offset different Appropriations um one of them is a developer contribution um to use for a Northwest Light Rail study um and then we use additional funds as it relates to from ARP as it relates to um July 4th and the Public Safety overtime relation of that cultural Affairs and Recreation additionally there's $35,000 ARP amendment that was used for the gun buyback program that occurred last week um as it relates to our open space Debt Service this was not included in the um in the introduced budget but we received the number from the ibank this is an $848,000 payment for permanent financing that's due this August um and then as it relates to appropriation there's probably 15 to 20 or so items that range in a reduction anywhere from $250,000 to as low as $1,430 um so there are some salary wages that are cut from the mayor's office there is a small reduction in the in salary wages in the clerk's office there is reduction in OE in the business administrator's office there's a reduction OE in the finance office um the largest one is about a quar million dollar reduction in salary and wages for our salary and waging in the health department um as I mentioned earlier we received a grant from state of New Jersey this is offsetting some salary and wages in the health department so it's reducing a levy by an additional quarter million dollars we have there's a few items where there's some essentially transfers so there is um about $80,000 coming out of the Redevelopment line moving into the um zoning board for OE uh and then there's some ARP adjust ments in terms of again presentation that the state of New Jersey asked of us there are two and coun president you correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are two items where we are adding additional funds one is in the recreation division this is for a new hire to handle all youth to be a youth services coordinator for added programing for our um youth in the community and then there is um prated ,000 addition so it's about a $100,000 ad into the division of housing um for salary and wager that was at um your request as well so um that's the overall um reduction again the main the bigger pieces of this are about a half million dollars more in Surplus from the water utility a quar million uh reduction from the health department due to a grant receipt um we have about $170,000 reduction in fire o o OT due to as we're tracking um less usage of that overtime and then you're seeing a little bit of money added to the housing division the recreation Division and then the a small request from the clerk's office as it relates to funding elections that's the overview of the amendment um as it sits in front of us thank you um actually should Jimmy should we have I think we forget that I do think if any members of the public have any specific questions I think now would be the time to ask that and then I'll go to the council so if you do members of the public have questions please raise your hand okay council president before we get to the public um you know we got this stuff on Saturday at 12 o'clock and I've got a lot of feedback to from a lot of people that you know like there's a meeting tonight you know even some of the media had no clue there was a meeting tonight and something this important uh you know I struggle with this so I'm I'd like to make a motion that we table this for a week I'll second that Jimmy call the vote on a motion to table Mr con no Mr D he said no no Fisher yes Mrs Jore no Mr preso yes Mr Cano no Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo hi president shtino no and I would have voted yes had it been the actual vote on the budget just so you know okay um okay we're going to hear from members of the public first we have Patricia waiters thank you uh council president and thank you so much Paul for returning our calls I was one of the ones reached out to you with a few of my neighbors I think it's very selfish for all the ones that just voted no with acception to you Jen saying that it's not the original budget that's what the reason for your know is but y'all got start thinking and doing these things when you say special meeting with the members of the public in mind because this is a very disrespectful thing we haven't I'm hearing what's going on and I heard Jason just mentioned the border ed and you know so many employees got laid off so I don't know if the budget not passing or whatever or adding or amending whatever you doing to it is affecting those employees and I also want you to know I am an employee of the board I was fortunate not to get laid off but this is disgusting I mean y'all don't understand what y'all voting on you should do your homework and find out before you just come and pull a special meeting then talking about call of vote the city got to stop doing that and Paul I feel bad that your colleagues not working with you but I really appreciate all of those people you reached back out to to let them know what was going on I mean just couple of days ago Saturday they posting about this meeting right thank you thank you council president Haney thank you council president have a couple questions I attended the workshop meetings and if director Freeman could answer out of those meetings and the people who participated what changes if any were made based on their comments you don't have to answer the second and then the the second part well I guess we could start with that I made all all the changes that are being proposed in this amendment I just laid out I the Genesis of those changes I can't speak if they came from comments made at uh at a budget Workshop or if they came from other conversations that were occurring in sub committee or what have you so those are all the changes that are that I referenced earlier thank you for that um and one of the other things I wanted to point out because some of the changes that were suggested weren't necessarily budget cuts they may have ended up with a a bigger budget and I've made those points with uh Public Safety uh I made those points with certain projects that are around the city that were uh discussed at length at the council where many council members supported them where we heard a lot of this stuff in in campaigns that these things were going to happen and my my thought process was these are great things and if they were great during an election cycle then why are they not great enough now to put it within the budget um with respect to Public Safety uh if if the city's aware that there's been tests taken for promotions or and and whether they're in fire or whether they're in a police department why aren't these things that are going to pop