[Music] Eileen good evening can you please open the meeting sure zoning Board of adjustment meeting for Monday July 22nd 2024 I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township zoning board to be open adequate notice haven't been given pursuant to the new to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was mailed to the aspbury park press and the Star Ledger second on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on December 11th 2023 said notice was posted in the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the Howell Township municipal building 45 5 67 Route 9 Howell Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits which are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board May legally consider when rendering their decision and the decorum must be appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times thank you thank you IA roll call please Mr burillo here Mr caner here Mr Hughes here Mr merens here Mr Orosco is excused Mr Stanton is absent Mr Ryan pres Miss scotson present and chairman seya here you have a quum thank you okay well everybody please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge of Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you Andy can you please swear in the professionals you swear the testimony be the truth truth I do Charles Kliff Christine Bell Sher speo your professionals are Mr thank you sir item five approval of minutes regular meeting June 10th 2024 eligible voters burillo Orosco Ryan scotson and seya do we have a motion please motion to approve I second that burillo Ryan roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes chairman say it yes motion carries thank you Eileen any vouchers I have no vouchers do we have any correspondence uh the only correspondence was an email I mailed to all the members the other day uh it was a followup to Mr Cliff's email regarding storm water training all board members need to watch the video and then just send me a quick email back that you're finished with the training so we can keep it for our records great I took that training today yes you did I got your email thank you so did Mr Ryan very nice and that's all I have okay thank you resolutions there are no resolutions before the board so what we have is applications before the board we're going to start off with case number ba10 d17 spa-2 Town Homes of eols good evening Mr chairman members of the board professionals this is a this is an extension of time time is correct and this is application of town homes at Eagle Oaks LLC as applicant and the town houses at Eagle Oaks LLC and winon Property Holdings LLC as owners seeking two one-year extensions of time on approvals moralized in a resolution on June 10th 2019 on premises known as block 218 Lots 20.12 throughoute 2041 Cranberry Road that is correct my name is Bob mcgau I'm the attorney representing the applicant and the chairman has stated what we are here for and that's for the two one-year extensions so we can finally file the condo plan which has bounced around over that time okay Christine yes the two year one-ear extensions based on uh 2019 Paul I had uh yeah I'm sorry Mr chairman I had uh I had reviewed this request from a legal perspective and with the permit extension act that was passed during as a result of covid yes that it is a within the board's discretion to Grant it is legal with within the board's discretion to Grant the request okay so the two one years would take us out to when then sir that's a good question Mr mall that I leave to the applicant it's not too far off but it's for there's a 14mon gap because of the uh ex the state extension for covid uh so from the date that we were originally approved add another you have two years then you got to add 14 months I think it's like September or October Andy and I talked about it but I didn't actually write it down but it would be um you know two extensions beyond the 14 months after the two years is what it is and we'll figure that out in the resolution your letter doesn't uh June 10 your letter doesn't indicate the dates Bob um right I I I that was because we had discussed it and I I think you said it was October I counted it to September something and I didn't want to confuse it in the letter quite frankly September August of 22 would be 14 months August of 24 would be originally it was June of 19 which bring another year was 12 months brings you to 22 two more months making 14 months it's August of 22 so it's August 10th of 2024 would be I iene your email on this originally indicated August I mean uh not August October October of this year of this year that's correct October yeah with your analysis the the date in uh the board administrators email indicates wait so and just to give the board some context on this right so this property has a long history going years ago it was all single family dwellings on a road that was to be dedicated to the township they've been back to the board a couple of times the roads since reverted back to a private R away and then they came back to amend some of the buildings to make them Town Homes to make a COA so really it's just the extension to actually file the the map to form the COA right that is correct that is correct so they've it's my understanding they address everything on my end and then also with the township engineering department this is the last step so it's an extension to file the map that is correct I mean there are 10 resident homeowners in place now we're looking to complete the development so you're looking for it would be Mr chairman until October 7 2024 that would be the two-year extension and we're ready to file the map now so that should more than adequate yes okay September October 7th October 7th is what we said yes 2024 okay well that's what he needs Andy do we need to open public on extension time yes Mr chair okay I'll make a motion to open the public second all in favor I Eileen at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public if anyone has any questions or comments regarding this application please step forward you will be required to give your name and address and be sworn in not seeing any motion to close second all in favor I at this time the hearing is closed to the public okay what's the pleasure of the board three Monon extension basically four month actually June July August September October make a motion Mr chair to go ahead and Grant that extension to October 7th 2024 October 27th 2024 for Eagle Town what did I say 27 oh wow there you go I'm going to give you another 20 days I'm sorry October 7th you're very lenient tonight I I I second the motion to extend it to 107 2024 thank you Mr Ryan we got a motion in a second Eileen roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman s yes motion carries thank you very much sir good night okay you are case number ba1 19-23 Yesa mkor Inc this is a type use type is a use variance preliminary and Final major site plan and major subdivision description application of Yeshiva emora Inc as applicant seeking use variant preliminary and final major site plan and major subdivision approval to remove all existing structures from Lots 22 and 23.1 and construct a two-story 23253 squ foot School building with a basement located predominantly on lot 22 but also partially on Lots 23 and 23.1 the ex exting one story educational facility located on Lot 23 is to remain and a vertical addition is proposed over the over the proposed gymnasium on premises known as block 69 lot 15 22 23 and 2301 395 Kent Road this application was partially heard on March 25th 2024 when it was carried to July 8th 2024 with no further notice after some testimony on July 8th the app was carried to tonight July 22nd 2024 with no further notice expiration date is August 31st 2024 eligible voters burillo caner yuse Maron Orosco scotson and seya and Mr Ryan has certified he read the transcript today so thank you Mr Ryan thank you Mr Ryan Mr P yes Mr chairman good evening Mr chairman members of the board and board professionals and public just before we begin am I correct that that the seven board members that are sitting here this evening are fully qualified yes they are as you read into the record by the chairman this is the third presentation of the application to the board the first one in March the second one two weeks ago and this is our third there are three witnesses that I intend to call for direct presentation to the board I believe that they'll be um efficient in their presentation to the board Scott Kennel is our traffic expert um Scott does have a time constraint so I intend to call him as the first witness and also ask that his examination take place after he testifies Le zner is the design engineer his testimony will follow um Mr Z's testimony was substantially placed on the record in March this evening he's going to address open questions and just do an executive summary of the the site plan and the subdivision and Christine kaone is our professional planner all of the witnesses who previously testified are with us the architect Miss rub has joined us Rabbi Weinberger is here Jack Mandel bam is here um so if there are questions of any of those individuals they remain with us thank you Mr Pape Mr Pape the traffic engineer did he also testify at this during the preliminary he did not testify on this application he's testified about four years ago the first time in the preliminary right it was a use variance yes yeah yes so with your permission we'll have Mr kennel and I'll ask if you want his credentials on the record again they are part of the record and and we'll go right to his substance of presentation he been SW he wasn't sworn before I don't I'm not remembering clearly if he was sworn I know that he's been part of a lot of me let's do it again let swear me you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you got I do please state your name for the record and spell your last yes Scott Kennel Ken NE L with MCD and Ray Associates located at Manasquan and Mr chair Mr kennel has testified before this board on many occasions and been qualified as an traffic expert may I ask that you accept him in that we accept him yes sir Mr kenel I know that you have been part of this project since its beginning I'm going to ask if you could take us through the following one if you could describe the on-site circulation and confirm the fire department's review of that on-site circul two if you could identify the how a bus navigates the property and three if you could describe the adequacy of the parking then I look to you if there's anything further that you believe the board should hear with regard to this application thank you yeah firstly just briefly Talk touch on the traffic study that we did for this uh current application in conjunction with it we conducted new traffic counts in May of 2023 so we did the traffic counts in the morning afternoon and also Friday mid midday because that's a a time period that the students are dismissed ahead of the Sabbath so and in doing o traic accounts uh we found that the volumes are slightly higher than what we done previously and that is basically because Beth Church Road was closed so as I'm sure you're all familiar during that time period there's a lot of diversions and adjustments and traffic patterns but we utilize those higher traffic counts and doing our analysis just to be conservative when we had conducted the traffic accounts there were 15 students uh on campus or on the site at the time so to reflect the maximum enrollment of 180 students we adjusted the traffic volumes that were recorded back in May of 2023 to represent 180 students and in doing that we then analyzed the site driveway at Kent Road and found that the intersection or the site driveway would operate at good levels of service a level of service b b is a boy in the morning C in the afternoon a weekday afternoon and then C for the Friday dismissal period and that's with the higher traffic counts as the result of the of the road closure on belto Church Road so from a operational standpoint my testimony is that the drive oil operates safely and efficiently and with its design as a Boulevard type driveway uh can function very well and as I testified previously with the site fontage improvements it's also going to uh enhance a sight distance looking both North and South with the uh modified widening along the site Frontage so again when this project is completed the site axis will have a better design and will operate safely and efficiently as far as the on-site circulation uh Mr zugner had uh testified earlier to the plan that is what exhibit exhibit 833 thank you thank you exhibit 833 where we've designed this uh to accommodate the buses that will be serving uh the school where they will enter off of Kent Road and C circula in a counterclockwise pattern to drop the students in front of the new building where the portica share is uh there's more than adequate uh stacking and storage to accommodate the buses that will service this site and as a result of bus has being able to navigate this site efficiently same is true with emergency vehicles and this has been reviewed by the fire Bureau and found to be uh designed in a proper manner to safely and efficiently serve the site uh the one last point I'll discuss is the parking where 28 parking spaces required we're providing 39 parking spaces we also have overflow parking which is probably not uh warranted given the when I prepared the report in 2023 at that time they were going to have graduation ation on graduations on site that is now going to be offsite so the parking demand for event type of uh uh for those type of events will not be necessary so the 39 pay parking spaces in my opinion will be more than adequate to serve the site board may recall that there was testimony that there were previously three types of special events that occurred on the campus there was the um award ceremony there was graduation and there was also parent teacher conference parent teacher conferences remain but they're scheduled and do not create a burden on the parking facility the other two events are no longer on campus they are off campus and that Arrangement is in place I have nothing further Mr kenel in the form of direct fees available to the board and your professionals board members any questions so there's not be more parking on grass I think that was some I think there was testimonial the line somewhere that was parking on grass possibly there are 29 overflow parking spaces that would be accommodated Beyond The 39 correct so it's it's still part of the plan but the likelihood that it have to be utilized is very unlikely where where would they be so recall they're on the they're be on the easterly side of the parking field closest to the existing building so it's that bank of parking that's along closest to the existing in building that'll be refurbished not with a septic system so I look at exhibit 833 along here along the easterly side of the parking field and then on the opposite side the dark gray spaces represent the um 29 additional spaces I see it now okay testimony that that's a safeguard but not one that you anticipate they'll require correct Goa okay well then we're not going to uh nothing's going to be done on the road then any parking so that's out of the do we have no parking signs out there I recall we're we're comfortable with any traffic control signs that you'd like including no parking along the road yeah I think I think for that road I think it would be a good idea it's not going to be I think that was a condition of the prior approval correct Mr Ms they are widening the shoulder along Kent Road on their side of the road so I think that is prudent I think that came up the last time ultimately any signage is put in a public RightWay is subject to the town's approval so you know they have to just show the plan and it'll get the approval from PD and uh the engineer I I just want to um add two so Mr kennel the circulation that's being shown now is largely the same as what was presented to the board at the time of the use Fair application right that's correct and the enrollment that's being proposed now is 180 students versus what was under the prior approval 340 345 yeah so generally speaking less students is less buses and less trips to the site that's correct so the on-site loading and offloading for the bus area in your opinion still adequate for the site that's correct um and then just globally right 180 students versus 340 I think this board acted previously in the positive that this site could accommodate the use now it's coming back all be on a more limited basis so I I take no exception to any Mr uh Kendall's testimony from a traffic perspective thank you Charlie con okay Mr P Mr we'll open it to public later okay and if you could open on him at this time because he does have other appointments this evening I'll make a motion to open thank you do we have a second second all in favor hi all right ien opening public for the traffic engineer only at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public who have questions or comments on for the traffic engineer only anyone who has any please step forward be prepared to give your name and address and be sworn in not seeing any motion close all in favor all right we're closing thank you thank you for the accommodations you got it our second witness is Lewis hner Lewis is the professional engineer responsible for the plans he did testify extensively in March he was sworn I'll so remind him and his credentials are on he did raise a few eyebrows when he testified in March see if you can keep the eyebrows down tonight so so the building has shrunk mhm we're interested in the the septic field yes and everything else that you are going to put on the record that contradicts what you first put on