[Music] good evening Eileen would you please open up the meeting sure zoning Board of adjustment meeting Monday May 20th 2024 I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township zoning board to be open adequate notice haven't been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on December 11th 2020 23 a copy of said notice was mailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger second on December 11th 20123 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of how third on December 11th 2023 said notice was posted in the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the Howell Township Municipal Building 4567 Route 9 Howell Township New Jersey in in accordance with the fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility has been designed with two emergency exits where at are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to what the board May legally consider in rendering their decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times thank you thank you Eileen you're welcome can we have a roll call please yes you may Mr burillo here Mr caner here Mr Hughes here Mr Merton has been excused Mr Orosco I guess he's late or absent I'm not sure uh Mr Stanton here Mr Ryan here miss scotson here and chairman seya here you have a COR great will everyone please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you Andy can you please swear in the profession you the testimony will be the truth truth the truth you I do please St your names for the record Charles conliff CHL FR your professionals are sworn Mr chairman thank you sir ien any approval of minutes there are no minutes this evening any vouchers no vouchers this evening I do we have any correspondence yes I have a letter from Dennis Galvin he's the attorney for case number ba817 a John BL Inc he uh said that they're going to be revising something on the plans and asked that this application be carried to the next available meeting in June which is June 22nd I believe we put them on give me one second without further notice as well yes without further notice and he granted the board an extension of time for seing to that evening yes I'm sorry not June July 22nd 2024 so we're looking at the July 22nd yes okay um with no further notice and extension to 31 July uh he just says to that date so July 22nd okay all right so anyone that's here for case number ba1 18-17 Alpha John blw it Inc this application is being carried to July 22nd with no further notice and EXT exension of time is also July 22nd and that is all the comments or correspondents I have thank you you're welcome all right next up on the agenda case number ba 23-21 German Estrada bulk variance for as built pole barn with sidey yard setback application of German Estrada as applicant and owner seeking bulk variant approval as the AL as built detach garage located within the required setback yard setback on premises known as block 116 lot 24119 West 4th Street extent expiration date July 2 2024 sir yes are you the applicant applicant yes I am okay well can we have you sworn in please do you swear the testimony of give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got yes I swear please state your name for the record and spell your last German estal e s r a DA the witness is sworn Mr chairman thank you Charlie yes Mr chair so uh this application was flagged at the time I guess that the uh applicant went to close out his building permit uh you're required to submit an as Bill to confirm that you built it in courts with the approvals this is an accessory structure um the setback requirements for accessory structures in this zone are equal to the building height both to the side and the rear yard um the applicant provided an architectural plan which shows that the building average height you know average of the peak in the uh um uh Eaves is 11.83 feet so that would be the required setback Mr agar is showing the survey asil survey that the applicant provided you can see it appears to be that there may have been like a layout issue when the foundation for this was installed you can see at the North easterly corner so that's a lower leth hand side the structure has a setback of 12.12 Ft which complies with the setback requirement if you go to the uh Southeast corner it's 10.49 ft so there had to be some kind a layout issue maybe they measured off the fence instead of actually a surveyed property line and that's what we're here today this is in as built condition so it's already out there the whole reason for the setbacks is so that way you have room for grading and runoff so you're not impacting neighbors um what's the zoning on this one I think it's the R50 Zone R50 it's in Free Wood Acres it's off of West Fourth Street okay so uh you know they went through and John right they submitted their building uh permit and everything like that showed it conforming and it just there was appears to be a layout issue so um regarding drainage and runoff and things like that you know this is built and it's been there for at least what John four months at this point now so let's open it up to public at some point and see if there's any concerns from Neighbors um if there is you know maybe a drial or the grading could be solved and if not it could probably remain as is um couple questions I just have you don't operate a business out of there or anything like that okay and then as far as uh it's just a garage you don't have any habitable Space Storage me like uh you know when you cut the grass and all those things I all the things around the house you might have electric F lights in there or something like that or okay uh and then just going forward for the future if I know the garage has a rollup door facing the street so if you are to put in a driveway or want to put one in any time just make sure you go through back to the building department put a plot plan there's restrictions on how close to driveway and Grading and things like that we didn't try to escape no permits I mean no no no no I'm just saying for the future you know if you want to put in a driveway um it just helps avoid potential concerns from Neighbors and things like that and getting all your approvals and then just to give some clarity for the board so if they didn't want to put a driveway this is R50 we don't have any impervious coverage restrictions in this zone so it should be pretty much a formality going to get their approval for that if you check all the papers that I submit on on the permit we put 15 ft but the Mason I mean so you hear the applicants testimony it was a looks to be an error with his Mason you know with the layout of the foundation and things like that um you know we're talking about the rear they're off by you know one and A2 ft you know if the guy had laid it out perfectly uh parallel to the lot line we wouldn't be here tonight so let's open up the public unless the board has any questions or concerns and and hear what all right what they have John let me hear from you real quick please so as Charlie stated uh we have no real issue it's unfortunate that he's off by the foot and change uh but with that being said uh we have to enforce the ordinance as written and it was flagged during the last uh the last inspection which is uh generally land use uh where we check to make sure that the building is where it's supposed to be and that's where we discovered the error uh so there's no uh inspection prior to building uh any kind of structure um we just you know go on the word of the applicant or the uh um the company that's installing these things that they're following the plan as submitted and approved so once again an error in in the layout we have no issues with this uh so it's at the board's discretion thank you John uh board members yeah just real fast is defense line correct so as uh the survey shows uh it towards the bottom here it is off by two feet and it's within his property line uh so it never crosses over in fact towards the back here it seems to run right along the property line so he's okay back there uh but he totally within his right that there's no issue with us with that fence being on his property the way it is thank you Amar you have a question Mr Ryan Eileen Mr Rosco has arrived fly noted thank you Matt I'm good sir good okay so let's open up the public then I'll make a motion for that second we got a motion and a second all in favor all right I we'll open the public at this time the Chairman's open the hearing up to the public if anyone has any questions or comments regarding this application please step forward have any you can or you don't have to it's up well you'd have to be sworn in and give your name so she's the neighbor she's my neighbor man do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God yes please state your name for the record spell your last Lucio tangu t a n g u a y i and where where do you live I live at 109 West 4th Street and my son lives at 115 West Fourth Street in when what do you want to say about the application we have no problem with that my son couldn't come to the meeting but he's is next door neighbor it's right on his fence line you here no problem it's a nice structure we're pleased to see it okay thank you thank you for that all right so um motion to close and no nobody else from the public okay we had a motion to close we have a second I'll second all in favor ien would Clos the Public Public is now closed for this hearing all right so what's the pleasure of the board then yeah okay I'm i' like to make a motion uh Mr chair to uh approve this application okay we have a motion to approve do we have a second second it we've got a second a motion and a second is that Mr burillo made the second Mr canther thank you Mr canther Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Stanton yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman SE yes motion carries applications approved thank you you're done all good Mr stada you can call me and I'll let you know what goes on after this okay thank you I don't want to get into this again not now though no not yes thank you everybody you're welcome thank you take care enjoy okay next case up before the board case number ba 23-24 Christopher cap sasus bulk variant approval to construct a single family dwelling with septic system and an un on an undersized lot description application of Christopher cap sasus as applicant and owner seeking bulk variants approval to construct a single family dwelling with septic system and on an undersized lot in the ar2 zone the applicant also proposes an Associated driveway private well dry well septic system concrete walk and covered patio on premises known as block 183 lot 62 555 Brickyard Road expiration date 30 June 2024 thank you perfect okay perfect thank you we have to enter them sir good evening chairman Uh Kevin UNL here on behalf of the applicant um okay as Mr chair mentioned we're here for a bulk variance approval to construct a single family dwelling I'm going to get right into it introduce uh Mr Wilder from Morgan engineering we'll give testimony we also have the applicant here in the back in case uh need any testimony from him thank you you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you God yes I do please state your name for the record and spell your last Matthew Wilder w l d r i Am the engineering department manager at Morgan engineering uh it's been a couple of years since I was before this board it was during the covid days when everything was done virtually um but aside from being before uh this board I've been before probably 65 boards in over 300 applications I'm a licensed engineer and planner in the state of New Jersey and both of my licenses are active and in good standing what school did you go to I went to Rowan University oh Rowan okay graduated in 2006 great we we accept your credentials that's that's got to be an nit guy all right Mr Wilder you uh you're up with your attorney go ahead thank you Mr chairman um so before I sort of delve into our application I always like to give like a little brief history of the property itself so the property is lost 62 within block 183 and it's more commonly known as 555 Brickyard Road the property's on the east side of Brickyard Road generally across the street from Breezeway Drive um I have an exhibit that I've provided if we can pull that up it's labeled as 03 in the exhibits the aerial exhibit we're going to make now so this is going to be A7 in ours A7 you're gonna have to oh wait I'm G okay um so the purpose of yeah right so this will be marked A7 I have several others is it easier to mark them all now yes okay okay um so the going back a step we have two other exhibits that are by cell letters we provided Buy sell letters to the property to the north which is developed a single family home and a property to the South which is has a very small common property line with the subject property to the north is 557 Brickyard Road and to the South is 549 Brickyard Road to the east of the property we did not provide a bicy letter because that's the storm water basin for C Quail Ridge Estate so we did provide buy CES to the two adjacent property uh two residential property owners and those are in my little flash drive 01 and 02 so Andy so we're marking those A8 and A9 yes okay got it is the property of the triangle in the middle yes sir and I'll describe the exhibits as I go through that um so um the next exhibit is a photograph from December of 2022 that just shows the existing home prior to its demolition um the property was fire damaged and had sat and fallen into disrepair following uh the fire um the applicant had purchased the property um but I just wanted to give the board an idea of how the house appeared uh when the property was acquired and then the last