up in the next 12 months in the budget you know let's just actually includeed in so it's not a surprise the director Freeman isn't forced to juggle and then say you know these promotions are necessary but we don't have the money so therefore we can't make them and then we go through this whole diet tra you know during an election SE season where things either happen or don't happen for the wrong reasons if they're going to happen because they're necessary then then I think that money should be there to do so and I think the public should know what that is so that we could budget you know knowing that all right if if if the increase is 2% 7% or 10% we could say all right next year we have to do the following and and put money aside but I feel like these decisions are made and some of them are known and because of the politics involved they can't be openly discussed and there's no reason in a city of this size and a budget of this size why we just can't put pen to paper and and look 12 months out 24 months out if these things are going to happen and let's put them in let's put them in and and and budget for them so they're not a surprise or now something we have to get rid of something because we promis to fix this road or we promis to build this park or change this equipment and there's too much of that going back and forth where as a member of the public we can't rely on it you know another thing is like even with a mayor's salary like if you're GNA raise it raise it now why why would you wait till after the election cycle raise it now if if you think it's inappropriate if has to double or whatever you have to do do it now put it in the budget and let the public know this is what we're doing and you could expect that but not to do that and then do it later is just I think it's it's it's in in a sad way it's the way it's been done for 20 years there's a time where it has to stop and I think it could be now I think you have a good councel you have Administration that's going to work with you then roll up your sleeves and add these things and let's really account for them even if it's a n If It Means A Higher number then do it look at the whole sticker price together thank you thank you Haney can I Cheryl thanks good evening Council uh just a couple of quick questions um the first one is and I think these are actually pretty easily answered is the the rent control litigation does that fall under housing division or Corporation Council um I also heard director Freeman say that there is an increase in the budget for the housing division um was there prior like in other words was there already an increase and is this on top of it or is this just the only um increase to the the housing division's budget and is it earmarked for new salary for new employees or something else so I think that's basically three questions thank you um the it is for salary for new employee the increases for new employee um and then the money for the litigation I believe comes out of Division division of housing o and no it will come out of special counsel oh okay um but to the Cheryl's I guess second question it's an increase on top of an already increased housing budget from last year so it got a it got a double wh um well is I was actually asking if it was from the original budget was introduced and then and then this is added to that not last year but like correct the the the introduced budget had an increase from the previous year and then this amendment contemplates an increase on the increase on the introduced budget okay is there an aggregate director uh I can get it for you give me give me a few minutes okay thank you thank you Manny yes hello good afternoon good afternoon council president good afternoon Council um just a few questions I am a little concerned with the question that Miss phallic answered um question um in regards to the Department of Housing if that could be um explained a little further because it's it sounds a little confusing it's a it's a addition on top of an ADD addition and and that needs to be cleared up a little bit if you can also um council president I would like to ask what significant um changes is are they being amended this evening um and if this evening you are going to make a vote on just these amendments which you'll have to I guess discuss later I don't know or is this the full budget that's being which I doubt being voted on this evening those are three very important questions as well as the department of um the health department um I heard that there were decreases is the decrease in Personnel or decrease in services for for that department because I believe is that department the one that um works with um uh in tandem with senior Ser services and such um could you answer some of those questions before I end my last question sure Manny the health department uh Jason correct me if I'm wrong but the health department that was we received a grant correct yeah it's correct so that that enabled us to reduce the appropriation line um the you asked about an increase on the increase the introduced budget had an increase in salary and wages for division of housing but we increased that to allow for a new employee in that department and what was your other question oh and this we're voting on amendments we're not voting on the actual budget tonight these are the budget amendments um council president just to answer Cheryl's question on the aggregate last year the adopted budget salary and wages in division of housing was $390,000 this is uh contemplating $487,000 and keep in mind that includes a pro rated increase on this amendment so I believe the request was about $200,000 because we're already at July 1st this is a pro it's pro rated on at $200,000 so you'll really see closer to $600,000 in next year's budget if the if it Remains the Same thank you president just let just let me finish and then I'll let you in Mike thank you sure okay you done sorry okay no I'm sorry Council uh president counc president Mr r i i do you didn't answer what is the significant change in in these amendments and also um I heard that the uh safety um uh the police which would be this uh uh I can't get the word out now but um I would like to know is there any decreases in the fire and police um due to the fact that they usually come within budget is is that being changed today as well and what would be the amounts of that and as well as this this youth uh coordinator what is why why is that person being hired and what is the amount more or less I don't need to know the salary but more or less that we are going to invest in that one and that would be it thank that would be it counc president the