the record back in clarifies March clarifies clarifies okay so Mr zner is a professional engineer his credentials were placed before the board and his expertise was accepted um I think that a very good place to begin would be the right to talking about septic system certainly so when we were talking about septic systems the last time we did not have an approval we now have a design and an approval and we also had schematics identifying where the septic would be placed we now have a fully designed septic we also did not have all the information about the septic systems that will be abandoned there are a number to be abandoned not to steal your thunder please take us through those points leis so uh good evening first thing that I would note and we'll go through this from the beginning the existing site does have four septic fields we talked about that last time the two houses and two for the existing building all of which are being uh eliminated so it'll be one new modern septic field and that field is now defined on the plan the grading around it defined it does not impact any buffer or other areas uh it's you can see on exhibit A3 the open green area in the upper left of the property with the location right there and Mr Pape is that the area that you also purchased they the applicant purchased to expand applicant purchased the property behind the existing building back there okay for the yeah for the setback got a long stripo yes yes I would note also on the septic system we do have Board of Health approval uh and Board of Health approval is the outside agency that governs the design of the system um any other conditions that might come up through Board of Health or through construction Department we would have to meet those as well we do have their approval on the field uh and that is sized uh and designed to accommodate 180 students plus faculty or staff in the building with your permission we'll go to another topic Charlie so when we pull out the old ones we're going to clean fill or yeah so obviously that's under the jurisdiction of Board of Health but uh they make sure that any septic systems abandoned in accordance with all applicable regulations I do want to point out and Mr Zar correct me if I'm wrong so obviously um you have the uh is that the mati Kon on the south end here and there's flood area and all that kind of stuff so there is Wetlands to the south of the site they applicant I think put testimony on the record last time they're in the process theyve submitted their Loi for a taaw their driveway largely is in the same footprint of what was already existing out there um nevertheless they are expanding it a little bit so they're getting their approvals for that um there is a septic system I believe on the south side of that existing School building right Mr that is correct yes so that's being removed and that's being removed from the environmentally regulated area correct that area will be essentially with the EP reestablished as within uh part of the transition area thank you so and I just want to touch on the new septic right so I know there's uh Mr Zer said they have an approval for a new septic system right um I would just ask that the Board of Health give final sign off that it be for the new lot designation the prior sign off might be for the existing structure as it is lot you know the Standalone lot designation they'll make determination that the flows are acceptable and everything it's under their jurisdiction and I just want to know for the record a key component of that is right they said at the last hearing no food prep in the kitchen no classroom space in the existing uh building that's to be converted to the gymnasium and wreck and things like that um I just want want to site that again for the record that plays into the septic design so yes they said they're just going to hate the food that comes in yes so they I think they put a representation similar to the first time when they were here for the use that it's all prepared off site and it's just served on the site from the kitchen and cafeteria thank you Char Mr sure all of all of Mr K's comments are accurate and all of his Recollections are ours every representation that he just remembered we offer to you again this evening I'd like to make just one point pointed out that we our driveway is getting a little bit wider you know there's a new fire chief in the past year and the new fire chief took a look at what the old fire chief did and said I think I can make it two feet better and asked us to widen the boulevard two additional feet and Lewis found some room to do it so that's why there's going to be an amendment to the T aw approval from the D to accommodate that I think a very important point is Landscaping and buffers if we could go right to landscaping and buffers um I know that we spent time with your office spent considerable time with Sherie speo to make certain that we understood her requirements and also to make up for the deficiencies in the plan that was presented in March if you could take us through where we are certainly and as Mr Pape said recognize that the original plan did not meet your expectations uh my office spent time uh with Miss SPO which was very helpful a couple of key ele elements there are a number of hickory trees uh on the site and as we've been directed not every single one but a number of them can be preserved and they will be uh throughout the Landscaping PL we've added significant density in terms of numbers of plantings and look to make those species to the maximum extent possible deer resistant there's no deer proof but deer resistant uh in a portion of the property near uh Kent Road uh there are some select non-native species that are being removed and that's again your professional Direction uh where we are moving removing trees there's the opportunity to include a 3ft tall berm which then new Landscaping would go on top of so that's added element to the landscape plan and I uh believe we didn't touch on this in the last instance uh in reviewing the woodlands management plan there are nine additional trees even from this plan that still need to be added to make that uh compensation whole one last point of when we were before the board there was a note brought to our attention by board members and the board professionals that the northern side of the new building had skimpy Landscaping inadequate and skimpy Landscaping I think were the words that were used if you could confirm that that's an area that your firm has worked with Sherie so that that condition no longer exists yes that that has happened and not just in that location but throughout the has game plan rather than go into it in any greater detail may I ask if Miss spau could comment and advise whether she is satisfied with the work that Mr zner has done yes I had uh multiple calls with their office and we went through everything that I had commented on um so their landscape architect you know did what I asked for and I I think the buffering is is much improved and you have nine trees that you got to Spot somewhere I'm sure we could either fit them in or I'm sure we'll we'll find a home Mr zner did go through grading and drainage with with in March I'm going to ask just have you conferred with Mr Kliff and are you and Mr K I'll ask Mr Bo ask Mr Kliff but I'll I'll ask you and you and Mr Kliff in agreement that you understand what he is requiring you can and will satisfy his outstanding grading and training yes as we noted uh previously uh it's three new basins that meet the new rules those rules have changed since we were here for the use variants and there are a couple of open conditions but we know we can satisfy your engineer so Charlie yes Mr chair no they're they're close and I think Mr zner uh um is accurately summarizing it so when they were here previously as part of the use variance they did a whole detailed storm War design as part of that the rules have subsequently changed there's more enhanced standards with green infrastructure and things like that um you know they're still working through some crossing the te's doting the eyes on their stor design if I didn't feel that they were close enough that they could address this as like a compliance issue you know we wouldn't be here right now so okay and and just to clarify right so all the site runoff existing in the existing condition goes to an on-site storm War Basin and then discharges to existing outfalls to the maicon to the South all their site runoff is being captured attenuated with basins and then is still going to those same points so it's not like we're creating a new outfall or all this W is running down the driveway to Kent Road it's all captured and then discharged to an existing uh discharge point so there'll be no velocity increase or anything at it to that sense you know it's a site plan over 5,000 square feet so they also have to get their soils approval if they haven't already gotten that so and they typically will review that for velocity and the like we have an operations and maintenance manual that will be reviewed by by Charlie it will then be recorded as a restrictive covenant that'll run with the land in perpetuity removing any burden from the township giving the township the right to police it if they choose but removing any burden of Maintenance from the township and imposing on the property owner in purpose to thank you we have a subdivision the neighbor that is located to the east of us has made available some of their land that we are looking to incorporate I think will just take a moment to have Lewis described that area and its Dimensions that are it's essentially a subdivision that is a lot line adjustment between two consenting Property Owners Louis if you could describe it this is relatively simple the the site was always three lots uh Lots 22 23 and 2301 which would to be merged uh what's new here is you can see with the dash line to the top of exhibit A3 this was uh an additional 20t in terms of depth it's a total of 8,997 square ft so this is um significant in the sense that it creates the full 50 ft from the existing building and we had relief for that in the prior use variance application uh this creates the full 50 ft and then uh there would be on the adjoining lot some additional plantings to make sure that that was a fully landscaped 50 ft and Mr Jer the version of the Landscaping plan will be revised if needed to show those additional plantings in that expanded area yes it will okay and just to give the board some refresher on this so uh when we were previously when they were previously before the board there was a lot of discussion about the existing building and there being in a gymnasium and the height of the structure needed to be raised by a foot or you know two or three feet something to that effect um the board didn't really wasn't in love with that because of the lack of the full 50ft buffer now they're acquiring the property to plant that to get that 50ft buffer so they can raise and to clarify it's not the entirety of the building Mr Pap it's just the southern part where the gyms proposed just above the basketball court but they're providing the buffer along the entirety of that common property line Mr chair members of the board I have no further direct examination of leis sner he's available to you now or later in the we certainly put Mr Zer through the ringer huh yes any questions for the uh the engineer the um so that piece of land that East piece of land we were just talking about um did you said that's an agreement with that property owner or do they now own the property we can't own it until this board allows the line to be adjusted can't can't buy property without having the lot line adjustment we're under contract to purchase it okay that property owner joined our application their signature consenting to us so so the uh applicant is going to own that piece of land at some point yes sir and it will all become part of the campus okay um as far as the septic and I come from New York city so nobody's really on septic and I have very little little knowledge of septics um the mammoth County Board of Health um approved you for 180 students plus faculty um what is what is the capacity the total capacity like um is there an outer limit to septics can it do more than 180 plus what was it 15 20 faculty if you had a system that exceeded treatment of 2,000 gallons per day if the system treated greater than 2,000 gallons per day there is a complex set of approvals that you have to go to the D to secure sure we did not go to the D for those we designed a septic system that was 2,000 gallons per day or less and the 2,000 gallons per day or less matches the student population and the staff what if if you would um what happens if you go beyond that 2000 maybe not all the time but maybe it just happens like what is the outcome like what happens does a septic system fail does it like what happens if you go past that 2,000 gallons a day so the answer is in some ways a little bit more complex than that so the 2,000 gallon per day and the design is based on the proposed use there wouldn't be a monitoring of the flow from the building in that sense the monitoring would be in the use of the building the number of students um a septic system based on soil conditions uh here would not fail the moment it exceeded 2,000 gallons per day any system could fail for different conditions or different reasons down the line uh but there are remedies to A system that fails also repairs there's there's state laws that require the system to be serviced no less often than once every two years um most people who have a septic system that depend on it like this would have an annual contract where the system is pumped dry flushed with clean water pumped dry again and just that's that's how the septic systems health is maintained okay thank you Mr ran yeah I have a follow-up question or two to the septic system the existing building that's there flows currently South to the existing septic field which is being removed it actually flows to two separate septic fields at the moment okay so the plumbing is going to be rerouted yes the when the septic fields are removed is the plumbing going to be removed also or just capped off at a certain point what Plumbing it fixtures inside underground any anything exterior to the building would be removed is going to be removed any pipe or tank or any element of that system that's outside the building would be removed okay that's all I need to know thank you and there's a permit process for that similar to the permit process for the septic system there's an unepic system permit process to remove the septic system okay thank you thank you Mr Ryan anyone else yeah Mr can um Mr P Mr zugner um you mentioned that there's going to be seven additional trees that eroded to the property nine n nine I'm sorry nine um instead of trying squeeze them into the property would you be willing to pay the township to put in nine trees in an addition in another site where we plant trees we we have a number of different sites where we plant trees and we're always looking to add more trees instead of trying to squeeze them into your property can we have them for another area Mr caner the idea is an excellent one and I'll say yes conditionally conditioned upon your governing body allowing us to do that if your governing body accepts that program we're in if they don't we'll squeeze them in here thank you but with your endorsement I'm sure the governing body will look up with favor upon us thank you okay thank you Mr P I think with the board's permission um ready for Christine cfone to join us and to thank Mr zna for his testimony this evening thank you Mr thank you it was easy tonight wasn't it yes Miss Kone Miss Kone if you could be sworn and then we'll place your credentials on tonight's record I was in fact sworn on the 25th but I can be sworn again it's probably a good idea these where testimony give will be the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth to help you God yes state your name for the record spell your less it's Christine cfone c f o n e and Christine's with the c h r i s t i n e professional planner in the state of New Jersey I've been testifying a such for 28 years I've been qualified here in how many many many times and I testified on the original uh application we'll accept your credentials thank you chairman thank you so miss Kone you've heard the testimony of all the witnesses over the last two hearings you've heard the commitments that were made by the rabbi and Mr Mandel bam as to the school's operation the description of the building the detailed description of the building from our architect Miss rub and you also heard Scott kennel's description of the traffic improvements with all of those facts before you I'm going to ask if you could take us through what your analysis is the proofs that this applicant owes the board and if you could take us to some opin professional opinion conclusions of course yes I did hear all of that testimony and very importantly in this case um you know I always go to the site as the board knows I testified here enough for you to know that but in this particular application I spent a lot of time and I toured the interior of the building and when I was there not only did I tour this building but I took the opportunity um with the applicant to walk down to the dormatory that's right just down the street from here that they built and tour that as well so I'm happy to say that I you know the dermatory was very tidy as the boys live there I was very impressed there was a lot of made beds and a pretty tidy way of living so that was encouraging to see but when I had the opportunity to tour the existing um educational facility it really I mean if you had an opportunity to go in and see