good evening everybody Welcome to the township how planning board meeting for Thursday February 15 2024 Eileen opening statement please thank you I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township planning board to be open adequate notice having been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on January 5th 2024 a copy of said notice was emailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger second on January 5th 2024 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on January 5th 2024 said notice was posted in the office of the planning board and on the bulletin board in the how Township Municipal Building 4567 Route 9 Howell Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits which are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcasts on Howell Township TV 77 thank you thank you roll call please Mr Cristiano president Mr Greenfield yes Mr leio here Mr Mercer here Mr tanhouse yes Mr Rebel here councilwoman fiser has been excused Miss Pike has been excused Mr Carbonic pres chairman Bava has been excused and chairman huster here you have a quum thank you uh would everybody please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance and take a moment of silence for men and women fighting abroad ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you excuse me Mr chairman before we go further sure we need to swear Mr Greenfield in because he was reappointed and hasn't been here since you could sure chair getting over a call so I just request that uh read the oath sure uh I don't have a he has it you could oh you could just read it or you could just read it Bri yeah hi Brian Greenfield do Square will affirm that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of Office of the planning board class two member to the best of my ability and I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and the governments established the United States and in this state under the authority of people so help we God great thank you thank you Brian congratulations Mr chairman can I just I want to just make a quick statement sure Bri ien we have more surfaces available what do you mean more surfaces these things M we do okay for i' just like to maybe some of the newer members may not be aware that if they'd like to have one to be able to look at their notes uh or the online documentation they just got to let you know that they'd like to have one sure thank you thank you welcome all right on to approval of minutes for regular meeting December 14th 2023 eligible voters Cristiano myself tannin house and Mercer I'll make a motion to approve the regular meeting minut it's December 14 2023 do I have a second I'll second thank you Mr Cristiano yes Mr Mercer yes Mr tanan house and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you all right approval for the reorg and regular meeting dated January 4th 2024 eligible voters Cristiano myself Mercer tannin housee Rebel uh uh Carbonic and that is it okay I'll make a motion to approve regular meeting minutes January 4 20124 I'll second M Chris Mr Cristiano yes Mr Mercer yes Mr tanhouse yes Mr Rebel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you and the last is for the regular meeting dated January 18th 202 four eligible voters Cristiano myself leio Rebel and Carbonic do I have a motion motion that's Mr leio I'll second and Mr Cristiano thank you Mr Cristiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Rebel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you thank you any vouchers E I have no vouchers any correspondence yes I have an email from Vincent howerin he is the attorney for case number SD 30009 Augustine Kim he has asked that this application be Carri to April 4th with no further notice and he's granted the board an extension of time through May 1st 2024 thank you Ron are you able to make the announcement uh there'll be no further notice to Property Owners no further notice to Property Owners on that one and then uh I also had an email from Michael Herbert he is the attorney for case number SD 3013 which is badar LLC there the last application on the agenda and they did not do their notice so they need to be rescheduled with notice so there's really no no announcement to be necessary okay and that's all I have all right thank you any resolutions no resolutions any submission waivers no submission waivers all right applications before for the the board uh first is case number sp135 Josh van 2 Clayton GV LLC formerly known as Joseph Wilhelm for an extension of time counselor thank you uh good evening members of the board for the record John Jackson on behalf of Josh man um we are seeking an extension uh this was granted in 2018 20120 the permit extension act told the period my client's the contract purchaser so we were asking for three one-year extensions I by my math that would take us out to 2024 this would um give him the confidence that he needs to close and then pursue this development that's the reason for the delay the properties changed hand a couple times and as an as side I I can I I researched it myself and I looked uh with Mr Matt Howard a site plan doesn't expire anyway unless there's a zoning change Mr Howard uh confirmed that there's no zoning change when I made the inquiry to him it was an informal uh confirmation so this is really technical it just gives my client the uh confidence that there is an extension in place in order to close on the property and change this non-conforming residential to a commercial office thank you and when when does the extension last through through 2024 um well uh the the uh the the the the approval was granted I I believe in um May of 2018 the permit extension act went into effect in March of 200 uh 2020 it ended March 9th 2022 so we still had or initial two years when the permit extension went into effect um so March 2022 by my calculations um we would need the three one-year extensions that would take us 23 March 24 and 25 25 okay got we could really just get two one-year extensions got it anybody from the board have any questions Laura anything sorry nothing on this application Mr chairman all right right seeing none I'll entertain a motion I'll make motion for approval extension of time Mr Cristiano a second Mr leio Mr Mr Cristiano yes Mr Greenfield yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr tanhouse yes Mr Rebel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you thank you very much and I hope all the other applications go as quick thank Youk you all right last application for the evening is case number sp115 jab Howell LLC this is for a preliminary and final major site plan with ancillary variance and design waiver relief good evening Mr chairman good evening my name is Michael Butler from the law firm e Sean uh here on behalf of the applicant Mike I I don't think I've seen you in person in a in a long time I just remember seeing your face on a on a zoom call it's good it's good to see you well the the full body version um so uh we're here tonight uh for it's an application for preliminary and final site plan um the uh board took jurisdiction of this application at the December at the December meeting and moved us to to this meeting um the uh property in question is located at 402 Cranberry Road uh it's block 182 Lot 4 it's in the SED uh one uh special economic uh Zone um before I start I've got a bunch of there were a bunch of reports I just want to make sure I I have everything correct so I have a uh most recent letter from CME associate Associates Associates sorry dated February 9th 2020 uh 24 I've got a letter from maakan Associates uh February 14 20124 um I have a updated letter from the environmental commission dated February 2nd 2024 I have been updated well a letter from the shry commission dated December 4th 2024 I have a letter from the MTH County uh Board of Health dated February 5th 2024 um an updated letter from the how fire Bureau dated uh February 13 2024 and a letter from the farmer advisory Farmers advisory committee uh dated December 24th 2023 I don't think there are any other reports that I know of okay perfect perfect I got everything took me took me a while to print everything and stick it in the binder today so I wanted to make sure I had everything um okay so um as I said uh this is a uh request for preliminary and final site plan uh for a property located at 402 Cranberry Road it's uh designated as block 182 Lot 4 on the Howell Township tax maps uh what my client is asking for is for uh approval for to a trade contractor's business um it's a conditional use and we meet my client will meet all the standards for the conditional use will provide testimony to to prove that um there are uh variances in a bunch of uh design waivers and we'll go through all of that those various uh reliefs uh during the testimony tonight I have four Witnesses for you um actually I have five witnesses but one's coming up twice so we'll count it as four um I have the applicant representative of the applicant Andrew Walsh I have uh Patrick ward he is going to be their engineering expert I have Amanda luno who is our architect I have John Ray who's our traffic expert and then Patrick Ward's going to come back and give planning testimony um I just there's one just one little Quirk with with my presentation I just want to tell you ask you for your permission normally I would have traffic testimony happen later on in the the testimony um but my traffic expert John Ray has another uh uh uh event this evening uh so what my what my plan was was to put the put my uh the applicant on first so there's some foundation and then Mr Ray would come up and give his testimony and if the board could ask questions and public the public ask question yeah that's fine and then we can let him go with this the of of his evening perfect okay uh so then if there are no questions of me what I'm going to do is I'm going to bring the applicant up um we'll swear them in and we'll we'll start going sounds good all right come on want to you swear or affirm testimony about to give the sports the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth I do you state and spell your name for the record Andrew Walsh you say spell as well W lsh go ahead okay and that's a microphone on the table just make sure you speak into it so I catch you on the record please sure can you guys hear me yes perfect all right Mr Walsh um can you just uh give the board some of your backgr ground and some of the backgrounds on on your company sure so we started a water utility business about 2 and a half years ago uh we do water main installations and such stuff like that we do a touch of sewer work as well uh we actually do water work for New Jersey American water in the town of Howell and we do some sewer work for New Jersey American water and aqua as well in the town of Howell um when we started the business it got going okay we started looking for a property that suits our needs um we struck out a bunch but we did find this property with the proper zoning um and that's how we ended up here we are still a pretty small business I would call us a mom and pop shop it's pretty much just myself in the office my mom comes in once a week to help me with bookkeeping and we have about 15 guys out in the field okay so you're currently renting your location we rent the problem right now is we rent in three different locations so we have our office we have a yard with our trucks and Equipment um which are honestly mostly on jobs which is how we're getting away with it and then we have a garage in a third location that has we do specialty stuff as well so inserch valves line stops and um wet Taps such stuff like that perfect so you looking for a space a property and you've been looking for a while for a property where you can put house your business in one location rather than having it spread all over the place correct and it is it's a pretty central location to our the the areas we serve as well okay and and so for this property you're your business is the contract purchaser for for this property it's owned by George Harm's construction correct and they've they they've consented to this application correct okay um let's talk a little bit about uh just how you're