the youth coordinator uh addition in this budget is $35,000 and the there's a reduction in the over timeline for the fire department of $170,000 as we are seeing uh the need for overtime not uh as dire as it was at the beginning of the year moving towards the end of the year so we feel confident that we can make a small reduction there yeah and I think the biggest dollar amount in this budget the biggest dollar amount change was the water utility taking 500,000 I think that was the largest one taking half a million water utility um and the and the um the $35,000 for the Youth coordinator is ated for half of the year so it's it it's a 70 roughly ,000 salaried position that is only having to be funded for six months so council president yeah I just want I just want to make sure that uh Manny understood although this is just voting on the amendments to the budget if it does pass tonight and barring any issues from the state this will be the final vote on the budget uh it's not like we come back and we vote again on it and think that's approved here tonight becomes the final amendments that'll be submitted to the state and then if the state uh is in agreement with it the budget's passed so I just want to make sure we understand that that because I know he he alluded to another vote after tonight no we vote on it again on July 10th on the actual we have a full hearing on July 10th and it can change you know this this is not the final vote the state has already actually approved this correct Jason d correct in in form correct this amendment but then we have to vote on the budget itself so we got the word from the state already Yes before we vote on an amendment we get approval from the state correct and then sorry but I don't understand that I don't understand that timing how how does the state know what the what the amendment is before we vote on it no we the proposed amendments you have to get from the state on the proposed amendments prior to voting on them I I'm not sure if that's accurate but okay either way but this is not the final vote um we have two more Rosemary hi um so there's two job positions you're considering a youth service coordinator and someone else in the housing division and you only list the salaries both of those will be getting health benefits correct that the city pays for yes okay offer health benefits it doesn't guarantee they will take them excuse me all full-time uh roles are offered health benefits it doesn't mean they will exercise their right to take those health benefits right but this also should be said to the public that if they take it that's another additional I don't know what your benefits cost I'm sure they're about $28,000 each okay and how many employees are there in the housing division I mean you're hiring one more person for 100,000 is this going to be another director or it's an awful High salary I I I can't speak to the amendment I think it was contemplated and I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth who who kind of conceived of this proportionate Amendment but I think it's for more than one person not just one additional person okay thank you thank you Denny yes hi um I may have missed some meetings where this was discussed but as a property tax paare uh how much are our taxes going to go up by uh when you include what the city council is debating um School Board Library it's U County taxes uh overall what are we looking at in terms of increases um I know inflation gets talked about in um in terms of budget inflation was close to 3% year on year so I'm just wondering if we should see something similar or is it going to be higher or lower uh for 2024 when you contemplate I believe the Board of Ed the county the library and open space and the municipality um whether you um whether this the am the budget as introduced gets adopted or with an amendment you're looking at about a total tax bill increase about between eight and a half and %. so Iden so okay once you include everything it's it's around 8% um eight and a half to nine which like I said you know in inflation has been only between two and 3% maybe if you look at CPI it's 3.3% um as a as a taxpayer this seems this seems high and and I obviously I'm not familiar with uh different boards and and and different votes that have been taken already uh but I just want to just want to say this seems High um at eight at 8% it does seem high I would agree can I just ask though it's my understanding that this Hoboken as a municipality independently will still have the lowest tax rate of all Hudson County is that accurate unless the other 11 municipalities have some drastic shift that we're not aware about that is correct thank you do you have other questions and no other question I just uh only statement I would like to make is having gone through the presentation uh on budget and stuff it looks like the fixed cost the non-discretionary cost is just Rising so rapidly that we can talk about a few thousand dollars here and there in terms of appropriation or new Revenue but unless those costs like pension Health Care Debt Service cost unless those are addressed uh I think it's going to be very difficult uh to uh to make it easier on the taxpayer I think you're completely right thank you all right we have no other members of the public um signed up to speak motion to close public portion moot second I council members Paul councilman preso um I guess I I I'll start off here is I'm really disappointed that what's been proposed uh I believe there's a bunch of people in the council that we looking that we could easily get to a zero raise um you know taxes increased about overall like 5% last year and this year is it was just stated 89% um but our residents are tightening their belts why we just continue to spend spend and spend you know we're going to be close to 14% over the next over you know if this passes for two years right so we talk about this the council and my colleagues you guys all talk about supporting affordability in town but we have to stop being hypocritical I mean if we're raising taxes 13 14% in two years uh you know homeowners feel the impact bottom line on taxes and now you're expecting landlords to just eat these every time uh you know 13 and a half in two years I think the landlords are just going to pass this on to renters which were already majority of the council here talks about this and it's going to make the Hoboken even more una affordable unaffordable and I think there's a there's a double-edged SW here because if the landlords start to do that this also increases the workload on the rent office so we we have a double whammy there but I I mean we're sitting