the building you would certainly be able to understand quite quite well the applicant's motivation to address the overcrowding I can tell you there is not a space that's unused in there and there's really not a great space for any of the students to meet offline with any teachers there's just not um there's just not a lot of space every space seems to be doing double duty in some way functioning as classroom space and then perhaps something else and there's just really a lack of functional space I would say for a modern school so I can say based on my review of of the existing conditions on the property this is I would say probably an overdue application for the applicant to run a proper school at this facility with that being said the subject property is located in the ar2 zone and we do need um a d variance for this application because schools aren't inherently beneficial use unlike some other D variances you hear where the applicant goes through the particular suit particular suitability and the maichi provs you won't hear that tonight because it's an inherently beneficial use presumptively and it promotes the general welfare the applicant satisfies its particular suitability as well as its positive criteria so what that's left with and and this was if you had an opportunity to look at the resolution of approval from the prior go round on this is we're left with the seek a balancing test and that is really a four-prong test that requires the applicant identify the beneficial use at stake and here you you have the the school and historically you had the Solomon Shor here School operating here for over a decade and the applicant has operated here for over a decade themselves so we have a long history of a school operating on this this site and then you have the opportunity to identify any detrimental impacts resulting from the variant um and then after that prong you impose reasonable conditions and you balance the last prong of the test is to balance in we the positive and negative criteria area and I think you know as as you heard this site was approved for nearly 400 students last time on a site that was about 9,000 square ft smaller because in the application that's before you The Sibling along our rear property line or um you know the back of the existing school property we are proposing to add about 9,000 square fet for about 20 ft in depth it goes I I would say a little bit more than half of the entirety of the property if you're looking at the EAS um I don't know what exactly that's marked in his evidence but it's up on the screen as well you can see that dash line that sort of runs along the back and that's the 9,000 square ft and and what that does is it improves conditions over what was improved last time the last time the application was before you we saw a building coverage variance which we're not seeking today um but as the review letter that was prepared by avaki and Associates identifies you know certain bulk variants relief was required in conjunction with this application that would be carried through for the lot coverage the front yard setback the side yard setback as well as the buffers that relief was requested in conjunction with the prior application and I would say you know it's only improving with this application because when you add 9,000 square ft to the property obviously the coverage goes down right because we're adding additional area that is going to be um functioning essentially as a buffer in the back there um so I think the betterments with this this plan is that we are improving the storm water management on this property we are introducing a formal Landscaping plan if you've had an opportunity to go out there to you know that the existing vegetation is pretty heavy along the perimeter of this property but we did um representatives of our team did walk the property with um Miss SPO your uh landscape expert and there's a a Comm commitment on behalf of the applicant to supplement where we have maybe missed the mark But to create a 3-ft firm so we're certainly creating a better buffering situation than exists uh on the property today so I I think when you take on balance and you look right at the stated purpose of the ar2 Zone which is to focus development in areas that are um not undisturbed and that are already Disturbed and I think that this application is a really good um a really good example of that right because we're taking something that's been an existing um existing school and when you look at that purpose which really reads to minimize the impacts of development in areas located outside of the centers identified in the Township's master plan the goals include not only the preservation of Rural and agricultural uses and preservation of rural character but addition to act as a buffer between zones of Greater development and the other AR3 zones so the fact that this property has been developed uh in decades and this application gives the board an opportunity to sort of improve upon the storm water management approve upon the buffering I think when the board does that balancing test that the Sea Test requires you to do I think the board together with the very uh the very needed improvements to the physical plant to this this building I think the board can certainly conclude that the relief could be granted and the SE of balancing test is satisfied and there will be no substantial detriment to the Zone plan thank you Mr Kon you're welcome Christine um I think U Miss cfone met the required proofs for V uh relief um and I she uh properly indicated uh you know the they need to meet the proofs under the SEO balancing test I think they did um as she stated you know this board previously um approved a uh basically the same use but with uh um more students so they're reducing the impacts um but increasing some storm water and landscaping and I think that's a positive thank you board members okay Mr chair that is your applicant's direct presentation but for a very simple summation we have nothing further for the board this evening okay then we're going to open it up to public sir I'll make a motion to open public all in favor yes ien at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public for questions or comments anyone who has some please come up to the podium give your name and address and you will be sworn in Andy all you where the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth out I do please state your name for the record it's Larry galinsky g i l i NSK k y 359 Kent [Applause] Road okay witness is sworn Mr chair okay questions of the professionals uh yeah I have some comments and uh so focusing often on the septic system we're going to do five minutes and five minutes is what the board rules are five minutes questions five minutes comments so we don't okay as long as you can comply with that we're good well can I have my comments in form of a question you can do this you can do that but then that's going to eat up your question time okay well it's not going to take me five minutes uh we live 250 ft away from the southern the northern edge of the isba property we've been there 26 years this coming Thursday um now we know Rabbi Weinberger he's been in our home we've had talks you know we think he's a good guy and uh he has said gun to his head he's going to be happy with 180 students but the Affairs of people change and uh what happens after they're granted these approvals and a new administrator to quote from the Bible one who does not know Joseph that's in Exodus Schmo 1A for the rabbis and they decide that they want to expand that they have all this extra room they can get another uh row of desks into each classroom that can use the study halls and suddenly they can increase enrollment Beyond 180 students and faculty how does the board hold them to the uh80 students you know in other words we're saying that you know we're on a shallow well and a septic and this field is near us and we would ask the board to to increase the amount of uh ability for the septic uh system to handle up to uh the original 345 students that they asked for like me to oh I'm sorry go ahead Mr P Surly commitments that were made to this board which are then also made to the community and to Mr galinsky include that we would cap our students at 180 that we would invite in the spring anyone who wants to to see our enrollment we'll provide that to this municipality annually we will be transparent at all times there'll be an open invitation to the municipality to enter the building to see the operation the commitment to 180 students would be in a developers agreement that and how will every resolution be becomes a recorded document recorded as a lean against the property it follows whoever owns or uses this piece of property and and there it cannot be violated it cannot be increased without coming here before this board and earning that increase so those are the commitments that have been made is is that correct it is and John and by stipulating at this board case an exact number it then becomes enforcable by code enforcement or any other department within the township who pays a visit whether it be on a yearly uh inspection schedule or on a surprise inspection uh to go in there so if they are violated then we are we are able to enforce that number so it's already been stipulated and that's what we're going to be holding them to okay that's it good evening thank you Mr glinsky is there anyone else from the public that would like to come up comments and questions not seeing any Mr chairman yeah all in favor I ien at this time the public portion of this hearing has been closed Mr Pape summation summation a brief summation this board has delved into this matter in depth and probably has the same depth of working knowledge that the professionals on the team have we're asking for permission to add land to the property to reduce the size of the the building by approximately 30% there are commitments for every room in the building that are part of the record that we expect will be in the resolution there's a maximum number of undergraduate students and a maximum number of graduate students and there is transparency and the opportunity for the municipality to at all times enforce that transparency we would ask that the board consider the request for the amended use Varian preliminary final site plan favorably this evening thank you thank you Mr P I do have a question Mr P um through Mr abano's office I had emailed her to make a request to you to ask your engineer about the classroom sizes and the uh capacity of each one of those classrooms the message that I received Mr burill was from to have the architect prepare that plan and add those notes to the plan and that was done that that was filed with M robano all the the size of each room the label of each room the legal capacity and the intended capacity are all added are are those numbers available I we have it we put up and show put this afternoon okay it should be the last exhibit John sure a47 believe hi and where on the where should uh we what P should we put up on the exhibit along Z2 Z2 and Z3 Z2 Z2 and Z3 that's not up there so this is the main building that's right and that was the request and Mr Burell had also as for the the old building too thank you no the old the old building had all the square footage the new building had none of the square footage okay look like that all right so 3794 okay that's the postgraduate classroom that's for both so M rub has joined me at the council table she has been sworn and her credentials are on the record so may she consider yes yes so the question uh Mr bur is the what are we looking at sure so the main study hall at level one will be used for both both high school and post High School in the mornings for morning services and then the high school boys go upstairs for the remainder of the day I'm I'm just more interested um for everybody to hear about the classrooms oh sure AB yeah we can just do the class P the mic closer to you so we can get you on the record please thank you sure and are we starting with the postgraduate side that's right yes this classroom is for postgraduates and what's the square footage 1,267 Square ft and the capacity 63 persons okay if we go to Z3 you can see the remainder of the classrooms if you wouldn't mind so I can't see that's fine sure the classrooms range from 777 Square F feet so classroom one do are they numbered that's right yep classroom one is on the top yeah 777 Square ft um code that would be a maximum occupancy of 39 persons our intended is 29 persons maximum occupany 39 that's correct okay class two two is 838 Square ft ma maximum occupancy of 42 persons with a proposed occupancy load of 29 persons mhm classroom 3 826 sare ft occupancy per code 41 persons with a proposed occupancy load of 29 persons and lastly classroom 4 838 Square ft occupancy load 42 persons with a proposed occupancy load of 29 persons okay thank you sure thank you thank you Mr bur how you good so and Mr chair just to give Clarity because this has kind of come up on other applications so we did have an alus Bas application within the last two years on the south end of town of Route 9 and there was a discussion about um maximum occupancy per Building Code versus the actual intended occupancy once you start fitting it out with desks and things like that that eats into some of the occupancy so you know what can physically fit in there per the fire code in uccc is sometimes different than what once you fit it out can actually fit in there so you've heard a clear representation from Mr Pap and the applicant on a maximum enrollment you can guarantee that that's going to be in a resolution as a condition and then you know from there it goes to potential code enforcement if it ever becomes an issue and hopefully it does not come become an issue got it thank you my question is is the proposed occupancy Canen the limit then that or I understand then you could fit more but is that what would be so proposed occupancy is consistent with our testimony there can we have single classroom per grade four grades four classrooms we have a commitment that 28 students 28 students and one instructor is 29 there's your commitment 28 students and one instructor in four classrooms okay so John John um you said so you guys go in you guys meaning um code enforcement code enforcement does Ferrari Bureau also do their own inspections so it is so so goes in we're not going in there just because there has to be a reason for us to be there so code enforcement there needs to be a reason for you to go fire Bureau will be going in on a yearly they go in on their yearly fire inspection correct is it year is it yearly fire yes okay and that is part of their um I don't know if you can speak for fire Bureau but is that part of their inspection yes of of going into a classroom eyeballing it making sure there's 28 and not they're they're going they're going in to ensure that the the fire code is being adhered to so that that would be subject to uh occupancy um um emergency exits fire extinguisher things of uh Fior nature um if they suspect that there's an overcrowding issue which leads to violations in the fire code yes they and then they would enforce it on their end and usually we would get a call if if it's something more than that but what fire Bureau is going to see is an occupany sign that says you know say for classroom two in the high school 42 so if they see 40 students then they'll be like well they're they're in they're in compliance correct that would be correct but Mr BR we offered and it could be in the resolution in April of every year the class is chosen we'll provide that 28 Time 4 students to the municipality so that you can see who they they are there in September when the school year begins which is when the maximum number of students would be there we is an open invitation to the town to Comm in and inspect we are looking for transparency we're not looking for a way to sneak around I'm not I'm it it Mr Pape you know there been a point of contention for me the the the size of this with wanting to keep the same amount of students you're quadrupling the size for the same amount of students for all of the Reas and you have the room you you can go up to 42 students in that classroom if you want to no we can't because we've agreed to not do that nobody's going to go nobody's then nobody's standing there with a clicker I don't see fire prevention going in there and if they see 40 students they'll be assigned say as 42 they're in compliance I understand your concern I don't know what more I can what other commitments the rabbi or all what we can make to you and I've been up to the school and I and I see that they need more room the question for me is how much room do they need you know four times the amount seems to be above and beyond it for all of the reasons that have been placed on the record and all of the purposes that each of those rooms has we ask that you consider it favorably and whatever if if additional insurances of of compliance are required whatever is required we the rabbi is not looking to bring the to the rabbi is not looking in any way to be pulling the wool over anyone's eyes this is exact what we're telling you is exactly what they want to do nothing yeah because I would imagine I mean it's such a really good program by all accounts that the community is going to start wondering why can't the rabbi take on more the he's got this space and there's going to be pressure for him to do so and rightfully so because he's got a great program and he's got the room his word is his word if I may the 20 square ft per person that code a l y you know that's how we got to our ma Max occupancy load is a like Mr K said before any furniture is in the room so any built-in you know cabinets along the wall decreases