exhibit that I have is a py constraint exhibit um and the purpose of this exhibit is um the property is undersized so just trying to effectuate what the buildable area is on this property if we were completely within the build buildable building envelope um and there's some dimensions that's a little bit tough to to read um but the purpose of this exhibit is to show that in order to sort of build a conforming lot you're building about a 600 squ foot home depending upon the shape so it's a very tough site when you consider the area and the shape and those are the that's the extent of the exhibits that I I have this evening okay great thank you Charlie yes so I'll just point out to the board so I get the exhibit you know it's a irregularly shaped lot there's a buildable lot area that's triangular that you know it's really hard to fit something Square in there um there was a previous structure that was fire damaged we didn't receive a survey of what the footprint of that was prior to the structure being demolished but the Township's code and Mr agar can correct me if I'm wrong does have allowances for building within the same print for fire damage structure so you know just to give the board some context that's they're they're here seeking relief for an undersized lot and a number of variances associated with that undersized lot but you know an owner of the property could conceivably build by right within the footprint of the prior Foundation um without having to come to the board so I just want to give the board that context if you don't mind going back to my variance plan for a moment um so the variance plan which it's like a plot plan um the variance plan does actually depict um in the lower left hand corner of the property an existing condition SL demolition plan which shows the the footprint of the prior home um just for what it's worth that prior home was 774 square feet I certainly acknowledge that the town code allows an applicant to rebuild in the same footprint current housing Trends being what they are I think the marketability of a property with a 700t home would have some difficulty um so we are proposing a larger home than what previously existed but considering the surrounding area and I'll provide the additional testimony um considering the surrounding area and what we're proposing uh we we think it is appropriate but um that does depict in let's see in that area where the existing home was so you'll notice that the existing home violated the rear yard setback as well so even a 770t home still wasn't able to comply with the bulk zoning standards for so how is this property laid out Charlie septic so uh I don't believe there's to a service area to this site so they're proposing a septic with the application um conceivably there's an existing septic system probably who knows when it was constructed and what kind of system it is so a new structure being built here with a compant septic system to today's code is probably a plus with the application um you know I'll let Mr Wilder talk about where they are and their status of you know making an application to Board of Health and test bits and things of that nature uh but you know with that we have different standards it's not just the underlying zoning standards if you're don't have a septics sorry you're not serviced by public sewer the minimum lot area requirements for our code are 40,000 square F feet I think this lot is yeah just under 19,000 Square fet so they do need that variance for the lot area and another another layer with that is if uh if you don't meet the minimum lot for septic you also have to comply with the a1's uh standards for front side and rear yard setb so I'll let Mr Wilder get into his testimony and justification for the relief of those requirements but as you can see you know it's a triangular regularly shaped lot once you apply those setbacks you also get a very irregular building footprint with that as well and as it relates to the existing septic system uh the applicant initially I'll be that picture does sort of speak a thousand words but the applicant initially did want to try to rehabilitate that existing structure and enlarge it um but the township requires any structure that's more than 50% damage has to be demolished as part of that demolition he was actually also required to uh demolish the existing septic system so we're proposing a new septic system in a new well um I know Mr cunliff had a comment in his letter regarding the well and making sure it was encased to a depth of 50 fet um Cas in concrete because we don't provide 100 feet of separation between the septic and the well and we'll certainly do that um but as it exists right now you know the site is is you know quote unquote vacant um and we're proposing the improvements as are outlined on my variance plan um so again the aerial exhibit just sort of shows the surrounding area um I had mainly really prepared this just to show for the buy sell letters this is the property owner at 557 Brickyard that we notified and this is the property owner at 549 Brickyard we notified the most logical property owner would be this one because we share such an extensive or or significant common property line it's a little bit tough to see on this plan there's only about a a 35 or 40 foot shared property line with the property owner to the right but we still wanted to provide that buy sell letter to to you know sort of further and demonstrate the hardship um so if you don't mind something my variance plan so what what we're proposing is a two-story home uh with a two-car garage and your typical uh Apper and sight improvements we have an asphalt driveway we have a covered concrete patio on the south side of the home um and we're also proposing the septic system sort of pushed to the South and we're also proposing a dryw on the north side of the property the the drywell is located right here and that's to receive runoff from the roof and then we have the septic system over here and then the well is right here so the the site is challenging for a number of reasons ignoring the undersized nature of this of the property for a second we also have the issue that a septic system needs to be a certain amount of feet from a drainage basin and that requirement is 50 ft you'll notice on the on the adjacent property to the east there's the fence that circulates the Basin or circles the Basin and it then begins to jog over at that location the Bas begins to get further from our common property line so to to ensure that we have adequate separation for our septic system we had to push the septic sort of all the way over to the right and Mr cunliff had a a a valid comment about showing that a drainage basin and we will show that to make sure that we have that 50 ft of Separation but what is proposed is really typical of a of a you know residential two-story home that you're you'll see you know with new construction we have a covered front porch it adds to the streetcape makes a very appealing home from the from the perimeter and while the house property is currently vacant the prior home whether fire damaged or not I think this is without question an aesthetic upgrade to that um if you don't mind flipping to the constraints exit it so again I sort of gave an overview of of the purpose that this plan illustrates um and you'll notice a few dimensions on the plan so really you know the and the purpose of this exhibit really to show that a conforming lot would be very very small to fit within these setbacks and really to demonstrate that we really try to pick a a home that sort of followed the shape of the property you know the property being undersized certainly impacts the develop potential of the property but also being this uniquely shaped property where so much of the property is encumbered by by the front yard setback really sort of squeezes everything in so while the home is not a you know wedge shape uh like the property is if you sort of look at it in a in a sort of global stance it does sort of kind follow the the shape of the property you know we have the the largest depth on the leftand side of the property where the property is the deepest and as you get further towards the South or to the right the property the structure begins to shrink inside to sort of follow the the property itself self to to not to sort of work within the setbacks or the confines of this property so because of the undersized nature of the lot we do have several variances that we're seeking and I'll I'll run through all them really quick um so for lot area as Mr Kliff indicated for properties that are undersized um but were legally existing at at one point prior to the zoning ordinance the A1 Zone requirements apply for lot area and setback so the lot area requirement is 1 acre and we're 43 Acres so that is the variance that we require we also require variance for both all three front rear and side yard setbacks the front yard required setback is 50 feet the rear yard required setback is 40t and the side yard required setback is 30 ft what we are proposing is 35 ft to the front uh 20.6 feet to the side and then 22 4 feet to the rear we also require variances for impervious lot coverage and building coverage uh our building coverage proposed is 16.3% and our impervious coverage proposed is 22.9% so all of these variances are really just a function of of the property itself with the impervious coverage variances and the building coverage variants it should be noted that those requirements apply to the ar2 zone so when you're a septic when you're an undersized property on septic and you defer to the ar1 Zone it's only for lot area and then the required setbacks for the building and impervious coverage it defers back to the ar2 Zone which uh is a 2 acre minimum so when comparing our property to those standards we're 78.5% undersized so really the the the ju or the Crux of this issue is that the property is undersized and to build a reasonably sized home we do need some some variance relief okay planner have I just want to add some clarity to that so uh with the building and lot coverage so our ordinance does have exceptions for like um ploted lots that existed prior to 2007 um whereas they are subject to whatever the requirements were in place at the time so go back to prior to 2007 A2 didn't have any requirements or maximum limitations for building a lot coverage so while I appreciate Mr Wilder pointing out that you know what's today's current standards they're asking above and beyond that you know with that loophole relief technically is not required for those two so really in my eyes it's just the 40,000 feet for the lot area you know the air2 lot area not meeting that and then the front the side and the rear yard set back as far as variances and you know just to give Clarity too to Mr point right so if you apply this to the 40,000 ft requirement minimum lot area uh for maximum building coverage they'd be allowed to build up to 4,800 feet on a conforming lot I think they're at like 3,000 square F feet for impervious coverage it would be 6,000 ft² they're at 4,200 ft so if this was a fully conforming 40,000 foot lot the size of the structure and things like that are not necessarily like uh oversized for a normal typical size life so I just want to give that context for the board thank you Charlie does our planner have anything to offer nothing else to add okay great thank you um so just to sort of finish up the variance testimony and then I'll finish up going through some comments of Mr cun's letter um we're seeking these variances and I believe it's appropriate under the authority of both the C1 and C2 variance criteria the C1 variance criteria is most commonly referred to as the hardship variance criteria and the C2 is the flexible variance criteria uh so 40 colon 55 D7 C1 of the municipal land use law states where they're in an exceptional situation affecting a property uh a variance can be granted in this I I believe we really have two exceptional situations first is such a significantly undersized lot um clearly when you look at the constraints exhibit and what is available to us it's a challenge and the second is really the shape of the property having just an undersized lot that was rectangular maybe we could work within those confines but we have an undersized lot that is incredibly uniquely shaped that really is the driving force behind the variances that we're seeking so while I believe this is a clear hardship variance case often times the C2 variance criteria provides a little bit greater flexibility and I think this application advances multiple purposes of planning as outlined within the municipal land use law but also some of the purposes of of howl Township uh which is effectuated in their in their master plan um as relates to the municipal land use law I believe this application advances goal a which is the general welfare um the applicant bought the subject property and as part of this Redevelopment demolished a home that was fire damaged and was nothing short of a blight in the area I'm sure every neighbor was was ecstatic to see that structure come down goal e of the municipal Landes law is to uh promote the appropriate population densities to the well-being of of New Jersey citizens again and that really ties into goal G which is to provide sufficient space in appropriate location for a variety of uses of which one is residential so this is a residentially zoned property in a residentially zoned area surrounded by other residentially developed properties this is where a residential home should be built and as far back as 1938 uh when the or the prior home was built had a home on it so this property was developed with a single family home going back almost 90 years but I also believe