here and what happens when the economy tanks you know we're not going to keep Rising rising Rising um we're going to have to make some very tough decisions and we're going to have to cut and I believe Deanie is she just said it you're going to have to cut services and probably employees but when you head towards a crisis you have to do those things like you're forced but if we're doing stuff now where we're just cutting back on our expenses um we could actually put ourselves in a better position but our government is basically following the national trend of just excessive spending and treating the taxpayer wallet like it's our own or the city you know owns that and for me we just every year it's just kick the can down the road Kick the Can down the road and then soon enough we're going to have a 2019 where we have to let 30 people or 26 people go just to make things make make sense so you know many of you sit here and and tell me that the private sector the public sector are two different things and I agree with you 100% but in the private sector people are accountable they have to show profits they have to show a bottomline number for investors but in the public sector it seems like accountability doesn't exist our measure is not profit and loss our our measure is like kind of like what we improve in services or what services we offer but no matter what the taxpayer doesn't have anything to say in it other than maybe vote us out but they're always on the hook and I say this is that if we're going to keep raising the taxes then the services should be included if you walk down my ward on Washington Street you would definitely say that we're not getting Services improved and that's just one thing and that's the one thing I'm going to bring up the city got close to 26 million in covid funds um yet we went on a highering spree uh and we didn't tighten our belts we had a record year in parking this year at 23 million and which by the way much of that funds the city imagine we didn't have that where how much the tax increase would be so sidebar it's it's ironic that we're trying to eliminate cars in this city that's tend to be the major Revenue source so let's just keep that in the back of hand so when I looked at this budget um I went line by line and I proposed 1.5 million in Cuts without diminishing services or programs and found that there's also places and I think some of my colleagues agreed with me that the surpluses that could be put to better use um when I did this back and forth of looking at budgets for a couple years I searched redundancies I scrutinized uh spending and I was looking for some fiscal responsibility so when I came up with my numbers uh you know I had about 4 million in Surplus and then 1.5 in in spending cuts and which would propose a negative tax increase and some people scoffed at it um some I didn't hear from but you know I was asked to prevent a detailed spreadsheet of those cuts I'm happy to share with anybody uh you all have it didn't hear anything back but I also thought of another thing we have the hobok we had the the school and the county that had significant number increases so when I thought about this this is the time when the city should actually do something actually help and that we need to be more physical responsible and the way I thought about it is you know we can point fingers and say that oh one's High one one portion of it way too high or this or that but I'm going to think about it is that you know if we can help actually soften some of the blow of some of the other portions of this tax and one of them is you know by doing that we also make sure that our our children's needs are taken care of in the schools so there's another thing that I think nobody really appreciates is that if you don't cut a budget or you don't be more fiscally responsible in good times when you have control over a budget when the times go bad and you hit an economic recession you don't have control to make cuts it it's just you have to go across the board no matter how much they hurt and that's what I'm concerned that we're going to be in a situation where we're going to have to cut services and we're going to have to lay people off and so if we can tighten our belts now we can potentially set ourselves up for something better down the road and again I am sick and tired of seeing the can kick down the road and and I can't be a part of it and and I'm I I welcome all of you to help me find me more help me find more cuts um you know we vote on the final budget but if we work together we can offer our residents the same physical restraint that they are actually doing in their household so we mimic what they're doing we don't sit in Ivory Towers so I I'm Gonna Leave You I'm Gonna Leave You with this before you vote on the Amendments tonight think about the promises that a lot of us have made or a lot of you have made in your campaigns on affordability and we talk about it all the time especially for a rental uh rent community and I've heard you say it several times on the day but by voting yes on these Amendment changes you're embracing the hypocrisy of you believing in affordability in the current form of these amendments I I I'm a hard no unless we achieve or we can work to get a negative or at least a 0% tax increase and and I think we can do so much better and I'm more concerned er down the road that when pension costs as as Deanie said and and some of the health care costs go up that we're going to have to make some drastic cuts to this budget and it's not going to be in places that people are happy thank you councilman uh councilman Russo thank you council president U I don't know I guess I sound like a broken record year-over year but it's refreshing to hear uh one of my other colleagues uh make the statement that I've made for many many years on this Council about trying to keep our taxes to at least a zero uh if not a tax reduction in the city of hobok and you know eight and a half to % in a tax raise is just unacceptable in my opinion you know in years like like this when we know our school budget increased and whether you support that increase or you don't it's our job as a municipality to try to soften that blow I think councilman uh pres Zano hit on this a little bit as well it's our job to make sure we we bring that down to a reasonable dollar amount and and I I understand everybody's opinions on this and I and I respect them and if you're okay with a tax increase year over year over year that's fine and and and most of you are uh because you wouldn't keep voting for an increase year-over-year if you didn't support those tax increases um but for me I