proposed to use the use the property and while we're talking I think that that is I'm not sure what's up on the screen a phase one exhibit okay so I think that just just for the record I believe that's a one minute 19 um actually can I can you put up um 820 okay can you talk a little bit about um about your proposed use for the the property so if all goes well well we would only want phase one um and the way I say that is if the company is or my company is doing well enough we don't want to have to build that second building once we started doing we're not developers we don't know how this goes once we started going through this process we realized if we're putting all this time and effort in we might as well try to maximize the property at least on the approval side a little bit um which is how we ended up with phase two so maybe alen can you go back to I'm sorry can you just flip to the phase one let's just talk just gener generally about phase one um that that front building um that that's the building where your contractor's business is actually going to be located yes so the the front of that building will be the office and the the rear of that building will be that garage I was talking about which will house the the tapping equipment to do insertion valves wet Taps Lin stops fittings Associated valves associated with all that work okay perfect um and uh you said you did touch on there's there's some office space in the front um and uh there was a question in one of the review memos about uh bathrooms and and a kitchenet um and whether that was going to be shared because the office space is in the front of the building and and the main use of the building where you're having your equipment and and your your trucks and what not that's in the back of the building but the anten is for that to be shared though the bathroom's in the kitchen okay um and there's no showroom that's proposed you don't have clients to come in and look look at your Taps I don't know what a tap is but they don't come in fut T no showroom and I think we've had one guest in two and a half years in business so okay um can you take take the board through what a typical day uh would look like for for your operation here or in general no here here it would mostly be myself um in the the office some guys would come in we usually have we probably have one crew maybe two Crews at a time coming into the yard to get in their trucks load up some fittings pipe whatever they're doing that day and then head out to the job um the beauty of what we do though is we do a lot of water main install and that means we have a satellite yard like say we're we're running Main in Jamesburg we'll have a satellite yard in Jamesburg where they're they're set up so they're not even coming to this location every day um and then in the office side it would mostly just be me sometimes Keith kogi will be there he's the um the majority owner of the the utility business I'm talking about and then if you come by on Wednesday afternoon my mom will be there too I was just gonna ask when is she gon to be there um what what type what time typically do does the would you be in the office or would there would the crew be out there if if they were there and not on a job site we come in between 6:30 and 700 usually okay um and then what time generally would you be finishing up uh 3:30 with no overtime so sometime between 3:30 and 5:00 they'll be coming back to the yard okay and you said about on-site office you're looking at yourself the principal from and maybe your mom so that's three cars three people we have you know we hope to grow a little bit but not too much so okay uh what type of trucks would be uh or other vehicles would be out there on on the site we have a box truck for each crew and a dump truck for each crew um each dump truck usually has a trailer whether or not they're trailing something that day it depends on what they're doing that day um so with with three crews and the foreman have pickup trucks but those pickup trucks go home with them so six to eight trucks right now perfect um now uh do you expect any type of deliveries rarely the mostly the only deliveries we get are the when we put an insertion valve in we need to then replace that insertion valve so it's a valve and a sleeve that would go in the shop okay how what type of truck is that delivered on that's usually depends depends where it's coming from but it it could be a box truck it could be a an 18wheeler box truck okay um some just uh generation of garbage do does your business generate a lot of garbage or recycling very little I would say relatively since our clients buy most of the material and bring it right to the job site for us um we probably go through a dumpster a month at most okay perfect um actually I think you laughed at me when I asked about storage in the back you said if I have to store something in the back I'm losing money you want everything to go to the job site most most of the time um think you may have said stupid lawyer um all right so um what what what do you envision being stored outside we we stock clean Stone and some DGA or RCA there different names for it products like that in the back um we do have pipe on the ground like but right now we don't have any pipe on the ground but every once in a while we will up some pipe on the ground when we wait for a job to get started if the client asks us to store pipe until the job gets going but ideally for us we don't move it twice and we just get it delivered right to the job you're not going to you don't plan stacking pipes and having anything being it's taller than than 10 feet no OSHA only allows them to go four high anyway so about six feet high um e can you just scroll down a little bit on on that I'm sorry up I apologize it's Laura not oh Laura sorry Laura I was gonna play I I can throw things at you then all right a little bit further I just want to show the the up on the up on the top there you've got lighter gray area can you just explain what those are that's the area to store Stone DGA and then another bin for sand if and when we need it and you you use that for your repairs if you have to repair a road or something when we put water man in you usually beted it with stone and then put DJ back in the trench perfect okay um now you had said your your main goal really is for the phase one um to happen and you know you want to we came here asking for the phase two because you know if we can lock it in we can lock it in um what happens if Phase 2 never happens is it is the is the proposal just going to stay like that ideally and when I say that I I apologize what's up on the screen which is a19 I believe yeah my my thought is and I I hope I'm conveying this properly like if our business is doing well enough this we'll be happy with this setup but we figured since we're for going through time and effort to come sit before you guys um we might as well get approved for something that might be um I don't know how to say this like something that I hate to say if our company doesn't work out the property still has value elsewhere so Mr chairman I just I don't understand what that means I don't either um and quite frankly it may be best for them to focus on phase one if that's what want they're they're here seeking preliminary and final I'm not and this may be the not be the correct witness but I'm not hearing enough that's going to get to a preliminary and Final on phase two um I'm not even comfortable that if we're saying it's not affiliated with this business then what it is um and whether or not we can have two principal uses on this site so for those reasons um and I certainly defer to council I know he has more witnesses but I think the focus may need to be on phase one only well we we were going to talk a little about a little a little bit about phase two also so there was the board had some some comfort in what what the phase two plan was what the phase two plan is but I wanted to also kind of get through the phase one so we can have all of that that in before we start talking about the phase excuse me Andrew are you saying you're you're worried if the company fails you want there to be a higher use of the property right like be valuable after the fact we're trying to maximize what you can do on the prop right so that another company could come in and say okay I can use the whole thing correct are you saying that phase two that building will never be occupied by your company no I'm not saying that I'm saying I guess there's two things and I'm not I'm not explaining this well and again we're not developers but we don't ideally right now with with the cost we just want to build the front building but we want to have the option to down the road build that second building right but so I think what we're all struggling with is that SEC you're saying that second building will not be used for your business it could right now I don't need that much space right so so so what we're saying so what we're saying is that that back building is going to be set up for a trade contractor's business so it's either going to be used by by Mr Walsh's uh company or will be rented out but it will be used as a trade contractor's business and will meet the requirements for the trade contractor's business Mr chairman I'm still and again they can continue but I I'm still not understanding that and I it's a very big hypothetical um you know we have very a a trade contractor business is a conditional use so there are very specific conditions that they'd have to meet I can understand the representation but I don't feel comfortable just so the board understands stands my sense I don't feel comfortable that we have enough operational testimony as to what that Phase 2 operation could be I mean to me five minutes ago it sounded like it could be a different user completely um and In fairness to this applicant I don't know that he has that information so I I would agree with Laura um especially because uh quite a few of the conditions associated with the use got to pull your microphone down please sorry um I agree with Laura especially because um a number of the conditions associated with the use kind of talk about how you know the building is used and how the use lays out on the site and if this is all hypothetical with an unknown tenant or end user we don't really know what um those conditions would look like in that second building so there there will be testimony later about the layout of both buildings um I don't think it's about the layout I think it's about the use so no yeah and I agree and and what what what Mr Walsh is is going to testify to is that that that back use will be a trade contractor right but I think what our professionals are trying to say is is that although it will be a trade contractor use it's a conditional use and it's predicated upon what that trade contractor is actually doing the board has no no ability to know what that trade contractor is proposing to do with that conditional use so to weigh that into the fact of whether we approve or not approve that so so the the the trade contractor's use um is specific in in the code so there are certain ways that um the building has to be broken up um as for what's office space and what's not office space um and there are specific uses I believe that that qualify as trade contractor use um and the building that's proposed in the back meets all those criteria um and what the testimony will be is that we will you know there that will be used as a trade contractors contractor's business that building whether it's used by Mr Walsh's company or whether it's rented out to a tenant the the intent um what we would be asking the board to approve would be a trade contractor's business uh based upon the criteria meeting the criteria that is within the the Township Code Laura you need five minutes I I just want to pull up the code because I don't even know that we allow multi-tenanted trade contractor businesses and I'm concerned that we would then be introducing two principal uses can we take a take a five minute recess on this let the professionals look at it board's going to take a fem minute recess we'll be back at 7:35 the planning board will now