it advances goal I of the missile land use law which is to provide a desirable visual environment through good Civic design and Arrangement so as I talked about the the house and sort of How It's configured again the house is sort of shaped in a in a way that it sort of works with the property itself um and I think when you look at the architectural plans and sort of the front elevation um I believe this will be an improvement to the streetcape I believe this home will not only will fit in but will sort of improve the streetcape when you have the the standards of new home construction um such as certain Gables of the you know architectural elements and the covered from porch I think this will be an improvement to the street skate um so that sort of addresses what's the positive criteria we still need to address the negative criteria um and and I don't believe there are any detriments from the variances that we're seeking as it relates to the rear yard setback what we're proposing is pretty much what the prior home had and that offset or that setback is to a detention Basin when you look at the property to the West uh the existing home that's constructed at 557 Brickyard has a sidey yard setback of about 20 ft uh based on my measurements which is again very consistent with what we're proposing the same is true for the front yard setback for 557 and I point to that property because that's a similarly undersized property that's less than 4/10 of an acre it's about 11% more undersized than we are and as you get further to the north the property start to get deeper and and and larger Mr Wilder yes sir Andy yes sir and the planner we have the engineer who's licensed on the record and he's going through planning planning testimony which he did not represent that he was going to do yes sir I I thought he indicated he's a license planner as well so he can do both you can okay just you put that on the record your planning credentials sure I don't remember that so I've been a licensed planner since 2018 so I've been a license planner for six years I've done applications everywhere from use variances uh to Applications such as this for single family home variances um on the planning side I've probably appeared before 30 boards on maybe 75 applications and i' every board I've been before I've been accepted as an expert to provide planning testimony John to give Clarity to that so this board in the past on use fance applications has required an aicp which is a national licensure this is not a use variance it's a bulk variance a c variance has a c a lower burden of proof and standard uh in terms of ml so uh um I wouldn't take issue I've had Mr Wilder provide similar testimony and other boards throughout ocean and M County all right thank you CH okay Nega NE negative criteria yes um so again when you consider the surrounding uses where they're constructed I really see no negative or detrimental impacts to our application um when I was talking about the existing front yard setback uh we're generally matching with 557 Brickyard Road has and if you look further to the north these two properties are generally in line so I think we'll have a pretty continuous sort of streetcape when you look at what how the properties appear from the street so I really see no detrimental impacts from the variances that we're seeking um and then just to to really speak to the master plan or the zoning plan um I did review the uh Township's 2022 master plan land use element and that actually had a specific application to our property so that spoke to land use uh recommendation number 10 which said in the case of existing structure which is more than 50% damaged the existing home is required to be demolished a new home can be built on the same footprint but if the footprint is expanded the development must comply with the bulk standards in effect so I think that the township was was attempting to you know promote the Redevelopment of of properties but when a property or a structure was was significantly damaged rather than trying to save that structure and and put a piece meal structure together they wanted a brand new structure that would really enhance the street gape so I I believe we're doing just that um so with that being said I do not believe the variances that we're seeking are cause substantial substantial detriment to the public good nor do they impair the intent or purpose of the Zone plan or the zoning ordinance okay so unless I can simply agree that we'll comply with Mr Cliff's comments if you'd like me to go comment by comment through his letter I'll happily do that as well let me just hit the highlights of it so um our M plan recommends a 50 foot right away for Brickyard Road there's 41 A2 ft so they're deficient 8 and half AC cross the frontage it's an undersized lot I don't think we should take right away dedication because that further exacerbates it but in these instances we have required raway winding easements is that something that the applicant would be amenable to um we will we take no issue with that as long as we can still measure our setbacks to the property line rather than to the road widening yeah so roadway widening easement it doesn't impect the Boldt standards or anything like that so it's it just gives the township the ability to widen the roadway put infrastructure as needed if there iser ever is a time in the future that they desire to do so so we take no issue with with providing that e so and then um if there's any intent for emergency jeters and AC units um you know those are going to need to be shown on a plot plan at some point in the future there's ordinance section 18819 which talks about emergency generators uh noise airl open space all that kind of stuff uh bedrooms there's are there any bedrooms in the basement there are no bedrooms in the basement or the habitable attic and we take no issue with the deed restriction and of the same so so Charlie how many bedrooms were in the first in the burnt out structure do you know I do not believe that their plan indicates that Mr Wilder maybe can provide some Tes there were there were two bedrooms a small kitchen and then like a utility room uh and we're proposing four bedrooms and the septic system is is being designed for that and um again we take no issue with a deed restriction that there's no basements new B no bedrooms in the basement or in the habitable are you going to show us an architectural of what you plan on putting there architectural plans were submitted we can bring those up um I will do my best uh to just simply refer to them um so this is the front elevation of what the applicant intends to build Mr Kliff did have a question regarding on the right side of this plan there's some Cabinetry in that covered patio um I can provide a little bit of clarity that really is just going to have some Cabinetry a sink and then a small refrigerator we're not going to have anything under that covered patio for cooking it's more just sort of a little bit of an outdoor entertainment space this is the right side elevation if you're standing on the you know look from the south looking north um there's two patio doors that provide access to the wait no this is the front the right elevation excuse me um so again the the the con the architectural elements continue from the front or all the way around the house um this is the rear elevation you see additional patio doors we're complying with the height requirement Here Charlie uh I believe so John what does it say in the architectural there I didn't flag them as such so are I think 35 feet is the maximum permitted here what are they to the the ridge there john 35 yeah so and we're average for Building height so it's the average of the eaves and the and the ridge so if the peak is 35 feet they're below that okay um the like French doors are that you kind of have in the back there there's four sets of them are you putting any patios associated with we're going to have a landing um and the impervious coverage number that I indicated that 22.9% doeses include a landing out of those doors um that was an oversight on my part is uh we didn't show a concrete landing outside of those doors so that 22.9 just includes a very small landing outside of those French doors okay okay Charlie you're you're on still you're going through your so I would I would just say if there's any intent to put something a little bit bigger of a patio other than a landing um maybe Mr Wilder can put some testimony on their record on some kind of a footprint now so that way you even though there's no impervious coverage restrictions it is an undersized lot we can kind of hear what that size patio might be so we could get it in a resolution so they wouldn't have to come back to the board if the board were to look favorably on this application sure um so right now the way the site's been designed we do have some outro entertainment space and we sort of pushed it to the right hand side um ideally uh I'm sure any potential buyer whether the applicant intends to build this home for himself um or if if if it's sold to a new developer um they might appreciate some additional outdoor space that's maybe not directly visible from the street um so I do believe that an additional uh additional impervious coverage in the rear would provide a little bit more um privacy for property owners to to occupy that outdoor space and I had assumed an 18 by5 Landing I think a 10-ft deep patio in that area would certainly be appropriate and I could tell you the additional impervious coverage would be would bring us up to just over 30% so the variance we'd be seeking would say call it 30.5% and that would give us an 18 foot wide patio that's about 10t deep I I think that would be more than appropriate for any potential so I'll leave that to the board's discussion and discretion I only ask the question now I just we're here seeking all the relief as part of the application you know 22% versus 30% on apologize hold on 20 that's not right then hold on see you make an engineer do calculations in the SP of the moment we fall flat 23.5% I apologize so it goes to 23.33% would help me to make sure I didn't make another calculation error so 23.5% I apologize yeah I mean like I said there is no impervious coverage uh restriction for this it is an undersized lot um usually on an undersized lot you're concerned about the runoff going to neighboring properties and you know grading and things like that uh you know maybe we can hear from public if there's anyone's particularly concerned or if anyone has an existing drainage concern maybe that might be something for the board to to weigh in their consideration on whether or not they take exception to the additional patio I just bring it up because you know we see a lot of these especially with like pools and things like that and uh contractor comes in in and tries to sell you additional cuz I'm already out here and then you know inevitably we see people here on as builts you know coming back to get approval for something when we could have just maybe hashed it out as part of the hearing for the application um and then just a couple more comments with all the septic in the well uh we just asked a question because it's a tight site right ultimately it's subject to Board of Health review and approval their review for separation distance to Wells and septics on other properties and things like that so they'll have to get uh Port of Health approval have you done any preim testment just for like water table I know you're proposing the basement as well so we haven't done testing that would qualify for the M County Board of Health um so we certainly will provide that we wanted to have this meeting because if the board were to change the size of the house or the location of the house um the requirements are that the the test pits really need to be within the footprint of the septic system um So based on the the soils data that I reviewed um based on the nrcs web soil survey I I don't I'm not concerned about the soils being subpar for the for the design of a gravity septic system um and with this board's approval the very next step would be that we we uh performed that soils testing witnessed by Mammoth County and and designed the septic system John just can may I ask um the existing house and the existing sepic do you know if there was any issues I'm not aware of any issues um my my client purchased the property when it was no longer habitable um and from what I understand the prior owner was not the best resident in town um so we're not aware of of whether the existing septic had any issues um but again if if if we come back and do some soil testing and it unexpected unexpectedly is poor there are things we can do we can do pressure dosing we can do fill and closed we can provide pre-treatment all all of that would allow us to shrink the footprint of the septic system so again I have I have no concerns about designing a septic system to accommodate this development so what I'll say is cuz it is an undersized lot and the septic system is quasa in the front yard area because it's a regularly shaped when water table is high there's separation distance from the bottom of the field to water table you know sometimes there's a need to Mound the septic system that can kind of look a little out of whack on a small lot so uh I would just say if the test pits in the septic design requires mounding that the board require the applicant to come back to the board for that um just because every foot you go up on an undersiz lot it's less room for grading swells and things like that uh ameliorating you know concerns from Neighbors as far as runoff so um knock on wood test pits are good water tables not an issue and they don't have to come back but if there