mean we made a number of suggestions that I don't think were were difficult to make I mean cutting $3,000 in office supplies or you know uh $1,500 in in convention costs right these are these are the these are the numbers that we were talking about in a lot of the uh potential cuts that were suggested to the council and the administration and those little cuts across the board added up in addition to those cuts we talked about potentially using some more of our rainy day funding in our Surplus we have the ability to do that um we we have this conversation probably year-over-year and we keep saying well we don't want to use more of our Surplus because we need that for a rainy day well when's the rainy day what's the rainy day look like to you to me we're at that rainy day we need to start making some reductions in our spending we need to start using more revenues that we have in the city of Hoboken and and we need to do that for our taxpayers you know I understand that some council members might be okay with being the lowest tax increase in the county but when are we talking about being a tax reduction for our set for our citizen rate that's what we need to talk about so there's no way I could support these amendments there's no way I could support something that's 9% uh 8 and a half to 9% tax increase to our residents it's just it's frustrating year-over-year but I understand there's there's council members that are okay with those tax increases and they'll vote for it but I just can't I appreciate it thanks council president thank you councilman other council members nobody oh me Fisher sorry it's okay so um I'm I'm a no um I think it's important for the public to know that uh you know there was five votes going into this meeting tonight so I think you'll see how those votes once we all vote how they'll fall there's no transparency sorry I'm in a waiting room in a hospital um there's no no transparency with the public and no transparency with half the council um on this which has been super frustrating um I would agree with councilman Russo and councilman um presen Zano that um I think this was we had an opportunity uh to bring this budget down I think we're um council president and director you can correct me if I'm wrong but I think with what you're proposing you're taking what was a 6.3% um proposed tax increased by the mayor and just bringing it down to five um somewhere right around there and I think we had definitely an opportunity to bring it down to zero and even something slightly above zero um we're accumulating cash in our parking utility we were accumulating cash in our water utility and you know this is the time that we should use some of those revenues to just help smooth um a tax increase so um really disappointed in the process really disappointed in the outcome um um I will be a no today and I will be a no on the 10th as well sorry woman any councilman Russo did you want to talk again uh council president just when did the Amendments go to the state I believe today and came back today correct right thank you um I completely agree with the members the council members who spoke that you know we should find more cuts um I do feel like we should have done that already but I am totally I mean I think we should start the budget process in September I think the budget process should not be started you know March so even if we want to make a new committee and a separate committee I don't really care what it is but I think you know we need to think about all those cut everyone's saying they want to make these Cuts but if we really want to make significant Cuts it's a real honest discussion that we have to have you know do we need to public um what do we need to do we need to have the mayor's office have a Communications person and our Public Safety department have a Communications person I don't think so but that's a conversation we should we should have had two months ago or three months ago I think moving forward come September we should definitely take that into consideration and I am completely open to speaking to any and all of you between now and next Wednesday but I have never run on lowering taxes because I am honest with myself and I have never seen that happen anywhere and I've never seen it happen in Hoboken and I think that it's really important to our residents that we don't see huge differentials in our taxes I think that's the worst thing that can happen most of us lived here for our 48% taxes increase and a ton of my friends left Hoboken and I I can see that happening in the future two de two years down the road and I don't want to see that happen but I am still open you know we have more than a week to sit and discuss I am open to talk to people but I really think what we need to do is move forward and come September have a sit down and think about all like are there services that you want to see cut there aren't can tell you right now there's no service in Hoboken service that I am willing to cut I think our residents deserve the services that we have I actually think they deserve better services but they deserve the services they have um and that is why I am going to be supportive of this tonight but again I like always am open and willing to talk to people councilman presentano yeah I mean if somebody's in two years I mean last year was around 5% total raise correct me if I'm wrong but somewhere between four and 3/4 five and this year is 8 to n that's a tough pill to swallow for our residents I mean inflation's not even this High the running average of inflation I mean how do you how do we justify this to our to our constituents I mean I feel as if we're out of touch with the community I mean when but we have can I we have no control I'm sorry for but we have no control over the county or the school board we do on on people we vote for correct however that's where we step up and we do cuts and listen I I appreciate your thought process that you know nobody ever Cuts I ask for 1% of the total budget if we can't find 1% of the total budget then what are we doing I mean at the end of the day uh little pieces add up and add up and add up and add up and again I don't look at surpluses as rainy days I look as that you use those to make them more productive uh and that's where we came up with those numbers and we found the numbers uh and so I just struggle here is that you know when this hits the media or this hits everybody and says oh what's the taxes rais uh eight n%c people's eyeballs are going to fall fall out of their heads and I'm really really concerned and while it might surprise some people I the the the whole rent control and the whole renter situation