that occupancy that's number one number two these are high school boys so we allot 25 squ feet per person things like that to make the classroom functional for boys who are there for so many hours during the day we feel that this this is an appropriate size room for 29 people not for 42 so you're saying the 20 square fet allotted per student does not include say their desk that's right Co code asks us to take the square footage of the room and divide it by 20 for a maximum occupancy Lo that's how they that's their you know math but an our experience for high school boys who are there for so many hours a day a number like 25 or 22 ft per person and is more appropriate and that's why the classrooms are bigger than what code really would mandate they be for 29 children for 29 students I should say John is that how you interpret it and is that how it is I couldn't speak to that I'm not sure Charlie I think that is something that would typically reviewed by like the building department construction Department as far as occupancy load and things like that I I don't I can't give you a definitive answer on that it's their application they're making certain representations before the board they've made certain commitments ultimately it's up to the board's determination on how you feel you want to vote on the application based off the information that's been presented to you okay you're good yeah okay then what's the pleasure of the board Mr seya before you call the vote I just have one more question for Mr Pape um in looking at the Aerials uh it would appear that the land that's being acquired uh I'm not sure if the property line is too scale uh but it would appear that it's cutting through a a structure um on the site plan it says to be demoed is that going to be the responsibility of the applicant of the property owner current property owner the applicant's responsibility to remove the structure okay Mr Mr chairman yes sir I make a motion that we Grant the use variants preliminary and minor and final major site plan and major subdivision requested by the applicant uh given and put in the reservation the the resolution their commitment to maintain the population as they've stated in the application and all commitments made while presenting this application in the three hearings in front of this board second okay we got a motion in a second ien Mr burillo you for the reasons why I mentioned um I'm going to vote no Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens I believe the applicant has made concessions that I was concerned about regarding uh the students walking the buffer was a big issue for me and I do agree with Mr Barillo there there is some gray area with these classroom sizes and I I do think they're bigger than what they should be but we're voting on based on what we're putting in the resolution and that is how many students are going to be in there and for that reason I'm going to vote Yes as well Mr Ryan I'm going to vote Yes on this uh I agree with Mr burillo that quadrupling the size of the building seems more than necessary but based on what we're looking at the con sessions that the applicant has made from the first time they were in front of the board dealing with the septic dealing with the uh buffer zone uh even dealing with the drive uh they've been very amenable to work with the board so I'm voting yes Miss scotson yes and chairman seya we're getting two septics out of the M KCK and moving it further away so yes Mr chairman all board members thank you for your deliberations thank you and good night good good night thank you I we're going to take 10 the board is now going to take a 10-minute recess they'll be back at 8:25 the zoning board will now reconvene okay case number ba1 18-1 17A John blw it Inc to use variants bulk variants and amended minor subdivision application of John blitt Inc as applicant and owner seeking approval to subdivide two existing Lots into three New Lots on premises known as block 46 Lots 9 10.02 246 Herbertsville Road exploration date July 22nd 2024 which is today well we're here sir I'm I'm Dennis galin I'm with the firm of Davidson Eastman Munos and Pon I think it's funny that I am now sitting in the same chair that Mr P sat in because when I became a lawyer the first person I worked for was Mr Pape and he used to drag me to these meetings everywhere so my development chops were all all learned from him and my board chops were all learned from Mr Mr pan so I had pretty good experience now what I have for you tonight is a I don't want to call it a tale of wo but in a zoning business things sometimes take longer than we want them to take in 2019 we received an approval and as part of that approval we had to go to the D to get a determination of wetlands the Wetland determination had really nothing to do with this property it's on the property but it doesn't adversely affect any of the uses on the property so unlike other matters where maybe you have a subdivision and it affects the number of houses this had absolutely no effect but to get all the paperwork right we had to get the D approval then Co hits so D that doesn't work that fast in the first place they went into super slow mode so we finally got our D approval and we turned to Jen and we said hey we're out of time our time expired and Jen thought it would be better if we instead of asking for permission to uh for an extension of time that we reappear before the board and get a new and get a clean fresh approval I had the great idea that my client who is going to live in the home that's going to be subdivided she had mentioned that she might want to make some Chang changes to the home I said don't go to the board and then have to go to the board again so let's put the changed house plans on the map and come in and clean everything up all in one shot so that's what our plan is tonight okay the disadvantage I have is I did not appear in 2018 my engineer did not appear in 2018 and Miss Capone did not appear in 2018 so we will do our best and if you'll let us know if there's anything that we're not providing you we will provided but what I'm saying is we're not as sharp as we'd like to be on this case that's the truth okay all right so I want to start with Mr Mor saell and let him give you the basic overview but I don't want to redo the case from 2018 unless there's things that the board or its professionals want can we get all your professionals want at one time absolutely and I also want to swear in uh Michelle Google Michelle is the daughter of the BLS okay and I did didn't want mom and dad blue to be here tonight they didn't need to be okay Christine you behind I am you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth the yes I uh state your name spell your last starting with Christine Christine Kone with a c Kone is c f o n e Mark saell with a mark with a k c i f is and Frank E L L Michelle b w the Witnesses are sworn Mr thank you sir Mr Calvin all right so again I I I'm going to let Mork start to give you the overview but if it starts going into the weeds I'm going to stop them okay so go ahead sure I have to get sworn in you you've already been sworn in qualification do you accept uh Mark can give you his credentials let's hear it why don't you give us give the board three boards that you've appeared before recently uh sure I've uh appeared before the municipality of Princeton uh Township of West depford and the uh bur of pport and how long have you been licensed I've been licensed in the state of New Jersey my license is active for since 2011 been practicing engineering since 2005 is that sufficient schol what school did you go to I attended tcj okay we accept his credentials thank you okay all right so we start there's quick and then there's like no no go back start it yeah go ahead uh so up on the screen we have a a minor Subdivision map with the aerial overlay uh this I guess we could call exhibit A14 on the list uh it was added late uh this shows the the overall property which is known as block 466 lot 9 and 10.02 uh encompasses a total of 25.1 Acres uh the property is located on Herbertsville Road on the west side across malir Park uh it's also a County Road uh County Road 549 and it's approximately 1,200 feet Northwest of the intersection of Herbertsville Road Newton's Corner Road and squankum Allenwood Road um the property is within two two zones here so it's the A2 and the A6 uh the A2 is the lower portion of the site uh the A6 is the the back portion um A6 is about 33% of the property and the remainder is the the two uh so the applicant similarly to 2019 with the last application is looking to subdivide the property into three three lots uh there's a lot line adjustment in the center to create two commercial Lots which will be known as lot 9.01 and lot 10.03 um those existing facilities on Those portions of the property will remain as they are today uh the third lot which is on the north side of the property or right side of the page here would be known as lot 10.04 um and this would be for the construction of a new single family residence there is a single family home that exist on that portion of the property today um which we can get a little bit into that home is 900 square ft right correct it's a two-story home approximately 900 sare ft when was that built I believe 1953 okay so we're going to replace that yep it's um so we we'll get into that a little bit later on but so the property does have a proposed right ofwe dedication as well to the county of MTH let me just say also everything that was everything that was in the resolution in 2019 we're we're agreeing to all that just the same yeah there was in that resolution there was talk of the I'm preferring an easement of of dedication rather than a pure dedication so and M chair I'll just give some extra Clarity to it right so uh when they filed the application last time originally I don't think there was any rightaway dedication or easement they went to the county county said you got to provide an easement so to not have to come back to the board and change all their calculations with coverage we said right away easement which was fine now they're back here and doing RightWay dedication all the numbers match with a RightWay dedication so what you're seeing is largely the exact same application from a minor subdivision approval perspective that we approved back you know a couple years ago um the lot designation 104 with a minimum lot area of 2 Acres that was something that was specifically requested at the board at that time I think the the lot was actually smaller and they agreed to extend it to make it a minimum of 2 Acres it's split zoned you know A2 A6 so you know they're at least meeting the A2 standards for that what they're really here for tonight is as Mr uh Galvin said on 104 there was an existing dwelling that they were carving off to give it to one of the uh you know uh Heirs of the blue it family they're now proposing to demolish that structure and propose a new structure in that footprint so the subdivision and all that stuff is exactly the same really the only difference is demolish in the old structure putting a new structure there's some bulk relief that's associated with that I'll let them get into that some more so what I would ask next is for I could you help me with a12 mm it's the pl John 82 82 yes sir it should be the one all the way on the right oh the the tab all the way on the right can we make that bigger yeah he will they keep they keep referring to lot 10.4 on the paper that we got it says 10.2 is it is it indeed 10.4 is that does that need to be corrected 10.2 is the old lot it will become 10.04 as a result of the subdivision if they're approved got that's why they're referring it to it I concur with Mr Ran's explanation I'm sorryy go ahead sure uh so this is a plot plan it was submitted with the application exhibit a12 uh this shows a zoom in on the lot 10.04 that we were just discussing that two acre proposed lot where we're going to be placing a so on the on the left is a big is a picture of the whole is good portion of the lot in the house and then the picture on the right is kind of a closeup of it correct it's an enlargement with more detail than than the larger one uh so the applicant's looking to construct a a single story home uh with a total footprint of 3,700 square ft it would have a a single attached garage and then a detached two-car garage uh there would be a new driveway similar location to the existing slightly shifted towards the the property line to the left of the home uh the home would have a a basement a non-habitable basement though at this point uh so non non-finished and we will do soil borings of whatever needs to be be done here uh the the pavement section for the driveway was not included on the plans so we are going to provide that as a condition of approval if so is granted uh that would be in accordance with the town requirements for either asphalt or concrete uh to be determined we have the proposed home will have a total of three bedrooms two and a half BS it has adequate parking on the property for more than the two required parking stalls for a a two a three-bedroom home uh within the garage and on the driveway uh it does have proposed utilities to replace the existing so existing septic field will be removed along with all components of that system a new septic field would be proposed and that'll be an upgrade then right yes so it be in accordance with the the new rules and regulations um and the Board of Health we have performed initial soil testing the results were were suitable for a septic without mounding uh which would be a favorable way of installing it uh there's also a existing above ground oil tank that serves for heating the home that will also be removed uh and replaced with a new above ground oil tank uh there's no gas service in this in this area natural gas that is um the existing well water will remain to serve this home uh and that's located in the the front yard of the property so it'll have adequate distance from the the septic system u in accordance with the septic regulations uh we have uh the grading on the property that will closely mimic the existing grading so drainage patterns will remain the same uh the majority of the site drains from the front towards the back into the into the wetlands area uh like we said before we do have no impact on the wetlands that were discovered with the LOI uh there's a 50ft buffer on those Wetlands we're also not impacting that buffer at all with our proposed development uh we're probably 150 ft off of the transition area with this development um if you want to switch over to the the kgle architectural architectural plan so this is the the proposed floor plan for the home uh it's 3700 squ foot footprint but only 2630 square feet of of livable space there's two encl or two covered porches one at the front main entrance and another one at the rear and then there's also the attached single car garage uh it does have the the three bedrooms two and a half bed and along with other we don't have why not it wasn't yes well I had it I see um was it submitted I thought we submitted a copy of the facade I don't see an exhibit of the facade though I didn't send it today but is it part of the architectural plan it wasn't a color rendering it was just it's a simple home it was uh not part of yeah to give them to to to them to there it is what we have the architecturals does it get any better than that single story home you see that all four sides um lots of Windows within the height requirements of the town let me just let me let me cut you off you don't need to speak to the architectural we wanted to give you an impression of what it is that we're proposing I would Charlie suggested that we should have it I think that's an excellent suggestion Board needs to know what it's buying this is the the look of the building if you want Michelle can go into the detail about the materials again I don't how far you want to Wood I think this is um you know an attractive single family home I think what they've presented is fine okay good just to clarify and add to that right so the reason we asked for the architectur is because they're asking for some relief with the application which I I'll try to summarize a little bit more quickly right um the lot area that's no change from the prior approval two acres proposed were because it's split Zone it's A6 also so they need that technicality uh the lot width as well uh they're proposing 119.5 ft where 200 and 300 feet are required respectively for the A2 and A6 the front yard set back they're proposing 22.6 feet which largely matches the existing condition it's just because the footprint is expanding expanding a little bit and it's being reoriented a little bit um that requires a technical relief um side yard set back I think to the nor LLY property line because they're expanding the footprint uh 17.5 is being proposed where 30 foot is required and then also they do have a detached garage two-car garage um that requires relief along the southernly property line our ordinance requires it to be equal to the building height um which I think they provide a calculation for 15 ft where 5T is proposed so when they get to the planning testim morning and Miss uh M Miss blitt maybe she can provide testimony regarding the need for the detached two cargo garage when there's also a onecar garage proposed with it um what I will say from an engineering perspective anytime we getting an expanding footprint and stuff like that you know storm water runoff and things like that uh we always I always recommend the board to consider requiring drywalls with the application let's open it up to the public and see if there's any concern Neighbors From a sowm war runoff perspective and then you can deter we're we're not going