is and this has to go up two feet and the whole site has to go up two feet to make it look like a normal house and lot you know I think uh that gives us another bite at the Apple you know we don't want this stick sticking out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood right so what do we have in the area I'm in that neighborhood or that area so some houses that would look comperable to this but then you also have some that's a mix yeah okay and for what it's worth I did drive the area I don't know just simply by driving the area where all the septic systems are but I did not take notice of any of any mounded septic systems that sort of stuck out um and again if the concern is that the the township doesn't want a mounded system there there's things we can do to sort of address that so um I'm I'm confident that we'll be able to provide a septic system that does not detract from what we're trying to accomplish with the Aesthetics of this property and I mean from a aesthetic perspective right it's in the AR agricultural rural estate Zone what they're proposing is kind of like your farmhouse style facade finish so would it look uh like it fits in in like Mana Squan or something like that probably not but for you know this part of how or it's a little bit more rural um you know I think the aesthetic fits in it's really just a matter of you know the scale and it being undersized is kind of what what they're here for uh and then just a couple more comments that I just want to clear so you'll provide a calculation for the water quality stor for that drywall yes sir all right and then uh any utilities should any new ones be required you know you'll have to obtain any Road opening permits for for those utilities and then uh it's over 5,000 ft of disturbance so they need fore old soil and you have no issue addressed in the plat details that is correct I think that's really all I have m board members Mr Ryan coverage 22 maximum building coverage so the building coverage we inadvertently excluded the covered patio on the south side of the home as it relates to the total impervious coverage I believe my designer just had a had a drafting error um so should it have happened absolutely not but unfortunately it did but prior to this meeting I specifically check all of these numbers myself and the numbers that I presented to you this evening are the accurate numbers that we're that we're proposing so the lot coverage we're going with now is at 22.9 so 22.9 if the board so sees fit to allow us to have a patio in the rear and as was pointed out the the impervious coverage is is not actually a variance um but if we wanted to just include a patio in the rear we'd be looking at 23.3% ex to round it up to 23.5 but that would allow for some outdoor space in the rear of the home as well and then the the building coverage as I indicated was 16.9 % Mr chair I apologize just two last things so uh the residential driveway you'll comply with the ordinance requirement if it's asphalt it'll comply with the section or if it's concrete or paver it'll comply with the ordinance requirements yes and then uh we have required on similar applications either the applicant provide Curbing and sidewalk across the property Frontage uh if the board is not inclined to to require that because it doesn't fit with the character of the neighborhood with you know similar frontages the board can grant a waiver but the applicants required to pay into a fund um so I'll leave that up to the board's discretion so it's either they install it now or doesn't fit in and they make contribution to the fund and then the township some in the future has some other areas in town where it might be more practical and applicable they have you know the fund to to dip in to do that so Andy you want to say something I have nothing Mr chairman other than it's going to be up to the board whether it wants to you know Grant approve the house as is or propose any changes okay do we want to open this up to public John you have something uh the only thing I have is um if the board so uh approves it uh that it stipulates that any violations which I'm aware of one in looking into the system uh there was a property maintenance issue and a summons that was issued in regards to that and that's just based on some garbage that uh was either left there blown on there or it's on the property they attempted to contact you I don't know if maybe they didn't have the updated information but uh I'll provide you the name of the inspector that's been out there and you can work that out with them and all we asking that that just be taken care of absolutely yep without saying okay do we want to open this up to public motion to open to public second all in favor I I I think we're gonna open this stff to public at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public if anyone has any questions or comments regarding this application please step forward Andy we have two want are you both together or are you okay so we'll one at a time one at a time then if you could step up to the podium so we can get you on the record please you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got please state your name for the record Todd Winer and can you spell your last name we i n e r and uh what's your address 549 Brickyard Road the witness is uh sworn Mr CH you can you can raise that mic so you don't have to there you go thank you that right next door sir question for the uh planner engineer I don't have any questions I would like to just make a short statement okay uh I live on the adjoining property I live on SL basically an acre a little less my house is 2400 Square ft that is reasonable but just it what this proposal asked is to put a 3400 Square ft another th000 Square ft larger than my big house on this tiny little lot this is not reasonable the septic system they're going this huge septic system that is right on my property line is not good is not going to be good for the environment this house will is not going to improve the quality of life for any anybody in that area this house is not reasonable for the size of the lot that's all I have to say Thank you Mr you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the true C got yes sir St your name for the record Daniel dagati and spell your last d e l l i g a t TI and where do you live 557 so um little bit north okay um although I don't really have concerns about building I appreciate adding the value I am concerned about the distance between the property line and my property line uh 20 feet is pretty close um takes away a lot of the Privacy I don't know if where we have the option or ability to work on anything to provide some different structures to help with the privacy um going from a 700t house to 32 3300 is pretty significant would be an adjustment um but yeah that privacy is and then also the distance from my property line to the the new Mr chairman yes would you can we point out both of these gentlemen's houses on that again Mr Weiner's property is this property here and then Mr delegat's property is this property here and how big is that property his property7 it's like it's more of the way that the new construction would be angled the back part would be basically like very very close to that tree line there that like our backyards would but up pretty close to each other those arid yes so it those are going to grow pretty tall right let's hope so they started little there you can see it the applicant is also willing to put a a six foot privacy fence along the common property line if that is a concern um we could propos evergreen trees I don't know if we need evergreen trees that back up to Evergreen Tre I think in this circumstance the privacy fence would probably be more useful but we we have no issue doing that to address Mr delegat's concerns we've heard you sir thank you thank you thank you Charlie yes Mr chair going from 700 to 3400 I mean it is an increase from the structure of that that's there um you know can can we reduce the footprint I mean certainly it's up to the applicant whe to reduce it if they if they want I mean do they need the covered patio with the um they're putting a basement in they are putting in a basement as well contingent on you know test pits for water table and everything being uh amendable to that you know they can't have a basement in in the wood or table you know yeah so so my only question I was gonna ask this earlier so I'll ask it now in light of the testimony um is there a reason why this house needs to be this big so when the applicant initially uh bought this property uh he bought it for his family um the process has been a little bit longer than he anticipated at the time he had I believe a 2-year-old and his wife was pregnant um so he was looking to buy the property and and when he contacted when he acquired the architectural plans it was to sort of serve his his growing family um I certainly understand the concerns of um of both of the neighbors um I just do you mind going back to the area what did for me just to sort of address Mr Weiner's concerns um so our septic field is in this area our septic field is 40 feet from the nearest portion of the property line of Mr Weiner's property and I'm losing my light but Mr Weiner's prop property is sort of immediately East on this plan or south of this of the existing storm water basin significantly set back from the property so as far as Mr Weiner's property and this property is concerned to see the back of this property if you're concerned about the size of the property you're looking past all the vegetation that surrounds that existing Basin um and again I certainly appreciate Mr delegat's Point um but what we're proposing is a home that we believe is appropriately sized for the area if the question is can the home be made smaller the answer is always yes I I can't say definitively that the home can't be made smaller what I can say is that what we're proposing we believe is appropriate for the area um and we think it would fit in well um and you know we're certainly open to have some additional conversation or discussion but um my concern is undersized lot very large septic system for a 3,400 home so the size of the septic it it's it's something we haven't done in northal for a long time you know we've gone from ar2 to AR6 for these reasons A3 so that we can get the septic fields away from the residents and here you're proposing to drop a big septic field right in the middle of this area so even if we were to reduce the size of the home in square footage the septic field is based on the number of bedrooms so it would still more than likely be a four bedroom home just because that is really the going rate for housing Trends I mean are there three bedrooms home homes there are um that they're not as desirable so even if we squished everything into a smaller footprint our proposal would still likely be for a four-bedroom home which would really not change the size of the septic field Mr chairman go ahead Mr com Please Mr Canon go ahead um my concern is that two of the the adjacent neighbors have expressed concerns with the property and I think they have a right as neighbors to expect that the board comply with the Township's regulations I mean they they do have homes that are existing I agree with Glenn I mean it also doesn't seem that although you guys say the size fits the area the neighbors houses are I'm not going to say significantly smaller but far less than 3,400 square foot it in my opinion it does not fit the area yeah I mean that and to elaborate on what I was explaining earlier about the style of homes in that area there are you have your original homes and then you have some of the more grandiose homes but they fit the property so I'm going to add that into it it does fit the property which is why I'm asking if there is any reason why the house needs to be that big because quite frankly you could be a smaller house and still do if he's deciding to sell this as a resale he might do okay with it but not but but again that's entirely his call if he's planning on living there and this and he can reduce the square footage either way I don't see a reason why it can't be reduced could we have maybe like a five minute moment talk to my client I we're gonna take a 10 minute bre Mr chairman before you do that um we never close public oh thank you I'll make a motion to close public second all in favor hi hi I we're closing the public okay the public is now closed CCH and the is going to take a five minute recess 10 minutes 10 minute recess they'll be back at 8:15 we're back the board will now reconvene uh certainly appreciate uh affording us a few minutes to speak with my client um hopefully we have a proposal that the board will will appreciate um so we will reduce our building coverage from 16.9% to 13.5% and to to accomplish that the covered padding on the right side or the South side of the home will simply be a patio it will no longer be covered um which means no cabinets no sink fridge all of those things and then additionally we'll reduce the size of the home in footprint by 381 square feet which is about a 790 give or take square foot production in living space so the result would be just over 2600 square feet um so hopefully you know understanding uh we certainly want to be good neighbors um but at the same time we do want to make sure that we have enough room for four bedroom homes which is the current housing Trend so hopefully um at a 2600 a little over 2600 Square F feet um the board thinks this would more fit in uh in the area and on this property you know the board is still concerned with the size of the you the septic field that you're showing and the only way to make that smaller is to reduce the bedrooms you