reconvene all right Mike all right sorry sorry about that no don't be sorry okay so um what what we were just talking about was uh the fact that um the professionals were uncomfortable of the back building in phase two being multiple tenants um and we understand that that and what we're willing to do is say um we'll take the approval so it's only can be this tenant or not this tenant this this this applicant and if if we were to come back and if there were to be other tenants we'd have to come back and seek another approval yeah that if that makes sense yep yeah that's acceptable sorry that took a long time to get to that point I apologize sense um so all right so let's talk about the back building um the way the back building was set up was um and I know that you're not the professional we're going to have the professionals come up the way the back building set up was to meet the the criteria for the trade contractor's business correct um and uh if you are to grow hopefully you are to grow um you will use that that back building as a trade contractor's business for your business yes okay and generally um the trade con the your business would be the same as what you said before you have about 15 employees right now hopefully you grow um your hours operation about 6:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. there are uh very little deliveries to your to your property hopefully they save money and deliver it to the site um and there's not a lot of trash or recycling pickup correct okay perfect um I don't oop sorry we could just and there's no there's no proposed vehicle repairs oh sure on the on the site no I mean if a truck breaks down we got to have it fixed but we're not we're not running a mechanic shop correct okay then you wouldn't be repairing trucks or vehicles or or anything out out in the site or equipment I don't know what type of equipment you use but it's okay no um I don't have any other further questions of this witness okay does anybody have any questions seeing none I know Mr Ray is uh in a Time pinch thank you thanks Andrew you you swear or affirm the testimony about to give this boards the truth the hold truth nothing about the truth I do please State spell your name John Ray re EA all right Mr Ray if you could provide the board with your qualifications uh I'm a traffic engineer I'm a principal with MCD and Ray Associates uh 1431 Lakewood Road Manasquan New Jersey I'm a licensed professional engineer my field of specialty is traffic engineering have a total of 50 years experience in the traffic engineering field now you're good you're good to go I've been here many times I've been to the old building on preventorium road long time ago thank you all right Mr Ray um uh for tonight's uh hearing you did prepare a report uh is uh dated October 5th 2023 I did and just for the record it was marked into the record as a17 um Laur you don't need to put it up because I'm sure this is much this is much nicer to look at than a than a report um could you just run through your report your report for the board and uh point out your conclusion sure uh We've made uh several site visits to the proper property to just uh establish the existing roadway and traffic conditions in the area we conducted peak hour traffic counts during the morning afternoon peak hours at the intersection of cranberry road and yellowbrook road which is just to the west of this property and from those traffic counts we were able to get the peak hour traffic volumes passing the site Frontage on Cranberry Road we expanded the uh peak hour traffic uh counts that we conducted to uh a design year for the project assuming that the project could be built in I think it was two years and uh we looked at Phase One and phase two collectively I looked at a worst case scenario where both of the buildings would be occupied by a specialty trade contractor uh you you've heard Mr Walsh testify as to how many employees he has and how what traffic he anticipates will come to and from the site for phase one we actually looked like I said at Phase One and phase two we looked at the entirety of the project uh a little bit less than 16,000 square fet of specialty trade space uh The Institute of Transportation Engineers does have a category for that land use and we projected a total of 27 driveway movements during the morning peak hour 31 driveway movements during the afternoon peak hour of course that's well in excess of what Mr Walsh testified to with respect to phase one but I just wanted to give the board a comfort level that we did look at Phase One and phase two we calculated the level of service at the site driveway to Cranberry Road as anybody who is uh familiar with the property and what's going on out there it's mostly industrial properties in the area there is a rear entrance to uh the Westerly equestra tract to Cranberry Road but the traffic volumes are fairly light out on Cranberry Road and the projected level of service for both the morning and afternoon peak hour for traffic exiting from the site to Cranberry Road is level of service a which is the highest or best attainable level of service and what that really indicates is that traffic will be able to enter and exit the site with minimal delay should it be approved and outside of that I'm sure Pat Ward our engineer will be able to answer and to testify on the internal circulation uh you've heard Mr Walsh testify as to what kind of trucks he thinks are going to use the site primarily uh the site has been designed to accommodate those trucks but I'm sure like I said our engineer Pat Ward can answer any specific uh questions on the site layout and the parking perfect I have no further questions of Mr R okay anybody from the board no professionals no Mr chairman okay uh what I'll do just in the sake of time um I'm gonna open up this um to the public for any questions winess what's that for the witness for yeah for this witness only I'm sorry all right seeing none oh oh yeah come on up this is just for traffic okay please State and spell your name for the record I'm sorry maybe yeah this is just for traffic questions only okay I'm just concerned about noise ordinance yeah this is not you'll definitely have your time traffic only yep come on up I'll save Mr cooch as voice for him just please state your name for the record my name is Gregory petusco and your address 20 East Milan Boulevard in Farmingdale in the I live in equestra okay can you just spell your last name for me please P Ru KO thank you so i' just like to ask Mr Ray this now I know we're now we're talking about only phase one approval but phase two is going to come up Mr Walsh says he does not know at this point what type of trade contractor will go in there Mr Ry has done uh his study I don't know you know there could be a contractor in there that might my my understanding is the right my understanding is that what we just went over and that's why we took a recess is that Mr Walsh would be taking phase two using it for his business correct that's how we all why we took a recess and and and read over everything is only going to accept Mr Walsh using that for his business only correct and if he put and if he decides to have another trade contractor come in that is not his business they have to come back to this board to get approval okay thank you very and the public gets an opportunity to weigh in on on that particular instance okay that that is a concern no if Mr Walsh's business grows quite a bit he could have a lot more vehicles in there too so I mean these are the kind of things you got to think about absolutely and Ray think Mr Ray has taken that into consideration for his study I I did I looked at phase two as I indicated I took the total square footage of the two buildings which is just a little bit less than 16,000 square fet and as I said the it does have a land use code for specialty trade contractor so I assume that the whole site would be built out when I did my analysis okay but I think the board certainly has that Comfort level of if Mr Walsh isn't going to take the second building he's going to have to come back and give some specifics to the board with respect to who that user is and getting approval for that if if he's not going to take the building so Mr Ray let me ask you a question when you do your study and you did uh Peak usage in morning Peak usage in the afternoon does that take into consideration um traffic flowing up and down Cranberry Road and traffic flowing in and out of say equestra yes it does the yes and the counts were done in September of 2023 when schools were open weather conditions were good there weren't any incidents or detours or anything that would affect normal routine peak hour traffic BL okay thank you very much thank you thank you you thank you anyone else okay see none we'll close the public portion Mr Ray get out you got it anybody want to come to Ocean tat you with thank you than John no thanks and and thank you Mr chairman for indulging us on that sure all right my next witness is Pat ward he is our engineering expert and he's going to put a little more meat on the bone about the The Proposal s are affirm the testimony about to provide this for is the truth to Old D nothing about the truth I do you state and spell your name for the the record sure Patrick Ward Ward with Insight engineering okay uh Mr Ward if you could provide the board with your uh qualifications I've been a licensed engineer for over 10 years um qualify myself as a planner as well I've been a professional planner um by Examination for eight years both licenses are current invalid I have appeared as in both capacities in front of this board and the township zoning board and uh throughout Mammoth County and elsewhere um in both capacities now we're going to leave need a little bit more of that now just you're good you're good I don't have John's resume thank you soon soon enough right hopefully not soon enough okay um so uh you want the aerial first yeah if we could start with the aerial um I just had the list Laura you where's existing conditions yes please a21 21 okay uh Pat if you could talk the board through um the existing conditions and give them some information regarding the property yeah so and you did a good job of of obviously identifying the property and I don't have to go through that again but just to kind of site things Mr Ray mentioned yellowbrook Road it's off to our West um what you could see here is a is a relatively recent aerial I believe this is taken in September of 2023 of the property right so within the last six months you see our property you outlined in Orange there and our property today is vacant no no structures on the property there is a remains of a driveway well I wouldn't call it remains it's a it's a driveway that has no home associated with it um in my review of Aerials probably about 15 plus years ago there was appeared to be a house because there was a pool but there was some sort of house pool and some activity going on in the rear all the structures have been removed um right now the property is fenced in with an 8ft chain link fence um as Mike had stated this is owned by George harmes construction at the moment so it is fenced in for Safety and Security reasons what you can see to our North and to our East immediate is the George harmes construction yard this is that Southeast corner of the yard and this is their accessory or ancillary uh access point on Cranberry Road you could see that's gated you can see that they have a lot of equipment um stored on the driveway side off page to the north is you know more storage and they have a couple of accessory buildings um immediately to our North off to the West you could see that kind of central to the property there is a single family home it is the the west of us is zoned the same way sd1 but it is you with with the buffers which I'll get into the township ordinance leans on the use and the zoning um so the use here is single family uh in the back there is some construction activity But ultimately we are we looked with the board professionals at the tax records and it is taxed and currently used as residential so with that um I just wanted to give the board some flavor as to