to battle that we're great we're grateful that your help this much help is like fantastic we have no problem providing a dry well if it's necessary although we don't think it's going to have we don't really think that there's going to be much of an impact in this so so I would just clarify it would just be for the increase in impervious coverage from the existing to the provos so it's not like size for the entirety of the new dwelling it's just an increase if there's any impact to mitigate the impact yeah we'd be happy we'd be happy to comply with that and then the only other comment that I I would or two other comments apologize um so last time this was here I think predates when we had any ordinance for like a curb and sidewalk contribution um that is different now there's an ordinance that's inactive where any development um uh would have to either provide cbon sidewalk or sorry provide sidewalk along the frontage or make contribution into the fund or seek waiver from the governing body that's something that the board should discuss as part of the application or provide testimony regarding non-applicability um uh because I Charlie does the area have sidewalk no no so if you're going to Grant the waiver then it would be contingent on a contribution to the fund um same thing I I agree with you I don't think this site's appropriate for sidewalk the curbs but so you'll make a contribution to the fund yes okay okay and then um apologize I lost my train of thought for a second uh the only keep saying yes we're throwing them off it is true uh so and then the last thing I'll say is um uh sorry two things you heard about no habitable basement and I just want to give Clarity so the structure that's there right now it's it looks like twostory from existing condition but there is like a the structure is kind of elevated so there is like almost like a walk-in basement so um even though the footprint is being expanded you know uh they're kind of low in the structure make it more open floor plan kind of thing so I get that um and then as far as the subdivision itself uh where there's two commercial Lots that go there there was a requirement with their approval that there needed to be like an access easement agreement because it's going to be two separate Lots so I just want toate that for the record Dennis before you file the map there just needs to be uh like an easement agreement because the lot line the driveway is on the one lot and then that's going to be identified in the resolution correct and that was a condition of the prior approval so I'm just get putting it out there so it's for awareness any more Charlie that's it okay uh board members okay do you want to hear from Michelle on the two car garage we want to hear from Michelle on the two-car garage not in the exhibit let's go to document distribution sheet one oh go ahead yeah yeah go ahead all right the first one miss welcome hi our engineer says that we want to hear from you on the need for the additional twocc car garage um we have an existing garage there now that is oversized with one door 2019 so we were just going to replace that structure and make it a little bit larger and have two doors instead of one so are you going to park cars in a garage um some people put skis and bicycles probably golf clubs honestly a big box for you know the house is for the wife the garage might be for the husband right so I think um that's all you have to say so I think I'm not allowed to say that anymore am I to further uh Mr Cliff's uh question the um architectural plans for the new home show an attached onecar garage and then you have the twocc car detached garage um will the onecar garage be used to store vehicles or eventually I would hope with my son um yeah so we would have three cars eventually so I was kind of planning for the future so I don't have to make any amendments okay so your two cars probably in the two-car garage and then the additional third car at some point yeah and we think in this location it's very low impact it's not like we're impacting neighbors by having this this garage thank thank you Christie board members I'm good Dennis we're good good so then we're looking for Mis compon yes all right thank you I appreciate it hello I'm back we accept your credentials thank you so uh the only thing I I say I'm extra qualified to testify on this site my daughter swam at camp center and worked at Pine grve so I have driven carpool past this site a ludicrous amount of times this probably has got to be one of the sites I visited the most in my entire career based on my experience as a carpool mom as well as a planner um so in in preparing for tonight I had the opportunity um Mr galvin's office was kind enough to share all the prior resolutions with us probably the most relevant one to my testimony is the 2019 resol solution because that was also an application to create three lots which you have before you to two Mr colum's recollection is is spot on accurate because right in that recation it was a recommendation as the planner though it was not it was the planner's recommendation that the lot be increased to 2 acres to meet the minimum the newly created lot so the one that's going to have the dwelling demolished and reconstructed that V that 2019 application was also given D variance relief for a number of things was to legitimize the commercial uses on the property but also to have multiple principal structures so that relief was all previously granted in conjunction with that application there was a finding that the applicant was used application was used for some 60 years um as its current facility so I think certainly the board could take notice of that with respect to the devarian relief that's required in conjunction with this application because it's really not materially modified the really only the change is that in that application the way I read it it was that on the newly created lot that we're proposing tonight which is lot 10.04 that dwelling at the time appear to be staying the applicant is now proposing to remove the existing 900 ft dwelling and propose a new dwelling uh those floor plans and architectures were previously provided for you but what that does is it does create a little bit of additional variance you need and that that structure will require a front yard setback of 22.6 Ft where 50 is required a side yard setback of 17 1/2 where 30 is required and then of course the um accessory structure the detached two car garage so we would have a total of three garage spaces on site um you did hear the testimony from the applicant that um you know it's essentially going to be used for storage space for golf clubs I think always better to have additional space to put those things in because if they're inside the garage then hopefully they're not outside which contributes to the curb appeal on the property um so I think the board can certainly Grant the variance relief under the C1 section of the statute as well as the C2 the C1 statute is it invokes when you have lawful pre-existing conditions on a subject property or an irregular configuration of a property in the absence of any C1 criteria the board can grant under the C2 or What's called the flexible C if you find that one or more purposes of the of the land use law are Advanced I think the board can rest on criteria G which talks about sufficient space um for a variety of us in appropriate locations and also criteria I which talks about a desirable visual environment the existing structure on the subject property is a little tired and lacks curb appeal and I think the new proposed dwelling will certainly increase the curb appeal on the property the other thing that I would tell the board is that there is a provision in the master plan that does recommend additional um for Lots under two acres in the ar2 zone it does talk about grandfathering for those smaller Lots in the A2 zone so hard to say this is a grandfathered lot because we didn't perfect our approval so it didn't exist but I do think that the board can certainly take notice that the master plan does recognize that there are some smaller existing Lots in the ar2 done and then does recommend an accommodation for those for the bulk requirements associated with that so I do think that that is something that's recognized in the township and to the extent you want to look at this as a grandfather lot as it was previously approved I think the board can certainly consider that so I think we meet our statutory proof our stat burden of proof for the positive as well as the negative criteria I think the board could certainly Grant this variance with no substantial detriment to the Zone plan or the public good this is a um split zones property and the Li and share of the conditions as the exist on the property will exist as they are today and where we're making modifications we're replacing a tire dwelling with a new and improved one so as far as the negative criteria I see nothing that would rise to the level of a substantial detriment thank you Miss cfone you're welcome name I take no issue with Miss kon's testimony okay so board members any questions no okay then can we open it the public please I'll make a motion to open the public all in favor I at this time the chairman has opened this hearing up for members of the public who have questions or comments on this application anyone wishing to speak please come forward give your name and address and be sworn in motion to close all in favor yes I public portion has now closed on this application summation sir yeah very very simply I think we're presenting you a much better case than we did in 2019 we now have the do approval of regarding the wetlands we're now giving you a new nicer residential structure because of the gap in time now we have to make a contribution to the sidewalk and curb fund which is you know what that's what we got to do okay and so I believe that we're better than what you got in 2019 so on the whole I submit this to you thank you Charlie subject of course to Mammoth County yeah so um the RightWay dedication that's obviously goes through uh the county we just asked that once it gets recorded provide a copy for our records if they require something different than just the filing of the map uh and then the only other thing would be the the a easement you know for the board attorneys review and approval just because the two commercial Lots the driveway favors the one versus the other um and then uh I was going to say one more thing uh oh I just want to note uh they they did provide the freshwater wetlands Loi and it was already recorded by deed so that's that's uh already in the record and that was something that we the board requested just because it's it favors that new lot 104 so I get Miss BLS says she's going to build a home and live there but anyone in the future knows what they're buying that there's some wet LS on the property so dry well correct dry Wells and then the sidewalk contribution and the septic septic will be subject to Board of Health M County Board of Health correct we confidence going to very good I guess Charlie or Andy just what we did in 2018 that we didn't talk about tonight I guess it's all all going to be kind of put together everything's covered is what I'm just worrying about everything that was said back then and amended to this new presentation yes Mr Galvin indicated they stood by all of the prior requirements and and prior approval so we'll incorporate all of that into this resolution beautiful thank you okay then what's the pleasure of the board uh members of the board um I was actually one of the members when we approved approved this back in 2019 was it you guys are a good applicant because uh it's got a long history in our town and for a simple thing of benefiting the owners to have a nicer looking uh structure for living I take no exception to that I think based on the finding facts I'm very happy to make the motion to approve we got a motion to approve do we have a second also being around in 2019 and uh this definitely is a step up and beautiful I I uh also a second the motion okay Eileen we got a motion in a second can we have a roll call please yes you may Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes chairman say yes motion carries applications approved thank you thank you to everybody you're welcome you're welcome okay you have to leave a sizable sum of money that's okay yes so she has to go sit outside well in there if you want that's what I was planning on doing all right see you guys later I actually work right off the good business yeah but they also yeah you know yeah yeah okay up in front of us is case number ba 24-5 Jessica bassic this is a bulp variant application of Jessica Basset as applicant and owner seeking bulk variant approval for the construction of a single family dwelling with a septic on an undersized lot on premises known as block 29 lot 6323 Laurel Place expiration date August 15 2024 sir chairman members of the board my name is hunt Parry I'm representing the applicant okay J would you swear that we're going to swear in your Witnesses yes okay you want them all at once all at once is good I'm a little overwhelmed with the technology so bear with it's okay do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you done I do please state your name spell your last for the record starting with Jessica Basset b a s TT Matt Wilder w l d r darel pasel p a s q u a r i e l l o the witness the Witnesses are sworn Mr chairman thank you sir so sir you um you have an engineer I do so let's hear from the engineer first well I okay I unless you want to well I wanted to introduce the applicant so go ahead all right sir there's some questions that I need to put before the all right you got it board anyway um State your full name Jessica Basset and where do you reside 1813 Central Avenue Wall New Jersey are you employed yes where do you work the Salvation Army how long have you been with the Salvation Army 24 years um how long have you own talking to pull that mic a little closer to you so here no no that's a mic if you talk just yeah just talking to that because we're we're hardly picking you up all right when when did you purchase this property I am not let me bring you up to date here yes five years six years oh in 2019 sorry and and you've owned this property since 2019 correct and this property is in your name alone cor have you ever shared ownership of this property with anybody else no do you also own the property next door correct what's the address of that property 27 Laurel Place and uh do you own that property outright or is there somebody else entitled no I own that with my husband with your husband so that's in joint Jo joint title with you and your husband so um you've got an application before the board here for bulk variances in order to to construct a home um have you contacted the surrounding property owners in order to ascertain whether they would be willing to either purchase your lot or to provide um sufficient U property to you to purchase so that you could conform the lot to the requirements of the zoning ordinance yes we have I have I refer the um I guess I'm going to do this make reference to the to the exhibit here and you can buy cell letters yes please yeah you have uh A1 A7 and A8 A7 eight were the ones that were sent out and a n and 11 were the responses okay well then they'll just go with nine and 11 do you need we could accept your re uh representation if no if we have them and we have okay okay yes they're in the record so we're good okay and and so neither of the property the adjoining property owners agreed to uh convey any property or to buy the property for you is that correct correct so with this property what's your intention for this property to build a permanent home that I will live in you're going to reside there with your husband correct okay so it's going to be your primary residence correct uh I'd also now I'd like to make reference to A10 which is are the pictures I'm going to show you the pictures I don't I don't know which it's one exhibit but it's four pictures I think you're this there's a would you describe there's four pictures here that you're going to display would you describe to the board what those pictures are these These are neighboring homes in in the neighborhood that we live in this one I believe is around the corner from us do you know the address of that I don't know this is directly next to us to the left our neighbors this is at the corner at the end of our street probably like four houses five houses down and this is in the neighborhood I'm not exactly sure which exact one that one is so we're showing these pictures to the board to give them an idea of what the in the neighborhood that neighborhood houses cons uh currently are Charlie are they all on conforming Lots so I don't know was this submitted with the application or was this presented as an exit sent the other day okay yeah so I I can't tell you where which property addresses these are or the block and lots um I can tell you looking at Google street viiew today that the at least two of them maybe three of them are not on the same side of uh Laurel Place a buding Lake Louise there one of them may be but I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure without like a block a lot or an address okay my attention in in presenting the exhibits is just merely to show that the appearance of the surrounding properties not not to to uh establish any sort of Prior action by the board and granting the one that had the boards in the windows am I corrected it's boarded up one that one there is there anybody residing in that house do you know I'm not I'm not sure I believe there is it's just in the neighborhood again these were just intended to show what the neighboring houses are looking like