had it bedroom on there if you made it a three bedrooms it'll be a smaller field and we might be able to get there with a reduction in the size of the lot so I mean The Bu the building size yeah the septic system will meet all of the required setbacks from property lines um from the drainage basin to the east from the well because again the well will be encased in concrete down to a depth of 50 ft so the septic system would meet all the requirements um as Mr cunliff indicated if the board wants to avoid the need for a mounded septic system due to high groundw and if that turns out to be needed for the design we' have to come back before this board but as far as the septic system that I'm anticipating uh constructing on this property when you drive by this property will simply be lawn area um the the septic system will will not be visible with the exception of clean ups at the Four Corners um we do believe that in the current market uh that four bedrooms is important um there are other things that we can do to reduce the size of the septic system such as doing a pressure dosing system where you put a pump tank after the the septic tank to reduce the size of the system but again I mean my position or my my thought is that it's just going to appear as lawn area so and again it meets all the required setbacks um for a septic system so we would really like to Main maintain the four-bedroom home just because it's really the current housing market is is that's really what is appropriate did anybody check um prior oil tanks and cess pools in that property because figure in 1938 chances are there was at least one or both so as part of the U demo process with the building department there's a check list for all those types of items that the person who's demoing the structure needs to provide so it's a it's a checklist of Border House tanks making sure that all uh all that stuff has been uh appropriately abandoned or taken care of Charley i' like to confirm does he meet all of the setb and requirements for the current proposed septic tank so as far as the septic system uh you're required to be 10 ft from a property line they comply with that uh you're required so it does comply yeah yes so certainly we reducing the number of bedrooms reduce a footprint of the septic field yes uh my recommendation would be to the board you know you're hearing the applicant put representations on like reducing the footprint and not a cover patio and things like that I would say especially since there's concerned residents and neighbors like weed as board would want to see what that reduction in the footprint might do to the building layout and how that impacts it setbacks you know if you're shaving it off for the one side of the structure does that mean that you know 20 foot side yard setback is 24 or something like that maybe it's making the condition a little bit better for the neighbor who was concerned about the proximity to to his property um you know and that does give the applicant some more time to maybe think about the comments that he's heard from the board members regarding the size of the development and the size of the house and the number of bedrooms and you know way that appropriately and come back with a revised plan I agree with Charlie yeah we're on board okay so what would be the next hearing date that we'd be eligible Oh no I got the side eye with that question or schedule is not pretty you are probably looking at August 12th we don't have a choice we don't have a choice give you a chance to clean up the property too take care of that violation they were that's when they get and it takes up smaller surface space so I sque in June can adapt like different technology my old otherwise you're looking I wish I could say yes to thatu size and structure so we said a treat we certainly don't want to put theard you guys a yeah just extension option I'm assuming sounds like it yeah I just know the option Mr Mr chairman no it's not bad I know hey Paul we're we're we're good for a they're good August 12th all right so there's there there's discussion here as well and uh we we uh you know we'd like for you to consider all options right and that is leaving the piano leaving the p patio and reducing the house yeah patio is nice you know aesthetically it's a beautiful house understood so just so you know when we you know look at plans and discuss architecture just to make sure we don't come back before this board and have the same conversation is 2600 Square F feet unappealing to the board I think that's going to depend on the residents the neighbors perception of it but I I mean I think you're making a valent attempt okay my opinion yeah that's a sure that's a whole Cape taken away yeah I mean I think you guys are are making a great attempt to appease everybody sure and for what it's worth as it relates to maybe the position of the house to the east of us is a storm water basin so maybe we can sh shift the house away from the residence but violate the rear yard setback a little bit more because we're abing a a res a storm water Bas instead of a residential that appears to be um a path forward okay Charlie yeah I mean you've heard representations about shrinking the the structure I mean you know still comes back to the boards it seems like there was a concern with the number of bedrooms being proposed like that is something that they're going to have to weigh when they come back you know um you know I get it you know there's a condition or agree to a DE restriction on no habitable basement and you know no habitable attic the attic space does have Dormers you know code enforcement isn't out there fire department is not out there doing fire inspections on every single residential structure to see whether or not people are converting space to bedrooms and things like that certainly eliminating a bedroom from the floor plan if something does get done after the fact you know at least we know there's one less bedroom on what's showing on the FL plan thank you Charlie Okay so application case number ba 23-24 Christopher cap sasis this application is being carried to August 12th yes with no further notice and an extension Time end August we agree to W time thank okay thank you thank you very much for your time to see thank you guys thank you you thank you yes I hope so okay next up in front of the board case number ba 24-19 it's excuse me that's a typle it's actually 2409 2409 yes thank you lead Inc law enforcement against drugs and violence temporary use permit description application of lead as applicant and AA Martell Hal LLC as owner seeking a temporary use permit to utilize the parking lot adjacent to the Escape movie theater to host a lead Fest festival carnival including amusement ride game booths and food stands the applicant indicated the event will be in a self-contained space within the parking lot enclosed by a 6ot high fence with strict security measures in place with 24-hour supervision on premises known as block 25 lot 5406 Route 9 and Lanes Mills Road uh good evening Mr chairman members of the board your professional staff members of the public uh my name is Peter clauser I'm an attorney with the firm hbr Pape I'm Ken pape's partner you're used to seeing him a lot more than you are seeing me although I've had the pleasure of being in front of this board a number of times in my career um the description that uh you identified Mr chair is is perfect for the application so where there's a procedure by which we come before the zoning board because you're a board that's familiar with land use and and how uh different uses work and we ask for you to make a recommendation to the township Council Council um to allow the temporary permit and then the council we have to have to appear the council is um actually the The Entity that would issue the the permit so what we're looking for from this board uh is a recommendation to the council that you're comfortable along with if there's any conditions that we come across here uh which there are uh to comply with certain other reports um to the council uh those conditions and your recommendation that's what we're asking for um lead is the law enforcement against uh drugs I have two witnesses this evening John fle who's a rep with lead um you can tell by the shirt he's wearing and then we also have Jeff Albert um who's got a wealth of experience in actually running these type of events uh for the carnival company that's hired uh so lead hires a company to come and put on the Carnival raise funds for drug awareness for the house Police Department um and uh and then they handle the the the setup and the and the breakdown and the operations and uh from speaking with Mr Albert he certainly seems like he has an awful lot of experience in this area so if I could I'd like to have both John and Jeff sworn and then I'm going to ask for John to take us through a little bit about what we're doing and then that way they'll both be sworn and they can answer questions as they come at the same time Mr clauser yes sir I was going to ask you do we have the permission of the Green Leaf shopping center yes and I think that's something that Mr uh can speak to okay all right go ahead you the testimony here would be the truth the Tru the truth please state your name for the record and John you start please John fle I work for lead uh f i n kle e I'm Jeff Alberts I work for R hoer shows a l b r TS the Witnesses are thank you sir so John if you could uh just share with this You Know Your Role with lead and and what we're proposing here and we did have one question already from the chair about our permission of be on this site M uh my my name is John fle like I said and I am a regional director for lead I am here because our CEO Nick tomaro cannot be so he asked me to step in for him uh we have worked with with Hal we are drug and violence prevention program lead stands for law enforcement against drugs and violence we are a k through 12 um drug and violence uh curriculum that we provide to train police officers and Educators to uh go into the schools and teach our curriculum which is a 10we course uh with that like I said we Hal has been with us since our Inception 10 years ago we've had a strong working relationship with uh with Hal and uh we are a 501c3 and a charity and one of the ways that we raise money is through fundraisers and we've been working with uh um the organization here for quite a few years I I believe uh we we've been doing this Nationwide and and we have a strong presence in New Jersey because that's where we started our our company okay do are you comfortable sharing with the board a little bit about what the lead Fest is what it is that you're proposing as portless Carnival sure so so what the lead Fest is it's a uh we we do a u an area in in usually the parking lot areas um we do have it on County Fair property areas as well all right but what we do is we set up we we're working with them and we set up the carnival and and uh we raised the funds there uh to be able to support our program and to support uh the programs that we were working with or challenge one of them Jeff do you think you could share with the board a little bit about your experience in this area and and maybe what you what give us a little bit of a picture about how the site operates security things of that nature I've been with our company for 44 years I my brothers were bosses before then I graduated high school and ran away with the carnival by choice I wanted to do that my whole life I enjoyed it um basically we the the fencing is usually 8ot I heard that 6 foot usually we when we rent it from Long fence and all it's 8ot if that helps um we have a controlled area that the fencing gets put up only time it's not there when we're bringing all the semi trcks in to spot everything to put the rides where they go it's organized so you can drive the fire trucks police are there all the time time we have our uh people on our Management on at all times for security 24 hours a day our people that work for us live on site at certain places some not uh we have a controlled access for a gate we charge admission lead does so we keep the Riff ref out and we have you know the rides are put periodically where they want to go to kind of keep the flow going every lot every Fairgrounds Carnival lot is a certain area that you have this lot is about 300 by 300 uh Nick told me and so that will give us plenty of room for access points and erress and the plan is to have the parking for the carnival in the same area of that that parking area uh of the parking lot that the carnival is going to be in you that can provide the sufficient parking for this use yeah okay and then I'm sorry okay you want to continue go ahead well the next question I was going to ask was for for John um you you have created a relationship with the property owner here you have an agreement in place to utilize this property yes and in addition to that if if necessary if on our self-contained lot area there isn't sufficient parking you have permission for overflow parking in the adjacent area on the adjacent lot if necessary okay that was what I wanted to get to okay so uh Laboratories first aid stations how does that work yes so we've secured with let me just go to my notes Here I believe you have all these these notes that were emailed to you today but as far as the laboratory goes let me just this was emailed to the board late this afternoon this package so yeah I figur it' be easier if they just spoke about it right so we do have temporary laboratory units uh including handicapped accessible units that will be coming to the property um we will be maintaining you know one of the things that uh Nick basically told me is is to to stress to you is we we maintain