what's immediately surrounding us to the South and to the southeast um South is a a vacant parcel with looks like appears to be some environmental constraints immediately to the southeast is a mixed tenant kind of commercial use and then off to the southeast is is another pav uh use and then the equestra development that has been raised a couple times is about 200 feet away to our east across that George Harm's construction access so just for some you know idea where it is and what you can see is a tree the trees that continue off to the east that if you if the board members ever got a chance to look at the file map of the equest development there's the individual Lots throughout that development there's a lot of them we know that there's also with that development how it was approved there's a conservation restriction around the perimeter so there's a whole wooded area that can't be touched or developed that surrounds basically the perimeter of that property so um between us and any real call sensitive re ctors we have OB arguably more impactful uh uses but also we have some distance and some vegetation that can't be touched so I want to give the board some flavor of the existing conditions what you could see here this the site is partially wooded I would say there's a good canopy on a portion of the site and then there's some isolated individual trees kind of scattered throughout where there isn't a canopy um if we can go to the phase one plan please I think that's a19 A9 so what I'll get into is um just overall which you've seen on the on the screen we're proposing two buildings on site they will be phased um the site will be cleared to achieve this proposal building a is at the front which is you can see here on phase one is 5,180 square fet and will house Mr Walsh's business the architect will get into the exact layout but we have portions of office space and that rear um you know fitting space as we as Mr Walsh uh qualified it um Phase 2 will contain Building B which is just under 11,000 square ft and it'll be in this yard area that you see as part of phase one so just to get into the I'll get into the phasing in in a moment um I just want to go through kind of the site layout and how we arrived at what you see in front of you so access to the site will be by a single driveway on the east side of the frontage so single point of access from Cranberry Road and the reason for that it just kind of played well with access to the rear yard what you could see all along the left side which is West is a row of uh a variety of plantings that's the 50 Foot residential buffer to our West so what we're pro proposing there is a scattering of plant species um and again we'll be happy to work with Sher on the exact particulars of that as a condition of any approval but we also have burned that up as required by the ordinance too so to provide that permanent separation to our West U visually and and Hope hopefully with noise um we're providing for building a we're providing on stre off street parking in front of the building immediately in front of the front doors and off to its East on its East Side proper circulation is provided around and through building a so what Mr Walsh you know plans on utilizing that building for this is designed really for him he has trucks work trucks and trailers that will have to pull into that building to either pick up drop off or do something with the fittings and circulate around and out so we're not going to have any jockeying Vehicles the point is to go into the garage clear straight through and loop around that's the um circulation I mention we have a trash enclosure located at the northeast corner of building a um this location has changed since the initial design and submission that we made to the board um and with the planners the board planner comments in mind we've you know previously we had it the gates of it facing Cranberry Road is it was way more visible than it is here we've rotated it and partially tucked it behind the front building to limit visibility from the street and further and it's a little we're a little zoomed out but on the landscape plan you could see that there are uh evergreen trees around the west and North sides of that trash enclosure and that that trash enclosure that that's enclosed and Fen also masonry trash enclosure will have a gate uh yeah gate fence on the front to um hide the receptacles so the main Drive continues North and the rear yard is going to be gated and fenced in that gate will have a ox box for Access for emergency vehicles and we have this rear storage area which we're proposing as gravel in Phase One um the material storage bins Mr Walsh mentioned are proposed at the very rear of the property and he explained what the contents of those are anticipated to be and again I said this a couple times I'm sorry but the rear yard will be completely fenced in for privacy Safety and Security for for the business on phase one and on phase two we have two storm water surface basins we have one at the front and we have one about halfway into the back of the property um and a septic system and I'll get into Utilities in a moment but we do have a septic system located just to the east of the main driveway um and I'll describe that in more detail in a moment so so for phasing as I mentioned we're intending to be construct this in two phases phase one includes what you see here all sight improvements the clearing full extent of clearing basically everything except the building building B and some pavement around it so we'll have all the site access we'll have building a we'll have building A's pavement and parking areas the refu will be built the Foley gravel rear storage yard all fenced in all lighting save for the building mounted lights will that are proposed on Building B will be proposed as part of phase one so what does that mean is we have perimeter pole lights around that yard and again I have more to say about lighting in a moment and and those those lights will be installed as part of phase one um and they're you know wait we we're not waiting for phase two to put those in no the only lights part of phase two is what's going to be on the walls of the building B the utilities for Phase 2 and for Building B can we just go back to that then so if they're all building mounted fixtures for phase two so how is that rear area lit there is a perimeter there are perimeter pole mounts around the the perimeter of that yard in addition to the building mounts on Building B and I I have more to say about lighting Miss Newman but yes that's a that's a fair question previously that wasn't the case now it is the case and have you run light and have you run your lighting CS for phase one we don't have and that's something that the board uh engineer Miss Newman and her office raised we're happy to show I think there's a little more because of the phasing and the uniqueness of it there's more depth to the lighting that we can do in terms of I you know separating asphalt areas to gravel and other storage areas and then also take a step further Mr tanah house is to do a phase one strict analysis and then phase two right now our plans only are for phase two and Miss Newman would you have any concerns if phase one's Lighting in the rear part doesn't provide a favorable lighting layout to be able to safely navigate say the center of that that storage area would I be okay with that I'm just asking is that is that a concern that we as a board should be considering I think so is it you know that's a long distance for the perimeter lighting to to light the center of that that rear space that's why we had that question posed in our report I mean I think the area should be lit appropriately thank you and understanding the comments I mean I will I'll describe the lighting more specifically in a moment um I just want to finish the phasing portion of this just to um so I left off with the lighting the utilities for the phase two Building B will be stubbed out on site so they'll be brought Beyond building a to the rear and future stubs will will be uh provided for future connections as you can see the landscaping and the required buffer on the west side of the property from the full West property line will be proposed as part of phase one so and then phase two will simply be adding Building B uh modifying the rear Basin to accommodate that Building B and then the pavement perimeter we'll connect the utilities to Building B and then those additional wall pack lights will be will be provided on the building once it's constructed and what's the purpose of modifying the Basin for Building B will you still meet your storm water retention requirements that would be the goal yes there's a it's a the reason the Pavements proposed is because we have a permeable pavement system with an underd drain to provide some storage so we're taking storage out from the surface and putting it under underground so just so I can understand it I'm sorry I don't mean to stop you no worries so in phase two the impervious pavement will be the way that we drain the water down but the gravel and everything else that's been there for years will be highly compacted so does that mean you're going to have to pull all that that gravel up Miss Miss Newman I'm sorry I got to ask you a question storm water management is not my forte but I think I get grasp the concept of it you want to have a a porous soil so that the water can drain down that's correct and if we have storage in the back God knows for how long that that ground going to get super compact how do we then put phase two up with impervious pavement that mean they're going to have to literally dig down until they find an appropriate you know soil that will let the water drain and then put everything back yeah so in theory you're correct so as it's gravel and that's why now the D recognizes gravel as a impervious surface um that's going to get compacted down in order to do the uh permeable pavement there's a cross-section and a depth that's going to have to be met and they have to have the requisite subsoil conditions to suit that but the more or less it's almost like putting in a whole pavement section it it's pretty deep that has to be excavated to be put back in let me ask you another hypothetical question here let's say that by the time they go ahead and and build phase two St storm water regulations change what do we do then is is this this application with Phase 2 approved lock them into today's or are they going to have to meet tomorrow's storm water regulations so here's what happens they would be vested by way of their approval but just similar to the extension that you heard in the event that there is an ordinance change and they're outside of that vested period or there was a zoning they would be subject to that so they'd have their should the board act favorably they'd have their approval they'd be entitled to come back and get extensions of that approval um but beyond that they would be subject to any ordinance changes including storm water and I concur thank you for the clarification and Mr town housee the pavement section was which to Echo what Miss Newman said is is far deeper than the gravel section of phase one so there will be overx avation required regardless just to achieve what's currently designed and there's an under drain component with that correct so they'll be yeah perforated pipe Stone wrapped in geotextile all that type of stuff right so it's we're taking the storage and putting it under the pavement that's that's why it's proposed um yes that's a that's a great question so utilities for the the overall development we have a existing 16-inch water main in Cranberry Road will be connecting Water Service to that including any connection for on-site hydrants as requested by the Fire official of the township electric service will be fed off an existing utility pole right on the Frontage on our side of Cranberry Road gas will be fed off the gas Main in Cranberry Road as well we don't have available sewer directly in front of our site um it coincidentally there's some sewer off to the east um a couple hundred feet down we look we explored that very early on whether we can provide a