what what what should we what should we draw from the pictures just what the appearance of the neighborhood is B very basic very basic one of the houses seems okay to me right right so what what should I confer from these pictures then well once you see the architectural plans and what our our house will appear as our house will appear then so it's for comparison purposes yes sir thank you uh I have no other questions so the applicant board has any questions Charlie yes Mr chair so we have lot I wasn't sure if there was a question coming us we have block 29 lot 63 which is 23 Laurel Place correct and the applicant currently lives at 27 Laural place no the applicant said they currently live in Wall Township the applicant does not reside there so they so they own the adjacent property but and I'll let Mr Bayer add more but as far as uh I had some questions about like merger Doctrine and things like that whenever you have undersized Lots uh especially an undersized vacant lot um if at any point in time the properties were in common ownership and not filed or not created by a a Subdivision map prior to a certain date um the merger doctor May apply and they could technically be merged you've heard them put on a representation that the adjacent property is owned by her and her husband whereas this property is owned by just her so that in itself without going back through the detailed chain of history at least at this point in time you know under the current ownership then there wouldn't be any merger there wouldn't be any mergers is there anything on 27 or is it vac so well let me isn't there a house on 27 Laurel sorry 23 that's vacant the 23 laur's vacant 27 has a house on it so okay thank you do you currently rent that property out yes I have a just for the I I I don't have this marked I have a copy of the deed into my client's name and uh it was deeded by the carmelas and they had had ownership of the property since 1947 so it it that individual we're good sir okay yes we're good anything else on that before I let go of the witness no we're good we're good uh board members any questions for the applicant okay thank you you're welcome now I'd like to call the architect state your name for the board darel Paso are you a license can you give us your credentials please yes I'm licensed in New York New Jersey and Pennsylvania I've been licensed since 2008 I'm a of dial architecture and design where'd you go to school NGIT okay we accept your credentials thank you okay would you walk us through the uh plans for the structure I me it's a pretty simplistic 20 just under 2500 foot three-bedroom two and a half bath dwelling um on a crawl space with a single car garage um to get a little more detail there's a master on the first floor uh open concept floor plan uh second floor has a recreation room two bedrooms and a single bathroom clarify fry you said it's on a crawl space because the garage looks like it has stairs going down you have an older plan I believe there was an update um and there's there's it's on a crawl space now that submitted to the board I believe so no I never got anything other than the ones from February yeah I saw the same thing you said yeah think it happen there copy here and copy on the board all right well okay then can we get this marked yeah you I have an extra [Applause] cop well aren't plans usually submitted in advance so are profession so it can be reviewed by our engineer and plan Charlie I mean that's typical case like can you summarize the changes of what you're is being presented to us the main change was what you picked up on the staircase is no longer present in the uh garage because there's no longer a basement and on the second floor we um changed the window configuration for that uh bonus room or Recreation room to three fixed large panel Windows um at the rear of the dwelling for the for the lake view way so so let's put that on the record and Charlie you can take a look at that yeah yeah you want to yeah if you want to that as an exib we take a look at it so and I just want to give the board uh context on that right so Lake Louise and when they get into the air Engineers testimony uh is a water body obviously and there's a map flood Hazard FEMA mapping for that there's also potential flood Hazard area implications with the property so we'll be looking further engineer Mr wild there provide some testimony there's certain things you can and cannot do within a flood Hazard area there's new rules that were enacted July of last year uh which would probably preclude the installation of a basement on this property um so that's I would presume why that was eliminated from the plan um you know we had some questions about the recreation room and whether you know uh there's no closets proposed for the recreation right so there's no intent to make that into additional bedroom space or anything no that's why we actually made three fixed panel windows at the rear so there can never be operable can never be a bedroom of any sort okay and then as far as the finished floor elevation that's the same as what was shown on Mr Wilder's plot PL yes none of that changed it was basically because of the water table and the location to the FEMA guidelines we had to refer it to a crawl space and and then there's no like full height attic really no not at all no it's very look at trth you see Elations that's changed it so we're talking three bedrooms correct one one on the one on the first floor yes family room dining room and then a recre a large Recreation room on the second floor with a second and a third bedroom correct you have any questions that's all I have for the architect right now I think just um as you know Charlie mentioned uh the flood Hazard area is certainly a concern so I think um we need to hear testimony from the engineer just about the elevation of the site and everything you got it thank you any questions for the architect I have a question go ahead actually for Charlie Charlie or Mr conliff um there it seems to be simple just a bulk variance because it's a a house on an undersized lot what not saying they're going to do this but what would make this compliant on an undersized lot in this C what what are they not doing that they would have to do to make it compliant so so this is a little complex one right so in our ordinance anything that's um I think existed prior to 1981 you're allowed to build on it uh if it's not serviced by public sewer um you can provide a septic system but the minimum lot air requirement is 40,000 square feet um along with that you also have to meet the front rear and side your setbacks of the A1 um the existing property is 13,1 197 ft so 3 acres so it's not meeting the minimum lot air requirement from a septic perspective um from the front yard set back 50 ft R required 44.9 ft is proposed uh from a side yard setback perspective North and South respectively 30 feet is required in both instances 21.2 ft is proposed to the north 29.5 is proposed to the South um rear yard setback a minimum of 40 is required whereas 37 ft is proposed um and then on top of that you also have the underlying I think it's A3 is the zone for this I want to make sure I have that correct yes it's A3 zone so um the lot area is already kind of subsumed in the 40,000 foot minimum but then you have lot depth width um requirements 200ts required 134 ft exist end it's proposed lot width 200ts required 100 ft exist and and proposed those are existing conditions right they can't you've heard them provide testimony on the record that they can't purchase adjacent land because no one's willing to sell them adjacent land uh no one's willing to buy that from them so those are things that are difficult for them to change um building coverage a maximum of 10% is permitted where 13.3 is proposed loot coverage 12 a. half% is permitted where 20.7% is proposed so uh you know back to your original question right there's certain things you can't change if you can't buy or sell adjacent property you can't change a lottery you can't change a lot with lot dep those are given with the property now as far as bulk set backs front side rear perious coverage loot coverage those are a result of the proposal that's before you sometimes it comes down to the bulking and the massing of the structure um right just kind of to add on to what Charlie's saying um in addition to uh the sidey front side rear yard set bats you know which um could potentially maybe they don't meet them because of the size of the lot building coverage and lot coverage are um percentages so theoretically um there's a little more flexibility in meeting those it's just you know you can meet the building coverage but your home may have to be smaller because it's a percentage of the overall lot and the same with lot coverage impervious coverage you know um theoretically any size lot should be able to meet that lot coverage variance um it's just a smaller percentage of uh development that would be permitted understood thank you okay any other questions okay we'll hear the engineer sir okay once again your name Sir Matthew Wilder w l d I'm doing double duty tonight as both an engineer and a planner Charlie yes so is he testifying as an engineer oh i' he's presented to us as an engineer before I'll Christina p is you know from the planning perspective it's not a use variance but you know there is a lot of bulk relief being s so I know um that uh this board does not permit AIC non aicps to uh provide testimony on use variances this is um these are just bulk variances so uh we do sometimes hear just PPS on those ultimately I think in this case um would be to the attorney to decide whether or not he thinks you know the testimony his professional is providing is appropriate okay all right let's hear your engineering uh credential sir sure so I graduated from rad University in 2006 The Bachelor of Science in civil engineering I've worked Solly in the field of Land Development since then I've been a licensed professional engineer for eight years I've been a license professional planner for six years I've testified on the engineering side on probably 375 applications in front of 60 boards on the planning side I've probably done 100 applications on 40 boards I've done not only youth variances but plenty of we'll accept your credentials as an engineer right now sure thank you okay and for what it's worth I was before this board about a month ago on a similar site where it was an isolated undersized lot and I was accepted as both an engineer and Planner on that application okay thank you um so a lot of my testimony has already sort of been discussed by some of the board questions or some of the testimony provided by your professionals um but the Crux of this application is that the property is 67% undersized for the zone and what we're proposing is your typical single family home the home is as uh the architect that testified is less than 2500 ft it's 2441 sare ft give or take the home will not have a basement because it is in a special flood Hazard area um Mr cliff and had had made reference to the regulations that have changed with respect to fluvial flood Hazard areas so the change required is basically the 100-year flood elevation as established by FEMA you add three feet that's your new base flood and you add another foot to get to to the New Jersey flood Hazard area design flood elevation so that elevation is elevation 58 so your finished floor has to be at least 4T above that which put you at elevation 62 we're at elevation 64 and change so we are above that because of the the flood zone limit we cannot have a basement so there was a question regarding the recreation room and we spoke about how there are fixed windows on that room that room really is to serve storage for the home the home will have a onecar garage and a driveway large enough to accommodate two vehicles so the home really because it didn't undersize lot and we did try to squish things as much as we could we needed to create some semblance of storage on site and that Recreation room aside from giving a beautiful view of of the lake provides that additional storage for the property owner uh as it relates to the layout of the design it's typical typical of a single family home again you have a two-car two-car driveway that leads to a onecar garage the septic is in the front yard I know this board is sensitive to septic systems in front yards and the appearance of a mounted system if you will so we had soils testing done for this property and right now the septic system sits about 2 and 1/2 ft above the road which is not going to have the appearance of a mounded system that's sticking very far out of the ground right now I will indicate that the grades on the plan are a little bit harsher than they probably need to be uh we'll revise the plant to sort of blend those grades a little bit better with the street and it will look like your prototypical house where the house sits 3 to 4 feet above uh above the road you're not going to notice a septic system in the front and part of the challenge with the septic system is when you get closer to the water as you'll notice the grve drops off front to back you know good six or seven feet you start dealing with potential impacts to groundwater so because of the the soil testing come coming back relatively positively for the site uh we decided that the septic system in the front yard would be the optimal location um again we didn't want to get too close to to the lake there are certain separation requirements required from the lake the septic system in the front really provides us the most separ ation between the adjacent septics the neighboring Wells the the development or the uh improvements on our property so that was why we had located the septic system where we did um as so from an engineering perspective it's a pretty simple design there there's not much to it um but the application is Complicated by the fact that it is an undersized lot again 13,19 square feet exists where because of the age of this property 40,000 ft is required this prop property was actually created by subdivision somewhere in the early 1940s it was part of the map of Lake Lake Louise um and if you could go to my tax map exhibit for a moment uh there was a question about the the pictures and and whether they were on similarly sized Properties or con conforming properties there is not a conforming property in this part of town at all um so again this is in the AR3 Zone and what I've done is on this tax this is just the tax map for the township I've highlighted the property in red which let's see if I can which is that right there and you can see all of the properties which are but Lake Louis on the east side where the lake is on the west are similarly sized or actually even smaller so when this property was created back in the 1940s there was no A1 2 3 four five or six zone so properties were irregularly shaped because they were really following the limits of the lake and what you had were smaller Lots created so you can get more homes to make take a Vantage of of the lake um if you would to mind going to my aerial exhibit now so this is just showing the adjacent surrounded property with our subject site highlighted in yellow right here so what you'll see is the lake is to the west to the north is single family homes South single family homes and to the east single family homes um the the homes really vary in size and style you have homes that were built in the 1940s that are as small as I think I saw on the tax record 750 sare ft and then you have some newer construction which is this property right here which is based on my measurements approaching 6,000 square F feet none of these properties are on conforming Lots the home that I just referenced that's approaching 6,000 s ft is on a 30,000 foot lot so certainly larger than our lot but still undersized and with a much larger home that home seems to be the outlier for the area generally speaking the homes have Footprints somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 1200 to 18800 foot home area the predominant home style is ranch but there are plenty of one and a half stories and some of the newer homes are similar in style to what we're proposing where the habitable area is two stories with an attached onecar garage so I don't know if I need to re uh uh to go over the VAR that we're seeking as Mr Kliff has outlined again they're a function of the fact that the property is undersized um so when you look at the A1 Zone requirements for the setbacks again we're 67% undersized for the A1 Zone okay so Charlie yes from the engineering perspective the front the the the mounted septic yeah so I can tell you uh you know this been this board's um position at least since I've been with the board that uh mounted septic systems especially in the front yard is not a visually aesthetically pleasing um installation uh if you go down on uh like Maxum Southern Road in town you can see there's some properties with some mounted septic systems and they stick out pretty abundantly clear um I do know and there is is some alternate the designs to septic systems where you can reduce the amount of mounding necessarily uh you know Mr Wilder said the system was approximately 2 and a half ft above the road grade did you investigate that as part of any of your engineering design Mr Wilder the alternative drainage system or septic system yeah so the the septic the elevation of the septic system is being really dictated by the seasonal High groundw which was observed at 48 in below grade um so and again the property is in a the home is in a flood zone there's going to be some grading around the home um so we don't have a substantial crawl space or amount of foundation exposed this is not going to look like a mounded septic system you know typical mounded