something that's very clean very sanitary all right and up the standards of everybody that is requested our you know are our respons here um but um we do have plans I do not have the uh the vendor that we're dealing with for the uh for the laboratory but uh we we are having a temporary laboratory but they're like PTO John type kind of yeah and they're not they're serviced whenever they need to be serviced if they are full during the activities correct right yep they're service usually every day if not every other day for sure and then the first aid station is there one there or I believe there is a first aid station with us we have uh I don't David's David's first aid certified I don't know if we have it's usually what is required from the play that we play if we have paramedics on site things like that I can't we will have police officers on site um a good portion of our staff our retired police officers as well for first aid um as far as if we are having a first aid Squad was that your question first aid unit no just someone trips falls scrapes their knee I mean you know a little murom you know Band-Aid right I mean we I haven't heard murom in years that was the red stuff right the red stuff that my father used to paint flowers my uh Charlie you said we we have a lot of questions here because we're going to get this over to council right so we want to make sure we vet this properly for C so goad we're not acting on this in like a resolution or anything like that we're just making recommendations to the governing body so um you know I had a I don't issue usually letters this length for a temporary use permit but the plan we got was just a box on a parking lot with not a whole lot going on from uh like a site circulation purpose so as far as the ENT Rance so there's a main kind of circulation driveway coming off of Lan's Mill Road when you say the gate for the carnival where where is the g anticipated gate location is it going to be like coming from the Escape movie theater side is it going to be I don't know the exact land layout on this one myself what usually could you go back to where that little blue box was right would help me kind of describe it if to the left to the right my right that's the movie theater so the the front say by the letter L that would be the entrance to the carnival itself and then they have q lines metal detectors we set up and then the people would walk in and have one way in one way out okay yeah so you know the the reason I asked that question is like if the entrance is like directly abing that main throwaway into the shop Center you know The BJs is going to be active the LA Fitness is going to be active having a further away the jump zone is there too yeah yeah the climb Zone still there so having it further away from that main circulation driveway you know prevents maybe the possibility of like vehicles queuing or like a line forming you know impacting circulation um it's all going to be within the parking Baye right there's not going to be any infrastructure or Gates like blocking off any of the stripes fire circulation Lanes or anything like that correct so and I know the Fire official issues a memo regarding like the need for like a um like a carnival permit for the state is that something that's in the process of being obtained or submitted for I'd say we have it because we're playing carnivals in New Jersey now okay um as far as the operation you know with the Escape movie theater there was some history with uh noise complaints and concerns regarding neighboring Property Owners because there's residential behind everything like that our noise ordinance at 10 p.m. there's a change in the decb is live music and stuff will cut off music will end at 10 okay uh and then you know there's an grace period for an hour when like things are winding down and people are kind of like leaving the site right time out live music there there's going to be live music no no not the rides oh ride music okay I mean there there may be like a PA announcer or something like that for whatever purposes yeah um what else did I have there you said 24hour security and everything like that so when you say parking on our lot you're talking about the the bank of parking immediately adjacent to the Escape movie theater is there any of like where the BJ's in the climb Zone like you're there's not going to be a ton of parking left in front of escap exactly yeah yeah there's so can you like how many people do you usually get for these kind of events during the weekday 6800 you're not going to have parking what are the days and time dates and times for this I mean listen we do shop I mean Shop with a cop or uh not shop with a cop how National Night Out was there the place was packed you couldn't park anywhere and there wasn't 800 people showing up to that and that was one night and it was a disaster not a disaster but that's that's a lot of cars so I mean that's why they're here and that's why we're without a lot of parking and that's why we're asking all these questions you know the Escape move theater right you know they're going to be using certain amount of that for the actual Carnival it looks like the majority of the parking there grounds and and then you know the site has been built out for a while and some of the striping is a little faded so you know LA Fitness across the way and I take it all of the BJ's parking lot is going to be yeah what about the area that's but they have that that F off area that's they haven't started constru yet that still has all kind of Park I don't know yeah but I don't even think that's that big I mean National Night Out it was an hour line to get in yeah and a three-hour line to get out of traffic it was bad yeah it was listen I'm all for law enforcement and all that but I don't know if there's enough space there but we do have agreements with the property owner that we can overflow into the other Lots it's we're not solely ryant on the lot that's in front of Escape we have permission to have overflow parking into those lots even the lot that's fenced off I don't know about the lot that's fenced off I don't know what that is and we also are what are the hours of what are the hours of operation cuz I'll assume this is going to be operating while LA Fitness is and BJs is as well during weekdays normally 5 to 10 weekends 1 to 11 PJ's CL at 1 to 11 solution might be to get permission from the Lowe's across the street and then hire policemen to help people across the street that's a bad well even even crossing over from La shut it sounds to me like coming from this board maybe one of your recommendations as a council is to make sure that we properly demonstrate that we have sufficient parking in place so maybe absolutely yeah I mean maybe it's not something that we solv this evening but it's something that you say hey pay attention to this then make sure we have a plan when we going to to council's point right so uh the ordinance allows them to seek a temporary use permit for up to a maximum of two years and then they can come back for an extension of up to an initial two years know certainly within a recommendation to say to the board uh or governing body maybe you're only issue a temporary use permit for the first year and then you re-evaluate if there's concerns and then you know come back again for that second year with maybe some more clearly as like a quote unquote site plan even though it's a temporary use permit to kind of address issues that arise uh and just to give context right so this isn't a yearr round use 365 days a year or anything like that it is a condensed period from June 27th to July 7th so you know you're talking about what 10 12 days that it's in operation in weekdays you know 5: to 1100 p.m. so it's not all working hours of the day on the weekdays and things like that um but certainly recommendation that the government body ask for additional details regarding how parking is going to be managed you know I know there's a commitment that they've been working with the police on how police president's going to go and stuff like that maybe you know they need additional help with like traffic direction in the shopping plaza and circulation and you know if people are going to be parking you know over by the starucks bucks or something like that or by the Texas Roadhouse and walking through the site you know maybe there needs to be you know some additional help with traffic direction you know it's all recommendations you can make and ultimately it's up to the governing body to decide on you know what they stipulate in their approval with the permit that lower half of the LA Fitness lot that typically is unless it's BJs and they're having like a massive sale um that lower half of that lot is not full ever so maybe that's a Poss ibility for overflow they said they have perent for that too got a crusted access I know but but at the certain times that they're doing it like the 5 to 10 it's usually by then it's starting to quiet down my concern would be on the weekend so the concern is if the popularity grows on event like this whether or not we'll be overcrowded yeah with a uh with a flesh of cars and Personnel coming onto the site and nowhere to go right yeah so that's what we have to present you know you'll I like your idea Sirah of making sure that you have an A and B plan you know should that happen uh you can absorb that kind of activity certainly yeah and and I I think part of the materials is also that they will have yeah I mean I've always gone to the mammoth county fairs and there's always kids out there with the flashlights helping Direct traffic and it it just makes it work um even when you go to the pumpkin patches for that short time of the year there's always people out there helping you so I think that's part of it it's staff make sure we have an overflow area those are the recommendations that I'm that I'm hearing and we we we do we do address the parking as far as helping you know assist with the parking and we're also going to have a designated drop off area to alleviate traffic if uh people drop off people for the carnival itself to dropping off teenagers or whatever that that that's good and then and then if it turns out to be yeah that enormous then maybe a shuttle and then and a place where you run people back and forth from right whether or not that is or regroup for the next time I mean like Charlie said we could recommend one year and re-evaluate if it's a problem we can maybe recommend the use of soldier Memorial or something else we have we have a good working relationship with the police department and if there does become a parking issue and we have to adapt at that point in time we will when they do H day it's quite a distance away from the how parking lot which is an all Road that's a huge parking lot that's basically unused and they run school buses that go from H day back to the parking ride it's probably the same distance from that parking ride to where your site's going to be it would it would definitely alleviate the parking problem and and keep a lot of the cars away from that site too yeah but honestly you think the majority of people are going to try that first I mean if it's me with three kids you're going the first place I'm going to park is at the movie theater then we might be going home if there's no parking because I'm not put my three kids you can't park there and you're coming from somewhere else and you're a little ticked off and a sign says go to the hell parking ride I might be going home with three screaming kids well that could be that could be year two we're going to be at at lead Fest though if it's happening we'll be there early to park I think one of the letters that was provided said there's going to be four police officers on site four yes four and then certain points two inside one at the gate and the other one is perimeter was that the if I understood it correctly two patrolling one at the open gate and one outside the gate okay and it also says on here a certified EMS individual will be stationed on the grounds during all event hours great I would if you're using overflow parking I would think you have need for additional officers at that point because if they're Crossing that access road I'm just leery of that Charlie yeah I mean to me it's uh the circulation in the parking and how that's managed is going to be like a key component of this like uh I know when we had the office Zs Mills comeing here to convert some of the retail space pad sites on here to office bace there was concern about like with the climb Zone and the Starbucks and like kids walking through and how coming off a Lanes Mill Road that main circulation during you know right after work people are in a rush to get to The BJs to do their shopping before the weekend or to get gas and things like that so certainly the further that like drop off areas and like maybe cutting off some of the like access to the parking where you have to get into the site to then get into the parking might eliminate a lot of this crisscross and during those those times that's why that's why we widened the turnaround at a Stell Lane yeah people still cut through uh that shopping center all the time too so just be mindful of that when we recommend it to council if we recommend it to council 5 6 o00 people don't want to sit that one U-turn coming from Lan's Mill they cut right through to get out you know instead of busting around so they'll go through past LA Fitness make a left and go back up to the traffic play our online I see it every day we their own yeah they make their own just letting you know that there's it's a busy area there may be some challenges well that's that's understandable like I said is we know we have a good working relationship