connection there by gravity it doesn't work the SE is awfully shallow in that manhole so what we're proposing is an on-site septic system there was a question raised in the CME memo I believe um about do we need a second septic system for the rear building we can septic system is preliminarily sized on this plan to accommodate the extent of the development so both buildings could connect there's nothing that precludes that in the code from both buildings tying into the same tanks and Disposal field so that's what you see here we don't have Board of Health approval yet we would seek that as a condition of approval and final design but um we're confident that this is generally the size of the septic system disposal field that'll be required tanks to be located and to be sized what what do you anticipate the septic field is going to look like to meet the board's approval because I I I saw the last report it seemed like you had pretty high water table does that mean a giant Mound above above it great question and something we talked about internally there's the site today is being filled in the front to accommodate drainage and storm water management so with that how much is it being fil at it depends on where you're pointing to but it could be uh you know anywhere from half a foot to two feet in certain areas right we're not U nothing exorbitant but to your point if it it needs to be some sort of Mound but if the remainder of the area around the mound is also being mounted we'll say it will be relatively flush with grade so it'll look like a piece of like an area of lawn of course there's inspection ports associated with it um so could you put a are you able to put a a height to it are you able to at this point in time no but we here's the the challenge of trying to preliminarily design that with everything else is we we've already looked at the grades that are currently proposed on that plan in the area disposal field and we're confident that those grades will be reasonably close and I will say they reasonably close within a foot I know that's that's kind of a lot but it's yeah your conventional mounted system at a residential sticks out of a lawn like a sore thumb sometimes four foot Mound yeah we will have we're mounding up everything around it as well yeah I don't necessarily think the Mountain's going to be a big deal I just wanted to get an idea on the record what you thought it may end up being I and if if it was going to be pretty high I didn't know if it was going to impede any any ability to exit the site appropriately and see a sight line going going east no that's that's a very fair question so the do you have an answer to that to the is the answer yes like visual like um obstruction of like Vehicles no it's it's in effect it's ACC grade okay yeah yeah no there there's no significant amount what will impact sight lines um I in my opinion it won't be visually obstructive at all thank you and also from that letter from Mammoth County it mentioned the the boring logs has that investigation been carried out yet or is that still forthcoming because they said they still needed that information so we've done several test pits throughout the property and that's shown on our plans they haven't been witnessed by the Board of Health um because we're not at that point yet but the same ser of test bits although a slightly different test will be done under it has to be they have to that that'll be our one of our first steps if we're approved as a condition of approval yeah so no the Board of Health has not witnessed okay so let's get kind of a great segue into the grading and storm water of the property um so the site generally today drains from the northeast corner to Cranberry Road we're proposing to more or less maintain that natural drainage pattern on site and attenuate runoff at the lowest point of the property which is at the front so in an Ideal World we'd like to focus our storm water management infrastructure at the lower ends of development developments and properties coincidentally here the soil characteristics at the front of the property are most favorable for storm water management so we have better groundwater depth and better permeability there the further back in the property you go really halfway back and then all the way to the rear the permeability really um diminishes greatly to the point where you know there's there's really no infiltration cap capability at the very very rear of the property U groundwater also becomes more and more limiting so as you can see we're proposing the two surface basins you see on the exhibits for both phases so there were comments in the board engineer memo regarding storm water management and at the time of this hearing we're here in front of the board the comments have not obviously been addressed because the review letter was was issued within the last week which is which is fair we intend on meeting with the board Engineers office and potentially the township engineer to to review some of these com and ensure that we have the design that's satisfactory to all parties involved Township Board and um obviously the applicant is part of that but um something I spoke with CME about over the this past week and we have uh we have some meeting to do with them and and kind of discuss these comments and and seek a resolution uh to their satisfaction so and Mr chairman just to be fair on the comment about the review letter just coming out they submitted February 2nd on our review letters dated February 9th yeah so there was no delay on our part and getting a review letter out oh that wasn't intended to say that is Newman sorry um okay and I'll go into parking so for trade contractor use the demand for parking is broken up by internal uses in the building and how many fleet vehicles are needed for the project that's how the Zone zoning ordinance is written in our case based on the proposed floor plans we require 10.4 spaces for the building areas and 2.6 spaces for what is like the the fitting areas or the fit out areas um open spaces of the building so this is a total of 13 spaces and we're providing 13 within the front pavement area further we're providing an EV make ready space in the front of the building as required for the fleet vehicles applicant was looking towards the future and seeking approval for space for 16 fleet vehicles we anticipate these spaces will be utilized by work trucks so we have room in the rear yard noted for 16 spaces sized at 10 by 30 for loading this type of use doesn't have a practical need for your classic load loading zone or loading dock up against either building um as Mr Walsh kind of hit loading very lightly in his uh testimony if delivery of any material or fitting or any other device was to occur we anticipate the delivery vehicle would enter the property likely head to the rear yard stop off to the side unload as necessary and then Traverse around to leave the site therefore we indicate a typical area for loading in the rear that's separate from Building B on in phase two we did that for demonstration purpos Pur is to show that the board and its professionals how the size of a minimum loading space Compares with the rear yard pavement area so we have that tucked off to the to the right east side right there um and that's that 10 by 60 which is the requirement in the ordinance for loading refu I mentioned this before we have the refu enclosure behind building a that will serve both buildings now for lighting we're proposing to appropriately light all pavement areas in the front to provide Safety and Security on site so at the front half of the property the entrance drive and areas around building a are lit by a combination of pole mounted and wall pack lights the maximum height of the light poles in the front half of the property is 18 ft so in the rear and I know there was some comment already about this we're proposing perimeter pole mounted fixtures around the yard the height of those fixtures will be 22 feet so in Phase One at this moment we're proposing only the perimeter lights so what it leaves is uh less Lighting in the center of the yard than what the ordinance requires we feel and our our opinion is dur to the nature of the use which is a fully private gated yard um in the rear we feel this is still appropriate placing a pole in the middle or poles in the middle of the storage yard carries a collision risk that the applicant would prefer to avoid and we feel that the lighting design is is more practical um and still provides the perimeter lighting for Safety and Security for phase two those perimeter lights remain and Building B will have additional wallmounted fixtures intended to supplement what's already installed so now there's a actual physical Improvement like the building where sight lines could be impeded we have now building lights on all sides I'm sorry I I I got a I got a comment on your your comment about lights in the center possibly causing an impact issue if the lights in the center are going to cause an impact issue when you build phase two the whole building is going to be an impact issue I I can't I'm sorry I can't Mr tenan House to your point I'm looking at these plans I need to understand and I know we've got through operational but this is a very vast storage area in phase one when we look at this and what we heard is most of the pipe goes to the site but it's used for pipe and I think those back bends for uh cleanstone and DGA um I'm I'm sure if we go to Sherie we're going to hear about the nature of the clearing on this site but I'm trying to understand why we would go through all of this clearing and all of this area when we get to phase two which in theory is the same business their amount of storage is drastically reduced so that's a so the intensity kind of goes up but the need for that storage goes down and I got to be honest with you to gravel all of this area and Mr tenant house you brought this up before to come back later to curb that and put in permeable pavement is also a pretty substantial amount of work and so I think maybe we need to fully understand in better detail what is in this storage area and what's maneuvering back there because if we need all that for phase one you could see it right here I mean essentially the storage area goes to almost nothing let me ask you this question did did I did we pass an ordinance a couple years ago that requires came up in one of our uh retail facil um layouts I think it's the one up by woolies where we had an ordinance change I believe that when someone has like a phase project they don't clear that land until there's definite need for that second phase I remembering that right there's actually an ordinance on the book well no I don't think it was an ordinance I would defer to Sher I think we we talked about when the payments were made got and and that was in and along those lines a condition of approval of that that but we absolutely asked applicants to phase their clearing when when needed um so I think that's something and again it's was on Mr Ward's direct but just as I'm listening to it and understanding the phase two operation I really think we need a solid handle on what the storage is in phase one and how that's changing for phase two because if we need Less storage in phase one as is represented in phase two then I don't think the entire site should be cleared um this point I think we should keep the area green which honestly to the applicant's need would have less disturbance when they have to come back to rip everything out to do the permeable Paving building a building so makesense I just and I know it's kind of linked to the lighting and all those kind of comments but I just wanted to state that interesting and I see Sherry's nodding her head so to proceed um yeah why don't you keep going just give me a second we do Mr Chan house I I I do take your comments and Miss Newman's comments about the lighting and the the center poles or if the the rear yard in phase one it looks like it would does on our plans um like I said we have to we're going to provide a phase one lighting phase one specific lighting plan with the consideration of the board's comments regarding the extent of Lighting in