this is going to be passed on to renters and I don't think landlords are just going to take this one on the on the chin they're going to pass it on and that's a massive concern every single person on this C on this uh Council has talked about affordability you're sitting here and not not doing anything to step up and try to do that so again I it's great that four of us spoke I'd love to hear from the other colleagues that why you're voting for it uh I think that the public should know on that and that you know the work that I put into this to breaking things down I mean it was hour not hours it was days and I had conversations and it's like some of the stuff that we put forward it's just brush to the side and it doesn't sit well with me it doesn't sit well for the constituents in the first board that I represent that put me in this role to do something so you know again I'd love to hear from my other colleagues about how they can sit here and say 89% is awesome I don't think anyone has said it well no one I'm not going to speak for them either yeah and and it's it's convenient that you lump in the school and the county with our P our present is not an eight or nine% increase Paul it's not the fact that they're ahead of us and that means we have to have a negative 5% uh Levy so that we can keep their excesses down is is naive and we've heard from from Deanie from others that there's you know the the cost of living it it it goes up every year and so therefore we should have a negative Levy when costs go up on everything from a gallon of milk to a salary to health care so if you you know we've been at we've been at this since April and we have not been deluged with a lot of specificity as to how we can solve this problem we it you know so we went from a a number that was more like 5.9 councilman Fischer down to a number that's in the low fours for our Levy our portion of the levy and is that is that something we're happy about no but you you know you could talk about 14% increases or you can talk about I'd ask you to point out who you're going to cut and whose jobs you're going to cut because as you heard even um Deanie who was saying this is a looming problem in the future and you're going to have to address it through reductions in force um you'll sit there and say we need more cops to do more enforcement but more cops don't cost negative money uh so it's I don't think Jim to be that for I'm going to jump in I mean Paul is Paul has always focused on cost cutting we should all be focused on being more efficient with Esa dollars and not taking the you can do more or you can do a lot with other people's money approach which we've has been the case I mean our job is to make sure that we are efficiently using our dollars and that's a combination of making sure we're spending the right money and making sure we're using using um reserves um and I think it was a combination not just of cost cutting that Paul talked about but it was also using more of these cash funds that are being that are accumulating and just sitting there for future budgets like we should use some of that now and yes we are the last ones to go yes we came after a giant increase by the school board so why wouldn't we want to think about our constituents in general and if we have the ability to lessen the burden that we should do that we work for them that's who we work for so I I just I I listen we're going to uh disagree um you know on this amendment I think whether it's I don't think it's a low 4% I'd like to know how that's calculated because in my math it's a high four or close to 5% um but maybe I'm doing the math wrong and I just hope that maybe between now and um the 10th we can look to use some additional surpluses cut some of our group health care um costs and maybe see that 5% get down into you know the threes between now and then we still have another week to do a week and a half to do this council president I just want to point something out and Jim I I know you would agree that what's good for the goose is good for the gander when we talk about an eight and a half or nine% tax increase this year it's almost as if the administration uh talked about a total tax uh increase of a very small percentage when the municipal rate was much higher um that happens in every year councilman that happens on both sides about whatever maybe we're speaking about whether that's the cumulative tax increase or that's just about the municipal rate itself so the bottom line is when we talk about oh it's only 2% overall and that's not that hard of a hit to our residents because the county might have came in at zero or the school board was much lower than anticipated that's okay then but it's not okay now because now all three aspects of our tax are increasing so it's whether you call it 5% or8 and a half percent it's still too much it's still too much and we need to continue to try to cut as much as we can and find revenues where we can so I know that there were very specific Cuts presented council president had those she actually asked all of us if we were okay with those very specific cups I'm talking about $300 in certain line items or $155,000 in other line items or a big salary cut in the mayor's office for what council president alluded to having multiple people doing the same job when it comes to Communications so there were very very specific Cuts in that in that whole uh worksheet and they were very very specific specific Revenue increases when it came to our Surplus use when it came to the parking utility monies being used when it came to Group Health and the uh and the Surplus that we have there using some monies there there were very specifics in in all of that that I don't know where they went because I don't sit on the finance committee they came to your committee councilman I don't know what what was discussed I'm not privy to that my job is to have that discussion now in a full council meeting because I don't sit on that committee so what other opportunity would I have other than right now to have these conversations it's it's a little disingenuous to say that this should have been done long ago when this is the process this is the only opportunity that someone that doesn't sit on that subcommittee for us to air it out publicly to have those conversations so I understand you disagree with it and you're okay with five or eight or whatever it is however you want to however you want to couch that number you're okay with that I'm not that's the difference and and I'm not saying one's better or worse right but you have to be honest with it you can't you can't pretend that the the administration didn't use that very