with the police department so whatever the recommendations are and you know I'm retired police officer so I'm key word retired so um you know we'll listen to what the uh the chief and the traffic units have to say get yeah so Charlie anything else that we uh I mean really I think um maybe if a recommendation to the governing body might be let's do a one-year temporary use permit with a possibility of the second year maybe they come back with something a little bit more formalized as far as like a circulation to address if there are any issues maybe this perfect world this operates and there's no issues and it's fine and it's good and they come back and they at the second year but if there are any issues it kind of gives the town and the board to maybe make some additional recommendations uh you know for the next year comfortable with that Mr Claus yeah we're comfortable with that I mean I have a funny feeling this is going to be very very popular let's hope agreed and you know you just need to be prepared and so I think at the recommendation you know one year and then we assess and see and then you come and you you modify as you experience and then you come back and then we do it two year after that seems completely fair and the one thing I'm comfortable with is you're handing it over to people that are in charge of traffic for a living so uh I think we I think we're in good hands all right well go ahead uh Mr rco and I have four kids and um the climbs on you know during the weekend is only people from laywood during the the the two months of the games that you know that you want to do I bet you it's going to be all laywood all how all Jackson yes but especially laywood that's the point to see where they're going to park okay especially the weekends that's it okay yeah I mean par the the Friday you know uh with uh a certain portion of the Lakewood and how community and Jackson everything like that you know before Sundown there's a certain rush to get your business done before the end of the week so uh to get your last minute shopping at The BJs you could be sometimes in a particular rush you know in that 5 to to 8:00 P.M before Sundown on a Friday critical period so just things you're going to have to monitor and work with Police Department to kind of tackle those hurdles as you as you go along certainly okay so do we have enough to recommend for Council I think so okay we um somebody mentioned something about EMTs how many how many EMTs letter that I got today just said n EMT an EMS is going to be on site wait well no I think she said no it said I got to find it again I think you're going to need more than my my point is you're going to need more than one em and and how do they Traverse through the crowd do they have a quick response vehicle like a like a gator type vehicle that they can get to get to you know sometimes moving around a big ambulance in in a tight area isn't feasible so you have to have like quick response type Vehicles like uh well Gator is coming to me m my mind we have a golf cart you have bring with us yeah that won't they ain't going to cut it an EMS gator has a backboard on has attached backboard it's set up to you know handle a medical situation and I'm going to assume that you'll have like a schematic of like how many rides um places of where stands will be all that kind of stuff as well that would have been great to see tonight if we could have and food they having food yes yes yes yes and we'll comply with all of the health department regulations better be good sausage and peppers if it's there so that that would be my recommendation I mean you would have to have more than one EMT and um some kind of quick response you speak to that usually and it's and I've done this it's I just came from Alabama and they were on site because they were required from the county so I didn't know what I was getting into here because I don't work with how before work so that can be easily rectified we get with lead Nick and we basically hire them to be on site just like we do with the police so definitely um something that can be easily rectified with hiring them and then to come back to you with what we call a lot layout where the rides will be placed the bathrooms that emergency exits could be the food stands for some you gentlemen uh everything would be and that's pretty we could bring that when we uh the next time or well yeah we presented to council and and certainly working with interrup for a minute there's no presenting to council here's what happens if the board makes a recommendation tonight tomorrow I type up a resolution that goes to the clerk and all they do is memorialize it okay so I need specific recommendations and if you have some kind of that changes things I need it to attach to that resolution so we know exactly what's going on that's why it would have been really great if that was all together because it would make it a lot easier for us to be able to give you some of that advice what can may ask what do you have currently I I currently have all the information that you guys got in your package and that's it so we don't have much we have to give you recommendations well if in other words like if you read this and I just read to you a certified EMS individual will be stationed on the grounds during all event hours if you want three people there I have to know that because I have to put that in the resolution because that's what we're going to have to go by and say you're not I say fours and two quick response vehicles and and a bus an ambulance yeah you get like the rescue squad station there like a man ambulance I'm sorry like a man ambulance there like I I believe all the high school football games the how CH rescue squad or something of that nature is there with a staffed ambulance in case something happens that's usually you know we can we can we can work with the do you have paid EMS or do you have volunteer there paid and volunteer in town we're blessed to have the best of both worlds so we can work with with EMS and we can get a bus there on site which for me we have an ambulance with a crew of two yeah that works for me they would be on site at all times like with the fire the fireworks thing we schema and when when could I get that to you I could I don't have it with me now I the next council meeting is not till June 11th so I just really need it before then but I don't know if it would be helpful like we have June hold on a minute because now I got too many papers on my yeah me I he June 27 Charlie yeah Mr chair based on some of the board members' experiences you know this might not be the right place for us I mean you you can ask for whatever additional information you see fit to kind of make you feel a little bit more warm and fuzzy about this um you know I don't think from what I'm hearing I don't think anyone is really opposed to like what they're doing and how it's supporting and who they're supporting absolutely we're concerned of creating you know a an event that cannot be absorbed by the local site what about a memorial I think there's still Sports going on that's part of the problem Oakland Park there's to be a option provide you guys less I mean it seems like need a lot of information recomend to coun I agree I think we needed to see kind of what the layout was we need to see the flow you need to see there's like we have we have B we have other entities that come with that information and it makes it so much easier for us to see exactly what everything is and we can have a better idea of what that's gonna all come become um and we don't have that that's I think that's the biggest concern I mean because listen like we you know it's like a trunker treat the first year that then they moved it then they moved it now it's a soldier it's because well all right but but that's my point that's our point we're trying to avoid that M Mr chairman what about getting more information and then processing or considering it June 10th meeting can we do that when is the dat do they have enough time then it's going to be tight because the next council meeting is the 11th yeah but I might be able to alert the clerk that I'm going to have a resolution one way or the other that morning and it's just got to be done I can hold it for their next meeting because if it gets cancelled then they're out of luck correct so and that's why we pushed for them to be here tonight well I'm glad because you know we think this is great but we also think that this the lot might be undersized for the type of event that and that's what I meant by like if there's a condition that they need overflow parking somewhere I should really be able to put that in there that overflow parking will be at such and such and I don't have that information so is is 300 by 300 a normal size for you guys or you do bigger you have bigger Lots we do the biggest state fairs in the country and what would that be the Georgia National Fair is 600 acres yeah okay something a little I mean it's 300 by 300 kind of small is no sir it's for a springtime Carnival of this type is perfect where would you normally hold an event like this like does this shopping center fit what you usually do at this time of year yes yeah we're we're at the pamis mall right now with 20 rides that would be similar to the I feel like the P Smalls parking lot is significantly bigger than this have you have you been there have you been to this no sir I feel like you should probably it's right over here you should probably check it out I I will once um the getting you the paper that would I could have that here in 30 minutes with because with the the what we call a lot layout with based on 300 by3 00 we know what we would be bringing here so I is there a way to zoom in on this so we could maybe show them a little better the layout of that parking lot and the available space how many 18 to 20 rides because that would be important to put in and how many game booths like uh 16 to 20 and then eight food stands is that's normal for what we we call a unit what's your largest ride that's a lot of rides um the largest ride that would be coming here would be a Himalaya type ride so you guys would be set up in there correct this enti would eliminate the majority of that parking all right can you turn around there you go Mr clauser yes this would eliminate the majority of that parking right so now you're left with LA Fitness which is open and operating I believe until 10: which would be the same hours you have customers in and out and then you have the BJ's parking which is going to be in use until I believe 8 or nine it's tight and you guys said between five and 800 people daily rough idea on a car count maybe just and I'm not trying to be difficult I think what you're doing is awesome and I want to be there with my kids but I don't want to see you guys constrained by this a and have a problem for the next time when you want to do it and people are mad or up in arms like people have mentioned there have been complaints just from the movie theat Operation let alone a carnival there and all the noise associated with it Mr clauser yes the gentleman mentions that it's a springtime but June 26th to July 10th kids are out of school summer kids are out of school it's it's the it's the summer for us sure like so I'm listening uh I'm listening and I'm thinking I mean it might make sense to go I since you haven't been there yet I would I would really take the ride over there and just walk it during a busy time of the day over there or around the time you're thinking go there at 5:00 you'll you'll see what we're talking about we're just trying to be helpful cuz I think it's an awesome event I I really do it's just that we don't have a parking garage we don't have five stories or four stories where we can absorb and there's not any Open Fields there the other thing you got to worry about is right behind there is I believe it's Castle Court you don't want people parking on the street in front of everybody's house and walking up now then you have the school right behind that what if people are parking in there I think you're going to run out of parking I think you I think what you're doing is such a great cause you're going to have a the residents of Howell who are desperate for things to do on weekends with their kids show up in droves and then all of the people supporting what you're doing go down further on that road that that fence that fence therea I was talking about I it's up to the right going to the gas station there yeah right there that's another pad site that a building was supposed to be built yeah that was a they came before the board has switched that retail to office base so it's base paav but I don't believe there's no mean there's no striping or anything like that right now they store their snow snow removals there it's Fen too they have to take down I mean just remember this isn't like an open shopping open parking thing like there's other cars accessing the businesses in there and there's just nowhere open to park other than there Mr Rosco you got something yeah the 60 or 70% of the parking load of LA Fitness is empty is empty you just walk like 25 steps and you are there ask permission to the LA F if Green Leaf if Green Leaf is saying yes I think you're good which do have that permission but I know like but n National Night Out National Night Out it is not empty and they don't have nearly that many people in there and it it's dangerous in there when it's that crowded I listen I think it's great I want to go wherever it is if you guys could make it safe but I don't know if we have the ability to to make the recommendations for Council to vote on it right now if if if I may so I said I was retired um I'm a retired police chief from from Mars County I