Phase One Landscaping okay um with all the comments that were just brot I so where I'll start with is is Woodland's management and and again as currently proposed phase one the site will be cleared as shown uh as noted in the CME report and our plans we cannot fully replace trees on site based on what's currently proposed therefore any replacement trees that cannot be replaced must be converted into payment to the township tree fund we're happy to work with the board professionals particularly Sher to ensure that our calculations are correct on the final plans and again to ensure that she's satisfied with and the township therefore is satisfied with the species and the the location of all the plants we do provide the bmed landscape residential buffer to the West as you can see on the plan it's fully planted we are proposing Street trees across our Frontage they continue around the front Basin towards the parking lot as you can see um the front and rear of building a will be planted with Foundation plantings and those have been supplemented with each revision as as a result of uh board professional comments and again we're happy to work with the board professionals on species spread and location of of the plantings terms of signage we're proposing a single sign it's actually it's it's towards the street to the west of the entrance drive it's a monument sign that's intended to be fully compliant with the ordinance in terms of size and setback so it'll be 3 ft x 12 12 ft on a little on a base and then the base of the the sign will be landscaped with Foundation plantings as required will that sign be lit we anticipate that the sign will be lit with um with I believe with uh it's a great question no no I think it's going to be ground mounted all I wanted to know was it was lit it will be lit because my I believe Cranberry Road is a pretty not very well lit so having a lit sign where people can come by say 4 or 5:00 in the middle of the winter makes it easy why the question and we'll specify um the type of lighting all right Mike that's that's my direct and we can talk about the design waivers if You' want yeah why don't want we talk about the design waivers okay and it's a static sign we're not looking at any electronic signs or anything static yeah no that's not the nature of this one um there no no sound coming out of it water Ms water Ms no it'll be a standard static sign uh okay so as noted in the CME review memo there are a series of design waivers that we're seeking relief for and I'll kind of go through each one uh I'll paraphrase each uh design waiver and then kind of comment on each one so the lighting intensity provided at ground level shall be a minimum of3 foot candles anywhere and shall average a maximum of 05 foot candles over the entire area whereas neither has been met so as I mentioned this this appears to be directed mainly at the rear storage yard due to the private nature of the use and being behind the locked gate we feel the lighting isn't is appropriate and you know again considering the comments of the board we've already heard this evening driveway widths exceeding 24 ft shall be approved by the planning board we have due to the types of vehicles and the nature of the use we feel the 30 foot is an appropriate R request that we're proposing for driveway width areas of Ingress and egress loading and unloading major interior drivers and aisles and other areas to experience similar heavy traffic shall be be paav with not less than 4 in of compacted base course and no more than 2 in of excuse me yeah so the minimum 2in uh surface course is required as well so this is pointed to the gravel in Phase One and portion of phase two and the peral pavement um we feel that the gravel is an appropriate base for phase one and for a storage yard the peral pavement has a very uh significant base aggregate because of the storage is required to to provide um but we'd be happy to work with the board engineer to ensure the P final pavement section details are acceptable in terms of permal pavement there's a surface course we're proposing 3 feet um if it needs to be thicker um we we'd be happy to do that but we feel that what we're proposing now is acceptable for the the type of use where those Pavements will be sustain the vehicular loading what we could do is we can explore that Miss Newman I don't have the direct answer to that right now but we can explore that with uh the project geotechnical engineer okay I don't want to say yes or no at the moment uh all areas between the parking and the building shall be landscaped where no Landscaping is proposed for Building B uh does note that we've revised the plans for foundation TRS for proposed building a except where the buildings access points are located so Building B in phase two is proposed to be 100% surrounded by pavement and additionally it's in the rear yard of the property behind the front building um behind a landscape burm to the West so the only other neighboring areas that would see this building and its lack of landscaping is the the two sides of the property that face the George Harm's yard loading spaces shall abut the building being served we talked about this earlier the nature of this use doesn't have a practical need for a conventional loading zone or dock so loading and unloading can take place in a number of spaces but we're showing a typical location for demonstration showing the minimum size loading space the next one is all required replacement trees shall be planted on the site from which the trees were removed if possible so we'd be seeking a waiver to submit the balance of what can't be replaced on site to the township tree fund due to limited available planting area and again as you can see the we we provide a lot of trees on the burm and buffer um we provide trees scattered throughout where where Green Space is um we're happy to work with cherry on pinning down the final number and where else you know if if the board feels that there are additional areas where trees can be planted to offset that contribution we'll be happy to do that loading and service area shall be screen with buffers walls fencing and Landscaping the trash enclosure is not entirely screened so I do want to note here that we originally had the trash enclosure facing directly to Cranberry Road hearing the board planner comments we rotated it and slid most of it behind building a so the enclosure will have Gates keeping the receptacles out of view which I think is what that specific ordinance requirements requirement really wants we also propos Evergreen trees on the west and North sides of the enclosure so in our opinion the enclosure and its receptacles will not be visible to passing cars on Cranberry Road nor to the residential use to our West can you do you think you could just add to that one additional side yes without a doubt yep that was um we were anticipating that yeah thank you Sher so that was so we we could work with with SH to to figure out putting some additional trees along the east side of the enclosure there's a little bit of space there correct all lot should have a private walkway access to a public sidewalk in the right of way we are not proposing sidewalks and we're seeking a waiver from that requirement looking up and down Cranberry Road in this area um sidewalks don't exist on Cranberry Road as you can kind of see on the aerial so in lie of providing same on property the applicant will pay into the township sidewalk trust fund if approved by the board par parking lots exposed to public view shall be surrounded by some sort of impervious screen hedge or wall so this is pointed to the parking area along the east side budding 5.01 which is the East Side um there is a chain link fence along that property line today so what we'd offer to the board is that we can add privacy slots there um there is Landscaping off property trees not even Landscaping I'm sorry vegetation off property to the east um but we would supplement that with making that fence solid where those parking stalls are in terms of the parking spaces facing the building in front of the building um want to kind of comment on that a little more so again they face the building so headlight screening towards Cranberry Road doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as other typical sites where your parking lot is is closer to the road those spaces are about 120 ft away from cranberry Road's edge of pavement and again face away we're proposing a series of Street trees and trees around the Basin an effort to provide shade and more Greenery at the front of the property um further we're proposing the Basin in the front yard area and this will open up that front yard and forces the impactful improvements further to the rear we haven't gotten a planning testimony in support of the Basin in the front yard yet but with any Basin there are components to the system that are necessary like the emergency Spillway uh access point Basin access road and in our case we have curb scuppers and rip wrap aprons that accept the runoff into the Basin so all these reasons combined are why we don't have a continuous Hedge of or planting scheme around either side of the Basin um if we did these features would break it up and it would possibly appear disjointed and not continuous um the next one is along each Street line a 5 foot strip measured from the RightWay shall be provided suitably landscaped except for necessary walks and accessways so similar to what I just said we have an emergency Spillway on the south side of that Basin um and that's for emergency purposes only and that is really between the street trees there where we're we're not supposed to plant those because in the event of emergency we don't want any of that to be washed away so that's meant to be green space a green burm we'll say that's all I have Mike I think I think you got most of the the waivers the only thing I think I had in here uh and I may have missed it when I was talking to to the applicant um um there there is there there a rarro ties uh rarro ties around the back portion of the property yeah it was noted that um curbing is not provided so phase one I'll start with that we're proposing railroad tie or Timber tie curbing around the gravel to provide a hard Edge um that will be replaced with phase two because peral Pavement in the BMP manual requires concrete curb flush concrete curb at a minimum or raised around the perimeter so phase two will have concrete curb around that pavement but we do provide the curb to provide a hard Edge on on all of the pavement yeah ballards is there ballards for the headon parking and in front of the building yes yes and what are that I'm used to and what are the what are the depths and and the grade uh from going into the basins it's a great question so let me just they're shallow they're shallower than typical this Chan house but I'll give you the real real numbers so for the front Basin um the just bear with me one moment over the front Basin the bottom is 85.2 and the spillway is 87 and then the the top of BM is 88 so about 3 feet deep in the front and then the in the rear or the middle I should say it's about 2 and 1 half to 3T deep so they're they're relatively shallow considering there's been there are deeper Basin out there and and I think you also uh had produced a turning movement plan um you could just talk quickly about that so that the board is comfortable that that trucks Mr chair before we move over to that can uh we just go back to a couple uh ones that you had mentioned um to J with the 5ot strip um I get that you need uh that Spillway area but um between the street trees that you have you could provide you know some sort of landscaping along the frontage Sherry is your mic on yeah you want me to repeat it no I okay feel better for coming and I'm I'm assuming you looking for some type of shrub um it it could be shrub and ornamental grass you know just something to have some sort of Street scape over there um also I'd like to you know do a site meeting out there because I do think a lot of that buffer is is good to keep and rather than take down and plant five foot trees um including there might be a few Oaks towards Cranberry