same formula to try to sell a a much smaller tax increase in years past if we're going to talk about the total gener the the total tax increase then we'll talk about about the total tax increase if you just want to talk about the municipal that's fine too but either way for me it's way too much my two sense thank you councilman councilman presan yeah I just want to make it clear uh councilman Doyle that my cuts and the surpluses were minus two so yes you are correct to minus five I went to minus two and my thought process is I look at this as our whole town the school County it's all a part of us like we're we all represent the people here and my job and I I I again is to soften when we can and if I can find 1% of cuts there's no reason why we should not entertain this it's 1% I mean this is back in the day somebody cut pencils and they they they lowered their bottom line number for us I think Council marusa we went back and forth on a bunch of things with some other council members and yes there was little pieces that we were asking for people to tighten their bills but if we have our residence tightening belts we need to do the same thing here and that's all I'm saying is that yes 89 I understand it's an overall number however yes our number is 5% for the city portion but at the end of the day I'm looking at it holistically and how I can help all the residents of the community because if we keep looking at foms that means we're not communicating with the other parts that are building up our our our tax rate so we don't speak to the hboe we don't speak to the county and if we don't don't I'm trying to make a step forward so that we can do something to help soften that when they need money so at the same time when there's a situation where we have to do something draft that that they can maybe come and help us in the other way around so I'm trying to work here together with other areas without going into detail with them and that's why I came up with very close to your not well minus two versus minus5 but I tried my best to go there without cutting any services so I just wanted to get my point there I'm done on this and I'm ready to take it to a vote when Council president's ready thank you I am ready but I just want to bring up that back in April I asked for Budget any budget amendments anyone had with nine-day notice and I didn't receive one from any council member so not on not one council member Mr F call the vote Mr con hi Mr D hi M fiser no Mrs Jabor yes Mr pres Zano nay Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos no Mr Russo no president gtino yes that's all the order of business before the city Council motion to close we actually have public portion second NOP we have public portion it's noticed did already no we have public portion on whatever you want to speak about which we have to have at the meeting uh and we have three people Patricia waiters Patricia please unmute she is on mute I tried to mute I'm on mute hello we can hear you all right um thanks again uh Paul and council president it's just it's just I just don't even know what to say I'm lost for words and you know that's unusual but that's it's a shame cuz it's like you're not even thinking about the people that live here and that's being impacted by this so I hope by Wednesday and then you had to pull an emergency meeting like is that serious and the regular council meeting is coming up this could have really waited and I hope some of you guys get together and change your mind or something but it it doesn't make sense especially with the Border a and these other increases you have no compassion or feeling for your resident I'm done thanks thank you Cheryl phallic good evening again Council um so that did pass correct council president the Amendments the amendment yeah yeah so I'm I'm actually sympathetic and am a resident here so obviously nobody likes tax increases um I will say going forward when we say yes to every bonding and yes to every park I'm going to just point to tonight um the other thing um while I I I do appreciate the Amendments passed because I will tell you the housing division has been willfully underfunded for dating back to when Suzanne hetman was all alone there so I'm glad this pass to maybe get I mean I I have mixed feelings in general about how the the situation with the housing division and the rent board and everything else um but nonetheless it's pretty clear that some more funding was needed however it's dispersed um and and and by and large in General Renters do get the tax pass alongs councilman Pano yes there are some landlords who try not to but in general most of the tenants that I speak to when they get their increase they get their increase search charges too so they're you know they're right there along with everybody else um I don't know where everybody was including myself when there was I I I seem to recall reading about some sort of massive School Board increase I hope everybody does remember that the next time they vote on school board members because I think maybe some of the issue happened there I haven't read too much about the county um but I I think I agree with council president that that the the the residents of the community do deserve the services that they have and if pension costs go up and health costs go up I don't really know what you do except stop adding more candy in the year ahead and when I say candy I mean new parks new plans new Consultants to have us redo the park again that we did three years go Etc look to that and maybe next year will'll be better thank you thank you Manny yes good afternoon council president are you able to hear me Manuel rera Soler yes thank you thank you council president for the recognition to speak and to allowing members of the public to express themselves I would also like to thank all of you all nine members for being here this evening um because you you could have said you were on your vacation and not uh showed up but this is very important this is something that um uh members of the public more members of the public need to be involved and need to put their two cents in because um it's not easy what you just did right now council president perhaps your heart said vote no but you had to vote Yes because we have to move some of these things along and it's hard because a municipality can't work um without a budget and constantly making amendments and moving things around um and and it makes it more um complicated to govern and that's not what should be happening um members of the public and people who reside here and people who pay taxes should know clearly what their taxes are going to be as early as possible