septic system as you see harsh grades up four or five feet often times you'll see the septic system above or at the same level as the finished floor of the home this portion of the property which will have the septic system will be a good two plus feet below the first floor of the house it'll simply look like the property slopes from the road to the home it's not going to have the appearance of a mounded system what about Landscaping in front of it just something small I mean I'm sure the applicant wouldn't mind proposing some sort of Hedges um I'd have to take a look to make sure we don't hinder sight visibility but if there's concern that and you want a row of of small hedges in front of the in front of the septic system I I don't believe the applicant would so what I can tell you is the Board of Health will usually app on that whether or not planting you know proximity to a disposal field so that might be something that they are not a metal to you know so the zone of disposal that's typically required is four feet Mr Wilder right is there means to to to reduce the Zona disposal to like 2 feet to eliminate having to raise a lot 2 and a half ft in front of the property we can certainly look at certain Provisions um such as doing pre-treatment um we still going to be sloping up from the road to the house so my testimony is even if we had the ability to lower the mound the grade where the septic system is will be is going to be at the same elevation I show in my plan regardless of how we situated it because again I'm sloping up from the street to the property and I don't want to have 5et or four feet of foundation exposed um the architect had prepared sort of a stone veneer for a portion of the front um and to me if that breaks it up the further you pull the house out of the ground one of the I'm sorry you can keep going Mr Waller one of the benefits of this property is you're in a flood zone but sort of right so you have the benefit of overlooking the lake you can't have a basement certainly but you're in a flood zone but you don't have to come up that many feet from the street to to still be fully compliant with FEMA um and and again as I indicated the the area in front is only two and a half half ft above the edge of the road um that will be regardless of where you if we move the septic system into the back and I'm not certain we could do that because of the issue that we have to have 50 ft from the lake another 15 ft to our crawl space that would put the house in very close proximity to the front of the property but config even redesigning the septic system to an advanced pre-treatment system where we can sort of reduce the footprint and the separation the grades are going to be similar to what I'm showing now simply to sort of M the grades from the road to the house so kind of along with you know with the septic system right one of the and it's so there's the visual aspect of the septic system right being elevated above the road and then also like the potential grading impact to neighboring property so uh you're basically creating a turtle back and then you're pushing all the water off to the side so you know on the nor side property line you know they have some graining that kind of delineates what would look like a sell going back to the lake along the southerly property line you know it's certainly hard to tell there's some grades along the property line but there's not a whole lot to the on the neighbors property so that would be one of the concerns that I also have with the septic system being elevated above the rad grate is is it pushing water onto the neighboring properties um you know my comment about pre-treatment and reducing the zone of Separation that's one thing right you know um could the grading impact of the septic system also be lessened if the size of the footprint of the structure was a little bit smaller you have more space to maybe move the septic system away from the property lines that's also something that is a possibility um and we can further accentuate a sale in the Souther side of the property um right now we do have a little bit of separation between the edge of the driveway and the septic system there's nothing really prohibiting us or preventing us from even putting a slight jog in the driveway to more centered the septic system on the property um the further we move from the Southern Property Line the more we can accentuate a sale um the septic system where it's proposed now is generally at the high point of the site so the front of the property really where where the septic system is now drains to the street and everything else sort of drains to the lake as one might expect so we're sort of mimicking those drainage patterns um the roof leaders will all be directed to the rear of the property so they're going directly to the lake and not to any adjacent Property Owners but we can certainly mod tweak this grading to accentuate a Swale to essentially eliminate any runoff being directed towards adjacent properties so and then as a followup with the mounted septic system right so we you said this site is in a flood Hazard area the FEMA mapping has it at 58 adding three so the flood Hazard area elevation is 61 so the grade of the property along the lurel lab property Frontage is 60.3 60.7 60.6 60. six per the property service so the entire of the property is in the floz area right that's correct so is there there a zero net fill requirement applicable to this property there is and there's Provisions to get around that so since the property won't have a basement it'll be on a crawl space the actual area under the home would qualify as that flood storage area we also have the ability to cut in certain areas where to offset filling in other areas and then the last provision if necessary is the D has a mechanism for a hardship um the D is not typically in the business of cond properties and completely removing their utility in the whether it was a one-bedroom house that was 800 ft or a three bedroom house at 2400 Square ft the inclusion of a septic system would require some sort of elevation of the property um so I certainly acknowledge that we need certain Outside Agency approvals but we determine that understanding that this board has been um specific with isolated undersized Lots we wanted to get this board's approval before pursuing a d permit that would then have to be modified and or changed so and I'll say I don't take exception to any of Mr Wilder's testimony you know he put on the record that the property was created by subdivision I think uh Mr Rano provided a copy for my record of the Lake Louise development map and what's on the tax map was plotted very very long ago so the existing lot itself has been there for a long time right so what we're really looking at is the proposed development um on the property a lot of the variants really stems from the skill of the development right size of the footprint you know um so it's up to you to determine as board members whether you feel like you've heard the proper justifications and I would just say I want to add to that as Mr Wilder said right any approval is subject to right so for Outside Agency so just because they don't have a flood Hazard area permit now doesn't mean that they can't obtain it you can't deny or approve application solely that they don't have that in hand it's always has to be a condition of a potential approval so um you've heard Mr wild to put on the on the record should this board rule favorably on this application they're going to have to get a flood eyes eror permit and they're going to ultimately determine whether zero net fill is applicable whether there's a hardship as far as lock rating and things like that um I'll let Christine add if she's got any more planning comments no I think Charlie uh summarized a lot of the um environmental issues on the site that are kind of out of our control but ultimately um what this board is um choosing to act on one way or another is um they require quite a bit of bulk variance relief right for the minimum lot area front yard setback side yard setback on both the North and South sides the rear yard step back um Christine yes is is there a reduction in the footprint that would remove some of those requirements so certainly if the footprint was reduced you could possibly reduce the required um setback variances a little bit um also you know right now the building coverage they're proposing 13.3% where 10% is what's permitted um I don't know off the top of my head what square footage reduction that would be to meet that 10% uh but since it is a small lot I I don't think it would be um that many square feet maybe if you remove the garage how how many square feet is the garage that's a question for the architect or the engineer I think um but certainly uh they could reduce the footprint of um the structure to better comply with um some of the bulk requirements the garage is approximately 423 Square ft that would bring the coverage down to 1331 which would bring the building coverage down to 10.0% so that would if they got rid of the garage they would comply with the building cover coverage and that would also reduce the overall lock coverage slightly yeah it would reduce the overall lock coverage to potentially eliminate at least one on the side yard set back the architect has rais the issue however that our our Mechanicals are in the garage because there's no basement and there's no attic or limited attic and that's in the newly submitted plans that we haven't seen yes well cop what was the original square footage of the house it's the same it's 24 like 24 but if there was if there was originally a basement and you're taking it out how can it be the same square basement what is the first floor area on the new plans is it the same as 1326 and I would note that the southern setback um which is Mr kless noted was 29 a half Fe in his letter that is to the chimney um so it's not the entirety of the Southern building or the Southern Wall it's just to sort of the fireplace that's on that side just for perspective Mr CH I mean does other properties adjacent to or in the area have front yard septics so and are we I mean what about the other properties as far as you know all these different setback requirements are all those other properties in compliance or they all seem so small the properties are very small so I can't talk to the specifics of when those properties were built or anything like that I can tell you that septic rules changed in the 80s so things that were built you know 30 40 years ago there was different set of regulations that appli to them at that time for this sub subject a the Board of Health did Issue a memo um that they would have to present a plan for their approval showing all septic and Wells within 15 ft of the property there's minimum separation distance you know to the building Foundation if it's lab on grade or a basement uh you know 100t from a well to a septic disposal field there's times when that can be reduced if the well is double cased to a certain depth and things like that that stuff usually falls under the purview of Board of Health I pointed it out in my letter when we see things and you know ultimately it's under their jurisdiction um one of the things that you know I brought up was the disposal field to the to the dwelling um being that the basement's eliminated the one Comon about 25 foot required wouldn't wouldn't apply it's 15 foot when it's SL on grade um you have 10 foit the property line typically um but yeah I mean they're going to ultimately have to get Bo of Health approval as a condition of any board action and if Board of Health doesn't issue to permit for a septic system then you know they're going to have to somehow find a way to get public sewer to the site which I don't know where the closest public sewer is to the site and in any event it's an expensive way to go yeah yeah yeah so I mean ultimately the septic is subject to Board of Health as a condition of any board action okay and generally speaking um let's hear the planning side of it sure so we talked initially about the buy sell letters that were issued um the relevant case uh that we're dealing with is the doll Meyer case which is the typical isolated undersized law case there's five criteria associated with the doll Meer case um so the first is to demonstrate that the efforts were made to bring the property into conformance those are the Buy cell letters no adj some properties want to buy or sell our property the next is to submit detailed plans of the pro of the home demonst ating its appearance and that it will comply with the building code obviously it certainly will comply with the building code the plans that were submitted are what you're going to see with the slight exception of there is no longer going to be a basement because we're in flood Hazard area uh the next prong is to attempt to minim comply with the setbacks similar to other undersized Lots so what I'll point to on the screen now is a lot adjacent to the to the right this is the adjacent dwelling you can see how close it is to the proper property line um if if you didn't mind flipping to the aerial exhibit the homes that are in this area are in similar locations um the property to the right is thank you is right here so you can see that the property to the right of that is directly in line the property to the left is a little bit more set back but irregularly shaped which is the one that she also owns the one to the left the right 27 which is the one to the right right to the right right this one yeah so and the question may be well how do those lots have septic systems and they're not dealing with sort of the same constraints we are the answer is they're dealing with septic systems that are 50 or 60 years old U the the regulations were not what they are now um it's just the nature of the be so we we need to comply with the current regulations from the Board of Health for septic from the DP for flood hazard so this is this is not the easiest site I'll be the first to admit that this site has some challenges associated with it um and what we tried to do is take a home that we thought fit in with the area and was sort of designed to be compatible with the area but work within the confines of the constraints that we're dealing with um so as it relates to the the required setbacks to construct a home that would be fully conforming would be a home that that really wouldn't meet current housing Trends um so what we believe we propos is something that's appropriate I don't believe it violates the typical purposes of planning such as light air or open space we do have 21 feet on one side and 31 fet on the other side with the exception of where that fireplace is located we have a front yard setback that meet or exceeds all of the adjacent properties and the rear yard setback is only for a small portion if you don't mind flipping back to my plot plant to uh the the plot plan the variance plan A4 A4 please that's what you have up there John it's the very first tab yep so the rear setback that we're talking about is this little piece so all of this area of the home is compliant with the exception of because of the lake the shape of the lake you have a small portion of the property that does violate the rear stepb so again I I think what is proposed is is is reasonable um the next prong is talking about the traditional purposes of planning which I had already mentioned about light air and open space you have adequate room around the property I will indicate that we're not proposing any accessory uses or structures we acknowledge the fact that we need variant relief for both building coverage and total lot coverage so that's part of the reason the recreation room on the second floor is so important that provides the storage that we need for the property in addition to a portion of the garage for rakes and lawn mowers and things of that nature so we are not proposing those at this time because we're trying to be cognizant of the extent of the variance relief that we're requesting and then the last prong is to deal with the variances sort of in the in the lens of the C2 or flexible variance criteria I need to address the positive and negative criteria when I look at the surrounding developed properties and what we're proposing I don't see any real detriment um Mr cess brings up some good points relative to grading and the location of the septic system and we will ensure that we are not negatively impacting adjacent Property Owners I believe there are several property owners who will get up to speak in support of this application based on the character of of the applicant and the last thing I would want to do is get them to come out and speak positively on the application and then detri and then negatively impact them so I I don't believe there's a detriment especially when you consider the much higher thresholder standard that we need to comply due to the new current standards with respect to flood Hazard B of Health septic Etc and then when you look at the positive criteria I think the home will be a beautiful addition to the area um you have a lot of homes in the area that are showing some of them show their age but when you drive through this part of town one of the most unique aspects is there's no two homes that are identical I live in Jackson myself and you drive down certain homes in Jackson every single house is a B level or every single house is a colonial there's absolutely no variety to the street skate this part of town with the lake you you have a great variety and I think this home will add to that and that is goal ey of the municipal land use law which is to promote a desirable visual environment through good Civic design and Arrangement and then the other goal is gold G which is to provide sufficient