Road that could be saved too that's in the buffer area we'd be happy to meet on site yes absolutely so Mr chair kind of as was indicated earlier I believe uh by Mr ward he knows he has to meet with us relative to drainage I would also suggest that this meeting with Shar Ur also prior so that you have a realistic picture of that buffer um again I think we dealt with the similar on the ket's application you'll remember we wanted to make sure that Sher and Mr pascon on that one went out met so that we knew where the the saving the tree save area was going to be and what was going to be supplemented Pat you're good with that absolutely yeah we've done it in the past okay perfect okay um Mike was able to discuss with the applicant about the lighting oh Mr Tanana house was that that's well what we're going to what we we're open to or the applicant I should say is open to is to provide a fixture a pole mounted fixture or fixtures in the middle of that um phase one yard area where and you where if if there was a phase one lighting plan you would see that there is a dark spot in the center there um we'll provide that to provide a even spread throughout the yard okay again we have to provide the board and its professionals the phase one plan so to demonstrate um or the extent of relief still needed if needed for lighting great okay um I don't I think you hit I think you hit all of the things that I had for you I don't know if the board had any questions for Mr Ward or the board's professionals does anybody have any questions for Pat what is the what's the time frame between phase one and phase two I don't have the difference yeah I don't have a I don't have a I don't have an answer for that because uh but I I'll leave it to Mike to answer you know I mean it's it's it's the answer is it depends um so there is no right now there is no like you know you could you have some developers who come in you know they'll say phase two is going to happen in four years phase three is going to happen in whatever whatever whatever time this is really consistent contingent upon how his business is running um as you heard him say you know his main goal really is to kind of get that number one building up and and if everything's going well get that number number two building up and he wanted to come in and say Here's what both are going to look like to to the board um and you know I may not ever get to that phase two but if I do this is what this is what it's going to look like I don't know if uh Mr Ward's necessarily the right uh person to answer this um or provide testimony to it but I think what we're all struggling with over here um is it seems to be such a disconnect in the application between phase one and phase two um in Phase One you know there's so much more storage area phase two there's an additional building but there's no additional um Fleet parking spaces um you know you did agree to um tweak the lighting for phase one but I think it's very difficult for us to understand kind of how the site as developed for phase one will then kind of go to phase two and what that'll look like and um kind of why it'll happen with all the work involved I don't I don't really have a listen as far as phase one all right fa phase one is what you guys have proposed with the septic and this and your storage area everything looks pretty good right you need a few tweaks here John John we're just going to take a five minute recess doesn't miss anything Recon Pat can you for Mr tannan house here sorry be the first time the uh the lighting again if you would yeah so and and this is obviously subject to an actual design and Analysis we're the applicant is is um willing to put light fixtures in the center of that rear yard to to provide an even spread so right now the concern is the perimeter's lit appropriately in the middle it's it's a it's a dark spot the goal is to eliminate that dark spot and subject to obviously a design and then submission to the board Professionals for their um review of it and then of course the board members as well you I'm assuming I'm assuming you'll have appropriate protection bar ballards and stuff around it so that get crash protection I would imagine we'd have a a footing that's raised about three feet and then possibly supplemental ballards y okay okay and and and you know there are some questions on phase one and phase two and and timing and I'm hearing some some hesitancy from from the board professionals um and from the board and may maybe maybe to alleviate some of that pardon me some of that that um uncertainty maybe we can actually change the application and make it uh prelimary final for phase one and prelimin only for for phase two um we would still have to we would have to come back for phase two um just like we'd have to come back if there was uh a different tenant or there would be a tenant going in there um we would have to come back to make our preliminary for phase two final um but we still obviously are providing all the testimony because we're asking for that preliminary approval for both and then just preliminary final for phase one think M do I said that like two hours ago right I think I I am fully in favor of that I understand the goal here I just think that phase two just brings up a lot of questions so I would feel much more comfortable in that position um I do still want to hear testimony though on the storage component because if we can eliminate some of that clearing and reduce that area I think that would also make sense under phase one um but having heard the representation I would fully support that I apologize I'm a little slow on the uptake um okay um so were there any other questions any other well this I think that that's that's the next question right answers I'm sorry what question that is the next question is is okay what are we doing with the storage and the clearing and is there a reduction and clearing based upon we don't have a building there going today I think that's correct I that's I they haven't answered that yet sounded like they were getting the finish line and skipping over that one and the other thing I want to note to the board to be very clear is I I don't expect there to be a vote this evening because they do still owe a site walk with Sherie on the buffer and they do still owe some additional information on the drainage that would also give them time Mr tenan inous to submit lighting after we kind of hear about the storage area but you'd also have that information as well and and also maybe with your client you re revisit building too as far as will in the future would it get approved if you broke it up into Flex space you know would we would we approve it for that you going to have enough parking spaces for your your potential you know applicant I mean not applicants uh renters and you know what are they bringing to the table what kind of noise what kind of hours of operation okay is this septic system going to I know you could put another septic in the back someplace is that going to be suitable okay there's a lot of questions for for number two you know maybe you guys should rethink this and get your your you know well we got to revisit the site anyway but work on phase one hopefully his business grows and he could do to to what he wants to do with with uh I think with just his own business I don't know if he should uh you know come to us with that other with that other idea but that's his choice and we could approve it or not approve but uh you know I'm sure monetarily if he's going to clear this entire site and put all this money up right you want to make sure yeah you know business is going to be thriving for that right correct all right so Mike just so I'm clear here um so we're you're seeking pre preliminary and Final on phase one and preliminary only on Phase 2 cuz it's understood it's industry driven if the success of the business which we all hope it does well um okay just one on that I'm sorry yeah that that is correct okay I didn't verbalize I apologize so is that it for Pat as an engineer that's it for Pat as an engineer unless the board had any other questions have questions I think I I mean uh oh okay I think we're still waiting to hear about the storage area yeah like oh yeah Pat Pat's not the one to answer yeah understood it's so it's a different one um yeah I guess I guess the way I'm going to do this in the because we probably won't have a a um a vote tonight is to open it to the public just for engineering questions for Pat while he's here um so if anybody from the public just for engineering questions sir there just uh swear you in just all right in a testimony you're about to provide do you swear to tell the truth to hold truth and nothing but the truth I do all right please uh go off to the microphone just State and spell your name and give us your address Les spindell s p i n d l 46 West of in way okay okay um one of the things when an industrial uh development is next to a residential development is the the question of you know the uh the issues of noise and other things like that and one of the things which I we definitely appreciate from uh all of you folks and the professionals is the requirement for a buffer between residential and Industrial um in the December 8th uh Engineers uh report there was mention of that there was not a buffer provide being provided um in in this case to a property uh lot 2.01 um has that been uh fixed and and and I just like also like to say uh we really appreciate if you you always enforce that buffer because you know it's it it helps it's a compromise and it helps with the noise issues doesn't make go away but it does it definitely makes it a lot better yes so to answer that um we we have provided that full buffer on the west so lot 2.01 is fully buffered from the development great thank you thank you thank you anyone else all right so where to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all right pleas again uh please say and spell your name provid us your address Walter merer Maur 176 West Renaissance bouevard equester resident I'm going to build a little bit on Mr spindel's uh concern about noise um and some of my questions might be more for Mr Walsh than Mr Ward um about the impact of that noise on equester residents in particular such as uh during operations backup alarms on any of their trucks or their dump trucks their cars uh is there going to be any type of assembly required during the manufacturing of these pipes and pumps um in the past we've heard loud banging sounds you know somebody hammering on things and it just seems to reverberate and echo through the west side of equestra you would think with all the trees there that it would muffle the sound a bit but it does not um and during the daily operations uh also there going to be any type of um pip systems loudspeakers somebody getting on a PA calling an employee from the back lot you know Hey Joe get to the front office you know got a question for you you know any type of loud music uh played over a PA system so just those type of General concerns you know that that is a reson of equestra you know we're living with some things you know from some of the other businesses there that don't make it as pleasant as I thought it would be when I moved there seven years ago so looking to just alleviate some of those concerns so if Mr Walsh or Mr W can answer any of those I would appreciate it I can take um I I'll do my best to try to hit it all uh there are no speakers proposed I don't I think it's the applicant's position that we're not proposing any speakers I understand what you're suggesting could be an issue um we're not proposing that Mr Walsh identified earlier what what happens in indoors in the front building and and potentially in the rear building if that gets approved the and I'm not terribly familiar with all the fittings that he was mentioning but the fitting assembly and those components as part of his water main installation will happen indoors indoors and there are roll up doors I think it would be his position that those doors will remain closed when there's any assembly happening exterior to the building I don't believe there will be any assembly um connections of pipes to pipes it