as you just mentioned and regardless of the school board and regardless of the county if we have monies coming in Revenue why isn't that Revenue then extended to the budget so that we could offset and hire more people and like prior member of the public said let's put a moratorium on so many I would say guilded projects meaning parks and parks and Parks because we have Parks let's enjoy the ones we have and in the future let's program other parts when we have the money as I always say in all the council meetings why why why so many bonding and then other members of the council as well because we all have to pay in but where will most of the people be after that is being paid in 10 years 20 years 40 years some people are not going to be here all those years Unfortunately they won't hopefully they will but like me a lifelong born uh son of hobokin I see it I see all these changes and it's hard it's hard for for for for members of the public to to take all of this in but again all I want to say today is thank you all for being present thank you all for expressing or most of you for expressing yourselves to members of the public and letting us know where you stand and honestly voting like you did council president which I know you should have voted no but I understand the reason um you did it and um then again I appreciate you and I will have more questions uh next Wednesday thank you all and have a good Fourth of July be safe be blessed bless you and bless Hoboken thank you very much council president thank you manie hey thank you council president um I just want to point out that while many of you don't want to be on this call in summer you have a million things to do we it's the same for the public our time is just as Val as yours that we spend on these meetings in Council meetings and going to speak on these matters but I don't think you hear us and I've been in meetings for decades where I've gone in 10 years ago and said you really you really want to do this park we know the cost of maintaining it do we know the actual cost of building it and it's on deaf ears and then only a decade later you're you're sitting here quing over what you could do to lower things and just listen to the public listen to the public you're elected by the public and they only just don't matter you know in election season they matter every day when you knock on our doors and you tell us things don't tell us these things if you don't mean these things and the frustration comes that I've watched you guys each and every one of you put on a pet project and I've watch you knock projects down that would have been economically good for the city we watched what you did to Rockefeller 10 years ago and we told you do the building get the rable there's a $13 million rable we don't need it sounds like you need it but instead you know to Cheryl's point and to Manny's point and other people spoke is that you're show these pet projects and director Freeman just a scorecard he's taking score of like what do you guys want you want me to do X you want me to do y he's he's taking score and listening to these promises you guys make that you can't deliver and then you sit here and want the public to be okay with budgets that are not in control if you're if you're in control they'll be consistent even with the spike but instead my frustration I was giving you guys a wiggle room saying I want to see it go up because I know there's things that are missing when I see a bicycle flying down the sidewalk at 40 or 20 miles hour on electric bike that's something that has to be addressed that's not something to take lightly that's not something I take lightly and I've been asking you guys to do something about it on deaf ears and then we sit here to the budget process not one of you not one of you brought that up and said where's the money for that extra enforcement nothing we just sit there and we'll have to take the fatality we'll have to take the injury as it happens and it is important I'm not the only one that spoke about that and the fact that it's important it means that if other people feel the same way you should address it if you if you should address it and and a line item has to go up again director Freeman is gonna say okay that line item went up how to to councilman Doyle's point you want more cops they cost money they're not for free he's 100% right and if that has to happen then something else has to go down right if we want to keep the budget flat or lower and that's when the hard decisions come in as an elected official saying hey you know what you want me to redo that park for the third time 10 years no we don't have the money for it and that's the same person that's going to give you Flack when you knock on your door because you decided to approve elor and the demons you are for approving that how could you be demonized in one breath for doing something that the city obviously needs if people are telling you hey my rent's going too high and then what do you do you go bash the landlords because they want uh a bigger than 5% increase that you have no problem spitting out a 9% increase that is a hypocrisy that is the definition of hypocrisy what you guys just did how could you limit someone and you can't limit yourselves and and these things should be discussed openly in fact they they should be discussed in a manner you could explain them to the public everybody wants the sugar everybody wants the candy but nobody wants to eat the broccoli nobody wants to do the homework and tell them you can't have that it's too expensive there's nothing wrong with saying no you just said no to us basically that the people that spent time coming on here we want to see a budget that's reflective of the services to to council president Gio's point we deserve better Services I've heard councilwoman Emily Jabor say that we deserve better Services put them up put them up and what comes with delivering that service is the broccoli you have to eat whether it's it's a program that you have to cut somewhere whether you can't afford a certain program you just have to be honest about it and tell them that but instead we're we're always let them position where the taxes are too high but but the goodies are never too much I urge you please to start listening to the council yeah it sucks to be out here on a July meeting but this is the work you signed up for thank you Jen we have no other members of the public signed up to speak motion to close Mo all in favor I thank you everyone thank you Jerry did you want me for something I saw your hand was up sorry yeah um uh the uh I I just want to know the second I texted you you wanted to know who second