space and appropriate looking for a variety of uses this is a property in a residential Zone surrounded by other residentially Zone properties this is where a residential home should be built so I believe the Varian can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without impairing the intent or purpose of the own plan or the Gover ordinance okay Christine um I agree with uh some of Mr Wilder's testimony um this thought you know it is um it's certainly undersized for um The Zone District um and it does have you know constraints in terms of special flood Hazard area um it comes down to Mammoth County's d right but it uh um it comes down to the Board of Health and um DP for the flood Hazard um I am slightly um struggling with how the purposes of zing um are furthered kind of in terms of you know maybe the impacts on the neighbor neighboring properties uh with the septic propos the way it is um and then we're going to open it to public then yeah okay board members any questions for the engineer planner okay Mr Ryan you good I'm good all right then can we have a motion open to public so move second okay all in favor I we're going to open to public at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public who have questions or comments regarding this application please step up to the podium be prepared to give your name and address and be sworn in my name is Sharon prey you can pull that down to you it moves don't Sharie oh I'm sorry you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth the heal you got state your name for record spell your lamp and please provide your address as well Sharon ssen um I been H 60 years one Avenue was a dirt road and so was a little place okay I just dated myself all right uh my backyard is Laural Place faces Mr vasset Mrs vasset property right now I we out every morning and I look at the woods that's not fun I would love to go out my house in the morning have a cup of coffee and see a beautiful home I think it definitely add Beauty to the neighborhood I've been there and watched all these houses being built and there some of them are nice some of them are in mansions on the corner by the lake and um I'm not saying it's not nice but I would like to go out have a cup of coffee and enjoy somebody's home across the street thank you thank you Miss pry you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth please state your name for the record spell your last and provide your address you need to speak closer to that wait maybe it might not be on was on there's a button that right there now it's on hear me now good evening Linda deriso D capital r i o I reside at 27 Laurel plays I love it I would love to have the my the uh my neighbors have a new home next door it would only add to the to the beauty of the neighborhood I can't stress that enough that would be most welcome thank you should I turn it off you leave it on okay thank you thank you thank you yeah anyone else from public not seeing any motion to close all in favor i e we're closed at this time the chairman has closed the public portion of this hearing professionals any last minute comments um the the last uh member of public that spoke 27 Laural place is that and this is for the applicants council is that the property that the bassets Mr Mrs Basset also own okay I just want to point that out for the board's uh record um regarding the relief that's being sought like I think I put on the record about area delot and depth those are things that can't be changed uh all the other bulk stuff is generally relative to the scale of development uh for me with the septic system you know uh I was curious to whether the neighboring property to the South was going to come and have any questions cuz the septic system in the front there certainly is being elevating the property and kind of grading towards their side property line um at the very least I would want to see some kind of revised grading more clearly defining a Swale cuz looks like they've got like another driveway or gravel area along their property line so we want to make sure that any runoff would get to the lake and not onto their property especially since their house is somewhat close to the property line and there might be some other structures there um you know like I said with the mounding there's certainly other ways to eliminate how much you need to raise a property it requires additional pre-treatment which is additional cost um that's not necessarily something the board considers it's part of any L use matter so I'm just throwing that out there um ultimately it's up to the board whether or not you feel the applicant has met their burden and you know um put the proper proofs on the record I'll let Christine add on to it I um will basically just reiterate uh some of what Charlie said um you know the uh the bulk requirements really speak to the intensity of the development um and those are things that uh regardless of the size you know um can be met or um what's proposed can be altered a bit um I think that uh the drainage concerns on the neighboring property to the South well let the expert really handle that um I am concerned just about the location um in relationship to the neighboring property so ultimately it's up to the board whether they think the applicant has met their burden okay Mr Wilder you're going to recalculate the sale yes okay yeah we're certainly not trying to impact any neighbors you want to make sure we don't impact any neighbors of course and then you're subject to all the approvals that are required at Mammoth County correct if something changes and we have to shift the house we're going to be back before you guys okay Mr chair so Charlie reviews the adjusted sell before yes yes okay we we would very likely if this board is we're lucky enough to gain approval tonight we would go to the state and go to the Board of Health and then we would subsequently go back to Charlie for that review I don't want to put the car before the horse this was the the biggest hurdle in my eyes so once we have this approval we would go to those outside agencies and then come back to you guys or to Charlie's office with those approvals and the and the re-engineered plan with whatever changes um we had to make hopefully just being the Swale okay sir final summation I I have I have nothing further I just um this is one of those lots where we're coming in on a hardship application and there's a lot of hardship on this property uh we've done what we can to uh deal with the problems we've got a proximity with the water which creates some some extreme difficulty with the property and I think we've done what we can to address that that issue okay so then what's the pleasure of the board well Mr chair um with that one concern of the Swale and obviously I don't discuss that that uh that they're going to address that and I I'm familiar with building up the dirt in the front of the house and I understand what they're saying because I have it at my house um so with all that being said um I'd like to make a motion to approve this application okay we have a motion to approve with all conditions second we got a second hen Mr burello yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr merens I think this applicant is a victim of circumstance but I think the house is going to be appropriate um I'm thankful that some of the neighbors came up and um I'll vote Yes as well Mr Ryan yes and chairman say yes motion carries applications approved thank you I thank you very much you're welcome good luck thank you Mr chairman ladies and gentlemen thank you okay we're going to hear Miss Alia right now we'll see oh nice to meet you you're welcome missier yes sir we're waiting on one member 10 to 10 we don't have much time sir yes we'll go as long as you tell us to go 10 minutes whatever you want okay case number ba 24-6 Turkish American religious Foundation Inc conditional use variants and preliminary and final major sight plan with anciliary bulk variance relief application of the Turkish American religious Foundation Inc as applicant and owner seeking approval for the conversion of an existing single family dwelling to a place of worship with one caretaker resigning on premises known as block 59.1 Lots 4849 and 41034 windela Road expiration date September 25th 2024 Mr Alfieri good evening Mr chair members of board salvator Alfieri on behalf of the applicant um just a couple preliminary points um the house of worship is a conditional use so uh and one of the things that we put in the application was that we were going to use it for a house of worship and a caretaker's residence the caraker residence is not something we're asking for it's going to be the parsonage residence it's going to be the residence for the the Iman so um we believe that by changing the that designation the only relief we're going to need is the D3 the conditional use release not the D1 relief but we'll defer to the planners when we get the planning testimony at some point uh number two is the application as originally filed included three lots 48 49 and 41.036927 we're going to focus only on Lots 48 and 49 4103 has no no relevance to this application third point and then I'll introduce our witness is that um this is an interim step for this um for this religious organization their goal is to get the house approved for what's going to be a very very minimal use for the congregation and that at some point um when the congregation builds up they're going to go and come back to this board end or the planning board four Lots 41.036927 as an interim location for the for the congregation we we have we figured we're only going to get one witness in unless you guys have more but um so we figured we should have operational testimony so you have have better context as to what this application is about what kind of intensity Etc okay one second John so we've issued any summonses on this no um I believe there was some property maintenance issues uh quite some time uh the only thing that I would add um is if the depending on how long uh and whether it gets approved or not between the time of approval and time that it construction uh goes underway if the structure remains vacant for quite some time we do have a vacant property ordinance that we would ask that uh you adhere to requires registration uh until such time that permits are taken out uh you certainly contact my office and I'll walk you through that uh I've driven by this property several times and did note that uh since its sale or since the start of this uh it has sat vacant so we just look for a point of contact yep and reg problem we'll do that between now and whenever we have to come back all right let's say you first witness okay first get stand get one do you affirm that the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do state your name for the record spell your l stic h satic it's sad I K initial age sad I K and Mr saic what is um stay close to the microphone and did you did did you Pro okay you're good go ahead what is your affiliation with this U property uh I'm the president of this location of tarf Turkish American religious Foundation right and and you're in you you will be in charge of the operation of the facility if it's approved yes now you heard me say at the beginning that this will not be a caretaker resident for residence for the portion of the property it will actually be the iman's residence is that correct yes all right and the Iman will be a full-time resident in this facility if it's approved yes okay and can you tell the board about the act the proposed activities that would occur from in terms of the house of worship for example when would Services be conducted uh it will be on Friday uh noon time uh for a few hours 2 three hours and Sunday mornings about from 10: to 1: and also we have a religious month of Ramadan we like to use it if we can and we have two uh big holidays during the year I like to use it to hours in the morning times so and then in terms of the number of congregants how many congregants do you currently have right now we don't have too many about 12 or 14 and the application we submitted said that you would have up to 28 at this facility is that correct if once you build the congre God willing yes right but you and you understand that as if this board were to approve the application you cannot exceed the 28 because everything was designed to a Max of 28 right now let's dig a little deeper into what you said about these various activities the first one is the Friday afternoon activity that's a prayer prayer service PR yeah prayer services that would be up to the 28 if you ever get to that number but right now it's six 6 to 10 or 12 people right and that's every Friday yes and then the Sunday what type of activity is that it's usually for the kids to get together to get to know each other and hopefully we'll build a bigger congregation in the future and then I'm and that's limited as well you know it's few hours and then Ramadan um that's a daily prayer uh I mean not really but people can stop by to talk to the Imam in case if they have any spiritual or religious questions that's on the Ramadan month of Ramadan yeah and that's that that would only be daytime activity yes and then what about the two holidays is that also day daytime in the mornings now the other days of the week because right now essentially other than the special events the holidays of Ramadan you've only talked about Sunday and Friday yes there are also um there was also an opportunity where if a congregant wants to come and pray with the Iman during the week he can he or she can correct yes so so it's not as if it's going to be closed down all week it's just going to be very limited activity but there's not going to be scheduled congregations you know gatherings say so just if they want to if they want to stop by informal basis right all right now will there be any act outdoor activities at this location no no outdoor activity all right garbage um you only expect to generate essentially household waste is that correct just a residential there won't be any serving to the public there it won't be used for that purpose so so in terms of garbage your your proposal is to have a regular garbage can that a normal house would have that would taken to the street for pick up um the next question relates to the the kitchen there a kitchen on the in the property that kitchen will not be used by the congregation at any time not only for the EM only for the em there will be no food preer no service Food Service to the congregants right um there's a proposal in the application where you had an illuminated sign you you want to eliminate the illumination request and just have a regular sign the engineer will get into that more yes um in terms of uh parking you you once the engineer testifies you testifies you're you're comfortable there'll be adequate parking to handle the congregation as as it grows up to the max at 28 yes okay and I think that's all Mr chair for operations unless you or the professionals have questions yeah so um if you could just maybe talk us through a little bit um the way the architectural plans uh were laid out at least it looks kind of like um the congregation services or prayers are happening where the Iman lives there's really no separation um is there any private space for that person or how does that work yeah it has a it has a small F in the mic it has a smaller room as well that I think is labeled do prayer room on the plan sister pray for ladies yeah but they don't participate in the weekly prayers it's usually like Fridays it's only for men and in that in the in the room where the Iman is going to sleep you proposing to have a couch that opens it's not going to be a typical bedroom it's a couch that opens up right so that room is Dual Purpose it could be used for prayer or or where he sleeps that's what the intent is I okay so it's most likely it's not going to be used for prayers because ladies don't come for Friday prayers so uh it's probably it's going to be for him okay all right thank you all right so Mr Alfieri yes sir you know we're bucking up against the the clock and um you know can we we reschedule to get this as the first application in the future um we have now that we have originally accepted this application and we're discussing it so um before we do that though so we have a smaller congregation that's going to grow into a larger congregation right and so then the question will be you know as you grow the more people you have the restrooms have to be accommodating for larger Gatherings right and uh and then parking right and and and other things which the engineer will eventually go through but yeah can we uh can we look at maybe uh rescheduling een do you have a you want to try for August 12th there's three applications scheduled but one was carried to at the other two are brand new haven't been touched yet after that August 26th has three appliation one was carried the other two are brand new September 9th has two applications September 23rd has two applications August 12th wait let me just my schedule's as bad as yours so let me just I apologize we can yes you're going to be first as long as our team can do ocean August 12th good with you that's fine then August 12 will be perfect ien they'll be first up okay okay perfect all right thank you I ask requested Mr bear or the board chair announc that night without the need for further notice please okay so this application ba 24-6 Turkish American religious Foundation Inc this application is being carried to August 12th 2024 without any further notification expiration date Remains the Same September 25th 2024 thank you thank you sir good night everyone good night good night okay can we have a motion to adjourn all in favor all right we're adjourned dine thank you okay