did 26 years the last 12 as my as a chief of police and we have Carnival is in in our town Kenan in similar size lot which was actually the high school parking lot that we had our our carnivals and we had the same concerns as far as parking we addressed those parking issues from the law enforcement traffic part of this and what we did was um we never had to bust anybody in for the for the carnival but what we did is we had adjacent parking areas where we had officers like you were concerned and I think by seeing this where you concerned about the people walking across that one section which looks like it's an exit part there all right getting an officer there to be able to cross the people lit up so that it's nice and safe almost yeah but where would the additional par going to park in that low yeah but also if you think about like for how day they're Crossing Ma they're Crossing 547 yeah but it's shut down there well shut down in Victory Road or not Victory um Maxum road yeah yeah but my point is is that prior to that it's still semiopen so you know so you know they just got to figure it out yeah but I think it's on us to figure out Am I Wrong ien what we say is what gets presented so it's on us we more on us right now to iron it out well for sure coord my point was is that when there was was when there was an issue we adapted to it and not knowing I don't know the area there's no open space there to park it's all shopping centers but if it's if it's the traffic pattern and the parking area you know we like I said is we would abide by what whatever the police department request for that night or for that day to make sure that we keep everybody safe because safety is you know that's our business yeah I get it so whatever we need to do to make that right we would we would make that right there's just there's no Open Fields or open lots to put any cars there it's all businesses yeah I don't think we have enough to do this Charlie and we don't think we have enough to do this so you know I think you heard Eileen say we have another meeting before the end of June and then the governing body of the council has another meeting if you feel like you might want to see some additional information from the applicant just to kind of make you feel a little bit better from a circulation perspective and parking I got to imagine if if um the track you know I think they should be discussing this with the tra safety officers and we have an amazing Police Department they're well versed in all this if they come in and they say this is perfect it's good to go I believe them yes but we got nothing yeah we unfortunately certainly a typical layout of internal to the uh Carnival space I think presenting that to the board just so they can see how circulation is where the access point is like getting it away from that main driveway through so people are having to come into the site and there's not a queue or people you know on pedestrian Crossing all over the place I think would improve things um just question is there any is there any like a like a beer tent or anything or any liquor sales or anything none of that's proposed with this it's a drug anti drug thing yeah yeah list I've been to I've I've been to PBA events where there's uh you know those kind of tents you know if you go to ever going to the um Manasquan Fireman's Fair you know they have a tent like that there you know and it's all for good cause and everything like that so John what are you thinking John you're sitting there and you're saying hey I mean Mr Pape represents Lowe's um additional officers I mean that could also count for some overflow if you have I mean there's uh there's a crosswalk there there's a sidewalk there as well uh so you wouldn't have people just kind of walking through uh no man's land um maybe he could put in a call on behalf of your clients I think the board is is their concern is Justified in the sense that you know uh when it gets to be overwhelming you can't control everything uh no disrespect to the uh former Chief uh you know how you know how things get with these car people just run all over the place and we're just trying to minimize any of that um you know some kind of plan just so that they can see what's actually going on is always beneficial uh you're asking uh this group to to make a decision uh blindly without anything you know just to say yeah it's going to work out it's pretty difficult to to to get behind something like that so uh you know just something uh you know you even have Walmart even though that's a bit of a stretch uh right across route n even though I wouldn't want to see anybody Crossing route n Lo probably as far as uh I would suggest uh maybe making some kind of uh concession to see they have a pretty large lot as well uh and just a question and I know kind of contradicts what you're trying to do here is there any plan uh to be able to turn people away at some point if it gets to critical you asking for trouble listen I mean there's no space there's no space not Brick's done it at Brick day they've done it they've had a sign there's only certain amount of entry points into that CLA any which way so if you if you put somebody in there uh at each uh at each entrance and exit and say Hey listen there's no space you got you got to keep moving let's see what you're saying with cars I mean not pedestrian traffic obviously but I'm saying with cars you just you got to keep it going at some point full you're right what's your opinion on the space John I mean you're in the area every day you know you know this town are we looking into this too much or no say I mean and once again I'm guessing it was a guesstimate 600 I don't know the number could be more the number could be less uh if you count the spaces you don't have 600 cars especially taking away uh that area for for ride so I think the concern is Justified given how busy the other businesses are in that Plaza uh especially at peak times at 5:00 or on the weekend um and the time of year John at time of year absolutely and as uh Mr Stanton stated uh you know it's going to be the only game in town and everybody's going to be looking to do something uh so you're you're definitely going to attract it's going to be a well uh welled benefit uh but you want safety first so I I think the concerns of the board are Justified and the township is very Pro police and pro law enforcement they are going to back you they're going to come out there's no question we just need to have a plan yeah y That's exactly I don't think you're hearing any opposition to the operational and the use and what it's serving I think it's more so to make sure that everyone is set up to succeed with this the township you know lead um the visitors cuz you know more traffic more cars more Vehicles more pedestrians just creates more potential for you know things to go wrong and I think we're just trying to make sure that everyone's going in the right direction to toward success on this Mr clausa so we need you to help us understood so help you couple of things to help me do that um number one is it conceivable that we could come back here on the 10th and give you some more information for us it is is it for you though well that's now the second thing I'm going to ask is could I have about five minutes so I can go do some Logistics with my guys and uh and see what I can do yeah absolutely ien can we take five sure okay okay board's taking board's going to take a five minute recess back at 20 okay we're back sir okay great thank you um so just carry us please to the 10th all right in in the interim um we will provide certainly a sketch of the parking lot and I made some initial recommendations um in situations like this where I know I'm going home I don't try and solve problems then I think it's better when you think about it a little bit but things that crossed my mind so that you know that I'm thinking of doing is not only get when I think when you get a sketch will have a better handle on what parking's left over and then we can do some counts we get some ideas of how many spaces are actually out there so not talking in the abstract um I talked to John about communicating with the police department now getting a sense from them of what they think it would be like how it would work how we could work with them so we could bring that information back with any luck maybe we can get an officer to come back with us um and kind of give you some of that Assurance maybe that you were looking for um so sketch um do some counts either internally or maybe get a traffic gue so that they can quantify it a little bit better you're used to hearing that kind of testimony you understand it um get a sense of how the parking lots are working um D you know during the day during different times of the day almost like doing traffic counts um and then come back here and make a better explanation to you so that you're more armed to make a recommendation to council and um the way that I look at it uh what I just advise my client if you said yes tonight it wasn't happening until the 11th any anyway so we might as well go and use that time to make sure we give you uh some better information I'm sorry to put you up to to uh you know having to have a resolution ready um but hopefully by then there'll be a lot more information uh that we can start getting that worked in there so so that's my plan we just we just had a temporary use permit for fireworks sales which coincidentally is going to happen the same time but not at that location God I hope not and when they give it to us they give us like here's where the tent's going to be and they tell us what's in the tent so you're sketch should really show all your rides where your game boots are going to be so that like they have an idea then when I send this to them that this is where everything's going to work and fit and stuff like that and I think what's even more important on that sketch is to show you the circulation pattern inside uh so you can see how we're we're able to get around and move around so and Mr chair so and I don't know um you know the likelihood of a representative from the police department coming to the next meeting but maybe in the interim before the next meeting we could coordinate like a meeting with the someone from the traffic safety unit you know someone from the town's Engineers office I could certainly be there if the board um and the applicant request it just a kind of certainly a blessing from the traffic safety unit on like we've reviewed this and we think that this is going to work or at least we have a game plan for how it's going to work might ease you know your concerns when we come back here on the 10th to know that it's been thought and vetted and everything like that just a suggestion that's a good one a copy of the carnival permit might help as well cuz I know the fire chief was looking for that they will have that okay everything you mentioned they are and just to clarify guys I think you're doing an awesome thing I don't want you to think I'm sitting here specifically trying to tell you this is not a great thing just we don't have much here and if it's on us we got to do better on our end and then and I ha to say if but traffic safety gets notified every application including this one and I didn't get any comments okay um all came together very quickly so so so Soldier Memorial um I think that would be a great fit July 2nd so the uh that might be the how PD will probably be pretty busy on on that day yeah you know over at SoJO Memorial so yeah um if you can give us more information that we can be able to to put it on on paper and move it forward that would be great um you know so we're concerned just a little bit only because of the success you know and uh I I just don't want to disastrous after Action Report you know saying what we didn't do and how do we push this out there and it becomes a colossal you know nightmare for us so if we do our due d that's what we need to do got it understood thank you guys all right I I I I think we we noticed for this right no you didn't we didn't notice this was not required okay all right so we don't need an announcement right Andy okay no announcement all right no announcement thank you very much everyone appreciate the input we'll do better thank you have a great night guys thank you thank you all right just let eile know okay all right Eileen when's the next meeting June 10th okay June 10th it is some I I'll send you a notice I will not be here I won't either I was going to try not to be here too I will be in England I know Mr Hughes won't be here because I already had that yeah uh Gateway industrial is a use variance and they were carried to that night and Mr P was requesting the whole meeting and he was promised it you know what be I need a full board I'll still be in England I'll be in I'll be in Atlantic City so who's get them before they so who's who's not going to be here on the 10th about half the board me Glen and apparently I I'll I'll drive up for it and is what did Jose say yes I was Katie oh okay I'll be here so if it's just the two we if we have everybody else committed then we have seven want to and if we can get school back up to them that is that's because they have to get a lease agreement from that's true that's true and they're running out of time yeah short Noti well that plan for next year yeah okay so June 10th is the next meeting it's going to be U an all nighter just one application in this one okay but the other one is probably going to take all night yeah so we pull these guys first and hopefully it'll all right so uh can I have a motion to adjourn we got a first first and a second all in favor all all right okay we're adjourned thank you good night guys good night night