usually happens in the field when you're laying a water man so that'll happen at the job site which is you know uh wherever that may be uh in the state of New Jersey in terms of just noise though overall um the town ship has very specific performance standards and it's like noise glare um light there's and there's no there's a noise ordinance at at the property line that that really needs to be followed now I know in practice that could be deviated and you've probably experienced that at your home um I will say for for our specific property not to comment on any other properties we are 200 feet away from the equestrial limits and then there's a conservation easement beyond that so how many feet was that I'm sorry the the the stem of the Harm's property is 200 feet and this so our property is how many feet from Equestria 200 200 yeah so we're 200 feet wide you almost copy that over it's the the width of the Harm's yard and then you have the equestra conservation and again I understand your comment sir um but our our goal here is not to be a disruptor um and I don't I don't believe we'll be your your set your most your nearest uh disruptor either is there any any type of welding done on these pipes during that um at this site will be done no I got that from Mr Walsh all right thank you very much thank you thank you anyone else seeing none um okay we'll close the public portion and next perfect than going ocean in the testimony you're about to provide do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I did yeah okay you please uh just state your name for the record um and then give the board your qualifications uh my name is Amanda Leno my last we have to pick you up my name is Amanda Leno uh of Leno architecture my last name is spelled l a n u uh I'm the architect and one of the principles at luno architecture I received a Bachelor's of architecture from New Jersey Institute of Technology I've been in the field of architecture for about 24 years and have been licensed for 16 years we will accept your credentials thank you very much thank you um okay uh moving on this is uh just for the record I think this was marked as a11 um this is a color rendering the front facade of the front building yes um can you just walk the board through the through the through the design uh so the front building is a 5100t building uh with uh 10t X 8T deep enclosed entrance vule uh the building has a metal seam gable roof in a black or dark charcoal color uh a belt course of a dark colored cultured stone or brick uh the vertical metal seam siding is in a light gray color uh the buildings exterior also has many windows doors enlarged white composite vertical corner boards composite horizontal front White Band awning projections metal seam projected roof return Eaves uh Shake siding at the front Gable end of the entrance vestibule and light fixures to break up the elevations perfect um and uh maybe if we can go to the next exhibit which I think is a n yeah sorry it's it's uh the architectural layout for the front uh the front building perfect there you go okay so uh if you could talk the board through the this this architectural okay of the 5100 ft is broken down into uh office and business use group area at the front left of the building with an area of about 1,2 241.55 25.5 ft then there's a common area located at the front right of the building with an area of 306 ft the common area contains a kitchenet and restrooms that will be utilized by both the rear storage use group as well as the front business use group uh the storage use group is calculated per the area to have a occupant load of 12 occupants uh the business office use group is calculated per the floor area to have an occupant load of 13 occupants and then we have also calculated an occupant load for the common area of three occupants uh to allow for any of the occupant load in the inclusion of possible visitors or um maybe extra employees or a either the front or rear portion of the buildings perfect and just to go back you said the the common area so the bathrooms and the kitchenet that is an area that's going to be used both by the the the trade contractor portion of the business um and also by the office space yes it's similar to say like in an office building they will usually have like a common core where they might have gang bathrooms uh kitchen space uh that is used by multiple tenants but in this case it's more just uh the storage use group in the back and the business you group in the front perfect thank you um if we can go to A2 what is a12 a12 is the color rendered uh facade for the rear building okay you could talk the board through through this exhibit okay the real building is a 10,780 foot building uh the re building like the front building in order to create uniformity between the two buildings also has the same metal seam gable roof uh a vertical metal seam siding and a light gray color a belt course of a darker colored vertical siding at the lower portion to match uh the belt course at the front building the building's exterior also has many windows doors and large white composite vertical Corners awning projections metal seam projected roof e turns and light fixtures to break up the elevation in addition to the above details the rear building also contains faux 3ft wide white composite uh columns to further break up the elevations and act as both uh Form and Function since it all allows for a flat surface to better Mount the exterior light fixtures and creates a visual break in color texture and building plane on the elevations perfect and so uh just just to go back so you would say that there are the the white columns and they're there to break up break up the facade how how big are they uh they're three foot wide and they go from uh the eve at the top down to the top of the belt course perfect and they'll be white in color Yes okay and and we have worked on this design or you have worked on this design with the board planner yes um and you're willing to work with the board planner should there be any other comments to to I guess break up the facade a little bit more um to whatever the board thinks would be the most aesthetically pleasing yes and in it I'm sorry not just aesthetically pleasing and also in line with the the the the Township Code yes with their architectural standards right with their architectural standards I will say this is one of the most aesthetically pleasing um designs we've seen for buildings of this type I think uh the applicants architect really tried to incorporate um the Township's design standards when designing these buildings so we don't really have any um further comments on them perfect uh thank you um and then if we can go to the last slide La this is a 10 it's the interior layout of the rear building okay if you could Amanda if you could just talk the board through this uh through this this exhibit all right the real building is broken into two separate spaces for the trade businesses uh which is per the new Jersey IBC is considered the storage use group occupancy each unit contains a potential office space with an attached restroom and then an additional restroom for the storage use counselor with all due respect sure we're not even thinking about the second phase of this project I'm not sure testimony of what's going on in the inside is even warranted because you have to come back once you figure out what you're going to do with it do you agree I I agree she she's I mean it's is going to be another two it's your testimony another minute to just run through the um kind of just to follow up on that I would also think this layout would have to change since you've provided earlier testimony that um as of right now you know the rear building would only be used by uh the applicant so I don't know if there would be the need for the two separate uh unit in uh there would need to be a potential firewall in the middle uh we're trying to avoid sprinklers so by breaking it into separate fire areas we're able to avoid a sprinkler system for the building that not the best of the building and I think that's what goes to you can put the testimony on the record but if it was going to be one user maybe it has to be dep uh maybe it has to be designed with a suppression system so yeah I mean for me personally if this ends up in the record then then I'm I'm a definite number because this this this just automatically opens up the the the door for a possible two tenant situation back there we just spent a half hour of the board's time trying to figure out that we're not going to have that and I'm sorry I don't want to waste my time anymore here either either this is a two tenant scenario and we go back to the fact that we're not compliant with this application or we we have something else I I'm sorry but this this is I'm not buying it and I'm agitated and don't get agitated very often okay um then we will stop with Amanda's testimony um as I said we were what we were trying to do is just put the testimony on the record since this is a preliminary for phase two and P final for phase one um if the board doesn't have any does the board have any questions of Mr anybody I have a question sure Mike um in reviewing the letter from Lanna V and there was a new comment on there regarding the kitchenet and 30% office use and the potential D3 variants which would kick it over to the zoning board has that been resolved because that would speak to where you're coming back to next the applicant provided testimony to that and the architect also did that it would be used um for both the office people and the field people so it doesn't trigger that 30% gotcha sorry I missed that thank you any anybody else seeing none all right um in the spirit of time I think we'll just go to your next is it are you bringing Pat back or well uh probably um I think I'm gonna wait till the end in the spirit of time um is she gonna stick around yes okay yeah okay Jr all right so so what I think I would like to do if if the board's okay with it um is I would like to pause the hearing for tonight before putting Pat's testimony on because there were changes in the plan understood um to make a to change it from a preliminary final to for phase one and the preliminary just for phase two um I I would like him I would I don't in case there are certain changes that that need to happen from a planning perspective um I'd like to have his testimony be full for rather than him coming give something that's disjointed so what I'll do Mike with the you know the public that is here I will open it up to them for architectural questions if you don't mind so if anyone just has questions for the architect while she's still here um please step forward seeing none I'll close the public portion um okay so eileene I guess we're looking for another date here yeah yeah yeah Mich will take care of that yeah not a problem we're getting into Springtime it's a good good thing I have April 4th which just right now has a minor subdivision on it I have April 18th which has a site plan application already scheduled May 9th with nothing what what's the second one in April ien what's the second date no what's the second applica the application for the second date in April it's 271 Adelphia LLC got it okay you can Mo us to the the 18th 18th of April yes and I'll need an extension of time you got it I'll give you uh do you want a formal letter or an email you can just put it on the record tonight okay you have your extension until the 8 to the end of the month so ail I is it April 31st or April 30 30 days September April all right I'll make the announcement then um so the application of J be Howell LLC that's sp115 will be carried to the board's April 18th regularly scheduled meeting at 7 pm in this meeting room all documents are still available in town hall during regular business hours for the public view okay Mike Pat thanks thank you have a great night thank you a good one uh is there any master plan updates not to put you on the spot sorry no master plan updates at this time okay thank you uh and is there any executive session uh no okay thank you all right I will entertain a motion to adjourn want make a motion to adjourn second so be thank you thank you